Why the Seahawks have had a great start to free agency

The Seahawks have shown great restraint on the first day of free agency. Despite creating a decent chunk of cap space, they’ve resisted the temptation to waste most of it on elite contracts for non-elite players.

Here’s where the Seahawks are. They don’t have a young franchise quarterback, drafted to produce hope and belief for years to come. They don’t have a top-tier difference making pass rusher. Until they find those two things, it’s absolutely pointless bringing in bad contracts to eat up your cap space. This is a team in transition and we just have to embrace it.

It might provide a dopamine hit to see they’ve spent $20m a year on a player. In two years you may well be looking at Over The Cap to see how much it’ll take to cut that player and whether you can live with the dead money.

This is the fools gold period of the NFL. The Seahawks have had enough bad contracts over the years. They’re constantly eating dead money for one reason or another. It was ridiculous that they ended up on the hook for $48.1m for Quandre Diggs and Jamal Adams and now they get to live with $31m of their 2024 cap going on both players to play elsewhere.

They are far better off looking for low-commitment, development deals at this time. Look at the work Mike Macdonald did in Baltimore. He got great seasons out of Jadeveon Clowney and Kyle Van Noy. He helped turn Justin Madubuike and Patrick Queen into top performers. The Ravens had to cycle through defensive backs and still found success. Geno Stone was hailed by the GM as Baltimore’s best ever seventh round pick — thanks to Macdonald’s guidance.

The Seahawks are better off letting him do his thing in 2024. Take a few low-cost shots. Make calculated moves. Maybe you can hit on some players you wish to extend in 12 months to longer, bigger deals? For now though, what’s the point in splurging?

Look at the guard market. Robert Hunt’s contract looks like it’s basically $20m a year. Kevin Dotson earns $16m a year now. That’s Dotson, by the way, who the Rams acquired for a ham sandwich a year ago. Part of Seattle’s problem in the trenches is a total inability to get players performing or elevating beyond expectations. Scott Huff needs to be able to deliver that, they can’t just throw money at the problem.

It’s also a fantastic O-line draft full of guards you can well imagine coming in and performing at a good standard quickly. That’s not just for the first two rounds either — there are attractive mid/late round alternatives too.

I’m not against spending. Getting Leonard Williams back on a reasonable deal for a soon-to-be 30-year-old non-elite player would be very welcome.

I’m not really bothered that Jordyn Brooks has signed for $10m a year in Miami. Again, he was only ever decent, not great in Seattle. Is that worth $30m over three seasons?

I’ll come back to my original point. Until you have the key facets of a contending team on the roster, free agency feels like a dance worth sitting out. The Seahawks are two years removed from the Russell Wilson trade. They need to identify a quarterback who can lead them to future contention and they need to go and get that player. They also need to do what the Chiefs and others have done and find a difference making pass rusher without picking in the top-five.

Every time I mention this, I’m obliged to qualify how difficult these two things are. I get it. But this is the only way to contend. You get a young franchise quarterback, you give them weapons (they have weapons), you give them protection (this needs work) and you need a game-wrecker on defense. If you can’t get those things, then you’re one of the many teams making up the numbers.

The first phase of free agency is just a wallet-lightening session for very rich people running NFL teams. The Seahawks’ priority has to be the draft. They need to find where that next Chris Jones or Maxx Crosby or T.J. Watt is lurking in this class. They need to ask whether any of these quarterbacks can be ‘the guy’ and if the answer is yes, it’s time to be aggressive.

In the meantime, Huff and Ryan Grubb need to put together a line and when you have the franchise QB in place — by all means spend away.

It’s all about the draft. It’s all about a quarterback and a difference making defender. In free agency, stick to looking for value and let your whizkid defensive coach elevate low-cost players the way he did in Baltimore.

EditThe Seahawks are re-signing Noah Fant. There’s definitely a player in Fant and hopefully the new offensive staff can get more out of a tight end. Very comfortable with this signing and the terms.

Edit #2Leonard Williams is also staying in Seattle. It’s costing $21.5m a year. I like Williams. Defensive tackle is a difficult position to fill. The market rate for a player of his level is about what he has received. I’m intrigued to see what Mike Macdonald can do with him. I don’t have a problem with this signing. And this stat, given he played in a bad defense last season, is encouraging.


