Seahawks GM John Schneider spoke to KING-5’s Chris Egan this week (see above) and among the topics discussed, inevitably, was the quarterback position. Schneider again stated that the team are “not going to panic” when it comes to finding a long term solution and related to his experience working with Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay. He wants that type of franchise-defining leader, he’s just not going to force it.
If you’re a Seahawks fan pinning your hopes on this situation being resolved during the 2012 draft, it’s time to start preparing yourself for that not happening. This will be Schneider and Pete Carroll’s third draft with the team and it’s difficult to be too critical of their approach to drafting a quarterback. We can debate the merits of Matt Hasselbeck, Charlie Whitehurst and Tarvaris Jackson all day – but the fact is there hasn’t been a strikingly obvious option for Seattle to select a young replacement. Even with two first round picks in 2010, the Seahawks rightly didn’t spend either on Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen, Colt McCoy or any other quarterback available in that class. People often talk about Andy Dalton last year, but he is still a long way from proving himself in the NFL. Some of the issues that were obvious during the grading process with Dalton were noticeable in the playoff game against Houston and while he enjoyed a credible rookie year and deserves praise for his start in Cincinnati, I still believe the Seahawks were right not to draft him with the #25 pick.
This year Seattle will own either the #11 or #12 overall choice, but again they are faced with limited options. As discussed in this week’s updated mock draft, there’s a realistic chance that Robert Griffin III will be a top-three pick even without a trade. Minnesota coulddraft RGIII, meaning the Seahawks would have to deal with a division rival in St. Louis. That just won’t happen, and people hoping that Griffin will be Seattle’s quarterback of the future better be prepared to be disappointed. I also don’t expect the Seahawks to draft a player like Brock Osweiler or Ryan Tannehill in round one – even though I have a lot of time for Osweiler (and not so much for Tannehill).
Of course there’s always the chance the team will draft a quarterback in round two and that shouldn’t be ruled out. But when Schneider says the team won’t panic, he means it – even in round two. If the Seahawks see better value with a defensive prospect or a running back with that second pick, that’s the direction they will go. We’ve discussed Kirk Cousins on the blog a lot recently and there’s every chance he could leave the board in the second round – that’s the way his stock is going right now. Yet if the Seahawks have a firm round three or four grade on Cousins, it’s unlikely they’ll reach to fill a need – a move that would put undue pressure on Cousins to be ‘the guy’.
Both Schneider and Carroll have been pretty open with the fans in their assessment of the team and plans for the future. Last year the offensive line was highlighted as a target area for improvement, just before the Seahawks drafted James Carpenter and John Moffitt. Carroll has consistently talked up the value he places in the running game – and the offense has been built in exactly that vision. There’s no secret in Seattle’s preference for size in the secondary. In Carroll’s end of season press conference a few weeks ago, improving the pass rush and adding to the front seven was named as priority #1 and you can bet your house that’s exactly what Seattle will attempt to do during the draft. When the Seahawks are preparing to go big on a quarterback, we’ll have a good idea that’s going to be the case – even if it’s not spelt out in as many words.
It’s hard to argue too much with their stance at the moment, because Schneider is 100% correct when he says a bad quarterback pick will set the team back indefinitely and spoil the good work conducted so far in rebuilding this team. However, there will come a time when the position severely holds the Seahawks back (even more so than it did in 2011). That’s when the excuses and talk of patience will fall on deaf ears. For those reasons it wouldn’t surprise me if the Seahawks made some kind of temporary move to upgrade the position during free agency – possibly even via trade. I’m not going to suggest any names but in order to afford themselves time ‘not to panic’, it could be argued they’re going to need a better bridge option than Tarvaris Jackson. Finding a cost-effective upgrade prior to the draft may soften the blow when the Seahawks don’t make an early splash at the position – possibly ignoring it during the first two days.
Regular visitors know my stance on quarterbacks and personally, I think it’s fairly unacceptable that the Seahawks planned so poorly for life after Matt Hasselbeck and missed an opportunity to stay at the forefront of the NFC West. Of course, that wasn’t a mistake made by this current front office. Yet you look at the way the Patriots are stocking quarterbacks and being savvy about their situation – there’s a fairly good chance whenever Tom Brady does retire they’ll at least have a logical plan in place for the future. The Seahawks don’t have that luxury and even players drafted beyond round three will have to deal with a level of anticipation and expectation that a guy like Ryan Mallett or Brian Hoyer doesn’t have to cope with in New England. You only have to look at the way Josh Portis’ one good drive against San Diego’s back-ups in pre-season was received to understand the situation we’re dealing with here. Seahawks fans are desperate for the future at quarterback to be resolved. For that reason, Schneider and Carroll are right to act with some degree of caution.
Even so, the time will come when this front office has to be pro-active rather than reactive – and I’m sure they’d agree with that. I’m a fan of Robert Griffin III, but a deal just may not be possible if you’re attempting to trade into the top three. The team should avoid tokenism to appease a fan-base desperate for some hope beyond the Jackson’s and Whitehurst’s of this world. They should keep building the roster and not rely on one position to define the road to success. But they should also be ready to make the move that will define Pete Carroll’s third gig in the NFL, because it could also define his legacy. Let’s not forget that a player he’s particularly close to, who he recruited and anointed USC’s first ever freshman starter will be part of the 2013 draft class. There will be alternatives too and it may be merely twelve months of further panic-free scouting. After 19 years without a first-round quarterback, what’s a second complete decade between friends?
