The Seahawks FO managed to build a perennial contender by drafting well. They had their shares of misses and busts but overall they cam ahead of the pack.
The more i have learned about this draft class, I have no doubt that the Seahawks will leave this draft with a lot of valuable talent. With so many options available in the first 2 days, it feels like shooting fish i a barrel. I was very excited to see what we end up with.
But, in the last week, I am beginning to look at this draft class differently. There are so many great looking fish in the barrel that every other NFL team will get better with the players we do not pick. The infusion of top talent, especially in the back seven on defense will upgrade many rosters. Most of them had greater needs then we do.
It is turning into a crucial draft to nail spectacularly. Anything less and while we may celebrate improving our roster with all the talent we got, other teams will improve as much and possibly more. Nailing this draft goes beyond the objective value of the picks, we need to do subjectively better than the rest of the pack.
In other words, it will not be enough to get a great player, we’ll need him to be greater (for us) than the players picked by other teams at that range of the draft.
It will call for a lot of strategy and planning to maximize the overall yield from this draft beyond other teams.
Asked about so many one year deals, he pointed out a couple interesting things:
– Cap considerations (I suppose meaning you leave yourself a lot of flexibility moving forward)
– A lot of players still without a deal in FA whose agents have good relationship with Seattle FO actually reach out to Seattle. (he mentions this was the case with McDougald) You want guys who really want to play for your team.
– Seattle’s coaching staff is a recruiting tool as well: guys want to come work with them for a year to boost their value. They know the atmosphere is fun too.
– Win/win for team and player: if a player takes off in our system, he either gets paid by us or by another team, which then results in comp. picks.
All kind of stuff we knew, but cool to see it affirmed by JS.
“I think it’s just more of a situation where we were at from a cap standpoint and guys who were interested in playing for us and being able to—Coach Carroll and his staff do such a great job of coaching these guys up, and I think people realize we have a pretty intense but fun atmosphere too, and Seattle’s a great place to play,” Schneider said. “People want to play in front of the 12s. So it’s just one way to recruit a guy, like, ‘Look, you can come here, try to take off and hopefully you can stay with us, or you’re going to be moving on somewhere else because we’re not going to be able to afford you.’ And if that happens, you have to look at the whole compensatory system.”
Trevor
I love the JS interviews! He is so straight forward about things. None of the double talk you get from most GMs.
Sea Mode
The comments by JS yesterday helped clear up a lot of things. I don’t think they will take two CBs with the first two picks, but I do think they would take 2 S/CB hybrids with the first two picks.
LESS THAN A MONTH LEFT UNTIL THE DRAFT!!!
R1P26- Obi Melifonwu, Connecticut
4-5-2 is the clear way to go, and this guy can play all over the field according to matchup, without leaving a weakness vs. the run. Can even line up at SAM on occasion. There’s only one of him, so sit tight at 26 and take him. Safety-needy teams like Dallas are lurking…
*Trade up
Use R3P102 to move up into mid R2.
R2P44- S Justin Evans, Texas A&M
One of the most “Seahawky” guys in the draft. Super athletic and hits hard. Missed tackles by over-eagerness are an issue, but that can be coached (like with Earl). He can play both safety spots and Buffalo too with Obi at RCB if the matchup dictates. Long term, can take over either Safety spot (likely SS) and will help put the “Boom” back in LOB.
Look out for his pro day here in a couple hours. If Evans goes early R2, Marcus Maye is the fallback target, perhaps avalable even at R2P58.
R3P90- WR Chris Godwin
The offense needs one more weapon. He has the size and strength to excel in the short passing game and the speed and ball-tracking/concentration to be a legit deep threat off play action, which hopefully becomes Seattle’s bread and butter again with a revamped OL, healthy RBs and healthy Wilson. Paul Richardson is in a contract year and has to prove he can stay healthy and produce. Even if he does, we need a hedge in extension talks and will likely move on from Kearse next year as well. Also insurance in case Lockett has any setbacks in his recovery.
*Trade down
Seattle trades R3P106 for a R4 and R5 pick. I’m against it in theory due to the low hit rate on day 3 over the last 4 years, but they always do it and having traded up earlier makes it necessary this time. (plus, it sucks to write a mock draft about just 6 guys… 😉 )
R4- CB Jeremy Cutrer
The fact that they have Lane, Desir, Thorpe, Elliot, and even McDougald in play at RCB allows them to stay out of the CB rush early on (besides the hybrids), and find value in a guy that would go higher in other drafts. It’s tough for any rookie to start at CB for the Hawks, so opting to add a developmental guy to Pete’s CB factory instead of looking for an immediate starter makes sense. He’s got the length, adverse backstory, and grit vs. run that they covet, just needs a year to bulk up and learn technique.
R5- TE George Kittle, Iowa
I’m jumping on the bandwagon of a guy that has been pointed out by V12 and almost immediately loved by a lot of commentors. With his blocking abilities, he replaces B. Williams on ST and bookends with Vannett in jumbo packages. Looks to me like he has the frame to add 15 lbs as well. His pro day numbers were incredible.
R6- NT Glen Antoine, Idaho
One of the few true nose tackles in the draft. Love his strength, violence, and gap control on tape.
