VSiN appearance to discuss Seahawks vs Steelers


  1. Rob Staton

    If anyone can share this video around on other forums, reddit’s etc, please do. Here’s the link:


    Plus any likes on the actual YouTube page would be appreciated

    • Parallax

      Haven’t watched it yet but on reputation alone I’ve shared it with a recommendation on Facebook.

  2. BobbyK

    Seahawks need to bring back Wilson and keep Pete for ’24!

    Then they should find a worthless center who is total trash to play that position.

    After that, make sure one of the guards are terrible.

    Then spend a couple draft picks on tight ends, or just one pick but then make their splash free agent addition be a tight end. Then don’t use them much!

    Lastly, make sure to have a trash defense in ’24 so the cycle stays true to form.

    Seahawks 2024! Go Hawks! Mediocrity Forever!

    • Parallax

      Or keep Geno and overpay for another pointless season.

    • Whit21

      Depending on how pete was feeling about stepping down prior to this news.. hopefully they dont get any ideas about bringing russ back in 24 if he indeed is gonna be cut by denver and fixing the cap for another “1 last run” ..

      Would it be amazing haha moment between denver and seattle for the trade.. yes..

      Would it be a great story and comeback.. yes..

      Would it set back the franchise potentially.. yes.. but so would a bad head coaching hire.. the only thing with hiring a new coach is the belief that they could possibly be better than we have already seen for 6 years.. who knows..

      Id still rather have the top candidate come in and revamp the coaching staff and new life..

      But i have a sneaking suspicion that pete will come back.. or like i said a few months ago.. they bring in dan quinn for another shot.. if russ gets cut.. both options could allow a RW/seattle reunion..

      No matter what.. i hope they can get the QB they want in the draft.. no matter the cost.. if anything, it sounds like they have a good eye for the guys they wanted but couldnt get..

      Time will tell..

    • Mick

      The entire Wilson deal was actually a prank we pulled the Broncos. Now he’s coming back and we got a LT and a CB off this deal.

      Now seriously speaking, I see no way he returns in Seattle. Even if he’s still better than Geno.

      • Whit21

        This is just day 1 of the news breaking.. i still wont say “theres no way”.. i do think its highly unlikely.. i do hope this doesnt change the the dynamic going into the offseason we all hope for..

        New coach.. new QB.. but if comes down to cheaper than geno and he is better than geno.. (and has the history factor)

        I doubt it wont be discussed by all the front office in Seattle..

        The hawks still have time to maximize the young talent to position themselves to have a rookie QB… clear all the dumb money on overpriced defensive players and come back in 2025..

        If russell wants to come back under a new coach and a rookie QB.. under vet minimum.. then maybe.. HUGE maybe.. they need to right the ship..

    • Elmer

      Yeah! Let’s go find a C and RG that are worse than the ones we have, and then let’s overpay them.

  3. Parallax

    Had a chance to watch it. Feels like we’re in an endless time warp with this Seahawks team — as you’ve said, not good enough for a deep run, not bad enough to inspire the kind of changes that are needed. Once again, I’ll find myself rooting for a loss but pleased despite myself every time one of our guys shows out. Schizo-season continues.

    • Big Mike

      After the Philly win I knew I might as well just root for wins. Had they lost that one I would’ve rooted for losing out 6-11 might well have forced change. Only change now will be if he walks away (from 12.5 million).

  4. Parallax

    Brief thoughts on Russ. I don’t have any desire to pile on over his forcing his way out. Did us a favor. No way Pete was letting him go on his own. As caught as we are in purgatory, would be much worse if Russ were still under center without any of the talent we received because of the trade.

    I also don’t think Payton is wrong to bench him. Surprised he’ll be on the bench. Would be smarter to take a page out of our book with Adams and tell him to stay home. Can’t afford to get the guy injured. I don’t fault the Donkeys for asking him to waive the injury guarantee. Nothing wrong with advising a man as to the natural and logical consequences of a choice. I also don’t fault Russ and his agent for telling responding “No thanks; I’ll take my money”.

    All’s well that ends well for Seattle. Denver and Russ are left to pick up the pieces where a major disaster took place. I’m good with that.

    Going forward, with Denver on the hook for a big payout, I imagine Russ will take any contract to have a shot at starting again. I don’t know if he goes to a place where he might compete for the starting job or if he chooses to compete to back up on a team that could be Superbowl bound. Is it better to fight Darnold for the right to back up Purdy, for instance — assuming San Francisco delights in the irony of giving us the Sherman middle finger, and be one injury away from the starting role with a guy before him who has proven not always sturdy? Or does he go to a team that’s hoping to get a year or two of solid play from an older signal caller. Just please dear God, let it not be Seattle. And please dear God let’s not overpay Geno for another year of mediocre play. Let’s draft a QB with real promise and perhaps re-sign Lock, giving him the chance to compete for the starting job while also asking him to mentor a rookie.

    • James Z

      I doubt Carroll or JS have any interest in a re-union with RW. My concern is that Seattle does not draft a QB with promise who could use a year to sit and instead rolls with Geno again as the Big Dog. Thus punting the QB choice down the road yet again.

      • Parallax

        That’s my fear too. In Pete I do not trust.

      • Elmer

        Yup. If they are going to do that then please go find some OL and DL monsters. And then there will be some R5 or R6 QB that they will hail as the next franchise savior.

  5. Jabroni-DC

    The Ravens demonstrated what a good center can do for your line.
    Envious in Seattle

    • A-ok

      This is one thing I don’t understand about their approach. We have been terrible since Unger left, and they have never attempted to get a top talent C. I dont get it, it CLEARLY matters.

