Martavis Bryant is better than a lot of people realise
On Wednesday I put Martavis Bryant in the first round of my latest mock draft.
I genuinely believe he could go that early. Certainly within the top 40 picks.
And he’s very much an option for the Seahawks at #32.
Earlier in the week I sat down and watched three Clemson games again — Syracuse, Maryland and Georgia Tech.
I want to highlight some plays to back up why he could be an early pick in May:
1:42 — Bryant eats up the cushion and gets the defensive back to turn his hips. He sells the route perfectly, giving the impression he’s running downfield. He’s looking straight on, his body is positioned to run beyond the corner. Instead he cuts inside, creating ample separation before making a difficult low grab. A better throw there (and it’s a shocker by Tajh Boyd) and you’re looking at major YAC.
1:48 — It’s a blown coverage, and that’s why he scores the touchdown. But I’m going to highlight scoring plays here too.
2:09 — This is what we want to see. He exploits another bad job in coverage, with the corner passing him off too easily. The safety’s coming over the top and Bryant can hear the footsteps. Even so he maintains concentration, completes the catch and absorbs a big hit. That’s one of the toughest things to do. Ask Vernon Davis.
0:16 — The Seahawks want to own the red line. This is a great example. Bryant is in complete control of this route. He knows where he wants to go, he knows he’s getting a back shoulder throw. The corner’s playing to his tune. The back shoulder is the toughest pass to defend as a DB. But you still have to set up, and Bryant does that here. It’s a really crisp route. He deliberately drives to the outside, making it seem like he’s running deep down the sideline. The corner is so concerned about getting beat, it’s relatively easy to adjust and catch the ball on the turn. Great technique.
0:27 — He doesn’t put the guy on his backside, but Bryant’s block here in the run game helped Clemson get a first down.
0:57 — Just a really smart corner route. Finds a soft zone between two defenders, dissects the pair and he’s wide open for the target. This is again about perfecting your craft. He’s not doing anything spectacular here, just his job. Clemson coach their receivers very well and you can see that with Bryant on this play. He knows what he needs to do to make a play. But that also takes work and time on the practise field.
1:09 — This is a terrible throw by Boyd and should’ve been picked. Bryant turns into the defender and manages to smack the ball out of the hands of the corner. This is a big time play, helping his team avoid a turnover. See the replay. Nobody can doubt his commitment and effort.
1:56 — Downfield shot. Doesn’t high point the football but still makes a difficult grab between two defenders for a big 41 yard gain. Seattle loves to take shots like this on play action. Look at the route again. Little stop and go at the top, then he flies downfield. The pass is actually badly under-thrown. Bryant beats the corner and if this is thrown deeper towards the end zone, it’s a touchdown.
0:10 — Again Bryant is let down by his quarterback. He’s got the guy beat on the right sideline. Boyd guides him out of bounds with a wayward pass. If this is thrown out in front of the receiver and into the end zone with a straighter trajectory, it’s a touchdown. Bryant flat out beats the guy and creates separation.
0:33 — Tight coverage downfield, but Bryant makes a difficult catch for a big 47 yard gain. I’m being a bit nitpicky here, but I reckon a softer, higher throw into the end zone and Bryant wins the foot race for a touchdown. It’s a very basic go route on this occasion, nothing special here. But he can make plays like this with his size and speed. And once again, it’s the type of shot Seattle loves to make. They want to go after single coverage.
1:05 — Beats the corner, gets separation and runs away from the defense for a big touchdown. The coverage is terrible — the safety doesn’t sense the danger and come across to help the cornerback. But look how Bryant capitalises for a 76 yard score. One little sniff of a chance and he’s racing into the end zone. And let’s be right — it’s bad safety play. But he completely dominates the corner with a little shimmy. If you look at the replay Clemson uses Sammy Watkins as a decoy in the backfield to draw the safety’s attention. He doesn’t bite, it’s just lousy coverage. But the Seahawks can use a similar play design with Percy Harvin in the backfield and Bryant flying downfield.
2:41 — Classic Seahawks-style shot. Running back comes up to block, Boyd throws down the right sideline trying to win versus single coverage. Bryant competes for the ball in the air and makes a really tough catch for a huge gain. How does he catch this ball? He’s fighting off a blatant hold, he’s got arms all over him. That is special.
I get the feeling Seattle’s been looking for a receiver like this. Not necessarily a pure big man. But a big man with wheels who can compete for the ball and make chunk plays.
Sidney Rice is not a traditional big receiver, but he competes like crazy and makes difficult grabs. He also had enough speed to win downfield (see: game-winner vs New England).
Bryant is like a taller version of Rice with Ricardo Lockette’s athleticism. He runs a 4.42 at nearly 6-4 and 211lbs. He’s competitive (as noted with the hit in the Syracuse game and the way he wins those 50/50 throws downfield in single coverage), but he’s a shade off Rice’s intense energy.
It’s no biggie, though.
There’s plenty of examples where he gets involved in the running game. And that’s what we need to see.
I like the example vs Ohio State below. Fast forward to 0:09:
Boyd takes it in for a score on a keeper. Even when he’s home and hosed, Bryant sprints to get involved and cuts across Ryan Shazier to get in his face and just make absolutely sure.
On the next play in that video, he makes a key block on the left hand sideline.
And while we’re getting into the Ohio State game, look at the fade for a touchdown at 1:34.
Do you need to see any more to believe in this guy?
I found this Tweet interesting today:
Told the New York Jets showing heavy interest in Martavis Bryant/WR/Clemson…
— Tony Pauline (@TonyPauline) March 20, 2014
Don’t be shocked at all if he goes as high as #18. There’s a TON of potential here.
Bob McGinn quoted an unnamed scout referring to him as a “knucklehead”. Do your homework on him. See how he checks out.
Bryant’s definitely shy during interviews. He’s not a good talker like former teammates Sammy Watkins or Nuke Hopkins. His on-field personality is pretty much what you want to see, however. There’s a spark there.
