I’m splitting this article into two parts. Firstly, some notes and quotes from Pete Carroll’s final press conference. Secondly, some thoughts after studying the top ranked cornerbacks in the 2017 draft.
Pete Carroll’s final press conference
On Seattle’s needs going into the off-season, Carroll listed the following:
— Secondary
— Young depth at linebacker
— O-line
Carroll has been very honest about off-season needs in the past. After the 2010 season he highlighted the need to dramatically improve the running game and they spent their first two picks on run blocking O-liners (James Carpenter, John Moffitt). Before the 2012 season he stated more speed in the front seven was the big need. They drafted Bruce Irvin and Bobby Wagner.
It doesn’t expel them from targeting a different area of the team (eg, if the opportunity to sign Calais Campbell presents itself). Yet the needs listed today will likely be prioritised.
On Jimmy Graham: “I’m excited for him to come back.”
There’s no need to continue debating his presence on the roster. The Seahawks have $40m in cap space, more than enough to compete for additions. They don’t need to save an extra $10m and they certainly don’t need to create an unnecessary void at tight end by moving one of the NFL’s best players.
When asked if they should spend more money on the offensive line, Carroll explained why they’d essentially been forced to go with a younger O-line this year, before adding: “We’re not going to spend a ton of money on one guy to save the day… I don’t think you can buy your way to it.”
Carroll admitted Germain Ifedi has the ability to play guard or tackle but will remain at right guard for the sake of continuity.
Not making a host of changes was a common theme. “(It’s a) chance to come back with the same group… but we’ll challenge them.” Carroll talked about adding one or possibly two offensive linemen in the draft and also made a reference to free agency. It didn’t sound like a major O-line rebuild was in the works.
On George Fant: “He made a big impact on us.” It sounds like he’s the future at left tackle, at least for now. Rees Odhiambo could compete for that job.
He admitted some concern about the durability of C.J. Prosise: “He has to show it.” Carroll seemed less concerned about Thomas Rawls’ injury problems, referencing the incidental nature of his broken leg and previous broken ankle.
He talked positively about the running back group, name checking Rawls, Prosise and Alex Collins, “plus whatever else comes up.” Adding a running back to the competition seems likely — but it didn’t sound like a major priority either.
When asked about criticism of Darrell Bevell and certain fans wanting a change, Carroll fired back, “They don’t know what they’re talking about. Darrell does a great job.” He also ruled out any other coaching changes unless Tom Cable becomes the Head Coach in San Francisco.
Unsurprisingly he also made reference to the run/pass balance: “I don’t like how it split this year. That’s not how it’s supposed to be.” Expect a greater commitment to the running game in 2017. A healthy Russell Wilson and Thomas Rawls will help.
We know what to focus on now. Defensive backs, offensive linemen, linebacker depth. Here are two possible early round targets at each identified need area:
OT — Garett Bolles (Utah), Ryan Ramczyck (Wisconsin)
LB — Zach Cunningham (Vanderbilt), Haason Reddick (Temple)
DB — Adoree’ Jackson (USC), Kevin King (Washington)
Studying the cornerback class
I’ve been eager to look at this group. The Seahawks haven’t drafted a cornerback before the fourth round during the Pete Carroll era. Yet this is considered a deep draft at the position at a time when Seattle’s depth has never been lighter. They’re young and raw and incumbent starter Deshawn Shead could miss the start of next season with a serious knee injury.
Yesterday I watched at least one game of all of the top ranked corner’s according to draft media.
The lasting impression was it’s clearly a deep group of good cornerbacks. However, it wasn’t easy to find guys that leap off the screen. It’s very easy to throw on some Garett Bolles tape, watch Solomon Thomas’ Bowl game, enjoy Malik Hooker’s range or the relentless nature of several EDGE rushers in this draft and be wowed.
The cornerbacks all shared similar features. Generally they’re decent cover corners that aren’t physically imposing. Some of them are sub-6-0. The tackling form wasn’t great across the board. Run support was mixed.
I wanted to see a Jimmy Smith type — 6-2, 210lbs, physical, runs in the 4.4’s. Alabama’s Marlon Humphrey might be the closest thing if he declares — but he likely won’t last beyond the top-15.
The Seahawks have such a clear and defined approach with cornerbacks — draft and develop their own — that any potential early round pick at the position probably needs to be a physical freak with major upside. We also know they have a specific profile for size and length.
We’ll have a better idea of who they might target after the combine. There’s certainly potential within some of these prospects to be fantastic athletes. The Seahawks could always draft someone to play in the slot. Carroll offered a lukewarm assessment of Jeremy Lane’s season earlier. If they wanted to add some competition there that would possibly take away the need to focus on tremendous size/length and prioritise suddenness and athleticism.
The freakiest athlete could be Washington’s Kevin King. He’s 6-3 and 192lbs but look at how he performed at last years Husky combine:
4.02 short shuttle
6.40 3-cone
39.5 inch vert
10-10 broad
He’ll probably only run a similar forty time to Richard Sherman (4.56) but these are crazy numbers.
King’s three cone of 6.40 would’ve been easily the best by a cornerback at the 2016 combine. Maryland’s Sean Davis ran the fastest time a year ago with a 6.64.
If he repeats it at the NFL combine, it might be the best three-cone by a cornerback ever. Buster Skrine’s 6.44 is the current best mark since records began in 2006.
His broad jump of 10-10 matches Vernon Hargreaves’ effort and would’ve been the third best in 2016 (Jalen Ramsey was #1 with an 11-3). His vertical jump would’ve also been the third best at last years combine (DeAndre Elliott incidentally had a 41 inch vertical).
His short shuttle would’ve ranked at #6.
If King can replicate these numbers in Indianapolis, he could easily find a home in the first round.
In November Tony Pauline reported teams were ‘salivating’ over King.
Long speed is a concern and pre-draft forty times are critical but as told to me by one insider, King is a typical Seattle Seahawks type of cornerback who will be selected during the second day of the draft.
Pauline added on December 13th he believes King could be a top-45 pick.
In terms of prototype Seahawks size and length for an outside corner, he ticks the boxes. In terms of freakish athleticism, he has that too.
He also had a productive 2016 season. King defended 15 passes, tied for #16 in the country (level with Clemson’s Cordrea Tankersley). He also had two interceptions. He was targeted a lot as teams generally avoided Sidney Jones on the opposite side of the field. This is useful experience if he does end up playing across from Richard Sherman.
If they’re going to take a cornerback in round one, it could easily be Kevin King.
In terms of the rest of the class, I liked Ohio State’s Gareon Conley more than I expected. He doesn’t have insane size but there doesn’t appear to be much of a talent difference between Conley and team mate Marshon Lattimore. It was fun watching him match-up against Clemson’s Mike Williams. Both players had their moments.
Adoree’ Jackson is clearly a tremendous athlete. His 16 passes defended was tied 11th in the country with LSU’s Tre’Davious White. At the 2013 Nike SPARQ combine Jackson managed a 4.44 forty and a 37-inch vertical. His SPARQ score was a decent 122.7. He’s petit but could be an option as an explosive slot corner/safety hybrid. If providing competition for Jeremy Lane is a priority — Jackson could be a key target.
Two players I enjoyed watching again were the aforementioned White and Tennessee’s Cam Sutton. Both have a lot of value in the kicking game, they’re good athletes and respected leaders. In terms of character they’re top of the draft class at CB. White has had the coveted #18 jersey at LSU for the last two seasons. Sutton is a tremendous public speaker with a great backstory related to Hurricane Katrina. I think teams will like him.
The issue with both is size and length. They’re in that 5-10-5-11 range which is borderline for Seattle. We know the Seahawks want +32 inches in arm length. I’ll be rooting for both players at the combine. Sutton in particular is a very intriguing prospect overall.
Two players I expected more from were Quincy Wilson and Teez Tabor. Wilson looks thick set and lacks suddenness. Tabor equally didn’t stand out as an athlete. I went back and looked at the 2013 Nike combine numbers and they were revealing:
Quincy Wilson — 4.60 forty, 32 inch vertical
Teez Tabor — 4.64 forty, 35 inch vertical
They’ll need to do a lot better than that at the NFL combine. For whatever reason, a string of Florida Gator cornerbacks have not performed well in these testing events. Even Vernon Hargreaves last year ran an underwhelming 4.50.
Teams avoided throwing at Washington’s Sidney Jones all season — he was targeted only 48 times. It was clear to see, especially watching him live against Arizona State. He’s an athletic, technically gifted cornerback with major pro talent. He looks dinky in size — but so did Hargreaves and Eli Apple last year. It won’t be a surprise at all if he lands in the top-20.
Cordea Tankerlsey is intriguing but how much of an athlete is he? Tankersley can really bolster his stock with a good combine.
I’m going to spend more time looking at the group after the combine and Senior Bowl when we have measurements and physical profiles to work with. However, at this point I would project the following players have a good chance to go in the top-25:
Marlon Humphrey (Alabama)
Marshon Lattimore (Ohio State)
Sidney Jones (Washington)
Adoree’ Jackson (USC)
The following players could also work their way into the first round:
Kevin King (Washington)
Cordrea Tankersley (Clemson)
Gareon Conley (Ohio State)
I’m going to reserve judgement on Wilson and Tabor until after the combine and further study. Wilson is technically sound and can be physical. He’s cocky in a good way. He has a pro cornerback mentality. But he has to do more than a 4.6 and a 32 inch vertical to get ahead of some of these players.
None of this group are as exciting as Marcus Peters was entering the league. Arguably the NFL’s best cornerback these days, Peters just looked like a stud — size, length, physicality, ball skills, athleticism, attitude.
So it’s a deep class of good cornerbacks instead of 2-3 studs at the top of round one. If the Seahawks truly wanted to invest in the secondary, they should be able to get two solid defensive backs in the first four rounds.
I’m sure other names will emerge during the process. We’ll keep monitoring this class and I haven’t watched everyone yet. Colorado’s Akhello Witherspoon needs to work on his tackling — but he did a decent job covering John Ross. He could be a later round option at 6-3 and around 190lbs. Witherspoon was #2 in the country for passes defended (22).
The big stars of the 2017 draft might come at other positions. It’s a fantastic safety class and Malik Hooker in particular has a chance to be special. Whenever you watch Washington Budda Baker jumps off the screen. He’s a fantastic, underrated talent.
It could end up being a really productive group of defensive linemen and edge rushers. Solomon Thomas has generational potential. It’s easy to imagine Taco Charlton and Charles Harris having a big impact quickly in the league. Jonathan Allen is consistently disruptive at Alabama, while Takk McKinley has some DeMarcus Ware and some Ziggy Ansah to his play. Tim Williams has character flags to check out — but he had a tremendous career at Alabama.
The top two running backs — Leonard Fournette and Dalvin Cook — appear destined for greatness. Garett Bolles has a chance to be a really good offensive tackle in a league desperate for quality at the position. The top two tight ends — O.J. Howard and David Njoku — can also have a major impact.
And at linebacker — Reuben Foster could be another Luke Kuechly or Bobby Wagner. Zach Cunningham is another tremendous talent and Raekwon McMillan looked better on a second glance at Ohio State yesterday. Florida’s Jarrad Davis is one to watch.
Three round projection based on what we heard today:
R1 — Kevin King (Outside CB, Washington) or Adoree’ Jackson (Slot CB, USC)
R2 — Haason Reddick (LB, Temple)
R3 — Shalom Luani (S, Washington State)
R3 — Adam Bisnowaty (T, Pittsburgh)
And with approximately $37m in free cap space — they’ll have an opportunity to add to the D-line, O-line and possibly running back.
Another great write up and summary Rob thanks!
I think King would be an ideal Hawks corner. He could likely come in and start very early.
My preference is Jackson because he seems to be a better play maker and offers dynamic special teams potential. I think he could be the slot corner we have lacked. Do you think he is gone by #26?
There’s definitely a chance he’ll be gone by #26.
I think it would be hard for any corner to start right away. Everyone talks about how it takes time to learn the technique. To me, Jackson seems great because he has special teams value early on and can turn his raw skills into better technique over time. But like rob said, he might not be there.
Rob – add Witherspoon, cornerback Colorado to your watch list. 6’3 195 lbs with some decent tape.
Just watched his tape vs Washington.
Did a good job covering John Ross — but really needs to work on his tackling.
21 passes defended this year is very good.
When watching Colorado the safety Tedric Thompson jumped out at me. Seem a lot like Luani from Wash St.
I wonder if we’ll go for interior pressure/DT in FA or via draft
Possibly. It was interesting Carroll didn’t mention the pass rush at all today.
It probably depends on the options. If the right opportunity arises etc.
Carroll did mention right at the top of his presser that Quinton Jefferson was someone they were hoping would make a big contribution this year, but obviously couldn’t because of injury. They might see him as factor for next season.
I feel like Pete just handed me a crap sandwich. Now I just expect more of the same that we got this year. Believing that Cable’s doing a good job, that we can make the line work with what we have, that the interior DL isn’t a priority, that Jimmy Graham is an important part of this team moving forward, that we just need to patch up a few things and all is well.
Let’s just pray Cable gets the SF job! I would actually like to see Bevel design and offensive game plan with a functioning OL I think people will be surprised.
If Cable does leave, that means someone else in the front office will leave as well. That may not be a good thing. Personally, I think Cable is a tremendous ascet to the team and will be sorely missed, especially in the locker room.
Good package for SF would be a Hawks GM and Cable as Head Coach. For Seattle, that would resolve the split responsibility issues for the offense which may be in play.
They were half a game away from the #2 seed. Let’s not pretend there are titanic issues in Seattle.