OK, fine, then I will panic for them. I suppose if I was making millions $ per year as John and Pete, then even if I got fired for not winning due to lack of an elite QB, I wouldn’t be that worried, just retire to Montana and count my money. But since I am just a poor, long-suffering Seahawks fan, winning is the only thing I have to look forward to. One of these 2nd tier QB’s: Tanneyhill, Osweiler, Cousins, Weeden, Foles, Lindley, Wallace, etc, will emerge as a franchise QB. We can only hope that John and Pete can find him before someone else does. Barkley will be the #1 pick next year, and the Seahawks defense is too good to finish 1-15 to pick there. I like James Carpenter, but I think passing on Andy Dalton may be a big mistake. It is time for John to do what he was hired for and find the next Aaron Rogers.
I have often wondered what would have happened if Ruskell had drafted Mark Sanchez in 2009 and let him sit and learn behind Hasselbeck for a full season or two. I have no doubt he would be a much better QB (and professional) than he is right now for the Jets. Not only did Sanchez come into the league without a mentor, he came in with a knuckleheaded coach who anointed him “the Sanchize.” To me, failing to pull the trigger when an opportunity presents itself is no different than pulling the trigger on the wrong guy. Carroll/Schnieder can’t panic. They might need to be creative. They may have to follow the Baltimore Ravens formula of 2000 (or 2001). Excellent defense, strong running game, QB who doesn’t make mistakes.
The Hawks can’t just make a franchise QB appear. There are not too many of them out there. It makes me absolutely ill that the Colts have such a strange way of tanking it when great college QBs are entering the draft – Elway, Manning, and now Luck. Unfortunately, that’s the way things are.
As for next year… “Let’s not forget that a player he’s particularly close to, who he recruited and anointed USC’s first ever freshman starter will be part of the 2013 draft class” sounds ominous. I don’t want to go through another season as concerned with draft position as with the actual games. I just can’t see any way that Seattle drafts high enough to have a shot at Barkley. I don’t even want to consider it. Thinking that we had a legitimate shot at Andrew Luck made it hard to enjoy this season.
On that note about Indianapolis- I believe the fix is in. That’s a whole other conspiracy theory for me but I believe that the organization from the ground up is fishy, Peyton and then Luck? Too coincidental. As for the Seahawks, Rob is right in this article. BUT, buuuuuuuut, it’s the SEAHAWKS who would be wrong to do this again. There are at least three QB prospects with SOLID round 2 grades (No one can convince me the Seahawks are so dim they disagree with most other scouts in this regard), so if one of those QB’s are available at that spot they would be getting an appropriately valued pick at their greatest position of need. How many fans here believe that the Seahawks lost more games due to lack of pass rush as opposed to inexcusable QB play? Yeah, exactly. Now, since there are no true mid first round viable QB’s it only makes sense the Seahawks FO states that pass rush and the front seven are the top priority. There are more realistic first round options there. Although I don’t believe there is actually that much talent or value in those defensive players who will be available, it’s certainly more than QB. As for Seattle waiting for Barkley, as much as I would love Barkley on this team, the Seahakws had better trade away all their first three picks this year and amass 3 firsts and 2 seconds next year because that is what it will cost to get him. I believe when it is all said and done, people will be hyping Matt Barkley more than Andrew Luck. Andrew Luck could be the next Peyton Manning, but Barkley could be the next Tom Brady- I’d rather have Brady… So Barkley to the Hawks is nigh impossible- save for us pulling a Colts and completely throwing the season to nab the QB. I don’t truly believe that this FO HAS one more season of mediocre football- ESPECIALLY at the most important position which should have been addressed immediately anyhow- to wait on QB. Especially if Carpenter and Moffitt don’t end up panning out after their injuries. Remember neither one was a real world beater BEFORE they were hurt… Don’t panic, of course, but don’t be dense and go take a risk. We’re a patient fanbase, and we have our fair share of honks, we’re going to ask for a winner sooner or later.
I think even with Tarvaris starting in 2012, this team could legitimately win 9 or 10 games. The way they played down the final 8 games of the year- 24.9 PPG scored, 17 PPG allowed, 131.2 Rushing yards per game- that is a building block we can use into next year.
Sorry, but I can’t buy into reaching for the next Christian Ponder or Kyle Boller. I’d rather Seattle just trade up and get an elite talent like Matt barkley or RG3. If a Brock Osweiler is there in the 2nd round, or Cousins in the 3rd, ok. Pull the trigger John & Pete.
Most people don’t want to accept the reality of screwing up a high QB pick. Pete and John will be fired, and we’ll back to early 2011 all over again. Let’s improve the pass rush and the front 7, and as TJ says, stick with a formula that works.
If the Alex Smith led 49ers can get 13 wins, there’s no reason we can’t win 9 or 10 this coming year with the same formula.
