Notes below…
1. Browns — Myles Garrett (EDGE, Texas A&M)
2. 49ers — Mitch Trubisky (QB, North Carolina)
3. Jaguars — Leonard Fournette (RB, LSU)
4. Bears — Jonathan Allen (DE, Alabama)
5. Jets — Reuben Foster (LB, Alabama)
6. Titans (via Rams) — Jabrill Peppers (S, Michigan)
7. Browns (via Eagles) — Dalvin Cook (RB, Florida State)
8. Chargers — Jamal Adams (S, LSU)
9. Cardinals — Marlon Humphrey (CB, Alabama)
10. Bengals — Tim Williams (EDGE, Alabama)
11. Panthers — Takkarist McKinley (EDGE, UCLA)
12. Saints — Zach Cunningham (LB, Vanderbilt)
13. Bills — O.J. Howard (TE, Alabama)
14. Colts — Ryan Ramczyk (T, Wisconsin)
15. Eagles (via Vikings) — John Ross (WR, Washington)
16. Washington — Malik Hooker (S, Ohio State)
17. Titans — Sidney Jones (CB, Washington)
18. Ravens — Demarcus Walker (DE, Florida State)
19. Buccaneers — Adoree’ Jackson (CB, USC)
20. Packers — Quincy Wilson (CB, Florida)
21. Broncos — Garett Bolles (T, Utah)
22. Texans — Charles Harris (EDGE, Missouri)
23. Miami — Jalen Tabor (CB, Florida)
24. Giants — Solomon Thomas (DE, Stanford)
25. Lions — Taco Charlton (EDGE, Michigan)
26. Steelers — Deshaun Watson (QB, Clemson)
27. Falcons — Budda Baker (S, Washington)
28. Chiefs — Mike Williams (WR, Clemson)
29. **TRADE** Browns — Deshone Kizer (QB, Notre Dame)
30. Raiders — Christian McCaffrey (RB, Stanford)
31. Patriots — Obi Melifonwu (S, Connecticut)
32. Cowboys — Derek Barnett (DE, Tennessee)
Top-10 in round two
33. Seahawks — ??????
34. 49ers — JuJu Smith-Schuster (WR, USC)
35. Jaguars — Tre’Davious White (CB, LSU)
36. Bears — Jarrad Davis (LB, Florida)
37. Rams — Marshon Lattimore (CB, Ohio State)
38. Jets — Gareon Conley (CB, Ohio State)
39. Chargers — Cam Robinson (T, Alabama)
40. Eagles — Kevin King (CB, Washington)
41. Cardinals — Derrick Nnadi (DT, Florida State)
42. Panthers — Justin Evans (S, Texas A&M)
Three things…
1. I had the Seahawks trading out of the first round. They don’t own a fourth or fifth round pick, so such a scenario to acquire a day three selection is very possible.
2. You’ll notice I didn’t actually put the Seahawks with a prospect. There’s a reason for that, explained below.
3. I’m not entirely satisfied with the mock draft — but that’s testament to the quality of the players. I wanted to get the two Ohio State cornerbacks (Lattimore and Conley) into round one. I wanted to get Justin Evans into the first frame. I wanted to put Derek Barnett higher than #32. I couldn’t find a way this time — and that highlights how interesting this draft class is.
So why no pick for the Seahawks? I’m battling with the direction they could go and rather than offer an opinion, I want yours.
Let me offer some scenarios:
Repair the running game
Is the big need here to make sure the running game is back to normal (by the Seahawks standards) in 2017? It certainly feels like teams are treating the offense differently these days. Less eight-man boxes, less focus on stopping the run. More pass rush. More feeling that if you stop Russell Wilson you can give the Seahawks a major offensive headache.
Do they spend their first pick on a physical, tone-setting runner to compliment what they already have? Do they force teams to focus on the man in the backfield? Is that what’s missing? That Marshawn Lynch fear factor? That punishing inside runner?
Is someone like D’Onta Foreman the answer or is it about further additions to the O-line? Bolles and Ramcyzk are off the board in this mock. Cam Robinson, to quote Bob McGinn’s source, is “talented but he gets lazy.” Is that a Seahawks O-liner?
Is this a situation that can be addressed later on? Are you prepared to wait for a Chad Wheeler, Adam Bisnowaty type in the middle rounds and a running back like James Conner or Samaje Perine?
That might make sense in terms of value — but if it doesn’t have the desired effect and the offense looks the same in 2017, will you rue not making a bigger splash?
Find another defensive tackle or inside/out rusher
This mock assumes Vita Vea won’t declare. Elijah Qualls could be an option if he does turn pro. Derrick Nnadi, Chris Wormley, Caleb Brantley, Dalvin Tomlinson and others are still on the board.
The Seahawks certainly lack an interior impacter. Someone who makes life easier for the EDGE guys and can move or impact the QB without necessarily racking up 10 sacks. Someone equally capable of being stout vs the run and holding a double team.
For a while they’ve needed a classic three-technique but it might be difficult to find in this class. They’ve missed the 2013 and 2014 production of Clinton McDonald and Jordan Hill (6.5 sacks each). Filling that void would certainly help the defense get back to its best. Some will argue it’s Seattle’s biggest need.
It might also be tough to find a really good inside/out rusher with a lot of the better options off the board in this mock.
Yet the defense is still #2 in points conceded and they have a shot to be #1 in that category for an unprecedented fifth year in a row. If it wasn’t for the Green Bay meltdown they’d virtually have the title in the bag. And let’s not forget — that nightmare in Lambeau was inspired by a six-turnover performance on offense. Is the defense good enough to think much of the focus should be on the other side of the ball?
With cap room to spend in 2017 this could be an area they look at in free agency. The Seahawks have a better record for finding veteran D-liners than they do drafting them. And yet along with safety and cornerback — D-line is probably the strength of the 2017 draft class.
The addition of John Jenkins was an intriguing one, especially with Pete Carroll referencing the need to find more interior pass rush when he signed his contract. Are they looking for a massive big man who also provides some disruption? This class is rich in players like that. If they could get anywhere near Vita Vea they’d probably be all over it. They might settle for Qualls or Greg Gaines if they declare. There are plenty of alternatives too.
On a side note I think they’ll really like this Husky team. Pettis, Ross, Mathis, the trio of D-liners, Jones, Baker, Coleman. Plus Shalom Luani at Washington State (more on him in a moment). The local guys might stick around.
Take a safety
Obi Melifonwu is pretty unique. His size, range, athleticism and upside are ridiculous. There isn’t really anyone like him. That will appeal to a lot of teams including the Seahawks. He also might be a bit of a luxury that doesn’t really address the pressing issues on this team.
Justin Evans is a hard-hitting, fun to watch safety. He’s not close to being as rangy as Earl though. He’s still a really good player.
Budda Baker is the guy I think you can make the best case for in this scenario but he’s off the board. Earl Thomas’ threat to retire makes this a talking point. Assuming he comes back, taking a safety early seems a long shot. Especially with players like Shalom Luani possibly available later. And it’s worth noting — Kris Richard and Richard Sherman both stated in the last 24 hours they fully expect Thomas to continue playing.
Luani is a really intriguing player. There is a little bit of Troy Polamalu to his game. Depending on how he performs at the combine — don’t be surprised if he starts to fly up many boards. If he’s around in rounds 2-3 for the Seahawks, he could be someone they take a long look at. He might sneak into the top-40.
Make a big splash
Maybe it’s time for Seattle to trade up to add another star on a reasonable contract? Doesn’t it feel like they need a boost? Are they going to get that picking in the same areas as the last four drafts?
Jalen Ramsey, the #5 pick this year, has a cap hit of $7.4m in 2019. That’s the final year of his deal. If you move up for a top prospect you can get fantastic value. And maybe, just maybe, it’s time for this team to consider adding another impact player? Making another bold move?
Leonard Fournette? Jonathan Allen?
The risk is clear — if the player doesn’t work out, the investment is so rich it can set a franchise back considerably. Yet the Seahawks already have a good team. They survived the Percy Harvin bust. Even in this muddled, confusing 2016 season they’re on track to be the NFC’s #2 seed. They are seemingly better placed than most teams to make a splash. And if it worked — it could be the thing that puts them over the top again.
I’ve never thought the Seahawks trading up was remotely likely in previous drafts. It’s still unlikely and would require a team being willing to cut a deal. But for the first time since 2008 — I think it’s at least worth discussing as an option.
Yes it could be an expensive gamble. Yet an expected third round compensatory pick in 2017 would mean the Seahawks would still pick three times in the first three rounds if they trade up and spend their second round pick as well as a future first rounder plus change.
The price tag might just be too rich. And that means collecting talent in the way they’ve done in the previous two drafts. If they were able to get an interior disruptor on defense, some safety help such as Luani, another talented running back and a right tackle — they would feel good about their situation. Plus they have the money to go and make at least one significant move in free agency.
But just imagine having another stud like Fournette in that backfield, or someone like Allen rushing inside. Maybe it’s best not to think about how cool that would be.
So what do you think? Let me know in the comments section.
What if QJeff is that guy that gives us 4-6 sacks from the interior? Obviously he’s not a sure thing, but grabbing a hedge for him in FA or later in the draft makes sense.
I look at the roster and there’s one position they aren’t settled on and its week 16. RT. If Seattle grades against their roster, and we know they do in some form or fashion, that’s gotta be the position with the surest sign of an upgrade. It’ll also boost the run game IMO. All of Seattle’s big runs this year have come from the right side.
As for RB. Yes, I think one is needed, but more of that 3rd guy that can backup or come in for Rawls & Prosise. I think those 2 have a chance of being a ? backfield. There’s gonna be guys in this draft at RB that you can grab on day 3 or at the end of round 3 for example that can fill that role.
There’s a lot to like about Rawls & Prosise — but I worry teams aren’t fearful of Seattle’s running game anymore. That they’re willing to take their chances with those two. That they don’t have to commit to the eight man box like they did with Lynch. That they can afford to rush a little more, attack that OL and try to impact Wilson knowing the Seahawks will freely abandon their running game if they face adversity (which is what they’ve done consistently during the tough times this season).
So while Rawls and Prosise might be (insert fire emoji here) — I wonder if they also need someone who draws attention in the way Lynch did (without necessarily being as good as Lynch, a legendary player).
Agree on RT though. Bolles is the ideal pick really IMO.
Have you had an opportunity to look at Moton yet at OT? He looks pretty athletic to me.
Are you asking me or Rob?
Anybody! I like Moton, and I’m curious whether other folks see him as a potential Seahawks player.
I liked both of their Tackles.
Are they the athletes we require though?
Yes I like Moton. And Lamp. But, they might both be Guards at the next level. Lamp more so.
Moton is a throwback RT. Great run blocker, plays through the whistle, huge kid.
