The Seahawks like Dorial Green-Beckham according to reports. Can they land him?
We’ll get into the second round of our latest mock draft tomorrow. Today I want to focus on Dorial Green-Beckham.
Draft Insider Tony Pauline published the following report yesterday:
“I’m told the Seattle Seahawks would love to grab Dorial Green-Beckham if he’s available at the 63rd selection but they expect the receiver to be off the board during the initial fifteen picks of round two.”
We’ve been discussing the possibility of Seattle moving up for Green-Beckham for a few weeks. Now we know there’s at least some interest there. I contacted Tony to get a little more meat on the bones. You can hear our conversation below:
So there we go. Green-Beckham probably isn’t going to last beyond the first 15 picks of the second round. The New York Jets at #37 and the San Francisco 49ers at #46 could be a couple of teams to watch here. There are others. The Seahawks would have to make quite a jump to have any shot at landing DGB.
Will they move up? Just yesterday John Schneider noted he has a lot of flexibility because the Seahawks have 11 picks in the draft. Last year the Philadelphia Eagles moved up 12 spots in round two to select Jordan Matthews for the cost of a fourth round pick. Seattle can make a similar move to get into the early 50’s. The question is — what else would they need to concede to move up a little further?
Yesterday Bob McGinn published a piece discussing Green-Beckham. There are some interesting anonymous quotes in the article:
….there are general managers and personnel directors in the National Football League who claim Oklahoma’s Dorial Green-Beckham has the talent to become the finest in another stacked class of wide receivers if he can overcome his complex behavioral issues.
“He has the outstanding athletic package,” an AFC personnel man said. “He may even be better than Cooper. Extremely talented.”
That’s a minority viewpoint among scouts, to be sure, but the AFC man isn’t alone.
“Hard to cover downfield,” said an another AFC scout. “Almost impossible to cover with a little corner. Super talented. He’s a No. 1 for a team if he can control his demons.”
That’s gushing praise even if it is a minority viewpoint as McGinn describes it.
“At Oklahoma they vouch for the kid,” one scout said. “They loved the kid. His pro day was at Oklahoma (March 11), which kind of tells you what they thought of him. His receivers coach (Jay Norvell) was fired, and that was a big reason he decided to come out.
It’s not insignificant that despite leaving Oklahoma without playing a single snap, DGB was invited to participate at the Sooners pro-day and was given 100% backing by the Head Coach Bob Stoops.
Earlier this month, Green-Beckham and his girlfriend went to dinner with officials from a team they were visiting.
“You leave liking him,” one executive said after eating with Green-Beckham. “From a personality standpoint, pretty good. There’s some light behind the eyes. They’re about to have a baby….Seems to be maybe maturing.”
It’s not all positive though:
“If somebody wants him in the second round, go ahead,” said one scout. “I used to draft these kind of guys.”
In a separate article by McGinn yesterday, he ranked Green-Beckham as the #7 receiver in the class. One scout compared him to Josh Gordon — talented, dynamic but ultimately a headache waiting to happen.
There are going to be teams who’ve already taken him off their board. There are going to be teams who are prepared to take him — but only at a certain point in the draft. That’s probably within the first 15 picks of round two as Pauline discussed. The Seahawks love field-tilting ability and DGB has it in spades. They’re also willing to take a chance. It’s going to be very difficult though to move into the top-45 without a serious trade involving multiple picks.
If they can’t move up for DGB, what do they do? They still have the option of trading up for another player. Detroit are light on picks — they have picks in rounds 1-3 and then nothing until round six. They are probably looking to acquire a fourth or fifth rounder and they can do that by moving down from #54. This could be a target range for the Seahawks.
If they stay at #63 all signs point to taking the top offensive lineman left on their board. I suspect they’d be very interested in moving up for the right player. But who — if it isn’t Dorial Green-Beckham?
Don’t forget to check out DraftInsider.net for all the latest information from Tony Pauline — one of he best in the business.
This begets the question: what would it take to get DGB? Taking Pauline’s reports and draft visits at face value, his most likely landing spot may be the 49ers at pick #46. Lucky for the Seahawks, the Minnesota Vikings – our favorite trade partners historically inside and outside the draft – are the owners of pick #45.
The difference between pick #45 and #63 using the Jimmy Johnson trade chart (outdated but influential) is 174 points. With a small discount for the value of 3 picks versus 1, the trade may require in excess of Seattle’s 3rd and 6th round picks (144.2 points) or Seattle’s first two 4th round picks (112 points).
So: how much is Seattle willing to surrender for their field-tilter? Because the price for #45 is certainly steep.
Minnesota should give us the pick for free after pawning Percy Harvin off on us. Sheesh, talk about overpaying!
Seriously, though, how about a package deal? #45 for #63 plus C-Mike?
CMike has little trade value. Probably no value considering how deep the RB class is.
Crazy enough… I had a dream we traded C-Mike to MIN for a conditional 5th rd pick
House,
Hopefully one of your hands was not placed in warm water before you had that dream… Just checking
No sir… lol
Chris Polk’s tender was removed by the Eagles today… He’s a versatile back that fits the size build in SEA and he does well in Pass Protection… Something Michael knows nothing about…
It would be great to see Polk get a shot!
I wouldn’t deal our 3rd (w/o an early- to mid-fourth coming back, anyway). I’d try to kitchen sink it to preserve our 3rd and a 4th; give up, say, our early 4th and a 5th.
Just for reference, in terms of points, 63 + 95 = 396pts; 63 + 112 + 130 = 388pts.
Point-value wise it’s basically a toss up which package you trade away.
Is it still Possible the vikes trade AP for a 1st rounder, and therefore are prepared to give up their 2nd rounder?
The precedent here is Minnesota trading a 2, 3, 4, and 7 to move up 23 spots and into the first round for Cordarelle Patterson in the 2013 draft. It would likely take a bit less to move up in the second as the first round is coveted by teams because of the 5th year option. I doubt teams would take next year’s 3rd but I bet a 2, 3, and a future 4th should get it done, possibly with a 7th. That would still give us the 3 picks in the 4th to grab 2 offensive lineman and one other need.
It seems cost prohibitive but it would also be a calculated risk. If he turned into a Brandon Marshall or Alshon Jeffrey type player it could revolutionize our offense. No other player remotely within striking distance offers the same potential benefit.
It sure does seems like DGB is skyrocketing up the draft board right now. I’m seeing some consensus of him being the 4th best WR in the draft now. There are a few dissenting voices but it seems to be the teams that like him checked him out and have fallen in love with him anyway.
If that’s true lasting till #45 doesn’t seem likely if he’s the 4th receiver off the board.
Love for this to happen, should we get DGB, there’s plenty of leadership in our locker room to straighten this kid. And if it costs us another 4th or 5th rounder, so be it. This is the only WR in this draft that intrigues me that’s obviously within our range. Make it happen JS!
Percy Harvin?
What about Percy Harvin?
I was responding to the leadership in the locker room that was unable to manage Percy.
If Bryon Jones somehow fell within trading distance or Eric Rowe I’d be interested. Both have played safety and corner I believe. First year depth and viable long term solutions at corner. Short of that, Rob, what do you think of Josh Shaw as a similar option at 63? Still should be a great running back option in the third and save your mid rounds for one wide receiver/returner like Montgomery or McBride or Bell and still enough picks to go heavy on offensive linemen.
I think that’s extremely early for Josh Shaw. Essentially he’s a safety at the next level and Seattle has too many pressing needs to draft a backup safety in round two.
Thanks Rob, I don’t watch enough college football to feel great about my limited evaluations. I’m never sure how to account for players never/rarely competing against the same or similar competition. It’s great fun and very interesting to be learning so much after all these years of watching the NFL. Can’t thank you enough for the work you do on this site.
Scary, just because of the huge hit possibility (next Calvin Johnson?) but also the huge bust possibility (next Josh Gordon?). It would be cool to get a true #1 WR in this years draft but personally I’m just not expecting it. By “true WR1” I mean that 6’2+ guy that does all those typical WR1 things like Dez, Calvin, Marshall, Demaryius Thomas, etc.
However there’s a WR I really really like that I THINK we could get, and he could be that Golden Tate style WR1 on our Offense, and that’s Tyler Lockett. (A break down of him here:http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/4/16/8417181/nfl-draft-2015-these-are-a-few-of-my-favorite-prospects)
If we aren’t going to get that 6’3+ WR1 guy in the draft which I don’t think we can unless we trade up for DGB or experiment and get Darren Waller or Funchess, I really want us to get a sure handed Golden Tate type of WR. Now I realize Tate’s YAC is rare so im not specifically saying the wideout MUST be a YAC god like Tate was, but sure hands, a TD maker, could play outside or inside, a good route runner (gets open consistently).
So I like Lockett, and McBride.
I wouldn’t have a problem drafting one of those guys and then drafting a return specialist (Ty Montgomery) and then next year using a high level pick (maybe even first round) on our future #1 WR.
To be fair, J. Gordon has been a hit on the field. Off the field he has busted. Gordon showed more coming out of college than DGB ever has….. I would be in favor of flipping a 7th rounder to CLE and pry Gordon away from them… at least you know he can perform on the field at the NFL level.
Gorden is suspended for a year again though and then be a free agent potentially. I’m not sure if he gets credit for a year if he doesn’t play?
He was suspended last year, near the end, by the team… this gives the team 1 more year of exclusive rights to him.
But lockett isn’t sure handed and Mcbride isn’t known to consistently get open. I like both but not with are first 2 picks witch means they won’t be unfortunately.
Rowdy, those are the issues I also have with Lockett and McBride.
Nathan – I like Lockett, too. But, if he’s the pick, why do we need to “draft a return specialist”, too? For what it’s worth, Kiper has said that Tyler Lockett may be the best kick returner in the draft.
Not sure handed? I think that is a bit overstated… he is a ‘playmaker’!
When u watch the tape you always here the announcers saying “and it’s Lockett AGAIN w the catch.”
He was their #1 WR, he broke all of Kansas States records, which where he fathers, and he IS probably one of the best KR/PR. That’s a special player for us I believe.
He compliments the WR corp by being able to get open, and he is VERY good at coming back to the QB when he scrambles… I believe he is the PERFECT pick if we can’t get DGB…
He’d be my pick under that scenario.
Of the teams picking in R2 before SEA likely to be targeting him, he’s visited with TEN @33, STL@41, MIN@45, SF@46, MIA@47, KC@49 and CIN@53.
I’m sure those aren’t the only teams looking at him closely. After all, SEA isn’t on the list, and yet we know they are:
“Prior to trading their first-round pick in the Jimmy Graham deal, the Seahawks were ‘digging into’ Oklahoma WR Dorial Green-Beckham, according to Charles Robinson. ‘If he slides to second-round, watch Seattle.’ –Charles Robinson via twitter 3/17/15
If a team picking in the earliest part of the round – TEN, NYJ?, STL – want him, he’s out of reach for SEA. But if he’s still available in the low 40s (ATL, CLE, NO), SEA could move up that far by trading 63 + 95 for any of 42, 43 or 44. That way they would jump ahead of MIN, SF and KC, any of which are a likely taker at that point.
I realize it’s expensive to trade your first 2 picks for 1. But look at it this way: if SEA took 2 different WRs with their first 2 picks, neither alone, nor both combined, have the same impact potential as DGB. Moreover, neither would be any less of a risk than DGB as a prospect. From another perspective, SEA will have come away with Graham and DGB with their first 3 picks in the 2015 NFL Draft.
They still have 3 R4 picks – the heart of the OL talent pool in the draft – not to mention another 7 in R5 and beyond.
At any rate, here are some clues as to what some of those teams might be thinking.
“Chiefs GM John Dorsey said he’s done plenty of homework on Oklahoma WR Dorial Green-Beckham.
‘Physically, we think he has all the gifts in the world,’ Dorsey said. ‘We’ve all admired him. All of us who have been in the state of Missouri and the Kansas City area have seen him afar, have admired his physical traits. … We will be meeting him in the next couple days and I look forward to it.'” –nfl.com 2/20/15
“Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome announced he won’t draft anyone with a domestic-abuse background.
All such players have been eliminated from Baltimore’s draft board. Ravens fans praying that WR Dorial Green-Beckham would fall to the Ravens at No. 26 overall now must turn their attention to other prospects.” –Luke Jones 2/25/15
“Oklahoma WR Dorial Green-Beckham visited the Ravens, according to Aaron Wilson. The Ravens are unlikely to select Green-Beckham due to Ozzie Newsome’s previous statements on not adding players with a (possible) history of domestic violence. DGB’s draft projection is impossible to predict. He could be selected as early as the mid-first round or at the end of the second round. Expectations exist to result in disappointment, but Green-Beckham tested like an average athlete at the Combine.” –Baltimore Sun 4/8/15
They could also move up to 42-44 by trading 63 + 112 + 2016 R3.
Also – that should read 6 more picks in R5 and beyond.
When you put it like that it makes a ton of sense. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd picks for jimmy Graham and DGB. Do it.
Chawk,#63+95 would work, but rd. 4 #112+ a 2016 is even better. They could still meet needs. Consider this scenario for instance:
DGB
Rd.3- OL Sambrailo
Rd.4-OL Morse
Rd 4- S Kurtis Drummond or CB/WR Tony Lippett
Rd. 5- WR/PKR Ty Montgomery or Mario Alford
Rd. 5- LEO Shaq Riddick
Rd.6- OL Gibson or Crisp
Rd. 6 DL David Irving
Rd. 6-RB Corey Grant
Rd. 7- CB/S Devante Bausby or Akeem King
Add a bunch of UDFAs, and that is a pretty good hoard.
