Join me for a live stream discussing the big trade at 4:15pm PT
The Seahawks have brought in Leonard Williams, giving the New York Giants their second rounder in 2024 and a fifth round pick in 2025.
The first thing I wanted to touch on was the quality of the next draft. It isn’t very good. I’ve spent considerable time over the last few weeks building a horizontal board for 2024. At the moment I have only three players worthy of ‘legit’ first round grades. I have another nine players I’d be prepared to draft in round one. There are 32 more players I’ve given second round grades.
That’s only 44 players in total, with 64 selections to be made in the first two rounds. I think this provides some useful context for the value of Seattle’s second round pick next year. However, it still doesn’t necessarily justify what they’ve paid to the Giants in this deal.
Williams turns 30 next year and he’s a free agent at the end of the season. This is an extreme short-term move. It’s akin to the Rams acquiring Von Miller. The problem is, Williams isn’t the impact-player Miller was.
He only had 2.5 sacks last season and so far he has 1.5 sacks this season. His best season came in 2020 during a contract year, when he had 11 sacks. Williams hasn’t come close to reaching those heights since. His PFF grade this year is 67.6 — good enough for 37th among interior defensive linemen. That’s marginally better than Mario Edwards Jr (67.2).
If they were bringing in a legit blue-chip star to be a potential ‘tipping point’ for the defense, this would be an extremely aggressive move but one that was more understandable. Instead it feels like the Seahawks have just spent a second and a fifth round pick to rent ten games of a decent Leonard Williams.
Had they made this kind of move for, say, Chase Young or Montez Sweat — at least you could argue that there’s some potential long-term thinking at play. They’re 27 and 24-years-old respectively. The franchise tag would be a security blanket, with both players fresh off rookie deals. Both players would be highly motivated to ‘cash-in’ next summer when their rookie deals end.
Let’s compare it to a similar trade a year ago. The Ravens gave the Bears a second and fifth rounder in the 2023 draft for 25-year-old Roquan Smith, who was then extended on a long term contract last January. I’m not sure 10 games of Williams compares well to the deal for Smith.
Even if the Seahawks extend Williams, is this a long-term play? How many years can they realistically expect to get out of him?
What impact is he legitimately going to have? I liked him as a player at his best and there’s no doubt the Seahawks are improved for having him. Yet you do have to consider value with trades. It’s hard to see how a second and fifth round pick for potentially a ten-game rental makes sense.
It seems that the Seahawks might’ve paid a premium price because the Giants are taking on his salary. Essentially, the Giants are buying better draft compensation as they potentially prepare to aggressively pursue the quarterback market next April.
I don’t think that’s good business for Seattle, especially considering Williams is out of contract next year. If they had a commitment beyond 2023 it would be slightly more understandable. This feels like an overly aggressive, short-term move where the only justification is to win ‘now’. Anything other than a deep playoff run, and/or a well-crafted contract extension, makes this a questionable move.
It’s hard to know how the Seahawks can extend him beyond this year. They’re practically spent up for 2024 as it is. Overthecap is projecting $4,895,356 in effective cap space and that is dependant on rollover money. They have some levers, including Geno Smith’s contract, but they already have a long list of free agents who will need to be retained or replaced. Now they have another mouth to feed, or it will literally be a ten-game rental before hoping you get a good comp pick in 2025 (no given because it requires Williams receiving a significant pay-day and the Seahawks being inactive in free agency).
This feels very similar to the Sheldon Richardson trade, another extreme short-term move that didn’t work out. Except at least they got a full season out of Richardson, who was younger when he arrived in Seattle and had the extra motivation of being in a contract year on his rookie deal, not having already been paid a fortune.
After two years of extremely effective drafting, where they’ve been incredibly restrained to retain picks not splurge, this feels like a return to the mistakes of the past. They’ve not succeeded chasing big trades. Their best moves were cheap and opportunistic. The foundation of their current roster was built through smart, sensible, conservative decision making. This is risky and similar to what they were doing in the latter stages of the LOB era.
While it might not be a great 2024 draft overall, it is deep at quarterback. I believe it’s increasingly clear they need to draft a quarterback. I won’t repeat everything I wrote yesterday. However, Geno Smith is showing impressive physical traits that are allowing him to make impressive plays and have moments where he excels. However, since the Germany game last year we’ve also seen a lot of the stuff that has prevented him from being more than he’s shown to be in his career so far. There are too many turnover-worthy plays, too many turnovers, the offense is streaky and going large stretches of games where they just can’t function.
This is not all Smith’s fault. As noted yesterday, Shane Waldron’s play-calling leaves a lot to be desired and he deserves to shoulder some blame too. I don’t think he has played well enough, however, to eliminate questions about his suitability as the long-term answer at quarterback or his ability to lead the team to the pinnacle. For me, he’s proving he’s a bridge to what’s next. It’s harder to acquire what’s next if you trade away good draft picks on extreme short-term trades.
You now have less scope to be aggressive in the draft (if you want to be). You’ve also given away a club-controlled young player for four years (two players if you include the fifth rounder) for a 10-game rental.
I’m sure there will be a feeling that they’re being aggressive because they sense an opportunity. The 49ers are on a three-game losing streak. The Eagles are not playing particularly well. The Lions were exposed against Baltimore. Minnesota just lost their quarterback. I can’t deny that this all makes a big trade more appealing. Yet I still want this team to get good value and I simply don’t think this is it. Not for such a short-term rental as this. Not for a player pushing 30 who hasn’t been a game-wrecker since 2020. Not for a second rounder.
As Curtis Allen points out, they’re basically all-in now:
#seahawks restructured Lockett, Diggs, Adams to gain $17m of cap. “Bought” about $9.35m of cap by upping the trade comp for Leonard Williams. They really are pushing their chips to the center of the table in 2023.
— Curtis Allen (@curtis93969) October 30, 2023
God forbid that Williams would pick up an injury between now and the end of the season yet that isn’t implausible for a player who missed five games in 2022. He has to be impactful, dynamic and healthy. Otherwise you’ve just blown your second best off-season asset in 2024, plus change.
Williams has to be worth it. He has to impact and change games. He has to be a difference maker. He needs to be the 2020 version the Giants added for just a third rounder a few years ago. Is he still a player who can do that?
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Only way this makes sense to me is if we feel like there’s a real path to an extension.
Otherwise, seems like we let the Giants buy up what should’ve been a 3rd round pick deal, to a 2nd rounder by taking on the salary obligation – and trading picks for money, always feels like short term thinking to me.
Of course, a low 2nd rounder is not a sure thing (Eskridge, others examples abound) – but I’m kind of in agreement w the assessment that this team is finally younger and exciting, and sort of a QB away from being a very legit contender. This move feels like a step away from that path.
All that said – need to see LW play – maybe he’ll have a bigger impact than I’m thinking he will.
Me personally, not a fan of the trade. Leonard is a good quality player to bolster the D line but his age (as Rob mentioned) and giving up a 2nd pick is concerning. That kinda raises question on what Seattle is going to do with their 1st rd pick and their 3rd pick from Denver.
Are they going to trade back in the 1st or trade outta the 1st?
Will they trade that 3rd round pick from Denver to move into the 2nd?
Regarding addressing the QB issue, where would they take a qb?
I would like to draft a qb in the 1st or early rounds because Geno is showing week after week that the need to draft a franchise QB is becoming more necessary than ever.
His age is not an issue. He turned 29 only four months ago.
It’s a bit of an issue. He’s 30 next year and defensive tackles not necessarily stay healthy and impactful deep into their careers. Yet they seem to have spent a second rounder for 10 regular season games without much regard for whether he stays beyond this season
“They seem” is the key I think. You literally don’t know this – we’re all operating with the same information at this point. I hated the trade at first for many of the reasons you list, but I’ll withhold judgement until we get the whole picture. One thing you can’t deny, and again as you mention, they’re a better team today than yesterday. The Dline has felt a player or two short and they addressed it with a 5-2 record nonetheless. As a fan I’m incredibly excited to see how it looks and ready to ride the year out, and think about the consequences later at this point. You might say that’s the wrong type of thinking, but we’re not management people, we’re fans. It’s an entertaining team, and you can’t deny that.
Ok. Take out the words ‘they seem’.
They have dealt a second rounder for 10 games of Leonard Williams.
I think some of us aren’t convinced this is THE YEAR. It could be, but it doesn’t feel like it. And Williams isn’t a game wrecker. I guess I’m also not convinced Geno can get us there. I hope he can, but my gut tells me at this point we need a different QB to make a run. Maybe a new OC too. I think our defense can be even better next year and the year after, without mortgaging the future for a one year rental.
But are they a better team next year? The year after? Arguably no.
I hope this is more of a Dunlap trade than S.Richardson. Pete not knowing that the Seahawks ae leading the division during the press conference has this feeling a little desperate after the fact, considering the run d up the middle was exposed a bit yesterday
Well, Dunlap cost them a seventh rounder and BJ Finney
This is way more expensive
I wonder how much having the extra 3 round pick from the Broncos plays into this. Obviously losing a second still hurts, but I wonder is JS was OK with it simply because of the extra nearby pick. I do hope Seattle drafts a QB next year. Hopefully this trade does not mean they miss their QB next year.
It still would be an overpay IMO
A second on a rental just seems way too much unless you’re getting someone who can be as impactful as Von Miller in 2021. I sincerely hope Williams can do that but he hasn’t had a game-wrecking season since 2020
I actually like this signing a lot.
Does anyone remember Clint McDonald? He was a key interior pass rusher during Seattle’s dominant defense days. Leonard Williams gives the Seahawks another dude on the defensive line. He will help keep the other linemen fresh. He will be motivated to play well because it’s a contract year.
Seattle has some salary cap issues in 2024. Good teams usually do.
Why not go all in this year. The NFC looks very winnable. The Eagles, 49ers, Cowboys and Seahawks all could be the NFC champion. Seattle has some major flaws, but this signing fixes one of them.
GO HAWKS!
I do agree on bolstering the D line and the NFC being winnable. However, Geno and the offensive play calling are going to prevent us from doing any damage if we make the playoffs. Let’s hope the go ahead TD to Smith-Njigba becomes the turn around for Geno.
I remember Clint McDonald. I’d happily have another Clint McDonald. But Clint McDonald didn’t cost a second round pick for 10 games.
You’re assuming this is only a 10 game rental. It could be.
They could afford to give up a second round pick because of the extra third round they’re going to get from Denver. Draft capital is important, but this team has the makings of a championship squad. Geno Smith is probably the only thing holding them back.
I am embracing this trade.
I’m not assuming that Marc
As things stand right now that’s exactly what it is and as the article notes, they do not have cap room next year. So sure, if they’re willing to be aggressive to move off Jamal Adams and/or Geno Smith, they’ll have some cap space. Otherwise, they have $6m to try and retain or replace a long, long list of FA’s.
*slaps forehead*
Why do people think the possibility of signing him to an extension or the amount of other picks the hawks have has ANYTHING to do with whether or not this is a good trade?
This is an individual transaction, 2nd+5th for 10 game rental. That’s it. That’s the deal. It either makes sense or it doesn’t. Signing L.W. as a free agent, or any other available free agent, is a separate deal that will either make sense or not (was he even at the top of our F.A. want list to begin with?) completely on its own merit. Linking them is the same Sunk Cost Fallacy that that seems to have compounded the Adam’s trade disaster.
