Jerry Jones, Stephen Jones and Jason Garrett debate in Dallas’ war room during the 2016 draft
Jerry Jones wishes he’d given the Seahawks an early third rounder.
In a fantastic piece by Peter King today, Dallas’ desperation to draft Paxton Lynch is revealed for the first time. They viewed him as the twelfth best player in the draft and were determined to make him Tony Romo’s heir.
The Seahawks traded the #26 pick to Denver in return for the #31 and #94 picks. Dallas were offering their second round selection (#34) and a fourth rounder (#101).
That wasn’t going to work.
In order to get Lynch they needed to deal their third rounder (#67). They chose not to.
“If I had to do it all over again? I’d give the three.”
— Jerry Jones
That’s how close the Seahawks were to securing an early third rounder. There’s every chance they would’ve been able to still select Germain Ifedi at #34.
We’ll never know who they would’ve taken at #67 but the following players were still available:
— Jonathan Bullard
— Bronson Kaufusi
— Kenyan Drake
— Shon Coleman
— Le’Raven Clark
— Braxton Miller
— Kyler Fackrell
King details the negotiations between Seattle and Dallas:
Between 9:25 and 9:45, Stephen Jones had three conversations with Seattle. Jones started with a simple swap offer: Seattle would send the 26th pick to Dallas, with Dallas returning a two and four. Next call: Stephen Jones, apparently sensing interest, tried to move it along, offering to add Dallas’ sixth-round pick if Seattle would give back its lower of two seventh-round picks.
Now 9:54. Schneider back on the phone. The call was quick. Stephen Jones got off the phone, turned to Jerry Jones at the board, and as one eyewitness recalled son said to father: “No way with Seattle. Too much. They want our two and three.”
Quiet in the room. “Thoughts?” Stephen Jones said to his father. “Any thoughts?”
They had a minute, maybe, to up the offer to Seattle, which was the only fish on the line. But no new offer was forthcoming. It was a minute later, maybe two, that Denver consummated the deal with Seattle for the ability to pick Lynch. The Denver deal was clearly better. Dallas was offering picks 34 and 101 for the 26th overall pick. Denver was offering picks 31 and 94—and by staying in the first round with its pick, Seattle got to control the player it picked for a fifth year, as opposed to four-year control for a second-round pick. Denver’s offer was superior. Dallas could have trumped Denver only one way—by offering its third, the 67th overall choice.
That was it. If Lynch turned into a star instead of wearing one, it would bug Jones for years to come.
According to King, Jones slept for just three hours on Thursday night and was wide awake by 6am. Seemingly, he was filled with regret:
“When I got up this morning,” Jones said Friday afternoon, “I second-guessed the hell out of myself for not giving the three. I have always paid a premium for a premium. So many times my bargains have let me down.”
It’d be fascinating to know what the Seahawks would’ve done had they acquired the #67 pick. It’s possible, of course, they would’ve drafted the same three players in round three anyway (Prosise, Vennett, Odhiambo). They noted at the end of day three, for example, that they didn’t expect Vennett to last as long as he did.
It also could’ve provided a scenario nobody could’ve even dreamed about before the draft began. Securing Germain Ifedi, Jarran Reed and potentially one of Jonathan Bullard, Bronson Kaufusi or Shon Coleman? That would’ve been really something.
Thoughts on Nick Vannett
I didn’t spend much time at all looking at Vannett pre-draft because I wrongly predicted the Seahawks wouldn’t select a tight end early. That was a major mistake on my behalf.
We often talk about how the Seahawks look for unique or rare traits. Funnily enough that’s kind of what Vannett provides. There are barely any blocking tight ends in college football. He is a rare gem, a collectors item. Someone who was asked to be, in the purest sense, a blocking TE.
I watched three games yesterday including Vannett vs Notre Dame where he really stood out. He blocks well on the move and squared up. He pulls inside and can deliver the key block to spring an inside run. On one snap against Notre Dame he drove Sheldon Day six yards off the LOS. He cut blocks well. I don’t recall a single poorly executed block.
This play in particular stood out. Look how he moves inside, locates and executes the key block that opens the hole for a big touchdown:
@stephstaton pic.twitter.com/8ZJALJcx3Q
— Rob Staton (@robstaton) May 2, 2016
This isn’t an easy play for Vannett. He’s pulling to the right, hitting the hole and has to key in on the linebacker who is off-center. Make no mistake — he made this play happen. Ezekiel Elliott finishes — but it’s created by Vannett.
With Thomas Rawls’ burst and ability to break off big chunk gains, Vannett could provide tremendous value here.
Across the three games he proved to be an extremely willing and effective blocker. I think desire is a big thing here. At a time when the whole NFL is looking for the next Gronk or Jimmy Graham, Vannett’s college role could’ve seriously impacted his pro-prospects. In many ways it did — he lasted until the late third and never had a chance to show what he can do as a receiver. Yet he’s out there, doing the job asked of him. He earned this shot.
It’s impossible to judge him as a target for the Seahawks — but that’s unlikely to be his role. With Graham returning and Luke Willson a superior athlete — he might not be asked to do much route running at least initially. He will keep a defense honest though and allow them to be more creative with Graham — using him perhaps as more of a mismatch and receiver instead of an in-line blocker.
On the handful of routes he did run in the three games I saw, he lacked snap especially on the shorter stuff to the sideline or inside. On more than one occasion he seemed to be just going through the motions. He doesn’t exactly fire down the seam and create much of a challenge for the linebackers. He might be most useful in the red zone where his size, length and enormous wingspan can be effective.
Per Zach Whitman, Vannett has the third longest wingspan in the last three drafts at tight end.
Zach Miller’s Seahawks career was a bit underwhelming in terms of receptions considering what he achieved in Oakland. Vannett is likely to have a similar role. A key blocker vs the run and pass — the occasional target but much more effective in the red zone.
It’s not a flashy pick — but it’s typical of the way Seattle approached this draft. Tough, physical, re-establishing their identity in the post-Marshawn era. Vannett might not make any headlines as a rookie — but his impact could be vital.
Thoughts on Alex Collins
We spent most of the 2015 college season talking about Alex Collins. On May 6th last year we named him on our early 2016 watch list and on February 16th we mocked him to Seattle in round two. Everything about his running style screamed Seahawks — physical, hits the hole with a nice burst, doesn’t run out of bounds, finishes runs, pushes the pile and doesn’t go down on contact.
This remind you of anyone?
@TheMikeSalk so John, about Alex Collins… pic.twitter.com/3fzQmpdipi
— Rob Staton (@robstaton) May 2, 2016
His combine performance, however, was a major turn off. He ran a 4.59 and managed only 28.5 inches in the vertical jump. He just looked sluggish and went from a possible second or third round target to off our radar completely.
It’s nice to see the Seahawks didn’t feel the same way — because Collins has the potential to be a fantastic value pick. There wasn’t a single Arkansas game I watched where he didn’t have an impact. He first stood out against Texas A&M in 2014 and I wish, with hindsight, I hadn’t been so swayed by his combine.
The competition at running back in camp is going to be intense. Don’t be shocked if Alex Collins emerges as the legit #2 option behind Thomas Rawls. Christine Michael is going to have a fight on his hands.
Drafting for the Cleveland Browns
The Browns are going through yet another big rebuild. Another new front office setup, another new Head Coach. Another shot at trying to make the franchise relevant.
The latest plan involved trading down from #2 to #8 and then down to #15. They acquired a cluster of picks in the middle rounds and in 2017. They stuck to an analytical approach that seemed to include drafting anyone who put up big stat numbers (Corey Coleman, Emmanuel Ogbah, Carl Nassib).
Unfortunately they didn’t really come out with anything that looked like a coherent plan. Building a team is surely more than simply acquiring production? What is their identity?
I went through the draft and considered what I think would’ve been a better plan for the Browns.
First and foremost — they’re in the AFC North. They need physicality on defense. That needs to be the identity, secured with a productive running game. I looked at the players available with each of their picks and took an alternative view:
#15 KEANU NEAL
#32 MYLES JACK
#65 JONATHAN BULLARD
#76 SHON COLEMAN
#93 JOSHUA PERRY
#122 WILLIE HENRY
#138 CHRISTIAN WESTERMAN
#154 ALEX COLLINS
#172 KENNY LAWLER
#173 TYVIS POWELL
The only pick that remains the same is Shon Coleman at #76.
Maybe the Browns will be proven right over time? They needed a wide out and Corey Coleman is a playmaker. Hue Jackson is a good enough QB coach to make Cody Kessler an interesting project.
Yet they had a chance to begin building a defense with toughness, athleticism, physicality and grit. Neal at safety, Jack paired with Perry at linebacker with Bullard and Henry anchoring at DE.
Reinforce the O-line with Coleman and Westerman.
This is a rebuild after all — not an attempt to win the Super Bowl in 2016. Put down the foundations for defense and look to next year on offense.
If you missed our review of Joey Hunt (C, TCU) check it out here. Later today Kenny and I will be recording our final podcast of the draft season.
Great write-up, Rob. Thanks for the thoughts.
*FYI: 2x typos of “Vennett” right before the “Thoughts on Vannett” header.
Great piece Rob. This blog is hands down the cream of the crop of all things Seahawky!
I’ve noticed more than a few hand wringing comments about which OL personel would most
effectively deal with the Aaron Donald’s and Kawaan Short’s of the football world. Based on the focus of this draft it would seem that rather than try to find the rare unicorn of an offensive lineman who can consistently handle these players in pass protection they would prefer to simply run the ball down their throats.
If Dallas really did have Lynch that high up on their board (I don’t deny it, I think his upside is greater than both Goff and Wentz), then yes that was a HUGE error on their parts not offering more. I’m glad Lynch is out of the NFC.
Trading to Denver was also a ‘twofer’. That may also have prevented Kap going to the Broncos, which may have given SF more draft ammo this/next year. How much that played into any trade decisions… I don’t know.
Most of the scuttlebutt around Kaep to Denver indicated that the price Denver was willing to pay was their 3rd rd pick. We intercepted the pick and sent a potential high end QB to the AFC. That’s how you kick ass.
Good article. Interesting to see the behind the scenes dealings between the teams.
The draft REALLY went in a different direction than everybody expected. Out of all the mock drafts we saw, nobody selected Collins, Hunt, Lawler, or any of those guys outside of Ifedi. At this point we should be predicting their unpredictability!
I like the choices they made on the whole, still absorbing a lot of the ideas. At the time, I was shocked that they took 3 running backs. Now it makes a bit more sense. As far as the O-line goes, they took some guys that seem like projects, which according to PCJS, is necessary with the poor quality of college offensive lineman. But seeing some seemingly solid guys like Nick Martin, Shon Coleman, Christian Westerman, Joe Dahl get picked was a bit of a bummer, but I’m no expert and I guess we’ll see how everything pans out. Exciting times!
