It’s been pretty clear since Bobby Wagner’s departure from the Rams that his preference was to return to Seattle. He’s coming home, which will have many Seahawks fans rejoicing. It will be a feel-good story in the city and it means linebacker is no longer a need for the team.
I do have a few reservations to raise though and hope this isn’t construed as raining on anyone’s parade.
In his last season in Seattle in 2021, I thought Wagner looked a shell of himself. He wasn’t attacking gaps with the same vigour. He was riding screen passes downfield. He wasn’t flying to the ball. I’m not sure if he had an injury or felt like it was a bit of a lost cause as things unfolded — but this wasn’t the Wagner we’d come to know.
Seattle didn’t have to cut him a year ago. An extension would’ve lowered his large $20m cap hit and they could’ve kept him around. Perhaps it was simply a really difficult bargaining position to owe that much for 2022 and work on an extension? Especially with no agent involved. That’s very plausible. Either way, I thought the Seahawks made the right call to cut him and jump into a new era.
I thought he looked renewed and refreshed in the three Rams’ games I watched last season — the blowout against Denver and Russell Wilson on Christmas Day and the two meetings with the Seahawks. In particular against Seattle, I thought he looked fantastic. There were many reasons why he would be highly motivated to excel in those games — but the fact is he did play very well.
I can’t speak for the rest of his season but it sounds like he returned to form. I would caution, however, that he did get to play behind Aaron Donald for 11 games. He won’t get that luxury in Seattle.
Indeed, the defensive line currently looks incredibly limited. They have cut everyone and signed just two replacements — Dre’Mont Jones and Jarran Reed. I like both of these signings but for Wagner to excel, I think he needs (and deserves) to have a D-line that can control things up front.
Wagner is 33 in June. He’s coming to the end of his career. It remains to be seen, even with the addition of Jones, whether the Seahawks can be good enough up front to allow him to play free and fast. Is he going to be able to produce, or will we see a repeat of 2021?
Can you create a fearsome D-line with rookies? Or do you need a few more grizzled veterans in there? Do they need the Shelby Harris and Al Woods types to mix in with some young talent?
I also fear that they’re increasingly setting up a situation where they’re going to back themselves into a corner in the draft. Are they obliged to take defensive linemen early and often, regardless of whoever else is available? They’ve spoken about avoiding that situation but it’s hard to know how they’ll steer clear of it now.
According to Over the Cap they have -$746,786 in effective cap space. If Wagner’s contract isn’t incentive-laden, they don’t even have the money currently to sign their rookies. They also don’t have many levers to create more cap space. It’s basically negotiating with Uchenna Nwosu from a position of weak leverage or cutting Jamal Adams as a post-June 1st release. Or they trade Noah Fant in a buyers market, given the quality of the tight ends in the draft.
It’s a big benefit to the Seahawks to have Wagner’s experience and leadership. I sense they’ve gone above and beyond to get this done — knowing the groundswell of desire from fans and the players’ apparent preference to come home.
I do think it’s curious though that they’re spending so much, again, on linebackers and safeties while the defensive line is in the state that it is. The draft will inevitably provide help. Clearly, they intend to be younger up front. That can have big benefits — but can a young, inexperienced line execute the scheme and keep the second-level defenders clean?
I also appreciate this is not a good linebacker class. Now, they can ignore it completely if they wish. They have eliminated a worry and have added character to the locker room.
Some other notes:
— In the last 12 months Wagner’s been cut by the Seahawks and the Rams. On each occasion he has had a ‘let’s wait and see’ market, with teams weighing up their options. If he’s still capable of playing like one of the best linebackers in the NFL, why has he been cut twice and not been a hot-ticket free agent on either occasion?
— One of my big complaints during the 2018-21 period was the resource spend at linebacker and safety, compared to the investment in the trenches. Last year was a great start — cutting money at linebacker then spending high picks on the O-line and defensive front seven. Then they signed Dre’Mont Jones to kick off free agency this year. However, they still have an astonishing $36m committed to Quandre Diggs and Jamal Adams in 2023 on top of also signing Julian Love and retaining Ryan Neal. Now they’ve brought back Wagner and signed Bush for $10.5m. It’s a curious strategy.
— Is there a danger that nostalgia is playing too big a a part in this? Is he coming back because he legitimately is ready to play better than his previous season in Seattle, or are we getting caught up in a nice story? The Seahawks were right to turn to a new era a year ago and launch a fresh start. Is one injury to Jordyn Brooks enough to rush back to the past?
— Are the Seahawks being more aggressive to accelerate their fresh start, are they simply being opportunistic or do they think they are close to contending? I am very comfortable with the first two but I hope they’re realistic about where they are. If they can combine competitive in 2023 with an eye to the long-term through the draft, that would be ideal. I hope, however, they avoid treating the draft like a ‘finishing touch’ with attempted ‘impact’ moves to fill remaining holes. That is the kind of plan, as they have admitted themselves, that has led to mistakes in the past.
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1yr, 7M per Schefter
Seems like a lot…
Good move. Provides leadership and lessens desperation for a linebacker in the draft.
