Well, this is unexpected…
#Lions OC Ben Johnson informed the #Seahawks and #Commanders that he’s staying in Detroit, per sources.
Johnson is still only 37 and will be a hot head coaching candidate again next year. But first, he wants to take another shot at bringing a Lombardi Trophy to Detroit. pic.twitter.com/lPg2Po33sx
— Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) January 30, 2024
As we talked about earlier today, the asking price issue might’ve been a problem. Adam Schefter confirmed that after Johnson made his announcement to return to Detroit. That clarifies why he was saying, ‘not so fast’ on Johnson to Washington. It appears he asked for too much money, neither team were willing to meet his demands, and rather than come across as having made a major error on salary, his agent has convinced his client to try another cycle. That is a huge misjudgement on his behalf, I would suggest. And I’m really disappointed it means he isn’t going to come to Seattle and deliver the kind of creative, productive offense we’ve seen in Detroit.
My other reaction to this is two-fold. Firstly, if you want an offensive-minded Head Coach in Seattle, you’re down to Mike Kafka. That’s it. Secondly, if the Commanders hire Mike Macdonald, then what? The chances of Dan Quinn — or the ‘upset’ Adam Schefter spoke about — is now increasingly likely.
Here are some video thoughts:
If I’m a Lions fan I am absolutely ecstatic right now
However I’m a Seahawks fan and I am bummed
Damn. That sure is disappointing. He could have done wonders in Seattle.
Let’s hope John doesn’t walk out of the meeting with Macdonald without having a deal.
So apparently Josina was closer to the truth than is usually the case.
Good for her
Blind squirrel
No wonder he only had interviews with Washington, Atlanta, and Seattle.
He’s not going to be any hotter of a commodity next year. Strange and possibly stupid decision based on money.
Vrabel – HC
Kafka – OC
Graham – DC
Sounds great
yes please
I’d be excited about that mix.
Gross! Vrabel not going to win a SB ever…why bother?!
LOL, ridiculous comment…Can’t believe JS doesn’t have you on speed dial to get insight before he makes any decisions…
There is no back channel talk between GMs and agents of prospective HCs before the official date to talk?
SEA had no clue his salary desire or him possibly passing on the job?
Would love to know what JS game plan has been for the HC search.
Both WASH and SEA now have egg on their face and are going for the 2nd or 3rd choice.
Hiring coaches as much as a lark as the draft.
Rob – have stats on coaches who pan out? Can’t be high. Or how many are retreads and keeping getting hired?
Quinn is not an offensive guy John….
ABQ
What is ABQ? I’ve seen you post this several times lately but I must admit I haven’t read all of the previous comments in the previous threads.
Based on context clues: Anyone But Quinn
I’m going to lose it if it’s anyone but MM
Mike McCarthy? 🤭
Kwin here we come.
Josina looking a bit more credible now
Guess there may have been some truth to his asking price being too high as Josina Anderson reported. Sure seems like an odd factor for what would be a first-time HC. Maybe he plans on continuing to strengthen his profile to the point that a desperate team will cave to his demands.
It’s all a bit strange to me. He’s 37 and seemingly quite confident. If it’s just about money, I’m surprised at not taking $7-8M per year for 5 years. Establish yourself as the man and then write your own ticket when you are 42. If you bomb out you’ve still made life changing money and can go back to being an OC.
I would have thought that both Seattle and Washington would be super appealing options for different reasons. And a good spot to build for HC contract #2. Always a lot of HC opportunities, but they aren’t always as good as I would expect both these jobs to be.
There are also rumours of him being very cocky and turning teams off. Just really curious if any more about BJ comes out after the fact.
Is it possible that he just didn’t interview as well as expected and knew he wasn’t going to get a job. And this is all spin ala Dan Lanning with the Alabama job? His agent has been very proactive in the past. Just wondering….
That’s awfully honest of you Ben
Yea Ben, thanks for your honesty about your interview.
Hey Peter do you know where you can have a chat with those people online that told you you’re an idiot for saying someone might turn down a head coaching job?
Haha!!! Right.
Also. With respect to us. And we are not unique in sports. But there’s just a chance that not everyone thinks Seattle is some amazing place to live, coach, or otherwise with their time.
I’ve been saying this for a while now. This just all the more confirms that Seattle is vastly overrated and overhyped as a desirable destination.
The city is truly not for everyone. I’ve lived all over and surprise!! A lot if people don’t rate it.
From a team level…if you’re not painting your chest blue and green on game day…. It’s not a great roster, too many over paid underperforming players, no cap, so so draft stock.
Feels like a pretty big risk by Johnson. If Detroit takes a step back next year his head coaching opportunities could dry up. Not that I expect that to happen, but weird things happen in the NFL.
If demanding a certain dollar amount is true, he may have turned himself off from most franchises and severely limited his opportunities. He may get a desperate team to pay the price, but that team will be a dumpster fire and lower his chance of success. Strange move to say the least, if this is all true.
Not sure this will turn off NFL teams, but it turns me off. Imagine the opportunity to lead an NFL team, to guide its destiny and call your own shots – only to settle for a subordinate role. I don’t understand.
He’ll likely have future opportunities, but nothing in life is guaranteed. It’s doubtful he’ll eventually get a better landing spot than either the Commanders or Seahawks.
Or imagine an owner if he gets even better thinking “that’s a guy who is looking to build and has the self knowledge and belief in himself to finish what he started.”
Hats off to Campbell btw for building a culture.
MM interviewed with 7 teams. Johnson with three. I think it’s clear many teams were turned off.
I wonder if he’s got his eye on KC and the prime years of Mahomes. Could be this year, could be next year.
Does this count as an upset?
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Cowherd theorizing he’s gonna wait till next year so a spot with an upper-level quarterback comes open.
If so, he’s gambling on himself to reproduce what he did this year or better.
Likely a safe bet, though GB are on the move in that division.
I was listening. Who with an upper level qb will open? the Chiefs?
He was talking about Caleb Williams being the only sure-fire this draft. So why not stay with Goff? …….because he isn’t a sure thing either… I watched two games that they needed to win and he pissed it down his leg.
I’m just ready to get this headache over and move on.
If Dallas, Buffalo or Philly underachieve/don’t make it over the hump next year, I could see those teams look to move on from their HCs and would be attractive. Or if the Bears get Caleb Williams and he does well but Chicago flops, that could be another option.
Did Johnson set the price and say “I’ll go if they give it; otherwise I’m staying?” or did his agent tell him this is a good strategy. If it’s the latter, he should fire his agent.
ABQ
Lord have mercy please give us Macdonald. If he can do even half of what he has done with the Ravens defense, oh baby
Still if you give him Schotty and Waldron level of OCs, he’ll have Pete results in Seattle. I’m not sure about a defensive HC.
Seattle was 12th in offensive DVOA this year, Dallas (with OC Schotty) was 9th. I’ll take those results all day if coupled with an even above average defense.
JS positioning the team to tank this year and wait to get a legit HC next year and a high draft pick to get Ewers? Lol
Fingers crossed kolde/Allen position themselves to 86 him as GM if he is doing that.
If we hire Quinn, we wouldn’t have to tank. Just let it occur naturally.
💯
Mora 2.0, bold move though could cost John his job…
I feel like this is Johnson saying he’s not thrilled with the offensive players (read QBs as Metcalf, Walker, McLaurin and others are good) on either the Seahawks or the Commanders.
What a slap in the face to our sqaud and roster.
Not at all
This is his agent completely misjudging the salary situation
You think? I know Adam S said this was part of it but say it went like this:
a) Jody and John “we want you to be the coach for 8M a year.”
b) Ben or agent “we’ll do it for 12M, or 15M, or whatever.”
Jody and John (or the Commanders people)’s response is not to further negotiate but to say “we’re moving on?”
My thought is if he really wanted one of the gigs that he’d have come down some. Who knows…
💯
If so, JS probably had flashbacks of Mark Rogers
This is akin to a a home seller in a $500K neighborhood listing his house at $2M. “may as well ask, right?” Wrong.
A good agent would tell the seller to get realistic or get a different agent.
The same guy reps Graham and Eviro too 🙁
It might be as simple as in the end he loves his job, wants to achieve more in Detroit, didn’t quite feel ready for the jobs available, any combination thereof. I don’t think it speaks badly of him or of the teams involved.
💯
Maybe he just gave teams a “don’t want to leave just yet” price.
Well said. I agree.
Haven’t we all at some time felt we had unfinished business in some respect?
I stayed at one job because I loved the commute and I was using it for cycling training.
I turned down another job — a lateral move — because my agent, er, wife wisely pointed out that our kids were well established at the local elementary school (which was within walking distance).
The point is, we don’t really know the entirety of the factors that influenced his decision.
Just spit-balling here but maybe there’s more to the Andy Reid retirement rumors and Johnson wants to take a swing at working with Mahomes in the maybe not too distant future?
There could be more top jobs open in 2025 than you can shake a stick at.
KC, Dallas, Giants (how is Daboll still employed?), maybe Philly if the SuperCoordinators flop, plus this year’s teams if they decide to “Jim Mora Jr” their new hire.
Maybe Buffalo decides they want an offensive head coach
Think he would like to work with Josh Allen?
Oh good call. Maybe.
Honestly their coach should go. Somethings wrong there and it’s probably not Allen.
Very disappointed but we carry on. As selfish as it sounds I’m just glad he’s not going to the Commanders as that would have hurt more.
