Pete Carroll speaks to Shaquem Griffin, part of a draft class that deserves more credit
Not everyone has been overly positive about Seattle’s 2018 draft…
Mel Kiper — C+
“I could practically hear the Seattle fans in Dallas wondering why the Seahawks waited so long to address the O-line.”
Andy Benoit — C
“Drafting a running back is an odd way to kick off your massive rebuilding project on defense.”
Chad Reuter — C
“No corners or receivers selected puts Seattle in a hole at those spots after the draft.”
Pete Prisco — D+
“I was not a big fan of trading up to take a punter (Michael Dickson) in the fifth round.”
The consensus outside of Seattle is the Seahawks had a bad draft. The perception is they failed to address three vital areas:
1. They didn’t spend another high pick on the offensive line
2. They didn’t draft a cornerback early
3. They didn’t draft any weapons for Russell Wilson
It’s easy to dispel all three complaints.
1. They didn’t spend another high pick on the offensive line
Here are the recent high draft picks they’ve spent on the offensive line:
2014 2nd round pick — Justin Britt
2016 1st round pick — Germain Ifedi
2016 3rd round pick — Rees Odhiambo
2017 2nd round pick — Ethan Pocic
2018 3rd round pick + 2019 2nd round pick — Duane Brown
The Seahawks have used more draft stock on their offensive line than any other team in the league bar Dallas. And so far, that hasn’t been a solution.
They actually need to develop some of these players.
For example, had they spent the #18 or #27 pick on a left guard this year, that likely would’ve meant benching Ethan Pocic or cutting recent signing D.J. Fluker. Pocic was named to the all-rookie team in 2017 despite playing less than a full season. Fluker, with vital experience in new O-line coach Mike Solari’s scheme, has an extremely team-friendly cap hit of $1.36m in 2018.
Trying to actually develop Pocic is a better proposition than replacing him with the 2018 version. Replacing Fluker feels like a poor use of resources.
You could argue, why not draft a tackle instead to replace Germain Ifedi? It’s a fair argument to make, although this wasn’t a good draft class for tackles. It was a far better draft for interior offensive linemen. The chances of finding a solution were limited. The Seahawks also like George Fant a lot and he’s set to compete with Ifedi to start at right tackle.
No right minded individual would argue the Seahawks O-line doesn’t need major work. It does. But that doesn’t necessarily mean more youth, inexperience and repeating the same plan that hasn’t worked so far.
The addition of Solari to replace Tom Cable is the key here. A fresh approach, a new voice, a scheme tweak or two. Perhaps simplifying things for certain individuals and allowing them to best utilise their physical talents.
The Seahawks aren’t short of highly drafted, high-upside players. What they’re short of is consistency, proper communication, execution and guidance.
It’s time to develop the players they’ve already invested in.
And a final point on this — if the complaint is they didn’t spend a high pick on the offensive line this year, well, they did. They spent their third rounder on Duane Brown (plus their second rounder in 2019).
2. They didn’t draft a cornerback early
It’s strange that this is still a ‘thing’. Pete Carroll has been in charge of the Seahawks for eight years. He’s spent one early pick on a defensive back (Earl Thomas).
Here are the players they’ve brought in and developed without spending high picks:
Shaquill Griffin — R3
Walter Thurmond — R4
Kam Chancellor — R5
Richard Sherman — R5
Byron Maxwell — R6
Jeremy Lane — R6
Brandon Browner — CFL
DeShawn Shead — UDFA
Justin Coleman — trade with the Patriots
Bradley McDougald — FA
Carroll has a proven track record of defensive back success that, for some reason, goes mostly unnoticed. Suddenly Richard Sherman is cut and the Seahawks have to change their ways. They have to spend their first pick on a corner.
Why?
Especially considering they re-signed Byron Maxwell during the draft.
Maxwell finished off 2017 strong, making the PFF Week 17 Team of the Week, with a game grade of 90.3, and allowing just 0.32 yards per cover snap that week.
Get individual game grades and signature stats with ELITE:https://t.co/KP0oBOBJQH pic.twitter.com/t6zsOn2GXu
— PFF SEA Seahawks (@PFF_Seahawks) May 3, 2018
This is one of the big benefits of Seattle’s scheme. They’re able to draft a profile, teach their technique and find success. The scheme doesn’t call for a big investment in the cornerback position, as highlighted by Michael Lombardi a year ago:
“I think Seattle really thought twice about paying Richard Sherman. They felt they had to when they won the Super Bowl. Now their cap’s kind of a mess and they need to fix it so I think the reason they need to fix it is because they put all that money in the corner position in a defense where, we feel you can draft players that fit that scheme.
“… the scheme in Seattle allows you to find corners, especially size/speed corners, of which there’s a bundle of them in this draft, that can play deep third of the defense, they’ll tackle and they can play within the scheme.”
They haven’t needed Patrick Peterson playing across from Darrelle Revis. The creation and success of the Legion of Boom is evidence of that.
It would’ve been more surprising if the Seahawks had spent an early pick on a corner. It would’ve been a major change in their approach to the position. Instead, they drafted a defensive back with size and length in the fifth round in Tre Flowers. Just like they’ve been doing for the last eight years.
If you know the Seahawks, you know how they handle their business at corner.
3. They didn’t draft any weapons for Russell Wilson
The Seahawks lost ten touchdowns when Jimmy Graham signed with the Packers. They lost six more when Paul Richardson joined the Redskins.
In response they drafted a blocking tight end and signed Arizona’s Jaron Brown.
How on earth are they going to replace the lost touchdowns?
Well, it might not be as difficult as it seems. And it all comes down to the running game.
While Graham was prolific in the red zone, his production mostly filled a significant void. Seattle’s running backs only scored ONE touchdown in 2017. They had four rushing touchdowns in total — three from Russell Wilson and one from J.D. McKissic.
Even the Miami Dolphins, who also scored four rushing touchdowns, had three from Kenyon Drake.
Graham’s production didn’t compliment the running game — it replaced it. It had to in 2017 — but it doesn’t have to be that way going forward.
If the running backs can start to produce at even a modest level, the lost touchdowns will be replaced.
Let’s propose a solution to replace the ten scores:
Jimmy Graham -10 touchdowns
Rashaad Penny & Chris Carson +6 touchdowns
Will Dissly & Ed Dickson +4 touchdowns
It’s not unrealistic to think Penny and Carson will manage six scores between them. It’s quite a modest total. It’s also realistic that Dissly and Dickson could combine for four touchdowns.
If the Seahawks can fix their running game — they could/should be able to actually top the lost production from Jimmy Graham.
Here are the stats from 2011-14:
2011 — 15 rushing touchdowns
2012 — 16 rushing touchdowns
2013 — 14 rushing touchdowns
2014 — 20 rushing touchdowns
2017 — 4 rushing touchdowns
If they can get back to the relatively modest 2013 total of 14 rushing touchdowns, that will be an improvement of ten scores. Exactly the amount they need to replace Graham’s production. Considering they’ve spent the off-season focusing on fixing the run, you’d hope that was achievable.
As for Richardson’s six touchdowns — Jaron Brown actually scored four for Arizona in 2017. A repeat of that production would get you almost there. Tyler Lockett should also be set for a boost an extra year on from his severe broken leg. He only scored two touchdowns in 2017 but had six as a rookie.
It’s also emerged they’re meeting with an old friend. Brandon Marshall nearly joined the Seahawks in 2010. Now he’s once again reportedly visiting the team.
Should they have drafted a receiver? Bob McGinn quoted one personnel man as saying:
“This is the worst wide-receiver draft I’ve seen in my life”
And really, it’s about more than just replacing ‘production’ and ‘stats’ this year.
It’s about culture.
In 2017 they scored 38 offensive touchdowns. They might score less in 2018 and be a more competitive team.
They lost their identity. It’s been MIA for two straight seasons.
When Jim Mora was the coach in 2009 the lack of culture, identity and a clear plan was a major issue. What were they trying to do? Who were they trying to be?
It was a stark contract to the Holmgren years.
Pete Carroll immediately rectified this. As soon as he took the job in Seattle he set out his vision, called on the players to ‘buy in’ and created the clearest identity imaginable.
That laser-sharp focus took the Seahawks to their first Super Bowl Championship.
They lost their way. They lost a focal point of that identity — the running game.
And for all the laboured hand-wringing about the importance of running the ball these days and the value of running backs, the Seahawks were at their best when they ran the ball well to compliment their defense.
It created a bully-mentality. The Seahawks were physical, in your face. They intimidated teams.
Bigger, faster, stronger.
There are different ways to win in football. There’s no ‘right or wrong’ way of setting up your team. The key is to know what you want to be, then make it a reality.
If you want to throw the ball 50 times a game that’s fine. Build your roster around that approach.
If you want to run the ball and play defense, that’s just an alternative.
Seattle set themselves up to be the run and defense team — then had to try and be the passing team when the running game collapsed.