I think that’s the key point Colin – essentially the front office and the fans want the same thing, but only one group will face the consequences with unemployment by making a mistake here. Being measured is crucial, but they also need to know when to be pro-active. There will come a point when drifting along is unacceptable, they can’t be complacent. But they also can’t force the issue and make an error.
Good read today Rob, pretty much wraps up all of my thoughts exactly.
A few posts ago I listed all of the recent QB’s that went fairly early, including Cam Newton, Dalton, Sanchez, McCoy, Ponder, Clausen, Yates, and so on, and stated that really, only Newton was a real good one. Someone countered that Dalton and Yates experienced some rookie success, and that PC has made statements that a rookie QB CAN be successful in the NFL. But when it came time for a crunch performance, even those two collapsed. Even Cams rookie year was pretty roughh, but that guy has some serious game.
But, Cam and Bradford, Stafford, Mattie Ice type of guys were basically #1 picks. All of the others are not experiencing great results….yet. Not sure that they ever will…
So when PC/JS say they are going to be patient, it’s easy to see why. NFL quality starting QB’s simply do not grow on tree’s, and throwing money and time at the wrong one WILL retard a team’s developement, just as John stated. He needs to have Brains and mad Skillz.
Obviously Tom Brady proves that lightning can strike in later rounds, but the odds of that are low. But the reality of getting a great QB by any means is difficult, and you usually need to have a really lousy team to get one throught the draft, and we just are too good for that to happen.
So the final analysis of getting a QBOTF through the draft will be half luck, and half training behind a guy like Matt H. That is why I’m guessing Jake Locker will eventually be pretty good.
The flip side to the QBOTF game is the Baltimore approach, the game manager philosophy. Getting a pretty good player with above average intelligence. This is done by building a superb team through the draft and FA acquisitions.
This is kind of where the Hawks are suspended, and really, not a bad place to be. Drafting a stud RB, and a stud DL 1 and 2 will further the overall strenGth of the team, creating a favorable atmosphere for a marginal QB to have success. I remember last year one announcer making the statement the the Seahawks were the last team any playoff bound team wanted to face right now as they were playing so well. We are BIG, Strong, and Young and getting two or three more monsters to start on this team will really be a rough game for whoever we play next year. A guy like Coples, or Upshaw with our first pick to creat more QB pressure, and another beast to split time with The Beast behind our highly improved O-line will only enhance life for our “game manager” QB. Then, if we are lucky, a guy like Kirk, or Osweiler, Tannahill just might be able to grow into a decent player.
I really feel sorry for the young QB’s like Luck or RG3 that will be drafted into a mess of a team and thrown into the fire. What a weight on their shoulders, look at what Bradford had to endure for the last two years. A young QB on the Hawks would have the luxury of playing on a team already on the rise, and way past the beginning of a rebuild. That fact alone would surely improve the chances of a marginally skilled player like a McCoy, Clausen, or a Gabbert. I think Blain Gabbert is a perfect example of a guy that could have experienced success in Seattle. If we can get one of the guys we are disecting of late in here in rd3, a year behind TJack to learn, and he steps in next year with a monster team, and we are suddenly a beast of a team.
I like the way Pete is building up the team first. Would you really want a #1 QB to get pounded behind our injured line last year? How many QBs have been ruined by playing behind a poor line for years. Bradford and Stafford are just the latest two. I would rather bring someone in when the team is established.
Even if we had a great QB, they need fast sure handed receivers to throw to. The only healthy receiver with good hands that we have is Doug Baldwin. That is not enough. At some point we will have to get some great receivers. New England and New Orleans both rely on tight ends for catchs. Will our tight ends ever be healthy and hold onto the ball – I don’t know!!!! For every great QB there are two or three great receivers and a complimentary running back. We got the back, but even Marshawn needs a quality backup!
So we are a work in progress. This will be the third draft in a five year rebuild. Maybe we can get an average QB in the third + round. Maybe Portus is our man.
Regarding choosing the QB and having it sink your franchise – that’s only true if you pay a lot in money or draft picks. The bottom 5 teams could stay there for years and draft a top QB every year if they want. With the new rookie salary cap it is a better risk to keep choosing QBs than not. And that is why Minnesota may choose Griffin. In basketball they have a lottery for the bottom picks!
What about trading down in the first and picking up another second round pick? We could pick up someone like Vontaze Burfict to replace Hill late in the first, and with two seconds we could address DE and QB. Pete’s made it clear he needs to add speed and playmaking to the front 7 and it would pretty much fill up our biggest holes in the first couple rounds. That could potentially allow the Hawks to do what they do late in the draft and really do something special. Who knows, maybe we could sign Manning to a 3 year deal and let someone like Cousins develop under him? There are no obvious options, but I’m not overly concerned. With a healthy line, Tarvaris healthy, and our receivers back too, maybe Pete knows something we don’t and Tarvaris has a breakout season next year. I doubt it but I trust the organization which is something that’s been hard to say before the Carroll era. It will definitely be an exciting offseason for the Hawks.