A good draft, adding a couple of free agents and getting Russell Wilson healthy can lead to a big season in 2017.
As for the OL — what we have is a green, young O-line that clearly they believe has major talent and can grow. Pittsburgh have a great line currently — and yet 3/5’s of it is developed talent over time. Not first round picks or expensive FA’s. And Carroll did say they would look to improve the OL via draft or free agency.
What is REALLY AWESOME is that finally the Hawks can be players in free agency. Four years ago the Hawks siged both Cliff Avril and Micheal Bennett. This is the first time in 4 years that the Hawks can go and get some difference makers in the free agency market. You add a couple of key players in free agency. Plus add some talent in the draft and : BINGO : You ard knocking on the door of a real legitimate Super Bowl run.
But look at Big Ben’s injuries
Look at all the big hits Ben takes. Everyone talks about the offensive lines of Dallas and Oakland, but Pittsburgh’s belongs in the same conversation.
I don’t claim to be expert on this.
But isn’t one of the criticisms of Big Ben(and the reason he gets hit) is that he hangs around in the pocket too long waiting for the deep throw to become available, when he could be taking a quick throw to someone underneath?
Yes.
The Steelers game against the Chiefs, he was quick passing more I thought. They are trying to get the ball out of his hands quicker and limit the pounding he is taking.
Pete talks a great game. This team is closer to a 9-7 team than it is to being a legitimate Super Bowl contender. We are the Houston texans of the NFC. Pete talks, Belichick and the Pats just win.
I like the interior of our o- line: glow, Britt (I’ve come around to him as a center – I hated him as a huge reach watching him whiff constantly at tackle & guard, respectively) and ifedi. I’d like to see a tackle drafted and a veteran signed or acquired via trade for competition.
Cable is doing a good job, especially considering how little SEA spent on the position group. Cable helped Britt develop into one of the better, more athletic centers in the League; he took Fant, who is so raw it’s not accurate enough merely to call him a rookie, and has him developing into a potential franchise LT; it may have taken Ifedi an entire season (of which he missed the first quarter due to injury) but in the two playoff games this year he was blowing open monster running lanes (at least he was vs ATL until he left the game due to injury). Glowinski also showed well in the last couple of games. This was the youngest, most inexperienced OL in the NFL this year. They improved tremendously over the course of the season. Perhaps that improvement wasn’t as consistent week-to-week as we would’ve liked, but they did improve. Add some good competition to the group (and perhaps a vet FA acquisition), and they can make the OL work with what they have.
Jimmy Graham is an important part of the team. He was important in 2016 and he will be important moving forward. I understand the argument that he’s not being used to his full potential, or that his $10M salary might be better spent elsewhere, but I fail to understand the argument how SEA would be a better team by moving him. They don’t need the cap space, and they aren’t going to replace him with a better TE.
PC didn’t say that interior DL isn’t a priority. He just highlighted other areas of greater concern. And it’s possible he already has a plan on how to improve the interior DL. Maybe he’s got QJeff in mind, or maybe he and JS have already decided on being highly aggressive in FA (think Campbell or Poe).
The sky isn’t falling. There is no need to blow up the roster for this team to improve in 2017.
I’m not for blowing up the roster, or becoming chicken Little and saying that the sky is falling, but if we can’t ignore it we had a huge problem with the o-line, we’re fooling ourselves.
I also acknowledge that you can’t take everything the media says as fact, however it sure gets old to hear the media talking about what a dumpster fire Seattle has for an o line and having it become the butt of many jokes. There is truth in there somewhere.
Also, pulling some insane picks in the draft for cornerbacks, linebackers and safeties, defensive linemen are not going to help with our run blocking, run game, pass pro, and the passing game. We definitely need a strong solution in that area. I also have serious concern with the approach of working and waiting for a group guys that horribly underperform to magically become better next year. We just need to have some upgrades. How it happens can be debated, The fact that it needs to happen should not be.
But Seattle has spent a lot on the offensive line since PCJS has come onboard. More than the Cowboys, if you use Jimmy Johnson’s draft chart to value the picks.
Please explain to me how you can say Tom Cable is doing a good job? What is your basis for this?
Trevor. They lost 4 starting linemen in the span of 2 off-seasons or 1 calendar year and you don’t think that’s tough PLUS one of the greatest RBs in the history of the game? There were 2 #1s, a #2 and a pretty good DL convert who cashed in on FA. You are talking a complete rebuild in an area that demands continuity and experience in a position which rookies just don’t come in ready for prime time. He’s done a great job to keep them a contender and that would’ve been phenomenal IMO if Rawls and Russell had played the full year. Buckle up as there will be lots more bumps before they get dominant.
The failure isn’t in the challenge, but the choices.
PC/JS chose to stick with Nowak, keep Sokoli on the 53, sign Webb/Sowell, etc.
They are in complete rebuild because they’ve drafted poorly (including trading away picks for Harvin/Graham), evaluated poorly and developed poorly. In 2016, it caught up to them.
This line has potential and Cable should be able to develop it into a productive unit. Without upgrades, it will take about 2 – 3 years.
Hawks are 63-32-1 with Cable as coach.
Tom Cable is a position coach and that position OL has been one of the worst in the league during his tenure. With a good OL that record would be much better.
Yeah that’s how I read that, too.
-not going to hire an LT or any OL who are too expensive, when that’s what this line could use. Good LT are always expensive and if you can count on the left side, you can give Gilliam as much TE help as he needs. This would make things easier for Ifedi too. But no, we will wait for Fant to learn on the job, put him in there with Ifedi and Gilliam and say a few hail Mary’s. For the third season in a row. A good center, decent LG and chaos everywhere else.
-not going to look for an interior rusher, this has been a problem since Colin Cole. Even for the McDonald year and the Jordan Hill year, we didn’t have “good” inside pressure, but better-than-awful. Existant. Jefferson may help us reach existent, again.
-Carroll’s living in fantasy land with Bevell. This offense will underperform again. Hard to imagine Graham resigning to watch his talent waste away for a second contract. But, I would rather not pay him, if we don’t know how to use him, not getting cap value with him right now, and it isn’t his fault. It doesn’t look like this sits well with the defense, definitely is playing a role in the chemistry problems.
Carroll’s interview tells me he thinks we’re good enough, why not do everything he can to improve now and not waste anither year? Instead we stay on the bubble, Sherman, Bennett and Earl give it their all, and the F.O. prays that will be enough this time.
Allow me to retort:
1. Tom Cable needs to be called on the carpet. He has usually turned the OL into a good run-blocking group, but has never had a good pass-blocking unit. He sucks at it, and I think it’s in his character. Volume12 said the most insightful thing about Cable the other day; that Cable prizes toughness and grit above all else in his OL. That gets you a line that sucks. Where every guy is JR Sweezy, willing and able to plow his guy into the ground every 20 plays or so, but blows his assignment every five plays or so. Scariest thing I saw all season was a short training camp video clip of Cable working with the line. He was telling Hunt, “Don’t worry about technique, you don’t have time for that at this level.” W. T. F.?! Seriously. Anybody who has taught anything teaches do it right, then do it fast. Can you imagine if Richard was telling DBs, “Don’t worry about the kick-step, just chase the guy really fast and it will all work out.”
When you preach toughness over technique, you get sloppy line play. You get grit, not greatness. I’m not saying fire him, though I’d be fine with that, but we have to either stop pretending he’s doing a good job or stop trying to be a balanced, passing offense, because he’s bad at helping you do that.
2. Seattle hasn’t spent “so little” on its OL. Rob has already explained that we’ve put a TON of draft capital into the OL. We aren’t “stuck” with Fant, they CHOSE Fant. Because we have Cable’s guy, one of the “two strongest guys” (see my comment about loser coaches and the qualities they look for, above) he put his hands on all year, in Rees Odhiambo. A 3rd round pick!!! Who spent his college career playing LEFT TACKLE! And we didn’t play him. “Oh, he’s not ready.” And Fant IS?!? Cable wasn’t worried about Gilliam at LT, either, until it turned out he actually couldn’t play there.
3. The OL didn’t improve throughout the course of the year. Did you not see Tampa Bay? Green Bay? Arizona? They were TERRIBLE. They had one good game vs. Detroit, but that was mostly because they sort of stopped worrying about blocking the linebackers at the second level. So yeah, when we use two OL to block one DL and rely on Rawls to defeat the LB w/o any help, the OL can block a guy. Worked vs. Detroit because the LB are so bad. Not so with Atlanta.
4. Graham is not important to this team or its success. He is a luxury. When we did not have Jimmy Graham, we were great. Since we got him, we’ve been far from great. You can cite all the stats you want; somebody has to get the catches. He is an average blocker, sometimes an indifferent route-runner. Before he came to us, he was regarded by people that played against him as a giant wuss, and since we’ve got him, we are no longer “the bully.” Hmmm….. Instead we are a glass cannon. People are already talking about how we can afford him, yet are saying guys like Zeitler and Campbell are going to be pricey. You know when you don’t care about the pricetag? When you’ve got an extra 10 MILLION dollars in your wallet. Trade Graham and we can add both guys AND probably get a draft pick for Graham in the process. We won the SB with Miller getting 33 catches and receivers that were just alright. We went back with Luke Willson as our TE1. We don’t need Graham. Instead, we could have used that draft pick to get a guy we know they wanted, Mitch Morse. And they could have traded back and picked up the draft pick that would have allowed them to get another guy they tried to get, OT Daryl Williams. People say, “But where would be be without Graham?” Well, we’d possibly be a team that had Mitch Morse killing it at guard instead of relying on Odhiambo or Ifedi, or that could have a RT competition between Ifedi, Gilliam and Williams instead of just having Gilliam. And we’d be a lot better. There are probably five offensive line FA that would do more to help this team win than the “better” Jimmy Graham, and we will sign none of them because they “cost too much.” That’s a shame.
And it’s not just about Marshawn Lynch. W/Lynch but no Graham, our offense was #2 in DVOA. With both Lynch AND Graham, it actually fell to #15 in DVOA. And then Graham got hurt, and without him in the lineup it surged back to #4 in DVOA by the end of the year. He’s not the right guy for what Pete says he wants us to be.
5. If interior DL isn’t a priority so big you mention it, we are kidding ourselves. We had to pluck a guy from a camping trip to Seattle to be the third guy in our rotation this year! Rubin and Reed offer no pass rush at all. Reed wasn’t as good as advertised, Rubin looks like backup level, and we have literally nobody else. Need to add at least two guys at that spot.
But instead, we talking about adding linebacker depth and letting the OL grow with just added experience. Remember how good Britt was his second year? How about Gilliam? If that’s what we can expect from Ifedi, Fant, and Odhiambo, Russell’s going to need to lose some of that weight just to survive back there.
Frustrating season, frustrating way to end it isn’t it because there’s no reason it had to end there. Keep Gresham, and we’d have been the 2 seed. Trade for an effective LT or even just keep Alvin Bailey, and we’d have been fighting Dallas for the Top seed, with or without Gresham.
The improvements that would put us back in 2013 form look so obvious, Anyone can see them, but every year, it seems like we go into training camp with the same problems. Why not invest in solving the problem?
To your points, I don’t mind cable focusing on the run, but I’m tired of him conning the F.O. into letting him turn water into wine. If h could do this, we’d still be in the playoffs. It’s time to invest in the OL. Doesn’t mean go all out, def doesn’t mean looking for it in the draft again where they keep whiffing. It means get someone who’s good t anchor the left side, and use chips blocks on the right, roll outs, stop dropping back 5 and 7 steps very single time. Simple solutions a caveman could think of.
Choosing Fant to play LT, AND PINNING OUR SB HOPES ON IT, has been a real head scratcher. Doing it again even more so. Fant is Novak 2.0. I think he will become a good player but we’ve lost enough games because of him. Gilliam OTOH I think has improved and would be a decent RT if both sides didn’t need help.
I see Graham as unimportant to the success because they don’t know how to use him. Like PRich was all year until atl. If they knew how to use him, he’d be important. I don’t think he’d want to re sign, since Bevell seems to have tenure.
Reed has been alright but not a successful pick thus far. It’s hard to see where he fits into our system or needs, he’s undersized compare to Petes other DTs, can’t solve the pass rush issues, won’t see the field in nickle. Hoping he proves me wrong next year. Whiffing on Chris Jones the player for Ifedi the project hasn’t works out so far, to say the least.
There haven’t been that many good picks since mclaughlin left, and looking at the recent drafts, it’s very unlikely we ll see this kind of talent again.
Win Forever? Need to WIN NOW.
Navok was someone that they gave up on fairly quickly, and cut him mid season. They’ve stayed committed to Fant.
I don’t understand those that feel Reed didn’t have a solid rookie year. The run defense played well when he was on the field. He provided some rush despite the fact he never did that in college. 6-3 311 isn’t what I would call undersized, and I thought there were times he provided some pretty punishing tackling.
I thought Reed was ok, not bad but didn’t stand out either or live up to the hype. Don’t see where he fits in on Pete s D line, where the other DTs are 3/4 types and nickel rushers. Okay second round pick nothing more so far.
Reed played a lot of nose and some 3 tech. He can do both. I think that the next DT that comes along will probably determine where he ends up for the long haul. Say that they add Elijah Qualls day two, Qualls probably becomes the nose and Reed the 3 tech. Or, say Quinton Jefferson has a really strong offseason, and has built himself up to close to 300lbs for good muscle weight, maybe through training camp, he surprises and they decide they like him at 3 tech, Reed at nose. Personally, I think being versatile on the line benefits Reed and the team.
