Instant reaction: Seahawks win, upset the Lions

We’re two weeks into the season and I have no idea what to think of this team.

Last week they had a half of offensive production that equated to three meaningful yards. Today, they go into a red-hot environment against an opponent fresh from a win against Patrick Mahomes in his own back-yard and they put on a masterful offensive performance — schemed brilliantly — to deliver a win.

They also showed tremendous character — starting the second half forcing a key turnover (and turning it into a touchdown). They dealt with the setback of coughing up a late 10-point lead with a dominant offensive drive to clinch the game. They went toe-to-toe against a team that many were tipping to be a serious NFC contender.

Equally, the defense continues to show a lot of the same problems. The pass-rush is a non-event for the most part and they can’t defend much at all over the middle. The two starting safeties are playing concerning football and Bobby Wagner doesn’t look like he did a year ago.

You do have to note, though, that the Tre Brown pick-six was a vital play in the game — as was the turnover to start the third quarter. Devon Witherspoon also forced a turnover-on-downs on debut. A few key plays were enough to help seal a great win — which has been an issue at times over the years.

I’m sure many will say the mixed start is merely par for the course with early-season football. I think that’s a bit reductive. I think we’re seeing a team that is a bit ‘Jekyll and Hyde’. The key to maxing out the season is going to be their ability to amplify the good and improve the bad.

If the Seahawks can be consistent with their passing game there’s no reason why this can’t end up being an offensive juggernaut. They’re clearly still working out how to best utilise Jaxson Smith-Njigba and Zach Charbonnet yet they already have enough talent to get results as those ideas develops. Getting a Sean McVay level of consistency from McVay disciple Shane Waldron feels critical to the season.

On the other hand, the defense is going through a dance we’ve done too often. This was another +400 yard game for an opponent early in the season and another +30 point day. The Seahawks remain too easy to play against on defense and they’re relying on opponent errors and flash moments. They are not formidable, physical or challenging as a pass-rush unit. I fear that this is going to be another year where they muddle along — never really sorting out the problems well enough to be the kind of rounded contender they hope to be.

This was an excellent win though. Big praise goes to the peerless Tyler Lockett — a picture of consistency and brilliance throughout his career. Two more key touchdowns today including a spectacularly difficult first. Lockett is a Seahawks’ great and deserves a Championship ring as much as any player I can think of for a career that has been selfless and spectacular.

The two offensive tackles were well supported by a good game-plan and when Stone Forsythe and Jake Curhan were challenged, they were up to the task. They deserve a ton of praise.

Geno Smith had one of the worst sacks you’ll ever see and it could’ve cost Seattle the game. Coming back to lead that clinching overtime drive was a great way to answer.

There’s a winnable game next week against Carolina. The Seahawks have to start winning games at home more regularly. This is an ideal opportunity to build on today against a rookie QB and a team who will travel on a short week.

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  1. Charles

    I cannot believe it. Suspect offense and defense. Not expecting a whole lot for this season…. A w is a w!

  2. Tony

    Ugly at times. Def sucks. But always enjoy a win. Definitely some good things today. Far from a great team. Going to be a rollercoaster all year.

    • Peter

      Yep. Weird mix of awesome big plays and some seriously sloppy play. A win is win.

  3. Rushless pass

    Hats off to Forsyth and Curhan

    • Trevor

      Absolutely they really stepped up and the game plan protected them pretty well also.

    • STTBM

      They hung in there. I’d buy them a pitcher of beer each …

    • Hawkster

      Ditto. Appreciate Stone getting a game in with Hutchinson, he’s no Bosa, but a good developmental outing.

  4. Seattle Person

    Beside that really stupid loss of 17 yards by Geno — this was probably his best game as a Seahawk. 2 OTs down and Geno had really good pocket awareness today.

    • JimQ

      After Geno’s “brain fart” (just throw the damn ball away) loss, I was pretty sure they had lost the game, then…… suddenly in OT it’s a win.

  5. sten

    Geno’s pocket presence is Aaron Rodgers elite level, that and the turnover battle won us this one. Surprised we’re the type of team happy to dink and dunk but it seems like the only way we can win a time of possession battle

    • STTBM

      The dink and dunk was to help out our tackles. They HAD to do that. With time, perhaps they can take more shots downfield.

  6. Ben

    Geno played really well. Defense was sketchy, but they made some plays. It was fun to see Witherspoon’s intensity even if he made some mistakes. We look middle of the pack overall.
    Hoping to see more d-line pressure as the young guys get more experience.

    • Seattle Person

      I honestly thought the Lions and Seahawks today were copies of each other.

      • Malc from PO

        Great point. When I watched Detroit at KC I thought they rode their luck pretty hard. They are plucky but can’t get out of their own way at times. One week you win with a puck 6, the next week, you lose with one. It wouldn’t surprise me if we get the same situation as last year where we get the last wild card on the head to head tie breaker with the Lions. Very comparable teams.

    • Tony

      Really liked devons play. Made some mistakes and lions targeted him a few times. But rookie cb, 1st game with no preseason. A lot of good stuff to be excited about with him.

  7. clbradley17

    Tre Brown had a hat trick – a pick six, sack & forced a fumble. Still made another QB look like a pro bowler except for his mistake. Goff had well over 300 yards. 3 TDs on 80 %. Great win in the end, but we wouldn’t have needed OT if not for another poor game by Myers.

    Meantime Woods is plugging the middle for the Jets, and Neal looks great for the Bucs at almost league minimum. Keeping those 2 players could’ve made us a little better, along with investing Love’s $ in another DT. Still seems like they have no clue on D about their scheme or roles, gaps etc.. This is going to be a Long season if we have to depend on other teams also playing poor D to have a chance.

    • Gary

      “Another” poor game by Myers? The guy missed three field goals last SEASON.

      • clbradley17

        He’s 3 of 6 this year. He missed one last week and was 1 of 3 this week. For the last several years, he’s great in even years and sub-par in odd years. And he just signed a big contract. 50% doesn’t cut it.

      • CHaquesFan

        Week 1 was pretty poor with a missed Fg and a blocked one

        • Peter

          I’ll say it. I’m a little worried about Myers. I know the odd year even year stuff. But in his bad odd years here he’s missed five and six attempts. To be at three misses two games into the season, yikes.

