Ahkello Witherspoon is one of only a handful of CB’s with Seattle’s preferred wingspan
Every cornerback drafted during the Pete Carroll era has had 32 inch arms. They have acquired a cornerback with sub-32 inch arms (Marcus Burley) but he was considered a slot-corner only.
With the Seahawks seemingly prepared to continue playing predominantly in nickel (4-2-5) it looks like addressing the ‘fifth DB’ is a priority (either a big nickel or orthodox slot cornerback) so we’ll see how important arm length is if they address this early in the draft (Adoree’ Jackson and Chidobe Awuzie could easily be on their radar).
However, at the very least they view length as vital at outside cornerback. So are we right to focus on pure arm length or is wingspan the more important feature?
Wingspan is defined as the length between the tip of your middle finger on one outstretched arm to the other.
The average NFL cornerback has a wingspan of 75.5 inches (31.5 inch arm length).
Here’s the arm length and wingspan data for some of Seattle’s draftees, acquisitions and starters since 2010:
Richard Sherman — 32 (arms) 78 (wingspan)
Brandon Browner — 33 (arms) 80 (wingspan)
Byron Maxwell — 33.5 (arms) 77.5 (wingspan)
Jeremy Lane — 32.5 (arms) 78 (wingspan)
Tye Smith — 32 (arms) 78 (wingspan)
DeAndre Elliott — 32 (arms) 77.5 (wingspan)
Neiko Thorpe — 31 3/4 (arms) 78 1/2 (wingspan)
Stanley Jean-Baptiste — 32 3/8 (arms) 78 3/8 (wingspan)
Pierre Desir — 33 (arms) 77.5 (wingspan)
All of these players have at least been tried at outside corner (Lane started as a rookie at outside corner and is currently ‘next man up’ to replace Deshawn Shead).
The Seahawks appear to be less concerned about wingspan at safety. For example, Earl Thomas’ wingspan is only 74.5 inches and Kam Chancellor’s wingspan is 76.5 inches. This is possibly one of the reasons why they might draft a slot corner/big nickel with shorter arms.
Yet if you’re looking at outside corner, the Seahawks have a very consistent ‘type’. They’re adding players with at least 32 inch arms and a wingspan of 77 inches.
Surprisingly, this isn’t a great draft for cornerbacks who fit Seattle’s preference in terms of wingspan. It might be another reason why John Schneider was lukewarm about this class.
Here’s a list of most of the ‘big name’ corner’s in the draft and all of the cornerbacks with 32 inch arms and a +77 inch wingspan. Any names not included here don’t have the necessary arm length or wingspan. The cornerbacks who match each marker are highlighted in bold:
Marshon Lattimore — 31 1/4 (arms) 74 7/8 (wingspan)
Marlon Humphrey — 32 1/4 (arms) 76 1/4 (wingspan)
Tre’Davious White — 32 1/8 (arms) 75 3/4 (wingspan)
Gareon Conley — 33 (arms) 76 (wingspan)
Fabian Moreau — 31 3/8 (arms) 75 3/4 (wingspan)
Kevin King — 32 (arms) 77 7/8 (wingspan)
Jalen Tabor — 32 (arms) 76 5/8 (wingspan)
Cordrea Tankersley — 32 1/4 (arms) 76 1/4 (wingspan)
Adoree’ Jackson — 31 3/8 (arms) 74 (wingspan)
Ahkello Witherspoon — 33 (arms) 79 3/8 (wingspan)
Sidney Jones — 31.5 (arms) 71 7/8 (wingspan)
Rasul Douglas — 32 3/8 (arms) 76 7/8 (wingspan)
Shaq Griffin — 32 3/8 (arms) 74 3/4 (wingspan)
Chidobe Awuzie — 30 5/8 (arms) 74 1/8 (wingspan)
Marquez White — 32 1/8 (arms) 77 3/8 (wingspan)
Treston Decoud — 33 (arms) 77 1/4 (wingspan)
Brian Allen — 34 (arms) 78.5 (wingspan)
Michael Davis — 32 1/4 (arms) 77.5 (wingspan)
Quincy Wilson — 32 1/4 (arms) 75 7/8 (wingspan)
Only six cornerbacks in the entire class have 32 inch arms and a +77 inch wingspan.
There are some very surprising notes here:
— Despite having 33 inch arms, Gareon Conley’s wingspan is a relatively modest 76 inches — comparable to Fabian Moreau despite his much shorter arms (31 3/8 inches)
— Sidney Jones has average arm length by NFL standards (31.5 inches) but his wingspan is incredibly just 71 7/8 inches
— If wingspan is really important, Ahkello Witherspoon (79 3/8 inches) could be a key target (especially considering how well he performed overall at the combine)
— It’s not unfair to suggest they might only be interested in Kevin King and Ahkello Witherspoon early in the draft in terms of outside cornerbacks
— Despite having 32 3/8 inch arms, Shaq Griffin’s wingspan (74 3/4) is comparable to shorter cornerbacks like Adoree’ Jackson
The mediocre length on offer among the cornerbacks is even more striking when you looking at the safety class:
Malik Hooker — 32 1/4 (arms) 77 3/4 (wingspan)
Jamal Adams — 33 3/8 (arms) 75 1/2 (wingspan)
Budda Baker — 30 3/4 (arms) 71 3/4 (wingspan)
Jabrill Peppers — 30 3/4 (arms) 74 (wingspan)
Josh Jones — 32 (arms) 76 1/4 (wingspan)
Marcus Maye — 32 1/2 (arms) 77 1/4 (wingspan)
Obi Melifonwu — 32 1/2 (arms) 79 1/4 (wingspan)
Justin Evans — 32 (arms) 76 5/8 (wingspan)
Delano Hill — 32 1/8 (arms) 77.5 (wingspan)
Jadar Johnson — 32 (arms) 77 3/8 (wingspan)
Eddie Jackson — 32 1/4 (arms) 78 (wingspan)
Rayshawn Jenkins — 32 3/4 (arms) 77 3/8 (wingspan)
Josh Harvey-Clemons — 35 3/8 (arms) 82 5/8 (wingspan)
Damarius Travis — 31 3/4 (arms) 78 1/8 (wingspan)
Montae Nicholson — 33 3/8 (arms) 78 (wingspan)
Chuck Clark — 32 1/4 (arms) 77 1/8 (wingspan)
David Jones — 31 5/8 (arms) 77 3/4 (wingspan)
Shalom Luani — 32 (arms) 74.5 (wingspan)
Leon McQuay — 31 7/8 (arms) 77 1/4 (wingspan)
Cornerbacks with 32 inch arms & a 77 inch wingspan: 6
Safety’s with 32 inch arms & a 77 inch wingspan: 13
There are more than twice as many safety’s than cornerbacks in this draft with Seattle’s preferred length.
I’ve not included every safety in the draft here — but those who aren’t listed above don’t have 32 inch arms or a +77 inch wingspan.
This might be one of the reasons why teams are seriously considering moving Obi Melifonwu to cornerback. Not only does he have the speed and agility to work outside, he also has supreme length.
If the Seahawks are tied to a wingspan number (77 inches) as they appear to be with arm length (32 inches), the options are relatively limited in this draft at outside corner.
If Kevin King is off the board at #26 or they see Melifonwu as a corner, they might focus on the nickel ‘fifth DB’ position unless they’re really high on Ahkello Witherspoon and want to take him with their first pick.
It’s arguably further evidence that a ‘slot’ pick (big nickel or cornerback) could be the choice if they take a defensive back early.
Are there any DBs with shorter than 32″ arms but longer than 77″ wingspans? I don’t see any on your lists, but you did say you didn’t include some people. I’m just wondering because I wonder if they require both measurements, or just happen to get both measurements most of the time while focusing on one measurement. We can see that 32″ arms doesn’t always produce 77″ wingspans, but are almost all 77″ wingspans a result of 32″ arms? In other words, are we really just looking at a wingspan measurement that incidentally brings an arm measurement along?
Also, I wonder what similar analysis would do to other positions where we see arm length as key, like OT. Joe Thomas famously has shorter than expected arms; does he have a long wingspan? I can’t find this, but perhaps someone else can.
To add to this: thanks, Rob, for yet another thought-provoking article.
All of the DB’s with a 77 inch wingspan or greater are listed in the piece. If a DB isn’t listed here, they don’t have a 77 inch wingspan.
Fair enough. That makes it difficult to see if these are separate conditions, or one condition that happens to bring the other along.
When Obi mentioned at the combine that some teams were interested in him at corner, you had to immediately think that Seattle was one of them. And he is the type of “athletic freak” that Rob has speculated it would take for the Seahawks to draft early.
If he doesn’t work as an outside CB, he could still develop into a prototype Big Nickel. Or a future replacement for Kam or Earl:
I keep remembering the video of Pete and John and Kris watching Obi run at the combine. When they showed it live, I thought, “There’s our pick at 26.”
I wonder now if Obi will be there at 26 and I think Kevin King would also be a strong choice but I think Obi is the clear choice if he is there.
I don’t think Obi makes it to 26. He would have to get by Tampa, Detroit, and the Raiders. Tennessee could take him @ 18. I would…
There are so many good safeties and cornerbacks that Seahawks will have some good choices at 26. I don’t get to excited about any one player = just know that there will be some good ones. Obi might be there.
I is interesting to me how much Tankersley and Basham are being undervalued in most circles. Two of the most underrated prospects in this draft along with Bowser.
Bowser is awesome
I actually think Bowser is a little overrated
Daeshon Hall id underrated
I like Hall a lot too, i think he can be a star
I don’t really study film the way that most of the people on here do. The thing about Bowser I notice is that most of time Houston had him playing a rush end from the defensive left side. He was real good at this position, maybe not a world heater, but real good.
At the Senior Bowl they played him at SAM and he looked very comfortable saying in space. I said this a while back, but he also looked a lot more comfortable playing in space as a SAM than Hasson Reddick did, and actually quite a bit better than Biegel did.
I see Bowser playing the very same role for some team that Bruce Irvin did for us, playing a SAM on rushing downs, and playing a LEO on passing downs. I don’t know how valuable that role is to the team in a year like this when we have such needs at other positions. But given Bowser’s ease at playing both positions, and his physical measurable, he stands out as a pretty unique player.
Bowser could end up one of the bigger “surprises” from this draft class. Only one good season’s worth of LB tape on him and he missed 4 games at that.
Rob’s comp to Khalil Mack is on point: Mack had 4 seasons of consistent LB production and that’s why he was a top 10 pick. Bowser compares well athletically to Mack, but lacks the consistent production to warrant the same draft capital investment.
Seems like Jones and Baker have some skinny chests. Those wingspan are very small. Maybe Jones could play more slot in the NFL?
To me it just feels like it’s going good to be Obi or Jackson at 26 assuming they keep it.
In that order too. Obi if he’s available. Jax if not.
