Louisiana Tech DT Vernon Butler could go in the first round
Before we get into the Senior Bowl highlights from yesterday, here are some observations I made watching games yesterday:
— Vernon Butler (DT, Louisiana Tech) is the most intriguing interior defensive linemen in the class. I watched him against Rice and Kansas State and you could see him playing for the Seahawks. His gap discipline is excellent and that’s a big deal for Seattle. They preach doing your job up front and it helps them dominate vs the run. There aren’t many DT’s with length (34 inch arms), size (325lbs) and this type of mobility/athleticism. They like unique players — Butler has a rare physical combination. He carries the size well with a nice blend of lower/upper body power. He’ll soak up a double team on one play allowing the linebacker to break through on a blitz. On the next down he’ll stretch out a run play and work to the sideline. Here’s the thing though — he isn’t a great pass rusher. He just isn’t. And that’s underlined by a poor stat-sheet against some below-par opponents in 2015 (three sacks). So while he has the potential to become a very impressive, solid pro-DT at the next level — is he likely to improve upon what the Seahawks already have? That said, I’m not sure there’s a DT I’d want to take earlier than Butler in the entire class.
— When I do my next mock draft, Kyler Fackrell (DE/OLB, Utah State) will be in the top-25. I can see why PFF graded him as one of the most underrated pass rushers in college football in 2015. Unlike Vernon Butler, his middling statistics (four sacks) don’t do him justice. He’s a splash play artist — constantly impacting snaps and forcing mistakes. He’s a relentless rusher responsible for so many bad throws, picks and poor decisions. Whether you want to use him in the 3-4 at linebacker, off the edge in a 4-3 or in a Jamie Collins type role — he’ll be able to make plays. He’s one of the most fun players you’ll see in this class — with the attitude, intensity and football character that will make him incredibly attractive to teams. If the Dallas Cowboys wanted to draw a line under the ugly Greg Hardy episode, Fackrell would be an ideal replacement. They won’t take him with the #4 pick — but if they trade down with a club looking to draft one of the top QB’s, it could be possible.
— Sheldon Rankins (DT, Louisville) is getting a lot of attention after what appears to be a terrific first day of practise at the Senior Bowl. I saw one clip where he embarrassed Graham Glasgow with a fantastic spin move. It was quick-twitch, fluid technique at its best. He apparently had a similar move against Evan Boehm. I recall not being overly impressed with his tape — so I went back yesterday to review that initial take. And I came away unimpressed again. Perhaps the nature of the drills and the 1v1 nature of the plays suit Rankins? There’s no denying he has an attractive combination of quick feet and compact size (6-2, around 300lbs) that you want to see in an orthodox 4-3 three technique (not that the Seahawks feature that type of player). Yet on tape he doesn’t beat anyone with the spin move, he doesn’t shoot gaps and penetrate. He hasn’t got that first step quickness to work into the backfield. He doesn’t get pushed around and he looks strong at the POA, he’ll hold his ground and occasionally force running backs to bounce outside. He can move along the line. But he’s not going to the NFL to be a run-stuffer. And there has to at least be some concern that he’ll always look great in these Senior Bowl drills — but will it translate to the NFL? I’m not overly convinced — but will try and watch another couple of different games soon.
Senior Bowl highlights
Jon Ledyard says Charles Tapper (DE, Oklahoma) had a good day (among his extensive notes). “His hands are deadly when he utilizes them, just has to get precision down. I thought Tapper had an impressive all-around day, and his thick build lends itself to a strong-side 4-3 defensive end who is pretty immovable against the run.”
Joe Marino thinks Jason Spriggs (T, Indiana) is helping himself. The Senior Bowl is always a good showcase event for athletic offensive linemen. Marino: “He has the skills to be a starter on the left side in the NFL.”
Tony Pauline also felt Spriggs performed well:
Three in a row for Jason Spriggs/Indiana over Jihad Ward/Illinois. Spriggs could cement himself as a first round pick this week.
— Tony Pauline (@TonyPauline) January 26, 2016
Pauline also praised Noah Spence (DE, Eastern Kentucky), Malcolm Mitchell (WR, Georgia) and Jordan Jenkins (OLB/DE, Georgia) on his Twitter timeline. On Jenkins: “(He) has been unstoppable. A man among boys.”
Todd McShay thinks Braxton Miller (WR, Ohio State) can have an impact this week. “Miller showed great play, speed and savvy. He can still work on getting a cleaner release against press coverage, but he really caught the ball — even when the throws were off-target. And you saw his ability to create big plays after the catch.”
Rosterwatch claim Miles Killebrew (S, Southern Utah) is getting plenty of attention. “One DC told us today he likes him best as a light LB in Thomas Davis mold.”
Every year at the Senior Bowl, a few defensive linemen make great plays in practice. Half of them prove to be stars in the NFL (Elvis Dumervil). Half of them stink it up on Sundays (Daryl Tapp). It’s not a surprise that the defensive linemen shine in these practices. It’s also probably why the top tier of offensive linemen (Coleman, Decker) turn down their invitations. With that being said, the most Seahawky DL that has made waves in Senior Bowl practices is Jihad Ward. Long, athletic and criminally under-the-radar (not to mention a basketball background). Tapper also looks like he would look good in a Seahawks uniform, but only if he’s available in the 3rd (highly doubtful). And who else is assuming that Tom Cable is fantasizing right now of converting Shawn Oakman into an OT?
Oakman weighed under 270 lbs… All of the other DL-to-OL projects Cable’s gotten his hands on weighed right around 300 lbs during the draft. So, while I won’t say it won’t happen, I’ll say it’s doubtful
Daryll Tapp stinks it up on Sundays?
Tapp has been on someone’s 53 man roster for 10 seasons now.
I would say that is a solid career…. hard to stick around, unless you are pretty talented.