This isn’t the black-and-white argument some think it is. Our options aren’t necessarily limited to “QBOTF” or “a debilitating bust”. Our current QB situation can be improved upon (quite easily, considering T-Jack’s issues) simply by finding a still temporary, but better and still affordable, draft solution. Seattle needs to draft a quarterback in 2012 – period. I don’t even care where anymore.
I’ve got to agree with Brandon Adams. If Carroll and Schneider want to wait around for the perfect QB they will wait forever…we can’t draft that high with the defense and running game that we have. So unless they trade away our first two picks for next years (something they won’t do), and get lucky, there’s no way we will be able to draft Barkley, so mentioning his availability seems pointless…because the Hawks won’t be able to draft him.
This means that they shouldn’t wait around for the Perfect QB to draft, because we won’t ever (barring some crazy stroke of luck that you can’t plan on happening) be in a position to draft a QB like that.
Additionally, it means that they should take a long and hard look at the second tier of quarterbacks because it is from that tier that they will be able to pick from.
Also, they could have a large upgrade at the QB position by drafting from that tier…so why not this draft?
Personally, I believe the big QB issues have stemmed from just how inadequate TJ is. I didn’t mind Hasselbeck in 2010 (save the injuries) but he played extremely well in the playoffs. TJ is a six year vet who struggles scanning the whole field (see fieldgulls Sea v. SF analysis) which is just…a BIG RED FLAG!
No more TJ plz…
I really hope we can do the trade back in the 1st scenario and pick up another 2nd rounder and hopefully get Osweiler if hes there, something about Cousins turning 24 before the season starts worries me and i dont know why.
John,
even in the Redskins game when the Skins had like 8 or 9 players up at the line and he didnt audible out of a play or anythying, he snapped the ball and was sacked in no time.
Tjack can Flourish like Smith did this year, if hes not told to throw as often, i think A. Smith had the fewest Pass attempts in the NFL and the least amount of picks thrown due to their offense, if Tjack can get that consistent run game like we did this last season towards the end, then i think he will do pretty well, he wont throw alot of Td’s but he will be Petes “Point Guard” QB.
David,
I think part of what you say makes sense but there is an important difference between Alex Smith and Tarvaris Jackson…Tarvaris has shown that he CANNOT win a game for you, where Alex Smith CAN. Tarvaris gets sacked too often, or he will do something like the throw the ball out of bounds on 4th down at the end of the game.
So while I don’t really like Alex Smith, and I agree that he and TJack have similarities, I don’t think TJack has got what it takes to be a point guard quarterback like Alex Smith.
Brandon and I agree on the quarterback position, that need’s to be made clear. I wrote this article to review the situation with a degree of detachment. I feel like I’ve made my views enough over the last few years for people to understand my own preferences.
Griffin –
Before this year, Alex Smith was firmly entrenched in the “he CANNOT win a game for you” camp right along with Tarvaris.
Smith’s 4QC/GWD data: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=SmitAl03
TJax’s 4QC/GWD data: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=JackTa00
Of course, the Saints game got rid of the label for Smith, but is he really that much different of a quarterback now than he was six months ago? What about Smith showed that he had this in him that TJax currently lacks?
I suppose one argument you could make Mike is that Alex Smith has had a different offensive coordinator every season in his career, several head coaches and just a completely inconsistent environment. Tarvaris Jackson has had the same offensive coordinator every year of his career, he’s had opportunities at two teams in that environment and he’s not showing any tangible improvement.
The QB position must be addressed. I think the “won’t panic” comment meant “won’t pick a 2nd round prospect at #11.” I think that if they like Osweiler, Tannehill, Cousins, or someone else as a late 1st, early to mid 2nd round prospect, they will maneuver to get them at the spot they value them. To me, panic means make a Ponder-like reach. I don’t know that we should read any more or any less into the comments than that.
I will be surprised if they move down in round one, TJ. It’ll be even more of a surprise if it’s to take a quarterback. Defense is going to be the focus in round one this year unless a guy like Trent Richardson falls. I wouldn’t completely rule out a quarterback being drafted in round two or three, but it’s more likely they’ll take one in the 4-7 range. Next year will be the focus for quarterbacks in the draft, but keep an eye on the trade market during free agency.
If they don’t seriously at least try to move up for Griffin, or even draft a R2-3 guy like Osweiler/Cousins/Tannehill, we’ll look back at this draft and say they made a big mistake in passing it up for yet another year.
You can’t expect a franchise QB to fall into your lap. Every other team wants one too. You’ve got to go get them. And the idea of getting Barkley next year is insane and ridiculous. He’ll be the top pick, so unless the Hawks go 2-14, they have no shot. And a 2-14 team in year 3 of PC/JS would be a disaster. If you have plans to trade up next year, then why not just trade up THIS year? We (hopefully) won’t be in a better draft position next year.
Road. Can. Kick.
Try for Griffin. If not, then a medium-upside guy in R2-3. Otherwise, personally, I’m going to be banging my head on my desk come April.
From a personal P.O.V. – I agree Ryan. I think it’ll be tough to trade for RGIII especially if he does go in the top three as I suspect. They won’t be able to deal with STL. However, Osweiler in round two should be a serious consideration. You can be too cute sometimes.
