Guess I will be in same spot next week watching a struggling team barely keep pace with another mediocre to bad team. Only to come down to a final drive of will they/won’t they make the key play. Meanwhile hearing updates of 9ers curb stomping a team. Can’t wait! Peteball!
It’s hard to win on the road in the NFL. Even against teams that gave up weeks ago and had their backup in. Playoff. Ready.
Troy
Despite everything, I can’t help but get my hopes up when we pull out the W. I know we need to move on from Pete, I know a loss probably helps more in the long run, but man it’s just fun to be a fan and see your team win. Twice the hawks had to have a game winning drive and twice they pulled it off, cherry on top was how great the defense pass rush was, the titans do have a terrible oline but the hawks 100% took advantage.
I’m ready to get hurt again in the playoffs basically
Malc from PO
I kind of expect 3-point low scoring wins over Steelers, Cards, and 3-seed, followed by a close but definitive loss to the Niners in the divisional round. If the 7- seed Rams beat the 2 seed, which is perfectly possible we can beat the 5-seed Eagles or Cowboys, then transfer the Niners loss to the Championship game. All while being a pretty poor to mediocre team. The NFC window is just that wide open.
Mick
I wouldn’t be too surprised if we won in Pittsburgh, another crappy victory, and then with playoffs on the table we get exposed and lose with Arizona.
Jack Frost
I see it a little different. Hawks win out and Rams lose to the 49ers.
Injured at T, nort as effective
They need a RG. Badly
Do we have a C on the roster
When Lewis plays badly
LLLOGOSSS
Unconscionable.
LLLOGOSSS
That would be the most Seahawks way.
Parallax
It’s of course impossible not to have incredibly mixed feelings. I’ve had been 100% cheering us on if Lock were in. But with Geno under center, I was hoping for a loss but feeling good every time we got a first down or made a defensive stop. Feeling schizoid the whole time.
A-ok
As much as I’d love a top pick to get a QB… I always love winning!
Malanch
This seems less 2009 and more 1998 … when the more-aimless-than-terrible Hawks needed direct intervention from the football gods to ensure a desperately needed coaching change was seen through. Could something on the order of a Phantom Touchdown once again rescue the franchise from quasi-permanent moribundity?
Whatever you think about Pete, at least we don’t have Mike Vrabel as our head coach. I don’t know whether I could cope with watching that fking smirk/scowl/head shake vibe he has for 17 games a season.
Ugly win.
vanhawksfan
I would take Vrabel the coach over Pete 1000 times out of a 1000. Style matters less when they can adjust their coaching strategies.
LouCityHawk
First off merry Christmas Eve to everyone!
In spite of this being a frustrating game that confirmed many opinions about the coaching staff and QB, it was a beautiful day in Nashville, and my team won. And they did me a solid since I bet Tennessee at 3.5.
If this game caused you to feel a different way about the Seahawks, then you have over the last two weeks, I’d be real surprised.
On a personal note, this was my son’s first Seahawks game, and the drama may have cemented him as a Seahawks fan for life. In the car is debating the merits of DK versus JSN as his first Seahawks jersey
Geno was excellent today. I feel Pete will bring him back next year, and probably use the top pick not for a QB, but for a linebacker, to be mentored by Wagner, who will also return. Pete isn’t going away any time soon. Nice win, though.
Peter
Geno was nice and solid.
Wagner back….yuck
Lb as the first pick instead of trenches? Actually checks out. Premium picks for non premium positions.
nfendall
He was very good in the 2nd half, but didn’t do much in the 1st. Props to him for playing very well when it mattered most.
Jody Allen – give me millions but F actually trying to win a Super Bowl. Run it back with Geno and Pete!
CJ
Quality of opponent has to matter in evaluating Geno’s performance. I think that while Lock isn’t an improvement, he could have delivered a win here too. The Titans are a terrible team, and were missing their best defender.
Sea Mode
NFL Research: Geno Smith now has four game-winning drives in 2023 (T-most in the NFL, entering late games). Smith has seven game-winning drives since 2022 (he had 7 GW drives in his career prior to 2022).
Next Gen stat of the day: Derrick Henry generated a 63.2% rushing success rate, his highest in a game over the last three seasons (19 carries, 88 yards, TD, +2 RYOE). Henry gained more rushing yards than expected for just the fifth time this season (10 games with negative RYOE).
Kyle R
Russell Wilson led the NFL for game winning drives as well for years. I would guess if we were to dig a bit deeper into the stats it’s because Pete can’t help himself but to play close games were it all comes down to the last drive no matter the opponent and that skews the stats.
Kyle R
*where
Peter
When did we fall on love with the gane winning drives?
I just went back to ’12-’14 and I count 22 wins by two scores or more in that time.
In the last five seasons, ’19’-present,I count 14 times that we’ve won by two scores or more.
I know a ton was made about Wilson and now Geno…but we used to actually beat teams. Looking at weird things like our point differential over the years we are very much just living and dying on 4th quarter drives to keep our heads above water.
I made a joke wish for the Titans gane about a boring one but seriously why do we paddle around in a boat with one oar gane after game, no plan, hoping to have the ball last? I mean it works until it doesn’t like the Rams game.
I’ve said it all season long but I’d like to be good at anything. Not #1 rank. Not top ten even offense or defense. But like a legit quality team at one part of a football game: passing, running, stopping the run, stopping the pass, turnovers, anything at this point.
Peter
I mean boring as in good. We get a lead on a team fielding backups everywhere and hold it.
Not boring as in: Seattle is actually a boring team to watch on a lot of games.
Malc from PO
Obviously on the strategic level winning is great, but I’m just so bored with these games where we play terrible for 3.5 quarters against teams that are too useless to do anything then put together a game winning, penalty assisted drive that is just grinding in its inevitability. I’m probably a bit perverse in my thinking but a game winning drive and defensive stand is only satisfying if there is some jeopardy of actually losing. Neither the Eagles nor Titans showed any capability of holding out or coming back on us. These last two wins I’ve never had any doubt we are going to do just enough to win; the opposition has just been garbage. I think Pete’s advantage of his experience is that he knows as long as you don’t royally screw up, most NFL coaches and teams, combined with soft officiating, will make enough mistakes that you’ll win most games without really doing much. It’s effective but dismal and comes unstuck against good teams. We’re lucky there are so few of them around.
geoff u
Can we rename this team to the Seattle Spinning Wheels?
I can’t believe the number of plays this year where the defensive end were intentionally unblocked,
Not even chipped especially when they have it on tape it hasn’t worked…….not once
I guess it works in practice but then ……
805Hawk
For my own sanity, I’m going to try to just enjoy the ride from here on out. At this point, I think there is zero chance that Pete is done after this season. I think he’ll bring back Geno if they win out, no matter the playoff results, cause they are obviously just a piece or two away (sarcasm font). So, instead of just dreading that every win just makes this more likely, I’ll just enter the next phase, acceptance (resignation?). (Last year was denial and lately it’s been anger.) I’m just tired.
This is exactly where I’m at. Might as well win out and go For Broke because if anything was going to force Pete out he had to lose last week. So you might as well win out and go for it. He will be back I’m 100% certain of that book it like the sun coming up in the morning. And the more this goes on the more convinced I am that Gino is here as the present and future and if you’re going to get a quarterback of the far future it’s going to be somebody in the third or fourth round or something like that. someone like Bo Nix. Wheeeeeeee
Malanch
“… There is zero chance that Pete is done after this season.” –805Hawk
Not to play the chronic hopium addict here, but a dismal finish for Carroll is still in sight. Don’t give up now after coming this far. Strikingly dismal underperformances in the last two games and/or an embarrassing exit from the wildcard round could satisfactorily steel ownership’s nerve, however unlikely this may seem given the franchise’s looming transition. The odds are at least a non-zero, you’ve gotta grant that.
I wish people would stop announcing there’s ‘zero’ chance of things happening, when they have no idea either way what the future holds.
805Hawk
I said “At this point, I think…” as in my belief based on where we are right now. I don’t know this for a fact, but it’s my opinion, that’s all. I didn’t start the sentence with “There is zero chance…”.
JimN
Yeah, just an emotional defense mechanism.
805Hawk
On a completely different note…thank you for recommending Klaus! We just got done watching it as a family. Kids loved it, as did my wife and I. We watch a movie every year on Christmas and this was one of our favorites. Merry Christmas!!
Not an Xmas film, but the all-time worst picture has to be “Night of the Lepus” where giant rabbits overrun the earth, or at least the plastic toys scaled to be skyscrapers, etc. So bad it’s actually a hoot to watch.
I think the worst film I’ve ever seen is ‘Christmas with the Kranks’
AndrewMR
There’s zero chance we draft a DB with a high pick. /s
Phil
Rob – I can’t believe the negativism I’m reading. The Seahawks have a good chance to go 10 -7 and make the playoffs again and it seems like everyone wants to focus on what they perceive to be wrong with Pete, Geno, you name it. I haven’t reached the end of the comments, but I can’t wait to read what folks had to say about the 49ers performance. I thought they were the top team in the NFL (the 9ers), but after last night’s performance, I’m afraid of the Seahawks playing any team in the NFC.
Folks — enjoy the wins and the entertainment. I remember the Tom Flores/Mora days ….
Phil
Whoops – supposed to read “not afraid of the Seahawks playing any team in the NFC.”
The Seahawks have a good chance to go 10 -7 and make the playoffs again and it seems like everyone wants to focus on what they perceive to be wrong with Pete, Geno, you name it.
What exactly is the problem with this, Phil? If people have relevant, legit concerns about the team — should they just suddenly ignore those because of two last-gasp wins against the Eagles and a banged up, fairly awful Tennessee?
I’m constantly seeing people such as yourself telling other people how they should be a fan. Yet I’m willing to bet nobody ever demands you debate the concerns they have. If you want to focus on a playoff push and/or two wins, that’s absolutely your right. I keep saying, I have no problem with that whatsoever.
What I do have a problem with is people such as yourself complaining that people don’t want to suddenly stop having inconvenient yet relevant conversations about issues with the team simply because they won two games. You need to learn to deal with that. You need to embrace people aren’t going to just automatically share your world view and let it be.
I haven’t reached the end of the comments, but I can’t wait to read what folks had to say about the 49ers performance. I thought they were the top team in the NFL (the 9ers), but after last night’s performance, I’m afraid of the Seahawks playing any team in the NFC.
The 49ers were handily beaten by the Ravens, who deserve immense credit.
I wouldn’t crow too much though. The Seahawks were hammered by both teams, are 0-5 against the Shanahan 49ers and are not fit to compete against either. We can say that because we’ve seen it.
Folks — enjoy the wins and the entertainment. I remember the Tom Flores/Mora days ….
Ah yes, the classic ‘I remember the old days so stop ever discussing anything that isn’t entirely positive’.
I wish there was a button you could press so that every time anyone says this, or says you can’t have an opinion because you’ve never played/coached in the NFL, a giant super soaker appears and squirts the person who said it.
I sense your heart is in the right place Phil, so sorry to be this way. But you can only read/hear it so often.
nfendall
The score was similar, but this Miami-Dallas game was so much more enjoyable to watch than the Seahawks game.
vanhawksfan
My least favourite characteristic of Pete Carroll teams is their ability to play down to the competition. God, it’s painful.
Palatypus
When they go low, we go lower.
Group Captain Mandrake
Yikes!, is that you?
Ground_Hawk
There’s players to be excited about for the future, but as long as the answer to Seattle’s qb question is Geno or Drew then being middle of the pack is Seattle’s ceiling. I hope PC/JS draft a QB in the 1st and prepare them to be QBOTF. This team needs that spark again and I haven’t seen it from Geno.
Hoggs41
Not sure why we arent using Charbonnet
AndrewMR
His hands seem worse than DKs
Palatypus
Well, at least we didn’t lose to a 3-11 team at home like the Broncos.
I don’t think we have played up to our potential this season, but I don’t think its as doom and gloom as people make it out to be. We are a good, not great team. How we bridge that gap is one of the reasons I follow this blog.
We need a term for people who come on to accuse people with different opinions of being ‘doom and gloom’
Get to work people. It needs to imply they are unhinged, unreasonable and/or talking nonsense.
Because that seems to be the way things work these days, rather than actually debating points raised
Peter
This is cool. But it’s a full week of football too early since the niners could catch that tonight.
Trust me it’s not doom and gloom. That’s what I felt with Mora.
It’s total banality. Really good wins. Really lame losses…actual beat downs. A bunch if junk teams. And we play a ton of games like a struggle.
I’m just confused how we keep everything the same moving forward how it’s going to suddenly click for our team. To me this is it clicking. From the lions, niners, browns teams that are trending up or are already there they all make systemic changes in process.
I really don’t get the desire to insult the entire blog when you disagree. Make an argument but by dismissively saying people don’t have a good grasp on the league it undermines your point. It also overly simplifies the issues this team has been dealing with for 5 years. If you are content being in the middle 15 teams, that’s fine but I’m not.
The argument has never been “is this team above average?” The argument, at least as I see it, is “is this team on a path to a championship?” I do not think it is in the next few years. If you are content, I have no issues with that but many aren’t. To dismiss those people as not understanding the rest of the league both condescending and wrong.
Palatypus
Well, Andy Heck, if that is really you, that was drafted 15th overall in the 1st round of the 1989 NFL draft, I have got to respect you. Because you played center for the worst five years in franchise history.
I don’t need to tell anyone on this board how bad the 1989-1993 era was. Tom Flores. Bubba Behring. Mike Blatt’s murder trial with Brian Bosworth’s former agent Gary Wishard and his weird connections to Vikings General Manager Mike Flynn. Who got control of…NFL Europe! And the Seahawks almost left town for…Blackhawk???
Yeah, Andy, I would have jumped ship for the Chicago Bears, too, while Mike Ditka’s career was doing…what…Pete…Carroll’s…is…now.
I understand why you romanticize about quarterbacks of the quality we have now after snapping to Rick Mirrer, who was incapable of throwing accurately to the left side of the field. So, I don’t blame you for leaving when you did in 1993, because that was when Jim Harbaugh left for the Colts.
And there is no way I would let that guy put his hands between my butt cheeks.
On this, we all agree.
509 Chris
I have a lot of respect for a guy that remembers the center on his favorite team 30 years ago. Thats some Hank Hill level fandom.
“You guys don’t know the league” followed by an argument that ignores all of the legit points made about this team
Merry Christmas, one and all
Palatypus
Merry Christmas, Rob. I’ll try to make it up to you at the Senior Bowl.