He does have some drops on tape — it’s not all great. But overall there’s a lot to like here.
And some teams will want a bigger receiver. That’s just the way it is. Odell Beckham Jr and Brandin Cooks are very good football players. But they’re sub-6-0.
If you want size, you can get size in this draft. It doesn’t stop with Mike Evans and Kelvin Benjamin.
Some people think guys like Bryant and Donte Moncrief will last until rounds two or three. The more I study, they could easily be part of a mass exodus of receivers leaving the board on day one.
Seattle will be lucky to have Bryant as an option at #32. The more you watch of him, the more there is to like.
Sometimes it just takes a little longer to realise these things.
Q&A with Kenny
2014 NFL draft: #Seahawks draft questions with @RobStaton http://t.co/npqH0dqoPD
— Kenneth Arthur (@KennethArthurS) March 21, 2014
I conducted a Q&A session with Kenneth Arthur at Field Gulls. You’ll find a link in the Tweet above.
Check it out.
Latest Jared Allen news
Two more teams I was a bit surprised about jumped into fray so he's taking a little more time
— Jay Glazer (@JayGlazer) March 21, 2014
Jay Glazer and Jared Allen are tight. This info is legit.
It seems the main motivation behind Allen’s return home for a good think is the other offers on the table.
Here’s my best guess:
— Seattle is offering less money than he wanted, perhaps substantially so. But they’ve also given a hard sell and he knows it’ll be a chance to play for a great team with an unmatched home-field advantage.
— Two teams not as close to contending are offering more money than Seattle. So in the end he has to decide whether to take the hit on the salary to play for a better club, go where the value is or simply do something else with his life.
I’ve been enamored with Bryant’s measurables the whole off-season. It has worried me that he wasn’t able to do a little more, but maybe it was just that Watkins shadow was too large. It has steered me toward preferring Coleman.
At least this draft is looking to be just as exciting as having a top 10 pick.
I think this Guy need a big dose of confidence building.
Sometimes looks indecisive. Over thinking plays.
Bob McGinn quoted an unnamed scout referring to him as a “knucklehead”
“Bryant’s definitely shy during interviews. He’s not a good talker like former teammates Sammy Watkins or Nuke Hopkins”
I think the Seahawks would be a perfect fit for him. Coach PC great confident builder. But is he a good fit for Seattle?
“”Clemson wide receiver Martavis Bryant, according to offensive coordinator Chad Morris, is “every bit as good of an athlete as Sammy” Watkins. The biggest thing with him is just being able to play consistently, be the same guy every day. That’s the thing you like to see with him. He’s as talented a wide receiver as we’ve got. He’s the fastest guy on the team. He’s big, he provides mismatches. It’s just getting his confidence up to where he needs to play at.””
http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/60192/tigers-looking-for-more-from-wr-martavis-bryant?ex_cid=espnapi_public
Russell would love him
While he is certainly a Pete Carroll kind of player, and certainly a talented guy, he seems too similar to Chris Matthews. In 2011 PC/JS assembled the twin towers of BMW and Rice. That was the plan until BMW fell off the face of the Earth again. I see Chris Matthews body control and hands and can’t help but feel he is our next Split End. I think Pete Carroll wants a tall flanker a la Brandon Coleman or Jordan Mathews. I can’t help but be more excited with Matthew’s tape than Bryant’s for that position.
I love the write up Rob. Would love to hear your thoughts on Chris Matthews too.
I feel like projecting him to any kind of starting role would be an enormous stretch. He’ll do well to survive getting cut before training camp even gets going.
Let’s be right here — for every Brandon Browner, there’s a ton of CFL converts who don’t work out. And while that’s not to say Matthews won’t be the next steal from Canada — he’s a future’s contract player. Every team signs a load of these every year and they move on and do other things with their lives. Or go back to the CFL.
I think his presence as essentially a try out player will have little to no baring on what Seattle does in the draft. Sorry to put it as bluntly as that, but he’s just a guy making up the numbers until he proves otherwise.
He has had success at every level. To project anyone from the draft to jump into that role is equally unlikely. I’m basing my observations on film, not statistics of past cfl success rates. I think it would be a mistake to overlook this kid just because most do not make it. Pete knows this kid from LA, and I have to believe it is more than just a Darren Fells-esque signing.
I suppose I was looking to get your opinion on his film, not his chances of making it. If he were a draft choice this year, based on the film available to you how do you like the fit? What is intriguing? What don’t you like? That sotta stuff.
That being said, you know more than I. If the tape doesn’t stand out to you as it does to me, then I trust your scouting a lot more than mine.
My opinion is not one to be vaunted. I’m just a football fan like everyone else, with no special insight into the players entering the NFL. I am no better at scouting than the next man who watches an equal or comparable amount of college football. I just happen to write a blog. Please don’t see my response as anything other than a disagreement on the situation.
I’ve looked for Chris Matthews tape and found only one item — a game he played against South Carolina in 2010. All of the CFL stuff is just highlights and doesn’t include any negative plays. In that one game years ago, he looked pretty good. And yet it’s a solitary game from a long time ago. I don’t usually make firm judgements until I’ve watched three games.
I haven’t written Matthews off. In fact in my previous post I pointed out his background is no guarantee to success or failure. But this is an undisputed fact — all 32 teams sign players to ‘futures’ contracts at the end of the season. And let’s say a rough estimate of what — 95-98% of those players probably don’t make it. We’re talking about a group of guys essentially brought in for try outs or to possibly add a dynamic in camp or as possible practise squad players. It’s a chance, but a small one.
If Matthews even makes the first set of cuts in camp he’ll be a story. And that’s why on Marsh 21st over a month before the draft the idea of him starting is one I can’t get behind. His presence on the roster, such as it is right now, will have zero bearing on the draft. He is going to have to prove he belongs in a totally different way to any rookie drafted in 2014. He’s one step on the ladder up from walking in off the street.
And that’s why we need some perspective with these players. They are a major long shot to make the roster. I really hope he makes it. But I’m not expecting it to happen.