RD1
– LB Jaylon Smith
– OT Shon Coleman
– WR Will Fuller
RD2
– OT Germain Ifedi
– DE/OLB Kyler Fackrell
– DT Vernon Butler
RD3
– DT Sheldon Rankins
– LB Eric Striker
– CB William Jackson III
RD3
– OT Adam Bisnowaty
– CB Rashard Robinson
– OG Joshua Garnett
RD4
– DT Luther Maddy
– DE Charles Tapper
– $LB Miles Killebrew
RD5
– DT Jihad Ward
– OG/C Graham Glasgow
RD6
– DE Alex McCalister
– WR Mike Thomas
RD7
– OT Fahn Cooper
– WR Mike Thomas
– DT Quinton Jefferson
RD7
– DE Ronald Blair III
– RB Tyler Ervin
– DE Greg Townsend Jr
– LB Travis Feeney
UDFA
– QB Trevone Boykin
– DT Darius Latham
– RB Kenneth Farrow
– OT Jordan Swindle
My bad, I put WR Mike Thomas in the 7th as well. Never the less you get the picture 😉
I am in agreement of sorts. Lots of good/not great DL prospects. Certainly I think there are a lot of viable prospects in the 2nd round range.
#26 may be too rich. But probably not by a wide margin. Not all first round picks are created equal and a #26 pick isn’t going to have the same kind of player that you’d expect at 15-20. Or in the early teens like Aaron Donald.
These are going to be guys that have something that will nag at you. Kawaan Short was similar in that regard. And to be very fair — 2015 he’s been a monster. But his first two years from an impact standpoint were far less than we got from Jordan Hill in that same timeframe. I would fully expect that if we took one of these guys in the 25-60 kind of range that we wouldn’t really know what we had until maybe the end of 2017.
One guy that isn’t here, but I was really blown away with was Javon Hargrave. If you want to see a small school guy dominate against lesser competition — the tape and production are there.
If you wanted to see how a small school player would translate his game against superior OL talent — he basically was able to work free on virtually every snap in the Shrine game. He looked by the eye to be a difference maker just in his stance. If you have that game on tape still, I’d invite you to take a look. I loved how he was consistently in the backfield and basically in the process of winning cleanly on a vast majority of passes. Just very hard to block and always collapsing the pocket.
If you’re unsure of the Rankins the Bullards and the Butlers of this class for the reasons you ascribe. Hargrave looks exactly the opposite.
As far as OL talent, I do see us as at least standing pat in R1 if we are going that route.
For the first time in a very long time, we’re picking ahead of both Green Bay and Kansas City. And looking at the teams likely to be taking OL picks after Indy at 18 — there really is only Minnesota that seems to have an urgent need at OT. If I had to guess, we probably have 3 OT prospects we’d consider at 26: Coleman, Ifedi and Spriggs. Ifedi I’m not a huge fan of but I won’t deny we’d be interested in him. Consider that Cable (and the organization maybe?) presumes that any guy we take has to be retrained almost in full — Ifedi is a physical prospect that is amazing on the hoof. A guy that if he puts it together has the makings of a ridiculous pro. I don’t see that on tape. But I also know that these guys are a mere shadow of what they will be even after the first TC concludes.
I doubt we move back if these guys are available because the teams picking behind us are also very interested in the same kinds of guys we are. If we prefer one significantly over the others then my money is on taking him. If we really like one relative to the others, I could even see a strong possibility of moving up before Minnesota to get him.
Size is an issue for Sprigs. Weighed in at 6’6, 301.
We are probably drafting for RT and LG, as I think Okung will price himself out of returning. We’ve never had a RT or LG on the roster that size. Of course, maybe we draft him thinking he can add 15-20 lbs.
Spriggs- 6’5.6″ 301 lbs 34 1/8″ arms
Gilliam- 6’5.5″ 306 lbs 34 1/2″ arms
Wouldn’t say that size is an issue as an OT. There’s no need to move Spriggs inside-he’s got the athleticism and length to play LT/RT for Seattle.
Spriggs also a former TE like Gilliam – quick feet and athletic – good to have in an OT
Defo Attyla
Would love Spriggs at left tackle.
What if Vernon Butler and Shon Coleman is available at pick 26?
As noted in the piece, I can’t see them going DT early this year — Butler the only one I’d consider. I think they bolster the DL in free agency and draft for the OL.
Coleman. Easy choice.
Ditto.
If Butler does in fact grade out as a pure run stopping DT with little pass rush that’s not the kind of value you go for in a first round pick. The Hawks have consistently found proven vet DT’s on the market with far less of an investment.
Agreed.
Yes I agree too. The first round is reserved for splash players by Seattle. There seems to be enough depth on the O-Line in this draft that the Seahawks could target O-Liners with their second and/or third rounds and take a playmaker in the first round ala Braxton Miller or Will Fuller. From what I’ve seen so far this draft is really deep and not very top heavy. Maybe that’s something to be taken advantage of.
Personally, I’d take the OT, but I would bet Seattle goes DT every time based on athleticism.
The Seahawks have never really drafted any DT. Hill in the third one year and essentially nothing else from there. History tells us no DT in round 1.
Other than Cortez Kennedy, #3 overall, many moons ago. Tez was a player.
I know everyone is seems to be really high on Kyler Frackell right now but when I watch him in drills today he looks really stiff to me. I just don’t see a 1st rounder but maybe I am missing something.
Same goes for Nassib I just don’t see any quickness or burst. He has good size and technique but I don’t see him being twitchy enough for the Hawks.
Fackrell is not a traditional 4-3 OLB- where he’s playing. It doesn’t look like he’s going to be able to play to his strength as an edge rusher in this game, which is a shame.
Was unimpressed with Nassib too. He played with a pretty good pad level for his height, but lacks strength an average athlete.
And he is a 24 years old.
I agree, I love his ability to rush the passers but all I see is a 3rd down pass rusher and a liability doing anything else. Going after the question qb he looks great, looks lost doing anything else. I don’t see a first rounder at all.
Some guys can “only rush the passer” and they make millions.
Elvis Dumervil is a guy that comes to mind that people thought would be bad because he could only rush the passer. Sure, he was undersized, too. But he was a one trick pony.
I think that when asked that Fackrell has looked good at holding up at the point of attack. He doesn’t look overly good dropping into coverage and doesn’t look overly comfortable in zone, but I don’t care for what I envision him as doing with the Seahawks. I think he could handle Clem’s role pretty good with a few more pounds.
