Why was John Schneider at the University of Missouri?

Time for some good old speculative blogging.

Seahawks GM John Schneider spoke with the media yesterday and was asked about the Percy Harvin trade. This is what he had to say:

“You’re talking about a person’s livelihood. We have to do what’s best for the organization, first and foremost. We had the support of our owner, which was huge. We had discussed it for a long time with our owner. For one reason or another, it didn’t work out so we had to be able to move forward. So, the Jets got real interested. It was the Thursday night game. I was actually at the University of Missouri, and we were just able to move forward. We played the Rams that weekend.”

Harvin was traded to the Jets on October 17th. The night before New York lost a heart-breaker to the Patriots 27-25. The Seahawks played the Rams in St. Louis on the 19th.

There’s nothing untoward about Schneider visiting Mizzou. Why not? Make the trip, head over to the game on the Sunday. It’s an ideal trip. The thing is, Missouri played on the road that weekend — at Florida on Saturday the 18th. So he wasn’t attending a game. This was a different kind of visit.

There are many reasons why a GM would make that kind of trip. I won’t pretend I know them all — I don’t. For all we know it could be something as trivial as meeting a former colleague. Or it could be background checks and research. There are several Missouri players of interest entering the draft. Shane Ray is tipped to go in the top-15. Markus Golden had a good 2014 season. Lucas Vincent is an intriguing later round possibility. Even if you’re not going after a top prospect like Ray, a little background info isn’t a bad thing for future planning. You could even be asking about players likely to enter the 2016 draft — like Harold Brantley.

And then there’s Dorial Green-Beckham.

For those not familiar with the back-story (most are so I’ll be brief) — DGB was dismissed by Missouri after a string of incidents. He opted to move to Oklahoma and ultimately sit out the 2014 season instead of joining a smaller school and playing immediately. Without taking a snap for the Sooners, he chose to declare for the NFL draft earlier this month.

Every NFL team is going to need to do substantial homework on DGB. It’s not just a case of checking in with the Oklahoma staff to see how he dealt with the situation. You need to go back to Missouri and get their take on it all. Was he kicked off the team as a wake-up call? An act of tough love? Or was it more serious than that? And what does the team know about the key final charge that eventually led to his departure?

We’ve gone through the Green-Beckham debate several times. Here’s the piece we did when he declared. Was Schneider doing the rounds, or working specifically to collect information on a particular prospect?

I think this is the best way to judge the DGB situation. If the Seahawks are willing to take him at #31 or #32, I suspect someone else will draft him earlier. He’s that talented. If he makes it all the way to the end of round one, it’s probably with good reason. After the Harvin mess the last thing the Seahawks need is another troubled receiver. With Russell Wilson set to become a $100m quarterback, you’d expect any receiver coming in would have to be ready to work with zero distractions. The anti-Harvin.

And yet if there’s one thing that makes this even vaguely possible — it’s Seattle’s need for a receiver with DGB’s rare skill set and size. But again — they’re not the only team with that kind of need. He’s a unique player in this class — he has the talent to go top-15 and the red flags to go at any point in the three draft days.


  1. Ben

    I’m really liking Sammie Coates recently. He’s raw, for sure, but he’s not just gym strong, he’s fast, good after the catch, and is just a great vertical threat.

    • rowdy

      Not a big fan myself. Drops a lot of balls and that’s not easily corrected if at all. For all his physical attributes they don’t seem to translate that week to the field.

    • Alaska Norm

      Too much of a project as a first rounder. If he falls to the second I’d be okay with that.

      • rowdy


    • Rob Staton

      There are things to like about Coates — athleticism, size, personality. But he’s just so inconsistent.

      • Ben

        If we trade back into the second round, about pick 40 like last year, would you take him there?

        • Rob Staton

          Probably not. I like a lot of things about him but the inconsistent hands scare me even in that range.

  2. TwistedChopper

    For some reason I didn’t make the connection to DBG when you first mentioned, but now that you do it makes a lot of sense why he might have been there. Now we just need to keep listening if he ever mentions that he was at the University of Oklahoma and maybe we can start connecting the dots!

    Also, I agree with you that I think it’s highly unlikely the Seahawks would take him in round 1. If he’s got red flags for every other team he definitely will for the Seahawks who seem to value a prospects personality and mindset as more important than some other teams. However, I don’t think this means that we couldn’t do a late round flyer on him. Yes, if every team passes him up in the 1st it means there are red flags. But we’ve seen guys with really serious injuries, but with loads of potential go in the middle to late rounds on teams that are willing to risk never getting anything out of it. The Seahawks might just be doing enough research to determine if his risk is worth a 3rd round pick, a 6th round pick, or DNT (do not touch).

  3. Volume 12

    One guy you left off the list who continually stood out to me when watching Mizzou this year was WR/HB/R Marcus Murphy(5’9, 195 lbs ). I know it’s probably unlikely and there is better options than him when you consider the type of football player he is, but he does possess a Percy Harvin esque skill set. He’s more of a mid-late round guy, but with his athleticism, it wouldn’t surprise me if he shoots up some draft boards if he turns in an eye opening combine.

  4. Alaska Norm

    Funny you should write this. I saw, or heard, the same interview a while ago. My first thought too, was why he would be in Missouri? I started looking for a mid-round or free agent gem that other teams might pass up on. The cream of the crop was too obvious. Hadn’t thought about the DBG connection but that’s a really good guess. You’ve mentioned it several times and unfortunately you are probably right. If he checks out emotionally, criminally, etc…. he’ll be gone long before we pick.

