In today’s notes I’m going to cover the following:
— Reflecting on info on the top-10 and how it impacts Seattle
— Is Devin Lloyd an option?
— Hidden gems for day three
— Peter Schrager’s mock draft
— TEF updates
Reflecting on info on the top-10 and how it impacts Seattle
Tony Pauline, friend of the blog and the #1 draft insider in the business, revealed yesterday that the expectation in the league is that there will be a rush on offensive linemen and pass rushers in the top-10.
This is something we’ve been discussing and predicting for a number of weeks. I think we’re starting to see the first few picks taking shape and we can start to imagine the options for the Seahawks at #9.
Pauline thinks Jermaine Johnson ‘will go earlier than people think’. Increasingly it doesn’t look like he will last to #9. The problem is, it doesn’t look like Kayvon Thibodeaux, Aidan Hutchinson or Travon Walker will either. Tony suggested — again, as we’ve been predicting — that the four top pass rushers could go in the first six or seven picks.
When you break things down, you start to see why this is. The quarterbacks are not good enough to go in the top-10. The source I referred to yesterday, an experienced league executive, reiterated that he didn’t think any QB would go in the first ten picks.
The Jaguars and Lions will both take a pass rusher. The Texans, led by former Patriots exec Nick Caserio, will likely take the Belichickian route. That is, a player who stands a good chance of earning a second contract. Safe, dependable. The Belichick crowd also have good connections to Nick Saban. Evan Neal feels like a distinct possibility. If not, it could be another pass rusher.
The Jets will could go pass rusher, cornerback (Sauce Gardner) or offensive line. The Giants will take a lineman. And then there’s the Panthers.
Most of the mocks are pairing the Panthers with a quarterback. This is a mistake. David Tepper the owner has been pressuring his staff to aim high and land a superstar QB. He is frustrated by a series of investments in middling, low-ceiling quarterbacks.
How is drafting Kenny Pickett, for example, going to change that?
Selecting Malik Willis won’t do much good either, given he needs a year to feel his way into the league.
The other thing to consider is the future of Matt Rhule, which is dicey to say the least. Scott Fitterer the GM is going to want to think long term here — essentially beyond life with a Head Coach he inherited. He’ll also likely have his eye on the 2023 quarterbacks.
With no day two picks the Panthers also need to fill out there board. I would say it’s incredibly likely Carolina will trade down and then take an offensive lineman. Failing that, they’ll probably take their top ranked available lineman at #6.
The Giants are then left to decide between a pass rusher (if any remain) or a cornerback (Sauce Gardner). They could also trade out of this spot. Then Atlanta. They also need a pass rusher badly but if none remain, they will either go BPA (they might see that as Gardner) or they’ll take a receiver.
I think it means the following players won’t be available to the Seahawks when they’re on the clock:
Travon Walker
Aidan Hutchinson
Kayvon Thibodeaux
Jermaine Johnson
Evan Neal
Ikem Ekwonu
Sauce Gardner
The other player could be Charles Cross or it could be a receiver such as Garrett Wilson. A wildcard could be someone moving up to take Trevor Penning — or a team like the Panthers preferring Penning over Cross (not out of the question at all).
This would be my best guess, for what it’s worth.
If this is accurate — and we don’t have too long to wait and find out — the Seahawks would be left (I think) choosing between taking Derek Stingley Jr at #9 or finding a deal to trade down.
I think there would be teams willing to move up. The Jets could take a receiver or an offensive lineman at #10. The Ravens and Chargers are supposedly focussing in on the offensive tackles. The Eagles and Saints are said to be targeting receivers.
Trading down could be appealing for two reasons. Firstly, you acquire more stock in a deep draft. Secondly, you have more ammunition to move up from #40. The Seahawks have a history of trading up in the round two area. Jarran Reed, D.K. Metcalf and Darrell Taylor all involved moves up the board.
I can well imagine a similar thing occurring this year. As noted a lot recently, it could be for Tyler Linderbaum. It could be for a quarterback.
Moving down from #9 makes this plausible. It’s also possible the Seahawks could move down from #9 to around #14 and still land Stingley Jr.
According to Pauline, the Vikings are targeting Trent McDuffie in round one and are willing to move down then select him. Provided Washington and Houston didn’t select Stingley Jr, he could be available for Seattle even after a small move down.
It feels very much like the Seahawks want a player who can start quickly and have an impact with their top pick. Stingley Jr would fit that bill. I think Zion Johnson would too.
As you move down, though, I think it’s important to wonder who else could fit into that role. I’m going to talk about Devin Lloyd in a bit. Whether they’d take him in round one is open to debate but certainly there’s a line of thought that he is day-one ready, a tone-setter and a leader with big production. Some people like George Karlaftis a lot more than I do. My source suggested to me that he’s viewed by some in the NFL as essentially Aidan Hutchinson just available a lot later. For what it’s worth, they had the exact same pass rush win percentage in 2021 (25.4%).
There’s also Georgia’s defensive tackle pairing and some others. As I said yesterday, there’s still some admiration for Clemson’s Andrew Booth despite his lack of testing impacting his stock.
The reason I think Stingley Jr will be appealing is because it’s a shot for greatness. It’s a chance to bring someone in with the potential to be one of the best at his position. There are going to be other good players available but do they have that ceiling?
Yet we all know this isn’t a team that has invested a lot of draft stock in the cornerback position. Adding someone who can bolster the front seven on defense or upgrade the offensive line might be more appealing. But I think they’d have to fit what the Seahawks are wanting to create and they’d have to produce a level of physical toughness that this team sought when it invested its other high picks in 2010 (Okung, Thomas) and 2012 (Irvin).
Is Devin Lloyd an option?