It’s almost like saying (overexaggerated example) that I don’t like Russell Wilson because he can’t play outside linebacker, too. I don’t care about Fackrell’s weaknesses because I don’t want him doing those with the Hawks. I want him at RDE and think he’d be pretty amazing in that role. Afterall, there were rare occasions we’d drop Clem back, too. Not very often, but it was an element of surprise that Fackrell could easily do in limited cases. Kind of like Von Miller and his pick of Brady this past Sunday. Miller kept coming at him and Brady never thought he’d be in coverage and, boom, Miller with the pick.
The wilson comp was more then a exaggeration lol and I get what your saying but elvis and clem could stop the run as well. Something needed to play de in seattle. I’m not dismissing as a player but the tape I’ve seen shows a player who goes after the qb without a thought of running lanes or check downs. To be fair I can’t find any resent tape on him and I’m relying on the little I have seen of him. He looks like a disaster in coverage though. I think Irvin was a much better prospect and no one had him in the first round
The more I watch Fackrell, he looks like a drop end in a 3-4.
BTW, Bruce was a DT in a 3-3-5 scheme for W. Virginia. Hardly ever dropped in coverage.
If I remember correctly, Dumervil wasn’t considered an end who could stop the run though.
He may have been able to do it in college, but he wasn’t projected to be able to do it in the NFL.
You’re probably right. I’m not trying to knock him as a prospect, I really like him. But from the tape I seen (a very limited amount) I don’t see a sure fire first rounder. I have no doubt seattle will have a roll for either. The guy looks long and plays with fire.
They called him olb but I remember him always lining up against the tackle never the inside. I know he didn’t drop back even as a rusher he looked superior to fackrell imo and he was considered a 2nd round pick.
Agree. But my impressions are based on the one tape we have seen on this site. Fackrell reminds me of a lighter-weight version of Cassius Marsh without his motor.
Harsh.
I agree that is harsh, his motor looks great to me
There are only two games in which we can watch Fackrell. I’ve watched his USC game in ’13 and his Colorado State game in ’15 about 4 times each and I see a guy with burst and fire who, if he gets blocked when rushing the passer, doesn’t stay blocked for long. He’s quick, sudden, and makes things happen. I watch him drop back and I don’t care that he does not look overly instinctive in coverage or any of that (like I don’t care if Russell Wilson can’t play linebacker, too… lol). I’m really curious about him. In a good way. If we can get he or Spence at #26, that might be a better value taking care of pass rusher there and then hammering away at the OL in the second round for sure and maybe again in the third round, too.
If anyone gets a chance to watch those two games, please do so and say what you think. And don’t worry about the stuff where he’s going backwards. He’s an athlete, no doubt, but that’s not going to be his forte on the Seahawks. I care about Fackrell in coverage about as much as it bothers me that Earl Thomas can’t be a lead blocker for Thomas Rawls in short yardage situations.
Ouch on the Marsh stuff. That’s a low blow. 🙂 Especially since Rob, Rowdy, Phil, and myself all have as many sacks as Marsh does through his first two years in the NFL.
The tape on Marsh from college is mostly him playing defensive tackle. That’s a lot different, imo, than a guy playing in space a lot of the time.
From what I have seen and heard Oakman has been as disappointing in the Senior Bowl as he was on tape this year.
Saw where the Hawks were speaking with Oakman to see if he would be willing to bulk up. Maybe they are looking at his length and build and see hi as a mid round guy who could play a Red Bryant type DE role on 1st and 2nd down then rotate in a pass rusher on 3rd down.
Braxton Miller is the real deal and making himself a lot of $ this week. I thought he was a 3rd rounder but not anymore. Wonder how far he will rise. Looks like he will be a good punt returner as well.
I think the punt returner position is occupied for the foreseeable future.
Sorry. I assumed you were thinking of the PR position for the Seahawks.
I think we have a guy for that. I don’t think he will be our pick as he will most likely go in the 2nd round.
I could see Seattle splitting up the duties….. nothing wrong with having guy specialize a bit more. I would want to reduce the wear on the WR Lockett. He is going to be very valuable as a WR from here on out….
Rob who is your favorite supposed draft guru on the national scene? Is there anyone in particular whose opinion you really value?
Tony Pauline is my favourite. Opinionated, good sources.
I enjoy the Kiper/McShay podcasts. Don’t see the need to be sneery about them — they’re good at what they do.
Try to avoid anyone who takes himself too seriously or constantly seeks validation.
Thanks
The player who impressed me the most watching this mornings practice was Sheldon Day. He was quick off the ball, got into the backfield regularly, plays with low pads, has a solid initial punch, can push the pocket.
Spriggs and Garnett looked like the best OLinemen on the North. Polian mentioned Dahl as a standout after the practice…thought he was consistently overpowered myself.
Anyone know why Coleman declined the Senior Bowl invite? Was it an injury? Would have loved to have seen him here but maybe it is best if we want him to be there when we pick.
He pulled out because he ended the season playing through a knee issue and wasn’t 100% healed yet.
Thanks I would have loved to have seen him practice but probably best if we hope him to be there when we pick.
Agreed. My favorite too.
Okung getting surgery for dislocated shoulder and is expected to be out 5 months.
I had sugeries on both shoulders for dislocations with pins inserted to stabilize when I played hockey. I am sure the procedure has improved but it is still an brutal recovery and even when I went back playing I had to wear a shoulder harness for another 3 months to keep me from over extending the arm.
For an OT this is a big deal and major concern IMO as they are constant extending arms to max extension and this the when the shoulder cavity is most susceptible to sublexation and re-injury.
I think this will kill his market in free agency.
It won’t kill his market. He has more than 6 months to rehab, and there’s nothing to suggest he won’t fully recover.
He emailed his status to all 32 teams, which indicates he intends to shop himself extensively.
Also, Cordy Glenn is expected to sign a contract extension of at least $10mm APY. Glenn had a more consistent year than Okung and he’s younger, but neither are in the pro bowl. If Glenn gets as much as is being reported, it only helps Okung ask for and get more than what SEA is willing to offer.
