Rasheem Green wasn’t supposed to be a third round pick
He chose to declare for the draft, somewhat surprisingly, and when he made that decision the initial reaction was positive. Lance Zierlein noted he could be a first or second round pick in his NFL.com bio. He gave him a 5.88 grade, putting him a notch below Billy Price and Josh Allen. He graded above Christian Kirk, Kerryon Johnson, Kolton Miller, Austin Corbett, Nick Chubb, Frank Ragnow and Rashaad Penny.
Clearly Green had been given advice that he would be an early pick. In a year with a real lack of pass rush options, it wasn’t an unrealistic proposition.
Initially I didn’t think there was much chance he would last into round three. On April 3rd I mocked him as high as #24 to Carolina. There wasn’t a lot of buzz around his stock leading into the draft and in my final mock I had him again to the Panthers but at #55.
You can tell when a player might be set to last longer than expected. They have no buzz going into the draft. Projections drop. Zierlein ended up giving him a final second or third round projection. Bob McGinn’s sources offered the same grade with this accompanying blurb:
Third-year junior played DE in a 3-4 defense and moved inside on passing downs. “He’s naturally an outside guy,” said one scout. “One of the reasons he’s leaving is there was word they planned on him continuing to work inside. He sees himself as a defensive end. He’s super talented and super young (will turn 21 in May). He needs to get stronger. Probably would have benefited staying in an extra year. His best football is ahead of him.” Finished with 117 tackles (20 for loss) and 16 ½ sacks. Two teams have major medical concerns about his knee. “Kind of a potential guy,” said a third scout. “He’s got some inside pass rush. He’s not quite man enough inside and doesn’t have quite the juice outside. You’re hoping to project him to 3-technique. He doesn’t like going inside because I don’t think he’s tough enough.” From Los Angeles.
His stock started high but never gained the kind of momentum where you felt he was going to go early. Seattle took advantage of that.
This was a bad class to find an EDGE
Bradley Chubb was always destined for the top-five but after that? It was Marcus Davenport and not much else. With limited options and always a need for pass rushers, it felt like Green, Sam Hubbard and others would go early. Perhaps earlier than they deserved to go.
That wasn’t the case.
Both Green and Hubbard dropped. Pete Carroll and John Schneider noted it was a knee issue with Green that led to his fall. Hubbard had a disappointing final year at Ohio State.
It was left to the likes of Harold Landry (#41) and Kemoko Turay (#52) to pick up the slack. If this was a New Orleans blog we’d probably be reflecting on the complete dearth of options as a reason why the Saints made such an aggressive move to get Davenport. If you wanted a pass rusher this year, good luck.
And Seattle needed a pass rusher. They really needed one. So why not take a chance with Green? They might’ve been especially careful with their draft board this year but this felt like the time to roll the dice a little. As long as the knee issue isn’t too serious, take the shot.
They traded down from #76 so did they want Hubbard and got cute?
I’ve seen this suggested on Twitter. Presumably this suggestion is based on either cynicism or Pete Carroll’s obscure ‘draft clues’. He posted a GIF of a monkey running off with a hubcap. It’s a bit vague to connect ‘HUBcap’ and ‘Hubbard’.
Instead, I think this was the situation. They picked at #76. They liked both Hubbard and Green. They knew at least one would be available by dropping down to #79. So they made the deal.
Why would both Green and Hubbard appeal?
Agility testing.
Quinton Jefferson (4.37), Jordan Hill (4.51), Jaye Howard (4.47) and Malik McDowell (4.53) all tested superbly in the short shuttle. Bruce Irvin (4.03) and Frank Clark (4.05) both ran incredible short shuttles. Cassius Marsh’s 4.25 and Obum Gwacham’s 4.28 were also really good.
Here are the top-five D-line testers in the short shuttle at this years combine:
Sam Hubbard — 4.32
James Looney — 4.37
Rasheem Green — 4.39
Bradley Chubb — 4.41
Marcus Davenport — 4.41
If the Seahawks do view the short shuttle as a vital test, here’s why they were likely interested in Hubbard and Green. They not only recorded the first and third fastest times, they also beat Chubb and Davenport.
Now here’s the top five three cone times:
Sam Hubbard — 6.84
Taven Bryan — 7.12
Marcus Davenport — 7.20
Rasheem Green — 7.24
B.J. Hill — 7.28
Hubbard’s time is the sixth fastest in the last 10 years of the combine.
So here were two players who were available in an ideal range for the Seahawks, testing in the drill they seem to value.
Evidence of a well judged draft plan.
So this was the right way to go about this class?
We made this point in the Rashaad Penny review but essentially these were the options:
1. Harold Landry at #27 then Nyheim Hines, Mark Walton, Kalen Ballage or Chase Edmunds at running back
2. Rashaad Penny (the RB you want before the rush starts) and Rasheem Green
The Seahawks haven’t received positive grades for their draft class. Considering they had one pick at #18 and then nothing until #120 though, how can you criticize what they were able to do here? If fixing the run and adding a pass rusher was the priority, mission accomplished.
So what about Rasheem Green the player?
He’s not the finished article and that shows up on tape. Yet the upside is so high for a third round pick. That’s not me just being positive about everything the Seahawks do. That’s not how we operate here. I’ll always be honest. And my honest view is — this was a value pick.