  8. Whit21

    I thought Geno was gonna have an all time best scramble for no yards.. then that turned into the biggest bone headed play ever. Ateast he got the 2 min warning.. i idea why he didnt try to throw..

    A couple calls looked iffy.. the OPI on parkison was close.. need to see the replay but looked close to the 5 yards..

    Im not sure how much I like the offensive scheme.. its looks stubbornly old and near obsolete compaired to what newer offenses are..

  9. Ben

    Yeah, there was a lot of points, but it felt like the grind it out type of game that Pete likes. I still have serious doubts about our ability to match up with offensive minded teams.

    • Ben

      Failed reply…meant to reply to Seattle Person.

  10. JimQ

    The screen pass should be entirely removed from the play book. They just can’t execute it properly.

    • Tony

      It’s been time to stop trying. Especially on critical downs…Disappointed in Dre Jones again. Yeah he got a sack off Reed’s pressure, but I hate his effort.

      • Elmer

        Not what we thought we got, so far anyway. Denver probably knew it.

        Overall, very pleased that the team, beset by injuries, could be competitive. The Lions are a good opponent.

    • Ben

      You can see the screen failing before the throw comes. Our lineman are chasing blocks.

    • John

      I agree. The screen is useful when the opponent is desperate and selling out for something. Our offense never makes a defense desperate. When the rams stack 10 in the box, we don’t make them pay for it, for example. I think it’s more than terrible execution, it’s that we haven’t set the defense up for it at all.

  11. Tony

    It’s encouraging seeing rams play 9ers tough. But both teams are so well coached. Wonder what either would do with this roster.

    • dand393

      Seattle actually might be the worst team in the NFC West

      • Seattle Person

        The Cardinals are still the Cardinals. But Gannon has this team punching above their weight. They are going to be a problem soon…

  12. CHaquesFan

    Shoutout Shane Waldron – great game plan and limited deep shots to help Forsythe and Curhan look good today

    Also the Rams are looking great against San Fran offensively right now this division looks quite good especially with Arizona up big against New York

  13. Palatypus

    I see the Cardinals are tanking again.

  14. Rob Staton

    Just done a write-up in this piece to go with the stream

    • Ben

      Jekyll and Hyde were the exact words that came to my mind after the game. One good difference I’ve noticed is that Waldron looks to have more control of the offense than past OC’s.

  15. pdway

    watching Niners/Rams….wow is Stafford playing great football

  16. Katal

    Credit to our 2021 draft class, 2/3 of whom had an excellent game.

  17. Scot04

    Cardinals working to throw this game away. Trying to get a QB the Colts way.

    • Scot04

      28-7 lead through mid 3rd a now tied. SMH

      • Peter

        Watching the giants not fold up shop I’m not quite ready to stamp “easy win,” for seattle.

        • Scot04

          With our team you can’t stamp win on any games, let alone “Easy”.

          • Peter

            Agree with this.

  18. James Cr.

    Can someone enlighten me on that intentional grounding call? I can’t ever remember seeing a play like that called before. Big win for Curran and Forsythe. Huge loss for Diggs and Love.

    • LouCityHawk

      It was an absolutely horrible call. One of the worst whether you are talking to America or not.

      “ facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense”

    • Ben

      Refs made the exact same call in the Rams- Niners game.

      • Mr drucker in hooterville

        Whats wrong with “ receiver ran wrong route so incomplete pass”? Refs need to throw their yellow thingies.

        • Ben

          Call the blatant stuff and let them play.

      • Hawkcrazy

        I thought in the Rams game a defender was coming up the middle unblocked. although he was a bit away from the qb still he was unimpeded and would clearly have had a sack if the ball was not thrown.

    • Gary

      Refs also missed a blatant and egregious holding call on the game-winning TD.

      • STTBM

        They aren’t calling arm bars anymore. The shoulder pad tug was iffy. They ignored a much more blatant hold on Witherspoon on the Rams game tying drive as well…a bad days work for the zebras.

      • LouCityHawk

        On who?

        • Gary

          Jake Curhan at right tackle as Geno rolls to his right.

  19. Blitzy the Clown

    Deion is something different

    He is become phenomenon

    • Peter

      I’m getting ready to move to Boulder and see about becoming a walk on.

      • Sean

        I wish I could talk and have The Rock just stand next to me and nod after everything I said. Badass.

        • Peter

          I know. It’s ridiculous!

  20. Robbie

    That was the craziest tip TD in Denver!!!!! wow!

  21. Ben

    Watching Wilson run backwards into sacks and falling apart in the second half, gotta wonder if Payton benches him at some point.
    Rooting for our third rounder from them to be a high one!

    • Peter

      Sure the 3rd quarter was a mess. But 300 plus yards 3 tds, 56 on the ground and one pick……seems like the defense might need the bench more than wilson. Last year all you heard with their awesome defense was all they need is just a little bit more offense…

      • Ben

        Outside of the lucky hail-mary, he didn’t have a touchdown pass in the 2nd half. He has been better this year, but not enough to justify his salary imo. I was honestly surprised they lost to the Commanders.

      • Ben

        You’re right, though. I overstated it.

        • Peter

          No argument from me. Finding the qbs who deserve that top dollar is the hardest thing. Last year to this year its a no for me.

      • Ashish

        Wilson fumble at 21/3 broncos lead started the downfall. Wilson is not the same player mentally. Remember Doug played big role helping Russ overcome such games.

        • Elmer

          And he could hand the ball to Lynch. Not to mention having Chancellor, Sherman, Thomas, etc on the other side.

          • Peter

            Yep. Pete and John did a terrible job wasting his time here. It’s a shame that they missed on so many drafts and had to trot out a half dozen mediocre running backs, two firsts, a second, four thirds to not get one safety worth a crap.

            Then all those fails on the oline….

            If only they could have assembled a top ten or higher defense like the patriots did for every one of Brady’s championship runs.

            Currently they are still doing it. Whether Geno is the man, a game manager, or something else it’s going to be hard to know either way giving up 400 or more yards a game and 30 points every sunday.