Id be surprised if Rubin isn’t starting. Remember the model? Big run stuffers at DT, tweener pass rushers on the edge, really hard to see where Reed fits in here. Perhaps getting a DE with speed and size both, but they don’t last to 26. But if the DEs stay small and the DTs get smaller, risky thing to do IMO.
With Novak I just meant in terms of where he is now. A guy who’s never played OL put into one of the 2 key positions, and not ready for the big time.
Alvin Bailey, really? Really?
Dam right.
Having even a mediocre LT, who’s stable against the pass, would make the entire line less chaotic.
L. O. L.
you are crackng me up coach frank
3. The line was opening holes for the run game and giving RW protection against GB. RW just had a remarkably awful day passing on a day when they probably should have stuck with the run, IMO.
4. I think that DVOA picked up because Thomas Rawls was on a tear with RW in the second half of last year. I’d like to see how that DVOA was after the team last Rawls for the season, and had to sub in Michael and company. I wouldn’t be shocked if that went down. IMO, if this team didn’t have a healthy Graham this year, I think it would have been an incredibly tough haul getting to the playoffs. I think he drew a ton of attention from defenders that opened up things for Baldwin and company.
5. I wouldn’t be so hard on Jarran Reed. He did pretty well as a rookie for what he was asked to do. He was billed as a stout run stopper, not Aaron Donald or Geno Atkins, and he even offered a bit of a rush on 3rd downs. It takes most DTs a few years in the league before they figure things out. Kinda why Carroll has always been so reliant on veterans. Quinton Jefferson is the guy that they were hoping would provide pass rush, and he’s coming back. They will probably add another body there. They are always looking.
I actually think Carroll was spot on about linebacker help. They got scary thin there for a hand full of games, a lot of the bigger runs they gave up were broken containment, runs that most likely wouldn’t have happened when Bruce Irvin was a fixture. IMO, I think there was some level of hubris going in with Mike Morgan and little else behind him. They also relied on nickel packages more when with Bruce, they could stay in base a bit more.
The decision not to pick up Irvin’s 5th year was the mistake it looked like when it happened.
He and Okung were the two players I was most hoping that they would find a way to keep, but Irving the most. I think the mistake, or rather misfortune, might have been not finding a talented young player through the draft to help fill that void. My hunch is that they might have hoped for Fackwell in the 3rd. Pete definitely made it clear today that linebacker is going to be a high priority.
Irvin would have been 7 mil against the cap, and extending him would have been so impractical, given what he ended up making, I really don’t understand the move, not to exercise his 5th year?
Yeah, I see that point now. It’s a gamble. When you’ve had a jackpot draft like 2012, you’re going to have to make some really tough decisions. When they chose not to pick up the 5th, RW and B Wag hadn’t reached their deals with the team yet. Then you are looking at a LT who’s going to be up, etc. Plus they were working on extending Cliff Avril. In hind sight, JS might have wished he picked up that option, but what if RW decided to bet against himself in 2015, and then went on that record run unsigned for 2016? People thought he was getting a ridiculous amount right before the season, but if he would have held off, JS probably would have been forced to fork out a heck of a lot more.
I don’t fault him for his decision. It’s a pretty tough job, and you have a million critics, many on message boards like this bashing any move you make that doesn’t work out to their ideal scenarios. But that’s why he gets the big bucks. The guy is probably looking at this draft not seeing very many quality OL at all, frankly, but all this ridiculous defensive talent, and also seeing how much more cap room other teams are going to have that are probably going to out bid what they can afford in FA for quality veteran starters, and he’s probably thinking to himself “yeah, the fans on these boards can suck it.” I would be.
Doesn’t matter what he says about fans on a board, it just matters what he does. Obviously we won’t factor into his decisions and they should be evaluated on their own merits. As in, going into a season with a SB level roster, we were knocked out of the 2 seed and then the playoffs by teams that we should have beaten, largely because of our OL and O, and to a lesser degree the defense, which doesn’t fly to.the ball like they used to, and have now 2- 3 prime years of a SB window that might be gone 2-3 more.
“Have now squandered 2-3 prime years of a SB window that might be gone in 2-3 more.”
Some perspective is required here.
Number of Super Bowl wins in last 10 years:
Tom Brady — 1
Aaron Rodgers — 1
Peyton Manning in Indy — 1
Drew Brees — 1
I know there’s a feeling that this Seahawks team should’ve automatically just compiled three titles by now — but that’s how hard it is to win in this league. Seattle were one play away from winning 2.
Looking back on 2016 now, can we say that this was a super bowl level roster?
What’s all this we need Irvin drama? A SLB, with some pass rush value was not worth the 5th year option. Frank Clark more than filled his spot as a pass rusher and Mike Morgan was solid as a rock, when healthy, in base packages. So solid, in fact that will likely be back as the starter at SLB. He can be had for probably around $2M a year (he made <$1M this year), where as Irvin is close to $10M. Marsh was not reliable enough in coverage to make the move to SLB, but played well as a situational pass rusher. KPL and Coyle were exposed in the running game, so Pete acknowledged the team needs a reliable backup at SLB. Morgan and Clark were the plan to replace Irvin, it worked great. The issue was depth, not starting SLB.
Okung was made of glass. Wasting big cap space on an unreliable player isn’t good.
Agreed. Need a guy who will be on the field when the season is in the balance.
I suggest otherwise.
The run defense has been just as good. Yes we don’t have difference maker at SAM, but he also only had 7 sacks this year, for a guy that is almost at $10M APY and Frank Clark took his pass rushing snaps. Now we get a tradeable 3rd round draft pick from him and we didn’t lose anything from a pass rush stand point.
I don’t see the mistake at all.
Irvin.much more.than a sack.artist hess a master in coverage with DB speed, seals the edge well and flies to.the ball, can go.3 downs because he can line up at DE and probably wouldve moved Clark inside on a lot of passing situations. Would have made 7m on 5th year which is a bargain.
An extra pick.in the bottom.of the third.is hit.or.miss.
Irvin was a special player, IMO.
Yes, very special package of skills and athleticism.
Agree.
Not sure why we discuss ‘glass cannons’ and team identity ad nauseum, but the points you make above are ridiculed as ‘video gam(ing)’.
Great post. Thanks.
Except V12 was wrong. The number one thing he values is smarts. He’s said as much in interviews including the inceptor to TEF
The rest is just basically wrong
Lol ‘chemistry problems’
We got the inside scoop from Frank
Did Pete really say the plan was to keep Ifedi at RG? If so we can rule out guys like Zietler in free agency.
I know Fant is not favourite on here but I for one think he has incredible upside. I cannot think of another player since I have started watching the NFL 30 years ago who never played a game of OL in his life then started at LT in is rookie season. If anyone else can please let me know.
He was not great admiredly but he survived and that itself is a miracle. He was a 265 lb basketball player this time 2 years ago this time and never even stepped on a football feild. Even going into the draft he thought he would be a TE.
He has an off season to bulk up, build core strength in an NFL program and learn how to play the game. I for one can’t wait to see what he looks like when he shows up at camp next year. If he puts in the work I think we could see a monumental jump next year.
In Fant in Trust! Perhaps foolishly so.
I too have high hopes for Fant, but we are crazy if we go into the year with him as an unquestioned starter. We really need to bring in a bridge guy for a year or 2 to let him develop.
I think that would be ideal too! That is why I was hoping for a trade for Staley. He had two years left on a cap friendly deal. He would be the ideal stop gap vet to learn the ropes from.
Agreed. Is Thomas available?
Staley would be nice for the right price. Whitworth would be ideal on a 1-2 year deal, but I doubt he wants to move to Seattle. Maybe if he wants to chase a ring and we make the right offer.
Staley is so cheap right right now cap wise it’s hard to imagine getting him for less than a R1. I think it would be worth it, round 1 picks are ovarrated, especially since we’re closer to a “R1-2”
Staley is 33 in August.
If George Fant is the LT answer in 2017, the wrong question is being asked.
I really thought a Staley trade should have happened mid-season before the trading deadline. He really could have helped stabilize at least two spots (LT and C). It would have helped Glowinski at LG and possibly given the Hawks and Russell at least one reliable side to step to and Rawls a spot to get that 3rd and 1. Bringing him over now will feel so too little too late.
This is the truth.
Hopefully, Pete doesn’t see Staly’s 8m or whatever as a lot of money.
People had the same faith in Gilliam last year too. Fant will probably have a Gilliam style leap. Is that good enough?
No because Gilliam didn’t pick it until the end of the year, and even then, he still isn’t good enough when there are 2 other players who need help. Was better vs atl but shook out of his boots a few times. Fant should be learning on the bench.
Coaches are willing to try anything without fear, this bad. Case in point Odi, before he stepped on Russell with the season hanging on the brinks, had never played RG once, not even in practice. Coaches need to ground themselves firmer into reality.
Ya. Gilliam was horrible. He couldn’t hold down left tackle, then got benched at right. Even when he came back he was nothing special. I meant we can’t have a liability like that again next year. Gilliam is not a guarantee at right tackle, so left tackle could be the same ordeal without competition. And not just bring in any old guy competition, but legit tackles.
If Fant and GG are the starting Ts next year, this team is dead in the water
If Fant didn’t have tremendous upside, I don’t think they would have been keeping him in as the starter at LT. I’m not as down on him as others. I want to see what a full offseason program bring out of him. I do think they probably add some competition there though.
He’s going to be a liability for at least another year, and that’s pretty optimistic. You cant coach someone up to NFL champion level play in one at any position, let alone LT. Probably will be the reason when we get knocked out of the playoffs next year before our time.
In one year
They are looking at him as a Jason Peters type of player. Not great year #1, but is a probowl/all-pro type in 2-3 years. Keep the faith on the young guy.
I think you are spot on with that, Charlie. I’ve sensed the Peters comp myself.
Don’t want to wait 2-3 to go back to SB when LOB are in their thirties.
Need to take this opportunity seriously, we won’t have this kind of talent forever.
Yeah, I’m not sure if they care at all what fans want. If they think he can make a big leap next year, I think they are going to stick to their guns on this. I’m pretty sure they are going to add some competition there, as well, but I think they are going to probably also give him every chance to stay the starting LT for 2017 through that competition.
I also think the coaches were forced to play him this year. They thought they had stop gap players in sowell and webb, and one spot solidified with Gilliam but none of that happened. Who’s to say they still don’t want someone as a stop gap to let fant develop.
I think you are spot on with that, but I think with Fant, they saw him picking things up at a much faster rate than perhaps they were expecting. I remember hearing some mention coming out of camp that the coaches felt he was further along as a rookie than Gilliam was as a rookie. Hearing this, I wasn’t shocked that they decided to go with him mid season.
You could substitute Gilliam for Fant in your post and post it a year in the past….we need to get our hands on a real tackle. With a track record somewhere of success!
But Gilliam wasn’t a success this year, he couldn’t handle LT, played poorly for maybe 3/4 of the season, still wasn’t quite there in the playoffs. Looks like at this rate he ll be ready in 2017 but 2016 Gilliam was a bet that lost.
I love King. Length, agility and ball skills. Great tackler too. He has experience in the slot and on the outside and is used to playing the right side which would make him a natural opposite Sherm. I’ll be interested to see his 40 time at the combine. I’ve been secretly hoping we could get him in the 3rd, but now I’m hoping for the 2nd, and wouldn’t be upset if it’s the 1st.
As mentioned above, Ahkello Witherspoon is another potential fit. I only watched Colorado a few times this year, but he was really good. Awuzie might be another one to keep an eye on over there at Colorado.
I think King and Witherspoon kinda scream Seahawk cornerbacks, honestly.
The rest of the NFL is on to these Seahawk cornerbacks, which is why they seem to get over drafted. I worry that if King does half-way decent at the combine he could be gone before the Seahawks pick. If he does, I hope they don’t reach, DeAndre Elliott is a physical freak of nature and if he’s learned the technique he could be a really special cover guy. He was on the roster the entire year and got quite a bit of playing time, he was also the second best punt cover guy (after Neiko Thorpe, who was sensational). We’ll have to see what these guys have as far as arm-length, but one thing I know is that DeAndre Elliott has the longest arms of any CB measured at the combine – ever. Witherspoon would be nice as a depth guy, but much like Elliott came out of nowhere, until we get the combine/pro-day results we won’t be able to form complete pictures of the CB pool.
If they think that this offensive line is something that needs to be kept together, they might as well rebuild now. Allowing your qb to be constantly harrasssd and hit is moronic. I hope he’s just blowing smoke. We need help at tackle and I’m not sure ifedi should be a guard. Too many mistakes and technique issues. I’ve been pushin for long for a long time. When I watch him come up and play the run, I see Sherman. When I see him use his wingspan to defend the pass, I see Sherman. He’s a younger version with more polish coming out of college. If he’s the guy at 26 I won’t be upset. I would definitely want to go for a tackle though, even if it means trading up. Fan Feeney at guard could also play some right tackle.
The O-line involved a rookie at LT and RG, a first year starter at LG, a first year center and a second year RT.
It’s quite possible they will grow together and become an effective unit. These things take time.
Normally I would agree that building a young line and keeping them together is wise… not with these guys. I think guard to guard is passable. This is the worst tackle tandem I have ever seen at the NFL level, and they are both lacking in power/run blocking ability. Both guys played other positions or sports and they just aren’t good enough. Gilliam is in year 3 and he was in and out of the lineup. At one point he lost his starting job to Fant, who is the worst left tackle in the league. We can’t waste this window and get Russell killed. This team isn’t getting younger.
They clearly rate Fant though — and to be fair he had virtually no NFL experience before this season. I suspect they will add competition at tackle one way or another.
