Five reasons why Seahawks’ criticism isn’t an overreaction

Sean McVay is a clear example of the modern NFL coach — and he has Seattle’s number

1. The defense has been really bad for a number of years

Groundhog Day. A new NFL season begins and the Seahawks are no good on defense. Yards galore. Huge, long, back-breaking drives by the opponent. Third down issues. Either they can’t defend the run or they can’t defend the pass.

They are just too easy to play against.

Every off-season there’s something new to be fixed or prioritised. By the time a season begins, there’s something else to address.

Eventually you get to a point where you think ‘enough is enough’. We simply can’t go through this same dance year after year.

Furthermore, look at what has been spent on the defense:

— A top-five pick (Devon Witherspoon)

— A first round pick (Jordyn Brooks)

— Three second round picks (Mafe, Hall, Taylor)

— Two firsts and a third on the Jamal Adams trade

— Big money spent on Dre’Mont Jones

— Free agent returns for Bobby Wagner & Jarran Reed

— Substantial extensions given to Adams, Uchenna Nwosu & Quandre Diggs

This is a massive resource spend just to see a bad defense every year. The coaches have a responsibility to do so much more with this group and it’s understandable why fans have lost patience.

2. Has the game changed?

Look at the list of recent Super Bowl opponents and who they’re coached by:

Chiefs vs Eagles — two offensive-minded Head Coaches

Rams vs Bengals — two offensive-minded Head Coaches

Buccaneers vs Chiefs — two offensive-minded Head Coaches

Chiefs vs 49ers — two offensive-minded Head Coaches

Patriots vs Rams — one defensive-minded, one offensive-minded coach

The only non-offensive whiz in the Super Bowl in the last five years was Bill Belichick — the greatest coach in NFL history.

Since Carroll won Seattle’s Super Bowl in 2013, Belichick is the only defensive coach to win a Championship. Since then, we’ve seen Gary Kubiak, Doug Pederson, Andy Reid, Bruce Arians and Sean McVay win titles.

Even when defensive coaches reach the big game, they’re often supported by the offense. Dan Quinn’s Atlanta team was successful mostly due to Kyle Shanahan producing a MVP season out of Matt Ryan. Belichick had Tom Brady. Ron Rivera’s Super Bowl run came during Cam Newton’s incredible MVP year.

In the modern NFL, it’s often argued that the game is heavily weighted towards offense. Quarterbacks are more protected. Defensive penalties are difficult to avoid. You can’t hit like you used to.

College football churns out players who are used to playing in spread systems.

There are some long-time, revered coaches in the league such as Carroll, Belichick and Mike Tomlin. At the moment, none of the trio appear close to leading a serious contender. Granted, all three coaches have used their talent and experience to avoid their teams collapsing when many predicted they would. Yet the maximum all three seem able to muster at the moment is self-preservation by avoiding becoming terrible.

Look at the way Carroll has struggled against Sean McVay over the years. It does feel like a new generation has the upper hand — with an offensive-minded approach ably supported by an experienced defensive coordinator in control of his side of the ball.

You can’t fail to be impressed by McVay and Kyle Shanahan. Nick Sirriani can’t hold a media room like Carroll but it took him just two years to get to a Super Bowl despite inheriting a 4-11-1 team. Look at what Andy Reid has achieved in Kansas City — not just with Patrick Mahomes but also with Alex Smith. Mike McDaniel is a breath of fresh air in Miami, Zac Taylor has taken the Bengals of all teams to the Super Bowl, Doug Pederson — a winner in Philly — is now making the Jaguars relevant and Matt LaFleur is 47-19 in Green Bay.

Nobody thinks results are guaranteed if you just appoint any offensive coach. Surely, though, it’s easy to understand why fans might wonder whether the game has gone a certain way and it might be time to join the party?

3. Seattle’s playoff record is poor

Pete Carroll and John Schneider are quick to reference that the team has been consistently competitive during their tenure but the reality is they’ve been also-rans since their last Super Bowl appearance nearly a decade ago.

Since 2015 they’ve won three playoff games. This includes the Blair Walsh missed-kick game, a victory over the Lions at home and a win against the Eagles where 40-year-old Josh McCown played most of the game as an emergency backup quarterback.

Three playoff wins in eight seasons.

Since the initial reset in 2018, five years ago, they’ve won just one playoff game.

Now let’s look at the other teams in the NFC West.

Since Seattle’s last Super Bowl run (the period where they’ve since only won three playoff games) — the Rams have won seven playoff games. That includes two Super Bowl appearances, winning one Championship.

The 49ers have won six playoff games. This includes reaching one Super Bowl and two other NFC Championship appearances.

The Cardinals, one of the worst-run franchises in football, have won only one playoff game in this period but it was enough to see them reach the NFC Championship game in 2015.

The rest of the division have combined for 14 playoff wins, six NFC Championship game appearances, three Super Bowl appearances and one title since the Seahawks were last a serious threat in the playoffs.

You can forgive some fans for looking at this and thinking three mostly uninspiring playoff wins since 2015 isn’t cutting the mustard.

Also, since Seattle’s last visit to the NFC Championship game, 10 of the other 15 teams in the conference have reached the contest. Only the Seahawks, Commanders, Cowboys, Giants, Bears and Lions have failed to make the NFC final since 2015.

The Seahawks have averaged 9.7 wins a season since 2015. They’ve consistently avoided being a horrible team but it’s hard to argue they’ve ever been a great team in this period. They’ve not been a serious contender and their playoff record proves that. It feels like they’re stuck in the majority middle section of the league. They’re never terrible but they’ve not been a Heavyweight contender since 2014 — unlike the Rams and 49ers.

(Edit — It was a poor choice of words to say the Seahawks have been in the ‘majority middle’. They haven’t been a top contender but they’ve not been a middling team. I should’ve found a better way to describe being outside the top echelon of teams)

4. They can’t recapture their chosen identity

How long have the Seahawks been chasing the classic formula that formed the foundation of their Super Bowl win? They talk about being a punishing team full of highly competitive individuals. They want to be the bully.

After the game on Sunday, key players like Geno Smith took to the podium. They looked the media members in attendance in the eye and declared:

The Rams wanted it more than us


The Seahawks have tailor-made their last two drafts to be all about character and competitiveness. Since the Russell Wilson trade, they’ve doubled down on the type of team they want to be. Yet in the opening game of the season, against a division rival no less, the leaders on the team are talking about the other side being more competitive and having more desire to get a win.

This is a really poor reflection on the team and a reminder of how long it’s been since the Seahawks truly kicked anyone’s arse. I’ll never forget watching Tampa Bay’s offensive line begging their sideline to ‘let them eat’ a year ago. They knew they could run all over Seattle. They were the enforcers.

They’ve tried and tried and simply seem incapable of recapturing the attitude they once had and are desperate to regain.

Is it time to try something else?

5. The Seahawks are a bad home team

Between 2021-23, Seattle’s record at Lumen Field is 8-10. Prior to the 2020 Covid season, where no fans were permitted to attend games, they were 4-4 at home in 2019.

How can it be that the Seahawks now win more games on the road than they do at home?

People talk about the dynamics changing in the stadium, with more ’12 since 12′ types attending, plus fan-tourists. Has the place lost its edge? I’ve noticed that like everyone else. The first game I ever attended in 2006 was an ear-splitting experience. That simply isn’t the case these days unless it’s a headline game.

Even so, there are plenty of other teams who’ve never had a terrifying home-field advantage and still boast a better record on their turf than the Seahawks.

The gradual decline of the home record plays into the feeling that a malaise has taken over and something different is required to get things going again.

Let me be clear — I appreciate everything Pete Carroll has brought to Seattle. You’d have to be a complete moron to not appreciate him. They should build a statue of Carroll outside the stadium the moment he departs, whenever that is. His legacy in Seattle is secure and he will forever be a Seahawks hero.

