Well, this is interesting.
Albert Breer from SI.com was asked in his latest mailbag whether Pete Carroll will be coaching the Seahawks in 2024.
Here’s his response in full:
I’d say I’m less sure of it than I have been in recent years. Going into this year, it sure looked like the Seahawks were creeping closer toward having the kind of core group of players they did in Carroll’s early years, with a very solid 2022 draft class coming back and the ’23 class bursting with promise.
Now they’re 6–7 heading into a matchup against the NFC champion Eagles, who are coming off consecutive losses. So while Seattle remains loaded with young talent, it’s fair to ask how far away they might be from a championship and where they stand at quarterback after this year. Because, while coming into this year I thought that infusion of young talent might keep Carroll around for a while, if the coach doesn’t think he’s that close, it could alter his decision on returning for next season (during which he’ll turn 73).
And the idea that Seattle would try to get Cowboys DC Dan Quinn (who was Seattle’s DC for its two Super Bowl trips a decade ago) if Carroll were to retire has been floated around a little. Which … the Seahawks could do a lot worse than that, if this were to be it.
Interestingly, Puck & Jim on KJR played a segment from Breer discussing this on their radio show earlier. Afterwards, Puck revealed that Mike Garafolo had spoken to him recently and suggested the same thing about Carroll. You can hear it by clicking here and fast-forwarding to 14:30. You can also hear from Garafolo on the same show here:
“I’m picking up what Breer’s putting down. The Seattle/Dallas game is where I was really hearing a lot of that, ‘don’t be surprised if this all falls into place’. I believe that some people think this could be the end for sure, depending on how this finishes up down the stretch.”
Back to Breer’s article and let’s start with the retirement talk. It’s interesting that this is at least being discussed by a reporter of Breer’s status. It’s still wholly speculative. There’s no reporting here, just thoughts. But we haven’t had anything like this since the end of the 2017 season when Jay Glazer suggested Carroll was considering retiring.
It’s worth noting that back in 2017, things were imploding somewhat. Weeks after that season ended, players like Richard Sherman and Michael Bennett were cut. A major re-set took place, with two new coordinators. If the Seahawks are facing something similar in a month’s time, it’s worth considering whether Carroll — now six years older — still has the appetite to go through it all again. Especially if he was thinking of walking in 2017.
Carroll can’t look at the current product on the field and think the Seahawks are close. They’re a long way off. The games against San Francisco brutally exposed that. If the decision is based around a feeling that a lot of work is still required, that could lend weight to Breer’s speculation.
We also need to think about the trade for Leonard Williams. When the Seahawks were in first place, making that trade, it was clearly an attempt to take ownership of the division. To go 1-5 since that move, with two hefty defeats against San Francisco thrown into the mix, is a stark reminder of how far behind Seattle is. The aggressive nature of the trade could also be indicative of a coach who was in a rush to win.
I think Carroll has continued not for the sake of it but because he genuinely felt like success was forthcoming. In 2017, he cracked on and why not? Russell Wilson was about to enter his peak years. There’s nothing like that now. Instead there’s K.J. Wright going on the radio and suggesting the players ‘don’t give a damn’ about what Carroll’s saying while also wondering if the coach is equally a bit sick of certain players on the roster. Meanwhile, we can all see a team with no identity and serious question marks at key positions.
You can’t ignore all of this stuff and there’s a definite ‘end game’ feel to what we’re witnessing. John Middlekauff and Colin Cowherd talked about ‘the end’ a few days ago. Now we have this from Breer. It’ll only grow if the Seahawks lose a fifth game in a row on Monday night.
Let’s finish with the final paragraph and the suggestion by Breer that people within the league are at least discussing the possibility of Carroll departing and Dan Quinn replacing him.
If you’d have said any time over the last two years, put money on someone to replace Carroll, I would’ve put it on Quinn. They are clearly very close. Carroll talks glowingly about Quinn. At the various pro-days this year, the pair were often spotted in conversation. There’s a big connection there.
It’d be very easy to see Quinn as a continuity candidate, carrying some of the Carroll DNA forwards while putting his own slant on things.
He’s also been a Head Coach, has helped lead a team to the Super Bowl and nothing will surprise him in the top job. It’d be a safe appointment.
For all of these reasons, it’d be an easy sell to fans. With Head Coaching appointments you often try to ‘win the press conference’ as owners/decision makers. This would be a way to do that and even those not keen on the move would likely give Quinn a chance.
His defenses in Dallas have succeeded. They’re currently sixth in the league per DVOA and in 2022 and 2021 they finished fourth. He has consistently produced a top-performing unit.
Clearly Quinn has benefited from the presence of Micah Parsons — a thoroughly unique playmaker who fits the bill of ‘generational talent’. He wouldn’t be coming to Seattle with Quinn, obviously.
This is a point people uneasy with the appointment will make.
For the sake of balance, it’s worth noting that many other players are performing well under Quinn’s leadership. DaRon Bland is setting records for interceptions and has a 90.5 PFF grade as a former fifth round pick. Malik Hooker is grading as a top-10 safety and Stephon Gilmore has returned to form at cornerback. Markquese Bell is PFF’s seventh ranked linebacker and Osa Odighizuwa is their fifth ranked interior defensive lineman. DeMarcus Lawrence has a 90.3 grade and several other defenders are grading well too.
