We know the Seahawks officially own the #18 pick. In recent years that has been a good range to be in.
2017
The #18 pick was Adoree’ Jackson, one of the best and most athletic players in the draft. Jackson was a very accomplished cornerback at USC and a big time playmaker — but also a dynamic kick returner. He’s had a good start to his NFL career with the Titans.
There were plenty of good options just after Jackson was picked:
#18 Adoree’ Jackson
#19 O.J. Howard
#20 Garett Bolles
#21 Jarrad Davis
#22 Charles Harris
#23 Evan Engram
The Seahawks were rumored to rate Howard very highly. Bolles was the top offensive tackle in the class and the first off the board. Davis and Harris were both highly regarded defensive players and Engram was one of the most athletic and productive pass-catchers available.
2016
The #18 pick was center Ryan Kelly, a player the Seahawks apparently rated very highly. Doug Baldwin famously tweeted after Kelly was off the board, suggesting he was Seattle’s guy. Injury hampered his 2017 season but he had a very good rookie year.
Aside from Kelly, Atlanta’s brilliant safety Keanu Neal was the #17 pick. Two of the best players in the whole class were within range of #18.
2015
Another draft, another great option at #18. In 2015 Kansas City selected Marcus Peters here. He looked like an ideal Seahawks corner and has since gone on to become one of the best defensive players in the league.
The players taken immediately after Peters were Cam Erving, Nelson Agholor, Cedric Ogbuehi, Bud Dupree and Shane Ray.
2014
This is the first year where the #18 pick was a bit of a disappointment. The Jets selected hard-hitting Louisville safety Calvin Pryor. He was traded to the Browns this year, then cut after fighting with Ricardo Louis. The Jaguars picked him up but released him shortly after.
Pryor was a flop but look at some of the names that went off the board in the teens:
#13 Aaron Donald
#15 Ryan Shazier
#16 Zack Martin
#17 C.J. Mosley
All within striking distance of pick #18.
2013
The Niners used #18 on safety Eric Reid. He’s had a decent career to date and has been a mainstay during the numerous coaching changes in San Francisco.
Also on the board — Desmond Trufant (#22 to Atlanta), Xavier Rhodes (#25 to Minnesota) and DeAndre Hopkins (#27).
Of course, none of this will be relevant if the options in 2018 are much weaker. It goes to show though, in previous years there have been very talented prospects available at #18.
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Looks like a good spot. Hoping we sit tight and take our guy if he is there…i’m a bit over trading bk…wonder who will be running our draft once JS jumps ship to go back to Green Bay? GO HAWKS
If Green bay throws draft picks it could happen. Going to be very interesting
I don’t think he can leave unless green bay gives up picks. I’m almost certain he has a no leave clause and is signed until 2020 or 21.
I think it’s time he moves on, and getting some extra draft capital is perfect timing for the Seahawks. JS hasn’t done much right at all since 2012, bad trades, bad drafts, bad free agents, time for some new blood…an alltime great GM for 3 1/2 years and a below average one for the last 3 1/2…
Interesting how when Scot McLouglan left this organization they seemed to lose their way.. how much was he the power behind the throne?!?
I disagree. I think JS has added to the team 3 straight years/drafts.
This year was really solid despite Malik never playing a down: Griffin and Jones will prove to be absolute steals of draft imo. Pocic was a serviceable on OL as rookie despite being asked to move all over the place. WR is really tough to make an impact a rookie, so we will see what year 2 shows for Darbah/Moore.
Previous year we got 2 starters Reed and Ifedi. Reed was one of the best players on the D, and possibly the most consistent DL. Ifedi has penalty issues, but most OL suck now, I still think if he can get his head straight he can be a decent tackle, especially if he can learn one position. If Vannett can develop into a solid guy in year 3 it’s a solid draft. Elliott and Fant were on IR all year long.
The trades for Brown/Richardson were needed to go for it this year. It is not his fault players got hurt, dropped passes, and committed a million dumb penalties- that is coaching. He has made solid bottom of roster depth trades for special teams over the years, Coleman was huge steal, and he managed to get something from Casius Marsh which is pretty amazing.
And lets ad Mc Dougald and Dion Jordan. Two players that will have big impacts in the years to come.
If Dion can keep his head on straight he could be an absolute monster next year. Having a full off season of training vs Rehabing injuries
I question a lot of things about this team but JS is not one of them, agree 100% with Gerry G.
I am luke (Willson) warm on JS. After the 2012 draft, his success rate since then has been average at best. His draft picks for 2013 -2016 have been serviceable to the team,s success, but with no one considered at the top of their position league or team wise except one. After RW and BW (’12), only Tyler Lockett (’15) has been named to a pro bowl.
Out of the 49 draft picks ’13- ’17. 14 have played any amount of time. 28% rate.
’13- Willson and Simon
’14- Richardson, Britt
’15- Clark, Lockett
’16- Ifedi, Reed, Vannet,
’17- Griffin, Jones, Darboh, Hill, Thompson
JS can’t “jump ship.” He doesn’t have a clause in his contract that would allow him to just leave. I think the Hawks are in a good spot because of the bad teams that will need/want to draft QB ahead of them. That will free up some blue chips to fall to them at #18. If they trade down, they will need to hit on 2 players in the first 4 rounds.
