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There’s no way Ute Seahawks stay with only four draft choices. Ruling out Russ for the moment and the ever present hometown bias that values our players more than the league does, which Seahawks players are the most likely to be traded and what draft picks would we see in return?
Here’s my general prediction for the compensation on a few players
Adams (saves $9.9m) – mid 1st
Lockett (saves $12.7m) – mid 2nd
Wagner (saves $9.6m) – mid 3rd
Diggs (saves $6.2m) – mid 4th
Reed (saves $9m) – mid 5th
The most likely of the above would be Adams. I’d take Miami’s pick 18,but i think you could squeeze a 2022 3rd or 4th as well.
Wagner maybe to Jacksonville for picks 65 & 146 (I think is reasonable value)
I prefer trading Wagner and Adams, with or without a Wilson trade.
I wouldn’t trade any of the others you have listed. I’d actually extend Reed along with Dunlap.
Tank
Honestly? None. Okay, I guess *maybe* Diggs for a 4th, 5th? But I wouldn’t expect us to trade anybody.
Thanks Rob. Good thoughts.
Another thing that blows a hole in the $39m dead hit argument: Philly absorbed $34m in the Wentz trade and are $43m over the cap.
If Philly can do it, Seattle can. It’s not that big of a roadblock.
Exactly!
The other thing so many of the media are missing is how much of a hammer the dead cap money can be in negotiations.
Not only will the Seahawks be able to pound the table and tell teams “do you really expect us to take that package AND swallow a $39m dead cap??”, the team acquiring Russell will be paying him:
$19m in 2021
$24m in 2022
$27m in 2023
In terms of AAV that’s around 15th-20th highest in the NFL. For three years!
All that dead cap money is effectively a subsidy for the team acquiring him.
They’re getting Russell freakingWilson for Teddy Bridgewater money.
The Seahawks better be asking for the moon.
Raiders trade Carr for a mid 1st round pick to, oh let’s say the dolphins #18, raiders then send Seahawks that pick and their entire draft this year, every pick as well as round 1 and 2 next year as well as Mariotta for Russ… that is the ‘moon’
For me, the moon would be three firsts from New Orleans, Lattimore & Ramczyk, and maybe another pick of some description.
Toss in Brandon Shell for the Saints.
Two proven building blocks and a whole bunch of picks.
Then attack the tape for QB’s.
I’d like to add give the Seahawks 48hrs to extend Lattimore & Ramczyk and lower their 2020 cap hit and lock them down.
I’d be on board with the Saint’s trade.
By the way one of my favorite Podcasts as it pretty much summed up everything no one else is discussing.
From beginning topics to the ending on Dunlap.
To me re-doing Dunlaps contact or extending him is a priority.
I get so tired of local media advocating a cut of Dunlap and trading Reed.
I don’t get the love for extending Adams over what Dunlap brings.
Another important topic included with everything else.
Thanks for getting this one up… So on point and well discussed by you guys.
Maybe mccoy the center as well since they have Ruiz at center now. Lattimore and Ramczyk would be great but maybe have to extend one because only have one franchise tag. Saints need to dump salary cam jordan only saves saints two mil pre june post june 13 mil interesting seeing how saints manuever the cap. 3 first Ramczyk and mccoy/ Adam Trautman might work.
My problem with the saints trade is that we get picks in the late first round, and we can expect future picks to be there, if not #32. We run into the problem every year that picking at the end of round 1 doesn’t have players at the marquis positions we need. We aren’t gonna get a DE, LT, and QB of the future with those picks. We’d still need to package them to trade up high.
But why is that such an issue?
If you were to get Lattimore and/or Ramcyzck — legit, all-pro level players — on top of a haul of picks, that’s far better than one top-10 pick and no all-pro players.
I would respectfully disagree on this trade:
* The 1st round picks are really at the VERY low end so really round #2 especially after the Saintsi get RW and the head towards the Super Bowl run with an elite franchise QB.
* He would stay in the NFC and be a roadblock to get back to the playoffs
* No QB in the trade and likely not an elite one available where the Saints will be picking the next 3 years…but I guess when the Hawks hit rock bottom after the trade they will have high picks?
My preference would obviously be to fix things between PC and RW but if it is broken and we have to trade – then to the AFC
Love the podcast. Thanks for all you do Rib!
That will be the case for whoever makes this trade though. Wilson will guarantee later picks beyond 2021.
I would also argue that this is a great draft between 20-75 so later picks for me are no problem. There are five guys I can think of right now who I would take at #15 that would still be there at 28, based on my own personal view of this class.
I always think this is overrated. If you trade a guy away, you’ve got to be prepared for future meetings. As long as he’s not in the NFC West, I’m cool with it. Especially if the deal delivers two all-pro studs.
Again, I’m not really concerned with this. Short of trading for Deshaun Watson immediately after, the simple fact is when you trade Russell Wilson you’re back in the hunt to draft a QB. So I would do that and add a bridge.
And frankly — I don’t think there’s a major gap between the consensus top 3-4 quarterbacks in this draft and Kellen Mond or Davis Mills. I would consider either in the late first.
You think Carr would net that much less than Matt Stafford?
I think the Rams over paid, they were desperate to get rid of Goff. Also Rams gave 1st in 22 and 23 which some say are less valuable than a 1st next month.
Fowler also says RW “thinks the Bears have an emerging OL”
https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1367570119044567042
Led by Germain Ifedi
I guess the Hawks dropped the ball not moving Ifedi to RG. Glowinski and Ifedi turning players.
*turning into solid players is what I meant to write
Imagine that, a player performing better on another team after that other team moves him back to his natural position.
Pete Carroll, John Schneider and Jody Allen should be on a plane to Mexico or wherever RW is currently at to devise a plan for this offseanson AND for the future BEYOND the upcoming season. Yes, Jody Allen has to step in if she wants to sell a functional franchise WITH a franchise QB. At this point it does’nt matter whether she wanted the franchise or not.
