Manning would like two... just like his brother
It seems the hot gossip at the moment has Peyton Manning joining the Seahawks when he’s finally put out of his misery and released by the Colts. Dan Pompei from the National Football Post speculated on the possibility this week, suggesting:
“Based on the buzz around the league, the Seahawks could be the early frontrunner for Peyton Manning, assuming he is released. Pete Carroll needs a quarterback and is believed to have a strong interest in at least exploring Manning. The Seahawks could offer Manning an attractive scenario. They have a young team with some fine skill players to put around him. They play in one of the league’s loudest stadiums. Manning wouldn’t be subject to the same kind of scrutiny in Seattle that he would in a lot of other markets.
“The Seahawks also could have a better feel for Manning’s medical situation than some teams. One of their team physicians, Stan Herring, who also is one of the country’s preeminent specialists for spine injuries. Herring is a member of the NFL’s Head, Neck and Spine Committee.”
Gregg Rosenthal at Pro-Football Talk also touted Manning to Seattle today, noting:
“Seattle isn’t choosing high enough to get Robert Griffin III and they may be too high for Ryan Tannehill. The Seahawks have ties to Matt Flynn and the organizational flexibility to add Manning, even if Manning isn’t healthy enough to sign until later in the offseason.
“We’d argue that signing Manning isn’t a panic move. It’s a big risk that is worth the potential reward for some organizations that need a franchise quarterback — like the Seahawks.”
Manning to Seattle is not an illogical suggestion by any means. The Seahawks do need to upgrade at quarterback and are poorly positioned in the draft to solve this problem. Manning’s strong reputation remains intact despite what will be an acrimonious departure from the franchise he helped build over more than a decade. For years he dragged a mediocre Indianapolis roster into contention and when he finally succumbed to injury, the Colts quickly became the worst team in the NFL. Seattle has a solid young core and having an experienced, proven quarterback would surely help the team improve upon back-to-back 7-9 seasons.
Despite all of that, I’m almost certain Manning won’t be moving to the PNW.
The Seahawks will add a quarterback at some stage during this off season. Charlie Whitehurst is unlikely to be re-signed, leaving Tarvaris Jackson and Josh Portis as the only two recognised quarterbacks on the roster. Although Pete Carroll has spoken warmly of Portis, it still seems a stretch to expect he’s ready to take on full-time back-up duties. Jackson has missed games through injury in the past and it seems unlikely the Seahawks will roll the dice on Portis taking over mid-way through a season if needs must. Adding a veteran will be a priority, if for no other reason than to increase competition. Even if Jackson is the starter again in 2012, the job won’t be handed to him.
I understand there’s a possibility Seattle will be active in the trade market, potentially acquiring a veteran quarterback. Both myself and Kip have touched on this recently and while we cannot offer you any names, it might be worth considering who could be available come March. There are a handful of viable options right now and this front office has been quite cunning to capitalise on cost-effective veteran trades (Marshawn Lynch, Chris Clemons, Leon Washington etc). They could work the magic again to upgrade the quarterback position and build a bridge towards attacking the 2013 draft for a long term successor.
I’m led to believe Manning isn’t the focus and that this is unlikely to change when he eventually becomes available. It might be the hot-topic in the NFL media right now, but Seahawks fans shouldn’t get their hopes up if they’re looking to buy the team’s updated jersey with ‘Manning’ blazed accross the back. I reached out to Scott Enyeart, a beat writer at USC and friend of the blog. He’s very close to several member of the Seahawks coaching staff and previously worked with Pete Carroll. Enyeart has also been pretty vocal on Manning not being a likely target for Seattle. Here’s what he had to say:
“There are a number of reasons I don’t see Manning ending up in Seattle. One being the severity of his injury – even if he gets medically cleared to play in 2012, it’s a long shot to assume he can revert back to his old form and a risk I don’t feel this front office or coaching staff will take. The other reason I don’t think Peyton will become a Seahawk is ‘fit’. Manning’s diva attitude and ego are well documented. Pete Carroll has shown if you can’t buy in, you’re out. Ask T.J. (Houshmandzadeh), Lendale White, etc. Quite honestly, I don’t see Manning being willing to do it Pete’s way.”
The injury situation cannot be ignored and while bringing in Manning isn’t considered by many to be a ‘risk’ – it absolutely will be. Signing Peyton means committing to him as the starter. It may be that come the start of free agency, he can’t even be medically cleared to warrant such a commitment. So what do you do? Wait for the guy to recover and potentially miss out on other targets, or take a wild stab in the dark that he’ll ever be able to make a comeback? Carroll and John Schneider have been nothing but decisive so far and it seems unlikely they’d rely on a recovering Manning or take a punt on his health. If the Seahawks are going to add to the position, they’ll make a move that at least comes with a degree of security that provides instant competition.
Secondly – Enyeart is correct when he says Manning has diva qualities. He’s not a locker room cancer or anything – far from it. But Peyton is only used to getting his own way, and dealing with coaches that allow him to have a lot of control. He won’t get that in Seattle. We’ve seen how Indianapolis collapsed without their quarterback and the Seahawks are not looking to rely on any one individual – not now, not in the future. Of course the situation will be slightly different wherever Manning ends up, but he’s still going to want the offense designed to his strengths and limitations. Given Manning’s stature, he’s well within his rights to expect that. Straight off the bat Seattle’s offense will make a seismic shift – the blocking schemes will have to switch, they may have to investigate bringing in some of Peyton’s receivers (eg, free agents Reggie Wayne or Pierre Garcon) and they’ll have to adjust the playbook.
