Thursday notes: How do the changes impact the draft?

A quick heads up — I’m scheduled to appear on KJR with Softy at 5pm to talk about the Seahawks playing in London this year. Tune in if you get a chance.

How do the changes impact the draft?

Seattle will have a new offensive coordinator and a new offensive line coach.

Will Pete Carroll retain the existing identity with some minor tweaks and a new voice giving out the instructions? Or is he willing to cede some control to get a big name coordinator?

For example, if the Seahawks appoint Eagles quarterback coach John DeFilippo, we could see similar concepts and therefore personnel. If they go out and land Todd Haley, the changes could be more significant.

We know fixing the running game is a priority. We also know the Seahawks have drafted a ‘type’ of running back in recent years.

Could that change depending on the coordinator?

For example, with Haley would they try to recreate Pittsburgh’s offense utilising a patient runner similar to Le’Veon Bell? If so, Kerryon Johnson could be the target.

Previously I’d thought Oregon’s Royce Freeman would be a bad fit in Seattle but a nice option for other teams. Are the Seahawks a more likely destination if they adjust their blocking scheme?

After all, while Freeman isn’t the most physical runner, he’s a good athlete. Here’s how he performed at the 2013 Nike SPARQ combine:

Height: 6-0
Weight: 227lbs
Forty: 4.58
Short Shuttle: 4.07
Powerball: 39
Vertical: 33.6
SPARQ: 121.17

Will a new offensive line coach or offensive coordinator demand even more focus on the O-line, to finally get sorted up front? And will the #18 pick provide an opportunity to do that?

Of course, it’ll still be John Schneider and Pete Carroll having the final say on personnel. It’ll be interesting to see who they bring in, however, and whether that does tweak some of the decisions they might make in the draft.

Damien Harris doesn’t declare

It’s a blow because he fit Seattle’s running style nicely. He was also a terrific pass blocker and played with a real tenacity. A complete running back.

There are still a lot of good options in the draft, however.

USC’s Ronald Jones II might come into even more focus. He’s lighter than Seattle has drafted for the positions (6-0, 200lbs) but as we highlighted recently, he’s so similar to Jamaal Charles. Putting Chris Carson and Jones II together could be a great combo. They could also add a free agent into the mix.

Kerryon Johnson, Sony Michel, Nick Chubb and Royce Freeman could all make sense too if the Seahawks move back from #18 into the early second round.

Da’Ron Payne impressive vs Georgia

I watched the National Championship again in particular to focus on Alabama’s Payne. He had a terrific performance and was arguably ‘Bama’s best defender.

Considered by many to be the best run stuffer eligible for the draft (he has now declared he’ll be turning pro), you saw plenty of snaps where Payne absorbed double teams and controlled the LOS. A lot of Nick Chubb’s rough night was down to Payne dominating the interior.

He also flashed an assortment of pass rush moves and some surprising quickness I hadn’t noticed before. He showed a good get-off on several snaps to break into the backfield and impact the quarterback, there was evidence of a swim move, evidence of a pull-push to get off a block. On one burst into the backfield he forced a bad throw leading to a tipped pass and an interception. He had a great bull rush, driving a blocker deep into the backfield before disengaging to bring the running back down at the LOS.

Look at the quickness here at 6-2 and 308lbs. The Georgia center has no chance to get across and make this block:

Here he is handling the run inside:

He’s also not a bad target in the red zone:

This was a first round performance from Payne. And if it’s true the Clemson trio of Clelin Ferrell, Christian Wilkins and Austin Bryant are considering returning — Payne will likely be one of the benefactors.

I was also invited to do a quick podcast appearance with Field Gulls today on the London game:

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  1. GerryG

    Time for a new TEF!

    Potentially really opens up the draft pool this year. I really hope they pick someone young and fresh with new ideas.

    • Rob Staton

      The great thing about TEF is it still helps us rank who are the most explosive offensive and defensive linemen in the draft. So even though Cable has gone, the formula itself will still tell us an awful lot about this and future draft classes.

      • Trevor

        Great point Rob and if guys are of equal talent the explosiveness would likely be a deciding factor.

      • GerryG

        Totally I agree, was teasing 🙂

      • Mark Souza

        It may identify who is more explosive, but it does nothing to determine the most talented lineman. It might be useful if you have two players where you rank their skillsets as equal, and then use TEF to break the tie.

        I for one will be happy to bury the TEF now that it’s main proponent has left town. Let’s get back to watching film and determining who has the skills, balance, and footwork to play at a high level in this league. It doesn’t appear we have done this since drafting Carpenter. (Anyone who saw Alabama film would have known he’d never be a tackle in this league)

        • Rob Staton

          It never, ever, ever set out to identify who is the more talented lineman.

          One thing I’ve never understood are why people don’t ‘get’ TEF. Time and time again people comment that it doesn’t determine talent. I know that. The point of it is merely to measure athletic performance at the combine. But nobody has ever tried to argue player A is better than player B because they test better. It’s to merely highlight the athletic differences between the players.

          Pure and simple.

        • GerryG

          TEF is is a great piece of work. It’s another metric similar to sparq designed to evaluate athletic potential. If you can’t appthe work that went into it, and the value it gives to evaluate line prospects then I’m not sure why one would post here.

  2. Schuemansky

    IMO the changes will lead to similarly aggressive roster moves.
    PCJS will want to get more quality draft picks and more cap space for FA moves.
    So if they can find the right deals for ET and/or RS and/or MB they will trade them.