Now that’s a draft for the ages. The only thing I might swap is Glowinski for Morse.
BTW, David Irving might be one of those “can’t leave the draft without” prospects. He’s so unbelievably long, not to mention explosively quick and aggressive. He’s a true 2-gap DE/DT, very much in the mold of Red Bryant. He needs to add strength and bulk, but he could really be a force playing 5T in SEA’s front.
Also, Madmark has me taking a closer look at BYU OLB Alani Fua. He’s one of the better coverage OLB/EDGE prospects, has nice size and a frame that could add 15-20lbs. He’s not necessarily the quick twitch type, but his 10 yd split is a decent 1.67s, and he put up gawdy numbers in the agility drills – 4.15s SS and 6.83s in the 3C! From a guy who’s 6’5″ 240lbs.
Chris Clemons was 6’5″ 235 coming out of UGA in 2003, with similar Combine numbers. Fua is a Day 3 prospect. Just sayin.
Chawk, I love David Irving and hope he doesn’t catch too much attention over the next week. He is the DGB of defensive linemen! Same freakishness, same off field issues.
He’s versatile could play all over and has a quick burst for blitzing the outside like Malcolm Smith. Seattle would find a way to use hid talents. Had growth spurt and there’s plenty of room to add to that frame. Pro day number 4.5 range better than his combine.
Walt’s mock draft has Alana fua going to Houston at 175. Man every guy I have picked has gone up.
I thought scenario of them trading up into the 50s was acrobatic enough. Now we’re talking about the 40s. Essentially, is DGB alone worth a huge chunk of draft capital as part of a package?
I do believe a great tall target is important, and should be acquired somewhere in this draft. If DGB is not an option, does one of these other tall WRs also with an above-rim/mismatch game fill the role well enough to be consolation prizes? The objective, I think, is to have another tall WR to work alongside of Chris Matthews, and replace him if he underperforms or leaves in FA next year.
Funchess- rd. 2-3- Very mixed opinions on him
Dezmin Lewis-rd. 3-4- My next favorite alternative
Darren Waller-rd 5- The right size, but almost zero technique
Isaac Blakeney-rd 7-UDFA-
Tyrell Williams- UDFA
Lance Lewis-UDFA
Not quite monsters at 6-3, but both very athletic
Kenny Cook-UDFA
Ian Hamilton-UDFA
I do not include Conley or Lippett because I see them as different kinds of players, more downfield threats not “box out” types. They should get one of this other type also.
I think the name I’ll be watching closest if they don’t take DGB is Tre McBride.
Rob, it is difficult for me to get excited about McBride. He doesn’t look like a #1 WR to me. He is undersized. He lacks speed and explosiveness. At best, he would be a smooth, efficient, somewhat Golden Tate-ish contributor.
Take him, and they still lack the big box-out WR, and the downfield threat.
Land McBride plus Conley plus Ty Montgomery, and that would work. But McBride alone would only be a slight improvement.
I’m not sure why McBride and the other two works but McBride alone (or McBride & Montgomery) doesn’t.
I don’t think you get a ‘box out’ receiver unless you move up in R2. There aren’t many options in this draft. DGB is rare for a reason. There are bigger guys available, but none do what DGB does. McBride appeals for a different reason. He’s not too undersized (6-0, 210lbs) and he’s an excellent high point catcher, great attitude and performed exceptionally well at the level he played.
Rob, I disagree that there not box out WRs throughout the draft and in UDFA. They are there, their potential varies. My definition is at least 6-3—hopefully way more— with a game suited to the outside, contested catches, big radius, red zone. Basically, Chris Matthews.
I do not see McBride being suited to that role, even with his jump ball. At 6-0, he just doesn’t have the frame. He is more of a y or z whereas I am looking for an x. I question his speed. I don’t think he is a field tilter all by himself.
Do you consider Derrick Mason to be a field tilter or a #1 WR? Mason was a comparable player.
I don’t think it’s just about size. It’s about style. There are tall receiver in this class who don’t have a clue how to box out a defender. Or they just aren’t physical enough to do it.
In my last comment I said I didn’t see McBride as a box out receiver. He’s different. But he’s still very appealing.
Agreed
Also, I see the upside of Roddy white if he can improve his route running.
Derrick Mason had a darn good career. 15 years, 943 catches over 12,000 yards and 79 tds. What’s wrong with that?
The Roddy White comparison is appropriate. But would the Roddy White component be effective without Julio Jones across from him, as the #1? It’s the #1 that this roster lacks.
Roddy White was a number 1 before Julio got there. Here are Roddys numbers before Julio got to ATL
’07 – 83 / 1200 / 6
’08 – 88 / 1382 / 7
’09 – 85 / 1153 / 11
’10 – 115 / 1389 / 10
Also, I contend that any WR that you get outside of the 1st isn’t going to be a #1. I don’t even think that DGB will be a #1. He could be a high #2 but not a 1
#1 WRs come in so many flavors now.
Antonio Brown, OBJ, Jordy Nelson. None of these are prototype #1 WRs. But they play like it just the same.
I generally tend to think the big #1 box out WR is a bit of a white whale.
That said, I think DGB is that caliber of player. I’ve been on him since the beginning. And I’m not batting an eyelash if I’m asked for #63, #95 and #130. Retaining #112. Price may be steep. But this is a position and role that clearly Pete covets. And it’s incredibly rare to have availability to even acquire a player of that talent level.
If DGB wasn’t with red flags, he’s probably a top 12 pick. How much more expensive would a move up to that range cost? And we could be waiting 2, maybe 3 years for one to come along? And then who’s to say we even have the opportunity to move up.
DGB, from a talent and role perspective could very easily be the last first round quality big WR Pete even has the chance to acquire. He won’t be the last good big WR — but from an out of the box day 1 of rookie camp perspective he could very well be it.
If I’m trading Ty Sambrailo, some random guy in R3 that we would have taken who everyone thinks should be a late R4 pick, and an actual late R4 pick for DGB. I make that every day of the week. It’s not as if we’ve been tearing it up in R3/R4 the last two years. I’m pretty sure whatever reach we would have burned at #95 will still be there at #112.
Ultimately, if you think he’s worth trading up for, then you’re already comfortable with the idea that he’s not that big of a risk. If that’s true, then talent wise, he should be gone by pick 20 or earlier. That 2nd, 3rd and late 4th price isn’t really even all that high of a price for a talent like that.
Seconded ^^^^
Absolutely. The only reason he isn’t up there in the top 15 is off the field
Let’s say that, yes, the ” big #1 box out WR is a white whale”, and that we are trying too hard.
The more basic objective is to re-introduce a Sidney Rice type tall possession receiver and a Golden Tate playmaker. What was lost from 2013. Two pieces like that would do. Add a Harvin x-factor type at either WR or a RB who can catch, and that’s gravy.
I can see the desire to reacquire those abilities.
I don’t really think Seattle looks at it that way. And in truth, I think that’s where teams get into trouble. Each player brings different unique qualities to the league. It is better to get the next/first Agholor or McBride than the next Tate. Because Tate was a unique cat.
I don’t ascribe to the notion of ‘who does this player compare to in the NFL’ train of thought. And I don’t get the sense that Seattle does either. Even a guy like Lockett, who is similar both to Baldwin and Richardson is going to add his own unique quality to that slot/flanker role.
Ultimately, I see us seeing prospects as we’ve generally seen them admit to. Guys that present mismatches. Graham and Harvin both were prime examples of this. And when I look at other players at the late 2nd/3rd range — I see a host of good generic prospects who can be productive players. But ultimately none of them have that alpha mismatch quality. And that’s where DGB separates himself from these guys. You can see, even in his freshman and Sophomore film — that he has shown that ability to be that mismatch player who can take over a game.
Additionally, Seattle loves guys who come into the league with a genuine chip on their shoulder. Guys who want to prove people wrong. In that sense, I don’t see any player in this draft, who should come into the league with as much doubt ammunition as DGB. He has more to prove than any other player at any other position. Getting a player with that level of motivation, and that level of talent and the demonstrated ability to tilt the field really seems like a perfect storm of attributes that appeal to Seattle with their alpha picks.
Seattle undoubtedly loves the splash move. Harvin. Richardson. Graham. Irvin. Wilson. All these moves generated a ton of buzz in the league. DGB is that exact kind of pick. No matter where he goes. And the narrative to whatever team he goes to will be 1st round talent, 5th round head. He’s a classic boom/bust type of player and that has been the kind of prospect Seattle has strongly targeted most.
I entirely expect Seattle to overpay significantly to get DGB. We’ve talked about #63, #130 and a future third. I could easily envision a #63, #95 and a 2016 1st, for #34 and a 2016 2nd or 3rd. Figure whatever price is just over the top in your mind, then add significantly more. Seattle will aggressively get their man (if he truly is that). They have consistently shown they will make an offer teams can’t refuse. And not look back.
I do believe that DGB is that player for us. His situation and talent just absolutely screams Seahawk at virtually every turn. Couple that quality with the specific and hard to fill role that he’d fulfill — I would expect us to make a deal that fans will howl about as gross overpayment. Which would suit the team just fine. Just adds more doubt ammunition that Pete will earwig into DGB’s brain every practice.
Well said!
I can’t imagine JS/PC look at their roster and say “we need another Sidney Rice/Golden Tate.”
The objective is to find players who tilt the field.
Steele – I wish that I saw a bit of Golden Tate in McBride .. I just don’t see McBride having the quickness that was such a big part of Tate’s game. If we are trying to find similarities, I see McBride’s game being more like Kearse than Tate.
Going a step further, if we buy the idea that JS/PC like guys who have “unique” abilities that make them “Seahawky”, what makes McBride special? He’s not the biggest, nor the fastest, nor the quickest, nor the strongest, etc. He’s another athletic, good character, 6′ or 6’1″ receiver, from a small football school … He’s certainly not a guy who is going to tilt the field.
He does make chunk plays, very good high point catcher. Very crisp out of his breaks. He might not have unnatural size but he’s big enough and fast enough.You’re not going to find physical beasts in the mid rounds.
I would append “without other major question marks” to that, but basically I agree. Whether it’s character and lack of development (DGB) lack of production (Conley) or extremely deficient technique (Coates) if there’s a guy you CAN get in rd2 or later who has the athletic profile of that big #1 wide out, he’s still available that late for a reason.
Now, I still think we need to pick one of those guys. But I would not relish picking exactly which one, and I sure as he’ll wouldn’t give up half the draft to do it.
I like McBride. I also like Coxson as a late round pick up or UDFA. He shows real polish on his routes, although the level of competition is similar to McBride’s. Remember that Antonio Brown played in the Mid American Conference and people talked about his level of comp before the draft too. He turned out ok. The one WR I really want to see in a Seahawk uniform is Montgomery. He’d make a difference in special teams on day 1.
I like Adrian Coxson, too. But is one of many, many similarly interesting names in the low rounds and UDFA that don’t seem to appeal to Rob and others seeking all-in-one The Man types. Looking for The Man is almost a different project than simply stockpiling the ones who constitute quality parts, who perhaps develop in Men with some time.
I thought the objective was to get a #1 WR – a player who tilts the field. If they can’t do that, they can’t do it. But if there’s any way they can, I think they will.
A big part of this depends on how the first round plays out. If MIN and/or SF and/or KC take WRs in R1, that reduces the likelihood of that team targeting DGB in R2. If all of them take WRs in R1, DGB probably slips to the low 50s where SEA can move up for the price of the R4 they got from NO.
Personally, I don’t think that will happen. At least one of those teams won’t take a WR early, maybe two. In that case, I think it’ll take at least 63 + 95 (or 63 + 112 + 2016 R3) for SEA to move up high enough to get him.
Word is that Jaelen Strong may drop into rd. 2 because a wrist injury that might require surgery. If that is the case, I see Strong ticking a lot of boxes as a tallish possession receiver. At the least, the Sidney Rice role and more. An adequate alternative to DGB.
What other first rounders could they land instead of DGB? Eli Harold, Shane Ray, Randy Gregory might all be in play. Philip Dorsett and Agholor also (although I do not think either is worth it).
I would not trade up for Strong I prefer the upside in a guy like Conely in the 3rd.
If any of the other players you mention fall to the 50s I would definitely make a move up to get one of them.
Trevor, that is a tough one. I like Conley too. Offers more explosiveness. But Strong is a more finished and complete product, and probably a more immediate starter. Strong would, I think, more easily plug in as a possession WR.
Strong may have the best hands in this draft class. Maybe.
Strong is a guy I can’t figure out. I love his abiity to make the tough catches and make the acrobatic receptions look routine, but if this guy can’t seperate from PAC 12 DBs, how long, if at all, before he learns to seperate from NFL corners?
I think Strong does many things extremely well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxRvC2MhLKs
Might drop DGB down as well. If you are looking for a big WR some teams would prefer Strong.
I figure if they don’t get DGB this year, they will select a wide receiver as #1 next year. We can survive another year with what we have and a couple mid round wide receivers.
Yeah — we can’t lose sight of the fact that Graham is going to be a big weapon in this offense. We can step back from the precipice and, as you say — “survive another year”. Whew!
Absolutely, a couple mid size receivers with good hands, Conley, Lockette for instance. A UDFA smurf or two, a late round running back like Josh Robinson. Fill in the holes in the offensive line. That would be a kick ass draft, especially with Graham and Matthews added to them.
DGB won’t make it past Carolina.
In many ways, what team does not want a DGB on a pure football basis? He is simply too freakish to dismiss. Not only do the Hawks have to resort to extreme measures, but also be as lucky as Vikings were in landing Randy Moss.
At 25? I don’t see it. Sure, they need a WR, but if there isn’t a run on them and either Agholor or Perriman are available, I’d be shocked if they went with DGB over them.