Some select insider info from Matt Miller’s notes:
—Tight end Evan Engram continues to help himself. After his workout, one scout texted me “first-rounder.” Engram’s size (6’3″, 234 lbs), athleticism and ability to create yards after the catch make him an intriguing matchup nightmare for offenses.
—Looking for a surprise Round 1 player? Ohio State’s Curtis Samuel has been getting a lot of buzz in scouting circles. One position coach I talked to thinks Samuel doesn’t get outside the first 50 picks.
—It’s player-comparison season, and when texting a scout my comparison for Colorado’s Chidobe Awuzie, he shot back “Tyrann Mathieu.” The same scout added they have a Round 1 grade on the versatile defensive back.
—If you’re looking for a team-to-player connection, I’ve heard from scouts in Cleveland that the team “loves” Corey Davis and would strongly consider him at pick No. 12 if it doesn’t trade out of the spot.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2702148-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-jamal-adams-rising-updated-2-round-mock-draft
Thanks for the insights.
Personally, and this is just me, but the only draft insider worth following is Tony Pauline.
Friends don’t let friends read Bleacher Report
Rob – Shouldn’t leaping ability be factored in somehow? Better leaping ability is better coverage.
For all the cornerbacks drafted by the Seahawks
The average broad Jump is 10.63 feet/ 127 inches ranging between 10.33-11.00
The average verticals jump is 36.5 inches ranging between 33-42inches
The broad jump is significantly above the average. In the 2014 draft that average would have been in the top 10% at the position. The vertical average would be top 30%
I was listening to a Lions game where the announcers were saying that Megatrons catch range was the size of a garage door because of his long arms and leaping ability. I imagine that is useful for defensive backs too. Seems like the best are jumping for the ball with the receiver.
Sports Science lol
Megatron’s arm length was 33 3/8 while Mike Evans of TB has 35 1/8″ arms, longer than all but a handful of offensive linemen. According to Mock Draftable, Evans’ arms are over two standard deviations longer than the average wide receiver’s arms.
I’d rather not use average because it doesn’t tell you anything really unless the results are all similar anyway. I’d rather look for patterns. And the broad and vertical jump results of Seattle’s DB’s is really varied to decipher anything.
For example, Jeremy Lane had a 42 inch vertical. Tharold Simon had a 34 inch vertical. Richard Sherman had a 37 inch vertical. Byron Maxwell had a 33 inch vertical. It basically tells us — a mediocre vertical doesn’t keep a player off Seattle’s board. That’s it.
The broad Jump is really the metric to look out for. Every year from 2011- 2017 (except 2013) a broad jump above 10’4″ has been in the top 10 at the combine for cornerbacks. Seattle has never drafted a CB with a broad jump lower. This may potentially be the minimum they look for.
The number of corners with the required height, arm length and potentially wingspan that reach that threshold is really quite small.
The broad jump only really tests explosive lower body power though. Not sure how it translates to corner. If we’re talking about leaping ability, the vertical would at least highlight that. And there’s no consistency in the results within Seattle’s drafted CB’s.
Rob-a most interesting column-really does help to extract a bit of sênse out of recent remarks from JS indicatng a greater enthusiasm for the 2016 draft over this years class. Thêse comments had me quite puzzled given how weve gushed over this class a fair piece this offseason. Brings me back-as many recent discussions have, to the wish for Obi to make it through to us at 26! Again, what else to say, but nice one man!
Don’t you think recovery speed and leaping ability also play a role. You’d think the wingspan / arm length criteria is arguably more important for later round, athletically challenged prospects.
A lot of things are important.
But the Seahawks have consistently, since 2010, focused on specific length. And that’s why I’ve highlighted this piece.
The broad and vertical jumps of the cornerbacks they’ve taken have varied so much. There’s no consistency there.
I was checking the roster depth in the secondary. Seattle has only 3 safetys on their roster. They have 7 cornerbacks on their roster. You would think safety would be more of a priority than cornerbacks. BTW : Does anyone remember the name of Kam Chancellor’s cousin?
Keenan Lambert. Not sure what team he’s on or if he’s even still in the league.
Thanks Shadow.
It’s actually his brother (different fathers). Normally, you’d say half-brothers, but Kam said not to call them half-brothers, and I would prefer not to anger Kam.
Generally a good life decision there…
The real question is: who is practice squad and who can play as a starter? Most of those cornerbacks will never make the field unless the secondary is decimated by injuries. Seahawks need some starters in the secondary and on offense. This draft seems strong to me – as long as you want safeties, cornerbacks, or linebackers.
CB: Elliott, Lane, Shead, Sherman (assuming not traded), and Thorpe are should be on the 53 man roster.
S: Chancellor, Thomas and McDougald should be on it as well.
Fighting for roster spots (and having little to no guaranteed money):
S: Desir
CB: Cox, McCray
Thorpe is primarily a special teamer though, so I would say as of now, we have 4 CBs and 3 S on our roster. Last year we had 11 DBs to start the year. Maybe one of the three fighting for spots makes the final roster. That leaves likely 3 more rookies to add to our roster, with a bare minimum of one CB AND one S in the early part of the draft.
Rob, you’re just the man. Thats all i gotta say. You not only managed to have built the best sports analysis website around, you managed to make such an amazing culture on this site. Thank you.
Rob: Leaves no stone unturned. Good stuff.
Thanks guys
If Rob was a professor of mine I might of got a PHD, lol.
It’s almost like there should be one more stat available – ‘Reach’.
‘Reach’ would be the height a candidate can touch standing (in my mind I don’t yet know whether it should be either flat footed or on tip toes – but standardized to one or the other). While someone’s normal height would be a relatively good indicator here ‘Reach’ would better take in account the differences in anatomy. For example, each person’s arms and shoulders are attached to the body in a slightly different orientation and height. So a player with 32 inch arms but mounted 2″ lower in his anatomy would to some degree lower his ‘Reach’. Some people have a head that accounts for more of their height than others. Some have necks like Merton Hanks.
Body height is important. Arm length is a good stat. Wingspan is a good stat for some things.
Employing the Reach stat, body height, arm length, wingspan and then adding vertical leaping would be a better overall determination of the ‘Area of Operation’ of the player. Of course, there’s the reach with one arm height and the normal two arm height. Those might have to be two different applicable stats.
But all these things could become standardized and congealed into a single number (similar to say, TEF) that would give everyone an easily digestible visualization of the concept.
.
Reminds me of the old sports science measurement of how far a player Could explode and cover from a standstill
Calvin Johnson could cover like the length of like a whale or something ridiculous 100 cubic feet
Groundbreaking stuff, Rob.
Someone mentioned Schneider specifically saying wingspan recently and I knew you would find something there.
Sidenote; why oh why must Josh Harvey-Clemons have such trash film???
JS has unbelievable foresight. Trading this years 4th round pick for Quentin Jefferson is brilliant considering the drop off we expect after round 3. Also tough to find pass rushing DTs.
let’s hold off the assessment on Jefferson until he actually plays
Jordan Hill looked good when he got 5 sacks the one year and did nothing after that
prospects are just prospects until they do something
now, I am hopeful he is what they hope he is, but the move is only great if he plays well
Agreed. However you can measure his potential vs the potential of a 4th round pick this year… I’ll take Jefferson every time.
if we are talking potential vs potential, probably right
but the draft is always a bit of a crap shoot, can’t really tell how good a draft was until 2 or 3 years down the road
What I find interesting is that I never heard of Jefferson before we drafted him. I was surprised that we traded up for a guy I’d never heard of! I hope he works out.
If we trade back from the first round (assuming Obi, Jackson, and King are gone) I think these players make sense for us with our first pick:
Marcus Maye
Tre Davious White
Akhello Witherspoon
Tarrell Basham
I agree w D-OZ…Basham should be on our radar late first/early second round. He has really great tape, great story, great personality and he fits a pass rushing need.
I was kinda interested in Basham as a possible 2nd round pick
Yeah, agreed.
Is Shaq Griffin not a big name? Is he going to be available in R3?
Missed him out but his arm length is 32 3/8 and his wingspan only 74 3/4.
I don’t see a problem with the class if the average wingspan is 75.5, Sidney Jones is the only outside corner who doesn’t meet that Mark.
Even the slot guys are within an inch of that.
It’s not about the average wingspan though — it’s about what Seattle has looked for.
Trade Sherm to the saints for the 32 pick and 76th pick. Move up if you have to using a 3rd round pick to draft Obi/king at 26 then draft Watt/bowser at 32(again move up if you have to using a compensatory pick for trade). I would love to see them strengthen the middle of the defense with Obi and Watt. Go young on the outside’s let Carroll use the 2nd and 3rd round picks on CB’s. Use the 6 and 7th for for some high upside prospects.
Trade the 26th and 90th to move up to 20 and trade with Denver to get Obi
Denver still gets a linemen at #26
Trade the 32nd pick and the 102nd pick to get the 27th pick from KC for watt/bowser
KC gets a QB or wide out at #32
Use the 58th, 76th and 106th picks on a couple corners and a wide out
Maybe the 6th and 7th round picks on oline prospects?
We have talked a bunch about first round talent at corner for the Hawks how about rounds 2 and 3?
Intriguing but doubtful
Rob, thanks for pointing this out. Might help shorten the list for outside cornerback. I know Zach Whitman pointed out 77.5 as a Seahawks minimum back in 2015:
https://twitter.com/zjwhitman/status/569941085192990720
Here’s info for other CB’s they’ve acquired if it helps to add to the data:
Neiko Thorpe 31 3/4 arm, 78 1/2 wingspan
Stanley Jean Baptiste 32 3/8-inch arm, 78 3/8-inch wingspan
Pierre Desir 33 arm, 77.5 wingspan
Still looking for:
Tharold Simon 32 3/4 arm, (I know it’s gonna be long, just need the number)
DeShawn Shead (even though he was a safety, would be interesting to see)
Cary Williams (did they publish this info back in 2008…?)
Great info! Thanks for the research
Thanks I’ll add Thorpe, SJB and Desir to the piece
This article further hi-lights the fact that Kevin King and Obi really are the perfect prototypes for what the Hawks coaching staff want in a DB. I am sure most coaching staffs.
If either guy is there at 26 I am almost certain they will be the pick.
If both are gone by 26 which is quote likely then I think the best option would be Adoree Jackson in Rd #1 as a slot corner and Witherspoon in Rd #2 to play outside. Witherspoons coverage skills are elite and his physical traits are off the charts. I am sure he can be taught to come up and play the run better.
Has anyone studied the Josh Harvey-Clemons’ tape? Know the backstory a bit – former 5 star recruit, but issues with pot. NFL draft profile gives his comp as Kam (assume that’s just a default based on him being a strong safety with size?)
Awful awful tape…
Like i literally just watched his tape again and he was burnt for a td and gave up a deep flag in three drives
I thought JHC’s tape, at least the tape I saw, was appalling.