Like Morton a lot and think he will be a big riser this draft season. I m not sure how he will test but you have to love his attitude.
Seattle kind of went away from SPARQ last year though except for Ifedi and ‘Prosisely.’
Could that be the case again? Maybe its more about thresholds and physical requirements?
I always hearken back to the post-draft comments PC had to say about Joey Hunt
Looks down, spacily, “yeah, we had to get that done”
Why? Was he so smart?
You know, in that town hall article I dug up when Rob was first developing TEF, Tom Cable tried to emphasize how important intelligence was for his OL.
Smarts, Bully, TEF; in that order I think.
And perhaps they have a 2/3 passing grade on someone like Hunt or maybe a local guy with an adversity-laden background gets bumped up ala Odhiambo
That’s a good point and something I wonder/worry about myself, but I’m just not sure or sold yet if that has to be solved with a 1st or 2nd rounder.
Bolles does scream ‘Seahawk.’
Trade Sherman and a first next year and a third this year. Draft Leanard Fournette, and Budda Baker, Sidney Jones, or Adore Jackson to the LOB.
Take the money from Sherman’s contact to sign an imposing DT like Campbell. See if Breno will come back at RT for a year and help this young line figure it out.
Get a Sam linebacker to finally replace Bruce Irvin in the 2nd and more depth at DT in the 3rd
Draft Lavon Coleman and Dante Pettis in the later rounds.
I know I’m still overreacting, but threatening to ruin someone’s career after questioning his bosses really did me in on Sherman. I am positive I’m not alone because I read your comments. Pete Carroll is deserving of the player’s respect and honor. Just another reason why Russell Wilson is a great role model not only to children but to younger football players. He really is someone to admire for us all.
Richard Sherman is worth alot. I know how good he is because I watch him play every game. I believe more then anything we need more push up the middle to make opposing QB’s release the ball quicker.
We must get Fournette!
If Rob is so high on him and I trust him it’s worth the payload! Leanord “The Leapord” is exactly what we need post Beast-Mode!
I’m sure some of you will think I’m being absurd, I want a team of People as Player’s I root for no jerks on this team. Doug Baldwin was going Sherman’s way but changed his course for the better and I’m proud of him for growing up!
It’s not too late for Sherman to shape up but right now he’d be suited being the arrogant star on a lesser team. I feel bad for judging, he really crossed the slippery slope with me.
Go Hawks!
If you want a team of a bunch of good ol’ boys, who are squeaky clean, that’s all you my man.
Good luck winning with that group!
To me it looks like the reason why teams don’t fear are running game is because our o-line is pathetic. Rawls looks like a back that teams would fear (maybe not as much as Lynch) if we had a decent o-line. It seems to me that we don’t need another back we just need some decent blocking
O-line was bad in the past. Teams still feared the run.
O line is worse now. Look at Rawls yards before contact, and yards after contact in the last game.
O line used to be at least good at run blocking. Now they aren’t even good at that.
Fournette got swamped by Alabama. Gurley gets swamped on Rams. O line is where the run game starts.
Fournette got swamped because the Alabama front seven is NFL level with multiple R1 and R2 picks and LSU’s OL is barely average at college level. That kind of mismatch doesn’t exist in the NFL. Plus LSU hasn’t even had a bad QB since Mettenberger. The guys they had this year and last were really really really bad. So ‘Bama could focus purely on the run. If people are judging Fournette on those two games, it’ll be a mistake.
Gurley similarly can’t run in LA because nobody, absolutely nobody, respects their passing game in the slightest.
I agree with that, need more solid performance out of our offensive line. But I would still like to add another running back in case of injuries and just for the variety.
I am with you completely on this one Vol.
RT is this team one clear area of need and as Rob has hi-lighted many times when they have a need PC/JS address it early.
I really believe Bolles is the ideal pick in Rd #1 much like Ifedi was the probably the correct pick last year. I realize Bolles in gone in this mock but if he is on the board then he has to be the pick IMO as he helps in the run game as well.
Then go DT in Rd # and hope a guy like Nnadi is there.
Rd #3 and 3rd Round Comp would be the spot for and RB like Perine or the kid out of Toledo and a Safety like Luani
If the Hawks could come out of the 1st two days with a combination of Bolles, Nnadi, Perrine and Luani I would be ecstatic
I think if you give this OL another year to gel and add Bolles + Perrine then this run game would improve dramatically with a healthy Prosise and Rawls to start the 2017 season.
That’d be a great draft.
I really like Joe Mathis from Udub too. Just an incredible talent. I really think he’s gonna shoot up boards. He’s a 2nd rounder for me and could play the Bruce Irvin role.
Yeah big fan of Mathis when I took a look after you pointed him out. I think he is a 2nd round talent they may be able to get in the mid rounds because of the injuries. Really hope they take advantage of the local knowledge and grab him.
No hope for Ifedi at RT and thus being able to use less draft capital on a guard? Bisnowaty in the 3rd after tapping some DT depth in the 1st. Ifedi’s length, size and athleticism….he looks like a RT.
I agree with this, Volume, in that RT has to be the #1 need moving forward. I’d put adding a #2, and DL probably #3, or #4 because I think a rush LB to play SAM is a need.
I think there is a chance interior rush comes next year from Jefferson, and I wouldn’t discount the continued development of Reed.
I’d propose a slight trade up to secure Bolles, look to add Perine, or Foreman day 2.
RB #2 need.
I still like Prosise a lot – his receiving skills will give RW an audible ability to change calls at the line, he’s big, and he can be used on screen passes that are good blitz busters. Prosise’s injury wasn’t a leg injury – I’m still super high on the guy. More so I guess than QJeff….I guess I’m saying OL and DL are higher priorities than RB. Plus I think everybody loves Zeke Elliot so the high 1st rdrafted RB idea is novel for a second….Zeke is a beast no doubt (I drafted him in my Fantasy league after watching him play in the preseason vs the Hawks – I could see he was a player and I’m just a guy) but that O-line he runs behind is truly awesome. Guys like Peterson, Zeke, and Fournette are awesome but rare – good RB can be had in the mid rounds.
You can find good players at any position in the middle rounds. Really good RB’s are no different to any other position. And Seattle’s offense and identity makes the run much more important than other places like Green Bay (for example).
I have to agree with this. I think the narrative of the 2016 Seattle Seahawks has been more about needing to find the run game more so than the pass rush, and that can’t be sitting well with Pete Carroll.
Jefferson was a 5th rounder and could easily be Gregg Scruggs 2.0. Reed was known as a run stuffer in college that’s why he was available in Rd2….I think both of these players will improve with pro coaching and weight training but maybe not to the impact level desired
Possibly but it has been noted by some that Reed has enough athleticism to develop as a pass rusher, they have used him in pass rush situations, and Carroll said that they let go of Jordan Hill because of the preseason emergence of Jefferson. I think the fact that they traded up for both players means that they like their potential.
I keep thinking about to Dallas’ leaked big board, and QJeff was very high on it. With how Dallas has aced these last few drafts, you have to feel good about QJeff going forward.
How is BYU RB Jamaal Williams a R-SR and he’s only 21? That’s pretty remarkable. Probably means he was a starter at 17 yrs old.
I find him fascinating in large part due to his age, production, skill set, and all that upside he still offers. That’s somewhat unique, different, and pretty damn cool.
Small example of what he has to offer.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bootang25/status/811214711366807552/video/1
Does the signing of JD McKissic at 5’10, 185 lbs., moved him to RB perhaps, and I stress perhaps, mean they’re looking for a type like him?
The Tyler Ervin interest, Lance Dunbar interest. Now that’s not exactly a tone setter or physical hammer, but are they high on Rawls as that guy?
Jamaal Williams is a fantastic put a foot in the ground, one cut runner currently playing in a ZBS that gets himself north & south so quick.
Plays with a ton of passion and swag too.
Williams sounds like one to draft especially being from a Zone Blocking Scheme as you specify. I’d be happy with him in the 4th round or so. Vol? I know you like Lavon Coleman is he worth a 4th – 6th to you. I like what I see in him, and he’s only just starting to get going.
Go Hawks
Yeah. They both are.
Wow! I thought he was a lot older than that!
Not sure why I did.
He really is a hot prospect, in that case.
He is looking great in the pouring rain. He did have a rare fumble (his 2nd in 700+ touches), but he has shown awesome flashes. Great patience and he is extremely hard to tackle. I wanted to watch Wyomings Hill as well but he was suspended for a quarter due to curfew issues.
He’s competitive isn’t he? Just does not go down.
One of the best blocking backs in college to my eye
Holy glory you are the best Seahawks writer in this internet word of ours! You straight rule Brov!
Rob Staton, future Prime Minister/ Ruler of Planet Earth!
Go Hawks
‘Holy glory you are the best Seahawks writer in this internet word of ours!’
I’ll second that.
I’m going to third that vote. Love reading your stuff Rob.
Let’s be honest with our”draft”selves, Fournette will not make it to a place in the 1st round of the draft, where Seattle could reasonably have draft capitol to actually spend to grab him. I think talk about him is great for conversation, but realistically he will not be a Seahawk.
I think it is very realistic to assume Obi Melifonwu will be available in the lower 1st round, I also could see Seattle shuffling around a few 2016/2017 picks to acquire Shalom Luani in the early 3rd round. Is this a bit of over kill at Safety, perhaps….. but both would be able to sit and study behind the best in the game. Both would also be able to contribute in ST or as a 3rd S etc in the normal defenses that Seattle runs.
This would free up the 2nd round pick for OT, RB, WR or TE. There will be some tremendous value at each of these positions in the 2nd round….. I would also say DT/DL, but that would be 3 defensive players and we know that never happens in a draft. They will pick at least 1 offensive player with the 1st 3 picks.
In this mock, the jump we would need to make to get Boles looks pretty substantial, but if not him-who? Id pull the trigger on that one if the cost in draft capital were not prohibitively high. We know a lot of further ìno will flow in as the season resolves into off-season….Earls thoughts on retirement, Gilliam 2.0, any and all late season progress on the part of the O.
Trev, id salivate if we could pull of something like what you outlined-Boles, Nnadi, a Perine or a Conner and a Luani type, though it sounds a lot to ask. Also how do we factor in JS magic off-season FA bảgain hunting for DL and to add to the competition at OT? With the cap where it sít, hé likely to have some wiggle rôm left for one ỏ two modest acquisitions.
I do admit to liking the thought of adding a bigger back-some big meat-tenderizing mallet to soften things up for Tommies slash and gash and CJs slice and dice!
Agreed it is a lot to ask for and some of the guys may go earlier and be off the board. It would be ideal though if not IMO. This is a pretty loaded draft class on days1&2 so they should be able to come away with filling their needs. The key is filling the RT spot with that 1st pick because there really not many guys in this draft who can start day #1 at RT in the NFL.
