We’re now 12 days into free agency. Bruce Irvin is still the only move so far to try and fix Seattle’s pass rush.
One player in (Irvin) and one player out (Quinton Jefferson).
There’s still no sign of a breakthrough with Jadeveon Clowney. Everson Griffen is no closer to joining a new team. Nobody’s traded for Yannick Ngakoue or Matt Judon.
It’s strange that the market has ground to a halt with so much yet to be resolved.
It’s tempting to say this could benefit the Seahawks. They’re one of the teams still actively needing to fix a glaring weakness and some options actually remain.
Yet it’ll only take one tweet to send the off-season spiralling into a crisis. ‘Clowney signs with… another team‘. Josina Anderson noting she just got off the phone with Jadeveon and he says it was the best move for him. Etc Etc.
Then a mad scramble presumably to bring in Griffen and set up book-end 33-year-old pass rushers. Hardly the recipe for better defending the perimeter and stretch run.
It might force them to be aggressive in a trade for Ngakoue. Yet if they’re not willing to pay Clowney or Frank Clark top money — why would Ngakoue be any different?
Everything seems to hinge on Clowney and whatever money they’re left with.
I’ve been considering one scenario today.
What if Baltimore rescinds the tag on Matt Judon and signs Clowney?
Earlier they broke off their arrangement with Michael Brockers. Clowney is a very different player. You might think they’ll do something in light of the Brockers news, however.
Judon’s tag is $15.8m. Would they be willing to give Clowney $16m for a season? Essentially pass Judon’s tag to him? There’s no doubt in my mind who’s the better player and Baltimore could be an attractive proposition. They are primed for a Super Bowl run and use an attacking, aggressive defensive scheme.
It could be the ideal scenario for Clowney to re-enter the market in a years time.
That could potentially allow the Seahawks to make an offer to Judon — although he probably wouldn’t be cheap and wouldn’t be the same quality of player.
The Ravens could also put out the message to send your best trade offer for Judon and they’ll just take what they can. They might prefer to do right by the player though and let him choose his next destination and contract.
I’m starting to wonder how long Clowney will wait this out. All the way to the draft? It’s not like more money will emerge down the line. Have teams asked him to be patient until they can do a medical?
There might currently be some sense in Seattle waiting and hoping he decides to stick around. Yet they also can’t go into the draft without clarity here. You also wonder if Clowney will develop any resentment considering they’re the one team with the medical info and they’ve not stepped up to get this sorted — yet equally haven’t signed anyone else or moved on.
It’s also a little strange that of all the positions they appear hesitant to spend it’s the pass rush. They seem to be rejecting the rapid market increase at the position. That’s fine if you can still find solutions. But if you’re getting guys like Ziggy Ansah trying to penny pinch — all you’re going to do is waste another season.
They can’t afford to do that.
What will be the bigger regret in five years? That they spent money on a quality young pass rusher and it didn’t quite work out — or that they didn’t add that piece and the lack of pressure cost them during Russell Wilson’s prime years?
Tomorrow I will video another simulation that involves a trade for Ngakoue. I’ve also got some interesting things lined up this week so stay tuned.
You can now support Seahawks Draft Blog via Patreon by clicking the tab below.
My first thought when I saw the Brockers news was that I hope the Ravens dont go after Clowney, now.
It makes some sense, though.
Do the Ravens run a 4-3 or 3-4 defense?
Wondering if Clowney would be and end, or OLB there.
It’s a very aggressive, creative scheme switching between 34 and 43. Blitz heavy. Lots of different looks.
Clowney would play end.
I have to believe at this point Seattle has little interest in retaining Clowney…nothing else makes sense?
I have to disagree there. Although I don’t like it anymore than anyone else, I think there are possibilities that exist where the Seahawks in fact do want Clowney, however, they just want him on their terms. Just because they haven’t signed him doesn’t mean they’re not interested in him.
They might be trying to move a player we don’t expect, like Justin Britt, in say a trade with Jacksonville. When a Dunbar move happens it’s always outside our peripheral vision. We are all myopic here.
I think you nailed it Rob he would be ideal for their scheme and they are clearly in win now mode.
I think there is about a 1% chance they dont want Clowney.
In this scenario, then Judon is a FA, Seattle could scoop him up and then do the trade with Jacksonville…. DT and DE problems almost solved. The cost in money would be pretty steep however, since both want top shelf deals. Interesting scenario. Talk about lighting the NFL FA on fire in 2020.
Well, it would depend how much Judon cost.
And neither Judon or Ngakoue have great physical profiles. You wonder if their production would translate. Maybe it would? But we’re not talking about a Clowney, Clark type physical talent. I’d rather gamble big money on Clark’s profile than Ngakoue’s or Judon’s.
It does feel like the Ravens are all in for the next 2 years. They got to get to the promised land before Jackson gets his fat 40M/yr deal. I would take Clowney over most options as the Baltimore front office.
Its a very realistic possibility. The Ravens fit in the contender category that Clowney was looking for. They also have Calais now who should help free things up for Clowney to put up better stats…
If Hawks did make a trade, would Judon or YN be a better scheme fit for Seattle? I assume YN could fit in to LEO position very well. Not sure about Judon. I think the worse outcome would be overpaying for a DL who doesnt fit in our scheme well.
Ngakoue more of the LEO type.
Another mock for another day / another 20 minutes blown at home on the computer 🙂
44. Isaiah Wilson – OT Georgia
59. Jordan Elliott – DT Missouri
64. Logan Wilson – ILB Wyoming
101. Gabriel Davis – WR UCF
107. Robert Hunt – G Louisiana
122. Hunter Bryant – TE Washington
133. Michael Ojemudia – CB Iowa
146. Ke’Shawn Vaughn – RB Vanderbilt
190. Yasir Durant – OT Missouri
214. Steven Montez – QB Colorado
240. Carlos Davis – DT Nebraska
248. Javelin Guidry – S Utah
+2021 CIN 3rd
+2021 PHI 6th
-2021 SEA 4th
-2021 SEA 6th
Why doesn’t Seattle just raise the ante a bit and try to get this over? I realize they’re trying to be judicious with their cap – but it seems to be putting a crimp in their team-building process. They’re taking a pretty good chance at blowing a necessary thing over a seemingly minor amount of cap.
Players go a little bit crazy during this process. He could be starting to take it too personally. Seattle could be misreading his thoughts and feelings – and vice verse.
.
I agree. Just cut TT and get the deal done.
I don’t understand why anyone would prefer the Hawks trade for Ngakoue than sign Clowney. Clowney should be options A, B and C right now IMO followed up by a Everson Griffen signing then hope Irvin can play the LEO role this year while a 1st pick like Okwara has time to develop.
Agreed. If we miss out on clowney I’d hope they go after Chris Jones. Regardless of need at DE we need difference makers and quality on the DL. But let’s just sign Clowney.
KC won’t move Jones
I am of the very same opinion in regards to player selection.
Also, the phrase, “Pennywise and dollar foolish” keeps ringing in my ears regarding the current Clowney situation.
Points for Pennywise reference with Clown(ey)…
The Brockers deal was nixed because of a physical by an outside doctor. I wonder if that wouldn’t give Clowney’s side pause. Also, I wonder if Ravens would feel like Clowney fits their scheme better than Judon. With that said, I think this will end in a surprising way and it may very well be with Clowney signing somewhere else. At least it will break the logjam so everyone can move forward. Hawks will be in position to do something creative at that point.
Or the Seahawks more likely will just be in a worse situation overall trying to scramble to get the pass rush players they need after losing Clowney.
It’s possible they’ll be scrambling, but I get the sense they always have a plan, and they are always looking to improve. Clearly, they are waiting in hopes that Clowney finally signs with them. But I’m sure Pete and John are not using this time to cross their fingers. They’re on it. If they lose Clowney, they’ll move quickly to the next thing. They’ve been very consistent in that regard.
I agree. I’m sure they have back up plans. However plan B, C, D, are rarely as good as plan A.