You really don’t think he’d be better served learning this on the bench? It appears to me that we just wasted 2 seasons, needlessly.
LT’s who can block cost money, LTs who can’t do it as well like Sowell are cheaper, unless Cable has a magic way around this, probably going to lose more games that we could win.
He’d learn much faster playing than watching from the bench so he will not be better served on the bench.
Is the team better served with Fant on the bench is another question.
As a player that had zero football experience not to mention OL play, he had a very steep improvment curve so far, due to his low starting point. That is very apealing but does not guarenty that it continues at that rate or that it will end as high as we need it to be.
This is a question the coaching stuff has to answer. Will Fant keep improving at the current rate, how sure are they that he will become a solid plus LT in the end and how long should it take. On one hand – We have already invested in the worse period of his career and would love to reap the rewards. On the other hand, are we throughing good money after bad money in the hope he might make it?
You don’t learn anything on the bench.
Fant is incredibly athletic, but don’t let the smooth taste fool you – he is a powerful man who was a far better run blocker than pass blocker in his rookie campaign.
Sure you do you learn in practice. Especially when you have no college experience.
The best way to learn is on the field, not sitting on your backside. If they agreed with you on this, he wouldn’t have started.
If they agreed with me on this, we’d be playing GB at home next week.
They were wrong on Fant and it cost them the season. You can’t go into SB prime year with. High school LT, Rookie RG who never played in 3 point stance and was raw in his technique, and a RT whose still converting from TE and doesn’t get it yet. This is ” recipe for disaster”.
Coach Frank over here
LOL 🙂
IIRC, The Seahawks’ plan was to start Gilliam at LT, sort out RT with Webb/Sowell and further, they signed Fant as a UDFA.
I don’t think even the Seahawks agreed to start Fant. It was a decision forced on them.
Let’s not get all revisionist in here.
Nothing was forced on them.
They could’ve started Webb. Or Sowell. Or Rees Odhiambo.
They chose Fant.
Not a single one of these guys ready to start in 2016. They totally whiffed. Again.
Mid season came around and all indications are JT, and perhaps Staley on the trade block, for the right price and it doesn’t sound like they were asking for much. You don’t need to be “Coach Frank” to figure this one out it is a No Brainer.
Or you could just say F— it, let’s try to win with these guys….
Hue Jackson guaranteed they wouldn’t trade Joe Thomas.
Joe Staley is 33 in August.
Wasn’t happening.
Minnesota made the same guarantee before the Hardin trade.
And btw Donald Penn just made the pro bowl at 33.
Semantics.
They ‘chose’ to move Gilliam to LT and sign Sowell and Webb to add competition to the OL.
They ‘hoped’ Fant would sign on as a UDFA, then decided to protect/develop him on the 53 and use only in emergency, just like they did with Sokoli.
Easier to accept (Occam) that bad process, not talent or choice, caused Fant to start than to argue it was all part of PC/JS’s genius master plan. However, I agree that starting Fant was best for his development, but cost the team a season.
A few things…Gilliam only gave up 1 sack this year and he did lack physicality in the run game until the end of the after he won his job back, he picked it up. Fant has power/run blocking and is physical. Over at Field Gulls they have a series on the OL and they looked at Fant several times. He has the power and has showed it multiple times. His issues have been consistency with his technique. A full off season will do him good. He improved a lot over the year.
It’s not nearly as dire of a situation as you think it is. If neither of them just weren’t good enough, they wouldn’t even be on the team.
Or they just didn’t or couldn’t do any better
Fant isn’t a good run blocker. He can’t reach block to save his life and he gets he butt handed to him in pass blocking. He’s supposed to be a three year project, but starting at this point. Let him develop behind someone better so we can take advantage of this window. Rebuilds aren’t any fun. Gilliam? He went from awful to just a guy and people want to praise him for not being awful anymore. He’s soft. Right tackle is tradtionally the more physical guy with less athleticism. I would have even preferred he stay at left tackle over Fant.
Yep, Fant is not a starter, let alone SB starter. Good potential let’s not force the issue again with everything on the line.
I think Gilliam is a decent starter if there’s talent around him, and he has TE help.
I agree w/you drew. Guard to guard ok let’s let it age and rapport build but we need some real NFL tackles.
Here here. Show me any other team that rebuilds nearly their whole starting line and a HOF RB, and the results would be similar in Year 1
Signing a veteran would be nice… but who? It would probably be a bandaid or they’ll try to go cheap again like Webb. Whittworth? Zeitler? Expensive pieces.
Trade for Staley or Thomas, both are on great deals with the expanded cap. They were entertaining deals for JT and took him off the table, rumored were only asking for a R2 and couldn’t get it.
Cleveland did everything they could stockpile picks, and still have Joe Thomas. They clearly aren’t trading him.
The rumor dealt circulated was they were seeking a second round pick. They were actively discussing trades for JT with other teams.
Widely circulated
Carroll gave a pretty strong indication that they aren’t going to throw a bunch of $ at one guy and expect him to fix all the problems. Sounds like whoever they try to bring in, it won’t be an expensive player.
That could mean they are looking at TWO guys. I wouldn’t be surprised if they brought in a new T and G, Ifedi and Glowinski then would compete for the remaining G spot.
I know it’s way to early to speculate, and Pete said Ifedi’s staying at RG – but, things change based on who’s available and who they bring in. One possibility: LT – Fant, LG – Ifedi/Glow, C – Britt, RG – Warmack, RT – Vollmer/Mills
Mills and Warmack had down years, Warmack of course a high pick that has not lived up to expectations – might be able to sign both and pair them to form a strong right side to run behind. Mills has had very good years in the past, but his pass blocking has been uneven – maybe this offense would suit him better. Vollmer would be a dream come true at RT, but might be a bit too expensive for a RT. I don’t think moving Fant makes any sense at all as he continues to learn to play OL, besides the LT market is going to be insanely expensive – so I would focus on the Right side.
Ohhhh… Okay I like that @HiHawk! Give Chance Warmack another shot at this thing. He was a big favorite going into his draft who hasn’t reached expectations. I’d be down with him.
Rob assuming we go O-line, D-line or LB in rounds 1-2 if Desmond king is there with one of our picks in the 3rd round would you like to see us take him? If he is there with our first 3rd round pick and we grabbed him I wouldnt mind us getting a RB with our other third round pick.
I’ve never been a huge Desmond King fan. Reminds me a bit of Josh Wilson.
6’2, 200 lbs reminds you of 5’10, 185 lbs? Wilson was a feisty, undersized nickel CB, King is a physical specimen straight out of the Pete Carroll CB factory. Maybe you mean their style of play, but I don’t see that comparison at all – since if Josh Wilson had even been 6’0 he would have had a career at least the equal of Marcus Trufant. He was a very good player throughout his long career, despite his lack of size. If King has anywhere near the career Josh Wilson had, he’d be an absolute steal in the 3rd round.
Lol you must be high. He had some objectively bad years with us then some pk years in Washington
27 sacks in the first 8 games
15 sacks in the last 8 games
and despite Michael Bennett’s protests, not enough steady pressure against Atlanta.
Hope they have a plan for someone at DT that can cause some havoc in the backfield.
I just did not see a smothering, swarming, intimidating pass rush this year, even though they were in the top 4 in sacks. Did not seem like it, but they seemed to get a bunch of sacks against bad teams and few against good ones.
i kinda understand about keeping the o line together, and hoping for a big improvement next year. Could happen. But I doubt they make a splash that impresses the fans or critics from the sounds of it. Cross your fingers guys.
But if they go 2 DBs, LB and OT with the first 4 picks, I think it will be at least a partial solution.
And of course, who knows what will happen in FA. Does not sound like they will go for a big time FA, but I can see them trying to find some deals in the second wave after the big money deals are done (like Bennett and Avril in 2013)
Sacks are a product of DL pass rush getting to the QB faster combined with secondary play forcing the QB to hold on the ball longer. The sacks in the last 8 games have as much to do with Earl’s (and Sherman’s) injuries as with pass rush quality.
You heard it from the horse’s mouth (Carroll) – We need help at DB and we are OK on the DL.
Yep we need a penetrating DT – this position should take precedence over LB depth
DB, DT, o-line, then LB….I’d love a 1st RD DB in that sudden change of direction with speed 5’10 or11″ mold that could take lanes spot in the slot but also be good enough to either takeover for Thomas if injury occurs or retirement. We saw how bad Tyrell was against a good offense….the 1st rd pick would be well spent because your getting a starting nickel package player that is (hypothetically) better than current (Lane) and if something happened to ET (Nooooo!) at least we wouldn’t have such a drop off at arguably the most important position in Petes scheme – Free safety. Very 1st draft of his regime earl thomas in 1st rd – that is the position in the secondary PETE will spend a 1st rounder on !
Another thing I was thinking about is what if we go after a RB in free agency? We could bring back turbin, we could go after somebody like Darren Mcfadden, knile davis, Andre Ellington. Or we could go after the big money guys, Leveon Bell, Latavius Murray I would love to see a Veteran RB in Seattle especially considering how young our core group of RB’s are right now. There are a couple of ufa RB’s that on the older side but might be worth the risk if the price is right: those being Lagarrete Blount Deangelo Williams. Anybody have some thoughts on us going after a RB in Free agency instead of the draft?
I hate how much I love watching Leveon Bell play. But we aren’t getting him, or another RB, in FA. Hasn’t been the team’s M.O., but I wouldn’t be surprised if we draft one. I’m still hopeful for Alex Collins, but I think another guy who could be a 3rd down back would be helpful until Prosise proves he can stay healthy.
Side note – I love what Marcel Reese could bring to the table in a full season here. I hope they try to bring him back.
I like Reese as a fullback who can play 3rd down also
versatility helps when your backs are injury prone
Ifedi, Prosise, Vannett and QJeff all injured as rookies, 4 of the top 6 picks
let’s hope they can be healthy and productive next year,
I have a bias for young RB unless it’s an elite level talent.
I really want King in the first. Physically almost a sherm clone, although could be more athletic (although not the fastest guy, just like sherm). Covers our biggest need, a corner to start opposite Sherm. Tall, long, agile, fast, and he is a very good tackler. I watched every washington game this year and I would go as far to say I dont remember him ever missing a tackle, he is solid in run support (better than jones). He will give up some underneath stuff but always wraps up. Doesnt really get beaten deep.
I also love the personality he would bring to the locker room. Optimist. Passionate but amiable, not a primadonna in any way.
I don’t think he is as chippy as sherm. This may be a good thing. As i said earlier he isn’t the fastest and he needs to put on muscle. But he is a tremendous football player. He didn’t have a ton of interceptions but his ball skills are good. He is a great player and I would totally spend a late first round pick on him.
I think we need to find one starter this draft. Everyone else is going to be a backup (redshirt rookie so to speak) waiting for their chance to start in a few seasons, once the core. starts leaving. I fully believe King can be that one starter.
Horrible end to the season, but this will be a fun draft.
Biggest need is debatable for a team that has consistently found solutions at CB and has other issues (OT, interior pass rush). It’s a need — especially in light of Shead’s injury — and the strength of the draft is weighted towards DB (and always has been). But this is as much a review of the dealt cards as what is the greatest need. I’m sure if this was a loaded offensive tackle class we’d be having a different conversation.
Agreed. Also if you examine recent drafts, Seattle does often dip into the deeper position groups and even double dips into them. Could easily see us going S/CB with the quality in this class.
Another great write-up. So much meaty content, impressive. Man shall not live by bread alone.
If Bolles is off the board, likely, would you go with one of these below or Demarcus Walker?
( I know he could also be off the board, but I have seen several mocks show him available to us in the first)
“OT — Garett Bolles (Utah), Ryan Ramczyck (Wisconsin)
LB — Zach Cunningham (Vanderbilt), Haason Reddick (Temple)
DB — Adoree’ Jackson (USC), Kevin King (Washington)”
It’s hard to say. I could list about 10 guys I wouldn’t mind the Seahawks getting. Budda Baker would be on the list, several EDGE rushers, couple of other corners. Walker I would certainly consider if he tests well at the combine.
I read that budda ran 4.35 at the last testing. That’s legit. Imagine a two deep package with him and earl
Budda is a legit player. Love him best playing up — swarming to the ball. Great instinct, closing speed, range, hitting ability. Tyrann type.
I think a Tyrann type would help a lot, nickel, safety with SPEED.
neither Shed nor Sherman are very fast (compared to us, yes, but not to a lot of receivers)
I think they need at least one very fast corner
of course they also need playing speed
Terrel is about as fast as Earl, but plays much slower
Sherman plays faster than his speed because he can diagnose things faster
Hahah I’m pretty sure the likes of reed and Rubin are faster than me…
Budda to me seems like a great fit. Good playmaker with speed. Tyrann comp seems like a legit one. Gives the hawks a quality hedge at FS, while having complementary value when both are healthy.
If Baker is there at #26 he might be the guy I want more than anyone. Seems like he would be an amazing playmaker for this defense. We saw how our defense faded after Earl got hurt. He’s probably the most irreplaceable player on the roster that isn’t the starting QB. BB would be a great starter first and foremost, but also a solid backup for the second hardest to replace player on the team.
Totally agree- basically said the same thing earlier (sans bakers name) in the thread because I haven’t read down this far….hah
Good read Rob. The amount of CBs available would in all likelihood exclude them from picking one in the 1st Rd. Pauline has a second day grade for King, like many other evaluators.
I’m glad you are considering Cunningham as a potential 1st Rd pick. If he were available @ 22-24, would you trade up for him?
Tony actually reported King is viewed as a potential top-45 pick and stated he wouldn’t be surprised if he landed in R1. I would agree with that sentiment.