They are seriously trapped right now. The Cap Hit is’nt the problem; their first round draft choice is; as it belongs to the Jets. The Seahawks without RW are contenders for a Top5 pick. Possible Returns for RW are second half firsts, RW can basically carry any team to 10+ wins.
What did the Raiders receive for Khalil Mack?? Josh Jacobs and Damon Arnette? And Mack was not even a QB and such easier to replace.
I don’t understand why the Seahawks are so passive right now. Please don’t sacrifice a franchise QB for a 70 year old coach too stubborn to change his scheme. Take pride that the coach is the issue not the owner where Deshau really wants out.
Sorry for the rant, I just don’t want to be diasappointed for staying up all night because I live in Germany. As alwas great talk between you, Rob and Robbie. Keep it up!
Danke!
Russ in Vegas today 👀
https://twitter.com/JoshDubowAP/status/1367614046271275010?s=20
One thing about the Seattle sports media: their personal and emotional attachment to beloved players AND coaches will always override their journalistic responsibility. It’s too painful, for most, to even think that Wilson can/will be traded, let alone invest time and effort into researching the possibilities of said trade. Rob and the rest of us support and root for our team but Rob is able to separate personal and emotional feelings from actual reality. Seattle media lives in a snow globe most of the time, sad to say. We’re fortunate to have a very few media types (Hugh and most of the time Brock) who will invest in objective opinions. Personally, I tend to root for the helmet, not the name on the back of the jersey. A lot less painful that way, imo.
At this point I don’t even bother reading Seattle sports media anymore: No new insights and unrealistic (ridoulous) ideas for the future lol
The ironic thing is that G Bell isn’t a Seahawks fan at all. It’s just a job to him. So he should be able to be dispassionate about it, but he clearly is missing the forest for the trees.
I’ve actually found Greg Bell to be one of the calmer media members during this years’ rumour season. A tad dismissive sure, but doesn’t appear to be too up in arms or reactionary.
‘A tad dismissive’ is a bit of an understatement.
How about completely dismissive of the biggest story in town?
He is completely dismissive and always lets out this exhausted laugh when asked about it as if he knows more than anyone else. It is the same confidence I heard every morning as he assured us the Hawks would sign Clowney.
I don’t mind that he has a strong opinion.
It’s that he hasn’t backed it up with any facts, reasoning or logic.
He literally told one user ‘you don’t know what I know, trust me’. Even if that’s true, he’s decided his constituency is his source and not the readers. And since when has he been a mover and shaker with breaking information? Ever?
Furthermore, he has taken to deliberately chiding anyone with an opinion other than his. He goes out of his way to retweet and subtweet and poke people with a stick.
I think he would report news, if there was any, but as a military man probably isn’t particularly interested in speculation, hearsay and gossip.
There’s a difference between ‘not being particularly interested in speculation, hearsay and gossip’ and being dismissive, condescending and arrogant — which unfortunately, intentional or not, is the way his reporting of this story has come across.
And while we’re at it — I would argue the #1 NFL insider reporting an on-the-record quote from Wilson’s agent regarding the four teams he’s open to being traded to is significant news.
Didn’t Bell also list off a litany of personal stressors in his life that prohibited him from spending any time on the Wilson story?
It was more a case of — having antagonised people on twitter, predictably he was given a bit of push back when the major developments started occurring (Schefter’s report).
So he quote-tweeted a fairly nondescript barb, calling that individual out, then listing several issues going on in his life.
It was a fairly tasteless move I thought.
You’ve had your 8 chances Josh. Wish you’d get clean but as a Seahawks fan all I can say is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…………
Well… if he goes to Chicago at least he can get reunited with Germain Ifedi again cause we know how well that pairing worked.
Yeah looking forward to another one of these plays (Germaine fancying himself a RB)….
https://youtu.be/kHquW9WyaJA
Insightful and stimulating as always, Rob.
You may well be right that a dead cap hit of $39 million is a “massive red herring”, but I wonder if the Seahawks front office would agree. From their point of view, they’d effectively be cutting their salary budget by ~6 per cent for three years – money that could be used for an additional top-tier free agent. No financial manager likes to burn money, and the fact that they have a lot of cap space in 2022 (though very few contracted players) doesn’t change that reality.
Wouldn’t the problem go away, though, if the Cowboys signed Prescott to a new, Seahawks approved contract that included $39 million in prorated signing bonus, and then swapped him and other consideration for Wilson? The dead money on the two sides would then offset, effectively making dead cap a non-issue.
Not really. They’d be the richest team in the NFL next year. They could borrow $80m this year and still have $100m to spend. That’s a great position to be in really, financially.
Well, they gave Michael Bennett a major contract extension in December 2016 and cut him a year later, taking on a huge dead hit so he could play in Philadelphia. They took on dead hits with Matt Flynn and others. It’s just part of the game. The Seahawks, of all teams, have lived with that.
No. It’s just not feasible for Dak to limit himself in that way and allow the Seahawks to cook up a contract. Quite rightly, he would tell the Cowboys to release him so he can be a free agent. And they would — because they can’t franchise him and trade for Wilson.
Is it just me, but is anybody else nervous about a RW trade every single time my phone chimes with a new notification?
Listening now. Great stuff. Would definitely prefer Alex Smith + Lattimore + Ramczyk over Derek Carr. Would also love to have a chance with Sam Darnold.
Thanks
Some ESPN people checking your work Rob. He’s probably gone by 56 though. Hawks would be in great place if they took your offseason knowledge on Wilson/Wagner/Adams etc…
Mike Clay
Seahawks select RB Javonte Williams with the No. 56 pick
If Seattle moves on from Carson due to cap constraints, it seems unlikely that it would enter 2021 with oft-injured Rashaad Penny and the likes of DeeJay Dallas, Travis Homer and Alex Collins in the backfield. Seattle has shown a propensity for drafting running backs with excellent YAC and elusiveness profiles in recent years, which is why Williams (ranked second in YAC and first in forced missed tackles in 2020 among this year’s RB class) figures to be atop their radar in the second round.