    And in case ET is traded, what about Jordan Whitehead, Pitt (5’11”, 195 lbs)?
    From what I read a saw, he seems to be really fast and agile and should
    test well at the combine.
    Against Penn State (2016) (
    he only got beaten by a certain Saquon Barkley once in coverage and once
    in run defense (well at least he slowed him down a bit).
    Didn’t find anything about arm length, but I guess for a free safety it
    won’t matter that much.
    he was compared favorably to Derwin, especially in their coverage skills.
    And as a bonus you could even get some 3rd down RB depth

  3. Jason

    What are your guys thoughts on Jarran Reed after a couple years? How is he as a pass rusher?

    How would you compare Payne and Reed?

    • GerryG

      I’m no scout, but he has surpassed my expectations. I thought he was really good this year, on a line that underachieved (in terms of pass rush at least).

    • Gohawks5151

      At times he seemed to be the best /most consistent DL on the team especially early in the season. Had a great game in LA vs Rams. But as the year went along he faded just like everyone else. He was also hurt for a while too. I think the arrow is still pointing up for him. Still part of the DL of the future. I thought his pass rush was very good at times. Definitely not the slug he was made out to be during the draft. I think he is right on the track Seattle has set out for him. Now needs to improve consistency.

      Payne looks different to me. Bigger and Longer in the torso and arms. I have no basis for that but just on look. I’d say he has more explosion than Reed but is fundamentally sound like him.

      • GerryG

        They didnt have great DT depth, so I think him and Sheldon wore down with Naz missing last 5-6 games; that was a big loss

    • Volume12

      Thought he made some really nice strides in his game and you can’t ask much more from a 2nd year player. Especially a JUCO guy who’s development is a year or two behind. Not a building block or corner stone but one of the better young up and coming 1-techs in the league.

    • BobbyK

      Although his game at that position is vastly different than his predecessor, he is going to be Mebane-like in terms of being an anchor who will do his job at a high level, yet will be a guy you won’t see in the Pro Bowl either. He’ll be a Pro Bowler of the non-Pro Bowlers, if you will. Good, solid player. An asset, not a liability.

      • C-Dog


    • Al

      Nothing bad to say, he seems on track to exceed draft capital. I think another offseason will do him, and a few others good like Pocic, Fant, Roos, N. Jones, S. Richardson, Griffin, McDougald. All those guys should improve in theory, moving on from being rookies, being new to the team, being new to an NFL weight room.

    • C-Dog

      I think Reed has more upside as an inside rusher than he’s often been given credit. I think his game is evolving, and he looks like he’s going to be a solid player. He looked quicker this year than last year. Nobody will even compare him to Donald. Payne looks even quicker, though.

      On the subject, I thought Naz Jones looked further ahead as a rookie this season to where Reed was at as a rookie last year. So, that’s something to look forward to next year. If these two cats stay healthy, Seattle could be totally set at DT, even if they don’t reach a deal with Sheldon Richardson.

  4. Brandon Adams

    Thoughts on Brian Schottenheimer, Rob? Has-been or underrated as Sando suggested?

    • Rob Staton

      It’s hard to say. It’s hard to judge him on offenses QB’d by guys like Mark Sanchez and whoever was the backup to an injured Sam Bradford. He hasn’t pulled up any trees so far but also hasn’t been blessed with a lot of talent.

      Not sure it’d be the worst appointment but there may also be more attractive options out there.

      • D-OZ


    • C-Dog

      On the surface, feels lateral, but it sounds like the team is searching for an OC who will challenge RW, and the feeling is that he did a nice job with Brisset in Indy, and had Sanchez playing at his best in NY.

      My hunch is that the #1 target is coaching on a team that is currently in the playoffs.

      • Patrick Toler

        Agreed. I think they would have announced someone (or a name would have been leaked) otherwise.

    • James

      OC speculation is a nice parlor game for the 12’s during this too-long off-season, so here goes:

      – I want Pete to interview as many candidates as reasonable, and grill them on what they thought of our offensive performance the past couple of seasons; how they break down our schemes and play calling; and what they would do differently. I want Pete to weigh the proposed schemes from the candidates against each other, and when he hears the one that he knows is the correct way to go, then bring in Russ to see how their chemistry is together (a’la Pete/John). If Russ gives a thumbs up, then make the hire. I don’t care if it is Schottenheimer, Shula, De Filippo, et al. How should I know? How should any of us know?

      – I do know that we need a sound man-blocking OL scheme, as the book is out on the zone scheme, and DL’s are jumping the gaps, not to mention the evisceration of that method due to the cut block being terminated. I do know that we need a complex and sophisticated scheme, with creative play calling. I do know that we need to have Russ do what he does best… play action, on the move, threats to run, deep strikes. I do know that our route trees always need an outlet underneath receiver that was nowhere to be seen the past two years.

      – A young buck like De Filippo would bring visions of the next Sean McVay, which would electrify this team, but he would certainly be a one-and-done (given he is already under serious consideration for head coaching jobs). Do we really want to burn a year and then have to hire again, bringing in yet another new scheme? Not to mention, he has a minimal track record as a play-caller, and since that is more art than science, we don’t know how he would perform in the heat of battle.

      – So, since none of us know what kind of analysis these OC candidates would offer regarding the flaws in Bevell’s schemes, nor what solutions they would offer to utilize Russ to the max, we just have to trust that Pete will bring the same juice to this hire that he brought when he hired John.