I had completely forgotten that Okung had elected to be his own agent – that, in my mind, makes it all that much more unlikely that he’s back in Seattle. Of course, it could prove to be the exact opposite – his own sense of “worth” may be beyond what all the other teams see and, without someone whispering advice in his ear, forcing his own hand in order to land a job. But left tackle is such an important position that I can’t really see that happening.
And nothing to suggest he will fully recover. A new four year contract is a big gamble on Okung. A gamble that I would like the Seahawks to walk away from.
“It won’t kill his market. He has more than 6 months to rehab, and there’s nothing to suggest he won’t fully recover.”
The injury and subsequent surgery won’t kill his market, but think it will suppress it considerably. Do teams really want to spend big $ on a LT coming off major shoulder surgery, who may not be completely ready for training camp? Doubtful. This injury might make it easier and most likely cheaper to keep him around. Needless to say we’re not going to get a 3rd round comp pick if he signs elsewhere.
Clayton said he thinks Okung might return to Seattle for a 1 year / 4M deal…. since he will not be recorded until after the bulk of the FA feeding frenzy is over and there won’t be much of a market for big money deals left.
If Seattle did indeed get Okung on a 1 year, prove it deal, I would think this would be a good for both the player and team. This would give him a chance to increase his value as a FA in 2017 and also give Seattle some options at LT.
If Okung can be had with a cheap deal, fine. He’s a place holder. Bigger picture, Okung has been injured a lot, is above average but not great when healthy. Not exactly a stable anchor. If not for the Hawks’ lousy o-line, he would be quite expendable. How much effort and money should be spent to retain an often injured average NFL starting left tackle?
I guess that d be ok if there weren’t any Good options left. It would probably be 4m for half a season. When the playoffs get here Bailey is in and hasnt had a full season starting. Still might be worth it given this is our championship window. But even so…
As far as resigning him if he proves it, his biggest question is health. Can someone with a history like Okungs prove they are dependable by playing one full season?
When did he say this Charlie? I’d like to listen to the audio.
He was on at 4PM 1/27 doing his daily segment on 710 ESPN in Seattle (Danny, Dave and Moore). They discussed Okung representing himself and that he sent out an email listing the shoulder injury and time table of his recovery. Clayton went on to talk about a OL player who had the same type of injury problem last season, he ended up signing for 1yr/4M… I forget who it was now.
I know some people think Clayton is full of crap, but he is usually pretty accurate when it comes to contracts and what guys might make in FA. He stated he thinks Okung is looking for 11M a year, but the injury knocked him down to 4-5M on 1 yr deal, due to injury history. Sets himself up for a big payday in 2017, if he can stay healthy.
http://mynorthwest.com/category/pod_player_sports/?a=9999434&p=1013&n=Danny,%20Dave%20and%20Moore
First 15 minutes roughly
Rob, how raw do you think Miller is as a WR-RB player? Could he step in and have a 25 catch 3-5 TD rookie year or would he need some more coaching up?
I think he’ll need some time but he’s such a fantastic player in space. I’d have a package for him in the playbook for year one specifically to get him involved.
I’d love to see him picked up by the Hawks. With a greater ability to create opportunities for gains by himself, he could really ease off some of the early season pressure on the OL if the Hawks do in fact decide to make big personnel changes and need time to gel the line again.
Wow. I’m seeing a whole lot of, ‘this guy can’t do that, he doesn’t do this, struggles with this, etc.’ Guys, there’s no such thing as a perfect prospect. Even drafting in the top 10 your gonna get flaws.
Seattle perhaps moreso than any other team’s draft is trait based. Looking for a unique trait or one skill that stands out. Put a prospect in position to take advantage of and use that particular trait.
Will be absolutely floored if Seattle takes a D-lineman with sub 32″ inch arms as well as a CB. Don’t see it happening.
Good point Vol. It is important to remember that the Hawks often look more at the unique things a player can do rather than what they can’t.
Still if you are watching guys and giving your opinion I makes sense to point out what you think both their strengths and weaknesses are.
Also I think it is Ok to say you like a player even if they have less than 32″ arms. Just because the Hawks won’t take him does not mean they won’t go on to be a solid NFL player. For example I really like Spence and my view on him has only improved since I have seen the fire he plays with this Senior Bowl. That being said I know his arm length likely rules him out the Hawks even if I view him more as an LB to replace Bruce than a pure DL player.
Oh I agree. This site is opinon based. Just makes no sense to focus on what a guy can’t do. You’ll pull your hair out and never like anybody.
And it’s absolutely your prerogative to like a guy that doesn’t have Seattle’s specs and requirements.
DE/OLB Noah Spence is my no. 1 ranked small school prospect. I think he’s gonna be very similar to Khalil Mack in Oakland.
Virginia CB Maurice Canady is gonna be one of the best rookie corners outta this class, doesn’t have 32″ arms, but my opinion of him is still high.
Very true. That is what I like about how the Hawks scouting and coaching method.
Me too. We’re starting to see what teams are meeting with certain prospects, and it cracks me up that Seattle has so many requirements for different positions, but they hardly ever reveal who they’re meeting with or who they like.
Give us something to chew on JS!
It definitely makes draft day that much more exciting though. But I don’t seattle scouts care to much about meeting prospects as much as others. I think they rather talk to the coach about the player and let the psychologist deal with the interview.
Let’s also remember that Spence was originally at Ohio St. He was tearing it up there as well. Glad to see his arms were actually 32 not 31. Not a monster difference but some.
Great points Vol12! It’s a bit of a fine line focusing on traits and strengths while recognizing physical limitations what a player doesn’t do well. Fackrell being the prime example in the discussions in this supremely cool blog. He’s primarily a pass rusher not a cover guy. We already have KJ and Wags to be our nickel LB’s anyway.
Rob just listened to this weeks pod cast. Really enjoyed it one of the best yet. Looking forward to them as we go through the draft process.
They got Baylor OL Spencer Drango playing DT.
Starting to see the combine invitations come out. One guy I think will turn up at the event is Cal WR Trevor Davis. Dude’s got speed, length, and route running for days.