Tony
One thing to see from this week is how close a bottom 5 team is from wildcard contention. Pats, steelers, bears, broncos, seahawks, cardinals, vikings, packers, chargers, titans etc. All easily within reach of each other either way. But the difference between those middling wildcard teams and the elite is just way too big of a gap. It’s just not close in terms of talent and execution. I see no big upsets in the playoffs this year. The top 2 seeds in each conference prob just steamroll the rest. All the parity is with the bottom 25 teams.
i remember when the Broncos had Tim Tebow and Tebow would make a final drive and win games.
i feel the past 2 games were similar that they needed final drives to win. At that time Elway knew fans loved Tebow and he got Peyton Manning and all was forgotten for Tebow.
this team is winning on smoke and mirrors and zero identity.
Seahawk fans who dont want to face reality and believe their team is good enough can just stay delusional. Any form of legitimate pause for critical analysis seems to set them off. An analogy would be to see symptoms of a sick person and the person refusing to believe those symptoms are real stating they are still breathing and functioning and more importantly UNWILLING to address the symptoms to get better. All you can do is observe and watch a slow death due to a closer look addressing the symptoms.
i am so frustrated feeling out schemed and coached. Cant be certain i follow this team until i see hope restored.
drafting a QB wont even solve the problem. its top down with leadership forming a vision and executing it. Getting into the playoffs will be the justification the Seahawks are close when it’s very evident they are nowhere near being a super bowl contender.
Forget QBOTF until PC is gone.
If he’s good than PC stays for additional years but we won’t win the SB. If he’s mediocre PC at least stay until ’25. If he’s bad then PC might retire but we just burned one or more high picks.
It might even be possible that PC or current regime breaks a potentially good young QB.
There are deeply rooted issues with this FO and until they’re gone it’s mediocre land.
A very Happy Christmas to all on SDB Rebuild, the best site for Hawks info, discussion and analysis by far.
Special thanks and seasonal best wishes to the 4 wise men: Rob, Curtis, Nathan and Robbie. Your efforts and words of wisdom weather spoken or written are so appreciated and valued.
We will all raise a glass of Charbonnet together. Enjoy your Christmas Day basking in another Seahawks victory (just) last night.
A VERY Merry Christmas to one and all here on SDB!
pdway
Merry Christmas to all of you…appreciate this board and everyone that makes it worthwhile!
AlaskaHawk
Somehow every year the Seahawks revert to a low scoring first half team. Even when they start out hot at the beginning of the season, it’s play safe, throw the short pass and grind it out by the end of the season. Fortunately they still want fourth quarter comebacks.
It worked pretty well when they had a good defense. But the last few years it has been a roller coaster.
I’m in agreement that we saw Geno at his best this game, and at his wildest/best in the Cowboys game. He can be brilliant at times. When he really lets loose with the passing there will be interceptions. Overall though he’s an average quarterback.
Where would Geno rate compared to past QBs like Wilson, Hasselback or Zorn? Below them somewhere I think.
Anyway Merry Christmas Everyone! Thank you Rob and Curtis for your hard work and continued support.
A-ok
When Geno uses the WHOLE field and the playcalling makes sense, Geno = top 10 QB
When it’s only throws outside or dumps off, or pass, run, pass then Geno = the struggle.
It’s hard to say if thats all on Geno, or if its coaching and playcalling.
I never saw Zorn play, so I’m biased, but I think Geno is on par or slightly ahead of Hasselbeck. He’s a very accurate passer, and makes some incredible throws that I don’t remember seeing from Matt.
Peter
Matt over Geno….only based on career length.
And big, tall, goofy Matt with the Walrus actually brought winning back to Seattle. Contrary to fans that think we went winless from ’76 to 2012.
When Geno’s on its awesome. And I think Detroit needs to watch out if we get the 7th seed and they keep the 2 seed.
A-ok
That’s a fair assessment.
But man could you imagine this team with Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson? My god that was special.
I still think we were robbed of that Superbowl. Big Ben DID NOT SCORE! I’ve hated the Steelers ever since hahaha
AlaskaHawk
I was looking at Geno stats and he threw for 4,252? Yards last year. Well above this years production. I think the difference is protection in the pocket. Geno does well when he has more time and doesn’t have to move around much. Bradley the right guard is struggling with pass blocking. The center is giving him troubles with long snaps. I’m a little disappointed that PC can’t find better offensive linemen in the 3-5 round range.
A-ok
I don’t think our pass pro is the problem half the time. The routes are always so far downfield and slow developing.
Its like early game Geno looks scared to throw in the middle, and late game drives he says fuck it and throws strikes down the middle. I dont know if this is play-calling, coaching, or Geno’s mentality at work.
Dude has an accurate arm, he can drop dimes with the best of them. We have excellent WRs and good TEs, why aren’t we open for him to throw? Are we and he just isn’t seeing it? (There was def some of that early season)
My question about the OL, is why can’t we sign anyone decent? I’m not talking about the awful mega contracts, but other teams seem to find these mid-range signings that play in the top half in the league. That’s all we need!!
I also don’t understand their reluctance to go after a good centre. Its clearly critical to the OL and we just keep ignoring it. Oluwatimi might still grow, but he’s not starting over Evan Brown, so that gives me doubts.
Peter
The ability to sign, draft, develop or just field a function oline has been a real problem.
Imagine this offense the way we thought before snap one, week one. Field a top 8-ish unit. You could roll with a mediocre defense because teams would be forced to press all game long.
A-ok
I have to agree that whatever they do with the OL never seems to yield great outcomes. I dont understand why they don’t value the C more.
We currently spend half the league average on OL, 3rd least in the NFL next to Chargers and Bucs.
If we cut the Safeties and a few bad contracts, and renegotiate the WRs, we have like $60m+ in cap and could allow us to re-align spending into the key positions.
I think that combined with throwing out the defensive scheme is key.
Tell that to Josh Allen and Trevor Lawrence and Jalen Hurts and Dak Prescott.
This has nothing to do with long-term team building. I’ve said before they must draft a QB in 2024 if they can and if not then 2025. I’d argue if they can’t get a top pick in 2024, they still need to take a swipe in the 3rd-4th-5th rounds on someone, and then go again in 2025 for another.
And Geno wouldn’t get that team to the Super Bowl. Geno can get antsy and fall apart at times, gets overwhelmed. I would trust Matt to lead a team. Geno I don’t.
A-ok
If you consider top 10 leading the league in turnovers, disappearing for entire games, or having nearly identical stats to Geno, then sure I guess?
I’m talking about those four. You are describing Geno.
He isn’t in their class. They can elevate their teams, they can take over games, they are difference makers. They can drag their teams to a win. Geno can against…the Titans.
Geno follows the line between fine and good. The others are elite. The kind that Seattle is looking for.
They can also play like total crap, becoming turnover machines for long stretches, not only in games but also in seasons. This doesn’t mean you don’t look for a top guy. It just means that the dudes that pass for “the top guys” are not all “elite.” Very very few QBs belong in the “elite” class.
They are elite. Josh Allen is dragging his team back into the playoffs himself. Jalen Hurts out dueled Patrick Mahomes and should have won a Super Bowl because of it.
“Oh no, they had turnovers!” Are you serious? Are we this randomly picky all of a sudden? These are the guys that you are trying to find. Jeez….
Yep, I can tell that to Dak who is legit consistently top-10, as is Allen.
Geno isn’t a top-10 QB
A-ok
You skipped right past the fact this was about comparing Seattle QBs, and why I even said what I said.
My point on the comparison to Lawrence and Hurts is stats-wise for as much of a disaster as Seattle’s O has looked for 2/3 of most games, Geno is STILL on par with those two statistically.
Geno has the ball skills of a top 10 QB (he was statistically last season), but the hawks suffer from the same problems that clearly prevent Geno from being a top 10 QB game to game, or even drive to drive.
I don’t think this staff is going to get the best of Geno, and so Geno won’t be a top 10 QB. And if PC stays, then there’s minimal difference between what they get out of Lock vs Geno, so I’d run with Lock and make it easier for the QBOTF to step in when we want to give him a try.
However, if we changed staff, things get interesting because I think Geno is a better mentor to a new QBOTF, and if they can get him to play that top 10 level he is capable of, I think he’s worth the $30m for a year so we can sit the kid. It gives us one season to develop the young QBOTF or find one in 2025 if we cant in 2024. Also we run through the majority of the dead cap we generate from cutting the bad contracts this year and we can let Geno go for same cost leaving us with a substantial cap to resign our draft classes and go out and find some quality FAs or trades to fill our the roster for the future.
When I say top 10, I do not mean top 5, I mean 8-10th. That’s 3700-4200yds, 25-30TDs 10 or fewer INTs.
BK26
Geno has more talent than Lawrence 5x over. Hurts has already proved himself: Super Bowl hangover, new (and suspect OC), hurt and sick most of the year. They are the engines of their teams on offense. Geno can’t do that. He also is not a consistent quarterback: drive to drive, quarter to quarter, even throughout the year.
We’ve seen the best of Geno: it is about where he has been this year: fine with good as a ceiling. He’s also not worth 30 mil. He just isn’t a difference maker. They can’t afford him for that amount, so in the end it won’t matter. It’s all a mute point. Bring in a rookie and there will be someone there, slightly in the way until he’s ready. Doesn’t really matter who.
A-ok
We have seen Geno’s best and its top 8-10 level QB play, that’s my entire point. He hasn’t been with this staff this season.
Can we get that more often with a new staff? If you believe a new offensive-minded head coach is the answer, then shouldn’t they be able to get the best of Geno more often?
We have plenty of cap for Geno, that’s not even a debate. We don’t have big holes in expensive areas and have 20+ players on rookie contracts (more likely after next years draft)
If you think we’re still 2+ years away from being competitive assuming we find QBOTF, then why are you worried about short term cap?
We have seen Geno’s best and its top 8-10 level QB play
For about six games last season. That constitutes a ‘hot streak’ not an indication of what he is.
We have plenty of cap for Geno
Well, it is a debate, given they’re $9.5m OVER the cap for next season currently
Peter
Merry Xmas to the crew of the best hawks site anywhere!!
Mr Magic
Well 10-7 looking possible. will be the 7 seed. We have 3 wins vs 10 win teams and stuck right with a 4th in Dallas. All of our losses are vs teams +.500. Most of our wins are vs shite teams, but then again so are every one else’s. Clearly the team has the talent to compete imho, its just the coaching that needs fixing. All the penalties, all the terrible play calling, all the bad signings and cap management.
One great example yesterday. 1st and 10 from our own 5 or so early 4th, they draw up a slow to develop screen that is totally predictable and the defense easily sniffs it out for a loss of 3. What in gods name are they thinking there? You have to run that ball up the gut, at least get 2-3 yards to start that drive. Just idiotic….
Mr Magic
Oh and Merry Christmas to all, Rob why cant we Yanks adopt Boxing Day ffs? Best holiday we dont have!!!
A-ok
I’m not seeing how it’s been bad signing or cap management?
J Reed was a solid signing, and J Love is showing why we signed him. Dre Jones has gotten better since Williams was brought in, I think he’s suffering from the scheme more than anything.
Cap management, I think too many are listening to Rob on repeat. Adams contract had an out in 2024, that never changed. Diggs was playing well, and they wanted to try the 3 safety scheme so they pushed his contract a year and they have an out in 2024 for him as well.
Dead money isn’t as big a deal when you have 20+ players on rookie contracts like we do. It’s the best time to go through it.
Lockett and Metcalf are rolling into the back loaded portion of their contracts which is why we see a big jump in cap hit. They can be extended/renegotiated.
Geno was a beautiful contract, and they paired the Love and Reed signings accordingly, with outs in 2024 if they played poorly. Even Dremont has a decent out in 2025 I think. It looks like they had buitl for two paths, Option 1 if we played well this year they could keep most of the team intact next year. Option 2 if we played not great they could get out of many contracts and look to continue building.
AlaskaHawk
If Pittsburg Steelers play the way they did last week then the Seahawks will lose that game. I think they will go 1-1 for the rest of the season.
A-ok
Steelers are always a tough team, like the Titans. Its because of that Defense. They always come to play, no matter who is in the lineup.
The problem is always their Offensive consistency. Steelers have been dreadful and they’re on QB3. Shut down Pickens big plays and what else is left?
should we predict a third consecutive 20-17 win? hahaha
Blitzy the Clown
Merry Christmas to the SDB community!
I’ve been sidetracked a lot lately by work, and honestly I suffer from seasonal affective disorder and these are the dark months for me. So I haven’t been participating much. But I’m still here every day soaking up as much Seahawks intelligence as I can.
Thank you Rob, Curtis, Robbie, Adam and all the usual commentators who make this place the best damn Seahawks site on the entire web!
Peter
I feel you.
Gers to the point where I’m staring at uv lights on Amazon wondering how many I need to get to spring.
cha
Thanks all the best Blitzy
AlaskaHawk
Try to keep a positive attitude Blitzy. This is a tough time of year for northern folks.
Merry Christmas brother
I feel you. It gets so bad this time of year I’ll actually go for a motorcycle ride if the sun’s out and it’s above 40. Don’t go more than like 40 miles and bundle like a Native Alaskan but I still have to try to feel something that represents summer.
Merry Christmas Blitzy — and thank you for checking in. I hope things aren’t too bad at the moment and if they ever are, we’re all here if you need to talk.
AndrewMR
How many years did Rob identify pass rushers when we were in dire need. Only for them to be available and the hawks go elsewhere with picks. In hindsight Levis would have been the better pick than either of our Rd 2 players. I’m afraid we’ll be talking about QBOTF for just as long as we were edge rushers.
A-ok
I agree they need to take shots at QB. Can Hall and Charbonnet improve and make a bigger impact, for sure. But you’re right, would we really miss them even in return for a mediocre Levis? I don’t care that he isn’t any better than Lock of Geno. He’d be on a cheap rookie contract and is at least mostly par, and allows you to be more intentional in future drafts to only go after the QB you want.
I hope Ewers is eligible this year, because with him added to the mix, there’s enough QB talent that we have a chance to get one of the good ones in round 1. BUT, if we miss on them and Penix is around in 3rd round, we should get him. We have to start taking some shots at QB.
If Ewers waits a year, I’m fine with Penix in 3rd, and then Ewers in 1st in 2025. More teams need to do what the Eagles and 49ers have done with drafting multiple QBs until one hits big.
Blitzy the Clown
We’ll never know who they were targeting with the Denver pick. Could’ve been Levis but Tennessee leap frogged them to take him a few picks earlier.
Mick
Merry Christmas to everyone and special thanks to Rob and cha.
In both aspects. Chiefs are a shell of themselves since Bienemy is gone. It’ll be interesting to see how they blame the refs this game.
A-ok
For sure, but it’s also proof that great coaches can suffer from players failing to execute.
Chiefs making silly mistakes on offense every game it seems.
AlaskaHawk
The Raiders pass rush was no joke, Mahomes spent a lot of time running. The dropped balls certainly didn’t help. And then there was the fumbled handoff that got run back for the easiest touchdown in history!
I was pleasantly surprised to see the Raiders final sequence of runs being so effective!
