The fourth quarter in Dallas exposed all of Seattle’s issues

Sometimes the end of a football game spells it out to you.

A defense that couldn’t stop anything, failing to protect an eight point lead.

An offense in the clutch moments, failing to deliver.

The end result is the Seahawks are a .500 team tonight.

Here’s what the end of that game tells us. Firstly, the defense isn’t good enough. Some have bent over backwards recently trying to convince people otherwise. Here was the reality check. Dallas had only one drive in the entire game where they didn’t score — unwisely going for a fourth down conversion instead of kicking a field goal to take the lead. CeeDee Lamb, who was wide open, dropped a rare pass. That was the only time the Cowboys didn’t score.

The unit is not aggressive enough to create pressure yet not talented enough up front to allow the defense to sit in soft zones and be picked apart. Experienced players such as Bobby Wagner and Jamal Adams are a liability in coverage. The pass rush, currently, isn’t good enough to create problems to compensate.

This is despite a massive resource spend on the defense. The picks, the salaries, the trades.

It’s not good enough.

It’s time more attention was focused on how bad this Seahawks defense has been for too long. As Gregg Rosenthal pointed out this week, Pete Carroll’s defense has been a problem for a number of years. The same issues are evident, year after year.

Then the offense. It actually stepped up to the plate today. For three quarters it was looking like a fantastic performance. They exploited Daron Bland apart from one exceptional interception. They asked questions of Dallas and kept putting points on the board. The receivers played well, they made better use of the tight ends. Protection was better.

Yet when the game was on the line, they were found wanting. Three failed fourth down conversions in a row. They needed one, four and two yards on each occasion and couldn’t do it.

The final play was a disaster. Micah Parsons was unblocked and Geno Smith panicked, throwing it at the feet of Deejay Dallas. It was a total bust. After the game, Smith said the plan all along was to allow Parsons a free run, with Dallas the intended target.

On the biggest play of the game, that was your go-to call?

What about max-protect to try and stop one of the best in the world having a free run at the QB and throwing an effective slant to D.K. Metcalf, who had played well all night? How about anything in fact, rather than that play call?

It further speaks to the way Shane Waldron isn’t getting it done as offensive coordinator and the quarterback isn’t absolved of blame either. That comes with the territory of being a QB. When the game is on the line, you need to step up. Dak Prescott did just that with critical scoring drives with the game on the line. Geno couldn’t, in a winnable game the Seahawks had to have. They had three fourth down opportunities and converted none.

For years the Seahawks could rely on Russell Wilson in these situations to give his team a punchers chance. I’m afraid, despite playing well for three quarters, when it mattered Geno Smith came up short.

Here’s what I think it means. Carroll, by now, should’ve been able to produce a better defense than this. Especially for the investment in the unit. How much longer is he going to get to sort this out before serious questions are asked — from the media and from the people making the decisions at the top of the franchise?

The team clearly needs a better play-caller and offensive decision maker. The team needs to draft a quarterback who can become a difference maker.

Many will clamour for a change at the top and frankly, it’s justified. Pete Carroll was 15-19 in Seattle before drafting Russell Wilson and he’s 15-15 since trading him to Denver. Without a top performing quarterback, he has not had sustained success. Just as he didn’t have success with the Patriots and Jets before.

His inability to build another great defense after years of trying — or to create a consistent identity this year — is just cause for having a discussion about whether he is the best man to lead the Seahawks. He shouldn’t just get a pass because of successes a decade ago or because people think an ownership change is imminent. Jody Allen says it isn’t and she also says she’s committed to winning. Therefore, everything should be on the table.

Drafting a quarterback and pairing them with an offensive-minded Head Coach — while bringing in an experienced defensive coordinator to sort out the defense — feels like a plan an increasing number of people can get behind. It would launch a new era of Seahawks football.

What I think is more likely is Waldron will be fired in the off-season, Carroll will remain and they’ll appoint a new offensive coordinator. I would hope there would be some pressure to open the wallet and go ‘big’ on a key hire but that would be a change from the norm. Carroll has had four go’s at appointing an OC and each will have ended in a firing. How many more chances does he get? If it happens, I think they then will be aggressive to get a quarterback in the draft, possibly trading up.

Carroll will be well aware of his record with and without Wilson. It’s clear as day he needs a difference maker. With time running out and with little concern, it seems, for the long term — I wouldn’t be surprised if they traded a fortune to move right up in round one to land someone who can be that difference maker for them.

Whether that happens or not, one thing is absolutely sure. They are currently set to pay a combined cap-hit of $48.1m for Quandre Diggs and Jamal Adams next year. That cannot happen. That, plus money spent in certain other areas, must be transferred to the trenches. This is long overdue.

If you missed by post-game stream, watch it here:


  1. BeingZinfull

    While the final play call on 4th and 2 was egregious, Geno Smith also did no favors by just throwing the ball at the ground, towards the feet of DJ. He should have had the presence of mind to at least throw it up in the air, hoping for a miracle, rather than just making a throw that guaranteed to end the game. Overall, it’s clear that more often than not, Geno unravels when the pressure & crunch is on.

    For this team to win a Superbowl, it needs an innovative coaching staff, a better QB, and stronger players in the trench on both sides of the ball.

    • Chris

      He doesn’t make very good decisions under pressure, this is true. His audible into a running play forcing Meyer’s failed 55yd field goal attempt was another very recent example. I’ve never thought he was good in pressure situations. I don’t think he’s nervous or afraid necessarily, just that he gets hyper focused on specific things and can’t easily adjust when they inevitably turn sideways. Tunnel vision of a sort.

      • BK26

        There are times that you can see he is flustered. It’s been a problem in his career.

      • CJ

        His tendency to lock on one receiver is a huge flaw, though on the first TD to Metcalf he did a good job moving the safety.

    • Group Captain Mandrake

      I think I liked the final play better when everyone thought it was just blown coverage and that Dallas was switching sides in an effort to block Parsons. How the hell do you draw up a play where one of the best pass rushers in the game gets a free shot at the QB? I am starting to think that Pete is just bored and now is actively trying to confuse us for shits and giggles. It’s the only thing that makes sense anymore.

  2. Jon W.

    I fully expected a one-sided blowout so our offensive performance was a pleasant surprise. Yes the 4th quarter execution could have been better but overall Shane’s squad was mighty impressive. Our defense on the other hand…beyond abysmal. No identity, no swagger and above all, absolutely no hope for improvement this season. They get pushed around week after week. Dre’mont Jones is being paid like a star but he is mostly invisible. Riq has measurably regressed, B Wagz has lost several steps and the safety situation is completely unacceptable. At least we have Witherspoon…

    Excellent point Rob about Carroll’s record before and after RW. Remarkably similar to Belichick sans Brady. These supposedly “great” defensive-minded head coaches just cannot win without a top notch QB.

  3. Chris

    To me Schneider needs to go.

    The cap and draft capital mismanaging is simply too much for me to simply ignore. A child could literally make better resource use decisions. If some of these atrocities were truly Pete’s idea, like signing the safeties to absurd contracts or making the numerous and obviously horrible recent trades (obvious even to random shmucks posting online), then any GM with integrity and concern for the team would’ve resigned … unless they were simply incapable as a GM of understanding how detrimental those actions would be. Unfortunately I think for Schneider he just doesn’t understand 7/8th of the GM job outside of the draf process (which he is ok-to-good at overall). He’s going to continue making clearly bone-headed decisions, or let Pete convince him of making clearly bone-headed decisions (it doesn’t matter which. If they damage the Hawks, resign) until he’s gone.

    The coaching has been poor lately, but I honestly think the GM’ing (other than drafting) has been worse. Atrocious, really.

    • Gomhawk

      Ya I don’t get how John is always absolved and it’s all Pete’s fault. If that’s the case he should have looked for a new job long ago. Duane Brown is probably the only trade involving higher than 5th round that wasn’t a disaster. Still seemed like a slight overpay cuz we were desperate. I think the Percy and Jimmy G trade shortened our championship window and then stunted the first reload. That’s a lot of high picks and a pro bowl center out the door.