This is an emotional (sentiment is an emotion) move, done either out of foolishness OR “emotional contagion”: some of the fan base has imo naively pushed for this reunion.
Move on, rip the bandaid. 7 freaking million. That better include a 5 million bonus for winning the Superbowl.
No, not an emotional move. Show a better option out there. It is a one year move. With poor LB options in the draft, you would rather not spend a valuable draft pick on a lesser commodity. This team is not competing for a championship this year; they are still a year or two away. Spend your draft picks according to the positional strengths and plan to complete your roster next year.
I hope its $1m against cap and lots of incentives.
So we cut Al Woods for Wagner?
Feels right to have him back in blue if nothing else. Felt gross last year. Whether the signing is a good football move or not is very much up for debate, but he’s still an all-time Seahawk.
Not many ways to “structure” a one year deal. Will be interesting to see what other move(s) happen to free up some cap.
Guessing (in order of palatability/probability) –
1. Nwosu extension
2. Tyler restructure
3. Adams cut post June 1
Unfortunately I believe Nwosu has to actually agree to an extension, and he may be unwilling to do so at this time, preferring to reach free agency following this season. And so far the team continues to insist they aren’t cutting Adams, but of course this could change.
At this point they are out of room under the cap if you factor in the money they will pay their rookies. I am no expert but I don’t see how they will be able to sign any more players before the draft.
Bye, Jamal.
Please 🙏
If this lead to an Adams cut, which it won’t, I would be giddy.
I’m not giddy.
Yeah. I’m sure they still like the idea of his potential but they have to find cap room somewhere. What are their other options? Diggs? Lock? Lockett? (Nah). Neal? Evan Brown? Or keeping Adams but on a re-worked, team friendly, incentive laden contract? If he refuses, he’s down the road. The man has been paid enough for not playing. That’s a sunk cost, but we don’t need to repeat it in the future.
Facemask doink Adams shall meet The Turk on June 2nd.
Hahahahaha. Damnit! I never thought we’d pay $7mil. Happy to have him back.
Now it feels more and more like we are not going QB because win now. We probably like McDonald, Ade Ade, JMS, and others in that mid 1st-2nd round range and will look to maximize picks in that range.
To clarify, it’s not that I don’t think he’s worthy of seven million. It’s strictly coming from the team cap perspective.
Also, you know who saves $8mil if cut post June 1st? The greatest safety.
Not sure how signing a LB changes the concept of drafting a QBOTF?
Because we spent $7 mil on a an ageing vet (our ageing vet tbf). Up until now, our moves were on young guys who haven’t hit their ceiling that add ammo for the next 1-3 years with possible upside.
That $7mil could’ve been spent in the same vein. But instead we signed 33 year old Bwagz.
It doesn’t mean we can’t draft a QBOTF. But if we were weighing the future more than the now, a move like this is contradictory. So, it feels like we are giving more weight to win now thus making QBOTF less likely. I can’t tell the future though so idk 🤷♂️ I still want AR or Levis.
Why would signing Wagner make them more win now than before?
I can see where the concept lives. We were 9-8. There have been marginal upgrades. There were good chunks of the year if the defense did anything we’d be 11 to even 12 wins….last year.
Of course that doesn’t account for our soft schedule or Geno tapering off as the year went on.
Plus these guys did spend the better part of a decade in win now mode.
We just spent $7M of cap space that we don’t have on a one year deal for an aging ILB… To me that’s pretty much the definition of win now.
Yeah, it’s not at all because he’s a future HOFer come home to close out his career like the prodigal son.
No way an entertainment league would be interested in a Hollywood ending like that.
And no way it’s not to plug the gaping hole at ILB.
I’m not any happier about the amount than anyone else, though we should wait for the details like we did with the other “omg wtf did they do” signings this offseason.
You’re moving the goal posts now. Changing the argument to – it’s about entertainment, appeasing the fans and return of the prodigal son VS this doesn’t make us win-now.
It does make us more competitive. Does it make us a contender? Probably not. Yet it feels like so many moves of the recent past, where it’s an ‘over the top’ move for a team that isn’t all that close.
I don’t love or hate it, for the record. I just see it as a – This will make us better in 2023 move. Fine in and of itself, but something has to give to make it work with the cap.
I’m not sure it’s possible to move the goal post past “signing Wagner means Seattle is win now” – to the extent QB is out at 5
I offered two reasons why it just makes sense to bring him back that don’t mean the team is selling out for a SB run in 2023:
No Brooks to start and no depth behind him
The feel good story of a HOFer come home
How is that moving the goal post?
I’ll reassert my point: I don’t think signing Wagner to plug a massive hole means they’re any more win now than they were before they signed him but still desperately needed something at ILB. Except now they’re not so desperate at ILB.
I didn’t mention anything about QB at 5.
You have to admit a one year deal for an old ILB at $7M (or $5M, or whatever the numbers end up being) isn’t a play toward the future. It’s for 2023 only and what it does to the cap remains to be seen.
I hope this isn’t the plan. And if it is I hope every single draft pick hits. Because a nearly dead last defense doesn’t make a 20 odd spot to top ten by a death free dline and adding a very good safety to a room that can never stay healthy.