Palatypus
It is currently 74 degrees here in Pensacola on Christmas Day.
Here’s hoping the Seahawks can learn from the Ravens on how to handle the 49ers offense. They’re playing well on top of the lucky bounces.
Seattle Person
Nope…
I’m now convinced only QBs, LTs, or Def Rushers are worth that package.
ShowMeYourHawk
Baltimore making SF look silly. Cue the “See? REAL fans know we’re better than you give Pete and Geno credit for!!!!” on your local social platform of choice.
6 teams played today. 5 did not look great. Most parity ever in league.
With 7 seeds, 17 games, only 1 bye, away games mattering less. Making the playoffs and trying to get lucky/hot is more relevant then the 6 seed 2 bye 16 game season. NFL is becoming more like baseball where the playoffs are more of a crapshoot.
Leonard Williams in/spoon in/adams out/jsn healthy and seasoned/tackles back.
We could go on a run.
Yep, let’s just ignore everything we’ve been discussing for the last few weeks, many of the issues continuing to be featured in the last two games.
They scraped a victory against a bad Tennessee team missing half a defense with nothing to play for and squeaked by an Eagles team that suddenly looks all over the place.
We can go on a run!!!
AlaskaHawk
No more ludicrous than the announcers saying that if the Raiders won every remaining game and the Chiefs lost every remaining game then the Raiders could win the division.
The announcers weren’t saying that was realistic, Alaska, and it’s not really relevant in this discussion
BruceN
If “going on a run” means winning a couple more games, I say very possible. If it means deep run into the playoffs and a shot at the SB, then no way. We all know this team is middling and has many flaws. But nothing wrong with enjoying and getting excited with the win. Nothing in NFL is a gimme on the road. Half depleted or not. Plenty of time later to dissect what this team needs to do beyond this year.
The Seahawks are capable of beating the Steelers and Cardinals, sure. It’s nothing to write home about and shouldn’t paper over the issues we’ve talked about all season and for multiple years
Peter
The steelers game is going to be weird.
To try-less teams battling to be less mediocre than the other.
We have the better offense. They have the better defense.
Seahawks: -32 point differential ( scored vs. Allowed)
Hawks can go on a run Rob……….ifr other teams decide not to run……the football.
Peter
When I’m watching or listening I’m not sure why any OC calls anything but run or pass over the middle. I would throw about 8 yards passed the LOS over the dline into Wagnerland until Seattle put different personnel on the field.
The niners almost literally did that the last game where we spotted them 9.9 yards a play.
The corners can mix it up but there’s a black hole on the defense and we are going on a few years now of not defending it.
Palatypus
Did this just now on PFN, Merry Christmas!
33.
SEA
T’Vondre Sweat
DT Texas
trade icon
65.
SEA
McKinnley Jackson
DT Texas A&M
trade icon
71.
SEA
Spencer Rattler
QB South Carolina
trade icon
84.
SEA
Cole Bishop
S Utah
trade icon
110.
SEA
Jaden Hicks
S Washington State
trade icon
141.
SEA
Omar Speights
LB LSU
trade icon
150.
SEA
Zak Zinter
OG Michigan
181.
SEA
Zion Tupuola-Fetui
EDGE Washington
212.
SEA
Xavier Thomas
EDGE Clemson
2025 NO 4th
Peter
Maybe more safeties….?
As long as there’s a qb I’m pretty much here for anyone’s mock drafts. Stick and pick? Trade back five rounds and get future firsts til the league is playing holograms on the field. All of that.
ErickV
Watching the Niners lose was a better present than the Hawks win tbh 😂. A takeaway I had coming out of that game was that it seemed like the way to beat the niners is gonna have to be with a dual threat quarterback. I’m really interested in Jayden Daniels and the opportunity to run an offense like the Ravens or last years Eagles .
Peter
Though that helps I thought the take away was hope Purdy throws four picks. Because at three picks the niners were still in it.
I like Andy Heck’s optimism above until I see the niners are so far ahead of everyone that a loss still puts them at the one seed where we still need to nearly win out to get in.
Phil
I think the Seahawks’ QBOTF has got to be a dual threat, not a traditional pocket passer. I’m on the Jayden Daniels supporters list, but other than Daniels, who should I be looking at?
I watched the Baltimore Ravens game and I have a lot of respect for the ravens organization the always seem to have a excellent draft . they play a physical game face it they punched the 49ers in the mouth tonight.Brock threw what 4 picks. They signed Mr Clowney for a one year contract for 2.5 million that’s tremendous value.and lastly John Harbough who basically is motivation guy he leaves his offensive to his offensive coordinator Todd Monken whoI believe was the offensive coordinator at Georgia.the defense coordinator is Mike McDonald who was the defense coordinator at Michigan and he leaves the defense to his coordinator.they seem to get it
Peter
Much has been made of the Ravens moves and drafts over the year on this site. While it’s easy to point to moves they’ve made over the years and admire ( envy?) their decisions what I see a team who has basically done as little as us since they last won their superbowl.
However.
Harbaugh has done a fantastic job this year finding the absolute best coaches he can to run their sides of the ball. Something our coach will not and probably can not do.
Most importantly though, instead of selling most of the fanbase that an absolute dictionary definition average QB is something more than he is they recognized that the need is there for the most important position in the sport.
So if I’m figuring correctly, the 9ers loss last night means they now must win their last 2 games to secure the #1 seed meaning the Commanders and the Rams. They can no longer afford to rest starters and gift the Rams a win the last game of the season. If that happens and Seattle wins its last 2, Hawks move up to the 6 seed. I think Detroit ends up the 3 and Hawks would go there in the first round.
Would a first round win be enough for Pete to ride off into the sunset a winner or would it make him think he’s just “this” close?
*this assumes the Eagles win their last 2 games vs. AZ and NY Giants in which case SF must win out
BK26
Sadly, I don’t think so about retiring. I think he is too optimistic and the turnaround and win streak will be enough to bring him back.
Pete seems like the kind of guy who likes watching westerns and having the hero ride off at the end. Not sure if I can see him doing that.
AlaskaHawk
Plus he has a great contract through 2025. Would you give up $15 million a year?
Blitzy the Clown
I said this in 2020 leading up to the Wilson trade, so feel free to ignore my gut feeling, but Pete looks, sounds and acts like a man going through the motions. That’s not to say he doesn’t experience the highs, doesn’t still get himself revved up for practices and games and what not.
I think he was serious about retiring in whenever that was, 2018 or so. I think he revved himself up to give it one more go. And I think he realizes he can’t achieve his ultimate goal of another championship.
I’ve come around on my wanting them to lose out for a better draft pick and to hammer Pete into retirement. Now I want them to go as far as they can so he can go out with as much pride as can be kept at this point. And if he does retire at the end of this season, whenever that may be, there’s quite a bit of Seahawks pride waiting for him forever.
ErickV
Completely agree with you Blitzy. Early on I was initially rooting for them to lose, although I quickly changed my mind when I realized how different my moods are when we win versus when we lose. I would hope that when the season ends we can experience the excitement of a new coach while appreciating the good times with Pete. I’d also think that us going as far as we can in the playoffs would help us in resigning Leo Williams.
Trevor
SF always like to play the role of bully. They have now played two teams that were more physical than them Cleveland / Ravens and struggled badly against both. Typical if you want to beat a bully you have to punch them in the mouth.
Till the Hawks build a roster that can match them physically they will struggle.
Peter
Watching that game half interested I thought it was odd that the Rams who are way more finesse were able to stymie the Ravens better than any other NFC team this year.
AlaskaHawk
This is especially important of our interior offensive line, they graded out poorly in the last game against Tennessee. Both the eye test and statistics indicate that both guards and center need an upgrade.
Defensively the line is not bullying the best teams yet, but do okay against average teams.
MMjohns195
I think for me the main issue is coaching. We can argue all day over talent, but the reality is that the defense rarely seems coherent for long periods. It’s essentially been since 2017 that they’ve fielded a legit defense. So we’ve had 5 years of KNJ and two of Hurtt, the defense has been atrocious most of that time. There is far too much talent / money invested on the defensive side of the ball for it to be as consistently bad as it’s been. It also feels that they never learn from other teams exploiting their weaknesses. They consistently get targeted on the MOF against the LB’s but rarely target that area as an offense.
I don’t believe that Geno is a terrible QB. He’s fine, he’ll be good enough until they can find the next guy, but the reality is that most teams are constantly looking for “The Guy”. I’d put Geno about the same level as Hasselbeck, i remember how awful he was before becoming the “guy” at 28. Even still he had one season as good as the one Geno had last year, and that was with an elite playcaller and left tackle. The point is that very few teams have “generational talent” at qb, but teams without those guys still win championships. They have a ton of offensive talent, but no consistent plan. They are spending 20m on two TE who never get targets, that’s unacceptable. It’s also a clear function of the offense Pete wants to run, because for years they’ve never been able to utilize TE’s and it’s been 5 coordinators.
Personally, i’ll miss when pete is gone, he’s created a unique environment. It’ll be hard to replicate that in the next coach, but i think change is needed. I am just ready for there to be a competent defense again, someday.
Peter
Don’t disagree with a ton of this though i will say when comparing qbs I think people should review eras. In Matt’s time Tom Brady in 2005 threw 4100 yards 26 tds and 14 ints and was an all pro, probowl, and offensive player of the year candidate.
The league may be way down according to its own efforts to make scoring the only thing that matters but it was a pretty different game even 20 years ago.
BK26
Yeah, different era’s. Back then, teams still ran the ball as a priority. We will probably never see those td records broken like that again (at least by a running back).
To me, can’t compare them. Matt was able to lead the team and held down the job. Geno…we need to replace.
MMjohns195
Matt was only able to hold down the job after dilfer blew out his achiles in the pre-season, i know people forget this, but he lost his job to Dilfer in the preseason that year, Dilfer was going to be the starter. Matt was good quarterback, i don’t view him and Geno as different players. If you stuck Geno behind that line with those weapons i think he’s able to lead them to the same record. You went to a superbowl that year with Matt. The biggest reason they went that year was the defense, everyone seems to forget that, and a major reason the defense was so good is that it was basically the ONLY healthy year of Marcus Tubbs, he was such a factor that it changed the complexion of the defense, that and a healthy Tatupu.
I’m not going to say that Geno is blindly great, but if you’re looking at problems on the team QB is like problem #10. Also just cause you draft a guy high doesn’t mean they’ll be great, see trevor lawrence, he’s behind a pretty talented team and they’re collapsing. You need the right guy, where you get them doesn’t matter.
Peter
Why does no one every talk about how the rarest exceptions what a team needs is actually synchronicity.
The defense was very good that year. Feel like having two HOF linemen and the Alexander had a bit to say about how that team did.
It’s like the endless nonsense about #3. Sure folks. He was just there for the ride….checks notes….a lot of the LOB was already here. As was Lynch.
Disagree about qb problem #10.
Chickens, eggs and all that. Much better defense creates better offensive opportunities. Better offense creates opportunistic defense. The QB on his own is great from 20 yard to 20 yard. He’s also one of the worst red zone qbs.
Essentially to me it seems there’s a few ways to compete. And Seattle is doing none of them now.
Are we closer to top Defense or top offense.
I know history books are cluttered with late qbs who had a year of success or Tom Brady who skews all the numbers. Unless you find Montana or Brady if you’re hoping for sustained success or multiple shots at the ring it’s not some qb you find anywhere.
BK26
And Montana and Brady were still playing in different era’s. People act like finding those late-round qb’s are the only option. This weird fear with actually using draft capital on a guy, going all in.
You don’t have a long window without your guy. You don’t seriously compete without your guy. That is how you get him in today’s football.
I second that probably having the best tackle/guard duo, and a running back who should be in the HOF probably did as much as anything else.
A-ok
Jared Goff is the only top 5 Qb trade that yielded a high-quality player, and even still I question it because he was traded after only 4 years as starter, but he was the piece that got them Stafford who won them a SB… so it’s probably still a win, but its also the reason they declined so quickly right after.
Mahomes and Allen were drafted outside the top 5 and thus moving up was much cheaper. Lamar was late round, Hurts round 2, Burrow, Tua and Herbert, Mayfield and Goff drafted in original spot.
I dont agree with throwing the future away to move into the top 5. It might be different if you have a top 5 defense or OL and QB is all you’re missing, but the hawks are not that.
BK26
No one mentioned trading into the top 5.
No matter what, you find your guy and do what need to get him. If they pick Daniels and have to move up, then they have to do it.
You aren’t throwing the future away. You are getting the one asset that you need. You don’t win without it. I don’t get the reasoning behind protecting or accumulating picks.
A-ok
No one mentioned top 5, just go all in or do what it takes to get your guy??
If the 49ers didn’t luck out on a 7th round Purdy, we wouldn’t even be talking about them as being top of the league.
They traded two drafts worth of top picks for Lance in return for nothing.
Trading up, and going all in are two very very different things.
One requires patience and opportunity, the other is downright reckless.
They traded two drafts worth of top picks for Lance in return for nothing.
And it didn’t screw them forever either.
Which is kind of the point.
Everyone fears an error like this after moving up for a QB. But in reality, the upside (getting a good QB) is far greater than the downside (oh, no first rounders for two years). When you couch it like this, it’s a lot more palatable.
A-ok
MMjohns195 You should comment more, you’re one of the more rational commenters I’ve seen here hahah
I really think the past two games have highlighted the system/playcalling problem beyond the QB. Two QBs, identical results, first drive and last drive and nothing in between. Maddening playcalls.
Back to the past: I totally forgot we basically signed the entire Rams DL hahaha We did have a good defense, but Alexander had almost 1900yds rushing and 27TDs and was unstoppable in the redzone with Jones and Hutchinson. Its unreal to imagine that kind of rushing attack these days.
Alexander in the redzone was as guaranteed of a score as the tush push from the 1yd line.
BK26
A long-term answer at quarterback is not only problem #1, it is the one that is a necessity to be fixed. It has to be done. Noting is remotely close.
You don’t win without a quarterback is elite or has elite talent. Look at the Super Bowl this last year. Geno can’t hang with what Mahomes and Hurts did. That is what the game is today. Are we going to build another historic defense? Is the roster close enough top to bottom to make up for a quarterback that is just fine?
You don’t pass on drafting someone because “ah, it might not pan out.” The Jags have their guy. Now they need to get him weapons and fill out the roster. The hardest part is done.
A-ok
Geno with new staff could be best short term answer, and the kid you draft in round 1 the long term answer.
It’s not that complicated. Its not the answer, it’s the question.
Lock could be ok, but you’d have to have answers on defense and the run game if so.
There isn’t really anyone else available, unless you trade for Fields if they go QB at #1. An interesting alternative to Geno.
Either way, you draft a QB.