Lovin’ me some Jihad Ward. Backstory, former BBall player, still developing his skills, size, length, IMO he’s a freak athlete.
I’m about to put a stamp on this guy as my round 2 pick for Seattle in my mock draft. He’s much more than a big/long 3-tech.
I like reed, thought u did too. Ward > Reed in R2?
I do like Reed. IMO he’s the best DT in this class.
I think he’s a sneaky pass rusher too. He’ll get more sacks, disruption, and hurries at the next level than he did at ‘Bama.
Round 2, Ward or Reed? Reed for me. Here’s the thing though. I don’t think Jarran Reed gets outta the 1st round.
Agree 100% could definitely be our 2nd rounder. He has looked amazing. How do you explain his lack of production.
Kind of like Rankins what you see here at Senior Bowl doesn’t really line up with tape and production this year.
He was productive last year. This year, he had an injury and missed the first 2-3 games IIRC, and probably was never 100%.
He’s also getting better coaching at the Senior Bowl too.
Certainly looks legit to me. I know you mentioned a couple of times earlier this year.
Rankins looked near unblockable in the 1 on 1 drills. Less so in the scrimmage.
Like what Ward has shown for sure. Think he plays too high too often to be more than a designated inside pass rusher for the Hawks, at least in year 1. Great athlete for his size. Looks like he could carry another 15 pounds easily.
Just looks so good out there at the Senior Bowl too.
How is Killebrew doing?? Talk about traits
Dallas seems to like him quite a bit.
Lot of good reviews so far.
Spence is dominating today short arms or not he is player.
Sheldon Rankins looks unstoppable in these practices. The player at the Senior Bowl and the player on his tape this year don’t seem like the same guy.
Spence is so quick off the snap. He’s a step past the OL before they even get moving. One of the commentators said Seattle scouts probably were all over him as a LEO prospect.
I’m pretty sure I saw Tretola stonewall Rankins on a couple of plays. Otherwise he looked good.
Striker stands out as a high effort guy. Gives it all through the whistle. Versatility, athleticism and instincts are a bit like Miles Jack, with a more modest ceiling.
Spence was clearly the best player on the field today from what I saw and I don’t think we will have to worry about this arm length because he will be long gone before #26. Players that physical and explosive are rare. Plus he plays with an edge. I was very impressed.
As long as he convinces teams his past isn’t an issue, and he has a good combine, he’s a top 20 pick. He probably always was, but his baggage is forcing him to prove it at the Senior Bowl.
Judging by today’s practice I have to agree that Spence is rising into the top 20. He was on a whole other level athletically than his peers. To be fair though he was lining up against Clark-who is not ready to contribute- and Drango-who I don’t think is a LT at the next level, but looks like a fantastic fit at LG for our OL. Regardless Spence was very impressive!
Striker is my favourite player in the draft and I think he will end up being a great leader wherever he goes.
Love Striker-he’s a football player to the core. Even the name Striker screams linebacker! An impact player that you just find a position for.
Spence would most definitely be a Leo. He’s the size of Chris Clemons. I just don’t know the length of the arms of Clemons vs. the arm length of Spence (we know Spence’s = short). Anyone? Bueller?
Only thing I can find is PC saying Clemens has long arms and uses them well back in 2013. I interpret that to mean at least 33.5″ and most likely over 34″ long. I thought he had a very impressive wingspan as well, but I could be wrong.
Thanks. If I remember correctly, I think you’re right about Clem having long arms.
Spences are 32
He is TREX 2.0 🙂
Vol one of your favourite Rbs Dixon has looked real good. Particularly catching the ball out of the backfield. I don’t think we take a back in the first 3 rounds but if we did I hope it is him to come in and play with Rawls as the 3rd down back to start.
That’s so funny you mentioned him. I was just gonna ask how he was doung/looking.
Really like KD aka Kenneth Dixon. This guy is all grit, toughness, heart, and jut wants it more than anyone else.
He’d be a perfect 3rd down back in the NFL.
I’m with you. At this point, don’t think we go RB in the first 3 rounds either. But, I totally get why we would.
How’s Arkansas RB Jonathan ‘J-Will’ Williams doing?
I have not really seen much of Williams as they have not shown much of the RBs but Dixon showed in the passing drills incredibly well. Also the back from Alabama is on another level speed wise.
I have been with you about Dixon being a good fit for us and seeing him catch the ball so well and be so physical in blitz pick up is really impressive. I think he could even be the 2nd best back in the draft after Elliott.
Like Alex Collins a lot as well.
Kenyan Drake? He’s very interesting.
Yes Drake he looks like he is shot out of a cannon. Whiffed a couple of times in blitz pick up but man oh man is he fast.
Kenneth Dixon is great. Unfortunately, I don’t think the Hawks would draft a guy early just to serve as a 3rd down option. Hope we get him or Perkins though.
Dixon practically looks like Marshall Faulk on his highlight tape, albeit against lower tiered competition. Having him line up wide in our empty backfield sets would be fun to watch. His player comparison on NFL.com is none other than Thomas Rawls.
What would he bring that is unique that Seattle doesn’t already have in Rawls?
They will not want a carbon copy, they want a guy with some unique attributes or assets to bring to the fold. He is definitely a guy I’m watching for Seattle draft purposes, but I’m not sure his value is right for a second day selection.
He is a great pass catcher and would be an ideal 3rd down back year #1 as he is physical in blitz pick up as well. He would be a great compliment to Rawls. I just don’t think we take and RB that high.
I think he’s unique like turbine was, as in he can do anything you want him tool. You could say the same about Rawls not having a unique trait either. They both play fierce and know what to do with the ball in their hands.
I just can’t see Seattle grabbing him in the 2nd/3rd round. I see way bigger needs and better overall prospects being available at WR, OL, LB and DL… some of which would fill needs on the team.
I wonder if there is a big enough difference to take RB Dixon (La Tech) in the bottom of the 2nd over taking a guy like RB Ervin (SJ State) in the bottom of the 5th or 6th round???
Absolutely, I was more less saying that I think seattle would see a lot of value in him. But I don’t see a RB being taking the first 2 days of the draf.