There are more than a few PA bootleg highlights to Vannett in his videos. That was Miller’s bread and butter play here. Considering his blocking ability, that play will be money here because defenders will be on their toes assuming he will be in there to block.
Miller had a couple TDs in the 2012 and 2013 seasons simply because defenses assumed he was in to block and left him completely uncovered in or near the end zone (happened twice versus Jaguars in 2013). Can’t wait to see Vannett out there in the Miller role.
I think the hope is that Vannett will become our starting tight end and JG will be more of a glorified wide receiver.
I would have loved to have been back in Dallas to hear the sports radio hoopla over their draft. Stubborn Jerry. That extra 3rd rounder would have been fun but I’m ecstatic about Seattle’s haul, UDFA and all.
Kenny Lawler is going to win a spot, no question about it.
Oh, the guys on the ticket have been ripping them apart all morning. It’s awesome.
That’s all I needed to hear, I know exactly what it sounds like. Their relationship with Jerry is one of a kind. I almost miss listening to it, almost.
Regarding Vennett: Could it be that the Seahawks are planning to alter the offens to one that employs an H-Back for run-blocking rather than a traditional Fullback? With Vennett, this would give the team an added dimension (screen/wheel/option passes to the H-Back) that isn’t currently available. With Vennett they would increase receiving options out of the backfield without giving up much in blocking ability. A 2016 Chris Cooley.
I’ve always felt that they should maybe not completely phase out the FB position, but just reduce that role.
Play more 2-TE and 3-WR formations.
Great shout
Awesome write up Rob. I think your call about Lynch ending up being the best Q in this draft could very well be true. He has to be pumped to be going to Denver. Kubiaks system seems tailor made for his skill set.
I am so glad the Hawks took Vannett as I have been saying throughout the draft season he is the best blocking TE in college football. I noticed him when watching tape in Elliott and have been enamored with him as a Zach Miller clone ever since. Then when watching the Senior Bowl drills I was so impressed with his hands. He made some great contested catches and his wing span is obvious when he goes up to get the ball.
Really love this draft and the UDFAs. This camp is going to be ultra competitive and the best yet under PC / JS I think.
They really targeted the Senior Bowl top performers, this year, huh?
They always do. Every year.
P-Rich and Norwood in 2014, Lockett and Ali Marpet (rumored interest) last year.
This year? Reed and Vannett.
Lot of good that knowledge did us.
Ifedi was a Junior that went to the Senior Bowl.
Rob what on your thoughts on Tyvis Powell. I was surprised he did not get drafted. I know he is not a big hitter at Safety but seemed real smart with great ball skills. I like his chances to make the squad as a backup and special teamer. What am I missing on this guy? Did his lack of physicality cause him to not get picked?
Liked him. Thought he’d go in rounds 3-4.
I wonder if defining an identity, or drafting in line with it, is a more valid consideration for teams like the Seahawks who are at or near a Super Bowl level, than it is for a talent-starved team like Cleveland. When PC/JS first came to Seattle they had a similarly deficient roster, and they churned the hell out of it in order to just find talent. Even if some of the talent they found (or acquired) didn’t stick around in the long term, it helped jump-start the transformation of the franchise. I think that’s what the goal is in Cleveland: to find quality players, and let the identity flow from there.
Frankly, I appreciate that for the first time in forever, they didn’t try to fix their roster in one draft. Taking a longer-term view in a win-now league can sometimes provide tremendous opportunity: the pick that became Earl Thomas is a perfect example.
Its too early for Cleveland to worry about identity. Just get talent at any position.
I think that’s a little short sighted. With the salary cap era, I think a Super Bowl capable team could be built in 3 years. It’s definitely true that Cleveland needs talent on all levels. However, I think the coach has an identity or philosophy, and players need to match that system. In the competitive AFCN, they’re building for a 6-10 team.
Identity is vital.
The main part of the Seahawks success is they knew who they wanted to be when Carroll arrived and made the necessary acquisitions to build around that identity.
If you don’t do this just end up with a collection of individuals.
I agree with Rob, here. Understanding who they are and the kind of players they want helps the front office scout and acquire players that complement the rest of the roster and what the coaching staff is trying to do.
“When PC/JS first came to Seattle they had a similarly deficient roster, and they churned the hell out of it in order to just find talent.”
Hmmm… I think it’s more a case of they knew what they wanted to be and tried extremely hard to find people who fit into their way of doing things. Not just about cobbling together some talent.
The approach also speaks to the competitive commitment of Paul Allen. The churning costs money that the low budget teams avoid.
Few questions for anybody out there. Prosise can play ST. Brooks looks like he can/maybe even be the gunner at that speed? What about Collins and Lawler? I’m guessing no. Vannett, of course, is obvious.
Brooks seems like he was drafted for the purpose of ST. He had a Travis Feeney-esque combine performance.
Reall wasn’t a fan of much anything Brooks brings to the table
I’m not sure how he makes the team to be honest. He’s a much inferior running back to the other 4 we have on the team right now.I actually tried to track down his arm length, because I had a small thought that Carroll would try to convert him to CB. Hahaaaa
Exactly! Did he even play teams at Clemson? Anyone?
It looks like he could be a contributor somewhere to me
http://www.independentmail.com/sports/college/clemson/Brooks-garnering-attention-from-NFL-after-impressive-pro-day-372034012.html?d=mobile#
Really scratching my head. He’s gritty. Pissed he was depth at Clemson.
Interesting read. What could have been for him if not for the unfortunate foot injury that destroyed and kept him out of his 2014 season. Maybe he is a high draft pick if he had been the starter the last few years. We’ll never know, but I can see why the Seahawks used a low round pick on him now.
Not sure how you can be that upset about a 7th rounder. And yes he did play teams at Clemson. He reportedly ran a 4.32 at his pro-day and he also played WR. I think there is plenty to like there for a 7th rounder, even if he doesn’t end up making the team.
Last year, besides Sokoli who they used a roster spot on for developmental purposes, who made the team as a late round draft pick.
It is truly amazing that fans are so plugged in as to get upset about the 7th rounder or think they wasted draft capital. Under the previous GM, the ‘Hawks were drafting deep snappers or “the best FB” in the draft with those picks. The fact that people now view them as vitally relevant shows how well PC/JS have performed to drive up expectations. I think they picked a guy there that has a shot to contribute, most teams are hopeful their 7th rounder is worthy of the practice squad.
Brooks is the only pick I really don’t get? Given that he was a 7th rounder it is no big deal particularly given the guys we got as UDFA s
A bit of a head-scratcher, but he’s starting to make a lot of sense.
He can line up at WR, was the no. 1 recruit at receiver from the state of Arkansas, like Odhiambo he had some unfortunate turn of events.
Great teammate, and the most important thing? He made the most of his opportunities and seized his moments.
Last year, we saw what happened. Seattle’s 3 backs all went down. They turned to Da’Juan Harris? That will never happen again, and they basically ensured that.
I hate to use him again, but again, like Odhiambo, Brooks just seems like a magnetic persoinality. They’ve both battled to get where they are and overcame adversity.
These 2 guys have things about them like the other 8 draft picks that become contagious in a good way.
Sometimes you just fall in love with a prospect so much, your willung to roll the dice on him/them because they’re deserving.
“Last year, we saw what happened. Seattle’s 3 backs all went down. They turned to Da’Juan Harris? That will never happen again, and they basically ensured that.”
My thoughts exactly. The RB stable is chock full of talent now. Explosive bruisers in Rawls, CM, Collins and versatile 3rd down backs in Prosise and Brooks. That competition is going to be a battle!
Seems like SEA were highly interested in Brooks for a while leading up to the draft, and he was one of their “must have” picks, even if it was late on Day 3.
The Collins pick seems more like a situation where they didn’t expect him to be available in R5, and they just couldn’t pass up the opportunity to take a R2 talent that late in the draft
Nailed it CHawk.
Seriously, the highlight reel of Collins is damned impressive. He may not have blazing type speed, but looks incredibly shifty and quick for a guy his size and looks like he has great field vision.
Comparing Collins to Rawls – not a whole lotta difference in their Combine performances:
Rawls – 4.65/2.76/1.69 40yd, 9-08 BJ, 15 BP
Collins – 4.59/2.70/1.62 40yd, 9-05 BJ, 18 BP
I know Collins’ Combine vertical was pretty bad, but he managed 32.5″ at his pro day – the only test he did at his pro day.
I love Rawls. Got a jersey for Christmas. But he is going to have to earn his spot too. This guy is going to be fighting him for reps. And C-Mike would too, if he does indeed have being a pro figured out.
The best explanation I have heard is that they didn’t feel they could get him to come here as an UDFA given the picks spent on 2 other running back so they took him with their 7th, knowing other guys on their list would be available as an UDFA (LB, S, C etc). He’s obviously a big time athlete.
Having said that, it didn’t stop Tre Madden from signing here so who knows … ?
Maddon probably grew up a USC fan already loving Pete Carroll. I also think that Brooks may have been more in demand with that forty he ran.
He’s a project of JS and a few others.
I think he piques their curiosity at Clemson’s pro day and then at the VMAC they more than likely fell in love with his underrated skillset and character.
It may have a personal slant. Brooks’ dad is going through some lung problem and may need a transplant. Drafting him gives him some guaranteed cash to help out his family that he wouldn’t otherwise get being a undrafted FA. Seattle’s often shown a willingness to help players they like out — Garret Scott, Jessie Williams.
Proud to be s Seahawks fan, great team in more ways than one.
Ok… I guess I’ll take a stab at The Carroll Code.
Clue I; Eddie Murphy on Carson.
Many people felt Germain Ifedi didn’t belong in the first round. Seattle didn’t feel the same. If-Eddie Murphy is an easy one. Murphy also talks about Black Secret Service for a Black President. “You’re crowding Mr. Wilson, Chandler Jones.”
The real challenge is finding another prospect clue hidden in there.
Buckwheat? Cereal?
The truth is out there.
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Clue II; Bill Burr’s bit about owning a dog
Rose Bowl is the key here. Christian French won the Rose Bowl two years ago. Kenny Lawler played every home game there. Both have a rabid mentality on the field. Both are phenomenal udfa pickups and possible contributors with red chip potential.
I also like a CJ Prosise tip here with Bill Burr’s notorious Irish heritage.
A possible triple-clue here from Carroll? You be the judge.
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Clue III; The late, great Rodney Dangerfield on Carson
Tough Buck. Nick Vannett. That describes the most prolific TE to emerge from OSU in this decade. Imagine that. And Seattle reportedly told Jake Stoneburner they were going to draft him if he was available late.
