Seattle should’ve beaten the Bengals
Geno Smith isn’t a bad quarterback. Far from it.
There are others who are worse. It’s not a huge problem for the Seahawks to have Smith as their starter in 2023 and perhaps even 2024.
That said, in 12 months time they can’t afford to be sitting with the same two quarterbacks on their active roster.
This is a team that is developing well. The last two drafts were A+ efforts. Key free agent signings such as Dre’Mont Jones are starting to make an impact. The defense is improving and could become a legit identity and strength. They have talented players on offense, defense and special teams.
However, I don’t think the Seahawks have a quarterback who can be the difference in key moments. Sunday in Cincinnati showed that to me. The defense shut down the opponent. You’re consistently in scoring range in the red-zone. You don’t execute and you throw away a win you really should’ve had.
That’s when your quarterback steps up to the plate.
Everything was there. His left tackle was back on the field. Smith had all of his weapons available. Go and finish the job.
I appreciate the pass-protection was poor against the Bengals. However, Smith was also hesitant throughout the day. This was especially the case on the final play of the game. He admitted after that Colby Parkinson was the initial read. Parkinson was running to the left pylon in what had to be a quick throw to a spot delivered with anticipation. Instead, Smith was far too late, held on to the ball and never gave any receiver or tight end an opportunity to make a play. You cannot eat the pressure in that situation, the ball has to come out.
There were other moments of hesitancy too, including this egregious missed opportunity to Jaxon Smith-Njigba, a play Pete Carroll described on Monday as one they’d been working on all week:
After a well scripted opening drive, executed to perfection, the Seahawks scored just six points for the remaining three quarters, eight minutes and 38 seconds.
Since the Tampa Bay game in Germany last year, the Seahawks have a 6-8 record with Smith at quarterback. He is not the only reason why they don’t have a better record but we’ve now nearly played a full slate of 17 games since the ‘hot start’ of 2022. Seattle’s win/loss record since then is distinctly average and aside from some notable exceptions (Detroit on the road) so is Smith’s play.
He’s thrown 22 touchdowns and 11 interceptions during this spell. It’s a fairly unremarkable statistic — basically 1.5 touchdowns a game compared to 0.8 interceptions. However, as we noted at the end of last season, the number of turnovers could’ve been far higher. He had unnatural turnover fortune in 2022. On average 80.6% of a quarterback’s turnover worthy plays result in actual turnovers. Smith saw only 48% of his turnover worthy plays result in a turnover.
Given the dropped red-zone interception we saw at the end of the Bengals game, that lucky streak is continuing it seems — although he’s now only throwing one touchdown a game compared to 0.6 turnovers per week.
His passer rating since the Tampa Bay game last year is a fairly average 93.5. His QBR, if you prefer that method, is 53.6. For context, Kenny Pickett had a 53.6 QBR in 2022 as a rookie.
For all the feel-good nature of Smith’s improbable explosion at the start of last season, not to mention the Seahawks’ surprising 6-3 start against the odds, he’s since been an unspectacular quarterback leading a 6-8 record.
Just look at his 2023 season so far. An excellent performance against Detroit (Seattle seems to be their kryptonite) is off-set with a poor performance against the Bengals, a horrible second half against the Rams, a bad first half against the Panthers and a forgettable performance against the Giants where he spent the second half trying to fight everyone. Smith has five touchdowns and three interceptions in five games. He’s on pace for a 17/10 touchdown/interception ratio. The Seahawks are a ‘meh’ 3-2.
All of this is fine if we embrace Smith as a bridge to whatever comes next. With that mentality, all of these statistics and records are more than tolerable.
Is that how the Seahawks view things though? Is he a bridge? Or are they seriously viewing him as ‘the answer’?
That question won’t be answered until next March or April — but it’ll have me thinking about it with every squandered game like Sunday.
Certainly there are plenty of people prepared to tell you ‘Geno is the man’ and that they’ve ‘found their quarterback’. That’s a position I’m not comfortable with. It places the Seahawks in a position where, similar to the Vikings over the years with Kirk Cousins, you might always have a limited ceiling without finding an upgrade.
The Vikings haven’t done enough to improve (spending one third round pick on Kellen Mond) and I hope the Seahawks also don’t fall into that trap. Minnesota wasted years on Cousins, not to mention a lot of money.
I would argue Smith’s statistics and Seattle’s record over the last 14 games (heck, the last five games) show there is a limited ceiling currently.
As I keep noting, they’re set to pay Smith anywhere between $31.1m and $41.1m next season depending on whether he hits his accelerators. At the moment, it is looking like it could be a challenge to match last year’s numbers for touchdowns, yards, completions and passer rating. It’s $2m a pop for each of those. The nine wins might be easier to achieve. Even at $33.3m, a difficult conversation is required at the end of the season.
With so little to spend (a projected $7.3m only in 2024, all of it rolled over from this year) and several starters needing to be retained or replaced, the question of Smith’s contract feels to me like a weekly talking point until the season concludes. He either needs to prove emphatically it’s a non-issue by performing at a high standard consistently, or we need to talk about it.
This isn’t a situation like last year where he was a glorious bargain. Every game in 2023 is a chapter in a story that will determine whether he’s value for money in 2024 — at a critical point in the most recent Seahawks reset.
It isn’t just about money though. It’s about the fact that Smith is replaceable. Just as Alex Smith was in Kansas City. Just as Carson Wentz was in Philadelphia. Just as Jimmy Garoppolo was in San Francisco.
All of those teams had ‘adequate’ quarterback situations. All aggressively sought to improve, provide competition and look for more. San Francisco’s attempt admittedly has been a bit of an adventure — but all three were able to improve their situations by not settling and they’re better for it.
I hope the Seahawks won’t settle either. It’s easier to tolerate the performance level, win/loss record and statistics with Smith if you know it’s a means to an end. If you have a younger, talented option waiting in the wings — developing and learning — as a fan I think you can see what the plan is.