  22. John

    One of my friends placed two separate bets with me, the first is that Bo Nix will go in the first round and the other is that Michael Penix Jr will also go in the first round. Is that easy money or should I just pay him now?

    • Rob Staton

      Not sold on Nix that early at all

      Penix Jr has the arm but that scheme + injuries might put a doubt in people’s minds

    • geoff u

      Patriots reminding us why they switched uniforms. Man those are hideous.

      Colts already doing a good job of breaking Anthony Richardson, he’ll retire early like Luck did at this point.

      Have to agree Penix Jr looked flat out awful at times. Great arm, but jeez some of those throws/decisions we’re pretty bad. 3rd round pick who will probably go in the 2nd.

      Thought Witherspoon was good, started opposite Woolen and wasn’t in the slot, which is good. It’s his first game, he gets a lot of slack, and looked great at times. Interesting that Mike Jackson isn’t the starter after all and isn’t even playing. Looks like it’s Tre Brown/Coby Bryant who’ll cover the slot and be backup corner.

      Two games in and we aren’t talking about the run defense. They held their own today. Defense is still pretty bad somehow, no pass rush at all, not great in coverage. Diggs came on late last year, but hasn’t really existed thus far this season. Just another overpaid safety.

      It’s a QB league and this team will live or die with Geno Smith. He can’t get things going and we’ll lose 30-13. He can, and could win 37-31. Great to see him actually take the game over at the end. But man, this defense…again….30 points a game is going to make for a loooooong season.

      • geoff u

        Ugh not meant as a reply…

      • Gary

        Agree with everything except the Pats’ uniforms. It’s their current unis that are hideous- before reading your post I had just texted a buddy saying they should make these sweet uniforms their permanent ones!

  23. Orcas viking

    Why does Quandre Digges consider himself to be a top 10 safety in the NFL…maybe he would be top 10 if he played in the Mountain West conference…

  24. VanHawk

    F%#* it, hyperbole time:

    Tyler Lockett is my favorite Seahawks WR of all time (Yes I’m aware of Steve Largent).

    And getting real close to favorite Seahawk period of all time.

    Truly great in every way.

  25. Denver Hawker

    Love watching the QBs this year, but will be some cool DL options mid/late R1 too. Latest obsession is Johnny Newton at Illinois:

  26. Peter

    Stoked to hear Cam young name a few times. Super glad Witherspoon played and played I think pretty well for the time he missed.

    Geno played very well. Glad to hear the multi TE sets. And the bolstered oline was an appreciated adjustment.

    Hope the next two games Seattle can be more consistent on defense. Living and dying with your opponents mistakes can be tricky.

    I’m with in agreement with the live stream. Seems like there’s a lot of mixing and matching pieces on defense and that feels like it’s going to be costly at some point. The safeties. Lord. We couldn’t pay Neal?

    I’m still pretty unsold on the linebacker play. It’s great Brooks is back but as I listen and haven’t watched does he effect anything? Seems like he’s always where he needs to be but never quite enough.

    Currently I feel like the multi pronged running game is doing no one any favors.

    A wins a win.

    • Big Mike

      Brooks is steady but never makes any spectacular plays.

      • Malc from PO

        I think he leg twisted Montgomery out of the game so that was something.

        • Malc from PO

          Montgomery out for a few weeks, that was an even nastier twist than I first thought. I’m surprised Detroit didn’t get more riled up by it, remember how the Niners got motivated when something similar happened during the playoff game last season?

  27. Gary

    Does anyone know if Mafe played today?

    • Seattle Person

      He was inactive today.

  28. Sean

    Thanks guys for the video. It never occurred to me to kill a mosquito by drowning it in Coke. Funny stuff.

  29. Finallyfan69

    Funny listening to all the posts, but no one addresses the fact that our kicker has missed 3 goals in the last 2 weeks ?

    • Rob Staton

      We addressed it during the live stream

  30. Big Mike

    I’m not gonna put him above Largent. If you ever saw Steve in person you’d know hiw truly special he was. But I’ve been saying for some time Lockett’s headed towards what should be a hall of fame career with another excellent year this year and next year. The problem is he is so quiet and plays in South Alaska he’ll probably never get the consideration he should. I hope I’m wrong.

    • Big Mike

      Reply fail. Meant as a reply to VanHawk above.

      • VanHawk

        Fair enough, I never saw Largent in person.

        Super impressed with his understated nature as a player and person. Great off-field and those toe taps!!

        • Big Mike

          Oh absolutely. Like I said, I believe he’s on a path to HOF worthy.
          That catch he made against the Rams on Sunday night football in Seattle a couple of years ago is one of the best I’ve ever seen in 59 years of watching pro football.

          • Peter

            About the only thing I see stopping Lockett from HOF level is Lockett himself. I feel it’s likely he hangs up his cleats early just stopping him from the overall totals the Hall is looking for.

            Other than that, every year there’s a new flashy player. But Lockett has earned all of his dollars and deserves much more renown that he gets league wide.

            • Palatypus

              He won’t get to 100 TD, but he might get to 10,000 yards.

              • Peter

                Minus Calvin Johnson I couldn’t find any modern WR with less than 100 tds that got in. I will admit I may have missed one. At Lockett’s pace he pencils out to 3.5 seasons beyond this to get to 100 tds.

                • Palatypus

                  Christian McCaffrey is an interesting case. He currently has 4994 rushing yards and 3792 receiving yards, with 40 rushing TDs and 22 receiving TDs.

                  • Peter

                    McCaffrey needs I would think a ring and about two more years like last year.

                    Currently he’s better in a slightly shorter period of time than Brian Westbrook was. But only just so. He’s been injured a ton so if that happened again I would think he’d be outside looking in.

                • Big Mike

                  I don’t think there’s anyway he does 3.5 more seasons Peter. Sounds like he won’t get in unfortunately.

                  • Palatypus

                    He does have two Super Bowl appearances and a ring, though. Surely, he won’t get in on the first ballot.

                    Now, I will stop calling you Shirley.