And a 2nd pick is never something you just give away because you have other picks. With a 53 man roster and a salary cap it will ALWAYS be a valuable resource. They can try to replace an expensive player and make an additional big signing or retain a player they otherwise would’ve lost, they could move around the draft to target a player they love that would’ve been impossible to get, or even just trade it for even higher trade value in future drafts. A 2nd should NEVER just be given away because they have “other” picks, whatever the H that’s suppose to mean.
I know nothing about LW’s play style, or how it would even really work with our current defensive system, but my first thought was: he’s playing the Red Bryant role.
But that’s the thing, there is no clear path to extension. And not sure if we want to pay big money to him at this point, even if we could afford that.
As much as i like improving the team, Williams is not a blue chip player to merit that. I actually think it’s more likely we miss the Po altogether, than make it to the SB. We are not ready yet. I bet if we were playing at the AFC, this trade never happens.
I don’t hate the trade, but i don’t like it. It’s like buying a new high maintenance card, when having a credit card debt.
But it was done. Let’s hope Williams balls out.
That’s what bothers me about this trade. It’s not as if we’re right there for a SB run and just a player or two away. Leonard Williams is a good/solid player but not a game changer right now. He’s on his last year so unless we sign him to a new contract (and he’ll want to get paid), it’s like Rob said, it’s a 10 game rental for a 2nd round and 5th round pick. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
This next stretch of games is brutal and we might be lucky to win two or three of them. What if we trade for Williams and go into a tailspin and either don’t make the playoffs or go in as a wild card and exit early again. How does that justify giving up these draft picks, especially with how well they’ve improved the team with the last two drafts?
Of course, if they win the SB, no one will care about the picks given up (Haha!) but I don’t see that as a likely outcome. Seems like a very short-sighted move to me.
Shit move for a mediocre player in his last year who won’t be on the team next year. I mean, really? I’d be upset more if we hadnt seen this movie before. Rating: garbage.
Do we get a 3rd round comp pick back if he doesn’t resign !
Only if he signs an absolutely massive contract somewhere else and we are inactive in free agency ourselves
Well, us being inactive seems like a given at this point seeing our lack of cap space and needing to retain so many of our own.
Still, seems highly unlikely he fetches us more than a R4 comp IMO.
There are so many ifs and buts and the calculation involved, it may be 3 to 6th round.
Really good point, EZ.
In that potential scenario, LW crushes it and is rewarded with another big contract, JS/PC would have traded their mid to late-ish second round pick for an end of third round pick. A 2nd for a 3rd pick swap, plus a 2025 5th, does not seem like so much for stellar DL play that’s gonna help us a lot this season. Especially, when it seems like there won’t be much obvious top level talent in next year’s draft. And especially (part 2) if the Hawks are gonna be so strapped salary cap wise that they’re not gonna be able to sign any free agents themselves this off season.
In an alternate potential scenario the Hawks get a ten(+) games audition to determine if this 29 year old player is worth another contract. If so, maybe JS can figure something out with next season’s cap. GMs usually can. So we would have paid a 2nd and a 5th to add another good DL to the team. Yay!
Of course, a third possibility is that maybe LW’s washed, he barely contributes this season and no one really wants him for next season. In this scenario, JS/PC just pissed away a 2nd & a 5th. Crap.
But ya, I agree with others saying the Hawks just got better and deeper at a critical position. I think the guy can still play for sure. And I think this trade is gonna be well received in the locker room.
I’m looking forward to seeing how this plays out!
Considering we have almost zero cap space to sign our own let alone other free agents next year, I can’t see us not getting comp pick(s). We’ll lose other players for sure besides Williams.
We all called for more DL depth before the season. Now the defense has shown it is the strength of the team. Granted, it’s not LOB strong, but still will be the reason for any deep playoff run. PFF grades are fine and all, but seem to be used to justify arguments and dismissed otherwise. Big Cat Williams is still a rarity in the NFL, you’ve called that out for awhile Rob. I wonder how you would have felt about this move prior to the season…
The value isn’t great on face value. Would have loved to keep that 2nd. However, we’ve sat here and wondered how teams could add and add and add when there was no cap space and JS figured out a way to do it. Did they mortgage the future? A bit yes, but not catastrophically. I agree with this move more than the restructuring of the safeties.
If Waldron can get the offense back to balance, a move like this pushes the needle in our favor. For another SB win, it’s worth it.
I speak only for myself probably when i say that, yes we did want more d-line depth before the season. this is in the middle of the season.
Prior to the season my opinion would’ve been the same. A second rounder is too much for a rental.
Just a little taste of success and they return to the formula that tends to fail. Percy Harvin Jimmy Graham Jamal Adams Sheldon Richardson now Leonard Williams. Some people just don’t learn. And maybe the draft is lean of depth next year but so what? You got Abraham Lucas in the third round maybe he’s a second rounder in this upcoming draft I would take that kind of a player. This is the kind of stuff that Pete does though when he tastes a little bit of success he can’t help himself but dip into the chocolate cake
I’d take Percy off the list.
That return in the superbowl was worth the cost lol although the picks and cap room could of gotten us our second title.
It wasn’t. We could have kept Tate and kept the picks and then won the next year when we didn’t have either Tate or Harvin at the end of the Superbowl. We spent all of 2014 down 2 WRS and it cost us the superbowl. We would easily have won our first Superbowl without Harvin. He was a non-factor.
I think we lost 2014 when we let Clemons go. One more pass rusher and we win that game
So we would’ve only won, like, 37-8 without him…
Is it fair to say, that we can’t blame for sure PC on this? Because either we stop blaming him for aggressive trades for the last few years, or stop claiming he ceded draft control to JS. Because both can’t be true i am afraid.
I’m not one who believes he’s ceded control though. Look this is a formula that they have followed when they’ve tasted some success they devalue the draft pick and bring in the veteran impact player. This is not what they’ve done the last 2 years. This is going back to the old pattern.
Fair points. My idea is that we seem to believe that PC is telling what to do to JS and PC gets all the blame but JS gets all the credit. He is like a saint among the fans, who wants a QB with traits, can’t wait to draft one (yet he never did in 13 years except Russ), loves draft capital, reluctantly does trades which Pete wants and so on. When in fact we don’t know.
It’s very possible, John told Pete, that “we can bolster Dline with Williams for a 2nd, do you want to do this”? Or is it like, “John, please get us the best dline player no matter the cost”?.
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, how to attribute the blame and success, i for one feel that we been a bit too generous to JS and a bit too harsh on PC.
True, probably for the general fan base. Me personally I wanted them both gone for quite a while. But right now they can do no wrong. They’re five and two. Right now pete’s the toast of the town and they’re going to call John the most under rated GM in all of sports from the local media. To me this is the old pattern emerging and I just feel that they couldn’t help themselves after winning a game yesterday that they probably should have lost against a backup quarterback
An attempt at positivity.
Maybe the nfc door is wide open but yesterday showed we are not a vaunted run defense and there’s no way to walk through that door letting oponents run at us for 160+ yards ( eagles, eagles again in the playoffs, ravens on sunday, niners twice if they get right over the bye)
I lean that way myself. I think Williams is here for run defense, not sacks.
I have been bullish on Leonard Williams and a few other Giant defenders ever since they came to Seattle and kicked ass in 2020. Small sample size, I know, but it left a memory.
Hope it all works out.
I hope they haven’t spent a second round pick for, as things stand, 10 games of run defense
Otherwise they should’ve just signed a run defender in March/April time when we could all see they were thin there
Bingo. This, 100%. All of the good that they’ve done, building up of the overall roster, and then another horrible overpaying trade to put them back in the hole. Sheldon Richardson trade reverberated for years and they had a hard time recovering. They just went against the success of what they have done because they are back to these “smarter than the rest” moves.
This is a bad move. No contract for a ho-hum player rental. Only positive is that they only have a first to use for a quarterback. Either take one with the original pick or trade up. This is a disappointing move.
Not a huge fan of the compensation, but I think a lot of us thought they would try to trade for a thick boy up front. These are the kind of trades that set them back in the past, but as a fan I am just going to root for the guy to come in and light it up.
Somewhat related (?) Rob have you watched much of what Cam Young has done this year? I havent really noticed him too much, but he seems to be doing a good job of plugging up space.
Would be a cool article to do a half way point in the season review of the most recent draft picks.
I think I’m coming to hate what I used to love. I can’t do another crap high-cost defensive Schneider trade for someone essentially useless long-term. What happened to the rebuild? QB is absolutely vital for next year and now we’re missing a 2nd and a 5th?! Hate it. Is this Pete? Is this John? Why would they throw away picks when they’ve been hitting on the recent draft classes, after so long? Look forward to more Geno INTs and missing out on a good QB next draft season.
Will choose to look at this cup half full.
As Rob said…
– Poor draft class next year.
– Seattle needs depth on DL.
– Giants swallow a big portion of the salary this year.
– No idea what the asking price is from Washington for Young or Sweat.
It’s a risk for sure.
But this defense looks that more formidable now in a winnable NFC.
A bit of a half empty glass:
Jarran Reed and LW’s contract. Reed is rolling this year on a pay scale that rests closer to bellore money than Dissly money.
If, Seattle can resign Williams I hope Reed won’t get upset that he’s the motor up front and the two other guys are making much more than him. Unless Williams either a. Balls out or b. Plays very well but suppresses his last contract value greatly….too which if that occurs he probably won’t be worth the picks.
I do hope this works and by that I mean we’re going toe to toe with someone in the nfc championship team.
Also on the glass half filled front- maybe this was the only D-line move they could do. The “buy down/buy up” aspect with the Giants covering the salary was needed to make a move. Without that the Seahawks make no move.
So, rather than comparing this trade with other imaginary trades, would you rather do this trade or nothing? I choose make the trade, and might suggest they double down and trade the first as well.
Like you stated above rob, the move speaks to the urgency of a pathway to the playoffs that includes home games.
Two levers I see them exercising is trading dk metcalf for a late 1 or a 2nd (possibly select odunze as a replacement?) and repeatedly trading back their ‘24 1st rounder to replenish what they gave up in this trade.
I feel confident the hawks can match whatever offer Leonard Williams gets. He won’t be coming off a 11.5 sack year like he did his last extension, at worst we’ll drive the price up to ensure a 3rd round compensatory pick. A 4th round compensatory + letting him walk after sub-par tenure is a win too. Please Pcjs don’t compound failures like jamal adams.
Question: was there not another contract(s) they could’ve restructured instead of jamal adams? That one made me mad with the cap savings and not even seeing him play prior to executing that seemed short sided. The cap savings could’ve made keeping jordyn/Bobby much easier.
If we trade DK and I’m not opposed to it I sincerely hope there’s a DT or other position to take with an extra first or second besides WR.
Not for nothing but this offense could be described at best as: higgildy, piggildy.
3 wrs. 4 wrs. There’s no plan.
But you really can not have a strong enough dline. Or even an edge since I ( hope) assume Taylor is not back next year.
Very true about the home games possibility.
I feel like Bobby at his age and having come back already is likely to give a hometown discount and be easy to keep around if we want.
I’m against trading Metcalf for anything less than a king’s ransom (two R1s to start). Lockett isn’t going to last forever and when he goes, we’ll need DK alongside JSN and Bobo.