That doesn’t mean, however, we shouldn’t talk about the things listed above, question whether — after 13 years — it’s time for change and wonder if the team should be moving in a different direction to achieve what we all want — to reach the pinnacle of the NFL again.

You can only see the same problems repeating for so long before you embrace the kind of conversation you’d rather not have. That’s where I’m at. It’s where I’ll be even if they upset the Lions on Sunday. If all of this is proven to be wrong come January, I’ll happily eat my crow.

The manner of the Rams defeat has made this the only topic in town this week for me. I don’t enjoy talking about it but I’ve wanted to try and explain why I am.

For more, here’s a video I posted on my YouTube channel earlier:


  1. Big Mike

    Yep this sums it all up. If I were the owner there would’ve been at least a HC change 2 years ago.
    Looks like both our Tackles will miss Sunday. Aidan Hutchinson just called to say “hi”.

  2. Palatypus

    Rob, you’re opinions are too maverick.

    • Rob Staton

      Probably true

    • James

      I don’t know that channeling something a great deal of the fanbase has been feeling for half a decade now is too maverick.

      • Palatypus

        Too Iceman? Warlock? Phoenix?

        • DK

          Too Sundown I think.

          • Palatypus

            I’m glad there is someone on this board who can appreciate a good double entendre.

            By the way, I am pulling for Bobo.

  3. Blitzy the Clown

    I mean, we hashed over this convo ad nauseam last year leading up to the Wilson trade.

    Was Carroll cooked? Was it time for him to walk away?

    If we’re asking the same questions a year later, I think that’s our answer.

  4. Blitzy the Clown

    Every off-season there’s something new to be fixed or prioritised. By the time a season begins, there’s something else to address.

    Honestly, if it was something new, I might understand. But with this team, this FO, it seems like the same bloody problems haunt us season after season.

    I fear the solution is beyond personnel. Sure, a stout presence in the middle of the DL would help. But look over the defensive roster, see the names listed, the talent represented, and tell me you think the problem is personnel.

  5. cha

    Every off-season there’s something new to be fixed or prioritised. By the time a season begins, there’s something else to address.

    Eventually you get to a point where you think ‘enough is enough’. We simply can’t go through this same dance year after year.

    Every. Single. Year.

    How has the press corp not latched onto this and pressed Pete to explain why?

    The closest we got last year was Corbin Smith, 10/10/22 after the Saints Loss

    Corbin: Pete, obviously every year is a little bit different. But this is 3 straight years the defense needs five games to find its footing. As a coach, why do you think this keeps happening? And do you see a pattern to these prolonged slumps to start the season?

    Pete: Uh, I don’t know about the patterns. But when you go 3 years and start slow, I guess you could look at that pattern, but I don’t know how it goes for us working forward. We just gotta make our moves and get our best guys in the right spots doing the right things as soon as possible. We’re working at it. I don’t know why it’s like that, I have no idea why we start slow. So we’re dealing with it again, and I know we’re gonna come out of it.

    The next question was Brady asking what signs Pete sees that the defense will get better, and Pete basically says ‘the wildcat killed us’ and ‘we won’t see the wildcat again’ and so he knows they’ll get better.

    That little smirk as Corbin asks his question doesn’t help.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Took me a long time to learn that if you can’t spot an obvious problem, you probably are that problem.

      • Nate

        Agree. With Pete I’d argue 7 years, since 2017. not 3.

    • Rob Staton

      That was a good question from Corbin and it warrants being asked again if Sunday’s showing continues for even one more game

    • Scott Crowder

      Pete’s answer can be edited down to make it more concise: I don’t know about….I don’t know how…I don’t know why…I have no idea.

  6. Sean

    Making a change at the top is several years overdue. I’m sick of watching us be outsmarted by the Rams…and most of the rest of the league. Over and over again.

    And from all available evidence, Pete is not a defensive head coach, in terms of scheme, roster construction, etc. He is an inspiration guy…supposedly. But if you come out of game one and your starting QB says the other team wanted it more, then the inspiration ain’t working.

  7. cha

    Well that’s just great

    Field Yates
    The Seahawks have placed starting RT Abe Lucas on IR, meaning he is out for at least 4 games.
    2:11 PM · Sep 13, 2023

    • Rob Staton

      Why did he play?

    • Big Mike

      Aw crap

    • ShowMeYourHawk

      The Drew Lock Experience is going to begin much sooner than we all anticipated. Aiden Hutchinson may bury Geno under Ford Field.

      On the plus side, if you’ve got JSN in your fantasy lineup, quick passes in slot and screens may be the only offense available.

    • Denver Hawker

      Aiden gonna feast

    • Mark

      FFS! Why does this team not invest in quality backups? Wasted a 2nd round pick on a rb that played 2 snaps last Sunday, and they got no quality depth for the trenches. RB are easily replaced should injuries occur while trench players are much harder to come by. The team building is atrocious. At the very least they should have a quality swing tackle. I am beyond frustrated with how this team was constructed and our cap hell. I am hoping for a good season, but I wont be surprised if they start off 2-6 or worse to start the season.

      • Nate

        Agree. And don’t forget they have Steve Hutchinson as a consultant to scout their OL picks.
        They didn’t even draft Terron Armstead, a perfect Tom Thanos-Cable OL, when they could’ve.

    • Elmer

      Today I am struck by how team depth gets discussed and celebrated, seemingly with disregard for the probability of injuries. This preseason Elmer has been expressing the opinion that depth at OT is suspect at best. Nobody cares what Elmer thinks. And look. The team is scrambling to find depth at OT after injuries to the starters.

      The DB depth must be questioned after game 1 as well. Depth? Hell, some of them might have to be starters.

      A rash of injuries always calls into question whether the team was in shape to play real football. A deficit there shines light on the strength and conditioning program and whether it needs to be overhauled.

      • Peter

        Depth on the dline has been discussed. They did carry an extra olinemen per position. The problem is most of all Seattle back up olinemen should never get on the field. Not just this year but every year.

        They have depth at DB. Enough, I don’t know. I just don’t know how talented they are. I know last year it wasn’t great. It’s a lot of the same names again. I know they are waiting for adams ( can’t cover) and witherspoon who presumably erases the mistakes in the middle of the field?

        Bobby can’t cover and please for the love of….I don’t carry if Brooks runs stride for stride with someone. It’s awesome for him he’s healthy. Brooks has a painfully low amount if impactful plays in his career and if you go stride for stride but didn’t deflect a pass all I see is forward progress for the offense. Whether you’re ‘this close,’ or not.

        • Elmer

          Right. Depth that you never want to have to play isn’t really depth, JS it?

          • Peter

            Agreed. This team has been far removed from backups that can be starters.

    • Bmseattle

      As i mentioned in the last cpmment thread…im very concerned about this knee injury that Lucas has been dealing with “for a long time”, as Pete said.

      This smells like a more serious issue than we realized.
      I fear this could be a loat season for him.

      I just hope its something that he can recover from long term.

      • Peter

        Color me concerned.

        Again hope it’s non surgical. But this IR designation is not great.

  8. Ukhawk

    Rob. Thanks for saying it out loud and getting this off our collective chest.

    This coming straight after Salk writes and article saying effectively stop blaming Pete.

    I love Pete but my patience is out.

    What is most clear is that there are so many things wrong, it won’t get sorted.

