Curtis Allen’s week fifteen watch points (vs LA Rams)

Note: This is a guest post by Curtis Allen and the latest piece in a weekly series. Curtis looks at the Seahawks and their opponents and discusses key factors.

Matchups with the Rams have provided some of the lowest points for the franchise in Pete Carroll’s tenure:

– A 42-7 blowout in Week Fifteen of 2017 that signaled a shift in the NFC West division power structure and ushered in major changes of the Seahawks’ roster that offseason.

-A humiliating playoff loss against a backup quarterback at home last year that left Carroll struggling for answers at the podium after the game.

-A Week Five loss this season that sent the Seahawks into a tailspin from which they have yet to recover.

Will this week’s game be another one of those low points? The stakes are as high as they could be in a 5-8 season. A loss guarantees this will be the Seahawks’ first losing season since 2011. It would also dash any remaining faint hopes of making the playoffs.

All of which would throw into sharp relief that which has been evident for a while now — the Seahawks need a change in leadership.

In a way, these excruciating losses perfectly frame the frustration fans have felt with Pete Carroll. He has a demonstrated inability to adapt his game strategies to better match up with his opponents and this has cost the team dearly.

How do you beat the Rams? We have talked about it and talked about it and talked about it.

To sum it up succinctly, you must:

1. Start well out of the gate
2. Win the turnover battle
3a. Run the ball a lot and employ quick throws to get ahead of the pass rush
3b. Win the time-of-possession game to keep their offense off the field

Other teams in the league have modelled this approach to beating the Rams for us:

Even the lowly New York Jets are getting in on that action.

But nobody has done it better than the division rival San Francisco 49ers, who have defeated the Rams in their last five games straight:

Meanwhile, in their last five games against the Rams, the Seahawks are 1-4. This is a result of the Seahawks doing the exact opposite of these keys to success:

Look at the disparity between those numbers and the winners above. The last two (avg depth of target and time of possession difference) stand out in stark contrast to the winning teams. Why?

Depth of target typically correlates to how much time the quarterback needs to spend with the ball in his hands. Winning teams are getting the ball out quickly. The Seahawks, on the other hand, are sending their receivers deeper into the field – thus making Russell Wilson wait longer – than any of those teams.

Put another way, in those five games, the Seahawks – with a patchwork offensive line matching up against the likes of Aaron Donald, Leonard Floyd and (formerly) Michael Brockers – have actively decided to have their quarterback spend extra time in the pocket.

If that wasn’t bad enough, here is the part that really stings — the Seahawks are doing this by design.

Look at this chart measuring their depth of target vs their whole year average and the cumulative results on the quarterback:

In this stretch spanning games against all NFL teams, the Seahawks have had five of their deepest ‘depth of target’ games against the Rams. Russell Wilson is waiting 15-20% longer for receivers to uncover than he does in games against all the other teams they have played. The results are both disastrous and avoidable.

As you can see, Wilson is almost constantly under pressure when playing the Rams, which we know has a massive impact on an offense. Throwing away the ball, getting sacked, making rash decisions that increase the chances of a turnover and (this one is painful to write) exposing the quarterback to injury have all been part of the plan for games against the Rams in this stretch.

The impact on the game is heavy, from stopping the clock and giving that powerful offense the ball with time to spare, to making the Seahawks’ offense play even further behind, to impacting the mentality of the players on the field.

Look at Russell Wilson’s target chart for the Week Five game. Half of his passes are targeted more than ten yards out:

Is it all the “Russell is ignoring the short throws in favor of long gainers” trope? No. In the last two games (against San Francisco and Houston) he has thrown only 29% of his attempts past ten yards (19 of 65). These deeper throws against the Rams appear to be a planned strategy.

Meanwhile, the team is averaging 4.63 yards per carry on the ground against the Rams but not utilizing their running game enough — as they have topped out at only 25 carries in these five games.

To summarize, the Rams are not great defending the running game, feature an extremely potent pass rush led by the best player in the NFL and have a creative offense that is explosive and needs to be kept off the field.

The Seahawks on the other hand, have constantly struggled in their pass protection and overall defense and their stated goal is to use the running game to gather momentum for the offense.

Yet time and time again, they have refused to acknowledge their opponent’s strengths, while ignoring their own weaknesses and game planning in a way that reflects that. It is like stepping into the ring of a heavyweight title fight after intentionally tying one arm behind your back.

Also, the “start slow and finish with a flash of fury” style that Pete Carroll has embraced plays right into the Rams’ hands. The Rams have been allowed to start very quickly and then let their defense pin their ears back and attack Russell Wilson as he tries to will the team to a victory.

What a way to cap an era — with a coach who has not built the team to play the way he wants to play and who plans to deploy that team in critical games against a division rival in a manner that negatively impacts their opportunities for success.

Giving the Seahawks a fighting chance to beat the Rams is entirely within Pete Carroll’s grasp. Will he acknowledge this and roll out a game plan that does that? We will see.

In truth, that is the only watch point for this week:

Can the Seahawks break this awful pattern they have found themselves in and deploy a game plan that allows them to truly compete with the Rams?

Everything else is secondary.

But here are some brief thoughts about some of the more detailed areas the Seahawks need to have success in on Sunday.

They must get pressure with the front four

Matthew Stafford is killing blitzes this season. He has a 131.8 passer rating when blitzed, with eleven touchdowns and no interceptions.

With all the Rams’ moving parts on offense, the Seahawks do not have blitzers to spare anyway.

Pete Carroll has consistently shrugged off the poor play of his pass rush this season, preferring to talk about the defensive line’s run-stopping. Yet this would be a fantastic opportunity to give Alton Robinson and Darrell Taylor more reps and allow them to create some problems for Stafford while the men behind him are handling the coverage.

Watch Taylor power through Tyler Higbee and take Stafford down:

More of this, please.

Contain Cooper Kupp

Kupp continues his ascent to becoming one of the NFL’s best players. More than one player and coach on the Rams has acknowledged that the offense runs through him.

Look at how widely he was deployed Monday against the Cardinals:

Just like George Kittle for San Francisco, the Rams do a fantastic job of scheming Kupp open. To the point where viewers and announcers ask four or five times a game “how did one of the best players in the league get THAT wide open?”

Every single linebacker, safety and corner will need to know where #10 is on the field when they line up.

Just a thought — the Seahawks will be without Jamal Adams in this game. Will having more of a ‘typical’ defensive lineup help the Seahawks contain the ‘schemed wide open’ traits the Rams like to run? It is very possible. Adams being used in so many different ways might have put a strain on this defense that we cannot quite quantify until we see it without Adams for a stretch of games.

This is your chance, Rashaad Penny

The Seahawks have given the talented Penny chance after chance after chance to make an impact on their offense.

Sunday he showed us why:

Critics are saying ‘yeah but that was against the NFL’s worst rushing defense.’ Time to answer them. It’s time to show the Seahawks, the NFL and yourself what you’re made of.

And given our main watch points above, the time is perfect to have a great game running the ball.

Can he lift the offense up with another great game? Or was Sunday just another tantalizing glimpse into his potential before disappearing back into the blue tent for the rest of the season?

Special Teams may very well win or lose this game

Michael Dickson has been Michael Dickson this year. He created one of the NFL’s plays of the year with his ‘double punt’ against these very Rams in Week Five:

That 68-yard scoop and punt late in the third quarter kept the Seahawks in the game. In three seconds, Rams fans went from ‘this game is over’ to ‘what is he doing???’ to ‘I can’t believe he turned a block into a 68-yard punt!’

They will need every bit of Dickson’s skill Sunday to corral this defense.

Jason Myers is not on a good streak. He missed 2 PAT’s Sunday against the Texans and that kept the team on edge in a game that was tighter than it should have been.

They will need Myers to hit at least one crucial kick Sunday. He needs to be up to the challenge.

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  1. AlaskaHawk

    Good analysis Cha, you have been solid in your weekly writeups – thanks.

    I’m moving this from the last article as it’s pertinent to sunday.

    The Seattle Seahawks will be short-handed at receiver against the Los Angeles Rams on Sunday.

    Seattle’s top four receivers — Tyler Lockett, DK Metcalf, Freddie Swain and Dee Eskridge — were all unable to practice with the team on Thursday. Lockett, along with running back Alex Collins, was placed on the COVID-19 reserve list on Thursday after testing positive. Metcalf, Swain and Eskridge were all sidelined due to injuries.

    Metcalf (foot/back), Eskridge (foot) and Swain (ankle) have all three yet to practice this week. Metcalf has typically been getting at least one day off a week as he’s managed his foot injury. The back issue is a new addition. Swain’s absence on Thursday was also attributed to a non-injury related personal matter.

    The only receiver from their active roster that participated in practice on Thursday was Penny Hart, who has seven total catches in his career for 56 yards. Six of those catches and 53 yards have come this season for Seattle.

    The Seahawks have four receivers currently on their practice squad in Cody Thompson, Aaron Fuller, Cade Johnson and Matt Cole. Thompson and Fuller have been practice squad elevations previously and have spent all season on the team’s practice squad. Johnson has spent most of the year on the squad with Cole a new addition this week.

    Cha, you mentioned from Pete Carroll press release that Eskridge would play, But it sounds like the Seahawks will be forced to run the ball with Homer and Penny. The wide receivers are too injured to contribute signifantly.

  2. 12th chuck

    thanks for the write up, for both you and Rob

    • cha

      You’re welcome

  3. Big Mike

    Raiders v. Browns moving from Saturday to Monday due to Covid numbers (Cleveland).
    Seahawks next?

  4. AlaskaHawk

    Los Angeles Rams players on Covid List and won’t play.
    Von Miller (LB)
    Tremayne Anchrum Jr. (OL)
    Antoine Brooks Jr. (DB)
    Troy Reeder (LB)
    Kareem Orr (DB)
    Bobby Evans (OL)
    Jake Gervase (DB)
    Ogbonnia Okoronkwo (LB)
    Christian Rozeboom (LB)
    Odell Beckham Jr. (WR)
    Justin Hollins (LB)
    Johnny Mundt (TE)
    Jared Pinkney (TE)
    Jordan Fuller (DB)
    Tyler Hall (DB)
    Sebastian Joseph-Day (DL)
    Terrell Burgess (DB)
    Brycen Hopkins (DB)
    JuJu Hughes (DB)
    Alaric Jackson (OL)
    Jonah Williams (DL)
    Jalen Ramsey DB)
    Rob Havenstein (OL)
    Donte Deayon (DB)
    Darrell Henderson (RB)

    • pdway

      wow….that’s crazy…

  5. Big Mike

    Fantastic write-up as always cha. At the same time, it was utterly depressing based on the Pete Carroll approach to playing this team. Those first paragraphs should be mandatory reading for Jody Allen.

  6. sgtPeppy

    Schefter reporting that the NFL is considering moving the game to Tuesday.

    • Peter

      This is stupid. Nearly two years in to the first reported cases in the US and games are fetting reshuffled? It can’t be player safety unless all the rest of the games are getting reshuffled following.

      A tuesday game then a 4.5 day turn around for another game?

      I barely care what anyone thinks about these times. And i come here for the football. But. Whether you think this is a big deal or no biggie it still CURRENTLY is trending towards endemic. And as such, frankly, i think while in an active season of football if you test positive….tough. if you’re whole team tests positive, tough. To me it’s literally as easy as any procedures you’d take to not be out drinking and partying on a game night.

      • Big Mike

        Whether people agree with you or not, I will mention the Pac 12 took the approach you’re advocating with the UW men’s basketball team and made then forfeit a game against UCLA they were unable to play because a whole bunch of players and staff were positive. They also canceled their game in Spokane against Gonzaga several days later but being non-league it just went down as canceled, no forfeit.

        • Peter

          Big Mike. That’s just it though. I hope wherever anyone comes out on this all this ends tomorrow. Duh. But let’s say this goes on and on for many more years I tjink at some point it will just have to be that just like supposedly light’s out in a hotel is 9pm on game night, ice baths, and massage work during the week the players’ job will be to stay fit and ready or else…

          • Big Mike

            Here’s the problem though I have a cousin who is a school administrator who has had both doses where’s a basketball times washes his hands regularly and is thoroughly and came down with the omicron variant.

            • Big Mike

              So hes done everything right and how many of those players did as well and how many were foolish? We’ll never know. I’m just throwing out the other side of the coin here.