Yeah unfortunately he won’t make it to #56 — he’s just too good
Friendly reminder that in 2012, 2013, 2014 (arguably the best 3 years in Franchise history), Russ threw for 26,26, and 20 TDs, respectively.
How hard would it be to find a cheap QB (in FA or Draft) that could throw 25 TDs a season?
Um you are aware Seattle had a generational defense those years, right? The D that Pete Carroll has built at present is anything but. Your comparison of the 2 situations is disingenuous.
Obviously, it’d be ridiculous to expect JS/PC to build another LOB D.
But the second half of the season showed the D is only a few puzzle pieces away from being really good.
The cap capital from Russ’s contract + the draft capital would allow them to bolster D, commit to Carson “and company” run game, and put some maulers on the O-line.
Find your self a cheaper QB with fresher legs (I like the idea Rob brought up with Minshew)
I still think it’s 80/20 that Russ remains a Seahawk. But to be honest, I am rooting for the 20.
It’d at least be more interesting to watch.
Not interested in watching a Pete Carroll team without a QB. It’s bad enough getting to the playoffs before losing right away, but finishing with a crap record knowing the Jets get the spoils of our #1 pick would make matters worse.
You’re forgetting his rushing TDs which helped a lot:
2012 – 4 TD/489 yards
2013 – 1 TD/539 yards
2014 – 6 TD/849 yards
Inconvenient truth
We will never see those QB rushing numbers again with Russ and his 32 year old legs though.
Thanks again Rob & Robbie. It doesn’t sound like a podcast of “what the Robs want” because I get the impression you both prefer keeping Wilson. You’re able to have a realistic conversation about the situation, which I prefer to pretending it’s not happening.
The cap hit argument seems disingenuous because of the trades that happened last month. 3 teams just took it on the chin with massive dead cap hits in QB trades. Of course the Seahawks can do it too.
If they do end up having to trade Wilson, I hope it’s the Raiders. Keep him out of the NFC, get a competent QB and a boatload of picks. In this scenario, I’d trade Adams, Wagner, and maybe Lockett. Adams just seems better in theory than in real Seahawks games. Wagner and Lockett trades are a “year too early instead of a year too late” situation. Use the picks and cap space to build.an OL/DL based team and to fill in the missing skill positions.
Thanks Jed
Without a doubt I would prefer the off-season plan I posted a few weeks ago before all of this ramped up.
Increasingly if he is dealt I want the Saints. I want a couple of their players and the most draft stock possible.
I know they’re in the NFC but bring it on. Let’s go.
I get the idea with the Saints picks & players … that scenario you outlined seems about as good a trade as possible. And no matter where Russ ends up, the Seahawks are going to have to get past Brady & Rogers to get to the SB.
The writing seems to be on the wall – can we set o/u on the return? 5 picks with 3 #1s and a player?
As with the interview videos — if you have a reddit account or are part of other forums and can share the YouTube video around to help spread the word, it’d be much appreciated
If the Hawks trade him, do you think there’s any chance the Dolphins would consider trading #3 overall for Adams+1st?
Nope
Rob, been loving your openings to these podcasts. Gave me a good lol.
Thanks Nick 👍🏻
Glad somebody likes them 😂
Go to Patriots and see if you have a shot at winning another 5 or 6 rings Russ!!
He won’t want any piece of playing for BB
All 4 of his listed teams have offensive minded coaches.
If wilson ends up in New Orleans, anybody think seahawks would have interest in J. Winston?
He led the world in INTs in ’19. I don’t think Pete wants that.
I know Ramczyk and Lattimore is a great combo platter, but Khalil Mack creating havoc for opposing QBs…that’s hard to pass up, if the Bears made him available.
The thing I find frustrating in all of this is that it’s being discussed as if there is a reliable, proven actor making decisions for the Seahawks, but it’s Pete. After the calls he’s made following the big “reset,” and I mean every aspect of team building that has occurred, his competency is, at best, arguable.
Pete getting the best deal for RW is a toss-up. It could go either way.
Pete with $180 million and a boatload of draft picks doesn’t fill me with confidence that greatness results.
This is like trying to predict the placement of everything in your home after it’s hit by a tornado.
Great chat, by the way.
“This is like trying to predict the placement of everything in your home after it’s hit by a tornado.”
Outstanding – made me laugh. Thanks for the moment of levity.
There is a strategy the Hawks could take to open up the amount of teams bidding. They could tell his agent they have received about 10 calls from teams including the 4 he would consider. But those 4 didn’t make an offer that was worthy. But teams X and Y did. If you want out bad enough those are your choices.
To me Russ’s four choices don’t move the needle as far as return. But I could see a package from the Jets or Dolphins that could.
Russ would then have a decision to make.
As I said in the podcast, I don’t really get this fixation with having one high pick this year.
The key is getting a lot of picks and good starters
In pure draft capital I don’t see how you could come away with anything less than an ‘acceptable’ team’s 2021 & 2022 1st, 2nd & 3rd round picks plus their 2023 1st for RW. We’re still on the losing end of that deal until proven otherwise & it’s only a net gain of a 1st, two 2nds & a 3rd from what we would have had pre Adams.
Again, I’ll just repeat what I’ve said here and on the podcast. I don’t get the fixation with a top-10 pick.
The key to a deal is a lot of picks and a couple of quality veterans.
Not a top-10 pick. Not with this draft class.
I didn’t mention a top 10 pick so I assume that response wasn’t meant for me. Since we’re seemingly limited to the 4 ‘acceptable’ teams I’m talking about a 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1 bushel of picks.
RE, no top ten picks this year for you
If they received multiple picks from the Dolphins including the 3rd you could easily see JS trading down. Without looking at the trade chart how many picks would they have in the sweet spot of the draft at that point?
Where do you envision Mond going pick wise?
Would going to somewhere outside his 4 preferred bring Russ back to the building to try and make it work? Would it increase leverage getting more from those 4 teams?