    • TwistedChopper

      I think one common misconception is whether or not he “checks out” is a yes or no answer. I think with any prospect you can’t be fully if they’ll pan out based off their background check, but I think in this situation the Seahawks are looking for more of a detailed answer than “definitely yes” or “definitely no”. I think the first thing they’d look in would be to see if he’s undraftable. If he’s draftable they’d need to decide where they should take him based on his risk. Obviously he won’t fully check out because come on the guys had nothing but problems. However, whether or not they think there is a 75% chance he has no problems in the NFL vs 25% vs 5% can make a big difference in where they would consider draft him. His talent would put him in the 1st round, so in order to move him down the Hawks would need to figure in what they thought his chance of panning out would be combined with his overall talent.

  5. Ho Lee Chit

    True! DGB is a talented kid with a history of selling marijuana. He was arrested twice. The second time he had a pound of pot in his possession. He also allegedly forced open a door and pushed a woman down a flight of stairs. I am not excusing what he did. I just think it is understandable. Keeping young men out of this type of trouble is what a father is for. Too, many young, men end up in college without the maturity or financial support to be successful. DGB is one of those. I was, too. I think when everything is investigated the NFL will take a chance on him. His problems stem from a lack of money.

    I have not been an advocate for pursuing a big WR. I will make an exception for DGB. He has lots of talent, speed and the ball skills to make a difference. If he is available when we pick in the first round, I cannot see the Hawks passing on him. They might even move up a couple spots to get him. The main question is: How badly does he want to be great?

    • Volume 12

      Isn’t DGB close with his father though? If my memory holds, I think he played for his dad during his High School years. I could be wrong though.

      • Ho Lee Chit

        He was adopted at age 13. I cannot say what his relationship with his new family is all about.

    • Attyla the Hawk

      “True! DGB is a talented kid with a history of selling marijuana. He was arrested twice. The second time he had a pound of pot in his possession.”

      This is kind of the hyperbole that needs investigating. Firstly, while he was arrested along with 2 other individuals in a car with a pound of pot in it, he was released after questioning and never charged. The story, which was confirmed by police, was that he hitched a ride across campus after a workout and the car was pulled over on the way. The driver and owner of the vehicle was charged and had a history of selling. I don’t recall if the second passenger in the vehicle was charged or not.

      These incidents have a real way of spiraling out of control and ends up a giant game of ‘Telephone’ where before you know it, he’s the second gunman on the grassy knoll. That’s why you put in the time and do your due diligence.

      The one thing I’d offer as to why he may last until #32, is the very real aversion of teams picking up a player with a quantifiable domestic incident already on record. He’s talented. His tape is also very limited. Even in his time at Mizzou, he didn’t exactly dominate on a regular basis. He disappeared for whole games. To take him at #1, you are looking at flashes of potential and then trying to apply them with a more consistent prospect. That might be tough to do. That takes a great deal of faith and ability to absorb potential bust.

      That’s something Seattle has shown in spades. Much more so than your average NFL team.

  6. CHawk Talker Eric

    Fun to ponder, but I’m dubious the visit had anything to do with DGB.

    Or, put another way, I’m not holding my breath waiting for him to be a Seahawk.

  7. rowdy

    I don’t think the Percy mess will influence them to much. Percy was a proven nfl player with mvp talk at one point. DGB is an unknown that was kicked of his college team. There’s plenty of concerns, I just don’t think Percy is one of them. Do you guys really see a rookie splitting a locker room?

    • Ho Lee Chit

      Since each position group has its own salary allocation and the WR group is underfunded compared to the rest of the league, I think it is likely we invest some money there. The loss of Harvin and Tate makes it possible to commit first round money to the WR group. Most teams spend between $10M and $20M on wide receivers. We are spending $5M.

      • rowdy

        Absolutely, and I’m not a big fan of paying big money for a FA

    • CHawk Talker Eric

      Doesn’t sound like you think much of JS as a GM. How could the Harvin fiasco not affect his decision making?

      It’s not entirely about locker room harmony. In fact, I’d argue that’s the least of it. Rather, it’s about investing tremendous draft capital (in this case the R1 pick) on a player with huge question marks.

      Harvin has the physical tools to be the most dynamic playmaker in the League. Sure, he had (has) some question marks, but man what an athlete! So JS ponied up 3 draft picks, including the R1, for him. And man, what a fiasco!

      I sincerely doubt JS would walk that same path willy-nilly.

      • rowdy

        How did you get that from what I said? The Percy fiasco has nothing to do with dgb. DGB has some bone headed mistakes at the age of 19, who doesnt? Selling weed is a petty crime and he was never charged in the other altercation. I never heard of a story of him quitting on his team, fighting teammates or throwing weights at his coach. I’m not saying there’s no issues but we would of never made it to a super bowl without players that had the same issues as him.

        • CHawk Talker Eric

          Rowdy, you don’t get booted from a major college football program for some boneheaded mistakes. There are SERIOUS question marks about DGB’s character and commitment.

          Also, Harvin cost SEA a R1 pick, for which SEA got precious little in return. In fact, at this point, they have nothing to show for their 2013 R1 pick. The reason? Harvin has major character and commitment issues.

          The 2 situations are pretty similar.

          • rowdy

            It depends on the coach, some coaches would do it as a teaching lesson. Peters got dropped from uw for violating team rules. Look at Oakman, kick of a team and now is the heart and soul of his team and is doing everything you could ask for. They could of made the Percy trade because lynch worked out so well, bet you don’t wish they didn’t make that trade. I think more then anything it would come down to what his coaches and teammates say about him. That’s what robs speculation in this article is about. Harvin was called a cancer before we traded for him, for all the red flags over dgb I’ve never heard him called a cancer in the locker room. The only negatives I heard about him have come from out side the facility.

            • CHawk Talker Eric

              Again, it’s not about locker room politics.

              It’s about spending your R1 pick on swinging for the fence. Sometimes you connect and hit a home run, other times you whiff.