I suppose the level of unknown at the moment is the troubling thing. We just don’t know what they think and won’t have answers for months.
I don’t think Drew Lock will prove to be the long term solution at quarterback. If he was, he probably would’ve won the job in the first place. So do they seriously think Geno Smith can lead the Seahawls to the promise land? Or are they prepared to go and draft a QB next year to make Smith the bridge he’s suited to be? Or make Lock the bridge?
That to me is the priority for this team. A lot of the pieces are there but they need a quarterback who can win that game in Cincinnati. That can lead this team to more than 6-8 over a 14-game stretch. That can get them to 5-0 or 4-1 instead of 3-2.
I do think there are quarterbacks in the 2024 draft who can potentially get them there.
Spencer Rattler has matured so much since transferring to South Carolina. You can see his processing, decision making and willingness to play within structure is a world away from the freelancing we saw in Oklahoma. He always had a brilliant arm and natural talent. Now he’s showing he can be a proper quarterback too. Plus he’s doing it behind a horrendous O-line in the SEC — there’s plenty of transferable tape to watch. Rattler used to be mocked in the top-five for a reason and he deserves more attention than he’s getting.
Michael Penix Jr is going to start being mocked higher than he should be. While Twitter/X and elements of the media will get a bit carried away, the reality is he’s played exclusively in a system that isn’t very transferable. He’s very rarely pressured, plays a lot of ‘pitch and catch’ and ‘I’ll just throw deep and see what happens’, he throws to great receivers with a top-notch left tackle and it’s nothing like the environment he’ll face in the future. The NFL is a totally different beast and it’s difficult to project how he will handle it. He also has an injury history. That said, he has a golden arm to die for and the best quarterbacks in the league have elite arm talent. I don’t think it’s as improbable as some are suggesting that he’d be in range for Seattle and if he’s there, it wouldn’t be a bad idea at all to take a chance on his wonderful arm.
Quinn Ewers is erratic and can be frustrating at times. However, he also has the Aaron Rodgers ‘wrist-flick’ where the ball just flies out of his hand with a rapid release. The word on the street seems to be that scouts loves the upside with Ewers and while there’s certainly some up-and-down tape, I can well imagine John Schneider thinking he has the talent to reach the highest level.
I could mention others. I really like Riley Leonard for example but his high ankle sprain creates a question mark over whether he’ll declare. Caleb Williams and Drake Maye will be out of range it seems. It’s a deep quarterback class as everyone knows by now.
By April next year, it should be a strong consideration for this team to go and try to add the player to bring this altogether. They’d be justified in being aggressive to acquire that individual, too.
Until then, Smith is an adequate bridge and an inadequate long term answer. Geno being Seattle’s Alex Smith is preferable. Being Seattle’s Kirk Cousins is not.
Now they need to try and find the man who can replace him in the future and take Seattle from where they are now to the next level.
In 2012 they did just that. A year later, they were Champions.
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Thgere were times yesterday that Smith looked a lot like RW. Holding onto the ball way too long, trying to make something happen. Actually spinning INTO a sack or pressure.
Smith is playing at an 8-8 level right now, with zero excuses.
Waldron did him NO favors yesterday with no help for the pass rush at the end of the game since they were so locked in on pass, pass, pass.
We’re a draft too late on adding a developemental QB. But this coming draft it’s an absolute MUST in my eyes.
Agree about the “definition of insanity” play calling. They seem unable to quickly counter whatever a defense is doing to them.
I thought Geno looked terrible. Then I watched the Eagles. Yikes.
Geno is a choke artist !!!! Plain and simple
He starts off strong and then gets flustered under pressure
This is why he’s a great backup , we have a #1 QB
On the bench and Pete is to nice , he needs to be a coach instead
Of a friend and do what’s best for the team. Get drew lock on the field
Honestly, I hate reading people saying that Geno didn’t have a bad game, people who are supposed to know (I prefer not to say their names), Geno is not a franchise QB, every weekend I have to read that he is missing a Tackle, a Guard, part of the little use of JSN is because of Geno, yesterday JSN was open, Geno simply never threw the football to him, when he did it was HORRIBLE, he has better weapons than last year, we are simply seeing the reality that many do not want to accept, he is an average QB, his real level? ………. The one we have seen since the second part of last season
GF-
I feel this in my bones. I watched Rob and the lads live stream 1.5x as a brain cleanser after doing my post game review of other voices.
I’m one million percent over the excuses. Back to back trips to the red zone for stops. Game killing sacks. People are coasting on the fumes of two things:
1. He was a probowl qb in a down year for offense. 30td/10int 4200 yards this season looks fairly middling, if he even got there stat wise
2. The excitement of getting into the playoffs without contextualizing how we got in ( limping, 17 game season, another team’s loss…green bay)
L80 made a point above I don’t want to relitigate ad infinitum. But straight up from 2012-to I don’t know pick whatever year you like….if you’re going to say Geno looked like Wilson taking sacks why don’t we go ahead and say what Geno did not look like, which is a 5-7? year stretch where we could win any game, against any team, as long as the former Qb had the ball in his hand in the final minutes.
Straight up the easiest analytic tool for me is, I never have that 100% in my bones sense Geno is going to win the game. And yesterday he showed it again that he doesn’t have “it.”
I was going to say the same thing about the comparison to RW above. We could only be so lucky to have Geno performing like RW for his first 6-7 years as a Hawk. How soon people forget that RW would win us games over and over in situations like we had yesterday. It was a given. He was the king of comebacks.
Wilson under performed in the first half and over performed in the 4th quarter.
Smith just underperforms through out the game, and I think he is also losing his mobility.
Well said.
The ground under Geno’s feet is softening quickly.
Sure, there will be those who react to an article like this in a knee-jerk fashion, but the stats he’s put up in the last full year of games just are not good enough.
Anyone who thinks this is a knee-jerk reaction is ignoring the 6-8 record in the last 14 games and all of the individual stats presented in the piece. They validate the opinion, even if individuals disagree with the thought.
