Instant reaction: Seahawks blow another fourth quarter lead


There are a lot of words people will search for to describe Seattle’s latest defeat. Some won’t be printable on a family blog.

I plumped for ‘confusing‘. Despite what people might tell you (probably in an angry social media rant) it’s almost impossible to explain what just happened.


The Seahawks have blown fourth quarter leads in six of their last eight games — a statistic that is utterly preposterous in the Pete Carroll era. Really bad teams don’t collapse in this manner — let alone Super Bowl caliber teams that actually preach ‘finishing’ as a key philosophy.

One of Seattle’s other mantra’s? Win the turnover battle. Once again mission accomplished. Once again it doesn’t translate to a victory.

It doesn’t make sense.

The offense and defense share equal responsibility.

Tasked with another chance to close a game out in the fourth quarter, the offense stuttered and stalled again. The play calling was once more questionable, if understandable. Seattle came out throwing and struggled to kill any clock. Maybe it was the aggressive move to make? The Seahawks had struggled to run up the middle against Carolina. The run-run-throw-punt formula hadn’t worked on a couple of earlier drives.

They were aggressive and tried to win with a Super Bowl winning quarterback. It almost felt like they knew they couldn’t trust the defense. They had to win it here. Unfortunately the fragility of the passing offense was once again exposed.

The Seahawks have the weapons to be a deadly passing attack even without an elite offensive line. They showed it today with Jimmy Graham running riot. Yet there’s also something missing this year — and that’s where the word ‘confusing’ comes back into play. What exactly is the problem?

Wilson is still making plays. His stat line isn’t that bad again today. They didn’t turn it over. They finally got Graham rolling. The protection wasn’t too bad. So why does the passing game appear to be regressing at a time when it technically should be as potent as ever?

The drive stalled. Seattle punted. And there was that familiar sinking feeling.

Having once again failed to mount a closing drive in the fourth quarter — it was up to the defense to make the game winning stop.

And once again — they failed.

Anyone who wants to label this loss squarely at the offense will be letting the defense right off the hook. The Panthers coasted along during their 80-yard game winning march. The only resistance came via a Bruce Irvin sack — but even on 2nd and 19 the Panthers had all the answers.

The winning score saw two all-pro elite defensive backs allow obvious target Greg Olsen to run free into the end zone. Of all the players in all the situations. Cam Newton probably couldn’t believe his luck. Another blown coverage against a dynamic tight end. What is more confusing here? That it keeps happening, or that this particular gaffe involved two of Seattle’s best?

After the game it was revealed Thomas and Sherman received two different defensive calls. How does this happen?

Like the passing offense, Seattle’s elite defensive unit lurches between adept and anonymous. They were fearsome, explosive and opportunistic at times today. Earl Thomas played like a man possessed, Cliff Avril caused problems for the Panthers O-line and Kam Chancellor had an excellent leaping interception.

And yet all of Carolina’s touchdown drives appeared comfortable. Play after play after play. A few times this season there’s been almost a feeling of inevitability about the way a drive is going to end.

Bend but not break? This defense is officially broken.

For some reason the fourth quarter has become a monstrous, impossible, all-conquering demon to this team. And everyone shares the blame.

The confusing part comes in trying to work out how to fix it. What is it exactly they are doing wrong? Especially when they dominate certain drives and fall apart in others?

The end product is a 2-4 team staring at a wasted season. The Seahawks go on the road to San Francisco and Dallas in two games that will determine whether they have any chance of salvaging the 2015 campaign.

How do they turn it around? There’s no Percy Harvin to trade. There doesn’t seem to be any weird atmosphere around the team that requires fixing. You might question their emotional state after two disastrous losses.

They had a week to try and avoid a repeat of last weeks agonising defeat. Having failed, how do they sort it out during a short week?

Calling for people to lose their jobs might make you feel better but it won’t achieve anything today. It also lets the players off the hook — and they, ultimately, are the ones not executing. They must take a large portion of the responsibility.

It’s up to them now. The players. Russell Wilson is no longer the plucky third rounder. He’s a +$20m a year quarterback and has to deliver when it matters (the fourth quarter). The Legion of Boom and the rest of a loaded defense — paid handsomely — have to stand up to be counted and make this work at key moments (the fourth quarter).

There are too many good players, too many big salaries and too much expected of this team to let a year go to waste.

And yet if they don’t return to form soon — if they don’t stop blowing fourth quarter leads — we’re going to be talking about the NFL Draft and not the playoffs in January.


  1. sdcoug

    I have been one of Bevell’s bigger critics. I was finally set to give him kudos for a well-called game. Unpredictable sequences, smart plays with Graham, let Russ do what he does best, moved the chains, etc. Then comes the 4th Qtr and I now take back all my positive thoughts.

    Yes, we have a Defense (coaches) that refuses to be aggressive until it’s too late, keeps everything in front of them except for the one time it absolutely matters the most, and has given away a late lead in 6 straight games….

    However, I still contend this is mostly on the Offense. Second half? Run, Run, Russ swallowed up on pass, Punt. I know I’m being a bit simplistic, but this O simply has to find a way to stay on the field if not score points.

    At this point I’d like to see the Coaches finally unchain both units and say “F-it, Here we come, Try and stop us”. If we lose, we lose…but this team could be So Much More.

    • Rob Staton

      Defense gave up an easy 80-yard drive in a minute and change to lose the game. Offense had a bad fourth quarter, but defense deserves equal share in the blame.

      Also, offensive players have to execute. Bevell will get hammered again this week. Let’s the players off the hook.

      • sdcoug

        Hey man, I have plenty blame to go around…trust me. I just think it starts with Coaching. Offensively and defensively

        • Rob Staton

          Not trying to be difficult, I promise. But how much of that is because the perception is you can replace the coaches? Or that they are easier to single out then the players?

          Because for me — there’s too much talent on this team not to finish games like this whatever the offensive or defensive play call is. They have to execute.

          • Tien

            I agree with you Rob, most of the blame is with the players’ execution. Bevell’s play calling was good enough to get us to two straight SBs so why is it so bad now? I do get frustrated at some of Bevell’s calls but they aren’t any worse this year. On offense, we want to be the same running grind it out team but due to our lousy (improving but still not great) OL and Beatmode not being healthy, is not close to being the dominant running team that we want to be. With the addition of Graham, I think that we finally have enough weapons around Wilson for him to be successful and take the next step as a QB. It took longer than most of us thought for Graham and Wilson to sync with each other and today was the breakout that we expected to see in every game between Graham & Wilson. Even though our OL is not doing a great job of run blocking or pass pro and in many instances, Wilson has to run for his life, there have also been many other times, when he’s had time and either can’t find an open receiver or misses the passes. Even on that long flea flicker to Lockette, Wilson underthrew that ball terribly and if Lockette didn’t make a great effort to fight for it, it wouldn’t have been a TD and it could have easily be an interception. I also wonder how comfortable/good Russell is at pre-reads when gets to the LOS. Last week, I saw some progress where it appeared that he recognized a few blitzes and audibled out of them for positive plays. Today, it didn’t appear that he audibled out of any plays and just ran them as called, leading to at least one play late in the game where it seemed obvious that the Panthers were loading up for a blitz and of course, Wilson got sacked. I also don’t understand that with all the attention paid to Graham by the defense (on one play, he was triple teamed) why we don’t have a hot read or why Wilson can’t find other receivers to throw to that are covered 1:1. I’m not laying most/all of the offense’s blame on Russell but if the OL is weak and the running game is sputtering and if you’re really worthy of your new $20 million/year contract then you, the QB, need to step up and lead the offense and so far, it hasn’t happened. On a side note, I watched the Colts/Patriots game and during the broadcast, one of the announcers said that Brady spent the offseason working on his footwork so that he would be more mobile and effective in the pocket when pressured by the pass rush. I think Russell’s off-season improvement plan was improving his running so that he would get faster? Umm, so maybe next offseason, work on more QB skills like pre-reads and getting the ball out quicker?

            The defense has also been very disappointing. Like the offense, it had some great moments with the sacks and interceptions of Brady but these were just random bright spots and we could not consistently stop the Panthers and again gave up too many big plays and could not get off the field on third downs. I think the Panthers had at least 3 scoring drives of 80 yards or more.The TD pass that we gave up to Olson to lose the game was pathetic. Olson was the only receiver lined up on that side of the field and he was the ONLY real receiving threat on the Panthers and yet we still left him wide open going down the seams. After the fact, we learned that two defensive calls were sent in on that play. In that respect, the coaching staff bears part of the blame but regardless, whomever is captain of the D, whether it’s Earl or Kam or Sherman, one of them had to ensure that EVERYONE was on the same page about the defensive coverage that was to be played. That level of miscommunication and confusion is totally unacceptable from a veteran defense and especially among our All Pro and Pro Bowl defensive leaders. I don’t know what the answer is but time for the coaches to earn their pay and figure out why the players aren’t executing. That’s what it really comes down to. Rob’s right, we have too much talent on this team to continually give away games like this.

            The season’s not over but if our play doesn’t improve and we don’t win one or both of our next games, it may be time to start thinking about next season.

            • sdcoug

              Tien, everything you say is absolutely true. But most of what you said also falls under responsibility of the Offensive Coordinator (I am not letting the players or the Defense off the hook here, cause they are equally complicit). But let me counter a bit of what you said:

              Bevell’s play-calling was good enough to get us to two SBs, true. But that does not mean it is immune from critique, or can’t be improved, adjusted or run more efficiently. It also overlooks just how many games the last 3 years came down to the last defensive stand or magical Russ improvisations to grasp a last-second victory. As some have stated, we have won many games possibly in spite of Bevell, not because of him.

              You mention a lousy O-line. Can’t be denied. But until the first half of yesterday’s game, I have seen very little evidence of Bevell trying to mitigate this deficiency. No quick passes or slants. Very few hot routes or safety valves. Long-developing pass plays that inevitably get Russ swallowed in the pocket. Running Graham deep instead of 6 yd chains-movers.

              Last week against Cinci, the Oline played pretty darn well and Rawls ran for something like 130+. Yet in the second half, once again we could not move the chains (6 straight 3-and-outs?) or score even a few points. Oline played well, yet this is still on the Oline?

              You say Russ finally has the weapons around him to take the next step. Isn’t this a bit contradictory then? I know you likely mean it’s on the players…and to some extent I agree. But you can’t really overlook who is responsible for effectively using or creating a game-plan for those weapons, can you?

              When Russ has time he can’t find an open receiver. If Russ has time, then he either isn’t making his progressions, is reluctant to let it fly, or play designs need to more effectively spring open the weapons we do have. This isn’t a one game anomaly where we can’t move the chains, this is a trend that largely goes back to last season. Russ ducking out of 8 sacks, scrambling for 10 seconds and hitting a receiver on a side-line toe-tap is hardly a designed offense.