      Olu was an award winner in college, but I’m not sure what’s holding him back from playing. I don’t imagine he’s going to be a big time starter if he can’t beat out Evan Brown.

      • Whit21

        And yet.. ethan pocic has a 71.6 PFF grade this year.. he does have 2 really good guards on each side.. but still.. evan brown is 53 something..

        I think its safe to say that the interior has been a problem for some time.. its not just center..

        • Big Mike

          I think its safe to say that the interior has been a problem for some time.. its not just center

          Agree but the good news is they’ve allocated a lot of money on the Safety position.

          • Rob Staton

            PFF’s 82nd and 83rd ranked safeties aren’t going to pay for themselves…

          • Elmer

            A little sarcasm by Big Mike. I like it!

        • MMjohns195

          I don’t always think PFF is reliable, not in any consistent way, they seem to have a built in bias for Seattle at times. I don’t think brown has been nearly as big an issue as the two guards, between Bradford / Haynes / Peters, and then Lewis. I think alot of the issue with Olu is just it takes along time to learn the calls at the NFL level, and my guess would be he’s the starting C next year. He can start if need be but the line calls may not be as good or reliable. I’d expect him as the starter next year.

          • WLO333

            I agree with this. Brown seems to be an average level center, and probably not as bad as people think, but his knowledge gives him the edge over Oluwatimi, who should get his shot to start next year unless if things proceed as hoped.

            I’m not sure how reliable PFF is either, but they had Peters rated highly last I looked. I think that matches what I’ve seen. But, he’s old and in and out (probably because of age and wear and tear), but has filled in nicely in spots.

            Lewis, on the other hand, has showed no significant improvement since his rookie year, and should only be re-signed at an average to low number next season.

            Haynes hasn’t shown he can hold up to the physical demands of starting, but has shown slightly above average talent when healthy (which unfortunately is almost never).

            The biggest x factor might be Anthony Bradford. He has the strength and push to be a mauler, but is still somewhat of a liability because of the number of mistakes he makes out there. There was one play I watched where Lewis pulled right and Brad pulled left, and they took each other out like a pair of Stooges. Still, I think players like Bradford and Oluwatimi have to become competent starters for this team to move forward next year. Unfortunately, other than JSN, Witherspoon, and Mafe (who has cooled significantly), we saw very little of this from the celebrated 2022 and 2023 draft classes this year.

      • Peter


        What’s holding Olu back is that he wasn’t named the starter.

        That’s who plays now for Seattle.

        Bad snaps. Bad blocking. Does not matter. Once you get that starter designation you are locked in.

        • 509 Chris

          Can you win the starting job in rookie camp? No
          Can you win the starting job in training camp? No
          Can you win the starting job in your rookie year? No
          Can you win the starting job in your second year? Yes!

        • 509 Chris

          Seriously though this has always been a huge problem with Carroll. Rookies have to be absolute studs to start, especially on the lines. Unless they’re actually behind a truly good player, I say throw the young guys in and let them go.

          • Peter

            It’s really holding the team back. If not short term then long term.

            Brown should have been given the hook. Now all we know is the starting center needs an upgrade. Draft pick? Free agent? Who knows because we know nothing about Olu.

  6. Mick

    I didn’t see the Browns as a possible surprise, but you got strong arguments in favor, Rob.

  7. BeingZinfull

    This might be an unpopular opinion, but I believe the Steelers have a very good chance of beating the Seahawks. The Pittsburgh defense has the chops to shut down Seattle’s offense and if that happens, and if Pittsburgh decides to gameplan a run-heavy approach, it is highly likely that the Seahawks lose ugly. While that would be a sad result, the silver lining would be the hope that maybe, just maybe, Carroll might think a little bit extra hard of making tough choices (including retirement).

    • Big Mike

      You spelled stealers wrong. Outside of that I agree the Hawks could well lose Sunday. Their D is tough. I look forward to cha’s breakdown and I’m not as sophisticated in Xs and Os as he by a long way, but seems to me the Hawks need plenty of quick developing pass plays so Watt isn’t introducing himself up close and personal to Geno on a regular basis. Successfully running the ball would help that a great deal too. As far as run heavy vs. Seattle D, they aren’t very good t running the ball iirc tho you don’t have to be great when playing the Hawks I suppose.

      • Peter

        Always enjoy seeing Watt and his 15+ sacks a year average. That was the draft where I started to lose faith in both John and Pete as they outsmarted themselves out of almost a dozen picks and including Chris Carson essentially whiffed a whole draft cycle.

        Forget JA. That year is patient zero for the beginning of the bad bandage decisions that got us here.

        And by here I mean a bottom of the league defense.

    • geoff u

      The NFC is so terrible we can easily still make the playoffs at 9-8. If the Vikings beat Green Bay (very possible), then lose to the Lions (very possible) and we beat the Cards (or Stealers but not both (very possible)), we’re in.

      • vanhawksfan

        Frankly, it feels like the playing field has levelled out so far that we should just let San Fran & Baltimore play a best of 7 game series. Most of the teams are shiite, relatively.

        • geoff u

          There’s been quite a few times where the top team has gone 14-2 or 13-3 and then loses in the first round, though. Baltimore was one of those teams a few years back. One bad game (or great game by the opponent) and suddenly the Super Bowl is wide open.

          • geoff u

            The sad state of the NFC (especially the QBs) is why I DESPERATELY want us to do whatever it takes to get a franchise QB. The unique opportunity is there to go on a a serious long Super Bowl run.

  8. Big Mike

    Good stuff as always Rob. It is indeed strength vs. strength (stealer D vs. Hawks O) this week though unfortunately I see their D as a greater strength than the Hawks inconsistent at times O. If the Hawks D could force a couple of turnovers that might be the difference.