If we could somehow get a 2025 R5-R6 from someone for Eskridge, that would be nice at this point too.
This feels like a classic Seahawks move.
One foot firmly in the present, and one stretched into the future.
With your crotch exposed.
Most of the time they’ve taken a shot to the crotch for trying to have it both ways. Can it work out for them?
I would have much preferred one of their 3rds and make that 5th a current to take on say $4m of LW’s contract. That probably wasn’t a deal the Giants would make though.
This deal tests Pete’s belief in Geno and Shane Waldron even more now.
The perfect analogy, my man.
I think they have their eyes on trading a name or two in the offseason for draft picks. Maybe that’s how they’re “covering” their exposed parts.
Classic seahawks move….
Another great term from this era like ‘seahawky’ that has multiple meanings.
1. Trade a medium high pick for a rental you maybe can’t retain
Or
2. Trade a low pick no one cares a out for marshawn, Diggs in his time.
They don’t really have the room themselves, regardless of what the Giants wanted. Feels like they were happy with the tradeoff because at least they don’t have to ‘bate the cap to fit him in now.
For me, the worth of it all comes down to whether or not they extend him, and at a reasonable cap.
But, if signing him for 2024 and beyond forces them to do something with other areas of the roster to accommodate him, I won’t complain.
Now there’s a thought.
+1. (Bye, Geno)
And one of the overpriced safeties at least!
Great image. I thought they had moved on and firmly decided to build through the draft after these past two, but it seems the temptation was too great for them.
At least they went for the position of greatest need right now, I’ll give them that much.
Maybe R3 this year and 2025 R4 could have got it done. I would definitely have preferred that.
I’m worried that this deal doubles them down on Waldron and Geno. If that’s the case, this could be the start of the end. Could be like tracking the McDowell draft pick. Led to Richardson, then led to years of trying to fix that hole. This trade worries me big-time.
Win now mode. Pete’s age is a factor here. Geno will have to crater for the Seahawks to move on from him. They will not take a QB if they can make it into the playoffs with Geno.
I just don’t know where they’ll get the money to stay competitive…seriously. I don’t know.
Move on from Geno. Roll with Lock for a few games and then let the rookie QB take his lumps for the rest of next season. Compete in 2025-27 with QB on a rookie deal.
Seems more and more likely to me that they are pinning themselves into that corner with every extension/trade they’ve made this year. To the point I’m thinking that was likely the plan all along unless Geno somehow reaches a whole new level he never has so far in his long career.
It certainly appears Geno is held in higher regard by Pete than by a good portion of us (including myself).
Quoted cha
It’s gonna test all us and our belief.
If by adding LW helps us win the division instead of wild card then it is worth it, home field for 2? games as compared to one and done.
I know we want to compete each year, but I feel talking like that is jumping the gun a bit. We started even better last year and then Geno fell back to earth/teams figured him out once they had more tape on him.
And honestly, I think Shanny is more likely to get SF back on track than our coaching staff to fix the sputtering offense.
(and our schedule only gets harder this year)
Well, at least it’s a player for the trenches and not an extra “toy” (gadget player, safety, receiving TE, etc.)
Curious to hop over to a couple NY sites and see what they think of him as a player. I imagine they are stoked for the extra picks. Maybe he’ll be surrounded by more DL talent here and be able to regain his output from a few seasons ago.
I don’t dislike the IDEA of the trade, but I definitely agree that a 2nd-rounder feels like a lot for a 10-game rental. The compensatory pick if we let him sign elsewhere is more theoretical than real, since Seattle has almost always favored a “quantity over quality” strategy in free agency that leaves them without the chance to earn comp picks. Too many BJ Finneys and Benson Mayowas. They’d have to be very disciplined about making sure they earn the comp pick and I just haven’t seen that restrained out of them in the past.
It is also strange that Williams was had for just a single 3rd rounder four years ago, but he took two picks, including a higher pick, to get him now.
I understand the desire to get him here to buttress the line, and maybe Pete can light a real fire under him to get him back closer to where he was a few years ago, but that feels like a chancy bet.
OVERALL: I don’t hate it but I don’t particularly like it either. I’d have held out for no higher than a 3rd rounder, but that’s just me.
I like this move. DL is improved by spreading around the PT so players stay fresher. And he’s better than most of our existing DTs except Reed. The move will be enhanced if it means a trade for more draft capital and a QB pick.
The only way this trade is worth it is if they win the Super Bowl and Williams was a big reason why. Other than that, this is more of the same crap they pulled with the aging LOB era where band-aids and crap moves ignoring the future ruled the day.
Dumb question:
Do we play early downs in a 4-2-5 BASE, then move to 4-2-5 NASCAR?
NASCAR (SAM): Darrell Taylor, Derick Hall
DT: Leonard Williams, Myles Adams
DE: Dre’Mont Jones, Mario Edwards
NT: Jarran Reed, Cameron Young
LEO: Boye Mafe, Frank Clark
MIKE: Bobby Wagner, Devin Bush
WILL: Jordyn Brooks, Drake Thomas
RCB: Tariq Woolen, Mike Jackson
LCB: Tre Brown, Kyu Kelly
NKL: Devon Witherspoon, Artie Burns
FS: Quandre Diggs, Jerrick Reed
SS: Jamal Adams, Julian Love
This looks AWESOME on paper !!!
That would be nice but they don’t let you play with 12. Unless we move to the CFL
They must feel this is necessary with the loss of Nwosu. With Nwosu and Mafe, they could (and did) run more of a 2-4-5 defense with the outside backers setting the edge. With the loss of Nwosu, Taylor is terrible at setting the edge, so they had to do something different. They will shift to more of a 3-3-5 nickel defense with Reed, Jones, and Williams all starting and Taylor only coming in on passing downs. The combo of Mafe and Jones/Williams will set the edges. This may also be a good move to get more out of Jones. Even if Williams is gone after the year, they will have Nwosu back next year and Hall with have more experience (hopefully making a second year leap similar to Mafe)
Would you be open to doing a review of how Williams played against the 49ers earlier this year? and the Eagles too if NY played them already this year(can’t remember)
PFF loved his game against SF.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fkjxfjupm7exb1.jpg
How much is a 2nd round pick at around #50 going to be worth next year?
Anyway, happy Halloween everybody!
Had this planned for a while. Enjoy.
https://x.com/AlbertB55481266/status/1719110491002356172?s=20
https://x.com/AlbertB55481266/status/1719110365751951746?s=20
https://x.com/AlbertB55481266/status/1719110281161326831?s=20
https://x.com/AlbertB55481266/status/1719110213809185043?s=20
https://x.com/AlbertB55481266/status/1719110094405648675?s=20
Week 9: would like to see Jonathan Sutherland signed to the PC (think he’s completed his injury settlement)
I like the move, 2nd is a little steep, but the Giants are paying him.
That 2nd rd pick doesn’t help us this year.
That 2nd rd pick, probably barely helps us next year. Look at what our recent R2 DL have produced in their first year.
The DL needed another impactful guy, and I believe he can be that on this team with the group we have, and it lowers their snap counts.
The NFC is not full of juggernauts. They have a legit shot to win the division, and this move helps. F*ck it, let’s roll and see what we can do. Obviously be nice if we can keep him for more than this season.
You can get a lot of good impactful players in the 2nd round. We got Boye Mafe, Ken Walker, and Zach Charbonnet (just to throw out a few names) in the 2nd round. Nick Chubb was also a second rounder.
It’s true, these type of trades rarely, if ever workout for the Hawk. Now if LW can post 5 sacks (= to Rams Miller), noticeable stout play against the run and the Hawks get the division or a NFC Championship game, then it was worth the picks. It also may force the Hawk to let go of a spendy safety and invest that big salary on the DL which would make many of us happy.
It seems his pass rush grade is still his strength while run grade and tackling have been weak.
Hey Rob! Could this be the farewell year for Pete? He wants to try one last year to go for it? It may not be, it just kind of has that feet to it! Just a thought
Maybe
interesting thought. it would be great to see Carroll exit on a high note.
It would be great to see him exit, period. Time for new philosophies that aren’t 40 years old.
This
Im not too excited for this trade, but what was needed is a better and bigger DT for sure. It just feels like they are going more all in for maybe Pete’s last year coaching.
Only problem is that Geno and Shane Waldron are not at the level they need to be to make a serious push in the playoffs or SB.. RW was better with a less effective O line and offensive talent from 2017 to 2020, and everyone saw what happened in the years they went to the playoffs in those years. (Not 2017 but RW played at mvp level despite no running backs and missing playoffs)
I just dont see it right now when the offense has 1-3 bad quarters a game and they expect to make a serious push for the SB..
I’m going to hold my assessment of this trade until after the season. First off, after watching the Browns continually gash us up the middle for six and seven yards a pop, it was obvious the Hawks were in need of more quality beef up front. The depth issue has concerned me all season, and we are an injury to an interior lineman away from a real tailspin. This move both shores up the middle of the line for the remainder of the season and allows for a ton of flexibility with Williams adept at any place from the nose out to a five tech. Sure a second is a high price, but there’s nothing that says that Schneider won’t find a way to resign him after this season, giving Seattle one of its better defensive lines its had in years. Let’s all take a deep breath and see how this thing turns out, and in the mean time, relish the fact that we’re better today than we were yesterday.
I think there are some very valid discussions that can be had right now about the value of this deal. If people want to just be happy with the trade, that’s their choice. I don’t think we need to appeal for people to essentially park any concerns though.
I agree wholeheartedly that there are legitimate concerns with the trade, as there are with almost any trade a team might make. But honestly, did anyone out there feel comfortable with an ultra raw rookie as our backup plan if Reed or Jones were to go down with an injury. Everyone has been begging for help along the defensive line throughout the draft, and early season, and the Hawks addressed an obvious need. I’m not saying people shouldn’t voice concerns, it’s just that our defensive line depth was maybe the biggest concern facing the Hawks going into the toughest stretch of the season. But, time will tell, it always does. By the way, I really enjoy the discussions on this blog. Thanks!
That doesn’t mean spending a second round pick on what amounts, currently, to a ten-game rental should just be automatically accepted and justified.
The value of this trade is worthy of discussion.
Rob, it seems like you’re dead set on your opinion on this trade. You keep responding as if I’m railing against anyone discussing the intricacies of this trade, but in fact you’re the one who seems to want to shut down any opinion that doesn’t line up with yours. This is a discussion, no? Let’s just agree to disagree.
I’m allowed to reply and comment to anyone, just as you are. You ask whether it’s a discussion. That usually means two people talking, not one person talking and everyone else not being allowed to reply without you complaining about it.
What about better next year and the year after that? That’s a discussion that can be had right now. Don’t have to blindly believe that the team is always right.
The discussions on this thread sound like those on Lookout Landing, arguments between ‘sustainable development’ and ‘try to win the big one now’, which to me as a born and raised Seattleite, though I no longer live there, is consistent with what I see as the current Seattle mentality which appears to be more EMO than Grunge or garage band rock (ala the Sonics and Wailers). i.e. more people looking for reasons to cry. I’m pleased the Seattle area has NFL and MLB teams, but my cry is I would like to see the return of the NBA Supersonics, I’m content for now just having the pro baseball and football teams, as nice as it would be to have victory parades for winning the biggest games, I’ll be fine just having the teams to follow and attend games when I’m back in the area.