But even if there is a run, they need a starting LT badly. That’s not the kind of prospect you can hope to pick up in the later rounds. If there is a WR run in R1, CAR most likely will take one of the top tackle prospects that didn’t get picked earlier because some team went WR instead. I’m thinking either Ereck Flowers, DJ Humphries or La’el Collins. Also, just to note, they’re reportedly very interested in Eddie Goldman and Shaq Thompson.
I don’t think he makes it past KC at 18. If not there, then Carolina makes sense or NE at 32. I am quite convinced he will not make it to the second round.
New England really needs a secondary though.
I think moving up and trading with Minn for our 2nd our own 4th and next years 3rd Rounder since we are going to get a 3rd comp pick for Maxwell.
If DGB is there I think it is a deal that makes too much sense.
1st Jimmy Graham
2nd DGB
3rd Grasu/ Morse
4th Shaq Riddick
4th Traded to Minn
4th Montgomery
5th Frank Clark
5th Nick Marshall
6th Glowinski or Monson
6th R Crisp
6th D Irving
7th D Smelter
Trevor, the whole point is that DGB won’t be there. Not likely anyway.
Steele as I mentioned in my post it assumes a trade up with Minn in front of SF using our 2nd, 4th and next years 3rd.
If he is gone before then we just don’t have enough draft capital to make it happen.
Glow will be gone by the 5th rounds conclusion.
I would not be so quick to trade a 3rd round next year.. that is the sweet spot for players imo. This years draft is loaded with prospective SOLID talent in round 3 and 4, so I’m sure next year will be similar. (they might be different positions than OL and WR, like this year)
Man, this is the type of draft i am looking for, the only Thing i would change is: take Frank Clark at the 4th round and take a BIG DT in the 5th. Anyway, if thats what happens next week, i would be even more exited for the season.
If the assumption is DGB is out of reach, even with a reasonable trade up, how about Henry Anderson of Stanford with our native #63? How would that be perceived?
Yes please! I have become pretty focused on Anderson and Hardison. I really want one of those two, preferably both on this roster next year
This is a great draft!!!
That would be perfect Trevor!
JS said that the Draft is not the only way to adress the OL, so i do believe SEA will sign Chris Myers or another cheap O-lineman after the deadline date. That would help and the OL would be priority in later rounds (4,5,6) and would open space for DL at 95. I expect SEA to trade up for a top receiver, they can use a player (Mebane?), 63 and 112 or 63,112 and a 3rd round pick from 2016 (they have a comp pick there from Maxwell), that would get them to the 40s. I would love to see DGB pairing with Graham and Baldwin, however, Jaelen Strong is a guy that is falling on draft Boards, he would fit the #1 receiver Seattle is looking for and is a safer pick. In my mind, Strong or DGB will fall to the 40s (maybe both?) and trading up for one of them would be really worth it.
Therick, I like Chris Myers also, but he is not young and is not a long term solution. I also seriously question how much cap is left for free agents. We still don’t know what is happening with RW and Wagner. I wish they had more free agent money to use.
I do think Jaelen Strong would be a good fit.
Steele – Using a Therick’s scenario of using Mebane in a trade to move up, we gain over $5 million in cap space. But, who wants Mebane’s one-year contract? Could we sign him to an extension and then trade him? Risky for a guy coming off an injury, but maybe. We’d probably want to extend him anyway, if we decided to keep him.
A DT I’d be interested in that will be available at 63 (I think) or maybe as a 3rd trade up candidate is Grady Jarrett (sp?). Looks like a good 1 gapping 3-tech
YES!
I think the knowledge that Seattle brought Funchess in for a look (allegedly) and that prior to the combine he was viewed as a mid 1st round pick…. and now is viewed as a 2nd or 3rd round guy…. this screams value to me. He might not be perfect, but ticks many of the boxes Seattle might be looking for in a TE/WR hybrid. Yes, I know they have Graham now, so what…. if they believe he will improve the team even more…. GO FOR IT and PULL THE TRIGGER.
I would rather stand pat, than trade up for DGB. I’ve never been a fan and nothing has changed my mind.
Charlie, your point is well taken. I have been back and forth on the same. Funchess can be mismatch by merely taking the field, depending on the scheme. If he can play at all—and that is the question—he would at least make some plays when necessary, even if he is not a constant threat.
Worst case scenario, he is a mediocre move tight end.
He is not DGB, but I don’t think that would be a terrible investment.
But if we consider Funchess to be a value, then I think Dezmin Lewis and some of the other big WRs I list above fit the bill as well. At 6-4, Lewis plays up to his size, high points the ball, red zone, etc. etc.
I’m trying to play along with this “draft a WR high” herd mentality that is going on on this blog.
I personally do not think they will, but then the blog would be a boring place to visit.
I don’t pretend to know what they are going to do. I think we should draft a WR high – but if they surprise me I won’t be mad or anything.
It seems a pretty even split between oline and wr. For me with the way russel moves a wr helps more then oline immediately. I dont know if its hive mentality. Me id trade up for a whole bunch of players only one olinemen, erving. But id trade up for dgb, Collins, Rowe, Phillips, and Peters.
I hope it’s not seen as a herd mentality. I think we’ve spent a fair bit of time discussing the O-line options too.
However, the options in the middle rounds on the interior OL are very, very good this year. So it lends itself towards going WR in round two and then focusing on the OL.
I think you have to consider the offense as a whole instead of who can Wilson throw to. With a great offensive line RW doesn’t have to scramble unless he wants to. With a great offensive line RW gets plenty of time to pass. With a great offensive line RW doesn’t get a helmet to his knee from his blind side.
Plus, for a limited time only, finding two great offensive linemen help the running backs burst through the hole instead of getting tackled behind the line of scrimmage.
I don’t believe we are witnessing any sort of herd as it relates to this draft. Most of us are pretty independently minded, and most posters share their logic in discussing any particular approach. And even more of them are flexible and willing to consider another point of view.
As for drafting a WR high in the draft, I admit my bias is based on what I perceive to be the largest potential for improving the team. In addition, the kind of WR that will thrive with Wilson. Given that priority, and given the options for the second priority (offensive line) are available in the 4th/5th round, that leads me back to WR.
Having said that, the real wild card is the secondary, perhaps a pass rusher. While not as big a need, IMO, PC loves his secondary and favors the defense (in general) over the offense. And in the offense, he favors running the ball, putting WRs at a lower priority (in general).
Finally, I have no eye for evaluating defensive players, or how their value can be compared to WRs, say. That leads me back to looking at WRs.
But it wouldn’t surprise me to see Seattle draft a CB/safety/DE with their first pick.
Avril contract and cost, Mebane and McDaniels age and cost, CB depth issues…I would expect there are numerous young defensive players high on our board. If one of them drops, JS will pounce like a hungry coyote!
Steele — if “Funchess can be mismatch by merely taking the field”, doesn’t Matthews already fill this role?
I don’t think Funchess’s value has actually changed to NFL teams, just our perception of him based on draft “gurus” initially projecting him high based largely on size.
Well, Funch is also supposed to have speed. Took him to his pro day to show it.
Im worried about the draft and stuff but not getting contracts to Bobby Wagner, JR Sweezy, picking the 5th year option and the most important, Russell Wilson. All of them are important pieces of the team.
They have til a week after the draft to sign irvin for the 5th year.
I have issues with Irvins age. Not sure if giving him top money is worth it.
The trajectory of Irvins yearly improvement causes me to think he well be a ferocious pass rusher this year and take his play at SAM to the next level. His ceiling is in the clouds!
I firmly believe there are checkpoints or sweet spots in the 2nd round where PC/JS will attack are based on 1) who’s available, 2) what a team might do, & 3) what team is willing to be their trade partner.
Sweet spot #1: Picks 36-42, cost: 63, 112,, 2016 3rd rd, & possibly 181 (6th rd) to move into 36-39, Potential targets: S. Ray, E. Harold, C. Erving, DGB – per Pauline
Sweet spot #2: Picks 48-54, cost: 63 & 112, Potential targets: DGB, J. Collins
Is DGB worth losing 2 picks this year and a pick next year?
I’d say yes.
What are the odds that a 1st round talent drops due to red flags and it costs day 2/3 stock to get him?
Also, consider that you’re trying to add talent to grow with your franchise QB. Waiting additional years robs your team of that kind of development. It’s important to get the pieces to develop alongside him as quickly as possible.
Agreed plus the big investment tho year is already trending towards 30 (graham). In three years w/o pieces Wilson will be in his prime of his skills and graham will be 32. They have to get Wilson a piece or two if he’s going to grow.
I can’t agree on seeing a second sweet spot there, especially without more than 2 names, with neither really qualifying with respect to the Hawks. DGB would, but it seems he clearly needs to be included in the earlier group. Collins also just doesn’t show enough certainty to make that much sense for the Hawks with their acumen for finding secondary talent and what they have done for the short-term outlook there.
If there is much comfort with his psyche and maturity growth, DGB is undoubtedly worth that.
Okay, so let’s say it is DGB that Seattle wants – they are going to have to move way up to get him. Tenn, Oak, Jack, Wash, NYJ, Chi all could use a WR. So, in my mind, if this is their guy, they will have to move up 25 spots.
Of that list, the only likely candidate IMO would be the Jets. And they could take a WR at #6. I think Baltimore is an option if they trade down into round two from #26. San Fran at #46 another to watch again depending on what they do in the first.
The Jets don’t need a WR. They have Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker, and Jace Amaro at move TE. DGB would be a BPA luxury for them.
The Jets don’t have a lot of needs. Adding weapons to the offense is one of only a handful. DGB could elevate that offense in a way those names will not.
Arians isn’t afraid of character concerns. I wonder if any of him rubbed off on Todd Bowles. Then again, maybe it was Bowles who pushed for Matthieu.
I think the Jets have a huge need at left guard, they just don’t know it. 🙂
There’s a limit to how much they’d be wiling to spend for him. Just my opinion but I don’t think they’d spend what it would cost to get a pick before 40. If DGB goes in that range, oh well, on to plan B (assuming DGB was plan A).
If he’s there after STL I think JS is making calls.
I’m with you. If he lasts into the 50 range, maybe start calling. But if he goes earlier, we can still look great. Every fake mock I run we end up with some combination of a good WR prospect (Lockett/Agholor/Conley/McBride) and good interior OL prospect, plus a C and developmental OT, an intriguing CB, DT, etc.
I would agree, they would have a limit.
I just think Seattle loves the bold move. And I suspect that limit might be much higher than we fans might think.
Seattle is flush this year with picks. Also have 10 current picks going into next year. I think we might see a very big splash move. Possibly into the top of R2.
IMO, the conditions are just ripe for a big deal. Prospect, need and excess picks. I think we’re all going to be slack jawed with a move that most of us will debate for months.
I’m expecting them to do it so if they do it won’t slack my jaw. What will is HOW they do it.
The Art of the Deal by John Scnheider
Chicago is a very likely target for him. They like big bodied WRs.. and traded Marshall.
Chicago needs everything and dgb isn’t going to fix that whole defense or their cutler priblem
After the Percy trade, I hope they are done trading a bunch of picks for a singular player. Thanks to the Maxwell signing, the Hawks will be getting a 3rd rounder next year. It might mean they are willing to do a 1-for-1 trade with DGB if they think that highly of him such as a #1 next year for an early #2 this year to take him. Then they aren’t trading a bunch of picks for a singular pick. Then that could give Schneider incentive to potentially trade down in the 2nd or 3rd this year to add or restock picks for next year when, again, they won’t have a #1 pick. If they want him bad enough, they can get him if he’s around 5-10 picks into the second round.
Good thinking.
I think it’s more likely that they use next year’s #1(and more picks) to trade for a veteran receiver (just like they did with Harvin and Graham). If they have the cap space, this is the way to go because it eliminates the uncertainty you get with a draftee.
I like that idea alot Phil. Antonio Brown wants a new contract he’s going to be too expensive, though there are others.
My “dream” mock:
1st, Jimmy Graham TE
2nd, Hroniss Grasu C
3rd, Dezmin Lewis WR
4th-1, Mitch Morse OL
4th-2, Mario Alford KR/PR/WR
4th-3, Mark Glowinski OL
5th-1, Xavier Williams DT
5th-2, Nick Marshall CB/QB
6th-1, David Irving DT/DE
6th-2, Trey Walker CB
6th-3, Zach Zenner RB/FB
7th, BPA, maybe an SS/FS or LB
UDFA-Anyone left on their visit list. Ringo, Sokoli, Harper, etc.
And this is the thing. Would I trade Hroniss Grasu, Dezmin Lewis and Mario Alford for DGB?
I’d say if the rest of that draft fell into place (Walker should go earlier), then I’d say make the trade.
I would not. But I could be a fool. That is why we all do this, I guess.
We always look at the “total” draft after the fact… but when the bullets are flying, you can’t assume anyone is available at any point other than at the current pick.
Yes.
You can find a Center & a Returner with later picks. I believe that a Returner can be a RB/WR/DB, not just WR.
Hronnis Grasu- Seahawks looked at Chris Meyers, a center who had never missed a game due to injury, while john sncheinder said they will still add a veteran after the draft. Other centers in later rounds.
Dezmin Lewis- Would play the same role as DGB
Mario Alford- He’s probably avaliable in the fifth, probably even the 6th.
I would make the trade, but it would probably be a better trade if we traded a future 3rd rounder instead of this years 3rd rounder.
I like this draft a lot as it addresses most of our depth needs.