  31. 509 Chris

    Totally agree the safety play on this team is absolutely unacceptable given the investment in the position. I see nothing from Love that Neal didn’t bring to the table for considerably less. Diggs is way underpreforming too. About time to clean house and roll with draft picks. I’m not joking either.

  32. Big Mike

    I’ve been as critical of Carroll as anyone, but huge kudos should be given to him for whatever it is he does to prepare his teams for 10 AM Pacific time games in the Eastern time zone. He is now 15-1 in those games. That is not an anomaly. That us amazing.
    Anyone remember when Holmgren (who I respect a great deal btw) was HC and the schedule came out, those 10 AM games were counted as losses?

    • Rob Staton

      I remember those days

    • Peter

      Yep. I used to get magazine style season previews and would literally circle losses unless I felt like the opponent was garbage. If middling or better, loss.

      • Big Mike

        And it usually turned out that way. Holmgren’s Seahawks were atrocious at 10 AM

  33. Denver Hawker

    I’ve resolved to throw both games out of my head for now.

    This team still has potential to be a top 10 pick or a playoff team. I’d wager finishing between 8-25 is where they sit. There is very little upside to what was seen today sadly. But todays performance is good enough to win 8-10 games in this league. Good Geno showed up and the defense didn’t give up the big play.

    Season is still wide open but next couple weeks will be telling. Panthers, Giants, and Bengals are all winnable games if the Seahawks can play to their potential.

  34. Erick

    Ref to Geno: I’m talk to america, Sorry….

  35. Romeo A57

    A good win against a solid team on the road today. The Seahawks were +3 in turnovers and probably would have lost if the coin flip went the other way.

    This is a middling team who may snag a Wild Card berth. I do not see a pathway toward being a contender with the current defensive coaching and scheme.

    • Donovan

      This. 100%

  36. Dave Thompson

    Rob, I applaud the shout-out for Lockett, maybe some Seahawks fans will slow down their suggestions to drop him because he’s too old and too expensive.
    On another note, you guys mentioned the importance of the current tight ends for both the run and passing games, given their respective contract status, and this coming draft (stop me if you’ve heard this before is said to be a good one for tight ends and OLinemen) should the Seahawks look at drafting a TE early along with OLinemen.
    Among the bevy of college quarterbacks do you see one that fits a Waldron / McVay preferred variety.

    • Peter

      TE has to be a position to look to. Parkinson and Fant are out of contract. The team loves uncle Will but for the fans that occasionally think about dropping Lockett how about Dissly and his 10 million dollar cap hit….next year?

  37. LouCityHawk

    Just as the sky was not falling last week, all is not well this week. I still hand out mulligans for weeks 1 & 2.

    A handful of things might be true:

    The Seahawks underestimated a good Rams team.

    The Lions underestimated a bad Seahawks.

    The 49ers underestimated a good Rams team, until they didn’t and won a victory on pride.

    Things I believe to be true:

    The Lions beat a championship Chief’s team (missing two vital stars) and placed themselves in the media’s top echelon of the NFC.

    The Seahawks utterly and completely embarrassed themselves by underestimating a bad Rams team (9ers almost followed suit).

    The Seahawks went into a Super Bowl contender’s house, facing a top 5 offense and a surging defense and won-and not a stolen victory, a total victory that should been won in regulation.

    Does this means all of last week’s criticism is instantly invalid? Nope, and any fan running around claiming so really has to dial it back. There were legitimate questions asked, and even a Championship season still begs those questions to be answered.

    Is this a sign we are destined for a season of mediocrity? I don’t know, it doesn’t feel like it. That Rams loss was bad, the team likely can’t turn in another one of those. Going into the bye week 3-1 (my preseason guess) seems very doable – although the biggest test is still the game I feared SEA @ NYG. The stretch from Oct to Early Dec looks even more brutal than before.

    Should we stop thinking about QBotF because Geno’s got this? Hell no. If the inexcusable sack wasn’t enough, rewatch the game, then rewatch the Rams. Then watch Mahomes against the Jaguars. Geno is an adequate QB who can produce well so long as his weapons are available – Geno is not the weapon.

    Who is this defense? If you can answer that question with 100% confidence you are better than me. What I liked about this week was that the defense played with consistent pride and energy, it did not back off or back down. There was a lot of good and a lot of bad, and the Lion’s offense is a really good one. This is a game you watch back the tape on multiple times. General thoughts: Spoon needed those preseason reps – but he will be fine, Hall > Taylor right now (Taylor is a total liability in the run), Cameron Young needs more reps.

    I was not worried about Olu coming in. I was terrified of our starting tackles, I saw what Hutch just did to KC’s tackles, and I was wrong, they did the job well enough.

    Next up is a Panthers team that beat the Seahawks badly last year. You want to take away the Panthers ability to run and force Bryce Young to try and beat you (he sure didn’t look like he could in week 1). A complete blowout and dismantling of their opponent should be the result on Sunday.

    As always I’m looking forward to Rob’s write up of the CFB games this week. There was a lot of interesting play across multiple games.

    • Romeo A57

      Lou, I believe that the only certainty that you can say about the Seahawks is that they are a mediocre team. They may well go 3-1 before the Bye week, but this team is not close to a championshiplevel team. Expect the Seahawks to be non-competative against the 49ers, Eagles and Cowboys.

      • LouCityHawk

        Is mediocre the same as wildly inconsistent?

        I’ve seen evidence for wildly inconsistent so far, none to suggest mediocre.

        The limitation on the Seahawks season will be QB play, and defense (if you’re a nitpicker). The only way to raise the ceiling going forward is to draft, or trade for, a QB who will be an improvement on Geno. I don’t see a realistic trade and the number of draftable QBs who would represent an improvement is rather small.

        3-1 at the bye, split the next 10 games (tall order) puts them at 8-6 going into Nashville on Xmas eve. If I’m right, the Titans, Steelers and Cardinals will all be eliminated by then. 11-6 seems doable, 10-7 seems likely, 9-8 seems reasonable – all records that will likely get playoff berths.

        Is this a team that can make some noise in the playoffs? They just won at Detroit, so the answer is yes. Is this a team that reasonable can compete against the Eagles and 9ers – we don’t have that answer yet, early returns suggest that 1) health (depth complaints noted), 2) Geno, 3) Defense elevating its play (lowest variable) will be the determining factor against those squads. Super Bowl – unlikely – unless Geno has another level we haven’t seen yet.