That was the problem. They couldn’t be true to their vision. They lost their identity, the culture, the toughness.
They weren’t bigger, faster and stronger any more. They were just broken.
Fixing that aspect was the key to everything moving forward. And that’s what they’ve done with this draft. They’ve added a running back they saw as the second best to Saquon Barkley. They added the best blocking tight end in the draft. They have a new O-line coach and offensive coordinator. They signed Ed Dickson and D.J. Fluker.
This was all set up to fix the running game as a priority. As it happens, they were also able to add a pass rusher and improve their special teams.
They pretty much ticked off every ‘need’ box along the way, especially if you include Duane Brown as part of this draft class (and you should).
That doesn’t mean this draft will necessarily move the needle for the Seahawks to improve on 9-7. That’s not the argument. I’m not sure, with one pick at #18 and nothing else until #120, they had the ability to achieve that. They didn’t have multiple early picks like the Colts or Giants.
The point is, this class (along with their work in free agency) should help regain their culture and identity. They’ll be able to return to the highly competitive atmosphere that fostered the initial Super Bowl charge.
They’ll be Pete Carroll’s Seahawks again.
And if they can run the ball better, if Russell Wilson continues to perform at a high level, with Bobby Wagner, Earl Thomas, Frank Clark and others on defense — they can be competitive in 2018.
It might only be a more palatable 9-10 win season rather than a Championship year. But at least they’d be heading back in the right direction.
This draft class helped turn the corner. And for that reason, it deserves praise and not criticism.
(Not that the critics will bother the Seahawks. If anything, this is exactly the type of reaction they wanted. Keep that fire burning).
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I would point out that it’s not enough to simply replace Jimmy Graham’s touchdowns. They also need to replace Paul Richardson’s six. And that gets them back to the 2017 total – which we all agree wasn’t enough.
They need something more like 25 more touchdowns, and they are relying now on guys who will have to be schemed open by Brian Schottenheimer. I don’t put a lot of stock in draft grades, and I roll my eyes at their takes on the OL and CB positions. But I think they have a point when it comes to weapons.
I did mention in the piece Richardson’s touchdowns. He had six — yet Jaron Brown had four with Arizona and Tyler Lockett had two last year (vs six as a rookie). So there’s scope to make up both Graham and Richardson’s production.
They’re also meeting with Brandon Marshall so might not be finished there.
When Seattle was at its best they had ‘pedestrian’ receivers looking to prove a point. No flash, just lots of guys that fit their mentality. I think it’s a good thing they’re back to that now.
There are so many young receivers on this roster. I would be surprised if one of them didn’t take a step forward. Marshall would be a nice addition to an already full group.
^^Agreed. They invested in WRs in last year’s draft, and now have 2 young guys with a year under their belt. Plus they acquired the kid from Philly in the Bennett trade.
I am not worried about the WRs (assuming they stay healthy) as long as they field a balanced offense.
Pass blocking will improve with a running attack as well. Last year teams could pin their ears back and rush all game like it was 3rd & long.
Jimmy Graham may have had 10 TDs last year but that was all he did for this team. He couldn’t block for the running game and he sure wasn’t fast enough to stretch the middle of the field. Ed Dickson on the other hand can definitely help the run and I betting he’ll surprises people with opportunities now to get into the passing game. It’s not like he got the chances in Carolina because Olsen was on the field for those passing downs.
I’ve gone back and looked at some Arizona games and if they had a better QB Jaron Brown would have easily had numbers equal to P rich. The difference here as I see it, is we are paying less for the same type of production. Will Dizzly could be that TE we been looking for since Miller. He’s going to improve the blocking for the run game and from time to time get a few opportunities for some catches. If you improve the run then you will improve the pass. The play action pass will come into play more like it was when we did have a run game and the pass went for more chunk yards play.
What I’ve seen with the OL is how can you build continuity if you keep moving players from one position to another each year. Lets take Britt started at RG, next year LG and then Center the next year. Ifedi started at RG and then next year RT. George Fant started at RT then he was at LT before he got hurt. You can’t keep moving young player around and expect them to get better at there position. This is year to let Mike place the guys in his scheme and let them play a year and them if you have to let him get the guy he thinks he needs next year to improve the OL. I also believe Rees Odhiambo will not make the roster. He’s been injured the last 4 years if you count his college days and just don’t have the faith he can stay healthy.
I give this draft a B grade. They did what they set out to do and they were able to do better than I thought due to shortage of draft capital. In fact its because of the limited numbers of pick I just couldn’t give them a higher grade. I still think we haven’t really lost a step. from what I see. The offense will get better and the defense will take a step back but this is still a 9/7team, maybe even 10/6 if we actually fix the FG kicker problem.
>Jimmy Graham may have had 10 TDs last year but that was all he did for this team.
That’s always been a weird sentiment to me. What else are players ultimately here to do if not provide touchdowns? Run blocking is done ultimately in the service of getting touchdowns. It isn’t done for its own sake, as if it provides points on its own.
It’s because not every play is designed to throw Graham the ball in the end zone. Sometimes we need run the ball two yards for a first down and Graham not blocking on that play means he’s not doing anything. There’s more to football than standing in the end zone waiting for the ball, and the Seahawks have always tried to flex multiple uses out of players. Graham’s lack of blocking ability was relevant on more than one occasion in the 2017 season.
I gave them a B to B+ also. They took care of business this year. Unfortunately the GM and previous trades screwed them out a full draft. And that lingers for at least one more draft. Not to mention there is no room in cap space.
Regarding Grahams production, I think it has more to do with whether Russell Wilson will throw to the receiver or not. He didn’t throw to Graham as often for the first year (or two?). Finally decided to throw to him and let Graham block out and fight for the ball. I don’t think there was anything special about Graham in the Seahawks Offense. Any big receiver could have matched his production if they simply would have thrown to that receiver in the end zone.
I am hoping they will pass to the running backs coming out of the backfield this year. It puts the ball in the hands of a highly skilled runner, and usually with some space around them.
Hmm. I wouldn’t characterize it that way. We didn’t have a 2nd rounder this year because of trades that ultimately got us Duane Brown. With that second rounder we could have drafted a guard who may or may not have made the team – but we have plenty of guards. We needed a tackle. JS got us an All-Pro. But we could have used that draft stock to draft a tackle… nope, not this year. There were really only two draftable tackles in this year’s draft, and nobody is predicting franchise LT or Hall of Fame for either of them. They were just the best this year had to offer in a dismal year for tackles. And they were both off the board before our pick at 18.
Too many people look at draft picks as gold. And while it’s true you can find gold in the draft, the draft is really prospecting. You find some gold, but you also find a lot of rocks you have to toss out that just looked like gold. JS spent some draft picks for a chunk of gold that had already proven itself.
I like the post someone put up with this years adjusted draft, with Duane Brown slotted in right behind Rashaad Penny. Looking at it that way has merit because that’s what the Seahawks got for their 2018 draft picks.
Duane Brown maybe has a single season left. He was already degrading, when the Texans traded him. This was a trade in “win now” mood, as well as Sheldon, a last try to keep the train rolling and give the LOB a last run to the SB.
We cannot dispute the merit of this. It didn’t work out.
But they have to prepare for a Brown-less OL. I think, by selecting a LT in Jamarco Jones, they did just that. The earlier he plays, the better.
I don’t think that is the situation at all. Drafting Jones isn’t preparing for life after Brown (who easily could play at a high level for another 2-3 years). It was an opportunity to draft a player who fell due to a horrendous combine, while providing some extra OL competition.
Jones might not even make the cut.
Great points Rob. I for one am excited about this draft class. If we get the run game working again, that opens up play action, and that is where this offense really gets explosive. It makes the receivers and RW more dangerous. This division is getting more competitive, but so are the Hawks with this draft. Looking forward to watching the camp battles this year! Once again, it seems like the o-line is the key…
Think a lot of it comes down to conventional/received wisdom and the insularity of football punditry. A lot of the complaints make sense from a broader perspective, but just end up highlighting the lack of specific attention the commentators have paid to the individual teams.
These guys are going okay, the Hawks lost a top-5 cornerback in the league, it’s an important position for their scheme, and they have a profile they like for that position. Here’s a talented guy who fits that profile – why wouldn’t they take him early? Hawks fans are shrugging because Carroll is arguably the greatest DB coach ever, and they don’t need the most immediately ‘gifted’ player. They need a guy who fits the profile and can be coached up. You don’t need to spend the high pick in that situation. It’s a similar story with the inability to see how fixing the running game also helps rebuild the defence.
There’s a thought process, but it’s both shallow and depressingly linear. Football writing on a national level is in a very ordinary place at the moment. There’s maybe a handful of guys worth reading at best.
The pundits gave Seahawks a pass on Malik last year. This year they aren’t going to give Seahawks evaluators any latitude.
