A few weeks ago we discussed the possibility of Seattle drafting Kevin King (CB, Washington) in the first round — with one caveat.
He had to have a great combine.
It’s well advertised the Seahawks haven’t drafted a cornerback earlier than the fourth round in the seven years of the Pete Carroll era. Two questions come to mind:
1. How easy is it to continue doing that?
2. What would it take to change that trend?
To answer question one, it is becoming increasingly difficult. Lance Zierlein highlights the problem:
“Speed matters, but more teams are beginning to trend toward length and takeaways over all else at the position. While there have always been teams who covet size at cornerback (including Green Bay), Seattle’s combination of Brandon Browner and Richard Sherman from years ago had to be an eye-opener for teams.”
Pretty much since 2013, teams have been looking to mimic Seattle’s approach to defensive backs. Richard Sherman likely wouldn’t be available in the fifth round of the 2017 draft. He was right there for them in 2011.
This week Kyle Shanahan talked about copying Seattle’s defense in San Francisco.
‘Their guys’ are going earlier.
Question two comes down to two things. The first is a need at the position. For a long time Seattle had good depth at corner. Unless the likes of Pierre Desir, Stanley Jean-Baptiste and DeAndre Elliott step forward in 2017, that isn’t going to be the case this year. Deshawn Shead’s injury increases the urgency to find a starter.
Secondly, it’s down to whether there’s a freaky enough athlete at #26. They’re not breaking this trend for Mr. Average, especially at cornerback. We know what the Seahawks like in round one — traits.
Kevin King has freaky potential.
At the 2016 Husky Combine he ran a 4.02 short shuttle, a 6.40 three-cone, jumped 39.5 inches in the vertical and 10-10 in the broad. If he repeats that three-cone at the NFL combine it’ll be the fastest by any player at any position. His broad jump would’ve matched Vernon Hargreaves’ effort a year ago for third best among cornerbacks. His 39.5 inch vertical would’ve also ranked third.
The only question mark is long speed.
According to Tony Pauline, that might not be a problem:
“I’m told the big corner has been running under 4.4 seconds hand-timed during combine training. When converted to electronic timing, King has spanned the 40 yards in about 4.45 seconds.
And while 4.45 is by no means an extraordinary time, it beats any expectations scouts had of King’s foot speed.
Consider the fact that scouts believed King to be a high-4.5 second corner in the 4.58-second range and that, throughout the season, speed was the sole criticism I heard about his game. The conversations usually went something to the extent of, “He [King] has the size and ball skills but can’t run.”
If he’s able to break into the mid-4.4s on the final day of combine workouts, King will cement himself as a top-45 selection.”
The average forty time of the cornerbacks drafted by Pete Carroll is 4.51. If King runs in the 4.4’s with outstanding height and length, incredible short-area quickness and explosive physical traits — he could be in contention at #26.
His tape isn’t bad either. In five games I didn’t see him beaten over the top once. He’s adept at covering crossing routes and comfortably lined up in the slot a year ago. He broke up 15 passes in 2016 — as many as Clemson’s Cordrea Tankersley and one less than Tre’Davious White and Adoree’ Jackson.
Like a lot of corners in this draft he can be more physical and improve his tackling.
There are reasons why King at #26 might not happen even if he does run a 4.4. The depth at the cornerback in this draft could allow Seattle to wait until rounds 2-3 for someone like Rasul Douglas, Howard Wilson or Ahkello Witherspoon. If Haason Reddick is there at #26, he’d be tough to pass up. Obi Melifonwu might be bigger, faster and freakier. If a slot corner is the priority maybe they consider Budda Baker, Adoree’ Jackson or a Justin Evans?
Yet King remains a very intriguing option for Seattle. And if he really does run in the 4.4’s, he will be one of the big winners at the combine.
If King goes round 1 this class of DBs is looking downright epic!
We are fortunate this is such a deep draft. We stand to land some real difference makers, including our first rounder. Who knows: maybe the Combine will elevate another offensive lineman or three, allowing us to get a LB or DB we really covet, if not allowing an OT we already like with long enough arms to fall. I can’t wait for the Combine to get going!
How would you compare Kevin King and the dude across from him Sidney Jones.
I suspect Kevin King will prove to be the superior athlete in Indianapolis. For me KK has greater upside but Sidney Jones is technically very adept and will be a very good pro corner.
It would be hard to pass up on King in even the first round if he runs 4.45. He’s really improved his game over the years, 15 PD’s is an elite number. He would definitely help force turnovers where Shead hasn’t been able to.
I think it’d be pretty easy, but then I don’t quite get this line of thinking that starts with, “If he [does X] at the combine, . . . .”
The tape is the tape. You can generally tell a guy’s play speed from the tape, A lot of guys will do combine-specific training and/or lose weight to have better numbers at the combine, but that doesn’t necessarily tell me how the guy is going to play. To me, a first-rounder is a little like a Hall of Famer: if you can’t see it when you watch the guy, he probably isn’t it. A good run at the combine shouldn’t change your opinion that much.
Take Hassan Reddick. He didn’t go from (in the draft media) a probable 3rd-round pick to a potential 1st-round pick because of great athletic testing, IMO. It’s because he showed he was more versatile than what teams saw on tape at Temple. He showed he could cover and sort through trash at LB and not just be a stand-up rusher. Otherwise he’d be Josh Shirley.
Very well said Rhino. The numbers are interesting and good for verifying, but all I needed to. Hear was that he gadnt been beaten over the top. Sounds like a good player to me! I’m excited that the defensive depth of draft is great this year. A perfect time to reload the secondary or linebacker positions.
All I needed to hear was that he hadn’t been beaten over the top.
There’s really no need to be sniffy about athletic testing. Whether you agree or not, teams value traits. Especially in Seattle.
I was paying you a compliment for your they haven’t beaten him over the top line. Based on his actual performance on the football field, I would be happy with King.
If you have to have numbers go right ahead. I’ll look at them too. I don’t see where SPARQ and good combine numbers have helped the offensive line much. That is me being sniffy.
Yet
Alaska — my comment was in response to Rhino. The comments section on wordpress doesn’t make that obvious sometimes.
I’ll try to be less sniffy (BTW, is that British slang? If so, cool). It’s just that I object to treating athletic testing the way it’s often treated, as if the player’s tape isn’t good enough to be worth a first-round selection, but IF he manages to run a fast enough 40, or does a good short shuttle, oh, *then* he’s worth a 1st-round pick.
This is a *much* longer post that I’ll try to keep short, but I don’t think it works that way. Or, if it does, maybe that’s why people like Al Davis kept making terrible picks towards the end of his reign of the Raiders, or why we ended up with Christine Michael, etc. Because it’s the wrong way to look at it. I think athletic testing is extremely valuable in unearthing diamonds in the rough. I think it’s valuable in confirming what you saw on tape. It’s valuable if it shows traits that wouldn’t show up on tape because of college usage, injury, etc.
But I think there is a trend toward overvaluing traits that aren’t particularly useful or don’t correlate strongly with success (length being the most recent one, trying to supplant the 40 or the BP, I guess). One response might be, “Well, at least you are taking the best athlete and increasing your odds,” but that ignores the possibility that you are (a) missing out on better players with a slightly worse athletic profile (because what they *are* good at is more valuable than a faster 40 or SS, for example) or (b) paying for something you don’t need.