May also refer to Tyvis Powell. But he is more well represented by the general statement posited by Easy Money being the clip. 30% of early entrants went undrafted. There was plenty of easy money this year.
Why the elaborate games? What does Carroll have planned for us?
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Clue IV; Dave Chapelle talking meeting Kanye on Jimmy Fallon
This may get a little abstract… Bear with me, here. Kanye represents Kenya, Rees Odhiambo’s homeland. This is further strengthened by the fact that this is from after Dave Chapelle’s personal journey to Africa.
Does Carroll’s Code hold indications of deeper connections throughout global scouting?
Carroll Code Historians say “Yes”.
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Clue V; Brian Reagan, Pop-Tarts
We had previously tabbed Beau Sandland and Joe Dahl with this hint. Neither came to fruition, but the interest may certainly have been there.
I have the feeling this does represent a draftee he has chosen, but his baffling gigantic mind has me confounded.
I declined to contact Carroll in regards to this piece.
Is there really a secret piece to the Code hidden in the energetic antics of Reagan’s fast paced hit stand up special?
According to Carroll Code Historians; the answer is “Yes”
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Clue VI; La Grange, Zz Top
I am going to go out on a limb and say this clue is meant for Joey Hunt. He’s a stiff upper lip type from Texas that went to school in Texas. Plus that mane is spectacular.
Did Zz Top write this song for a young Joey Hunt in the hopes he would be the ultimate draft gem?
Carroll Code Historians believe they did.
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Clue VII; P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing), Michael Jackson
30% of early entrant prospects went undrafted. Signing udfa’s and getting Young sounds like a Pretty good Thing.
=========================================================
We may never know the true meaning behind Carroll’s clues. This elaborate web of clips and pop culture references has baffled fans and experts alike since it’s inception.
Carroll’s Code Historians have unlocked a fragment of a sliver of a single jig of this dramatic puzzle that will captivate audiences for the remainder of it’s existence.
Or the trade-up for Jarran Reed threw us out of whack for the rest of our picks and Carroll’s Code took a year off
Here’s a clue:
All this clue business is tiresome and played-out! LOL
And also not really even fun anymore. You can’t just post two songs during the draft and call them clues.
LOL, ikr?
No one says you have to participate. I prefer a head coach that engages the fans in the process so keep the clues coming.
Fair enough, there does seem to be a number of people on this blog who are enjoying it.
Pete’s just trolling the fans for his own entertainment.
Lawler played at Cal. Their home games are at Memorial Stadium, about 4 miles away from me, not the Rose Bowl in Pasadena.
U rite.
How about Collins with Bill Burr’s hurt foot comment
Seahawks got ahead of the ‘run’ on RBs in 2017, what is predicted to be an exceptional class.
I’m sure that wasn’t their consideration, but in addition to the need and value they receive this year, next year we get to snag other positions in the draft while other teams are fighting for the RBs
True. But if a great RB falls to us next year in the 1st round, I’d still be down with picking him. We’re a running team so can never have enough good RBs! But I am really happy with our RB depth this year now.
Genius! And while everyone is chasing RBs next year, we’ll be drafting valuable talent that falls in the Draft!
Sorry, sdcoug. My comment was redundant redundant.
That would be a smart long term strategy, but I think its just the way the board fell. The guys with the most talent when they picked happened to be RBs, but it will benefit them in the long run if they can keep them on the roster.
Like I said, it probably wasn’t a consideration. But adding RBs THIS year fills a need, and unplanned or not, serves the benefit of likely eliminating the need for next year’s draft when others are going to be actively looking at RBs
In hindsight it’s easy to understand the Vennett pick. We’re a run first team, we need a blocking TE. Vennett is the best one in college football. Ohio is a great running team with the best RB. Should have paid attention to all the intangibles that made this so. He’s a perfect fit for us.
There was many on this site screaming for a TE for months. During the season even. You we’re correct.
In listening to Pete and John, they believe he is the best inline tight end in years. I am totally engrossed in the Mariners now, but I wish training camp was already starting.
Our running game is gonna be unstoppable, especially in the 4th quarter when it matters most. We lost a lot of games early last year in the 4th quarter because we could not grind for the chains. By improving our running game with a great blocking TE, we also significantly improve our play action game vs defenses who have their hands full trying to slow down our running game. Genius!
Blocking TEs match this teams basic offensive philosophy, especially if they also have a high ceiling. They’d probably look to bring one in next year too, if not close to every year.
Just wanted to say that I was right,, Again…
We didn’t worry about trying to replace Bruce Irvin,, not at all.
And we didn’t pick a CB….
I think they decided to not select a line backer just so that they could attract undrafted free agents. They have done this in the past.
One more thing, I absolutely loved seeing that Collins highlight reel. I understand this type of reels are pretty meaningless, but he does have a bit of beast in him. I especially liked it after watching the man honest to goodness irish line dancing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ-QUm6TuYw
apologies if linking to youtube is not allowed.
Right,, I knew they would take this route and not waste a pick on LB, while most people were thinking LBs in 2nd and 3rd rounds…. As for CBs, I knew they liked our current CB group. It was time for them to take a next step, no need to waste a pick there either… 🙂
I’m so happy we, got 3 Oline and 2 D-Line. If the interior of our O-line and D-line improve significantly, we’ll win 13-14 games this season, on our way to SB.
Biggest concern with him (and Prosise, although him being new to RB gives him a bit more leeway) is fumbles. Sherman Smith has his work cut out because this kid put the ball on the ground alot.
JS confirmed this AM to Salk that Ryan Robinson was running first team pre-injury. He’s in the mix there again with Mike Morgan as well.
Actually they found a very intriguing hybrid OLB/edge in Montese Overton. Go watch his film.
I have high hopes that he not only makes the team, but becomes a surprise at Bruce Irvin’s position.
Wow! Schnieder was just on Brock and Salk and said Bryant is going to play some FB! Awesome
Awesome. Probably keeps Tupou off the roster
Well he better be playing some 3-Tech as well. Long as he gets to play as an interior rusher, I’m down with him playing FB.
Agreed.
6 Olinemen and Vannett blocking as Brandin Bryant carries or lead blocks for RB in short yardage and goal line is smashmouth!!!
I expect he will be a backup at DT, while playing some FB and probably on special teams (assuming the knee holds up). That flexibility will earn him a roster spot, even if he is still developing technique-wise.
He might give Hill a run for his money on passing down snaps.
RB Alex Collins runs like a grown a** man. More along the lines of a Marshawn Lynch than even Thomas Rawls IMO.
That’s the thing about all Seattle’s picks this year as Rob pointed out. Tough, physical, conpetitive, size, and men not boys.
Collins might have the best tape of any RB. Getting him in the 5th was highway robbery.
As someone already posted. While the rest of the league battles each other to draft the 5 RBs or so in the 1st next year, it sets Seattle up brilliantly to select one of the many premier pass rushers or EDGE prospects.
I don’t think drafting these backs says anything about Rawls health. They needed to re-establish the run after losing the backbone and the guy this team was built around in Lynch.
It’s interesting that Seattle took backs this year that have ball security issues. But, if ya think about it, that’s easy to fix.
Collins is just a hard charging, elusive, productive back that has the best feet of any back in the draft.
Love how he just showed up to play every Saturday, put Arkansas on his back and carried that team, all the while becoming one of only 3 RBs to rush for over 1,000 yards his first 3 years in the SEC.
Might be one of the most impressive statlines I’ve ever seen.
Rawls, Collins , and Prosise is one of the best, young, exciting RB cores in the entire league.
Agree on Collins footspeed. Almost as good as Lynch. Makes insane cuts. Prosise is strong in this regard too. CJP really doesn’t go down, either. May lend itself to ball security troubles. Would like to see those fumbles, gonna dig them up.
Since when in sdcoug (who posted about the run on RBs next year) just “someone”?? 😉 I kid, I kid.
is*
Collins is the kind of selection that makes taking an RB at 4 overall appear foolish.
I’m feeling very good about the draft and the udfa that we picked up. Happy to say that on my 20+ Seahawky players I had Ifedi, Rees and CJ on my list.
I’m hoping Boykin can take over for TJack, mostly because it saves us a bit of money, and as much as I like TJack, I don’t think he’d be suitable to win multiple games.
Interesting that this was a total offense draft – saving money with young guys so you can keep the defense together. But some really good d players signed as udfa – should be a fun camp!
Lawler and CJ should help in the passing game with some more options. I still wonder if PRich will be able to stay healthy enough to make the team – having Lawler is a nice hedge on that – even if he doesn’t have PRich’s speed.
Lawler is another one with insane footspeed and the ability to beat press. Gives us a great bit of info on their WR prototype.
Looking back on it, it’s one reason they pass on big WRs, and one reason Devon Cajuste went undrafted.
You gotta win at the LOS.
Good point. Need to start looking at tools and upside vs. projection and potential.
Cajuste just didn’t have the production. Even in a run-centric offense like Stanford, he accounted for very little of their pass offense.
Very similar to Kris Durham.
SEA took Lawler because he had 30% of Cal’s passing TDs in 2015, even though he had only 15% of their total receptions. That’s serious red zone efficiency.
If he can add some strength, he could be a Boldin-type WR for SEA.
Glad to see someone else thinking of Boldin when they see Lawler. In looking at this strengths and weaknesses he seems to project very nicely as a slot WR. Less worry about beating a jam at the line, able to use his insane catch radius to grab balls over the middle. YAC won’t matter as much if he’s running routes past the sticks
plus a legit thread in the end zone. Imagine an 4 receiver set of Doug, Lockett, Lawler, and Jimmy. We’d be attacking them with options at speed, size, route running and catch radius. Seems hard to beat
I like him as an X. He has no problem beating press.
Great redline ball winner. I like him outside.
Love the huge hands. Some of the catches on his reel are ridiculous.
I’d like to give some thoughts on the drafts by the other NFC power teams:
Arizona – They wanted to address the pass rush and addressed it with their two earliest picks. They added “star power” with Jones and Nkemdiche, but in terms of toughness I think they regressed.
Chandler Jones is a soft player. He disappeared in the 2nd half of seasons and especially during New England’s biggest games. His synthetic marijuana issue right before the playoffs is a big red flag. Bill Belichek did not hesitate to remove him and another problem guy Dominique Easley from the program.
Nkemdiche seems similar to Jones. He’s a big time talent but he had motivational issues in college. He hasn’t come close to living up to his potential. Arizona is taking on a big risk here, but for a team close to a Superbowl it makes some sense.