Thanks for your content Rob it has been spot on
He’s made it clear who he’s willing to go to. Unfortunately the Seahawks have their hands tied here.
We will see
Well if you’re holding out hope that Miami are going to become an option you’ll only end up disappointed
Just used them as an example. That’s why in initial comment I said teams x and y.
From a negotiating standpoint it gives team a chance to “show respect/save face” and start repairing relationship.
For example,
The Seahawks show Russ exactly what his four teams are offering. They tell him they think he is much more valuable than that. They also show him what teams x and y offered and tell him they preferred to keep him but would consider teams x and y’s offer if that’s what he really wanted. Then ask him what would he do in their shoes?
This gives a starting point to work on relationship.
Gives team an out with media if Russ accepts.
Russ’s camp goes back to 4 teams and tells them to up offer.
Just negotiating.
I understand the angle you’re going for. I just don’t think it’s realistic to go to Wilson and convince him to stay based on the result of trade negotiations.
The only way you repair the relationship is to give him what he wants. Because he clearly no long believes in Carroll’s vision or Seattle’s ability to take him where he wants to go.
And it’s not like the Bears/Raiders/Saints aren’t going to make great offers.
I’m guessing that the thinking is, that a top ten pick would have massive value in a trade down scenario.
If you start at, say pick #3, and make a few trades down and end up at the end of round 1, how many more picks could we end up with in the “hot spot” of this draft?
That is definitely the plus side to picking early, for sure. Although I’m not sure many teams will be busting their balls to get in the top-10 this year.
But for me — the quality of a deal still rests in the veterans you get plus the quantity of picks. One or two top notch veterans plus a ridiculous haul = making the best of the situation IMO.
Khalil Mack would instantly send a charge into this defense.
Yes, especially if we are truly limited to the 4 teams that Russ threw out as destinations.
A few all-pro caliber players would be a must.
Who knows where Mond will end up going in the draft, but ideally we’d have a pick high enough to snag him. It may end up being too high for us, if our top pick is at the end of round one.
But we also need a RB and offensive linemen…
ugh…it feels like even with a Russ trade, we’d still have several key holes to fill. (putting aside the franchise QB hole)
This guy Fricking gets it. U just have to wait until they get to Russell and past the talk of the punter. But dead on with everything with Russell.
https://youtu.be/UnrxnPuu1hI
The whole thing good though.
I agree with him on timing. That something feels imminent. It’s trending that way.
Shrewd of you to mention Minshew, Rob, who has a little-mentioned 2-season TD/int ratio of 37/11 – while playing for a wretched team plagued by an overall lack of talent, and frequent injuries to the few offensive weapons available to Minshew. He led four comeback wins, four game winning drives. He’s cool in the pocket, nimble, a smart and accurate passer, with adequate arm strength. He was benched last year – his second – to ensure Jacksonville’s tanking strategy succeeded. Minshew played pretty damn well for a team that was as inept as Sam Darnold’s NY Jets. Darnold’s QB stats are, of course, abysmal. Minshew probably deserves a close look and a fair shot at a starting job somewhere, that’s all I’m suggesting. Much enjoyed the podcast, and, as always, the contributions of Robbie, though I believe he is perhaps a touch quick to discount the potential of Minshew. He may well prove to be only a back-up, but I believe the evidence thus far – stats and game film – suggest otherwise. 37/11
Minshew also had a 6 game stretch (weeks 2-7) where he had 5 INT and 4 fumbles lost. So he didn’t get benched ‘just’ to ensure JAX tanking. That period of 10/9 TD to TO ratio played in.
Still like the idea as QB competition though, as he’s had success and should be cheap.
Makes me cringe – Minshew starting instead of Russel Wilson – when you say it out loud it hurts
I share the cringe, truly. Minshew has had his bad stretches, sure … so has Wilson …but the 37/11 ratio stands. Minshew also played with injuries last year. I love Russ and am aghast the Hawks seem to be considering moving him – the blockhead football move of the century. If Pete were to announce he’s dedicating himself solely to improving/ coaching up the defense, and publicly state he’s relinquishing ANY involvement with the offense, that would, IMO, fully satisfy Wilson. But I think Pete won’t agree to that, thus here we are. I would feel worse to see Darnold taking over than Minshew.
Great article/podcast
I think after listening and reading shed loads of articles on this story that we now find ourselves in only one situation and that (in my opinion) is that Russ has to leave. Jody, Pete and Johns position within the franchise is currently not going to change for next season whereas after this story all the pressure would be on Russ next season if he stays. Anything that doesn’t work next season would be ‘well Russell upset the apple cart’ and nearly all the articles claim Seattle doesn’t have a good enough roster to reach a SB especially within the NFC West. And if it’s not Russell fault it’s the ‘outdated 70 year old coach’ – dividing the fans and creating a very sour atmosphere within.
Leaving only one choice engineer the best trade possible now and start the full rebuild this year and spare us all speculation/criticisms/ opinions that will be never ending next season.
How that trade looks I have no idea except I would hope Seattle would be able to create one of the most expensive trades in NFL history
Thanks Matty
If they trade Wilson, they would have paid him $70M for one year of his new contract ($52M signing bonus + $18M base for 2020). If this does not roll heads in the front office (looking at you Pete), we have officially become an incompetent franchise and likely entered pre-Allen days.
The Seahawks are going to be sold for billions. This is a drop in the ocean. That money will also go towards the collection of picks you get and one or more quality veterans in a trade.
Going to be a lot of this over the next few days.
Just waiting for the first painful decision by the Seahawks
First imo will be cutting Dunlap
That would be such a Seahawks move.
Guy saved your pass rush in 2020. Who cares. This is 2021. Show him to the door before you have to pay the $3m he ate for you.
Agree with you here cha. Why cut Dunlap and create more holes on the team? It makes no sense.
unless your tanking
Why tank though? They don’t have a first round pick next year.
Exactly. Tanking only helps the Jets.