  5. Volume12

    Milhouse-serbia, sorry I didn’t respond on Rob’s last post. You asked about my thoughts on WR Jaleel Scott?

    I like him. A lot actually. Former JUCO guy. Raw as hell, but good lord does he make you sit up with his natural ability. One of the better jump ball guys in this class. 6’6 and makes some athletic plays that guys his size shouldn’t. Game breaker. Think he’ll be a freak at the combine. Not a great route runner but neither was Randy Moss. That can be taught. Not saying he’s Moss though. Linear build, but good strength and doesn’t shy away from the MOF. FWIW Seattle did scout NM St. twice this year too.

    Reminds me of the big, unpolished WRs Pete lilked at USC. He’s an exciting, exciting talent. Sky is the limit.

    • peter

      kind of a lot of interesting Wr’s at the senior bowl. a bunch of dudes 6’3″ and bigger:

      Scott, ateman, lazard, clark, moore.

      I’d love to see scott in seattle but every year I like a guy with that profile and every year seattle passes. green Beckham was the most recent in memory.

      pretty see Scott’s broad jump and vert. he looks fast too me but maybe not in the short area stuff.

    • D-OZ

      I like Scott. I was just wondering did Cobb the IU receiver just fall out of favor. Or has there been other long receiver’s who have emerged…

      • peter

        cobbs is very good. the guys I listed are more later round prospects. plus cobbs is a junior and these guys are players to focus on at the senior bowl.

    • millhouse-serbia

      Tnx Volume12.

  6. Greg Haugsven

    Second time I have seen Davenport mocked to us

    • D-OZ

      If Davenport were there #18 I would think they might run to the podium. Although I would still trade down.

  7. Kenny Sloth

    Steel City Derby tomorrow. Hopefully I can find it for free~

    • Rob Staton

      Tune in! Underrated derby. Will be loud.

      • Thy Hawk is Howling

        Are you blokes talking about World Football? I don’t understand why the entire World calls it Football when everyone knows it’s called Soccer I think maybe Canada knows as well?

        Also what’s up with this metric system? In the America we use the “Standard” system because we’re the greatest country in the world (Not) so all you metric system people need to change because that would be way more convienant for us U.S. citizens!

        “For Purple Mountain’s majesty, Above the fruited Plain”

        *Disclaimer – That was absolutely Facesious Sarcasm*

        Go Metric System

        Go Hawks!

  8. Milwaukee hawk

    Will be interesting to see if moving on from Cable means we will also move on from the ZBS and begin to develop more power running plays. Could change what type of o lineman we’re looking for with less focus on athleticism and more focus on strength

    • Sean-O

      That hire will be really interesting. It could even chance how some of the current lineman workout this off season.

  9. SeahawkeyezSub80

    Listening 2 mike Holmgren. Hire Jim Zorn as OC/qb coach. Mike Solari as Oline coach. I’m old school. I love it.

    • SeahawkeyezSub80

      Jim Zorn a man of God fit right into RW wheelhouse. May not work for some teams.would be perfect for Seattle.

      • SeahawkeyezSub80

        If I was Pete. John. PA. MIKE SHULA O.C. JIM ZORN AS AN COACH

        • SeahawkeyezSub80

          Qb coach. Mike Solari as Oline coach.

          • Pickering

            I agree with those who’ve already said ‘go young’ and hopefully find PC’s replacement.

  10. Aaron

    Awesome to hear you on Softy’s show Rob. Great to see you’re getting more recognized over here in the PNW and beyond. I’m excited for the Hawks going to London and likely playing against Lynch for probably the last time ever.

    • Rob Staton

      Thanks for listening Aaron!

      • Greg Haugsven

        Just curious Rob, would having that game in London stop you from taking your yearly trip to Seattle?

        • Rob Staton

          Not necessarily but we’ll see. Usually plan the trip over the summer so will have a look when the schedule comes out.

          • CHawk Talker Eric

            Anyone interested in a SDB group at the game? I’d like to go

            • millhouse-serbia

              I have a huuuuge desire to go to London, but probably that would be to much money for me. I need to pay 100eu for visa, 300 euro for flight, minimum 100eu for motel or apartmant and I don’t know how much money will be the tickets…my average monthly salary is around 800eu so I cant afford to spent the whole salary for just two days in London… 🙁

            • Rob Staton

              I think a meet-up would be a great idea.

              • Myfanwy365

                I’m definitely planning on being there, friends with some users of another forum, gonna group with a Jags fan & Eagles fan to share the season ticket.

                WHL seems like a pain in the arse to get to though, Google Maps giving me like 5 changes of train, tram, bus & walk from Oxford

                • UKAlex

                  Meet up is good idea. Myfanwy -you are correct, the NFL don’t realise we are hamstrung by sunday services!!!

                  • Myfanwy365

                    Yeah, luckily my wife’s mum lives in Oxford, If I travelled from my home in Chester, my options for getting home would be leave at 7:30pm during Q4 or face not getting home until Monday 9am

  11. Sean-O

    The OC search should be interesting.

    Zorn’s name has come up. I’m a Zorn fan but just not sure he fits what RW might need. I think RW needs to be challenged, possibly motivated & even questioned sometimes. I’m not sure Zorn’s that guy.

    I think a sneaky hire would be Ben McAdoo. He might be more “Robin” than “Batman” which is fine for an OC under a strong leader like PC. He’s got a real solid resume over the last 12 years or so.

    John DiFilippo is definitely the hot name. Love what he’s down with Wentz this year.