      • Gomhawk

        Maybe Clowney for a rental too. Better than the current rental

    • GrittyHawk

      As egregious as some of his high-profile screw ups have been, it’s the smaller moves that absolutely infuriate me. The contracts for guys like Dissly, Bellore, Myers, Haynes, Mone… these are players that would draw practically ZERO interest on the FA market. Not trading Fant and finding a way to tap into this year’s ridiculously strong TE class was a colossal failure. Fant has only 28 targets in 12 games and will surely walk after this year. Dissly and Fant have the 7th and 9th highest cap hits on the team, taking up over $15M all for a combined 43 targets. Bellore has a $4M cap hit next year that will cost over $1M dead money to cut him. Myers will have nearly the same cap number as Justin Tucker next year, and for what exactly? Between the ridiculous safety contracts, the tens of millions overspent on replaceable role players, and the millions more in unnecessary dead money, it’s no surprise we’ve had to rely on two strong draft classes to win more than 5 games a year.

      • Peter

        Death by 1000 cuts is why I’m less convinced on John’s acumen than others are.

        The players you listed and the nonexistent return on players recieved from Denver….not great.

        People will say scouting but I’m today years old finding out that two of the top dogs in the scouting department precede both John and Pete by a few years.

    • Scot04

      Pete often refers to someone other than Schneider who is in charge of managing the cap with high praise. At the moment I can’t remember, but I’m sure we’ll be hearing his name again this offseason. So it is someone other than Schneider who is set apart for that role.

      • Peter

        I think managing the cap and allocation of resources could be different things.

        Also there’s a ton of staff in Seattle’s office. I’d love to see but never will a flow chart of leadership.

        Like who does the vp of player wellness report to?

        Who does the financial team go to for direction?

        Not that it ultimately matters.

  4. CHaquesFan

    In my opinion it’s preposterous to blame Geno Smith for anything but the pick. He’s not Russell Wilson, he’s not Patrick Mahomes, he’s not an all time great QB who can pull rabbits out of his hat even if he did against WAS and DET and should’ve vs LAR. He is who he is and he’s paid like a mediocre quarterback. He’s been great for the investment and putting up 35 pts, albeit with low TOP, should absolutely win you the game.

    This is on Waldron for those horrendous play-calls and ultimately on Carroll for lack of discipline and just piss poor defense. The Seahawks are rapidly devolving into the Chargers with a worse offense

    • CHaquesFan

      To be clear – Waldron was excellent besides the 4th quarter

    • Chris

      Tell me the offense will score 35 legit points following long legit drives (I don’t care which quarter they happened) and I’d tell you that’s a game we should win. A quarterback will make a few dumb decisions every game, but if the defense held up their part of the bargain at all, Geno should never have been in a position to make his dumb decisions at the end of that game. And this is coming from someone that thinks Geno should absolutely be cut from this team once the salary cap implications make sense, very far from a Geno apologist. It’s okay to say the defense was putrid when it was in fact, putrid.

    • Ross

      I agree with this 100% The play call at the end, above all else, was absolute trash. Geno panics when he’s pressured and you dial up a play where he will be pressured in under 1 second? I enjoyed watching them for the first game in a while, but that defensive performance was terrible.

      • GrittyHawk

        Not only that, but you dial up a play intended for a 3rd string RB when we have 2 pro bowlers and a 1st round rookie at WR… Kinda like throwing to Ricardo Lockette on the 1 yard line in the super bowl.

  5. Andy J

    I’m a professional pessimist. I love it when people call it like it is. This whole organization is a disaster. And, fans, should be cleared eyed about how the chances of it getting any better are close to nil. Pathological dysfunction.

    • Joseph

      I hate Petehawk fans so much bro. We could only win 2 games next year and these delusional fans will still worship him, blame anyone else, and keep insisting he stay.

  6. Mick

    I had the courage to watch the highlights again. Tackling was terrible and that’s an understatement. So many of our guys diving like in the pool instead of getting their hands on their opponent. I don’t think this is an issue of them not knowing what to do, it happens too often and it happens to our young guys too, I think it’s what they are told to do.

    As awful as the final q was for Geno, this loss is as much on Adams, Diggs, Taylor, Wagner as well as all our corners. You have to hold them accountable.

  7. God of Thunder

    I suppose I could ask this every year, but … how hard is it to demand that the players improve their discipline re: the inordinate number of penalties they take on a regular basis?

    We’ve tried “the penalty payoff is in the energy they bring” and it has been found wanting.

    • Troy

      Some things in life go together. Peanut Butter and Jelly. Penalties and Pete Carroll.

  8. Noah Parker

    Gotta give them a little love for coming into Dallas and keeping it competitive. I almost felt like celebrating when Adams got beat for game winning TD… that guy is such a punk. Please cut him ASAP. Diggs too. They are so bad, getting paid so much and to cap it off they act like they are each the second coming. Unreal

    • Hawkdawg

      And then he got beat for the 2 point conversion. The guy can’t reliably cover in the NFL.

    • IHeartTacoma

      Couldn’t help noticing last night how our punkiest players were also our mouthiest. Why are Adams, Diggs, and Woolen jawing and doing the phony macho shit? It’s embarrassing.

      Also noticed that the Cowboy defense is not great despite some talent up front. Let’s all pledge, once and for all, to never mention Dan Quinn on this blog again.

      • Peter

        They got to get Woolen away from those two.

        The strutting, jaw jacking to results ratio is upside down.

        Will say I actually laughed when Diggs got jumped over.

  9. McZ

    The positive is, that Seahawks had another competent game on offense after a tough stretch.

    The meh part is, someone should have told the defense.

    The bad part is, that this game will be taken by the forces of evil as a sign, that PC and Geno aren’t really the problem. I don’t think PC will end his career won the back of a rookie QB.

    The negative outlook is, this game is not sustainable. For every good game, the team drops two bad games.

    The outrageous part is, how rookies in this systems are not properly developed and are regressing before our eyes.

  10. Gross MaToast

    I’m optimistic.

    I think Pete is on his way out after the season. I think the 2nd round pick they threw at Leonard Williams, and it was truly an atrocious decision, but that was Pete’s “All-In, This Is THE Season” move. I know he says it was the work of JS, but nothing in the organization is really the work of anyone other than Pete. The aggravation he showed tonight, the worn-down look to which Rob referred, seems more like a man currently in the ‘anger and bargaining’ stage of grief. He knows it ain’t happening. No matter how you arrange the deck chairs, it’s still going under.

    Why would he come back? Is there a chance to suddenly win? Among other things:
    – The salary cap is wrecked. As currently constructed, it’s impossible to field a team next season without major moves – moves that Pete is likely loathe to make.
    – “His guys” have not proven to be good, or even adequate, coaches.
    – He’s getting his ass beat by those punks in LA and SF and there’s not a damn thing he can do about it.
    – He’s 72.
    – He has a ring. There won’t be another.

    I see a man trying to act the part of his LOB years – cocky, arrogant, knows something you don’t – and it always turns into the slack-jawed stare when things start going sideways. It can’t be fun.

    I think he goes, but I also thought that in ’20, ’21, and ’22, so I’m either an idiot or due. Why not both?

    The final stage of grief is ‘acceptance.’ After the next couple of games, may Pete find acceptance and move on toward a nice retirement. Everyone will be in a better place.

    • Joseph

      I would love for Pete to be gone. But Jody’s worthless ass isn’t gonna fire him and Pete is too stubborn to believe that he just doesn’t have it anymore. So we’re screwed for awhile.

    • Big Mike

      The final stage of grief is ‘acceptance.’ After the next couple of games, may Pete find acceptance and move on toward a nice retirement. Everyone will be in a better place.

      That would be so awesome. I’m very skeptical but gaining hope it does happen.

      • Big Mike

        Unfortunately my guess is that Joseph is correct

    • 805Hawk

      I agree with all of your points and Pete walking away (not fired) is what should happen. But Jody won’t fire him and his ego won’t let him walk away. My bet is that Pete will stay, change coordinators (again) and we will have another mediocre year in 2024. Rinse and repeat. Then having wasted another year of the rookie contracts of our promising young players, he will finally leave and we will start a complete rebuild with a new HC.

  11. king

    I am not sure how I feel about this game. The penalties affected it on both sides, but both sides have well earned a tight whistle.

    My sense, as a decidedly non exes and ohs guy, is that a desperate Seattle team threw the offensive kitchen sink at Dallas and did things the Cowboys were not expecting. Three quarters later with the game on the line, did Dan Quinn finally make some adjustments? Genuinely asking.

    If we see this kind of offense the rest of the year, then this will mark a turning point, but I am not holding my breath on that.

    Geno has no dawg in him. Feel how you want about Russ, but I miss his end of game fire and magic. Good luck finding that again.

