Instant reaction: Seahawks season ends in Atlanta

This was tough to watch.

Last year’s season-ender in Carolina at least finished with a typical fightback.

Here, they were just outclassed. Beaten by a better team. Hammered.

They kept it close for a quarter. Had the ideal start in fact. It wasn’t sustainable. Atlanta scored points, Seattle had no answer. Not on offense, not on defense.

At least in Green Bay there were turnovers to point to. No such excuse today.

Worrying trends continued:

— The ‘glass cannon offense’ theory proved true once again. Seattle has the pieces to be dangerous and explosive. Yet even the slightest hint of adversity and it shatters.

— Seattle wants to run the ball and again started well in that regard. Yet, like so often this year, they didn’t sustain it. Thomas Rawls had 29 yards on six carries in the opening drive. He had five carries for five yards the rest of the day. Too often we’ve seen stat lines like this, failing to build on early success with the running game. This isn’t Seahawks football.

— Jimmy Graham had three catches for 22 yards and a score on a day when it felt like he needed a big game. There are times when this kind of stat-line is understandable. Not today.

— The Seahawks didn’t turn the ball over and have struggled to force turnovers all season. Since Earl Thomas’ broken leg in week 13 they haven’t had a single interception. That’s a franchise record six games without a pick.

So much of Pete Carroll’s vision for this team is run the ball, set the tone, protect the ball and force turnovers.

Instead they increasingly look like a brittle finesse passing offense that struggles against any kind of adversity with a defense that struggles to get after the ball.

There’s probably a connection.

This shows up in Seattle’s road woes too. This type of football historically doesn’t travel well. They were 1-5-1 against NFC opponents with only a win against 2-14 San Francisco to their name.

For the first time since 2011, the Seahawks were well beaten not once but twice. This was the third time in eight games they were never within one score in the fourth quarter. That hadn’t happened once in the previous 98 games.

So what now?

It feels like the most important off-season since 2012. We can run through a list of positional needs. More importantly — it might be the core identity that needs repairing.

Will Pete Carroll consider changes to the coaching staff? It feels like you can’t rule it out — although a number of alternative options have since gained employment elsewhere.

And yet while it feels like the Seahawks are creaking towards the end of this current Championship window — they’ve avoided the kind of down year experienced by Arizona and Carolina this season. They still won 10 regular season games and advanced a round in the playoffs.

They also still have a ton of talent on both sides of the ball. You could argue the objective is to try and bring this collection of parts together again into a cohesive, connected unit — with a replenished and focused identity.

Had they won in week 16 against Arizona, who knows what would’ve happened if this game was in Seattle? Heck, who knows what happens if that penalty on Kevin Pierre-Louis isn’t called on special teams today, preventing the Seahawks potentially taking a 17-7 lead?

For all the road struggles vs the NFC, they also won in New England. A result that kept hopes alive longer than it possibly should’ve this year.

I’m sure there’ll be a mix of emotions today. Perhaps an initial desire for major change and an aggressive approach to free agency and the draft. It’ll eventually be offset by some realism that this is still a good football team, albeit a little broken.

That shouldn’t diminish how vital this off-season is, however. There is a lot to do. Right now, the Seahawks are not the cream of the NFL. And that will not sit well with a team that sets its sights as high as possible.


  1. rowdy

    At this point if budda baker is there at are pick I’d take him over anyone. He could play cb/s. I say this because I think are major needs will best be served in fa. Don’t think rookies will help enough at this point.

    • Rob Staton

      Can Budda play corner though?

      Because to me he’s a classic safety (one I like a lot). If Earl returns, you might be drafting a backup in R1.

      • rowdy

        I think he can. I see him more as a backup year one but getting a number plays a game in sub packages.

      • RWIII

        One thing is for sure. The Hawks need PLAYMAKERS on defense. No interceptions since Earl Thomas went down. I just don’t understand that statistic. No interceptions in six games. Unbelievable!

      • Curt

        Can it get any worse? We are Soooooooo Soft.
        We need playmakers. Someone who WANTS the ball not just the tackle!!!!

      • EranUngar

        I beg to differ on this point Rob.

        Yes, spending a top draft pick on a backup may sound like a waste but-

        With Earl on the field, the Seahawks were 8-2-1 with quality wins over ATL, NE, MIA, PHI. That includes a loss to the Rams that scored 3 FGs and a tie at ARI that scored just 2 FGs. With a decent offense, those should have been 2 more WINS.

        Without Eral we are 3-4 including 3 losses to teams that scored over 30 points.

        Nobody can replace a prenial all pro like Earl but considering his style of play and two injuries this year (hamstring and broken leg), I wonder if his backup is not the most valuable addition in terms of wins.

        If that player can be on the field in some sub packages and 3 safties lineups, all the better.

        • Rob Staton

          You don’t spend first round picks on insurance.

          Until this year Earl hadn’t missed a game. And yes — while he is a vital player and losing him was a major issue — you can’t use picks to plan for worst case scenarios like that. You might as well say let’s spend a round one pick on a quarterback in case Wilson gets injured too.

          • Juju

            I have lost all hope for Jermaine K and Jeremy Lane.

            Could Budda be a Nickel starter / backup safety?

          • Nathan

            By this logic we need to spend our first pick on a QB.

            Because if RW goes down we will lose.

    • Connor Jackson

      I find myself saying the same thing Rowdy. I’ve become obsessive over getting a interior DT who can rush the passer as well as OL, but the thought of adding back Earl and Budda sounds so good. I don’t know maybe it’s to much of a luxury.

      If they could lure Calais in and then grab Budda… invest everything else to OL lol.

      Anddddd then they need another RB, CB, SAM….. definitely work to be done this offseason.

      • CC

        Would love to see Calais in Seattle!

    • Daniel Bryan

      I know there’s a compulsion to identify your biggest need and either use your first pick on addressing that need or to cut player X and use his salary to address said issue. That’s typically not how a successful draft works. Buddha is a great player but don’t forget you can get a guy like Shalom Luani later on. Or if a Garrett Bolles is there where the Seahawks picks, do you really take Baker over Bolles? I’m not convinced you should. Don’t get fixated on one particular need. Seattle has plenty to improve upon.

      Rookies regularly contribute at a high level all around the league. Good teams do have to ask their rookies to step in and play well. It’s okay to do that. Let’s take Dallas as an example. Dak Prescott and Ezekiel Elliott are both big contributors to that team. Good teams find ways to get rookies to play well and contribute.

      • rowdy

        I would still take baker. Oline men have taken 2 years to be effective in are system and are d line is still loaded but needs consistent role players in my opinion.i belive a second wave veteran would be more effective. Are dbs are what make the system work and if worst case he is just a backup safety/corner year one he will still help. He’s an easy backup for Thomas and I would prefer him to back up kam over McCray too. I say this because I belive bakers mind is his best attribute and he should have a great combine on top of that.

        • Cyrus

          I feel like the Seahawks would be able to turn budda baker into the same level of player as a tyrann Mathieu as a dominant nickle corner Jeramy lane didn’t have a great season he missed tackles constantly and never really made an impact I fell like the Seahawks could trade down and still get him and it would be a smart move so we can have more mid round picks

          • Rob Staton

            Nickel corner is the toughest position to play on defense.

            • Juju

              So if it so difficult wouldnt a high pick be justified if buddha could fill it?

              • cyrus

                budda bakers coverage skills are amazing and i think he could be a special player for the seahawks

  2. Cameron

    Rumor has it Shead has a torn ACL – probably going to need to draft a corner early.

    • Trevor

      Really sucks for him. He had a solid year and was going to get paid this off season. Feel bad for the guy as he battled hard all year.

    • Daniel Bryan

      The earliest JS/PC have drafted a CB is Walter Thurmond III in the 4th round. Not likely to happen.

      • RWIII

        Well it could happen this year. The Hawks could go early (someone in the first three rounds) at cornerback. Seattle needs to look LONG and HARD at their defense. The ALSO need RUN the football.

    • C-Dog

      Well, this certainly a solid draft for corner. Bummer on Shead.

  3. DC

    Still proud of our team. We love you guys! Last time we lost to Atlanta in the playoffs we went on to win it all the next season. With the right additions we will again.

    Congrats to Dan Quinn’s Falcons. I’ll be rooting for them the rest of the way.

  4. litl_gravy

    The “glass cannon” argument is an argument that the offensive coaching is a problem. Period.
    Love this blog and check it more than once daily for years running, but Darrell Bevell and his inability to gameplan around his unit’s deficiencies are a huge problem.

    • Rob Staton

      If you focus on one coach, it’d be a mistake.

      Pete Carroll and Tom Cable have a lot of sway on this offense too.

      Bevell isn’t blameless — but anyone who thinks everything will be solved with one coaching is going to be disappointed.

      • Trevor

        It is really hard to game plan and call plays when your QB is pressured on 50% of drop backs. I think Bevel while not blameless was certainly not the main issue.

        • Hawk22Fun

          I agree Rob. They all – offensive peeps- are not working.

          No consistency…another late play call in resulting in a wasted timeout… they are NOT EXCELLENT. I think TomCable and Bevell need to MOVE ON. Go to SF if possible, whatever.

          Give Norv Turner full helm of the offense, let go Pete, and let him actually use Jimmy and PRich and Russell’s legs… GEEZ!!!


      • litl_gravy

        It may be the case that keeping a “running-game coordinator” and a “passing-game coordinator” is simply not practicable over the long haul.

        “Offensive coordinator” is the head of the department, at least as far as things are usually presented.

        This department is loaded with talent. It’s also riddled with problems and completely unable to adjust on the fly, let alone play to its own strengths.

        I’ll leave names and job titles out of it, but the way this offense is run is maddening.
        I certainly hope some changes will be implemented to minimize its deficiencies, highlight its strengths and raise the level of consistency of performance.

        • Rob Staton

          “It may be the case that keeping a “running-game coordinator” and a “passing-game coordinator” is simply not practicable over the long haul.”

          I think this is a very fair question to ask.

          • C-Dog

            Absolutely fair to ask.

            • Jeff M.

              Fwiw last year we were #1 DVOA offense (#2 pass and #3 rush). Year before it was #5/#10/#1, before that #7/#8/#7. It’s worked before (even without Marshawn…last year with Rawls was the best the offense has performed) with these coaches and that responsibility split; it just didn’t this year.

              • C-Dog

                Fair to bring that up as well.

      • Stuart

        Please help me understand this? Going into this game the obvious game plan on offense was to run the ball, and run the ball some more. Not only did Atlanta have a statistical bad run defense, by running the ball we take valuable time off the clock for their sensational offense.

        We did it to absolute perfection on the games opening drive and it was like they took that game plan that worked like a dream, and then the coaches to

        • Stuart

          Please help me understand this? Going into this game the obvious game plan on offense was to run the ball, and run the ball some more. Not only did Atlanta have a statistical bad run defense, by running the ball we take valuable time off the clock for their sensational offense.

          We did it to absolute perfection on the games opening drive and it was like they took that game plan that worked like a dream, and then the coaches abandon the run 1st for the rest of the game

          • arias

            Because they got behind. Running the ball is a fine strategy to eat clock and keep their offense off the field, so long as you maintain the lead.

            • 75franks

              a 2 score game is not to far behind to run it

    • Nathan

      Not much coaches can do when a play clearly designed to overcome those shortcomings(the quick screen pass to collins) is dropped.

  5. Trevor

    Today really was concerning with regards to the core of this team.

    The Falcons looked young, fast and hungry. The Hawks looked old, tired and broken down.

    I really think there needs to be an infusion of youth, speed and toughness on the defense and some experience on the OL. If they can accomplish those two things this off season then this team has one more run in them. If not I fear the window may be closing shut on this groups SB chances.

    • Volume12

      Bad teams need QBs. Good teams add speed. But its tough to do when you pick so late every year.

      • Trevor

        You are so right. It is what makes the Pats run so amazing. To be contending for an SB every year for the alst decade.

        What they have not done though is pay aging stars like we have done with Bennett. Will be interesting to see how this off season plays out.

        • Volume12

          Oh, they would’ve paid Bennett too. Rodney Harrison said NE fears him the most of all our defenders. He’s a top 5 D-lineman. Glad they kept him.

          • Trevor

            I am just using him as an example. I still think he has a couple of good years left. At least I hope.

            • BobbyK

              Richard Seymour

            • Darren253

              Regarding youth,

              We have the 11th youngest roster in the NFL. We actually need mor experience in some areas, like on the offensive line.

              • EranUngar

                We have the 11th youngest roster, not the 11th youngest starting defense. Shead, Reed and Clark are the only key players on rookie contracts.

                Thomas, Kan, Sherman, Lane, K.J., Wags, Morgan, Rubine, McDaniel, Avril and Bennett are all on thier 2nd contract…

                • Hawk Eye

                  young players and good, contributing young players are 2 different animals.
                  How many good young players on their rookie contracts are making an impact for Seattle vs the other top 7 or 8 teams this year?

                  • LordSnow

                    THis is a very key statement hawkeye.

                  • C-Dog

                    In 2017 watch for Quinton Jefferson and potentially Garrison Smith to make an impact on the DL, and DeAndre Elliot to further himself along at corner.

  6. Sean Zete

    I think Sydney Jones would be an excellent add to this team. He just didnt give anything up this season for Washington.

    • Trevor

      He would be ideal but probably a top 20 pick. I think he is the best or 2nd best CB in this class.

      • Hawktalker

        Njoku? 🙂

    • CC

      Totally agree – if he’s there when we pick we need to draft him – CB was an issue opposite Sherm and slot all year. And I like Shead, he just isn’t good enough.

      • Bob Thatcher

        Shead and Lane both suffered this year. If Budda or Sidney are there in the 1st, I would take them in a heartbeat. Sidney would be the other lockdown corner that we desperately need. And Budda could be utilized as a hybrid S/CB in the nickel. Having Kam, Earl, and Budda all on the field at once covering the middle would be DangerRuss lol.

  7. Volume12

    Disappointing. Tough to watch.

    As you said, game started out well, but that penalty flipped the momentum. All it takes is one. Potentially changed the season.

    Without ET its gonna be hard to beat high powered offenses. And credit to Atlanta. There’s no defense for a perfect pass. None. Zero.

    This O-line wasn’t good enough all season and the undoing.

    Rawls was running well, but they went away from it and probably had to. No RB is good enough to make guys miss in the backfield every other snap with defenders instantly in his face.

    P-Rich needs to play more next year. He’s got so much damn potential.

    And yes, not getting beat in the run game is central to this team, but the #1 most important thing? Not giving up explosive plays. Too much of that.

    Maybe, just maybe this team needed to be humbled and become hungry again.

    I also agree they’ll be aggressive this off-season.

    No doubt we’ll be back next year. Was a tough season, but I personally enjoy the journey just as much as the destination.

    • Trevor

      Agree completely on PRich he was a huge bright spot this post season. Baldwin, Locket and Kearse make up a nice trio next year. Need a big WR to join that group IMO.

      • Hoberk Unce

        If the team is true to its ‘always compete’ mantra then Kearse may not make the final roster next year. To my eyes he’s been the worst receiver on the field multiple games. 1 reception for 8 yards in the playoffs doesn’t cut it.

    • Frank

      Not just PRich with the potential to do so much more, it’s the entire offense. Where has he been in the game plan all this time?

      GLASS CANNON so apt. This offense makes its living steamrolling weak defenses and has been doing so for years. This inflates their stats and has created an entire movement (mostly online) that views criticism of bevel as the definition of unreasonable.

      This “Bevell the Sacred Cow” meme has got to go, and so does he. That this team only has one ring is outrageous.

      • Hawk22Fun

        Agreed Frank… Bevell has no intuition in game flow against tough teams… he lets mobile Russell sit back there and get killed…. #Bootleg #PlannedScramble #BeCreative

        PS-that penalty on KPL was TOTAL BS!!! 90 yard flip… #REFSf-edUP

        • Frank

          Many respected football minds have criticized the primitive concepts of our offense.

        • Frank

          Yep 84 yard flag and he almost did it again later should’ve been flagged for roughing the punter. Weak call but he shouldn’t have done that immature.

          On the possession after the big flag Odi steps on Russell.

          At the end of the following series Wright is pushed back on the ground on what wold have been a drive killing penalty that took them out t of FG range. Instead Frank Clark comes out of nowhere and goes full-rookie on the Falcons guy, and so the refs don’t bother double flagging.

          Pete needs to adjust his approach I think. Needs to coach more discipline into the guys ala Bill Bilechek so this isn’t happening to us all the time like it seems like it is.

  8. Trevor

    JS has some cap room this off season and needs to use it well.

    Last years FA signings were all busts (Lane, Kearse, Webb, Sowell).

    Really think you could see some dramatic and unexpected moves this off season as you can tell Pete was not happy with the look and make up of this team.

    • LordSnow

      I thought they were twenty something in cap room. I think they’d be able to focus on one new big FA and their own guys was my thought.

      • Trevor

        I think the only guys they need to worry about in house are Kam and Britt. I would let Steve H and Willson walk to save the cap room and go after and Zietler or Campbell.

        • Hawk22Fun

          Agreed Trevor, their latest FA $’s have been bad ideas.

          Haushkha is nice, but off, older, and more expensive…if he makes that kick at the end of the RAMS game, this game is in SEATTLE.
          What a massive miss looking back…

          Willson is good, but Vannett is ready…
          We need to double down on a Prosise backup like Mccaffery…

  9. Elliott Atkinson

    Paul Richardson was a silver lining today. At this point he should be above Kearse on the depth chart, for next season.

    • Hawk22Fun

      This is where Pete FAILED to compete this year. Kearse was HORRIBLE, and it took until week 14 for Tyler Lockett to pass him?

      PRich is FAR BETTER and more explosive, yet he wasn’t on the field…the ‘Kearsed’ was??? That is a breakdown in philosophy Pete…a Failure.

      It cost Seattle big… I would Trade Kearse for ‘anything’…

      • PPast

        Remember, Tyler was hurt the first part of the season.

        • Hawk22Fun

          …and where was PRich?

          It was all the ‘Kearsed one’… a HORRIBLE year…

          • Hawk Eye

            well, the theory is that Kearse is a good blocker and helps the run game.
            But, ranking 25th in the run game makes that somewhat questionable

            • cyrus

              we should cut kearse to save money for potential free agent like calais campbell or dontari poe

              • cyrus

                just because richardson is great and underused and we have players like kasen williams and kenny lawer and taner macevoy who can fufill the duties as blocking/”big target” receivers i know that he has made many clutch plays but paul richardson can do that as he has now proven that he has the ability to high point the ball in the air while running full speed down the feild.

  10. Austin

    I have a hard time understanding how the staff continually played Kearse over Richardson. I don’t care how good his perimeter blocking is( ironically Baldwin is graded higher). In an always compete environment he should of been on the field much more this year.

    • CC

      I wasn’t happy that they paid Kearse so much money – he under performed this year. Lockett can come back and be okay, if you have him and PRich you have speed. Kearse isn’t even a possession receiver anymore.

      • LordSnow

        If you look at Kearse target % last year it was among the top 10 in the NFL. I now have to believe that was a result of RW’s superb play down the stretch rather than Kearse himself.

        • Hawk22Fun

          Pete failed to follow ‘compete always’ by letting Kearse stay in the lineup for so long…Tyler and PRich are far superior…


          • LeoSharp

            I think you guys are forgetting that Richardson was probably the biggest reason for the interception against Tampa. He hasn’t played this well for the entire season but he definitely has improved to now surpass Kearse.

            • Hawk22Fun

              I understand he stopped coming back to the ball on that ONE pass… otherwise, Kearse has caused major problems.

              • LordSnow

                All of this the result of acquiring Percy Harvin. No Harvin, Tate probably stays, and Jermaine is still a backup.

                20/20 hindsight.

  11. bobbyk

    Moving forward, I like our interior OL. They are young. They have talent. It was simply too much to ask they be all that good in the first year all starting in those spots. The Seahawks miscalculated. However, just because the interior wasn’t good this year – doesn’t mean they won’t be next year. Tackle is much more of a problem. Unless they do move Ifedi to RT as they alluded to in training camp that they eventually might. Then right guard is a problem (but a tackle may be solidified). The OL is only part of the problem though.

    The D never stepped up like it should have with that much talent. Bad coaching? How can a defense with that many good/great players, not perform like their talent indicates it should?

    • Trevor

      I hope they move Ifedi to RT and bring in Zeitler to play RG. They need some experience on that OL.

      The D looked old tired and beat up. Too many guys with too many miles on their bodies and big contracts. I know missing Earl is a big deal but they had no chance today.

    • Volume12

      They got beat by the better team. It happens.

      And this isnt directed at you in anywsay whatsoever, but it cracks me up that there’s so many needs, but so much talent on this team. Huh?

      • Trevor

        It is always like that when a team looses after being so dominant. Fans remember those SB teams and the depth but forget there is a Cap and those guys get paid for that SB.

      • BobbyK

        That’s fine and none taken. I was talking with friend and I said I think the Seahawks have the best 10-15 top players in the NFL, … but I said I bet their #15-53 players are easily in the bottom half. That’s what I meant.