Here’s what an anonymous AFC regional scout said about Green courtesy of NFL.com:
“I wanted him to go back to school because he probably would have been a top-10 pick next year. He’s not strong enough to handle NFL guys yet so this year may be a redshirt year for him. He’s got some serious juice though. He’s going to be a dude when it all comes together.”
This sums it up perfectly.
1. He has incredible, untapped potential — enough that he could’ve been a high first rounder next year
2. He needs time to get stronger and wiser
3. He could be very, very good
Seattle needs the aforementioned ‘dude‘. Someone to fill the massive void left by Michael Bennett.
Not that anyone should expect the second coming of Bennett. From arriving in Seattle as an UDFA and then moving to Tampa Bay — nothing about Bennett’s career was expected or orthodox. There were no great testing numbers. No rhyme or reason to what he does. He’s probably as rare as Marshawn Lynch. The Seahawks couldn’t have asked for a better inside/out rusher to compliment their star-studded secondary during the glory years.
Green has a lot to do to get to that level. An awful lot. But it’s indicative of his potential that he might be able to get there one day.
One of the things Bennett had was an arsenal of moves. He could win with power or rush the edge, he knew how to set up a blocker over several snaps and he often out-thought as well as out-fought his opponent. Green, at the moment, is a little bit predictable. He needs a counter. You see the flash off the edge and he will win with speed and length. There are also times where he gets stalled and you’d love to see a club/swipe or a spin — just something to mix things up.
One of the reasons I liked Dalton Schultz a lot as a blocker was the way he battled with Green. At the next level, that needs to be a mismatch.
He could also be a bit edgier and rough around the edges. Bennett had a mean streak and an attitude that sometimes pushed the line of acceptability. Green is almost a bit too polite at the moment. Perhaps he can be the aggressor a bit more going forward? But he’s 20-years-old. If we’re saying the same things in five years, it’s a problem. Not now though.
That’s why the anonymous AFC regional scout said what he said above. When he gets stronger, wiser and a little bit more experienced — watch out. Because what he already does well is pretty exciting.
The Seahawks need a player who can rush from the inside on key downs. There is ample evidence that Green can do this while also playing with power and aggression when needed too.
As noted immediately after the pick, he was sometimes asked to play nose tackle. Malik McDowell had the same task at Michigan State. It was an ill fit but he still excelled. His one-arm bull rush was incredible. His combination of length and power was freakish. It’s why Seattle took the chance on McDowell.
Green shows some evidence of that same power/length combo. He’s a pure inside/out or EDGE pass rusher and yet he can anchor inside:
More Rasheem Green; The upside for this kid is just tremendous. Size, quickness, and strength all very promising. #NFLDraft #DraftTwitter pic.twitter.com/qkkORTow53
— Bradley Ylitalo (@NFL_drafthub) March 22, 2018
Just look at the way be bullies his way into the backfield from an interior position:
Rasheem Green, this kid shows flashes of freakish strength. #NFLDraft #DraftTwitter pic.twitter.com/tKofaDMx5p
— Bradley Ylitalo (@NFL_drafthub) February 15, 2018
And I highlighted this one the other day. Nobody does this to Billy Price. I watched virtually all of Price’s 2017 games and this is a collector’s item:
Rasheem Green’s active hands and natural quickness are a scary combination. Late first round prospect who could be an immediate impact 3/5 Tech. #NFLDraft #DraftTwitter pic.twitter.com/3vTRtsgbSz
— Bradley Ylitalo (@NFL_drafthub) March 21, 2018
Here he is winning with relative ease against UCLA using a club/rip:
Rasheem Green (#94) has some good inside moves. Used a club-rip from the 3-tech spot here to hit the quarterback. Good initial setup with his footwork…. I'm really liking his potential for the #Seahawks. He can be a bit upright w/ a narrow base but he makes up for it. #NFLDraft pic.twitter.com/5F6FGO9ata
— Samuel Gold (@SamuelRGold) April 28, 2018
This is why you get excited about this pick. If he’s succeeding from the interior like this already, that’s the exciting part.
He can rush the EDGE. You can find examples of that. Lots of players do this in college:
DL/OLB: Rushing ½ a man pays off. Rasheem Green (@ras_green) misses swipe, but gets home due to ½ man rush! pic.twitter.com/1BZ7okCsCk
— DLineVids (@DLineVids) December 3, 2017
Yet more than anything the Seahawks need an inside/out threat. Those types are rare and difficult to find.
His effort and motor are also a major positive. He doesn’t stop, competes to the ball and makes plays:
Rasheem Green has consistently active hands and a relentless motor, love the way this kid plays the game! #NFLDraft #DraftTwitter pic.twitter.com/2a70M5HqS1
— Bradley Ylitalo (@NFL_drafthub) February 14, 2018
It took Frank Clark a year to reach something close to his best in the NFL. It might take Green a year to get there too. But he’ll contribute quickly to Seattle’s rotation and his potential down the line is clear and obvious. As long as the health of his knee isn’t a big problem, he could be a key component of the new look Seahawks.
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I just got my fix…thank you! I was going to have to go to ESPN or somewhere like that to tide me over.
I’m excited for Green on the Seahawks. This article was spectacular.
Thanks 👍🏻
I literally said “yes!” out loud when I pulled this up and saw a new post.