Rob – I’m a Canadian and have followed the Tiger Cats (Hamilton) seriously since 1957 (yikes!) – I’ve seen a lot of Matthews and I like what I see. BUT – the Canadian game (CFL) is VERY different from the NFL: The CFL field is gigantic compared to the NFL – in fact when the NFL starts up (the CFL has already been playing for what seems like eons) when you first watch the US game it’s a bit like watching a soccer game (football to non-yanks worldwide) being played on a a field the size of a hockey rink. Additionally, there is SO MUCH pre-snap motion in the CFL that it is closer to basketball than the NFL.
SO – while Matthews has looked quite wonderful in the CFL, I’ve no real idea how his game will transfer (given his skill set) to the smaller NFL field. Interestingly, I was not too surprised at how well Browner did in the NFL I thought his very physical style of play would work well on the smaller field – and it did.
Thanks for the views here, appreciated.
I grew up in Hamilton watching the Tiger Cats!
Rob, will you be doing a similar piece on Montcreif?
Possibly, although it won’t be as fundamentally positive. Moncrief has a fantastic ceiling, as high as the top receivers in this class. And yet I find his tape incredibly frustrating for the most part.
Agreed. Watching his video frustrates me as well, especially since he has a fair number of fans saying how great he is. For every occasional great athletic play, he does a lot of stupid stuff in between.
I’m looking forward to it – good or bad. He’s a heck of an athlete. This Bryant piece was great, really opened up my eyes to him becoming a Hawk.
Based on the tape, I just cannot justify taking him before 50.
It the little things he does that people don’t see. It kindia funny watch a lot of tape on receivers this year and none of the them even come close to the number of blocks he throws downfield on running plays. Being 21 and a junior he’s at the perfect age to coach him up the right way.
Go watch some Cody Latimer. Great blocker.
I went and watch the 3 games they had of Cody Latimer I don’t see the great blocker. He actually reckless going in low with his head down and whiffs from time to time at other times he hits in the ankle area which would earn a flag in the NFL. He has a nice vertical jump and catches the ball with his hands. Runs a very nice slant pattern but has problems with the speed change to get vertical down field and separate from the defender. Has a problem with come back pattern can never seem to stop and come back shielding the defenders. He seems to lose a little balance and drifts towards the right or left. He is a nice prospect with all the physical tools but he is pretty Raw and would need a lot of coaching. If he was there at pick 160 I take and would definitely grab him in the 6th at 192.
From the limited tape I saw on him (3 games) he sure does remind me a lot like Chris Harper.
Moncrief is actually 20 and will not turn 21 until august.
I am a staunch supporter of Donte Moncrief and think he is a much better prospect than Bryant. And that is not to take anything away from MB.
Moncrief is the more explosive and faster of the two. He has very rapid feet and shows good flexibility and drop in his hips. He uses his hands and feet well in conjunction to regularly and rapidly beat press. And he obliterates cushion when CB’s try to play off.
I have watched all but 2 of his games (not cut ups) from last season and many of his 2012 games, and feel there is a real reasons why his tape can be hard to decipher. First, is the herky jerky game plan that Hugh Freeze utilizes that destroys any attempt to establish a flow. They use a revolving door style 2 QB system that is run heavy zone read scheme that will at times go spread. Additionally, their “throwing QB” Bo Wallace, is a bankrupt man’s version of Tim Tebow. He often only looks to one side of the field, stares down receivers, and has atrocious accuracy issues, and he has a hitch that makes Tebow’s delivery look like Marino’s. If you think Boyd is bad, then Wallace will make you puke. Also, he was the focal point of nearly every defensive game plan Ole Miss saw…almost always being bracketed or doubled. And that is with the phenom Laquan Treadwell on his team!
Alas, as much as I love his game, he has put some weaknesses on tape.
He often remains stationary during scramble drills. But with the emphasis the hawks place on improving this in their players leads me to believe he could turn that around with the help of coach Brown.
His stance could use some work to gain consistency. Again, very fixable.
And, perhaps the most troubling is that during the course of the last season he started to develop a habit of making body catches. He has shown the ability to be a hands catcher in the past, so I think can be worked out of that bad habit with the help of coaching and a far more accurate passer in Wilson.
I would have no problem with taking him at 32.
I believe his is going to be a star in the NFL, I just hope it is with the Seahawks.
I think the division rivals are trying to raise the price by turning the allen signing into a bidding war!
The Hawks wont get into a bidding war. see the melton signing.
I’m not sure if I’d take Bryant with the 32nd pick.. He seems at least a year away from cracking into a starting role in the nfl. I don’t want my first pick to ride the bench all year… first round picks should at least be a contributing factor. I understand that this is a solid team, but there is always room to improve somewhere. I’m just not sure he provides an immediate improvement to this roster.
win forever involves much more than filling an assumed starting role through the first round. If an elite player is forced to compete their way into a starting job, now that is how you win forever!
I’m not sure I’d call him an elite player (I assume you are referring to Bryant). He could potentially be an elite reciever but the bust rate for that position is ridiculous. If PC/JS think think they can make it work cool. I’m not against taking him, there are just players I’d rather have over him. Him in the second like Jon said would make me feel a lot better.
I think the WR bust rate has been grossly overplayed in recent years. Kinda like “OL is a safe pick,” despite not being a safe pick at all.
I wouldn’t say grossly. There is a reason it gets brought up often. No pick is ever a “safe” a la the safest pick in the draft Curry. *shivers* now back to the topic at hand. How high do you think this guy will be on the seahawks radar is he an extreme specimen? Yes. But I don’t think he had put it together enough in college to warrant a first round selection from this franchise. I may be wrong and if so shame on me. I just don’t know how well this team will keep up if they miss on their early round picks. Players that used to be 4th and 5th rounders for us now become 3rd and 4th rounders. To build a dynasty you have to be able to reload through the draft every year.