Mebane: 6011, 309, 5.19 40yd, 4.65 SS, 7.94 3C, 24 vert, 8’10” broad, 24 bench
Antoine: 6005, 337, N/A* 40yd, 4.77 SS, 8.33 3C, 30 vert, 8’07” broad, 37 bench
*didn’t run 40 due to a heel injury.
R7- SS Yamen Sanders, Montana
Another guy to develop behind Kam and a hedge if he leaves next year.
He looks the part and I liked his tape enough to take a late-round swing on him. Seattle was there at Montana pro day working out DE Caleb Kidder, but they might have been keeping an eye on Sanders as well.
UDFA
– Small slot CB as alternate for matchups: CB Xavier Coleman (Portland St.)
– MLB depth/ST: Dylan Cole (Missouri State)
– Athletic OL project: Andrew Eide (BYU) TEF monster, former DL convert, already played in ZBS.
-OW/slot project: Taquan Mizzell (Virginia) / WR Riley McCarron (Iowa) / WR Keevan Lucas (Tulsa)
– QB competition for Boykin: C.J. Beathard (Iowa) is dang athletic at least.
I think it’d be a big surprise if they go that way with their first two picks
Sea Mode
Maybe you’re right. I do see Obi as CB though, following a big WR into the slot if the matchup dictates. And we wouldn’t have much of a hedge in negotiations with Kam or backup at both S spots that Evans could provide.
Them meeting with Obi at least 3 times already has me wondering whether they are just really interested or if they might have doubts about his mental makeup and fit in the locker room. We only see the athleticism, but if he turns out not to be a fit, then trade down a bit for R4+R5 and take Justin Evans and then trade up in R2 to take Evan Engram. I was really bothered by not finding a way to get Engram anyway.
I can see the Obi pick at 26 but I really can’t see them going back to back Safety picks.
They have Kam, Earl, Mcdougal (who JS is clearly high on) on the roster if you add 2 safeties with picks #1, #2 where do they all play?
East Side Stevie
Chris Godwin won’t be there at 90
George Kittle wont last to the 5th round
CJ Beathard will be drafted before the 7th round his tape is too good to go undrafted
DLep
Yeah, I really like both Godwin and Kittle and think it would be great if we drafted them, but a third and a fifth will be too late.
Hawktalker
Some quality feedback on the mock already. Thanks for the mock, love them.
My only other player specific comment is that from the great plays only highlight video on Evans, he was one of my my favorite hammering safety options as well. However, after watching a good deal of game tape on him, I saw him standing around quite a bit, look to lost quite a bit and whiffed on a higher than expected number of tackles. Didn’t appear to have the general sense of anticipation or nose for the ball that the highlight tape would lead you to believe he had. After watching this and the tape on Maye, Mays is my clear preference.
Sea Mode
My pleasure, Hawktalker, and I truly enjoy the feedback and learn from it.
The knock on Maye is that he looks great coming downhill from the safety position, but can he consistently turn and run in deep coverage as well? V12 also commented a while back he doesn’t look so hot in zone coverage, and I think there is something to that as well.
Don’t get me wrong, I like him too. Both he and Evans have points to work on, but both have sky-high potential as well.
One thing I am grateful to have learned from a recent discussion with Rob on Adoree Jackson is that one has to watch the tape not just analyzing the player as he is in that system, but what he would look like if plugged into our system and given a role he thrives at. That is a tough part of scouting and something I am still trying to learn.
For example, they saw what Kam could become when they drafted him, but at the beginning, they told him all they wanted him to do was be physical. And he thrived in that as he learned the rest. I think Evans (or Maye) could take a similar path. Adoree Jackson as well. How great could he be with Earl Thomas behind him so that he can just press and use his quickness to attack the ball from the slot?
Sea Mode
Earl FS
Kam SS
Obi RCB
Evans Buffalo
McDougald depth at all positions and splits time with Evans. He is only here on a 1-year deal and Kam would have a ton of leverage if we have nobody else on the roster. Plus, injuries happen. McDougald is the new Kelcie McCray.
McDougal is a lot more than the new Kelcie McCray. I think he’ll see the field a lot this season.
Nick
I really like where Sea Modes head is at. I’m going to add a couple of notes:
-With one of our first two picks, we will draft a DB that also is a returner. For me, I’m looking at Jabrill Peppers, Tre White, and Adoree Jackson.
-Tre White makes the most sense to pair with Obi. We could conceivably move up to that 44th pick and get him. This way, you not only add a big CB/SS in Obi, but you also draft a returner and the long term replacement for Lane (which is probably needed after this year).
-If they miss out on Obi, then Adoree Jackson makes a lot of sense. Sea Mode is right: I think Justin Evans or Marcus Maye then becomes the SS pick in the second round.
-The real wildcard position in my eyes is TE. They are obviously constructing a very young, very cheap offense around Russell and adding a stud TE in the first two rounds (Engram, Njoku, Butt) would allow them to not have to overpay for an older Jimmy Graham.
Jason
Curious what your guys thoughts are now on Demarcus Walker and what round he would be available. I can’t find much discussion on him in the national media.
He’s been totally anonymous. Didn’t go to the Senior Bowl. Didn’t do anything at the combine. Seemingly didn’t do anything at the FSU pro-day. Have to question why and his stock is sinking as a consequence.
Ishmael
Rob, just on that play you mentioned with Jackson chasing Alabama RB down… First thing that came to mind was from a rugby game years back, James O’Connor against Ireland -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT9tNJdiQ2E
I LOVE plays like that. I realllyyy want Jackson. He’s got ‘it’ in spades.
