Sam Williams could be a surprise R1 pick for Seattle
The Seahawks have developed a reputation for making ‘surprise’ early picks. For the most part they’ve taken players in the range they were expected to go but occasionally they’ve made a selection that has left fans and media gasping.
Jason La Canfora wrote an article a few days ago reflecting on the top-10 picks. Here’s what he wrote about Seattle:
If both of the top quarterbacks are gone by the time the Seahawks pick at 9, several execs told me they believe the odds of a trade down are very high. The Vikings are clearly in the market for a top corner, and jumping up to 9 would likely allow then to secure one of the top two (Gardner or Derek Stingley, Jr), and Seattle at 12 could very likely still land one of the top pass rushers on the board plus keep securing much needed additional draft capital (even after the Russell Wilson trade). It’s a potential draft scenario to keep an eye on.
I don’t believe for a second that the Seahawks are hoping that a quarterback ‘falls’ to them at #9. Thus it brings into doubt the validity of the whole projection from JLC.
However, he’s the second person (after Tony Pauline) touting the likelihood of a trade down.
As noted a few times — I think the Seahawks made the Wilson trade feeling like there was a good chance a pass rusher would be there at #9. However, both Travon Walker and Jermaine Johnson have likely propelled themselves into the top-five.
It’s possible they pivot to a cornerback and selecting Derek Stingley Jr or Sauce Gardner would net them a really good player. We also know, however, that this team hasn’t drafted a cornerback higher than the late third round in the Pete Carroll era.
So when JLC mentions trading down and being in a position to ‘very likely still land one of the top pass rushers on the board’ — what does he mean?
It’s a tricky one to work out. Both George Karlaftis and Boye Mafe are really good players but both had sub-33 inch arms at the combine. Arnold Ebiketie supposedly ran a 1.69 10-yard split at the combine. David Ojabo has a serious injury that will keep him out for the 2022 season.
It’s difficult to look at this group and say definitively — yes, that’s a Seahawks pass rusher.
The player who does fit the bill is Ole Miss’ Sam Williams.
If they trade down and take him in round one it would be a shocking pick. He’s generally being mocked in the second or even third round. However, he has a lot of the things the Seahawks like.
He ran a 4.46 forty and a blistering 1.52 10-yard split at the combine. Those are elite times for a 261lbs pass rusher. He has 33 1/8 inch arms. His pass rush win percentage is 19.5% — higher than Ojabo (19%), Jermaine Johnson (14.2%) and Travon walker (10.8%). He had 12.5 sacks in 2021 — breaking a single-season school record. He needs to get stronger in order to finish better but that’s easily rectifiable.
He also played for Lane and Monte Kiffin. Lane was on Rich Eisen’s show last week and highlighted Williams as a player with immense talent for the NFL if he goes to the right home, with the right kind of guidance.
Given he volunteered Williams’ name in that interview, he’s probably speaking highly of him to coaches. We know Carroll’s spoken to his old friends about Ole Miss’ players.
Williams is a terrific pass rusher with the lean and quickness to trouble pro-tackles. He’s twitchy in the way top-tier sack specialists tend to be.
The Seahawks clearly identified pass rusher as their biggest need this off-season and with respect to Uchenna Nwosu — that situation hasn’t been properly fixed.
It’s possible they wait until #40/#41 and see what remains of the class. It’s equally possible they signed Nwosu because they felt less confident about drafting a pass rusher and now intend to draft a Michael Clemons type later on, while perhaps re-signing Carlos Dunlap down the line.
Not doing anything at offensive tackle also gives a strong indicator they intend to draft one early — which is why we’ve talked a lot about Trevor Penning.
Yet if their intention is to draft a pass rusher first, just keep Williams in your mind. They’ve had a tendency under this regime to zone in on positions and select ‘their guys’. It’s possible Williams is one of ‘their guys’.
I don’t think it’d be the worst pick in the world frankly. He clearly has a lot of talent and would provide the Seahawks with a really dynamic collection of edge rushers. Watch him against one of the most overrated players in the draft (Charles Cross) and see what he does to him. He has him on toast.
Would it be unnecessarily risky and forced though?
This is why I’ve got no problem moving down a few spots and taking, say, Zion Johnson. This is a big rebuild, regardless of what anyone says. Plugging in players with long-term potential to be building blocks who tick every box — character, performance, physical profile, leadership — there’s nothing wrong with that.
I’m totally comfortable coming away with Johnson and Tyler Linderbaum as the first two picks and simply saying — great — we’ve sorted the interior O-line for the next 8-10 years. Now let’s run the ball brilliantly.
I’m also very comfortable drafting a player like Stingley Jr at #9. Why not try and get a blue-chip player at a premium position?
The Seahawks tend to have their ways and means though and there’s no getting away from the fact that Williams — with his testing profile, production, frame and Kiffin-connection — could be the type of player they end up drafting a lot earlier than many think after trading down from #9.
Imagine a scenario like this in the top-eight:
#1 Jacksonville — Aidan Hutchinson (DE, Michigan)
#2 Detroit — Travon Walker (DE, Georgia)
#3 Houston — Evan Neal (G, Alabama)
#4 NY Jets — Jermaine Johnson (DE, Florida State)
#5 NY Giants — Kayvon Thibodeaux (DE, Oregon)
#6 Carolina — Ikem Ekwonu (G, NC State)
#7 NY Giants — Charles Cross (T, Miss. State)
#8 Atlanta — Garrett Wilson (WR, Ohio State)
(Note — I want to keep saying this — if Evan Neal and Ikem Ekwonu come off the board before #6 — I think the Panthers could potentially take Trevor Penning and not Charles Cross. Penning, for me, is a better prospect with far more upside. Certain teams might like Cross based on scheme and fit but he is vastly overrated by the media)
With both of the top cornerbacks on the board, we could see teams like Minnesota and Houston scrambling to move up. There’d also be a potential desperate push to get the second receiver given Garrett Wilson is off the board. The options at offensive tackle are running out too.
This is why Seattle’s #9 pick could be the prime ‘trade down’ spot in this class.
They could comfortably drop into the teens, acquire another day-two pick (and possibly some 2023 stock) then take a pass rusher with the profile they’ve typically sought over the years.
It’d be controversial and I’m not predicting it will happen — more suggesting Williams is a name to monitor. But you have to admit — it’s the kind of thing they’ve done in the past.
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Do you think they could drop down slightly again and take him?
Possibly, yes
As much as I have enjoyed RW for all these years, trading him (at this time) was perfect timing for this team. The combination of so many years with RW and some poor drafting and trades got Seattle into this situation.
That being said, they have ammunition to at least address some of the major holes on the roster all the while on the cheap…..This is the perfect situation. Can they mess it up???..Of course, however…I get the feeling they actually get it that they were being way too cute with their drafts and trades.
Getting pushed around on both sides of the ball is a pretty good wake up call, and both of those areas need the most attention in my eyes.
Speaking of eyes. With all the coaching turnover, those fresh eyes and ideas can only help right the ship, and in fact, make it very hard for them to mess up this super important draft.
All of this is exciting to me, even moreso than the botched re-set.
Slightly unsettling in a way that makes it all seem entirely plausible. More confident that this is the scenario we’ll see playing out than any of the others you’ve put forward, and he’s someone I’ve probably spent about 20 seconds thinking about in my entire life before this piece. All just makes too much sense.
Still, I’d rather get someone twitched up than a plodder like Collier. If you’ve got an even half decent coach (unfortunately not a given in Seattle) you should be able to get a guy like Williams rolling pretty quickly.
I just read something interesting. Dalton Miller recently said that Karl Scott was the greatest defensive coach in College football history. I know that it is just one person’s opinion. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn’t. I know one thing. His hiring was pretty significant.
Who’s Dalton Miller?
If Dalton Miller is all in, count me in too!
DK conspicuously not on that list.
Very, very interesting.
No reason not to be on the same list. Same agent, same situation.
My read on this was possible extension soon.
Yup.
When I first read that story I had no idea they shared an agent. After finding out they did, my first reaction was that DK is getting his extension and that the others aren’t even close to one. Hence their agent telling them to sit out team activities.
If they didn’t share an agent, I m ight not agree. Since they do, I 100% agree. It’s coming.
Have been able to see both sides of the trade/no trade DK fence.
With an extension he’s soon to be one of the few spendy players on the team. Whether it’s this year (hopefully no) or next year a spendy DK with a rookie wage scale QB is pretty easy to understand.
Fingers crossed!! Get it done John!
If I was Samuel. I would hold out too. He is at a greater risk of injury. Last year Samuel average 6.2 yards per carry. He is pretty valueable to the 49er offense. He has to look out for himself.
In regards to Metcalf. He feels pretty confident that he is going to get a big pay day. Either from Seattle. Or in a trade.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/04/18/nfl-draft-gms-picks-trades-fmia-peter-king/?cid=fmiatw
Loads of info from King
One GM opinion:
I think we hear this every year. And every year somebody has to have their guy and moves up.
Lot of people in the league agreeing with what we’ve been saying about the makeup of the top 10
Will this be another year where any major moves are linked to an owner forcing a GM to go get “his guy?”
I feel like you see that more with qb heavy drafts. And Jerry Jones. And the late Al Davis. Just watching team building over the years I get the sense that for every strong GM, souting department there are teams with gms and owners who are kind of lazy and just take in the same garbage mel kiper style info and roll with it.
People that say football front office people know more than someone else (like a fan per se) because they are in that job makes me laugh my ass off. There isn’t a career field in earth where someone is in a prominent position making decisions that shouldn’t be .
I believe the Giants will trade one of those top 7 picks, even if they don’t get full chart value.
Carolina gonna try like hell to trade down too. Whether they do or not remains to be seen. Giants can afford to take less chart value because of having another first to fall back on. Carolina is thin on picks and needs whatever they can get. They may have to swallow hard and take a bit less than value.
Good call on Carolina. Hard to see them staying put. But you never know that Franchise used to be kind of good and us bordering into chaos with the gm and coach not being aligned.