Bucky Brooks recently posted a mock with Lloyd at #9 and my initial reaction was to dismiss it and move on. However, listening to Jake Heaps on 710 Seattle Sports yesterday triggered a thought and made me think — I need to give this more attention.
Firstly, Lloyd isn’t just a typical middle linebacker. He had snaps at Utah where he rushed the edge better than some of the pass rushers in this class. His dip, lean and bend around the corner is surprisingly impressive.
When I was speaking to the source yesterday who generously shared some views on Derek Stingley Jr, I did ask about linebackers too. The feeling is Lloyd will go in round one and can play outside or inside linebacker. He’s not likely to be a full-time EDGE but it’s not beyond the realms of possibility a creative defense could use him as a chess piece.
For example — in Seattle he technically could play next to Jordyn Brooks on early downs then shift outside for pass rushing snaps. It could enable you to bring another defensive back on to the field and disguise what Lloyd’s going to do — drop or rush.
I do think the Seahawks will have some respect and time for Lloyd. He’s very much an alpha and he has 33 inch arms. His production is impressive (22.5 TFL’s and eight sacks in 2021). He flies around the field, makes plays, has been a vital team leader for Utah and will bring a level of seriousness and aggression to a defense.
He jumped a 35 inch vertical and a 10-6 broad at the combine. His forty was a 4.66.
I wanted to note this because you never know with the Seahawks. I don’t think it’s a preposterous suggestion and certainly some people rank Lloyd among the best players in the draft. Tony Pauline has him at #11 on his big board. He’s #12 on Daniel Jeremiah’s board.
If they move down from #9, perhaps Lloyd could be a possibility? He’s too much of an aggressive, physical, productive, tone-setting player to rule out completely.
Hidden gems for day three
Here are a group of players who might appeal to the Seahawks but aren’t generating much interest online. I’ve tried to match traits and trends along with tape study.
Matt Henningsen (DT, Wisconsin)
Ideally sized to play 3-4 end, Henningsen has the kind of profile Seattle has tended to like. He’s 6-3 and 290lbs with 33 1/8 inch arms. He ran a remarkable 4.29 short shuttle at the Badgers’ pro-day, a 7.19 three cone and then added a 37.5 inch vertical and a 9-11 broad jump. This is a special athletic profile on a player who flashed gritty play and an ability to disrupt.
Kevin Harris (RB, South Carolina)
A battering ram of a running back who loves nothing more than to absorb contact and drive through tackles. He fits the Seahawks in terms of size (5-10, 222lbs) and has the explosive testing they target at the position (37.5 inch vertical, 10-3 broad jump). If they miss out on a player like Dameon Pierce, Harris could be a viable alternative.
Devin Harper (LB, Oklahoma State)
A deep linebacker class gets deeper. Harper lacks length (sub-32 inch arms) and he’s only 6-0 and 234lbs. Yet on tape he plays with a degree of competitive spirit and his pro-day testing is worth noting. He ran a 4.03 short shuttle which is right up Seattle’s street. He also added a 40.5 inch vertical and a 4.50 forty.
Kyron Johnson (DE, Kansas)
Johnson caught the eye at the Senior Bowl when he had handsome wins against Trevor Penning and Abraham Lucas. Both reps were embarrassing for the tackles — with the much smaller Johnson bulldozing the pair on both occasions. At pro-day he ran a 4.40 forty and a 6.98 three cone before jumping a 39.5 inch vertical and a 10-0 broad. He’s a highly explosive, fast and powerful specialist rusher who could be a very useful rotational cog. He has short arms though, which could be an issue.
Daniel Imatorbhebhe (TE, Kansas State)
He’s had a nomadic college career — going from Florida to USC and then to Kansas State. As a late round or UDFA flier though — there’s some potential here. On tape he’s shown he can find a way to make big plays downfield by escaping coverage and squirting through to the second level. He ran a 7.05 three-cone (anything quicker than a 7.10 tends to get Seattle’s attention). He also has very useful 34 inch arms.
Devin Cochran (T, Georgia Tech)
A former Vanderbilt player, Cochran has inconsistent tape with flashes in the run game providing some hope for the future. He has great size and length (6-7, 306lbs, 35.5 inch arms) and he’ll appeal to teams seeking a project tackle. He’s a 2.93 TEF-tester let down by his bench press — which isn’t a surprise given his length. He’s one to watch for the later rounds.
Nolan Turner (S, Clemson)
His tape is so-so but there’s athletic potential to be had here and perhaps some special teams value. Turner ran a 4.42 forty at pro-day, jumped a 37.5 inch vertical and a 10-2 broad. He says he played hurt last year which could explain his fairly unspectacular play. With a profile like this though, teams will be more than happy to take a closer look as an undrafted free agent.
Micah McFadden (LB, Indiana)
Like a lot of teams the Seahawks take special teams very seriously and McFadden is a core special teamer. He only did the bench press at the combine but managed to produce a 4.15 short shuttle at pro-day and a 6.88 three-cone. A 35 inch vertical and 9-10 broad jump are in the ‘good not great’ category but as a late round flier or UDFA he will have some value and appeal.
Malcolm Rodriguez (LB, Oklahoma State)
Rodriguez is one of those players who does a lot right he just doesn’t look the part. At 5-11 and 236lbs with short 30 3/8 inch arms he has size limitations that will temper his stock. Yet a 39.5 inch vertical at the combine, a 10-0 broad jump at pro-day plus a 4.13 short shuttle will surely intrigue teams enough for him to get a shot later on.
Master Teague (RB, Ohio State)
Once considered a potential hot NFL prospect, Teague’s career at Ohio State never took off. He’s unlikely to be drafted but his physical profile is impressive — 221lbs, 4.47 forty, 36 inch vertical, 10-11 broad. Given his once vaunted stock, someone will bring him in for a camp.
