The trio, in happier times
Exactly a month ago I wrote an article assessing the futures of Russell Wilson, Pete Carroll and John Schneider.
With a losing season now confirmed, it’s time to review where things stand with three games to go until the biggest off-season in over a decade.
What I said a month ago: Russell Wilson will seek a trade
My view in November was that while Wilson had no specific interest in leaving the Seahawks — and would probably prefer to stay — he would request a trade without major organisational change.
Essentially, it would need Carroll and Schneider to move on.
I still think is true. Yet I think, increasingly, we’re heading towards a situation where he might believe a fresh start is necessary regardless.
With Jordan Schultz and Ian Rapoport already reporting that Wilson has extended his list of potential trade destinations to include the New York Giants, Philadelphia and Denver — it’s starting to feel like the writing is on the wall.
Things could move quite quickly once the season ends.
I suspect we’re going to see a wild market for veteran quarterbacks. The lack of attractive options in the draft, coupled with a mediocre top-end of the 2022 class overall, will likely see teams turn their attentions to what’s available via trade.
Further to that, there are teams ready to make a big move.
The Denver Broncos appear primed to make a statement trade. The New Orleans Saints and Pittsburgh Steelers will likely be involved. The Giants need to do something and appear in a state of utter desperation (more on that shortly). The Dolphins nearly pulled off a deal for Deshaun Watson before the deadline and clearly the Carolina Panthers need a new starter.
Philly, Washington, Detroit and maybe even Atlanta could also be scouring the market.
It seems there are willing sellers, too.
The Seahawks might be more willing to part with Wilson in 2022, after blocking any such move earlier this year. Aaron Rodgers’ contract restructure makes a departure somewhat likely from Green Bay (but you never really know with Rodgers). Watson will eventually leave Houston.
We could see an explosion of deals.
My preference is not for Wilson to be dealt. As desperately poorly as he’s played at times this year, I think there are factors to consider.
Firstly, the finger injury. Wilson doesn’t miss on throws like the deep-ball to D.K. Metcalf in LA. Clearly he isn’t close to 100% and I don’t think people should overlook the impact of the injury just to fit an agenda.
Neither do I think anyone is to blame for Wilson playing despite not being close to his healthy best. Wilson isn’t the type of person to sit out. You can criticise him for that if you want but I can’t. I don’t want a quarterback who does what Ben Roethlisberger’s been doing for the last few years. Equally, I don’t blame Carroll for going with Wilson, injury and all. Wilson returning to form, gradually, was their best shot to put things right. It was not Geno Smith, despite what some people think.
Secondly — I just think things have gone stale and flat. Wilson deserves criticism for his play. He hasn’t played anywhere near well enough. Yet I look at this offense and have no idea what they’re trying to do — regardless of who the quarterback is. They can’t hang their hat on anything. They can’t run with consistency. They don’t have a great quick-passing game. They don’t feature their stars well enough.
I think Shane Waldron has proven to either be out of his depth or going through some serious growing pains as a playcaller. Yet the offense, to me, is deeply uninspiring and frankly — it’s dreadful.
For too long now the Seahawks have endured issues. When you look at the list of coordinators they’ve had — Darrell Bevell, Brian Schottenheimer and now Waldron — it’s seriously underwhelming. Too often they’ve relied on magic from either the quarterback or, in the case of Bevell, from Marshawn Lynch.
So as poorly as Wilson has played, I’m also unwilling to forget (as some people are) what he’s shown in a glorious career that has him on a Hall of Fame trajectory. And I’m intrigued by the idea of finally having a top-class playcaller and schemer running the offense before shipping him off somewhere else.
None of Carroll’s offensive coordinators have amounted to anything after leaving Seattle. None were seen as a major coup when appointed — despite a level of intrigue surrounding Waldron, purely through association to Sean McVay.
I want to see Wilson with a top-level offensive mind because I sense replacing him will be absolutely terrifying. Unlike many others, I’ve studied the quarterback class extensively. I also know it’s a bleak quarterback outlook in college currently. I don’t see many solutions in the future, only problems.
I sense some people are tired of me comparing Carroll and Seattle to Green Bay and Mike McCarthy. Yet I do think it’s a valid point. They went from six wins in back-to-back years and people doubting Aaron Rodgers (including the team, they drafted Jordan Love in round one) to back-to-back 13 win seasons, back-to-back NFC Championships and they’re on the march again this year.
People point out they had a strong O-line. They drafted Elgton Jenkins in 2019 though. Josh Myers was selected only this year. David Bakhtiari has missed a lot of time through injury. Their current line includes a recent sixth round pick, two recently undrafted players and a free agent journeyman right tackle.
The major changes were thus — they removed their long-term Head Coach (McCarthy) and introduced a progressive, offensive-minded replacement. They rebuilt their pass rush and made the trenches a strength. They developed a running game and invested in good running backs. And they hit on draft picks in their secondary.
That, to me, is a viable path forward for Seattle. New coach, reinforce the lines, develop a consistent running game and draft better. I believe Wilson can succeed quickly in that environment and the Seahawks can turn things around quickly.
Despite their lack of draft stock, they have a projected $44.3m in cap space in 2022. Cutting Bobby Wagner creates another $17m. Despite his high tackle numbers, I don’t see any justification for paying Wagner $20m next year. His best days are in the past.
It’s seemingly a taboo subject to criticise Wagner — but his performances are getting worse. He received a 37.0 grade against the Rams and his season grade of 73.3 is a significant regression from 2020 (83.2).
It’s time to shift resource to the trenches. It’s just a shame they can’t do the same with Jamal Adams and his contract for another year or two.
In a bizarro world scenario where I was afforded five minutes with Jody Allen — this is what I would pitch. With gusto and passion. I would plead with her to be bold and ambitious to find a dynamic new coach and leader who is willing to follow the Green Bay blueprint.
However, I do believe in the saying ‘where there’s smoke there’s fire’. Seeing Albert Breer tout a Wilson trade to the Giants enhanced a point of view I feel is becoming increasingly likely.
As I noted yesterday, the Giants franchise has hit the rocks. The on-field product is horrendous. The fans are extremely unhappy with owner John Mara, to the point he’s being viciously booed during two ceremonies celebrating legendary players having their numbers retired. The Giants also experienced a PR disaster at the weekend, offering a paltry ‘free soda’ to season ticket holders as a thank you for their loyalty, creating a lot of social media laughter, then having small-print dictate and limit the size and type of soda they were being offered.
The franchise has become a laughing stock. Mara needs a ballsy move to get things going. If he lands a top quarterback, such as Wilson, he can potentially generate some positive headlines.
Some people might say the price will be so high that the Giants would invite criticism. Look — it can be spun many ways. Jamal Adams cost a fortune. One more first round pick added to the deal is hardly a stretch for a big name quarterback and the New York media will jump at the chance to make that price comparison. Plus the value has been set by prior trades such as the Matt Stafford deal. Whatever your personal view on Wilson and Stafford — the two players have had very different careers.
You could even argue that if Stafford leads the Rams on a strong playoff run, it will encourage teams to emulate the trade LA made — albeit with the knowledge it’d be a sellers market, given the draft situation.
And that’s the other thing to remember. For Seattle, Green Bay and Houston to part with their quarterbacks — they will expect to receive a steep price. Teams such as the Giants and the Broncos can’t turn to their fans and justify another year of mediocre quarterback play. They need a proper plan. They are in a bracket labelled ‘desperate’.
We know all too well in Seattle what happens when desperate teams start making trades.
Increasingly people are wondering what Wilson’s dip in performance will do to his trade value. I think that’s a red-herring. Teams will gamble on established quarterbacks. Heck, it’s not that long ago Sam Bradford was being passed around the league for a first round pick every year. By February and March, people won’t be talking about Wilson’s poor form with a bad finger. They’ll be talking about him in the terms of a superstar QB.
Thus — my prediction currently would align with Breer’s. Wilson to the Giants for a small fortune. Multiple picks — including New York’s two in round one for 2022. Possibly players, perhaps even a sacrificial lamb such as injury-hit Saquon Barkley.
I’m not sure how Seattle would move forward from there. But I am certain that if this happens, the status quo plotting the next rebuild cannot remain. The reset years of 2018-2021 have turned the Seahawks into a floundering mess. That has to come with consequences.
As Adam Kilgore notes in the Washington Post today:
“Once bursting with star players, verve and innovative ideas that changed the sport, the Seahawks play stale football with a mediocre and seemingly unhappy roster.”
They are stale and boring. They once set trends but now appear to be the kind of team neutral fans desperately hope aren’t featured in prime time.
What I said a month ago: Pete Carroll will walk
I still believe this will happen.
I’ve heard all the arguments that insist Carroll will have no interest in walking away or retiring. That could prove true. But I think too many people are ignoring some things that must be considered.
As we’ve noted many times this year, leading NFL insider Jay Glazer reported at the end of the 2017 season that Carroll was considering retirement. Ultimately, he chose to lead the rebuild instead.
But if he was thinking of quitting four years ago, why is it unlikely now — when the franchise is faced with a far greater restructure?
In 2018 they simply built behind Wilson and Wagner. Now, they’d need to find a new franchise quarterback. That’s a massive task that could take years. Does Carroll seriously want to spend 2-3 years running through the options, potentially facing the kind of seasons he had in 2010 and 2011?
He admitted himself — he wouldn’t have been in Seattle as long as he has without Wilson. A future with Carroll means a future without Wilson.
I cannot imagine him wanting to sour his legacy or take on the mammoth task that lies ahead. The only solution would be to take the added stock in a Wilson trade and deal for Rodgers or Watson. Yet why would either quarterback invite such a proposal? Especially given Wilson’s clear public loss of faith in Carroll’s philosophy?
People mention the long-term contract and the money. Let’s get one thing straight. Money is no object to Jody Allen. A golden handshake deal would be distinctly possible and that would mean no loss of earning for Carroll. This is a franchise that paid off Jim Mora after one year. Mutually parting on good terms with the best coach in team history is hardly a stretch.
In terms of the fact Carroll signed a deal just a year ago. He agreed that deal when Seattle was 6-1. So much has changed since then — especially with the QB. Stating Carroll wouldn’t depart early seems like an assumption to me, rather than anything rooted in cast-iron fact.