The Seahawks have been building their offense to suit a certain type of quarterback (mobility, downfield passing, point guard) with a certain type of blocking (zone). Everything is designed to work alongside and enhance the running game in several different ways. That plan would have to be adapted significantly to accomodate Manning on a short term basis. Some fans will, not unfairly, exclaim, “But this is PEYTON MANNING, why wouldn’t you change or adapt?” Changing plans for a highly rated rookie or younger, healthier quarterback is one thing. Changing long term plans for an ageing, injured future Hall-of-famer is quite different. Let’s not forget that this team is being built around youth with a longer term vision in place. They aren’t out to find a quick fix and even if fans are unsatisfied with their work to address the quarterback position so far – let’s not forget the inherited situation was far from ideal. A plan is in place to eventually make Seattle great at quarterback for many years to come, not just for however long Peyton Manning can hold up (if at all).
Pete Carroll has built around slogans such as ‘all-in’ and ‘always compete’ – shunning veterans who haven’t bought in and giving playing time to those who are willing to. It’s created a spark, especially on defense. I cannot imagine Manning or Seattle seeing this as an ideal fit. He won’t want to compete, he won’t want to be a cog in the wheel. In Arizona, Manning would have a coach he knows he can work with, the freedom to shape the offense in his image, an elite receiver target and an offensive line which appears primed to be rebuilt and is more open to design. The Cardinals have some history of installing a veteran in the twighlight of his career and getting results. It’s difficult to look beyond the Cardinals for Peyton, even if Miami and Washington also have legitimate interest.
The Seahawks will look at alternatives and like I mentioned – keep an eye on the trade market. This is where Seahawks fans must focus their attention. I expect the front office to address the position, just not in the way people are talking about right now.
Just wondering Rob. With only five picks this year, why give up assets in the trade market over someone like Orton or Campbell? Even Brady Quinn could make some sort of sense as 1-year filler.
I wouldnt want a Vince Young or Garrard though.
Thinking of possible names, it seems like a vet will be added along with a mid-round pick in case TJack goes down again. Hopefully we don’t have any cleveland fiasco any time soon.
So looking at who could be available, it’s hard to see what kind of options are even out there in play. Can’t think of many options outside of Palmer or Gradkowski (tie to Cable)
“A plan is in place to eventually make Seattle great at quarterback for many years to come, not just for however long Peyton Manning can hold up (if at all).”
I’m usually quite able to see the “big pictuer” in things. However, I fail to see what this “plan” is for Seattle. All they’ve done is get Tarvaris Jackson and appear to be watin g for a QB to fall into thweir lap in the draft. It didn’thappen last year, this year, and perhaps not next year. What is this great plan?
Rob…How realistic is a Mark Sanchez trade to Seattle? If so, what would the Jets do for a QB?
Jeff – we currently have six picks, having claimed back our 7th in the Aaron Curry trade. Plus there’s always opportunities to acquire more. Losing a late round pick on a veteran has worked well in the past for this team (Lynch, Washington) so I wouldn’t be too concerned.
seattlesetters – Post lock out, they made the best of a bad situation with Jackson. I still maintain they’ve been unable to address quarterback to date in the draft and I don’t think this year will provide too many better opportunities. I am as frustrated about the situation as everyone else, but I appreciate that in a major rebuild you can’t always get the players you want in the exact order you’d hoped. There’s no exact science here. Seattle’s plan will become clear, but I as a humble blogger cannot reassure anyone here. We have to trust the guys that have so far done a stella job rebuilding this roster.
SeenItAll – I can’t answer that. It depends on what New York can do to replace him I guess, and whether Pete Carroll would be interested in working with Sanchez again.
Interesting article, Rob. You are very vague and mysterious as to the source of your opinion that we will address the position through trade. Is this intentional? Is your opinion informed, and if so, would you like to share how? Or, is it just an educated guess?
It would be disappointing to make a trade that did not involve an upgrade at QB. It’s tough to see what potential trade targets would be worthwhile. Sanchez? I’m guessing the cost would be high, even though Jets fans hate him right now. It does make some sense, though. His cap number is high, however, and the Jets would likely need a QB to replace him, which doesn’t look likely. Matt Cassell? Doubtful. Brian Hoyer? Why not just sign Matt Flynn if that’s the case. I can’t see any other QB really making sense. Other ideas?
I can see us bringing in another “competition qb” as a free agent if we don’t go big. Jason Campbell, Josh Johnson, Vince Young, or Shaun Hill could all fit this bill.
If we don’t go this route and choose to draft someone instead, I’m guessing on Russell Wilson as a low investment choice.
So much obsession about the QB position, but rightly so. We’ve got to get something done soon, otherwise instead of Carroll winning forever, we’ll be mediocre forever.
Man great article i to mee it makes a lot of sense as to what your saying on manning! And I hope its true. As much as I respect manning and how great he is and has been I don’t want the hawks to lose there focus and change the teams offense just for him. We are all in on the zone scheme and our line would struggle mightly if they had to learn a whole new blocking scheme! They need to stick with the zone and what cable does and they will gel this year and the year after.I am very very intrigued by this trade you keep refering to and do believe you and rob as way more credible sources for the hawks then a lot of the big national gurus. Great work guys! Everyone should have faith in this front office and trust they know more then us. If we all know an upgrade is needed I’m sure they do to and are working on it! Franchise qb’sdont grow on trees give it time!
Rob what would it take to get palmer in a trade or denis dixon or the back up in new england? And im asking assuming seattle wont be trading for a starter off of someone elses roster. Do you see any of them as intrest to seattle?
I think Rob is probably spot on when he says PM will most likely not be heading to Seattle. I am also skeptical of Sanchez as I doubt PC & JS see him at the QBOTF. Were I to lay odds I would say that Carson Palmer is the most likely candidate. Oakland is quite anxious to unload him as they seem to finally have a GM that will be allowed to rebuild and CP is too old for that and has way too high of a cap number for Oakland. Not too mention their absolute dearth in draft capital. CP brings the type of QB that Seattle needs and does not have the huge question mark about his health that PM comes with. I could see a 4-6 rounder going to Oakland for him as this would give PC & JS a longer bridge to find the QBOTF.