        • Peter

          1. Defense is a limitation right now.

          2. That post bye schedule til Xmas is hard for me to predict. I like your optimism on splitting games. I can see it. I can also see them getting worked by Dallas, eagles, niners twice, browns (?!), and the fighting commanders has “game Seattle is caught unaware on,” written on it.

          3. Titans. My early prediction is that division goes to the final week to see who gets in.

          • LouCityHawk

            Criticizing the defense is warranted and easy.

            But is it really the limitation? I’d offer not.

            Dallas has the best defense in the NFL to my eye and is deservedly discussed as a Super Bowl contender because of it. The 9ers & Eagles both have defenses that are highly regarded. Beyond those teams? Who are the next best two? The next best 7?

            There was much lust after Wilkins on the Dolphins, they actually have Fangio, they have multiple stars…at they top ten? The Browns and Jets? Maybe, but what did the Jets D do this week?

            I’m not arguing the defense is fine (it is not). I’m arguing that it is comparably not a drag on a Seahawks. That Geno taking that sack was singly more impactful than any play or non-play the defense made in that game.

            Much like the weird obsession with the DK penalty folks had last week, I’m suggesting that the defense is going to be a lesser factor than player health (and especially the impact on the offense) and Geno’s play. I think of all the excuses that were made for Geno last week, and I’m not interested in them.

            • Peter

              Slight counter on the defense not a drag. Weren’t a lot of saying last year that if Seattle could have the 16th ranked rush and pass defense we would have won a few more games?

        • Romeo A57

          I don’t think that this team can elevate into anything other than the last Wild Card. We probably shouldn’t hold the week 1 loss too much against the Seahawks. First game that all the starters get to play meaningful time together. We also shouldn’t celebrate the Detroit win too much as it was lucky. Plus three turnovers and probably would have lost if the coin flip went the other way.

          I am saying mediocre as meaning middling or an 8 or 9 win team. We should agree that Geno is an Average to Good QB. Also the Seahawks Defense is somewhere between bad and pathetic. A Superbowl contender needs to have either an Elite QB or an Elite Defense. Seahawks are not close to either. They probably will get destroyed by the teams that have those like Eagles, Cowboys and 49ers.

          With this current regime, there seems to be no path forward to be a contender.

          • BK26

            I think middling is a bit better. Could they beat a good team? Yes. Could they lose to a pretty bad team? Done it quite a few times in their last 12 games.

            Middle of the road. Worst spot to be in the sport.

          • LouCityHawk

            In terms of record, middle of the pack seems accurish? Floor seems to be 8 wins, ceiling of 11?

            As far as Playoffs(!!!???!?)






            Of that group, Geno is our biggest limitation, can he beat SF/PHL/DAL Ds? If so, those games are winnable (see: Detroit) Our D is the bigger liability against TB, GB, & ATL – teams we should easily dispatch, but the defense might allow them to stay in the games.

    • Peter


      Good thoughts.

      Re: the Carolina game. Should is the word. It’s hard to take our team seriously until they start doing the “shoulds,” consistently.

      A medium high scoring game against our doppelganger and a win is awesome.

      The Rams was a “should,” that never was.

      • LouCityHawk

        The Panthers game is a definite ‘show me’ game.

        I’m willing to accept that the team absolutely underestimated, and was totally flat for the Rams game. It is not excusable, because that win was badly needed as the post-bye games look like a buzz saw.

        I not accepting that Detroit is our mirror, it is a much better squad at multiple positions.

        I’m going to have to rewatch this game, because I was heavily intoxicated during it, it really does look like a bandaid for the defense might be to fully embrace the youth movement.

        I’m becoming more convinced that the Carroll should announce that this will be his final year – might be the extra motivation the team needs to send him off in style. The drafted QB should compete against Lock, and Lock can Lock down QB1 for a year if necessary. The HC shortlist should be Waldron, Ben Johnson, Coach Prime, Ken Dorsey and David Shaw. I would adore Dan Quinn, but I’m sensitive so what Rob argued about pairing the HC with the QB.

        • MaxInVan

          Detroit is a better squad at certain positions, we are better at certain positions, but really we are both teams with high powered offenses and defenses that hold the team back from being true contender.

          I don’t agree with the sentiment that we should move on from Coach Carroll, but I do understand it. Deion Sanders is in no way an option for Seattle and nor should he be. He has proven nothing but winning the transfer portal and done well in recruiting. If we are going to be crazy lets throw in Jake Dickert or Ben Arbuckle’s names in at that point.

    • BK26

      Was going to put my thoughts out there, but I basically agree with you. These two games could be the extremes for this team: the good and the bad. We are seeing this year that it is hard to be consistent, even for two games. And many teams are starting slow.

      I think better coaching and deeper rosters will beat us much more often than not. There just isn’t a baseline for the team, a level that you know that they are going to AT LEAST play at. I fear that another middling year overall (and a mid-round pick) is our destiny again.

      For me, this is what to expect until the big changes come. It worries me, Every year these lauded draft picks get older and the ceiling isn’t growing. I’m worried that they are getting wasted. After all of these years, draft picks are the excitement of the team. But why doesn’t that make me feel better about the team?

      D-line, QBOTF, linebackers are all a mess and need to be rectified. By this time next year. I can enjoy it game by game, but I am REALLY looking at CFB write-ups and game break downs.

      • LouCityHawk


        As long as there is effort every week I’m ok, I’ll follow an 0-17 team so long as the players are fighting for every inch.

        I’m not feeling mediocre, wildly inconsistent in way that could lead to a mediocre record, yes.

        Without repeating myself, Carroll announcing during the bye week that he will be stepping away and assuming an emeritus role (or something like that) after the season is really the right thing to do, allowing a new HC a year to get buy in and acclimate themselves for a year or two before new ownership comes in is the prudent course of action.

        It gives the new owner a chance to move on with little to no drama (not firing PC as their first act) and also to keep/fire the new coach without much drama.