    The defense I am not unsure about and haven’t been for years. Since the end of the LOB, Pete’s defenses have been below average, despite the resources and the professed importance of that side of the ball.

  12. GoHawksDani

    I highly disagree. This Cowboys offense regularly putting up 30-40 points. I think the “defense isn’t good enough” is not entirely true. There are some players that shouldn’t play and are a liability: Bobby Wagner, Jamal Adams, Frank Clark and maybe some others on the DL, Bush, and maybe even Love.

    They made serious mistakes and their coverage or tackling skills were bad, while they didn’t make any plays on the other hand.

    It would be unreasonable to think like 99% of the defenses could keep this Cowboys offense under 20 points. And while there is a huge gap between 20 and 41, I think if you change 5 things (2,5 on the defense, 2,5 other), this offense could be close to allowing only 20:
    1, There were some pretty bad or iffy calls by the officials. I don’t think those were “they cheatin'” calls, but they called it super tight most part of this game. Too tight, and it would suffocate most defenses (you can’t even put your hands on the receiver?). It ruined the game a bit, and they should let them play a bit more
    2, What I already mentioned: cut down the dead weight. Some players are hurt, old, or just plain bad. They need to go and better, younger player needs to come – this is on the team management
    3, There were some penalties that would be called in most games. They need to clean up their game – this is on the players and coaching
    4, Injuries and lack of depth quality – LB room is weak without Brooks, when Spoon had to step out for a couple of plays the intensity of the D dropped a bit. The DL needs better quality and rotation. Reed is great, Mafe is great, Williams is decent…but who else? There are some occasional flashes, but most of the time they are just OK. The injuries are not on the team, but the depth is on the management
    5, The ToP by the offense – this is not on the defense, and if they could close drives with 3&outs it would be better, but the offense scored fast or 3&outed quick. They were gassed by the end. And it’s not even the training, but the time they spent on the field. They could be a better 3rd down defense, but the offense could also maintain longer drives

    I’m not saying this is a great or even good defense. But it’s not bad either. They need to get rid of some of the players and strengthen those positions and they could be good or maybe even great. Just add 4-5 quality players (not high R1s or huge FA additions, just not a liability guys) and they could be good.

    Now the offense played pretty good almost all game. But it was a game in which they couldn’t make mistakes in order to win. And they had some brain-farts. The Geno INT was unnecessary. The rare Lockett drop. Some bad playcalls. The final play…
    And while the OL played good, the lack of consistency show sometimes. And missing K9 and then Charbonnet hurt big time to close out the game.

    The Cowboys didn’t trail all year at home. They trailed in this game for multiple times. This was one of the best games this season from the Hawks. The Cowboys is a potentially an SB candidate team.
    The Hawks need to get there.

    Geno is a starter, but not a top3-5 QB. There are some bad players on the team. The team needs a better and more situational playcalling.

    But if they’d played like this all year long they’d probably be 9-3 or 10-2 instead of 6-6

    I think with a better OC, less penalties, maintaining high quality play from current players, while fixing some positional issues (LB, S, DL depth) could give this team a chance for a decent playoff run.

    I’d try to fix those before moving on from Geno. Not because he’s great, or because he’s a QBoTF, but those issues would prevent this team either way to reach and win the SB.

    So I’d cut Adams, Wagner, Love/Diggs, Dre’Mont Jones, Edwards Jr.
    Re-sign Brooks
    Prioritise DL in FA (no huge signings, but quality guys for decent prices)
    Draft an 2 LB and 2 S (1-1 early)
    Try to score a QB in the mid-rounds for backup and maybe we win the lottery
    Re-negotiate with Geno – if he’s insisting, but wants a longer contract extend him for lower money (like instead of ending in ’25, give him 2 more years, but make his CAP hit 20-25-27-30m between 24 and ’27 with a GTD of 20, 12, 10, 8m)…not sure if that’s an option, but Hawks has some major holes and need the money. Lock is not an alternative and not sure next year is the year they should draft a QB in R1 (especially without an R2). They could cut Geno in ’25 or ’26, if the mid-round rookie doesn’t work out, they could get a QB in the ’25 draft

    • Rob Staton

      They scored points on all but one drive, thanks to a drop by Lamb.

      You don’t need to defend the defense

      • GoHawksDani

        Maybe my bar is too low…but apart from some major issues from Bobby and Adams I don’t remember huge busted coverages or too bad positioning. There were some ugly missed tackles/broken tackles in the 4th, but before that it was acceptable.

        This Cowboys offense from the players to the coaches is good. Their OL is strong and the defense managed some sacks and pressures. They have some talented skill player that showed, but it’s not like 100+ rushing yard or 200+ recieving with 3+ TDs from any of them.
        I didn’t watch Cowboys games, but based on stats and scores they seem like a powerhouse top 5 offense. Our defense didn’t stop them, but slow them down and made their life at least a bit hard.

        If we’d like our defense to stop them and keep them under 20-21 points we would need to cut 90% of the players and all the coaches.
        So I don’t say they played well, or exceptional…but I think they played better and more sound football then most of the recent games.

        • Rob Staton

          They were awful most of the night Dani. They barely had any resistance to Dallas.

          • Hebegbs

            Our defense was terrible. Some tight calls-yes. But an undisciplined mess.

            The really sad thing is they looked pumped up for this game. Motivated to play and play hard. Which means they just aren’t good overall. Some good individual plays, but as a team D they are awful. How can they be this bad with the $ they invested? Hurtt should also be on notice here. He’s a Pete hire. Pete is over the hill. It’s time Pete.

            Diggs can’t cover and I’m not sure he ever could. Our LB’s can’t either. Bobby is HOF but can’t cover an 8th grader. Brooks is just ok. Diggs is cooked. Taylor can’t bring down a QB for a sack and is a huge liability in the run game. Situational pass rusher at best. Dre Mont Jones? I don’t even notice him on the field. Woolen is undisciplined. Worse for Brown. Reed, Williams and Witherspoon looked like our only real players last night. You can’t win with 3 good guys and the rest miserable. Ever Mafe looked swallowed up all night like he had the flu.

            Despite the miserable end and awful play call by Waldron there, I was impressed (finally) with the O. Getting Lucas back mostly seemed to stabilize the group.

            This team has a lot of decisions to make in the offseason. They need to cut bait on coaches and a ton of players to boot. They aren’t close.

        • Peter

          I legitimately think they played better against the niners. There was a point in that game where the defense nearly had us in the game through part of the third quarter.

          Draft LB and Safety early? If by some strange reason they don’t go QB first then it needs to be the best edge rusher they can get their hands on or Center.

          Why we have Adams in part is because Pete and gang can’t scout or train safeties.

          Finally the defense was so soft that my early guess is Dallas remains #1 in scoring by weekends end.

          • Troy

            Stopping the other team is the goal. It’s 11 vs. 11, after all. It’s way too easy for offenses going against this team. And I am sick of watching it unfold this way week after week, season after season. Scheme or players or both? Either way, bad football.

            • Peter

              You can see it coming. The only thing Seattle defense did was get a stop after that pick. I honestly thought the rout was on once Geno made that mistake.

              Other than that. You can feel it like a train on tracks…not just Dallas, but shootout against WAS and the freaking Rams just rope a doping the team til the final minutes so there’s nothing Seattle can do.

              • Troy

                It’s funny. I wish I could predict lottery numbers like I can predict outcomes for this defense. So predictable.

                • geoff u

                  While you can’t predict lottery numbers, you can always predict lotteries and any form of gambling: house always wins. In this scenario, our defense is always the degenerate gambler.

    • BK26

      What I am reading is that the defense is ok because Dallas’s offense is so good.

      It is an incredibly expensive defense. They are to blame. They are horrible with fundamentals. They need to add 4-5 quality players? That is what they have done, supposedly. Look at the assets. Ain’t working.

      And “if they played like that all year?” Well they haven’t. They have struggled week in and week out, all while having complete embarrassments. That is their body of work.

      And I don’t want a decent playoff run. I want to dominate and destroy teams. I want to be a legitimate contender for years. They need to move on from Geno being thought of as any kind of future. If you get him back cheap? Sure, fine. But I’m done with him. Can’t win it at the end. Can’t elevate the team.

      Throwing mid-round picks at qb prospects, hoping one MAYBE sticks is a waste of resources. I say this almost daily now: do the work, quit getting cheap. Find. Your. Guy.