I also wouldn’t put it past Allen to simply fire Carroll and make changes. That’s how badly this franchise has drifted. Personally I hope it doesn’t come to that and my preference would be for Carroll — now that the slim playoff hopes are gone — to announce he’s leaving at the end of the season. It would give the team extra time to bring in a replacement. It would also give the fans an opportunity to give Carroll a proper send-off.
Better to walk away a hero than stick around too long and become the villain.
What I said a month ago: John Schneider is the big question mark
This to me is still the most interesting talking point.
I can imagine a scenario where Allen and co lean on Schneider. They hand him the power and control, having only signed a new deal at the start of the year. He picks the next coach and sets out the new vision.
The thing is — this scenario almost certainly means Wilson is traded. I think the relationship between Schneider and Wilson (and Mark Rodgers) is broken. If you want Wilson to stay, I suspect it will take a clean sweep of new coach, new GM.
Allen might be hesitant to part with Wilson. Who knows? She too might prefer the Green Bay model I’ve been touting.
But as I said, it might be convenient to trust in Schneider and let him dictate the future. I’m just not sure it’s the right move.
I do think Carroll has a degree of control over the draft and player acquisition. That’s not to suggest the GM just sits in the corner typing out emails and making calls. I do think it’s a collaboration, yet with Carroll ultimately having final say and dictating the plan of action.
I can’t say that Schneider wouldn’t have made every botched pick, wouldn’t have done the Adams trade and wouldn’t have squandered so much resource. I think the front office is full of hubris and misplaced self-confidence. Too often the Seahawks have acted like the smartest men in the room — when the right decisions simply required common sense, modesty and at times — predictability.
Rather than learn from mistakes, they’ve made more serious ones year-by-year.
Yet I do think there’s enough to suggest this is mostly Carroll’s baby. He is, after all, the man at the top with overall control.
The problem for those of us on the outside looking in is we can’t establish the extent of Schneider’s decision making. It’s hard to say what you want to happen, without making assumptions.
What can’t be disputed is the 2018 reset failed spectacularly. Resources have been squandered and the result is a 5-9 team that doesn’t even own the top-10 pick it’s destined to receive for a wasted season.
For that reason, I’d prefer wholesale change. I’m just not sure the Seahawks will see it that way.
Luckily, there’s only three more games to wait and find out.
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Great write up.
Since the comments have gone so far around the bend to now include: apparently Wilson was never elite, I ask folks who in the free agent market, upcoming draft, or tradeable qb’s is going to do better with this current FO and team construction?
-if Schneider trades for Rodgers with all of the Wilson picks how is the team going to improve?
-is it fan favorite but apparently not league favorite Gardner Minshew?
-David Mills has shown a little, certainly against Seattle, is he a trade target?
-if you take a moment to look at the free agents next year is there any you see who short of a perfect rebuild is going to give you anything better than a .500 season while PC gets older and older and the team continues to hope to strike gold on a QB? I mean this team already had lots of picks and did nothing until they took Marshawn off of the Bills’ hands….and….drafted the second best QB in his draft because every gm was asleep at the wheel. Is PC really going to embark on three years of retooling and a prayer that they find the final piece?
– Is Wilson cooked? It’s not just Rodgers. It’s also Manning, Brady, and to an extent Brees where word of their demise had been greatly exaggerated.
Matt Hasselbeck is on 710 with Salk for the PC show. Interesting.
That is… interesting.
Wonder what’s provoked that.
Maybe numbers not good?
Maybe the “Mike and Matt Show” is on the horizon?
Salk seems to need a strong co-host, preferably one that disagrees with him and can say why.
Isn’t Hasselbeck always on at this time on Wednesday with Salk? Just happens because of the rescheduled game that the PC show ended up on the same day.
This is exactly it. The Matt Hasselbeck show has been on every Wednesday so far this season, why cancel the show just because PC is going to be on?
That’s what it’ll be, you’re right
Enjoying the well written unbiased perspective Rob provides weekly has been one of the only high points in this 2021 season. Thank you Rob! I would opt for:
1. Allow PC to walk away with dignity – go hard after Sean Peyton and give him some player control so no trade or lost draft pick are required.
2. Move away from JS – simply because of the relationship with Wilson’s agent and a total reboot is required at the top. 10 great years but it is time.
3. Keep Wilson – HOF QB paired with Sean Peyton ( or even others like E Bienemy, K Moore or others would be electric. The 2021 draft produced: T Lawrence, Z Wilson, T Lance and Mac Jones and the vote is still out on all of them after their first full NFL season but the 2022 draft has far less talent and huge “floors” on the top prospects. This year some teams have started: Goff, Cam Newton, T Bridgewater, B Mayfield, D Jones, J Hurts, Tua, T Taylor, J Winston, Jimmy G, A Dalton = I do not want to be one of the “have nots”!!!
Wilson is the key to a quick re-boot. If Wilson demands a trade and the Hawks comply get ready for one of the previously named QB’s to be in Seattle to be the “bridge” QB as we wait for the 2023 draft.
4. New coach needs to replace the entire coaching staff and bring new energy and ideas with a reboot.
Thanks again Rob – Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Well thought out write-up.
I think the two most likely scenarios are…
1. Russ and Pete are gone, John stays.
or
2. Russ is gone, John and Pete stay.
Like you, I’m not sure keeping John is the right move. But, assuming he *wants* to be here (which seems likely, considering he just signed an extension at a time when he knew the Wilson situation was at a head and the team was on the edge of falling apart), my guess is he’ll be kept around and given a chance to do things “his way”.
agree w the above.
honestly, really wish i’d see more clues/signs that Pete is leaving. I take Rob’s points re body language/tone, etc., but I also think Carroll has a well of internal optimism that gets replenished every off-season. I so don’t want to run this one back again.
I would be interested in keeping Schneider because he is familiar with the contracts and how to get them signed. I think if he was paired up with good talent scouts, that would go a long way to improving the drafting and free agency. Plus I really don’t think he had a majority say in who was getting signed – I blame Pete Carroll for that.
A lot depends on which coach is chosen to replace Pete Carroll. That’s the rub. I’ve seen a few names come up but it seems like the market for good coaches is as tight as the market for good quarterbacks. Sean Payton with New Orleans sounds interesting but would he move and what coaches can he bring with him? Or would he work with the current staff? There is lots to think about.
PC Show with Salk & Hasselbeck
Hass jokes about being fined for being late as they wait…
[Salk] What happened? Played good enough to win, kept score down. Protected, ran the ball well, had a shot. Opp here or there, so close. Games been like that all year. Broke down on a play, 40 yard run breaks out. Little things magnified, couldn’t get the game won.
[Hass] Halftime drive out of gate looked good, similar to Pitt game 2nd half out of gate? Clear couple things needed to go to, laying off us, needed to run. Ran it 19x game like that you want to run 30x, couldn’t get to the numbers. Sequence gave us rhythm. Beautiful illustration of taking command of game. Should have flipped the game there.
[Salk] How does it go from success to poor drive 4th Q, run disappeared? Trying to take adv of run, they did a good job taking away some things. Russ tried to see DK coming across, defender got in way, throw the ball away. Run the ball so you can do all the rest of the things.
[Hass] Point to one play in game, wish we’d made? I’ve got 4 of em, isn’t just one. Defensive holding call, really bad call, corners rerouting receiver. Third and twelve gave them life. Missed DK on bomb. Ramsey gets back makes a play, TD there, explosive play. Couple more, wasn’t just one. Frustrating game.
[Salk] Russ play? Underthrew a couple deep balls coulda helped us. DK deep ball. Scramble across to Eskridge, usually hit Tyler with it. Eskridge another one too. Deep shots coulda exploded with those opps.
[Salk] Russ running less. By design? Like to see go back up? Read stuff, people sit on QB and make you hand off ball. Everyone schemes don’t less Russ run the ball. Defenses have evolved. Last night, protected well, had a shot. Chance to get time we needed. They did a nice job coverage.
[Hass] This year DBs disguise is hurting them more than helping? Third and twelve play ex? How do you balance that? We jumped out of the hook, chased them back in the flat. Wasn’t disguise, I don’t agree with you on that. We’re not overdoing it. Playing deep and short. Big chance in explosive plays. Why we’re keeping scores down.
[Hass] Stafford to Van Jefferson 3rd and twelve? Just Cover-2 and we didn’t keep sinking. We need to make that play. 50 yard play. Guy down middle Ugo didn’t make it, get there. Cooper Kupp playing out of this world football. Make it look easy. Give him credit.
[Salk] Design offense around Kupp? More than you’re used to ever seeing. Never seen team rely so much on a WR. Blocking is exquisite too. Knows how to block and when to block. Remarkable player. They’re using him and they know it.
[Hass] Way you can coach against Kupp? Every coverage we’re in, where is he? Guys in their zone move toward him. Brooks had to keep coming. Didn’t quite make it. We practiced it, their rhythm better than ours. Chemistry like Tyler and Russ.
[Salk] Why can’t DK and Russ connect like that? Working at it, went to him a bunch of times last night. One deep ball wasn’t there. Difference between players. Tyler remarkable sense of feel and spatial awareness that rarely happens. Great players have different level of awareness. A lot comes from growing up. Tyler best route runner in CFB. Unique awareness. Very few have it.
[Hass] Seeing Russ and DK missing hitch routes? Not Russ unhealthy? One drive Russ ripped it high and outside, timing wasn’t quite right. Working at it. Dangerous pair, just gotta keep going. If we had the deep ball, the whole thing would be different.
[Salk jokes about just sitting there and listening to them talk…]
[Hass] Pass Interference call that wasn’t called? Mechanics of way you communicate w NFL? Trying to develop relationship with refs tell me what just happened, taking place. I get explanation from them for the most part. Extends through early part of week in post game. Take a look at plays after game, think they could evaluate, send them to NFL get explanation. Doing it for years. Heartbreaking when they tell you the call should have been called. Don’t talk about that stuff, keep relationship going. You don’t hear much from me about it. sometimes it’s a written response, some time we debate over the film. Send as many as 6-10 plays from the game.
[Salk] Want to rave about the Darrell Taylor hit? Really good ex of shoulder punching. Don’t lead w helmet. Little strike you can make with shoulder. Pretty cool.