  1. 12th chuck

    J Brooks headed to Miami

    • Sea Mode

      Would have liked to see if MM could unlock his potential, but I agree with JS’ approach here: pay for elite/plus players, not for average.

      Cameron Wolfe

      Dolphins 3-year agreement with former Seahawks LB Jordyn Brooks is for a base value of 3 years, 26.25 million ($8.75M/year), per source. Brooks can make up to a maximum of $10M/year on the deal.

      • swilliam67

        Are the two signed “elite”or just good. Somewhat concerned about the third contract signing and whether he can produce at the level of his salary.

  2. Danny Z

    I was surprised to see how little Geno Stone ended up signing for, and a Ravens division rival no less. Seems like a bit of an extended prove it deal to see of he can maintain that breakout success

    • Seattle Person

      I think it’s more of the NFL giving the middle finger to safeties than it’s being about Stone’s value.

  3. bmseattle

    I agree with all of this.
    There haven’t been any players signed so far, at deals that i would have been comfortable with.

    There really isn’t a good reason to sign anyone for big money when the likelihood is that it’s going to be a couple of years (if all goes perfectly… which it probably wont), until we are a contending team.

    The smart move is to fill as many holes as possible with our newfound cap space, and then have the freedom to do what you want in the draft, be it QB or BPA.

    • Rob Staton

      Agreed, there isn’t one contract I’m envious of

      • Elmer

        As you have said, in free agency one of two things is usually true. Either (1) the player wasn’t that valuable to his former team or they would have signed him or (2) you are going to overpay.

        So I agree. Pick your spots and find value in free agency. To that I would add, know which of your own free agents are really valuable and find a way to bring them back.

    • Zane

      The best thing for us now is to continue judiciously building a young, well-rounded roster while staying ready to pounce on a franchise QB.

  4. Erik

    Is it worth playing the comp pick game and just sit out? Look like 2 6ths for the TEs and maybe a 4th for Brooks. Another 4th if Williams walks.

    • Rob Staton

      They need to sign some players. They can’t sit it out until July

      But there’s a difference between taking on big contracts and wasting money and making calculated moves. That’s what they need to focus on. So far so good

    • Brodie

      LW might net a 3rd actually.

      Then when Lewis signs, they can get a guy. When Fant signs, they can get another. If Wagner or Evan Brown or DT sign, you can get others. Or they can be pre-emptive and assume some of those guys sign. IF they’re trying to preserve those picks.

      The problem I’m having is that there just aren’t many exciting FA’s. Devin White maybe. See if MM can turn some of that promise into production for Isaiah Simmons?

      I don’t think there is any rush to compete for the guys available right now.

    • Danny Z

      Do we still get one for Dissly even though he was cut?

      • cha


    • Factory of sadness

      Dissly was cut, so no comp pick possible for that signing.

  5. Blitzy the Clown

    This is the way

    So long to Brooks at $10m apy. No thanks. I’d rather fatten Leonard Williams’ offer a bit if they’re at an impasse.

  6. Patrick Toler

    Very happy with how things have gone so far. When we get more info on the structure of these deals some of them may look fair, but it certainly doesn’t look like we have missed out on anything.

    There are a lot of linebackers, safeties, and defensive tackles still on the board and it appears that there will be deals to be had there.

    I expect at some point they will make a medium sized splash signing or two, which is fine as long as they aren’t committing big money over multiple future seasons.

  7. Misfit

    N.Fant returns 2/21m

    • SEAinNYC

      That’s Jordyn Brooks money. Don’t hate the deal, wonder what guarantees are.

    • Seattle Person

      I don’t hate it. Now get another young TE in the draft to go with Fant.

      • Sea Mode

        Same here. Most upside of the 3 TEs we had. As Rob says, hopefully the new offensive staff can figure out how to use him properly. With cap inflation and the structure probably making the actual cost more favorable than the announcement tweets do, it seems like a good contract for the Hawks.

    • nfendall

      I’m interested to see what the guarantees are. He definitely has the potential to be a top 10 TE if he is utilized properly.

    • Patrick Toler

      Will wait to see the structure, but a 2/21 is unlikely to end up looking too bad. Certainly won’t sink us. We needed bodies at TE and this alleviates the fear that we would need to reach for someone in the draft. If we do draft a QB having a strong receiving TE won’t hurt either.