    You touched on the Browns…….how delicious would it be for Flacco to play against the Ravens in the playoffs? The media has been all over Stafford vs. Detroit, but I’ve heard no mention of Flacco vs. Baltimore. I’m rooting for both.

    • LouCityHawk

      Was messing around with playoff scenarios with some commenter on different site who wanted projections.

      I defended my position that the Seahawks would lose the Super Bowl to the Cleveland Browns and MVP Flacco.

      Exactly what we all dreamed of, getting steamrolled to give the Browns their first SB.

      • Peter

        I appreciate the bold takes.

        I can see because we’ve all seen it beating Detroit in Detroit.

        I just don’t see how our team beats very many of the other teams in the nfc in their house.

        On the one hand we almost beat Dallas. On the other…we actually list to Dallas. Who adjusts better? I don’t follow Dallas and always root against them so I really don’t know.

        We beat Eagles, good. But, if they play the same lame brand if football and 86 the turnovers that’s enough against a team that spends every gane trying to find a game plan.

        Niners. I guess hope Purdy throws 4 ints? I think it’s something like 11- 13 point beating is the average every time over five games. They are beatable. By the Rams. I’ve not seen a single spark to indicate there’s an answer on our team.

        Rams. Top 10 offense vs….20th ranked everything. Third times the charm I suppose.

        While Rob is talking about the Browns I think the Rams are the wildcard team most likely to be in the NFC championship game.

        • BK26

          I’ve said it all season: we lose to better coaches and better overall rosters. Eagles are the exception but they are…having issues.

          When we play teams with both, well…see the Ravens, 9 e r s, and Rams (Rams are debatable, but they have better allocated roster pieces).

          Doesn’t matter how close the game, that has been the outcome all season, and for the past few years.

          Also, how different are the Eagles going to be with Hurts not sick? And pissed off?

          • Peter

            The win against them has definitely risen boats in seahawksland. Everyone* loves a fourth quarter comeback. Heck people are selling t-shirts with that on it.

            I didn’t see a game where I thought ‘there’s a beatable team,’ in the cold at their house. I saw a team do what we do often which is give a win to the opponent by making a few dumb choices. Not sure why they were taking deep shots when they did not need to against a familiar defender. Great plays by Love to be sure….

            * play all phases of the game well for all four quarters….just a thought.

    • Peter

      I think hesitantly we win.

      The problem I see is their defense is actually good where our offense is ‘better than their offense.’*

      * which is to say not good at all. 19th in scoring*

      • Big Mike

        But Peter, did you factor in the zebras? You and I both know the NFL would prefer the stealers in the playoffs. You know, TV ratings, “legacy” franchise, etc., etc., etc. and the winner has a far easier path to the postseason.

        P.S. Super Bowl XL*

        • Peter

          While I would never say the league is rigged, I mean we did win the superbowl once, I will definitely agree that the league and its television partners have preferences.

          I think if Seattle has/had a truly dominating team none of it matters.

          It’s also why I think playing in Dallas a second time is not going to be easy.

          Home cooking from the refs. And we’re not a team that is so good that we get any benefit of the doubt. Without looking I believe we are still the most penalized team in the league.

        • Blitzy the Clown

          It’s Shawn Hochuli’s crew too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

          • Parallax

            I knew Ed Hochuli. We both practiced law in Tucson. His office was really cool. Lots of NFL memorabilia. Signed footballs and photos. Guy had a cool job.

            Didn’t know him well. I don’t think we ever had a case together and I don’t recall ever having an in-depth conversation. Probably better to say I knew of him and that we sometimes crossed paths. I had a case with his brother, who was a fierce litigator. It was a dependency case. On one occasion, outside the courtroom before a status conference, he was ranting about something and my client exploded at the guy. Said something like, “You’re a fxxxing animal.” The guy lacked compassion for my client, who was a messed up person, rightly separated from her children, but a human being who was suffering. She called him out on his callousness. Can’t recall the brother’s name. Was over 25 years ago. It wasn’t Shawn. I didn’t know there was a Shawn at the time. Must be at least three brothers. Ed is both an attorney and a ref. The other two appear to wear just one hat.

            • Big Mike

              I think Shawn is Ed’s kid not brother (don ‘t care enough to Google it).

              • Blitzy the Clown

                Well hell, I brought it up so I’ll check…

                Shawn is Ed’s son. From Wikipedia:

                He entered the league in the 2014 NFL season and was promoted for 2018 from back judge to referee, following the retirement of his father, longtime referee Ed Hochuli and another veteran official, Jeff Triplette.

                • Parallax

                  Awesome, thanks. I’ve been away from Tucson since 2010.

  9. ShowMeYourHawk


    Florio and Nepo Baby on where Russ could decide to play next season. Not gonna lie, if bringing him back on a one year, vet min contract means we can use the Geno money, in conjunction with the cash that cutting Adams would create, to resign Williams and have more in the coffers for free agency, sign me up. It wouldn’t preclude us drafting a QB that could sit for a season and if it didn’t work, we’d be one year closer to Pete’s departure anyways.

    It’s almost certainly not going to happen but if you’re going to go “mid” QB next season, go the cheapest route, especially if Denver is paying most of his income. 🤷🏽

    • Big Mike

      “Nepo Baby”??

      • ShowMeYourHawk

        Yep. Coasting on daddy’s name. A slightly above average QB in college, then a complete faceplant in the NFL.

        He’s transitioned into NFL media, which is bizarre since he’s a marble-mouthed speaker whose contributions with Florio are typically “yeah, what you said but slightly different, to seem like I’ve given this thought.”