[Salk jokes about fans wanting just Hasselbeck and PC talking and he’ll get fired]
Very strange. Of course i didn’t listen so i am missing context clues but feels very surreeal to break down what could have been done differently like this is a week eight game and not talk about something meaningful….such,
Where does the team go from here now that they have the first losing season in a decade? Limited draft stock. A qb that broached being traded last year that was real everywhere besides at 710’s studio.
I just hope above all that the future is much clearer come the end of the Superbowl. A long gruelling off-season culminating in little change will most certainly derail my interest in Hawks 2022 football.
A good but boring team is ok to watch. A bad but interesting team is fun to watch if it looks like it is building to being fun and good a season or two down the line. Seattle has unfortunately mastered the concept of bad and dull. My vote would be to keep Wilson and lose Pete and John, but I don’t think that will happen. I get the feeling that, like you said, Pete will walk but John will stay and his relationship with Russ is broken.
Purely from a corporate management perspective, I think it’s unrealistic to expect that Jody Allen will have the appetite to move on from all three of Pete, Schneider, and Russ in one offseason. Removing all three would leave a tremendous leadership and visibility vacuum in the organization, and it would take a *lot* of work to fill those holes.
You’d have massive vacancies throughout the entire franchise:
-every scout or front office person who reports to Schneider;
-every minor coach and member of training and performance staff, all the way down to “assistant to the quality control coach”, who reports to Pete;
-the face of your franchise and person responsible for getting five prime time games every year and filling the stadium in Russ. She’d essentially be starting from scratch.
By all accounts Jody Allen is more of a “steward owner” than the type of activist owners we see elsewhere in the NFL. There have been no indications that she’d be willing to roll up her sleeves and get into the weeds of completely rebuilding the entire organization. It’s a giant pain in the ass, and avoidable if she’s willing to rationalize 2021 away as an outlier season rather than indicative of a broader trend (which it is — let’s be clear).
You’re left with a kind of fascinating game of musical chairs. At least one will remain, but likely not two, and certainly not all three.
I don’t necessarily disagree in general with this post, but Jody Allen is in the weeds and shaking shit up with the Portland Trailblazers. I imagine Paul passed some wisdom on about how and when to “hear the music 🎵 stop” and what she’d have to do to rectify the ship (a la the godfather scene where the Don is talking with his son about how to know who is working against their interests and what to be done about it after he imminently passes away) And the primetime games are pretty much gone next year regardless of who is playing or coaching. And relying on the staff who made this mess versus bringing in new staff, from GM to the towel boy, really comes down to whether ownership thinks current group versus some potential new group would give the Seahawks the fastest road to sustainable winning again.
Definitely agree with the musical chairs analogy. It’s all fascinating in a really shitty kind of way. But such is life at times – appreciate the pain of dark times so as to truly revel in the joy of great times.
Wow, Texas A&M just exited the Gator Bowl.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/12/22/texas-am-exits-gator-bowl-over-covid-outbreak/
Miami in real danger of not playing the Sun Bowl vs. Wazzu in 9 days as well.
I think that a rebuild is on the horizon. If that is the case I would hope that we target the following individuals:
GM: Ed Dodds – homerun hire in my opinion
HC: Brian Daboll (Buffalo)
OC: Ken Dorsey (Buffalo)
DC: Patrick Graham (NYG) – only if the Giants clean house with the staff
As far as the roster goes, I’m guessing that the trades as part of the rebuild would look like this:
Russ to NYG for 2 2022 1sts and 1 2023 1st
DK to LV for 2022 1st (I love DK but he might not want to stick around for a rebuild)
Bobby to DAL for a mid round pick
This gives us a good amount of ammunition for the draft this year and next. If this happens, next year could be a tanking year, putting us in a good position to grab CJ Stroud, who I believe will be an elite level QB in the NFL.
To make the tank a reality, we need to do as Rob says and build in the trenches with the picks this year. Penning, Ojabo, Raimann, Davis, and Cross would all be in the crosshairs. Most if not all of these players are raw, so it’d encourage the tank. CBs like Stingley, Sauce, or Booth could be in play as well.
Daboll could bring along Trubisky as the tank year QB.
Two reasons I am hugely against tanking:
1. Regular fans. The majority that do not nerd out on stats, drafts, or contracts are going to be howling mad to see a 1-16, 2-15 product on the field. Especially after favorite son Wilson and best coach ever Carrol are gone.
2. High draft capital is very valuable. But 20 years of the first pick overall have produced only two number one picks to win a superbowl with the team they are drafted with. There a surprising amount of players picked first overall that amount to very little. Reasonably it could be assumed it’s that the team sucks which got them there in the first place. Not all. But most. If you build well enough in the trenches, etc., that you are only a QB away from winning it seems as likely that you “accidently,” win enough games to bounce you out of a first or second overall pick.
I’m only for tanking if there is a great QB class. It looks like in 2023 there will be a couple of potential superstars in Bryce Young and CJ Stroud. The fans can “embrace the tank” as so many other fanbases have for one year and hope to be in contention again soon. The Rams aren’t built for sustained success and neither the Niners or Cards have proven that they can consistently win games. We wouldn’t be tanking for long.
As far as tanking goes, if you have a ton of roster turnover in one year it can happen even if you are only “a QB away”. Good vets like Brown, Wagner, Diggs, and Woods wouldn’t be on the roster anymore, and you’d likely fill their spots with rookies or players on 1 year deals. When you acquire the stud QB, you could have enough cap space to sign some stars and quality vets while all of your rookies will have gained plenty of experience.
It’s quite the dice roll. If you mess it up you end up being the browns.
Your premise isn’t bad though you just need to find a great FO combo that can really get after it.
My concern with Daboll would be that offensive game plan that they had when the Bills lost to Jacksonville 9-6.
One terrible game over the course of 4 successful years isn’t something to worry about in my opinion. Josh Allen is a great talent, but is also limited in the short passing game. Daboll has shown that he can cater an offense to a QBs strengths and win.
One 1st not enough for DK. Especially if Adams worth 2+, how could they even justify that trade.
I agree if Wilson goes, you might as well trade Metcalf; but you better get great value.
I think if the decision by Jody is to move on from PC & JS;
& there’s as much change as your suggesting, it’s because Russ is staying.
Obviously I could be wrong.
I just think it will come down to if Jody wants to keep Russ or not.
I agree that I hope he can fetch more value, but he is due to sign a MASSIVE deal in a year and he has some temper issues. Maybe you can fetch an additional mid round pick, but given that the team will be signing him to a huge deal, it might be tough. They could be willing to roll the dice on a guy like Drake London in Rd. 1 on a more team friendly deal for 5 years.
I think DK potentially pulls a page from the Jamal Adams playbook and holds out for his big deal in the last year of his rookie contract. The trade that keeps on giving….
DKs cap hit in 2022 is $1.46 million. The way they structure the deal, his first two years will be very low in comparison to the rest of the years on the contract.
A player of DKs talent is playing on such a cheap final year of his rookie contract means more suitors will come knocking, not less.
What coach would leave his ascending squad and prototypical franchise QB in Buffalo, all of which they helped to build, only to downgrade in a new home on another team (Seahawks) that is descending and seriously considering blowing up the ship???
I don’t think that’s how the coaching carousel works. Hawks will either have to give up resources to get a bonafide great coach (ex: trade draft picks for Payton, unless Payton request a leave from his current contract and the Saints oblige — the exact opposite of competing from the Saitns’ perspective) or find a hungry up and comer coach willing to take on all the uncertainty and doubt surrounding this team along with the risk that this sinking ship may just derail their coaching career; all for the slim 1/32 odds that they may reach greatness.
Also, Wagner won’t get a dime in trade value. He’s cut, guaranteed or retires just the same. Possibly he takes a major pay reduction, but would he or the Hawks want to degrade him with such an offer/acceptance? – unlikely.
Do agree on trading DK – not that I want to, but if we aren’t using him and the fact he’ll cost 20+ million (maybe closer to 30!!!??) his first resources are more valuable IMHO. Though, getting 2 1sts instead of only 1 first for a “Calvin Johnson-lite” feels much more palatable to me. At least a 1st + 2nd rounder. Anything less will taste quite sour – but we’ll see what the market and the Hawks think over the next year.
That is exactly how the coaching carousel works.
Daboll is currently an OC. He would become an HC. OCs are not hired by good teams to become their HC. They are hired by bad teams to become their HC and turn around their bad team.
Pretty much every single football coaches dream is to become a head coach in the NFL. If a team that has just recently become a losing team comes knocking, who in their right mind would turn that down, along with the massive pay raise?
Jaguars QB Trevor Lawrence could use DK. Jaguars need a legit proven WR, not so much a defensive player with a top-3 pick. Jaguars defense is above average for how bad their records is.
Having the #1 or #2 overall pick from the Jaguars and the two top-10 picks and 2nd round pick from the Giants, would be a good start for a rebuild of the Seahawks.
Rob,
Have you seen any new potential “offensive minded” head coaches? Do you have any thoughts on Culpepper from Tampa?
Culpepper is an interesting name that I haven’t seen mentioned much in terms of being a possible future head coach. He’s been out of the sport for so long, it would certainly be an outside the box hire.
Do you mean Byron Leftwich?
Oops, got my qbs mixed up. I meant leftwich
I like Leftwich. Not sure he’s head coach material yet (only because I myself do not know enough of resume and communication intangible required of the position rather than me having any personal slight against Byron). If we could nab him as an OC, then definitely!
Outside of Sean Payton or maybe Doug Pederson, I have to imagine we will scour the college landscape for HC candidates as well. Urban Meyer is available 😉
Florio and Simms on Russ’ future
https://youtu.be/7Y8p7t1rcIU
Discussing the Saints as best fit for Russ.
‘Russ needs an offensive PhD and he’s been playing with a GED”
GED
Sigh
The only reason the Saints don’t make sense is they don’t have the draft stock. Unless they give up some geniune marquee players plus mortgage their next few drafts, is the only way I see that being a possibility.
Trade DK to New Orleans for Payton.
F*@# yes!
They are also $61M over the cap. While there are several restructures and extensions they can do to get under, they’ll need to do that + fit in Wilson. Players could be a real possibility.