No-ones saying better athlete = better pick or better player or first rounder.
That is just the philosophy of the front office of the focus of this blog.
Look Josh Garnett went right before Germain Ifedi. He had some okay tape.
He wasn’t as much of an athlete.
The 9ers are a dumpster fire. So maybe they don’t have the very best philosophy
My struggle with the athletic part is that normally the lighter players will be faster. But they are moving up to the pros where everyone is in better condition and hit harder. So will they last?
I see someone like Redick, who I think is a little light for a linebacker in the pros, and wonder if that speed will still be there when he is 10-20 pounds heavier? Or is the trend towards lighter linebackers? Then there are the injury questions, would a lighter faster guy be more prone to injury? I don’t know. Seems like most of the line injuries are caused by another player rolling on someones leg – that isn’t weight or speed dependent. In the secondary it is often their own teammate colliding with them in a gang tackle or gang miss.
Then getting back to a guy like Ross who Rob guessed at a pretty fast 4.3 40 time. I don’t think he is that fast, he is more of a long strider type with great hands and leaping abilities. What makes a receiver a first round pick? Speed and catching ability would be a good start. But you really can’t expect that Ross will be as fast as some of the sub 6 foot receivers that will be running. So his draft-ability will probably be based more on his tape and his good hands and leaping ability. Is he worth a #1? Yes of course, he will always be a scoring threat.
RE: Haason Reddick being light for the NFL
He’s three pounds lighter than Ray Lewis at his combine.
So basically a big dump.
The trend is definitely towards lighter LB
But no, lighter players don’t get hurt more. Nothing to suggest that.
John Ross has great size for the role he will play at the next level.
Great stuff, Rob.
Can’t wait for those arm lengths to come in so we can look at some other guys.
What is our list at like 4 dudes at CB right now?
Douglas, King, Moreau, Decoud.
Maaybe TreDavious White?
Wilson and Witherspoon, too I spose
Howard Wilson from Houston too..dude just make plays and flips the field consistently.
Yeah I skimmed the last paragraph. Anxious to get to the comments section xD
I’ve literally just been comparing his husky combine numbers to some of the great DBs and other recently drafted players and have estimated is SPARQ to be 125+ most of the guys with that sort of SPARQ aren’t even taller than 6’1his agility drills alone are unique for the top corner backs, with his length at 6’3 he is probably the freakiest Seahawks style corner they could ever draft, the rarest of rare athletes. He has the production and could legitimately compete with Sherman and be his future successor.
Here’s an article detailing trends in Seattle for their CB and some other metrics.
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/4/17/5615666/nfl-draft-2014-sparq-profiling-part-8-cornerback/in/4125461
I’ve been around Track and Field my entire life. There is a rule about hand times and that is with a ‘good’ hand time you add .24 seconds for an equivalent laser time. Humans don’t react very quickly :p
I was thinking the same thing. 4.2 is impressive.
Although combine does hand start/laser finish I think??
No I believe the combine goes ‘first movement’ instead of a gun/beep start sound
And it is all electronic
Despite my UW loathing(Go Cougs) I’d like to have King as a Seahawk.
I have the same feeling (Go Cougs). In my house the rule is when Jermaine Kearse does something good he is a Seahawk. When he does something not so good he is a silly Husky again.
hmm, he is mostly Husky then
Sidney Jones is special… agreed? King and Jones played across the field from each other and there was little doubt who the better DB was. Is there a chance that changes in the pros and King becomes better do to his superior size?
Any time you change the level of competition some guys rise to the challenge, and some guys fade. It’s inexplicable; maybe certain players got by with certain elite traits that play well in college but are more ordinary in the pro’s, and some guys who’s strengths weren’t challenged or needed as much to play college ball find that they have the right makeup for the next level. Correct me if I’m wrong but was anyone talking about Sherman as an elite college-level player? I really don’t know why this happens, but I think it definitely does. Want-to, grit, mental makeup has a lot to do with it, I’m sure, especially when considering Seattle DB’s.
Remember how Reggie Bush was considered a game-changing next-level player? And everyone crowed when he wasn’t taken #1? And then you have guys like David Johnson who was under the radar but a much much better pro. Go figure.
I’d be all for King, “he’s adept and covering crossing routes… he broke up 15 passes in 2016” this is what works opposite Sherman we know cause that’s Byron Maxwell to a T. Also solid long speed, length, and freaky short area quickness at that size have to make him a consideration and 26. I think a 4.45 would solidify him as a first round pick. Like what happened with Bruce Irvin, it only takes one team to want him.
Great write-up as always, Rob, and King looked really good in that highlight tape, the type of coverage and ball break-up skills that you want in a starting corner. I’m so psyched about this deep draft because no matter what happens, we’ll be getting a talented player that can really help our team in the 1st round!
Marshon Lattimore might be my favorite player in the draft outside Fournette and Garrett. An unnamed AFC scout described why perfectly “he’s so athletic he can just post up under a receivers chin and shadow him all around the field.” This kid is seriously a freak, the whole package. May be a hot take but he reminds me of Review in the way it seems he could be whispering in the receivers ear most of the time. I’ll go out on a limb and say he’ll be a ROY candidate
Revis*
He’s really really good!!
Jumps way off the tape
I think he’s easily better than Eli Apple
The thing about King that sets him apart is his run support and he never gives up on plays. He can definitely set the edge on the corner. I love him.
Always liked King. He’s just an excellent prospect at a key position in need.
Based on PC’s self stated draft focus, my Seahawky-est targets for the first pick would be
Bolles
Reddick
King (+modest trade down?)
I agree 1000 % Eric with this. In a perfect world Bolles somehow falls or Reddick is on the board. Either guy is a top 10 talent IMO and have a huge impact as a rookie.
If not King is the ideal Hawks CB opposite Sherm and the slight move back to pick up an extra 3-4th round pick would be ideal.
I think you nailed it.
Options are looking good. For king it feels like a trade down and get him in the 2nd
I get this feeling that as his length gets more attention and value and that same happens with combine results, we never get a shot at him again if we don’t use P1.
King and the combine:
https://t.co/4weYENSlrQ
Very possible. But if he goes early there’s a number of other prospects I like just as much
Just saying it may be difficult to trade down for him.
It’s hard to tell how good king is from the video highlights but I like what I see. He definitely brings a youthful swagger that the Seahawks would love. #ballhawk
For the record,I’d like King too. But a question the Hawks will have to ask themselves is, what positions and of what quality are we looking for in the draft?
If they are looking for an quality R1 or R2 player, in our discussions anyway, we only have Reddick, Davis and Bowser (and Bowser appears to be somewhat of a drop from the first two) LBs on our list in the top 100. If we take any CB with P1, we will miss Reddick and Davis for sure and Bowser will be all that left before taking another class drop. However, if P1 is a LB, we at least have a shot at Reddick and Davis. We could also have a good shot at a quality CB (not King, but it is a give and take) like Douglas, Conley, Q.Wilson, Awuzie, Moreau or H.Wilson – lots of options compared to the LB group.