The reason it gets brought up often, is usually to bolster ones argument for not taking a WR. Which is why I brought up the OL cliche as a parallel point for those who consistently say, best method is to draft OL in R1.
Regarding Bryant, I imagine Seattle thinks very highly of him. He’s Bruce Irvin of WRs. Now, whether that means they think he’s a 1st rounder? I have no idea. And realistically, many prospects never fully put it together in college. So, the real question should be, does Seattle think they can develop his existing physical talent into a more well rounded product? Had a guy with Bryant’s physical talent put it together in college, we’d be looking at a top 10 pick. This is the reason Rob brings up Demaryius Thomas and josh Gordon as examples of guys who didn’t have the consistent tape or production BUT had the skill set of a potentially elite WR.
Where Seattle is picking, you are either going to be looking at a physical specimen who hasn’t put it together OR an average (ish) athlete who is more polished. So, really it is whether you want to gamble on upside or settle for safe. The cool part? Neither choice is right or wrong, as we’ve seen both types of prospects bust as well as turn into All Pros.
All very good points. I could argue that for every Demaryius Thomas there is a trot Williamson (remember that guy?). But I won’t cause that makes me a negative nelly. I guess what I’m getting at is I’m scared to draft a reciever that isn’t named Mike Evans or Sammy Watkins. I suppose being pessimistic could be a good thing but I hope they leave this draft with a early round wr so he can start to work on that chemistry with RW. Sorry if I am coming off as a devil’s advocate, not my intention. Just trying to become as knowledgeable as possible before this draft comes around.
Playing Devil’s advocate is a great thing dude. These are all just opinions anyways. The reason I countered the WR bust rate was that a few years back, there was a horrid run for 1st round WRs (Troy Williams a great example). Over the last few years, I’d actually say that they have been relatively safe. Not that everyone has turned into a superstar, but a great majority have been productive players.
And I’m not necessarily arguing for a WR. I simply think we have a unique opportunity to gamble on a potentially great player over settling for a safe one.
correct. I used elite, when I should have used potentially elite up above in the discusion and so I think that was his point of argument against what I said.
And your not going to find an elite prospect at 32. What you can find is a very good prospect with elite qualities. Bryant most certainly qualifies as that. It is incumbent upon PC to develop that prospect past merely having an elite quality.
Wide receiver position can be hit or miss just like any other choice. Seems like even if you get the uber talent the gods can throw the dice and send injuries their way – or they could have a long injury free career. It is frustrating to have a player like Okung that is so talented but has to play through injuries year after year.
So on wide receiver. Watkins is the only elite wide receiver that I have watched. The rest look good but don’t have his ability. And some years there are receivers who aren’t even drafted who later become stars like Doug Baldwin. So the evaluation systems are not always accurate.
What can we get at 32 that we can’t get later. Size with speed and catching ability. We can find that smaller receiver anywhere on the board. But as long as there is a premium on size, the big receivers who can catch the ball will go early. I like what I saw on tape with Bryant. Not so much his speed as that won’t be as much a factor in the NFL. What I liked was that he fought for the ball and caught it with defenders draped all over him. Good qualities to have. I would grab him at 32 if available. The last time we picked in that range we got Golden Tate, and he turned out okay.
Yeah, not sure I intended to say he was elite, but elite potential has to play a part in the decisions. C-Mike has that type of potential, not that he will be elite. Point is, I cant see this team taking safe picks just because they should be able to start in year one. Instead, they tend to pick players based on the ability to be legit starters or probowl quality.
Yeah, I was just kind of referring to the type of player that I want the Front Office to make based on potential and other factors. I don’t know yet what I think of Bryant overall, just that I could see him being the pick because of potential. There are others I would rather have but Rob did a nice job of pointing out the possible appeal for the hawks. Elite potential, with potential being key.
I’d suggest most receivers entering the NFL are a year away from cracking into a legit starting role. It’s a tough position to learn. But as we saw with Josh Gordon in 2013, sometimes a year’s fine tuning leads to an elite talent.
Seattle shouldn’t try too hard to find ‘immediate impact players’ that they overlook potential stars who need some time.
“Seattle shouldn’t try too hard to find ‘immediate impact players’ that they overlook potential stars who need some time.”
exactly. This is what we saw with Ruskell – drafting players who had performed the best, not players who would perform the best in one year, or three years. Sometimes it makes sense to take the former (2005 Seahawks/Tatupu), but it also limits your ability to draft rare/elite talent that is undeveloped.
I like Bryant but in the second round or a bit later. IMO, he has the body control you often do not see in the taller WR’s. He comes back and competes for the ball. That is all I ask. He is a little raw but I think for a #5 WR he would be fine. In a year or two he could be our No. 1 guy.
Wouldnt you say a potential #1 WR be worth a late 1st rounder?
Potentially… It’s all a gamble. For me he could become the next best thing since sliced bread the odds of that are against him tremendously. Of course you can’t teach most of what he has. I’d just prefer my eggs be put in a different basket. The “knucklehead” reports throw me off quite a bit. If we’re looking at a project I’d rather go after coleman in the 2nd even if you trade up some for him.
The all have potential. I want more of a sure bet for greatness in the first round. We have filled our WR corps with UDFA’s. Sometimes you can over think the draft selection process. You find a good kid with skills and let him develop in your system like Kearse. If he follows the coaching then you have someone that can play.
I don’t know that there is allways a sure bet for greatness with the 32nd pick of the first round. The question we may be faced with is whether we want a player with the chance of greatness, or a player that is a likely bet to be a slightly above average starter in the nfl.
Yeah, MB has great body control, which is rare for the big guys. He also is explosive off the LOS and out of breaks, another rare quality amongst bigs.Great speed and springs. Good at high pointing, hands catching and winning 50-50″s.The Percy Harvin factor will occupy opposing FS’s from helping. So he would only have to beat the CB on most plays. I think this kid is high on our board!
IF…PCJS draft MB, he will contribute as a deep threat and a red zone threat immediately, IMO. I believe he might be high on their board.