Please no to Dan Quinn. My respect for what he did for us is huge but it’s time for a new voice.
For two grooms (WSH/SEA) to be left at the altar is humiliating for both. Each will make their hires and say they’re thrilled with who they got but each will know, as will the public, that staying on in DET with a lower title was preferable than being “the guy” with either of their franchises.
Ouch.
I can’t see BJ wanting to turn down both opportunities. Seems like he understood he wouldn’t land either job and has gotten ahead of the negative press by announcing his return.
My whole issue: who has there been to be thrilling? Take out Ben Johnson and there just isn’t anyone to get excited that we hired them. Maybe that is how it is each year with coaching searches and we just didn’t know that since we haven’t look for a new HC in quite a while.
Winner, winner, chicken dinner.
This is a great call
Schefter has spelt it out here
His agent wanted too much money, badly misjudged the situation, now it’s damage limitation
What a F-up
If Johnson is making $3m (as has been reported) as OC in Detroit, and but had say $10-12m on the table to HC, that $7-9m will never be recovered.
First off, oh no only $3m a year poor baby how will he survive on those bread crumbs lol.
Second, if Andy Reid retires or McDermott gets fired or McCarthy gets fired or a million other possible futures where he gets a HC spot and succeeds he’ll recoup that. Or end up with $100m instead of $105m or whatever.
I think a lot of the discourse around this is being very positive about exactly what happens in the future, and that level of uncertainty is unwarranted.
Please don’t lecture me on certainty vs uncertainty when you post your own version of what you think will likely happen.
My scenario is far, far more concrete than yours. Johnson could have / would have tripled his salary at least today. That is guaranteed. What happens in the future is far less guaranteed.
A bird in the hand…
Yeah, I’m not buying the people saying the Hawks and/or commanders blew it in this situation. Johnson not accepting a first time head coaching job either because he wants too much money or hopes for a better situation next year seems like a giant leap of faith on his part.
These Detroit guys love pressing their luck.
Too bad, and not a good look for Johnson.
John’s frequent mentions to “cash limitations” throughout last season is coming back to my memory. I wonder how limited he might be in paying a head coach, especially a first-timer? Paul Allen would spend whatever, but Jody’s situation and obligations as a steward of his wealth are a bit different.
Meh. I haven’t seen many rumours of things changing in Seattle from a $$ perspective with Jody in charge. There have been zero rumblings of players being unhappy with how the franchise spends on extras (which is usually the sign of a cheap franchise). Pete was always rumoured to be one of the better paid HCs in the league. It is entirely reasonable to not be willing to pay Ben $15M a year if that’s what he is asking for without it being a Paul v. Jody issue.
Fair
Dear Agent, what is 10% of 0?
What I don’t get: If Johnson really was your guy, why not give him a contract that pays him 8 Mil in his first year that bumps up to 15 Mil in his second year if he gets at least 9 wins or something like that?
I can’t get behind the fact this was supposedly only about the asking price..
Adam Caplan is here rocking a beard.
WOW major disappointment: i think the SB49 curse is here to stay for awhile:
I wish they had interviewed Slowik a 2nd time. Well either we get Macdonald (which isn’t that spectacular) or an underwhelming candidate.
Today certainly sucks: maybe hire quinn, then fire him and get Ben Johnson next year lol
I think they should have run it back with Geno and Pete. They aren’t competing next year anyways.
They’re going to need a bottoming-out year to get a high enough pick for a QB anyways.
No way. Come on folks. Matt especially you with great takes. All is not lost.
Turned that way pretty fast, didn’t it.
I don’t advocate tanking, but I do think this is the year to unfunk years of mistakes.
Fix the cap – eat the dead money and trim the fat off of the roster.
Work towards acquiring draft capital for next year and make it SOP to have a plan to go into each draft with more than just your native picks every year after (comp picks, trading a 5th for a 6th this year and a 5th next type moves).
You don’t need to bottom out to fix some of these issues. Cap, draft trenches, targeting picks in future years, playing young guys, no job is safe… those aren’t “win now” moves, but they don’t have to be akin to tanking either.
Start taking shots on QBOTF too, even if the plan is to sit him for a year.
If they hire MacDonald, might happen anyways. Not tank, but a year or so of correcting the defense back.
Basically, the Seahawks job will be more attractive in a couple years when the coach they hire this go-around gets fired and they are in position to add a QB.
And also when the rest of the team could be worse?
They can get a quarterback this draft. Saying that they need to tank or go back to Pete, is this what we are rooting for? Chickens with our heads cut off. Oh look, the sky is falling on us.
Basically, yeah. Think about this scenario, which isn’t unlikely:
2024: The Seahawks hire a coach, say a defensive coach. He brings in a whole new staff.
Maybe they add a lower-tier QB in the 2024 draft, maybe they just do another year of Geno. Either way, the team continues to decline but only bad enough to get like the 8th pick.
2025: If they didn’t add a lower-tier QB in 24, maybe they add one here. But they weren’t quite bad enough to add a franchise QB at the top of the 25 draft. The team continues decline and “bottoms out”, earning a top-5 pick.
2026: In this scenario, it’s likely the coach you hired in 2024 is likely fired after 2025, since the team wants a offensive mind to develop the QB they take at the top of the 26 draft. They thank the 2024 coach for his service. They bring in a whole new coaching staff for the second time in 2 years.
I don’t see how this is an ideal scenario for both the Seahawks and the 2024 coaching hire.
Know what throws a wrench in that entire post? You don’t have to pick at your original pick. You can trade up.
Or, you are good enough to scout and you get your guy mid first round, kind of like the Chiefs did. They aren’t complaining. Oh, and they traded up! They knew that little secret.
They aren’t going to just draft late-round qb’s and think that that is acceptable.
Jeez, one guy doesn’t get hired and we are already planning for failure years and years down the road.
maybe we just hire quinn; get a top 5 draft pick in 2025; fire quinn/hire johnson next year.
Unless Johnson that DET offense to lead them back to the NFC title game again, he may have issues garnering the same interest, with teams knowing where his priorities lay. No way JS hires him after publicly spurning our HC opening this year. I’d be somewhat shocked if he didn’t fire his rep before the season starts.
So… the question must be asked, who has to pivot harder: The team with the more playoff ready roster but many questions on defense and QB, or the team with only a few alright pieces on offense but a gluttony of cap space and the #2 overall pick?
At this point, unless meeting with Macdonald generated the confidence that he’s going to be special for the organization, just go with Kafka with Evero as your DC/AHC. We can reassess after the year.
What a mess. I wanted Pete out for a few seasons but the FO may have really botched this process by not pouncing on a new HC years earlier.
Most likely this. About waiting for forever with Pete to get it right again.
Jody should’ve never have given Pete an extension in 2020.
Terrible unnecessary move
💯
ShowMe, the only thing they botched was not interviewing Callahan… otherwise in my book Johnson and Macdonald are the only exciting coaching candidates except Harbaugh. And that wasn’t going to happen with JS waiting 14 years to run the show. Outside of those 4 names, the coaching candidates this year are pretty mediocre.
Then…. why force Pete out if he wanted to stay? If the FO surveyed the likeliest and most interesting candidates for the HC spot and saw that only two names REALLY appealed to them, with a bunch of other potentially unsatisfactory applicants, why make the move to “retire” Pete this offseason?
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been “Thank you but Goodbye Pete” for the last three years but it was critical for the FO to make sure that the quality of likely applicants was up to the task if they were going to replace Pete. If we end up with “Option C,” how does that improve the squad or garner excitement from the public or the players? They need(ed) a big splash. Only a big splash would generate a buzz that would overcome the post-Pete malaise. Now, they’re in a corner because the biggest fish decided (through his own faculties or his rep’s zealousness) not to take the bait.
It doesn’t, from some of the other comments on other threads, it looks like Pete let it be known that he was going to retire this year back in the Oct/Nov. Then they didn’t make the playoffs and he changed his mind, but ownership / JS had moved on.
My main point was that this year’s group of HC candidates was not deep, as Rob has quite convincingly written, every one of them has downsides. Timing, Luck, and Circumstance; it’s hard to look into the future and get all three right!
My preference at this point:
Kafka – HC
Bienemy – OC
Graham – DC
You’ll have two guys that come from Andy Reid’s KC offense and a smart DC in Graham who seems to get the most out of the talent he has. I’d rather have something like this than a Defensive minded coach like Quinn or McDonald. I’m starting to worry that the Hawks are going to sit on their hands too long and other teams are going to start hiring these guys to fill their staffs.
People keep bringing up Graham, but he’s currently DC of the Raiders and I doubt he’d make a lateral move.
That’s true, but it’s always possible they could offer him a slightly higher paying title and he might accept. It doesn’t make that much of a difference to me if it’s Graham, Evero, etc. I just want an offensive minded HC and I like the thought of former KC guys that have worked with young QB’s. I believe Kafka and Bienemy would be able to put together a fantastic offense.
Out of all of the coaches, Bienemy is the one I know for sure that won’t happen.
C’mon, you know for sure? It’s not like the guy has a criminal record or something. Sure, he hasn’t gotten any head jobs, but he’s still a great offensive mind that guided some great KC teams. Don’t understand why nobody even considers him.
No one is talking about him…That’s how I know. He has been linked to 0 jobs. I’m not sure why you are interested in him.
McDonald -HC
Mark Brunell- OC
DC- whoever?