        Also, the new coach can employ the old story about Stalin and Kruschev with the bonus of 2024 being a year that automatically will be blamed on PC.

        My wishlist for next years off-season player wise is

        1) QBotF in draft
        2) high draft pick for interior DLine
        3) accumulate more weapons
        4) continue to build quality depth on Oline and in Secondary
        5) course correct on salaries so the team is not so far outside of norms.

        • BK26

          Once again, completely agree. With Pete planning a retirement, there would be the pomp and everything that Bobby got, just for the rest of the season. He would get to enjoy the fanfare for the rest of the year and go off as a hero again, saying that he’s putting the team in the best spot. And the local media..they might have anneurisms around for the softball questions.

          “What’s it like, the cheering every week?”

          “What are you going to do with your free time?”

          “Tell us stories of the glory days Grandpa!”

          I’ll add one more to the draft list (first two choices are MUST HAVES, in that order): I want a young, hungry linebacker. An alpha. Chiefs defense looks very good, and their biggest change over the last few yeras of drafting Bolton. Guy leads their defense.

          • Romeo A57

            As Rob has stated, there is no guarantee that the Seahawks are sold in 2024. Negotiations could drag into 2025 or maybe Jody gets to hang on to this team for several more years. We cannot really anticipate new ownership coming in and making the needed changes.

            This most likely means that we are stuck with the PC leading the Seahawks through at least the 2024 season. In his 70s, Pete is in win now mode. He does not want to waste a draft pick on a QB that isn’t going to help him win now.

            • BK26

              Would be the best idea. Not what WILL happen. I could paint a pretty accurate picture of the year and the draft and feel confident that I’d be spot-on.

              I expect nothing to happen, no big changes until there is someone over Pete. Maybe a mid-round quarterback that will make me think “oh neat, a younger Geno….” Defense will lose games and not get any better. Wild card playoff appearance, first round exit. Adams and Diggs will stay. Fan majority will be ok with it. Purgatory.

            • LouCityHawk

              I wouldn’t pretend to know Jodi’s mind and am about $5billion short of bein a legitimate bidder for the team, so I recognize those things about ownership and sale. I still think it is most likely that she sells after next season and Bezos is already the buyer in waiting. He was asked to drop out of the bidding for the Commies, and the next team likely to be on the sales block is the Seahawks.

              I wouldn’t count on PC not being wanting to choose his shot to leave. He is reported to have contemplated retirement following the 2017 season. Walking away if this season turns out good (playoffs, maybe 1 win), allows him to claim the high note ending.

          • LouCityHawk

            Just think, they’d have ample time to get PC week ready the following season, unveil the statute, Ring of Honor, raise the 12th man flag…multiple opportunities for warm fuzzies.

            There are some guys I really like this draft cycle, not the names that the Nat media is hyping. Interested to see who Rob highlights. I feel this position is deep and would not mind a double dip in 2024.

        • Big Mike

          Considering both Adams and Diggs seem a lock to be back next year, #5 on your list looks unlikely I’m afraid.

          • LouCityHawk

            That is why it is at #5.

            Another advantage of a new coach, moving on from certain deals to get ‘their guys’.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      You know, it’s entirely okay simultaneously to want the next franchise QB and acknowledge Geno Smith ain’t the problem.

      Aside from his boner sack, yesterday was one of his best games as a Seahawk, in that for the first time that I recall, he actually handled pressure in his face reasonably well.

      Brady Henderson @BradyHenderson

      From @ESPNStatsInfo: today was Geno Smith’s fifth game with at least 300 passing yards and a 70% completion rate since the start of 2022, tied with Patrick Mahomes for the most in the NFL over that span.

      Smith went 32 of 41 (78%) for 328 yards, two TDs, 0 INTs.

      5:36 PM · Sep 17, 2023

      • BK26

        He’s more often than not, not the problem. But he isn’t the answer. LouCity finally nailed it for me: he’s not a weapon. He’s the one out there controlling everything and using the weapons.

        He’s been very good and a pleasant surprise. But he’s not the solution either.

        • Peter

          Exactly. Just look at the first two games. Everything isn’t firing. Scheme isn’t quite right. He’s got no answers.

          Game two. Hey let’s try to add extra blockers and copy Cha’s notes with the three TE looks.

          As said detroit is our mirror. Goff needs everything humming or it doesn’t go. Geno’s got some cool stats being compared to Mahomes in some select ranges. Feels a little of a stretch for Henderson there though. Show me the 12 yard half mahomes had.

          • BK26

            I just watched Joel Klatt talk about the Colorado game. Sheduer dragged that team to a win. Geno can’t do that. Has never done it as a pro. This offense should never look like a mess (and some of that is definitely on the coaching staff).

            • MaxInVan

              I wouldn’t be hyping up that win for CU. WSU beat the breaks off CSU and Colorado is a noticeably more talented team than WSU (though I think WSU is deeper).

            • LouCityHawk

              Sanders and Rattler both demonstrated that they are capable of elevating their teams last week.

              These comments are making my point better than I could have….

              Alex Smith wasn’t the problem in KC, Brad Johnson wasn’t the problem, neither was Trent Dilfer, Rich Gannon, or Stan Humphries. They all were limitations.

              The Geno from Detroit can get us to 11-6, he can beat some playoff teams. He also represents the single biggest variable in whether we can beat PHL/DAL/SF.

              • BK26

                Sanders and Rattler are basically my list. Want to watch more of TVD. But they have sold me already. Rattler overall and Sanders for his Russ-like end of games.

                And alpha leaders. IDK if we have that on the team, at any position anymore.

          • Blitzy the Clown

            Which brings us smack into Rob’s dilemma. Wtf do we do with a Geno Smith playing well, but getting paid elite weapon money?

            The answer depends on the state of the rest of the roster. Or, more particularly, the state of the defense. Geno can’t mask warts. He can’t elevate the offense high enough to lift a sagging defense. To be fair, not many QBs can. Prime Wilson could. Oh you betcha he could. Indeed he did.

            But Geno can’t.

            What he can do though is keep his side of the LOS moving forward. He can keep the offense on a reasonable schedule and deliver points with reasonable regularity. Based on what I’ve seen so far, I believe that if he has a decent defense backing him up on the other side, Geno can take this team pretty deep into the post season.