Very pleased generally with FA but I’d argue that we’ve upgraded one spot in the dline and leveled off the safeties.
Bush and Wagner? Probably better than brooks and Barton but that’s damning with faint praise.
Ya, hard to view this as a ‘build to the future’ move. This definitely feels like a win-now type of signing. It isn’t a long-term deal, so there’s that.
There is also a glaring hole at ILB and a pretty weak class, so I get it.
Sure hope we aren’t hyper-focused on the here and now at the expense of the relatively near term.
Tbf almost none of the signings are about building they’ve almost all been a out draft hedges.
I’m off a completely different mindset, this tells me it isn’t win now. It’s still a rebuild year and we are bringing in some vet leadership to coach up young guys. Wagner to me is not a win now signing.
Alright let’s bring back Brandon Mebane next!
Because they have always been a package deal, right? DOH
Nah, lets kick the tires on Grant Wistrom first.
Bring back the entire old gang. Sherm, ETIII, Kam, Bennett and Avril. This organization is going to be a good laugh if they don’t completely send this draft
Very weird and that’s all I have to say about this. For now.
Thanks for the notes Rob.
Most of FA I’ve been happy with. Am very concerned that a team that has always been iffy, and that generous, about finding dline talent might be rolling with a bunch of rookies.
Which is hardly a recipe for success unless we are looking to 2025 or so to shore up this defense.
Hopefully it’s a 1 mil base and 6 mil incentives on tfl’s
+1
Here’s to Bobby having a good year. Maybe his role will suit his strengths & this turns out well.
Maybe Quandre gets an extra year and they spread out his cap hit? Going to be interesting to see how they manage the cap.
The need for space-eaters and line-holders up front on that DL just skyrocketed. And it was already very high. A whole bunch of tackles 7+ yards behind the line is not what the doctor ordered, again.
Sadly, Brooks’ injury forced our hand to an extent, as well as the lack of LB depth already on the roster. If Brooks comes back sooner and/or Bush re-ignites his career then Wagner can just retire a Seahawk, I guess. Hopefully he has enough left in the tank to give us half a season or more.
Personally, I’d rather have gone younger but the draft is also sketchy for day one starters. We’re now free to invest heavily in DL and not reach for a rookie LB.
Build the trenches!
Kinda scary how they are really really really tight against the cap…there almost has to be a move now considering Bobby will count 7 mil against the cap. Jeez
I really hope Wagner shuts up and brings a lunch pale to work every day. I’m sick of listening to Diggs bad mouth his employer while being WAY overpaid. I was hoping they’d move on from both. Hopefully, that’s one year away and this provides cover to get to a better ILB draft next year.
I think Diggs will stay on the roster until after the draft to hide their draft plans. Then, after we get Skinner, he’s gone.
Cutting Diggs at any time this next season or before gets us virtually no cap benefit, as I understand it. The 2024 season is a different story…
Sorry, I meant Adams, who will be cut after the draft (with a post June 1 designation).
Q — Pete, just how good is Bobby Wagner?
😩
We need more Joe Fanns in these press conferences.
Is it Bob Condotta who always asks the “how good is…” questions? Annoying.
Ironically, it’s incredibly likely that Pete and John had to ask themselves the same question before committing to bringing him back.
Bobby, what book are you reading this month?
😂
Can you beat rookie so-and-so at H.O.R.S.E.?
Quite tired of this and kicking this tire makes me quite tired of being a fan of this team. Maybe now is the best time to bury my head in the sand…again
This team is improving Jag. Don’t bury your head in the sand too far or you’ll miss it!
Initially I wasn’t thrilled with this move either as it seems to be what they’ve always done.
If we had signed someone else’s star ILB at the end of their career as a stop gap/mentor for some young players to be named later we wouldn’t feel like this was a “sentimental” move.
This just feels like another hedge pick. And it Bobby!
Sometimes you gotta sit back and simply enjoy parts the ride 😁👍
A better question is what else could you have gotten for $7M?
7m + 8.44m =
Way too much money. Love Bobby but damn, I’d much rather have Woods at NT. Wonder what their plan is there.
This feels an awful lot like when Washington traded for McNabb. I just don’t see the value here. It’s like we’re slowly running a red light.
Did John want this?
If this means a post June 1 cut of Adams I’m good with this. If not, where does the money come from unless this extremely incentive laden.
His age mostly.
And his cost.
2021 Wagner was awful and frankly I’m surprised LA gave him a deal like that, regardless of what it ended up being. He obviously sold them on his continued athleticism and ability to impact games. And kudos to him for delivering.
That’s the only reason we’re even having this conversation. That and his leadership qualities. The feel-good stuff only matters if the on-field/locker room/cap space stuff makes sense.
Not too sure about that last part, but I’m still on high alert that a big change is coming to the safety room. There’s simply no way they can carry $36m between Diggs and Adams, especially when Adams might not be available until Week 8.