              • Tien

                Good points sdcoug and I’m not saying I know the answers or that I’m in right in my opinions but I’m not convinced Bevell is the main culprit for our failures on offense. At one point or another, we’ve all complained about his predictability and how boring our offense is/has been but I’m open to the idea that he calls the plays he calls due to the limitations of our players and the talent on our team. The FO/coaching staff has made the conscious decisions to spend our cap on our defense and this year, our QB, and to go cheap on the OL. Cable may be an OL genius but working with UDFAs and converted DLs as starting OL does limit your offense’s effectiveness and probably the types of plays you can call. In the last couple of weeks, the OL’s play has greatly improved to competence but in both games, for whatever reason, in the 4th quarter, it wasn’t opening up the holes for the runs and the pass protection was not as good either. No idea why but until the OL can play competent consistently through the course of the games, it doesn’t matter what plays are called, the chances of them being successful aren’t going to be high.

                I also wonder if the reason why Bevell doesn’t call more quick hits or slants is because Russell doesn’t throw them well. Almost every team in the league throws quick slants to counter pressure but we hardly ever do and while we may question Bevell’s play calling from time to time but there’s no way he’s stupid so there must be a reason why he doesn’t call slants. Maybe Russell isn’t accurate enough yet or maybe he doesn’t trust the system enough to just throw to a pre-determined spot at a pre-determined time and believe that the receiver will be there to catch it. Russell’s been fantastic scrambling around behind our below average OL for years and making big plays out of it but maybe all this scrambling around for his life and playground football is stunting his development at a QB who can quickly go through his progressions and get rid off the ball before the rush gets there. I also question how well Russell pre-reads defenses and audibles out of plays when it’s pretty obvious the defense is loading up for a blitz.

                When I say that Russell finally has weapons around him, I meant that with Graham, a true #1 threat that defenses have to adjust for, I think that Wilson has a good enough receiving corps to be effective. Baldwin and Kearse can go back to their true complementary roles and thus it should be easier for them to get opened against lesser CBs. We should be a lot more dangerous with our passing game and Russell should have been able to more easily find open receivers when he scrambles but obviously, it hasn’t happened or it hasn’t happened consistently enough. We’re all frustrated with the offense’s performance thus far but is the lack of consistent good play on the offense caused primarily by Bevell’s poor play calling or, IMO, a combination of an OL that is improving but still trying to find itself, a running game that hasn’t been dominant yet, a receiving corps that is trying to maximize its effectiveness with the addition of Graham, and a newly paid QB that may not be developing further along as we’d like.

                The offense has a lot of improvement left but unlike previous years, our D has not been the rock it’s been to carry us through some of these games, resulting in our current 2 – 4 record. It’s been sort of a perfect storm of ineffectiveness/incompetence on both the offense and defense and we need to get things fixed (I have no idea how!) if we still want to make the playoffs.

                • sdcoug

                  Good stuff. Truly frustrating, isn’t it?

                  I hear the ‘maybe Russ can’t throw the slant’ argument a lot, but I remember him putting it on a dime twice to Kearse in the NFCC against GB (unfortunately Kearse chose to let both perfectly theown balls clank off his hands)

        • sdcoug

          Defensive players seem to have lost that ‘in-your-face, dancing on the field during timeouts, we’re coming at you’ edge. But really, we’ve let offensives carve us up for 3 seasons on late-game drives, so I guess I’m used to it. We always walk a razor’s edge, we’re just falling off the other side this year

          • Bryan C

            The defense was dancing all over the field. It isn’t the we’re coming at you attitude that was an issue, it was all about execution.

      • smitty1547

        EQUAL? How about most of it! Were up they give up 80 yard in 90 seconds AGAIN. They eat up most of the salary cap. I agree with first post I at least like that the Offense and Beavell were at least calling plays to win this time as they new there D was gonna choke again. U know when the other team gets the ball in the 4th qtr there gonna break it right off in are A$$. D got fat and greedy no heart. Kam is not worth 1 more cent than he allready makes! PERIOD, trade him to NO for Unger if he don’t like it!

    • bigDhawk

      I disagree about the offense. 23 points at home should be enough to win. The defense just can’t give up two long touchdown drives in the fourth quarter. This team looks like it might be tired from two 19-game seasons the past two years, especially on defense.

      • sdcoug

        And if the offense moves the chains at all in the 4th Qtr, Carolina doesn’t have enough time for two long touchdown drives…or might even need three TD drives if the O puts them away. I’m not making excuses for the D…cause they gotta get stops, but it’s all very related

        • bigDhawk

          And if the D makes stops on those Carolina drives maybe the offense can move the ball. We had the points on the board in the fourth. This loss comes down mostly to the two late Carolina TD drives allowed by the defense.

          • sdcoug

            Any defense is going to be gassed when they’re on the field the entire 4th Qtr. Yes, the D needs to get it done…and yes, the O needs to do their part. As I said, it’s all very related to each other

            • david ess

              If my math is correct the Panthers had the ball for 7:51 and the hawks 7:09. Hawks had the ball for the starting the 4th and had it with :57 left in the 3rd. D should’ve been rested with the Quarter change aswell. longest drive the panthers had in the 4th was 4:13

              • david ess

                in the 4th I mean.

                • sdcoug

                  Look, I’m not saying the D shouldn’t have closed them out. But no one can deny the Offense has barely moved the ball almost every 4th qtr. If you repeatedly give an NFL offense enough chances when they are free to be aggressive and take shots because they HAVE to score…eventually they will. As much as our D needs to be better here, our O could have kept them from being in those scenarios on almost every occassion

                  • Alex H

                    At the end of the day, CAR & CIN games are the type of games where a true #1 defense should close out regardless of the offense’s ineptness. Fatigue or not, if you’re the true #1 defense, you have to close it out. No excuses. Yes, the offense deserves some blame for being unable to convert more 1st downs, but the defense definitely deserves more. A true #1 defense does not yield two 80 yard TD drives in the 4th. A true #1 defense does not suddenly have a miscommunication in the secondary and yield a TD to an opponent’s #1 (and only) offensive target.

                    At the end of the day, this defense just isn’t operating at the 2013 and 2014 level or even the 2012 level. The 2013 team occasionally had lapses in concentration such as the Tampa Bay game, but they didn’t blow 4th quarter leads. With the exception of the Super Bowl against the Patriots, the 2014 defense didn’t blow 4th quarter leads.

                    The only defense in the last 3 years that really had trouble closing out the 4th quarter was the 2012 defense and that had to do more with the lack of pass rushing personnel (Chris Clemons was the only real consistent pass rush). That defense blew leads against DET, MIA, and the division game against ATL. Even then, that defense didn’t have a streak of blown leads like they do now. This current 2015 defense doesn’t have that glaring pass rush weakness with Frank Clark, Bennett, Avril, Irvin, & Hill. There is just a chemistry issue going on.

                  • david ess

                    I think this last game the hawks just had a miscommunication. if they were tired then that’s something we have to worry about. I doubt that’s the reason though.
                    I believe the team is just suffering from lack of communication on both sides probably. I don’t know if the scheme or philosophy has changed with Richard but if it has, Kam not being here through out training camp could’ve hurt the team.

    • RugbyLock

      Of the six 4th Qtr blown leads two have come against Aaron Rodgers and one against Tom Brady, two first ballot Hall of Famers IMO. What I can’t accept is the blown leads to Nick Foles, Andy Dalton and Cam freaking Newton… I’m wondering how much the brain drain in losing DQ is affecting this. I’d also like to point out that the losses to the Rams, Bengals and Panthers have one player in common… Kam Chancellor… His replacement was involved in the Rams winning play and he was involved in both the losing plays to the Bengals and Panthers. I think his holding out until after the second game has clearly affected his play.

  2. nichansen01

    Off topic, but can someone please tell me where Shawn Oakman is projected to go?

    • Rob Staton

      Don’t see him sticking in round one after this season. Likely to experience a Michael Johnson style fall I’d predict.

    • bigDhawk

      Hopefully not here. He is way too raw and inconsistent.

      • smitty1547

        agreed let him be a project some where else, we need players!

  3. nichansen01

    Just out of curiosity: receivers will always go in the first round. So Laquan Treadwell, who else?

    • Rob Staton

      Michael Thomas, Ohio State. Tyler Boyd, Pitt. Possibly one or two others. Can’t imagine Seahawks going down that road.

      • nichansen01

        Will Corey Coleman enter the draft this year?

        • nichansen01

          Another thing, I was frustrated to see Rawls only get 1 carry. He seems so much better than Lynch at this point.

          • AlaskaHawk

            I share your frustration about Rawls only given one play. Will he sit on the bench for two years and then be traded because he never got playing time? Come on PC.

        • Rob Staton


  4. Steele

    Same problems remain problems.

    -O-line (even with the modicum of improvement, it is not good)
    -Bevell (predictable play calling, poor play calling when it matters)
    -Russell remains indecisive
    -Pass rush
    -Secondary way off, Cary Williams a liability
    -Kris Richard

    There is an overall psychology/motivation/focus problem with the entire team, that is Pete’s job to address. How do you re-motivate a team that has endured three consecutive deep playoff runs?

    This could well be a lost season that forces change and retrenching before they elevate again.

    • Rob Staton

      I’m not sure it’s quite as serious as that. Not yet. Could be in a game or two. They’re doing a lot of good. For some reason in the fourth quarter it ends, on both sides of the ball.

    • JeffC

      Sometimes you need to step back before you can go forward. Mathematically, we’re obviously still in it, but really, this season is looking like a time to evaluate and retrench to make one more run with the same group of core talent. It may not be a bad thing.

      There’s lots of hubris on this team. Bennett set the tone with his offseason contract complaints. RW kept it going and forced the front office to set a deadline on negotiations. Kam Chancellor blew the lid off with an illogical, senseless holdout. A lost season might bring guys back to focus on football rather than money. Everyone around the country who hated us said this would happen. We assumed that JS and PC were smart enough to stay above it. But when players stop thinking about team and more about money, the magic is lost. The effort is driving more towards the almighty dollar than glory and legend.

      Now lets see if PC really is the self help guru that win forever implies that he is. This will be his greatest challenge, to take the current group and somehow make it come together and recapture the hunger that is missing. And it is missing. That is not a team that can impose its will on anyone right now.

      No one is afraid of us. They make us adjust to them rather than vice versa. The LOB is gone. They need to capture a new identity.

      No more fancy schmancy trades of high picks. Use them PC and JS, and start hitting on early round talent.

      No time to panic. Not a time to blow it up. But a time for serious study, evaluation, and contemplation.

      A lost season is not necessarily a bad thing.

      • sdcoug

        Well said Jeff. Captures so many of my thoughts

      • Rob Staton

        “A lost season is not necessarily a bad thing.”

        It depends how you view the window. If this is a 2-3 year thing before the core move beyond their peak, then a lost season is a travesty.

        In two years there might not be a Lynch or Chancellor on this roster.

        • Phil

          “in two years there might not be a Lynch or Chancellor on this roster.”

          I’m not sure that would be a bad thing. The Seahawks at their best were not a team that emphasized individual play. They have lost that band of brothers attitude and now they are suffering for it.

          The team is at a crossroads — what has worked in the past doesn’t seem to be working now. What will be the new winning formula? I don’t think we can say for certain at this point.

          • franks

            There was a team mindset, sure, but it wouldn’t have had nearly the success it did, were it not for the players. How long will this window stay open? Or is talent already on the way out, and thus less margin for error? I think it’s still open but nobody in this league stays young forever.

            A lost season, in the midst of this run, would be a TRAVESTY. I can’t understand this rebuild talk after two SBs that could’ve easily been three. You’d be throwing away an opportunity this franchise might never see again.