So much doom and gloom about being able to move on from the teams biggest problem 🤦♂️. Michael Robinson absolutely nailed it, and I’d be really surprised if most of the veteran players don’t have the same feelings about RW being selfish and detrimental to the team success. 19th best QB in the league wants paid like Maholmes and Watson, and wants the team to play the style he wants for stats and personal recognition. A lot of what turned me off being an RW fan is finally hitting the mainstream local media. The lack of hard hitting coverage has as much to do with many people thinking RW is the problem and this is an opportunity to have the draft capital to truly put together a championship roster is the opportunity we’ve been waiting for to stop having the vision of this team marginalized bye a narcissistic QB need for recognition beyond his ability. Nobody wants to point out the why he’s the problem as we would prefer to keep his market value high. RW is fools gold, and if some team out there is willing to Morgage their future to help the Hawks rebuild don’t walk run to the office to finalize the deal!!
Frank I think we are the extreme minority but I agree. I have not been a fan of Wilson for a couple of years because of the diva attitude and cheesey social media crap. Since he became the leader and the LOB moved on the team has gone from being bullies to being soft.
I really hope the Hawks move him this offseason along with Adams and start fresh.
I sincerely hope you both post after Pete’s “vision” results in a 6-10 season, because if it’s the opposite, I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong about RW propping Pete up. And that’s not to say some of your criticisms of Russ aren’t valid. They are.
If they trade Russ, Bobby and Adams for a bunch of picks I hope they are worse than 6-10 next year. If they are in full rebuild the earlier we pick each round the better. Even if the Jets have our 1st in that awful Adams trade.
If Russ goes to the Bears I would be willing to take a bet with anyone that the Hawks win an SB before the Bears.
I think there’s plenty here I agree with and I am ready to just move on, but I stop short of saying he’s the teams biggest problem, I think he’s clearly an outstanding player who just doesn’t seem to mesh with this team anymore. This is still the guy who’s delivered countless improbable wins for this team.
So many of the spectacular plays are a result of not having made the easy throw earlier in the play due to mediocre field vision. I agree he’s a serviceable player, given you can pound the rock and open up deep opportunities playing to his strengths but he’s not willing to work within the boundaries of an offense tailor made to hid his weaknesses and play to his strengths. Russell has an identity crisis, and doesn’t want to be who he is the best at being and so the Seahawks have an identity crisis. As a player, very much not the teams biggest problem, but with the cap hit, the fighting management for control, not meshing with teammates, and wanting to secure his legacy rather than team legacy, I very much feel it addition bye subtraction if you can secure 3 first round picks, and a Ruiz in trade. Maybe you do go 6-10 next year with so many rookies playing, but sophomore year and beyond your in a Super Bowl window again while RW gets a reality check on why the Hawks never wanted to put the team on his shoulders elsewhere; unless he runs into a team like Manning did that can carry him in the playoffs.
More from Brandon Marshall today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f3fihhJV4Y
Nick Wright quite passionate too
FYI, begins at 4:00
Marshall echoing what many of us have been saying. Pete is the boss of this team. If you don’t get in line with his system, you’re gone.
That part at the end about Chicago. You just know that was a discussion before the show. They planned out their segment on Wilson and Marshall said, OK, to wrap this up, ask me about Chicago.
That was essentially Wilson pulling a Earl Thomas “Come and get me” via Marshall.
I am 95% convinced this is actually going to happen in the next week or two.
>I am 95% convinced this is actually going to happen in the next week or two.
+1
That’s an interesting theory.
We also had the whole, ‘Wilson thinks their O-line is developing nicely’ comment yesterday.
Hmmm….
Of the four teams “in the running” they just happen to pick Chicago, probably the least interesting, to wrap up the segment with a “can you imagine Russ on this team.” And it just so happens that Marshall has some incredibly well rehearsed, complimentary things to say to the point of calling them a contender with Russ leading their team.
that whole segment seemed very calculated
Rob you are once again correct there is going to be a lot of veteran players who are going to be released in the next few weeks it’s going to be interesting.. I have been thinking that if you are veteran running back who is a free agent how many will get a huge contact my guess is not that many.
It’s going to be a very interesting 10 days!
Not sure about how credible this is but this guy claims ‘one thing I know concretely, is the other 3 teams are balking at the cost of a RW trade, but the Bears have not. Willing to make the deal and pay a steep price.’
https://twitter.com/dabearsblog/status/1367784894588411911
You never know, but I will say one thing concretely – this ties perfectly into the conversation on this blog (lead by Rob) that the Bears make the most sense because the HC/GM *NEED* to make a move.
For that reason alone – I’m not saying this guy is right, but I don’t think he’s full of it. The whole clip was pretty reasonable IMO – no grandiose proclamations but a lot of good insight that aligns very well with what has been talked about.
That aspect of it certainly chimes.
Ryan Pace is not going to go into 2021 with Alex Smith or Nick Foles at quarterback, then be fired.
He might as well make a statement move.
How can teams balk at the cost when Stafford went for 2 1sts and a starting caliber qb? Russ is a top 5 qb in the league with the reputation and resume of one. I digress, but the bears immediately become superbowl contenders with Russ. I don’t know their cap situation, but they would likely franchise Robinson, paired with Mooney and Kmet, and Montgomery had a solid year as well. Even if they lose a couple pieces their defense will still be in the top 10. If I’m a bears fan I am praying for this trade to happen.
I guess it depends what the cost is…
The winds seem to be blowing towards a deal with Chicago. They seem to be getting mentioned a lot. That either legit smoke, or the Seahawks putting pressure on the Saints and Raiders.
Yeah… unfortunately that video doesn’t really convince me that the guy talking has any legit sources. The production values are… not great.
I will say this though. The Bears are desperate. Their GM doesn’t want to be known as the Trubisky over Mahomes/Watson guy. And he doesn’t want to get fired in a few months. So I wouldn’t be surprised if what he’s saying is still accurate.
John Clayton went on Chicago radio this morning and doubled down on his proclamation that the Hawks can’t trade RW due to the $39m. Said the Seahawks ‘would have to gut their roster’ to make that work and pretty firmly said it’s not happening.