It makes me want to tune out completely. I don’t know about Clowney but it’s making me very resentful of the front office. If the Ravens sign Clowney I almost hope that we go 2 and 14 with Michael Bennett, Ziggy Ansah and one more shot at Dion Jordan. I’m sick of the cleverness. Its been two weeks. It is safe to say that the culture was not enough to hobble Clowney into a team friendly deal. Give him a deadline. Sign, don’t sign. Fix the pass rush before we all remember that 2019 Clowney was a Bill O’Brien boondoggle more than a PC/JS masterstroke. We stepped in a golden turd on our way to Century Link with Ziggy and Barkevious Mingo. I don’t believe we’ll be so lucky again.
But what do I know?
As long as Russell Wilson is playing, this team will not go 2-14.
All I can say is uggh. This offseason has so far proven to be very disappointing. I know a number of people thought you should be more positive and upbeat in this blog or with your assessments, I think you’ve been spot on. There’s too much unquestioned faith in decisions made by this front office. Too much belief in upsides of marginal free agents signed just because they’re new to the team (I think people are even more excited by Dorset than they were in Brown when he signed, I don’t see much difference). There also an awful lot of expectation that we can just trade for what we’re missing, I don’t think that’s quite as sure of a thing. The planning, or lack thereof, this offseason with the obvious needs of the team seem to have us on plan C of D by now. Just because you think you can forcibly lowball a key member of your defense doesn’t mean you should. It’s really inexcusable that the defense has not been the primary target for this entire offseason. I certainly hope we don’t have to spend another year hearing how we like the guys we got and how we can coach them up. That sounds like a completely wasted year based on an unhealthy amount of caution. Hope this gets better fast.
I tell it how I see it. Always have, always will.
Wish a few others would. Too many agendas out there.
Based on JS/PC interview we know they are looking for pass rushers even after we sign Clownely. Since they have signed number of the players eating out cap space, I believe they have budget for Pass rusher. Come on pay someone, on second thought i would have kept Frank Clark last year atleast we would have young rusher at his peak signed for 4 years.
Frustration just frustration ………… .
Here’s a dream draft that won’t happen.
Simmons still there at 8 so let’s see if Jacksonville wants some draft stock?
Traded #27, #144 and 2021 1st and 2nd for #9 and took Simmons.
9.Isaiah Simmons OLB Clemson
59.Isaiah Wilson OT Georgia
64.Hunter Bryant TE Washington
101.Robert Hunt G Louisiana
133.Bryce Hall CB UVA
214.Calvin Throckmorton C Oregon
Some defensive firepower, restock the OL, get a weapon for RW and a project corner. Not a bad day’s work.
Now let’s get back to reality…
Love it.
Another move I like is trading back from 27 with BAL to get their two 2nd round picks and their 3rd. There’s potential for R Davis, Zuniga, Ayuik, I Wilson and Akers with your first five picks in that version. I know this because I am completely addicted to the simulator.
Oh, and for the record, PFN took Justin Herbert at #27 for the Jags.
I think I have done that exact same mock! I have got addicted to it so have done about a hundred of them. I found the Bengals will always accept our first for their entire draft except their #2 pick. Is that a glitch? Doesn’t seem fair.
In the first post in the off-season, I suggested Clowney to Baltimore. It makes even more sense now.
They should let the Clowney ship sail and go after Griffin and add Bennett. 1st 3 picks DL, RB, and OL. This team was a late Carson/Penny double whammy from a possible 1 seed with zero pass rush. Just keep adding depth, draft 1-2 DE/DL and make sure to get another potential stud RB and it’s more of ‘win it in 4th’ but hopefully without having to bring RBs off the scrap heap in Dec.
Personally, I want nothing to do with Bennett anywhere near our locker room.
I understand your position. The options are limited and he wasn’t one of the anti Wilson guys on his way out. It seems like he has had time to reflect and regrets some of his actions, while still feeling fond of his time with the Seahawks. At the stage in his career, I can’t see him being a huge negative voice in the locker room. He is cheap, and still on the market.
I agree with you. I am one of the biggest anti-Bennett guys you can find, but people can change, people often reflect on past actions and come to understand things in different ways.
I’d take Michael Bennett back in a heartbeat, and would fully expect him to play his heart out for the fans of the Seattle Seahawks.
Michael Bennett? No.
PFN Mock sim:
Traded down multiple times. Assumed that Clowney would re-sign, hopefully Griffen. I would love this draft, but I doubt some of these players drop.
#42 – Isaiah Wilson
#59 -Raekwon Davis
#64 – Jabari Zuniga
#81 – Brandon Aiyuk
#116 – Anthony McFarland
#133 – Bryce Hall
#144 – Nick Harris
#214 – Rodrigo Blankenship
Thoughts?
I would love that draft.
Many of them will drop.
We are higher on them than most because we have such a ridiculous need for a pass rush.
In normal years, I wouldn’t want anyone on that list other than Isiah Wilson, Bryce Hall and Rodrigo Blankenship.
I completely agree.
This guy publishes a lot of clips in case anyone wants to check him out.
Forget Brady, the real reign of terror is over…!
I saw this earlier and didn’t realize that John Fassel had moved over to the Cowboys, Greg the leg is a good kicker and I respect the hell out of Fassel. Good for the Cowboys (yes, I’m the only one on this blog that likes the boys…but I grew up in TX as a Cowboy fan and EVERYONE in my family was a diehard fan, I’ve never forgiven Jerry for firing Tom Landry though…and never will).
You should be more mad at him for running Jimmy out of town
I feel they need to sign TWO DEs.
1 to replace Clowney (could be him)
1 to replace Ansah
Irvin is QJeff rotational replacement
Ideal would be Ngakoue and Clowney at this point. Go for it, don’t care that it is expensive. 3 years from now that $20M will seem cheap for either guy.
I just wish the Seahawks would sign Everson Griffen now and still try and sign Clowney. I don’t get the holdup. I don’t get the waiting.
I gotta believe if Clowney was willing to just take whatever the Seahawks offer is, he would. That he hasn’t leads me to believe he really wants other offers. Which makes me think he isn’t so keen on remaining a seahawk, he’s only keen if the price is right.
Baltimore swapping out Judon for Clowney though won’t solve the Ravens problems… doesn’t mean they wouldn’t do it though.
It’s not about being keen or not keen.
It’s about a player feeling he deserves a certain amount of money and the one team that has his medical info and has stated repeatedly he’s a huge priority isn’t willing to go near it.
I just don’t get it. Usually when they say something is a priority, they go after it and get it done. Now, when fit(team, scheme, personality, etc) seem to be perfect, they’re going to nickel and dime the guy until he would rather take a one year prove it deal instead?! Our one chance to get a guy with his athletic profile at his age since we aren’t going to draft in the top half if Russ is healthy and they’d rather get too cute about it then get to it and start solving the DL problem. Very confusing.
Very confusing.
They said it was a priority to keep the OL together, too, if that’s what “I’d really like to keep those guys together” was supposed to mean when Pete said it.
My own sense now is that, obviously, this hasn’t happened, and also that he knew it wasn’t true when he said it.
The offensive line looks like absolute hott garbage. I still cannot believe someone in the front office thought it would be a good idea to sign a RT that even the New York Jets did not want, if you’ve seen how bad their line is you understand my confusion. BJ Finney is a sub-par career back-up, DJ Fluker is injury prone and one of the worst pass blocking guards in the league, Chance Warmack has been hot garbage his entire career and hasn’t played in the last few seasons, Ethan Pocic is a bust. The one solid linemen SEA has in one Duane Brown started to decline himself last season over the 2nd half of the season and has clearly lost a few steps, I doubt he will be better entering his age 35 season. Good Luck to Chris Carson and Penny running behind that OL, one coming off a broken hip and the other an ACL. Russell is going to be running for his life all season long again.
Crap, Rob.
Do you think the Seahawks medical staff know something?
Is the market reacting to the Seahawks not reacting?
I was wondering the exact same thing.
No.
If the Seahawks medical staff knew something negative they’d simply move on and wouldn’t be trying to sign him to an $18.5m a year deal.