We just get locked in to our opinions. Top five offense!! Not this year. Probowl qb!! Not this year. Playoff bound!! Really folks. Go check the Rams. They are about a half game behind us but also hold the tie breaker.
And they’re coached by a man that owns Pete Carroll head to head
Plus the pleasure of playing them again…..
I watched the Oregon v Washington game at the weekend. The contrast between the QBs was very interesting. Bo Nix, who I’ve never been a big fan of, looked like someone who has played the game all his life but lacks the top end talent whereas Penix has glorious arm talent but looks like someone who only discovered a couple of months ago that sports is a thing. If you could smoosh the best bits of the two of them together you would have a potentially fantastic player.
I guess the plus for Penix is what he’s missing can be taught, whereas not so much for Nix.
I like Penix but what concerns me about him and Nix is their age. They’ll be 24 next year and another with Penix is his injury history. I like Nix’s ability to scramble and he has some physical tools but I agree on the top end talent.
Such a good analysis of both players.
Thanks Rob, insightful as always.
Probably far too early to speculate but what do you think the best approach for the front office to take is? Try and trade up to the top pick this year and take best QB in the draft or take a flyer on a mid round QB or two? Would you be disappointed if the seahawks didn’t take a QB in 2024 and instead tried to accumulate future draft stock this year for a move up after the board in 2025?
I think they should be open to everything, including being aggressive if needed
Because we won’t be picking in the top-5 anytime soon it seems, as another route – i was thinking about the Hawks maybe soon being the type of good young team that would bring in another veteran looking for a chance at a playoff run – like Stafford to the Rams.
the cupboard is pretty bare there (Cousins not a Geno upgrade IMO) – but one undeniably talented player came up who will be available – Kyler Murray. Personally, I’d pass, b/c the diva/attitude baggage he brings doesn’t seem to equate to winning. But curious on others thoughts?
You don’t necessarily need that top five pick. You will most likely have to be aggressive to some degree. It cost the bills very little to get Allen and what the chiefs paid for mahomes is nothing compared to what they got by having him.
No. They need their own guy. They have pushed it off for years and now we are where we are. No retreads, no cast offs from other teams. That is what we have with Geno.
To me it’s an easy pass, not even a consideration. They need to go all-in and no matter having a foot in both sides.
It’s been obvious for me for awhile Geno is not the answer. He’s a slightly better Tavaris Jackson, who went 7-7. Geno went 9-9 last year and 3-2 this year. He can occasionally elevate the team to a win (Detroit) but he’s also just as likely to not get the job done. I really felt a lot of those sacks were on him holding the ball too long. Nearly every time I’m thinking “Why hasn’t he thrown it yet?” Sometimes it was certainly the pressure, but I really felt most of the time he had a pretty clean pocket and more than enough time. For whatever reason he’s not seeing it, and may that’s to limit the interceptions. Those two yesterday were bad.
And why can’t we just throw fades to Metcalf in the corner of the endzone? Over and over? Or at least ONCE?
For those clamoring for Lock, I haven’t seen anything yet that says he’ll be better than Geno. However, I wouldn’t mind giving him a look later on in the season just to find out. Worst case scenario we get a higher pick in the draft for a QB. And we absolutely need to go 100% all in on a QB. If this draft isn’t it, may as well be satisfied with Kirk Cousins, spinning our wheels season after season.
I don’t know how anybody can be satisfied with status quo. I want to win Super Bowls. We all know you need a top QB to have the best chance, anything else is just wasting time. They found a way and spent a fortune on a safety, find a way to get a franchise QB for effs sake.
gdm, not meant as a reply
I don’t know I think this works nearly anywhere as a reply.
Wild comp to Tjax. Pretty nuts what the difference in time creates. With tjax it was always that he was a try hard with heart. With Geno this reactionary tribalism. Excuse making of the highest order. Arguing with people about if he’s a top 10 qb….with respect folks top ten sounds cool until you remember it’s only 32 teams. ( surprise! He’s not btw. Not this year yet.)
Thanks for the article Rob. No doubt there was some catharsis writing it after that shitshow yesterday.
PCJS simply can’t believe Geno is the answer, can they? They have to be able to see the things you’ve mentioned, don’t they? Frustrating to know we have to wait until April to find out.
London Seahawk mentioned at the end of the last thread that this game in a way will be freeing in that as fans we can lower our expectations and wait until we see a new plan for the position. It feels like a good approach to me emotionally, but the question will remain about whether a new plan will be put in place.
What concerns me about next years draft class is who are the best QBs after Caleb Williams. Each Qb after him look shaky and we have no shot at drafting Caleb.
yeah – awesome as Witherspoon is – it’s still a long-term bummer that our pick didn’t quite get us one of the top-end QB’s. I was going through all the good QB’s in the league right now – and while there are for sure some exceptions, most of the QB’s you’d want for the next 5-10 years were all top of the 1st round picks.
Every year “smart fans,” want to trot out the very few names from later rounds who made an impact. Most notably Tom Brady.
When the day is done going back 1980…if you want a winning qb the majority are first rounders. If your goal is a guy that gets multiple rings and has a shot at the HOF the majority of those are top 10 picks.
People cry about bust rates. But when you think about big time winners after Montana and Brady there just aren’t many magically out there in round two and beyond.
A mild take. Williams is currently an amazing college QB.
However until is see a Riley QB in the pros that doesn’t need a few years of getting up to speed, a whole different qb coach, or wandering around the league like a journeymen I personally feel like there will be another qb from this draft that will probably be a better pro. Who? Not sure yet.
I don’t love his size. I do not love watching him scramble around. And I do not love a week after he has a bad game in the air people telling me he “put the game on his shoulders,” and ran for OT touchdowns to have another bad game if everything isn’t humming. We already have that at QB.
I wonder if Riley ruins his guys to a degree by being so “anything defensively doesn’t matter, my offense will win championships itself.” Then they get stuck having to do it all. It gets ingrained as part of who they are and it is a problem at the next level. Hurts is the only one and he really isn’t a Riley guy.
