Report: Richard Sherman turned down the Seahawks

The Seahawks had plenty of time — and money — to get a deal done with Richard Sherman.

According to Over the Cap, the Seahawks have $12.1m to spend. That’s the sixth most in the NFL.

They’re also dealing with a cornerback crisis and are facing a critical period in the season already. Their next two games are against the 49ers and Rams. Lose both and they’ll drop to 1-4 and virtually be out of the NFC West race.

Questions are starting to be asked about Pete Carroll. A significant section of fans, for the first time in the Carroll era, are wondering whether the end of an era is nigh.

Yet here they are. Sitting on their cap space, incapable of making the moves to improve their situation.

It’s perhaps a review of Seattle’s desperation. Only last week Carroll was asked on 710 ESPN whether they were talking to Sherman. Carroll said they weren’t. Now they’re seemingly trying to stop him joining Tampa Bay at the last minute.

It’s a horrible look.

Everyone could see they had a major, glaring problem at corner. If they’re willing to sign Sherman now, they should’ve been two weeks ago. They didn’t need to see Tre Flowers get carved up by Julio Jones first, or D.J. Reed by Adam Thielen.

It just feels complacent and neglectful. Then desperate.

And ultimately Sherman has picked a better offer. The Seahawks, even to a legendary player rooted in the region, are not as appealing as Tampa Bay.

Sherman has had his well publicised issues and teams having some trepidation over his ability to play to anything like his best is understandable. Yet the minute you pick up the phone and make the call, you’re admitting this isn’t as big a problem as some might think. You’re saying you’re willing to take a chance.

One of the big problems the Carroll era has faced in recent years is this repeated issue of having a glaring in-season need and then trying to cover things up with a band-aid.

In 2019 a last-gasp Jadeveon Clowney trade prevented the Seahawks starting the season with Barkevious Mingo, Cassius Marsh and Jacob Martin being ‘the pass rush’. A year ago they started the season with Benson Mayowa as their only barely competent defensive end and needed a Carlos Dunlap trade to salvage things.

This year it’s cornerback. Everyone — literally everyone — could see cornerback was a problem. You could see it in March and it was still there in September.

By trying for Sherman the Seahawks were hoping to once again find a band-aid. And they’ve failed. So what now?

The Buccs have found a possible solution for their corner crisis. The Panthers have just made a value trade for C.J. Henderson.

The Seahawks don’t appear to have an answer after the Sherman snub. So they sit there, with their $12.1m. And I have to say — I’m nervous about what they’re going to do.

Wasting more draft resources to paper over the cracks feels like a real possibility. Henderson has three more seasons of cheap value. His salary will never be higher than $3.4m for Carolina. He’s only 22 and a year removed from being the #9 overall pick.

Can’t you just see the Seahawks squandering more resource on an ageing stop-gap or rental?

Especially in light of reportedly losing out on Sherman?

Or are they just going to hope Sidney Jones is a solution — despite so far being so unconvinced that they’ve felt obliged to stick by Flowers?

It’s not been a good week for the Seahawks in this regard.

At the weekend John Schneider admitted they were planning to add Josh Gordon. It was announced on Monday he was joining the Chiefs instead.

Now, Sherman has seemingly said ‘thanks but no thanks’.

It all adds up to a franchise that continues to lose its way. Bad expensive trades, bad use of draft picks, constantly looking for band-aid solutions to fill holes, poor performances on the field, players calling out the scheme in interviews, a franchise quarterback who a few months ago flirted with a trade, no discernible identity.

They’re on the brink of implosion. The next two games are pivotal to avoid that.

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205 Comments

  1. cha

    “We’ll always have Paris.”

    • GoHawksDani

      Yeah, but Carroll is no Bogart. He’s more like Nero, watching Rome burn

  2. dream22

    But the ride home sucked

  3. cha

    The Sherman signing needs to be a topic brought up at today’s press conference.

    ‘You said you weren’t talking to him, and reports are you did. What changed? Why now? Why run to the airport with a bouquet of flowers and try to stop Sherman from getting on the plane to Tampa?’

    ‘What do you know now about your cornerback group that you didn’t know when you said you weren’t talking to Sherman?’

    ‘Have you had the ‘personal accountability meeting’ with the defense you said you were going to? How did it go? What can we expect to see on the field as a result of that meeting?’

    ‘When we asked about the corners’ performance against Minnesota, you repeatedly pivoted to the pass rush not doing their job. Can you fix this with better scheming? Or do you think you need to add to that group?’

    • Rob Staton

      “Do you regret not doing more at cornerback in the off-season?”

      • Big Mike

        ” How good is Bobby Wagner?”

        • Hawkdawg

          He’s good. But if I hear that question one more time from the dude who typically asks questions like that, I’m going to hurl. “Journalism” redefined.

          • Big Mike

            It was sarcasm based on the lack of journalism in the Seattle media.

    • GaiusMarius

      I prefer pinning them down even harder.

      “Could you please describe Tre Flowers’ performance this season using 3 adjectives?”

      • Noah

        Don’t know my adjectives, but does ‘really f*cking shit’ count?

      • Simon McInnes

        He tackles competently (not all adjectives, but what the hell)

      • Morgan

        “Gritty. Gritful. Grit…ish.”

        • L80

          “Will Uncle Louie make a single play this season”.

  4. Blitzy the Clown

    It just feels complacent and neglectful. Then desperate.

    To me it feels incompetent. But the kind of incompetence borne out of hubris.

    The Seahawks as an organization has become incompetent.

    But again, I’m ok with all these little losses (including actual game losses) because that’s the only way out of this situation. Nobody can make Pete Carroll leave. For all intents and purposes, he can’t be sacked. He can only quit. And in my opinion, based on 20 years of watching Pete Carroll coach football, he’ll quit when the winning stops and the questions start.

  5. Brandon37

    Maybe I’m drinking the soundwater but I am glad this happened when it did. If Sherman is the answer, I’d like to know the question. He’s old, washed up, and his size/speed isn’t going to age well. Both Sea & Tam got beat by a couple scores this week. It’s a topsy turvy year look at Kansas City. I have confidence in Pete/John brain trust to get this thing turned around. You have to remember you go to war with the gun you have, not the gun you want, and timing matters. PC/JS probably thought Jones would be back by now at CB. Go Hawks

    • Rob Staton

      No issue with not wanting Sherman

      Desperately turning to him at the last minute, having totally failed ton adequately address a glaring need isn’t acceptable

    • Blitzy the Clown

      I’m curious what you’ve seen in the last 4 or 5 seasons that give you confidence in the “Pete/John brain trust to get this thing turned around”?

    • cha

      You have to remember you go to war with the gun you have, not the gun you want, and timing matters.

      Have you fallen asleep for the last 3 years?

      This community has been consistently begging the Seahawks to acquire better artillery.

      • Scot04

        Yep; this offseason it was CB & Center. They went cheap on both and are paying for it. Still don’t understand moving Lewis to LG to accommodate Jackson. Thought that made 0 sense as well.

      • TJ

        They seem to think they can bring a bat to a gun fight and come away victorious. It stinks of hubris to me. That, or they are simply incompetent and truly don’t understand how weak the roster has become.

    • Chris

      I gotta say, I’m so done with PC/JS. Pete being a defensive genius/coaching guru, JS being a draft wunderkind. We all bought that in 2013, but looking back, I think we were sold a bill of goods.