ESPN:
“He earned second-team All-Pro honors after posting 140 tackles, a career-high 6 sacks, 2 interceptions and 5 passes defended while starting all 17 games. Pro Football Focus rated Wagner as the top linebacker in the NFL last season”.
I mean, it could be worse, right? Even 75% Wagner is better than a lot of “quality starters” in the NFL. I don’t think we’ll be getting a “replacement-level” player in Wagner this season. As long as we have a succession plan to get younger and develop for the future. I agree, though, we need to invest heavily in the DL still.
Disclaimer: I hope we use him correctly. I will quickly tire of seing him abused in coverage…
But his last season in Seattle was not good
We need to see him more 2022 than 2021
I hope we can produce a DL capable of aiding that because he hasn’t got Donald, A’Shawn, Gaines and Floyd now
100% agree, Rob. Here’s a question; what happens if his athletic decline is evidenced so clearly in training csmp, pre-season that he becomes a cut candidate? What if he’s beaten out our outplayed early in the season? These things may be doubtful, but I’m curious what the contract says; what flexibility we have.
On the lack of D lineman addictions…
Do we think there’s any chance they might just not be planning on running a 3-4 next year? They were quite mixed last year anyway and it didn’t exactly work. Still need more anyway, but at the moment they need additions just to have a starting front 3-4 front.
They’ve said they’re not shifting scheme and they’ve been actively pursuing and signing 3-4 defensive linemen
Relax guys, this just means Carter will be our first pick, to pave the way for Bobby!😂
😂
As hilarious as it seems, this is a big topic in Seahawks fandom right now. People are chirping everywhere how Bobby will show Carter how to be a pro.
It’s mind boggling.
Roll on May
Draft can’t get here soon enough
Let’s just be real here, drafting Jalen Carter would be a straight to the Super Bowl cheat code.
Has a single player ever created a dynasty on his own?
Jalen Carter will be the first
I don’t know why we’re even signing free agent defensive players when we could just draft the new JC
Maybe we could race right to the top of the NFC standings?
🏎️
I see what you did there
As for “win now”, why not? Who scares you in the NFC right now? The Rams and Cardinals are down. San Francisco has a great defensive line and LB, but do they really have a starting QB?
Phili lost Javon Hargrave, Linval Joseph, Ndamukong Suh, Robert Quinn, T.J. Edwards, Kyzir White, C.J. Gardner-Johnson, Marcus Epps and their defensive coordinator from their defense. They still have some good players, but it won’t be the same defense.
Rodgers will go to the AFC and GB will be down.
Maybe Dallas?
I think this is Pete Carroll’s swan song. The Hawks need a nose tackle and WR3. Those are the two holes left in the starting lineup and both can be addressed in the draft. Then, they could upgrade the center position and add depth on the D line and at RB. Finally, they can start to plan for next year at safety, TE, guard, CB (and QB with their first pick).
If they get Mazi Smith and Johnathan Mingo (after the luxury QB pick at 5), they fill their two holes. They can take players like John Michael Schmitz, Julien Brents, Cody Mauch, JK Skinner, Tank Bigsby, etc. and tick the other boxes above.
I could see us giving it a run this year with the NFC being down. Likely just a wildcard team, but you never know.
I think this whole “NFC is wide open” is understated. If we aren’t competing for a deep run in the playoffs next season I’ll be surprised.
Also… we desperately need a RB2 (if not a RB3) as well. Our offense won’t work without a consistent ground game.
i agree
Hopefully he holds a grudge against the Rams and plays as well against them as he did against us last year.
I think he really came back because he has been wants to play in the throwback jerseys.
I hope he doesn’t waste a good grudge on LA
Save it for the Niners!
Let’s hope it’s both!
How much cap space is freed up cutting Jamal Adams?
$8.4m
Thanks…wow, not much and they have to sign their rookie class…strange signing
Are you considering what such an action could ruin local, designer coffee thermos artisans?
Totally agree and coffee is second to no nothing
DJ Fluker just signed for 1yr/8mm. Beefing up the O-line.
I kid, I kid. I think…
I personally would have preferred they signed back Shelby Harris. Love B-Wags and I also see the hole we had at LB (but also still at DL). I hope he brings 2022 with him and not 2021.
Maybe they could sign Fluker and convert him to a NT…LOL, he’s got the right build for it.
I met him once at a park in Seattle. One of the largest humans I’ve ever seen. Didn’t look like there was bad fat on him either at the time. Pro athletes are just built different…
They are literally superhuman. I will never forget being trackside at the Prefontaine and seeing world class sprinters up close. Truly amazing. They float, even just walking around.
Long time lurker, first time commenter. My heart says yes on this move, but my head says no. I will withhold my full judgement until the contract details are revealed, but I would have preferred a DL signing over this. Lets hope he keeps his 2022 form.
Not a fan of this move. I don’t see a universe where 33 year-old Bobby Wagner is worth $7m. This seems like a Pete deal.
I see it going one of three ways:
1. It’s serious. He’s coming back to play. (97% chance of this)
2. It’s an uber-fancy “one day contract” to come back and retire a Seahawk (2%)
3. Pete Carroll Roulette. Who the hell knows? (1%)
The Seahawks need to create about $25m to field a team in ’23 and, beyond cutting the Coffee Cup, it’s going to require some interesting maneuvers. This signing is a waste of limited resources. Thumbs down.