              The 2013 R1 pick SEA sent to MINN for Harvin represents a whiff. So far, SEA’s first pick in the 2013 draft – CMike – is a whiff. Need I remind you that for all his physical talent, CMike is a whiff.

              And now, because of injury, PRich is also a whiff. How many whiffs should SEA waste with their R1 picks? How many drafts must they go without getting any return for their highest draft capital?

              • CHawk Talker Eric

                BTW, SEA could have taken DeAndre Hopkins with the R1 pick they gave up for Harvin 2013.

                Hopkins had 76 recs for 1210 yds and 6 TDs this season.

                In comparison, Baldwin, SEA’s most productive WR in 2014, had 66 recs for 825 yds and 3 TDs.

                And Harvin? In the 5 games he played with SEA, he had 22 recs for 133 yds and no TDs. 5 games is only 1/3 of a season, so giving him the benefit of the doubt and tripling his stat line still puts him behind Baldwin.

                Sorry for the double post. I meant to put this here not below.

                • rowdy

                  Tate also had similar numbers to Baldwin and is 1400 yard WR on a different team.I understand what your saying but the red flags that I seen reported about dgb don’t seem that horrible. They could be but they could just be juvenile.

              • rowdy

                And sometimes you use the #4 pick on the safest player in the draft and whiff, bruce irvin first 2 years was a whiff same with carpenter and golden tate. Dez bryant had red flags and was suspended a year, he’s an elite WR now.

                • CHawk Talker Eric

                  Irvin wasn’t a whiff. He may not have been the player he is today, but he played his rookie season (8 sacks).

                  Same with Tate. Not great at first but at least he played (and improved).

                  CMike on the other hand…

    • OZ

      I don’t think coming in as a rookie is a big concern for the Hawk’s.they have the locker-room to handle any sense of entitlement he may have,which I think may be the root of the problem. This will not fly in that locker-room, no way. I believe he will sit until he gets his head on straight,although I don’t think it will take that long, does he want to be great? I think so. Hey it doesn’t cost us a 1st.AND a 3rd for greatness.

      • rowdy

        Or 10 mil a year. That was pretty much my point. And how much entitlement can he have after being dropped from one program and sitting out a year.

  8. lil'stink

    Interesting speculation, but I think the bitter taste from the Percy Harvin debacle probably isn’t totally gone from the mouth of JS. You can’t fix stupid (among other things), a lesson Seattle learned the hard way with Harvin. There’s no way we should target DBG in the first 3 rounds. Our window for another Super Bowl appearance could still be wide open next year, and I like our chances even more if we don’t completely whiff in the first 2 or 3 rounds of the draft. I have no way of knowing how DBG will pan out, I just don’t think the apparent risk involved makes taking him on at this point in time a good idea.

    We need a deep threat as well as a big, dependable target. That’s great if we can find one guy to fill both roles, but I’d be thrilled for one or the other. Especially if it’s a rookie who can fill either role from day one. I’m still hopeful that Kevin Norwood can be a reliable possession type guy next year; and if we bring Zach back that could help alleviate the immediate need for another big guy (although I know he isn’t the same as a big WR).

    I know Dorsett and Lockett are probably more suited for the slot, but with the successes of other dainty receivers like DeSean Jackson and TY Hilton I can’t help but wonder if they could have that sort of big play impact from early on if they come here.

    • Rob Staton

      Even if I were to put any faith in the speculation I’ve created by writing this piece — I’d still chalk it down to due diligence on Seattle’s part. After Harvin, I think any receiver joining this roster is going to need to show he really loves the game. And that means not putting yourself in the kind of situations DGB put himself in.

      • Attyla the Hawk

        Honestly Rob, I kind of think John/Pete understand risk and aren’t necessarily put off by previous failures or think they are predictive of future failure.

        Yeah, it’s probably due diligence. But Pete and John both have kind of gravitated to players with home run potential early in the draft. DGB will have to show he loves the game. But I don’t expect that applies to putting yourself in those kinds of situations.

        Protect the team — that’s one of the 3 tenets of Pete’s philosophy. No doubting that. DGB will have to answer the questions the way Pete wants them answered. But that standard isn’t the same as other teams’ standards. That’s been shown already. Pete does love his reclamation projects, and when he picks them — it’s rarely ever evident that ‘the light bulb came on’. He seems to have a much more personal/real pulse on people’s failings and the ability to see past those in a way that other coaches and evaluators do not.

        I would not categorically think that because he slips with other teams, that means that Seattle will let him go. Seattle could just as easily take him early — despite the NFL having serious reservations about him — if nothing more than to use that as a tool to keep that chip of doubt on his shoulder to keep him motivated through his career to punish every team that passed on him.

        Pete and John are so ‘anti conventional wisdom’ that I can see them taking him even if he fails to impress in the interview room and seems too high risk. That’s just the kind of prospect that Seattle really seems to embrace.

        • CHawk Talker Eric

          Every “reclamation” project PC has brought to SEA is someone with whom he has a past – either directly as a coach or a recruiter. I don’t think he has any history with DGB,

          As for JS, I can only imagine how he felt went he went to Paul Allen and basically admitted he screwed up by trading 3 draft picks (including a R1) for someone who had to be jettisoned midway through the following season. Do you really think he’d put himself (or the team) in that situation again?

          And if JS were willing to do that – it must be because he thinks DGB is that much of a sure thing. And if he thinks that, I guarantee you other GMs will too, he’ll be drafted before SEA selects, and this whole argument is moot.

          There are so many talented prospects in this draft. Why on earth would you want the one who represents the biggest risk?

          • Attyla the Hawk

            “There are so many talented prospects in this draft. Why on earth would you want the one who represents the biggest risk?”