I give this draft an A or even A+ for the potential the rookies will bring. Clearly if the potential does not pan out, the it ill be an F but hey ho.
I agree. Based on potential alone I give them an A. However, it would be equally to grade them an F if everyone sucks. But, not really sure how insightful this take is . . .
Considering their lack of picks, I have no problem with that grade.
I also love the pick of the punter. If he is a top 5 for the next 10 years, that 5th rd pick (plus the 7th to trade up) is going to be brilliant.
This is exactly why you can’t grade a draft this early! None of these guys have played a down yet and everyone is trying to grade whether they will turn out to be great or poor picks. It will take three years before we know if this was a great/good/moderate/poor draft. We can only hope that some of these picks develop into the next generation of Seahawks stars!!
These draft grades seem to be issued based off how closely a team followed a grader’s 10 minute (time invested) mock.
So well stated. Just an all around great piece.
I’ve learned to not put stock in what the national guys think about Seattle’s draft. Just look at 2012 when they took Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner and Russell Wilson and everyone gave them D/F grades. All the national draft pundits just see a league worst offensive line, so they think Seattle should OL should be a top priority on draft day. It’s lazy analysis IMO. Same can be said for the perspective on CBs. Any analyst worth his salt should be able to identify PC/JS strategy to building a defensive backfield. Again, to knock Seattle for not addressing this with a high pick is lazy analysis.
Overall, I think national draft analysts can’t really seem to make up their minds on what determines a good draft. They seem to preach the mentality of drafting BPA, but then if a team doesn’t address their consensus biggest need with their highest picks, they get knocked for it.
Anyways, I could talk about this all day. Bottom line, I love what the Hawks did in the draft and this blog (Rob is the best) does an A+++ job of breaking down why it was a great strategy.
Go Hawks!
Yup, lazy analysis indeed.
Just remember these are the same pundits that put Maurice Hurst as a first rounder in almost every mock draft, yet all the teams didn’t jump on “this year’s #2 DT” until round 5.. Really if they knew even the ABCs of the Seahawks game they would know better than to project a DB as a first rounder unless they also had some truly freaky athletic traits to go with skill.
Rob,
Another well thought out post. One thing I have been thinking of lately as a potential annual post is to do an end of season comparison for players the Hawks drafted and other players you reviewed in depth with predraft assessments. It’ll be interesting to see how prospects we’ve reviewed in depth perform in the first, second, and/or third year in the league.
And if we’d taken Oliver at 18 or 27 they would have still graded us low because it was a “reach pick” at a need position.
This brings up an interesting point. So there was what, maybe 10-12 players in the draft with legitimate 1st round grades. Therefore, most of the players drafted in the bottom half of the 1st round would be considered “reaches”. Seattle wasn’t going to get a good grade from anyone no matter what they did.
The good news is you get one free article that practically writes itself every year swatting down the talking heads on TV. Side note, I’m probably more excited about Poona Ford then I should be, looking forward to your write up!
I think Rob Rang gave us a B. He has covered the Hawks in the past.
“I was not a big fan of trading up to take a punter (Michael Dickson) in the fifth round.”
So, you weren’t a fan of giving up a seventh, Pete? Really?
Never mind the fact that two other punters went in the fifth round, and Dickson was leagues ahead of them.
I actually thought that was a great pick!
I think he was the steal of the draft for Seattle. I see him as being a difference maker for years to come; something that you rarely hear about a special teams player, much less a punter.
A few yards of extra field position on punts + ability to pin opponents inside their 10-20yd line on a consistent basis is very much worth the pick for Dickson. Not to mention, when he gets the job there is a couple million of savings in cap space. = Great pick in Round 5. (Dickson was projected by many as a round 3/4 prospect.) Might even qualify as one of the best picks in the draft.
Me too, love the guy He will be a huge asset.
If Pete Prisco hates the pick, we might as well start measuring Dickson for his gold jacket now.
Awesome pick if he’s even half as good as advertised. We can also save $2mm in cap space by releasing Ryan, and get better production. A no brainer to give up the 7th rounder if they thought Dickson was gonna get picked before their next turn. How many 7th rounders are likely to make this team anyway?
Brandon Marshall may not be the receiver he was, but he would still most definitely be a big red zone target.
+ 1 almost as big as Graham who was basically a big WR.
He is an under rated blocking WR…. which should account for something in the equation.
I was hoping for Dez to take that role, but Marshall would it fill it nicely I believe
I’m absolutely against Marshall on this team he looked terrible last year when he was healthy and able to play. Drop a lot of passes just was not what he was years before.
It’s hard picturing Marshall having much impact if he was signed. He’s old and slow now. He can also be a pain in the @$$, much like Dez. No thanks! Let the young guys fight for the 2-3 available spots.
1st round selection of Penny and Punter selection is most criticized. But I love both selection and in both case it has been proved to be best choice by Hawks. After Penny’s selection RB were all gone in next 10 selection. After Hawks selected Punter 2 more left the board in 5th round.
What if NE selected Penny, same pundits would have seen as a Master stroke. Bias media, I’m happy to see Hawks getting D and F from them that means JS/PC has done good job.
I bet Penny will one of the top runner and Dickson will be top punter who will win games. A 5th rounder able to contribute in first year plus saving 2 Mil is GREAT.
Go Hawks !!!
Yep! Even if the Hawks had had their original 2nd and 3rd round picks they would have been left holding the bag if they didn’t spend their first pick on it. They read the RB market in the draft perfectly and got exactly who they wanted.
They also read the class for TEs capable of blocking and the punter class perfectly as well.
I thought they worked the draft great. The only place where there may be some question if they got their guy would be a Sam Hubbard/Rasheem Green conversation. And even there they got the much higher ceiling.
I don’t know that the Hawks read the RB market perfectly. JS was working the phones hard to move down again, but the offers he was getting were in the back half of Round 2, not the middle or top. I think if he’d been able to pull off the trade down he wanted, Penny would have been gone, Chubb would have been gone, and so would Jone III and Guice. I think it was more a matter of fate smiling on him, than reading the RB market.
I think his read, as well as most on this board (me included) was that Penny’s name wasn’t really in play before the draft (no one tipped their hand ahead of time). I think JS thought he’d be there in the middle of the 2nd, and in the back half of that upper tier of backs, not the front runner. Because we couldn’t find a trade partner, things fell just right for us.
The “experts” draft grades look similar to the 2011 and 2012 draft grades. So I just get amusement out of them.
I hate the term, “rebuilding.” It doesn’t fit what the Seahawks are doing.
Refocusing seems more appropriate. When PCJS came in here they established a tone. An attitude. Granted Marshawn Lynch was a generational talent who personified our identity, but the key was establishing a run game, week in and week out.
Rob had mentioned that drafting Christian Kirk would have been a indication that our offensive philopophy was more Air Coryell than Ground and Pound. I think having a strong run game and letting Russ play off of that is way more of a sustainable approach.
Love this draft. I know they won’t all be starters, but I see value and agree with the vision.
Great piece, Rob!
I still think they’ll use an offense akin to Air Coryell. Running the ball and PA was integral to AC. I don’t think they’ll ever be pure ground and pound. Pete loves explosive plays and likes to take shots. They’ve always had an offense utilising the deep pass.
Plus Russ is a great deep ball thrower. I think Locket could have a big year in this scheme.
He lost his deep ball last year. It’s a sneaky issue to keep an eye on
Since he picked up injuries two years ago it seems like his long ball has been off. Would love to see some statistical analysis on the topic.
I wonder if it is a result of getting hit so much in the pocket?
He seemed to throw up more “prayers” last year that got picked off.
… or a product of having no pocket and no time to let deep route develop. The last couple of years have been about running for his life and trying to find anyone open before he gets killed.
I think it’s a reach to state he lost his deep ball last year. He was the 5th rated deep ball thrower in 2017.
Just a remark but…The”Air Coryell” offense calls for a lot of speed and talent of the WR corp and a moving Joker TE. (It was developed for (Charlie Joiner, Kellen Winslow, Wes Chandler Chuck Muncie)
It worked wonders for Gibbsat WAS too when he had The Hogs providing endless pass protection for WRs Art Monk, Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders.
At this point in time it is hard to credit the Seahawks with a great pass protecting OL or a stellar fast WR corp or a great Joker TE.
The “west coast offense” was developed to counter the need for all that offensive talent by shortening the routes etc. As Welsh said – “The Coryell offense required more talented players, a passer who could get the ball there, and men who can really run—a lot of them,” , “[Coryell] already had the talent and used it brilliantly.”
I am not so sure which of those similliar discelineswould better suit of roster…it may be a bit more “west coast offense” the “Air Coryell”…
They have a LOT of speed at WR now.
It really is laughable that there are professional NFL reporters calling Seattle’s draft class a failure. I mean, sure there are 32 teams to follow at any given time, but to have so many football experts express a disgraceful level of ignorance pertaining to Seattle’s off-season needs is pathetic.
