Zion Johnson could be on Seattle’s radar
Before getting into the piece — please don’t forget to listen to the Shelby Harris interview from earlier today (please share it if you can).
I’ve re-posted it at the bottom of this article.
— I think the Seahawks will take the best offensive or defensive lineman with their first pick. I don’t think they’ll target a quarterback in this class at #9. Sauce Gardner and Derek Stingley could also be options but ultimately I think they’ll plan to build through the trenches.
— I think the top realistic target is Jermaine Johnson at #9. He fits what the Seahawks like — he ran a 1.5 10-yard split and he has fantastic hands to disengage and disrupt. He’s quick to the edge and plays with intensity and violence. He has good length and size. He’s a potential heart-and-soul type who can help shape the identity of the team for the next few years. I just don’t think he lasts to #9, unfortunately. But I wouldn’t be shocked if Seattle’s ‘Plan A’ is Jermaine Johnson.
— If Johnson is gone and they do move down, trading down from #9 and then moving up from #40 feels distinctly possible.
— I would anticipate an early run on pass rushers and offensive linemen. Without the Ja’Marr Chase types and quarterbacks to fill the top of the board, I think teams in the top-10 will settle on getting one of the best pass rushers, pass protectors or cornerbacks. The premium positions.
— If a situation emerges where the top four pass rushers, Evan Neal, Ikem Ekwonu and Sauce Gardner are off the board (as expected) — I think it’ll come down to either taking a shot on Derek Stingley Jr or trading down. I really like the prospect of Stingley and with his pro-day tomorrow, he has a chance to repair his stock. Remember — he ran a 4.30 at SPARQ and jumped a 42 inch vertical. I wrote more about Stingley here.
— Potential trade partners include the Baltimore Ravens (who appear enamoured with Trevor Penning) and the LA Chargers (heavily linked to Jordan Davis but also a possible suitor for an offensive tackle). The Saints could also be an outside bet — or any other team seeking to draft a receiver with the Jets at #10 possibly targeting the position.
— Carolina could also have serious interest in moving down. Contrary to most national mocks, I don’t think they’ll draft a quarterback. The Head Coach Matt Rhule appears to be in a lame-duck season and Scott Fitterer the GM will be thinking longer term. They don’t have a pick in rounds two or three currently. Trading down — perhaps as far as the late teens or 20’s — could net the Panthers an extra 2023 first rounder and a day two selection this year. Then, they could still get an offensive tackle (Abraham Lucas? Tyler Smith?) and have the stock to pursue quarterbacks in 12 months time when Fitterer possibly has his own hand-picked Head Coach in place.
— It’s worth remembering that Scot McCloughan said three quarterbacks will be drafted in the first round but all three will carry third round grades. There will be reaches at the position (as usual) but that doesn’t mean they’ll necessarily go in the top-10. None of the quarterbacks in this draft are ready to start quickly.
— I sense teams with bridge quarterbacks (New Orleans, Pittsburgh) and teams with established ageing starters (Tennessee) will be in the QB market in round one because they can afford to sit a player and let him develop. Those three teams are also not expecting to be picking in the top-10 next year, with a realistic shot at the great 2023 quarterback class. I think the teams picking in the top-10 are simply in a very different place. If they draft a quarterback in that range there will pressure for that player to start quicker than he’s ready.
— What about Jordan Davis and Devonte Wyatt? I really like both players. However, the Seahawks have significantly bolstered their defensive front before the draft. It’s rare for a team to draft a ‘two-down nose tackle of the future’ and while I think Wyatt has tremendous potential as a dynamic interior rusher — I think edge rush and the offensive line will probably be the early focus.
— If the Seahawks do move down into the teens, they would be well placed to add a second-tier pass rusher or a plug-and-play offensive lineman. Zion Johnson has everything they look for — superb explosive testing results (ninth most explosive lineman to enter the league since 2016), he ran a 4.4 short shuttle and he has a perfectly proportionate frame with 34 inch arms. Pete Carroll kind of let the cat out of the bag that Gabe Jackson might be on the way out when he said he was in a competition with Phil Haynes. Drafting Johnson, who some call the best guard to enter the NFL since Quenton Nelson, would also allow you to move Damien Lewis back to right guard. I don’t think Johnson will go later than New England at #21.
— I’m not sure whether the Seahawks would make two high picks on the interior offensive line. However, Carroll’s glowing praise for Austin Blythe’s wrestling skills and his statement on trying a smaller center set off huge alarm bells for me. Tyler Linderbaum was an exceptional High School wrestler and he has an almost identical frame to Blythe. Let’s also remember that Blythe is a clear draft hedge, just as he was in Kansas City last year before they drafted Creed Humphrey. With recent reports from Tony Pauline suggesting Linderbaum could fall into round two, he’s one to watch. I said earlier that Plan A could be Jermaine Johnson at #9. To take it a step further, Plan A might be Johnson + Linderbaum.
— Personally I wouldn’t have any problem at all with double-dipping on the interior O-line. If you want to play Seattle’s brand of offense, why not try to be great in the interior? This isn’t a great tackle class but the options inside are impressive. There are no guarantees, of course, but Johnson-Linderbaum-Lewis is an exciting trio.
— What about tackle, where they have two gaping holes? Surely, at some point, they will sign someone. Duane Brown remains available, as does Brandon Shell. Reportedly Rasheed Walker is taking a visit to Seattle. He’s an accomplished talent with inconsistent play and a lack of testing results. Drafting him in the middle rounds to develop behind a returning Brown would make sense. It’s a good use of an official visit. Walker plays like he needs a rocket up his arse. It’s a chance to find out if he’s the right fit in terms of drive and character.
— Alternate O-line targets could include Trevor Penning, Abraham Lucas, Cam Jurgens, Cole Strange, Alec Lindstrom, Zach Tom, Tyler Smith and Logan Bruss. There are other good options too. As regulars know, I have a hard time imagining them taking Charles Cross in round one — an air-raid left tackle who doesn’t run block, jumped a 26 inch vertical and didn’t have much in the way of agility testing to compensate for it.