Or
Quinn -HC
Chip Kelly- OC
DC- whoever
My hope is Ben Johnson lowers his salary request and comes to Seattle.
Completely hypothetical, maybe part of him does want to run it back with Detroit but I also wonder if he’s speculating on some potential vacancies next year that fit more with what he wants in a position. Looking at northeast teams that could be in need of a new coaches if they underwhelm:
1. Giants – Brian Daboll
2. Jets – Robert Saleh
3. Eagles – Nick Sirianni
4. Steelers – Mike Tomlin
Perhaps those locations are more appealing to him than Washington or Seattle. Although I’m not sure why you would risk it if you are considered the top candidate for this year’s coaching cycle.
On a different note, did the Washington crew even make it to Detroit to talk to him today before he made his decision?
If it was about the NE and NC specifically, maybe he’s waiting for Tepper to sell the Panthers!
Rob, if this truly did just come down to salary, do you think the Seahawks would have met his asking price if he really blew their hair back? Or would that have shifted the power too much to Johnson’s side right at the beginning?
I don’t — I think it’s a bit rich for him to ask for $15m if that’s what it was
Unless MM is the clear choice, I’d re-open and revisit with candidates. Look at Slowick or Vrabel again.
I don’t think they ever interviewed Vrabal.
The team didn’t need to advertise that it set up an interview with Vrabel…for all we know JS may have had clandestine meetings with Vrabel.
I don’t think they ever spoke to Vrabel, did they? Of the retreads, I would much prefer him to Quinn. At least we know that Vrabel’s players buy in and will fight like hell for him.
what a wild ride… i’m blowing chunks all over myself, but can’t ignore the excitement and drama!
there’s gotta be a candidate that we’re not thinking of… canadian league?
richard sherman?
😂😂
So considering I’m seeing some “just bring Pete back” comments here, how many of those are going to be on other sites? Don’t think I’ll go elsewhere for a while
We’re gonna be hearing “should’ve kept Pete” for a long time
Pete Carroll is a better coach than Dan Quinn and he was already here and setup. Doesn’t matter at this point.
He may have already been here, but it was obvious for the last several years that his team was getting worse and worse each year. He had to go. Neither Seattle or DC knew that Johnson’s agent was going to botch it this bad and remove the best candidate from the pool of possible HCs. That kind of thinking is what had Pete still here after the good years.
Yes. The Seahawks are in a downward trajectory, don’t have a QB and aren’t going to be able to add one this off-season. Any coach who signs here is actually risking a lot.
Seahawks should have taken Levis with the JSN pick last year. Would have been a more attractive position this off-season.
How do you know they won’t add a QB this year?
There are several interesting options that could be available at their pick, they also could move up if they decide they really like somebody.
Levis is an intriguing player, I doubt he would be the difference in attracting a coach though
Who. Who are they going to add at QB.
Let me ask this, is Spencer Rattler a better prospect than Levis was last year? I don’t think so, both are old with uneven/unproven college production but Levis is miles ahead of Rattler in physical tools.
I suppose they could trade their pick for Justin Fields but that is meh. He’s just not a good passer.
If they draft Spencer Rattler, the trajectory reverses…
Get a franchise QB and you don’t need a coach
Pete Carroll got fat from having absolute power. He lost his edge several years ago, maybe more. The whole franchise had gone stale, suffered from an irreversible creeping malaise.
That said, Quinn is definitely not the answer either.
Pete’s gone. That ship has sailed. You can’t bring him back. It’s been 5 years since I had any expectations of a Seahawks team. I’m so so happy with trying something different. We know Pete wasn’t working, why keep trying the same thing over and over again with the same results?
I don’t share the sentiments of those that would want Pete back…. but I understand where it comes from. The FO really f’d this process up. We needed something big to set a new course and unless Macdonald comes aboard (who carries obvious questions but is a big name this hiring cycle) or we decide to finally give Vrabel a call (who wouldn’t be my choice but carries enough cache to garner some excitement), we won’t get it.
Kafka/Graham/Evero may be the guy (and potentially not even a bad hire) but that’ll land like a bird dropping on the collective Seattle fandom.
Outside of Morris, all the names the Seahawks were attached to are still available. How did they f this up? Change was needed.
Change was needed. Waiting weeks to interview someone that wanted too much and would rather stay an OC when that information could’ve been obtained through his rep a week ago is f’ing up the process and makes the FO look amateur.
Do we know that all this information was known weeks ago? Is there any chance it developed more recently? There isn’t one candidate that’s been hired that I’m crying about missing out on. I don’t understand all this sudden angst or blowback that somehow the Seahawks have pooped the bed by being patient and waiting for the most exciting coordinators to be available. I’m still happy with the process.
Remember that when the Mora hiring flamed out spectacularly, there were a lot of the collective Seattle fandom that did not want a HC that failed twice in the NFL and left a flaming mess at USC. I don’t really give a damn what the collective thinks as long as the team gets it right. And let’s face it, there really is no sure thing.
Yes, but Carroll was a Paul Allen hire and had recently won a collegiate national title. Much higher credentials than anyone in this hiring cycle.
And let’s be honest, some of that blowback when Pete was hired was a bit of Husky Homer sentiment.
I’m not sure how Seattle is to blame for Johnson deciding to stay in Detroit? How have they screwed up this process so far? They seem to be doing an in depth search and not settling right away for someone familiar like Quinn. Now obviously they could still do that and I’d be disappointed if that was the choice. So far though nobody hired is somebody I feel like the Hawks missed out on
I’m disappointed Johnson won’t be the guy too, I’m just not sure how it’s Seattle’s fault.
💯If anything Pete messed it up by not retiring earlier, or Jody for not moving on earlier. It’s not John’s fault the year it happens the candidates are slim pickings.
It’s completely the FO’s responsibility to assess exactly WHO will be available to take over your team when the opening is created. They’ve waited additional time to be publicly spurned. If the team knew they were moving on from Pete earlier in the season, they had a responsibility to make sure they hit the dates required to be able to interview Macdonald and Johnson before this week. Pete should’ve been out once the final Week 18 whistle was blown. That’s totally on the front office.
Agree. Starting to feel a tiny bit like John, master poker player and most respected gm in the league might not have a great clue in this process.
I heard a lot about Seattle being super desirable but we’re turningdown/getting spurned by one coach and doing a cross country travel to talk to a guy with no known connections.
Or Dan Quinn because he’s all John knows.
Hope I’m wrong.
Whelp, I guess it’ll just have to be Deion Sanders.
I don’t think they need someone big at this point. Just bring someone in to oversee the decline and bottoming-out process while they earn the higher picks necessary to add a QB. Basically an interim lame-duck coach like Mora was.
At least Pete would have been able to turn the roster over with hungry guys with the traits they like in the meantime, similar to what he did in 2010-11 before they found Russ.
Pete couldn’t even do that. Hadn’t in over 5 years, why would he be able to again?
We have no idea how any of the candidates will do in Seattle. The NFL is riddled with HC success stories from hires that were not the hot candidate in the cycle. I’m old enough to remember when Arthur Smith was the hot OC hire and Staley was the hot DC hire. Lose me with the chicken little sky is falling routine just because Ben Johnson didn’t want the job (or John didn’t want him).
I have my favourites like everyone else. But it’s entirely possible that any of MM, Evero, Graham, Kafka, DQ or Vrabel come here and have success. DQ is my least favourite of the guys, and he damn near won a SB with a non-sexy (at the time of hiring) OC. Is there a chance he hires a good OC and DC again? It’s way more than non-zero.
Thank you! All these folks absolutely losing their minds like Johnson was The Chosen One and not getting him means we’re doomed to failure are being pretty unreasonable.
What a crackers post.
Wasting years of a roster that is 80% there waiting for a QB that may or may not be the next messiah.
And no Pete probably wouldn’t be able to do that, because if he could, he’d still be in a job already.
And now we have to compete with Commanders for Mike MacDonald, where he maybe wouldn’t even need to move houses. Blech.
I understand why the Commanders would be a more attractive place for Ben Johnson than the Seahawks.
I think its less likely that Seattle loses a beauty contest to Washington for MM. They have some exciting young pieces on D to work with, and I think the culture/stability piece will be appealing to a guy that comes from a place like Baltimore. I have confidence in JS hooking MM if that’s the guy he wants (and there has been some smoke for awhile that JS was more serious about MM than BJ).
Here’s a thought: he set the price so high that it’s saying that he really didn’t want to leave (excepting desperation money from the Hawks or Commanders). While he’s likely getting a promotion in title and salary in Detroit, here’s another thought: Mack Brown is 72 and at some point, he’ll retire at UNC. While a head coaching job in college won’t have the salary of an NFL job, the prospect of coaching at your alma mater may be appealing to him.
With the NIL and transfer portal? I can’t imagine an NFL coach would want to go to college and deal with those headaches. I’m surprised we haven’t seen more prominent college coaches try to escape to the NFL, but wouldn’t be surprised if that starts to happen in the next couple years unless the NCAA gets a better system in place.
Agree
Guessing the current college climate contributed to Saban stepping down.
If Johnson made that big a miscalculation—or couldn’t see that his agent had done so—maybe it’s for the better that he won’t be making the big decisions in Seattle.
I don’t get it. If I’m BJ, I tell my agent: you work for me–now ask them both for their best offers and we choose the one I like now.