Does this maybe lead to the thinking that PC is done after this year? All chips in this year?
One more year. Pete’s prolonged mantra
Well, this trade has gone down a lot smoother with an Undercrown Shade and a glass of Ledaig 10… 🥃
NYG fans are rightly quite ecstatic to get a R2 for a 29yo player who they got for a R3 when he was 25 and who was leaving anyway after this (lost) season. They do admit that his presence helped unlock Dexter Lawrence, however. Hopefully he can have the same effect on our DL, making it a strength.
Anyone have the numbers on his pass rush win percentage/pressure numbers? We all know sacks alone never tell the whole story.
I might have a sip of Laphraoig Lore
Enjoy! Haven’t tried that expression yet, but like Laphroaig.
The head of my writer’s group enjoys that Scotch.
Massive overpay. John would not have a deal inplace with Leonard as they want to see how he plays rest of season. At the end of year comes the hard low ball effort and LW will bolt like Clowney. Why all that hassle for a middle of pack aging player whose contract expires after 10 weeks?
John always overpays for so called premium players and undersells ours.
Coupled with this trade for an average defensive unit and the O being run by Shane, Pete and Geno is giving a massive headache.
I’d feel much better if we recoup some picks:
– Mike Jackson
– Devin Bush
– Lock
Anyone else?
Geno. Adams….
We’re trading second round picks, I can dream…
After this trade, they would not trade Geno for a 1st round pick.
Dee Eskeridge?
Conditional 2026 7th
Even that might be an overpay
No way they trade Lock after going all in on this season. If Geno falters badly, or gets injured they’ll no doubt be happy to plug in QB1.2 in Lock, and so will I…not expecting a SB run, but watching the Diamondbacks in the WS reminded me of that lightning in a bottle aspect of these things. If they don’t have Lock on the roster for a Geno implosion or injury, hope is lost…
I tend to agree with your logic, but Vikes call and offer R3 + R6, are you out?
They don’t even have a guy on the practice squad to replace him (I don’t think?) I mean, I’m sure they would be tempted, but I’d think I’d be foolish considering Geno’s seemingly regressing, and the upside of Lock is better than most. Could Drew Lock become the Nick Foles of a blessed Seahawks season? Haha I’m not counting on it, but it’s nice having him in your back pocket NOW instead of future picks, especially from what I’ve read from Rob about the the draft not being that deep.
Totally valid reason not to do it. Brock Osweiler is a legend here, attributed with the wins necessary to get Peyton the bye and ultimately the SB ring. Also last time Broncos made the playoffs.
Still think there’s a tempting offer for a low salary replacement QB for a team competing. I’d prefer Lock over Winston if I’m the Vikes.
Feels like John always overpays in trades like this. Byard went for a 5th rounder right? These older gusys usually go for mid-late picks especially if they havent produced in a while.
I’ve been wondering how playing for the Giants after getting paid big money might affect Williams’ motivation
Seems like typical Carrol wishful thinking. I don’t know why Williams only had one monster year, but for now it’s an anomaly. I certain hope he has many to come starting now, though.
Yes, because that tactic worked so well with Harvin, Adams (who both held our feet to the fire for max money), Richardson, Clowney…
Carrol and JS need to pull their head out and stop expecting players to take a pay cut to re-up or sign with Seattle. That happened ONCE with Avril and Bennett, and with Bennet it caused bitterness long-term. They should have just paid him.
Agents will not allow players to sign below market deals just because Seattle sucks at cap MGMT and overpaid for two safeties.
Sadly, you’re spot on here.
I absolutely know that highlights aren’t the be all and end all of anything, but Williams’ highlight clips, even from recent times, are very impressive to me. Very powerful-looking player.
That second rounder might have been helpful if we wanted to trade up next year, though…
It seems it must be well known, if JS shows interest, then propose something over the top and just wait, SEA simply will pay.
Just like Jerry Jones giving up a fourth for Trey Lance–waaay more than anyone else was offering.
All off-season you were saying how they have no depth in middle D line now they go and get depth as they are in first place and can compete and you don’t like it. I think we have to be aggressive if you want to win. If Reed were to go down it would be terrible
So because I raised concerns about the depth on the D-line, I now have to automatically approve any move they make — irrespective of perceived value?
Yes, and while you’re at it, crow about Levis 1 game masterpiece and explain why you said Carter was a bust, and also, why you hate the Seahawks, but also are a complete fanboy homer.
I’ll wait.
I believe Rob has not taken victory laps about levis. I goaded him on Twitter to no response.
He never said Carter was a bust. Infact he has said philly was probably the best spot in the entire league for him.
He only said the hawks would never draft him.
Rob is a fan with an opinion. You have no reading comprehension and likely believe everything you are told.
I hope he bans you but he likely won’t because he isn’t a soft skinned white knight whoretakeanna onlyfans subscriber
To be fair I think Lou was being sarcastic in his comment
I guess I should have added a 😉
My sarcasm and snark may have been too subtle.
May depend on who’s reading it Lou
(heads up: that was also sarcasm and snark)
The problem is that you don’t deal a future second round pick to address depth issues; you give up future second round picks for players that you honestly believe will put you into legitimate title contention. Which begs the question: even with Williams, are the Seahawks contenders? Sure, we are in first place in the division nearly halfway through the season, but there are a number of reasons to not exactly feel confident about that. For one, we are in the same division as the 49ers who looked practically unstoppable before two of the best players in the game went down to injuries; both of those two are expected to return sometime this season. Does Williams suddenly make the Seahawks better than the 49ers? We’ll get to find out; we still play them twice, along with the Eagles, the Cowboys, and the Ravens in a much tougher second half of the season. That should be concerning, since we weren’t exactly convincing in the first half – we played against four of the worst teams in league, and yet it wasn’t like we were dominant in any of those games; even against the Giants, our offense only mustered three scoring drive, and one of those was with our backup quarterback. And how does adding Williams help that issue? A defensive lineman is not going to suddenly fix an offense that at times looks like its going backwards.
“Yet you do have to consider value with trades.”
This, to me, is the legit critique. Based on prior trades, seems like an overpay for a rental.
But applaud Hawks for improving the team, and hope he plays well enough to be either extended or to generate a 3rd rd compensatory pick in 2025.
Go Hawks!
Pete’s obsession to measure up to 9ers DL with 2 games against coming up in the next 4 weeks and have a chance to take the division forced this trade. John succumbed to Pete’s pressure yet again.
I agree with this. I think if the 49ers don’t have a three-game losing streak this trade doesn’t happen
💯
Yep. They know Geno and the offense is what it is, but they also know the defense is starting to gain some steam, (Didn’t we say that this time last year though, when we were 6-3?) and they look at the murderers row of opponents coming up and if we can steal a few games we have a shot.
The entire NFC outside SF and Phi are in QB purgatory. There is a clear path to a Super Bowl. And then when you get there, you’re going to have to stop a legit QB.
I really hope for once it pays off, but I really hate mortgaging the future like this, especially since we’ve been burned so many damn times doing exactly this. “Oh, this is the year for Russ, if we can just get Richardson or Clowney to take the defense up a notch!”
I keep going back to the fact that we added to a need and atleast upgraded our rotation. This all works if our defense balls out and while they have been frustrating, we have looked better. We have seen better qb pressure this season, held Bengals in check a bit. If this works out, great! Maybe this boost helps the d enough to win some close games. Not excited about the price. But better than trading for another DB.
I still hope they get ruthless in offseason. Which is something kj Wright described pete as on the radio when a player pushes him too far. I think he claimed examples like Percy, housh. I hope they trade dk, move from geno, cut adams/diggs.
Michael Mayer with a big hit on punt coverage; Laporta continuing to look like a Pro Bowl calibre player. A really cool TE class.
I’m still undecided on how I feel about this trade…
…what it does signal to me is that the Org considers itself ‘all-in’ for this season.
I’m not sure I disagree with going all in (the NFC is winnable, full stop), although I’m loathe to give up draft capital.
What LDub represents to me is depth, and the potential to add depth and provide quality spelling of Reed and Dre’Mont, that came a price. It also suggests to me that they may not be done moving some pieces around.
Get to the big game, and then it’s any given Sunday! At least I know where the team’s head is at, I cannot get excited or upset with the LDub trade. I hope the change of scenery, stage, and the chance for a 3rd contract ignites him to play like a man possessed.
I’ve been laid up for the last couple weeks and so I’ve had some time to look at a couple more of the QBs, Will Howard has grown on me, Rattler feels like a perfect match, Ewers gives me a stomach ache, I can’t shake the feeling that Jayden Daniels is an option, Penix just doesn’t feel like a match. 3 of those 4 might be there at the end of Round 1. If Howard is the chosen one, Round 3 would be a target.
The giants’ blog spots are loving this trade.
All the giants’ fans are laughing their heads off, calling it the biggest fleecing of the season.
Some are putting it on par with the Jets’ fleecing with us with Adams
It’s funny that with all of our trades, the other team usually feels like that: happy and feeling like they robbed us. Oddly they are usually right too.
Lions fans were gutted at the Diggs trade.
That’s the only one that I can remember being that way. Also he was traded for a later pick, not a second and another pick.
Not even close. Top 5 worst trade in NFL history.
I’m not a fan of the compensation, but this kind of trade isn’t like one side won. If Hawks go to the SB and Williams balls out, it’s a great trade for us and them still. If he falls down on his 2nd snap and can’t play again, then it’s a terrible trade for us.
They can be happy with the trade for now and should be, but I most certainly wouldn’t trade places with a Giants fan.
Not much to do as a fan of a floundering team with a horrid QB contract than to be excited about the prospects of the future picks they got in a mid season trade. This fact leads it to be likely that they would overestimate the perceived value or “fleecing” that happened. It’s the only comfort they have right now.
I would love it too if I were them
A second round pick for a player they were going to lose in free agency in a matter of months
What a deal
With any trade, ultimately, it’s the result that counts. (for me at least)
One thought I had that others here have had as well is that this is potentially Pete’s swan song. If we reach a NFCCG he could leave on a relative ‘high’ having got there doing it his way. Maybe he views this as a ‘mini-window’ with a mix of aging vets & young up & comers. It sure seems like the cap has been managed for an ‘all in’ season. Are we going to put a better group around Geno realistically? Debatable. The biggest key to the rest of the season is HEALTH.
I feel the loss of Mike Morris for the season is the primary cause of this deal. Fingers crossed it works out!
If we’re going to speculate about the future/other trades that were possible, why not speculate about other teams that were in on the Williams trade. How would we all feel if it was announced that the same trade happened, but for the Niners? I’m guessing not good. Just a thought.
My opinion would be totally unchanged on the value and I’d suggest it was indicative of the Niners panicking
Putrid stuff.
Back on the hamster wheel for another year. This is the absolute worst part of ‘win forever,’ jammed up in no mans land – not good enough to go all the way, too proud to ever properly rebuild.
We’re going nowhere, and have no road to winning games that actually matter.
We got robbed. But when you jettison ALL your DL depth in one offseason, this is the kind of weak position you end up dealing from.
I haven’t taken notes on who exactly, but many on this board and others have been calling for the Seahawks to pick up a DL to bolster their line. And many have even targeted Big Cat Williams at the top of their wish list.