For a 3rd-down RB, the Seahawks have options outside the draft. Does Fred Jackson have another year in him? Something to consider.
Additionally, Matt Forte is a free agent and can be had on a decent contract. He not only would fit the 3rd down role in Seattle but if there were a Pro Bowl slot for “3rd-Down RB”, I’d bet on him getting it. Not a bad option at all.
Drango plays like the road grating LG Cable would love. He plays with an edge looking to punish defenders. Don’t think he can stick at OT because he lacks great length. Looked pretty quick in pass pro, as long as Spence wasn’t rushing him. Round 3 would be great value.
LT Clark has a long way to go to being ready to contribute. He was overmatched in every aspect. Very disappointed in his play. Can’t teach his size and length though. Late day 3 upside talent.
Clark has gorilla arms
In my latest mock draft, I have the Seahawks taking Jordan Jenkins with their first overall pick, which I believe will be in the early 2nd round after trading down (again). Jenkins could turn into a late first-rounder, but I believe that he’ll remain underappreciated and last into the 2nd. He might not be stellar in any one area nor an athletic freak like Bruce Irvin, but he is the complete package and is incredibly well-rounded, and the tape backs that up.
I could also see the Seahawks taking Shon Coleman (or another OL) with their first overall pick, but I lean toward DE/EDGE/OLB here. Might they trade down with their first pick, then up with their native 2nd and snag an OL in the mid 2nd?
Forgot to add that Jenkins, who’ll line up all over the DL, also has great length–he’s 6’3″/253 with 34½” arms and huge hands.
In my mock, I initially had Seattle taking him with their native 2nd pick and an OL with their first overall, but I don’t think Jenkins will last into the late 2nd. We’ll see.
Remember, this junior class is very good. We haven’t seen what any of those guys look like.
That group is going to push a ton of prospects down the board.
Love Jordan Jenkins. Don’t know about 1st round though. He plays sideline to sideline, he’s explosive, long, gritty, good hand usage, and looks intimidating. Dude is a physical presence.
He’d be a nice addition as an edge rusher in our defense.
Unless he blows up at workouts, he should be rd.2 or 3.
How about we do something that the Panthers did in 2013 I believe, double dip on DTs in the first 2 rounds. They now have 2 outstanding young DT that cause absolute havoc on OLs….
I admit, this is a bit of a long shot…. but there are some very intriguing prospects at DT, which could come in and really increase the effectiveness of the pass rush for Seattle. I would assume they keep Rubin and have some type of 3 or 4 DT rotation.. keeping everyone fresh.
If we leave a hole at DT by not resigning either Rubin or Bane then a ‘double dip’ is a possibility. Hill is entering the last year on his rookie deal. Don’t really see him returning in 2017, unless he goes off next season. Demarcus Dobbs’ roster spot can be upgraded. This DT class, while lacking a dominant all pro type, is impressively deep. There’s viable options in every round.
Or you could double down on a Left Tackle at 26 and a Left Guard in the second. Then you’ll have a great side to an OL.
No matter what, the players you get have to actually be good. Remember the last time we tried that? Carpenter and Moffitt were supposed to give us a great right side for years and years? Yeah, not so much.
I still think we need pass rusher and OL in either order in rounds 1-2.
Carpenter has been serviceable and now has elevated his game with NY Jets. Moffitt was a total whiff, but it was his desire to play football that got missed in the draft process. He just didn’t love it enough to want to play 4-5 years…. I think Seattle has placed more emphasis on this point specifically in the pre draft process now, due to this failed selection.
It’s a good idea in theory. Carolina were in a position though to draft two players who were genuinely excellent. I don’t see anyone as good as Star or Kawann Short here.
Rob have you been able to watch video of the last two days of practice at the Senior Bowl? Based on those practices alone Rankins looks every bit the part of Short coming out IMO. Not sure his game tape is as solid as Shorts was but man oh man h has flashed incredible ability the last couple of days.
He’s looked good in drills but the tape couldn’t be more different compared to Short. Short was vastly superior IMO.
In case you haven’t read it at Field Gulls, EranUngar wrote an excellent piece on the state of the team. I think it is a must-read.
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/senior-bowl-day-one-highlights-my-own-notes
I think every personnel decision going forward should aim at reviving the intimidation factor and physicality that has morphed (some would say evolved) into something else over the past year and a half.
Oops
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/1/26/10834366/the-winds-of-change
I read that earlier today. Good read. My only beef is that he says that Avril is “clearly” better than Clemons. Clemons was better against the run and he always had double digit sacks. Avril isn’t as good as Clem against the run and he’s never once had double digit sacks for the Seahawks. That part was cherry picking (without proof) at its finest. Still, good/interesting read.
Thank you both.
Re Clem – When Avril was brought in for the 2013 season, he was a better player than the post injury Clem. Not as physical and intimidating but at that time he was better. 2010-2012 Clem is a different story…
Mentioned yesterday that Seattle’s next rookie corner might not be at the Senior Bowl or from the Shrine Game, definetly not there, and think he’s gonna be from the junior class or a Tray Walker like prospect.
But, could one of the WRs from the Shrine or Senior games/bowls be a conversion candidate? Wouldn’t surprise us.
Could Tulsa’s WR Keyarris Garrett who is the same size as Brandon Browner?
Does anyine else have a really good feeling about Kevin Smith? He didn’t make a huge impact this year but we keep hearing about hes phenomonal and he had some nice catches in the playoffs. His nickname at practice is ‘one-a-day’ becuase he has a reputation for catching a td everyday in practice. He seems like a much better receiver than Matthews and Lockette. After another offseason I could see him figuring much more into the passing game. Resign Kearse and I feel as if we are good at the receiver position.
Hard to watch that Senior Bowl Practice and come away blown away by Sheldon Rankins, Noah Spence and Braxton Miller today. Those 3 players were on a different level today IMO.
You mean not blown away?
Yes sorry! They were really quite impressive and both Spence and Rankins at positions of need for the Hawks. Based on yesterdays performance if they continue to play like that through the week I am sure both will be gone before # 26.