I am thinking Palmer makes the most sense. The Raiders are in a free-fall and have no need for an aging QB, and I think they will look to trade him for whatever they can get, to gain some draft capital and help their rebuild. I do believe we were in contention to trade for him last year but the combination of the complication of the lockout and asking price from the Bengals made it unrealistic.
However now, we trade for him early, giving up either our 4th or 6th and maybe a conditional pick for the 2013 draft, and have him competing right away with T Jack through a full offseason. I think going into training camp with T Jack, Palmer, Portis, and maybe a rookie would be a decent upgrade at the position, with little cost.
Are you so sure they would give up Palmer for so little after getting annihilated in that trade with Cincy? I’m not. They weren’t that far off from a division title either. It’s not a strong division.
Hey Mike,
I wish I didn’t have to be so vague. All the information I can offer you is in here – that we need to monitor the trade market. I have no names, I’m hiding nothing. I have one source of information that I trust more than any other as he’s been proven correct on many occassions. If you want to know about his track record, this source enabled us to break the Marshawn Lynch trade:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/39523190/ns/sports-player_news/
Gave us the heads up on Seattle’s draft board:
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/source-blaine-gabbert-was-top-qb-on-seattles-board
Also from the article linked above, the Ghostbusters reference was Michael Huey of Texas, eventually signed (and released) by Seattle as an UDFA.
This information:
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/source-last-minute-seahawks-draft-information
Was from the same source, who confirmed the Ruvell Martin signing before it happened too. This source also confirmed weeks in advance of the 2010 draft that Seattle were targetting LT and FS in round one, initially with Eric Berry and Trent Williams as the two targets. However, when Williams’ stock rocketed and Okung’s dipped slightly, they had to adjust.
This source was not at all involved in any of the Carson Palmer talk.
So although it’s only a few short examples, the credentials are there for everyone to see.
Michael – Oakland are desperately trying to move their high earners. They want to rebuild yet have no draft picks. They will look to accumulate more and free up cap space. McFadden, Bush, McClain, Curry, Palmer could all join Routt in leaving. It wouldn’t surprise me if you could get Palmer for something as low as a 5th or 6th rounder. Let’s remember – Oakland’s new GM had nothing to do with that deal. He also knows he has to make a quick impression yet has no draft picks. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Oakland go to town removing a lot of their high earners, then adding Matt Flynn at quarterback (Green Bay connection). Dixon I think might be a free agent (not sure), Brian Hoyer in New England would probably command the same price as Charlie Whitehurst.
Personally, I would prefer TJack over Palmer. Palmer looks like he is close to done. Add that he is a pick fest, and I don’t get the interest. No way Jets part with Sanchez, unless they sign Manning. Even then, they would want something decent in return.
Palmer would make a nice backup, however.
No way palmer loses to TJack in a competition! Maybe less mobile but way more decisive with the ball and pre snap reads blow him outta the water! Maybe he had a lot of picks last year out of frustration with his receivers! Raiders receiving corp is not near as polished as ours! Crazy thought to think tjack is close to pallmers level and then you give him lynch in the backfield palmer would be loving it and play a lot more passionate and be smarter with the ball! Plus oakland sucks ass everyone knows carson wants to play for the hawks and pete he even said it. For a 5th or 6th would be an absolute steal to bridge us for 2 or 3 more years and we would have the most proven and in my opinion best qb in nfc west while we are bridging pending no manning to az anyways!
Good article and insight. I don’t see a viable trade option if we’re looking for an upgrade. For those that think Carson as viable, how is Palmer any different than Peyton when analyzing the offensive playbook? Both are pocket guys. The blocking scheme wouldn’t change no matter who is under center. The zbs (zone) is for running plays. The pass protection would be the same for Peyton or TJack except for the elimination of roll outs if PM was here. I wish I could see their plan or viable trade partners. I see RG3 and a healthy PM as real upgrade options but trust that P&J have an ace up their sleeve instead of the duct tape they’ve used to hold the QB position together with Whitehurst and TJack. I’d prefer they didn’t build a great team minus the QB nucleus only to hand it over to a new coach and gm, who complete the SB puzzle. Their contract year is 2013 or they’ll be lame ducks in 2014. Better figure it out soon guys.
MLT: I politely disagree.
We kill Manning and any rookie QB slow-a-foot. Why are we willing to look the other way with the statue that is Palmer?
PC says ball protection is his #1 key on offense. Palmer was atrocious in that category these past two years. Awful.
Palmer quit on his team two years ago. And that is cool with us?
TJack is tough as nails, with the better arm, may eventually learn to throw to all sides of the field, and is younger with some aspects of mobility.
TJack is tough and has a lot of heart that I don’t disagree with and if we have him next year I won’t be too mad but I don’t see him progessing that much. He has been in this system we run for 6 years now I think it is what it is with him. I agree palmer has been careless the last 2 years but I strongly believe he hasn’t liked his situations. Do you blame him 2 of the worst ran franchises in the nfl cincy and oak. If he feels that all he has to do is protect the ball distribute it smartly and dish it to lynch he would be less inclined to try and make things happen by himself! And besides I want a gunslinger it fits our offense, watching tj hang onto the ball while bmw and miller were wide open was torturous this year. But there is some risk with palmer that I do know, he is aging and has had health concerns but the reward for the next 2 or 3 years would be way higher with him then TJack and I think that’s a risk taking for a cheap price.
Definitely don’t see Manning as a ‘Hawk next year, too many variables to change or adjust due to his limitations. And I definitely don’t see him taking a backseat to “coaching,” Peyton needs an environment where he can call some shots, but not all.
I can’t but think that this has the “Farve to Minnesota” feel all over, conference championship first season, out of playoffs by next. I don’t want that, not for my ‘Hawks.
It’s not worth focusing on names, because we don’t have any. I will say this – Palmer will take less adjustment than Manning schematically. He’s nothing like the injury concern or as immobile as PM and if he was acquired from Oakland, it’d be such a low level, minimum investment that nobody would complain about it or be surprised if he either lost a QB competition or was benched. Brad – zone blocking does translate to pass pro too because of the type of lineman you’re looking at. If I’m signing Manning, I’m immediately going for size and a man scheme to almost put up a wall in front of the QB to give him as much time as physically possible to get the ball out and make sure he’s untouched in the process. Zone is used effectively versus the run, but it also dictates the type of lineman in your scheme. But like I say – there’s no point complaining or disecting options when we know of none.
