If the Seahawks need to replace Bruce Irvin it could be with a very different player
#1 Cleveland Browns — Joey Bosa (DE, Ohio State)
There’s no can’t-miss prospect at #1, certainly not at quarterback. It’s impossible to project what the Browns do here. Do they simply take a new QB? Or does a perennially bad franchise just go for the best player?
#2 Tennessee Titans — Jaylon Smith (LB, Notre Dame)
The Titans have a quality left tackle and they’re fifth in the NFL for sacks (34). Smith is just an incredible, athletic modern-day linebacker. He’ll fit into any scheme. Playmaker.
#3 San Diego Chargers — Laremy Tunsil (T, Ole Miss)
The Chargers badly need to repair their offensive line. Tunsil performed well against Texas A&M’s Myles Garrett and is ready to turn pro. His kick-slide, power in the run game and willingness to get to the second level make him an intriguing prospect.
#4 Jacksonville Jaguars — Robert Nkemdiche (DE, Ole Miss)
The Jaguars have a decent collection of talent — now it’s just a case of bringing it all together. Nkemdiche could end up being a Michael Bennett for this defense — lining up at end before kicking inside in NASCAR packages.
#5 Baltimore Ravens — Tre’Davious White (CB, LSU)
White has it all — coverage skills, smooth hips, athleticism. He’s a good kick-returner. He was awarded the coveted #18 jersey at LSU for this season. Teams are going to love his tape and character. He will go early.
#6 New Orleans Saints — Paxton Lynch (QB, Memphis)
If Sean Payton departs at the end of the season — will Drew Brees follow? They are on the verge of a major rebuild. Brees’ cap hit in 2016 is a staggering $30m — they can save $20m by cutting him. A new coach might start with his own guy at QB.
#7 Dallas Cowboys — Jaylen Ramsey (CB/S, Florida State)
Ramsey has some nice tape to go along with some iffy stuff too. He’s shown he can play corner and safety. The combine will help teams analyse his best position at the next level. He could be a rangy free safety.
#8 Detroit Lions — Shon Coleman (T, Auburn)
For me he’s the best tackle in the SEC and the most underrated player in the country. Cancer survivor. He can kick-slide, dominate in the power-run game, explode into a linebacker at the second level. He has a mean-streak. Love him.
#9 San Francisco 49ers — Taylor Decker (T, Ohio State)
Will Joe Staley move on? Will Alex Boone move on? The 49ers O-line is bad enough as it is without losing their two most experienced bodies. Decker could be a good replacement for Staley at left tackle.
#10 St. Louis Rams — Laquon Treadwell (WR, Ole Miss)
The Rams have turned into a mess and who knows what happens next. Do they draft a quarterback here? It’s perhaps more in Jeff Fisher’s nature to find a veteran who can hold things together (Drew Brees?) and give them a weapon.
#11 Miami Dolphins — Eli Apple (CB, Ohio State)
The Dolphins are weak at cornerback and this could be a sweet-spot at the position. Apple has good size, keeps plays in front of him and limits the damage. Occasionally he’ll make a very sharp break on the football. Has the potential to be great.
#12 New York Giants — DeForest Buckner (DE, Oregon)
It’s not often discussed because Oregon has had a relative down year but Buckner has 9.5 sacks in 2015. He’s a better player than Arik Armstead (#17 overall pick this year). The Giants need something — anything — on defense.
#13 Oakland Raiders — Cameron Sutton (CB, Tennessee)
Another team struggling at corner. D.J. Hayden hasn’t worked out and their best defensive back has just turned 39. Sutton is a fantastic athlete and just looks the part. Expect a big jump after the combine.
#14 Philadelphia Eagles — Jack Conklin (T, Michigan State)
It’s hard to know what the Eagles are going to do. Are they the most unpredictable team in the league? One week imploding, the next exploding in New England. Is Chip Kelly staying or going? Conklin could move inside to guard.
#15 Chicago Bears — Darron Lee (LB, Ohio State)
Lee’s underrated. Simple as that. He’s always around the ball. He’s not the same athlete as Ryan Shazier but they have a similar style. This is the range where Shazier was drafted.
#16 Tampa Bay Buccaneers — Corey Coleman (WR, Baylor)
They have bigger needs but just imagine Jameis Winston throwing to Mike Evans and Corey Coleman. You can build a franchise around that. Vincent Jackson is coming to the end of his distinguished career.
#17 Atlanta Falcons — Myles Jack (LB, UCLA)
He suffered a knee injury during the season and it could impact his ability to flash pre-draft. Jack has good range and could play inside or outside linebacker in the Falcons’ defensive scheme.
#18 Buffalo Bills — Andrew Billings (DT, Baylor)
I’ve warmed up to Billings. He’s probably the best penetrating DT in this class. He can cause some havoc at times. He’s not at the same level as Sheldon Richardson or Aaron Donald, however.
#19 Houston Texans — Jared Goff (QB, California)
A no-brainer pick really. They need an answer at quarterback. They can’t keep drifting along. Goff has some inspired play on tape — he can be a surgeon. He needs to be less erratic and more controlled. Bill O’Brien needs ‘his guy’. Don’t sleep on Carson Wentz.
#20 Pittsburgh Steelers — Germain Ifedi (T, Texas A&M)
A powerful, athletic looking tackle who moves well. There’s a ton of potential here. He played very well against Ole Miss. The Steelers have shown over the last few years they’re willing to go O-line early and wait on cornerbacks.
#21 Washington — Michael Thomas (WR, Ohio State)
If Pierre Garcon moves on they’re a bit limited at receiver. They still have a ton of needs. Thomas is big and fast — and he’s very good at getting open. He could be a #1 at the next level. Kirk Cousins is the type of QB who needs help.
#22 Indianapolis Colts — Mackensie Alexander (CB, Clemson)
Vontae Davis is solid — but the defense still needs work overall. Adding a cornerback partner would be a good start. What can the Colts hang their hat on when it comes to the defense?
#23 New York Jets — Tim Williams (DE, Alabama)
He’s having a great year and I didn’t realise until this week he is draft eligible. He has 9.5 sacks for the season and is a classic 3-4 outside rusher. The Jets defense could use some extra speed off the edge.
#24 Kansas City — Will Fuller (WR, Notre Dame)
He said he would return to Notre Dame and then asked to hear from the draft committee. It makes sense for Fuller to turn pro — he’s ready. Such a fun player to watch. Incredibly dynamic. Why not add a wing-man for Jeremy Maclin?
#25 Seattle Seahawks — Miles Killebrew (S/LB, Souther Utah)
See below for thoughts on this pick.
#26 Minnesota Vikings — De’Runnya Wilson (WR, Mississippi State)
They are kind of tied to Teddy Bridgewater — a limited quarterback. Stefon Diggs is a nice speed option but they don’t have an outside safety-net. Wilson is similar to Kelvin Benjamin.
#27 Green Bay Packers — Adolphus Washington (DT, Ohio State)
There are times where he looks unstoppable — and times where you barely notice he’s on the field. Washington’s best fit at the next level could be D-end in a 3-4 scheme. He’s a versatile player who can line up in different defensive fronts.
#28 Arizona Cardinals — Ezekiel Elliott (RB, Ohio State)
It’d almost be unfair if a team as complete and ready as the Cardinals had a weapon like Elliott fall into their laps. I’m not convinced he’ll go early in round one. That’s good for him. He can go to a contender and have an instant impact.
#29 Cincinnati Bengals — Desmond King (CB, Iowa)
Pacman Jones can’t go on forever. King is a feisty cornerback with a powerful lower-body and the ability to shed a block and contribute in the run-game. He’s a ball-hawk too with eight interceptions in 2015.
#30 Denver Broncos — Ronnie Stanley (T, Notre Dame)
After failing to land Joe Thomas, tackle could be a target for the Broncos in round one. I’m not a fan of Ronnie Stanley — he looks stiff, he offers nothing at the second level and that Shaq Lawson de-pantsing is difficult to shake off.
#31 Carolina Panthers — Tyler Boyd (WR, Pittsburgh)
Boyd is just a really good receiver. Great skills as a route runner. Pittsburgh’s best playmaker by far. Look at the way he gave Iowa fits this year. He can be a nice compliment to Kelvin Benjamin and Greg Olsen.
So what about the Seahawks?
I wanted to get Miles Killebrew on the podcast this week with this mock draft in mind. I wanted people to see where I’m coming from considering the projection has a defensive back from Southern Utah in the first round.
When you listen to Killebrew speak — it’s clear he has an infectious passion for the game. And that shows up on tape. Combine that with his size (6-2, 230lbs) and 4.4 speed — and you’re looking at a very intriguing prospect.
He’s been invited to the Senior Bowl where I expect he’ll impress. The combine will be big. I will make the case for why the Seahawks might draft him early — and why he might go as early as day one.
The Seahawks had a fifth-year option on Bruce Irvin’s contract that would’ve paid him $7.8m in 2016. I thought they were going to take it. Irvin became quite the playmaker in 2014 and $7.8m isn’t exactly a hideous amount for a player that has provided sacks and picks over the last 12 months.