Also huge shout-out to you for mentioning that Browns defense and the pace they were on, for them to go and drop the 9er’s. Made the game much less of a surprise to me after you made some good points last week.
Thanks!
Big Mike and I briefly noted this in the game thread but Browns have gone from “circle that as a win,” to absolute problem for our team.
After yesterday I’d venture Seattle is now in the bottom third in red zone efficiency and the Browns are currently the best red zone defense couple with maintaining their staggering stat that better than 50% of opponents plays on offense gain zero or negative yards.
Seattle needs, needs, needs to get right very soon because before they get to the hard part of their schedule they still play the number one defense in the Browns and a top five defense with the Ravens.
Rattler. He’s the only one that doesn’t give me any worries. And I think he could step in quickly. I think he is clearly #2. I think he will also be out of our range with how good of a season he is having. Hopefully other teams look at the younger guys like Maye and get fixated on them.
I’d be happy with Leonard as well. His presence in the pocket was impressive to me.
Then that’s it.
I like Leonard despite his injury. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if Leonard stays for 1 more year to improve his draft stock.
I would feel sooo much better if he declares. Just something about watching him really was clicking with me. Hopefully he thinks that if it’s deep enough, I can last to a better team.
Think Rattler could be there.
My long term thoughts are teams are not that smart and publicity matters to as many of the FO’s as fans. I haven’t really heard word one about him anywhere but here.
I really think that some teams will want the younger, flashier kid. Maye or maybe Ewers over him. Get another year or two at a younger age and try to get more potential.
Fewer coaches (Pete as an example) will like the experience and adversity more than the untapped potential.
But the Panthers could draft him and make Young available for trade. Any interest in him vs available rookies.
They did build a ton of flexibility into his contract.
Thank you for giving me hope cha.
Going back in time, I was surprised the Seahawks were willing to pay more than 20 million a year for Smith. They could have added performance bonuses on top of that. Everyone likes to say that’s too little, but he is still a backup until he performs like a good starter.
JS or Pete are really too soft in these negotiations. Defensive Linemen expect to get rich off the Seahawks, and are disappointed when they aren’t offered the big pay day that a Safety gets. Then they get disgruntled and move on, often settling for even less money than whatever the Seahawks offered because of the inflated expectations that JS and Pete have created.
Better to be a skin flint that offers the occasional performance bonus.
They settled on $25/yr with $30m in incentives, and outs after only one year. It’s brilliant.
Yes the out is brilliant. The million dollars question is will Pete take it??
Despite being convinced that Geno isn’t the guy to take the team to the next level, I still struggle to really determine where this team stands on offense. The playcalling and Geno’s performance just fluctuate too much. IMO Geno is absolutely to blame for most of these problmes, but there is just to much talent on offense to struggle this badly for multiple weeks and to still be missing a true identity.
Surely this loss was more than frustrating, but I somehow my confidence in this team isn’t completely shattered. This isn’t to say that we are close to competing for championships. At least I feel comfortable enough to say that the defense is on the right trajectory.
Some positive takeaways:
– Over the past week the D just feels more disciplined and agressive.
Jarran Reed is him. 3 Sacks from a NT is superb.
– The team can rely on three quality starting CBs. Woolen recovered well after a tough start, Witherspoon already has 7 PDs and Tre Brown (who I loved since the senior bowl) showed some impressive ball-skills on those deep throws despite beeing 5’10. These CBs finally free up Adams and the linebackers to do what they do best.
– Dre’Mont Jones is slowly waking up and Mafe continues to develop.
“Every game in 2023 is a chapter in a story that will determine whether he’s value for money in 2024 — at a critical point in the most recent Seahawks reset.”
I think that’s right – and how i’m thinking about it. I’m always hesitant to make judgements after the most extreme moments – and I think yesterday was Geno’s worst performance as a starter for the Hawks. Really for the entire game he was noticeably slower than usual in his decision-making, and it carried through all the way to that bitter ending.
But here’s what’s changing my point of view a bit – the Hawks are starting to maybe look pretty good – Mafe, Witherspoon, Woolen, Jones, Nwosu – there’s young talent there. Same on offense. The point being, this team is looking like one that’s good enough to take a real step, and if the QB they have isn’t good enough to take it with them (and really to lead them there) – then you have to be on the lookout for one who is.
I said it before so I’m repeating myself. This team is not 2012. This team is 2011 if we’re making analogues to the past. It took them three straight great drafts to get to the championship. We currently are at two in a row.
A lukewarm take here, probably, that would be a firestorm on other sites.
If Geno keeps his play stuck in first gear this season…
I’ll be out on the whole Alex Smith/mahomes concept and the “developmental,” qb in the later rounds just to try and see. I’ll start getting into the it’s time for a qbotf, no geno at 31-33 million because that’s extra good to great player money and his play is actually as of now holding back an otherwise fairly young and exciting core.
Had to take a minute before responding this morning.
First, I highly recommend listening to the post-game reaction. I find myself overly aligned with Rob’s thoughts there (listened this AM). After seeing the game in person, then watching the recording last night, Geno looked worse in person…think every joke about Kirk Cousins choking rolled up into one game. When I find myself agreeing 100% with someone I look for two alternative takes to check myself…did that and still have to say the sentiment is on point.
Some fans are clamoring to bench Geno, that is crazy talk, Geno gives the team the best chance to win right now – 2023. And like Rob said-we as fans are frustrated because we don’t know if there is a succession plan and what it is. JS can hardly come out and say ‘Geno is not the answer, we are drafting a QB’, in fact the team would be well served showing as much dedication to Geno as possible…until it doesn’t have to.
2024, fans need to see a QBotF in waiting, and only 1 of Lock/Geno on the roster. Full stop.
There are additional points here that Rob has touched on prior, do we trust PC/Waldron moving forward with a rookie QB? Is Waldron the offensive mind moving forward? Isn’t it wiser to pair a OC turned HC with the QB to maximize the championship window, rather than have a carousel of OC heading off for HC jobs?
