One way or another, the Seahawks were going to draft a blocking tight end.
It was inevitable. A foregone conclusion. As likely as a big investment in the running back position.
We never even really looked at the ‘pass-catching’ tight ends in this class. And that’s pretty much the whole class. The number of blockers, once again, was decidedly low. A point emphasised by Pete Carroll immediately after the draft:
“It has been harder to find, John (Schneider) has been checking it for years. We’ve really had a difficult time finding a guy that can do both, who can catch the ball and run some routes for you but can be a strong blocker.”
The Seahawks made a big investment in Zach Miller seven years ago. With money to spend and having already signed Sidney Rice and Robert Gallery, they signed Miller to a five-year, $34m contract with $17m guaranteed.
It was a huge investment at the time.
He was familiar with Tom Cable (himself having just joined the Seahawks) and fans saw a former second round pick with 2712 receiving yards and 12 touchdowns already to his name.
He was going to be a big time playmaker, right?
It depends how you define the term ‘playmaker’. Miller ended up being the perfect compliment to the Marshawn Lynch running game. He was a terrific blocker — legitimately as good as a sixth offensive lineman. When they needed an important catch to move the chains, he was often there.
In four seasons with the Seahawks he never had more than 396 receiving yards in a single year. His production statistically was unimpressive. Yet his production in terms of impact on the field was hugely significant.
When he retired after the 2014 season, the Seahawks went in a very different direction. Possibly (probably) in a retaliation to what happened in the Super Bowl, they went after a different type of tight end. A red zone monster, more of a pass catcher and certainly not a blocker.
They traded for Jimmy Graham.
They then proceeded to spend two years seemingly trying to convert him into a capable blocker. Carroll would reference Graham’s potential to become a complete tight end. It never happened. In year three he was used almost exclusively as a big red zone target. It was too late. The Seahawks — and Graham — needed a fresh start.
I don’t buy into this idea that Seattle’s culture changed the moment they traded for Graham. You could argue it was ill-advised to try and turn him into something he wasn’t (a good blocker). But there was more going on than just Graham’s addition from 2015 onwards. We were witnessing the end of the Marshawn Lynch era in Seattle, the offensive line became a major weakness and the injuries took a toll on many offensive players.
Even so, moving on from Graham and Luke Willson this year while adding Ed Dickson and Will Dissly is a statement of intent to get back to the 2011 plan.
The Seahawks don’t need an 800-900 yard tight end who can haul in 10 touchdowns. That’d be a bonus. First and foremost they need someone who can do the job Miller did. Block well, provide a reliable target.
That’s Dissly down to a tee.
Over the course of the draft coverage I mocked Dissly, Dalton Schultz and Durham Smythe to the Seahawks — all for their blocking ability. These were the three players competing in something similar to a pro-style offense (or at least an offense that featured the run). I paired Dissly with Seattle in my final seven-rounder.
Lance Zielein projected him as a sixth round pick.
Even so, I’m glad the Seahawks took him where they did. There’s nothing wrong with getting ‘your guy’. Many teams wouldn’t have been interested in a blocking tight end with a limited physical profile. But the Seahawks aren’t drafting for the rest of the league. At this time in the Pete Carroll era, with fixing the run being the priority, it was absolutely the right time to go and get a tight end like Dissly.
Not Mike Gesicki. Not Mark Andrews.
They needed someone they could put out there, deliver a decent block to help the pass or run and catch a few balls. No fuss, no pressure to get him the football. A modest albeit important job.
More than anything next season it’ll be refreshing not to read the weekly analysis of how many receptions a certain player had. Throughout Graham’s time in Seattle there was almost a pressure to get him the football. On the days when he didn’t get more than a couple of targets, it became a ‘thing’. Questions would be asked, people would wonder why they weren’t making him a feature.
There’s not going to be any of that anymore. Nobody is going to question how many targets Ed Dickson and Will Dissly received in a game. The Seahawks can go back to what they were in the 2011-2014 years. A bunch of under-appreciated, ‘pedestrian’ pass catchers. Russell Wilson can spread the ball around and Seattle can feature the running game again.
Back to Seahawks football.
Getting a running back and a tight end was vital from this class. Carroll and Schneider, quite clearly, got the two guys they really wanted. They didn’t leave anything to chance. They had their pick of the running back class apart from Saquon Barkley and they took Dissly in a range where they were assured to get him — and then declared him the best blocking tight end in the draft.
Running back they want? Check
Blocking tight end? Check
Pass rusher? Check
The three most important needs in this draft, all checked off.
And while many will complain about the lack of yet another first round pick on the O-line (just to put last years early OL pick on the bench) or no cornerback drafted early (despite their history of success on day three and the re-signing of Byron Maxwell) — these were the real moves the Seahawks had to make.
Again, I’m not here to just cheerlead for the Seahawks. I think the fact we’ve talked about these things for months proves that isn’t the case. We focused on running backs and tight ends quite a lot. They had to come out of this class having added to those two positions with guys that fit their way of doing things. And they pulled it off, despite the lack of picks.
How do you criticise that?
They did what they set out to do. You can’t accuse them of a lack of focus or clarity here. They had one pick at #18 and turned it into two players that had been ranked in the top-50. They got their tight end. They added some really intriguing players in rounds 5-7.
This was a good draft for the Seahawks. Simple as that. It might not be enough to propel them into a far superior record in 2018. They might go 9-7 again. But it might be a more palatable 9-7 with belief restored that this team can compete again in the future.
And hey — if they can run the ball this year and with Russell Wilson at quarterback, we shouldn’t set any limitations for what they can achieve.
So what about Dissly?
An anonymous NFC West Scout had this to say about him:
“He’s a Peterson guy. All-in with his commitment to the team and what he has to do. He won’t blow you away with talent or athleticism, but he does his job.”
That’s exactly what the Seahawks were looking for. A committed team player, ready to come in and block and do his job.
Bob McGinn listed Dissly as an ‘unsung hero’ in his piece on the receivers and tight ends, noting:
A consensus choice as the best blocking tight end in the draft. “Somebody will take him late because he’s a blocking fool,” said one scout. “There’s no ‘Y’s’ (conventional tight ends) anymore. Everybody plays the spread.” Shifted from DE to TE late in the 2015 season. Adequate size (6-3 ½, 261), below-average speed (4.88) and 35 on the Wonderlic.