It’s an amazing play by Adoree’. Just never gave up. I saw him make three tackles like that watching his tape, chasing down a lost cause and saving a TD.
Nick
I remember watching that match (lived in Oz for nine years). One of O’Connor’s best moments as a Wallaby.
Ishmael
Yep. One of the single greatest wastes of talent I’ve ever seen.
Will have to track down this tape of Jackson. Just can’t not think the arms will be a dealbreaker for PCJS unfortunately.
CHawk Talker Eric
@bobcondotta:
Carroll floats idea of Fant sitting and learning for a while behind Joeckel but says long-term expectations for Fant remain high.
A very interesting note because it only opens up the possibility of adding a guard early to compete with Glowinski and Aboushi if Joeckel ends up at tackle.
bigten
Rob- what are your thoughts on pat elflien from Ohio State as a round 3 guard prospect that could also back up center and be a leveraging chip next year?
Was never much of a fan to be honest. And at the combine he was one of the worst testers in terms of explosive traits. So minimal upside to get progressively better.
CHawk Talker Eric
It does lead one to think Joeckel is a one-year rental, especially if he plays his way into a big contract next year.
Also compels me to reevaluate my earlier opinion that the interest in Lamp was merely a smokescreen.
I think it opens up the flexibility to go OL early if the opportunity arises. If Lamp is there, they can work him into the line-up. If they go for Asiata, Moton or Siragusa, likewise, albeit in R2-3.
CHawk Talker Eric
Good point. I still have a hard time imagining they’d pass on Obi or King if either are available.
Also, this makes me think they won’t focus on LB early, or rather, they’ll look at OL before LB on Day 2:
@bobcondotta: Carroll says he thinks free agent emphasis on linebacker has paid off to make it most competitive group Seahawks have had in a few years.
Ed
I really hope they get 2 DB with first 2 picks and at least 3 of first 5 picks DB. Kam probably not resigned, Sherman has worn out his welcome and will probably be gone after 2017, Shead is out for all of 2017 and Thomas is in rehab and has talked about retirement.
1st S (Baker)
2nd CB (Douglas)
3rd OL (Asiata)
3rd CB (Griffin)
3rd S (Luani)
East Side Stevie
Sherm has not worn out his welcome???
A player who wore out his welcome was Christine Michael, thats an example of a player wearing out their welcome in Seattle. Sherm is nowhere near that circumstance.
Ed
Close. 2 years ago, PC and JS would have laughed at the thought of trading Sherman and slammed the door on the idea. Now they say they take all calls and never said no to it. Will they ever say he has worn out his welcome, no. What they aren’t saying is saying more than what they are. Just my 2 cents.
East Side Stevie
Any GM in the league will listen to any deal and there’s nothing wrong with listening because there’s a lot of teams that will overspend when it comes to trades or free-agent signing’s. There’s nothing wrong with him listening that doesn’t mean Shermans worn out his welcome. If someone called up the Houston Texans and said they will give them three first-round draft picks and two second round draft picks for JJ Watt, the GM’s going to listen weather he accepts the trade or not idk but thats no different than john listening to trade propositions for Sherman. Doesn’t mean anything till pen touches paper and Agents get involved.
Ed
Agreed. But as I said, PC and JS would have laughed it off. Same thing about JJ Watt and Tom Brady. Nobody calls because it’s a non starter. Same thing with Sherman 2 years ago. Now they say they listen to all calls. It’s a change. Not saying it will happen, but it’s a possibility that wasn’t there a year ago.
mishima
Not sure why Carroll thinks Joeckel is an improvement on Fant. What you gain in experience, you lose in athleticism. Joeckel will get eaten alive at LT.
Bill
I was thinking of a scenario in which the Seahawks might draft Sidney Jones.
For the same reason New Orleans might want to trade out of the number 32 spot (money, commitment of 1st round) the Seahawks might want to trade down to there. Besides picking up an extra pick(s) later, they would get an extra year of contract control that would help mitigate the time needed for Jones to recover from his injury.
Bill
The flaw in this reasoning is New Orleans would want to move up for someone.
HI Hawk
They might move up for an OL. Especially since they’d see Seattle as a threat to take one. Robinson and Lamp could be available and attractive to New Orleans, they started Jahri Evans at RG last year afterall.
Bill
If King is off the board I would like to see this happen. Lately there have been a few 1st round picks lost for the season with training camp injuries, at least that wouldn’t happen with Sidney Jones 🙂
Sea Mode
Seahawks GM John Schneider said he’s been in touch with Scott McCloughan, but McCloughan has other opportunities he’s exploring right now and there’s no plans at this time for him to rejoin Seattle.
Sheil Kapadia, ESPN
Ed
PC admitted teams have called about Sherman. Interesting, really seems like they are open to it and some what tired of his antics. While NO has been the team initially brought up, really think if this happens he gets sent to an AFC team.
HI Hawk
I didn’t hear Pete mention anything about being tired of his antics, nor has anyone in the organization mentioned anything like that. John Schneider said they listen to everything, and didn’t shut the door on a potential Sherman trade, but it doesn’t sound like they are actively shopping him. Pete’s comments actually indicate that Sherman is unlikely to go anywhere. He said that he expects him to stay with the Seahawks, but also didn’t shut the door on it since there’s no need to.