Similar here, after many refreshes, “YEAH”!!
Great article Rob! I see some Malik to his game for sure. I know it’s unlikely Malik comes back and is a difference maker. But wow, what a combo/rotation Green, Clark, Jordan, and McDowell would be.
Think you’re right to think hawks will look to add to the d-line early in next years draft, and right for thinking we’re looking at another 9-7. I get that any year you have a QB like Wilson is a chance to go to the playoffs. I just don’t think it’s realistic in a transition year like this. So many stars who’ve departed.
I will stress… I could see more than nine wins. My point before was this is a draft class that won’t necessarily propel Seattle to a better record but might set the table for future success. But any team that can run, has Wilson at QB plus guys like Bobby and Earl on defense isn’t a team to take lightly and can be competitive.
Agreed. But if we’re speculating until the season starts (and we are), that’s how I feel about it at the moment. I just don’t expect to make the playoffs like I was this time last year. But hey, no one thought much of the eagles this time last year.
You can already tell Pete and John are building with for team culture – a big reason “types” of players were off their board this year. New coaches, new players, new scheme. These things take time, but will be fun to watch it unfold!
I hear what you’re saying, but think about this.
Last year:
No running game
No RB with game breaking ability (not discounting a healthy Carson at all)
Poor OL blocking and protection
Poor/No TE blocking
Russ had no time to through, so the passing game was a scramble drill
Horrible place kicking
Below average punting
Bad team JuJu with all the self-focused yelling, devaluing the coach, iner-player conflict
This year:
Another year of growth for our OL
Additional OL players and competition, including D.J Fluker, Jamarco Jones and Skyler Phillips
New OL coaching
Big time TE blocking
A contributing FB that can block, run and catch
A genuine game changing RB with size and serious speed
=
A much improved running game
Better pass protection
An improved passing game (Russ himself will take care of this if you give him more time)
One of the top 5 punters in the NFL = advantage with field position
PK = still needs a bigger upgrade but better than Walsh
Distracting voices gone, return of the hungry competitive youth
The Griffin twins contribution to a more competitive and positive environment
(The first time Quem knocks someone on their can [and he will], it could be a momentum game changer for this team)
Gone are the days of the glass cannon and ignoring Seattle’s running game.
It will be a fun season and if all the pieces come together and everything clicks, watch out.
Don’t forget George Fant
HT1, what do you think about the idea of a Griffin bros jersey?
LOVE IT!!!!
Think you’re right on the mark HT1!! So much opportunity for improvement in most areas this year, you have to be optimistic and excited to get this thing started. This draft was a great job filling some key needs and the off-season focus was all about eliminating distractions, definitely gonna be fun!!
Don’t forget Brad Lundblade. A tough and smart guy.
2019 happens to be a year, where a couple of interesting kickers will be available. But I guess if Myers can learn enough from the ol’man, we should be fine, too.
Don’t forget seabass at kicker! Massive improvement over Walsh (hopefully).
Agreed.
Any team with their core top 3 offensive players being Russell Wilson, Doug Baldwin and Duane Brown, and their top 3 defensive players being Earl Thomas, Bobby Wagner and KJ Wright can be as good as they want to be. Much like Philly last year, it is all about the coaching as well as the secondary and tertiary players stepping up.
Can we assign a spy to Green to make sure he doesn’t get close to an ATV?
Too soon
D’OH!
I asked this in the last thread, hopefully someone is interested.
Ground_Hawk says:
May 3, 2018 at 7:58 am
Hey Rob, have you ever done an “Armchair GM” similar to Field Gulls? I read their article about the top scorers, for their event, and I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the top scorers this year are followers of your site. Could be something fun, but maybe you’ve already tried?
That information about Green’s knee helps to explain his drop, but I would imagine that after Seattle’s experience with DT Jessie Williams that their medical advisors are aware of the risk, yet were willing to give him at least a 3rd round grade; assuming JS/PC didn’t reach, which is something that they claim to avoid.
Hey Ground Hawk,
I’d say you can’t really compare one injury history to another – they all vary in degree and severity. Also Williams had cancer (i think?) and probably isn’t a good example of what you’re getting after. All players have some kind of injury history, it’s a very violent game played over the course of years before we get our hands on them. What’s great about Green is his age. If he were coming out at 22 or 23 years old and the injury was more recent..yea there would be some major concerns
For sure, no 2 injuries are exactly the same, but Williams knee injury was reportedly why he fell to round 5. The cancer arrived when he was already a pro, and let’s hope that he is doing well these days.
Not saying anyone was wishing him ill will BTW.
Always appreciate both views of a situation! Yeah, let’s hope he is doing ok these days
Great write up as usual. Interesting about the knee. If i remember right this was a high school injury? Not an expert on knees but you figure that wouldn’t be too much of an issue unless it was degenerative. Love the length and ability he has. Blew right past Billy Price in the bowl game. Even though he is willing, it sounds on the radio like he wants to stay more at 5 tech so i wonder about moving inside. I haven’t watched any tape on Malik in a year but he seemed like a more rugged and powerful player that would have held up inside better than Green. I like our D line coaches and think that they do a good job teaching teaching the fundamentals, which is what some of these high ceiling guys need.If we end up going back to the large inside rusher next year Raekwon Davis would be incredible.