            And to the extent that Geno plays well enough to get paid $$, despite not being the kind of weapon that can outshine the stain of the current defense, I think I’d argue he’s way more valuable to the team than the guy who will be at full speed in practice for the first time this year, even if he won’t play this week. Take the cap savings from cutting that dead weight and roll it into Geno’s performance risers.

            I’d live with overpaying for a solid if unspectacular Smith over Jamal Adams anything at this point.

            • LouCityHawk

              The nexus of this disagreement isn’t really that far off

              I’m not demonizing Geno, I’m saying what b is and what he isn’t.

              I’m not defending the Defense, I saying what it is and what it isn’t.

              My uncle used to have a saying: if wishes were fishes we’d all have a fry up.

              If Geno has a bad day this team loses, like it or not, he’s the QB.

              If the Defense-collectively has a bad day, the team might still win.

              Where the defense kills us is in games (like the Panthers) where the door should be shut, but the opponent hangs around.

              Where Geno kills us is facing Quinn, Parsons & Co (or the like), where the defense has made just enough plays to keep the game close.

              Would the defense being better help? Sure? But we shouldn’t make excuses for what he is and is not.

      • LouCityHawk

        I’ve literally said elsewhere that I like Geno, I’ve liked him since W.Va. And that Geno being the guy should in no way stop this team from getting the QBotF.

        I also think it is ok to acknowledge that Geno has not elevated his game to the level that other QB has, and he may never do that.

        The easy answer to go on and on about the defensive issues that everyone has spoken about as naseum.

        The harder answer is to look at Geno.

        • Blitzy the Clown

          Hmm. I could look at the Patriots’ Mac Jones and think the same thing, even for a guy on a rookie’s contract. But in the end, they’d still have that awful defense.

          Seems to me, the hard answer is fixing the problem that’s plagued the team for a few years running. But maybe that’s just me.

          • LouCityHawk

            It could be that we disagree on how far away this defense is…

            A real fix requires getting rid of Hurtt or by extension PC, adopting a new scheme, importing players through trades/FA/draft. A turnover process that could take 2-3 years. And maybe still not be there.

            Look at the Dolphins D, all the players and resources, yet still giving up yards and points.

            Like it or not, the D’s best shot at improvement this year is the development of Hall, Young & Spoon.

            • Blitzy the Clown

              Well when you frame it like that…

              Point taken. With the current situation being as it is, perhaps the only viable solution is to luck our way into an elite QB. Because until Carroll hangs it up (read: until the team has a new owner), this shambolic defense is the lump we’re lookin at.

        • Peter

          It’s not hard for me.

          Geno = Goff
          Geno = Cousins
          Geno = wilson trending down

          If you’re deep into the hawks-verse you can recite by heart this stat and that stat. Most yards EVER! ( just needed 17 games to get there) almost 70% completion rate! ( cool ask kyler murray how many big games that’s translated to) how good is with more than 2.5 seconds!! ( yeah and… is it with less)

          I’m with Blitzy here. The defense staying on pace for bottom of the league is the bigger problem. Geno with a top ten defense? Who knows where the limit is. Geno with this feckless defense his good stats and bone headed sack won’t matter. How do I know this? Russel Wilson showed me from 2018 through 2020.

          • LouCityHawk

            The defense will cost us games, but not against the big teams.

            A bottom 10 defense is not a player away though.

            I don’t see an in season fix for this D other than letting the younger players participate and grow and hope their development won’t be a mirage.

            Does that put more pressure on Geno to efficiently use the weapons on offense? Yup. Is that fair? Nope. Is that football? Yup.

            • Peter

              I’m with you and have been forever about letting youth play as much as possible.

  38. swedenhawk

    Why is it that the Seahawks under Carroll so often seem to play up or down to their opponent’s level? Why can’t this team be more consistent? Is the coaching or the culture to blame? Or do we just chalk it up to ‘any given Sunday’?

    • Ben

      They’re definitely lacking in consistency. We play better in prime time games and after unexpected losses.
      I’m looking for that break-thru moment like they had against the Patriots when Sydney Rice caught the long bomb…”You mad bro?”.

    • Palatypus

      You could argue that the Lions did that too these first two weeks.

      • BobbyK

        Definitely. If they Lions has lost to the Chiefs you would have seen a team with more of a fire lit in them. Strange how that works but we know it happens. I’d say yesterday would have had been a loss if KC won that first game. Weird.

  39. Mick

    At 13:00, is that Jen Mueller jumping of joy? I thought that was a really cool reaction.

    • Rob Staton

      Appears so

  40. Coley

    I have to say you were correct on your assessment of the coaching staff last game as the second half is the coaches half and we had no answers for the Rams.
    This last game we finally got to see this high powered offense. Seems they need to be better than other teams by a large margin in order to overcome mediocre coaching. Never the less, happy with the win.

  41. cha

    PC says Jamal Adams probably not this week, probably next week.

    First week of full-speed practice this week.

    • Palatypus

      Probably not ever.

    • Schrub

      Honestly I’d rather have Jamal in there right now rather than Love.

      • cha

        40.7 PFF so far

    • Big Mike

      I probably don’t care.
      Oh wait, there’s no probably about it.

    • BobbyK

      Not this year but maybe next:)

  42. GoHawksDani

    I know a coin has two sides, and I just watched the first half, but man…this team must’ve got lucky in the second, because this is a pretty bad team.

    First half run game: K9 had like 12 yards on 14 carries or something like that? I don’t put this on him, because the run block is awful, especially outside, but it is laughably bad number. Charbonnet had some nice runs

    Pass game: Pretty mehh. Had a couple of nice passes, but mostly seemed like broken coverage or just a better thrown ball and better WR than secondary player. Pass blocking was OK considering everything, but I also didn’t like the pass gameplan. Not enough short and medium routes, most shorter passes were basically screen-like for 1-2-3 yards, and the ones that brought 7-10 yards were mostly YAC and checkdowns for 4-5 yards. Also, when Geno checked to K9 maybe 2nd or 3rd play, Lockett was crazy open in the middle like 10-15 yards deep…?