— The fact they haven’t added even a draft hedge of note at linebacker, plus Shelby Harris mentioning earlier that it’s an important position in Vic Fangio’s defense, makes me think it’s incredibly likely they will draft a linebacker on day two — probably with #40 or #41. That’s a real sweet-spot in terms of positional value. The key names that stand out for me are Channing Tindall, Leo Chanel and Quay Walker.
— The Seahawks need another running back and pick #72 screams ‘Dameon Pierce’. He has the same kind of attitude, energy and aggression as Thomas Rawls and he has the size, explosive traits and ability to run through contact. Seattle loves that. I think Zamir White could be an alternative due to his grit, physical power, quick acceleration to exploit gaps and finishing ability.
— If they don’t take a pass rusher at #9 they might need to wait until round three and beyond where there should be a cluster of developmental rotational players — such as Nik Bonitto, Dominique Robinson, Jeffery Gunter, Amare Barno, DeAngelo Malone, Christopher Allen and possibly Kyron Johnson and Tyreke Smith. There’s no further update on Adam Anderson’s legal case.
— I don’t think they’ll rush the quarterback position. They didn’t in 2010-12. I don’t see why they would now, in this class. I think the only way they’ll do it is if the right player falls to them in round two. Otherwise, I think they’ll wait until day three and consider Kaleb Eleby (who I interviewed yesterday) or Jack Coan. The other possibility, of course, is that they add Baker Mayfield to the competition for a late round pick.
— I think everything’s on the table with D.K. Metcalf but I believe the reports saying the Seahawks plan to keep him. I think it all comes down to whether or not someone makes a mind-blowing offer before the draft — such as the Jets offering #10 + #38. Otherwise, I think he’ll just stay in Seattle and they’ll talk contract after the draft.
— Some final thoughts. I certainly think the cost of the Uchenna Nwosu hedge is a big hint that they perhaps don’t think the top pass rushers will last to #9. I do think they will target the trenches early. I think their top pick will be the best O-liner or D-liner available on their board — possibly after a trade down. I think Austin Blythe is clearly a hedge and that we might see Gabe Jackson depart after the draft. I’m almost certain they will draft a running back quite early — although part of me also wonders if they call the Giants about Saquon Barkley. I think a quarterback competition will be the key this year, rather than a big splash at the position in the draft. Carroll saying having picks next year will influence decisions in this draft was, for me, another tell.
Shelby Harris interview
Please listen to the interview because Harris was on top form and will quickly become a fan favourite. Also check out the other recent interviews with Kaleb Eleby, Mike Florio, Jim Leavitt and Scot McCloughan.
Added Rasheed Walker and Kalon Barnes.
So the visits we know of so far are:
CB Percy Butler
CB Sauce Gardner
CB Kalon Barnes
QB Desmond Ridder
OT Rasheed Walker
DT Perrion Winfrey (?)
Seahawks visits/meeting/interest Tracker
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J3d023YdKp9MFv7OQTy0YTssJ65qLd_aB0UJFGVHxPY/edit#gid=218280452
If anyone knows of any more to add, let us know.
Curious about Ridder’s visit. Smokescreen for corral? Legitimate interest if he falls to the third round?
Like Hamilton I’m curious as to what’s the point of the visit. Perhaps glean info about Alec Pierce?
You’ve done ot again. Rob like a few other olinemen before though we can actually draft him I’m getting pumped on Zion Johnson.
FWIW greg cosell was on eisen’s show and thinks Jermaine Johnson is the best in this class.
I think with Ridder it’s just homework. They have great contacts close to Corral. They don’t with Ridder.
I’ve not seen anything to suggest Kyle Hamilton is visiting Seattle.
Not surprised.
I’m pleased we’ve been on top of a lot of things this year — that being a key one.
Correction just using the chart sea mode provided i read “meeting,” and took it as an official top 30.
If Jermaine Johnson is the best in this class. He probably not going to be available at 9.
I saw that Cossell interview mentioning Jermaine as the best pass rusher 3 years down the road. Other interesting viewpoints. Here is the link:
https://youtu.be/bnGICqroyrI
Wow. Who said that?
I’ve watched two scouting breakdowns where that was mentioned. So I should probably qualify — it’s not like an established source has said that. But I found the two video breakdowns reasonably produced and professional and one of the guys has a scouting background.
Seeing a lot of new love for JJ in other mocks Top 10- even as high as 5 recently. I think the the word is out. Bad teams do bad things in the draft and I’m still hopeful someone takes a QB or WR ahead of the Hawks which will allow one of the top premium position players to be available.
Rob, I’ve seen a lot of discussion on Linderbaum recently and less of Jurgens (other than the mention). Do you see Linderbaum as a clear head above the other centers?
Do we think Zion Johnson is to big(315 lbs)? If the Seahawks want to deploy what the Rams do on the OLine with smaller interior guys and larger tackles he may just be to big. Seems like he migh fit more with a Solari line.
David Edwards is 6-6 and 308lbs.
Austin Corbett is 6-4 and 306lbs.
Zion Johnson was 6-3 and 312lbs at the combine.
So… no.
“it’s incredibly likely they will draft a linebacker on day two — probably with #40 or #41. That’s a real sweet-spot in terms of positional value. The key names that stand out for me are Channing Tindall, Leo Chanel and Quay Walker.”
Rob, I know you aren’t a big fan of Nakobe Dean, but I think he would be a fantastic replacement for Bobby Wagner. He is a smart dude (mechanical engineering major) and has a ton of intangibles necessary to lead a defense and is incredibly instinctive at the MLB spot. Not sure he falls to 40-41, but maybe he slides a bit after not testing at the combine or pro day. I would be stoked if the Hawks could add a DE in the first round (Thibodeaux would be my dream choice) and then end up with Dean at the beginning of day 2.
The thing with Dean is he’s 5-11 and about 220lbs and hasn’t done any testing.
That’s a really hard sell.
Yep, but I think he showed enough on film to warrant interest. I go back to the intangibles with him, easy to see watching a few UGA games that he is a natural-born leader and someone that is almost another coach on the field.
But he’s also 5-11 and 220lbs.
And there aren’t many 5-11 220lbs linebackers. So you want to see some testing results. There are none.
And he got to play behind an incredible D-line.