What do you see on tape? Nothing overly spectacular — just a large number of really solid, competent blocks. He does his job, down after down.
Huskies TE Will Dissly is a plug & play in multi-TE sets. Like having an extra OL. Won’t see many targets but he’ll make you tackle when he has the ball pic.twitter.com/yjhEmLR0ap
— Mark Dulgerian (@MarkDulgerianOS) February 15, 2018
He plays with the kind of edge you’d expect from a converted D-liner. He’ll often finish his blocks:
You might say Wash TE Will Dissly likes to block. On next play, was in trips and carried a DB 10 yards downfield. Former DL can catch, too. pic.twitter.com/DGFylaU54V
— Chad Reuter (@chad_reuter) February 4, 2018
John Schneider complimented Dissly’s catching ability but there aren’t too many examples to highlight. He only had 21 receptions as a Senior for 289 yards and a couple of scores. I saw him live against Oregon and he only had one reception for six yards.
Here’s the thing though — you don’t see many errors. Either as a blocker or catcher. He can certainly snatch a difficult pass out of the air:
Halftime from the PNW.@UW_Football is up big after this TD grab by Will Dissly.
Watch the 2nd half of #MONTvsUW: https://t.co/YfMNDWtSGW pic.twitter.com/HpCIemE2eQ
— Pac-12 Network (@Pac12Network) September 10, 2017
In this game against Montana, Dissly also had a really good reception on a scramble drill. He uncovered from the right sideline and gave Jake Browning an option, collected the pass at the 15-yard line and then fought his way to the goal line, carrying defenders along the way.
This was the play that really caught my attention in that game. His ability to understand the moment, provide a target and then finish the run was very Zach Miller-esque. And it’s not like Washington has a scrambling quarterback and this was just second nature for Dissly. It showed he had a natural feel to get open, provide a target and give Jake Browning an option.
His ability to finish runs consistently shows up. Against Utah, Dissly caught a fairly simple pass to what would be the right hash in the NFL. He’s hit at the 12-yard line as he completes the pass, breaks the tackle and then drags another defender to the two-yard line.
Against Oregon State he caught a pass on an outside slant to the right sideline. He cut back inside, dodged two defenders and made a difficult first down. In the same game he caught a checkdown from Browning and it took six (SIX) defenders to halt his progress. He was pushing the pile on his own.
This was also a game where he showed a genuine ability to quickly race down the seam and provide an option. He had a really sharp break off the snap, got downfield with enough shiftiness and made a 25-yard completion.
In a game against Portland State he again took another checkdown to the right sideline, plowed through one tackle and then side-stepped another to score a touchdown.
We also know the Seahawks like the occasional trick play…
Inefficace offensivement depuis le début du match, les Huskies de #11 Washington tentent un trick play… une double-pass parfaitement exécuté par WR Andre Baccellia pour Will Dissly…#FiestaBowl pic.twitter.com/gXwxJwIVp8
— TBP College Football (@thebluepennant) December 30, 2017
There’s no real art in judging what Dissly does well. He’s tough, physical, reliable as a catcher and blocker and has surprising power and an ability to get open.
While he didn’t run an outstanding forty time (4.87) he did manage a 4.40 short shuttle. That’s no mean feat at 6-4 and 262lbs. That agility shows up fairly often.
The other thing he has in his locker is experience playing defense. In the same way Richard Sherman had an advantage due to his time playing receiver, Dissly can think like a pass rusher. He knows what to expect, what a defender is looking to do.
We’re not going to be sat here in four years time toasting Dissly for passing Jimmy Graham as the most productive tight end in franchise history. That’s not why they drafted him. They will need to find a way to replace some of Graham’s scoring production. That doesn’t have to come from the tight ends though. Hopefully the running backs will score more than one touchdown this year.
Dissly’s here to help the Seahawks get back to their brand of football. Dissly, Rashaad Penny, D.J. Fluker, Mike Solari, Ed Dickson. All moves designed to get the balance back on this offense.
I wanted to finish today with a few words about Cliff Avril. He never quite made the headlines like Richard Sherman or Michael Bennett. He wasn’t outspoken, he just got on with the job. Yet when we look back at what pushed the Seahawks over the top in 2013 — Avril was every bit as important as Bennett.
I remember the day well when Avril signed. There was something special about that off-season. The Percy Harvin trade, Bennett and Avril signing. The Seahawks were unstoppable — on the field and in free agency.
Before he was drafted in 2008 he ran a sensational 1.50 10-yard split. That’s as good as it gets for a pass rusher. Avril will be the benchmark from which we compare every future possible DE addition to this team.
And it’s often forgotten that his rush off the left edge played at least some part in ‘the tip’.
Through his effort on the field, his charity work and the way he always came across well in interviews, Avril deserves everyone’s respect now that his career in Seattle has ended prematurely.
He was a fantastic Seahawk — and we’ll be lucky to see another pass rusher capable of combining his intensity and effort on the field with humility and charm off it.
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Avril is a class act = I will miss him. If not for injuries to him and Lane, Seahawks would have another superbowl ring.
+1 more SB ring
Madmark says:
May 4, 2018 at 3:04 pm
Well hell I’m one of those guys looking all over the place for any stories of interest about the Seahawks. This interview with Carol I learn quite a bit of what’s happened since last year. http://sports.mynorthwest.com/448986/seahawks-hc-pete-carroll-talks-rookies-richard-sherman-and-revamped-run-game/
The 1st part is the role Brian Schottenheimer Is the leader of this offense there will be no split of duties between the coordinator and the Offense line couch like before. I really like this approach as its always should be in my opinion. It starts at about 7:30 on the video and goes for about a minute.
The next one involves Bennett and Sherman as far as why they are gone and I would also include Bevel and Cable in this. After all keeping things fresh and energetic is a 2-way street . You here that from Carol at 12:10 in the video. Make absolutely no mistake Pete Carol runs this team and if your not bought into the team then your gone. Coach or player makes know difference. He developed this philosophy after he left the NFL to go to USC and since then he’s never going to change it cause he’s he been so successful.
I have 2 more things I like to talk about that have nothing to do with the interview. The 1st is if they changes the rules on the kickoff return we could just the advantages of this draft this year. I could see in the first pre game Jacob Martin, Will Dizzly, Tre Flowers, and Shaquem Griffin all blocking on the first kick return and Rashaad Penny takes it for a TD. It’s not impossible
the last thing I heard was Seattle Let Cliff Avril go and that was in my opinion the best FA Seattle ever pickup and he was instrumental in the Seahawks winning one and making it to the next one. It will be hard to find another to replace him not just on the field but off it too. Just some thoughts about how excited I am about this year.