They want to sign him, simply on ‘their’ terms.
And now we have a stalemate with no sign of a breakthrough.
I bet a lot of people in the world can have their keenness level fluctuate based upon money.
It’s such a unique situation with Clowney. Seahawks agreed to not tag him, couldn’t resign him, now Teams cannot check up his health and fitness in person… and so the market doesn’t want to pay him what he wants. And Seattle won’t up there offer. And so here we are. Maybe something will change?
Oh, didn’t Brady have a special physical before the bucs signed him?
For sake of discussion let’s approach this scenario . Kirk H believes there may not be college or professional football this year. That is a distinct possibility as much as we all would not like it. If I’m JS I’m thinking I’ll take my 7 picks this year and trade up big time for two or three players and sit on them and I’ll have all my picks next year. Has anybody thought about if there is no season?
I think there’s as much point speculating about a football season right now as there is trying learn Chinese in a day. Both futile.
Agreed.
Goodell is proceeding as if there will be a season. That is the only clue we have.
Simulator is addicting haha It really shows where the cliffs are though and shows interesting possibilities for the board to fall.
First Sim- Seahawks look for high character in this one, and seeing how much they like Utah players they grab Anae. Im still not sure on why Tyler Johnson doesn’t have more buzz.
55.
Jonathan Taylor
RB Wisconsin
59.
Justin Madubuike
DT Texas A&M
60.
Bradlee Anae
DE Utah
64.
Jonathan Greenard
OLB Florida
92.
Tyler Johnson
WR Minnesota
101.
Robert Hunt
G Louisiana
133.
Logan Stenberg
G Kentucky
144.
Hakeem Adeniji
OT Kansas
214.
John Reid
CB Penn State
225.
Charlie Taumoepeau
TE Portland State
Second, Is a little more balanced, and really picked some guys I like-
59.
Raekwon Davis
DT Alabama
60.
Jabari Zuniga
DE Florida
64.
Isaiah Wilson
OT Georgia
70.
Willie Gay Jr.
OLB Mississippi State
75.
Brandon Aiyuk
WR Arizona State
92.
Cam Akers
RB Florida State
133.
Bryce Hall
CB UVA
144.
Shane Lemieux
G Oregon
214.
Kevin Dotson
G Louisiana
225.
Charlie Taumoepeau
TE Portland State
Your second one is very similar to mine. Seems close to perfect.
Expected Seattle to not be a big player in FA this year. Never happens unless they can swing a trade. What I didn’t expect was for them to seemingly be so ho hum about such a glaring weakness.
There’s a lot of talk about this years EDGE class not being good. It’s pretty much Chase Young and then everyone else. Same thing, I thought anyways, in FA this year. It was Clowney followed by everyone else.
Are they really going to let the chips fall where they may? Do they wanna spend big on the D-line when they didn’t with Frank Clark? Or do they wanna go young & cheap and build it back up in a year where guys don’t really fit the profiles they’ve gone after in the past?
field gulls posted an article that we should resign ziggy. I thought maybe it was satire or some sick joke. It was a serious article. Which only means that we’ve reached mass hysteria in pass rush solutions. At this point I’m OK with 2 older vets, or clowney plus another body, or spending big on Yannick (which is my least favorite of the bunch). I just want an end to the speculation and uncertainty. Fix it. I’m sure however its done will be underwhelming and will do little to inspire excitement.
Just avoid Field Gulls. Don’t bother with it any more.
The two writers are on the record saying they basically just shit post for clicks.
That Ansah article is pure click bait. They want you to go in there, hate-read the piece, then get into an argument about it in the comments section.
It’s gutter writing. Absolutely terrible and not befitting what was once a great website.
A lot of people don’t bother with it anymore. I’d recommend joining them.
^this
Yep. My life has improved since I gave up Twitter and that website.
Hallelujah! Can I get an amen! lol
It seems like Field gulls have just a few guys that reply negatively to most every post. They also attack posters over and over again, even though their “rules” preclude such behavior. I recommend just removing their bookmark and disregard their crap, I know I have.
Yikes. That’s a new low. I think we can fittingly say that Field Gulls has become the Ziggy Ansah of sports blogs…
LOL at this and your ‘It’ reference. Thank you.
Embarrassing, like a fantasy football program on public access. Zero credibility when it comes to anything Seahawks or professional football.
Rob/Anyone. Id love some suggestions to help me to stop clicking on fieldgulls. I do it out of habit since the glory days of John Morgan. Thanks and Go Hawks.
Well there’s here… and you could also get addicted to the PFN mock draft simulator.
Well if I knew you were going to be 8 hours ahead (Pacific) on the Clowney signing then i would refresh this page constantly like a mental case. But the Field Gulls Gang are usually the first to break it. Then i come here knowing that i’ll get excellent analysis from your good self and generally good thoughts from the excellent community your site has developed. You just need to hire some field reporters to scour the inter-tweets for that fresh newz for me to upload to my brain space.
Thanks again for the great “content” and top tier analysis.
I’ve had an open thread available within seconds of every free agent signing this off-season other than Jarran Reed and a blog post within 30 minutes of each signing.
I’d say that’s fair enough for a bloke in Britain who does this as a hobby in his spare time.
But if i stop going to fieldgulls how would I ever know what Quandre Diggs thinks of Geno Smiths cooking? 😉
Fair point.
Proceed.
John Morgan and Danny Kelly were gold.
agreed. Loved both those guys. Morgan still occasionally posts there. And I always read his stuff. Great writer, even if sometimes he misses the mark on points. Danny Kelly was by far my favorite.
I had to read that for the pure bs of it, but I really only hop on to catch a possible update in the comments. I never post tho. Not worth the time. But since Danny Kelly left, it’s been absolutely terrible. During the season, there is some occasional good breakdown articles, but mostly its clickbait filler trash. Which like this one, I have to sit and laugh about. Talk about giving your name credibility.
This is my first stop on all seahawk related news and discussion tho. Actually its the only place I post at. Thank you for that Rob.
Agree 100%. Haven’t read that site in years. This is where I come for Seahawk discussion and analysis.
Wow. Just wow. Seahawks blogs going after other Seahawks blogs. We really need some actual football news to talk about.
I don’t know what you’re ‘wowing’ about.
I am actually allowed an opinion. Me thinking Field Gulls is now shite doesn’t have to be a big deal. We’re not a bunch of teenagers.
Plenty of people think this place is shite too. C’est la vie.
Hey, it’s your blog. I personally love your blog and appreciate you for doing it. but I like Field Gulls too. C’est la vie.
FYI — ‘C’est la vie’ doesn’t fit at the end of that sentence.
But you’re welcome to like both blogs. As am I welcome to have opinions on things.
C’est la vie. Such is life. I was just expressing solidarity. I didn’t mean for it to relate to the previous sentence.
As someone who used to write for FG (Back in the DK days), I really feel like Kenneth was terrible for that site.
As an editor, Kenneth prioritized guys who could write 4-5 articles a week. I get that he needed fresh content on the page every day, but IMO that’s the single decision that caused the decline of the FG. Consider my own case. I was an unpaid writer who wrote maybe 1 article a week. Before I’d even sit down to the keyboard, I’d usually spend 3-4 hours watching film, and a few more researching any relevant topics. Each article I wrote was maybe a 6-8 hour investment of my time. Which is fine if you’re doing it as an after work hobby in 90 minute chunks. But 5 articles a week? Who the hell has 40 spare hours a week for an unpaid writing gig?
The predictable result of course is that all the people who used to write in-depth carefully researched articles were either phased out or quit. Now instead we’ve got a bunch of articles on why Pete doesn’t know shit about football because analytics, and hot takes. Basically, FG’s morphed from a website who’s primary draw was serious football analysis into one that’s more like the internet version of talk radio.
Completely agree.
I stopped visiting FG several years ago. It’s like twitter, vomit up some lame crap and see what sticks. I don’t even bother anymore. I hate to say it but the same is true with the Tribune and Greg Bell. I was a diehard on that site until the paper decided it was more important to make revenue from the site than have a meaningful discussion. I feel for Greg because I like him a lot…but I just don’t go there anymore.