I have MB and Jordan Matthews as the WR top options available with the first pick for the Seahawks. Other teams may have different guys on their board above them, but with Sammy and Mike off the board, the size/speed combo we are most likely looking for, will be limited. I’m not a huge Brandon Coleman guy. I liked him last year, but haven’t noticed enough improvement to place him higher on my list this year. He is a third round prospect imo. Not saying they take a WR with the first round pick, but if they do, those two guys offer the most potential imo. Albeit for totally different reasons… Size aside, Matthews is very textbook savvy, where MB is extremely explosive athletically, both players offer something the roster could use. Matthews is the “safer” pick imo. He will be productive in the league. MB will need to be groomed, but has a higher ceiling due to his athletic abilities. It may sound weird, but I would have MB ahead on this list due to Seattle’s current WR core. I believe even without Tate returning, the WR’s will perform well. MB offers the highest ceiling, kind of reminds me of a poor mans Randy Moss… Moss had the confidence needed to come in the league and be a star. MB played behind two of college footballs great WR’s. He needs an opportunity to carry the baton. He showed a growth in maturity and play on the field this past season. I consider his ability to grow a great asset coming into the draft. It shows he has some grit about him. Also he is not afraid to go up in a crowd for the ball. He improved on and off the field. His stock may continue to rise as the process continues. I think he will go in the late first to early 2nd round.
I’m going to write a piece on Matthews this week detailing why I think we’re totally overstating his ability.
Off topic: Whatever happened to Kip?
I was waiting for this article. How is he a knucklehead? Can one of you explain this to me?
I watched a post-game interview and he talked a lot about hard work and watching film. When he was asked to talk about his TD play, it came out that he saw an opportunity after observing FS tendencies on previous plays. He told the Coach, who took the insight to heart and called the play. I came away impressed with his football smarts and work ethic… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlErsh-wN8Y
that’s an impressive interview. thanks for pointing it out.
Yeah, I saw the same interview and mentioned it here.
It is what some scout said. Without much backing it up, and it was just one of many different opinions. The media seems to like highlighting controversy and what better way than to call a player a knucklehead. One GM also called this the most deep class talent wise while at the same time calling it the most immature. Just opinions that get advertised.
No idea. Just quoting what the scout said in that piece. I’ve no info there, and there’s nothing obvious online.
I’m also curious about this. It can be such a black mark to question a prospect’s nature, but what is the source?
If it comes from in house coaching, then it is something to be checked on. But, from the media it can be about as much tripe as the whole “fake smile” stuff you here some press spout off.
Kids got a high ceiling, but it’d make me nervous as hell taking him with the 1st pick. He blocks like a girl and seems to be really shy about almost any contact at the line. Very raw as a player in general and even in best case would probably be a 1st year role player at best. NFL bust wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest, nor would borderline pro-bowler at some point.
Depending on what’s there, our WR position is so bad I still wouldn’t be opposed necessarily. I personally prefer Jordan Matthews. Same ballpark as far as physical attributes (not quite as impressive as Martavis, but close), but just a much tougher guy in general. Can fight at the line and beat up on CBs a bit, and has a bit more polish at this early stage in their careers as well. If Jordan is gone (and Kelvin) then Martavis would be one to consider though.
I agree Chris. I like Jordan Matthews a lot. He is stronger, has larger hands, and longer arms, so the standing reach is about the same. The big difference is Jordan Matthews makes the more difficult catches in traffic- and one handed at times. He is more muscular and is a better run blocker.
I like MB as a close second choice, but his skinny frame looks like an ACL injury waiting to happen. I wonder about his work ethic also. Is he another Stephen Williams or Chris Matthews and CFL bound? No one knows. The videos were very helpful. I saw MB cathch a few with his hands which is a good sign.
none of our current WRs (nor Tate) was known for their blocking before coming to the Seahawks, but they are all respected for their effort and technique now.
His skinny stature is slightly troubling. It looks like his frame may be maxed out, so I wouldn’t expect him to add significant strength, even with a NFL S&C workout plan.
However, he is a willing blocker and has looked decent when called upon. So there is something there to work with.
Also, when looking for a touchdown maker, blocking ability should be looked at as a bonus and not a determining factor.
I’ll have to disagree here. Bryant’s blocking is more than fine for me. I’m not sure we should expect receivers to be blowing up cornerbacks. He shows intent and willing to block and that’s all we can ask.
Matthews is extremely finesse IMO. And despite his production, he’s got worse hands than a lot of people think. He drops some very easy grabs. I’m not sure how he’s managed to develop the reputation he has. Average is the perfect way to describe him. I’d take Paul Richardson ahead of him.
I think i can help with how he developed his reputation –
He size and speed are impressive. He was the only offensive weapon for his team with a less then mediocre QB. He broke the SEC records for catches and yards. His routes are crisp, his football IQ looks very high. He can run with ball after the catch. He was targeted by every defense they played against and still had 50% of their passing yards, over 100 catches, over 1400 yards. Good eye hand coordination, good blocking and great against the zone.
Yes, he drops balls. Yes, he does use his speed to get separation. Yes, he is not that great at getting the ball when challenged. Still, PC said look at what he can do not what he can’t do and he can do quite a lot.
It’s not the next CJ but he can give RW a smart target.
I can understand why some may not like him as much as others but to say his “reputation” is unclear is a bit unfair. He has earned it.
sorry, he does NOT use his speed to get separation…
But you already know all that Rob so i’ll just shut up and wait to read you view.
Appreciate all views and opinions — and thank you for sharing yours on JM.
His blocking is more than fine?
Watch that first video you posted. There’s a couple of blocks where MB literally folds his hands into his chest like a mummy and “hits” the guy in front of him. That’s about as pathetic an attempt at a block as can be demonstrated. That isn’t going to fly against the weakest of the weak DB’s in the NFL.
The guy is as soft as they come. He makes Sidney Rice look like a monster. IMHO Matavis Bryant is the next AJ Jenkins. He’s got all the tools, all the glitz and glamour, with no substance behind it.