Side note: Another guy i like next year is Andrew Van Ginkel OLB from Wisconsin. Versitlile playmaker. Fills up the stat sheet. Got a little Clay Matthews to him. Next years Vander Esch.
What’s the book on how he handles the run game?
Great read as always, love the upside with this guy.
Have any of our UFAs caught your eye Rob?
Only the ones I’ve watched — Ford and Frazier.
Will take a look at them after these reviews
Tony Pauline did a 2019 mock and had Seattle picking 11th.
He had two Husky OT in the first round.
I just want one of those D-Linemen next year. Nick Bosa, Raekwon Davis, Rashaan Gary, the Clemson Quartet.
One of those guys plus Rasheem Green, Frank Clark, Dion Jordan, Jarran Reed, and Nazair Jones would make for a scary DL next year.
Trey Adams was projected to be a first rounder this year, before the knee injury. Kaleb McGary has some upside and athleticism for a huge man, but I don’t think he’s a first round pick at this point. I couldn’t easily see him going in round two with a big year, but I guess Colton Miller doesn’t look like he was a first rounder either. It depends on what the depth is at OT for next year.
Pauline also had 12 DL go in the top 32- 37.5%. Confirmation to what we’ve been saying, that the 2019 DL class will be loaded!
Hey Rob, when do you think you will do a 53-man roster?
Not until camp
The first thing I noticed on the first video was #56 getting a knee injury and ankle sprain at the end of the play. I wished the video lasted longer to see if he was able to stand up afterward.
Thank you Rob, excellent analysis, as always!
I love linking to good posts . . .
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/breaking-down-the-draft-class-rasheem-green#comment-384621
🙂
Want to get a little fired up about Dickson’s punting abilities? Check out this monster single game portfolio:
http://thecomeback.com/ncaa/10-punts-inside-20-texas-bowl-mvp-michael-dickson.html
+1
He’s a weapon! It’s going to be fun watching him
Thank you for your excellent write up. One thing I have noticed is that just about every DE starts as a rotational pass rusher before getting more responsibility in year 2 or 3 here in Seattle. This seems like an ideal fit. Love it.
No reason not to take a guy in the 3rd with upside … in a perceived area of weakness on the team.
You aren’t going to make an omelet if you don’t break a few eggs. I also would much rather take a swing on a DL player than another “project” OL player in the 3rd round. Economical use of limited picks in the 1st 3 rounds. Get some value in the 2nd pick utilized… so you give them an A for effort and a B for the picks out of the shute.
The guys that fire me up about this draft were taken later or some of the UDRFA guys they are bringing in… there is some major upside to be had….
ESPN gave them a C- for the draft… which means it will be an A long term. 😀
Kiper gave Sea a C+, so I still respect him. The others who are serving up D’s & F’s are sucker MC’s
It is funny, just reading up on some of the UDRFA guys… Seattle has supposedly grabbed and Guard Viane Talamaivao, USC might actually make the team.
Rob, any news on if the laptop is repairable?
They said it will take five days to work on the repair.
Green got washed out a fair bit when USC played him on the inside against the run but plugging into that role at ~275lbs is a pretty significant handicap, even in college. It shouldn’t be an issue in Seattle given how Carroll will use him though.
It is difficult to criticise this pick on the whole. It hits a big need (and to be honest, young pass rush is always a need for any team) and the value right now looks pretty good.
I mentioned it on the Day 2 Draft blog if I recall correctly but I think there is a bit of a comparison with this pick to the one that the Vikings made in 2015 in the third round in Danielle Hunter. Both Green and Hunter declared early and entered the draft as extremely young but athletic prospects with tremendous upside.
Minnesota have done a terrific job developing Hunter into a big part of their loaded defensive line but he was quite productive in his rookie campaign:
33 Tackles (29 Solo)
10 TFL
6.0 Sacks
25 QB Pressures
There is a case to be made for the thought that Zimmer might be to defensive line prospects as Carroll is to defensive backs but if Seattle can get a similar stat line out of Green in the coming season it would be huge for our defence.
I know you mentioned that it took Frank Clark a year to hit his straps in the NFL Rob but I think Carroll went on record stating one of his biggest regrets from the 2015 season was that he didn’t utilise Clark often enough earlier on that year. Hopefully he lets Green tee off a bit more as a result.
In the spirit of Rob’s tweet I will whisper it but I read on your twitter that you compared Green to JPP which in a roundabout way aligns nicely with who I had in mind above because Lance Zierlein’s pro-comp for Hunter was JPP.
Another year, another tip of my (Hawks) hat to you, Rob!
Good thing we can afford to build him up a year, like Tank.
With Smith III, Tank, Jordan, situationally Mingo!
Speaking of a year, Darboh NAZ Carson and Swoopesthereitis hype 🚂, all aboard!
Great stuff here. I wasn’t aware of the knee concerns, but that’s a good thing. It means that wasn’t an issue for him while at USC. He’s big enough to play inside, athletic enough to handle the edge. Needs some mental conditioning: he’s a bit quiet, but that could be in part due to his young age.
I see someone very similar to Frank Clark — highly versatile 3-down defender who can impact any play at any time. He’s probably more inside/out compared to Clark’s outside/in, but as far as I’m concerned, that’s a great pairing. I hope Green gets some of Clark’s attitude.