John Clayton, professional wet blanket.
I used to enjoy John and his “database” but the last few years I’ve listened to him make bold claims that were just ridiculous and he doesn’t even open his mind to other considerations. Can’t even listen to the guy anymore.
I’m curious as to what happened with him at 710.
He was originally one of the 3 on air folks that were let go a few months back.
Suddenly, a few days later, he was back on the air.
I’m guessing something interesting went on behind the scenes with all that.
But yeah, his handling of this Russ situation is bizarre.
And now he’s been so adamant about it, he’ll never back down.
He just says random shit that isnt accurate. He has lost all credibility.
It’s not so much that he’s a wet blanket.
He’s just 100% wrong.
He’s talking utter nonsense.
I take no pleasure in saying this…John Clayton has been pretty useless for the better part of 5+ years. I mean…he doesn’t get *anything* right.
Utah Gross Ma Toast
LOL…oh man…the names.
If this RW trade goes down…you just know…”Ruskell Williams is headed to the Bears. What does this mean for Paul Carroll and Jake Schindler? We will find out. All we know, as of right now, is that Gene Smithers is your starting QB. This is the Professor, out.”
🤣
Perhaps Clayton is being a “shill” for the Seahawks, by saying that the millions of dead money makes it impossible to trade RW. Unless —-> “Maybe if trade partners add an additional 1-st round pick and change or a prime player or two to cover that as a part of the trade it would work”. I could easily see JS/PC telling Clayton & others to get out there on National media and drive the RW price up!
Personally, I’m thinking the trade RW plan was alive when they traded for Adams, I can’t think of any other reason the Seahawks would pay so much of their draft resources to get Adams unless they had a real plan to get them back (with interest) when trading RW. PC/JS are surely aware that RW costs a lot of money and that represents an opportunity to move him, save money and improve their draft resources significantly. The only problem with that is — who replaces RW on the roster and do they have a firm plan for that? Do they have an eye on a veteran QB or perhaps a QB in this years draft? I would sure hope so.
I’m not saying you are wrong…
but if that was a thought in their head when trading for Jamal…OMG we can’t get rid of PC/JS quick enough. That’s legitimately “worst FO” thinking, maybe of all time. I’m actually not being hyperbolic on this one.
And really the question is, would they actually have that kind of long term “vision”? Have they shown long term “vision” the last number of years?
I can’t believe that any modern day NFL team would NOT have, at a minimum, several versions (plans A, B & C) of a long term plan for team development. Anything less would be totally incompetent. PC/JS likely think outside the box on occasion but the long term plans for team development is a big part of their job in a near Billion dollar organization.
Seems like a lot of numerous rumors are being treated as 100% accurate facts.
How in the world does RW say “the OL –and– himself”– need to get much better at pass protection (a fact we all know) and he is then described as throwing his teammates under the bus? Then on the radio, can RW even exist in the locker room after throwing his OL under the bus? I call BS on all of that kind of crap. Since when do “franchise QB’s” NOT get to say WE need to get better at whatever? The media is reaching for everything negative to provoke fake news and they just keep spewing more garbage.
It’s the NFL offseason, what do you expect the media to do?
I’ve been listening to some of the coverage from Pat Macafee. That guy is a top class shit-stirrer but I do enjoy watching him! He did a great interview with Dan Campbell earlier this week. There was a lot in it that I thought was relevant to the Seahawks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJZPahW7jpI
If we do trade Wilson to one of the four teams it would most likely need to include players as well as draft picks. What players from the four teams get people excited?
Saints — Ramcyzk, Lattimore. I would say Cam Jordan but he won’t want to come here.
Bears — Khalil Mack, Kyle Fuller, Germain Ifedi (j/k)
Raiders — Carr or Mariota, Johnathan Abram
Dallas — I can’t think of anyone realistically, which is one of the main reasons why I think they’re the one team to distance themselves from this
Abram would let us move on from Jamal, but he might be just a worse version. PFF graded him out at a pitiful 35.9 and he was awful in coverage.
https://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2020/11/24/the-raiders-have-a-johnathan-abram-problem-that-needs-to-be-solved/
I would put Kolton Miller and Maxx Crosby as options from the Raiders (Jacobs and Carr have been discussed plenty).
Why would Cam Jordan not want to come here? I seem to be out of the loop on this one.
Just never got the feeling he fancies the culture/vibe
https://youtu.be/IDSBb8jkdVg?t=63
Haha, I see now. That was some good sarcasm by Cam right there.
I want Carr, Ruggs, Jacobs, a 1, 2, and 3 this year. I also want a future number one pick.
Hey Doug…
LOL
It’s so obvious.
I wonder why it got so bitter between those two?
Between Doug and Russ? I think Doug thinks Russ is a phoney with comments like using the Bible as a prop (that was on twitter a few days ago).
Doug is equally as phony. Not defending Russ…who is also a phony.
Out of all the big time, recent Seahawks – Marshawn and Kam are the only “non-phonies” IMO. Everyone else got too big for their britches.
KJ and Bobby don’t count because they never presented a character to the media. Those guys have just been “dudes” since the day they got here.
Along with Cliff.
Good clarification. Max Unger and Brandon Mebane were ballers, too.
The original and true BAMF’s
Thank God we finally got another one in Jamal Adams.
Russ is 1-3 in the playoffs without a a̶n̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶i̶m̶e̶ defense and a a̶n̶ ̶e̶l̶i̶t̶e̶ run game.
I think I’m the only Seahawks fan who truly never liked Doug. His “disrespected” bit was just too phony for me – it’s like the Jamal stuff on steroids.
I’m of the belief that besides the LOB, that entire team was a dysfunctional time bomb that would have gone off even if they had won that 2nd Super Bowl.
The wiping his ass in the end zone thing turned me off.
Agreed. Was too weird and cringe
Why would you do that in the SB?