Irvin could command a salary worth around $7-8m per year on the open market. By not taking up the option, that to me suggests the Seahawks are willing to let him test the market and find out exactly how much he’s worth. That obviously lends itself to the possibility he signs elsewhere. The Falcons are projected to have $15m in free cap space. Irvin is from Atlanta and Dan Quinn is coaching the Falcons. It’d make a lot of sense. There will be other suitors.
That doesn’t mean an Irvin extension is out of the question. This week Davis Hsu put together an off-season projection that included a new deal for Irvin and letting J.R. Sweezy walk:
Here is one way you could build an $81M 2016 Defense (again Irvin 1st year cap hit would be low) @robstaton pic.twitter.com/zSMOJT35vb
— DAVIS HSU (@DavisHsuSeattle) December 7, 2015
Here is how SEA can build a $61M Offense (would include Lynch dead $) @robstaton pic.twitter.com/5qwg93LpvA
— DAVIS HSU (@DavisHsuSeattle) December 8, 2015
As you can see, Irvin’s first-year cap hit is relatively low ($4.5m in 2016). I think there are a couple of things to consider though. How determined is Irvin to at least test the market, especially after the apparent ‘snub’ of not taking the fifth year option? If it comes down to a bidding war, are the Seahawks going to go big to keep their man?
I also suspect they really like Sweezy, for better or worse. It wouldn’t be a total shock if Sweezy signed a contract extension in the next week or so — similar to Cliff Avril and K.J. Wright last year.
I’m also cautious that they drafted Mark Glowinski this year and he’s ideally suited to the right guard spot. So there’s every chance he’s the heir apparent.
Draft position could be the most significant thing here. The later the Seahawks pick, the harder it’s going to be to get at the better offensive linemen in this class. If they’re picking from #25-31, they might prefer re-signing Russell Okung and Sweezy to provide some continuity on a blossoming O-line. That could mean no Irvin.
So how easy will it be to replace a guy who has a unique, almost unmatched skill set as a pass rusher who can cover, blow up screens and make the occasional game-changing turnover (and sack Cam Newton year after year)?
It’s impossible, in a word. You’ll not find another Bruce. That’s perhaps the biggest reason for re-signing him.
Do you need a carbon copy though? Or can you adapt the role?
The Arizona Cardinals have utilised Deone Bucannon — a college safety — almost exclusively at linebacker. He ran a 4.49 at his combine at 6-1 and 211lbs. The Carolina Panthers drafted Shaq Thompson — who started as a safety at Washington before switching to linebacker — and use him in a similar way.
It’s a plan that seems to be working for both clubs.
Bucannon was the #27 overall pick in 2014. Thompson went #25 overall this year.
Is it really that preposterous that the Seahawks would consider drafting a 6-2, 230lbs safety who runs in the 4.4’s to play linebacker — similar to Bucannon and Thompson?
It’d be a different skill set to Irvin — but as noted, there isn’t another Bruce out there. If you can’t keep him — and it might be out of their hands — you have to consider alternatives.
So can a defensive back from Southern Utah go in round one?
“He’s a better football player than Shaq Thompson and Deone Bucannon were when they came out.”
That’s a quote from a regional scout, via NFL.com.
If the scout is right and he’s a better football player than Bucannon and Thompson — and he has the athleticism — why can’t he go in the first frame and in a similar range (mid-to-late 20’s)?
Tony Pauline’s sources are saying he could be a day-two pick. That’s not a bad starting position going into the Senior Bowl and eventually the combine.
What’s more, he clearly has an appealing character. If you haven’t heard it yet, listen to the podcast from yesterday and be prepared to be impressed. He’s Russell Wilson-esque:
He also told us in the interview that he’s been told he might end up at linebacker.
None of us know whether the Seahawks would consider this kind of move — going from an athletic pass-rusher convert at linebacker to an extremely athletic defensive back convert. They might be more likely to plug in a prospect like Oklahoma’s Eric Striker. It’s something to consider over the next few weeks.
The wildcard in all of this is, of course, that Killebrew could end up being a ready-made replacement for Kam Chancellor in the future. Chancellor turns 28 next April and it’s not a stretch to wonder if he’ll be the type of player who continues well into his 30’s. His current contract takes him through until age 30.
Again, it’s something else to consider.
It feels like the futures of Okung and Irvin will have a big impact in the first round of the draft. This is, after all, a team without lots of needs in relation to the rest of the NFL. They’ve consistently had success developing their own guys at cornerback without the big investment. They’ve found solutions at defensive tackle in the veteran free agent market.
If Okung walks and they move Garry Gilliam to left tackle — drafting a right tackle early is probably very likely. If they re-sign Okung and Sweezy and Irvin departs — finding a replacement in round one could be the priority.
I believe in trends and how they help us project what a team will or won’t do. Seattle has so far spent two first round picks on offensive tackles (Okung, James Carpenter), one on a safety (Earl Thomas) and one on an athletic pass-rusher/linebacker (Irvin). There is some history targeting tackle and linebacker early and they like unique traits and athleticism. In contrast they’ve generally looked to draft cornerbacks on day three and defensive tackles in the round 3-5 range.
If they drafted Killebrew in the first round, they could look at the O-line in round two (Adam Bisnowaty? Joe Dahl? Jason Spriggs) and running back in round three (Paul Perkins? Alex Collins).
Was listening to an ESPN podcast today.
It was a conversation about De Marco Murray.
But Adam Caplan, said without any shadow of a doubt, the Oakland Raiders would be adding a more physical running back to their roster this off season.
Could be a landing spot for Lynch, who have a bottomless pit of cap room.
Sounds like an ideal situation.
Seems like the winds are blowing that way. My question would be is it via trade or free agency? (does the dead money hang around if he’s traded?)
Honestly I would feel dirty trading a beat up ‘past-his-prime’ running back to any team, but Lynch playing his last year as a raider seems too perfect. Imagine he has his Swan song with the Seahawks in a super bowl run, and then plays his last year or two fulfilling his dream of playing with his home town team…
Oakland would be a cool landing spot for Lynch on a few fronts. If Lynch isn’t in Seattle next year-his hometown is where I’d like to see him go.
Thinking Ken Norton Jr. will be lobbying to get Bruce Irvin as well. Oakland is on the up. They’re a few pieces from being a playoff team, and have some serious money to spend. They haven’t been shy about throwing money at players, but have found it somewhat difficult to draw players interest-because of a poor roster. Oakland is no longer destitute. Pairing Irvin with Mack would be a major coup for Norton and Raider Nation.
“My question would be is it via trade or free agency? (does the dead money hang around if he’s traded?”
Yes. Seattle takes the full dead money hit of the remaining signing bonus. His three year deal included a 7.5m bonus, so that would mean a 5m dead money hit in 2016 if he’s traded.
I want to have my cake and eat it to, so why not sign Bruce and draft this guy?
Bruce’s value isn’t so much that he’s a pretty good SAM, but that he can rush the passer to boot. We lose Bruce and we don’t just need a new SAM, we need a DE too.
If This Killebrew guy isn’t asked to put on too much weight he could play SS and the SAM positions (KAM could easily play SAM in a pinch and he’s like 235).
Rob how much do you think the 2017 comp pick plays into the decision whether or not the Hawks sign Irvin to an extension? I could see them doing something similar as they reportedly did with Maxwell. “here is our ceiling, if you find a better deal, good luck to you and we’ll take the comp pick.”
I would think Irvin could return a 3rd round pick, or at worst a 4th round pick. JS has been said to covet comp picks, and now they’ll be tradable so that gives the Hawks even more flexibility.
I could see something like that approach. It’ll be tough to get a #3 for him but in the $7m average range they could get a fourth rounder.
I see what you mean, but it always seems like there’s someone in free agency with “stupid money” and will throw the bank at a guy like Irvin. I wouldn’t be shocked at all if he landed $8-9m/year.
I agree cha-thinking Irvin could get $8-9 mil per on the open market. Oakland and Jacksonville both have big money to spend and familiarity with Irvin. I’d be surprised if both DC Norton and HC Bradley didn’t make a big push to sign Irvin. They both have a ton of cap space,even before a healthy raise of the cap. $9 mil to pair Irvin with a Mack or Fowler seems like a no brainer, if I’m a GM at Oakland or Jacksonville. Like Rob was saying-I fully expect us to give a take it or leave it offer to Irvin, and him to leave it.
Just looking at the current LB salaries, I don’t see 9m as a likely possibility.
That’s the Bowman/Wagner/David/Timmons range. I don’t see any team going that high for him. It’s probably even a stretch to think he’ll command more than Pernell McPhee who signed for 7.75m just this year. Irvin isn’t in McPhee’s class. And 2015’s group of LBs wasn’t exactly stellar.
I’d guess he’ll be in the 6-7m range. Irvin does have some ability to rush the passer, so that’ll keep his stock up. If Denver doesn’t extend Von Miller, then Irvin will be a distant #2 on the LB market.
I’d also add, that if he’s in the 6m to 6.5m range, that probably puts him on the bubble between last 4th round to top of the 5th round in terms of comp pick.