The Bobby from 22′ was really good. The 21′ Bobby was soft. Let’s just be real.
Which version are we getting? Also how often are LBs actually playing this season? Are we going to a dime or ultra dime package on passing downs?
“Last year, two cornerstone members of the Seahawks left the organization. This year, one of them is coming back.” (Florio)
And it took me a second to remember who the other one was.
With the way things are sounding in Denver lately, we may be able to get the other one back too
💯
I’m betting:
1) It’s not 7 million for Wags, it’s far less plus incentives.
2) It’s filling a Leadership void as much as anything
3) they are ratcheting up pressure on Adams, planning to wait till last minute to demand pay cut or they cut him.
4) they will end up having to cut Adams.
5) I still think one of their first 3-4 picks will be WR3. They got nothing after DK and Lockett, and that won’t do.
Looks like theres good odds on 3.
The safety market, Jessie Bates aside, topped out at $7.5m apy. What could Adams expect to get on the open market? Maybe $5m apy, if he could even pass a physical.
Adams $11m salary could be cut in half at least, possibly tie the pay cut to incentives. IF Jamal is logical and level headed he should be amenable to these terms. He has no leverage coming off another major injury.
Any Utah fans out there care to chime in on this guy? From Tony Pauline,
At BYU’s pro day, again from TP.
Plan “E, F or G” if Anderson is available at #5?
Well Rob if everything went as your Mock Draft today it would help. 3 D-lineman & 3 interior O-lineman would fit our offseason; & fill most remaining needs.
Mazi & Wypler starting, then all the depth plus QBOF. I’ll take that happily.
Hopefully we see a Nwosu extension & somehow they miraculously get Adams to take a pay cut. Preferably Diggs too, & yes I know it’s less than a 1% chance on the paycuts.
Will be interesting to see what they do.
Really appreciate the double post today, thanks again for the continued great content.
This quote from Schneider a couple of days ago, makes your draft scenario very possible. Especially on the D-Line.
https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/1639013796424589312?t=0fOK77Y2aXLfm1vJ25DUTg&s=19
Agreed. That mock draft plus last year has the trenches young and talented. Let everything else fill out over the next year or 2 while the money comes off of the books. People think that Seattle is going to be a Super Bowl contender this coming year and they’re just too far away talentwise, and too messed up capwise.
Hedges and trench depth with our QBOTF getting the time he needs.
Extend Nwosu too and pluck the peacock.
I hope I’m wrong and he’ll have a wonderful season. At least we got ourselves a guy who is in position to hold others accountable when not doing enough, looking at you Quandre.
I like the move was great in 2020, and 2022 was not great in 2021. But think he has one more alpha year in him.
Just because I like living in a fantasy world.
It would be awesome to trade Jamal To the Chiefs for CEH.
Did a mock where Anderson was available at #5 & wanted to see how it played out.
5. Will Anderson Jr. EDGE Alabama
28. Keion White DE Georgia Tech
45. Mazi Smith DT Michigan
52. Luke Musgrave TE Oregon State
83. Jaren Hall QB BYU
92. Olusegun Oluwatimi OC Michigan
116. Daiyan Henley LB Washington State
123. Jammie Robinson S Florida State
151. Nick Broeker OG Ole Miss
154. Rakim Jarrett WR Maryland
198. Chris Rodriguez Jr. RB Kentucky
237. Keondre Coburn DT Texas
Wouldn’t be the end of the world. Occasionally Arizona picks someone other than Anderson in the sim at #3. If they do that on draft day things will get interesting.
I’m not taking Anderson if Levis or Richardson is on the board. Anderson just doesn’t move the needle as much as a potential QBoTF.
Rob, when are you going to get Tony back on the pod? The Football Insiders podcast was released and it feels like Tony has been oddly quiet this draft season. He had that report of the Seahawk interest in JMS, but haven’t really heard much since. Is he being told to keep quiet?
I usually speak to Tony a week or two before the draft and he’ll be on again this year 👍🏻
sweet
Say we trade Fant for a 4th rounder and extend Nwosu. Then we use the 4th and 52 to trade for Buckner and give him a new deal. Then post June 1st Adams and draft the same as you did minus 52 being Wypler, and still trade back from 20 but a little further for a late 2nd or early 3rd. Take Schmitz skipping Ade Ade even though I like him instead of 1 more rookie on the DL you have a game wrecking vet to add to the mix
Who plays TE?
Hope parkinson takes a huge leap this year? Dissly is hurt every year.
Draft a TE with your pick you get from the trade back the late 2nd or early 3rd
In a deep TE class doubt you’re getting more than a late fourth or fifth for Fant.
Other teams can draft a rookie, like us, and pay him around 7 million for four years or fant around seven million for a year
I wouldn’t expect more then that I think the most the colts would get is a second for Buckner with his contract as high as it is, so the fourth would just be a cherry on the 52 to hopefully get the deal done.