“Experts” are all a bunch of cut & paste parrots, few, if any do ANY research into team needs, not to mention doing any actual research in their “player evaluations”. Draft grades are the most stupid aspect of the draft.
Great writeup Rob and I agree 100%!
I actually think 6 TDs for Carson and Penny is quite low. I think it is quite possible with the new offensive scheme and renewed focus on the run game that the combination of Carson , Penny and Prosise could easily account for 10-12 rushing TD and 4-6 receiving TDs as a group.
I do think the one glaring hole on the roster is a big red zone target and I am certain that is why they are kicking the tires on a guy like Marshall who despite his age and injuries knows how to use his body and length in the red zone to score TDs. I think if his head is in the right place he could be a nice replacement for Graham in that red zone role.
Marshall used to school sherm like no one else back in the day. I’ll keep saying it, him or dez would be a great addition as a RZ weapon if the salaries and attitudes we right.
Superb article.
Speaking of touchdown-replacement, I listened to a podcast today with Texas coach Tom Herman. He insisted that Dickson was “ the only guy I’ve ever seen at that position to be considered quote-unquote ‘a weapon,’ and he was.” He also called him one of their best defensive players due to his ability to punt the team out of a hole or pin an offense deep.
How does this relate to TDs? The further an opposing O has to drive, the more chances the D has to get the ball back to Russ and Co with favorable field position.
Good that we have added some speed to ST so that Dickson does not out kick the coverage. Need a good gunner or two.
Part of his appeal is that he usually gets significant hang-time so as to not out-kick his coverage. But when the O is pinned deep, he has the ability to consistently launch 60-65 yds, coverage-be-danged
Imagibe trying to catch a ball that seems to be hanging in the air for eternity, and is also spinning and moving around in the air. And then when you do catch it the heat seeling missile that is Shaquem Griffin is about to hit you at full speed.
Sounds pretty terrifying to me.
Brandon Marshall
Thumbs up or thumbs down?
Bit too much personality for what they’re after. Better player than Dez though
I believe Marshall has significantly “toned-down” after diagnosing and receiving treatment for some mental health issues
I actually like his personality and see him as a fit with the hawks. Doesn’t seem to have the same ego as when he was with the bears (I liked him then too though). Not sure he has as much juice left as Dez at this point but he is a much more savvy route runner. I think dez is the better player (now) though.
Dez will want too much money and is a problem the hawks are trying to avoid.
I think Marshall will be a lot cheaper, and could be a big receiver they need, especially in the red zone.
Not much speed left, but he is big and savy, could help teach Darboh and Moore a few “big WR” tricks
He did pretty well against Sherman when he was with the Jets, until Fitz kept going there and got picked off twice.
No I completely agree, I’ve always been a fan. But he is working towards a post playing career in the media. He’s going to talk, and I think that’s exactly what they don’t want.
Dez is seriously washed up though. I’d probably take him on vet minimum, but not much more than that.
Good point. Definitely not “all ball”
I’m a no. Its time to develop the young guys we have by getting them on the field.
Thumbs down! Prefer Darboh or McEvoy as a big WR, red zone threat, jump ball guy.
I’d prefer anyone over McEvoy
Yeah he was fun for a second but he isn’t more than a gadget guy. I would much prefer to see him cut in favor of another receiver, i think we’ve squeezed what we can from McEvoy.
When the Hawks won the Superbowl, they had a “pedestrian” receiving corps. I remember how pissed off Doug Baldwin got when hearing that. With that in mind, let’s hear a rounding call of “Pedestrian!” (Do you hear that Doug?)
Yeah. Aside from Penny who I have misgivings about but open to be proven wrong about, I like this draft and FA. I love the coaching changes most of all.
I think Running Back Christine Michael was a failed brick in the RB wall. A 2nd round draft pick that never panned out that was supposed to continue the rushing attack along and after Marshawn.
So reportedly Broncos execs laughed when the Hawks drafted Dickson
Mario Vetanze
@MileHighMario
Multiple sources are telling me that the individuals in the #Broncos war room “literally laughed out loud when the #Seahawks drafted a punter after trading up with Denver”
The same team that just signed a punter (albeit a good one) to a 3-yr deal worth up to $7M.
Dickson over 4 yrs will average $687k per. (2.75M total)
^^burnsauce right there
So reportedly Broncos execs laughed when the Hawks drafted Dickson
Mario Vetanze
@MileHighMario
Does anyone has video clip / Youtube URL? heard lot about it want to see
They won’t be laughing when they see him play in the NFL.
Imagine what he could do at mile high altitude. :O
I laughed out loud when their “all time” unstoppable offence got absolutely shackled in SB 48.
👌🏼
They won’t be laughing after Dickson is the key to a hawks Week 1 victory in Denver!
Same FO that gave the Seahawks a 3rd to trade up 5 spots and take Paxton Lynch.
Galaxy brain operatives over there in Colorado
haha Good call!
The Broncos have been garbage since Peyton retired, and most of that is due to their front office drafting. This last draft was better, but it’s easy to nail a draft when you pick in the top 5.
The Broncos have actually drafted pretty well this year.
Week 1 will be the ultimate test ob whether “our guy” was worth more than a third rounder RB, plus another one or two 4th our 5th rounder’s (which would have been a handy WR, like Berrios, Ateman, …).
It’s unfair, but that’s how the pundits will hammer Penny for being drafted a little too high. Pretty much to bear for a young man.
Also don’t sleep on the 2016 class just yet!
This is a great point. Despite the Malik bomb, there are most likely two guaranteed starters (Pocic, Griffin) and another who will get starter reps for sure (Jones). If one of the two WRs make a second year leap to contribute that’s a pretty good class.
The thing that bugs me the most about all the pundits and their grades is the thought that the Hawks “reached for X player at X draft spot.” To me that is the dumbest thing they could possibly say. Just looks at RBs for example and how widely panned the Penny pick is/was. No two pre-draft rankings had the exact same order of RBs. It was Barkley 1, then anyone of 4-5 others at 2, etc. None of them, however, have insight into the Hawks ranking or desired qualities outside the basic physical profile they have gone after in the past. They also all have their own opinions on what makes a RB better than another. Ronald Jones is better because he is more of a home run threat. Or Guice is better because eh runs more angry. Or whatever the reason may be…
So outside analysts with their own prejudices and biases decide the Hawks reached for Penny because he wasn’t the next best ranked RB on their board. But had they take Guice at that spot, this analyst would call it a great move. Or Jones and that one likes it. Its asinine to me that they grade based on how they see the players. THERE IS A REASON THEY ARE ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN AND NOT MAKING THE PICKS THEMSELVES!
Hawks stayed true to their board and got guys where they thought they could get them. They’ve talked before about getting too cute and missing out on their top guy (and now we have an Ifedi problem….). I’m glad they stuck with to their guns and picked the guys they wanted, where they wanted them.
Draft pundits are pretty worthless after the first 15 selections in my opinion, and up to that point the draft board basically picks itself. Some of them provide some insight on the players themselves, but in terms of predicting team needs their mock drafts are a waste of time. It has taken this site years to hammer down Pete/JS’s vision, and even then we get thrown some surprises… I don’t expect Joe from _____sports.com to really understand anything about Seattle in the hour or two they spend looking at the hawks.
Someone over on The Ringer did a piece about them – Roger Sherman maybe? Basically said that the mock drafters get about four or five picks right in the first round, and then maybe one or two in the six rounds after that. It’s complete guesswork, they literally have no idea. The grades are pure ego.
I love the story about the Broncos war room supposedly laughing at the Seahawks for trading up to take a punter. I’m sorry, but didn’t they trade up for a QB who will never start for them? Didn’t they sign Case Keenum? They got really fortunate that Manning signed with them otherwise they would have had very little to cheer about the past 6 years, and Elway might have been gone by now. That’s not a team who gets to crow about anything. Oh yes, 43-8, and thanks for Earl Thomas!
I think what would be the icing on the cake is when the Seahawks and Broncos play Dickson destroys the Broncos field of position the entire game.
I’ll be honest. I’d be just as happy if Dickson never had to punt at all.
Ryan had to punt 92 times last season. 92. Only 2 teams had more punts. And they both picked in the top 3 in the draft…
But if you think about it, having a great punter -> better field position exchanges -> shorter fields -> fewer punts.
I have a different view of it, same as what even Dickson’s Texas Coach described as more of a defensive position. Continually pinning the opponents deep in their own territory will dramatically increase the difficulty of having them driving the field and score points. It would in theory also get you closer to the goal like for you to score, but the majority of the impact will be defensive.
How discouraging it is going to be for opponents to stop the Seahawks deep in their own territory (when it happens), only to have Dickson “corn-hole” a rocket inside your 10 year line and then have to look at 90 yards ahead of you to get to the goal line . . . hahaha gonna love it!!!
And also beat them by 30.