I’d vote for taking Nnadi at the end of round 1 (or beginning of round 2 if we make that trade with the Browns, which I support). If Vita Vea is there I’d run to the podium! Then grab an impact RB like Foreman or Hunt with our 2nd pick. Followed by OT – Moton, Wheeler, Lamp, or Bisnowaty. I think it’ll come down to who tests at or above the Hawks athletic threshold at the combine. I think we do need a big back like Foreman or Hunt early, or Perrine or Conner in the 3rd/4th. Do you think we could trade our 1st round pick to the Browns for a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th? The Browns have a ton of young players on their roster. I think this year they go for quality instead of quantity.
I like this as well. If we could get a high 4th with a trade down and still get Nnadi I’d be very excited. Same thinking with Forman in the second and Best OT available in the third. I think Seattle needs the bigger back to augment Rawls. I’ve been frustrated… not to the level as Sherman… with the lack of punch on third and short and goal line situations. My thought is go with the strength of the draft and get a nice interior d lineman.
Rawls isn’t the issue. It’s the O-line.
There isn’t one single issue. It’s several problems combining together.
Can anyone tell me the grading system that was mentioned on this site last season in regards to Seahawky type players. It was really intriguing and I wanted to share it with a friend. Something along the lines of testing credentials that PC and JS usually go for.
Was it TEF?
Gotta be TEF, “Trench Explosion Formula.” I’ll probably butcher this to hell, but I think Rob created it by looking specifically at combine results that correlate to previous Seahawks draft trends at OL — specifically as they relate to power (broad jump, bench press) and agility (3-cone, shuttle). Really good work.
Not only based on past Seahawk picks, but self-professed benchmarks at the OL position mentioned by Cable himself.
“We know what their ideal is per Tom Cable (31 inch vert, 9″ broad, 27 bench reps).”
Go to the “Scouting Reports” tab at the top of this page and you will find all the articles for the original TEF and wTEF (weighted TEF) about 25 links down:
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/scouting-reports
Rob, if you have time, you really should dedicate a tab to wTEF, with the full explanation at a click and the articles that mention it each year. It really is a great tool and stands out tall in the Seahawks draft talk world. Keep up the great work!
I will look into installing the TEF tab.
or SPARQ
Rob the idea of Johnathan Allen on our DL really is a dream scenario. I think he is the most surefire prospect in the draft and will be a star. It would take a similar package to what you proposed to move up for Fournette and I have to admit the thought is appealing.
If you believe Bolles is going to be gone when you pick in Rd #1 and you know Earl is coming back then I think if you are going to make a splash and move up for someone it should be for Allen.
Is the any precedent of a team making a big move up to draft a DT?
I’d love Jonathon Allen as well. He’d be the perfect guy for our defense. That could be another question for another day. If you could have 1 guy between Allen and Fournette which one do you take?
Allen all day for me. Really think he has potential to be a true disruptor with interior pressure and that is so rare in the NFL. Also has not injury history. Love Fournette but he has been banged up a lot in college. How will he hold up in NFL.
not to mention some chemistry/reunion with Reed
its hard for me to say what to pick because I don’t know what direction there going to go. are they gonna lean on RW more and keep the run game a t a minimum or are they really trying to be the bully again? if they are trying to be the bully then I don’t see a better pick then LF. the great thing about lynch is he could make that guy in the backfield miss or just straight run over/through them. LF can do that. I don’t know what it would take to move up that far, but these guys don’t come along very often. plus we have a relatively young team still, where a few traded draft picks wont kill us. with Rawls and CJs injury risk its almost a must. with all that being said if they are not going to give it to him 20-25 times a game then its not worth it. then they should go dline or safety. go hawks
Here’s what I’m wondering. Are they perhaps going for that exotic smasmouth style offense that Tennessee and SF under Harbaugh had on offense? Bullies on the O-line and with speed in a spread style attack.
On defense? Back to the suffocating, intimidating, big bad bully on the block that will pull your card and punk you for your lunch $.
They could still trade for Joe Thomas in the off season. That could solve LT for 2-3 years possibly.
I’m with you Greg on Joe Thomas, but honestly Rob is sick of that conversation so until then?
Go Hawks
Cleveland aren’t trading him. Hue Jackson has made that clear.
when the hawks were running more then passing is when they were most successful, but we need that stud RB to do it. that’s what I hope they get back to.
“3. Jaguars — Leonard Fournette (RB, LSU)”
That would mean Ivory would be available on the cut market or for a low round pick, maybe even a future year one. I’d take Rawls, Ivory and Prosise as a three headed trio.
He just signed a 5yr deal in March. Dead money would be too high to make it worth cutting him before 2018, so it would have to be via trade. They also still have a ton of cap space so no real need to cut him either.
As much as I like his style, he will be 29 next season and with so many talented backs available on the cheap via the draft, I just can’t see it happening.
How crazy is the concentration of talent at specific positions in this draft? S, CB, EDGE, TE and RB all look as strong or stronger than the prospect groups in years.
For me its about getting the run game right. You can kill 2 birds with 1 stone here. Improving the run game controls the clock with keeps your defense of the field which helps keep your defense fresh. Now the question is does the Oline make the run game or does the runner. I believe the runner does. Weve seen many times a good running back run behind subpar Olines such as Marshawn Lynch, it happens all the time. I think we need the right runner. I like Rawls but i wonder about his injury history, can he stay healthy. Im not sure who the right running back his but that would be my vote.
It’s a combination of both. Marshawn Lynch was stopped plenty of times behind the line by defensive players who penetrated and stopped the run before he could even get started. The only running back I ever saw who was successful behind a poor offensive line was O.J Simpson.
The electric company was poor? They had Delamileure and McKenzie at the guards. I’d love to have two pro bowl guards on this line.
I don’t think there’s a player in this draft that helps the 2017 Seahawks more than Leonard Fournette
The only I wonder about Fournette is he played his season kind of like Clowney did when he was a junior. His first couple seasons didn’t turn out so well. We’ll see how it goes for Fournette.
Jonathan Allen.
But they’re both too unlikely to give much thought to…
Jonathan Allen is a total beast.
Not sure what his absolute best position is at the next level, but he can do it all.
The definition of a defensive weapon.
He is a 3-tech all the way, but Bama has lined him up all over.
He is the rare 3-tech who actually looks good lining up on the edge in base defenses. Last year Louisville & Miss. St. sometimes used Rankins & Chris Jones as EDGE players, and while they didn’t embarrass themselves, they weren’t difference-makers on the edge like Allen is.
A team like the Hawks could make him a full-time 3-Tech, an outside-in player, or just put him in as part of the rotation. He’s too good to worry about exact position. Anyways, he’s going top 5, no question. Sooo…
I would agree but it would take this years and probably next years first to get him. To rich for my blood. Anyone else remember Ditka’s blunder? I know there are players that teams have traded way up for that work out (Julio Jones) but running backs are two injury prone and short of a shelf life to take that risk… in my opinion.
Word Kenny! I’m with you and just know we’ll get Leanard”The Leopard” Fournette. He’s the perfect Running! Back for us! I truly believe if Pete and John want him, need him, they will get him! Can’t F’ing wait M8!
Go Hawks
There are a handful of guys in this draft that I think there is a special quality to them.
Jonathan Allen to me is the one player in this draft that helps us the most. This defense, while excellent — is missing the key piece in the interior. This is a defense that doesn’t allow points, but Allen virtually by himself is a player who can elevate this team from just not giving up points, to not giving up first downs either.
And it’s not because he’ll just register 15+ sacks. He’s the kind of talent who should be productive in his own right, but should vastly elevate every pass rusher on that DL with added opportunities for each. His ability to force the QB off the block into the rush of Avril or Bennett is game changing. His ability to force errant/early throws means getting off the field.
He’s a player who should really be capable of trimming 12+ plays per game from an opponent. With probably an extra 70 yards in field position earned in a game.
My take on the positions of need:
OT/OL – The OT combo’s used this season have been abysmal. The most impactful addition(s) the team can make are on the offensive line, either through high draft picks or FA’s. Odhiambo & Fant can be part of the competition next year, but I’m hoping for 2 legitimate additions (i.e. high picks pr FA’s). Ramczyk & Bolles are very interesting, and could be available. So could Cam Robinson, though I’m not as high on him. He’s still a better prospect on the field than Ifedi was a year ago however. Could the Hawks consider a guy like Forrest Lamp if his pre-draft workouts are impressive? He’s most likely a LG due his length, so that would probably mean Ifedi moves to RT, and Glow to RG (their college positions). Do the Hawks want that? Impossible to know.
I’ll keep coming back to Sebastian Vollmer being the ideal FA target. Excellent RT when healthy, who can likely be had on a “prove-it” deal. Also a freak athlete (3.47 TEF with great agility, height & length).
Safety – I’m going to live with blissful optimism (ignorance?), and assume Earl will be back. In such a strong safety class, the Hawks could take a safety in that case. A day 1 or 2 pick is only in play if Earl retires however, which just. can’t. happen…
RB – I much prefer a mid round (3-5) option than a high pick at RB. too much draft capital for a position the team is already decently stocked at. We can’t go back to being the team we were – Lynch was 1 in a million, and acquiring a potential talent like that (Fournette) makes little sense when you already have 2 good RB’s. The running game can still reach that level with a healthy Wilson, solid RB play, and a much improved OL. A 3rd RB is necessary because Rawls & Prosise are so injury-prone. As of now I’m liking Kareem Hunt in round 3-4.
Interior D-Line – I’m probably the biggest proponent on this blog for a true interior pass rusher, but even I admit the OT situation is more dire. If the Hawks were to go crazy and trade the farm, I’d much prefer Jonathan Allen to Fournette. I hope they spend a pick on the first 2 days on a DT who can penetrate. I wouldn’t be opposed to another outside-in player, especially with all the EDGE talent in this draft, but that would be more of a luxury.
Why not Odhiambo? He’s played well when he’s had a chance.
I mentioned Odhiambo – I hope he can develop and compete. However it needs to be with high picks or solid FA additions. Massive upgrade are needed on the OL. Simply taking a mid round OT or 2 and adding another Sowell/Webb is unacceptable.
I believe there is hope for Obi-Can he block thee? Star Wars reference ah yeah! Haven’t seen Rogue 1 though it shall be a great day indeed. Obi has potential definitely, I really believe our young offensive line won’t be so “Offensive” next year! Here’s to hoping M8!
Go Hawks
Tom Cable mentioned this week in his press conference that Odhiambo is a consideration at RT. He’s never played the right side though, but maybe a full offseason to prepare for that tips the scale. At this point last year, everyone was talking about how Glowinski was going to be the next RG, and Britt needed to be replaced at L0, and we needed to draft a center.