        • Rob Staton

          I quite enjoy Florio & Simms as a duo

          • ShowMeYourHawk

            Florio is a good writer and a capable speaker. His ability to get his point across is further enhanced when talking with Simms, who’s the equivalent of speaking to your Golden Retriever. Dopey but there to support you and your ideas.

            But, I digress…. I’m desperate to be rid of Geno next season. He’s the casual fan’s MVP. He’s good enough to keep us from a top 10 pick but bad enough to keep us from serious contention. It’s the purgatory of irrelevance. I’ve ZERO confidence that JS finally finds the testicular fortitude to trade up for a QBOTF. Ripping the bandage off and going cheaper vet to open cap and selecting a QB in our native slot to not sacrifice our future draft flexibility seems the most prudent option. It doesn’t have to be Russ (likely won’t) but who other than the front office wants another year of THIS?

          • Big Mike

            Likewise Rob and I disagree with the opinions stated about Chris. Is he the greatest? Nope but he’s pretty good.

    • mantis

      John Schneider would quit before he had to deal with Mark Rodgers again

      • ShowMeYourHawk

        If the deal is vet min, what is there to haggle over?

      • Rob Staton

        This is true, John won’t go within a mile of Mark Rodgers

    • BK26

      I’d rather we just be done talking about Russ and the Seahawks until he is getting inducted into the ring. The conversations, irrationality, everything was just one giant headache.

      There is really no point in talking about it. Both sides moved on and are still salty about it. We need that page to stay turned.

      Doubt he takes a deal that is cheap enough to be offended by.

      • Peter

        Hope one day we can be a legit team again instead of all this talk.

        Hey we’re one game over .500 in two seasons post Wilson. Let’s throw a parade!!

      • Whit21

        My last opinion on RW.. i think everyone will know his level of greed and selfish behavior if he doesnt take vet minimum..

        Today, im leaning towards he trys to sign a 2 or 3 year deal that is team friendly in year 1, then kicks in whatever he can get in 2025..

        Mark rodgers has never let Russ play under a 1 year deal or 1 year left.. its wishfull thinking to say he signs vet min. 1 year prove it deal.. not happening..

        • Rob Staton

          Not sure you understand the point

          Denver are on the hook for his salary. That’s why he takes a small contract. It gives his new team cap relief and Denver picks up the tab

          As Florio explains:

          The Broncos eventually would get a credit for Wilson’s earnings elsewhere in 2024. If he takes the one-year veteran minimum of $1.21 million from his next team, that’s all the Broncos will get by way of credit.

          • ShowMeYourHawk

            ….which is why I found it an intriguing possibility. We could do much worse (also, much better if JS actually does his job in drafting a QBOTF) than a humbled QB that can act as a game manager, on a lower contract than either of the QBs on the squad this season.

            • Peter

              I’m not a religious man but I’m thinking of taking up something so I can start praying he retires so hawks fans can let. It. Go.

              • BK26

                Why would we start now?

                If we ever draft a young guy and he has a bad game, fans will be wanting to call up recently retired Geno Smith to come back for “one last game-winning drive….”

              • ShowMeYourHawk

                It’s an idea. Not a great one, not an impossible one. I’ve no thought that 2015 era Russ is going to walk through that door. I personally hope that we draft our next starting QB in April. BUT, should that not come to pass because (enter John Schneider’s annual excuse here), if my options are a $30 mil Geno, a $7-10 mil Drew Lock or a sub $3mil Russ, I know which door I open.

                • Peter

                  He’s not though.

                  If we’re using Joe Flacco as the analog, Joe was literally never a good qb.

                  He had one season only that got anywhere near Wilson. He was always a turnover machine.

                  Wilson has less yards and a big magnifier on him this year about how cruddy he was. I’d take his 26 tds to 8 ints over whatever Geno’s doing any day.

                  Just based on how qbs go round and round the teams…I definitely think the days of big contracts are over for him. I also think it’s pretty wishful for any team thinking they can get him for 3 million are a few years away.

                  • ShowMeYourHawk

                    We’ll see, I suppose. Denver will be paying him a truckload once he’s cut. Is it possible he’ll want to maximize his next contract? Perhaps. He may realistically have settle for a “prove it” deal in order to open the door for his next/last multi-year contract offer. If that’s the case, Seattle should at least put out feelers. The benefits outweigh the negatives. If the whole thing crashes and burns, would we be worse off than the results of the past seven years? It’s not like Pete is going anywhere.

                    The monies saved by dumping Geno, cutting Adams, Mone, Dissly & Diggs and letting Lock, Wagner, Fant, Haynes & Evan Brown walk this offseason would put our cap in a much healthier spot. Yes, that means we’d have some serious reshaping to do. A cheaper vet QB (Wilson, Taylor, Brissett, Minshew) allows us to resign Williams and make a few other well placed pickups in FA. You draft a QB in the late 1st. Money saved and the team has a future to look ahead to.

                • El Cavito

                  As much as I don’t like the idea of a Russ return, I do feel that Russ (and his resume) mentoring a QBOTF would, in my mind “for the sake of discussion in this moment,” be preferable to Geno/Drew.

                  • BK26

                    This is the guy that got very offended when Schneider went to scout other quarterbacks pre-draft. That is why his contracts started having no-trade clauses.

                    He won’t be a mentor. He will either be in to start or probably walk away. He wouldn’t be able to handle someone coming from behind him.

                    No matter what, he isn’t going to come back. He shouldn’t come back. He won’t want to and John won’t want him to. Articles about Russ and this whole situation are getting hundreds more comments than other articles. We need to move on from this. Going back to the past doesn’t help the future at all.

                    (not directly meaning to you, but the amounts of traction that this has picked up is…sad).