              • Peter

                I get that. I really do.

                Perhaps there is going to have to be an additional flex week or something moving forwatd.

                Tuesday is platable but what if the time frame lifting is thursday? Wednesday? Do you have twams playing on a three day or two day turn around?

                Finally. Von miller….i’m not saying old Von was definitely doing something stupid that got him into this situation…..but I’m not NOT saying he was doing something stupid….

                • Big Mike

                  Flex week is a very good idea

                • BobbyK

                  Nobody does strip clubs like Von Miller.

            • Big Mike

              Is that should have read wears a mask at all times

              • Big Mike

                It’s also a little bit more palatable as a Hawks fan knowing that they play their next game at home next Sunday at 1 pm. The Rams have to travel to Minnesota for a game at 10 am so they do at least have to pay a greater price for having all these guys get the variant.

                • Big Mike

                  Now if that were the stealers rather than the Rams, the NFL would move that game to Monday night to give them an extra day of rest.

  7. GaiusMarius

    Game officially moved to Tuesday, I mean, it wouldn’t be fair to the Rams to have all of those players out…wait, I mean this is being done out of public health concerns.

    • AlaskaHawk

      And they will all be magically better by Tuesday and not pass it along. The Rams should forfeit the game and then let the season play on. One easy win for the Seahawks.

      • cha

        If they forfeit, none of the players on either team get paid.

        • Peter

          Probably a future contract change with the league and players association. I mean thursday night football sucks and hasn’t been great for players. Why should players not get paid if one team can’t go. When the alternative is another short turn around?

        • Elmer

          Obviously, safety is the most important consideration.

          However, postponement is punitive to the Seahawks. The Rams are the ones with the big COVID problem and it gives us a short week next week.

          Here is a solution that achieves safety and avoids postponements. Every team is allowed to have a 16 man practice squad. In emergency situations allow elevation of as many practice squad players as it takes to field a 53 man roster. Or Allow activation of the entire practice squad. Teams don’t get to use their best 53 players, but too bad. Safety is preserved and games are played on schedule.

          There is no guarantee that a 2 delay is going to make any difference anyway.

  8. TomLPDX

    Leave it to KJ to call out the truth…

    3 games moved. Why didn’t they move Denver’s game last year when ALL of their QBs were on the covid list and they had to call up someone who had no business being a QB at the time.

    Every team moved is a playoff team and their opponent in out of luck.

    • Peter

      There you have it. Play off seeding implications.

    • cha

      Denver was caught red-handed violating the protocols. The QBs weren’t masked and were evasive when the questions started coming up. I think I read somewhere they took their trackers off and huddled together (Denver Hawker?)

      They deserved to be made to play on and eat the loss.

      That’s not to say that nothing fishy that happened around the Rams, but hasn’t been reported at all.

      • TomLPDX

        My biggest issue with that was bringing in a guy who had no business being an NFL QB at that moment and putting him in an enhanced position to get hurt…badly. I don’t remember the Denver QBs trying to pull a fast one but I’m old and senile and probably forgot about that. Still didn’t make it right.

    • pepoandart

      Completely agree with KJ here. Teams that don’t/haven’t taken the steps to ensure the players are healthy and ready to go shouldn’t be rewarded.If the NFL really wanted to put a stop to this they would have the team responsible for any postponement forfeit a 5th-3rd round pick. That would put a stop to this nonsense. That said hopefully all players effected have mild symptoms and make full recoveries.

      • 12th chuck

        pretty evident it isn’t about player safety, playing 2 games in 5 days smh

  9. TomLPDX

    Excellent write-up, Curtis. thanks!

    • cha

      My pleasure

      • Peter

        Super fascinating stuff btw. Really interesting to see Seattle runs the longest plays it can when playing the rams.

  10. Robert Las Vegas

    It is just me but in the last week or so how many hockey players and football players have tested positive has everyone got so relaxed that you don’t believe in masking far Rams and Washington football I am guessing protocol is not being properly done.

    • Elmer

      That, and Omicron is making it more challenging to stay healthy.

    • bmseattle

      My guess is that since most positive tests are “asymptomatic”, and the few players who are actually feeling symptoms are feeling mild symptoms, and that no players in the NFL (in almost 2 years) have had serious issues or have died… that most of them just aren’t that worried about it.

      • CHaquesFan

        Ryquell Armstead (Jags RB) missed the entire 2020 season because of COVID complications

  11. no frickin clue

    Great use of data here, cha. The comparison of what the Hawks are doing against the Rams, versus what the teams that are beating the Rams are doing, is just startling. The standard game plan that they are trotting out is just indefensible.

    • cha


      The more I look at the sack and pressure numbers against the Rams, the more it seemed inevitable that RW would get some kind of injury playing against them.

  12. Andrew M

    Omicron is proving to be way more infectious than Delta or Covid-classic, and also proving to be impervious to vaccines and boosters. And the NFL adopted a few tighter rules beginning this month. All together it’s leading to a dramatic rise in positive tests. The NFLPA agreed to all this, so I don’t see any conspiracy or immediate advantage to any specific team. It’s just a stupid confluence of factors surrounding Covid.

    • Andrew M

      Gotta say though, I would think it deliciously hilarious if the Rams had to forfeit a game to us. It’s probably going to be a messy mid-week game, with stars sidelined on both sides. Hard enough for us to beat the Rams at full strength.

    • Norman

      Just to clarify for anyone reading and prevent misinterpretation, “impervious” is a strong word here; existing vaccines have limited effectiveness at preventing Omicron infection, but are still very effective at reducing severity of the infection once contracted.

      This concludes my PSA. 🙂

  13. Paul Cook

    It’s kind of crazy that it’s the Rams with such a Covid surge. We pretty much had to win our last 6 games to have a chance for the playoffs, and this Rams game was going to be the hardest. We’ll just have to see how it turns out.

    I’ve actually been kind of enjoying watching the Hawks these past few weeks with such low expectations and RW’s return. Their offense, still not as schematically diverse and innovative as I’d like, has been better in certain ways, some getting the ball out quicker, some more TE usage, more use of the center of the field, etc…

    It would be fun to win out and squeak into the playoffs. Or at least still have the chance to do so a little longer. It’s not going to change any of our problems that will need to be addressed this off season. It just makes for having something to look forward to a little longer as a fan.

    • pdway

      I know what you mean. I was so incredibly frustrated and angry in those N.O. and Pittsburgh losses, it pretty much ruined my day.

      Once we crossed the not-gonna-make-the-playoffs line, after that disappointed dissipated, I realized that it can also be sort of relaxing to watch the Hawks play. Enjoyed the Niners win especially. Got to take the silver linings.

  14. Call Me AL

    So the Seahawks are currently fielding arguably their worst team in the last ten years and are in the midst of what can only be describe as a disastrous season, and there are people upset they can’t play the Rams as scheduled Sunday while said team is missing 25 players due to covid?

    What am I missing here, are we that desperate for a win against the Rams? Will a loss to the Rams knock us out of the playoff hunt? Must we win at all costs? I’m sorry I just don’t get it and I for one wouldn’t have any interest in watching the Seahawks beat any team missing 25 players. Under those circumstances it would be nothing more than a hollow victory.

    So give me the Rams at full strength, talkin shit and pissed off! Thats the team I want to see the Seahawks beat!!

    • Paul Cook

      Count me amongst those desperate for a win against the Rams. I’ll take it any way we can get it. LOL This would give us three wins in a row (however and against whomever), and then set us up for games against the Bears and Lions at home to get to five in a row before our season ending game against the Cards.

      And who knows? Maybe the Cards will have their playoff position set and choose to rest players. And if not, and we’re a playoff team with a win, what a more glorious way to make it in than by beating a division rival and one of the best teams in the league. In any event, such a game might well be as close to a playoff game as you can get.

      This Rams is the fulcrum game. We traditionally play bad against them, and game plan poorly for them, as cha aptly pointed out.

      • James Z

        Count me in as NOT desperate for a win. I would prefer to see the ‘Hawks with their best on the field against the best that the Rams have also on the field. How does it help the team to win by forfeit or on the field against a severely compromised team if come playoff time they get crushed by a superior team like they were last year by the Rams. I’m a fan, but not a fanatic…

        • Paul Cook

          Cool. I get that. But there is no right or wrong answer to this.

    • Peter

      Win or lose for me is irrelevant. There are a few points that are relevant:

      1. Hard to argue player safety when the league is going to add another shortened week to the schedule.

      2. Say this time we are in goes on and on does the league shift games forever? What is the amount of players necessary for a shift? I would like the league to clarify. Is it 10 or less players….game on? How few players can be out even if it means the team takes a loss?

      3. Depth. The winner of the superbowl is often associated with the strongest depth thst stays healthy longest. This is a two week protocol. Not mass injuries. Thus the rams could ostensibly field whatever they could, forfeit, or other….and….get right back into playoff seeding the following week. The league is giving a pass for something that isn’t as detrimental as losing players to sprains, strains, and other associated injuries.

      4. Finally. The NFL is basically saying that it doesn’t matter what your team does, go nuts, heck your better off doing nothing because we will just move your game around.

      • Scot04

        I’m fine with the games being moved. I do however believe the only teams benefiting are those who likely would have needed to forfeit or play short handed.
        The leagues said teams are required to have their teams ready to play at the time and place designated.
        3 teams were ready and 3 weren’t.
        I think the 3 who were ready should be compensated by the league with draft picks.
        Just seems like it would atleast be a good step.
        In situations like these I believe the teams that are ready; yet forced to move their schedule just to accommodate the team that wasn’t ready should get something positive from it.
        Might not be the perfect solution, but it’s something.

        • Peter

          In this instance moving the games is fine. What needs clarity is the policy moving forward.

          Here’s a what if: what if any of the six teams was slated to play on thursday? Tough. You play on tuesday and thursday? Or as the season winds down what if this was the final week or the first week of the playoffs where there are saturday games?

          That’s all.

          • Rscott412

            The league would move the Thursday game to Sunday

            • Peter

              Maybe. Except tv contracts and airing markets.

        • Big Mike

          Draft pick compensation is a great idea Scot

      • SemperFi Hawk

        I have a novel idea…how about treat COVID for otherwise healthy adults like the Flu. Yes, COVID has impacted people in a very negative way; however, data shows that COVID is not dangerous for otherwise healthy people with no co-morbidities. Just as the Flu is not dangerous for people with no co-morbidities. Let them play the damn game. This COVID nonsense has made the world go apoplectic.

        To prove my point, why is the NFL going to modify their testing requirements to focus on “unvaxxed” players and cease testing vaxxed players as regularly?

        • RugbyLock

          So true. They’re going to do that because having a bunch of “vaccinated” players testing positive for the Wuhan virus goes against the narrative that vaxed players are the good ones and unvaxed aren’t. I don’t recall if the NFL gives exemptions for players who now have natural immunity.

    • Easy Answers Hard Choices


  15. Rob Staton

    Lance Zierlein reveals three grades…

    Remember which site tagged Dameon Pierce as a second rounder last week?

    Most of draft media haven’t even mentioned his name.

    Stick with SDB…

    • cha


      Interesting grade on Cade Otton too. Almost the same scenario as Pierce, great profile but underused by his team.
      Since the dogs treated him like the Seahawks treat their TEs, we don’t have a real record of production to go off of. Testing will be critical but Lance gives him a nice grade.

      • Rob Staton

        Just so hard to grade Otton given what happened the last two years

        • Big Mike

          Good to see you back here Rob. Hope the family is ok.

        • Paul Cook

          Absolutely. The Pac 12’s Covid policy, his injuries, and his under-use-ment make him a very tough eval. But as someone whose seen everything I have about him, he’s worth a third round or a bit higer, IMHO.

    • Peter

      Agree w/ lance about 389 carries. Not sure the thought on limiting all the carries. I’m an outdated fool but i think RB is a rhythm position to really feel out a game.

      Really intrigued by Abraham Lucas and some praise worthy remarks but much lower draft value than you’ve been saying.

      Based on you sir, I am still leaning first round pick for him.

  16. cha

    Aaron Wilson
    DeAndre Hopkins placed on IR with a knee injury, Chase Edmonds activated from IR, Robert Alford placed on IR with a pectoral injury

  17. cha

    Aaron Wilson
    Rams activated from COVID-19 reserve, Odell Beckham Jr, Dont’e Deayon, Darrell Henderson, Justin Hollins, Brycen Hopkins, Alaric Jackson

    • MychestisBeastmode

      That’s not an insignificant list of names.