  12. CHawk Talker Eric

    I was torn betwixt Harris and RJ2. Which when I think about it, says a lot about Harris, because I’m a huge RJ2 fan. He has great instincts and anticipation. Plus athlete with endurance to play hard at the end of a game. A little undersized, but looks like he could handle a lead role, even if he won’t – for no reason other than his poor pass pro.

    But now that Harris is out, I’m all in on RJ2.

    Would be a very interesting backfield with Carson & RJ2, with Prosise, Rawls backing up.


      Rawls good as gone, unfortunately. Pete never calls people out in the media, but he always made sure to highlight how “disappointing” all of Rawls’ ridiculous penalties were this year. He took note of his boneheadednsss. Always liked Rawls coming off 2015, but I think he was riding the scholarship this year, and he’s worn out his welcome.

      I wonder if I different blocking scheme might make RJ2 a more realistic option for us, especially if they still believe in Carson. Plus, we still have Mike Davis who is a little bigger than both and got the most out of what was blocked for him. Let’s assume that Prosise makes the team, or not, I really think he has to battle McKissic for a spot. That would be an amazing stable… in theory.

      • CHawk Talker Eric

        Ugh. That should read: Jones has great instincts and anticipation…🙄

        Yes, I forgot about McKissic & Davis. I agree he’s ahead of Rawls on the depth chart. Ditto Davis. Plus they’ll sign at least one FA for training camp. Doesn’t look good for Thomas.

        While I’m here I might as well finish my thought about this RB class. I like Harris in large part because he’s a complete player. He’s an excellent blocker, either in pass pro or downfield. Could even see him in a swing RB/FB role for SEA. He’s probably the 2nd most NFL ready RB in this class.

        But I think Jones is the better runner/receiver, and probably has a higher ceiling as an offensive weapon. If they could stay healthy, Carson/RJ2 would be a monster backfield tandem.

        • Patrick Toler

          I think Jones is the best pure runner in this class. Not as complete as Barkley (or Harris). But he has an unreal combination of burst, balance, vision, and toughness. His size limits him as a blocker and he wasn’t used much as a receiver, but man he can tote it.

        • 80SLargent

          Rawls: Restricted Free Agent (RFA)
          Davis: RFA
          McKissic: Exclusive Rights Free Agent (ERFA)

          This means there’s no guarantee Seattle keeps any of those guys.
          Rawls was undrafted. In order to retain him, Seattle would have to put at least a 2nd round “tender” on him. Last season, that amount was about $2.75M. It’s fairly safe to say at this point that Rawls isn’t worth that.
          Davis was a 4th round pick, so Seattle could put an original round tender on him. Last season, that amount was about $1.8M. That’s still more than what a 2nd round rookie would cost, so I think they also move on from Davis.
          Out of those three, they have the most “control” over the ERFA McKissic, and with his versatility, he’s probably the most likely guy they keep. Carson has 3 years on his rookie deal, and Prosise has two. That being said, I bet we see a similar draft strategy with the RB position to what we saw in 2016 (3rd, 5th, 7th).

    • C-Dog

      Jones2 and Michel are the ones who I feel torn about presently. Kinda like Seattle matching a home run hitter with the grinder quality of Carson.

      • peter

        in the semifinal it felt like Michel was helping his QB out to bail him out, coming back near the line of scrimmage on broken plays. I don’t know it’s definitely tight between those two.

        I wish both had a little more clips of them pass blocking or catching. They both look good catching but it’s super infrequent, until these playoffs for Michel.

        The problem is without pass blocking both aren’t true three down backs. And Carson even in college you could tell he was becoming a really well rounded RB. Obviously Lynch before him as well.

    • Nick


  13. Hawk Eye

    lots of praise put there from players for both Bevel and Cable. Looks like a case where the 2 headed monster could not function and that a change was needed, more than a case of either person not being competent. Sometimes things get stale and people too close to the problem cannot see it with the clarity of an outside pair of eyes.
    Cowboys looking at Cable for new o line coach. Be curious to see what he does with filet mignon.

    Hopefully, new OC gets control and can manage things properly. But we should expect some growing pains and they might start the year slowly again. But hopefully I am wrong about that.

    • RealRhino2

      Re Cable: Even some abused spouses wrongly think it’s their fault…..

      Seriously, I don’t read too much into these things when these guys are part of a culture that values self-reliance, no excuses, etc. They always put it on themselves. Plus, honestly, what do they know about other coaches? Other than their college coach, Cable’s the only coach most of these guys have had. He might be terrible relative to other NFL line coaches and they’d think he was just fine.

      • Hawk Eye

        based on the interview I posted with Ray Roberts below, you have a good point

  14. Hawk Eye

    interesting comments from Ray Roberts of Cable

    • C-Dog

      It was a really good listen on the radio today, and made a lot of sense. Considering how many times baller carriers were met in backfield this year, I think it’s entirely possible the OL tipped their hands more time than not. His observations on Ifedi were also really interesting. Almost felt like he was lobbying for a coaching gig.

      • CharlieTheUnicorn

        Roberts was a very good OL. I think the best quote from what I heard was….
        When Brown showed up via trade, he was everything you needed at LT. By the end of the season, he was looking ordinary or even worse….. and that was due to Cable and his coaching technique. Sealed Cable’s fate right there.