I’m not sure about trading up.
Thanks. As you can see, I’m all in on C-Ham. His length and football IQ is tremendous to watch. I can just envision him @ Sam with Raul Douglas playing RCB blitzing from the edge as C-Ham dropping in coverage with Earl over the top. This could lethal combination to add to the starting lineup. What do you think of Raul Douglas? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTakhfbmj-I
Sorry, wrong one. It’s good to compare though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8noA7xQJ0E
Rasul Douglas, not Raul.
Rob, looking at the last FA tackles that they signed were both long, what do you think of Andreas Kappe as a late pick for Cable to develop? He’s 6-8 319 plays RT. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9c9IBpLAw
I like this guy from Denmark! He’s raw with some good potential. He’s worth a late Rd draft pick. With Cable’s hands on him, he could become a starting RT.
Knappe, Guess I have to work on my Danish as well.
More history about him. Similar to Bolles, he’ll be 26 when turning Pro. The 6th-7th Rd is where he might go: http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/kentucky-football-snell-named-freshman-all-american-011617
Las year the Hawks traded down with Denver and came up with another 3rd round pick. I would love to see that happen again.
The Browns could be a good one for that.
Listening to Pete’s take on injuries hampering season, i think the handling of Russ’s injury effected the season most than the injury it self. Letting Russ play rather than a healthy Boykin caused offense to sputter, inconsistent, causing injuries to other players including defense(due to extra snaps, wear and tear, stress etc) as a whole it derailed the whole season. Impacted russell’s confidence, timing and ability ultimately down the road.
they should have sat Russ for 2-3 weeks at a minimum instead and tried to finish the season stronger… an elite QB should be able to cover the deficiencies of defense and run game ala Rodgers, Ben, Ryan (this season)..
This team has fallen short 4 of the last 5 years in playoffs due to inconsistent pass rush. There is no reason to believe this is going to change with an aging group of pass rushers. No amount of linebackers or dbs are going to change that reality. Seattle’s conservative zone based scheme is a liability against great qbs.
Kris Richard has also been downgrade and that’s an understatement. How many controversies & blown coverages in the last two years? They should make Richard assistant head coach & get a real DC. Atlanta defense now looks like the 2013 hawks defense; swarming & aggressive. Hawks defense looks old & slow.
I’m ok with keeping the oline & adding incremental pieces. I’m hoping continuity will help them. But they need to improve pass pro, open up the offense more & see what Russell can do. Running is good & all but against good QBs, we are going to need shootouts. The defense is not going to keep the games close, especially in playoffs. Imagine how the Steelers vaunted defense went from top 5 to bottom 5 in a couple is years as they started aging.
To summarize, 2013 Seahawks were well built to beat Niners & Panthers. 2017 Seahawks need to be built to beat the Pack & Falcons. One size fits all not.
You can never have enough pass rushers and there certainly some we can consider early, but the fact of the matter is Frank Clark has arrived, Avril and Bennett are still the best duo in the league
Weren’t we on track to be the #1 ranked defense until Earl went out? The blown coverages and inability to get off the field on 3rd and longs was frustrating, for sure. Things need to get cleaned up a bit, but I don’t think switching defensive coordinators is the way to do it. This is the head coaches defense, after all. But a guy like Calais Campbell could get us back to 2013 levels.
Line-hawk. Totally agree with you about adding pass rushers. It seems like every year John Elway take a defensive lineman in the 1st round. Last year the exception because they needed a Quarterback.
If he sack numbers for the Hawks a terribly misleading. You don’t see constant pressure with this front. You see the occasional sack sandwiched around lots of failure to pressure. The interior rush would help to solve this and make the edge guys more effective. This feels like a free agency move.
This is a great point. I would happily overpay for Calais Campbellto make this happen.
I’ll day it til the cows come home. I love Campbell but there is no way in hell the Seahawks will pay him more than Bennett.. $10 mill a year is max.
Yeah, I don’t really see that either. The only way I see them landing that big fish is if he decides to come in for Bennett money to a chance at a title. Other teams are going to have more cap room. Good lord, the Panthers have enough cap room where they can franchise Short and sign Campbell to try to get back up on top.
Agreed Greg Haugsven. The Hawks just made peace with Bennett why bring in a FA and pay him more on the Dline who hasn’t put in time here..we need FA $$ on the Oline and youth on the Dline.
I’m a believer that young people in any profession need mentors to fast track learning and becoming successful. A young Edge guy, linebacker, DB, or Dline man can come in to the Seahawks and learn at the feet of the masters and develop.
Yep Greg
I can’t even begin to express how disappointed I am in the lack of Kevin King cut-ups at draftbreakdwon.com.
Did anyone else think of our o line struggles while watching the former #1 overall pick(now also hansomely compensated) fail to block the 37 year old James Harrison?
I did, and I thought, if that was Fant there’s no way he couldn’t recovered to hold Harrison, sure sack.
Perfectly ok with them not overhauling the O line. We gotta make those growing pains worth it. If all 5 are back next year in the same spots, I’d count it as a positive.
I totally agree. I can realistically see the need to add bodies, backups, and competition, though the Oline competition has never made sense in Cable’s tenure. I have an actual factual hard time believing Rees Odhiambo is a talent drop off from Fant? But the season proved that was the case.
Point is I to would like to see the same bodies in the same spot. Or if they do replace someone, let’s not do the whole, “you go to RT, and now you go to RG,” thing where instead of a replacement you are now coaching up two spots or more for one.
Watched every Washington game this year. King is very good. Sydney Jones is even better.
“Compete forever” does not mean win a Super Bowl every year. I think it means always thinking 3 to 4 years ahead, and accepting a down year for growing pains.
I think the strategy is to identify 1 or 2 areas where they can get great value compared to the rest of the league, thereby allowing them to put more resources into other areas where they can dominate.
If they can have an average O Line at $7 million, they have an extra $10-15 million to spend elsewhere compared to everyone else. If that o line develops and becomes above average, they keep them and find another area to save.
All the top teams are paying their QB $20 M or more, even Brady never really took the big discount people think. They don’t have the advantage of a rookie scale qb anymore, and won’t for a long time.
I think you will see them identify another area or two in the next 2 years where they employ a similar strategy, try to find a bunch of young, good, cheap players (probably Db or DL) to replace older guys and keep the advantage going.
Don’t think John or Pete will panic like the fans do,
just my take on it
I agree with that in principle but so far when they have drafted and developed OL they are not good enough when it comes time for a 2nd contract to be retained and considered a core piece. As a result you are in constant rebuild and if they do grow together then by they time they are a functioning unit they will be FAs and how do you keep them all.
That is why I think a combination of youth and experience works best with most OLs.
Addressing needs isn’t panicking.
Only One ring so far when there should be 3 or 4. They’ve been staying calm in the face of serious roster problems, ones that should be easy to address, and not addressing them. This is not the way to win forever they need to address the problems while they still can. Major drop off in the draft classes since McLaughlin left.
Frank, 3 or 4 in a span of 6 years just isn’t realistic in today’s league. I also, as a fan, start each season believing they have a legit shot at th SB, but at least one playoff win five years running is incredible in itself. The Hawks are doing it right.
2012 a 30 second Matt Ryan comeback from NFCCG. No problem with that loss, it happens. But next playoff losses:
2014 Bevell tries to be cute.
2015 lose by a possession to panthers on road
Why on the road against Panthers?
-Novak started 8 games
-bevel still o.c.
Same reasons we shouldn’t have been on the road this year.
We should have 2 for sure and at s minimum be back in the NFCCG this year, and it’s easy to pinpoint why we’re not. This is s uniquely talented green and should have 3-4 rings now. But we’ll never know what would’ve happened in the NFCCGs we should’ve been to, because they went into these seasons with uncorrected problems.
And now reading Pete’s comments, out appears we will make the same mistake three seasons in a row.
This roster was built with three drafts. The ensuing drafts have been markedly different.
Or they are doing enough to to get that far and no farther. If everyone is good with stopping there, then it is fantastic. Depends on what your goals and expectations are. Would the Pats call it good stopping there?
Participated in a simulation, ended up with:
1) Tankersley
2) Reddick
3) Mixon
3) Leggett
That would be a solid group.
Tried my first Fanspeak Mock of the year. Tried it under the assumption that in FA they target Calias Campbell to address the interior pass rush.
26: R1P26
OT GARETT BOLLES UTAH
58: R2P26
CB KEVIN KING WASHINGTON
90: R3P26
LB HAASON REDDICK TEMPLE
105: R3P41
RB SAMAJE PERINE OKLAHOMA
184: R5P39
WR TAYWAN TAYLOR WESTERN KENTUCKY
211: R6P26
K ZANE GONZALEZ ARIZONA ST.
229: R7P8
S AHMAD THOMAS OKLAHOMA
Looks great. Those things are a little unrealistic but I would take that.
I would say the same, not sure if these guys will be there. Also, wouldn’t consider Zane until the last round at earliest. UDFA more likely if he is still there.
But I have to say that would be a dream draft. I have been cooking something similar myself, but trying to fit Samaje @ RB in there as well.
Love those first five picks!
What’s any es thoughts on Okung coming back. Brings continuity, he’s still relatively young, shouldn’t be too expensive. Just a thought I haven’t heard anyone mention it. Also not sure if that bridge is burned or not.
Gong.
WR-Taywan Taylor, 6-1/195, W. Kenucky – will likely end up around the Rd-2/3 area. He’s been moving up slowly. However, IMO he would be a really decent pick in Rd-3 for the Seahawks (as a replacement for Kearse). This is based on his 3 years of very consistent production and his Spring ’16 workout #’s – 4.33/40, 11-5-BJ, 39.5-Vert. Once he confirms those #’s at the combine, he’ll move up even more. His 40 time may not be quite as good, but anywhere in the low/mid 4.4’s may be expected, his BJ & Vert #’s should only improve with pre-combine training. After the combine his draft position may go up even more, ’cause he’s an exceptional prospect in many ways. His 3-years of production:
2016: 14-games, 98 rec. for 1730, 17.65 avg, 17-TD’s
2015: 14-games, 86 rec. for 1467, 17.06/avg, 17-TD’s
2014: 13-games, 45 rec. for 767, 17.04/avg, 7-TD’s
Thanks for all the details. Appears he sure has the production and speed as well
Rob, do you think seattle have become too much of a finesse team? More so on offense, we haven’t imposed our will on any team.I look back at the ratings of defenses the last games of the season and thought we should be better. Even the defense has been struggling to get turnovers, sacks ( I think the number we have for the season is deceiving ) most came in a few games. Not to mention too much time on the field. I think the 3 and outs stats came in only a few games as well.
I think they need to get back to a better run/pass balance for sure.
The Seahawks don’t have anything close to 40m in cap space for free agents. There aren’t 53 players on the 2017 roster, so these cap estimates are just wrong.
So what do you say is the correct number?
I’d say between $20-$25 depending on what the cap is.
I’ve done all the math and added up he contracts along with getting to 51/53 via minimum contracts and reserved the usual IR $. It’s about 27m to spend in FA.
Hsu said 2020+ After extensions for Bennett, kam, Britt, Graham. Said before Bennett contract.
What extensions does your 27 include already signed?
Just Bennett, but I believe the other extensions outside of Britt will be cap neutral because the 2017 cap is generally high already.
No — but they equally aren’t spending $30m to get up to 53. They have more than enough to make a couple of nice additions.
Rob-a tasty piece hĂŞre-as always.
-Count me in on the *keep the band together* chorus as far as the O-line goes. Sure, apply all due diligence in bringing in competition (via f/a and what falls to us in the draft) to turn up the heat on the tackle spots-neither incumbent should be able to take the job for granted and hopefully knowing that they have to be looking over their shoulder will spur them to cĂ´nsolidate gains accrued through ĂŞxperience. If not-a new face may take their place? At any rate-a bottom line 80 percent continuity factor sounds to me like a gĂ´d thing.
-First, Earl had us worried. Now, bad news about Shead, in addition to the revelation about Sherm. Id purely love it ì King fell to us. throw in Luani, and a couple of the perennial UDFA gems for the back end and voila! PCs DB factory à up and running!
-Keep JG (for me, this goes without saying-but never mind-I said it anyway).
-Add another RB. But what sort? Big body type useful for short yardage/goal line duties? Love the idea of Reese being retained.
Just á an aside-to all the gridiron lawyers out thêre, Ive seen precedent cited for the Hawks drawing a fine for nỏt disclosing the Sherman injury situation-but could they actually penalize us a pick in the draft? I sort of súpect they could ì they wanted, but would they go that far?
As always Rob, thanks so much for being our voice of reason in the emotionally charged wilderness of a season ended just a few weeks tô soon. And another early cỏngats to you and the misses as your blessed event approaches.
Thanks 🙂
Digging deeper into this DB class and stumbled upon another guy with ‘Seahawky’ measureables – Rasul Douglas from WVU. He’s listed at 6’2 203 (That’s Brandon Browner body).
Here’s a highlight video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8noA7xQJ0E
He has one video on DB that’s not very revealing: http://draftbreakdown.com/video/rasul-douglas-vs-oklahoma-2016/
CBS has him as a 2nd-3rd round guy
You don’t see Tredavious White in the first round discussion, Rob?
I think it’s possible — but need to see his measurables. He’s a very good corner.
Love him. Most of all LOB demeanour. Given the move by teams to smaller, quicker receivers, I’d love them to focus on other positions in the higher round and take a shot at a guy like White later. For me, he is a proper CB.
I’ve mentioned him before but the DB I’m watching this draft is Josh Johnson out of Boston College.