I won’t be surprised if Dean sinks into round three. It’s too good a linebacker class and he’s had a nothing pre-draft process. Players like that, at that size, need to stand out.
Round 3? I will gladly take that bet! He showed more than enough on film to go top 50.
I didn’t propose a bet Sean. I said he could fall into that range and listed why.
You’re going to need to flesh out your argument a bit more than ‘great tape!’ because as I’ve said, he played on a fantastic team with an elite, elite D-line. He’s 5-11 and 220lbs or so. He has done zero testing. He is an outlier at that size so needs to do more in this process to shine. Other linebackers are out there who are bigger and they’re running 4.00-4.10 short shuttles and jumping +40 inch verticals.
You can’t just ignore all of this.
Well, I was hoping your 3rd round suggestion would lead to a friendly wager 🙂
I just think you are a bit too focused on the measurables with him and missing the intangibles and football IQ that he brings to a defense. Certain guys just have that “it factor”, and he is one of those guys. Also, see the numbers below, it’s hard to believe that after grading out so well playing in the best conference in college football, he will suddenly be overwhelmed at the next level due to being a little light in the pants.
Nakobe Dean in 2021:
🐶 91.7 PFF Grade (1st among SEC LBs)
🐶 91.3 Pass Rush Grade (1st)
🐶 90.4 Coverage Grade (1st)
🐶 80.4 Run Defense Grade (2nd)
These are just buzz words though Sean… it factor, football IQ.
I’m not sure why you can’t acknowledge that a 5-11 220lbs linebacker who hasn’t done any testing might drop, within a loaded linebacker draft.
I’m not too focused on anything. To me I’m stating the obvious.
And I’ll keep saying it. Play behind that DL at Georgia, in a three man linebacker rotation let’s not forget, and I’d expect good PFF grades.
Agree to disagree on this one. I’ll be hoping Seattle snatches him up if he does fall to 40/41…would be a perfect Bobby replacement IMO.
He’s not the perfect Bobby replacement though. He plays nothing like Wagner. Totally different players.
I can’t think of a worse comp from within this LB class.
Also, I am acknowledging a drop is possible for him due to the lack of testing, but all the way to the 3rd round is way too extreme. I’d be stunned if that happens.
It’s not way too extreme. And you’ve not said anything to counter anything I’ve said.
Intangible “good IQ” guys with good tape were very big in Tim Ruskell’s world. They usually start out of the gate a little faster because they’ve already peaked, but don’t last long in the league because their size or speed can’t match the big boys. They get pummeled and injuries mount. Lofa Tatupu is a pretty good example of that type, and I loved his heart and desire.
That combination of performance, size and testing, or lack of it, does seem to suggest a 3/4 grade to me. But we will see. It only takes one team, as the saying goes.
Maybe the dude is a taller Sam Mills, after all.
Assuming there will be some degree of blending of Pete Carroll’s beliefs with some new Fangio system influence moving forward thought this info might be relevant.
Jordyn Brooks is 6′ 240
Bobby Wagner is 6′ 242
KJ Wright payed off ball linebacker for years at 6’4″ 246
Vic Fangio’s last pick in the first round in Chicago was
Roquan Smith 6’1 232
Fangio’s ILBs in SF were
Patrick Willis 6’1″ 242
Navorro Bowman 6’1″ 230
Fangio’s staring ILB his last year in Denver
Josey Jewell 6’1″ 236
Alex Singleton 6’2″ 240
We can expect to see a player who is roughly 6’1″ 239 should they select an inside linebacker.
Oops, Bowman was actually 242 not 230
Looking at that list, it actually appears that most good linebackers fall within a very similar physical range, even if their wingspan or short area speed might differ.
Even Levon Kirkland, who was around 300 lbs when he played MLB for the Seahawks, showed up to the combine at 6’1″ 240lbs.
Turned down #10 for DK if you believe this article. Definitely not enough on its own I’d say.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-seahawks-turned-down-pick-no-10-overall-from-jets-for-metcalf/ar-AAVTF6C
I am officially ready for a resolution to this one way or another
Huge supporter of keeping him
Agreed. I have yet to see a legitimate case for trading DK. Multiple people have said that with Carroll’s run-first philosophy, it doesn’t make sense to pay a receiver big money. That is a flawed argument and I’d much rather see Seattle try to trade Lockett (yes, I know they will have to eat some money), as I am much more concerned about Lockett’s production post-Russ than I am DK. DK is a building block type player, a rare breed, you don’t trade guys like him for a draft pick or two.
Lockett will be just fine. He’s a vetter technician than DK and has performed well above his draft slotting.
Dk is a weapon that pete has wanted forever. Pete’s run first is about a breakaway threat. And DK is that in spades.
Lockett and Russ had a chemistry that will be extremely difficult to replicate with a new QB. Not sure a Lock or whoever is QBing will be able to find him in tight spaces like Russ consistently did, especially when the initial play broke down.
Lockett has a rare quality of being able to be where is supposed to be. He will make any QB better. A special chemistry? That is what they used to say about Steve Largent, first with Zorn and then with every other QB he played with.
Tyler does not have the star power of DK, but he may be more valuable.
I accept the argument that Metcalf’s production can be replaced and that this is a great draft for receivers. But I can also hear Shane Waldron arguing that while these other guys may be good, none of them will make a DC reach for the Ex-Lax like Metcalf does.
There’s also an argument that the current WR market is a bubble about to burst. Some say that WR draft classes will be good for the foreseeable future, meaning that the market is about to be flooded. If I’m an opposing GM considering an offer for DK, I have to ask myself how much I want to give up when I suspect that the position is overvalued.
This is shaping up as one of those cases where the player has a much greater value to his own team.
Metcalf doesn’t make DC reach for the Ex-Lax, he is not uncoverable. Metcalf is a physical freak who’s speed is uncanny for a guy his size. However, he doesn’t do a lot of things that make him uncoverable, he still makes the same mental mistakes he did as a rookie. His route running has not improved as most of us had hoped.
Read his draft profile on NFL.com and you will see he is still having many of the same issues he did coming into the league. I think he will always be a very good receiver, but I don’t know if he has the desire to do what it takes to become an elite receiver. His comments about wanting to make the olympic team still, makes me think his full focus isn’t on becoming a better receiver, but split between football and track.