Cowherd on the Seahawks vs Rams team building
https://youtu.be/tppntjSIC7w
‘Rams get great players for their first round picks in trade. The Seahawks get a box safety who’s never healthy and can’t cover’
‘Seattle is exactly where they should be – they have earned every bit of this 5-9 record’
I think I would agree they earned the 5-9 record. 4 poor offseasons were due to eventually catch up with us. Unfortunately it was after the Jamal Adams trade.
And another sigh
Does Cowherd want to coach again?
Apologies. I meant Bill Cowher, not Collin Cowherd.
I’m so bored seeing the same people making the same arguments on twitter, speaking to their own personal priors relating to this team.
At least when I bang on about the same topics it’s in a 2-3000 word detailed opinion piece. Not 0-220 characters fired off, having the same conversation with the same people every week.
😴
What i like most is that for no reason other than to be doing it you’ve written pieces on almost all the scenarios.
Bang on all you want about the same topics if it’s going to include all the angles you keep parsing through.
Thank you 👏🏻
I try to assess, adapt and review.
Many others pick a team
I totally agree, I’m still finding quite a few people who still think Jamal Adams is the best safety in the NFL & was worth what we paid. After all he had 9 sacks, what other safety could do that. SMH
F the twits.
Assuming they Hawks trade Wilson to the Giants for picks/players whatever. The team now needs a QB and I agree everyone who poo poos most of the soon to be available QBs.
I didn’t notice anyone mention Tyler Huntley. I know it’s a risk to trade for backups but Huntley runs well,.throws hard and looked good for the most part (still alot of growth needed, admittedly).
I’m curious what are your thoughts on Huntley if we are given little choice in retaining Wilson?
Guess it depends on cost. What do you spend on an undrafted free agent? I could see it for a fifth I guess if he keeps playing like he is.
I watch a lot of Utah and he is a game manager through and through. Very limited pass attempts.
I think I’d like him in a competition.
With the ravens looking at paying an injured Lamar Jackson if I were them I would not trade him since a good back up is important.
I really don’t know what to think of this mess we’ve gotten ourselves into. There really aren’t many positives to this season. We can’t draft for crap. We don’t sign many impact players, instead try finding “value” bums like Greg Olsen, Everrett, Hollister, BJ Finney, Ogbuehi, etc.
What do we do well? On defense we give up lots of yards well. We make stops to make the scoreboard look respectable, but we love giving up those yards.
What do we do well on offense? Can’t throw consistently. Can’t run consistently. We consistently suck, which I guess is something.
About the best thing I can say is we have a good punter.
Schneider is a trade artist. Except for Jamal, I was constantly puzzled on how he was able to fleece other teams. PCJS have been very good in the later rounds of the draft and especially signing undrafted players. Jake Curhan, Poona Ford, and ADB come to mind, there were more.
I think Russ is gone, and our best trade partner are the Eagles. They send us 2 first rounders (one of the high 2022 & 2023), 2 second rounders (or the low 2022 first rounder), and Minshew, which would make a good “bridge” QB until we have a good QB draft or sign a blockbuster trade.
Of course, there’s more draft value trading with the Giants. Currently they hold the 5th and 6th overall picks, and if JS is still with the team, he can work his trade down magic with one of them, since as far as I understand from Rob’s posts, this draft has more “bang for buck” in the second and third rounds. Getting 4 or 5 picks during Day 2 could build a great team except for the most important player.
(I would also consider trading Metcalf to the Lions for Amon-Ra plus their low 1st rounder and their high 2nd rounder).
To beat a dead horse, Pete absolutely must go. Last night, I stated that he should step aside now that they’re out of contention. It’s the right move for the franchise. But think about it from his pov: financially, if you’re Pete, it doesn’t make sense to step down. Make them fire you and pay out the entirety of the contract you signed just last year. It’s a little more humiliating, but you’re probably talking upwards of $30m. (If anyone wants to humiliate me by very publicly firing me for $30m, please get in touch; we can work something out.) Why leave that cash on the table? Get assurances of getting paid before announcing anything, if you’re Pete.
Jody, for her part, shouldn’t hesitate. Pay the man, send him on his way. Go hire Nathaniel Hackett and rebuild the franchise with a new GM. The downside is that Hackett may not be available until February, but that’s true for most of the guys worth having.
Whatever.
Don’t allow Pete or JS to determine the package you get for Russ or how to spend it. Let one of those analytical hotshot GM candidates with an advanced math degree from Harvard come in and triangulate some mind-blowing moves. I could be down with that.
Trubisky.
The owners would approach him with a settlement.
Neither side wants it to get ugly.
Sadly, I don’t think we can blame Russell’s finger for his poor performance. He’s played poorly since the middle of last year. He doesn’t run anymore so there’s no more magic. He’s stuck being a pocket passer – a *short* pocket passer who doesn’t hit the middle of the field and gets stuck when defenses use two high safeties.
Trade him. Get rid of Pete. Start over. I can’t watch another season of this.
Any thoughts on who you would bring in to replace him?
Jimmy G., Carr, Love or Rodgers, Darnold, Matt Ryan, Dalton, Winston
Others: Minshew, Bridgewater, D Jones, and Philly seems to be sour on Hurts.
Many would require trade or teams cutting players.
3 1sts and Hurts with Philly works for me. If Rodgers demanded release then ya, bring him in. I still think Jimmy G or Darnold are best fits coming from teams that clearly don’t want them (but not necessarily saying I want them either), but if I had to choose between reasonably likely scenarios along with the context of blowing up the ship, then Jimmy and Sam seem like as good of fits as any for the rebuild imho.
That list tacitly admits we would be right back to charlie whitehurst territory.
Thats the curse we are in. Sure rebuild. A very strong csde could be made for that. How many teams have been building over this century with no luck? I mean really getting good pkayers and still not getting all the pieces together.
Holmgren had his guy come over. And Pete had an amazing rebuild plus a huge dose of luck that the league at the time thought Wilson couldn’t play.
.
I’ve scoured free agents and if fans think Wilson has lost it most of the names listed are totally done (matt ryan) or never had it (winston, probably darnold) minshew is sort of interesting but who knows what he really is.
Bridgewater is cooked. Jones….who knows….jimmy g is as bad in his own way as Wilson is for his own way.
I would trade for Hurts and/or Tyler Huntley. Use the picks/free agency to build the offensive line and strengthen the defense. Bring in Doug Peterson as head coach. Get rid of Pete. Get rid of John. Their drafting decisions have been horrible and for that they deserve to be fired. Their personnel decisions have also been baffling. Who didn’t know that moving Reed to the left side would be a mistake? Why did it take so long for Pete to correct it? Who didn’t know that moving Lewis to left guard would also be foolish? When will they correct that error?
I really do think RW is done. He’s now a one trick pony who throws a great deep ball – and he couldn’t even do that yesterday. All of his positive talk is just a joke now. He wants to be the best who ever played – but he’s just not. And now he’s 33. The potential is gone. He isn’t going to get better. For the last few years, he seems to be more focused on building his brand outside of football and enjoying his fame. It was more important for him to get the headline that he recovered “in just four weeks!!!” instead of waiting until he was fully healed. It hurt the team. We probably would have had a better shot of winning that Packers game with Geno Smith!
I’m sick of the boring offense, the 3 and outs, the unnecessary sacks, and watching our receivers getting open and not getting the ball. It’s time for a major change. It sucks but I just can’t watch another season of this.
I appreciate all of the analysis done by Rob on this blog and the podcasts by Hawkblogger. It has made the season so much more enjoyable. I doubt bloggers for other teams are anywhere near as insightful.
Why in the world would Rodgers want to go to the Hawks? The Oline stinks. The running game stinks. The D can’t get off the field most of the year.
If green bay doesn’t win this year I see Rodgers in Denver. Elway doingvthe manning again. Can build a grwat team but for the life of that team they can’t find a QB.
Denver is ready to roll with a great QB next year.
Roy, I don’t personally like Rodgers or have any clue what he’d do if released. I think he’s a clown. And sure there are issues you listed, some of which are greatly exacerbated by RWs pocket presence or lack thereof when scrambling early or holding onto the ball too long, or rarely simply 3 steps and boom timing routes. Rodgers wouldn’t have those issues which would mitigate the Oline pass blocking woes. Plus he’d would get to throw to Metcalf & Lockett; which I’d imagine many QBs would love to have that opportunity.
Rich Eisen chipping in
https://youtu.be/ucn-UQ9-Lwk
Allen’s action or inaction in the next 30 days will say everything we need to know about ownership. Strong leaders don’t hesitate to do what they know needs to be done. There’s no need to manage the press here nor keep the troops filled hope playing out the next 3 lame duck games.
The only reason I see at this point to care about whether they win or not is where they would have been slated to draft. Even if it’s a garbage draft, it will feel better losing a 10-20 pick for Adams than it will a top 10 one. It’s the little things.
I think that’s a sunk cost at this point. Might as well root for them to lose and improve the R2 pick if that’s your angle. If they win without Adams, it also supports the fact they shouldn’t have given the pick in the first place.
I’m much more concerned about who is drafting next year than I am worried about where their picks are.
I totally agree on all points. There’s just a small, irrational part of me that want the first round pick to be lower. We wasted two picks, but somehow a lower pick will make the waste a little more tolerable. I didn’t like thee Adams trade from the jump. If it had been one 1st rounder, it might have been ok, but they wasted so much capital on a safety. Should have stuck with McDougald and filled holes with the picks. Water under the bridge, I suppose.
Get it. Really do. But high second and high third actually have some value in areas this team needs. Just trying to think of the positives.
That’s true. I just keep thinking of Trader John using that high first and trading steadily downward to get several additional 2-4 round picks.
Or if we trade him. We want to beat Chicago so the Giants keep 2 high picks.
A possibility I’ve been thinking about would be:
–Prior to the last 2 in the season, Allen & JS secretly meet & start an informal HC search quietly.
-After last game: PC retires, with a “negotiated” exit package & maybe even? is offered a consultant role.
–Then -Allen leans on JS to find their new coach in earnest, this would indicate JS stays on the job with the HC he hires and feels he can work with to rebuild the team.