Agree w/ your thoughts on new kicking game rules.
Totally agree on Cliff Avril. He is a total CLASS ACT. One question on Avril. His salary was going to be 7mil. How much of a cap savings is this going to be.
The only other concern I have is a wide receiver. I realize the Hawks will go to more two tightend formations. They did bring in speed during the off season. They have Amara Darboh. So we will see what happens.
Don’t think the Seahawks don’t have talent at WR position. They pickup Marcus Johnson from philly that can run a 4.37 in the 40. Jaron Brown is another pickup in FA from the Cardinals he had his best year with a backup QB.This WR class they have will be fine and if we need to was one of the position we felt we could wait another year do to the talent of this class.
Avril has always been one of my favorite Hawks. Such a beast…. And all his off the field stuff was awesome, never in the media, just always working and getting sacks. He will be missed but will be remembered in the Ring of Honor. Truly one of the original/ best members of the LOB.
I personally loved watching Avril because he was so predictably good, my dad and I would always bet on him making a play when we needed it, and seemingly more often than not, he delivered. Definition of clutch and a ballhawk on the the D Line
With Shaquem Griffin currently wearing #49, any bets on if/when he changes to #56? If anyone should wear it after Cliff, it should be him.
Shaquill #26
Shaquem #56
Shaquem #49 is a travesty – don’t understand it at all. Quem jerseys are going to be flying off the shelf – give him a legit number!
Avril had a great piece in the Player’s Tribune today. On top of all the (great) sentimental stuff, the discussion about ping pong was fantastic. Loved the bit about how Earl got himself a table in in the off season just to practice and then come back and school his teammates as well as his admission that they didn’t play enough ping pong this past year (I took to mean less competition internally and less young/hungry/competitive).
I know Seahawks’ twitter has a lot to say about the low value of the run – but I don’t totally buy it. I think its especially valuable to be a run team when either teams are pass teams. Because the league is so pass happy, defences are built to stop the pass. If you can run you force defences into ‘sub-optimal’ formations as their best players are pass rushers. Love zigging when the league is zagging. I think Z. Miller was one of the most (if not the most) underappreciated players of the past era.
I thought one of the turning points in the super bowl against New England was when Avril went out with a Concussion. Our pass rush instantly disappeared and it felt like Brady had all day. He also seemed like a great guy on and off the field. He will be missed
Without a doubt they win that game with Avril playing to the end.
Both INTs cost a player that day (Lane, Avril)
Shohei Ohtani disappointed he can’t play against Ichiro.. He could have played with him and brought us over the top 🙃
Cliff Avril, overshadowed by others on the team, but brought the lunch-pail to work and got it done. I didn’t appreciate him enough, but when he got dinged in the SB….. figured out quick he was “a” key to the Seahawks defense.
He did things the right way. On the field, but more importantly off the field. You hear about guys being knuckleheads and getting into all kinds of trouble. Off the field, he took his celebrity and made things better for the less fortunate…. half a world away. The NFL needs more guys like Cliff Avril.
Thanks for the memories.
Regarding Avril, such a class act. He was perhaps my favorite free agent addition – excellent on the field, even better off of it. Inevitable, given the news from last year, but sad to see him go. I hope he can find a way to stick around and mentor some of our young DLine prospects.
In the context of the article about Dissly, you make this point very concisely, Rob – the Seahawks clearly got the guys they wanted. This might be what I liked best about the draft this year. The national pundits can quibble about whether or not the Seahawks “reached” with their selections such as Penny, Dissly and Dickson but they had their choice of players at positions they identified as in need of help and chose exactly who they wanted, often setting off a run at those positions soon thereafter. I think JS/PC had a fairly clear idea about where the cliffs were in the draft. Given their limited draft capital, I think the Seahawks addressed their areas of need quite well.
It’s certainly fair to wonder if they addressed all of their needs adequately – ie the discussion above about receiving depth. However, they had a limited number of picks this year and as we’ve discussed previously, this was not the year to draft a receiver. It would be great to address every need perfectly in a draft, but unfortunately either due to lack of draft capital or due to lack of talent at the targeted position (or both), it’s not always possible. I also have to conclude, given JS/PC’s predilection for drafting a year in advance of need, that they like Darboh and Moore better than what was available to them in this draft.
Good point about the WRs. However, my concern is that if the draft didn’t have any better options that our current group, and our current group isn’t ready for prime time, where does that leave us. I do look forward to seeing some of our current group, as well as new guys, get some snaps and flash in the way we need them this year.
But remember they know more about some of these guys than what we’ve seen (Darboh, Moore, etc.). They are expecting at least one of them to make a big jump forward this year.
I have hope as well. Just saying that I haven’t seen much in that group yet to make me think they are the solution. But still hopeful.
I’m not at all aicked about receivers. Lockett should be 100% and is both a greta eep threat and a good outlet receiver. Baldwin is close to the best in the league. Darboh wasn’t used much l;at year but looked good when he was, and then there’s the flock of free agents and udfa’s. Not to mention Prosise. If Pete and John aren’t worried I’m not either.
Tha was supposed to panicked about re4ceivers. Lockett ..both a great deep threat… I may learn to type some day but I’m probably too old. Not too old to proof read though…
I’m pretty non-fussed about receivers as well. If they have a decent (anything other than last years utter catastrophe) run game I think Russ will make the receiver core fine. Baldwin is a stud and I really think Darboh/Mooare are going to shine this year. If not Darboh they have other options. Hell – nobody wants Kasen Williams and we know that he can high ball for Russ.
I have to wonder with all this coverage demonstrating they want to run the football, aren’t teams going to know that and stack the box accordingly. And unless they can throw the ball, the offense could get stalled at the LOS whether our line and tight end perform better or not.
^^DB, Lockett, and co will thrive against a stacked box
Exactly. Look what they did last year when teams knew we couldn’t run and kept 7 or eight in coverage. Now imagine those same receivers running against only three or four if teams stack the line to stop the run.
They’ve been talking about getting back to the run for a while. Teams will need to actually see it first before they worry. Also, there is this thing called play action and we have a QB who can hurt defenses through the air, or with his legs. A running game will only help the passing game.