I actually think this year could have some great options at 18. even a little trade down to pick up an extra 4th could net a great lb or an awesome running back.
Perhaps the pressure to get into the top 20 makes a team desperate to trade up with us. I can’t even worry about this pick until we see what their offseason plan will be. Retool? Trade/realize veterans? One more run at this? We all sort of knew that the season’s hopes were dashed on that Thursday night in Glendale when Sherman and Kam went down for the count, even if we didn’t want to believe it. Still, Kam misses games every year. I know we keep talking about Earl but does he want to oversee a possible transition in the last year of his contract? I love Earl Thomas. He’s one of the 5 best players the franchise has ever seen, perhaps. We would have to replace a HOF’er and team leader. It’s going to look very strange back there without the legion, but he’s the guy who makes it all work. If they do trade him, (for a king’s Ransom), they need to use the lower of the two picks to stockpile a bit, because we have needs aplenty. That first pick, however… I want to see us go for a player who we don’t usually have the chance to draft. Clelin Farrell was on fire last night. He was impressive. He could fill Cliff’s Leo spot quite nicely. Now, assuming you did get that first rounder for Earl, (knowing John he would probably kick in a 4th just to make sure the other team felt like they won the trade overwhelmingly), that second pick, wherever it ends up, is your running back. So many options and not all of them are going in the top 40. I’m liking Chubb and Michel more and more, and Harris didn’t do anything to make people think he wasn’t a high end back. Jones had a tough bowl game but that was more Ohio State’s defenive front than anything else. I was at the Fiesta Bowl and I allowed myself to daydream about Barkley in a Hawks’ jersey. The massive amount it would take to move up that far is not worth it, but wow. This makes my head spin it’s such an amazing dream. Hey Cleveland, #18 and Earl, and a 4th rounder for the 4th pick, and a second round pick. It would never happen, but that’s the weird stuff you think about when you realize that both of your teams are done for the season.
Trading Earl for a 1st round pick would be ideal. We have ball hawking Tedric Thompson waiting in the wings.
I’m hoping this is sarcasm… I think the two irreplaceable pieces on the defense are Earl and Wagner, I’d need more than just one 1st round pick to be ok with a trade, and I absolutely think our defense would suffer for it. There’s no other free safety’s in the league that are anywhere close to ET IMO and he’s allowed them to be very successful running the defense that they do. I think we’d potentially even have to change our Defensive scheme if we switched out ET.
Of course it would suffer. No one disputes that. But this team needs to get younger. You can trade him a little too early or you can wait until he’s gone to FA or gets too old to have trade value. The vets all think the team is going to strip it down. Bennett said so. Earl is asking another team to come and “get him”. They know something. You need to get someone for guys when you can.
When Earl misses a game, we usually lose.
Also, D. Payne from Bama is a sneaky first round prospect. He’s a good run stuffer and he’s got the Athleticsm and twitch to improve in the pass rush.
Totally agree on Payne
He had a great bowl game, for sure. Let’s see if they can bottle up the Georgia RBs this time around.
Not having the 2nd/3rd rd picks is tough, because I would love to actually pick at 18, top 20 talent is something we have not seen in a long time.
Will be interesting to see what sort of draft capital, if any, they can acquire before the draft. I am of the opinion there is little to no trade value in guys like Mike B and Sherm. I’d like to see Mike B stick around, and become pass rush/3rd down specialist playing 50% snaps. His cap # is pretty reasonable and you could preserve his career that way.
The only guy I see us getting draft capital for is ET, and unless it is a huge bounty I dont think getting rid of him makes you better.
It would be really nice to be able to put off Running back till the second round and take bpa at 18
It would be really nice to have a 2nd rd pick!
While we are at it, would I be greedy asking for a 3rd rd pick also?
Is there a player that people would be in favour of moving up for if the opportunity presented itself?
Obviously our draft capitol is minimal so it would probably take next years first to make it happen so Im certainly not advocating this.
But if Saquon was still there at the bottom of the top 10? He is a generational talent
I am completely against moving up for anyone; only because we gave up our draft capital for Sheldon/Brown
Barkley.
The defense still played pretty well without RS/CA/KC and a not so effective MB. However, the offense was still lacking in many ways. Get rid of the old guys and fix the running game. Trade back and get a RB late 1st, early 2nd. Chubb/Michel/Jones would all work for me.
Every day I wake up, I want to see headlines “Hawks let go of DB/TC/KR” or “KR hired as head coach and takes DB and TC with him”
“Every day I wake up, I want to see headlines “Hawks let go of DB/TC/KR” or “KR hired as head coach and takes DB and TC with him””
How unhealthy.
Over the last 3 years the Ol and RB’s have been awful or below average at best, the common denominator is Tom Cable, even Duane Brown looked below average since he came to the hawks. Draft picks, free agent signings can’t all be bad, it comes down to TC. Most fans I believe see this as the biggest problem, why can’t Pete see this?
I’m with Ed, went to 5 games this year, wont go to another until some changes are made in coaching staff. I will even goes as far to say if Pete won’t do it, then Pete needs to go.
What total, total nonsense.
Exhibit A for anyone peddling ‘Seahawks fans are a bunch of bandwagoners and don’t really care about their team’
Fine with me, the newer crowd can sell their tickets back to the hardcore fans from 2011/2012.