            • JeffC

              It’s not necessarily rebuild. It’s go back and reevaluate. After Pittsburgh “beat” us in 2005, they had a slight downturn and came back and won another as it went from Bettis’ team to Rapelisberger’s team.

              The Giants did the same with the same formula and qb. You can’t win every single game and these guys look tired and in the 4th, disinterested. They need to address the money issue as well. There are some bad apples on this team that are now about the money. They need to decide if they want to live with that distraction or jettison those players and find younger, hungrier players.

              Let us make no mistake about how the money issue has impacted this present team. And how does the “heart and soul” Kam rally the troops and get them together to win forever if he’s the one who is about the money more than the “team” concept?

              • franks

                Is it about the money, I’m not sure. Staying on top of the mountain is a different challenge than getting there but in either case you had to be Dan good and I haven’t seen us landing any Richard Shermans out chancellor’s in the recent drafts. If you want to release Bennett or chancellor, you need to replace that talent or you won’t stay on top.

                I see what you’re saying though. Something has to be done about the distractions, the question is what. Maybe navigating the cap by landing guys at contracts that later become bargains, has its costs.

  5. Brett

    When do we start looking at Chris Richard for all the communication issues that lead to yet another tight end beating us over the middle? Again, it’s blown coverages. Just asking, is coaching the issue? Do we miss Dan Quinn that much?

    • Rob Staton


      • David M2

        I think quite possibly we’re seeing a carry over from Kam missing the offseason under a new DC. Also, BWagz, the other QB of the D, being out today may have added something to communications breaking down. Does Carolina get all those firsts form Stewart with Wagz in the game?

        Who know’s, if Jacksonville’s woes continue though we maybe getting Gus back….

        • RugbyLock

          My thoughts exactly on the Kam and Richard issues. I think Kam holding out has really affected the secondary. I would really like to know what Sherm and Kam were jawing at each other after the game. IMO Kam blew his assignment but that’s just a guess.

    • Volume12

      Absolutely they miss Dan Quinn. Richard is a rookie.

  6. nichansen01

    Bruce Irvin should get a big contract after the season.
    Poor oline play will probably force them to go oline in the first.
    Rawls is a better player than lynch, or at least more effective, at this point.
    Jimmy Graham is finally fitting in, really could take off next year.
    Another game closer to a high pick.
    Lane and Richardason will return soon.

    We kind of needed a rebuilding year, after picking so low in the draft for three straight years and having all of our cuts swooped away from us.

    • Rob Staton

      “We kind of needed a rebuilding year”

      This team is in a Championship window right now. There’s not going to be a ‘rebuild’ whatever happens from here on in. It’s either a wasted year right in the midst of a window or it isn’t.

      • bigDhawk

        I’m starting to think that attempting to make three straight SB’s is too much to physically ask of the same defensive core. They look tired, and we are not half way through the season.

        I’ve joked about some of the bust drafts of SF, but our 2013 and 2014 drafts have been almost as bad as any from SF, in terms of players still on the team and making any contribution at all, much less starting. Having two drafts with essentially no selections that can compete for core-level contribution has caught up to us after playing 38 games in two years.

      • JeffC

        A lost season can do a lot of good. This team does not have the “it” factor anymore. Plugging and playing special talent with huge trades won’t fix what is ailing the core.

        • bigDhawk

          The “It” is definitely gone.

        • Rob Staton

          “A lost season can do a lot of good.”

          Don’t agree here as noted in another reply. Kam Chancellor, Marshawn Lynch and even Pete Carroll might not be here in 2-3 years time. This is the very definition of win now.

          • franks

            And not only that, but in a few years other guys won’t be able to perform at the level they are now.

          • JeffC

            By all means, seattle has to continue to try to win and figure out what is wrong, BUT…

            Unfortunately the majority of the time (looking at the history of the NFL) it just doesn’t work out where elite guys can turn it on or off at will. If this were not so, we’d have more dynasties than what we’ve had. Look at the Bills. Ultra talented, but after the first of four super bowl losses where Norwood missed his FG, they never recovered even though they were good enough to get thru the AFC. They kept their core, and for the most part the core was very good. But the first sb team was their best.

            It’s why I was so furious over “the call” in the sb. We’ve gone over it endlessly, but it was less about the technicalities of the call than winning or losing with your dynamic, your identity, your will.

            There are examples where a step back can be a good thing, and I point to the stealers post 2005 and the Eli Manning giants.

            Whatever the case, THIS 2015 seahawk team is the most talented team in the NFL, doesn’t have a huge amount of injuries, and is not getting it done.

          • mishima

            Correct me if I’m wrong, but Chancellor and Lynch haven’t been here, much, this year. Proponent of addition by subtraction, at this point.

    • bigDhawk

      And we might have a shot at drafting Paxton Lynch.

      • nichansen01

        When I said rebuild, I didnt mean this type if rebuild… Mainly on the o line and d line.

        • bigDhawk

          Always compete. That means you too, Wilson.

          • JeffC

            Totally agree with this. He’s no longer cheap and underpaid.

    • Matt

      This season is not over yet people. We were 3-3 at this time last year and won the division. We have had a 4th quarter lead in all 6 games and are 2-4. To have a shot at the playoffs we need to finish 8-2. It’s not out of the realm of possibility. I’m not going to pretend to know why these late game problems are happening. The talent and leadership is too good to rule out the Hawks quite yet.

      • David M2

        This team has enough talent they could run the table if they get their shit together.

        Injuries are hurting them right now. Loosing Simon for the rest of the year was huge. Arguably I think he was the better of the two between him and Williams. As I mentioned above, not having Wagner was huge today.

        Hopefully getting Lane and Richardson back will help out, but look at the bright side fellas….

        At least were not doing this?????%%%????

    • RugbyLock

      The real positive this game was how Graham exploded as a force. We will see if it continues Thursday. I think if Lynch doesn’t return, I believe he wont.. no proof just a hunch, then the cash that they used for him might be able to go into the Oline. I think that this year, or at least I still hope, will turn out similar to 2012 as far as the regular season goes. Jeremy Lane coming back, hopefully, will help quite a bit.

  7. Spireite Seahawk

    I think the players look fat and content. I dont see the fire, I dont see any hurt. Before you could rely on us to win the close ones now its very much the opposite. I also think teams want to beat us badly and seem to raise their game.

  8. franks

    The fourth quarter comes around and everyone shits the bed. This falls on the coaches. We are not coming prepared.

    The talent has been there on offense for years, and the performance was good enough when our secondary was top notch and the OL was decent. Now, those two things don’t happen in the same game. Stalling repeatedly was ok last year, when the defense was picking up the slack.

    There are two extremes, there’s run-run-pass and the opposite. We need to stop going to these extremes in crunch time. And the defense, get your head in the game. I wonder how much of this is an effect of kams holdout. There isn’t the cohesion.

  9. Dumbquestions

    Tight ends, tight ends, tight ends. This goes back to the Super Bowl. Don’t know who figured it out (Brady? Belichick?), but there is a hole in the LOB, and the good teams are going to keep hammering it until the defense figures it out. This game was particularly painful because Olsen is the *only* elite weapon at Newton’s disposal, and the LOB couldn’t snuff him. What’s going on here?

    I don’t want to let the offense off the hook entirely – they finally figured out how to use Graham properly, but one particular sequence was backbreaking in the 4th. Score at this point is 20-14:

    Long strike to Graham for 45
    Lynch run for 20
    1st and 10
    Lynch for 3
    Lynch for -2
    3rd and 9
    RW sacked

    Score – 23-14

    Defense holds Carolina to a three and out. Good duty. Last gasp.

    1st and 10
    Lynch for 5
    Lynch -1
    3rd and 5
    RW swing to Graham, short of first down, 3 and out

    Carolina long drive for TD (featuring Olsen)
    Score 23-20

    1st and 10
    RW to Graham for 20-yard strike.

    And the big issue is right here. 2:37 on the clock.

    Clearly the thing to do here is milk the clock and force Carolina to burn timeouts, but the call is a pass (going for the win?), the play is busted, Lynch is called for a hold on Shaq Thompson.
    1st and 20.
    RW back to pass again – scrambles, incomplete. Clock stops.
    2nd and 20.
    Weird bunch formation to the left, RW back to pass, busted screen to Lynch for no gain.
    3rd and 20.
    RW back to pass.

    This sequence gave the ball back to Carolina with far too much time, given their prior effectiveness. Newton marches down the field, and the Olsen TD follows.

    I get that the D was tired at this point. I get that they were on the field too long. But the prior series of calls was damaging.

    That said, good tight ends killed them again. Sherman, Thomas, Irvin and PC spoke of mixed signals at the end.

    Whose fault is that? Is this a Kris Richard issue?

  10. Brett

    A trend is developing. It’s the same talent, a different coordinator. Each loss shows epic communication issues. Two straight D coordinators become head coaches. Maybe the next man up on the coaching sideline still has some things to figure out. All pros don’t know where to be game after game in the biggest situation to close it out. We also used to be able to count on this team to make great second half adjustments. Yet they are getting crushed in the 4th. Are the players really the issue? You all think they don’t want it enough and are too fat and happy to make a play? How do they make a play when they don’t know where they are supposed to be? In my opinion, it starts with the coaching and communication. We lost one too many good D coordinators. Maybe Bradley will come back (although I like Quinn better, but he’s doing pretty well so far…)

    • bigDhawk

      I agree. This is a big factor. I’ll add the loss of Norton as well, even though the LBs look good so far this year.

      • JeffC

        One good thing is if we have what it looks like we are trending toward: a mediocre season, then at least our staff won’t be raided next offseason. Of course, the question is, do we have the right coaches?

        Better draft pick (please stop trading these), easier schedule in 2016, get out of the spotlight (where every team we face seems to play their super bowl game), get more grounded with the existing talent (lots of cocky, entitled players on this team), and maybe they can squeeze one more run out of this core.

        But assuming the current season plays out like it does now, and if 2016 is the same, I’d jettison the core and start over.

        • Brett

          Championship mindset does not think: well at least next year will be easier. Do the Patriots (barf) ever think that way? I want our best to beat their best. This is the most interesting test Pete has had to face because the issues are purely in house. This has nothing to do with Schneider. The talent is there, how does “always positive Pete” reel this team in?

          • JeffC

            When I see more and more posters say “we could have been 4-1 or 5-0” or “we’re still in it because Arizona isn’t running away with it” etc that is really a cover for the fact that this team doesn’t have the mindset you are wanting.

            Our best no longer beats the best. It loses to mediocrity as well. It has changed.

            • Brett

              JeffC, I agree. I am not a “we could have been” person. We are what our record says we are. And I get your point, but looking to next year is not the best option for this team, although the playoff hopes are diminishing quickly. But I think I’m seeing something a little different than you are, and correct me if I’m wrong. I’m seeing a very competitive team (carrying a lead into the 4th every single game), that is having what some may say is a mental lapse or not enough “want to” to close out. That would be the mindset you are referring to. But I see miscommunication as the culprit. Which is more maddening to me because of how easy it would (or should) be to fix. See Earls comments after the game as well as Petes. This is why I am wondering about Chris Richard. Your saying “it has changed.” I agree, I’m just trying to point to what I think “it” could be…I personally don’t think it’s “mindset.”