Not a gunslinger to the likes of favre and cutler but it sure would be nice to see someone have some faith in his arm and let it go then take the sack! If tj has the arm then why doesn’t he trust it and fit it in to tight windows? He will take a sack before he does that and its highly irritating to me! And throwing it outta bounds on 4th down and its a game that means nothing but pride and the last play of the year really killed it for me on him! I would have rather seen an int then a throw away where you know for sure it isn’t going to anyone but the other team on downs?
MLT: I agree on Tjack.
TJack frustrates me beyond repair. Psychologically, I would prefer a slim chance at success on Tannehill at 12 than Palmer or Manning or Flynn.
That said, we gave up more and knew less about Matt Hasselbeck in 2001 than Flynn today. Both the Tannehill and Fynn perspectives bring up the Seattle QB Maturation pendulum. I’ve said this before, but I’m not sure Seattle has the chops to handle a true QB maturation process. Tannehill & Flynn would require said maturation.
So, we continue with retreads.
Look, if Oakland gives up on Palmer for a sixth round draft choice, you have basically bought someone elses problem. To me, Palmer is a coach ‘killer’. If PC fails with Palmer, he loses massive amounts of cred, regardless of cost.
Lastly, PC cannot have it both ways. He cannot tell everyone to “buy in” to Tjack, yet fail to do so himself. He also cannot have such a massive ego himself that he cannot be flexible to bring in Manning.
Retread city. Seattle has a better chance at obtaining 3 first round draft picks in 2013 this April than making their offense better.
Lol I would shit myself if we got 3 1st round picks for next year!! Barkley would be in hawks blue for sure then! I would gladly take another year of tjack or whoever to get barkley! Highly doubt it tho I bet the lottery has better odds:)
Rob,
Great piece.
At 36, moving to a new team and coming off a year-long injury, I think Manning would now be in a place where he no longer needs to be the centerpiece. If “winning” meant learning a new offence, I’m sure he’d be up for it.
As well, an incentive laden contract where we still draft a QB, keep T-Jack and potentially pick up a “franchise” player next year, I think seems like a risk worth taking.
If Manning is willing to come, I don’t see much of a down-side.
Seems like some fans are okay with the Seahawks being the team “where players come to die.” I would rather hire Peyton as quarterbacks coach instead of him playing in the game. The guy is done, and Seattle doesn’t need to be the bane of the NFL and the nation because we chose to take a once huge name and watch him fizzle out in front of us. Why don’t we stay on our upward trajectory and create our own superstars, not exploit them when they wain.
Yeah kinda like when az took warner and everyone said the same thing about him right? I understand other positions but qb is 1 where you just don’t blossom your own star overnight it takes years to work with a young project! Idk about manning but it sure seems like we need a more competant bridge then tj while we are trying to blossom our own guy into a star! And seattle isn’t the place where players come to die? We are the 2nd youngest team in the league how with 1 player would we get that rep and be the bane of the nfl and media?
Rob, thanks for the rather complete answer to my earlier question. I get that it is a delicate balance between divulging too much and not enough. Again, I really appreciate your insight, opinions, and love this site, especially in the offseason.
Do people really think that Oakland would give up Palmer for a 4th or worse when they just gave up a 1st and 2nd for him? I realize that it’s a sunk cost, but still…
Interesting though. Last years Palmer talk (which I buy into–it’s just that the asking price was too high) plus Oakland with a new regime and trying to cut salary (which seems to be the case) could equal a trade for Palmer. Very intriguing.
MLT you bring up quite the case don’t you? Well first of all you are comparing Warner to Manning, who has a pretty serious neck issue that will never fully recover. Sorry man but he will NEVER be the same QB he was before. Period. If that wasn’t the case don’t you think every team in the league would try for him? I agree with your assessment about grooming a rookie qb, but I could bring give you multiple examples of rookies that came in as a teams starter and have done quite well, we just have never had that so I can see why you may say that. I do agree with you though and we could use a good bridge…or really good competition by taking a later round pick and a pick up from a team. We have been notorious for taking STARS at the ends of their careers. Who would you like me to start with? We are just too seduced by a big name to sell tickets or something, but that is all changing since we have PC and JS calling the shots now, so I’m glad we are fixing that issue. Picking up PM will be a mistake, mark my words. Besides he’s not a mobile quarterback, and we are building our team around a quarterback that is more mobile. Honestly I would take Carson Palmer over Peyton Manning anyway. I believe Carson’s issues stemmed more from drama the team was going through. A lot of people like to blame Carson for wanting out but there is probably way more going on in the locker room than we know. If Peyton gets hurt and can’t play ever again and it happens on our watch, we as a team will never hear the end of it. It just happens. Peytons amazing career ends in Seattle. I would never want to hear that headline.
Dave I don’t want peyton I’m just saying everyone wrote Warner off and lot of people were wrong!
Anyway Palmer I’m all for @ the right price. And yes we have bad history with vets I agree I’m also glad you said PC is changing the culture and going young. I totally believe they will get competition for tarvaris PC an JS have a plan and I’m glad most see it here and will have patience to let it develop. This should be a fun year and draft. Next years draft should be even better and we all can move on from qb talk and get our qbotf. Well I hope a anyways.
I see us with tjack again this year, they will draft DL and LB maybe a running back in the later rounds, why waste a draft pick on a medeocre QB that they dont want? Tjack may come around. Yes, he has been around awhile, but he has only been a starting QB for a short portion of his career. The coaching you get as a backup is much differant then the coaching you get as a starter. No i dont think he is the long term solution, I am sure the professional coaching staff knows what they got. But I do believe he can get better and more comfortable with another year under his belt. I Have faith in the direction the seahawks are heading. I would rather wait it out with T-Jack and get a QB we want. not one we hope will work out.