Dan Williams at 6.25 was the top 5th round comp this year. Inflation should boost that some. It’s definitely worth noting too, that there aren’t a lot of alpha UFAs this year. A ton of aged/3rd contract players. The ones you’d typically think of (Von Miller, Eric Berry, Greg Hardy) have significant availability questions that should suppress their value.
As crazy as it looks, Russell Okung could well vie with Miller to command the top UFA contract in 2016. This UFA class is dreadful.
There may not be a 10m per year deal in the entire lot. If the contracts flatten like that, it makes it even less likely that a 6.5-7m per year deal gets a 4th round pick. Actually looking at the list in it’s entirety, Irvin could get a disproportionate deal relative to other LBs because of the generically weak class. He is one of the few young productive players entering his 2nd contract phase with no real question marks.
So I guess I’d amend the outlook. He probably will get overpaid relative to players at his position. If so, he could net a good comp pick. This comp pool is going to calculate much differently than the 2015 UFA class.
I think your conclusions are within reason, I just always tend to mentally inflate free agent salaries when looking at comparable players at the same position. The cap is rumored to be raising again and there are always free agent deals that exceed expectations. I don’t think anyone saw Maxwell getting a $63m deal, common sense would say that is an albatross, which just a few weeks into the season it has become.
Is the raising cap number the primary reason that fewer elite players are hitting the market? If the cap rises too high, it will be almost like there is no cap and almost all teams could keep their best players.
tcocould be that more and more teams are rezalizing that 1 elite player is better than 2-3 average players. Jeff Fisher and the Rams are a perfect examlple of this.
Interesting Mock Rob. Ideally I would prefer Coleman or Ifedi in Rd #1 and either Striker or Killegrew in Rd #2.
Any chance in your opinion Coleman or Ifedi make it till the end of Rd #1 and how about Striker or Killebrew at the end of Rd #2. Any chance it could work out this way or a pipe dream?
For me Coleman goes top-10 and Ifedi top-25… but a lot of other people see it differently.
Yeah there’s always a chance. In virtually every year there are a handful of guys that Rob and the community here at SDB have considered first round guys who slipped out completely.
2015:
Landon Collins
Jalen Collins
Devin Smith
Eli Harold
TJ Clemmings
La’el Collins
2014:
David Yankey
Donte Moncrief
Louis Nix
Morgan Moses
Jace Amaro
Ra’shede Hageman
Joel Bitonio
Demarcus Lawrence
These were guys that were common fixtures in most SDB R1 mocks. Just because they didn’t go R1 means we overrated them. Lots of teams use different strategies come draft time and may choose to address needs differently than on paper. Also trades happen that shake up the mix.
The point is, there are a ton of guys that even in April mocks, end up slipping. And there are easily as many or more than those listed, who were R1 fixtures in December, only to get passed over or exposed as the analysis process continues. This time last year, TJ Clemmings was picked as the second best LT prospect behind La’el Collins. Scherff, Flowers and Peat were all in the 15 to 50 overall range. Yet they were the top three chosen by May. Clemmings and Collins were day 3 guys. Although I expect Collins would have been day 1 were it not for goofy circumstance.
Coleman could have a Robinson-esque rise up the board. But then some teams could well remember what actually happened with Robinson and avoid him.
FWIW I hated David Yankey. Some national media had him graded in round one (!!!).
Yeah I know. I hated him too. Seemed he had some kind of hold on the DeCastro holdovers as well.
You were spot on there.
Also, I think it only bears mentioning because these opinions evolve and do so pretty rapidly. There are probably only 7-8 names on this list that will definitely make it as a day 1 pick. Probably as many as 12 of these names will fall off the R1 radar before April. And then about 10 of those that do make it will end up getting taken in day 2 and 3.
Coleman could have a Robinson like ride to the top. Or could have a Clemming’s like boost to the top and equally precipitous drop to day 3. Particularly as better understanding of his medical prognosis is for the future unfolds.
I’m torn between resigning Okung vs Irvin
Okung isn’t old but he’s definitely regressed and is injury prone. Irvin is coming into his prime but I’m just not sure is what it will take to resign him.
I actually think Okung has had a solid year. Have to remember he has been playing next to a rookie LG all season who struggled badly for most of it.
I find it fascinating that the team specifically referred to Glowinski as a RG. Makes me wonder if they do not plan to resign Sweezy, as if to call 4 years of rock bottom salary at starting RG is enough success and time to move on to the next young guy, even if Cable speaks highly of him.
Maybe that opens room for both Okung and Irvin and reasonable deals.
“I find it fascinating that the team specifically referred to Glowinski as a RG. Makes me wonder if they do not plan to resign Sweezy, as if to call 4 years of rock bottom salary at starting RG is enough success and time to move on to the next young guy, even if Cable speaks highly of him.”
That’s why I don’t see us retaining Sweezy. It’s hard to tell though, not being able to see how our young OL are progressing in practice. Have to think the 3 picks we spent last year on the OL were designed to keep the cap number low along the OL. Sweezy has proven to be a starting level RG and will get offers. Carpenter got 4 years $19.1 mil. Wouldn’t be surprised if Sweezy got a similar deal, and think that prices him out of our range.
Sweezy will get 2-3 million tops. He was picked to late in the draft to get more.
LOL, good one! If second contract was based on draft position, Sherman and RW would be getting a LOT less than what they’re getting now.
There are exceptions. Rawls will be the next. I’ll bet you Sweezy won’t get 3 million.
Alaska- You may prove to be right that Sweezy won’t get more than $3mil per year. To say that he won’t get more than $3 mil because he was a 7th round pick, is flawed logic. Players earn their second contract based on merit, not former draft pedigree. There’s simply too many cases to list that prove my point. Research it.
Maybe Breno got 4.5M per. Obviously to play RT, but Breno was never anything other than serviceable. There are a lot of teams with terrible OL. Would be shocked if Sweezy gets less than 4.
Absolutely. Okung isn’t the player Irvin is IMO but his position is so hard to fill and so much more crucial than the LB’s in this scheme.
Yeah, that’s why I find it so hard to believe they would let Okung walk. Way easier to fill a LB need over a LT one, but also, I think with this team and how they roll, anything is possible.
I agree. Looks like Hsu is saying they can retain both. I’m not so sure. Really comes down to expectation and cost of the player. Okung is the 12th highest highest paid OT, the Top 10 averages 10m per season and the bottom 10 are shocking. Irvin surely wants and will be offered more than KJ & BWags, I’m thinking 7.5-8.5 APY which I think may be too steep for JSPS
If it was me, I would trade up for Coleman and resign Irvin. While I think you could fill his spot without much drop offer LB, I think Irvin has so much value in our defense that is not or yet to be appreciated. He can chase, hold at the point, cover and rush the passer and would be tough to replace with 1 guy. If he walks I think they look at Aldon Smith in FA
Something to consider as well: as pointed out above, we might have Sweezy’s replacement in Glowinski and depending on what you think of KPL or potentially Pinkins, we might have depth to replace Irvin. Aside from Gilium, I don’t see Okung’s replacement on the roster. Given how the OL has come together these last 3 weeks, I can see resigning Okung to be a priority.
Right, and at the same time, Irvin is a better player at his position, I think by a good margin, he stays healthy all year and he’s coming into his prime and not out of it, and it’s really hard to say who they’d prioritize. his team has been thriving because we have the kind of players Irvin is becoming.
Remember, that Irvin was a 25 year old rookie. He’ll be 29 next year. So age/prime wise, he’s kind of like a guy heading into his third contract.
Yeah, I think that played into them declining the option. The likelihood is probably prime Irvin for half of the contract. But right now now his athleticism shows on the field and his skills are better and better. Compared with Okung who plays more like a “good” LT when he plays, and sometimes not even that, while he used to play “very good” to elite, his performance very clearly sloping down.
For all those hoping for Bevel to be gone this off season I really doubt it. Pete said today in an interview he did not make Bevel available for the job at BYU. Hard to think they would fire him after not allowing him to try and get that gig.
Hopefully after the last couple of weeks people will have a more open mind about him. I think seeing his play calling without worrying about feeding the Beast has been very enlightening and bodes well for the future.
I read something different in his “not available” statement: we like Bev and Bev likes us.
Exactly if they would not let him interview it means they like him and he is not going anywhere.
Right, but it sounds mutual, not one-sided. Bev wants to stay as much as they want him to.
I read, we’re planing on a super bowl and the college season is starting right now. He doesn’t have time
Actually, BYU’s college season is just ending, or it will the Saturday after this one when BYU plays in the LV Bowl.
Also, PC has a long history of encouraging his assistants to pursue head coaching opportunities at both the college and pro levels. I can’t think of an instance where he impeded anyone that way.
PC could have said Bevell’s not interested, but that’s kind of rude.
I watched most of Bevell’s presser today and he came across as happy and enthused about things. Not at all like a guy who wanted to be on to other things. I wish I’d seen it from the start to hear if he was asked about it.
The he’d coach has to start recruiting for next year, waiting possibly til after the super bowl to get your coach would waste a year of recruiting and could kill your system for years.
this is very unusual, Seahawks have been very open about allowing coaches have chances for career improvement or elevation. I find this hard to believe, if BYU was truly interested.