        • bjammin

          The guy they traded the first round pick for was one of the bright spots today and, frankly, trending upwards in his chemistry with RW. There was a drive where Russell’s mindset was, scramble, buy time, find 88. Seems like talking out of both sides of the mouth to criticize trading a draft pick for one of the best TE’s in the league after a huge game. Then again, as this is a draft-oriented blog, perhaps some are a little overly focused on the draft picks despite the chance of missing on high picks. They can be incredibly valuable, but getting a proven playmaker from a team selling him low is a smart move.

          • JeffC

            I liked the trade when it happened. But something is missing that Jimmy Graham can’t fix and when they had it, the absence of Graham didn’t affect. If Jimmy was on this team last year, the results are unchanged in the win/loss column except, perhaps, that super bowl. But this year’s team is not last year’s.

            It is entirely possible we have entered our decline phase.

    • Charlie

      If Kris Richard is in over his head, then Pete should step in and get even more hands-on with the defense. It’s his system, after all.

  11. Forrest

    I hope they win the West (entirely possible given Arizona’s recent performance), but I’m thinking wildcard is more realistic. This team isn’t bad…it’s just jumbled and unrefined. Who knows, maybe an off year would be a good thing.

    So, the offense looked good. Graham was utilized properly and I see that only getting better. Lynch looks old…I’m sorry, but that had to be said. I think he’s done after this season. Next week they need more Rawls. First 3 quarters get an A. 4th quarter gets a D.

    The defense look really good (for 3 quarters), and then faceplanted to end the game…Williams should be used less once Smith gets better, and the D-Line still needs more rotation. First 3 quarters get an A+. 4th quarter gets a D-.

    ST needs to stop being so incredibly meh…sometimes they look great, and other times they look bad…Game grade: Meh…

    This 4th quarter breakdown nonsense is inexcusable. The offense gets scared, and the defense starts playing like they have a 40 point lead. This has to be the week that they figure it out, or else it’s high draft picks in 2016…

    They can still win most of their games…this would have to be the turning point. No more mistakes. The thing that is most infuriating to me is that they are so damn close to being elite on both sides of the ball…I’m not sticking the fork in them yet…

    • Dumbquestions

      Frankly, I thought Lynch looked great. He ran with power and verve. I’m not sure it’s right to take him out for Fred Jackson on third downs. I understand the rationale (spelling Marshawn), but Lynch has steadily improved as a receiver over the past few seasons, with career highs in receptions, YAC and TDs last year. Why sub Jackson for him? Especially with the aftereffects of the high-ankle sprain and Jackson’s relative lack of speed – I love the guy, but I’m not sure he’s *better* than Lynch in those situations – in fact, I think he’s worse.

      Apart from that, the calls on second down plays (mid to short) struck me. Seattle fell into a pattern of running on those downs in the 4th quarter, when passes had been more productive earlier in the game.

    • JeffC

      Winning the west is pretty much nondifferent than a wild card at this point. With Carolina now with a 4 game lead over us and Green Bay a 4.5 game lead, we’re looking at being on the road in the playoffs no matter what.

      If this team makes it back to the super bowl this year, it will do so by shocking the world and putting itself on the stamp as THE most improbable, unpredictable run in team history.

      At this point, they need to win a game just to remember what it feels like, and the niners might just flat out beat us.

      • Forrest

        If they do beat us, then I’m calling GG for the year and looking forward to the draft…I still think they’ve got a lot of fight left though…

  12. MJ

    Occam’s Razor…the simplest explanation is usually the correct one…

    Human nature is winning this season. We are coming of 2 emotionally exhausting seasons. One ended in triumph, the other in tragedy. The key personnel are paid both in dollars and respect. The “chip is gone. There is no rational way for these guys to convince themselves they are disrespected, underpaid…because they are paid and respected.

    It may seem silly, but I see a team with little urgency, energy, or fire. The easiest explanation I can come up with; is that this team is pretty comfortable cashing in big checks and living to see another day. It’s felt like this for 6 games (for me). Thursdays game is basically the season. An ass-whooping in SF would make me turn my head. Another stuttering performance, and I will find better things to do this fall and wait until next year.

    Great work Rob.

  13. Matt

    2-4 is a big hole, but it’s not a death sentence. The next 2 games are crucial. At San Francisco and at Dallas. SF is going through the growing pains of breaking in a ton of new players and Dallas will be without Tony Romo and possibly Dez Bryant. We win these two and we get to 4-4 with an easier second half schedule where I think we can go 7-1, with our only loss maybe at Arizona.

    But this won’t happen unless this team can get back to the Super Bowl form we’ve all grown accustomed too. I have faith that the offense will find its rhythm and the defense will regain its focus. Pete is an amazing motivator and if anyone can do it it’s him. Go Hawks.

  14. JC

    back to back 80 yard TD drives is horrific after last Sunday, so I give primary blame to the defense, though I’m not sure what the blame game solves. The TD and loss also added to Russell’s winless career streak when opponents score over 24 points, 0-4 in those situations this year. #3 got his contract largely because of the Seahawks scoring defense the prior 3 seasons, making over 24 allowed a rarity.. If the Seahawks had an average scoring defense, he’d probably have not gotten nearly as much in salaries or guarantees.

  15. chris

    Rob, is it possible that our defensive scheme is just too basic? I think teams see how our defense plays them and in the second half make adjustments because they know exactly how we will react to certain plays. Its my the opinion that the nfl has figured out how to beat this defense.

    • sdcoug

      Definitely wish we’d blitz a bit more to get QBs off their spot or to keep them from stepping up in the pocket. Richard has don’t this a bit more…but still think we could be more aggressive. He blitzed late to good success, but why wait to the last drive?

      • sdcoug

        has done this*

    • Ehurd1021

      Are defensive scheme placed us in back to back Super Bowls. The defensive scheme gave way to the Seahawks in both 2013 and 2014 being mentioned along with some of the greatest defenses in the history of the NFL. We don’t have a interior pass rush right now, losing McDonald two years ago was by far a bigger loss than many (including me) expected. This was evident in the playoffs last year and it has continued to be the story this year.

    • Alex

      No. Players simply aren’t in the right position. This is a defense at least 20 years old (1995 49ers). Coaches had more than enough time to figure us out. If this defense was figured out, we would never had 3 straight #1 scoring defenses.

      • AlaskaHawk

        It does depend on speed. Both cornerbacks seem a little slower then previous years. Williams is always a step behind and Sherman is giving a huge cushion. I just don’t see the sort of tight coverage that some other teams are making.

        • nichansen01

          A huge part of our defensive sturggle has been Sherman and Williams playing poorley.

    • Rob Staton

      It’s possible. Teams are adjusting and countering pretty much everything. The almost inevitability of some of the long scoring drives are painful to watch. And yet they also have some very successful drives. The defense has to do a better job defending leads in the fourth quarter. The offense has to help them out too. Both sides execute and yesterday is a comfortable win.

      • David

        A key point, defense bad again down the stretch but they also made a few huge plays. 2 turnovers in Carolina’s territory = 6 pts. This should have been a blowout. Red zone offense is pathetic.

  16. Forrest

    Well…destroying the 49ers on Thursday night will make me feel better…and then a long week to prepare for Dallas…then bye week…plenty of time to fix some problems and get back on track…Go Hawks!!!

  17. smitty1547

    Looks like we might get a high enough pick to get a good LT!

    • nichansen01

      Shon Coleman is my favorite, i also REALLY like Joe Dahl in round two.

    • Rob Staton

      Possibly — but unless the LT is better than Okung it’s not going to upgrade the current team.

    • Seatown

      Not if Tom Cable gets to choose who they pick.

      • Volume12

        Their also looking at LTs that aren’t highly ranked. Richomd OT Nick Richter or W. Michigan’s Willie Beavers, who I love, are great examples.

        • smitty1547

          Let Okung walk and use his money on a Guard or Center and improved. Plus we got to hungry players with out rings who still want to play hard and smart for 4 QTR.

  18. Ehurd1021

    The Offense had 5-6 three and outs in this game. Really don’t understand how anyone can watch these past two games and say the defense is to blame. The offense (judging by their performance), and many fans are basically asking the defense to be perfect…. which they have shown the ability to do in the past, but to do this three years in row… very hard to do. Yes, when you look at back to back 80 yard drives today it looks horrible. Yes, the two bust in coverage last week looked horrible, but how much more is the defense going to have to do to win games, the defense has won the turnover battle in three of our four losses this year, the defense won the turnover battle in the Super Bowl but we still lose, why? Because every time we get the ball back to the offense we have a three and out or have to settle for field goals.

    I would love to see someone put a stat together that shows since the 2014 playoffs how many three and outs the offense has after a turnover? How about how many field goals since the 2014 playoffs we have after a turnover? Because I guarantee we have a sh*t load, which is the reason why we are wining the turnover battle but still losing games (which historically shouldn’t happen.) The defense basically needs to score every time they get a turnover or simply flip the field position themselves – Earl’s pick last week – in order for the turnovers to have the maximizing effect they are supposed to have in football.

    This idea that the defense is the reasoning behind these losses is crazy to me. I simply cant see it. Yea, in theory the defense shouldn’t be allowing 80 yard drives, or busting in coverage like the past two games. But saying this and then putting it in its proper context of the game, including the offenses performance tells a different story. Especially when looking at Russell’s performances in these games. The offense has left the defense out to dry since the 2014 playoffs and no one is saying it.

    • bigDhawk

      Well, by the fourth quarter we had scored 23 points on offense and had a nine point lead. Then the defense gives up two 80 yard TD drives. Yeah, the offense had some 3 and outs, but if the defense gets their own 3 and outs on those TD drives then maybe the offense has more chances to move the ball. To me the offense had already done their job and the long fourth quarter TD drives given up by the defense were a bigger failing than the stalled fourth quarter offense.

    • Steele

      The defense has been soft in every game this season. At best, it is merely average and bend not break, but it has broken when it has mattered. The secondary, led by Cary Williams, has given up key plays consistently. Richard’s scheme is off, and we have seen the veterans—even ET, Sherman, Kam–whiff on plays, miscommunicate, space incorrectly. The pass rush has been deficient.

      Teams easily march down the field on this defense, in ways unimaginable in previous seasons.

      • franks

        Well yeah, but there’s some explanation for the defense. We’ve relied on the secondary since Pete got here and Kam, the leader of our secondary missed the off-season, Williams is new to our system and Simon is out, lane is out, Burley is out, Kris Richard has top focus on the entire defense which could be a double whammy. And then Wagner fire down, that was huge.

        The offense, on the other hand, has been taking the same approach as far back as I can remember and it only worked before because the defense was insanely good.

        Spot on Ehurd about the offense really if ever turning a t.o. into seven.

        • franks

          “Wagner goes down” “rarely if ever “

  19. Ehurd1021

    Rhythm passing is a thing of beauty. I wish the offense would watch some tape on New England offense and attempt the same thing.