I was forced to pay $250 for tickets the last two years, flying from the UK to Seattle. If the bandwagoners leaving mean I can pay cheaper re-sale prices like when I went to Seahawks-Bengals in 2011, great!
Just wait until you can go to a primetime game with most of the old guard in attendance! The atmosphere around the Green Bay game in 2012 and the Saints game in 2013 was magical. Nothing compared to that.
^^Agree with Rob here.
Dude Ive been a fan for since 1976, I even travel to a road game every year, this year was Nashville. I’m middle class not rich my money still has a since of purpose and I won’t pay big buck to go see an inferior product. Its called common since, never said I would not watch on TV or support team. But if Nike sells me a shit shoe, my next pair might be an another brand it’s called cap management!
Not literally, but come on Rob. It’s time to make a change. Not being extreme here wanting the Hawks to fix the biggest issue for multiple years now. It’s ok to be a fan and hope for changing a bad thing. You are being silly if you don’t think a change is necessary.
That’s great logic there Ed.
“If you don’t agree with me about wanting everyone fired you’re being silly”
Have a listen to yourself.
No, that’s what you are saying. You ridicule and demean anyone that thinks moving on from DB and TC is ok. You don’t agree, that’s fine. But when you reply to some of these comments with extreme sarcasm, it’s actually you that is putting up a wall of “if you don’t think like me, you are wrong”.
The OL has been bad for years. It’s not because they don’t invest in it. OL don’t get better here, they are stagnant and in some cases do better when gone. It’s time to make some changes, hold some people accountable (PC should be as well) for the same pourous product. How is the montra “compete” if you stick with the same thing that isn’t working.
+1
I don’t ridicule and demean anyone Ed.
When people say things like you dream of coaches being fired, I find it incredibly weak. And I call it out. There’s an obsession among fans about coaches, coordinators and some select players. I don’t run this blog to join in the pitchfork and torch brigade on twitter and some forums. That’s not what we’re here to do. That’s not why I started this blog. I won’t allow this community to drag itself into the mud of endless debates about Tom Cable and Darrell Bevell. There are better things to discuss.
Rob have you listened to yourself, as much as I love your insight and opinions about personal, your refusal to even consider another opinion you don’t agree with is upsurd. You love the coaching staff so the hell with us who feel differently. You love Jimmy the hell with the rest of us. It might be your sight but does everyone got to agree with you? The offense is incapable of moving the ball in the first half yet alone score. You always argue your point that we have in fact spent draft capital on the OL. Ok I agree with that, so then why do they SUCK week after week, year after year? Why do when I watch a Patriot game, I see Brady take 3 and 5 steps drop throw the ball out on time and in rhythm to guys wide open. It’s called good scheme and some creativity. We have none of that, from the eyes of a band wagoner.
No Smitty1547 I do not ‘love’ the coaching staff. I do not expect everyone to agree with me either.
I’ve gone over these points so many times. That’s why I’m tired and exasperated having the same conversations. “why do they SUCK week after week” — that’s the level of conversation people can have on Twitter. Not on here. We’re above that. The reason this community is better than Seahawks Twitter and most forums is because I don’t accept this on here. That’s what comes with this blog. I know some won’t like it but frankly I’m not bothered. I’ve fought for engaging, interesting and better conversations and I will keep doing so. It’s not like there aren’t a load of other places to just type the word ‘suck’ in all-caps.
You’re also literally asking why Brady can do something we can’t. I mean c’mon man! It’s Tom Brady. How many times does Brady do a pirouette to the left hand side and run into a defensive end who is being perfectly run out of the way of the pocket by a left tackle, to get himself sacked? Russell Wilson makes Seattle so dynamic and interesting but you have to live with him being a scrambling QB who isn’t Tom Brady just dropping back and throwing dimes as quick as a flash after 3-5 steps. And you know what? Brady isn’t playing for 30 other teams either.
Comment had very little to do with Brady and way more to do with McDaniel and scheming guys open and play calling. None of which we do very well.
This is the problem though Smitty1547. You’re asking why we can’t just do what the Patriots do. You know, the team with the best QB ever under center. The Seahawks have a completely different quarterback. Couldn’t be more different in style. Do you not realise how futile this is?
If you think it’s McDaniels and not Brady creating these ideal situations in New England, I don’t know how we continue this discussion. Because McDaniels in Denver/St. Louis didn’t have anywhere near the success he’s had when he’s been with Brady.
I recently posted a video of Wilson back in preseason his rookie year throwing on time and in rhythm his rookie year! Then he did it again very effectively when Graham went down and we had no Lynch. We can do it we just choose not to very so very odd reason. Pete and hos mantra of not being able to win games in the first half true enough but you sure can lose a few. Maybe now that we are not in the playoffs but 1 game, he might realize those early season loses count in the record book as well.
This is silly Smitty1547. I mean seriously dude, come on. You found a handful of clips where Wilson threw on time in the pocket. We could go and find clips of that this year. If your expectation is for Wilson to play the kind of QB game Tom Brady plays, you will never ever be satisfied.
I think this discussion has run its course.
As much as i like some changes personnel wise.. what are the available replacement options? its not like you can pick someone from market and plug right away in to Pete’s program and scheme(s).