I forget where I heard it, but Pete Carroll was quoted in the last month or so saying that Jackson didn’t really have to compete for his job last year, but that won’t be true in 2012. You get the impression that PC really wants a group of viable QBs this year. That could mean Seattle drafts an “NFL ready” mid round QB like Weeden or Cousins. Or it could mean they trade for a mid-tier QB on the outs with his current team, maybe someone like Mark Sanchez if the Jets snag Manning. In other words, nothing super exciting, but moves that add depth and push Jackson to elevate his game.
I don’t know if Seattle has any interest in those players or if the Jets would get Manning, but I think Seattle is currently thinking along that kind of logic. I think we’ll get a few more “bandaids” at the QB position this year, and we might see the team make a much more serious run at QB in 2013 with a class that looks to be deeper in the 1st round.
That’s the feeling I get, and honestly, I think its a smart plan if I’m right. This is a bad year to draft QB early, unless RG3 falls to us, which is looking more unlikely by the minute. Seattle badly needs depth at QB too, even if they don’t replace T-Jack at starter. Lets not forget how unbelievably inept Whitehurst looked in the Cleveland game. Mediocre has a lot of value when your immediate backup is terrible. Ideally, you’d like the dropoff from Jackson to not be astronomical, and if Seattle went into next season with the same QB trio as last year, our season would be a disaster the moment T-Jack suffers a serious injury. The team can’t let that happen, so stocking up on “safe” QBs seems like a smart plan to me- because even if those QBs are just backups, they add a lot of value as an insurance policy.
(without trades)
1 (a. Richardson b. Coples c. Upshaw)
2 (a. Perry b. Hightower c. Osweiler)
I probably haven’t seen enough of Osweiler play but for some reason, he doesn’t seem that appealing to me. On one hand he has a ton of raw physical attributes that would greatly help his game at the next level but I feel that he’d need to be in the right situation in order to develop and the Hawks QB situation isn’t ideal. I would much rather draft Cousins or Weeden in the 2nd. Guys who have played pro style offenses and have succeeded at them as well. Maybe I just hate watching him throw WR screens and run the ball over 50% of the time.
A word of caution on Weeden – what he runs is far from a pro-style offense as discussed in this article from a few weeks ago:
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/breaking-down-brandon-weeden-qb-oklahoma-state
A lot of people out there assuming age + production is going to = early success in the NFL. I think out of all the QB’s in this class, he’s one of the least prepared for the next level. And we saw at the Senior Bowl, when taken out of his system at Oklahoma State there were some degree of discomfort. As I broke down in the link above, there are a lot of things he’s going to have to move on from, yet he’s going to be working as a 29-year-old rookie. If he isn’t going to be ready to play until his early 30’s, that has to put teams off.
i just think cousins will go before osweiler, so assuming luck, rgiii, tannehill and cousins are gone, osweiler in the 2nd might make sense.
getting richardson and osweiler or coples/burfict would be great too
Year 3 = No QBOF = Fail. Andy Dalton “may” not be great… but that is true of every pick. Fans are fickle. Great defense only gets you noticed, it does not get you a date to the prom.
Thus sucks.
On a side note: Any 2nd round RB is not worth his salt in comparison to the promise of the future QB. Drafting Martin is like kissing your sister. She may be hot, but no one gives a sh__.
Would it be so wrong to draft a QB in the 2nd round and fail and draft your QBOTF in 2013 and succeed. I live in Charlotte, and can tell you, we are jacked and pumped. We will gladly keep both QB’s, thank you, and go for our first Super Bowl win in 2012.
Draft picks ARE WAY OVERVALUED for the percentage of hits they provide. Stop waiting to be lead… LEAD JS. Stop this caveat BS, and go for it. At least you’ll still have your nuts.
Yeah addressing this problem in 2013 is too late. A QB is NOT the final piece to the puzzle. Seriously it’s like building a classic car from scratch and waiting to put the engine in last. There IS no car without an engine! And who knows what will pan out next year. Are Tyler Wilson, Aaron Murray, Logan from Va Tech really hugely better options than Osweiler or even cousins? What are they waiting for. Because putting T Jack out there every snap while you buff your shiny chrome fenders and snazzy white leather seats is just not going to cut it. There are zero viable options in FA, and I mean ZERO! We would not be married to a second round QB necessarily due to the rookie wage scale, but we would most CERTAINLY be married to a FA QB for years. Any of us think Flynn, Orton, Brian Hoyer or Jason Campbell is coming here for T Jack years/money just to be told- you’re temporary and a rookie will take your job next year? So the FO needs to pull it’s head out. Trust shmust- show me something, show me you’re smart enough to know when you need to make a move
I’m still holding onto the prayers that Miami and Washington fix there QB situation with Manning and Flynn. If the Vikings don’t get a ton of calls (because fewer teams will be looking for RG3) It may make a move to the third pick much easier.