    Here’s to hoping they blow it up soon

    • Rob Staton

      I’ve sent Mike a link to this piece, hope he’ll check it out even if it’s just to hear some of the other side

      • Vinny

        Perhaps ownership is trying to create value. A new owner may be attracted to a team with a coach ready to retire, and a team the city is bored with. A new owner could see that as a beeter situation to choose their own coach, put their stamp on the team from the get go, and possibly threaten the city with moving the team to leverage tax dollars. If the city is ambivalent with a poorly performing team maybe a new NFL franchise is in the future, or a new stadium is demanded by new ownership. I think Pete is safe until the team is sold, then he retires.

    • Andrew M

      Salk is a company man through and through, the insufferable part about him is he seems not to know that. He has a weekly show laughably called Tell The Truth Mondays, in which he floats soft balls at Carroll and then allows the coach to spew the same platitudes over and over. After that he pivots to homer nostalgia like “How about the ovation for Bobby’s return? Isn’t it great?” It’s cringe to listen to, it’s frustrating to reflect on, it’s insulting to be sold over and over. Pete could be the mayor of Seattle and Salk could be his press secretary.

      Wasn’t Salk once a Boston-adjacent sports guy? Where is the backbone and grit those people are known for? Hey Mike, how about asking the architect of the LOB why his new defense looks so unprepared year after year now? Maybe ask him if he thinks the reset after the LOB era ended, combined with the McDowell draft, combined with the Adams trade and contract has anything to do with a talent gap on that side of the ball? When Pete pivots to the shtick, politely guide him back to the question until he says something with any meaning, or has to flat out refuse an answer.

      • ScottS

        “Wasn’t Salk once a Boston-adjacent sports guy? Where is the backbone and grit those people are known for?”

        And now you know why he couldn’t hack it in the east coast media.

  9. Big Mike

    Salk is just one of several Pete Nike tennis shoe lickers in the Seattle media. Serious question: why do you guys listen to 710? (I’m down in the Portland market)

    • cha

      His ‘in defense of Pete’ piece today was atrocious. Absolute garbage.

      • Big Mike

        So if he’s motivated to write that piece it makes me think there’s perhaps a growing portion of the fanbase that are getting tired of the same old crap with Pete’s program. I’m not in Seattle as mentioned so clue me in, is that the case? I doubt it’s a majority but are more rumblings occurring?

        • Brodie

          There was a lot of optimism up here around this year. Some analysts throwing us out there as a dark horse NFCCG or even SB contender. I think the casual fan is happy to right this off as an anomaly until we’re 1-3 or worse.

          At that point, I’d imagine we’ll have the excuses for ‘why’. I’d hash them out, but you already know what they’ll be.

          • Peter

            Florio admitted as much as Seattle being “second tier,” as a sneaky pick to make some noise this year. Not sure why. They are still stumbling from last year.

            Maybe we turn it around and detroit flounders but they finished last year as the team people should be keeping in their back pocket as a dark horse.

            Unpopular opinion to some but that 17th game shell game with green bay and Detroit and the extra playoff slotting didn’t really do us favors. Momentum for rookies argument works when the team is building upwards not falling backwards into the playoff. Going 8-8 and not getting a ticket to the dance I believe would have made this team more aggressive in making the moves it needed.

    • Peter

      I don’t listen. Will look at YouTube clips mostly to use the comments.

      • Peter

        Example Big Mike: did changes to preseason effect teams?

        Why. Why are we grasping. Half the teams won and half lost. Somehow someway teams overcame the spectre of pre-season.

        A more serious talking point would be something like:

        What are the five changes Seattle needs to do today to right the ship. And then have the folks on 710 discuss actual tangible things that can be different.

    • DC1234

      To see what kind of a person Mike Salk is. On tuesday morning broadcast he said it was funny and laughed at Rodgers getting hurt. Laughing at the jets fans. He did say not funny Rodgers got hurt.

      Who finds it humorous when other team’s players get season ending injuries.

      There is no benefit to the seahawks when rodgers got hurt. I would “kind of “ understand it more if we have the Jet’s 1st round pick.

  10. ShowMeYourHawk

    Running the gamut of replies:


    – “Why don’t you find another team to root for if you hate this one?!?!?”
    – “Glad you’re not the coach/GM!!!”
    – “Shouldn’t you be following soccer? What does a Brit know about football?!?!”

    Etc, etc, etc….

    • Rob Staton

      Hey, how do you have access to my emails 🙂

      • 805Hawk

        I suggest you stop using “TopGunIsTheBestMovieEver” as your password. Kinda obvious

        • Rob Staton


          • BK26

            That’s hilarious! 😂

        • DK

          How di you get my email password? 🙂

  11. Mick

    The thing with the D is really worrying. So many years and we don’t manage to put together a half-decent one. I think it comes from bad coaching. Like Rob said, we have invested resources and we don’t get enough from these players. I don’t believe it’s a matter of lack of skill. If you put Devon Witherspoon in Dallas or Jordyn Brooks in Philadelphia, I believe you could get top players out of them. Another issue is the injuries. From Rob’s list, Devon is out, Jordyn is just back from injury and he shouldn’t have played, Mafe, Hall and Taylor were all banged in the week before the game (no wonder we don’t get sacks, maybe Tyreke Smith would have done better), Adams can’t stay healthy. Now we’ve lost both starting tackles, and we’ll probably play in Detroit with an oldie and some fringe backup. There’s gotta be something we do wrong in conditioning training.

    • Peter

      The conditioning is suspect but the roster choices and coaching are the real problems.

      I don’t know if they’ll be mediocre at seasons end but just look to the Jets who kindly took qjeff, woods, and dj reed from us along with Robert Saleh and his staff making the bills look almost ridiculous to keep them in the game.

  12. Brodie

    RE: The home field advantage and Lumen not being as loud. It feels like a chicken/egg thing when I go there. I wasn’t at the home opener, but there have been plenty of games like it.

    Defense takes the field and the place starts rocking. Scream your guts out when it’s 3rd down, only for them to convert (often easily)… deflation. Ok, pick it back up again and scream your guts out the next 3rd down. Aaaannnnddd another conversion. After this happens 4-5 times in a drive it gets hard to yell with the same enthusiasm. When it happens a dozen times in a game and the Hawks are going 3 and out… there just isn’t a lot to cheer about.

    When the team is playing well, the stadium still rocks. When they give us so little to cheer for sometimes, it’s not a surprise that you hear more murmers than yells.

    Ironically Pete said part of the reason the defense looked bad was because they couldn’t hear. Ugh.

    • cha

      I went to two games last year: the MNF Denver opener and the Carolina game. Sat in the same exact seats.

      Night and day.

      The Denver game was electric. Everybody yelling and screaming the whole game.

      The Carolina game? My friend and I were the only ones standing, let alone yelling when the defense was on the field. It was exactly as you described. Panthers ran for 200+ yards. They ran again, and again, and again. In the third Q Kam Chancellor came on the field and he got a nice acknowledgement from the crowd but that was it.

      We left the game early. I have never, ever done that.

      • Dancingeek

        I’ve been going to the majority of home games since the end of the Holmgren era, yelling on just about every defensive down. Toward the end of the third quarter/start of the fourth was probably the first time that I just couldn’t muster enough care to keep yelling. Didn’t matter if we make noise or not, the defense was just going to continue to suck.

    • Rob Staton

      Fair points

    • PJ in Seattle

      I was there for the opener and this nails it. There are still plenty of people blowing out their lungs, but it naturally loses steam as the team continually gives up 3rd down conversions or goes 3 and out on offense. Frankly, the place should’ve been even quieter in the second half of that game when the product on the field was so repeatedly disappointing. Once the stupid unsportsmanlike penalties started coming, it was clear that the team was just falling apart on the field.

      If that’s not Pete’s fault, whose is it?

      People are paying big money to attend these games and put up with all kind of shit to attend, and we deserve better than what we saw in the home opener. I have a hard time believing Paul Allen would’ve tolerated this. At some point, you hope the current owner realizes that this is no way to run a business.