            I think it’s pretty clear in the last three drafts that this team doesn’t really care about risk. Not anything close to what we as fans might regard it as.

            Carpenter was considered a risk. Certainly not the safe prospect that Gabe Carimi was coming out. We didn’t want to pick at #25, but when faced with the reality we weren’t getting any trade options, we pulled the trigger. Recall we still needed a good cover corner and Jimmy Smith was still available at our pick. Dire need necessitated the Carpenter pick. But he wasn’t the safe pick at the time.

            Irvin was a huge risk. He was the first DE taken in a draft considered extremely deep at the position. We passed on Fletcher Cox at 12 (a player who would have filled our 3 tech hole in our roster extremely well). We didn’t have Bennett then. So we’ve passed elite prospects at a position of dire need before with our first pick on a high risk/reward player with great athleticism.

            Harvin was our first ‘pick’ the following year. We paid much more than just our first pick. That contract meant it was going to cost us Golden Tate the following year. Seattle was widely panned for the trade at the time. Harvin was an even bigger risk than DGB. Again, we passed on a lot of talent and even sacrificed some of the talent we already had on the roster in order to get a high risk/reward player with great athleticism.

            Last year, we picked Richardson. A player who also was kicked off his original team for criminal issues. We were going to pick him over significant talent at both OL and at the WR position. That was an epic year for WRs. With plenty of size/speed combinations that we covet. Richardson had both a criminal past and a knee reconstruction. Yet it didn’t dissuade us from taking him. Another unique high risk/reward player with great athleticism.

            I think the pattern is patently clear. JS/PC are clearly not risk averse. We are not afraid at all to make a spash move. Nor are we afraid to look ridiculous by having to cut bait with a costly mistake in embarrassing fashion. Seattle goes big and bold with their first picks.

            And I’m not inclined to really give risk arguments much credence because of the clear and persistent history of our first picks. It should be evident to every one of us. JS/PC don’t see risk like your average guy. And they don’t draft as if they are simply trying not to get fired.

            DGB is a possible home run talent. Possibly the highest potential prospect to come along for a big WR in the draft since they’ve arrived in 2010. And Seattle has shown the last three years running, that we strongly desire home run talent. And are also extremely comfortable with levels of risk that the rest of the NFL considers crazy.

            This FO doesn’t require a player to be a sure thing. In fact, the picks they’ve made have been everything but sure. If other GMs walk away from DGB — that only cements his candidacy even more.

            Ultimately, if he falls and other GMs aren’t willing to pull the trigger, Seattle is likely to covet that. A player who felt shirked by the league has an uncommon desire to prove people wrong. My guess is, that Seattle’s threshold for ‘sure thing’ is wholly incomprehensible to the rest of the league. If they think he has unique talent and he falls to us by circumstance of risk aversion by other clubs — he’s going to be a prospect that we like a lot.

            Simply put, Seattle cares the least about risk than any other team in this league. Their requirements don’t consider ‘safety’ in the slightest. That much should be clear based on the players we have selected to date.

            I’m not saying he’s a cinch to get picked. There certainly could be other reasons that he falls off our radar. But risk and the lack of a sure thing certainly won’t be those reasons. Criminal past won’t be either. If we want to argue that he won’t be a Seahawk, then I think we all should remove risk and background from the discussion. Or at the very least, make those arguments as ancillary reasons.

            • Ukhawk

              Risk over Ruskellology all day long

              JSPS track record of consecutive Superbowls stands up

            • CHawk Talker Eric

              Maybe we have different definitions of “risk”. Every prospect, from #1 to Mr. Irrelevant, carries the risk of – getting injured, not making the adjustment to the pros, etc., etc.

              The risk I speak of when discussing DGB is strictly about his character and commitment, NOT his athletic abilities or potential as a WR. In other words, non-football stuff.

              I don’t think Irvin was a risk. He was the top QB rusher in the nation his senior year, and for whatever non-football issues he came with, PC had history with him. That history minimized the non-football portion of risk associated with drafting Irvin

              I don’t think Carp was a risk either. He was an outstanding LT for one of the top college programs in the country. He started every game for “Bama in 2009-2010. He played 9 games his rookie year with SEA before suffering a season-ending ACL. I’m not aware of any non-football concerns associated with Carp.

              PRich went to Los Alamitos High School in Orange County, about an hour from USC. PC didn’t necessarily “recruit” PRich – USC never offered him an athletic scholarship – but then PRich had committed to UCLA pretty early. Regardless, PC knew PRich long before they drafted him 4 years later. Moreover, he was barely 18 when he was arrested on suspicion of stealing a purse on campus (along with 2 other incoming freshman footballers). I don’t know how that was ultimately adjudicated (was PRich convicted of anything?), but it pales in comparison to DGB’s repeated bad actions/decisions.

              Harvin on the other hand, had a boatload of risk – the kind of risk I’m talking about in regards to DGB. Maybe not in an illegal sense, but just in terms of that somewhat nebulous category called “off-field concerns”. Concerns with attitude, respect for authority, being a selfless team player, etc. SEA swung for the fences on him. So in that sense, you are completely correct that JS/PC don’t shy away from risk. But then, Harvin wasn’t entirely unknown to the coaching staff. Bevell had significant history with Harvin before SEA, and I will argue to the end that it was Bevell and his connection with Harvin, that compelled SEA to shoot for the moon on what arguably is the most physically dynamic player in the NFL.

              That didn’t work out at all. It cost SEA a R1 pick for which the team has zero benefit at this point.

              Also, it is an untenable position to say that JS/PC don’t care what the other FOs think, then say things like if “other GMs aren’t willing to pull the trigger, Seattle is likely to covet that” or “If other GMs walk away from DGB — that only cements his candidacy even more”. Either SEA cares what other GMs think or they don’t.