      1. Is PC a defensive genius? It’s easy to look great when you have multiple young HoF players on your squad: Sherman, Chancellor, Thomas, Wagner. Supplemented by near-HoF players like Bennett, Avril, etc. The first four players probably get you 8 wins on their own. Since the talent is gone, the performance of the defensive has dropped. PC hasn’t shown any ability to coach up players, and hasn’t demonstrated any willingness to adjust schemes.

      2. Is PC a coaching guru? Again, I think not based on his mis-use of Graham, his inability to keep Harvin on the straight and narrow, his inability to either adapt his defense to Adams or to mold Adams into his defense. He’s also never really developed Wilson. Wilson today is largely the same player he was in 2013/2014, just with less speed and agility.

      3. Is PC a great recruiter? Based on how we continually lose out on acquiring free agents, the idea that playing in Seattle for PC is a draw is unfounded.

      4. Is JS a draft wunderkind? This is much harder to tell since separating his influence from PCs is tough. I think the jury is out on this, and we won’t know for decades until JS writes a tell all book (if he ever does). I think that Scot M was definitely more valuable in assembling the SB team than JS.

      My theory now is that when PC came to Seattle, he had great insight into the college pipeline of players from his time at USC. This gave him an edge that dissipated after four years. He had a huge edge with Scot M in player eval that also went away. Then luck played a role in terms of being able to pick up players for a bargain. Credit to both PC/JS for the Avril/Bennett deals and also stealing Lynch from Buffalo, but those type of things dried up pretty fast. Luck really played a role in being able to select RW since so many teams were scared of his height.

      Now we’re left with a coach who should have ‘hubris’ on his license plate. He is set in his ways, trying to win with a style that the league has adjusted to. The players are performing at a much lower level than HoF with the exception of Russ and BW, but both of those are slowly degrading over time.

      Winter is coming…

      • TomLPDX

        Really liked this post, Chris.

        Is it PC was a great recruiter or was it because of USC?
        I don’t think we’ll get a book out of JS, but I bet it would be a good read!
        I never thought PC was a great position coach, he hasn’t been one for a long, long time. And his team’s play on D is kind of showing us how great a D coach he is.

  6. Dave

    It’s depressing that we don’t even have the draft capital of an early 1st round pick to look forward to.

    • Scot04

      That’s not the depressing part. It’s what we gave it up for; and the other compensation that went with it.

    • TomLPDX

      Why though? There recent history says they would only squander it as well.

    • DAVID

      WHY CARE ABOUT THE 1ST ROUND PICK ANYWAYS? WE’LL JUST DRAFT ANOTHER LG COLLIER OR RASHAD PENNY ANYWAYS. NO NEED TO GET YOUR HOPES UP LOL

  7. Roy Batty

    I was asked by my brother in law if I wanted to go to a game with him. His buddy was injured and gave up his season tickets. I live in Spokane and he is in Seattle.

    I told him no.

    That’s how bad it has gotten for me after 3 decades of watching this team. I don’t watch it live on TV, preferring to watch the YouTube condensed recap.

    This sucks.

  8. GoHawks5151

    Horrible look. I wish they signed him earlier. That being said the tweet says he had a better offer. Within the past week he was talking money when he commented that his resume should speak to his pay. The Bucs are a better team and paid him more so is there really a question why he signed? Same thing with Gordon. Who doesn’t want to play with Patrick Mahomes in Andy Reid’s system right now? When it rains it pours I guess.

    To be honest I’m not sure the staff could handle the smoke Sherm would bring if the coverages are messed up as they say

    • Kendo

      I don’t think Pete would like that but maybe it’s needed to get that hunger/anger back with these guys.

  9. Mick

    Gordon and Sherman are both saying “I have better chances of winning elsewhere”. Just like Zeitler chose Ravens instead of his friend Russ.

    We might get a W with the 49ers with a lot of luck and a lot of Wilson – though Shell might be still out and then we’re in serious trouble. But if we want to get back to a serious season we need to beat the Rams and we have close to 0 chances on that one.

  10. dave

    I actually find it quite hilarious now how bad this front office has been, just total failure. these next 2 weeks will be the turning point of the season, and i feel many big decisions/ consequences will be determined from the outcomes of the next 2 games.

    we shall see…

  11. Sean Harker

    This front office has become a laughing stock. They have made mistake after mistake, repeatedly missed on talent evaluations and draft picks, traded draft capital for guys they have no idea how to utilize. The coaching staff has now become a good ole boys club that shows ability to make in game adjustments. Ken Norton is a joke, but Pete will not fire him.

    The 3 draft classes that put this team in back to back super bowls looks like a stroke of luck rather than a stroke of genius. Pete’s team building magic has gone away and this is what it looks like. A desperate 1-2 team w glaring weakness on the field, an incompetent front office and a coaching staff. Unfortunately sometimes it takes an awful season to spur change. We shall see.

  12. Paul Cook

    I wrote this in the other thread, not really thinking about or applying it to Sherman, but rather as a general matter…

    I know I’ve repeated myself about five times concerning this matter, but our schedule this year was much more problematic the first nine games than the last eight games. In other words, we could play ourselves out of a favorable playoff position quite early this year. This was the year we had to put our best foot forward early, shore up our roster as best we could as early as we could. That meant not quibbling about with FA’s, but being aggressive with the ones who might best help our cause.

  13. GoHawksDani

    This is good news! Imagine Sherm coming to SEA making the team somewhat decent, they get into the PO and win 1 or 2 game and everything would be the same. If they mess up majorly, missing the PO, maybe even have a losing record, it’ll finally blow up and we might be able to turn the page

    I just really hope they don’t throw a hail mary for the next with 2023 & 2024 R1 to some Adams-like CB

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Dani gets it. The only way out of this quagmire is through through the mud.

      And just to be clear, Carroll will leave only if and when he wants to. Nobody has the power to force him out. Not even Jodi Allen, who may have the power on paper, but not the power in practice.

  14. J.P.

    Sherman coming here would’ve been nice, I wanted it, but a part of me realizes, if he has other options, which he did, including the 49ers, he was probably not going to choose Seattle.

    Frankly, you’d have to pay him a bit of extra money to get him playing with Russell Wilson here. To me, it’s not even a secret, he flat out doesn’t respect Wilson on the field. When asked about Wilson’s game, he basically was saying Wilson needs a good run game and he can throw a bunch of picks at times. Then you go to when he has to play the Packers or Brady and it’s like, nothing but the utmost respect for their skill when asked about those guys.

  15. Hawkdawg

    I’m not sure it’s hubris, exactly. There hasn’t been a whole lot to be arrogant about for many years, given how the seasons have been ending at least.

    I think it is more a matter of being stubborn as to “how we do things,” combined with blowing sunshine up their own butts about both individual players and the team’s weaknesses as a whole.

    I suppose there may be some arrogance involved in all of that. But if so, it’s irrational at this point, which may become clear to even the most rah-rah in that organization in the coming weeks.

  16. cha

    Oh man

    Full breakdown:

    – Base salary: $1M ($1.2M prorated over 15 weeks)
    – $500,000 guaranteed
    – Per game bonuses: $350,000 ($25,000 per game for 14 games)
    – Play-time incentives:
    45% + playoffs = $300,000 or
    55% + playoffs = $600,000 or
    65 % + playoffs = $900,000
    Total: $2,250,000
    Doug Kyed
    @DougKyed
    Source: CB Richard Sherman signed a one-year contract with the #Buccaneers worth up to $2.25 million with $500k guaranteed.

    • Ashish

      Why to worry, Trey Flower had his best off season. Even hawks get high first pick, it will be for JETS. How bad you can screw up…

    • BobbyK

      Jody Allen’s Cincinnati Seahawks need to save that money.