I thought it was an interesting proposal.
There is a reasonable chance that much of Ansah’s lack of effectiveness last season was related to deconditioning from his shoulder surgery. Labral repair has pretty severe restrictions on post surgical activity; often with extremely limited loads on the shoulders for 3-4 months – it’s inevitable to lose some of the leg power needed to play DL in the NFL after shoulder surgery, and it probably takes longer to recover for an older player like Ziggy.
That said, would you sign ZIggy to a veteran minimum contract with no guarantees? If there’s a 20% chance he could be a 10 sack player, and you could cut him with no repercussions as late as just after the last preseason game, would you sign him?
Heck, I think it’d be a quality gamble if we signed him to a 1 year contract for $3million, only $100K guaranteed. If he’s not reliably flashing in preseason, cut him and take the loss. If he looks healthy and explosive again, he’s probably an 8-10 sack player who is familiar with the system, and motivated as he’s ever been trying to play his way into what might be his last contract.
Ansah is finished.
100% finished.
Just put those words into an article… you’re done.
that’s a quite definitive opinion, but of course still open to being wrong.
I think it’s odd that you are so binary in your thinking, especially when your labor of love is to share your thoughts on an incredibly unpredictable draft in an extremely complicated and unpredictable sport. It’s so unpredicatble that yourendeavor each year ultimately results in greater than 90% of your predictions being wrong, and even the best analysts (you included) rarely get more than 4-5 1st round selections correct, let alone hitting on more than a handful of picks in mid-late rounds
I respect the content you publish, and admire you for sticking your neck out to be unendingly criticized unendingly. But, when you know the degree of uncertainty in the sport, and variability in injury recovery, why are you so dogmatic?
My god.
Did you watch last season?
It’s got nothing to do with medicals.
He’s finished.
He’s done.
Toast.
This is the last thing I expected to have to talk about this off season.
Hey Tony:
The article you reference said only if could be signed at a low dollar, low risk contract. The article said Ziggy never gained his weight or his health back after his injury the year before, and it might be worth taking a flier on him. Who knows; maybe he could become a decent option with a full off-season to get healthy. If not, just cut him.
He’s finished Louie.
There’s no flier.
The guy is done.
If pass rush is the specific aspect they want to upgrade, then maybe Clowney isn’t the ultimate target. Yes, Clowney is awesome against the run but 3 sacks isn’t exactly the number you want from your top DE. I have to believe the FO know exactly what they are doing. If Griffen is bent on playing in Seattle, maybe they have a handshake agreement to sign him once the Clowney deal plays out in order to know what kind of money they can sign Griffen for. Then they move to get YN or Judon. Is a 3rd down package of Irvin, Griffen and Ngakoue better than Clowney, Ansah and Jefferson? Hell yes. Trade for YN to be the top rush end, sign Griffen or Judon and draft Okwara, Uche, Zuniga, YGM, etc as the long term replacement for Irvin or Griffen. And don’t forget about Collier and Green. Both will be better than last year which means some production.
Collier has nowhere to go but up. Even if he has a terrible year this year – it’ll still be better than last year.
Hi Rob, first time poster, what a fantastic site!! This may be a blessing in disguise, let Clowney sign for the Ravens, the hawks then HAVE to do something in FA rather than sitting on their hands
If Clowney signs, cap room is pretty taxed, and further options are limited. Need a great vet value deal AND some production out of the draft to be better than last years awful DL. (Obvious improvement from LJ/Green too).
If Clowney moves on, they have to trade away draft capital and pay a big contract for YN, or make some other draft capital heavy move to be as good as last years bad line.
I’m failing to see a path here that yields DL becoming a strength. A path that leads to average DL seems to hang on Clowney. And a path to as bad or worse than year honestly feels like it might happen.
If you want to make the PFN Simulator more interesting, you can take control of multiple teams and make more realistic selections. For example, I took over the Dolphins and Chargers and took Taylor and Love in the 1st round.
I’ve been doing NFC West drafts on there and that can be really fun when you trade bewteen the NFC West teams! Like if Simmons slips to the Cards, I always have them trade with the Seahawks!!!
What is really interesting is to look at what the Niners end up with whether I pick for them or the sim does it…they almost always seem to come away with a haul! Must be how their picks are set up…
This one guy keeps posting comments (I remove them) saying I only write negative things about the Seahawks for clicks.
What he doesn’t seem to realise though is this is an independent website and I don’t receive any benefit from ‘clicks’. I don’t get any money, any revenue. If 50 people read my articles or 500,000 it makes no difference whatsoever.
I write this blog as a hobby in my spare time. We’re the only blog like this. No other NFL team has a site like this. I wish people would stop posting shite.
If your not getting paid anything you should be. There is all sorts of ways to make money off your site buy not doing very much at all. Also you do have an ad on your site that takes you to NFL shop.com
I’m not even sure the company on that ad exists any more. They stopped updating the banners two years ago.
Sorry to hear that. The majority of us are greatful to have this site. I was happy to come upon it. Great blog. Plenty of info and good discussion. Unfortunately there will always be some who will find something to complete about. I appreciate we can all share our viewpoints on here. I definitely haven’t noticed the negativity coming from you. Maybe frustration towards the pass rush efforts; but i think all of us as Seahawks fans are of that same frame of mind. Atleast currently.
Hey Rob,
I don’t know if this is a Seattle or northwest thing or not. But I notice it A LOT in the Washington Huskies football fandom.
On most mainstream websites for Husky fans, anyone who dares speak any criticism about the team or the coaching staff, and especially the heads of the athletic department, is met with harsh criticism and shamed. It’s also prevalent on twitter. I don’t see that “you can’t critique the team at all or else you’re a fake fan” culture AS MUCH in the Seahawks fandom community, which tends to be more diverse. However some of that mindset will inevitably leak over.
One way (Covid) or the other (no passrush) this season is a write off it appears. Are Hawks saving cap to roll over into next season and make a big splash.
No, they are not.
That makes about as much sense as reporting that the Seahawks just signed Clowney with no verified sources.
I was worried about Baltimore grabbing Clowney the day he became a free-agent. Seemed like perfect fit. Contender with cap space and a good defense. The longer this drags out the more i think he ends up in Indianapolis or Baltimore. If it’s a 1or 2 year deal, I definitely don’t think its in Seattle.
The Seahawks entered last off-season needing to improve the pass rush and they CHOSE to actually reduce it. Trading Frank remains a huge head scratcher for me. John said the draft went exactly according to their board in the 1st round & seemed super bummed about it. Isn’t that what you were essentially predicting would happen? Why the surprise? The Clowney trade was an 11th hour deal. Were they actually prepared to go into the season with what they had??? They must have been. That is a bit frightening.
I want no part of Matt Judon. Not worth the money IMO.
The only thing that makes sense to me on why Ngakoue would be worth it to them and not Clark is that they had their hands tied before. Clark was traded when we had 4 picks. We didnt have much cap after signing Wagner and Wilson.
Then, Clowney’s situation is unique, they’re willing to pay him, as we know they offered 18.5M APY, but hes playing games. I wouldn’t say Clark and Clowney’s situations would show a pattern.
Ngakoue isnt as good as Frank was, so it’s easy to wonder why they would want Yannick over Clark. But what it probably comes down to is they were able to get a haul of picks, draft a few studs, and add Clowney on a 1 year rental (if we lose him). Now we have cap and we can trade for a pass rusher, if we miss out on Clowney that will likely be Ngakoue and they’ll probably add Griffen.
I just have to give PCJS the benefit of the doubt, I think they have a plan, they wouldnt just not fix their biggest need.
Well they’re two weeks into FA.
So time for the plan to reveal itself.
I think they have something already worked out with Griffen, and I think Jacksonville knows they would trade for Ngakoue. I think JS is just waiting out Clowney, and so is Jacksonville. Griffen might really want to come play for Pete, maybe they said they want to just wait on negotiations so they know exactly how much they can give him. It wouldn’t surprise me.