The knee injury was from high school and didn’t bother him in college, according to PCJS press conference after day 2. I believe one of them said Green doesn’t even think of it as an injury, or something to that effect.
Remember how when we brought Bennett in as a free agent, there were reports of a lingering shoulder injury and that he might be damaged goods? I hope this turns out like that did.
I’m curious about your differentiation between outside/in (which is really what everybody means on Bennett, etc.) and inside/out. I’m not really sure there is such a reasonable use of actual inside/out. What kind of player do you see doing that, and to what purpose?
From the people that put their money on the line and probably should be very much in the know.
Interesting. Another example showing Penney as the #2 RB in the draft. Bad pick, my ass.
Oddsmakers – Bovada projections; 2018 NFL Offensive Rookie of the year:
Sequon Barkley, odds; 3/2 (This with only 56.5% of Penney’s total rushing yards in 2017)
Rashaad Penney, odds: 14/1
Darius Guice, odds: 18/1
Ronald Jones, odds: 30/1
Sony Michel, odds: 30/1
http://thecomeback.com/nfl/breaking-down-nfl-rookie-prop-bets-from-bovada.html
*Penny (x3)
kind of a overly simple and misleading interpretation of the odds. Situation is a pretty big factor.
What are the dates for the various workouts upcoming? OTA’s, camp and so on. I am so, so ready.
Friday the rookies show up for a weekend at the Seahawks facility.
Does anyone else think Green is the linchpin pick to make or break this draft class?
You are taking a chance on a kid (20 yo is a kid) and investing in his upside.
The trade down (18 to 20 whatever) slight of hand brought the player to you…..
if in 3 years he is as good as some have proclaimed….. would have been a top 10 pick in 2019….
imagine the eating crow that will go on from draft prognosticators giving them a C- right now.
*like if good*
Nah, I don’t think that. If Penny, Dickson, and Dissly all become starters and Griffin is a productive playmaker, this will be viewed as a pretty good class even if Green never pans out, imo, especially considering the pick used to take him was acquired by trading down. However, I think he could be the thing that takes class from good/solid to extraordinary if he develops into a premier player.
Agreed. The linchpin isn’t Green, it’s Penny. Either the run game improves dramatically, or it doesn’t. Either way, people will look at Penny as the reason and evaluate that draft as a success or failure based on how he does. We got Penny, Dissly, and Khalid Hill to improve the run game – it was the focus of this draft.
Green is a a little lanyap thrown in, a nice little bonus. He isn’t expected to save or change the defensive line. He’ll be added to what we have, and what we get next year. Next years draft focus will be all about the defense, and defensive line in particular.
As might be expected the Seahawks have taken several players with specific talents. Of course our early picks, a dynamic running back and a young defensive player are interesting and hopefully productive, but getting help later can be the key to a draft. Will Dissley, for instance, is a developing player who is already a good blocker, almost an OL, but he also catches and runs effectively, and might be seen lining up at FB in some situations. He will not out run anyone at this level, but he will not be easy to take down.
No need to say much about Shaquem, because it has all been said. Good stuff.
Tre Flowers and Jamarco Jones, both offer length and production. Obviously the team liked Flowers as a Seahawk back, with his length, speed and tackling ability. He could make the team. Jones, while unheralded, is long, with a 7 foot wingspan, and great experience as a 2 year starter for a major college.
I don’t know much about the last 2 picks, and the udfa class is out of my ken, but it seems that the draft in general was good for our front office.
Dissley’s effectiveness as a pass catcher will not be predicated on speed, it will be predicated on surprise. He’ll be blocking 90% of the time. When he does go out on a route, the defense won’t be expecting it. Dissley will charge from the line, defenders will see Wilson handing off – no, wait, it’s a fake, and Dissley isn’t blocking, he’s releasing and I’m already two steps behind.
+1
Rob, great work! Followed your site for several yrs. now and I must say the player that real intrigues me is Tre Flowers. He fits your comps what Seattle looks for in DB’s tall and fast!! We might be the sleeper the fans and Hawks are desperately looking for. I get it he has to learn a position from being safety but, with Earl Thomas covering the safety position the learning curve should differently work on his favor.
I think you’re right to be excited. If there was anyone who provided a ‘wow’ moment at the combine it was Flowers. He just jumped off the screen as a Seahawks corner.
i was going to make a similar comment about him. Sky high potential. He could be a faster Sherman, and of course, could be just another Tharold Simon. But the fact that he said he got kicked out of the film room for being there too much should mean he has a dedication to his craft. He has the physical attributes to succeed, let’s hope he has the mental aspect and work ethic as well
Dave Wyman always talks about Tharold Simon as being the prototype Seahawks corner who had it all. His problem was between his ears. He had to think his way through everything. It never took hold at an instinctive level where he could just play. As a result, he was always a step or two behind where he need to be. Here’s hoping Flowers can make a smooth transition to his new position, and quickly pick up the Carroll cover technique.
One thing I really like when watching green is that he improved throughout the season and maybe his best game was played against Ohio state. HIGH upside
Along with Rob’s SDB, I also really like the film breakdown Samuel Gold does. Here is a link to his breakdown on Penny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWkE0a2LAKk
Be interesting to see if Green gets more snaps than some other recent rookies (Clark) just due to there being less talent to compete against for playing time. Super excited about the pick. If he can contribute right away the DL has a chance to be decent to good (assuming big time production from Dion Jordan).