  17. Jlemere

    Insert explosion from Iron Man GIF here.

  18. cha

    So, Pro Football Reference says Jordyn Brooks blitzed Kirk Cousins 5 times Sunday.

    Color me shocked.

    If a LB blitzes 5 times and doesn’t make a sound, did it really happen?

    • BobbyK

      Jordyn Brooks would have made a solid pick in the 3rd round. Not a great pick there, but a good one.

    • Fudwamper

      I thought I saw him good a couple of good pressures and one untouched run at the qb. I remember the untouched pass to Jefferson, I think, while watching the corner trail a few yards behind. It was a great read by cusins, a great throw, and a great call against the blitz. If only we had a strong safety filling that gap behind the blitz.

    • Mick

      I am kind of a fan of Jordyn so perhaps I shouldn’t defend him, but we are playing a lot of guys out of position and we send several players on a blitz at once with the hope that something sticks, so I would put a question mark on the 5 blitzes. PFF also says Brooks has 18 snaps at slot corner in these 3 games (???), and he is often covering for Adams. He looked good at the end of last year doing what a linebacker should do.

      But yes, from what I’ve seen this year getting Taylor in round 1 would have been better justified. I guess they counted with KJ leaving and didn’t want to risk losing a replacement for him – as the draft went, either Brooks or Patrick Queen would have been around for our second round pick, but you don’t know that in advance.

      • cha

        PFF also says Brooks has 18 snaps at slot corner in these 3 games (???), and he is often covering for Adams.

        The Seahawks probably have him in pass coverage on those snaps as a psuedo-SAM (like the TD to Conklin on Sunday).

        It looks confusing to list it that way but it’s not all that uncharacteristic.

        • Mick

          On the Julio Jones’ TD that was not given, Brooks was defending him and it was the kind of position where you’d expect Adams to be. But we have to try to get shining results for our expensive blitzer.

          • Big Mike

            And those “results” have been an utter failure so far.

    • Scot04

      Consensus said Patrick Queen over Brooks.
      I know it’s only year 2; but could easily be Penny vrs Chubb 2.0

      • Scot04

        Hope it’s just PCs defense and not the player.

      • Denver Hawker

        Way to early to compare the two, but Queen’s PFF grade so far in 2021 is 37 compared to Brooks at 49. Neither having a good year.

      • Blitzy the Clown

        I never saw consensus opinion that Queen > Brooks. If you have the time and inclination, could you cite some of that?

        And regardless of pre-draft consensus, the game tape so far from 1.25 seasons doesn’t back that up.

        I’m not a Brooks stan, but he’s not Penny in the least.

        • Rob Staton

          Is he definitely not Penny though?

          The guy is grading terribly as a starter and is being benched during games for Cody freakin Barton

          • Blitzy the Clown

            Fair points, but I’d counter by stating at least Brooks is healthy and available. That’s a major improvement over Penny right there.

            As for being benched during games, that supposedly was for a personal foul. I can’t say I agree with Carroll’s reasoning, but it’s not like he benched Brooks for poor play.

            And since I don’t really know enough about these two in-game benchings to say for sure, if it’s true that Carroll benched Brooks in-game because of poor play, it seems to me that Brooks is being asked to do things he’s never done before and is ill-suited to do as an athlete. So either way, to me it goes right back to Carroll as a coach and not Brooks as a player.

            Again, I’ll reiterate, I’m not a huge Brooks fan. I didn’t like the pick when it was made (mostly because the team had other more glaring needs and there other more highly rated prospects at those positions of need).

            • Rob Staton

              Brooks was benched against Minnesota too

              So he is being benched for other reasons than that one penalty vs Tennessee

      • J.P.

        I mean Brooks is not Chubb, but I’ll sure as shit take him over Queen at this point. Like I don’t know how good he really is right now because frankly guys on both sides of the ball seem lost and frustrated right now on this team.

        With the Ravens, they’re supposed to super well coached, right? What’s Queen’s excuse for looking absolutely horrid at times?

  19. Fudwamper

    I thought I saw him make a couple of good pressures and one untouched run at the qb. I remember the untouched pass to Jefferson, I think, while watching the corner trail a few yards behind. It was a great read by cusins, a great throw, and a great call against the blitz. If only we had a strong safety filling that gap behind the blitz.

  20. no frickin clue

    From now on, all Russell Wilson post-game press conferences will be accompanied in the Clue household by a shot glass and a bottle of Blanton’s bourbon. Each reference below used by Russ earns a shot and a fresh pour:

    Stay the Course
    Do a Lot of Great Things
    Guys Making Plays
    Not Gonna Score Every Single Time
    It’s a Journey
    Getting After It
    I Know Who I Am

    I’m afraid it won’t be too long until I’m out of Blanton’s. 🙁

    • cha

      Clue, I literally just bought a bottle of Blanton’s yesterday.

      Never tried it before. Excited to crack it open.

      I got the first stopper in the series.

      • no frickin clue

        Oh you’re in for a treat. So smooth.
        One stopper down, 7 to go!

        I’ve heard people swear that Pappy Van Winkle’s is better, but I’ve never actually seen a bottle of Pappy’s, so it’s a bit moot honestly.

        • Kendo

          You might be able to find some Pappy at Ballard Cut or Whiskey West. It’s great stuff.

        • cha

          PVW is a unicorn that I can’t get worked up about chasing. If I do nothing and it comes to me, fantastic. But that’s about all the concern I have over it.

          I would love to get my hands on a bottle of Eagle Rare 17yr though.

          • pdway

            found it in a bar once – and shelled out the money to try it. It was definitely very good, but not legendarily so. Excellent PR campaign that’s for sure. Never had that Eagle Rare….

            I’m almost solely a Rye guy these days though.

            • cha

              ER is In the same family as Blanton’s, Buffalo Trace and Pappy.

              The regular is about $35 and easily runs with bourbons twice the price. Great for sipping and in Old Fashioned’s or Manhattans.

              Used to be at every store but word is out and it can be hard to find.

      • SeattleLifer

        Blanton’s is really nice. I’ve heard it can have a pretty good variation from bottle to bottle but never disappoints. Wild Turkey as my go to and Blanton’s for good sipping time.

    • TomLPDX

      Ot you could just not bother watching them at all. I stopped watching RW press conferences a long time ago and have now stopped watching PC press conferences. I’ll probably stop watching Bobby’s too.

      • Big Mike

        I’d suggest watching the peacock’s/clapper’s pressers but didn’t he pass on doing it this past week? His Dior boa must not have been delivered on time.

        • TomLPDX

          Honestly Mike, I watched the coffee cup interview and decided right then and there that I have wasted enough time on watching any press conferences…from any of them, even Bobby! I remember thinking “What the hell is that shit!” I’m totally done with our peacock and pretty much done with Pete.

          Here’s a hint of where I’m at. I watched the Cowboys rip the Eagles and loved every second of it. Actually made it all the way through the game (even with the Manning boys being boys…love the double eagle from Eli! 🙂 )

  21. Simo

    Ouch, it stung to read this piece! But it couldn’t be more spot on, and accurately describes the sorry state of affairs the Hawks now find themselves in.

    Josh Gordon, a talented but risky addition chooses Chiefs over Hawks. Now, old friend Sherm, who’s gonna be a Hawks hall of famer chooses a better team.

    We have to ask, “what the hell are PC/JS doing?” Ken Norton is still the DC, no new helpful additions to the team. Oh, but hey, they did finally cut the third QB from the 53 man roster, FFS!!