Maybe Parsons is just so good that everyone else jumps up a level? Or maybe Quinn has actually done a really good job developing and maxing out Parsons with creative scheming, while elevating a number of other players (young and old)?
Another criticism might be that Quinn’s Atlanta success was heavily influenced by Kyle Shanahan’s presence as offensive coordinator. When he departed for San Francisco, things fell apart somewhat. After the pair went 8-8 together in 2015, they finished 11-5 the following year and reached a Super Bowl they should’ve won. Without Shanahan, Quinn went 10-6, 7-9, 7-9 and 0-5 before being fired.
Shanahan turned Matt Ryan into the league MVP. Steve Sarkisian replaced him for two years, then Dirk Koetter took over. They never reached anywhere near the 2016 heights.
This is the problem with any defensive hire as a Head Coach. The league is so heavily weighted to offense now that unless you get the play-caller/quarterback right, you immediately put yourself on the back foot. DeMeco Ryans is an example of how it works with Bobby Slowik and C.J. Stroud. Dennis Allen, with Pete Carmichael Jr and Derek Carr, is an example of it not working.
The other problem is that when you have any success on offense, you’re likely to lose your offensive coordinator as Quinn did in 2016. It’s why so many teams now prefer to go the offensive route. You need your play-caller and QB to be tight. You need your offensive game-plan to be consistently strong. You won’t lose your play-caller or system to another team if the Head Coach is also the man leading the offense.
Quinn has presumably spent considerable time pondering who he’d like to hire if he gets another chance to be a Head Coach. It could be someone like Kellen Moore — who’s not guaranteed to stay with the Chargers if Brandon Staley is fired. It could be an up-and-comer on the Dallas staff, such as Scott Tolzien. It could be someone we wouldn’t expect. Preferably it would be someone with the sufficient chops to lead this team and potentially develop a young quarterback, with it feeling increasingly inevitable that they’re going to draft a QB. If Carroll retires, whoever the new Head Coach is has to — as an absolute priority — find a way to maximise the weapons Seattle has on offense with cultured scheming, misdirection and far more consistency.
I wouldn’t hate a Quinn hire, even if I’d prefer the team to somehow land the next great offensive mind. This isn’t a fantastic coaching cycle in 2024. There are offensive-minded candidates but some aren’t calling plays because they work behind offensive Head Coaches. Some are young, raw and would be unpredictable. There aren’t many big name options. The 49ers don’t have an offensive coordinator to poach (they simply have Chris Foerster operating the running game and O-line and Klint Kubiak acts as a passing game specialist) while McVay’s coordinator is Mike LaFleur who is respected but recently struggled with the Jets.
With Quinn, at least we know he’s been there and got the T-shirt. He’ll have hopefully learned from his time in Atlanta. There’s something to be said for that. He’s likeable, uncontroversial and it’d feel like a solid hire.
I can also well imagine Carroll’s approval being part of any potential departure, too. And as noted, he and Quinn are close.
That might be my least likeable thing about it though. There needs to be a proper clean break with new messaging and a new staff. It can’t just be Carroll’s staff with Dan Quinn and a few others. The Seahawks can’t cling to the old glory days with the hope that Quinn can effectively be a young Carroll. If they did end up with Quinn, you’d hope he’d be given a big say in putting together a new staff with a focus on a fresh start and a clean break.
He would also have to get the offensive coordinator position right.
I appreciate this is all still very much in the ‘need to see it to believe it’ stage but when you listen on the radio these days, both KJR and 710 are talking about Carroll’s future. Breer’s talking about it. Middlekauff and Cowherd are talking about it. Garafolo is talking about it.
Without a serious upturn in results in the last four games, maybe change is around the corner after all?
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I wonder what Quinn wants.
He interviewed with four teams in 2022 and three this year and decided to return to Dallas both times.
If I remember, he got a second interview with one or two of them this year.
I suspect he’d take the Seahawks gig if offered
He’d have to know the disadvantage he would start out with and lean into it. He’d need to be able to churn his offensive staff with success, on top of his regular duties.
Houston has DeMeco Ryans, a top young QB and the defense is literally right in the middle of the league defense-wise at #16 in scoring. They’re 7-6. One more win and they’ll have won more games than 2022 and 2021 combined.
And all anyone is talking about is poaching Bobby Slowik.
Ryans might not be able to keep the team on an upward trajectory based on his defensive chops alone. Even if it is not this year, Slowik is not long for the Coordinator position. Ryans must know what the next couple seasons look like.
Does Quinn want even more responsibility of that nature?
I wouldn’t think the Hawks position is the best opportunity for immediate success. Too much cap space wasted. Some young talent but holes on the roster you could drive a truck through.
Slowik might be the guy. I am more than willing to spend a few seasons finding out.
A very hot name, but very little public info out there about him.
Excelente Rob. About our next game, I really hope they don’t win, I don’t want to hear “fans” saying … Pete isn’t over bla bla bla
I may like a Quinn hire for a team like the Steelers (if Tomlin leaves), Chargers or Commanders but not the Seahawks.
I don’t think there should be any link to Carroll. This is a ship on fire with too many garbage personalities, lack of leaders, and lack of future draft picks (’24 & ’25) and the way they’ve structured contracts to screw over future cap space. You want to break from that – not keep association with it.