The rest of their draft was meh. Evan Boehm was a need pick at center, but I’m not a big fan of his.
Carolina – Butler was a good pick, but he is at a position of their greatest strength. They reached on a bunch of CB’s after losing Norman. Overall they appear to be the same team as last year, minus an all-pro CB and plus a big playmaking WR. Remaining “stale” isn’t an ideal thing in the NFL.
Green Bay – Solid draft, much like the Seahawks. Unsure about Kenny Clark in round 1. They will be a solid team as usual.
Minnesota – Treadwell should help their lackluster offense. Mackensie Alexander I’m not a huge fan of, he has major problems tracking the ball. I think they are going to regret not having any picks in rounds 3 and 4.
I could see Chicago ready to compete in that division, they had another great draft. The Saints had a good draft too, Rankins and Bell will help that awful defense and the offense should still be a powerhouse. Two sleeper teams to watch.
Look out for the Giants and Cowboys. I wouldn’t be shocked if either of those 2 teams went to the NFC Champ. game.
Dallas still does not have a championship defense and they did nothing to help it in the draft, Smith notwithstanding.
I’m not a fan of Nkemdiche, and I don’t expect him to have a big career. But I have to admit he went to the best program possible for his situation. Arians is top notch coach, a player’s coach, who has the ability to get the most out of his personnel.
JAX and OAK both had nice drafts. Some people scratch their heads at the Conner Cook pick, but he has the arm and experience to be a really good back up to Carr. His leadership issues aren’t a concern in that situation. Joseph instantly upgrades their defensive backfield, Ward and Calhoun are nice additions to Edwards, Jr. at DE, and Washington is a great COP/3rd down back who compliments Murray well.
JAX added two defensive prospects with tremendous upside. Ramsey and Jack on a defense that added Malik Jackson and gets Fowler, Jr. back? Not to mention Ngakoue, Day and Holmes. Watch out!
No excuses for Gus Bradley this year. I think they need to make the playoffs or his seat needs to be burning hot.
I hate to criticize Gus, but I totally agree. Shad Khan has been more than patient enough, and I wouldn’t blame him if he fired that whole staff if they have poor results yet again.
Connecting the dots behind Seattle’s draft:
Here’s my attempt at connecting the dots as to what the original plan for the first four rounds might have looked like before trading up opportunistically for Jarran Reed. This is based on everything said in the press conferences and interviews, some deduction, and some outright (but calculated) guesswork.
R1-31 Germain Ifedi
He was always the primary target, hopefully after a carefully calculated trade down to collect another pick later on if the opportunity arose, and was very close to a must-have guy given the need at RT this year. JS shared what Troy Kema, a guy who had worked at A&M told him some eight months ago: “You can ask me about all these guys at Kansas and you can ask me about all the guys at Texas A&M, and I’m just going to tell you one thing—if you don’t draft Germain Ifedi, you have no idea what you’re doing.” They had been scouting him for the past two years since there was a chance he might have come out last year too.
They had such a high grade on Jarran Reed (JS- “best run stopper in the draft) that they must have been surprised to see him still in play for them still in the first round. That’s why he came into the discussion for that pick alongside Ifedi, as JS later revealed. They eventually stuck to their plan though and went with Ifedi. One could also factor in as well that the 5th year option is much better to have for an OT than a DT, even if that DT might have been graded a bit higher.
R2-49 Jarran Reed
JS on phone call: “We just traded up to come get your bada**, ok?” As he hands the phone to PC: “He’s crying…”
This is where it gets interesting. If they had such a high grade (R1) on Jarran Reed and had picked up the extra 3rd rounder already, why in the world would they wait as long as they did (i.e. until it only cost a 4th rounder) to move up and get him? Rees Odhiambo would very likely have still been available in R4, so it wasn’t for fear of losing him. The only reason that makes sense to me is that they didn’t want to miss out on…
R3-94 Nick Vannett
Although JS later played it cool (my interpretation) in his Day 2 Interview and said, “We felt that was the appropriate time to be able to take him”, earlier at the Day 2 Press Conference, Carroll (usually the more upfront and quick to respond of the two) said, “We were really surprised that we had the shot at him and fired up that we got the best blocking TE in the draft this year.”
So it seems quite possible, as Rob mentions, that the original plan was to take Vannett in R2. So trading up for Reed was not only a decision between giving up a R3 or R4 pick, which would be a no-brainer if you are getting R1 talent in return, but also potentially losing out on the only true blocking TE to come along in years. I think that is why they waited so long before making the deal, and only when they could hold on to the R3 pick and still move up for Reed did they finally pull the trigger. And boy did it work out for them in the end since they got Vannett too in R3!
R3-90 CJ Prosise
Almost certainly he was always the pick at one of the R3 spots. But why pick him before Vannett then if they hadn’t expected Vannett to fall that far? Probably because they knew that the three teams before their next pick were set at TE (Patriots-Gronk, Cards-Fells, Browns-Barnidge) and wouldn’t be interested in Vannett but Prosise quite possibly.
Interesting tidbit PC told Prosise on the phone, “Just want you to make sure you’re nice and humble as you do this, grateful to be part of it, ok? When you talk to the media and all that stuff.” Hope that’s just a friendly reminder not to get caught up in the spotlight and not a reason to worry about a potential attitude problem…
R3-97 Rees Odhiambo
This is the surprise pick for most of us this early in the draft. I’m going to say the original plan with our two R3 picks was Prosise and someone else. JS admitted near the end of the Day 3 interview that there were “what we call ‘upsets’ : there’s guys that we’re getting ready to take that get taken, you know, and we just try to help each other through that process.” This, together with having lost Bruce Irvin and how Rob showed us what the Hawks would like about him at OLB, could mean Kyler Fackrell (maybe KeiVarae Russell or Kenyan Drake as other options) were the other original targets. He went just two picks before ours at #88 to GB.
In that same interview, he also revealed that “we almost traded out” [of R3]. That probably points to pick 94, since comp. pick 97 couldn’t be traded. So they knew they could get Odhiambo in R4-R5, but since their next pick wasn’t until the very end of R5, they went ahead and secured him in R3. I personally loved that decision. It left our last need on OL nailed down so we could just enjoy day 3 not worrying about need as much as taking advantage of any opportunities that came our way (like Quinton Jefferson).
Although they didn’t say the words outright, you can tell by this decision and by how they raved about him in the press conference that Odhiambo was a true must-have for them. JS said he and Ifedi were the strongest guys Cable put his hands on. Gosh, PC even asked him on the phone call if he was in Seattle and told him he would swing by that very night on his way home from the VMAC. How often does that happen?
Conclusions to take with us going forward:
1. The key word for the Hawks in the early rounds is “rare”. You use that draft capital to get unique players that offer skill-sets you will simply have a very hard time finding anywhere else. They even said the word “rare” at one point or another about almost all of them, I think:
– Ifedi: rare size and length to be available that late in R1.
– Reed: “unique” was the word they used. JS- “Jarran for us was so unique that we had to [move up]”
– Prosise: PC- “very, very unique player” to have an RB build with that speed and who can run the full route tree and catch. “Very special role we want to put him in.” JS- “The fact that he took off [as RB in his first year at the position] like he has is rare.”
– Vannett: JS- “been looking for years. They don’t come along very often.” PC- “so rare to get an inline player”.
2. They will take advantage of guys who don’t test well and fall due to injury (throw in Kendall Fuller as another original R3 target…?). They also really like guys who are “settled down” (married, graduated, accomplished, etc.) “Smart, tough, reliable” was a catchphrase shared by Co-Director of Player Personnel Trent Kirchner in an interview.
3. Co-Director of Player Personnel Scott Fitterer said they had about 180 players on the board this year and JS said they had 26 first-round grades. Quite convenient when you are picking at #26, I’d say!
4. Last year they had three guys they “couldn’t leave the draft without”. This year there were two lower-round guys we know they probably considered in this way: Odhiambo, as mentioned above; and Joey Hunt. JS joked in the Day 3 Press Conference that after Cable and director of college scouting Matt Berry spent time with him, “I don’t know if Pete and I would have been able to leave the building if we didn’t come away with Joey.” PC added, “Had to get that done.” (This was discussed in Rob’s last article, but I think he has a really good chance to start for us at C this year.)
5. PC’s draft clues usually just key in on one word, phrase, or name in the clue, not on multiple intricate and far-out connections that us fans come up with. But since there are so many possibilities, it’s basically impossible. Our only chance is to narrow down the guys we know should interest the Seahawks and start from there. Well, we had better get started for next year! 🙂
Well thought-out post Sea Mode. A draft is such a fluid monster, but I imagine you’re close
Really good write-up and great quotes. Interesting food for thought. What have you heard from Cable on Hunt?
I think you’re right about Fackrell. Feels like a big miss for them. I bet they wanted him bad in rd 3.
I think that where they moved up to get Reed was probably the soonest anyone would trade with them. The defensive picks were flying off the board and maybe they were also waiting for Robinson to go off the board and then make the move as they took Reed like 2 picks after the A’shawn Robinson pick and that would be a good barometer for value by waiting for A’shawn because Reed would surely follow him very soon of the board. Very sneaky
NICE write-up Sea Mode!
Well thought out
I’d love to know what the upsets were, shame they don’t wish/can’t share
I thought Fracknell as well but am shocked they didn’t trade up a few spots to jump ahead of Min, a in and GB who all needed and hadn’t taken an LB. maybe could have been ust a 7th, I’d’ve given up Zac for Frack. Further that Dallas pick might’ve changed things too. So if he was the target then why not??
Besides wondering about the upsets, it is amazing that besides Reed (who they didn’t expect to take) there were no defensive picks. So surprising given PCs predilection to defense. Makes one wonder if they missed on a OLB replacement or even at CB? Alternatively is the a different plan in place either via the current roster, free agency, trade or vet cuts?
…jump ahead of MIN, CLE, & GB..
Of course we do not know where in the process, which round, of the draft that the “upsets” occurred, as references byJohn Schneider. We can safely eliminate the 2nd and 5th rounds when we traded up. To assume it occurred before the 3rd round trio is simply speculation. I think it possible that Ifedi might not have been drafted in the first if, for instance, Vernon Butler were available and had not just been taken by Carolina. Or, as Kiper speculated, the Seahawks wanted Garnett, who also was drafted shortly before the Seahawks first pick, by SF, who traded up to get him, maybe knowing something we do not.
They traded up for Quinton Jefferson.
I think it has more to do with the way the board fell. We saw upgrades at RB2 RB3 and RB 4. Moreso than at say CB and LB (weaker classes imho)
This is an excellent Hot Take.
…fail.
The post was supposed to look like this…
After watching our OL get rag-dolled most of the season I am glad they are emphasizing strength with the OL reboot this season.