I mentioned this a few weeks ago… but if NYG want a QB next year, we could get the #7 for next year 1st and like a day 3 pick.
It’s a buyers market, and NYG want a QB in 23. I could see them settling, and we move our x2 1st rebuild up a year early.
What, and rally behind our new franchise QB Geno Smith?
That would be utter madness
And further down in that Peter King article was this:
3. I think the most interesting signing of the last week was not Sammy Watkins or even Derek Carr, neither of which is very surprising. I’ll be interested to see the terms of the one-year, “up to $7-million” deal for Geno Smith in Seattle, who has started five games in the last seven years.
Well, the full 7 mil is unlikely but the still grossly overpaid for the guy.
They aren’t paying Smith $3m to be their starter. They’re paying him $3m to push Lock to be their starter. It’s not a bad strategy. Whether it works or not remains to be seen.
That’s $3m more than he’s worth. He’s lucky he didn’t pull a Henry Ruggs and kill somebody. His play isn’t anything better than countless others could provide either. What a trash move to re-sign him.
Based on his measurables/production, seems like Williams is kind of flying under the radar and his stock should be higher. I am assuming the arrest/suspension issue is likely playing a role here. If it weren’t for those off field issues, kind of feels like this guy would be considered a 1st rounder. Or am I missing something else here? Great stuff as always, Rob!
I was thinking the same.
The statement by Rob about Williams really stands out
“Would it be unnecessarily risky and forced though?”
If he has elite speed and has a better win rate than Johnson, Ojabo and walker, why would picking Williams be risky and forced? Is it just based on character and poor decisions? Or is there more to do with tape?
You covered the avenue Hawks takes often in 1st round. Great article.
Yep, and that’s the scary part. Of course once I hear team X was going to take him right after Seattle did, I’ll feel a whole better.
Hope:
Board comes to them. Rule out slight pointless trade downs for fifth rounders and just accept what is in front of them. Maybe slight moves up where they are successful:
1. Stingley
2. Linderbaum with a slight move up
2. Tindall
Fear:
John goes trader john and move down for Williams. Okay sort of.
2. Slight trade down again “feeling,” linderbaum or Jurgens will be there and get knee capped by other teams when both are gone so they draft WR or god forbid Safety.
2. Dameon pierce. A player that is good but now there’s still no oline to run behind.
3. Need a tackle? Max “pocic,” mitchell.
Thomas Booker (DT) is someone to keep on the radar.
Really smart kid (teammates called him a ‘coach on the field’) out of Stanford that popped at 9.81 RAS and has the 33.5 inch arms that the Hawks covet.
https://twitter.com/mathbomb/status/1500461294390063115?lang=en
Oh no… a link to ‘RAS’
Please let’s not go down that road
Specific testing matters at certain positions. Not an ‘overall score’
Interesting idea about Williams. For me it comes down to how far down you could trade and still get him. Trade with the Vikings so they can get sauce or stingley? I think i’d like them to explore trading further down for Williams.
Your podcast with Jeff was awesome. Most interesting bit for me to hear eas that there is often a new coach pick in the draft. But who does that pick(s) get deferred to?
It doesn’t feel to me that Waldron yet has a guy. Or frankly a type. Last year was rinse/repeat of the same offense for many seasons. Is it Hurtt who has told everyone he can that they want to be aggressive on the front? Is it Desai who is apparently a DB minded coach? Or the new Oline coach? Or all of them.
Sam Williams seems seahawky. Is it is criminal misconduct that has him lower on boards or something else?
The only spot that worries me is Seattle’s second round picks. I’m a little concerned that if seattle thinks Linderbaum in the second and he goes late first they might start reeling on their back foot.
Yes, I am concerned if they get too smart or cute, that they will make a bad decision.
The good thing I see in this draft is that the day two choices are absolutely loaded. I keep playing with the mock simulator and there is a ton of really good talent that will last throughout rounds two and three (and a little of four), even if everything does not fall the right way. This is the year for Schneider to acquire as many picks as he can in day two, trading down from 9 and trading up from the day 3 picks.
Take down tge sign that says “always compete,” and replace it with a list of names they moved up for where they did some if their best work.
Trading down for more day 2 picks? Yes probably. Trading up using their day 3 picks? Expensive. They might still love their day 3 picks even though they haven’t been as masterful with them in recent years.
Shock first rounder from Ole Miss? Matt Corral.
If evaluated as a future NFL starter (Jimmy plus) then trade down if JJ’s gone and get him before Washington, Minnesota, Philadelphia, or Pittsburgh do. Better yet get Williams and Corral. I just don’t think a center or guard, even great ones, will change the trajectory of this team as much. Seahawks have two bridge QBs.
Toughness, work ethic, leadership, improvement, coachability, SEC production, elite traits, arm, fundamentals, red zone runner, play action/quick game master. Wanted to come to the SEC and puts his team on his shoulders in big games.
Hints of Aaron Rodgers in college (less accurate but same height, quick release, calm, arm strength). I know, ridiculous opinion right?
Williams 40 time at 261 is absurd. Why isn’t that getting more hype?
Ravens have 7 picks in the third and fourth? I’m always jealous of their drafting. When the Seahawks are frustrating I sometimes contemplate jumping ship and following the Ravens.
I worry about Matt Corral. Who keeps him upright as the line currently is?
A guard and a center gets Seattle back to running it right at teams.
The ravens? Unpopular take. They feel like the better run org but when all is said and done they haven’t been better than the seahawks in as long as both teams have been good but not great.
MC or “Chihuahua” getting dinged up is a valid concern. We were quite spoiled with RW in that regard for the past decade. Can’t expect 10 more years of Ironman QBs.
I think the line wasn’t quite as bad as we thought even though Aaron Donald owned them (he tends to do that to anyone). Russell just wouldn’t get rid of the ball for some reason in some games. When he did get it out quickly, he was amazing. I’m thinking back of a stretch when Doug Baldwin had like 14 TDs and Wilson was throwing quick.
Corral seems like a good point guard in a system that’s not all about him, and he seems happy enough to quick slant and screen you to death. He does step up and make big runs and throws at times. He’s a driven competitor.
I think the PCJS presser after the RW trade was telling. Pete really didn’t want John to say a word about the QB class. But Pete himself had a big grin when asked about a QB in round 1.
We’ll see if the post RW plan involves a high pick this year or next.
The line indicator to me is oddly not sacks but how unremarkable to legitimately concerning the first 2/3rds of last years run game was.
The thing about slants and screens and all that. It won’t ve until week four or so before anyone really knows whether pete or russel was deciding that. I’d love to see a more normalized pass attack. For all the habdwringing about Wilson not throwing over the middle there is rarely any talk about how much pete actually loves back breaking deep shots and it’s been since Baldwin was here that the team has anyone who could remotely be considered a “slot,” reciever. It’s been since Lynch tgat we have had a threat to catch out of the backfield.
I don’t dislike Corral. As it stands ( for me ) when assessing the qb’s in this draft if Stroud, Young, and Levi’s were also in this draft probably none of the qb’s would be higher than third round back-up flier types. That doesn’t change (for me) simply because there isn’t top talent.
Those are fair points. Just from watching his throws in about half the 2021 games, Chris Simms’ and Lane Kiffin’s takes on him, and some of the Ole Miss documentaries, he seems to have much higher upside than that. 5 star out of High School if it matters. Rob has already mentioned most of this.
Although he needs to sit a while, he would be up there with most any prospect on throwing mechanics, footwork, ball handing (minus some ball security issues), accuracy (deep ball needs work a bit), arm strength, and intangibles.
I can just imagine him as part of a balanced run defense oriented team as a humble leader with great competitive toughness and doing his job well, with a style of play and interviewing that’s endearing to teammates and fans.
Pete loves 5 star recruits. It’s always a consideration when looking at picks.
Well I mean what kind of talent did Matt Chihuahua have around him at Ole Miss while they were winning 10 games, 6-2 in SEC and he was in early Heisman consideration? He showed he could at least make plays against Alabama even though they got blown out.
One thing from watching Alabama as Rob has said…number 31 is insane. Will Anderson. His ability to move laterally on that free runner play looked like a freakin cyborg.
It seems he was 4 star not 5. My bad.
Watch the ole miss v. Bama game in 2020. Wasn’t a blow out and will Anderson looked a fool a couple times trying to sack Corral.
Thanks I will. I can imagine years of cat and mouse games between Anderson and Corral in the pros.
There is a concept in business/marketing called “blue water”: when everyone is competing like sharks and the water is bloody red, go over to the blue water. That is very Seahawky. They tend to go after the guys others are not fighting over by trading down or by drafting them earlier.
They can also overthink and be enamored with this, resulting in not taking the great pick at #9.
if none of the pass rushers or corners are available at 9 I would prefer a trade down.
I dont think Seahawks draft a corner as much I want the most impact player available at 9
if they can trade a few spots down and draft a o-lineman like a Zion or LB Devin Lloyd and with that extra pick use for a RB or fill a roster spot I think it may have to be quantity over quality
whoever is at the 9th overall has so much pressure. almost undue pressure that they need to be an immediate impact
unsure if that’s realistic for whoever is selected
my hope is these next 2 draft seasons are the major building blocks of the Seahawks identity
JS/PC cant swing and miss on this draft
from the picks they have I suspect they will trade down to have up to 10 selections. With that 10 I am hoping for 4 to 6 roster players and hope for 1 pro bowl type
Dalton writes for NFL Profootball Network. He was doing a Mock draft. I will see if I can find the article.
Hey Rob, I’m curious what you think about possibly drafting Zion Johnson to play Right tackle? I have been debating the idea of using our first 3 picks on Zion Johnson (after trading down), Linderbaum/Jurgens and Cole Strange. Like you say, this would really help us run the ball effectively.
Then we can target guys like Sam Williams, Bonitto, Mafe, Michael Clemons, Tindall, Andersen, Chenal Taylor Britt, Mathis etc. with our next picks if they are still available.