Regarding the other side of the ball, I keep coming back to the new TEs, Dickson and Dissly and think about how many plays, and subsequent drives last season were completely blown up by big losses that were directly the result of terrible TE blocking. How many times did we see 88 completely whiff on a DE (why he was ever tasked with that is another discussion…)? Eliminating those negative plays makes a huge difference in time of possession and field position.
+1
Absolutely LOVE the Rasheem Green pick. You nailed it with his upside, Rob. 100% value in R3.
Speaking of R3 value, has anyone checked out the latest OTA photos of Naz Jones? The guy looks likes a chiseled Greek god of a DT right now.
Super excited for Naz this year, i think the dude has the potential to be really really good. He and Reed could be a dominant duo for a long time.
We know now that Green needs to get stronger, we knew last year that Pocic needed to get stronger. So why not get stronger before your first year instead of after your first year? Hopefully Green is working on that now instead of waiting until next off season.
I think the main reason is time. There are only about two months from the draft to the start of camp. In addition, a lot of these guys are still students attending classes and trying to finish off degrees (I know not all, but a good number of them).
Might not be possible. Don’t know for sure but rookies might spend all their time learning the scheme, transitioning and adapting. When they know the scheme after year one, might have more time to dedicate to strength training.
I don’t think it is so much training as the natural process of growing into your body and filling out. Especially for a guy like Green who is 20.
I hear what you’re saying, but given the age we live in the technology and chemical advancements made to date, I question how much NFL body growth is natural. Not saying illegal or against NFL rules, but these is still a lot of room left of other non-natural assistance!! I think at the NFL level, they just have that “growth” more down to a science that doesn’t through up violation flags. 🙂
7 to 8 pounds of muscle per year, working out full time, is what most people can do “without PEDs”.
Sprinter Tim Montgomery gained about 20 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks using PED’s.
Lineman can gain weight that is not muscle that is still helpful, but that can make them slower also.
and the rules are set up so that the NFL “misses” most of the guys that use, which is 50% or more of the league
A HUGE reason that often gets overlooked is diet and the difference between a college kid on a meal plan and a professional that has a dietitian and can walk in to the facility and be handed food. College kids are at a severe disadvantage in that regard.
Agreed. Along with the “additives”, diet is also important.
+1
There was a great quote from the Cards strength coach about him having to undo so many bad habits, routines etc. Im guess a lot of these guy may be strong, but arent really doing the best/right things
I can’t help myself.
At the end of the last podcast Kenneth and Rob got into a debate regarding the value of picking a RB in the top of the draft versus picking a QB. When Rob said that the Giants already have a franchise QB, Kenneth stated that he horrible. When Rob brought the likes of RW and Cousins, Kenneth shot him down stating those are flukes and it’s common knowledge that the top QBs in the NFL are top of the the 1st round picks.
Here is a shot list of active QBs that were not picked in the top 10 picks the draft: Brees, Big Ben, Flacco, Rodgers and that guy called Brady.
And here is a cool trivia question – list the names of all the QBs that were picked in the top 10 of the draft and won a SB since 2000?
The Answer: The Manning brothers.
Nice post.
Regarding that podcast, I’d sure like to have them pick-up where the podcast cut-off and finish that debate. That was juicy stuff. Reminds me of a sound byte from the young version of Scotty in one of the resent Star Trek movies in the
scene where Spock is attempting to interrogate Kirk and Scotty after following some heavy drama Scotty says, “I like this ship, it’s exciting”. Felt the same way about that podcast debate.
I’d happily finish the podcast if I was able to finish a sentence 😉
But seriously — it’s had mixed reviews. People saying ‘enough already’. Others saying ‘loved it’. Not sure what the demand is for a rematch. I’m game but not sure if the audience want to hear round two.
Here’s my 2 cents. I get what Kenny is saying about having to pay a running back more if they are a top pick. But the overall help to a team is what matters in the end, and the way Ezekiel Elliot, Gurley and Fournette have been instrumental in rebuilding those teams cannot be denied. There are your Kareem Hunts and your Kamaras but, they are more diamonds in the rough. I really think that Saquon Barkley, if he stays healthy will have a solid impact for the Giants. The idea of paying a second contract for a running back might be a topic for another day.
For a team like the Seahawks under PC – Having a reliable and efficient RB is like being healthy. When you are healthy you pay it little attention and get busy with the rest of your life. God forbids you are not healthy and everything else pales in comparison.
We were not healthy for the past 2.5 years. Picking health first was an obvious call.
Moneyball dictates pick a RB later and play a top pick rookie QB. Since the CBA was signed, the only team that actually won the SB with a rookie QB had a 3rd rounder QB and a 1st round beast of a RB…
The thing is everyone know how good Kamara or Hunt were going to be they would have been picked in rd1. The mistake is on the talent evaluators.
FWIW; Personally I’m not interested in a “rematch”.
👍🏻
I’d love to hear y’all argue each other’s stance.
Double devils advocate haha
I think what I will do is just go to the Raiders pre game press conference in London and ask Pete about the perception the running game doesn’t matter and that you should never take a RB in round one 😂
I think I’d love to hear that even more 😁
I plan to travel to this game with my son and see my hawks play for the first time ever…
Been a fan from afar since 1979…I think the time has come…
Excellent news!