Well let me put it this way. Boxers knew when they faced Mike Tyson that he was going to try and punch them in the face. Didn’t stop it from happening. 😋
perfect!!
everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face…
Theres only a handful or 2 of teams who can cover Doug Baldwin 1 on 1. Stacking the box takes the double team away, or the extra safety. Russell was fantastic last year with like 0 stacked boxes lol.
If we get defenses to stack the box we’re winning, Russell with easy secondaries to torch is best case scenario. That’s putting your best player in the best position to succeed.
I think I’m the only one banging the drum…
But I would like to see Dez brought in for a look and hear what his contract demands are…. I know he wants a one year prove to t
Yeah, not me. We just paid a heavy price to clean house. No need to invite problems in this early after the purge.
he was always a powder keg, like Sherman, but with less production and more drama.
Not even productive anymore, and after seeing him during the Boys/Hawks last year, not a “team guy”
Not what Pete is looking for
Agreed. Dez is a diva, an aging one that overestimates his declining value.
I’m with you! Dez is a baller. Only thing I’d worry about is him and angry Doug not meshing well in the WR room.
There’s a reason Dez isn’t a Cowboy anymore. It’s because he could no longer get open, and wasn’t winning many 50/50 balls. He was done in Dallas. I don’t know why someone would think he’d be less done in Seahawks blue. We wouldn’t get to see why he used to be a star (those years are gone), we’d only get to witness why he was let go.
In the last 2 years I have not seen the I formation play action pass and to be honest that was a very good play for us. It seems like there were a few plays that we used to slow the pass rush down but we just couldn’t execute then. The draw play and the screen pass. I’ll bet you you will see more of that this year than you seen in the last couple of years. That’s one of the things that excites me about this team.
> no pressure to get him the football
That. That right there.
Really looking forward to seeing these guys out on the field and hopefully getting back to what Seahawks football used to look like.
+1
Rob: Any I idea how much cap savings by cutting Avril.
Around 7-7.25 mil. I think it drops by 1.5 mil if he gets the injury compensation
5.875M IIRC. Would have been 7.125 if he had passed the physical I believe.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/5/5/17322298/cliff-avril-injury-designation-seattle-seahawks-article-45-cba-weekly-payments-aboushi
From what I get if he passes physical to play for another team we don’t have anything to pay. If on the other hand he can’t pass a physical for any other team it will cost us 1.5 million. This is my understanding, I may be wrong with all that lawyer crap in the CBA agreement.
Pretty much what this article stated. And he would not cost the full 100% of the 1.5M now.. it is spread out over 17 weeks of the regular season. So he gets a check for 100K or so per game. Seems fair.
Dissly = total throwback TE.. in a really good way. Really digging how they went after things in this draft.
Dissly looks to me like a guy you’d hate to meet in a dark alley. A really big, tough guy, I get that vibe anyway.
I have high hopes for him as a Seahawk TE in the more traditional role from yesteryear. The Anti-JG.
Avril was such a great signing but, boy, when PCJS blow my it up, they go all in
To those in twittersphere upset that we took Dissly too early, I would say…
No one would have been upset if it was instead Griffin in the 4th and Dissly in the 5th. Well…we got Dissly in the 4th and Griffin in the 5th. The end-game is the same.
I, for one, am happy to see them go get their guys and really feel like the absence of that blocking-TE component held this team back in so many ways.
Excellent point. I am glad we got both, no matter what the order. The more I study the Hawks draft, the more I like it. Not a lot of flash, but I think we may have a lot of great contributors for years to come.
If say we traded back into the early 2nd round and picked up a late 2nd and took Green at #35 and Penny at #59, then we picked up Griffin in the 4th and Dissly in the 5th would we get a higher draft grade from people….I say yes.
But who cares right? We got the guys we wanted at positions of need.
Agree, and hoping one of the rookie minicamp FB’s they brought in can be a FB who can REALLY BLOCK. That in addition to blocking TE’s should really help re-establish the running game.
I’ll miss Cliff Avril. I hope he will be happy and healthy. Rad dude for sure
Agreed – always an underrated guy given how outspoken his teammates are. Hope he gets into media/coaching – seemed good at it from his limited media exposure. Also a really selfless guy – could have made a lot more money but clearly valued winning/situation more than money.
St ion to Rob, Kenny, Vol and anyone else that may have an opinion, since Seattle seemed to identify most all the areas they really needed to build up and then did a pretty good job filling those gaps, why didn’t they do more with the PK spot? They actuation and lose games over the course of the season.
A more specific question, why didn’t they go after Eddy Pineiro to fill that void. He would have been an upgrade over our current two candidates, correct?
I’m wondering if the announcement of the Maxwell signing was announced after the first round. To say this is why we didn’t feel like we needed to draft a first round cb. We’re good with what we got.
I think it’s the other way around. As long as they didn’t have Maxwell there was uncertainty in other teams as to who the Hawks were targeting. If they had signed him the day before the draft I can almost guarantee Oliver wouldn’t have been nearly as interesting.
my guess is that the Hawks had an offer out for Maxwell, but Maxie was waiting to see if he could get more money elsewhere. The team told him if he didn’t sign before day 2 of the draft started, they would be obligated to rescind the contract offer and draft a DB. Hence, the timing of the signing.
“And hey — if they can run the ball this year and with Russell Wilson at quarterback, we shouldn’t set any limitations for what they can achieve.” Amen to that! If RW plays consistently well with a decent run game, then this offense will be elite.
Exactly, the seahawks win time of possession and every single game will be within reach. It also will be a huge benefit to a young fast defense.
Anyone seen the Penney/Barcley highlight video? (link below)
They alternate highlights of each player & it’s really interesting as a comparison. One of my takes from this(beyond my growing optimism for Penney) was the often quoted, “he runs too high”. From my observations,
both backs run a little high with the angle between back of head & back of butt being about a 12-15% angle
for Barcley and maybe 10-12% angle for Penney. Both players are upright once they are in the open field.
Nobody can watch this and not see 2 superior RB prospects. Barcley, to my eye is closer to a comp of Shaun Alexander than beast-mode. He is fantastic with his jump cuts, lateral movements and also is very fast.
However, for a team that wants to establish a great running game, I’m of the opinion that PC/JS might very well have had Penney and Barcley very close on their big board. Penney is the #1 perfect RB for the “new” Seahawks system, in the preseason, everybody will finally see and realize that as a fact.