Locket is a more complete receiver and embodies what Pete Carroll’s Seahawk players are, bring in some young guys from a loaded receiver class who fit more of the style of offense Waldron is going to run, and add in the trenches with pick aquired by moving on from Metcalf.
In no way do I dislike DK Metcalf, I just look at the Rams receivers and they are between 5-11 and 6-2, great route runners and willing blockers. Plus, it a run heavy scheme do the Hawks need to be paying $30M+ for 2 receivers?
Matt Hassellbeck disagrees with you. Given the choice of opinions, I’ll go with his. BTW, I never said that Metcalf was uncoverable.
If you believe all the hype about the Jets overwhelming desire to add a WR1, then you should also believe they will improve this offer for Metcalf. The Hawks may not want to trade Metcalf, but an offer of #10 and #38 would be hard to ignore. Perhaps they would also throw in a day 3 pick to sweeten the pot! This isn’t over, no way!
Or the #4 pick?
I agree. The Jets have a lot of draft capital this year to up their offer for DK.
They give us #10 and #38 and they get their need for WR1 in DK. This draft lines up really well with the Jets other needs, which are DE, CB, and LB.
So, they could end day two of the draft with the following players…
WR DK Metcalf
#4 DE Jermaine Johnson
#35 CB Kyler Gordan
#69 Brian Asamoah
“There are no guarantees, of course, but Johnson-Linderbaum-Lewis is an exciting trio”
the bitter side of me (at least 80% on a good day), wants them to come out of this draft with a stellar group of interior O lineman for nothing else but a giant middle finger to Russ/Mark Rodgers. Hell, trade Metcalf so we can get Penning and Lucas, too. Worth it.
Why is it Wilson’s fault they drafted ifedi, britt, pocic, traded for jackson, started drew nowak, tried to play some eastern european dlineman on offense, played starting RG glowinski on the left side and then let him walk, traded unger for no results, tried joey hunt to no avail, had george fant and let him walk, and then finally have a top ten pick which they only got because Wilson was traded after they traded two firsts including a top ten for a box safety?
I’m puttin a lot of blind hope that the FO after running this thing into the ground can build it again. But wilson being traded isn’t something people should be bitter about. JS right or wrong wasn’t going to sign him to a new contract. I wish nothing but the best for Wilson. Afc west is no joke. And our team right now is a bit of one.
Let us not forget the desperation signing of Luke Joeckel.
Ugh.
Not to mention FAs Bradley Sowell and J’Marcus Webb. Also, Russell Wilson didn’t make Tom Cable throw away a year of Ifedi’s development at guard.
I think that Pete Carroll had the best assessment of RW’s skills. But Russell lost confidence in the team being able to protect him, and I don’t blame him.
I’m cool with Russ.
But I like using your plan so we can run all over Wagner twice a year.
Hey rob have had a chance to study up on Kevin Harris out of south carolina, he has a very similar physical profile to chris Carson curious on your opinion of him. Thanks for all the hard work you do!
I haven’t yet fully — and you’ve just reminded me that I need to. So thanks.
Harris’s highlight for anyone wanting a quick look at him.
https://youtu.be/2OYTXt7XdUA?t=2
Hawks know more about Carson health it is more likely seahawks picks RB in 2nd round.
Pete King has Seahawks taking Derek Stingley at #9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dru9WQ8622Y
Is there a chance we trade down in teens and still get Derek Stiney ?
If they do trade DK, what do you think about Justyn Ross? He’s had some injuries, but as a freshman in the CFP he looked like a future top 10 pick.
Never been a big fan. He’s not fast enough
Ross has a similar frame to Tee Higgins, but obviously, the past few years have been rough for him. Might be damaged goods at this point.
My PFF Seahawks Draft:
SEA trades down with BAL: SEA gets (1:14, 3:76, 3:100, 4:110, 5:161), BAL gets (1:9, 5:153)
Sea trades down with NO: SEA gets (1:16, 3:98, 4:120, 5:161, NO gets (1:14)
Picks –
R1 (16): Travon Walker, Edge,
R2 (40): Travis Jones, DL,
R2 (41): Desmond Ridder, QB,
R3 (72): Josh Pascal, Edge,
R3 (76): Channing Tindall, LB
R3 (98): Kellen Diesch, T,
R3 (100): Zyon McCollum, CB,
R4 (109): Dohnovan West, C,
R4 (110): Zach Tom, OL,
R4 (120): Zamir White, RB,
R5 (152): Zaquandre White, RB,
R5 (161): Jaivon Heiligh, WR,
R6 (196): Tyquan Thornton, WR,
R7 (229): Jack Coan, QB,
This would be fun , no?
It’s also highly, highly unlikely
With Zion Johnson, they would pretty much corner the market on players whose first name begins with Z.
Walker will be a bust. A classic guy with great physical attributes who lacks technique and didn’t produce a ton in college. Whoever drafts him will be taking a massive risk.
Lacks technique?
Was that when they asked him to drop in coverage and break passes up at 275lbs (which he did)?
When I watch his film, I see a guy who doesn’t have many secondary moves to rush the passer. He is a specimen, no doubt, but I don’t want to take a guy in the top 10 who is that raw and didn’t have a ton of production in college. Too much projecting and relying on potential IMO.
Righteo
I guess people in the league are wrong about him then
Time will tell, Rob
Rob, would you mind re-posting your updated OL TEF (wTEF) scores again?
Maybe just in this chat (if possible)? Had a hard time tracking them down, thanks in advance!
A few have since been updated but they are here:
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/combine-day-two-recap-tef-scores-rb-targets
My apologies for not getting these up until now, but these are the photos/video I took at the Senior Bowl practice and the NFL Flag event.
https://twitter.com/AlbertBryanBut1
I understand that Zion Johnson is going to go early because of his measurables, but I would much rather have Cole Strange at 40 or 41. He was one of those EXOS guys working out at the James Andrews Institute and just about all of them in the picture kicked ass at the combine.
So cool. Glad you got these up and got to go to the senior bowl.
Man can’t wait for Draft day. Rob / All if Evan Neal is available at #9 is he no brainer ?