I am not advocating the signing of Manning in a way I hopes he just retires..I do however disagree with your reasoning.
This offense wouldn’t have to change much at all.He played behind a zone blocking system it’s a nonfactor.As far as competing, Manning competes everyday with the Bradys,Marinos,and the Montanas to be the greatest of all time.Jackson is no competition.Mobility is a factor but the WCO is an offense to make plays in the pocket, the rollouts they use are usually ineffective but any QB in the league can roll 10 yds and throw a pass.In my opinion Manning would devour the playbook and go through all the video he needs to come into camp with a better understanding than TJ on how it works..his understanding of passing concepts are already light years ahead of TJs.He is the perfect fit for the WCO.By the end of training camp he would have this Seattle offense running better than it ever ran last year.He just makes players around him better and expects the same work ethic from them.To win the SB your offense will always be dependent on a QB who can make the big plays when you need them whether its a run heavy offense or not.Worst case scenario..he gets hurt and TJ has to play.Thats where we are anyway.
Rob,
First a question about Palmer, who has been mentioned multiple times in the past few weeks. I watched him quite a bit this year, in the interest of looking at Oakland WRs. Palmer looked inaccurate, lacked mobility, and had a lot of “panic” picks. Do you think this was merely the result of being out of football for half a season, borderline bad coaching, and young inconsistent WRs… or the progression of a injury plagued QB with legs, an arm, and on-field presence all in decline? If it was a matter of just a little bit of QB quality pushing us over the edge to the NFC championship, I could see Palmer being a viable option, but on a team that is still in the middle of rebuilding, Palmer seems like a poor investment – other than being able to huck the ball 45 yards, does Palmer offer anything over Hasselbeck? I’d rather try out any number of FAs and possible cheap trade options that haven’t started that fast descent to retirement: Hoyer, Johnson, Sanchez, Orton, and heck, even Campbell. What about you?
Obviously, they’re going to want to look at Brian Hoyer, Carson Palmer, and Mark Sanchez. That’s their style. Though, it does seem ill-advised to give up picks in the middle of this draft when they’re already missing their 5th and middle-round picks can be used this year to acquire young, potentially talented quarterbacks.
Bottom line on Peyton, though: if ‘fit’ and ‘ego’ are reasons not to bring in one of the five best quarterbacks in history as a free agent, it’s the front office with the out of control egos, and they should be fired IMMEDIATELY.
Put me in the “no” column re: Manning. I think a lot of his success in Indy came from his no-huddle, coach-on-the-field kind of offense and while it was very successful with the Colts, I think it would take a few seasons to fully adopt in Seattle or anywhere else he ends up playing. And, at this time in his career, I don’t think he has that many years of productivity left.
If he turns out to be healthy enough to play, could the Jets pull enough strings to get him to join them? The thought of Peyton and Eli playing in the Big Apple is a Publicist’s dream. And, it would free up the Jets to trade Sanchez to the Seahawks. There are lots of “ifs” in this scenario, so it’s probably not going to happen …. but aren’t we all just speculating at this point?
I agree with pacsands. If Pete thinks Peyton being a team leader and on field coach is considered a diva and would usurp pete’s control, then pete’s ego is out of control. How can any hawk fan really want a Carson Palmer, even for a 4th. Palmer has regressed. Lacks mobility, lacks accuracy and his decision making is seriously questionable. He’s a turnover machine and had a solid running game to boot. Fans should really cross him off the list as a viable option. While we’re doing that, cross off sanchez and campbell, too.
Phil, why do you want to trade for Sanchez? What impresses you? I watch a lot of NYJ and am so unimpressed with his hold the ball too long in the pocket, jumpy feet, avg arm and resorting to short checkdowns. I’d be sick if we traded for Sanchez. He wants to be broadway mark but is just an avg QB. what do you see that i’m missing? his age?
More than a few people have stated that it is obvious that TJack has hit his ceiling, and that he will never be any better than he was last year. Then with their next breath I see people saying that an older QB can be really good (Warner), so why not Palmer?
I suppose that beyond the skills, being a good QB requires that the game slows down, and the “good” older QB’s can see the whole field, then use those “skills to hit the open guy.
Manning has always had the ability to see where the throw needs to go, Palmer? I don’t know… I haven’t seen him often enough to know if he has that ability. TJack? I don’t think he has ever had that ability, but… and this is the big question.. Is it possible that with his growth with the team, that he can start seeing more of the field? He should have more time this year with line continuety, so maybe??
I agree that Manning to Seattle smells just like Farve to Minnasota. (Wouldn’t TJack just have a cow? lol)
Carson for a 6th? sure, why not.
The guy I wish I knew more about is Portis. They really just don’t talk about him much, and I don’t know if its just because he is just not too far along, or if they just don’t want anyone to know about him..
I think people are being a little harsh on Palmer. He did not play well in Oakland but throw that out the window. He came in mid season and started right away. What do you expect? Look at how well he was playing in Cincy his last year with his star receivers out. Thats the Palmer Seattle would get with some time to get to know the playbook, better receivers, and not asked to do to much. Hes still play off caliber.
So, based on all this, here are (what I believe) to be the current/most obvious options. Am I missing something?
1. Manning – I think everyone agrees, this isn’t likely to happen.
2. Carson Palmer – Probably can be had for a mid-late round pick.
3. Mark Sanchez – I’m not clear on the trade cost, I would guess a higher pick than Palmer would command.
4. Matt Flynn – Who really knows what he can do. One game wonder or future stud? Thankfully our FO should have far more insight than any of us.
5. QB of whichever team signs Manning, Flynn or RGIII – We’re probably looking at John Beck/ Rex Grossman from WAS, Kevin Kolb from ARI, Matt Moore from MIA.