Unless he really believes his agent that by showing he is willing to walk away from a deal and stay in DET unless a team meets his asking price, one of the teams will cave and give it to him…
This whole fiasco makes very little sense.
I can’t see them going public with “I’m staying in Detroit to win a SB” narrative, if they’re also saying the bidding is still open to SEA/WAS.
Surely if he was our top candidate and knowing that WAS was coming to meet with him today, JS must have extended some offer. He pulled his name out of the hat before even meeting with WAS as well.
Washington Post reporter.
B$
I hate to tell him, but here come the Packers….
Ha, this was Detroit’s year.
It’s VERY hard to get to that point.
Now the Lions are certainly closer than either the Seahawks or Commanders, but I’m the coaching is the biggest reason that the Lions are not in the Super Bowl this year.
That will be the same next year.
They didn’t even make it to their meeting with him today before he announced it.
If this was an agent screw up, it could have other ramifications in this process:
Flowers’ clients include Jets coach Robert Saleh, Dolphins coach Mike McDaniel, Chargers coach Brandon Staley, Broncos coach Nathaniel Hackett as well as Packers OC Adam Stenovich, Broncos OC Justin Outten, Lions OC Ben Johnson, Dolphins OC Frank Smith, Raiders DC Patrick Graham and Broncos DC Ejiro Evero, as well as many other position coaches throughout the league.
That’s at least Graham and Evero, maybe Smith… along with about 50 others who aren’t listed. Kafka isn’t with him and no idea on Mike Macdonald.
Interestingly, the commanders only have one offensive candidate too.
Hey Siri show me a recent example of bad PR damage control.
Ok, here’s what I found…
Is Ben Johnson then making an inferential statement about Seattle’s roster?
How is that bad damage control?
He didn’t even talk to the commanders. I think it’s possible that his agent screwed up and….he doesn’t think us or WAS are close.
It’s pretty clear his agent overplayed their hand and it backfired spectacularly.
This is a predictable fallback position.
But you’re free to interpret it differently. I’m not offended nor do I think it’s a knock at the Seahawks.
It’s not clear to me.
He chose not to talk to WAS at all. Perhaps he dud overplay his hand with Seattle. So that presumes his only choice was Seattle and he screwed that up?
Still doesn’t account for turning down an interview with WAS.
Because there’s still something none of us will know. The John component in this process.
I have long found it odd that John’s not talked to anyone with a big presence and/or deep coaching connections.
While I think it’s very likely that Ben Johnsons agent overplayed their hand there’s a thought I’ve had for some time about John “being in control,” of the coaches.
And the common thing the best coaches have is the gm is not hiring their staff.
Ya, not meeting with WAS doesn’t fit with – ‘demanded too much money and was ruled out’
Wanting to believe that – money isn’t everything – to many people, I actually take it at face value. He wants to finish what they were so close to this year, is loyal to Campbell, his team and the organization that gave him his first big shot, while also not being in love with either current option.
That being said, there probably was a number that would have done it. The kind of guaranteed money that would set his family up for generations. Maybe the agent said, let me see if I can get that for you and if not we’re right back in MoTown anyway.
Or, it can just as easily be explained that Johnson is a family man and that Johnson’s wife, after talking it over with him after the Seahawk visit, told him she didn’t want to move to Seattle or DC.
At this point, what’s the best thing that can happen?
Slowik is apparently not a wunderkind interview.
Kafka? Seems underwhelming, but possible.
Quinn/Kelly? We can start talking about who’s next in ’27.
College guy? Unlikely.
Clusterfudge.
My vote is for the real wonder kid, Nathan Shelley.
If we miss out on Macdonald.
I’d prefer Patrick Graham as HC & then Kafka as Assistant HC/OC.
Atleast some form of those two together.
No Quinn!
Thanks so much for all the amazing content Rob. It’s been incredible during this huge transition for our Seahawks.
I’d be on board with this too, despite the fact that we’re going to run into the OC poaching problem at the first signs of success.
Unless we’re close enough to the Super Bowl that our genius OC spurns offers from other teams.
Good call. As of today there is that precedent.
Any chance Schneider circles back around to any of the candidates that were in the first round?
Is there anything to be made of the timing of this?
Ben Johnson:
-Has virtual interviews with Seattle & Washington
-Has an in-person with Seattle
-Decides he is out
-Washington doesn’t get the chance to in-person (they’re on a plane to Detroit right now)
After the Seattle in-person/before the Washington in-person.
Hmmm
Stating the obvious a bit, but likely he didn’t want Washington to begin with, hoped to used them to poker with us, that didn’t work out.
This….
And before the Seahawks interview, the ground that “Johnson is not a lock” started going around.
….and this.
Perhaps he already knew, from his connection to the new GM of the Commanders, what the Commanders were willing to pay. When Seattle told him last night that his asking price was a nonstarter and left, he lost his leverage with the Commanders to increase their max. So, before the news breaks that both declined, Johnson’s agent goes into damage control to try and put a “loyal guy, competitor” spin to the story.
I think this is correct. The only way he could hope to get his number was to leverage one team against the other. Last night Seattle declined his number. And presumably he declined their counter.
Once that happened, he had no leverage with Washington.
If we ever here it was pure leverage then Ben sucks as a coach candidate. WAS with top picks, cash, tons of extrapicks should have been enough.
Want 15 million? Go win something and get paid.
Also possible
Because he doesn’t wait to hear offer from Washington? Think Seattle turned him down/wouldn’t meet his price?
It is odd that he was willing to interview with Seattle yesterday, then made the decision to pull out before Washington got the chance for the second interview today. If he wanted to pull out because he loves Detroit/Quinn and wants to win a Super Bowl there, you’d imagine he would have done it when emotions were highest after losing the game and before interviewing Seattle, not after.
Maybe John took off his shirt meeting Ben, like Pete with DK?
That’d put me off, too.
Do we know how much Schneider makes per year? Just curious as that would be a little awkward paying a coach with no experience twice as much as the GM. I could totally see how that could put people off.
4.5 million, and he’s one of the highest paid GMs.
Thanks – wasnt aware GM’s made so little comparatively speaking.
Ben Johnson = Josh McDaniel 2.0?
McDaniel accepted a job then backed out. Completely different than just not taking the job.
The worst part of losing out on Johnson? Luring some of those FA OL from Detroit to come play for him here.
Sigh.
Could be money, could also be power BJ is asking for. Seems very unlikely JS would want to concede any roster decision power, doubt the new commanders guy would want that either.
And maybe BJ loves the Detroit situation, is inspired to keep working it and as a result is asking for the moon to get him to walk away.
Looks like the agent wanted teams to Pay the Gold Price…
Schneider’s plane left Baltimore apparently, for the curious.
What if Seahawks turned him down and he never wanted the commanders job. He was just interviewing with them to turn up his price. He could be not happy with the Commanders offensive pieces, while the Seahawks have good offensive players he wanted to work with.
I think it’s pretty clear what’s happened here. Salary demands too high. Needs a new agent
What a bummer. And Johnson’s agent f’d up big time. At this point, I see only a few options that I’m ok with (in no particular order of preference):
HC: Vrabel; OC: Bieniemy/Kafka
HC: Macdonald; OC: Bieniemy/Kafka
HC: Kafka; DC: Graham/Eviro
Unless they decide to circle back to Slowik. Anything outside of those, I will blow a gasket.
Having family from Michigan and having gone thru the lowest of lows of Seahawks fandom till 2013, if the Lions win the SB next year, he will be a legend in Detroit and teams will be crawling over themselves to Pay the Gold Price. Long odds, but if he does it, my bet is he’ll have a new agent by then.
Some video reaction:
https://youtu.be/a6ciojqDRAI?si=vVrzVRouai6S5GQE
Kind of the mood I’m in right now too. Thanks for the thoughts.
Mike Kafka seems to me like the best alternative at this point. Especially with helping to develop Patrick Mahomes and turning Daniel Jones into a solid playoff QB for a year with a receiving core like the one we had in 2008. He would also have more freedom to run the system he feels is best as watching a conversation with him on the Giants YouTube channel it feels more like he’s doing a balancing act of his own desires and those of Brian Daboll.
If we can get Graham or Eviro to be his DC, I agree.
Do coaches salaries impact the salary cap at all?
They don’t
Great coverage, Rob! I wonder what we’re waiting on at this point. I just want to be in the know.
Per Dan Graziano on ESPN just now: Outside of Mike Macdonald, Mike Kafka is the name to watch in Seattle.
Graziano also predicted Vrabel to Seattle early in the process, so take this for what it’s worth.
FWIW
“Longtime Commanders Insider” Mike Phillips of 910am in Virginia was on a live reaction pod to Johnson saying he’s staying in Detroit. He got a text live that said “Kafka interviewed very well” and he’s a name to consider.
Senior Bowl 1on1: OT Christian Jones, Texas looked good . Or maybe the DL players were not great.
Seems pretty insulting, breaking the news when the Commanders are in the air. Not communicating the price firmly upfront, conduct interviews and tell all the teams to pound sand?
Even if he is waiting for better prospects next year, not a great initial impression to make with owners and league execs.
The arrogance of Ben “flea flicker” Johnson. The line between necessary aura to lead men and being a spoiled little piggy.
moronic agent
Time to set that second interview with Slowik!
What I get out of this, is Seattle is well and truly screwed. Schneider and us fans are going to be stuck with either Kafka–baaarf–or a DC as Coach.