On DBD he’s listed as a 6’0 202 safety but he played safety and CB in college and high school. Based on highlights, one DBD tape against VaTech, and a tape of CLemson vs. BC it’s clear to me he has the length Seattle looks for in Corners, is an absolutely willing tackler in run support, can lay the occasion hammer, and has that great CB mentality to have his head turned on the ball to allow him to pick it off, use his length for a pass defense, or keep the play in front of him.
I don’t see him as a safety but rather a long, strong, Seattle style corner in the 4-5th round their sweet spot.
I’m mostly searching for 4-5th round players because Seattle yet has drafted a DB earlier then the 4th not named Earl. Although they could easily this year, I think you need to still look at their MO until otherwise..
A Modest Proposal: Hire Gus Bradley as Defensive Coordinator. He was so brilliant for the Hawks in that job that he was hired away as a Head Coach for Jacksonville. Coach salaries don’t come under the cap, so no issue there. The whole defense needs a shakeup and he’said the guy to do it. He is available and may otherwise go to SF or the Charges. Get out the checkbook and jump on this now!
Seconded.
NO thanks!
Why? His safeties and corners had nothing good to say about his defensive schemes on his way out the door–quite the opposite, actually. Both safeties sounded very bitter–Gipson pretty much said he was stuck doing 2-deep cover-2 stuff, not allowed to come into the box, just staying in his zone area unable to make plays all year. Jalen Ramsey said pretty much the same.
Same thing happened here from time to time, with Browner and Sherm pissed Bradley didnt call enough Man coverage, or let them use their hands, and it cost us a couple games–namely, the Miami game and the Atlanta playoff game back in 2012.
Dan Quinn is the one who simplified the defense, got rid of Prevent, and let the players play to their strengths.
I personally dont want Bradley and his Cover 2 crap at all.
I would trade Pete Carrol and Kris Richard for Dan Quinn as Head Coach at this point though…
I thought Richard took a step back this year rather than a step forward, and that he was the cause of a lot of the issues on D. But Sherms knee injury likely had more to do with the gameplan and playcalling than anyone outside realized…
One might infer that Richard Sherman’s vocal chords had more to do with the gameplan and play calling than anyone outside realized…
You don’the seem to disagree that the entire defensive unit needs a good shakeup. Watching them rage at each other on the sidelines during games, my guess is that Gus Bradley would command and require a greater level of respect then currently obtains. And, check the rankings of the defensive unit his last two years with the ‘Hawks.
Gus Bradley is not that “demand more respect” type of coach, I think he’s much more a player friendly coach similar to Carroll. Watching Kris Richard press conferences, that guy is dynamic, let’s not forget that he was a HC candidate this year while Gus Bradley is looking for a OC job. I think it comes down to losing ET (obviously) and moreso the large turnover we’ve had at CB over the last four years. We talk about it on the O-Line side, you don’t think communication and consistency is just as important for the secondary?
How much is passrush vs. secondary not covering. Almost feel as though Pete feels the same way as Bennett and thinks that if the secondary can hold for 2-3 seconds longer then the passrush would be there. I still think we need one more passrusher, either interior or an edge. I think that we can move Bennett and Clark as the interior pass rushers with Avril and another good edge and we will be ok. 2 pieces in secondary and one in the d line and I’d be happy.
I also wish we had another hybrid safety/linebacker. I know Wags and Wright are good in coverage but it seems like sometimes we need to go dime and we can’t because we have to play both. If we had a hybrid to take some of the load off one or the other I think it could help with some of the issues on 3rd down. They are both elite linebackers but having another good coverage guy with Kam in the box replacing one of Wags or Wright may be good for 3rd down and obvious passing situations.
I think this is a very fair point to raise up. Against Atlanta, I saw a lot of pressure on Ryan but he was still getting the ball out at a ridiculous amount of quickness and somehow still hitting his receivers. I think that is definitely a coverage issue. I think there was a solid reason Bennett blew a gasket after the game. What more could they have done on some of those plays?
This is just my hot take; We know Bennett and Clark can inside rush. Carroll said in his press conference today that they were counting on Quinton Jefferson this year to make an impact. There is a reason they moved up for him in the draft. JS said that there wasn’t another player left on their board who could provide his type of inside rush. So, I think it’s safe to say that they have plans for him being involved next 2017. They also brought in Garrison Smith off wavers from the 49ers, and if you can remember at the top of the season, he was flashing some before he ended up on IR. It’s very possible that they like Jefferson and Smith to factor next year. It’s also possible that they see some ability and room to grow from Jarran Reed. As a shot to many, inside rush might not be a huge concern for them. Coverage and LB play are. I think they might be missing the impact Bruce Irving and Malcom Smith had on this defense a few years ago.
Who is this Bruce irving you speak of?
Im pretty sure he means Bruce Irvin.
We took him in the first round and he played here a few years.
I think he plays in Oakland now.
Seahawks fans know him…
Here are my pair of pennies on the state of our roster going forward, noting we have $37M in cap space per Rob:
First up, see to our own-
1. We have an excellent playmaker in Graham; we should even be able to extend him without impacting our cap space for next year, right? If we want Wilson to grow he will need to keep having potent passing weapons, and learn how to use them effectively.
2. We need to extend Britt. I would be surprised we couldn’t secure him for no more than $7M/year, leaving us with $30M in cap.
3. We extend Kam. He is a leader on this defense. While obviously not as irreplaceable as ET3, still would be a major loss. Should be able to extend without impacting this years cap, as he already is a $8M cap hit this year (renew at $7-8 per year?).
4. Lock up the very useful non-stars: Reece, Tony McDaniel, Shead (if injury is recoverable), McCray, Thorpe, Brandon Williams (would 10M be a good estimate to cover them all?)
That leaves us with about $20M for FA.
Looking at our UFA class, I don’t see any of them going on the market and being worth comp picks. That means, for 2018 we likely won’t be getting any comp picks, so this year is a perfect year to go big in FA without worrying that we’d be sacrificing draft picks.
If PC would consider moving Ifedi to RT, then I think Zeitler would be a great FA pickup. Expensive, true, but very talented RG, ensuring a strong front in Britt and Zeitler to reduce the pressure on Ifedi and Glowinski.
I would have to look further to determine a second strong FA addition; a pocket-collapsing DE/DT would be amazing, and Calais Campbell would fit this but would likely be out of our budget if we get Zeitler.
For draft:
I think the whole draft really depends on who is there at 26. If Bolles falls down near 26, I would be shocked if we didn’t grab him, even if we grabbed Zeitler. That would give us a likely line of Bolles (with Fant likely as backup), Glowinski (with Odhiambo competing), Britt (Hunt as backup), Zietler, and Ifedi. A definite improvement with likely 3/5 starters returning.
If Bolles is not available at 26 however, I would bet we turn to defense for our first three picks, and I completely agree with Rob about the positions of those picks (DB, LB, S), though I could also see swapping one of the DB/S picks for a strong DT (or using all 4 of those picks on defense).
With how poorly Terrell played, and Shead going down for who knows how long, we need a really good FS/CB; someone who combines instinct with physical talent like ET3, and I honestly think that no matter what that needs to happen in the first two rounds.
Love your point about Comp Picks this year, I was starting to think about this as well but hadn’t put it together that we won’t have the downside of signing big FA’s because we won’t necessarily have comp picks to lose. Our more reserved moves on FA in the past have likely been a result of trying to save comp picks and cap space, could be seeing some bigger moves this year in terms of FA signing. Seems like the more successful teams are able to utilize that blend as opposed to just drafting or just big FA spending.
Rob, have you listened to any of Mel Kiper and Todd McShay’s podcasts? I think it’s called “First Draft.” Anyways, the last one that was recorded before the National Championship was really revealing; Kiper and McShay both have inside scoops, so it’s really interesting to hear what they say they hear from other scouts/execs, especially this early in the predraft process. They even have a long segment on Njoku and Solomon Thomas (though I’ll give you credit for noticing them sooner :)).
Does someone have a list of dates for this offseason? The draft is set for Philly 4/27, but there are dates for various kinds of free agent signings and so on.
26: R1P26
CB KEVIN KING
WASHINGTON
58: R2P26
LB HAASON REDDICK
TEMPLE
90: R3P26
S SHALOM LUANI
WASH ST
105: R3P41
OT ADAM BISNOWATY
PITT
184: R5P39
RB ALVIN KAMARA
TENNESSEE
211: R6P26
DL STEVIE TU’IKOLOVATU
USC
229: R7P8
EDGE JOE MATHIS
WASHINGTON
Kevin King, Haasan Reddick, Luani, and Bisnowaty all within the first 2 days would be quite the haul for Seattle, IMO. Seems like a lot of us have talked all year long that King looks the part of a Seahawks cornerback, and outsiders have noted it. Last year, it was mentioned how much Ifedi looks the part of a Seahawks OL. It just makes so much sense to think King as a potential first pick.
In terms of pass rush, IMO, Seattle had rush on Matt Ryan on Saturday. Matt Ryan was getting the ball off at a ridiculously fast rate as he, was a number of times, getting hit, and yet still getting completions. This is a coverage matter, IMO, and if I were Bennett fielding those questions minutes after the game, I’d probably come pretty close to blowing my lid as well.
I’ve missed Bruce Irving’s presence on the field in Seattle all year. The Dude set an edge, rushed, covered and was a flat out playmaker. Reddick looks like he could become that kinda guy. I’ve thought all year that if we lost KJ or Bobby for a stretch, we’d be #$%ed, LB was a dangerously thin area. I know it’s mentioned about how little they used SAM. I kinda think that’s because might have felt more comfortable using nickel more often. I seem to recall when this defense was at it’s best, Seattle had the ability to stay in base when most teams would switch to nickel because the quality and depth at LB. It would be nice to get back to that. I think that would bring more physicality as well.
Luani makes sense, and Bisnowaty is a guy we’ve felt would probably have a lot of appeal to Tom Cable. Like Odhiambo, he could play tackle or guard.
They could still find some value later on at RB and DT. We all want to see a premier 3 tech, but I’d take a stout, strong as #$% 1 tech any day. Watching a fair amount of USC this year, I noticed #96 Steve Tu’ikolovatu looking especially brutish on their DL and he was kinda wrecking up the Husky OL at Husky Stadium (Go Dawgs!). I’d take that dude on this D as a late round value pick. I think the DL missed the low bodied power of Brandon Mebane more than another quick twitch type.
Who knows, maybe Mathis’ injury makes him slide in this draft, and Seattle finds gold late in R7. Carroll said today that they would love to get a couple backers who could come in and push Bobby and KJ. They wan that kind of depth.
Anyhow, I was actually please to hear Carroll say that the focus will be DB and LBs with this draft, and that they will be looking to add more OL. It seems pretty reasonable. I thought he also said that they will see what the draft bring in terms of RB and receiver.
I love this draft. Simple. Straight to the point. And all players that with the considerations of moving up (King) could be had by Seattle.
Love Kamara. Could really add some CJ like production.
It was funny, just a few days ago, Rob puts outs a mock with a LB in the 2nd, and maybe 4-5 or people liked it.
Please don’t move Ifedi. He is not a RT.
Give me Conley over Lattimore all day. Conley is a great fit.
RBs can be found anywhere in the draft. You might not get a ‘bell-cow’ there’s maybe 1-2 of those s year anyways, but if a team/GM can’t find a competent RB in this class? Those scouts need to be reevaluated.
So glad we can dead the ‘cut Jimmy Graham’ talk. This ain’t a video game.
I think Bevell gets a bum rap. Runs one of the most basic, simplified offenses in the league, I mean there’s 7 on 7 HS route concepts in there guys, but yet, when this team is on? Firing on all cylinders? They can’t be stopped and can put up 30 points with anybody. Don’t under estimate the ability to execute.
NE we are not. Let the players play. Too many coaches try and influence the game from the sidelines.
I agree about Bevell. He has one of the toughest jobs in football. He has to plan an offense around the worst offensive line in football, a quarterback with limitations in the pocket, and with key players getting injured seemingly every week. My concern with him is how little respect some of the players on the team have for him. Sherman shouldn’t be blowing up on him without repercussions IMO.
But guys, that’s the problem. Knowing how bad his oline is, design a quick passing offense. Way too many 5-7 step drops. Look what Ryan just did to the Hawks. If in shotgun, one step pass. Under center, three step pass. Yes, take shots downfield, but call plays to what you have. You both are making the same argument Bevell haters make, just trying to use it as the reason why it’s ok.
How many times did Russell take a 3 step drop and find no one open? Atlanta did what every other team does and took away the short routes. There’s a reason receivers were open down the field in single man coverage, like P-Rich beating Collins down the sideline and the slight overthrow on Baldwin that would have made the game 17-7.
14-7*
You can’t take one play in one game and say that. For a lot of Bevells time, he calls a lot of 5-7 step drops. Every play, no, but too many to count.
Which goes to the same point. KS looked at the way to succeed and operate a great gameplan. DB does not. Is the line a problem, yes.
But the point stands, that no one can get open in this offense, and we have a remarkably talented receiving corp. Bevel didn’t know how to use Harvin, didn’t know how to use Graham or PRich, doesn’t know how to produce a consistent, productive offense and never has, not here or in MIN. When will we stop making excuses for him and hire an O.C. who can do the job? Probably not until it’s too late.
When your QB is 5’10” you need to drop back a little further, it improves his vision. It also let’s Russ Improvise if he has We have extremely talented players, and I think Bevell does a fine job. Until the O line improves, our offense won’t flow. Even Tom Brady couldn’t win Super Bowls when pressure got to him. We see how good the offense can be with decent protection.