Rob,
You mentioned Eric Reid. How likely is it that Seattle goes in that direction to replace Kam Chancellor?
It’s possible but will depend on his market. Not sure how much he will be offered in FA. Could be a lot, hard to say. At a certain price? Would be an option. But they drafted Delano Hill and I think they’ll keep McDougald.
I didn’t mean to be redundant on my reply below as I didn’t see Rob’s response! I pretty much echoed what he said.
Yeah, I wonder if Derwin James would be too tempting for them to pass up if he does end up lasting that long. Amazing athlete, but are his football instincts and intelligence at the same level or coachable enough to warrant that early a pick at a position we have other options at?
Given other needs, I find it hard to see them going in that direction and kind of leaving McDougald and Delano Hill out of the picture.
I said this last week… I would absolutely be all in for this. Of course the issue with what to do with Delano comes up, need to ensure you resign McDougald, and you have to trade Earl. I’m sorry, you have to do it. Hurts my bones, but if you want this scenario it would behoove this organization to do this.
Also, if Reid comes in at a reasonable amount (which is a pipe dream I think), you can really look at resigning Richardson at 13apy. A lot of dominoes here.
You dont have to trade Earl. That implies that you take whatever someone will give you. The guy has one year left on his contract, and it will cost a fortune to resign him. He’s gotten hurt twice the past few seasons, and hinted at retiring. He’s played one system his entire career. You factor all that in, and maybe he doesnt have the value Seahawk fans think he does. If you are a GM do you trade a Rd1 pick for a guy with 8 yrs of mileage?
I have no problem with letting Sherm ET play their deals out and get some comp picks.
What do you mean? You absolutely have to trade earl if you want to resign both SR and BMcD. Also factoring in how much Reid would cost would be a huge wildcard. (side note: we could post June 1 bennett and save a few more but this really ties our hands and probably would have us miss out on Reid and blow this whole fun scenario up lol).
And yes, if I am a contending team with the ability to acquire a HOF safety with instincts that will carry him into the next three years of great football, I would. I don’t know what the compensation would look like on the picks end for us, but yes I would in a flash to make the above happen. I’m not stupid, we aren’t getting a high first and second but if this helps us acquire 4 picks in the top 90 picks I’m there yesterday.
If you want to get young and have some player control for the next three to four years this sounds great. Your note about sherm, seems pretty obvious we would let him play his deal out. I would guess very little value in return.
To clarify my first paragraph (sorry it was so long by the way), I am including Reid in that process.
I got you, you’re you have to trade Earl to sign other players (cap wise).
I think Reid could be a great option to replace Kam. Rumor has it he will have a limited market because of his political views but I think he would fit in perfectly with Hawks.
Reid and Mcdougald at Safety with Hill and Thompson or a rookie would be solid.
Vaccarro might be another option.
Rob,
I think you need to start petitioning the front office to fire or ship DB, KR, and TC so that we can stop hearing all this BS from people about how that’s the problem and the fix is to get rid of them. LMAO, I mean I have my thoughts about them but damn is it annoying to see that as the culprit for all our failures. I wish it would happen so I don’t have to read about it anymore. Until, well next year when OC A and OL B mess up and don’t make it work. But that’s future Kyles problem, F that guy haha.
I would be ok if someone else came in and didn’t have the success expected, because at least the Hawks recognized that changes needed to be made. Are most fans thinking if next OC and new OL coach were hired, Hawks would have the top offense and top running game, no. But at least their is hope. With DB and TC, there is none. It will be another year of least first half points and flopping LG to RG and RT to RG and converting TE to LT. These guys keep playing the lotto to strike it rich instead of getting a solid job.
It also restricts our ability to discuss more interesting things.
That’s fair. No more DB/TC talk from me until you write an article. Then and only then, will I voice my strong opinions about them.
Imagine if we had drafted Neal back then.. Woof.
It seems like it’s time to start playing hill and thompson. After next year those picks will seem very good. Next year will be tough , but 2019 could be a good year with lots of cap space and dynamic and a cheap group players on defense…griffen…jones…jordan…reed… it’s time to cut the fat on the legion of boom…they’re still good and have good years left in them, but pete carrol’s specialty is dbs. He can get these young guys playing well. They need to save money where they know can make money…that is in the defensive backfield…not the offensive line.
Thompson has no chance to replace Earl. He is way to slow, and he does not have better ball hawking skills than Earl either. He might have as good ballhawking skills but not better. Thompson not even close to replace Earl.
Speed is the main issue, but Thompson’s ball skills far exceed Earl’s IMO. Earl’s hands have never really been his strongest asset.
They both have the instincts, and while Earl is much more likely to get there in time to break up the pass or deliver a hit, I think Thompson would be much more likely to come down with the ball based on his college tape.
Agree though anyone is going to have a tough time replacing Earl, and a 4.60 runner even tougher. Think they drafted him for SS along with Hill. If anyone has to take over for Earl, it would probably be McDougald at this point.
+1
As much as I love Earl and he’s a future HOF, dude has hands made of stone. I can’t even count how many times he’s dropped an interception.
The man has 25 interceptions since entering the league, that is not hands of stone. Relax on the hyperbole.