    • Group Captain Mandrake

      Dallas has had a good offense this year. Particularly at home. But they didn’t make them punt once. That is unacceptable. And they gave up the lead in the 4th. Again. They are a big part of the problem.

  13. RMK-LouCityHawk

    It was an entertaining game, a frustrating one, because that defense was awful (Diggs looked particularly bad).

    I usually wait to rewatch a game that I’ve seen live before offering opinions.

    I did want to leave this missive, since Rob can’t drop his horizontal board soon enough, after the game all I heard from the Cowboys fans I was with was that they now know what the Patriots felt like in the Super Bowl….they were 100% sure that DK was getting the ball at the end, they thought he might score.

    *post note* I usually don’t watch Carroll pressers, I watched this one, he sounded and looked like a person ready to retire. All the talk of the NFL ruining the game…a win would have been better, but today would be a great day for Carroll to announce he will be stepping down after this season.

    • BK26

      Pete was definitely…different on the sidelines. Looked more confused (penalties), but also stressed. The whole game. I think the wonky way he leaves is if this season just wears on him and wears him down.

      And if the whole thing catches on fire with the rest of the season falling apart.

    • Big Mike

      All the talk of the NFL ruining the game…

      Just a sideways excuse for the defeat though?

      • geoff u

        The league has absolutely tilted the game much more in favor of offenses, and as a Defensive coach I can definitely see how that would be killing him on the inside.

        On the other hand, all teams have to play by the same rules, and we’re still bottom of the league on defense year after year so…

  14. Gomhawk

    In terms of Jody selling the team, I think people haven’t been paying attention to the Trailblazers. They just entered a deep rebuild with Jody’s blessing. There was also a sneaky statement during training camp and after the Dame trade that the team won’t be sold anytime soon. I would be surprised if the Seahawks are on a different timeline but maybe. However, while PA was a Blazer first, I’ve read it a few times that Jody is more attached to the Seahawks.

    • geoff u

      I really hope you’re right, that Jody does have an interest in winning and she can buckle up and make some tough decisions. I hate being in limbo, both in ownership and coaching on the direction of the franchise. Let’s not forget Paul Allen made his share of mistakes too (Tim Ruskell)

      • Gomhawk

        100% with you. I would love clarity on the ownership situation to decrease the speculation, team situation as well. I hope we embrace the rebuild. Rebuilds can be a lot quicker in the NFL than NBA, but I still appreciate that the Blazers are committed to a direction now. And it doesn’t mean you don’t have some vets around, but it does mean you don’t make win now trades or hand out contracts that likely become untradeable.

  15. Denver Hawker

    I’m losing interest in watching another Pete Carroll coached game. I love the hawks, but it’s a bit too painful and feels like a waste of time.

    Another couple losses upcoming, close or not, might get a few more TVs turned off. Will be curious how the final home games do for attendance and overall fan engagement.

    • Troy

      I feel the same way. My beef is that they are so vanilla & predictable. If I can pick out tendencies as a fan, how easy do you think it easy for NFL teams that study film for hours? Our defense is a joke. Soft zones with no disguise or creativity whatsoever. Yes, the Cowboys are a good offense, but Andy Dalton and Sam Howell did the same thing to this unit. Any nothing is going to change. It’s Pete Carroll’s scheme and philosophies. He’s not changing anything at this point in his career.

  16. Big Mike

    Said on the post game stream and I’ll say it again…….my gut tells me they shot their wad last night and that they’ll get steam rolled by SF and Phi. I think they’ll be spent psychologically/emotionally.

    Oh, and one other comment……..Jamal Adams is a complete fraud, a complete waste of resources and utterly emblematic of the fall of Pete Carroll.

    • AL

      Mike I think your a class act so don’t take this wrong. But I really get tired of the Jamal Adams bashing, so many fans taking it out on a guy who only did what any of us would have done.

      He seems like a great guy and someone who would be a lot of fun to hang out with.

      Point the frustration in the right direction

      • Peter

        Adams gets the brunt because none of us can do anything about the coach/FO but they could have done something about the current situation.

        Rob nailed it in the stream. If he was around 12 million based on rep that wouldn’t be great but it’d be mentally manageable.

        They….chose to have him in line to the THIRD highest paid defender in the entire league at any position next year.

        Unfortunately until they rectify that I think he’s going to continue being the butt of jokes for a lot of us.

        • UkAlex6674

          Right…but Seattle chose to pay for Adams what they did, and they decided his worth contract wise.

          So as AL says the finger should be pointed up the chain.

          • Rob Staton

            I think the finger can be pointed at both.

            Performances, not good enough. Decision to acquire and pay him, not good enough.

            A mess all round.

          • Peter

            On the one hand all the allocation is one side of the problem.

            From just a straight player point. If he was what he was which is a bog standard safety I don’t think anyone of us would ever be talking about him…

            However the actual factual strutting and endless jaw jacking when you give up seven yards…I hate that stuff.

            I’m generally fine with showboating, etc. But do it when you’re balling out in close games or during a lead.

      • BK26

        He was in Ferguson’s face jabbing at him after he and Diggs gave up a big 1st down conversion. He was talking on a lot of plays after giving up a 1st down, big gain, etc.

        He took the money which is completely fine. But he’s a liability on the field. Problem is, he thinks he is the best player on the field and he acts like it. That’s the issue. If you think he’d be nice to hang out with, great. His personality and ego is something that I don’t care to be in a room with.

        He’s the supposed leader of the defense, the difference maker. Instead he gives up bad plays, misses tackles, can’t even stay on the field, and then tells everyone how amazing he is.

        All while crippling the team with what he costed.

      • Cj

        I don’t fault Adams for signing a contract. I fault him for acting like he’s the best in the league every time he makes a routine play. I fault him for acting like a clown when he gets cooked by an average TE. He’s the last person on the team I’d like to hang out with.

        • Rob Staton

          S**t talking with an opponent after they get seven yards on first down is classic Jamal

        • WLO333

          To me, Adams seems like the most expensive tweener in the league. He has never developed into even an average pass defender, and seems completely lost at times despite the fact he’s been in the league for six years. His horrible hands and oblivious ball tracking skills are a house call waiting to happen any time he drops back. He plays like a rookie out there.

          Despite that, his desruptive tackling and hitting skills around and behind the line of scrimmage are excellent. He, along with Witherspoon, can really disrupt the screen game and end arounds that often gives us fits. The problem is, his skill set is really best suited to linebacker, but his body clearly is not. If were 25+ pounds heavier and playing MLB, he really could be something.

          Yet, he’s never proven to be more than a tweener, and he never reached the perceived potential the team had envisioned for him. He hasn’t shown he can even cover at a replacement player level, or that his body can hold up where he has the most impact; around the line of scrimmage. Yet we paid him as if he had arrived as the league’s most dominant premier safety, despite him having proved nothing of the sort.

          • SeaTown

            C’mon man! He’s the best in the nation!!!!

      • Big Mike

        AL: everything everyone else said goes for me too. I was on the road all day so no chance to respond.

  17. AL

    Pete Carroll: “We Really Have To Get Our Game Right”

    Well Pete, You had all those draft picks, all that cap space, those trades, complete control over the Seahawks and what do you have to show for it, a .500 team.

    I think were long past you “Getting Your Game Right”

    Best part of the game last night, Pete’s slack-jawed stare at the end of the game! Priceless

    • Big Mike


  18. geoff u

    In the small scheme, a lot’s put on the play call on the last 4th and 2, but Waldron has to be frustrated with Geno constantly failing to get the first all season, time after time after time, and called something that wouldnt rely on him. I think that says a lot about both of them..

    In the grand scheme, I 100% put the blame on Schneider for having zero plan at QB post-Wilson. Geno (and Lock) aint a franchise QB, everyone knew it and everyone still knows it. And I 100% put the blame on Carroll for being a defensive coach and not building/scheming AT LEAST an average defense in 5 years. It’s kinda pathetic. We can blame and swap out coordinators all we want, want’s changed?

    I agree Rob, with your plan, let’s home they grow through this and grow a pair. But this team misses the playoffs, or go one and done, I actually suspect we may end up a clean sweep. Carroll looks ready to retire or get fired.

    • geoff u

      *hope, not home

    • Peter

      What I can’t figure out is how a guy who had a LB who’s who and was part of building the LOB can not see what is happening.