BK26
It really doesn’t matter who is under center until a rookie is ready. The guy won’t be doing more than keeping the job warm. Geno, Lock. Minshew, Jacoby Brissett.
There is no other option. Have to draft a guy. And early.
MMjohns195
Thats not actually true though, statistically speaking, look over the history of the Superbowl, it’s somewhat skewed because Brady played in 9/23 super bowls or so but even truly great Qb’s only get there once, maybe twice, see Brees/Rodgers/Ryan. I’m not arguing it’s not important, but the biggest reason seattle hasn’t really been a threat since 2017 is not the Offense/QB but the terrible defense they’ve run out there since then. I think Qb is something they need to find, but it’d put it behind whatever it takes to get the defense in to the top 1/3 of the league. Even with spotty play by Geno (missing both tackles the majority of the year), they should’ve won a few more games than they have, alot of that comes down to quite frankly awful defense.
I can’t think of many games this year where you can look and say, yeah Geno cost us that game, but you can point to about 5/6 where you can say that about the defense. I still think it’s more about coaching / scheme with the defense than personel, but without changing the HC i don’t know how you improve it. So it remains to be seen i guess.
Mahomes is in a class by himself, i don’t think anyone is going to argue that, but Hurts isn’t the only reason why the Eagles are successful. I’ll die on the hill that i think Lawrence is a completely overrated QB. Jacksonville won’t win anything big with him there, i just don’t see it, granted that’s just my opinon which means jack-all, but it remains my opinion. If Seattle had a top 15 defense and was still struggling like this then, yes i’d agree qb is the problem, but as it stands to me, you have to get the defense fixed before even a great QB will win anything here.
BK26
Last 10 Super Bowl winners: Brady, Mahomes, Stafford, Russ, Manning, Foles.
One won from elite defense only, one won with about the best overall roster and a game manager. Us and the Pats were just the best. So all were elite but two?
Hurts runs the Eagles offense. Take him out and it is toothless. Geno isn’t a difference maker. You just don’t win the Super Bowl without one (unless we are trying to build another LOB or make the rest of the roster Pro Bowlers). That’s just how it is. Offense wins. An elite qb wins.
QB is the equalizer. Clearly we have spent…enough in the defense. Should we keep plugging assets into that rising dam and see if that fixes the issue? Or solve the biggest hole on the team and the best way to get a championship and also open a legitimate, long-term window?
MMjohns195
Ok So lets examine that a bit further. I’ve been saying Qb is the lowest of the problems, i’m acknowledging it is a problem just not that high of a problem. The biggest issue i’ve been talking about is that the defense is SO far away from being competitive that it makes the QB a moot point. Going off the last 10 years only (13-22) the average Offensive ranking was 5.7 and the average defensive ranking was 7.1. The lowest ranked defense to win was 16th, while the lowest offense to win was 19th.
The point i’m making is that while having a good quarterback can get you there and win you games, the problem by and large is that no one, wins a superbowl without at least a competent to above average defense. Geno is closer to being Mahomes than the defense is to being the 2013 LOB. Until they get exponentially better on defense who the quarterback is isn’t going to matter, and quite frankly then we’ll be having the conversation, much like we were in 2015-2020 that the defense is wasting the QB’s prime years.
So yes i think they have to fix the defense, and once they’re on that path, then the QB matters. I would say i trust schneider, and if he identifies a QB in the draft that he sees as the guy, then i’d trust him. I’m not going to be upset or surprised when if/when they pass on QB.
It’s time to make use of that or find someone who can, then draft a QB
Otherwise we’re spinning wheels in the mud forever
BK26
And I’m saying that quarterback isn’t just the number one problem, it is the one that HAS to be addressed. This coming year. With the last two drafts classes, their youth is being wasted. Can’t afford to wait around and hope the building the rest of the defense up will happen. Besides already having one of the most expensive defenses in the league.
It’s easier to get a middling, competent defense than to find your quarterback. They will do nothing without seriously upgrading the defense. This has to be done, otherwise anything else will be moot.
MMjohns195
Rob, I’m agreeing with you, i think that the defense has had a ton of money/picks invested in it for little return. I think that this goes beyond this coordinator, this has been 7 years of subpar defense. I do not know what else to do other than change the head person at this point, because it goes beyond the coordinators.
We’ve been spinning our wheels in the mud for 7 years. My final counterpoint was it’s clearly not easier to get a middling competent defense than a QB, because if they’d have just had that defense with Russell they’d have won more games than they had or gone further. So based on results getting the middling defense was/is far harder for this regime than a functional / good QB.
I think it is easier — the problem is the Head Coach
Phil
Matt also had Shawn Alexander who, if I remember correctly, set what was then the TD scoring record.
AlaskaHawk
Geno isn’t great and he isn’t speedy. But no matter who the quarterback is it is rare to have consistent wins without a running game. Someone has to take the pressure off the quarterback by running, and also the short yardage plays. Wouldn’t it be great if the Seahawks could consistently pick up 2 yards as needed? The Eagles figured it out with their tush push, but their offensive line is so solid.
Mahomes with KC was running for his life on passing plays, and also scrambling like crazy for yards. I would love to see Seahawks pick up a running quarterback like Daniels.
BK26
I’m getting more and more intrigued by Daniels. Problem is, I think the Saints will sell the farm to get him.
Peter
In hawks land where people think Penix is the third QB off the board I agree with you. Saints are the team that moves up for Daniels.
As of today ATL has the 10 pick one before Saints and I think if the Saints dint move ATL is Daniels floor.
BK26
I agree. I think 10 is the absolute floor. I think it might be higher than that, but without looking and the draft order changing, he’s just too good and intriguing.
AlaskaHawk
It wouldn’t surprise me if the Raiders and Chargers were in the market for quarterbacks too. That new Raiders coach is awesome and he strikes me as the type that would go for an elite quarterback if he can (nothing against O’Connell).
BK26
Chargers?
MMjohns195
My biggest gripe with this team has been that in the early days with Lynch, when they needed a yard, they’d line up Mike Rob and run power behind him. Can we please just have a fullback or a TE play fullback for these plays. I would kill for this.
Andy J
We actually have a FB who we are paying $2,600,000 this year. Who we’ve paid $6,500,000 in previous contracts. And who we owe $4,000,000 next year.
A-ok
This is why I think Fields would be an interesting option if the Bears draft a QB. Could maybe be had for cheap, maybe even trade Lock or Geno to serve as the vet backup for their #1 pick.
For those who always black and white everything —-> I WOULD STILL DRAFT A QB.
Imagine the threat of Fields and Walker. Fields looks much better with DJ Moore. I think having DK, Lockett and JSN would be extremely interesting.
It would even be an interesting option if we couldn’t snag a top QB pick in 2024.
BK26
I’d rather not take on any more castoffs from other teams. That is why we are in our current situation.
Guy still doesn’t know how to play the position, so I would rather not waste resources or time. We’re too good to bring in a glorified running back and see what he can do in year four all of a sudden.
A-ok
Lamar Jackson wasn’t much different. He had limited weapons to go to, and was very much run first. But he also had a top defence and a bully of an OL.
Fields was on one of the worst teams in the league, with no weapons until this year. Even the first half of this year until they traded for Sweat, the D was AWFUL. He has played MUCH better with Moore but he’s been playing injured half the year.
Give Fields the weapons we have, combined with his running, and I think it would by dynamic. Just not with our coaching staff. We would need a more creative offensive-minded staff for it to work.
You want them to take shots to find their guy dontcha? Fields is 24yrs old, if you can swing him for a 5th rounder then cut(or trade) Geno and Lock, and draft a QB. If Fields doesn’t play well, his contract expires end of 2024, low cost bridge, easy to move on.
And yet all of the issues which were evident and discussed when he had the luxury of playing for Ohio State, have shown up with bells on in the NFL
For what it’s worth, the Bears are not trading him for a fifth rounder either. The Niners got a fourth for Trey Lance and he’s achieved nothing in the league and barely played.
Fields vs Lamar coming into the league are definitely not the same thing. Lamar was at least capable of playing eh position. Fields still looks lost. Lamar hd limited weapons IN COLLEGE and was able to produce. Fields had the best of everything and still looked like a running back in the backfield.
It’s not taking a shot, it’s wasting time and resources. No more castoffs and guys that aren’t QBOTF.
Fields is a turnover machine and he’s coming to the end of his cheap rookie deal
No.
Blitzy the Clown
Watching MNF and the Ravens front 7 manhandle the 49ers (no disrespect meant for the Ravens secondary, who also had a brilliant night). Hearing names like blog favorite DTs Justin Madubuike and Travis Jones repeatedly called for the tackle, the sack, the fumble, just drives home the long standing argument of focusing your most important resource — draft capital — on positions as close to the ball as possible (read: in the trenches).
Mike Macdonald is one very, very impressive DC. He’s probably the one defensive minded coach I’d want to replace Carroll.
Much appreciation for the kind words of sympathy and encouragement.
Another sterling example of what makes this place so special.
509 Chris
I thought the team looked fine but when the qb throws 3 picks in the first half it demoralizes the defense. Without the picks they were moving the ball pretty much at will during the 1st half especially the first quarter, and going into the half it was only a 4 point game with SFs d doing an ok job containing Lamar. When Purdy threw that 4th interception it took the wind right out of the D’s sails.
He’s had a few games now where he finally is looking like a rookie, or someone who has only just played one full season as a starter. I guess you’re right that the Ravens D line had a lot to do with that. I’d also like to see Seattle spend real resources in the trenches, but watching a mobile qb run everywhere and throw all over the field has me really liking Daniels. He’s probably qb 2 though so I don’t see us getting there.
Troy
What was clear to me was the toughness and physicality of the Ravens and Niners. For comparisons sake, the Seahawks are like a powder puff team on those two traits alone.
“People don’t want to play the style of football we like to play. They are a physical team. They are that aggressive team. But I think our brand of football outmatches anybody. We know they don’t believe that people can tackle them for four quarters. We’re the team to do that.”
ShowMeYourHawk
“Tac-kle?” You’ve baffled the Seahawks defensive starters with that one.
A-ok
Last two games they’ve tackled much better, oddly since Adams hasn’t played Diggs has stopped diving at ankles as well.
Blitzy the Clown
Did I read somewhere that in the last two games since Love moved to Adams position, he and Diggs are PFF’s top graded safety duo?
Haven’t seen the Titans scores but Love got a 94 and Diggs a 68 vs Philly
IHeartTacoma
I’m all in for poaching the Raven coaching and GM staffs. Get Ozzie Newsome as special consultant to the billionairess, and rule the NFC.
ShowMeYourHawk
Not typically a fan of The Hawk’s Nest’s commentary, as it’s amongst the most reactive as opposed to data based but he breaks down the Jamal saga from it’s inception:
I don’t know the M-O or the history of The Hawks Nest, but these types of pieces I tend to scoff at a little.
The ground is very, very, Very soft right now and ripe for Adams trade criticism.
People were popping champagne corks over the trade and then later over the sacks record. Understanding that the cost was astronomical and the benefit was nil was not beyond comprehension, yet overzealous positivity reigned so hard over this trade for so long, even now after a whole year of injury, a sloppy debut, league fines for abusing doctors…twice…still didn’t blunt the positivity of many.
It’s only in the lens of another poor year of play and this Twitter spat and Adams publicly doubling down has the tide started to turn.
It’s very safe to criticize Adams now and they’re pouring in by the dozens.
I am not saying anyone who criticizes Adams or the Seahawks now over this whole thing is a hypocrite. Everyone approaches their process differently.
But the piling on of Adams criticism does seem to equally mirror the piling on of the praise early on and that’s just unfortunate.
MMjohns195
Personally i always thought the cost was high and not worth it, but they seemed to think the price was worth it, and frankly a guy who’d never been injured gets here and then just gets zapped by his injuries, we’ll never get the version of Adams we traded for, that’s the unfortunate part.
The last injury he had i thought was going to end his career, and honestly it seems like its going to. He’s like 60% of what he once was, and that’s not a functional football player.
For me, his attitude the last few weeks was the real icing, you can’t talk all that smack, then play poorly and react poorly to people calling you out on it. I wish jamal the best in life, because i think this is it for him, i don’t see him making another NFL roster after this. I keep thinking of the snowball effect the Mcdowell incident had, the trade for rankins, then clowney, then adams.
Cha you’re right in thinking that it’s soft ground, it’s popular to rip on him now and i suspect that it’s going to continue until June 1st….
I think you mean Richardson, not Rankins. Regardless though your “snowball effect” point beginning with McDowell and ending with Adams is excellent. I’d add letting Frank Clark go and trying to replace him with LJ Collier and you’ve got a pass rush disaster for a number of years.
MMjohns195
Mike you are correct, i typed Richardson in my mind. Yes, i’d agree on the Clark point too, though if you look back at that draft, i think it just got away from them. That was the one in which they traded down from 21 to 30th and ended up with 29/30. I think they had like 4/5 guys they liked but they all got picked before them and Collier was the best of the rest in their eyes. I think it was a huge point of getting too cute, subsequently the 2022/2023 drafts were just picking the best guys.
Concur. Rob did make the point recently that they had the ammo to move up in that draft to get one of the guys they wanted (Gary, Burns). Unfortunately they don’t seem to be aggressive like that in drafting. Sadly that does not bode well for a move up for a QB in ’24. Guess there’s always a first time.
Well said Curtis. Happy to be part of a group on this site that could see the trade and the player were not good by the end of his first season in Seattle. A number of us felt like he was not worth a new contract after that season and I believe you and Rob were writing as such.
I’d also guess that his “misuse” as stated in the video may have been the coaches knowing he was physically incapable of fulfilling the role envisioned for him initially especially since video proof of business decisions would support that.
He’s done in the NFL imo.
ShowMeYourHawk
Essentially agreed but like I said, it’s post-Xmas content for those that might consume such.
Regardless if it’s become en vogue to dump on Adams, it’s still nice to see that those of us that hated the move from its inception were eventually justified.
I just wonder if those of us who criticised the trade, analysed why the sacks were a mirage in year one, never wanted to pay him (and argued strongly against it after his first year) and were constantly hammered for daring to challenge everything about this deal will now get a bit of cred for, you know, being right.
I’m not holding my breath, having lived through the Wilson trade saga, the well informed opinion that Jaylen Carter won’t be a Seahawk period, the pass rush isn’t good enough concern of 2020/21 and the increasingly relevant talk that the Carroll era has come to a stalled stop.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK19iX3L87w
Indeed
Guess I will be in same spot next week watching a struggling team barely keep pace with another mediocre to bad team. Only to come down to a final drive of will they/won’t they make the key play. Meanwhile hearing updates of 9ers curb stomping a team. Can’t wait! Peteball!
Darn sarcasm font.
This was supposed to be on my comment below.
It’s hard to win on the road in the NFL. Even against teams that gave up weeks ago and had their backup in. Playoff. Ready.