        • CHawk Talker Eric

          BTW, SEA could have taken DeAndre Hopkins with the R1 pick they gave up for Harvin 2013.

          Hopkins had 76 recs for 1210 yds and 6 TDs this season.

          In comparison, Baldwin, SEA’s most productive WR in 2014, had 66 recs for 825 yds and 3 TDs.

          And Harvin? In the 5 games he played with SEA, he had 22 recs for 133 yds and no TDs. 5 games is only 1/3 of a season, so giving him the benefit of the doubt and tripling his stat line still puts him behind Baldwin.

          • Volume 12

            CHawk, you make a great point in your first paragraph, in regards to PC and his connection with ‘reclamation’ projects.

            • Miles

              I am not gonna lose sleep over the Harvin trade. That trade representa the Hawks desire to compete in the off-season. Harvin was widely believed to be the most explosive player in the league and easily capable of MVP honors. If the Hawks by-passed the opportunity so they could get DeAndre Hopkins, an intriguing but unknown NFL commodity, what other kinds of similar moves would they make? I’ll tell you: they would have passed on Marshawn Lynch and they would have passed on Russell Wilson because they already had Matt Flynn. What we lost with the Harvin trade is massively outweighed by the amazingly successful philosophy that inspired it.

              • CHawk Talker Eric

                Dude you just made my point:

                “Harvin was widely believed to be the most explosive player in the league and easily capable of MVP honors”.

                Compared to: “DeAndre Hopkins, an intriguing but unknown NFL commodity”.

                So which is DGB? Is he widely believed to be the most explosive player, easily capable of MVP honors? Or is he an intriguing but unknown NFL commodity.

                • Miles

                  I think DGB is in between. He actually carries more character baggage than Harvin did, and although it’s unknown how he will play at the top level, there is a unique skill set that he has that makes him a home run-type prospect. He’s high-risk but high-reward. He compares easily to Josh Gordon but I think his ceiling is even higher. If there’s reason to believe there’s a different guy underneath all of his baggage, how could you not take a chance? If he turns out to drown in the pressure of the NFL like Gordon, I don’t know that the decision to draft him could be fairly condemned. He has the potential to be an unbelievable piece. Hopkins, for me, is not nearly as dynamic and more of a safe pick if you’re looking for a go-up-and-get-it kind of guy.

                  If, and that’s a key word, DGB seems to have a relatively good chance to keep his head on straight, how could you not take a chance? Especially if the alternative is getting a solid but lower-ceiling type player like Maxx Williams, I can see this staff throwing their hands up in the air and banking on DGB. Russell Wilson would have a field day with this offense if DGB reaches his full potential here.

                  • CHawk Talker Eric

                    On this we agree. DGB could be the shizizzle.


                    1. We’re basing his potential on one really productive college football season (59 recs, 883 yds, 12 TDs in 2013). He hasn’t played a down in over a year. Make that 2 years by the time he shows up for a training camp.

                    2. If there’s a relatively good chance he can keep on the straight and narrow, then he will be drafted before 31/32 because of that tremendous upside.

                    I’d like to compare DGB to Randy Moss (on and off the field), but Moss had 2 amazingly productive college seasons upon which to base his potential (78 recs, 1,709 yds, 28 TDs in 1996 and 96 recs, 1,820 yds, 26 TDs in 1997).

  9. kevin mullen

    Nice detective work there Rob, this is the type of rumor sniffing I just eat up.

    Reminds me of the Rice University and them scouting Luke Willson secretly when SF caught wind and drafted Vance McDonald in round 2 a couple years ago. Our locker room would have a ton of leadership (especially after a year we had) come next year and could see them putting DGB in check. Man, I’d love for this to be our next success story…

    • CHawk Talker Eric

      One of the best draft dupes ever!

      I have zero inside info, but I believe SF took McDonald based (at least in part) on an incorrect assumption JS/PC were targeting him.

      • rowdy

        I felt the same way when the info came out. I still make fun of the 49ers for it lol

      • Alaska Norm

        I think thats what kevin was getting at… they guessed wrong.

  10. williambryan

    “And then there is Dorial Green-Beckam” this is probably my favorite post by you ever Rob! Reads like a mystery novel haha.

    • OZ

      With a head-on straight DGB we would strike fear into the opposition!!!

  11. Clayton

    I wonder whether Seattle is done with the idea of a big WR. After Mike Williams got injured in 2010, he went on the IR for a while, and then in 2011, Seattle drafted Kris Durham in the 4th round. After that, that’s it. It’s a little bit odd that after three drafts, they did not draft one tall receiver (6’4″+). Could it be that Seattle saw Williams and Durham as failed experiments and saw better results with smaller, quicker receivers? Especially now that we have a QB that can put all of the throws right on the money, a bigger catch radius might be less important. Just food for thought.

    • OZ

      PC loved Sidney Rice. that’s been a element of their game that has been missing.

    • Ho Lee Chit

      I see your point. I don’t know that I would say they are done with the big WR. Rather I would say it is not essential. We have gotten by pretty well without one.

      IMO, DGB is such and exceptional athlete with size that he is appealing to me. Even if he was four inches shorter I would be interested in him. He can really sky for the ball, has break away speed and seems to make the difficult catch. He will command double coverage in the NFL.

    • Rob Staton

      I think if anything they realized mid-season why it’s such a big need (enquired about Thomas, Fleener, Cameron… spoke to TB about V-Jax).

      • rowdy

        True, I also think it had something to do with Miller getting hurt too

      • Alaska Norm

        One way or another you can bet Seattle will find a big reciever. Draft, FA, trade… PC has had a history of liking that sort of player. The last few seasons he has been without but I would guess that will change. TE or WR, either way I’m sure they see it as a need.