In my opinion, if you have to trade up for DGB, then you don’t draft him. As the scout said, “If somebody wants him in the second round, go ahead, I used to draft these kind of guys.” By trading up, you are losing two chances for a contributing player. If the Seahawks already had a 40something pick, it is something to consider. But, having to use two resources for such a player just is not smart.
It is about value and bang for the buck. I agree with your statement wholeheartedly.
But is the tradeup smart if you think he is a generational talent, the kind you rarely see come along? Perhaps they actually provide the impact of two players. It is always more reasonable to go for depth and value. The Hawks appear to be in a position to go either way this time.
Is the loss of one extra pick though Coug1990 not offset somewhat by the fact Seattle has 11 picks and three in round four?
For sure it does Rob. The Hawks need picks to add depth but they have shown numerous times that they will spend draft capital to get a player that they believe can have a dynamic impact.
For me they only questions are
1) Does he have the mental toughness they want
2) Do they view him as a true #1
3) Will he even make it to the 2nd round
4) Can you find a trade partner and what would it take.
I would be ok with spend a 4th and 5th this year or a 4th and 3rd next year if they really want him.
Yes, I think it is. But there are limits, of course; Seattle likes to target pockets of value, and maybe they’ll consider it so because of the middle round strength of linemen in comparison. It seems to me that they’ll more likely move up to take someone who they feel has fallen, while DGB in the late 30s doesn’t seem to stray far from his overall grading.
Moving over Carolina & Baltimore in the 50s is of course much more palatable. Taking this stance pretty much assures DGB is picked by someone else, I suppose, and subsequently may make a move over Carolina more crucial and more expensive. For the likes of Devin Smith I guess.
Which leaves me torn. I’d rather go for DGB at higher cost, if one gets to choose. But it doesn’t seem like an arbitrageur kind of move, going after a mid-2nd round prospect in the mid-2nd round. So maybe they’d be better off standing pat.
I look at it this way. There are two ways a player busts out. 1) They are just not good enough, which happens all the time. Even in the first round and he does have weaknesses. 2) Off field problems. He has them in spades. Most draft picks you only have to worry about the first. With DGB, you have to worry about both.
I think way to often people talk themselves out of the smart thing to do and reach for the shiny new object. So no, not for him. Again, if the Seahawks already had a high enough pick, I think you consider it.
Appreciate all the awesome work, Rob. That said, I pray another team takes DGB early. Watching his now two year old tape, and man, Ian not impressed. He certainly is no Kevin White. And now his girlfriend is pregnant?
No thanks, my man. We are trying to hard to justify this guy… Missing the forest for the trees.
I pray Seattle drafts potential upside over hype.
His girlfriend being pregnant is a bad thing???
If he marries her, or agrees to child support and is a presence in the child’s life, no problem.
I suspect very few of us would get our house on that. Maybe I am being harsh. But if I am not wrong, then he has shown again he cannot manage responsibility.
My two cents.
Michael, Kevin whit only came on in his last year. I’ve been pretty adamant about dgb’s on field concerns but he produced big early on compared to white. If he didn’t have his off field problems and maintained his stats for three straight years as opposed to two where do you think he’d go?
Fair enough. I worry about the year off for DGB. Good point.
Michael, you are right in that some of DGB’s tape is underwhelming. His combine was underwhelming, too. And didn’t we cool quite dramatically on DGB before more recently becoming nervous about the rest of this class? On his overall SPARQ, he actually winds up being in the bottom half compared to other WRs. So the concerns have merit.
But the bottom line is, we will rarely see someone of his size who runs a 4.49 and a three cone of 6.89. Although his overall SPARQ is not super (vertical jump is poor!), those two measures are impressive.
Now I feel pretty strongly that other big WRs in this draft can deliver something somewhat comparable to DGB, with slightly less speed—4.5-4.6 40 times—but same size matchup.
Great response. This is wher I will find my love for DGB if we do draft him.
The odd thing is, I have no problem drafting him at 63. The thought of moving up for him is depressing to me.
The big concern with DGB IMO is not the off-field stuff. I think he’s showing a degree of maturity during interviews. I liked the mini documentary on his pro-day and it was clear he had a ton of respect from Bob Stoops and the Oklahoma guys. The concern for me is whether he can handle press, handle getting beat up at the LOS every week. He glides in space and given a head start he’ll run by you. He dominates smaller corners. But against a physical corner can he win? Or will he cave? Is he a shrinking violet? I can’t answer those questions. I suspect that is what the Seahawks have been looking at.
“The concern for me is whether he can handle press, handle getting beat up at the LOS every week.”
I can see that. Although, and I think you’d agree, receiver prospects in college just don’t see press like they do in the pros. The DB talent just isn’t good enough for defenses to feature that. I think that concern can be levied against every WR in the draft.
I think it’s also very important to consider future development and existing tools. DGB has the size and strength to excel at beating press. And I also think you’d agree, that there isn’t a team in the NFL that will force him to improve and excel at that more than the LOB in practice every single day.
He’s going to have the ideal environment to develop and improve to the next level playing here in Seattle.
Yeah, everyone talks about his actual fame like he’d be a sure fire top 10 pick and I just don’t see it. He never developed past bullying over matched CBS with his body, or at least if he did he never got the opportunity to show it in the field.
And why was that? Oh right, because he’s been in disciplinary he’ll his whole career. But yeah, let’s trade half the draft for a question mark because he’s 6’5 and broke 4.5 in the forty.
This really is patently untrue. I get that you’re not a fan of his, but trying to embellish one’s disdain for a player isn’t the way to go about it.
I’ll submit for rebuttal:
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/dorial-green-beckham-vs-indiana-2013/
In this game, he’s locked up almost all game long with Michael Hunter. He’s a 6-1 CB with size. DGB torched him to the tune of 8 catches 105yds and a TD. And in ways that one should expect him to face at the NFL level (man/zone/bracket coverages).
Here’s another interesting game:
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/dorial-green-beckham-vs-texas-am-2013-2/
In this contest, he’s matched up largely with #7 Tremain Jacobs (6-1), #29 Deshazor Everett (6-0) and #1 De’vante Harris (5-11). Decent size.
Again, performed well to the tune of 7/93/1. Also lays out a Tatesque block. Guy does play up to his physical dimensions nicely.
Obviously, he does match up with DBs of size. And does perform well. That’s admittedly only as a 20 year old sophomore. So he did develop nicely and I’d expect there to be significant room for improvement now that he’ll be 21.
While it’s true, DGB will have matched up with smaller CBs, the reality is that CFB is dominated by 5-11 or shorter DBs. It’s the nature of the position at that level. There are probably fewer than 20 CBs in this draft that are 6-1 or more.
I’ve never found it necessarily compelling to spite players for ‘lack of competition’ issues. Although I do look hard at contests where good matchups take place. One can’t control who or how defenses play. Lack of NFL caliber talent is always going to be a limiting factor. In cases where he did have competitive matchups, he performed very well.
It’s why I’m very high on Ali Marpet despite his D3 lineage. Guy should and did dominate at that level. But in elevated competition situations, he dominated there as well.
I should have added his mega game against Kentucky:
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/dorial-green-beckham-vs-kentucky-2013/
With a respectable 7 rec 100 yds 4TDs.
Playing largely against: #21 Nate Willis (6-0) and #3 Fred Tiller (6-0). This game is just a rosterbaters dream. Shows all the elements you want to see from a big WR.
– High points with physical press coverage.
– Effective hand fighting on well covered fades
– Great body control and strength to break LB tackles for excellent YAC
– Savvy use of hands to separate cleanly at the last moment and extend for catch in compressed space.
– Ridiculous catch reaching over and behind defenders helmet to secure the catch against opponents body.
– Nice crisp route on short dig creating great separation for final TD.
Obviously his best game as a collegian. But again matched up with defenders with size whose coverage was for the most part excellent.
Well done Attyla. I would add, somewhat simplistically, the stat line from the last year he played – 2013.
59 receptions for 883 yards and 12 TDs.
DGB was a 20 year old sophomore that year. He wasn’t the only tall WR option on his team. Mizzou had 2 other WRs at least 6’4″ tall. Both were seniors. As a comparison, Chris Conley was pretty much the primary WR option (tall or otherwise) on his team for 2 seasons, and yet he never came close to that level of production.
We talk a lot on SDB about how SEA WRs need to make the most of each receiving opportunity. DGB produced 883 yds and 12 TDs on only 59 catches. Doug Baldwin – SEA’s best WR last season – had 7 more in 2014 (66 recs). He produced nearly the same amount of yards at 825. But he had only 3 TDs.
Is anyone else starting to feel like their interest in him may be a smokescreen for who they’re really after?
I don’t generally think you put a smokescreen out there for players that are highly unlikely to make it to your pick. Also, nobody internally has indicated interest and they didn’t bring him in for a predraft visit.
I’d agree but what receiver would they be targeting….strong? Smith? None of the above?
I don’t think so.
JS’s pre draft presser is the first time I can remember that he publicly acknowledged SEA would like to have DGB. Up to that point, not a single “official” word from anyone in the FO on DGB.
JS did the only thing he could do – he acknowledged what everyone already knows – SEA is interested in DGB. If he hadn’t, it only would have fueled more speculation.
BUT he also suggested that they don’t expect to have a shot at him because he will to go too early for SEA (first 15 picks of R2).
In other words – “yeah we want him but we don’t have a chance to get him so move on to the next question.”
6-4 WR Jordan Taylor of Rice is one to watch. Dont take my word for it, take Matt Waldman’s. http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2014/11/18/no-huddle-series-rice-wr-jordan-taylor/
Just like Willson, Taylor was coming off of an injury.
Still not convinced try Rob Rang , “The 6-foot-4, 209-pound wideout ran a 4.52 and 4.50 in the 40-yard dash and posted a 36.5″ vertical, a 10-2″ broad jump and a 6.72 3-cone time at his pro day. The Rice prospect caught a team high 54 receptions for 842 yards and seven scores in 2014. Back in January, Taylor impressed evaluators during East West Shrine week, and combined with his solid pro day, he should be a middle round selection in this year’s draft.”
Tony Pauline agrees that he should be a mid round choice.
I hear you Guy – he has some potential, and maybe you can bring him in to compete, but to me, he could be Chris Matthews.
I am obsessed with SEA getting a tall receiver, but with the Jimmy pick up, right now I’d like to get a returner too.
Cc I think both are possible and a new oline and….some good players
I really believe he’s better than Matthews, but I’m not delusional. He’s not the next Megatron. But I think he could be a solid piece. I’m trying to come up with other names since I believe we have no shot at Green-Beckham. This was a name I had only brought up once in the buildup to the draft. I do believe that 2 WR’s will be drafted and one will handle either KR or PR duties (or both.)
Based on what I’ve watched of Jordan Taylor, he does have the size matchup and some speed, but he is a bit soft and lacks short area quickness. There is a pretty extensive list of tall WRs who I think are just as good.
CC, i am also obsessed with with the need for a tall high pointing receiver. I think that having Graham only increases the need for another tall target to force size mismatches.
As for Matthews, he may be the one or it could have been a one time thing. The other point about Matthews is that he is out of contract after 2015. With our cap situation i’d like to see someone we have for 4 years at low cost. I.E. – if a guy is “just like Matthews”, he is much more valuable to us the Matthews.
Actually Matthews is under our control for 3 or 4 more years. His contract being up in 2015 means nothing as he has not accrued the seasons. He was not active during the regular season and did not accrue in 2014. He will be ERFA in 2016 at around 660,000 and ERFA/RFA in 2017/2018. I know he will be under control through 2017, not so sure about 2018. Either way he is under our control until he accrues 4 seasons.
Rice has two weird tapes…one from last year against Texas a&Mb where he has the best hands in the draft but looks slow as an oak Forrest. Then one a year before where he isn’t hurt and is a lot quicker against auburn and looks really good. One of my favorites and for the waller/funchess crowd….hes got better wr skills then the former and fights/boxes out better then the latter.
People seem to think you have to waste another pick on a return WR, when Lockett/McBride/Bell/Conley are above average KR as well?! I’d rather draft another good wr than a specialist only. Like Smelter, Waller, Funchess, etc.
There’s no guarantee who you can get in 2nd and 3rd combined, but I think trading up for Tomlinson at LG then Cann/Grasu/Marpet at OC would be better in the long run. Especially week 1.
I’d love DGB, but then we would have to pray for Morse for LG and Grasu/Glowinski/Nick Easton/Garcia or Mason at OC.
I love Laurence Gibson to be a solid backup to Okung.
If you are looking for the need for another tall WR in this draft, let’s look at the Super Bowl. When the Patriots adjusted and put Browner on Matthews, the Hawks ran out of mismatches. Browner was on Matthews, and the rest of the NE secondary—Revis, Arrington, Butler— shut down Baldwin and Kearse for the most part. Size for size, speed for speed.
Rewind back to that moment and imagine if the Hawks had DGB or Funchess. NE would not have been able to cover another tower. If they had Tre McBride or Kenny Bell, they would have managed. They would probably have handled Dorsett or Agholor or Lockett, too.
Size is simply more difficult to stop.
If they had DGB or Funchess? But Jimmy Graham doesn’t necessitate that type of coverage or give you a guy that’s almost impossible to cover?
Call Jimmy Graham want you want, but he’s a flatout matchup nightmare. A big version of today’s offensive weapon. The only reason he’s listed as one is because the NFL didn’t know what to make of a 6’7 target that can play the slot and line up out wide.
Yes, Jimmy Graham is a matchup nightmare. But he is not a WR. Now it is true that in my alternate SB scenario, Jimmy Graham solves the problem. I still think they need a WR.
He ain’t a TE either. My point is, who cares what position a guy is classified as? That’s an old school way of looking at things IMO.