Which means Bev ain’t interested in leaving. He decided his unavailability, not PC.
I reading it like Bevell prefers his job here to the one at BYU, and the feeling is mutual. Put away your birthday kazoos Seahawk fans.
Striker and Killebrew are 2 different prospects who could be drafted to address the same need (losing Irvin). Which would you take?
I suppose the X-factor is will Kam try and hold out again. If the Hawks feel like they “won” the last holdout situation and Kam won’t make any noise again, they can go for the more pass-rusher type player in Striker.
Or if they feel Kam is a powder keg that is going to go off again, Killebrew could be a great pick.
If I had to choose one, Killebrew has the higher ceiling.
Right now, I like Killebrew, Striker, ‘Bama’s Tim Williams, Michigan St’s Shilique Calhoun, Boise St’s Kamalei Correa, A&M’s Daeshon Hall, Maryland’s Yannick Ngakoue, and Auburn’s Carl Lawson as a wildcard.
There’s some great SAM prospects in this class if Seattle isn’t able to retain Bruce Irvin.
Resign Irvin. Use the draft picks on other guys.
I favor resigning Irvin and drafting someone like killibrew in the first two rounds. Never can have enough secondary.
Hawks bring Anthony McCoy back and sign Akeem Davis to take Cary Williams’ roster spot.
Davis seems like he has good workout numbers but beyond that don’t know much about him. Little help?
Ran a 4.37 at 200lbs…
He’s a ST gunner.
They need the help at gunner, not a bad move imo.
Rob, so funny you had ‘Bama’s Tim Williams in here. I love this guy, and IMO he’s another Aldon Smith kind of player.
I was going to ask you about him today too. 9.5 sacks to go along with 14.5 TFL. He’s 6’3-6’4, 230-240 lbs. Grest length and energy. Might be a ‘one trick pony,’ but so was Bruce Irvin.
He’s firmly on my radar. Seattle has scouted ‘Bama quite extensively this year too.
I had the exact same thought earlier in the year when I heard we sent scouts down there.
He’s a pass rush specialist. And a very good one at that. Has very unique pass rush speed. When you watch him on the line, he’s almost always the first player to react to the snap. His burst quickness is simply marvelous. Reminds of Vic Beasley of 2014.
Yup. I’d take this guy in a heartbeat. He’s just now scratching the surface of his potential, and is only going to improve and get bigger.
IMO he’s much better than Marcus Smith was coming out of L’ville 2 years ago, but will have a similar type of rise up draft boards, if he does declare, which I’m hoping is the case.
A pass rush specialist indeed, but with unique traits and dynamite explosion/quickness/burst.
He’s got a Frank Clark vibe to him. Currently being overlooked and undervalued, but the kind of prospect I could see Seattle really liking and the type of selection on draft day when other, supposedly ‘better’ pass rushers are on the board, Seattle grabs, and the majority of fans go ‘who? Why? Where’d he come from?’
This FO has shown a proclivity of drafting to address future needs a year early. Could be, the plan all along has been to let Sweezy walk (glowinski). Might also lend credence to interest in a player like Killebrew, who could be a future Kam replacement while being a situational contributor next season.
That’s what I think, but I’m not sure we take him that high if Bruce and Kam are both still here.
Then again who knows. Could be taking the guy a year early and getting him up to speed is a good approach.
Really interesting as a potential replacement for Bruce or even Kam. Bruce has the speed to cover guys that are fast, Kam has the size to take on big blockers and make hits, we have the flexibility with them on the field to drop back an extra DB or send down an extra LB. This guy really makes sense. Great interview.
I gather that if we’re replacing Bruce it has less to do with performance and more to do with salary, salary relative to what our system asks for from a SAM, what it can do with an explosive LB. Is this a good reason? I’d much, much rather let Sweezy walk, as solid as he’s been. I’d rather try to get more out of Irvin and blitz him.
My feeling is we declined Irvin’s option because we wanted to resign him long-term, and hopefully we still do. His window to play at a high level was/is limited, given his age, I think they wanted to sign him long term sooner than later.
If they pick in the first, I think they want explosive play potential. 3 position groups offer this…
WR, DE and LB. I think we need to concentrate on these types of players….. I’m not seeing OL or CB being a priority target in the first, since this is not an “explosive” position.
As for SS/CB/LB Killebrew…. right now, CBPSPORTS gives the guy a solid 5th round grade. I highly doubt he goes in the first or even the second… now third round seems like a fit to me. Maybe he has a nice combine and pro date and elevates his stock, but I’m finding it hard to believe he goes day one.
I wouldn’t trust that grade on CBS’ web site. I suspect they had Deone Bucannon in a similar range this time two years ago. It’s notoriously out of date.
Buchanon was the second ranked SS coming out in 2014 (by CBPSPORTS). I think most people were thinking he would go second round… maybe I was more aware than most, since he was at WSU and commonly hit the press in Washington State. On a sidenote, there is a junior safety playing for WSU who might be worth checking out….. Shalom Luani.
Sounds a bit like another small school safety, Jaquiski Tartt, who was basically unknown before the Combine. He went from a Day 3 prospect to the 46th player taken overall.
If Killebrew played for a Power-5 team, he’d be one of the top safety prospects this year. He’s raw and undisciplined, but he oozes potential. I’m not a betting man, but I’m pretty sure he’ll go at least as high as Tartt.
In fact, I could see SF taking him at the top of R2 if he’s still available.
Didn’t you just say re-sign Irvin and use draft picks on other guys? And then list DE and LB as positions to focus on?
Explosive/Splash play potential. Guys are very hard to find at LB and DE… for depth, they should draft a guy. They are not very deep at LB overall, certainty not as deep as when they had Malcom Smith as the 4th LB. They need to build depth at DE, they have 2 great players and 1 potentially great player, but they need at least 1 more guy at DE or a DE/LB combo spot.
I guess if you think Marsh, Clark, Bennett and Avril can hold down the DE position for a full season, then neglect the position early in the draft. I would prefer if they have 5 or 6 guys that can be interchangable, which they really do not have right now. As has been mentioned, they are about 1-2 years ahead of the curve with picks….. on a 2 year scale, DE is a need (due to age) as is LB (due to lack of high quality depth).
How the hell would you get all those guys reps? They got 5 guys now.
Bennett, Avril, Marsh, Clark, and Irvin is more than enough. Their top 10 in sacks for a reason.
While I agree that if Bruce leaves you’ll need to replace him, I disagree that LBs are hard to find. Finding a Bruce Irvin clone is hard-impossible to find, you can’t have quality depth at every position. LB depth looks pretty good to my eye with Pinkins, Morgan, KPL, and Coyle.
IMO, they’ll target a SAM ‘backer, a big DT, and a 5-tech/3-tech, like a Charles Tapper, DeMarcus Walker, or Mike Rose kind of cat.
If they re-sign Bruce Irvin, I don’t think a LEO, SAM, OTTO will be anything more than a developmental UDFA kind of player.
Pinkins, Morgan, KPL, and Coyle.
If I recall correctly, 2 of the 4 guys have spent time on IR or been injured for portions of the last 2 seasons. Morgan is a nice ST player and has filled in decently this year, but he is the only guy you can count on routinely being healthy. Pinkins can barely get off the PS to the 53 man roster. I still think they are trying to figure out if he is going to be a LB or CB or S or something else.
Injuries happen man. No guarantee that a rookie will hold up any better.
Seattle is going to be patient and develop guys on their PS. Pinkins was red-shirted last year anyways. Seattle has never wanted anything more in a backup MIKE than Coyle or Farwell, because KJ is so versatile.
A backup LB will be nothing more than a STs player. Their gonna give guys and trust their PS members first and foremost. I don’t see a 6th or 7th LB being added anywhere other than UDFA.
If it’s replacing Bruce Irvin, then yes, it’ll be a 1st or 2nd daty selection.
Hey V12 (or anyone else), do you have an opinion on Texas DT Hassan Ridgeway? I know he’s a junior and may not declare, but he reminds me a lot of 2013-14 ‘Bane.
I’ve watched him play twice, and liked what I saw. Plays like ‘Bane, but is built more like Kevin Williams.
Good length, good motor, good punch. He’d be a quality selection in the 3rd or 4th. If he does declare.
I think Rob’s mentioned him before, but LA Tech DT Vernon Butler is a really exciting prospect.
Funny you should mention him. I like him; he’s also similar to ‘Bane. But I think he goes higher than SEA is willing to take. That’s what got me thinking about Ridgeway.
Very little tape on him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltL6872vGzs
Possibly. I think Butler goes in the 3rd-4th round range.
I’m hoping we get to see Killebrew play some OLB in the Senior Bowl. Really want to see if he can hold up playing closer to the line before spending a first on him. Most of his highlight video he’s playing center field. Miles looks and sounds like a future Seahawk-one to closely track.
It was cool to see CB Desmond King make it into the first round of your mock. I’m a big fan of his and think he would fit perfectly in our system. Looks like King just might fit the 77.5″ wingspan baseline we require in CB’s. With the way Shead has been playing, and our penchant to wait until round 5 on CB’s, I’ll just have to temper my desire for the Hawks to draft King. Thought it was pretty funny that you mentioned the Iowa game in your blurb about Tyler Boyd. Not because Boyd didn’t ball out, but because King had 2 picks while defending Boyd H2H-the second of which was an amazing diving pick in the end zone.