        • Fairlawn

          Just the painful reality of the situation is that in the post-McCloghan drafts they have not added enough talent into the pipeline to seriously Win Forever. If you looked at their draft classes for 2013-2016 who among those guys looks like you’d want to re-sign them and build around them into the 2020s as a core asset? I’d say Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett are the only two clear yeses at this point. Maybe we’ll be there with Jarran Reed. Perhaps Justin Britt is now a coherent center. It’s nice to see Paul Richardson show, as much as his history suggests caution. So maybe it’s more than just two guys but it’s not hugely more than two.

          This really shows when their depth is tested; you don’t expect like for like when an Earl Thomas gets injured but Terrell in no way held the, or any, fort. What would happen if Sherman got hurt — now, as compared to if he were lost in 2013-2014?

          The entire LOB is 28-29 years old next year. Bennett and Avril are 30+. Yes, the current team still has its window but … tick tock. And when one of them goes down because they’re aging dudes playing a violent game, who are the youngsters and backups who flash and preseason and will be making the most of their chance?

          I agree with Rob that this offseason is critical, but in many ways they need to hit this year because of how often they’ve missed recently.

          • Hawk Eye

            older football players get injured more and take longer to recover, just a simple part of playing a violent game. Hawks do not have enough good, young, hungry back ups on defense and will be more vulnerable next year than this one

  12. CC

    If Sidney Jones is there at 26/27 where ever we pick, we need to grab him. If not CB in the first – really look at Kevin King in the second, because he won’t last to the 3rd.

    I really think our offense is predictable and has become stale in the running game. Part of that is the OL, but it is more than that – Bevell calls poor games more and more often.

    Defensively, this is not the same team – the third LB is a weak spot – we missed Bruce Irvine. Kris Richard – even though he was getting coaching calls isn’t good enough – I know this is Pete’s defense, so maybe it’s on Pete more than KR.

    Sloppy play in too many games came back to haunt them. Winning is tough to do – the window is still open, but it’s swinging closer to closed than kicked open.

    Until next season – Go Hawks

    • Trevor

      Agree completely about Jones or King both guys would fit in nicely.

      I hope we trade back in Rd #1 and pick up another day #2 pick to grab a guy like King late in Rd #2 or early Rd #3.

      There are a ton of quality DBs in this class fortunately.

    • Volume12

      I’d love for them to go CB earlier, but I still have my reservations they will.

      Hoewever, with Shead having a possible ACL injury and the explosive/chunk plays they gave up today maybe they should. I don’t think it necessarily has to be a 1st rounder either.

      • Trevor

        This is a really deep CB class so there should be really good options on day #2.

      • Rob Staton

        CB early seems more possible this year than others. Partly due to Shead’s injury, partly due to the strength of this class.

        • Volume12

          If Marlon Humphrey was there? Tempting man.

          • Hawk22Fun

            Sherman was pretty bad today…he played too far off on an early 3rd and 7, and gave it up. We needed to Suffocate them, and he wasn’t capable. It is time for Pete and John to swallow their pride and take an actual game changer at CB. Sherman can’t do it by himself anymore… Lane and Shead are average…

            The biggest threat to other teams next year with our 1st round pick would be to add another talent opposite Sherman…


            • Volume12

              He was. How much of that was Julio though? Is there anyone that can guard him without help over the top?

            • Nolan

              Or atleast a ball hawk on the other side… the corner next to sherm has to be a guy who gets his hands on the ball a lot. Teams still throw away from sherm so much but the cub 2 has to be able to get interceptions cuz he is going to get targeted a lot.

            • Juju

              Lane has been FAR BELOW AVERAGE ALL YEAR. Really disappointed in him.

          • C-Dog

            Absolutely. This draft is loaded with corners. Could it be a year where they double, triple dip with DBs?

    • Frank

      Would like be to get Jones we don’t have any ballhawks on this D and the team philosophy is predicated on turnovers.

      Also someone that groom into LCB as Sherman begins to age.

      • Hawk Eye

        I would put a Dt who can cause havoc in the backfield as priority number one in the draft and a good corner as #2, with SAM at #3. Playmakers. Would not argue with a good back up safety who can play nickel cb
        I know the o line is a huge problem, but I hope they get a couple of vets there to help. Doubt they get any all stars, but just a competent tackle and a competent guard would make a huge difference and would probably help the kids grow up faster.

  13. LordSnow

    If this team is a run first team, as everyone has discussed, I think it needs to add one more back either in draft or FA, and probably one more olineman via FA. As a fan I’m done with drafting a newby to add to the newbies. Mark Schlereth said in preseason it would prove to be our undoing. We all know that turned out correct.

    If this is a pass first team, then it needs to find a #2 WR that can also help in the red zone. Kearse isn’t going to cut it as the #2 guy in a pass first offense. And it will have to possibly dip into free agency for an olineman. The team has to focus on protecting its 20 million dollar thrower.

    Defensively they are not the same. It needs that interior pass rush. Again, everyone here knows this. But it also needs depth. Can you imagine if Wagz or KJ were out for the season? Brock Coyle ain’t going to cut it. KPL is only valuable on ST (or IS he??????). Morgan is meh. It doesn’t appear to have any of those backup secondary hybrids waiting in the wings to take over that second cb spot either.

    On top of this, you have some age. Bennett is up there, Avril…McDaniel. Kam? Is his high contact play suggesting an older body than 28? Sherm will be near his third major contract, as will Earl. That’s an aging unit.

    There has to be competition for both Ryan and Hauschka. Hausch, I can’t believe some people think it should be his job be default.

    Most super bowl teams win one time with their core and then thats it. They fade, fight for a few years, and like an aging car with a lot of mileage on it, it doesn’t break down at once, instead, the starter goes, the water pump, the alternator…it falls apart piece by piece, and you end up running in circles trying to keep it perfectly humming. This is what I’m seeing with this team. The decline has been no different than what we typically see with other previous champions.

    New England is the aberration by keeping the best qb to ever play the game and the best coach in the history of the game.

    • Volume12

      NE has proved that as long as you have a great QB and HC, you can win consistently. GB too.

      • Trevor

        Agree but you need to be ruthless with replacing aging stars like NE has unfortunately and I don’t see PC/JS doing that. The have a real emotional connection with this core group.

        • Volume12

          Absolutely. But when they paid these guys they were young and still in their prime. Most still are. They’d eat too much dead money now. And you gotta stay under the cap if you want to be a player in FA when needed.

          • Trevor

            JS has setup the deals well and to be honest the stars players played well. They have just not been able to add the quality young depth in the draft behind these guys the last 3-4 years.

            • Volume12

              Agreed. Although last year and this year they’ve nailed quite a few picks. Clark, Lockett, Glow, Rawls are 4 starters. And this year is too early to judge, but looks good so far.

              • AlaskaHawk

                Yes I think they did really well with 2016 draft. They found a lot of starters, and for second year in a row found a starting defensive linemen (Reed, Clark). This is mitigated by Ifedi’s inconsistent play as a first rounder and at one of the easier to fill positions. I have hopes for Odhiambo next year, but where would they put him?

                Mostly I saw from the multiple picks last draft that they were trying to find offensive linemen and running backs. I can’t say I’m reassured that they have permanent players in the starting group in either position. So from that point of view they will probably have to draft in those positions again, most especially for offensive tackles.

                I’m not worried about the aging stars as long as they shorten the contract extensions. They have had too much money wasted on Harvin and Lynch at the ends of their careers. Would rather not see a repeat.

  14. Michael (CLT)

    Does Seattle think about replacing Russell Wilson? If Russell cannot run I’m unsure he is a top flight qb. Am i reacting to two average years?

    • Volume12

      Yes. Cut RW. Trade Jimmy. Cut Kam. And while we’re at it, fire PC too.

      • Michael (CLT)

        I realize it is an over reaction v12. And I realize cutting jimmy is An over reaction.

        But you have to admit there is something broken with Russell, or jimmy, or both.

        I am unsure this highly intelligent team hasn’t lost passion for the game, including Wilson.

        No harm in that. Can you alwaus compete when you are complacent?

        This team reminds me of the 2006 team. Maybe blow it up and start over?

        • LordSnow

          I wouldn’t want to start looking for a franchise qb again. Remember Charlie Whitehurst?

          We may rebuild around Russell, but it will be around russell and no other.

        • Volume12

          They have needs just like everyone else. Should Denver, Arizona, Carolina blow things up?

          If we had won, would the conversation be the same?

          • Michael (CLT)

            Good point. I am basing my thoughts based on inconsistencies shown by Russell’s since Green Bay in the championship game.

            I’m wrong to have expressed the thought. Apologies.

            • Kelly

              No Michael,

              I think you are correct. Russell was hurt this year, but he never looked comfortable or “right”. I am sure it is a combo of things, but as a franchise QB, more has to be on his shoulders since the running game is not working and he has not shown that he can do that consistently.At least not yet he hasn’t

    • LordSnow

      Last year he was lights out. I’d take last year’s RW any day, any year.

    • Rob Staton

      I can answer that very quickly — no, they will not think about replacing Russell Wilson.

    • Frontrower

      Is this sarcasm?
      He was injured for how many games? He finally got healthy end of season. Was he coached not to run coming off injury? My only gripe would be that he hasn’t made plays with his legs when the opportunity is there, getting positve yards and first downs to keep
      drives alive.

    • Rawls1234

      Um… Is this a joke?

      • Michael (CLT)

        No, no joke. Just an honest thought. Seattle is in the midst of change. I am unsure Russell will have a long career with the current team process. When I watch Prescott I see a young, slim, athletic Russell. Is it so impossible we keep the cheap qb gAmerica manager Andy go all in on defense?

        Just an honest thought. Apologies if i offended.

        • LordSnow

          One thing I will agree with on your supposition: in that first game against Miami I didn’t think RW looked to be in great athletic shape. I don’t know if you remember when Curt Warner’s rookie season how he looked so thin, quick, and explosive, then his knee injury, and forever after that he looked slower, thicker, and became more of a 4 yard power runner than they guy at Penn State. RW reminded me of that for some reason.

          Next season will be interesting. The team demands so much from him. I think he comes back 100% and he will look physically like a different guy than what we saw this season.

          • Michael (CLT)

            Agree. Great insights.

            • Volume12

              No need to apologize. Just thought it was over reacting.

              I was one of these people. Thought QB Matt Ryan was regressing and holding Atlanta back. But, he had a bad year or two, they helped him in terms of personnel and needs, now? MVP candidate and spear heading the best offense in football.

              • Michael (CLT)

                This is my fervrent hope.

        • C-Dog

          I then RW is a top five QB in the league and will be for years to come. He’s a QB you build around. What he did this year with a high ankle sprain, sprained knee and torn peck was nothing short of remarkable. Plus he’s young enough to get better. Russell Wilsons and Dak Prescott don’t grow on trees. No way do I think they try to replace him.

    • Frank

      Replacing him sounds insane to me but how about encouraging him to train as hard as he ever has before, and refraining frohm hyping him up preseason this builds the opposite mentality than the one that makes him great.

    • vrtkolman

      Any other QB would look bad behind our line. Matt Ryan was awful leading 6-10 teams behind poor O lines.

  15. 1976Hawk


    Excellent points and you’re correct in saying this is the most important offseason since 2012. All of our flaws/weaknesses were exposed by the Falcons. In spite of Mr. Positive, Pete Carroll’s comments are, I believe the following needs to happen: 1) Change of coaches ( I would say especially OC/Cable because he can not evaluate talent correctly and he has helped to create this o line the past two seasons) due to the fact a lot of the league has caught on to us and fresh ideas would help, 2) same old issue, offensive frickin line (please draft some tackles asafp who can play or go get some good ones in free agency because their lack of skill is destroying our quarterback and our seasons), 3) defensive ends with speed and power (I know you’ve highlighted some in the draft), 4) cut Jermaine Kearse and spend that money on an area of need, 5) we need a cornerback opposite of Sherm who has speed to cover these receivers because Shead’s lack of speed gets exposed by the better teams, 6) an interior rusher who can pressure the QB and 7) a big bulldozing, bruising running back. I love Rawls & Prosise but they can’t/won’t stay healthy for an entire NFL season. We are farther away then PC/JS would have us believe from contending for the ring because teams have passed us up: Cowboys, Falcons, Packers and that’s just in our division. Hey, there’s always next year. Look forward to everyone’s comments and your draft insight Rob.

    • Darnell

      There’s no financial benefit to parting ways with Kearse this offseason.

      • KingRajesh

        There is a tangible benefit to it outside of cap – you send a message to the team that nobody is safe if they don’t compete and live up to their contract. Sherman looks bored out there. Where is the brash DB that jumped routes and knew when the WR was going to break before they did it? Where are the big hits from Kam? Where are the forced fumbles?

        Kearse is an expendable message you can send to the team. Always compete, or else.

        • Hawk Eye

          good point.
          They let Webb and Williams go during the season with no financial benefit to the team at that point.
          Both Lane and Kearse have contracts that give no advantage to letting them go next year, unless there are better players playing at a rookie wage.
          Loyalty is good, winning is better

          • CHawk Talker Eric

            Lane and Kearse have more than $11M in dead cap between them.

            Webb had just $2.5M in dead cap (likewise, Williams had about $2.3M in dead cap). Also, there were better options on the roster to replace both (Ifedi, Odhiambo and Sowell for Webb; Shead and Lane for Williams) and more pressing needs during the season at those times. I don’t remember about Williams, but for Webb the need was RB – I think they signed George Farmer to Webb’s roster spot.

            Sure you can cut Lane and Kearse, but you need to replace them with better players, and even if you can do that, you’re still stuck with an $11M hole in your roster cap.

            I’ve been as critical as anyone about Lane all year. I think he’s pretty much failed to live up to his extension. But he’s not THE one thing that is bringing down the defense. Replacing him won’t suddenly make the rest of the D indomitable again (and who would you replace him with?). Also, he’s had decent moments during the season. Slot corner is probably the most difficult and thankless position on SEA’s defense. Give him an offseason to correct his problems. He’s still pretty young.

            I’m more ambivalent about Kearse. He also has failed to live up to his extension. His dead cap is about half as much as Lane’s ($3.6M vs $7.5M) and there are other, perhaps better options currently on the roster. I still think he’s back next season, but he’s closer to the edge.

            • AlaskaHawk

              I’ve been critical of Lane also. I just want to be clear about why I’m critical. The good part is that he always is close to the play and often gets his hands on the arms of the receiver. The bad part is that he never looks for the ball, never seems to break up the play, is a weak tackler, and hasn’t had an interception since I don’t know when.

  16. Alex

    The last time we had a finesse passing offense, Jeremy Bates got fired…. what’s your move Pete Carroll. I for one am screaming for Mike Shanahan to come in as the new Assistant Head coach, and offensive coordinator.

    • Rob Staton

      Cannot imagine Mike Shanahan working under Pete Carroll. Shanny is 64-years-old. Being a coordinator for someone else at his age? Can’t see it.

      • Hawk22Fun

        How about Norv Turner??? Fresh lessons for Russ!

        • Rob Staton

          Norv doesn’t really seem like a fit to me.

          I think if they were going to make a change it would be someone well versed in a west coast style.

          It’s a shame there isn’t another unemployed Kyle Shanahan out there. Atlanta played a blinder getting him.

          • Hawk22Fun

            Rob…can you please do a piece on the possible replacements for Seattle OC? What type of fit we need for Russ/Jimmy/Baldwin/PRich/Lockett…etc…

            Someone needs to take the energetic blame for the failed SB, and he is the most likely fall guy…

            • Rob Staton

              I know there will be a lot of demand for a piece like this — but I will not be doing one on potential replacement OC’s.

              For starters, there aren’t any obvious candidates. There isn’t a Kyle Shanahan, freshly fired by Cleveland sat waiting for the next job. Guys like Mike McCoy are already in employment again. I could produce names — but I wouldn’t know whether they were a good fit. Some would be first time play callers, unknowns.

              Secondly, regardless of people’s impressions of Bevell, I still think Pete Carroll deserves trust. If he stands by DB and Cable, I will not challenge that. Ditto if he makes a change. And I’ll trust him to get it right.

              • Darnell

                I know he’s considered a pretty big a-hole – but Greg Roman would be my guy from available options if Pete was willing to go to a power running game (which I think would suit Britt,Glow,Ifedi and Fant much better than the zbs). Bring Mile Solari with with him to coach the oline.

                Basically, as crazy as it would have seemed then, I think the Hawks current offensive personnel would look much better in the 2012-13 49ers scheme.

                • Darnell

                  Nevermind; Solari is with the Giants and Roman with the Ravens

            • D-OZ

              Lynn, the guy I wanted is now the Chargers HC. That was a excellent hire by them.

  17. 75franks

    what a weird game. came out hot with a nice balanced drive then nothing. just a few weird things I noticed today.

    Sherman lineing up outside on the right side on the TE?
    Sherman again 10 yards off the receiver on a 3rd and 5?
    No pressure, no blitzing
    almost like we were playin some prevent most the game so many short to mid passes with no one around
    Didn’t see a lot of fire today ATL seemed to want it more.

    I think they need to send a message to the team and trade a core player or fire a coach or somethin.
    they just seem a little to comfortable. and they need to know that bad performance is not acceptable.

    cant wait till the draft go hawks

    • Volume12

      Blitzing would’ve been so stupid against this team. Oh wait. They did and got caught with Avril in coverage on Freeman.

      • 75franks

        so givin up play after play is better?

      • 75franks

        and how can u say that they burned us all day not just when we blitzed. jesus!

        • Volume12

          What would blitzing have done? You can’t defend a perfect pass. Ryan was throwing dimes on passes that were well defended.

          This defense is predicated on getting pressure with the front 4. Using Mike Morgan as an EDGE today? Pointless.

          • 75franks

            This defense is predicated on getting pressure with the front 4

            yes it is but when that’s not working what do u do? you blitz.

            What would blitzing have done?

            idk maybe cause a pick or a fumble or maybe a sack? maybe it would have stopped them?

            we saw what no pressure did all day.

            • Volume12

              Blitz who? Ryan gets rid of the ball to quick. If we had a Bruce Irvin? Yeah. Or maybe if ET was healthy, but BWagz is a great blitzer, however they needed him to patrol between the hashes deeper than usual today. Atlanta neutralized him.

              • Ed

                Another point that is lost on me. What happened to the LOB roughing up the receivers at the line. That always helped too. Can’t just not blitz because Ryan was throwing dimes. You mix it up. That’s what good DC do.

                • Volume12

                  They can’t anymore. League changed those rules. They still do get away with a lot.

                  You live by the blitz, or die by it. This team doesn’t live by it.

                  • Mylegacy

                    V12 is right.

                    Other than first down – this team’s defense is built on the front 4 unit pressuring the QB and the front 7 as a whole doing the normal job of stopping the run that most teams use a front 8 for. With superstars like Sherman and Thomas and Chancellor in the secondary this approach was/is excellent.

                    BUT – this is a very fragile balance. Today – the front four couldn’t bring it (until the game was already decided) – and there were many plays where Ryan had way too much time. The first time we blitzed they hit on a 2,000 yard screen. Ouch.

                    This defense is a $350,000 Lamborghini and when all 12 cylinders are purring so is the whole D – when any cylinder is off – even a bit – the whole thing is merely a shadow of itself.

                    Sherman is becoming a distraction and not only off the field. Kam opened the discussion on the 800 pound gorilla in the room – the teams lack of emotional maturity under fire.

                    There is so much talent on this team – but it is very fragile. The brain trust has some serious thinking to do.

                    But – my oh my – there STILL is some serious talent on this team. SB 2017 – here we come!!

              • 75franks

                you blitz to outnumber the oline. when u do that someone is running free. so give me KPL or KJ or Thorpe or Kam or Wagz or just about anyone running free at the qb. rather then just sitting back and watching them toast you on 99 yard drives.

                • Hawktalker

                  I would prefer trying this rather than experiencing the definition of insanity.

      • Frank

        That was the first exception and it comes with the territory when you blitz. But we were sitting back all day Like he said. little pressure outside of Bennett, little adjustment to that from def staff.

    • Ed

      As much grief as one would get, would be all in for that. The voices have been lost. The message has been lost. The fire has been lost. New OC that stick to the run even when it’s not initially working. New DC that mixes up the blitz to keep the QB guessing.

      • 75franks

        ty ed. and I am expecting grief 🙂

        • Ed

          Nah, Rob probably is asleep. Maybe in the morning.

          • 75franks


          • Rob Staton

            No grief from me. I don’t mind this conversation. It will be had.

            What I have an issue with is people pinning the blame on one guy, like replacing the OC will suddenly right all wrongs. This goes far deeper than that, we know it does. Leave ‘FIRE BEVELL’ to Twitter.

            • Mishima


              Bevell wasn’t responsible for rolling with Gilliam, Fant, Webb and Sowell as your 4 OTs.

              Hopefully, the process that led to that decision is questioned/addressed/rectified. Hubris might be killing this team.