I’d prefer to keep Zion at left guard
Good to know. In that case, I think I would like to see us pick Abe Lucas to play Right Tackle. Cole Strange at LG (although you have him listed at Center on your board) and Linderbaum at C. This way we pick up a few day 2 picks trading all the way down to mid-late 20s, so we can still get an impact Edge, LB, CB in day 2.
I would be very disappointed if Sam Williams is Seattle’s answer for the pass rush problem.
When I watch his tape, I see an undisciplined, loose player who wastes a lot of movement, and when he does get to the QB, it’s because of a team effort, not him individually. I don’t see a stand alone pass rusher at all. I like his effort, but I don’t think he’s worthy of a first round grade, notwithstanding his athleticism.
Sorry but I sincerely hope you’re wrong on this.
It’s not a prediction
Indeed, my bad.
I was going to ask about his tape as well – Rob specifically mentions when he went against Cross and looked good. I only watched one Ole Miss game this past year and that was the bowl game against Baylor. Williams was just “okay” in that one and wasn’t really a difference maker. He did have some pressures and played okay, just wasn’t what I was hoping to see from him. How was his tape otherwise? If he had a high pressure percentage and 12.5 sacks, those are really good numbers…
I also remember that Corral got hurt early in that game and was thinking how fragile he was going to be at the next level!
And my lasting impression of that bowl game was that both the Baylor safeties were really good – J. Pitre and JT Woods.
If only we didn’t have a kajillion dollars tied up at safety in a draft that has about half a dozen who could be very good at the next level.
A third of his 12.5 sacks came against Austin Peay and Liberty (2 in each game), perhaps not coincidentally, the two least competitive teams Ole Miss played last year.
He also embarrassed Charles Cross FWIW
But we’ve been going on about how Cross ain’t all that, so…
He still embarrassed someone a lot of people harp on about as a top-10 pick
Listened to someone’s mock today, doesn’t matter who, and they had Cross to Seattle at 9 and no other tackles had been drafted. I turned it off at that point.
The right call was made to turn it off
Why is it that these so called “experts” always put together these mock drafts and are so far off? Do they just copy each others opinions? I constantly see mocks having us pass up not only Jermaine Johnson or Stingley, etc., for players like Willis or Cross and I just don’t get it. We’re lucky to have you, Rob. Not sure why you’re not one of the “experts” as you’re always far more accurate than those that carry the title. Thanks
Appreciate it
Sam Williams definitely has the traits they look for. But like Devonte Wyatt, he has major character concerns.
“Williams’ character issues are well known, and WalterFootball.com reported months ago that they pushed the talented Williams out of first-round consideration even though he has a good skill set to go along with production. The character concerns, however, are even more concerning than that, with one director of player personnel calling Williams “Greg Hardy 2.0.” Sources from multiple teams said Williams’ character issues are so bad, he could go undrafted.”
https://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Character-Concerns-Hurt-Sam-Williams,-Kemore-Gamble,-Smoke-Monday
Though the Seahawks have taken chances on character concern guys, I don’t think they’d pull the trigger on someone deemed Greg Hardy 2.0
Greg Hardy seems like a pretty extreme comparison
On Wyatt.
“Major character concerns,” is overstating it. If you read the report of the incident it was an argument where neither party feared for their safety. Three misdemeanor charges.
Do I condone yelling and carrying on when arguing with your girlfriend. Hell no. He was arrested because most states do arrest the offending party as a preventative action for further conflict.
I don’t want to excuse things but what Wyatt did (wrongly) seems not different from Sherman losing his bleep on camera.
Major character concerns to me is tyreek hill, clark, mixon, etc.
Second chances and all… this is the same front office that drafted Frank Clark.
And like Clark, I could see the Seahawks waiting until R2 to snatch him up. If that’s the plan, and it seems likely he’ll be there at 41/42, they might be more willing to take Sauce/Stingley, or trade down and address the OL with Zion, Penning, Lucas, Linderbaum, or Strange with their other 2 picks.
Would anyone be disappointed with Zion/Linderbaum/Williams and some extra stock on Day 2/3 to address LB and RB? To me that seems like the ideal scenario.
Frank Clark was a great pick. He’s been an excellent professional athlete.
The character issues haven’t entire disappeared, what with the two gun charges (the freaking UZI was the eye opener).
I think the Hawks are going to take Charles Cross. The last time they started a rebuild, they took Okung. I think they’ll see Cross as their LT start to this rebuild. They also literally have nothing at LT. Not even a hedge. It’s their biggest hole – by far!
Okung
6’5”
307 lbs.
36” arms
10.5” hands
Cross
6’5”
310 lbs.
34.5” arms
10 3/4” hands
Do I “like” this pick – no. But, I think it’s what the Hawks will do if the top DEs and Willis are off the board.
Charles Cross is nothing like Russell Okung
The Seahawks are not drafting a non-explosive tackle without great size or traits who didn’t run block in college
Body wise, they actually do. Testing wise they don’t. They’d be wise to pass on OL and wait til later in the draft.
They are not similar in terms of body size
Okung had freakishly long arms. Far longer than Cross. He had a perfect tackle frame in terms of proportions. Cross looks slightly undersized and much more compact
One other thing about Okung. At the combine, he put up 38 reps on the bench press with 36″ arms. Cross did 20 at his pro day (he did improve his vert from 26 to 30″). If Okung was in this draft, he’d likely be the number 1 tackle. For me, number 2, because I think Ekwonu has talent just below Trent Williams and Duane Brown. I know, Rob, he’s a guard. And Trent Williams only put up 23 reps and Brown 24 with 34″ arms, so….
There’s a lot that isn’t easily quantified with offensive lineman. When I watch Cross’ highlights, I see great feet, balance, hands, position / pocket awareness, and pickup of stunts and blitzes. Probably better than any of the other 1rd OT in this draft. Things you can’t test for. Against SEC competition. I can see why he is rated as highly as he is. Sort of the anti-Penning.
The Seahawks seem to favor old-school, downhill line play, but if you’re a team that is looking to throw the ball, I see Cross’ appeal. The NFL is a passing league. Like Brandon Staley says, it takes a lot of 5yd runs to add up to a 40yd pass.
One other item worth noting that I believe skews analysts’ rankings. Ekwonu, Neal, Cross, and Smith are all 21 years old and are likely projected to develop physically.
Not sure what you’re seeing with Cross to make you think that
Look at his base. It’s so narrow. He gets himself into some really unbalanced positions because his kick slide and positioning/footwork needs reworking. I would bull rush him every snap at the next level playing like this. The scheme in college helps him out of course because it’s a quick pass every time. He has to change at the next level or he will get pummelled.
And that’s a crap quote from Staley. Makes it seem like you can just choose to throw a 40 yard pass. Wish it was that easy.
Staley is a defensive coach that runs a version of Fangio’s scheme. The nature of the quote is a simple one (read the Athletic article). Defensively, you can give up a lot of shorter running or passing plays and still recover by getting a stop or a turnover. It’s hard for an offense to string together a lot of short plays without screwing up. Give up a 40-yd pass and they’ve flipped the field or worse. This is the approach the Rams used to rout the Seahawks in the first round of the playoffs. The Seahawks couldn’t consistently execute runs or short to intermediate passes, and LA shut down the deep ball. Not unlike the bend but don’t break we’ve seen from Carroll over the years. The league is increasingly reliant on explosive passing plays and there are fewer teams out there running a West Coast Offense style controlled passing game well.
I agree on the bull rush. Cross is weak. I think it’s a projection that he gets stronger with age and a pro training regimen. Still, he looked pretty good against A&M and Alabama. I’m not a Cross fan, I’m just trying to understand why many regard him as a top pick. I can see the good points. I can also see Ekwonu flopping because of his unrefined technique.
The quote as you wrote it, was rubbish.
If there’s more context then provide it.
Otherwise like I said — it’s rubbish. If it was as easy as choosing a 40 yard completion then everyone would
Are we just not going to talk about Sam Williams sexual assault charge and suspension at Ole Miss? There are a lot of edge rushers with upside in this draft, major off field red flags should bump Williams down the list behind Ebiketie, Mafe, Ojabo etc.
Seems like they’ve tried to stay with high character guys since the Malik debacle and Jarran Reed’s suspension.
I would take mafe cause I think he has higher upside and no issues to report.
Yes we have talked about it already. And the charge was dropped.
None of us have any information other than the charge being dropped. Teams can do homework and investigations that we cannot. I will not assign guilt to someone who had the charges dropped.
The piece has already addressed this. Ebiketie ran a 1.69 10-yard split. Mafe has short arms. Ojabo is injured.
None of them have Williams’ upside and none fit Seattle in the same way.
Except they’ve just re-signed Geno Smith with a DUI charge hanging over him, flirted greatly with Antonio Brown during the 2020 season and were reportedly in the early mix for Deshaun Watson.
Sadly, the talent of Watson probably would turn Pete’s head but the hinted Antonio Brown interest was most likely gaslighting Russ let’s be honest. Geno isn’t a big investment and it’s not sexual assault. A first round investment is a totally different animal, the guy needs to be a star on the field and a solid citizen off of it.. and why would Ojabo’s injury be a knock with where this roster is at? It’s not about this season, if they were a playoff team or anywhere close then yeah but if you can land a talent like Ojabo later than he’d be available had he not been injured, it’s a boon. They just did the same thing with Darrell Taylor.
Firstly, please don’t use the word ‘gaslighting’. It’s one of those really stupid words that people use too often these days.
But no, I don’t think Carroll subjected himself to a really uncomfortable press conference over signing Brown — as was reported to be imminent — because he was playing a mid-season game against his own QB.
Ah, so it’s OK if it’s only a DUI.
Like Micah Parsons, right?
I don’t know why people keep saying this. It’s a massive issue. You are drafting players to create a new core. How the heck are you creating and building if you use a high pick on someone who won’t even be on the practise field until 2023?
And what if he never makes a true, full recovery? What a way to launch a rebuild, with a wasted pick.