Ed
You don’t have to say it. People use to ask PC a few years back and he always laughed it off and slammed the door on any trade possibilities. It’s not what he said, it’s what he didn’t say. Like he said (JS), they are listening. Late 1, early 2, I would say lose the big contract and big ego.
Shadow
Are they willing to move Sherman? Probably. Is it going to take more than anyone is likely to offer us in order to move Sherman? Also probably.
There is probably a price point where the team would seriously consider dealing Richard Sherman. I doubt that anyone is going to offer that much for him. And regardless of whether or not they tired of Sherman’s off-field issues last year, Sherman’s ability and the uncertainty surrounding much of the rest of the secondary mean that the team isn’t going to get rid of him without getting ample compensation in return.
Sherman’s not going anywhere any time soon.
HI Hawk
I don’t know if that’s true. John says all the time they get into every trade out there to see what it’s all about. I don’t think this has really come up before. I don’t remember many other rumored trades involving Seahawks players during the Pete and John era.
Also, you want to lose the big contract and big ego, but I think you are undervaluing the big talent and big leader part.
sdcoug
Teams rarely announce they are actively shopping someone; typically a horrible negotiating tactic and potentially results in bad blood from the player being shopped (if no trade is consummated). But through a few leaks, they have clearly let all 31 teams know they will listen without having to say it themselves. While they are probably content with a Sherman-led secondary in ’17, they may be happy to move on from his antics. Above all, protect the team. Sherman is perilously close to stepping over that line with his coach rants. And what better year to move on (if a value trade presents itself), when you can reload with a strong DB draft class. In my opinion, for as good as Sherman has been, we likely have already seen his best.
Ed
BINGO
HI Hawk
We have seen his best, but it’s not like there’s a better CB in the NFL right now. I am not anywhere near ready to move on from the best CB in the NFL, especially when the second best CB on the roster is out for at least half the season and only signed for one year. He isn’t replaceable, it’s really that simple for me.
Ed
Wouldn’t force it, but I would be open to it. HIs contract expires in 2019 and I don’t think the Hawks can afford to give him a 3rd.
Going to be interesting the next two years with all the big names probably not seeing 2nd or 3rd contracts. Britt and Clark would be the only solid yes unless way out of price range. Kam and Graham gone next year would add $18 million
Britt 2018
Joekel 2018
Richardson 2018
Lacy 2018
Kam 2018
Shead 2018
Graham 2018
Sherman 2019
Thomas 2019
Avril 2019
Clark 2019
Wright 2019
Overtime
I understand the love for all of these DB’s but the Hawks are not likely to draft 3 or 4 of them. We have several All Pro players in that position group. Looking at prior drafts, they tend to spread their picks around. You have to have a roster spot for these guys and reps in training camp. All reports are they like Elliott, Thorpe and Pierre Desir. Jeremy Lane is getting paid $5.25M and has a $7.7M dead cap hit if he is cut. He isn’t going anywhere and certainly is going to play. Shead will be back mid season. McDougald checks a lot of boxes as the third Safety. I cannot see more than 2 rookies making the 53 man roster at DB. They might even see extra value in Sidney Jones just because he can be red shirted on the NFI list.
Other places we need help: OL, TE, QB2, DT, WR. LB
They don’t have any safety depth apart from McDougald and they’re weaker at CB than they’ve been in a long while.
3-4 picks in a full draft class isn’t a big stretch either. A year ago they selected three offensive linemen for example. I think 3-4 picks at DB this year is quite a modest suggestion really given the talent and depth available.
Ed
Agree (and hope) with you Rob.
Sherman (2 years left on contract, probably won’t get a 3rd if he stays)
Kam (contract expires)
Thomas (coming off of injury and talked about retirement)
Lane (terrible last year so could be his last year here)
Shead (probably out for 9/10 of year and on a 1 year deal)
The LOB will all be gone in 2019 (my opinion), so strike while the iron is hot and this draft class if full of potential Hawk DBs.
East Side Stevie
Everyone head up to the Sports illustrated Twitter account they have a three round mock draft that just posted this morning pretty realistic mock draft. I like the pics they had Seattle taking. Looks like it was Chris Burke who did the writing, I didnt really agree with how he selected his top 10 but it is different from all the other marks so it offers a refreshing read.
Bill
Link?
East Side Stevie
Mocks*
East Side Stevie
I don’t know how to share the link just go to Twitter and go to Sports Illustrated’s account you can’t miss it.
Your thoughts on the mock Rob? In My opinion certain areas of the mock look realistic and good for us if it were to fall that wat while some of the areas I shake my head at because theres no way players go that early or in some cases that late. The only question I have is taking tyus in round two, not that I don’t think that’s a good value or he could go that early but, rather the fact that we just signed three linebackers in free agency. Do you think that is realistic that we could draft Bowser in round two? I wouldn’t mind him at all just don’t know if they’ll want to spend that early of a pick on linebacker now the way free agency unfolded.
Like most mocks there are things that make sense and other things I’ll disagree with. I like some of the guys Seattle takes but not 100% sold they’ll be the guys they get or desire.
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The Seahawks FO managed to build a perennial contender by drafting well. They had their shares of misses and busts but overall they cam ahead of the pack.