IF, and it’s a big IF, Seattle lucks into a good OC, they will get poached before we can win a SB, and the whole house of cards will collapse again…
I’m sick of this. I think Jody has tightened the purse strings, and it’s hamstringing the team in many ways, not just in missing out on your top HC.
Until the team is sold and we get a totally new regime–including a new GM–I fear we’re going back to being stuck as a second-tier team for years.
I’m not looking forward to a defensive HC or Kafka. I’m sick of boring, inept football. I watched barely half the games–my lowest total since pre-Hasselbeck–and it’s looking like next year I won’t even bother to watch more than a couple games. What’s the point? This team isn’t going to do squat in the playoffs with Quinn or Kafka and this Ownership group.
Sell the team, Jody. Before the stands start emptying….
Overreaction much?
Took bery amateur some videp to upload to YouTube.
I’m hoping they give Slowik another interview before making a decision..
At the very least, I’d really like to hear a post-mortem on why Slowik disappeared off the face of the earth. Not just for the Seahawks, but for the NFL.
Did he scuttle it by saying he wants another year with Stroud? Does he also feel like this year was Houston’s 2012?
Or was there something else? Too fast a riser and everyone felt he needs another year as a coordinator?
At this point would John go back and interview other candidates again maybe Slowik instead of hiring the boring uninspiring Quinn? If Quinn is hired my sundays are going to be open no more games to watch only going to look at the box score.
I’m also not against Kafka as a hire either just anyone but Quinn for me.
Would it be out of the realm to see a pairing of:
Quinn-HC
Kafka or Brunell-OC
DC- whoever
Schneider still may hold some cards in some staff appointments. I’m definitely not on board with Chip Kelly as OC, but in defense of that notion, we wouldn’t ever have to worry about a revolving door of young OC’s being poached for HC positions.
No, we’d have to worry about Kelly being fired this time next year instead
https://giphy.com/gifs/sbnation-hungry-11JUl2MQweiDte
Pondering all the news and comments, the fact that Ben Johnson did not come visit the SeaHawks at the Renton facility, and instead JS traveled to Detroit to have a meeting with Johnson there, would indicateJS already was aware of Johnson’s unavailability, whether due to salary demands or some other possible reason – many of which have been presented in these comments. Macdonald is intriguing, although he has also not (yet) visited VMAC. His demeanor reminds one of Dallas one-time coach, Tom Landry – calculating but unreadable; fitting for a defense mind touted as a “defensive Sean McVay”. Perhaps we need to pivot to the unknown wildcard possibility for the answer. Could the next best candidate be David Shaw, former Stanford HC, NFL assistant et al? Certainly a well-qualified and available individual who is under-the-radar
Teams often travel to meet candidates
Quite true. Perhaps I am reading too much into it. Originally it made sense that JS might race to Detroit in a supreme effort to seal a deal. But the fact that Johnson’s announcement came before the Commanders even had a chance for a second interview made me think otherwise. Thus my suggestion that, as you have often speculated, JS has a “surprise” candidate who is not yet revealed. David Shaw came to mind; I am sure there could be many others. P.S. Your reporting and analysis is top-shelf…thank you!
I wonder who announces their hire first. Is it simply a bidding war for Mike McDonald and he’ll be announced first? I hope we learn soon.
Great video Rob.
I feel that way that due diligence is all well and good but if ends up Quinn what was the point all along.
But….Pete and John also starred in tge Hangover 7 where they I guess trolled teams and fans by pal-ing around with the top 4 qbs with no real intent of drafting any of them.
And Rattler throws and INT in Senior Bowl practice 😭
Well, if he is not going to Seattle, I am glad he is staying with the lions. I am a big Lions fan.
So now I am hoping for MacDonald or Vrabel.
Not interesting in Quinn as the HC. Maybe Seattle could hire Quinn as their DL coach.
I think here’s the harsh reality of this franchise…
Ownership uncertainty
Following a legendary coach
Middling roster
Aging, middle of the road QB
Not bad enough to blow it up
Not good enough you’re a piece away
Lack of draft capital & cap space
Put yourself in a young coach’s shoes…would you want to take this over? Wouldn’t you rather inherit a mess with the ability to put your fingerprints all over the team? Or do you want to inherit purgatory with limited resources to put your own mark on it?
Not trying to be a downer, but we are a bit in no man’s land which is why we might be settling for a guy like Quinn, who himself is in no man’s land as an HC candidate.
This is why the last 5 years pissed me off. The worst place you can be in the NFL is middling. We seem to be witnessing the repercussions of “holding on” for too long.
I think that’s a pretty negative light to see a franchise with a lot of positives and pieces in place.
We’re not a piece away, but I refer back to Rob’s article that we’re not years away from contending either and, with smart decisions, the turnaround can be quite swift.
Yeah smart decisions. Let’s start seeing them.
All fair points.
Folks seem to forget that Pete basically got a free roster to do what he wanted.
Coming to Seattle is going to take a chunk of work yet you get to be compared by the pete-legiom to him every step of the way.
There are 32 positions, the majority of which are unavailable, and those with franchise QB’s rarely become available. You gonna put your career advancement, years of your life, and tens of millions of dollars on hold waiting for your dream job?
Fair point, unless you are the prodigy guy who can afford to wait it out. I think Johnson is that guy.
I completely agree if you’re Callahan or Kafka or Canales.
💯 This is where I strongly disagree with SDB and many of the sharp Seahawks Fans who are on this board regularly. This roster has a lot of holes and it will be easier said then done to shift their resources from Safety and Tight End to the Trenches and QBoTF.
No really that hard: get rid of the old dead weight and replace it with the right positions.
We got rid of the main reason we couldn’t do it. You bring in a young guy, first thing he will do is cut the lazy and the unnecessary.
Unfortunately, we lack the resources (draft picks and cap space) to just immediately replace everyone with better players. It’s going to be require this upcoming draft plus next year before a new coach can start to aim for the Conf playoffs.
Luke McCaffrey ran 20..17
Devontez Walker 21.18
Maybe what Johnson really wants (besides the money…) is the chance to work with an established top QB. He’s already shown what he can do with the Jared Goffs of the league, so maybe he’s thinking imagine what I could cook up on offense with a real star at QB.
If anyone outside of a team like that (Chiefs, Bills, etc.) wanted him, they would have to simply make him an offer he couldn’t refuse. No team was willing. On to saving face and the next coaching cycle (or maybe right after the SB if Reid retires…) for him and his agent.
Him to the Bills could be devastating to the league. Their play calling, to me, is the worst in the NFL.
Now put him in charge of the offense with Josh Allen? Wow.
I would make John coach the team at this point, like Seattle GM Mcormack did at the end of the season in the early 80s. He wanted to stay as HC, but they made him go back to GM and brought in Knox, which was genius.
Theres no HC candidate worth cheering for, so make John sort the mess and look for a coach next year. I don’t want to see Metcalf and Lockets careers wasted with a DC coach and a new OC every year or two….
Are you going to not cheer for whoever they hire then?
No. If they bring in Quinn or Bellicheat or Vrabel, there’s no point: I don’t believe any of them have the ability to win a SB. the only guys I’m even slightly interested in are Evero and Mcdonald–and even if they get a magic OC, they’ll get poached before we can get a SB.
I’m going to end up hoping the coach sucks bad enough to get fired immediately, so we can try out the OC as interim and look for a better HC next year…
I’m not interested in watching Hopeless, inept football any more. Seattle went through ages of that after Knox and Homgren, and the last 7 years with Carrol: I’ve had enough.
Im right there with you, I would be intrigued by Vrabel, I just cant stomach the thought of Quinn. I see no reason to waste my time on Sunday watching as Hugh Millen rightly put it “JV PC” (referring to Dan Quinn). Anybody trying to convince themselves on Quinn is just huffing massive amounts of Copium.
We finally get what we want with Pete being gone, and they are most likely going to hire Kafka or MacDonald. But I guess that isn’t good enough already.
This is getting ridiculous.
I think I’m going to have to stop with SDB.
The common thread is Rob and his excellent articles about Johnson. Or his detailed analysis of draft prospects only to watch Lj collier get picked.
I kid.
And I feel you.
Sure I’m not into Quinn. He let’s games down. Multiple. In big spots. Sort of the cousins effect.
But basically everyone else in a lot of combinations….I’m stoked. The only actual problem with Macdonald is the OC poaching. There’s nothing else really.
Exactly. I’ll be excited for him changing the defense, making them tough. Building through the trenches. He’ll know that he’ll still need to pump into the offense and what a top-talent qb can do to a team that might focus on defense.
Some others are intriguing enough that I’m not going to go stand on the edge of the cliff. Not really the team’s fault that they fired Pete and the job market was just bad. They’ll still be better off with anyone else than where they were.
I’d hate to think how other pages are going seeing how this one is going….
Ah yes, notable huge loser *checks notes* Bill Belicheck.
The wild overreactions in this thread are crazy.
I detest Bellicheat, and he hasn’t won since Brady left. Even if he still had it, I wouldn’t support Seattle if they Hired him. They won’t, so thank goodness.
In my field (History), you get hired then you have a window in which you apply for tenure. You may not want to “put yourself up” for tenure in year one or two or even three. You may want to find your feet, so to speak. You may want to iron out a few things, perhaps deal with family stuff, figure out your own limitations and / or research interests.
Same with a young OC? Maybe he didn’t feel the urgency… maybe he felt he owed Campbell and the Lions another kick at the can? There are many possible explanations and insufficient data, atm.