I’ve done an All Offense Draft, All Defense Draft, All Freak Draft, etc.
Now, I just reset when the top 26 don’t fall my way.
Step away from the simulator . . .
simulators are incredibly fun though.
😂
Sounds like the Matrix or something…
Instead of getting frustrated with what we don’t have or know lets have fun with what we do.
How did we do with Clowney?
The guy is a stud and makes splash plays. But a constant pass-rusher he is not. So I’m curious if that’s the play.
Is there a player that could give us more than Clowney? I believe yes there is. We would have to move up in the draft to get him but we have the resources to do so. If we are inclined to spend second and third round picks for half season rentals why not go after a bigger move in the draft?
But ignoring the draft angle for a moment and sure up the pass rush, we look at the options that are staring at us. We know the Hawks are interested in Yannick Ngakoue or Matt Judon.
Could it be the Hawks are trying to either pull all three or at least the two we know would provide the rush? If one assumes we don’t have the cap there are moves that could still be made to get all three. Perhaps not long term.
Either way this has to say its a risk JS is willing to take to not bring back Clowney.
The more I look at the roster the more I’d bet we don’t touch a o-lineman or WR until round three. An aggressive move up I’m willing to consider for the first time in a while with PC and JS in the first round.
the one thing that we can add to clowneys value is that he’s 26 and doesn’t cost us draft picks. Moving up in draft costs us a ton to get a top DL. Which there’s basically only a couple worth trading up for. Yannick and judon do too. And both will cost the same in price as well. Clowney takes on double teams and is a top run defender. I love his play aside from finishing with sacks. But add a speed rusher opposite of him and someone will clean up sack stats. His win% and pressure rates were really good. I think the hawks need to get this done. Before we’re stuck flipping picks for similar results at the same price.
JUST PAY HIM
that is all
Agreed. 4-5 years at 20M if that’s what it takes
YES! just do it! A year ago we were talking about possible QB prospects if Russ didn’t sign. He did and put up an MVP worthy season. That was on one side of the ball, here is the other. Clowney is as important to the defense as Russ is to offense. DON’T BE CUTE WITH THIS! Overpaying is one of the best options. The Seahawks need him more than he needs the Seahawks. If he is asking for X, give him X! DON’T LOSE THIS NEGOTIATION ON THE MARGINS!
Also Rob, apologies if I missed your assesment in a previous post, but what are your thoughts on James Lynch? His combine testing was off the charts in terms of agility. I watched some of his games and even though he is very quick, he’s quick to the wrong side of the field a lot of the time. RB goes right, and he is a monster at getting around to the left and getting to the QB who just handed the ball off.
I’m being uncharitable in my review, but you can see that quickness on film. It is there. It’s a potent weapon if it can be repurposed to a more focused role than what Baylor does which seems to be to have no playbook at all.
Not Rob, but I think his short arms could hurt him at the next level as well.
If Lynch let his finger nails grow 1/16″ on each hand, he would have the required 33″ arms. Lynch has
some talent and obviously needs coaching up. He is “country strong”, has a high motor & is a team leader. I think it would be overthinking to NOT spend a round 3/4 pick on a very productive yet under coached player. He is perhaps better suited, right now, in a 3 – 4 defense, but has experience producing at multiple positions on the DL. Personally I see him as a disruptive 5-tech with a high floor and good potential to be good-to-great player with proper coaching up. He’s likely not a Rd-1/2 pick, however, somewhere in the Rd-3/4 area, he’s well worth Seahawk consideration as a “developmental” DT (which is a status that is quite fitting for a Rd-3/4 draft pick).
Also, he has the highest SPARQ rating of the DL guys & that has to be something that appeals to JS/PC, arm length is indeed important, but Lynch didn’t seem to have much trouble putting up GREAT production against major college OL’s. I know many here don’t like stats and would maybe prefer players that have underperformed with better traits, but if a guy can’t put up + #’s in 4 years of college how do we expect them to be all-pro draft picks? There is a balance between those two thoughts that good teams will not ignore in the draft. IMO- Lynch is somewhat of a boom or bust guy but if he booms as I expect he might,
you just drafted a guy worth XX-millions for years to come. —> As for Clowney – Damn, all of this waiting for the final shoe to drop is getting really painful.
I just don’t see a scheme fit plus he has the short arms. Bet he ends up in Carolina.
Rob, I love the mocks. One request ( and I haven’t looked at the other comments to see if this has been covered): would you be able to say the players names that your looking at instead of saying “this guy” or “he won’t be there.” Often I am listening to you while driving or doing chores. I really hope I don’t sound ungrateful. I appreciate the articles, podcasts and videos more than you can know. Thank you
Sure, no problem
“Clowney is as important to the defense as Russ is to offense”
This statement is so laughable I literally don’t have words
Did someone actually say that!?!?
It was probably me who said that, and I said it because I believe it. Even if I never said that, I would stand by that statement.
Yes, “Clowney is as important to the defense as Russ is to offense”
I stand by that statement 100%
I hope Rob responds to this. Again I have no words
I see words so you definitely have those. Just no period.
.
No. Clowney is not Aaron Donald or Khalil Mack type player. Remember he didn’t even make the pro bowl this year.. AND our defense was trash. Aside from the SF game what other games did Clowney win us single handedly?
Russell on the other hand had a all-pro MVP type like season and saved us from a number of games this year.
I think Clowney is important, but Bobby is way more important. He’s the QB of the defense.
I stand by that 100%
If Clowney regularly played like he did in that first game with SF, that claim might be defensible. But, sadly, he did not, for whatever reasons.
So, right now we have pretty clear situation with salary cap. The only unknown is Irvin contract , but its one year contract and everyone assume its around 4mil.
At the moment seahawks have 11mil cap space. Whith Irvin its about 7mil. When we account rookies+ PS + IR its about 0-2 mil true cap space.
With cutting and restructuring contracts they could add 40-50mil.
You sound like you’ve been listening to Evan and John Gilbert to much.
I dont read Evan at all…unfollowed him long time ago on twitter…
Yes I read John when its about CBA, SC etc , but this doesnt have anything with him…
Am i wrong with this calculation?
And i didnt say its realistic to make that much of room just said what are possibilities.
There are players that wont be cut 99,9% (like Diggs) and I counted them.
Something real is between 15-30mil without restructuring Russ contract. And 30-40 mil with restructuring.
Anf guy who I love to read and listen, and really have high opinion about him is Chris Cluff(@CHAWK_Talk on twitter). And here is his article about cap space 2 days ago.
https://chawktalk.com/2020-free-agency-chatter/
I forgot on Dorsett and Luke Wilson. But dont expecct more than additional 2mil for both.
“ You also wonder if Clowney will develop any resentment considering they’re the one team with the medical info and they’ve not stepped up to get this sorted”
Equally, try this … because we don’t have access to the discussions between JS and Clowney’s people:
“You also wonder if [the Seahawks] will develop any resentment considering [Clowney has said he’s happy in Seattle because of the excellent culture and the coaches and the consistently Pro Bowl level QB and because he wishes to compete for a ring but he’s flirted with multiple teams and asked for a salary of over 20 mill per annum] and not stepped up to get this sorted
Agreed, the hawks have no choice but to hold out hope for Clowney, but to me (and for all the people who are saying ‘pay the man’ or the Hawks are being cheap, I think this shows Clowney doesn’t want to be a Hawk. Whether it’s Pete’s style or team talent level, he doesn’t want to be here and if true makes me incredibly sad. It means my team is ‘just another team’ to a guy who spent a year in that locker room and who was offered a market rate long term contract.
Agree. I posted something in the same vein a few days ago.
It takes two to do a deal, and the onus of “stepping up” doesn’t fall only on the Hawks in this case, especially considering they are (reportedly) bidding against themselves at this point.
A thought popped into my head yesterday. It might not be what us fans would like to hear, but give me a chance. We like to imagine Clowney and/or the Hawks as possibly offended/frustrated at this point that the other party hasn’t conceded. But what if things are actually quite peaceful right now between them?