                  • Chris

                    I don’t mind the idea of a cheap veteran next year to possibly start and be a mentor to the QBOTF that we’d better draft. Russ is far too self-absorbed to ever be a mentor though, and will have zero interest in doing it. He comes out of the A.Rodger/P.Manning mindset when it comes to treatment of other QBs on the team.

            • Rob Staton

              I think we need to remember:

              — The report that suggested Wilson tried to get Carroll fired

              — The fact JS hates Mark Rodgers

              This aint happening

          • Whit21

            I am just saying that i doubt his ego will allow that.. if he can go somewhere and secure more than a 1 year deal and a team will give him more than the minumum.. he will do it.. why just concede vet minimum when u can have 39 mil for 2024 and another 5 to 15 mil..

            Who would turn down extra money if a team agrees to it?

            • Rob Staton

              Who is paying him $39m next year? It’s not happening, not after the last three years.

              He will sock it to the Broncos financially and sign a one year contract with the hope of proving himself. It’s the only way he will get back into the league. And if his ego is that big, he’ll back himself to earn a shot at earning a lot more than $5-15m in 2025.

              But I have to say, this might be it for Russ. There aren’t going to be a long line of options next year. Will there be any?

              • PJ in Seattle

                Atlanta or Pittsburgh might make a lot of sense.

              • Whit21

                You’re not getting what i am saying.. Russell wilsons contract is guaranteed next season. (2024) for 37 or 39 mil.. one of the two.. thats Florio’s whole argument.. that he GETS that money no matter what.. and he can sign for vet minimum to any team next year.. i was saying that russ and his ego/mark Rogers will try and get every dollor they can..

                I bet whatever you want to bet.. if RW is cut at the new league year.. and signs with a team for 1 year at vet minimum.. (1.3 million) then i lose and i am wrong.. i am saying… i dont think he will do that.. he will sign with a team for multiple years.. probably close to vet minimum and then the contract kicks into 15 mil+ in subsequent years..

                • Rob Staton

                  Nobody is going to sign him for multiple years for the reasons I said earlier. He might not get ‘any’ offers period.

                  And he isn’t going to do all of this for the sake of 5-15m in 2025 when it’s much more satisfying to hammer the Broncos to the max. Plus, as I said, if he really has such a big ego, he will back himself on a one year deal to prove he’s worth ‘far’ more in 2025.

        • Peter

          Good grief.

        • BK26

          Is it greed or is it pride? (the answer is pride)

          If the same thing happened to Aaron Rodgers, is he taking a veteran minimum? These guys have been at the top, they aren’t going to want to drag through the league, maybe get beaten out by a young guy, and be earning what Journeyman Joe is getting.

          • Peter

            I think every player and coach should look at their out put and at the end of every year just take the nearest dollar to whatever the lowest paid player with the same results has.

            It’s just the right thing to do.

            Geno….4 million (myers’ pay for myers’ level of scoring)
            Wagner….vet min
            Diggs….vet min
            Adams….vet min
            Jones….maybe 1 million less than Reed
            Dissly…..practice squad money
            Witherspoon…..I hate to say it but he’s missed some games so he should be giving those game checks back.

            Carrol…..whatever Stefanski is getting less a million.

            If you’re too dumb to get Robert Kraft to pay outside of a typical contract for other business interests….frankly you’re not a team player and I don’t want any part of you on my team.

            • Parallax

              Witherspoon? Sorry, no. There’s a kid whose been earning his money and, if he stays healthy, will earn a heck of a lot more.

              • Peter

                Obviously I’m joking. Fans have this odd idea that players should take/make less money when they play a sport for a fewxyears if their lives that literally makes money no matter if the team is good, bad, or indifferent.

                Impretty ambivalent on players getting top money.

                • Big Mike

                  Fans have this odd idea that players should take/make less money when they play a sport for a few years

                  Funny tho they rarely think the owners should make less

                  • Peter

                    Big Mike….100%

                    It’s weird when fans almost take up for the owners.

  10. UkAlex6674

    Wilson to New England. Book it.

    They have a D and a run game.

    Add Wilson and a WR or two via draft or FA and BB has a small window to go back out on top of the pile.

    • Rob Staton

      It’s already been revealed BB won’t be coaching in NE next year

  11. Big Mike

    Just heard Nick Wright say that he knows he’s presented a good take on his TV show because all the comments on Twatter/X afterwards are about his hair and his suit “because people don’t want to debate topics if they disagree”. Hmmmm, sounds like a certain draft blog where people want to denigrate the host based on his country of residence or the fact that he “never played the game”, etc.

    • Rob Staton

      I’ve been saying it for years.

      When you present a detailed argument and people find the subject matter inconvenient and difficult to counter, they’ll just resort to smears and insults.

      It’s all they’ve got.

      Very few people want to engage in a serious debate. Even fewer are prepared to acknowledge a reasoned argument, even if they disagree, and just get on with their life.

      This week I’ve been sent a fair few messages of abuse, on here and via email.

      Why? Because the Seahawks won two games and people now feel emboldened to go into attack mode.

      Our culture is f***ed.

      • BK26

        And the problem is, most people enjoy those discussions in person. To sit and throw ideas back and forth about their teams and discuss sports is such a nice element to culture.

        I just don’t get it. I am a Bucks fan, D-backs fan, Hawkeyes fan. This level of…”yeah, but your face is stupid and I am just smarter” as a counter argument is like nothing that I’ve seen in other teams. It is there to a degree, but nowhere near the same.

        Our culture is indeed screwed.

      • Whit21

        Dont worry Rob.. im still pessimistic as iv always been.. its trash to me that PC defense sucked with russell wilson.. and its trash without.. AND.. spent a lot of resources on it..