I’m getting a #49 jersey, this dude is gonna be an ass kicker for years to come.
Looks like all the cap hit numbers have finally came in for the free agents the Seahawks have signed. Here they all are for 2018:
Offense:
Jaron Brown…$1.78
Ed Dickson…$1.86
DJ Fluker…$1.37
Mike Davis…$1.24
Austin Davis…$720k
Sea Bass…$1.7
Defense:
Bark Mingo…$2.55
Brad McDougald…$3.33
Tom Johnson…$2.1
Shamar Stephen…$2.08
Byron Maxwell…$1.8
Justin Coleman…$2.9
Dion Jordan…$1.9
Marcus Smith…$1.4
Dontae Johnson…$1.3
Mo Alexander…$720k
Offense…$8.67 million
Defense…$20.08 million
Total…$28.75 million (about $1.8 million per player)
Value!
Only if they all come good!
Too add on to this, Brady Henderson of ESPN just released our undrafted free agents who received signing bonuses:
Jacob Pugh – $15,000
Khalid Hill – $12,000
Eddy Wilson – $12,000
Poona Ford – $8,000
So there are some of your early front-runners from the UDFA pool to snag roster spots.
I’d be shocked in Hill doesn’t make it. Poona Ford just seems like a Pete Carroll favorite to me as well.
The poona numbers surprising
Thanks for this!
I’m going to predict Seattle goes 11-5 this year and makes it in to the playoffs. Do I think Seattle will go to the superbowl. No! They have some work to do, but as long as they have a veteran leadership and the rookie energy there will be surprises and II don’t feel the schedule of teams work against us. This is how I see the next year.
@Broncos W
@Bears W
Cowboys W
@Cardinals W
Rams L
Raiders W
@Lions W
Chargers L
@Rams L
Packers W
@Panthers L
49ers W
Vikings L
@49ers W
Chiefs W
Cardinals L
this is why I think Seattle can be wild card team in 2018.with a 11-5 record. 10-6 would also get us into the playoffs. Once you are in the playoffs everything is off the patriots have not won every year but they have been in the talk of the playoffs every year since 2003. Penny’s 1st TD for Seattle will be a reception he received and took it to the house.
Looks like your W/L on individual games is 10-6, not 11-5.
HeHe, what game did I miss on.
Doesn’t look like a brutal schedule at this point. 10+ wins easlily achievable for this squad.
Well, not “easlily” but you know what I mean.
Hmm, well just to be argumentative I see where they could also start the season 0-3.
Broncos should be easy except for the high altitude. The big question is: who will be their quarterback?
Bears are gritty and at home, so that isn’t a sure thing. Trubisky may have found his sophomore stride.
Cowboys should be playing pretty well by the third game- at least they are at Seattle. Both Elliot and Prescott should be healthy.
Three worthy opponents – and none will be easy.
I think the bronco game will be close but I think RW pulls out the 2 minute Offense to get FG to win. The bears are not ready and the cowboys have no Pass game that’s what I see right now
I just hope the O line is ready for Week 1 and RW doesn’t get killed by Von Miller and Chubb.
The Broncos game will be essential. If they can prove themselves worthy against Miller/Chubb/Jewell, everything is possible. If not, well,…
Madmark you need to change your handle to Kreskin or Nostrodamus.
Another great article! Thanks for keeping the content going rob.
I think this was a great draft class considering the limited draft capital. So I’ve been telling all the haters.
I don’t get that many outside people can’t seem to factor that in. We had a 1st and a 4th. That is not great. But I think we did a lot to turn the culture around and inject some life into the team.
I’ll add that I appreciate what the draft analysts do, I don’t think it’s just guesswork, they can evaluate just fine. BUT, what it comes down to is they think we have to look like everybody else. So when they see Rasheem Green, they don’t see the dip and bend of a great pass rusher. But maybe that’s what YOU need. What WE need is a guy who can rush the passer, but also move inside and hold up. They see Tre Flowers and don’t see a darting jitterbug of a corner. Maybe that’s what YOU need, but what WE need is a long, physical guy who can stop the fade and do just enough on inside routes. They see Dissly and see a big reach because he’s not a “move” TE. Maybe that’s what YOU need, but what WE need is a mauler in the run game who can be just enough of a safety net for Russ to bail him out. And so on.
You be you. Let us be us. And judge us on whether we got better at being us. These guys may be all we got. But maybe they’re all we need.
+1,000,001
You know what they say
The lower the draft grade
The better the draft for the Seahawks.
Seattle was dealing with cap issues, trying to regain identity, reduce the white noise and get back to always compete. They succeeded in the draft and with free agency. Last years picks are going to get some opportunities and I think Seattle found some good talent there. Their line could actually be pretty good this year with Schot’s style of offense, much like the RPO Philly used last year. Wilson should do well with that type of run heavy option offense. A side note on Vanett. He didn’t get a lot of opportunities last year and hasn’t really shown well for a 3rd rounder. He did spend this offseason in Cal with Wilson working Graham’s Red Zone routes. Make a note on that. Brown is here for the whole camp at LT, Procic is nearly 15 lbs stronger this year. Fluker graded pretty well in run blocking by PFF. Fant really will give Ifedi a run for his money at RT and he is also around 325 now. Roos is still a physical guy with some nasty and I think Rees O will be the utility backup swing guy. Britt will run that line well this year.
I see Darboh and Moore both stepping up this year and Brown also bring more speed with size. The RB room is looking really good (not so much last year) and Seattle also has some legit FB’s on the 90 roster. Count on them keeping one, not Madden. I like the kid from Michigan. Defensively bringing in two of Minn lineman was a great move for continuity to work with Reed, Green and Jones. Seattle has the best linebacking corps they had since Irvin left. Tre Flowers I think will emerge next year as an important get at LCB. I heard the Pats and Arizona also coveted him. Earl, Griffith, Coleman, Maxwell and McDougal will give Seattle a pretty decent secondary with Flowers and Elliot in the mix. Seattle may have done enough for their edge rotation with LB adds and last years guys. Seattle may actually have interior pressure again with Green, Jones and Johnson. Last year with Bennet hurt all year and Richardson it didn’t seen that effective.
Seattle has gone full circle…lousy draft grades, power rankings and underdogs in all but 3 games according to Vegas and a hungry bunch of young players mixed with some seasoned vets with a little left in the tank. It’ll be nice to get back to Seahawks football.
I agree completely with your post. Re Vannett – people say he hasn’t done much, but was he ever going to displace JG? Same with Darboh – people have been way to quick to slate him but I really feel he will be a good player for us.
And the Minnesota pick ups at DT were excellent moves.
someone on this blog mentioned that he knew someone who was somehow connected tot he Hawks that said Vannett was not “all in”, was more interested in the lifestyle of a pro athlete. If that is true, then maybe he does not even make the team, especially if Swoopes can step up
Yeah, Techno Thursdays are probably over. Fun, yes, but football first.
A factor that has alway weighed in is injuries. Unpredictable, sudden, damaging. The hopes for a season can be blunted by a freak incident. I have no source of data on the effects of injuries on performance, but it is subjectively easy to see what a key injury can do to a team.
Recent Hawk teams have experienced more than their share (spare me your stats), so we are due for a healthier, more advantageous season. Just my hope, my dream.
OT, but wow, how’d I miss this little gem of a clip? Dang…
https://twitter.com/JReidDraftScout/status/985372525155831808
Rob posted that a few months back
Awareness, footspeed, physicality
Yeah, I saw that one too, on a different highlight video. The awareness to see that coming on the other side formation when a stunt left him empty, and then the speed to cross and cold cock that guy – he’s going to be an awesome pro in the mold of Steve Hutchinson.
You guys think he will go pro early?
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/23453503/can-wisconsin-badgers-jonathan-taylor-lead-team-college-football-playoff
Yes, all running backs should come out as early as you can due to your short earning span IMO. Pus he is a beast.
My hope is that we’ll be out of the running back market next year because Penny and Carson will have done so well.
Hey Rob. I thought I would pass this on to you. Listen in to Brock & Salk show at the 8:30 hour today. Brock refers to a study about players picked in rounds 3-5. They have a lot of other interesting tid-bits from their conversation with Joel Clat (? – I listen while working, so a lot of times I get just bits and pieces)
I’ll check it out, thanks for passing it on
Here is someone that agrees with us that Seahawks deserve a better draft grade.
https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/10/seahawks-finally-receive-above-average-draft-grade/
It’s all just noise IMO. It doesn’t get brought up enough… or even ever, but picking late in the draft every year is freaking hard.
We have missed out on the star athletes available in top 10. Or being able to trade down from that position and collecting 2-3 extra draft picks along the way. But that doesn’t really account for all the personnel misses that have occurred.
Anyway the Patriots pick late and it doesn’t bother them any. Perhaps that is because of the coaching!