        I’m wondering if they might go to a power scheme from now on…. Ifedi is the guy who is made for that scheme. Big, powerful, and above average athleticism. Roberts said he could be very good to maybe even probowl caliber, with the right coaching and an expansion of his “skills” or as Ray said.. “tools”… so he could keep DL/LBs off their marks, since his drop back spot would change from time to time (not repeat the exact same sequence every down).

        • C-Dog

          Great points. Yeah, the observation on Brown was really interesting. I hope they go more power. At least, as Roberts stated, mix things up so defensive players can’t key like they have.

        • peter

          Before giving up on Ifedi I’d like to see some more power. Just read a great article about Case Keenum and Schurmur and of course it’s just coach speak, but Schurmur was talking about “when a player comes here we find what works for them and not try to fit them into our system………………..” Now PC can talk system all day until he’s blue in the face because he has had at one time a period of 4-5 years in a row being the top defense in the league with parts found from all over the draft board.


          You can probably figure out the rest in regards to the Oline. Just start with the basics especially for guys like Carpenter and Ifedi who never even ran a ZBS. Just get them good at stoning fools with their obvious gifts and then get creative.

          • CharlieTheUnicorn

            I would let Walter Jones work with them…. he was a powerful man… once in a generation type of talent of course…. but he had exceptional balance and more importantly… when he puts his hands on the guy he was blocking…. game over, Walter won that play. I’m not saying Ifedi is Walter Jones, but I’m saying Ifedi is a powerful man… and could yet really shine.

            • peter

              Thats why I secretly hope for Ifedi inside and perhaps Fant outside. Simply because While Jones may or may not be able to coach I think he has an eye to what works.

              I don’t like players switching sides but I’m not so sure Fant has enough (he doesn’t btw) at LT to focus him solely over there.

        • arias

          Lets not get carried away, to say Ray Roberts was a “very good OL” is grossly overstating things. His career was pretty average and his rookie season where he was thrown in at LT from day 1 he was simply awful. He only really played the first 3 seasons of his rookie contract in Seattle before getting sidelined with injury in year 4. He spent rest of his career in Detroit where he played consistently better. I just remember how terrible he was at first in Seattle. As the 10th pick in the draft, the Seahawks didn’t really get value from the draft capital they spent but their first priority was a LT they could plug in as starter so he was the pick.

          That’s taking nothing away from his knowledge of the game as he sounds very knowledgeable and could turn out to be a far better line coach than he was a player. I enjoyed listening to his insights in the clip.

        • H

          I think its very possible for us to be able to maintain our zone blocking system whilst incorperating more power man as well, to keep the defense guessing.
          The saints run both kinds of run play to great effect, essentially using Ingram and Kamara in two different schemes, if we grabbed a rojo or a michel to be our kamara i think we could replicate their run game quite nicely. (Joe lombardi would be a cool choice for oc imo)
          I think Browns regression later in the year could have been down to injury and inexperience blocking for a guy Russ, rather than Cable making an experienced pro bowl tackle worse over night. Either way i expect better next season

          • C-Dog

            I thought the real salient points from Roberts were that Seattle made no attempt to mix anything up to keep defenders guessing like other teams do.

            • Tecmo Bowl

              +1 This has been my biggest point as well. Mixing up the blocking scheme/look keeps defenders on their toes. It’s cool to hear a quality former NFL OL validate view points that we have discussed here on the blog.

        • drewdawg11

          I think in a private moment Brown would admit that blocking for Russell in this chaotic version of a functional offense was tough to understand. You mean you can block your man out of the picture only to have tjebQB scramble into that guy? Also, the scheme was trash and the guys around him were terrible, (Joeckel). He also held out for a good portion of the season and was nicked up. Fresh start coming up. He will be better.

          • C-Dog

            Those are some valid points but Roberts seemed convinced that it was his technique slipping.

            • drewdawg11

              Definitely was and as a former athlet and coach, when you get freistrayed with how things are going, or you’re compensating for an injury, things can go south with your technique. He had an ankle and a knee issue since what, the cardinals game in Glendale?

              • drewdawg11

                I really need to spell check. Sorry you all had to see that.

      • vrtkolman

        That’s why I think Ifedi will still end up a good player. The fact that he improved a bit this year despite playing at a huge disadvantage on every single drop back is a good sign. Once he actually plays to his strengths and isn’t incredibly easy to gameplan against, he could end up a pro bowl level RT.

    • Mark Souza

      Great share, Hawk Eye.

      • Mark Souza

        I sure hope he’s right about Ifedi.

  15. CD

    One issue I am looking forward to finding out; what was with all the slow starts in the first half, year after year.

    If they don’t come out flat (Offense), then was it Cable/Bevell? If they continue to come out flat that be on Pete.

    Is it the players feeling ‘too comfortable’?

    • Hawk Eye

      I think that mainly falls on Bevel and Cable, they were the ones in charge. But cannot ignore Russell as part of the problem. He seems insecure at the start of games and overly confident at the end of games, when he always believes he can come back. That is part of the reason I think they need new voices for him, he needs to change his approach and understand that you can`t keeping getting into a hole to start a game.

      How about putting the other team in a hole to start? Like SB 48!

  16. icb12

    Is there anyway that seattle could free up enough cap space to take a serious run at Leveon Bell?
    With Kerryon Johnson as the backup?

    Especially if they do land Todd Haley… and Big Ben retires.. Is there a chance? Or total pipe dream?

    • Mac

      Pipe dream, if not just for cap space the fact that the Steelers are a playoff team. There’s something great about staying with the team that drafted you. Otherwise Cleveland would be in contention

      • peter

        But in Icb12’s scenario Big Ben may retire especially if they win the Superbowl….and if they don’t win Pittsburg is going to have to get real about rebuilding.