  18. TomLPDX

    Go Beavs! What an awesome start to this game!

  19. Robert Las Vegas r

    I was wondering Rob that the high second round pick of the Seahawks are more than likely to get that they decide to trade down.thats what they normally do isn’t it.

  20. Mike

    Watching mark glowinski, frank Clark, jarran reed, Malik McDowell, Quinton Jefferson, all have success elsewhere makes me thin the front office has had more success than some think.

    Russell Wilson is only been a top 10-15 level quarterback without his legs. And is terrible for offensive linemen to play with.

    RW is elite at making manipulating media. There’s a reason a lot of his teammates don’t enjoy him. Thoughts?

    • Hawks4life

      Haven’t seen Frank Clark have any success since leaving Seattle and Russ is still a too to QB at worst for me. My simple thoughts from this statement

      • Hawks4life

        Top 10*

      • Mike

        I think I mostly agree with you. I’m just saying russ/russ’s team seems to be good at pushing the narrative that he doesn’t have help. Maybe the reason is that he isn’t as good of quarterback as Brady, mahomes, rodgers. He’s about as good as a 10-11 win quarterback a year with an average roster.

    • Peter

      Not sure it’s on Wilson to resign players. Or in glowinski’s case play him on the correct side of the line.

      I’m working on an end of the season data based post about Wilson and where he ranks.

      Spoiler. Wins to losses per games played, td/int, completion percentage, and several other metrics Wilson over two years is shaping up to be a top six qb.

      Over five years he’s top 4.

      Over his first 10…’s shaping up to be top two between he and Rodgers. With Rodgers having only slightly better stats (but not much better) but Wilson playing more and winning more.

      • Big Mike

        Nice but you’ll never convince the Wilson haters, several of which were screaming rather loudly on this blog claiming Geno would be better, etc.

        • Peter

          It’s in someways an exercise for me. You hear something enough and you start thinking is it true? Does he suck?

          I know I’m not changing minds. Ha! If only life was that easy…..

          But not a top ten……unreal…’s gonna hurt people’s brains but over 20 years sort of the modern period starting with Peyton Manning…..even if russ bored us to tears with 10-11 wins 35 td- 7ish interceptions for just spit ballin here, six more seasons. That will make him a top three QB over a 25 year span.

          • Big Mike

            Unreal indeed my friend

    • swedenhawk

      Mike Salk made a similar argument on last week’s Brock & Salk podcast. I’d still counter that the Seahawks’ front office and coaching staff have not adequately supported Russ in recent years.

      • Mike

        My point is that he is good not great. For some reason he had gotten the media to believe he is great. It’s why the Lob had an issue with him. Lob knew they were the primary reason they were going to super bowls.

        Russell Wilson, Ben rothlisberger, matt Ryan, dak presscott. That is where russ belongs. Good 10 win, super bowl caliber quarterbacks with good teams.

        He’s not Brady, rodgers, Mahomes, Manning, elway, rodgers, Montana. He just isn’t in that category as much as Seattle Fans want him to be. I think Pete/John know this. He just acts like he is and is incapable of responsibility on his own part.

        I know I am being a bit of a devils advocate here it just annoys me that russ never gets any blame even though he gets paid like a star, acts like a star, and says he wants to be an all time great.

        • swedenhawk

          That’s more or less Salk’s point as well: Russ has misjudged his abilities and hasn’t earned the influence over the roster that he seeks. Yet, he is one of the winningest QBs in his first 10 seasons in NFL history, and is second only to Peyton Manning in TDs during that span. Stats like these suggest that Russell could be one of the all-time greats if he were adequately supported. I tend to agree.

          • Big Mike

            And what would he be with a good o-line…………..oh wait, all tha

            • Big Mike

              oh wait, all that’s his fault despite what Curtis showed in his preview post, despite having utter trash at Center since Unger left and thus little chance to step up in the pocket, despite going through long periods with a shit running game cuz this front office passes on the Taylors and Chubbs of the world in favor of guys that get hurt, and so on and so forth………………..
              How was Rodgers when he had poor roster around him? 6-10 I do believe

              • swedenhawk

                just to clarify, I think Wilson is already a HOF QB. I’d be thrilled to see how great he could be working with a capable o-line and a top offensive mind.

        • Rob Staton

          I can’t take anyone saying Wilson is ‘good not great’ seriously.

          I haven’t been hoodwinked either. I’ve just watched this team, written about this team, analysed this team for years.

          The revisionist thinking surrounding Wilson in some quarters these days is staggering

          • Big Mike

            It’s utter stupidity

            • Norman

              I think Mike is entitled to his opinion without needing to be called stupid.

              • Rob Staton

                Asserting that Wilson is ‘good not great’ and has conned everyone through the media into thinking he’s better than he is… that’s a take that can and will be challenged robustly

                • Norman

                  Okay? Is calling someone’s opinion “utter stupidity” truly challenging the argument? Seems to just be attacking the person, no actual rebuttal of the argument.

                  • Rob Staton

                    I challenged the opinion, he replied to my challenge.

                    I don’t see it as a personal attack. I think it was an outrageous suggestion and BM has responded how he sees fit, calling the take stupid, not the person who said it.

                  • Big Mike

                    Norman: Rob’s comment was “in some quarters”. That implies a group of people. I think as Rob put it, the “revisionist thinking” of all of those people is more than staggering, it’s utter stupidity. Perhaps these people actually enjoyed the John Friesz, Kelly Stouffer, Rick Mirer, Dan McGwire, etc. years. I did not. Many of those same people were screaming to the heavens that Geno was going to this that and the other thing better than Russ. He did not.

                    As for claiming the media has propped Russ up as great when he’s only good, I find that an absolutely inane supposition..

        • Peter

          I’ve already done this 100 ways from sunday. You are using “gut feelings.” Not facts.

          Let’s break it down. First Elway. Totally different eras. But actually Wilson is the better QB even post LOB. Better in every metric besides, “i just feel elway is/was better.”

          Go look at Mahomes stats. I am so freaking tired of hearing mahomes’ name. Yes i get it he had that crazy season. And it was amazing. Go really parse his stats. Turns out they aren’t much better than Wilson. Wilson is good only because the LOB but Mahomes is ‘elevating’ his team? The one as stacked as the ’12-’14 seahawks. and not to be a jerk about it but Mahomes gets to be better than Wilson when he has 10 (!!! ) seasons better than Wilson.

          Wilson already started out the gate betterthan Manning rookie TD record plus dudn’t turn it over once per every TD.

          This is getting dopey

          • Big Mike

            “dopey” is being kind

      • Ok

        Salk is on one though. Mike Salk made some off handed comments re: Russell’s slow start after the injury, likening Wilson, to Lattimer, as in the fictional player from the movie ‘The Program’. It was just a quick little snipe, but something along the lines of: ‘oh is it like in The Program, where Lattimer hadn’t gotten his juice (steroid injections) and is all weak’ (very loosely paraphrased, this was from several weeks back). My point is, Salk has a clear agenda. More recently Mike ‘wondered’ if it was like parable of the frog and the scorpion, with poor ole coach Carroll playing the trusting frog, and players like Earl, Sherm, others, and now Wilson, stinging him in the back…it is so ham-fisted. Like Salk, bro, we get it: you have a weekly slobber fest with the coach, you want to protect that, you are using your position as an entertainer to advocate for that. Craven.
        The comments about Russ and the roids, he’s made at least two, that I’ve heard, and I just drive around listening to the show (now far less Brock is great, Salk…no)intermittently. I wouldn’t at be surprised if the NFL turns an eye to steroid use, from the qbs. They know that the game runs thru them and it’s imperative to the quality of the product. That wasn’t what was being discussed.
        Salk is a rhymes with banker that is sooooo into the access to Pete Carroll that he will say whatever to spin things in that direction. Gross.

        • Mike

          Steroid comments are really dumb, don’t know why Salk would bring that up.

          I think the best comparison to Russell Wilson is someone like Ben roethlisberger. Ben actually has a better winning percentage, more Super Bowls.

          Wilson is better at not turning the ball over and has a higher passer rating as a result. Big Ben is asked to throw more often and has more yards, touchdowns, and int as a result.

          Rothlisberger’s play started to dip at age 34-35. Steelers would have been smart to trade him prior to the decline. Seahawks should consider doing the same with Russell.

          • Rob Staton

            Approaching age 37, Roethlisberger had a 5129 yard season with 34 passing touchdowns (his career high) and a QBR of 69.6.

            If you’re going to assert something, at least do us all a favour of making sure it’s factually correct before posting.

            And that’s before we even get into the flimsy comparison. Wilson and Roethlisberger are not similar players in the slightest. Wilson literally only missed a game through injury in his entire career, college or pro, this season. And it was a freak finger injury thanks to Aaron Donald. Ben has missed at least one game in the majority of his seasons in the NFL.

            We could easily say the Packers should’ve traded Rodgers when he was 34. They’d be better for it. That would’ve proven to be a load of old bollocks.

            So yeah — let’s stop with this now.

          • Peter

            By percentage of games played roethlisberger had more passing attempts.

            But by actual passing attempts of which Wilson had nearly 300 more than Big Big, Wilson is miles ahead of him in TO ratio.

            Ben: 4346 attempts to 219 tds and 112 interceptions

            Wilson: 4622 attempts to 283 tds and 85 interceptions

            Wilson’s worst year. This one. Will be better than four of Roethlisberger’s worst ones. And might still be better than Five of Roethlisberger’s worst seasons in this first ten years.

            Mike it almost seems like you just do not like Wilson. And you just want to roll the dice with a rookie contract when Wilson is one of two QB’s thus far to win a Superbowl in 10 years on a rookie contract. Just because seattle did it once with a generational talent it is not as easy as people think. Josh Allen is great but he did not do it. Lamar Jackson physically can not do it. Murray and Herbert have two seasons to pull it off and then they get paid.

            • Rob Staton

              There’s a lot of people out there deciding what their opinion is, then trying to build an argument around it.

              • Mike

                Big Ben’s win percentage is higher than Wilson’s plus 2 Super Bowls versus 1.

                Respectfully, we can agree to disagree. I don’t think the discussion is “idiotic” or “dopey”. But cheers I and happy holidays to everyone I enjoy the lively debate! Thanks for the continued hawks content!

                • Rob Staton

                  Whether it was dopey or idiotic or not is up for other people to decide. I would certainly say though that your argument was poorly argued, not fleshed out and decidedly lacking.

                • Peter

                  Wilson’s current win percentage is 50% and can climb a few percentage points.

                  Ben at the same point: 49.45%

                  Wilson only has two seasons sub 10 wins.

                  Ben: six seasons

                  I do not think it is anything from idiotic to dopey to not like Wilson. That’s any fans call. And perhaps you are right that trading Wilson could be the best move.

                  But you started with that he is not a top 10-15 qb. Almost like click bait. And thus far in his career just based on stats he can control and wins which goes for and against him there are two qb’s at ten years who are better than him. Brady and Rodgers. When you look at younger qb’s you can add mahomes. That makes him top four.

                  As for big Ben, if Seattle had wanted to build a top ten defense the last five years they could have like the steelers did. They just didn’t think it necessary.

            • Mike

              So you disagree that rothlisberger and Wilson are reasonable comparisons?

              But then you talk about winning Super Bowls:
              Ben won one on a rookie contract and not on his rookie contract. His win percentage is higher.

              I appreciate you agreeing with me even though you didn’t mean too 😘

              • Rob Staton

                Mike, a gentle warning, but you are edging close to trolling. Ignoring well reasoned counters to your points and trying to be clever on other points such as this.

                Not a big fan of this strategy.

              • Peter

                I don’t even think it’s trolling.

                I wrote this whole break down based on Wilson’s ten years compared to everyone else’s first ten years.

                Yep. Ben won on his rookie contract. But in his first ten years he was never the qb Wilson is.

                Not totally sure why you think i agree when i don’t. I guess I need to be more clear. Roethlisberger sucked and was super mediocre and played with a top ten defense for his first ten seasons. Wilson has been and still may be great and got to deal with four seasons of a 20th and lower ranked defense and still won more games.