He looks out of position as a deep Safety.
I’m beginning to wonder if Seattle’s 2nd round pick would be ‘Bama’s Tim Williams. That 10 yard split is ridiculous. No one at the combine even sniffed it. Back story is pretty ‘Seahawky’ as well.
Could see this guy filling that Bruce Irvin role quite well actually.
What about his lack of bend around the edge?
via Pauline,
“…Plays with balance, is rarely off his feet and bends off the edge with great momentum…”
Wasn’t TW getting buzz as a top 15 pick last year but decided to return to school? 12 sacks in 27 tackles.
CBS “COMPARES TO: Bruce Irvin…”
He’d be interesting. I know you know those Bama’ boyz
The split I’ve got for Tim Williams is 1.64. What have you got?
Zach Whitman’s site has him at 1.54
Dunno where he got that number from.
I think it might be an error.
Great call. I love Williams. He’s a pin the ears back sort of edge player…and that’s the role he’d fill.
Great article Rob!
What would be a better “get” for the Hawks:
R! – A. Jackson at slot corner and then R2 – Witherspoon at corner on the outside
or
R1 – King corner on the outside and then a slot corner in R2 or later?
I wasn’t real high on Lane’s play last year, so I’m thinking our first corner drafted is going to beat out Lane and be our starter opposite Sherman. Is that the way you guys are thinking?
I prefer scenario 1 because I can see A.Jackson doing better in the slot than Lane did last year (and providing with an explosive returner on special teams like Lockette was 2 years ago) and then Witherspoon starting on the outside and doing a solid job with his length.
Look forward to hearing your thoughts…
Go Hawks!!
I would go with option 1 as well. It just feels like the outside corner takes a year to develop where the slot corner can start day 1. Let Witherspoon devolopen year 1 then let him replace Lane in 2018. Plus this gives us Jackson as a returner as well. At least that’s my opinion.
I think it depends on the slot you can get in round two. The options might be limited there.
I might be more tempted to go slot/big nickel in R1 and then see what’s left in R2. Is there a Tankersley or Tabor there for example?
Rob, your ability to unearth new perspectives is what makes you special.
Outside CB (King), nickel CB (vast difference of Baker vs. Obi vs. Jackson), pass rusher (Watt/Bowser), or offensive lineman (Lamp). I really have no clue where they’ll go with that pick at #26. Obviously, it depends on who is there but I can see scenarios where we go with any of those guys above at #26. That’s a lot of different players/options.
Definately a lot of good options. I know after the Texans pick I’ll be on the edge of my seat waiting on a name and then BAM, a trade back and you have to wait another day.
Greg. I know the feeling.
I still remember
“and the Seattle Seahawks select: Chris Spencer, Center,…”
“Lawrence Jackson, defensive end…”
ugh
I think this year it’s really going to be someone I like!
“Obi Melifonwu, Safety,… ”
“Kevin King, defensive back,…”
Rob,
Check this site at least 4 times daily to see if new content is out.
I know this is seen as a defensive draft and a chance to really reload on that side of the ball but JS can be sneaky and I was wondering if you could do an article on the wr/te Options day 2/3, who you like and why. I love me some Jermaine Kearse but could see them going in a different direction especially if they look to extend Kam or Jimmy.
Hi,
I’ve touched on WR’s and TE’s a little bit before in terms of day two. Day three is a little tougher because they only pick in rounds 6-7. Here are some of the names I think we should keep an eye on:
Quincy Adeboyejo
Jehu Chesson
Robert Davis
Malachi Dupre
Krishawn Hogan
Chris Godwin
Zay Jones
Josh Reynolds
Jonnu Smith
Adam Shaheen
George Kittle
Gerald Everett
Would you be willing to add Josh Malone to that list Rob?
Rob what about day 3/UDFA?
Chad Williams wr grambling
DeAngelo Yancey wr Perdue
Mack Hollins wr UNC
Hogan and Davis make me excited as late picks. Godwin if we go earlier, but I get the sense he’d have to be our 2nd round pick to land him. Carlos Henderson might make it to one of our 3rds. He is the best YAC receiver. And can play slot or outside.
I like Kittle and J. Smith at TE along with Shaheen. Everett has Ken doll hands 😉
The most exciting later round WR to me is Malachi Dupre. His athleticism and hands are unbelievable, his productivity is an indictment on LSU QBs and coaching not his ability.
I just stumbled across a website called Mockdraftabele.com (link: https://www.mockdraftable.com/). It allows you to compare combine performance and measurements with the mean and also gives you comparable players. Look up Kevin King and Obi Melifonwu and there are a couple of items that jump out. King blows away the competition except for strength while Melifonwu has smaller hands. These are issues I wouldn’t have noticed without the unique graphic presentation. Kudos to Marcus Armstrong who developing this product as open source on GitHub.
Great site. That one and https://3sigmaathlete.com are excellent resources for identifying athleticism.
Here is what is good about this piece. You can cross off many guys who do not fit the “mold” of what Seattle looks for… this makes mock drafting simpler.
S/CB
Obi Melifonwu — 32 1/2 (arms) 79 1/4 (wingspan) / ~125 SPARQ (1st Round)
Rayshawn Jenkins — 32 3/4 (arms) 77 3/8 (wingspan) ~ 110 SPARQ (3rd Round)
(Note: Some reason the SPARQ was never completed for the S excel sheet in the 2017 draft)
CB
Ahkello Witherspoon — 33 (arms) 79 3/8 (wingspan) / 132.2 SPARQ (2nd round?)
Kevin King — 32 (arms) 77 7/8 (wingspan) / 142.8 SPARQ (1st Round)
How ever it falls, you come out of the draft with 1 guy at CB and 1 guy at S, you will be just fine.
I would try for the Obi / Witherspoon 1st and 2nd round picks….. that would be a win in this draft.
Oh and Brian Allen — 34 (arms) 78.5 (wingspan) might be a guy to keep tabs on when you get to the later rounds…. this screams PC needs to coach you up!
“Allen is nowhere near ready to play NFL football. He lacks smooth feet and hips in coverage, a feel for routes and is below average playing the deep ball. His issues as a tackler make it unlikely a team would trust him to move to safety. However, his elite size, speed and length are sure to garner attention and he does flash some potential as a bump-and-run corner. Allen could be a late-round pick who is stashed on a practice squad while a team tries to improve his technique.” ~ nfl.com
Has the potential for being a great find. We need to continually upgrade our practice squad to a point where they have enough Upside to actually make it into a game and perform effectively.
I’m completely sold. Obi or King, and then Witherspoon would make the draft for me. Good tip on Jenkins. I have to look more in to him.
Those are our true requirements and constraints, it seems as if we may be seriously handcuffed regarding our choices. I hope we have The ability to choose some guys that don’t absolutely hate those requirements.
Why? I don’t think your handcuffing yourself by developing a requirement. Trying to ask someone not equipped to do more than they are capable is a worse idea. In 2016, the Seahawks outside CBs were excellent so I don’t see how their requirement has been an issue. In 2015, Tharold Simon failed to step up and Cary Williams was a disaster. Luckily, they had DeShawn Shead waiting in the wings and the defense leveled out after he was inserted as a starter. Does it eliminate players that we, the fans, might like – sure it does, but who cares. We are fans, we are irrelevant.
Rob just curious here, we have talked about seahawks pulling the trigger on Adoree and Chidobie at #26 despite them not havng 32″ arms and now you have brpught up the wingspan theory into play, heres my question. Lets say they wanna wait and address slot corner at #90 and Iowa’s Desmond King is there, He does not have the 32″ arms but if they are theoretically willing to make an exception when it comes to nickel corner position ( I understand you don’t know if they would make an exception just a possibility) would you not be comfortable with them selecting Desmond King at #90? I know he doesnt have the unique abilities that Adoree does but him and Chidobie both have similar size and we are talking about adressing the position a whole 2 rounds later.
I’m just not sure he’s special enough for Seattle (King). The thing about Adoree’ and Chidobe is they have special qualities. And if it gets to round three and they haven’t drafted a slot/big nickel type (would be a little surprising IMO) then I think they might look at Shalom Luani for that role.
I appreciate your input Rob, idk what it is but I really like Desmond King but I wouldnt want us to take him in R1 of R2 bc I think its too early for him. Some team will end up grabbing him
I really love Desmond King, but I like him as a FS (possibly slot CB – but I think Adoree is significantly better equipped for the role). Since I think his best position is backing up Earl Thomas, I wouldn’t draft him early, but if he falls into the R3 comp pick range I’d bite there.
Five areas of need with the first five picks on this draft. No particular order.
1) Cornerback
2) Safety
3) Edge Rusher/Linebacker
4) Offensive Tackle
5) Either Wide Receiver/Tight-End
Hypothetical : Let’s say that Melifonwu, King Jackson are off the board. The Hawks could trade down or they could take TJ. Watt/ Bowser. BTW
I would rank RB over WR/TE per sai…. but I also think they could find a RB in the 6th as likely as the 3rd.
One PCs last public statements had him actually exclude OL from his list of targets in the draft. Makes you think that unless a great option actually falls, that may no longer be a priority for our draft and OL may be just a optional development draft pick in later rounds. Unless we get an early draft pick for OL, they probably don’t have any chance starting anyway, and my concern with an early OL pic is that it messes up our ability to load up on defense of guys in this defensive Rich draft. Thinking through this, I actually hope they do not pick up and OL pick until later rounds if at all. We were just a couple healthy players away from getting a taste of the Super Bowl last year, and it seems our OL has already had a pretty healthy upgrade in both FA acquisitions and another year of development of rookies And less experienced guys.
That would be dissapointing. I like Watt and Bowser, but that feels like a strikeout by way of a luxury pick.
Edge rusher needs to be #2, and DT needs to be at least higher then WR/TE if not OT
Someone is going to have to explain the importance of wing span to me. I can understand the importance of arm length – longer armed players are going to interfere with more footballs, all other things being equal – but wing span?
Let’s say two players both have 32″ arms but one guy has a 76″ wingspan vs 78# for the other guy. What does this tell us besides the fact that the second player has broader shoulders?
I’m trying to see the practical benefits but I just can’t.
Cameron: I would agree that arm length is more important than wing span. At least to me. But you can’t agree with the facts. If you look at the cornerbacks that John Schneider has picked in the draft they all are 77 inches or longer.
Ultimately its about identifying who has the best ‘reach’. DBs with good reach can be more out of position and still defend passes. Greater margin for error and better at matching up with big, lengthy pass-catchers. Combine vertical, wingspan/length/reach and those high-pointed balls in the red zone or otherwise are better defended, or at least there are better tools with witch to defend passes – and make tackles.
Imagine the CB as a goalie in soccer trying to prevent the ball from getting past him to the target behind him.