              • Hawktalker

                I think that was a spot on comment.

            • daniel

              I’m not saying anybody should be fired, but just out of curiosity does anybody have a guess as to who made the decisions to abandon the run game throughout the season (Bevel, Cable, Pete, etc.) or if it wasn’t just on one person how the blame should be assigned. I completely understand why they went away from the run, I just think that there were several times this season that in hindsight they should have been a little more patient with it.

              • LordSnow

                THe line play and running back play probably dictated this lack of commitment. It’s been pointed out by both ROb, bloggers here, and radio hosts alike. So the question is, how do you get it to where you trust it as much as you trust RW? They clearly trust RW. How do you get the running game back where Pete isn’t afraid to use it in any situation like he did with Marshawn?

                • AlaskaHawk

                  They made a hard effort to find running backs this year. Most just didn’t work out. Some were cut (Micheals) and the best two were injured. Add in an inconsistent offensive line and it was a recipe for disaster. Now if Wilson had been healthy they could have done and arial attack like New England, but he was gimping around on one good leg too.

  18. JakobDK

    I think you touch on a great number of points Rob. Especially regarding a really crucial offseason.
    I don’t believe we need to make many changes, but I believe we might need two or three important decision where we cannot afford to be wrong.
    1) the identity of the team. What should it be and what players / coaches gets us closest to that? I am not sure if going back to the run heavy mindset is the right one, but on the other hand I am still not seeing a team well equipped scheme and protection wise to consistently perform a more passing oriented offensive philosophy.
    2) are we sensing a level of complacency? Do people protect the team? I am not saying we should trade Richard Sherman but his outlashes against his own team is concerning if you want to maintain “protect the team” as a core rule. We need to make sure we can maintain the culture.
    I just feel that we really haven’t had the right in focus in all games.

    Maybe I am just frustrated since the season has been so inconsistent in the last 6 weeks. But I kinda feel we could be at a cross road.

  19. LeoSharp

    Injuries have affected the Seahawks this year more than any other season under Carrol. They decimated this years draft class and key contributors from last year. Plus all the star players/starters that have missed multiple games.

    Russel Wilson
    Earl Thomas
    Kam Chancellor
    Michael Bennett
    Germain Ifedi
    Deshawn Shead
    Thomas Rawls
    C.J Prosice
    Tyler Lockett
    Luke Willson
    Nick Vannett
    Mike Morgan
    Quinton Jefferson
    Bradley Sowell

    All missed multiple game or were placed in IR. Except Russel who has been severely limited this year and hasn’t been his normal self when throwing the ball either. Plus the injury to Justin Britt which was the biggest reason for a loss against Tampa.
    If you go back to the numerous injuries in the week 2 game against the Rams, if that had ended differently then you’d be looking at a 2nd seed Seahawks Team.

    • Volume12

      That’s incredible looking at that list.

      For all the injuries, bad O-line play, mistakes, whatever, this team was a few plays away from the 2 seed as you point out.

    • LordSnow

      And for this reason, they must hit again in the late rounds with the same effectiveness when McLoughan was here. You cannot go forward without depth anymore. Injuries must be expected. Getting this depth is harder now because everyone is copying them. But they must do it. As trevor stated in the previous thread, the lost drafts of 2013 and 2014 are really costing this team in the present.

      • LeoSharp

        It’s mainly the 2013 class.from the 2014 class Britt, Marsh, Richardson and Gilliam have all had good games this year plus Coyle and KPL are core special teamers.

    • C-Dog

      Injuries can’t be the excuse, but they certainly played a big role. Think what this team might have gotten out of a healthy CJ Prosise for most of the season. Quinton Jefferson beat out Jordan Hill in training camp, I would have to imagine they were banking on his inside rush. I think were players they were kinda counting on as rookies and young players that really didn’t get much of a chance to make the desired impact. I was really a rough start right out of the gate and plagued all season long. That’s why I wouldn’t consider this season as that much of a disappointment in the end.

      • LeoSharp

        There was also the injury to Gilliam that set him back before the season started. Probably the biggest reason Sowell was ever a LT

    • Dumbquestions

      This point on injuries matters far more than all the other stuff, as far as I’m concerned.

      • AlaskaHawk

        I agree, that list is longer then I would have thought. Seeing all those injuries makes the return to the playoffs miraculous. And we did beat Detroit, I thought they were pretty well rounded this year with both passing and decent defense.

        I don’t think people give Atlanta the respect they deserve. Great offense and a decent defense. They would be a tough opponent even if are team was playing well.

  20. Hawk22Fun

    It is time for FRESH blood on the offensive staff.

    Thank you Darrell Bevell for your time, but we need to go in a new direction. For that matter, I hope SF hires Tom Cable. His O-line theory is now out dated and not working. We drafted TWO TACKLES…1st round Ifedi, RT…and 3rd R Odhiambho LT, and play neither at either position! WTH???

    They made some early mistakes, and that cost this team.
    Resign Marcel Reece, and let Bevell/Cable GO!!!

    Imagine if we hired NORV TURNER. What could he do with Jimmy, Russell, Baldwin and PRich!!! #NorvTheAnswer

    • cyrus

      I agree with bringing in norv but i dont see them cutting loose bevel if we cand get him as a quaterback coach that would be amazing for our downfield passing game with the speed we have at receiver.

      • Rob Staton

        Norv Turner — the guy who walked out on Minnesota because he didn’t get his own way?

        • cyrus

          good point

  21. John_s

    I remember back during the Super Bowl years there was always talk about the “Seahawk after effect” where teams would lose the game after they played the Seahawks.

    Where has that defense gone? The core of those players are here but it feels like they may have peaked and the amount of games they have played the last 4-5 years has caught up to them.

    It’s time to draft the next generation of LOBers. They have a piece in Clark, hopefully Reed has a 2nd year bump but then they need some young safeties to push Kam and Earl (give me Budda), a CB who can become Sherms replacement. Fast LB’s to eventually take over for KJ and the Sam position

  22. Trevor

    As a fan it is hard to look at your team objectively after they have been so badly beaten in almost all phases of the game.

    Hopefully I will wake up tomorrow with a fresh outlook and start prepping for the draft season with a positive outlook because this really sucks.

    Wish we had the Browns or Titans picks instead of our own this year.

    • Volume12

      Shrine game weigh UN’s, measurements, practices start this week!

      • Trevor

        Can’t wait there are always some gems at the Shrine. Glasgow, Onemayta and Hargraeve really popped there last year.

  23. Seatown

    I’ll never understand how the front office decided they would go into this season with that offensive line. Border line criminal. Wasted a year.

    • Frank

      And with Staley and Thomas more than likely available. Negligent, indefensible, border line criminal. “The ego is the enemy”

      • 75franks

        “The ego is the enemy” agree

      • Ed

        Sounds like the lawyer from Seinfeld

    • Daniel Bryan

      I’m not sure you realize how awful offensive line play is across the entire league. Was Seattle’s line a weakness this year? Yes it was but you could easily say that about almost every other team. Credit Seattle for resurrecting Justin Britt’s career. Credit Seattle for getting a physical talent line Germain Ifedi so late in the first round when OL always tends to get pushed up drafts. Seattle didn’t even have the worst offensive line in the league. So often giving an offensive line time to grow is what really helps that unit become good.

      • Volume12

        Yeah, they’ll grow from this. With that said, we need an upgrade on the O-line.

      • Frank

        Ifedi hasn’t proved himself yet, raw player all year that d lines identify as the prime weakness to exploit late in games, even ahead of someone like Fant or Giliam.

        Credit Seattle for going into the season with a visible weakness and not correcting it, again. Need to find some middle ground between spending a lot of cap on OL, and going total cheapskate.

        Britt I’ll admit was a very pleasant surprise.

      • lil'stink

        Saying OL play is down across the league is accurate, but it also sounds like a cop out. We had arguably the worst OL in the entire league. Simply being league average would have been a big improvement. While PCJS have succeeded in so many areas they have completely failed at building an OL.

        • Kenny Sloth

          We also have one of the youngest and cheapest and most explosive OL in the league <3

      • Seatown

        Icefish stunk. Fant stunk. Glo was mediocre. GG mediocre. Britt was good. Sowell was hot garbage. Shame on JS for eating a year in a SB window.

      • sdcoug

        i watch way too much football. Sure, other QBs get sacked occassionally, but most also routinely have several seconds to throw the ball. We do not. Of course, having an OC that insists on 5-7 step drops doesn’t help

  24. negative neil

    Well the Hawks have nobody to blame but them selves. They did not take care of business against he Cardinals and secure the game in Seattle. Although I don’t know if the outcome would have been much different. It is so discouraging to see the lack of discipline, year in and year out. So many penalties ruining big plays over the years. The game turned on the penalty on Hester’s return and ensuing safety. That is on Carroll. He never has had control of the team in a Belichick way. I also thought RW looked out of shape this year, and he certainly was huffing at the end of the 4th qtr. All we can do is hope for meaningfull changes and better conditioning nest year.

  25. Trevor

    This off seasons needs in order of importance for me.

    1) One quality Veteran OL to add to this young group and help them develop. Choice #1 Zeitler (get him) I know he is a RG and it sucks to give a big $ deal but just do it.

    2) A legit quality CB opposite Sherm with a focus on a guy who has good ball skills and can turn the ball over. He is going to be targeted a lot think about how many picks Maxi had opposite Sherm. Choice #1 Sid Jones, #2 Adoree Jackson, #3 Kevin King

    3) Interior Pass Rusher- Not a tweener like Bennett who moves inside on 3rd down. I mean a legit DT who can collapse the pocket. Choice #1 Calais Campbell, Choice #2 Dontari Poe, Choice #3 Malik Mcdowell

    Side note how nice would Chris Jones look on this DL.

    • LordSnow

      Getting Zeitler would be like getting a top 10 pick, because you’d lock down a spot with a high end starter and flipping Ifedi to tackle would kill two birds with one stone.

      • Trevor

        Exactly my thoughts.

        Then you can add young fast defensive talent in the draft.

      • lil'stink

        The thing about Ifedi is that he was quite bad this year. Our RT situation was also quite bad, yet the kept Ifedi at guard. No hint of trying him at RT. Does anyone think he showed anything to believe he has a chance to start at RT next year? We all knew this was going to be a season learning for GI so I understand why they didn’t move him to RT. But right now I have very little confidence in him (although I’m still hopeful).

        • LordSnow

          But he’s a first round pick. He’s going to be playing somewhere on that line. If you don’t believe that, look how long they spun Justin Britt until they found a position he excelled at, and he’s a second rounder..

          Ifedi is part of the future going forward, and all projections and thought processes should have that in mind.

        • Mac

          Ifedi would be better than Gilliam at RT but than who would of been our right guard? Sometimes you just have to get your best five out there. I hope we have a new LT, odhiahmbo, j Britt, zeitler, ifedi. Or really anything to fix our line.

          • RealRhino2

            Why couldn’t Glowinski stay at RG where he played last year while Odhiambo manned LG?

    • Volume12

      These teams that miss out the playoffs, for example Denver this year, they know what their needs are. We know what the needs are this year. Past couple years they’ve been somewhat blurred.

    • C-Dog

      I’m definitely starting to think they might go aggressively for some veteran help on the OL. Carroll alluded them being interested in Mack last year but were priced out. With a little extra FA $s this year, they might make a play on someone.

    • vrtkolman

      Chris Jones instead of Ifedi and sticking with Jahri Evans would have made this team better this year.

      • Trevor

        This is a certainty.

  26. Volume12

    Kam Chancellor really sums it up. The offense except for 2 games gave this points to win. But, he said they lost composure on the defensive side and need to cut out ‘wasted energy.’ Defense got outside themselves.

    • Trevor

      Sherm was a big reason for that this year. Not sure what was going on with him. He is being counted on to lead that group and was a distraction more often than not. He is a great player but I hope he gets his head on straight this off season. Those young guys look up to him, Kam, Bennett.

      We Sherm back engaged next year as a positive voice not a distracting one. I think it will be a huger emphasis of Petes this off season as I can tell he is not pleased with Sherm.

      • Trevor

        huge not huger

        • Daniel Bryan


    • Seatown

      Over paid fat cats living on reputation. 2013 is over.

    • C-Dog

      I loved his comments, and as a fan, appreciated his candor. One thing that’s bothered me a bit this year has been some of the sore play from some of the defenders. IMO, this game was not lost by the offense, and I think it might be some of the guys on that defense that could use a little self reflection this offseason. Bravo, Kam.

  27. Mac

    Personally I think we need Joe Mixon, Tre’Davious White, kevin king, Shalom Luani, Calais Campbell, o-linemen from free agency. Say what you want about Joe Mixon but that kid is to talented not to pick up on day three. Tre’Davious White is shorter than you’d like but I think his game is underrated.

    • Trevor

      Definitely a good group of guys. If they added King and Luani in Rd #3 that would be ideal to reload on the backend. There are a ton of great DB options in this draft. The best DB class I have seen yet.

      • Mac

        If we could get king, luani and white. I would be glad! We could inject some talented youth back into our team. Our defense looked very tired and old ml

        • Juju

          I am fully onboard with Mixon, but where is the sweet spot?

          I still want to address DT / LB / S

          This is assuming we sign a OL

    • LordSnow

      So, I’m not saying they should do this but since it’s been discussed in many previous posts:

      If you do something outlandish, sell the draft for Fournette or Cook, you are taking a huge gamble that the player is an immeidate plug in superstar, and you can live with potentially losing two or three lesser players, but starters, and the depth, with the picks you’d be giving up.

      But if you are willing to risk that, then take the risk on character and draft Mixon, thereby getting your top 10 talent and keeping the other draft capital.

      Sorry, I’m frustrated with the game, so still rambling, but this blog helps get it out of me.

      • Mac

        I know how you feel, I’m more or less the only one of my friends with a solid understanding of the game except one bud but hes more into college football. I think Mixon is every bit worth the risk, if it works out you’ll get a supremely talented back with speed, explosiveness, great vision. I don’t believe it is as much of a worry about character as it it about a ‘media’ sh!t storm. It’s a ton of temporary bad PR

        • LordSnow

          Again, I’m not saying to do this (it would depend upon the interview process, old coaches, more evidence, etc) and they would have to risk the PR nightmare. I’ve stated before I don’t want Mixon. But the subject is raised and it will be an option for a rb needy team like us.

          With that said, how often is Frank Clark protested anymore? Nowhere that I know.

          The first WOW type run that he has in a regular season game, fans sitting there in silence would turn to cheers.

          We know Mixon will play somewhere in the NFL. Someone will take the risk with the PR. Again, it isn’t me, but we have to admit that in the end, we care more about the football on the field and hope our players are nice people in real life – but we still care more about the football on the field.

          If he has changed, and the interview process reveals he’s not a horrible woman beater, a way to diffuse some of it would be to reserve a mid to late round pick for him, and if someone picks him before that, then so be it. But if it’s not a high pick not garnering the same attention, I would think it would lessen the PR a bit.

          • Fairlawn

            I remember Matt Taibbi’s NFL draft decoder series for the Rolling Stone years ago where he counseled GMs to always draft “the weed guy” — the college stud who slipped in the draft because of pot (Warren Sapp, Randy Moss …)

            Kinda wonder if that’s where we are on the DV guy — not saying that everyone is or should be comfortable with it, but from a value perspective? Clark should not even have been available to us late in the 2nd round. Tyreek Hill in the 5th? Mixon as a day 3 or UDFA?

            I appreciate your juxtaposition of the “risk capital”. Hadn’t viewed it in that light before but I like that perspective. (Also because it’s 2017, nobody should do blockbuster trade-ups for RBs.)

            • LordSnow

              The football fan in me (that likes to watch elite athletes) LOVES Mixon. The emotional human in me hates what he’s done. Milton Bradley on the M’s was someone I never could cheer for. He was garbage as a human.

              We never know a person, really. When Michael Jordan was a superstar, I loved him as did everyone else. We’re find out long after his retirement, he’s really not a nice human being. Not a great person at all. Really a rich dirtbag who is entitled, knows he’s entitled, and lives as he’s entitled. We’ve seen that about Sapp. He’s a nasty man. Ben Rothlisberger? I still think he raped that girl in that bathroom. I really do. No proof, but circumstances and understanding how that entitled crowd behaves.

              On the converse, so far so good on Frank Clark. It’s early, but we’ve moved on from him.

              So we have to trust the interview process, and then JS has to decide how much PR he’s willing to risk. Early on, sounds like he’s writing Mixon off.

              • AlaskaHawk

                It happened in 2014, almost 3 years ago. There won’t be much of a media firestorm or pr issue over these old events. He served his court appointed sentence and now deserves a chance to play in his chosen profession. Lets just get over it, as fans we don’t get to repeatedly punish someone for past issues. Not unless the reoccur.

                • Fairlawn

                  I do agree with this – this is what the court system is for. Punish in that context, and when punishment is done, it is done. Having a league commissioner be an ad hoc backup judge in the court of public opinion is problematic for numerous reasons.

                  I know it is far from consensus, but personally I was not troubled by the Clark pick and would not be troubled by Mixon

                • LordSnow

                  That’s not the reality though. If seattle acquires him with a high pick, there will be a PR nightmare to deal with. This is a sensitive society. People won’t let it go.

                  If Schneider decides he’s a changed man, he paid the price, etc, he will have to mitigate the PR that will follow. And there will be PR, let’s be realistic.

                  If it’s a high pick, the tape will get played and talked about over and over. If it’s a low pick, I think they can talk it thru and lessen it as a “person deserves a second chance, he’s not a big impact to us if he doesn’t work out.” But let’s not pretend that the public will simply forget it and move on. That won’t happen unless a passage of time in the pros where he stays clean – and produces.

              • Juju

                Yes he made a mistake.

                When you are struck in the face there is an instinctive response that is triggered in your brain.

                Personally I think both parties are equally guilty and should both be going through therapy. If we are for equal rights then equal punishment should be handed out.

                • Kelly


                  Yes, she should not have hit him at all, but him hitting her was like a grown up hitting a 8 year old, that is the difference between a grown ass football player and an average size girl. He had a welt, she had her jaw wired shut…see the difference???

    • daniel

      What happened to White Rob? Last year you had him as a potential top ten pick and this year you have him going in the second. Is it just the talent of this draft, did he put out some bad tape this year, did he get injured, something else?

      • Rob Staton

        I still like him a lot. Just not much buzz for some reason, within a loaded class of DB’s. That said, I always thought Eli Apple would go top-10 last year and dropped him because of a lack of buzz too. So we’ll see what happens.

  28. Nathan

    Rob, what did you think of Grady Jarrett in the draft?

    Went in the 5th.

    TEF of 3.39

    15 defensive hurries on the year, 1 behind C Campbell and 2 behind K Short.

    • Trevor

      He was a favorite of Robs and some others here that draft season if I remember correctly.

      • lil'stink

        Jarrett fell to the 5th. We chose Terry Poole in the 4th instead. Although, to be fair, perhaps PCJS just weren’t interested in him. I think he could have been the interior rusher that we still don’t have. Of course signing Calais Campbell would take that disappointment away 🙂

        • Nathan

          I’ve been looking around a few other sbnation sites.

          It seems every fan base thinks they’re signing calais campbell.

          Might be a bit of wishful thinking on our part.

          • Juju

            I thought I saw a young Mebane in Jarett. I thought he was a 3-4th rd talent

    • Rob Staton

      Liked him. Thought he was an option for Seattle in round two:

  29. Cysco

    dropped this in the wrong thread so reposting here:

    What this game confirms for me is that the NFL has changed. The old adage of “defense wins championships” is no longer true. Look at the remaining teams in the playoffs with a legit chance of winning it all

    Defense DVOA 2016 Rank
    ATL – 27
    NEP – 16
    DAL – 17
    GB – 20
    PIT – 11
    KC – 14

    Offensive DVOA 2016 Rank

    ATL – 1
    NEP – 2
    DAL – 3
    GB – 4
    PIT – 8
    KC – 13

    Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see a trend there. To win in today’s NFL you need an elite offense and an OK defense. Seattle has been built to have a high DVOA on defense and a below average DVOA on offense. If this team is going to compete going forward, they either need a defense that is so elite that it can stop the top-4 offenses in the league or they need to seriously improve the offense.

    I would argue that no Seattle defense over the last 5-years would have stopped that Atlanta attack today. So rather than talking about silly stuff like trading Jimmy Graham, perhaps we should discuss how we could possibly get the Seattle offense into the top 5 in offensive DVOA next season. Investing even more resources into the defense is not going to get us back to the super bowl.

    • Rob Staton

      Maybe — but let’s not forget Denver won the last Super Bowl purely because of defense.

      • Cysco

        Things change fast in the NFL though. There wasn’t a single top-10 DVOA defense this year that had any real chance of getting to the super bowl. I think that’s going to be a trend that continues. Offenses are getting so good and innovative. There isn’t a defense in the league that would have stopped ATL today.

        Today’s NFL is about dynamic offensive production. Something Seattle lacks.

