Assessing cornerbacks using their short shuttle times

The short shuttle tests lateral quickness, explosion in short areas, body control and the ability to change direction quickly. We’ve talked about how important it appears to be for linebackers — but what about cornerbacks?

In this visual demonstration of the drill, Mike Mayock states:

“It’s important for literally every position. Why? For the little guys it’s obvious. Quickness, acceleration, change of direction. How about the big guys? Can they bend? Are you a natural bender or are you a heavy-legged waist bender? A great time for a defensive back is a 4.2.”

If a great time is a 4.2, it’s fair to assume anything quicker than a 4.00 is exceptional.

Since 2010, only four CB’s have run a sub-4.00 short shuttle and measured with 32 inch arms (Seattle’s apparent cut-off):

2017 — Kevin King (3.89)
2016 — DeAndre Elliott (3.94)
2015 — Byron Jones (3.94), Tye Smith (3.96)
2010-2014 — No qualifiers

It’s interesting that of the four names above, one could easily be Seattle’s pick at #26 (Kevin King), one was drafted by the Seahawks (Tye Smith), one was signed as an UDFA and kept on the roster (DeAndre Elliott) and the other was an athletic freak unavailable to the Seahawks because they traded their 2015 first round pick to New Orleans for Jimmy Graham.

It’s an indicator that an exceptional short shuttle on a lengthy cornerback is something the Seahawks find particularly appealing.

It’s not, however, a binding indicator. Byron Maxwell ran a 4.49 and Tharold Simon managed only a 4.31. So a mediocre short shuttle won’t necessarily take you off Seattle’s board. A good time, however, could increase their interest.

Here are the short shuttle times for drafted/UDFA cornerbacks in Seattle:

DeAndre Elliott — 3.94
Tye Smith — 3.96
Jeremy Lane — 4.14
Deshawn Shead — 4.23
Brandon Browner — 4.24
Richard Sherman — 4.29
Tharold Simon — 4.31
Byron Maxwell — 4.49

Here are the short shuttle times for select 2017 prospects:

Kevin King — 3.89
Quincy Wilson — 4.02
Budda Baker — 4.08
Fabian Moreau — 4.12
Jamal Adams — 4.13
Ahkello Witherspoon — 4.13
Chidobe Awuzie — 4.14
Shaq Griffin — 4.14
Gareon Conley — 4.18
Shalom Luani — 4.21
Rasul Douglas — 4.26
Sidney Jones — 4.28
Cordrea Tankersley — 4.32
Tre’Davious White — 4.32

Several prospects didn’t run a short shuttle, including Adoree’ Jackson, Marlon Humphrey, Marshon Lattimore, Obi Melifonwu, Teez Tabor and Marquez White.

Considering Mayock’s assertion that a 4.2 is a good time for a defensive back, those are some seriously impressive numbers.

For a bigger cornerback, Quincy Wilson’s 4.02 is noteworthy. He didn’t have a really explosive workout (4.54 forty, 32 inch vertical, 9-10 broad) but for his size (6-1, 211lbs) he ran a superb short shuttle.

Shalom Luani nearly cracked a 4.1, highlighting why he’s quite an underrated prospect in this class.

Kevin King’s time looks even better placed alongside those of his peers. He’s a genuine freak athlete.

It’s also a good way to emphasise T.J. Watt’s extreme agility. Look at the list with Watt included:

Kevin King — 3.89
Quincy Wilson — 4.02
Budda Baker — 4.08
Fabian Moreau — 4.12
Jamal Adams — 4.13
T.J. Watt — 4.13
Ahkello Witherspoon — 4.13
Chidobe Awuzie — 4.14
Shaq Griffin — 4.14
Gareon Conley — 4.18
Shalom Luani — 4.21
Rasul Douglas — 4.26
Sidney Jones — 4.28
Cordrea Tankersley — 4.32
Tre’Davious White — 4.32

Again, Watt is 252lbs. Chidobe Awuzie and Budda Baker are 202lbs and 195lbs respectively.

Here’s what Mayock had to say about linebacker’s running the shuttle in his demonstration video:

“In the ’09 combine Clay Matthews, linebacker from USC, he ran a 4.18. Think about it. A linebacker running what is considered a great time for a defensive back and oh by the way, it was the identical time run the year before by Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie.”

Is this a good time to mention Watt’s 10-yard split (1.59) is also comparable to the DB class?

Obi Melifonwu — 1.51
Kevin King — 1.55
Ahkello Witherspoon — 1.55
Gareon Conley — 1.58
Sidney Jones — 1.59
Quincy Wilson — 1.59
Tre’Davious White — 1.60

Watt’s vertical jump (37 inches) and broad jump (10-8) would each rank at #6 among defensive backs if he’d gone through drills with the DB’s.

Tyus Bowser was right there with him too.

And one other thing I noticed when running through the three cone results from the combine — if you rank the DB’s and linebackers together, Bowser had the fifth fastest time and Watt the seventh. Despite the fact they’re carrying an extra 40-50lbs in weight:

Kevin King — 6.56
Brian Allen — 6.64
Gareon Conley — 6.68
Howard Wilson — 6.68
Tyus Bowser — 6.75
Marlon Humphrey — 6.75
T.J. Watt — 6.79

(I get it, enough already about Watt and Bowser)

The point is though — there are several really enticing prospects in this draft class that make a ton of sense for the Seahawks.

They should be able to land a defensive back or a linebacker they really like at #26 and the options in round two will be strong too.


  1. Scraps

    “Are you a natural bender or are you a heavy-legged waist bender?”

    I don’t know what this means.

    • Cysco

      A more flexible lineman will bend at the knees and keep his head and pad level up. This keeps their center of gravity lower, but still centered over their base. A less flexible one will bend at the waste, dropping his head and pads which causes them to get out of balance. .

      The agility drills show how well a lineman can get low to the ground without getting out of balance.

      • Naks

        To add to his point, some people appear to be low, simply by bending at your waist which actually causes back issues and can make you off balance because you are leaning forward. A good knee bend means you actually are lower.

        • Jujus

          To add to what everyone else said, some of this is achieved through core strength and training but alot of it will be based on Genetics. Where the muscles attach, the specific ratios of bone lengths in their body. Especially with taller guys the longer the torso is the less likely that the core strength will be superb. Ideally for a linemen of any kind you want a shorter femur length but still having longer legs. This will naturally give these specimen a stronger “power source” (Gluteus Maximus) and typically give them the best explosive profile.

          • Jujus

            With a stronger powersource they will be able to generate more force from a Lower position, Keeping the chest up – the core engaged and not being a belly bender. You may recall Cable talking about belly bending and Keeping the Glute level down. Its all connected to making a perfect specimen – not all athletic 6′ 3+ guys can cut it. Its a very specific profile that will equate to a All pro based on athleticism alone not even adding the mental part of the game.

            • Scraps

              Thank you, guys.

    • Rob Staton


    • Attyla the Hawk

      Nice work fellas!

    • Misfit74

      Classic Mayock-ism. 😀

  2. Coug1990

    I wonder if the Seahawks will trade down then to pick up a 4th or more likely 5th round pick?

    • Attyla the Hawk

      Not out of the realm of reason.

      I expect though that we won’t. We’ve done this in the past and one constant has been that we’ve only had 15 or so prospects we felt had a first round grade.

      This draft looks far deeper. Looks like first round grades will be more in the 35-40 range.

      We could still trade back. Particularly one of the 3rd round picks. Teams that may see coveted players still on the board at the end of day two. Seattle does like to minimize their movement (forwards or backwards). Generally this is based on their idea of pool of talent — where they may have 4-5 guys they like at a pick and if they move back 6-10 spots they’ll still likely get one of those players.

      Generally, we have only seen them move up for two reasons: One, an outlier talent drops unexpectedly close to their pick (Reed). Or two: They target one particular talent as a unique value upgrade (Lockett and perhaps Frank Clark).

      Otherwise, we’ve seen them move back for two reasons: One: They have a bunch of players they like and move back slightly to still cull from that list (Wagner or Kendricks). Or Two: They have one player they really like, but suspect they’ll be able to move back and still get him (Irvin and Richardson). Usually in the latter, they don’t move back far, and will tend to settle on picking him maybe a shade earlier than seemingly required so as to make sure they get him.

      In this case — it’s hard to know what we’ll do. I think there will be a pool of talents there at 26 that could warrant moving back 8 spots or so to still land one of them. I also think there will be talents there that could be deemed as players they really like that won’t be there at the top of R2. In this case, I think we have two competing forces that would normally direct our strategies in opposing fashion.

      And depending on how the draft flows, we could also see a third possibility. A player we didn’t expect to fall does fall within 4-5 picks of 26. So we could easily see 3 different scenarios that Seattle has shown have directed our draft selection strategies.