Rob,
There is a solution to not getting in a debate with Kenny……Don’t ask him his opinion on anything anymore. Pretty simple. I for one don’t need nor want Kenny’s opinion on anything and perhaps I’m not alone considering he said himself in the podcast that nobody’s ever asked his opinion on anything before.
I think most of us agree on this blog that we listen to podcast to hear Rob’s opinions. Not to trash Kenny in any way because I think he’s pretty good at asking you question and getting to the point. But let’s face it, we want to hear Rob.
One of these days I need to reread my posts before posting. Waaay too many word-errors. lol
I say if you don’t want to hear the greatness of part 2, don’t listen.
You can put a disclaimer on the podcast if needed.
But the ceiling and floor are both so high on that debate, how to you say no, especially to a subject that continually flashes and has a relentless motor like that? 🙂
I feel like there is a conspicuous absence from your list of non top 10 picked QBs, but I can’t put my finger on what it is…
Assuming its only SB winners of course
Rob mentioned RW and Foels before kenneth came with his statement so I just added a few names…
It is really interesting that in spite of the huge financial advantage gained from a top rookie QB surrounded by the best roster the extra cap can buy, the only rookie QB to win the SB in the CBA era is RW.
not a rookie, 2nd year
Sorry, I meant a QB under CBA rookie contract….
As I said on an earlier post, if we come out this draft with 5-6 starters along with a nice supply of depth then this will end up being an A++ draft looking back at it a few years down the line. Especially so since we initially had no 2nd or 3rd round picks.
Let’s not forget that Dwayne Brown should be included with this draft class. So if we come away with:
D. Brown LT
R. Penny RB
R. Green DL
W. Dissly TE
S. Griffin LB/ST
M. Dickson P
If these guys become legit starters in the next few years we are on the fast track of a great rebuild. Not to mention if T.Flowers and K.Hill end up being a starters.
I don’t expect to be in the playoffs this next year simply because of our losses on defense. I believe our offense will be markedly better. Thank goodness Rob was right and the Hawks tried to fix the run game.
With new offensive coaches; More experienced O-line; a blocking TE; new explosive RB; FB back in the picture; I believe this will translate into RW getting back to what he does best. RW doesn’t need an exceptional WR core. But he does need an exceptional Run Game to be who we need him to be…A PLAYMAKER at the QB position.
Really? What QB is more fun to watch than Russ when we have a running game going strong? He’s still in his prime and we have made a HUGE step in the right direction. I don’t care if we go 7-9 this year because it’s going to be a lot of fun watching those 7 wins and knowing we will have great draft picks in 2019 and a great front office that knows how to get us back to the promised land.
GO HAWKS +12
That 2nd round 2019 draft pick being gone (for Brown) is going to hurt. Hopefully it’s worth it.
Just tuned into the radio… Did I just hear that Avril got released?
yup!
Bummer, though not surprising. One of my favorite Hawks, great FA acquisition, and very underrated. Amazing how he excelled at the strip sack. He will be missed.
Was the release based on ongoing medical concerns that would prevent him from playing?
Never mind – saw the news.
I know not great news but the injury is a big concern.
It will free about $7M in cap space putting them around $15M-$16M I believe.
yes, just saw his message on my instagram. I think they get just under $6 mill in cap space because of some sort of injury guarantee
Excellent write up Rob.
We are over halfway there folks. I’ll probably close this in a month. Feel free to share and contribute.
https://www.gofundme.com/get-rob-staton-sdb-laptop
You could probably just put it in the Patreon after all is said and done. Some posters were a little nervous about the fan-organized gofundme…
Now that it’s back up, further donations could probably just continue to go there. The worst timing for that Patreon maintenance
Isn’t that just a monthly thing and not one-time?
Is it? I thought you could donate freely.
Seahawks confirmed UDFAs:
8 Ka’Raun White WR 6-1 206 West Virginia
10 Caleb Scott WR 6-2 203 Vanderbilt
15 Taj Williams WR 6-3 199 TCU
34 Marcus Martin FB 6-1 250 Slippery Rock
40 Khalid Hill FB 6-2 263 Michigan
43 Emmanuel Beal LB 6-0 223 Oklahoma
46 Jason Hall LB 6-2 219 Texas
47 Tanner Carew LS 6-1 245 Oregon
48 Warren Long LB 5-11 212 Northwestern
52 Jake Pugh LB 6-4 246 Florida State
58 Marcell Frazier DE 6-4 261 Missouri
60 Eddy Wilson DT 6-3 301 Purdue
61 Brad Lundblade C 6-3 295 Oklahoma State
72 Skyler Phillips G 6-3 318 Idaho State
97 Poona Ford DT 5-11 312 Texas
It’s a bit early, but the UDRFA class may have a few that make the 53 man squad.
Ponna Ford (DT) – besides Stephen, he provides the only true option for 1tech. Reed is more of a run stuffing 3tech, playing nose. Ford can relieve some of Reed’s snaps on run dns. This is a great pickup!
There are a few others that have a legitimate shot to make the roster. DE/OLB Jacob Pugh, SS Jason Hall, DT Eddie Wilson. Pugh has the length to mirror KJ, but may not have the speed to cover TEs down field. Hall is a box safety that bears the #31, who could receive tutelage from the one who owns #31. Wilson could give Jefferson a run for his money, and would be an injury insurance for 5tech and 3tech.