What Geno has shown is that he is limited. That isn’t reasonably disputable. Unless we see the Bengals (or worse Rams) Geno every week he should remain the starter for 2023, and the Seahawks should try to win every game possible. There will be criticism until we as fans see the succession plan in action.
1. Geno should remain the starter.
2. Are Pete and Waldron the guys? Probably not but turns out as a fan I’m not willing to watch this otherwise ascending team middle around indefinitely with Geno as we wait for 1. Team sale, 2. Followed by a new coaching staff.
3. Qbotf in waiting? Not for me. Unless some light bulb comes on I’m not sure the next qb should be waiting behind what I’m watching now. And I’m a big proponent of the idea of waiting. I also thought Geno would be decent this year. What I want is an open and honest competition.
It’s getting to where we honestly can’t wait a year for a rookie to sit and learn. Yes, we could, but that is one more year of the 2022 class getting by. Then all of a sudden they are all due for new contracts.
For Waldron, I’ve never been sold on him. Week in and week out, there is little consistency. He gets spun around over and over again by better teams, defenses, and coaches. But like Rob said, it’s really hard to find someone new, especially with Pete running the show.
What you’re positing is my reason for saying Lock, not Geno in 2024. Give the rookie a shot against a non entrenched QB who might be starter level. If the QB is knocking down the door, no harm in keeping Lock as a backup. Also no harm in letting Lock start for a couple of weeks or even a season if need be.
No point in waiting for a sale with as far off as it seems. I’ve stated I really want PC to plan a graceful exit, one that gives him all the roses he deserves. Being the next Seahawks HC might be the most premium position open next season, they may have their pick of the crop. With Hurtt improving and Izzo looking good, a new OC/HC could make all the difference.
Yesterday the defense gift wrapped Geno a game wining opportunity, and he couldn’t get it done.
It’s a team sport, and he didn’t get much help. But teams that win their divisions, team that win their conferences, teams that win Super Bowls have QBs who find a way to get it done.
And yet none of them have empirical evidence for their position. He doesn’t have the W-L record, he doesn’t have the stats, he doesn’t have the ratings.
That’s the rub, right there.
I’m really disappointed we lost a winnable game yesterday because our QB decided to pull a Malik Willis. But I’m also really encouraged by a lot more other things. This is a team on the rise, currently limited by a the most important position on the team.
Very excited to see some of the developments. Mafe quietly turning into a super reliable player. Witherspoon still getting better every week.
3 PBUs yesterday, and at least 1 in each game so far.
Hey I’ve been as critical of Adams and that whole thing as anyone. But credit where it’s due. He was a bright spot on defense yesterday. He made plays, provided a spark and kept himself in the game the entire game.
And Tre Brown? Dude’s had several really nice games in a row.
I’m sayin
I have a few concerns.
1. The draft board isn’t looking favorable for a QB to land with the Hawks. As of now, the draft order is 1) Chicago, 2) Chicago, 3) Denver, 4) Arizona, 5) NYG, 6) NE, 7) Vikings…it’s possible to see each of these teams desiring a QB or be willing trade partners with 11) Atl, 14) LV, 15) Wash, 23) Pitt. Without more Blue Chip players emerging, QBs could go much earlier than they should in 2024.
2. I’m not convinced this organization is trying to win a SB. Like the Mariners and plenty of other teams across all leagues- ownership/management can sell tickets/jerseys just as well having a perennial Wild Card contender. No all-in moves, no tanking, bend-don’t-break, win some-lose some. Until Jody sells, there is little incentive for ownership to be aggressive with trading up in the draft. Giving up multiple R1 picks is more risky now (see Trey Lance, RW3, Bryce (TBD)).
3. 2024 Cap commitments at Safety and WR- it’s looking like we’ll almost have to get cheaper at QB via the draft. The aforementioned concerns make this scenario more challenging that it should be.
I hope I’m wrong of course and would love to see them move up to secure a good QB in R1, but I’m less optimistic of any changes at the QB position next year. Could be seeing the Drew Lock era begin with an R3 backup.
This is the worst possible scenario. Definitely call it the Mariners’ approach because anyone with half a brain can see that’s how Stanton runs his franchise through DiPoto. I can absolutely see Jody having the same outlook, sadly.
I think the Mariners’ fanbase reaction is an interesting way to understand Seahawk fanbase reaction.
The Mariners haven’t sniffed a ALCS in ages. Still riding on the ‘these are our guys’ feelgood feel of 1995 and 2001. They fell apart in the home stretch, basically censured Cal Raleigh for saying that the FO needs to be more committed to winning, had one of the most insulting press conferences in Seattle history (‘we’re doing you a favor!’), have a very vocal minority that is fed up with good/not great, and still the majority of the fanbase will love and support them.
The Seahawks fans have different (higher) expectations, but you see why everyone just loves Pete, Geno, Bobby and is content with 9 wins.
This is such a depressing post but feels right on the money. I hadn’t taken a dive into current drafting positions yet (it does seem a bit early for that), but it doesn’t look good if it falls this way. The current top five is very possible and that is scary.
Fwiw, and to counter any perceived negativity on my part, I’d absolutely love for Geno to hit every contract incentive this year.
I suppose that’s possible for ownership, but I feel confident it’s not Pete Carroll or John Schneider. They’re in it to win it every year. I don’t even know what makes you say that, other than the middling results and the Dipoto example.
And to be entirely accurate, I don’t think the Seahawks are trying to win the SB. I think they’re trying to win the division.
I agree the draft isn’t shaping up to be an easy road to the next QB. But…they have draft capital to move up and it’s a deep QB class with decent prospects slipping into the back of R1 and on Day 2.