Despite everything, I can’t help but get my hopes up when we pull out the W. I know we need to move on from Pete, I know a loss probably helps more in the long run, but man it’s just fun to be a fan and see your team win. Twice the hawks had to have a game winning drive and twice they pulled it off, cherry on top was how great the defense pass rush was, the titans do have a terrible oline but the hawks 100% took advantage.
I’m ready to get hurt again in the playoffs basically
I kind of expect 3-point low scoring wins over Steelers, Cards, and 3-seed, followed by a close but definitive loss to the Niners in the divisional round. If the 7- seed Rams beat the 2 seed, which is perfectly possible we can beat the 5-seed Eagles or Cowboys, then transfer the Niners loss to the Championship game. All while being a pretty poor to mediocre team. The NFC window is just that wide open.
I wouldn’t be too surprised if we won in Pittsburgh, another crappy victory, and then with playoffs on the table we get exposed and lose with Arizona.
I see it a little different. Hawks win out and Rams lose to the 49ers.
The Steeler game is here in Seattle.
I have tickets for the game but a family situation came up so I can’t go. I gave them to a Steeler fan buddy and honestly I’m not overly sad about it.
You won’t be missing much. Fans live or die with their team. I’m tired of dying.
10x more excited for the Winter Classic
What makes the OL bad.
Injured at T, nort as effective
They need a RG. Badly
Do we have a C on the roster
When Lewis plays badly
Unconscionable.
That would be the most Seahawks way.
It’s of course impossible not to have incredibly mixed feelings. I’ve had been 100% cheering us on if Lock were in. But with Geno under center, I was hoping for a loss but feeling good every time we got a first down or made a defensive stop. Feeling schizoid the whole time.
As much as I’d love a top pick to get a QB… I always love winning!
This seems less 2009 and more 1998 … when the more-aimless-than-terrible Hawks needed direct intervention from the football gods to ensure a desperately needed coaching change was seen through. Could something on the order of a Phantom Touchdown once again rescue the franchise from quasi-permanent moribundity?
Whatever you think about Pete, at least we don’t have Mike Vrabel as our head coach. I don’t know whether I could cope with watching that fking smirk/scowl/head shake vibe he has for 17 games a season.
Ugly win.
I would take Vrabel the coach over Pete 1000 times out of a 1000. Style matters less when they can adjust their coaching strategies.
First off merry Christmas Eve to everyone!
In spite of this being a frustrating game that confirmed many opinions about the coaching staff and QB, it was a beautiful day in Nashville, and my team won. And they did me a solid since I bet Tennessee at 3.5.
If this game caused you to feel a different way about the Seahawks, then you have over the last two weeks, I’d be real surprised.
On a personal note, this was my son’s first Seahawks game, and the drama may have cemented him as a Seahawks fan for life. In the car is debating the merits of DK versus JSN as his first Seahawks jersey
Heck yeah!! Probably can’t go wrong with either.
Glad you and your son enjoyed and congrats on cashing in.
Quality road victory. Clutch performance by defense with spoon out.
“Intellect of a biscuit”. 😂
Have a good Christmas Rob!
Is that kind of like “IQ ten points higher than a geranium “?
Seattle Seahawks 2023 – At least we don’t suck and can beat bad teams.
*closely* beat bad teams.
Geno was excellent today. I feel Pete will bring him back next year, and probably use the top pick not for a QB, but for a linebacker, to be mentored by Wagner, who will also return. Pete isn’t going away any time soon. Nice win, though.
Geno was nice and solid.
Wagner back….yuck
Lb as the first pick instead of trenches? Actually checks out. Premium picks for non premium positions.
He was very good in the 2nd half, but didn’t do much in the 1st. Props to him for playing very well when it mattered most.
Jody Allen – give me millions but F actually trying to win a Super Bowl. Run it back with Geno and Pete!
Quality of opponent has to matter in evaluating Geno’s performance. I think that while Lock isn’t an improvement, he could have delivered a win here too. The Titans are a terrible team, and were missing their best defender.
Russell Wilson led the NFL for game winning drives as well for years. I would guess if we were to dig a bit deeper into the stats it’s because Pete can’t help himself but to play close games were it all comes down to the last drive no matter the opponent and that skews the stats.
*where
When did we fall on love with the gane winning drives?
I just went back to ’12-’14 and I count 22 wins by two scores or more in that time.
In the last five seasons, ’19’-present,I count 14 times that we’ve won by two scores or more.
I know a ton was made about Wilson and now Geno…but we used to actually beat teams. Looking at weird things like our point differential over the years we are very much just living and dying on 4th quarter drives to keep our heads above water.
I made a joke wish for the Titans gane about a boring one but seriously why do we paddle around in a boat with one oar gane after game, no plan, hoping to have the ball last? I mean it works until it doesn’t like the Rams game.
I’ve said it all season long but I’d like to be good at anything. Not #1 rank. Not top ten even offense or defense. But like a legit quality team at one part of a football game: passing, running, stopping the run, stopping the pass, turnovers, anything at this point.
I mean boring as in good. We get a lead on a team fielding backups everywhere and hold it.
Not boring as in: Seattle is actually a boring team to watch on a lot of games.
Obviously on the strategic level winning is great, but I’m just so bored with these games where we play terrible for 3.5 quarters against teams that are too useless to do anything then put together a game winning, penalty assisted drive that is just grinding in its inevitability. I’m probably a bit perverse in my thinking but a game winning drive and defensive stand is only satisfying if there is some jeopardy of actually losing. Neither the Eagles nor Titans showed any capability of holding out or coming back on us. These last two wins I’ve never had any doubt we are going to do just enough to win; the opposition has just been garbage. I think Pete’s advantage of his experience is that he knows as long as you don’t royally screw up, most NFL coaches and teams, combined with soft officiating, will make enough mistakes that you’ll win most games without really doing much. It’s effective but dismal and comes unstuck against good teams. We’re lucky there are so few of them around.
Can we rename this team to the Seattle Spinning Wheels?
Nope sorry, it’s already the Seattle Carrolls
I can’t believe the number of plays this year where the defensive end were intentionally unblocked,
Not even chipped especially when they have it on tape it hasn’t worked…….not once
I guess it works in practice but then ……
For my own sanity, I’m going to try to just enjoy the ride from here on out. At this point, I think there is zero chance that Pete is done after this season. I think he’ll bring back Geno if they win out, no matter the playoff results, cause they are obviously just a piece or two away (sarcasm font). So, instead of just dreading that every win just makes this more likely, I’ll just enter the next phase, acceptance (resignation?). (Last year was denial and lately it’s been anger.) I’m just tired.
Sure, bring Geno back BUT PLEASE DRAFT THE QBOTF
This is exactly where I’m at. Might as well win out and go For Broke because if anything was going to force Pete out he had to lose last week. So you might as well win out and go for it. He will be back I’m 100% certain of that book it like the sun coming up in the morning. And the more this goes on the more convinced I am that Gino is here as the present and future and if you’re going to get a quarterback of the far future it’s going to be somebody in the third or fourth round or something like that. someone like Bo Nix. Wheeeeeeee
“… There is zero chance that Pete is done after this season.” –805Hawk
Not to play the chronic hopium addict here, but a dismal finish for Carroll is still in sight. Don’t give up now after coming this far. Strikingly dismal underperformances in the last two games and/or an embarrassing exit from the wildcard round could satisfactorily steel ownership’s nerve, however unlikely this may seem given the franchise’s looming transition. The odds are at least a non-zero, you’ve gotta grant that.
I wish people would stop announcing there’s ‘zero’ chance of things happening, when they have no idea either way what the future holds.
I said “At this point, I think…” as in my belief based on where we are right now. I don’t know this for a fact, but it’s my opinion, that’s all. I didn’t start the sentence with “There is zero chance…”.
Yeah, just an emotional defense mechanism.
On a completely different note…thank you for recommending Klaus! We just got done watching it as a family. Kids loved it, as did my wife and I. We watch a movie every year on Christmas and this was one of our favorites. Merry Christmas!!
It’s a great film
Not an Xmas film, but the all-time worst picture has to be “Night of the Lepus” where giant rabbits overrun the earth, or at least the plastic toys scaled to be skyscrapers, etc. So bad it’s actually a hoot to watch.
I think the worst film I’ve ever seen is ‘Christmas with the Kranks’
There’s zero chance we draft a DB with a high pick. /s
Rob – I can’t believe the negativism I’m reading. The Seahawks have a good chance to go 10 -7 and make the playoffs again and it seems like everyone wants to focus on what they perceive to be wrong with Pete, Geno, you name it. I haven’t reached the end of the comments, but I can’t wait to read what folks had to say about the 49ers performance. I thought they were the top team in the NFL (the 9ers), but after last night’s performance, I’m afraid of the Seahawks playing any team in the NFC.
Folks — enjoy the wins and the entertainment. I remember the Tom Flores/Mora days ….
Whoops – supposed to read “not afraid of the Seahawks playing any team in the NFC.”
What exactly is the problem with this, Phil? If people have relevant, legit concerns about the team — should they just suddenly ignore those because of two last-gasp wins against the Eagles and a banged up, fairly awful Tennessee?
I’m constantly seeing people such as yourself telling other people how they should be a fan. Yet I’m willing to bet nobody ever demands you debate the concerns they have. If you want to focus on a playoff push and/or two wins, that’s absolutely your right. I keep saying, I have no problem with that whatsoever.
What I do have a problem with is people such as yourself complaining that people don’t want to suddenly stop having inconvenient yet relevant conversations about issues with the team simply because they won two games. You need to learn to deal with that. You need to embrace people aren’t going to just automatically share your world view and let it be.
The 49ers were handily beaten by the Ravens, who deserve immense credit.
I wouldn’t crow too much though. The Seahawks were hammered by both teams, are 0-5 against the Shanahan 49ers and are not fit to compete against either. We can say that because we’ve seen it.
Ah yes, the classic ‘I remember the old days so stop ever discussing anything that isn’t entirely positive’.
I wish there was a button you could press so that every time anyone says this, or says you can’t have an opinion because you’ve never played/coached in the NFL, a giant super soaker appears and squirts the person who said it.
I sense your heart is in the right place Phil, so sorry to be this way. But you can only read/hear it so often.
The score was similar, but this Miami-Dallas game was so much more enjoyable to watch than the Seahawks game.
My least favourite characteristic of Pete Carroll teams is their ability to play down to the competition. God, it’s painful.
When they go low, we go lower.
Yikes!, is that you?
There’s players to be excited about for the future, but as long as the answer to Seattle’s qb question is Geno or Drew then being middle of the pack is Seattle’s ceiling. I hope PC/JS draft a QB in the 1st and prepare them to be QBOTF. This team needs that spark again and I haven’t seen it from Geno.
Not sure why we arent using Charbonnet
His hands seem worse than DKs
Well, at least we didn’t lose to a 3-11 team at home like the Broncos.
That 3rd round pick just moved up!
We have the lower of Denver and New Orleans’ picks, so we didn’t move up
Doh!
But New Orleans lost on Thursday night, so didn’t we either way?
#66? Satan? On Christmas?
Go to heck Andy.
It’s actually 666 in the Book of Revelations and it’s the mark of the beast and the mark of man. A little more nuanced than football…
The NFL uniform code does not allow players to have triple-digit numbers.
Nuance? Do you want nuance?
Santa is an anagram for Satan!
Play that vinyl Led Zeppelin record backward and you will understand.
Is that Sad Santa? Where the band is clearly spoiling childrens minds telling them santa isnt real.
I am on to you Krampus. That’s why you signed with the Chicago Bears.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/comments/18q73fu/the_seattle_seahawks_are_the_only_team_in_the/
Food for thought.
I don’t think we have played up to our potential this season, but I don’t think its as doom and gloom as people make it out to be. We are a good, not great team. How we bridge that gap is one of the reasons I follow this blog.
We need a term for people who come on to accuse people with different opinions of being ‘doom and gloom’
Get to work people. It needs to imply they are unhinged, unreasonable and/or talking nonsense.
Because that seems to be the way things work these days, rather than actually debating points raised
This is cool. But it’s a full week of football too early since the niners could catch that tonight.
Trust me it’s not doom and gloom. That’s what I felt with Mora.
It’s total banality. Really good wins. Really lame losses…actual beat downs. A bunch if junk teams. And we play a ton of games like a struggle.
I’m just confused how we keep everything the same moving forward how it’s going to suddenly click for our team. To me this is it clicking. From the lions, niners, browns teams that are trending up or are already there they all make systemic changes in process.
I really don’t get the desire to insult the entire blog when you disagree. Make an argument but by dismissively saying people don’t have a good grasp on the league it undermines your point. It also overly simplifies the issues this team has been dealing with for 5 years. If you are content being in the middle 15 teams, that’s fine but I’m not.
Meant as a reply to Andy above sorry
It’s all some people have Murphy
They can’t argue the actual points raised so best to just chuck in a smear and hope that is sufficient
Happens all the time
I think this board has a good grasp of the seahawks team.
But a bad grasp of the league as a whole.
If Adams doesn’t play and spoon gets back we are a top 15 team, and only 2 teams are really good.
I am not stating we are great, but we are above average.
The argument has never been “is this team above average?” The argument, at least as I see it, is “is this team on a path to a championship?” I do not think it is in the next few years. If you are content, I have no issues with that but many aren’t. To dismiss those people as not understanding the rest of the league both condescending and wrong.
Well, Andy Heck, if that is really you, that was drafted 15th overall in the 1st round of the 1989 NFL draft, I have got to respect you. Because you played center for the worst five years in franchise history.
I don’t need to tell anyone on this board how bad the 1989-1993 era was. Tom Flores. Bubba Behring. Mike Blatt’s murder trial with Brian Bosworth’s former agent Gary Wishard and his weird connections to Vikings General Manager Mike Flynn. Who got control of…NFL Europe! And the Seahawks almost left town for…Blackhawk???
Yeah, Andy, I would have jumped ship for the Chicago Bears, too, while Mike Ditka’s career was doing…what…Pete…Carroll’s…is…now.
I understand why you romanticize about quarterbacks of the quality we have now after snapping to Rick Mirrer, who was incapable of throwing accurately to the left side of the field. So, I don’t blame you for leaving when you did in 1993, because that was when Jim Harbaugh left for the Colts.
And there is no way I would let that guy put his hands between my butt cheeks.
On this, we all agree.
I have a lot of respect for a guy that remembers the center on his favorite team 30 years ago. Thats some Hank Hill level fandom.
Actually, it is Peggy Hill’s boggle ability.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYfxxdzbBWA
Actually, he was a tackle/guard. But that doesn’t matter to Jim Harbaugh.
But, I think he might have played some center.