        I would be shocked if that DAL/GB game tomorrow isn’t anything other than a high scoring affair, probably won by the team with the ball last.

        • Nolan

          Lol is it a trend if it happens one time? And if the NFL changes as quick as you say then it would be impossible to build a team. This year let build out offense can d only needs to be okay but next year d will be trending so we scrap our offense and go to our D. If trends are shifting dramatically as you say then you double down on your philosophy and you make sure you do it best that can be done. If you chase trends you end up on the back half of them all.

    • LordSnow

      That would mean getting the running game fixed, then, because wasn’t our offense in the top 5 last year in DVOA?

      So now we’re back to the oline again, and one other runner.

      • Cysco

        Yes, SEA was #1 in offensive DVOA I believe.

    • Volume12

      Stop them? No. Slow them down or limit some of the possessions to FGs? Yes.

      • LeoSharp

        Pretty sure Earl Thomas is the difference between TD’s and FG’s. A Free safety who may end up in the HoF.

        • Volume12


      • Cysco

        That’s my point. There’s no stopping an offense like that. A fully healthy seattle defense as the roster sits now probably slows it down, but you still need to out score them.

        The SEA offense as currently constructed had no chance of out scoring ATL today.

        I feel the goal for the team should be to try and keep the defense in the top 5-8 in defense next year and return the offense back to top-5

        • Dumbquestions

          I have my doubts about this thesis re defense no longer winning championships, but will address it more specifically further down.

  30. Trevor

    Last thing before I go drown my sorrows.

    This defense just looks different when Kam and Earl are on the feild at the same time. It has been all to rare an occurrence the last two years.

    I really hope those two can get healthy this off season and give it one more good run next year because when they are both healthy and together they make this whole defence light years better.

  31. Steele

    This team is a far cry from the 2012-2013 model. That was a superior talent team that used to intimidate, smashmouth, and stop opponents completely cold on defense (upfront as well as in secondary). This team used to DICTATE on both offense and defense.

    With the current version, better teams dictate to them. The veterans are older and steps slower. Even if fully stocked with ET, the results probably would not have been too different. I think it is a combination of age, lack of new ideas, less hunger, and, yes, less talent. Average to above average doesn’t cut it. They need more playmakers at RB, WR. The o-line just isn’t good, Russ was, as usual, running for his life all day (and we are sick of it, aren’t we). The pass rush didn’t get to Ryan, the banged up secondary wasn’t a factor.

    Everything from overall identity to coaching to personnel must be scrutinized. Whatever is “same old” must be upgraded and seriously improved. I think JS should do some bigger things this spring, because they need it.

    Cable is talking to the 49ers tomorrow. Could he be gone? It is time once again to find a better OC than Bevell. Richard isn’t impressive either.

    I have always believed that Quinn was a key component, and the job he is doing with Atlanta confirms it. This was a bad matchup for Seattle because of Quinn. The Falcons are damned good, look a lot like the old Seahawks. Freeman reminds eerily me of Lynch (wish the Hawks had someone like him), and Freeman/Coleman is a hell of a tandem. The Falcons D, underrated, kicked ass today. What a pass rush. They hit hard, play fast, like the Hawks used to.

    We have been talking about a multi-year championship window in here for a long time. Problem is, it appears that the window might have closed with the SB loss to the Patriots. That is why that near-win is so painful. For many reasons they have failed to maintain and upgrade in the offseasons since. They once got away with predictability because they had superior talent and athleticism and ridiculous intangibles—but there has been erosion in these things with time, lost talent without fully replacing or improving on what was lost, and still haven’t fixed the predictability (Bevell, etc.)

    This has been a frustrating season that ended on a frustrating note. The result was not a surprise.

    • Volume12

      Disagree about the window. I think they’re in the middle of it.

      • Trevor

        agree Vol they just need some key pieces and some quality young depth. I think some guys like Elliot, Vannett, Q Jeff and Prosise can play a big role next year.

        • Volume12

          Fix the O-line, add one more piece to the offense, a D-lineman, and a DB. They can take care of 2 needs in FA.

          • Volume12

            I do agree about Quinn being a big loss. Love the way he rotates his D-lineman.

      • C-Dog

        I agree that the Seahawks are in the middle of their window. So many key players still in their twenties.

    • LordSnow

      Admittedly I still think about the sb loss. I just can’t get over it. I wish I could, but the vision still sits there.

      Sometimes people stay with a team too long. I always felt that with Holmgren for example, the game had passed him by and the WCO had been figured out. 2005 was his last hurrah. We didn’t think so for a few years while Holmy was still here. We thought there was still some magic because Hasselbeck was at the peak of his career and I think was able to overcome how much defenses were adjusting to Holmy’s system.

      It is possible that PC has been figured out. Hell, the whole league has copied their model for db’s and explosive playmakers. We’ll see on this because he isn’t going anywhere. Only time will tell. But it is also possible for players and coaches to become stale and need a change of scenery. The challenge will be, at least starting in the offseason after this one, to identify who needs that change.

      I think they make one more attempt at the sb with the current squad with a few additions and expectations for health.

    • sdcoug

      the best post i have ever read from you Steele

  32. Trevor

    Let’s just draft Huskies with our 4 picks in the first 3 rounds

    -Sid Jones
    – E Qualls
    -Kevin King
    – Joe Mathis

    • Trevor

      Sorry meant to say B Baker in Rd #1 as I think Jones will be gone. Use him in the slot and and King out wide opposite Sherm.

      • dylanlep

        And bierria and vea next yr lol

    • Rob Staton

      It’s not a bad idea TBH…

      • Trevor

        They fit the scheme perfectly.

        • Volume12

          Would be shocked if they didn’t add someone from that defense. In their own backyard, talented, and as you said, scheme fits.

    • rowdy

      I wouldn’t be mad at all with this

    • C-Dog

      Yeah, I wouldn’t complain of this draft.

    • AlaskaHawk

      Lets take Coleman as a running back in the late rounds.

  33. Trevor

    The light sure has come on for Clowney. He is a beast right now. He and Watt together will be sick next year. Russ must be cringing already at the thought of playing them next year.

  34. Totem_Hawk

    1. Jimmy Graham & Michael Bennett should never have been put on the same football team. Trade or cut Graham
    2. Sign LT Andrew Whitworth to a 2 yr deal.
    3. Draft a couple DB’s (before the 5th round)
    4. Extend Kam
    5. Chemistry, Chemistry, Chemistry.. The Seahawks don’t have it right now, and need to identify and correct this disjointed team..something is definitely off and JC/PS need to get it fixed…

    • Rob Staton

      If you trade or cut Graham, you have to replace him.

      Good luck finding a better TE.

      • rowdy

        This is still a thing? With a better oline graham would be smashing seahawks records.

        • LeoSharp

          He has been

      • Totem_Hawk

        We shall see what happens…

      • RealRhino2

        Goal isn’t to find the best TE, it’s to field the best team.

        • Rob Staton

          And how exactly are you fielding the best team by removing one of the best players in the NFL and replacing him with someone who isn’t?

        • Totem_Hawk

          RealRhino2 that’s my point exactly. Since the Unger/Graham trade is the demarcation point in the identity loss of the team..

          • Rob Staton

            It’s not really though is it. They swapped an ageing center for an explosive TE — and have spent two years fitting said TE into their system, not adapting to him.

            The loss of identity is more associated with the departure of Marshawn Lynch.

            • Totem_Hawk

              Good point…

            • LordSnow

              They actually traded a first rounder for Graham. Unger for a 4th. Two separate trades done together per Danny Oneill

              • Rob Staton

                Well yes, but announced as one. I was speaking really in the context of the overall shift.

                • daniel

                  Jimmy caught 6 of Russell’s 21 touchdown throws this year and almost 1000 out of russell’s 4200 yards or so passing this season, not to mention being a good blocker with room to grow.

                  • Mishima

                    No one is arguing that Jimmy Graham isn’t a dynamic, explosive playmaker.

                    If you look at game stats instead of season stats, you get a better picture of JG’s use/impact/consistency. He had a number of good games, but 9 games with 4 receptions or less: 2 games with 4 rec.; 3 games with 3 rec.; 1 game with 2 rec.; 3 games with 1 rec. He had 6 TD receptions for the year.

                    Without an OL, JG’s amazing talent is just a wasted luxury on this team.

                    The Seahawks can replace his production (65 rec/923 yards/6 TDs) with an improved offensive line and running game.

                    To be clear, I think JG is a phenom talent, but bad fit on this roster, in this scheme.

      • 75franks

        you cant find a better tight end but it is kinda funny that:

        1.after JG got hurt last year the offense took off.
        2.before jimmy got here the tight end position was an after thought on offense (even with a good TE on the roster).

        • Totem_Hawk

          Great point about how the offense took off last year after JG injury. Unfortunate as it was it seemed to free Russell up from having to force targets JG’s way and the offense took off.
          A strong blocking TE could give the Hawks 400-500 yards and 5 TD’s and help the oline and run game much more than JG.
          The other issue is what to do with Jermaine Kearse. A great guy and Seahawk but he just doesn’t get seperation from DB’s anymore and his production went off a cliff..

          • Totem_Hawk

            To be fair saying Kearse’s production went off a cliff isn’t totally accurate but losing his starting job and only 1 TD is a very rough year for him.

        • Rob Staton

          The offense took off before Graham’s injury.

          See: Pittsburgh home game.

          • Totem_Hawk

            The Pittsburgh game was the turning point last year and Jimmy played well in that game before he hurt his knee. I do recall he was out for the rest of the season while the Seahawk offense went ballistic without him. Cutting JG would free up 10 million to get LT Andrew Whitworth. I know he is old but free agency is used to plug holes and LT is a huge hole…love the debate, perhaps i’m off base. I’m still upset with the season. Your article is great Rob!

            • LordSnow

              I debated this issue of cutting Graham with Rob a bunch of threads ago. I don’t believe it will happen, nor do I want it because I love Graham and believe he can be part of the sb solution going forward, and really, I’m more interested in the sb than playoff appearances. This current group is in that window, and then when it’s gone, we will long for these days where we talked about tweeking it here and there.

              But I was responding to his post on Josina Anderson about FA as the solution, and was thinking about where the money will come from.

              Interestingly, Sheil Kapadia’s first article after the loss yesterday also talks about cutting Graham. I don’t think it’s as farfetched as people believe.

              I hope that is wrong. But I’m mentally preparing myself as a fan in case it does.

          • AlaskaHawk

            My two cents worth is that the Seahawks don’t emphasize tight end passes the way a team like New England does. Sure they talk about having a team with two tight ends and all the exciting plays they could make, but deep down they don’t utilize the tight ends the way they could.

            Now that could be because of blocking duties this year. There is also something else going on. Wilson has had stretches where he relied on Graham, but going down the stretch it was not as much. Could this be because of a culture of looking for the wide receivers first? Baldwin is a great target, and the years they had both Baldwin and Tate they were an awesome weapon – so that is understandable. Is it a reluctance to throw short passes in the middle? Maybe because Wilson doesn’t get a clear lane to throw in or can’t see the near targets easily. Is it a lack on emphasis on tight end passes, or perhaps just a lack of play design? There is a giant question mark on pass play design with this offense. It feels like whatever tight end they plug in will not be consistently used in the passing game.

            REally would like one more wide receiver playing opposite Baldwin, with strong hands to catch the ball. That would be a great dual threat, as is the emergence of RIchardson. And yes it could be a tight end like Njoku if that is who is available.

          • 75franks

            i just don’t know if we need him. grahams probably the best red zone target in the game yet how many targets does he get. thats has to be so frustrating for him. its like telling marshawn not to run over anyone. JG should make this team much better but he doesn’t seem to make an impact on a regular basis. i don’t think its JG fault but if your not gonna take advantage of his skill set is he worth 9 million a year.

            • Mac

              Are you serious? Or trolling ? lol where are you going to find an elite tight end on such a good budget? lol should we cut Graham and resign Luke Wilson for 5-6 mil? last year our offense took off because of both better performance on the o line and a cake walk schedule. If we had an average o line, and a good running back, he would have have 12 to 15 TDs. Without JJ we were a Doug Baldwin injury away from being trash on offense.

              • 75franks

                If we had an average o line, and a good running back, he would have have 12 to 15 TDs.

                if ifs and buts were like candy and nuts then wed all have a merry Christmas.

                fwiw I love JG and think hes great I’m just saying maybe his 9 mill would be better spent elsewhere. especially since we don’t utilize him very well. and don’t forget we won the superbowl w/o him or any real te production.

              • 75franks

                also they should not resign betty luke.

            • Rob Staton

              It’s not really a case of needing him or not though. Right now the Seahawks have, rightly or wrongly, one of the best TE’s/players in the NFL. Cutting him to spend his reasonable salary on someone of lesser quality IMO would be the most bizarre move they can make.

              They have the cap room to improve key areas on the team. And if they move Graham — they still have to replace him. Vance McDonald cost San Fran $7m a year. It’s not a good market to go chasing/creating a TE need.

              • 75franks

                i get your point. but i disagree about it not being a good year for chasing TEs. isn’t this a good draft for TEs. I’m just looking at all the options to improve this team and if that means JG has to go then so be it. now don’t get me wrong if we can fill the needs we have with everything as is then that’s great too, i would love to keep him. just keeping the options open. go hawks

                • Rob Staton

                  It’s a good draft for TE’s — but would you want to pass on a impact defensive player just to try and replace Jimmy Graham (one of the best TE’s in the league already).

  35. Hawktalker

    Rob, another was well written summary. I appreciate your frankness about the situation, the weaknesses of the team and what they need to do to make the needed changes, something we all very much want.

    I’m sure you’ve got better things to do than to follow my specific comments, but I discuss and feel very passionate about how big a difference it would make to have just a serviceable or average OL?

    Would you mind providing your opinion on what it would take to get Seattle there?

    Are you comfortable calling out what appeared to be a specific individual weaknesses on the OL and your take on the best way to get them to a place that would give Seattle what it needs?

    Appreciate all you do.

    • Rob Staton

      I think it’s difficult. O-line guys are likely going to be paid extreme amounts this year with a great demand for good O-liners. It’d be nice to consider getting one or two veteran’s — but is it realistic? I haven’t got an answer for that unfortunately. They’re not really in a position to spend really big for ‘decent’ or ‘average’. They either have to go for the best out there or look elsewhere.

      Equally it isn’t a great draft for OL’s in terms of depth. You might get a good one in the middle rounds — but Seattle’s not had much success with O-liners in that range.

      It’s a real dilemma. I suspect they will possibly give this group a chance to grow with improved competition — but that will make a lot of people upset.

      • Volume12

        Tough position. Ya gotta think one reason why PC wants to roll with this group is because he knows this position will be overpaid and is not great in tens of talent draft wise. 1 more piece would sure be nice.

        Question for ya. Even though he was banged up, was it just me, or did Gilliam hold up well vs Beasley?

        • Trevor

          Gilliam had a solid game once again I thought. Not great but against the leading sack guy in the league he held up pretty well I thought.

      • Hawk Eye

        I tend to agree that they want this o line to stay and grow together.
        if they play better next year, they look like geniuses.
        I think that is risky. yes, they should be a little better just by being a year older and I don’t think another rookie on the o line is a good idea with Britt being the oldest guy and going into his 4th year.
        I doubt they can get Zeitler or Wagner or even Whitworth. Too many other teams have more cap space and at least 20 o lines need to be upgraded.
        And if they don’t look like geniuses next year for keeping the band together, we witnessed all year what happens if they get it wrong.

  36. GerryG

    As many mistakes as they made, the team had a chance to stay in it. Both of the FGs they settled for could have been TDs. Russ just missed Baldwin on what could have been a TD.

    He missed a lot of those throws this year. If he makes those plays today, they are in a shootout and a chance. He had a down year for obvious reasons, he will come back.

    As far as the D they need some young playmakers to mix in. But getting Earl back is huge. Remember what happened to the Colts and Steelers when Bob Sanders or Troy Polumalu went down back in the 00’s? Same thing with Earl, it’s just not the same.

    • Volume12

      100% agree. They really have no one to blame but themselves. Your right. They missed a bunch of opportunities.

      Question. Was that throw to Baldwin in the end zone or Jimmy?

      RW is hurried 17 times on 34 dropbacks? He was hurt, one of the worst O-lines in the league, no run game, and without ET. Yet, a 2nd round playoff exit. He’s amassing man.

      We ain’t going anywhere anytime soon. Unless 3 years or so is soon.

      They can’t keep going away from the run on 1st & 2nd. We’ve seen over the years and last week what that 50/50 balance does. And its not on Bevell either.

      • Volume12

        And with JS at GM, I beleive he’ll help fix some of the issues.

        • Hawk Eye

          I think going away from the run on 2nd down tends to happen when you take a 3 yard loss on first.
          Hard to run when the d meets you at the hand off.

      • Seahawcrates

        I thought the throw was to Graham.

  37. Coleslaw

    A list of corners this year. multiple will fall to us in the first and second rounds
    Marlon Humphrey, Quincy Wilson, Marshon Lattimore, Adoree Jackson, Sidney Jones, Gareon Conley, Jalen Tabor, Desmond King, Cordrea Tankersley, Tre’Davious White, Jourdan Lewis, Cameron Sutton, Kevin King. This is the year we could find a real player to stick opposite Sherm.

    • Totem_Hawk

      Excited to see how these players grade out at the combine! A lot of DB talent this year.

      • Coleslaw

        Same! I feel like most of these guys will perform above average. Marshon Lattimore is my guy! I think he’s gonna blow it up and have the best vertical of all corners

        • Totem_Hawk

          Daniel Jeremiah from says Lattimore the guy who looked best on tape. I can’t recall a draft this deep at the position. Feeling confident in the Hawks putting together a real good draft!

    • Juju

      still high on breon borders

  38. vrtkolman

    Reports are Bennett went ballistic and threatned a reporter after the game. Rumors are he gouged a Falcon’s linemen’s eyes during the game, and from the highlights that looks to be true. This team really needs a shakeup somewhere.

    • LordSnow

      This whole season seems out of control to me. It started with all the national anthem BLM stuff, and then some kind of bitter anger that started to come out on the sidelines and in games.

    • C-Dog

      Wow. That explains Kam Chancellor’s post game remarks. That’s really unfortunate.

    • nichansen01

      Bennett needs to go. Distraction.

      • Tien

        He’s still our best DL so I disagree, ask him to control his emotions and reactions better but you don’t trade away talent like this if you want to improve the team.

  39. SeaTown

    I love what PC has done in his time in Seattle but I’m not sure if he truly understands where this team is at. In his ATL press conference he said multiple times that this does not feel like it is the end of something, which came across as him trying to convince himself that it isn’t the end. He also mentioned that his message to the team was about profound leadership and about the great connection between the guys. Is he serious? Fights on the sideline, Sherman calling out offensive coaches, Kam saying how the D go outside themselves. This is the sign of profound leadership? This is the sign of a great connection? Wow. Delusional on the part of PC. Wow.

    • vrtkolman

      I’m still not sure if this team ever got over Superbowl 49.

      • KingRajesh

        One of the many reasons we should scapegoat Bevell and allow everyone to move on.

    • LordSnow

      I don’t know if he really believes that. But he’s all about being positive so he’ll never give up that theme.

      I don’t see how he could look at this season as a huge success from their perspective being in a super bowl window. If this were the Browns, then yes, but this is a team every other team in the league still marks on their preseason calendar when they play us.

      I’ve learned to tune out his press conferences. Russell too. It’s Kevin Costner coaching Tim Robbins in Bull Durham time when those two talk.

    • C-Dog

      Keep in mind that he is seeing stuff that we aren’t. This is still a young roster with many core members in their twenties. I trust Pet has a better read on his team than the fans do.

  40. LeoSharp

    The Seahawks have more play makers on offense than the falcons. I would not be surprised if they were a top 10 offense next year provided they have a consistent running game and everyone stays healthy.


    And if you want to argue that Doug isn’t as good as Julio then he’s at least comparable to Antonio Brown. Russel Wilson targeting Doug Baldwin is the second best QBR behind only Gronk and Brady. The rank is total yardage receiving. Also Lockett will probably better than Baldwin in a few years.

    Rk Player Team Pos Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st 1st% FUM

    5 Antonio Brown PIT WR 106 1,284 12.1 85.6 51 12 22 3 64 60.4 0
    11 Doug Baldwin SEA WR 94 1,128 12.0 70.5 59 7 16 5 52 55.3 1
    106 Tyler Lockett SEA WR 41 597 14.6 39.8 57T 1 9 3 22 53.7 0

  41. SeaTown

    Watching RW press conference. Forced positivity. Doesn’t come across as sincere. This isn’t ATL circa 2012 no matter how hard he tries to convince himself.

    • Rob Staton

      That’s who he is though. Russell is always on message. Pete is that way too. Nothing really to be gained by acting any other way today immediately after the game.

    • C-Dog

      I’m not so sure that it’s forced at all. I think that’s just the way he is.

  42. LeoSharp

    Losing Cable to the 49es would be terrible. Who would you actually replace him with?