    Defense: Inside of the DL is pretty awful. Outside is not much better. Reed is OK, but rest seemed really mediocre. Linebackers played awful. Bobby is slow as hell. Woolen has talent, but seems like this year always injured or close to injury. I’ll talk about Spoon later. Rest of the CBs are either pretty bad or mediocre. I think Diggs is usually better than we think. He’s not ETIII or Kam, but he can bring some bangs and INT the ball. Not a star safety, but a good/decent one. I don’t like Love. He made some OK plays, but also seemed missaligned a lot. Seems like run game will be really profitable against this D. If the passrush is not getting better (Nwosu? Taylor? Or that new FA who’s name I forgot because he didn’t do a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g yet?) passing game will be too…

    As for gameplan and playcall: I didn’t like the defensive playcall…I get for example that you don’t wanna man St Brown all night with Spoon, but is it really easier for a rookie for his first game to pass players in a fake-man-zone D playcall? It feels like they’re making the defense a bit more complex for these young guys that they can handle. On the offense, I didn’t hate it, I liked the heavier sets to help the OL, and the fact that this group cannot runblock is not the gameplan’s fault. The passing game could’ve been a bit varied, especially after DK went down (maybe +2-3 target for JSN, and maybe 1-2 more for Bobo?). It felt a bit too easy decision to double Lockett.

    For the rookies:
    We only saw small glimpses from Charbonnet, but I liked it. He runs and fights hard for every yards. Hopefully he can stay healthy and he could be RB2 who plays like and RB1
    JSN played well it to my eyes, but I didn’t see anything that could warrant a high pick. Early season and he didn’t do anything wrong, so hopefully they’ll include him more in the gamplan once the OL gets healthier.
    Bobo – This guy has a good vibe. Like a fighter. Like Baldwin was. He wasn’t targeted really (only one emergency dump), but he downed a punt inside the 5 with quickness and decisiveness. I’m curious if he’ll be a roster causality sometime, or he might fade, or he’ll be a lock and will deliver constant good numbers in year 2-3-4.
    Spoon – I try not to be too harsh. If this would’ve been the performance of an R5 rookie, I’d be extatic. He made a really nice open field tackle on a run play. And he made a nice PBU. But he also brought a stupid penalty and he was burned regularly. Now I don’t think all those completions were his faults. But he left WRs reeeaaally open, like 4-5 yards between him and the WR. It is his 1st game and no preseason. He’s a rookie…but when you’re one of the highest picks of this franchise, you’re a #5 pick, and you’re the highest drafted CB of a front office, who never drafts CBs in R1/2 the expectations will be really high. Maybe this is not fair, but anything less than being a top12-14-16 CB at the end of the year and I’ll be disappointed. The jury is still out, but the 1st half was a more bad than a good outing for him (especially against Goff who’s not like Mahomes, Allen or Burrow

  43. Henry Taylor

    Given how Tre Brown played, bouncing back from a poor week one that represented his first game action for year, do we think it would be better to go back to plan A at corner and have Spoon in the slot (assuming Woolen is available)?

    The middle of the field coverage remains extremely poor and I agree with the suggestion that Spoon is better nearer the LoS.

    • cha

      Pete has Tre behind Witherspoon I’d say, if this morning’s comments mean anything.

      He said that Witherspoon knew exactly what to do on a play and Brown didn’t. Brown had to hustle to make a play because he was not lined up properly.

      • Henry Taylor

        Maybe just in nickle then? Slide Spoon inside and bring on Tre rather than Coby?

        • cha


          Julian Love is playing so poorly he may get benched for Coby.

          Spoon and Brown can flex between CB and nickel.

          Just spitballing.

  44. Mr. Drucker in hooterville

    Time to consider drafting a great college kicker who will cost less than a veteran anyway?

    • Peter

      Nah. Next year is an even year. Myers will be right by then.

  45. cha

    PFF Defense

    (safeties, woof)

      • Blitzy the Clown

        Will Dissly starting this year like he did his rookie year. Dude’s on a mission.

        • LLLOGOSSS

          Dissly has always been a DVOA and DYAR darling.

      • Rob Staton

        Well done Stone Forysthe

    • Blitzy the Clown

      If you’d have shown this to me preseason I’d have said it’s upside down

    • Rob Staton

      The investment at safety at this point is an absolute joke based on the results they’re getting on the field

      Just have two young, fast, physical guys back there on a rookie deal! The performance can’t be any worse! And pump the salary into the D-line!

      • Zxvo3

        If we just put Coby Bryant back there I’d be fine with that

      • Ben

        I like the model of drafting defense and paying offense.

  46. no frickin clue

    To address Rob’s initial question: I think this team plays to the level of its opponent, and that is a sign of an immature team.

    Against the Rams, who on paper for wk1 had Aaron Donald, Matt Stafford and not a lot else, this team did not show urgency, seemingly didn’t want it as much, and lost its composure when things went south.

    Against the Lions, who put the league on notice when they beat the Chiefs in KC, they had more urgency and played better, even with backups at both offensive tackle positions.

    A championship-caliber team exerts its will on its opponents, regardless of the opponent level, and finds a way to fight back when things are not going its way. This team is not that.

    Just my $0.02.

  47. Blitzy the Clown

    Love to see this

    • Rob Staton

      Bobo should be more involved than he is so far

      • MaxInVan

        Where though? The 2 and 3 TE sets have been where Seattle has seen a lot of success the last 2 seasons, and the top 3 WR seem pretty set in stone. I just don’t see him getting a ton more snaps without injury problems (he had 17 O snaps yesterday)

        • Rob Staton

          I still think there has to be a way to get him involved — he is legit

    • cha

      PFF graded him 85 in run blocking

      • Blitzy the Clown

        Which is insane for a WR!

        And like Rob mentioned above, Stone and Jake were rock solid.

        Anyone else really bullish on our offense?

  48. MaxInVan

    The rush defense has statistically been very good to start the year. As much as the eye test might not support this, Bobby has the most run stops in the league to start the year with the average depth of tackle being 2.1

    Im confident in the pass defense getting better. The pass rush is the missing link but you have young players there that can grow potentially

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