      Possibly a unique case for Seattle drafts.

  3. Trevor

    I think once again Rob with your research you have basically narrowed the pool of talent own to about 10 players who ill be Seattle targets in Rds #1 and 2. The only thing we never know is how the players do with the interviews and character opinion of the player from PC / JS.

    Based on your work seems to me the following 10 players are in play for Seattle in Rds #1 /2 depending on trades and who is available etc.

    Garrett Bolles
    Hassan Reddick
    Jared Davis
    Kevin King
    Obi Melinowfu
    TJ Watt
    Tyus Bowser
    Forrest Lamp
    Akhello Witherspoon
    Gareon Conley

    • Phil

      I would add Budda Baker to this list if it’s meant to be potential Rd. 1/2 picks.

      • Trevor

        Agreed not sure he meets the Hawks physical requirements but you would have to think they love his game and character. If they could get him in Rd#2 is would be awesome. Would love to see him and Earl flying around the Hawks secondary next year.

    • Ukhawk

      I like this list. For the first 2 rounds I also think we might need to add:



    • Rob Staton

      I think Cordrea Tankersley, Zach Cunningham, Budda Baker and a few others are in play too.

    • KD

      Hypothetically, if Bolles or Reddick were to fall past 20, would you consider using one of the 3rd round comps to move up? For Bolles, I would consider it, but probably not for Reddick if I saw Watt as comparable and likely available. I guess it just depends on how much I prioritize each position if i were PC or JS

      • Ukhawk

        I’d personally give up a 3rd to get either considering depth at safety & cb, getting a premier prospect esp at a challenging position is too good to pass up

        • Misfit74

          Agreed. Go and get your guy and we have the extra ammo to do it. Rare players are worth getting, especially at positions of extreme need or high priority, at least. Reddick and Bolles fit the criteria.

    • Darnell

      Maybe Takk too. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the Hawks liked Tim Williams.

      Unless Bolles, Lamp, or Ramzcyz fall to the Hawks I think ideally you’d like two from the group of Watt,Bowser,Takk, Obi, Budda, Conley, Q Wilson, King, Tankersley, J Evans, Witherspoon, Tre’Davious

  4. Trevor

    Rob do you find it surprising that the Hawks have not shot down the Sherm rumor? Or do you just think they have a policy to just not comment on rumors?

    I am really hoping they announce a Chancellor extension soon. Do you think they try to do this before the draft or wait until afterwards? How does his not being signed impact the Hawks 2107 draft strategy and do you think that is why they are doing so much work on Obi?

    • Sea Mode

      To be fair, JS did shoot down a similar question about Sherman at his combine press conference, and it’s not like they are going to organize an impromptu presser just to shoot down a media rumor IMO. Not saying they are for sure not willing to dealing him, but I kind of tend to take an “innocent until proven guilty” approach to rumors like that. (and even moreso when–true or not–they also happen to be prime clickbait material, like the Lynch out of retirement thing.)

      As for extensions, I imagine they just want to finish going after whatever FAs they are going to host before taking strides forward in extensions. No source on that or anything, it just seems to make sense that you would like to know the final cap number you have to work with before making decisions like that.

      • Trevor

        I am just really surprised Kam never got done the same time as Bennett. If they view him as a core piece going forward would you not want to get him done first then figure out what you have left fro free agency. That whole situation with Kam has been strange ever since the hold out.

    • Rob Staton

      I think it’s somewhat interesting that a national media member hasn’t thrown cold water on it. And connected local media members like Danny O’Neil are saying, ‘I’d trade Sherman’ instead of downplaying it.

      • Ishmael

        Have to at least suspect at this point that the Hawks wanted it leaked. Either as a way to try and put Sherman back in his box a little bit, or they genuinely are thinking about trading him New England-style.

        I’m not super keen on it, but the Hawks did feel a bit stale last year. You just had a feeling that things weren’t totally right.

        • Scraps

          But some media members may not like Sherman. They’ll play up rumors out of dislike, IMO. Schneider will be much more cautious.

          I would think any trade would have to be a clear win for the Seahawks. Sherman is an all-pro, at the height of his career (assuming the injury from last year clears up).

          • Ishmael

            Of course. And Lombardi, IMO, is one of those guys who has no love for the Hawks.

            Again this is just my opinion, but I suspect the Hawks leaked it for one reason or another. Rumours like that don’t tend to come out of nowhere, and if it had come from an outside source – ie. the Saints trying to tempt the Pats to do something about a Malcolm Butler deal, I suspect the Hawks – or one of their reps in the media would have come out and laughed it off.

            • Rob Staton

              I don’t see any reason for Lombardi to have any agenda against Seattle. In fact he praised the Pete Carroll appointment when many others didn’t in 2010.

    • DLep

      Regarding Kam, my guess is they have to be thinking about his future replacement already, whether an extension gets done or not. What I don’t have a good feel for is whether the thought is draft his eventual replacement, extend Kam, and then successor plays under Kam’s tutelage for a couple year before taking over? Or, whether there are difficulties in agreeing on extension terms which would mean draft successor for immediate replacement and perhaps deal Kam for compensation. I guess I tend to think the former, but, if Kam’s demands are not what the front office is willing to pay that would certainly tip things in the direction off the latter.

      • Volume12

        From what Tony Pauline is saying, Seattle is focusing a lot of their early draft work on safeties. So that might answer where his eventual replacement comes from even if its a few years down the line. Because to make this team? Better be able to play STs.

        As for Sherm? That would be a bigger loss than ET IMO. If you have a capable backup at FS you can disguise coverages or run more Cover 2.

        Another thing it says if in fact he is traded? They feel there’s corners in this class that can start day 1 outta the gate and it nails home the point that depending on the type of CB you draft, he can pick up this scheme and technique fairly early.

    • Hawksince77

      Our immediate reaction to the thought of trading Sherman would be how ludicrous, but it got me thinking. It’s ‘Win Forever’, not win next year. What if they look at 2017 as somewhat a transitional year, especially with the state of the offensive line. Who knows how long ET will play, given his reaction to his injury last year. And Kam’s future is up in the air, and he is aging as well.

      What if they see this year’s draft as an opportunity to recreate the LOB2? If they trade Sherm for a first round pick (just imagine if it’s NO at 11) they can draft Obi, King and probably Baker in the first two rounds. If they did get a high 1 for Sherm, they could trade down and get even more draft capital. Draft another two CBs later in the draft (say one in the third, one on day 3).

      Sure starting two rookie CBs in 2017 would hurt (unless they have someone else on the roster that can start, so only one rookie has to start) but ET and Kam should still be starting. By the next year they have a cheap, young, talented secondary again. In any case, they would still be competitive in 2017, after laying the groundwork for another 4-5 years of dominant defense.

      Also, with another year of seasoning, perhaps they can field a good offensive line in 2018.

      Anyway, something to consider.

  5. Naks

    Even moreso it feels like we trade down if our top guy isn’t there at 26 because there’s so many good options like you mentioned. Obi and bolles are getting so much good press that they could easily be gone. What would it take with trades up and down to get a high second/mid second? Then we could grab a watt/king/baker and a bowser/db that falls. That way we get 2 freaks instead of one

  6. CA

    Trade back if it’s there, otherwise snag your CB, a OT that’s fallen, or Watt/Bowser. We want as many picks between 26 and 40 as possible.

  7. Sea Mode

    Rumors heating up. First from Peter King, now from Rappoport too:


    2 tidbits on Marshawn Lynch: 1. Source on un-retiring says it’s “realer than it’s ever been” … 2. It’s #Raiders or bust. #BeastMode

    7:51 AM – 20 Mar 2017

    Might he be trying to keep them from leaving Oakland?

  8. Sea Mode

    “(I get it, enough already about Watt and Bowser)”

    Gotta be honest, it did flash through my mind once or twice. 😉

    But hey, I’m guilty of the same thing (or worse) with Engram. Since the draft is such a moving puzzle with so many different options, I think we absolutely should keep highlighting what is special about certain prospects we like. It will make more people take a look at them and thus help us all learn more about the Seahawks options in the draft, which is what this blog is all about.

    Thanks for another great article!

    • Rob Staton

      The problem is, every time I get into the testing numbers for this really impressive DB class — the comparison in terms of explosion/agility to two guys weighing 40-50lbs more keeps hitting you right between the eyes.

      Hard not to keep mentioning it 🙂

      I’m a huge Engram fan too. Seems like such a long time ago that we were talking about him as a possible R1 target for Seattle at the start of the college season. In any other draft that would possibly be very much the case.

      • Misfit74

        I like what you did with this article. It really shows how special of athletes you’ve been honing in on for us at CB or LB and just how special of an athlete Watt is. Though perhaps not fully developed, that’s perhaps the only reason a versatile athlete like Watt has a chance to be there at 26~. I’m coming around on him as a truly valid option as our first pick.