As to 1…not every team will value every QB as a R1 grade, many will have day 2 and day 3 grades. There are a lot of players to like this year and it really is too early to speculate about who might be available in range 20-30, etc…
As to 2, I don’t think there is a mortgage the future play in 2024. That doesn’t mean that the right WB isn’t available. A young franchise QB fresh off a Super Bowl win will pump up the value.
As to 3…. Yup … sigh
I know the Seahawks are trying to win something, because otherwise they would have cleaned out the dead cap money by getting rid of Adams , Diggs and some others.
So they are trying. Heck they might even give Adams a contract extension now that he is healthy. ha ha
As far as QBs available, if 4 of the first 15 teams need quarterbacks, there goes the cream of the crop. It doesn’t matter how we rate them, they will get taken before the hawks even get a pick.
🙌🏽 Absolutely. Geno has all the attributes of a quality bridge but nothing more. That we’ll have already wasted two years of figuring this out and not having a proper young QB in the wings to plug in is the depressing part.
JS is on record with saying that he’d ideally have drafted QBs to groom but it’s been all talk, for years. I get if he hasn’t been able to grab “his guy” in any given draft but sometimes you just need to take a late flier on a guy. He doesn’t work, no loss. Now, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of losing our mid backup to FA and potentially having to cut bait with our slightly above average starter to avoid the money he’s due because of financial irresponsibility with our Safeties.
I’d have to think this will cause PCJS to either A) bring back Geno or Lock again as an expensive bridge, B) sweat out “their guy” falling to them in the draft or C) both A & B. What happens if/when “their guy” is drafted before their slot? Reach on their next QB? Sign a cheap vet to back up Geno in FA?
If they’re 100% on the next franchise QB being available to them in this next draft, they HAVE to ensure they land him, draft capital be damned. We can’t keep going with an aging career backup taking all the snaps if we have no promise of this team taking the next step in a young QB learning and growing behind him.
In the interest of helping the cap do the Seahawks look at giving Lock a starting game in the final quarter of the season if Smith has a couple of more games like this?
At the price tag he is owed next year I don’t know how you can go forward with him, if he continues to have games like this.
A few more games like this and I would see what Lock can do and if he might be the bridge (cheaper bridge) QB until a young player steps up.
This draft you have to wonder if the Seahawks like a QB early and one in the mid rounds if they take two guys and give them a better chance to come away with a starting QB. Similar to the TItans but not in back to back years.
I’m inclined to give Geno a pass on this one. The blocking was terrible in the end zones, but when he had a pocket and time he was throwing some nice passes and moving the ball. If you’re hoping for a meltdown from Geno to make things clearer going forward, I expect once Lucas returns and the interior shuffling stops he’ll slide right back into that “above average to good but not great” range. He’ll make some poor decisions but rarely enough to sink a game. We’ll still lose games once we start playing teams that aren’t the literal 2 worst offenses in the league. At this point, even though I’m not a big Geno fan, I think they’ll keep him unless the wheels really fall off. He has enough experience and character to be a great bridge and he’s playing at a level that’s not too far from his market value.
Last year after every game comments would be about this breath of fresh air from Geno.
People keep talking about the oline but last year cross and Lucas ruled.
However blythe sucked and whatever was happening at RG was bad.
Yesterday we had rusty cross, a mediocre Haynes, an improved Center by a decent margin, a better than Jackson and probably Haynes with Bradford, and Curhan.
Feels a lot like six of the same half a dozen of the other.
Maybe it really truly is the oline. There are still nine (!!) Offensive weapons most of us rate. Never in the Pete era has there been that many weapons on the field at one time.
If Waldron or Geno can’t make that work when the defense repeatedly bails you out I’m not sure how it gets better with Lucas. And there’s a chance that Lucas has a serious problem.
Where’s the line of demarcation? Cross, Lewis, brown, bradford/haynes,….is getting four of five starting linemen back enough to put it on Geno? Or is it only fair if it’s 5/5 Starting olinemen.
Remember we were praising the backups when we were winning. Hard to blame them when it’s a loss. For my eye the starters and backups in almost any combo are better than anything we had after they traded Unger.
When you are running an anticipation throw to the left pylon where the priority is to get the ball out on time and you stand there holding it and take the pressure, one person is to blame. Not studied the other plays but that was the play of the game and Geno looked hesitant all day
Ditto when you force a tight throw into double coverage because it appears you want to elevate a struggling rookie but end up tossing an INT
He was hesitant and took a lot of pressure too
I don’t think Geno is the answer going forward – the flexibility is there for a reason and they’re moving on this offseason in my opinion as the last stage of their rebuild/reset.
But at this point in the season, nothing is changing regarding the QB situation – Lock isn’t the answer anymore than Geno and benching Geno at this point is still a bad idea given the team’s playoff aspirations, so the team has to stick with him for at least this year. Any other QB option is a likely downgrade from Geno, but the team can’t resign themselves to being mired in Kirk Cousins-esque mediocrity
PC’s comments on KJR
https://twitter.com/curtis93969/status/1713956050058232095
I’m interested in the OL PFFs. I thought Bradford had mostly an ok day in pass pro except for that one sack he gave up at the end. Curhan was getting worked pretty good. But Sam Hubbard and Trey Hendrickson are a strong pair of 4-3 DEs. Hard to criticize Cross too much given it was his first game in a while.
In the first half, particularly the first several drives, Bradford and Curhan were bulldozing lanes for K9. Credit to Cincy for seeing the mismatch and making adjustments to shut that off.
If this is true, then why did Walker keep doing the Carlton behind the line of scrimmage – all day?
https://x.com/CorbinSmithNFL/status/1714272649353007259?s=20
And when you look at the replay of his late sack, it’s not even his man (although he lost the rep). It’s Curhan’s assignment, Sam Hubbard in wide 9 who loops inside behind BJ Hill that makes the sack.
https://x.com/BradyHenderson/status/1713994304669270247?s=20
Would love to see what he looks like next to Lucas, but that ain’t looking so promising atm
Don’t do X so it’s not showing up on my PC or phone. Summation? Please?