I saw mocks with Rankins going to us in the 1st and thought it was crazy talk but after seeing him in practice the last 2 days the quickness, speed and pass rush moves are definitely elite.
I would love Okung back on a 1-year ‘prove it’ deal. I was already leaning toward trying to resign him before I heard of the shoulder issue. In my mind, you let Kearse and Irvin walk almost no matter what. Like Irvin, but just don’t like the idea of so many of our front seven creeping up on 30 around the same time. Need new, young, fierce blood.
I’d move on from Mebane, too, unless the price was really right. Keep Okung, keep Lane, and keep Sweezy IF the price is right/cheap. If not, move on. If all we kept was Okung, Lane and Rubin it would be just fine with me. Draft OL and DL early, pick up a project DB and 3rd down/depth RB later, take another stab at a bigger WR and a pass rusher project.
I would be good with all leaving. The only one I think played over expectations was Rubin. Lane was ok, but unless he takes low $ for always being hurt, got to let him walk. Got Shead, Simon, Smith etc…
As for draft: DE/DT/OL should be first 3 picks and would love to add Miller in the 3rd.
Mebane had a fantastic year. He and Rubin did the dirty work and did it well. The only way Rubin had a better year than Mebane is if you say Rubin was a better value at $2.6 million than Mebane and his $5.5 million. I think each of those guys will get less than what Mebane got last year but more than what Rubin got and that’s fine with me. Those two are gigantic reasons we didn’t give up 100 yard rusher all season. Lets not easily discount that.
As was also mentioned by Clayton today on the (Danny, Dave and Moore) radio, he said he is getting rumblings that Kearse is the 3rd most important resigning for Seattle this off-season. He had originally thought he was #5 or 6, but his sources say he is more important due to his chemistry with RW and ST abilities. He also said a 4-6M / yr deal is probably what it would take to get it done.
Did he indicate who might be #1 and #2 on the priority list?
No, he didn’t mention his top 5 in this radio episode. He has talked highly of Rubin in the past. Only name I can think of as a guy who would be valuable and affordable.
I really hope that is not the case because with the way they have structured the Cap spending 5 mil + per year on your 3rd WR just makes no sense given the needs we have. I hope they use that $ on getting Rubin and Lane signed instead.
Does it really matter what option number a WR is as long as he makes the play, especially when he consistently contributes in other ways when he’s not the target?
I am a fan of Kearse. His big play ability and run blocking and catch efficiency make him one of the ten best #3 receivers in the NFL. He won’t command a big signing bonus so his future on the roster will be linked to his production.
I would rank our FAs in order of priority as: Rubin, Okung (on a 1-year deal), Mebane, and Kearse. I think there is enough $ for all 4 if Davis Hsu’s projections are reasonably accurate and if Okung’s surgery makes a 1-year $4 million “prove it” deal possible.
Lane, Sweezy and Irvin are likely to be too expensive to keep. We will get comp picks for each of them and we have options on the roster for Lane and Sweezy.
I’m a value type of guy too. As in don’t pay more then a players value. Having said that. How would things be different if the Seahawks had paid Golden Tate 6 million a year instead of Detroit paying him? He was trading off with Baldwin for top receiver each year, and then he is gone – leaving a hole in the receivers.
When will we pay Baldwin 6 million dollars? Or will they let him walk too?
And finally, when will they pay Kearse? Or will they let him walk and leave another hole in the receivers?
I would tell you that despite spending 25 million on Harvin and 20 million on Graham – they still haven’t filled the hole that Tate left. The only wide receiver who has really stepped up is Kearse and Lockett.
So pay the man. Kearse earned it with his big plays, and he will continue to earn it every year.
2 WRs with some size that have been impressive are UCLA’s Jordan Payton and Baylor’s Jay Lee. Both are interesting and appealing day 3 options.
Georgia’s Malcom Mitchell has always had the game breaking, dynamic ability to stretch the field and make chunk plays, but just never seems to stay healthy, which is a big concern. Thinking about though, if he’s used as a 3rd-5th option in a WR core instead of the no. 1 like he was at Georgia, it should help him become more durable. He does check a lot of the boxes Seattle likes at receiver, but will he ever be reliable?
I read on several other websites that the Steelers, Patriots, and Browns are looking at Braxton Miller as a potential 2nd round pick. I could see us trading the 26th pick for an early 2nd and another 3rd and grabbing OL and Miller in the 2nd. I think Miller and Wilson would be incredible together. I guess it depends what happens with the OT market on day 1. It seems deeper than usual to me, with guys like Ifedi, Dahl, Spriggs, and even Coleman (on some boards) potentially sliding into round 2.
I think our #26 pick could be a nice commodity should Carson Wentz fall that far. There might be a few teams willing to trade up several spots to grab him.
If the Browns don’t go QB with the second pick, they may be willing to trade us their 32nd plus a 3rd to move up to 26 to get their QB.
Do the Seahawks really need more picks though? Currently they have nine. It’s questionable whether nine rookies will even make this team. I think the Hawks need to take their guy at 26 or even trade up in Round 1 or 2. I really like them getting Braxton Miller; the only caveat is that they just cannot go another season with a ultra-shaky offensive line. If Shon Coleman is available at 26 you almost have to take him, especially if Okung is not signed at that time and Sweezy departs.
By the way, John Clayton said yesterday that Okung’s value has dropped to 1-year, $4m after his email to all 32 teams informing them he won’t be recovered until June.
And the day before Joel Corry told Softy he thought Okung sees himself in the same class as Trent Williams, and even though he won’t get that kind of money, he expects to beat his current $8.5MM APY. Even if his shoulder status impacts his value, it doesn’t cut it in half.
The email situation is overblown. His shoulder injury wasn’t a secret. and the ‘improper’ contact aspect is a red herring. The only consequence of that is that other teams are obligated to report the contact to SEA. As if they didn’t know. I can see how it comes across as a bit desperate, but that’s really a function of the public exposure. Usually this is handled by phone call and rarely makes news.
I think the real issue for Okung is that he won’t BE ABLE TO BE SIGNED until June because he won’t be able to pass a physical until then. By that time, nobody is willing to dole out a multi-year contract to an injury-prone LT that just came off major surgery.
