— It’s become apparent recently that Russell Wilson’s drop-backs are extremely deep. I’m not sure if he’s always done this or if it’s a recent thing. It might just be more noticeable at the moment, I haven’t had time to check. Look at this example though:
3rd and 7 play (still on 2nd drive), protection is great and would like to see Russ hit Lockett here but Russ is behind Britt so doesn't see pic.twitter.com/yGdwo6UwGs
— Ben Baldwin (@guga31bb) September 26, 2017
In the video above it’s a 3rd and 7 from Seattle’s 14 yard line. Wilson is in the shotgun but still takes a five-step drop. He settles on his own four-yard line. This all means he has to throw at least a 17-yard completion to get a first down. The three receivers all run beyond the 21-yard line so Wilson is actually needing to throw a +20-yard pass to convert a routine third down.
That’s a strange circumstance to begin with — but let’s take it a step further.
Wilson’s deep drop from a shotgun formation actually gives the defensive end a better angle to the quarterback. Instead of needing to get around the edge to beat the tackle, it’s pretty much a diagonal line to the QB. If Wilson sits in the pocket the tackle can play inside-out and guide the rusher out of the play if he isn’t able to stone him at the point.
Instead, you’re creating a much bigger area of space for the tackle to try and defend. Look at the pressure Germain Ifedi gives up in the video above. You can clearly see Ifedi is wary of the large amount of space he has to try and cover. He engages the defender and lets him run outside. Usually this would be fine, he’s playing inside-out. Yet Wilson is still moving and nearly scrambles directly into the path of the pass rusher.
Ifedi doesn’t even engage until he’s dropped back to the five yard line. Seattle is basically shifting the pocket backwards by a good 9-10 yards. Even then the quarterback isn’t settling. In the video Wilson seems to have a good 3-4 seconds after completing his drop to assess the field and make a decision — and still scrambles. It’s harder for the O-line to defend their quarterback and it’s harder for Wilson to make a completion because he has to launch the ball downfield.
Focusing strictly on the O-line — with the QB dropping back so deep you’re asking a tackle to mirror a player who is 40-50lbs lighter and likely one of the best athletes in the NFL (as most DE’s are) while giving said player a better angle and much more space to work with.
No wonder they’re trying to develop freaky athletic ex-basketball players to play tackle. This is no job for a 320lbs behemoth who specialises in run blocking.
We’ve always talked about how difficult Wilson is to block for. His scrambling nature and ability to improvise often means a linemen has to take a best guess on where he’s going to be. It’s much harder to create a basic pocket if Wilson is moving around and he has a tendency to sack himself on occasions. Wilson holds onto the ball for a long time too — so sustaining blocks is much more important than it would be for a pure pocket passer.
His height also creates a dilemma because he needs passing lanes. Cut-blocks are one way to achieve this. There’s been a lot of talk this week about a Shaun O’Hara tweet criticising Seattle’s O-line for a perceived ‘quintuple whiff’ when attempting a collective cut block:
Some bad football in 1st Half of #SEAvsTEN game. Never 👀this before 👉🏻5 whiffed cuts & a fumbled snap Tough Times for @Seahawks OFFENSE pic.twitter.com/e3eBJD7j7R
— Shaun O'Hara (@ShaunOHara60) September 25, 2017
It seems pretty clear what Seattle is trying to do here. Get the D-line on the ground or off-balance to allow Wilson a quick-pass opportunity. The fumbled snap never gives Wilson the chance to get his pass away but this was likely designed to be a quick throw, not one of his long developing throws. If you actually look at the point where he collects the football — he has huge throwing lanes and a big chunk of space at the second level. This was chided as a huge gaffe by the O-line but really, the big mistake was probably the fumbled snap.
Execution and small details like a fumbled snap might be why Seattle’s offense appears so discombobulated at the moment. They’ve always been a ‘controlled chaos’ unit in the Wilson era. It suited them — with Marshawn Lynch getting yards in a way only he can and Wilson doing his Fran Tarkenton act.
Without Lynch and with Wilson being quite streaky to start the year, it’s not a big surprise that Seattle’s offensive form has fluctuated.
The encouraging thing is we’ve seen them right the ship before and the defense is playing well enough to think this team can get back on track.
— Is there a way for Seattle to beter utilise their D-line? At the moment Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett and Sheldon Richardson are absorbing a lot of snaps. Against the Titans, Bennett played 88% of the defensive snaps, Avril 73% and Richardson 70%.
Only six players had more defensive snaps (Sherman, Chancellor, Wagner, Wright, Thomas and Lane).
The trio are also seemingly playing a lot of early downs and needing to provide the kind of aggressive run defense Seattle craves.
It’d be nice to see these three in particular given an opportunity to pin their ears back and get after the quarterback. They clearly get that opportunity in certain scenarios — but it’s usually after some hard graft in the trenches vs the run.
Richardson, for example, might be Seattle’s best interior run defender. Which is great and incredibly useful. Yet he was brought here to try and be that vital missing interior rusher.
It seems, from the outside, that Seattle isn’t entirely trusting of Jarran Reed, Naz Jones and Garrison Smith to handle the run-D duties. If true that’s a shame because it’d be great to see Sheldon Richardson used predominantly as an attack dog on passing downs, finding ways to crash the pocket and be a playmaker.
Richardson might just be too important as a run defender at the moment. Unfortunately, you have to wonder if it’s impacting his ability to be the explosive pass rusher we know he can be.
— Here’s your daily reminder that the Seahawks aren’t the only team with O-line issues:
Bruce Arians lays the blame on the offensive line after Carson Palmer takes six sacks https://t.co/t0Ysm42nLQ
— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) September 26, 2017
“We only have seven guys out there, so they’re the only ones that can play,” Arians said.
Arians said Carson Palmer was finding open receivers but getting hit before he could get the ball to them.
“We had guys open at times and just didn’t get them because we couldn’t throw the ball,” Arians said.
Palmer was sacked six times, and Cardinals right tackle Jared Veldheer particularly struggled to block Cowboys defensive end Demarcus Lawrence, who had three of those sacks. If the Cardinals don’t block better, it’s going to be a long season for Palmer.
— The 2018 quarterback class is going to be as good as advertised. This week I only watched Josh Rosen and Josh Allen. Rosen is a fantastic passer with great potential and looks like a top-five pick. His poise, accuracy, ability to adjust throwing speeds and consistency are extremely appealing. He looks really good this season playing without a particularly good supporting cast at UCLA. Allen has a lot of kinks to iron out and had some ugly throws against Hawaii (including a wasted pick six opportunity). His throw to win the game in overtime, however, flashed his physical potential. It was a difficult throw to make but his placement and velocity were spot on.
Allen probably shouldn’t go before Sam Darnold and Rosen (and maybe Lamar Jackson too) but someone will take him in round one to work with and develop. The top-10 could be loaded with quarterbacks in 2018 if they all declare.
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Russell Wilson has had a slow start overall to virtually every season in his NFL career, so we can hope that this ugly, horrible play from him will mature into the Russell Wilson we all know and respect, but it really does feel like this season (so far) has been a microcosm of every negative criticism leveled at Wilson coming into the NFL. His height and penchant for running into trouble have both been evident. Combine that with a lot of wildly inaccurate passing has made the Seattle offense look like a rolling disaster.
So frustrating that after 5 full seasons in the NFL, the Seahawks and Russell Wilson *STILL* haven’t found the scheme design to optimize Wilson’s skills while downplaying his short-comings (pun kinda intended). Wilson can’t simply run from trouble forever, and even though the Houdini act is a big part of his brand, he needs to get beyond it or his career in the NFL will never amount to what we as fans have all envisioned it becoming.
If anything, these annual slow starts aren’t helping to win championships.
Joel I think you’re on the right track with the scheme question. Wilson is an elite NFL quarterback with some warts… like all NFL quarterbacks. Tom Brady would have been labeled as having feet of cement in the wrong scheme. Peyton Manning didn’t throw a great ball and had trouble in the wind. It’s all about fitting the right coach/system with the right player. Pete is a defensive coach and it shows with a historically dominant defense. I’ve not been down on Bevell but you have to wonder if a different OC would be a better fit with Russell.
if you freeze that at :04 there is a wide open receiver down the middle and he has time in the pocket. I also remember another play where Wilson did step up, but you were right that the end had a straight diagonal to him and Ifedi just barely pushed him by. Russell didn’t get sacked but it threw off the timing. Hasselbeck also used to do an amazing 9 step drop on some passes. Maybe Walter can come out of retirement just to block the ends on those really deep drops.