        • Steve Nelsen

          I think they might try to find 2 big targets, one TE and one WR.

    • rowdy

      I remember reading that suddenness is the first quality they look for and they just haven’t found it in bigger receivers that fit in with everything else they look for.

  12. AlaskaHawk

    They already have Mathews who made the one handed catch during the onside kick against Green Bay. I find it frustrating that we have so much talent that never sees the field. Mathews,Michael, to name two players who could provide an offensive lift. Will Norwood be used more?

    • OZ

      I have a feeling your going to see players making a contribution in this SB than you could have imagined. Seattle is not going to play it safe. Break out the big guns. Mathews,Daniels,Moeaki,and maybe CM…

      • OZ

        Don’t forget Coop!!!

      • Vin

        I like this. Throw the kitchen sink at the Pats. I hope we run a lot of ’12’ formations ( I think that’s 1 RB & 2 TE sets). I think that just gives our offense so many options as far as run/pass read option as well as protection. I just have a feeling that browner and Revis cancel out ADB and Kearse, so read option/ms and the TEs might be the extent of the offense. I so want this SB more than last years. I despise the Pats, Brady and Browner. And of course I want the Hawks to become the 9th team or whatever to repeat. Go Hawks!

        • Drew

          I hope we run the triple option with Russ, Lynch and Michael….that’d be hard to defend.

      • Phil

        I don’t understand this idea that the Seahawks are going to “break out the big guns” and somehow make big changes in their game plan and their players for the Superbowl. Why would they do this? Why would you change what has been successful? Why would you play “Mathews, Daniels, Moeaki, and maybe CM …” in the biggest game of the year when they haven’t played much up to now? Do we need to resort to some kind of secret weapon to beat the Patriots? Two weeks ago, in what was until then the biggest game of the year, with less than 5 minutes to play and behind to the Packers, did the Seahawks throw out their “normal” offense and decide that the way to victory was by using untested players? No, and they didn’t even give up on the run.

        Sure, PC will tweek the offense and the defense, but I just don’t see him opening up the playbook and relying on untested players in the Superbowl.

        • AlaskaHawk

          Mathews was rookie of the year with the CFL. He just made one of the key plays to win against Green Bay, with a one handed catch in traffic. Everyone says we need a tall red zone receiver. Why wouldn’t we use him in the red zone?

          • Phil

            Because PC and Bevell have decided not to use him in the red zone. The point is that we have made it this far without much contribution from Mathews. I don’t see why we think that all of a sudden that should/will change.

            • AlaskaHawk

              Maybe it is because the offense has had trouble in the red zone all year? That they barely beat Green Bay and only because of the play of Mathews? Why not reward him? He is the big receiver we have been looking for. If he wasn’t useful they wouldn’t have stashed him in special teams.

              The seahawks did create a new look in last years superbowl with more fly sweeps. With two weeks to practice, why not bring in some new players and routes? We have to replace Richardson with somebody. Only Baldwin and Kearse are productive as receivers. Willson is occasionally productive. I think we have every reason to expect a greater role from receivers who haven’t been used much yet.

          • Volume 12

            One reason they may not use WR Chris Matthews in the red zone is, this could just be a rumor, I’ve heard RW does not like to throw the fade route. As stupid as that sounds, maybe he feels like he’s just not there yet.

            Even when we had WR Sidney Rice, I don’t remember any fade routes. It was deep shots down the seam, out patterns in the end zone to the sideline, shots in the back of the end zone, or double moves over the middle.

            In the 3 years that I’ve watched RW as a professional, off the top of my head, I can only re-call a coupe times he’s thrown the fade. Once to Braylon Edwards, the failed attempt to Doug Baldwin this year in KC, and I’m sure there’s a couple more.

    • Rob Staton

      There’s probably a reason why they aren’t used more.

    • SunPathPaul

      I hope Norwood has some surprise plays for the SB!!

      It is frustrating to have C Michael and see potential, but not know why he doesn’t play more. Lynch is my guess….not his lack of talent.

      I hope Wilson to WILLson kills it in SB 49!!!!

      If we had another TE that was solid, like Maxx Williams, then watch out. Zach is great, but on his way out…

      • OZ

        We have Tony and Coop…..Don’t underestimate our TE’s when healthy.

        • CHawk Talker Eric

          Moeaki is just a body. Coop is decent 3rd team TE.

          But point taken about their being healthy. Miller is about as good as it gets for SEA’s offensive scheme when he’s on the field.

      • Colin

        He can’t hold onto the ball. That’s why he’s getting zero post season carries and may never ever become much of anything here.

      • OZ

        We have Tony and Coop…..Don’t underestimate our TE’s when 100%’ Expect to see a lot of double TE sets.
        Go Beast-Mode!!!!! First half only of course then open it up in the second half….

      • Phil

        For what it’s worth, my take on why we don’t see more of C. Michael is that PC doesn’t trust his ability to run the read option with RW. I don’t have the stats to back me up, but every time I see CM enter the game instead of Lynch or Turbin, I immediately think to myself that if I was the opponent’s defensive coordinator, I could ignore the threat of the read option. If I am right, then using C. Michael instead of Lynch or Turbin restricts the Seahawks offense and I’m pretty confident that our opponents are aware of this.

        Having said all this, C. Michael’s yards-per-carry is still impressive.

        • Madmark

          There’s more to it than just the read option. I remember reading an article in the middle of 2011 when Lynch was not doing so good and he sat down with Tom Cable to learn more about this ZBS they have setup. Shortly after that his numbers took of because he understood where he was suppose to be going. For some reason I don’t think Michaels has Lynch’s football I.Q. to pickup the program as fast.