Peter Schrager’s mock draft
Schrager loves to mention how many contacts he has in the NFL and to be fair, it has paid dividends for him at times. In 2020 he suddenly mocked Darrell Taylor to the Seahawks in round one the day before the draft. It’s clear he had some info and as we came to learn, it very nearly came true.
Thus, I think it’s important to look at his first mock draft published today.
I think seven of the first eight picks players taken will be off the board when Seattle’s on the clock at #9. The one I disagree with is Kenny Pickett. As mentioned earlier, I don’t think Carolina GM Scott Fitterer will take a QB at #6 and I don’t think any QB’s will go in the top-10.
Neither do I agree with his pick for the Seahawks at #9. I just don’t see this team picking an air-raid left tackle in the top-10 who jumped a 26 inch vertical at the combine and had average agility testing. I think it’d be very surprising to see a not particularly athletic or explosive offensive lineman drafted by this team that early.
I think this scenario is similar to the one mentioned earlier in this notes article — if they weren’t inclined to take Derek Stingley Jr then I think they would trade down.
Also, as discussed earlier, Schrager has the Seahawks moving up from #40 to get back into round one. I think the prospect of trading down from #9 then moving back into the first frame is extremely viable — either for a quarterback (Schrager’s suggestion) or for Tyler Linderbaum (who Schrager has falling out of round one).
The Seahawks do a deal with Kansas City and take Matt Corral:
“Corral is a Long Beach Poly (California) kid who played for Lane Kiffin at Ole Miss. Think Pete Carroll knows a thing or two about those programs? I can see Corral suiting up for Seattle.”
It does make sense to be fair. As we’ve noted a lot already, Carroll and the Kiffin’s are very close. They drafted Alex McGough from Lane’s program at Florida Atlantic. Corral has a lot of the things they like — including competitive spirit, a strong arm and mobility.
I’d still rather the Seahawks build up their roster and push the QB situation into 2023. And if I had to guess, I think they will. Three picks in the top-41 is a great opportunity to improve on both sides of the ball. In round three, I would expect them to add a running back.
It’s still a mock worth noting. There’s certainly potential for the Seahawks to move around the board to get the players they want.
TEF updates
The vast majority of the offensive linemen didn’t bench press at the combine and several didn’t do the vertical and/or broad jump. Here’s an updated TEF list. The players in green improved their score, the players in red reduced their score after pro-day testing. Anything above or around 3.00 is impressive in terms of explosive traits.
Confirmed TEF scores
Cole Strange — 3.42
Bernhard Raimann — 3.37
Cam Jurgens — 3.34
Zion Johnson — 3.33
Zach Tom — 3.33
Matt Waletzko — 3.15
Trevor Penning — 3.03
Kellen Diesch — 3.03
Ja’Tyre Carter — 2.98
Nick Zakelj — 2.98
Abraham Lucas — 2.97
Alec Lindstrom — 2.95
Sean Rhyan — 2.95
Marcus McKethan — 2.94
Andrew Rupcich — 2.93
Luke Fortner — 2.93
Ickey Ekonwu — 2.90
Chris Paul — 2.86
Charles Cross — 2.84
Braxton Jones — 2.83
Spencer Burford — 2.83
Dawson Deaton — 2.82
Dohnovan West — 2.80
Dylan Parham — 2.78
Nicholas Petit-Frere — 2.74
Tyler Smith — 2.73
Jamaree Salyer — 2.67
Myron Cunningham — 2.66
Justin Shaffer — 2.65
Cordell Volson — 2.63
Joshua Ezeudu — 2.58
Max Mitchell — 2.53
Lecitus Smith — 2.52
Daniel Faalele — 2.50
Zach Thomas — 2.48
Kenyon Green — 2.46
Cade Mays — 2.46
Obinna Eze — 2.45
Bill Dunkle — 2.45
Andrew Steuber — 2.27
Projected 2022 TEF scores
Logan Bruss — 3.08
Luke Wattenburg — 3.06
Chasen Hines — 2.95
Ja’Tyre Carter — 2.93
Austin Deculus — 2.91
Blaise Andries — 2.89
Luke Tenuta — 2.69
Thayer Munford — 2.57
Marquis Hayes — 2.56
Vederian Lowe — 2.56
Darian Kinnard — 2.54
Tyrese Robinson — 2.48
Ed Ingram — 2.47
If you missed my appearance on 710 Seattle Sports with Jake & Stacy yesterday, check it out here:
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Speaking of day three targets, I wonder if you’ve looked at Lucas’s teammate Jaylen Watson.
32 inch arms but comes in a bit short on wingspan. Explosive, with a 11’0 broad jump and 38 inch vertical, 4.5 fyd at combine with a 1.55 split. A bit iffy on the agility (7.15 & 4.22).
Supposed to be a leader in the locker room and has good intangibles, physical player. Standard “stiff hips” that you see in a lot of Seattle DBs scouting reports pre 2021.
Good backstory too, unrecruited out of HS, went to JC ball. Became a top recruit, signed with USC, didn’t qualify, worked at Wendy’s while upping his grades to straight As and got another shot with State.
I have and have him rated too highly to be a hidden gem.
Good player.
I’m intrigued about a couple of Wisconsin DBs. They both might sneak into getting drafted but I would be interested in them as UDFA. Both tested with a sub 4.4 and near 40 in. verticals.
1) Faion Hicks: Short, quick, fast. Was outside/inside as a CB at UW but he’s probably your classic slot guy. Not that much film on him but he looks really sticky in coverage.
2) Scott Nelson: Was a FS at UW. Super fast but the injury bug caught up with him a lot in college. Not a thumper but he just looks like a football player.
I am particularly missing John Clayton today.
‘Imitator Bay Bee’
Immature baby
I’m a matador baby
“Danny I’m A Motor Baby is someone to keep an eye on in the later rounds.”