With the trade, extension of Nwosu, and post June of Adams you should clear in the neighborhood of 20mil which gives you enough to extend Buckner and sign your draft picks which would be a little cheaper since you are trading down from 20 and essentially down from 52
I would prefer that the Seahawks only pick up players that may still be around in a few years when hopefully they would have a team that could compete for championships. The goal for a rebuild is to go young and cheap. As PC has stated, the Seahawks have a long ways to go to match the talent on the SF roster. This team is as constructed is currently not close to a championship window.
However, I get that they have a glaring hole at LB for 2023 and if a bunch of fans are happy then that is good for their business.
I’d really like to see the numbers for Bobby’s deal but part of me is happy to have him back. Really starting to feel the money crunch now. JS on his pod said he was still hoping that Big Al would be back. I know there was some worry that now we have to reach for a DL in the draft. However I don’t think Seattle gives a damn about not having a NT. Not that it’s a good precedence but they have carried a weakness all the way until training camp and filled the issue late (Clowney, Diggs, Dunlap). JS already talked about not repeating past mistakes this off-season. I don’t think he will reach again with an early pick. I think may take BPA and I hope they do. Can’t wait for the draft
Love Bobby Wag. But the old Bobby Wagner, not this retread. I
With regards to signing Wagner, sometimes you just gotta say ‘WTF’.
Or was it ‘WTF?’.
Bidding against themselves example #735198.
💯
This presumes Bobby would have signed elsewhere for less.
I highly doubt that. I think he would’ve called it a career if nobody was willing to pay him what he wanted.
His pride wouldn’t let him.
Maybe we had an agreement to pay him whatever Lavonte David got. In that sense we’re paying market value.
Even in his bad 2021 year his missed tackle rate was pretty low, maybe he can teach something to everyone else on the 2022 squad? There might be some connection between how bad the tackling was last year and not having an all time great tackler as captain.
Here’s to hoping he can make those tackles behind the line and not five yards downfield.
We just need to wait for the official numbers. How many times the real numbers were much lower that what was initially published.
First of all I totally agree with you on Tyree Wilson bull rush and bull rush. I have to tell my first thought was Tyree is going to try and bull rush Trent Williams twice a year.good luck on that. I guess my question for you Rob is if the Seahawks decide to draft a center at 52 who would you consider the next best center option Juice Scuggs or Olusegun Oluwatimi ? That is if Wypler isn’t available
Not Rob but my thought is neither. Don’t force a day three player due to need.
I’m still happy with this off seasons business – I think Wagnar for one season, may not be the long time solution but a year contract along with Wagnars luv for the club, playing a captains role is going to be a positive.
Re-signing Bobby was almost inevitable, and I’m kind of OK with it, but the way we have gone addressing the middle linebacker position seems to have unbalanced the squad. The Bush signing doesn’t make sense (financially) in light of the Wagner signing.
What I mean is – I’d rather have Brooks, Wagner, Muse at LB with Woods at NT, than Brooks, Wagner, Bush and a gaping hole at NT.
Also, I’m getting too into this draft thing. Dreamt about it last night!
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but trading Noah Fant would save us 6.8 mil against the cap correct? With no cap hit. I think this may be something they will have to do. I wouldn’t be shocked to see him traded even before or during the draft.
I’m thinking perhaps that market opens up during the draft, for teams who miss out on Mayer, Musgrave & Washington?
With Disslys injury that could leave us with one TE. I’d prefer to extend him, but if we grab a TE early I can see a trade.
.
That’s where I’m at with Fant. If they don’t draft a TE early it could be a pretty rough year at that position.
I wonder if this signing will help maximize the team’s considerable investment at safety. Having Wagner to orchestrate the defense might free up Diggs, Neal, and Love to make plays. We know how much the Fangio system relies on playmaking safeties. And Nino looked awful last year without B-Wagz on the field… maybe that’s why he’s so hyped.
I think Diggs was recovering from his busted leg and it took longer than expected. His play did improve in the latter part of the season so I’m going to wait and see before hoping they trade/cut him.
What do both our new safety and LB bring to the table? Speed! Bush was still recovering last year so again, I will withhold judgement until I actually see him play.
Sometimes it takes a full year to fully recover to get back to your peak performance.
Sure, it’s lot of money and Bobby isn’t a young grasshopper anymore. But I’d rather have him for 7m (and let’s wait for how much incentives is in there) than Barton for free…
My initial view on Bobby was an absolute NO. The team turned the page and don’t look back. Hi young and fast at LB.
But the more I think about it the more I am coming around to the idea as long as it is part the rebuild plan not a push to try and compete at all costs this year.
I don’t think the Hawks will pick up Brooks 5th year so they do not have a young leader / signal caller at LB. Bush could become that if he can finally bounce back from the injury and be close to the guy he was coming into the league. Signing Bobby gives the young defense a signal caller and guy tk get everyone lined up and on the same page. Missed assignments was a huge issue last year and he should help with that.
It also allows them not to reach for an LB. They can draft a couple of super atheltic LB on day 3 who can come in and play special teams year 1 learning behind Bobby. Then if Bush works out great you have a new leader at LB. If not you have a couple of young yr2 LB who are much more prepared to play meaningful snaps.