  20. Kelly Orr

    To me there are a number of issues impacting this team in the 4th quarter. First off is the Offensive Line. I have thought the offensive line has been horrible the past three years. The past few years every time Seattle drops back to throw a pass I cringe and look for the free rusher. This year though it has really manifested with the neglect to upgrade via the draft or free agency. It has gotten to the point that Russell does not have any trust in his blocking. There were two or three plays today where he was bailing early where I really didn’t think he had to and could have bailed out to the side to buy more time. The change at Center was kind of puzzling to me to be honest. I know last week Nowak had some bad snaps but I didn’t think his play was terrible or any worse than Lewis was today. To me the #1 problem on that line is Britt and I hate to say it because I had a lot of hope for him. To me Sweezy has always been suspect in pass blocking but Britt is making him look like an All Pro. Every time Britt is beat he is beat with hand moves. The defender will swat his hands away and rip or swim by him right to the quarterback. Gilliam does seem to be getting more consistent and is improving slowly in my opinion. To me the team needs to decide between Bailey, Glowinski, and possibly Nowak at LG and I think replacing Britt in there could possibly be a big boost to this team they have to try something now. The only thing I would like to see more of is more hurry up. The team seems to get into a way better rhythm when running a 2 min drill type offense earlier in games. If they are going to consistently go 3 and out in the 4th quarter just as well as get on with it sooner rather than later right?
    The defense I think will be fine for the most part. One thing that has been really bothering me though is missed tackles and yards after contact for RBs. Jeremy Hill did it late against the Bengals and Stewart did it again this week. The Panthers to my eye were actually very effective running the ball in the second half. Although I thought it was odd on a lot of early downs seeing Michael Bennett inside with either Rubin or Mebane instead of having both Mebane and Rubin inside. Just seemed like every time I seen Carolina moving the football with the running game Michael Bennett was getting moved off the line of scrimmage playing inside. As far as Pass defense goes this pass rush to me is very good but they always seem to barely miss out on getting a sack. I don’t honestly think Cary isn’t playing to horribly. He gets beat from time to time but so did Maxwell and Browner(so many penalties). The one play he really gave up badly he got picked off on a crossing route and that is going to happen from time to time so it didn’t really bother me much. What exactly was wrong with Simon’s toe? Will Pete and Jon regret IR’ing him? Perhaps when Lane is able to come back he can play that #2 corner spot if Cary still isn’t performing well technique wise. The Linebackers in this defense for whatever reason I cannot understand why they do not carry Receivers across or down the field in their zones just to make it appear to the QB that that particular person is covered. So many times I seen receivers settling in zones catching the ball with 4 defenders withing 3-5 yards. If someone puts a body on him and knows exactly where their help is I don’t see how it could hurt. In the past we have seen many many long drives like this. I think teams are starting to figure out this defensive scheme to a point so I think Pete and Kris need to go to the drawing board to add a couple different coverages and wrinkles to our defense. Not sure if they will since they predominantly do nothing but cover 3 with some man to man sprinkled in. I honestly do like that Richard blitzes more often than any coordinator in the past. If the LBs are going to constantly give up 7-13 yard gains why not blitz a little bit to force and errant throw or hope it gets home and you get a sack.
    I do honestly believe that this team is still close to finding itself. Winning cures everything right? I think they need to win a close game in the 4th quarter like this one to get this monkey off their back. I do not think Bevell needs to be fired or Cable. Bevell was a bit more creative today with the flea flicker. The offensive line is the root of the problem for this offense it really is but given what Cable has had to work with I can’t really blame him either. You would have to Blame Pete and John for not finding suitable lineman for him to work with. They seem to look at nothing but SPARQ for lineman instead of experience or consistency so maybe the should put a person like Glowinski in there who has played Guard before in college if I am not mistaken but also a good SPARQ guy. On a positive note Jimmy seemed much better at the scramble drill today. He finally learned that he has to continue playing in order to be an option on broken plays. Honestly that is what I think some of the problems are with a few other subtle things but I am tired of typing so I will leave it at that. I am in no way thinking this team is done at all they can get this turned around.

  21. CC

    Ugh another winnable game lost.

    So here is my thoughts – in college, Pete got new players ever year and players rotated out after 3-4 years. This team has played extra games the last 3 years – are they mentally tired? I know they have all the experts, but is it possible that the players cannot sustain this type of mentality game after game year after year and that they are burned out? There are no more chips on their shoulders, being overlooked, people not giving them credit – most of the defense has received big contracts, been named to pro bowls and all pros, having kids – maybe just maybe they have lost their edge and a bit of complacency has set in.

    This looks like a 9 or 10 win team at best, but we could also end up as a 5-6 win team too.

    Ravens 2010 12-4
    2011 13-5
    2012 14-6 Champs
    2013 8-8
    2014 10-6

    2011 14-4
    2012 13-4-1
    2013 14-5
    2014 8-8

    Same thing for NYG and NO – 3 years of 10+ wins win a SB (except for SF) and bottoming out.

    I don’t know why we’re so surprised this is happening. We have lost a lot of good core players, good key coaches and other teams have caught up and know what we are going to do.

    • bigDhawk

      To your point about new players, let’s look at our 2013 and 2014 drafts:

      [Percy Harvin]
      Christine Michael
      Jordan Hill
      Chris Harper
      Jesse Williams
      Tharold Simon
      Luke Willson
      Spencer Ware
      Ryan Seymour
      Ty Powell
      Jared Smith
      Michael Bowie

      Paul Richardson
      Justin Britt
      Cassius Marsh
      Kevin Norwood
      Kevin Pierre-Louis
      Jimmy Staten
      Garrett Scott
      Eric Pinkins
      Kiero Small

      These two drafts produced seven players that are currently on the 53, and of those seven only two are starters – marginal starters at that. None can be considered core players that are locks to get big contract extensions and none will ever sniff Pro Bowl or All Pro status. Compared to the historic first three drafts of the PC/JS era, 2013 and 2014 can now officially be considered busts.

      We simply can not have this disparate a draft history and expect to maintain the depth necessary to keep a championship widow open. Part of the reason our “IT” factor seems to be gone this year may be the result of having no competition from these two drafts pushing our 2010-2012 core to for starting positions. We have no depth right now at most position groups, and our starters are fat, happy, and a little wore out.

      • CC

        I agree with you on the draft and worn out. This could be a long season. Signing Lem back – let’s hope he can bring some stability to the line. And if he does, what does that say about the whole plan of cutting him, starting Nowak and then Lewis?

  22. roland

    have we lost the hunger, or are we secretly losing the season on perpous to retool. lack of desire to finish, no trust in the offense to help finish games, and vice versa, mental errors in key moments on defense? is there an issue going on in the lockeroom that we dont know about?someone not getting paid enough on defense and the defense is messing up on perpous? who knows? we got jimmy going finally. Its gut check time.

    • nichansen01

      You could tell tampa and tennesse were losing games on purpose last year in order to both be able to get mariota and winston. Are we doing this as some sort of grand master plan?

      • Rob Staton

        Of course they aren’t losing on purpose.

  23. neil

    don’t know how many here have notced it but Wilson is playing seemingly with out any emotion this year. When Thomas intercepted Newton in the first period, everyone was jumping and high fiveing, when the camer flashed to the sideline, Wilson appeared very blase. I have noticed this in other games this year. Could it be he is unhappy about not surpassing Rodger’s salery?
    It is obvious the defensive signal calling cost us this game, again. How you let Olson run free with the game on the line, is unbelieveable.!!

  24. Forrest

    Like I said in a earlier thread: Winning the West is all I really care about right now…anything after that is great…

    • CharlietheUnicorn

      The Cardinals stubbed their toe this week. They now are only 2 games ahead of the rest of the NFCW. Honestly, I think today was great for the RAMS of all teams in the NFCW. They are 2-0 in NFCW already, just need to win some “other” games.

      Seattle has to win Thursday or it is fork time. If they go 0-2 in NFCW, they are in big trouble. The resulting record of 2-5 would make it very unlikely they will ultimately get to 10-6 or better, which is what I think a team needs to get a WC. Now with the tie breaker loss to the Panthers, it makes it even tougher.

      • Steele

        The 49ers will not be easy. They are improving. They will be fired up to avenge last season.

        If they manage to replicate the plays that every team this season has used against them successfully, the Niners will win it.

        • JeffC

          Absolutely. We need to go 1-0 each week and forget about playoffs. Go 1-0 each week and stop assuming teams will be pushovers.

    • nichansen01

      At this point, beating the 49ers is all i care about.

  25. Adog

    It’s easy to be critical of chancellor, but the last two games he has been abused. It seems from the looks on Sherman and earl’s face that kam blew that call on the game winning td. Then last week I saw chancellor gave a piss poor effort on two identical td’s to the te where it was the same deal as this week…a te splitting a zone and players with no clue who had who. It might be time put those calls with someone other than chancellor. His head is not in the game.

    • CharlietheUnicorn

      post game, it was mentioned that 1 guy thought cover 2 and other cover 3…… Sherman and ET.

  26. Ed

    While I think a lot of heads should roll after the season (Bevell/Richard) and a lot of players should be gone after this year for one reason or another (Okung/Sweezy/Chancellor/Kearse/Williams), the Hawks are only 2 games out with AZ coming here first. They still control their own destiny.

    -Get some ingenuity from both coordinators. Get some better 3rd down calls on both sides (too many times they didn’t get, or gave up big 3rd down conversions.

    As for draft:

    1st OT (Okung is done)
    2nd DT (need a push)

    Time to stop being cute in the 1st 2 rounds. JS is great in finding some 4th/5th rd steals, but he has been subpar in 1st and 2nd.

    • nichansen01

      I say o line 1 AND 2, good o-line talent is harder to find in the draft than good d-line talent. We defintely need to go d-line with one of our third round picks.

  27. mrpeapants

    SEATTLE, we have a problem. just a couple things before I go kick the neighbors cat.
    1. nice to see JG get some balls deeper then 5 yards today.
    2. its a little disturbing to me that I see sherm after the game with a big ol smile on his face, yucking it up with the other team. its one thing that we lost, but its another that it was sherms blown coverage that gave up the last td. he should be pissed, but I guess that since he got his, winning just isn’t that important to him. still looks hesitant.
    4. I think its time we started looking at the scheme as a problem. I know weve been extremely productive with it. even dominating. BUT the pattern is clear: work the seam and hit the dump offs. you show any coach the same look for years and eventually they figure it out. maybe its time to make some adjustments.
    5. its hard to run a play action offense without a running game. this is the saddest to me. the one thing were supposed to be great at, and we cant get it going. I blame everyone involved, cable, bevel, the players, the draft decisions. its our bread and butter and were goin hungry.
    tough loss again today but all is not lost yet! we can still turn it around! attitude is everything!
    go hawks

    • JamesP

      I mentioned this last week. Sherman is so flat this year. No trash talking, no emotional sideline rants, no fire. Every game this season he’s been patting guys on the back when they get a completion against him. Not a chance in a million that the 2013-14 Crabteee baiting Sherman would be doing that.

      • Steele

        Yes. Sherman has lost his swagger completely. It has been gone since last Thanksgiving, in the wake of the turkey game, which I view as one of the last great Seahawks performances. Then Pete asked him to tone it down, and he did. Fatherhood has mellowed him too. But I did not expect him to diminish on the field. Unfortunately he has.

        • Rob Staton

          Has he really? Or is this just an overreaction to another defeat and the fact the miscommunication involved Sherman and Thomas?