RIP
Regarding the likely worst case scenario described above, I am sure this has been brought up and likely rebuffed already, but here we go. Why wouldn’t Seattle propose a trade with Carolina? Secure your edge priority by trading up to #6, while Carolina secures another couple picks. Too rich? Would #9, #40, and a future mid rounder get it done?
Please god no. Way too expensive.
Maybe if there was a quarterback you were confident in selecting, but this isn’t the year for that.
According to the trade value chart someone sent around previously, as high as #3 could be had for a #9 + 40/41. Clearly this is subject to demand on the day.
Id be fully support of this to get JJ or Thibs. Absolutely hate the yearly revolving door of veteran stop gaps to attempt to fix the pass rush – Mayowa, Hyder, Irvin, Moore, Dunlap and even Clowney etc
Plan B might be to take Stingley & focus in on Ojabo or Mafe later in R1/2 depending on where they go.
Hearing buzz around these parts on Chad Muma being a bit of a late R2 sleeper at LB. I know you have him on your board there so not surprising. Such an impressive group of linebackers. I think I’ll cry if we don’t draft one inside 60.
Thanks for all the hard work
Great article exactly questions i had regarding draft. I still suspect they way this off season has pan out, there will lot of surprises in top 10. I understand there is not top QB but team tends to value the position and risk the high pick. I just wish Hawks is not that one of the team. Also I hope whatever players we pick like atleast top 3 should one we know is good (as per SDB blog). Will be very nervous if it is typical hawks draft.
Exciting times to say the least. Let Russ burn – so we can have one/two high draft pick next year.
LB out of Utah sounds too familiar haha
I’m very gun shy about defensive players from Utah after the apparent whiff on Blair
Ditto for Cody Barton, who has at least seen the field and made some tackles. Lloyd looks solid, but I would rather the Hawks draft Tindall or Chenal outside the 1st.
Lots of centre options judging by that TEF list, and that’s before we even get to Linderbaum. Strange, Tom, Lindstrom, Fortner, Wattenburg all hitting or very close to that 3.00 mark. A number of them projected as Day 3 picks too. Which one(s) would interest the Seahawks the most do you think, Rob?
Hey Rob, do you have TEF figures for Cam Jurgens for reference? He’s definitely one of the favorites I’m pulling for as a possible foundational Hawk OL following your prior pieces about him and watching his nastiness on tape on youtube. Looks like at the combine he ran a 4.92- 40 yd + 25 bench reps but DNP in other drills.
I looked up and saw his Nebraska pro day he had a 33″ vert, 9′-11″ broad, 3 cone 7.19, and short shuttle of 4.49. Seems like those would stack up to an elite type TEF.
His testing metrics and tape would have me happy to see them opt for him in Round 2, maybe as the first C selected. Would be disappointed to not leave this draft without one of either Jurgens, Linderbaum, or Strange for future starting C.
Yes — I forgot to add Jurgens. I will put him in. 3.34 TEF.
Ouch, Chargers… 😬
The Chargers are an after thought in LA. Dean Spanos is an idiot and though I get that they couldn’t get a stadium deal done in San Diego, they never should’ve gone to LA. They could’ve had Vegas and I think Spanos got worked by Mark Davis. By the way, I lived in San Diego from ’89 to ’02 and saw how the Spanos family does things up close. They are nit the sharpest tacks on the bulletin board.
I would go Stingley all day at 9 if it played out like that. If he can be a true shut down it gives you so much flexibility on defense. You can put him on an island and slide Diggs further to the other side. Gives the pass rushers more time to get to QB, allows Adams to roam where he wants. He could be a game changer.
We better not use another !st round pick on a ILb. When we face a lot of 3 WR sets, more than likely Brooks or Llyod is coming off the field. Yeah, Llyod’s a good player, but probably not an upgrade to Brooks. Brooks is a big hitter as well, as is Darrell Taylor.
Any athletic linebacker or SS can get to the QB when the d-coordinator dials up pressure.
As I said in the piece, the idea of taking Lloyd would probably be to have him rush the passer on third down.
Yeah, that’s an option. But Jordyn Brooks is just as explosive if not more so than Lloyd, so why not rush Brooks? Brooks had 20 tackles for loss in 11 games his final year. Lloyd had 22 tackles for loss in 14 games his final year.
Because Lloyd has shown an ability to rush the edge and Brooks has not
I saw a lot of Lloyd being unblocked blitzing from the edge. Lloyd is not a refined pass rusher by any means. IMO Lloyd is not the same level of athlete as Micha Parsons or Brooks.
Also, Brooks has not shown the ability to rush from the edge, because he hasn’t been put in position by his coaches to do it. A coaches scheming can make a player more productive or be the best version of themselves…Jamal Adams is the perfect example.
I’d argue that Brooks it better getting off blocks, is a bigger hitter, has better initial quickness, and better overall speed. If he was given the opportunity to rush from the outside, I think he would be just as good or if not better at getting after the QB than Lloyd.
IMO we are good at MLB, our resources would be better spent elsewhere.
I don’t get the point of this comment. It feels like you’re arguing for the sake of it.
I never said he was the same level of athlete as Parsons. Or that there aren’t ‘unblocked’ blitzes (it’s a fricking blitz mate, by definition you’re going to be unblocked on blitzes as the extra man).
What I have said is there are snaps on tape where he bends the arc, straightens and explodes to the quarterback better than some of the pass rushers in this class.
That’s an indisputable fact. And because he can do that, he can have an impact outside.
Like I said, a few of your comments feel like they’re designed to argue for the sake of it.
Imagine a 3-4 with Nwosu, Brooks, Lloyd and Taylor as the LBers?
Q-Jeff and Shelby Harris as the 3-4 DEs?