      • Nate

        All this ☝️

    • Ben

      My wife and I were season ticket holders from 2012 to 2017. There was definitely a falloff after the good years. I agree that’s it’s difficult to keep up the energy when the product on the field is painful to watch. Hearing Pete say the fans made things hard on the defense is terrible. Talk about finding any excuse for poor play.

      For old times sake, the tip and the comeback game against the Packets were incredible. People embracing and crying. Back then it felt like we were part of the team and made a little bit of difference.

    • Malc from PO

      Blue Friday check: I am working at a school today, staff of about 60. 3 Seahawks shirts. Anecdotal, sure, but there is not a ton of enthusiasm for the team right now among the casual populace.

      • Rob Staton

        Better get Macklemore on the Space Needle pronto

  13. Tezza

    Incoming 2 win season
    Incoming 1st Overall Pick
    Incoming Caleb Williams

    • Rob Staton

      It won’t happen

      • Peter

        Even if we got Williams would it matter?

        We had top seven qb play from a guy for years and it didn’t do anything.

        • Rob Staton

          Fair point

          • Santi

            If we get first overall pick good chance at 72 years old Pete will retire.

      • DC1234

        They will win the two games against Arizona.

        I am curious how the team will play if they have a bad start to the season. Will they mail it in??

        They did admit the Rams wanted it more last week and that was the first game of the year.

        • Peter

          I’ve got steelers, AZ then it starts getting murky.

          • DC1234

            They are gonna have trouble against Lions, Panthers, Giants, Bengals pass rush with their Tackles out.

            If they go 0-3, playoff is near impossible

            • Nate

              Schedule is brutal. Imo Hawks could win at best Panthers, Cards, Giants, Bucs and Commanders before week 16 Titans. 5-9. I see it as bad as just Panthers and Cards 2-12.

    • Happy Hawk

      The Hawks don’t draft Quarterbacks in the JS/PC era.

  14. Leo

    I was browsing Deloitte’s annual report about European football for fun, and they have a very simple grading system for measuring success year over year: 4 points for winning the championship, 3 points for making the final, 2 points for making the SF, and 1 point for making the QF. If you use this grading for the Pete/JS era, the five best teams since 2010 are:
    1. 25 Patriots
    2. 17 Chiefs
    3. 16 Packers
    4. 14 49ers
    5. 12 Seahawks

    Not bad, we’ve been a top 5 team in their tenure. But here are the rankings if we just look at 2010-16:
    1. 18 Patriots
    2. 11 Seahawks
    3. 11 Packers
    4. 10 Broncos
    5. 8 Ravens

    All of Pete/John’s success was with the LOB. We have only made 1 divisional round in the last six years! That is the same performance as the Browns and Texans in that span. It annoys me to no end when Pete/JS talk about “maintaining” our culture: we drifted off that standard half a decade ago. They seem to be content to win 9 games and flame out in the wild card now.

    • Rob Staton

      This is a great way of looking at it and highlighting how things have just tailed off

    • Peter

      Love this site how we get unique framing to information like this.

  15. Troy

    More fuel to the fire… When is the last time the Seahawks had a big “put the league on notice” win? I can’t think of any in the last 5-6 years.This team is boring and predictable. This weekend will be more of the same.

    • Peter

      The last time we put anyone on notice was December 9th, 16th, 23rd of 2012. When we were a team getting ready to come for the league.

      There’s been surprisingly few games where we’ve completely handled our own. And some years like ’18-19 thereabouts where we remained good but a ton of those games were close ones regardless of opponent.

      The old you win in the fourth quarter era begins.

      Just look at Sunday. There were times early where the rams were begging for us to put them in a submission hold. Nope.

      Or last year when we somehow lost to the whole nfc south and the woebegone raiders.

  16. Troy

    I see that Taylor Decker (Lions starting LT) is likely out Sunday. Just watch how we’ll make his replacement look like Anthony Munoz but our backup tackles will get beaten like a drum.

    • Ashish

      Let’s make an agreement with Lions that will not rush from left. Anyway, Seahawks are not able to generate pressure.

    • Fudwamper


      How many times have we seen this over the last 6-8 years. I remember the Redskins game with 4 3rd and 4th stringer OL and I they had an amazing offense day.

  17. Gross MaToast

    Thinking about the possibilities:

    Do I want Pete and Shane Norton Jr. selecting and working with a new QB?
    I do not.

    Do I want Pete and JS* overseeing another draft?
    Not really. It doesn’t matter who you plug into a crap system, it’s still crap.

    Do I want to see Jody choosing the new coach and GM?
    Not in this lifetime.

    The only way to avoid these calamities is for the team to be sold. Until then, for a certain percentage of the fanbase, success will be judged by how loud the ovation for Bobby might be on game day or by how spry and chipper Pete is when he’s out there slinging it around with the team.

    For the rest of the fanbase (mostly SDB readers), I don’t know…speculate endlessly about new ownership and coaching possibilities? New hobbies? Clear a little space so that you can have so many activities? We’re just killing time until May ’24.

    * – actual contributions unknown.

    • Peter

      The asterisk is perfect.

    • Roy Batty

      One of my coworkers, who is a Dallas fan, made a joke of Pete slinging it around practice. He said, “It might help this team if he WASN’T trying to be their friend.”

  18. LouCityHawk

    It is depressing that these 5 points even have to be made.

    A game like the Rams game calls for criticism, demands reflection.

    PC’s history is the only reason more fans are not calling for his head. A lesser coach would be on the hottest of seats.

    And PC has already burned so much goodwill with the fan base. The Prez trade would have claimed a lesser coach.

    If his supporters want the critics to be quiet, that all rests with PC, start winning, start competing, and leave no doubt in the doubters.

    • Joseph

      Eh, like you said it’s his history. I’m honestly starting to dislike his supporters more than the 49ers rams and cardinals lol. His supporters are stuck in the past and will come up with any excuse to keep just cause he won a SB 10 YEARS AGO. One thing I hate the most about his supporters is they always place the blame on someone else and not mention anyone who isn’t not supportive of Carroll is labeled a “bandwagon.” Lol I would I was called that at times when I wanted him gone years ago.

  19. Blitzy the Clown

    Jim Nagy @JimNagy_SB

    Good work today by #Seahawks pro personnel department poaching two promising young developmental OL off practice squads. Of Senior Bowlers who went undrafted last April, McClendon Curtis was one of biggest surprises. Very big man who can play both tackle & guard. Most teams we spoke to pre-draft had Curtis graded 5th-7th round range. Thought he was a “make-it” guy when I evaluated him last fall.

    3:49 PM · Sep 13, 2023

  20. Romeo A57

    I see that Jamal Adams is back at practice. I don’t think that he will improve this defense one bit if he in in a game, but watching footballs bounce of his helmet is at least entertaining.

    • Rob Staton

      Maybe we can put Wagner in the A-gap as a decoy to justify Jamal’s presence again, notching up manufactured sacks so Twitter can say ‘see! he’s awesome!’

      • London Seahawk

        I’ll take any kind of sack at this stage Rob manufactured or otherwise !

        • Rob Staton

          Sure but manufactured sacks just mask real problems

          They won’t improve the defense they’ll just improve one players’ statistics

          They’ll create more problems than they solve, which is why they went away from doing it in 2021

          • London Seahawk

            Good point…

            I can’t wait to watch this game v Detroit man. What kind of response are we going to see….

            I am particularly interested in the D-line where the problem looked like lack of energy/desire/effort… with the pressure on do we get a response or is this something more terminal and talent related.

            • UkAlex6674

              I’m not holding out for much against this excellent Lions O line

  21. McZ

    The really bad thing about #4 is, that in a pregame presser PC called the Rams game a “Championship game”. Translate that into “must win”. And then the team cranks out a complete implosion.