“I didn’t spend much time at all looking at Vannett pre-draft because I wrongly predicted the Seahawks wouldn’t select a tight end early. That was a major mistake on my behalf.”
That’s one of the many reasons I like this blog, Rob. Humility is a great mark of someone willing to grow and learn to be the best.
Cheers.
Yup, here here rob!
Agree. I love that Rob is willing to admit mistakes.
I also can’t believe I missed it. There was a post on Field Gulls last week showing a depth chart, and–looking at it–you could see that they only real holes we had were OL, QB2, DT, and RB2. However, for *next* year, we need to have back-up plans in place at TE and Bennett’s spot. Just like F.Clark last year is a pick to replace Bennett, I feel like Vennett is the TE for the future when Luke Willson leaves this year.
That was part of my argument a month ago. 1) we don’t know when or what Jimmy will be this year. 2) Vannett gives us that in-line blocking element we’ve missed and 3) Next year Willson is a FA and Graham is still a $9M TE coming off injury
Clark was a hedge for Irvin, I would say.
Apparently Marsh is the favorite at Sam. Clark is a Leo.
What about KPL? Dude is so fast and agile, you’d think he’d be penciled in for heavy snaps, especially in situations where he would cover a RB or TE.
He’s a Will I think. If he’s reliable I slide KJ over
Probably, yup.
So Brandin Bryant is the new Tukuafu and Tre Madden is the new Derrick Coleman.
I think 4-5 UDFAs make the cut this year. How knows? Could be more with all this talent, but I’m looking at it like this.
Bryant or Madden. Maybe keep Madden as the PS RB/FB.
DeAndre Elliott or Tyvis Powell.
Steve Longa, Christian French, David Perkins, or Montese Overton.
Trevone Boykin.
And George Fant or Tanner McEvoy as that project to stah on the PS.
Madden at FB? JS say that on Brock and Salk?
Maddens size and physicality during CFB…… that is my read on him
Yes
I like all the RB we picked up including Tre Madden. I would say dump Cristine Michael but still wondering how many rb we would keep on the active roster. Just finished watching some highlights of everyone and they all seem to have different characteristics and skill sets. Already excited for the season and new energy players like Jarren Reed bring.
Good thoughts, Vol. Among your competitions, here is how I would like it to break:
-Keep Bryant; Madden to PS. Not sure Madden is unusual enough of a prospect to warrant a 53-man contract sight-unseen from another team. Bryant would also offer some defensive potential as well (Madden better on special teams though).
-Keep Bryant; redshirt Elliott on practice squad. If what Rob said is true and you need some time to learn the system, I would rather have Powell’s special teams value and ability to backup multiple safety positions on the roster.
-No idea among the linebackers. The advantage of Longa over Coyle is more years of team control available, but frankly, Coyle’s experience might be tipping point. I am rooting for David Perkins on the edge (though Overton is no slouch) as he looks fairly explosive; we could use some of that. Not high on French, but as an ex-Duck, I wish him the best.
-Boykin is the most likely, but I refuse to sleep on Vernon Adams. If there was ever a quarterback that “tilted the field” in college, it’s Adams. Oregon-TCU bowl game is case in point.
-I would love to keep both these guys on the PS, but that might just be wishful thinking.
Great thoughts, Vol.
I’m pretty sure Bryant told the media that 3 teams were asking his availability to play FB (like Jarran Reed played FB in redzone situation for small sample size). They wanted him primarily for defense, but were asking about his roster versatility. He said he’d play anywhere. I think Seahawks go FB-less in the final 53.
Marshawn Lynch Farewell tour>>>>>>>> Kobe Bryant farewell tour
Speaking just for myself, I do not care about either.
Hahaha fair enough.
And I care little for the M’s perpetual rebuild lol
Though I like Di Poto and think he’ll be good for you/us
Now that the draft is over, will they do anything more in free agency? What is the cap situation?
I dont see why they would be eager too. You got rookie training camp next week. Im sure theyd fancy seeing what they have there first
I think Seattle believed in the rumour that the Browns were interested in Ifedi. I think he was the 1st, Reed the 2nd and Butler the 3rd in their board for 26. Yeah, the depth at early 3rd was amazing.
My understanding is that Mary Kay Cabot, the well-regarded Browns beat reporter, confirmed that the Browns planned to take Ifedi at the top of R2, and when the Seahawks grabbed him instead, they went with Ogbah, and then came back in the next round to take Shon Coleman for the RT spot.
This is why I am glad that Jerry Jones did not pony up his R3 pick, giving the trade for Paxton Lynch to Denver. John might not have taken the deal anyway, if he was as committed to Germain as he says, even though the R3 pick from the Cowboys was higher.
Instead of Germain Ifedi and Jarran Reed, with a Cowboys trade our draft would likely have been Reed and Le’Raven Clark or Shon Coleman instead, with the same guys in R3, Prosise and Vannett, either way. I am far happier with Germain and Jarran than those other options.
>He first stood out against Texas A&M in 2014 and I wish, with hindsight, I hadn’t been so swayed by his combine.
I wouldn’t be negative with yourself, I believe Collins is another guy that the Hawks drafted that was injured or hampered by something (was he the one with a migraine and hurt toe or something?) and so his testing numbers were poor.
Like with a bunch of players if they were 100% healthy when testing and you saw their numbers I bet you would have thought “Seahawky”. Seems to be a trend this draft class that the Hawks went after guys who are coming off a injury or didn’t test well due to a injury but when healthy are classic Seahawk testers.
It’s probably good that the Hawks didn’t just draft guys with the best SPARQ scores this year. Too many teams are copying the Seahawks. Maybe this will make other teams unconcerned with SPARQ for awhile.
I had a huge soft spot for Miller. It seems back in the day you couldn’t really bring him up without “apologizing” for his lack of receiving production, but the guy was a stud. Whatever we needed most, he did. Run blocking? Check. Settling down our past blocking? Check. Making clutch catches over the middle? Check. Making clutch catches in the EZ? Check.
Not to be obnoxious, but he did everything. I felt like Willson was maybe being groomed for the role but his hands are worse and his blocking is less consistent
Feels like Vannett is in response to Willson (and maybe Jimmy) in the same way that Ifedi is in response to Britt. Not necessarily a ‘mea culpa’, especially in the case of Willson who has carved out a niche, but something that says, “let’s take another swing at this”
It’s funny. When we signed Clem and Browner I made the joke that this was the 2012/2013 reunion tour. Sort of feels that way even more after this draft. Miller by way of Vannett? Another crack at the Harvin experiment with a pair of WR/RB hybrids? Lots to love here if you enjoyed that season
And Quinton Jefferson and Brandin Bryant fill in for the Clinton McDonald 3-tech role. As Rob has often pointed out, trying to recapture those handful of interior pressure sacks that were lost because of McDonald leaving and Hill injuries.
I loved reading this blog several times a day leading up to the draft. On draft day, I knew that if the jets did not take Paxton Lynch then Seattle was trading back to someone who wanted Paxton Lynch.. As soon as they announced the pick of Darron Lee I was wondering who we were going to deal with (Cleveland, Dallas or Denver…or a surprise) and what we were going to get. All of that enjoyment was one of the many benefits of the information from Rob and the many thoughtful posters here.
That extra 3rd became Vannett. Pure Schneider genius.
Rawls, Prosise, Michael, and Collins going to be a hell battle for RB reps. Donr be surprised if we keep all 4. I believe they will. Prosise will get KRPR and Wr opportunities. Think of a sane Harvin. Slightly bigger and barely a lil slower, but more durable.
Hope CMike plays well enough to make the team, I really like the new and improved Michael. Hope he keeps it up.
C Mike is in trouble….. big trouble. Collins and C. J. Prosise are making the roster
I would agree, but maybe with all the multidimensional players who will be on the roster, that will allow more room to keep an extra RB. You never know. All those new guys and CMike will have to actually produce and show that they are worth a spot on the 53. Nothing is guaranteed.
I actually think Brooks will beat out Michael for the last spot.
2 Hammers
2 Speed Guys
Looks like Cash Marsh is the front-runner for the SAM spot.
JS said Mike Morgan will be in competition with him.
And yes Odhiambo at over 6’4 and 315 lbs has the size for LG. It’s where they’ve slotted him.
BTW, CHAWK great to have ya back man. I missed ya these past few weeks or so. Everything all good brother? Busy with the fam?
Damn. I keep doin’ that.
Rob, could you fix that name?
I think i prefer it.
Wow so Clark is a pure LEO, huh?
I think this will end up being Marsh’s best position. He sets the edge in the run game extremely well and won’t even be on the field in nickel packages.
Thanks V12 (or should I say “Looking back on it…”). I got really busy at work for a minute there. Busy and sick at the same time. Man was I sick 🙁
The timing couldn’t have been worse from a draft perspective. But I did my best to check in here as much as I could even if I didn’t have time to comment.
So glad they got my man Prosise AND Collins. As you put it earlier, that’s “one of the best, young, exciting RB cores in the entire league.”
Just like Rob I totally missed them even thinking TE in this draft. But the more I look at Vannett, the more I see a 6th OLer for them on running plays.
Between him and Prosise, I can’t wait to see how they use these new players.
So we will have a slow, weak guy setting the edge against the run to replace Irvin. Great.
Leicester City won the Premier League. Just watched Chelsea and Tottenham draw 2-2. Unbelievable.
It was a shameful display by Tottenham. They were thugs in the second half instead of playing football. Congratulations to Leceister City. 2000-1 odds before the season began and first top flight title in it’s 132 year history.
I accidentally hit a 2 instead of 5. It was 5000-1 odds. Incredible.
Which side was Rob rooting for?
Tottenham was in second place. They needed to win out and have help with other teams beating Leicester. Since they drew with Chelsea today, Tottenham cannot catch Leicester.
Leicester had captured the imagination of England, including Rob. I do not like to speak for Rob, but I think he was rooting for Chelsea today.
YNWA
Man, piss poor championship organization. To allow such important game to be played on monday. By this time the Leicester fans should be allowed to be partying naked on the streets. But no. Monday. Day job tomorrow.
There is going to be a lot of people calling in sick tomorrow in Leicester. The game was scheduled a long time ago. I do not think many businesses are going to complain with missing workers. I think most owners are partying as well.
Such a cool story. This is why we follow sports. Congrats to the foxes
It really is such a cool story. They were in the English League Championship division only two years ago (a division lower than than the Premier League). Last season, they spent most of the season in the relegation zone (bottom three teams). This year they are the Champions. That is just incredible, unbelievable, wonderful,……
Listening to Kenny and Rob at the moment BUt before they came on I figured I’d try to see what I could find out about Quinton Jefferson. So looked up MD’s schedule anf put on the Michigan game.By the third Michigan series you can see we got a player.
https://youtu.be/1iIMg5ODpFQ
Where do we see our receivers sticking this season?