        I’m still really hoping for a DB just to feel at ease – and because I love King and Melifonwu – and it seems one of the top corners could well make it to our pick.

        King / (other top CB?)

        I’m warming up to any/all of those guys. Ramczyk is a wildcard still, I suppose. I hope Cam Robinson isn’t even in the deck. I’d draft Corey Davis in almost any other situation.

        Some 2nd and later WRs I’d like are Godwin, Henderson, Zamora, Z. Jones, R. Davis

        • Misfit74

          If we drafted purely on priority of ‘need’, in a vacuum at 26, who is first?

          1. King / top CB (CB2)
          1a.Bolles (future/present LT)
          2. Reddick (LB3/DE) more versatility, pass rush)
          3. TJ Watt / J. Davis / Z. Cunningham (LB3)
          4. Melifonwu (S3/LB3/Big Slot)

          Tough to determine just who has the most value. It’s a close race. I think Obi could be as high as 1! I just think that CB2 spot stands out as most glaring, along with LT being still an unknown.

          • Phil

            It’s tough to determine “need” when we don’t really know what’s happening with Sherm and Kam. If either, or both, don’t fit the Seahawks’ future plans, then drafting their replacements becomes primary. If it looks like they are willing to stay at the right price, then a LB becomes primary. We are watching the first moves in a very complicated chess match and it’s tough to see the end game at this point in time.

            I am very wary of spending a 1st round pick on the OL. As Rob has written in the past, there have been lots of busts picking highly touted OLers. IMHO, using FA is the way to go where you have a much clearer view of a guy’s actual performance in a pro-style NFL -caliber offense.

            • Robert

              And what do they think they have with Elliot?

      • Ukhawk

        Great insight on Watt /Bowser, yet again before any national media are on it. If we know our Hawks, theyll be all over freakish prospects

        • Misfit74

          Freakish projects by position, I wonder?

          Garrett, S. Thomas
          Reddick, Watt
          King, Obi, Lattimore
          Fournette, Mixon
          Ross, R. Davis, I. Zamora
          OJ Howard, Njoku
          Bolles, Lamp

  9. EP

    Sounds like we take Watt in the first round and get a hybrid Edge rusher/Linebacker/ Corner back. With the right weight that guy can play anywhere.

    • Rob Staton

      I genuinely think they will go DB first unless there’s an unexpected rush from #16-24 and all the preferable options go (would be surprising IMO). But if Watt and Bowser are there in the 40’s, consider moving up.

      • EP

        Agree it’s just interesting how physically gifted Watt appears to be. Someone’s obviously doing something right in the Watt household

        • Ishmael

          Ginormous hands, explosive athleticism, probablyy don’t want to look too closely at his jaw.

  10. lil'stink

    New videos of Josh Jones and Tyus Bowser over on Draft Breakdown for anyone who has time on their hands today. I thought Jones looked somewhat disappointing.

    • Reggie Regg

      Agreed I watched his tape vs. Miami…. he looked terrible! I only watched because Jared Stanger claimed he was better than Obi. Had to see for myself. He’s a bum.

      • Rob Staton

        Jared collects narratives and then doesn’t back down.

        • East Side Stevie

          Jared is Jared man

          • Rob Staton

            He certainly is.

            • Jujus

              His podcast ended with the sentence “Let us know your thoughts and comments, we would love to hear them” or something like that. I laughed for an entire minute, Yeah express your thoughts so he can block you. Makes sense he only gets like 2 favs on his tweets. He is the epitome of the Echo Chamber of twitter.

              sometimes I wish my seahawks were somewhere less surrounded by soft skinned babies… o well. At least I have SHDB and one of my favorite Brits in Rob.

              • Rob Staton

                And FWIW

                Josh Jones is not better than Obi Melifonwu.

                • Reggie Regg


              • John_s

                I think it’s funny that Stanger retweets his old tweets to say I told you so.

                IMO. There’s Rob then there’s everyone else. No one is as thorough as Rob. Love it man!

                • Bayahawk

                  It is pretty fascinating. The guy posted something once about thin-skinned Hawks fans and I agreed by posting an example. He replied “Why don’t you STFU?” And that kind of attitude is exactly why when he posts articles, no one comments.

                  Rob is polite, genuine and respectful and has built the single best Seahawks on-line community. Humility goes a long way. I hope Rob goes into the Hawks blog-o-sphere ROH a few years from now.

                • Jordan

                  THIS. Drives me nuts man. Glad I’m not the only one that feels this way. Though when you have Rob to compare him to its not even a little fair.

                  • Kenny Sloth


  11. Sea Mode

    Daniel Jeremiah- An examination of the draft’s O-line depth

    Projecting an O-line run in draft: Much has been made about the lack of elite offensive linemen in this year’s draft class. I don’t believe we will see a lineman drafted in the top 10, which is a very rare occurrence. However, I do believe we will see four of them come off the board in the first round. Western Kentucky’s Forrest Lamp is clearly the top interior offensive line prospect and I have him as the best linemen overall as well. I expect him to go in the top 20. Here are the three offensive tackles likely to land in the first round: Garett Bolles (Utah), Cam Robinson (Alabama) and Ryan Ramczyk (Wisconsin). We’ve spent the past few months discussing these four prospects, but we haven’t spent much time talking about the next tier of blockers.

    I think we will see a run on cornerbacks, safeties and tight ends in the early portion of the second round. However, I also think we could see a run on offensive linemen in the late portion of Round 2, into the early portion of Round 3. Here are some of the names I expect to land in that area of the draft: Indiana OG Dan Feeney, Miami (Ohio) OT Collin Buchanan, Temple OT Dion Dawkins, Western Michigan OT Taylor Moton, Troy OT Antonio Garcia, Ohio State C Pat Elflein, LSU C Ethan Pocic and Pitt OG Dorian Johnson.

    In a normal draft, I think you would see the majority of these players come off the board a round or two later. However, the lack of depth at the position could force some of these players up the board. Two players I really like just outside of this range: Kutztown OG Jordan Morgan and Utah OG Isaac Asiata. Both of these players are maulers and they get after it in the run game. Morgan played OT in college but he projects as a guard at the next level. Asiata collects more knockdowns than any other lineman I’ve studied this year. He can get out of control at times, but I love his demeanor.

    Robinson on the rise? As mentioned above, it is a three-player race to be the first offensive tackle off the board. In talking to coaches and scouts around the league, the name generating the most buzz is Alabama’s Cam Robinson. He’s not without faults on tape (he overextends too much and his balance is an issue at times) but he has outstanding size, length and power. He had a combine workout that was better than people expected, and he was very impressive in his team interviews. I won’t be surprised if he ends up being the first offensive tackle selected, landing between picks 15 and 20.

    • Rob Staton

      If anyone missed it, we discussed these comments by Jeremiah in this piece here:

    • EP

      Just read that article there for the first time. Found the bit at the end interesting in regard to the LSU linebackers. Not heard much about them in the lead up to the draft. Any thoughts on Kendall Beckwith and Duke Reilly being potential targets?

  12. YankinTa


    Have you seen Todd McShay’s 2017 NFL Mock Draft 3.0? 2 Questions for you.

    1) Your pick for Seahawks?
    2) What the actual Seahawks pick might be?

    1. Cleveland Browns
    Myles Garrett, DE, Texas A&M

    2. San Francisco 49ers
    Solomon Thomas, DE, Stanford

    3. Chicago Bears
    Jamal Adams, S, LSU

    4. Jacksonville Jaguars
    O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama

    5. Tennessee Titans (from Rams)
    Jonathan Allen, DL, Alabama

    6. New York Jets
    Marshon Lattimore, CB, Ohio State

    7. Los Angeles Chargers
    Malik Hooker, S, Ohio State

    8. Carolina Panthers
    Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU

    9. Cincinnati Bengals
    Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama

    10. Buffalo Bills
    Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan

    11. New Orleans Saints
    Derek Barnett, DE, Tennessee

    12. Cleveland Browns (from Eagles)

    13. Arizona Cardinals
    Tre’Davious White, CB, LSU

    14. Philadelphia Eagles (from Vikings)
    Christian McCaffrey, RB, Stanford

    15. Indianapolis Colts
    Forrest Lamp, G, Western Kentucky

    16. Baltimore Ravens
    John Ross, WR, Washington

    17. Washington Redskins
    Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State

    18. Tennessee Titans
    Mike Williams, WR, Clemson

    19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
    David Njoku, TE, Miami (Fla.)

    20. Denver Broncos
    Garett Bolles, OT, Utah

    21. Detroit Lions
    Charles Harris, DE/OLB, Missouri

    22. Miami Dolphins
    Haason Reddick, LB, Temple

    23. New York Giants
    Ryan Ramczyk, OT, Wisconsin

    24. Oakland Raiders
    Kevin King, CB, Washington

    25. Houston Texans
    Mitchell Trubisky, QB, North Carolina

    • Ukhawk

      Who went at 12?