  8. Zane

    Hopefully Grubb has a clear idea of how to feature him. If he ends up with less than 500 yards again the next two years it will be hard to justify the contract.

    • Misfit

      Grubb must be thrilled he’s not going to have to start a developmental 5th round rookie at TE his first season with the team as OC.

  9. jed

    My favorite part of FA so far is that the most tedious people on Seahawks Twitter aren’t liking what is happening.

    • Big Mike

      That’s worth celebrating

  10. Matty B.


    Agree with pretty much every word…But is it not painful to watch in his prime Brian Burns (signed long term) get traded for the same price Schneider paid for a pending UFA L. Williams? It is to me….And I’d rather just have the pick back.

    Per your article (which I agree with 100%)…If now is NOT the time to “go for it” because there is no franchise QB in place…Well there was no franchise QB in place last season when Schneider traded for a soon to be 30 year old Williams.

    You have to hope that Carroll was driving that ship and had final say. Because if not then we will see more “Leonard Williams” (and Jamal Adams, Jimmy Graham, and Percy Harvin) trades going forward.

    • Mr Magic

      Thibs, Burns and Dex Lawrence, the NYG are loaded on the pass rush front now. THese are the moves solid GMs make, gotta give Schoen credit for this move. Its a lotta dough but the way in which pass rushers are getting paid and the rate of increase, for a 26yr old stud, its a good investment.

      Yes this woulda been a much better move than Leo Williams. Giants also had an extra 2nd rounder to move which helps.

  11. Mr Magic

    I like the Giants trade for Burns, hes a really underrated pass rusher to pair with Thibs, the Giants may have the best DE duo in the league now, and 88mln gteed to a 26yr old is a big ticket item but they now have both DEs locked in and youthful, that is a great move by their GM.

    What a shank by Carolina, they were offered 2 firsts by the Rams last year and didnt take it….

    • Patrick Toler

      Is Burns really underrated? He is quite good, and maybe his best days are ahead of him, but if the contract numbers are legit they will be paying 30m per year for a player who has topped 10 sacks once.

      He’ll need to turn into a legit great player for that to look like a good deal.

    • Patrick Toler

      And yeah – Carolina really screwed that up.

      • Mr Magic

        88mln gteed, that is what matters not the top number which gets moved all over the place over the next 5 years. It is a big pay no doubt, that is Nick Bosa money but your getting 95 quarterback hits, 59 tackles-for-loss, and 46 sacks in 67 career games for a 26yr old who hasn’t had major injuries and adding it to a stellar young unit thats signed for multiple years. Amazing work by their GM.

        • Peter

          I don’t know. They ( he) just gave jones a pile of cash and may be one year removed from that contract already looking for a new qb.

          • Mr Magic

            the dimes contract is over after this season, team has an out option with no further money, will end up costing em 2yrs 84mln in the end which is rough but its over after this year and they have that money to pay thibs.

        • Patrick Toler

          If that guaranteed money is getting you three years, that’s 30 per year. I don’t hate it but that is a lot of money plus draft capital for a player who has yet to produce like a superstar, on a team that is farther from contention than we are. Maybe it works out, but I’m okay passing.

          • Mr Magic

            well you invest in youth and the trenches, and that is what this move is, Burns is 25 and averaging 10 sacks and a helluva lotta pressures each season. You are paying him in his prime years. Definitely a gamble though and now the Giants are out of cap room and have zero if not negative talent on offense.

    • Commander Ga

      I’ve never been sold on Thinodeaux.

      • Commander Ga

        ThiBodeaux that is.

  12. Spenny Dunks

    Glad we brought back Fant. I’d like to see what he can do as the primary TE target. I liked Dissly and thought Parkinson had promise but it’s not worth finding out at that contract. No reason to have all that depth at TE if you’re not going to use it. Can easily find a blocking TE to replace Dissly. Additionally, the FA pool was looking scarce and the contracts given out so far reflect that.

    LB has more depth to sign some guys later on. We don’t need an overpaid mediocre talent like Brooks when I think we can replace what he brought with much less resources.

  13. bmseattle

    Fant is talented enough to expect him to live up to that contract, if given the opportunity.
    We, basically, had to sign *someone* in free agency at the TE position, and Fant makes a lot of sense. We know him, and he still has 1st round upside.

    • Peter

      Let’s just throw him the ball and that contract will seem fine.