If I were the FO, I take Reddick or Davis then Douglas or next best CB available rather than King and he next best LB available (with or without Bowser being available and as the draft approaches I think it likely he’ll move up and not be available either)
All depends on the positions they want and class level at each. CBs are definitely deeper in quality and quantity than LBs this year. Sure could point to taking a LB first. However, if CB is determined to be the bigger need and they want King quality (assuming he is available) that could put him P1.
Completely agree with your reasoning. I think a QUALITY LB is more of a need than most think. And as you mentioned, they could still get a quality DB (CB or S) in round two.
SDB followers have had a nice back & forth on trading next years pick for another pick this year. I doubt it will happen, but I can sure see the temptation to pull the trigger. Barring major injuring to a significant player the Hawks should have a better record this year. Where as I pridicted 10-6 or 11-5 for last year, I could see them going 11-5 or 12-4 (or better) this upcoming year. Instead of the 26th this year, perhaps they are in the 30s next year with a lesser talent pool. (Remember, we all saw this years class as one of the best.)
Therefore, why not trade next years R1 for a quality pick this year? This year is a potential gold mine of talent. I don’t think it is hyperbole to say that this could be a make or break draft class for this regime during the remainder of their SB window.
As you say, it is a temptation, but one that should probably be resisted.
If one of our key players does have a career-ending injury, perhaps causing us to end up with a worse record than we hope for next year, then not only do we lose out on a higher R1 pick, but we also have no R1 pick with which to fill that gaping hole.
And honestly, I think every year’s draft class is seen as a potential gold mine. It’s a subjective thing because we fall in love with some players that we believe could help our team. While it is undeniably true that certain positions are deeper each year, I don’t think it is objectively true of drafts as whole.
I am all for trading up, but let’s use this year’s picks, or in any case some later ones if they are from next year. Just like this year we think just a couple pieces will put us over the top, we will think the same next year too…
I just saw Tony Pauline has a 5th round grade on Reddick.
Tony will update that list soon no doubt. He also called Reddick a top-50 player after the Senior Bowl if I recall.
Option 1. If the Hawks can come up with a left tackle in free agency I would almost be tempted to go defense with the Hawks first four picks. The exception would be a running back. Such as Brian Hill.
Hill sounds like a power house. 6’1. 230 pounds Over 4200 yards rushilng, 35 rushing TDs. Tough dude.
Option 2. Totally different senario if Byron Maxwell is released (doubul) but you never know. Hawks sign Maxwell. This would change the drafting philosophy for the 2017 NFL draft.
BTW : Brock Huard is a fan of Ramczyk. Huard says if Ramczyk is on the board the Hawks should take him . Even if they sign a free agent . Tackle. Howver, I think it is highly unlikely Ramczyk will still be on the board for JS to snag,
As you say, Maxwell being released is unlikely. I have looked into it a bit more, and “unlikely” really isn’t the word; it would be a total shock surprise.
1. He just missed the top 10 CB1 list this year. He allowed a 68.9 passer rating. (#10 was Jimmy Smith with 68.5)
2. He still has $5m guaranteed out of his $8.5m cap hit this year. So I think we can safely rule out the Dolphins cutting the #11 ranked CB1 in the league in order to save a measly $3.5m when they have an estimated $42m in cap space heading into 2017. (They are actually rolling over $8.3m from this season and they just cut Mario Williams, gaining $8.5m, and Brandon Albert, saving $7.5m. They don’t need the room or a big hole in their secondary.)
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/
I’m not slamming you for throwing the idea out there; I actually did the same a while back. I’m just saying I think we can safely forget about it. (and we haven’t even gotten into the discussion on whether or not the Hawks would actually pay up with such a deep CB class this year. Once again, no need to even have the dicussion IMO.)
On your other points, can defintely see them going heavy on defense. I think JS went heavy on offense last year knowing the strength of the draft would be defense this year. For me, it will be 3 defensive players and an OT project with the R3 Comp. You can wait and get Brian Hill or whichever depth RB you like in later rounds (R5-R7).
On Ramczyk, it’s a tough call if he were to drop due to injuries. He’s rumored to be super athletic. If they think he is also smart and tough, seems like a no-brainer, but would nevertheless be tough if Reddick or Jarrad Davis were still on the board as well.
Hill has moved up into the 2nd round per Walter Football. People are catching on.
Don’t know if his hand’s are as good as Bell’s, butt I see the same running style.
Leveon Bell has a good butt, however not sure if it’s better than his hands
Jake Butt has the same running style? Butt he’s a TE…
🙂
Kenneth Arthur has a series going over on Field Gulls highlighting the FA and potential cap casualties for each team. Here’s another name to look into perhaps:
Kayvon Webster, CB. (5-11, 198, 26 yrs.)
“A third round pick out of South Florida, Webster has 32.5” arms and ran a 4.41 at the combine with a 35” vert and 10’5 broad jump, so that alone is enough to make you wonder. There are reports that Denver wants to bring him back but also that Webster wants to get paid more than what the Broncos could potentially offer him. Playing in the best CB unit in the NFL, Webster has only really been on special teams the last two seasons, but he had two tackles and a huge pass breakup in the 2015 AFC Championship win over the New England Patriots. Webster could be the value steal of free agency this year, who knows. Maybe he wants an opportunity to start opposite of Richard Sherman rather than stay behind Aqib Talib and Chris Harris. I’ve got my eye on what happens with Webster.”
Unlikely, I know, with such a deep CB class, but good to at least have some idea of who else is out there.
The only concern with the CB rookies, regardless of how good they are, is that Seattle doesn’t often start rookies, but want them to train and learn in their system first. I am hopeful the quality of this class and our pick(s) and our needs might justify starting one of our new CB rookies early.
A few articles outlining the fact there are a number of pending LT free agents incl Okung, Beachum, Clady, and possibly Albert. Clayton indicating that based on last year’s soft market one of these guys might be had on a ST deal for $5-6m. This might play right into JSPSs hands in terms of focusing on defense in the draft. Would also allow them to add another higher priced FA. Most rank way ahead of Fant/Gilliam in terms of performance on PFF (big grain of salt) Wondering if there are any opinions on which guy to go for?
Of that group I’d only be interested in Okung
Why are you not interested in Beachum?
Do you not think Beachum could bounce back to his previous form being a year removed from his ACL injury. He only missed 1 game with a concussion after being kicked in the head
Free agency and trades is the only way for there to be legitimate competition at tackle and Okung is just as likely if not more likely to get injured.
Wasn’t a fan when he was at Pittsburgh. Two teams have moved on from him now. It’s a pass for me.
fair enough
Not a great fan of Beachum myself but two teams moved on from Okung too (if he is available for us).
Well, yes and no. Okung’s situation with the no agent thing a year ago has had a big part to play in two teams potentially moving on. Pitt made very little effort to retain Beachum and now Jacksonville has moved on. Okung is a far better player IMO.
I am with you Rob about Okung if the $ is right. Have to wonder though if he is interested in coming back. He stayed relatively healthy last year not playing in our scheme.
I think that is why we have a huge issue attracting quality veteran OL. As you have stated many times the OL scheme we run seems to be really hard on guys injury wise. Certainly not the type of scheme you want to come play in on a short term prove it deal if you have any injury issues.
It’s hard to imagine ANY of them being worse than Fant. I like Fant’s future potential, but for a $5-6mil prove it deal, I would take pretty much any of those guys just so there’s real competition at a critical position.