I suspect if we had given up one of our 3rd rounders instead of the 2nd rounder, there would be more enthusiasm about this deal. As a complete outsider, it feels like the Seahawks didn’t maximize their leverage, as the Giants had almost no way of dealing Williams after 4:00 Eastern today since that was the deadline for reworking his deal to eat most of his contract. But, zooming out, we overpaid by a round. Not ideal, but not the disaster that some on this board seem to be making this out to be.
That doesn’t mean people need to accept any means of addressing this, or should cease debating the value and sense of this particular trade.
Well yes, given the biggest issue raised about the trade is the value.
Nobody is using words like ‘disaster’. Let’s not reduce people voicing valid concerns about the value or sense of this trade to a false accusation of catastrophizing.
Rob I agree with you about the extra 3rd round pick the Seahawks get from Denver. Go look at the saints remaining schedule is laughable Detroit is there toughest game remaining.if I could draw up a perfect 9 game schedule it might be there’s.as of today drew lock might provide a higher comp pick next year then Leonard Williams..did anyone watch Jimmy G tonight? And 11 back up quarterbacks starting this week just saying
Bad value if we don’t to a tag on an extension. A late second round pick, even in this draft, isn’t worth ten games of Leonard Williams unless we win the big one. Probably not a wise decision for the future of the club after this season.
But this season? I’m choosing to dream about what rhis team could achieve in a weak NFC. The defense has already outperformed expectations. Young studs like mafe and Witherspoon are shining. Now they just shored up the unit’s biggest weakness. The offense is already loaded outside of QB. If geno goes on a run like he did first half last year this team could win it all.
Given it’s now 16 games since that initial run, this feels like a big ‘if’
I read on a PFF report that, since he has been tagged 2 times in the past, he cant be tagged anymore (or the cost would be extremely high). Wasn’t aware of this situation, but it came from a trusted source
I’m feeling a little discouraged by this trade. As in years past, the Seahawks didn’t properly use their resources in the offseason to build their team. They seemed to start well with the D. Jones signing aling with Jarren Reed. Really encouraging. Then I was hoping thet would finally cut their losses by getting rid of Adams and Diggs but they held on to them and then let go of depth lineman. This led to very thin DL depth. Now the cherry on top is overpaying for DL help because Seahawks are up against the cap and have to have the Giants pay L. Williams salary. Piss poor planning again led Seahawks to making another ill advised trade like they’ve done in past years. This is a well traveled road that Rob has pointed out before. I don’t think it’ll happen but I’m hoping Williams somehow is the missing piece to vault this defense into a top 10 unit this season to help the Seahawks inconsistent offense out.
This isn’t a desperation move by PC/JS but does seem like a reaction to Nwosu going down. I didn’t hate it till I read what they gave up for him and for how long. I wonder if Coach Kumbaya ever so slightly twisted JS’s arm to get this done.
As much as PC believes his system is the best and players are yearning to come to Seattle, it just not as elevated a choice as he might believe.
Man the comments on the YouTube video…you think Rob told people that their grandma was a horrible person.
Incredible, isn’t it?
Even if he gets hurt this week, this isn’t a team killer (a 2nd rounder). Signing him long term and having him not play (ala JA) would hurt this team in the long run. This gives the team a boast this run and sees if he fits (locker room and salary wise) for next year.
This ain’t a big deal if it goes south. I know people will say you can’t throw picks away, but I don’t see this (pick number 50 something) as a huge gamble until an extension.
Let’s take Mafe, Walker, Hall, and Charbonnet off of the team and see how it looks. Or only put them on the roster for one year.
IF they are able to extend him, that’s better. But this is a desperation move.
You are removing 4 players when the Hawks gave up only 1 2nd rounder???
Anyway, I will cherry pick the results as well –
Seahawks are on track to pick in the mid to high 50’s, none of the above you mentioned were taken above pick 52 –
Walker 41st overall
Mofe 40th overall
Charbonnet 52nd overall
Hall 37th overall
While the jury is still out on some of the above, I’ll point out
the following 2nd rounders that didn’t move the needle (most didn’t) for the Hawks
C Michael in 2013 at 62nd overall
P Richardson in 2014 at 45th overall
J Britt in 2014 at 64th overall
M McDowell in 2017 at 35th overall
E Pocic in 2017 at 58th overall
M Blair in 2019 at 47th overall
D Eskridge in 2021 at 56th overall
None of the above did any better, or much better than JAG would have. None of those alone cost the Seahawks a run to a title, nor would replacing one of those picks with the BBA using hindsight.
Again, one 2nd rounder isn’t a team/season/future killer.
I haven’t watched Rob’s livestream on the LW trade yet, but there doesn’t seem to be any mention of the USC connection. Uchenna was from USC too, I’m just saying haha. Hopefully LW helps bring the rush yards/game to an average less cringe!
Jarran Reed is 31 and I don’t see you guys complain about his age? This is a great trade because good DT is so hard to find, and our DL has just became legit.
Because Reed did not cost us any picks, and was signed for 1 season for cheap?
I shouldn’t get frustrated by comments like this but I can’t help it.
1. Jarran Reed didn’t cost the Seahawks a second round pick
2. Jarran Reed signed a modest two-year deal worth $4.5m per season
3. Leonard Williams cost the Seahawks their second most important off-season asset in 2024 for a guarantee only of 10 games and given the financial dilemma facing the Seahawks next year it will be a significant challenge to retain him
I could definitely see D Adams getting moved I wonder what his trade value is worth? I am guessing that the closer to the deadline the more desperate teams will become. The forty winer’s will probably make some kind of trade didn’t they have a Superbowl appearance locked up a month ago? They’re fan base surely believed that. And just to say the obvious there are a lot of crappy teams in the NFL..
Bobby Wagner is 33. I see this as a strong move that help bring veteran experience to the line. And it’s not always about sacks. This guy puts out a tremendous amount of pressure. Even just upping the pressure more with him and Frank Clarke gives the other guys room to shine in coverage. I sense more interceptions and more team sacks in the future.
That will all be necessary to justify the outlay
I like the trade because it gives us a good rotational player who is going to be super energized coming to a rising and first place team. He was captain the last two years for a reason.
They can use him like they did Bennett, and Bennett may be a good comp.
Now they almost have to use that 1st rounder on a QB, but we all get surprised on dradt day by these guys.
I agree with your optimism. Who knows what John is thinking? Maybe after 6 interceptions in the last 3 games they know that they will dump Geno next year and roll with Drew Lock or another career backup (like Geno was) and draft a QB in the first round. Who wants to give Geno a big payday? This way they focus more on defense and ball control to try and snatch a suddenly “wide open” NFC conference. Their 2 Super Bowl appearances under Pete were largely driven by a strong defense.
While I am very sceptical about this trade, mainly due to the compensation and Geno’s ability to lead this team through the big games, I still believe that the Hawks have an outside shot to contend this year, if everything falls in place.
I know we say this since week 2, but the Ravens game will be a great indicator for the direction this team is heading.
IMO the offense as a whole still needs to find their identity. Of course Geno’s erratic decisions have to improve, but I can’t understand why our current offense relies so much on Geno’s performance in the first place. I think the game planning could do so much more to take pressure of Geno and put him into more of a game manager type of role.
I am not trying to excuse Geno’s performance and some of his atrocious misses, but I haven’t seen the team rely on the run for a game or establish a real quick passing game.
Two months ago, I was desperate for a move like this—beef up the interior d-line. It is a short sighted move, but I’m okay with it. We can’t do everything to build for the future, sometimes we also need to think about winning right now, this season. Plus, they’re going to trade Geno for a 2nd rounder when the season is over anyway… right? Geno is currently the piece holding them back, not a future 2nd round pick. Maybe Pete and John thought they could help make up for Geno’s weaknesses by not allowing as many points on defense, that way Geno doesn’t have as much pressure to score as often.
Agreed, but trading R2 picks for aggressive ten game rentals is still worthy of debate. The cap situation also makes it a lot harder to retain him without cutting other and eating significant dead money again
Rob, there you go again. You keep saying things like “…that doesn’t mean it’s not worthy of debate.” whenever someone disagrees with your take on this. That road runs both ways, right? Why is it that when people voice opinions that you disagree with, that you automatically label them as not wanting to voice concerns or debate the issues. Your one sided rigid stance leaves little room for the open discussion you seem to expect from others.
David, I have no idea what the absolute f**k you are complaining about.
Nothing about my reply warrants you complaining.
I can reply to whatever I want, as can you.
But if all you are going to do is complain about me having an opinion, I’m not interested.
I’m going to start a site called “seahawks blog draft,” and only ever say everything is awesome. Then when someone disagrees with that, I’m going to agree with them.
It feels truly like that’s what folks want sometimes.
No title it “Seahawks Safe Space”
I’ve been going over this aspect of the deal since it will determine whether the R2 pick was too much (10 game rental) or reasonable return on investment by extending Williams to a manageable contract.
I don’t know what Williams thinks he’s worth for what will probably be his last multi year contract. On paper, he’s not worth anywhere near the $21m apy he gets now. It’s possible he could play well enough for the rest of the season to make an argument he’s still worth that. But regardless of the actual number, his salary will necessarily push someone else (or someone’s) off the roster.
The cap space albatrosses are obvious — Adams ($27m/$20m), Diggs ($21m/$10m), Geno ($31m/$17.4m), Mone ($6.4m/$500k), Dissly ($10m/$3m). There’s $45m in cap space right there.
I said previously, if fitting Williams’ extension into the cap forces Seattle to make some necessary tough decisions elsewhere, that’s ok.
They will get back the 2nd when they trade DK after the season.
I don’t know why people think this will happen
I guess you never know but I can see JS moving back in the 1st round & acquiring an extra 2nd. Lots of ways to recoup picks. Plus, at least at this moment, they can’t draft another RB in the 2nd next year!
I suspect that’s a distinct possibility (trading out of R1)
The old move back.
I’m way higher on this move than Rob..Williams also has a PFF 77 pass rush grade this year (the highest of his career). Even if the Seahawks had zero injuries they didn’t have enough interior defenders to be a legit contender. Now they kinda do! This is Pete and John declaring the NFC open for the taking! GO HAWKS!
I wonder if Pete Carroll was sick. His press conference yesterday was so subdued and quiet, it was out of character for him.
He stepped to the podium, and Jen Mueller said something about ‘how about a big smile’ referring to getting LW and Pete said ‘I’m good’
Any chance it was John’s call to make the trade and Pete was unhappy about it? (seems a reach but we don’t know what the power structure looks like now)
Part of me wondered if they were close to adding someone else and had to pivot
My dark thought was Reed or Jones has an injury or suspension and Pete was ticked they had to shell out to keep their iDL from collapsing.
Someone honestly asked him that? And people wonder why they criticize the local media….
To be fair, it was the Seahawks media person. She was probably trying to lead off her post-press conf report with “Pete Carroll had a big smile as he announced the Seahawks acquired Leonard Williams…”
Well, it is also hard to write something if Pete isn’t hitting the answers to the softball questions.
She just does 3 minute video caps for the official site/Twitter. She’s not a journalist, just a team rah-rah mouthpiece.
Pete must’ve been having a case of the mondays
PC LOAD LETTER
DK was quite sick on Sunday but played anyway. https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/dk-metcalfs-big-block-keys-game-winning-td-seahawks-wr-says-he-prides-himself-on-blocking/ Maybe there is something going around the clubhouse.