    The culture PC is talking about is long gone. It was his last major selling point.

    • Rob Staton

      But let’s not forget…

      The Rams wanted it more

      Those rascals, actually intending to play with intensity and desire

      We can’t compete with that. Hopefully future opponents will be more considerate towards our players and adjust their competitive spirit

      • Malanch

        A bit of a 2008 vibe going on with this team.

  22. London Seahawk

    I haven’t gone through the bones of this loss yet to know exactly how it all went wrong but on first read it looked like a lot of confusion and over complication… safeties and cbs running into each other or getting twisted up.

    What is odd is I thought we were trending towards simplifying the defense this year to maximise the qualities we do have which is (on paper) some speed and burst. That’s what makes it esp. puzzling… it did not look like a defense who had been coached to go and do something simple.
    The flip side to this is McVay being the master of confusing a defense so maybe there’s that bit of cope to cling to.

    My other tiny reason for optimism is that the area of the field that was picked on most Sunday is the area we should be getting our shiny new top 5 pick dropping into vs. Detroit. (Would be nice if he’d had some practice leading up to it but hey!)

    • Peter

      I’m stoked to be seeing Witherspoon hopefully this weekend. Big dose of positivity if he can go.

  23. UkAlex6674

    While we all know that it was a total shit show against LA, and carrying on from the end of last season, we also know that we will probably put one on the Lions somehow and then all of a sudden it will all be forgotten about.

    • Rob Staton

      Some might forget about it

      It’s going to take more than one win for me to forget about long lasting issues

      • UkAlex6674

        It’s so short sighted for people to say ‘it’s only one game’.

        You’d have had to have your head in the sand for years to not realise where the Seahawks are currently at.

        I always try to be optimistic in life but it’s getting real hard to be like that.

    • Roy Batty

      In the past, Goff beat this team with a broken thumb. He’s healthy and now on a team of alphas.

      This. Will. Get. Ugly.

      • Tatupu51

        I grabed Goff in any fantasy league he was available and I’m starting the Lions defense in all my fantasy teams.

    • Malanch

      “We also know that we will probably put one on the Lions …” –Alex

      We know that? I didn’t know that. I still don’t know that.

      • UkAlex6674

        It would be classic Carroll.

        He’s flushing down the shitter rapidly.

        But one win against the current darlings of the NFL would in the minds of the majority if Seattle fans completely wipe all of the crap of the past (at least) 10 games or so.

        Then like a stubborn turd he floats back up the shitter again.

    • Malc from PO

      I agree, we’ll narrowly beat the Lions. This team is totally vexing.

      • Rob Staton

        Wouldn’t be surprised

    • Brodie

      You’re not wrong. I can totally see things playing out like that. We beat the Lions in Detroit when the whole world is picking them to boat race us. Then we come home and lose to Carolina for Bryce Young’s first career W.

      1-2 and yet the fact that “we beat the Lions at home shows that we’ve got what it takes to compete with anyone.”

      One thing I’ve learned over the past 5 years of this iteration of the team is to expect the unexpected. Just last week I would have thought we win, but have trouble defending the run. Pass defense and our offense should look good though. Well, exactly the opposite. The only thing I can rely on these days is that we are going to lose the time-of-possession battle in almost every game.

      • Brodie

        Also, that we’ll lead the league in challenge’s lost and timeouts taken in the 1st and 3rd Q,

  24. Tatupu51

    I’m optimistic by nature and I’ve fought with overly negative commenters in this site. But after sunday I can’t defend the Carroll regime anymore.

    Enough is enough. Change is needed in 2024.

    • BK26

      After last week, fans that I thought would never be fore change or getting rid of Pete have finally changed their minds.

      It’s not the unity that we hope for as fans, but there a quite a few now getting on the same page.

    • Big Mike

      I’m optimistic by nature and I’ve fought with overly negative commenters in this site. But after sunday I can’t defend the Carroll regime anymore.

      Enough is enough. Change is needed in 2024.

      Sorry you had to join us in the sad reality that is the Pete Carroll program. I wish you’d been right and I and others had been wrong.

  25. Denver Hawker

    If anyone is hoping a sale will quickly come to change things, here’s a comment from NBA commish re:Blazers that isn’t promising:

    • Peter

      Just some change is what I want. Pete, Tomlin, John Harbaugh, all good coaches all have most likely been in their spots too long. Maybe John Harbaugh gets it done one last time but the ravens haven’t been much more relevant than us even with Lamar and the rest of the power in the AFC has shifted.

      I know it feels like the order of operations goes:

      1. Sell team

      2. New owner says this has been nice time for something new.

      3. Something new.

      I worry that the most logical buyer appears to be Bezos. Maybe he’s way into it. I’ve never really seen anything that demonstrates he’s into football/ sport.

      Maybe John stays and picks a new head coach?

      My worry is there’s really no reason for her to sell. And we become the saints and completely flatline for years because the owner does not care as long as the checks keep coming in.

    • Big Mike

      The fact that she had an offer from Phil Knight to buy the Blazers, the single most logical person in Oregon to sell the team to, and she turned him down does not bode well for a sale of the Seahawks I’m afraid. I think the only thing that might bump her along more quickly is the sheer amount of money a sale of the Hawks will bring in comparison to the Blazers. 7 billion is not out of the question and certainly 6 is almost a lock.

      • Brodie

        I don’t think she get the proceeds of a sale though, does she? Wouldn’t a sale create the liquidity required to disperse the money to the charities and causes that Paul laid out?

        Once the estate is closed out, all these lawyers stop billing and Jodi – while I’m sure will be living a multi-million dollar lifestyle, won’t be around the A-list people that owning a pro franchise provides.

        Some version of the board will remain as fiduciary overseers of the funds, but I’m guessing that some fat will need to be trimmed as it only takes so many members to run an endowment.

        Maybe I’m sinical, but the sooner a lot of these people do their jobs, the sooner they’ll likely be without one.

        • Big Mike

          I think you’re spot on here. Not something I thought of but your logic is spot on imo.
          No, she doesn’t realize the money from the sale and yes, I’m sure she’s been set up by Paul to live the lifestyle of a multi-millionaire.

          Again, does not bode well for a sale of the Seahawks sometime after May 24th.

    • cha

      I’ll keep saying this: when a franchise’s value doubles every 5 years, it’s not difficult to imagine it is put on the back burner and other estate assets are focused on divesting first.

      • Big Mike

        This too.
        I believe we’re stuck with Carroll until his contract is up and I think that was her long range plans as to about when to sell. After the 2025 season. Sigh.

        Is it possible he resigns? Sure. Not likely based on his personality tho imo.

  26. geoff u

    All spot on, not really much to add. My very random thoughts:

    -It seems pretty apparent too that post LOB, prime Russell Wilson played a big part in masking a lot of problems with the defense and run game. It showed in the playoff games, where more complete teams destroyed us.

    -And it really really bothers me that there still appears to be no real plan to get a franchise QB after trading him. At least with the Clevland trade rumor, the plan was to get Josh Allen (assuming it’s true).

    -Also, there are so many franchise QBs out there now, just having that isn’t enough anymore.

    -This is such an offensive league now thanks to all the rule changes, I agree entirely on getting an offensive minded head coach so they don’t get poached if OC. Makes so much sense. Question is: do we trust Schneider to pick them? Will Schneider be better or worse without Pete? I wonder what Schneider’s vision is, if given the power to choose these things? I’d actually like to find out. That would be up to new owners though.(beyond Pete)?

    • Peter

      John’s in a weird situation. If and when his time comes there won’t be any cover from the ever ebullient coach. Much like Pete before getting cover from a qb who could pull rabbits out of a hat when the running game didn’t show up or he thought the tandem of Hyder and Mayowa would be good enough until that didn’t work.