                Again. If you don’t like Wilson and hope everyone is traded. Cool. But the FO that brought you the 28th ranked defense this year isn’t building a winner anytime soon.

                • Mike

                  Not trolling. I enjoy the discussion when name calling doesn’t happen.

                  Cheers guys! Always enjoy the blog and especially the draft info, I think it’s top notch for Seahawks draft coverage.

                  • Rob Staton

                    Let’s be right though, saying an opinion is idiotic and then explaining why is not name calling. Your opinion was attacked by another commenter, not you personally.

                    And your opinions have been ‘out there’ and you’ve ignored all of the counters made to you.

  21. bmseattle


    Beating a dead horse, but man… *exactly* the what the Seahawks need at RB.
    He wanted us… we didn’t want him.

    • Rob Staton

      Taking Jordyn Brooks instead of Taylor pisses me off just as much as the Chubb and TJ Watt situations

      • Big Mike

        It pisses me off even more because at that point it was obvious Carson and Penny couldn’t stay healthy and because we took a guy at a position that needed less investment, not more investment and because we’ve played that guy out of position and because Taylor actually begged the Hawks to take him

      • Bmseattle

        I wonder if Pete and John regret not taking Taylor just like they regret not taking Chubb.

        At some point, when self evaluating, and these “regrets” start piling up, they have to conclude that they’ve massively botched the roster construction of this team, right?

        If I was John, I’d be ashamed of this current roster.

        • Rob Staton

          Time for someone else to have a go

    • Scot04

      I’m sure Taylor plenty happy starting and playing behind that O-line.
      Plus with PC we might find him backing up Penny & Collins.
      I’m hoping we get change at the top who can build around RW & get a HC who will put players in positions where they can best succeed.
      Until then I’m not optimistic about any rookies coming in and making an impact.
      Lewis did at RG, so instead of getting a 2nd year there to build on; he gets rewarded by being moved to LG.
      Tough to figure out many of the decisions over the last several years.

      • cha

        I’m sure Taylor plenty happy starting and playing behind that O-line.
        Plus with PC we might find him backing up Penny & Collins.

        Exactly. Not taking Taylor (or Chubb) is a symptom of the whole process which is lacking.

        Indy and Cleveland have serious offensive lines and coaches who know how to utilize them.

        Seattle has neither of those things.

        That’s not to say those runners would be busts in Seattle. But the numbers and effect they have on their teams, I can guarantee you could not cut + paste them onto the Seahawks if they’d drafted them.

        • Rob Staton

          I just can’t believe that a coach who is so clear in what he wants to be, has done such a bloody awful, disgusting job building the trenches and running game.

          • cha

            Is he clear? I would argue he’s so far off the mark, he’s not even getting his messaging right.

            The only time he talks about the run game is to either update us on the latest banged up guy on the roster, or to get a dig in at fans “I know the fans hate it when we talk about running but that is how you win games.”

            The only time he talks about the defensive line is to say how they’re so good in run defense (although they’re 21st overall) as a way to deflect that the pass rush is pitiful. He even admitted on Monday that the guys they picked up and give the majority of DL snaps to are better run defenders than pass rushers. And the run defense is middling at best!

            And for all the talk of ‘being the bully’ that fans like to repeat, when was the last time Pete said that? Or even talked about being physical? Or controlling the LOS?

            He talks about being ‘pumped and jacked’ a lot. That’s not the same. Half the time it is to rationalize why a player took a stupid penalty or missed a key play.

  22. swedenhawk

    He currently leads the league in rushing yards (1518), touchdowns (17) and runs over 20 yards (11). And it’s not even close.

  23. swedenhawk

    *meant as a response to bmseattle

  24. Rob Staton

    David Mills looks like he has a future

    Javonte Williams is class

    Jonathan Taylor… no words needed


    • McZ

      The J-Train! Heartbreaking.

  25. Norman

    GEEZ, Cardinals getting absolutely slapped by arguably the worst roster in the NFL in the Lions!

    • Rob Staton

      A lot of people have assumed we’ll beat Detroit.

      I don’t think anyone should assume that.

    • Mick

      Bad result for us, we’d be better off with Arizona playing without anything at stake against us.

      • Rob Staton

        Do you really think there’s going to be anything at stake for us????

        • Paul Cook

          Well, our not making the playoffs is not quite math yet. So there’s that. 🙂

    • Big Mike

      So then, late season Cardinals swoon?

  26. Paul Cook

    Damn. I want a Seahawks game today.

    • Peter

      I’m missing the Rob and Robbie podcast

  27. Big Mike

    So does anyone know if a team has had the first overall pick in the draft 2 years in a row? I ask because with Detroit winning and Jax losing at he moment, if those games ended that way I believe Jax would be sitting with the number one choice. I don’t believe it’s ever happened but I’m no way sure about that.

    • cha

      I know for sure Tampa did it their first two years of expansion. The ‘new’ Cleveland Browns their first two years of expansion too.

      I think Cincinnati did it also.

      • Big Mike

        Ok thanks cha.

      • Big Mike

        I should’ve known Tampa cuz they won the first choice over Seattle in a coin flip when both came into the league in ’76.

  28. cha

    Well that’s just great.

    Ian Rapoport
    The #Seahawks put 6 players on the reserve/COVID-19 list, giving them eight total. They are: CB D.J. Reed, RT Brandon Shell, RB Travis Homer, DE Kerry Hyder Jr., and practice squaders Pier-Olivier Lestage and Mike Jackson. Previously, Tyler Lockett and Alex Collins were on it.

    • bmseattle

      By the time the game gets here, the Seahawks will have more players on the covid list than the Rams, at this rate.
      Think they’ll postpone the game again? 😉

      • TomLPDX

        Hell no they won’t postpone the game! They wouldn’t move the Chicago game one day, for player safety, so there is no way they would reschedule this game.

    • Big Mike

      So why does it seem like a bunch of their guys will be back and a bunch of ours will be out?
      “Tough titles Seahawks”

      • TomLPDX

        So the Rams can win hands down.

        • TheOtherJordan

          League is gonna protect LA whenever they get a chance. Want that media market as deep in the playoffs as they can.

          • Big Mike

            Like their precious stealers then.

  29. pdway

    more dead horse beating…but this Ravens back-up QB is sure a lot more interesting of a player (both present and future) than Geno.

  30. Rob Staton


    All teams who would’ve desperately wished they had someone like Russell Wilson at various points today

    • Big Mike

      Likely you’ll say that about the Saints several times tonight too.
      Maybe both the Browns and the Raiders tomorrow as well.

  31. Scot04

    With the new rules for vaccinated players isn’t it possible Lockett & Reed could be back if they test negative tomorrow?

    • Rob Staton


  32. JimQ

    Overlooked? Under-valued, or just totally under-appreciated? Round 7/UDFA projections? In my book, he’s at the very least a Rd-5 pick, if not a round or two higher.

    WR-Jerreth Stearns, W. Kentucky, after his bowl game is currently #1 in FBS for receiving yards with 1902-yds. (by 198-yds, over #2), tied for #1 with 17-TD’s, #1 in receptions per game (by 2.2 receptions over #2) and #1 in receiving yards per game (13.1-yds. per game over #2.) with other major bowl games still pending.

    Don’t get me started on QB-Zappe, I’m a believer after watching two all-time NCAA passing records being set. Any team that drafts QB-Zappe –should– want to draft WR-Stearns as well because they are best friends with +++ chemistry and years of experience together, that should help a rookie QB show his stuff better & much faster.

    • Peter

      Big believer in taking two players from the same team.

      • JimQ

        I believe the QB-Zappe/WR-Sterns combo have hooked up together for 370 receptions, 3,873-yards & 35-TD’s over their *3* yrs. together (1 in FBS & 2 in FCS). pretty Impressive huh?

    • GoHawks5151

      Stearns looked fantastic in the game. He touched the ball in a bunch of ways. What class is he? Does he get a senior bowl invite? Maybe a guy who blows up like Eskridge.

      TE Teagan Quitoriano from Oregon State declared today. He is a plus blocker and was crucial to the outside zone success the Beavs had this year. Pretty good coming across on trap and wham’s as well. Well sized at 6-6, 260. Good athlete, more in the classic TE mold. Benefitted from play action a lot but had his share of plays down the seam. Late rd guy

      • JimQ

        Sorry, I miss-spelled his name, it’s Sterns. Sterns is a Junior, but he just declared, see below. I forgot to mention, I was a big advocate of Tyler Lockett and included him in many a personal mock as well as posts. Lockett seems to have turned out pretty well & NOW I’m advocating Sterns for very similar reasons.

  33. Paul Cook

    I get to root for Brady and the Bucs tonight over the Saints. Drop those Saints down.

  34. Hawks4life

    You can clearly see why the Bucs went after Fournette, Ronald Jones is afraid of contact, I’ve lost count how many times he runs out of bounds instead of lowering the shoulder for a crucial 1st down.

  35. cha

    Dennis Allen is interviewing for some jobs tonight.

  36. TheOtherJordan

    George Fant seems to be doing pretty well for the Jets.

    • Peter

      Mark Glowinski helping Jonathan Taylor lead the nfl as a RB says “hi!”

    • Peter

      This is a recurring and slightly maddening process in Seattle. Maybe George Fant is getting overpaid by the Jets. I do not think Glowinski is getting overpaid by the Colts. But more importantly consistency is a very important variable with oline. It’s hard to watch the NFL’s worst or near worst rushing attack to save some bucks on the oline when the team already had two evident starters that were already worked into the system.

      Imagine having a right side shored up with the goal of this draft of getting the best center you can get…..?

  37. Poli

    I’m somewhat of a football noob compared to most here, and haven’t been around for Wilson’s whole career, so was wondering if Wilson has struggled against the cover 2 for his whole career or has it just been the past year or two?

    Can’t really find any career stats of this, so any help is appreciated….

    • 12th chuck

      a lot has to do with how well you can run the ball, and to be honest, this is the worst o line he has had protecting him

    • cha

      I’m no X’s and O’s expert but this particular thought thread of RW having trouble with Cover-2 is very gray. It’s not a matter of ‘he is good against it or he isn’t.’

      Are there times he is too focused on deep throws to the exclusion of the more readily available throws in the middle of the field? Yes, most certainly there are.

      Is it all on RW when a team runs Cover-2 and the offense doesn’t move the ball well? No, it most certainly is not.

      A prime example is Week Five last year vs Minnesota.

      The Vikings came into the game with banged-up corners vs a red-hot Seahawks offense. It was obvious they were going to run a fair amount of Cover-2.

      They did, and the offense struggled to get into gear. The tight ends only got 1 target each (Dissly and Olsen) and had huge gains.

      Could RW have targeted those guys better? Sure. Olsen had 45 snaps and Dissly 20. But they only got one target each.

      But what other game factors effected the offense’s ability to move the ball?

      -Minnesota won the time of possession game by 19 minutes. Nineteen! Hard for any offense to diagnose a defense with only 20 minutes of possession the whole game.

      -The running game was weak against a defense running deep safeties. 66 yards and three first downs from the RBs. RW was the leading rusher with 58 yards.

      -Pete Carroll shackled the offense at times (a run play on 3rd and 22 to concede a series and then selecting to pooch punt instead of try a 54 FG on a rainy night). When the game was on the line and he took the shackles off, RW was freer to create and give the WRs time to uncover with his feet.

      So it’s a mixed bag. RW could do better against Cover-2, sure. But he frequently does not get support from the defense, the run game, or the offensive line. That’s a lot of fronts to be fighting a war on, and some things are going to fall by the wayside.

      -RW was sacked 4 times and pressured 13 times, or 31.7% of plays.

      • AlaskaHawk

        Your right, Russell isn’t getting a lot of support. You know what he could do? Step back and let that ball fly in under 3 seconds. Either to a receiver or out of bounds. Stop waiting around for the long pass and throw it. If no one is open, throw it away. Over and over again. Any complaints from the coach, tell them to design pass plays with more quick openings. Tell them to find receivers that can get open. Whatever. Just step back and heave it on time. Let the chips fall where they will.

        And next year insist on them finding a premium running back and building up the offensive line.

        • Rob Staton

          I’m sure this plan won’t just lead to numerous ridiculous throwaways, incompletions, interceptions and inaccurate throws…

      • Poli

        Wow thanks for the great response below your great week 15 post. Always a pleasure to read your stuff (and Rob’s) and get schooled.