I don’t see PCJS spending a first round pick on a guy who can’t block and probably can’t contribute on special teams. How would this kid earn a spot while he’s developing? We already have Lockette. A raw speed guy who’s developing. I don’t see the point in spending a first round draft pick on Rickardo Lockette 2.0.
In fairness, a 1st round WR….I could care less about his blocking ability. It’s an added perk, but I’m more concerned what they can do to catch the ball and score TDs. I know we are a running team, but if the reason we pass on a WR in R1 is because of his ability to block, then I have a huge problem with that line of thinking. It’s the later round guys who I’d expect to contribute more on special teams and blocking.
Ricardo Lockette, btw, is also 28 years old. By the time he develops, he could be ordering off the back of the Denny’s menu.
We’ll have to agree to disagree Kory. His blocking is fine for me. Like I said earlier, we shouldn’t expect exploding corners and bodies all over the field. Blocking is a side issue, even in Seattle’s offense. Can he make plays downfield? Yep. Can he exploit 1v1 coverage? Yep. Is he a willing blocker? Yep.
But does he give us anything that Ricardo Lockette doesn’t? The only different between him and Lockette is 2 inches. Besides those 2 inches they are the same guy. Lanky, tall, pure speed wide receivers with questionable hands and a whole lot to be desired.
I just find it hard to justify reaching at WR with our first pic. We spent last years first and third at WR. How we we justify taking another WR at number one, especially one as risky as MB?
I really think if we go WR at 32 it will be someone of good value. I don’t think Mathews or Moncrief or Adams should be taken at 32. I certainly think a project like MB would be a terrible reach at 32. Somebody will be around at 64 with great value, and if not, we wait. There’s no reason to reach.
Why do we need a guy to take the top off a defense anyway? Don’t we just need solid puzzle pieces to insert around Percy Harvin? Shouldn’t we trust Bevell to utilize Harvin in a way that lets our other WR’s shine? Is it prudent to take on a project at WR this year, or should we fortify the position with someone who can step in and contribute a little sooner? How can we justify Lynches money if we are mortgaging our last two drafts at the WR position? That would be two first round picks and a third and 4th in our last 2 drafts going towards the WR position. I don’t think we can justify Lynchs salary with that kind of focus being thrown at WR, As well as Michael being ready to step in behind him. Not to mention we throw the ball less than any team in the league. Doesn’t add up.
So yea, I expect us to go O-line@32 unless a WR with good value drops, like OBJ or Kelvin Benjamin. I can’t imagine us reaching for a WR like MB though. A stout O-line really helps the skill position players anyhow. IMHO a good team is built from the inside out.
I think it’s a bit unfair to compare Lockette and Bryant just because they’re both tall and fast. I would argue that yes, there’s a lot more to Bryant’s game than just an extra two inches in height. You could just as easily say Bryant is a more athletic, taller version than Sidney Rice. Who wouldn’t want that for $1-2m a year for the next four years? It’s easy to compare like that.
I’ve be hesitant about MB as well but I think you are underestimating what he can bring to this recieving corps. This is a guy RW can throw the ball up on 3rd and long and MB will give a good effort to make sure that ball is his. Ricardo Lockette is a very unfair comparison. Sure they both have height and speed, but that’s where it ends in my mind. Lockette is guy who you just send down the field in a straight line. MB can do that as well but he has learned to be able to use his body as a shield between the ball and defender. Can he get better in that facet? For sure. I understand the doubts (I have mine as well). I’d feel more comfortable with him in the 2nd, but he very well may not be there.
I think it’s dangerous to draft these guys early.
Why do you think MB will work out his kinks in the pro ranks if he hasn’t been able to do it in the college ranks? I’m not saying these things don’t work out, it happens all the time…. I just think it’s a terrible idea to take these chances so early in the draft.
Maybe if we needed somebody special to “take us over the top” MB might look more attractive. We don’t though, we already have a great team. We need a solid guy on the outside who catches everything thrown his way. We need an intelligent guy who can learn the system quickly. We are trying to win another trophy this year. The best way to do that is to plug in guys that can learn the offense and won’t miss a beat.
“We are trying to win another trophy this year. The best way to do that is to plug in guys that can learn the offense and won’t miss a beat.”
Players like this are not easily found at #32 in round one.
To a point, I agree with with you that MB would provide little that is not already provided by Lockette. But, RL has already reached his ceiling, while MB is still a raw prospect with room to grow.
Why do you need to be able to take the top off the defense?
Because chunk plays and touchdowns.
It can not be overstated how much it is necessary for deep attack hybrids of the WCO need to be able to regularly attack deep effectively. This FO will not stop looking for players that can perform that very important task.
This one of the few times I completely agree with Rob here.
A few words about WR and Allen –
While we look at various 1st/2nd round receivers we should bare in mind the following:
The SB 48 champions completed 18 of 25 passes in the SB to 8 different catchers. The 2 passing TDs were by 2 undrafted receivers with neither great speed nor special size. I.E. – it can be done.
Any of the names mentioned look better then Baldwin or Kearse before their draft and they came up pretty good. Somewhere between the future contract guys and whoever we pick out of those great potential talents we’ll find the guy to make it work. It’s fun to look, probe and check but either way we’ll be fine. I still have the feeling that Lockett will end up surprising us all this year just like Kearse did last year. (and sorry Rob but i’m still very high on J.M.)
As for Allen – One thing is clear to me – He didn’t get a better offer then Bennett got. That would cause internal issues they do not want. That puts his upper limit at 7M a year and is probably less then that (5-6M). Other teams understand that and his 2nd visit is an indication for them that maybe he is available to them at 7-8M a year hence the new candidates. He is the last big name still standing. Some of those end up having to play for less and will pick the best place to play at less and some will end up benefiting from the last 2-3 teams fighting for the last big name to sign. I hope that during this weekend he will understand that either way he wont get the kind of money that others got. If he is as proud as he seems to be he is left with 2 options – Play for the ring like a rabid dog with a chip on your shoulder or retire. The weekend gives him enough time to prepare his statement as a great player who only cares about winning. The option of “getting what i truly deserve” is not on the table.