      John won’t get the “new,” gm rub. If it doesn’t work right off the jump I’d imagine even lay-fans might start to wonder about a guy who has been here at that point 15+ years.

      We’re going on 10 years without being a power. Our own division rivals have been to the NFC championship game multiples of times without us even sniffing at that.

      • geoff u

        It’s really not that complicated to have success in this league. They should hire me to make the decision:

        Step 1: Hire an innovated young offensive-minded head coach with a vision, a plan, and leadership qualities.
        Step 2: Do whatever it takes to get them a franchise QB.

        Now obviously finding the right guy and the QB can be difficult as hell, but the goals are also as simple as hell. Stop wasting time on an “always compete” head coach who can’t field a playoff caliber competitive team. Stop making dumb trades for anyone who isn’t a franchise QB.

        • BobbyK

          And, really, “Always ComPete” can be too narrow minded. There’s no vision to think long-term, only “Win Forever” now – but at the cost of winning long-term (I believe winning long-term to mean the team has legit Super Bowl aspirations… this team just wins enough to fool you into thinking “at least they don’t suck” but even if the record is good you know darn well there’s been no serious challenge for a Super Bowl for a long, long time).

          But they’re good at winning enough not to get fired. I guess that’s good. For them.

  27. Jeff

    Hey Rob,

    Regarding home field (dis)advantage, I’ve been thinking the same things for the past few years. I wonder if the fans need to adjust when they make noise to be effective. Offensive football seems to have progressed past the point of being affected by noise, due to silent counts and scheme adjustments. I would argue that loud noise affects the defense more because their schemes are reactive to what the offense does, and is check-reliant. If the DBs cant hear the Mike, they are likely to be out of position. I’d be curious to see what a modern day home field offense does with loud crowd noise hindering the checks of the defense, and likewise a quiet crowd helping a defense react appropriately.

    • Sea Mode

      Well, I don’t think this is really true. The offense actually “audibles” more based on the look that the defense shows them, and they need to hear the QB, whereas the defense usually communicates with each other via hand signals.

  28. RomeoA57

    Pete should have been let go once the Russ Trade was finalized. As stated previously, this team has been very mediocre since 2017, there has been ample time to field a contending team.

    I hate to say it, but things are going to have to get real ugly this season if we want to see Carroll leave. I am seeing that a lot more Seahawks Fans are agreeing that it is time for Pete to leave, so that is a start. Losing by double digits to the Lions this week could be a fire starter under Pete. Detroit has to be riding high after beating the champs last week, so maybe they are in for a letdown though.

    The Seahawks are with out both their starting OTs, and if the horrid defense does get Jamal Adams back to contribute nothing on the field this Sunday, this game could get ugly fast.

  29. Big Mike

    Chris Simms again calling out the Seahawks offensive approach this time in he and Florio’s weekly exercise in picking games for the upcoming week. Said Seattle is “too much about Jimmys and Joes without enough focus on Xs and Os. Hey DK just run a slant here and that’ll be good. But it’s not good enough.”

    • Rob Staton

      Same on defense

      Carroll has always relied on personnel

      • Big Mike

        Except when he used Wagner blitzing the A gap to make Adams look worth the price paid. There’s an actual scheme.
        (Couldn’t resist)

      • Malc from PO

        That’s an excellent point. The reason I prefer NFL to CFB is because it’s a coaches’ league: it’s not just the best athletes monstering lesser human beings. I love when a good scheme beats the opponent. Not seen that at the Seahawks for a long time.

        • MattG

          Pretty sure I just saw that last week.

  30. BoiseSeahawk

    Until the franchise is sold by Jody Allen I don’t see any major changes coming unless Pete walks away. But if we could be ultra aggressive this offseason I’d be interested to see the Seahawks hire Eagles OC Brian Johnson as the next HC and then drafting one of Ewers or Penix.

  31. 509 Chris

    I have to wonder if Pete will be afraid to tarnish his legacy in Seattle and step down. Last year we started talking about it or Rob did I should say, but the mirage of success happened against mostly bad teams during the first half of the season following a lucky slide into the wildcard round. I don’t believe the team will be so lucky this year though. When the fans start calling for his head I think it’ll hurt him deep. This site isn’t the only part of Seahawks fandom thats frustrated. I saw the comments from that Salk article and it was everyone saying what I’m thinking about Salk and the Seattle media in general.

    I think Paul Allen never would have let Pete go this far. If his health was better maybe he doesn’t even give him the 2018 reset, who knows though? (PC and JS earned the right to try it again imo) If Pete does walk away and I think he will if they have a rough season, I wonder who makes the final decisions about a new coach? Does JS stay around too? A lot of unknowns on the horizon and I fear if the right people aren’t put in place the good drafts and the Russ trade capital could be wasted.

    • cha

      Good on Salk to give the article a fair shake.

      • Rob Staton


        • Peter

          Nicely done Rob.

          30 minute mark for those of you searching.

          Still a bit of shrugging off the information all in all I think they gave it a good go over.

    • Romeo A57

      I just listened to their discussion of you article. It was interesting that Salk was more open-minded while Brock was quickly dismissive of your arguments.

    • Scot04

      I noticed after tge reading on KJR a couple outher posts about the defense came out as well as more on YouTube.
      Great write up Rob.
      Glad it’s getting the traction and follow ups it deserves.

  32. Anthony

    Brock is quick to defend Pete more than Salk. But I’ll give credit to Salk for listening and having the discussion, unlike other media members outside of the SDB community.

    • Rob Staton

      I’ve never had large chunks of an article read out on air

      Appreciate Mike doing that today

      He was also right — it was a poor choice of words for me to say the Seahawks are in the majority middle. I should’ve found a better way of describing them being on the outside of the elite

      • Group Captain Mandrake

        I don’t know, “majority middle” seems pretty accurate. They don’t suck, and they are good enough to edge into the playoffs regularly, but we all know that they aren’t making a deep run without a lot of luck. They are not that team that no one wants to play. Maybe we call them “upper middle class” instead.

  33. Big Mike

    I’m shocked they did this, but very pleased for you Rob.
    Brock: being dismissive of other people’s point if view when it’s counter to yours makes for bad radio and puts you in a poor light.

  34. cha

    Minn vs Philly

    C Garrett Bradbury is out. OT Christian Darrisaw is on the sideline.

    Against the best DL in the NFL.

    The Vikings are moving the ball just fine.

    You watching, Seahawks?

    • icb12

      I’d prefer the Seahawks don’t emulate the Vikings. Good grief, the ball security is atrocious.

      The eagles though. That last td drive .. thing of beauty. Give me QB sneaks for TDs all damn day long.

    • cha

      The Vikings ran the ball 9 times for 28 yards.

      Their OL was badly banged up.

      Playing the best DL in football.

      How did Kirk Cousins do?

      31 for 44, 364 passing yards, 4TD, 0INT, 125 QB rating and 2 sacks.

      Justin Jefferson had 13 targets and caught 11 of them. Hockenson and Addison had a combined 13 targets and caught 10.

      They lost the turnover battle 4-1 and still came within a TD of beating one of the best teams in the NFL.

      That was mighty impressive. Kevin O’Connell has chops.

      • Peter

        Almost double our offensive output from sunday…. Against the eagles.i don’t know how the vikings finish the season but that feels more like a pulse than us.

        • cha

          They constantly found ways to get the ball into the hands of their playmakers.

          They – wait for it – adjusted their playbook to the fact that they didn’t have time to throw and let Jefferson have a matchup with Slay.

          They had TJH running all kinds of creative routes. They bunched formations to get guys open quickly and Cousins got rid of the ball quickly and stood tall and took a beating when he didn’t and still got the ball out.