The more i have learned about this draft class, I have no doubt that the Seahawks will leave this draft with a lot of valuable talent. With so many options available in the first 2 days, it feels like shooting fish i a barrel. I was very excited to see what we end up with.
But, in the last week, I am beginning to look at this draft class differently. There are so many great looking fish in the barrel that every other NFL team will get better with the players we do not pick. The infusion of top talent, especially in the back seven on defense will upgrade many rosters. Most of them had greater needs then we do.
It is turning into a crucial draft to nail spectacularly. Anything less and while we may celebrate improving our roster with all the talent we got, other teams will improve as much and possibly more. Nailing this draft goes beyond the objective value of the picks, we need to do subjectively better than the rest of the pack.
In other words, it will not be enough to get a great player, we’ll need him to be greater (for us) than the players picked by other teams at that range of the draft.
It will call for a lot of strategy and planning to maximize the overall yield from this draft beyond other teams.
Here’s a link to transcript of at least parts of JS press conference yesterday:
http://www.seahawks.com/news/2017/03/28/seven-things-we-learned-seahawks-general-manager-john-schneider-nfl-annual-meetings
Asked about so many one year deals, he pointed out a couple interesting things:
– Cap considerations (I suppose meaning you leave yourself a lot of flexibility moving forward)
– A lot of players still without a deal in FA whose agents have good relationship with Seattle FO actually reach out to Seattle. (he mentions this was the case with McDougald) You want guys who really want to play for your team.
– Seattle’s coaching staff is a recruiting tool as well: guys want to come work with them for a year to boost their value. They know the atmosphere is fun too.
– Win/win for team and player: if a player takes off in our system, he either gets paid by us or by another team, which then results in comp. picks.
All kind of stuff we knew, but cool to see it affirmed by JS.
“I think it’s just more of a situation where we were at from a cap standpoint and guys who were interested in playing for us and being able to—Coach Carroll and his staff do such a great job of coaching these guys up, and I think people realize we have a pretty intense but fun atmosphere too, and Seattle’s a great place to play,” Schneider said. “People want to play in front of the 12s. So it’s just one way to recruit a guy, like, ‘Look, you can come here, try to take off and hopefully you can stay with us, or you’re going to be moving on somewhere else because we’re not going to be able to afford you.’ And if that happens, you have to look at the whole compensatory system.”
I love the JS interviews! He is so straight forward about things. None of the double talk you get from most GMs.
The comments by JS yesterday helped clear up a lot of things. I don’t think they will take two CBs with the first two picks, but I do think they would take 2 S/CB hybrids with the first two picks.
LESS THAN A MONTH LEFT UNTIL THE DRAFT!!!
R1P26- Obi Melifonwu, Connecticut
4-5-2 is the clear way to go, and this guy can play all over the field according to matchup, without leaving a weakness vs. the run. Can even line up at SAM on occasion. There’s only one of him, so sit tight at 26 and take him. Safety-needy teams like Dallas are lurking…
*Trade up
Use R3P102 to move up into mid R2.
R2P44- S Justin Evans, Texas A&M
One of the most “Seahawky” guys in the draft. Super athletic and hits hard. Missed tackles by over-eagerness are an issue, but that can be coached (like with Earl). He can play both safety spots and Buffalo too with Obi at RCB if the matchup dictates. Long term, can take over either Safety spot (likely SS) and will help put the “Boom” back in LOB.
Look out for his pro day here in a couple hours. If Evans goes early R2, Marcus Maye is the fallback target, perhaps avalable even at R2P58.
R3P90- WR Chris Godwin
The offense needs one more weapon. He has the size and strength to excel in the short passing game and the speed and ball-tracking/concentration to be a legit deep threat off play action, which hopefully becomes Seattle’s bread and butter again with a revamped OL, healthy RBs and healthy Wilson. Paul Richardson is in a contract year and has to prove he can stay healthy and produce. Even if he does, we need a hedge in extension talks and will likely move on from Kearse next year as well. Also insurance in case Lockett has any setbacks in his recovery.
*Trade down
Seattle trades R3P106 for a R4 and R5 pick. I’m against it in theory due to the low hit rate on day 3 over the last 4 years, but they always do it and having traded up earlier makes it necessary this time. (plus, it sucks to write a mock draft about just 6 guys… 😉 )
R4- CB Jeremy Cutrer
The fact that they have Lane, Desir, Thorpe, Elliot, and even McDougald in play at RCB allows them to stay out of the CB rush early on (besides the hybrids), and find value in a guy that would go higher in other drafts. It’s tough for any rookie to start at CB for the Hawks, so opting to add a developmental guy to Pete’s CB factory instead of looking for an immediate starter makes sense. He’s got the length, adverse backstory, and grit vs. run that they covet, just needs a year to bulk up and learn technique.
R5- TE George Kittle, Iowa
I’m jumping on the bandwagon of a guy that has been pointed out by V12 and almost immediately loved by a lot of commentors. With his blocking abilities, he replaces B. Williams on ST and bookends with Vannett in jumbo packages. Looks to me like he has the frame to add 15 lbs as well. His pro day numbers were incredible.
R6- NT Glen Antoine, Idaho
One of the few true nose tackles in the draft. Love his strength, violence, and gap control on tape.