Let me also repeat something that you seem to have missed out. The charges were dropped against Sam Williams. Maybe you’re a private investigator who knows more about the case than me. But as I said before, I’m not assigning guilt to someone for dropped charges when I don’t have the capacity, like NFL teams, to do a full and thorough investigation.
Let’s please move on now.
Since Rob wrote this piece on seahawks doing seahawks things i still wonder if Jordan Davis is a weird pick pete would love.
Pete loves himself a freaky athlete. And he 1000% fits the old “getting off the bus test.” I think his best fit to truly dominate is the Chargers. But…..if Seattle is really going 3-4 part of me could see pete grinning like the cheshire cat staring up at Davis on the sidelines.
The Seahawks have never spent big resources on huge defensive tackles though
And they’ve added Woods to Mone already. Plus you don’t launch a rebuild with a two-gapping nose of the future.
Look, I like Davis as much as anyone. But people thinking this is possible are going to be disappointed.
I don’t want this to happen.
1. Pete rather delusionally doesn’t think this is a rebuild.
2. I like woods and mone. I also have stated I don’t think there’s more than about four players that they shouldn’t be looking at their replacement over the next two years.
This was a guess to nothing based on years of watching pete nearly fawn over special players.
Peter, your 1st Point is so important and spot on. I’m okay if Pete use that statement for press conference but internally he should know that it is rebuild and will take good 2 years in draft and free agency to be competitor. Otherwise Pete will make bone headed decision. I want to see John making decision on players and strongly rejects Pete over enthusiastic wish,
We are about to find out if Pete really believes his own bullshit about this not being a rebuild or not. My vote, he sincerely thinks it isn’t and those “bone-headed” decisions are forthcoming.
Please football gods, let me be wrong about this.
I fear Pete believes it all, including that we’ll again have a strong defense and vibrant running game. All the hot air emerging from Pete may be the biggest factor behind global warming, Big Mike.
If the team viewed Davis as a 3T. I think the team has shown they will pour resources into a DT that can play run and pass. McDowell and S. Richardson are some examples.
I don’t think the team views Davis as such and I don’t think they will target him early.
I don’t know how anyone can view him as a 3T
Right. That’s why I just can’t see the team doing that. You’ve talked about it. The Chargers don’t have many needs and can afford to draft a nose tackle in the first.
Pete and crew will be intrigued for sure but I just can’t see it. I hope I’m not wrong.
Most folks have the Chargers going OT in round 1 including Rob. I disagree and think they’re salivating over getting a shot at Davis cuz their run D was so abysmal last year.
I’m with you. Afc west arms race. Davis with the chargers…… could be fun.
Rob: Miller was projecting Alabama CB Jalyn Armour-Davis to the Cincinati Bengals with the 63rd pick. Here is the exact quote. “Jalyn Armour-Davis spent four years learning how to play in the secondary from arguably the best defensive backs coach in football history.”
Here is the link: https://www.profootballnetwork.com/3-round-2022-nfl-mock-draft-two-qbs-go-top-10-offensive-tackles-slip-in-round-1/4/ Swipe down to the Bengals 2nd round pick. 63rd overall.
He’s talking about Nick Saban
My bad. No doubt Karl Scott did learn a TON from Nick Saban.
Speaking of coaching… I have the feeling that they’ll take a flier on Kaylon Barnes. You can teach technique, but not speed.
*Kalon
Albert Breer:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/04/18/mmqb-desmond-ridder-sam-howell-draft-prospects
Reaffirming my suspicions that trading down will be more difficult and garner less in return and should not be forced this go around. Too many teams want to trade down into the sweet spot in this deeper draft – better value in draft capitol and contract costs.
Don’t trade just to trade and end up with later picks in the draft that aren’t going to be excellent players. Get the good players when they are there for you.
Shit-post surprise pick: Kyle Hamilton .
Hamilton slips to #9 because he’s a box safety, and Desai gets his guy.
Hawks walk out in a base 4-2-5 “with 3-3-5 principles” (whatever that means).
Ugh the more I think about it, the more I believe the hawks will actually do it, and the more i actually like the idea.
Someone talk some sense into me lol.
Username checks out in this case.
I know it’s the same guys who constructed one of the best teams in NFL history but for far too long it’s been too many misses, too many “we’re smarter than everyone” picks. Too many need picks instead of BPA. I’m super nervous about this draft. They need to get this right. With that being said this is the first time in a while I’m actually anxious and excited about whats to come. So much talent, if JJ isn’t there I’m all for trading down and snagging a Zion or a Wyatt. Someone like that. I just don’t want to see them reach for players who could have been had way later. Time to figure that out and adjust to the change. Sorry for the rant. Just haven’t gotten to speak my peace on it in a while on it and as we get closer the more anxious I get.
Time for you two to get back on a podcast. A state of the union style.
We have got plans for the draft — maybe a stream beforehand too
I share all of your concerns Robbie and until they prove to me otherwise, I think they screw this up and next year’s too and we are in fan purgatory until they’re FINALLY fired when their contracts run out cuz the cheap assed owner won’t want to spend any more of PAUL’S money (NOT hers) than necessary. Maybe then we’ll get lucky and a new owner hires the right GM and HC and a true ground up rebuild begins. And maybe it’ll take years for that to happen. I would gladly love to be wrong.
Looking forward as always to you guys’ next live stream.
Latest mock at the Athletic from Diante Lee? has the Seahawks trading back twice, then picking at 16 and taking Jermaine Johnson. Seems a few of the writers there feel Johnson isn’t a “premier” pass rusher, but is a really good over all player. Says this about the pick:
Seattle doesn’t leave the first round with a high-profile player, but Jermaine Johnson and mid-round draft capital allow John Schneider to transition the roster into a new era post-Russell Wilson. Johnson, behind Walker, is one of the best run defenders in the draft, and he steps in as a pro-ready pass rusher, even if his ceiling isn’t as high as the top-tier edge defenders.
There’s more chance of Jermaine Johnson winning the world yodelling championships than lasting to #16
I heard he was good at yodelling. So you’re saying there’s a chance!
I’m just here as the token non-Rob
Is if fair to expect the change in how we draft/strategy this year?
Parameters
1) New defense coaches plus different scheme 4-3
2) Building new offense, new QB,
3) No pressure to win now
4) High pick and more number of picks
5) Needs in all but WR which can change if DK is traded.
I too am interested to see if or how the recent changes will impact the draft strategy. It certainly did not seem to affect their approach to free agency. I’m still not clear how significant the schematic changes will be, or how much influence the new hires will have. I guess I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer to the above is “little to none”.
I mean this is the hope right? Otherwise, it’ll likely be more of the same as Robbie outlined above.
As Hawk Finn said tho “It certainly did not seem to affect their approach to free agency.” That fact does not fill me with hope.
Thanks Big Mike and Hawk Finn to deflate my hopes. It’s good thing, no disappointment.
Happy to help, bud.
Yep, just like on MadTV, life is easier with “Lowered Expectations”.
https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-23-2017/r9zyC1.gif
🤣
I too share these as hopeful reasons as to why they might draft differently/better this year. But reason doesn’t always seem to follow suit with Pete and John so I guess we’ll just have to see what happens.
A couple of the more prominent fears : they still believe their way is the way(two Superbowls and a bunch of ‘winning’ seasons to back their hubris up) along with feeling pressure to win now from ownership after a first bad season and an after a season’s end meeting which not a soul said a word about what transpired.
If Carolina is looking to trade down, they will be able to do it again from #9 and get a couple mid round picks in the process. So if your guy is there at 6, make a deal with them. We have the connection with Fitterer and if that’s what it takes to get a top pass rusher, why not? At least you don’t have the excuse of not being able to get a top 10 pick.
I agree 💯. We have the draft stock to do it. The response before was “too expensive” but I’m not so sure that’s true
If carolina is looking to move down a three and a four could do it.
Keeping those seconds is super important to me.
Agreed.
A week ago I would have though this was stupid, as I was all about trading back.
But in this draft, where picks 5-11 are all also considering trading back, it’ll be a buyers market.
Throw the draft value book out the window. We can probably move up 3 spaces for a day 3 pick.
This is a very deep draft. The Hawks need to build the nucleus of the next good team.
There is pretty wide consensus that the best part of this draft is depth of talent. They need more picks, not less.
At some point, you also need great players. Trading down for a bunch of good players doesn’t necessarily separate you from anyone else. Elite talent could. Yes, I’d rather come out of the first two rounds with Jermaine Johnson or Stingley and one of Tindall/Lucas/Mafe/Lindebaum/et al. than three of the second group. I think the disparity in talent justifies it.
Jerry,
I agree with you, however I’m worried there won’t actually be a buyer for the #9 pick.
If there is a trading a partner, take it. But what team will actually want to trade up to #9 (what Rob has described as “no man’s land” )?
I’ve actually called 9 a potential prime trading spot recently, given the way things might shape up
I know the Seahawks like Barton a lot and want to give him a shot, but I do wonder if we could see two LB’s drafted again this year? There are so many good ones in this draft! If they do trade back, I wouldn’t mind seeing them double up on LB & CB in the mid rounds this year…
Would trading back a bit and taking Lloyd and then drafting Tindall be a bit redundant?
I would think either Lloyd or Tindall and then a thumper like Chenal or Mike Rose later in the draft.
Rose is a ST standout to boot, isn’t he?
Not sure about ST for Rose, but most likely any later round player should be able to play on ST…
I thought Tindall was described as a more traditional 4-3 olb, while Lloyd is more of an inside linebacker that could move to EDGE on passing downs. But I often conflate things. My wife is constantly on me about my conflatulance.
I think both Lloyd and Tindall are pretty versatile players, but I think what Rob had said in his write up with Lloyd that he could be a Bobby replacement and then stay on the field on 3rd down to be a pass rusher. He’s not a liability in coverage either…
Tindall is more of a sideline-to-sideline LB that can cover and hunt down ball carriers. He was just a beast last season!
If the value is there, I wouldn’t hate it.
Do they like Barton a lot? I know Pete-speak and all, but what’s that worth in the end?
I guess we’ll find out on draft day.