–The new coach has flexibility to decide about RW, either plan to build around him properly -or- trade him as well as other players like Metcalf, Wagner et. al. The new HC will bring in good Assistants that he can work well with. Any new HC needs to have his own vision of the future for the team.
Change will happen in some form & this one seems fairly realistic to me, much more so than all 3 gone.
Another thought, RW will still be under contract next year & it would be unlike him to hold out, so he may strongly consider making things better with a new HC if it’s indicated that the Seahawks don’t want to trade him, or the trade package is deemed lacking.
Lots of faith in JS who helped oversee this horrendous reset. No thanks. He’s out with PC in my opinion.
Did anyone else feel that Brooks had a pretty solid night. I haven’t looked at pff or anything but he does seem like a potential bright spot on the D. I actually think we have more talent on defense than the results would indicate. Pay Diggs and find a real number 1 corner to leave Reed as a great number 2. With Neal/Ugo that seems like a capable back end. Build around Taylor, Poona and Brooks up front.
If we can keep Russ all we need is a couple guys on the line. A center and a LT for when Brown goes. We have great receivers. I think Everett looks ok as well. He plays hard and makes plays. I dont trust Penny yet but maybe he can be part of a successful back field. Proper drafting can find a great back in the mid rounds.
Basically I feel like 22 can be a better season and we can be competing seriously again by 23 if we can convince Russ to stay. The next couple months will be interesting but perhaps the sky isn’t falling.
Thanks Rob for another fine year of writing, you have indeed been the best part of this poor season. This will be a critical offseason (again) for the Seahawks and will either be the first step in getting back into contention or, if handled poorly, another hurdle to overcome in the years ahead. Here’s my take:
1. This team has been mismanaged and badly coached for years now. The litany of poor drafting and free agency signings far outweighs the occasional good trade or fortunate draft pick. There isn’t any recognizable draft strategy/philosophy and the coaching and lack of adjustments by the coaching staff show they have little else to offer in way of improvement. As much as people may argue for keeping one or the other, neither Pete or John deserve a second chance with this organization.
2. As difficult as it may be, Russ should be traded. This team is in serious need of quality draft picks and cap space to begin the rebuild. Russ is the only player able to bring you that kind of value. Again, this would be presuming a new front office to be making these picks and not watching Schneider trade down repeatedly in the hopes that one or two picks might work out. That’s not what a quality GM does, that’s a way to just being held accountable for your poor drafting. Take the approach that you may be trading Russ a year or two early and avoiding the possibility that he actually may be in decline. I’d even consider taking a reduced haul if you can include Adams in that deal for cap relief.
3. Only keep Bobby W. If you can negotiate his cap hit way down. He’s been a great player and we want to give him a good sendoff but it can’t be at $20M next year. Myers also needs to be cut, you can’t pay that much for a kicker that has had such a bad year, everything about his game this year has been in decline. The same goes for Chris Carson, no more money for past glories instead of current needs.
4. Priorities for re-signing are Quandre Diggs along with Reed and Green. They’ve been the main signs of life in a bad defense. Keep Metcalf unless you’re blown away with an offer.
5. In a down year for skill players, do the research and focus your draft on the offensive and defense lines. You’re also going to need some quality, young linebackers through the draft or free agency to keep up in this division and league.
Let’s hope that Jody Allen has the smarts to clean house when she needs to and that Pete bows out gracefully this year rather than insisting on one more year to do his full goodbye. The short term future improvement for this franchise is in peril unless tough but necessary steps are taken.
Rob once again very interesting topic.the Giants would be likely over pay because they are the biggest market and can’t go into next season with Daniel Jones can you. Denver is one QB away they locked up they’re young receivers and good young RB they have a boatload of draft capital.one more thought Rob if Pete leaves at the end of the year would the Las Vegas Raiders appeal to him Carr is serveable have a decent RB and close to Los Angeles.Vegas has to blow it up
Press Conf today…
Art Thiel: With a losing season and no playoffs, the void will be filled inevitably by speculation about the Seahawks’ operations and people. Can you describe right now your degree of comfort and commitment to ownership, the management team and to Russell Wilson?
PC (laughing): What a question…(looks left off camera, looks right off camera). Uh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I’m in good shape. Feeling fine about where we are. We’re just battling for these games right now, Art. That’s all we’re doing. There’s no conversation about anything. And there’s no really, no concern about anything past getting through this thing right here, getting back to the game plan that’s hurried this week. That’s it, really. There’s no time spent on it, there’s no conversations, we’re just digging in every day and we’re doing the work that we do. That’s all I can help you with on that one.
I heard him ask the question and was pleased. Of course Pete’s not gonna give him an answer though. Wish he woulda said “we got to do better, we have to play better and I need to be better” or something along those lines.
Great question
Is there anything faker than coach speak outside of political speeches?
“We’re battling.”
For what. Gold stars. You play to win THEE game. As in the superbowl. Not to have a not as bad losing record.
I would prefer something like “we’re gonna let the young guys play and look to the future.”
Get pete a capri sun and some orange slices. He’s obviously getting low on energy ftom talking out his ass.
“Well Art, i’ll have you know I was doing the playoff simulator on ESPN and if we win out and four other teams get trapped in a space time worm hole and can’t make the playoffs we’re right there in it.”
I hear you but I was just pleased at the question being asked. 90% of the questions in that press conference were about COVid protocols, injury updates and bad calls by the refs. Art came off as the only guy in the room who figured out where the real story is.
PC clearly didn’t like the question. But it was 100% fair game and frankly the only question worth asking.
The comment box scroll was full of fans questioning the teams future. Nobody was wanting to know more about how Gerald Everett’s COVid case broke new ground.
You’re absolutely right Cha.
A question like that had to be asked. And it didn’t matter how Carroll answered it. You’ve just got to ask.
You can’t assume he will play it all down. That’s like giving up because you’re two scores down in the fourth. Ask the question just in case you get a fantastic answer. Be seen to be on top of what is ‘the’ storyline at the moment regarding this team.
As you say, some of this covid talk might be necessary for certain articles talking strictly about that issue. But there was a LOT of covid talk and one challenging question on the future of the franchise. I would suggest there should’ve been more — on Carroll’s future, Wilson’s future. Does it feel, as some are saying, like it’s the end of an era?
National shows are debating that. It’s perfectly fair game to ask about it. And it’s all anyone really wants to know about or discuss.
PC “Feeling fine about where we are”
Does anyone else in the VMAC feel that way today?
Does ownership tell PC that they are fine about it?
I don’t know a single Seahawks fan that is feeling fine about where we are or how we got here
I’d also argue it forces Pete to think about it some more and come up with more to say on it.
His reaction (looking off camera to his press guy with a ‘get a load of this guy and his question’ smirk) to me evidences that he doesn’t like or expect uncomfortable questions no matter how obvious they are.
Remember how he tamped down Joe Fann pretty hard about a poor offensive performance and then said after losing to the Rams in the playoffs after a carbon copy poor performance that he had ‘no space in his head to envision a loss’? Getting a similar vibe with Art’s question. He has no headspace to envision getting fired, or having to make major decisions about Russ, anything but a 100% positive outcome for the Seahawks despite a train wreck of a season.
Asking those questions (and continuing to do so) strips that delusion away.
I actually think when he does that it shows a serious weakness within Carroll.
He always looks at the media team when anyone asks a tricky question, as if to say ‘get a load of this guy’.
It’s poor.
Difficult questions are part of the job.
Just answer them.
As long as Pete doesn’t say that it “feels like 2012”.
Though, a couple of victories at the end of the season and that’s probably what he will say.
Unfortunately we may not even get a couple of wins if players keep checking out.
For years stateside nstional shows were unbelievably slow on figuring ot what to say about Seattle.
Now Simms has good takes. Eisen and Cowherd sometimes border on having an intern reading your coverage. Most notably in pieces Cha shared with Cowherd talking about bad drafting and Eisen shooting down a teade Russ and then Bring in Watson by saying, paraphrasing here: “how would that trade help they need help all over the team.” It was a real opener how the national media is reading the room better than anyone at the Vmac minus Thiel.
I want to know why isn’t Russ running more. Why he is suddenly a drop back passer? Is this a Russ thing, a Shane thing, a Pete thing? Why? The league has all these qbs running around and mixing in passes and all that and Russ suddenly is Drew Brees or Peyton Manning, why? The answer would give a lot of information about who is really at fault with the offenses struggles. I believe Russ in a moving pocket and the read options, the RPO’s is when Russ is at his best and this team has just quit doing all that. Does anyone know why?
Great write up as always Rob. Thank you for this blog.
Reasons for this down season have been discussed for some time now, it’s all so obvious. But end of an era is right. I think the rest of this season I’m just going to appreciate some of these players still being in a Hawks uniform and reflect on the good times we had.
Rich Eisen on Russ’ trade market and why the Seahawks need to make decisions soon.
https://youtu.be/lH4lD8GDYQc
Albert Breer with Eisen agrees that the Seahawks need to get ahead of the other teams with veteran QBs to trade but ponders if PC has a stomach for a rebuild.
https://youtu.be/1jVmxWlgRgg
Breer one of the few reporters nationally who analyses individual teams like he directly covers them for a living. That piece could’ve been said by any of us. It’s such a credit to him that he’s on top of things, despite not covering this patch.
Pretty good points. I like the idea of setting the market. Do not like the idea of the trade value.
I don’t need graphs and charts. Wilson is worth more due to ever rising prices and yep, being better minus one year than stafford ever was in detroit.
Maybe this year first and second and next yesr first and third.
But not this years first and next years first and third. If russ goes ot there and russ’ next years first will be pretty low.
I do think eisen is on to something with the team Russ, and metcalf.
Breer and Eisen both make alot of sense on getting things figured out quickly.
Rob’s been saying this for awhile.
I don’t agree with Eisen’s view on Wilson’s worth. A 2021 1st, 2022 1st & 3rd.
So same package we got for Adams.
That would be embarrassing for the Seahawks, but sadly a fitting end.
I just don’t see how you accept anything less than both 2021 1sts.
I’m so hoping Jody decides she wants to keep RW and figures out a way to fo it.
Unfortunately it’s feeling more and more like Wilson’s gone & we get a less than enspiring package for him.
Heck I was thinking possibly two 1sts for Metcalf. Just shows how truly bad the Adams trade was.