I think they need receiver help too, but taking a guy just for the sake of having size at the position while passing on more talented players or better fits in the locker room is misplaced thinking. Taking a 6’4 or 6’5 receiver doesn’t guarantee that Seattle’s offense will be instantly improved nor willl said WR automatically lock down a spot.
This is not a great draft for the ever elusive DGB type, unless he falls.
Well said!
V12, i agree with everything you say regarding Graham.
However, NFL teams can handle one big size miss match. They move their tallest cover guy on him, double team, add a safety etc. It will not stop Graham totally but it will help.
The need for another tall receiver on the field is the perfect complementary piece for Graham. Graham will draw the tall cover leaving the other tall target covered by a smurf. That 2nd guy does not have to be everything we’d like from a WR1 type of WR. He just needs to be able to get to his spot, go up and come down with the high ball over a shorter CB in single cover. He does not have to separate or run advanced routes. Jimmy is the reason he will be alone with a smaller corner.
You have to remember that getting Graham also provides matchup nightmares in the run game. Now defensive coordinators have to account for a big athletic Graham and thus cannot stack the box for Lynch. Yes a big receiver would be nice, but I have to agree with V12. If DGB falls great but if not take the best O lineman or D lineman or CB
EXACTLY!!
I am with you also Eran and Steele
V12, I think another tall receiver—in addition to hope that Chris Matthews is not a one hit wonder— does instantly improve the Hawks offense, as EranUnger points out, from a mismatch standpoint. Multiple tall targets cannot be easily covered.
Whereas adding any WR who resembles Baldwin or Kearse would not. They would not be mismatches. Even more talented and faster versions of them would be more easily dealt with.
Also, look at how Russell throws passes. He has a quirky motion that often loops. Give him guys who can catch high balls.
My concern is that any ‘tall receiver’ outside of DGB is probably not going to have any impact this season. Still could be useful to take a flyer on a guy later, but as a project.
I’d rather have a guy that’s able to consistently get separation than a tall guy who can’t.
Edelman carved up Tharold Simon because of his signature quickness out of his breaks. He makes lots of guys look silly by turning them around like that, not just Simon, and demands double coverage from teams that don’t have someone equally quick that can defend him. But he was a project 7th round pick that didn’t blossom until his 5th year because he was far too raw, having played QB in college.
I don’t mind taking a late round flyer on a high upside athletic types that could turn into a stud like Edelman, whether his signature move be size and body control to create vertical separation, or unparalleled quickness like Edelman. But it’s still going to require patience of a player that won’t be ready any time soon.
DGB seems expensively out of reach at this point, the way he’s knocking his team interviews out of the park. Sounds like he charmed and convinced quite a few execs that he’s genuine and that’s lowered the inhibitions of him now being talked up as good or better than the top 3 wideouts.
Arias, both Edelman and Welker (in his prime) are (/were) extremely gifted with unusual short area quickness, but more than that, super intensity and super dedication to slot technique. It was not long ago that Edelman was a nobody, and an oft-injured one that.
Unlike other WR smurfs, Edelman/Welker thrive in their role and stay within it. Their job is to drive larger defenders nuts, within their area. Nothing more.
Whereas so many of the undersized smurf WRs in this draft see themselves more as #1 x WRs in the mold of TY Hilton. These include Dorsett, D.Smith, Lockett. It is a different approach.
If you want to find an Edelman in this draft, fine. Let’s look for one. I’m all for smurfs who are exceptional as smurfs. The smurfs who want to be Hilton or Harvin, I continue to question how well this type works with Russell Wilson, who hasn’t been able to make very better use of PRich, who is exactly that type.
But I don’t think we should confuse the Devin Smiths and Locketts with Edelman. Different game.
“Edelman/Welker thrive in their role and stay within it. Their job is to drive larger defenders nuts, within their area. Nothing more.”
Wow man. Well, at least you pull no punches with regards to where you biases are.
I disagree with your dismissive analysis that they have a designated role of “driving larger defender nuts”. I followed Welker with keen interest from the moment he was picked up as a UDFA by Miami his rookie year just like I’ve watched Edelman’s growth in polishing off all the routes in a route tree while managing to stay healthy. To claim that either receiver was only on the field to “drive larger defenders nuts” is just wrong and lacks any real understanding of how special each are.
Both have a remarkable and consistent ability to create separation and come down with the ball, both are known for their toughness to go over the middle and take beatings. Welker was unquestionably elite in his prime. I feel Edelman’s on the cusp.
I see six cornerbacks in the league right now that I’d feel comfortable in single coverage on Edelman. I can’t even say that about Burley even though I wish I could. He just didn’t play enough towards the end of the season and did a solid job when he did, but Edelman doesn’t require a ‘solid’ job to contain him. So if you’re not one of those 6 teams, guess what? You’re burning an extra cover guy to throw bracket coverage on Edelman to cover both sides of him. Most corners would never recover in time if they guessed wrong on which way he’ll break. But then what about the extra coverage on Gronk? Exactly.
Welker’s a shell of what he was but both Edelman and Welker have run two of the fast short shuttle times in the history of measurables. Edelman’s SS was even faster than Welker’s, so it’s no surprise they’ve polished their ace attribute into their signature trump. That’s what makes them elite now.
Sure, you can say either receiver is more ideally suited in the slot or the Z than the traditional X of a #1 receiver, but I don’t see the distinction of whether a true #1 needs to be an X or a Y. If Welker in his prime were on this team right now, he would have been the de facto #1 no matter where he lined up.
I agree with you that I’d be concerned about Russ not knowing how to exploit speed as often as height. I definitely understand that.
But the bottom line is that there are maybe 20 true #1 receivers in this league right now. Let’s be honest that from where we’re picking we’re not likely to get one. If we find one it will likely be a project pick with high upside. So then it comes down to WR’s that can play specific roles and learn to play them really well enough to be a safer pick that will contribute sooner. That’s where I see guys like Funchess and Waller as kind of worthless as far as being able to do much for us for at least a year or two in spite of their height.
Fair point regarding the bigger receiver prospects, and I think the bottom of the draft and UDFA is littered with those types. They may not have DGB size, but receivera that go 6’2-6’3, 220-230 lbs. are still good sized weapons IMO.
Exactly. There are many. And some do have DGB size.
That’s certainly enough size, but you need to prioritize actual on-field talent to get much from whatever size you go for.
And NE had just Gronk for a size mismatch, while we got gashed by Edelman and Vereen. Every aspect of the 11v11 matchup informs the others and it’s going to be different from opponent to opponent and also evolve over time. If it was as close to as simple as some think to just get size/jump ball mismatches, the league would have twice the number of 6’4″+ receivers. Focusing on type of player and measurables leads to early round busts and late round steals. Sometimes teams just need to be brought back to the simple concept of just getting the better players as they show on the field. Sometimes that overlaps with ideal measurables; usually it doesn’t.
If the Hawks really need the big targets as much as some seem to think, and can’t benefit from plain old talent that gets on the ground separation, then something else is wrong and needs to be addressed.
Purple, nobody is saying it is simple. It all depends on what else is on the roster. It depends on the QB and the offensive scheme.
I think any team would want WRs over 6-4 who are fast, who can play well. Any team benefits from simple physical mismatches. The average defender, no matter how skilled, would have difficulty. If that were not the case, we would not be seeing DGB’s draft stock skyrocket.
Having three tall receiving targets—Graham, Matthews and one more—creates severe problems for opposing defenses. Graham plus three smurfs, less of a problem. Because normal and smaller sized WRs are covered by normal and bigger corners and safeties.
As for separation, sure. That is a given.
But in Seattle’s case, we must consider Russell Wilson, his short stature, and his quirky passing method. He is not Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, whose games are ideally suited to playing with smurfs. Taller targets are better for Russell.
IMHO — if we want to with 3 tall receivers, we go with Graham, Matthews, and Willson.
s/b “to go”
If the “smurfs” are better players, they actually create more of a problem for a defense. All else equal, taller targets are better for any QB, but too often talent is sacrificed to obtain the size. Again, what has stopped teams from just accumulating 4 or 5 tall mismatches and just tearing up all the defenses?
That’s my line of thinking as well. Like Rob said, just because you take a 6’4 or 6’5 receiver doesn’t mean they know how to use their size to their advantage not does it mean they know how to box a guy out.
TY Hilton and others are used as outside receivers because their unique regardless of size. P-rich is not a smurf. Small frame, but if a 6’0 or 6’1 receiver is a smurf, then there’s an epidemic in this league.
And it’s less about RW throwing a jump ball every time why this offense gets bogged down then it is about having him get into a rhytm with quick throws and timing passes. The big guys will bail him out when he needs it and help in the red zone.
Just like Rob points out about Seattle having 2 of the best pass rushing D-lineman in the league in Bennett and Avril and not many teams having that advantage/luxury, its the same thing on offense with Jimmy and Beastmode. 2 of the 3 top producers in terms of TDs and redzone weapons in the league over the past 3 years. How much are some expecting a ‘big’ rookie receiver to contribute?
And why wouldn’t another Kearse or Baldwin help out? Size doesn’t guarantee production. I suspect one of the main reasons Seattle likes DGB has just as much to do with him being doubted his whole life and having that ‘survivor’ or ‘underdog’ mentality’ that Seattle seems to value/place an emphasis on in their WRs.
Should say nor does it mean they know how to box a receiver out.
Arrrr Rob, why did you have to mention Jordan Matthews???
I was banging the drums on him repeatedly last year and you kept shooting me down. He was there before we traded back and then….he wasn’t….and had the year i thought he would…
He is the reason i do not mention names this year. I decided to try it so i do not jinx my favorite picks.
Anyway, as always, we go WR crazy here before the draft because nothing is sexier then the WR#1 pick. I still think we will not move up and just pick an OT. DGB would be great to have with some of the above trade up options but i do not see it happening.
As for downplaying the “off field” issues due to our robust locker room – It would/could work on the defense and Cables OL. I’m not sure it describes a bunch of run blocking WRs that get rarely targeted, most are UDFAs, they get zero respect and little production etc. This is the one spot on this team that needs mentally tough team players especially with Graham about to take a big chunk of their opportunities.
Anybody telling you that the Seahawks are seriously interested in someone is ALWAYS wrong. They never show their hand regarding the guys they are really focused on. They will kick every tire on the block but they will hide their true interest.
I’m more likely going to use google search after the pick then see them go for a headlines.
I think we overstate the blocking/lack of targets angle. Let’s not forget, a few weeks ago people were saying they wouldn’t show interest in Julius Thomas because they wanted blocking tight ends. They not only showed interest in Thomas, they cut Zach Miller and then made a huge trade for Jimmy Graham. I think more than anything they just want touchdown makers and field tilters. And DGB ticks both boxes.
I agree regarding the TEs. My remark about run blocking UDFAs was pointing at our WR group.
Being a ball catcher on this team is more hard work and less glory. We run first and we like to spread the ball around when we pass. Add Graham getting his share of the targets and it’s not a very glorious position. It could be frustrating for a rookie looking to make his impact for a future contract.
The locker room around him within the WR ranks is not exactly great names he could look up to.
All of it combined makes WR a position that requires someone with pristine on and of the field dedication and mental fortitude. (see “the Percy experiment”)
IMO we should take it in consideration when we evaluate a WR with off the field issues.
My point though is we might think we know what they’re going to do based on the past, but I sense they’re making an effort to get better in the passing game. And that means a more dynamic tight end and better pass catchers.
Seattle just wants game changers. Field tilters. Touchdown makers. That’s DGB. There’s a reason why Pauline is reporting SEA is interested. The question for me is — will he drop far enough to move up? And if not, will they be aggressive to get him?
Totally agree with Rob and some of the others here. The Seahawks didn’t intentionally choose to only have run blocking UDFAs as their WR corps. Due to finite resources, they allocated their draft & free agent capital to other areas but of course, they like every other team would want as many dangerous/mismatch making WRs on their team as possible.
Graham will be huge in commanding double-coverage and freeing up other WRs and causing less stacked lines to the running game. But if we can get another difference maker receiver, this offense will be really deadly.
Who knows if DGB will ever become that difference maker receiver but experts mostly feel that he has that potential so the only questions left are how badly do the Hawks want him and what are they willing to pay if he drops into the early or mid-2nd round? Yes, there is opportunity cost in giving up multiple draft picks to move up to try to get him but unless we give up all our draft picks (not gonna happen), we should have enough picks in the 4th, 5th, & 6th rounds to still fill holes (with promising prospects) for OL, CB, and DL. Should be an interesting draft!
Zero chance he falls into the mid 2nd round now.
Good points. It is the silly season. No one gets excited talking about the prospects at left guard.
Last year we kept and unbelievable number of WR’s on the final roster (7). Plus, Chris Matthews and Bryan Walters started the season on the practice squad. We lost Harvin (for whom we mortgaged our draft) and Richardson is probably going to the PUP list. We still have 7 strong candidates for the roster. Keeping the extra guys last year 1) came at the expense of a fifth RB and third QB. 2) prevented our two WR draft picks from getting enough targets to show their abilities.
Norwood was injured in training camp, which hurt his chances. Still they kept him on the active roster because they knew someone would claim him off the practice squad. Kevin Norwood, 6-2, 200, 4.48 forty. 81 receptions for 1275 yards with 12 TD’s in a power five conference with outstanding character. He played in the Sugar Bowl and two BCS Championship Bowl victories. That is a better resume than most of the guys coming out this year. Norwood compares very closely to Nelson Agholor whom many of us like. After a year in the building Norwood can only be better than he was which was good enough to make the active roster over Matthews. I expect big things from both Norwood and Matthews this year, which is why I doubt we shop for more than a KR/PR guy in the draft.