The musical chairs dwindled down to 2 and now the candidates are dwindling as well as all the coaches being added to staffs around the league each day. Not ideal. I wonder why we did such a thorough search and did not interview Vrabel? This can’t drag out much longer or we will be patching together an inadequate “reach” HC with the “scrubs” of the coaches left to fill out a staff. Worried but still have faith in JS.
Its getting more and more difficult for me to have “faith” in JS. For me, he needs to prove why he supposedly is “respected” around the league. So far, I havent seen anything that is particularly convincing. If we have to settle for a sub par HC like Quinn, then JS ultimately failed at this.
If he hires Quinn, I’ll agree and i think it’ll play out as we expect. If he hires anyone else, I’ll at least have hope.
ABQ
I’m certain he’s desperately concerned about what some rando in a comment section with no insight into the actual process thinks about his performance. Absolutely desperate to prove himself to you. Lol
While I get your drift. If he selects Quinn and there’s not a matter change in team performance or Quinn big game process….it will be a failure since we already did this once before.
John doesn’t have to care what “some rando,” thinks. But he will have to care what a ton of fans selling their tickets means and what Vulcan thinks of that.
And of course to the folks that disagree…I also think if he fails it severely limits his options going forward. As the GM who was only successful because of Pete.
He doesn’t have to prove himself to me or be concerned with me, the fanbase and the results on the field will tell the tale. With Quinn we have a pretty good idea how this will go based on his track record.
Your “above the fray” comments are actually quite humorous…
I’d look for Ben Johnson to the Chicago Bears in 2025. That roster will be ready to rock.
That would certainly be at direct odds with Schefter’s “Johnson is loyal” Tweet for him to leave and HC a division rival.
And if they draft Caleb and their coach does well and isn’t fired? That position won’t be available.
Fact of business keep optimism.
We have a head coach right here in Seattle. Js etc all need to pull up their big boy pants, or whatever, and say I’m sorry.
We can get a clone of Hurt (if you can clone a nose and sheep you can clone a man), and hire that kid that used to sit behind you in 5th grade as DC, namely me.
Damage control in full force. BJ’s agent should have just posted this on X himself it’s so obvious… 😂
Loyal, not in it for the money… but they couldstill opt to adjust his contract… LOL. He really needs a new agent ASAP!
Sometimes, that Schefter is such a lapdog.
I do wonder though, if this was really all about the money why is staying the best option? The Seahawks and Commanders clearly still had interest but he’s opted to stay on with a job on less pay.
My take is that he loves it in Detroit and only intends to leave for a massive deal or a can’t miss opportunity. Which I guess neither the Seahawks or Commanders could offer him.
If Mike MacDonald becomes the Seahawks head coach, will he bring in a Nose Tackle to play Nose Tackle?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Need a big boy, maytag double door big boy
It could also just be an excuse so Johnson doesn’t have to say out loud that he isn’t interested in either franchise. Washington is just not a well run organization and Seattle might get sold out from under him. Neither may look attractive.
If he stays in Detroit and has another good run at it, something better would probably open up next year.
Ben Johnson was my preferred candidate. If I could have picked a new HC it would have been him. I’m disappointed that he chose to stay (although that’s way better than going to the Commies).
But the histrionics and hubris in this thread are astounding. People swearing off watching the team, people with absolute crystal clear certainty about the next ten years of results, people completely convinced that any degree of success is impossible with anyone other than him. It’s ludicrous.
I’ll be really disappointed if it’s Quinn. But other than that there’s a world of intriguing options.
Kafka could be the next Shanahan held back by Daboll doing his Joe Judge impression: who cares if his mom thinks he’s boring?
Macdonald has demonstrated an ability to maximize JAGs like Clowney and impressed the people like Matty Brown who are way smarter than I am at scheme, maybe he’ll be the McVay of defense?
Eviro and Graham have put in great showings under terrible circumstances, maybe it’s time to zig while the rest of the league is zagging and get a defensive mind to counter punch instead of getting in an arms race?
Ultimately all I’m asking is for a little sanity, and a little humility. I get being disappointed: I am too! But not only do we have a complete lack of real information or insight into the process, even if we did there’s no guarantees. This is a draft blog! We’ve all fell in love with can’t miss prospects who turned into huge busts. Let’s slow down on the certainty and have an open mind that good things may be yet to come.
Please don’t lecture anyone about how to feel about a situation.
People have every right to be upset or frustrated with the developments of today.
If you think these words are set in stone and there is no room in life just to vent and then reset a bit, I don’t think this is a place for you.
So it’s ok to have opinions and feelings, as long as they’re catastrophizing and not hopeful or moderate? Cool got it.
Yes both sets of feelings are fine.
What is not ok is what is lecturing others about their feelings. Just cool it a bit, is all I’m saying.
40 years of watching football says I don’t have to keep an open mind. 7 years of ugly boring Pete Ball has burnt me out. As a fan, there is no requirement to keep an open mind, or to blindly support a clueless ownership group or a flailing front office. Carrol should have been canned years ago, and this fiasco is a direct result of a Team unwilling to make bold decisions.
If they come out the gates and start winning and playing great football, great: eventually I’ll watch. But if and when they make an uninspiring hire, I’m not about to blindly support that same front office and ownership group. Put out a great product, or get ignored.
There is a difference between having or not having an open mind and just flat out saying that you are going to root for them to lose so this new coach (who we don’t even know who it is yet) gets fired. How long you have been a fan of a team means zero.
But you can wait until they are good and then hop back on I guess. I’ll watch the new guy enough for the both of us.
If they get a crummy coach, and you want to watch every snap, go right ahead. But the only way to impact Ownership is to stop watching, stop buying gear, and ignore them until things change.
I’ve already sat through years of awful Seahawks teams with no hope, from Flores, to Erickson, to late career Holmgren and Carrol, to Mora. I’m not willing to sit through more. I’ve got better ways to spend my Sundays.
But if you feel you’ll earn some kind of Special Fan badge watching no matter what, feel free.
We have zero clue how good the coach will be if it is anyone but Quinn. To say anything otherwise is just ignorant. By all means, feel free to have doubts. But don’t sit and root for them to fail immediately. And then say that when they get better, I’ll hop right back on the bandwagon.
Take time off if you need to, just don’t be the guy that is sitting there wanting it all to burn down with no current basis to have that mindset. We got the change that we asked for and people are already whining without the process being done.
As I said, you don’t get anything special for being a fan for longer than others. There IS a difference for rooting for or against a team, though.
In life, you don’t turn your back when times get tough.
You do you. But personally, I have never understood conditional fandom. In life, you want to ride with people who are in it through thick and thin.
Again, after 40 years, I’m over it. When you get that far, you still won’t have suffered through the Nordstroms and Behring Ownerships.
Having stuck with them through all of the past, the last 7 years have really bled my optimism and excitement.
I no longer see value in blindly supporting lousy coaches, bumbling front offices, or awful ownership.
Rob is right that you have to try to find a great coach, even if that means it takes hiring the wrong guy first. You keep trying. That’s why, depending on the hire, I might just be left hoping for a one year burn and churn.
I have no stomach for mediocrity or ineptness. I don’t think that makes me a fair weather fan, certainly not when I’ve already done the blind loyalty thing for 4 decades, but you can think what you like.
The years really take a toll at times.
I’ll never forget watching the late-night news, and being shown the Seahawks trucks departing the facility for California, then going to bead with a sense of dread. And then getting up at the crack of dawn and getting the newspaper to see what was happening.
Now that the PC era I think we can understand all the aftershocks of SB49. Pete spent years chasing that ghost, to the point he regularly gaslit fans that we weren’t actually seeing what we were seeing on the field. That they had a plan and they 100% knew what they were doing even though layman fans could see it was not working after years and years of trying to make it work.
Today’s coaching quandary is like a PTSD for long-time fans who have had so many struggling moments.
It may be better tomorrow. It may not be near as bad as it seems right now. But shock, disappointment, losing out on opportunities that are seemingly well within reach – that’s woven into our fan DNA at this point.
Cha, you get it. Maybe we’ll get a mediocre coach, and I’ll still get sucked back into watching. But I’m trying to stop putting up with mediocrity. It’s a big part of why I haven’t given a damn about the Ms for 20 plus years.
And maybe Seattle gets it right, and we hold onto an OC long enough to win a SB. It just seems further out of reach than ever at the moment.
At this point, even if they end up choosing the-coach-who-will-not-be-named, I think I’m pretty ready for this to just be done and move on to other offseason business.
Actually, no, still not Quinn. But I’ll live with one of the others.
Ron Rivera interviewing with the Rams for a coaching job.
There is smoke that Andy Reid is retiring after the Superbowl.
Could BJ just be waiting for the Chief’s job to open up?
With 10 years of prime Mahomes, KC is a way better job than Seahawks or Commanders.
I just don’t think that he will. Haven’t heard anything down here.
He very well could, but I haven’t heard it mentioned by anyone that has ties to the team.
Kafka still might get the call first.
I actually think his agent and him could have laid a number out to sway him but if it didnt then there is a very high likelihood a combo (if not all) of Philly, Dallas, Buffalo and KC have openings a years time. Not too mention other teams. Like Giants, Jets, Bears, and Steelers.