I think a new coach does have a chance to do well in ’25 with young guys like Spoon, JSN, KW3, Cross, Mafe… there’s some talent to work with. If there’s a young QB there’s a chance in ’26 to start playing in some meaningful games again.
Unfortunately, the Seahawks are probably going to win 3 of the last 4 and the kool-aid with be how great we finished and how close we were so much so that we’ll be tortured with another year of these frauds.
+1
well said. I am so ready for an offensive minded head coach.
I agree. Pete should have ZERO say in whoever replaces him. I almost rule out Quinn (who I do like that I think knows how to succeed) because he will always be tied to Carroll. I don’t want anything with Pete lingering.
And he needs to be fired, let go, “mutually parted ways.” This is his mess that we now have and it needs to be reflected in the ending of it.
I think the lack of draft picks and cap space mess is actually a reason to ride with Carroll one more year, because it makes it less likely to get a top candidate in here. Obviously that could change if we crater down the stretch and it makes it untenable to keep Carroll here while also raising our 2024 1st rounder. But, as many have alluded to, I think we’ll have the same late season surge typical of “motivator Pete” and we’ll trudge on into 2024 with largely the same cast of coaches. However, someone in the front office needs to stop the bleeding and make 2025 and 2026 draft picks off limits in trades and protect this franchise. No more mortgaging the future for a coach clearly coming to the end.
Rob said,
Seahawks 3 Ravens 37
“Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking.”
Seahawks 16 Rams 17
“Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.”
Seahawks 35 Cowboys 41
“Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.”
MNF Eagles @ Seahawks
“Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!”
A hospital what is it?
It’s a big building with patients but that’s not important now.
Surely you can’t be serious.
I am, and stop calling me Shirley.
We have clearance Clarence
Roger Roger
What’s our vector Victor?
There’s a sale at Penny’s !!!
Get me Rex Kramer!
I love gladiator movies.
Jim never has a 2nd cup of coffee at home
And that’s when my drinking problem began.
Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?
That’s it…… we need a SDB bar.
Clearly, the airplane is going down.
What we need is a good auto-pilot.
…and a cigarette afterward.
So, those fans who are eager for major change/overhaul, are faced with the prospect of rooting for the Seahawks to lose every game going forward, and leave no hope of Pete’s infamous optimism to see *any* sign of hope or progress.
Man… what a crappy season this has become.
I have been actively rooting for a Seattle collapse since 2018. It has created an awful tension in the house because my wife and kids are so bought in, because of how much I love my team, that they cheer wildly for any positive results while I glower knowing we are that much further from ridding ourselves of the one person that holds us back.
Similar dynamic in my home. I’m a real buzz kill so I try to keep my trap shut but they know.
But, hey, what a magical ride it’s been with the Huskies this season (and last). No complaints.
This is the year my son adopted the Huskies. Perfect way to fall in love with college football. Just ordered his first Husky gear, one of his holiday presents.
I feel this.
A little later for me but post “the trade,” when they made no move to get serious at qb….I’m in limbo.
If any thing was great I’d feel different:
Epic pass offense
Best run team
Great secondary
Killer pass rush
Now I actually dread games like Dallas. The “we almost had them,” of the thing drives me crazy.
Reading this article honestly felt like a breath of fresh air. Even if we hired Dan Quinn as head coach, he would cede some control over to whoever is hired for offensive coordinator. If we walked into next season with Quinn as HC, a new OC, and a rookie QB then I will be happy no matter what the outcome is of next season. We would have a new identity, full of new and hungry ideas.
I’m not a big fan of Quinn as head coach but it’s preferable to another go-round with Carroll. My concern is that if we found a great OC, he wouldn’t stick around long. Since the plan wouldn’t be to hire Quinn to let him go so the OC could take over, it could really preclude future success. That, and I’d prefer a clean break. But then beggers can’t be choosers. And billions of sports are beggars. Maybe 200 owners (worldwide) are choosers. Ok, 200’s probably too low but you get the idea.
You know the joke: “77 percent of statistics are made up on the fly”.
I do want an offensive minded coach:
Eric Bienemy
Brian Johnson
Brian Callahan
Bobby Slowik
Unfortunately there’s not too many of them out there. I would like to find our own Kyle Shanahan or Andy Reid lol
Who else is there?
Brian Callahan was the one I highlighted first in my ‘replacements’ article which is written (but I’m waiting to publish)
Or Sark!
Sark won’t leave. He’s succeeding at probably the hardest coaching job k. The country.
Callahan, idk with his DUI.
Well Sark also had a drinking problem at one point. As much as I hate to say it I would rather keep Pete than have sark as a HC. Callahan is a good coach.
Kellen Moore.
I think he was scapegoated in Dallas and the Chargers seem to be in shambles even with a young stud QB, but that was happening before Kellen got there.
Creative offensive mind.
Young.
PNW guy.
His dad’s a coaching legend in the state of Washington.
Dak credits him with helping become a pro/franchise QB.
No guarntees in life, but IMO Moore will make a solid HC either in the NFL or college.
I hope he at least gets an interview. Who knows what the hell was going on behind the scenes under Staley. The rest of the season won’t be the greatest indicator either with Herbert on IR. But if he works a miracle with Stick, he’ll definitely vault up in the national conversation.
I’ve posted a bunch of names prior, I’m waiting for Rob to post his article to really dive into his names and see if he has missed any of the ones I’ve flagged.