But for me, in this draft, with this LB class, and a shift to a 4 LB core, and only 2 starting cliber LBs on the roster (sorry Barton but you’re not one of them), I’d double dip.
And I’d make sure at least one is Tindall. I want the LB version of ET3 in this new Seahawks defense. His ability to cover sideline to sideline would enable the DC to hide so much because you can align him just about anywhere and he’s still going to influence/impact a play even if it goes to the opposite side of the field.
And again, for me, the other I’d target is Chenal. He’s also pretty unique in his ability to control the box at and behind the LOS. He’s an exceptional interior blitzer, not to mention a tone-setting thumper.
I think those two LBs on this roster could transform the defense in the way that Sherm and Thomas did for the LOB.
FWIW, I’m also pretty high on Troy Anderson. Man what an athlete! But I think he’s much more raw than either Tindall or Chenal, so he might not have the same first year impact. But I think he could be something special down the road.
I would be stoked if they drafted both Chenal & Tindall – those two could really be impactful players in the NFL!
If you haven’t already, go watch a little tape of Mike Rose and Jeremiah Gemmel. Those are a couple of really good LB’s that will be available a little later. There are just so many good players in this draft!
Another late round/UDFA is LB Kuony Deng from Cal. Before Covid he was being projected as a day 2 pick. Then Covid and injuries and now he is not on anyone’s radar. He’s healthy now and wanted to get an invite to the Combine but it didn’t happen. Could offer some real value late and I think there will be others with a similar story…
Lookout for a trade w/ Kansas City, as it makes sense for both teams. I noticed with the draft choice trade value charts that KC’s 29 & 30 pick value works out fairly close to the Seahawks #9. It is a slight premium for Seattle, but might be worth it for KC. How often does a team of KC’s caliber have the opportunity to move up and take an impact player towards the top of the draft, and they still have multiple picks in the 2nd & 3rd rounds. They need a WR, and this would jump them ahead of WR hungry NJY. For Seattle, it gives them picks 29,30 40 & 41, or in other words – the ammunition and flexibility to move up and down the first few rounds to take picks where they see value. Example, Package 30 & 41 to move back up to 14 or 15. Or package 3rd round pick with 30 to jump up to 24 or so, and then trade 41 further down the second round.
They’re not moving down that far
I could see them moving from 40 to 30 with KC but not 9 to 29.
Rob – thanks, as always, for the great insight and discussion. What about a scenario, where QBs are taken in the first 10 picks? While I agree with your assessment (what do I know?), this draft doesn’t really have 1st round QB talent. History suggests that teams consistently reach for QBs.
So, if this happens again, and the top pass rushers fall accordingly, couldn’t the Seahawks trade down per JLC? Not because they want a QB in round 1, but because others do. Thanks again.
I’d be shocked if people trade up for QB’s in the top-10 this year
The inability to either draft, develop, or keep premier talent is why the Seahawks are where they are at present. In the scenario Rob presents here, a team should race to the podium with ‘Derek Stingley’ on the draft card, but that is almost certainly what Pete/JS will NOT do. Too smart, too cute, too schematically advanced.
JS complains that they never get to draft high enough to take the elite players as a means of deflecting criticism. Pete’s befuddled at how his Raiders castoffs don’t perform well in game. Both, however, claim to have the makings of a Super Bowl team already on the roster, even with Russ in Denver. Whether you paint that as delusional, dishonest, or just too much kool-aid, it doesn’t matter – it’s just blind to reality. They have an opportunity here to begin the process of changing that, but it seems increasingly unlikely.
Would I be upset with taking Williams somewhere between 15-23? Not really, he’s likely going to be a good player and it’s far from the worst thing that can happen with Pete/JS. There are too many super disaster scenarios to get into, but they are quite capable of thinking themselves right into the worst possible outcome and claiming tremendous success – “the guy we wanted.”
I fear a continuation of the past half-decade more than anything else and the first pick will speak volumes about how Pete/JS view their methods and this team. I’m not overly optimistic.
Maybe a new regime next season will have the opportunity and common sense to take this guy:
Josh Pate@LateKickJosh
Will Anderson could face charges for what he’s doing to Bama’s OL today
12:34 PM · Apr 16, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
Bama Spring game? Those are NFL level o-linemen he’s going against too.
Great post Gross. Agree with everything you said except even if team Petey and Johnny screw this up, they ain’t gettin’ fired. She won’t do it and have to pay them to not be in their jobs. I believe it’s all bottom line for her meaning the franchise bottoms out before she sells. Carroll and Schneider gonna get the chance to do it all over again next year.
Keep hope alive.
Excellent post very well said! We have to many examples of Pete/John selecting players 1-2 rounds before they should be selected, and then stating that’s who they wanted all along in order to save face!
Don’t forget their old trick of telling us all that they’re certain (heard it even) that another team was going to take him, so they had to pick him early.
This team needs top talent and not a bunch of middling players. I understand they like to have more picks so you get more chances to find star players, but going full quantity over quality mode hasn’t worked well. Let’s find some star players, and I don’t care if it’s a CB, Edge, OL, whatever!
Wanna see a haul go to PFN sim and get Jets 10/38, then trade down out the 1st or down to bottom of 1st with both picking up as many 2/3’s as you can, lol…
SEA
23.
Trent McDuffie
CB Washington
trade icon
SEA
38.
Devonte Wyatt
DT Georgia
trade icon
SEA
40.
Breece Hall
RB Iowa State
SEA
41.
Desmond Ridder
QB Cincinnati
SEA
43.
Boye Mafe
EDGE Minnesota
trade icon
SEA
46.
Alec Pierce
WR Cincinnati
trade icon
SEA
55.
Abraham Lucas
OT Washington State
trade icon
SEA
58.
Cameron Jurgens
OC Nebraska
trade icon
SEA
67.
Nick Cross
S Maryland
trade icon
SEA
72.
Cole Strange
OG Chattanooga
SEA
74.
Sam Williams
EDGE Mississippi
trade icon
SEA
82.
Channing Tindall
LB Georgia
trade icon
SEA
109.
Damarri Mathis
CB Pittsburgh
SEA
152.
Kevin Austin
WR Notre Dame
SEA
153.
Zamir White
RB Georgia
SEA
229.
Jack Coan
QB Notre Dame
2023 ATL 2nd
2023 NYJ 5th
Aaron Wilson: University of North Carolina running back Ty Chandler is visiting the Seattle Seahawks and San Francisco 49ers, according to a league source.
https://twitter.com/AaronWilson_NFL/status/1516106935875088387
Justin Melo: Ohio State OL Thayer Munford had a Top 30 visit with the #Raiders. Munford also met with the #Broncos, #Seahawks and #Giants virtually, to name a few.
Lots of interest in a highly experienced, versatile OL. Munford started 45 games for @OhioStateFB at multiple positions.
https://twitter.com/JustinM_NFL/status/1516117632151400451?s=20&t=fA9Jsdw-G37nyGRTsEImyQ
Added both, thanks.
We now are up to 21 known VMAC visitors.
Seahawks visits/meeting/interest Tracker
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J3d023YdKp9MFv7OQTy0YTssJ65qLd_aB0UJFGVHxPY/edit?usp=sharing
I just shutter what San Fran can do with RBs…Ones with speed scares me the most. Mostert when he was healthy was a TD just waiting to happen.
Just did this draft on the PFN Sim and feel like this could be at least somewhat realistic! Not the the Seahawks would actually do it, just that most of these players could be available where I picked them…and I’d be very happy with this draft as well! Couple trade backs and added two picks to get to 10 total…
9. Derek Stingley Jr., CB LSU
44. Cameron Jurgens, OC Nebraska
54. Channing Tindall, LB Georgia
72. Nik Bonitto, EDGE Oklahoma
99. Dameon Pierce, RB Florida
127. Braxton Jones, OT Southern Utah
152. Mike Rose, LB Iowa State
153. Jaylen Watson, CB Washington State
200. Kalia Davis, DT UCF
229. Dareke Young, WR Lenoir-Rhyne
I really don’t see Jermaine Johnson as a top five pick. I think he very, very likely lasts until 8 and Atlanta takes him. If he goes much higher than 7 I’d be surprised.
Be prepared to be surprised
Can you elaborate why? I’ve heard other people in media say that as well — some outside of the top 10.
Oof! That’s a spicy meatball. I’m not opposed to Stingley or Gardner at #9 (or post trade). The 5th year of control for CBs is approaching the same level of importance as for QBs.
Doesn’t this make only 5 players now in CLE that will account for about 50% of their cap?
DK and the WR crews agent – he’s raking.
I think it is a waste of resources to pay a WR $25 mil /yr with this roster needing a complete rebuild but DK has done everything right from day #1 when the Hawks drafted him. Performed in the field and by all accounts is a good team mate. Avoiding the holdout distraction is just the latest example.
Seems to me with the trade talk dying down that he and the Hawks plan to get a deal done after the draft that will make him a core building block going forward and if they do it would be hard to argue that it is not a good move.
I think I would still rather trade him if we could get 10 and 38. Could trade 10 for say 16/17 and have 2 firsts, 3 seconds and 2 thirds. Thats a serious roster build and you would still have 2 firsts and 2 seconds next year.
Hey everyone,
Long time reader and I seldom post but I had to comment on this after listening to Robs latest Podcast.
It is my opinion that Rob would be a superior GM to JS and it’s not even close.
Of course i want the Hawks to crush the draft but what i want and what history shows are two different things.
If JS has a bad draft (AGAIN), is there any chance of him being fired before next years free agency and draft seasons are here?
Free agency is a joke the way the Hawks utilize it.
If Rob was the GM our roster would be loaded!!!
How can a professional GM with a team of scouts and earning in excess of $ONE million a year combined be so bad and continually get beat year after year by a man from England?
It’s not just the draft but the entire organization from Free Agency to Roster building.
In JS to too cute with his draft decisions? Is JS a good roster builder?