      Adams and Diggs would be in a more perfect world mid priced vets that get cut in the preseason as they are inevitably found out while some upstart 6th rounder took their spot.

      I know Reed ( FS/SS) got hurt but why previously were they not rolling with him.

      Love is not good but he gets paid commensurate with his output so we never say a word about him.

      But….looking at history w/o superior talent and in huge numbers Pete’s not a good coach. He can’t develop. He can’t identify.

      • Peter

        Side bar: listened to Nemhauser and Simmons last night and Nemhauser had me rolling talking about Pete and his comments about being more involved in third down and getting players into the right position and how there’s a chance that Pete is the best OC on the staff. He might not be wrong.

      • geoff u

        It’s mind boggling how bad we continue to be on defense.

        And as much as we draft well, at times, nearly all our FA signings and trades don’t pan out. Or worse, eat up massive cap space and draft picks (looking at you, Adams) while being the 33rd best safety in the league. It doesn’t get much worse than that. Dre’mont Jones has done nothing all year. Leonard Williams had has next to zero impact. How the hell do you fix this?

        • Peter

          All the wise assery aside…. I really don’t know where they go.

          They have drafted one IDL worth anything in all this time.

          Turns out they need a real MLB. Two safeties. Another edge rusher.

          That all sounds good. Except they also need IOL. A QB. And half this board wants to trade DK while Lockett reliable as ever is fairly obviously trending down so….another reciever as well. Let the TE’s walk and cross your fingers and toes that Dissly and his catch a game rate doesn’t get a season ending injury.

          And I’m not sure where in the third round on out they get all that from.

          The FA moves aren’t working.

          • pdway

            Right – but you’re looking for a flaw free team – and not many exist. I see good players on both sides of the ball.

            When Geno looked good last night – it was a revelation how easy our offense was moving through Dallas.

            I think our IDL looks OK right now (if we re-sing LW); and we are strong at CB. Hopefully, we find our QB in Rd 1, and draft a safety and a LB in R3. Fill more holes in the next draft.

            • Peter

              I’m not looking for a flaw free team.

              I’m looking for a team that is objectively good at something. Not great. Good.

              I think the cowboys are pretenders. Geno was indeed rolling. Same as with Detroit. Neither team do I think beats a healthy niners or eagles at their respective houses.

              Per the IDL. I’d say it’s maybe better than last year. But in any stat that matters they’ve moved from bottom third of the league to bottom third of the league. Improvement against the run from 30 to 22. With running teams still on the docket.

              Draft a safety is fine. Seattle hasn’t drafted a good safety in a decade. They traded a low pick for a good one at one time. Beyond that the DB whisperer has whiffed massively in selecting safeties.

              Even the corners. Witherspoon and Brown. Combined are not having, as of yet, takeover games with regularity or hardly at all. Then there’s Riq. I hope it’s a slump. I’m a little worried he’s going to Naz Jones himself at his current pace. He gets pass break ups but he’s a penalty machine right now.

    • Ocean Birds

      Regarding the plan post-Wilson, there is a strong case to be made that Schneider’s plan was to take their lumps with Geno last year and make a QB decision for 2023 on either a draft pick or free agent. And then Geno played really well for half-a-year. So, they convinced themselves they could roll with Geno (on a contract containing an out) and use all the draft picks in 2023 to upgrade elsewhere.

      I think/hope they now realize that Geno on $30+ million cap hit isn’t the answer.

  19. DC

    I think Pete knew that this game was the linchpin holding this season together. It’s downhill to retirement from here. Unfortunately he’s not the same coach and exec he was when he first got to Seattle and the game has passed him by.

    • Troy

      He has a philosophy he lives by when it comes to coaching. Master motivator without a doubt. The X’s and O’s are where I have lost all confidence.

  20. Sea Mode


    • Peter

      Weird. It’s almost like if you use him to his strengths he can get you 22.3 yards a catch and 3 tds…..strange.

  21. pdway

    Sleeping on this – I realize that at least for me, the disappointment from this game really traces back to the Rams, and to some extent, the Bengals games. If we win those games and come into this one at 8-3, and leave 8-4 – — then, on it’s own, I view this game for what it was – the Hawks going into Dallas and going toe-to-toe w one of the best offenses in football – and playing a close and really entertaining game of football.

    From the start, you could feel the energy was better on both sides of the ball (and the coaching staff too) – and it showed. Geno looked like a completely different QB than we’ve seen the past several weeks. Can’t help but think that that team, and that QB, gets you wins in those Rams/Bengals games.

    Unfortunately, it’s not a vacuum, and b/c of those earlier it’s another lost season where we are now looking at 7 weeks of non-relevant games, and another long off-season before we can hope to root for a contending team again.

    • UkAlex6674

      Good post.

      Totally agree.

      Now can we bring that energy in the final 5?

  22. king

    Anybody else think Witherspoon is getting a little too much mentorship from Adams? I saw some splash plays, some whiffed tackles, some being burnt in coverage, and a fair bit of celebrating hits on plays that were actually very successful results for the offense. (Does any team in the league celebrate a hit on a 9 yard gain on first down as much as Seattle? Question probably answers itself with Adams on the team, but still.)

    • Denver Hawker

      I’m bothered by any individual defensive celebrations when you give up 41 points and never even force the other team to punt.

    • BK26

      Have the same worry. He’s the wrong “leader” for the young players.

      The Ferguson first down where he and Diggs gave it up (and Diggs probably got a away with a helmet to helmet penalty) was just stupid. Him jawing and Ferguson, who treated him like a chihuahua that you just nudge out of the way when it barks.

      There is too much talking instead of stopping the plays from succeeding.

    • Peter

      “Celebrating mediocrity,” or “celebrating me,” the follow up to always compete.

      I love a good belly rolling, hip gyrating sack dance from Bennett or Reed paying homage.

      When you celebrate letting teams get first downs, sack dances while losing, or tds while losing….that’s when it gets stupid.

      Real talk. I think Adams and Diggs might be having a. Evasive impact leadership wise for the secondary.

      • Peter

        Not evasive….rather a negative impact as “leaders.”

    • Denver Hawker

      I thought I saw Woolen jawing a bunch for having a mostly shite game too- no doubt Diggs and Adams set the tone for the DBs and Pete allows it and likes it

      • geoff u

        When you can back up your swag, it’s hella fun (Sherman, Earl), when you can’t it’s hella annoying (this entire defense)

        • Gomhawk

          I think we were spoiled by DBs on a dominant team talking. I always see DBs talking when they make a big hit after a big gain, just seems part of the NFL. It is a position where you need an irrational confidence. The rules are stacked against you and receivers will taunt you on every play they make.

  23. Seahawkwalt

    If we trade DK after this season, do you think Jerry Jones would be inclined to trade for DK after last nights performance? Part of me couldn’t help to think we were showcasing him
    A bit. Maybe I’m way off like usual tho

    • GrittyHawk

      Zero chance. If this front office is here, DK is staying. They’re not going to trade him with Lockett’s decline this year, leaving us with JSN and a bunch of nothing. His $13M base salary also becomes fully guaranteed on Feb 17 so they save practically nothing by trading him. The only minuscule chance of trading him is if a new regime comes in and completely cleans house and some idiot team is willing to cough up a 1st rounder for him.

  24. Scott

    Woke up this morning and watched the game again, without the emotional responses of Thursday night it was both fun and heartbreaking. Paul Whitsitt, a former Seattle Sonic GM, used to always say the same three things.
    1. Being mediocre, a 500 team, is the absolute worse scenario. You are always stuck, never having the resources to acquire the required talent to succeed at a high level. Take away the Wilson picks and where would we be?
    2. Assets are the lifeblood of a franchise. You never pick for need, you pick the absolute best player available. These players give you a chance to move older pieces when needed and creates competition, where have we heard that before? As much as I thought Charbonnet was a good pickup, maybe selecting a linebacker or lineman would have been a better use of the pick. When Zack when down with the knee, where was McIntosh? Why carry him on the 53 if you’re not going to give him a chance.
    3. Don’t be afraid to blow up the team and start over. If your milk is turning sour, why keep drinking it.
    So for me, as a guy who was 16 when I attended the first Seahawks game ever, I can appreciate and love Pete for the only Super Bowl win we have had in 53 years (check my math please). It shouldn’t be easy to part ways with a coach who’s given so much to the team and city. But in my view it’s time for a total reset, Jody needs to sell the team when possible, you hire a new team president and general manager, and let them hire their coach for the rebuild. Geno is what he is, and Rob has identified his weaknesses well. So it’s time to go, draft rookies and go young everywhere possible. And then be ready for the reality of being the Chicago Bears.