I would love to see Russ play behind THAT line. He would dissect defenses. Walt, Hutch & Tobeck… drooling on myself.
Hugh Millen has mentioned many times that he hates how much ground Ifedi gives up when pass blocking. He believes it would be better for him to engage earlier with the defender, to better emphasize his strength (de-emphasize his lack of quickness) and also not back into Wilson’s line of sight.
He says that it is very disconcerting as a QB, to have your linemen backpedaling into your face.
Crazy that we are talking about his lack of quickness. When that’s the whole reason he was drafted. He had more explosive capabilities than the other lineman available in the draft.
The thing of it is, as I recall back in the latter stages of 2015, when Wilson went on that record campaign, he was doing a lot of damage with a quick passing game, and a lot of that was from the pocket. He also had a healthy Thomas Rawls and was mixing in the zone read.
I think last week it was brought up all the long developing pass plays they were running when they only needed six or seven yards for the first.
Are they trying to get more vertical to help set up the run game?
I think we’ve got a chicken and egg problem going on here. They’re trying to hit explosives early to get the offense a spark, but the D isn’t respecting the run game and are playing them deep. Essentially, they are just sending 4 and dropping everyone else back, trusting that their DL will win the battles and cause pressure anyway.
They did that again against the Titans, but Wilson over shot Baldwin. IMO, I think Wilson’s streakiness is likely affected greatly by his level of confidence. When they go quick, he zones in, but when they run slow developing stuff, he gets shaky. Maybe they run more quick hitters mixed with run plays and zone read early to loosen up the coverages later. Let him get a string of higher percentage completions to build on. I think that was the 2015 MO of the offense.
I do think some of this is on the play calling. When are pass rushers at their strongest? In the first and second quarters of games when they are the freshest. Long developing plays early go up against that.
Another thing is OL. Only Justin Britt is playing the same position with this team as he was last year. Both tackles were guards last year, and both guards weren’t with the team. Asking these guys to gel together right away is pretty unrealistic. Maybe more of a reason to not call for the deeper stufff early. Let them wear on defenders for a while first, even if for minimal gains, just keep feeding Carson the rock.
I agree with this plan. It seems to me that Russ is hesitant to take the short gains and is always looking for the explosive play. Why can’t we do the same thing against other teams that kills us? Take a bunch of short, high percentage throws and get easy yards. Mix in some runs and like you said, go for the explosives later.
We have the right type of WRs to win early in Doug and Lockett. They’re both extremely quick and shifty which allows them to create early separation. In addition, it looks like we have RBs who could excel at catching passes out of the backfield in Carson and especially Prosise.
I’d really like to blame Darrell Bevell right now. I have not been a fan of his play-calling, basically ever. But even with poor play-calling, you should see some good execution.
The quick passing game needs to improve to: a)set up the run b)relieve the pressure off the OL/QB.
Rob, I appreciate you pointing out these long drops. This year it has seemed like Wilson retreats 10 yards only to throw to Jimmy at the line of scrimmage. I understand that a lot of our big plays come on verts or the scramble drill. This we need to get Matt Hasselbeck in here to coach Russ up on the benefits of tempo/timing passes.
Trust your pass-catchers Russ!
And by quick passing, I do NOT mean multiple screen passes. Apparently, we can’t successfully run those.
Local radio was talking about after the first 1/2 of the Titan game, the Seahawks OL appeared to play noticeably better. Specifically, the guard play was stable and this enabled the LT and RT to play consistent football. Perhaps the first time the whole season this appeared the case. This was in a normal offense, not hurry-up. Balanced and poised. Perhaps this is where the problem really is… trust. OL have to trust each other, RW has to trust the OL and OL have to trust RW will get the ball out on time.
I think Aboushi played much better than Glowinski (prior 2 weeks) and stabilized the right side. You can now build and repeat next week. RG and RT appear to be gelling….. now to get Joeckle and Odhiambo on the same page.
Before last draft, we spoke a lot abouth big nickel formation, Obi as a potential high draft pick,70% of snap in nickel last year, and everybody agreed that nickel is direction where this defense will go…but after 3 games this season that is not a case…vs titans wilhoite had 41 of 73 snaps, vs 49ers also over 50% of snap…it seems that the reason for 70% of nickel last year was lack of good SAM players…
maybe that is the reason why they didn’t want Obi so early, and maybe SAM will be drafted early next year…
You mean a guy like TJ Watt whom they could have had this year.
Seems to me, I was saying Watt was the most underrated player in the draft. I was pounding the table for him right here, as were a couple of others. IMO
I liked Watt as much as the next guy, but I don’t think he would’ve been a great fit in our D right now outside of a situational pass rusher. Putting him as an Irvin-style SAM would’ve been a waste of his talents IMO. He’s perfect as a 3-4 outside rush LB not unlike Clay Matthews has been for many years in GB.
He’s been mentioned here before, but Iowa’s LB Josey Jewell is going to be a player to watch out for. He had a productive game against Penn State last weekend, and if he can make over 100 tackles again then he could be in play as an early Seattle pick. College production was one of the reasons why, in 2012, JS/PC drafted Bobby Wagner with their 2nd round pick.
Wilhoite was pretty bad in that game. Thing is, Titans have 3 guys who can run the ball and a dominant OL. We also never forced them to go away from the run game by building up a lead. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the most we use our SAM all year.
Until Garvin comes back I almost wish they would put Chancellor at SAM and use McDougald (or maybe even Hill) at SS in our base formations, just to get our best players on the field.
you mean be creative instead of just lining up and say “try to beat us”?
why would we do that when we have Bennett, Avril, Clark and Richardson leading us to 28th place in pass pressures?
for all the “talent” on the D, something is off.
Wilson has a trust issue. He doesn’t throw his receiver’s open. he wait’s for them to get open first. A lot of his throw’s are not on time. Example: the throw to Baldwin on the sideline where he got pushed out of bounds. He had to wait forever for the ball to get there, by the time it did it was too late. Drive killer!!! In the video above, I doubt he was supposed to drop that deep with his back to the goal-line. That was a timing rout by P-Rich. He was running to an open spot on the field and Russ should have been throwing to that spot. Lack of trust!!! 3.5 seconds the ball should have been out. He had a nice pocket to work in. Lack of trust. I think by dropping so deep he was trying to give himself more room to scramble around. Lack of trust!!! He has got to trust his play-maker’s to make play’s. I think they need to bet Baldwin the ball early, right out of the gate.
GO HAWKS!!!!
Have you seen the tweet breakdown of that Doug sideline play you’re talking about? The reason why Doug had to wait so long was that Russ was keying on Rawls for a wheel route. He was one on one with a LB and gave up on the route. It was only after Rawls dogged it that Russ looked to Doug. That’s a matchup Rawls should win almost every time, or Prosise should be in running that. Given Rawls’ energy level it’s surprising that he just went through the motions on that play. Maybe that’s why Rawls played so few snaps…
I thought the LB did a pretty good job of picking Rawls up on that play. I don’t think he had much of a chance to make a play TBH. Agree that CJ should be running it instead.
Yup, I agree with that. I was mainly disappointed Rawls didn’t give a full effort on the play. Even if he was well covered, it’s no excuse to just stop running a route.
I agree with this. Wilson rarely throws receivers open. He needs to wait for them to have separation or he throws high where they have to jump and get it. If he stood in the pocket more, a la Brady, he’d have better protection around him and maybe a half second more to release the ball. But it’s clear he has no trust. And he’s short.
and he can’t throw the ball quickly, and he doesn’t know when to throw the ball away.
That’s why Jimmy has such bad body language. He is a timing guy first and foremost. He knows when he is open- he should be able to turn and have the ball right in his hands.
Not being a quick twitch guy, Jimmy can’t improvise for the sandlot stuff like DB.
Must be demoralizing to be a consummate pro then have a flag footballer for a QB, looking down at the line men rushing him instead of having his eyes down the field. That’s not on his Oline. That’s Russ’ lack of fundamentals.
Even in pre-season, i thought it was refreshing to see Davis keep his head up and his eyes down the field, going through his progressions, even when the pocket was collapsing and he was under pressure.
This is patently not true. If I could affix gifs of the throws this past game, I could provide at least half a dozen instances where Wilson threw guys open.
Obviously one such pass was the touchdown in the first half. That was perfect ball placement on a tightly covered player.
Wilson certainly can throw his receivers open, but I think it’s an area he needs to improve upon. He doesn’t do it often enough.
+1
Rob. Your observations on Sheldon Richardson got me thinking. You could make the same case for two other highly talented and highly priced Seahawks. Jimmy Graham and Russell Wilson.