          • Rob Staton


            We should try that!

            • Big Mike

              Novel idea

              • Big Mike

                I mean as I posted yesterday Simms said (paraphrasing) they lack creativity in their offensive scheme.

      • Tien

        Agree with you about their offensive performance against the Eagles, cha. They lost the game because of the dumb untimely turnovers and not because their starting C and LT were out.

        I was also impressed with their defense. The Eagles did score a lot of points but arguably some of those points were due to gifted good field position from turnovers by the Vikings offense and special teams. The Vikings defense was horrible last year so they fired their defensive coordinator and brought in Brian Flores, who installed a more aggressive attacking defense. Granted, they couldn’t stop the Eagles running game but they contained the Eagles passing game and Jalen Hurts. I would have loved to have Brian Flores coaching this defense.

        • UkAlex6674

          When is a turnover NOT untimely?

  35. clbradley17

    How are you evaluating TVD of Miami, FL this year. He had another great game, but was playing against a lesser team like in the 1st game. He only played the 1st half and had 2 TDs and was 19 of 23. Against a very good Texas A & M team last week, he had 5 TDs and 0 ints. Think he’s another day 2 prospect if he keeps this up?

    • Rob Staton

      See my article this week on QB’s

  36. MattyB

    The whole organization is in a suspended time pause since Allen passed. There is no accountability, the owner needs act either by making changes within management and coaching or selling – i just dont buy all this bullshit about when is the right time to move on – fans are paying big money to watch their team knowing deep down that we have very little chance of winning anything major. The fans will turn this season within the stadium and make thier feelings heard which hasnt happened over the last ten seasons.

    • Joseph

      Jody Allen, I don’t think is capable of running a franchise. Look what’s going on with the trailblazers. That’s probably why she lets Pete and John run the show. To be honest i can’t stand Pete Carroll fans. I dislike them more than 49ers rams and cardinals haha. They delude themselves into believing Pete is gonna win another SB, it’s not gonna happen. And these fans are stuck in the past. They wanna keep him just because he won a sb 10 YEARS AGO and they place the blame on everyone but Pete. We’re too vanilla and predictable on offense and defense. We’ve been that way for years even during Russell’s early years. Pete is too stubborn to realize that his ways are not effective like they were in the early years. His fans are irritating because they come up with every excuse to keep him and anyone that goes against them is labeled a bandwagon. Not to mention the poor drafts. Last year somewhat an exception. 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, were all bad drafts. Sure we had a few hits but mostly misses. And I can’t tell you how many good players were on the board but Pete and John chose random cause I guess they wanted to outsmart everyone. I’m still mad about not getting Creed Humphreys and the Malik McDowell pic.

  37. Big Mike

    Brock: “They were picking in the 20s” and said that 3 times.
    So bored with that excuse. Good players are found all over the draft. We’ve discussed their misses many times here. No need to go over them again. Other teams miss too and no one expects perfection in the draft but some of theirs are particularly egregious, especially Chubb.
    Oh and hey Brock, they didn’t have a chance to even pick in the 20s 2 years in a row cuz of Adams. Why didn’t you balance out your statement with that little factoid?

    • Rob Staton

      2018 — 18th pick
      2019 — 21st pick
      2020 — 27th pick
      2021 – 23rd pick
      2022 – 10th pick
      2023 – 20th pick

      Average pick placing 19.8

    • Denver Hawker

      I thought he also acknowledged they haven’t been contenders either. What’s the difference between “the middle” and 1st round exits? It’s an easier schedule- that’s the difference.

    • Peter

      I hate this team but the Patriots picked 21 or later 11 times in 15 years once the Brady era began. Didn’t seem to be an issue for them.

      It’s such a pathetic excuse…”oh no the league is making it hard.”

      Scoreboard Brock. Scoreboard. Pretty sure the lowly Rams rolled out a secondary that had something like 75 total games played between them all and a bunch of late rounders.

      Fans of this blog can line out name after name in our draft ranges the team should have picked. All late firsts and seconds. The all chalk team. Watt, Humphries, Chubb, etc…

      • Big Mike

        Pretty sure the lowly Rams rolled out a secondary that had something like 75 total games played between them all and a bunch of late rounders.

        And THAT is coaching

        • Peter

          From the coach the “invented,” resting his starters in preseason.

    • VanHawk

      I think you may have misunderstood Brock.

      When he said “they were picking in the 20s” it was in reference to the fact that Rob’s article said they were a middle of the pack team. Brock said that that they have not been in the majority middle evidenced by the fact that they have been drafting in the 20s, which would imply top 1/3. He was not arguing that they have not been above majority middle as a result of their low drafting poisition.

      • Big Mike

        I completely disagree. I saw it has him saying it was a hindrance to building through then draft.
        Other folks here? What do you all think?

        • VanHawk

          Salk: ” I could argue that they’re better than the majority middle…”….Brock: “Well they have drafted in the 20s all those years for a reason…”

          How do you completely disagree??

          Hard to have discourse when some people just hear what they want to hear.

          • Rob Staton


  38. Dingbatman

    I just requested to Brock and Salk that they bring Rob on live as a guest. I’d love to hear that back and forth

    • Big Mike

      Awesome. Thanks for doing that. It would be great wouldn’t it?

    • Palatypus

      Rob is too maverick for Brock Huard.

      Brock Huard is not ready for the danger zone.

  39. LouCityHawk

    Weekend CFB watchlist (EST times):

    It is still that Cream Puff time of year in CFB….

    I’ll be in person at Lucas Oil for IU v Louisville, of interest to no one other than me. If you aren’t me, Illinois vs Penn St promises to feature a bunch of players that will be talked about in the 2024 draft process.

    Georgia v. Rattler (South Carolina) will be the must see for the 3:30 slot. I’ll also be checking in to see how Drake Maye and Riley Leonard look against two of the lower tier B1G 10 schools.

    7:00pm Michigan St. hosts UW (Huskies) and that should be a good look at multiple Husky players (Penix, Trice, Odunze, ZTF, Fautanu), MichSt defense is good – but that Mel Tucker situation could go two ways.

    8:00pm Texas hosts Wyoming… Wyoming usually plays well above its weight, and I’ll be interested to see how multiple Texas players…headlined by Ewers…react after their big win against Bama.

    10:00pm Colorado vs. Colorado St — Sanders show to end the day, CSt. couldn’t stop WaSt last week – this will be a blowout.

    Looking ahead to next weekend: Clemson/FSU, Utah/UCLA, Bama/OleMiss, Ducks/PrimeCO, WSU/OSU (Pac-12 Hunger Game?), LSU/Ark, Irish/Buckeye, PennSt/Iowa, Baylor/Texas (always good)…that is a big belly full of games.

    • BK26

      Rattler is impressing with how bad his team is. It’s been nice to see him stay in control. He definitely wouldn’t be doing that this time last year. Team is getting demolished but he’s coming through.

      • BK26

        *Despite how bad his team is.

        Can’t remember someone doing that to this level.

      • LouCityHawk

        I’m VERY interested to see how he performs against Georgia. It will be the best look we get at Rattler against a buzz-saw type defense. Will give some good comps

  40. 509 Chris

    Jordan Addison is on an amazing start. Hope we don’t have another Penny Chubb kind of pick here.

    • Peter

      Puka Nacua says hi.

    • Denver Hawker

      Zay Flowers looking legit too.

      That said, Vikes got JJ #1 and no clear #2, Ravens have a similar lack of WR talent. JSN sits next to DK and Lockett so his usage should be reasonably lower. Will be difficult to assess a comparison this year whether they got the right WR or not.