You can quote me on this, Cousins will be a better NFL QB than Osweiler because of the “it” factor. Now, if Osweiler sits behind Rodgers for 3 years, and Cousins goes somewhere and gets sacked every other down like Bradford that may change, but give me Cousins over Osweiler any day. I don’t believe much in the “Huge Potential”. I’ve watch all the film you’ve posted on Osweiler and Cousins, and Cousins just seems better to me. He IS NOT ready to come in and start. He struggles at times with his progressions, but that can be solved in a good system. Further, Cousins isn’t that guy that wants to throw it a billion times a game. He’s a system guy. He’s a team first guy. He’s got “it” however you define it. Cousins played in a pro system which also makes his transition easier. If Cousins and Osweiler are sitting there in round 2, give me Cousins. Again… fan of Cousins, but that comes from watching both of them play, and liking Cousins more.
Hmmm…. I’ve never been impressed with Cousins by any stretch of the imagination. A player who has underachieved in big games, someone who will be defined by the system and continually live within the plays others can make around him, will never be a player who can truly be the most effective weapon at his teams disposal. When I see Cousins I see average. Matt Ryan with less natural ability, Joe Flacco with a smaller arm. This player has no upside and is what you see is what you get. Osweiler has a huge upside as he is raw, he will not need three years, but if you give him one to learn a system and mature as a QB you will automatically have a superior player to Cousins. Cousins could sit for 5 years and never be more than what he is right now. Average. Sure high character is a plus but not measuring stick for gauging success. Cousins is getting the hype now because he was allowed to play in the senior bowl and Osweiler did not have any all star games. But Cousins played consistently in one system with one coach and one coordinator for four years. So he has had grooming and time to grow. If Cousins is selected then it’s status quo and our search for QB is not over. Depending on what the definition of “it” is, I never got that from Cousins. I never once saw a player who rose above the situation and played above the game. Cousins will never be a playmaker and will be relegated to the role of a distributor to playmakers if he ever earns a chance to start for any team. Cousins may be the one selected, but it will be to the detriment of Seattle. Maybe it’s time to start going for a guy who can play competently within the system but can occasionally transcend it once in a while. Cousins doesn’t strike me as that kind of QB
I think with Cousins you get someone who will be ready to go faster, but has less of a ceiling than Osweiler. I see a fair amount of Andy Dalton in him. He can be good, but can he be great?
Osweiler has that Big Ben knack of making big throws in tight spots. He’ll also pull the ball down and run, something Tarvaris won’t do to save his life.
@ Michael (CLT) – I just wanted to post a thank you. Your post was funny and I needed that after realizing the RGIII just won’t happen for the Hawks and Barkley next year is unlikely too. I cannot wait for April just so I can move on from the anticipation. I want a QBOTF in a Hawks uniform.
It would be nice to see Richardson in a Hawks uniform if not RGIII
Minnesota is not interested in RGIII, Rob. Their GM was at the Senior Bowl trying to pimp his 3rd pick for potential buyers. He said they were “very open” to offers. I like that, because it kind of ruined the Rams bargaining position.
I think mostly what I am hoping for, and this may go for a lot of people, is that this FO makes some sort of move to fix the QB position. I would just hate to see them make a huge move to trade up for one. I think seeing them make almost any move for a QB would just give me hope that they are not blind and being stubborn and that they are trying to fix the situation. I would be ok with them taking a shot this year, and if that guy doesn’t pan out taking another shot next year, as long as they keep trying to improve the position. Great QB’s don’t grow on trees and I don’t expect them to hit on every draft pick, but please do something and show me you’re attempting to address this area of need.
I’m led to believe the interest in Griffin is legit, Scott. That’s not to say they’ll definitely draft the guy, but if they can’t move the #3 pick and if St. Louis draft Matt Kalil as I expect, then RGIII is in play.
Michael (CLT) – there have been plenty of 2nd round rbs that were worth their salt in comparison to the possible QBOTF drafted in the same round. Ray Rice, MJD, Matt Forte to name some recent ones. Picking a qb just to pick one actually shows very little balls. The fact that Carolina was terrible again and were lucky to get the #1 when a franchise qb came out doesn’t somehow make them ballsy or make the Claussen pick anything other then crappy.
Rob, you mention that 2013 will be the focus for QB’s. Besides Barkley & Landry Jones, who do you see as potential 1st & 2nd rnd QBs that are better than this year’s crop? Thanks
Hey Vin – I think Landry Jones will struggle to get into the first or second round. Matt Barkley, Tyler Wilson, Logan Thomas and Geno Smith are the four I’ll be looking at closely at the start of the year. I’m not that keen on Tyler Bray but others are and I need to watch more Tennessee tape. He looks very over rated to me on a first impression. I also think EJ Manuel is over rated.
Looking at need driven selections (teams with starter or dev QB need):
1. Indianapolis
4. Cleveland
6. Washington
7. Jacksonville
8. Miami
10. Buffalo
12. Seattle
14. Dallas
16. NYJ
25. Denver
Assuming we don’t get one of the top two, it looks increasingly like the 2nd tier will get taken in the 38,39 and 40th picks. I don’t see 2 of those teams ignoring QB in both round 1 and 2. As it stands, it looks very much like we either take one in round 1 somewhere, or we’re condemned to picking through the third tier of QBs. The second tier will get picked over before our pick at 43/44.