I think with the talented defensive players in this draft, that they will be selected more in the first two rounds. The sweet spot for offensive linemen will be in the third and fourth round. Morton should be available then, and a few other solid offensive linemen. I’m thinking that it would be better to boost the defense, or to get a game changer for offense in the first two rounds, then go offensive line in the mid rounds.
I’ve got a bit of a funny feeling about the Hawks at the moment, and not in a great way. There are a lot of egos, and a lot of unique personalities, in that tent. That they’ve managed to keep the lid on for so long is testament to the culture they’ve managed to build. But I just worry that things are starting to fray at the edges, they’re feeling the pressure and things are getting a bit intense. The GB meltdown, Sherman a few times this year, Earl thinking retirement… I’m probably drawing lines between dots that don’t even exist, but I’m just getting the feeling that it wouldn’t take all that much for the cards to start tumbling down.
And my very long winded point is that I wouldn’t feel super comfortable taking a big swing right now. A medium swing to jump up to 18/19 to get Bolles I could probably get around, but any more than that and I’d start getting pretty antsy.
Earl’s decision is going to be the swing IMO. If he packs his back, then either a replacement is going to have to be found (unless they really rate Terrell?) or the defence is going to have to be shifted. If he stays then you can go after offence, but if he leaves then I think a safety has to be the first priority.
To be honest I think without a doubt and I have been saying it forever. Seattle badly needs Oline help. Now if none of the difference makers are available to them in the first round what should they do and what else should they be looking for.
Other positions to look at.
-Pass Rushing Specialist and DT
-SAM LB
-Corner
-Safety
As Rob has stated before it doesn’t seem like there will be any DTs this year that will be able to provide that explosive rush from the interior. So maybe that is out.
For the SAM LB spot unless Cunningham and Davis are exceptional difference makers I don’t see them trying that either.
Now for Cornerback I think it’s safe to say Shead has played very well for the most part so it’s hard for me to judge him at least for as much as he gets thrown at. Jeremy Lane however seems to have regressed this season. So maybe we look at taking a corner especially maybe a smaller/twitchy nickel or slot cover guy.
The only reason why maybe they should take a safety is if indeed Earl retires. Honestly out of all of them there’s only 3 I would consider and that’s Obi, Baker and Luani. As you said Luani could possibly be had in the second so maybe you just wait and trade up later to get him if you are that sold on him.
All in all I would rather see Seattle get Bolles out of anyone. I do not think Seattle has a RB problem. We have Rawls and he is doing amazing with what is being given to him. If Prosise can get over this injury curse we have a dynamic 3rd down receiver. Only thing I would even consider for RB in this draft would be a round 2 or 3 flier on Nick Chubb. Seattle’s OL is what is ailing this team and honestly hey it’s at the point where hopefully it can’t get much worse get a difference maker there.
The one area this defense has a weakness is having someone who can consistently create pressure up the middle and collapse the pocket in the face of the QB. But there is no Rankins or Donald type prospect that I have really seen or heard of yet in this draft class.
Here here. Agree 100%, and I wouldn’t mind getting Chubb in the 3rd round, or even the 4th if we can trade back. Considering his checkered past, how far could he slip, Rob? I know we talked before about the likelihood the Seahawks could draft him given their previous statements about DV… I’d consider it a long-shot since they painted themselves into a corner there, but for minimal draft capital they may take the plunge.
I think that the Seattle Seahawks should draft Budda Baker and if that means moving up the board then so be it.
Budda Baker is not a player that we need per say, he’s just an exceptionally athletic and smart football player. It does not matter if Earl Thomas retires, although I would say BB would become a necessity if he does.
Budda Baker can play the slot. Heck Earl Thomas can play the slot and BB can play deep free. Coach Richard would have ultimate flexibility and have the personnel to execute the most exotic nickel and dime coverages.
Let me ask you guys – would you draft Tyrann Matheiu in the 1st round right now if you could? Even with a healthy Earl Thomas? Yeah me too. Budda Baker is Tyrann Mattheiu.
Yeah, hard not to love Budda Baker.
I don’t want him playing how he does Udub. Not at 185-190. Put him in a single high set with a 3 down box safety.
If ET retires, there’s 1 guy I’d trade up for. Ohio St’s Malik Hooker.
No way Earl leaves $10 million on the table and the opportunity to complete. No way, I can almost guarantee his Decision.
Go Hawks
Totally agree on Hooker. Ever since Rob posted those highlights, I’ve had him at the top of my safety list!
That said, with so many good ones in this draft, there should still be some serious value in Rds. 2-3.
Agree 100% on Hooker Vol. Absolutely love his instincts and play making ability. He should be a top 10 pick IMO.
If we go DB in RD #1 Baker and Hooker are great and will be stars at the next level but my favorite is Adoree Jackson. He is the most dynamic athlete I have seen in a while. I would love to see what Pete and Richards could do with that kid.
We’re Hooked then! =)
Are we sold that Ifedi isn’t going to play RT next season? I clearly remembering Pete say that he could end up there but they were going to go with him at RG as a rookie. Well, next year he’s not a rookie anymore and he did allude that he could easily end up there.
All we heard last off-season was that the Seahawks wanted/demanded a gigantic LG and an athletic and mobile RG. Saying anything to the contrary was not wanted or taken seriously based on previous Seahawks/Cable history. Then they go and do the opposite (put the mammoth at RG and the smaller/quicker player at LG). This means nothing is off the table anymore.
If Cable goes back to what he had done every year in Seattle previous to this current disaster, maybe the line shuffles again and our right side next year is Glowinski at RG and Ifedi at RT.
You and I might not like the idea of moving players around AGAIN but clearly the Seahawks are always shuffling guys around as much as we all want to pull our hair out of our head because of it. They don’t care what we thing. Obviously.
Britt is entrenched at Center and I really like Fant moving forward at LT. In this scenario, our biggest need is a LG. Could they sign a veteran to play next to Fant? After all, Fant is still going to be extremely young and inexperienced on the blind side.
They can’t go with a #1 pick, can they? Sure, they could use an upgrade on talent but they are so young. This year we have a total virgin at LG, a first year starter at LG, a first year Center, a rookie RG, and turnstiles at RT. It’s a total disaster.
Don’t get me wrong, moving forward I like Fant, Britt, Ifedi, and Glowinski. However, the line is still going to be extremely young next year in terms of NFL experience. I don’t think you can make it younger unless it’s a talented first-round stud at LG. This may be a scenario where they actually sign a LG and actually try to get somebody good (insert Webb joke). If they do get a decent veteran to play LG in this scenario, then that opens a lot of options with that first-round pick.
No matter what, a good offensive lineman is priority number one. We need a right tackle as it stands today and a guard if Ifedi plays RT.
I hate making typos and not being able to correct them. 🙂
I hear ya bobbyk! Me as well. Thanks for the write-up, much appreciated!
Go Hawks
I would love to see Ifedi moved to RT to take advantage of his length and to simplify blocking schemes for him. Guys with 36 inch arms were built to play OT not G. If the plan is to keep him at RG then using a 1st round pick on him seems like a poor decision.
Look at Laraven Clark whom had much worse technique in college than Ifedi but similar length. He start at tackle for the colts last week and looked great.
If Bolles is gone like Rob projects in this mock I think they need to move Ifedi to RT and draft a guy like Dorian Johnson, Morton or Lamp in Rds 2-3 to compete for the LG spot with Rees and move Glow back to his more natural position at RG.
With Fant and Ifedi you would have the two most athletic tackles in the NFL as a duo.
Agree with this plan wholeheartedly. We are just fighting upstream so hard to find a good tackle in this class. Such a need/reach. Yay, we got Bolles who might be okay and is almost ready to collect Social Security as a rookie! Or we got the talented but lazy Cam Robinson! If they are good enough to solve our problems as a rookie, they’ll be gone by 15. Instead, we could get the best OG in the draft late in the 1st, kick Ifedi out to T, and be much better at two positions on the OL.
I can’t for the life of me figure out why they have Ifedi playing on his toes.
You instantly give up leverage and will absorb all the contact. Not only that, it means his he’ll show his hands too quick. Bang! Snap lost.
I accept that Fournette is a gẻnerational talent. Lets look at other recent high profile RBs-Elliot looks brilliant behind the Cowboys O-line…others likely would as well. Gurley looks ordinary behind the Rams woeful crew. Anyone care to compare and contrast-with any ideas of your own thrown in? How good is the LSU line LF ran behind? I dont get to see all that much college ball. Thế Fournette reveries are sexy as all get out, but with Rawls and CJ, dont we just need a durable but capable banger? Where is the highest value-to-draft capital ratio to be found?
As to addressing our O-line, even if we keep the band (or, most of it, anyway) together, it will still be a young line by O-line standards, and a bit green yet. How should we best balance continuity, êxperience and talent to make the greatest step forward next year? Odhiambo should be in the mix with Fant as well. FA? I agree Webb was a misfire. Sowell? We got about what we paid for. The draft? If the Boles isnt thêre, or the stretch too costly-what then? I do lean towards keeping the interior threesome together if possible (that contiuity factor). Is a rookie RT the ănswer? A FA? Odhi?
As to D-line, I still like the Nnadi scenario in the 2nd, and hold out hope for Q-Jeff to play a significant role. And a move like Luani. I know I have tons of questons and no ănswers, but hey-its all good! Go Hawks!
I’d go all in on fournett rob is right we need someone the defense fears and right now we do not have that the defense does not fear Baldwin or Graham because they are not heavily targeted and have been somewhat inconsistent. The defense does not fear wilsons due to being able to get to him with pressure and him not being able to run effectively this year. So we need someone to put that fear in the defense that allows the rest of the weapons to be more effective. Fournett is that guy him and Russ can grow together and make each other more effective.
Fournette isn’t going to make our o line run block any better. Rawls was getting tackled in the backfield all game, prime Lynch wouldn’t make a difference right now.
I don’t think we will make any kind of move up.
I would like more early second round picks. There is going to be a huge pocket of talent in the top half of the second. I could see a Jarran Reed type tradeup again this year.
I think the priority need is to repair the run game. it is at the core of Pete’s philosophy. The team has shown flashes of a beautiful future in the Philadelphia game. Find a right tackle who can run block and survive during pass protection, either through the draft, or free agency or Odhiambo. Id be happy with a Giacomini level talent. Seattle found him on the Packer practice squad. Then draft a bigger back who runs well between the tackles. Someone who could force an eight man box on third and three or less. Someone who can pound when Seattle has a 10 point lead in the fourth quarter. Let Rawls and Prosise spread, stretch, and threaten the defense horizontally and verically and bring in the big back to carry home the lead.
I think so much of the frustrating fits and starts has been theie necessary reliance on the pass when the team wasn’t built exclusively to throw. The offense cannot impose it’s will without being able to run consistently. I don’t think they are far away.