What about Khalid Hill? With the emphasis back on the run, this guy is almost a lock to make the team.
That’s another possibility. If so, that might eliminate Swoopes’ options to be the 4th TE. This should be interesting.
Wouldn’t be at all surprised for one of Hill/Martin (edge to Hill for not making position switch), Carew, Ford, and one of the OL like Philips make the roster minimum. Maybe a WR as well.
I believe there will be at least a couple of surprise cuts to make room for some of these guys.
Carew is a cost saver that I neglected to mention as part of the 53 that could supplant Ott. Not sure about Philips. They probably carry just 9 on the OL this year. Odhiambo should show development in his 3rd yr. I think they keep him again this year, and they’ve been high on Roos as well. Skyler might be a PS candidate his 1st yr in the pros, since he’s limited to playing guard, his natural position.
(T) Brown
(G/C/T) Pocic
(C) Britt
(G) Fluker
(T/G) Ifedi
(T) Fant
(T) D. Jones
(G/T) Odhiambo
(G) Roos
Maybe one of the WRs pushes for a spot along with one of the FBs – probably Hill. Skyler Phillips could also make the roster.
WR Taj Williams could make some noise. Not sure they go with a FB initially, as they didn’t last year. They may just carry (4) TEs, with some HB options instead of traditional FB position.
I’d like to see what Cyril Grayson can do with a year on the practice squad under his belt.
With all the great Seahawks moving on this season it is definitely a year of change.
The player I will miss the most perhaps is Cliff Avril. The consummate professional at all times both on and off the field. He was an incredible talent and criminally under rated IMO. I believe without a doubt if he does not get hurt in the SB with NE that game is not even close late and the Hawks have at least one more SB. He is the perfect prototype for a Hawks Edge rusher and the yard stick which all prospects are measured against.
My top 5 favourite Seahawks of all time
Kenny Easly
Walter Jones
Kam Chancellor
Cliff Avril
Steve Largent
My top 5 are
Steve Largent
Dave Krieg
Cortez Kennedy
Walter Jones
Bobby Wagner
6th – Joey Galloway
Well hell I’m one of those guys looking all over the place for any stories of interest about the Seahawks. This interview with Carol I learn quite a bit of what’s happened since last year. http://sports.mynorthwest.com/448986/seahawks-hc-pete-carroll-talks-rookies-richard-sherman-and-revamped-run-game/
The 1st part is the role Brian Schottenheimer Is the leader of this offense there will be no split of duties between the coordinator and the Offense line couch like before. I really like this approach as its always should be in my opinion. It starts at about 7:30 on the video and goes for about a minute.
The next one involves Bennett and Sherman as far as why they are gone and I would also include Bevel and Cable in this. After all keeping things fresh and energetic is a 2-way street . You here that from Carol at 12:10 in the video. Make absolutely no mistake Pete Carol runs this team and if your not bought into the team then your gone. Coach or player makes know difference. He developed this philosophy after he left the NFL to go to USC and since then he’s never going to change it cause he’s he been so successful.
I have 2 more things I like to talk about that have nothing to do with the interview. The 1st is if they changes the rules on the kickoff return we could just the advantages of this draft this year. I could see in the first pre game Jacob Martin, Will Dizzly, Tre Flowers, and Shaquem Griffin all blocking on the first kick return and Rashaad Penny takes it for a TD. It’s not impossible
the last thing I heard was Seattle Let Cliff Avril go and that was in my opinion the best FA Seattle ever pickup and he was instrumental in the Seahawks winning one and making it to the next one. It will be hard to find another to replace him not just on the field but off it too. Just some thoughts about how excited I am about this year.
I know JG wasn’t a fit for the offense and our new TEs are all about blocking with the ability to catch here and there. Certainly enough to not tip the hand as to whether it will be a run play or a pass play. I definitely get all that.
With that being said, JGs most effective plays were in the redzone, inside the 10 really, where RW could just throw it up and the expectation was that JG would make the catch. Who is going to do that now?
I feel like we have replaced a lot of the pieces that left: MB: Dion Jordan (snaps increase), Mingo, Green; Sherman: Maxwell; Richardson: Brown… Who is our jumpball specialist now?
Long winded way for me to say please bring a Dez in for a look at the very least. We don’t need a ton between the 20s, which is where Dez is becoming less effective. We need somebody that will go up and get the score when the ball is just tossed in his direction. The draft is over, then fA cupboard is pretty bare, and this need still needs to be filled (IMO).
I think they won’t have to do that now, because they will be able to run the ball better and score rushing TDs again.
Yeah, and even when passing near the goal line, a jump-ball specialist has never been anywhere close to a necessity. Dez is a hard pass.
I feel worried about those fans that ain’t hyped for the thing we are going to see from now till opener. There is going to be fierce competition for many spots on the roster, and Seattle is bringing in plenty of younger guys that should, and probably have, the hunger to reach their dreams. Is there any better franchise than Seahawks for an Undrafted player to sign for and compete in? There are fighting spots all over the roster. Only spots we know for sure who is starting is QB, LT, C, RG, RE, DT, MLB, ROLB, CB 1 Quill), FS. Atleast imo.
So let the competition begin!