A QB being paid under fair market value doesn’t hurt either… and a very weak AFCE.
just a heads up Seahawks twitter is in meltdown mode because Pete Carroll had a Clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson talk to the Hawks staff. Apparently this is the straw that broke the camels back and now pete has worn out his welcome. LOLOLOL
That is pretty interesting that they’d bring him in. He’s certainly a controversial figure.
I dont have a problem with it, but there was always gonna be backlash.
I wasn’t (and still am not) familiar with the guy or his work.
So I perform a google search and his last book is titled “12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos”
Judging from the title alone- it seems right along the lines of purging drama and big personalities to me.
His book is actually pretty standard boiler-plate self-help stuff. I’m not surprised ‘Mr. Self-Help and Competition’ Pete Carroll would love Peterson.
I think Jordan only really exploded in prominence because he got involved in a couple of controversial Canadian Bills on discrimination and pronouns and the like. And of course with any political opinion, the media then spun him into either a devil or a hero of the cause depending on which side you’re on.
As someone who leans left on the political spectrum I actually find him to be pretty innocuous really. He’s a smart guy who I think means well, and without getting too far into the can of worms I just question and disagree with some of the conclusions he reaches and perspectives he has.
Really what annoys me are the people that blow him up so much. On both sides. Like the ones on the right who champion him seem to worship his every word like they’re revolutionary truths, when really his ideas aren’t anything new and he himself seems very unsure of a lot of things. And the ones on the left painting him as a some monster really only fuels the perception that the left are all sensitive loonies who are afraid of everyone.
Anyone who has an issue with Pete Carroll inviting Jordan Peterson to Seahawks HQ needs to actually watch one of Peterson’s lectures, not be pursuaded by the various smears doing the rounds that attempt to portray him as the devil reborn.
When he visited the UK I found this to be a very interesting interview with us at the BBC: https://youtu.be/5ER1LOarlgg
It’s typical of the modern day society that someone not obsessed with proving how ‘woke’ he is gets labelled ‘controversial’. Don’t have to agree with everything he says but some of the reaction to him is lazy and misplaced.
I read a saying today that sums it up for me. People are more interested in virtue signalling than being virtuous.
Good for Pete.
To be clear on my statements. I meant he’s considered controversial in general, in that some peoe like him others do not.
That doesnt mean im labelling him anything, I actually find him really interesting and has a lot of opinions i agree with.
I just meant its surprising that the Seahawks would risk the potential backlash.
If anything, I’d applaud Pete Carroll for not giving a crap about the backlash.
Too often these days people are petrified to do anything that isn’t deemed acceptable to the echo chambers on social media.
A lot of the people complaining about this invite are just sheep. They haven’t watched any of Peterson’s lectures. They just read the smears — he’s a misogynist, he’s anti-feminist, he hates transgender people — and go along with it.
I’ve watched some of Peterson’s stuff. I think it’s good that someone, at last, is trying to provide guidance and direction to young men. In the UK, suicide is the biggest killer of men under-45.
I don’t have a problem at all with Carroll inviting him to the Seahawks HQ and if people see beyond the virtue signalling silliness they’ll probably take the same opinion.
That doesn’t mean I agree with everything Peterson says. I certainly don’t. I also don’t personally take any benefit from his words. Thankfully, I don’t need the advice or guidance. But he has a message that a lot of young men clearly benefit from. And Pete Carroll is tasked with leading a group of young men.
I agree on all points.
Just want to clarify that i meant i was surprised by it, not against it.
Perhaps i should have known, Pete doesnt care about the backlash for drafting a RB, why should he care about the backlash of this.
I think on top of not caring about the backlash, I think Pete is EXTREMELY aware when he does anything. He invites a lot of people to Seattle but doesn’t often have a selfie with them. We’ll never know for sure but I suspect there’s a chance Pete was quite willing to let it be known this took place, possibly as a push back against the social media echo chamber.
He’s a smart guy and a great motivator. The other end of the spectrum of this is when he used to have Snoop Dogg on the sidelines for USC.
I think what this really shows is that he is incredibly open minded when it comes to seeing value in people.
Its part of what makes him a good leader.
The old “listen to my words, but don’t watch my actions”…. hypocrisy prevalent in culture today.
I would rather someone says the words… then lives by the words or actions…. than the opposite.
This goes for CK7, Ried or any other NFL player (or person) who stands for social justice or other worthy causes of note…. such as related to family, children, religion and life (just examples).
Example:
Cliff Avril, he stands for many things, but he also backs up his words with action when it comes to homelessness in far off lands. “Say what you mean, and mean what you say.”
I actually like the move. Politics aside Peterson is great; he’s been around a lot longer than his “political” image, and really I don’t think anything he says is THAT controversial. Unpopular, yes, but really not that controversial. I’d actually say I agree with most of the points he makes. He’s worth a watch at least.
He wasn’t brought in to talk politics anyway, so I don’t see any issues. Good move Pete!
Peterson is exactly the sort of self help quack Carroll has always loved. This isn’t exactly surprising news. His ideas are wildly uninspiring, certainly nothing that should be getting Seahawks Twitter wound up. But, we’ll, Seahawks Twitter
I read a comparison someone made once that I thought was pretty apt, in that Peterson is like the Deepak Chopra of the Right. I think Jordan is a little more rational than Deepak but the similarities are there. Both guys who wrap these old outdated beliefs under a fresh sheet of scientific babble and self-help that make people feel like they’re smarter for agreeing or following them. Peterson is more traditionalist with his views, so conservatives will be the ones to do the agreeing and following, while Chopra is more New-Age spiritual with his views so liberals would lean towards him.
Look, if Seahawks Fans haven’t figured out by now that Pete Carroll is Somewhat of a conservative, and most likely a Christian then I don’t know what to tell you. he has inferred this on numerous occasions. Did you see what he tweeted out after Trump won the election? It was the former basketball players response to a question as to who he voted for essentially saying that no matter who The president was, it didn’t really matter because Christ is king. The tweet may still even be there. Nevertheless it doesn’t matter. Pete Carroll has gone out of his way to be neutral on the subject for players media and the fans. He tries to meet you wherever you are and wants to see the best of all of us especially his players. I had never heard of Mr. Peterson before this but if Pete Carol brought him in is likely because he has an inspirational message that he thinks his staff can benefit from. Coach Carol has been wonderful for this franchise and the city and probably deserves the benefit of the doubt.
I get a very different feeling about Carroll. I think he’s spiritual but possibly doesn’t have a specific or limited religious belief. I don’t think he’s a conservative at all.
Regardless, it’s clear Peterson is an inspiration to many young men. And Carroll is trying to lead a group of young men.
Love Pete.
But, he does seem objectively like a bit of an eccentric well-meaning oddball who would probably spin right off the planet if he wasn’t busy with football. Or he’d become Hank Scorpio.
Per google search: http://www.celebritybeliefs.com/pete-carroll/
“One to rarely talk about religion, Pete Carroll’s beliefs can be found on page 55 of his book, Win Forever: Live, Work, and Play like a Champion. Pete says that he is a “blend of Methodist-Episcopal with Zoroastrianism”. Because of his faith, he refuses to eat poultry and shellfish from the same plate.”
So you almost called it Rob. He’s part Christian but has some other spiritual stuff mixed in there.
Like I said, that tweet he sent out after the 2016 election was pretty powerful and telling. I just checked, it’s still there.Nevertheless it is also a testament to Carol’s ability to be neutral with all concerned that we don’t really know exactly where he stands.i appreciate that. Regardless, as I said before no matter how you view him, I think he has earned the benefit of the doubt.
I saw some Jordan Peterson stuff before he became famous. He used to be on public television shows a few times.
The funny thing is that he is more left wing than right, and the right wing has embraced him as a hero in Canada for one issue.
He does talk about the the liberal brain vs the conservative brain and how that works. Interesting stuff. Seems we are born either liberal or conservative, although you can have a liberal brain and be a conservative and vice versa. I finally figured out my father!
I wouldn’t read too much into that tweet. Can be interpreted in many ways.
Agreed but of all the things he could have said, he chose that.
Don’t want to argue about it.
Sure, but personally I don’t think that tweet was an endorsement of Trump.
I’ll admit. Never heard of the guy. Had to YouTube him. Watched two clips of him taking about the mental health of young men including depression, self worth and drugs. If he is helping the staff to notice the signs of these and give them the support than I think it’s a worth while affair. That’s a real thing. Look no further than the WSU QB this season (sorry don’t remember his name). His views on women and race not so much…
What are his views on women and race though?
I don’t recall ever seeing anything that would be deemed ‘racist’ that he’s said.
And his views on women are actually views on feminism, or a particular and specific brand of feminism.
Rob, to be clear. I was in no way inferring that PC is a Trump supporter. There are many republicans and conservatives that do not agree with the current administration. I don’t want to get too deep in the weeds on this because that is not the point of this blog. And I definitely don’t want to start a members arguing about this. I was only pointing out that in the very limited times PC does seem to weigh in on these issues it seems that he has slightly more conservative values, hence the referenced tweet and Mr Peterson
Likewise, I’m not arguing. And don’t think the tone has been argumentative so far, just a fair discussion.