For example if they could pick up Dorian Williams and Yasir Abdullah in the 4th /5th round they would not have to rush them into starting and have great depth at LB going forward.
The Key to all of this finding a solid Veteran run stuffing DT before the draft. If they could sign A’shawn Robinson over the next couple of weeks they would truly have the ultimate flexibility heading into the draft to be able to take BPA. This is critical though IMO.
I think your perspective is right here.
It’s less win now and more filling hedges until draft day.
I’ve come around on the Bobby signing. He’s a fan favorite so I totally get it. I honestly don’t expect much from him like I didn’t with Irvin, Reed, others.
While I am pretty happy with the off season thus far. I will say I see some of these “the NFC is wide open comments,” and I raise my eyebrows a bit.
I know the math behind the superbowl loser and how their next year is. Bur are the eagles worse? Did the niners get worse? Before people say Brock Purdy. A quick reminder that no one knew him til he was on the field. The niners can apparently plug and play qb’s and I fully expect them to do that again. Detroit is us. Anyway we could get better they could get better and they could be a problem. The panthers unlike us actually have a defense. If the get a good rookie, notice not a great QB just good, they’ll be a problem.
And then there is us. Love the mini churn. Love the hedges. But we are paper thin on the dline. Jones big upgrade if he’s mostly healthy. Reed? I don’t know feels like a net neutral move. Love lowkey best signing. Wagner? Needs to. E kept clean. Checks the line. Not there right now.
New center and Haynes? I don’t know. Need to see it to believe.
Agreed. Personally I think this teams biggest best in the draft outside of QBOTF and DL is finding a legit dynamic third receiving option whether it be a stud TE or WR3. If this offense wants to take it to the next level then finding an elite 3rd option in the passing game and shoring up the interior of the OL are critical.
Agree about Bobby’s utility to the team, but this is a terrible LB draft. I’d maybe pick one, maybe sign one UDFA, and look to next year.
Dorian Williams and Daiyan Henley are pretty much the only LBs I’d draft before the ass end of Day 3. I like both. Either would be good, not great. Taking both would be a waste of a pick imo.
That’s why I specified Day 3 LB in the draft.
True enough. My comment was more to the room. No thanks to Drew Sanders. Maybe at 52, but I doubt he’d be available and frankly there would be other players at other positions I’d prefer.
This. PLEASE!
I guess if they figure on trading Fant and drafting a TE, then this is fine.
LB is too hard to fill this year.
That would make their board something like this for their second first and two second rounders.
BPA of Center, Dtackle, and TE.
I would guess they have them ranked
JMS
Michael Mayer
Mazi Smith
Ade Ade
Luke Wypler
Luke Musgrave
Darrell Washington
Would indicate going heavy on D line in the draft to try to build it up and keep him clean.
Have we all completely ruled out J.Carter?
Agree with the NFC wide open comments – I don’t think it is as much as we think it is.
Completely ruled it out
Regarding Bobby playing behind Aaron Donald and benefitting from that, Donald only played 11 games last year and missed both games vs the Seahawks where Bobby excelled. Bobby played well all year per PFF with or without Donald though I’m sure Donald did help when he was out there. So if we can get the 2022 Bobby, I like the move.
Idk if it’s been said or not, but I just read that the Texans and Colts didn’t send anyone to the Ohio State pro day to watch stroud. But did they send to watch bama and Kentucky? Seems like would be interesting if that’s true, no?
knee jerk reaction: perfect move to provide air-cover for cutting a certain safety
Why are Pete and John so obviously taking selfies with the top 4 QBs at their pro days? Could it be they really want Will Anderson? That would make a ton of sense! Perhaps the QB they really want is Hooker. They might be able to get an extra injury year out of him and sit him for Geno’s guaranteed 2023 season (win/win).
No it’s to fake out all the teams behind them that might want to trade up for Jalen Carter and they don’t want any of them “racing” up above them to grab him.
Why is no one considering that the entire car racing incident and deaths and arrest was most likely staged by Carter and Seahawks so that he’d fall to them?? 12D chess folks, think about it.
Brilliant!
Actually, they created the introduction of his parents 21 years ago, after careful dna mapping, and then hired Mission Impossible staff to create the perfect setting/music/alcohol/moon phase/ and Netflix programming to induce his conception first of all… then they managed his every meal and exercise plan from there on forward- all of this prior to the racing incident… it truly is 12D chess
I have seen it offered that Seattle is going to use Adams more like a LB than a safety. Does that have merit?
He’s not a traditional OLB.
He can’t take on blocks or hold the edge.
He’s basically a blitzing LB, I suppose. But even then, unless he’s unblocked, he’s just like any other athletic safety blitzing.
I’m not buying the LB talk, at all.
And that’s not even taking into account that he is fragile and LB makes him even more vulnerable to contact and thus, injuries.
They did experiment with a lot of 3 safety sets last year. For a few weeks in 2022, Cody Barton only took about half the snaps he normally would [insert joke here].