      Penny Chubb fiasco was also pretty different in that we all liked Chubb and was an obvious Seahawk guy. The irony of all of it is the injury issues for Penny not Chubb. JSN had the injury coming into the draft so at least they still went talent over injury risk this time.

      • Peter

        Big believer in assessing after a season.

      • geoff u

        Penny would’ve been a great pick had he stayed healthy. Lifetime 5.7 ypc. Also, he had no injury issues in college, so it’s massive bummer that it’s all he’s had in the pros. I can’t really fault them for the pick.

    • LouCityHawk

      Playing next to JJ….

      I remember Alvin Harper…NFL History is loaded with some real impressive WR2 options, Addison is a WR2. Playing next to the best receiver in the league will bump up your stats.

      Zay is doing it by himself.

    • Olyhawksfan

      I would argue it’s more a coaching/scheme thing than talent. I bet if JSN was out there last night he would have been productive.

  41. Volume12

    5 guys and a bonus player:

    – Troy Fautanu, OL, Udub: plays LT but gonna be a guard in the league. Moves extremely well, some of the best UOH I’ve seen so far in limited viewing. Powerful in the run game. Athletic and smarts give him great versatility too. I think he’ll go high. Too high for Seattle?

    – T’Vondre Sweat, DT, Texas: Massive NT. Is too big for a team like Seattle? Eats 2 blocker every snap and still contributes. Definition of a wall in the run game. Quick enough feet to play contain. Its impressive to see someone so disruptive at his size.

    – Jaylen Ford, LB, Texas: Ballhawk. Excellent coverage LB which is what Seattle lacks IMO. Good instincts in the box. Looks like a natural. Insane production last year.

    – Aaron Beasley, LB, Tennessee: 1 of the more modern, ‘smaller’ LBs we’re starting to see. Enough size for Seattle @ the position? Leads the country in TFL. Plays with his hair on fire. Has a violence to his game that I love. Sound tackler, he’s literally everywhere for that D as their anchor. Monster. Enjoy watching him play.

    – JJ McCarthy, QB, Michigan: dont love the pocket presence just yet, but theres something there w/ him. Athletic enough to move when in trouble, extremely efficient, that arm of his is live. Keeps his eyes downfield, fits the ball into tight windows. Has made a LOT of NFL throws so far.

    *bonus player*
    – Jaden Hicks, S, Wazzu: physical, physical, physical. Thumper w/ great size. Great instincts, explosive. Destroyed Wisconsin. Hes a playmaker. A little of Jamal Adams @ LSU in his game. As a R-SO, does he declare this year?

  42. LouCityHawk

    Lots of cross posters between theses sites, but a good discussion happening in FG re this post.

    • Rob Staton

      I can imagine just how that discussion is going

      Same posters complaining about SDB

      Etc etc

      • BK26

        You would be right about the discussion. But…not anywhere near as much as normal. Overall frustration is real with the team and a lot of people agreed with the article who definitely hadn’t in the past.

        To a few (some who even agree with the premise of the article even if they won’t openly admit it), mentioning you is like cursing their mother.

        And for Pete’s sake (literally) qUiT wRiTiNg ClIcK bAiTy ArTiClEs!!!

        • Rob Staton

          Ah, someone on there mentioned clickbait.

          Accusing people of clickbait is a classic sign of not actually having any arguments. It’s just a lazy stock phrase in place of a coherent argument.

          It’s a free blog FFS. What am I baiting people to do?

          • Palatypus


          • James Z

            Apparently, having a Patreon account is suspect as you’re raking in Big $$$ doing this… Perhaps one of the laziest comments I’ve ever seen on FG.

            • Rob Staton

              Yeah I bait you in and once you’ve read the mourish, addictive words you can’t help but… take out a full Patreon subscription

              I’d have got away with it too if it wasn’t for you pesky kids

              • Palatypus

                Pretty sure it was the dog.

          • nfendall

            I may be wrong, but I think BK is criticizing Field Gulls for writing clickbait articles.

            • Rob Staton

              I know — and I was playing off that

              • nfendall

                My bad. I have my woosh moments from time to time.

            • BK26

              No, Rob was getting labeled as click baiting. Supposedly writing about Pete getting fired gets more views, so “he pushes that narrative.”

              • Rob Staton

                Reality is, positivity gets wayyyyyy more clicks/views

                Not even close

          • cha

            Accusing people of clickbait is a classic sign of not actually having any arguments.

            The new one is ‘bias’

            If you don’t agree with me, I tag you as biased so I get to paint you as unreasonable without even counterarguing.

            • Rob Staton

              It’s impossible to just have a different opinion now

              You’ve got to be accused of having some kind of agenda

    • Gary Garland

      I found this comment to be enlightening and possibly a valid reason for alot of the problems.

      My current theory is that he doesn’t think dink and dunk is a reliable way to move the ball down the field (despite plenty of evidence to the contrary), so not only won’t he use it himself, but he doesn’t bother defending against it. I’m going to say he assumes the other team will eventually throw a pick or an incompletion on third down, so don’t worry about it. In fact, invite them to do it.

      Not an angle I had thought about before. But the pure hubris of it all would fit with how Pete has acted over the past few/10 seasons.

  43. Rob Staton

    D-line update:

    — Mike Morris lasted one week

    — They are already holding Jarran Reed out of Friday practises to protect him, after one game

    • Elmer

      Mighty fine depth. Let’s see if they can elevate Gotel from the PS for this week.

    • cha

      Is it the same shoulder injury Morris missed camp with?

      Yes it is. Did he play with a shore shoulder on Sunday against the Rams?

      Yes he did.

      Are we just wishing that players will magically get better in order to be available, let alone effective?

      Yes we are.

  44. All I see is 12s

    I for one, do not find it an accident that all of these injuries occur on the same week that leaders of the team are claiming that the other team “wanted it more” and the results on the field look like the team just came out flat. Pete Carroll defensive and motivational mastermind. He has done neither.

  45. Rob Staton

    Wonder why they aren’t showing press conferences live any more

    • cha

      Maybe they’re trying to find a way to clean up the audio in post. Everyone under the sun has been asking for the audio to get better.

      Some are very hit and miss.

      That’s all I can think of.

      • ShowMeYourHawk

        Question: At the press conferences, who’s the journalist that continually asks about Bobby? Asked about Bobby’s speech today, asked about Bobby’s ovation in the postgame conference. Same voice but I can’t associate it. I get that Seattle press is fluff but this one dude seems to wrap his whole line of questions about Wagner. Anyone know who this is?

        • Justaguy

          Seahawks plant

  46. sam denny

    I think the problem has been with the personal more than the schemes. They have chosen to spend on the secondary and linebackers over the defensive line. They have drafted running backs over guards and centers up front. Look at the eagles, they commit resources to the line and physically punish teams. The Seahawks have a bunch of tweener 3-4 rush ends and no beef. Ever since the unger trade we have lost our identity.

  47. KnoxHawk

    I hope Pete pulls a rabbit out of his hat, win the super bowl, and rides off into the sunset. Is that to much to ask for?!

    Random thought, I wonder how Richard Sherman would be as a defensive coach, potentially a coordinator at some point.

    Also, the comments and understanding that the Seahawks lacked effort last week is extremely concerning, perhaps the most concerning thing. Beyond scheme, talent, etc. Effort is Pete bread and butter, and if we don’t have that, what the hell are we doing?

    I understand effort ebbs and flows throughout the weeks, but not showing up on your home field week one in a season with decently high expectations is unacceptable.

  48. KnoxHawk

    Also, I was slightly impressed with the Florida QB. On the other hand, Tennessee’s QB Milton seems like an arrogant kid who loves to miss throws and can’t properly lead a team. I don’t know him obviously, but that’s what I feel through the TV screen.

  49. Pran

    That play is why Geno sucks.. You can’t win games playing dumb

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