I agree with you about the DL rotation. Neither Reed, Smith nor Jones are legitimate 1techs, which is their Achilles, along with the SLB play of their defense. They seemed to have resorted to a rotation of guys to fill that role, including Richardson.
It would be difficult to find help at this point of the season. What are your thoughts about Deon Simon as a potential ‘stop gap’ measure for this season? He’s a 6 – 4 332lbs NT that gives some inside push, who has played with Sheldon in NY. He could be picked up off their PS quite easily. Garrison could easily clear waivers and resort back to their PS.
It could be beneficial to have Avril, Bennett in less on run dns, particularly against running teams. Simon could anchor the middle with Reed @ 3tech on those dns.
Don’t know enough to comment on Simon — but I think they need to add some cheap big uglies in the draft or FA next year.
I disagree, stopping the run is extremely difficult, you must be in your gap, and assignment correct. It makes sense we are having struiggles relying on a guy who got here half a week before the season began, a second year player and a rookie. As the season goes on it will improve. Most of their runs haven’t been 4 to 5 yards gains, they have either been massive gains or nothing at all. So honestly it could be on Wilhoite or Bobby or KJ
For a little mid-week debate if Russ’s contract was up this off season do you sign him for more than Stafford so basically 30 mil + per year for 5 years+? Or let him walk?
You want to keep Wilson. It’s hard to find a franchise qb, I would however like if they took a qb in the 4th round this next draft. We need insurance for him, if RW loses more mobility, im not sure he can function behind this line. When RW runs with the ball, he looks much slower
I would sign Russell Wilson. Good QB’s are like gold dust.
Agreed!
In a heartbeat and without any hesitation.
Sign him that is. Go Hawks
Design Russ in a heartbeat. I wouldn’t resign Jimmy Graham…
Rob, you bring up a great point about the deep drops. Was he doing it in 2012-2013? I seem to recall him very successfully executing from the pocket back then. He also had Sid Rice and G.Tate to throw to, and a different o line.
As for the cut/chop blocking, isn’t it illegal? That’s Bobb McKittrick/49ers stuff. (Yes, the “great” 49ers dynasty would not be possible without illegal chop blocking.)
I think it’s impossible not to single out Bevell and Cable. All of these things are their responsibility to address and fix.
Matt Ryan’s drops are really deep also. He seems not to have a problem doing it.
That’s a big gripe with DB and his play calling. You should have very few 7 step drop passes. Look at AR, DB, TB. Those guys get rid of the ball. DB has RW doing 5-7 step drops most of the time. Your OL stinks. You have more quick than fast WR. Your TE is a matchup nightmare. Yet you decide to constantly call slow developing plays. DB can make the OL much better if he does a better job of play calling.
If the Hawks don’t score 28 this week and the defense doesn’t hold the Colts to less than 7 points, some changes need to be made.
Spot on. I’ve been saying it for several years
Trevor made the point a while back and I had quick comment on it, but the past two years our cut blocking has been very ineffective. It could be that D linemen are too athletic now and they can easily counter, and/or it could be that the gray area between cut and chop blocking is too thin and it’s too hard to execute without getting flagged.
I recall our line getting a ton of chop block calls against them throughout last year, but none this year including the preseason. I think they are getting coached differently.
I think that is a great point. Have the rule changes have a bigger impact than has been discussed in media. For ZBS schemes I would say yes.
It’s a chop block that is illegal I think, not cut.
I think it’s impossible to single out Bevell and Cable. Who knows who is dictating the deep drop for example? It could just as easily be Wilson, the QB coach or Carroll.
Off topic: Prosise likely out against Colts.
Seahawks playing a dangerous game with only 1 dependable RB, a rookie 7th rounder. Might be forced to play or drop Lacy.
Its safe to say dick Lebeau with so so personnel out coached Kris Richard with elite talent
I don’t think that’s safe to say.
Seattle’s offense took longer to get into a rhythm and struggled until the end. That helped Lebeau’s defense and hurt Richard’s.
4 pro bowl caliber players on d line and 2 at linebacker, 3 in the back
and yet only 2 pressures on Mariota all game and almost 200 yards rushing
Tenn made half time adjustments, and Seattle D did not adjust accordingly.
I find it hard to argue the Richard did not get outcoached
Well let’s break it down then.
Was Richard out-coached when several players whiffed on tackles on the two huge explosive touchdown plays? Was it Richard’s fault that Frank Clark jumped offsides then was out of position to prevent the screen? Was it Kris Richard out there flailing to stop DeMarco Murray’s slow march to the end zone? A run that this team never gives up and was so hideously out of character, involving several whiffs?
Was it Kris Richard’s fault that the defense, just like in Green Bay, was on the field so long because the offense was putrid? Was it Dick Lebeau out-coaching Richard that led to Tennessee’ offense suddenly finding some semblance of rhythm against a tiring defense, while Seattle’s offense took a lot longer to find its legs?
And yes — the lack of pressure is a concern. I think there are some reasons though. Tennessee’s tackles are top notch for a start and played very well. Marcus Mariota was getting the ball out very quickly. And as noted in the piece, it seems like we’re asking Bennett/Richardson/Avril to be our chief run defenders not just our best and most experienced pass rushers. If they’re playing 80% of the snaps, that’s not really how many of us thought this D-line would thrive.
For what it’s worth the defense had an exceptional first half and by the end, both units were being pulled apart likely due to the conditions. But I see very little reason to label Kris Richard’s this weeks scapegoat if people are fancying a week off from Cable and Bevell bashing.
And it’s funny — nobody is highlighting how the defensive minded Head Coach, Pete Carroll, was potentially ‘out-coached’ by offensive minded Mike Mularkey.
are you saying coaching is not an issue?
has to be either a lack of talent, or coaching.
Now maybe the talent is over rated, but when players are not in position, who should get the blame?
Not that I worship at the alter of PFF, but they had only 2 pressures recorded all game against Mariota. 4 pro bowl caliber players on the d line, they got none.
Did the OC for Tenn out coach Richard? How can you say no to that?
Their O line dominated the Seattle D line.
Something has to be someone’s fault. And if you are saying the players are talented, but did not play well, or were not used properly, or overused, then why can we not say the coaching is an issue? Not about scapgoating, more about trying to see where the actual problem is.
If they players are not playing disciplined and hitting their fits, it’s on the players, IMO. It’s up to the coaches to get them back into the fundamentals the following week.
I’m not saying coaching is blameless.
I just think it’s too easy to point a finger at a coordinator, offense or defense, and sometimes miss the necessary perspective.
all problems will be a combination of coaching, players and circumstance, combined with the opponent on that particular day.
I am just on the fence with Richard. Let’s face it, he is plan C after the other 2 DC’s left.
I have no doubt he was a very good DB coach, and that PC has a lot of influence over how he coaches and game plans. Is he a good DC? I am not sure, either way. The lack of pressure with the talent on hand is very concerning. Just my opinion, but the lack of pressure has been since last year, and it relates to a lack of turnovers.
my big question is, as the offences adjust to the Hawks D over the last 3 years, how has the Hawks D adjusted to compensate?
I don’t think Pete hires him if he wasn’t ready. Dan Quin had a lot more to work with, IMO. Up until the second half of the Titan game, the Seattle defense had been playing some pretty good ball, and there is still a lot of football left in the season. I can understand why some would be on the fence with Richard, but I think he’s been solid.
Seattle defense and Tennessee defense played same number of snaps with about 4 mins of play time for Seattle. How can only our defense gets gassed out. We did not give up points in 4th rather coming out of half time break 3 straight drives. What did Kris do to bring more pressure? What he was doing when our defense is giving up big plays drive after drive?
I’ll take Josh Rosen over Sam Darnold right now. His mechanics are sloppy as hell. Arm goes one way while his lower body is pointed the other way. Won’t work at the next level.
Gonna be interesting to see how teams treat Rosen. If there wasn’t such a dearth of good QB’s, hell let’s be honest. Just a lack of exciting talent all across the board at the pro level, I could see him sliding ala Aaron Rodgers. More likely scenario however, it’s a James Winston type deal.
Darnold’s mechanics are ugly but I take him #1 all day. To turn a program around like USC mid season tells me all I need to know> But then again I loved Deshawn Watson last year. I just think at that position character is the single most important thing.
Eeven with Winston no one questioned his leadership or love of the game.
Rosen just looks terrific. But I think Darnold does too. Really like both. Rosen more orthodox though.
I dig Rosen the Chosen, but Darnold just seems like a gamer. I agree, his mechanics are off, if he gets with the right coach, he could end up going to pro bowls annually.
Speaking of this pass rush, Seattle go get Georgia’s Lorenzo Carter!