Agree with your opinion about going off even with a win in 49. Only thing that might’ve kept them together would’ve been Marshawn. He was held in such regard by teammates and had such a force of personality that had he not checked out emotionally because he had scored the game winning TD, he MAYBE could’ve held them together, at least in the pursuit of 3 in a row and utter immoratality because it had never been done (and still hasn’t to this day in the Super Bowl era).
I genuinely think this is where the Seahawks are at. PC/JS don’t think Russ is as good as Russ thinks he is. They probably view him as a high tier-two QB in the league. Worth having, but not worth it if it comes with a ton of drama.
This is why I’m really confident a deal is going to get done. There are teams out there to do view Russ the way he views himself. The front office is in an incredible position of being able to play the whole “we don’t want or need to trade him, but I suppose we’d listen to mega deals.”
If PC/JS really do view the situation this way, they’re playing this game absolutely perfectly.
I’m warming to the idea of a Russ trade. However, if the alternative is a QB like Mariotta, Winson, or Trubinsky… then all the draft picks in the world won’t matter.
I imagine we’d be looking at a similar situation as the year we drafted Russ. We’d bring in a veteran, draft a rookie and let them fight it out. (and keep our fingers crossed that the rookie wins)
That’s definitely the scariest scenario, at all cost getting veteran players on veteran salary’s as a return should be avoided in the trade so the team doesn’t have to make as many cuts this year. I’d rather have a rookie and role the dice hard and bring in a Fitzpatrick or Minshew as insurance than either of those three. I wouldn’t even begin the think of any of those three unless as a free agent on a veteran minimum contract and pray they never see the field. I would question from a team building side if it isn’t actually a better practice to never sign QB to a second contract unless they are truly mvp candidates every year given the state of finance in the NFL around the position. I’d actually be slightly interested in what a Minshew could do with a stacked team.
Totally agree with you Cysco. PC especially doesn’t think Russ is a top level qb, one who you can flat out trust to run the entire offense.
I’m afraid Pete and Russ are too alike and set in their ways. Pete wants to play his style of ball and Russ thinks he’s a top 5 all time qb. I don’t see them finding a solution and working this out between one another.
It’s really too bad they can’t find away to coexistence anymore. I think they both could be wrong in thinking the grass is greener in doing it their way.
I view Russell the same way. Now is the time to deal, when the hype is still on his side.
I absolutely think this is how Pete and JS view Russ and I think they are correct. And Russ is totally unable to see it or accept it.
I’d absolutely rather have a higher pick than a lower pick. The Saints have talent they can include, but I like the idea of getting cheaper and younger at the same time, vs taking on a bunch of someone else’s bigh dollar veterans.
If it really is down to the four teams that RW listed, then I’d rather have pick 10 than pick 28. Because not only are you not swapping big contracts for other big contracts, you’re also giving yourself the ability to trade down and acquire additional picks if there isn’t a QB you like in that range. If you traded down from ten or even 17 or 20…you may get an addition pick in that sweet talent spot in the draft.
Of course this puts even more of the onus on PC/JS to draft well. Which I don’t necessarily trust them to do. The thing is though, if they can’t figure that part out, then we’re royally f’d anyway.
>bigh dollar veterans
Bing-pot works! It’s taking off!
https://youtu.be/fCHutYPDNEk
I just cannot understand the preference for one high pick, especially this year, versus two outstanding players at a good age
But that’s exactly what I’m saying here. Indont look at it as “one high pick”. I look at it as an opportunity to A. draft a QB you want or B. add additional picks by trading down.
Bing-pot, indeed! 😆
I am trying to understand how Robbie can be worried that we won’t make the right picks if we trade RW. If you can’t trust them with the haul that we would get back, how can you trust any pick they make with what they have or what they acquire with other trades?
Guessing because if you trade a hall of fame QB in his prime, it’d be more devastating to get little in return than any other kind of player traded away.
Exactly.
If we are so unconfident in our ability to draft, then we might as well lost all hope for this team for the next several years. They guys making the personnel decisions are here to stay.
As Rob as stated many times… we just need to draft better.
I have lost all hope for this team for the next several years, at least until new coaching is brought in (whether by new ownership or other means). This team is very very far from competing for a championship, both in terms of talent that will hit the field in 2021 and coaching. If you send Russ away, you’ll be 7-9 for 2-3 years while you retool. And then you better hope that PC/JS hits on those picks…
My problem with this is that I have lost every bit of faith in PC…and he’s the one making decisions. If JS was allowed to do his job…I would feel good about a rebuild.
Pete is the band conductor on the Titanic. It’s sinking and he’s leading the chorus.
Certainly feels that way.
Does anyone know if there’s a review out there of each team’s draft success rate over the last 10 years or so?
I’d like to say with confidence what I suspect is true: Seahawks have been at least as successful as the average over that time span. In fact, because of the unbridled success of the 2012 draft class, I’d say they’re well above it.
I am really surprised no one has commented further on the story Brandon Marshall told this morning about he and RW hitting on 9 of 10 routes for TDs in practice and then sitting with Pete for a half hour and explaining in detail why they thought their approach was then better one. After listening for that length of time, or pretending to do so, Pete just said “we’re doing it my way” and walked away. How many times have you heard successful executives say how important it is to have their emplyees have a voice in the direction of the company? Pete is a despot, a term I used several months ago and I stick by it.
Heard that too. What a telling story that is a real indictment on Pete. His conviction was his glory and his downfall. “But your way isn’t working.” “I don’t care.”
Just comically poetic.
This thing is over.
It is.
I mean what was more important this last season to the Patriots, having the GOAT head coach or the GOAT QB? Hmmmm, 7-9 without the QB.
BB also had what seemed like 1/2 his defense sit out year because of Covid.
Belichick is also a better coach and game manager than Caroll.
If we trade Russ I’d put money BB has better record next year.
Hoping I’m wrong, obviously alot depends on the compensation and the offseason after a trade.
Just ridiculous we have to see a Franchise QB traded. Adams trade was horrible.