Is Doug a Y or a Slot guy.
Can Jermaine Kearse stick at X? Will he be overshadowed by more exciting options in Prich and Lockett?
Does Prich see any valuable time at WR? Where do they like him?
Is Lockett a slot guy or does he play Z with Baldwin in the slot?
Will Lawler beat out Smith/Williams for a spot?
Great questions. Some of the answers are all of the above.
ADB can play Y or slot equally well.
PRich will get his opportunity to become the deep threat they hoped we would be. Can he stay healthy? I think so, considering how much time he’s had to rehab and get stronger. Speaking of healthy, I thought it was interesting that SEA took a couple of prospects with injury histories this year, but then I remember one of JS or PC talking up their medical staff and how they have supreme confidence in those guys to keep players active.
It’ll be tough for Lawler to beat Smith and Williams for the final WR spot because he’s not a ST candidate like they are. Then again, Prosise is a ST demon who should be able to contribute significantly in that regard. In that sense, I like Lawler’s chances because, frankly, I thought he made Goff look better than he is.
Wholeheartedly agree on Lawler. He’s a Bawller.
Yeah I thought they’d maybe take one guy that fell far, but 3 major selections were for guys with injury history. That was shocking for a team that said they wanted to get healthier. Yeah, I keep bringing up that quote. Need to look more into these offseason notes on what PC wants to improvve.
Where do you think Richardson plays?
I think they use PRich and Lockett to stretch the field vertically, while working Baldwin and Kearse underneath/crossing, and Graham in the seam.
With Vannett in the line up, it’ll be interesting to see if they try more 12 personnel and use one TE for pass pro/safety check down, and the other as a dedicated receiver. That’ll be especially interesting if they have Prosise in the backfield on those plays given his catching ability.
The main concern I have about Lawler’s fit is RW’s aversion to throwing in tight coverage. He didn’t really sync up with Graham last season in that way – letting Jimmy go up and fight for a reception with a defender in his pocket. That’s what Lawler does best. Let’s face it, he doesn’t have the athleticism to run himself open. Maybe he can work on his routes and find his space in being precise and selling fakes.
Those last couple of statements you made regarding Lawler, I think they apply to Kearse as well. I’ve been critical of Jermaine because I don’t think he is explosive enough as a route-runner. Doesn’t spring out of his cuts and create separation (like Baldwin and Lockett). Kearse tends to be more of a “glider” in his route running, which is bad because it gives away what route he’s running. He also needs to use more head fakes to separate.
He does play with a lot of heart, though.
I love the sound of guys practicing routes. They always sound like they’re in a lot of pain. “Ah fst ah ah ha ssh ah nrgn shhp”
I think it is time to share my feeling about this draft. It is mainly inspired by Rob’s remark above regarding Collins combine time.
I have expressed some opinions during the past few months regarding some views that were expressed here. Rob’s stated goal of guessing who the Seahawks will pick rather then who’s best for the team rubbed me the wrong way at times. Nobody stopped for a second to ask why would one be different from the other?
I actually needed this draft to go the way it did but couldn’t put my finger on it.
It’s impossible to predict the draft, not for your team and certainly not for the other 32 teams. You can hit on a player here and there but not more then that.
For draftniks like us here, the combine has become a critical measurable tool that feels precise and scientific. We come up with rules and trends based on those numbers and give them a higher value at times compared to what we see on tape. How could we ignore Collins obvious talent because he was one tenth of a second slower the Marshawn’s combine time? The Beast we have known and loved was much slower than the fit kid in the combine.
The draft started with Ifedi, almost an anti climax. He was everything we wanted and needed. Then the draft took a turn.
We drafted Reed next. That is one hell of a player that had no business being there in the 2nd round. He is not a combine god among the DL candidates but we all knew he is steal.
Then came Odhiambo and Vennett, Collins and even Hunt. They all make perfect sense for us. I have been looking at a lot of tapes in the last few days and I get it. They are really good football players and i can see how each could fit what we want to do.
I’m not telling you that they will but i understand why they could. From your remarks you can see it too.
None of those guys (Reed included) are great combine stars. Some are pretty dreadful combine wise. They are football players. Somebody took the time to look for them, understand what they are capable of and pick them for our team. It took a lot of hard work to do it. He didn’t just get it from some clever excel sheet. It is a good lesson for us all.
I’m happy we picked those football players for the way they play the game rather than players defined by seconds or inches. Something just feels right about this whole group. There is a vibe to them that I love having on my team. As a group, they make a statement of who we are and who we want to be.
I will try and remember it next year. I hope all of you will do too.
Nice draft reaction from an emotional standpoint
And I agree, we need to find the coaches picks each year
Not sure if that was a knock on Rob or not. I think Rob hit across the board with names and positions. The two other OL didn’t fully test because of injuries, so who is to know if they fall into the TEF formula.
And once you get past 2nd/3rd round, impossible to project who falls. Talked about 2 OL in the first 3 picks and it was 2 OL in the first 5.
Hats off, Rob. When’s 2017 prospects article coming out?
I hope it’s not a knock on Rob, he provides us a ton of FREE content and an intelligent place to go and discuss our team and the draft. This site is what Rob wants it to be and he wants it to be a place where we can all discuss and try to guess what the Hawks are doing. Respectful suggestions are fine but come on
Last thing I am trying to do is disrespect you or anyone that has our point of view. However, I do find it odd and arrogant the way you wrote this, ” Rob’s stated goal of guessing who the Seahawks will pick rather then who’s best for the team rubbed me the wrong way at times. Nobody stopped for a second to ask why would one be different from the other?”
In my opinion, bar none John Schneider is the best GM in all of football. While you are thinking about next season, he is thinking of next season, the following season and the season after that. At his fingertips, he has access to so much information that the rest of us never know or even think about. I find it arrogant that you believe you know more and could do better than him at constructing the Seahawks.
So, you write that you could not understand how Rob’s goal of guessing who the Seahawks pick rather than who was best for the team rubbed you the wrong way. Huh? Did you think that John Schneider was going to draft someone that was not best for the team? Seriously? Every decision he makes, whether it turns out great or not is in the best interests of the Seahawks. So, it is never different from the other.
As for myself, I trust John and Pete. I get more out of understanding the thinking behind the Seahawks moves than trying to tell them how to do their job. This is actually what Rob does with his blog. This does not mean that Rob cannot have his favorites, nor does it mean that you or anyone else cannot have their favorites.
This may have come out more harsh than I want, but I don’t know any other way to write this. Again, not trying to disrespect you in any way. I just do not agree with your thoughts at all.
He does make some good points. We keyed in on the most insane athletes and all of our excel sheets.
We took Jarran Reed and Joey Hunt. Some of their favorite picks.
We can do better next year.
A big recurring theme in Rob’s podcast is “This is a guy we highlighted before the combine…. Soured on him because of average to bad testing”
We can do better next year.
Do you ever find your chronic predilection for taking gratuitous and ASSUMPTIVE shots at the host here a bit tiresome and simply unbecoming and ungrateful, Eran? Not sure what the point of that is. It’s emotionally driven to be sure. And therefore not to be taken too seriously.
Hmmmm, that is a tough one. I’ll try to break it down.
Do I find my chronic predilection tiresome – I didn’t but your reaction indicates you do.
unbecoming – Well, if its tiresome, it is certainly unbecoming. Point taken.
Ungrateful – NEVER. I have been very very grateful to the admiring work our host does here. I have expressed it more then once here.
FWIW – The point in my comment was not taking a shot at Rob and his amazing work here. I was trying to remind all of us, present company included, that the reasoning and motivation behind the draft picks is way deeper than what we can see on the surface. To remind us all that the confidence we exhibit at the results of our our evaluation should be tempered by this reality.
A big part in embracing this incredible draft class for us is realizing that a slow and unproductive TE, a base run stuffing DT, a slow RB and 2 TEFless OTs could combine into everything we need.
Your name indicates that like me, you have been a long time fan and not some young and impressionable fan. I will not change your opinion and you will not change mine. In the future, save yourself the time to read and react to my comments. Avoiding tiresome idiots is what we old dogs do best right?
There is a big difference between “attacking” the host and honestly stating well-reasoned ideas, some of which may not agree with the consensus, and the host.
EranUngar has written excellent analysis of his own, some of my favorite stuff on FieldGulls. I’m pleased to read the thoughts of both he and Rob.
I need to clarify something:
This was not a knock on Rob. He does the most amazing and incredible job and I admire him greatly.
Try to ignore what you perceive as a knock on someone and understand what this draft class tells you about the team, it’s goals and it’s strategy.
EranUngar, I agree that this draft was instructional in a lot of ways. Rob did a lot of outstanding work, and I think the TEF stuff was genius. I think it does point the way to how the Hawks evaluate athleticism, and the historical pattern seemed to confirm it.
But a lot more goes into the process that anyone on the outside, including zoned in minds like Rob’s, are not privy to.
I was one who felt that the emphasis on SPARQ and measurements had gone too far, with the Hawks as well as those following them. Perhaps in this draft, JSPC and Cable tempered that approach with more classic football prospecting. Film, qualitative things, etc.
Maybe they take everything on more of a case by case basis than we realize.
Rob and the people in this little community do a better job trying to figure it out than anyone else. I think in the future, the defintion of “Seahawky” will become more sophisticated.
Pat Kirwin tweeted that after talking to Carroll, Ifedi is slated at RG while Webb is at RT. No mention of LG. Wonder if Glo is in play for LG?
Odhiambo to compete at LG with Britt. Carroll had said previously they plan to play Ifedi at tackle but that his guard experience was helpful.
Legitimately shocked at hearing his comments. Ifedi projects to a RT / LG in our system, and Glow clearly projects to a RG
It also is like 100% the opposite of everything they’ve said up until that single interview
Not to mention Webb was clearly better playing Guard last year than he was at RT.
He had 2 solid years at RT!
Webb did? He played good at guard with Oakland but has been atrocious at RT. That’s why he’s on his 5th team in 8 years.
Yeah he was one of the best young RT’s when he was with the Bears!
He was a big piece for them, but after switching to Cutlers blindside and conceding a sack, Cutler was seen yelling at him on the sidelines.
He was quickly jettisoned
Take a step back for a second and look at what happened with this team last year, the change in Wilson’s game, the fact that Lynch has retired, the fact they drafted a center that is clearly of a different physical type than what we expected. The addition of Prosise that they have a “very special role” in mind for. Now this.