6’5, 245. 4.6 speed, 40″, length for days, can play in space, hand in the dirt, as a walk up LB.
Through 4 games, 4.5 TFL, 3.0 QB sacks, 5 QB hurries, 2 FF, and 15 QB pressures.
https://mobile.twitter.com/mikebrez5/status/912924336608202752/video/1
With Carter and Roquon Smith they have an NFL talent LB group at Georgia.
He has looked great the two Georgia games on National TV against solid OL talent. Have to think with his profile and production a big riser.
Could he be our replacement for Avril when he fills out that frame? or do you think he stays as a OLB.
I think he’s a Bruce Irvin type at the next level.
Mentioned on Saturday that there’s not many guys that possess his size, length, and raw athleticism.
Clemson DE Austin Bryant is another interesting prospect. He’s who people (myself included) thought former Clemson DE Kevin Dodd was and is.
You know what’s really killing the Seahawks offense? Lack of commitment to the run. The best we’ve done this year as a team was 34% called run plays in the first half of the Titans game. We only ran twice in the second half.
Someone pointed out on the post-game reaction post that we abandoned the run because it wasn’t working. I would counter that with the Titans’ stats. The first half they ran 17 times for 32 yards, and were no more effective running than we were. But they kept at it and it paid. In the second half they ran 18 times for 163 yards. That is what commitment to the run looks like, and that’s what it gets you.
We need to be committed. We need to be the team winning the time of possession battle. We need to be the team gassing our opponents defense. Not the other way around.
I think there is some truth to this Mark. So far the offense looks eerily like the 2016 version that lost, in Carroll’s words, 100 rushes compared to previous years. And that is a concern.
I do also think though there is some legitimacy to the point Carroll keeps making about third downs. Converting third downs is the key to everything. It’s very hard to establish anything when you go three and out. Sometimes a pass to get things rolling and get some momentum can launch you into the run, can help set it up. Getting a few drives that are 7-9 plays instead of three, even if they don’t end in points, could be the key to committing more to the run.
Sometimes teams will also set up purposely to stop Seattle’s running game because they know what we want to do. And they maybe don’t respect Seattle’s passing game so go all out to stop the run. In those scenarios, especially at the start of games, the offense would be running head first into a three and out most likely and wouldn’t be doing anything to force a defense to alter their thinking. If a team puts eight or nine in the box, throwing the ball is undoubtedly the wiser play calling move. And if you succeed, you don’t see as many eight or nine box sets.
So while I appreciate the feeling about commitment to the run, there are possibly reasons why we aren’t seeing them just running right at defenses early in games. I think we’ll see more of that vs the Colts though.
I hope so. I’m tired of the mentality from Bevell that that if he ran on first down and only got two yards, that the run has failed and now he has to pass. That’s not the way we played in 2013. Run it again. If it gets you another five yards, you’re in better position at 3rd and 3, than if a 2nd down pass went incomplete. Hell even if it went for only another 2 yards you’re in better position than an incomplete pass.
And incomplete first down runs don’t mean you automatically need to abandon the run, for the same rationale mentioned above. Mix it up so the defense doesn’t know what’s coming. Truly strive for a 50/50 split of run to pass. Teams that commit to the run see the effectiveness of the run increase as the game wears on. If you want to impress your will on a team on offense, you need to run often. You need to be the contact initiator, not the contact recipient.
it helps if the line can actually run block.
Running is great, but not if it does not work.
Maybe throwing to set up the run works better, but if the line is getting dominated by average D lines, and Lacy is too slow, and Rawls is not effective, then running more to get 2 or 3 yards is not solving much.
Tenn stuck with it, but they have a much better line and better runners
at this point, not much change can be expected from the line from a personnel point of view, so let’s hope they improve and that they adjust their game plans to something that works.
Otherwise, going to be a frustrating year
I would counter that by saying Seattle has a much better defense than Tennessee. And yet despite that, they wore us down to where their running game which could only manage 32 yards on their first 17 carries, managed 150 yards on their next 17.
Our O-line wasn’t as good as theirs, but their D wasn’t nearly as good as ours, and I think the affect of pounding them with the frequency they pounded us would have had a similar result, and maybe our defense wouldn’t have had to be on the field for so many plays.
The other thing I will say about run -vs- pass, it is much easier to run block than pass block. That’s why linemen that excel at pass protection get the big bucks. Add to that that to be successful pass blocking, every man on the line has to successfully accomplish his assignment (it rarely happens with this line). With run blocking, if one man wins and creates a hole the back can find, the play is successful. Our odds of success are better running. It’s an easier assignment, and not everybody has to win his match-up. And running has long term benefits, it wears the opposing defense out.
spot on mark
And they’re going to continue to not to. They now have to put points on the boards and get those PC explosive plays.
You want explosive plays? Commit to running the ball. Most of the big plays won’t be runs, they’ll be passes off play action where the first step from the safeties and LBs is toward the line and our receivers come open behind them. That’s the way we used to do it.
I agree. PC is obsessed with these explosives because he knows there’s gonna be a ton of 3rd & longs in most games. He actively seeks these scenarios out.
Pete’s a riverboat gambler. He’ll sacrifice down and distance for these explosives. Thing is though, most teams and its probably what he’s trying to accomplish as well, will get a handful of drives where they avoid 3rd down altogether.
A handful may be too rich. A few would be more apt.
Until the Seahawks can average more than 3 yards per carry it is a moot point. They can’t sustain a drive on 3 yards a carry. By the time the other teams defense is worn down- which will be in the second half after Seahawks have had 10-12, three and out plays, the game will be over.
The problem is this. There is what the fans want = a hard hitting smash mouth football team. And there is what the players and coaches are actually capable of doing. The Seahawks are simply not able to run the ball consistently right now. The Seahawks are not capable of holding off pass rushers for more than 4 seconds. The sooner they design plays to take those facts into account, the sooner they will be successful.
I thought this was pretty cool Watson donating his first game check to the Texans stadium workers. Really seems like a quality kid. I love what our QB does in community with the kids hospital as well. Little things that mean alot to those affected.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2735585-deshaun-watson-donates-1st-game-check-to-stadium-workers-affected-by-hurricane
Well now the cat is out of the bag, the NFL will be changed forever! Most Americans including the Republican NFL fans are now learning that the NFL has been operating under tax exempt status which enables the NFL enormous benefits which including higher profit margins. Another great example would be the New Orleans Saints who do not pay rent for their stadium. Michael Bennett will soon learn that he pissed off half of America & as a result enormous pressure is now being put on the NFL advertisers to drop the NFL, and today Republican senators are putting together plans to drop the tax exempt status of the NFL. This has been brewing for a while, before Kaepernick starting when ESPN started promoting liberalism then came Kap and then came Bennett. Where it stands now is half of the voting population of America (Republicans & Many Independants) will back the US government dropping the NFL tax exempt status & don’t forget once non football people learn the NFL has been tax exempt they will freak out. It’s a done deal! Sherman & Bennett need to understand lots of Conservatives were their fans & most NFL fans who vote are conservatives =60% even though most Seahawk fans might be Liberal. I strongly urge You guys to do what you can to save the NFL before anymore damage is done! Also before you guys start slamming Republicans, the fact is this tax exempt thing started during the Obama administration. Sidney Blumenthall Democrate Senator of NY rallied the Democrates to drop the NFL tax exempt status because the NFL fans lean conservative, the NFL horrified of the reality of loosing its tax exempt status cut a deal with the Democrates allowing the Democrates to occupy key positions in the NFL including Public Relations. As the NFL, media, & Espn flooded America with liberal propaganda Republicans watched in fury but still not willing to give up their beloved NFL. Michael Bennett & Kaepernick pushed everyone over the edge but when Richard Sherman bad mouthed booing fans & insinuated those fans were a minority & a joke, war was declared, not even Trump can save the NFL from the billions the NFL has now lost. The only question now is will the NFL survive? If players continue to disrespect Trump its over making the NBA & MLB very happy!
Pretty sure this political screed isn’t wanted here.
Ian is right. Let’s keep it on track fellas.
*Message deleted*
This is Rob. I deleted this message because its content is highly inappropriate and will not be tolerated. Let me make this clear. This is a place where I want people of all ages to visit. I don’t want swearing, talking about adult subject matter, arguments over politics or any of that stuff. I want to talk about football, Seahawks and the draft. Simple.
without getting into a Liberal vs Conservative debate, you have to admit that the Conservatives do seem to have more of the crazy, paranoid types.
Lmao, are you kidding me? Antifa? Hillary as your nominee? The gun shots raining down on her? Let’s call a spade a spade, liberals are the crazy ones. Conservatives are the even keel side.