        • CHawk Talker Eric

          Haven’t we discussed problems between RW and CMike in running the zone-read?

          I remember hearing that CMike always wants the ball, such that he won’t let RW make the read.

  13. Vin

    Rob, assuming you’re right about JS checking into DGB, and assuming they’re not worried about his past affecting his future, do you have any indication as to his type of personality/mental make up? We’ve all heard the stories about how the players they look at have to a certain mental make up and have to be able to handle/mesh with the other Alpha males. Talent alone won’t make this team. Basically, as a football player, do you have any sense as to whether he’ll be PO’d for greatness? Or are we talking about another Josh Gordon?

    • rowdy

      Great question, I been wondering the same thing. For all his red flags I’ve never heard anything about how he is in the locker room and practice.

      • Attyla the Hawk

        One thing worth noting, is that Seattle could be getting a first hand account of how he was as a team mate from Justin Britt. Recall, that Michael Bowie was brought on board largely thanks to Russell Okung’s endorsement of him while both were at Oklahoma State.

        I’m guessing Seattle will have a crystal clear picture of him in the locker room without having to get it from coaches.

  14. bigDhawk

    Deion actually brought up a good point in his showdown interview with ADB today. He intimated that teams stack eight in the box to stop Lynch because we don’t have a ‘grown man’ on the outside that defenses have to worry about as well. The thought of a Lynch/Wilson/DBG-ish triple threat on offense makes me want to retain Lynch for multiple seasons more than ever, just to see something like that in action. Of course, Harvin was supposed to create that grown-man triple threat for us this year, but he was not a true outside threat that forced DC’s to choose how many defenders to commit to the box on every play. DBG will be an interesting story to follow this draft.

  15. Mike

    I don’t buy the idea that if the Seahawks would be willing to take DGB (or Gurley, who you’ve said a similar thing about) then he would be gone before then. I get the logic, that their talent dictates a higher draft pick if everything checks out. But it just takes one team, and the Seahawks have proven that they will go after a guy even if the general consensus disagrees (see Irvin and Carpenter, for example).

    DGB could be viewed by teams as a major red flag, especially in the do-good era of the NFL. It’s also possible that teams view his struggles as the inevitable growth of an 18-22 year old. There will be no guarantee with him and most teams are risk averse with their first round selections. At the bottom of the first though? Why not swing for the fences?

    With Gurley, his injury makes him a short and potentially long term risk at a position that is becoming increasingly undervalued.

    Yes, in a vacuum their talents dictate an earlier selection. In today’s NFL I would be unsurprised if both are available. I’d also be surprised if we past up the opportunity.

    • OZ

      Right-On Mike!!!!

    • Ho Lee Chit

      I think it entirely possible DGB is available late in the first round. Last year was also a good year for WR’s. Only five went in round 1. The big guy, Kelvin Benjamin was the last one off the board. This year we have several others that are considered to be RD 1 picks. They are also big (6-3). DGB could easily last to the end of the round and be the fifth WR taken. Because last year was so good for WR’s, teams know they can wait until rounds 2 or 3 and still get a good one. The need for WR’s is not nearly as high as it is at other positions such as DL. I expect the WR’s will stay on the board longer while teams stock up on pass rushers.

      College DB’s have no chance against DGB. You can see on film the DB does not even look for the ball. They are intent on tackling him after he catches it. With DGB on the field the FS has to double cover. That leaves the rest of the field in cover zero or pulls the SS out of the box. We have seen what Kearse and Baldwin can do in 1v1 coverage. Put Luke Willson, DGB, Baldwin and Kearse on the field together and the defense has to commit to preventing the deep ball while Marshawn goes Beast Mode against only five defenders in the box.

    • mattk

      Great write-up, Rob. The only part I don’t agree with is the thought that if DGB would be worth selecting to the Seahawks than he would be worth drafting higher to another team.

      If we view each player as an investment, we have to consider the risks vs the return of investment vs cost. In the case of the DGB, each team will have to formulate at what point is it acceptable to invest in him. To each team, these three variables will be different. In some cases, only small shifts, but it’s those small shifts which would allow DGB to be to high an investment at #25 for example, but worth the risk at #32.

      I hope that makes sense. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the Seahawks free agency plans.

  16. Alaska Norm

    Rob, if they were both availible who would you take? DGB or Funchess? Both big, athletic, lots of potential but both with issues. Just curious on your take. Thanks

    • Attyla the Hawk

      DGB and it’s not close. Funchess can’t play ball. He’s just awful

  17. CC

    So what does the Mizzou o-line look like? Britt was a surprise pick last year – maybe he was there looking at someone not on our radar.

    • OZ

      Like the tackle that replaced him?

    • Volume 12

      OT Mitch Morse and C/OG Evan Boehm are 2 names that come to mind. Boehm may be a JR.

    • Phil

      If JS was looking at someone other than DGB, why would he visit when the team (and presumably the player he was interested in and the coaching staff) was in Florida? I guess JS could be talking with a player’s on-campus friends or family, but I think that’s unlikely.

      The same question could apply to DGB — why would JS schedule a visit to the school knowing that the team and the coaching staff were going to be on the road? One thought that immediately comes to mind is that JS wasn’t interested in talking with anyone associated with the team. So, maybe he was there to talk with campus police or someone involved in the investigation of DGB’s past transgressions. Fun to speculate — my hat is off to Rob for trying to put the pieces together …

      • Ho Lee Chit

        I doubt the Missouri team was on the road at the time of his visit. Their game was Saturday and he was there on Thursday. It seems likely they did not leave until Friday for their game in Florida.

  18. Johnny

    The Josh Gordon fiasco will put DGB completely off some team’s draft board. This could potentially play into Seattle’s hands depending on how JS AKA the Wizard of the Emerald City wants to play it.