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/alabama-ot-evan-neal-falls-160053381.html
Evan Neal is a concern.
SPARQ: 40-5.60, ss-5.50 at 365lb.
Trent Brown at combine: 40-5.29, ss-4.78 at 355lb.
Neal refuses to do agility testing at combine and pro day.
I believe he knows his numbers are bad and does not want to diminish his draft stock.
There is a strong correlation between agility scores and the top performing offensive lineman with high pff scores, 40 times around 5 flat and short shuttle at 4.7 or better.
Thanks I hope DE like JJ is available and we select him. #9 should be great player not just good.
Evan Neal won’t get out of the top six. 100% lock.
I think you’re right. Because of the tackle shortage in this draft, I’m starting to think it might be better to trade down and take Penning and maybe still trade up for Zion.
Zion will go far too early to trade up for
I’m not a fan of this team taking Penning in R1
Speaking of Walker and arses, if you ever interview him you simply must ask him WTF he was doing on that one play
Bloody excellent material Rob! Really enjoyed your talk with Shelby.
Glad Shelby seems like a genuine good dude excited to be a Seahawk and already proven fit in the newish look defense.
Bleacher Report has an article out on DK Metcalf potential trade packages. I’m of the opinion that DK won’t be trade. Let’s say we get offered a NY Jet package that looks like this. This is one of the proposed trade packages in the article.
Trade Package: Jets send this year’s 10th (via Seattle), 38th (via Carolina), 117th (via Minnesota) and 163rd (via Pittsburgh) overall picks to the Seahawks for Metcalf
That’s a nice package, but now you have the task of replacing D.K.. I don’t see a replacement in this year’s draft. If Jaxon Smith-Njigba from Ohio State was available in this year’s draft and we had a path to draft him, then I’d say okay to trading D.K..
Wide receiver is one of the few areas that’s not a liability. Why make it one now by trading away D.K.?
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2954990-potential-trade-packages-landing-spots-for-seahawks-star-dk-metcalf
Well, firstly, ‘Bleacher Report’.
Secondly, it’s about resource management. There are plenty of games where this team hasn’t fed the ball to Metcalf. It might be best to turn him into 3-4 picks, save $25m and plough that resource into the trenches.
You don’t have to agree but it’s a line of thinking. I don’t mind either way frankly.
I’d be interested in seeing how Drew Lock preforms when he has a full arsenal of proven weapons to throw to. I feel like if we keep DK then that will help the coaching staff to fully evaluate Lock.
“That’s a nice package, but now you have the task of replacing D.K.. I don’t see a replacement in this year’s draft.” I have seen this argument a few times and I’m of the opinion we don’t need to find another DK in the draft. We would just need to find another WR to stretch the field, and there are going to be a handful of WRs just in this years draft, in rounds 2 and 3 that can do that.
In that scenario, I’D take the trade and launch the rebuild. You don’t need to “replace” DK. You rebuild the roster starting with the lines. Get a couple very solid WR’s to add to Lockett. DK wasn’t the center of this offense, nor will he be.
Good article
https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft-strongest-position-group-weakest
It’s incredible how low Zierlein is on Abraham Lucas, ‘Heavy legged and lumbering in the run game’, and this from the prospect who showed more agility than any other Tackle prospect at the combine? He has him behind Nick Petit-Frere and Max Mitchell in his rankings!
It is weird to me how experts knock Abe Lucas and praise Charles Cross. They say Ole Abe played in an air raid type of offense. Didn’t Cross play in that same system the past couple of seasons? Shouldn’t the concern be the same? Cross is praised for his pass protection and that makes him a top 10 worthy pick. Lucas isn’t? Lucas is bigger and more athletic.
In reality they both aren’t the best run blockers. One played in the SEC and the other the Pac-12. I don’t know. We’ll see where both players go and how they do in their pro careers.
Having played with mock drafts quite a bit, pairing a LG, C has definitely become a go to so excited to see you talk about it.
If we resign Duane, and add a rookie LG, C to compete and go with Lewis, RG Curhan, RT that could be a pretty good unit by seasons end.
I’d feel much better going into 2023 needing a new LT if we have $$$ to chase a FA, Forsyth develops one more year, or a better draft class for LT’s if the rest of the line is relatively settled.
If DK did end up getting traded for 10,38
The trade up for Jermaine, down for Zion, and then snag a top linebacker, center, and WR sounds pretty damn good.
The rest of the draft can go to finding corners, running back, tight ends, safeties etc which seems like it would play into the board really well.
After decades of buying every draft magazine I could find and the ProFootball Weekly guides, and so on, it is so much more fun now to have this source to feed my needs.
For me the #9 pick is the most straight forward. If one of a handful of players is not there, then trade down. If one is there, you take him. From there my thinking becomes muddier than usual.
I am approaching this as a 2 year rebuild, reload, strategic adjustment, or whatever. Depth and starters needed on both sides of the ball. Players they select will need to develop, and offensive players take long than do defensive players (an argument for another time), so maybe we should concentrate on offensive picks this draft and do defense next year.
On the other hand, if, as some have suggested, we ended up with say, 3 offensive linemen, it would be dangerous to have more than one of them as a starter, and when contracts come up, the team will have 3 contracts to do at one position group. That doesn’t make it impossible, but is a consideration.
More telling, for me, is that this is an interesting defensive class, and it seems more likely to find an impact player or 3, among them. For example, I visualize Nick Cross having a bigger impact than, say, Dameon Pierce. Yup, we need a RB more than we need a Safety.
And, then, there are the players. J Johnson, Thibodeaux, Z Johnson, Lucas, Tindall, Linderbaum, Jurgens, Chenal, Q Walker, Cine, S Williams, Mafe, Ojabo, Anderson, etc, and if you take one, if affects who you take next. Take Linderbaum, you won’t take Jurgens.
Anything can happen. And it probably will.
On the three contracts up at the same time. Definitely a consideration. However just doing a quick glance at contracts on “over the cap,” for interior guys the top nanes you can think of….such as Scherff, Jensen, Ragnow tgey are all making about or even slightly less than Jamal Adams.
Without this being about him cause 1. I’m over it. And 2. Odds are he’ll be gone in three years….