Add the pieces up and it looks like they are reshaping what they think the line should look like to suit a changing offense.
Agreed. If we do end up with a huge right side of Ifedi/Webb rather than an athletic one with Glow, maybe it signals we will be seeing more power running concepts as opposed to all ZBS all the time.
That is a big counter from everything they have told everyone else. Maybe Pete is having him compete there but doesn’t expect him to win the job?
Here’s a line projection few have offered.
LT Gill
LG Glow
C Lewis
RG Ifedi
RT Webb
-Or-
LT Gill
LG Webb
C Hunt
RG Glow
RT Ifedi
–OR–
LT Gill
LG Britt
C Sokoli
RG Odhi
RT Ifedi
Can’t help but wonder about Britt now. They haven’t exactly hyped his name up this off season, and the only mention that I can remember is a rather public acknowledgement that they drafted Britt because they felt they had few other options
Glow to LG might be some sort of acknowledgement that they have zero plans for Britt, and that at least Glow brings a year of experience under his belt…?
Will be interesting to see where this goes
I would vote for option 2. Either Hunt or Lewis at center.
You would think these would be the option:
LT…Gilliam/Sowell
LG…Webb/Ifedi/Odhi
C…Lewis/Hunt/Sokoli
RG…Glow/Odhi
RT…Webb/Ifedi
Britt…LG/RT backup
Glow is the LG.
Had a hunch they’d flip flop LG and RG this season.
It doesn’t matter where you play Ifedi, because he’s our future RT anyways. Putting him next to Webb is genius. Over 600 and some odd pounds, 2 bad a** dudes that go 6’6 and 6’7 with both of them having at leat 34″ arms.
Ifedi is a reacher not a puncher. How do you fix that? Easy.
You put Ifedi in a doorway and what happens when he reaches instead of punches? Breaks his arms.
The doorway= a phone booth or the offensive guard position.
650 pounds. Both have 36 inch arm length.
Whoowee that’s some rare ish over there
Looks like third and one would go to the right side if that’s the case.
You would rather have an undersized rookie start than the most athletic lineman in the NFL who has had a full calendar year learning under Tom Cable? Man, people need to see Sokoli play a little this year before being so dismissive. It’s like having him work out is a bad thing. He could be a huge impact player this year, he certainly has the athleticism. That should be something people are hopeful about
Hunt might be a career LS.
They spoke similarly highly of the two when they were each drafted.
Man, Lewis comes in every year facing his replacement and somehow sticks around. Good that he’ll be here to take Ifedi under his wing this camp.
Wish we had just one elite OL to show these young guys the way the best pro’s do it. Cable makes up for this as an elite coach, but the idea holds.
Even a Gallery or old vet who has been around. Lewis has been very serviceable at C- not elite or even superb but certainly adequate. The idea of Sokoli coming on strong this year is the one thing I am looking forward too the most. And not just because if I didn’t then my name would be silly
Haha i enjoy the super support of some prospects. Better than the Nick Reed bandwagon or the Benson Mayowa next great leo bull.
I think I’ll start one for Ifedi. Call it the gravy train
We always have Jon Ryan’s Regina Ginger Schooner
Yes I would rather that undersized center start. I really think we are underestimating the importance of experience and communication at the Center position. This guy has done that for years in a zbs. His snap is extremely quick, pass pro is legit, and his ability to turn defenders shoulders in the run game is all that’s needed for a center. Pete mentioned in the presser that Hunt has the ability to come in and ‘captain’ the O-Line. That’s because he’s been doing it for years.
I like Sokolli and I am sure that he has improved over the last year, but in my opinion he is still not a center, he’s a tremendously talented athlete.
That’s what I was thinking. If Webb is a RT on this team, that leaves Glow, Britt, Ifedi and Odhiambo as the primary OG candidates. Of those, Glow and Ifedi seem to be the likely starter candidates. Even Odhiambo seems to have more upside than Britt.
I think they like Ifedi on the right side with Webb from a pure bulk perspective. Remember RW was consistently under the most pressure when he rolled to his right last season. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Vannett lined up next to Webb a majority of the time to help keep RW clean on that side.
It’ll be some combo of Webb/Ifedi on that side.
It also doesn’t mean he can’t beat Webb out.
It makes a ton of sense actually. Ifedi just needs fine tuning. Don’t throw him to the wolves just yet.
My guess? And it’s still to early to say, but…
LT GG
LG Glow/Odhiambo/Britt
C Hunt or Lewis/Soko
RG Ifedi/ Webb
RT Webb/ Ifedi/ Britt
The bench becomes Britt, Odhiambo, Soko (who can also play guard), and Lewis or Hunt
Only dress 7 right? Soko and Odhiambo probably become the inactives. At least early on, but that can change.
How many teams would love to have 2 guys like Odhiambo and Sokoli as inactives?
And we know how common it is, unfortunately, for injuries to occur on the O-line. Ecspecally in the NFCW.
Although, damn, I kep forgetting about Sowell.
The depth just got crazy good on the O-line.
I’m sayin’
But unlike Webb, they could cut Sowell without a bunch of dead money. Guys like that are going to have to fight for their professional lives to stay on this team.
I agree with this. But, you know they will mix and match with Cable and Ruel playing mad scientists moving people around from practice to practice trying to find the best combination.
My guess for starting O-Line in Week 1 is Gilliam-Webb-Lewis-Glowinski-Ifedi
Pete Carroll has said Ifedi is going to start at RG.
LT: Gilliam
LG: Glowinski
C: Lewis/Hunt/Sokoli
RG: Ifedi
RT: Webb
Even if it just me, I am glad that the draft is over and we can start looking forward to TC. I am really excited about seeing Sokoli get some snaps this year at C. Having the most athletic, freakish C in the league could be huge for us. Although it is baffling, and even a little bit disappointing to see so many dismiss the idea of Sokoli at C just because we drafted Hunt. Having Sokoli succeed at C would be a huge boon for our team. And the craziest thing: so many are so easy to assume that Ifedi flaws (and they have been noted quite thoroughly post draft by many sources, so it isn’t just me picking on the guy) are so easily correctable and he will just slide in without a hitch and be ready week 1; but Sokoli has had a year under Tom Cable learning NFL fundamentals and our specific scheme and training but no one seems excited. Most of these rookies are not going to make the team- I know this is the season of post draft euphoria, but most of our vets will beat them out. So I always take a wait and see approach. But the FO has been high on Sokoli getting an opportunity at C this year, and that should be exciting, man. Even Sheil from ESPN overlooks him. Maybe it’s just me- but how can anyone NOT be excited at the prospect of the most athletic lineman in the NFL being the anchor of our revamped OLine
Best case scenario, he runs away with the job, but is it the most likely scenario?
Doubtful. Why draft a pure center in the same round as our hyper athlete?
On Ifedi. Yeah I do think his issues minimal are coachable and he should slide in immediately.
Come on, no one was drafting Sokoli to be a NT and no one takes on conversion projects like we do. That’s glib. I don’t see why that it is an unlikely scenario. I remember during Pete’s end of season presser that he was speaking entirely differently. I disagree that a rookie undersized C coming fresh out of college will be better equipped that a guy with Sokoli’s athleticism who has been in the program for a year. They kept him on the roster for a reason. And if you think that Ifedi’s issues are minimal then I don’t know what to say. He makes it or he doesn’t. But there have been plenty of experts that see how far from a finished product that he is- so I would wager that it would be a similar situation to Sokoli’s. Having an ideal size/length/athlete totally learn from scratch how to play the position. But we will find out during TC like always
If you don’t know what to say why are you regurgitating someone else’s sloppy scouting?
When people support a player with 0 tape. Hunt was a must-have for this FO. If you would take their remarks about Sok at face value, why ignore their high regards for Joey Hunt?
Sokoli is from another country. Ifedi is from the heartland of football.
He was a top recruit at guard in high school. I think he is ready to contribute.
Sorry to come at you all crooked Jar.
I have a soft spot for GI
While I admit, I have a formidable hard time seeing how a career college DL is going to be ready to take over probably the most difficult position on the OL after one year of being on the active roster, but with no playing time, I will say that if Sokoli does make that enormous lead successfully, I would be ridiculously fired up. Personally, I think Joey Hunt was selected because they saw a lot of skill out of a center that they felt would run under the radar enough because of his height. IMO, they probably do want to give Sokoli a chance to see what he can do, but if he is still a long ways away from that kind of transition, Joey Hunt is the safety net they feel comfortable enough, and they have Sokoli continue to compete at guard. JS was fairly glowing about Hunt on 710 comparing him to Robbie Tobeck. My hunch is that the Sokoli center experiment may not last long through OTAs and training camp if it feels to them he’s not ready for that yet. Kind of why I think they have been listing him as a center/guard for a while now on their website.
The other thing to keep in mind is that Hunt was a converted DL to Center in college and had 3 years to hone his craft. The tape shows some decent athleticism there with him, and also shows some pretty sound technique. Outside of the glowing remarks they have given about him in the pressers, this kind of makes me think he might has a legit track to the starting job if he handles things well through camp.
I think people might think that Sokoli would get buried at guard if doesn’t land the center job, but I’m not quite so sure. If they have Ifedi taking over RG, Glow and Obhiambo competing as LG, what does this make Britt? Is he going to compete with two other players they feel good about at LG? Does he compete suddenly at RG? They might move him back to RT and have him compete with/back up Webb, thus paving the way for Sokoli to back up Ifedi.
Honestly…I have seen a ton of comments here regarding the hope, and upside, and promise, and excitement of what Sokoli might be. So I don’t think you’re alone or people are being dismissive.
But reality is, right now people actually have tape of Hunt playing center to view and analyze whereas Sokoli remains a great unknown
That is understandable. But I guess I see the things Pete had to say at his end of season presser and the fact that they kept Soke a healthy scratch to keep him off the waiver wire as a pretty solid endorsement. There are a few excited to see what Soke can do, but not many. Like Pete said himself, the idea of having someone as athletic as Soke should be exiciting
I think we all hope to see it come to fruition, but until we have visual evidence to go by…it’s nothing more than hope and speculation. I’m not being dismissive of your stance, so don’t get me wrong, but when hasn’t Pete Carroll had glowing remarks for his players? Lol. This will be an exciting year of OTAs, training camp and pre-season to see what we have in Soke
I think it’s great that people are stoked and most of us are rooting for Sokoli. But as has been discussed, he’s not a simple conversion. It’s one thing to turn a DT into a guard (a la Sweezy) but the center position is a unique one. It’s not just learning to block and move like and O lineman, but you add calling protections, recognizing defenses and generally being the QB of the line. I think the skepticism people have is that athleticism isn’t enough at center… There’s a scholars aspect to their game that needs to be appreciated. Hence so many people banging the table for Kelly on here (less athletic, super “heady”). Hopefully he picks it up and we run over the rest of the NFL. I think more likely he losses out to Hunt and is back in the competition next year.