    • Big Mike

      47 years. First game was Sept. of 1976

  25. Peter

    And there it is….week 13, 12 games in Seattle’s defense has officially reached the #25th spot in scoring to match last year’s rank.

    • geoff u

      With the 49ers and Eagles on deck, let’s see if we can get to 30! Finally, an achievable goal.

    • Troy

      Give it a couple weeks. We’ll be near the very bottom of the league which passes thr eye test for this fan.

    • Rob Staton

      All this resource spending to remain crap

      • bmseattle

        Get rid of all the expensive and old players on defense.
        Go young and cheap.
        Speed, aggressiveness and hunger to get paid = a good recipe for a defense that can at least make some plays.

      • Elmer

        Rob, let me turn the argument for drafting a QB around a little bit, while teaching the same conclusion-draft a QB. I know you are working on a horizontal board. In the range that the Seahawks are likely to be drafting in R1, do you see a non-QB who is a strong candidate to make a huge positive impact on the team. Not really? Then the potential benefits outweigh the risk. Go for it!

        • Rob Staton

          I think there are non-QB’s who could definitely help. But if you see a QB you like, this is the time.

  26. Troy

    Why is it with this team that the defense wastes great offensive performances (like last night) and vice-versa (CIN and NYG games with good defensive, poor offensive performances) . Can’t remember the last time this team played a complete games. The defense can’t ever hold a lead anymore. But when the offense is reeling they tend to dig in and play better. Why????

  27. Peter

    This isn’t fair.

    The Ravens game both sides of the ball played fairly evenly.

    • 805Hawk

      Comment of the day. Hilarious!

      • Big Mike

        Yep I literally LOL’d Peter. Macabre humor is awesome.

  28. ShowMeYourHawk

    The worst part of last night? Geno, minus the last two drives of in the final four minutes, didn’t play poorly enough to quell the local media’s fluffing for him. If Pete and John are inexplicably retained, this iteration of Geno, the “nearly adequate enough and that will do” version, will almost certainly be back under Center next season.

    • pdway

      kudos for the ‘fluffing’ word choice there

      • Big Mike


  29. geoff u

    Has defense been so neutered by the league these days it’s just not worth the investment anymore? When was the last time there was a truly dominant defense?

    We spent so much on defense and Dallas scored on every series. Philly with so much on the DL and yet they’re pretty bad and it’s the offense that carries the team. 49ers may be as close as it gets, but look at what they put into it? Not to mention having a top 3 offense. Cleveland maybe? 7-4 with probably the best defense and no offense. What are they doing that no other team is?

    And what if a team spent nothing on defense and put all their chips on offense? Great OL, receivers, QB, running backs. And then, if anything’s left over, some key defensive players.

    • Peter

      I do wonder if rolling out with the best oline, qb, etc you can get and just loading the lbs on back with cheap players is the move.

      I hear all the time about CB is so much more important than say RB or other positions.

      I love Witherspoon and loved Sherm and friends.

      After the LOB I personally can not name a top CB for any superbowl winning team. I’m probably missing someone. Nor Top Safety.

      • bmseattle

        The obvious, recent example is Jaylen Ramsey. The Rams invested a lot in him, and he was worth it for them. He was elite when they won a SB.

        • Peter

          I knew there had to be one.

      • CHaquesFan

        Stephon Gilmore was absolutely fantastic for the Patriots when they won in 2018 and got DPOY in 2019

  30. Ty the Guy

    Some improvement. If this game was earlier in the season after a game like Thanksgiving, I’d be down but encouraged. At this point, it’s just not enough.

    “Drafting a quarterback and pairing them with an offensive-minded Head Coach — while bringing in an experienced defensive coordinator to sort out the defense — feels like a plan an increasing number of people can get behind. It would launch a new era of Seahawks football.”

    ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE THE PLAN. Not easy to execute, but as a self-admitting PC/JS truster and Waldron/Geno sympathizer…’s time.

    What kind of cap savings do we get from cutting Geno/Jamall post June 1st? Probably Diggs too. Some of you are tired of the Jamal blame, I for one miss Ryan Neal and think Love/Bryant could get the same production as Jamal for WAAAY less.

    • Ty the Guy

      Took a peak at OTC…. John Schneider is a good drafter. But the amount of dead money involved with cutting Diggs/Adams/Geno is riDQlous.

      • Ocean Birds

        Diggs is gone for sure. They have to be willing to take on $10 million in dead money to save $11 million for a player who is not performing–especially with the need for cap space.

        Adams is the more difficult call. His play doesn’t come close to justifying a $16 million base salary in 2024, but accelerating the the $10 million dead money into 2024 is rough. My preference would be to rip that bandaid off, but I could also see the Seahawks asking him to take a pay cut on the $16 million (knowing he can’t get it on the open market given his play and injury history) and keeping Adams for one more year.

        • Big Mike

          If Carroll’s back, Adams is back. I’ll put a beer on it with anyone that wants to wager.

      • Cj

        Look at the dead money we’re paying this year for guys who have been long gone…

        Gabe Jackson $4,762,223
        Carlos Dunlap $4,200,000
        Shelby Harris $3,270,000
        Quinton Jefferson $2,000,000
        Al Woods $1,750,000
        Chris Carson $1,500,000
        Jake Curhan $583,944
        Kyu Blu Kelly $416,667
        Alton Robinson $404,000
        Ben Brown $291,667
        Jason Peters $253,266
        Chris Carson $236,000

  31. BobbyK

    Penalty Pete strikes again! I’d love to see a stat to see where the Seahawks rank in terms of penalties during Pete’s tenure.

    Why is Pete so worthless in terms of always having more undisciplined teams? This isn’t cherry picking a few games. It’s over a decade.

    Why does a defensive “mastermind” continually field such worthless defenses?

    • SeaTown

      Don’t worry Bobby. Pete will address it in practice.

      • geoff u

        It’s only week 14, plenty of time left to get things right.

        • Big Mike

          Just gotta get things right
          Just need to make a few tweaks

  32. Pran

    We have been discussing the same issues for years, yet they are only increasing year over year. At this time, for fans at least until Carroll is gone there is no hope whether they draft a QB or not. I just hope he does not play kings ransom only to ruin the pick or the player and leave the franchise in doldrums for years to come while retiring. Its apparent he wont be fired until the franchise is sold which is 2025 or later if it happens.

    time to take it easy..

  33. neil

    There were maybe 4 good tackles in the game, the rest seemed to be the usual reach and grab. I guess it is old school these days to ” tackle the belt buckle “.

    • bmseattle

      Come now… there were also, multiple “put your head down and dive in the general vicinity of the ball carrier (only to whiff)” moments!

  34. cha

    Bob Condotta
    Carroll saying openly something he hinted at last week in that he didn’t feel he had team properly prepared for 49ers: “We didn’t practice them hard enough during a short week to keep them in it properly. So that’s my failure. I screwed that up.”

    • Peter

      Honestly I would rather be trapped in a coffee shop in the U district or Capitol Hill in the late ’90’s listening to spoken word poetry then hear from Pete on preparedness anymore.

      • pdway

        this post is some solid work.

    • Rob Staton

      So glad I travelled 5000 miles to watch a team not be fully prepared by a seasoned Head Coach

      Thanks Pete

    • Brodie

      Didn’t practice them hard enough to keep them in it properly?

      Good lord, have we hit the legitimate bottom of the barrel for excuses yet?

      Still less depressing than week 1 – They wanted it more

      The Hawks – where lack of desire meets lack of preparation

      • cha

        Also said this morning that he didn’t know they would react that way to light practices. Said ‘now we know.’

    • Tallyhawk

      That’s Petespeak to deflect blame from his players which is something you want from a coach. The best of them do it and the players love them for it. It’s usually a one-off or at least a rarity though. Unfortunately for us fans it’s becoming a weekly occurrence with this team. Not always Pete, Geno has done it quite a few times of late.

    • Hebegbs

      You gotta be kidding us Pete. Sadly you aren’t. I’m so tired or your post game L comments.