Iowa’s got another CB in Greg Mabin, that should be around in the range Seattle likes to target their corners.
Is he as good as King? No. He dors have better size, I’m going to guess better length, and is just as physical in the run game and with wide receivers down field.
Just a thought. Last year, almost every DB that Seattle drafted or signed as an UDFA came from the East-West Shrine game. Could be purely councidental, or there could be something to this.
“Is he as good as King? No. He dors have better size, I’m going to guess better length, and is just as physical in the run game and with wide receivers down field.”
Completely agree. Mabin looked real good in that Mich St game. Haven’t seen any tape on him though, or watched a lot of Iowa this year. Both King and Mabin are Juniors, and would think King is the most likely to declare-leading the FBS in int’s his stock is high. Both are exciting prospects for sure!
Interesting stuff about the Shrine game. Must be because they’re usually lower regarded-smaller school-prospects. We draft for a prototypical size/length, speed and physicality. JS/PC’s approach to taking late round DB’s often and molding them has been proven to unmask some gems. As much as I’d like to see us take an early CB it’s probably never going to happen. I’d be bummed if I didn’t trust JS/PC so damn much. haha We’ll have to keep a closer eye on the Shrine game’s prospects. Personally I’m going to hold off on scouting many CB’s until the measurements come in-knowing of the arm length 32″+ and wingspan 77.5″+ requirements.
There’s quite a few ‘smaller school’ corners in the Senior bowl too. I actually find that to be quite interesting.
Shrine game has Miss St CB Taveze Calhoun, N’Western CB Nick Van Hoose, NC St CB Juston Burriss, and a couple others that I’m forgetting.
A late round CB really like is Michigan CB Jeremy Clark. Clark is 6-4 205 lbs, he is a former saftey, this was his first year of playing CB.
Took the baby on a 3 hour stroller trip today and got to listen to the entire podcast(rare these days). Great work Rob, a fun listen and Killebrew does come off as a guy you really want on your team. Wilson’esk sounding with a bit more open feeling to him. Awesome attitude.
For me, the “Lynch” pin of the entire offseason is Russell Okung. If he leaves then we’ve got a big hole to fill and there is no guarantee that it gets adequately filled. Imo he’s got to be resigned and is priority 1, 2 & 3. He’s made plenty of money already, has a ring and is a good fit here. Stick around big guy.
Sweezy will be allowed to test the market. If he wants too much $$$ then we have his potential replacement on the roster.
I would like Alex Boone on the team regardless of whether Sweezy stays or goes as he is capable of playing either G spot. Ideally he comes on and takes the starting LG job.
I’m not worried about replacing a LB. We will find a guy.
My flavor of the week 1st round draft pick is MSU DE Shilique Calhoun(assuming Irvin walks). Now that we’ve seen Frank Clark provide interior pass rush I can see a primary Nascar package of Calhoun, Clark, Bennett & Avril with Hill and Marsh rotating in/injury depth. You can never have too many pass rushers.
I agree firmly with the notion the further towards the end of R1 they are picking, they almost have to re-sign Okung. I think they have to regardless. The interesting wild card in all that is that Okung is negotiating his next deal without an agent. Can’t see the team or the player spending quality time negotiating an extension during the season. So, it’s weird to get a gage on it. While it feels like Sweezy might be a priority, if the drafted Glow in R4 to be a RG, that’s a relatively high round for some who would be a backup and they wouldn’t consider moving to LG or Center to compete.
If they re-sign Irvin, that is a ton or salary cap tied into 3 starting linebackers, but if you consider him also a valuable pass rushing end in the rotation, and Clark developing more as an inside rusher, there is logic to it.
I wonder how feasible it is to think, if they devote big contracts to Okung, and Irving, then you can look at a high pick a lineman that either become Sweezy’s replacement, or upgrades to RT or LG, and then go the direction of C, WR, dare I say DT, CB, RB further down the line. Probably not greatly feasible if they want to retain veterans such as Mebane, and Rubin, Lane and Kearse.
So, it probably comes down to one or the other. Honestly, I can see them go either way. While all the logic in the worlds suggests they should lock up the big LT, I can see them hanging onto Bruce, moving Gilliam to LT, drafting Spriggs, and then say, “there you go, Russ. Make it happen.” There’s a definitely body of history there that shows they are willing to buck conventional wisdom on the OL, for better or worse.
Just a guess, but I think Okung gets a Bennett-sized contract, but over 3 years instead of 4.
He would be the top LT on the market by a landslide unless Cleveland does something ridiculous and cuts Joe Thomas, which they would more likely trade. If Seattle allows him to test the market, I think there is a legit chance he might be gone. I think once the season is done, there should be big push to re-sign him, but he would be a fool not to use the market as leverage. If they let him test it and there is a bigger contract out there for him, is this another year we see our first rounder dealt for a veteran like Thomas, who is the tender football age of 31? As crazy as that seems, there’s a body of history to go off of on that as well.
Or do we roll with Gilliam at LT who doesn’t show great strength at RT, but has the athletic traits desired for LT, but not the body of work, and draft for RT, and use the cap room for Irving? Interesting stuff.
I would much rather have them re-sign Okung. Especially the way the line is finally rounding out. Why start from scratch again? Why trade a high round pick for a player in his 30s?
I’m with you and many others here. I think the FO wants to resign Okung also but it depends whether he’s priced out of our price range by the market.
The future roster projections that Hsu shared are interesting and cool to visualize. Most of it looks pretty realistic except for a few things: 1-MeBane resigning for $600K. Talk about a low ball offer! 2-Irvin’s cap #. The proposed contract could be back loaded,which highly regarded UFA’s generally don’t go for, but he’s going to get offered considerably more than $4.5 mil/year. IMO 3- Our first 2 picks on OL. Unless we let Okung and Sweezy walk-highly unlikely- it seems frivolous to spend round 1 and 2 picks on OL. Especially after spending 3 picks on OL last year. Also there’s a 3rd round pick unaccounted for…comp pick maybe.
“Most of it looks pretty realistic except for a few things: 1-MeBane resigning for $600K.”
Here’s how it works:
Mebane has 8 accrued seasons. The veteran minimum for 7-9 years is 885k for 2016. That’s the floor. Signing bonus on top of that.
So Mebane’s actual contract will be 885k or more.
There is a vehicle called the Veteran’s Minimum Benefit. It’s a designation meant to entice teams to sign veterans at minimum salary over rookie UFA types.
Here’s how it works and how a player qualifies:
– Veteran must have 4+ accrued years
– Contract must be 1 year
– Bonus can’t exceed 65k
So Mebane’s contract can be a 1 year 885k contract with 65k bonus. So 950k 1 year deal
In that case, for cap reasons that contract will equate to the vet minimum of a player with 2 years accrued. For 2016, this is 600k.
Completely forgot about the Veteran’s Minimum Benefit, which is a cool incentive program to prolong useful veterans careers. My mistake. Thanks for clarifying Attyla. $950k still seems a bit low for Bane, thinking $1.5-$2 mil, but maybe not.
How has Mebane been playing this year? Does anyone have some insight? He hasn’t made splash plays that I can recall. Figuring that, he may re-sign for really cheap given the barren market for DTs. I don’t think we could get him at vet minimum but probably in the $2m range. To me, he’s a guy that lost his step but still really knows how to do his job the way the coaches like. He just doesn’t seem like the star he once was.
Help me out here. How does Mebane sign a veteran minimum contract? Why would he?
The Hawks asked him to take a pay cut this summer and he refused and the Hawks didn’t cut him loose. So he thinks he’s worth more and the Hawks agreed at the time. I just don’t see it.
He won’t get veteran minimum obviously. But with the current DT market, Mebane is probably realistically worth about $2m.
This makes me think that Mebane might be more receptive to an extension now. He knows he won’t get a lot of money, and maybe not a lot of job security on the open market, so if the Seahawks guaranteed him money next year and a contract in 2017, could entice ‘Bane and let him finish his career a Seahawk.
That is not Mebane signing. In his thread of posts Davis explains that one of Mebane or Rubin would sign in FA the other would leave, and we would likely find a replacement at vet min or in the draft. It just so happens that he put the signing as Rubin instead of Mebane. It was simply for number/cap figures, not to suggest which we would keep.
I think we need to Resign Okung and Irvin. Let Sweezy walk. For me in the draft I would like to see a pure pass rushing monster at DT and a corner drafted to push Shead and Simon next year. If we are unable to resign Irvin the we definitely need to prioritize a SAM LB, a Pass Rushing DT, and a Corner. Still would not be against Killbrew if he can indeed play LB in the NFL. Hearing talking about struggling to put on weight concerns me a bit for playing LB. I wish Seattle would try Kam at LB since he seems to crush Olineman anyways.