          It’s not like he’s been getting beat every week. Statistically I believe he’s played quite well.

          • JamesP

            I’m not saying he’s playing particularly poorly Rob, but his body language has changed totally. I’m not even saying he’s the worst offender, just that as such a previously charismatic focal point of the team it’s worrying to see him so subdued. And it’s not a reaction to this game, like I said I was saying it last week and have noticed it all season. Something is off with him.

            • Rob Staton

              I understand the point — I just question whether he’s not playing any worse than normal but because he isn’t shouting his mouth off people assume he is. I’ve not thought once this season that Sherman has regressed.

              • nichansen01

                Remember Shermans’s holding call negated Ahtyba Rubin’s sack in the first quarter, keeping the drive alive that they got their first TD on. Then Sherman aslo gave up a few more catches for first down. PFF grades him out as average this year. I personally veiw the last great seahawk preformance as the divisional round vs. Carolina, with chancellors pick six, Wilsons three TD passes, Shermans Int. etc…

              • Steele

                Rob, it isn’t just Sherman not shooting off his mouth. He has been beaten on plays in every game this season, some of them big plays. He isn’t playing horribly, but the difference is noticeable. Offenses are not afraid of him, he hasn’t completely shut down his opponents.
                Certainly changes with Richard’s schemes and communication problems are also to blame. Having a weak link like Cary Wiliams and the lack of a reliable nickel would also cause a ripple effect.

                • Rob Staton

                  “He has been beaten on plays in every game this season, some of them big plays”

                  Can you give me examples?

            • neil

              And you don’t see Wilson as being very subduded on the sudewlines this year?

    • nolyon

      My thoughts on your post:

      1. Yess!!! JG reacting in scramble plays will be HUGE moving forward

      2. TOTALLY disagree. Wouldn’t you be more concerned if Sherman just shut down after the game? Like he just quit talking to anyone and everyone? Like he quit believing in himself? I would be

      3. Agree. I think the O-Line being awful is in his head now.

      4. I’ve been on the Bevell hate train, but I thought the game plan was pretty good today.

      6. The running game has been off. People have said Marshawn isn’t himself anymore, but I saw him carrying tacklers still? Seems like O-line not getting huge push.

      • nichansen01

        The problem is that its good until it matters, with four minutes left in the game we either had to 1. Stop carolina here, 2. Give up a td but then have a nice set of first down and let wilson take a knee 3. Give up a td, go six and out and then make a stop on the last panthers drive (or at least hold em to a field goal)

        We couldn’t do any of the 3.

      • mrpeapants

        on #2 no I wouldn’t but I would like to see some disappointment or a look a disbelief or something. not ‘oh well, hey man nice game hows your kids.’. passion that’s what I want

  28. DC

    Why the 4th quarter defensive collapses?

    My best guess is that Bennett & Avril are taking too many early snaps & running out of gas come crunch time. When our best pass rushers stop getting pressures you see these opposing QBs thrive late in the game time & again. In 2013 we had that great rotation on the D line and it reached max strength in the Super Bowl. I suggest rotating more heavily early in the game and see if we can keep our star vets fresher for the 4th.

    On offense our glaring weakness remains the line. Aside from not pass protecting or run blocking well, they are missing that “physical” element that grinds down opposing defenses by the 4th quarter. I saw we started Patrick Lewis at Center today. I’ve got to believe that there is a better option than Britt some where. If he’s not on this roster then find him! If we are going to make the playoffs, which I still believe we will, this group MUST improve. They are maddeningly bad.

    • David

      That was my thought exactly watching this and the Bengal’s game. Throughout the game it seems that we are dominant against the rush which sets up our pass rush nicely on passing downs. Fast forward to the 4th quarter with the opposing team driving in obvious passing situations, there is absolutely no pressure on the QB to be found which allows our secondary to be completely picked apart. Aside from Irvin’s stunt there was no pressure on Cam on that last drive even when we brought 6! Compound that with the fact that I was seeing Mebane and Rubin taking snaps when the Panthers were still down just blows my mind. Where’s Clark? Where’s Marsh? It looked like David King was taking snaps before Clark. Where’s the Nascar package when the Panther’s are clearly only going to pass in that last drive?

      • David

        To me it looks like that the diffference in the 4th quarter is that our OL suddenly becomes horribly bad (even worse than it is during the first 3 qtrs), our running game all of the sudden goes nowhere and we take sacks on most 3rd downs, while the opposing offense’s OL suddenly becomes the best OL to play the game in those last drives.

  29. Steele

    I have been waiting since the Super Bowl for this team to show the world that it has been that epic loss behind them. I have been waiting to see the dominant version of the Seahawks back in action, smashing apart the popular narrative that the Patriots broke them.

    Instead, this team is a mess.

    To make things worse, the Patriots keep rolling like a relentless machine. Watching them beat the Colts reminded me of how a championship team operates. Even when they got behind and challenged, they responded.

    The Seahawks this season are not equipped for this.

    The SB rematch scenario looks like a distant fantasy now. They struggle to win games against lesser teams.

    • Rob Staton

      It’s tempting to compare to the Patriots — but they are a genuine, proven dynasty. If anything watching the first six games this season has made me realize how much respect Brady and Belichick deserve. Relentless winning year after year is tough. They never have a year off.

      The Seahawks are a very different outfit, just like the rest of the NFL.

      • Wall UP

        Hawks aren’t that far off. Just a few personal decisions at DL, OL, DB and Coaching philosophy. There is just a fine line between those that consistently make the best choices. They are close. And there still young.

        • AlaskaHawk

          Every year during draft I ask that the Seahawks get some good offensive linemen. Seahawks depended on the defense and Lynch for two (almost) championships. But all the first round trade always and poor draft picks are coming home to roost now. This spring I will once again pray that they get the offensive line figured out. The left side will need a complete rebuilding. Maybe a few other linemen too. Somehow they have to stop the slippage on the off season. Offense line always starts horribly and improved over the season.

          The reason the Patriots and Green Bay are always competitive is they don’t have that slippage in the offensive line.

          • Rob Staton

            They’ve spent two first rounders, a second rounder and a third rounder on the O-line. You can’t say they’ve ignored it.

            It’s too easy to say ‘sort it out’ in the draft. That’s what they’ve tried to do already.

            As for the Pats and Packers, here we go again. People assume they have great lines. Pats don’t. Packers have good pass pro this year. It’s only recent and they won a Bowl with a horrendous line. Feels like we trudge over these same points every year.

            • Wall UP

              You’re right. The type of lineman is the issue. Run ZBlkg vs PPro has been the downfall of their selections. The problems in the offense comes from the later.

              The silver lining of this struggle is that Shon Coleman might be theirs at Rd 1. I was hoping for Adolphus @ 1, Tuerk @ 2, Mills @ 3 and Jack Allen 4 or 5. You’ll solve the D-line rotation and provide PPro and ZBlkg the OL is lacking. They’ll also have their #2DB.

              • smitty1547

                He will be available and they will trade down to pick some dude we have never heard of with great upside

            • Steele

              Somehow the Patriots get great production out of their players. It is like a machine.

              They also picked good prospects ready to contribute. Shaq Mason, Tre Jackson are names I would love to have seen the Hawks take. The Pats o-line is young and they have shifted guys around but it has worked. Losing Nate Solder doesn’t even seem to be a huge problem.

            • AlaskaHawk

              Rob-they have traded away their first round picks or traded back for three years. Net first round picks is zero. Second round picks CMike who never played and got traded, P Rich who has already suffered a serious injury, and Britt. You can’t miss on 5 of your top 6 picks and not have consequences.

              • Rob Staton

                But that’s not the argument I’m making. I appreciate they’ve missed on early picks — I’ve made those points myself. But the team has invested a lot in the O-line. Two first rounders, a second rounder and a third rounder. Anyone who thinks simply ploughing draft stock into the O-line will solve the problem isn’t accurate. The Seahawks need a savvy veteran presence on this line. A couple of grizzled vets.

                • Wall UP

                  Dallas has a young and talented group that has been successful for just two years now. Collins is now part of that group. Obviously, 1st Rd selections makes it easy for this to be realized.

                  Key ingredient for success with the OL group is consistency and balanced techniques in R-Blkg & P-Pro. Dallas excels in both as they should, being 1st founders.

                  Seattle’s group are working towards consistency, and it will take time. The struggle to achieve a balance between R-Blkg & P-Pro has a lot to do with player selection and scheme emphasis with the Z-Blkg scheme.

                  Perhaps in time Britt will learn to move his feet and shadow the DT in front of him. It would be nice if Britt had Glowinski’s feet and Glowinski had Britt’s strength, you’d have a have a LG/RG combo for a long time. I still think Glow will be their RG next year if Sweezy moves on.

                  Future selections for OL should predicate on a balance of both, P-Pro & R-Blkg, (ie, Shon Coleman, Tuerk at OT; Conklin & Drango types at OG).

                  They’re still one of the best running the ball. Cable has a great system. Just a little more emphasis in P-Pro in their next selections, then they could be unstoppable. I’m confident Cable is cognizant what needs to be done. He’s working with what he’s received.
                  There are pieces that can be added via the draft along with keeping a 26-27yr old Okung for a 3yr extension, 1yr guaranteed. It looks like Coleman might be there for the taking to play RT if and when Okung moves on in a few years.

                  • Rob Staton

                    Here’s the reality of the situation:

                    Tyron Smith — 9th overall pick
                    Zack Martin — 16th overall pick
                    Travis Frederick — 31st overall pick

                    The earliest pick Seattle has had since their first draft under Carroll and Schneider (where they took a left tackle with the 6th overall pick) was #12 (eventually traded down to #15) where they took Bruce Irvin. If they were to take an O-lineman in the first round in 2012, that would’ve meant spending three first round picks in three years on O-liners. It was unlikely to happen.

                    Dallas has benefitted from being able to pick early and find value. Smith was expected to go in the top ten, they get him at nine. Seattle took a guy worthy of a top ten pick in Okung and such as it is, Smith has shown to be the better player. If they lose to the Rams in the final game of the 2010 season they pick #8 overall and maybe bookend Okung with Smith? Who knows. They won the game, they had Beastquake and took James Carpenter at #25 instead.

                    Zack Martin was a rare commodity — a left tackle at Notre Dame who was legitimately expected to go in the middle of round one as a projected guard. It’s not often you come across a player as technically gifted as Martin playing O-line. Dallas lucked out there — even if Ryan Shazier was apparently their preferred target that year.

                    Travis Frederick is a pretty good center. Not exceptional.

                    They’ve filled out the line with savvy vets and of course have landed a prize asset in Collins because of the bizarre situation before the draft. Dallas deserve credit for putting together a good line. They’ve also been fortunate to pick in slots each year where value matches talent and position.

                    Let’s also not forget that Dallas’ much vaunted O-line hasn’t prevented Tony Romo from picking up a very serious injury that has possibly ended any chance they have of making the post season.

                    The Seahawks have put just as much effort into their O-line. Okung in the top ten, Carpenter in round one, Justin Britt in round two, John Moffitt in round three. If anything they FORCED things a little more on the O-line than Dallas. The Cowboys picked out value, Seattle went after their line and reached on more than one occasion. People are now calling for the same tactic — just draft O-liners. That is not the wise thing to do. If the value is there — great. Forcing more stock into the O-line on the wrong guys? Recipe for continued disaster.