LINK: Barcley VS: Penney;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_THDxZhGrs
I see on the Seahawks roster page they will have Dissly wearing #88. Trying to make a statement maybe?
His number in college was 98 from his DE days, I think it’s just the closest and most easily available option for him. I do get what you mean though
Seahawks official udfa class
Emmanuel Beal, linebacker from Oklahoma,
Tanner Carew, long snapper from Oregon,
Poona Ford, defensive tackle from Texas,
Marcell Frazier, defensive end from Missouri,
Jason Hall, linebacker from Texas,
Khalid Hill, fullback from Michigan,
Warren Long, linebacker from Northwestern,
Brad Lundblade, center from Oklahoma State,
Marcus Martin, fullback from Slippery Rock,
Skyler Phillips, guard from Idaho State,
Jake Pugh, linebacker from Florida State,
Caleb Scott, wide receiver from Vanderbilt
Ka’Raun White, wide receiver from West Virginia,
Taj Williams, wide receiver from Texas Christian and
Eddy Wilson, defensive tackle from Purdue.
There are some fine players within this group. Not sure all of them make it to training camp, but a good number will make it. As PC said a few days ago, there will be plenty of competition across the board at almost every position. I suspect the ST will be significantly improved this year, with a large infusion of talent and “hungry” youth.
Maybe I’m misinformed, but I think Warren Long and Jason Hall are strong safeties.
I think this is what the Seahawks put out in their press release…. so they view these players in these positions…. not a stretch to think some of the guys are more a SS than a LB…. let’s see if they stick on the 90 man roster 😀
I’ve been critical through the years they haven’t had a stud blocking TE. It made no sense to think you wanting to be a running team without a TE who can block well. Ryan Hannam and Zach Miller proved the power of a blocking TE.
I totally supported the Graham trade when it happened. My biggest problem was they didn’t ALSO have a Ryan Hannam on the roster to back him up. I’d say Zach Miller, but Hannam was a low-cost guy who played his role (dominant blocker) and played it extremely well.
They talked after the draft a few years ago how Vannett was the best blocking TE in that draft, but we haven’t seen that great blocking from him yet. If you haven’t seen it after two years, it’s probably not there (though they did say he was a better pass catcher/route runner than they expected). I think Vannett will be okay though. He won’t be a stud blocker, but he’ll be just as good as Willson ever was (though I think most think Willson was a better blocker than he was, probably in part because he was compared to the horrible Graham and his “blocking”).
It will be nice to be able to seal the edge this year. No doubt.
Also, adding the best blocking FB was an under the radar UFA signing that I’m excited about, too. It bolds well for them becoming the bully again moving forward.
On this team potentially being much better than 9-7 again (I’ve been quite optimistic), I saw a stat on Twitter recently concerning how bad the Seahawks ST were. One aspect was that if the Seahawks would have had the same punting as the Rams this past year, their season record would have improved by 1.2 wins. That would have made them 10-6 with an outside chance at 11-5 this past year based on punting alone. And that’s with a worthless Blair Walsh on the roster. I truly love the commitment to the ST this off-season (remember saying the opposite last year). Great teams can actually somewhat suck if their ST are terrible.
And, yes, on all the Cliff Avril stuff. What a stud. Will always be thankful for that guy. Helped this team, never complained, and making the world a better place. What’s not to love? Wish him nothing but the best moving forward.
And the flip side is that good ST can make both the offense and defense better, totally agree on excitement about the commitment to making special teams better.
Call me optimistic too, but I’m on board with a real chance at going 11-5 this season. I see it like this:
Lost Jimmy Graham — moot point if the running game can produce around league average of 10-12 rushing TDs
Lost Sherman (my jersey…) — BMax was more than adequate replacement. No significant dropoff imho
Lost Kam *maybe* — McDougald balled out. He’s not Kam who’s A+, but still a solid B+.
Lost Preach — Brown & co (the new WRs) I feel have a great shot to make up the difference. Plus a healthy Lockett
Lost Blair — good riddance and welcome to town Janki-leg (reference to the song “do the stanky leg”)
Lost Sheldon — Johnson and Stephens. Arguably a modest dropoff. Pair with a 1 year better Reed. No concerns.
Lost Avril — that one hurts. Hopefully Jordan, Clark, Green, Smith can stay healthy and mitigate the loss
Lost Bennett — ^^^See Green & Clark. Maybe some pass rush from Reed and Naz and/or Johnson as well
Lost Lacy and Rawls — Penny & Carson, Penny & Carson, Penny & Carson. Enough said.
Lost Joeckel (likely to lose him) — Pocic +1 year in weight room, and bad boy Fluker. Upgrades.
Added
Mingo — could be a stud for pass rush. Never used properly in the past.
Fluker — road grader.
Dissly & Dickson — TE’s that can block. Team that wants to run. Sounds like a good thing to me.
Penny — Penny & Carson, Penny & Carson, Penny & Carson… also, NOT Lacy & Rawls.
Green — Not going to be a huge impact this season imho.
Shaquem — I don’t know what this kid is gonna do, but it’ll be fucking awesome when he does it!
Punter Dickson — I love me some Ginger Ninja but this kid is legit. MVP of a bowl game as punter!?
In a nutshell:
I feel like we took no steps back that are not fully or mostly accounted for outside of Avril. I feel we drastically improved our run game which should take care of lost production from Graham and Preach, and likely open up all sorts of opportunities for Russel and WRs that weren’t there last year due to abysmal rushing. We likely drastically improved our punting game to elite NFL level with Aussie Rules Dickson. We added some pieces to the pass rush that could have real dividends with Mingo, Jordan & Shaquem (and others, but I’m banking on those 3 to make the biggest impact). Our kicking game is modestly improved (a modest improvement in kicking game last year would have netted 2 more wins at least). There’s speed everywhere, especially on special teams.
Predictions:
We are going to ground & pound and then drop one over the top when we catch the defense cheating forward. We have a true 1000 yard rusher and two rushers with at least 4.2ypc avg. If RBs stay healthy I bet we have a combined 1600+ rush yards this season. Russel still flirts with 30 passing TDs. Defense is top 10 in run & pass, but better against the run. Dion Jordan gets between 8-12 sacks. Frank Clark gets 10+ sacks. Shaquem does something awesome that we’ll never forget… until he does something else awesome that we’ll never forget. Earl Thomas plays with his hair on fire regardless of the noise surrounding him. We take the division and go 11-5 finishing between 2nd-4th place in the NFC. From there its anyone’s guess, but I don’t see any reason we won’t be good enough to take a run at the Super Bowl. Imho, this team is better now than the team that stuck it to the Eagles least year. If this is true, then yes, we are definitely still in contention for Super Bowl with a brighter future in the follwoing seasons to come.