  19. Jeremy

    One thing we know about Seattle is they are all about competition. They are seemingly in on every opportunity to upgrade the club whether through the draft, free agency, the trade market, or in the produce section of a grocery store.. Last year, they were in on DeSean Jackson and Jared Allen as a couple examples. I have no doubt that JS and team will have a complete feeling on DBG, what the risks are, how likely he is to repeat. I would also think they will learn from their mistakes and that they are smart enough to take each situation along with its own unique circumstances.

    I remember watching the 1995 draft and really hoping Seattle would take a certain defensive tackle from Miami who had been busted for smoking pot. Instead, the Seahawks took Joey Galloway and Warren Sapp went 3 picks later. If DGB is more Lawrence Phillips than Warren Sapp, it’s a no go. If he’s more Rae Caruth than Randy Moss, also a no go. I’m confident in this front office who has hit on an extraordinary number of their acquisitions and cut bait quickly when things weren’t working.

    • Ho Lee Chit

      The kid has not played football for a year. What kind of shape is he in? Does he love to work out or is he sitting in front of the TV? The combine should tell us whether he has the dedication to be a Seahawk WR. Jerry Rice was famous for his five hour workouts. That is why he lasted 20 years in the NFL.

  20. Cysco

    I seriously doubt that any investigation into DGB is going to yield a definitive yes or no on him. It’s far more likely that the results are going to show that he’s a kid with questionable decision making, maybe some anger issues and possibly some issues with authority.

    The real question, as Rob’s pointed out, will be how dedicated he is to football. The only way to find out that is to talk to former coaches and teammates and by having Pete talk to him 1v1.

    Because DGB is likely to fall into a grey area, it’ll be a risk vs reward decision for teams. I would assume that any team that considers themselves a “rebuilding team” will determine it’s not worth the risk. After all, a team like Washington, Jacksonville, NYJ etc. need talent, but really can’t afford to miss on their #1 picks.

    I think that leaves teams that could afford to swing and miss on DGB. There aren’t a lot of them and two of them are playing this weekend.

    • john_s

      Seattle also does personality and psychological tests. I am sure that will weigh a ton in to DGB.

      A guy similar to DGB was Da’Rick Rogers, not the exact same situation, but Rogers was rated by some as a pre-season top 50 player in the ’13 draft. He failed multiple tests and was booted from Tennessee, went to Tennessee Tech where he had a really good year. Tested out great 6’3 / 4.5 40 / 39′ vert but he went undrafted.

      I could see a similar thing happen to DGB depending on his interviews and his mental evals.

      • CHawk Talker Eric

        There it is

      • Volume 12

        John, you took the words right out of my mouth. DGB is going to have to pass those personality and psychological tests with flying colors.

  21. El Calvo

    You guys don’t pay attention….JS has eyes for Marcus Golden as a Gino Atkins type DT. Look how often the Hawks rebrand players from their original college positions.

    • Volume 12

      So in your opinion Markus Golden has the frame to add 25-30 more pounds?

      • Rob Staton

        Personally I think that is virtually impossible.

        • Volume 12

          Totally agree.

  22. Madmark

    Seattle isn’t afraid to take a risk on a player if the rewards high enough. When we were looking for a RB before Lynch traded we brought in a Lendall White who was a bruising RB who played with PC for a 4th round draft pick. He lasted 3 days in training camp and was gone. If Harvins had been more of a team player instead of a stat whore, he’d still be here playing in his 2nd Superbowl. Why not go down see why they let DGB go and latter asked the young man what he thinks happened then compare the stories to get a better picture of what truly happened. After all 6’6″ WR are not a dime a dozen. While I’m down there, I’m sure I’ll be asking about a few sleeper prospects that I might be looking at in the later rounds. Who knows I might find that Gem of a pick in the 3rd round at 75.

    • mattk

      That article brought up a good point that I think is missed on a few people here, including myself. DGB’s been practicing at OU, so there should be less concern about him “taking a year off” from workouts and training. I would expect a good workout at the combine.

      • CHawk Talker Eric

        The article is stale. It’s over 3 months old. Heck, even Jay Norvell isn’t at Oklahoma anymore.

        Also, workout and training isn’t much of a concern for a top flight athlete like DGB. Lack of playing time, both in practice and in real games, is. And he hasn’t had any of that in a long, long time.

        • CHawk Talker Eric

          Also, it was written long before DGB declared. When Norvell made those comments, it was still widely assumed DGB would play for OK in 2015. It’s pretty much a puff piece.

        • mattk

          Just mentioning that point for people that think he’s been on his ass this whole year. I agree the comments from the coach could be fluff.

          The good thing is that he’s training and developing in practice. Maybe not at game speed but just working on route running in 1-on-1s or in the film room is a step forward. You don’t need live reps to get better at your craft, so if anyone considered him a first round talent while at Missouri they have no reason to think he shouldn’t still be. At least talent-wise.

          • CHawk Talker Eric

            Talent-wise, he’s at the top of the WR corps in this draft. Based on his 2013 season, he’s pretty much the red-zone target SEA needs – 12 TDs on only 59 recs. That’s pro-bowl level production.

            He’s a guy I hate to love.

  23. CHawk Talker Eric

    Does anyone else think this is a red herring?

    Why would JS specifically mention visiting Mizzou while answering a question about trading Harvin mid-season?

    Even if he felt compelled to mention where he was when the trade went down, why not just say he was in STL to play the Rams? That would have been sufficiently accurate. Why be so specific?

    Is this like Rice U and the TEs McDonald and WIllson? Is JS trying to project an interest in DGB when he really is targeting another Mizzou player? Or another player entirely?

    Awesome stuff to ponder whilst I wait for Sunday afternoon!

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