If there was a universe where two or even three oline were drafted this year AND by the time they were in their middle 20’s and they were a combination if first and second team all-pro’s not just pro bowlers and seattle could lock all of them up for another four years to the tune of around $20 million a year each….I’d be pretty ecstatic.
Best case scenario they draft two( zion Johnson, linderbaum -or- jurgens) Damian Lewis goes back to RG. If a combo of those three all become pro bowlers adjusted for football inflation they would more realistically be around 15-17 million a year. After a decade of bungling the line if you offered me three probowl level interior players in their middle twenties for around $50 million a year for all three….yes, please.
IMO, pay your o-lineman. Then draft a RB in the 1st round once every 5 years.
Rob, what are your thoughts on Jameson Williams? I know we may not be looking at WR as a need, but McShay compared him to Tyreek Hill and said if his ACL tear didn’t happen, he would be the top WR in the class. As always, greatly appreciate your time and effort on this site. I read it every friggin day my man!
I love Jameson Williams. Really quick and dynamic. WR1.
Not that it matters, seeing as i doubt hes an option for us, but are you not at all concerned why he transferred from OSU to Bama this year? Looks like he was #4 on their depth chart and had issues with drops. I guess similar question could be asked about Will Levis who was also a transfer to Kentucky after getting beat out at Penn State (or not fitting their system as much). Im really interested to see how Levis performs this year, knowing you are highest on him out of all 2023 QBs.
Not really —- OSU loaded at WR and Joe Burrow was once buried on OSU’s depth chart
I’m much higher on Phil Haynes than others it seems. Despite being cut at the start of the last season, he worked his way into a starting role, at about the same time as Penny’s running game really started to take off. He’s just received a new 2 year contract extension, perhaps last season was as much about showing the staff he can remain fit for 17 games. From memory he also had a high TEF score after his pre draft testing?
I think the Seahawks might have him pencilled in for a prominent role in 2022?
He didn’t so much as work his way into a starting role as ‘fill in’
He also hasn’t signed a two-year deal. He’s on a one-year contract
I don’t know why I thought it was a 2 year contract. I was pretty sure in my own mind it was 2 years, which was why I didn’t check. Stand corrected.
However, I still remain high on his play toward the end of last season. Arguably at a time when the Offensive Line were playing their best football of the season. He was the interior lineman playing at the highest level.
If he was to play himself into a starting role, it would also make sense to have him play on the left side, as he did in college, and Lewis on the right, as he did in college.
Rob quick question for you how many first rounds grades do you have this year? I could really see major surprise’s in this year draft . Guys I think maybe round 2 guy jumping in to round one. And one more question for you Rob the Seahawks like guys from Florida the Last 2 years Freddie Swain and Stone Forsythe any thoughts on day 3 guys from Florida and make it 3 years in a row
11 what I’d call legit R1 and several other R1/R2 types
Jeremiah Moon could be a good Florida option on day three
Great write-up Rob
Hoping we get a real difference maker at a premier position with our first pick.
Know there is an element of managing expectations but cannot believe with a #9 pick, we end up drafting a guard (albeit in a possible trade down) ?!
Mind you I’m not adverse to adding OL but think the drop off isn’t much after R1 and we can get some quality players in the later rounds like Cole, Juergens, Walker, Lucas etc.
Pulling for a blue chip pass rusher, CB or DT with our first pick even if a trade up is required.
Couple of questions from me:
– Does any QB go top 10 and what are the odds ? Other non-lineman prospects?
– Could Ojabo or Mafe be had at 40 or in a moderate trade-up ?
Yeah, turning #9 into a guard isn’t exactly an exciting pick. But if they sort out this OL once and for all, happy days. Dallas’ great line had Zack Martin and Travis Frederick dominating up front. If Zion & Linderbaum can create something similar, that works for me.
But I also love the idea of taking a shot on Derek Stingley and him delivering on his immense potential. Or, of course, landing a Jermaine Johnson.
I don’t think a quarterback goes top-10 but we’ll see.
I think Mafe will be gone. Ojabo might be there for a trade up but it comes down to how much you want a player who won’t play in 2022. I’d rather draft for impact.
Disagree slightly. Though not as exciting as Stingley/johnson zion + new center+ Lweis at RG opening holes for penny who needs to get up to speed or a wrecking ball like pierce woud get me pretty excited. I like but don’t love the modern NFL but do kind of love being able to drain the clock on teams. Being able to slow the game down and give more chances for shelby “everyone eats,” harris, nwosu, and taylor to get after it could prove to be very exciting when the other team has to get more aggressive to stay in it.
Sure but you’re talking about it producing results. I’m talking about how people will react to the pick
Totally see that. People want the flash. Heck I do. Partially I’d be stoked because frankly I’m sick of you talking about olinemen that always move up past seattle about 3 weeks before the draft.
Keeps your defense off the field for longer stretches too Peter. A fresh D is always a faster D and a faster D is always a better D.
Whatever their plan I just hope they don’t end up trading down in smaller increments and getting like mid 4th round or later picks in return – seriously hope someone in the organization has looked back on the (lack of) success with those picks since the early days and had a wise word or two to share with the draft room strategy this go around.
For instance the infamous L.J.Collier draft of 2019. We were sitting on picks 21 and 29(courtesy of Frank Clark). So we traded pick 21 to Green Bay for pick 30 and two 4th round picks, why would you do that? Why not ask for a single higher pick? After that trade there was a huge run on d-liners with trade ups to cut in front of us to get them etc. So we lost our on a chance at a better graded player and got stuck with Collier. Oh and two 4th rounders that might become marginal backups in time(wr Gary Jennings cut before the start of the season and Phil Haynes who so far has achieved said marginal backup status). We then even traded down from 30 again for a 4th and 5th to select a problem child in Malik McDowell (which severely bit us in the ass for years – a wasted pick/carrying his salary, then the Clowney saga) and with the later picks Ben Burr Kirven and Ugo Amadi – again marginal backup types.
Please John only trade back from pick 9 if you get a single earlier round three or higher pick back and don’t move back at all from picks 40 and 41! Don’t get taken on a lesser deal or multiple higher picks just because you want to trade back so badly. There is a real reason why picks are worth less and less the farther you get from pick number 1….