That said, Okung is my #1 on that list too. I thought it was a mistake to let him walk, and I would be happy to see him back.
I’d take Fant developing over all but Okung. It’s not a good group.
I noticed this draft from Chad Reuter at nfl.com a day or 2 ago and have some concerns.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000786173/article/reuter-4round-mock-draft-top-talent-drops-with-early-qb-run
If it were to fall this way, it could be great for us, we could get Reddick in the 1st, Obi in the 2nd, and King in the 3rd. But he has the Seahawks with our 1st comp. pick at the end of the 4th. I remember reading months ago that the 3rd round comp. for Irvin was only a possibility as the last possible 3rd round comp. pick, which could get dropped to a 4th. Is he just speculating? I mean a lot of this draft is fantasy as it is; almost a month after his great Senior Bowl practice week he has Obi going in the 3rd round.
Since Irvin is the last to be considered for a 3rd round comp. pick at the 10 mil. range, it could possibly be moved to a 4th. J.R. Sweezy was seemingly bumped up from to a 5th from a 6th which is where I saw him rated over the last few months. Does that mean we now have a 5th (comp. not regular 5th – taken away for OTA violation) and not a 6th this year? Of course we won’t know where we are for sure on comp. picks until they are awarded by the NFL – in 2016, comp. picks were awarded on March 11th. Here’s some more info on comp. picks so far at overthecap.com:
http://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/
http://overthecap.com/projecting-2017-compensatory-draft-picks/
What a shame we didn’t cut Webb a couple-few games earlier; he was cut after the point where it counted against us being eligible for a 6th round comp. pick for losing Okung or Mebane. As far as how many comp. picks you get (not to exceed 32 total comp. picks for the league), since we lost 4 eligible FAs and signed 2 we can only get 2, doesn’t matter that the 2 we lost were good and the 2 we signed stunk. Any thoughts on his draft or the comp. picks, Rob?
It’s going to be interesting to see how the compensatory picks play out, with both Bruce Irvin and Damon Harrison earning 9 mil this year. OTC has Irvin netting a 3rd and Harrison a 4th to the Jets, so I could see that dropping Irvin’s to a 4th, unfortunately. I know we’re hoping it sticks as a 3rd though!
Looking for a favorable Seahawks comp pick outcome come, fingers crossed that the current comp pics listed on OTC hold up.
Toes crossed we catch an extra break with Okung and that comp pick moves up from 5 to a 4 or a 3.
We could get one monster draft if that five turns into something better, especially a 3.
Sherman Smith on Brock and Saulk show, says he was thinking about whether or not to step away from coaching, and after the last game Pete told him he thought it was time to make a change. Offered him the option of some other role on the staff, but Smith didn’t want it.
Smith had originally intended to retire with Marshawn, but Marshawn told him he should stay another year and coach Thomas Rawls.
Rawls put a lot of pressure on himself after his rookie season to be “the guy” and wanted to make the perfect cut every time, etc. and he would frustrate himself when he didn’t instead of just getting out there and running with no worries and having fun. He needs to “free his mind”. When he gets back to that, he will provide a great run game for the Seahawks.
On run game struggles: inexperience and lack of continuity up front, injuries at RB, and no Marshawn. Marshawn “made a lot of things that were wrong right.”
OL development was hampered by changes, but “will be better this year than they were last year, no doubt about it.”
On what the Hawks need to do to get back to SB: players need to get hungrier. PC can only do so much, the rest is on the players.
http://sports.mynorthwest.com/category/podcast_player/?a=10015695&sid=&n=
When it comes to Okung, Albert, Beachum, and Clady I am sure that JS will do his do dilegence. We will see what happens. I think that JS will at least sign one free agent offensive lineman and draft at least one offensive lineman. Minimum. Personally I do think the offensive line will be much improved this year. Also I have to admit that Rob has me intrigued with Brian Hill. With all that being said. It’s time to rebuild the defense.
Here is what I would do:
Sign a quality DT in free agency — a known quantity that can collapse the pocket and won’t break the bank. Trade up to get in front of Denver and get that tackle (either Bolles or Ramczyk). Snag the best corner available with the second pick wherever it lands. Add depth at LB and safety later in the draft. That would match team need with the strength of this years class.
What JT/PS will do:
Draft whoever they like, honeybadger style. Not the db from AZ but the don’t care that all the guys we love here are still available…..and they are picking who again? Bring em in to camp to compete; rinse and repeat. They will prolly be pretty good, too.
I’m more inclined to go with history regarding selecting a corner in the draft. I think these two players have a distinct possibility as draft prospects from Utah for the Hawks. Instead of an Rd for a corer, Allen is my selection @ 211 or 230. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_dvH64Ug4I
“Instead of an early Rd for a corner”
Ok, we can pick up Allen as a project if he tests well enough at the combine. But if we are talking about a guy who can possibly fill the hole left by Shead’s injury at CB2 early on, I think it’s going to have to be someone a lot earlier.
It’s not just length, King is downright freaky athletic (as Rob has pointed out, we are talking possibly some of the best testing times in the history of the combine), plus he has ball skills and some swag.
Not saying King will be our guy for sure, but if our draft pick is really going to compete for the starting job opposite Sherm early on, it will have to be someone with those kind of traits+skills.
Still think Obi might 1 up him anyway at the combine and be the target. Maybe they like either one. If there was ever a year with CB prospects worth breaking the mold of history, it is this year!
A 1st Rd pick placed upon a rookie to become part of the LOB is a lot of pressure to live up to. Early on, I’ve advocated for Rasul Douglas to fill that right corner position due to his physicality & his maturity. But, that was @ the 90th or 105th picks. Things have changed since then. His stock has risen. For this draft, the cupboards are full with regard to talented corners to play the right side.
The talent @ OT & LB has a greater drop off after the 1st two rounds than @ CB. For that reason I anticipate drafting for that position will come 3rd Rd or later. If King, Douglas or Witherspoon are still there @ 90 or 105, great! Witherspoon, perhaps may still be available, it’s hard to say. That’s why I’m looking later for that option.
Brian Allen is 6-3 208lb former WR, that converted to corner 2yrs ago. He never played defense before, similar to Sherm. Placed in the right environment he could excel, with not all the pressure to succeed. He’s long and physical, as well a mature. Just the right ingredients. I’ll be watching his 40 @ Pro Day.
Let’s also remember that PC knew Sherm since middle school. He played on his sons Pop Warner team. He knew what he was getting.
Another thing to consider is the Sherm factor. He’s been there done that. Sherm would be more than willing to show him the ropes of that transition to corner, since both were low round picks. There’s a lot to learn coming into the league on the edge. A lot more is demanded from a 1st rounder, when your the only one in that DB room.
WALL UP, you make some valid points. But consider as well that we currently have 4 guys with the required length who have already been in the system for various amounts of time and look to me at least (eye test) to be a lot more athletic than Allen. Some of them even put up leading numbers at their respective combines:
Stanley Jean-Baptiste
Muhammed Seisay
DeAndre Elliot
Pierre Desir
That’s enough developmental swings at CB on the roster for me. If we’re going to take another corner, he had better have something more to offer IMO. (not saying give up on these projects, of course, hopefully one of them steps up this year.)