Should Richardson drop to 11, he’s going to have a LOT of trade value for those teams picking in the latter half of round 1. For teams like New England, Denver, Pittsburgh and Detroit — they would be extremely interested in Richardson and would likely pay a high premium for the player above and beyond the value of the #11 pick. Doing so would allow Seattle to add picks (something that has been widely publicized as a strong desire annually by Schneider), while allowing us to preempt those QB hungry teams that like us will just miss out on Luck/RG3.
If Richardson should fall, then Seattle should be looking to trade to the back half of round one with teams willing to overpay for the selection by virtue of the player available. I like Richardson a ton as well. But a split time RB, even that of Trent’s pedigree is not going to impact wins and losses like a starting QB and whatever additional pick/player would result in trade. None of those teams could hope for Trent to fall past Cincy or San Diego who pick at 17 and 18.
I think we’re also forgetting the biggest point…This team has been COMPLETELY overhauled in less than 2 years.
Out with the old, in with the new…And with AMAZING results early. Look at value picks like Sherman, Wright, Chancellor, Baldwin, etc. All of those players are already starting, and some are either Pro Bowlers or well on their way.
I’m ok with stocking the team again, but for me you need to be very aggressive if you think your QBOTF is sitting there. I would ideally have Manning on 2-3 years, and draft Osweiler in the 2nd (trade up a little if necessary?), to sit and learn from the best. Our QB position would go from a giant question mark to a strength immediately. I do think Osweiler could be a Rivers/Roethlisberger type for the next decade if given the Rogers treatment.
It’s blatantly obvious what this team is lacking to get over the hump. Yes, more pass rush should be a priority, but QB is a desperate hole that needs serious improvement. I personally can’t think of another year of Jackson/Portis/Leinart/random 3rd stringer. Good QB play makes us an instant contender.
That is all…Ha.
Rob and Scott – IMHO, if the Vikings can part with #3, you give them this year’s 1st and 2nd (and next year’s 1st)? I’m ok with it if he is our guy. Seems like the perfect QB for this regime (especially given his attitude, and level of leadership).
Hey, look, an elite first-round quarterback won the Super Bowl again.
Amazing, that.
I suspect they could eventually make a deal like that Jerry, it’s just unlikely to be this year.
I agree that if Peyton is able to play, you pay the man and get him in. You don’t loose draft picks, just money (and we need to close our cap gap anyway, and you get one of the best that has ever played to mentor a young kid. I think you would have a crapload of tape to show Peyton that with him at the helm, we would have been a strong playoff team this last year. (hell I think we would have been a strong playoff team with Hass)
Rob, do you think RGIII is a significantly lesser talent than Barkley? Is it me, or does he seem like more of a natural fit with our offense?
I guess the theory is that we need one more full draft for depth and legitimate playmakers at certain position, but I would rather go all in on a franchise QB.
I just don’t see it with Osweiler on the tape… i’m not a pro or even adequate amateur but I just like what i see from Cousins more. I am really intrigued thinking about all of the prospective FA qb’s that will be out there or possible trade bait… J Campbell, Josh Johnson, Orton, Kolb or Palmer if their teams find better options… Not sure which direction JS/PC would go but I could see some merit to any of those and the others i’m not mentioning given the track record thus far (Whitehurst, TJack)… good times…
Rob I honestly think betting on Barkley would be a risky business for the Seahawks. In my eyes, Barkley is primed to have a year that will cement him as an even more amazing prospect that Luck, and it will cost inordinately more for him. Like 3 first rounders to even get the discussion rolling type cost. And that is only if an incredibly QB needy team doesn’t finish dead last and cement him in as their guaranteed number one pick. Wilson, Aaron Murray, nor Logan Thomas jump out at me as being better prospects than what we’d be looking at that this year. Maybe, just MAYBE Keith Price if he comes out could be a possibility but that is a serious long shot. I honestly feel like we agree about what Seattle is planning, but I for one think it’s a huge miscalculation and could spell the undoing of this regime…
And I think that’s what we’re going to see from Hawks fans watching the draft boards from here to April. Half will be wanting Cousins, half will want Osweiler. We may potentially have a legit shot at either one if Seattle is looking to explore the QB option in round 2. Give me Osweiler’s upside any day. And the more I think about it, and with his recent admission that he’ll take an incentive laden contract for less guaranteed money to not cripple a team’s cap, I AM warming to the idea of Peyton Manning playing for Seattle next year
Jerry – I think RGIII has a bigger ceiling, but Barkley has a more rounded game and will go into the NFL more prepared to start. Barkley is going to be a pretty safe quarterback at the next level, while Griffin might end up being slightly erratic sometimes he’ll also make spectacular plays that Barkley isn’t capable of. I think the Seahawks would entertain Griffin, but sometimes making a deal just isn’t possible and I do expect he’ll go in the top three. That’s what the noises are. But I agree, they have to go big at QB eventually.