  35. WLO333

    After some apparent improvement on offense, I came away thinking that the play of the offensive line has a lot more to do with the success and failure of the offense than is readily obvious. Despite having to playoon with Forsythe due to age, it seems clear to me that Peters is by far a superior player, and the offense runs better with him in there. Likewise, it seemed like Lucas improved on Peters even more, and maybe the o line gained some momentum that allowed them to buy the time needed to run coherent plays against Dallas.

    But, other than Lucas, I feel that the potential the line showed after last season has waned quite a bit. Lewis’ contract is up at season’s end, but I don’t think I’ve seen hardly any improvement from a promising rookie season. I don’t think he’s justified a pay increase. Likewise for Cross. He supposedly worked on his strength over the offseason, but seems to me to be getting beat at about the same rate. I don’t know that he’ll be worth a srcond contract at this rate.

    My hope is that Olu and Bradford can make up the difference next year, but they seemed to have lost confidence in the former Michigan center. Bradford has rotated in and out, but seems beat up often. Both of those guys look like they have the strength we need to impact the running game going forward….if they get the playing time. I just hope that becomes more the focus as the season continues to slip away.

    The potential is still there for Oluwatimi and Bradford to slide into starting roles, and Cross to become an above average LT to pair with Lucas, and for us to have a dominant O line. I’m not even sure the line has improved at all, and may have regressed. That unexpected development (apart from injury issues) may have had a larger role in our offensive struggles this year than anything else.

  36. JP

    Games like yesterday are how they will convince themselves Geno just needs more help and that he’s the answer the next few years.

    It’s like when Russell Wilson broke his hand but they kinda looked better as his hand healed and there was some weird optimism about that lost season with how the offense was picking up and Penny ran for a bazillion yards behind guys like Curhan.

  37. Submanjoe

    Listening to Pete this morning it occurred to me, Pete isn’t the defensive coach I thought he is. He’s just a coach who coaches “now”. He’s coaching the game today and then it’s on to the next game. Pete’s Seahawks had a run of about six years as an incredible defensive team. There’s been about an equal amount of time since then of progressively worse defensive teams. I no longer believe Pete’s Seahawks are a run first smash mouth defensive team. I don’t know what Pete’s ideal team is or what his “identity” is as a coach. It’s just a collective group of talented football playing athletes who have no particular style of play. All that starts with Pete. Who are the Seahawks? What is their style? Who do they want to be? I don’t know anymore. I see an undisciplined team, a team with poor technique, a team who believes in their own hype, and a team who finds excuses when things don’t go the way they “hoped”.

  38. Mick

    It baffles me how after DK scores 3 TDs and plays so good, people still want him traded. Use him right and he can deliver every week like he did against Dallas.

    • geoff u

      I have to agree, give this receiving crew a real quarterback and sky’s the limit. And what’s our receiving group look like without him? A Lockett who’s clearly lost a step, and two rookies? Eh.

      • Troy

        Pete Carroll says that on the final fourth down play that Dallas fooled them with their defensive look. Can we start trying to disguise/fool opponents with our defense??

      • Peter

        I know people feel some kind of way about him with penalties and disappearing games but DK and Brown are the same reciever.

        Brown has more targets, more receptions, 3% point better catch rate this season, 1 more td.

        DK however has nearly 2 yards per reception over Brown.

        Get a better qb who doesn’t disappear himself for games and I think it’s a different conversation.

        • AlaskaHawk

          It’s the first time all season that Metcalf didn’t drop half the balls thrown to him. If he can play like the rest of the season without a lot of drops I’ll agree with you. As far as Seahawks needs I don’t really trust them to find another good big frame receiver. So they will have to decide whether he is worth the big contract money.

          Also he is rarely clearly open, because he isn’t agile, he’s better at straight line speed. I’m guessing he wasn’t open in the second half or Geno just stopped throwing to him.

    • GoHawksDani

      The issue is that he has 2 games like this per season, 10 middle of the pack games and 4 where he totally disappears.
      With better QB and better playcalling he might be elite, but not sure it’s just those things.
      And it’s not the lack of targets either.

      He’s a superman, an exceptional athlete but I think he’s just a good WR and not great.
      In 2-3-4 years he’ll get slower. The Hawks won’t have a good QB and OC until that happens.
      So yeah, I’m with the trade DK crowd. Not because he’s bad, but this team won’t be good enough until he turns mediocre.

      And if we can get a mid R1 or late R1 and maybe R2 than we can use those for the QB lottery or to strengthen multiple parts of this patchy roster

  39. Blitzy the Clown

    I wasn’t gonna watch. But damned if on the drive home I listened to DK rip off that 73 yarder to open the game for Seattle. And they pulled me back in.

    Kudos to the offense for kicking it into gear for most of the game.

    I don’t think for one second though it buys Waldron any good will or room to breathe. Rather, for me, I’m asking more questions, like why can’t you call a game like this regularly? If you can move the ball against one of the best defenses, notwithstanding the soul-crushing penalties, in their house, why can’t you score a single freakin TD for however many quarters that last drought was?

    I won’t lament the ultimate shortcoming of offensive execution when it mattered. We all know the caliber of player(s) involved. There’s no point beating that horse.

    But the play call on 4th and 2. Now that is something worthy of lamenting.

    On the biggest play of the game, that was your go-to call?

    Think about this: with the game on the line, Seattle chose not to double team, not even to man up, the single best player on the defense. One of the 3 best defensive players in the entire League. But it gets worse. They also chose to run the play at said all world player, with the intention of faking him out with a mini screen style play behind him (not their forte by any means). Put simply, they put the fate of the game in trying to fool the opponent to make the crucial play rather than simply beating them on it.

    Too cute by half if you ask me. And it smacks me right back to the final drive of SB 49, where with the championship within their grasp, with the most dominant RB and running game in the NFL of the day, they got too cute.

    Hey, let’s fool em by passing from the 1 yard line. They’ll never expect it!

    Hey, let’s fool em by running right at Parsons. They’ll never expect it!

    Sigh. I remember when this team told you to your face exactly what they were gonna do to you and dared you to stop them.

    Now they try to sneak a play past you.

    How anemic. How geriatric. Reeks of old man.

    This team reeks of old man. It suffuses them, surrounds them, like a murk, a miasma, a malaise.

  40. Mick

    At least their uniforms looked nice

    • Big Mike


  41. Denver Hawker

    Diggs once again winning the lowest PFF grade on defense at 47

    • Denver Hawker

      I know we’d gut huge cap hits cutting Diggs and Adams, but we’re at a point now where it’d be addition by subtraction on the field

  42. AlaskaHawk

    Geno did show his occasional brilliant side the first three quarters. Even in the face of a real good pass rush! Unfortunately it all fell apart in the 4 th quarter. It’s not entirely his fault as he was hurt by then, charbonnet was not in the game, and the offensive line really stunk it up by then. Not to mention play calling .

    Defensively it was sickening to see Prescott with a clear pocket in the 4th quarter. He could have stood back there all day. Also the amount of holding going on, mostly they seemed minor but for the most part Dallas secondary was not trying to grab. So a stark contrast. It’s really sad that Wiolen has regressed so much this season.

    So I don’t mind blaming both lines and Geno. But I think the real difference at the end was losing Charbonnet. And the poor play calling in the 4th.

    In summary, Geno is more productive than Russell in the first half’s. But Russell had that killer instinct in the 4th quarter that makes him elite.

  43. Palatypus

    I’m trying to figure out how to get the bad taste out of my mouth.

    Washington will probably lose to Oregon tonight, so that won’t do it.

    But, hey, the new Indiana Jones movie debuts on Disney+ tonight!

    That’ll do it, right?

    • Denver Hawker

      Gotta diversify away from Seattle sports – Mariners are going to sit on their hands all winter too

      I’ve adopted the Nuggets (until the Sonics return) and Avs here in Denver which has helped offset Seattle sports pain

      • AlaskaHawk

        Eddie Murphy Movie on Amazon Prime looked interesting.

        As to washing away defeat – we can still root for Denver and Wilson. I’m over any hard feelings about his departure. Or go with the feel good Philly Eagles story. Or just man up and watch Dolly Parton sing while wearing a Cowboys cheerleader outfit! Hmm Maybe the Seahawks should hire her to sing!??!

        • Palatypus

          Hey, there is a new season of Reacher streaming on Prime. Guess I’ll get a Reacher-round.