Clowney rightfully wants to see if there’s a $20m/apy offer out there for him after finally hitting the open market for the first time in his career with no leverage of the tag holding him back, and knows he needs to wait until he can take physicals with other teams to possibly get that big offer.
At the same time, by respecting his wish of hitting the open market, the Hawks have earned his word that he will give them a chance to match whatever offer he does end up getting. So they figure: instead of overpaying now right out of the gate, why not wait it out and see what his market really is? There is no risk of losing him since we can always match, and the potential upside is that we get him back at a much lower rate if the market he wants isn’t there for him (which it hasn’t been up to this point).
Perhaps the Seahawks are fine doing it this way as long as a deadline is set sometime before the draft.
God grant me the serenity…
Hope they’re on good terms. We can get as worked up as we want about the roster and the only real effect it will have is on our health. That’s the comedy of sports fandom. Flip side of the coin is that I’m certain that winning the Super Bowl added years to my life. The pressure release from 30 years of pent up, passionate fanaticism in one volcanic blast was incredible.
(Was that lysdexic you up above or is there actually another commenter named “CD”…?)
Different entity believe it or not. Not only that but every so often another DC pops up, there’s a second one on here recently. dcd2 was a former DC who had the courtesy to switch. (Thanks!) Not something classy like a Volute12 or a Sea Mood, just another straight up DC…
This is my take as well. Makes no sense to bid against yourself if you have a fair market deal out there like we can assume as the Seahawks said its a priority to bring him back.
They don’t seem to be panicking, because they don’t need to, they either get him back at market value, or they have the option to match a slightly higher contract (which we are all clamoring for them to give him to just “get it done” regardless).
Don’t like the doom and gloom surrounding the situation. Im quite happy with all the moves they’ve made except for maybe the OL.
I don’t consider it doom and gloom, though. It’s really not. Rob and other fans are perfectly right to question why they are taking so long to address their #1 priority, both openly admitted by PC and blatantly obvious on the field.
And it’s no question IMO that if they don’t do something to upgrade the pass rush, it’s not gonna be pretty.
It’s fine to be happy with the moves.
Pointing out the baffling lack of action to repair their self confessed huge need is not being doom and gloom.
Wasn’t necessarily pointing out this site, particularity not you Rob, but even some of the comments here sure seem gloom and doom to me. For example, Tee’s comment right below this. When the alternative is bidding against yourself, somehow that relates to wasting the prime of Russell’s career…
But if they don’t sort the pass rush out they probably will waste his prime years.
And I get the point about not bidding against yourself but if you sit waiting him out for weeks, then he goes somewhere else, what then? Your self confessed ‘huge priority’ is gone and you have barely any means to fix the pass rush other than starting book end 33 year olds.
I’m pretty sure Philly didn’t want to pay Darius Slay what they did after trading for him. Sometimes you’ve just got to seal a deal.
You’ve acknowledged Clowney and Seattles handshake deal to allow Seattle to match whatever offer he accepts. Is it worth bidding against yourself when that option is there?
I’ve not done anything of the sort.
And I’ve already answered this question.
The Seahawks can move on whenever they want if that’s the case.
But they haven’t.
Rob, what a great site you have here. I first found you back around 2012 and now my favorite football writer is a British soccer guy. What are the odds?
The most frustrating aspect of this, to me, is the waste of a prime opportunity. Russell is as good as he will ever be right now. Pete doesn’t have many more shots at this, particularly with a HOF QB. To toss that over a couple of million dollars seems incredibly boneheaded and stubborn. One might think JS/PC should be in a mode similar to the one the Ravens are in and gathering high-quality players for a championship run. Instead, it’s an odd assortment of this and that and then crickets. It’s baffling on every level.
I gave a go at the simulator. Derek Brown slid to #27 and, although completely unrealistic, I tried to imagine what the Seahawks would do there – take him, or trade down. I went with the trade down.
Thanks for some great reads.
Did a 27 & 59 swap for 42 & YN.
42. K.J. HAMLER, WR, Penn State
64. JORDAN ELLIOT, DT, Missouri
101. ANTONIO GIPSON, RB, Memphis
133. ROBERT HUNT, G, Louisiana
144. DAVION TAYLOR, OLB/S, Colorado
214. YASIR DURANT, OT, Missouri
FWIW, Pauline had Raekwon Davis going to NE in the 1st round of his latest mock draft which I’d guess is more realistic than him lasting until the end of round 2 as he so frequently does here.
Yeah, I hate all of these 7 rounders where we get all of Rob’s favourites throughout the first 5-6 rounds. Raekwon and Wilson at the end of Round 2, Aiyuk in round 3, Willie Gay in round 4, Stenberg in round 5, etc. These things just simply aren’t going to happen and we are setting ourselves up for disappointment when our actual draft looks much different.
To add to that, where they took Hunt at the end of round 2 to get their guy, seems more in line with the type of picks we’ll actually see. His 7 rounders were quite good.
I’m not worried about BAL going after Clowney because the way they the FO acts is too weird to make sense unless there is something fundamental we bare not aware of.
The need to upgrade the poor pass rush is no secret. They went and secured Reed and Irvin quickly and then – NOTHING.
JS has always been “in it” regarding every player available. They always pick up the phone to check and yet we have not heard a single rumor regarding the Seahawks showing any interest in any of the players already taken, players that are still available or players under the tag you can trade for.
There are some possible explanations:
1. They lost touch with reality and think they are good to go with what they already have which is less than what they had last year.
2. They are shell shocked by the corona virus and forgot to take care of it.
3. They see a viable plan to get the day 1 talent they need in the upcoming draft.
If any of the above sound reasonable to you – stop reading this comment.
IMO, it makes absolutely ZERO sense. There is no way this FO sits on it’s hands and does nothing to address this situation. NONE.
This FO always used the sledge hammer approach when a position of need had to be addressed and they had the means to do it. There is only one explanation that I can come up with for this situation – The Seahawks already took care of business.
I believe they have more than “an offer on the table” with Clowney. I believe they have struck a deal on the first day of the process. They wanted him back and he seemed pretty happy with them as well.
I think that they have put an offer that was less than what Clowney expected and made it clear that they believe it was a fair market value. They also said openly that he is their no. 1 guy for the job but if they can’t get it done they will need to move to no. 2 immediately because its a position they must man first.
Clowney wanted to maximize his earning potential and when he did not see those market breaking offers come in that first day, the sides reached a “right of first refusal” deal. The Seahawks are committed to keeping their offer on the table for a period of time, possibly till the draft. Clowney is committed to allowing the Seahawks to match any offer he gets. Both sides agreed to keep this confidential so it does not diminish the offers from other teams.
The most telling sign fort the above was Clowney’s agent’s remark after the first day saying it would take time to get this done. Why would he say that when he represents one of the top DEs in the market unless he knows that they are secure in waiting for a better offer with something in hand already?
I can’t not see another explanation….
You’re overthinking it.
It’s as simple as this. Clowney wanted a certain amount (reportedly 20m plus) and Seattle would only offer 18.5m. Reportedly Miami offered 17m a year too.
He hasn’t got the big offer so is now seeking a shorter term contract. But clearly, again, nobody has offered even the franchise tag amount for a season.
So we’re in stalemate until he makes a decision. And he might decide to wait until he can go and visit with teams and do a medical check.
All the while Seattle’s pass rush remains unaddressed.
Rob,
We can all agree that they way JS goes after fixing a problem has never been too subtle in his decade with the team and the pass rush need is the no. 1 priority in the off-season.
Do you see him just sitting and waiting for Clowney to decided to possibly go to BAL while doing absolutely nothing (according to the NFL rumor mill) ???
I don’t.
You’re welcome to feel that way Eran.
Here are the facts though — the Seahawks are willing to risk him going somewhere else. And your assertion suggests Clowney will just go, ‘fair enough, I’ll sign for you anyway after all’ rather than say, ‘no sorry you had your chance I’m off to a superior team now on a prove it deal’.
Sorry Rob, maybe its my English but you got me all wrong on this one.
You explained above Clowney’s side of this. He wants more and is willing to wait etc. – Its all clear.