Always add to the oline and dline for competition as always, get a hedge for earl thomas just in case he is serious about leaving, depth at LB for strong side, interior pass rusher’s just imagine what out defense would look like if we had 2 of those guys!, no matter how physical a back is, he ain’t gonna go nowhere if he has nowhere to run!, a good physical talented oline is more dangerous than a physical RB,
What ever happened to Evan Engram? Is he staying in school or did Rob sour on him?
He’s a senior so he’s coming out.
Don’t know that there is a souring. It’s just a pretty loaded TE class (Howard/Butt) at the top. And it’s deep at the top at DL/CB/S so the chances are the first TE taken won’t come off the board until 45-55 range.
Engram probably leaves the board in the 3rd round.
I haven’t seen Cam Sutton in the top 40 picks on many mock drafts. This blog (and myself) was very high on him last year. To me he always played a bit like the Honey Badger. Dudes a playmaker. Can he make a similar move to safety like him? If we have 2 picks in the second round he may be a great option if there is a run on safeties in the first round.
I really like Sutton as well and someone will get a steal in the 2nd or 3rd round with him. He kind of gets forgotten about because there is so much DB talent in this draft.
He’s been forgotten largely because he broke his ankle in September and has barely played this year and when he has, he’s been rusty and trying to get into game shape.
He’s still there lurking.
A currently ranked mid-round CB I have my eye on is –CB-Rasul Douglas, W. Virginia, 6-12/208, 33.3%-opponent passer rating against, = #1 in FBS,
2016: 12 games: 62-tkls, 45-solo, 8-INT (1 for TD), 3-TFL, 1-Sack, 7-PBU, 1-FF
A bit of a late bloomer, if he demonstrates good spark #’s, he could be a viable CB or maybe he could move to Safety??
Interesting and mind provoking questions Rob, great work (as always…)
The running game and the lack of respects it gets is an issue that poses more questions then answers:
1. Rawls and C.J. do not look like the problem (when healthy). Do we really need to draft injury insurance that high? (I.E. – the difference between 2016 Gurly and 2016 Elliott is the OL)
2. If the OL is a big part of the problem, how much would a rookie late 1st round pick actually help during the 2017 season? (as much as the hit or miss Ifedi?) If a rookie offensive lineman can’t help immediately, why do we need to draft him that high?
3. If 1st year players on the OL are always an issue, wouldn’t most of it be solved next year with Ifedi, Glow and Fant playing their 2nd year together?
4. The top 5 DTs in the NFL cost 10M or more. There is only 1 RT in the NFL that costs more the 6.75M. It is cheaper to get top of the line RT than DT and leaves cap space for other needs.
Just to add to your point about Gurley and Elliot, Gurley’s regressed in a big way this year and a huge amount of that blame has to go on the O-Line. They’ve let him take so much damage that it’s affected his confidence and vision. Hard to start thinking about the second level when you know it’s odds on that you’re going to have someone coming free at you behind the line. If the Hawks were to trade up to grab Fournette, I’m not sure you can guarantee he’s a huge difference maker behind this line – even factoring in improvement from all the rookies.
I think the pick has to be either a tackle, a true FS if Earl retires, or a defensive player who can cause a serious ruckus. All that said, I’d probably like to see a trade down. It’s a good draft, time to do some stockpiling.
1. Agreed. R1 is too early for an RB when you have 2 quality RB’s on rookie contracts already.
2. Ifedi was extremely raw coming out of college. Several rookie OL’s have been solid or great this season: Conklin, Decker, Tunsil, Stanley, Thuney, Whitehair, Kelly.
There are 3 OL’s projected to go early in this draft that are way more technically proficient than Ifedi IMO (Ramczyk, Bolles & Lamp). If the Hawks go OL early, they need a much more NFL ready plug-and-play starter than what Ifedi was.
3. Can’t just wave the magic wand and hope these guys become great players, which is what we need. We need one-two more OL’s who can play at Britt’s level (or at least Glow’s), in order for the performance to spike massively. That’s what needed, massive improvement up front.
4. The Hawks will likely target short term veteran contracts like Calais Campbell. Sebastian Vollmer is the ideal RT target – great player & freak athlete, will come at a discount.
Yeah, a bell cow difference maker at RB would be nice. But poor run blocking is a bigger issue in our lack of a running game. I think you have to address the OL issue before RB unless something completely unexpected happens.
Also agree about the plug in and play idea; although that is obviously a difficult task when it comes to the OL. It might require a trade up to make it happen, but as Rob said, with no 4th or 5th round pick moving up it might be a tough sell. Our line has been in such shambles this year, I think another “high ceiling/low-floor” draft pick/prospect will likely put us in the same position we are in this year. It would be nice to not have to be in panic mode about both tackle positions like we have been for most of this season.
Like the idea of Vollmer but he’s been so banged up the last few years. If he came here it would have to be on a deal where we could cut ties to him with minimal obligation.
I hate to say it — but the Seahawks are not going to suddenly have fantastic run blocking with this rookie class or simply filling in a journeyman right tackle. One of the reasons I think they might need a truly outstanding RB is to mask some of those issues, as they did with Lynch.
Seattle’s OL is young and needs time and consistency together. In 2-3 years they might be really effective. But if you want to get the running game going in 2017 — RB might be the way to do it.
I completely agree that a journeyman tackle won’t automatically lead to a better run game. Webb and Sowell are two examples of this. I just think they need to stop the bleeding somehow. If Ifedi can make the move to RT next year (and that seems like a big if at this point) and Odiambo develops on a solid path than they certainly have a decent corps for the line. But we saw the team cut Eric Winston in favor of Britt, and we cut Jahri Evans in favor of Ifedi. Both Winston and Evans went on to have better seasons than either Britt or Ifedi. Of course, it’s a two sided coin as both Britt and Ifedi gained a year of valuable experience.
There just seems to be a disconnect on how to make the line better. Gilliam not taking a step forward this year had such a negative effect on the line this year. I don’t want to put all our eggs in the basket of Fant and Ifedi being our top 2 tackles next year. I like the idea of adding someone in FA (the journeyman) if possible and pursuing a trade up for a guy like Bolles if he falls far enough.
“Panic Mode.” – Exactly. The offense shouldn’t have to play through the same hurdles & obstacles it did this year.
Vollmer’s injury history & age is precisely why he could be had for a discounted, short-term prove-it deal. The good thing is he’s consistently played well when on the field. If his health checks out in the off-season, his steadying veteran presence would be worth a small gamble.
Vollmer is 33 and gets injured. I’ll pass on that one.
That’s why an OT who’s been great for years could be had for a cheap short-term contract.
Downside is he gets hurt, but we can cut him after 1 year.
Upside is a steadying veteran presence, a massive upgrade for a year on what we had at RT this season.
Downside is he gets hurt and there’s a blackhole at RT. Or, aged 33, he isn’t any good.
I don’t think it’s injury insurance they need at RB to be fair. I don’t think teams fear our running game. I don’t think they’re gameplanning against it. And Rawls and Prosise, for all their qualities, are not getting teams to stack eight in the box when their healthy — which is all too infrequently.
Increasingly I think this team, for the way it’s built, needs a superstar RB.
Adjust the way it’s built then – there’s so many ways to skin a cat on offense. Teams don’t fear our running game because the blocking is terrible. Rawls finished with -10 yards before first contact in the Rams game for crying out loud.
The teams identity doesn’t need to change, but the Hawks simply don’t have the resources to acquire a superstar RB without largely sacrificing positions of greater need.
Adding functional linemen would change the way this team is built. Even with mediocre blocking in the second half of last season, the running game was awesome with Rawls leading the way.
If the talent of the offensive line was even league-average, the combo of Tom Cable, a healthy Russell Wilson and a stable of solid RB’s would make the running game dominant.
You can’t just magic up a great run blocking O-line though. It’s going to take time. This is a young group — Fant, Glow, Ifedi — all starting for the first time. It’s Britt’s first year at center and there’s a game of musical chairs at RT. There’s absolutely no reason anyone should expect that situation to provide a dominant run game. And FWIW — Aaron Donald vs that group, it isn’t a surprise they didn’t run well vs LA. In 2-3 years this OL might be dominant. They need the time though.
I disagree wholeheartedly that they don’t have the resources. Atlanta moved up quite simply. Other teams have moved in 2016. You can do it. You just have to want to do it and find a trade partner.
Top three running teams in the league all have good OL play but guess what — Shady McCoy, Zekey Elliott, Demarco Murray & Derrick Henry. It’s a two way street. And I want to believe in Rawls — but he needs to play more than 6-7 games a year.
Plus it doesn’t even have to be a trade up. They might decide D’Onta Foreman is special.
That’s where I’m at right now. My mind changes all the time though. Im a fickle bastard.
Other than Fournette and Cook, is Cook really the answer? I’m not seeing that star or special RB in the 1st round. Foreman would be the other and he quite possibly could be. Agree on him. He’s one of my favorite prospects overall.
I didn’t say a great line, I said league-average. It can be done with upgrades. Britt, Glow and Ifedi are locked in. The other two positions are filled by league-worst level starters.
Draft an NFL ready player like your guy Bolles, and spend a day 2 pick on a guard and/or sign a veteran OL for a short-term mid-range contract.. Vollmer is not a journeyman, he’s talented – and can be had for a discount. Take the 2 worst positions on the roster and make them solid, and this OL is league average.
It makes no sense to let the same group grow together over 2-3 years when it’s been this awful this season. Saying “they didn’t run well.” vs LA is the understatement of the year. So is calling the OL play “poor.” There is no chance in hell that Glow, Ifedi and especially Fant all develop to the point where this line could be considered dominant in 2-3 years. You “can’t just magic up” the development of players who’ve shown little effectiveness, especially a LT essentially plucked off the street.
You missed my point on the lack of resources. Of course the Hawks could theoretically put together a package that someone would accept. The result of such a trade would be a lack of resources – no draft capital to get an impact blocker and/or interior rusher (positions of much greater need).
We saw how a great RB looks with terrible blocking in the first half of last season. Lynch averaged what, 3.8 ypc? Even if Fourette is all he’s cracked up to be, he would similarly struggle behind an OL that gets dominated or plain beaten at 4/5 positions.
Bolles won’t be there unfortunately. Then what?
I have a hard time buying the idea that a league average O-line will a.) be achieved by adding more inexperience or b.) will be the catalyst to a dominant running game.
“There is no chance in hell that Glow, Ifedi and especially Fant all develop to the point where this line could be considered dominant in 2-3 years.”
So you are saying that a first rounder in the 95th percentile physichal and athletic profile of lineman in the entire NFL (Ifedi) and a guy in the 97th percentile SPARQ of all OT in the NFL (Fant) have no shot at developing into dominant players down the road? You do realize that this is their ROOKIE season, that Fant has played only one year of football since HS, and that they are playing next to guys all new at their positions? This is a rebuild on the OL, and rebuilds take time.