Hmm, I agree with everything you said about Norwood and Matthews. Let me add that Matthews was Rookie of the year in the CFL, then got injured the next year and was in recovery mode when Seattle picked him up. The one game he was featured in shows just how valuable he can be. I see both backs as having a future in Seattle, barring injury.
I do think Seahawks will target at least two receivers. Mario Alford came up again, in the threads above. He would be a great addition as a smurf receiver/KR/PR.
Not sure I understand this logic. If the conclusion is SEA drafts only a returner type WR, to me that seems at odds with your points about them carrying an unbelievable number of WRs on the final roster. They had 7 last year. They have only 8 on roster now. Using the 90-man off season roster as a basis, they will want 12 total WRs in training camp. They need to add 4 more in the draft and UDFA.
Also, your point about Norwood and PRich being injured seems contradictory. Are you saying there won’t be any injuries at all to the WR corps this year such that they won’t need to account for that in terms of overall numbers?
And finally, seems a bit exaggerated to say SEA mortgaged the 2013 draft on Harvin, especially after they used their next highest pick on CMike. What’s he done for them lately? Also, they did come away with Jordan Hill and Luke Willson. You can include Simon depending on how you feel about him. At any rate, the fact that they exchanged their R1 pick + for a #1 WR type in Harvin proves they do this sort of thing. They went big in FA for Sidney Rice as a #1 WR. They made a strong push for Julius Thomas and VJax this past year. They traded their R1 pick this year for Graham. They’ve proven themselves ready and willing to find their #1 WR.
At any rate, regardless of what happens with DGB, numbers alone suggest they’ll draft 2-3 WRs and sign about an equal number in UDFA.
Norwood’s game compares more closely, I think, to Tre McBride. Smooth, good hands, adequate but not blinding speed.
But if we are talking about field tilters and TD makers, Norwood is probably not it. McBride might not be it, either. And as much as I like Kenny Bell, same. These are good contributor types and role/depth players, probably nothing more.
This RSP Film room look at Damarious Randall does not leave a good impression of him. Poor tackler. Poor decision maker. Highlight plays are easy picks that any good safety should get. Is he worth a high pick?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz_3seM7w9o
That’s one guys opinion. It’s not a deal breaker if a guy can’t tackle, because they’re going to be taught PCs techniques on tackling regardless. ET wasn’t a great tackler either. As for the decision making again, nothing some film study and learning from guys like the LOB won’t fix.
There’s more ways of being unique then just on the football field. And why so juch focus on the negatives or what a guy can’t do my man?
Because Randall is being talked up as the Hawks pick at #63. And I do not think they should waste that draft capital at the top on anyone who isn’t far better and/or positions of greater need than safety.
Completely agree
I still think Dres Anderson is a decent fallback option. Has a knack for the big play. Underrated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwWlK7wI9qw
Dres is for sure a great fallback option. One of the more underrated and explosive receivers hands down.
He would be a great option in the 5 or 6th round. He’s more of a Paul Richardson type than a jump ball / 50/50 guy.
I don’t think Dres gets out of the 4th round.
SEA sent a scout to watch his workout. So did 11 other teams.
BAL sent their WR coach Bobby Engram, who was reported to be conferencing with Anderson afterwards.
I think Dres Anderson can be a steal. He and Tony Lippett just have some intangibles, and they make big plays at big moments.
I look at Anderson and Conley for a similar downfield vertical role. They will probably be available at around the same part of the draft.
Just think this time next week we will be discussing the 1st round and who is still left for us!!
In light of this I thought I would do a list of the guy at each position whom might be available at 63 or later whom would have a chance to be a dominant performer within 2 -3 years. So basically a guys who can be starters who we want to resign for that 2nd bigger money contract.
On Offense
Guard – Ali Marpet (Hobart)- Boom or Bust prospect with the athletic potential to be a pro-bowler if he can translate potential into production.
Center – H Grasu (Oregon) – Athletic, Tough and Smart. All the attributes you need to be a great Center in a power ZBS like we run. He would be a perfect replacement for Unger.
Tackle – Donovan Smith (Penn St)- I have heard he has a quirky personality and the turmoil at Penn St. has to have affected his development but he is a guy with true Left tackle size, length, feet and athleticism. He was the best Tackle by far at the Senior Bowl and I think he will have a long career in the league at Right or Left Tackle if his character issues check out.
WR/KR – Trey Mcbride (William and Mary) – Rob has done a great write up on him already. I think he will be a great 2nd receiver and kick returner for many years in the league.
WR – Darren Waller (G-Tech) – I know he needs work on routes and technique but remember he comes from a run based offense at G-tech. There simply are not many 6-6 guys who run a 4.4 40 and have great hand. He never dropped a catchable ball last year. He has the potential to be a true #1 in 2-3 years if his character checks out. Conely and Smelter are two other guys I strongly considered.
QB – Bryce Petty (Baylor) Great arm and good athlete. Just needs to develop and learn pro system. I hope we re-sign Russ and don’t need to worry about QB for many years anyways.
RB- David Johnson (Northern Iowa) – A true 3 down back who is an incredible receiver out of the backfield. Does not really have the Seahawks RB body type but I think he will be a great pick for someone in the mid rounds.
Tight End – Clive Watford (Miami) – Not much to pick from at TE. When watch his tape he just looks like a player. Not an area of need for us this year anyways.
Now for the Defense
Defensive Tackle – Christian Covington (Rice) His tape from 2 years ago was great. He is quick off the snap with good power and gets great penetration. He could be an absolute steal in the mid-late rounds as injuries hampered his play last year. If his medicals check out he would be an awesome addition to our DL rotation as an interior pass rusher.
Defensive End – Frank Clark (Michigan)- Take away the off field baggage and he is an early round pick. Solid against the run and has a great bull rush. Needs to develop his pass rush skills and get better with hands but should be a quality starter.
LEO / Edge – Shaq Riddick( West Virgina) Very raw but has the physical length, speed and skills to be a pro bowler in 2-3 years in our system. He was mis-used like Irvin at W Virgina and still produced. He could start as a situational pass rusher Day #1 and in 3 years I truly believe with the right coaching and development could be an star
Middle Linebacker – Kwon Alexander (LSU) He has tremendous speed and while being a little undersized reminds me a lot of Wagner with his ability to go sideline to sideline.
Strong Safety – Clayton Geathers (Central Fl) He is one of the most physical players in the draft and would be an ideal backup for Kam particularly with his injury concerns. Great in the box and better in coverage than expected. He would be another Safety who could really set the tone.
Free Safety – Josh Shaw (USC) Great speed and strength combo with Corner cover skills. I think he makes a great backup for Earl in case of injury and would be an instant upgrade to Bailey, Shead or Pinkins
Corner – Tony Lippett (Mich St.) A wide receiver convert who is a true Sherm clone with decent speed and great length. He is very fluid with great hips and incredible ball skills. I think he has the potential to be a star cover corner and ball hawk.
Slot Corner – Ifo Ekpre-Olomu (Oregon) Does not have the traditional corner length the Hawks look for but he is a playmaker with great instinct and ball skills. He plays tough and would be a huge addition to our secondary as a slot corner
Any of these guys would be great additions to our roster IMO and if we can get 3-4 of them I will be ecstatic.
Well done, Trevor. I would take Ty Montgomery over Tre McBride. Ty has better overall stats and played at a higher level of competition. I like Jaquiski Tartt over Geathers. Other than that I am on board with your choices.
Ho Lee I really like Tartt and Montgomery as well! I would be happy with either of those guys and think they would be great picks.
Lots of great picks there. For mid to late rounds how about Mario Alfonso, Wide Receiver/KR, and Josh Robinson or Zach Zenner, Running back.
If we go RB I really like Josh Robinson. I know we have talked about Davis from SC a lot on here but I think Robinson is a better pick. Zenner is an interesting guy but don’t know enough about him to have an informed opinion.
Rob – any chance of getting tape on some late round running backs like Robinson and Zenner? I think they are both capable of a punishing running style.
I would take Tartt as well. I could see him being the next Kam with training & mentoring on our team. As well as Josh Shaw being a big upgrade over Shead at backup FS/slot cb.
Damn Trevor thanks for the write up. Your effort is appreciated man!
Thanks Screeching. I love Robs blog and this is my favourite part of the offseason. Only 6 more days to see how it all plays out and speculate about our new Hawks!
What do you guys think of Ifo Ekpre-Olumu out of Oregon? I know he is undersized but watching him for four years in Oregon, he really has a knack for locking down defenders. Also I think before his injury, he was one of the top 2 or 3 corners in this year’s class. Maybe he could be a slot cover guy?
*Receivers not defenders
http://www.walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php
Wow did not realize it was that serious CHawk. And I agree Trevor. If he is able to come back from the injury (which is worse than I thought) I think he could be really valuable. Perfect compliment like you said.
Love him! Just not sure how long he will last. Once the 4th round hits, I would run to the podium for him. I feel like his injury and size make him too much of a gamble in the 2nd and 3rd with the players available at that time being more “safe” picks.
MT click the link I posted. He’s now being ranked as low as UDFA.
That’s crazy to me, and it’s also a reason I think that ACL injuries are still incredibly serious despite being downgraded to “easy to recover from” nowadays. I think he would be a great slot corner though, very quick and physical but that quickness could be in jeopardy due to that injury.
Ha! I would but Walter is not allowed at work… Gonna have to do that later
I think he would be a great pick and give us a true slot corner. He is a playmaker and good tackler. A perfect compliment to what we have on the roster.
“Mike Maccagnan on draft trades: Philosophically, I like the idea of adding picks”
Trade down from 6 or from 37?
R2 #37 = 530 pts
R2 #63 = 276
R3 #95 = 120
R3 2016 = 75
Total = 477
Points-wise it’s not enough. But a draft pick is a draft pick and getting 3 for 1 is always nice.
you trade down get the guy you wanted and get another pick worth more points later for when there’s a need to move up.
My first 2 days of this draft. Sitting at the start of day one I watch as receivers start to fly off the board. The last receiver off the board is Phillip Dorsett to the Saints at 31. I head to bed thinking what our number 1 pick Jimmy Graham will do in this offense. The start of day two, we again see some receivers coming off the board. We’ve been on the phones all more working to get back up but a deal was not to be make. Pick 63 is here and it really works for us. Tyler Lockett to replace Walter’s roster spot. That spot is completely open because there is no one on this roster that can return. This is a substantial upgrade here in a game that field position is super important. On top of the return abilities I get a receiver in uniform who run routes, is a film rat, and likes to block. This guy is so much more than a returner. This guy is a Seahawk pick if I every saw one.
We started the 3rd round as we wait patiently watching and Marpet,Williams,and Sambrailo are gone and then Grasu goes to Indianapolis at 93. We end up taking our next option for C/G Mitch Morse and I wouldn’t be so sure this was Cable’s intention anyways. This is the end of Day 2 of my draft. I’m going to bed when I get up I’ll tell you how day three goes.
Hakeem Nicks will sign with TEN. Considering they just picked up Kendall Wright’s 5th yr option at $7.3mm, I wouldn’t expect them to look for a WR early, if at all.
FWIW Nicks and Wright may not be the kind of WRs who make average QBs look good. But they are the kind of WRs that a QB like Rivers could make look good.
I’m walking back from this. Not a NYG fan so I don’t follow their players, and he disappeared on IND’s roster last year (out of sight, out of mind). It’s a 1 year deal. He’s a camp body. Maybe TEN gets lucky and he has some sort of renaissance, but I doubt they’re counting on it.
Kind of impossible to predict how and when they’ll address the position with so many trade rumors swirling about. But now I think they’ll look for one within the first 2 rounds.
Someone made the argument that if you think DGB is a game breaking WR worth a top 10 pick, that if he clears your psych screen, you should be willing to spend like he’s a top 10 pick. I don’t know where the team stands on the player, but if they want him, they’ll likely have to move to early 2nd round. I could see a trade with either Oakland or Jacksonville. Give away 63, 95, and 112 and get back an early 5th. An investment of late 2nd, late 3rd, and early 4th for a game changer is a reasonable cost for the team.
As for our trade partners, they’d both be picking late 2nd,early3rd, late3rd,early4th,early 4th which is a pretty juicy area of this draft for teams that need depth.
That said, such a move would leave the team in desperate straights at finding talent at OL, CB, DL, and LB without those picks.
As good as the depth is at OL, every other team will recognize what we think we do, and starter caliber OL will all be drafted by the mid 4th.
Hey Rob, I see Devin Smith dropping a ton in draft boards and such and being available. Is there any real reason behind this? I thought he’d be a legit WR target for us. you hyped him up earlier, is he no longer a viable option?
I think other receivers have just climbed the ladder. Nelson Agholor has had a terrific off-season and really impressed teams. Breshad Perriman supposedly ran a 4.2 at his pro-day. We’re only going to see so many WR’s go in the top 40. I really like Smith as a downfield threat, chunk play specialist. I hope he’s an option, even though I think they’re really looking to add size.
Drew Boylhart via twitter:
#OhioState WR Devin Smith visited the #Cowboys, #Dolphins, #49ers, #Saints and #Panthers #NFL #NFLDRAFT
Devin Smith is the deep threat that we thought Paul Richardson was going to be. Smith’s ability to track and attack deep balls is fantastic! I’d be very excited if we somehow got him in the 2nd.
Marpet would be best utilized at OC imo, although he would be good at guard.
Ty Montgomery is not fast enough for me. WOuld rather have Lockett, Smelter, Bell or McBride – to be both an outside wr AS WELL as KR.