    • nichansen01

      I would love to lose cable

      • LeoSharp

        What would be the benefit to that move. Who’s better than him

        • KingRajesh

          Literally anybody. The Patriots found D Scar in a retirement home and he rejuvenated their line and turned busts into studs. Throw $2-4 million at somebody and you could get some talent.

          • LeoSharp

            Didn’t Cable do the same to Britt.
            He has turned Fant and Gilliam into tackles who can play well enough in a vacuum that you could scheme around them if the rest of the line played well also he turned Sweezy into a 6 mil per year player.
            Everyone on this years line has had good games just not all at the same time.

            • GerryG

              Look at Tom Cable’s career ATL>OAK>SEA running Lines/offense. I believe he has never once had a team better than mid-20’s in pass blocking.

              A change in scheme, and changing up whoever is in charge of OL scouting could not hurt imo

              • LeoSharp

                What are you looking at to create that trend? The trend in olines around the league is much the same. This wasn’t the worst line in the NFL this year. they were inconsistent and inexperienced.

      • JC

        yeah at this point you’d be scraping trying to find a better coach. Many pro and college staffs are set.. and I don’t think anyone wants a promote from within for the o-line, as in Pete’s son Brennan.

      • Ed

        Me too. People keep saying he has been so great because of what he gets. The oline is still terrible, so how can it get much worse. Maybe someone can see it needs a power run scheme not zone.

        • LeoSharp

          What makes you think a power run scheme would work any better? Athletic lineman are supposed to play in a zone blocking scheme. Dallas runs a zone scheme but mix in a few power plays similar to the Seahawks. They just execute at a higher level more consistently. Scheme is not bigger than execution

    • C-Dog

      Personally, he’s the one assistant I most fear to lose, hope the t doesn’t happen.

      • Ukhawki

        Seconded. As the saying goes, ‘can’t make ice cream outta horsesh@t’ but Cable comes closest after losing 4 starting linemen in 2 years all of who were 2 1st rounders, a 2nd, and a DL convert who signed a 2nd contract for $48m

  43. JC

    I don’t think this game, or this year, were as dour as described Rob. A 5 to 9 point swing on the flagged Hester return, a thisclose to pick 6, Russell with a couple otherwise TD overthrows to Baldwin, a Matt Ryan fumble that got a fortunate bounce, and who knows. It doesn’t take much to flip a game, and in many respects, I have to tip my cap to Matt Ryan. He was money on throws to a location, not a receiver, turn and ball is right there on multiple 3rd and long conversions. Nearly everything was precision, often indefensible throws out quickly. It was a passing clinic from a team used to throwing up lopsided scores on offense. I don’t think any team in RW era went an entire game with the precision, timing, accuracy, and rhythm that the Falcons showed today. Because of that, Seahawks would’ve had to be near flawless and get those breaks they didn’t get to get the W on the road in January.

    • daniel


  44. BobbyK

    ET getting a little testy on Twitter. Can’t wait to get him back!

  45. KyleT

    My fix off-season plan:

    Spend our FA $ on a 3 down DT like Campbell. Biggest gap in our defense and DL. Our DT’s aren’t good enough to push the pocket or disrupt the backfield. Must be fixed.

    Our first round pick should go to the highest ranked CB on our board. In 2013, our DT’s were not world beaters, but they were disruptive and we had an incredible secondary. The pipeline of late rounders has run dry. Time to out a real standout on the other side of Sherm. Further a priority with Snead likely torn ACL.

    The strength of this Defense when healthy is the LB’s, Edge and Safeties and we have no business drafting any of those positions high with other glaring issues. Extend Kam. Draft another LB in the 3rd.

    On offense, we are very stacked, but held back by a young and inexperienced OL. Draft a guard 2nd round to add competition in the interior. Have Odhiambo compete with Fant for LT. Leave the rest alone to grow together. I believe LT and depth are the only issues to deal with. If Gilliam cannot get it done in his last year, move Ifedi there and put our 2nd rounder at RG.

    Extend Jimmy Graham. Pickup another RB in the 3rd.

    We have both the cap and the draft capital to get this done.

    • LeoSharp

      Sounds like the perfect plan. Budda Baker in the slot he might be another option if the team trusts Lane outside, plus he improves the FS depth.

    • Cysco

      Like I said in my post up above, I feel you need to get the offense back into the top-5 in offensive DVOA next season. That means you need to be better offensively than the Redskins who were #5 this year. You need to be in the same league offensively as Dal, GB, Atl, and NE.

      At some point I feel you need to say you’ve spent enough on the defense. Believe me, I would love to see Campbell on our D-Line, but doing so doesn’t tip the scales IMO. Having Campbell doesn’t make up the 16pt deficit from today. The biggest issue the team has is not being able to score enough and control the clock enough on offense.

      The team needs to seriously consider taking what available FA money they have and bringing in a quality veteran OL player and solve what to do with RB. (just can’t see Rawls staying healthy)

      • LeoSharp

        Calais Campbell plus Ifedi and Earl with Russel playing at his usual standard is probably worth 16+ points

        • Cysco

          I Don’t think so. Seattle was never going to win that game only scoring 20pts. They needed to get over 30 to stand a chance. Look at all the teams that are advancing. They all scored 30+. Atlanta was always going to put up around 30. It was the seattle offenses’s job to keep up. They couldn’t.

          Having earl probably helps pull Atl closer in to 30pts, but they still lose by 10. What would have made a huge difference would have been keeping the pace of the game like it was in the first quarter. Had Seattle been able to go on a couple more long drive that resulted in TDs that would have really shortened the game and given them a shot at winning it in the 4th.

          There is no realistic defensive roster that seattle could have fielded today that would have brought Atlanta’s score down below 20pts.

          I do agree that Wilson needs to play better though.

          • KyleT

            What nobody wants to face here is the reality that there is no easy fix to the OL and that FA dollars, #1 pick may be better spent elsewhere. That is 90% of what is wrong with our offense. That line has a good chance to be better next year though. Add competition / depth. Fix the defense.

          • LeoSharp

            Russel missing 2 throws in that game that he usually made in past seasons was enough to cover at least 7-11 points. 4 on a missed touchdown and a throw that puts the Seahawks into field goal range that might have gone for a touchdown.
            Ifedi probably not stepping on Wilson for a safety for another 2 points
            Earl covering 6. Although statistically his absence has been worth more points per game
            That leaves the score at 28-28 If you take the lower estimate. Add Calais Campbell and the talent is heavily skewed in favour of Seattle.

          • AlaskaHawk

            Part of it is that the secondary used to be more ball hawks then they are now. They haven’t had an interception in six games since Earl Campbell left. That is why I would support a high round cornerback or spare safety to be picked now. Seahawks need more help in the secondary from players with good catching ability. Now that Shead went down = this seems like a very wise decision. It would not bother me in the least if Seahawks picked #1 cornerback and #2 Defensive line. As long as they fill their needs on the offense in the mid to late rounds.

  46. rowdy

    Hester was unbelievable tonight. His vision is out of this world.

    • Hawktalker

      Sign him next year and protect Lockett from returns? Too much with him and Lockett both?

      • Hawk Eye

        I would sign him. I doubt he costs a lot, and better to have two great options on special teams and maybe save a little wear and tear on Lockett.
        Special teams can play a huge part in winning and losing and can be done with the lowest cap impact.
        Like saving $400K on the long snapper! What could go wrong?

  47. Ed

    -Lane, Kearse and 3rd for J. Thomas
    -FA Zeitler
    -FA Lacy or Peterson

    Would like more moves, but those moves might get the Hawks back to forcing the run. Would like other moves because I think their is too much angst in the locker room. Too many guys full of themselves. If PC can’t control it, ship them out (Sherman/Bennett/Lane)

    • LeoSharp

      Joe Thomas is a poor scheme fit and Cleveland haven’t wanted to move him for a while. Who’s replacing Lane especially with Shead out.

      • Ed

        A paper bag. He has been terrible since he broke his arm at the SB. Maybe Jones or King in the draft.

    • Rob Staton

      Cleveland have categorically stated they aren’t dealing Joe Thomas.

      There would be zero reason to do it for a third round pick. How do they replace Thomas with that??

  48. chris

    I have to think this season will serve as a reminder to Carroll about two things: winning the line of scrimmage, and turnovers. Offensive and defensive lines of scrimmage struggled at times. I would not be surprised if the Seahawks made an investment in both O line (obviously) and interior pass rush. Will be interesting to see Jefferson healthy and Reed in year two. Defensive backfield depth showed this season a lot. I think pass rush didn’t help (despite great seasons from Avril/Clark/Bennett, the pass rush was hit or miss). That said, we struggled with turnovers. The defense feels the same as it has in previous years (if not better) about tackling and open field stops (thanks to Wright and Wagner) but that swarm mentality that provided turnovers is gone. I could definitely see them drafting a db playmaker to use in nickel situations.

    Overall, the run game needs to improve but I think the pieces are there if we improve the left side of the line. Im honestly not as concerned about the Seahawks offense because I trust Wilson and our playmakers to put it together, provided they receive help this offseason up front.

    • KyleT

      Our entire pass rush depends on getting people to 3rd and long and getting the NASCAR on the field. Outside of that we aren’t very good and have no interior push. Our best interior rusher is Bennet and he plays edge most downs.

      A balanced attack has always been this defenses achillies

  49. Matt

    I hate to say it, but Pete’s culture is not really a culture anymore. It’s simply a bromide. Just listen to Richard Sherman earlier this year about “Pete’s kumbaya.”

    After hearing this and sensing much internal dysfunction, I wouldn’t mind seeing this FO simply churning a significant portion of this roster, including Sherman.

    This team is rotting from the inside. This isn’t just a reaction to this game, but a dysfunctional season of wild ups and downs. It’s not healthy and it isn’t getting better. That’s just the harsh reality of the season.

    Pick either Bevell or Cable to run the offense. And get rid of the cancerous locker room players, no matter how talented they may be. That’s the only way I see this thing getting better.

    • nichansen01

      yup. we have had culture issues ever since we won that superbowl.

      • PPast

        Yesterday I posted Pete’s song of the day which was War’s Why Can’t We Be Friends. I suggested it might refer to the draft. Maybe it referred to clubhouse tensions. But then I don’t have the ability to understand Pete’s ideolect.

    • KingRajesh

      Somebody from that D needs to get the axe, and it should probably be Sherman, I just don’t know if you could do that and expect to have ET play for very much longer.

  50. nichansen01

    I honestly would love to see them cut Sherman.

    Let elliot and shead be the starters. They just WANT it more.

    • nichansen01

      Also trade bennet and sign Campbell to replace him

      • Cysco

        You’re joking right? Please tell us you’re joking cause that is the funniest thing I’ve read all night.

        Oh man, cut Sherman and Trade Bennet. That’s a good one. Thanks. I needed that.

        • Ed

          On a serious note, Cysco, how does PC reel this team in. He is so positive and never seems to get these guys in order on or off the field this season. The SB was a long time ago. He needs to get these guys in check, otherwise the Hawks will not be back to the SB anytime soon.

          • Cysco

            I don’t think he needs to reel anyone in personally. You’ve got a team of very talented players with “alpha” personalities. The fact that they get upset and sometimes get in each other’s face just shows how much winning means to them. For me, I want that kind of passion. I want players who get pissed when they lose. I want player who call each other out when they don’t execute properly.

            The problem with this team IMO all comes back to the offense. Be it the offensive line, the coaching, the overall philosophy. Whatever. Simply put, the offense wasn’t nearly good enough to be a contender this year. You want to “fix” this team? Figure out how to make the offense a top-5 offense again. Otherwise, we’re destined for a repeat next season.

            • nichansen01

              Well i agree 100 percent that the offense needs to get better. This is not the draft though to fix the o line. I’m still waiting on fant. He is garbage as of now it is literally his first year EVER playing football. Gilliams is still bad but I think I’ll give him one more off season to see if he can get stronger and perfect his craft. Fant and Gilliam= could be bookends eventually. They have the athleticism but we need them both to put on weight and get stronger. Glow? basically first year asa starter. Give him another year as with ifedi. I want to let all of these guys just get more comfortable with each other and grow together. Better than throwing in another rookie or experimental convert. Just let everyone grow.

            • C-Dog

              I think this is spot on.

      • Ed

        The easy thing to see and say. The egos that got this team to the top is now quickly making their demise. This isn’t Madden, but if it was:

        Sherman – to Ten #5
        Bennett – to Bal #16

        #5 Fournette (RB)
        #16 Bolles (OT)
        #27 Jones (CB)

        • nichansen01

          I would love to see it. Dont think sherm and bennet are gonna be valued that highly though. Older players who never grew up.

    • Rob Staton

      Cutting key players is a sure fire way to make the team really bad very quickly.

      • Hawk Eye

        never lose elite talent if they are playing up to their contract.

        In the NFL, it takes a lot for a player to be such a huge distraction that you get rid of them.

        part of the distraction issue is those players hate to lose.
        lots of players like to win, but you win with a lot of them that hate to lose

      • GerryG

        Talk about over reaction central:

        Carroll is terrible, lost his team

        Cut Sherman!!

        Get rid of Bennet.

        Good grief. It is the salary cap NFL, and they have a lot of big contracts. That makes it hard to continue winning. There is nothing wrong with Carroll; players love playing for him, Seattle is a place people want to play.

        Sherman and Bennet just want to win. Bennet was pissed at a LT that tried to injure him earlier this year. Sherman needs to cool it a little, but you aren’t going to get someone better than him. If someone on the roster was better than him, they would be playing.

        Everyone goes home, gets healthy, the team adds talent, and they come back ready to roll. If this team had a competent OL that could win in the run game they would have been a #2 seed, and everyone would have been all smiles.

  51. Ed

    So much talent on the team.

    JS needs to spend some money on OL and RB.

    PC needs to get the troops back to focus on the ultimate prize. They are lost and it is his job to get IT back.

    • SeaTown

      PC’s message is stale. These guys do not hear it. Will be next to impossible to get it back.

  52. Aaron

    While it’s easy to have knee jerk reactions and hot takes after a loss, especially last game of the season kinda loss, I refuse to play that easy and lazy game. The window is still open, the core is still talented and young enough to compete for championships for a couple more seasons. Realistically I would like to see three points of emphasis this offseason.

    1. Protect Russell Wilson – He is the face of the franchise. He will be here longer than the defensive core, most if not all the offensive players, and possibly PC a/o JS. We will only go as far as he takes us. Adding a high level free agent offensive guard or tackle, not a journeyman or cast off, is possible this offseason. Make it happen!

    2. Durability through depth – It’s unrealistic to expect a second or third string guy to replace and perform better than a first string guy, especially on a team with a few potential future HOFers. However, quality depth behind these guys helps to minimize their departure. DB and RB depth and health were problems all season long. Adding depth and possible starters to these positions will be essential this offseason. Make it happen!

    3. Prepare for life after this defensive core – This defensive core (Bennett, Avril, KJ, Bobby, Sherm, Kam, and Earl) are still young enough to compete for championships. However, in a few years it won’t be if young playmakers aren’t added to the starting lineup. While the personal love PC and JS have for these guys need not diminish, the NE model is a great example to emulate in terms of when to let go of an aging player. Make it happen!

    So, in recap. This team doesn’t need to be blow up or major starters traded. The coaching staff doesn’t need to be gutted or even position coaches changed. If they commit to protecting Russell Wilson, add durability through depth, and prepare for life after the defensive core ages out or leaves, then we can expect many more years of championship runs. Go Hawks!!!

  53. Kenny Sloth

    Don’t be surprised if there is little to no change on the OL.

    • Hawktalker

      Although that sure could be true based on comments Carrol has already made, that would be massively disappointing and really Put me on the witch-hunt of, who made that decision and the follow-up of, who should be fired over there. One year with that crap line was bad enough! Seriously, who wants to do that again? Anyone in their right mind? One more year is NOT going to magically become a serviceable unit from the place they ended up this year to next and Seattle will not have the offensive it needs next year with that crap line. Just fix it already. SMH

    • C-Dog

      I won’t be. Carroll has pretty much given some strong enough indications they are willing to stay with these guys. If anything, I kinda expect Odhiambo to push one of these guys next year.

    • KyleT

      Exactly. Anyone who understands this team, the cap situation and this draft will probably come to this conclusion.

  54. Hawktalker

    I know RB is not a top need but perhaps a r3 or r4 pick in addition to having a plan for the OL could be helpful. In the spirit of more of a physical Rawls physical style back, the more I watch Samaje the more I love watching him run over and by defenders:

    Thoughts on this Earl Campbell-ish guy that was included in the top 16 most freaky college athletes of 2106?

  55. ROBERt Las vegas

    I am not sure if Luke Wilson helped himself for a huge pay raise today..and Kevin Pierre Louis might not helped himself either.and how many times did o line whiff today.and I think Pete might have to make a couple of coaching changes

  56. red

    I think we go heavy on defense in this draft, and spend on OL. would not be surprised if we took 2CBs in first 4 rounds.

    1. Trade back from 27 to 35 and pick up a mid 3rd rounder.
    2. With the 35th pick C. Brantley UF NFL Draft Scout #38
    3. With pick 59 K. King UW NFL Draft Scout #84
    4. With pick 82 from trade E. Engram Ole Miss NFL Draft Scout #90
    5. with pick 91 A Gennesy TAM NFL Draft Scout #92
    6. with pick 105 comp 3RD M. White FSU NFL Draft Scout #113
    7. with pick 187 comp for Sweazy T. Thompson UC NFL Draft Scout 199

    • Hawktalker

      I like these Sea mock drafts!

      Tweak to trade down only if all the big name impact players are off the board, I know subjective.

      Then sub Samaje Perine RB for the #4 TE pick

  57. Kelly

    After watching the team much of this year the following are some changes I would like to see.

    Cut Jimmy Graham- While being asked to block and having the most receptions by a TE in Hawks History. I just can’t see how they can justify spending 9 million per year on a TE like Graham when it could be used to go after a free agent OL to fix the team’s most obvious issue.

    Draft a pass rushing DT, OT, CB, S.

    Would go into more detail and will do it once I get back from my overseas holiday. Wish I could have watched the last two games on TV rather than just play by play game cast. So at least the majority of you were able to watch this great team’so final two games. Can’t wait for FA and the Draft. Take care peeps. Go Hawks!

    • Andrew C Taylor

      When I was in Europe on holidays I signed up to game day pass watched a game then cancelled. I at least got to watch one game and it did not cost me.

      • Kelly

        Internet in Bali isn’t good enough to stream unfortunately.

    • Cysco

      Your goal is to improve the offense, not remove one of the best offensive weapons in the NFL. You need to get the Hawks back into the top-5 in offensive DVOA. You don’t do that by trading Graham.

      • RealRhino2

        Really? Because without Graham, we were top-5 in offensive DVOA. With Graham, we were 15th (2015) and 17th (2016).

      • Kelly

        Zach Miller not being the supreme athlete Jimmy was always seems to be able to get crucial grabs in games. The way this offense was run in the past did not require an electrifying TE. So do I believe Jimmy is a top 3 TE? Yes I do. But at the same time I would like to Seattle get that extra cap space to go after a Zeitler, Kalil, Vollmer, or Dominque Easley in FA. If you use money from cutting Kearse and Jimmy Graham maybe you could get at least 2 of these guys maybe three if they are lucky. Would like to see if they could get a Gilmore or Kirpatrick but that would be a pipe dream.
        I think a lot depends on what their overall plan is with Ifedi. Is he our RG or RT going forward? Say you get Zeitler who is 26 at RG and kick Ifedi out to RT. Then sign Easley to a 2 year prove it deal it would allow them to be more aggressive in the draft at perhaps picking up a CB in Round 1 and looking at maybe another EDGE/OT in Round 2 and grab Luani in the 3rd. Or even trading up to get say Bolles in Round 1 if they see him as an option at LT.
        Still need to look at some things on overthecap and what not to see if Seattle could even afford to make a play for say Kalil and Zeitler after resigning Kam and maybe doing something for Avril. If Jimmy and Kearse were to be gone. For me it is not a knee jerk reaction to just get rid of Graham. I love the guy and he is a great teammate. I am just trying to run through logical scenario in which this team can improve greatly for the offense as a whole. It is hard to find good OL in the draft with all the athletic talent being on defense in college so maybe an agressive approach such as this is needed.

    • John_s

      They will have between 30-37 million in cap room. There’s no need to cut Jimmy to improve the line. It’s not an either or scenario

    • Rob Staton

      Cutting Jimmy Graham would be an irresponsible, ridiculous move.

      Cutting one of the best players in the league on an increasingly value deal, to spend the same salary on Ricky Wagner?

      And then needing to replace Graham too.

      You’re left with a weaker player on the same contract, and a weaker TE group.

      • D-OZ

        Really getting weary of this CUT JIMMY talk.

      • RealRhino2

        “One of the best players in the league.”

        I think one of the most valuable things I learned in law school was a message given in a talk by Charles Whitebread, USC professor. It was advice on taking tests. He said, essentially, “Remember, you are not taking ‘Torts’ (for example), you are taking ‘Torts as Taught By Professor X'”. The point being, you don’t learn in a vacuum; you learn what’s important to THAT professor so when it comes time to test, you will use that information to your benefit.