Fletcher Cox. We could have drafted him in 2012 but instead we traded down to choose Bruce Irvin and with the extra pick we chose Jeremy Lane. 2012 will always be JS best draft yet he bombed on his first pick. Sorry folks, Irvin did not even get a 2nd contract and Fletcher Cox will likely be going to the hall of fame.
Rob, we are so blessed to have you and thank you for everything you do here!!!!!!
Go Hawks!
A ton of us wonder about this over the last few years.
I just want to come out and say I don’t see why so many on this site are either thinking or hoping we draft a RB earlier than round 4 or 5.
We paid solid money to Carson and Penny, we chose them both in free agency and like it or not they should be who we roll with this season. It makes little sense to draft a RB high this year because they already have the guys they wanted on our roster. I’d also add that RB’s are the most plug and play draftees in all of football so why take one high during the beginning year of a big rebuild? Plus they have the shortest careers due to mileage so imo we should take a new higher drafted RB last of all especially if we already have a bunch of resources tied up with not just one but two supposed starters already on the roster.
And injury concerns are no excuse. They knew the injury concerns for both of the players and still ponied up the contracts – to spend good money on two supposed starting RB’s and immediately turn around and draft a RB with a higher draft pick while citing the injury concerns to the other two would be absolute insanity and yet another fireable causation due to the sheer stupidity of it all.
I don’t care how much money they are paying Carson. It was a mistake given his track record, and it’s time to move on. In addition, he had a serious neck injury so no one really knows if he would even be able to continue. Not replacing that because he already gets a lot of money would be pretty short sighted and lead to having Travis Homer or Deejay Dallas as your lead back. And if the Seahawks want to run the ball, that’s a lot of wear and tear on the RBs so they better have a handful that can be counted on.
You’re making your argument on just half the equation, Penny was signed this off season to be a starting RB for us.
And to say ‘ I don’t care how much they are paying Carson, it was a mistake’ etc – goes right to my point – so you’re okay with writing of the mistake of Carson, the mistake of risking Penny will be healthy for a season, and you want to double down on all the above mistakes by dumping a high draft pick onto the dumpster fire of mistakes to fix them?? Imo piling another reactionary mistake on top of all the others is a terrible way to operate.
Add in my arguments for not taking a RB in the first year of a big rebuild and I just don’t see how you can sensibly push the I don’t care envelope and waste another high draft pick on the negligence of prior free agent signings Carson and Penny.
Carson might not even play this year so you’d e left with penny and JAGs.
So draft a 4th or 5th rounder in a deep draft who could share some of the load with Penny.
Why dump a high draft pick on a RB after recently paying out two starting contracts when we have so many needs at premium positions like tackles, corner backs and defensive ends/rush linebackers? Those positions command higher draft pick usage. And those positions take longer to acclimate to NFL play and therefore should be taken earlier during a big rebuild than (what should be) a plug and play early draft RB.
You seem to be ignoring the bit where people have addressed the importance of the running game in Seattle’s scheme, Carson’s possible retirement and Penny’s injury history and contract status.
I’ll add in that when the Seahawks have relied on ‘late round picks’ and cheap pickups the running game has been a horror show and it has cost a team that sets out to run the ball.
They need quality at the position, simple as that.
They need quality AND health, the greatest ability being availability and all.
I’d rather take a risk with Carson and Penny and drafting a 4th or 5th round RB to help out than have a horror show at our tackle positions or at corner back or at DE – because we’ve seen the horror shows at all of those positions over the past few (and with the o-line longer) years resulting in a hall of fame quarterback forcing his way out, defenses that were historically bad for large portions of seasons and so forth so yes put me squarely on record for wanting to choose premium positions with higher draft picks over tripling down on terrible free agency mistakes by spending high draft capitol to try and fix the running back position for a coach who wants to run and play Pete ball in a modern passing NFL.
I cringe remembering how bad our pass rush has looked for large portions of recent seasons. The same could be said for our cornerback play.
Wilson said precious little specifically except to point out all the hits he had taken and basically call out years bad pass blocking from his o-line. He both forced his way out and quite probably had the athleticism beaten out of him before it should have been because of poor o-line play and a front office that had been all about run blocking. But let’s put a running game above a hall of fame qb and above spending high draft picks on premium positions we so dearly need filled.
And again.
You’re assuming you can fill those holes at OT/DE etc in round two or three.
You’re falling into the trap of discussing positions not players.
If a great OT or DE was available… nobody would pick a RB instead.
If the next Derrick Henry, Nick Chubb, Dalvin Cook, Joe Mixon, Jonathan Taylor was there in R2 — they would have a massive impact for the team. And if the tackles etc aren’t there… there’s no reason not to take them.
You’re focusing on an ideal here where you get to just tick off major needs at key positions with great players and then choose an ideal range from which to pick a RB. I’m afraid it doesn’t work like that.
And when you say things like this:
You’re into strawman territory here.
Because literally nobody is saying what you wrote.
Penny was DRAFTED to be the starting RB 4 years ago. How’s that working out??
Seattle needs an RB and needs to draft on b/t rounds 2-4.
Yes, I am absolutely ok with them writing off Carson. He is injured quite a bit, and as I said, he may not ever play again. It doesn’t make any sense to rely on him at this time. And Penny was injured a lot so how much can they rely on him as well? I had no problem resigning him, but he has not proven to be durable enough to be a feature back. Maybe this is the year, but maybe it isn’t. I also never said to waste a high pick on an RB, I just said they cannot rely on their oft injured stable of backs.
I don’t know who started the running back doesn’t matter but that person should be shot out of a cannon.
Of the 15 best runningbacks last year here’s the break down by round:
Round one: 3 picks. Zeke Elliot, Najee Harris, Melvin Gordon
Round two: 6 picks. Jonathan Taylor, Nick Chubb, Joe Mixon, Dalvin cook, Derrick Henry, Javante Williams.
Round three: four picks. James Conner, Alvin Kamara, Damien Harris, Antonio Gibson
Round six: one pick. Elijah mitchell
Udfa: one. Ekeler.
Of that I’m looking at 8 players who for sure got second contracts and continued to perform well. Without looking at both Harris’, williams and taylor barring injury will get a second contract each.
How is that plug and play when 13 of the top 15 were drafted in the first three rounds?
Then. And most important for the seahawks. This team wants to allegedly run the ball. Carson may never play and penny can’t be trusted. If you can get five to six years out of any position whether it’s runningback or any other position. you are already bucking the league average.
Finally if it was easy to plug and play runningback how come seattle can’t do it?
To point out stats about which RB’s did best last year is lazy at best and negligent at worst. Football is a team sport subject to innumerable intricacies that can’t be quantified by just who did best in numbers – most especially for RB’s.
Does said RB run behind a good o-line(or not..)?, did he land on a team thar emphasizes the run like the Hawks or a team that is more pass oriented(as many are nowadays), do they enjoy the benefit of a good coaching/scheme?, how many of the RB’s that did or didn’t make your list are power runners that get good YAC vs other styles?, how did injuries affect other teams that they played vs their run game?, Do said RB’s have a good QB/WR’s/an offense that creates favorable running for the RB in a myriad of ways/scenarios? Did said RB play against a number of lesser opponents where his team was ahead and the team then ran a lot? Did said RB play against a number of teams with poor run defenses? How often did a RB that would have bucked your stats get injured/play injured and not get a chance to gain his stats?,I could go on and on but stats aren’t the best measure imo when it comes to RB productivity.
YAC should have stayed RAC as I had originally typed…
Wtf.
It’s not lazy it’s facts.
Joe Mixon and the bengals line says “hi.”
Stats aren’t the best measure of a running backs production?….
Stats might be the only way to measure a runningback.
We aren’t looking at whether you have low interceptions but teams aren’t throwing to you. We are looking at what rounds the best runningbacks get selected. Until there is overwhelming info to state otherwise this “running backs are fungible,” is just a narrative.
And again even, even if that were true…..it’s not for Seattle.
Even ignoring all the elements that I posited by cherry picking on player on one team is both simplifying everything and can be rebutted by a number of the things I brought up.
The Bengals were playing a last place schedule coming off of 4 wins the season before. They have a top tier qb that defenses must respect and thusly opens up easier running for their rb’s with play action and so forth. A dominant team like them often gets ahead and can run to milk the clock and even gets the ball more because the other team is forced to push/pass more to try to catch up. Add in so many of the things I brought up in my last post to you(injuries, playing against poor run defenses,coaching/schemes etc etc) and it makes hand picking a single player in Mixon again lazy in our discussion. He’s a high RAC rb on a great team with a great qb playing an easy schedule all along with innumerable factors at play that can all work for or against his or any other rb’s stats.
A single player picked to front your argument that ignores the totality of all of the things that I have brought up. I won’t continue to engage in a back and forth on this subject if when you choose to over look the scope of all my counterpoints with a single player from a single team in very favorable conditions to try to further your point.
And the following RBs had no one near as good as Burrow as their QB:
Taylor…Wentz, avg.
Henry…..Tannehill, a bit above avg. and Henry was the total focus of the offense
Chubb….Mayfield, below avg.
Kamara
Kamara…..crap after Jameis went down
Gordon…..below avg. (Teddy) to crap (Lock)
Williams…..same
Gibson……crap
Harris…..mediocre
Cook……..abive avg. Kirkers
Most of those teams outside of Denver made the playoffs or challenged fore them and only 2 or 3 had above avg. QBs. I believe the position matters, especially to a Pete Carroll team.
You’re doing the same thing as Peter. It’s not just all about the qb. All three of the rb’s you listed were on teams with good talent on both sides of the ball along with good to great o-lines.
The Eagles play in the NFC east and had a middling schedule.
Henry is an outlier top top tier RB and monster of RAC, Tannehill is better than many give him credit for.
Mayfeild or not Chubb played behind a top three o-line with an extremely talented cast of offensive skill players all around that teams defenses are forced to account for – leaving more spaces for Chubb.
And again – like Peter you chose to ignore all the other factors I brought up and hand pick a few favorable players to try and make your point.