To quote cowherd “a box safety who can’t cover,” can bot be worth the same as Wilson who cha has covered will actually feel like a reasonably priced qb in the coming years.
It would take a lot more than what Eisen is pitching there.
And desperate teams will pay the asking price.
All this talk about blowing it up is ridiculous. It’s very possible that Russ could push for a trade and Schneider would do it. But he shouldn’t.
The Seahawks have been a top 10 scoring offense every year that Russ has been here except 2016 and 2017. Those two years they couldn’t find a consistent RB, but in 2017 they were 11th in scoring offense. They were 8th last year with the same personnel as this year and a pretty vanilla, mediocre offensive coordinator. Waldron makes Schottenheimer look like a genius. That’s how bad Waldron is. Waldron is 100% of the problem and Russ is the reason he is here. If Russ leaves after sticking us with the worst offensive coordinator in league history it would be a move that would permanently damage his legacy in Seattle. I don’t think he will do it.
To be fair, 100% on Waldron might be an exaggeration, but it’s in the 90’s. Carson getting didn’t help, and Russ’ injury too. But the play calling issues were apparent against the Colts and were the reason for the collapse against Tennessee.
Ken Norton is a terrible coordinator, and Pete should have fired him years ago. Pete’s defensive scheme is great, but the lack of any creativity and terrible situational calls have made a very good defense predictable and beatable. The two best examples are the playoff losses in 2018 and 2019. Trailing Dallas by 2, he inexplicably has a 3rd string corner playing on the edge in an obvious Ezekiel Elliot moment. I don’t think the kid had played a snap all year, he blew his assignment, Zeke got the corner and ended the game. Then on 3rd and long, down 5 to Green Bay, he gets Ugo Amadi, who had played great as a nickel, lined up man to man on Devante Adams with no help. Adams was their only threat and Norton blew that call with the game on the line. I call his defense the Norton Flex. Give them exactly what they need to win, but nothing more. He probably saved his job with the way the defense has played, but situationally he sucks.
Bottom line is, this team, this year with even a mediocre offensive coordinator, beats Tennessee, beats Pittsburgh, beats New Orleans, beats Arizona, WFT, and the Rams. They’d be sitting at 11-3 in first place, and this conversation isn’t even happening. The only house cleaning that needs to be done is getting rid of Waldron and Norton, and to stop letting Russell Wilson make organizational decisions.
If Waldron and Norton have to go so too does the guy who hired them.
Oh and if you really think Waldron was 100% on RW, you don’t understand how PC operates.
With the assumption that Russ wants out and Pete is gone:
GM – Schneider (unless management knows more than we do)
Head Coach – Kellen Moore (Give me the exciting young, offensive minded coach)
Defensive Coordinator – Find a proven veteran defensive minded coach to pair up with Moore
Trade Russ to the giants – #4, #5 + the giant’s #1 and 3 next season
Trade DK – two mid-round 1’s
Cut Wagner
Cut or trade Adams (yeah it doesn’t make financial sense, but he’s not part of the long term plan and he’s taking up a roster spot that could go to a young player)
Say goodbye to Carson and Penny
QB – approach the Vikings about giving them one of the DK picks for Kellen Mond. Otherwise, don’t make any long-term commitments.
Focus on the trenches, try to make a splash or two in free agency.
Go after Terron Armstead to anchor the OL.
Go after Randy Gregory or Von Miller.
Draft OL and DL with the first two picks this year. Draft RB with our Second RD pick.
Overall we’d probably suck in 2022, but I also don’t think Russ turns the tides for the Giants. We’d probably be looking at mid-high 2023 picks. In 2023 the cap should be a lot cleaner as well. So, in year two of the new era the team should be in a good position with cap and draft capitol.
Yeah, it could be painful, but at least it would be entertaining. (Unlike the usual)
You want to trade a first for Mond?? I’d personally rather have Huntley if we’re trading for a current backup
“Twas the night before the end of the NFL season, when all through Seahawks fandom,
Not a Seahawks fan was stirring, not even Rob Stanton;
Their thoughts on the Seahawks were all posted on SDB with care,
In hopes that Jody Allen would soon answer their prayers;
The 12’s were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of Super Bowls danced in their heads;
And the wife in here ‘kerchief, and I in my Seahawks cap,
Had just settled our brains for a long off seasons nap,
When out on the VMAC field arose such a clatter,
I sprang from my off-season slumber to see what was the matter.
Away to the TV I flew like a flash,
Tore open a beer and turned the TV to blast.
The moon on the breast of a new-fallen day,
Gave a lustre of midday with new ideas in play,
When what to my wondering eyes did appear,
But a very large limo filled with Vulcans whose presence was unclear,
With a sweet older driver who seemed ready to challenge,
I knew in a moment she must be Jody Allen.
More rapid than eagles her curses they came,
And she whistled, and shouted, and called them by name:
Now, Carroll! now, Schneider! now, Waldron and Norton!
Go, Smith! go, Hurtt! go, Solari and Morton!
Once at the top of the great NFL, a front office full of hubris did hasten your fall!
Now get out! get out! get away all!”
As leaves that before the wild hurricane fly,
Jody proclaimed 12’s I have answered your prayers, while gazing toward the sky;
So up to the VMAC a helicopter did flew,
With, a new head coach and GM too;
I could not believe what I had just heard, and as I was turning around,
Out jumped the new head coach with a leap and a bound.
First greeting the press and stating Russell Wilson will stay,
Was met by Big Mike’s shouting with much dismay.
Rob Stanton stepped forward saying he’s not a big fan,
And assured everyone if it continues, he will be banned;
The head coach and GM then named all their coaching staff hires,
And assured everyone if they couldn’t do their jobs they would be fired;
Cha brought up the quality of his weekly watch points refusing to be deterred,
And the head coach made certain, Cha’s watch points would be heard;
Pete and John’s firing over which the 12’s so obsessed,
Leaves all the Seahawks fandom no longer depressed.
With all said and done, the NFL Draft now in full view,
The new head coach grabbed Rob’s mock draft, off to the VMAC he did flew;
But I heard him exclaim, ere he went out of sight—
“Happy New Seahawks Era to all, and to all a good night!”
Brilliant (tho I certainly wouldn’t shout with much dismay if indeed Russell Wilson did stay).
What an effort!!
thanks for the christmas uplift!
Just thought a Christmas spin on things would be nice 🙂
Alas, all those 12s began to accept
Waving bye bye to an era and wept
In karma we trust, and soon we began to admit
To get decent M’s requires C-hawks turn shit
Masterfully Done. Cheers on that bit of literary happiness just before Christmas.
Happy Holidays
Count me in on the trade russ side. I understand you need a qb and he can’t be replaced and the team will be in a bad spot. I don’t say this lightly and I’m also not saying Pete over wilson. Pete has lost his way so has wilson. JS should stay imo, obviously we don’t know what’s going on in the front offense but it feels like to me that JS hands are tied and is only act on what Pete wants.
To me, wilson has already made up his mind and wants out. Everything he’s done and said this off-season looks like a player trying to force his way out without actually saying he wants out. I’ve said a number of times put smith in, not because he’s better but because he plays within the system and it looks like wilson is playing his own system and that will never work.
I look at obj and how people are split about obj isn’t good or it was all bakers fault. I don’t think either is right, I feel obj didn’t like the system and wanted out. That made him freelance and do his own thing by running routes how he wanted and not how they were designed. This in returned broke the system in place. I think this is where wilson is now with the hawks and there’s no fixing this issue. I didn’t think obj sucks and I don’t think wilson does but obj was sucking and so is wilson. The only option for obj was a divorce and I feel it’s the same for wilson now.
Outside the box Coaching search query:
If given proven OC and DC, how would people feel about entertaining thoughts of Deion Sanders for a head coach position? He’s got charisma in spades and shown remarkable performance for a HBCU rising to national credibility which is saying something given HBCU’s empirical competitive disadvantage in the college football landscape. Or another way to put it is – he’s overachieving, players like him, he knows what it takes to be excellent in the NFL. And, he’d be anything if not fun during what may be painful rebuilding seasons.
If you want to deal Wilson, this is what you want to do… you just don’t know that this is what you want because you always think things will be “different” this time:
Jeff Kemp
Kelly Stouffer
Dan McGwire
Stan Gelbaugh
Rick Mirer
John Friesz
Jon Kitna
Glenn Foley
Most of the guys above were acquired with “good intentions”. They were a stopgap, a guy who would put the team “over the top”, or whatever… that turned out to be a horrible decade. I left out Warren Moon because he was a washed up has been at the time he became a Seahawk.
Regardless of who those losers (above) played with, it obviously wasn’t good enough. Cortez Kennedy? Seahawks sucked with him. Chad Brown? Seahawks sucked with him in the late 90s. Jacob Green? Seahawks sucked with him in the early 90s. Moral of the story is every NFL team, no matter how horrible, has at least some good players every year, including HOF greats.
Tom Flores? He’s headed to the Pro Football Hall of Fame as a Head Coach. Personally, I thought he was a worthless loser (I’d feel differently if he was a Raiders fan).
Dennis Erickson? Inherited a great college program and won a National Championship… but worthless loser in Seattle, for the most part (but drafted Walter Jones).
I’m not interested in Trent Dilfer, T-Jack, or Geno. For good reason.
But, heck, if you can PROMISE me our idiot drafting patrol can get a new age Russell Wilson in ANY round – then I’m all for dealing him. I’d happily settle for a Matt Hasselbeck (in his prime).
If you want to remember the first 25 years of the Seahawks trying to find a QB, I pity you. But you also know that a franchise QB doesn’t grow on trees. Unless you are a Lions, Bears, Jets, etc. fan.
I agree Flores was riding on the coattails from what madden built. Erickson was a decent scout, but that’s probably from his college days
Wilson era fans may not get how bad that era was so I found an analog in today’s NFL. Complete with a team that is currently last in their division but is absolutely stacked on personel. I present the Cleveland Browns:
2010 Colt Mcoy, 3rd round
2012 Brandon Weeden, 1st round
2014 Johnny Manzeil, 1st round
2016 Cody Kessler. 3rd round
2017 Deshone Kizer, 2nd Round
2018 Baker Mayfield, 1st round
While also having: Brian Hoyer, Austin Davis, Josh Mcown, RG3, Kevin Hogan, Tyrod Taylor.