And as far as pressure goes, we need the guys who thrive under the spotlight, cause if you are playing opposite the best CB in the league, boy are you are going to get some attention and feel the pressure, regardless of draft stock.
That’s added reasons for not investing a high 1st Rd pick for a corner.
I personally hope for a LB (The Reddick guy) in 1st Round, and then a CB/DB in the 2nd. LB is a need.
On the players you mentoned, I totally agree that all four could provide solid competition on the spot, but there needs to be added some solid talent with a high pick.
All the guys you listed except elliot i would be happy to see cut, their development hasn’t been promising at all
No need to wait for Pro Day; he’ll be at the Combine!
Let’s see how he does! It should be interesting.
I highly doubt any more than 1 of those CBs make the team this year.
Just looking over the end of season nfl1000 rankings and have noticed that although Bobby, K.J. and Kam are all rated highly at their positions they are all being held back mainly by their grades in coverage from being the best at their respective positions. As I was thinking earlier in the year the coverage on the short area throws needs to improve either by scheme adaptation or changes in coaches or personnel. Blaming the holes the cover 3 produces isn’t an excuse for the coverage to not be better.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2685170-nfl1000-final-regular-season-breakdown-of-the-leagues-top-players
Question:
Are the Seahawks going to be interested in signing a big name DT? (i.e Dontari Poe)
Also, which linemen are Seattle likely to sign?
Probably more likely than Calais Campbell. but it’s unlikely unless his position and injury history doesn’t drop his market value as that is likely the only way Seattle could legitimately compete with some of the other teams.
And what are your guys thoughts on Miami guard Danny Isidora?
In case people were wondering why RB Joe Williams left football for some time, here is an article on that.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/utahs-williams-reveals-real-reason-he-left-football/ar-AAn1qLM?li=BBnb7Kz
Also, for the purpose of fairness, worth noting that this is a huge PR month for agents. Joe Mixon is apparently doing the media rounds shortly. That’s not to compare Williams’ situation to Mixon’s but worth noting what agents are doing right now.
It is definitely that time of year. I am going to be following Mixon very closely this next month. This is going to be a very interesting pre-draft.
I remember reading during thr CFB season that Williams was stepping away to get his head straight. Now realizing the situation and his mentality, I think it was warranted. I hope for that things go well for Williams.
Would anyone want Williams as a late round pick?
Damn.
That was rough.
23 yo kid been through some heavy life sh** already.
PR or not. That’s heavy stuff for a kid to tote around.
I have spent some time comparing the college production and NFL production of the top Cornerbacks in the NFL.
As you might think the CBs who had high int numbers in college have consistently had better interception numbers in the Pros compared to their peers they tend to average 3+ ints a year over the course of their college career while starting. All the big name stars have generally followed the same trend. There are very few if any outliers I have found so far. Kevin King had 2 ints this year and 6 in the last 3, that sort of production isn’t going to get significantly better in the NFL. Someone like Howard Wilson or Rasul Douglas may not be as great athletes or as skilled in coverage as King but that can be coached, picking of the ball seems to be an innate ability and Kevin King just doesn’t have. This leaves very little upside as a play-maker if all he can do is bat the ball away.
This may also be the reason Seattle doesn’t draft CBs in the earlier rounds as they miss out on all the interception-makers who go early and are left with ready to play corners who don’t have great interception skills. These players would still need to be broken down and re-taught the Seahawks brand of Cornerback play but without the playmaking upside.
Fair point. This stat also makes a Tedric Thompson type player even more intriguing.
Good info, thanks.
Sherman also only had 6 ints in his two years as CB in college, FWIW, so maybe it can be coached a bit as well.
Maybe shutting down one third of the field is just as valuable as interceptions too…
Sherman only played corner for 2 years 2 picks the first year, 4 picks in his second year. Averaging 3 picks a year.which is really the bench mark for high level NFL production.
Kevin King had totals of 0, 1,3 and 2. even if you remove his freshman year he still averaged only 2 picks a year.
Rod Woodson, #3 in history for career NFL interceptions, had two picks in his final year of college football.
He also tied the school record in Int’s, had 5 picks the year before and is in the college football hall of fame.He was an insane athlete for his time and you really can’t compare the two.
I’m not comparing the two as players.
I’m merely stating that you can’t just look at the number of picks in a season and judge a players career. Woodson did get the school record but he did it over four years. He had two picks before turning pro.
Sidney Jones is a classic example. He had only three picks in 2016. Teams barely ever threw at him. You can’t use his production to judge his talent or potential.
I’m not judging on only a single year but all of his years at college.
Kevin king had 6 picks in 4 years. Sidney Jones had 8 picks in 3 years.
It’s unlikely he will become significantly better at making interception when he reaches the NFL
For example Desmond trufant has 7 career ints in the nfl and only had 6 while at washington.
King may become a very good corner, however interception rate is pretty consistent from college to the pros and doesn’t seem to be a skill that can be coached up whereas technique can be
Kevin King’s six college interceptions are the exact same number as Richard Sherman at Stanford.
Box score scouting.
As stated in my earlier comment, Sherman literally doubled the interception rate per year of Kevin King while also being less experienced at the position.
Wow so you’re saying King is more consistent.?!
What can a guy do, not what he can’t.
King has had consistently had lower interception totals maxing out at 3. With that being a trait that isn’t likely to change in the NFL his playmaking upside is limited.
If all other elite corner back traits can be coached then why go for the guy with the limited upside with an earlier pick.
With the seahawks use of the cover 3, interceptions are even more valuable as there is usually someone available for a short gain.Against elite QBs this defense can be picked apart in this instance an interception is even more important.
Kevin king may be one of the elite cover guys but he is very unlikely to be an elite playmaker he hasn’t shown that sort of production in college and it’s unlikely to change
More box score scouting.
Maybe teams didn’t try to throw to the outside of Washington’s D?
It’s not like he never had a pick.
It’s not like you saw something on tape that makes you think he can’t intercept the ball.
You’re just detracting from a players accomplishments.
Maybe no-one ever tried him.
How would you know if those were the only three targets he got all year?
He would have a 100% interception per target rate and be the ultimate playmaker.
You can’t say “he intercepted three balls, he can’t intercept balls”
Also the degree of difficulty on his interceptions =shut up with this narrative
What you’re doing Leo is you’ve made a conclusion and now you’re twisting all the counter evidence to work in your favour.
And it’s still box score scouting.
I have said that there is a trend in the average number of interceptions in college that carries on into the pros the guys with elite interception numbers in college tend to be able to replicate that success at the professional level. Elite athletes + elite production in college tends to lead to better pro players this is true for any position. There are always exceptions. Drafting Kevin King and expecting him to have a bunch of ints is essentially expecting him to be an outlier
You’re really going all-in on this, aren’t you Leo?
Sorry dude, but this isn’t going to stick. When guys like Reggie Nelson are capable of leading the NFL in interceptions there’s no rhyme or reason to compare college production to NFL stats. A whole bunch of players have a whole bunch of picks for varying reasons. A whole bunch of players get no picks for a whole bunch of reasons. Some guys never get targeted — even in college. They might get targeted a load more in the NFL, especially if they’re lining up across from someone like Richard Sherman. It’s totally plausible for a player to get a bunch of picks one year and get none the next.