        Jimmy Graham is probably one of the best players in the league. But is he one of the best players in the league FOR US?

        • GerryG


          He was the #2 receiver, despite having to help block all the time.

          • Mishima

            When you have no run game & no pass protection & throwing the ball 60% of the time, Jimmy Graham is going to get numbers.

            JG’s season stats were OK, but not indicative of a good offense. On the contrary, I’d bet they’d like to see JG with fewer targets or more receptions coming off of successful play action.

            Numbers lie.

            • GerryG

              Agreed. The point is Jimmy is a good player. Getting rid of him does not make Seattle better.

              Everything on offense looks better if they can run ball.

              Just like everything in the secondary looks better if they can rush the passer with more consistency.

              • Mishima

                I’m undecided on whether getting rid of Jimmy Graham would make the team better.

                If they can trade him for a late first (unlikely) or second (probable) and use the $9 million on OL or DL help, then maybe.

                Going forward:

                Njoku/Vannett + $9 million FA (Staley, Campbell, etc.) > One Year of JG.

                Tired argument and it really comes down to whether it’s wise to extend JG & whether you consider the championship window still open. I do not, on both accounts.

          • RealRhino2

            Every team has a #2 receiver.

            • LordSnow

              Except for us. We have a guy who does rub routes.

        • Mishima


  58. Dumbquestions

    Well, that sucked.

    Yet it didn’t suck the way other losses in the past have sucked, if that makes sense. I mean in the emotional sense, the fan sense. Not anger-inducing. It just felt inevitable and sad. The season ended with a long sigh – not like the rage and despair over the lost Super Bowl, or the disgust over giving up too many points to Carolina last year.

    What I saw was fragility. I’m forced to give some credence to the glass cannon theory, even if the metaphor means different things to different people. Amazing how a single sequence – the penalized punt return, safety, FG – was such a momentum changer. But it’s a perfect example of the glass cannon effect.

    Others, including Rob, tend to apply it to the offense, and I get that — this year’s offense couldn’t play from behind. But I am much more concerned about the decline of the defense.

    Up above, Leosharp listed the year’s injuries, and they were enormous. They magnified the problems. Everything is linked. Nothing happens in isolation.

    Also up above, Cysco said, “This team used to DICTATE on both offense and defense.”

    That’s not my memory. Defense, yes — absolutely. Offense? No. At best the offense with Lynch scratched its way, carried by the defense. Is anyone really going to argue that a WR group of Sidney Rice, young Baldwin, young Kearse and gimpy Zach Miller was *better* than Baldwin/Lockett/Graham/Kearse/Richardson? Come on. The offense is *better* now, with RW’s evolution, Baldwin’s maturity, Graham’s production, etc. Yes, they passed more than they ran, because the RB group was hurt *so much.* That last factor hurt like crazy this year.

    So no, I don’t think it’s Bevell or Carroll, or Cable, or Schneider. I don’t think they’ve suddenly become incompetent or stale or out of touch. I think this was a major bad-luck season, and each bad break created new problems. Rawls hurt to start, Collins not productive, Christine Michael progressing and regressing, etc. Bennett hurt for a number of games. Kam hurt for a number of games. RUSSELL hurt for a number of games. Thomas breaks his leg. These effects stacked. They contributed to stupid losses and the loss of seeding, and so on.

    Some part of your group has to be elite. In past years, the defense was elite. This year, for a variety of reasons, it was not. So you didn’t get the stops that concealed offensive weakness. You couldn’t look at the D this year and say, OK, bummer offense, but the LOB’s got this. They didn’t have it. Far fewer turnovers, less QB pressure. They became beatable.

    Why? Just age? Is that it? I’m skeptical. I am not inclined to criticize coaches reflexively, but it’s remarkable to me that Bevell is a perpetual target while Kris Richard is not. Can I point to some failure on Richard’s part? No. I don’t know how to measure it. But he clearly seemed to have problems managing the personalities of the personnel, and the outcomes simply weren’t as good as they were for Quinn and Bradley. Is this merely a function of age on the defense, of young guys like Sherman getting more cynical? Maybe. But I wonder if something deeper is going on.

    For my money, two free-agent losses — Okung and Bruce Irvin – had outsized effects. I understood losing Irvin. But I would have fought way harder for Okung, a quirky but talented individual who went without an agent and took crap money in Denver. Expensive, yes – but not *as* expensive as others might have been. You want to talk front-office mistakes? That’s one decision I view as a major gaffe. The rest I can live with.

    The thing is, if you look at that line as it turned out, they had no leader, no one who could set an example, no one who had *won*, no one who could show the rookies what maturity looked like. Britt did a fine job, but Okung was loved, much as Kam is on the defense. I suspect he would have been a calming force on Ifedi, and the resulting depth would have rippled along the rest of the group. More time for Fant and Odhiambo to learn. Better pass protection. Better run blocking. Am I wrong?

    Irvin’s loss hurt because he was fearsome on the right side, and his absence meant a lot of gashing in that area. You can’t have everything.

    How to fix it? You can reach for OL, but the draft class appears to favor defenders. That’s where I’m betting the focus will be. PC/JS will take a lot of grief if they don’t talk about OL, but I want to see some more mean, tough young guys on D come in, and maybe a free agent or two. As crazy as it sounds, I’m not too worried about offense. Rebuild an elite D, and everything else will follow.

    Go Hawks.

    • C-Dog

      Nicely written, DQ. I tend to think they might load up on the defensive side with this draft. I think we’ve already gotten a sense from Carroll that they are willing to give this young line a chance to grow together, not to say they don’t add to it in some regard, but this draft is loaded with DL and DBs. Gotta think PC/JS are well aware of that.

      • Hawktalker

        That is My #1 concern. Let the line grow together = rainbows and unicorns. Rediculous, just like their performance almost all year long.

        • peter

          What’s the fix then? I think Free agency because at their draft spot I can’t see how adding another Ifedi/Britt/Carpenter/ is going to fix the situation……

          • C-Dog

            I think you are spot on.

    • Tien

      Great post, DQ, and you articulated a very logical summary of the Hawks’ situation! Like you, I thought Okung was the biggest loss in the offseason because though he wasn’t great, he was probably above league average when healthy and he would have been the one reliable known component on the OL that would have stabilized it a bit. But from what I read, I’m not sure if Okung would have come back even if we had offered him the contract that Denver did. It seemed like that for whatever reason, he was done with Seattle and was intent on moving one, barring us giving him an obscene amount of money, which I would have been against. An unfortunate set of circumstances, especially for our team, but I haven’t read anything to convince me that the Hawks’ front office low balled him or conveyed to him that they didn’t want him back. On offense, I truly believe that we have most of the pieces necessary to be a truly dangerous offense, with the exception of a competent/at least league average OL that played consistently and a solid/great running game. From reading this blog and Rob’s analysis, we may be SOL in getting one of the top tackles in the draft. Likewise, I’m down with signing Zeitler from CIN but given how needy many NFL teams are for good OL, he could be in high demand and then we need to be careful by not outrageously paying him. IF we knew for certain that the current OL will develop and fulfill their athletic potential, there wouldn’t be as much concern but since we don’t know, let’s cross our fingers and hope JS gets lucky and one of the top rated tackles fall to us and he’s able to sign a good/great OL free agent to help improve this line. Getting another tough athletic RB to pair with Rawls & Procise shouldn’t be that difficult in the draft nor cost that much in draft capital. I still believe that we’re not that far from being an elite offense and it all depends if we can get the right fixes on the OL and to a lesser extent, the RB position. And yeah, reload on defense so that it gets back to elite level again! GO HAWKS!!

  59. Dan

    1. Fix the offensive line with veteran tackles. Sign Ricky Wagner to play RT. Sign Riley Reiff to play LT. Even if they are just “average” players, you have improved your team.
    2. Draft a CB — maybe King — to replace Shead.
    3. Draft a FS to backup Thomas.
    4. Draft a SLB to replace Morgan
    5. Play Richardson and McEvoy over Kearse.
    6. Draft a PK to replace Hauschka.

    This team’s greatest deficit from previous years was its inability to run the ball. The 99 cent store OL, Rawls’ injuries, and Wilson’s injuries were to blame. Obviously, the defense was hurt by the inability of the offense to run and win time of possession and then Earl’s injury.

    • Hawktalker

      Nice post. 99 cent store OL, perfect . . . And unfortunately, painfully true.

      That 99 cent store OL is a mindset the FO needs to get away from in order for the OL to get to where it needs to be. It needs some actual work and upgrades, not just competition with other crap O linemen and the fantasy hope of rainbows and unicorns as the solution. Time to get real or settle for a poor 2017 team.

      • Rob Staton

        It isn’t a mindset — I know people like to think of it that way. It isn’t though. The interior line consists of a first, second and fourth round pick with a third rounder in the background. They’ve spent more on the OL via the draft than most other teams. If they’d overspent on veteran free agents who weren’t that good, people would just be complaining they wasted money. If they’d given Sweezy $6.5m APY and watched him not play a snap this year due to a back injury, what would the reaction be then?

        Seattle will spend on the OL — but the right guy has to be there to spend the money on.

    • LeoSharp

      I actually think Hauschka is fine. Since they changed LS he has been way more consistent in his kicks. All his kicks against Detroit were grouped to the right so the one miss he had wasn’t all that surprising, He also tended to have the XP blocked and miss the FG not the other way round. In Atlanta they were straight down the middle in all his other games the kicking accuracy has just been erratic.
      Getting rid of Gresham was a smart move, it lead to better coverage on ST, cap savings and injected youth into the kicking operation. The FO probably thought they could have a second half resurgence in special teams like they do at all other positions but the effect seemed to compound as the season went on. As the LS got better the rhythm changed and it made the whole operation worse.
      Jon Ryan also had a less than spectacular season kicking and holding at times. His consistency has also been lacking in key moments.

      • John_s

        My bigger concern about Hausch is the $$ that he makes.

        • Hawktalker

          What is that amount?

          • John_s

            Cap hit was 3.5 mil last year

      • Hawktalker

        As long as the LS Change didn’t cost any games in exchange for a few bucks, wait . . .

    • Rob Staton

      If Reiff and Wagner cost $10m a year — that is a big problem.

      • Dan

        The combined first year cap hits of signing both a Wagner and a Reiff shouldn’t be more than $10m. They can easily afford that even without extending Graham’s contract and lowering his cap number. What they can’t afford is having an offensive line that is so dysfunctional that it prevents them from taking advantage of this championship window.

  60. SeaTown

    Why is the answer to fix the team always to fire Bevell and or Cable and get rid of Jimmy Graham? People, those are not the issues. Those are surface, knee-jerk reactions. There are deeper issues here IMO. As I mentioned above, I think PC has lost this team. I truly believe he wants to believe that this group is special, but the product on the field does not match the message. Fights on the sideline, Sherm blasting coaches, Earl threatening to retire, Kam calling out the D for getting outside themselves are all clear indicators that something is rotten in Denmark. This is not around leadership and connection. Rob correctly pointed out above that both Wilson and Carroll will stay on message but the message doesn’t resonate with fans and the message clearly doesn’t resonate in the locker room. So how does firing Bevell, Cable, or cutting/trading Jimmy Graham fix that? It doesn’t.

    The other person that needs to be held accountable is the GM, JS. I think it was border line criminal that he constructed that OL in what was considered an open SB window year. In fact, there really are no great teams and this team could have gone deeper. JS is living on draft picks who hit from 5/6 years ago. We no longer see those hits and thus the depth of this team has deteriorated. This team needs to do some soul searching this offseason and it starts with PC, JS and the approach they take to constructing this team. The NFC West is terrible so the window is open there for division titles the next few years, but if you really want deep January/Feb runs this team has to find itself because right now it is lost. Firing Bevell and or Cable and getting rid of Jimmy will not fix what is broken. It’s deeper than that.

    • LeoSharp

      Russel Wilson’s injuries have been by far the biggest factor this season. compared to last year his numbers are considerably down.
      200 yards down from last year. That alone would put the Seahawks in the top 13 for rushing this year a significant swing without factoring the effect it has on ball control and sustaining drives which would lead to more rushing attempts more drives for the o-line to gel and potentially more wins.

      16 less 1st downs
      10% fewer 1st down runs
      0 runs over 20 yards, last year he had 3 and a 53 yard TD that was called back
      2 yards per attept less
      2 attempts per game less
      He also has 28 more sack yards than last year

      Depth at every position group is pretty good other than at OL.
      Steven Terrel has had absolutely no starting time until this season. Rookie like in his play similar to how Earl played in his first year but without the massive upside. It’s mainly his consistency that’s an issue.
      Depth at running back was good but they were just injured, the talent was there but you can’t expect 3 RBs to be injured and the running game to look the same.
      Kelcie McCray is a solid backup
      Brock Coyle was ok at SAM while also playing out of position
      Richardson replaced Lockett
      Clark covered for Bennett
      Deandre Elliot played well and so did Neiko Thorpe in their limited snaps.
      Even Odiambo has looked good at times. the 10 snaps against Carolina and most of the snaps against Atlanta.
      The only terrible backup was Webb he was injured before training camp and during the season.

      Earl spoke about retirement after his shoulder injury as well

    • Cysco

      Disagree with pretty much everything here.

      Just because players are passionate and care enough about winning to call people out, get angry with one another and get mad when they lose doesn’t mean PC has lost the team. The moment you see players quit on the field. That’s when you should get concerned. These guys want to win more than anything. These guys are super talented, alpha personalities. I guarantee you that they all have massive respect for Pete and would all “take a bullet” for one another.

      JS is a top-three GM in the league. The organization made a decision that they had to go young and cheap on OL to stay within the cap to pay players like Wilson and various defensive players. Cabal was given a lot of authority to pick the OL players he felt best about being able to train up. Don’t think for a second that JS just drafted all these guys in a vacuum with Cable having no input. He’s drafted plenty of contributors in the last four years and a few future stars. Just because they haven’t captured lightning in a bottle and found the second coming of richard sherman doesn’t mean they aren’t drafting well.

      “In fact, there really are no great teams” in the playoffs? Seriously? That Atlanta team is really good and this GB/DAL game today is going to be epic. There’s no shame in losing to ATL.

      This team has a solitary issue, and it’s not the defense, the front office, the coaching staff or anything else like that. It’s simply not good enough on offense. The defense as is was plenty good enough to win it all. The offense was not.

      • SeaTown

        So players who fight amongst themselves and disrespect coaches during a game are just passionate and care about winning? I guess we have different opinions about passion and how it should be displayed. What does quitting on the field look like in NFL? To me it looks like players fighting amongst themselves and disrespecting coaches. It also looks like players starting fights on the field when the other teams are in the victory formation ending games. That’s a funny way of showing your coach respect.

        JS is a good GM, never said he wasn’t but both he and his process are not above criticism. I keep hearing how Cable picks the OL but I’ve never heard either PC or JS publicly state that they turn over their draft to Cable and just go with what he says. I’m sure Cable has input but the bottom line is JS makes the pick and JS decided to go into this season with Bradley Sowell and George Fant at LT. I’m sorry but JS is open to criticism, not above it.

        I stand by my comment. There are no great teams in the playoffs. They all have their warts and they all can be beaten. Like you said ATL is really good, yes but not really great. That’s the point. Even NE struggled for a bit last night against Houston. That was my point. This year was open to any of the teams making the playoffs to actually win it. Yes they all have their strong points but they all have warts. Not one team is truly dominant over the rest of the league.

        This team was lights out last year on O and struggled this year because of O line play and Wilson’s injury but the bigger factor was and is the declining Defense. If you really think this D is plenty good, we are not watching the same team. This is no longer the historically good 2013 squad and JS made a mistake by playing them as if they are. That’s why we are stuck with Bradley Sowell and George Fant.

        • Cysco

          I think your concerns about the defense are misguided. The personalities on this team are there intentionally. They’re personality traits that the front office seeks out and it’s a team culture that you speak your mind and be yourself. Does it suck if Sherman yells at a coach on the sideline? Of course. And I’m sure they talked it out afterwards. Does it suck that team members are yelling at each other for missing assignments? To me, no. It’s like the publicized blow up with sherman and others a number of weeks back. One minute everyone is yelling at each other and getting in each other’s face. The next, they’re hugging it out and dancing. It’s who they are. It doesn’t effect their play.

          What I think people should be concerned about is the lack of interior pressure and the fact that opposing offenses have learned how to exploit the defensive scheme. I personally believe the drop off in defensive production has nothing to do with team chemistry and everything to do with a terrible offense that can’t control the game and a lack of interior pressure from the D-line.

          As far as this year’s playoff team, there is zero chance a team like Houston, Seattle or NY could have won this year. It wasn’t “wide open” as you say. You think it’s a coincidence that the top-four teams in offensive DVOA are still playing and no team from the top-10 for defensive DVOA remains?

          The simple fact is that in today’s NFL (not 5-years ago or even last year) elite offense and passable defense is the key to winning. Seattle simply doesn’t have the offense to compete. In reality, we are far closer to the chiefs and Giants than we are the Falcons, GB and Dallas. You want to advance further into the playoffs next season? Keep the defensive roster you had this year and do what you have to do to get the offense into the top-5 in offensive DVOA.

          • SeaTown

            I think you are kidding yourself if you don’t think those blow ups affect play and team unity. They can hug and dance all they want but it does affect the way they play.

            I agree with you, though, about the lack of pressure. This has been a problem since the NE Super Bowl. I mean for all the hullabaloo about he RW INT at the 1, just remember this Defense gave uo 14 4th quarter points which blew a 10 point lead in the Super Bowl. So the next time a certain CB on that D wants to bitch and moan about offensive play calls I think he needs to be reminded of that collapse.

            Why do you give the defense a pass for all their shortcomings? Do you see how much money is being paid to that side of the ball? You are are seriously going to lay blame on Bevell and the offense when JS has given them one of the worst offensive lines in NFL history? They can’t control games like they used to because the O line sucks and that is the fault of JS.

            Again, I agree with you. Today you need a decent defense and terrific offense to win in the NFL. Unfortunately, we have decided to pay a defense as if it is still 2013 and let the offense line fall to crap. Whose fault is that? So again, JS needs to be held accountable for paying defense when, as you say, it is offense that wins championships (according to your DVOA stats).

            • LeoSharp

              Are you just going to ignore the loss of Cliff Avril for most of the second half? A pro bowl Player. The loss of pass rush allowed longer developing routes that lead to big gains.

    • GerryG

      Fire Bevell/Cable cut Graham is kneejerk…

      But the problem is PC/JS is not knee jerk?

      We arent getting a better coach than PC next year. Same with GM-JS.

      His 13/14 draft were meh. 15/16 draft were pretty darn good.

    • C-Dog

      So, in other words, keep Bevell, Cable, Jimmy Graham, and fire Pete Carroll, John Schneider, and Russell Wilson?

      Wow, this is the hot take leader of 2017, IMO. Can not disagree more.

      • SeaTown

        No one has said fire Carroll and JS. Those are your words. However, it has been suggested, not just by me, but others who follow this team, that PC’s message is no longer resonating. Sorry if that upsets you.

        • C-Dog

          Doesn’t upset me at all. I just strongly disagree with that, and won’t believe it until it’s proven to be a reality.

          I would say that if it doesn’t resonate with certain players, which at this point, it’s just speculation, but let’s just say it’s true, it’s a greater chance those players will be gone than the HC who brought in the message and the system that won Seattle it’s first Super Bowl, back to back Super Bowls, and has had Seattle in the playoffs 6 out of the last 7 years, always at least advancing to the divisional round.

          IMO, this is purely speculation game.

  61. Hawk Eye

    The easiest fix in sports always appears to be to change coaches, because you can’t fire all the players.
    Pete is staying and no way do i think he should go.
    But it seems to me that other teams out schemed the Hawks a lot this year and the discussion should be had regarding the obvious suspects. I am just guessing, but I tend to think that other teams made better adjustments to the Hawks during games than the other way around, if the talent was close. Maybe I am just looking at it thru Hawk coloured glasses. (or “colored” to some…)

    1. Richard. Even without ET, he has 7 pro bowl caliber players in Sherm, Kam, KJ, Bobby, Clark, Avril and Bennett. Are they over rated? Are the other 4 or 5 guys playing that weak? Or is it time to stop saying we won’t change our scheme, just try and beat us? I think they were 3rd in sacks, but they did not seem to get consistent pressure many games, and feasted on some weaker teams. Does a different DC get Sherm under control? Does he call a better game than Richard? Will Pete allow a new coach to come in and change his scheme? Or do we expect too much? Can’t say there is a dominant defense out there this year, but I don’t think the Hawks have the best one anymore. But I don’t think I can find another team with a better top 8 players. Whether the rest of the players or the play calling/coaching is the deciding factor has to be determined.
    2. Bevel. He did a lot to help Russell grow, but is it time to change because it has gone stale? And I really wonder about the whole he handles passing and Cable handles the run game. It does not seem like a good way to do things and maybe having 2 bosses is not good for the o line or the offense as a whole. How many good games has he called vs bad ones. How much is determined by bad o line, and could he make different calls to help the o line more?
    3. Cable. You hear that he is either a great o line coach or people say he is out of touch. Is it fair to judge him with the players he has been given. Did he want Webb and Sowell? Or was it that was all that he could have for the budget? He seems like a very dominant personality, so I really wonder how that plays into working with Bevel. Not a clash as much as maybe a bad fit. I just don’t think keeping them both is a good idea, even if I don’t know who you replace them with. And does the zone blocking scheme work better than others? With these players? Have rule changes made it less effective? Would Pete replace him with another ZBS coach anyways if he left?