The area his body covers without motion is actually the size of the snow angel he can create. The wider the wingspan the bigger that space is.
It is all about reaching around the WR. It is not often that the “goalie” reach is relevant. It is most often that the defender is trailing and needs to reach around and tip the ball out of the offensive players hands. This is all about arm length-not wing span.
Not really. Wingspan also defigns the distance from your center of gravity to the tips of your fingers.
In other words, your basic reachin any direction is half of your wingspan.
Wingspan is just a more accurate determiner of length. It’s a radius. You only need to look at Shaq Griffin for evidence. He has 32 inch arms but a short wingspan.
This is such a top heavy draft, but the 25-50th players taken are going to be really talented.
Kenny: 10-4
I am seeing a lot of Richard Sherman in Kevin King. If the Hawks end up with King I have no problem with that pick.
BTW: Unless someone blows me over with a trade offer I have no desired to trade Richard Sherman.
110% agree on both counts.
I agree 100%, I see no benefit in trading Sherman at this point. Especially when you think how a month ago we were all dueling over this CB class and now we are looking at the measurable and wondering who Seattle would even take. With JS saying he does not like this draft class, there is no reason to chance it. Unless Sherman is completely undermining Carol in the locker room, then he needs to stay.
Sherman can hardly get worse than he has been. We got one playoff win with him, and should likely be able to do it again. Peak performance of the team may require his “buy in”, but maybe that can be generated during the 2017 season. Maybe a ball control offense convinces RS that things are better, and he begins to make the best of things rather than making the worst. Maybe he has a beer Jim Moore and all is forgiven.
What about a trade that sends Sherman to New Orleans for Sheldon Rankin and #42?
They aren’t giving up their best young defensive player.
I agree with misfit but that trade sounds good
Love the trade but will never happen Rankins was a top 15 pick and showed huge upside. Maybe Rankins for Sherm straight up.
I prefer pick #32 + David Onyemata which is a deal I could see get done.
Love the trade but will never happen Rankins was a top 15 pick and showed huge upside. Maybe Rankins for Sherm straight up.
I prefer pick #32 + David Onyemata which is a deal I could see get done.
Fantastic article.
Kevin and Obi have to be our top 2 DB on the first round big board. 79+ wingspan! Holy hell. Browser was a poor man’s Melifonwu…
*Browner
I still believe that Jackson will be the pick. Day 1 starter and dual threat with his return skills.
Any combination of king, Obi , Jackson in the first two rounds would have me doing backflips and taking an emergency trip to the chiropractor!!
+1
I am with you Greg because I think Bolles, Obi and King are all gone by 26.
Jackson could be a difference maker year #1!
I also what to say a thanks to EVERYONE on this forum . Everyone has been pretty cool. No name calling or insulting anyone. Which is another reason why I like this forum. Everyone has been very nice. Thanks again and your contributions are both appreciated and very much fun to read.
Thanks again. And keep posting.
Oh shut up. 😉
+1
at this point in the process..I’m assuming everything I hear from the Seahwaks FO is a fib.
e.g. we hate this DB class!!
I think we are getting closer to that Head fake time of yearbefore the actual draft.
Off-topic, RWIII, do you have a in NTRP ranking?
I don’t.
Hawk Talk: Do you play?
YES A ton. 4.5 NTRP currently ranked #1 in the SW Section in singles & doubles. I’m overly competitive.
Also huge Fed fan.
Name someone who is not a Fed fan.
I wish couldn’t but I have friends that don’t like him and prefer Rafa
How can you not like Federer? Not only is Federer one of the greatest tennis players of alltime. But he is actually a very good person. Does charity’s work. Has 4 daughters. Federer is a good family man. But to each his own.
I bet tennis and follow it closely. Check the tennis forums. There are plenty of Nadal fans who don’t like Federer. They are irritated at the greatest of all time label so easily attached when it bumps up against the head to head record.
I prefer Federer but he has been very fortunate that Nadal has been injury prone. Otherwise the major tally would be very, very tight. Nadal always makes Federer hit that extra shot or two, after Federer makes what would have been a winner against any other player. Consequently Federer starts to get frustrated, takes chances he wouldn’t need to take against anyone else, and Nadal wears him down. I’ve done very well backing Nadal against Federer in major finals, although I lost the recent Australian Open.
Anyway, I agree with others that this wingspan focus is yet another excellent submission by Rob. I’ve learned more in the past few years than the prior decades combined. And I’m convinced there is much more out there. For example., that draftcobern site that was linked here yesterday has some great content on age and how it is severely underrated as a scouting variable. No kidding. That’s always been my belief. I don’t want late bloomers in early rounds and especially with a premium pick. Those guys should be the best horse in the barn from their first steps, the whispered freaks. There are links on draftcobern to articles indicating that age is particularly vital with edge rushers. The top NFL performers at edge were dominant at an early age in college.
4.5. That’s a pretty fair rating.
4.5! Nice. I’ve been trying to get to 4.0 for over a year now!
Was a 5.0 for a couple of years.
Best online instruction site I have ever seen or. used:
This helped
http://www.onlinetennisinstruction.com
I’ll check that out. Thanks! When you refer to SW section…is that SW Washington or SW USA? I’m always looking for new tennis vacation destinations.
Sick draft 3.0 with bad Big Board:
Round 1 Pick 26: Adoree’ Jackson, CB, Southern California (B)
Round 2 Pick 26: Kevin King, CB, Washington (B+)
Round 3 Pick 30 (PITT): Sidney Jones, CB, Washington (B)
Round 3 Pick 38 (COMP): Isaac Asiata, OG, Utah (B)
Round 4 Pick 6 (LAC): Vince Biegel, OLB, Wisconsin (B)
Round 4 Pick 28 (PITT): Daeshon Hall, DE, Texas A&M (B-)
Round 5 Pick 20 (TENN): George Kittle, TE, Iowa (B-)
Round 6 Pick 26: KD Cannon, WR, Baylor (A-)
Round 6 Pick 28 (G.B.): Tedric Thompson, SS, Colorado (B-)
Round 6 Pick 30 (TENN): Joe Mathis, DE, Washington (B)
Round 7 Pick 8: Sefo Liufau, QB, Colorado (C)
Round 7 Pick 9 (CINN): Taquan Mizzell, RB, Virginia (C+)
Round 7 Pick 22 (JAX): Shalom Luani, SS, Washington State (C-)
Round 7 Pick 33 (CINN): Treston Decoud, CB, Oregon State (C+)
And yes, lots of trade downs.
Would anyone be unhappy with that group?
Hawk Talk that is more of a wish list. First of all I don’t see Kevin King getting out of the first round. He might not even make it to 26.
Ha. You don’t need to remind me. See my opening comments? The picks obviously came from a big board even worse than DJs last one. Very very far from reality. But with all the negativity around the sherm situation and all the SDB favs becoming out of reach, I needed to make some of my own good (albeit fictional) mock draft. After the first 2 picks I could see how bad/fictional the mock draft site and big board was.
But relatively, perhaps not any more unrealistic that many expecting a high first and a great player in trade for Sherm.
Hawk Talk. How about a day or two before the draft each of us post a (realistic) mock draft. Just for fun.
Great idea. Im game. A lot more fun than guessing the top 32
Likely I won’t use the one I posted above. 🙂
Don’t worry. I won’t hold you to it.
No doubt . . . King there late 2rd is absolute fiction, without even discussing the rest.
Would anyone here trade Sherman for Tennessee’s pick 18, then trade a third to move up and select both obi and king? I would.
How to you help young corners? Pass rush.
Draft tim Williams and daeshon hall in the second third respectively. The with your other third draft a receiving weapon.
How about Sherman and Rawls for 18 and Derrick Henry?
How about we don’t trade him and let him help us win the SB?
+1
Am I crazy for liking Rawls more than Henry?
Not at all. I don’t believe in TR’s body being able to hold up to his running style. Tennessee already has DeMarco Murray so Rawls could be a nice compliment. Henry is 6′ 3″ 250# “bell cow” running back that we haven’t had since Marshawn left.
Have similar concerns, even though I do really like him.
I would certainly consider Sherm for #18, but I really doubt the Titans make that trade. I think Tennessee would be better of using that pick.
Man I hope Sherman stays.. One of the best Seahawks ever. But a top 45 pick and one of our thirds could get us into range for a combination of King/Obi/Adoree.. Add in a “very good” player and that sounds like a pretty good deal for a guy who’s gonna make almost as much money as our quarterback in 2 years.
Think about who we could get, a proven veteran, or a young guy with huge potential. People should reply with who they’d want in return from around the league. What if we made out with Geno Atkins! Then King, Obi, Tankersley.. We’d be stacked still.
Safety is much more vital to our scheme than corner, we can’t keep Sherm, Kam and Earl, so corner would be the spot to get younger. Let’s grab 3 with our first 3 picks and add a really good veteran
1.King
1.Obi
2.Tankersley
3.Nico Siragusa
3.Vince Biegel
6. George Kittle/Jehu Chesson
7. Zane Gonzalez
+Geno Atkins
-Richard Sherman
I’m a big fan of Atkins and I almost mentioned him above when I brought up Gerald McCoy. So few disruptive 4-3 3-techs. Atkins has a significant injury history and is aging himself. Not as confident about that trade. The Bengals have a nice 1st, though. 😉
That draft would be absolutely sick
I don’t see Cincinnati coughing up their 1st round pick for an aging cornerback.
? They give us their 2nd
How about…
Titans #18 pick for Sherman and next years #1 and this years #26 pick from Seattle ?
Trying to get the draft pick trade value right is tough.
If Reddick falls to Philly (I know that’s a big if) package Sherm and #26 for Philly’s #14 and #43. Essentially trading Sherman for a 2nd rounder and a bump up in the first round. Maybe Indy does that deal as well.
Using the NFL trade value chart I’m guesstimating Sherman’s real value to be in the 750-850 range, roughly a first round pick in the 20-24 range. Sherman is 29 and was acting out for much of the past season. I really don’t think he has as much trade value as we would like to think.
John Schneider wants a high draft pick and a top veteran for Sherman. I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
Also Richard Sherman has 30 interceptions since he came into the league. That is 10 picks higher than the next player.
BTW :
Hawk Talk. Are you a right handed or left handed tennis player?
My dream would be trading Sherm to Miami for Lippett and their 1. Even if we have to give up a 3 I would do it.
Lippett is a young up and coming CB who could be lights out if Pete gets his hands on him.
Having 22 and 26 could give the team lots of options.
Obi + King?
Davis + King?
Lamp + Obi?
Njoku + Adoree?
Righty with a classic decent topspin one handed backhand.
Just confirming that Tim Williams split is 1.64 and NOT 1.54, as per 3sigmaathlete.com. You can watch the combine video of his 40yd here:
http://www.nfl.com/combine/tracker#day=sunday
I was just looking at his highlights yesterday as well and wondered the same thing.