Both extremes are crazy, however, I would say the ratio of those extremes is much larger for the liberal side.
The last 4 years of Clinton until now, yes, even when Obama was supposed to bring hope and change, politics (on the senate floor and in the public) is not about listening or working with the other side.
But this blog isn’t for politics. But if the NFL doesn’t find a solution fast, I might stick to Saturdays and then go to exclusive Hockey. I love that sport.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/nflexempt.asp
Its my opinion (and I assume a lot of players opinion) that making a peaceful statement to raise awareness that young black men being killed by police officers who aren’t being held accountable is more important than the NFL, or make a few more million during ones career. They have families they answer to, their time in the NFL is limited, they get the bigger picture.
To me this is not a ‘flag’ or disrepect issue, those people bothered are missing the point for whatever reason (and I have a hunch why).
I think this is what Kap was hoping for, I hope it helps and I don’t care what it does to the NFL.
IMO, Trump is trying to change the narrative that it is about disrespecting instead of it being the peaceful protest that is was always intended, some are getting sucked into that, the news is running wild with it, but the reality of it is that it is largely detracting from the much more severe issues of Puerto Rico, and the bats**t crazy stuff going on with North Korea.
As for football, the NFL is here to stay. Monday Night Football just had one of its highest rated game in years. If some folks don’t want to follow, they certainly don’t have to. If they want to turn in their tickets, there’s going to be plenty that will be more than happy to scoop them up.
I can understand why some would want to take a knee, and I can understand why some would be upset with that. It’s called empathy. It’s a word that’s being floated around a lot lately, and I’m sure we are going to hear it a lot more. I don’t care if you are a liberal or a conservative. On this forum, I don’t really want to know, but one thing I do know is that if you are calling the other side “paranoid” or “crazy” your empathy tank, as a human being, is probably running below Empty.
Go Hawks
Its also a country founded on beliefs and religious freedom. These players have a right to express themselves openly and freely.
And what does Trump know about football? Dude ran the USFL into the ground like most of his businesses.
Well stated.
I think people should be happy that players are standing up (or kneeling as the case may be) for others who do not have a voice to be heard and are doing so at some risk to their jobs, as they have seen with Kap. What is wrong with peaceful protest? What if Jackie Robinson and Martin Luther King did nothing to change things?
The government opened the gates by playing the anthem and having jets fly over the games and making the start of a game a political event.
btw, to Kyle. I support neither party, don’t live in the US, but find your politics entertaining (and scary!). Hillary is corrupt, terrible example of a liberal and Trump is a terrible example of a conservative. Neither party represents the true meaning of left or right, and that statement can be said of almost every other western government.
now on to Sunday! Can the Hawks crush the Colts, or do they win a squeaker???
This Sunday I think the Colts come into Century Field feeling good about things with their solid win, only to face a flock of some very angry ravenous birds, and they get dismantled on national television. Seattle wins comfortably.
Well said!
“allowing the Democrates to occupy key positions in the NFL including Public Relations”? This is garbled conspiracy theory nonsense.
More importantly, how do we get the Seahawks to dial in their offense from the very first snap? If that happens, the defense can give up some touchdowns but we still win most games. If our offense played the whole game like we played the second half against the Titans we would be 3-0, even with our OL difficulties.
I believe part of the reason for lack of pass rush against the Titans was the plan. At least I hope it was, I wouldn’t have pinned my ears back and went upfield against Mariota either, too much of a chance he burns you with his legs. At least I hope this was part of the reason.
RIP Hugh Hefner.
1st amendment and boobs gone in the same week? Crazy times.
According to the Supreme Court, protesting at work is not a 1st Amendment right.
also not disallowed according to a collectively bargained agreement.
So if the NFL wants to ban it and piss off 70% of its players, it will have to negotiate for it. Which means giving up $$$ or a lawsuit.
NFL owners don’t like to lose $$$.
Can’t order to them to stand for the anthem. And if you do, there will be a reaction. Say 5 owners demand the players stand “or else”. What happens next year in free agency? Will players say, we are not going there? What owner wants that?
Owners are better off not getting too involved, they lose either way. Might lose more one way, but Pandora’s box is open.
At what point do we point to the defense and just say “do your job” even if they have to play a few extra snaps? Their effort in the second half of the Tennessee game was infuriating, especially after Russell led the offense on a great touchdown drive after halftime that gave the Seahawks the lead again after the defense squandered it before halftime and burned five minutes from the clock in the third quarter. Indeed, the defense would have just had at least a 20-30 min break with halftime and the Seahawks offensive drive. What happened next? The defense gave up THREE touchdowns, losing the game for the team.
This is a defense that’s the highest paid in the league, and is one of the top three “sides of the ball” in the NFL today – second only to the Steelers and Raiders who have paid their offense. If the Steelers and Raiders don’t score enough to counteract the play of their defense, the loss has to fall on the big money stars that didn’t execute. The money is on that side of the ball.
With the Seahawks, if the defense allows more points than the offense can reliably score, then that loss is on them. The Defense is expected to play the majority of the snaps and not break down. If they can’t, then we need to move some of that money to players on the other side of the ball, or new players who can.
‘Member we are a cold weather, turf team. We got run over at San Diego a few years ago in September when it was a 100 degrees on the field. The defense wilted in the second half against a legit team.
Watch that Titan team – they will be in the Super Bowl in the next year or two. They remind of us a few years ago, with a better offensive line, nasty running game that crushes your will in the second half, and a taller quarterback.
The Titans would smash NE right now if the playoffs were today.
I think this D is fed up and demoralized with this soft, prissy a”” offense.
That’s unacceptable. They’re paid too much to not carry the team, whatever the offense is doing, to a W.
If Russell and the offense explode and the Seahawks score 30+ points, that should be an extra bonus.
As a cold weather Alaskan I agree with the weather comment. It doesn’t matter how athletic you are, you have to practice in those conditions to be able to play in them. That includes extreme freezing (Vikings playoff game had too many injuries) and hot weather (last week) and rocky mountains (Denver’s natural advantage).
Just a thought: Pocic at C, move Britt back to a guard spot?
I know we feel comfortable having finally settled at least one spot on the OL with Britt, but Cable says most of his improvement is not due to the position switch, but to experience. Assuming that’s not as wrong as everything else that comes out of Cable’s mouth (a HUGE assumption), Britt should be just as good at G as at C. Or close. And Glow/Aboushi’s G spot is either the weakest link on the line or the 2nd weakest, by far.
And we just drafted a guy in the 2nd round who played a pretty good C for the past two years in college who is now sitting on the bench giving us nothing. Not to mention he might be able to avoid the low snaps from Britt that hurt us several times vs. the Titans.
Could it be possible that Pocic-Britt is better than Britt-Glow/Aboushi? Or is it as simple as leave Britt and hope Pocic shows enough to eventually take over at G?
I agree that they should be using Pocic, seems like they are saving him for the inevitable line injuries. Anyway= when they finally play him and it turns out that he is better than the others, it will just be written down as another weird coaching decision. It seems like the Seahawks are locked into giving some of there other players a chance. But as they fail = it is time to cut out some deadwood. I had high hopes for Glowinski, seems like his last chance will be left guard or tackle, or he will be cut next summer.
Weird coaching decision to make him sit out the season.
or he is not ready. He did not look great in preseason. Probably needs the year to adjust to NFL speed, get stronger, etc. Too much pressure on draft pics to play better than vets. Rarely happens.
Gonna see a ton of Carson on Sunday in the passing game. It’s kind of ironic that Seattle wants to become this pass heavy offense, has 4 RBs and only 1 can play on 3rd downs. A 7th round goddamn rookie!
Well 2, but Prosise is a as soft as butter unfortunately while Rawls and Lacy ain’t anything close to being 3 down backs.
I don’t know if he’s soft. Like Rawls, he’s just made of glass.
I want to see Carson and McKissic displace Lacy, Rawls, Prosise. Need some consistency/energy at RB; time to move on from Rawls (reconstructed ankle), Lacy (slow), Prosise (soft).
Even though Prosise is injury-prone it’s absolutely too early to move on from him. Just last week he showed what a weapon he can be in the passing game and he’s still on a cheap rookie contract. Even if he’s only your 3rd or 4th RB, you still let him play out the rest of this contract and decide what to do after that.
Agree.
Instead of ‘move on,’ maybe just lower expectations. He’s a frustrating cat.
+1
100% Yes
Yeah I don’t think you move on from him either just use him as your 3rd RB like Logan said.