        That alone should ignite a firing frenzy that i believe paul allen would have started 2 years ago..

        Ill say it again. If someone can find the mike holmgren interview on KJR years ago when he detailed the events of losing Hutchinson in the poison pill deal.. Paul allen was not a guy to F with..

        This team is no better than the one that lost to Dallas in dallas.. all these pundits always look at the shiny objects.. maybe its their job to not be so negative while being negative..

        What wins in the playoffs is superstars, elite talent, and good coaching.. period.. football is such a team sport that you cannot luck out multiple wins for a superbowl.. unless the refs get involved in MAYBE 1 game..

        Thats why i wont take away from some of the patriots wins when they got lucky.. they still had to go out there and win.. (biggest luck win was SB 49 btw.. all our defense was hurt before the final drive.. Lane, avril, kam torn mcl, sherm bum arm, earl bum shoulder.. )

        The hard conversations are always going to be met with criticism.. until the thing you said would happen, happens.. even then the “i told u so moment” comes.. it doesnt mean much when its your team and they F’ed up..

        Keep it real Rob.. its whats gotten you this far!

    • ShowMeYourHawk

      Devil’s Advocate: Nick Wright does look a bit like Count Olaf from A Series of Unfortunate Events with his current hairstyle. You can agree with his sports takes and still think that this dude needs a barber in the worst way.

      • Rob Staton

        He’s been on quite a hair journey

        He had none for a long time — not sure if that was a choice or if he’s since had some work done

        Now he’s 87% hair

        • ShowMeYourHawk


          “We have a team of top men working on preventing the last 13.”

          • cha




            • ShowMeYourHawk

              House Curtis is awarded 10 points.

        • Whit21

          A while back i did watch the show once.. only once i swear.. he explained that his wife helps him with his hairstyle to eventually grow it out longer..

      • BK26

        I quit listening to him the moment he mentioned that the Chiefs were going to go undefeated this year, clear back in the summer. Almost did a spit take in the middle of dim sum.

        Oh course, I was trying to refrain from watching him already, but that did it in for me. Don’t remember the other debater, but he was shocked.

        • RomeoA57

          He is the KC Chiefs version of Skip Bayless. Completely incapable of having a rational view of his favorite team. I find people like that very annoying, which is why I prefer places like SDB.

    • 509 Chris

      Pencil neck is still my favorite. I started saying it to my 3 year olds they think its pretty funny. People occasionally around here will accuse us as a group of being Staton disciples, like brainwashed with completely homogenized thought. It got be thinking because I rarely disagree with Rob or most of the other regular contributors of the blog and comments. But it made sense, because Rob doesn’t give hot takes. He gives analysis after whats clearly a lot of thought and then backs it up with fa ts and well reasoned arguments. The group as a whole kind of holds itself to that standard in the comments or one finds themselves corrected from every direction.

      The real evidence to the deterioration of our society is that absolute trash outlets and hack journalists get the vast majority of views. People don’t want reason in their sports discussions anymore than they do their politics. Kind of off topic but society needs legal regulations on social media. I rarely call for government regulations in anything, but social media is about to kill the western world as we know it. All social media profiles should be tied to a ss numer or other identification. No more anonymous bs. And minors should not have social media. Let our kids grow up normal and at 18 they can poison their brains like we do with gambling and strip joints, which hit the same endorphin receptors. Sorry about the tangent! Thanks for the great hawks talk though as always.

      • Rob Staton

        I wish there was a way to dissuade kids from social media

        It’s poisoned our culture

        • Happy Hawk

          100% Agree!

    • KennyBadger

      Nick Wright is a total gasbag. And would look better if he was radio exclusively.

  12. Rob Staton

    What Kevin Stefanski has done with the Browns offense this year, is remarkable.

    Jealous AF.

    • Palatypus

      But we’ll probably get Brian Griese in our stocking next Christmas, as Waldron’s replacement.

    • cha

      Last time the Seahawks scored as many as 27 in the first half?

      31 in the ‘Russell Wilson this might be my last game in seattle’ game vs Detroit.

      Stefanski’s doing it without Willis, Chubb, Cooper and Watson and with a scrap heap QB.

      • cha

        Oh and Conklin too

        • Palatypus

          Which is why I am firing up Episode 5 of Jack Reacher.

        • Rob Staton

          Stefanski is an incredible coach.

          Rapid rise up through the ranks, quickly elevating to a HC. He’s only 41. This is what he’s achieved… in Cleveland.

          11-5 first season — which was only good enough to finish third in the AFC North. Hammered the Steelers in Pittsburgh for the team’s first playoff win since 1994. Only just lost to the Chiefs in the next round on the road.

          8-9 and 7-10 since then amid utter and total chaos as they flipped from Mayfield’s implosion to the Watson trade debacle.

          Now heading for an 11-5 record with a week to go despite missing sooooo many players, bringing Joe Flacco out of retirement and having to use four different QB’s this season.

          Would he ever lose with a top QB 😂

          • Rob Staton

            And while the Jets suck — they have the #3 defense per DVOA. 34 points and 367 yards in a half.

            The Browns hit a home run here.

            • cha

              David Njoku in the last 3 games and the first half tonight: 37 targets

              Noah Fant targets after 15 games: 37 targets

              David Njoku targets through 15.5 games: 121

              All Seahawks TEs targets through 15 games: 83

              • Ground_Hawk

                I read that DK sat out Thursdays practice. If he’s a no go on Sunday perhaps PC will get out of his comfort zone and get the TEs involved…in the passing game…like other good teams.

                • Peter

                  DK regularly has missed mid week practices.

              • Andy J

                I was on Team We-Have-A-Top-TE-Room… but damnnnnn what a disappointment this year has been and how wrong I was.