Blaming it all on the OL is a cop out. They’re not calling plays, missing throws or running routes that are always covered. They are one part of the problem.
For absolute clarity, i love Reddick in the 2nd and the fact Rob is steadfast on this one
Re: Graham
Distinct possibility that he doesn’t like wasting his talent in an offense that doesn’t know how to use him or a F.O. that won’t commit to fixing the problems holding him back I.e. OL and play caller. Don’t forget that he never chose to come here in the first place and hasn’t won a ring here.
Yeah he hates it here hah
No guarantee he will sign new contract here was my point
Move Ifedi immediately and I prefer Lattimore to Conley every day that ends in a ‘y’
I agree with everything else
Oh “coach Kenny”
Florida LB Alex Anzalone- 6’3, 240 lbs. . Seems like the type of guy Seattle would target in the 3rd if available. Injuries will probably affect his stock, but that’s never mattered come draft day with this front office/coaching staff. This kid has fought like hell to play football.
Jumps off the tape, can play SAM or WILL, possibly even MIKE (processes and diagnoses or breaks things down quickly), can rush the passer, cover, and looks like the type of guy who would be a Stud on STs. He has some Clay Matthews to his game. Besides the hair.
Highlights: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aB1kvG-bMdE&feature=youtu.be
Look at the effort, play speed, fluidity, and passion.
I have always liked him too Vol I was just not sure how he would fit with Bobby and KJ scheme wise. DO you think he is on the board the end of Rd #3?
My hunch, from Carrroll’s words, is that they might be looking for versatile backers. I think Anzalone can play all three spots. Injuries aside, I think that might make him a day two pick. I like the Clay Matthews comp. They might want to address LB before the end of round 3. We shall see.
Carroll Phillips might be able to fill the Bruce Irvin Role he not super fast probably 4.7ish but he can get to the QB 19 pressures and 9 sacks this year 6’3 240 look forward to seeing him at combine working with LB in drills. Devonte Fields could be interesting as well but not sure he will be on team boards because of gun play.
Phillips won’t be on the board if he runs a 4.7. Unless he puts up a blistering, explosive 10 yard split.
Fields doesn’t give enough effort. When he turns it on? He’s very good. That’s too few and far between though. Takes too many plays off for my liking.
Yup.
A line next year of
Fant/Glow/Britt/Ifedi/Bisnowaty
Looks to be solid. Assuming, Cable returns that is. I’m very concerned about Cable leaving. If the line depends on continuity, training and experience, the worst thing that could happen is the coach of that group leaving. Talk about a setback.
Continuity and experience is more of putting the time in on the field. They can absolutely improve with a new coach next year if it comes to that. New England had an awful line last year, and they improved mightily this year with essentially the same personnel despite having coaching turnover.
I keep hearing what a great OL coach is and it drives me crazy. I all his years of coaching please name me some offensive lineman he has developed into being truly great OL that have participated in more than on pro-bowl (Okung) Even before he got to Seattle it was the same thing his lines could run block OK but were terrible in pass pro.
The NFL is a results league and he has been part of the selection process and development of arguably the worst OL group in the NFL during his tenure. Certainly the worst pass blocking group.
Enough with the he has nothing to work with. They have spent more draft capital on the OL than the Cowboys. The problem is the guys he developed Carpenter for example did not justify being considered part of the core and a second contract. If Okung and Carpenter had been coached up and reached their potential they would have gotten deal, been considered part of the core and the OL would be much much better. That falls 100% on the OL draft selection and development process of OL in Seattle which Cable is directly responsible.
If some can give the argument that suports the idea he is this OL genius I would love to hear it. Please to not use the Sweezy example. He was the worst fee agent signing in the entire NFL this off season by TB. He was a mess technique wise and got by strictly on physicality and nastiness. Which l loved but he was not a well trained technically proficient Guard. In fact they say one of the keys to Britts improvement was Sweezy leaving and not having a negative influence on him.
Usually a coach is only as good as the players he has to work with.
When Kyle Shanahan was at Cleveland — he got fired.
Give him Matt Ryan, Julio Jones and everything else that comes with Atlanta’s offense… he’s a hot Head Coach name.
The funny thing is Atlanta fans wanted Kyle S. fired after last year. The big change was switching out the worst center in football with Alex Mack.
But they have spent on the draft and fa since 2010.
1st Ifedi/Carpenter/Okung
2nd Britt
3rd Mofitt
4th Glow/Poole
FA Webb
2012 and 2013 they didn’t draft a single OL before 7th round
Are those all strikes on the GM? Strikes to the scheme? I don’t think this team really looks in the mirror to see if they (and I quote) “Are what we thought they are!” And let off the hook.
The point is he was given a line this year that included a rookie LT, rookie RG, first year starter at LG, first year center, second year RT.
Nobody should’ve expected much from such a young OL.
I am really mixed on Cable.
The fan in me says he is not that good.
But a former AZ lineman who was briefly in Oakland said he is very good and that most fans have no idea how much these coaches know and the time they spend,
Michael Robinson backed him last year and I know he helped Lynch become a more productive runner by teaching him how to run in the ZBS.
Someone said the Walter Jones said Fant can be good, and he knows a little about OT’s.
I think lack of talent, and lack of experienced players goes a long way to explain Cable’s lack of success in Seattle with the o line.
based on my football experience vs Pete Carroll’s, my head tells me to trust Pete more than my fan instincts
and looking at the o lines in the Super Bowl last year, those tackles were horrible.
Rob the point is Cable has never in his career developed a pro bowl OL player anywhere he has been and his teams have been in the bottom third of pass protection wherever they have been.
We have had a good run game since Russ got here but before Russ came they were last in the league with Cable as coach and this year when Russ got hurt and could not run the run game was awful.
So I ask you has our run game been good because we had the most mobile Qb in the league and and once in a generation RB in Beast Mode or because the run blocking was so great. The answer is simple. When we had no beastmode and Russ running the run game was awful so there is your answer plain and simple.
I keep hearing he has nothing to work with but he has been hands on with every draft pick or free agent hey have signed. They are his guys and the reason he had such a young OL is because he could not develop anyone to the point to where they were good enough to keep.
Under PC \ JS we have spent more draft capital on the OL than the Cowboys so the idea that he has had nothing to work with does not hold water as he was a big part of picking those guys.
Lol oh NOOOO
NOT THE FAN VOTED PROOOO BOWWWWLLL
OHHHHH NOOOOOO
It absolutely falls on the GM. JS decided to pay Russell Wilson but let the O Line crumble. Makes no sense. I’m not saying Cable is a great OL coach but look what he has to work with?
GM who did a remarkable job along with Pete and McLaughlin, and is now doing a remarkably bad job supplementing his core group. I wonder if Itzig’s departure had more of an impact than we realized.
This approach to the OL is negligent. Even if Cant, Ifedi and Gilliam slowly become All Pros, the games they’ve cost us and will cost us isn’t worth it IMO.
GET A LT JON!!!!!
You hit the nail on the head. I don’t think Idzik’s departure was the issue but losing Scott McGloughan was a major hit. Our drafts have not been nearly as successful since he left
Same with Cable. People say he’s no good having never coached a pro bowler, but wouldn’t that mean the inverse?
No it means he can’t coach people up.
Kam and Sherm are 4th and 5th rounders who are All Pros because of coaching and scheme. That is what I am talking about.
You list Okung as a mutl-year pro bowl player. He was also the only top-10 offensive lineman drafted by the Hawks. Coincidence?
I don’t think creation of pro-bowl linemen is a very valid metric for quality of coaching. The fact is, Cabal has prove he can turn guys into serviceable players. It takes some time, but he can do it. They’ve led the league in rushing multiple times and have generally had a top offensive DVOA while he’s been around.
This year’s line was essentially rookies and one player that every fan of the team wanted cut in the offseason. (Britt) Did they struggle? Of course. Did Britt Excel? Yes, the dude is probably going to the pro-bowl.
So Cable was able to turn a guy that everyone wanted sacking groceries this year into a pro-bowl caliber center. You can believe that’s just dumb luck, or you can believe that’s because the system works and that it simply takes a season or two of time to build these guys up. If you believe that Cabal can do what he did for Britt for the other members of the line, then you have to be excited about players like Glow, Ifedi and Fant. What if a couple of those guys make strides like Britt did next season?
Frankly, I trust our coaching staff’s judgment of progress and potential of their players more than I trust ours.
No I said Okung was the only player who had made a pro bowl. He made one that is it not multiple. He was the 6th overall pick and could not be developed to the point where he was worth signing to a second contract. That is my point.!
They lead the league in rushing because they had a once in a generation RB in Lynch and the most athletic QB in the league. With Cable as coach before they traded for Lynch they were last in the league in rushing and this year when Russ got hurt we see the results. They were a good rushing team because of extreme skill position talent not run blocking. If Beast Mode ran behind the Cowboys OL he would have ran for 2000 yds + per year. Every year he led the league in yards after contact and Russ was 1st or 2nd in QB rushing.
I am not saying I am a better judge of roster talent than our coaching staff. I never once said anything like that. I just think there are a lot of coaches who get paid a lot of money that could do a much better job than Tom Cable has done with this offensive line. He has had 7 years now to build an OL and every year it is the same thing our OL sucks and we are praying they can be serviceable by the playoffs.
The year we won the SB we had the most expensive OL in the league and they were still just very average.
If you want to see the impact an OL coach can have look at the Patriots this year. Last year they had a new OL coach and their OL was as bad as ours. They were the reason Denver beat NE.
This year they went sack to their old OL coach Scarnecchia and brought him out of retirement. Same players. In fact they lost one of their OTs to injury and the OL is vastly improved.
I have no faith we will ever have an above average OL until we change coaches because we have not had one yet in 7 years so why would things magically change now.
Cable seriously misjudged what Gilliam could do, he was pencilled in as the LT at the beginning of the year, but he couldn’t even hold the RT job, he missed a block on Reed who was right in front of him and Wilson was sacked. The Falcons stunted several times in the game and Fant and Gilliam were beat several times. If the Hawks go into next year with these two tackles the fans should revolt, and Wilson should not be so passive and tell Pete to do something about it.
Pete’s doing something.
He doesnt need Russell to tell him. Russell knows this.
Initially after hearing PC’s press conference, I was pretty disappointed about his comments on the O line. But after thinking on it, he might have a point. What positions really need to be addressed?
RT – Gilliam played very well down the stretch, even elite at times. He was great in the playoffs. At this point, his job is probably secure. After the early season LT debacle, I think they keep him on the right side and give him a full training camp there.
RG – Ifedi was rated one of the worst guards in football, but he’s a 1st round rookie with amazing upside. There is no way he’s not starting next year and nor should they look at replacing him. It’s too early to give up on a potential superstar guard. It would be an extreme disappointment if he didn’t improve next year.
C – Britt is good, enough said there.
LG – Glo is average. He looks good at times but overmatched at times as well. This is a position that could be addressed but it would cost a lot. You wouldn’t want to replace him with another average guy, you would want a Zeitler level player (can he even play LG?).
LT – This is one position that should be addressed, but where are you going to find a decent LT? Okung? Unless Bolles falls, this is a tough one. It’s not out of the question that Fant might start by default next season.
Really you are looking at LG and LT as realistic spots to improve on. I can understand why Pete is ok with the line going forward, assuming there is some improvement and Gilliam continues to play well. What do you guys think?
To counter this, maybe Ifedi doesn’t improve (wouldn’t be the first 1st round pick we drafted on the O line that didn’t), Gilliam falls off a cliff again and Fant is still not ready. This is all very possible too.
Did Justin Britt not teach you anything? For two seasons every fan (myself included) screamed and yelled about how terrible he was. We all bitched about his lack of development and called Cable out for a terrible choice.
All of us should be eating crow.
Britt has turned into a damn fine lineman. I don’t think you can contribute his success to moving to Center. If anything I think it makes his development that much more impressive. I tend to believe had he stayed at T or G that he would have experiences similar success this year.
Cable did what he said he would. He took a guy that fit his mold and turned him into a serviceable lineman. (probably more than “servicable”)
So why should we instantly think that Ifedi won’t improve when common wisdom says that players make big strides between years one and two? Ifedi has incredible measurables. We were almost universally thrilled with that pick. When he “gets it” look out. I hope he makes his big leap this offseason rather than year three like Britt.
If none of the core OL players make strides next season, then we can probably start voicing real concerns. But, until we see what another offseason of work and a healthy Wilson and Rawls does, I choose to keep my pessimism in check.
Britt was a huge surprise this year and the most positive part of the OL . I agree.
How is this considered a great coaching job though. He was a 2nd round pick! Read that again a 2nd round pick and for the previous 2 year he was the worst OL player in the league. Lots have guys have been drafted much later and contributed much quicker. This is hardly a great coaching success. A player draft in 2nd round to play Center is expected to be elite.
I like Britt and hope they extend him to build continuity. But if Cables big coaching success is draft a guy in the 2nd round then take 3 years to develop into a league average Center then that speaks volumes.
Anyways I will stop commenting on Cable I have made my feeling clear and I doubt it will change as Pete is a loyal guy. This is one we will have to agree to disagree on. I hope I am wrong and he develops these guys into a great OL.
Loyal to a fault.
The thing is, Britt made the jump from year 2 to year 3. As most O-lineman do.
Not year 1 to 2 like Ifedi. I hope they push the hell out of Ifedi with some competition. Make him earn it. 1st round status be damned.
Yes they should be pushing him already to become a quality starter in 7 months.
They better have on the treadmill watching film right now
His coaching success lies in his Proven Ability to take players undrafted and changing positions and teach them to be NFL players.