Think they took Marquis Blair with that second trade down, not McDowell, but completely agree with your point
I would normally agree with you but this draft is an exception. In part due to Covid and the extra year of eligibility, there are an unusual amount of quality players in this draft. Just doing the mocks and seeing what’s out there – there are really good players available later in the 4th round. I’d definitely say the quality of 4th rounders are going to be like 3rd rounders in a normal year.
I do’t disagree with this at all.
Six picks with maye a teade down in round one for a third so let’s call it seven.
And 10 picks in 2023.
Talent is the word of the day. This team is almost devoid of premium talent at all positions. With 16 total picks and a potentially big old chunk of money next free agency they *should* be able to revitalize this team quickly.
Too much watering down of draft and free agency resources to load up on day 3 picks and journeymen. I forgot who (maybe Jimmy Johnson? Parcells?) said something like you need around 8 pro bowl caliber guys. So they’re about 1/3 of the way. They need at least 2 blue chippers from the next 2 drafts. If they can’t get a stud at 9 and don’t have a top 10 next year they might be stuck in 7-10 mode. Would the Bengals have made a rapid turnaround without getting the number one pick? Pete won’t allow that. He’ll extol his running game that crushes a few minnows while they crush us in the draft pecking order.
8 pro bowlers is probably pretty accurate. So many teams have been able to benefit from top talent. Even Seattle back when. If they get to 7-10 with their soft schedule I think that still gives them a top ten pick. But I catch your meaning.
I’m opposed to too much trading down because it’s been far too long for tgat to have mattered meaningfully in roster construction. If the team had been finding locketts’ and wrights’ for a decade I’d probably be more into it.
It’s been mentioned by either Simms or cowherd or other but Seattle has drafted something like 3 probowlers in 6 years. Of course it’s awesome if you trade from 40 to 50 and get a fourth and that guy is awesome. But for me to have that mean abything that lower second round pick AND the fourth need to be awesome. Not good for their round. Not okay. But awesome for it too be worth it.
Stefon Diggs has now agreed a contract worth $25m a year
This market isn’t going anywhere — and this is why the Seahawks have a big decision to make
We got a good deal on Jamal! Pete and John are so smart.
Very interesting.
Diggs had two years left on his contract. Reports are they squeeze themselves under the cap with this deal, so I’m wondering how much of it is an actual real life extension – which would tie him to the Bills until he’s 34 – or replacing the two years of his deal for 4 total years.
At any rate, Diggs will turn 29 right about the time DK will turn 25 this year.
If DK plays his cards right, he could get 3 full veteran contracts in his career.
Rob, I’m curious: To what extent do you think that this rebuild is not only about adding talent, but also about resetting or re-establishing the culture?
Yes, I think that’s definitely part of this too.
In that case, do you think that the Seahawks will value players who are widely considered culture setters, like Dameon Pierce or Josh Paschal, more highly than the rest of the league?
I’m not sure about that so much — I think they will like a lot of players because of that but ultimately they need talent
If they are trying to reset the culture, they would have gotten rid of Jamal Adams already.
💯
I think the re-signing of Diggs and Woods as well as the trade for Harris were clearly culture / leadership moves. The only thing I worry about is how can any defense be considered tough and nasty with a Peacock as the highest paid player. LOB SS Chancellor / 2022 Hawks SS Peacock.
Well if Adams is used in the box to attack ball carriers and QBs near the LOS he can at least be a peacock that gets in the way. You do kind of have to waste a bit of time going around peacocks with all their wide plumage. They’ve discussed this, ie having players moving forward and attacking instead of backtracking. Having him cover deep downfield last season was a strange mistake akin to dropping ends into coverage, except that as an All-Pro safety some might have expected him to be able to do it.
Culture is also partly why they paid a premium price to retain ‘uncle Will’, no?
🙄
Good chance that the following are gone at #9
– 4 edge rushers (Hutchinson, Walker, Thibodeaux, Johnson)
– 2 offensive line (Neal, Ekwonu)
– 2 cornerbacks (Gardner, Stingley)
Leaving a choice between the best players being Hamilton a safety that they have invested lots of money into the position, or receiver (Wilson) where if they keep Metcalf means that they have a lot on money invested in that position with him and Lockett.
I think that if any of the above 8 are still available at #9 they take that person.
If not, then it comes down to a couple of options.
If they believe Wilson can replace Metcalf maybe they take the best deal offered to them and take Wilson and use the picks from Metcalf to build up the other positions.
Or they trade down. I think that if they trade down they would want to fill between that pick and #40 one asset of the offensive line and one on the defensive line.
If you can get one of the three from each of the buckets
OL – Lucas, Johnson, Linderbaum
Edge – Mafe, Ojabo, Bonito
#41 will be a linebacker in Chenal, Tindall
#72 will be a running back in Pierce, White
Any additional picks from trading down will be used to add to the OL
try to get one or two from the bucket of – Jurgens, Strange, Tom
They won’t take a WR top 10
Good chance? I’d say HIGH chance at least one of those guys are available at #9, specifically Neal or Stingley. But, I don’t think Seattle takes a corner at 9, Pete and Schneider have never taken a corner that high and I don’t believe it is part of Pete’s philosophy. Hamilton won’t be an option due to how much money they have already wasted/invested in the position, receiver won’t be the direction they go that early assuming Metcalf, Lockett, and Eskridge are still on the team. So, that leaves OL or DL.
My worry is that we find it hard to trade down in that scenario.
If those players are all gone, then who are you coming up to get? Panthers / Giants are also open for business, so anyone dumb enough to want a QB in the top 10 will likely push to get into that range to be sure of getting their guy.
From there, a wr? There’s great depth there. O line? Same deal, nobody dynamic enough to take at 9. Guess the hope is that someone wants Jordan Davis or Kyle Hamilton badly.
I am of the opinion that we take the best edge, or lineman available at 9. If we trade down into the latter 1st I am fine with that, add stock and depth. Plug resources into the trenches with that capital.
at 40, and 41 get the linebacker that is going to attack like a heat seeking missle(Tindall, Walker). Quite frankly someone who plays like they have their hair on fire. The Georgia defense is loaded, I would be fine with 2 or 3 of their guys from last years squad
at 72, we need a RB. Its been too long counting on Penny and Carson, with the way Pete wants to play ball control, we need the RB of the future along with depth at the position which we have lacked for years.(Pierce, White(
Find players who play with violence, passion and hunger for the game!