Jarhead – I actually disagree on Barkley. I like the guy a lot, but I think going back will hurt him in terms of the draft. His stock couldn’t get any higher. Now he’ll probably need to go unbeaten or at least win the PAC-12/Rose Bowl while making even more improvements to his game – but I think he’s maxed out in that sense. Like Leinart, I can see his stock maybe dropping a little here. In pre-season he’ll be my projected #1 pick, but I could see a fall. I expect a fall. But that will also be dependant on other stepping up to the plate. For Barkley to fall, another QB is going to have to overtake him. Can Logan Thomas do it? Or Tyler Wilson? Is there enough defensive talent to force a few QB’s into the pack? And will we hit a situation where ‘most’ teams have invested in a QB within two years and demand has a drop off? A lot of situations here maybe where Barkley doesn’t necessarily go first overall.
I think Keith Price has Kellen Moore-type size, so I don’t expect him to be too much of a pro prospect unless he puts on a lot more muscle in the next few years.
Great final line, Rob.
I have to watch another year of Tarvaris most likely. I hope Pete does practice end game with T-Jack. The practice has to help right? If Pete focuses on the final two minutes and gets Tarvaris thinking faster, he’ll improve right? There is hope of that.
At the very least if we go with Tarvaris, Pete clearly knows T-Jack’s weaknesses and can focus on them in mini-camps and training camp this year. Maybe Tarvaris never has had someone coach him up on end game play. Maybe he can improve if Pete specifically focuses on that area of the game. We shall see.
Paying anyone way more than what TJack will make forces a non-compete factor which is similar to the “Kolb Syndrome” in AZ.. I don’t think they want to explain starting TJack over an expensive back-up.
So Kip’s take makes sense to me and I could see Rob’s view on the Vike’s as a reality.
Rob, If I read your comments correctly, I agree with you 100 percent the Seahawks will most likely use their first two picks of the draft on defense unless they see something happening in the draft that changes their minds. I feel Pete and John have been upfront on their plans (they said offensive last year and drafted two OL) they said defense is a top priority this year so (defense will probably be addressed in a pair.) Meaning the Seahawks only need a QB to enter the next levels of success. If that is the case why wouldn’t they do everything possible in 2013 to select Barkley or another top rated 1st round QB. Going into next year the defense should be more experienced and have more pass rush, the OL has another year of experience and proved they can run the ball against some of the best defenses (Baltimore, Giants). I see the Seahawks using a 3rd or later pick on a QB. In that range looking at team needs their is still a decent possibility all the names we have talked about will still be on the board. Success usually does not come over night and PC and JC have made a commitment (not promise) to make the Seahawks better. We are going into year 3 and thus far I am happy with the change of direction. Yes, we need a QB but I am willing to be patient for the plan and commitment to take final shape.
Rob,
I think Osweiler is great, but on plenty of differetn sites I keep seeing him anywhere between “junior players with rising stocks,” to the “meh…3-4 round pick,”
The question I have to you is in hindsight itseems that the QB scramble last year had a lot to do with the lack of FA and teams needed to address their problems, with no guarantee of FA period.
Do you think that with a real FA this year, that all the hype will come to level itself off and after Luck, Griffin, the rest of the QB’s may just fall further?
And a final thought, which contradicts my question,l if you believe that the cost/risk ratio is jsut right so to speak for teams to try their hand at riskier qb prospects and that more teams may pick QB earlier and earlier just to see what the have, then doesn’t it stand to reason at some point, not necessarily the Seahawks, but at some point some team will break this paradigm that only QB’s picked in round one succeed, simply by taking the college experience further, and truly DEVELOPING their own qb in the mold that they want? I’m not talking about the old “let them sit, for three years and then not play anything like Brett Farve, (see Rodgers, A. and Hasselbeck, M.) I’m talking about actually training the QB and not having them just hold a clipboard and pretend to be the opposite team each week.
Just a thought.
Rob,
What do you think about Seattle taking a flier on Brandon Weeden if he is available in the 3rd or 4th round? If we forget about his age for a moment, I have him as the third best quarterback available. Obviously he doesn’t have as high a ceiling as Osweiler or RG3 due to his age, but I think he can step in and play much like Andy Dalton did this year.
I think if Trent Richardson is there we grab him. The only other prospects i see us getting are Courtney Upshaw, and Devon Still. Other that those three i expect us to move down the board and pick up more picks. And im willing to bet that we dont draft a quarterback in this years draft but pick up a FA such as Brady Quinn, Kyle Orton or Jason Cambell. Only because i believe that Other than Andrew Luck there are no real QB’s that will be the QB that PC/JS want. Next year i bet we make a play for Barkley or Landry Jones. I just have a feeling this is not the year of the Seahawks QBOTF. I also believe that we will go after a linebacker via trade or FA, and a DE through the same channels. All just a guess but im confident in my comments
Peter – I could see that, it really depends I guess what happens in free agency. If the likes of Washington have no solution going into the draft, it’ll be obvious what to expect. But it’s going to be so fascinating to see what happens this year. The much weaker cost of investing in first round picks encourages teams to take more risks.
Joe – In that range, sure. But I’ve seen Weeden to Seattle in R1-2 and that isn’t going to happen. In round four? Absolutely there’s a chance.
They have drafted quarterbacks in the first round but none ever stuck . Mirer for 3 years was it ? And we don’t even want to think about the Mcguire pick. Truly the biggest bust in franchise history.