      • Frans Geraedts

        I think they would trade back qnd i would agree. Then take one off watt, bowser,, obi, baker, davis.

    • Ed

      OJ Howard at 4, yikes.

      1. Obi
      2. Obi

      However, might want to trade back and still get Obi/Watt/Bowser/Evans/Davis and go Tankersly/Douglas in 2nd with a 3rd or 4th for the trade back.

    • Rawls1234

      Gareon Conley?

    • AlaskaHawk

      Walter Football has Garrett Bolles LT, falling to the Seahawks at #26 and Kevin King CB, at #58. I don’t think either one will fall that far, but with all the talent in the top of this draft, a legitimate argument could be made for the draft to break that way. Incidentally they had Denver taking John Ross, WR in the first instead of a left tackle.

  13. Ukhawk

    Obi, Watt or Davis. Maybe trade back if a team is after Watson

  14. Frans Geraedts

    Rob and others,

    Does anyone know how De Andre Elliot has developed since we drafted him? And how the coaches see him going forward? Could he be a serious contender for CB2? And would that change something with regard to the priority given to drafting a cb early?

    • Del tre

      Some feel that he might start. He was the one who took Sheads place outside in the divisional round so there is reason to believe the coaches see something special from him. The fact that he saw that playing time in the playoffs as a rookie has me hoping he makes that big year 2 step forward.

      • Frans Geraedts

        Thanks Del! That is food for thought.

        • Del tre

          Also the Seahawks system seems to take about a year to learn well enough to effectively utilize the technique. We could see a considerable jump in play and i suspect we will know if Elliot is going to be Tye Smith or Byron Maxwell fairly quickly once the preseason begins

      • BobbyK

        Thorpe started the game Shead missed and Elliott replaced Shead in the play-offs. I think they like Elliott, but not enough to count on him.

        • Del tre

          It remains to be seen if they actually believe in either of those guys, i think we might actually look to trade away a few of our corners if we draft more than one cb. Wouldn’t be surprised if after week 2 of the preseason we see someone like Lane shipped off for a third.

          • Ishmael

            Just had a quick look at snap counts – 97 for Thorpe, 29 for Elliot.

            Although for context Lane had 771, Shead had 919, and Sherman had 1054, so it’s much of a muchness.

          • Drew

            Anyone giving up a 3rd for Lane would be crazy. He had a bad year last year, a ton of mistakes, penalties and beat a lot. I think we’d be lucky to get a 4th.

            • Kenny Sloth

              I think yeah that’s probably his value, but not for the reasons you state.

              Lane had a much better year than most fans narratives would have you believe.

              Fans overvalue their own players and think half their team could net a second each.

              Trades like that don’t happen much

  15. Deryck

    Connecticut’s pro day is tomorrow. Hopefully Obi will run a shuttle and 3-cone there.

  16. New Guy

    Hopefully, he won’t.


    • Sea Mode


      • Cysco


        • Misfit74


  17. peter


  18. Darnell

    So, you’re saying draft Watt and convert him to corner 🙂

    • williambryan

      Lol. This does make me wonder if he’d be perfect in the Bruce Irvin role though. Irvin having been a safety in his past helped a ton and he pretty much never came off the field since he could cover and handle a zone.

      • Misfit74

        Bruce Irvin role, sub LB for Wagner/Wright, and eventually pushing Clark into an every down DE role as Avril and Bennett age, expire contracts. Defensive reload. Not rebuild.

    • Volume12

      Didn’t he work out at TE during his pro day too?

  19. Volume12

    VMAC visitors Xavier Coleman, CB, Portland St popped a 4.13 and Richmond S David Jones a 4.3 I believe.

    I like this Jones cat. Big, long, ball hawk. Plays the run very well. Led the country in INTs back in 2015 with 9.

    Definitely get the feeling Seattle is going to pull the trigger on one of these (not exclusive to just the 2 names mentioned) small school DBs in round 6-7.

    • lil'stink

      Both are intriguing players, Jones especially. They must really like Coleman to give him a VMAC visit – I wonder how many CB’s under 6′ they brought in for a visit.

    • Derron James

      I think they like Coleman

  20. nichansen01

    Brandon Williams, Seahawks TE, off to the colts. Oh well, although I honestly don’t remember him doing much last season.

    • Michael

      3rd sting and mostly used for his blocking ability. Don’t think we’ll miss him too terribly.

      • Sea Mode

        Brandon Williams was a huge part of special teams last year. 335 special teams snaps second most on team. But that can be replaced.

  21. southpaw360

    The more I read on Watt the more he would be my pick in round 1. No doubt about it. Get your CB in round 2. Watt sounds so enticing and exactly what we missed last year when Bruce Irvin went to Oakland. Watt all the way for me. No trade down. Just get him!

    • Sea Mode

      But the whole question is, do we really want another Bruce Irvin? Does PC want to put another LB on the field (SAM) or will they continue to go nickel some 70% of the time like last year? If so, then I find it hard to see us spending R1 pick on Watt.

      I get the agility numbers. I think he has a ton of upside and can become a great player in the NFL. But would he really see the field in Seattle? I thought we agreed that PC spoke about LB who could spell Bobby and KJ, not necessarily a SAM. Do we need to use that high of a pick on a backup for those two?

      Maybe that’s where the value is and it’s definitely a possiblity, but a guy like Melifonwu seems so much more probable to me at this point at 26 or after a trade back if JS thinks he will still be there. Then grab an Elijah Lee type with one of the R3 comps, or a Jimmie Gilbert in the late rounds who can learn behind the two LBs and give them a breather here and there.

      • Rob Staton

        My personal view is if they take Watt, it’s in R2 not R1. Either with their native pick (although unlikely he drops that far) or because they moved up. I think they might have to do that for Bowser or Watt.

        • Cysco

          I agree.

          I’m sure they’d love to have Watt, but not in the first. Obi is the obvious choice for me unless something crazy happens like Boles dropping.

          Go Safety in RD1, LB in RD2, OL/TE/WR/CB in RD3. Even if they can’t/don’t move up in round two, a quality LB should be available at their pick. It’s not often you get a shot at a freak athlete like Obi. If he’s there in round one, I think they grab him.

          • Rob Staton

            They might go Melifonwu, Tankersley to be honest. It’s one of many different possibilities.

            Linebacker in R3 (Biegel?).

            Not impossible.

        • RWIII

          I have seen a number of mock drafts with Watt going in the first round. Bucky Brooks in fact came out with his mock draft today. Brooks had Watt going to Atlanta as the 31st pick in this draft. In addition to Brooks; Daniel Jeremiah, Charley Casserly, Pete Priscol, Dane Brugler and Walter’s Football are projecting Watt going in the first round. I prefer Watt over Obi Melifonwu. But actually I think that Melifonwu fits what Pete Carroll wants to do with his defense. Not only does Melifonwu provide insurance in case Chancellor leaves or Earl Tomas retires after 2017. But for this year in a 4-2-5 defense having ET,Kam and Melifonwu out their at the same time. This would give Pete Carroll numerous options on defense. Opposing QBs would have a very difficult problem reading our defense.

          • Rob Staton

            Watt could go in R1, sure. I think he’s more likely to go in the 30’s or 40’s.

        • Ukhawk

          So I’m clear, you think Watt even goes in R2? With his numbers doesn’t he go in R1?

          • Rob Staton

            I think he could go in R1. I think in this class a fair projection for him is 30’s or 40’s. Not everyone can go in R1.

            • D-OZ


      • Cameron

        You don’t need to take Watt off the field in nickel though. He lines up at end and Mike Bennett and Frank Clark slide inside. Tell me that doesn’t sound enticing.

        • RWIII

          Cameron : I am good with either Melifonwu or Watt.

        • Sea Mode

          Could be, but I think Jefferson takes that interior spot alongside Bennett and Clark stays outside.

          I would be on board with Watt in R2 (trade up) if he is still there, but still prefer Obi/CB2 or Obi/Engram.

          • Drew

            Some of the best pass rushing Clark did last year was from the inside. Dude is phenomal with his strength and quickness going against slower interior lineman.

            • Kenny Sloth

              From the 1 tech no less!

  22. BobbyK

    I’d be thrilled if we could somehow snag Watt and King (or Obi).

    • Hawktalker #1


  23. Nick

    New TJ Watt tape:

    Couple of things I really liked:

    1. He is extremely good with gap discipline. On many occasions he held his ground and offered up lanes for the MLB to clean up.
    2. His motor is non-stop. Wisconsin was on the field a ton that game and he didn’t really show signs of fatigue.
    3. He is a disruptive pass rusher from the inside and outside.