Mebane: 6011, 309, 5.19 40yd, 4.65 SS, 7.94 3C, 24 vert, 8’10” broad, 24 bench
Antoine: 6005, 337, N/A* 40yd, 4.77 SS, 8.33 3C, 30 vert, 8’07” broad, 37 bench
*didn’t run 40 due to a heel injury.
R7- SS Yamen Sanders, Montana
Another guy to develop behind Kam and a hedge if he leaves next year.
Yam: 6040, 215, 4.56 40yd, 1.60 10yd, 42 vert, 10’4″ broad, 4.44 SS, 7.35 3C, 24 bench
Kam: 6032, 231, 4.59 40yd, 1.61 10yd, 32 vert, 09’8″ broad, 4.41 SS, 7.36 3C, 22 bench
He looks the part and I liked his tape enough to take a late-round swing on him. Seattle was there at Montana pro day working out DE Caleb Kidder, but they might have been keeping an eye on Sanders as well.
UDFA
– Small slot CB as alternate for matchups: CB Xavier Coleman (Portland St.)
– MLB depth/ST: Dylan Cole (Missouri State)
– Athletic OL project: Andrew Eide (BYU) TEF monster, former DL convert, already played in ZBS.
-OW/slot project: Taquan Mizzell (Virginia) / WR Riley McCarron (Iowa) / WR Keevan Lucas (Tulsa)
– QB competition for Boykin: C.J. Beathard (Iowa) is dang athletic at least.
What do you guys think?
I think it’d be a big surprise if they go that way with their first two picks
Maybe you’re right. I do see Obi as CB though, following a big WR into the slot if the matchup dictates. And we wouldn’t have much of a hedge in negotiations with Kam or backup at both S spots that Evans could provide.
Them meeting with Obi at least 3 times already has me wondering whether they are just really interested or if they might have doubts about his mental makeup and fit in the locker room. We only see the athleticism, but if he turns out not to be a fit, then trade down a bit for R4+R5 and take Justin Evans and then trade up in R2 to take Evan Engram. I was really bothered by not finding a way to get Engram anyway.
R2- Evans
R2- Engram
R3- Shaq Griffin
R3- Asiata
R4- Kittle
R5- Antoine
R6- Kidder
R7- Sanders
I can see the Obi pick at 26 but I really can’t see them going back to back Safety picks.
They have Kam, Earl, Mcdougal (who JS is clearly high on) on the roster if you add 2 safeties with picks #1, #2 where do they all play?
Chris Godwin won’t be there at 90
George Kittle wont last to the 5th round
CJ Beathard will be drafted before the 7th round his tape is too good to go undrafted
Yeah, I really like both Godwin and Kittle and think it would be great if we drafted them, but a third and a fifth will be too late.
Some quality feedback on the mock already. Thanks for the mock, love them.
My only other player specific comment is that from the great plays only highlight video on Evans, he was one of my my favorite hammering safety options as well. However, after watching a good deal of game tape on him, I saw him standing around quite a bit, look to lost quite a bit and whiffed on a higher than expected number of tackles. Didn’t appear to have the general sense of anticipation or nose for the ball that the highlight tape would lead you to believe he had. After watching this and the tape on Maye, Mays is my clear preference.
My pleasure, Hawktalker, and I truly enjoy the feedback and learn from it.
The knock on Maye is that he looks great coming downhill from the safety position, but can he consistently turn and run in deep coverage as well? V12 also commented a while back he doesn’t look so hot in zone coverage, and I think there is something to that as well.
Don’t get me wrong, I like him too. Both he and Evans have points to work on, but both have sky-high potential as well.
One thing I am grateful to have learned from a recent discussion with Rob on Adoree Jackson is that one has to watch the tape not just analyzing the player as he is in that system, but what he would look like if plugged into our system and given a role he thrives at. That is a tough part of scouting and something I am still trying to learn.
For example, they saw what Kam could become when they drafted him, but at the beginning, they told him all they wanted him to do was be physical. And he thrived in that as he learned the rest. I think Evans (or Maye) could take a similar path. Adoree Jackson as well. How great could he be with Earl Thomas behind him so that he can just press and use his quickness to attack the ball from the slot?
Earl FS
Kam SS
Obi RCB
Evans Buffalo
McDougald depth at all positions and splits time with Evans. He is only here on a 1-year deal and Kam would have a ton of leverage if we have nobody else on the roster. Plus, injuries happen. McDougald is the new Kelcie McCray.
McDougal is a lot more than the new Kelcie McCray. I think he’ll see the field a lot this season.
I really like where Sea Modes head is at. I’m going to add a couple of notes:
-With one of our first two picks, we will draft a DB that also is a returner. For me, I’m looking at Jabrill Peppers, Tre White, and Adoree Jackson.
-Tre White makes the most sense to pair with Obi. We could conceivably move up to that 44th pick and get him. This way, you not only add a big CB/SS in Obi, but you also draft a returner and the long term replacement for Lane (which is probably needed after this year).
-If they miss out on Obi, then Adoree Jackson makes a lot of sense. Sea Mode is right: I think Justin Evans or Marcus Maye then becomes the SS pick in the second round.
-The real wildcard position in my eyes is TE. They are obviously constructing a very young, very cheap offense around Russell and adding a stud TE in the first two rounds (Engram, Njoku, Butt) would allow them to not have to overpay for an older Jimmy Graham.
Curious what your guys thoughts are now on Demarcus Walker and what round he would be available. I can’t find much discussion on him in the national media.