      There’s Bowers and I agree mostly with Robbie on the pod but I’m not convinced that the BPA at #16 AND the team need plus value are all going to equal TE at #16.

      Bowers or verse?

      Bowers or Chop?

      Bowers or Fauntanu? Fuaga?

      • Patrick Toler

        If Bowers is there and you think he is a superstar than this contract doesn’t stand in the way of you drafting him. But you definitely don’t need to reach for a TE at any point in the draft now.

  14. Peter

    Locked on hawks thumbnail ( Corbin smith’s daily show) reads:

    Tough start: hawks lose parkinson and brooks.

    I used to think this way that FA was this race to sign as many spendy players as you could. But it’s the drafts and value deals chosen wisely that move the needle.

    Nothing against Parkinson. Hope he doesn’t bite Seattle in the butt when we play the Rams but what did we lose? Brooks? A guy who probably never played up to his first round billing and the tackles?

    • nfendall

      I wouldn’t have hated getting Brooks back on the contract he signed with Miami, but I’m also perfectly okay with not getting him back at that value also. That was basically the max value I thought Brooks was worth.

      I liked Parkinson too, but I’m happier to have Fant back on the 2yr/$21m deal.

      So far I am happy with the Seahawks FA approach.

      • Peter

        To be clear I’m not against Brooks. I’m just not gutted and I know folks are going to bring up the tackles and his grit to get back. Good things.

        I very much agree with Rob on the team and I’m not sure we’ve lost any lynchpins at this point for where the team will be in short while.

    • Sneekes

      I agree. Some people just don’t get the cap aspect of NFL. Yes, we’ll miss Parkinson at the price he was, but that was never an option. Fant, a serviceable vet and a rookie will likely be as good as Fant/Disley/Parkinson and hopefully cost a bit less.

  15. cha

    Ian Rapoport
    Source: The #Seahawks have agreed to terms with Leonard Williams, bringing back their star.

    • Gritty Hawk

      Let’s goooooooo

    • Big Mike

      Waiting for terms…

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Curtis-ed again!

      But seriously, this is fantastic. Waiting on the numbers

    • cha

      Ian Rapoport
      He gets a 3-year averaging $21.5M per year.

      • Dregur

        That’s not a bad contract in all honesty, compared to some of the crazy contracts other DTs we’re getting.

    • Sea Mode

      7s… lol cha come on 😄

      • Big Mike

        Quick drop McCha

        • BK26


    • Sparky

      A bit rich… Interested to see real numbers

  16. V

    Tom Pelissero: Once it’s done, it’s expected to be a three-year deal worth $64.5M (Leonard Williams)


    • Big Mike

      The real number will be how much is guaranteed however

      • Blitzy the Clown

        Doesn’t matter. Wilkins contract has $85m guaranteed. That’s more than Williams’ entire deal.

        We got a decent signing.

        • Misfit


    • nfendall

      That is a perfectly acceptable cap number, especially after seeing the Wilkins deal. I like it!!

  17. Charlie TheUnicorn2187

    Jeremy Fowler @JFowlerESPN / 5:26PM

    Sources: The #Seahawks are closing in on a deal with Leonard Williams.

    One of the top interior defensive linemen in the free agent class off the market.


    • Burner

      There’s Guards picking a similar bag to what we’ve just paid Leonard. Huge win for John Schneider.

      • Big Mike

        Good point

  18. Alex Potts

    After signing Fant/Williams, my best guess is the Hawks likely to currently have somewhere around 15-20 mil in effective cap space assuming expected restricted free agent signings and accounting for draft/IR

    • Alex Potts

      Needs on Defense: LB, S
      Needs on Offense: Backup QB, LG, depth TE

  19. Sea Mode

    I like that it’s 3 yrs and not 4 or 5. There’s probably a realistic out after just 2 as well.

  20. KJ Smith

    L Williams signed YES!
    Don’t know the terms

    • Prozach

      3 years, $21.5 million per year, $43 million guaranteed. Both the term and the money involved seem reasonable to me, good to have him back

  21. Misfit

    Big Cat back at 21.5/yr

    • Misfit

      3/64.5 w/ 43M gtd

      • Hebegbs

        That seems like a good deal for both parties instead of just one. I like it. I like the Fant signing. I like letting Brooks and Park go elsewhere too.