                • Mick

                  To be fair that we didn’t use them right, not like they played badly.

                • Rob Staton

                  We don’t use the TE’s

                  When we have, they’ve looked great

                  • Peter

                    2022: 135 targets

                    Not sure why the team went from using them to not.

                  • MMjohns195

                    This is a chief complaint of mine. You’re spending 20m on two tight ends, and while i won’t argue about the cost of dissly (i personally think on another team he’d have more yards tds like golden tate did), there’s no reason to not have Noah involved more, i mean 37 targets is obscene. He’s a very talented player and could easily be WR3 with his athleticism, but here he’s just kept inline to block. They haven’t used the tight ends consistently in carroll’s entire tenure. Think to how zach miller was used:

                    Miller at OAK 4yr Averaged 87 tgts in Sea 36 (not counting the injured year)
                    Jimmy at NO Averaged 137 (not counting rookie) Sea 88
                    Since then the season high has been both Fant (21) and Everett (20) at 63 targets.

                    It’s a waste of resources. If you’re not going to use the tight ends then don’t spend 20m on them. If i were fant, i don’t care if Seattle pays the same or more, i’m not coming back to get 40 targets a year.

                  • Peter

                    MMJohns….Cha and I both suspect Fant won’t be back and will actually get quite a nice pay out from another team.

                    Maybe Dissly is better somewhere else. For 10 million I’d still like to see a combination of more yards, tds, and better blocking.

                    It’s weird with Fant. They basically proved he could be a weapon last year and then dropped it.

            • swedenhawk

              Stefanski worked for Brad Childress early on. Does that make him part of the Andy Reid coaching tree?

              • Peter

                It’s a pretty big blind spot in Carrol’s legacy…the lack of top flight coaches associated with him.

          • GoHawks5151

            Was just talking with a friend about this. He has done a great job. Weird to look across the field and see the opposite. Stefanski losses all these guys and finds a way. Saleh loses Aaron, shrugs and proceeds to punt for next year. Maybe another example of a Defensive HC vs an Offensive one.

            • Big Mike

              Well that would be a helluvan argument for sure.

              • Peter

                Who knows if Saleh is even a decent coach. Don’t envy a guy who has less say than his qb who isn’t playing.

                • Henry Taylor

                  I think he’s clearly a brilliant defensive mind but he needs an elite QB, and the Jets are cursed to never have one of those.

                  • Peter

                    Perhaps he needs an elite qb.

                    For all the grief I give Geno a lot of it is that the team/he is not playing like a high flying offense which is how this team is built….that said current era Geno on the jets with still a cruddy oline but that defense…could be a real problem.

                    It’s like last year in Seattle. That version Geno with ( top 10 offense) with a defense sitting around 14,15,16 as opposed to 25th overall…I think Seattle could have been a problem in the playoffs.

                    I do respect Saleh for organizing his defense so well for most of the season.

    • Henry Taylor

      Eminently more likeable without Watson playing, but I can’t be too happy for the franchise and decision makers that made that deal. But yeah, brilliant head coach.

  13. 509 Chris

    Yes the millionaire athletes that I love to watch are the worst, lets side with the billionaire owners. You also hear all the time when a player is holding out for a new deal, “But they signed the contract so they should honor it.” Teams cut guys with money on their deals all the time and no one says that they should be held responsible to the contract they agreed to.

    I’ve thought for a while that they could do more to reward bonuses for guys on rookie deals who over preform them, maybe allowing teams to pay said bonuses off the cap. Also something that allows the team to cut guys and pay some of the remainder of their salaries off the cap. It would allow teams to be a little more generous when signing say running backs, or older guys.

    • 509 Chris

      This was meant as a reply to Peter and Big Mike up a ways.

      • Big Mike

        Good ideas and good post

      • Peter

        Great stuff!!

        It’s a great trick the 32 owners have pulled on fans.

      • BSLBobby

        I think the NFLPA would do well to get a league-wide rookie/first contract bonus pool in place like the MLBPA did for pre-arbitration players. Julio Rodriguez just got almost $2M for his play, which isn’t close to his worth, but it’s something.

        My Dad and I were talking about this in the context of running backs as well – since they have such short careers and rarely see a second, much less third contract, the NFLPA would do well to get some sort of bonus-pay system in place for them or allow them to essentially “play out” of their rookie deal so they can cash in year 3 if they’re a stud (although teams could then limit snaps to avoid losing them…).

    • Troy D

      Sharpe and Ocho cooked on Sharpe’s YT with this kind of take. Its absurd how much the owners get backed. I hope the day comes that the players use their power. Of course, the playing window is so small for NFL guys that its hard to envision anytime soon. I guess if NIL gets so expansive that most guys in the league come in comfortable enough…it becomes more viable.

      While your last paragraph seems nice. Lets be fair. They wouldnt pay guys cause they feel like they should but certainly take advantage of not having it on the books.

      Broncos find themselves in an interesting time cause free agents and the lke are gonna be really curious about how it all went down.

      • RomeoA57

        You also have guys who are way overpaid like Jamal Adams. I believe that it kind of balances out. Overpaid and underperforming
        veterans against tookies receiving relatively little on a fixed contract.

        In a fair world, Jamal should give some of his money to the young guys on the Seahawks who actually contribute to a positive outcome. Nothing about pro sport contracts is fair, though.

        • BobbyK

          Or/and punish the idiots who give Jamal Adams that much money.

    • cha

      They do have the Proven Performance Escalators, the snap-count based benefit and a first-round player can inflate his 5th year option price with play time and Pro Bowls.

      That is as good as it’s ever been for rookies.

      I would guess the membership is about as happy as it could be voting for benefits for players who aren’t even in the union yet.