It must be a mistake on 3sigma. The info I had stated a 1.64 split.
Thanks for the heads up.
They must like him though if they worked him out.
What would you guys think of this draft?
26: R1P26
S OBI MELIFONWU
CONNECTICUT
58: R2P26
DL CHRIS WORMLEY
MICHIGAN
90: R3P26
CB RASUL DOUGLAS
WEST VIRGINIA
102: R3P38
EDGE DAESHON HALL
TEXAS A&M
106: R3P42
CB SIDNEY JONES
WASHINGTON
Find Kams replacement, get a hopeful eventual starter from Douglas, fill our need at DT with a 3 down player, get more pass rush depth with hall, and to top it all off a top 15 pick at the cost of a third rounder. I like the idea of drafting Jones late, the Seahawks might be the best spot for him to recover as i doubt they rush him back. Lets just say we pick up Luani in the 6th and Brian Allen in the 7th.
I would be willing to see the Hawks start Douglas day 1, they have the talent surrounding him to be able to compensate if he makes mistakes. Plus from the number of targets he will get, you ought to figure he makes a few plays on the ball and forces a.few turnovers. I was going to take Witherspoon in the second as i believe him to be a highly pro ready prospect, but he was gone, so i went with Wormely to give Jarran Reed some competition and make defensive tackle more competative.
Hey, Del, thanks for the mock, but did you read the piece by Rob? The Hawks have never drafted nor acquired an outside CB with under 77.5 wingspan. Not sure why they would make an exception for Rasul Douglas, since he is not a plus athlete. And Sidney Jones, while a great corner, is totally not Seattle style. One of the smallest (if not THE smallest) wingspans of the entire class.
Sidney jones would be at the price of third rounder, its the draft fanspeak gave me, trust me i would be trying to adhere to those standards but those were the best options available. I think what Rob meant by wingspam problem is that there are only 6 corners available with that wingspan and only a few might be available to the Hawks. It might not be Seattle’s first choice, but those might be the options they are left with. What was i supposed to do? Draft Brian Allen in the third because he was the only player that met the physical profile? Brian Allens tape is horrific and quite frankly so were more of the other options left.
The Hawks are going to have to make tough choices this year because they are either going to need to hugely reach on players who are not good, in order to meet there physical stanard, or they are going to need to step outside their profile and make some choices based on need. I think that is why JS doesn’t like this draft class as much. For all the talent, not many of the people who have what they want are going to be available.
Ok, I see what you mean. That’s a fair interpretation on JS’ comments.
I would tend to think, though, that if no CBs they like are still available, they go with someone they do like at another position and trust the guys on their own roster to step up.
I’m not sure Schneider actually thinks that though, our CB depth has been in decline and with Shead out and Lanes injury history the Hawks are on hit away from having Richard Sherman and nobody. I like to be hopeful about rookies development but the Hawks need to be realistic. Restocking the secondary and finding eventual successors to the LoB is a must in these next few drafts. That’s all opinion and speculation though. I just got the read that they were pumping up camp bodies when they were talking about corner depth.
Like the draft a lot!
I’m a big fan of Wormely and Hall. I was hoping for Witherspoon at 56 but Wormely just looks so good on tape. He comes off the edge and lines up at defensive tackle. And at nearly 300 pounds he ran in the 4.8 range. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s our Calias Campbell just like Paul was supposed to be our Djax. I like Wormely’s odds to be great though.
Perfection, with little late Luani as the cherry on top?
Love Luani’s game
I don’t know if anyone was heard but Breno Giacomini was up in Seattle and the rumor is that he had a workout with the hawks.
Very interesting.
Seahawks Post-Combine Mock 6.0
*Obi goes to WAS at 17 and King to TEN at 18. Unfortunate, but quite possible.
*Trade up with R3P90
From SEA: R1P26, R3P90 = 840pts. (700+140)
From DEN: R1P20 = 850 pts.
R1P20- OT Garrett Bolles
Seattle aggressively upgrades its achilles heel. They tried to get it done in FA with Lang, but it wasn’t to be. Without the ability to establish the run game and control the clock, they lose their identity, expose their defense by tiring them out, and the whole cannon shatters. He and Lacy, paired up with a healthy Rawls, would go a long way in bringing back the bully on offense.
R2P58- CB Fabian Moreau
Grab an outstanding athlete and high-upside prospect to upgrade Lane in the slot and trust that either Lane or one of the other guys in Pete’s DB factory will step up at RCB, with Shead in the mix as well if/when he makes it back.
Moreau has speed and fluid movement ability similar to Adoree, but is exactly 2in. taller and 20lbs. heavier (6000, 206) for more bulk vs. the run and for covering bigger targets. Arm length is the same as Adoree’s (31 3/8) but his wingspan is over 2in. longer (74in. vs 76 1/4in.), which should be plenty for the slot. His inexperience and pec injury (out 4-6 months) at pro day, in a deep CB class, push him down further than he would have gone.
Despite converting from RB in high school, he’s a natural at CB. Shows a patience at the line of release that will fit perfectly the technique Seattle teaches. Team captain, likeable personality, his coach said he could basically run the DB meeting. And a gritty guy: broke his foot late in the 1st quarter of the third game of 2015 season, and when UCLA needed a stop to hold on to the lead late in the 4th, he came back on and finished the game on a broken foot with two torn ligaments to help get his team the win. Read about it here:
http://wowway.net/front_controller.php/news/read/category/Sports/article/los_angeles_times-for_uclas_moreau_it_was_all_part_of_the_throb-tca
For those who think the Hawks might have been targeting Bradley Roby and not Dominique Easley back in 2014 when they were famously “bummed out” in the war room feed, you will like this:
B. Roby: 5112, 194, 31 1/2″ arm, 10.25″ hand, 4.39 40yd, 4.04 SS, 38 vert, 10’4” broad, 130.0 pSPARQ
Moreau: 6000, 206, 31 3/8″ arm, 9.000″ hand, 4.35 40yd, 4.12 SS, 38 vert, 11’4” broad, 140.2 pSPARQ
*Trade down R3 comp for R4+R5 picks (necessary because we lost a pick trading up earlier)
From SEA: R3P102
From CIN: R4P138, R5P153
R3P106- DE/DT Daeshon Hall
With few pure EDGE options running the desired 1.5s split, we take local boy Hall. He offers the versatility they love as an inside/outside guy, a non-stop motor, and outstanding length (35 5/8 arms). His athleticism isn’t really that far off top-5 pick Solomon Thomas.
R4P138- TE George Kittle
Replaces Brandon Williams as a blocking TE and has upside as a receiving option as well. Luke Willson is back on just a 1yr deal and could get more offers next year.
R5P153- CB/KR/RB Brandon Wilson
Hedge for Lockett in the return game coming off his injury and depth behind Moreau as well in the slot. Like Adoree, he knows what to do when he gets the ball in his hands, and, like Adoree, he has the tools to do it:
Adoree J.: 5110, 186, 4.42 40yd, N//A SS, N/A 3C, 36 VJ, 10’2″ BJ, N/A BP
B. Wilson: 5106, 198, 4.38 40yd, 4.41 SS, 7.07 3C, 41 VJ, 11’1″ BJ, 24 BP
R6P210- LB Jimmie Gilbert
KJ Wright clone who has already bulked up 15lbs. since the end of the season and should continue to bulk out his long frame. He sneakily had 10.5 sacks last season as well from the OLB spot.
KJ Wright: 6033, 246, 35 0/8 arm, 4.71 40yd, 1.66 10yd, 4.35 SS, 7.21 3C, 34 VJ, 10’0″ BJ, 20 BP
Ji. Gilbert: 6042, 234, 34 1/8 arm, 4.64 40yd, ????? 10yd, 4.57 SS, N//A 3C, 37 VJ, 10’0″ BJ, 12 BP
*Gilbert tweaked his hamstring in the short shuttle drill, likely affecting his time.
R7P226- DT Glen Antoine
One of the most powerful guys in the draft (3.2 TEF, 107.99 wTEF) and one of the few true nose tackles. Could fill Mebane’s role, giving us bulk in the middle on base downs and being subbed for Quinton Jefferson on passing downs:
Mebane: 6011, 309, 33 arm, 5.19 40yd, 4.65 SS, 7.94 3C, 24 vert, 8’10” broad, 24 bench
Antoine: 6005, 337, ??? arm, N/A* 40yd, 4.77 SS, 8.33 3C, 30 vert, 8’07” broad, 37 bench
*didn’t run 40 due to a heel injury.
I don’t really like Gilbert, he’s a bit of a one trick pony rushing at 220
Now he bulks up and hurts himself running.
I don’t know what he does at the next level, because he doesn’t cover like KJ
Honestly, I don’t really care about the rushing. Threw it in as a bonus. Just want him to have good range sideline to sideline and tackle.
And they certainly will have to look at durabiliity. Maybe putting on the weight that fast wasn’t ideal.
I like the back end of that better than the front end. I like Bolles, but I feel like people are confusing nastiness with the ability to be a powerful run blocker. From tape I’ve seen, Bolles is great at targeting smaller players at the second level and great at finishing off guys once he’s locked on them and the play is past them, but he isn’t a “bully” at all in the sense that he moves guys off the line or pushes people in the run game.
I like Moreau, but (a) doesn’t he lack the requisite arm length and (b) isn’t he hurt? If we are looking for a guy to replace an injured Shead, I’m not sure another injured CB does it.
The rest of the guys I like quite a bit.
Don’t be surprised when the starting CBs are either Lane, Thorpe, or Desire opposite Sherm if he isn’t moved.
I think its clear that Lane will start the season at RCB. No matter how highly drafted, I don’t think anyone is going to unseat Lane outside in 2017. Lane will be better on the boundary than he was in the slot, so I actually think that’s a good thing. I think a nickel has a much better shot at starting than an outside guy. Elliott is probably the primary competition there and I think Jackson, Moreau, or Baker could beat him out for that role. Because like Lane, Elliott is more equipped to play outside anyway.
I think Bolles is plenty explosive, as per TEF and the limited tape I have seen. And he can pass protect too. Can’t just put a mammoth out there who is not quick enough to match the speed rushers off the edge.
As for Moreau:
a) The hypothesis is that the strict arm length criteria applies to outside corners. Moreau would be brought in as a slot corner (though he has also shown he can play outside in a pinch).
b) There is quite a distance between destroying your knee (Shead) and tearing your pec (Moreau). He should be back for camp and ready to roll come preseason.
Moreau could also play FS. I wouldn’t limit him to slot/outside CB. If he could back up Earl and play nickel he could be very valuable. I see Desmond King in the same light as Moreau for different reasons. King is instinctive and plays quicker than his physical profile, Moreau is a special athlete, so if his instincts get there he could have a higher ceiling.