Lots of versatility and pass rushing in that alignment.
Nwosu is just a guy. Not a player that other teams fear.
Devin Lloyd is like that LB in madden that all of a sudden jumps up 10 feet and picks a pass thrown in-between the hashes and you think… that’s impossible but he’s literally doing it (crazy plays )consistently.
Watching some of his interceptions at the LOS where he tips the ball to himself are impressive. He plays kind of like Micah parsons but obviously does not have the same speed.
I brought up Lloyd a couple of weeks ago. He is a 4 down player. Very good in coverage. He can flip the field in an instant. Great hand use @ the line of scrimmage, very good at sifting thru traffic. Instincts off the chart. Very good @ reading his keys and sniffing out screens. Plays way faster than his timed 40. Been watching him for 3 years and he has always been the best player on the field. GAME CHANGER!!!
Gee do I like Devin Lloyd or what….
IMO I can see the draft playing out this way…
Jags #1 (DE) Adian Hutchinson
Lions #2 (DE) Jermaine Johnson…Johnson is the perfect 4-3 defensive end for the Lions new 4-3 D.
Texans #3 (CB) Sauce Gardner….Clean prospect, elite size, great athlete, proven production.
Jets #4 (CB) Dereck Stingley…May have been bored the last two years at LSU, but he is elite with his ball skills, and elite at mirroring WRs.
Giants #5 (LT) Charles Cross…Considered the best pass blocker in the draft.
Panthers #6 (OG) Zion Johnson…Probably the best o-line prospect in the draft. Gold Jacket!
Giants #7 (MLB) Devin Lloyd…Giants get a team leader and all-around good MLB.
Falcons #8 (WR) Christian Watson…Falcons go for what they consider best player available (got Metcalf on their mind.)
Seahawks #9 (OLB) Travon Walker…Pete has Walker drop to 265 lbs, and gets an elite generational OLB.
https://youtu.be/yCqP6rkgGbw
I’ve also seen opinions of Walker being a low 1sr round prospect. So, it’s defiantly open for debate.
Having Evan Neal and Ikem Ekwonu out of the top 10 seems really odd to me.
No Thibodeaux?! Laughable…
I don’t know about Thibodeaux. There’s Internet rumors that there may be off field concerns. Having lived in Eugene the university of Oregon’s own police department was often going through issues so we’ll see if anything comes of that.
Then there’s the part that he hasn’t really done himself many favors in intercuews dring the pre-draft process.
He also says he’s the new the next Jadeveon Clowney. Cosell agrees and says he plays like Clowney. I didn’t watch Clowney coming out so I don’t know. All I remember is everyone watched him blow up the ball carrier and seemed to think he was the second coming of something at the time. Clowney’s certainly no bust but he’s not nearly as good as his draft spot warranted.
Read Peter’s take on Thibodeaux. I have the same concerns about Tibs that Peter has. Which is why I think he could fall to #9 or early teens.
And no Thibodeuax?
This is insanity in the membranity.
Both Neal and Ekwonu seem to be overrated. Neal doesn’t excel at anything, he didn’t test well, Rob talking about him being a guard. Ikem is considered a work in progress as a pass blocker, he also is having to kick inside to guard.
Then there is Zion Johnson whom is considered a middle of the 1st prospect, and is being compared to All-Pro guard Quinton Nelson. Nelson was the 6th overall pick in the 1st round.
Neal and Ekwonu will go in the top six
That is a lock
Zion will go in the top 21
The high end of the o-line class seems really flawed as compared to other years.
My take is, why would a rational GM draft Neal, or Ekwonu over Johnson if they think Johnson is the best guard prospect? Johson being compared to an All-Pro player, while the other two are more of a project at other positions.
Look how big Stingley Jr is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOPR-jN-ZI0
People don’t realise and think he’s small. The guy is built like a bloody welterweight boxer.
Incredible athlete.
I expected him to be more of a strider with his long legs, but he cycles them well and turns his hips well for his length too- smooth/quick in and out.
I agree with Hoggs41 above, I want Stingley for the Hawks if he’s there. Heard Peter King say a younger but not wet behind the ears NFL coach told him Stingley has the best feet of any CB he’s ever seen, Please don’t screw this up PCJS. If he’s there, just draft him.
Almost reminds me of OBJ. A bit smaller though.
Also, Seahawks scout at 0:50 looking like he’s about to get left hanging on the handshake…
Yeah, and he turns and runs very well… amazing agility.
And he can catch!
Watched a bunch of o-line prospects recently and I came away with Penning being the most fun to watch but likely a penalty machine…but reminds me a lot of Breno Giacomini and I really did appreciate what he brought to the line.
Zion Johnson I felt was the best overall prospect. Tyler Smith had awful hand placement and I’m surprised he isn’t called for holding on every other play. Kenyon Green is the best run-blocker, IMO, and has great size…but some bad testing results. Hell of a player though and really stood out to me.
I’ve heard that the Seahawks have interest in Georgia LT Jamaree Salyer, I imagine to play G because he’s built like one. My impression was that he’s excellent when engaged but gets a bit lost in space. Bit of a lumberer, seems more a Solari-type. He’s an immovable object, though, so there’s that.
I have always thought plan A should be take a pass rusher. Johnson, Walker Thibodeaux.
With Stingley healthy and seemingly a potential option I am leaning that way instead. I think there will be pass rushers available in Rd 2 /3 but there will not be any impact shut down corners. Unless Thibodeaux is available then I hope the Hawks nab Stingley who has legit All Pro potential.