  14. BobbyK

    Seahawks 320
    Opponents 352

    I can see where some 8-7 teams can think they can make a run if they have clearly outscored their opponents in those games. But when you’re an 8-7 team and are getting beat by over 30 points, yet have a winning record, the reality is you’re not that good. A couple of more wins and they still probably won’t have outscored their opponents on the year, yet will end up 10-7 with the inevitable playoff embarrassment coming and equally inevitable coaching cliche how “we were so close” because we made the playoffs.

    Lets run it back in ’24 for the inevitable… record just over .500… perhaps the playoffs with another dominant elimination spanking from a superior team in the playoffs…

    Mediocre Pete Ball at its best!

    • 805Hawk

      “Oh, you are just a spoiled fan! You obviously weren’t a fan in the tough years! This is really good for a team in their second year of a rebuild! Etc. etc. etc.”. This is the answer I get to any criticism of the team on Twitter/X. So many in denial and with low expectations for the team.

      • Joseph

        I think Petehawk fans are more irritating than cowboy and 49er fans. They are a little too grateful for the sb win and compare him to Belichick. As if they ignore the fact that he’s mostly responsible for sb 49 and we’ve been a laughing stock ever since.

  15. Phil

    The only way I see RW signing with Seattle is if Jerry DiPoto offers him a 6-yr., $24 M contract to play second base for the Mariners. (For those who don’t follow baseball, the Mariners signed Evan White to an identical contract before he ever took a professional at bat ….) Who cares if he is 35????

  16. 805Hawk

    Bowl games are so hard to watch. I’m an Oregon State fan and was looking forward to the game against ND. However, they are barely functioning. On just offense, the starting QB, both tackles, and RB are out (among others) and now the #1 WR is injured. The combination of the transfer portal and the NFL draft is just killing bowl season. Why even bother?! I think I’ll go take my Christmas lights down.

    • Big Mike

      With the 12 team playoff which will likely soon be 16 imo, I think the bowls as we know them are likely to die. A few that are well attended might stick around like the Holiday (and yes, maybe the Sun) but this glut of games is on its last leg I do believe,
      And btw, I wanted to enjoy the game too but Or St just had no one left.

      • 805Hawk

        At least my Christmas lights are down and the lawn is mowed. 🤷🏻‍♂️

        • Blitzy the Clown

          Just in time for the rain

  17. cha

    Jamal Adams ruled out for Sunday.

    Pete was just asked about him and said “He feels like this is the right thing this week.”

    Does that sound Jamal Adams at all?

    No. It does not.

    • pdway

      It may be that the whole ‘yikes’ incident was the impetus pete/hawks needed to do something that 100% absolutely had to be done.

      • Big Mike

        Rob assured me 10 days ago we’ve seen the last of the glass peacock in a Hawks uniform. It’s looking more and more like that’s going to be the case. Thank God!
        I’m not so sure the yikes incident was the last straw tho I’m guessing it contributed. The not showing up on the sideline/leaving for home when he found out he wasn’t playing (whichever it was) for the Philly game was I believe the last straw.


      • geoff u

        I think him publicly blowing off the Seahawks after getting fake reprimanded was the nail in the coffin. Bold move, Adams…

  18. pdway

    man, just no glee at all over how this Russell situation is playing out. I know Payton is a good coach, and maybe this is how it all has to be, but feels like such a shaming. I think i’d rather they do one of those bogus, but face-saving, strained hamstring fake injury situations than hearing all the details of how this has gone down.

    Russell isn’t what he was, but you could never accuse him of not working hard and trying to be his best. Sad chapter for him.

    • ShowMeYourHawk

      Agreed. I was glad when he went due to how much he was costing the team to lead us to middling results (not that much has changed) as well as the drama behind the scenes. I was delighted when the team stood to recoup high draft slots when his first year in Denver was a disaster. But the reports of the team threatening his tenure as a starter if he didn’t agree to removing the contracted injury guarantees that THEY offered him showcase a slimy and underhanded FO tactic that even a corny primadonna like Russ doesn’t deserve. He may believe in himself a bit too much for his current ability but no one can ever accuse him of being unprepared or not putting the time in.

    • Big Mike

      I think i’d rather they do one of those bogus, but face-saving, strained hamstring fake injury situations

      You mean like the Seahawks are doing with Adams? Wilson deserves WAY more respect than Adams and he’s getting WAY less. Payton wants the world to know that “underperforming” is on Russ not him. Frankly I hope he fails in Denver for the way he’s treated Russ. Like you said, Russ worked hard and wanted to be great. He deserves better.

      • Peter

        Yep to all that.

        When you’re qb has more total tds and less ints than Mahomes but you bring a #29th ranked defense on the field and blame the QB for losing I hope you fail.

  19. Palatypus

    I’ve been trying to make an AI picture of a Seahawks dartboard with player numbers and the words “cut”, “trade”, “sign”, and “draft” on it, but the Microsoft co-pilot keeps screwing up the spelling.

    Any help with this?

  20. Whit21

    Kinda funny article about the Bears should thank Pete Carroll for not trading RW in 2021..


    • cha

      Apologies for being that guy, but I feel compelled to remind people it was Dan Patrick that rumored the trade and it was “3 first round picks and two starters.”

      The article suggests Khalil Mack, Roquan Smith and Akiem Hicks were available which were assumptions, not facts.

      • Whit21

        Youre right.. i think the only player that was actually possible was Hicks.. but he was aproaching 30 or was already 30.. for what they got out if mack and smith.. its ridiculous if they were even suggested as options.. theres no way PC JS would turn that trade down..

        I i remember right.. it was later reported that it was hicks and one of their corners..

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