    I think this is what a death spiral for an NFL franchise looks like, and this one has no end in sight because ownership is essentially non-existent. Nobody rightly believes ownership will step in and make tough decisions/changes do they? Unless Pete hangs up his Nike Monarchs on his own, the spiral will continue.

    I’ve been one to give PC/JS more than the benefit of the doubt, but every decision they make now just feels like a bad one!

  22. Denver Hawker

    I think we’ve covered the stratification of fandom in the past. I’m curious if this becomes a tipping point for the most ardent followers of “in PC/JS we trust”. This group is the last remaining defense of the Renton Empire.

    • Denver Hawker

      As I write this, a friends texts me the shirtless JS heavyweight belt pic with caption- “salary cap won’t go up next year, planning for rollover”.

  23. BobbyK

    If Sherman hits every incentive, he’ll make around $2.5 million. Seahawks are paying Flowers over $2 million just to be himself.

    If that’s not enough to make your head spin, the Josh Gordon comments the other day and calling Sherman last-minute are just embarrassing.

    It really makes you wonder about this organization.

    Another thing (from yesterday) that doesn’t make sense to me is how a defense can have Adams and Wagner. IMO, Bobby is best at a MLB. I wouldn’t pay an ILB huge money like that in a 3-4. But Bobby is a MLB so it’s all good.

    But Adams is clearly a 3-4 SS. He’s not a 4-3 SS as he’s clearly demonstrated. So the fact that these two guys are on the same defense makes no sense if you want to maximize the skills of both.

    There’s really just a lot of bad vibes from the Seahawks right now. To not even have a 1st round pick to look forward to is adding insult to injury.

    • cha

      If Sherman hits every incentive, he’ll make around $2.5 million. Seahawks are paying Flowers over $2 million just to be himself.

      They’re also paying Akhello Witherspoon $2.5m to play for Pittsburgh.

  24. Rob Staton

    https://twitter.com/nfl_dovkleiman/status/1443245339398520838?s=21

    Shambles

    • Rob Staton

      Sherman says after practise today that Seattle “strung him along”

      • Paul Cook

        It’s that quibbling thing of PC’s. But then he’ll turn around and do the JA’s trade. Very erratic. On the one hand they’ll throw nickels around like manhole covers, and on the other hand they’ll back up the Brink’s truck and whoppingly overpay. PC is erratic. It’s hard to trust someone with such a temperament.

      • Malc from PO

        Basket case team on and off the field. So disappointing.

  25. Rad_man

    This franchise is in deep shit.

    • Big Mike

      Yes it is but remember as Blitzy said, there has to be a bottoming out before Carroll will leave and change can occur.

  26. pdway

    this is all very annoying. we could use Sherman – not just ability – but some of the credibility he brings, been in lots of playoffs and SB’s, and has an attitude. Probably still close w Bobby. And it was peanuts to sign him.

    this feels very much like our management just flat out dropping the ball.

    Bad vibes lately.

  27. Martinb

    3 things I’ve been thinking about….

    1. Pete said in various interviews when he was first hired in Seattle that he would absolutely not ever be told how to build his roster or hire/fire assistant coaches ever again. A reference to his Jets and Patriots gigs. So his ridiculous stubbornness and myopic personnel decisions don’t surprise me.
    2. Am I just being naively hopeful that Chuck Arnold will somehow, some way, get involved as he watches this team edge closer to a full-on dumpster fire? Does he have the juice to make a decision between Wilson and Carroll if it comes to that head?
    3. Even if we bottom out the next 2 years, is that enough for Pete to step aside? This man is maniacally stubborn, beyond belief actually.

    • TomLPDX

      Arnold won’t make a decision until it impacts the bottom line. The franchise is still making money so no panic yet. If he is smart, he sees the unrest in the fanbase and will start paying more attention. But if you are looking for Arnold to be proactive…don’t.

      • Gaius Marius

        Right now, I agree. After the season is over? You can’t ignore Russell Wilson.

    • Gaius Marius

      If we miss the playoffs this year ownership will not have an option. If Carroll does not want to bow out I’m confident Wilson will put it out there as “him or me”. Ownership will then have to make the call.

      They shouldn’t need Wilson to do that by the way, not if the season disappoints. The actions (firing Carroll) should be obvious. Frankly, I do think that Carroll would retire (either his own choice or after ownership asked him to) if it comes to that.

      I do not see Wilson staying with the Seahawks if Carroll does for more seasons like this. Wilson can hear Father Time calling and do you think his estimation and regard for where the Seahawks is going is dramatically different than Gordon or Sherman? He hasn’t given up, no way, but I’m sure he has questions on if this will work.

      • TomLPDX

        I’m not convinced that Russ will do the “him or me” thing. As you said, father time is calling on RW and this team will need to rebuild itself regardless of Pete coming or going and Russ knows this (the clock is ticking). I basically see RW going to a contender (Indy is in desperate need of a QB as an example) after this year (or sooner if he can get traded before the deadline) and probably sees the Seahawks as a dead end for his personal wants and desires. I think we will see the end of RW in Seattle this year.

        • Big Mike

          Sadly, you might well be right Tom.

          • TomLPDX

            I hope not Mike. Unfortunately, on Rob’s blog we speak our truths. I don’t want to see it happen as much as none of us do…but it seems inevitable now.

        • Rad_man

          Yep. Russ not interested in a rebuild. But maybe enough pieces here to keep him around.

          Imagine…

          Russ in Denver or Indy.

          Pete retired.

          Chris Petersen new HC in Seattle.

        • Kendo

          Unfortunately I think you’re right. Why stick around on the same team with so many holes and little draft stock or salary cap to truly fix the issues? New Orleans looks like a great spot to wind up. Good all around team in need of a real QB.

          As much as I would hate to see Russ go I think he should. He’s given the organization plenty of opportunities to fix their sh!t but the team has steadily degraded over the years. If/when he leaves I’ll still root for him.

          • GoHawksDani

            I would love to see Russ in NOLA if he gets traded. When I wanna watch NFL for fun, I watch the Saints or KC. Saints is a really good team with ton of pieces already in place. But I just can’t stand Jameis…Hopefully they’ll find another QB soon

        • Rob Staton

          I still think Wilson will push like crazy for New Orleans

          And NYG will be attractive because it’s New York

          • TomLPDX

            Russ with Sean! Wow, wouldn’t that be something.

          • Big Mike

            I see NO too. It just makes so much sense. Have felt this way since this last offseason when the noise started. NY would have an outside chance but man that franchise is a total dumpster fire. I had always hoped he’d go to Vegas and we’d get Carr in return but not so sure Chucky will trade him now. Suppose it’ll depend on how thw rest of this year plays out but man he’s been nails so far in ’21.

        • J.P.

          Wilson has stated over and over he wants to basically be like Brady, probably like Lebron too. He plans on playing for at least another 10 seasons, 15 more he says. I’d hardly think that he believes that father time is calling like we do. Is he delusional? Maybe, but he seems pretty sure of himself in most cases, even if the results are less than ideal.

          • Rob Staton

            Regardless on how he sees his career length, he’ll still be extremely aware of father time.

            He turns 33 in November. He knows these are his peak years and he won’t get them back.

            One of the main reasons he spoke out this off-season is because it’s a long time since Seattle was a serious SB contender and he’d clearly started to wonder if this franchise was on the right track.

            I don’t blame him. I wonder what he thinks now…

            • J.P.

              His physical peak is already gone so he’s not talking about that. Father Time is not breathing down his neck if he think he’s playing for 10-15 years and that matters in that discussion.