I think the fact Pete has done more to embrace the protests — and is the only coach seemingly willing to consider signing Colin Kaepernick — is ample evidence that Pete isn’t overly Conservative. Personally I’ve always felt Pete was extremely the other way politically. In fact I recall thinking, after Trump’s election, that Pete looked like someone who wanted to say the king of things Doug Baldwin and Michael Bennett said after the election but held his tongue. And another of Pete’s qualities is his ability to relate to people of polar opposite backgrounds. He has an everyman quality.To his credit. And that suggests he’s not deeply political, probably just dedicated to helping people.
And Peterson, FWIW, has identified with the left in the past I believe. Probably not anymore, but originally so.
Sorry, I can’t seem to respond to your latest post.
I would say that the fact that we can’t necessarily pinpoint exactly where P Carol falls politically or spiritually is a testament to how he is trying to reach out to all people. I could go on here and make points about all of the strong conservative Christians that he surrounds himself with on his coaching staff or talk about the type of speakers that he’s brought in of a conservative nature or his strong support of military and law enforcement or certain tweets (lol). However I would imagine that someone could just as easily go on here and make an argument to the contrary pointing out more more leftist ideas or points of view or actions or even point out that you don’t have to lean one way or the other to be supportive of any of the issues that I just brought up. Living here in Seattle, I actually really appreciate the neutral, and positive tone that Pete has set as coach of this team. He has created this team as something that everyone can get behind and everyone can enjoy and it is one of the very few things that the city gets united behind. One of those very very very few things that people can seem to agree upon around here.
In regards to Kaepernick, I would imagine that the Seahawks interests lie mainly with the remembrances of the 2013 championship game where he was sensational. I would imagine picture He was trying to tap into that for football reasons. But they certainly weren’t shy about bringing in someone with controversial points of view.
Personally, I had never heard of Mr. Peterson before. I listened to several of his YouTube talks yesterday and I did not find anything particularly offensive or taboo. However I do see how he could rub some people the wrong way because he does not fit into a specific box that our modern-day culture and media like to put people in. Definitely not a politically correct character. However, Rob I would like to echo your sentiments that anyone who is going out of his way to be a positive and strong voice of support and inspiration and guidance for young men to make it in this world today should be applauded and not the victim of a witchhunt from the thought police.
I have no idea where you get the idea that PC is a political conservative.
He has spoken about the Iraq war as a mistake, he has supported social issues that conservatives do not support, and his coaching philosophy is about as liberal as it gets. If he had long hair and sandals he would be the prototypical hippie.
Conservatism is about doing things the same way, Liberalism is about changing things. This is something that is inbreed in us over 1 million years of evolution and a balance is required between them for healthy societies.
Pete has made a point to express that he became successful when he decided to stop doing things the way he was told by the old school guys because he kept getting fired. He went to USC and did things his way, and same went he went to Seattle. Nothing conservative about his approach.
That does not mean he cannot have some values that are conservative, most healthy people are not the extreme of just one or the other.
But I will bet my house (DON’T tell my wife) Pete has a liberal brain.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that………
Pete is a hippie California surf dude.
In another life he would’ve been friends with Bill and Ted.
I really have no experience with this man. Through Google this seems to be his main criticism. I have no feelings of him either way. It was just what I saw while looking up what he may provide to the Seahawks.
I would advise caution there. As noted earlier, the echo chambers on social media have been smearing Peterson for some time. I don’t agree with everything he says. But some of the stuff he’s accused of is absolutely ridiculous.
Sadly, his reputation appears to be set in the minds of many, as emphasised by the reaction to Carroll’s tweet. Most people don’t even know who he is. Or, they know who he is based on what people accuse of him of being or they do a quick google search and discover the nonsense.
The reality is, he’s not what the internet says he is.
And that doesn’t mean I agree with everything he says or take benefit from his work. I don’t. But I’ll go to bat for Pete Carroll here. Peterson does fine work helping some men find a purpose in life. And he clearly has a message that resonates with many. The fact Carroll has tapped into that shouldn’t be remotely controversial.
Hawk eye, like I said in a previous post, we could go back and forth with evidence to support our view on this. I touched on it a little. (BTW there are many Republicans who thought Iraq was a mistake…) also i never said he was right wing. I said “somewhat” of a conservative. Sounds like hot and I agree a little.
The whole point of my initial post was in response to the backlash of criticism about him bringing in a speaker who is largely maligned by the greater Left wing of American politics. My point was that we shouldn’t be surprised that P Carol has some more conservative views on certain things. This was evidenced by certain tweets that he is sent out and also also other things that I’ve mentioned.
As far as his career goes,P Carol is a champion not of the right nor the left but of being a teacher and a father and helping the community. And that is something we can all be proud of to have here in Seattle.
I do regret that my post were taken as to trying to put Carroll a political box. Not my intention.I think too highly of him for that and I definitely think too highly of this blog reduce it to the junkyard which is American partisan politics.
Have great weekend guys.
Keep fighting the good fight Rob.
It comes a bit late, but thanks for another year of quality draft reading material and excellent interviews.
Thanks Kip 👍🏻
I agree with ya on all fronts, All I See. I was just expanding on Ishmael calling Peterson a quack. Which I don’t know if is the right word, but there are some interesting comparisons out there.
If interested, he is featured in current issue of Esquire magazine.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/amp19834137/jordan-peterson-interview/
Anyone not like this review of Dissley?
“Will Dissly was an underrated pick as an offensive lineman masquerading as a tight end.”
hahaha
Hello running game . . .
Well guys I’m stuck in a hospital for God knows how long for work, who should I check out?? Been here 6 hours already with no signs of leaving anytime soon, please help! SOS
Two of the recent free agents we just signed I like a lot (from what I’ve seen so far)
Mutcherson S UCF:
https://youtu.be/INxfHYx2vzA
Stringfellow WR Ole Miss:
https://youtu.be/Afkg5ECpWvU
https://youtu.be/gd4Wv6UAGS4
Mutcherson S UCF:
https://youtu.be/INxfHYx2vzA
Stringfellow WR Ole Miss:
https://youtu.be/Afkg5ECpWvU
https://youtu.be/gd4Wv6UAGS4
Shoot, I guess if you put more than one hyper link in the post it forces the comment into moderation.
Stringfellow might have some concentration issues (but we are talking an undrafted guy, so they obviously have some flaw)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wvWCz1mn31o
Watch the last three plays. He drops two relatively easy catches then makes one of the best I’ve ever seen in the last.
Can we talk him into changing his name by one letter to create one of the most awesome football names ever?
STRONGFELLOW
Mack Strong was at least as good, and it was his actual name…
I would suggest looking at some YouTube tape on one of our new free agent wide receiver Stringfellow and also the new safety from UCF
Strongfellow was a highly rated recruit coming in UW…. had some scrapes and got the boot.
He kind of put it back together… and flying under the radar…. might stick on the roster.
A high quality WR needing to find his way…. kind of reminds me of another under rated WR who came into Seattle some years ago…. not in play, but chip on the shoulder… Baldwin.
Love his size and ball skills. Think I saw his old 40 time as 4.50 range, not bad either. Was watching some old games not long ago and sort of reminds me of Sydney Rice.
Doesn’t it feel like 2012 all over again. Marshall reminds me of a Sydney Rice type….. I’m not sure of Stringfellows style, but decent size is never a bad thing.
He beat up a hawks fan, right? Can’t necessarily blame him unless I knew the situation lol.
I think he beat up a Radiers fan, who was ragging on the Hawks…. 3 years ago or so.
Stringfellow looks like a very good play maker after the catch. Hope he comes on board.
Rob-again you prove it for all the world to see! Your commentary on Carrolls invitation to Jordan Peterson to come speak to Seahawk staff was the epitome of the balance and reason you bring to all matters on the blog.
As one who has given some time to Petersons ideas-beyond the canonization/vilification hysteria that plays out on social media and in the press, I’m gratified by the blog community’s level-headed reactions (tips hat to Socal12, in particular here). if anyone really wants a sense of the fuller range of Petersons depth of intellect, skip 12 Rules For Living and go back to the more academic Maps Of Meaning or his biblical lecture series which a basically non-Christian such as myself can still fully appreciate.
I guess my real message is that you all-Rob and all the guys-make being a Hawks fan an even greater experience than it would otherwise be. And I thank you for that!
+1
So given our group of DB prospects, where are we really as far as having a starting level CB opposite Griffin.
First, thanks for the stuff above!