He sounded subdued on the Monday morning show this week and flat out sick on last weeks so I think you’re right.
Cant disagree with your analysis Rob. I would say I think this will be drastically different than the Sheldon Richardson situation for a few key reasons. SR was a known malcontent coming off a break up and he had weight issues along with injurie concerns. LWill is a pro’s pro. GUy shows up every minute and has thoroughly for 2 organizations that haven’t competed foe much his entire career. I think we are getting a top tier locker room guy who will be successful with this D unit in ways SR never could for the reasons mentioned.
Well, he has to be highly successful and/or he needs to be retained to justify a R2
I don’t love the trade tbh. I don’t really understand this sudden pivot to “win now” mode after 2 really good years of building a foundation through the draft. It’s been a fun 5-2 start but at this point I still don’t believe we are legit contenders, and that will likely become apparent over the next 6 weeks. I really don’t know what else we need to see from Geno for people to accept he is a middle of the road QB and nothing more. It feels like the entire front office and fan base are desperately clinging to the delusion that he’ll go on some Flacco-like tear in the playoffs.
The frustrating part is that the overpay was necessitated by our own horrible cap management. I give them credit for continuing to find new ways to get screwed by the Adams trade. It takes a lot of creativity to keep boffing your entire salary cap for one shockingly overpaid player at a minimally important position. I like winning but part of me still wishes we just punted on this season and ate all the dead money from Diggs and Adams so we can finally move on from this nightmare. We’d honestly probably still be 5-2 with Ryan Neal and some plug-in at FS considering how good our corners have been.
You said it. Eat all the cap this year and most likely get the same results with Neal and other.
Spot on. Like I said above, Adams is the gift that just keeps on giving. This is imo Pete Carroll’s ego and refusal to accept the trade was the biggest screw up of his career.
Classic. We are now ‘All-In’ in 2023 in great part to Jamal.
The remainder of 2023 is the ‘Geno Window’. We’ve got quite a bit of surface level talent, just not the gelatin or depth of the Eagles or 49ers. With 9 more games to stew & a healthy squad we have a punchers chance in the NFC playoffs.
F*cking guy doinks a header and all declare “he’s back, let’s go all-in”
Definitely keep Jamal on the field for corner kicks.
The header is the perfect synergy between fans that are very ambivalent about him to fans that keep calling him an all pro.
We get the win. He gets to pad his pass break ups. And for those that think vibes is the most important team metric, it’s definitely some kind of vibe.
Correction, 10 games to stew. My entire being revolts at this ‘17’ game bizz. 🤑🤮
Next day still feels the same.
The Leonard Williams brand has fans excited like he has some mystique as an all-pro DT, but has played slightly above average and old enough to be injury prone.
Optimism is fun I suppose- let’s hope he plays all-pro for us, let’s hope Geno returns to 1st half 2022 form, let’s hope Waldron makes adjustments- maybe this gets us to NFCCG or SB.
Tons of “ifs” needed to justify the trade compensation.
I am whelmed with this trade. The NFC seems to be wide open this season so the Seahawks found the best move they could make for a potential deep playoff run.
The Seahawks have an average to below average Quarterback with the “Governor” Geno Smith. Geno is not nearly good enough to lead a team to the Superbowl. Obviously there was no move to make now to improve at QB. Lock is probably not the answer either.
With the upcoming more difficult Seahawks schedule coming up, I fear that by the end of November, we are all going to be tired of seeing Geno be the Starting QB of the Seahawks.
Not going to lie, I didn’t even make it to the end of October.
Lock isn’t the answer. We know this. Geno is their best chance at winning this year. There is nothing else that they can do. But I’m not going to lie, I want to see Lock. I want a guy that is going to excite the fans and the offense. Not a guy that is going to get offended that a defender pulled him down to tackle him and it leads to a stupid penalty. Watching Geno is…kind of boring. Brings little confidence.
When Lock came in in the Giants game, the feel of the game was completely different. Refreshing. Exciting. I never thought I would be thinking this, but I’d rather see Lock in there.
If that’s true, it only further raises the question as to whether spending a R2 on a rental is wise
Honestly I’m not sure what to think about this trade I think it was done because of the injury to our best pass rusher and just being so thin on the front 7. This guy seems to be at least an average pass rusher with the right team. It seems steep because I think until we get a quarterback we will never accomplish anything of note. But it isn’t my job that is on the line.
Really? They play different positions and Seattle already signed Frank Clark to replace Nwosu.
What I absolutely don’t understand is, why do we always make these trades without a deal/extension in place? Cha? I really don’t get it. Am I just an idiot here? I’d only do these deals if something longer term has been worked out with the player. But we never do it, and then they move on or we sign them to megadeals because they have us by the balls.
As someone with a very dark sense of humor…..
1. Williams goes full circle back to the jets next year with their also great defense but he’ll also get to join the Arod ayahuasca magic bus ride for a run at the ring.
2. Or the niners realizing there is an opportunity to further add to their death and weaken us offer him something like 1 million more in guarantees.
Combining the deal with an immediate extension would be a mistake. He is pretty old. I am optomistic on deal but you can always sign him later. He could easily get hurt between now and end of season or not fit in. No need to combo an extension. Would be different if your trading for a younger star, then I could see the benefit.
The Jamal Adams deal was an epic blunder in this regard that stands alone.
Miles above the Clowney and Sheldon Richardson trades, and the LW trade as well.
I just don’t think it’s org policy to trade & sign a guy to a big extension. They’re willing to pay a high price for it.
They could have traded (probably) just one of their third-rounders for LW’s contract as-is, and negotiated an extension right then and there to lower his cap hit, but it would be really messy cap wise (but totally doable – creativity and writing a fat check solves just about any problem) and Pete probably likes the comfort of gauging fit before committing.
Thank you
I think I’m overall down on this move.
With the caveat being that in someway this was almost necessary. The NFC seems as open as it’s going to be. The team is stumbling and bumbling but feasting on backups and busts has put us in great position going forward and there’s no way we could afford to be Reed or even Jones down and out at any point this year.
It’s not being out on the second round. It’s being out from movement between our first pick and somewhere around 40-50 players before we are in the clock in the third round. The second rounder gives you flexibility to move up, down, whatever.
Then there’s the contract.
If he balls out ( which will be awesome…) but we don’t get a ring is there money to retain an expensive player next year? Is there still money to keep a semblance of a team? Forget the TE’s and Wagner. Can the team afford a career resurgent DT and Brooks plus Lewis? Because there’s a good deal of Brooks/Lewis level players in every draft between say picks #24 through #68 and we’re now out on that. Add that a native second rounder is yours for four years plus a lot cheaper than solid to plus level veterans.
I just hope this works. I thought this team needed like 1.5x more Mario Edwards’ on the roster to keep pace.
Side note: teams must love it when the FO comes calling. It just seems like we are the losing end of trades. Diggs and most definitely Lynch we won….all the other ones….not great.
I get they paid a hefty price for Leonard Williams but they could mitigate that loss by obtaining a compensatory pick if he leaves during the off-season right?
Only if he receives a significant contract offer early in free agency next year and the Seahawks do not make subsequent moves to add outside free agents
So it’s very difficult to work the system to get a high comp pick
Could the Cardinals actually trade Kyler today??? I wouldn’t have thought there was any way, but maybe the Vikings, Falcons or Jets are just that desperate?
Cha, is it financially possible or is the dead cap hit too much for the Cards to take on?
Kyler’s dead cap hit would be $97,528,000 & Arizona has $11,117,706 of cap space remaining in 2023. If my math is correct, assuming a trade would kick in that dead money immediately, Kyler ain’t going nowhere.
This year its impossible.
Next year a trade is their only option, they could not cut him. His contract calls for his 2025 salary & bonus to be guaranteed March 22, 2024. So a team would really have to be in love with him to make a trade. They basically have a pretty weak position in trade negotiations.
Their best option cap-wise is to draft Harrison Jr (or trade for a bounty of picks) and keep Murray and have him come roaring back in 2024.
Question for cha:
It doesn’t seem like Geno will be able to earn his $10M in bonus escalators this year – maybe $2M for team wins, but not other four categories. However, and this is the proverbial ‘good problem to have’…let’s suppose Geno goes on a tear in the 2nd half of the season. He’s clearly a bit streaky so it’s not out of the realm of possibility, even if unlikely. And let’s suppose he actually does earn his $10M via those five bonus categories.
So, in that scenario, given that we are already pressing close to the cap, where in the salary cap calculations do these chickens come home to roost? It occurs to me that if we are adding Clark and Williams, that reduces the limited cap space we already had, and an incremental $10M on top seems like it would be an issue.
Tbf if geno goes from where he is right now to white hot and rips off around 280 yards a game, throws 21 tds to only four ints here on out even grumpy me wouldn’t mind paying him somehow because this team would most certainly be the one seed through the playoffs and be in amazing position to host the nfc championship game at home.
+1
Seriously, if Geno hits those escalators it means he’s tearing the league up during the hardest part of our schedule and we’re looking to dominate the playoffs. I would absolutely LOVE that it’d be worth every penny.
Montez Sweat just traded to Chicago… for less than we paid for Leonard Williams
Would have hit their cap at $6.389m if they did that deal with no salary taken on by Washington.
Much more likely to get a comp pick as well if they don’t resign him.
I’m already legitimately sick. Then the D-backs lose, then the Williams trade. Sigh….
So OK guys…
Leonard Williams for a 2nd and 5th
29 years old
1.5 sacks this year, 2.5 last year
PFF grade 67.6 this year, 77.9 last year
Montez Sweat
27 years old
6.5 sacks this year, 8 last year
PFF grade 76.8 this year, 86.4 last year
Seattle’s pick will be later in R2 (presumably) so worth considering
Interior player vs outside rush to be taken into account too
Thoughts on the value of the Williams deal now we can compare?
LW 2023 cap: $647k
LW 2024 franchise tag: $21.6m
MS 2023 cap: $6.389m
MS 2024 franchise tag: approx $20.9m
This. This is the only argument to be made.
The Hawks did overpay on Williams to shoot their shot this year but our inability to field a team that didn’t horde valuable cap space into a singular position prohibited a move for a younger, more expensive player.
If Diggs or Adams is released before the season, or Love not signed, we likely have the finances to make a move like the Bears just did. Thankfully, he’s moving to a team that isn’t in our way, so, small blessings.
Jamal Adams, the gift that never stops screwing the Sea…….er, the gift that keeps on giving. Yeah, that’s what I meant. Honest.
Different positions that are hard to compare
EDGE vs 3T and the numbers don’t always show the interior guy’s impact.
The compensation is a wash — the 2025 R5 is the value difference between CHI’s high R2 and our low one.
The age difference is not significant enough to me.
And honestly, Seattle have decent EDGE already.
I think Williams fills a bigger more immediate need.
I think it’s pretty obvious that we paid a hefty price for Leonard Williams. Does his one monster season justify paying more in 2023 than the Giants did in 2020 is the question for me.
I also see a multitude of possible factors playing a role:
– PC / JS feel confident about our outside guys and really wanted to beef up the interior DL
– PC thinks (and already said) that LW will be better with us
– Pete thinks the NFC is wide open and wants to take a chance
The raw trade value difference between our 2nd rounder and CHI’s is as big as between Chicago’s 2nd rounder (currently 36) and the 24th / 25th pick, so raw value wise that might look okay between LW and Montez Sweat, especially factoring in the salary for the rest of the year. Though I think the raw pick values are not the best metric.