                    The best thing to do IMO is to acquire a veteran left guard and center (not finding one of them in round one) and look into retaining Okung and Sweezy. Then you have a veteran O-line and the opportunity to consider drafting a new right tackle in round one. That to me is a sound policy. Inserting three more rookies into the O-line next year sounds like a great way to give up another 60-70 sacks in 2016.

  30. Rad man

    last two drives before Panthers took the lead, Seahawks managed 20 yards. 3 plays 8 yards, punt, 4 plays 12 yards, punt.

    six straight punts to end the CIncy game. Same story both times. O can’t keep the ball, D gets gassed. No depth on D, O can’t protect them. O line gets owned when it matters most.

  31. MJ

    Couple thoughts, the day after…

    1. The offense is completely broken. I think the OL is the direct blame but I do sincerely think Bevell is #2. There is no flow to the offense. It is overly mechanical. It’s like watching a kid learn to hit a baseball the first time. The OL is hot garbage, but it is incumbent upon Bevell to make do with the pieces he has. I am truly hoping he is gone after this year and we find a much more creative OC, who can win games, not just lose them.

    2. I really don’t care that the Defense played lights out for 3 Quarters. Where do we put our money? On defense. They are paid to make plays and win games. The 4th quarter meltdowns, while the fault of the team as a whole, belongs mostly to the D (IMO).

    3. The LOB, as we once knew it, is no more. They are not bad, but they are not feared, at all. See: 4th Quarter.

    4. Kris Richard needs to be on the hot seat. Same pieces on defense, same scheme with much worse results. What has changed? Richard. There are far, far too many breakdowns for a back 7 who has played together for 3+ years. My theory is that in the 4th quarter, I think we are getting to cute with defensive playcalls. The beauty of Seattle’s D in the past, was it’s simplicity. Simplicity means fewer breakdowns. IMO, the breakdowns are directly tied with trying to do too much instead of letting our talent beat theirs.

    5. Carroll and RW are completely dejected. Their post game conferences are very telling. Both look completely bewildered. It’s hard not to think that they haven’t considered this a lost season. Complete speculation on my part, but I haven’t seen those 2 look like that, ever.

    6. Thursday vs SF is the season. Unless this team comes out with their hair on fire and gives SF a beating, I think I’m comfortable saying that this is a lost season. At this point, eeking out a W isn’t enough. They need to be the Seahawks of old and impose their will. Doesn’t mean they have to win by 20 but I’d like to see 4 quarters of manhandling.

    Rough season. As a longtime Seahawk fan, I must say this is the least fun I’ve had, well ever (to be honest). The team doesn’t play with fire or energy. I remember the palpable feeling of watching them play. It leaped off the screen. Right now, there are just a struggling football team that seems to lack heart.

    • Wall UP

      It’s always the case to place blame on the OC or DC for the shortcomings, the player or lack of play by them ultimately brings about the results.

      The D is not playing as one. They’re playing tentatively not wanting to make mistakes in the back in. Earl even stated he wasn’t prepared. Another thing I noticed is how a “new” member can alter the LOB. That is the weak link. Everyone can see it and are exploiting it. You’re only as good as you’re weak link’.

    • nichansen01

      I actually thought the whole team played with a lot of fight and tried really really hard, until the end of the third quarter came around. Then it seemed everyone but Bruce Irvin and Jimmy Graham didnt have any idea of what was going on.

      • Wall UP

        The 3rd & 4th qtrs is when they went after the RCB. The comment or even noticed. When working in that situation you tend peep that way and pay less attention to your responsibilities. That’s why Sherm got called for holding because he was peeping over his shoulder and not concentrating on his man.

        • Wall UP


          • Wall UP


  32. nichansen01

    After this game I really hope we sign Bruce Irvin this offseason, i think this can be accomplished in lynch and his mega contract retire.

    • Wall UP

      They may have to keep Lynch one more year. They also need Bane back.

    • Volume12

      For all the flash plays Bruce has, I watched him take numerous snaps off. Sacks aren’t everything.

  33. M

    This is like deja vu all over again…the Seahawks own version of Ground Hog Day.

    Win the turnover battle? Check. Outplay the opponent for 3 quarters? Check. Have a lead going into the 4th quarter? Check. End up with a L? Check.

    We could so easily be talking about the 6-0 Seahawks and their ongoing dynasty (it’s always interesting how fickle the narrative is). We could also be talking about the 1-5 Seahawks. That’s how crazy this season is thus far. 2-4 speaks to a bad team. However, I would suggest that this team has the potential to be very good, even SB good but it has to put it together consistently for the whole game.

    Defensively, Kris Richard has to bear the burden (it comes with the territory) of 4 4th quarter collapses especially the miscommunication on the winning play to Olsen. How exactly does their #1 target get that open?

    In the SB, the Seahawks lost the lead as well but let’s not forget how hobbled the defense was–Sherman, Thomas and Chancellor all played with significant injuries, Mebane out, Lane out early and Avril out late. This year, they’ve been relatively healthy.

    It just seems like the defense is in a prevent mode or playing not to lose and there just doesn’t seem to be a lot of pressure on the QB in the 4th quarter. Philosophically, the Seahawks don’t like to blitz but it seems to me they may need to opt for a more aggressive defensive scheme in the 4th.

    Offensively, this is what it looks like when the scheme actually features Graham. He won’t get these kind of numbers every game but there’s no doubt that he’s a difference maker. given the opportunity. Looks like Bevell got the message loud and clear that things needed to change. And they did. Graham being featured, Matthews and Lockett playing more and Kearse and Baldwin had about 4 targets between them. Interesting. You have to like the creativity the offense showed–another dimension defenses will have to plan for. Now they need to find the right balance, consistency and identity.

    Bottom line, the Seahawks played their way into this mess and that means that they can play their way out. How they respond to their own self-inflicted adversity will be the difference between January draft or playoff talk.

  34. lil'stink

    Kris Richard seems to be not ready yet, Darrell Bevell is mediocre on a good day, and Pete Carroll still thinks it’s 2013. Even when we were struggling last year I never really gave up hope. Part of me is afraid that we will just roll over in SF this Thursday, something that never would have crossed my mind last year.

    We spend $20 million on a QB yet our passing scheme is simple, predictable, and our OC can’t get a first down when the game is on the line. Watching how quick elite QB’s can get rid of the ball and how important it is to their success makes me wonder about Russell. Is this all there is to Wilson’s game, or is it just that he needs more time to develop or different coaches? A quick pass that hits a receiver in stride seems to be a rare thing in this offense.

    Other teams have figured out how to attack our defense, and it can no longer be counted on to hold a lead. Our once vaunted passing defense, Pete’s pride and joy, falls apart time and time again in the fourth quarter. When’s the last time a team has blown more 4th quarter leads in the NFL as we have during the first 6 weeks?

    Every week I feel like Charlie Brown getting the ball yanked out from me at the last second. I hope to hear of a ‘players only’ meeting this week.

  35. Volume12

    Again, what to say. How to explain a team that dominates the 1st 3 quarters, and plays so poorly in the 4th.

    This is why starting hot does NOT matter. It’s all about how you finish. Yes, they miss Dan Quinn to an extent, but what where they going to do, deny the guy his dream and everything he’s worked for?

    The offense and defense are both to blame. This is the best defense in the NFL the past 3 years, and the 4th quarter meltdowns are astonishing.

    We’ll get it together and win a nice chunk of games, but by then it could be meaningless.

    Something I’ve noticed in the defensive side, but this team seems to be missing that athletic defensive chess-piece. A Jamie Collins, Deonne Bucannon, Tyran Mathieu. Someone like that. A guy like Eric Striker, Jaylon Smith, maybe even a Deon Bush.

    • Rob Staton

      Eric Striker to replace Bruce Irvin? I’m game.

      • Volume12

        Yeah, something like that.

  36. Volume12

    Still not scoring in the red zone and not limiting teams to FGs in theirs. That to me is one of the biggest reasons why we’ree not holding leads. For whatever reason, they seemed more creative or could punch it in more consistently when we had MRob. Surely he wouldn’t make that big of a difference, would he?

    • Tien

      I agree that not scoring TDs in the red zone and not limiting teams to FGs or even shutting them out have hurt us this year but until our offense gets into a rhythm where they can consistently get first downs, we’re going to have issues holding leads the rest of the season. Yesterday (like in the Cincinnati game and others), if the offense could have gotten just a couple of first downs at the end of the 4th quarter, we wouldn’t have had to turn the ball back to the Panthers and have to defend. I really believe that our offense still hasn’t figured out its identity for this season yet and that’s why we’ll get stretches of good plays/drives and then also long stretches of futility and threes and outs. And that’s why when the pressure is on at the end of the game and we need to convert that first down, we choke and don’t.

    • DC

      MRob & Zach Miller combined might splain’ it.

      Not that these guys were ever all healthy at the same time, but in the “PUNCH” department;

      MRob was better than our present FBs.
      Miller was better than our present TEs.
      Carp had more than Britt at LG.
      Unger had more than our Present Cs.
      The Big Russian had more than Gilliam RT.

      Add it all up and there’s got to be an effect.

      • RugbyLock

        Agreed… they’re asking Cable to make chicken salad out of chicken poop… of course he has has some input which piece of poo they pick…

  37. Rik

    I don’t think that it’s complicated. The PC plan depends on dominant run blockers that punish defensive linemen and linebackers. You may not get too many yards in the 1st quarter, but the punishment builds, and Lynch rips off consistent runs for 5+ yards (and some big ones) in the 3rd and 4th. Respect for the run game means that Russ can hold the ball until he sees someone wide open.

    That’s not happening this year, because our OL cannot run or pass block. Lynch gets hit by defensive linemen in the backfield, and linebackers are waiting in the gaps. Neither the DL nor the LB get worn down because our offensive line plays like wet toilet paper and elmer’s glue.

    Those 4th quarter runs on 1st and 2nd down used to be golden because of the cumulative effect of a nasty OL. There is no cumulative effect from a weak line.

    The other question is: why the complete failure by the defense in the 4th quarter? Damned if I know.

    • Volume12

      Actually going into yesterday Seattle was the no. 1 ranked rushing team in the league. And yes, RW accounts for some of that yardage, but that’s the added bonus of having a mobile QB.

      • AlaskaHawk

        Of course Rawls was the major contributor to being #1 but he is back on the bench again. It would have been great to have a fresh young running back in the 4 th quarter. Where ever could Bevell find an energetic running back?

        • Rik

          Right? How often does a RB get 169 yards in a game then get exactly 1 carry in the next game? Mind boggling.

  38. neil

    Time to face it the more determined team won. The last play screwup was big but Newton had 4 80+ drives for scores. I think the Panthers have now become the team with the most physicality in the nfc .It would not surprise me to see them beat out GreenBay for the nfe championship.