I don’t want to see Earl go. If some team makes an offer you can’t refuse then fine, but he will not be easily replaceable. In fact he will be very hard to replace. He has not shown any signs of slowing down, and he is the glue that hold the secondary together. Please please please keep ET3
I’ve wondering a lot lately if we trade down again this year. JS could probably spin like five picks out of a #18, but we haven’t had a chance at a blue chip prospect in a long time like this, BUT that lack of a second day pick is just so awkward. We could trade a player for a day two, but we’re in an awkward position where our players are either too old for value, too young to be traded off already, or already leaving for FA anyways. What do think we do Rob?
Seems like it will depend on their first pick. At #18 they could get an awesome linebacker or defensive end or guard/tackle or running back.
On the other hand they could move down to top of second round, get a third and fourth rounder out of it, or perhaps a bottom of the second round pick. What would they do? There are a lot of running backs that will be left for grabs at top of second round. I would suggest Chubb after yesterdays game. Harrison would be another good choice if he lasts that long. The point is there will probably be four really good running backs available at top of second round.
Yeah that’s part of the dilemma. I feel like there’s enough good RBs this draft that ideally we’d wait and pick one on day 2. But if we trade down than we’d miss out on an awesome linebacker or OL or edge. PCJS usually split the Aces and go for more picks, but it seems they’re aiming for a reload this year which could use a first rounder as starting point, so I’m not quite sure what we’ll do here.
They will miss a sure starter like Roquan Smith, LB or Marcus Davenport, DE. I would find it very hard to pass up a quality defensive starter. But Seahawks have a long history of trading down = to the point where I don’t even watch/follow the first days draft. If only they hadn’t given away those draft picks on temporary solutions.
Pete spoke on the radio this morning about the new guys having to become the next generation to take this thing, and spoke really highly of the 17 draft class** and their plans for them moving forward.
**of course it’s Pete, so everything is optimistic.
The other thing I found interesting was the talk about penalties and slow starts, and how they wanted to/tried to address it, but he mentioned how that needs to be implemented from the beginning. He said clearly fixing those things is the priority moving forward.
Ive said before I am against wiping everyone (Pete, JS) out and starting over just for the sake of change. I highly doubt you are going to get anyone better. They deserve the shot to fix this as best as they see fit.
Honestly slow starts and penalties have been an issue for years now. If that wasn’t already a priority and implemented from day 1 of the season then what in the world.
Was it just me, or did our defense seem to improve in the 2nd half when we had big #98 Garrison Smith in there instead of Sheldon? I thought he looked bigger than Sheldon, but I checked now and they are both listed at 294-5. Maybe it’s just his build then.
Another reason to not to overpay to keep Sheldon maybe…? Put Smith/Naz next to Reed on running downs, then rotate in Bennett/Jefferson/McDowell on rushing downs.
The more I think about it, the more this group seems like enough to me:
Base downs: Jordan/Reed/G. Smith or Naz/Clark
Passing downs: Jordan/Bennett/Jefferson or McDowell/Clark
EDGE depth: Marcus Smith, Jefferson, Branden Jackson, Bennett, R5 athletic project.
What do you guys think? Too much faith in Dion Jordan too soon? Davenport would be a great addition, but it seems like we are going to have to go RB early if we want to fix the run game.
I like the idea. Richarson is good but not $15 mil per year good IMO.
The defense definitely wore down towards the end of the season. You could see based on how effective other team’s rushing attacks were. Too many snaps from our older guys and probably not coincidentally those same players were playing through injuries.
I think Dion Jordan showed that he’ll be a really effective in a rotation, if not compete for a starting role next year.
Two things about Dion
1) he played RDE spelling Frank. How would he handle playing LDE if he starts? Some players struggle playing the other side. Cliff only played LDE and Frank tried to play LDE when we signed Freeney and really struggled.
2) Playing more snaps. With a long layoff I don’t think we can expect him to play 50+ snaps game in and game out in ‘18. Could he handle it or would he lose his effectiveness.
I like Sheldon Richardson a lot, but I think they have to let him go and use the money for other players. They need to spend a year in the rebuild, and I just don’t see him as part of that rebuild. Resigning defensive ends is more important.
Sounds pretty clear from Pete’s presser today Avril and Kam are done.
Sad to see two great players and leaders go out like this. Really hope it does not affect their long term health. Another reminder what a toll this game takes on these guys.
Not to sound cold but what are the cap implications of Kam and Avril retiring?
Hope both guys stay with organization if possible. I think Kam will be a great coach.
There was a great article on FG a month or so back about Kam. Basically it said he wont retire because it will cost him millions of dollars. He is better off staying and failing a physical and getting an injury guarantee. If we release him, huge cap hit to the team.
Wonder if they can work out a deal where he retires to reduce cap hit then pay him the $ as a coach?
If we release Cliff Avril we will save $7,5 million in cap space. Kams contract is more complicated as it can come down to his physical. He has a $12 million injury guarantee that will kick in if he cant continue due to injury. If they have the chance to release him they could either save $2.3 million in cap space by not paying him his $9.8 million in salary and eating his $7.5 million in dead money all at once or they could make him a post June 1st designation and only pay $2.5 million of dead money this year and the remaining $5 million next year. This option would save you $7.3 million in space. So if they can get out from under the $12 million injury guarantee there is basically 2 options:
Option 1:
$9.8 million salary – $7.5 million in signing bonus dead money = $2.3 cap space savings
Option 2:
$9.8 million salary – $2.5 million in signing bonus dead money = $7.3 cap space savings
Then you eat the remaining $5 million in dead money in 2019
At least thats how I understand it.