Dream picks at OL would be trade up for Laken Tomlinson at LG and then Marpet or Grasu OC fall to us in the 3rd. Otherwise draft A.J. Cann at OC and Mitch Morse (chemistry with Britt @ Mizzou) at LG.
Of course I’m biased because Montgomery is one of if not my favorite prospect in this draft, but he’s more quick twitch than any of those guys other than maybe Lockett. His speed in pads is better than all those names other than Lockett again.
Everyone compares Montgomery to the smurf WR/PR/KR guys. A better comparison would be Marshawn Lynch. He has Marshawn’s size and speed and is dangerous in the open field with the ball. Stanford used him all over the field as a game breaker. He is a match-up nightmare in the open field. He is not going to run between the tackles much but I could see him on our roster as the fifth RB.. On special teams he is a Pro Bowl return guy. On offense he can be used in the Percy Harvin role .,.,. all over the field, running screens, toss sweeps and as a receiver. What you see on tape is he blocks and fights for YAC. At 220 lbs he is too big for the CB’s to bring down. Even on returns he bounces off the gunner and gains extra yards.
IF he’s truly like that, then sign me up!
I just worry that we have too many wr capable of being good in open space, but struggle to get seperation to get to that open space.
I think if we get at least >6’1 3’4″ WR who is also >4.45 40 yd, like Kenny Bell or Chris Conley who can also KR, it saves us from drafting a specialist. As well as can replace PRich while he recovers, and then compete as an outside receiver.
Montgomery isn’t really Lynch, nothing that powerful. But he is built more like a RB, has more length than the smurfs. I also think he offers more versatility and upside than McBride or Lockett. He is knocked for his hands, but I think he is awfully close. Technically, he is actually good good. We have to keep in mind that his QB was not stellar.
Montgomery is built very much like DeMarco Murray. Consider that.
Uniquely built and the main reason I like him has nothing to do with his amazing return skills/potential. I like him flat-out as receiver. Tons of potential there, no different than Sammie Coates IMO.
As HLC said this cat is unique. Just get him the ball anywhere on the field, use him everywhere, and he suddenly becomes one of the more dynamic weapons in this game. Ecspecially on a team like Seattle and witha OC like Bevell who love to scheme guys touches. Bevell is crying out for someone like this.
He’s a guy that would follow RW everywhere, they’d grow together, his character is through the roof on and off the field, unique upbringing/childhood, tremendous leadership, fantastic teammate, locker room favorite, tons of swag on top of that.
And as Steele said his QB was awful and he was nowhere near healthy this year.
Agreed. I see a nearly Larry Fitz, Anquan Boldan type player, who can provide some real quality to the position.
I was high on Matthews last year until his combine was subpar.
I liked Martavis Bryant way better, just like Justin Hunter the year before!
Maybe this year we can strike with Smelter/Waller
OR…some potential diamonds in the rough like Gavin Lutman/Dezmin Lewis or Jordan Leslie.
I was Justin Hunter’s biggest fan. I have a big problem with falling in love with specific prospects.
This is a VERY interesting article on the costs of targeting ‘your guy’ from Football Outsiders. The short answer is: you decide do it because you think you’re smarter than the league and have to get the guy you’re sure will be a star, and you’re almost certainly overestimating your abilities in projecting talent.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/saints-draft-and-winners-curse
I read that article. Not sure if you’re suggesting this as an argument against SEA trading up for any particular player (DGB), but I took it as a cautionary tale in general and a scathing criticism of Mickey Loomis in particular. IMO it doesn’t describe SEA’s FO under the JS/PC era. They tend to trade down and accumulate picks. They have traded up on occasion for a specific player. But even then only in the mid rounds where the cost is far lower.
As stated in that same article:
“Trading up isn’t always a bad idea, though. By consistently trading down, teams accumulate extra assets that they can turn around and use to move back up for specific players. With additional picks, teams can more reasonably take chances on specific players while maintaining a stable of other selections to balance out the potential for failure. Loomis’ draft-day behavior reveals that the Saints, like many other NFL teams, have failed to learn this particular lesson.”
I guess you could say SEA overestimated their ability to evaluate Harvin – not athletically, but mentally/emotionally/fit-wise.
Overestimated Harvin, then apparently couldn’t deal with him for one more year. The first part is pretty bad, the second part is an even bigger strike. Why trade him away for a 6th round pick in mid season? There are other ways of dealing with a toxic player, one of which is to isolate him until you need him. Why not separate him from the team and work him with a backup QB and a few backup corners? They could always bring him back for the playoffs when they need him. Instead… it was a compleat failure of both scouting and team management.
In Alaska terms, he was the Sarah Palin of football teams. Pretty to look at, lots of potential, but only lasted a year and a half as governor.
Not necessarily any prospect specifically, just that no matter who the GM is they start getting in trouble when they start putting too much stock in their own brilliance and betting too heavily on their ‘preferred’ guys instead of letting the draft come to them and playing the probabilities. So far, they’ve done a good job of that. If anything they’re overconfident in their ability to turn round 4+ picks into productive players.
But to counter argue that, who do you trust more to evaluate talent? An NFL GM and FO or so called ‘experts?’
For some reason I just feel Tyler Lockett punch’s Seattles ticket. He’s not a Harvin but then again he’s not a Walter’s. I could doing A CM scenario trading back grab a pick fill a special teams spot a player that will be on the roster. I can see him taking PRich and Walter’s snaps on the field. The reason I think it happens is because I absolutely hate it. I’m sure everyone else hates it also. Seattle always does the unexpect. I could see them grabing him at 63 but if a extra pick is added I now have ammo to maybe trade up with my 167 pick. Lots of talent in the 145 to 155 range.
He reminds me of Golden Tate, but has a lot smaller hands…which could be a nonstarter
Lockett. You all know I am not a fan, even though I look at his film a lot and am trying to convince myself. I don’t see great hands (and they are small), and another undersized slot. He can be manhandled by physical defenders. His speed is not that great, despite his rep for explosiveness.
Everyone hates him. Like I said I even hate the pick. I didn’t the CM pick either but I called it on my final mock. I thought man we don’t need another RB and hey they just didn’t get him but they grabed Spencer also. Ugg
Those small hands caught 108 passes last year. But, maybe KSU uses underinflated footballs …..
Steele — “His speed is not that great.” I read that Lockett ran a 4.4 at the combine, reported as the fastest. On tape, I don’t see guys catching him from behind ….
He appears to have game speed…. put the pads on, his speed stays the same.
Actually, Phil, one of the knocks against is that defenders have caught Lockett from behind. He’s more quick than breakaway fast.
Perhaps he is a Wes Welker type of player… who can have a very successful career in the NFL. He never was going to beat anyone down field, but he could shake coverage up until SB 48. ; )
Steele – check http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/tyler-lockett?id=2552430
Lockett had the fastest 40 at the combine as well as the quickest 20-yd. shuttle and 60-yd. shuttle.
If you just don’t like the guy, that’s fine. But, to say “his speed is not that great” or “He’s more quick than breakaway fast” just isn’t supported by the facts.
Hand size is close to what PRich had and people said he drop to many passes.
Prich actually had over a 1/2 bigger hand size. That’s huge!
Inch*
31 Jimmy Graham WR/TE Zache Miller replacement, Yep right.
The Tall WR and playmaker.
63 Tyler Lockett WR/PR/KR
I’ll just say a offensive weapon in uniform and available. Walter replacement
95 Mitch Morse C/G
Hope he’s a center in making but he also can be a guard too. Unger replacement
112 Marcus Hardison 3-tech
He can play pass rush specialist, if he has more than 2 sacks I’m the winner. O’Brians replacement.
130 Jarvis Harrison LG
Cable will unleash this guys talent.
134 Tyler Davidson 1-tech
Rotate with Mebane and in a year be ready to take over. Mountain West guy.
167 Sequen Golson CB
This guy is that defensive Russel Wilson guy doesn’t have dimensions desired but have grit, desire and talent to succeed.
170 Greg Mancz C/G/T
I think this guys a steal here Has skills, knowledge and if Mitch can’t do center this guy can.
181 Aalana Fua OLB
the versatility is great and there are all kinds of option to do something with him.
209 Rob Crisp
Hey its a steal here, Rob told me himself.
214 Thomas Rawl RB
He drops here because of past. He clean it up the college let him do pro day and has talent.
248 I just say I used this to move up at 167. If I didn’t anyone I’d put here I could get UDFA. To many targets my brain hurts
Other than Jimmy Graham I do not see anyone on your list that would start. I hate to be harsh but is seems like an All Practice Squad team to me. There are too many guys with potential and no one that is plug and play on our 53 man roster.
Just because a player isn’t starting does not mean he’s not producing. Slot WRs and CBs aren’t technically starters, but are crucial on third down especially. Quality depth at every position is very much needed over a 19 game season(including playoffs).
Show me a mock that I couldn’t same thing about under your criteria. They all have a chance to make the roster and that was my goal.
Not every guy will make the roster. No matter how good/great your draft was. The true measure is how many starters you harvest from one draft. If 3 guys make it to starter status, then it is a successful draft. Any extra depth would be double bonus for Seattle (or any team).
I picked these for what they can do. To many people have to read the negatives that just about every draftee have. My favorite is needs more core strength well I got a Morse and Davidson who are workout warriors in the weight room could help influence a few of the others in this class. I heard all about Paul Richardson small hands, dropped passes, and the torn ACL. They still took him at 45. Like the Lockett pick or not as I said before I hate it but its a seahawk move. He’s only receiver that I saw under strengths that says he likes to block.
We are adamant about the need for a PR/KR. I think we should stop and consider what prevented Doug Baldwin and Bryan Walters from being more effective. Walters was fine with the Chargers, took some to the house. Baldwin clearly has enough speed and shiftiness, and he had a couple of big returns last season.
Was the problem the returner, or just the blocking?
Playing devil’s advocate here: would your favorite star returner in this draft really be any more effective than Baldwin or Walters were—-if the blocking was the issue?
In the case of both special teams and slot WR, I see Doug Baldwin being the presumptive starter. I don’t see him losing any status (despite how he came close to it with his attitude), he is almost a given, tied to RW’s hip.
So for any undersized WR or returner we are considering, the huge question needs to be “Is ______very clearly better than Doug?”
The most frustrating thing about SEA’s return game last year was DB running out of the end zone on KR instead of taking a knee and starting at the 20. Good athlete who made bad judgments on his ability to beat the coverage.
It may not be fair to knock Walters for always fair-catching; SA may have coached him to do that. Having said that, it takes a special kind of athlete to succeed as a PR. Gunners often arrive when the ball does. You need to be able to track multiple objects simultaneously – the ball in the air, the gunners bearing down. Awareness and ability to make decisions on the fly are as valuable to a PR as pure speed.
Losing Coleman for the year, and Lane and Johnson at times hurt, really hurt the special teams blocking as well as tackling the other team.
But valid point, nonetheless.
I’m okay with whoever fair catching the ball. What pisses me off is when they let it bounce behind them at the 10 and then the ball gets downed at the 1. Just catch the ball darnit.
Also, almost none of our kick returns ended well. If the blocking doesn’t improve, they shouldn’t be allowed to return it from the end zone. Good offenses don’t worry about kick returns. They just want the ball at the 20 so they can start making yardage. They know that whatever yards made in a kick return can just as easily be made with one pass completion.
So the question is, how important is this returner? Is it something that Baldwin or Kearse, for instance, really can’t do, or learn to do adequately? I keep forgetting (because I want to) that Ricardo Lockette is around. What do you do with him?
There just seems to be a logjam of receivers who are known quantities already on the roster, or guys we just haven’t seen yet. Baldwin, Kearse, Norwood, PRich, McNeil, Matthews, Lockette.
Now look at that list. That is a lot of bodies.
How many more will be added? How many should be? Who should be replaced?
Is there a chance that they do NOTHING, and just go with the seven above?
No doubt WRs will be added – at least 12 to go into camp, maybe more.
Could be drafted, UDFAs, cap casualties, but you can take this to the bank: Seattle won’t settle for those players, at least not until the final cuts, if then.
P-rich is out for most of the year, and with a second ACL on the same knee may never be back. Lockette has caught, what, 18 passes in the NFL. Not exactly a quality WR. Norwood is still a mystery. Kearse’s inconsistency creates problems for the offense. Baldwin is a pretty good #3 but he creates zero separation against top corners. I don’t think there’s any chance they do nothing. We will see some new faces at WR this year. Hallelulah and thank the lord!
Steele – as a punt returner, Baldwin returned 6 punts for a total of 42 yds. I think he had 81 yards returning kickoffs — and a fumble against the Packers.
I think the Seahawks return game was poor last year and could be an area where big improvement could be made this year. Maybe it was poor blocking — I am not convinced.
Baldwin has returned superbly before. I think there was one game early in his career against the 9ers where he had two great returns. I think so much of it is blocking and it wasn’t good last season. Then you watch Ty Montgomery highlights and the returns he makes, he doesn’t come close to getting touched. That’s why I think he is an overrated returner. Then you look at Agholors returns and he is actively making things happen. My feeling throughout the season was hat the blocking was horrendous because it seemed like Richardson would have four free runners at him each time. Then Danny jelly did that article on the issue and pretty much proved the blocking was bad.
So if they somehow fix the blocking, how important is another returner? How much to pay up for one?
There are many excellent returners that can be gotten throughout this draft and in UDFA.
I am thinking out loud here. The more needs that are already met with the existing roster, the less has to be done in the draft.
I think Steele and I are on the same page. If you are picking a guy as a WR and he happens to be a decent KR/PR, great… but if he is being drafted as a KR/PR and happens to be a WR… no way jose.
I’m with you big time. Blocking improvements and decreased pressure from avoiding 3-and-outs will go a long way. Not going to close my eye to opportunities to improve there, but I wouldn’t invest much in a guy who doesn’t help elsewhere.