  39. Ed

    M, Lil’ and Volume (last comment),

    All spot on. The coordinators are lacking creativity and adjustments, the coach is lacking accountability (among the players) and the players are lacking fire. Still only 2 games out of the division and 2 games against AZ still, it’s not too late to get the fire going. The Hawks can no longer play so vanilla in O or D, the league has caught up. As Lil Stink said, it’s not 2013 PC, time to adjust. To do that:

    -Get the ball out of Wilson hand quickly (dink and dunk then go deep)
    -Be unpredictable (run, run pass) or (pass run run) doesn’t work. Mix it up
    -Quit making the no TO the biggest offensive creed, it should be TD

    -Rest Avril and Bennett more, get back to rotation even at a 2nd/3rd qtr drop in productivity
    -Bench Williams
    -Be more creative on blitz and blitz more
    -Mix up the scheme

    • sdcoug

      Everything I have been trying to communicate; you just nailed it. Vanilla works with dominating units, which we do not have. Time to take the kid gloves off and go after teams, both offensively and defensively. If we get burned on occasion, so be it

    • Volume12

      Who’s going to start for Cary Williams? He hasn’t been bad IMO. Sure AJ Green torched him, but AJ’s going to make plays regardless.

      Simon, Lane, Burley, and Tye Smith are all hurt.

      • Tien

        Agreed Volume 12. Williams hasn’t been horrible. He has been the weakest player in our secondary but that’s expected given the other three starters. He’s only been terribly burned one time (thank god, the TD was called back for offensive holding) but if our defense overall had been playing better, I don’t think we’d be as concerned about his weaknesses. Realistically, the only player that I thought had a chance to challenge him for the starting spot was Simon but per usual, he couldn’t stay healthy and is now on IR.

      • Ed

        Burley and Smith are hurt, but not on IR. Let Shead play over there, he couldn’t do much worse. Let’s change the scheme a little. We all know Williams has a target on him, let Thomas slide to his side and have Sherman play man or know he doesn’t have over the top help. Do something, sticking with a broken car won’t get them to their destination.

    • RugbyLock

      Before we start going all crazy with exotic blitzes like Todd Bowles (IIRC he was the Cards D coordinator last year) I think they need to solve the communications problems they’re having so they don’t have the secondary in two different coverages on the same play…

  40. James

    We have all had the misfortune to witness the same formula for six games in a row (forget the Bears, they essentially forfeited the game):

    – lackluster offensive play and OK defense in the first half, leading to a close, ugly game going into halftime;

    – an exceptional 3rd quarter that yields a double-digit lead going into the 4th quarter; and then…

    – an utter collapse by both the defense and the offense in the 4th quarter.

    All six games were losses, except Kam gained a reprieve against the Lions with a miracle play on the goal line as Detroit was going in to score the winning formulaic TD.

    A formula this consistent is clear proof that the Seahawks problem is SYSTEMIC.

    The fact is, the Seahawks opponents have adjusted to our schemes, and have found the formula to defeat Seattle. Pete and his coaches have not adjusted to these adjustments, and seem to be doubling down on their schemes that have already been compromised.

    In the 4th quarter, the Seahawks opponents go on the attack, since they are fighting from behind. They blitz and attack the Seattle weak point, the O line, and destroy our offense, to the point we often find ourselves facing 3d and 20 in key 4th qtr possessions. Against our D, our opponents sell out to dink and dunk right down the field, taking advantage of Seattle’s vanilla D schemes and lack of sophisticated blitzes, etc. A ten-play 80 yard drive against our D in the 4th qtr has become a virtual certainty, and we flounder around in an embarrassing example of ineptitude.

    What an amazing and rapid turn-around! Once your opponent figures you out, you can go from a world-beater to a laughingstock overnight.

    The only question is will Pete make the systemic changes that appear obvious to all except him and his coordinators? Our offensive play book resembles my son’s junior high team’s playbook in its lack of sophistication. Our defensive schemes have been exposed and we are playing back on our heels against the dink and dunk, against which the only known defense is effective pass rush, especially through sophisticated blitz schemes. We are so beyond quick fixes and correcting mistakes that this is getting absurd.

    • Volume12

      So teams magically find the formula to beat us in the 4th quarter, but not the 1st three? As ‘vanilla’ as the schemes may be, fact is, we’ve had at least a 10 pt. lead going into the fourth dating back to the SB. It’s a lack of execution on both sides of the ball.

      They could probably change some things schematically and might need to, but these games were in hand and were all wins even with jr high playbook’s.

  41. Aaron

    “After the game it was revealed Thomas and Sherman received two different defensive calls. How does this happen?” This is a very interesting bit of information followed by a very important question.

    An answer to this question does exist somewhere. I would like to know this answer. Perhaps our intrepid squad of reporters will flesh this out.

    This should be an even more closely scrutinized focal-point given the two whiffs in the Bengals game that were both blamed on Kam. (PC later came out and said Kam played them correctly.) There have been many other blown coverages throughout the season. I hope people are being held accountable for these defensive mis-cues/mis-communications – at least behind closed doors. Ultimately the man at the top (Kris Richard) needs to be held accountable, particularly in a case where two DBs received different defensive calls.

    Let’s hope they figure it out and give themselves a chance.

    PS – It was great seeing the Cards lose again. They are human, and that team has benefited greatly from a soft schedule up until yesterday. (The exact opposite of us.) Amazingly, even with all the negativity that’s out there today (justifiably so), the Hawks have been in every game, and they are only two games back from winning the division as they approach the “easy” portion of their schedule. All is not lost. Hopefully we’ve reached rock-bottom and will rise again from the dead in classic Seahawks fashion.

    • Volume12

      Not only have we been in every game, but we’ve positioned ourselves to win every game, if we could close teams out like we used to do.

      Maybe PC is baffled by the fact that the guy he’s had forever, Kris Richard, might not be an NFL D coordinator.

      Ya also have to wonder if Dan Quinn sitting in a box and getting the ‘bird’s eye view’ of the playing field helped out.

      I agree. We’re still in this thang, and we have been known to play better with our backs against the wall and pissed off.

      • Steele

        PC is not baffled. He expresses full confidence in Kris Richard, just as he throws love out to every failing piece of the team. Bevell. Cable. Nobody ever does anything wrong.

        PC is wonderful at encouraging upward momentum when it is there. He is not good at fixing things when they are in decline, and terrible at making hard, nasty decisions. When the ship sinks, he goes down with it out of love.

        Unlike Belichick and Coach Brady, both of whom are ruthless at maintaining standards. So ruthless that they cheat.

  42. Largent80

    I can think of two possible factors for this string of 4th quarter collapses, but don’t have any data to back it up…

    1. Conditioning. If you have snap counts on the defense, 2015 vs. 2014 (especially the defensive line), I wonder if Kris Richard simply is trotting out the same core guys too often. I don’t know that this is the case, but it might be a factor.

    2. Sacks as drive-killers in the 4th quarter. How often do we pick up a first down after Russ is forced to eat it? How did this compare to last year?

    3. Marshawn slowing down in the 4th quarter. Last year it seemed like he got stronger the more the game went on – those 2- and 3-yd runs in the 1st half were becoming 5- and 6-yd runs in the 2nd half. Not so much this year. Maybe Father Time is catching up with him faster than we think? Instead of 2nd and 4, we’re looking at 2nd and 7, fail to convert, punt, watch other team score. Rinse, lather, repeat.


    Just throwing it out there for evaluation.

    • Steele

      I’m afraid it is all of the above and more. This team is not that impressive even when it is fresh, even when the games start. Top down and bottom up.

  43. Aaron

    Here is the answer (unsatisfying as it) compliments of Danny Kelly at FG:

    Sherman was playing cover 2 (which was called late and on his side of the field). Thomas and Chancellor were playing cover 3.

    We are in agreement that the blame rests with Kris Richard for the play-call snafu.

    However, it is possible that since Kam calls the formations for Earl, this is more fallout from Kam’s ill-conceived holdout and missing camp etc. (when there’s a new D coordinator taking over.)

    • Volume12

      Richard should be able to see that someone is out of position, take a timeout, regroup, and line ’em correctly.

      • Tien

        Someone in the comments section of that Field Gulls article said that there wasn’t much difference in player alignment between Cover 2 and Cover 3 and that’s why it wouldn’t have been obvious to the coaching staff that there was confusion about the defensive calls. Yes, the coaching staff screwed up by sending in a revised call so late but it still boils down the the captain of the defensive players on the field to make sure that EVERYONE got the corrected call. That didn’t happen so they need to fix it moving forward.

  44. smitty1547

    First i do not care what kind of zone coverage u got called you do not release your guy to run by you without some one their to pick him up. No less the one proven guy on the other team.

    I have been all for letting Bruce Irvin walk as his stupid penalty drive me nuts, having said that we may need to rethink unless he truly want out to Atlanta, if that’s the case so be it done, huge cap savings we can for sure use for more young and hungry talent.

    Williams seems to be taking more than his share of the blame, Green lit him up other than that he seems to worse than the original LOB who suck right now if you ask me. YES SUCKS

    As for the LOB Kam is not worth one more cent than he is currently making, as a matter of fact he should give back some. He’s another they can trade for somebody hungry if you ask me. He was the start of this mess.

    Hard to believe we are 2-4 should be 1-5 and really have had no injuries to core players unlike most of the other teams. SAD

    Last but not least most of you on this sight are hard core football fans and I’m sure have heard of the Music City Miracle, that was in 2000 to the Buffalo team that was favored to win the SB by a lot of people. Well hate to say it but they have not been back to the playoffs since!! A lot has been discussed on this sight about Seahawky players and our type, well NO GUTS NO GLORY. Were gonna find out soon enough if this team was built the way we think it has been by tough determined gritty people with a story to tell, with people who want more than just one ring or by a bunch of fat happy greedy I guys with no more team left in them. Right now it clearly is pointing to the 2nd.

    • Ed

      I remember it. I have been on the Irvin wagon for awhile. Even if we just keep him as a DE and rest Bennett and Irvin a little more, that gives Irvin/Bennett/Avril/Marsh as a rotation and KPL move to his LB spot. Sorry, but save the money by not resigning and/or cutting (Lynch/Okung/Sweezy/Mebane/Rubin/Kam). Might even be ok sending Mr. Offisides somewhere too. The attitude that got this team to the top is getting them to the bottom fast. JS may need to do a lot of work in the offseason to get the fire back. Get rid of those that don’t want to be here. Lock it up PC, it’s crunch time!!!!

    • Meat

      True team really is 1-5. Playoffs..nope.

      • Rob Staton


        So if the dramatic late win against Detroit doesn’t count, do the Seahawks get the wins in Cincy and St. Louis for taking it to overtime?

        • CHawk Talker Eric

          It counts as a win, and nothing changes that, missed call or otherwise.

          But I wouldn’t use it as support for SEA being a playoff contender this year. It was one spectacular play and missed call away from being SEA’s worst loss in a long time.

    • Largent80

      um…the Bills were a #6 seed in the year of the Music City Miracle. They had an 11-5 record, which sounds good, but then consider that the Titans and Jaguars each were 13-3, and the Colts were 14-2. And that’s just in the AFC. Waiting in the NFC was the revelation of the Greatest Show on Turf (also 13-3). Who are these people that had the Bills favored to win it all?

  45. smitty1547

    This isn’t Pee Wee Rob u don’t get point for anything other than a win

  46. Ed

    Everyone has a right to be upset and disappointed. The Hawks haven’t played well and PC really hasn’t done much to fix the problemost as of now. However, we are 2 out and have AZ twice. It’s not over yet, so be mad, but not doomed.

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