Unless Lacy or Rawls snap out of whatever funk they’re in or if, big if, Seattle’s run blocking gets better, this team just doesn’t have enough at RB. Its ridiculous to rely on a 7th round rookie to handle such a potentially heavy workload so early in his career no matter how good he may end up.
It’s a bit deflating that we’re in this situation now when just a month ago most of us were crowing about our RB depth.
I really think Mike Davis should be on the active roster. He might be the 2nd best *healthy* back we have after Carson. I would rather have him in the game than McKissic.
i think we are missing a playmaker to keep the Defense honest ala Tyreek Hill, Tarik Cohen. Hope they use more of Lockett.
I like this, why not a jet sweep with Lockett/Prosise/McKissic every once in a while? Even if it only goes for a couple yards, still keeps Defenses on their toes. I also like the idea of more designed runs for Wilson. Again, not all the time, but at least 1-2 times a game. I think we’d probably see more of this if we didn’t have so much trouble getting rolling and then digging into a hole.
I also have trouble with all of the long developing pass plays on 1st down. I think you run or look for a short pass 5-10 yards on first down so that you have some momentum going into 2nd down. If you are very successful (6+ yards), you can try a longer play on 2nd down knowing you have 3rd down to convert a more reasonable distance, or if you end up with 2-3 yards you can look for another short play to get you in better position for 3rd down.
I get that you have to be somewhat unpredictable with you play calling to keep the D honest, but I hate to see us try for a long passing play on 1st down and end up with 2nd & 10 or worse if there’s a holding call or a sack and then we end up giving the Defense an upper hand for 2nd and 3rd down by being forced into certain plays in order to try to get back to the sticks.
I believe all our coaches are talented, hard-working individuals and I’m sure that my arm-chair analysis disregards the tons of work that they put into scheming, self scouting and studying opponents weaknesses. I’d just like to see us try to be a bit more focused on trying to get that initial 1st down before we start taking big shots downfield so that we can establish some sort of rhythm.
While starting out 1-2 is depressing, I’m still pretty optimistic that this team can be one of the better Seahawks teams that we’ve seen if they can tweak a few things and get some confidence going. It may well be that the streak Russ went on in the 2nd half sparks this offense into what we thought it could be before the season started.
Prosise doesn’t play soft per se, not like Graham does.
He just is always banged up. Maybe he just doesn’t want to play through things other players play through? Football players play through injuries all the time. Part of the sport.
No he don’t play soft, but he takes stupid unnecessary hits.
Its one thing I hate hearing about college RBs. ‘He goes out of bounds too much.’ Does he? Or is he avoiding risk? It’s one thing too fight for extra yardage on 3rd down or whatever, but play situational football.
Can I agree more than 1000%? If so, yes. Nothing more dumb to me than creating a culture where a RB 18 yards downfield slams into a DB right on the sidelines with no hope/expectation of actually trucking him, only to get maybe an extra foot while giving the DB the satisfaction of laying into the RB and risking injury. Why? Not getting to hit a guy is demoralizing.
Prosise is not a thumper. No reason to take unnecessary hits for little reward.
Apparently you have to try and run like Marshawn Lynch to play in Seattle. I mean its not like there’s different shapes and sizes at the position that are successful elsewhere around the league. Oh wait. There is.
Yes- We all love Carson’s effort until he gets hurt. But at least he is a running back and is expected to take a hit. I have bigger issues with Doug Baldwin or Richardson or Lockett trying to gain an extra yard when it isn’t needed.
Hot take:
The notion that o line play around the league is “rotten” is overblown.
Defensive lines are supposed to make plays. Only takes one “win” by a d-line, against one “o-line”, the affect the game.
Oh giver of the hottest of hot takes, care to explain your argument in this statement?
Your sentence stating that the poor OL play is being overblown leads one to think that OL play across the league is average or better. Certainly no worse than normal.
You then go on to state that DL are supposed to make plays and one win by a DL affects the game. Is this statement supposed to mean that DL are getting progressively better? If we assume that to be true, wouldn’t that conversely make OL play worse by definition? If DL are making more “plays” and getting more “wins”, then by definition the OL would be getting more “losses” and thus be playing worse.
Scoring has only gone up in the league over time. I would hardly think this is a byproduct of o-line play on average becoming “worse”
Defensive line have always been better athletes than OFfensive Line historically. This is nothing new. Defensive linemen need to be more athletically as they need to physically dominate the offensive lineman in front of them to have any impact on the play.
There are always teams with bad OLs as well this is nothing new. No different than any other position group.
There is no question the college game is having a negative impact on the quality of OL coming to the NFL but is it any worse than the quality of QBs or DBs for example?
I don’t disagree with your points. My reply was merely about the fundamental structure of the argument. If the OP would’ve said that DL are historically better athletes than OL, but now the gap is widening (i.e. DL are becoming better athletes at a faster rate than OL), I can see the correlation.
And your take, nichansen01, would be valid if we were only witnessing the odd play here and there in games to emphasise how bad O-lines are in general.
We aren’t.
I know Seahawks fans wish to believe our situation is unique, but it really isn’t. The Giants fan base/media and the Cardinals fan base/media have been having the same conversations we’ve been having for the last two weeks. And that’s just two examples off the top of my head.
Also cable today was saying the reason for bad o-line play was twitter and bloggers having high expectations… cable needs to go. Hire anyone off the street, they’d probably coach better than cable.
Dunno what I expected him to say but he basically blamed everyone but himself or his line for poor play. Not a good look for him.
Source 😷
Nevermind I found it
He’s clearly talking about the stars of the team, Russ in particular.
You missed the point entirely, too.
Penn St. WR Juwan Johnson a R-SO is 6’4,220-225 has 10″ hands and 37″ arms and ran just under 22 seconds in the 200 meter dash!? That’s 4.5-4.6 speed. Good lord.
We’ll see how long he really is. Every measurement varies even during draft season. But that is some freak s*** right there.
Not a great WR class in terms of SR’s but if some of these underclassmen come out? There’s some big boys that very talented.
This kid
SMU’s Courtland Sutton
Florida St’s Auden Tate
ND’s Equanimeous St. Brown
I would draft those dudes on names alone. Equanimeous? Can’t make that shit up.
My favorite name so far is Olasunkanme Adenyi OLB Toledo.
Despite all of the wailing about the game in Tennessee, I have a few observations. We lost by 6 points. Vegas will give the home team 3, as a rule. Nashville requires a bit of travel. Then there is the weather report, and the time of possession. Those are not insignificant elements.
Finally, Tennessee is not a push over, and may make some noise this season.
Just sayin’.
Seattle will always struggle on the road no matter what. They travel further than 95% of teams.
So Jeremy Lame gets ejected for phantom punches but Chicago LB Danny Trevathan got to keep playing after that hit tonight? Seems reasonable.
I understand the frustration, but these 2 situations are apples and oranges.
Lane ejection: a “potential” unsportsmanslike penalty for throwing a punch. A punch should not exist in the game of football period. I think the official got it wrong and no ejection should’ve happened.
Trevathan hit: He did lower his head. At the same time, Adams was being spun by the other tackler and his level dropped a little bit. In a perfect situation, Trevathan would’ve blasted him in the sternum area.
I think officiating this year, while trying to be more consistent with full-time refs has been horrible overall. Ghost oenalties, missed calls and even delays in calls being made.
My problem with the situation is that people are up in arms about the Trevathan hit, but seem to gloss over the Ha Ha hit from earlier in the game. The WR was going to the ground and Clinton-Dix delivered a blow directly to the back of his head. Since the WR was already going down, it would be almost impossible to guess where he would end up so I’m sure Ha Ha didn’t mean to hit him like he did.
That being said, why is the Trevathan hit being touted as so much worse? They were both dangerous and probably unintended in my view and should be treated the same. Recency bias maybe. The Trevathan hit came later so people forgot about the Ha Ha hit.
A punch shouldn’t exist but using your helmet as a weapon can?
What’s it gonna take for some fans and the NFL? When a guy f**king dies out on the field?
Fundamental football is garbage right now. Why is Trevathan lowering his head? That’s something you learn at 10 years old never to do. ‘Eyes up.’
Get rid of all pads and helmets
I don’t want helmets shots either. I’m just saying they occur and punches shouldn’t at all.
He lowered his head… Completely in the wrong for it. Had Adams level not changed, he would’ve blasted him in the sternum and potentially hurt himself (neck). It needs to be cleaned up. A suspenion/fine can change his mindset.