I small trade up for Bolles would be nice like that and Moreau, Kittle are also picks I really like.
Replace Gilbert with Javancy Jones and that’s a solid draft. Not sure I’d trade up in this draft, especially if I can get a player like AJax at 26. But then again, Brandon Williams is similar and costs a lot less.
Also, I’m starting to sound like a broken record, but Moreau may be a safety in the NFL.
Guys keep an eye on Julian Davenport OT from Bucknell. Davenport has the LONGEST wingspan at the Senior Bowl. Davenport has the ideal measureables for a left tackle. Dominated division II. Played and started 4 years at Bucknell. He has all the tools to start at left tackle. But he is probably a year away from starting in the NFL. This guy is on the radar of the Cincinnati Bengals. Among other teams.
Anybody checked out this guy?
“Staying in the state Bayou State, Southeastern Louisiana defensive tackle Jonathan Taylor turned in an impressive workout on Friday when he was a participant in Tulane’s pro day.
Taylor measured 6050/349 pounds, completed 30 reps on the bench, touched 27 inches in the vertical jump and 8-foot-9 in the broad jump. He ran the forty in times of, get ready for this, 4.95s and 4.91s.”
http://draftanalyst.com/da-draft-buzz-april-8
Wow, this mock draft is actually pretty good IMO. Don’t like the Hawks’ picks, but he pairs up players and team needs pretty well and gets most of them in a realistic range, which is more than can be said about a lot of other mocks out there…
By Nate Bouda of NFL Trade Rumors.com:
http://nfltraderumors.co/2017-nfl-mock-draft-two-rounds/
I like the mock, but I could almost guarantee a trade back if Marlon Humphrey, Kevin King, T.J Watt, Obi Melifonwu, Gareon Conley, and more are avaliable.
I can’t wrap my head around the idea that Marlon Humphrey isn’t a “sure thing” in the first round anymore. You draft him, play him as a rookie, and get good results from his services for a long time. What am I missing?
I don’t either. He’s the best tackler in this class at the CB position and has the best upside IMO.
Humphrey, Awuzie, and Corn Elder all have A+ tackling skills.
Agree completely
Biggest knock on Humphrey is that he gets beat badly at times, can give up big plays. Seems coach able. He has great physical tools.
Same thing was said about Sherman.
I would vomit if Ramcyzk and Lewis were Seattle’s first two picks.
Lewis?
I couldn’t agree more
Is BYU CB Michael Davis worth looking at? Has decent numbers:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=130271&draftyear=2017&genpos=CB
How about an UDFA sleeper CB?
CB-Tyler Williams, Central Arkansas 6-1/194 (AND, the Seahawks have met with him.)
2016: 13-games, 31-tkls, 26-solo, 2-TFL, *27* passes defended including 4-INT, 1-FF
(Note: 2.1/passes defended per game = #1 in FCS.)
http://ucasports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3504&path=football
Hey Rob, another great post.
I remember listening to you mention that one of the reasons why the seahawks focus on TEF for OL was because they never picked early enough to grab the really talented guys and had to rely on picking freaky athletes that they could coach up. Do you think it could be a similar thing with wingspan and CBs?
Seahawks haven’t picked a CB early before, if they do this time do you think they might buck their trend of big arm, big wingspan corners that they like drafting in later rounds? I.e. do you think the guys left at the end of the first round would be considered talented enough for the seahawks to grab them based on tape over physical characteristics?
Quite possibly. I think any CB they take early will have to have some pretty unique traits.
It is funny how much the narrative on this draft keeps changing. In the beginning we were hyping up the running backs, no it is seen as a very weak class for runners. Just a little while ago we were talking about this draft having 40 first rounders and this corner class being the best in recent years, now only the top 10 of so players are first rounders and the corner class is dreadful…
No one said that, we (as in the blog) are trying to narrow down the possible options for seattle to take.
The whole draft process is very fluid. Very easy to jump the gun/shark.
This CB class is anything but that. Its not a bad class for RBs, but quite a few guys returned to school that would’ve made it better and there’s a bunch of really solid 2’s & 3’s in terms of your RB depth chart or committee outside of a few studs.
Top end RBs are in short supply, but there are some great “average” RBs throughout the draft.
Many of these guys will have a decent careers in the NFL. Are they Marshawn or AP…. no, but that doesn’t mean they can’t become a Woodhead or Reese or some other very good piece on the right team.
I’m willing to predict that one of Seattle’s last picks will be an OW. In the same vein as a Darren Sproles, Tyreek Hill, Theo Riddick, Josh Cribbs, etc.
Anyone specific u think?
I think this crop of running backs would have helped themselves by not having some of the most middling testing numbers in years. Hard to get excited about dudes that were not fast, not explosive, and basically left you feeling the same way about them the day after the combine as you did the day the season ended.
I don’t know if the corner class is dreadful! BUt given two months to dissect one position it’s going to get pretty fractional for evaluations upon each review.
I will say personally I was stunned that King and Obi tested so well. There’s good testing and then there’s what they did.
CB Ahkello Witherspoon just feels like the second round pick for Seattle.
He measures up “literally” in all the important categories on and off the field.
The first pick for Seattle will dictate the whole draft, if they go CB or CB/S then the second pick could be up in the air. Obi and then Ahkello seem like the “safe” bets right now.
(And then they trade Sherman and the whole baby goes out with the bathwater)
If they trade Sherm after the draft that would be pointless. And its something I wouldn’t put past this FO IMHO.
Vol that doesn’t sound like you. You know negative talk like that about the FO may get YOU traded!!
Touché 😉
If Sherm gets traded, it will be on Draft Day.
I’d be very surprised if that happened.
Teams usually want to do medical checks before trading for players with big contracts. Can’t see any team making a decision to deal for him without going through that process and it’s why we rarely see veterans traded on draft day.
I see your point and it’s a good one. My thought is that a team will really want Sherm but balk at the asking price, until the pressure cooker of Draft Day forces their hand.
It’s a fair though — one some of the national folks have contemplated. Yet for it to happen, a franchise would have to neglect all of their senses to make that kind of move without a physical.
I suspect a trade won’t happen but if it does — I think there’s basically a two week window from today.
If going by Rob Rang’s big board, we have a great shot at many or all of our targets:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/nfl-draft-big-board-questions-remain-for-corey-davis-bolles-after-missed-pro-days/
61. Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson, Sr, 6-0, 199, 4.40
Long, physical press corner with a knack for making big plays (eight interceptions over past two seasons) despite possessing less-than-ideal instincts and grabby hands in coverage
49. Obi Melifonwu, S, Connecticut, rSr, 6-4, 224, 4.40
Despite starting four years for the Huskies, Melifonwu is not the most instinctive defender but he stood out at the Senior Bowl and owned the combine with his freakish speed and explosive leaping ability (44-inch vertical led all participants in 2017).
44. Kevin King, CB, Washington, Sr, 6-3, 200, 4.43
Long, athletic and a proven difference-maker at cornerback and safety, alike, in the pass-happy Pac-12, King’s reign may be just beginning.
41. Adoree’ Jackson, CB/WR/RS, Southern Cal, Jr, 5-10, 186, 4.42
Among the draft’s best overall athletes but is currently more polished as a returner than a cornerback, surrendering seven touchdowns in 2016. Watch out when his technique catches up to his talent, though.
39. T.J. Watt, OLB, Wisconsin, 6-4, 252, 4.69
Instinctive, tenacious pass rusher despite playing tight end until 2016. Watt is still growing into his body and may ultimately become a 4-3 defensive end.
36. Jarrad Davis, OLB, Florida, Sr, 6-1, 238, 4.68
Unable to work out at the combine due to the ankle injury that caused him to miss three games in 2016, Davis enjoyed a terrific pro day. He clocked in at 4.58 in the 40 and showed off a 38 1/2-inch vertical jump. It was a workout that confirmed the raw explosiveness that epitomizes Davis’ game when he’s healthy — and could make him a first-round pick.
32. Chidobe Awuzie, CB, Colorado, Sr, 6-0, 202, 4.43
Perhaps because he played for a team few outside of the West Coast watched until late in the season, Awuzie has not generated as much national attention as his talent warrants. He was an immediate standout for the Buffs, starting as a true freshman and earning second-team All-Pac 12 honors each of the past two years. Agile, instinctive and physical, Awuzie is arguably the top nickel corner in this class and has the length to play outside.
31. Garett Bolles, OT, Utah, Jr, 6-5, 297, 4.95
In terms of sheer athleticism and upside, Bolles is the most gifted tackle in this class and he plays with the brawler’s mentality that will appeal to offensive line coaches. Questions about his upper body strength and ability to anchor were not addressed at the combine or Utah’s pro day, as Bolles was unable to participate in the bench press, citing a strained left pectoral muscle. Bolles comes with undeniable upside but he is far from a sure thing, only playing one year at the FBS level and lacking the refined technique and football intelligence of most his peers.
Hate to rain on the parade, but as were all figuring out most of the big boards we find out there are not very good. I have been tracking the CBS big board for a long time and they are about as bad as any.
I agree big board wise it’s not as accurate as I would like, but I do respect Rang’s opinions and I thought there were a few nuggets worth considering, especially his negative remarks, criticism of some of the guys we seem to think only the world of. Obi, King, and Bolles might actually not be perfect, which is basically the consensus around these parts 😉
I don’t think we’ve decided they are perfect. Just that they would be good fits for the Hawks. That’s certainly doesn’t mean other teams wouldn’t think they would be fits for them as well… just look at the number of teams who met with Obi or how fast King has risen up the board. Rob has acknowledged that each of those guys listed has their own flaws.
The silver lining is that they do have flaws and that give me hope that my favorite guys aren’t all snapped up before 26!
A lot of those players, IMO, won’t be available.
King and Witherspoon and I´ll be a happy boy. (And the tiny dream of a Sidney Jones in the third.)
Still hard for me to believe Witherspoon is a real Seahawk type of CB when a struggle so much tackling. That is just not the Seahawk way. Even more concerning when there are a lot of CBs in this draft that are great tackles. Don’t get me wrong, I know all the upside on Witherspoon and his airborne talents. And I also know there is a lot of talk about teaching him how to tackle. I know it can be done, but I struggle teaching this defensive fundamental that really should come with the package.
Seems like King and Witherspoon are the same. Personally I think we only need 1
They are similar style players, but we might need both by 2018 or 2019. No reason to pass on a starter for 2018, even if he’s just depth in 2017. Not every draft will yield the same prospects. Besides, how do we know which is better unless we just take both and decide afterwards which is a future HOF, and which is merely a 3-time All-Pro.
When Sherman arrived in Seattle he said himself that he wasn’t much of a tackler. But being around boomers like Kam and Earl “forced” him to also tackle hard. One of the things I feel they learn at the VMAC is tackling hard.
Any thoughts on Shaq Griffin playing the Buffalo role?