  38. Peter

    Superbowl winning QB’s -or- defense wins championships:

    Since 2000, Six rookie (contract) QB’s have one the superbowl. Average defensive rank: 7.6th

    In that time six free Agent QB’s have also one the superbowl. Average defensive rank: 6th

    Five different QB’s have won on veteran contracts with the team that drafted them including three of the rookie winners. Average defensive rank: 7.7th

    16 winners had a top 10 defensive.

    11 winners had the chance to play with a top 5 defense.

    The point of this is to illustrate that yes you can win with a cheap rookie contract but you are just as likely to win with a more expensive veteran Free Agent and almost as likely to win with your own drafted QB that is expensive. You are not better off with a cheap rookie that you can build around unless you can actually build around them.

    As well you can have a spendy veteran such as Roethlisberger, Rodgers, and Brady who had defenses around them ranked: 1st, 2nd, and for Brady average rank of 4th.

  39. AlaskaHawk

    One important thing I learned on Sunday – any team with the will and ability can beat any other team, no matter how good that other teams record.

    All it takes is the will and effort to grind it out. So long Cardinals, Patriots and Buccaneers.

    • Rob Staton

      Well, it also takes game planning, scheming, talent and opponents having an off day.

      • Big Mike

        In the NFL, if you have an off day, you often lose. The league is just too even in terms of talent to usually survive playing like crap.

  40. Rob Staton

    Jake Heaps here, telling it how it is:

    Fantastic — and he’s absolutely right

    • Peter

      Jake saying the quiet part outloud with his fresh eyes comments.

      Trade Wilson if need be. Sure would be interesting for this site. I don’t want that by the way.

      But the people making the decisions the last few years need to be moved on from.

    • cha

      Spot on

      • Big Mike

        Yep, and all the same things we’ve been saying for months (or more) now. Carroll and Schneider must go, otherwise there will be nothing but more band-aids

        • BobbyK

          They’ve become Tim Ruskell in his last years. Band-aids to hide major problems. Anyone remember the year they paid Grant and Russell all that money and neither was particularly good. Russell actually sucked. But he didn’t care, he’d bring in Edge James, TJ Duckett, and Julius Jones and thought he was the man. He was a moron. Just like the recent years of Pete Carroll and John Schneider. At least Ruskell left Pete and John two high first round picks, whereas Carroll and Schneider have f’ed us all over without a singular first round pick to start building from again. Total BS.

          • Tomas

            Wish we could trade Carroll and JS to Jacksonville …

          • Rob Staton


    • RugbyLock

      I guess there is someone on 710 worth listening to…

  41. Paul Cook

    I don’t buy it. I want to win out and squeak into the playoffs in some sort of total-odds-against-crazy-way. I never want to lose. And I don’t think that should change anything in terms of the need to make significant changes with the franchise going forward.

    If it does change things in that regard, then our ownership group is not that smart and is not paying attention closely and we deserve what we get then.

    Just MO.

    • Paul Cook

      PS> I won’t say I never want to lose. I guess if we were completely out of it near the end of the season and some great draft pick was possible with a loss…yeah, then I could clearly see the want and value of a loss.

      • Peter

        Paul I hear ya. And so many times out of 100 i’d be right there with you. But pete is gonna pete. As a fan I can’t with the lame drama from Wilson and the bad drafting. I need a resolution to whatever future decision needs to happen.

        If I honestly thought Seattle could beat teams with winning records and the losses were 100% just on Wilson’s injury that would be one thing. But this run game sucks. The defense has miraculously kept scoring low while being atrocious everywhere else. And Wilson is going to have an exceedingly banal season.

        • Paul Cook

          I agree with everyone about our poor running game, our lack of proper attention to the OL, our failures to emphasize the DL and pass rush, our poor drafts in recent years, and, of course, what’s now become an abomination of a trade.

          My point being…is our ownership group really that stupid/uninformed/ignorant (choose your adjectives) that they don’t know that changes must be made regardless of how this season ends?

          Just for kicks, if we win out and squeak into the playoffs, or just win out and finish 9-8, it’s not going to be because of PC and JS. It’s going to be because RW played fantastic, out D played average or just above so, and our offense was properly prepared game plan wise.

          It ain;t going to be because of PC.

          • Rob Staton

            I want change

            I vote for whatever ensures change happens

            So that this team can hopefully go back to being a contender one day and not needing to try and somehow squeeze into the playoffs after starting 3-8

            And let’s be right here

            Even if they win out, I doubt they make the playoffs because of the tiebreakers

            • Ok

              Let’s just say the Hawks win out, and get into the playoffs (not going to happen). Does anyone believe they will win one playoff game? I do not. So what is the point here? (I’m not asking that question of anyone present in the comment section). A trip to a first round loss in the playoffs, by miracle…not good enough.
              Rob is correct, time for change.
              My preference would be no Carroll, no Schnieder.

          • Big Mike

            “My point being…is our ownership group really that stupid/uninformed/ignorant (choose your adjectives) that they don’t know that changes must be made regardless of how this season ends?”

            That is indeed the $64,000 question Paul. None of us knows, but we’re gonna find out pretty damned soon.

            • Rob Staton

              You could argue… it’s best not to leave it to chance

              • Paul Cook

                My feeling is that if we win out it’s going to be so clearly because of RW more than anything else that it’s not going going to change the equation. I don’t think the PC/RW thing is simply going to pass like a kidney stone. I think you could make the argument that the Hawks winning out largely because of RW would give him the upper hand over PC in an either/or scenario.

                But we’ll see. I understand the contrary argument.

  42. no frickin clue

    Under the category of “posts that absolutely won’t age well”, let’s consider the biggest drivers of the Hawks’ possible stretch run to the playoffs!

    I’ll assume the Vikes win their game over the Bears (currently up 17-3), and further assume that the Hawks win their next 3 games over the Rams, Bears and Lions, respectively, to get to 8-8 on the season before they finish against the Cardinals in Week 18. Why only the next 3 games? Because I’m using the model developed by the folks over at and messing around with it, and that’s as far as they go.

    If all of the above happen, the Hawks’ chances of getting into the playoffs of now…drumroll please….9%.

    However it takes only EIGHT other important results to go in the right ways to push the Hawks’ odds of success to 48% heading into Week 18, which if my math is correct is almost a 50-50 chance.

    So what has to happen? Ranked in order from ‘sure, could happen’, to ‘oh please’, these are:

    1. Vikes lose to the Rams in Week 16
    2. Vikes lose to the Pack in Week 17
    3. WFT loses to Dallas in Week 16
    4. Niners lose to Titans in Week 16
    5. Saints lose to the Dolphins in Week 16
    6. Saints lose to the Panthers in Week 17
    7. Eagles lose to the Giants in Week 16
    8. Eagles and WFT tie in Week 15

    (that last one yields an 8% move in Seattle’s favor, so if either team wins in Week 15, but everything else happened, Seattle’s chances heading into Week 18 are approx. 40%).

    Finally, I have a brand new bottle of Bulleit bourbon that will give me something to enjoy while I watch the Rams put the final nail in the coffin on this desultory, floundering, Bataan Death March of a season.

    Happy holidays to all and best wishes for a better 2022.

    • Peter

      Great work. I can pretty easily guess the games that aren’t going to msterialize for seattle.

      Excellent xall on the bulleit smooth sailing to the end of this nonsense of a season

  43. 12th chuck

    I think it is safe to say, that the bears can be crossed off any trade destination

    • TheOtherJordan

      No matter what happens, at least we’re not Bears fans. Just ugly.

    • Hawks4life

      Yeah it’s an extremely embarrassing game by them, how many chances have they had to keep themselves close? 20?

    • Rob Staton

      They were anyway

      They don’t have any picks

  44. cha

    Brock providing color for the Seahawks game.


    • MychestisBeastmode

      That’s a good thing! 👍

  45. Big Mike

    Bless Austin and Sidney Jones your starting corners today. Cooper Kupp is drooling so heavily he’s having to double his water intake to keep from getting dehydrated.

    • Peter

      Going to be real interesting to see if the Seahawks and the top 5 defense in points allowed is a mirage vs. The rams and their top 5 in points scored.

      Will penny put two games together on his resume?

      Will Seattle keep with the long develping plays or try what they did recently and run a modified west coast style offense?

      Will seattle stop Kupp? Or will they let him give us a little of that George Kittle razzle dazzle and ball out for nearly 200 yards?

      • Peter

        Will salk spend all day tomorrow talking about the dozen or so things that have to happen for seattle to get to the playoffs?

        • Peter

          Or. Perhaps the “highlight,” of the season….maybe pete throws Wilson under the bus after a loss by saying “the throws were there,” while probably true completely hides the part that the proponent of run the rock football fielded a team with 34 yards on the ground including a team leading 16 yards by the QB.

        • cha

          Will salk spend all day tomorrow talking about the dozen or so things that have to happen for seattle to get to the playoffs?

          Calling my shot now…a loss closes the playoff door so the conversation will shift quickly to a commentary on the season and 2022. It’ll be about all the injuries to RW and Jamal Adams and Carson and Penny, and COVID issues as the reason, and how awesome the defense has been, and why Pete Carroll should just stay the course because he’s a positive motivator and this season is just a blip. Maybe a dash of ‘screwed by the NFL’ talk with the game postponement.

  46. Paul Cook

    One thing you can say about the NFL this year is that good teams get picked off by lesser teams seemingly every week.

    • 12th chuck

      lets hope that happens again against the rams

    • Tomas

      Von Miller just activated for the Rams. I don’t think they really need him, but it surely doesn’t help Hawk’s cause. It would help if we had an OL. Russ is in for it, I fear, and no chance of miraculous completions to Lockett. Unless Penney has transformed into Eric Dickerson I see no hope for the offense. All the 79O radio talk about “winning out” ends tonight, along with the illusion that our defense is actually good – admittedly, DJ Reed’s absence hurts. My reluctant prediction: Rams 33 Hawks 13.

      • Rob Staton

        Not sure on a score but I’m anticipating a beating tonight

        • DriveByPoster

          All common sense suggests a Rams win but I am going to go with the inexorably logic of sports fandom & say that the Seahawks squeak out a narrow win tonight. Why? Because it’s the hope that kills you! Then next week they get utterly crushed by one of Russ’ teams, the Bears. True believers will then all claim it is the fault of the NFL for allowing the Rams a couple of days get their players off the COVID list just as the ‘hawks players are going onto it & then making them play again on a short week.

          Also I note that cha, who is normally so good on his analysis, completely failed to mention the NFL fixtures arranger in his watch points this week. Shame on you Curtis! Please try harder next time.

          Now I am going to sit back & watch the Famous Potato Bowl as a little pre-game apperatif Have a good evening all!

  47. Paul Cook

    I wonder if we’re going to get a a Super Bowl One rematch this year between Green Bay and Kansas City?

    • Peter

      Wouldn’t count out the patriots. And to keep it really gross and unwatchable I would put Dallas in there.

      • Paul Cook

        Belichick is something else. Considering the parity structure of the NFL, it’s hard to come up with a coach in any major team sport that exists in his rarefied air. He was even a great defensive mind with those first two Giant Super Bowl teams.

        How did the Cowboys ever get that “America’s team” moniker?

        • TomLPDX

          Coach Landry and Roger Staubach had a lot to do with that, along with a bunch of other awesome players on both sides of the ball.

        • Peter

          Imagine the ridiculous symmetry if brady won last year only to have belichik ein this year?

        • Big Mike

          And now a bunch of douchebag TV execs, sports talk show hosts and fans still continue to pretend they’re a top NFL franchise when they’ve clearly been irrelevant for 25 years. The slobbering over the cowpukes is perhaps the most annoying thing in American sports.

  48. cha

    Jason Puckett
    For all the “Hugh Millen hates Jamal Adams and you guys don’t get it, he’s really good in coverage because I’m a junior all-22 watcher.” Lawyer Milloy w/

    yesterday. Said the exact thing as Hugh. Says he can’t cover and should be a LB

    Talk starts at 11:45

    ‘The good players can cover and be in the box’

    Other than the comments above, Milloy says he should be moved to LB and when asked if Norton would ever just give in and do it, Milloy says no, he’ll have to change teams to be a pure LB type.

    Also said if Adams can’t or won’t make the switch, he’ll be out of the league. Says he can be good in coverage but he isn’t now.