I think we’re pretty fine opposite Griffin. We’ve got Maxwell returning who finished the season awesome, looked back to form. Then we got a proven, reliable, good tackling, albeit not so special starter ready to compete with him in Dontae Johnson. After that I think DeAndre Elliot is next up, hes shown well in limited opportunity over the years, he could make a jump and push for the spot. After that it’s all projects, Tyson, Flowers, Thorpe. Flowers obviously has a chance to be special but it would be even more incredible for him to do it immediately. Thorpe really has kinda flatlined in his development in my eyes, great special teamer, but is he ever going to step forward? I’m not convinced. Tyson is a wildcard/sleeper for me, hes a good athlete and tackler, we’ve seen guys show up big after a redshirt year, he could be next.
So all in all the way I’d word it is expect a high floor, even with an injury, with the possibility of a high ceiling, Flowers is too good of a prospect to count out yet. Especially since Sherman started his rookie year.
Thanks for the feedback Slaw and all.
Continuing on the CB theme, Another question: in the Seahawks search for their starting CB#2, hypothetically, who would you choose:
DeShawn Shead Or Byron Maxwell & why?
(as you might imagine, another question may follow this one depending on responses)
Maxwell all day. He keeps the ball in front of him much better. Or maybe that’s just Shead’s style, which would be fine but Shead never turned his head around to locate the ball, that drives me mad.. he always had good position early, just always played the receiver instead of switching to the ball and paid for it with completions and penalties.
Maxwell is older but he had 5 really strong games to finish the year, so no worries really. I just love his style and his knack for knocking the ball out/forcing incompletions. Dude is one of the best at covering the slant, just being a bully. Although when people get past him he can’t recover as well as Shead, so pick your poison I guess lol.
Just my opinion though
Maxwell because Shead is a Detroit Lion.
Which is why I said hypothetically. I know he is in Detroit.
Seahawks need to fix 2 things. First half offense and special teams. Russell Wilson will do the rest in crunch time when needed.
I forgot about the Darrell Bevel slow starts, putting the team behind the 8 ball. Good call.
The ST will work itself out…. they brought in some quality depth that can play ST, without using as many starters as they have in the past. The rumor is Griffin might be asked to play gunner, due to his natural bend and overall play speed. The ST coach was gushing about him during some off the air talk with Brock Huard after rookie mini camp.
Another similar thing we hopefully will see gone is the Tom Cable early season OL learning curve. Solari’s scheme sounds like it’ll allow these guys to just dig their nose in and play instead of think. Should lend to earlier success than Tom Cable’s perfection-oriented scheme.
Solari will have more of a man on man blocking scheme and less zone blocking.
This should line up with the abilities of multiple OL on the roster. Ifedi comes to mind. He may not be the best guy out in space, but when he gets his hands on a DL….. he wrecks them.
There was an off hand comment about making the players fit the scheme… last few seasons… instead of making the scheme fit the players…. sounds like a coaching problem, which was corrected.
Nice post
It will be interesting to see how Schotty differs from Bevell in this regard. But going back, re-watching all of our games from last year… yeah, uh, Wilson deserves some of the blame. His decision making and accuracy really seemed to regress at times last year.
How much of that was from constantly being under assault or thinking he was about to be? I’d like to see improved protection and a renewed focus o getting the ball out quickly like they did a couple of years ago.
I seriously doubt RW scrambling for his life last year was the trigger and cause of the OLs bad blocking. The opinion that RW caused it as the start of the sequence of events really doesn’t make much sense.
Homie don’t play that.
Well on 3rd and 9 after your OC has clearly panicked and abandoned his plan it might be hard to get your head straight. I think things will change with more 3rd and 4 and 3rd and 2 situations. Russell will feel less like he has to make the play to win the game, in other words he’ll play less hero ball.
Been looking at the roster position by position, and found the WR group interesting. We currently have 10 bodies, and outside of Doug, Lockett and Cyril Grayson, all are good size and there is some speed. Five are 6′ 2″ or taller, 4 are 218 pounds or more. And, 6 of them have 2 or less years of experience, so the potential is pretty strong.
Chuck Knox passed away:(
Thanks for the memories, coach!
To Ground Chuck!
*opens beer*
The Easely/Curt Warner years! Ah, that D-Line! Our first playoff game! going to miss you ground Chuck!
Rob, the collapse of the “mainstream media,” even national sports journalism, has made us appreciate you all the more. For a long time, the media was running a con game, claiming expertise they did not have, publishing articles painting a false picture of whatever. In many ways, the internet has exposed their con. The Seahawks draft grades from the national media is just the latest example of countless others, but our knowledge of John and Pete allows us to see through their bluff of insight, when in fact their knowledge of their subject isn’t even an inch deep. Cheers to you and your blog for honest and knowledgeable insight.
Thanks James
Im watching that Rain City Redemption documentary, cause ive never actually done it.
That 2010 season really was the start of something special, hopefully we’ll look back at this upcoming season in 8 years with the same comforting bliss that we were watching a team on the verge of being great.
Also Pete never changes does he? Always so jacked 😛
Since we are all bored waiting for training camp, I thought I would throw this out there. Thsee are the ages of the potential starters week 1:
Offense:
Wilson…29.8
Penny…22.6
Baldwin…30
Lockette…26
Brown/Darboh…28.7/24.6
Dickson…31.1
Vannett/Dissly…25.5/22.5
Brown…33
Pocic…23.1
Britt…27.3
Fluker…27.5
Ifedi…24.2
Average age using all these names…26.85
Defense:
Dion Jordan…28.5
Jarran Reed…25.7
Shamar Stephen/Naz Jones…28/23.7
Frank Clark…25.2
Bobby Wagner…28.2
KJ Wright…29.2
Bark Mingo/Justin Coleman…27.9/25.5
Byron Maxwell…30.6
Shaquille Griffin…23.2
Brad McDougald…27.8
Earl Thomas…29.4
Average age of the defense…27.14
So the average age would be right about 27.
Right now OL, DL (inside out pass rusher), LB, S and WR have to be the biggest needs.
OL, DL, LB are the biggest imo, unless we lock up Fluker, then OL is less of a need and we can just re sign Fant and Brown. Something tells me they won’t sign all 3 though.
Also was bored, here’s a look at what we could end up paying our upcoming FAs.
Tier 1:
Frank Clark DE UFA $15M/APY
Duane Brown OT UFA $11M/APY
George Fant OT RFA $5M/APY
Tyler Lockett UFA $5M/APY
Total: $36M/APY
Tier 2:
K.J. Wright UFA $6M/APY
Justin Coleman UFA $3M/APY
D.J. Fluker UFA $3M/APY
Total: $12M/APY
Tier 3:
Dion Jordan UFA $2M/APY
Sebastian Janikowski UFA $3M/APY
Total: $5M/APY
Tier 4:
DeAndre Elliot RFA
Tier 5:
Marcus Smith UFA
David Moore ERFA
Maurice Alexander UFA
We could get everybody with a price for $53M. We probably wont keep all of them, but if we wanted to, this is about what it would cost. Interesting to look at our roster with the idea that Clark, Brown, Fant, Lockett, KJ and Fluker all are locked down.
I like the exercise. My two comments are on Fant and Jordan. Even if Fant takes over the RT spot this season and plays well, in no way would I be comfortable paying him $5M/year. If we could get him for 3yrs/$10M I would feel ok doing that. This is slightly lower in APY than the deal Garry Gilliam signed, but he has more experience (not saying he’s a better player).
As for Jordan, I think either he plays well enough that he earns more than $2M/yr or he doesn’t and he isn’t on the team anymore. Different positions I know, but if Mingo can get $3.4M/yr I have to think Jordan won’t settle for $2M/yr.
Seriously jonesing for a new article Rob! Want to hear your take on the round 5 draft picks and beyond! Especially Queem and the new punter!
Im sure you can find Rob gushing about Shaq in every previous comment section lol he loves him
Having done a thorough write up on Shaquem pre draft I’m not going to do another. The next piece will Be this week, on Poona Ford.
One of my “all football” guys and a blog favorite Christian Kirk was arrested. You can only scout so much about a player.
For all the bad stuff players can do (like Ajai w/ fins) this wasn’t huge, just discouraging. Not doing anyone in AZ proud atm.
The fact that it happened so close to the draft is a huge red flag to me. The most important day of his life is coming up, with so much to lose, and he decides to get really drunk and throw rocks at cars.
Is it just me or does anyone else find the new TE signing about as notable as a tour through Soap Lake Washington?
Just needed another TE named Wilson… 😉
Hey now, there are some really nice farms in Soap Lake!
Should I even ask what they’re farming?
The 90th guy on a the roster isn’t going to be a superstar.
Soap lake is the next Yakima lol
Does Yakima keep their Christmas lights up around the city all year long? What are unique little place that town is, including their little lake.
Damn M’s. PEDs in the PNW. Just when they were starting to turn it around
Ken Rosenthal says Cano would be ineligible for the playoffs but the suspension will be over by the end of the regular season. Is there some added penalty now for PEDs that players guilty are ineligible for the playoffs?