Trading Adams will be one step in getting me back on board. I can’t really see a single argument for keeping him, and I’ve tried.
Does it seem like Pete has become more cautious as time has gone on?
He seems less inclined to play rookies and young players than he used to.
He also seems less inclined to go for it on 4th down than he used to.
perhaps it’s just a recognition that his team lacks talent, and he fears the negative consequences of risk taking, more than he sees the potential benefits?
He’s certainly not Bigg Balls Pete anymore.
Yeah, Brandon Marshall was here for like 5 minutes.
My single biggest reason that I’m 100% off the Pete wagon is that all the things that made him great, like going with younger talent, has vanished. He plays everything way too cautious.
Why play a young guy who could become great (or terrible) over a mediocre, overpriced Free Agent that has no upside left?
Mentioned this before…I’ll help PC pack his uHaul – can’t get rid of him quick enough, IMO. I firmly standby that he brings nothing to the table in 2021. His “culture building” has lead to every great player, minus Bobby and KJ, wanting to leave the team.
the guy who everyone said couldn’t make it in the NFL because he wasn’t firm and strong enough and too much of a player pleaser is now a despot who can’t make it in the NFL because he’s too firm and not pleasing to his players.
Interesting
“Hey coach, here’s how me and Jay Cutler used to do it” says the 34 year old wide receiver
https://twitter.com/TheHerd/status/1367902185342738432
‘RW to Chicago reminds me of Peyton to Denver. 8-8 squeaked into the playoffs, then got Peyton and went to the SB.’
Also points to a dynamic I hadn’t thought of. Pace and Nagy don’t have PC’s power.
If RW comes in and saves their jobs you’d better believe they’ll let him have a say.
Definitely easy to trade more under the circumstances they have.
You can afford to trade the farm knowing a Wilson trade is about the only thing that might save your job.
Seahawks better get both Kmett and Johnson in a Wilson deal. That’s just a minor starting point. TE would be set for years and there would be a legit CB opposite Reed. Not sure how they would get a competent starting QB though. Just because we could draft one doesn’t really mean anything. Too many Seahawks fans can’t comprehend what it was like with Friesz, Gelbaugh, Kemp, McGwire, Mirer, Dilfer, Stouffer, etc. I remember. It’s so hard to find a good QB. Wilson has made people forget that. The Seahawks will go from one of the envious teams in the NFL with a franchise QB to becoming one of the pathetic franchises in search of one. To win with a mediocre QB means you need a superior roster. What have Pete and John done the last half-decade to make us have confidence in them to actually get a good enough roster to have a team where a half-ass QB could take them to a championship?
The answer to your question is “nothing”.
I feel you. Every year I would wait for the draft and read SI for info about the latest QB we picked. It was a long, painful time to be a fan after Krieg departed. Then we got lucky with the trade for Hasselback and it was game on. Nine years of Mirer and club. Never better than 8-8 until Holmgren came on.
But the same vain Pete and John are the guys that drafted Wilson, not the guys that drafted Friesz, Gelbaugh, Kemp, McGwire, Mirer, Dilfer, Stouffe etc. So the first data point is a lot more relevant.
Spotrac
@spotrac
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2h
UPDATED: J.J. Watt’s contract includes 3 void years on the back end, allowing the $12M signing bonus to spread out the max 5 years, meaning his 2021 cap figure with the #Cardinals will be $4.9M.
Interesting
I’m thinking there’s going to be a lot of that this year.
I feel like we need to storm the VMAC, grab Carroll & throw him out by his bootstraps before he burns this ship to the ground like he did USC.
Thinking that’s how it all plays out myself. History does tend to repeat after all.
Then we will win another Superbowl with Peteball and we all have nothing to worry about 🙂
Cool. I’d love it and happily chow the crow. I’ll wager anyone and everyone that lives in the Portland/Vancouver area a beer that the Seahawks never get to, let alone win a Super Bowl with Pete Carroll in charge.
*never AGAIN*
https://twitter.com/Bengals/status/1367854032514060291
BJ Finney cut by the Bengals.
C’mon Seahawks, troll Russ and sign him.
Perfect. 🤣
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/bears/ct-chicago-bears-ryan-pace-roster-moves-salary-cap-20210305-bmg5h2yo3vfalj5uz7jclqmnjy-story.html
Anyone else think a multi-team trade is on the cards?
No, not at all. They never happen in the NFL.
The point you’ve made multiple times over the last few weeks is spot on. It isn’t just that you’re getting Russell Wilson. It’s the price you are getting a top 5 QB in the league for over the next three seasons. Combine that with a desperate coach and GM like Chicago and the package of the compensation they offer the Seahawks to trade Russell might shock the league. I think Chicago is going make an offer that is very difficult for Seattle to turn down. And it may be enough for Pete to say yes.
I would love to see a trade offer that shocks the league. What we do at QB if Chicago makes us a trade deal we can’t refuse? I wouldn’t want either of their QBs.
Trubisky can hand off which is mostly what PC wants.
That’s the million dollar question. And if there isn’t an answer Pete finds acceptable, I don’t think Russell ultimately gets traded.
Found this tool on OTC.com that tries to quantify the draft picks made by each team and their impact. It’s not a perfect tool, but it is interesting. It doesn’t account for injury or whether a player got a second contract, or how good or bad the roster they were trying to make was. For example Blake Bortles gets a high grade because he played almost 100% of snaps over his first 4 years, while Patrick Mahomes scores lower because he didn’t play but a few snaps as a rookie.
https://overthecap.com/rookie-class-evaluation/
It uses total snap percentages per player on their rookie deal as the sortable number. For example in 2016 Ifedi, Reed, Fant and Vannett were the highest contributors to score, based on snap % over their 4 year deals. It does more or less confirm the eye test (2011 & 2012 we were #2 in the NFL, but 2013 & 2019 we were in the bottom 6).
Alllllllbright https://turtleboysports.com/top-10-tweets-benjamin-allbright-deleted-while-he-pretended-his-account-was-hacked-by-russians-today/