Let go:
Okung/Sweezy/Mebane/Kearse/Graham/Lynch/Jackson/Lockette/Williams (already gone)
Resign:
Shead/Irvin/Tukuafu/Rubin/Lane
Restructure:
Avril/Bennett
FA:
Jackson (WR) 1 of the following OT (Beachum/Glenn/Barclay/Harvenstein)
Draft:
2nd (trade back) Killebrew or Striker (S/LB)
2nd Bisnowaty (OT)
3rd Miller (WR)
3rd Day (DT)
Agree on all but graham and okung. Add pat elflien in the 4th and draft some big CB in later rounds would be very happy with that draft
Graham isn’t going anywhere.
Could PC/JS restructure Graham’s contract to lower that 9 mil cap hit? He’s got 2 years, 19M left, no guaranteed. If Seahawks cut him, what can he earn over the next 2 years as a free agent coming off that injury? 4-5M/yr? What if the offered a new, 2 year deal with 6M guaranteed, 13M. Cap hit for 2016 goes from 9M to 6M, 2017 from 10M to 7M. Better than he’d find on the market with security to rehab and get paid.
Something like this has to happen. No way JG finds himself in August, still not recovered, with 0 guaranteed $ (no roster bonus either). Couldn’t he be cut a day before the season starts with no cap hit? No way Seahawks let Irvin or Okung walk while paying JG 19M knowing JG will only decline after a year of not dominating.
In your opinion, what kind of contract could JG get in FA next offseason?
He might be back in August or September. It’s too early to say.
There is no way JG gets 6M in the FA market. If they do a deal with a lot of incentives maxing out at 6M, may be it is palatable. But unfortunate for him, the history for his injury is pretty bad: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/monday-morning-md-patella-tendon-rupture-often-worse-than-acl/
PC/JS have shown that they are willing to accept their mistakes and move on (Latest case in point: Cary Williams). I hope they don’t hang on to JG only for the sake of goodwill.
This is a totally different situation from Williams. Graham isn’t a ‘mistake’ it’s an unfortunate injury. And while many fans seem willing to entertain the idea that the Seahawks are just going to cut one of the best TE’s in the NFL months after trading a first round pick for him because he’s suffered a serious injury — it’s just not going to happen. If he spends all of next year struggling to recover and barely sees the field ala Victor Cruz, we can revisit this situation. But he isn’t being cut this off-season. One, because he’s a fantastic player, the type you just don’t write off two weeks after an injury. Two, they have potentially as much as $35m in free cap space in 2016. There is no need to cut Graham to save money. They have all the money they need. So let’s please move on.
Agree. PC has specifically said that not only will he be back from the injury, he’s wanted back because he has a great attitude. Almost like he’s aware of the public perception and the ugly Harvin business and going to pains to assure this isn’t that type of situation.
I think Graham will be back, imagine what would happen if he was “cut”…. a team such as the Patriots would be ALL OVER HIM. More or less handing them another SB ring.
Is JG one of the best TEs in the game? The F in JFG has been largely missing. How much of his past dominance was Drew Brees?
JG does have a great attitude. But he has not demonstrated game breaking ability, physicality, separation. He does not block. He is not a great fit. He might be one of the best TEs in the game with another QB, but he has clicked with Russell Wilson. I do not consider the work in progress to be spectacular.
How patient should they be with a great attitude and effort, at his cost, and with other needs in a small championship window?
It’s still not happening Steele. Let’s move on.
Thought I heard that Pat Elfein is coming back for his senior year.
Rob- Killebrew or Cravens, and why?
As of today I’d say Killebrew because I think it looks like he has more upside and athleticism. But we’ll see at the combine.
Just a question. Eric Pinkins at 6’3″ and 230 lbs seems to be a guy they are already trying this with as he was drafted as a safety and is currently on the 53 man roster as a linebacker. We haven’t seen him on the field much, but if they are happy with his progress would that change the focus of the first round pick in your opinion?
I like what I seen from pinkins but if his ceiling is depth/bubble starter, you take kilabrew every time. With pinkies being cut a couple times I think that’s what they see his ceiling being at.
Also doesn’t Nick Moody fall into this discussion as well? He was a former S convert to LB if Im not mistaken.
Frankly, I’d rather give Jimmy the ax and keep Okung AND Irvin.
Also, for the love of God stop trading late first round picks in desperation for a difference making pass catcher. It never works. It has never worked to force these guys into our offense thinking they’re superstars who ‘deserve’ touches It screws over your cap flexibility. It costs you young talent you could extend on second contracts. Just stop already. Pick your fringe second rounder and move the hell on.
You don’t need to give Jimmy the axe to keep both Okung and Irvin. There’s $35m in free space in the off-season if Lynch departs.
Graham was a very good addition. No one we were going to get in the later round would be close the player he is. He has also been way different than the other 1st round trade in Percy. Graham seems to be a great teammate and the team and players love him. With a lot less stress to get him the ball coming off his injury I’m very excited to watch what he and Russell can accomplish
He has all the hard work done… figuring out the offense and blocking…. now he can go out and just play. It would have to be an exceptional package of picks/players for Seattle to pull the trigger on a deal.
With the way the team looks now they will want to use this SB window sooner rather than later. After paying the price to get this OL functioning they will aim to have at least 4 of those guys back next year playing their current position. If they do not see an immediate replacement for Okung in the draft/FA they will pay to keep him. I think Sweezy is more replaceable via draft/FA/glo&Soko.
Irvine is also hard to replace with his LB/DE roll and i think they will do their best to keep him too.
I will not be surprised to see both signing back-loaded contracts to leave for room for win now roster management. With nice signing bonuses they should not take more than 12M of the 2016 cap.
Once Okung and Irvine are signed the rest of the mid level extensions (DTs, Sweezy) will be economic decisions. They will keep Shead and Lane and at least one of the kickers.
As for the pick, i still carry some of the disappointment over Kam’s holdout so YES, bring the guy that may replace him in 2017 when his contract cost goes up.
“I will not be surprised to see both signing back-loaded contracts to leave for room for win now roster management. With nice signing bonuses they should not take more than 12M of the 2016 cap.”
I’ll be keen to see how the FO handles this offseason with these guys and the cap hit. As it stands they have $112m (roughly 2/3 of the cap) committed to 2017 and $79 m (roughly 1/2 of the cap) to 2018. All those big contracts are feeling it.
So I’m not sure they would back load too heavily as 1-that hasn’t been their overall policy and 2-that really reduces future flexibility.
It does highlight how much they need Lockett, Clark, Rawls and all the other young & cheap talent to keep developing. The days of having their QB take them to Super Bowls on a $500k salary are done!
I arrived early to my doctors appointment. So sitting in the parking , I was listening to brock and salk show and they was doing true confession. There was one that just stuck with me and had me rolling on the floor. The guy that called in was saying as he watch the Seattle and Arizona game and Wilson was sacked again he jumped up and scream, who’s friggin idea was it to bring 5 matadors in to be the damn offensive line. Its amazing how 3 games have everyone back on the band wagon.
Rob if Miles Jack slips would he fit as an Irvin replacement (assuming he is healthy)?
Could be. I think he’s versatile enough to play in any linebacker spot.
I really like Jack, but I think he plays more like Kam than he does Irvin. Jack is really physical despite being a bit undersized as a LB.
Not Seahawks related. But rival related. Seems like most have the Rams taking a wide receiver early. Which makes sense, given their needs but Most seem to think they will take a quarterback as well in the draft.
Any thought as to Kevin Hogan from Stanford going to the Rams to solve their quarterback situation?
Personally I think it would be a good fit. He’s a big dude, with under rated athletisicm, doesn’t make a ton of mistakes, manages the game really well. He’s smart, coming out of a pro style offense and we have seen what he can do with a dynamic rb to help him out. Also doesn’t get a lot of love, will be available later on.
Hogan with Gurley, plus a new receiving threat could be a good start.
It’s a messy picture in St Louis. The Foles trade appears to be a flop but I’m not sure Bradford would’ve been any better.
Fisher is in the last year of his deal next year and hasn’t delivered in his time there – 23-35 while pulling down top 5 coach money. Can he afford to go with a rookie QB?
Then there’s the relocation situation which muddies everything.
I’m not a big fan of Hogan. Could actually see him going undrafted.
Generally speaking though the Rams will be interesting. Fisher’s last good season as a coach was with the Titans in 2008 when he plugged in Kerry Collins, had a rookie Chris Johnson running the ball and they went 13-3. Is there a place-holder QB around? An Alex Smith type? I’m not sure. It’s hard to imagine there’d be an adequate starter. Chase Daniel maybe?
The alternative is to go big in the draft to find ‘your guy’ and solve that problem. It could be a big splash and they have to do something. They surely can’t keep being bad with the QB play largely responsible. But if they do go for a rookie, it has to be someone who can start early. Who is that in this class? It’s a massive dilemma for the Rams.
If the RAMS go 0-4 in the last 4 games…. dude is a goner. If he goes 3-1, they will be 7-9 again….. talk about squandering a great opportunity with all the high draft picks. I would let him go, but who the hell would be available to turn that dumpster fire around…… RB and DL look solid going into 2016, LBs are pretty good as well…. but WR, TE, CB and S are not very good and the OL is discombobulated. I forgot, they have no answer at QB on the team currently….