I dont think its outlandish to think that atleast 5 of those 7 teams have openings next offseason. All of which I think may coaches would want ahead of Seattle especially following a legendary coach and possibly even an ownership change (which has shaken up front offices and staffs shortly thereafter in the past). Not saying that is gonna happen but add it all up and I think I see a reason to either get the high number you want or run it back in a weak conference.
I don’t profess to have any inside information, but logically what you’re suggesting about ownership change doesn’t make sense.
If current ownership intended to sell in the near term (next 2-3 years is my guess), they would have retained Pete Carroll, and Schneider might’ve been the one moving on. Maybe not. Either way though, they wouldn’t undertake this kind of uncertainty only to sell the franchise in a state of further uncertainty.
Maybe Johnson fancies KC or Dallas. But that’s awfully speculative. And if he did, why go through the dog and pony show of it? That sounds more like he really does want to give the Super Bowl one more try with this version of the Lions, though I highly doubt that’s why his candidacy disappeared late.
And while I’m talking, I wanna ask, if Schneider was aware of Johnson’s unrealistic salary demand for a while now, why didn’t he have a more concrete backup plan in place to pivot to? If he knew Johnson was unlikely, why not request an early interview with Macdonald to put him in the pipeline, rather than wait until after his season ended (somewhat early, according to most expectations)? It all seems so haphazard and reactionary. And that’s not confidence inspiring.
The salary demands didn’t really get revealed until late into the interview process, probably in the last several days.
The backup plans has been Kafka/Quinn/MacDonald.
It was reported well enough back that John coukd/should have known.
Every time my wife is waiting for me to wrap it up she says “blitzy will be there when you get back.”
…………
The whole thing is weird. I think you convinced me that he and his agent screwed up. Alternately I do agree that it’s odd John apparently knew about it and still talked to him.
I just have this bad gut feeling it’s going to end up with Dan Quinn . I really hope I am wrong I really do. Then I will hear all those 49er fans laughing at us we own Pete and sure the own Dan look it up
Feel the same way that this is pointing to Quinn or Kafka. Not enthusiastic about either of them.
I think he is as likely to be a Commander in Washington. He seems like the type to be put in place to build a new culture and set a standard. I think he is a great fit with his type of personality and going back to Washington’s glory days and bridging that gap in a way to lay that foundation. Will he get them over the top, probably not. Yet given the right OC and tools he has shown he can make it places.
Just throwing this out as food for thought. While I am an advocate for SeaHawks hiring a Head Coach whose expertise stems from the offensive side of the ball, and likewise acknowledge all the rationale behind such, it is clearly an endeavor fraught with disappointment. Below is a potpourri of former OCs who suffered less than stellar results after assuming Head Coaching roles. FWIW, I am not making value judgements on any of the listed as everyone’s circumstances were different and some might quite well have succeeded in a different situation. I think it speaks more to having the “right” individual than anything else.
Matt Nagy- Chiefs OC
Adam Gase- Broncos OC
Frank Reich- Eagles OC
Josh McDaniels- Patriots OC
Nathaniel Hackett- Green Bay OC
Kliff Kingsbury- USC OC
Bill O’Brien- Patriots OC
Lance Lynn- Bills OC
Chip Kelly- Oregon HC- “offensive mind”
Arthur Smith- Titans OC
Ben McAdoo- Giants OC
Jay Gruden- Bengals OC
Hue Jackson- Bengals OC
The argument isn’t that appointing ‘any’ offensive minded Head Coach is a recipe for guaranteed success
The point is well made about the benefit of hitting on a good offensive coach — given the likelihood of a productive play-caller being poached, inconsistency with your QB and the fact that 10/10 Head Coaches in the last five Super Bowls were offensive-minded
The ‘right individual’, in terms of success in the modern NFL, is an offensive play-caller — that’s what the teams fighting at the end tell us anyway. You still have to find the right one
This is why I think Slowik should be the fall back from BJ. Kafka’s play-calling history is short and not stand out with NY. I do have confidence that McDonald can match defensive wits against the offenses of the Rams and SF. So the cupboard isn’t totally bare.
Slowik just signed a new deal in Houston and is staying there
I never said I get anything other than the right to my own opinion for being a longtime fan. I also have the right to not bother watching bad football.
It depends on who they hire, but if they hire someone I have no faith can win a SB, there’s no point in watching. Vrabel, Quinn, Bellicheat…again, I’m not likely to bother watching guys I’m convinced can’t get it done.
And whoever it is, if they suck I’m going to root for them to get fired so we can churn this thing over. We’ve seen what wasting 7 years on false hopes gets you…
Above meant as a reply to BK26….
Andy Reid, the current top NFL coach, didn’t win a Super Bowl until his 21st year in the league, at 61 years old. The main reason? No franchise QB until Patrick Mahomes.
Get the best offensive mind not names Ben Johnson, then do whatever it takes to draft the best QB you can get out of this draft. That is our best shot at a title.
He took the Eagles to 4 straight NFCCGs.
Donovan McNabb, an almost franchise QB.
I actually think Detroit’s in the exact same boat with Goff. Swap him for Mahomes and they dominate start to finish.
Why not just have Pete coach out his contract with an announced retirement after the 2024 season if they didn’t have a plan? Seems like such a sensible approach. Pete, you can stay one more year, and then we’re moving on…I guess he didn’t like the terms, and chose to be fired? I’m a fool for thinking they had some splashy candidate to replace him lined up. This feels like when they panic drafted LJ Collier when things didn’t fall their way.
Feet. Balance. Frame. Damn.
https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1752411179165565229
Certainty a man of interest if Lucas’ health remains a question going forward.
We won’t even sniff him unless we trade up into the top 10.
I wonder where Rosengarten ends up. Im guessing, if he keeps building hype here this week, he could be 2nd round which means we wouldnt have a chance. I really like his prospectus and the fact he was blindside protecting as well. Just dont think we have the opportunity for him. I dont think he will ever be elite but I think he could be quality OL guy who can play both tackle spots and given we have huge questions (IMO) on both tackle spots medium to long term…I would love to get another solid guy in there.
If we made a significant trade down to pick up draft stock we might have a pick in the range Rosengarten goes.
Rosengarten had a rough game against Michigan (to my uneducated eye).
He did
Rosengarten had a good day today, IMO. It was hard to see him on the other side of the field, but there were a lot of big runs that way and Penix/Nix had lots of time.
How about Fuaga?
He might be gone too.
Any chance we could get MacDonald and Kafka? What are the rules around poaching someone for the same position? To me that combo doesnt sound half bad.
You can make him assistant head coach and skirt the rules
Rob, I got you a present at the Senior Bowl in appreciation for all your hard work.
https://x.com/AlbertB55481266/status/1752455012351869392?s=20
And for tolerating my obnoxious ass.
Rob’s agent would like to inform you that he has a different color in mind, a color he is very loyal too, and would like to win a championship in that other color. His mind could be changed, however, upon the deposit of 15 million dollars.
They only had blue, grey, and white.
That’s awesome, Rob is on another level!
Funny one. On paper easily the most exciting option, but plenty of teams were happy to push ahead and not worry about interviewing him. Hard to imagine money really being the sticking point for these teams, especially someone like Washington, unless it’s one of those owners cabal things where they’re all working together to suppress wages.
Could be any really. Maybe he’s enjoying his work and life in Detroit and happy to back himself in to wait for a job he really wants to come open. Maybe he’s just a bit of a dick and the teams that interviewed him went yeah, thanks but no thanks champion. Maybe he’s just not ready for the big seat. Interesting to see it play out over the next few years, oh well, we go next.
Very disappointed.
I’m confused why anyone thinks there was any reason other than the reported $15mil, coupled with a refusal to not come off that.
The second highest paid coach outside of Sean Payton. Carroll was paid what? $8mil.
Someone else posted above all the assistants/HC in waiting this Agent Reps. Think he might want to use his crown jewel to reset the market? Doubling 1st HC salaries would be a huge money maker for him.
Huge loss for Johnson, huge(r) loss for the agent, and a loss for the Seahawks as well.
As for a couple of conspiracies up above:
Schneider may have delivered his official offer to Johnson today “we want to meet with Mac, then we will let you know”, timing happened to be while Commies were en route (is that the sort of thing Schneider does?). Seeing the Seahawks number and knowing it was the OK only way to pull the Commies up – Johnson has to withdraw.
No other explanations make sense, they all require a lot of steps and assumptions. The only question is why the agent didn’t or couldn’t walk back the number.
Why withdraw while the Commies are in the air? Because any meeting would have been about cash only. DC needed to start now.
Imagine you are offered a job, and you tell them you want $150k a year, and they respond that the last person to hold that job made $80k and they were far more experienced. What do you do?
I don’t blame Johnson for wanting what he feels he deserved. His agent gets enormous blame for not setting his expectations and delivering him the best contract in a year where he was the key crown jewel. Next year the market will have several new names and a person like Slovik or Stevanich or even Waldron will be the belle of the ball. No one has told him it your second contract where you make the money.
Schneider left Baltimore with no contract in hand for Macdonald. I’m guessing that means that we will see some VMAC finalists. Kafka will be it.
On the Commies front, I’ve read a lot of their local reporters saying only glowing things about Quinn, and he immediately is the front runner.
At this point, I will be fine with Kafka – Reid’s tree has been fruitful. I’d be discouraged to see Schneider go back to the drawing board.
I do think coaching wages will be going up dramatically in the future considering what top college guys are starting to get paid. With that said I dont think a never been a head coach is gonna be the guy pushing that wage tier higher.