It’s just something I’m not willing to pay any attention to whatsoever. It really is the definition of box score scouting.
1. You don’t have to get picks to be effective.
2. “Elite production” is a box scouting term.
3. His passes defensed shows an obviously effective player who is maybe more conservative than say an Asante Samuel.
4. Teams value production differently. Would you rather have a guy with 4 picks every year in the SEC or
9 at the fbs level*
5. Saying that because he didnt get picks in college he won’t get them at the next level is much less true than suggesting he will improve every facet of his game at the next level.
6. Because of the upside of his athletic profile and obvious technical ability (not elite production, but the tape) it is very fair to say he has potential as a ‘playmaker’ (suggesting that interceptions are the only valuable plays (you can be a playmaking tackler, pass rusher, pass defender)).
7. You also suggest that intercepting the ball cannot be coached up in prospects.
Reggie Nelson follows the trend. 6 picks his final year. Averaged 3.5ints at florida.
Sidney Jones was the corner being avoided at Washington and he still had more picks.
I have said Kevin King has potential to be a very good player but he is unlikely to do that by making interceptions. In my opinion that is not the sort of player the Seahawks should be looking for.
It is plausible for a player to not fit the trend but that would be a deviation from the norm.
But — and this is the final time now, we need to move on after this — you are not basing this on anything trustworthy. As I and others have stated, it is box score scouting. It is thoroughly worthless information being used to accumulate an assertion that is based on nothing but numbers on a piece of paper. Your numbers have absolutely no way of discerning why a player has or hasn’t accumulated interceptions. Your numbers don’t represent targets, opponents, scenarios, fortune. Anything. They don’t project how that environment will change at the next level. How situation helps a player. How they are able to improve. So many factors.
It’s just box score scouting. And with respect, relatively worthless.
Let’s just see what happens.
Lets not, considering it’ll take five years for you to prove any kind of point. And even then you’ll find the guys that fit your argument. You formed a conclusion with an incomplete set of data with the glaring problem that it’s nowhere near an exact science when it comes to this particular position and statistic, with no accounting for environment which is also so vital.
It’s time to move on.
NFL Network’s Mike Garafolo reported on Saturday that [ex Dolphins DT Earl] Mitchell has visits scheduled with the Seattle Seahawks, San Francisco 49ers, Atlanta Falcons and Denver Broncos beginning next week, per a source informed of the player’s plans.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000786600/article/former-dolphins-dt-earl-mitchell-to-meet-with-4-teams
He’s listed at 6-3, 310. 8th year pro. Will be 30 in Sept.
Looks like JS will be scraping around the FA market for DL bargains as usual.
He’s actually very good. They wanted a couple years ago too, but he signed with Miami.
Smilar to Clint McDonald.
Mitchell is a good shout
I think it’s encouraging that they are looking at him. Probably more of a solid run defender than pass rusher, but he can rush and he’s an athletic DT with some wheels. It probably signals they want to get a little more athletic inside, and a bit younger than Tony McDaniel, but with a proven veteran.
If nothing gets done, I’d keep an eye out for Terrell McClain, Chris Baker, Bennie Logan, Nick Fairley, Stephen Paea, Dominque Easley, Tyson Alualu, Sylvester Williams, Karl Klug, and my growing favorite Lawrence Guy to name a few. There’s going to be some players out there.
Mitchell will be a great get for the Hawks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij07QepVcyI
Very good chance DL free agent bargains will be the order of the day.
Seattle has cap room, but not masses. Adding to the rotation could be the key here.
Did this on fanspeak:
Please give me your thoughts:
1. Hasson Reddick
2. Kevin King
3. Demarcus Walker
3. Tedric Thompson
5. Elijah Hood
6. Danny Isidora
7. Stevie T
When I saw the simulator have Walker still available
at the end of the third, I couldn’t pass it up. Same with Hood at the end of round 5. I love what this draft would add to our defense… but the underinvestment in the o-line could hurt. I’m assuming here we bring in some quality veterans (maybe okung).
What big board were you using?
I have run some similar mock there with very close to the exact results. I sure like the outcomes, but I think after more scruteny, hype and combine results, many of the names we have on the Hawks big board will rise quickly and completely change who is available when our turns come around. As satisfying as it is for me to produce and read results like these, I always tone down my excitement knowing the reality of the ranking of the big board is still fairly unrealistic. Doesn’t stop me from liking you mock and others like it. Fingers crossed. Those first 4 picks would be monsters if they were real.
Love it! We are thinking along the same lines. Wish it could come true. Most around here will probably think it is not realistic. I’m not sure if mine below is realistic either, but maybe it would help to try and trade up to mid R2 to get one of those CBs without having to use our first pick.
Curious, which big board did you select for your fanspeak mock draft?
Mine wasn’t Fanspeak, just going off possible Seahawks targets we’ve identified and slotting them in a range I think they reasonably might be available.
While it might be true that we at times project the guys we like to go a higher than they will, I find Fanspeak just gives me so many irrealistic options that it doesn’t make it worth using except as a format tool to spit out the picks. (Even then, you have to wait while it calculates the other team’s picks.)
The other huge downside is that it has no notion at all of BPA, so it just goes in order of positional need even if great talent is available at another position.
Move Ifedi to RT and get someone to play LT (okung maybe). I like the picks but there is no Oline
Love the pics. Just don’t know if those guys will still be on the board in those respective rounds. Example: Some people have Kenny King late first early 2nd. Don’t think King will still be on the board when JS is on the clock in the 2nd round. It’s highly unlikely. But if he is their, by all means grab him. Etc.etc
Fallback option at each slot in case our main target is off the board:
R1- LB Reddick/Davis
Add another Alpha to our pack. Simple as that.
R2- (Trade up w/R3 comp into mid R2) CB Kevin King/Obi Melifonwu
Viable option from the get-go at CB2 and long term high ceiling as Sherm’s eventual replacement.
R3- S/CB Tedric Thompson/Marcus Maye
Thompson is becoming a must-have for me. Range, instincts, agression, and ball skills to back up Earl at FS, and versatility to play in the slot when the matchup dictates.
***LOB reloaded***
R5 Comp- DT Stevie Tu’ikolovatu/Grover Stewart
Let those LB’s run free and see if the big boys don’t have some untapped pass rush potential in them. That’s been the trend with our DTs lately (Reed, Jenkins). Stevie T said in interview he was never even taught or asked to rush.
R6- OL project (TEF pending…)
They sign some veteran insurance in FA and keep faith in the guys they’ve got growing together as a unit.
R7- RB Taquan Mizzell/Devante Mays
Think while most are looking for a bruiser, they add a different profile to the RB room. Running people over is one way to break a tackle at times, making people miss is another.
UDFA- CB Jeremy Cutrer
Couldn’t resist adding him in, just too Seahawky. Needs a year or two with pro nutritionists as he learns the Hawk CB Way.
UDFA- WR Keevan Lucas
Small guy, long arms, great hands, big plays. Not sure he won’t be drafted, but have to keep putting his name out there anyway.