They would have been 11-5…. off 2 made FGs (instead of missed).
That is how close 11-5 and 9-7 is in the NFL.
Totally agree re Vannett. I think in an era where blocking TE are hard to find they thought he could do it and it didn’t work out. I’ll never forget them drafting Vannett and the panel saying the Seahawks’ looked at him as a blocker and Urban Meyers reaction on the broadcast was basically – good player but not a classic Y TE.
Hannam was not a dominant blocker. He was decent. You’re rememberin him in a much more positive light than he actual played. Compared to Jimmy he’s Mark Bavaro. Special teams has been one of my biggest issues with this team for a couple of years now. Coverage teams, field goal/PAT, it was obvious that they were missing some guys. The hope now is that they return to upper-half of the league or better and honestly, they should be a much improved team.
He was much more than decent. He wasn’t Jimmy Kleinsasser, but he was very good. If he was merely “decent” there’s no way the Cowboys would have signed him to the contract they did that off-season because everyone knows he wasn’t a great receiving TE (the Seahawks had a receiving TE). He got that contract (small by standards today) because he was a great blocker. Then the knee condition really kicked in and his career was over.
So, after doing some digging on overthecap, I think Kam stays under contract until next year, probably on an injured list or something.
The dead money and cap savings breakdown for this and next year:
2018: Dead $: 14.3M. Cap Savings: $4.718M
2019: Dead $: 5M. Cap Savings: $8M
Also, I think finding Wagner’s replacement is going to be a priority in the 2019 draft, and it’s looking stacked for ILB. If we traded Wagner we could save $14.1M. I know hes going to be 28 this year, but LBs have a short shelf life, and we could likely get a 1st or 2 for a 29 year old Wagner who has always been a beast. If we just cut him (probably not likely) we would save $11.5M
In my mind, Wagner is the clear leader on defense this year. I don’t think that’s a good idea, especially without someone already groomed to take his place.
There are great options coming up. Bobby was a stud from his first snap.
Getting rid of Bobby Wagner for those reasons is like choosing not to franchise Steve Hutchinson because the team would save a few hundred thousand bucks. There’s a reason franchise players get franchise money and Bobby (and Luke) are the stud MLBs of this generation. Looks at the studs from the previous generation (Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher), they played a long time. Wagz still has plenty tread on his tires and he loves football. His main interest is football. Something to be said for paying a players who’s #1 priority in life is his passion (or “job”).
It’s the same concept as Earl, trade them before they lose value. LBs usually last 8 years. I’m saying trade him after his 7th for top value. It’s amazing that hes never been hurt and isn’t slowing down, we should take advantage of that. We could legitimately get 2 first rounders and then some. We need the young players more than Wagner for 2 or 3 more years.
Only difference is Wagner is going to be easier to replace and wed actually get top value for him.
Coleslaw. Come on man. Getting rid of Bobby Wagner. As John McEnroe would say: “You cannot be serious”. Bobby Wagner is the best player on defense.
Rob has noted JS’s unwillingness to pay a massive final contract to aging stars. That’s what we’d be looking at after 1 more season. Hed be 29 and have had close to 1,000 tackles. It’s unpopular but so was trading Earl and cutting Sherman and trading Bennett. It’s a Patriots move.
We traded Earl I haven’t seen that.
It was unpopular when it first became a topic of discussion, then we realized it was a legit possibility.
So basically Earl Thomas has not been traded and the rights of him playing in the NFL still reside with the Seahawks until something happens he’s on this team and I expect him to play. He’s not going to risk his HOF career now.
Ok? You’re missing the point.
So maybe try to sign him to an extension now, preferably two years frontloaded as much as possible with the money saved from Avril instead of waiting a year then doing a 3 yr deal.
Ask BAL if they wished they’d traded Ray Lewis before the 2013 season.
I’m saying after next year. You can’t even compare the 2 situations lol 1 player doesn’t win a super bowl.
And they went to carp right after that year due to having no money, and a super expensive QB. If they had lost that super bowl I’m sure they would say hell yeah they should have traded him.
+1000 and if we ever traded bwags I’m OUT. Moving on to Mariners. Btw that and them flirting with traded Earl ….. too much.
Don’t get upset with me I actually don’t see the point of trading Bobby Wagner and to be honest I hope to see 2 of the Legion of Boom on this team next year and if Earl leaves with out a contract, I won’t fault him what so ever kindia like when A-Rod left he fulfilled his contract and has ever right to make as much money as he can while he can play. those are my feeling.
So you’re against trading them because you want to let them walk 1 year later? Agree to disagree. This isn’t about Earl. It’s about Wagner’s trade value far exceeding his actual future value. 2 1st round players for 6 or 7 years each is so much better than Wagner for the next 2. After that he will certainty be declining and breaking down. It’s amazing that hasn’t happened yet, and it surely will soon, so get top dollar while you can and get a new team in here unless you wanna go back to the cellar for 30 years.
There are legit options to replace him in the upcoming draft and we’ve seen with Bobby that rookie ILBs can succeed in our defense. If we had a 2nd this year I’m certain we would have draft Malik Jefferson and this plan would already be in place. Pete Carroll has been saying for years he wants young LBs who can actually push Bobby and KJ. Now they’re both older and we have to find replacements soon anyway, why not now and get 2 additional 1st rounders to help the rest of the team? All for 1-2 years of Bobby? We’ve seen this off season the FO will sacrifice our stars for the future of the franchise. IMO this would be an excellent way to rebuild the roster. It wouldn’t be popular for a couple years but after than when Wagner retires and we have 2 young studs, or more since we trade down, we could turn Wagner into 3 2nds, 2 3rds and a few 4ths.
It fits where we are as a franchise right now more than spending to keep him like were in win now mode.
*but after Wagner retires and we have those guys we would be happy we did it, instead of being left with empty arms.
Get your point and it definitely has some merit. Like you said, its the Patriots way. JSPC fell into the trap of big third contracts for star players, and it hasn’t worked out very well overall.