              The whole discussion is based around the question if a post Pete Carroll rebuild is a deal-breaker and I’m saying it’s not when the guy plans on playing for an eternity like Brady anyways.

              His frustration seems like it has much more to do with his personal progress and team progress being limited under the current HC than “I’m too old.” We’re talking about a world where it’s a different HC, likely one of his choosing is installed.

              • Rob Staton

                Father Time definitely matters

                I think you’re trying too hard to wrangle his age out of it. He’s running out of time

                • J.P.

                  And it likely matters less to a man that has it firmly embedded in his head for some time now that he’s gonna basically play forever. 10-15 years is some guy’s entire careers.

                  The moment he wanted to go to the Bears was the moment it stopped becoming “he’s running out of time” and more about “he wants to stop wasting his time.”

                  The Bears are going nowhere in the playoffs. That O-Line went in with Peters and Ifedi at the Tackles. This wasn’t a move to “win now.” It was a move by him to win later down the road somwhere, but on his terms and not Pete Carroll’s.

                  Why do you think he didn’t think about going to the Patriot’s? They needed a QB at the time. Because that’s Bill’s team. Wilson could win many MVPs, he could have great defenses yearly, but he probably wants control which he will get none of with Bill. While Wilson has a desire to play for a long time like Brady, he’s not Brady where he’ll suck it up because he has other ideas about his future than just more rings.

                  If I recall, once I heard Wilson’s vision perhaps being compared to a Magic Johnson type. He wants to get his foot into that door of the FO, and be involved. He probably wants to be involved at the top, being involved in the team building process because he probably thinks he can be a player GM like Lebron.

                  • Rob Staton

                    And it likely matters less to a man that has it firmly embedded in his head for some time now that he’s gonna basically play forever. 10-15 years is some guy’s entire careers.

                    You keep mentioning this and overlooking the points being raised in counter.

                    It doesn’t matter whether he believes he can or will play for that long. His peak years are eroding. He knows that as well as anyone. And even the most upbeat person doesn’t assume they play well into their 40’s and ignore that things change quickly.

                    He’s nearly 33. One of the main reasons he did what he did this year is because he’s nearly 33 and he knows time is of the essence.

                    The moment he wanted to go to the Bears was the moment it stopped becoming “he’s running out of time” and more about “he wants to stop wasting his time.”

                    The Bears are going nowhere in the playoffs. That O-Line went in with Peters and Ifedi at the Tackles. This wasn’t a move to “win now.” It was a move by him to win later down the road somwhere, but on his terms and not Pete Carroll’s.

                    The reason he included the Bears is for the following reasons:

                    1. Big market

                    2. Not had a QB for decades, chance to make history

                    3. Offensive minded Head Coach

                    4. 12-4 record with TRUBISKY in 2018

                    They also have a strong defense and some pieces on offense.

                    Let’s not act like he asked to go to the Jets just because the O-line is struggling. I suspect had he gone to Chicago they would’ve done something about that. Wilson is more of a selling point than ‘come protect Dalton’.

                    Why do you think he didn’t think about going to the Patriot’s?

                    Because there’s no glory to be had in following Brady and playing for Belichick who is a well known pain in the arse. Plus, he’s not an offensive minded Head Coach. All four teams Wilson listed had offensive minded Head Coaches.

                  • J.P.

                    No, I just don’t assume Wilson is a particularly cynical man and after listening to him over the years, I fully buy that he is seriously planning to play into his 40s. Whether he will, that’s not the point here, he believes it.

                    I would argue his actions this off-season were not coincidental after what happened in 2020. Had much more to do with his frustrations over that season. In other words, it’s not that he suddenly realize he’s “running out of time,” more so that he realized he’s at his breaking point with Pete Carroll’s Seahawks.

                    And the 2018 Bears were akin to the like the 2015 Broncos that carried Manning hard. #1 per DVOA and they also had a decent O-Line. The current defense is on the verge of slipping from the top 10 while sporting a pretty brutal O-Line and few offensive weapons. This is not a place you turn to because you are “running out of time.” It’s a place you go to slowly plan out the future. They drafted their QB of the future and they got Peters and Ifedi on the edges to protect him. Nothing tells me that a good O-Line would’ve magically appeared if Wilson was traded there for a king’s ransom.

                    And ultimately if you want glory, then you become a winner. There’s plenty of glory to be had in NE, probably much more so than with a guy like Matt Nagy who is on the hot seat. I see no better place to do that in NE. Bill’s offenses are top shelf, he’s not like the other defensive minded head coaches. His offense with Brady were probably even better than most of these offensive minded coaches.

                    The biggest reason you don’t go there because you don’t want to fall in line with the rest of the troops like Brady was willing to in order to win.

                    • Rob Staton

                      No, I just don’t assume Wilson is a particularly cynical man and after listening to him over the years, I fully buy that he is seriously planning to play into his 40s. Whether he will, that’s not the point here, he believes it.

                      I don’t know why you’re finding this so hard.

                      Even if he believes all of that, anyone/everyone understands when the first half of their career is gone. That is where Wilson is at now. He’s not thinking, ‘it’s all fine, I have ages to go’. He is thinking, ‘I am half way through my career, I’m 33 this year, and I’ve not achieved anywhere close to what I want to achieve’. He is feeling some internal pressure within himself because the clock is ticking.

                      By all means keep arguing against that but you’ll be wrong.

                      I would argue his actions this off-season were not coincidental after what happened in 2020. Had much more to do with his frustrations over that season. In other words, it’s not that he suddenly realize he’s “running out of time,” more so that he realized he’s at his breaking point with Pete Carroll’s Seahawks.

                      Nope, this has been brewing for some time. As we’ve documented on the blog, long before it came to the fore in the off-season.

                      And the 2018 Bears were akin to the like the 2015 Broncos that carried Manning hard. #1 per DVOA and they also had a decent O-Line. The current defense is on the verge of slipping from the top 10 while sporting a pretty brutal O-Line and few offensive weapons.

                      Doesn’t matter.

                      They won 12 games with a useless QB. Wilson will believe he can easily repeat that success.

                      This is not a place you turn to because you are “running out of time.”

                      I listed the reasons why he would turn to Chicago.

                      Nothing tells me that a good O-Line would’ve magically appeared if Wilson was traded there for a king’s ransom.

                      Didn’t say it would. I said had they pulled off the Wilson trade it would’ve been a more attractive destination for available players and they might’ve been obliged to rectify it with urgency in a way they haven’t felt on a more long term plan that they’re currently on.

                      And ultimately if you want glory, then you become a winner. There’s plenty of glory to be had in NE, probably much more so than with a guy like Matt Nagy who is on the hot seat. I see no better place to do that in NE. Bill’s offenses are top shelf, he’s not like the other defensive minded head coaches. His offense with Brady were probably even better than most of these offensive minded coaches.

                      The reasons I gave for him not wanting to go to New England are inarguable.

                      I’m not just going to repeat them.

                      The biggest reason you don’t go there because you don’t want to fall in line with the rest of the troops like Brady was willing to in order to win.

                      That’s no where near the biggest reason for not going there.

                      Wilson was never, ever, ever going to New England and Belichick.

                      He spent an entire off-season pining for the control Brady had.

                      So he goes to the team Brady escaped from in order to get the control?

                      Come on.

          • TomLPDX

            Do you believe that he can do it with Seattle? Does he believe that?

            • J.P.

              Would he, with a head coach that he probably will help choose if Carroll steps down? Perhaps.

              • TomLPDX

                Maybe, if given the opportunity to actually chose who the next coach would be. But will he be given that chance? I seriously doubt it…but just my opinion.

                • J.P.