With them loading up on safeties this offseason it would suggest they have more in mind.
Personally, I do think a conversation about Adams’ use is premature at this time. He just started jogging and posted a video where he has a noticeable limp. I am not a doctor (I just play one on TV) but when you think of him jogging in March, it does not inspire confidence that he will be up to game speed come early September.
Nagy knōz
He makes a great point and I think that will really impact who they pick this draft class. It’s the only reason I think Nolan Smith might be in play at 20 even if he is a tweener.
-All 4 QBs + Hendon Hooker
-Devon Witherspoon
-Will Anderson
– Nolan Smith
– Ade Ade
– Cody Mauch
-JMS
– Ade Ade
– Sydney Brown
– Julius Brents
-Andrew Vorhees
-Micheal Mayer
-Darnell Washington
-Josh Downs
-Darnell Wright
-Demarco Hellams
-Derrick Hall
These are just a few of the guys who seem to be really high character, alpha type guys who are likely high on thier board as a result.
I am thinking the Hawks are in a win now all moves point to that whether we agree or not.
and lets be honest they have said as much.
I doubt they will take a qb at 5 and not at 20
This team looks , feels thay can make a run with additions in a weaker NFC west and lets face it NFC.
I think its been a smoke show blow with the QBs .
I’ve seen a couple of YouTube headlines claiming the Hawks have signed Ezekial Elliot to pair in tandem with K-9.
Now, my assumption is that this is mere click bait tease stuff. Anybody have information to the contrary? I mean, is there any smoke there (much less fire)? Anybody who thinks it would be a good look, if affordable?
Me? I reckon we could do okay with a day 2 or day 3 draftee.
He was really bad last year and we appear to be out of money. Highly doubtful.
Can he pkay NT? Then no thank you
Why not? We already know he can play center 🙂
Ok, now let’s have an A’Shawn Robinson signing before the draft and things will be looking pretty darn good. All hedged and ready for the draft to come to us! 🍻🍻🍻
100%
Another 100% from me
Hoping that was Bobby’s second phone call after closing the deal with the Hawks.
“I need some muscle to clear my path, man. Let’s reunite in Seattle.”
So I was checking out OTC to see where we can find some extra cap room after the Bobby signing. Cutting Jamal as ea post-june 1 is the obvious move (after a nwosu extension). But what about a diggs trade? According to OTC trading him pre-june would save almost 10 mio and 14 after june 1. Is that accurate at all? Wouldnt mind that at all if correct.
I think we are done making moves. It feels like everything is proceeding according to plan and we are on schhhhhedule.
Seattle Sports: “We won’t even mention taking a QB at 5 since it’s not happening. They signed Geno and he’s basically Pat Mahomes 2.0 so the rest of the guys in the draft totally suck. Non-story!”
Also Seattle Sports: “Let’s spend multiple segments talking about picking a third WR at pick 20 and how the Seahawks will move down from pick 5 for 10 first round picks since teams are so desperate and will give them everything they want!”
Am I the only one that thinks this is absolutely insane?!
I don’t understand why there hasn’t at least been a bit more of a broader discussion about taking a QB at #5
Brock and Salk have talked about it. But Brock has said Bryce Young is the only good QB of the group and said the other 3 are not good QBs. He has said multiple times that Levis and Richardson are just not good at all, Stroud is overhyped, and he wouldn’t take any in the first three rounds. He spends so much time talking about what they can’t do and never mentions what they can do. And Salk just defers to him since “He was a QB and covers college football, so he is always right.”
I’ve started taking Brock’s takes with a huge grain of salt. I respect the guy but he’s like Simms…has formed an opinion and it isn’t always the right one.
I have reached out multiple times to get Rob on with Bump and Stacey… no response… they have the absolute worst takes but it’s what I am stuck with at work.
Maybe someone else can try and get this to happen
If the Seahawks were to desire a pass catching, tall, fast TE, perhaps they would consider a mid-round pick of one of the top combine performers. TE-Zack Kuntz? Add good pro coaching to traits and……..
From PFN: “”Once viewed as a Day 3 sleeper, Zack Kuntz may have worked his way into top 100 territory at the Combine. Kuntz now owns the top Relative Athletic Score (RAS) all-time among tight ends, with 4.55 speed, a 40″ vertical, a 10’8″ broad jump, and a 6.87 three-cone at 6’7 3/8″ and 255 pounds. He’s a dangerous seam weapon with rare athleticism. The one concern with Kuntz is his run blocking — that’s an area where he’ll need to improve to become a starter in the NFL””.
Currently his consensus ranking is #138, He had a very good season in 2021 with 73 rec, 692-yds, 9.6-ypc &
5-TDs in 13 games. Considering the current TE situation, I’d think they would consider adding a TE on day 3.
With that kind of profile I am sure they are taking a good look at him. He would be an ideal guy to develop this year to step in next year if they move on from Fant or Dissly.
I don’t think there’s much of a chance Kuntz lasts to day 3.
Mayer, Kincaid, Washington, Kuntz, Laporta, Musgrave all probably go rounds 1-3. Kraft too I’d say.