With NIL and the transfer portal, college HC is arguably a tougher job. Unless you are a top 5 team, you’re basically rebuilding every year.
Completely agree with your last paragraph.
I think the $15M ask was a “don’t hire me” price in the same way a contractor who doesn’t want to take the job gives you an absurd estimate for a remodel job on your house. Obviously he’d go to a team paying him more than any other HC without experience, but no team is going to pay that. I have trouble believing that someone as smart as Ben Johnson would somehow just let his agent ask for a salary vastly over market unless he truly had no serious interest in moving into a head coaching role with the Hawks or Commanders. And if his agent did that, well, then he could fire his agent and just take a job that was offered–but that number is also a convenient “save face” thing for the respective GMs, who can point to that instead of saying that they failed to get their man. This way, he gets more interview experience and knows what’s out there while still staying with the Lions to finish what he started. While turning down the money and opportunity seems incredible for anyone not at that level of coaching, let’s take it at face value and respect that he really wants to see if he can win it all with the Lions. If he does, that salary becomes pretty plausible for the next hiring cycle, and as much as we hold the Hawks in high esteem, there will be 4 or 5 openings in the NFL again next year, and the next year, and so on.
I feel attacked as a contractor about your contractor comment.
I *definitely* have never had a job (client) I did not want to work for and bid a ridiculous amount.
I should have said “dentist”! As in, “yeah, that cleaning will be 20 grand…”
Yeah, never heard this in my life, I never want business partners to even hear abiut me being anything other than fair to work with.
My dad worked 60 years as a GC doing a lot of military AND private contracts. That sort of thing doesn’t happen.
Under I’d to get a job or lose money on it, sure, refuse to hid a contra ft because of an Ass hole in the works, yup.
Our landscaper told me this exact thing.
there was a job that he didn’t want to do, so he quoted a very high price, expecting the client to defer.
Not commenting on the ethics of this… just sayin’… it happens.
Not buying this
His agent may have let that number slip, or made it known intentionally.
Johnson flat out withdrew from the process last year rather than hear the Panthers or any other team out. So why make up a phony baloney number? You wouldn’t. And not one that is so clearly calculated to get an eight figure response.
Agent – Athlete relationships are weird things, I know two player agents, one does exclusively MLB, the other handles Rugby players and Soccer players. I know a couple music and enter entertainment talent agents as well. Their business is not a clean one. But say you are Ben Johnson, you are making $3 mil a year, you want to take an offer for $8mil a year, recognizing that if you are successful that number will become $15 mil a year…how much damage do you do to yourself by firing your agent? Who do you hire next? Also, the agent isn’t a potted plant – they are working it from the other side. Which is why there has been an avalanche of damage control stories from Johnson’s camp. The Commies media is on a full Quinn push and Seattle media is beating a Kafka drum – neither of them are pushing a narrative with Johnson…because they don’t have to, Josina never retracted.
Salary will be the same or less next cycle. There will be new up and comers, and two of the choicest destinations are gone.
I’m not buying the ‘wants to win a Super Bowl’ spin, because why should any of us? It makes no sense, it is offensive to even begin to take it seriously. That is what you say at the start of the cycle, not the end.
Pete was making 15 last year according to a Google search.
Go Google! My memory is not great on some things.
He probably feels like he has unfinished business with Detroit being very close to a SuperBowl. He is 37 has decades left to be a coach , unless there is a huge step back Johnson will be a popular candiate next season.
Perhaps. Detroit won’t be the underdog next season and we will see how tough their schedule will be next year. If they regress at all he may have cost himself a lot of money.
I’m not sure how accurate this is, but I heard the plan was for JS to go to Mobile for the Senior Bowl after the meeting with Macdonald this morning. But a flight tracker shows Jody Allen’s plane headed back to Seattle instead. Wonder if Macdonald is on board?
I doubt it
And John might’ve taken a different flight to be fair
I think JS is mirroring a lot of issues we attributed to Pete. Troubling.
If Seattle ends up with Quinn/Kelly, JS should be sent packing without ceremony. He’s known that he was in a coaching search since early November and this is the end result, YHGTBFKM.
JS should have been let go when Pete was–get an entirely new structure in the building and start the process of putting it together again instead of this plug and play that seems to be on the launch pad.
What a wreck.
IF it’s Quinn, I’m with you 100%. If it’s someone outside the franchise sphere, I’m totally willing to give he and John a chance to steer the ship on a new and hopefully better route. Kafka and a highly drafted QB would excite my fandom.
I’m ok with that.
Who have the missed out on that actually took a job with another team. There is Brian Callahan, other than that I’m just fine that they haven’t taken any of the other HCs that have been hired.
Good point, but JS is entering month 4 of knowing he needs a head coach. I’m saying, the prep for this seems substandard and is reminiscent of what we’ve seen in free agency for too long – he ends up with leftovers and Quinn/Kelly are the poster boys for Leftovers. Maybe he’s trying to put as much time between the Green Bay debacle and naming Quinn as possible, but it won’t matter. It’s not going to make Quinn a better coach.
We’ve used the word “hubris” before, to describe the leadership of this team.
Would it be shocking if JS is a little bit full of himself, and over-confident in his abilities as a GM?
Agree 100%.
I’m not entirely sure that he’s mirroring? Johnson didn’t go to another team, and didn’t interview with the Commanders, at least JS got into the door.
It feels an awful lot like free agency, where we thought that maybe they have a reason for waiting–that there’s a group of guys they’re really interested in, only to see them walk away empty-handed with stories of “being in it ’til the end.” I’m unimpressed that JS got in the door to talk with a coordinator and the guy decided he’d rather stay in freaking Detroit than take over in Seattle. Money be damned, what’s a few million when it comes to the value of these franchise? Particularly when the result of that rejection is Quinn/Kelly? How do you even talk yourself into the idea that Quinn/Kelly is, under any circumstance, a viable answer beyond the fact that it’s basically a plan to run everything back, except without Pete?
Maybe he’s got a rabbit in his hat, but that would be the one outlier for JS in 14 years. There’s never a rabbit in the hat.
Is all of this to say that I’ve given up on the coaching search before it’s complete? No, but…well, yes. Yes, I have. If you have low or no expectations, it’s hard to be be disappointed.
Going to steal that contractor analogy.
Imagine you want to hire a hot shot design/build contractor to remodel your home, the problem is they’ve never done a whole home before.
So you ask them to because you like their Work, but when you get the bid back it is the same as if you hired the oldest, most expensive outfit in town.
You’re not cheap for turning them down, you’re being realistic.
Imagine if you countered with a number that you know is a nice one, and would set the market for first time work like theirs? And their response was to say they didn’t want to do this work, and ran off? You might even feel like you dodged a bullet.
But he hasn’t actually lost anyone he’s interviewed outside of Morris.
So it is settled then.
Some of the overreaction on this board is quite comical today. Everyone takes a bro breath and step away from the keyboard. Yes, Ben Johnson looked like a great fit in Seattle…… he chose not to leave Detroit, I’m sure he’s got his reasons ( spoken and unspoken ). Just because the rest of the girls at the dance aren’t quite as pretty, it doesn’t mean they won’t turn out to be just as good in the long run. Cheers
I think people should be allowed to vent on the internet though, without people telling them they’re not allowed to
The rest of the girls at the dance look like Dan Quinn and Chip Kelly.
Mark Schlereth just told Wyman and Bob on 710 that Ben told him six weeks ago that he would be very selective and picky about the team he goes to. Mike Lombardi I believe it was that said his mentor is Adam Gase. So I wonder if the Commanders were even a strong contender at all. I’d like to think he took a second interview with us because we offered the best opportunity but it got snipped in the bud because of salary that was a non-starter.
Oops. Sent send too soon. I mentioned Adam Gase because he got fired twice. Perhaps he is making sure Ben doesn’t make his same mistakes.
Or control. JS may well be laying it out there and being frank about roster control in a blunter fashion than BJ wants to hear … and the cap and draft choice situation really actually is a mess. So he was willing to be talked out of seeing it as a mess, and decided in the end it was a mess and he has a rare chance to compete for a SB in DET, and will likely have plenty of opportunities to compete for an HC position and not have to overcome the blatant mismanagement that has characterized the last several years of SEA. Maybe one interviews with JS (knowing of the blatant mismanagement) and JS starts by saying “nothing to worry about, we are pretty sure the peacock will be healthy in 2024”, which would be enough to make anybody stay home.
The salary cap, draft stock, comp pick and roster situation is in bad shape.
JS has his fingerprints all over it regardless of what PC wanted.
Hope he’s not telling coach candidates they have to use JA & Geno among others.
Well for some good news, Jamal Adams is considering retiring. Again.
https://www.totalprosports.com/nfl/three-time-pro-bowl-player-contemplating-retirement/
Lol. It’s pretty salty around here.
We went from “do whatever it takes” to land Johnson, to “15 mil was too much anyway”.
I will say-This whole saga is entertaining as hell. Couldn’t say that about the Seahawks the past few years.
Good for Johnson I say. Good for the lions. Good for Goff. (I’ve been rooting for Goff, solely because of all the hate he gets)
If the rumor is true that Reid is retiring maybe he’s rolling the dice for KC job as Mahomes is most attractive.
But he and agent handled this poorly – imo. This no interest and high salary should’ve come out weeks ago.
Imagine if Detroit made SB and these teams waited even a few more weeks for this nonsense!