D.J Swearinger is prime example of that. Made some questionable hits early in his career, was suspended/fined a bunch. It even caused him to bounce around. He is the leader of the WAS secondary now…
for those of you who want Walter Jones opinion on the hawks O line and Tom Cable, here you go
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/9/28/16382246/seahawks-podcast-walter-jones-interview-podcast-talks-seahawks-o-line-problems-tom-cable-pff-grades
spoiler alert:
some good news. Walt does not think Cable is bad. (or bad news for some, I guess)
Some bad news. Took Walt 4 years to make a pro bowl, and says guys need at least 3 years to figure out their job and the league. Look out NFL for the 2019 Seahawks O line!
You realize he was on there promoting the work he is doing for an anti-troll social media company right? Do you really think he would get on there talking crap about guys?
I do agree it take 2-3 years for any player to get fully up to speed in the NFL. Is it any different for any other position except maybe RB?
Maybe pass rushing specialists? Guys like Bosa, Mack, Miller, Beasley, etc. seem like they can come in and make an impact early. I’m not saying they’re complete players in their first year, but the pass rushing skill seems to carry over early.
Good point.
as excited as everyone gets for the draft, better to look at last 2 drafts to see where the big improvement can come from this year, and that applies to most teams.
in that light, have to say it is disappointing to see nothing from Vannett this year. If they thought he was ready, he would be out there.
Reed does not seem better (so far this year), and would be real excited about Procise if he was healthy.
I don’t expect much from Pocic, Darboh, Hill this year. I think Griffin and Carson are making an impact. Crossing my fingers for Malik next year
I think it was interesting what he said and what he did not say.
He did not throw anyone under the bus, but he did say the line has not played well.
Love that Kenny got the interview! Really really wish Rob had been on the call to ask Big Walt some questions.
He and Hutch really were an historically great left side of the OL.
oh to have a couple of guys like that again on the O line!
Cable isn’t bad. He’s a product of his environment.
I think the problem with Cable is twofold.
1. He is asked to turn young players into a functioning o line before they are ready. And some are not even O linemen! And some of the o linemen are just never going to be good, no matter the coach. Hard to make him look good.
2. He has some weird power sharing arrangement with Bevel for run vs pass. I think this is the deeper issue. I think players see a conflict with regards to who is in charge and it confuses them. Don’t want players to think about what to do, we want them to act on instinct. Thinking stops that.
I also think Wilson is far more culpable than he is given credit for. So much of OL play is on QB-Center calls.
Cable literally just called out Russ saying he was rattled by fans and media, in my estimation. I gotta think a lot of the on field problems with the line stem from miscommunication between Britt-Cable-Carroll-Bevell-Wilson
Its a five-headed problem. And I think Wilson needs to be the one to fix it by slowing down the game and stop trying to have a “fast offense”
Such a weird period in his development where he’s trying to evolve and be Aaron Rodgers. And the coaching staff isn’t committing to the run or read option.
You can tell when they open up the playbook, instead of these deep drops and slow-developing routes back-to-back that put our defense on the field all game.
Have we won the T.O.P. battle yet this year??
i cannot disagree about Wilson being part of the problem.
He has games where he plays like an MVP, then games where he is average.
he can be elite, but he is not there yet. May never get there.
I hate to agree with Prisco, but let’s not but him up with Brady and Rodgers until he deserves it.
He is a franchise QB, but he cannot carry the team.
And I agree that he is not calling out the protection changes at the line of scrimmage and I bet other teams know it also. He has to improve at that for the o line to improve. He can see the whole field, the O line just sees the guy in front of him.
If the injuries to the Green Bay RB’s are serious, any chance they make a trade to get Lacy back?
I couldn’t see it happening. Seen stranger things though.
With a bad case of insomnia, I just rewatched the game for the THIRD time trying to figure out what our biggest issues are…
QB: As Rob pointed out, Russ’ drop backs affect the OL greatly. It also alters timing with the WRs. Russ has shown issues in throwing high when he isn’t settled in and he missed several throws early in this game. Settled down, but seems to rely too heavily on Houdini-escapes. That intentional grounding play really pissed me off.
RB: Outside of Carson, the RB corps had been putrid. Prosise made some good catches, but again he’s hurt and will missed at least 1 game. We should just put him in bubble wrap until a run for the playoffs and pray he doesn’t get hurt then. Rawls will need more touches to get acclimated. Lacy showed some ineffectiveness and I truly question if the weight loss has changed him as a RB.I think patience will be the key with Lacy. I do expect him to get involved with some of the struggles we’re experiencing.
WR: Baldwin is Baldwin and that is awesome! Richardson is making plays and I think Lockett will make plays down the stretch. I’d like to see more of Darboh, but our offense can’t stay on the field long enough for the starters to ever break a sweat.
TE: First off, I know Graham isn’t 100%. He is frustrating to watch! I can’t tell if it is unjustly high expectations, but he doesn’t block and has dropped many easy passes in the 1st 3 games. Willson showed to be a good blocker and made a nice TD catch. My feeling on Vannett is the same above as Darboh. I know its early, but if I had a BIG name player to not re-sign, Graham is that guy right now.
OL: While Russ creates issues, I am going to attribute a lot of concerns to timing. Odhiambo still is unsettled and it isn’t his fault 100%. His first few steps (2-3 primarily) seem cautious and strictly reaction. I know many will say “that’s is job to react and adjust according to the DEF”. It is, but it’s also about timing and angles. He doesn’t play confident. Same can be said for Ifedi in pass pro. I believe it is about 50% confidence and when they’re getting beat down every week, they’re in their own heads. Aboushi seemed to play with a sense of mean and played through the whistle.
DL: Working a better rotation and getting people breathers will be vital to this unit and overall DEF success. They’re on the field too long and even the best players on the field at all times will get tired. Richardson is proving why we traded for him.
LB: Bobby and KJ played their butts off. Seeing Bobby step in to calm Sherman was a positive sign of leadership/maturity. Reducing their snaps over the season will be a big help as well. Losing McDonald sucks (very good ST).
DB: Sherman’s intensity is rubbing people the wrong way again. It’s one thing when it fires teammates up, it’s another when Kam and ET have to grab him and tell him to shut up. Griffin is getting better by the week and that is a great thing. Lane is looked hot/cold during the game. The safeties looked good to me. Earl was a missile. Kam was Kam. Health is the key!
Overall game thoughts: TEN isn’t a bad team. With a revamped secondary (including one of Rob’s favs A. Jackson), a good running game and a growing Mariotta, they have a chance to make waves. On top of the humidity and woes on the offense, our defense was beaten-dog tired. We could never expect our bubble gum/super glued OL to perform like perennial Pro Bowlers. Russ took a big step forward and I still think this is an 11-5 team. #gohawks
God bless this man for watching this trash team more than once.
We’re not that bad. We have A LOT of work to be elite, but this was a “circumstance” game in my opinion.
Elite has passed this team by and I’ve come to grips with that. They can still be very good, but the window is one wind gust away from being slammed shut on them.
Hope your right though.
This is a little bleak for me.
We have plenty of pieces and plenty of depth.
We just don’t have a superstar at running back anymore.
I don’t even think they need a superstar per se’ at the RB position.
We talk about them not having an identity. I mentioned they don’t even know who they are and I think that’s true. How could they? What they need is somebody, anybody to step up and carry this team offensively for a stretch of games. Only then will they figure what they are.
Trash is a bit much for me. I do think they’re more a Packers than a Patriots. By that I mean a seasonal playoff contender but not a dynasty. Must be frustrating for the Packers like it is for us. All these years with Rodgers and only one ring. They’re hoping for a top 10 D to push them over the edge just like we’re clamoring for a league average o line to push us over the edge. I think the Hawks are stuck in a playoff contender mode (i.e. 9-11 wins) and not super bowl contender mode (12+wins). The quicker we realize this, the quicker we can stop laying unearthly expectations on them. Personally, I’m not gonna watch them much this season until they get their act together on offense.
every team is flawed, so there is hope. Let’s see where Atl and KC are at week 10. I seem to recall Vikings fans talking about a Super Bowl after 5 games last year.
really comes down to the o line getting just a little better and the running backs getting a little better.
That would make a huge difference. Give Russell 1 second more to see the field, have a RB get 4 yards instead of 1 or 2. All of a sudden, you are making 3rd downs, defense has some rest and a lead.
I have some concerns about the defense, but if we stop thinking that 2013 is coming back, a top 5 D with a 10th best O can win it all.
also very, very possible the O line is a problem all year and we are one and out. Week 5 is the next test.
Trash may be a bit harsh. But there’s no denying that they are playing like that at the moment.