    • James Cr.

      What I don’t get is how did JA have a PFF coverage grade of 89.6 in 2018 and 87.5 in 2019, and now he can’t cover anymore? Bizarre.

      • cha

        The 4-D chess people would have you believe that PFF grades on coverage are dubious, and Adams is a unicorn that cannot be graded because of how much the Seahawks ask him to do.

        It’s a profoundly positive effect on the defense that only the smartest, most discerning people can see. Those of us plebs that expect an investment of two first round picks and $70million to yield actual results you can see with your own two eyes are down on this trade because our All-22 palette isn’t as refined as theirs.

        • Big Mike

          DeSean Jackson thinks he can’t cover as well.

        • Rob Staton


        • James Cr.

          I wonder if PC and JS will ever admit to this trade being a massive mistake. Maybe one day when all is said and done.

          • Big Mike

            <0.5% chance

            • RugbyLock

              I think you’re being generous Mike

        • BobbyK

          We’re fans and we don’t know everything, but for them to take something so blatantly false (saying Jamal Adams is good) and keep spinning that lie to us is an insult. He’s not good. He’s definitely not great. We can tell. You don’t have to be an expert to know he isn’t worth close to what we gave up to get him, yet they keep telling us how we don’t know. I know we’re 5-8 and that isn’t good but I’m sure comPete is whining behind closed doors that we “could/should” be 10-3 without ever acknowledging the fact that they easily could/should have been 8-8 last year, too. But we’re too dumb to know anything.

  49. cha

    Brady Henderson
    Hearing it’s looking unlikely that WR Tyler Lockett will be activated off the COVID-19 list in time for tonight’s game against the Rams. He’s one of nine Seahawks on the list. The deadline to activate those players for this game is 1 p.m.

    • TomLPDX

      I just came here to ask that exact question. Was hoping Tyler would be back. I see the Rams activated Von Miller for today’s game. Higbee still out along with the start right O line.

  50. Winston

    Albert Breer 1. Doesn’t see Daniel Jones back with the #Giants and 2. Says Russell Wilson will be the team’s next QB. Despite the massive draft haul it will take, it’s an idea I’ve been warming up to. They have the LT in place. Solid D. And skill players. It’s hard to find QBs.— Dan Schneier (@DanSchneierNFL) December 21, 2021

    Apparently on Albert Breer’s live MNF halftime video feed, he was asked if Daniel Jones would be the Giants QB in 2022. He said no and that Russell will be the Giants QB in 2022. Wonder what the Giants would give up aside from the three first rounders it would take to start the conversation. Couldn’t imagine them wanting to move their LT Andrew Thomas. Maybe Ojulari?

    • Rob Staton

      I think this is a very strong possibility

      NYG has become a PR disaster, on top of the product on the field being awful. The owner and the powers that be need a positive headline. They need to find something to have people invested and excited.

      This is probably it.

      And with the NYG and CHI picks so early, they have the stock

      • Winston

        Even if they traded both of their first round picks this year and their first in 2023, they have an extra third and fifth rounder this year. And they would have a full complement of picks outside of the missing first rounder in 2023.

        But will the Giants pull the trigger? Gettleman will be out at the end of the season and I assume their new GM will want to have a collection of picks rather than trading them away. If Gettleman wasn’t on the hot seat already and had another year on his contract, I could totally see trading for Russell as a big move to try to save himself.

    • cha

      Leonard Williams or I’d hang up.

      • Rob Staton

        More likely Saquon I think

        • Paul Cook

          I have only this to say about a RW/Giants trade. They. Pay. Big. Or. No.

          What other choice do they have besides possibly Watson if they want a franchise QB to turn around the fortunes of the franchise? We would be so in the drover’s seat on such a deal.

          • cha

            I’m going to keep saying this – the value is higher than is generally thought for RW

            Whoever acquires him gets a franchise QB for

            $24m in 2022 (16th QB salary in the NFL)
            $27m in 2022 (15th QB salary)

            And that is before you factor in extensions for Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson. Heck, even Baker Mayfield might eclipse those numbers.

            A team acquiring RW isn’t shredding their salary cap to do so. With some smart maneuvering they could fill in the gaps around him very quickly.

            That is massive value.

            • Winston

              The Giants have very limited cap room in 2022 and would have to certainly rework his contract to make it work. But as we’ve seen with so many teams like the Chiefs, Saints, and Rams, it can be done. Let the bidding war between the Eagles and Giants commence!

              • cha

                They’d sign him to an extension and lower the cap hit drastically.

                There’s no way a team would fork over that much draft compensation and not sign a guy to an extension immediately. //eye twitch

                • RugbyLock

                  Yeah, you’re right! There’s no way… that… someone… would… We would…

            • Peter

              This is a great point. Jackson, murray, and maybe mayfield after Allen blew the doors rught off the market with his quarter billion, 150 million guaranteed while being currently ring-less.

              Wilson is going to look like a borderline deal for some team.

              “With some smart manuevering,”……if only Wilson was already on a team that could do some smart manuevering…..

      • OP_Chillin

        Oh my stars if they trade Wilson for Barkley (and picks obvs) that might be the worst trade in NFL history. Even worse than Adams.

  51. JimQ

    I have some concerns about the Seahawks scouting department. I’m sure the numerous scouts in that department work really hard & obviously evaluate 100’s of players. I’m sure they rank players by each position and try to consider the Seahawks desired traits that the organization has determined are best, IE: CB height, TEF scores, etc. as a part of their overall evaluations. The scouting department is also responsible for ranking all of the players in the draft to help determine when each will be drafted. I believe, once the positions are ranked and handed over to PC & JS that may be where problems start. I think the disconnect that causes poor drafting is at that point in the process.

    The “by each round in the draft” aspect is a big part of the problem. Does it make any sense to select a player of slightly less value because of “team needs” rather than picking the BPA? Why do they consistently mess that part of the draft up? I personally think that once PC & JS have received the rankings by position —-after a year+ of study– from there scouting department they modify and otherwise ignore the many recommendations and thoughts from their own scouts on draft day. In other words, PC & JS have consistently injected their own thoughts and feelings into who and what –combinations– of positions they draft. I can see PC saying stuff like “he has grit” “He competes” & “he’s a fit in what we want to do”. All the while ignoring his own scouting departments hard work. There seems to be a major disconnect in this area It is very likely that the Seahawks don’t really follow the advice of their own damn scouts. -IMO. Thoughts?

    • Big Mike

      It’s either what you are theorizing or their scouting dept. sucks. Maybe some of both

  52. Winston

    The biggest thing that drives up a price on a player is demand in the market. The Eagles are supposedly going to make a play for Russell, with Hurts’ play being very up and down. Howie Roseman is on the record as saying Russell is “the one that got away” and it was implied that ownership didn’t want him to pull the trigger in the second round of the draft.

    I feel like all GMs say that on good players, but with the pressure heating up on Roseman he may make a move. They have three first rounders this year. Maybe the Seahawks get the two highest first rounders and the Eagles’ first rounder in 2023 along with other picks since the Eagles don’t really have a young player that would suit us.

  53. Paul Cook

    Part of the reason why I want the Hawks to win out (other then I like to win) and make some improbable stab at the playoffs is that I think it will drive RW’s value up even more in the minds of any would be bidders for his services this coming off season. It will also make it pretty damn clear around here who the most important figure is in our football franchise, if this isn’t already clear by now.

  54. Big Mike

    Man I can hardly wait for the Mitch Trubisky years. Of course at least he’ll step up in the pocket and fire the ball so there’s that.
    G and maybe it’ll be a double bonus and Pete Carroll will be making those 1st round picks from the draft choices we got from the giants. Oh boy more LJ Colliers.

    • Peter

      Just looked at the list of 2022 free agents. Woof. Maybe tyrod taylor at 33 years old with a super strong run game. But that’s it for.

      Trade Wilson and at a minimum going go need to trade for a minshew level player.

      Then draft ridder (though am worried that his qb percentage never got better in college. Just one thing like to monitor for a qb) or JimQ’s qb Zappe whom I worry about his level of competition.

  55. TomLPDX

    Any way we can get Huntley from the Ravens?

  56. cha

    Bob Condotta
    Seahawks activated 4 practice squad players to fill in roster holes: defensive tackle Myles Adams, running back Josh Johnson, safety Josh Jones and receiver Cody Thompson.
    Bob Condotta
    Seahawks just announced no players on the COVID-19 list made it back in time for tonight’s game. So, no Tyler Lockett.

    • Paul Cook

      So basically the Rams made out well since moving the game to today, right?

      • Big Mike

        Well they’re who’s important right?

        • Paul Cook

          So they get Beckham and Ramsey back and we lose Lockett. Okay. I guess that’s just perfect.

          • bmseattle

            …and DJ Reed.

          • Denver Hawker

            Lockett was place on the list on Thursday.

            • Peter

              With minimal investigating it appears that if a team exceeds a practice squad earth of players than the game gets moved.

              Again this should be addressed going forward.

              Don’t think Seattle would win straight up against the Rams.

              But kind of whack the Sunday game gets moved to help the rams while Seattle’s plsyer losses keep mounting. But. Not so bad the game should be moved.

              • Peter

                Edit. A practice squad worth not *earth*

      • TomLPDX

        Of course they did, that’s the whole point. If we lost half our roster these past few days the game would still be on.

        • Big Mike

          Bingo. Even a cursory observation of the NFL makes it obvious the league favors certain franchises starting with the stealers.

    • cha

      Also a reminder that Adrian Peterson isn’t active.

      That “Win Now Mode” move produced 16 yards in 11 carries. Two weeks ago.

      • BobbyK

        Don’t forget the fumble.

      • Blitzy the Clown

        “We finally got him”

        Nice read thanks

  57. cha

    Raible: “How do you slow down the Rams pass rush?”

    PC: “Mix our protections.”

    Raible: “Defense slow down this offense?”

    PC: “Hit Stafford, keep him moving in the pocket. Keep Cooper Kupp from making big plays. Get a couple interceptions.”

    Raible: “Keeping them off the field with your running game too?”

    PC: “Yes. Gotta convert on third down.”

    • Peter

      Is this dialogue from an old madden game?

      The bottom three team in takeaways has to get a couple of interceptions?

      Bottom five in sacks is gonna hit stafford?

      Mix protections? Maybe activate or use a fullback.

      • cha

        He said they were going to pressure Davis Mills a ton just before he took the field last week. They did the opposite.

        So that’s what I’m expecting – the exact opposite of what he says.

        FWIW, the entire 710 crew predicted a Seahawks win tonight. Because of course they did.

        • Peter

          I could totally see it if the Rams were the guaranteed one or two seed. But they still need to keep winning for a reason at this point.

          • Peter

            And it being competitive if Tyler Lockett was playing since he’s on an awesome season given the circumstances of the year.

    • TheOtherJordan

      It’s just getting so worn out and is now bordering on , “if we score more points than the other team, we have a really good chance to win.” Change is so desperately needed.

      • Peter

        At least that was funny when madden said that.

  58. Peter

    Have to miss the first half of the game. Hope seattle keeps it in control and i don’t see Wildon having to force passes because a DOA run game and monster clock eating drives from stafford.

  59. OP_Chillin

    Great start by special teams.

  60. OP_Chillin

    Wow Amadi! Beat two blockers there

  61. OP_Chillin

    6 minute drive and counting. Terrible on the offense for not staying on the field to prevent this. XD

    • Rob Staton

      I just find this defense so terribly frustrating to watch.

  62. cha

    2nd and 19, and the Rams get a 14 yard gain on a pass.

    Raible immediately praises the Seahawks defense for not allowing ‘deep crossers’ and Wyman agrees.

    • OP_Chillin

      Meanwhile Brock was emphasizing the wiiide open nature of that play.

  63. Big Mike

    3 point mistake by Alton. 😞

  64. Blitzy the Clown

    Nice block by Everett (and Curhan)

  65. OP_Chillin

    Bloody hell those offensive ranks are pathetic

  66. Big Mike

    I understand tempo but downside is if you don’t get firsts your d goes back on the field very quickly

  67. OP_Chillin

    What a joke of a play lmao. 3rd and long is a disaster.

    • Big Mike

      I’ve never seen a worse screen team

    • Rob Staton

      In fairness that was well played by #99

  68. Magmatizer

    The first run from under center went for 10, but then they went ahead with 2 ineffective runs from shotgun leading up to the botched HB screen.