                  I think under the assumption that he’s here and PC retires, there’s no way around it, just like with the OC, he was involved, just like how they’ve tried to open up the offense because he wants it. They’re ultimately gonna have to stroke his ego and whatnot, assuming they keep him, in order to keep him satisfied.

                  Ultimately it’s a QB league, if a top 5 QB is demanding stuff, you probably have to give ground unless you have his replacement sitting around that you’re sure about and we don’t have a better plan.

            • olyhawksfan

              I believe there’s hope that he stays. As Rob has pointed out, Russ lives for his legacy. If he could write his story, maybe it reads “rock bottom in Seattle but stays for entire career, helps rebuild and return to SB. Get Rings.” People like redemption stories. They sound better than “he went to a great team and won.”

              IDK…just trying to but myself in his brain.

              • Rad_man

                No way Russ can be a good QB that long. He’s not a cerebral player like Brady. And that’s part of the problem the Seahawks face. Russ just is not the kind of player he thinks he is or wants to be. This is almost as foundational to the Seahawks issues as the issues around Pete Carroll, in my opinion. he has never been and will never be a sit in the pocket and pick you apart kind of QB. And that’s fine, Russ is great as is, but I don’t see his style of play going into 40.

  28. Matt

    Pete and John are sounding more and more like the smart kid who procrastinated and BSd his way through HS and college and are shocked to find out that there are other people just as smart – just perhaps harder working with more humility.

    • Matt

      They aren’t dumb people. They just overestimate their intelligence and ability to “control” all outcomes. It’s like watching a once great company not evolve with the times. “By God, people will once again buy a pet rock.”

      Market: “we don’t want another pet rock nor anything resembling a pet rock.”

      • pdway

        I just cant help but feeling like we are a step slow on everything right now…. from keeping up w the offensive and defense systems of 2021; to too often being a day late and a dollar short on pick-ups.

        I don’t know, I’m starting to get a little too bummed out about all things Seahawk, you get a lot of perspective from the articles and commenters on this site, but if I may quote David St. Hubbins, it may be ”too much f-ing perspective”…

  29. Robert Las Vegas

    Richard knows that the Seahawks are a mess.tampa might be able to reach the super bowl one year contract.why not. By the way anybody seen Kansas City play this year.they miss Frank Clark don’t they.sign Josh Gordon let’s just try and out score their opponents.

  30. DriveByPoster

    tbh, I am not unhappy that Sherman went elsewhere. Recent history suggests that, emotionally, he is not in a good place right now. So coming to a shit-show like the ‘hawks at the moment would be unlikely to end well. Both sides probably dodged a bullet on this one.

    It doesn’t speak well for the Seahawks organisation that they are trying to hijack deals like this. It feels like panic mode.

  31. cha

    Pete just said in regard to the second half woes:

    “I’m not concerned about it in any regard. We just gotta get back out and get the job done.”

    Mirrors to the WFT post-game press conf…..

    Next question: “Did you offer LeBron James a contract?”
    “What do you look at when trying to convert a basketball player to football?”

    • cha

      Pete: “I didn’t see an unusual problems in regards to communication” between the DBs.

      • Teethgrinder

        Pete, just stop with the bs, we don’t believe you

    • TomLPDX

      I’m so glad I don’t watch these press conferences anymore!

    • Pran

      Players looking for excuses, Coaches trying to cover up… nothing to see here…onwards to SB!

  32. Dan Riggs

    According to Sherman in his podcast, there was “early interest” from the Seahawks so the report that Seattle made a last ditch effort to stop him from signing with Tampa appears to be inaccurate. This lines up with what other beat reporters are saying as well.

    The front office still sucks, of course.

    • Rob Staton

      Well I’m pretty sure the reporter, who is somewhat established, didn’t make it up

      • Dan Riggs

        Well, again, Richard Sherman himself characterized it as “early interest” which lines up with reporting from other local reporters. We all know he would have said otherwise if the hawks tired to pursue him at the last minute.

        • Rob Staton

          He also said they strung him along.

          And I’ll repeat, nobody has disputed the report which was from a reliable source. He didn’t just make it up.

  33. Rob Staton

    https://twitter.com/seahawksPR/status/1443312104786718720

    Gerald Everett out for Sunday then

    • cha

      Colby time

      • TomLPDX

        Don’t forget we just signed Jace Sternberger to the PS!

    • Big Mike

      When you rarely throw to the TE………….well I have been impressed with Everett’s after catch desire to gain more tough yards.
      Is Colby ready cha?

      • cha

        Gregg Bell
        @gbellseattle
        ·
        59m
        TE Colby Parkinson coming back this week off IR, Pete Carroll says.

        • Big Mike

          Thanks cha

      • Ashish

        When you rarely throw to the TE….. well Everett was able to catch COVID 😀

        • TomLPDX

          HaHaHa, great comeback Ashish!

        • Big Mike

          I literally LOL’s Ashish. Fantastic

      • GerryG

        Seattle TEs quarantine on the field every Sunday, he should be well-suited for this.

    • Brik

      I thought Seahawks were 100% vaccinated… someone must be lying

      • Rob Staton

        You can still catch Covid once vaccinated. And it might be a false positive anyway

        • Bmseattle

          Correct.
          You can still transmit covid if vaccinated, as well.

  34. Teethgrinder

    Six division loses coming up, this is going to be an absolute shambles.

    9ers will run all over us, Rams will score a hatful while Donald spends the game sacking Russ. 1-4 with a bottom 5 defense and it’ll really hit the fan. As long as Kyler stays healthy I can’t see us beating the Cards.

    This could get real ugly real fast

    • Martinb

      When players start questioning their coaches and schemes after the 3rd game? Not exactly a confidence builder. Shambles is pretty accurate. Sheesh…..how’d we get here so fast?

      • TomLPDX

        By trying to figure out how to incorporate Adams into our defense scheme. Doesn’t seem to be working very well so far. I understand the frustration from the rest of the D players.

        • Martinb

          Agree completely. The “weapon” isn’t fitting this scheme. Whatever that scheme is. Is Adams that average of a player or is it simply a horrible scheme fit for him? I would have NEVER given up the capital for him, but wondering if an innovative DC could get a lot more out of him. Horrible trade regardless.

      • mantis

        this hasn’t been fast, it’s been happening slowly for a long 5 years

  35. Sea Mode

    The usual, “we’re in on every deal”… blah blah blah

    Bob Condotta
    @bcondotta
    ·3h

    Richard Sherman in press conference after Tampa Bay practice today characterized Seattle’s interest this way: “Seattle’s kind of you stringing you along, hasn’t offered you anything.”

    Bob Condotta
    @bcondotta
    ·1h

    Wagner says he thinks Richard Sherman was on his way to becoming a Seahawk before his July legal issues.

    Don’t care about Sherm specifically, but about their lack of action.

    • Submanjoe

      It’s like PCJS think these players will do anything to join the Seahawks. They’ll be sitting on the edge of their seat waiting for the chance to sign in Seattle. Those days are over.

    • GoHawks5151

      Contradictory quotes?

    • AlaskaHawk

      What player would choose Seahawks over the World Conquering Bucs? Come on. You got to pay a lot more to get someone here.

    • BobbyK

      Pete and John sign anyone with character risks. You can’t tell me they’d have signed Sherman except for the legal woes. They give anyone a chance. Aldon Smith, Josh Gordon, they’ll draft a Frank Clark with their first pick when that was controversial, etc. They don’t care.