      • Big Mike

        Mariners are going to sit on their hands all winter too

        Extremely likely, sadly. 47 seasons and counting…………

      • Hebegbs

        I’m with you for the most part Denver. I live here too. Have adopted Avs since Seattle never had an NHL team growing up. But can barely get behind any other sport team here including the Nuggets. NBA is dead to me for what they did to our Sonics (who I loved).

        Big Hawk and M’s fan. Though my M’s interest is waning. I don’t want my Hawks internet to wane with it. Which is why I’m hoping that Pete retires at the end of the year and they hit the reset button. This mediocrity is just no fun. The coaching is boring. Our D minded HC has lost his way without the LOB. It’s over. Rebuild it with some fresh ideas.

  44. Red

    You know what’s going to ease the frustrations from the hawks loss last night? Rob’s new horizontal board 🙂 can’t wait!

  45. Sultan

    I don’t think I’ve ever refreshed this site as much as today waiting for the Horizontal board… LOL

  46. Troy

    This right here is why I am so negative about the Seahawks defense right now:

    Dallas’ offense is elite … but the Seahawks have poured a ton of resources into a group that’s worse than the Rams’ band of rookies and day 3 picks.

  47. CL

    Okay, everybody stay calm and don’t check Twitter / X.

    Maybe the Peacock has done something tremendously stupid.

    Can we just kick this guy out tomorrow? Just do it, so f***** done with him.

    • CL

      Seriously, can Pete just suspend him?

      I feel so ashamed that this guy is a part of our team.

      • BobbyK

        Perhaps my most hated Seahawk ever.

      • Dustin

        Dude is trash on and off the field. Cut him already. Addition by subtraction

      • bmseattle

        it’s deleted now.
        What did it say?

        • 805Hawk

          Jamal posted a picture of the reporter’s wife and put “Yikes!” Classless.

      • Palatypus

        Maybe have Bosworth arrest him?

  48. Romeo A57

    Rob should hold the Horizontal Board hostage until he reaches X amount of contributions to the blog today 😀

    • Palatypus

      I vote for 69.

  49. BobbyK

    Penalty Pete’s Penalties

    Where Pete Carroll’s Seahawks rank in penalties per game:

    2023… WORST in NFL (see crapfest last night of yellow flags)
    2022… 6th worst in NFL
    2021… they actually were 11th so not too bad
    2020… 16th worst
    2019… 12th worst
    2018… 17th worst (so 16th best)
    2017… WORST in NFL
    2016… 7th worst
    2015… 11th worst
    2014… WORST in NFL
    2013… WORST in NFL
    2012… 8th worst
    2011… 2nd worst
    2010… 14th worst

    This is Carroll’s 14th season as Seahawks coach. Under his “leadership” the Seahawks have been in the lower (better) half of penalties per game 2 times.

    In 2018 they were 16th in the NFL which is just one spot away from being in the lower half.

    And the only time Carroll’s Seahawks were decent was 2021. They finished 11th best.

    14 years of coaching and has never been in the top 10 in a good way (least penalized).

    This is pathetic/embarassing. There is no counter argument for being aggressive. There’s a big difference between being agressive and stupid. Pete sucks with discipline and these stats prove it.

    When we won the Super Bowl, we were 8th worst but he had so much talent that the team overcame it rather easily. They haven’t had that type of talent in a long, long time. Now it’s just the embarrassing display of “defense” like we see last night.

    • BobbyK

      WORST in NFL 4 times in 14 years.

      Second WORST 1 time.

      NEVER has the team been in the top 10 for least penalties per game.

      • BobbyK

        Top 10 WORST 8 times in 14 years.

    • 805Hawk

      But what would we do without the “culture” of a Pete Carroll coached team???? How, oh how, would we compete????

  50. GoHawks5151

    This was posted last night. Something that I like about Waldron was that he was build as a guy who watches and keeps up with things going on in both pro and college football. This goes back to the super bowl year for the Rams where they ran some creative things on the goal line that McVay shouted him out on. I applaud him for that. We even saw some different looks last night with two tight ends or DK in the backfield. Also the two tight end counter that is pretty in vogue. This makes me think he has no control over the game plan at times.

    None of this is to say that he should have run that play against Parsons, with Deejay at RB with the game on the line

  51. Rob Staton

    So Jamal Adams is a bit of a prick

    • Dustin

      Ironically his post on x is his least offensive performance in the last 24 hours.

    • Denver Hawker

      You’d think it’s bad enough the Hawks traded for, paid, promote his antics and poor on-field play, but to also know he’s a giant piece of shit

      Plenty of overpaid, bad players, but are at least good dudes. What are they doing with this guy at this point?

    • TJ

      A comment like that about someone’s wife = major prick. What a f***ing loser.

      • Rob Staton


        I can very much live without ever seeing him play for the Seahawks again. What a loser.

        • Denver Hawker

          Adams deleted it already

          • Rob Staton

            Of course he did.

            And if we allow him to just move on, ‘nothing to see here’, it’ll be embarrassing

          • bmseattle

            what did he say/do?

            • RomeoA57

              Wrote Yikes! above a pitcure of a reporter’s wife.

    • James Cr.

      I didn’t think I could possibly like him less. I was very wrong. Total douchebag.

      • Rob Staton

        Get him out of this team, pronto

        • geoff u

          I hate talking about the guy. I’m still pissed we gave up two firsts and a third for a safety, and in typical seahawk fashion didn’t even have an extention worked out and so overpaid to keep hiim. GDM. When are we going to rid of this mess?

        • Hebegbs

          You guys are being a bit harsh to Adams. He’s had several concussions. He can’t cover, tackle or make a decent decision on the field. Of course he can’t make good decisions off it. It is due to all his concussions….

          What a compete douche. Cut him now.

    • Mac

      Totally classless. When your play is this bad, the only things I want to hear is either that you’ll work harder to be better or voice your complaints with the scheme/usage.

      Btw if you want to run into Kam Chancellor, next time you’re in Seattle stay at the W hotel in Bellevue. I see him there quite frequently on my date nights lol (use credit card points otherwise the place costs quite a bit).

  52. 805Hawk

    Pathetic. Pete won’t discipline him. He’ll just say he sat him down and talked about how to handle it better in the future. The problem is, Jamal didn’t backpedal. He doubled down and owned it. Got disciplined by the league for accosting the neutral doctor on the sideline twice and now ripping on a reporter’s wife. WTF is wrong with this guy? Cut him already.

  53. Big Mike

    Hey AL:
    Still want me to stop “bashing” Adams?

    • ShowMeYourHawk

      To be fair, using this episode to justify the existing bombardment is the textbook definition of “confirming your priors.”

      • Palatypus

        I never watch the guy. It just popped up in my feed.

        • Palatypus

          OOPs. Disregard.

      • Rob Staton

        Jamal acting like a horrible human, as he clearly did, is validating a negative opinion. It isn’t ‘confirming your priors’ — which implies mental gymnastics to fit an agenda. That is not what Mike is doing because Adams’ actions actually make his criticisms feel restrained.

      • MattG

        You are technically correct. But sometimes, the priors are correct, too! In those cases, it is good to confirm them.

  54. Palatypus

    Pat McCafee on the referees.

    • Hebegbs

      Agree 100% the refs were awful. Awful!!! But the Hawks D was worse. Especially the highest paid duo.

  55. Forrest

    How can Pete say we “played a fantastic night of football” when his defense didn’t force one punt all night? Dallas literally scored on every possession with the exception of one turnover on downs. That’s awful!

  56. Forrest

    Then Pete says in the press conference regarding the penalties that “we need to clean those things up”. Again – why are they messy? We hear week after week about “cleaning” things up or we weren’t “clean”. Will someone in the media please ask why week after week we hear this repeated with no apparent changes?

    • Rob Staton

      Not one question about Jamal’s tweet either

  57. Whit21

    How about Nick Saban ripping his guys mid game.. i wish any NFL coach did that.. pete carroll wont.. and thats why hes different and wont lead a winning team.. he is too raw raw sis boom bah for players and behind the scenes controlling too much.. he wont give up control or coach hard…

    New leadership needed.. asap..

  58. Ben

    Millen is ripping Adams on KJR at the moment. And blaming Pete for propping him up as a good player.

    • Rob Staton

      Gutted I missed that. Whose show was he on?

      • Brodie

        I think Chuck and Buck have him on a Monday morning QB segment. Looks like hour 3, but I haven’t listened to verify.

        • Brodie

          I just scanned through that episode and it seems like it’s just Husky talk, so it must have been somewhere else.

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