Wes Phillips is one I particularly like, but his recent DUI is concerning.
Press Taylor, Frank Smith, Kafka, Stevanavich…Davis Webb…there are a lot of interesting names out there.
Just added this to the piece…
Now added these quotes from Garafolo:
While I wouldn’t hate Quinn as I think he would do a good job on defense, I agree with you I’d be leery of him for the two reasons you said:
1) wild card of who runs offense
1b) if they are good, they will get poached
2) association with Carroll might actually be a hindrance at this point
I’d rather go with a gamble of a hot shot college coach who is consistently great scheme wise and has upside, or just the best perceived OC in the NFL who interviews well.
Honestly tho if they keep Diggs and Adams next year while I won’t quit the team, I’ll KNOW that they are committing GM malpractice and I won’t have any excitement for the season which will suck.
I’m guessing if Quinn came in they’d be gone.
With the rarest exceptions I think the college game and the pro game are getting so far apart it’s less likely a college guy, without pro experience, can break through.
Just thinking about the huskies and the ducks. Neither offense will work in the pros.
Maybe a guy….like Carroll who may have failed once before and regrouped. I can see that.
I really don’t want Quinn to replace Carroll. I don’t want another defensive coach. I don’t want any connection to the old days. Seattle is just too enamored with bringing the old guard back (Bobby, Bruce, Reed, etc). I want something completely new. I also fear that they could move Carroll up to the back office and he would still have some control over Quinn for a year or two. Just wipe the slate clean and give me something fresh.
My opinion as well and for the reasons you mentioned. If Carroll truly leaves in full retirement it would be far more palatable.
Yep. I’m pretty over all of it. I don’t want some goofy backroom behind the scenes coaching. I want someone that can and does blaze their own trail.
+1
Great observation about Pete still being involved. It is time, and has been for years, for Seattle to move on from Pete’s vision.
Im 100% against Quinn. Are we that afraid to go out and try something new? I feel like this is the closest thing to Carroll while not having Carroll. It seems like a great way to stay a .500 franchise for the next few years. Its not like it will be a tough position to fill like the browns or something. I think a lot of guys would jump at some of the young talent here in a team with a recent history of success. And there’s no state income tax, although thats not the same selling point as the Florida teams. I’d like them to seek far and wide before taking the insurance bet at the blackjack table.
I’m not posting my own comment because you posted my thoughts in your first two sentences. Would rather the Hawks try something daring. If it doesn’t work out, it’s alright; we can try again. These years stuck in muck are the worst. I preferred being a fan when we had some two win seasons. At least then, there was anticipation of what comes next. That’s what’s been missing for me for the last several years.
I’ve now added video thoughts at the top of the article.
Awesome, Rob. Really appreciate your duel presentations.
Ha!.. this was my hot take on a blog post before the big losing streak started.. might have been around the last Rams loss.. i had a feeling he might give up then.. now theyre looking at a 5 game losing streak and a 6 and 8 record..
I said Dan Quinn would probably be considered a replacement because pete is still VP of something or other..
Get on my level.. just kidding..
Appreciate the posts.. very good segment on KJR, rob.. cheers
I don’t buy the “Micah Parsons made Dan Quinn what he is in Dallas” argument. Quinn was hired in January of 2021 and Parsons was drafted in April of 2021. He surely played a role in picking Parsons in the first round and no one thought he would be as good as he is now.
I think he deserves credit for identifying talent and using a scheme to best showcase his players. It is fair to criticize his management of the offense without Shanahan as the OC. The players in Dallas clearly love him and if Dallas gets bounced he will be the HC when McCarthy is ran out of town.
There’s trurth in what you say. At the same time, there was luck in getting Parsons. The draft is parrtly a craps shoot. In a redraft, Parsons would be long gone before Dallas was on the clock.
Team goes from losing 3-0 to putting up 63 with a quarter to go! Staley might be fired tonight.
Yeah. Curious if Kellen Moore gets named interim head coach tomorrow morning. Would be good to see how he handles the role.
Brutal game.
Going into the locker, he spoke of coming back out and playing for pride so he wasn’t under any illusion they might come back. Didn’t seem all that distressed, which surprised me. We’ll see what happens. Richard Sherman offered his opinion, of course.
I don’t think he can get on the bus after tonight.
Wish Seattle played the Chargers down the stretch. I would like to see which team was more checked out.
Rob, you said you weren’t going to root against the Hawks down the stretch. I suppose you don’t have that latitude because some folks would be pissed. But you yourself also said that if we win a few meaningless games down the stretch people may see it as a resurrection of sorts. Which is true. Most fans don’t pay attention to details like the quality of the competition. So I’ll be rooting for four losses and the best possible draft pick. Merry Christmas, Giants!
While Rob may not have that latitude, I am hoping the Eagles come into MNF with their hair on fire for a “get right” game.
Carroll has a history of struggling in Tennessee and I’m hoping we’re about to see Levis go on a Hasselbeck 2002-type tear of cutting it loose and having fun. Hard to see this being a 6th loss in a row though, if we lose MNF.
Steelers game is probably the most winable remaining on our schedule. At home, Trubisky at QB, and cratering defense.
Then we go to Glendale… house of horrors, especially if we play a backup QB.
So while I can see a 1-3 finish, I think it’ll end up being 2-2 or 3-1…. and a rinse/repeat 2024.