        I do think it’s a pipe dream but nearly every other year Seattle goes after a big time weapon.

    • peter

      you’d have to look at him wanting about 42 mil. Say 20 mil guaranteed. 4-5 years. I’m just basing this on Freeman’s last contract. That and Freeman is nowhere near Bell.

      Though PC or JS or both seem to love weapons and there’s not much more of a weapon available in Free Agency this year.

      To me they have to sign Macdougald and Maxwell. Shead. That’s about it.

      If they don’t pursue S.Richardson or P.Richardson then they may have the cap room. Obviously, JG goes in this scenario and maybe even Bennett is traded to relieve cap space plus an extra pick.

      One worry is the significance of Running backs carrying over 300 times in a season. More often they miss time the following season, Plus bell is already a back that has missed time.

      But he is young. Just being 26 next season. And his super dynamic. Plus just for the sake of a thought experiment instead of being married to the idea of a running back early, Seattle could potentially go after Bell, (I doubt it but wouldn’t mind it one bit) and use it’s draft capital on the ever necessary Oline picks, or get a great weapon on defense something that they have rarely been in the position for since Irvin. Or go completely off the wall and go after a WR like Sutton sicne the WR corps could use more help than I think people want to consider.

      • peter

        One more thing about my new pipe dream with Bell. If you think Seattle is in cap purgatory than Pittsburg is in cap hell. the have 2.6 million in cap space next year. In order to make room for Bell they would have to, not cut some players, but gut their team as that a lot of their players as cuts if they even did that would be huge piles of dead money.

        I’m half joking (but half not) bring on Bell and draft some defensive impact players!

        • Ishmael

          I’m kinda with you tbh man, he’d be the ultimate safety blanket for Wilson as well.

          This team needs pace in the worst possible way though, and I mean that across the park. Need to get faster at all levels. They should be looking at the Steelers WR corps and emulating that as much as possible.

          • peter

            It’s hard for me to look at WR’s. Mostly because Pittsburg year after year has drafted guys I thought would be good in Seattle.

            “Pace,” I love that term in other sports and I agree that seattle needs that in all kinds of spots.

      • vrtkolman

        Bell is only 26?? That’s crazy to me. It almost feels like he’s ready to decline soon based on his production the past few years.

        • Drew

          He has had quite a few injuries already

          • vrtkolman

            He’s had over 1500 touches in his career already. He’s already had a career’s worth of punishment on his body.

            • peter

              no doubt that’s a huge concern. I’d only consider it if seattle decides to take the medicine this year, draft hopefully a great player at 18 and waits two rounds to pick again. more than likely they won’t do that.

              I’m just not a huge fan of the dropping down just to drop down. more picks is fun. but if rather see seattle turn all their picks into 4 total between the 2nd and 3rd, than drop down and further down to get a bunch of fives and lower. they haven’t had a solid late round pick in forever (barring the last class which is still TBD.)

      • drewdawg11

        I’m curious as to why everyone is suddenly on the resign Maxwell bandwagon after one or two competent games? He was pretty awful for most of his time in Seattle this year, and basically most of his time since he left Seattle. We can resign him and pay him what, $2 million to be not that great? The cardinals game was his best game by far. Recency bias?

        • Patrick Toler

          I don’t think he was awful. I’d say he was average and finished strong. A big step down from Sherman though. I agree, $2M is about the right price. Hopefully his lack of success in Miami and Phili keeps the price down.

    • PowerPeanut

      Bell to Seattle would be my absolute biggest dream.

      • Kenny Sloth


  17. CharlieTheUnicorn

    (Rob referring to Payne) “He also flashed an assortment of pass rush moves and some surprising quickness I hadn’t noticed before. He showed a good get-off on several snaps to break into the backfield and impact the quarterback, there was evidence of a swim move, evidence of a pull-push to get off a block.”

    I got to watch portions of the CFB CG while working out. Essentially, Payne looked explosive…. not the biggest guy, but he had a game wrecker skill set. I was very impressed over all with him. On the interception.. active hands and football IQ to be in the right place at the right time.

    I have to say, the only other player that jumped out at me was the RB Sony Michel. Amazing lateral quickness and very active feet. I think the run along the sideline dancing by some defenders illustrated the point nicely. Showed nice hands to catch passes and yet was able to be efficient in the rushing attack. Not sure if he is a bell cow back, but he will fit the 3rd down back really well.

  18. Old but Slow

    The new hires in the coaching staff will have an impact on how the team moves forward, both in draft planning and in free agency. With that in mind, it would seem likely that new coaches will be signed shortly. They need to make interviews, and follow the Rooney rule, but hopefully there has been some ground work done to expedite the process, as in interviews set up, candidates evaluated and ranked, and some salesmanship in the coaching community.

    It could be that an opportunity might be dangled out there that our next OC might be on an inside track to replace Pete when he decides to hang it up. That may increase the temptation and bring us one of the bright lights.

    How soon will the Seahawks make the hires?

    • peter

      Old, I’d hope that they would make decisions soon. Seattle has a BIG off season and needs to get people together to evaluate the current team and start scouting for what the new form of this team will look like.

      • Gohawks5151

        I feel like they have someone in mind but if nothing comes out before the weekend i think its someone coaching in the playoffs. Or some college guy that requires a buyout. Either way it will take some time.