    • CharlieTheUnicorn

      4. He has size 11 hands 😉

      • Greg Haugsven

        That’s like Mickey Mouse size.

    • Matt

      IMO, he’s the ideal pick at 26.

  24. JC

    Bucky Brooks had mocked Quincy Wilson to the Seahawks until his new mock today with Fabian Moreau. Neither would shock me with growing Moreau round 1 talk.

    • East Side Stevie

      Moreau sub 32 inch arms but I like him for me he is more of a Round 2 guy

      • Misfit74

        This. Maybe a round 1 guy for some teams, but the arms make it dubious for us.

      • peter

        I think he’s more of a round 3 guy. His combine was awesome for him but there are several of CB’s with better production INT’s/Passes defended/tackles by quite a large margin. Maybe he can play safety but the first and second round is kind of rare to pick guys who can transition from one spot to the other.

        Honestly I kind of think he’s just an athlete.

  25. red

    I have been seeing quite a few new mocks, anybody else noticed Demarcus Walker from Florida State? A couple months ago we all had this guy going top 20 now I don’t even see him in first and second round mocks. Hugely productive even if he put on 10-15lbs and becomes 3tech if he is there at 58 I would be happy taking him.

    • Rob Staton

      Problem for Demarcus is he has zero momentum. No Senior Bowl, no combine. Everything he did in 2016 is clouded now by, ‘where is this guy?’ and ‘what’s he hiding?’.

      • Kenny Sloth

        Jon Bullard 2.0?

        • Matt

          Bingo. A bit of a tweener whom Twitter loves and the NFL probably “likes.”

        • Rob Staton

          Bullard at least performed at the combine and his pro-day.

          Walker’s been MIA so far. No Senior Bowl. No combine.

          • Kenny Sloth

            Is he hurt? Are the character concerns I, personally, had previously written off actually present?

            • Rob Staton

              Not that I know of. Just a wall of silence.

      • nichansen01

        Yeah why didn’t he show up at the combine?

  26. Kenny Sloth

    DB round 1

    Trade our second and a third for an higher second and a fifth for maybe Watt??

  27. Vin

    It obviously takes two to tango, but is there a chance (or does it make any sense) to trade our #1 in 2018 for someone’s 2nd rounder (33-40)? I’ll admit, I know nothing of next years class, as far as potential strengths and/or depth. But from everything I’ve read from Rob, this seems like THE YEAR to have a plethora of picks. I can just imagine Obi @1, Watt @2A, CB @ 2B, OL/TE/Luani with the 3s and then depth/development. And then if we lose all these 1year contracts, along with maybe some of the bigger names like Graham or Kam to FA, then we potentially reload again in 2019 with comps.

    I love and hate that Rob has brought up all these talents because I’m excited for them to be potential Seahawks, yet I know that most of them won’t. Screw it, just draft Obi, King, Watt and Luani and I’m set. Thanks Rob. Go Hawks

    • BobbyK

      If they did do that – I would hope they use one of their 3rd round picks and trade for something next year (especially since they won’t be getting any comp. picks). For example, they should be able to find a taker for a situation similar to the Jefferson deal last year. That happens lots of times most years (Hawks traded up into the 5th round last year and sent a future 4th round pick to do so). That means the Hawks could trade a 3 this year for a 4 this year and then a 3rd rounder in ’18. That would slightly ease the burden of noting having a #1 pick next year if they were to trade it for a guy like Obi or Watt in the early second.

      Big problem is if Wilson tears an ACL early and they finish 7-9. That’s a top 15 pick. Is it worth it? Especially since that pick could be used to trade down for additional players/picks. I’m generally not in favor of trading #1 picks, but there’s always exceptions to the rule. They could do everything above and take Sidney Jones in the 2nd (after getting a King/Watt combo in the first and early second). That would be like having an extra 1st round pick next year, since Jones won’t play this year (and is a top 15 talent) but will be ready in ’18.

    • HawkTalker #1

      I have been wondering the same thing myself.

    • Ishmael


      What happens if Wilson breaks his leg, Earl gets injured and retires, Sherman throws another tantrum and gets traded, and Kam decides he feels like still being able to walk when he’s 40 and packs it in as well? Ridiculously extreme hypothetical, obviously, but it does highlight the danger of trading away future picks.

      It’s such an enormous risk that it’s very, very, rarely worth it.

      • Schuemansky

        I wouldn’t see it as an “enormous” risk. Let’s look at the probabilities of not going to the postseason. With the actual state of our division it would have to take a season-ending injury to RW within week 6.
        And maybe even then they find a way to get by in their division. So what are the probabilities for such a case? For me definitely less then 10%.
        So for me it would be well worth taking that risk.

      • Schuemansky

        And BTW. 7-9 would probably be enough to win the division as well this year and getting us to pick in the 20’s again.

  28. Matt

    Great stuff…reinforces my guess that Watt is the guy at 26, followed by an aggressive trade up for Akhello Witherspoon, who is a bonafide CB (basically Kevin King w/ slightly less athleticism and fanfare).

    Reload the LOB with a bonafide perimeter defender in Witherspoon.
    Upgrade the pass rush and SAM with Watt, who can eventually become the (next generation) face of the Seahawks defense.

    It’s pivotal that we get 2 strong, first year contributors in this draft. IMO, Watt-Witherspoon is the easiest, most realistic way to make this happen. Also, they both have great athletic profiles and production to back it up.

    Get back to tough, in your face defense. Run the rock. Become the Seahawks (again).

  29. Matt


    Seahawks draft Gareon Conley at 26.

    Pick 38 rolls around and TJ Watt is on the board and let’s assume he and Bowser are expected to be gone by pick 50:

    A. Are you willing to deal a 2018 1st rounder to get him? If not, how much are you willing to trade?


    B. Do you think the Seahawks are willing to make a major trade (not involving a 2018 1st rounder) to get him? Let’s say 2 and two 3s (with let’s say a 5th coming back).

    Curious to your thoughts.

    • Hughz

      They won’t give up a future first rounder because it’s an unknown asset. Who knows it could be a top 5 pick.

    • CHawk Talker Eric

      Moving up from 58 to 38 would cost 2 of their 3 R3 picks. And if it’s just the two comp picks you might need to throw in their R6 pick too.

      The more likely scenario is what they did last year – modest trade down from their first pick, then a trade up for their second one for two picks in the top 50.

    • Rob Staton

      No, I would never personally deal a future R1. I need to know the value of a pick before trading up.

      I think Seattle would be willing to do what they did last year. Trade down from #56 and then trade up in R2.

      • Sea Mode

        Please allow me to toss out for consideration a different view on (not) trading future R1s.

        You have given some strong reasons against trading it away, mainly because we don’t know yet what its value will be. While that is valid, I think we’ve got to keep it in perspective.

        It is certainly possible Wilson gets hurt, but a top 5 pick, even a top 15 pick is still rather unlikely. The example is always Dallas last year getting the #4. But they are a team with a weak defense that relies on their offense to score 30 pts a game to win. Our defense keeps us in most games, even with Boykin or some other vet signing at QB we still have a good shot to win a decent number of them. And we still very possibly take our weak division, which puts us in the playoffs and out of the top 20 anyway.

        And all that is just a remote “if”. Far more likely is that we once again pick around our average spot over the last 5 years: pick 28.

        If that might allow us to take King in R1 and Obi in early R2, in my mind it is totally worth it. There likely won’t be guys like them in next year’s draft, and if there are, they will be top 20 picks anyway, not late R1-early R2 like this year because of a crazy deep DB class. Look at it this way: even in the unlikely event that we did end up with a top 15 pick next year, King is likely a top 15 prospect in next year’s class anyway, so the value matches.

        As for the point others have made of a hole popping up–“what if Kam/Sherm/Earl move on and we need to replace them?”–what better way could we hope to begin addressing that than King + Obi?

        Now, JS has not done it before, so it remains unlikely. The R1 trades have always been in the same year and for proven talent or more draft compensation that year. But it could be argued that they didn’t see that kind of talent available to them anyway, whereas this year there appear to be not just one, but multiple R1 Seahawky talents.

        If there were ever a year to do it, this would be this year IMO.

        In the end, what I’m trying to say is that I don’t think it really depends as much at all on a fear of RW injury + bombing season + losing high pick, but rather on the talent available matching the value of our R1 pick.

        In past years, they showed they didn’t think the available prospects were worthy (or rare, near perfect, Seahawky fits) of the R1 pick, and so they found more value trading down or trading away. By that same logic, if there are multiple players available this year that they do deem worthy and exceptional fits for the team, then they would consider trading up, perhaps even at the cost of a future pick.