Looking forward for your ideas of a new head coach. Dan Quinn is definitely on the table, but it would be somehow too expected of a move. I’m not very much against it, if he finds himself a good OC, but I would welcome an offensive HC.
I know a good deal of folks here are big time husky fans.
Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see the Kalen Deboer love as seahawks HC. The list in modern times of great college coaches to the pros is very small. And the seahawks have one of those guys.
Perhaps this is all part of his trajectory but there’s a big difference between carrol and deboer who this season has been great for you all and last season was fun but Pete was a big time, big winning college coach with multiple national championships.
I’m not saying I’m against it outright. Just saying I’m a little concerned about a guy who yet has not won a national championship and has one power five conference title.
I like DeBoer, and he wouldn’t even make my top 5 list of college coaches, if that is the direction the Seahawks want to go.
Also weird that UW fans are clamoring for this, he is young, plan on him coaching there for 30 years…although, welcome to the Big10.
Maybe the huskies win the title? But money in the college game being near enough to the pro game I just see him going to whatever the next ‘hot’ SEC team is available in the future.
UW is a pretty sweet gig, even if the Big10 is less desirable.
All the benefits of a SEC school with none of the crazy pressure/media.
If he wins a national championship this year he has a ten year window before anyone even questions him, wins 2 or 3 he can stick around for life.
Carroll wasn’t really a college coach who moved to the NFL – he was an NFL coach working at the college level between NFL gigs. His NFL roots go way back to the Vikings under Bud Grant (I think) to the 49ers, Jets, Patriots, etc. He went to USC after years in the NFL, was very successful, and then returned to the NFL. DeBoer is a college coach through and through.
I’m not a Harbaugh guy but guys like Pete and John are pretty rare. Guys who did both and at a high level.
Straight college to pros guys haven’t really been that successful in modern times.
A lot of college fans think coaches at that level will translate 1:1 in the pros. It’s like folks who think Alabama could beat the jets or whatever.
Accountability? Count me in!
https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2023/12/14/kansas-city-chiefs-patrick-mahomes-says-eric-bieniemy-set-the-standard-for-accountability/
I’m big on him. He’s a jerk apparently but he gets results. I’m over players actively joking about checking out. From Bennett through today..
Even “my guy” DK. Would love some to feed him the rock but also keep him focused.
This is what probably will happen. A defensive old fart replacing Carroll to keep things exactly as they are, just without Carroll. I will always respect Quinn as a defensive coordinator. He was a key asset in the Seahawks’ sole super bowl victory. But the tide has turned in the league and now what to look for is someone like McDaniels. What a guy like that could do with the offensive weapons at Seattle… Then someone like Quinn is exactly what is needed, for a DC. But yeah, it doesn’t seem like a realistic scenario right now.
Still, Quinn is far from the worst thing that could happen after Carroll. I just don’t see it as a step up from mediocrity. It rather looks like a lateral move.
The quinn move is like when fans talk about Carrol ‘hand picking’ his successor. I’m sure it’s happened before….I just can’t recall it.
When it’s time to move on it’s time to move on.
While I’m not ‘stoked’ about Quinn as HC, if you look at the Seahawks the past 4-5 years you see an inconsistent offense and a butt-ugly defense. Defense still matters in the NFL despite the rule changes especially if you have the right personnel and scheme. Quinn could do that and with a consistent offense with a dynamic QB and OC, and at least things would be trending in the right direction, unlike now.
Wishful thinking. Carroll coachs through 2025.
You know more than Breer and Garafolo then?
I don’t understand how comments like this move the conversation forward.
Coaches are fired/resign/retire before their contract term ends all the time.
I mean, if there is other evidence, just saying it is ‘2025’ or ‘Jody won’t do it’ is a dog that won’t hunt with the larger fan base.
No way they can let him hang around until ‘25. You think players will listen to him more than now?
Rob has put it pretty succinctly. If we are not winning the title or damn near close to winning the title in two years what’s the point of keeping carrol?
Depending on how you count it they’ve had a reset in 2019/2020 and then traded away for good reasons, bit still did, the best qb this team has ever had for a very good haul. And this is what we have with yet another reset.
I want carrrol to go before he’s the villain.
I love all the cap break down stuff. But how can anyone believe that…okay, okay, this time we’re really serious about investing in the positions that matter?
I mean this team has not fielded an oline that is essentially an excuse factory for over a decade. They’ve literally drafted one single dlinemen who mattered. No one can tell me that the team that thought paying safeties top edge rusher money is suddenly going to shift all the resources after never ever doing it into the best free agents on the trenches they can get to finally stand up to niners, etc.
Lot of angst for Dan Quinn as possible HC
Let’s not forget how good he has the Dallas D playing in the offense first league. They may give up yards but they are opportunistic and that’s how you deal with the high charged offenses.
I’d be happy with him and a good energetic OC working under him.
I hear you. I just worry as Rob has noted that the day you find a good OC is the day you start looking for a new one because they get poached to become head coaches.
Let’s also not forget who he learned to be a head coach from.
Does the probable sale of the franchise in 2025 (that’s right isn’t it?) play into this?
Potentially makes Jody less likely to want to make big changes, if Pete thinks his time is up I could see Jody asking him to hang on a year.
Also, does it affect the candidates view of the role? I’d be less keen to move to a new job if I knew the ownership was changing next year.