Months of writing detailed, thought-out arguments
Reduced in a second to:
“You guys don’t know the league” followed by an argument that ignores all of the legit points made about this team
Merry Christmas, one and all
Merry Christmas, Rob. I’ll try to make it up to you at the Senior Bowl.
One thing to see from this week is how close a bottom 5 team is from wildcard contention. Pats, steelers, bears, broncos, seahawks, cardinals, vikings, packers, chargers, titans etc. All easily within reach of each other either way. But the difference between those middling wildcard teams and the elite is just way too big of a gap. It’s just not close in terms of talent and execution. I see no big upsets in the playoffs this year. The top 2 seeds in each conference prob just steamroll the rest. All the parity is with the bottom 25 teams.
Who is even that “Elite”?
i remember when the Broncos had Tim Tebow and Tebow would make a final drive and win games.
i feel the past 2 games were similar that they needed final drives to win. At that time Elway knew fans loved Tebow and he got Peyton Manning and all was forgotten for Tebow.
this team is winning on smoke and mirrors and zero identity.
Seahawk fans who dont want to face reality and believe their team is good enough can just stay delusional. Any form of legitimate pause for critical analysis seems to set them off. An analogy would be to see symptoms of a sick person and the person refusing to believe those symptoms are real stating they are still breathing and functioning and more importantly UNWILLING to address the symptoms to get better. All you can do is observe and watch a slow death due to a closer look addressing the symptoms.
i am so frustrated feeling out schemed and coached. Cant be certain i follow this team until i see hope restored.
drafting a QB wont even solve the problem. its top down with leadership forming a vision and executing it. Getting into the playoffs will be the justification the Seahawks are close when it’s very evident they are nowhere near being a super bowl contender.
Merry Christmas, SDB!
🎄🎄🎄🎄
Forget QBOTF until PC is gone.
If he’s good than PC stays for additional years but we won’t win the SB. If he’s mediocre PC at least stay until ’25. If he’s bad then PC might retire but we just burned one or more high picks.
It might even be possible that PC or current regime breaks a potentially good young QB.
There are deeply rooted issues with this FO and until they’re gone it’s mediocre land.
A very Happy Christmas to all on SDB Rebuild, the best site for Hawks info, discussion and analysis by far.
Special thanks and seasonal best wishes to the 4 wise men: Rob, Curtis, Nathan and Robbie. Your efforts and words of wisdom weather spoken or written are so appreciated and valued.
We will all raise a glass of Charbonnet together. Enjoy your Christmas Day basking in another Seahawks victory (just) last night.
Thanks Glasto, Merry Christmas! 🎄
🙏
the game ending with a CB making a tackle by throwing his entire being into the reciever? fun!
A VERY Merry Christmas to one and all here on SDB!
Merry Christmas to all of you…appreciate this board and everyone that makes it worthwhile!
Somehow every year the Seahawks revert to a low scoring first half team. Even when they start out hot at the beginning of the season, it’s play safe, throw the short pass and grind it out by the end of the season. Fortunately they still want fourth quarter comebacks.
It worked pretty well when they had a good defense. But the last few years it has been a roller coaster.
I’m in agreement that we saw Geno at his best this game, and at his wildest/best in the Cowboys game. He can be brilliant at times. When he really lets loose with the passing there will be interceptions. Overall though he’s an average quarterback.
Where would Geno rate compared to past QBs like Wilson, Hasselback or Zorn? Below them somewhere I think.
Anyway Merry Christmas Everyone! Thank you Rob and Curtis for your hard work and continued support.
When Geno uses the WHOLE field and the playcalling makes sense, Geno = top 10 QB
When it’s only throws outside or dumps off, or pass, run, pass then Geno = the struggle.
It’s hard to say if thats all on Geno, or if its coaching and playcalling.
I never saw Zorn play, so I’m biased, but I think Geno is on par or slightly ahead of Hasselbeck. He’s a very accurate passer, and makes some incredible throws that I don’t remember seeing from Matt.
Matt over Geno….only based on career length.
And big, tall, goofy Matt with the Walrus actually brought winning back to Seattle. Contrary to fans that think we went winless from ’76 to 2012.
When Geno’s on its awesome. And I think Detroit needs to watch out if we get the 7th seed and they keep the 2 seed.
That’s a fair assessment.
But man could you imagine this team with Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson? My god that was special.
I still think we were robbed of that Superbowl. Big Ben DID NOT SCORE! I’ve hated the Steelers ever since hahaha
I was looking at Geno stats and he threw for 4,252? Yards last year. Well above this years production. I think the difference is protection in the pocket. Geno does well when he has more time and doesn’t have to move around much. Bradley the right guard is struggling with pass blocking. The center is giving him troubles with long snaps. I’m a little disappointed that PC can’t find better offensive linemen in the 3-5 round range.
I don’t think our pass pro is the problem half the time. The routes are always so far downfield and slow developing.
Its like early game Geno looks scared to throw in the middle, and late game drives he says fuck it and throws strikes down the middle. I dont know if this is play-calling, coaching, or Geno’s mentality at work.
Dude has an accurate arm, he can drop dimes with the best of them. We have excellent WRs and good TEs, why aren’t we open for him to throw? Are we and he just isn’t seeing it? (There was def some of that early season)
My question about the OL, is why can’t we sign anyone decent? I’m not talking about the awful mega contracts, but other teams seem to find these mid-range signings that play in the top half in the league. That’s all we need!!
I also don’t understand their reluctance to go after a good centre. Its clearly critical to the OL and we just keep ignoring it. Oluwatimi might still grow, but he’s not starting over Evan Brown, so that gives me doubts.
The ability to sign, draft, develop or just field a function oline has been a real problem.
Imagine this offense the way we thought before snap one, week one. Field a top 8-ish unit. You could roll with a mediocre defense because teams would be forced to press all game long.
I have to agree that whatever they do with the OL never seems to yield great outcomes. I dont understand why they don’t value the C more.
We currently spend half the league average on OL, 3rd least in the NFL next to Chargers and Bucs.
If we cut the Safeties and a few bad contracts, and renegotiate the WRs, we have like $60m+ in cap and could allow us to re-align spending into the key positions.
I think that combined with throwing out the defensive scheme is key.
You can’t be a top 10 QB some of the time
He’s a bridge
He’s not a bad bridge at all
But he’s a bridge
Tell that to Josh Allen and Trevor Lawrence and Jalen Hurts and Dak Prescott.
This has nothing to do with long-term team building. I’ve said before they must draft a QB in 2024 if they can and if not then 2025. I’d argue if they can’t get a top pick in 2024, they still need to take a swipe in the 3rd-4th-5th rounds on someone, and then go again in 2025 for another.
They’re all top 10…all of the time.
And Geno wouldn’t get that team to the Super Bowl. Geno can get antsy and fall apart at times, gets overwhelmed. I would trust Matt to lead a team. Geno I don’t.
If you consider top 10 leading the league in turnovers, disappearing for entire games, or having nearly identical stats to Geno, then sure I guess?
I’m talking about those four. You are describing Geno.
He isn’t in their class. They can elevate their teams, they can take over games, they are difference makers. They can drag their teams to a win. Geno can against…the Titans.
Geno follows the line between fine and good. The others are elite. The kind that Seattle is looking for.
They can also play like total crap, becoming turnover machines for long stretches, not only in games but also in seasons. This doesn’t mean you don’t look for a top guy. It just means that the dudes that pass for “the top guys” are not all “elite.” Very very few QBs belong in the “elite” class.
So we’re at the point now where we’re going to claim Josh Allen isn’t an elite QB any more
Come on
They are elite. Josh Allen is dragging his team back into the playoffs himself. Jalen Hurts out dueled Patrick Mahomes and should have won a Super Bowl because of it.
“Oh no, they had turnovers!” Are you serious? Are we this randomly picky all of a sudden? These are the guys that you are trying to find. Jeez….
Yep, I can tell that to Dak who is legit consistently top-10, as is Allen.
Geno isn’t a top-10 QB
You skipped right past the fact this was about comparing Seattle QBs, and why I even said what I said.
My point on the comparison to Lawrence and Hurts is stats-wise for as much of a disaster as Seattle’s O has looked for 2/3 of most games, Geno is STILL on par with those two statistically.
Geno has the ball skills of a top 10 QB (he was statistically last season), but the hawks suffer from the same problems that clearly prevent Geno from being a top 10 QB game to game, or even drive to drive.
I don’t think this staff is going to get the best of Geno, and so Geno won’t be a top 10 QB. And if PC stays, then there’s minimal difference between what they get out of Lock vs Geno, so I’d run with Lock and make it easier for the QBOTF to step in when we want to give him a try.
However, if we changed staff, things get interesting because I think Geno is a better mentor to a new QBOTF, and if they can get him to play that top 10 level he is capable of, I think he’s worth the $30m for a year so we can sit the kid. It gives us one season to develop the young QBOTF or find one in 2025 if we cant in 2024. Also we run through the majority of the dead cap we generate from cutting the bad contracts this year and we can let Geno go for same cost leaving us with a substantial cap to resign our draft classes and go out and find some quality FAs or trades to fill our the roster for the future.
When I say top 10, I do not mean top 5, I mean 8-10th. That’s 3700-4200yds, 25-30TDs 10 or fewer INTs.
Geno has more talent than Lawrence 5x over. Hurts has already proved himself: Super Bowl hangover, new (and suspect OC), hurt and sick most of the year. They are the engines of their teams on offense. Geno can’t do that. He also is not a consistent quarterback: drive to drive, quarter to quarter, even throughout the year.
We’ve seen the best of Geno: it is about where he has been this year: fine with good as a ceiling. He’s also not worth 30 mil. He just isn’t a difference maker. They can’t afford him for that amount, so in the end it won’t matter. It’s all a mute point. Bring in a rookie and there will be someone there, slightly in the way until he’s ready. Doesn’t really matter who.
We have seen Geno’s best and its top 8-10 level QB play, that’s my entire point. He hasn’t been with this staff this season.
Can we get that more often with a new staff? If you believe a new offensive-minded head coach is the answer, then shouldn’t they be able to get the best of Geno more often?
We have plenty of cap for Geno, that’s not even a debate. We don’t have big holes in expensive areas and have 20+ players on rookie contracts (more likely after next years draft)
If you think we’re still 2+ years away from being competitive assuming we find QBOTF, then why are you worried about short term cap?
For about six games last season. That constitutes a ‘hot streak’ not an indication of what he is.
Well, it is a debate, given they’re $9.5m OVER the cap for next season currently
Merry Xmas to the crew of the best hawks site anywhere!!
Well 10-7 looking possible. will be the 7 seed. We have 3 wins vs 10 win teams and stuck right with a 4th in Dallas. All of our losses are vs teams +.500. Most of our wins are vs shite teams, but then again so are every one else’s. Clearly the team has the talent to compete imho, its just the coaching that needs fixing. All the penalties, all the terrible play calling, all the bad signings and cap management.
One great example yesterday. 1st and 10 from our own 5 or so early 4th, they draw up a slow to develop screen that is totally predictable and the defense easily sniffs it out for a loss of 3. What in gods name are they thinking there? You have to run that ball up the gut, at least get 2-3 yards to start that drive. Just idiotic….
Oh and Merry Christmas to all, Rob why cant we Yanks adopt Boxing Day ffs? Best holiday we dont have!!!
I’m not seeing how it’s been bad signing or cap management?
J Reed was a solid signing, and J Love is showing why we signed him. Dre Jones has gotten better since Williams was brought in, I think he’s suffering from the scheme more than anything.
Cap management, I think too many are listening to Rob on repeat. Adams contract had an out in 2024, that never changed. Diggs was playing well, and they wanted to try the 3 safety scheme so they pushed his contract a year and they have an out in 2024 for him as well.
Dead money isn’t as big a deal when you have 20+ players on rookie contracts like we do. It’s the best time to go through it.
Lockett and Metcalf are rolling into the back loaded portion of their contracts which is why we see a big jump in cap hit. They can be extended/renegotiated.
Geno was a beautiful contract, and they paired the Love and Reed signings accordingly, with outs in 2024 if they played poorly. Even Dremont has a decent out in 2025 I think. It looks like they had buitl for two paths, Option 1 if we played well this year they could keep most of the team intact next year. Option 2 if we played not great they could get out of many contracts and look to continue building.
If Pittsburg Steelers play the way they did last week then the Seahawks will lose that game. I think they will go 1-1 for the rest of the season.
Steelers are always a tough team, like the Titans. Its because of that Defense. They always come to play, no matter who is in the lineup.
The problem is always their Offensive consistency. Steelers have been dreadful and they’re on QB3. Shut down Pickens big plays and what else is left?
should we predict a third consecutive 20-17 win? hahaha
Merry Christmas to the SDB community!
I’ve been sidetracked a lot lately by work, and honestly I suffer from seasonal affective disorder and these are the dark months for me. So I haven’t been participating much. But I’m still here every day soaking up as much Seahawks intelligence as I can.
Thank you Rob, Curtis, Robbie, Adam and all the usual commentators who make this place the best damn Seahawks site on the entire web!
I feel you.
Gers to the point where I’m staring at uv lights on Amazon wondering how many I need to get to spring.
Thanks all the best Blitzy
Try to keep a positive attitude Blitzy. This is a tough time of year for northern folks.
Merry Christmas Blitzy.
More nog !!!
Merry Christmas brother
I feel you. It gets so bad this time of year I’ll actually go for a motorcycle ride if the sun’s out and it’s above 40. Don’t go more than like 40 miles and bundle like a Native Alaskan but I still have to try to feel something that represents summer.
Merry Christmas Blitzy — and thank you for checking in. I hope things aren’t too bad at the moment and if they ever are, we’re all here if you need to talk.
How many years did Rob identify pass rushers when we were in dire need. Only for them to be available and the hawks go elsewhere with picks. In hindsight Levis would have been the better pick than either of our Rd 2 players. I’m afraid we’ll be talking about QBOTF for just as long as we were edge rushers.
I agree they need to take shots at QB. Can Hall and Charbonnet improve and make a bigger impact, for sure. But you’re right, would we really miss them even in return for a mediocre Levis? I don’t care that he isn’t any better than Lock of Geno. He’d be on a cheap rookie contract and is at least mostly par, and allows you to be more intentional in future drafts to only go after the QB you want.
I hope Ewers is eligible this year, because with him added to the mix, there’s enough QB talent that we have a chance to get one of the good ones in round 1. BUT, if we miss on them and Penix is around in 3rd round, we should get him. We have to start taking some shots at QB.
If Ewers waits a year, I’m fine with Penix in 3rd, and then Ewers in 1st in 2025. More teams need to do what the Eagles and 49ers have done with drafting multiple QBs until one hits big.
We’ll never know who they were targeting with the Denver pick. Could’ve been Levis but Tennessee leap frogged them to take him a few picks earlier.
Merry Christmas to everyone and special thanks to Rob and cha.