At the end of the day, I don’t really like the trade from our side, but it’s not like they’re mortgaging the future of the franchise.
Yes, we had bad trades that felt forced in the past, but should that stop us from being aggressive again when we see a window of opportunity?
Not trying to justify our trade that way, but I’m generally a strong proponent of taking chances. Let’s see how it works out this time.
Do I think we’re a serious contender within the NFC? Not really with the way Geno currently plays (basically as you pointed out since Germany last year).
But on the other hand, we’re in the driver’s seat in the NFCW and might have a shot at an homefield playoff game.
But I also feel like this is a trade without too much “in between”, it either ages horribly or great, considering the state of our team, our record, LW’s contract situation etc.
Let’s just hope for the best!
Agree with about 90% of this.
Disagree on decent EDGE. Taylor has been a mostly non factor and a liability at times. Love Hall getting reps. Not there yet. And Nwossu out.
Minus a wild game against the Giants I think the EDGE play has been pretty average.
Yeah I actually agree with the Edge position.
Just wanted to point out that it might be a classic Carroll thing where he thinks differently for some reason and sees Taylor just on the brink of breaking out 😀
I’m more talking about the value of the trades, rather than who is a better fit for Seattle
Does Sweat qualify as a game wrecker? I don’t think so.
As Blitzy says below, Williams fills a bigger immediate need that most on here have identified.
He doesn’t need to be a game-wrecker though
Provided they extend him (will at least tag him, they have +$80m to spend next year) they just acquired a talented pass rusher at a good age
Neither is this a ‘should’ve traded for Sweat’ comment. I’m gauging opinions on the value of the Williams trade now we have another trade to compare
Nwosu essentially giving us what Sweat would at what I’m guessing will be a smaller price. Interior D line is such a boon if it works out. I wish it was the broncos 3rd rounder instead but they took a shot with SF reeling a bit. Bare minimum they can tag and trade him for something in the offseason? Some harsh decisions coming in spring
According to everything said here, he cannot be tagged.
In fairness:
Sweat — 35.5 sacks in 4.5 seasons
Nwosu — 26.5 sacks in 5.5 seasons
I get it. Sweat is probably the better player. But Nwosu didn’t start until his last year in LA. Last 2.5 seasons is probably a more accurate measure.
Sweat – 19.5
Nwosu – 16.5
Moot point since he is hurt though
Can we still get Young and give Young and Williams the salaries that Adams and Diggs have? Please? Lol
As in all trades we will eventually find out what kind of a short term and long term impact this trade will have. The Hawks previous history is not reassuring but time will tell. For better or worse the Hawks took a “swing” at the deadline.
Not to mention how bad Frank Clark looked in that game, desperately needed to find rotation to lessen Reed’s snap count, etc…
Desperate times call for desperate…
Our interior line and run D just got totally exposed by the Browns no less!!
How? They ran the ball a lot, but 3.9 ypc isn’t exactly exposed. What got exposed, again, was our offense with 7 straight missed third down conversions and turning the ball over, allowing the Browns put up 20 straight points.
My thought on the trade is that JS and Pete looked at the team and the state of the NFC and said – “We’ve got as good of a shot as anyone. What is the one position that would be debilitating if we had an injury – and can we find anyone that can fill in that won’t ruin our cap?”
My guess would be that Reed is the guy they looked at and said, this thing could legitimately fall apart if he misses multiple games. We’ve made it work with backup OL and have depth at the skill positions. DL was thin to start the season and we’ve been lucky so far with relative health on the iDL.
So the thought process is fine. The compensation is heavily tied to the cap situation they’ve put themselves in. It’s disappointing, but not a surprise if you’ve been following their “management” of said cap.
In the end, I guess I’m okay with the deal. I don’t know as our chances at starting out next year 5-2 and making a run with a rookie QB and an even more f’d up cap are better than where we sit today.
I came to post my thoughts on this trade after letting it marinate overnight. Then see that you had already posted my take nearly verbatim a mere 30 minutes earlier.
It makes sense to me. The overpay in draft capital to secure a legit DL addition at $650k for the rest of the season is just the cost of the bed we’ve made with our salary cap. With the NFC power rankings getting murkier and Nwosu going down for the year, another depth move for the defensive front had to be made. This one has more upside than preserving that draft capital and getting a JAG to plug into the DL on similiar 2023 money.
Sure, this could be another move that we end up regretting, but I don’t think we were in a position to stand pat. If this breaks to the upside and our DL terrorizes the league for the rest of the year, these moves to bring in Clark and Williams on cheap rentals will be lauded as brilliant.
Did Pete recruit LW at USC?
If so, that’s a strong connection… would make me feel better about our chances of resigning him.
Class of 2012 so unlikely
Class of 2012? Wouldn’t that make him a 12 year pro at age 29?
After seeing the Sweat trade today, my opinion from yesterday remains the same; we over paid for Leonard Williams regarding draft compensation, because we’re not paying his salary. I think seeing what happens with the 49ers and their woes, this was a “we got a strike while the iron is hot” type of move. I will personally feel better about this trade, if we re-sign him.
Regarding Sweat, I think his trade was fair market and if we really needed an edge, wouldn’t have been mad had we made that trade first. Seeing how we got gashed in the running game this weekend, I see Williams helping Reed more than anything. I am about to rewatch the game now.
I think since Chicago’s pick is likely to be so high the Seahawks would have had to do a 2nd and 3rd. Or do something like swap their 1st for Washington’s 2nd and throw in a 3rd.
I guess if they can sign Williams to a modest contract it’s ok. But I still think it’s pretty high.
My initial reaction to the trade was this means no on a QB next year. I still think that’s the case. I think they’re fine with paying premium for average if they can make the playoffs.
I think they’ll have a to have a very high grade on someone, as in genuine top 10 pick sliding to 24, to take a QB in the 1st. Otherwise I doubt they draft anyone earlier than round 6. If that’s Cam Ward or Tyler van Dyke fine but I think Pete really likes Geno.
One thing on Pete is that he has shown he can develop players. That was Tony Pauline’s comment a few years ago. I think he might get a little too confident in that, but I can’t deny it.
If that is the case and they wait that long, or just pass on taking a quarterback, that will be their death sentence. All of the draft picks, good will they have earned back, will be wasted. We will be looking at a complete tear down. A souring of his legacy.
And I don’t think that Pete has developed players. Who? DK? We are on year 5? and he hasn’t progressed much. The young kids are more or less doing what they were as rookies. It’s been an issue for years: draft picks never got better and were never resigned.
I think they are either 100% taking a qb in round 1 or they are doubling down on Geno. One answer is correct.
You made some good points there. The other big factor we cant forget when assessing the trade is that the Giants eat almost 10MM in cap space this year from his contract…that by itself could justify moving from a third to a second, i believe.
Disagree there
I’d say it’s coming close to almost being the one remaining missing piece
I agree, but I’m starting to doubt if the FO thinks that. Outside of drafting Russ, every year has just been a disappointment at the position. They seem to think they can take anyone with a little experience and tools and win a super bowl with them, though they’ve never gotten close. And now they just traded away some ammunition to move up and do a falling Mahomes type trade up in 2024. I just don’t know anymore. At this point they’d have been better off going after Aaron Rodgers.
I assume it’s a practice squad signing
This is good news actually (not franchise changing news of course, but good regardless) – he had a pretty good pre-season and merited at least consideration for the squad (although considering the depth at the position, his chances were always slim). Having him back in the practice squad and assuming some movements at the position in 2024 (Diggs needs to go…nothing against the player, but he does not merit that much money….hopefully Love has low locked capital too), we might have a role for him next year
Love this! I see him as a poor man’s JA… underrated move.
Minnesota just traded for Josh Dobbs.
Over the past couple of seasons they’ve attempted to be prepared for life without Kirk by drafting Kellen Mond and Jaren Hall. Really though break.
Chance at what? Going one and done again in the playoffs?
I hope he balls out for them and takes them out of contention for one of these QBs in the coming draft
I was actually hoping they would trade for Lock and give us some draft ammo. #FreeDrewLock
I somehow doubt that would happen. If Geno were to get injured it would be time to start the Holton Ahlers experience. I don’t think Pete is ready for that.
At the risk of getting myself banned…What is up with all the crazy talk surrounding the L/W trade?
It is a big move for a high-profile player whose best days may be behind him. Discussing the trade, the player, and the future of the franchise in the context of that trade are open season. Especially on a ‘draft blog’. There are plenty of other sites to frequent if you aren’t interested in the long term plans of the Seahawks. There are long term commenters here that have good insight (I’m not name dropping them, they know who they are) and here of most places they are willing to give opinions that would get them dogpiled by talk radio followers in others.
I’ve decided I don’t really have a strong feeling about this trade, probably gave up a bit much, L/W is probably going to play better outside NY, it bolsters DLine depth…OK
I remind myself that the team has information that we don’t have, such as long term injury information, personality info, etc….
I think this trade does say a lot about how the Org views itself right now. I don’t think it is wrong to call the NFC wide open at the moment.
My gut says this is foreshadowing a soft reset of the roster in 2024. It also suggests the team is more in line with Rob’s thinking that this draft is not very good, Chicago’s move seems to second that.
If 2024 is a clearing off the books of some restrictive contracts, and a season to get a QBotF a red-shirt year, I think I have to be ok with that.
The negativity that has come along with this trade is…borderline unacceptable. If you aren’t all for it then you are an idiot (have literally seen that a few times) that doesn’t know anything. Or your are anti-team and don’t want them to win.
The trade could be great, could be a wash, could be another Sheldon Richardson trade. We don’t know. We have some facts and hopes for what they team could be or needs to do. No need to be toxic over it.
You bring up an interesting POV: maybe the team see’s this as the “all-in year” and if it doesn’t work out, gear up for 2025. Clear cap, clear unneeded players (safeties), get a young QBOTF in.
But this fanbase…I don’t know of another that is more cannibalistic. It’s a little pathetic.
A starting LG only merits a 6th round pick? OK.
I get he’s a free agent in 2024, but he’s started every game the last two seasons. Plus he’s still young.
In principle, any trade, whether financial or football picks/players is based on parties who see it differently. THat is normal, and is usually based on Time Reference. Giants have given up this year. The Hawks are looking around, even with all their issues, and saying hot damm, it could be us. They are looking at the glass half full. You could look at it and disagree, saying no, the glass is half empty, we need to bail on this year.
I love this blog because we can discuss such things. In my view, i don’t think Lock has ever been given a change to show place his talents in a winable environment.
This isn’t a diaster of a trade, but it isn’t a Wilson trade haul either.
JS and paid to make these decisions and there are many legit reasons it makes sense. We may not agree with the reasons, but if honest we can see they are a legit option. Consider early on how we were all moaning and groaning about the lack of an interior line. It has been a problem, covered up a bit by extended play by existing players, but is it sustainable? I don’t think so.
What is it worth to have a winning culture? Or for existing players to see that the coaches and front office see that the team THIS YEAR has a chance of doing something. THat is a benefit, not only for this year but subsequent years as well. How long does it take for Chicago or the Giants to build a winning tradition? Years.