  69. OP_Chillin

    Interior DL getting pressure so far

  70. Rob Staton

    No pass rush, third and 12 converted

  71. Matt

    Excited for the usual suspects to blame ToP exclusively on the offense.

    • Matt

      PPG does not come close to telling the story of this defense.

  72. OP_Chillin

    First quarter over… we’re currently on the third possession of the game. Honestly I hate these kinds of games they’re so boring. Let’s see some quick scores, turnovers, big plays on either sides. Cmon

  73. Blitzy the Clown

    Yay this is so much fun!

  74. Rob Staton

    This is all so familiar.

    And dull.

    I am bored watching this version of the Seahawks play to try and stick around

    • Bmseattle

      It was much more entertaining to watch low scoring games when Lynch and The LOB were physically humiliating the opposition.
      You could actually see us getting control as the game went on.
      Now its just…nothing.

  75. Bmseattle

    I’m starting to suspect we have a weakness in the intermediate middle part of our pass defense. 🤔

    • Troy

      Soft zones. Let them complete easy passes. Hope they make a mistake. It doesn’t work. Set to lose the time of possession battle by a wide margin again.

  76. Big Mike

    Not that it’s gonna matter but that was holding on Austin not pi. Shit call

  77. OP_Chillin

    There we go! There’s a fun play 🙂

  78. Rob Staton

    What the hell was that by Stafford???

    Is he helping his Detroit buddy get a big FA contract???

    • Bmseattle

      Credit to Diggs…but have *all* his interceptions this year been on inexplicable throws by tje QB?

      • Rob Staton

        Dunno… but what the heck did Stafford do there???

        I could’ve done that throw

  79. Blitzy the Clown

    Well alright alright alright

  80. Big Mike

    Shit decision by Stafford. Lions in him coming out

  81. OP_Chillin

    Dammit we have to actually punish the other team for stupid turnovers. That ended up just being a net loss of what 40 yards or something for the Rams offense after the punt?

  82. Big Mike

    Glad they showed that back view. Obviously no one open

    • OP_Chillin

      Crosser was coming open intermediate right of the field but it took a while.

      • Big Mike

        Too long. O line did fine initially

    • Troy

      Why can’t they scheme Metcalf open? The Packers always find a way to scheme throws to Davante Adams.

      • Big Mike

        Fair question but it also makes you wonder is part of that on him for not getting open? I suspect hes no Adams

        • Big Mike

          My suspicion is it’s some of both

        • Bmseattle

          Fair point…but sometimes Russ doesnt even look his way.
          He’s such a threat, he should be looked at by the QB every pass play, imo.

      • OP_Chillin

        Hard on 3rd and 11. Also Adams is a better route runner than DK. Though I do agree they do some easy throws to get the ball in his hands but that’s usually when “on schedule” not 3rd and long.

    • OP_Chillin

      Actually just saw the pics of the play. Pocket was pristine everywhere except left side. Room to slide up and to the right and hit the crosser coming open on that side. Welp.

  83. Big Mike

    Nice hit

  84. Rob Staton

    Look at Taylor go and level Henderson


    And look at Wagner, all tentative and hesitant to make contact (again)

    • Bmseattle

      Yes, that play was a *perfect* example of that.
      As Wagner stood there, Taylor came flying past him to make the play.
      Oh man…

      • Rob Staton

        Nobody wants to talk about it though

        • Bmseattle

          Apparantly we are assholes for even considering it.

    • cha

      And look at Wagner not only not celebrating a good hit, but not even bothering to give his teammate a high five for a wallop

  85. pdway

    i think what’s frustrating in these watchings – – we just don’t get anything easy on offense, ever. and in contrast, it looks easy as pie to complete these little passes against our defense for 8-12 yards whenever they want.

  86. Leo

    It’s amazing how much more this defense misses DJ Reed than Jamal Adams.

  87. SeaTown

    Rams just bleeding the clock. Such boring football.

    • Troy

      Another time of possession whooping.

  88. Big Mike

    Oh boy down to PS corner

  89. Blitzy the Clown

    How can they not scheme Eskridge open vs a LB?

    • Bmseattle

      Just because he wasnt open by the time Russ threw it, doesnt mean he wasnt open.

      • Blitzy the Clown

        I mean, I guess it’s possible Wilson missed Eskridge open on a play that he had a lot of time to wait on throwing and only went to Eskridge in garbage time at the end.

  90. OP_Chillin

    There’s a manufactured touch for DK. It got 5 yards so that’s decent

  91. OP_Chillin

    This offense is GARBAGE man. Three possessions and one first down right?

    • SeaTown

      Shane. Waldron.

      • pdway

        had higher hopes for him for sure.

    • pdway

      it’s like we have zero easy plays in our entire offensive scheme….

    • Troy

      If the explosive plays aren’t there, this offense can’t function.

    • Troy

      If the explosive plays aren’t there, this offense can’t function.

  92. OP_Chillin

    The D creates some negative plays. Then they give that up smh.

  93. Blitzy the Clown

    Oh c’mon Poona!

    • Bmseattle

      Would have been nice..but you cant expect Poona to handle that pass.

  94. Bmseattle

    Not only does it seem stupid to put your DL in pass coverage for the obvious reason that they cant cover…but wouldnt it also tire them out, running across the field like that?
    Then they have less energy to rush the passer the next play.

    • 206

      Great point. Especially when you have a thinner D line

  95. Rob Staton

    This offense is clueless

    If the run doesn’t work, or if Wilson can’t make magic happen, they have nothing

    • 12th chuck

      seemed like they were running the ball ok, but lack of discipline penalties is an issue

  96. OP_Chillin

    Look, the D has had some bad plays but 3 points in a half is 3 points in a half. Now for the offense to do something

    • Matt

      I don’t disagree but it’s hard to get rhythm when you’re off the field for that long.

    • 12th chuck

      I was thinking d was plating good, but stats, time of possession are not very kind. at least we are still in the game!

  97. GoHawks5151

    Look I want change too. I understand what that means for the rest of the season. I know this team is not great. But I’m disgusted by this whole situation. All the Rams players that are magically cleared for the game, all Seattle players that couldn’t clear despite being clearly a strongly vaxed team, to now just giving them a TO a full minute after a penalty. I hate this

    • Bmseattle

      Are the Rams not “strongly vaxxed?”
      As long as the “policy” is to test people who dont have symptoms, this scenario was bound to happen.

      • DC

        Especially when being vaxxed, let alone strongly vaxxed, doesn’t exclude a person from getting COVID.

  98. OP_Chillin

    Wait… did Russ try to throw that to DK and it ended up at Everett because Von hit him?

  99. OP_Chillin

    Bloody hell the DB almost had that cmon Russ

    • Peter

      I’ll allow for Everett gifting a td int an int a few weeks back

      • OP_Chillin

        Was referring to the throw to Eskridge in the EZ

        • Peter


  100. OP_Chillin

    Time management at total clown show on that drive. Plenty of time to mix in the run and use timeouts.

  101. 12th chuck

    Poona Ford shouldn’t be in coverage smdh

  102. Rob Staton

    Whatever happens the rest of the way… I think we can safely say Shane Waldron aint it

    • Paul Cook

      I was there awhile ago with that. But yeah…

      • Rob Staton

        I think we all have been

        But it’s worth reiterating

        • Paul Cook

          Unfortunately, there’s a bunch of things that do…lol

  103. Paul Cook

    Half time. Just got off the exercise bike. We’re in it. Let’s win this game.

    Still giving up a bit too many 3rd down conversions. Still not using the center of the field in the passing game. Still holding onto the ball too long.

    But we’re in it!

    • Peter

      Hats off yo your enthusiasm. Pete probably loves it but i hate games where it’s first qb to unlock is going to win.

      Sure would have been nice to have Lockett out there

  104. Paul Cook

    This is a real good drive. Let’s score a TD now.

  105. Troy

    Seahawks actually making a drive early in the first half? Is that legal?

    • Troy

      Meant second half

  106. Rob Staton

    That was an exceptional drive.


    • Troy

      Yup I said wow about 4-5 times that drive. How can the Seahawks offense go from looking totally inept to totally proficient I seriously am baffled

    • Bmseattle

      Surprising, huh?
      They’ve had about 5 like that all season.

      • Bmseattle

        I give all the credit to Waldron.

    • cha

      Committing to the run.

      Quicker passes.

  107. Paul Cook


    Great drive. Real statement.

  108. OP_Chillin

    DJ Dallas with some “sneaky” looking runs there. Good combo with Penny’s speed.

  109. AlaskaHawk

    The Seahawks say: Redemption is Mine to Grab

    • Rob Staton

      Redemption might be a stretch

      • OP_Chillin

        Stay of Execution?

        • Rob Staton

          We’re way past that

  110. Rob Staton

    Penny injured again it sounds

    • Bmseattle

      Durability score.

    • Peter


    • Hawks4life

      It was only a matter of time, good thing we have AP now lmfao

  111. OP_Chillin

    Cool now they’re running up the field on the D

    • Paul Cook

      Well we’re lucky it didn’t happen earlier.

  112. Hawks4life

    Looks like we forgot to tackle on that run by Sony

    • cha

      Bobby Wagner blocked out of the way with one pop.

  113. Rob Staton

    That was easy

    • Hawks4life

      I think it’s ridiculous when people say Wagner has lost a step…. I think he’s lost a few

      • Shane

        and he looks so uninterested

  114. Bmseattle

    Brock claiming they doubled Wagner on that run…only…they didnt double him.
    One guy handled him easily.

    • Rob Staton

      Well, at least we talk about it on here.

      Eventually people will catch on elsewhere, as per.

      • Bmseattle

        Field gulls article or it didnt happen

      • Pran

        here comes how good is Bobby…see how many tackles he has now…etc from press.

        • Rob Staton

          The fact that Jordyn Brooks is 3rd in the league for tackles too — seems to have bypassed a lot of people. There’s a reason why they’re collecting tackles.

    • pdway

      embarrassing effort at a tackle by Austin on that run

  115. Pran

    just when offense showed some life.. D just takes the life out of it just like that..

  116. AlaskaHawk

    WAh, Wah, Wahhhhh. First there was the Legion of Boom. Then there was We will be better Soon. and now we got Hot Butter.

  117. OP_Chillin

    Protection was phenomenal and Russ moved to reset the leverage on the left side. That’s the kind of subtle movement that makes a huge difference.

    • Bmseattle

      Those used to be the plays that you just felt were going to be big.
      Now…not so much.

    • Big Mike

      Pass pro been pretty damned good tonight
      Pass to Dee slightly underthrown

      • OP_chillin

        I think more to the inside than it had to be tbh. Kind of led him into the safety

  118. cha

    Third and four. Let’s throw into double coverage deep with our shortest WR doing a jump ball.

    This is NOT how you beat the Rams, my brothers.

    • OP_Chillin

      I mean Swain looked open over the middle to the inside of Ramsey but they didn’t show the whole field so can’t be totally sure.

    • pdway

      just get the 1st down…

      • Matthew

        I don’t think I’m the only hopeless fan who want a both Pete and Russ to be successful
        To acknowledge he’s not been accurate for a season and a half, at least. The team is supposed to fire Pete and build around this guy? What is going to make him more accurate at this point? He had a COMICAL amount of time in the pocket all game pong, and did nothing. It’s all Tyler Lockett you’ll say? Ugh…there’s no good at out of this.

  119. Troy

    3rd down and 4 and we can’t scheme a quick throw?

  120. Blitzy the Clown

    Props to Brooks tonight

    • GoHawks5151

      He was briefly possessed by the ghost of KJ wright

  121. Bmseattle

    Great play by Brooks there

    • pdway

      he’s having a strong game. probably not a 1st round pick (not that plenty of those don’t get blown) – but he looks like a legit NFL player at least.

      • Bmseattle

        He’s a talented player, and could turn into an asset.
        I’d prefer to get a guy like him in the 3rd round, tho.

  122. Big Mike

    Best pass rush we’ve had all season?

    • OP_Chillin

      Possibly Colts game was better/more consistent? It’s gotta be top 3.

      • Big Mike

        Yeah Colts game was very good too

    • pdway

      got to give the D credit. Rams are one of the best offenses in the league.

      It’s interesting to play against a good, but not particularly mobile QB — we’re actually getting sacks tonight.