Does Adolphus Washington’s stock drop after being charged with ‘solicitation?’
I’d be all over dude if he fell into the 3rd round, which probably won’t happen. Interested to see the fallout, if any, from this.
His stock probably does drop some. Not sure what he was soliciting…theres a world of difference between weed and crack! Haha
The charge of solicitation is pretty vague. It’s definition is arranging for someone else to commit a crime. I’m sure the severity of the punishment will depend on what type of solicitation was happening.
Aren’t we talking prostitution?
That’s usually what a solicitation charge is for. If so, I doubt it will impact his stock much.
I don’t think solicitation specifically involves prostitution. But if it is, what kind of crime are we talking about? Soliciting a prostitute, or pimping women? If it’s the latter, I believe there are hefty consequences for those crimes, and more disinterest from NFL teams or at least hopefully so. Pimps in the literal sense are bad people yo.
Soliciting a prostitue is what’s being reported. Suspended for the Fiesta Bowl.
I think it’ll hurt his stock, but probably not enough to drop him outta round 2, unless he has an awful combine/pro day.
I do not see Graham getting cut, no way. Maybe a trade, but not getting cut.
The Lions might be cleaning house soon, maybe swing Graham for Tate and call it good.
Would the Seahawks have Tate back?
He’s been pretty vocal in how upset he was at not getting a contract offer for what he thought he was worth.
And of course there are ‘those rumours’
I think Tate understands winning and championship opportunities… he is not going to get it in Detroit. I know about the rumors, but they are also professionals. I’ve never heard Tate or RW say bad things about each other on the football field. He is a WR they would love to have and his price would be about right. Just something to think about, if you HAVE TO trade Graham.
There won’t be a trade either. He’s torn a patellar tendon. Nobody is trading for JG during the recovery process of such a serious injury.
Find a back to pair with Rawls. We had Lynch and drafted Turbin and then CMike after. How many years dopes Lynch have left? And Jackson wont be here next year. Derrick Henry anyone?
Alex Collins in Round 3 sounds like a good deal for a backup runningback. Then make sure to get a pass-catching back in free agency. Maybe F-Jax will have one more year in him after this one?
Another option would be to get Turbin back as the 3rd down guy.
I think the 3rd will be the sweet spot for well-known RBs…. there will be the vast majority of choices available in this round.. except for 2-3 guys. The late rounds will be the diamond in the rough type of guys.. would not surpise me to see Seattle grab 2 guys… 1 in the 3rd round range and 1 in the 7th round area. Maybe one of the Hybrid guys like Devon Johnson.
Turbin looks awful. I suspect they cut him over more than just an injury. Dude seems to have checked out.
There’s some durability concerns over Devin Johnson. Nice college player.
The best FBs that actually posess some athletic traits look to be Navy’s Chris Swainn, big time speed freak, N’Western’s Dan Vitale, STs stud/highly versatile, and Memphis FB/TE Alan Cross, team leader and kind of a Delanie Walker type.
Then guys like K-ST’s Glenn Gronkowski and Wisconsin’s Derek Watt will get drafted because of the name on the back of their jersey. Both are ‘meh,’ Watt is the better of the 2. Both throw back, old school TE’s.
Big fan of Henry, but don’t see him as a good fit for us. He’d look good for Dallas and NYJ among others.
I agree that there will be some good looking RB’s in the 3rd round and after. Our draft priorities at RB are absolutely tied to our plans with Lynch. If we are planning on keeping him then I wouldn’t prioritize RB in the draft with any of our first 4 picks. I’m really intrigued with a Lynch and Rawls RBC, and holding onto Lynch doesn’t cripple our cap room too much. If Lynch goes then the RB need goes up into the 3rd round, where some nice prospects like Collins, Perkins and Booker, among others, could be available.
My eye for a RB is focused on the 2017 draft. Fournette, Perine, Cook, Freeman and Chubb-assuming he comes back healthy- all look like day 1-early day 2 picks. JS has to be keenly aware of the massive potential of that class. Do we spend a day 2 pick on a RB this year and effectively punt on the top talent of the 2017 class, or keep Lynch and use a late pick on a RB/stop gap FA RB, which sets up RB being more of a need for the superb 2017 class? It’ll be interesting to see what happens.
Let’s assume Lynch is gone. I think it is 50/50 right now.
The RB group needs to be replenished. I also belive they need to figure out if they are going to get a new FB…. carrying 2-3 guys for that position doesn’t make sense to me. Condese it down to 1 FB guy and TE/FB type and call it good. Plenty of work to do in the run game department in the off season.
I for one hope that Lynch returns for the playoffs and sends his time in Seattle off with style. He is a generational talent and has inspired a whole crop of young RBs to go bestmode on every play. He transcended the game and will be missed when he is done playing.
Still like Dixon from LaTech. Physical runner. Actually a very good mirror to Rawls.
“I for one hope that Lynch returns for the playoffs and sends his time in Seattle off with style. He is a generational talent and has inspired a whole crop of young RBs to go bestmode on every play. He transcended the game and will be missed when he is done playing.”
Well said Charlie. I think Lynch will be one of the “Mt. Rushmore players” of this decade. He, along with the Seahawks philosophy of the runningback, has changed how the game is viewed offensively. As much as other teams will decline to admit it, the Seahawks really have changed football the past three or so years.
Few things to say about the above posts: The Seahawks cannot keep Lynch on the roster with his massive contract next year. If we release him, chances are he goes somewhere else or retires. But I’m sure there will be at least a modicum of chance he could sign back here for less. Additionally, although i can’t see the Seahawks adding a power back like Derrick Henry early, I also can’t see Dallas getting him. The Cowboys run a ZBS just like us. He is just as much unfit for them as he is for us. We like to have power in our backs but they also need to be agile and good decision-makers. That is Lynch. Rawls is becoming that. Christine Michael has always been a lacking decision-maker. Additionally, it could be a good idea to trade a 1 this year for a 1 next year, particularly from a team who may not be very good in 2017. That happened once before with the Broncos/Seahawks trade that landed us Earl Thomas. Lastly, correct me if I’m wrong but I thought Kenneth Dixon was primarily a power back. Isn’t he just as much a non-fit for us as Derrick Henry? Give me a scouting report.
Thomas Rawls and Marshawn Lynch aren’t power backs?
“The Seahawks cannot keep Lynch on the roster with his massive contract next year.” Miles
I disagree. While getting rid of Lynch’s would give us $6.5 mil in cap relief-creating $5 mil in dead money-it is not a necessity. Keeping Lynch would force us to be more selective in who we keep out of our FA’s. We have plenty of roster depth and draft ammunition to field a championship roster, while keeping Lynch on his current deal. I agree with Charlie that it’s 50/50 on whether we keep the Beast. I’d like to see him stay, but I think everybody involved would understand the business aspect if Lynch was gone in 2016. A Rawls and Lynch RBC would be lethal!!!
I think the Seahawks would struggle to manage a RBBC including Lynch and Rawls. Marshawn wasn’t happy with Bevell when he mentioned a committee approach in the past. Is he going to want to split carriers with a young UDFA? Let’s not forget — after Rawls ran for 169 yards against the Bengals, Lynch returned the following week and Rawls had just one carry against the Panthers. There was no committee then — when it seemed almost certain. Would Lynch become a problem in the locker room if/when he isn’t ‘the guy’? And if Rawls continues to perform at his current level — is he going to eat more and more into Lynch’s snaps? Because if both guys were healthy right now, I’d shudder at the thought of taking Rawls out of the vital downs. He’s proven to be that good.
In an ideal world Marshawn would be like Fred Jackson or a Matt Hasselbeck and accept the changing circumstances and the way a career goes. I think we all know Lynch isn’t cut from the same cloth of those two. And not being ‘the guy’ any more wouldn’t be a good thing for him or the Seahawks, especially if he’s taking up $11.5m of your cap in 2016.
The writing, sadly, is on the wall for Beast Mode in Seattle. I kind of hope he continues playing, probably in Oakland.
IDK- Lynch seems to like mentoring Rawls. Telling him before the Pittsburgh game ‘I’m passing the torch to you for this one.’
If it helps Lynch take less of a beating or pounding, he’d probably enjoy working in tandem with Rawls.
Now, obviously the big question mark is, can they give them both enough carries and still be effective while maintaining the ‘fluidness’ this offense has found.
At least I’m hoping, but I could see Seattle wanting Lynch to take a pay cut. Basically saying ‘take it or leave it. It’s up to you if yoy wanna end your career here in the PNW.’
I agree about Dixon. Great pass catching back too.
Well the Hawks slim division hopes are shot with the Vikings making some idiotic play calls in the clutch.
The Hawks were probably locked in for the 5-seed anyway. They now control their own destiny for it, which is nice, and probably play the NFC East winner round 1.
The NFC East winner? That’s a good one. I’ll just call them the NFC East “representative”.
I remember a team, not long ago, who was the NFCW “representative”….. they knocked off the Saints who were heavily favored in that game.
Yep what Miles said. Plus if the Cards are locked into that #2 seed on week 17 Arians just might want to rest Palmer and other starters. Watching tonight’s game really showed how well the Hawks played Minny last week. We flat out dominated the Vikes in every facet, while Arizona barely pulled out the victory at home.