Not so. A team can sign him but negate the deal if he fails a physical.
I guess I am just confused how he will be able to pass a physical anytime in the next 3 months if, by his own words, he won’t be recovered until June.
And I think no team will sign a player to a significant contract that doesn’t know for certain when and if he will return to full health.
He won’t take a physical until he’s fully recovered. But that wouldn’t stop a team from signing him before then if his prognosis is good.
Consider the injury. A shoulder separation, even a severe one, is a relatively mild and treatable injury. The surgery is prophylactic in nature – to prevent a recurrence. And he has 5 months to rehab.
His injury status probably limits the amount of guaranteed money more than the APY he’ll get. He may not get more (or as much as )his current APY., but to think his value is suddenly cut in half, or that no team will be interested enough to sign him, is ridiculously premature.
He broadcast his status once, and he’s likely to do it again at each point of progression in his recovery. Teams will have a good idea of how his shoulder will be post injury well before June.
One more thing…
If Okung’s injury ends up being severe enough such that no team would risk signing him before he’s fully recovered (to whatever level that may be), would you want SEA to resign him, even at $4mm on a 1-year deal?
My point is, if Okung’s injury is bad enough to kill his market, why would you want him taking up a roster spot and what could still be the highest salary on the OL?
Really like Miller al ot but I think we take OL, DL or pass rusher in Rd #1,2. He has looked pretty amazing though and would be a great fit in our offense.
Braxton miller looks amazing again today. Hard to believe he is a converted QB. Great footwork and so fluid in and out of breaks. If he runs well at combine I would be shocked if he is not a 1st rounder. Far and away the best receiver at the Senior Bowl.
Can someone tell me how Ohio St. lost a game this year. That roster has to be one of the most loaded of all time. Miller and the TE where two guys who were barely used this year and both are shining at the Senior Bowl.
Elliott was so right about Urban Myers game plan against Mich St. and I still don’t get it. They were clearly the most talented team in CFB this year.
Miller is working his way into fringe R1 territory, maybe even higher if he blows up the combine and interviews. I thought he underperformed/underproduced overall during the season despite some really nice catches. But I can see now that was the result of inexperience at the position, unfriendly scheme and sporadic QB play, not a lack of ability. I think he’s the most exciting/intriguing offensive prospect that SEA have a reasonable chance to pick.
Never thought I would agree with this but seeing his footwork I am sold. He is best looking WR I have seen in a while from a footwork standpoint. They showed him doing red zone drills and he was embarrassing the DBs. Looked like Doug Baldwin with how good his feet were. If he runs 4.5 or less he is a 1st rounder no question
He said yesterday that his goal is a 4.28, but expects to run in the 4.3’s
Rob highlighted the amazing catch / spin move and run Miller had earlier in the year and you could tell he was an amazing athlete and was going to be a play maker but I never dreamed he would develop into this type of polished receiver so quickly.
That is a crappy part about the draft. So many players I would love to see as Hawks but so few picks to get them.
Just yesterday, scouts from the Steelers, Patriots and one other team said they like Miller in the second round. If that holds true the Hawks could be in great position to get him if that’s the direction they want to go.
Sheldon Day showed some impressive athleticism beating Spriggs on the outside to get to strip the QB. Not many interior DLers with that kind of quickness/speed. He’s too small, gets pushed around too much at the POA to be a 3-down 3T. But in a NASCAR package…
Carson Wentz is having himself quite a week. Don’t be surprised if 3 QBs are taken in the top 10.
I’m liking Matt Ioannidis more every day. He’s a nice combination of size and athleticism. He looks very coachable.
Pauline reports that SEA put a R1 grade on Sheldon Rankins.
Tony Pauline reports on twitter
Rankins has been stamped with a first round grade by the Seahawks and Falcons
Could be a smoke screen but interesting two teams looking for similar players would have the same grade. Who knows this is silly season when it comes to rumors and lies. He did look pretty spectacular though so I could certainly see it.
I don’t see what would motivate a team to inform a reporter that. It could be true but, I would just like to know how Pauline obtained this information.
That said, early rumblings are that Rankins is the next Michael Bennett. So … that might be ideal.
I’m thinking a pass rush package of Avril, Rankins, Clark and Bennett would be pretty productive. Those are 4 guys all capable of destroying 1 on 1 matchups.
Although I still think it’ll be Coleman/Ifedi/Spriggs at 1 and Hargrave at 2/3.
Cole Toner could be a good value pick on Day 3.
He does look pretty good considering this is the first time he has faced this type of competition. Looks like a solid mid-late round pick to me.
How do you guys feel about resigning Okung (injured shoulder lowers his value) and drafting pass rushers in the first two rounds, and then picking up two offensive linemen in the third? Sounds crazy, I know, but hear me out.
First off, resign Okung, Rubin and Lane.
The hawks waited on o-liners last year. We have three players coming off redshirt seasons. If we draft another three here, let’s say two in the third and then another one in the fifth, this affords us the luxury of really being able to bolster the pass rush in the draft. The seahawks have put a first round grade on Rankins. If he lasts until 26, I have to suspect they take him. Spence will go in the Shane Ray range as well, possibly slightly earlier than Rankins. Unfortunatly, Spence doesnt have the long arms the seahawks like. Onto the second round. Pick 57, and am extremely tempting if flawed project is avaliable. Shawn Oakman.
Hes got length, size and power. We know the seahawks have shown interest in him. I can’t imagine a front office that emphasizes athleticism and unique physical traits not being interested. He was more productive in college than Frank Clark was, and the Hawks took Clark right in this range. There is a major possiblility that Oakman’s measurables allow him to go earlier than 57, but if he’s there the Hawks won’t want to miss out.
The pass rush was a major disapointment this year. Both Rankins and Oakman can help seattle find that ‘Push up the middle’ that they lacked last season. Both of these players could make an immediate impact.
If the oppurtunity presents itself, adding both Oakman and Rankins to the roster might be too tempting too pass up, even if it means sacrificing possible o-line investments.
Not sure Oakman will provide much push or any increase in physicality to be honest. A classic case of looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.