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
The Pete Carroll Show on
@SeattleSports
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@BrockHuard
and
@TheMikeSalk
#seahawks
9:32 AM · Oct 16, 2023
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4h
What happened? PC: “Missed a great opp. Shoot. Came out firing. Perfect drive. D jumps offside on 4th down. Crazy mistake. Big penalty on next drive. They’re a really good group, can’t give without paying. D great rest of day. Got to QB. Took to matchups w WRs.” #seahawks
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
PC on game: “Frustration from all opps we had. Could’ve scored 28. Couldn’t get into end zone. Two 4th down shots.” Red Zone? PC: “Didn’t fit together well. Beaten in pass rush. Had opps to get didn’t convert. Combo of things. Focus on Geno, a lot of stuff going on w pressure.”
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
Kicking FG before 2 min warning? PC: “If we don’t make it, have to stop him anyway. Whole thing (the call) exactly the way to go. Just as much chance. Perfect job, 15 seconds they had the ball. Defense gave it back to us. Thrilling to have another shot.” #Seahawks
Curtis Allen
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3h
PC: “I couldn’t believe we couldn’t score on any on those five (red zone) drives. Couldn’t believe it.” Pass pro? PC: “Yes busted on right side. Subs doing great job few games, Just kinda caught up to us. Almost too much to ask, they took advantage of it.” #Seahawks
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
Analytics come into play? PC: “Guys in my ear all the time. Not just analytics guys. Don’t have a guy sitting there in game telling me the numbers.” #Seahawks
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
DK’s play? PC: “Good solid game. Costly penalty. Just missed same TD pass threw last week. Just a little bit outside where needed to be.” #Seahawks
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
DK frustrated? PC: “That’s not what happened yesterday. Blocked aggressively. Too late, didn’t hear whistle. Clearly a penalty. Asked official close to DK please blow whistle too.” #Seahawks
Curtis Allen
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3h
DK targeted by teams to shake him? PC: “Absolutely. Teams know he’s aggressive.” #Seahawks
Curtis Allen
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3h
JSN good so far? PC: “Absolutely. He’s played with broken arm (wrist). Natural catcher. Beautiful catcher. Jumps out. Hand-eye extraordinary. Good ball player in general. Great feel.” #Seahawks
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
Pass pro? PC: “Phil (Haynes) had struggled in there. Not 100% did best he could. Jake (Curhan) turned ankle, didn’t see it. Bradford battling. Got us too many times in this game. Hard down stretch to finish. 4th D play got run through. Plenty of chances to win, not because them.”
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
Any guys back this week (Lucas?) PC: “No.” Peters? PC: “Right in it again to play this week if he’s fit and ready.” Tackle or Guard? PC: “Both. Did both in practice.” He ok with it? PC: “Rather tackle but ok. Just not ready physically last week.” #Seahawks
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
Jarran Reed reborn? PC: “Right. Best he’s ever been. Level of confidence gained. Back in the day was, but whole different now. Guys listen, awareness in game. Presence. Looks better. Pass rush AND terrific run defender. Helps guys play better.” #Seahawks
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
Screen game offense development? PC: “Practicing all the time, not getting as much out of it. Beautiful one when set up took other opp threw INT. Stuff working, just gotta keep calling it.” #Seahawks
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
Geno Smith playaction more? PC: “Right up my alley. PA game not just for passing, accents running. Always advocating it. Geno’s 80% comp with that. Want to use it a ton. Little bit harder in red zone, don’t have space.” #Seahawks
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
Downside to play action? PC: “Don’t use it in third down, exotic situations 2nd and long, don’t have as many options for QB. Like better on downs when people don’t know what you’re doing.” #Seahawks
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
Injuries? PC: “Pretty good shape. Tough physical game. Gotta see.” #seahawks
Curtis Allen
@curtis93969
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3h
You love this type of game don’t you? PC: “I do. Defense played a hard, physical game. Hard to get to Burrow, get an INT, knocking balls down. Guys fired up to play Chase after great week. See growth, feel Clint factor, excited. It’s been a process. On stuff right now.”
I hope as I age I can find enjoyment in things like losses where you were objectively in it multiple times. I love games like this with the self dealing sacks and the brain farting giving up on the run.
We’re close
Just gotta clean some things up
While it’s cool that geno throws 80% completion rate on a style that has almost no utility in the red zone…..I guess I’m old fashioned and prefer the John madden “team with the most points usually wins,” form of score keeping.
Thanks so much cha.
Really bummed about Abe. Must be fairly serious
Same. He was so good last year and he’s missing really important time. He’d be great to get back if we are serious about a late push.
I fear a lost year for Lucas.
Honestly, I’m worried about him long term if this is a chronic knee issue, which is what Pete alluded to.
On a separate note, I’m kind of at the point that I think Bobo should just be the 3rd receiver over JSN. They’ve been kind of splitting the role atm which says a lot given their relative investments, but everything we’ve seen from each suggests that Bobo is the superior player right now. Offering much more as a run blocker and frankly more as a pass catcher as well.
I’m not entirely giving up on JSN and the injury was very unfortunately timed, but if we’re truly on the ‘always compete’ mantra, then Bobo should be treated like the full time starter.
This might be true but I kind of hope it’s not. Love a great story. However if bobo ends up taking that spot yikes that’ll be some cold water on the great drafting of late.
Right now Bobo has only six targets.
Hopefully JSN gets right or they get right with him.
JSN was wide open on this potentially game winning play, suggesting maybe his lack of development isn’t entirely his fault
https://x.com/MikeDugar/status/1713957063754162350?s=20
The announcers showed Metcalf open in the end zone early in the game and not getting the pass. I have no idea what was happening with Geno on that play, he might have already thrown the ball. But anyway, a play or two later he was shoving that guy and drawing a penalty.
Yeah, Geno just didn’t see guys on a couple of plays that could have been TDs.
Really frustrating.
As usual Rob’s interpretation of things is accurate and insightful, and brings up points that others seem afraid to say.