Seahawks predraft meetings/workouts from fieldgulls via Walterfootball
SR = Senior Bowl
EW = East-West Shrine game
COM = Combine
PRI = Private Visit
WOR = Private Workout
LOC = Local visit
STM = “Some Type of Meeting”
^ = multiple visits
Full list, courtesy of Walter Football
Isaac Asiata, G/C, Utah (SR)
Antony Auclair, TE, Laval (EW)
Budda Baker, S, Washington (COM)
Zach Banner, G/OT, USC (COM)
Jonathan Calvin, DE, Mississippi State (PRI)
Xavier Coleman, CB, Portland State (LOC)
Dalton Crossan, RB, New Hampshire (PRI)
Shaquill Griffin, CB, UCF (PRI)
David Jones^, FS, Richmond (PRI, PRO)
Javancy Jones, OLB, Jacksonville State (EW)
Shalom Luani, SS, Washington State (COM)
Obi Melifonwu^, S, Connecticut (COM, PRI)
Carroll Phillips, OLB/DE/3-4OLB, Illinois (SR)
Grover Stewart, DT, Albany State (STM)
Cordrea Tankersley, CB, Clemson (COM)
Dalvin Tomlinson, DT/NT, Alabama (COM)
Josh Tupou, DT, Colorado (PRI)
Chad Williams, WR, Grambling (PRO)
Tim Williams, OLB/DE/3-4OLB, Alabama (WOR)
Brandon Wilson, CB, Houston (WOR)
Deangelo Yancey, WR, Purdue (PRI)
Are we missing anybody.. Vol?
Thanks for putting that together Kenny.
Quick mock based on visits and need:
1. Obi Melinfonwu
2. Cordrea Tankersley
3. Caroll Phillips
3. Brandon Wilson
3. Grover Stewart
6. Anthony Auclair
7. Deangelo Yancey
Unless we have a monster value sitting there for us with our third third round draft pick, I’m a proponent of trading down to get some extra pics. Even though JS says there is a quality gap in there, players like Luani, Brandon Wilson and others are just too valuable to pass up on when a trad down Provides so many additional quality players.
That makes me curious about the roster and roster depth specifically, as we will face some decisions on who doesn’t make the team, possibly made harder the more picks we utilize in the draft.
You make a good point. However, in my opinion, it wouldn’t be such a bad thing to have to make some hard decisions and let the cream come to the top with the group we select. I made another post not long ago, I would also really like our practice squad to be full of players that could actually play in a game and actually perform at a satisfactory level instead of putting the team at risk, which seems to be the general situation with our current practice squad. I understand that’s a bold statement, but it’s also a generalization that I would like to have corrected .
Hawk Talk. Are you a right handed or a left handed tennis player?
RH
Interesting mock that could potentially happen that I found on BR. What would you guys do here? Kevin King, Obi, Jackson, John Ross are all still on the board. It has us taking Bolles. I’m a big fan of taking Kevin King here, but John Ross is screaming at me as well. What are your thoughts?
1 Cleveland Browns – Myles Garrett, DE, Texas A&M
2 San Francisco – 49ers Solomon Thomas, DE, Stanford
3 Chicago Bears – Jamal Adams, S, LSU
4 Jacksonville Jaguars – Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU
5 Tennessee Titans (from LAR) – Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan
6 New York Jets – Malik Hooker, S, Ohio State
7 Los Angeles Chargers – Jonathan Allen, DL, Alabama
8 Carolina Panthers – Marshon Lattimore, CB, Ohio State
9 Cincinnati Bengals – Haason Reddick, LB, Temple
10 Buffalo Bills – Mike Williams, WR, Clemson
11 New Orleans Saints – Derek Barnett, DE, Tennessee
12 Cleveland Browns (from PHI) – Mitchell Trubisky, QB, North Carolina
13 Arizona Cardinals – Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson
14 Philadelphia Eagles (from MIN) – Tre’Davious White, CB, LSU
15 Indianapolis Colts – Reuben Foster, LB, Alabama
16 Baltimore Ravens – O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama
17 Washington Redskins – Malik McDowell, DT, Michigan State
18 Tennessee Titans – Charles Harris, DE, Missouri
19 Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Christian McCaffrey, RB, Stanford
20 Denver Broncos – Forrest Lamp, OL, Western Kentucky
21 Detroit Lions – Takkarist McKinley, LB, UCLA
22 Miami Dolphins – Gareon Conley, CB, Ohio State
23 New York Giants – David Njoku, TE, Miami
24 Oakland Raiders – Jabrill Peppers, LB, Michigan
25 Houston Texans – Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech
26 Seattle Seahawks – Garett Bolles, OT, Utah
27 Kansas City Chiefs – John Ross, WR, Washington
28 Dallas Cowboys – Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan
29 Green Bay Packers – Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State
30 Pittsburgh Steelers – Obi Melifonwu, S, Connecticut
31 Atlanta Falcons – Jordan Willis, DE, Kansas State
32 New Orleans Saints (from NE) – Adoree’ Jackson, CB, USC
Regarding real needs IMO and JS’s need comments, I think Seattle is currently in the most amount of trouble/need at CB. WR is definately farther down the list and I think it would hurt the team if we added Offensive rookies when the real need is on D. OL now appears to be a value debate with the incremental difference we would get over our 2nd year OL and FA OL vs CB help given previously stated issues with Shead and Lane. Gotta go DB/CB (including OBI as an option) in my book.
Tennis question. When serving in the ad court. When you go down the T (first serve) do you go flat or slice?
I find this, like so many questions like it, are ver situational and depend on the opponent. All things being equal, which they’re generally not, I would say slice as you can be more consistent with it (#1 advantage as 1st serve percentage is always critical). Also can me harder for an opponent to hit and moving, severely breaking target.
Hawk Talk: I have been working on trying to slice it down the T. It’s been a struggle. It goes wide. Any tips/ideas.
The problem with that serve is that you’re working with a very small percentage of the service box and unless that is a reliable serve it is not a high percentage choice. To improve that you just need to target a spot more inside the box and as your consistency goes up then progress closer to the tee. Another effective serve that is higher percentage is a slice serve to the opponents backhand/body. Those inside serves that are breaking can be a bear to get around and do something constructive with. They also give a doubles partner a lot of ducks to kill. 🙂
My best guess at SEA’s top 5 players even remotely likely to be available at 26:
1. Bolles
2. Reddick/Obi
3. Obi/Reddick
4. King
5. AJax
I used to think Reddick over Obi, but now am of the opinion Obi is such a unique athlete and so perfectly fits the Buffalo position (and has potential to fill multiple needs – CB, slot/Buffalo, safety) that he’s probably more desirable to SEA.
Question of the day. I heard that George Fant is having a fantastic off season. Here is the question: How does Pete Carroll know that Fant is having a fantastic off season if he is not supposed to communicate with his players? BTW : Does anyone know the off season rules in regards to communicating with your players?
Article 21, Section 2 of the CBA: prior to the start of offseason programs, players can’t participate in team-supervised workouts, practices, group/individual meetings, film study or playbook study with coaches. Players are allowed to work out in the team facility, with strength and conditioning coaches prevented from supervising workouts but permitted into supervise the weight room to prevent injury and correct misuse of the equipment.
Bottom line: there’s no prohibition on phone calls or discussions that don’t amount to meetings, film study, or playbook study.
C-Hawk: Thanks for clearing that up. Apreciated.
My pleasure RW
What do you mean when you say “I heard” ? Can you link to a tweet or a report? Or was something said on sports radio?
Kyle : Nice work. As good as anybody else’s mock draft.
Yep true, but unfortunately I think the most realistic draft would have King, OBI and Davis all gone before 26. Could also be determined by the direction teams choose to be regarding BPA vs need through the first round. The number and types of trades in the top of the first and the bottom half of the first could be very wild and entertaining/stressful. 😉
I cant take credit for the mock draft, I found it on bleacher report. But I felt like for a different realistic perspective this was a great draft. We have all been harping on how good those guys are for us. the league might not view them that way. Now obviously I would change a few players to make it fit my view of realistic. But tell me anywhere in this draft where you are saying no freaking way that happens. This is a feasible draft outlook honestly.
It would be real hard to pass on Bolles if he is still there.
Daniel Jeremiah, a respected draft analyst noted for his independent analysis (as is our Rob, of course), released his most recent list of the top 50 players in the draft, and it was astonishing how many of them were DBs, but also interesting was the order in which he ranked them, in particular he rated three guys who are often linked to the Seahawks well down the R2 range: Kevin King, Marlon Humphrey and Obi Melifonwu.
Anyway, fwiw… here are Jeremiah’s DBs, in order, in the top 50: Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Marshon Lattimore, Gareon Conley, Tre’Davious White, Quincy Wilson, Budda Baker, Jabrill Peppers, Adoree Jackson, Chidobe Awuzie, Josh Jones, Kevin King, Marlon Humphrey, Obi Melifonwu, Marcus Williams, and Teez Tabor (Fabian Moreau just missed the cut).
Of note to my eyes, Conley and White being rated well ahead of King/Humphrey/Melifonwu is interesting, and I wonder if John and Pete share the sentiment? Like many on this board, I am also of the opinion that Melifonwu is the most Seahawky player I have seen in the Pete/John era, and my money is on him as our R1 pick.
I will weigh in again with my opinion that at least this year, DJs mock drafts and ranked top 50 list(s) are so far off it is just nuts. Amazing how far off DJ and these guys can be and still be considered “respected”. I wish and hope his is right, but not going to happen, unfortunatly.
We, on this blog, have an almost unfair advantage on most of the rest of the draft universe, in that Rob provides us with metrics and standards that we can apply to players. And, because he has a good handle on what the team values, and does not fall in with what the national draft gurus are spouting, we have a source that shows us where the real value lies.
What he gives us makes the run of the mill sources seem pretty lame. It also gives hope that some of those others may have some sources, and that some nice plum could drop to us.
The focus on explosive linemen alone changes the way to evaluate a player, and may give us sleepers that escape the notice of those who are mostly attached to established names.
Old. Totally agree.
Funny thing: reading this blog has pretty much ruined me for all of the national draft experts and shows (and I mean that as a compliment to you, Rob.) Practically every guy they think would be the “perfect fit” for Seattle is off for some reason or another: I’m yelling at the TV things like, “his arms aren’t 32 inches” or “he had a miserable TEF score!” These guys don’t take the time to scout out Seattle’s preferences to make a more informed guess. To be fair, they have 32 teams to cover so they can’t really put in the time and effort necessary, but still. They’re picking who THEY think Seattle should draft, not who SEATTLE would draft based on past experience.
If that’s the case with Seattle, it’s probably the same way with most of the other teams in the league as well.
True, but this brings up an important point that we should consider before mocking (pun intended) national guys like Jeremiah: we are looking at guys from a Seahawks perspective, while he is ranking them from a leaguewide perspective.