His 2018 salary becomes fully guaranteed on 2/9/2018 so we have about 5 weeks to figure it out.
No simple solution is there. Pretty clear they wanted to take care of Kam.
Thanks Greg for the explanation greatly appreciated.
Its for sure going to be an interesting one with an end date just 5 weeks away. Not sure how it plays out but it will affect the rest of the off-season Im sure.
excellent breakdown
If 2018-2019 is going to be a turnover / slight rebuild year I don’t see the point in not trading Earl, Bennett and Sherm. Take the draft capital and cap space then play the young guys.
Sounds sill but if they are not going to be an SB contender I would prefer to go 4-12 than 8-8. That way we get to add a true blue chip top 5 prospect and pick early each round for a change. Play the young guys and build toward a legit SB run in 2019-20.
Option B is hang onto Earl, Sherm and Bennett. Hope everyone stays healthy, try to fix the run game, then give this core one more shot. I just don’t see it.
I can’t agree with your preference of 4-12 over 8-8, because that would most likely mean major regression from Russell Wilson. One thing that cannot happen to this franchise is Russell Wilson sustaining a major injury or regressing hard.
That is why I think focus #1 this off season has to be finally fixing OL and run game to avoid a regression, keep him healthy and let him continue developing as a pocket passer. Russ is the franchise now and they need to start protecting that.
I don’t get why everyone wants to tank for a draft pick so badly. I don’t think that’s how it works. The Browns ‘win’ the draft every year with a bunch of top picks and look where they are. Conversely, the Patriots are always pointed to as a model of success, and they’ve been picking bottom barrel for like the last couple decades. Like I can’t even name the last few first rounders the Pats picked. Success in the NFL is predicated more on smart organization and game planning, not this weird game of failure chicken.
It is not tanking. It is taking your lumps in one year (cut vets, play youth) so you don’t become the Lions 8-8 every year. Please read what I wrote.
It’s not that binary though. You can play some vets, while building and rotating youth at the same time. Even if we do go all youth I’d rather see them go 8-8 and have some fight in them, rather than flop for a high pick.
I am not saying they should flop I am saying just take your medicine in one dose not many.
They will get some good draft choices at #18 – and they didn’t need to flop to get them. Unless you need a quarterback, no reason to go lower.
Rams and Saints were the top two teams via DVOA this season. I could see the NFC championship game with that matchup. I could also just as easily see Minnesota vs. Philly, Philly’s defense is still elite and they just need a few drives from Foles to steal a win.
Carolina and Atlanta I can’t see doing much. Both their offenses are pretty bad, Carolina’s especially. Good D’s, but not on the same level as Minnesota or Philly.
Some free agents who are still young and would not break the bank.
Eric Reid (SS)- If Hill is not ready I cannot think of anyone better to replace Kam and slide Mcdougald to FS. His backing of Kap will likely limit his market.
DJ Fluker (LG) Big mauling LG who played his first year at G with the Giants. When he played the Giants run game was vastly improved. If we switch from ZBS he might be a great fit at LG next to Brown. He can also back up the OT spot.
Terrell Pryor (WR) Had a down year with injury but might be the big WR this team has lacked and take some of Grahams red zone target.
Ziggy Anzah- An elite Edge rusher when healthy. Coming off a down year but if they can get him right he would be an ideal LEO. All comes down to cost and his health but an Edge rotation of Clark, Jordan and Anzah would be scary.
All 4 have some concerns and that is why getting them on a team friendly deal might be possible. They could each excel with the Hawks if things go right as well.
I don’t think Reid’s politcal views will limit his market much. However I think his concussion history will.
No thank you on Pryor.
Agreed on Pryor. Take a look at his “big ” year in Cleveland and how many targets it took … He would not fit in this offense at all. We need sure handed guys who don’t mind blocking and catch their opportunities. That is not Pryor.
This is a down year for receivers across the board, makes me think and effort will be made to keep Graham. Get a blocking TE in here and let JG split out wide.
Not sure i understand why anyone would be interested in Pryor after this year. He’s been a total flop, probably needs to go back to the Brownr on a cheap deal to get it going again
Pete Carroll says upgrading running-back position is a primary concern for Seahawks this offseason
This is the same man who said that restarting the running game was their top priority the last two seasons. Perhaps he and John should get to together and formulate a plan that doesn’t involve blowing $12 million dollars on a washed up running back and a first round bust at guard. Personal decisions have been hit and miss, but those two should have been predicted by those two, much like they were by many of us. Guys clinging to hope to stay in the league shouldn’t get millions of dollars over the veteran minimum. Also, don’t let the Texans bend you over and take a third round pick just because they want it.
Hard to argue with that. I hated both Joeckel and Lacy signings when they happened. Not sure I agree about Texans but it did seem like desperation. Brown could make a big difference the next couple of years however.
Gave up (2) 3rds for a decent Left tackle. I’m okay with it
Except it all starts with the Seahawks not being able to pick a left tackle two years ago. And apparently they can’t pick a guard either. Something has to change in their draft picks on offensive line.