I think this an overrated angle because the feeling seems to be, very much, that John Schneider will make the call and will be here beyond 2025.
Thanks.
It will be interesting to see John without Pete. How much of what we have seen in the traditional GM role was actually Pete? It’s convenient to hope the free agency hesitation, Hail Mary trades and contract over payments were all Pete and the good stuff was John, but who knows?
Chris Peterson doing anything?
TV
(yes that was a smart-assed response…….lol)
Don’t the huskies still employ him in some consulting capacity as well?
I’m sure it is exactly what he should be doing, in relation to the Seahawks.
Coach Pete is a fantastic coach. He is a teacher and developer of young men – a perfect college coach. He is NOT an NFL type. I can’t see him having any interest in working with highly paid professionals and the headaches the NFL will give him. Not that I don’t think he could do it successfully, I do. I just don’t see the pro game as a good fit for the type of person he is.
My oldest daughter is a Public Relations professional, she talks about companies leaking things to reporters or doing alternative things to send up ‘trial balloons’.
When I read this report about Breer, this struck me as Pete Carroll’s camp floating a trial balloon, ‘what if Pete retires’. In 2017, if my memory serves there was a groundswell from fans of ‘don’t leave us’ type responses and feelings. 2023 isn’t feeling that way. My informal reading of the leaves is that a Carroll retirement would be met with relief largely – and most fans happy to give him a standing O on his way out the door. There would be some champagne bottles popping, and some doom and gloom whiskey drinking— the mood seems to be that it is time.
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I always tell my employees to imagine everyone as a rational actor, and if they aren’t acting rationally, figure out why, then act rationally with that factor in mind.
I’ve used this recently with Jody Allen, everything we see from the outside looks like the way a rational actor would handle things. Especially one not eager for the spotlight. January 8 is the day you take care of business.
Now, as Rob (and others) points out, the Carroll rational actor approach is looking at 2023 as a year that might be the last. What is the rational reason for running it back again in 2024 knowing what changes are in store? What are the reasons why he would want his successor to be handpicked? Why would Carroll want to risk more to extend a legacy that is very much complete?
The rational Carroll believes in himself, but he is not blind, years of mistakes have given him some hubris. He laid the groundwork for his retirement (league rule changes have ruined the game), and can now go off into the sunset.
Your first paragraph makes a ton of sense and I agree that the response from fans would be/already is far different this time around. I also believe Carroll actually vocalizing frustration with players not listening to him, even tho we all know it’s happened before, is a sign that he may well have had enough.
Getting my hopes up that he walks away. Please no winning the last 3 of 4 to “re-energize” him into staying!
I’ve been around for every coaching change in franchise history. Right now I have the same feeling I had in the 90s hoping that Flores and Erickson would be removed. I would say this is shaping up to be more the like the end of the Flores and Mora eras. Erickson was given a make the playoffs or else mandate and quite frankly that team should have made the playoffs if not for the Testaverde helmet fiasco.
But Mora and Flores’ teams quit. Based on KJ Wright’s comments (which Pete laughed off in his presser yesterday), I would say Pete, like Flores and Mora, might be on the verge of losing this team too. That could indeed push Pete to announce his retirement. I hope he’s not “fired” and is given the opportunity to leave on his terms, which he should do 100% if he can just put his ego aside. I mean the guy is going to be 73 years old. At what point does he and his wife just sail into the sunset and enjoy their remaining years. I mean he already has more money than he can ever begin to spend and there is no chance he is ever sniffing another Super Bowl. Look inthe mirror and Tell the truth Pete! Thanks for the SB, but now go retire.
As for Quinn? Meh, I would much prefer a clean slate with no Carroll connections and an offenseive minded coach, but anything has to be better than what Pete has put out there the past 6 years.
Ditto (which makes us both old LOL) and ditto
HA! Not old Big Mike, seasoned vets!!
After everything that Pete did for Jamal Adams (trade, extension, regular protection from earned criticism, poor play, behavioral outbursts, etc.), I can’t help but believe that he’s a big part of the internal disruption that will get Pete fired.
I remember when Jamal faced his first criticism long ago. When asked about Carroll, he said something like, “I’d walk over hot coals for Pete Carroll”. Well, the coals are hot, Jamal.
Did Bobby also say he also doesn’t sense that he himself has lost a step in coverage…?
Sigh. Not you too, Bobby. Sure, “winning cures all that” but you have to look at the reasons why they are doing the opposite of winning. If he believes they are going to start winning again and all will be well, then I don’t know what to tell him. Hopefully he is just toeing the party line.
Too bad that you may need to win 4 and even then it may be for nothing.
Bobby would never come out and publicly trash a coach or player. He’s old school and high character. If only his influence extended to the rest of the team.
Rob, do you think that very strange USC interview Pete gave in 2021 when they had a coaching vacancy is also a clue that fits in this current puzzle?
Yes
Can you say more about this? I think I found the right LA Times interview from October 2021. Are you referring to the analogy that the LOB-era is a tough act to follow, or something else?
It was an outside the norm interview and just happened to coincide with USC having an opening at the coaching job. General consensus is it might have been a trial balloon to see if USC brass was interesting in bringing him home without him having to ring them himself.
After how and why PC left USC I have to wonder if the always influential alumni would be in 2 camps. One lovin’ it and the other hating it. The USC brass knows who butters the bread.