Along that same line, I am still baffled that we don’t see more borderline LB and DL guys develop longsnapping skills. Could make a huge difference to a roster.
I wonder if the loss of Heath Farwell had that much impact on the special teams. I think his loss and Derrick colemans stand out.
William, Coleman will also be a factor in the red zone as well. Might not be a guy who racks up TDs, but he’ll open up the playbook and let them do different things schematically,
I really like that Danny Jelly guy – one of my favorites… 🙂
Ha!
The blocking on STs is extremely important and relevant IMO. But fielding punts is a whole different animal then kickoffa for example. There’s a reason they didn’t use Percy back there. It’s definetly a trait you either have or don’t. It can’t be taught at the snap of your fingers. Not only that, but also being able to know where the wedge is, feel and anticipate lanes/holes, good balance, explosion, watching gunners bearing down on you all the while being able to field the ball, keep your eyes on it, having a great field presence, etc. There’s a lot that goes into it.
We all know how important the field position game is to PC and what a great returner can do in terms of flipping the field.
There are four OGs rated virtually even: AJ Cann, Laken Tomlinson, Tre Jackson and Ali Marpet. At least two of them, maybe all four, will be there at #63 for the Seahawks. It is anyone’s guess which of these four guys Tom Cable would prefer. Marpet is in more in the Sweezy sparq-mode. The other three guys are Carp-types, brute maulers, exceptional in the run game but only OK in pass pro. Honestly, they all look great on film, absolutely elite college OGs, but it seemed to me that Cann had an edge, and who knows what Tom Cable thinks?
Might John go for Hroniss Grasu in R2 instead? After all, John was at Oregon’s pro day. He might have also been looking at Jake Fisher, a top Lt prospect who could start at OG, but who is very unlikely to be there at #63. A number of decent centers should be there in R4, plus Seattle already has Lewis and Jean-Pierre, but if Cable is in love with Grasu to be his zone bellcow, then maybe?
Otherwise, Donovan Smith is a dominating physical presence who could begin at LG and move over to LT next year, but whose competitive fire has been questioned? Or Ty Sambrailo, a blue-collar, maximum effort guy who could potentially play G or C immediately and is another one who could possibly move over to LT down the road; but a guy who is lacking in both strength and athleticism compared to all the other guys noted above.
All are good attitude guys except maybe for Smith, team captain-types, but Cann seems to stand out even in that crowd. And Rob has tossed in a monkey wrench and asked, What if Ogbuehi is still there, having to sit out a redshirt year because of an ACL? So, let’s go with Rob and project Ogbuehi in R2, a guy who won’t even see the field this season, but who is a R1 LT if healthy, and wait for John and Pete to do their magic in rounds 3, 4 & 5.
Interestingly enough, Rob Rang today said that there is some smoke around the Seahawks and Ali Marpet. I think the allure is…. 1) he is a SPARQ god. 2) He was under the radar 3)he is a self made player, coming from no-where to being something 4) He has potential that can still be unlocked 5) every off-season task he has been given, combine / interviews / all-star games – he has constantly shined against all comers.
He was my original pick to the Seahawks at #63, but I think he is rising into mid second round now. I consider this a bit of an overdraft imo. But if he is the guy they REALLY love, then they need to pull the trigger.
James, any of those four guards would be attractive, and I add Morse to that list. WHo knows what Cable will do. I wonder if it is time to phase away from the brute mauler Carp types with weight problems, as they tend to be slower moving.
And often injured. No player, no matter how great, is of any use to his team sitting on the bench.
IMO the Sweezy Experiment demonstrated the benefit of being athletic and balanced over brute strength and sheer size. Sweezy went through a serious learning curve. But his ability to stay healthy and play entire seasons while gaining invaluable game experience is why he’s SEA’s most consistent OL.
I read somewhere recently the 3 key factors GMs & HCs focus on in setting up their draft boards.
1. BPA
2. Position scarcity on a particular team
3. Position scarcity in a particular draft
BPA tends to get the most attention, usually in context of position scarcity on a team. Oft neglected is position scarcity within a draft.
It very well turn out SEA takes their top rated OL at 63. But with all the talent waiting on Day 3 – it’s hard for me to imagine Cable lobbying to take one early (not the guy who claims he can make the garbage man a starting OG).
Knowing Cable, he will tell John and Pete to go ahead and take whoever they want, WR, Leo, DT, etc, in R2 and R3, just give him 3 picks in R4 and R5, and he will do the rest. Cable may very well believe that an OG like Morse or Glowinski, or a C like Finney or Mason, is just as good a prospect as those higher-rated guys. If that is the case, then the Seahawks could really stock up, going with the top WR and the top DL on their board in R2/3. OLs in the mid-rounds, throw in a punt returner (my vote is for McBride R4, unless they get someone like Agholar earlier), and then some depth at DB, etc in R6/7. Re-stock and re-run to the Super Bowl.
We know who Pete and John would draft at OL: one of those “unique talent” guys like Ali Marpet or Hroniss Grasu. But Cable picks the OLs, and he tends to go for the run-game brutes, like Cann, Tomlinson, Jackson or Smith. Rob may yet be right with his “out of left field” pick of Ogbuehi?
AJ Cann just might be one of those guys.
From Tony Pauline today…
“One scenario I’m hearing for the New England Patriots is a trade out of the 32nd pick, something the team has had a lot of success with in the past, and moving down a few slots to select offensive guard AJ Cann. This would fill a big need at guard for the team. I’ve been skeptical of Cann’s movement skills but was told the big offensive lineman, who has been struggling with a calf strain since the end of the season, worked out for several teams on Monday and ran both the short shuttle and 3 cone at the request of coaches. He timed 4.51s in the short shuttle and 7.37s in the 3 cone, both terrific marks. Only two offensive linemen, Jake Fisher and Ali Marpet, ran faster times during the combine.”
Cann’s sigma SPARQ score is 1.7 – tied for 3rd out of all OL prospects. Guess who he’s tied with…Glowinski
Cann is a 2nd-3rd rnd pick, while Glow is 3rd – 5th pick.
This is probably nitpicking, but I’d say those factors are how they use their board and the board is the indicator of those. Also, it’s going to be similar most of the time, but I think the better teams look at position scarcity of potential additions in more general terms, or 2-3 year windows, whenever possible.
Let’s say, next years class is poopy at WR, then you better stock up this year. But, if next years TEs look great, but this years are terribad, better to pick another position.
OL and WR are both “strong” positions overall, so a loaded team can reload with quality depth. A team that is rebuilding or has major holes, must over reach for players at key spots (like the thin CB crop in 2015). Over drafting BPA guys…. which mean poor value for picks utilized throughout the draft.
Next year’s WR class looks pretty good too.
Jaelen Collins is said to be dropping to the second round due to multiple drug test failures in college. What are your thoughts about grabbing him if he slid into the mid to late 40s?
If teams want to drop a young on the rise cb with this terrible class then I’m all about it.
I would avoid Jalen Collins. To me, all he has is the frame. He can’t cover, has tight hips, everything awkward. He is a long, long way from being a good corner.
Look at how badly Amari Cooper burns him repeatedly in this game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94RNWpmncaM
I think there are many better corners in this draft. If they take Collins, they would have development project that will take many years. Not close to starting caliber.
Losing the occasional battle to Cooper isn’t a big deal. He’s a top-five pick.
People should go and look at how often Richard Sherman got beat at Stanford. It’s about an overall skill set. Collins compares favorably to Sherman at Stanford.
I found this to be a pretty detailed/interesting list: http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/4/24/8489485/seattle-big-board-72-possible-picks
This is a list very biased towards VMAC visitors. Many,many interesting names are missing.
It might be biased, but they do draft from their pool of VMAC visitors and attended pro days.
I’m all for bringing in Chris Polk. Eagles cut him loose. He is a banger and appears to have his injury history in check. He will be less than 1M to bring in… low risk, high high high reward. Did I mention he has done some PR and KR as well???? PERFECT FIT!
I’d be down to sign Polk… He can Pass Protect (something Michael can’t)…
On a separate note, Kearse hasn’t signed his tender. IMO, he isn’t worth $2.36M. Do we yank it back and try to ink him to a 2-3 year deal?
Simple answer: no. No way you lock in Kearse and his inconsistency for 3 years. If he doesn’t sign, let him walk. Thanks for the circus catches, but bye bye.
Do you think we’d keep him around for $2.36M?
It’s a fairly trite phrase, but I hope the hawks are in the mode of “buying low, and selling high.” As I see DGB become more coveted and talked-about, I relish the Hawks finding a different type of special player who might slip through the cracks. I was panned by some intelligent folks on this message board for being down on DGB before his fandom skyrocketed. I get to remain the contrarian.
I would avoid him like the plague right now. The attention he is getting has him overvalued. Trade up? Pass, thanks.
Ontoic, we have spent weeks scouring this draft class for that ‘different type of special player”. I’m sorry, there are few if any as special as DGB. He is unfortunately (for those who cannot tolerate his character) the kind of freakish prospect that does not come around often.
We know that the Hawks stack their draft board against their own team. I would suspect it looks very similar to this from last year (credit: Derek Stephens formerly of Fieldgulls, nfldraftscout and CBS Sports) http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/4415215/Derek_Stephens___Field_Gulls_2014_Draft_Horizontal_Matrix_FINAL.pdf
If I were guessing what this year’s wide receiver chart would look like, Baldwin would probably have a second round grade, Richardson would have a second round grade, Kearse and Norwood would be 4th rounders. Maybe a 5th on Matthews and Lockette. Jimmy Graham would have a first round grade. Luke Willson would have a 4th round grade and McCoy has a 6th round grade.
Anyone who comes in will need to be able to compete at that level for a roster spot. DGB is the most likely field tilter but I do think they will let the draft come to them as they always do. I heard JS the other day ask if he should move up and get one guy or move back and get two guys. Both are viable strategies and I’m sure they have scenarios worked out for both.
Interesting that Justin Britt was rated rounds 5-7 on that chart.
Everybody seems to be into big hands for receivers. I get it. So I have a stat question (and I don’t know the answer). I’ll limit it to the the last five years. Name the player/s who fit/s this profile:
1. Best production (define as you wish)
2. Smallest hands
You are obviously setting up some gotcha answers. So I will just assume you will list smurf with tiny hands who are all-world, and surprise with a receiving god with small hands. Individuals vary. They each have tools. We and the pro scouts assess the tools, and give best guesses based on their measurables, their histories, and their learning curves. It’s imperfect.
Antonio Brown?
TY Hilton
Let’s reacquaint ourselves with Chris Matthews. 6-5 218. A 40 time of about 4.6.
Here is film of him with the Winnepeg Blue Bombers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfHpeaVUeA
We see him doing the expected. High point catches, jump balls, turn around catches facing the QB, boxing out. Simple routes, not technically detailed, but he gets away with it because he is the biggest dude on the field. He is not fast, just adequate.
It works.
What we are looking for in DGB is similar, but with more speed. Jaelen Strong can do it. Funchess can do it. Dezmin Lewis is physically quite comparable to Matthews and faster, can do it. So can other bigger WRs in this draft, all the way down to the Isaac Blaekeneys, Ian Hamiltons and Kenny Cooks in UDFA.
I think all the Hawks need is at least one more of this type. Doesn’t have to be DGB.
In my view I see us with several tall receivers, between the TE’s and the wide outs. What I don’t see are a lot of guys who can get open easily. We can put 3 towers out there with Graham, Matthews, and Willson, but do we have a clever route runner who can get separation? I know that many in here are in love with the idea of another big guy that Russell can throw the ball up to, but I want to see another Largent. A guy who is dependably open, whether he is big, fast, or merely talented.
Old, I think we are talking about different kinds of WRs, all of which this roster can include. It’s not either or. A tall Matthews type who plays above the rim, great. A guy with speed and separation regardless of size, great.
We may have differing opinions on the kind of WR that Russell Wilson works best with. That is the issue. I’m for placing all different options out there.
I love the huge targets, but for the vertical threat, I have a different list.
The more I watch Dres Anderson, the more I like him. He is dangerous, a big time game, a threat every time he gets the ball. Anderson is a leader, The Man on his team. In his junior year, he was the 50 yd+ plus leader, and PAC 12 YAC leader. I see him as a field flipper who has escaped notice because of his injury, available in rd. 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg4yalKG3Vk
Does he look a bit like Paul Richardson? Yes, and that’s not bad. He has more height and length than PRich.
He has a more polished game than Conley, one of my other picks for this type of WR.
He does look like a good choice for the Hawks! Thanks for posting it, as I hadn’t seen him yet.
If we could draft Tyler Lockett and Dres Anderson, we would have two new playmakers!
I’d way rather see us pick up Anderson than Funchess. He’s aggressive and elusive. Also had to wait on a lot of those downfield throws and did a good job tracking the ball. Great production. I’d be happy with Anderson and Montgomery. Can’t help thinking they’d push a few of our current WR’s out of a job.
Hawks haven’t picked up Bruce Irvin’s fifth-year option, rumours starting to swirl we might trade him to the Falcons. Say we traded him for their second round pick this year. Suddenly we’ve could start looking at:
2.42 – DGB
2.63 – Morse
While still keeping all of our fourth round picks, and all our 2016 ones. If Randy Gregory flies down the board like it’s being projected he will does he suddenly become an option in the third? Will Frank Clark still be around? Then with three fourth rounds picks we can get Ty Montgomery, whichever guard we like that’s still on the board and a RB.
It almost definitely won’t happen, and I really like Irvin, but it looks pretty tempting from where I’m sitting.