Nobody is selecting top notch LT from college right now, Rob has numerous articles to back this point up
We had a deal in place. Lane was fine, yet they failed him on the physical. They probably had a change of heart and flat out fabricated it. Lane played the next week. He was fine. They saw what they wanted to see and we were past the point of no return.
My take on the Pete Carroll end of season press conference.
1. Pete not going anywhere.
2. John Schneider to Green Bay has legs. (Pete did not deny outright)
3. Cliff and Kam are not going to be on 2018 Seahawks.
4. Earl Thomas up for trade is for real.
5. Sherman and Bennett gone unless come back on cap friendly deals. Pete done with the social issues.
6. Jimmy Graham gone unless team friendly deal.
7. 50/50 on Sheldon Richardson back doesn’t want to lose 2nd round pick, needs to be average to slightly above average deal.
8. Duane Brown is our left tackle next year and beyond.
9. ugh Infedi is our right tackle. I think Fant beats him out.
10. Loading up on OLine(free agency) and running back(draft)
11. Forgot McDougal, Bmax and Coleman the replacement LOB. LOL
12. How could I forget? No significant position coaching changes unless hired by someone else. IMO (need some change in Qb coach to develop RW)
13. Not addressed in press conference. Unless I missed it. John Ryan and Blair Walsh are gone.
Agree with almost everything! Pete is not afraid of change lots of change coming. Pete’s strength is young players & players who match his winning philosophy like Russell Wilson! All we need to do is find players who think like Russell Wilson. I’m suspicious of Tom Cable having a substance abuse issue.
Give a listen to 710espn Pete Carol radio show. Many of these are not what he said
C’mon man, quit scapegoating the second year guy who outplayed Brown all game yesterday. Penalties can be fixed and if you get rid of them he’s been one of our better linemen, Britt has been blowing more blocks for heavens sake, and people talk up Pocic but he’s a big reason our run game doesn’t work! Yet you’re so critical of the guy who can move his man. C’mon dude the man is more serviceable than Britt was year 2
Del Tre & sub 80 do you guys think its possible Pete is dressing Brown up to be traded?
Not either of those guys, but I don’t see the logic in trading Brown at all. We spent all that capital to finally have a competent lineman… just to trade him off? What would we even get out of that? A draft pick for a younger O-Lineman so we can pray he’s not another bust? A defensive player, so our defense is still good, but our line is duct-tape and bubblegum for another year? Sorry, but I just don’t get it.
I’ve had that thought before, but i doubt we get the proper trade value. He’ll be even better next year with training camp and no ankle sprain
Not going to be anywhere the 18 pick but Oregon State RB Ryan Nall declared today. Though the last couple years have been particularly bad for OSU, Nall has a bunch of potential. At 6’2” 237 he meets Seattle’s preferred size. He also has good burst and long speed and should run in the 4.5 range. Has been a bit nicked up but nothing major. Not sure his range because of his relative anonymity. I’d say 5th through UDFA. I’d love to see him get a chance in Seattle. Also played some LB early in career so maybe a conversion too.
I’ll be pleasantly surprised if Nall runs a 4.5. I love his running style and really the only questions I have on him are his burst and overall speed.
Fournette ran a 4.5 at a similar size and we kind of marveled at that. I have to think that if Nall had a similar combine he would be shooting up the board.
Just watching the ND/LSU game.
Awful game but wow Quenton Nelson is a beast. He is the best college interior lineman I have seen. Has to be top 10 pick but wow I wish the Hawks could somehow get him. Imagine the run game with him and Brown on on the left side. If not hope he goes to an AFC team not SF.
Any thoughts on a trade for Eli Apple Giants are going to get rid of him for his beef with Landon Collins and such. I wonder if we can get him for a 4th or 5th.
A 6th or 7th might be a good deal, not exactly the kind of guy i think this team wants at the moment, especially with really good young CB depth in Shaq, Elliot, and Coleman. Would rather see us keep those guys and maybe draft Adonis Alexander, as Apple is a slot corner more than anything else.
All about acquiring talent at expensive position, tag will be maybe 15 mil a year for cb in 2018. You get three years control on the cheap. Coleman is ufa in 2019 so is Sherm. Adonis Alexander wont come out this year NFL Draft Scout (Rang/Bugler) don’t have him in top 350 and have him listed as SS. I would not mind taking chances on CB with off field issues with nice ceilings such as apple or Jaylen Collins if it doesn’t cost me much.
Could be worth a shot but since he was a first rounder his last two salary years are $1.8 million and $2.5 million
That’s a really odd spot to pick in this draft.
Gonna be similar value from 20-60 imo
http://www.seahawks.com/video/2018/01/02/pete-carroll-end-season-press-conference
PC end of year presser was a good listen, esp the first 10 min when he just talks before taking questions. I know he can sometimes come across as the eternal optimist, but I really like the way he talked about the state of the team and his excitement for the challenge that lies ahead. Good points for us to talk about and take into consideration as we play offseason armchair GM and scout the draft.
1. Philosophy will not be changing one bit. We will run the ball and play defense. He rightfully says to look around the league and see what that same formula has done for teams this year (Jags, Rams, Philly). Impossible to deny, really.