Taquan Mizzell is quickly becoming one of those sentimental favorites I have in the draft so far, somewhat like Tyler Ervin was for me last year. He is definitely one of those shake and bake type of backs that has 100 different jukes and is all about making you miss (but not running over or through you to break tackles). Would also be kinda cool having a guy named “Smoke” on the team. If I had a hesitation it would be that he seems to be of a similar mold (smaller version) as Prosise and even more similar to Lockett, so there is the concern we might have too much duplication of smaller backs going on when we need stronger backs that can perhaps provide something different and can also stay healthy. This is also one of my driving reasons I have a hard time letting go of the idea of Perine, especially as he is often mentioned in write-ups as one of those rare freak (insanely strong) college athletes. That we could use.
https://youtu.be/WIdi6bwvN8Y
I liked Perine at first when I watched some tape, but since then Rob has kind of cooled me off towards him because that strength that is so dominant at the college level might (I repeat, might) not be so special in the pros. At least it is enough of a factor to make me not comfortable spending a R3-R4 pick on him, which I think is probably the range he goes.
We have Alex Collins to back up Rawls, the idea with Mizzell would be to back up Prosise’s 3rd down pass catching abilites. While he is similar in some ways to Prosise or even Lockett (open field threat), I don’t think we have a video-game, ankle-breaking juker type in the stable that can work his magic in tight spaces. He actually said in an interview he initially took his moves from Madden!
Added benefit is that he can make the guys that our pourous OL elects to allow unblocked into the backfield miss. I kid… kind of… 😉
DEMARCUS WALKER
Going off topic here for a minute. With the multitude of suggestions for Seahawk picks over many possible positions, and with this assumption that the front office is going to do something outside of the draft to help with the offense of line, I have enjoyed the recent refocusing back on linebackers, cornerbacks and safeties. There have been some great suggestions, comments and statistics thrown out there that I for one have really enjoyed digesting.
Now for the off-topic part. One of the trends I have seen recently that I would have a lot of interest in having Rob address is not necessarily the DL position in general, but prospect of selecting Demarcus Walker specifically (and at what point in the draft does he become somebody we should look at, if at all). There is a link below to a previous and very positive write-up Rob had on him ( and there are obviously many more positive right ups like that I’m him out there). Before the flurry of discussions on and off the blog regarding the cornerbacks in the draft (quality and depth) and the linebackers, there was a lot of discussion about the Marcus Walker and he has some amazing highlight footage on YouTube as well. However, some of the most recent articles I have read about Walker are now related to his drop on many people’s big board, somewhat due to his tweener physical size as a DE and the additional focus at other positions that continue to climb up the board.
Nichansen’s post above got me thinking about this again as he did something I have already done several times in several of my mock drafts, which was selecting Marcus Walker with our second or third pick, as he seemed to be an incredible value and was still available there.
I would be interested to hear Rob’s and your thoughts on if and/or when Walker could become an option for us with one of our picks. (I.e. Could we really pass on him at #105, how about #95, #58?). I have some additional thoughts on the subject, but will hold them until I see what kind of replies come in.
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/week-one-risers-hello-demarcus-walker-dan-feeney.
Where do you play him? After the Shrine & Senior bowl measurements came in it showed how much teams exaggerate their players weight and or height.
I’m willing to bet he comes in at 6’0, 270-275 lbs. With a frame that looks maxed out. Is he a Darryl Tapp like player at the next level?
Following up on your response, does the concern with his size and not having a natural position provide enough concern to let him go by? Not a fit at DT? Not a loaded question, he’s a great player, but if there is not a good place on our roster to have him play, that seems sufficient justification to let him go by. Just looking for opinions as he seems to be a high-quality player dropping on the boards, but somewhat of an anomaly/challenge to find a fit for him.
Not a fit at DT depending on how measures.
He is a good player. Perhaps only at the college level. We see it all the time. These guys with all the accolades and production, but no athleticism or traits and they flame out quickly. There’s gotta be something there to work with.
I just have a sinking feeling he’s gonna be really small.
I’m curious about the rumors of possible personality issues reportedly coming in from some scouts.
For real!!
I don’t think that’s accurate at all.
His coaches praise him unflappably. He’s a coach’s son and a leader in their defense
That’s what I thought too, Kenny. Hope these rumors are bogus.
Personally he seems like the exact type of tweener we might target
He a dog, regardless.
The Seahawks are going to bring in former Dolphin and Texan DT Earl Mitchell for a free agent visit this week. 29 years old, and when healthy can provide solid run defense with a little bit of interior rush. Probably a signal that they are looking to replace Tony McDonald.
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/report-seahawks-to-get-visit-from-free-agent-de-earl-mitchell/
This is the guy that will replace McDonald or Hill’s production while also being a very good run defender. If he’s signed.
That’s kinda what I think. I think he’s certainly athletic enough to do that.
It’s interesting that when Miami added Suh, his pass rush went down, but it was decent when he played with Odrick and Starks, and he flashed well for the Texans. I think there’s a chance in Seattle’s system, they could ask him to do more. Personally, I’d welcome a move like this. They get more athletic inside, and still allow for Quinton Jefferson to develop in the rotation, which I suspect is something that they would want to do.
Mitchell will be a great get for the Hawks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij07QepVcyI
Was making $4m/apy in Miami. Should be a bit cheaper now going on 30 as the season starts. Looks good to me!
I wouldn’t want him visiting ATL. I would give him a 3yr 12mil deal, 1st yr guaranteed, 5mil signing bonus similar to Rubin.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/ahtyba-rubin-2335/
Agreed Sign him. Lock him up. 🙂
Adding a veteran DL FA has been the approach for the Hawks @ DT/DE. The draft should also be a consistent source for building the DL. Reed & Jefferson have been the most recent additions, with Clark the previous yr.
One individual that has fallen out of favor by some, that could be available @ 26, is Malik McDowell. He would be a very intriguing part if their rotation for the future.
Seattle interviewed Carlos Watkins during Senior Bowl week. So the approach of the draft could be something they use this year as well.
Yeah, I caught that too. If Mitchell is signed, that may alter their focus @ DT. I’m hoping for Tupou as an addition of the DL to play nose next year. That will free Reed up to play a little 3tech as well as nose & 5tech.
I have my eye on Nazair Jones for this years DL addition for inside push @ 3tech. He’s a little bigger than Jefferson, who hasn’t started off too healthy of a professional career.
I came across an interview of Stevie Tu’ikolovatu, where he said Seattle talked with him during Senior Bowl week, as well; built pretty similarly to Tupou.
Nazair Jones is an interesting player. The guy I keep liking and will probably continually bring up is Ryan Glasgow. Just really appreciate how he played at Michigan. Not a flashy player, but gritty and tough as nails, and rushed well from the nose.
Looking over the roster, it seems that they went out of their way to load up on DL in terms of futures contracts. One guy to maybe keep an eye out for is Shaniel Jenkins who’s in that Q Jeff mold, and Rodney Coe who’s more like Reed. I could be laughed at a bit here by the suggestion, but both these players spent time with the Dallas Cowboys, and I think Seattle and Dallas have kind of a shared sense of what they like on the DL. David Irving was a player Seattle wanted, Dallas landed him. Seattle and Dallas have both pursued the same FA D-liners the last few years in Cedric Thornton, Henry Melton, and the rumor of Greg Hardy, and it’s not a shocker that word has it on the inter webs Seattle has some interest in Terrell McClain. Given the Monte Giffin and Pete Carroll history and connection, Seattle could be seeing something in Jenkins and Coe that Dallas was looking at.