    • Tecmo Bowl

      Think the Hawks will have the positions filled before the end of the month.

      Agree that the coaching changes will have an impact on draft/FA evaluation. Reportedly the JS/PC have been more receptive giving their staff a voice in the draft process. It’ll be interesting to see the process play out.

  19. millhouse-serbia

    @volume 12

    Here in Belgrade I have a friend who follows CFB, and every year before draft he writes about interesting talent for him. He is really high on Jellel and he said almost exactly the same thing as you did.

    .He also thinks that Akrum Wadley is underated, and that he is 2 or 3rd round talent. He possesses great stop/start acceleration, he can stop completely and then speed up, same as Lesean McCoy. He doesn’t have elite top speed but its ok.
    He has patience to wait OL make a gap, but unlike the majority of small RBs he does not hide behind the OL..
    He has a great jump cut and great short area quickness. As soon as he sees a hole he becomes north/south RB.
    In space wadley is dadley. 😀
    He is extremely strong, regardless of his weight.
    He never stops his feet, he is ok as a pass catcher and bad as a blocker.

    This year numbers: 4,4 ypc, 1109 y and 10td. 353 passing y and 3td.
    Last year: 6.4zpc, 1081y and 10td. 315 passing yard and 3td.

    • schuemansky

      Just watched his highlights. WOW!
      Must have the most yac in the whole CFB. And that’s when they even get to touch him.
      I hope PCJS will consider RBs lighter than their prototype.

    • Tecmo Bowl

      Like Wadley alright in that early day 3 range. In a lesser class he might push into day 2, with a great combine. A similarly sized/style RB I like better is John Kelly. Take 8 minutes to watch his impressive Florida tape:

  20. Ishmael

    Is the Todd Haley chat actually coming from anywhere, or is it just something that people would like to see? I’d be interested to see what he could do with Wilson. Not an easy offense to run at all.

    • Rob Staton

      Haley was linked with a move to Dallas. It appears he might be leaving Pittsburgh.

      • Ishmael

        Cheers. Genuinely interested then. But that offense features a lot of stuff that Wilson hasn’t shown much ability to do yet, but maybe it’d be a change for the good for him – force him out of his shell a bit.

  21. LeoSharp

    Looking forward to seeing how Troy Fumagalli (6’6 248lbs TE Wisconsin) performs at the combine. He’s a quality blocker, makes big catches in big games and runs solid smart routes. Could be the ideal 2nd round pick after a trade down. Helps the run game, and is probably the best 2-way TE in the draft. That fits two of the teams biggest needs.

    • Sea Mode

      Hands are one of his best attributes, and he is missing a finger!

    • Tecmo Bowl

      2nd round seems a bit rich for Fumagalli, but I do like the player quite a bit and think he’d be a good fit. Agreed that he’s more NFL ready at TE than most prospects, as historically TE’s take more time to adjust to the NFL than other positions. It’s difficult to see the Hawks spend a high pick at TE, especially with the lack of day 2 picks atm.

      Like Stanford TE Dalton Schultz-one to keep an eye on as well. The TE class may lack top end talent, but has some quality mid round talent.

  22. vrtkolman

    There is some strange stuff going down in Carolina. Norv had agreed to terms as of yesterday, but flew back to his home today without signing a deal and now a scheduled press conference in Carolina has been cancelled. Norv would be bringing along his brother, son, and nephew on to his staff. Yikes.

    • vrtkolman

      Looks like it’s official – Norv to Panthers. RIP Cam.

    • Ishmael

      That’s like Carrol tbf. Football is one of the last industries where shameless nepotism is still acceptable

  23. Ed

    It’s really been a tight ship with the firings and the new candidates. Maybe that means more college coaches on the downlow, or they want someone still coaching DeFilliop (QB coach to OC) and Patterson (DL coach to DC).

    I hope they make some good hires, but to me, the biggest change for the better was getting new voices in the locker room. Maybe the Hawks find different bigger problems, but offense and offensive line have needed a change for a few years and it’s nice to finally get that

    • vrtkolman

      My guess is that they are waiting for the Eagles season to end in order to get on DeFillipo. Hopefully they can get a younger, bright offensive mind as OC/assistant head coach who would be a major candidate to replace Pete. Having someone like that to pair with Russell for the rest of his career would be fantastic for the team.

  24. ZHawk

    Bills just fired OC Rick Dennison. Comes from the Kubiak pedigree and was Denver’s OC when they won the Super Bowl in 2015. Could he be a potential replacement for TC if Carroll wants to stick to a zone scheme?

    • Hawk Eye

      he tried to force Taylor to do things he can’t, what does he do to Wilson?
      And I think Hawks have to get away from the zone scheme and let the O line play to their strengths also

  25. James

    I am an Alabama alum, and have watched every one of their games during the Saban era. Since Rob is looking at Da’Ron Payne, here goes:

    – Payne is the real deal, elite athleticism and elite effort. In the odd chance he is there at #18, you take him as fast as you can run to the podium. He is basically a combination of Sheldon Richardson, Jarran Reed and Naz Jones. Your DL would be top-5 for years.

    – I agree with Rob that Damien Harris was a perfect fit for the Seahawks running style. I am not sold on Chubb at #18, and count me among those who think Michel will be the better pro. With Carson and Prosise, I would not spend a R1 on any of these RBs. Go with the best available among: DE/Leo/OLB, DT, or S.