Trade Wilson if it’s going to happen. Fans seem to forget that teams flounder for a very long while to get it right. Even in this century when Haselbeck finally couldn’t go this team did through three coaches before drafting Wilson. Heck look at our division. The niners spent a lot of these last 20 years having hope and almost catching lightning with Kaepernick until that ended. The team ruined Alex Smith. They also got a ton of high draft picks compared to Seattle this last decade and are not any closer to winning than our team. The rams have been close but even this last year had to swap former first round picks trying to get it right. And the cards got worse and worse after Warner couldn’t go including drafting Rosen and one year later drafting Murray (who looks legit for them)
The blog has discussed at length why it is foolish to trade Wilson and how RARE franchise QB’s are.
That said, your post misses a key consideration: What if Wilson does not want to be here? What if he’s done? Keeping an unhappy QB is not something that is recommended.
A lot of the “my goodness man, why would you ever trade a franchise QB” presumes that Wilson is and will be a happy camper being a Seattle Seahawk.
I do not think that is the case, which makes the argument that any replacement is not likely to be as good irrelevant.
Wilson wants to be here
But only with significant changes
After watching Wilson in L.A. He was missing passes that are his strength. Is it the finger?.He’s had plenty of weeks since coming back from the injury.
The major question is, did he come back too soon?…The answer is obviously YES. The bigger question is, will this injury take away his major strength for the rest of his career?
These are valid questions for his future here, AND his future somewhere else. If he has lost his ability to throw the bomb accurately, what team is going to pony up a truckload of players/picks for him?
And for the Hawks and their current regime…..they REQUIRE him to make those plays in order to win.
Either way, none of this is good at this point. Now if he pulls a rabbitt out of the hat and gets back to accuracy that may change things.
Plenty of weeks isn’t enough, I would say, to properly recover from an injury that significant to your throwing hand. Especially when you’re practising every day and playing games.
But taking the chance that he can get back to something akin to his best is still more preferable than watching even another series of Geno Smith.
What evidence is there that he came back too soon? He has a 103 Passer rating on the season. He played like shit against the Rams, he missed a wide open throw with the game on the line. But the reality is that the offense has been terrible all year. Guys are not open. Why? They can’t run the ball. Why? How is DK Metcalf not open? Do teams not scheme to stop Devante Adam’s? Yes, they do. And the offense schemes him open. Shane Waldron sucks. He is out of his depth. He’s a bad play caller, his playbook is weak, he is NOT McVay nor is he any kind of McVay disciple. He worked in the building with the guy. The guy should be coaching pop Warner. And if he coached Pop Warner he would want to bring Gerald Everett with him and try as hard as he could to force the ball to him, but not WR1, WR2, RB1, or the best TE on the roster which is Dissley. Everett is ultra talented too, but this offensive scheme is garbage.
First of all, it’s painfully obvious Wilson came back to quick and his play showed that immediately after he took the field for more than one game. Regardless of that, will he EVER recover from it?…After getting older the body doesn’t heal the way it used to, and this in spite of the best medicine and therapy known to man, there are no guarantees. He rarely runs anymore which means he knows the fragility of getting older and he wants to prolong his career, so he’s always looking for the “big play”.
Secondly, there have been 3 O.C.’s in 5 years and what do we see?….We see the same shit with all 3 of them. So what does that say?…It says that maybe it doesn’t matter who the OC is in this system and the same can be said for the DC as well.
Peyton Manning missed an entire season with a serious neck injury.
And then went to the Broncos and set records.
This finger injury just needs proper time to heal.
Schottenheimer had a top 10 scoring offense every year he was here. He had a top 5 run offense 2 out of 3 years, including the #1 run offense in 2017. Bevel had a top 10 scoring offense most years he was here, and had a top 5 run offense for 4 years straight. I always thought Bevell was terrible at game planning, he was predictable as a play caller, but he made awesome in game adjustments. Russ succeeded with both of those guys, played like a Hall of Famer. Russ chose Waldron and Waldron sucks. He shouldn’t have made it past week 5. His scheme is garbage, his play calling is terrible, and it’s even worse on 3rd down and only part of that is because he is so bad on 1st and 2nd.
If Pete had fired Norton 3 years ago, with Schottenheimer who is admittedly mediocre, the Seahawks had a chance to get another Championship. I personally think our defensive personnel is good enough to win. We have stars across the offense. They need to get the Oline some better talent, and they need more depth on the D Line, but this is not an overhaul. Ditch Waldron today, whether Russ is staying or going. Sadly, Norton is probably staying at least one more year because the Defense has not given up points despite being a sieve. Russ will get healthy and he will be the all-time Seattle Seahawk.
I’d love to see ownership commit to Wilson and bring Sean Payton on as the new head coach and vp of football operations. But I have the sinking feeling that he is going to be coaching Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville next season. I’d also be intrigued to see what happens if Schneider is the one who stays on. In that case, Nate Hackett would have to be a candidate to replace Carroll. Still, I wonder what his offense would look like without a top QB. In any case, it appears that Wilson is probably gone after this season. Rob, what do you think about WFT as a dark horse in the race acquire his services?
I can’t see Payton in Jacksonville. That’s not a franchise I can see him being interested in at all.
I could see Washington potentially — but they are a franchise in flux with another old school, defensive minded HC. So that will be a turn off.
This would require the franchise to get a lot more pro-active. And the time for being pro-active is already running out, fast.
The point Cha has been saying for like a year and half which is Russell would be very affordable for the two years to whichever team acquired him is really important. If you can’t get a king’s ransom for Russell Wilson in this QB market with two years on what is now a friendly contract then you don’t trade him. You have to go the other direction and follow Rob’s suggestion and bring someone like Payton to Russell. The problem is I think given the division and lack of draft capital, it is unlikely we would compete for a SB next year in any scenario. The roster isn’t close and the GM would have to hit on too many moves. It’s possible but it would have to be a pretty incredible offseason. Would Russell Wilson be content to let yet another year go by “rebuilding?” I’m skeptical. The whole tap dance this summer was to set up what I think is coming very quickly which is Russell Wilson demands a trade out of Seattle. I don’t want Seattle to trade Wilson. I know how hard it is to find a franchise QB being a lifelong Seahawk fan. But unfortunately, it is increasingly likely.
We’ve got to remember though — cut Wagner and you have millions and millions to spend.
You would have some flexibility, at least.
I cannot get my head around the possibility that the ‘Hawks would even consider paying Wagner $20 million next year… Could they REALLY be that blinkered!?!? Stay tuned.
They paid Jamal Adams. At least Wags is a leader and a play maker. We are paying the worst SS in the league more than any other Safety. You think Diggs will stick around being the second highest paid safety when he outperforms Adams in every single way? Wagner and Brooks are a great tandem. Norton’s defense puts them in the worst possible situation. If Wagner leaves he’s a first team all pro wherever he lands, watch.
What playmaking is Wagner doing?
How is he leading this year?
Why is Wagner and Brooks a great tandem?
Wagner’s majorly on the downturn, he’s playing with hesitancy and actively is putting plays on tape where he appears to be purposely avoiding contact.
That’s the brutal reality I’m afraid.
Do you think they could get a midround pick for Wagner? Or does his cap hit make that too difficult?
I highly, highly doubt it
Are we really acting like the leading tackler in the league is NOT making plays? Brooks and Wagner have looked bad in pass coverage in large part because playing a soft zone and rushing 4 on every single down is overtaxing the linebackers. Norton is making them look bad with his horrible situational decision making.
How is he leading? This defense is a sieve by design. Last in the league in yards. And somebody is keeping them together and getting them to stiffen up. I think it’s Wagner and Diggs. Adams sure isn’t any kind of leader. He’s overpaid and talks more than he performs. What I see in Brooks a tackle machine that is out of place where he is at. I think if you put Tampa’s LBs in Norton’s flex defense they look like shit too.
Rob,
I also wanted to compliment you. This article feels repetitive and recycled because you’ve written a version of it many times before. You were the only person I know of who objectively looked at the team, saw what was happening, and asked the tough questions. And you did it WAY before anyone else did. Excellent work these last two years. You were right. And you were right a lot sooner than any other “expert” or “insider” and many of the trolls on twitter these last few years will admit in the coming months.
Thank you
I think we’ve been discussing so many important topics here, that have been largely ignored in many other places or at least not discussed with the same level of detail and seriousness… and got a lot of grief for doing so.
The Rams loss was just a gut punch to add the an already bleak situation for this team. This year was never going to be the year. The (slim) hope for an energized offense carrying the team behind an promising offensive coach fell flat. Oddly the D seemed to keep us in games we had no business being in, and the offense somehow regressed. Yes, Wilsons injury contributed, but I think its fair to say that wasn’t the only reason.
I don’t know what the future holds for coaches and the QB. I can’t point to an obvious replacement for either. Waldron certainly hasn’t dazzled with potential as a future coach candidate. Obviously, I’ll be keeping tabs with what you have to say Rob, because I think we have a few years of this to look forward to. It would just be nice to have the feeling of momentum building towards something.
Add in the officiating, game rescheduling, etc. to have the season officially end on. I’m remiss to wave the “its rigged” conspiracy flag, but it’s hard to deny that there was a string of oddly convenient events that contributed to the loss. I remember feeling this way after we lost to the Steelers in the super bowl. This recent loss just drums up that old mistrust that this league is as impartial as it claims.
The thing is, if the refs called a fair game, there’s still a good likelihood we would have lost. Its not like it was realistic that we would make a legit superbowl run. I don’t think the game needed to be interfered with. And even if we had won, the NFL darling Rams still had a good shot at the postseason.
So now im just sitting here, mulling over how we need to rebuild a franchise to be good enough to beat the NFC, and the officials. Because if it’s a close game, i just expect at this point the get screwed by the refs. I guess it’s part of the DNA of being a hawks fan.
Bears place Akhiem Hicks on the COVID list. That’s big if he misses Sunday’s game.
There’s a tremendous incentive for Jody Allen to provide managerial certainty EARLY in the calendar. Whether she keeps Pete and/or John or not. Consider:
Option 1: Jody fires Pete (and probably John) right after Week 18 and Russ agrees to stay:
Russ would have an opportunity to be part of the search process, maybe skew the head coach candidates towards the offensive genius he is craving.