        Great start Hawks. They must be reading Rob and Cha! 😉

  22. Sea Mode

    Rob was, like the Seahawks, holding out on FA (posting article). Finally gives in and posts and minutes later two big deals are announced.


  23. Sea Mode

    Gross Ma Toast, where you at…? 😉

    (and, c’mon, how many edge rushers do the 9ers need…?)

    Ian Rapoport

    More edge help: The #49ers are signing #Panthers FA DE Yetur Gross-Matos to a 2-year deal worth $18M, source said.

    • Hebegbs

      Right? Why can’t they overpay for a safety or two?

      Seems like they understand what actually matters in football…

      • Alex Potts

        He’s an Arik Armstead-lite. An overpay if ya ask me.

  24. Sea Mode

    PFF SEA Seahawks

    Leonard Williams in 2023:

    54 QB pressures
    5.5 sacks
    11 QB hits
    76.2 PFF Grade

  25. Sea Mode

    So I guess the question is: would Williams have signed this deal with us in FA if we hadn’t traded for him…?

    • Jack Frost

      less likely

      • Sea Mode

        I have to agree. Of course, we can never know for sure, but I feel we probably would have had to overpay significantly to get him in the door.

      • Misfit


  26. A-ok

    It looks like they’re going to be running a wide open offense. They let their top blocking TEs go and kept Eskridge. I am thinking we’re going to see a lot of interesting things this year and having a vet like Geno in place might help them get rolling and also important given a QB isn’t guaranteed.

    That being said, we’re actually looking really well positioned to trade up. Not a lot of major holes, the cap is looking strong, and we kept all the right guys. If they can balance a trade-up by sacrificing extra 2025 picks and then get a few comp picks in return, it might be a pretty easy decision.

    I think that extra 3rd rounder in 2024 is a big key. It suggests to me the range of the trade up. I really think they’re looking at #8-12 at most and given what Rob has been exploring, I think there’s a guy they like who could hit that range.

  27. Dave

    I was curious to see your opinion on Fant. It felt like it was a little reactionary after seeing Parkinson and Dissly get signed. Parkinson was my favorite of the Bunch.
    Williams should make a lot of fans happy, I know I’m happy.
    Brooks was a player, I felt did some really good things. It was my hope he would stay. In the PC Era, it seemed the Seahawks had a Midas touch with cornerbacks. Based upon what has occurred with Patrick Queen and Roquan Smith in the last year and a 1/2, I wonder if McDonald doesn’t have a similar effect on linebackers. My hope is the Seahawks don’t spend big on this position and try to develop draft picks or players on the cheap.

    • Hebegbs

      I liked Brooks. Nice kid. Good recovery story. But paired with Wagner they were a huge liability in pass coverage. Which is where the league continues to go. I don’t see him at his contact level a loss at all. Love Wags too. But time to move on.

      Good for him ( Brooks) and his family.

    • Roy Batty

      Fant has a better blocking grade than Park, is faster and better at YAC. $3 mil more a year is fine by me. Especially with a guy like Grubb at the helm.

    • SeattleLifer

      I agree with Fant, a little bit of fear involved with his resign (no TE’s on the roster!).

      I know people point to his abilities but at the end of the day he’s averaged 450 yards and 2 td’s a season for us.

      Even saying the above I’m still okay with it as it’s just a two year deal and we have a new coaching staff which will hopefully get more out of him.

      • EmperorMA

        He has Geno Smith throwing him the ball. Fant is lucky to get even 450 yards. It his own YAC prowess that allowed him to get that much.

  28. Ian Heathrow

    I have no been able to keep tabs on things til just now. Came to the site to read Rob’s recap. I was beyond thrilled to see that they were sitting day 1 out and letting everyone else waste money. Felt like they were learning all the right lessons and following Rob’s plan to the letter! Then I his edit about Fant and was less thrilled. Then I read the user comments about Williams massive contract, and even less so. I know the team need players. But day 1 of FA is when players get signed to bigger than value deals. Unfortunate late day turn of events IMHO. Hopefully this be it for a while.

  29. SeattleLifer

    Yes very thankful we are playing things smart. I’m even good with having to plug holes mid to later onwards with just ok guys on short term deals, play Geno and take a year to let the coaches gel, see who really works on the roster and maybe have a meh season and get some draft picks that are a bit higher next year.