    I doubt anything is black and white and changing all or some of the coaches will fix things. But doing the same thing with the same people and expecting different results will probably not change things. And change can always be for the worse. Is Pete too loyal? Are there better coaches out there who are available? Does changing coaches inspire the players, or do you lose more than you gain?

    lots of questions, no easy answers. Thin line between genius and madness and timing sometimes comes down to luck.

    • Cysco

      I think this is a fair post.

      On the defensive side, I think they need to start being a little more creative. Teams have had plenty of time and tape to figure out how to attack seattle. We run a “vanilla” defense, but the offenses around the league are becoming more explosive and creative. I think we need to accept that in today’s NFL the idea of having an epic defense is an impossible goal. I don’t care who you throw out there, ATL, GB, Dallas, NE etc. are going to score points on you. Going into yesterday’s game, Seattle was the highest rated defense remaining and the four real contenders to win it all aren’t even close defensively.

      On offense, I think they need to take a step back and decide what exactly they want to be and make changes to become that identity. For various reasons it seemed like they didn’t know who they wanted to be all year. If you want to be an awesome running and time of possession team, then great. Get the proper players in here that can do that and stick with it. If you want to be the russell wilson show, fine. Get an offensive mind and players in here that can turn our offense into new orleans. And don’t say it’s not possible. The saints have a top-5 offensive and have less salary cap dedicated to offense than seattle does.

      • SeaTown

        Wait a second. You just said the D was plenty good but now you are suggesting we change schemes? I hate to break it to you but that goes against the entire PC mantra. They are who they are and they don’t change for anyone. So you either are who you or you change. And you only change when you aren’t good enough. BTW-I’m not saying you are wrong-I actually agree with you. They should change the scheme for two reasons, they are no longer the dominant D they were and the rest of the league has indeed caught up to them.

        • LordSnow

          It really doesn’t have the talent it used to. No one can tell me that if KJ or Wagz went down, they are not in a serious bind. This is not like previous years. This unit finished #2, but in reality, without Earl, they are probably in the bottom half as a unit. It doesn’t have the depth in the 2nd and 3rd strings to push (ie “always compete”) the starters. The addition of Frank Clark helped when Bennett went down. We don’t have that in the secondary anymore, and I argue not in the linebacking corp either.

          Detroit was an aberration for this unit. Stafford was not Stafford with that broken finger. It had no running game. It was a perfect opponent for an imperfect defense and it fooled me going in to play atlanta. That Detroit game was a paper tiger.

          This unit needs more young blood and as Hawkeye posted way above, it needs GOOD young blood, not just a roster of so so young guys so we can all say “look how young we are as a team, dominance is just around the corner.” Nope, I don’t see any upcoming stars in our backup units to be the envy of the league.

          Draft the youth of the defense and bring them in to learn and push the age, use free agency to refine the offense to get back to an acceptable standard.

        • Cysco

          The defense is plenty good. Doesn’t mean they can’t adapt. I don’t think they need to completely change the entire scheme and I definitely don’t think they need to go trading or cutting players or acquiring expensive free agents.

          They’ve shown a willingness to change things up a bit in the past. This year they blitzed more than in the past. They also showed a willingness to move sherman around the field more. This isn’t completely changing the scheme, but it’s adapting and adding new wrinkles. They need to do more of that next season.

          • JimQ

            IIRC The defense has often been described by many as a “simple defense”, we line up showing what we are going to do and just try to stop us. I have no argument with that at all because the defense has been way above average for years and pretty much has worked out well.

            I find it interesting that the offensive scheme for OL blocking is mostly the zone blocking scheme which requires a lot of mental challenges to those 300+/lb. players, instead of just blasting the guy in front of them, they have to think about where they need to go in order to block on nearly every play. If they want them to be true bullies, they’d maybe need them to just pound the heck out of the opposition in a much more straightforward and less complicated manner IMO.
            –>In other words, why is it keep it simple for the defense and complicate the hell out of it with the OL? + Seems to me power OL blockers should be easier to obtain, as well as coach up, than these zone blockers they prefer.

    • negative neil

      You me, bot I didn’t see Rntioned the Hawks being out schemed

      You mentioned the Hawks being out schemed and slow to adjust during games, but I didn’t see Richard mentioned?

      • negative neil

        Disregard that last post sorry! I just feel Richard is a big part of the problem,

  62. 503Hawk

    As we are all searching for answers, here are some thoughts.
    I remember asking Rob about the offensive line issues back in… 2012! I thought Wilson was going to get killed then. It seems worse now. So does that indicate that there is an inherent flaw in the scheming and coaching?
    I understand how elite defenses can give any offense challenges. But how can so many average defenses challenge Seattle’s offense year in and year out? How many times did the great Marshawn Lynch have to avoid tackles in the backfield? Why do many offenses throw “on time” with quick releases to avoid pressure on their QB but Seattle (or Russ) chooses to hang onto the ball? Does he really have trouble spotting receivers, the all 22 suggest that. And that goes all the way back to the Sydney Rice days.

    You could ask the same questions about the defense. Why does such a talented defense have issues with closing out games, third down conversions, long drives, pressure on QBs, etc.

    Is this team, the players and coaches over rated? It’s obvious that much of the league thinks so. (eg, GB, ARZ, LA, CAR, NE) Does change (at least in philosophy) have to come from the top down? I don’t think the status quo is going to get us back to the top. Something has to change. I’m just not sure what it is?

  63. 503Hawk

    BTW; where is Alex Gibbs? Is he in DC w/ Scott M? Whatever happened between Carroll & Gibbs? Why was he the O-line coach for all of 30 days?

    • Hawk Eye

      he retired
      he is 75 years old

  64. Marc

    It sucks to lose, but it’s not a surprise. In the NFL few teams can stay dominant because of the salary cap. Seattle is in a weird space between pretty good and average. If you look around the league, poor offensive line play is very common. If fixing poor line play was as easy as getting out your checkbook, everybody would have done that by now.

    It’s a combination of drafting, developing and spending. It takes time, patience, and a little luck.

    Seattle’s issue on defense seem to be fairly obvious as well. They need speed and bullies. Free agent departures, aging players and injuries have sapped this team. On the road this really shows up. Nobody was afraid of the Hawks defenders this year. You saw quarterbacks attacking Richard Sherman this year. With Earl Thomas out, teams went to work on our secondary.

    Teams that consistently win have a philosophy and they stick with it. The off-season for Seattle will be fun to watch. There will be hard choices to make with players like Kearse, Hauschka and Britt on offense. Will the Hawks sign Kam to a new deal? Who do they bring in via the draft and undrafted free agency? Which veterans free agents can be signed to help the very young offensive line? Is there a surprise addition to help the defense (Poe or Short)?

    We have a top 10 quarterback — and when you have one of those you have a chance to win the Super Bowl every year. The Hawks just aren’t good enough — right now.

  65. Trevor

    I hope and pray Tom Cable gets the HC job in SF. Have one OC call the entire offensive game plan.

    If he does PC/JC need to get Paul Allen to open his check book and do whatever possible to hire Bill Callahan as your OL coach. He has developed OL all pros wherever he has been. Not sure what his status is in Washington but he would be our biggest possible free agent acquisition if you want to improve our OL.

    If they cannot Callahan from Washington how about someone different like LeCharles Bentley he seems to get rave reviews from all the experienced NFL guys who go to his off season camp and the young guys like Decker who went there this off season seemed to perform well this year.

  66. JT

    I can’t believe some of the comments on here today/last night. I know it’s an emotional time, but the rash rush to judgement is pretty ridiculous. Are we so spoiled by Seattle’s dominance the past few seasons that we can’t appreciate what they accomplished this season?

    – Russell Wilson has gotten a lot of criticism, and I don’t understand it at all. He suffered consecutive lower body injuries early in the season that typically have about 4-week recovery times. Not only did he play through them, he didn’t miss a practice all season. He spent half the season as a statue behind the worst pass protecting line in football, and even when he was “healthy” at the end of the season, he was still not close to 100%. He wasn’t nearly as fast scrambling, and couldn’t drive on his front foot to throw. No, we didn’t see his typical MVP-level play this year, but he was still one of the better QB’s in the NFL, and the circumstances were incredibly difficult. What he did for the Hawks this season was heroic.

    – The odds were always going to be tough without Earl Thomas, and we saw exactly why with Terrell’s performance last night. The Hawks have always had some issues on defense when one of their top defensive stars misses time with injuries (Thomas, Kam, Wagner, Bennett). They run a very tight system on defense, and losing a key cog really has an impact. That said, the system and talent on D is essentially the same as it’s been for years now – the #1 scoring defense for 4 straight years. Offseason work is needed to round out the D, but it shouldn’t be too difficult to fully get back to that elite level of performance. If they can afford Calais Campbell, it would make a world of difference, and possibly propel the defense to a level it hasn’t reached before. There will also be tons of options at DE/DT and CB in this draft to add youth to the defense.

    – Jimmy Graham is a top 5 TE in this league, at the very worst. He’s a centerpiece of the offense, and is fairly affordable. There is zero chance he is cut this off-season, and it’s possible his contract is extended.

    – Culture/Sherman/Carroll/etc. – Pete is the coach until he retires, and Sherman is never going to be traded away. This was a tough year with the injuries, inconsistent play, and the BLM drama that affects every NFL locker room. This team has fantastic veteran leaders, coaching and management, so I’m not concerned moving forward.

    – Tom Cable/Bevell – I question the practicality of having a run-game coordinator and pass-game coordinator in the same offense. There’s a chance Cable is hired by the 49ers this week. I could live with that. Losing Cable may force some changes to the offensive line and blocking scheme that could be beneficial. We’ve had some sketchy blocking in his tenure, but this season was a new low. I think we had the worst offensive line in the NFL this year – anything is better than that. Bevell is criticized a lot for his play-calling, but look what he had to work with this season! Awful blocking in both phases, a statue of a QB, and a carousel of RB’s (18 different players carried the ball at least once this season, 18!!). Even so, they still had a league average offense (DVOA), which is easily their worst finish in the last 5 seasons.

    • GerryG

      ^^All of this

    • LeoSharp

      The issues with Bevell’s play calling stretch way beyond this season. He is the passing game coordinator and he was responsible for the pass in the Superbowl. There is strong Correlation between the hurry up offense where Bevell has a smaller role in play calling and offensive success. He can be a marvelous OC and design a great offense but calling plays can at many times be a hindrance.

    • C-Dog

      Nicely done, JT.

  67. negative neil

    One thing that baffles me is , the Falcons finished 28th in pass defense the Hawks finished 8th, so what the hell happened? Can the loss of one player make that much difference or is it the defensive coordinator?

    • Cysco

      Simple. Lightning fast passes and a lack of interior pass rush.

      That Atlanta offense is ridiculous. The seattle D (or any defense that plays them really) needs to do just enough to slow them down. But, what they really need is their offense to control the clock. Had Seattle’s offense been able to sustain the performance they had in the opening drive, it would have been a totally different game. That holding penalty on the hester return was a killer and those two drives that ended in field goals rather than TD’s were really the nails in the coffin.

      If the Seattle offense controls the clock better ATL probably doesn’t get that TD at the end of the half. If they score TDs instead of field goals on those two drives all of a sudden the game looks a lot different.

      • n egative neil

        Against the 28ty pass defense they should have had more success passing and more points, End of story!

      • GerryG

        Seattle offense twice had a chance for TDs in the redzone (with an open Doug Baldwin) and failed twice. Also missed an open Doug on a long pass that was a TD if accurate. Make those 3 plays and they score 35 points. ATL was always going to get theirs.

    • Radman

      In the NfL if you’re not progressing you’re regressing. It’s a game of adjustments. If coaches and coordinators developing new schemes and plays and personnel packages.

      The players tell us ” you don’t play against the players, you play against the coordinators”.

      This is true in the NFL than in any major sport.

      Why no turnovers on D? Opposing coaches have it figured out. Look back in history- every scheme has a window. Then, adaptation. Evolution. Even the night “46” d was sorted out.

      The patriots are constantly evolving as an O and a D. Look at their history- power run, deep attack, spread, 2 TE, spread again, 2 TE again, power run again, spread again.

      Seahawks haven’t changed a thing on D, really. and virtually nothing on O but for small tweaks for short stints. They need fresh blood on the coordinators end.

      • Ed

        Been on that wagon for a while. It also helps that NE has been in one of the worst divisions for at least a decade. But yes, BB has always evolved, while PC has said we do what we do, beat us. Well, teams have been.

  68. All In on the Hawks

    Bummer end to the season but remember the Hawks won the Division + 10 games + a playoff game. Not bad for a crappy year. Offensive excellence is about consistency and rhythm. The Hawks did not play one single game with Wilson, Rawls, Prosise, Graham, Locket, Baldwin, and Richardson all on the field healthy together.

    Likewise for the defense, when did Thomas, Kam, Sherm, Wagner, Wright, Bennett, the Hawks best defenders all play on the field together?

    I believe in JS and PC. They have led us on the best football run in the history of the franchise! Overreacting is normal but firing coaches who have continuity with the team like Bevel and Russell seems drastic and flat out stupid. Consistency and Rhythm. As most off-seasons this year will be key to extending our run. We have a franchise QB, a great core group, and one of the youngest rosters in the NFL. Losing key players and firing coaches does not seem to be the way to go unless you are the Niners

    1. Keep Graham he is the best TE in Hawks history and given he was 3rd best in the NFL this year & teams have to game plan for him so his stats may be down from his NO days, but what an awesome threat especially when combined with our other offensive talent.
    2. Extend Kam he is the emotional leader of this defense.
    3. Continue to invest in both lines as that is proven to be the way to win.
    4. Improve the run game that has been the formula for the Hawks when super dominant.

    As far as the draft we need to wait and evaluate the Senior Bowl, East/West game, the Combine and our FA acquisitions before modeling a strategy. JS and PC are great at this. Trust them.

  69. BSeattle

    I remember Mike Holmgren saying that he wished he’d gone for younger (hungrier) players on defense, and more veteran players on offense, while coaching the Seahawks.
    It’s an interesting philosophical thought, and one I tend to agree with.

    Currently, the team has invested in the defensive core, and despite the talent level of the guys we have signed to long contracts, there is a price to pay for keeping that talent.
    It is frustrating watching the gradual decline of the defense, and at the same time, it feels like we can’t draft young, talented players at positions that we already have “locked up.”

    Like Rob has stated multiple times, are we really going to invest a high draft pick on a safety, when we have two of the highest paid, most talented guys in the league?
    The obvious dilemma is that both guys are injury prone, and without near-talent level replacements, we have seen the defense’s production drop off significantly when either of these guys is out of the lineup.

    Frankly, with as much talent as we have on defense, we should still be dominant, even without Earl. If that statement is false, then what is the point in investing so heavily in all these other veteran defenders? I question the wisdom in having *any* indispensable player on the team, other than quarterback. If Earl (or Kam) are so essential to this defense running efficiently, we either need to have backups that can replace them (unlikely) or we need to be able to adjust our scheme in order to accommodate less talented/experienced players.

    And maybe we should start thinking about infusing some youth and hunger into this defense once again.

  70. Matt

    After sleeping on it, here are more thoughts:

    1. Pete’s culture works, but it takes player-leadership being fully bought in, with a plethora of younger guys who have no other choice but to follow along or get cut loose. Clearly, there are several veteran leaders who are going through the motions (Sherman). His comments earlier this year really, really bothered me about “typical Pete meeting…” Can’t have it. You can’t have a guy with that much respect, outwardly showing such little respect for the coaching staff, no matter if he is right or not.

    2. The Glass Cannon offense is unequivocally true. Capable of brilliance or sheer ineptitude. And it’s no longer game to game, it’s drive to drive. You cannot win a Super Bowl like this. There HAS to be consistency. You gotta pick Cable or Bevell. Both are clearly not working together very well and I don’t mean this from a “personal conflict” standpoint, but rather strategically and tactically.

    3. The Seahawks have a target on their back when it comes to NFL officiating. Yes, the Seahawks have benefitted from calls, but I’ve never seen a team consistently get picked apart by ticky tacky calls that are hard to overcome.

    4. This offseason needs to be confronted with the realization that tough moves are going to have to be made. We have seen the Patriots make such moves. The Seahawks FO needs to fortitude to follow through on very tough calls, that may not make much sense on the surface.

    5. Jimmy Graham is going nowhere and that is a great, great thing. By all accounts a great teammate and a game changing player. I have no idea why people think cutting him is a good move, at all.

    The tough choices I would make:

    1. I would find a new defensive coordinator. Richard is not ready. The Defense has too much seasoned talent to continually struggle against good offenses. I really don’t care that they can dominate bad teams with bad QBs. That’s not how you win a Super Bowl. The talent is there but it’s not working how it should. The only difference I see is Richard. I think he’s talented, but I do think he was rushed a bit and wasn’t quite ready for the DC role.

    2. Cable or Bevell? Who is it? For my money, I keep Bevell and let Cable go. I think Bevell is very good but he is hindered by the sheer ineptitude that is the OL, who is by all accounts, Tom Cable’s baby. These 2 may get along very well, but the offense is so inconsistent that something has to change and somebody has to be “the guy.”

    3. Trade Richard Sherman. Sherman is still a fantastic CB with value. This has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with “you are not bigger than the team.” There were just too many instances of insurrection, disrespect, and general selfish behavior. I love the fire, but I don’t love the finger-pointing. He placed himself above the team one too many times this year and I think a message has to be sent to the team. Not to mention (I said it before), his casual mockery to the press about Pete’s philosophy is a huge no-no. What are young guys going to do? “Well Sherman shrugs it off publicly, so why should I buy in 100%?” I’ve seen it on my college team and I’ve seen it in the work place. Get a high performer to continually undermine leadership and you have a recipe for an unhealthy organization.

    4. Shake up the OL-scouting methodology. This is common sense, but this team has committed so much draft capital to the OL and has gotten minimal value for it. That can’t happen. You can’t keep spending $100 and getting $20 of value. That’s how you go broke.

    5. John Schneider needs to self-evaluate. He is a great GM who has struggled mightily in the past few years. Bottom line, we can’t keep missing. And yes, I understand that we are in a tougher spot, drafting lower and lower, but we simply cannot keep getting little value out of the draft. Outside of Frank Clark, we have seen a fluke hit on Britt (it only took 2 miserable years and 2 position changes), and 2 small WRs who struggle to stay healthy. This team needs a huge FA and a huge draft.

    Listen, I don’t expect anybody to jump for joy with my thoughts. But I gotta tell you, I feel very, very strongly that some high end players need to hit the road to get this organizations health back. It’s rotting. It’s rotting from the inside and pretending there is not a massive internal issue is only going to result in a full on collapse.

    I am not looking for agreement, but I’m looking for an open mind as to how possibly the most talented roster in the NFL can be so amazing up and down, and continue to underperform expectations for the last 2 years.

    • LeoSharp

      I’m willing to give Sherman another year due to Sheads injury and It really being the first season he’s really gone against the team mindset so flagrantly.I think with the level of leadership he has previously displayed he deserves an off-season to reflect and get bought in for next season. If next year it’s much the same then I think a trade may have to be looked at as a serious option.
      He has had a rough season on and off the field and probably hasn’t played at the level he expected and neither has the team. Hopefully it’s just these frustrations boiling over and not a deeper issue.

    • Trevor


      I can’t believe I am saying this but I agree on almost all points. If you had said any of these things before the season I would have laughed but not now.

      Sherm in particular needs to be addressed. His behavior this year was not that of a good team mate and totally a me first mentality. You can tell it has worn on Pete as well. The public mocking was the last straw for me.

      I hope he and Pete can sit down and salvage the relationship but if not then I agree move him ideally for a 1st round pick as no player is bigger than the team. If you do then you really have to focus on the secondary early and often in the draft.

      • LordSnow

        It’s weird to think but it is possible Sherm is moved into that role that Lynch played where he was the rebellious cat in the house.