The part we all wonder about is why the Seahawks seem happy to just sit and wait for him if indeed he can come at any time and say “you had your chance I’m off to a superior team now”. That is the part we all try to come to term with. It is even more confusing when they did not seem to be in the running for any other of the other top options.
It really makes no sense, unless they have something in hand bigger than “lets just wait Clowney out”.
That’s exactly what they’re doing.
Just waiting Clowney out.
If people want to imagine it’s part of a genius broader plan, be my guest.
Rob
Thanks to you I’m now addicted to the simulator!!
Based on no binding constraints (yes probably not realistic) and 3 trade downs/ups and used a ‘21 R4 (win now!), this is the sim draft Im most keen on as it is defensive heavy and has BAMFs throughout:
39. Grant Delpit S LSU
59. Raekwon Davis DT Alabama
64. Jabari Zuniga DE Florida
77. Isaiah Wilson OT Georgia
83. Cam Akers RB Florida State
95. Willie Gay Jr. OLB Mississippi State
My only regret is that Biadasz and Cushenburry lasted well into the 3rd but not to #95. Harris went in the 6th.
Everyone talks about the Frank Clark trade last year. Let’s take a look at the situation. If you remember. When the 2019 off season started. The Seahawks only had 4 draft picks. Not to mention the fact that Frank Clark was about to become a free agent. In the year 2020 Bobby Wagner, Jarran Reed and Russell Wilson were all set to hit the open market. So what did John Schneider do? Because of the trade of Frank Clark, JS was able to parlay that move and turn that into 11 draft pics. Not only that but JS has been able to resign Russell Wilson. Bobby Wagner, and Jarran Reed. Not bad.
Also it is highly unlikely with just 4 draft pics that JS would have been able to snag D.K. Metcalf. Just for the record JS has been able to acquire Quandre Diggs and Quinton Dunbar for low round draft picks. Not only does John Schneider think outside the box. Schneider has been simply fantastic since the start of free agency 2019. As I mentioned before. Last year at the start of the off season everyone was wondering how Seattle was going to sign Clark, Wilson, Wagner and Reed. Plus the Hawks ONLY had 4 draft pics going into the 2019 NFL draft. What Schneider has done is nothing short of miraculous.
Now let’s take a look at the Clowney situation. Seattle’s front office knows exactly where Clowney is in regards to his medical situation. Does any know how bad his knee is? Clowney has had a history of injuries. I am a big Clowney fan. I am Seahawk fan. I am know that games are won/list in the trenches. Let’s see what happens in regards to Clowney. If the Hawks lose Clowney JS does have a back up scenario. Schneider always a contingency plan.
Parking the history on Clark, I also believe that JS doesn’t have a backup plan. However, my point is, how many backup plans are better than your primary plan? In my experience, few or none, or it would be your main plan. Trying to execute a backup plan late in the game gives you much fewer options that working your plan early. The reason for growing concern is that few have seen any proposed backup plans that look workable or talented enough to fill the huge need we have. Flirting with blind faith here and just as a reminder the Ziggy experiment was a full on bust last year. We need to have better options that older vets that are not in or near their prime. I’m a little concerned Bruce may end up being as ineffective as Ziggy, but fortunately I thing the bar is pretty low there for Bruce not to at least out perform Ziggy. However, we need more than just a better Ziggy. We need at least two powerful and talented rushers that are game changers. Clowney never had a chance to perform with an equal on the other side so he got all the doubles and attention, keeping him bottled up far more than expected. With someone on the other side that needed to accounted for, it would be a far different and better situation. But then again, that’s assuming Clowney is there. I don’t think Irvin, Collier and Green and going to concern anyone.
Could it possibly mean they really like someone(s) in the draft?
Great posted, 2nd’d!!
RWIII
I think it’s safe to say the hawks will trade down out of the 27th pick. We may even see them trade down a significant amount to get a lot of good picks. I’ve done the draft simulator so many times now. I’m realizing it’s just not worth chasing a mediocre defensive line prospect. Unfortunately we aren’t gonna fix our issues by selecting the equivalent of lj collier again. Raekwon Davis or the Texas A&M kid would be great to select with our second pick but I’m hoping Johnathan Taylor or another solid offensive line prospect will be available with our first pick. This won’t be the year we fix our pass rush issues. The players just aren’t there and the ones that are cost a lot.
Thing is though, if we aren’t going to add another star player to last years group we need to maximise the number of contributors to hope someone is able to break out significantly; or hope multiple players are able step up enough to get it done as a unit.
It’s difficult for me to say draft a defensive end. when the players available when we are making our selection aren’t very good. I have a feeling we will sign a couple players later in free agency instead of drafting someone with our first pick. Drafting lj collier felt like a desperation pick. I don’t want to do that again.
I have a theory that Seattle drafts multiple LSU players this year. There are a lot of them and they’re very good so there’s that, but I also reckon Pete has been on the phone with his old pal Coach O trying to find out who the underrated stars and leaders of that group are. Rashard Lawrence and Damien Lewis seem to me like two guys they’ll end up with. I’m also hoping they make an exception on CEH’s size, I can envision Pete mentioning with a wry smile the “6’4 270” comment in the post draft presser.
Any way here’s another mock:
40. K.J. Hamler, WR Penn State
48. Jabari Zuniga, DE Florida
64. Willie Gay Jr., OLB Mississippi State
90. Rashard Lawrence, DT LSU
96. Damien Lewis, G LSU
133. Amik Robertson, CB Louisiana Tech
144. Zack Moss, RB Utah
171. Alex Taylor, OT SC State
214. Kevin Dotson,G Louisiana
I like this draft.
+1
Studied Edge players yesterday. I’ve become most intrigued with Jonathan Gennard in the second round with an edge hedge in Jonathan Garvin in the fourth. Call me crazy, but those two seem the most likely to help now and grow into starters.
Greenard is a 4.8/4.9 runner though and labours off the edge. Good agility and outstanding character but not convinced he has what it takes to threaten as an EDGE.
I don’t argue it is a risk. Yet, Okwara and YGM struggle to hold the edge. Zuniga does not have the length. Maybe grow Trevis Gipson and Garvin. Sigh…
In my mind, it is the best “bet” with a bad hand.
Thank you for the reply.
No trades, with Greenard as the Goal:
27.Austin Jackson
59.Jabari Zuniga
64.Jonathan Greenard
101.Robert Hunt
133.Antonio Gibson
144.Saahdiq Charles
214.James Smith-Williams
OT a fan of Greenard. I think the draft would be problematic if it was built around him being the goal.
I agree they might have interest
Posted this a while ago:
https://www.si.com/college/florida/football/florida-gators-jonathan-greenard-nfl-draft-combine
I believe they’ll have interest based on his agility drills, long arms and get off. IMO. He’s not a LEO but there are a number of very successful pass rushers like who rely on power and agility just as much as speeed.
3 down player in base.
Looks like we’re not the only ones who are eager…
I think the Hawks need a massive infusion of speed and size. When the Hawks and USC were dominating under Pete his teams were bigger, faster stronger. When watching the Hawks in recent years it is clear that is no longer the case.
I tried the PFN simulator and it was fun. Tried to focus on an infusion of speed, size and strength to try and get the Hawks headed back in the direction of being physically dominant again. Would have loved to add Isiah Wilson I just don’t see him being there at the end of the 2nd round.
38. Julian Okwara
DE Notre Dame
59. Raekwon Davis
DT Alabama
64. Willie Gay Jr.
OLB Mississippi State
69. Chase Claypool
WR Notre Dame
101. Hunter Bryant
TE Washington
133. Bryce Hall
CB UVA
144. Damien Lewis
G LSU
152. Zack Moss
RB Utah
Agree with you on speed. Sorely lacking to my eyes outside of Diggs.
Ravens fab here….. Expecting/Hoping the Ravens rescind the tag on Judon is pie in the sky.
The Ravens play the comp pick game as good as anyone. They are short this year on those picks and a Clowney signing plus tag pull for Judon really doesn’t net anything.