        With the condition that the extra player we would be acquiring this year is R1 quality on the Seahawks board, then laying out a rough estimate of probability, I see something like this:

        75%- RW doesn’t get seriously injured, we make a post-season run like last 5 yrs: we would get a R1 value player for pick 25-32.

        10%-RW season-ending injury in 2nd half of season, already won enough games to easily close out division title with a backup QB: we get R1 player for pick 20-25.

        10%- RW season-ending injury in 1st half of season, our defense keeps us in enough games to still win our weak division and make the playoffs: we get R1 player for pick 20-25.

        4%- RW season-ending injury in 1st half of season, our defense still wins us a few games even though we don’t make the playoffs: we get R1 player for pick 10-20.

        1%- RW season-ending injury in 1st half of season, our defense totally disappears: we get R1 player for top 10 pick.

        0.00000000001%- RW season-ending injury in 1st half of season, our defense totally disappears, locker room blows up and rebels against coaches, entire LOB decides to hold out, team plane crashes or something, the Browns win games: we get R1 player for top 5 pick.

        So, basically:
        95% chance we get equal or even better value for next year’s R1 pick.
        4% chance we get slightly less value.
        1% chance we get significantly less value.

        In my mind, that just might be a chance worth taking for the right player. Thanks for reading.

        • CHawk Talker Eric

          Sea Mode I appreciate the argument you make and the length you go to make it, and I respect your passion and desire to make the Seahawks as competitive as possible, now, this year. But I read a lot of “what if” in there. Odds aside, all it takes is one unfortunate play in an entire season to sideline RW and alter the team’s fortune dramatically. If that unfortunate play were to come early in the year, you could be looking at a top 10 pick. And there’s just no way of knowing that in April.

          Rob’s logic is as sound as it gets: don’t trade a pick unless you know its value.

          • CHawk Talker Eric

            Hit reply too soon. Wanted to add: teams that trade future picks end up like LAR or WAS. Perennial basement dwellers. It’s taken 5 seasons for WAS to recover from their draft fiasco (and even then they haven’t really made it back). And we all know what the Rams are about, season after season after season.

            • DJ 1/2 Way (Sea/PDX)

              I am with Sea mode on this. The math is good, the special players are there. It all depends on the FO and Pete. Do they want to run 70% nickle? How do they see Obi playing? What else are they thinking?

              I do not think Obi replaces Kam. He is a different player, and does not put fear in the offense. Obi does not replace ET, although I think that is more likely than replacing Kam. I think he is a nickle and worth a first or second round pick.

              I also think you only trade next years first for a starter or a game changer we can not get with our first or second round pick. If they see Obi that way then do it. If they see that for a TE, RB or LB then do it. If they use their first on Bolles or Reddick and want an early second to pick Kevin King then do it. Then use your own second on another important addition.

              Remember, the top ten pick in round one means a top ten pick in every round. Losing that top ten pick is like shifting every pick down 10-15 (from the normal late twenties). So, if we trade next years first and then suck, we still have high picks in every other round.

              It has been mentioned, but the other reason not to trade a first round pick is the damper it would put on this community. Would the traffic and interest be halved? Do some math on that, Sea mode!

        • schuemansky

          You wrote exactly what I am thinking for some time now. The probabilities are right IMO and the resulting 2018 R1 pick will be in the twenties, hopefully thirties almost (as you said 95%) certainly.
          Secondary picks need time to become starters in Seattle – another reason to get them a year earlier.

        • cha

          “The R1 trades have always been in the same year and for proven talent or more draft compensation that year.”

          That’s where I really struggle with the idea of trading a future first rounder. Trading for proven talent is one thing. Trading for a guy you want in the draft is a whole other animal. You’d better be absolutely over the moon about the guy, and your coaching & talent evaluation staff agree with the move. It would probably need to be a quick contributing player as well, not a development project.

          The way the Hawks got Earl Thomas is the ultimate example to point to. Denver was so enamored with 5’9″ corner Alphonso Smith they traded the Hawks what turned out to be #14 overall to get the guy. Smith was off the roster after one season and that didn’t help the Broncos get over their struggles.

          • Sea Mode

            “you’d better be absolutely over the moon about the guy”

            What you need to be pretty sure of is that the guy you are trading for is a type of player that in any other draft would not normally be available to you, but this year is.

            You’d essentially be saying: “the guy I can get in early round 2 this year is foreseeably much better for my team than one I should reasonably expect to get in late R1 next year.”

            • cha

              If you’ve got a crystal ball, sure.

              • Schuemansky

                Same crystal ball you would need to evaluate next year’s first round pick.

  30. RWIII

    Matt: That is a tough senario. Now you are down to 6 picks in the draft Unless you would trade your 3rd round pick and move down for more picks. The Hawks would still need a safety, a tackle, a defensive lineman plus a wide receiver.

    • Sea Mode

      Hello, UDFA…

      • peter

        Lots a lot of needs to pull out of the UDFA ranks to lose out on some pretty good 2nd tier players to draft Watt. Who even you noted astutely, that Seattle may not even be looking for a SAM if they are going to move to a 4-2-5.

        Definitely this team works the UDFA wires better than anyone so it’s possible.

  31. David Ashton

    Rob, I’ve seen a lot of mock drafts where Chidobe Awuzie is getting mocked in the first. What do you see in him and what you think of him as a potential option for hawks at 26?

    Also still seeing some 1st round grades for Tabor despite his slow 40. Thoughts?

    • Rob Staton

      I think he’s good enough to go R1. I don’t see Tabor in R1.

      I doubt Seattle considers Awuzie due to his arm length being sub-32 inches.

  32. CharlieTheUnicorn

    I’m trying to be realistic who could be available at each pick and where I think Seattle might need some help. I’ve taken a peak at a few mock drafts and I think they are all off… I might not be any better at “predict the hawk”, but if I get 2-3 right, I would be happy.

    Round 1: CB/SS Obi Melifonwu
    Round 2: LB Tyrus Bowser (Am I the only one who thinks of the old “boss” in Nintendo games?)
    Round 3.1: DT/DE Tanoh Kpassagnon
    Round 3.2: CB Ahkello Witherspoon
    Round 3.3*: RB/FB Samaje Perine (They take this guy after a slight trade down for an extra #5 or 6 pick)

    I also like Seattle to pick-up FS Shalom Luani later in the draft, but after round 3. Another guy that I think they could be very interested in would be OT Adam Bisnowaty… in the 4th round roughly. Perhaps he would be overkill, since they have 4-5 OT on the team now….

    • Misfit74

      Read this the other day. I don’t know much about Kpassagnon. (from

      “If we can get past Kpassagnon’s physical appearance – a shredded, 6-7, 289 pounds of muscle – the reality is that his athleticism doesn’t match the look, as the redshirt senior tested poorly across the board at the combine. Kpassagnon posted abysmal agility results, with a 7.46 three cone and a 20-yard shuttle of 4.62 seconds. That matches up with the lack of bend and flexibility you see in space and around the edge on tape.”

  33. EranUngar

    Is it just me or is Watt getting all the hype for his incredible numbers while Bowser is an afterthought after posting pretty similar numbers?

    The name recognition coupled with those unexpected numbers is propelling Watt higher in the national media and could leave Bowser 10-15 picks behind ready for us in the 2nd.

    • Forty20

      Watt is a far more polished prospect if you are looking for Day 1 production. Great hand usage when attacking the line. He has the gap discipline and edge setting ability that the Seahawks covet and there is potentially a chip on his shoulder about stepping out of his brother’s shadow. I could see Watt entering DROY conversations in a normal defensive draft class (which this year is anything but).

      Bowser isn’t nearly as refined in rusher the passer. Incredible raw prospect though and the fact that he might be available at our native second round pick might settle the issue.

      I do wonder though if Jarrad Davis is there at #26, do you pull the trigger with a thought towards plugging him in as the SAM and potentially LEO at a stretch? He tips the scales at 238 so the weight isn’t THAT far off and he has some serious vines for arms with 33.5″ limbs. He would need work coming off the edge but you couldn’t ask for a better backup (or succession plan) for Bobby or KJ. He would have to run the gauntlet through the Colts, Redskins, Lions and Dolphins for that to happen though…

      • Rob Staton

        Davis has to be considered IMO. The guy is a beast on and off the field. Insane character. Great athleticism and intensity. He can play any LB position. Just get him on the field.

        • Forty20

          Neatly sums up where I was heading towards Rob. The guy just screams Seahawk with his character. When you go to war on Sundays, Davis is the sort of guy you want standing next to you in the trenches.

          The post-Combine hysteria has seen him dropping to late in the second (!) across the net but with his tape and the way he conducts himself in interviews, teams would have to have a first round grade on him.

          I know we all get draft crushes every year but this draft feels like there are A LOT of prospects that you can’t help but get enamored with.

          • Sea Mode

            He and Reddick are the only ones who trump Obi for me right now.