You’re very welcome Mick
On this holiday, hoping everyone has family and friends they enjoy engaging with as much as we do the SDB community!
Just finished watching the Raiders defeat the Chiefs. proof positive that coaching changes can change the trajectory and attitude of a team.
In both aspects. Chiefs are a shell of themselves since Bienemy is gone. It’ll be interesting to see how they blame the refs this game.
For sure, but it’s also proof that great coaches can suffer from players failing to execute.
Chiefs making silly mistakes on offense every game it seems.
The Raiders pass rush was no joke, Mahomes spent a lot of time running. The dropped balls certainly didn’t help. And then there was the fumbled handoff that got run back for the easiest touchdown in history!
I was pleasantly surprised to see the Raiders final sequence of runs being so effective!
It is currently 74 degrees here in Pensacola on Christmas Day.
I’ve been thinking you’re a good guy but I may have to reconsider after this post.
SIGH
Well, it snowed here a week before we won the Super Bowl.
Merry Christmas to all at Seahawks Draft Blog. I made you an ugly Christmas sweater using AI.
https://x.com/AlbertB55481266/status/1739434152045224301?s=20
I thought this was going to have the peacock face on there lol
Yikes!
Wow.
Ravens 0 49ers 5
Refs 2
Merry Christmas!
Looking like a Ravens 49ers SB would be a good game.
Is Kyle Hamilton worth what we gave up for Yikes?
Don’t say it 😂
Here’s hoping the Seahawks can learn from the Ravens on how to handle the 49ers offense. They’re playing well on top of the lucky bounces.
Nope…
I’m now convinced only QBs, LTs, or Def Rushers are worth that package.
Baltimore making SF look silly. Cue the “See? REAL fans know we’re better than you give Pete and Geno credit for!!!!” on your local social platform of choice.
6 teams played today. 5 did not look great. Most parity ever in league.
With 7 seeds, 17 games, only 1 bye, away games mattering less. Making the playoffs and trying to get lucky/hot is more relevant then the 6 seed 2 bye 16 game season. NFL is becoming more like baseball where the playoffs are more of a crapshoot.
Leonard Williams in/spoon in/adams out/jsn healthy and seasoned/tackles back.
We could go on a run.
The league is average and getable this year.
Yep, let’s just ignore everything we’ve been discussing for the last few weeks, many of the issues continuing to be featured in the last two games.
They scraped a victory against a bad Tennessee team missing half a defense with nothing to play for and squeaked by an Eagles team that suddenly looks all over the place.
We can go on a run!!!
No more ludicrous than the announcers saying that if the Raiders won every remaining game and the Chiefs lost every remaining game then the Raiders could win the division.
The announcers weren’t saying that was realistic, Alaska, and it’s not really relevant in this discussion
If “going on a run” means winning a couple more games, I say very possible. If it means deep run into the playoffs and a shot at the SB, then no way. We all know this team is middling and has many flaws. But nothing wrong with enjoying and getting excited with the win. Nothing in NFL is a gimme on the road. Half depleted or not. Plenty of time later to dissect what this team needs to do beyond this year.
The commenter above is saying playoff run
The Seahawks are capable of beating the Steelers and Cardinals, sure. It’s nothing to write home about and shouldn’t paper over the issues we’ve talked about all season and for multiple years
The steelers game is going to be weird.
To try-less teams battling to be less mediocre than the other.
We have the better offense. They have the better defense.
Seahawks: -32 point differential ( scored vs. Allowed)
Pittsburg: -34 point differential
Hawks can go on a run Rob……….ifr other teams decide not to run……the football.
When I’m watching or listening I’m not sure why any OC calls anything but run or pass over the middle. I would throw about 8 yards passed the LOS over the dline into Wagnerland until Seattle put different personnel on the field.
The niners almost literally did that the last game where we spotted them 9.9 yards a play.
The corners can mix it up but there’s a black hole on the defense and we are going on a few years now of not defending it.
Did this just now on PFN, Merry Christmas!
33.
SEA
T’Vondre Sweat
DT Texas
trade icon
65.
SEA
McKinnley Jackson
DT Texas A&M
trade icon
71.
SEA
Spencer Rattler
QB South Carolina
trade icon
84.
SEA
Cole Bishop
S Utah
trade icon
110.
SEA
Jaden Hicks
S Washington State
trade icon
141.
SEA
Omar Speights
LB LSU
trade icon
150.
SEA
Zak Zinter
OG Michigan
181.
SEA
Zion Tupuola-Fetui
EDGE Washington
212.
SEA
Xavier Thomas
EDGE Clemson
2025 NO 4th
Maybe more safeties….?
As long as there’s a qb I’m pretty much here for anyone’s mock drafts. Stick and pick? Trade back five rounds and get future firsts til the league is playing holograms on the field. All of that.
Watching the Niners lose was a better present than the Hawks win tbh 😂. A takeaway I had coming out of that game was that it seemed like the way to beat the niners is gonna have to be with a dual threat quarterback. I’m really interested in Jayden Daniels and the opportunity to run an offense like the Ravens or last years Eagles .
Though that helps I thought the take away was hope Purdy throws four picks. Because at three picks the niners were still in it.
I like Andy Heck’s optimism above until I see the niners are so far ahead of everyone that a loss still puts them at the one seed where we still need to nearly win out to get in.
I think the Seahawks’ QBOTF has got to be a dual threat, not a traditional pocket passer. I’m on the Jayden Daniels supporters list, but other than Daniels, who should I be looking at?
I watched the Baltimore Ravens game and I have a lot of respect for the ravens organization the always seem to have a excellent draft . they play a physical game face it they punched the 49ers in the mouth tonight.Brock threw what 4 picks. They signed Mr Clowney for a one year contract for 2.5 million that’s tremendous value.and lastly John Harbough who basically is motivation guy he leaves his offensive to his offensive coordinator Todd Monken whoI believe was the offensive coordinator at Georgia.the defense coordinator is Mike McDonald who was the defense coordinator at Michigan and he leaves the defense to his coordinator.they seem to get it
Much has been made of the Ravens moves and drafts over the year on this site. While it’s easy to point to moves they’ve made over the years and admire ( envy?) their decisions what I see a team who has basically done as little as us since they last won their superbowl.
However.
Harbaugh has done a fantastic job this year finding the absolute best coaches he can to run their sides of the ball. Something our coach will not and probably can not do.
Most importantly though, instead of selling most of the fanbase that an absolute dictionary definition average QB is something more than he is they recognized that the need is there for the most important position in the sport.
Respect goes to a coach who can reinvent himself.
So if I’m figuring correctly, the 9ers loss last night means they now must win their last 2 games to secure the #1 seed meaning the Commanders and the Rams. They can no longer afford to rest starters and gift the Rams a win the last game of the season. If that happens and Seattle wins its last 2, Hawks move up to the 6 seed. I think Detroit ends up the 3 and Hawks would go there in the first round.
Would a first round win be enough for Pete to ride off into the sunset a winner or would it make him think he’s just “this” close?
*this assumes the Eagles win their last 2 games vs. AZ and NY Giants in which case SF must win out
Sadly, I don’t think so about retiring. I think he is too optimistic and the turnaround and win streak will be enough to bring him back.
Pete seems like the kind of guy who likes watching westerns and having the hero ride off at the end. Not sure if I can see him doing that.
Plus he has a great contract through 2025. Would you give up $15 million a year?
I said this in 2020 leading up to the Wilson trade, so feel free to ignore my gut feeling, but Pete looks, sounds and acts like a man going through the motions. That’s not to say he doesn’t experience the highs, doesn’t still get himself revved up for practices and games and what not.
I think he was serious about retiring in whenever that was, 2018 or so. I think he revved himself up to give it one more go. And I think he realizes he can’t achieve his ultimate goal of another championship.
I’ve come around on my wanting them to lose out for a better draft pick and to hammer Pete into retirement. Now I want them to go as far as they can so he can go out with as much pride as can be kept at this point. And if he does retire at the end of this season, whenever that may be, there’s quite a bit of Seahawks pride waiting for him forever.
Completely agree with you Blitzy. Early on I was initially rooting for them to lose, although I quickly changed my mind when I realized how different my moods are when we win versus when we lose. I would hope that when the season ends we can experience the excitement of a new coach while appreciating the good times with Pete. I’d also think that us going as far as we can in the playoffs would help us in resigning Leo Williams.
SF always like to play the role of bully. They have now played two teams that were more physical than them Cleveland / Ravens and struggled badly against both. Typical if you want to beat a bully you have to punch them in the mouth.
Till the Hawks build a roster that can match them physically they will struggle.
Watching that game half interested I thought it was odd that the Rams who are way more finesse were able to stymie the Ravens better than any other NFC team this year.
This is especially important of our interior offensive line, they graded out poorly in the last game against Tennessee. Both the eye test and statistics indicate that both guards and center need an upgrade.
Defensively the line is not bullying the best teams yet, but do okay against average teams.
I think for me the main issue is coaching. We can argue all day over talent, but the reality is that the defense rarely seems coherent for long periods. It’s essentially been since 2017 that they’ve fielded a legit defense. So we’ve had 5 years of KNJ and two of Hurtt, the defense has been atrocious most of that time. There is far too much talent / money invested on the defensive side of the ball for it to be as consistently bad as it’s been. It also feels that they never learn from other teams exploiting their weaknesses. They consistently get targeted on the MOF against the LB’s but rarely target that area as an offense.
I don’t believe that Geno is a terrible QB. He’s fine, he’ll be good enough until they can find the next guy, but the reality is that most teams are constantly looking for “The Guy”. I’d put Geno about the same level as Hasselbeck, i remember how awful he was before becoming the “guy” at 28. Even still he had one season as good as the one Geno had last year, and that was with an elite playcaller and left tackle. The point is that very few teams have “generational talent” at qb, but teams without those guys still win championships. They have a ton of offensive talent, but no consistent plan. They are spending 20m on two TE who never get targets, that’s unacceptable. It’s also a clear function of the offense Pete wants to run, because for years they’ve never been able to utilize TE’s and it’s been 5 coordinators.
Personally, i’ll miss when pete is gone, he’s created a unique environment. It’ll be hard to replicate that in the next coach, but i think change is needed. I am just ready for there to be a competent defense again, someday.
Don’t disagree with a ton of this though i will say when comparing qbs I think people should review eras. In Matt’s time Tom Brady in 2005 threw 4100 yards 26 tds and 14 ints and was an all pro, probowl, and offensive player of the year candidate.
The league may be way down according to its own efforts to make scoring the only thing that matters but it was a pretty different game even 20 years ago.
Yeah, different era’s. Back then, teams still ran the ball as a priority. We will probably never see those td records broken like that again (at least by a running back).
To me, can’t compare them. Matt was able to lead the team and held down the job. Geno…we need to replace.
Matt was only able to hold down the job after dilfer blew out his achiles in the pre-season, i know people forget this, but he lost his job to Dilfer in the preseason that year, Dilfer was going to be the starter. Matt was good quarterback, i don’t view him and Geno as different players. If you stuck Geno behind that line with those weapons i think he’s able to lead them to the same record. You went to a superbowl that year with Matt. The biggest reason they went that year was the defense, everyone seems to forget that, and a major reason the defense was so good is that it was basically the ONLY healthy year of Marcus Tubbs, he was such a factor that it changed the complexion of the defense, that and a healthy Tatupu.
I’m not going to say that Geno is blindly great, but if you’re looking at problems on the team QB is like problem #10. Also just cause you draft a guy high doesn’t mean they’ll be great, see trevor lawrence, he’s behind a pretty talented team and they’re collapsing. You need the right guy, where you get them doesn’t matter.
Why does no one every talk about how the rarest exceptions what a team needs is actually synchronicity.
The defense was very good that year. Feel like having two HOF linemen and the Alexander had a bit to say about how that team did.
It’s like the endless nonsense about #3. Sure folks. He was just there for the ride….checks notes….a lot of the LOB was already here. As was Lynch.
Disagree about qb problem #10.
Chickens, eggs and all that. Much better defense creates better offensive opportunities. Better offense creates opportunistic defense. The QB on his own is great from 20 yard to 20 yard. He’s also one of the worst red zone qbs.
Essentially to me it seems there’s a few ways to compete. And Seattle is doing none of them now.
Are we closer to top Defense or top offense.
I know history books are cluttered with late qbs who had a year of success or Tom Brady who skews all the numbers. Unless you find Montana or Brady if you’re hoping for sustained success or multiple shots at the ring it’s not some qb you find anywhere.
And Montana and Brady were still playing in different era’s. People act like finding those late-round qb’s are the only option. This weird fear with actually using draft capital on a guy, going all in.
You don’t have a long window without your guy. You don’t seriously compete without your guy. That is how you get him in today’s football.
I second that probably having the best tackle/guard duo, and a running back who should be in the HOF probably did as much as anything else.
Jared Goff is the only top 5 Qb trade that yielded a high-quality player, and even still I question it because he was traded after only 4 years as starter, but he was the piece that got them Stafford who won them a SB… so it’s probably still a win, but its also the reason they declined so quickly right after.
Mahomes and Allen were drafted outside the top 5 and thus moving up was much cheaper. Lamar was late round, Hurts round 2, Burrow, Tua and Herbert, Mayfield and Goff drafted in original spot.
I dont agree with throwing the future away to move into the top 5. It might be different if you have a top 5 defense or OL and QB is all you’re missing, but the hawks are not that.
No one mentioned trading into the top 5.
No matter what, you find your guy and do what need to get him. If they pick Daniels and have to move up, then they have to do it.
You aren’t throwing the future away. You are getting the one asset that you need. You don’t win without it. I don’t get the reasoning behind protecting or accumulating picks.
No one mentioned top 5, just go all in or do what it takes to get your guy??
If the 49ers didn’t luck out on a 7th round Purdy, we wouldn’t even be talking about them as being top of the league.
They traded two drafts worth of top picks for Lance in return for nothing.
Trading up, and going all in are two very very different things.
One requires patience and opportunity, the other is downright reckless.
And it didn’t screw them forever either.
Which is kind of the point.
Everyone fears an error like this after moving up for a QB. But in reality, the upside (getting a good QB) is far greater than the downside (oh, no first rounders for two years). When you couch it like this, it’s a lot more palatable.
MMjohns195 You should comment more, you’re one of the more rational commenters I’ve seen here hahah
I really think the past two games have highlighted the system/playcalling problem beyond the QB. Two QBs, identical results, first drive and last drive and nothing in between. Maddening playcalls.
Back to the past: I totally forgot we basically signed the entire Rams DL hahaha We did have a good defense, but Alexander had almost 1900yds rushing and 27TDs and was unstoppable in the redzone with Jones and Hutchinson. Its unreal to imagine that kind of rushing attack these days.
Alexander in the redzone was as guaranteed of a score as the tush push from the 1yd line.