Out of these names, I think Flynn is going to be at the top of the list (assuming the kid has some skill) We’ve got the legacy connection and that fact he wouldn’t cost a draft pick is what puts him over the top.
Second place IMO would be Sanchez if the cost is a mid-late round pick. Despite what people think of his character, he actually had some respectable stats last year. This may sound crazy, but I think Sanchez would be the best QB in our division. He’d be a huge upside value trade if the cost was low, which we know from experience is appealing to our FO.
Third would probably be Palmer, but I just don’t see our FO going with an older QB with injury history. The goal of the FO has been to make the team young and athletic. Palmer and manning are the opposite of that.
The rest of the lot I don’t see being any better than TJ.
Flynn or Sanchez seem to make the most sense.
Cysco
When someone says they don’t want to panic, they are feeling like they are on the verge of it.
I don’t think “point guard qb” equates to HOFQb in Petes mind. John on the other hand may see it differently. I see a power struggle brewing.
“I would rather wait it out with T-Jack and get a QB we want. not one we hope will work out.”
The problem with this strategy is it’s the supreme definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. What are we “waiting out?” We haven’t been able to get a good young QB in several years, why would be able to get one next year, the year after, the year after that?
The bottom line is, if you’re not drafting first, you cannot call “waiting it out” a “plan.” Heck, even if we were able to land three first-round draft picks next year, if one of them isn’t #1, we probably don’t get Barkley. Teams in need of a QB (which is probably why they’re drafting #1) simply will not trade the pick if a “sure bet” franchise QB is available to them.
We have to look at free agency or a trade or some way to move up for RG3, assuming (again, not a good “plan”) St. Louis does not trade the #2 slot.
Hoping Jackson will improve also does not qualify as “a plan.” T-Jack has been in the league six years … he will not improve.
Taking somebody in rounds 2 – 7 also is not a “plan.” How often do those guys work out?
To me, a “plan” is going for a known commodity veteran or mortgaging the farm for a “can’t miss” prospect. Of course, neither is guaranteed to work out, but history shows these types of players are the most likely to succeed in the NFL.
Sounds like this thread is starting to unravel. STOP PANICKING!! The guys in charge of calling the shots with this team know what they are doing. Chill the ‘ef out people. Peyton or no Peyton, Palmer or no Palmer we will be okay. Does anyone understand the severity of Peyton’s injury? He is never going to be the quarterback he was in the past. Heavily investing in him would be a very unsound option. We would have to reconstruct everything about our team to fit him in. It wouldn’t be about the Seahawks as a young team on the rise anymore, everything would be about Peyton. PROMISE. I don’t want our team, which seems to get either ignored by the media, or written off by the media and the rest of the league to have one of the best QB’s of all time’s career end on our watch. Peyton’s body can not handle much more abuse, and if he does make it back, it will not be for long. I would give NOTHING up for him. I would keep a later round QB and develop them, and suck up the fact that we sit with TJack for one more season. TJack knows he is on the chopping block, he will play better. This is probably his last chance too, I mean what team would pick him up at this point. He is not a bad player, he just needs to work on pocket presence and get his reads down. It wasn’t all his fault either people. IF we invest in a stronger line to protect him, perfect our running game, and give him a little more time to master the playbook, build with the team more, and compete, he will have a better season. WE ARE BUILDING HERE, and sometimes you can’t get desperate or cut corners to come up with a great future team. Sorry to break it to you people but THIS SEASON WILL BE ANOTHER BUILDER.
Nobody has mentioned Matt Moore? i think he is under contract for one more year…so he would have to come via trade from the Dolphins, but he seems the perfect fit for competition with Tjack and holdover until we trade the house for Barkley. I prefer him over any of the aforementioned options. If the Miami grabs Flynn…then it seems that Moore would become available.
“and suck up the fact that we sit with TJack for one more season.”
I agree with everything else you say, Dave. But, the question I would ask is: After sticking with TJack for one more season, what do we do after that?
I can think of no scenario in which sticking with TJack for one more season constitutes a “plan.”
The last time I checked, Tjack is only one guy. The guys around him can, and will, get better. So let’s just chill out and be happy that the Seahawks look to be much better in 2012 than 2011. Most people don’t realize that 2011 could have been a REALLY bad year. Pete and John pretty much threw out a ton of youngsters and we found a really nice setup. There are still issues to be resolved, but other than Franchise QB, what glaring holes do we have?
I think it’s very premature to say Manning will never be the same QB again. There was recently a article about Chris Weinke and how he had the exact same surgery (however he only needed two procedures, whereas Manning has reportedly had four). Weinke had the same nerve damage that Manning now has. Weinke said that it took some time for the regeneration but when he was healthy he could throw just as he always had. Manning will make it back to full health and full arm strength. He has an enormous chip on his shoulder after this whole situaion and now that Eli has more rings then him, that just has to add at least a little fuel to his fire. I doubt that he will have Seattle as his top pick but if he did, the team should do whatever it take to make it happen. Darrell Bevell is what? 40? Peyton Manning could probably teach him a lot about offense. Peyton Manning is probably the smartest man in the NFL and definitely the smartest player (I’m talking about overall intelligence, obviously Ryan Fitzpatrick may have a better SAT score than PM) If he chooses to come to Seattle, he could make it work in whatever fashion they collectively decide, be it buying into and owning the offense as it currently exists with Bevell and Cable or if the coaches accomodate Mannings 3-wide audible heavy offense. And Rob, I believe the colts have always run the zone run blocking scheme. The outside zone stretch was Edgerin James best play for years. So I don’t there would need to be much adjustment at all.
That is correct W.B. Colts have run a ZBS the entire time with PM at the helm. Might have a few different wrinkles than Cables version. Seems like it boils down to is he truly healthy? And is he a good fit for our overall system?
williambryan great points, but I stand by what I say. Peyton’s best years are behind him, and I would rather be in front of the curve instead of behind it. I mentioned earlier Peyton would be more effective as a quarterbacks coach or offensive line coach at this point in his career, but I understand ego, as you mention too, would have a lot to do with him making his comeback. That to me is just selfish, so how could Peyton really “make it work in whatever fashion they collectively decide, be it buying into and owning the offense as it currently exists with Bevell and Cable…?” Your mentality seems more in line with Seattle’s outdated and ineffective philosophy, and I think Seattle is taking strides to moving in a new direction.