Certainly the o line is among the weakest if not the single weakest unit in the entire NFL. What keeps me from getting really excited about this team is that they need the no. 1 or 2 seed in the NFC to even have a shot at going to the big dance. In reality, most of your super bowl teams are a 1 or 2 seed. Problem is this team looks like a 3 or 4 seed, maybe a wild card should the Rams really take a huge leap forward.
the scary thing is the o line is like 25th in running and 14th is pass protection, or something like that. I think that was Football Outsiders.
so lots of competition this year for the worst O line.
it is just an easy thing for the “experts” to declare the hawks have done nothing to h=fix their o line and are doomed. They have done things, they might not work, and they may be doomed. But I will hope they get better and we have a happy ending. And I love happy endings….
forgot to say
well thought out analysis
Good job House!
Thanks Hawk Eye.
Its easy to see how good this team is and frustrating when they struggle. Hopefully we turn it around and only continue to improve.
On a side note, I saw something saying calling for Tobin to get a shot at LT. I was reading something saying Battle looked like he could come in and compete for LT, but I’ve literally heard nothing about him. Anyone have any update or news?
The Hawks are not an 11 win team. I’m thinking 9-7 maybe….
So if the Seahawks are on national news outlets like CNN I guess it’s OK for my fun fact of the day yeah? I mean if everyone’s asking for it. j/k
Puerto Rico is an island surrounded by water. How many of us knew that? And not just any kind either. ‘Big water.’ ‘Ocean water.’
and who said the edumacational system needs improving???
who needs school?
we have the Edumatainer of the Year!
3 more years, 3 more years
Seattle back scouting USC again.
And apparently there’s no one else on either one of these teams they could be scouting. Its exclusively Falk and Darnold.
Seahawks could be going QB in the first round!
Don’t laugh about it. This front office has shown poor judgement with taking big moves (Harvin, Graham, Richardson, McDowell, Lacy etc
Harvin, hard to argue that its poor judgement because he was still an importsnt piece to winning the superbowl, lots of teams would trade a first for that, just because he became a disturbance doesn’t mean it was poor judgement, the FO immediately accepted their mistake and traded him away. Jimmy Graham for Max Unger was a great trade, jimmy was almost a thousand yard receiver last year, he had 70 yards against the titans, oh and spoiler, JFG got 2 targets in greenbay last season. McDowell was a great pick but even Bill Bellicheck had to deal with Chandler Jones shit. They cant make these decisions for players, and Eddie Lacey hasn’t been great, but he hasn’t exactly gotten the ball, but thats more because he isn’t a back that can make 6 yards out of -2 yards. Once the o line starts opening up holes late in games Lacey will be putting it away for us. Also a one year deal isnt a big decision.
Is this targeted at Jared Stranger?
Who’s that?
That’s directed at NFL.com. Remember scouts word is gospel apparently.
USC LB Uchenna Nwosu could also be on their radar, and WSU’s DE Hercules Mata’afa (although he is junior) too.
Yeah, both of those 2 are very good.
Mata’afa to me is a lot like Frank Clark minus the insane athleticism. Meaning, he can be that undersized tweener who will shoot A and B gaps and win from the interior.
Mata’afa seems to me like a great college player who probably won’t become a major contributer in the pros
Disagree. He’s used on the interior to take advantage of his NFL level burst. He’s a man against boys. He’ll win at the next level with quickness and leverage.
Might not fit Seattle, but there’s a lot of things you could do with him. Move him all over the D-line, use him as a walk up/rush LB too.
Use him as a LEO- OLB. Quickest first step in CFB…
I wonder if HB Ronald Jones III is playing. PC and JS were both HUGE fans of Jamaal Charles and Jones, at least to my eyes, is the closest prospect in terms of comp’s to Charles in quite a few years.
Definitely looking at Jones, Falk, maybe O’Connel?
Green and that Bad #ss LBer from USC…
Rob I was wondering what your thoughts are with Russ. Having designed roll out on certain plays he can throw on the run and be able the see field and I really like the idea of two tight end formations
Love Marvell Tell, he’s ultra physical. Darnold just has it. His O line is Seahawks caliber bad but has this game tied. That 4th down conversion was insane.
Tell is a stud.
Sorry guys. Sam Darnold is overrated. He’s an awful decision maker.
Luke Falk is made of spare parts. Every time I watch him get hit I cringe.
Falk is an air raid QB. That system scares the sh** outta me.
Seattle wants a QB from this class? Is it because like RW they’re all regressing?
If Seattle wants to take a shot on Baker Mayfield, I’d be down with that. Guy’s got moxy.
I love Mayfield. Oh, I’m repeating myself!!!!
I’ve been pumping the brakes on Darnold a little bit more each week. If he’s not drafted by a team with much talent with the expectation of him being the savior, I don’t know, man. I don’t have that sure thing feeling when Luck was coming out.
Rosen is the guy.
I dig the Chosen, but I’ve been feeling the Mayfield, as well.
Shhh.. If Seattle liked Mahomes, I could see Mayfield. He’s a guy you could go get in round 3.
I doubt he lasts that long.
I do like Darnold’s ability to improvise and he’s real young. Could sees how that would appeal to a lot of teams, but he needs to be protected or he’ll panic and turn it over.
Yeah, he’s got some ridiculous physical skill. I jus cringe at the idea of him going to a team with not a lot of talent and a coaching staff that is going to ride him to play structured. It just reeks of Joey Harrington.
Oh he needs another year in college.
That’s kinda what I’m thinking.
I don’t trust NFL scouts when it comes to O-lineman and QBs. They’re dinosaurs in that regard.
Still like W. Virginia QB Will Grier too. He’s a winner man.
I gotta check him out.
He has already indicated he may not come out.
Darnold is definitely not a Luck type — but I doubt we’ll see another like Luck for a long old time. That was a disappointing performance from Darnold vs Wazzu. I’m sure he’ll bounce back though.
He definitely has the talent to do that. His ability to extend out of should be sacks, for a big guy, is jaw dropping at times.
I think Luck is overrated. He actually looks like Darnold under pressure. Gets rattled and throws too many interceptions. And no, it’s not all Oline fault or talent around him.
Luck isn’t overrated. It’s just become fashionable to slate him as a counterpunch to all the gushing praise. He’s a really good QB, mismanaged by a horrendous setup in Indianapolis.
What a terrific game.
I gotta say; I don’t know what he’s going to do at the next level, but Luke Falk was the better quarterback tonight. That last Darnold moment is an example why I think maybe there should be some pumping of the brakes on 2017 The Year of the Quarterback thing. Fantastic win by the Cougars.
Some interesting other than Darnold USC talent on Ronald Jones III, Iman Marshal, and Rasheem Green.
Great game by Falk, Jamal Morrow, Hercules, and DB Marcellus Pippins.
Morrow could be a nice late day 3 pickup.
And don’t let anyone fool ya. It’s the year of the RB.
Yeah, there’s some interesting talent out there.
I have to imagine Seattle is looking intently at a bunch of them. Lacy and Rawls can’t get it going after three games, Prosise has only proven how unreliable he is to stay healthy. I see Carson and that’s about it. It was obvious clear back in training camp.
Agreed. I’d like to see some of Mike Davis. I know they were bummed about missing out on him in the 2015 draft.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Davis called up some down the line.
U seen Miami HB Mark Walton yet?
‘Putting defenders in blenders’ Mark Walton vs Toledo (2017):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uGA-_WZXUEI
Nice. He’s got some aggressiveness to those runs. I gotta start paying attention to the Caines again.
Walton; Elite stop and go. tough little guy too. He was electric yesterday…
The Cougs beat USC. Hurricanes, devastating forest fires, earth quakes, any Rapture fans in here?
How about those M’s!!! Trying to move from #15 to 13 in the MLB draft…
It’s time to get McEvoy, Elliott and Darboh going tomorrow…
Elliott?
What are your thoughts regarding possibly adding Mason Rudolph in the draft as #2 behind Russ? Does he fit in? Which draft range do you project?
I’m not as high on Rudolph as others. Mid rounder at best I think.
Some say Falk is day 1 some say day 3, all I know is he looked like an NFL quarterback last night. In a time where teams routinely pass on a guy because of minor knocks, and they end up being starters (RW, Dak, Tom Brady, etc.) Maybe teams ought to start giving these guys some slack
Darnold had an off game last night but still love his game. Missing his LT and that USC OL looked like the Seahawks.
I see all these quotes saying he struggled because of all the pressure. No kidding! Every QB including Brady struggles with no time and pressure. You would think Hawks fans would know this better than any fan base.
Give the cougs some credit. USC’s entire roster is bursting with 4 & 5* players while wsu is built with 2 & 3*s. A dinged up Oline is a cop-out. No one mentions wazzu lost their top 2 Linebackers