I honestly see Hunt as almost a stop-gap addition. Holding Sok’s spot and pushing the Center group.
That’s kind of my thinking Kenny. And then he will be a pretty legit backup after Soke figures it out. Maybe they keep Lewis and stash him on the PS.
I am not so optimistic about Sokoli. A lot of learning still ahead. Hunt knows the position. I think you underestimate him if you think he’s just a stopgap and backup.
Worst case scenario, Soko never figures it out, Hunt is not given the opportunity (or fails it and does become backup only) and another season depends on Lewis’ mediocrity. Or Nowak.
If JSPC and Cable absolutely had to have Hunt, that says something about his potential as a long-term answer.
Well put. The comps JSPC used for Hunt also spoke to their vision for how he might succeed. Recognizing that he is a sixth round pick, Hunt is one of my favorite picks this year because of how out of left field he is. I admire the Hawks’ willingness to try to improve by getting a younger, cheaper, more athletic version of Lewis – with all his warts and strengths.
My thoughts exactly
I think “the most athletic lineman in the NFL” needs some perspective.
To achieve this distinction, all we’re really talking about here are a couple inches on jumping tests and a fractions of a second on running tests. Oh, and a few bench press reps that is more a test of endurance than core strength. That’s it. Just split hairs, really, especially when applied to the center position.
So at center, is it more important to jump a couple inches further and run a fifth of a second faster or to have absolute command of the line calls and the tactical savvy to anticipate and thwart what the defense is doing? If you can combine the two – athleticism and tactical prowess – you have an All-Pro player, maybe a HOFer. But stuck having to choose, I’ll take the above-average tactician with serviceable athleticism over the “elite” athlete with zero tactical experience.
I have really warmed up to the Hunt pick and I hope he wins the job in dominant fashion. If Sok is ever going to see the field as a center, he needs to learn from a player like Hunt.
Well, it’s possible that it’s not that great an advantage to have a super athletic C. That would be my hypothesis, particularly when you look around the league and see that most of the best centers don’t have great broad jumps or vertical jumps or whatever.
I’m not optimistic about Sokoli for the reason Rob talked about in the podcast; he looks like a guy who just wandered in off the street and started playing football.
Rob, it is ok….. not many thought they might take a TE. I was thinking 50/50 they might, but I thought the most viable guys would be gone by the time they could pull the trigger on one in the 3rd round. I thought Vennett would go earlier (as did almost everyone else) but he was the one guy who could block…. and frankly, they need a blocking TE on the roster.
Got Ifedi and Procise to Seattle, not bad for a mock draft since the real draft went bonkers with guys sliding (Reed). And who would have predicted 3 RBs to Seattle.. even though both Procise and Collins were both talked about being fits in Seattle.
Lastly, the UDRFA haul is very impressive, I can see 4 guys possibly making the roster right off the bat….
I thought we’d go with a TE in the 6th! Didn’t recognize the testing of Vannett
Bleacher report says that Pete is going to start Ifedi at RG.
Story by Danny Kelly at field gulls.
Lol I miss FG’s like sports science articles. Showing why Lynch blows through people with basic physics. Thomas Beekers was my fav writer for about a year
Just pointing out the article. Not taking it as Scripture.
No, no I feel it. That’s straight from Carroll.
Maybe they likd how Gilliam and Glowinski worked together and are moving Glow to LG and will keep Ifedi and Webb on the right side. I guess we will find out soon enough.
That’s good point. Plus putting Ifedi and Webb together on one side should generate push on short runs.
Have you seen the episode about Jarran Reed? He is unreeeeal!!!
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=15388279
It has been amusing the hysteria set off at KJR sports radio (ie, Softy) when Pete mentioned this during a Sirius interview today. I know these guys are always searching for something to talk about, but sheeesh, Tom Cable, in his interview Thursday night after they drafted Germain Ifedi, specifically said that they might start him out a guard to get comfortable, and to learn the ropes after the mess of a spread offense (retreat and catch he called it) he played under, but the plan is that he will become the cornerstone RT as soon as he is ready.
I’m not hysterical, but I get it
You spend a 1st on a guy who can contribute day 1. That gets a lot more muddled if his “contribution” is to a different position altogether
Does anyone have any numbers on how many tackles-to-guards go back to tackle? I don’t think I can think of a single one. If anything it’s shown to be a one-way road where failed tackles go
Not doom & gloom but it’s far less exciting (or interesting for that matter) that he’s forced to G to make room for the likes of Webb
Jonathan Ogden started at LG his rookie year. You’re generally right about OT moving to G though. Ifedi has a ways to go cleaning up his technique. Plugging him in at RG isn’t a bad thing. Think it puts him in the best spot to succeed early in his career. It’s not a death sentence to him playing RT in the future.
If he is the best guy they have at RG, then so be it. Webb was pretty good at RT, but a disaster at LT. The combo of Gilliam and Glowinski might just work… maybe they have a natural “feel” to how the other guy works. Perhaps they will flip the OL from a left side (over LG) dominant rushing attack to a more right side (over RG) attack…. by moving the players around accordingly.
As Softy would say “the bottom line…” is to field the best 5 OL they have and mash people.
Germain Ifedi at RG is going to be sick. Personally, I love the idea of him moving inside.
A big recurring theme in Rob’s podcast is “This is a guy we highlighted before the combine…. Soured on him because of average to bad testing”
We can do better next year
I rewatched some of the disastorous nfc divisional game between Carolina and Seattle.
In the game, Britt and Lewis were both awful. Okung was also pretty bad. Surpsingly, Sweezy played the best and Gilliam was okay.
Anyways… Britt cannot pass protect. At all. It is embarrassing. Get him out of the starting line-up ASAP.
Lewis sometimes didn’t look like he knew what he was doing.
I hope Glow is able to beat of Britt at left guard. I would rather Hunt over Lewis at this point. Right now, no idea about what happens with Sokoli. Total wild card.
Someone mentioned earlier that Glow and Gilliam looked good working together. I think Glow might follow Gill over to the left side, and Glow should be able to beat out Poole, Britt and Obhiambo, however I wouldn’t count Obhiambo out of the picture.
Right now I am thinking:
Gary Gilliam – Mark Glowinski – Joey Hunt – Germaine Ifedi – Jmarcus Webb – Nick Vannet
I am pretty sure about lt, rg and rt, however center and left guard are wildcards. Obhi might need a year in the system, but he very well could beat out Glowinski and start at left guard as a rookie.
While Glow might figure to be a favorite at LG, JS said on 710 that their sports science guys felt confident about Obhiambo’s injuries. If he gets healthy and stays healthy through camp, he might have a legit shot at LG. There is the potential, while seemingly somewhat remote, they could be starting three rookies at the interior line positions.
I like that line, I really wish they did this last year but I understand because Okung and Sweezy were still on contracts. Okung was really just the most inconsistent tackle I’ve seen in a long time. He would follow up a couple of good games with a terrible one, then he would look good again for a week and get hurt. Britt is just awful, agreed.I have to think that affected Lewis too, he is probably looking over his shoulder having to clean up Britt’s mess a lot.
So I am optimistic about this draft class. I would like to have ifedi play rt over rg but I’m not an nfl coach. I think he will take over within a year tops though. One nfl season should be good enough to get that monster of a man out their for years to come. But I’m also super pumped about Webb and him on a line together. That’s a nasty combo to roll out for sure.
My biggest gripe with this site is that their isn’t enough articles coming out for me to read!!! ????. Seriously rob, I am so grateful for you and your dedication. I come here at least 5 to 10 times a day and constantly refresh to see the comment section. You have built a truly unique following and seahawk news and draft news site. I love it. Great job this year. Looking forward to more articles coming up. Great job!!!
Leicester City wins premier league! Wow…amazing, historic, fantastic achievement!
Looking more at the draft I’m thinking we will be saying goodbye to kasen Williams, Lawler just seems like a bigger faster version with better hands. I also think the Hawks go without a true fullback instead keeping Brandin Bryant and an RB like tre madden at FB as well for emergencies. I think this training camp will be fun to watch and I’m really hoping we can say goodbye to the likes of Steven Terrell for Tyvis Powell. I want to see the non starter and depth chart only veterans at most positions get replaced by rookies. I’m really hoping Montes Overton pans out at OLB I think he has good potential.
Congrats to Leister City for its dual win, the premier league and the World snooker championship in the matter of minutes. Amazing. I don’t know if Rob was there for the whole snooker marathon, but it was epic.
I’m a little flabbergasted over the hand wringing (not here, but on other sites) on Ifedi playing G and not RT. We’ve talked about this before, but shoring up the interior line might be more important than the tackles. Ifedi + major competition at center (Lewis/Hunt/Sok) + major competition at LG (Glo/Rees) seems like such a huge upgrade over last year that I don’t even care how the tackles play. Russ can deal with edge pressure just fine, and teams play contain more than they rush against Seattle.
In PCJS we trust. I’m not wringing my hands
And yet…
It’s still sort of weird, right?
– It directly contradicts basically everything they after drafting the guy
– It goes against the typical ‘athletic profiles’ they use at LG/RG
– It implies they think Webb is their best option at RT (a worrying proposition)
– It forces one of Glo or Rees to be buried in the depth chart
It’s early May and we’re 3 months away from a preseason game – I’m not going to worry about it yet. But it’s unusual and worth raising an eyebrow at
One way to look at it I guess is this – remember the last several years, whenever we played against a stud pass rushing DT our first thought was always “Welp hopefully Russell doesn’t get killed” or “How many sacks is Aaron Donald going to get, 5 or 6?”. Sheldon Rankins would probably illicit the same response, but guess who owned him in his bowl game last season? German Ifedi.
Rob, a couple of quick points.
1. Loved the recent podcast. I particularly liked hearing about some of the UDFA guys to get a little more background.
2. On your players to watch for next year list, did you forget Carl Lawson? If all we walk away with in next year’s draft is Lawson (at #32) I will consider it a success.
3. I think you misinterpreted Carroll and Schneider’s comment about Joey Hunt. You aren’t the only one, as I’ve heard several of the local radio guys do so as well. They didn’t mean they liked him so much that out of all the prospects he was the one guy they couldn’t leave the draft without, they simply meant that Director of College Scouting Matt Berry and OL Coach Tom Cable liked him so much that John and Pete feared for their safety (a joke, obviously) if they didn’t pick him.
Well, it started out as a “couple” of points, turned into a few…. 😉