Something left out of the article is the influence of John Schneider. Presuming that Pete does want to leave town before tackling a much deeper roster cleanse and rebuild, shouldn’t John’s opinion on where the franchise goes next be considered? I know it’s easy for many of us (self included) to cynically expect the worst and most absurd possibilities where this floundering franchise is concerned but Pete agreeing to leave only under the condition that HE select his own successor is pretty high on the list of “Ideas I Wasn’t Yet Ready to Hate.”
If John stays beyond Pete’s tenure and isn’t given the heavy sway into the direction the team goes with its next HC, I think he’d also feel the need to land elsewhere. Finally getting out of Pete’s shadow and getting saddled with a HC that may not be his first choice? Why stay? John’s also got enough on his CV to be a quick hire if he left.
This is all presuming John wouldn’t prefer Quinn. Maybe he would. But still, a move like this would be simply preserving Pete’s legacy by ensuring his coaching tree survives rather than making an honest effort to hire the best HC candidate available.
Schneider has worked with very few head coaches by my count:
Holmgren (x2)
Schottenheimer (x2)
Mike Sherman
Mike McCarthy
Pete Carroll
That is in a 30+ year career. 3 offensive minded coaches and 2 defensive minded.
Much at the way that I suspect that Schneider is chomping at the bit to select his QB, again(!), I suspect that he would love to opportunity to pick his Head Coach.
Schneider is one of the most highly compensated GMs, he commands huge respect around the league, he is climbing the GM Mount Rushmore, what else does he want to accomplish, does he have a yellow jacket in his future?
Schneider is about the same age as me, so impute some biased thinking…his son Ben is now an adult, he is starting to think about grandchildren, about his legacy, about retirement, about the community that his children grew up in. What would it mean for Schneider’s legacy if he picked Ewers and paired him with Ben Johnson and it was a Holmgren/Favre type tear? He saw how that cemented Ron Wolf’s legacy. Schneider can do his job for another 20 years… and retire at about the same age Carroll is now. Add 20 more years of winning seasons and a couple more Super Bowls? He is an instant Canton member, Ring of Honor, never has to pay for a drink in Seattle…..
We may all want the next HC to be the right one, but Schneider, more than anyone wants to get it right, I’d bet a ham sandwich on that.
Jim Nagy with Ryan Fowler on X Spaces (and apparently anyone can listen) at 6PM EST on the 2024 Senior Bowl.
https://x.com/TheDraftNetwork/status/1735398122870931592?s=20
No surprise but Staley fired by the Chargers today
I stopped watching that embarrassment before the end of the first quarter and tuned in to season two of Jack Reacher. They were promoting during the game. I watched it INSTEAD of the game.
I watched the Kraken score a touchdown against Chicago.
I’m waiting for more episodes to drop before starting it. Rewatched season 1 a few weeks ago.
Jumped back into Ted Lasso again to fill the void.
I quit at halftime and also switched over to Reacher
Binged all 3 episodes too
OLB coach Giff Smith named the Interim HC. Maybe this will be a chance to see if OC Kellen Moore was handcuffed by Staley, but it will be hard to tell with Herbert done for the year.
BTW, this woke me up yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDDgoU-fMCA
I’ve always felt like McVay tricked the Hawks a bit in the Waldron hire. All the “McVay was so upset to lose him” type talk sounded like “[enhanced sarcasm voice] oh no not my brightest coach, please don’t take him from me, division rival, please”. So I’m wary of any in-division hires.
Dickerson seems to be doing alright
Interesting article over on the Athletic on Jeff Ulbrich being a HC candidate. Obviously another defensive coach, but he seems like dude who could be a good HC in the NFL. Will certainly have the players respect!
It’s behind a paywall, but article is here:
https://theathletic.com/5137323/2023/12/15/jeff-ulbrich-jets-defensive-coordinator/
Cardinals poach Tyreke Smith off the PS.
https://www.seahawks.com/news/seahawks-sign-de-hamilcar-rashed-to-practice-squad
I was just thinking about him, as he’s the only ‘current’ dead money on the books for next year.
It just feels lame that Frank Clark is still on the roster while we let Tyreke get poached. For what really? That just seems like roster mismanagement…
I’m a very pragmatic person to the point that some would say it’s my greatest weakness. But here’s my pragmatic view.
Pete has no real reason to retire and 25,000,000 reasons (assuming he makes around $12.5m per year) to stay. He solidly believes his legacy is already set, his spot in the ring of honor reserved, and his gold jacket already tailored. Why leave now? He already has plenty of time with his family and no doubt would still want some sort of job. That $800k analyst spot with Fox or $50k per speaking engagement is always going to be there. He’s never again going to have a chance to make $25m in two years and it’s not like he’s looking forward to just sitting in a lounger poolside. I think he would much rather be fired and collect his $25m than walk away and leave it on the table. Plus he thrives on all the fanboys posting vids of him throwing footballs and marveling at his “agelessness”.
Jody has no idea what she’s doing nor should she be expected to. She sees Pete as the last pillar of her brother’s football empire and firing him would be a bit like firing her brother. Maybe losing $25m is not a big deal for the franchise as a whole, but pulling the trigger on a decision like that- even if JS urged her to- is likely asking her to be more of a “shot caller” than a “fund manager”. We have no reason to believe she has the faculties- nor desire- to be a real “shot caller”. She’s just along for the ride.