That win against Minnesota looks better after tonight’s game.
I saw something saying that the most rushing yards Seattle has given up to a single runner this year was week 2 against GB, and no, it wasn’t the highly overrated Eddie Lacy, but 90 yards from James Starks. Wow! Impresive no matter how ya slice it.
Oops! Meant to say ‘even’ better. Seattle’s last 2 wins were some of the most impressive by any team this year.
We have already seen Kam hold out for a new contract, we also know that Bennett isn’t happy with his contract.. so I wouldn’t be surprised to see either of them try yet again. hopefully the hawks don’t capitulate..
I would. Kam’s holdout got him nowhere.
However, I could see some sort of restructuring like what SEA did for Lynch – not more money, just more now instead of later.
But that is capitulation. Now that he has established a greater value for next year he will expect the same or more from them on.
Seattle’s 2017 UFA class includes Doug Baldwin, Steven Hauschka, Jordan Hill, Luke Willson, Kelcie McCray & Tharold Simon.
If you don’t see your name on that list then you ain’t getting more money this off season. Of those guys listed, got to believe Baldwin is a slam dunk for an early extension. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Luke Willson get an early one too. Hill & Simon are perennially injured. Hauschka is a keeper. I’m not sure yet what we have in McCray.
Kam, Bennett and Avril all have 2 years or more left on their deals, end of negotiation.
Looks like McCray is a pure special teamer. He has a squatty body and is short. Sort of a Jeron Johnson type who could play SS in a pinch but you don’t really want him to. For what it’s worth, he’s been excellent on special teams, getting in on lots of tackles.
What do you mean? Kam hasn’t established greater value. He’s not having a good season. He is showing that if the Seahawks had given him more money, it would have been a disaster. Any leverage he had before is now gone. He needs to make some plays before he asks JS to even think about opening that pocketbook.
If I had to place a bet today, I would wager that John trades out of R1 (duh) and with the R2 pick so obtained selects Alabama center Ryan Kelly, 6-4, 295, first-team All American, Rimington Award winner, 3 year starter, all-academic team, hasn’t given up a sack all season, elite leadership skills, as good as it gets in line calls, only one penalty all season, never called for holding, key blocker for likely Heisman winner Derrick Henry… after a year in a pro weight program he will be ready to go. Another Kevin Mawai / Max Unger type.
This is a really good prediction, because it’s totally off the radar and fills an obvious “need area.” Still hoping that Patrick Lewis ends up being “the guy,” by which I mean he becomes solid enough and trusted enough to not worry about spending great resources on the position. That would make our whole team better based on cap dollars and draft capital.
No one is talking about Britt. Has he improved?? Or do you just figure that like Sweezy it is easy to replace a guard?
I think we are still vulnerable in the tackle positions. I like the way Okung and Gilliam have played lately. I just can’t shake this feeling that Okung is injury prone. Even if he isn’t, it wouldn’t hurt to have a backup swing tackle. And it wouldn’t hurt to get a road grader guard, their are many selections in the second round. Center is a fine pick to as long as Lewis remains on the team – he has earned it.
Of those choices at the end of the first round we could get the 6-7 tackle, the 2nd center, or the 2-3 guard off the board. Value wise it is probably tackle as they are worth 8-10 million a year. And before someone says they don’t see value at the end of the first, just remember what value we got for Britt at the end of the second.
How do you know the value ahead of time?
It’s a guess that is proven out over the course of years.
Christine Michael, 2nd round pick, Robert Tubin, 4th round pick vs Thomas Rawls, UDFA at RB.
Justin Britt, 2nd round pick vs Garry Gilliam, UDFA at RT. etc.
Draft position doesn’t guarantee a starting role let alone a roster spot. At least not on the Seahawks.
PC said that they had to pick Britt in the second because there was a huge dropoff in available tackles before their next pick. Most sites had him graded as a 4th rounder.
Britt has improved considerably as run blocking LG, but still pretty miserable in pass pro. Even so, I think he gets another season to lock down the position.
I don’t know why people think Okung is injury prone. Also, he’s tough as nails, having played through some injuries that might sideline other players.
That’s a little unfair to Britt. He’s not so much miserable in pass pro as he is inconsistent.
I like Britt fine as a backup. He can learn behind Alex Boone.
Britt’s play from the first few games to the last few games, is night and day. Agreed that his pass pro is still lacking. The amount of progress that Britt has made this year has been impressive and a bit surprising. Imo. Absolutely he gets another year at LG.
“I don’t know why people think Okung is injury prone. Also, he’s tough as nails, having played through some injuries that might sideline other players.”
You don’t? He has played in 70 of a possible 92 games since drafted, and never played a full 16 in a season. I’m not advocating the Hawks kick him to the curb but c’mon, let’s be honest about it: Okung has been hurt, and has missed games to injury.
I would add Notre Dame C Nick Martin to that same scenario as another option.
Barrett Jones also won the Rimington, so I’m not sure how much of an endorsement that is.
Kelly may or may not be better than Jones, but IMO he’s not the best C in this class. Martin is.
Either way, I don’t see SEA taking a C with their first pick. If history proves anything, it’s that they prefer a KNOWN veteran option (either in FA or via trade) to drafting.
Yeah- I like Kelly and Martin, but I’m with CHawk, I can’t see Seattle going C with their 1st overall pick. IMO they’ll take an OT early on and a G/C type of guy later in the draft. Someone that’s highly versatile.
Kelly in the 2nd round would be a major reach.
‘Bama pospect that fits best for Seattle? OLB/DE Tim Williams. I’m telling ya’ll, he’s the real deal. And he’s not 230 either. Says on his twitter account that he hasn’t been 230 since his FR year. He actually weighs about 255 lbs. He’s a unique pass rush specialist, with the lateral agility and closing speed/burst to play the SAM or OTTO role.
Lewis playing at a functional level at C helps things. That and drafting a C with your first pick, while a possibly solid move, is not much of a crowd pleaser unless they are out of this world like Hutchinson at G back in the day.
I would be all for bringing in another stud pass rusher. What’s your feel on Williams vs Calhoun if one or the other is off the board?
I like both. But, for me, Williams has a tremendous amount of upside. More than Calhoun. Calhoun looks to be more of a DE or LEO, whereas Williams is more in the mold of a Bruce Irvin.
If they lose Bruce, I think one of their first 3 selections will be a guy to replace him. If they keep Bruce, I can’t see them spending anything other than a mid to late round pick on a developmental backup type of edge rusher.
Had Williams played anywhere else, he woulda put up some ridiculous stats. He’s what people think Leonard Floyd is.
Like Rob said, Williams isn’t being talked about enough nationally. It really does remind me of a Frank Clark kind of scenario.
FWIW, Miami really wanted this guy coming out of HS.
From 247sports:
Through 13 games, Williams has registered 9.5 sacks from his Jack linebacker position. According to Pro Football Focus, the Baton Rouge, La., native has a pass rush productivity of 30.9, by far the highest in the nation of any rusher with at least 100 attempts
The secret for Williams’ success is his off-field preparation. The former four-star prospect spent his offseason working to bulk up for Alabama’s 2015 campaign. Following the team’s 29-15 win over Florida, Williams said he is up to 260 pounds.
“I’m really proud of Tim Williams,” Saban said after the SEC Championship Game. “He’s had some struggles in his career, he’s battled hard to overcome them and he’s doing better in school, as well as has really got pass rush ability. And we’ve been able to use him in that role this year, and he has created a lot of pressure for us playing on third down and done a really good job of affecting the quarterback.”
He’s been excellent. Another guy nobody talks about nationally.
(and yet players like Jerald Hawkins are)
Good info there CHawk. Like Bruce Irvin, Williams has gotten into trouble off the field, has a child, and battled adversity at a young age.
The needs and priorities of the Hawks will be determined by how they perform in the next 4 games and playoffs. I agree, it looks like the OL is improving in leaps and bounds and not be as much of a priority in the draft.
My dream scenario: trade #31 draft pick for high 2nd Rd pick and 4th rd pick. Use new 4th, Hawks 3rd, + ? to move up to 2nd rd.
Hawks pick:
2A Tyler Boyd WR
2B Alex Collins RB
2C Mile Killebrew LB
I really like that scenario or would like that draft.
I’m not sure though that you’d have to move up to get RB Alex Collins. The 3rd round, at least currently, looks to be the ‘pocket’ where the RBs will start coming off the board.
And with the crazy amount of talent at the RB position in 2017, I wonder if that will give teams a reason to pause on drafting backs this year.
Also, we know how Seattle has started the trend of big,long, physical corners. With the success of ‘Rhino’ Rawls as an UDFA, teams might be inclined to believe they can also find undrafted backs.
In this scenario, I’d go Tim Williams over Collins, considering the RB talent likely to be available later on (not to mention next year). And Shepard over Boyd if possible.
Imagine coming away from the draft with Shepard, Williams and Killebrew!
Wow! I like how you think my man. That’d be a dream scenario for V12.
I’m liking Tim Williams in that 2nd round range myself.
Also, glad ya like Sterling Sheppard.