Save capital for next years draft to invest in QB
Interesting article over on the Athletic saying that Davante Adams called the Packers coach & GM and told them he would never play for them again. Basically forced his way out of GB and got to go where he wanted…now he gets to play with his college QB in Carr…
Also talked about the Eagles-Saints trade and why it happened now, so early before the draft. Last year the Saints didn’t have the picks to move up and get Mac Jones, who they wanted. So this year they are making sure they can either get one of the QB’s in the middle of the 1st if they drop, or be able to move up again if needed. However, this may make teams like the Panthers and others wary of dropping back knowing the Saints are most likely going to target a QB. It may also spur the Steelers into being more aggressive to move up as well. And while the QB’s are underwhelming for sure, teams still need one and are willing to pay to get the one they want.
Going to be very interesting to see if any of these teams get really aggressive after one of these QB’s and moves into the top 10 for one.
Great interview with Shelby, Rob. Super interesting to hear his perspective on trades, team culture, etc. One thing I couldn’t help but think was when he was talking about fake leadership, is that Russ? I think many would say so…
He’s never played with Russ but possible. I’m wondering if maybe a message to the peacock tho. Word about other teams’ players gets around the league.
Athletic’s Jets beat reporter clocking in
https://twitter.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1511724900037402626
That was message from Hawks that we need more than 1st round pick if you are going make an offer for DK.
Just a reminder I’m on Jake & Stacy again today
Energy level ramped up to 11 to talk about this draft class
Approx time?
Thanks Rob for the reminder, looking forward to the segment!
ROB, could you ask Jake a question for me? Does he regret his college decision out of high school and wher does he think he should have gone in retrospect? He bombed in college at BYU.
Here is an article I read few years back about Jake Heaps, should answer your questions. His dream school was UW but parents forced him to BYU.
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/high-school/despite-struggles-on-and-off-field-ex-skyline-star-qb-jake-heaps-still-chasing-his-dream/
Feels like top 10 draft prospects varies a lot. I hope we can get good DE with our #9.
https://www.nfl.com/news/gil-brandt-s-hot-100-ranking-top-prospects-in-2022-nfl-draft-class
Yep…don’t be surprised if the momentum drops off a bit for Travon Walker in the weeks leading up to the draft. Gotta see the full picture with him; he is a physical freak, but also someone who only had an 11% pass rush win rate at Georgia (Thibodeaux’s was 23%) and his production was marginal at best. Seahawks may have a decision to make if he falls to #9.
Hawks needs to be clear who they want to pick on #9 as other teams will force their hand by offering less. I would not worry about position, just pick best player.
Travon Walker is the Michael Bennett that Pete has been looking for. Too bad we are no longer a 4-3 defense now.
I would like to see Walker drop to 260 -265 lbs and play OLB for us. Seeing Walker at top speed hitting a ball carrier is Kam esque.
I wonder if the peacock could be made to listen to what Shelby said about leadership.
Appreciate the interview Rob
New coaches should shine the peacock so we can trade him next year for 3rd round 🙂
Seattle checking out the top CBs for sure
Though Nagy reported 4.37:
https://mobile.twitter.com/JimNagy_SB/status/1511742473374248967
That’s a legit athlete, not bad at all. Should help his stock
That’s a legit athlete, not bad at all. Should help his stock.
Tre Brown has 30 3/8 ” arm length, FWIW
Sorry for the double up, there :/
Those are great numbers! It proves he is plenty athletic enough. However, I think it also shows he is not fully healthy or doesn’t have his legs under him. He is capable of a lot more based on the numbers he put up in the past.
For those who wanted to move on from Myers to save cap room:
I’ve taken him late in many of my PFN mock drafts. Seems worth a late pick in a rebuild to compete.
Even though this is right from Reddit, this could also be why there were whispers of Kayvon Thibideaux’s fall. Maybe it could be a Tunsil situation or even worse La’el Collins.
“I said this the other day but it’s worth repeating… My bro is on staff of the Oregon Football team and there was a non reported off the field incident involving Thibs which occurred last year. A judge just ruled to allow the report to be made public, so expect a little bomb dropping just before draft day. He’s gonna slide BIG time.
Edit. Forgot to add, Schefter has been sniffing around our program the last few months and he has the inside track on the story. He’s waiting to get more info from the DA before he does his expose on ESPN. Shits gonna get messy. I feel for Thibs bc he’s apparently a really good kid.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/txb5ds/comment/i3kvot7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
I’m allowing this comment so people can read the Reddit thread (which exists) and be aware of it. But please — let’s not take this as fact. It could be a malicious, disgusting rumour.
Anyone got a time yet for Rob on Jake & Stacey?
If the Jets do give us #10 and #38 for DK, who would be your best choices at the following picks?
I really like the following not only for their talent, but also for their ability to establish the culture that we want.
9 – Jermaine Johnson FSU
10 – Zion Johnson (after trade back) BC
38 – Chanel LB Wisconsin
40 – McCreary CB Auburn (I read an article from Arizona where they thought he was the next Aeneus Williams).
41 – Lucas OT WSU – start at right tackle
72- Pierce RB Florida
80 – Tolbert WR South Alabama – Has been the big play outside receiver for his team the last 2 years.
109 – Zach Tom C – gives us competition at C and interior line depth.
Add this with resigning Duane Brown to start at LT and I like our potential.
I think we also trade for Baker Mayfield for a 6th rounder. I’m hoping that we hit on one of Lock or Mayfield to be an above average “point guard” at qb.
Let me know your thoughts!
Go Hawks!!
Any Troy Andersen fans? 6’4 240s played qb, rb, lb. Incredible athlete. Highlights look like he was playing against pop warner players. As a rb he has some juice in the open field running away from others. I would love to get him and Chenel.
Terrific player, great fun to watch
I like Stingley, but why do people keep giving him a pass for 2020 the Covid year? There are a lot of players that graded well that year.