I’m done going back and forth with this type of response – nothing personal Mike it’s just very frustrating on my end and I can see I’ll just be pushing back against the tide.
You’ve not exactly done a great job arguing your case
A). We don’t know if Carson will ever play again. No news is not good news.
B). Both Carson and Penny are IR magnates. There is a good chance both are unavailable at some point in the season, and this team is absolutely atrocious without a solid running game.
C). The head coach is a strong proponent of the running game. He prefers a ground pounding offense, with occasional deep shots. Hopefully it gets tweaked, but we just don’t know.
D). Penny is signed for this year. That’s it. If he truly balls out, are you OK with them shelling out top dollar for them to retain him on an extension? Better to let him walk and grab a comp pick, if possible.
I understand your hesitancy, but this team simply will not function properly over the next few seasons of this rebuild without a solid runner behind next year’s (fingers crossed) QB draft pick.
They need a long-term solution. Neither of their current starters is that solution. So, better to grab a dominant wrecking ball runner this year and eat a little dead cap if they have to cut Carson. Have that player up to speed and ready for 2023, because both Carson and Penny will be gone by then.
And, really, everything comes down to who is available at what pick.
I can’t see why you can’t see why people are suggesting it
They’ve been running this RB duo out there for too long.
Along with the 3rd and 4th RB’s on the roster it is a very poor group.
R4/5 is not high. Noone is saying above that. However, if Kenny Walker is there at 72 and we don’t like other options, why not?
I am saying above that.
I am saying round three.
For some reason Seattle Lifer has got a bee in his bonnet about people thinking a third round runner would be some kind of horrendous decision
He equally can’t see why Carson’s potential retirement and Penny’s horrendous injury history is a concern for many
Or that most of the elite, impact running backs in the league were drafted in round two
Just about mistakes and needs Rob.
We made mistakes/big risks in free agency with our rb group. Do we compound the mistakes by pouring more resources on them or do we stop and take a look at the huge needs at premium positions and address them knowing we can get a plug and play rb in the next year or two?
And steering the narrative to a round three running back is a little disappointing, many on here have talked about spending one of our second round picks on a rb…
Again I’ll run with a 4th or 5th round rb in a deep draft to compliment what we have over missing out on huge areas of need like de, cb and tackle – we have unfortunately been witness to what poor play from those positions looks like recently and it has been extremely unsightly and cost us a HOF qb to boot.
You’re doing it again. You’re talking about positions and not players. If there’s a really good player available then yes. Nobody is arguing ‘take a running back over a great tackle’. They’re saying they like a particular player and the value is good, and that the players at premium positions aren’t there or are far less attractive based on scouting actual people, not just leaning on ‘OT more important than RB’ (which everyone accepts anyway)
‘Steering the narrative’. That’s funny.
I’ve been saying R3. That’s just the truth.
You’re saying R4-5 only.
Some others say R2. Some.
There’s no steering of a narrative.
And again you’re missing the point that people are making because you’re fixated on positions and rounds and not what’s actually available in this draft.
I’m going to end this now. It’s going round in circles.
I’d be very happy if Seattle of Dameon Pierce at #72. Without a strong running game/ play action, Seattle wont win 4 games next season.
Day 3 I hope they consider taking a kicker; if you get the right one, they are absolutely worth it!
For all the reasons I said. We already have two RB’s on the roster on solid money contracts that we chose for better or worse. Why would you knowingly retain their services, spend good money on them and then immediately have to turn around and use a high draft pick for yet another RB right after making your bed with the other two stated starters?
Add in my arguments for why it makes little sense to use a higher draft pick on a RB in the very beginning of a rebuild and I think I make a good case for why we shouldn’t be wasting a higher pick on top of a couple of mistakes we willingly made just recently.
“Why would you knowingly retain their services, spend good money on them and then immediately have to turn around and use a high draft pick for yet another RB right after making your bed with the other two stated starters?”
Because the two they spent good money on to retain their service CANNOT STAY HEALTHY.
So you’d rather pile on the mistakes by using a high draft pick that could and should go to gaping holes at tackle, corner back and defensive end?? All positions which demand high draft picks for any real chance at a good player?
My point is don’t add to the mistakes we’ve made at the running back position by using a high draft pick on yet another one right after making our bed with the other two guys we recently payed; when you desperately need to use your higher draft picks on other premium positions that we have huge needs for.
You’re trying too hard to argue against taking a running back that you’re argument is becoming increasingly flimsy.
You don’t just automatically ‘fill gaping holes’ at premium positions in round two.
If the players aren’t they, they aren’t there.
If the next Derrick Henry, Nick Chubb, Dalvin Cook, Joe Mixon, Jonathan Taylor was there in R2 — they would have a massive impact for the team.
Nobody is saying ‘draft a RB over a great tackle or pass rusher’. The players actually have to be there to draft. Some people determine, not unfairly, that a player like Breece Hall or Kenneth Walker is better than, say, Nik Bonitto.
People are looking at the players in the draft and determining value + need based on what’s actually there
And this is much fairer and plausible and defendable than trying to build an argument based purely on positions and what’s not actually available in the class.
So you’d rather add to the problem by using a high draft pick that could and should go to gaping holes at tackle, corner back and defensive end?? All positions which demand high draft picks for any real chance at a good player?
My point is don’t add to the mistakes we’ve made at the running back position by using a high draft pick on yet another one right after making our bed with the other two guys we recently payed; when you desperately need to use your higher draft picks on other premium positions that we have huge needs for.
I am interested in this argument only if you provide names worth talking about. Throwing around positions is not worth the trouble. I get your point. What people are saying to you is that it’s a lazy argument. You need to go deeper and provide a rationale about which player would fit and why he would be a good OT, Edge, CB or other premium positions you rather have then a RB in 2nd or 3rd rounds.
I’m bent on 1-yr prove deal. Carson may never play again (disc problem in neck for his style running is no joke). The RB room is fragile and unreliable to say the least.
Nothing the Hawks do in this draft is about being competitive in 2022. Drafting a good RB this year is not only a strong hedge against the current room, but also an important building block for the rebuild. Drafting an RB in R2/R3 is one of the surest labor exploitations in the NFL.
Just to flip this argument around then the only positions they should draft this year with all the picks are tackles and qb’s. All the other positions are filled and/or they alresdy blundered so why compound the problem.
Clearly we have reached an impasse.
I never once said anything about quarterbacks with you(as this year’s crop does’nt do it for me with early picks) and the only position I was talking about being filled up was rb, and even then I was only talking in terms of salary and not wanting to spend higher draft capitol there when we have other huge needs at the premium positions I did bring up:de, tackle and cb.
If you look at NFL.com they have an article about “Can’t miss Prospects”. #1 on that list is the 20 year old, Breece Hall, with a 99 overall grade. He is a RB. Might be the next Emmitt Smith that you can get with a 2nd round pick. You would rather pick the 10th LT, 9th DE, or 7th CB, instead of getting the #1 RB. Bold move Cotton.
That’s just it.
Rob has done it tons. I recently did it. Create a realistic mock where you can approach to draft by vastly improving the roster and still bring in a great running back.
I like a few RB’s. But yeah if you can do some early work in the draft maybe trade down a bit for stingley. Up a bit for Linderbaum. ( just examples here) and you can get Breece Hall at 41 which is basically the sweet spot for what was a half generation ago first round players in running back…then yeah you do that. The best at that position are getting second round contracts.
And if the team as a whole isn’t done sorting it’s qb situation by next season then frankly anyone we pick now will become meaningless by the time they sort it.
Your last line is the kicker. In a team devoid of playmakers the lesser prospect of need shouldn’t trump the BPA. If need and BPA meet that’s striking gold.. but a mediocre player just to fill a hole will have you doing the same in short order.
For those who missed it — Harper was on my hidden gems list recently.
How about Covey UT for return specialist in R7 ?
Isn’t he like 30 years old?
I kid, kind of.
There are a couple of conundrums a GM must somehow navigate: 1) without an elite QB, an elite roster is basically worthless, unless you really like losing close games in the 4th quarter; and 2) but if you have an elite QB, you cannot pay him in the top 5 salary wise, or you will not win a Super Bowl (historically proven with no exceptions).
So, how do you find an elite QB but then replace him with another elite QB before you have to pay him $50M/yr? The most simple way is to draft one and have him on a rookie contract, and maybe retain him if his 2nd contract is reasonable and then let him go and start all over again.
What this means for John and Pete is they must find that elite QB in this draft or the next. Otherwise, we languish in football hell for years and years. The talking heads say to wait until next year, for a better talent pool, but that will obviously increase the pressure and perhaps the cost. The fact is, none of us know enough about these QBs to know how mature they are, how professional in their preparation, how solid of a leader and team mate. John, and Pete as well, have to make this call and we have to hope they get it right. Do they like a guy this year contra the talking heads (a’la Russell Wilson ten years ago)? We will know soon enough.
If the Seahawks are going OT, DE or CB in R1, it seems to me that LT is the most difficult of the three to find. A DE can disrupt an offense when a pass rush is the only way to stop these three-step passing games. But a CB impacts every single play, if he is good enough to take away an entire side of the field. If Pete and John are still using their first winning formula, a shut down corner like Sherm could have more of an impact than a DE, when we won the SB with good but not great pass rushers but uber-elite DBs.
Yes exceptions.
Last year’s Super Bowl champ sunk $45million into the QB position in 2021.
I still have no idea what kind of Voodoo the Rams did with the cap last year to make everything work. Really makes me believe the cap is basically irrelevant if you have an owner willing to pay the cash to restructure deals.
There’s a lot of layers to it.
1-They have drafted incredibly well.
2-They are not afraid to trade high picks for top players at critical positions.
3-They ruthlessly cut or trade players before they are a liability. Mistakes are NOT kept on the roster.
4-They play on the inflation of the cap as well as anyone in the NFL.
In other words, pretty much all the things Seattle has not done in the last 7-8 years save for trading high draft picks for Jamal Adams. Oh wait, that didn’t exactly go swimmingly either did it. I guess when you do it you have to trade for the right guy.