Allen with a chip on his shoulder sounds very seahawky.
Great post!
Considering that we are paying Avril 8 million per year on a 2 year contract, why wouldn’t Allen expect the same? If we did offer 5 million then he is going to look around more, and maybe he will accept our offer later. My observation of free agency is that 1-2 players in a critical position (like DE or QB) get really good pay in the 10 million range, 2-4 get medium pay of 5-6 million, and the majority get paid in the 3-4 million range.
There doesn’t always seem to be a reason why one elite player gets 12 million and another elite player with equal abilities gets 8. Mostly it is the first one to sign with a team that has excess cap,
Personally I would like to see some of our bench players on the field. We got so many people that never even get in the game and we are about to add 7 more. Mayowa can you really replace Clemons? Michael will you ever rotate with Lynch or are you just a cloud of dust in a dream? Come on coach — put them in the game!!!!
We are paying Avril 6.5 Million per year. 2013 was 3.5, and 2014 will be 9.5. 2 years 13 million. He was also 26 when he signed that contract, so there is that as well.
I agree about the players we allready have. I think there is a lot of potential that is sitting on the bench. My problem is we have to release a promising young player if we sign Allen, though I would love to have him to.
It’s not a question of is he worth it or not. After letting Bennett check the market and having him sign a hometown discount contract – He would feel disrespected if they suddenly have the money to pay someone else more. That would create issues in the locker room…
Rest assured Allen will not get more then Bennett.
I like the potential of Bryant and would be fine with him as our first round pick, but it really is a crapshoot where he’ll go and how the draft falls. I’d like to think SEA would consider Bitonio, Moses, or B Thomas in the first round too and possibly go WR with their 2nd pick. I would be shocked if they don’t trade down at least once in their first 2 picks, probably #64 being more likely. I’m very curious to see how Cody Latimer does at the IU pro day on the 26th. I’ve brought up Latimer before, and I see him as a SEA target in the middle rounds if they miss out on one of the top WR prospects on their board. Obviously that will depend on how he runs on Wednesday, but I have a feeling he’ll put up some impressive numbers. Latimer seems to have good explosiveness and is a pretty decent blocker with good strength (23 bench reps). He was a D1 hoops recruit, so I’m expecting a good vertical leap. A lot of raw tools to work with, it just depends on how/if he can develop. I personally like his upside more than others such as Jordan Matthews and Allen Robinson. Then again I’m not paid to be a scout, probably for good reason!
Totally agree on Latimer. I see him as an under-the-radar, better version of Donte Moncrief.
I just watched a bit more tape on Latimer since they posted the Mich and Mich St games after I had last looked. Here’s the Mich St. tape since he has some action against Dennard, who will most likely be a first rounder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu-UFQCGah4 . I was especially encouraged with his contested TD against Dennard at 1:40 and then his great blocking at 2:12. On the TD catch, he didn’t do much route-wise, but boxed out Dennard and snatched the ball out of the air showing strong hands. The blocking was great since he engaged the corner right away and stayed on him until the runner scored the TD. There were also a few bubble screens to Latimer where he showed good burst and broke a few tackles. Some nice slant routes in there too. He does need to work on finding the ball better on his deep routes, but there’s a lot to work with here.
Enjoyed Rob’s viewpoints on Bryant! Warming up to MB as a high ceiling prospect! I definitely see the comparison as a more athletic Sidney Rice. The only things that are missing in all the tape is he hasn’t shown he can high point the ball(lack of opportunity), and he was always the #2-3 option in Clemson’s offense. MB wasn’t the focal point for opposing defenses, as Watkins and Hopkins before him were the big threats. Maybe I’m reading too much into that, but to me that should mean MB would put up bigger numbers. Matthews put up huge #’s being basically Vandy’s only offensive option. MB’s willingness as a blocker is encouraging, as is Moncreif’s…this is where Matthews stock takes a big hit(lack of willingness to block). As with a handful of other players I wouldn’t be upset if we selected Bryant at #32, but would way rather get an Olinemen than WR early…view Oline as a way bigger need.IMO
I like the MB pick for us at 32 a whole lot better than Botonio. And the thing to remember is that if players like MB and Moncrief start gaining traction and go in the first round, that will mean players like Hageman, Tuitt, Moses, Shazier, etc will have a better chance of being there for us at 32. What this means is that there are probably more players with solid first round grades in this draft than in most previous drafts and there is bound to be a really good player there for us at 32 regardless of position. And that is really what I want to see – take a play-making, difference-maker at 32 regardless of need or position. What few needs we have will sort themselves out later.
As for Allen, I think he is gone. If he really wanted to sign in Seattle he would have done it by now. This whole stewing time over the weekend here strikes me as nothing more than his agent trying to draw other teams into a bidding war and squeeze out as much money as possible. I don’t think he cares much about winning. He just wants to get as close to the contract that got pulled out from under his feet by Denver as he can, and doesn’t really care what team offers it to him. That is almost certainly not going to be us. Time for our red-shirt young guns to step up.
Agree with you on Allen and the rest.
This year’s draft has enough talent that there should be some really good football players at 32.
I’ve liked Bryant for awhile now – he’s big and strong and Watkins has overshadowed him. I’d be very happy with him at 32. I think the FO is setting up for a WR pick at 32. While they may be adding camp bodies, getting a couple of OL in this week, re-signing McCoy makes me think they are making sure they have all options available at 32 and won’t have to pick any position.
Allen is a luxury signing – and I’m happy to see that we are not offering him the moon. I know we have had problems developing pass rushers, and that is why Bennett signing was so important, but I don’t want us handcuffing ourselves for the ability to extend Sherm and Earl.
I really wish the draft was still in April – May is so far out!
Rob – Are you going to write anything about Schilling? I am curious about his previous record with San Diego.