If you can’t recognize that, then I dont know what OL coach you’d like.
Lol Dallas’ OL coach sucks because of all the draft capital spent on his unit.
They didnt need any coaching.
“Every draft pick should pan out.”
“First rounders go to the pro bowl, second rounders are starters… And defensive tackles and power forwards turned into OL will always be garbage because i cant take off my pouty coloured spectacles”
#firecable
You know what really makes a good OL?
Familiarity.
Remember when fans were clamoring for as little ol change as possible
Adjusted sack rate ranking of Tom Cable offensive lines, 2006-2016:
31
27
30
31
26
24
20
32
24
30
25
Every single year for 10 years he has been in t bottom of the league. His best was #20. But you think this is good coaching?
To silly to even talk about 10 years of OLs do not lie.
Well, just to ballance that picture:
the 2012 OL sent 40% of it’s starters to the pro bawl.
The 2013 OL won the SB.
The 2014 OL got to the SB.
Wilson – set
Rawls – need upgrade
Baldwin – set
Richardson – set
Kearse – need upgrade
Graham – set
Fant – need upgrade
Glowinski- need upgrade
Britt – set
Ifedi – set
Gilliam – need upgrade
Bennett – set
Reed – set
Rubin – need upgrade
Avril – set
Wright – set
Wagner – set
Marsh – need upgrade
Shead – need upgrade because he is hurt
Sherman – set
Thomas – set
Chancellor – set
Those are just the starters if we don’t resign 2017 FA. If the OL only needs time and they are ok with it (please at least change the scheme to more man on man), they really need that 3rd LB that can rush the passer on passing downs and another solid CB.
1st King
2nd Reddick
Nascar package (Avril/Reddick/Bennett/Clark/Wright/Wagner/King/Sherman/Lane/Thomas/Chancellor)
We just need more quality depth at running back not and upgrade
and glowinski was our second best offensive lineman this year, most likely gonna stick with gilliam at rt as well he counties to improve
But that is an upgrade. Not meaning replace, but improve.
But I would say if you get a Zeitler, it would improve. Britt and Ifedi are about the only two untouchables on the OL
Seattle lost the battle against attrition this year, with so many players going down with injuries. It’s hard for any team to overcome that many losses to key contributors, and still find success.
A little homerism around Kevin King, good player but i have to think a guy you can get in round 3 or 4…I remember last year some were saying take UW linebacker Travis Feeney in the 2nd round. Dynamic, Sparqy player. He went in round 6, got cut and is now on a pracrice squad..
I am not a fan of Washington or any college team.
Tony Pauline says he’s a top-45 pick. Daniel Jeremiah has him in his top-50 prospects. He won’t be there in rounds three or four.
Fair enough…I just saw the Daniel Jerimah article…interesting
Rob, you are wise to be scouting CBs, because the unfortunate injury to Shead is (according to Pete) even worse than the run-of-the-mill ACL (which is bad enough). We have to assume that Shead will not be full-go for all or most of next season, alas. Lane cannot play RCB effectively, and the other guys have shown nothing. It would be a reasonable assumption that the Seahawks will have to find a starting CB in R1.
Adding talent is clearly important, but even more important is to figure out what exactly is wrong with this team ever since the blown Super Bowl. One clear reason is very untimely injuries to key players, but if NE can survive losing Gronk, can’t we survive losing ET?
This team is underperforming, playing without discipline, lacking in focus, and behind in its offensive and defensive schemes. Am I missing something, or do these attributes clearly indicate a need for an infusion of coaching talent? I refuse to play the excuse game, and find reasons for this lack of performance, and prefer to measure things based on wins alone.
On that basis, the OL play can hardly be worse. If Vince Lombardi was the OL coach of this group, I would still say that Pete needs to find this status quo unacceptable and act accordingly. Kyle Shanahan’s schemes were so far ahead of Kris Richard’s schemes that they should be the cause of deep embarrassment in the VMAC film rooms. And as good as Matt Ryan and his receivers were, they are certainly no better, talent-wise, than Russell Wilson, Jimmy Graham and Doug Baldwin, so why the limpid loss to Atlanta? It is time for Pete to bring in some new blood to give this team an infusion of vitality.
Good post and great points. Have felt the same the last few years. It’s hard to look in the mirror and see who you really are. I’ll give them the excuse of being to close to see or know more behind the scenes things we don’t. But at some point you have to see the writing on the wall.
Gus Bradley was promoted to Head Coach due to the superlative job he did as Seahawks Defensive Coordinator. He is available, and his salary would not count against the cap. He is liked and admired by the entire ‘Hawks organization. The entire defensive unit needs a good shaking up and he is just the guy to do it. Get out the checkbook and hire him as Seahawks DC, quickly, before he goes to SF or the Chargers. There is no reason not to, and this would send a strong and timely signal that every positive in the organization will be upgraded as necessary.
*position*
Won’t happen, but I agree.
Rob I really like Rasul Douglas he had 8 interceptions last year and is a senior out of WVU he is 6’2 and looks pretty physical. I know i mentioned him on a previous post but he just looks like a seahawk corner to me. I would love to see them draft Douglas and King , the secondary depth would be just unmatched.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/shrine-bowl-rosters-east-west-combine-measurements-nfl-draft/1qlhi6qat3k8r1pux1ra5ll46a
Kinda hard to decipher, but some Shrine Game measurables
Rob what are your thoughts on samanje perine? i think he would be an awesome fit, he is fast physical, has great vision, and incredible balance. He also had major production in college which the seahawks love as well.
1st Budda Baker DB
2nd Adam Bisnowaty OT
3rd Samanje Perine RB
3rd Anthony Walker Jr. LB
6th Brendan Langley CB/KR/PR
Mixed on Perine. Sometimes he looks physical and fast for his size. Other times he just looks meh.
For all those who say the Hawks have not spent enough our given enough talent to Cable. Here is the Patriots starting OL this year. The middle of their OL has a rookie and two 2nd year guys with the highest pick being a 3rd rounder.
Funny how I never hear anyone saying the Pats OL sucks. Last year they were awful so they bring back a good Ol coach in Scadechi and this year they are a solid unit again. Coincidence? I think not.
LT Solder, Nate (1st Round Pick)
LG Thuney, Joe (Rookie 3rd Rd Pick)
C Andrews, David C (UDFA 2nd year player)
RG Mason, Shaquille (4th Rd 2nd yr player)
RT Cannon, Marcus (5th round pick)
I want the Seahawks to be New England 2.0 i.e. sustain excellence for a decade plus. Restocking while not losing is so difficult. If you have the coach and the QB it can be done.
They aren’t NE nor will they ever be.
Why not?
What do you mean why not? Do I have to answer that?
Different organizations. JS comes from Ron Wolf tree. PC and Bellichek have different philosophies.
If other teams try and emulate them, good luck. Belkichek’s just grow on trees?
Seattle knows what its doing. Good for NE that they can hit on O-lineman. What’s that gotta do with us?
If fans want Seattle to become NE. Easy solution. Go root for the Patriots!
With Wilson having 10 years left the potential is there for another decade of playoff contention if things go well. That’s my point.
Wilson has ten more years easy but Bennett, Wagner/wright and the LOB do not. We’re not finding their successors in recent drafts and given this reality, and it’s unavoidable, we need to go ALL IN like we did in 2013.
No more Cant Getitdone and Ifedi 3 stooges.
That’s not the argument. Nobody is saying that. Fans are saying quit making excuses about things other teams overcome. That doesn’t mean go root for that team. It means PC is a great coach and JS is a great gm, so emulate the way other teams stay successful. Evolve or die. That’s the argument. Wanting to be as good for as long as another organization does not mean root for the other.
And Im sure theyre taking your argument in the suggestion box.
“Be likr Billychick”
They have a philosophy and they won’t stray from it.
Good. Great,” Belichick said. “Not a coach in the NFL I respect more than Pete Carroll. He’s a tremendous coach. He and I have kind of come up together in roughly the same era. We’ve both been defensive coordinators, we’ve both been head coaches.
“I have a ton of respect for what Pete does as a coach, how good of a fundamental teacher he is, the way his teams play. I’ve studied him from afar — we’ve never worked together. Studied Pete from afar over a long period of time. I’ve learned a lot from what he does, and indirectly, I think he’s made me a better coach. I have all the respect in the world for Pete and his staff.”
I think they know what they’re doing
NE is an anomaly. Not sure anyone can replicate that sustained level of success. I always saw us as more of a better Steelers or Packers. More cyclical than NE. Definite contender with a special team every 3 year. Only we have more talent.
The point was not that the Hawks should be like NE. I love th culture Pete has created in Seattle.
The point was the impact a good OL coach can have. Same players with different coaches and different results.
Rob, just wanted to say great job on this article. It will be fun to see how the Top Prospects change as more info comes out, especially after the Combine. I think Seattle’s draft strategy was seriously altered by the DeShawn Shead injury. Sounds like his injury was far beyond just a torn ACL and the way Carrol was talking, its possibly career threatening.
Add that to Carrols damning “faint praise” of Jeremy Lane’s season, and I think Corner will be a big need for Seattle–and that they will take one before the fourth round for sure this year. From other things Carrol said, sounds like they wont be throwing money at Zeitler or anyone else, rather looking for solid buys and young guys to add to the competition. Also sounds like Carrol wants the O-line to open up competition at every position, and perhaps that isnt what happened this year. I find that particularly interesting.
Im a bit disappointed, since I dont see Fant, Ifedi and Gilliam suddenly being better after this offseason. Rather, I expect them to pick up where they left off vs Atlanta–sucking, and needing LOTS of work on technique and knowledge. Im nearly desperate to see Ifedi and Gilliam and Glowinsky and Fant make the jump Britt did when he moved to C…ALso sad to hear they intend to keep Ifedi at RG next year–I think he is a natural tackle and would instantly be a better player at RT. I just dont see him able to handle the suddenness of the G position at the NFL level.
LB is a spot they have needed to add to for awhile, and they havent found the right guy later in the draft. Pierre-Louis is not panning out at all, and so far has played at a level replaceable by any street Free Agent.
Carrol didnt mention TE or DT, but I guarantee they are looking to add to those spots as well. They like to draft guys a year or two before they have to replace someone, to give the young guys time to adapt to the NFL. With Graham under contract for only one year, coming off a major injury and still not 100%, added to Willson being a FA and Vannett not really showing much, I think they will look very hard at the top two-three TE prospects as well. And with McDaniel aging and Rubin nearing the end, Seattle still needs another big boy who can pass rush at least a bit to bookend Jarran Reed.
I think Seattle plays the Draft a bit this year, taking BPA at a need position. Hopefully they dont feel forced to pick a guy at a certain position over a player at another they may have rated higher. They have admitted they have done this in the past…
I agree about TE and DT.
I think they’ll look to FA for a DT. They always do anyways. Doesn’t mean they won’t draft one either.
TE is incredibly deep. The Shrine Game guys are only adding to it. Late day 3 there will be a ton of talent.
Oregon St CB Treston DeCoud- 6’2, 203 lbs., 33″ arms
Utah OT Sam Tevi (former DT)- 6’5, 312 lbs. over 34″ arms
Purdue WR De’Angelo Yancey- 6’1, 220 lbs.
Yancey is blowing people away.
Tevi has quick feet
Florida DT Joey Ivie putting a show as well. Very versatile. Can play 5-tech, 3-tech, and in a NASCAR package, the 1-tech.
Never mind. Ivie don’t have the length.
Colorado DT Josh Tupuo is 362 lbs!
Looking at the draft it seems that most of us found common ground hoping for CB (maybe even 2), S, OT and LB. And maybe we even got a pro-bowl pass rusher out of FA.
Our SB windows should be open for at least 2 to 3 more years with our veteran core players.
Players on our positions of need drafted at 26 and beyond are not guaranteed starters from day 1. Some of them may need a year to get to starter level. Keeping all this in mind let’s draft:
Say we are lucky and get Bolles or Cunningham in R1. Before our next pick at 58 a lot of out top choices at C B or S will be gone.
So what about trading our 2018 first round pick for a pick at around 36 (is that realistic?) to get Maybe Baker or A. Jackson and then still having our three picks on day 2.
Effectively we would get a first round talent a year earlier so we don’ trade away our future IMO.
What are you thinking? Does it make any sense?
Wow, trading a 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick. I understand your thinking- I can’t recall a trade like that ever being done? I like the out of the box thinking on your part tho!
Actually, Seattle did that with Denver I think like a decade ago. If you see the value, why not. Doubt it happens though.
Downside..Russell tears ACL in week 1, Hawks have a terrible year go 5-11 & now that 1st round pick is a top ten generational talent the Hawks miss on…too risky a chance to take..IMO
Good write up. I thought Deandre Elliot did an OK job after Shead went down. Got beat on a deep out (but who didn’t that game) but was in good position. Maybe he sticks. I always thought that the George Farmer conversion to CB would be a move that paid off, and maybe he should head back there for competitions sake. I agree they should grab 2 CB if possible but I find myself more concerned with a new slot corner. Lane was bad this year and the middle of the field has always been an issue with Seattle. Teams are also throwing on us more often on first down and we are in nickle more than half the time. Cam Sutton is a personal fav of mine and would be a tremendous boost IMO. The more i see Adoree Jackson the more I like him. Off the charts athlete who just seems like a difference maker especially if he can be a slot/safety/rover type. A less tough Honey Badger. Late Round Homer-pick: Treston Decoud, Oregon State. 6’3”, 208 frame that can hand fight, turn and run with a guy. Plays the run like Sherman and often compared to him. Playing in the Shrine game coming up and getting VERY positive reviews. You all should check him out.