Oh and you did say “critical positions” which box safety isn’t. Double fail. Good job Petey!
I agree Big Mike. It was as painful to read this great post from Cha as it has been to watch the Hawks play the Rams since they got Donald. An indictment on the PCJS regime listing all the great necessary decisions the Rams have made that the Seahawks have not. For some reason it keeps bringing the image of Ra’s al Ghul from Batman Begins. “Have you finally learned to do what is necessary?”
Sadly PCJS have too much hubris. I hope they really self-scout and learn this time. If not, and if they’re not held accountable, why keep following the team?
They also went all in. They won last year, but they will suffer in a year or 2 when Ramsey and Donald are no longer superstars and they have no young talent anywhere.
I sang that song in 2018. I sang it again in 2019. And again 2020.
I even tried a chorus and two verses in 2021.
I. Was. Wrong.
Can’t we just admit that the SB champs in 2021 have done an incredible job managing their roster? Why is that so difficult?
I never sang it. I said the same thing about KC during the playoffs. They better win it all because it’s their last chance for a while. Kelce is old and now Hill is gone. They are going down in talent while all their competition is going up.
Ramsey has 1 more year as a top 5 corner, then he will no longer be “shutdown”. Donald has 1 more year as a DPOY possibility (If that). Kupp may only have 1 year left of top play as well. If the Rams don’t win it all this year then they will not be back again until they rebuild.
Totally disagree about Kupp’s timeline.
He turns 29 in 2 months. He may be decent when he’s 30, but he won’t put numbers up like he did last year. Their stars are all at the end of their prime. They’re lucky the NFC is weak. It might give them a chance this year.
I hope he’s right. Dust to dust, Rams stars! Seeing their decline will be a beautiful thing.
No… Matt Stafford’s salary in 2021 was $27 million. The $45M will be an annualized salary for his extension going forward. This will devour the Ram’s roster as it does with every other team (see loss of Devonta Adams and Tyreek Hill).
And Jared Goff’s dead cap hit?
The repercussions of the Ram’s cap structure will hit them in 2022 and especially in the years ahead. Right now the Rams are $8M over the cap and it gets worse down the road. Let’s ignore the headlines about Russell Wilson wanting to play in a different offense. He and John and Pete always have discussions about the future, and Russ was clear that he wanted a $50M/yr+ extension, and John knew better than to pay it. To do so would put Seattle into the same top-heavy structure as the Saints, Chiefs, Packers, etc…. none of which made the SB again after the monster QB payday.
You’re arguing the only way to win a SB is to not invest too much cap in QB.
I’m telling you – the Rams JUST WON THE 2021 SB with a $45m cap hit for QBs.
Good God, this shouldn’t be this hard to grasp.
The round and rounds in the comment section today have been quite entertaining.
Just got through all the comments. Great post by everyone today. Love the rounds as well. Comical! 🤣
I think that’s just the way the world is these days. Get out of here with your frowny-face facts! 45 million? That’s just a narrative.
Note the subject of the sentence though. The Rams, yes they managed it with a Baker Mayfield priced dead cap hit plus a very reasonable Stafford salary.
The Hawks on the other hand, haven’t managed anything close since paying Russ even 23 ish million. Was Russ not good enough? I think not. So whodunit
..
Both OTC and Spotrac seem to agree with the Rams being 7m under the cap. And it won’t get worse, because their contracts are genuinely well structured. Plus, there are always the Browns, Jags and Jets to trade with.
That said…
The QB position soaking up $40m will become pretty much commonplace in the NFL. So, the question is, if paying $10m more at the QB position for a franchise QB really weighs up vs adding what to Seahawks signing is a pretty meeehhh former Bolts DE.
And, btw, just to be clear… no, John Schneider knew nothing. He patched over a couple of Probowlers on the team alienating with his HC by trading/releasing them. In just about 8 months, Seahawks fans will feel real despair and sellers remorse over the Wilson trade. You haven’t been a fan of a QB-needy crap team for quite some time.
Outstanding work Rob,
I want to mention how awful most mock draft are.. they are bad. CBS Sports, ESPN, NFL.com, etc… They seem to put no thought into a product that has their name on it. Lazy selections and poor writing on player descriptions.
Some of their Seahawks picks are so bad that they’re laughable.
Thank you for the high standards you display daily.
Thanks for reading
What happened to Rasheem Green?
Weren’t a lot of people considering resigning him a top priority?
Oops.
‘A lot of people’ is probably an over exaggeration
I didn’t think resigning was a top priority. Though i still think if they were running a 4-3 and not a 3-4 he’d have value. You don’t build a roster by infinitely not retaining your draft picks and when you do retain them they go and get injured and can’t even see the field.
But i’ll take my lumps. Heck I once was called an actual idiot on this very blog because a commentor “knew,’ dj chark sucked when I said he was good during the draft. Turns out.. he’s been pretty good even on this mess of a team he’s on.
Not as bad as being called an idiot for stating that your brother’s (and only sibling) nicotine addiction led to his death at age 56 after smoking for 45 years on another site, not this one. Needless to say, I don’t frequent that site any longer. It’s just football my friend, though it is refreshing when you’re proven correct after being told you’re wrong. Congrats on that.
First that absolutely sucks to have lost your brother at that age.
Second. I take to heart that people will say stuff online they’d never be caught dead saying outloud.
Third. It’s just for fun here right? In the end the best guessers here are probably going to miss 2/3rds or more of every roster move.
I definitely bought into the hype that he was just starting to blossom and at the right age. Bummed for him, but I imagine someone will eventually pick him up and throw him into a rotation.
Also, I’m still perplexed about why we dropped Carlos Dunlap. Our defense looks terrible on paper right now.
I’m not too surprised. I’ve said the whole off-season he wasn’t good. Age is a double edge sword. Potential is a double edge sword. Seems like the rest of the league agrees.
Hope this turns out okay. As it is one of these guys is not signed and one of these guys is getting 10 million guaranteed. Hope the scheme fits the former if it doesn’t fit the latter.
Nwosu: 67% of snaps. 40 tackles. 5 sacks. 8 tfl. 17 qb hits. 4 passes defended. 1 int.
Green: 67% of snaps. 48 tackles. 6.5 sacks. 6 tfl. 15 qb hits. 4 passes defended.
Looking at that I hope nwosu is the worlds most expensive hedge for an OLB, edge rusher.
Ouch Peter. Another dagger through the heart of my desperate Seahawks optimism this offseason.
Surely next year they can’t be cheapskates yet again with 150 mil or whatever in cap space? What are they going to do, bring in 25 Benson Mayowa types?
Please Seahawks I want to see some Ferraris besides Metcalf. I’ve had enough Chevys and Hyundais.
But if you look deeper…Green has a pressure rate at around 7%…Teams are looking deeper beyond the surface numbers. That’s why he’s hanging around in FA. I still stand by what I said. Plus it’s a deep Dline class.
It’s a little surprising to see for someone at a premium position who put up 6.5 sacks in their age 24 season; especially considering the developmental curve that some DEs have. Mike Bennett, Matt Judon, Z’Darius Smith weren’t close to that at the same age.
Seattle person above you might be right that he’s not good. I don’t know. Maybe. I think if you want to build a team maybe retain third round players getting at least incrementally more into their position than not. Certainly if you can find the money for a regressing TE that blocks.
I try to look at just the player itself. Is he worth it? I think fans can talk themselves into certain players based on needs.
You want to be able to project ahead. I’ll be honest. Nothing about what Green does makes a team go, “hmmm I need that player.” Look at his win rate. Look at his pressure rate. We aren’t seeing a player that is progressing. His numbers are nice but I think that’s why teams are ignoring him.
Rob, I’m a huge Sam Williams fan so I’m just spitballing here, but with teams not wanting to give up much this year would you endorse a trade with GB swapping #9 for #22 or #28 plus a third and fifth this year and a 2023 first? They get the player they want in Williams but punt on the first this year to give themselves five picks in the first two rounds next year to maneuver for a QB? Essentially getting the value of a 2nd, 3rd, & 5th for dropping down 13 to 19 spots.
“I’m totally comfortable coming away with Johnson and Tyler Linderbaum as the first two picks and simply saying — great — we’ve sorted the interior O-line for the next 8-10 years. Now let’s run the ball brilliantly.”
This is the way.
nice piece
Who do you suggest Green Bay would be targeting at 9?
My guess is they would be try to land a WR. I know they have not taken one in the first round but its a glaring hole.
trying
Pugs: If Green Bay wanted to move up to Seattle’s #9 pick. The Price would be HIGH. It would be Green Bay’s first two round picks this year and next years first round pick. At least those three picks. Either that or Green Bay’s two first round picks. Plus their first 2nd round pick in this years draft.
If Green Bay says no. Fine I will keep D.K. Metcalf. I am NOT giving him away.
I probably didn’t make it clear but I was making reference to the point someone made earlier about it being a buyers market to move up. Using the new trade chart the 9th pick is worth 387 points GB’s picks are worth 381 it’s close
Vital news this
Was just thinking we’re a bit short at safety… better get that addressed pronto
Biggest need on the roster
Phew
Could the peacock be a draft day trade 🙂 please make it so!!!!!
Sarcasm so thick it would make a hippo jealous…I love it!
Thanks for all you do Rob, this site is daily must visit for me.
Rob do you think a trade down from #9 to KC or GB for their two firsts is possible?
Linderbaum and Johnson in round 1. Williams and Anderson or Tindall
at 40 and 41.
No it’s too far
My mock draft has us trading our #9, our #229 pick and a 2nd next year for the 16 and 19 from New Orleans. We then get Tyler Linderbaum C and T Bernhard Raimann for the Oline, 40 and 41 we get cd Jalen Pitre and edge Nik Bonitto. 72 go for linebacker Brian Asamoah and then back to the offense with picks 109, 152 and 153 with T Kennen Diesch, C Joshua Williams and QB Bailey Zappe. Let us FIX the blasted OLINE so the next QB doesnt have to take so many hits, part of the reason “let Russ cook,” left.