I don’t know a great deal about him, apart from he struggled to crack a San Diego line that was desperate for help the last few years. So I’m not optimistic.
I think Jared Abbredaris would be a great pick up late in the draft.
He is 6-1, runs a 4.5, and all ready has experience w Russell Wilson!
Any takers?
I Agree with you on Abberdaris, they say hes a quarterback at the Wide receiver position. Hes not the fastest or the tallest guy but he is very savvy in his route running. For a late round pick I would like him.
I like Abbredaris a lot, but I think his skillset is redundant with what we have between Kearse and Baldwin. Abby is a very good route runner with good hands. He can get behind the defense, but not because of blazing speed. In addition he’s had a few concussions already. I think he’ll end up getting drafted earlier than SEA would be willing to take him anyway.
It can be infuriating at times to watch Boyd throw.
Very.
Promise has to become Production at some point if you want to have a career as a professional athlete.
I think competition encourages development. We will have 2-3 open spots in the D-line rotation depending on whether Allen signs and we have at least 5 young hungry dogs. I would love to be the coach who tells them, “Here is what you have wanted all your life. Now go get it!” I can’t wait to see what Williams, Hill, Mayowa, Scruggs and Boatwright show us. I am hoping we add another dog or two in the draft. Maybe I am being too optimistic but Stephon Tuitt is starting to look like might slide.
As far as the article goes, Martavis Bryant at 32 makes a lot of sense. The flaws in his game seem coachable. He projects as a big, fast, red-zone target and potential #1. That ticks all the boxes for me. There are other similar receivers in the draft so if PCJS pick one of them at 32 (or 64 – or even 32 and 64), I’ll be OK.
A little O/T but anyone have any idea why Hawks would be looking at D-Jax of Philly? As intriguing as it seems, the $$ just isn’t there. Rob, any scenario where this is remotely possible? Maybe a player swap, similar to the champ bailey for (insert running back) trade that Denver and the Skins made.
The only similar player on the roster in terms of skill set/salary is Percy Harvin.
Redundant. Expensive. Headache.
Don’t see how he is redundant. There is no player on the roster, this year or last, that can take the top off a defense like Jackson. If you want to generate explosive pass plays, he’s your man.
Here’s good: you have a third round grade on Russell Wilson when most other teams have him fourth through seventh round.
Here’s lucky: he actually was a top of the first round talent, and no one could see that, and no one picked him just ahead of you in the third.
Here’s both lucky and good: the Seahawks two greatest needs are WR and OL, and those are the two best-stocked positions in the draft, and you just know that PC & JS will nail one of each in R1 and R2.
Based on measureables alone, I like these 5 WRs
A) 6’4″, 34.5″ arms, 211 lbs, 9.25″ hands, 4.5s 40, 18 bench reps, 34.5″ vert, 126″ broad, 6.9s 3 cone, 4.2s 20 short shuttle
B) 6’2″, 34″ arms, 225 lbs, 9.75″ hands, 4.5s 40, 14 bench reps, 38″ vert, 133″ broad, 7.1s 3 cone, 4.5s short shuttle
C) 6’4″, 32.5″ arms, 211 lbs, 9.5″ hands, 4.4s 40, 16 bench reps, 39″ vert, 124″ broad, 7.2s 3 cone, 4.2s short shuttle
D) 6’3″, 34″ arms, 220 lbs, 9.75″ hands, 4.4s 40, 17 bench reps, 38.5″ vert, 135″ broad, 6.7s 3 cone, 4.3s short shuttle
E) 6’4″, 33″ arms, 230 lbs, 10.25″ hands, 4.5s 40, no bench, 36.5″ vert, 122″ broad, 6.7s 3 cone, 4.2s short shuttle
Unless you really know your combine/pro day numbers, it’s almost impossible to differentiate Martavis Bryant amongst Julio Jones, AJ Green, Dez Bryant, and Alshon Jeffery…
M Bryant is C, and the others are A, B, D, and E, respectively. Brandon Marshall and Josh Gordon have similar numbers, but I can’t find arm length and hand size. Although Gordon, Jeffery, and Marshall were not 1st round picks, all of those other players have proven worthy of a top ten pick, even if it took a year to get there.
In the tape above, he runs decent enough routes that he can learn a fairly extensive route tree, even if he doesn’t have small receiver quickness in and out of cuts (he doesn’t need it). He catches the long ball in stride, unlike our current WR group who seem to always break stride at the catch on long throws (possibly a component of the throw? or coaching?). He lets a few throws come into his body, but often when there is imminent contact, body catches assure a higher chance of controlling the ball; at the same time, he displays nice hands on quite a few catches above. He also displays the ability numerous times to track the ball over his shoulder, and make the catch without turning back to it, something that many players never develop.
He’d be reaching his contract year exactly when Harvin’s expires. He will be 23 this December, perhaps slightly older than ideal, but not the oldest of his peer draft group. IF Bryant is there at 32, I would be elated with this pick, but wouldn’t expect much in the way of dividends for the first season.
sorry, B) is Dez Bryant and D) is AJ Green
Pete is unusually honest for an NFL head coach, though it often seems cryptic. His comments today on Sirius radio about Jared Allen clearly portrayed the holdup as being about money, no surprise. Pete said that they are constrained by “other concerns” related to “extending.” This means that Seattle has put aside money to re-sign existing players (read Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman), and simply has no more available beyond what they have already offered Allen. Allen, Pete said, faced “a business decision” ie: money question. Clearly, it seems that the speculation that Jared Allen is incredulous about his low offers (especially in light of Ware and Peppers) has him unwilling to commit to the best offer on the table (the Seahawks). His pride must be torn between waiting to see if a better offer will come in (very unlikely according to Prof John Clayton), or whether just to retire in a huff. Let’s hope he accepts his situation and joins the Seahawks as soon as possible (because I am unconvinced by our Plan B, since I don’t even know what that plan is to replace Clemons…. Mayowa? Dee Ford? puh-lease.