Jenkins could be a bit of a dark horse hedge for Q Jeff. He had a nice pro day coming out of Shepard, ridiculous college production, and was flashing for the Cowboys before he got injured in the preseason, and was waived/injured. The team also has the rights to Clemson’s Taravis Barnes who is also in that 5 tech/3 tech mold.
They might be looking for someone who is more of a pure bigger bodied DT.
Also, I noticed Seattle kind of ridiculously loaded up on DB’s again with futures and exclusive rights. They still have JBS, and Seisay, but they added futures contract players Pierre Desir, Perish Cox, and 6-2 187 lb Demetrius McCray who was a starter at one point for the Jaguars, and would have familiarity with this defense. I went back and listened again to PC’s season ender presser and regarding corner, he said that they gotta do an excellent job coaching their players up and also seeing what the draft brings. I still think they go corner early, but it is conceivable that they hold off on taking corner right away, and maybe one of those early picks go to the DL, but it’s gotta be a pass rusher.
Its ironic. Everyone knocks our defense, but yet all the coaches around the league try and emulate it.
Dallas defensive coordinators put on the tape of Seattle this past off-season and made them study the Cover 3. Specifically the one PC runs.
Yeah, I don’t knock it at all. Seattle’s defense works, and again was the strength of this playoff team.
IMO, 6 playoff runs in 7 years, 2 Super Bowls, certain folks get tired of winning over time, and look for the big wholesale changes. IMO, that’s where all the “trade Sherman” trade Jimmy” trade Kam” “fire Bevell” “fire Cable” “”Kris Richard isn’t very good” “Russell Wilson isn’t the same” talk comes out of. To do what Seattle has done, is really difficult to do. Outside of NE, Pitt, GB, name another NFL that is pretty much been perennial contenders name another team outside of Seattle that has been in that group since 2010.
I think they’re trying to build up the back end of the depth chart so the bottom can’t fall out from under them. That and they want a competitive group this summer.
Yeah, I think you’re right. I didn’t realize that they added Demetrius McCray, though. That definitely adds to the back end of the depth chart.
RB and WR are also ridiculously loaded up. Noticeably not loaded up on futures or exclusive rights is OL, and LB, and while they have a number of corners, not much in the way of safety, interestingly enough.
He’s only had has 5.5 career sacks. so probably more of the production lost by Brandon Mebane.
It’s not always about sacks for interior rushers though, hurries are a big factor.
I was talking about hurries.
That’s what Mebane produced.
Leo man, your box score scouting.
Let’s say, for example, that Seattle does indeed grab a CB in the 1st round… (King)
What should be the second and third round position group targets be? SS, LB, TE, OL ?
I have this funny feeling, TE Adam Shaheen might be a legit target for Seattle in the third round.
Something about this guy is very intriguing. Size. Productivity. Complete TE. The other 3rd round pick might very well be a RB, such as Hood. Would it be a slight overdraft, perhaps.. but if he is the guy who fits the offense, you draft him. I would not risk waiting until the 5th round.
Maybe Tyus Bowser (LB)? Antonio Garcia (OT)?
I would prefer Reddick or Bolles at 26 then a DB in the 2nd
Greg, 100% on the same page with you. Bolles (prob gone), then Reddick or Davis (may be arid to have them fall) with P1. The LBs drop quickly and we should make every effort to one of the top (rare) dogs if at all possible. Then CB.
It wouldnt matter if Marshawn Lynch came walking through that door. Any time a RB has to change his stride to match the movement, in this case backwards, of an O-line, he’s dead in the water.
Don’t be surprised if the 1st round pick is another O-lineman. Even if its a ‘reach.’
Hey, Vol. Have you had a good look at Ramczyk? What’s your take? No-brainer if he drops to 26 due to injury concerns?
For me? Absolutely.
I’ve watched Ramcyzk all year and we’ve discussed him in length since that PFF article named him as one to monitor.
Raw, but loads of upside. Put on that LSU tape from this year, his 1st game ever, and watch him destroy 2018 top 10 pick DE Arden Key.
Anyone that has some thoughts on Washington DE/OLB Joe Mathis? It may be my weakspot for Huskies shining through, but would he be a fit? Projected to be a Day 2 draft pick.
Love him. Probably a SAM for Seattle. It would be interesting to see how Seattle views him.
Does anyone know who the Hawks plan on replacing Sherm Smith? Inside guy? Waiting for a signing? I haven’t heard anything since his firing.
They promoted his assistant Chad Morton. Word has it they might have lost Morton as he was being talked about being a rising commodity in the coaching ranks.
Jeremy Cutrer, safety from Middle Tennessee. Anybody know this kid? Was wondering about his game.
He’s a CB with good length who’s had to overcome a lot to get where he is. Definitely seems like he fits into that Bruce Irvin mold at least character wise.
http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2016/07/01/homelessness-hunger-and-hurricane-katrina-mtsus-jeremy-cutrer-continues-to-overcome/
He’s a great prospect with a very “Seahawky” backstory. Suffered from malnutrition in HS, where he basically taught his body how to get by without eating during hard times. So his biggest problem right now is that he needs to put on weight. He is working out at Exos since early January, so that bodes well for him. Didn’t get a combine invite though. 🙁
Put up some great tape vs Alabama in 2015 (available on YouTube) that show his aggressiveness and instincts even against superior competition. He posted some more film on his Twitter feed too on Feb 6, though it was shot with a phone from the stands, at least you can get an idea of how he follows guys well in coverage and is aggressive in run support:
https://twitter.com/cutrer15?lang=en
Good notes, ‘Mode.
If you’re looking for a midround alternative to Zach Cunningham, check out Jordan Evans from Oklahoma.
He’s a former 3 star hometown kid. Great length and athleticism at 6’3, 233.
Has some traits and potential
Nice. Will take a look.
I like Jimmie Gilbert too as a late round alternative.
I like Jimmie Gilbert as well. I really like a lot of those Colorado defenders.
I have been watching a lot of tape on Cunningham. To me he is not a 1st rounder, not in this class. Misses way too many tackles while taking bad angles in run and pass coverage. Too often he doe’s not rally to the ball.
It’s because he tries to go around blockers instead of through.
Coahable trait.
I don’t have a first round grade on Cunningham right now either, but let’s not pretend he’s useless or anything
Where did I use the word useless????
Your pick of the DB lot!
https://twitter.com/marlon_humphrey/status/827332440481992704
King and Humphrey look ripped
Humphries is a unique athlete for a CB for sure. Could probably easily bulk up a little more and be an in box Safety if he wanted.
Based on that picture I don’t think King is going to have any issue with the 32″ arm length cutoff. That kid look lean and ready to run and jump out of the bldg at the combine.
When someone tries to change your mind about a prospect but their points are easily countered and it reinforces your opinion xD
Was wondering if anyone knew whether Steven Taylor at Houston and DJ Calhoun at Arizona State are leaving college this year. Both very dynamic linebackers. Calhoun hits like a bus. Also any thoughts on Division II TE Adam Shaheen? Looks to be a talent. Heard his name being mentioned recently.
I think Taylor is trash tbh.
Calhoun is a good nod, but I think he’s returning.
Shaheen is a sleeper and Taylor is not trash…