Option 2: Jody fires Pete (and probably John) right after Week 18 but Russ elects to leave anyway:
The new front office will have maximum time to put their heads together and figure out what package of assets best suits the franchise, among the teams that Russ is willing to be traded to.
Option 3 – Jody gives a public seal of approval to both of them after Week 18:
Russ would be gone, but at least Pete and John will be giving 100% of their time and energy into roster construction, which is sort of like a cherry on top of a terrible-tasting sundae.
Finally, Option 4 – Jody, Pete and John continue to not address the elephant in the room:
Russ is all but gone, rumors/speculation continue to swirl, and Pete and John have one eye on roster construction and the other eye on landing a new gig. Worst option in the bunch.
John Clayton just said on his 710 segment with Stelton and Wyman, that it would be a problem if we didn’t play to win the next few games (the question was if we should rest players like Wagner, to play younger players like Barton), because if our record is too bad, then people may start questioning whether Pete should be the coach going forward.
He actually believes that Pete *should* be the coach going forward, and that we should avoid losing games, so to prevent people from even starting that conversation.
John Clayton… loyal to the end
John Clayton is not worth listening. He is biased in his views
We are all biased in our views, one way or another. And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as we acknowledge it. The problem with John Clayton is that he is supposed to be a professional journalist &, instead, he has just become a parrot, repeating the same position over & over without any thought, consideration or justification for either his or anyone else’s point of view. Worse still, he is not even an interesting read/listen.
I wouldn’t say everyone is biased.
You can be balanced.
I don’t want to trade Wilson and have written in detail about what I would prefer to happen.
But it hasn’t stopped me writing about the other side of the story. A trade. What it would look like, the candidates, the options.
You can have an opinion and not allow that opinion to cloud your work.
Clayton is never balanced. In fact he is completely dismissive of anything other than his own take on the situation.
I know Rob likes him but……….Dave Wyman still defending Jamal Adams yesterday. Loyal to the end.
sometimes Jimmy G. looks like a very competent NFL quarterback….when he can make a quick read, get rid of the ball – he can look decisive and accurate. But then, he does Jimmy G. things, like throwing a pick in the end zone.
NFL quarterbacking is hard…
You just explained Kirk Cousins, too. Very good QB but has a history of stupidity attacks at crucial times, as well.
I’d argue Cousins is a top 3-5 NFL QB ***IF*** you could remove 1-2 plays from EVERY game every year. But that’s not reality and a reason he’s not a top 3-5 guy.
Cousins and Jimmy are terrible QBs when it comes to delivering, a huge step back from Wilson. I hope he stays but should he go, I’d much rather have a younger starter with a fresh mind, someone like Minshew, Kellen Mond or even Justin Fields.
Ian Book will start for the Saints on Monday. The most overlooked rookie QB of the 2021 class.
Ah, and over the season, Tua has silently brought the Fins back to playoff contention. Okay, those six adversaries he played combine for over 30 games under .500, but still.
Pete Carroll had a long-term vision when he took over this franchise.
Example 1:
Josh Wilson was a good CB. He wasn’t what Pete wanted starting at CB, but he was an awesome option at nickel.
Pete and John only cared about the future and traded Wilson to Baltimore for a 5th round pick because they had a long-term vision.
I hated that trade because if anyone ever watched the Chicago playoff game that next year, it was Wilson who may have picked that pass off (nickel CB) and we’d have won the playoff game (after Beast Mode Quake game). Who knows from there.
Pete Carroll has no long-term vision anymore.
Example 1: Opposite the Josh Wilson trade, Pete/John trade a 5th round pick for Gabe Jackson. They don’t care about picks anymore. They also pay Jackson over $22 million over 3 years, never mind he’s old and not as good anymore.
Example 2: Anyone remember when Julio Jones was available last off-season? The Titans ended up getting him for a future 2nd round pick. But the Seahawks wanted him, which means they obviously weren’t far behind the compensation the Titans eventually gave up.
How in the hell would a team so devoid of future picks “be in on” acquiring an old WR that cost too much? That’s Pete, these days. Before, he would have released TJ Who’s-your-mamma, which he did, but now days he tries to get those old washed up guys. Worse yet, he’d pay draft picks to get them whereas those days he’d cut TJ and incur only a salary cap penalty.
Example 3: This is the worst because it’s the Jamal Adams trade. Whoever favored this trade needs to be fired. Plain and simple. You can argue it’s the worst trade in Seahawks history and you might be right or wrong… but I’ve been a fan since ’83 and I guarantee it’s the WORST trade since I’ve loved this team. The sad thing is – is I love this team. Pete and John only care who they’re employed by. They can trade future 1st round picks, get fired, and not care… but I’m stuck caring about a franchise with NO 1st round picks because I’m loyal that way. And we’re pretty much stuck with a bum SS that can’t cover who’s basically STEALING money because Pete/John are stupid… my biggest problem is that I shouldn’t hate Jamal as bad as I do… it’s not his fault morons gave up too much for him.
I’ve been a fan since the first game in Sept. of ’76 vs. the St. Louis Cardinals. The only trade that is even close to as bad was the one that landed Tony Dorsett in Dallas when the Hawks had the #2 overall in the ’77 draft. The reason it isn’t to me is that TD had absolutely ZERO intentions of playing for a 2nd year Seattle team. He truly would’ve sat out or gone to Canada. Under that kind of pressure, they did about as well as could be expected.
The Adams trade to me is clearly the worst trade by a long way based on the exorbitant price paid, the almost complete lack of game changing impact he’s provided, the injury situation which is obviously becoming more of a factor and likely will short circuit is career seeing as his best position would be rush LB when he lives in a Safety’s body, the outrageous contract given to him because no deal was in place when the trade was consummated, his mid-60s PFF grade, the fact that we’ll likely lose Diggs because of his contract, and so on and so forth.
As for hating Adams the guy, you’re right BobbyK, it’s not his fault that the morons made the trade, but his demeanor on the field and obvious ego (best in the nation!) do nothing to endear himself to me, you and many other fans. By contrast, Sherm was just as cocky and abrasive but he backed it up with All-Pro level play and received no vitriol from Seattle fans as a result (though much from other teams’ fans which was actually really awesome)..
By the media abrogating their job, something resembling the status quo is increasingly becomes more likely.
I agree with much of what Rob, and even others, have said about what we should do… if we could do it.
The biggest issue I have is that this is all hedged on the assumption that Pete Carroll is spent and retires voluntarily. I really don’t think it is likely that he will be fired. Maybe, as some others have suggested, he won’t want to walk away on a low note.
If that is the case, I think a Russell Wilson trade is not a foregone conclusion. The Giants??? Really? I think Russell would have a come-to-Jesus moment about whether that organization is really committed to winning. The Saints? Sure, great fit. But they don’t have the draft capitol… or the $ capitol. Russell can try to play hard ball and force their hand… but he is a pragmatist and might increasingly see his lack of options. Can he really burn that important of a bridge without a reasonable path to alternative destination? A trade probably necessitates another contract. Will RW3 really want to forgo free agency for a trade to a pretender organization?
I am all for making drastic changes. They are warranted. The Carroll-led Seahawks have lost their way. But I cannot help shake the feeling that the certainty about upcoming changes is not-so-certain. It certainly doesn’t help that the media is afraid of asking hard or pressing questions. I can very easily see something like a Marvin Lewis situation unfolding. We are just slouching towards… nothing fundamental changing.
If Pete Carroll does walk away it might be nice to have a more well-rounded analysis of the various possible coaching hires. Wasn’t blog-favorite Joe Brady just fired? I am all for operation Pray 4 Sean Payton… but it does seem a bit of fantasy. Is it only top OCs that we would consider, or are they are college coachs? I guess… so many years ago, I knew the Mora Jr. was a hopeless sinking ship, but I had no way of imaging Carroll as a possible replacement. That was a divine move. Jim Harbaugh? (talk about a shock to the fan base!) I am dead serious that someone should persuade Peyton Manning to get into coaching… if you offered it to him, he’d have to consider it! Josh McDaniels? Doug Pederson? What different directions would a Bieniemy, Hackett, Daboll, or Carmichael hire entail? Who would RW3 want? Who would Schneider want? Would a defensive coordinator / coach even be considered?
I guess it is paralyzing to not have any agency… and just be hoping that Carroll voluntarily steps down.
I think a lot of people assume Carroll won’t be fired.
I wouldn’t be so sure.
We don’t know anything about this ownership. We shouldn’t assume anything.
Thank you for your articles Rob. As an avid Seahawks fan, I look forward to reading your thoughts and engaging in a succinct deliberation of what is really going on. There’s just not enough of that around these days.
My thoughts…
Although I think that Carroll and Schneider have done a great job with the Seahawks in the past, I just don’t see how either of them can stay on.
Carroll – defensive mind, and we don’t have a single viable CB. I get he wants to coach ’em up, but get someone that has some skills as well. Division first, we don’t match up well against Stafford or Murray. Jimmy G, well, we beat the Niners twice this year. Conference wise, Rodgers, Brady, and Prescott will burn this D for years.
He also addressed the RB spot in the first rebuild with multiple RB’s, and the job landed with Marshawn. He was the reason the Seahawks were a real force. Not that others didn’t join in, but you knew what you were getting if Marshawn played that day.
Schneider – He doesn’t get a free pass because Carroll had most of the say, otherwise he is just a guy who emails and faxes. Look at the list of guys in the league they whiffed on….
RB – Chubb, Taylor, Kamara, etc
DL – our DL is horrendous right now. You can’t trade for a Dunlap and then don’t get a guy coming up to replace him. He’s alright, he’s not the future.
They’ve done this at multiple positions, get a guy on the decline and hope the magic returns.
Jamaal Adams – Hey, I like the guy, but not at that cost. This has to be the dagger for Schneider.
Will we even be able to keep a guy like Diggs now that all the money is going to Adams.
This is the managements job, to understand the quality of the players that are there.
And I feel for Wilson, because I’d be leary with each and every acquisition they have made too.
Keep up the good work Rob!
I truly hope you get that 5 minutes with Mrs. Allen