Functionally, very little for the franchise’s values or future is going to change with or without Pete from Jody’s vantage point. Jerseys will sell (another ‘throwback game’, anyone??), butts will be in seats, commercial time will be sold. Who the coach is- or the players, for that matter- means not one tiny bit in the big picture. None of that moves the needle on whether the franchise sells for $5B or $5.5B or $6B. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but she really doesn’t care what the fanbase thinks because it really doesn’t change the outcome of what she is charged with doing.
Buckle up for a couple more years. Until there is an owner that cares about the product itself, it will continue on in autopilot mode since it doesn’t really matter who is in the pilot, copilot, and navigator seats.
I’m not positive, but I believe his contract is guaranteed absent some malfeasance.
We honestly have no idea what Jody Allen is going to do. Personally, I think that since her brother loved the team so much, why would she let it decay? He cared about it and it’s success so continuing that route and caring for it is what she would do. People like that aren’t looking at jersey sales as a measure of success. The product matters so why put out an embarrassing product and make her look bad, as well as tarnish Paul’s legacy.
She already allowed power to go from Pete to John on the draft. We just assume that it will be business as usual like the Blazers, but Paul treated both teams differently.
And Pete has his money. He clearly isn’t thinking that all is well and he can have things continue on. We’ve seen that this week. He’s mad about what they have done and who he has around him. Doesn’t sound like he is coasting onward. He very well could bow out. He was thinking about it a few years ago.
Too many assumptions for such a critical week where surprising information is leaking out.
Well, why does anyone ever retire then with years on a contract? Based on your thinking, do you know that Chris Peterson is no longer the coach at UW?
I’d flip it the other way. This is a man who is a multi, multi millionaire. He has more money than generations of his family will ever need. In all likelihood, he hasn’t spent enough time with his family over the last 20-30 years. He’s also 73 next year. Human beings are not machines that can just keep going. He might’ve had enough. He looks like he has.
On top of that, there are all sorts of golden handshake agreements that can occur when you part ways. So this idea of Carroll miserably clinging on just to pocket a big salary doesn’t feel that pragmatic or realistic at all.
We have no idea how much she knows what she’s doing or what her relationship is to Pete. If she moves on from Pete, she won’t be sat in a room on her own working the controls. I’m pretty sure John Schneider would be front and certain of a coaching search. Therefore, she wouldn’t have to do much at all.
I don’t know why people think Jody wouldn’t pay off Carroll when she literally ate tens of millions of dead money on Russell Wilson’s contract either.
You have absolutely no idea how she thinks. This isn’t pragmatic, it’s just presumptive.
Your message isn’t very pragmatic at all. It’s classic worst case scenario fantasy.
I think the Russell Wilson trade, even in Pete and John brought it to Jody, is indicative that she isn’t completely risk adverse or something.
I’ve harped a bit on this, but Jody’s lack of public comment is leaving a vacuum to fill with all sorts of speculation. Appreciate you pushing back.
100% agree Ben
I push back on the HOF coaching career. Pete’s had a good long tenure. Only one ring. A lot of wins. Not a remarkable amount.
Not sure he invented anything of note like a Coryell. Not a strong coaching tree.
He’s a great coach. I’m pretty confident he’ll be a third round selection type. Not 100% confident. Just mostly so.
Assuming Pete doesn’t want to leave, what are the chances Jody stays the course regardless of the season finish while instituting some parameters to protect the team in 2025 and beyond (clean up the cap space and don’t trade any future draft capital away)?
I think Quinn might be the only person we can get for 2024 given the state of the franchise unless we finish 6-11 and have a whiff of a top-10 draft pick. Fast starts are becoming ever more crucial in the NFL with head coaching hires so I kind of wonder that rather than making a move for a new HC this offseason or committing to Carroll for next year, hopefully someone looks out for the franchise and just tells Pete,
“You want to stick around? Fine. But you made this mess, now you have to lie in it. If you want to churn the roster, you’re going to have to do it like 2010. No trades that weaken future capital. No dead money past 2025. Get to work.”
*or committing to Carroll PAST next year (through 2025)
I don’t think it’d be an issue to get someone in. I think the core is good enough for someone to lead a positive rebuilding year. Like what 2022 looked like, maybe not with playoffs, but plenty of positive momentum by year end.
There’s been far worse situations to come into. Not to mention, the cap isn’t great, but it’s hardly disastrous if you aren’t trying to max out the roster in year 1.
Oh boy.. looking at the chargers current situation.. they were beat down TNF.. Fired their coach and gm.. theyre projected 34 million over the cap next year.. owe khalil mack and keenan allen huge salaries next year..
Kinda sounds familiar.. something big needs to change for the hawks next year.. someone needs to be accountable for this poor money management and losing record..
I heard on KJR while driving today that Will Rodgers has committed to UW.
It’s sad that the team seems to be coming apart…sigh…Man, the damage a few trades can do to a franchise is astounding.
With the success of Jake Browning, does that make you wonder at all about which quarterbacks the Seahawks could plausibly sign next year? Any backup qbs they like to maybe start? I gues you could say Browning is still in a bit of a Honeymoon stage like Kyle Allen was a few years ago, but it makes me wonder.
I’d probably resign Lock.
On top of everything you said, it’s sad that Pete supporters keep defending him and actually think he’s gonna run it back. Smh