Not everybody gives as much preference to length over speed/quickness in CBs as we do. Not everybody has the esteem for the OL broad jump as we do. Etc., etc. Time will tell who was right about the best players.
And then of course we have to give leeway because some of these guys are going purely off their own evaluation, some (probably DJ) are influenced by what team scouts are telling them or hinting to them about where they value guys.
What a bunch of great, on-point replies. I agree with all of them. This site and Rob have also ruined me. But in the best way possible!! If is a funny feeling now looking at may mock drafts and feeling like you know too much (but didn’t figure most of it out yourself). I like it.
While it seems right to say that a preferred player will never fall to our place, we should not be so sure of that. Back in the 2004 draft, my highest rated player was Jonathan Stewart, who I knew we would never have a chance to draft.
We were picking #23, IIRC, and he kept falling, then at 21, NE took Wilfork (not a bad pick) and my heart was in my throat, and Buffalo took a QB and I was up and screaming and we were going to have a really good RB and then we took Marcus Tubbs. Who?
My broken heart has healed sufficiently with the new Seahawks, but it still serves to remind me that almost anything can happen in a draft, especially when there is a deep early group.
Keep the faith, we may yet draft Reddick.
Here is a little 3 round draft i just did using fanspeak. I’d be going on a rager of this happened
EDGE HAASON REDDICK
TEMPLE
58: R2P26
CB ADOREE’ JACKSON
USC
90: R3P26
CB SIDNEY JONES
WASHINGTON
102: R3P38
CB MARQUEZ WHITE
FLORIDA STATE
106: R3P42
S MARCUS MAYE
Old: At the time I was ok with Tubbs. Just bad luck that Tubbs had all those injuries.
True. It might have been a good pick without the bad break, but I really wanted Stewart. But, that is old history, what is important is that similar things can happen.
Are you getting mixed up with another player? Because Jonathan Stewart was in the 2008 draft.
I’m guessing he meant Steven Jackson (both star RBs from Oregon schools is the connection/confusion, I expect).
That makes sense, I think you’re right.
It seems like most Seahawk fans posted a wish list for their mock draft.
Here is my wish list: I mean my mock draft.
1) 26 Obi Melifonwu
2 ) 58 Kevin King
3) 90 Adoree Jackson
3) 102 Jordan Willis
3) 106. JUJU Smith Schust
6) Taylor Moton
7) Davin Tomlinson
What do you think?
BTW: I will post a realistic mock draft on Wednesday the day before the draft.
3 nights in a row now I have had a dream where we got Jackson and Willis with our fits 2 picks. Not sure if it’s insight or creepy…lol
I like it. I’m kind stuck on the value of a #106 trade down to pick up Luani and more value (perhaps DeCoud as well)
Guys you got to check out the footage on Javacy Jones. This guy from Jackson State is moving up the charts. Jones has been invited to Seattle. He has a ridiculous 77 tackles for loss.
Holy cow I love that guy’s motor, tape and production.
Since 2014, the Seahawks have had a visit with their first pick in the draft. Currently Obi is the only prospect that they have looked at that will probably go in the 1st round. Hopefully the trend continues.
They have also looked at a lot of edge rushers in the 2-3 round range so I would expect a move on a DE/LEO in that range, hopefully they trade up if someone like Jordan Willis starts to fall.
Leo: Couldn’t agree more. You have draft at least one pass rusher every year.
Open question to the community:
Were you guys open to trade #58, #90 and #102 for #25 or #27, in order to have a chance of grabbing both Melifonwu and King?
I’d be more open to using one or both comp picks to move up from 58 and get as high as you can. Would like to keep 90 if possible.
+1
26 and 40 look real sweet to me
Buffalo has only 6 picks in this years draft with nothing between picks 75 and 156. A move into 46 may be easier to do.
As much as I love trading up, argue in favor of it quite frequently, and allow myself to do so in all of my mocks, historically the odds of a successful outcome are pretty sharply against a trade like that where you are giving away so many early picks.
Every time I am tempted to dream of big trade ups like that, the image of a JS interview last year never quite left the back of my mind. They asked him about having traded down in R1 last year and he said something to the effect of “yeah, we had the chance to acquire another pick”, and the look he gave to the camera/reporter was just like: duh, come on.
Tough one for me. I have a hard time giving away the few picks we have. If we could also trade down without giving up a great player with our remaining 3rd round pick, I think we could get some benefit later. DeCoud and Luani are a couple of my favorite later round picks.
Check out this article by TCU head coach Gary Patterson on some of the strategic details and coaching points for implementing the 4-2-5:
http://www.afcaweekly.com/2015/01/multiplicity-but-simplicity-why-the-4-2-5-defense/
To give credit where it’s due, I came across it linked in an article yesterday on Emerald City Swagger, in turn via FieldGulls today:
http://emeraldcityswagger.com/2017/04/09/seattle-seahawks-breaking-down-4-2-5-defense/
Read that this morning. Seems like they feel they have their “Buffalo” and unless they think of Melifonwu as a corner they might go a different direction (assuming he was even available to them).
McDougald could be a hedge.
Last thing they want is to miss out on a guy they like and be left with no option.
Yep. If Seattle wants to go all-in on the “Buffalo Nickel” approach, there’s no way they put all of their eggs in one player’s basket no matter how much they like the guy.
GM John Schneider called ” one of the highest rated defenders on our free agent board”,
Perhaps, but this comment doesn’t sound like “this guy is a hedge in case we don’t get the guy we really want”. Rob has always used quotes from PC and JS at face value. Unless one of McDougal or Melinfonwu can play corner (and barring injury at Safety) one of these guys would be on the bench and PC/JS have a stated preference of getting McDougal on the field.
Shite! McDougald!
While that is certainly a possibility, I tend to think otherwise: Obi is their guy regardless of having signed McDougald.
First of all, McDougald is just on a 1-year deal and, from what they said, was not even actively pursued, but he (his agent) came to them when he wasn’t getting what he felt was his full value on the market. A chance to reset his market, while learning from Seattle’s coaches and seeing if he fits in the LOB and they can afford him next year.
While McDougald is certainly a hedge in case they don’t get Obi, I feel he might be just as much a hedge for Kam in negotiations. Having another young, viable option at SS will prevent Kam from pinning them up against the wall and demanding Eric Berry money. And subtly, I think the accolades thrown at McDougald, while certainly true that they like him, are also a pretty direct message to Kam’s camp: we like you, but there are other options out there if you are going to ask for the moon with your age and injury history. I hope they work it out with Kam, but even with Kam, they can’t allow themselves to be taken advantage of in negotiations.
Thanks for sharing, that really is an incredible piece to read.
My pleasure contributing in whatever small way I can to the community’s knowledge and resources.
And I was struck as well by how well Seattle seems to meet all the requirements to run it.
As described in that piece, the 4-2-5 basically is Seattle’s defensive mentality summed up perfectly.
That said, as noted in the Buffalo piece we did, the only real difference between the two schemes is the extra DB instead of the SAM. Buffalo is a single-high safety cover 3.
Thanks, for the link Sea Mode! When talking about blitzing, Patterson wrote, “The possibility must exist that you can bring five to eight defensive players on any given down.” This helps explain why the 4-2-5 is so appealing, because, with the exception of the FS and CB’s, offenses have to respect the possibility of a rush from anywhere. The more a defense can increase the anxiety of the opposing QB, the better off they’ll be. More mistakes made by the QB results in more potential turnovers.
This a such a versatile defensive scheme!
The confusion this scheme can create is the only thing the current seahawks defense lacks.
The combination of K.J. Wright and Bobby Wagner don’t break up a lot of passes or get many ints. I feel this is because of the consistency they into drop into the same zones. This results in QB’s quickly diagnosing where they are and going for the easier short pass instead of challenging the tight coverage. This could potentially limit some of the short passing game used on the Seahawks in recent years by
Kenny, to answer your question up above. Missing quite a few my man. Hope this helps ya out.
Pitt RB James Conner (combine)
S. Alabama TE Gerald Everett (combine)
Colorado QB Sefo Liufau (combine)
Florida OT David Sharpe (combine)
Arizona WR Trey Griffey (pro day)
C. Arkansas CB Tyler Williams (pro day/workout)
NW OK St. CB Josh Norris (pro day/workout)
W. Georgia EDGE Dylan Donahue (pro day/workout)
W. Georgia LB/FB Alex Armah (pro day/workout)
Montana EDGE Caleb Kidder (pro day/workout)
LSU track star Cyril Gray (VMAC visit)
N. Dakota C Michael Coe (VMAC visit)
Kansas OL/C D’Andre Banks (pro day)
Michigan ST. S Montae Nicholson (VMAC visit)
* Virginia Union CB Rodeshawn Joseph
And they were paying close attention to OK St. RB Chris Carson during his pro day. Along with the Raiders.
And USC DT Stevie ‘T’ (he said Seattle along with 3 other teams have shown the most interest in him)
Some type of interest in DT’s Rod Henderson W.Alabama & Idaho DT Glenn Antoine
Sorry. Went back to my notebook and keep finding guys.
This may mean absolutely nothing, a right time & place situation, but Wazzu WR River Cracraft has spent some of his off-season working out with RW
Add – From draft analyst website:
DT-Rod Hendrickson, Alabama St. met with Seahawks at pro-day
DT-Josh Topou has official visit set-up.
DT-Grover Stewart has official visit set-up.
OLB-Jonathan Calvin has official visit set-up
Yeah, Kenny had those listed up above.
Thank you.
This is why Rob’s site is the best.
And Oregon St OL Dustin Stanton (VMAC visit) former TE.
Awesome info thanks Vol.
Oh boy, here we go now…
Jeff Howe of the Boston Herald
@jeffphowe
Marshawn Lynch update: He has privately expressed interest in playing for Patriots if talks break off with Raiders. Keep an eye on that.
9:46 AM – 10 Apr 2017
fake news? i hope?
That would break my heart.
Probably nearly every player in the league has “privately expressed interest in playing for the Patriots”.
+1. Anyone in their right mind would want to play there.
Their winning another one. Can’t see anybody beating them. With or without Lynch.
Actually, even I privately expressed interest in playing for the Patriots once. That is some serious smoke and may be intended to put some pressure on the Raiders FO to get the deal done. They don’t want to miss out on that great PR opportunity. Could also put a lot more butts in seats.
If we could somehow get Jackson, and Meliwonfu, I may turn myself inside out with joy. Of course I would then be dead, but the Hawks would be set.
+1
A name to keep in mind late or udfa is Jeremy Clark, cb Michigan. Hurt most of this year but productive before his injury. 6’3″ 220 lbs, long arms, physical nature and good closing speed.
I’d like to hear more about Michael Davis, CB, BYU. 4.35 wheels, size, wingspan…
These are great notification that a new article is posted. Please keep doing this thanks!!