    • Hawk Eye

      agree with a lot of what you said, except the “trade Sherman” part.
      Coaches with bad qbs and bad cbs get fired faster than coaches with good ones.
      He can be beat, he is not the greatest athlete at cb, and he has a big ego.
      But he is still by most accounts a top 5 cb and should be for at least a few years more.
      Plus, you don’t get much in trades for NFL players, and with Shead having a serious injury and Lane having a mediocre year, now is not the time to trade him.

      never get rid of elite talent, unless they are way overpaid or getting too old

      • mantis

        i would agree but if one player is a distraction and negative you have to move on from him, a #1 draft choice and 14 mil in cap room would come in handy

    • Marc

      I disagree with your idea of trading Richard Sherman. He’s a pro bowl corner. The Hawks struck gold with him, but there are no guarantees with any draft pick.

      I do agree with you that Cable needs to go away and be replaced by a line coach that specializes in pass blocking.

      John Schneider is a top tier general manager and evaluating talent is very hard. For every Sherman, there are three or four Lazarius Levingstons.

      I agree this is a critical off-season for the Hawks. The cupboard isn’t bare, but it it’s missing a lot of things.

    • Ground_Hawk

      Nice write up Matt. I do not think Sherman is going anywhere though, but there does seem to be something bothering him; what that could be only Sherman knows. Your comment about the OL, “spending $100 and getting $20 of value,” is something that describes the Seahawks OL Drafting accurately, and needs improvement. At this point, as far as the offseason goes, I would be disappointed if Seattle does not bring in at least one starting caliber free agent OL player. They need help, and they need someone who can contribute at a high level immediately.

    • Cysco

      Germain Ifedi
      Jarran Reed
      CJ Prosise
      nick vannett
      Rees Odhiambo
      Alex Collins

      Traded for Jimmy Graham
      Frank Clark
      Tyler Locket
      Mark Glowinski
      Thomas Rawls

      Justin Britt
      Cassius Marsh
      Kevin Pierre-Louis
      Paul Richardson
      Garry Gilliam
      Travon Boykins

      I wouldn’t call that “little value” out of the draft. Now if you want to make a point about not doing too well with low-mid level free agents, then I’d agree with you.

      • bobbyk

        The 2014 draft is brutal.

        Marsh is not good. I don’t care what anybody says. Anyone notice yesterday how many of the money downs were with him, Bennett, Clark, and Avril on the field? Well, Bennett, Clark, and Avril can rush the passer on money downs. Marsh occupies space doing nothing of value. If they other three don’t get to the QB – it’s not going to happen. They are better off rushing three and having an extra player in coverage because Marsh did nothing. Coming into this season, all of us had the same amount of career sacks as Marsh. Now he has three more than we do even though he got to “rush” in plenty of pass rush situations this year. Bennett never puts up huge sack numbers, but he is a disruptor. Marsh had three sacks, but not much else. He rarely disrupts anything. Once in awhile he contains the edge. That’s not a difference maker consistently. He’s a good special teams guy but lets not kid ourselves that he was a good pick early in the 4th round.

        KPL is not an asset. He takes up a roster spot. If all players on an NFL roster were as productive as him and Marsh you’d have a team worse than the Cleveland Browns.

        Gilliam is the weakest link, imo, on the weakest unit on the team moving forward.

        Britt has become serviceable. Solid pick (what had been not a good pick through two years because he wasn’t a good pass protecting RT, and a bad LG).

        PRich hasn’t done much but he’s certainly not a guy any of us are down about. He had the unfortunate injury. He’s not a bust, but he’s not a guy people are going to point to and rave about that pick. Yet.

        If you consistently get two decent players (PRich/Britt) and not much else in drafts, you are pretty much going to rank among the worst teams in the NFL. Even bad teams have some good players, much better than Britt/PRich. No knock on Britt/PRich because they are good/decent, but it is a knock on the overall draft of 2014.

        • Cysco

          Yeah, that 2014 draft wasn’t the greatest, but it wasn’t a total train wreck. like 2013 was. They got a few solid pieces/role players in 2014. 2015 and 2016 have been real solid. We shouldn’t expect 2011 hauls every year.

          Really, if you go back over the last 5-6 years they’ve managed to find a couple solid starters and a couple role players every year except 2013. Compare that to a lot of other teams out there and I’d say the Hawks are well above average at drafting. I just don’t see the draft as a weakness of this front office.’

          They have been really bad at bringing in low-mid level free agents to fill roles though.

        • LeoSharp

          Marsh has had a very good year and was a few penalties away from a 5 sack season. He probably more than anyone else on the line has been the victim of holding calls and doesn’t have any sort of reputation that might influence the call his way. In the first game against Atlanta he was tackled to the ground and he still couldn’t get a flag which would have made it 3rd and 20 on that final drive. If you’re expecting a difference maker in the 4th round then you’re going to be very disappointed. He was also injured for most of his first season while also learning a new position.
          Britt is probably gonna go to the pro bowl his bad play at LG has been replaced by a serviceable guard while he has taken on a new position and excelled
          Prich has finally had a chance to overcome his injuries.
          And Gilliam was an undrafted free agent and has had to deal with his own injuries this year
          That’s 2 starters, and 2 role player with upside. That’s without a pick in the first round.
          The 2013 draft was bad for most teams.
          KPL is the only real disappointment but that’s only due to his athletic upside, he’s a Will Linebacker and has no chance of surpassing K.J. Wright.

      • SeaTown

        You don’t call that little value? Where are the difference makers? Other than Tyler Lockett, i don’t see any.

        • Cysco

          Thomas Rawls not a difference maker? Frank Clark? CJ Prosise? Pro bowl alternate Center? Solid run stuffing D-lineman? Starting LG and RT that have shown some promise? Starting RG who struggled, but many believe has a bright future?

          I don’t know what you’re expecting. The team is stacked with star players. Most every draft pick they’ve made over the last few year was made to fill a role or to be depth. Do you think other teams out there are finding star players in every draft?

          • lil'stink

            – Clark and Lockett are difference makers. The Jimmy Graham trade paid off very nicely this year. Britt had 2 years of complete ineptitude before turning into a solid starter.

            – I see Marsh, Glow, and KPL as JAG’s.

            – Rawls and Prosise have talent but can’t stay healthy. PRich’s play the last few weeks was interesting but he has had 3 largely unproductive seasons.

            – Vannett (I still like that pick), Odi, Collins, and Reed are still TBD. Although Reed did have a solid (yet unspectacular) rookie season.

            – I felt Ifedi’s rookie year was a solid disappointment, and I wasn’t expecting too much. I’m not sure I saw much improvement as the year went on to the point where I’m really hopeful for him next year. His physical talent is undeniable, though, so there’s that.

            Completely agree that it’s hard to improve past a certain point via the draft when you have such a solid core like the Seahawks. Rookies just don’t get as much of a chance for a variety of reasons. But the team really hasn’t got a very good return on the draft the last several years up to this point. That could change depending on how 2016’s class pans out next season.

            • Cysco

              I’m pretty much in line with on you Ifedi. I LOVED the pick and was honestly a bit surprised that he struggled. I really can’t wait to see him next year. Part of me wonders if it just takes a year or two for any OL rookie to get our system.

              Look at Britt. He was hopeless year one and two. Hopeless to the point where virtually every fan had written him off. Year three rolls around and BOOM, Pro-bowl alternate. I’m not convinced that it was the change to center that was responsible for his turnaround. Rather, I think it was two years of game experience and practice. I tend to believe had they left Britt at G or T that he would have been equally successful this year.

              If you believe that it’s the time spent in the system that allows the player to make big strides, then that has to give you hope for Ifedi and company. Fingers crossed it’s not false hope.

          • SeaTown

            Thomas Rawls and CJ have never played a full 16 games. Can’t call that a difference maker until they do. Frank Clark solid player, but no one scheming this D because of Frank Clark. Glowinski is mediocre at best. Did you see Aaron Donald and Calaais Campbell rag doll him 4 games this year? Difference makers wouldn’t allow that. Gary Gilliam a difference maker? Seriously? He was benched this year for bradley Sowell. Let me repeat, Bradley Sowell. Ifedi was horrible this year. He hasn’t shown anything that suggests he will be anything other than JAG.

            I’m a realist. This is a decent that plays in a terrible division. Because of that they will win 9/10 games every year and will be one and done in the playoffs. We are slowly becoming the Houston Texans of the NFC. Nothing wrong with that. In fact it’s great to m make the playoffs every year. But I don’t have illusions of multiple championships anymore.

    • nichansen01

      So many strikes against Sherman this year. Mocking pete, THREATENING reporters, going ballistic on the sidelines… yelling at Bevell about play calling… and well he hasn’t even been preforming like he used to. HEADACHE

    • vrtkolman

      Great stuff, I agree with a lot of the points. I don’t agree with trading Sherman, but I understand the basis of it. #3 has been an issue since the Superbowl win. Atlanta only had 1 penalty yesterday. HAHA, seriously? If I’m Paul Allen, I would want into Goodell’s office and ask him what the deal is. Work it out with a blank check or something.

    • SeaTown

      You hit the nail on the head regarding JS. His misses the past few years are glaring now that the depth of the team has been depleted. Time for a critical self-assessment.

  71. rowlandice

    I would not be surprised if they spent on offense in F/A (OL and/or RB) and used their draft capital to restock all 3 phases of the D. They can and should add talent on DL, LB, CB and S. They’ll use their typical strategy to trade their rd 1 for extra picks in rd 2/3. It’s been said the draft this year is deep with DEF talent. Let’s reload. I know people will want to spend both F/A cap room AND draft capital on the OL, but I think they’ll add competition rather than replace this current OL. But I would like to see the defense DOMINATE again and give the offense more chances with 3 and outs and even more important, turnovers!

    • Trevor

      Agree 100%!

      I think that is exactly what they should do. Add experience on the OL in a guy like Zietler and then a big power RB like Blount in Free Agency or Stewart if he gets cut.

      Then trade back to get another day #2 pick and use at lease 4 of the 5 picks in Rd #2 and #3 on defense to add youth, speed and depth.

    • LordSnow

      I don’t know man. For once I just want to stay where we are at in a deep draft and get one impact player at that spot. We’re getting a high pick among the playoff teams. Just get one more impact badass.

  72. vrtkolman

    Looking at the 2013 championship team, it was largely built off of a huge chip on the shoulder mentality. The LOB was built by people that no one else wanted. Sherman and Baldwin were slighted by Harbaugh (who happened to be the coach of the best team in the NFC at the time, and the Seahawks biggest rivals). Those same players are well paid, winners, and in some cases celebs now. That chip is gone. Maybe an offseason of reflection is just what the doctor ordered. Watch film of Aaron Rodgers yawning during the Packers game, Cobb calling the Seahawks out after routing them, and the media starting to call the downfall of the Hawks.

    • Cysco

      That team was able to generate interior pass rush. This one could not. That team was 7th in offensive DVOA, this year’s was 17.

      You want to know why this team didn’t perform? Look no further than those two points.

      • SeaTown

        That team had an O line. This one doesn’t.

        • Cysco


      • SeaTown

        That team had a decent O line. This one had chump change for an O line.

        • Volume12

          The media calling the downfall? Seems likes the fans are.

  73. Ed

    Can the LOB go away. If they really view themselves that way, that is a bigger problem. They don’t strike fear in anyone anymore.

    • bobbyk

      They do for reporters who don’t want to lose their press passes? 🙂

    • SeaTown

      No one fears them like they used. All their blustering is just hot air.

  74. C-Dog

    Hot takes and bold predictions

    1. The Seattle Seahawks do not fire Pete Carroll.

    2. The Seattle Seahawks do not trade Russell Wilson.

    3. The Seattle Seahawks to not trade or cut Jimmy Graham.

    4. The Seattle Seahawks do not trade Richard Sherman.

    5. The Seattle Seahawks do not trade Michael Bennett.

    6. The Seattle Seahawks do not fire Kris Richard or Darryl Bevell.

    7. The Seattle Seahawks spend a little FA $ for the OL, and for the DL but these won’t be big name players, per say.

    8. With the extra cap $, they look to extend Kam Chancellor and Justin Britt.

    9. The Seattle Seahawks look to continue reloading through the draft adding to the 11th youngest roster in the league.

    26: R1P26

    58: R2P26

    90: R3P26

    105: R3P41

    184: R5P39

    211: R6P26

    229: R7P8

    With a 2017 drat class loaded on the defensive side, Seattle shocks the fanbase and pundits, and drafts defense early and often. They take a top level corner R1, inside pass rusher R2, and a rush LB in R3. They find an offensive weapon in R3. They find mid round value for the OL, late round value at RB, and late round value at SS.

    10. The Seattle Seahawks strongly but respectfully disagree with the faction of the fanbase that thinks they have lost there mojo with the last few draft classes. They love the emergence of Tyler Lockett, Justin Britt, and Frank Clark. They love the big upside of Germain Ifedi, Jarran Reed, CJ Prosise, and dare I say it, George Fant. They also think they will be getting valuable contributions from Quinton Jefferson, Alex Collins, Rees Odhiambo, and Tanner McEvoy in 2017.

    11. The Seattle Seahawks will be right back in the championship discussion in 2017, again playing relevant football in January of 2018.

    • Schuemansky

      Could very well go like that. Would be traditional PC/JS moves. I just would hope they spend more on OL in FA getting at least one veteran with definite starter quality to help developing our too young OL.

      • C-Dog

        I think there’s a good chance they make that kind of FA move, and I think there’s a good chance that they also use a draft pick on another OL. I believe Carroll when he says that they see these young guys as players they want to move forward with, though. I think that’s probably reality.

    • Cysco

      Its A Bold Strategy Cotton

    • Kenny Sloth

      Tepid takes hahaha

      • Volume12

        I’m looking at the CBs they’ve been interested in or drafted. VMAC visitors, drarted, workouts or interviews. Roby, Damarious Randall, William Jackson, Thurmond, Tye Smith, Simon, Sherm, etc.

        They’ve all had at least 43-45 tackles, at least 7 PBU, and at least 2-3 INTs.

    • LordSnow

      Tyler Lockett could be done. We won’t know till next season. Pete is always the optimist.

      • Rob Staton

        I doubt Lockett will be done. Reports were it was a clean break with no ankle damage. That’s a good sign. A broken leg can actually heal quite quickly with no lasting damage. Ligament always carries scar tissue and can give you problems for the rest of your life. Not a nice injury but Lockett should recover.

  75. Largent quicks

    Since the 2013 super bowl win this team has had to face the typical challenges of any super bowl winner. The salary cap, having to make tough cuts (bryant, Clemons), other teams poaching our players, complacency.
    At the same time, I’ve noticed a serious change in the seahawk fan culture. I went to the eagle game this year and it was by far the most quiet Seahawks game I’ve ever been to (at c link or the kingdome). I look around and half the fans are silent, taking a selfie, or generally not engaged in the game. The home field advantage is not what it once was. I’m 34 yrs old so I don’t want to sound like a staugy old man who separates myself from those who became fans after 2012 but geez. C link used to be a madhouse. A house of horrors for qbs. Now it is just another stadium like any in the league, similarly to now are 2016 hawks were just another good team this year.

    If this is the end of the run and the hawks are destined for 7-9 seasons then maybe it is a good thing in the long run. The band wagoners may stop coming to the games which will leave the true die yards to cheer on the team.

  76. ROBERt Las vegas

    Thank you Rob for your excellent article I hope that we can someway or somehow get more turnovers on special teams or defensive I seemed like we could really improve at that and special teams did not have a great year the missed extra points and the KPL yesterday and I remember the block punt against Arizona.we could make some improvements

  77. Vista

    The Packers CB Gunter might have just broken his arm. That hurts the Packers a lot.

    • Vista

      Now it looks like it just was a stinger


    Can we please just draft already? Fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it.

    • Hawktalker

      So what would you do/fix?


        I usually agree with Rob. We don’t know how, but I’d like to add a pro bowl caliber tackle in trade or FA (draft is fine too, but more dubious there), I’d like to add an interior disruptor in either draft or FA. I’m glad Rob is profiling CB’s in this deep class, as I thought it was a definite need even before Shea’s went down (and I like Shead). The LOB was formed by having wave upon wave of suffocating DB’s and we need to replenish that. I’d also like to see a hybrid player added, either a S/LB hybrid to help fill the SAM and back up Kam, or a nickel/safety who can back up Earl, or a LB/EDGE. Someone we can potentially get in the field in multiple ways if necessary. Another OLmen in the draft for competition, if not early then someone with TEFness late. And if there are any difference-makers at WR in the middle rounds to push Kearney (PRich only has a year left on current deal), I’d be happy about that. I’m also in favor of signing Adrian Peterson if it costs $4-7MM, let Rawls overtake him if he can.

  79. Volume12

    A down year for the Seahawks is getting bounced in the 2nd round of the playoffs by a team that no one will stop this year? Atlanta deserves a lot ot credit for yesterday.

    This team knows what its doing. Outside of the O-line maybe. Half way joking. Still a top 5 defense. Still have one of the best QBs in the game.

    • Hawktalker

      Atlanta is a good team. However as trouble but as Seattle was, it wouldn’t have taken a lot to have them ride a momentum wave and win that game. I predict Atlanta does not win their next game. Their defense definitely looked suspect.

      • LordSnow

        I want atlanta going forward, but like you, I just don’t think much of that defense. Seattle’s offense played it’s typical Mr Hyde and made them look better than they are.

    • C-Dog


      I’m pulling big time for the Falcons, and the Chiefs from here on out, btw. Would love to see both I think Super Bowl.

      • Volume12

        Me too. Atlanta vs KC is what I want to see. KC is my AFC team so I’m biased.

        • Hawk Eye

          hoping for KC vs Atl in the SB
          new blood, and i think it would be a great match up.
          plus, I don’t care who wins, so I can enjoy the game!
          hate NE and GB, but with respect.

    • Volume12

      This team knows what its doing. Outside of the O-line maybe. Half way joking. Still a top 5 defense. Still have one of the best QBs in the game.’

      This is in reference to Seattle BTW.

      • Volume12

        And another thing. Seattle won’t be losing any big time guys. Okung, Mebane, and Irvin were pretty huge losses. They’ll only be adding talent.

        • Hawktalker

          Great point. Nice to be building instead of replacing big stars

  80. cyrus

    Here is a plan i would like the seahawks to follow this off season.
    Cut jermaine kearse to make room for free agents
    try to get calais campbell or daontari poe in free agency
    draft the most explosive defensive player on the board round 1
    round two get a left tackle
    round three running back linbebacker or corner

    We need to get the seahawks swagger back so that means domiating the line of scrimage and making anything that gets past it hurt with physical play. people arent scared of us anymore and that is a problem that needs to be solved. We need to gain continuity on the oline and maintain the run I would be suprised if the seahawks brought any big name olineman in free agency because that is not our style, i think they will be confident in gilliam and leave him at right tackle which leave left tackle our biggest need in the draft. We also need more play makers on defense, a freaky athlete at linebacker or another ball hawking db is needed, also defensive tackle depth. I am confident that John schneider and pete carroll can do all of these things this off season. This was a rough season for the seahawks with lots of injuries but that just means our team now has more experience and depth once everybody gets back to full health, i am excited to see what our offense can be with all of our weapons clicking in full gear, but our defense needs some work to regain their swagger.

  81. Hawktalker

    I know will be other options proposed, but this seems like a promising proposition to me. We stop the bleeding on the OL, get better run blocking and pass pro and I think Seattle is instantly, and I do mean instantly, a different team. We have the RBs, WRs, TEs, QB to provide the offense with the weapons to score a lot of points. If we can plug the OL holes until Fant and or other projects are really ready and focus the draft on D, wow!!! Anyone else excited about this?

    “The combined first year cap hits of signing both a Wagner and a Reiff shouldn’t be more than $10m. They can easily afford that even without extending Graham’s contract and lowering his cap number. What they can’t afford is having an offensive line that is so dysfunctional that it prevents them from taking advantage of this championship window.”

    • Hawktalker

      As an afterthought, the other thing I like about this approach is that adding 2 average/serviceable (needed) FA Tackles would also set up bar of a minimum standard. Wouldn’t be a bad thing to say here is the bar, if you want to start, you need to be better than these guys. Once we have starters better than those two guys, we will know we are in a good and better place!!!

      • Hawk Eye

        problem with signing those 2 players is they will cost you $20 mill per year for both of them.
        Not going to happen, even with a low year 1 cap hit. Hawks have a lot of players to resign in next 2 years, so they will not mortgage the future.
        I really doubt they will sign 1 OT for $10 mil/year, unless that person is a pro bowler.

        i could see them trying to get Staley from SF. But for a 3 and maybe a future 4th.
        He has reasonable cap hit for next 3 years, but other teams will also try to get him.
        and that is if SF will trade him. They have huge cap room

        • Hawk Eye

          but Hawks will not be losing any major players this year, so they will not have any comp pics coming.
          So if they are going to sign a free agent, this will be the year they do it.
          With a bunch of players that have to be resigned after 2017 and 2018, they will lose some and not sign FA’s so that they get the comp pics.

  82. Hawk Eye

    for those who want an o line like Dallas (and we all do), they will count about $44 million against the cap next year, and Martin is due for an extension I think. Their top 4 o line count $41 mill. Plus Romo will count about $20 mil if they trade or cut him.
    Dallas is over the cap for next year already by about $3 mil.
    They will have a drop off next year probably

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