I do think you’re greatly overestimating Bobby’s value though. There’s no way any team would give up two 1st rounders for him. If teams aren’t giving up a single 1st for Earl, who is arguably a better player (at least a stronger pedigree), two 1’s isn’t possible. Does it change your decision to trade him if you can only get a 2nd and a 4th?
Plus $14M in cap savings for one Mr. Russell Wilson, who’s team is saying they’re looking at the franchise tag option, which would require us to pay him $52M the 3rd year, or forces his way to free agency. We need to lock him up and build a new team around him, we can’t pay $14M for a 1 year deal.
The sooner we understand RW will make 30M + on a new deal, the better everyone will feel about it when he get’s the deal. JS was talking with Brock and Saulk about it a few days ago.. they broke the Matt Ryan signing news… he was quiet for a few seconds…. then just giggled a little bit. He sees the writing on the wall…. QBs are being paid kings randoms of money. QBs are being over valued in the current market…..
Coleslaw. What team is going to give the Seahawks two 1st round picks for a 29 year old linebacker. The best John Schneider was offered was a 3rd round pick for a 29 year old safety. Please be specific.
Make no mistake here but Bobby Wagner is and has been the leader of this defense since he started. He calls the defense and plays directly in the middle of the field and in his time in the NFL it has been him and Luke Kuechly that ever one has said are number 1 and 2 and I have to agree. Russel Wilson is the leader on offense and Bobby is the leader on defense and he still has a couple years left on his contract. Regardless of what many think this LB squad I believe was the strength of this defense which was a big reason we made it to the Superbowl twice. They are the strength of this defense going forward if we wish to continue. This is my belief I just don’t see a trade.
We are not getting two 1st rounders for BWagz. That is a pipe dream. Earl didn’t even get one first round offer or he would be playing for someone else. I understand why we value these guys so high, but we are not the only organization trying to be the Patriots. There are 30 others trying to do the same things. We will keep BWagz until he cant play any longer.
Bobby Wagner isn’t going anywhere.
They love him.
The trade value won’t be good enough to part with him.
He’s a team player.
He’ll be here for a long time to come.
Amen Rob the voice of reason once again..🙌
Sleeper alert:
A sneaky UDFA signing that may offer something nobody is talking about (or aware of) as a defensive
player is this ——>Marcus Martin (6-2/255) dude that was signed as an UDFA he has some pretty interesting background as a slightly undersized DE at Slippery Rock. It would seem we are looking at him as a FB prospect, which he’s done before, however, as stated in the link below:
****Marcus Martin holds the -All time, All division NCAA record for SACKS****
https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2017-10-28/marcus-martin-sets-ncaa-all-division-sack-record-dii-slippery-rocks
Marcus Martin prospect profile: (with pro day testing #’s, that aren’t too darn bad.)
http://pigskinprospects.com/players/marcus-martin-2/
Marcus Martin Career stats as a DE @ (Division 2) Slippery Rock.
48-games, 302-tkls, 92.5-TFL, 56-Sacks, 6-PBU, 6-FF, 7-FR (What a stat line!)
Talk about an under the radar signing, this kid could be more than just a FB? Maybe a Leo? He sure
sounds like a “shark in a mud puddle” & damn, the Seahawk scouts dig really deep (and well).
I’d like to add my kudos to Cliff. I’m really going to miss Sherman and Bennett, both of whom do a lot of good stuff off the field as well as on it, but Cliff mnade his presence felt almost purely by his deeds, on and off. I visited Haiti briefly many years ago, and was amazed at the beauty of the people, how hard they worked, and the joyfulness of their art despite their brutal hstory and their disgusting “government” under the Duvaliers. I am proudest of Cliff for honoring his roots and doing something substantial for the people of Haiti, but I’ll also miss his brilliant plays at key moments against the better QB’s
Right on, great post Heron! Cliff is awesome for helping the people of Haiti!
Hey Rob! Are you going to be profiling any choice UDFAs as well? Interested to hear your take on some of the WRs they picked up.
Thanks!
Carroll called it “extremely important” for Griffin to shift his focus to football.
“It’s been a great story. It will always be a great story, but right now he’s got work to do and he’s got focus that he’s got to generate,” Carroll said. “There’s a lot of people tugging on him for all of the right reasons and all that, but I know he’s very determined and we are to help him in his pursuit of making the club and making the spot and all of that.
“He’s like everybody else. He’s got to compete like everybody. He’s going to do it. He’s going to bring it. But it’s important, and the fact that he’s talking to you guys about it, he understands and he’s gotten the message and he’s very clear about it. So we appreciate [the media] giving him a chance for everybody that’s working. It’s just such a wonderful story — he’s a wonderful kid and all that. I get it. But right now, it’s ball.”
~ ESPN
I heard on Clayton today that Shaq had to be talked to multiple times today about his effort. the problem with his effort was he didn’t need to go all out but wouldn’t go any less then all out. I’m not worried at all that this guy isn’t all about football.
For (hopefully) obvious reasons, can we all agree NOT to refer to either Griffin bro as merely “Shaq” or “Griffin”?
Amen.
The newest brother we often call Quem, is called Shaq by his brother (Called Quill) and his family. Wouldn’t be the worst idea For us to agree to do the same
Great point Hawktalker #1, that certainly makes the most sense to me!
Or we could call them S Griff #1 and S Griff #2 ?
No, I think not.
I’m going to call him baller
Here’s my early top 10 with a full big board coming out Monday morning (May 7).
~ Matt Miller Bleacher Report
1. Nick Bosa, EDGE, Ohio State
2. Ed Oliver, DL, Houston
3. Rashan Gary, DL, Michigan
4. Justin Herbert, QB, Oregon
5. Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama
6. Trey Adams, OT, Washington
7. A.J. Brown, WR, Ole Miss
8. Greg Little, OT, Ole Miss
9. Dre’Mont Jones, DL, Ohio State
10. Clelin Ferrell, EDGE, Clemson
I was not aware that the tackle from UW was that highly thought of already….. might have to keep a keen eye on him this upcoming season. Is Nick Bosa really that could? or is his brother’s abilities rubbing off on him and giving him a bit extra shine (?) going into the 2019 draft. And are you telling me, there are absolutely no QBs worth mentioning as top 10 prospects in 2019?
…besides the kid from Oregon at QB….. find it hard to believe in all honesty
I’ll throw a name of a player not mentioned by rob that I will be watching Andrew Van Ginkel OL Wisconsin.