Here’s the source on SLA (size, length, athleticism) if you want to check it out:
http://theyoungscout.wixsite.com/fantasyfootball/slaog
Where the heck do you want us to pull these magical, non-existent, dominant lineman from then? You say spend the Rd. 1 and a day 2 pick on OL. Guess what, they just did exactly that last draft. (Ifedi, Odhiambo) There’s no guarantee any college OL is NFL ready these days. (#2 overall pick two years ago Greg Robinson comes to mind) It’s a whole new level and has been discussed in depth in many articles by current and former NFL coaches (not just by Rob).
I understand you may be frustrated with the growing pains of our OL and the poor performance this year, but these guys do not grow on trees (and even if they did, they would take time to ripen, so to speak…) So please don’t talk as if the Hawks could easily do something more to somehow quick-fix the issue and are simply are avoiding it for no good reason. They have spent a lot of draft capital on it already and will likely continue to do so, and the options on the free agent market are less than appealing.
(I’ll admit I don’t know much about Vollmer, but paying to put a 33 year old in our ultra-physical system does not sound like the best of ideas, at least off the bat)
I think that taking arguably the worst healthy O-Line in the league, and letting them develop together for 2-3 years is a huge risk. Realistic potential encompasses a lot more than just athleticism.
I hope Ifedi can tap into his physical potential, despite not showing any consistency on the college or NFL level, and his performance hasn’t been inspiring this year. Glow is still a below average guard, but like Ifedi, I hope he can become a solid starter with more experience. It’s not outside the realm of possibility that they can become dominant one day, but the evidence they’ve put on tape makes it extremely unlikely.
With Fant, I have very little hope that he can become a competent player. He’s just been so bad this year, and he’s so inexperienced.
There’s a more realistic and efficient path to re-building a strong offense. It simply cannot be done with the quality of play we’ve had from the O-Line this season. I don’t bring up Vollmer as a guy that locks down a position – he’s a player that could be brought in cheaply to compete. Draft picks aren’t certainties, but the right premium picks offer a great chance at selecting a solid player.
Right now we have 2 of the worst starting OT’s in the league. The other 3 starters are set in stone. Upgrading awfulness to even average play at the tackle position would do wonders for this line. There’s a chance Ramczyk and/or Bolles could fall to the Hawks. Ramczyk isn’t testing due to injury, Bolles is a 25 year-old rookie, and both are 1 year FBS players.
Ideally, a combination of high draft pick(s), cheap veteran FA and Odhiambo/Fant could all compete. And maybe 2 of that group could provide substantial upgrades on the brutal OT play we’ve dealt with all season.
High draft picks… cheap veteran FA… so what they did a year ago, basically?
Absolutely. More competition is obviously needed though, but not exactly like they did last year.
Unfortunately, the FA’s we signed were career journeyman who have never been NFL quality starters. That description doesn’t apply to a guy like Vollmer, and he’s just one example of a player who stands out as low risk/high-reward.
We’ve talked in the past how cheap veteran OL’s have been available on the market before (i.e. Evan Mathis). Maybe the Hawks can take a swing and hit on one for a short-term solution.
Also, the rookies we drafted were extremely raw (Ifedi) and injured (Odi). NFL readiness should be a priority for high O-Line draft picks this year. There are plenty of examples just this season of rookie OL’s who have played solid or better:
Tunsil, Conklin, Stanley, Decker, Thuney, Whitehair, Kelly. Obviously some of those talents will go too early for Seattle, but there will be options.
Bolles is a 25 year old rookie, Ramczyk is injured and not testing this spring. Both are 1-year FBS players. Maybe one will fall? It’s possible. Forrest Lamp looks as plug-and play as they get, probably at LG though. I’m hoping other OL’s stand out to me when I get around to watching their tape and reviewing their athletic testing as well.
Rob, you are usually right about those things but…
Isn’t it possible, even likely, that after setting the league on fire in the 2nd half of last year, the Seahawks passing game are getting more respect and teams are not stacking the box because they fear that potentially explosive passing game? Could the cause be more about the dangerous passing game than it is the poor running game?
As for the current OL – They may not turn into a stellar run blocking unit next year but the biggest just in quality of play happen during the transfer from 1st. to 2nd year. A fully dedicated off season for a young player the knows what is expected of him should improve this whole unit. They SHOULD be better next year. Would that be enough to spark the running game, i do not know. Would just one extra rookie player be enough???
Here’s are my concerns for selling the farm for LF. (1) He’s been banged up a bit this year, so perhaps you leverage the future of the team for a guys that could turn out be less than sturdy. Though I get that this was seemingly a new things b/c he didn’t miss any games the prior two years; (2) looking at games where the LSU OL got man-handled this year (aka vs Alabama) he did nothing. Looking back to 2014 & 2015 there are games where he also didn’t produce. Those games are often against other big-time SEC programs. It could be that they just have LSU’s/LF’s number, maybe not; Lastly (3) the Hawks run blocking has been atrocious for most of the year. So we could end up giving up lots of draft capital for a player than doesn’t end up fixing our primary offensive identity. I think someone above pointed out a key difference between LA and DAL… the OL play. Don’t get me wrong, Zeke is a great player. But that OL would make even a decent RB look like a monster. The Hawks don’t have that luxury. Unless they find a way to fix the OL in FA I just feel like the trade up for LF ends up being wasted.
Something I just thought about, and somewhat in contrast to the post I made above, we’re going to be in a New England-esque position for at least the next couple of seasons barring some unforseen weirdness. They’ve won their last eight (!) division titles in a row because of a quarterback, good coaching, and a truly terrible division. The Seahawks have got the first two, and the division suddenly looks rubbish. The Rams are dreadful and mortgaged their future for an awful QB, the Cards are about to go off a cliff, and the Niners are a dumpster fire in the extreme.
The Hawks should be able to make the playoffs almost every year, which to me negates the need to go ‘all in’ chasing a superstar. Just keep adding talent and we’re going to be in the conversation for a while to come.
Interesting point, that just keep adding talent part-always a prudent way to proceed! Always need to keep the pipeline packed with up-and-comers so that next-man-up can continue to be viable. We may still need to continue with upgrades á we ảe able, as we have to deal with the Cowboys etc once get beyond our division championship each year. Still and yet, we havent got many holes to fill in the near term.
Just for what it’s worth, I just heard on the radio that Royce Freeman has decided to stay in school another year. He was looking like a viable option for us (on a long list), and he could be a true top pick next year and out of our reach.
Why an RB would stay in school another year when they have such a short shelf life anyways is a surprising decision. If he is doing it to complete a degree then good for him love the decision. If he is doing it to improve draft stock then poor decision IMO.
Next years class is loaded too. But, I do think he’s trying to improve his stock.
LSU’s Derrius Guide
Michigan St’s LJ Scott
Arkansas Rawleigh Williams III
Florida’s Jordan Scarlett
Penn St’s Saquon Barkley
Auburn’s duo of Kam Pettway & Kerryion Johnson
USC’s Ronald Jones
Oregon’s Royce Freeman
Georgia’s Nick Chubb
Iowa’s Akrum Wadley
‘Bama’s Damien Harris & Bo Scarbrough
Arizona St’s Kallen Ballage
Ohio St’s Mike Weber
*Guice
Texas Chris Warren III
UCLA’s Soso Jamambo
Can you imagine KJ, Wag & Cunningham manning the middle of the defense? Whatever passes the D-line will be picked up pronto. That acquisition, with a little help up front, would help cement their legacy as one of the GOAT.
Agreed I just think there are much bigger needs on the OL and DL and quality starting caliber Lbs can be found in the mid rounds.
I think about Jatavius Brown out of Akron last year a guy whom I loved coming out last year was picked up by the Chargers in Rd #5 and would have been ideal compliment to Wags and KJ.
I think we all loved Brown, it’s nice to see him make a strong transition to the NFL. Those small school guys are so hard forecast, thought. I was on the Tre McBride hype train as much as anyone 2 years ago 🙁
Agree completely one of my favourite part of the draft is picking 5-10 guys I really like each year and then following their careers to see how they do regardless of team they are drafted by. After all the Seahawks cant draft everybody.
I think LB is one position that has historical found a large # of late round / udfa starters.
As long as you are not looking for a pass rushing LB then you basically need to go Rd #1 or get really lucky.
A couple of currently ranked mid-round LB’s with decent stats & rush abilities I’m following are:
ILB-Marquel Lee, Wake Forest, 6-3/240—Rd-4/5 (Nice size, speed=?)
2016: 98-tkls, 60 solo, 19-TFL, 7.5-Sacks, 4-QBH, 3-FF.
2015: 71-tkls, 37 solo, 10-TFL, 3.0-Sacks, 1-PBU, 1-QBH
2014: 101-tkls, 39 solo, 12-TFL, 4.0-Sacks, 1-PBU, 1-QBH, 1-FF
NOTE: 270+-TKLS, 136-SOLO, –*41-TFL, 12.5-SACKS*–, 6-QBH, 2-PBU, 4-FF for his career. AND with 3-years of consistent #’s.
OLB-Ejuan Price, Pittsburg, 6-0/255—Rd-5 (A bit short, but a very busy guy)
2016: 42-tkls, 31-solo, 21-TFL, 12.0-Sacks, 13-QBH, 3-FF, 1-BK.
2015: 48-tkls, 30-solo, 19.5-TFL, 11.5-Sacks, 1-PBU, 9-QBH, 1-FF, 1-BK, 1-FR-(TD)
Last 2 years: 90-tkls, 60-solo, *40.5-TFL, 23.5-Sacks, 22-QBH* , 1-PBU, 4-FF, 2-BK, 1-FR-(TD)
I’d think the Seahawks could do worse than to pick one of these guys in RD 3/4/5, if they stay anywhere close to their current rankings.
Given all the recent discussion of a trade up for Fournette I did as much research as I could find and watch tape from the last couple of years.
Count me off the Fournette bandwagon. In fact I do not think he will have the best NFL career out of the Rbs in this draft class. I think Dalvin Cook will.
Fournette is clearly the most dominant physical specimen in this years draft class and the comps to AP are legit physically. He is an absolute beast and has break away speed to boot.
My 3 concerns are as followed.
#1 He has not stayed healthy even in college. This is a huge red flag for me given the way he runs. None of his injuries have been serious but the ankle has been a lingering issue and if you cannot stay in the feild in college why would you suddenly get durable in the NFL.
#2 I don’t see him as having great vision. I think he has been so physically dominant that he has not needed great vision and it shows.
#3 He is not a complete 3 down back. Certainly not anywhere near the level of Zeke Elliot. He is average as both a blocker and limited as a receiver.