He’s been totally anonymous. Didn’t go to the Senior Bowl. Didn’t do anything at the combine. Seemingly didn’t do anything at the FSU pro-day. Have to question why and his stock is sinking as a consequence.
Rob, just on that play you mentioned with Jackson chasing Alabama RB down… First thing that came to mind was from a rugby game years back, James O’Connor against Ireland -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT9tNJdiQ2E
I LOVE plays like that. I realllyyy want Jackson. He’s got ‘it’ in spades.
It’s an amazing play by Adoree’. Just never gave up. I saw him make three tackles like that watching his tape, chasing down a lost cause and saving a TD.
I remember watching that match (lived in Oz for nine years). One of O’Connor’s best moments as a Wallaby.
Yep. One of the single greatest wastes of talent I’ve ever seen.
Will have to track down this tape of Jackson. Just can’t not think the arms will be a dealbreaker for PCJS unfortunately.
@bobcondotta:
Carroll floats idea of Fant sitting and learning for a while behind Joeckel but says long-term expectations for Fant remain high.
A very interesting note because it only opens up the possibility of adding a guard early to compete with Glowinski and Aboushi if Joeckel ends up at tackle.
Rob- what are your thoughts on pat elflien from Ohio State as a round 3 guard prospect that could also back up center and be a leveraging chip next year?
Was never much of a fan to be honest. And at the combine he was one of the worst testers in terms of explosive traits. So minimal upside to get progressively better.
It does lead one to think Joeckel is a one-year rental, especially if he plays his way into a big contract next year.
Also compels me to reevaluate my earlier opinion that the interest in Lamp was merely a smokescreen.
LT: Joeckel
LG: Lamp
C: Britt
RG: Aboushi/Glow
RT: Ifedi
I think it opens up the flexibility to go OL early if the opportunity arises. If Lamp is there, they can work him into the line-up. If they go for Asiata, Moton or Siragusa, likewise, albeit in R2-3.
Good point. I still have a hard time imagining they’d pass on Obi or King if either are available.
Also, this makes me think they won’t focus on LB early, or rather, they’ll look at OL before LB on Day 2:
@bobcondotta: Carroll says he thinks free agent emphasis on linebacker has paid off to make it most competitive group Seahawks have had in a few years.
I really hope they get 2 DB with first 2 picks and at least 3 of first 5 picks DB. Kam probably not resigned, Sherman has worn out his welcome and will probably be gone after 2017, Shead is out for all of 2017 and Thomas is in rehab and has talked about retirement.
1st S (Baker)
2nd CB (Douglas)
3rd OL (Asiata)
3rd CB (Griffin)
3rd S (Luani)
Sherm has not worn out his welcome???
A player who wore out his welcome was Christine Michael, thats an example of a player wearing out their welcome in Seattle. Sherm is nowhere near that circumstance.
Close. 2 years ago, PC and JS would have laughed at the thought of trading Sherman and slammed the door on the idea. Now they say they take all calls and never said no to it. Will they ever say he has worn out his welcome, no. What they aren’t saying is saying more than what they are. Just my 2 cents.
Any GM in the league will listen to any deal and there’s nothing wrong with listening because there’s a lot of teams that will overspend when it comes to trades or free-agent signing’s. There’s nothing wrong with him listening that doesn’t mean Shermans worn out his welcome. If someone called up the Houston Texans and said they will give them three first-round draft picks and two second round draft picks for JJ Watt, the GM’s going to listen weather he accepts the trade or not idk but thats no different than john listening to trade propositions for Sherman. Doesn’t mean anything till pen touches paper and Agents get involved.
Agreed. But as I said, PC and JS would have laughed it off. Same thing about JJ Watt and Tom Brady. Nobody calls because it’s a non starter. Same thing with Sherman 2 years ago. Now they say they listen to all calls. It’s a change. Not saying it will happen, but it’s a possibility that wasn’t there a year ago.
Not sure why Carroll thinks Joeckel is an improvement on Fant. What you gain in experience, you lose in athleticism. Joeckel will get eaten alive at LT.
I was thinking of a scenario in which the Seahawks might draft Sidney Jones.
For the same reason New Orleans might want to trade out of the number 32 spot (money, commitment of 1st round) the Seahawks might want to trade down to there. Besides picking up an extra pick(s) later, they would get an extra year of contract control that would help mitigate the time needed for Jones to recover from his injury.
The flaw in this reasoning is New Orleans would want to move up for someone.
They might move up for an OL. Especially since they’d see Seattle as a threat to take one. Robinson and Lamp could be available and attractive to New Orleans, they started Jahri Evans at RG last year afterall.
If King is off the board I would like to see this happen. Lately there have been a few 1st round picks lost for the season with training camp injuries, at least that wouldn’t happen with Sidney Jones 🙂
Seahawks GM John Schneider said he’s been in touch with Scott McCloughan, but McCloughan has other opportunities he’s exploring right now and there’s no plans at this time for him to rejoin Seattle.
Sheil Kapadia, ESPN
PC admitted teams have called about Sherman. Interesting, really seems like they are open to it and some what tired of his antics. While NO has been the team initially brought up, really think if this happens he gets sent to an AFC team.