2. Front office was aggressive this year and will continue to be. They will not be taking a “year off”, as some have at time speculated. He believes the group in that locker room right now is a championship group. (Pete and John not going anywhere)
3. Finding Dion Jordan really softens the blow (although at a slightly different position) of losing Malik. (his future is in the hands of the doctors at this point). Sheldon Richardson was brought in to fill that Malik loss too, as was obvious to us.
4. I do put some stock into which guys he mentions because they come to his mind first. I mean, he can’t come out and say who they plan to bring back and who they plan to move on from, so this is about as close as you will get to a clue.
– Defense “built around Bobby, KJ, and Earl.” (Earl is good at football, not social media… yeah, he said basically that)
– “If we can be fortunate enough to get Sheldon back, that would be huge for us.”
– Not a single mention of Joeckel. All other OL, even Roos, mentioned. He’s gone.
– Outside guys that came in: McDougald, Jordan, Brown, Garvin.
– RBs: Carson, Davis, Prosise, then tossed in McKissic after a couple moments. Bye bye, Rawls.
– He sees the young DBs besides Griffin (Hill, Thompson, Tyson) as a new group that has bonded together and will play a big role in the future and start to compete for playing time.
– I think they basically just lowballed Jimmy from the way he talked about it. Take it or leave it kind of offer for him to consider. This might sound wierd, but it’s like they maybe want to force themselves to move on from depending on him so they can get back to who they want to be pounding the ball. That’s all just my personal take on it.
(RW was also very non-committal on it in his locker room interview. Basically, around 2:30 mark: He’s one of my best friends in the world, and he’s a great guy and played really well, hopefully he can continue to be a Seahawk I would love to…continue his career with him and… do that with him… and there’s a lot of other guys. Hopefully we can match up again and line up again together.)
5. Fixing run game is priority #1. It’s going to be the RB spot more than the OL. I will be surprised if they use their top pick on anything but an RB. Carson will be a big part of it though.
6. Priority #2 will be fixing the penalty issue. He says he has a clear idea of how to go about it and it will begin already in April.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we draft 2 med to late round RB’s vs high round RB in 2018.
If they do that then they run he risk yet again of suffering in terms of talent. You can’t expect To strike gold in the 7th round of FA every time. If you see a guy who makes you better lu take him.
The rose bowl has made me think that Chubb could really be the guy we target after this year. He reminds me more of Lynch than any other running back in this class; him and Michel are both so fun to watch.
Im looking forward to seeing him against ‘bama and the combine could be huge for him
Quick offseason plan based on Greg Bell’s insider info and the end of season press conferences.
Re-sign: McDougald, Sheldon, Maxwell, Garvin
Extend: Earl, Sherm, Brown, Clark/Jordan asap when possible
Walk: Jimmy, Lacy, Rawls, PRich, Joeckel
Cut/trade: Lane, Mike B
Retire: Avril, Kam
FA targets: Kickers
Draft:
*Trade down from 18 to 33 with Cleveland, who decide they want another impact player in R1 instead of picking twice at the top of R2. They send us in exchange their late R2 pick they got from Philly (say it ends up being 58 overall so trade chart value evens out perfectly).
*The top pick of R2 is always an attractive trade chip, and Seattle receives a call overnight after day 1 and, seeing several RB options they like still on the board, trades down again about 10 spots to recoup a R3 pick, with Seattle throwing in its pick at the top of R5 to even out the deal. (don’t know with what team exactly)
R2P43ish- RB Ronald Jones II (fallbacks Damien Harris, Nick Chubb, Sony Michel, Bryce Love)
R2P58- OG (Will Hernandez?) or LB (Lorenzo Carter?)
R3P92ish- CB Derrick Baity, Kentucky (has not declared yet)
R4- FB/TE Jaylen Samuels, NC St.
R5- DE Kentavius Street, NC St.
R5- WR Marcell Ateman, OK St. (fallbacks Javon Wims, DJ Moore)
R7- RB Lavon Coleman, Washington
R7- Kicker (+UDFA competition)
R7- Punter (+UDFA competition)
Thought about taking Rashaan Evans at #33 and the RB at #58. But then you might be getting the leftovers at RB instead of the ones you most want and I’m not sure how many snaps another LB would play anyway in our system right now unless they want to put KJ on a timeshare. Wilhoite played 28.52%, which includes filling in one full game for Bobby, and Garvin 17.76%.
OL would be
Brown/Odhi/Britt/Pocic/Ifedi
with backup and competition from
Fant/Hernandez/Hunt/Roos/Tobin
our linebacker play outside of Bobby and K.J. was downright dismal at times. Wilhoute was another signing that made me scratch my head. We definitely need an infusion of young talent, emphasis on talent.
Does anyone know if kam is interested in coaching? I guess things will become clearer in early February but I have know that it’s serious for both he and Cilff and normally to expect them to play again. But is precisely why he had an injury guarantee in contract… Can’t flat him but hopefully they figure out a less painful way to pay him and preserve cap space. ..he played so hard. Guy has so much character and leadership he’d make an excellent coach. No better HC to learn from than PC.
Sunday was my bday and assisted for griffin got his
His first intercept ion…. no one happier than Earl ….and the other rookie DBs. Love to draft us another Griffin in later rounds at LB.. what a great story. heck of a player.
Heck yeah! And to your comment above i think Kam and Sherman both plan on coaching when they are finished with the NFL
Excuse my typos it submitted before I proofread oops. 😨