My take is that he is the most freakish athletic RB prospect of this generation but I would certainly not trade up to get him.
I tend to agree, though that might be an overly critical view. I think the huge trade-ups almost never work out well, and that even a guy like Jon Allen wouldn’t be worth it.
The Julio Jones trade is the obvious outlier, but it helps that the Browns butchered the picks they received in return.
I am not saying he is not a great talent. I just think of AP and all the time missed from injury and what have the Vikings won with him. I am sure the Vikings fans have a love hate relationship when they think about him. I think Fournette could be similar. There is no denying the athletic ability or talent.
Fournette needs to go to a team with a FB that pounds the ball.
We’re seeing this with Gurley. He fits best in that style of offense, but Goff is best in a spread or out of the shotgun.
The past doesn’t matter though. It’s about who you’re trading up for in 2017 and whether they’re worth it. Nobody in this class is going to be affected by previous busts. The Julio Jones trade worked because Julio Jones is good. The Brady Quinn trade didn’t work because Brady Quinn wasn’t good.
The past matters if it helps predict the future, and in the large majority of cases, big trades-up in the first round haven’t proven to be worth it.
The success of the trade depends on more than just the success of the player that a team trades up for. Huge resources are sacrificed to do so. Even Atlanta struggled for a few years after acquiring Jones, as they didn’t have the draft capital to fill out the roster at other positions.
The past never matters in instances like this. It’s the thing that frustrates me the most about the draft — the constant referring back to unrelated scenarios. ‘This guy was a bust at this position, so I’d never take a player in that round’. ‘This trade was a bust so therefore I never consider the possibility of moving up’.
The Falcons did not struggle because of the outlay on Julio Jones. That is simply not true. Are you seriously telling me they would’ve been so much better had they owned the pick Cleveland spent on Brandon Weeden? Come on. We know why they struggled and it had nothing to do with that. It had all to do with Mike Smith’s phoney tough guy approach and the non-factor running game when Michael Turner got old. As soon as they changed coaches they became relevant again.
A potential trade up needs to be judged on the player you’re moving up for. Julio trade made sense because he’s really good. The Jared Goff trade, IMO, didn’t because I don’t think he’s any better than Brock Osweiler was in college. I do not think there’d be much risk at all in trading up for Jonathan Allen or Leonard Fournette. I think it’d be a slam dunk. Doesn’t mean they’ll do it, but no need to say they can’t or shouldn’t based on what’s happened in the past.
The Julio Jones trade was a no brainer. He’s a rare, rare talent.
An absolute no-brainer. I remember at the time thinking the same. Incredible specimen.
Personally I think Fournette has a chance to be something similar.
If you’ve read my comments then you’ll see I’ve never said anything like, ‘This guy was a bust at this position, so I’d never take a player in that round’. ‘This trade was a bust so therefore I never consider the possibility of moving up’. My views our considerably more well-thought out than that.
The Julio trade paid off because Julio turned into a superstar, but it’s the exception, not the norm. So many more trades haven’t worked out. Allen & Fournette have the potential to be all-pro’s but maybe they won’t be.
However my main objection to a trade-up of that magnitude is the cost to move up, based on Seattle’s CURRENT situation, not historical instances.. The cost of the ATL trade was two 1sts, one 2nd, and two 4ths. That was a cheap price for ATL, and one that would be tough to replicate in a similar trade. Even so, it’s a steep package.
The package the Hawks would have to put together would mean the OL and DT upgrades aren’t coming, at least not in the near future. I don’t think Fournette would produce at a high level behind the pylons blocking for him, and now you have two good young RB’s who’s value is significantly under-utilized.
The thing that frustrates me the most is narrow-mindedness, not applying the big picture to the situation – in this instance: opportunity cost, risk in putting most of your chips in the pot, and current roster composition.
PC and JS understand the importance of draft capital better than anyone, which is why they’re always trying to acquire more picks. Nothing is a sure thing, not even Julio Jones, Jon Allen & Leonard Fournette.
But JT, you make it sound like it’s a coincidence that Julio turned into a superstar. That it was a lucky fluke. I’ll simply state again — Julio trade was good because Julio is/was good. Simple as that. You judge each potential trade on the merits based on the player in question. Not based on unrelated players who were busts or successes in the past.
It’s not true they can’t upgrade the OL if they trade up. They would have two third round picks and money in free agency.
Lynch produced behind a poor OL for years.
You say narrow-mindedness frustrates you. I hate to be this blunt — but all I’m reading is narrow-mindedness. You’ve decided any trade up is bad and that’s that. I don’t think they definitely should do it — but I’m open to the idea.
Not meaning to intrude on your discussions, but this argument reminds me of sunk costs in economics. For example, say I paid $2,000 for a used car 2 years ago. Now, that car needs $500 in repairs. When deciding if I should spend money and repair it or buy a new car, I should not take the original $2,000 price into account. I’ve already spent that money and it has no effect on whether or not I should spend the $500 to repair the car. I would need to look at the situation as it stands today and decide if I would get the commensurate value out of my current car after repairs or if I should just purchase a new one.
This relates to the draft because we shouldn’t be looking at other trades/teams and trying to fit them into Seattle’s situation. Each trade scenario requires cost/benefit analysis *at that point in time*. Is this player worth trading 2 first round picks? The value changes for each team and likely each scenario, so looking into the past may give us some helpful information, but it shouldn’t really have an effect on our decision.
Just my random thoughts…
Rob I want to say that I respect your views even when I disagree with them.
You’re mis-interpreting my position. Again, my focus is on the big picture regarding the current Hawks situation, not on the quality of the player that could be traded-up to acquire. I love Julio, and Fournette could be just as dominant.
I’m open to a trade-up as well – in the right situation for the right player – but not an RB in the Hawks’ current situation. I’ll clarify my points:
Roster composition – By Far the most important factor. We already have 2 good RB’s on rookie contracts. Can’t get the value out of them that they can provide without snaps.
More importantly, the Hawks have 2 needs that are far more glaring than RB – OT & interior DL penetration. It makes it much more difficult to address those weaknesses without the draft capital we’d give up.
Opportunity cost – The draft capital given up would be substantial. Many premium picks would be sacrificed to trade up into the top 10.
Risk – Fournette has ridiculous upside, but no player is a sure thing, especially not running behind this line.
Hey Logan Lynch – I agree. The past trades make me worry about the opportunity cost and risk of the trade, but my real issue is with the current roster composition of the Hawks.
Agree with JT here. Just remembered an article I had read a while ago that summed up how I feel: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/julio-jones-goes-down-the-falcons-are-out/
Also, from the article:
“That trade ended up resolving itself to be a three-way deal where the Falcons got Julio Jones, the Chiefs got Justin Houston, and the Browns got a bunch of rocks: Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic, and Brandon Weeden.”
The Chiefs got “Justin Houston” from one of the picks from this trade.
How’s this for a splash?
The Jets picked up Sheldon Richardson’s option at around $8MM. We give ’em a 2nd rounder for that year’s worth of interior pass rush and either re-sign him or get a 3rd-4th rounder compensatory if not. Sorta like the Chandler Jones trade from the Pats.
Thoughts anyone?
Third rounder should do it.
Money + off field issues + poor production this year + it’s the Jets we’re talking about here = very little leverage for more than a 3rd.
I’d trade a 3rd. Not a 2nd. Too many starter quality players in the 55-70 overall range.
You’re probably right. I would do it for a 3rd rounder for sure, especially since it’s going to be a late third rounder.
The Pats made a small killing on that deal, but are desperately missing Jones’ pass rush. The Cardinals are out of a pick and an offensive lineman, are going to miss the playoffs, and have to address Jones’s FA status after this year.
I would be afraid that any deal for Richardson would not be much of a net positive for us. We’d have to give up one or two picks in a nice draft class, and then likely have to pay through the nose to keep him after 2017. And his arrest last year still looks bad.
I think the Jets and Cowboys try to work out a deal that swaps Romo for Richardson, although both teams are already against the cap so it might take some accounting magic to make it happen.
Count me in on the side to bolster the defense. For years I’ve watched a constantly shuffling oline and can not see how anyone in the late first is going to be a better solution then continuity for a change. Perhaps ifedi to RT but past that id like to see the carousel stop for an off season. If the Oline is getting beat off blocks this year then having say 2/5’s shuffle around yet again for the first half isn’t going to help. With that I’m not opposed to draft picks or experiments as that virtually all the spots could be upgraded just not easily at the tail end of the first.
I do think rb with a lot of pass catching chops is someone to consider. I loved prosise’s skills but the injuries concern me. As for tone setting RB? I have no idea. I like cook more then Fournette but I don’t think he “sets a tone.”. In fact I’m not sure who does. I’ll check out Williams from byu but I’ve watched TONS of draft breakdown and can honestly say not one back jumps out at me.
Not mentioned yet here is WR. Even late round picks. I get that all of Kearse’s troubles may not be on him but a good WR/QB is symbiotic in helping each other out. Right now that combo is rubbish. Im not “over,” prich by lets all be honest he’s slowly becoming a JAG. I wonder what Ross would be like here with a little desean Jackson, a pinch of tate, and a bit of Baldwin smarts to help out his QB. I wonder if a tighter passing game would do the reverse and open up the running game?
I think Rawls and Prosise are a winning combo of RB’s, it’s too bad we can’t get them the ball more as it is. I don’t see RB as a need worthy of a high draft pick. I think Rawls is fantastic: vision, toughness, speed, quickness, nasty, and shimmy — is he not the real deal? — and we’ve seen their vision for Prosise work well too, so far. The real problem with the running game is the blocking; Rawls is getting smacked in the backfield consistently. We got spoiled watching Marshawn turn two-yard losses into two-yard gains when this used to happen (behind a better line), but we can’t expect a mere mortal, even someone like Fournette, to patch that deficiency for us. We have to get our RB’s at least back to the line of scrimmage before we judge how effective they are. Just look at Todd Gurley, a consensus All-World talent…
For that reason, obviously, we have to keep investing in this line. I’ve been a big, big fan of your work profiling the athletic, explosive players the Seahawks seem to be targeting at OL, but I wonder if something is missing with their approach. There is something to be said for a guy who just flat out finds a way to win at the point of attack, regardless of his TEF score. We’ve seen our hyper-athletic and strong linemen struggle to execute simple blocks this year. Yes, there’s a learning curve and they’re young, but we all assume that Tom Cable is a coaching savant who should be able to implement this scheme with the raw tools available, and frankly, Marshawn Lynch smoothed over the fact that it hasn’t been pretty, really, ever under Cable (and I’m not even talking about pass-pro yet). Yes, we’ve usually enjoyed a top rushing offense, but to your point advocating for a RB, how many without Marshawn? I really think much of his genius was eliminating negative yards. I’ve also heard some rumors from other coaches that Cable’s zone-blocking scheme is quite rudimentary/not as intricate as other pro schemes (perhaps that was mentioned on your blog? Unsure, but seemed like a credible source). All this is a long way of saying maybe it’s time to target guys who have the technical skill (rare these days, I know) and the grit and moxy to make blocks up front even without having necessarily the most explosive athletic profile. I still have confidence in Cable, but at this point I can’t say that it’s justified. Resources have been invested — something is wrong if we don’t start to see consistent results. Point being, I think we are actually good at RB.