New podcast just posted on all of the platforms
George Karlaftis looks like a bully out there. Not much bend, but he’s a heck of a football player. I don’t think the Hawks can go wrong with that first pick if it’s between JJ, Thib, Karlaftis, Stingley, or even Lloyd. I think all of them will be good in their own right.
https://youtu.be/Z3Ssbr5oU9M (9 min Karlaftis highlight video)
Congrats on topping 3,000 subs
I wish it was more. Aren’t any other Seahawks channels interviewing players and people like McCloughan and Florio.
Only a matter of time
100% it’ll get there. Between 710 spots and player/coach interviews it’s been hard to beat!
Would love to get back to more player profiles too. It’d be great to have easily accessed info again with the new website, I’ve had to search a couple times to find the horizontal draft board for example. Always felt a website with good resources helps draw other folks in.
Ditto for me too. Patience grasshopper, it’ll happen.
Hey Rob. I think you’ll do just fine in short order. Because a lot of those folks aren’t getting broadcast on radio. Just keep chipping away.
I try to take other stuff here and there. And there are some really good, smooth presenters. But information matters. People are starving for information driven content. I know everytime you run a “Rebuild,” podcast I wish it were either longer or more often.
An example of when I turn off other people’s stuff even if it’s going okay. Recently watched a rambling, slightly fun if a bit shambolic three person panel. One if the talking headswho I gather is some sort of sports writer commented when discussing this qb class: “all I want to see is a tall qb going forward…” chortled a bit and did a bit of a victory lap with their comment as if the nailed it. The problem is…..why?…..why is that the thing that you’re looking for over everything else? No reason or explanation.
At least with you you give all these data points and connectivity to rationalize the different scenarios.
Could Zion Johnson be the next Steve Hutchison? If yes, Seahawks should run to the podium to get him if he’s available.
Good piece Rob. I know you didn’t like the comparison of Nakobe Dean being a potential Bobby replacement; does seems like Lloyd maybe fits a closer profile with his combo of speed and ability as a blitzer?
Rob, I so, so agreed with your comment on the leadership potential that Shelby Harris brings to the table. I was really impressed by the man as I watched your interview with him.
Then I add to that the micced up segment I watched with Al Wood and think of the veteran gravitas those two will bring to the D as they toil side by side in the trenches.
As I’ve noted before, you are absolutely killing it this off-season. Keep it up!
I am starting to warm to Devin Lloyd. At first I brushed him off. But that was before I found out the guy had 22 TFLs. It appears that Lloyd is a playmaker. One thing I like about Derek Stingley Jr is the guy seems confident/cocky. He has the attitude that he is good and he knows it.
Between Jermaine Johnson, Derek Stingley Jr and Devin Lloyd. I am taking Johnson. But it is highly unlikely he will not be there #9. Brock Huard talked about trading down to the mid-teens and then selecting Lloyd. Personally if the Hawks want Lloyd they better take him at #9. Those 22 TFLs are going to get the attention of GMs.
On Tony Pauline’s big board he has Johnson at #9. Lloyd at #11 and Stingley Jr. at #13 Anyone of those three will work. I think Stingley would love the challenge to cover receivers the caliber of Cooper Kupp. But having the flexibility that Lloyd gives you. Might be the Seahawks best fit.
glad to hear your take on Kevin Harris, and the Devin Loyd idea is intriguing. one never knows with the Seahawks, but I’d wager that after 14 years (?) you know them just as well as anyone, Rob. incredible. so thankful for this site and the community it has built. keep up the great work!
Derek Stingley is such a great name for a cornerback. With that name you know he has to be good. lol
As for Devin Lloyd, he’s a great player. If you are worried about him being a bust because of Marquis Blair and Cody Barton, let me tell you he Lloyd was far, far more impactful and important on the UTAH defense than either of those players. I think Lloyd could be somewhat a Micah Parsons type player in the pros.
Rob, I probably missed this somewhere, but what is it about Penning that makes you think Seattle won’t be interested? Granted, highlights, but when i watch him on youtube clips he looks ferocious and athletic.
Love the blog. It’s a daily stop for me. This Wilson trade was amazing just for the additional content alone that we’re being treated to. Thank you.
I didn’t say they won’t be interested
I think it would be a poor pick for Seattle based on how much technical work he requires
The aim with that top pick should be to get someone who can contribute in year one. Penning needs time and a fair bit of development. I’d fear for him being the player framed as starting the new era.
“It feels very much like the Seahawks want a player who can start quickly and have an impact with their top pick. Stingley Jr would fit that bill.”
While that sounds good on paper the reality is the Seahawks medical team has been suspect when it comes to top players drafted;
2021 – Eskridge, toe injury, missed most of camp and preseason. Minimal impact first season. Blame the concussion but missing all that time doesn’t leave a rookie prepared for NFL punishment.
2020 – Darrell Taylor – PUP list, wasted season
2019 – LJ Collier –
2018 – Penny
Hit and miss last two seasons at LSU, Mediocre combine participation, lisfranc injury = lots of red flags. Ideally trade back and take Wyatt, then trade up and take Mafe. And with your remaining 2nd grab a stud linebacker. Now you have a flexible defense that can make life miserable for the QB.
Mediocre combine participation? He was injured.
The injury needs looking into but I think it’s a stretch to point to that as a major red flag.
As were Eskridge and Taylor. The point remains Seattle does not have a good historyof getting first year production out of their top picks going back awhile.
I would assume every team “wants a player who can start quickly and have an impact with their top pick” but that hasn’t proven to be the case with Seattle so color me hesitant with this staff.
Could Stingley be a great corner? Sure.
What were Eskridge and Taylor? What is that a reply too?
I think you’re going a bit OTT here
I would point out that the Seahawks looked at the big picture and obviously felt the injuries were not going to be chronic. Sure, the players you mentioned missed time to heal. Look at Eskridge and Taylor now. They are healthy. They will be cornerstones. The Seahawks made the right call on them.