    • vrtkolman

      I kind of agree with you regarding the RBs. I love Ronald Jones but not at 18. I would sprint up to the podium for any of the following – Price/Davenport/Edmunds. Da’Ron Payne is flying up the mock draft boards, some even have him going top 10. I wouldn’t be opposed to Payne either if he’s there at 18. My dark horse pick at 18 would be Derwin James. I think he’s a superstar who had a down year after injury.

      • peter

        my out of the box player at 18-26 is Tim settle. I’ve been watching tons of his stuff and just flies for his size. plus he seems to have a real joy and enthusiasm for playing. he’s a freak show for his size. a great secondary helps the front and vice versa. personally I think seattle is closer to a great front than a great secondary.

    • AlaskaHawk

      I kind of agree with you. At #18 the Seahawks are guaranteed a starter barring injury. Why not spend it on the defense, which is the base for everything the Seahawks do anyway. Running back wise, just keep picking UDFA. One will turn out some day, and in the meantime they have a passable running attack with Carson and Davis. They are probably just as capable as other backs. Time and money should be spent on the offensive line this year.

      • peter

        Alaska, udfas? sometimes I wonder if you are joking around…!

        pc has never wanted a “passable,” run game since college. the late round, not later, but late round guys are Michael Turner and Arian foster who have been good/great. maybe sort of Alfred Morris. Collins for one season doesn’t cut it until he can do it even one more season.

        I say go defense as well. all things considered.

    • peter

      curious because I like Payne, but of him, naz jones, and reed how does seattle get some inside pass rush? I’m not talking about a Donald level production but something in the Clint McDonald healthy Jordan hill level.

      I’d love to have the most stout dline in the league but with avril possible retirement the team is left with 10 sacks from clark (ascending talent) and 8.5 sacks from Bennett (descending due to father time).

      on the note of Michel who I think is the best back for seattle as they are currently constructed; scrambles, outlet passes, making something out if nothing. does anyone have any concerns that he never produced more than Chubb? I get with those two there’s not really a feature back but Chubb had more than double the games of over a hundred yards and when you look at the carries not every game did Chubb have extremely, or even many, more carries than michel.

      • Kyle

        Because Chubb > Michel. Chubb got swarmed in the bowl game, but that is the best front in college football. He is still my number one if medical checks out. But if RJ2 is the pick, I wouldn’t be mad. I don’t want Michel as the hopes of seattle.

        • Kyle

          And by the hopes of seattle, I mean you would be saying carson as the feature back with Michel spelling him… I like carson, but he hasn’t been able to stay healthy for a season in the nfl, he wasn’t used as a workhorse in college, and I wouldn’t trust Michel as the lead dog if he went down. I could be wrong but, I would rather get chubb or rj2 to be the top dog with carson procise and mckissik backing him up. Davis… as well. 5 rb, hopefully davis can play fb on some plays?

    • 503Hawk

      Nice discussion on this thread.
      Whether the Hawks trade ET or not, and whether they trade down or not, I really think they will take BPA. As much as the run game needs fixing, I think they can get a difference making RB in the late first or early to mid second round.

    • Tecmo Bowl

      “Payne is the real deal, elite athleticism and elite effort.”

      Payne looked like a 1st rounder in the CFP-no doubt a big time athlete at his size/strength. I do question ‘elite effort’ though. Stats can be deceiving, but Payne only had 5 TFL’s in his 3 year Bama career. Stud So. DT line mate Reakwon Davis surpassed Payne’s career #’s, with 10 TFL’s 8.5 Sacks this year. DT Hand also had better statistical production than Payne. Man it’s tough evaluating Bama prospects-they’re too loaded with talent everywhere!

      • James

        In Nick Saban’s defense, the NT is asked to occupy two blockers, and free the DEs and OLBs for the rush. They do not rush the passer, per se. The results speak for themselves.

  26. Bill Bobaggins

    I’m not quite understanding the DeFilippo/McVay comparisons. I keep reading that DeFilippo might be the next McVay…big up and comer…young brilliant football mind. How are these comparisons being made? Is it simply off of what Philadelphia was able to do this past year?

    To me, there are vast differences between the two in terms of their career trajectories. First, McVay is 8 years younger than DeFilippo and has held MUCH higher roles in organizations and has moved MUCH faster through those organizations than DeFilippo has.

    DeFilippo has spent the last 17 years flopping back and forth between college and NFL, spending most of his years as a QB coach. McVay spent 9 years in the NFL moving quickly through the ranks into his current HC role.

    I keep hearing DeFilippo’s name as the “next guy.” This isn’t an argument against him…just curious where all of the hype around him is coming from.

    • Ishmael

      Probably because Wentz looked like a potato in his first season, then turned into an MVP candidate in this one. Who knows how much of that is down to DeFilippo though.

    • James

      As noted previously, my concern with DeFilippo is that he is a one-and-done. He is already under consideration for a head coaching job, and after what we assume would be a successful year as our OC, he would be gone. Then we would have to start all over again. I think we need an OC who would project to be here for 3 years at least.

  27. AlaskaHawk

    What do you think about taking a backup running back like LeGarrett Blount. He will probably be available for 1-2 million once Philly is knocked out of the playoffs. He averaged 4.4 yards per carry with them. Formerly a player for the New England Patriots. He is a healthy 250 pounder.

    • H

      If we get Defilippo as OC then maybe. If he wants to have a similar versatile backfield to what Philly had this year, Blount would be good place to start.
      We might even get some red zone rushing tds next year with him on the squad
      I imagine we would not be able to run zone concepts with him though

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