The Ravens would look to redo Ronnie Stanley to create space and attempt to trade Judon for considerable draft capital. My guess would be a 2nd or 3rd plus.
Look everyone… a Ravens fan who hasn’t read the article properly.
I don’t want the Seahawks to sign Judon. I don’t want them to rescind the tag and sign Clowney. I want the Seahawks to keep Clowney — the better player. You can have Judon.
Not arguing what your team tends to do, since you know that better than I do, but I will ask: isn’t it the time to go all out for the Super Bowl while you still have Lamar on his rookie deal? Not exactly a great time to be worried about whether or not you will net a comp pick, especially if we’re talking a mere late R5 or R6 pick for losing Michael Pierce or Seth Roberts…).
If a signing will help you win the Super Bowl now, then go for it. (but please don’t, cause we need Clowney now, thx…)
If the Ravens are worried about comp picks this year they are fools (I’m guessing they aren’t). They should be all in to win the SB this year, because I don’t think they’ll win after they pay Lamar.
Rob,
Forgive me if I’ve missed your thoughts on him, but what about Terrell Lewis as an EDGE candidate? I know there’s injury history, but you know Seattle loves going after guys with high ceilings. From what I’ve read, he could be a special player if healthy. Have a great weekend. Go Hawks
It came to me last night in a dream. Mystery solved. Nothing more to worry about here fellows.
Neither Clowney nor the front office is stressing about the 2020 season because they have reached an agreement in principle. Clowney has agreed to return to Seattle for a price to be determined by what he can secure for himself on the open market…. plus X. For their part, Seattle has agreed to pay clowney no less than 18.5 million dollars APY… And to allow him to test the free market waters to set a higher price for himself if he can find it. Neither party can announce or share the details of this agreement because it would hinder his ability to find bidding partners with other teams if they knew they were only there to elevate his price. Everson Griffin has also agreed to play for the Seahawks this season for a price to be determined after the Clowney signing is announced.
It’s the only plausible conclusion to be drawn if you concede that both parties are A. Honest and B. Competent.
There is 100% no way agreements have been reached and everyone is just on the hush.
Doesn’t win off the edge enough. Everything is dipping inside. Injuries a major red flag. Incomplete testing results. Not for me.
Sorry if this has been discussed. I was also tracking Shelby Harris as a possible value addition edge rusher. He just re-signed with Denver for a mere $2.5M one year contract. What do you think of him?
I wasn’t that keen. Small, undersized defensive tackle. Limited upside.
Thanks. True, he’s smallish at just over 300 lbs. for an interior lineman. But has a good motor.
While Clowney and Seahawks are at a stalemate have you heard anything about other options? What are the Hawks going to do to replace QJeff and Woods?
Haven’t heard anything.
Just seems like free agency has ground to a hault. And the Seahawks have done nothing to properly address their biggest weakness.
Matt Miller:
I dont know if this is true or not but one thing comig back again and again…Delpit wont go round one…
What if he is there at 45-55 pick…trade up and take him or?
Chinn is getting that Nasir Adderley hype.
Matt Miller’s league source said Jacob Eason top-15 a few weeks ago.
This is about as reliable as Ink Zone man.
Daniel Jeremiah and Jim Nagy both said they had a couple GMs who told them Chinn could sneak into the end of the 1st. Take that FWIW though.
If you aggregate all the mock drafts on the net, it’s pretty clear that the Hawks are taking Yetur Gross-Matos.
No it isn’t.
That was tongue in cheek. 🙂
Ah. Fair enough then.
Now would be a great time for another of those fab mock draft videos!!!
Show me the money, I mean video!! 😉
Just about to post one now…
I saw it, then it was gone…
Just saw a video of Mekhi Becton going up against a Ford Raptor.
Beastly.
It’s a great video
Rob. Just curious. What range do you think Zach Moss will go? I was surprised that Tony Pauline has Moss ranked 224 on his big board.
I think R4
Thanks Rob.
Not sure Baltimore would be willing to sign Clowney without a medical considering that was at least the stated reason for not completing the contract to Brockers.
Rob: I re-watched the Bengals game from last season, and didn’t see much from Clowney. I can think of a few games last season where that was the case. He is very inconsistent. I don’t think the Hawks should overpay for an inconsistent DE. When he’s on, he can be very good. But for many games he just isn’t that good. Obviously the market for him has been affected by that inconsistency.
And around the league there are concerns about being injury prone. If the Ravens want to overpay him, then on to plan B. You have previously commented that it would be ridiculous to count on Green and Collier improving. Again we disagree.
1. You watched his first game with a new team. Well done.
2. If you’re counting on Collier and Green you’re either trolling or kidding yourself.
We watch the same Cincy tape? Clowney was very effective in that game, playing limited snaps due to his lack of practice from a holdout. He had a sack, battled another ball down that he nearly picked, helped Jefferson for a cleanup sack by his initial pressure, had another quarterback hit, and a 1.5 tackles for loss, all while learning a new scheme on the fly. As well, let’s not forget throughout the season he was one of the most double-teamed edge defenders in the league. Might account for some of that inconsistency you mentioned.
Clowney was indeed very good in the Cincy game.
I think Louie’s trolling.
Hey Rob:
I’m not trolling. I’m just not buying into the idea that the rapture is coming if we don’t overpay for Clowney. If that were the case, Schneider would have already signed him. And if you’ve already given up on Green and Collier then maybe it’s not me doing the kidding. I remember many comments on this blog about Frank Clark after one year.
1. Nobody is saying to overpay Clowney.
2. Not given up on anyone, simply saying they aren’t the solution.
3. Nobody on this blog said anything of the sort about Clark. And if you make anything else up to try and win a debate, you might find it harder to comment in future.
What happened to the Ngakoue draft projection post?
Needs a quick edit. Will be back in about an hour.
Cutting off the beginning? 😀
I’ll be very honest, if they trade the first round pick, I have a really hard time filling out the roster and procuring enough picks without significant future pick allocation.
Side note: I’m wondering if CB is a likely target. They now have 2 guys, who might get paid big dollars, on the team at the same time in the last year of their deal. I’ve been trying to double dip into CBs that might fit Seattle in some of my mocks.
Clowney is the type of player that makes everyone else a little better because offenses have to seriously concentrate on where he is on every play. He may be expensive but there aren’t many if any other players who can do what he can. He is that good. A difference maker. What an athlete. You need every one of those types you can get. He is worth what he is asking if he stays healthy. If he doesn’t then with his asking we really can’t afford a plan “B”. Possibly a great draft player on the cheap.
When you have a chance to sign a player like Clowney you just need to look at every option available to make that happen. But $$$ in the NFL is a huge issue. We already pay plenty to our QB and QB on defense. There are LOTS of good, big, quality pro’s out there that we probably can get on the cheap. But they aren’t difference makers. Just good football players who do get blocked by good offensive linemen. Even great offensive linemen can’t block Clowney. Takes 2 of them which as stated makes the rest of our D line better.
My preference??? Can’t let him go.
BB
100% agree –recently re-watched the Hawks at SF game on NFl.com — JDC dominated and essentially tipped the win in our favor.
Seahawks can’t let him go, but they need two more like him to have an elite defense.
As far as his lack of pass rushing, I think he was playing for position more than rushing. He was filling the gaps and keeping plays from going to his side. Not sure if there is a stat for that.
Question: What impact will the restriction put on player evaluations (canceled pro days and visits) have on the draft for the Seahawks? While everyone will be on a equal playing field. We all know it’s going to effect teams differently. IMO it hurts the Seahawks because I think they rely very heavily on intel they pick up at pro days to set their board and know when to target players. I hope I’m wrong but I’d be one of the GM’s who want to postpone a couple of weeks.
I think they might focus on the players they have the most information on.
I look at it this way, more guys will fall through the cracks and be priority FAs… that make 55 man rosters / 10-12 person “scout” roster and potentially could be a “star”/”superstar” in the NFL. Think of a Doug Baldwin player in this example.
It makes so much sense that I would be surprised if the Ravens didn’t pursue Clowney. Judon does nothing for me.