  36. Submanjoe

    I hear USC needs a coach… hint hint Pete

  37. cha

    Dov Kleiman
    @NFL_DovKleiman
    ·
    28m
    #Seahawks signed WR Phillip Dorsett to the practice squad.

    Also signed former #Patriots TE Ryan Izzo and QB Jake Luton.

    • TomLPDX

      Luton I get. But Dorsett and Izzo? Really?

      • cha

        Collecting Tight Ends. That’s either 6 or 7 of them now.

        • Big Mike

          Well duh, they’re a very important and very often used part of the Seahawks’ offense.

  38. bmseattle

    From the article…

    “Can’t you just see the Seahawks squandering more resource on an ageing stop-gap or rental?”

    THIS, is my biggest fear, at this point.
    I’m so worried they will trade their 2nd rounder next year for Gilmore or someone similar.

    The last thing I want is Pete feeling desperate and telling John to get a CB at whatever cost.

  39. AlaskaHawk

    It’s funny that a year ago, after the demoralizing Clowney incident and before the Adams trade, I was actually hoping they would sit tight and save their money. Just give the team a year to reset and start building again. They could have gone into last draft and this year with a full amount of draft picks and some dollars in the war chest.

    Instead they traded for Adams and we are grabbing at life lines again.

  40. Robert Las Vegas

    I really think that Ken Norton Jr has to go we need fresh eyes and new ideas. more than likely won’t happen but it should . I keep thinking if the Seahawks finish in last place and more finger pointing. .more diserary .Pete has said that he isn’t interested in USC job will he reconsider late December. Hmm just a thought

  41. KD

    Carroll and co. have turned into apparatchiks. Permanent and unaccountable bureaucrats.

  42. Forrest

    You are absolutely right! Great writeup.

    Why did they cut Josh Gordon in the first place? Why can’t they sign him off of the Chiefs’ practice squad?

    Why does Sherman need a week of practice to be ready to play. Hard pass – glad we missed that one!

    The next thing they’ll do is trade another ransom for Stephon Gilmore. But wait any longer and they’ll miss that one too.

    • BobbyK

      They need to miss out on Gilmore. They need draft picks. All of the ones they have left. And more.

      However, I can see them thinking: “Gee, we don’t have our first round pick and if we end up in the top 10 picks, that would look pretty bad. Hey, let’s buy a band-aid and trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick to make it happen for some guy who can help us now… F-the future! Again.

      I.E. “Let’s continue to screw over future drafts for mediocrity now… but at least we’re “competing” NOW!

    • mac

      Josh Gordon, like many other players, may think its best to not sign with the Seahawks. If you’re a player on an elite team in even a backup practice squad role, you have a chance for a ring. I do think they’ll try to get Josh going to help out Hill.

  43. Aaron

    In other news, the Seattle Mariners of all franchises are giving fans reason to hope in the final week of the season. It’s been a delight to see this ragtag group of young guys and some vets claw their way to where they are now. The Seahawks better look around and realize they aren’t the only show in town anymore. Sounders are consistently good, Mariners actually good for once, Kracken just starting, and Storm are really good just to name a few teams.

  44. UkAlex6674

    OK that is as much as I can reasonably defend. I always try to look at the bad aspects of the Hawks FO and try to counter with positives or see a way out of the situation they have got into. I am a solicitor it’s my job to second guess and look at things from different angles. So I try to apply the same rationale and thought process here. But this, the Sherman story, is the final peice if shit in the big pile of shit the FO have dumped the last few years. And that ain’t a legal term folks!

  45. Martin

    It’s hard for us as Seahawks fans and it’s a poor outcome for the team if we are not a destination of choice. With our emotional involvement we want players to think the Seahawks are the best place to play – especially if they are players we covet or that the franchise has a history with. Then I think of people in other jobs…especially if our jobs were ones that one lasted a few years. Would we have that sense of loyalty? Who knows, but I imagine it might be the lure of a Superbowl rather than a distaste for the Seahawks with guys like Gordon and Sherman. Fans of all teams (maybe not Tampa Bay!) might feel their team misses out too often but there are 32 teams. Then again there does seem to be a pattern with us and high profile free agents who it seemed we should be able to sign or hold onto recently, Clowney, Sherman, Gordon, Everson Griffen, Jarran Read, K.J Wright, Justin Coleman, Sheldon Richardson etc (all for different reasons perhaps though).

    • Rob Staton

      I think for me it’s the rank inconsistency of their approach.

      They seem to offer deals to players that are below what they expect or simply ‘stay in contact’ in the hope those players will think this is the best place to play and want to stick around. And increasingly more and more players think otherwise. It’s hubris. And often it leads to panic moves or going into a season with glaring weaknesses.

      I don’t have a problem with seeking value in that way, provided you then don’t spaff away cap space on players like BJ Finney a year ago or an ageing Bruce Irvin, offering them way too much. Then desperately go and blow picks and salary on a safety you have no idea how to utilise.

  46. Denver Hawker

    I’m still flabbergasted by this:

    The Hawks are still trying to figure out how to best utilize Jamal Adams.

    Like a guy buying a Lambo, but doesn’t know how to drive a stick shift. What other top front offices do this?

    • Mick

      Trouble is they paid for a Lambo but got a second-hand Fiat Panda from 1995.

      • Denver Hawker

        Ha! My neighbor growing up had one of those. Kept saying it’d be a classic someday.

        I still think Adams has perennial pro-bowl potential..in the right system. They don’t know how to drive the Lambo AND don’t even have a garage for it.

    • Martinb

      Therein lies the problem— this is NOT a top front office anymore. Not even close. This team, on and off the field, used to be a model franchise under PC/JS. Seems like eons ago now.

  47. cha

    Not sure if everyone saw this..

    Corbin K. Smith
    @CorbinSmithNFL
    ·
    17h
    Ken Norton Jr. confirms Robert Nkemdiche has leapfrogged L.J. Collier at this time playing same position. But he preaches every week is about competition.

    Corbin K. Smith
    @CorbinSmithNFL
    ·
    17h
    “It came down to competition, came down to being able to play and being able to make quick decisions. Right now, we decided Nkemdiche was a little ahead of him [Collier].”

    • Big Mike

      I don’t have the list of 1st round draft choices over the history of the Seattle Seahawks but this guy has to be in the top 3 worst ever.

      • Paul Cook

        For gap between where a player was drafted/expected performance, and real result, off the top of my head I’d have to say Rick Mirer and Aaron Curry have to be in the top three. Did fans and team really think Collier was going to be a real good player? He might be more in the Lamar King range in that way.

        • Big Mike

          Yeah I thought of Curry and he was worse based on draft position. Mirer I’m gonna say ‘no’ because he had a couple of decent years before it seemed to fall apart.

          Like your King and Collier comp.

          • Paul Cook

            I meant this to be be here…

            Did Mirer ever really have a promising year? I put him on my short list because he was our highest draft pick ever, #2 overall, and was picked with the thought of him being our franchise QB for many years to come. We’ve never drafted a QB so high with that intention. I thought of Brian Bosworth because of that harder-they-come reason, and that he was in fact projected to be a game wrecker. He flamed out due to shoulder injury and never had the impact for the team given the hype and pedigree that came with him.

            • TJ

              He had a good rookie year. Looked like he might become a good QB At least with Mirer, they were able to turn him into multiple picks (I don’t remember for sure, but I think they got two 1s for him from Chicago)

      • Ashish

        Not sure what’s taking so long to understand how to pick their first rounder? You can get screwed once when you pick McDowell who has upside but comes with risk reason he was available. Okay I get it you see upside and risk it.