I agree that the price for the WIlliams trade is high, but for a more complete team this year it may be worth it. THis isn’t a mortgage the franchise for 5 years kind of trade. I think we all are a bit biased by those that we have seen.
So it might be a rental. Or it might not. It might be just the thing that moves the needle performance wise for us this year. I don’t want to alwyas be thinking of “Next year”. There is a balance and i think the Hawks are getting it. Lots of younger strong players, mixing in the vet experience. Finally, who are we really giving up next year? Who knows, but it is a cost. Hell of a job to have to make these decisions. Glad i don’t have to, but can shoot spitwads from the peanut gallery at those who do!
49ers just traded for Chase Young
For a mid round pick, your worst fears yesterday are being realised. What is Young’s contract like?
Ouch.
49ers outdoing us again… 🤦♂️
3rd round pick for a recent #2 overall.pick. In last year of his deal.
Craziness… it’s an arms war. We fired a shot yesterday and SF counter fires. SF is in the red regarding cap next season so this was a rental for Chase.
Barring injuries, which do seem to haunt Shanny’s teams annually, they likely just sowed up the division. Hope JS and Pete are happy they traded away a top 64 pick to appear in another wild card game.
Sowed up the division? Pump the brakes lol. Chase Young has played in just over 50% of possible games since drafted and just tallied his first multi sack game of his career this year against a guard who had to fill in at tackle.
….and now goes to a better equipped, more talented defense (especially the front half). If he can muster pressures, Bosa, Armstead and Hargrove will feast. He doesn’t need to be a gamewrecker himself. Just play capable enough to draw attention, which allows the gamewreckers to wreck games.
But, I’m sure Stone Forsythe and Grandpa Peters will totally neutralize the threat.
True, Young doesn’t solve all the Niners’ problems. I’ve been enjoying the SF fan blogs the past few weeks, and the D line falls somewhere below DC, corner, safety,and QB on their hate list. Although to be fair a lot of them are on Bosa’s case right now.
Oh..here we go..lol..
Good lord! “JS in on every move” how is that possible if this is happening?!?!? Is it a cost issue? Does LW cost a lot less than Chase Young?
Young’s salary the rest of the way is $561k
If that is the case and JS didn’t simply gloss over Young as an option, should it be assumed they didn’t want to grab another EDGE player? That or Washington simply didn’t want to deal a player to Seattle.
The Hawks had to get another interior DL guy.
Reed played 75% of snaps last week, that’s a recipe for a guy who is a shell by the end of the season.
Another edge would have been nice, but a DT really was a must.
Is this why PC was so glum yesterday?
Pete wants someone specific and John overpays as usual. on right track for a bit with Draft and now back at the poker table.
if it is just up to John.. he will be doing trades like 5th for Diggs
Except Pete on his press conference said John “chose,” this player.
I’m sure Montez Sweat is pissed. He gets traded to a dumpster fire of an organization and Chase Young gets a shot at a Super Bowl.
Pairing Young with Bosa is huge for them
If true, that’s a steal
Been thinking a lot about this. My initial thoughts were largely excitement, I’m not watching the Giants every week but this is a player I recognise as a plus pass rushing defensive tackle l, and while he’s not a game wrecker on his own, when you’ve got a talented rising defense like Seattle’s adding that quality piece can be what it takes to elevate them.
But since I have cooled a little. Experience tells me to expect this to be a rental. Pete will fancy his chances at recruiting him back for less and it won’t work. I don’t mean that as a dig at Pete, I admire his optimistic outlook and it produces good outcomes for the culture of this team. But my expectation is that Seattle probably doesn’t win a SB, Williams walks in FA and Seattle just doesn’t have a second round pick next year.
Still, excited to see what this defense can be the rest of the year. We are a better team than we were last week.
It is interesting that a lot of D-line are being moved at the deadline. Everybody wants more depth and talent in the trenches heading down the stretch.
The third round pick for chase young is a comp third rounder which means clear at the end of that round.
And that’s what happens when you don’t tie up 40 million dollars on 3 safeties. You can actually afford to pay the salary if someone you trade for.
“Young’s salary the rest of the way is $561k”
Per cha’s earlier comment, that isn’t even the issue, which makes this trade miss even more baffling.
SIGH
+1
Williams probably has more impact for Hawks than Young would have for 2023.
But Nuck the Finers man!!
We sure could use one of those rookie QB contracts.
I want to believe you are correct about Williams having more impact. We shall see
I only say that because our edge depth has looked pretty good. Also should free up Dre Jones more often.
Young would have been nice for the future though.
You were spot on with that safety $$$ comment though.
Just felt like it was easy to see this coming.
My #1 trade target going to SF is such a gut punch.
Then our overpay just hurts all the more. To me LW was worth a 4th. A 3rd if they took on money. Was shocked at the 2nd round+ price.
Wish we managed the cap more along the lines of the 49rs.
Ok. Now that Young trade has happened we need to have a conversation about the Seahawks negotiating skills.
I think they’re as streaky as Geno when it comes to trading. They’ll do something awesome and then…
In a vacuum that ignores age, I’d rather have LW over the commanders Edge guys that got traded because I think we need DL talent more than edge, even with the loss of Nwosu. We got Clark for nothing, he got here on Thursday before the game. I think he can provide a little pass rush juice off the edge in rotation that can help mitigate the loss of Nwosu. Hopefully he can still bring his playoff A game. The second round compensation is higher because we couldn’t take on the contract, that’s the bed we made and are stuck in with the Safety contract madness. I hate that mess, but it’s a sunk cost at this point.
I’m still fine with all this. The NFC is weak, we are currently the 2 seed, despite issues. We are a better team than we were on Sunday. I’ve been critical of almost every very big trade JS has pulled, didn’t want Harvin, JG, or Adams, and was critical of Richardson afterwards just because he was wasn’t very good. I like this one.
+ 1
A weird talking point on other channels is a variation of these themes and I don’t get it at all:
1. Second round picks don’t matter. I think I can make a pretty easy argument that shows Seattle has made great use of the second round.
2. You can’t find a talent like this in the second round next year. Maybe. Maybe Seattle can’t because they are horrible at drafting dlinemen…minus Reed….a late second rounder.
I’m not rah, rah about the move. I don’t hate it. I said earlier this week that I don’t think there’s any player that a third round draft or higher would change our fortunes. I still pretty much feel that way. Hope this improved rotation brings even better things from Reed and Jones.
Bonus weird talking point. As some of the Geno crowd slightly changes their tune I see a lot of:
Qb play this year is down league wide. Now I don’t know if that’s empirically true. A cursory glance feels to me that it’s not. But I won’t know til week 17. Even if true that’s not a reason in any world to explain what’s going in with our starter.
Pete and John apparently pushed chips in. Let’s hope Geno gets closer to 25/10 td/int and 4100 yards and battles in the playoffs.
With the second round picks: take Walker, Charbonnet, or Mafe off of this team and see what happens. Or you know, take DK off of the team. Extremely lazy argument. If they are able to resign WIlliams, then that changes the trade a bit. But they have also not learned their lesson in regards to trading for a guy with no future contract.
With Geno, I literally had someone tell me “he’s fine, it could be worse.” Even if we have come to that argument…really? Why do we want to settle for mediocrity?
It is a very weak NFC (and really, a weak NFL overall). Team saw that and acted. I think if we lost Sunday and the 9er’s won, we might not be having this talk.
I saw this and thought it was full stop bizarre.
My take is that they may very well not see much they like for first or second round next year, other than maybe a QB or 2.
If you don’t have many day 1 or Day 2 grades, a defendable strategy might be to stick at one and if a player you like doesn’t fall, trade down, and do that again until you hit where you feel like the grades equal the pick. Example: I think Verse is a top 10 Edge prospect, Rob does not, Rob would rather trade down then take him at pick 7.
Pro: Sweat and Young won’t be on the field when we play Washington
Con: Sweat and Young won’t be on the field when 49ers play Washington
A general reminder to all fans, we have imperfect information, we don’t know what the market is or was for these players.
I expect Sweat to be a stud, but leave Chicago. I don’t expect Young to do much in SF.
L/W is reputed to be a leader. He seems like a lunchbox player. He brings some badly needed depth.
We don’t know what his contract demands might be, or that he would net us a pick.
To me, this pick says as much about how the Seahawks view their future as they do their present.
A ton of this.
If I seem down on LW it’s 100% not him. It’s that you and I have been in agreement that the team’s fortunes rest more on a player on the otherside of the ball than whatever LW is going to do.
Did we really gain ground on the 49rs after looking at both teams post trade deadline?
And to think here I was hoping we could get Chase Young for a 3rd before the LW trade.
After our trade for LW you could just feel either Sweat or Young was going to the 49rs.
With Young & Bosa the 49rs now have two of the top passrush win % guys as their edges.
Their D-line is insane.
Plus GM John Lynch specifically said they cleared cap space for the future.
“Really, we always look at the cap for three years out,” he said. “Obviously, we have all that room this year. But really it’s to create room for future years because we roll everything over. It helps us in future years because it creates some room we’re going to need.”
Get ready for Young to be extended after the season ends.
SF just seems to know how to build.
Except they really don’t
They desperately needed help in the back seven, they got none. Young is a big name, but has them played up to his draft position. Sweat would’ve been much more concerning.
Neither fixes what I’ve seen as the 9ers flaws from the preseason.
A great pass rush can aid the flaws on the back-end — and they have got at least two very good DB’s
Exactly, a great passrush always helps the backend.
I’m trying to stay positive and tell myself that Young is injury-prone. But still feels like we made the worst deal in terms of compensation. Time will tell if Williams, Sweat or Young will deliver the best results. I can only hope we went for the player we thought we needed the most. And we have a history of messing up drafts.
I don’t see how Young appreciably upgrades 49ers roster. Maybe he gives Bosa and Ferrell rest to be more effective late in a game. But he doesn’t plug a hole in their defense. They really needed a CB, and apparently they tried, but they didn’t get one.
I’m not so worried about him suiting up for them and it making much difference
https://www.ninersnation.com/2023/10/31/23940977/adoree-jackson-deommodore-lenoir-isaiah-oliver-49ers-giants-trade-deadline
Really? I think they might have the best pass rush in the league now. It looks formidable
I don’t understand how so many can’t see how Young easily improves the 49rs Defense.
They now have 2 edge rushers both at the top of passrush win rate %.
While not case with Leonard Williams, traded players could end up having an 18 game regular season, if the acquiring team has already had their bye but the selling team has not.
How does that work out from a player contract or salary cap split perspective?
I’m here for this…..
“Young, according to several Commanders coaches and other organizational sources, was viewed as an undisciplined player who developed bad habits such as deviating from assignments in an effort to make splash plays…” (Ducks for cover) @sfchronicle
https://twitter.com/MikeSilver/status/1719475801278550391?t=6k0hHaENNzAodtxoKdp0aA&s=19
Coaching could be the problem here. Time will tell. Hopefully he’s an arrogant hardhead who won’t listen. If not, he could actually break out and finally realize his full potential playing on that line. Rob’s right – hard to argue that SF doesn’t have the most fearsome DL in the NFL right now. And that will definitely help mask the weakness in their defensive backfield.
Washington has now totally dumped their young DL talent shipping Sweat and Young off. If Geno soesn’t light then up when they roll into town without those two, we’ll know we’re in big trouble.