A long-term answer at quarterback is not only problem #1, it is the one that is a necessity to be fixed. It has to be done. Noting is remotely close.
You don’t win without a quarterback is elite or has elite talent. Look at the Super Bowl this last year. Geno can’t hang with what Mahomes and Hurts did. That is what the game is today. Are we going to build another historic defense? Is the roster close enough top to bottom to make up for a quarterback that is just fine?
You don’t pass on drafting someone because “ah, it might not pan out.” The Jags have their guy. Now they need to get him weapons and fill out the roster. The hardest part is done.
Geno with new staff could be best short term answer, and the kid you draft in round 1 the long term answer.
It’s not that complicated. Its not the answer, it’s the question.
Lock could be ok, but you’d have to have answers on defense and the run game if so.
There isn’t really anyone else available, unless you trade for Fields if they go QB at #1. An interesting alternative to Geno.
Either way, you draft a QB.
It really doesn’t matter who is under center until a rookie is ready. The guy won’t be doing more than keeping the job warm. Geno, Lock. Minshew, Jacoby Brissett.
There is no other option. Have to draft a guy. And early.
Thats not actually true though, statistically speaking, look over the history of the Superbowl, it’s somewhat skewed because Brady played in 9/23 super bowls or so but even truly great Qb’s only get there once, maybe twice, see Brees/Rodgers/Ryan. I’m not arguing it’s not important, but the biggest reason seattle hasn’t really been a threat since 2017 is not the Offense/QB but the terrible defense they’ve run out there since then. I think Qb is something they need to find, but it’d put it behind whatever it takes to get the defense in to the top 1/3 of the league. Even with spotty play by Geno (missing both tackles the majority of the year), they should’ve won a few more games than they have, alot of that comes down to quite frankly awful defense.
I can’t think of many games this year where you can look and say, yeah Geno cost us that game, but you can point to about 5/6 where you can say that about the defense. I still think it’s more about coaching / scheme with the defense than personel, but without changing the HC i don’t know how you improve it. So it remains to be seen i guess.
Mahomes is in a class by himself, i don’t think anyone is going to argue that, but Hurts isn’t the only reason why the Eagles are successful. I’ll die on the hill that i think Lawrence is a completely overrated QB. Jacksonville won’t win anything big with him there, i just don’t see it, granted that’s just my opinon which means jack-all, but it remains my opinion. If Seattle had a top 15 defense and was still struggling like this then, yes i’d agree qb is the problem, but as it stands to me, you have to get the defense fixed before even a great QB will win anything here.
Last 10 Super Bowl winners: Brady, Mahomes, Stafford, Russ, Manning, Foles.
One won from elite defense only, one won with about the best overall roster and a game manager. Us and the Pats were just the best. So all were elite but two?
Hurts runs the Eagles offense. Take him out and it is toothless. Geno isn’t a difference maker. You just don’t win the Super Bowl without one (unless we are trying to build another LOB or make the rest of the roster Pro Bowlers). That’s just how it is. Offense wins. An elite qb wins.
QB is the equalizer. Clearly we have spent…enough in the defense. Should we keep plugging assets into that rising dam and see if that fixes the issue? Or solve the biggest hole on the team and the best way to get a championship and also open a legitimate, long-term window?
Ok So lets examine that a bit further. I’ve been saying Qb is the lowest of the problems, i’m acknowledging it is a problem just not that high of a problem. The biggest issue i’ve been talking about is that the defense is SO far away from being competitive that it makes the QB a moot point. Going off the last 10 years only (13-22) the average Offensive ranking was 5.7 and the average defensive ranking was 7.1. The lowest ranked defense to win was 16th, while the lowest offense to win was 19th.
The point i’m making is that while having a good quarterback can get you there and win you games, the problem by and large is that no one, wins a superbowl without at least a competent to above average defense. Geno is closer to being Mahomes than the defense is to being the 2013 LOB. Until they get exponentially better on defense who the quarterback is isn’t going to matter, and quite frankly then we’ll be having the conversation, much like we were in 2015-2020 that the defense is wasting the QB’s prime years.
So yes i think they have to fix the defense, and once they’re on that path, then the QB matters. I would say i trust schneider, and if he identifies a QB in the draft that he sees as the guy, then i’d trust him. I’m not going to be upset or surprised when if/when they pass on QB.
They’ve invested a fortune in the defense
It’s time to make use of that or find someone who can, then draft a QB
Otherwise we’re spinning wheels in the mud forever
And I’m saying that quarterback isn’t just the number one problem, it is the one that HAS to be addressed. This coming year. With the last two drafts classes, their youth is being wasted. Can’t afford to wait around and hope the building the rest of the defense up will happen. Besides already having one of the most expensive defenses in the league.
It’s easier to get a middling, competent defense than to find your quarterback. They will do nothing without seriously upgrading the defense. This has to be done, otherwise anything else will be moot.
Rob, I’m agreeing with you, i think that the defense has had a ton of money/picks invested in it for little return. I think that this goes beyond this coordinator, this has been 7 years of subpar defense. I do not know what else to do other than change the head person at this point, because it goes beyond the coordinators.
We’ve been spinning our wheels in the mud for 7 years. My final counterpoint was it’s clearly not easier to get a middling competent defense than a QB, because if they’d have just had that defense with Russell they’d have won more games than they had or gone further. So based on results getting the middling defense was/is far harder for this regime than a functional / good QB.
I think it is easier — the problem is the Head Coach
Matt also had Shawn Alexander who, if I remember correctly, set what was then the TD scoring record.
Geno isn’t great and he isn’t speedy. But no matter who the quarterback is it is rare to have consistent wins without a running game. Someone has to take the pressure off the quarterback by running, and also the short yardage plays. Wouldn’t it be great if the Seahawks could consistently pick up 2 yards as needed? The Eagles figured it out with their tush push, but their offensive line is so solid.
Mahomes with KC was running for his life on passing plays, and also scrambling like crazy for yards. I would love to see Seahawks pick up a running quarterback like Daniels.
I’m getting more and more intrigued by Daniels. Problem is, I think the Saints will sell the farm to get him.
In hawks land where people think Penix is the third QB off the board I agree with you. Saints are the team that moves up for Daniels.
As of today ATL has the 10 pick one before Saints and I think if the Saints dint move ATL is Daniels floor.
I agree. I think 10 is the absolute floor. I think it might be higher than that, but without looking and the draft order changing, he’s just too good and intriguing.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the Raiders and Chargers were in the market for quarterbacks too. That new Raiders coach is awesome and he strikes me as the type that would go for an elite quarterback if he can (nothing against O’Connell).
Chargers?
My biggest gripe with this team has been that in the early days with Lynch, when they needed a yard, they’d line up Mike Rob and run power behind him. Can we please just have a fullback or a TE play fullback for these plays. I would kill for this.
We actually have a FB who we are paying $2,600,000 this year. Who we’ve paid $6,500,000 in previous contracts. And who we owe $4,000,000 next year.
This is why I think Fields would be an interesting option if the Bears draft a QB. Could maybe be had for cheap, maybe even trade Lock or Geno to serve as the vet backup for their #1 pick.
For those who always black and white everything —-> I WOULD STILL DRAFT A QB.
Imagine the threat of Fields and Walker. Fields looks much better with DJ Moore. I think having DK, Lockett and JSN would be extremely interesting.
It would even be an interesting option if we couldn’t snag a top QB pick in 2024.
I’d rather not take on any more castoffs from other teams. That is why we are in our current situation.
Guy still doesn’t know how to play the position, so I would rather not waste resources or time. We’re too good to bring in a glorified running back and see what he can do in year four all of a sudden.
Lamar Jackson wasn’t much different. He had limited weapons to go to, and was very much run first. But he also had a top defence and a bully of an OL.
Fields was on one of the worst teams in the league, with no weapons until this year. Even the first half of this year until they traded for Sweat, the D was AWFUL. He has played MUCH better with Moore but he’s been playing injured half the year.
Give Fields the weapons we have, combined with his running, and I think it would by dynamic. Just not with our coaching staff. We would need a more creative offensive-minded staff for it to work.
You want them to take shots to find their guy dontcha? Fields is 24yrs old, if you can swing him for a 5th rounder then cut(or trade) Geno and Lock, and draft a QB. If Fields doesn’t play well, his contract expires end of 2024, low cost bridge, easy to move on.
And yet all of the issues which were evident and discussed when he had the luxury of playing for Ohio State, have shown up with bells on in the NFL
For what it’s worth, the Bears are not trading him for a fifth rounder either. The Niners got a fourth for Trey Lance and he’s achieved nothing in the league and barely played.
Fields vs Lamar coming into the league are definitely not the same thing. Lamar was at least capable of playing eh position. Fields still looks lost. Lamar hd limited weapons IN COLLEGE and was able to produce. Fields had the best of everything and still looked like a running back in the backfield.
It’s not taking a shot, it’s wasting time and resources. No more castoffs and guys that aren’t QBOTF.
💯
Fields is a turnover machine and he’s coming to the end of his cheap rookie deal
No.
Watching MNF and the Ravens front 7 manhandle the 49ers (no disrespect meant for the Ravens secondary, who also had a brilliant night). Hearing names like blog favorite DTs Justin Madubuike and Travis Jones repeatedly called for the tackle, the sack, the fumble, just drives home the long standing argument of focusing your most important resource — draft capital — on positions as close to the ball as possible (read: in the trenches).
Mike Macdonald is one very, very impressive DC. He’s probably the one defensive minded coach I’d want to replace Carroll.
Much appreciation for the kind words of sympathy and encouragement.
Another sterling example of what makes this place so special.
I thought the team looked fine but when the qb throws 3 picks in the first half it demoralizes the defense. Without the picks they were moving the ball pretty much at will during the 1st half especially the first quarter, and going into the half it was only a 4 point game with SFs d doing an ok job containing Lamar. When Purdy threw that 4th interception it took the wind right out of the D’s sails.
He’s had a few games now where he finally is looking like a rookie, or someone who has only just played one full season as a starter. I guess you’re right that the Ravens D line had a lot to do with that. I’d also like to see Seattle spend real resources in the trenches, but watching a mobile qb run everywhere and throw all over the field has me really liking Daniels. He’s probably qb 2 though so I don’t see us getting there.
What was clear to me was the toughness and physicality of the Ravens and Niners. For comparisons sake, the Seahawks are like a powder puff team on those two traits alone.
Patrick Queen after the game
“Tac-kle?” You’ve baffled the Seahawks defensive starters with that one.
Last two games they’ve tackled much better, oddly since Adams hasn’t played Diggs has stopped diving at ankles as well.
Did I read somewhere that in the last two games since Love moved to Adams position, he and Diggs are PFF’s top graded safety duo?
Haven’t seen the Titans scores but Love got a 94 and Diggs a 68 vs Philly
I’m all in for poaching the Raven coaching and GM staffs. Get Ozzie Newsome as special consultant to the billionairess, and rule the NFC.
Not typically a fan of The Hawk’s Nest’s commentary, as it’s amongst the most reactive as opposed to data based but he breaks down the Jamal saga from it’s inception:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fjI1mHE_nE
Nothing we didn’t already know thanks to Rob and Curtis but… post-Xmas content.
I don’t know the M-O or the history of The Hawks Nest, but these types of pieces I tend to scoff at a little.
The ground is very, very, Very soft right now and ripe for Adams trade criticism.
People were popping champagne corks over the trade and then later over the sacks record. Understanding that the cost was astronomical and the benefit was nil was not beyond comprehension, yet overzealous positivity reigned so hard over this trade for so long, even now after a whole year of injury, a sloppy debut, league fines for abusing doctors…twice…still didn’t blunt the positivity of many.
It’s only in the lens of another poor year of play and this Twitter spat and Adams publicly doubling down has the tide started to turn.
It’s very safe to criticize Adams now and they’re pouring in by the dozens.
I am not saying anyone who criticizes Adams or the Seahawks now over this whole thing is a hypocrite. Everyone approaches their process differently.
But the piling on of Adams criticism does seem to equally mirror the piling on of the praise early on and that’s just unfortunate.
Personally i always thought the cost was high and not worth it, but they seemed to think the price was worth it, and frankly a guy who’d never been injured gets here and then just gets zapped by his injuries, we’ll never get the version of Adams we traded for, that’s the unfortunate part.
The last injury he had i thought was going to end his career, and honestly it seems like its going to. He’s like 60% of what he once was, and that’s not a functional football player.
For me, his attitude the last few weeks was the real icing, you can’t talk all that smack, then play poorly and react poorly to people calling you out on it. I wish jamal the best in life, because i think this is it for him, i don’t see him making another NFL roster after this. I keep thinking of the snowball effect the Mcdowell incident had, the trade for rankins, then clowney, then adams.
Cha you’re right in thinking that it’s soft ground, it’s popular to rip on him now and i suspect that it’s going to continue until June 1st….
I think you mean Richardson, not Rankins. Regardless though your “snowball effect” point beginning with McDowell and ending with Adams is excellent. I’d add letting Frank Clark go and trying to replace him with LJ Collier and you’ve got a pass rush disaster for a number of years.
Mike you are correct, i typed Richardson in my mind. Yes, i’d agree on the Clark point too, though if you look back at that draft, i think it just got away from them. That was the one in which they traded down from 21 to 30th and ended up with 29/30. I think they had like 4/5 guys they liked but they all got picked before them and Collier was the best of the rest in their eyes. I think it was a huge point of getting too cute, subsequently the 2022/2023 drafts were just picking the best guys.
Concur. Rob did make the point recently that they had the ammo to move up in that draft to get one of the guys they wanted (Gary, Burns). Unfortunately they don’t seem to be aggressive like that in drafting. Sadly that does not bode well for a move up for a QB in ’24. Guess there’s always a first time.
Well said Curtis. Happy to be part of a group on this site that could see the trade and the player were not good by the end of his first season in Seattle. A number of us felt like he was not worth a new contract after that season and I believe you and Rob were writing as such.
I’d also guess that his “misuse” as stated in the video may have been the coaches knowing he was physically incapable of fulfilling the role envisioned for him initially especially since video proof of business decisions would support that.
He’s done in the NFL imo.
Essentially agreed but like I said, it’s post-Xmas content for those that might consume such.
Regardless if it’s become en vogue to dump on Adams, it’s still nice to see that those of us that hated the move from its inception were eventually justified.
I just wonder if those of us who criticised the trade, analysed why the sacks were a mirage in year one, never wanted to pay him (and argued strongly against it after his first year) and were constantly hammered for daring to challenge everything about this deal will now get a bit of cred for, you know, being right.
I’m not holding my breath, having lived through the Wilson trade saga, the well informed opinion that Jaylen Carter won’t be a Seahawk period, the pass rush isn’t good enough concern of 2020/21 and the increasingly relevant talk that the Carroll era has come to a stalled stop.