    To beat a near dead horse, wow with the Burns deal. Giants basically turn over our gifting of picks to them for a younger great DT and they make sure a contract is in place beforehand- the hits keep coming on the Williams trade. At least we wipe a little of the egg of our face with resigning him to an appropriate contract.

    Fant seems a fair bit of an overpay especially if you take his career numbers into account (which is usually the first thing agents are pushing for bigger contracts…) but I guess with no TE’s at all we had to make a move and at least they know what they have with him so hopefully the expect bigger things going forward although a two year deal isn’t exactly a huge confidence in player statement, but yeah we helped take of a big need so it’s fine I guess.

    • Mr Magic

      Fant apy is between dallas schultz and hunter henry, seems about right, and you have to respect the fact we had zero other TEs on the roster with a rookie OC coming in, big ask to throw out a random free agent and some rookies in the spot. This is a good signing and we will surely draft a TE.

  30. Palatypus

    What is the opposite of the Iron Price?

    • Blitzy the Clown

      Capital One

      Why? What’s in your wallet?

  31. cha

    This is guesswork off the back of a napkin, but I think the Seahawks have about $8-10m left of free, spendable cap room now.

    Started the day with about $53m
    Signed Fant and Williams -$20m ($33m left)
    ERFA/RFA tenders Wed Mar 13 -$9m ($24m left)
    Draft -$6.5m ($17.5m left)
    Practice Squad & injury buffer -$8m ($9.5m left)

    • Big Mike

      Devin White fits in there, yes?

      • Big Mike

        Maybe a vet Safety too?

    • Alex Potts

      I forgot about IR/PS…. I have 9 million too while guestimating on yr 1 cap hits.

  32. Mmr Magic

    Big Cat, Uch Nwosu, Boya Mafe, Dre’mont Jones, Jarran Reed, Cam Young, Derrick Hall, Mike Morris, maybe Darrell Taylor? While this may not be top 5 in the league it is not a bad starting point for a defensive minded head coach with a draft upcoming…

    Got talent in CBs and one good safety, clearly gaps there to fill but the right way, draft and wave 2-3 of free agency.

    Hard to be displeased with how its coming along. GOtta give the new admin a year at least to get the ball rolling!

    • Hebegbs

      Great post. Agreed 100%!!

    • Seattle Person

      Replace Darrell Taylor for Mo Kamara for me.

  33. Coach

    Yes, Devin White and Jeremy Chin please!

    I love this take from nfl.com on Chinn:
    If Chinn had been a free agent two years ago, he would’ve ranked in the top 30. Injuries and his linebacker-like skill set, which fell out of favor during his time under defensive coordinator Ejiro Evero, hurt Chinn’s overall value, and he ended up at No. 76 in my top 101. But the talent is in there for the right coach to bring out.

    I think McDonald is that coach!

    Both would bring speed, athleticism and attitude to our defense!

    Go Hawks!

  34. Gross MaToast

    Today in Alternate Seahawks News, where Pete Carroll never left, the team announced contract extensions for both safeties. All-Pro Jamal Adams has agreed to a five-year, $136 million deal that will take him through the 2030 season and All-Pro Quandre Diggs Diggs signed a four-year, $99 million deal that will keep him with the team through 2029. Pete Carroll said, “Jamal is going to try so hard to finally get right and get back to us at 100%. It’s heartbreaking that the kid has to effort like this, but, dang it, he’s a leader and we want him back here doing whatever it is that he does.” For Diggs, Carroll stated, “Quandre Diggs really sets the tone for how we play. Great locker room guy who should have about a 97, maybe even a 98, Madden Rating.” The team also announced that it has signed fullback Nick Bellore to a 7-year, $84 million extension.

    I’ve made myself nauseous writing this.

    • Wilson502

      I literally lol’d reading this 😂

  35. 805Hawk

    And there goes Lewis….4 years 53m. Crazy.

  36. OakleyD

    I have a sneaky feeling that MM can pull a Geno Stone out of either Jerrick Reed or Coy Bryant. Not saying we don’t need insurance and/or another body, but I don’t think it’s a MASSIVE hole either.

    LB on the other hand, another story……I realise I sound like Pete Carroll here suggesting we stick with 2nd tier players, but you need to give these guys an opportunity before you write them off imo

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