            • Kenny Sloth


              For me Kevin King is a nice player, but I don’t know what his upside truly is.

              Not many comparable athletes to him at corner

          • peter

            Davis for me in many ways is the player I would like Seattle to get above anyone else. Just slightly. But still.

            And I’ve also wondered with his build (arm length) what he would do playing SAM for Seattle. Because Watt/Bowser/ then Willis (?) all have good production with TFL’s and Sacks none currently give you the versatility of Davis with his field speed, and skill to drop back into coverage. I’m speaking about current tape. Watt could probably learn that skill like Bowser could probably learn more rush moves.

            I know he’s lighter than Irvin and the Three I listed but if Seattle wanted to play more of that 3 down Irvin role I think Davis would have to absolutely be considered. Plus if there was an injury to Wright/Wagner you have a back up plan that’s light years better than what the team has been trying to trot out on the field.

            • Kenny Sloth

              I think KJ could move back to SAM to make better use of his length while allowing a player like Davis to play off-ball

    • Rob Staton

      Not here. We’ve talked about how similar Watt and Bowser are. The reason we mention Watt’s agility and not Bowser’s is because Bowser didn’t run a short shuttle.

      • EranUngar

        Yes, you have been talking about both. If you watch the comments, most talk about Watt.

        However, I was talking outside this wonderfull place. I have seen quite a few remarks about Watt coming out after the combine but none about Bowser.

        Since I share you view that DB is the most likely first pick (unless some unexpected talent drops…), I just hope that the Watt hype will possibly push Bowser back into range for us (see Reed…).

        • peter

          I’ll give you this though. Bowser did get injured last year and if he had played the whole season I think he would have had terrific numbers and would be generating more publicity. Not more pub than Watt but just more on his own.

          • Kenny Sloth

            I don’t think he’s anywhere the same prospect as Watt.

            They’re not even close to interchangeable.

            Narrative scouting is hell

          • dtrain

            I remember watching draftbreakdown tape of Bowser before the combine and I did not come away impressed. My notes said 3-4 WOLB or 4-3 raw SAM; late 3rd/early 4th. Looking at Bowser’s combine numbers, I had to go back to the tape to see what I missed. He has chase skills. He can bend a little. He does not set an edge well. He plays too high in the run game, instantly losing leverage and providing too much blocking surface. He is lost in coverage situations (they ask him to zone drop and he has a hard time identifying crossers and when he does, he chases receivers that cross his face not trusting the pass-off to the next dropper. Those things can be rectified at the next level with a ton of coaching and patience. What concerns me more than any of that, though, is his inefficiency of movement. He hustles, sure. But he rarely takes straight-line angles and wastes a ton of motion in pursuit. His speed at the next level only fits into scheme if he efficiently gets to the ball-carrier. This, more than anything, has the appearance of a player that lacks instincts. I wouldn’t draft that kind of guy in the 2nd round. I could see one of the late 3rds but I think the 3-4 teams would scoop him up as an OLB before a 4-3 team would take him as a SAM.

            • Kenny Sloth

              This is a very logical tape review.

              I think as you say he can be coached, but he’s nowhere near the prospect Watt shows to be

  34. Sea Mode


    Former #Ravens WR Kamar Aiken is expected to sign with the #Colts, source said. A forgotten man in Baltimore with a new home.

    4:57 AM – 21 Mar 2017

    • Misfit74

      1yr deal, good for his chances at rehabbing his value on a more volume passing offense. He clearly doesn’t want to win a Super Bowl this year 😉

  35. CHawk Talker Eric

    @PFF_Steve: Cal QB Davis Webb getting first round hype. Is it warranted?

    I certainly hope so. A modest trade down from 26 is the best chance SEA have of picking twice in the top 50 (and perhaps 4 times in the top 100) without compromising the rest of the draft.

    • Rob Staton

      Agreed. This is the best chance to trade down.

    • Ishmael

      He’s enormous, white, and a coaches son. He’ll be in the league for the next decade as a medicore backup getting paid 4 million a year to hold a clipboard. I sincerely hope someone trades up for him. [/hottake]

      • East Side Stevie

        Hopeffully he will follow in the footsteps of his former competition at Cal, Jared Goff. I pray Seattle has the luxury of trading down from 26 and getting to see the lucky GM make the big mistake of drafting webb at 26!

  36. Peanut

    I just hope Seattle have a draft like Atlanta has had the last 2 years. Grady Jarrett, Keanu Neal, Deion Jones and Vic Beasly to top it, wooof.

    • Ukhawk

      They could if they drafted higher up the board

    • DLep

      Yeah, it has helped they drafted so high those years and those are probably the type of guys that the Seahawks would draft if they were drafting earlier as well. That said, it does kind of feel like the last couple of years Seattle has drafted a slightly different flavor of guys and I hope this year they get back to and focus on the athletic freaks similar to Wagner and Irvin a few years ago.

      To be fair, Clark in 2015 and Ifedi in 2016 both fit that into that rare athlete/size mold (Clark was obviously a hit and Im still high on Ifedi I just think the game needs to slow down for him mentally so his athleticism can take over). But guys like Reed, Odhiambo, Vannett seem to fall outside of their previous tendency to draft ‘specimens’ and coach them up. Those three seem more like traditional, old school team type draft picks, the kind other teams would make that seem to give us an advantage by going in a different direction.

      There are so many ‘specimens’ in this draft that I really hope Seattle gets their share of explosive athletes with an alpha personality to match. Bolles, Reddick, Lamp, King, Obi, Davis, Watt, Bowser, Willis, Peppers all seem to fit that bill in the first two rounds. If we can get two out of that group I almost think the draft is a success by virtue of those picks alone.

  37. nichansen01

    Demarcus Walker did attend the combine, but didn’t participate in any drills besides the Bench Press (18 reps). He measured in to have 33 inch arms and to be 6’3 5/8 inches tall. He will work out at the FSU pro day, which is March 28th.

    • Hawktalker #1

      Great info – thanks!!

    • Trevor

      Was disappointed he did not go to Senior Bowl or Combine but still love his game tape. Really looking forward to seeing how he tests.

    • Kenny Sloth

      W H Y T H O

  38. Jason

    One of the positions I don’t think we have discussed much that I think needs to be addressed is WR. Best I can tell is we have Baldwin and Lockett signed after this year. I think the hawks will look to add a WR on day 2. I haven’t looked at a lot of tape, but the one that has caught my eye is Josh Reynolds from A&M.

    Thoughts? Anyone else you guys feel is worth checking out.

    • Rob Staton

      He is a distinct possibility in R3. There are 4-5 WR’s they might look at in R3. Zay Jones a possible R2 option.

      • Kenny Sloth


        Hard to scout for WR on this team

    • Sea Mode

      Here are those that qualify for the Seahawks historical athletic profile at WR, as provided by JT:

      5’10+. 115+ pSparq*. 4.50 dash*. 7.05 3-cone*
      *with rare exceptions

      Robert Davis, Georgia State, 6030, 219, 33, 9.625, 4.44
      Quincy Adeboyojo, Mississippi, 6030, 197, 31.75, 9.375, 4.42
      Michael Rector, Stanford, 6000, 193, 32.5, 9.25, 4.42
      Chris Godwin, Penn State, 6010, 209, 31.625, 9.125, 4.42
      Jehu Chesson, Michigan, 6030, 204, 33.25, 9.125, 4.47
      Zay Jones, East Carolina, 6021, 201, 32.5, 9, 4.45
      Taywan Taylor, Western Kentucky, 5110, 203, 32.625, 9.25, 4.5
      Kenny Golladay, Northern Illinois, 6040, 218, 32, 9.75, 4.5

      Of these, I would see who has the best hands, route running, and blocking. Then decide if you are looking for a bigger or smaller type and what draft capital you think the Hawks would likely invest.

      Jehu Chesson is one that a lot of commenters have talked about (and I think Rob too a while back IIRC)

      Josh Reynolds meets all the criteria except he ran 4.52, so good eye. Could very well be in play if he excels in other areas.

      Remember we also have a big hands guy Kenny Lawler developing on the roster. Possibly Kearse’s replacement in a year or two. Plus McEvoy too as a big target.

      • DLep

        I really like Godwin and Taylor and would throw Zach Pascal, Fred Ross into that mix as well. The latter two another couple big body receivers that would seem to fill a current hole in our wr group.

      • Misfit74

        Zamora should test like a beast at his Pro Day

    • sdcoug

      I’ve posted about Reynolds several times. Sneaky big-time production in the SEC. Tops almost every leader-board amongst 3 yr players

  39. Steve Nelsen

    I break down the options for 26 like this:
    Seahawky players that meet need but are likely to be gone: Reddick, Bolles
    Seahawky players that meet need and are possible at 26: King, Obi, Davis, Watt
    Others that meet need but I don’t like at 26: Ramczyk, Robinson, Lamp

    Davis is a Day 1 starter in base. Watt fits in to the NASCAR package and OLB as a rookie. King competes with Elliott to start at RCB. Obi is a chess piece and potential Kam replacement.