  123. Big Mike

    Ref screwing

    • pdway

      give me a break…what a BS CALL

    • GoHawks5151

      The second, super late bullshit call of the game

  124. Paul Cook

    A few real BS calls against us tonight.

    • Big Mike

      Yeah because the NFL wants the rams to succeed because they’re Los Angeles market franchise? That’s all I can come up with

      • SeaTown

        Refs have been atrocious tonight.

  125. Hawks4life

    Bobby Wagners effort really needs to be discussed in house, that was embarrassing

  126. Paul Cook

    If the Rams score on this drive it’s on the refs.

    • Hawks4life

      Yeah the NFL really needs to do something about these types of calls, especially in the 4th qrt. I just doesn’t make any sense, why can’t they take 10 seconds to look into it….

  127. Pran

    Back to our usual worst O and D….

  128. Big Mike

    Officials handed the Rams 7 points. Fucking bullshit

    • Pran

      come on… did you see how they ran through the D… one call for 5 yds does not make much difference…

      • pdway

        what are you talking about? they gave it to them on 3rd and 12, and we stopped them 5 yards short.

        It’s basically gifting them a turnover.

      • Big Mike

        Um they’d have punted and Seattle would’ve had good field position.
        Do you think XL* was above board officiating?

  129. Paul Cook

    Our D had them off the field again. And the refs absolutely gifted them a drove prolonging first down and eventual TD.

    Total BS. Second non-existent PI call tonight against us.

    • Pran

      Did you not see our worst tackling on that drive..

      • Paul Cook

        That was a 4th quarter game changing bad call. That should not happen.

    • pdway

      One of Lewis’s ‘holds’ was a phantom call too.

  130. Troy

    This team is so flawed. You know it’s time for a change when as a fan you can predict the outcome before it happens.

  131. Ishmael

    Something that doesn’t get talked enough about is how out of shape the Hawks are. So slow over the ground, especially on defence, bunch of plodders.

  132. OP_Chillin

    Seriously? Five seconds of pristine pass pro and nothing?

  133. Pran

    that’s one hell of anticipatory throw from Stafford. When will Russ throw these type…

  134. pdway

    back in the day, russell would use his legs a ton on this kind of drive

  135. Matt

    This is one of the most poorly designed offenses I can ever remember. Just no scheming guys open at all. Horrendous.

    • pdway

      100%….nothing easy for us….

  136. OP_Chillin

    WTF?? Ball in left hand massive sack!

  137. Big Mike

    He has to dump it off to the running back there

  138. Troy

    Throw the f’n ball away!

    • GoHawks5151

      That’s on Russ. Back open

  139. Paul Cook

    Is nobody really open???

    • Pran

      Russ shitting the bed three drives in a row…

  140. Hawks4life

    What a hell of a play call on 3rd and 19…. I mean why even try if that’s what you come up with.

    • Hawks4life

      Russ has to make that toss to DK that’s an easy TD. I’ll go ahead and call game right now.

  141. OP_Chillin

    What the hell??? DK was WIDE ASS OPEN

  142. Rowdy

    Russ is trash

    • Troy

      Not trash, but he has not been good this year. There are limitations in his game that drive me crazy. And then there are games when he dazzles.

  143. pdway

    got to call it like it is – Russell has been very average tonight.

    Had DK there.

    • Paul Cook

      Surprisingly, most of the time he’s had AMPLE TIME.

  144. Paul Cook

    RW missed a TD throw there.

    • pdway

      and that’s the difference in a game – Stafford with a lights-out TD throw to Cupp; Russ hung it up way too long to DK…and from a clean pocket too.

      • Pran

        Russ been throwing like this for a while…even Tyler always have to slow down to catch the ball

  145. Big Mike

    Good Lord that should have been a touchdown

  146. Rowdy

    I have no doubt we would be in a better position right now with smith at qb, and I know smith isn’t that good.

    • Hawks4life

      Don’t kid yourself

      • Rowdy

        You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think so

        • Hawks4life

          I’m actually very serious. Even on a off night like this Russ is still the better option and always will be.

    • pdway


  147. pdway

    it’s funny…hard to know what to make of things. as a hawks fan this year, you just know that we need a re-set, nothing is really working – and it’s time to shake up the etch-a-sketch.

    But here are the Rams, all in for this year, a top-4 team in the league IMO – – and tonight they are just barely better than us.

    • Paul Cook

      For the most part, RW has had a poor game tonight. Not what we needed.

  148. OP_Chillin

    Wilson just has not been good enough tonight and in many games this year. Seriously, if he can’t hit those deep balls and he won’t run what peak traits is he offering right now?

  149. Rowdy

    He’s great at ending drives tonight

  150. Big Mike

    Plenty of time and great field position

  151. OP_Chillin

    What the FUCK was that call??

    • Pran

      Russ is playing bad… so they want to run now. one of the worst offenses all year

    • OP_Chillin

      and then a TO how is this possible?!

  152. Troy

    Big 4th down. What will we do?

  153. Paul Cook

    Why did they run on third down there??? And they better go for it. And make it..

  154. OP_Chillin

    DJ KILLED us with that penalty. Moves them right into FG range WTF?!

  155. Big Mike

    These refs are shit

    • Hawks4life

      Refs are clearly on the Rams side. It’s almost laughable at this point

  156. Hawks4life

    I understand the 3rd down run if your were planning on going for it on 4th down, but why take all that time and dial up that play. But I do agree with Deejay being pissed that was PI IMO

  157. Paul Cook

    The refs absolutely sucked and cost us the game tonight. Rarely happens, but did tonight.

  158. Sea Mode

    NFL wants its darling Rams to win.

    • Big Mike

      It’s so obvious man. Just like the no call that got them to the Super Bowl a couple years back

      • pdway

        move the game date to their advantage….and then an unbelievable no-call on the Dallas play….what a f-ing joke.

  159. Henry Taylor

    Great to see the Rams still ignore obvious PI on the Rams

    • Henry Taylor

      Refs on Rams

      • Sea Mode

        Same team.

        • MychestisBeastmode


  160. Bmseattle

    Obvious PI not called.
    What ya gonna do?🤷‍♂️

    • Pran

      yes, and not to forget another underthrown pass

  161. Pran

    wish they fire Pete and coaching staff right after the game… i dont care how bad refs are, its coaches and russ who put us in that position

    • Matthew

      You ever think Maybe Russ just isn’t executing what’s being called? Can’t even hit a wide open DK in stride. Seen it too many time. Lockett, and Baldwin have masked the problem, DK just can’t or won’t. That was a game changer miss. Everybody doing what’s be expected of them, except Wilson.

      • Rowdy

        It’s obvious to me he’s not, basically said it after the titans game

      • Poli

        He’s never been this inaccurate before the finger injury. Coincidence?

        • Matthew

          I don’t think I’m the only hopeless fan who want a both Pete and Russ to be successful
          To acknowledge he’s not been accurate for a season and a half, at least. The team is supposed to fire Pete and build around this guy? What is going to make him more accurate at this point? He had a COMICAL amount of time in the pocket all game pong, and did nothing. It’s all Tyler Lockett you’ll say? Ugh…there’s no good at out of this.

        • 12th chuck

          I don’t think he has been right since his ” non concussion” last year, his play has diminished. definitely shouldn’t trade him though

  162. Matthew

    Wilson just isn’t good enough.

    • Troy

      He has flaws in his game that are very apparent. And he has been magical many other times. Big decision upcoming for the organization.

  163. Denver Hawker

    I’m no conspiracy theorist, and the offense certainly had opportunities blown, but the poor officiating coupled with moving the game has a really bitter taste in my mouth.

    • Bmseattle

      I’m totally a conspiracy theorist…and I agree with you.

      • Sea Mode

        Thing is, it doesn’t take a conspiracy theorist anymore. It’s painfully obvious. This season is the first time I’ve really perceived during games that the refs do their best to keep the games close and exciting as long as it’s not to the detriment of one of darling markets.

        • bmseattle

          There is too much at stake… in a number of ways… for the NFL to not want to…”influence” things.

  164. Canadian Hawk

    Granted the Seahawks aren’t a great football team.
    Yes, they’ll most likely miss the playoffs.

    But this officiating in this game has been utter horseshit.

    Disgraceful showing by the refs today.

  165. Paul Cook

    It’s very, VERY rare that the refs choose who wins a game. They did tonight. Yes, we had chances to win in spite of them. But it can’t be ignored how terrible and lopsided they were tonight.

  166. BobbyK

    Tim Donaghy out of prison calling NFL games now. What a total screw job, NFL. This is a game that makes you wonder if games are rigged. NFL sure seems cozy with gambling sites these days and the on field product seems to feel the business is mutual.

  167. Paul Cook

    Disgusting display of officiating tonight.

  168. Bmseattle

    The refs denied us a shot at winning.
    No need for caveats.
    Its just the truth.

  169. TheOtherJordan

    Anybody left who thinks the league doesn’t play favorites with officiating?

    • Big Mike

      NFL got what they wanted just like when they screwed the saints to get LA into the super bowl

    • Bmseattle

      Yes…whoever wins the game

  170. Pran

    Pete will hide behind bad officiating it.

    • Troy

      He can’t hide behind the fact that McVay owns him.

      • BobbyK

        When the game is bought it’s pretty easy to be “owned” in a singular incidence. Pete was not outreached by McVay tonight. No one bit. The refs had money on the game or there was a death threat against one of the refs family members if the Rams didn’t win (over exaggerating, yes). There’s no other logical explanation for the game being that horribly officiated at the end. No f’ing way.

  171. Magmatizer

    Man, Chris Myers is selling the Rams hard.

  172. AlaskaHawk

    Yes, the reffing sucked. And that last non-call on pass interference was terrible, the defender never looked back for the ball.

  173. Paul Cook

    I just have a horrible bad taste in my mouth about this game. I don;t like the NFL tonight. That was embarrassing.

    • pdway

      embarrassing is the right word.

    • 12th chuck

      seems like the “fix” was in again

  174. Hawks4life

    Gross. Honestly not mad we lost but it still sucks to see us trending downwards so fast. I just want answers and I hope we get them this offseason. I can already see Pete making excuses about the game being moved and us missing players, like would change are embarrassingly ran team week after week.

  175. Big Mike

    If Pete Carroll had one ounce of testicles he’d stand up on camera and flat out say Seahawks got screwed and NFL officiating is an embarrassment and so on and so forth. I mean really go off. He won’t.

  176. Ashish

    Hate may be strong word but I hate RAMS

  177. Paul Cook

    That was playing favorites with the Rams. No other way to put it.

  178. OP_Chillin

    Wow. Season officially officially over. Refs rode us hard and put us away wet but the offense had what two good drives the whole game? Never going anywhere with that level of ineptitudes. Sorry Dunlap your 3 sack game was completely wasted.

  179. CL

    So damn mad right now…

    Is it the best for the seahawks going forward? Surely.

    But god those refs were HORRIBLE…

    • Paul Cook

      We got cheated. No doubt about it.

  180. Norman

    No question about it the Seahawks were objectively bad tonight.

    But that game left the same bad taste I got in my mouth at the non-PI call in Rams-Saints NFCCG. The credibility of this game was simply shredded by this ref crew.

    • Norman

      This is PRECISELY why the game needs sky judge. Can’t continue to allow some games to be simply tainted like this.

      • Big Mike

        1000% agree which us why it’ll never happen. Too hard to get the desired results

    • pdway

      half the Hawks were bad…..

      The D held the Rams offense to 17, which is not nothing (and 7 came on a bogus drive extending call).

    • Mike

      The refs were bad, the hawks could have won.

      BUT it was pretty clear the rams are the way better team. Just have more guys.

  181. Big Mike

    Getting harder and harder to watch the NFL

  182. 12th chuck

    hate to say it with all the DK fans here, but I don’t see it. he didn’t even try to catch the pass in the endzone, and rarely jumps up for a catch

    • Matt

      His effort and attitude absolutely suck sometimes. Went from his biggest fan to can’t stand the guy.

      • 12th chuck

        I doubt he would want to stay here anyways

  183. GoHawks5151

    Horrible. Joke of a game. They should be ashamed, but you would need integrity in the first place. Blandino agreed on several bad calls. Bad sign right there

    • 12th chuck

      pretty sure that’s why he left the nfl, says he has more freedom now.

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