        But there is no excuse to miss pretty much every year. Can’t you change the process to see more of safe bet, proven track record over the time vs senior ball performer.

    • Denver Hawker

      One of the Denver radio guys had this to say about players:

      There are 3 attributes a player must have to be a pro-bowler, and everyone else needs at least 2 to make it in this league:
      1) Special physical traits
      2) Not prone to injury- simply being available
      3) Be a student of the game, and don’t be a dumbass- have some smarts and common sense

      Collier might only check the 2nd box at this point unfortunately.

      • Shane

        I am pretty sure Collier was out most of his Rookie year so I am looking at a big goose egg on any of the three.

    • Rob Staton

      Collier being beaten out by a guy who was sat on his couch last season

      • BobbyK

        He got beat out by a guy that sucks. Unbelievable.

  48. cha

    Depression Thursday

    Matt Stafford has torn the league apart so far in 3 games for the Rams. How?

    His protection.

    In three games the Rams have allowed Stafford to be pressured 13 times.

    Thirteen times. In three games.

    What’s that number again? Thirteen times.

    Okay sure they’re playing well. But are they playing against weak competition? You have to look at both sides of the equation you know.

    Let’s do that.

    Week 1: Chicago – Khalil Mack and Akheim Hicks
    Week 2: Indy – Grover Stewart and DeForest Buckner
    Week 3: Tampa – Ndamokung Suh, Vita Vea and Shaq Barrett (no JPP that game)

    OL PFF ranked so far this year

    LT Whitworth 72
    G Edwards 72.7
    C B Allen 77.7
    G Corbett 72.3
    RT Havenstein 74.5

    • Paul Cook

      I know I’m repeating myself here, but considering how important our offense was going to be as to our success in recent years, and considering the number of potential quality OLmen we could have drafted or potentially signed as FA’s, I think we didn’t put enough attention there these past 2-3 off seasons. It was a mistake, IMO.

    • BobbyK

      Where are our guys ranked? I can only see Brown being really good so far. Fuller must be a joke.

      • cha

        Brown 73.6
        Lewis 53.5
        Fuller 46.8
        Jackson 57.6
        Shell 68.1

        • Mick

          I wonder if we shouldn’t try to move Lewis back to RG and Jackson to LG. But I wouldn’t do it in the next 2 games.

          My money is on Duane Brown leaving us next summer, we had a chance and blew it this offseason.

        • GerryG

          Guard play has been disapointing, C we knew was going to be a weakness. Wonder how much of weak Guard play is connected to the C dumpster fire.

          • Rob Staton

            And it still irks me that they moved a quality young RG, who excelled at RG at LSU and as a rookie in Seattle, to LG to accommodate a short term addition.

            • Big Mike

              Aw crap, you beat me to that post. ou type faster no doubt. 😀

            • Matt

              It’s just 4D chess, Rob. How dare you question the brilliance of PC/JS.

            • BobbyK

              Crap like that totally irks me too. Just total BS and incompetence by Carroll and Co. Again.

            • cha

              Agree but at least Lewis is still doing the same essential functions, just from an unfamiliar angle.

              Not like when Carlos Dunlap or Alton Robinson drop into coverage.

              What’s next? Bryan Mone covering Deebo Samuel?

              • Rob Staton

                What’s next? Bryan Mone covering Deebo Samuel?

                There would be some comedy value in that

                I like a good laugh

            • GerryG

              +5

    • Big Mike

      Hey I know, let’s draft a guy that played strictly at RG in college and then play him at C for a game in his rookie year and then move him to LG despite him playing pretty well as a rook. Brilliant!

      How good is the Saints’ o-line? I ask because I wonder if Russ will have better protection when he goes there next year.

    • Chris

      And what was Wilson’s number one complaint? OL protection and the number of hits he took. So what did the Seahawks do? Move their promising RG to the left side (so he has to learn his footwork all over), sign a washed up RG to replace Lewis, keep replacement level centers and right tackles. Not a lot of improvement in my eyes…

  49. GerryG

    Public Service Announcement!

    The new Cigar Thoughts pod debuted and is FANTASTIC! Week 1 guest is Danny Kelly.

    • Bigsteviej

      If you want to listen to DK just go to The Ringer’s NFL podcasts.

  50. Matt

    It seems the Seahawks Twitter Brain Trust is currently making the argument that Jamal Adams is indeed great and that we are just too stupid to notice it.

    Of course…what they are really arguing is that his position is of minimal importance to the overall defense, if he has indeed been great. I wish some of these guys would take a second to take the next step in their brilliant analysis.

  51. Paul Cook

    Did Mirer ever really have a promising year? I put him on my short list because he was our highest draft pick ever, #2 overall, and was picked with the thought of him being our franchise QB for many years to come. We’ve never drafted a QB so high with that intention.

    I thought of Brian Bosworth because of that harder-they-come reason, and that he was in fact projected to be a game wrecker. He flamed out due to shoulder injury and never had the impact for the team given the hype and pedigree that came with him.

  52. Paul Cook

    Boy, our defense looked so bad the last three plus halves that it’s getting hard to imagine them even becoming a middle-of-the-pack unit fast enough to keep us from falling over the precipice. We clearly need to get more push out of our front four, tighter coverage underneath, and, dare I say it, some turnovers.

    I had us losing one of the two games to either Minnesota or San Fran before the season started. With the loss to the Titans, we’re in danger of falling well behind my pre-season chalk.

    • Rob Staton

      Just because I talk a lot about the media at times

    • Denver Hawker

      What will it take to get you one day in the Seahawks press room?

      • Rob Staton

        A minor miracle

    • cha

      Great stuff Rob.

      I appreciate the fact that you, as a professional, express your concerns about the Seattle media.

      It lends credence to what all of us out here that are not in that field are frustrated about.

      What’s sad is there are so, so many topics that could and should be explored. We joke about ‘how great is Bobby Wagner’ questions, but if you’re going to be a surface-level reporter like that, at least shake it up. Why not ask ‘Can you give me an example of how Bobby Wagner specifically suggested a scheme change or made an in game adjustment that proved beneficial?’ or ‘When questioned about a poor defensive game Sunday, Bobby Wagner says it’s on the players to improve. Do you agree with that?’

      I’m a complete scrub and I can think of 10 questions every week I’d like answered that the locals can’t even scratch the surface on.

      ‘You said you’re seeing everything you need to see in practice but the defensive backs aren’t showing that on Sunday. Why do you think that is?’
      ‘You said that exact same thing last year about your defensive backs. Is a pattern developing?’
      ‘Do you need to re-evaluate how you practice?’
      ‘Do you think the coaches are not getting the message across?’
      ‘Have the new NFL restrictions on practice time and with less live hitting had an impact in this area?’

      ‘The team preached tempo all offseason for the new offensive scheme. But in game situations where the team isn’t down on the scoreboard, you are in the middle of pack in regards to time before snap, and rarely use no huddle. Is that what you had in mind when you said more tempo?’
      ‘Has the defense’s inability to consistently make stops had any effect on the decisions you make on offense, and the tempo you play with?’

      • Rob Staton

        How about this…

        ‘Last week you said the bench is an ally. Why hasn’t that applied to anyone other than Jordyn Brooks, given the defensive performance in the last two weeks?’

  53. McZ

    If the season goes as it went, they will certainly make a bandaid trade.

    Spotting out the most overrated veteran CB in the game, spending some high picks on him. Then try to get the last ounce of football out of him.

    By now, we are a career cemetery. And I seriously fear, this HC and FO will run this franchise down to nowhere.

    • Rob Staton

      I so hope that bandaid trade doesn’t happen

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