    The offensive tackles available at 26 are potential busts and it is too early to draft a guard.

    Other Rd 2-3 potential defender picks: Bowser, Biegel, Sidney Jones (inj.), Cunnigham, Witherspoon, Tankersley, Baker

    There is so much there that I am almost hoping for 5 defenders in our first 5 picks.

    Is DeAndre Elliott the next DeShawn Shead? I have King at the top of my board at 26 but If the front office feels Elliott is ready to start, then Obi moves up.

    How desperate is Seattle to add more young offensive linemen? Do they pass on a potential pro-bowl defender at 26 to add a right tackle?

    How does the front office view the defensive line? We haven’t discussed many defensive linemen and Pete Carroll hasn’t said much more than, “we are always looking to add more pass rush.” Does that come from an Irvin type like we have discussed or do they see a DT or pure LEO worth drafting in Round 2-3?

    • Nick

      Where would you put Davis in the base formation?

      • Steve Nelsen

        Replacing Morgan. Maybe Davis and KJ switch sides but I see Davis, Wright and Wagner as the 3 starters.

        • HI Hawk

          I think Lamp is a huge question mark at Tackle due to his lack of length. But, if the plan is to move Ifedi out to RT, Lamp’s lack of elite arm length is much less worrisome at RG. He could be an elite Guard in the NFL.

    • Misfit74

      Are there enough snaps in base to justify the non pass rushing element of a (more or less) ‘true’ ILB like J. Davis vs. a player like Watt, Obi, or King, who could play in 4-2-5 / passing down formations and therefore see enough snaps to justify a high pick?

      • Misfit74

        To clarify, I really mean ‘3rd LB’, J. Davis wouldn’t play over Wright/Wagner, only give breathers in 2-LB formations.

      • Ground_Hawk

        This is why I am getting anxious for this draft. I think whoever Seattle drafts with their first 2 picks will indicate how they feel about their current group of players. Do they believe in their secondary enough to wait until their natural 2nd, or are they concerned enough with the CB/S positions that they feel compelled to move up from 58 to get their guy; maybe even pick 26.

        I also think the same could be said of the LB group. It’s looking like Seattle should have options if they choose to go either route, because of the talent that could be available in rounds 1 & 2.

  40. Del tre

    Sidney Jones is supposed to play this season after his surgery was successful. I would be distraught if Schneider didn’t use a 3rd on him (if he is there). Rob does this effect his draft stock much or will most teams be scared off?

    • Nick

      Imagine this. Trade back into the 2nd Round (from 33-45ish). Pick up Sidney Jones.

      If they feel he can get back on the field even after Week 6, I feel like that’s still a good long term investment. However, if they see King > Jones…then this plan is probably not realistic.

    • Rob Staton

      Despite today’s tweets I fear it’s optimistic to think he can play at all this year

  41. EP

    Any idea what Seattle might want / realistically get from Oakland if anything at all? That is assuming Marshawn does come out of retirement.

    • cha

      A warm sense of satisfaction that Beast Mode again is once again in the NFL.

  42. Sea Mode

    Doug Hendrickson, the agent for retired RB Marshawn Lynch, tells KNBR that while his client misses playing football, the media “took the ball and kind ran with it” in regards to the reports of him unretiring and possibly joining the Raiders.

    “Well in all sincerity, Marshawn’s been in Canada,” Hendrickson said. “I’m due to see him this week. So he and I have not spoken about this at all. So it was the media who took the ball and kind ran with it.

    “He’s one of the most unique guys I’ve ever been with in my life. Marshawn, it wouldn’t shock me in three days if he says, ‘Hey, I want to play.’ It wouldn’t shock me if he says, ‘Nah, I don’t know where this came from. I don’t want to play.‘”

    According to Hendrickson, Lynch is in good shape financially but he can’t rule out a potential return to the NFL.

    “He doesn’t spend any of the money he’s made. He’s got a lot of money,” Hendrickson said. “He does miss football, no question. He loves the game of football. He’s 30. But until I meet with him this week, you know, I don’t know what his mindset is. He’s the kind of guy that can shift by the hour.”

    “Marshawn’s always done it his way,” Hendrickson said. “He hasn’t succumbed to public pressure. He does it how he wants to do it. All the athletes look at him and want to do the same thing, but they can’t do it. He’s authentic. He’s real.”

    • Hawk Eye

      if he plays for the Raiders, good luck to him, unless we meet him in the Super Bowl. I doubt the Hawks can get even a 7th round pick for him, since his cap hit is too big to keep him.
      I think one more good year would put him in the HOF, although i think he eventually gets there anyways
      I just hope he does not come back and find out he has lost a step or lost the drive to run people over, or takes more shots that end up in a long term brain injury. I still doubt he really comes back.

      as much as I love watching football, the whole CET thing is serious and makes me wonder about the sport. I won’t let my kids play it, or hockey, for that reason. And I do not believe in the NFL to take care of the players and find a way to make it safer, they just care about the $$$. But I still watch, my guilty pleasure.

  43. DLep

    Xavier Woods just ran a 4.44 apparently as La Tech pro day. Woods, Chuck Clar Va Tech, Josh Jones, I wonder if any of these might be safety depth considerations in the later rounds for Seattle. Shaq Griffin too.

  44. Hawk Eye

    interesting assessment of Joekel
    Hope he works out as this guy thinks he will. And the others improve just from more experience.
    I doubt the Hawks take OL with the first 2 picks. I am hoping they can get Clady, but $$ and health might not work out for that.
    Defense, speed, and more speed are what I hope for in the draft

  45. James

    This will really get interesting if King, Melifanwu and Bolles are all available when the Seahawks pick. King a day one starter, Melifanwu probably the greatest DB athletic talent since Neon-Deone, and Bolles a legit starting LT.

    • Rob Staton

      I know there’s some national sentiment that Bolles will last into the 20’s — but I think it will be a stunning set of events if he gets beyond even pick #16. He is just too good, too athletic, too nasty and in a rotten OL market, you get him on a cheap deal for five years.

      • James

        Rob, if King is moving up the board, and the NFL GMs are seeing what you are seeing regarding Bolles, then the most-Seahawky guy may be Melifonwu? This guy is the freak’s freak, and Pete may well be rubbing his hands together as we speak in anticipation of a 6-4, 220, CB with insane sparq numbers, and who could always move back to S if CB is not a good fit.

        • Rob Staton

          I think that is arguably the most likely pick at this stage. Although I’ve read a couple of recent mocks with Melifonwu also going to Tampa Bay at #19.

          The great thing is — even if Melifonwu, King, Bolles and Reddick are off the board, we can come up with 7-8 other names that are really intriguing. Great draft.

          • DJ 1/2 Way (Sea/PDX)

            And the answer is?

            If they are all there (as unlikely as that is) what order do you take them in?

            It has to be Bolles, Reddick, Obi and King. That is likely the order the rest of the league will take them in before the Seahawks have any chance to pick even one. I think they trade back in the first. Or they take Watt. Maybe Kamara or some surprise dropper like Howard, Foster or Ross.

            While I am making predictions, I think we get four RB in the 1st (blame Elliot) and the first one will be underwhelming. Fournette is a straight line back, and the speed of the NFL will limit his production. Also, the first round QBs will suck, and the best QB of the draft will come outside the first round. (Thank God the Seahawks have Russ)

  46. nichansen01

    Really hope Francois signs with Seattle.

  47. CharlieTheUnicorn

    “He (LB Reuben Foster) already had immaturity, issues with life skills. This is the same guy,” an evaluator for the team said after Foster’s early departure, per the report. “We’re not in the market.” This team has a top 15 pick according to a report.

    Should and would Seattle consider this guy if he slipped to #26?

    • Rob Staton

      Is there a link to this?

      • Misfit74

        [One NFL team with a top-15 selection wasn’t interested in Alabama LB Reuben Foster even before he was sent home early from the NFL Combine.
        “He already had immaturity, issues with life skills. This is the same guy,” an evaluator for the team said. “We’re not in the market.” Foster, projected as a first-round pick, is considered the draft’s top linebacker. His college coach, Nick Saban, has consistently defended him. “I don’t think he’s immature at all,” Saban said. “I think he’s an outgoing personality. You might even say when he’s cutting up with his teammates he’s a little silly, but that should not be mistaken for immaturity. He graduated here. We never had a problem with him. He’s easy to talk to and reason with. And he’s not immature at all when it comes to competitive character, getting ready to prepare and play in a game.”]

        • Misfit74


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