Dave, you made a money shot with that last statement about Peyton. He could be at full arm strength and 100% ready to play football but you just don’t know when that inevitable time to wrap a career comes. Everybody just loses that edge at somepoint.
There’s no question he is on the wrong side of the curve, but I think it’s a legitimate question of just how far down the curve is he? IMO, no that far, and still close enough to the top of “the curve” to help the Hawks contend. To the point about ego and making it work and Seattle’s new direction, I don’t think any of that exists in a vacuum and these are human beings with feelings and thought processes that we can’t understand. If Manning wants it bad enough he would do whatever it takes and in some cases that could include surrendering his control over an offense. We don’t know how willing he would be to fit into Bevells and Cable’s offense and although it seems likely he would want no part of it, it isn’t really fair to say. Maybe he would welcome it? Maybe Carroll would welcome Manning bringing his knowledge to the offense? I understand you (Dave) and all of us are only operating under what we know, but I think it is equally important to acknowledge how much we don’t know and how much that could factor into this decision.
Keep in mind that Manning COULD (if healthy) win a SB with this team within one or two years, Just like Warner almost did with AZ a few years ago. And does he have that desire? I would bet he does..
I can’t believe anyone is advocating giving away a draft pick for Carson Palmer over signing Peyton Manning for no draft capital. We are in a great position to sign Peyton whether he is ever healthy or not. We have a lot of cap space available and even if he doesn’t play a snap, we still won’t be at a significant disadvantage as many of our starters are very young on rookie deals. I don’t know what the cost will be for Peyton, it will be high but the injury risk should allow for an escape clause somewhere. If he is the same Peyton Manning then any cost is worth it.
Everything I’ve read about this surgery is that it does not put him at increased risk of getting hurt again but it takes time for the nerves to regenerate which means that his arm strength could be compromised. That would obviously be a problem but as far as I can tell that is the only legitimate problem with signing Peyton Manning.
Tarvaris took lots of sacks last year, particularly in the beginning of the year. I’d be curious to know how many of those he could have avoided by throwing the ball away or by being quicker with his reads. Probably most of them. Our line is starting to figure out the scheme and they looked way better as the season progressed.
All of the talk about egos is ridiculous. Has anyone gotten the impression that Pete has been dead set on one offensive philosophy that his is not willing to change? When Tarvaris started playing better in the no huddle they implemented more no huddle. He also has allowed Cable and Bevell to bring in guys they like and to do the things that they felt were necessary to make the offense better. Pete is all about working with people rather than telling them what to do. You can look to his relationship with Schneider as another example of this. Pete has final say but he trusts his people and does not micro manage them.
Peyton is a coach on the field as some of you have said. Rather than be upset that Peyton is not doing things Pete’s way, Pete is going to look to Peyton for answers to things that are not working. That is the value of a guy like Peyton Manning. You don’t bring in a HOF QB and try to make him into something he is not. You play to his strength as one of the greatest QBs of all time. Is Peyton going to want to have some say over the passing game, of course but I think that will be welcomed by the staff rather than discouraged.
I hope that we do sign Peyton. Then we could use the mid round pick on a guy like Osweiler or Cousins and develop them. If they don’t pan out we grab another QB next year and so on. You may think I’m taking crazy pills but I believe that we will win the Super Bowl next year if Peyton Manning is under center. The team I saw toward the end of last year with that nasty defense and powerful running game has that potential with Manning.
Sign him up Billy Showbiz…
Appologies for the lack of replies today – I’ve been away with work all day at just arrived home at 3am. I’ll make sure on Wednesday to keep up the discussion prior to this week’s updated mock.
seattlesetters / williambryan – I’m in!
Anyone who denigrates a quick super bowl appearance to keep the “orderly structure of rebuilding” is insane.
Life happens NOW! Winning happens NOW! Ya’all waiting for that next QBOTF, dude… he is 36 years old with a neck problem. May play one, two years.
No one will give a shiat if you win big.
So, let’s look at why not:
1) cost draft picks: No
2) costs lots of money: yeah – but we have near 40M in available cash… spend it on a two year deal
3) Not the future: And Tarvaris is?
4) Not part of the plan: right now this plan has a really shiat ending.
5) Ego: Give me a break. If PC cannot win with Manning, he cannot coach
I worry for Rob. He is adamant PM will not sign here. Lots at stake.
Michael (clt) you’re pretty dumb dude, just thought you should know…
LOL. Fair enough. Come by my house. I doubt it would look dumb to you.
Differences of opinion exist. If that reflects intelligence to you, fair enough.
I giggle at these types of comments. Thanks for the enjoyment.
Cheers!
Peyton would want at least $10 million per year guaranteed. Not to mention incentives. Thanks, but no thanks.
My friends, 10 million is: wait for it…. exactly 25% of the Seahawks 2012 cap room. How is this a no-go for you. This type of crazy shiat wins championships. Oh yeah!
Here is the downside: If we suck, we suck for Barkley. “BITE FOR BARKLEY – 2013!”
if Manning rocks. Who, dude… get out your parade stuff… time to party.
if we suck. Bite for Barkley. Win/Win, babeh!
you guys are better with Paul Allen’s money than Paul himself. Amazing.
Michael CLT, I’m just going to have to disagree with you for sake of argument. Too many things to ignore.
“1) cost draft picks: No”
False. Signing Manning would require Seattle to provide some form of compensation to Indianpolis (same as when we signed Robert Gallery and Zach Miller). Huge compensation? No.