Ack my mistake he’s an OLB the keyboard I have is old and certain keys you have to beat to get it to type out.
Mentioned him last post. Latest in a line of great LBs from that school recently. Fills up the stat sheet.
Going to miss Cliff Avril. A true pro. And when he left SB 49 with a concussion that game changed. If he doesn’t get hurt I believe Seahawks win.
I didn’t see the USC lineman amongst the names of UDFA signings. Is he not with us? I thought he was and I’ve heard him talked about on this blog. I even saw an article saying that he was one of their UDFA that had the greatest chance of making the team?
They’re bringing in 53 players for the workouts so he might be on trial
Saw his name as one of the tryout players
Dissly is going to be a better player for us than I think some predict.
He’s got quicker feet and better athleticism than it might first appear. And he’s tough–all team, all baller.
agreed
Think about how nasty a blocker he’ll be at 280 lbs after a year in an NFL lifting program.
Looking forward to the Michael Dickson break down…
http://dailysnark.com/seattle-seahawks-rookie-punter-launches-80-yard-punt-on-2nd-day-of-practice/
Waiting for the Onion headline:
After drafting of Michael Dickson, NFL owners change course, abolish punt.
Can’t put into words how much I love that clip. Really looking forward to using that secret weapon many times over the course of the season (However, it wouldn’t bother me if we scored every time we touched the ball and never had to use him either)
That was an, “so you didn’t like trading up to draft me? How do you like me now?” Boomer.
Here’s a full list of Seattle’s undrafted free agent signings with jersey numbers:
8 Ka’Raun White WR 6-1 206 West Virginia
10 Caleb Scott WR 6-2 203 Vanderbilt
15 Taj Williams WR 6-3 199 TCU
34 Marcus Martin FB 6-1 250 Slippery Rock
40 Khalid Hill FB 6-2 263 Michigan
43 Emmanuel Beal LB 6-0 223 Oklahoma
46 Jason Hall LB 6-2 219 Texas
47 Tanner Carew LS 6-1 245 Oregon
48 Warren Long LB 5-11 212 Northwestern
52 Jake Pugh LB 6-4 246 Florida State
58 Marcell Frazier DE 6-4 261 Missouri
60 Eddy Wilson DT 6-3 301 Purdue
61 Brad Lundblade C 6-3 295 Oklahoma State
72 Skyler Phillips G 6-3 318 Idaho State
97 Poona Ford DT 5-11 312 Texas
The name that jumps out at me from that list is Skyler Phillips. I remember that the analytics guy James Cobern had him surprisingly high, in fact among his top 5 guards based on analytics. He did a video on that on his YouTube channel — commonmanfootball
I’m most interested in the wide receivers and Hill the fullback. From the little information I found:
White;
In 2017 he totaled 61 receptions for 1,004 yards and 12 touchdowns as the No. 2 receiver for the Mountaineers. He had 48 catches for 583 yards and five touchdowns in 2016. Amazing amount of yardage.
Hill:
Weight 263, 40 yard time 4.71. He recorded 17 carries for 34 yards and three touchdowns in 2017. He blocked well for Michigan, plus he had five receptions for 62 yards. Hill did not work out at the combine.
Looking forward to watching those two.
Kenny, I was reading an article on how to find draft gems in the UDRFA market….
they mentioned taking a look at high school rated 4 and 5 star guys that fell off the radar in college.
Have you ever done that, when you are researching guys… deep diving into their HS ratings?
Yeah, sometimes, and now I’ve begun following HS recruiting much more closely to be more in tune with where these guys have come from
I have advocated that approach for more than a decade on a Dolphins message board. I’ve mentioned it so often they get sick of me mentioning it.
Everything tends to drift back to the beginning. So when it comes to undrafted free agents throw out your opinion and throw out the recent tape. Logically not every kid will choose the correct college, and not every college coaching staff will make the correct moves in how to use a payer or even his best position.
But find someone who had elite talent and expectations a few years ago and you’ve got a far greater opportunity to occasionally hit big than if you load up on boring late blooming overachieving stiffs. That type regulates your upside.
I’ve been thinking about the Sherman vacated CB job a bit and watched a few of last year’s games to get some Intel.
The thought I have been wrestling with is that Although I really like Maxie and I think he is a great BU fit for the Hawks, it seems like he gets beaten easily, especially on deeper routes where more speed is required. (He seems way to slow in coverage)
The questions that came from my game review and related memory/belief of Maxie’s performance are:
1a. Where are the other CBs in there progress and readiness to start for the Hawks?
(Seems like we have has a few in dev lop meant for a while, but none of them seemed ready for prime time.
1b. Is it time to reload with some new developmental players?
2. Do we really have an issue/risk starting Maxie where if we and other teams see that same weakness and deficiency they will start targeting him to get a significant advantage in our secondary?
(I feel that’s what I would do if I knew Maxie had a pertinent spot in a secondary I was playing against.)
Also reviewed some recent info on Tre’s transition to the CB spot, but seems like he will need at least a year of development before he is ready for serious snaps at what will basically be a new position for him.
Thanks all!!!
One of Neiko Thorpe, Mike Tyson or Deandre Elliott are going to have to play some meaningful minutes in 2018 that’s for sure. Time to put their big boy pants on.
Don’t sleep on Johnson. In this system he may shine. I know SF is trying to replicate it, but they don’t have coach Carroll, the greatest dB coach.
I just can’t shake the feeling he’s another Cary Williams / Perrish Cox. Hope I’m wrong.
Well, at worst he is a helluva lot cheaper than Cary Williams was. My own concern is that he will be another Tharold Simon. That dude had the body and athleticism Pete looks for, but could not grasp the technique or the mental game, apparently.
I wouldn’t want Maxwell to be our #1 either he played well, but I’ve been saying it for a while, he is just old and slow. He’ll be awesome depth, a true plug and play, but we’ve seen how cBs can get picked on. They really liked Elliot to the point where he even got some playing time in his rookie season. If he has kept his nose in the playbooks, i expect him to start next to shaq &shaq
In regards to Dickson/Dissly. Philadelphia and New England ran a ton of two end formations. Here is what is interesting. Belichick was so worried about stopping the run that he used 5 men on the defensive line for a majority of the game. So having two tight-end formations is a good thing.
Dickson punting it 80 yards in training. Obviously a game is totally different, but that’s a pretty handy leg.