Taylor i’ll agree. But it remains to be seen about Eskridge. Wr’s kind be strange to predict. Coupled with what I would still call an uncertain QB situation and it might be a good pick but one that doesn’t feel like a great pick.
Peter, I was just referring to the medical standpoint of things. I agree that it remains to be seen as far as Eskridge the player
Ah got it.
“The Seahawks looked at the big picture…..” absolutely possible and they felt a year down the road these players would be healthy and impactful. Completely agree that was possible. But Robs reporting was they want some impactful from day 1 and I’m skeptical with this staff. I’m fine with that line of thinking if they think Stingley could be 100% go the next year similar to Eskridge and Taylor and be a major impact player.
Which is why I hope they target Michigan OLB/DE David Ojabo.
Here’s a list compiled on reddit of players who’ve had Lisfranc injuries.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/b95put/what_current_and_past_players_have_had_lisfranc/
I’m with bv eburg on this one. I don’t necessarily trust the Seahawks medical staff to get this one right, or believe that it’s entirely predictable before the draft.
What exactly does that list prove?
It’s a few names, some of players who had finished their peak. And players like Julio Jones had career best years after suffering it.
Rob,
Bottom line, are you confident in this medical staff?
I’m neither confident or not confident.
I know that most of the league let D.K. Metcalf drop to round two because he nearly had to retire in 2018 due to a neck injury. That worked out OK…
I wish I could find the link but a couple of days ago I was watching the NFL Network. Jeremiah & Brooks are doing daily shows about the draft. Every day there is always someone else on the show too.
They were talking about Matt Corral & current comps in the NFL. Brian Baldinger said Corral reminds him of Baker Mayfield (with not quite as strong an arm). He seemed high on him but the comparison left me a little underwhelmed.
Even if the 2nd round is the earliest the Hawks think about drafting a QB, it still just doesn’t seem like good value. Especially on a team with so many holes. Yes, the QB spot being one, but I sure hope the first three picks are for non-QB’s.
Just read an article on ESPN about the draft.
My word, this is some rubbish being spouted about this draft. In particular on the quarterbacks.
It’s certainly makes one think anything can happen on draft day. Not sure what GMs are thinking
Mock drafts have turned into a pure entertainment exercise to generate clicks.
Several in the field have no business doing mock drafts. What business does a beat reporter who rarely displays good critical and analytical thinking skills in their articles or press conferences with the leadership have putting a mock draft together?
There’s no accountability for them either. I’m Daniel Jeremiah goes 0-32 on his mock, there’s no public tar and feathering. If Kiper has 2 QBs top ten and they go R2, no big deal.
This is true.
Surely being a ‘draft expert’ warrants some analysis of their expertise?
Or are they ‘draft fake news-ers’ just feeding whatever info their buddies want out there?
Mel Kiper is not afraid to give a report card on the NFL teams after the draft. Someone should give Mel Kiper a grade. Or give Kiper a report card.
Search Youtube. There’s plenty of reviews of Kiper.
ESPN’s Maurice Jones-Drew has the most ridiculous/entertaining mock drafts. Dude is always hella random and coming out of left field with his mocks.
ESPN also ran a TV piece today called: ‘Best player you haven’t heard of’
Matt Miller’s choice was little known pass rusher… Boye Mafe
Come on.
Wasn’t Mafe the guy that DJ hadn’t identified until the Senior Bowl?
That would totally make sense. Hey if their ‘draft expert’ hadn’t heard of the guy until February of his draft year, why would anyone else??
Had an odd thought and found a disturbing comp for Charles Cross ..
Cross: 6’5″ 307 34 1/2″ arms
4.95 40 dash, 26″ vert 7.88 3 cone 4.61 short shuttle
Jamarco Jones: 6’4″ 299 35 1/8″ arms
5.5 40 dash, 24″ vert 8.32 3 cone 4.99 short
Drafted under a different offensive system but maybe Cross isn’t so far outside the realm of possibility after all.. As much as I would dislike the pick :/
If Cross lasts to round five like Jones… I’m sure he’ll also be considered 🙂
Well Rob, just remember this post when the Seahawks draft Cross at #9 and promptly move him to guard; the memory of it will haunt all our dreams 😛
Cross’s agility numbers are in line with the best performing tackles in the league. Jones’s are not even close.
Cross’ agility numbers are average
I said they compared to the best players in the league which is true. There’s a big difference between a 5.50 40 time and 4.95 and a 4.99 short shuttle and 4.61.
Trent Williams 480/4.63
Tristin Wirfs 4.85/4.68
Lael Collins 5.12/4.63
Jack Conklin 5.00/4.57
Sure but it’s still an average short shuttle
To add on to Malcolm Rodriguez, the guy is just a football player. As an Oklahoma State fan who watched his whole career, he was someone who always seemed to be involved in a play. That his measurables are in a range is great. He also won multiple state championships in HS wrestling in Oklahoma which is no small feat. I think if he were there at 152/153 there are worse ways to spend the pick. He’s no Bobby (but who is, really?) but he plays pissed off and flies around.
I’ve been hoping you’d give an opinion on him, Rob. Excited to see him as a potential late round guy. I think Oklahoma State, despite being an Air-Raid adjacent offense a few years ago, has a similar team philosophy as the Seahawks now: run the damn ball and play solid aggressive defense. Seeing Malcolm or Devin Harper in a Seahawks jersey would be very cool.
I second that on Rodriguez. Dude is a dude.
There are a lot of great mid-round options for sure.
I like the call out of ILB Micah McFadden. He was productive in tackles-for-loss and sacks. He was the highest rated pass rushing LB in the Big Ten by PFF. McFadden was also a two-time captain at Indiana.
Can’t believe some of the “experts”. CBS put one out where Seattle trades their 1st, 2nd and a 5th to the Giants for the 5th so they can Malik Willis…utter garbage being put out. They should be embarrassed with themsleves.