“costs lots of money: yeah – but we have near 40M in available cash… spend it on a two year deal”
What makes you think he only wants a 2 year daeal? He isn’t coming without some form of true commitment – guaranteed money. The more we spend on him, the less likely we can help fill voids in other places- essentially what happened in Indi. The team was built solely around Manning. That is not what we need.
3) “Not the future: And Tarvaris is?”
Tarvaris isn’t going to cost a fortune should he get hurt or not play well. $4 million this year? Pocket change. Peyton will, mark my words, WILL require $10 million/year GUARANTEED to sign a contract with the Seattle Seahawks. If my QB is getting top $$$, he better play like it.
“Not part of the plan: right now this plan has a really shiat ending.”
Sadly this statement is desperation cloaked in loyalty. Why? You ever watch the Steelers of the 90’s? They consistently won games with a run the ball and play defense attitude. Yes, they needed Big Ben to final win the big ones, but is it a coincidence that the teams with true dynasties- 80’s Niners, early 2000’s Pats, 90’s Cowboys- they all were studs on defense, they could all pound the football- and yes, they all had “their guy” at QB. They were not self centered around the QB.
“Ego: Give me a break. If PC cannot win with Manning, he cannot coach”
Now I’m confused. If Manning comes here, and we don’t win, it’s all Pete’s fault? Maybe Peyton just won’t be the guy he once was? It seems your argument is centered around Peyton being God, and that everyone else and their principles are inferior. Manning got his way in Indi for years- and for as good as they were, they were simply that. Good, but very rarely truely great.
Is Tom Brady better than Peyton? Hell no. But Belichick built his team around a viscious front 7 and brutal secondary in the early 2000’s. They handed the ball off to Kevin Faulk and Antoine Smith and Corey Dillon, turned that defense loose and asked Tom to make the plays that were there. (Granted he led them to several game winning drives. Their philosophy on football was still the same). And they won. Theydestroyed Peyton and his Colts year in and year out.
Make the team better and add the QB when the time is correct. Draft a Brock Osweiler in round 2 and let him compete for the job this year. If he flames out, well we didn’t invest much of anything- move on. Go get a Barkley next year or a Tyler Wilson (if he looks to be FQB material, early reports indicate he will).
If the right deal can be had for Manning, should the Seahawks make a play for him? ABSOLUTELY! I totally agree that Manning, back in form, could make us the instant contender in the NFC. Could. If his neck is ok. If we change our entire offensive scheme to suit him. And if we change the blocking scheme to make sure no one gets near him. And if he we sign Pierre Garcon or Austin Collie or Dallas Clark. If. If. If.
Is the world going to end if he doesn’t? Nope. I firmly believe this team is going to have a winning season in 2012 (barring injuries and factors unknowst yet) even with Tarvaris jackson at the helm. I absolutely believe that with all things considered.
Pete and John need to address the QB situation and soon. Wecan’t doddle forever with the TJacks of the world. But in my humble opinion, I’d rather watch a promising team be held back by lack of a franchise QB, than watch a franchise QB be destroyed by lack of everything else around him. Hoping an aging vet still has it, or can rekindle it, is a foolish move for such a young team.
Colin just sent someone to school! Thanks for the sound argument Colin. The only area Seattle has and is getting grief for is the QB spot. If we take on that position by bringing in a risky project like PM and he fails, we will NEVER hear the end of it. Would rather take that risk on a second round than a high profile player trying to make a comeback.
Colin, you’re incorrect. The hawks would not have to provide compensation to the colts! where did you get that idea? Irsay doesn’t come up with what $28mm by Mar 8, then PM is a free agent. Plus, the Hawks didn’t give Oakland any compensation for those free agent signings. The hawks weren’t going to net out any free agent loss comp, so the additions of gallery and miller did not cost draft compensation, only financial. Where did you come up with those ideas?
I’m not sure where this figure of $40m cap room has come from. I’m under the impression Seattle has only $16m worth of cap room prior to cuts and re-signings.
Rob, John Clayton reported $35 million in cap space for the Hawks for 2012. Apparently that matches up with Bryan McIntyre’s estimates. To get to $40 million, I assume they’re counting on Trufant getting cut. See http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/2/14/2797451/nfl-salary-cap-space-seahawks-bucs-jaguars-bengals
Brad Q: you ask: “Phil, why do you want to trade for Sanchez? What impresses you? I watch a lot of NYJ and am so unimpressed with his hold the ball too long in the pocket, jumpy feet, avg arm and resorting to short checkdowns. I’d be sick if we traded for Sanchez. He wants to be broadway mark but is just an avg QB. what do you see that i’m missing? his age?”
I’m drawn to Sanchez, Palmer, Cassel, and even Leinart because they all were coached by Carroll and he is more familiar with what they could bring to the Seahawks than is the case with some of the other QBs whose names I’m reading. I don’t think that he would proceed with a trade for Sanchez, or for any of these guys that used to play for him, if he didn’t think they had what he was looking for. How many other head coaches in the NFL have the perspective that he has — where he is intimately familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of these guys, not just the physical abilities, but how they can read defenses and how they can interact with their team mates?
You are correct Brad. I forgot it is the league that hands out compensatory picks, not the actual team. My mistake.
Here’s what Schneider says about his ideal QB:
“What is the perfect quarterback?” he asked. “You have to think it’s a guy that first of all has a presence about him and can tilt the room or tilt the field his way. It’s somebody that is smart, poised, tough, can move. A guy that can make quick decisions. And somebody that the rest of the guys in the locker room can look at and say, ‘Hey, that’s the guy. That’s the guy we’re going to be able to go win games with.’ “
Sounds a lot like Cousins to me….
Rob,
The Seahawks have about $20 million unused cap space last year that’s allowed to be added to this year. $20 mil plus original $16 mil this year plus cutting Trufant will give $40 mil cap room. I am not sure PC/JS will use all the cap room though. My understanding is that teams are allowed (within limits) to keep rolling unused cap space to future years. The Seahawks will need all the cap room 2 years from now to re-sign Thomas, Chancellor, Browner, Baldwin, etc.