I didn’t hear Pete mention anything about being tired of his antics, nor has anyone in the organization mentioned anything like that. John Schneider said they listen to everything, and didn’t shut the door on a potential Sherman trade, but it doesn’t sound like they are actively shopping him. Pete’s comments actually indicate that Sherman is unlikely to go anywhere. He said that he expects him to stay with the Seahawks, but also didn’t shut the door on it since there’s no need to.
You don’t have to say it. People use to ask PC a few years back and he always laughed it off and slammed the door on any trade possibilities. It’s not what he said, it’s what he didn’t say. Like he said (JS), they are listening. Late 1, early 2, I would say lose the big contract and big ego.
Are they willing to move Sherman? Probably. Is it going to take more than anyone is likely to offer us in order to move Sherman? Also probably.
There is probably a price point where the team would seriously consider dealing Richard Sherman. I doubt that anyone is going to offer that much for him. And regardless of whether or not they tired of Sherman’s off-field issues last year, Sherman’s ability and the uncertainty surrounding much of the rest of the secondary mean that the team isn’t going to get rid of him without getting ample compensation in return.
Sherman’s not going anywhere any time soon.
I don’t know if that’s true. John says all the time they get into every trade out there to see what it’s all about. I don’t think this has really come up before. I don’t remember many other rumored trades involving Seahawks players during the Pete and John era.
Also, you want to lose the big contract and big ego, but I think you are undervaluing the big talent and big leader part.
Teams rarely announce they are actively shopping someone; typically a horrible negotiating tactic and potentially results in bad blood from the player being shopped (if no trade is consummated). But through a few leaks, they have clearly let all 31 teams know they will listen without having to say it themselves. While they are probably content with a Sherman-led secondary in ’17, they may be happy to move on from his antics. Above all, protect the team. Sherman is perilously close to stepping over that line with his coach rants. And what better year to move on (if a value trade presents itself), when you can reload with a strong DB draft class. In my opinion, for as good as Sherman has been, we likely have already seen his best.
BINGO
We have seen his best, but it’s not like there’s a better CB in the NFL right now. I am not anywhere near ready to move on from the best CB in the NFL, especially when the second best CB on the roster is out for at least half the season and only signed for one year. He isn’t replaceable, it’s really that simple for me.
Wouldn’t force it, but I would be open to it. HIs contract expires in 2019 and I don’t think the Hawks can afford to give him a 3rd.
Going to be interesting the next two years with all the big names probably not seeing 2nd or 3rd contracts. Britt and Clark would be the only solid yes unless way out of price range. Kam and Graham gone next year would add $18 million
Britt 2018
Joekel 2018
Richardson 2018
Lacy 2018
Kam 2018
Shead 2018
Graham 2018
Sherman 2019
Thomas 2019
Avril 2019
Clark 2019
Wright 2019
I understand the love for all of these DB’s but the Hawks are not likely to draft 3 or 4 of them. We have several All Pro players in that position group. Looking at prior drafts, they tend to spread their picks around. You have to have a roster spot for these guys and reps in training camp. All reports are they like Elliott, Thorpe and Pierre Desir. Jeremy Lane is getting paid $5.25M and has a $7.7M dead cap hit if he is cut. He isn’t going anywhere and certainly is going to play. Shead will be back mid season. McDougald checks a lot of boxes as the third Safety. I cannot see more than 2 rookies making the 53 man roster at DB. They might even see extra value in Sidney Jones just because he can be red shirted on the NFI list.
Other places we need help: OL, TE, QB2, DT, WR. LB
They don’t have any safety depth apart from McDougald and they’re weaker at CB than they’ve been in a long while.
3-4 picks in a full draft class isn’t a big stretch either. A year ago they selected three offensive linemen for example. I think 3-4 picks at DB this year is quite a modest suggestion really given the talent and depth available.
Agree (and hope) with you Rob.
Sherman (2 years left on contract, probably won’t get a 3rd if he stays)
Kam (contract expires)
Thomas (coming off of injury and talked about retirement)
Lane (terrible last year so could be his last year here)
Shead (probably out for 9/10 of year and on a 1 year deal)
The LOB will all be gone in 2019 (my opinion), so strike while the iron is hot and this draft class if full of potential Hawk DBs.
Everyone head up to the Sports illustrated Twitter account they have a three round mock draft that just posted this morning pretty realistic mock draft. I like the pics they had Seattle taking. Looks like it was Chris Burke who did the writing, I didnt really agree with how he selected his top 10 but it is different from all the other marks so it offers a refreshing read.
Link?
Mocks*
I don’t know how to share the link just go to Twitter and go to Sports Illustrated’s account you can’t miss it.
Here’s the link: http://www.si.com/nfl/2017/03/29/nfl-mock-draft-first-third-round-picks?xid=socialflow_twitter_si
Your thoughts on the mock Rob? In My opinion certain areas of the mock look realistic and good for us if it were to fall that wat while some of the areas I shake my head at because theres no way players go that early or in some cases that late. The only question I have is taking tyus in round two, not that I don’t think that’s a good value or he could go that early but, rather the fact that we just signed three linebackers in free agency. Do you think that is realistic that we could draft Bowser in round two? I wouldn’t mind him at all just don’t know if they’ll want to spend that early of a pick on linebacker now the way free agency unfolded.
Like most mocks there are things that make sense and other things I’ll disagree with. I like some of the guys Seattle takes but not 100% sold they’ll be the guys they get or desire.