However, the goal isn’t to inform us. The goal is to generate buzz. And further some of the agendas of their contacts.
I bet it is the Seahawks sharing/leaking the “NYJ WANT DK FOR #10” rumors, whether or not they are true.
Seahawks want the world to know “THE JETS ARE TAKING A WR @ 10” and “(THE #9 PICK IS FOR SALE)”
To the WR-needy teams with draft capital, Chiefs (29, 30), Packers (22, 28), Saints (16, 18), Eagles (19, 15), that makes the #9 pick the most valuable in this draft….
I feel like DK’s trade value has gone down, now that 49ers WR Deebo Samuel and possibly Titans WR A.J. Brown being unhappy with their teams.
His value hasn’t gone down
Mock drafts have essentially become the NFL version of March Madness brackets.
.
I think there is plenty of motivation to be contrarian. You never win a bracket without hitting on a couple of double digit seeds through the first weekend. Everyone is thirsty to be noticed with their unique take, and nobody is getting called out after the fact. The big payoff is if some idiot GM lines up with your horrible pick and you get mentioned alongside the big reach when it get post-draft coverage and become a “draft expert” .
With the Carolina Panthers perhaps looking to trade down from #6, what the chances that the Seahawks might be a trade partner if one of the top 4 pass rushers is still on the board? Would #72 be enough to move into the #6 pick?
Could Zion Johnson be a credible option after a small trade down to play at Right Tackle? He has the length and agility. As the Seahawks currently have Guards on the roster and no tackles, might he be a good option to fill this need?
Per Draftek’s draft value chart: Pick 6 is 1,600 points. Pick 9 is 1,350 points and Pick 72 is 230 points. So, it’s within reason that they would accept it. Depending on who they like and who is still available at 6. Who would you want at 6 if you were to move up? Just curious because as deep as this draft is someone unexpected would have to fall for me to be willing to give up the 72nd pick.
I would think particularly Travon Walker or Jermain Walker, it could well be that Kavon Thibodeaux falls to #6. I don’t know if it’d be the right thing to do, but would any of these players be worth it?
That’s Jermaine Johnson of course.
It’s interesting to think about for sure. If you’re the Seahawks and you think one of those edge guys is the next Chase Young or TJ Watt, I’d pull the trigger. I tend to think the roster has enough holes in it that taking BPA at 9 or trading back to the teens yields more value than reaching on anyone. From my perspective there is no sure thing in this draft, but there is a pretty high floor on the 1st round through 3rd round talent. Might as well give yourself as many bites at the apple as you can get.
Rob, how would you compare Devin Lloyd and TJ Watt in terms of style of play? Watt had about 15 pounds on him and a bit taller, but their 40 times and broad jumps were almost the same.
Very different players. Watt has always been an edge. Lloyd is a middle linebacker who’s better than expected when he does rush the edge.
How does Chanel compare? I don’t recall seeing reps from the edge, lots of blitzes inside and tfl’s. I think they are really going after combo type guys so they can disguise who is rushing or blitzing and use them in different roles. The LB’s have to be more of a blitzing threat to turn that little show pony loose.
Lloyd comparison, Chanel is my favorite LB because of the inside blitzing.
Lloyd blitzes inside also.
Lloyd reminds me of Anthony Barr. Good athlete, tackling machine, offers some pass rush but maybe not at the consistency you would like. Parsons was something else last year. We would be extremely fortunate if he turned out that way
If Lloyd were a true comparison to Barr, then I would want LLoyd more than any pass rusher (3-4 pass rusher) in this draft. Watt was hella disruptive like Barr in college, it was crazy to me that Watt wasn’t drafted much earlier in the 1st round. Also, crazy that the Vikings played Barr as an off the ball LB.
Curious who is the most likely to drop and be sitting alone in the green room waiting to be drafted? Perhaps Cross? Thibodeaux?
Rob,
Great write-up and analysis (again).
Where do you see the run of players going in this draft? In other words, what positions would you draft first?
Pass rushers will go quickly, then there will be another burst on them
Generally though the draft is deep across the board
Brock and Salk pod kicked off their “official” discussion of prospects for the Seahawks yesterday.
– gushing over Sauce to take him at 9 if he’s there; comp to Jalen Ramsey (“not as physical, but plays the ball better”)
– Jalen Pitre as a Day 2 “safety/nickel” who was “probably his favorite player this year to cover”, called out as someone coaches and opposing teams planned against
– gushing over Devin Lloyd as a potential “trade down target” with some loose comps to BWagz but talk of mixing him in as a pass rusher more like Bruce
– Nik Bonnito called out as another Day 2-ish option
– sleeper option late in the draft, Mike Rose out of Iowa State as a special teamer: “BBK/Cody Barton but 6’4 and 250 with 33 inch arms”
I brought up Lloyd a couple of weeks ago. He is a 4 down player. Very good in coverage. He can flip the field in an instant. Great hand use @ the line of scrimmage, very good at sifting thru traffic. Instincts off the chart. Very good @ reading his keys and sniffing out screens. Plays way faster than his timed 40. Been watching him for 3 years and he has always been the best player on the field. GAME CHANGER!!!
Gee do I like Devin Lloyd or what….
Thank you D-OZ for sharing the information. After Brooks mock up i was like one more BS in mock draft but Rob shed more light and with more positive reviews feels good about #9 pick
When Lloyd hits you, you stay hit.
Love ya Cha,and you too Rob. I would not be surprised if PC/NS somehow came out of this draft without Lloyd. PC likes his LB,s.
In regards to a 3-4 defense, lots of talent @ the LB position and ST dominance.
I think they trade back from 9 or 10, (speculating of course) and acquire Lloyd and BPA.
So sad for Haskins. 😢