I also think we should not fight the board here; if interior DL, S, and CB are major strengths of this draft, in my opinion we could use depth or potentially starters at all those positions. Earl’s comments have me spooked… Melifonwu, Baker and Luani all seem like dynamic players we might be able to get on the field regardless, either as a nickel (Baker) or a hybrid S/LB (Melifonwu, Luani?) until the time comes when we need to replace Earl or Kam, or both. Even if Earl stays for a year or two, his commitment to becoming a HoF player of substantial legacy does not seem to be high on his priority list, and we all know Kam may not have the longest career. He’s been missing substantial time already. My feeling is a bigger, athletic safety who could play either FS or SS as needed would be excellent insurance for this roster, if that player exists. If they can play nickel or SAM all the better to get playmakers on the field in the meantime.
Cornerback is a position we need to reload. When we think about the LOB we think about 2013, when we had a glut of future starters. I absolutely love Shead, and think he should be a core piece for this team, but he’s a free agent and what if he gets offered Byron Maxwell money? Jeremy Lane is not going anywhere next year, but what about after that? It’s time to fill the larder.
All that said, it’s tough to argue against a true difference-maker at DT, though those players rarely fall to the bottom of the 1st- or second round if they have pass-rush ability. If one does, I think you have to recognize the value and pounce, even if it’s not the biggest need.
WR is also a need in the later rounds, in my opinion. I think the team will try to move on from Kearse or continue to truncate his snaps, and we need that big-body, jump-ball receiver to step into the role. Lockett is fantastic, but he can’t replicate what Kearse brings in terms of physicality. Pete likes his weapons, especially at receiver, to have different skill-sets. Maybe they see McEvoy really developing in that role, which is fine by me, but hard to count on for a guy really just learning the position. We also have to decide at what price we would try to retain Willson at TE. There has been speculation that Graham’s cap hit may get prohibitively high (I sincerely hope that speculation is wrong, love the guy), and so we could potentially have either three TE’s in our long-term plans, or, just one who has barely played so far.
There’s also the fact that we have yet to fill the SAM role with someone in the team’s future plans, and our backup LB situation is a weakness in my opinion.
My draft targets in terms of need:
1) OT
2) DT
2a) S
4) CB
5) LB
6) WR
7) TE?
What do you think, Rob?
Blocking is part of the issue, not the only issue.
I agree with a lot of what you said. My take is that the majority of best players in the draft are on defense, and that will get picked over heavily in the first two rounds. So it makes sense to move Defensive Tackle and Safety/cornerback up to the first two picks. That also fills the need that many of the fans feel – that the defense needs to be #1 because defense wins superbowls. Also a great secondary can cause turnovers, and Seahawks want those turnovers. I’m not as keen on DT because I think Rubin and Reed are both playing pretty well, but I would go along with it just to keep the new blood flowing into the defensive line. They can cause some of those turnovers too.
I’m beginning to see the middle rounds as the sweet spot for offensive players. Maybe they aren’t the highest rated at their position, but I think the Seahawks can still find solid players who will contribute.
The only way I would not go defense first two rounds is if there is an offensive game changer. Now in Robs scenario, the Seahawks miss out on combination running back/receiver Christian McCaffrey. Is a top defensive player worth more then a top running back? Or perhaps McCaffrey duplicates the skill set of Prosise and Rawls. This seems more likely and would be a reason not to pick McCaffrey early. I’m still interested in a big running back in the mid to late rounds.
Looks like Eric galko has Bolles going #3 overall this morning. Seems he might be shooting up boards like what was thought here.
Fournette at #14? Hawks would be all over that.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/list/nfl-mock-draft-order-2017-browns-49ers-bears-cowboys/rkzm0olamjcq1cnxvlxd3xq8c
That mock is pretty out there. Don’t mind Vea in Seattle though.
There are quite a few picks I don’t like, but I agree Fournette probably couldn’t fall any farther than that before someone traded up to take him. Him behind Cook is silly. Peppers is one guy I’ve seen Galko consistently talk about dropping outside of the top 15, not sure why he has some of the other names in odd places
I think Cook will go before Fournette, and that Peppers will be in the teens, at best. No way Bolles goes #3.
Wouldn’t surprise me. Bolles is insanely good.
I think with how bad the QB are being evaluated at this time, it will be perfect opportunity to trade back. I would agree to not fight the board.
2017 starters as of now:
Wilson
Rawls
Baldwin/Kearse/Lockett
Graham
Fant/Glow/Britt/Ifedi/Obi
Bennett/Avril/Reed/Rubin
Wright/Wagner/Marsh
Sherman/Terrell/Chancelor/Shead
Biggest needs/improvements needed:
Rushing DT
Guard or RT
Running back
Irvin replacement
Near future or upgrade needs:
Rushing DE
Safety to replace Earl and/or Chancelor
CB to replace Lane/Shead
WR to replace Kearse
By far, I would love to go DT as first pick. Then RB and either DE or OL.
2nd Nandi (DT)
2nd Foreman (RB)
3rd Wheeler (OT)
3rd Luani (S)
5th Dimick (DE)
He has been mentioned above so I might as well postulate the scenario…
What if the new Rams coach comes in with a 2-3 year plan and ownership signs off on it? In that case, Gurley’s value to the Rams would be lower than his value to the league making a potential trade a possibility. Why not make a move for him now and bring him into our system?
Probably a 1% chance of happening, but I guess if they are open to it, why not. Can the Hawks get Donald too?
Gurley
Donald
for
2016 1st
2016 3rd
2017 1st
Lane
Graham
2 1st rd picks that they don’t have right now.
Starting CB.
Starting All Pro TE that can be Goff go to target.
Love all the discussions. First time post.
The draft will all depend on what they can get done with the 2nd wave of free agency. Obviously they will likely sit out the big money portion of the draft and look for value in the 2nd wave.
To go along with Calais Campbell as your interior pass rusher signing, what about a run at Adrian Peterson? With his cap number and injury history, it is likely that he will be cut by the Vikings. Is he worth a look to team up with Rawls and Procise. Wont be needed to carry the load, but could be a tone setter for the offense. Maybe 2.5m guaranteed with another 2-3 in active roster incentives? Is the child abuse too much to take on PR wise?
This would then free up draft capital to move up if warranted or stay where they are and build depth at OL, SAM, and S.
I say make a splash but I don’t think we need to move up. Marshon Lattimore is my pick if its complete luxury. Love his game, I think it’s scheme-universal.
Sherm, Lattimore, Shead and Lane would would be an awesome, gritty, athletic and young CB room just like 2013. Come back and draft Luani and you can imagine just how quickly secondary talent
*elevates the entire defense.* lol
It’s clear Tom Cable has his hands full with the offensive line. Marshawn had incredible balance to go along with his disruptive power. He had a way of being consistent at getting yards behind sometimes ineffective run blocking. I think it is a huge gamble to think you can replace that player. In away finding a player to replace his ability to take on would be tacklers, would be like trying to find a replacement for Barry Sanders shiftiness. Marshawn, in his own right, was a generational talent in the right place.
While we can hope for and assume for some improvement along the offensive line, the Seahawks should attempt to guarantee some by throwing reasonable levels of money towards it in free agency. The Seahawks are near the bottom rated O-lines in the League. If it could trend more towards the middle of the pack, maybe Russell Wilson might have enough time to throw good passes on deep routes, or give Baldwin and Graham time to find holes in the defense underneath. We had a little glimpse of what Wilson can do with a little more time, late last season. We also saw what happens when the less than Mediocre offensive line goes up again stout defensive lines(the whole offense stalls).
In the meantime, we’ve seen enough good things out of Rawls and Procise to give them a chance to be the future at Running back.
If the Seahawks are going to trade way up, I’d prefer it be a ultra talented, NFL ready, offensive lineman. Consistency on offense will help the defense. Additionally the Seahawks have had better track record finding defensive talents later in the draft, than offensive talents.
Rob,
Why do you not have that guard from Notre Dame on here? I like him at end of first round. Tackles are always a reach at end of round one but good guards can be had. Guards are what really get the running game going, not tackles. We need a 3 tech on defense as well and an upgrade at strong side linebacker but those positions are deep and can be adressed with our two 3rd rounders. While my scouting is biased to northwest teams, these are the guys that impressed me this year:
Royce Freeman – this guy should be going pro, he is 1st round talent and why put more mileage on body at college level. He could help hawks next year. He will be as good as Jonathan Stewart should have been.
Gabe marks – upgrade over kearse, more heart, a Udfa that will make a team
John Ross – he will be a little better than desean Jackson in NFL
River cracraft – patriots will get him in 7th round and turn him into the next Julian Edelman.
Cooper Kupp – best player in the northwest he will be as good if not better than joe jerivicious (sp) was in his prime. No problem with hawks taking him as early as late 2nd round.
Here’s one more vote for RT, unless there is an exceptional RB or FS on the board. A good RT would help both the running and passing games, and as mentioned any first-round RB would take carries/catches away from Rawls and Procise. I could definitely see adding to the stable with one of our 3 picks in rounds 2-3, however, as this seems to be a great class for RBs. SAM/LEO is the other need that should be filled high.
Rob, regarding Cam Robinson, I can tell you that the Alabama coaching staff does not believe that Robinson has an attitude problem. He was elected a permanent team captain after the regular season, and Nick Saban gives out player-of-the-game awards, and he does not do so out of the goodness of his heart, but rather performance on and off the field… and Cam won the award more than any offensive player. Life Ifedi, Robinson is a prototype of size and athleticism, and plays with a mean streak based on watching every single game Bama played this season. If Bolles is gone and the Seahawks have a shot at Robinson, I have no doubt they would eagerly select him.
“Seattle’s hands-down my favorite place to play of anywhere I’ve played in the National Football League,” Fitzgerald said. “The energy in that building, how good they are defensively.”
Could he be a Seahawk next year?
I tend to agree with the idea of adding a powerful inside runner like Foreman, or of course Fournete. I was secretly hoping we could snag Royce Freeman after a down year had he declared. Maybe Perine could be a mid round option. Not sure about him other than he is a tank and has tremendous balance from the games I’ve seen. That said he might be a plodder.
We certainly end some OLine pieces and a other pass rusher. There are so many good safeties, but unless we get a hybrid S/CB they’d be somewhat wasted while Kam and Earl continue to roam.