One question I have……
How much of the offensive stagnation and apparent inability to adapt to a changing environment in a game is the play calling?
We had no answer to the pass rush, no plays to get the ball out quickly, nothing
Welllllll, the post above yours shows a wide open JSN that Geno missed and refers to the play in the first half where DK was wide open. Both of those were easy TDs and Geno missed them both. Waldron seems up and down to me, especially in the red zone but the other side of the coin is that he called those 2 plays that get those 2 guys wide open and Geno failed, twice.
It’s not gonna happen, but what would the compensation be if we traded Geno? A couple of seconds? A late first and a third or fourth rounder? I’d probably even take a second and a third.
Nothing. We aren’t going to find anyone who is going to trade for him. They could have just signed him this last year.
You wouldn’t even get a 4th for Geno. Talk of a 1st or 2nd is ludicrous.
I think Rob is “spot on” with this report. Geno is what he always has been = average. A notch above a good backup (maybe) top 10 QB who can elevate the Hawks to serious contenders = nope. He is what he is. The question every week up to and maybe after the draft is what is the succession plan? My fear is staying in quarterback purgatory for the foreseeable future.
We are already in “quarterback purgatory.” Geno is a below-average starting QB who is much better suited to being a backup and we have not drafted a QB in round 3 or earlier in over a decade.
“Purgatory” might be a bit optimistic.
great work, per usual. thank you.
i’m sure it’s been mentioned, i apologize if i’ve skipped over it: Geno would be an excellent bridge. if hawks had drafted a qb this year. alas. with no one learning behind Geno, it just looks like a mediocre qb, mediocre club.
i just don’t see the point of having Geno be the guy, now. it is painfully clear that he is what he is, which is fine, except for the price tag.
i got excited when Lock came in. i am quite certain the coaches have it correct, and that Geno gives the team the best chance at winning, and keeping things right around .500. it’s boring. Lock is gonna rip some balls around, get picked off, throw some bombs. the team isn’t a contender at this time. this playing not to lose mentality sucks.
the roster is ascending, that’s fun! the defense doesn’t suck, finally. the running game has huge potential. this blog. lots to like as a fan.
Reports last week stated that Jody ain’t selling until 2025 at the earliest. I think that means that the Seahawks will remain Pete’s pre-retirement hobby/playground for at least one more season. No major changes, I’d be shocked if they did anything at QB including drafting one. Pete doesn’t have time for that.
That said, it still surprises me that there is a conversation in 2023 over whether Geno Smith – yes, THAT Geno Smith – is a quality starting QB. On some plays yesterday Geno looked like he’d never actually seen the playbook – like an under-prepared backup. Granted, the o-line did him no favors, but I kind of agreed with DK’s reactions – the the f’n football, man – you’ve got one of the premier talents in the league running around the field wide open and can’t pull the trigger. I agree with Rob, Geno ain’t the guy. He’s a fine backup…probably.
My presence as a bridge would be Lock over Smith if the team does attempt to draft a potentially QB of the future in ’24. Lock would be substantially cheaper than Geno and his play might at least be more entertaining, though erratic. With continued improvement of the offense and defense through development and another draft, the team under Lock may, if not equal to the win total Smith might provide, at least come close.
2 Questions:
What would the Seahawks get in a trade of D, J, Metcalf? (whom I think is both a big positive as a super speedy WR, but he keeps losing his cool in almost every game and causes negative impacts).
Would that help provide capital in the draft that would enhance the opportunity to draft a potential top QB candidate? IMO: a starting WR is more easily replaced than a good+ QB & UW would seem to have a good WR-1 replacement for DJM waiting in the wings.
Counter:
Any team thinking they just needs a good reciever would probably be gearing up for the playoffs, thus a pick in the mid 20’s.
So we get a late first, but most likely a late second does that help with a trade up?
Then in the draft they spend extra picks for a qb assuming we also get to nine wins or playoffs. Now you have a qb and have to hope you strike ridiculous gold finding another DK or Lockett level talent.
The top recievers are out because we won’t have the picks. So next year an even older Lockett, jsn who with an improved game is still trending to 85 targets, 50 ish catches for 350 yards, Bobo who is on pace for around 30 targets and 170 yards, and a new guy.
I know Baldwin, lockett, and Metcalf but Seattle has spent kind of a lot on WR’s for a lot of not much relative to success.
I don’t like Metcalf’s lack of discipline either, but that can still be corrected. I highly doubt we can replace his production with Bobo, Eskridge and Young (actually with all three combined). DK has 40 TDs for us already and he would look even better with a stronger QB and with a OC who knows how to make use of his strengths.
Just FYI
Trading DK Metcalf would not net any significant cap savings until 2025. And actually it would be a net negative in 2024 because they’d have to pay the draft picks they got in return AND if they don’t use the pick for a WR, pay to replace Metcalf on the field.
Question for Rob and not sure if this will be addressed in a QB piece this week, but how concerning is Penix’s thiner lower body? Oregon brought quite a bit of pressure and it was the most pressure he probably has ever seen and was he getting up very slow after every hit. A lot of his throws were sailing when defenders were in the same zip code or were batted down.
If he had played behind Levis’ or Spencer Rattler’s offensive lines, he wouldn’t last a half. Combine that with Todd Gurley knees and his older age. No team is going to take him in round 1.
It doesn’t really bother me. I’ve never watched Penix and felt concern about his frame
The injury history, scheme and lack of transferable situations is something that I would discuss if I was a NFL decision maker though
But then I’d also spend considerable time talking about that arm
I think his leadership abilities are underestimated. He’s a team-first warrior, and has the respect of every player on that team.
Only way Lock is gonna play is if Geno gets hurt from all the pressure hes taking. They need to get him some better check downs or quicker plays. The offense feels like 2020 where defenses just started play 2 deep zone. Its predictable and not enough crossers over the middle..
Maybe from his success checking down and the high comp % last year they wanted to dial up the passing plays.. but you can see when theres good coverage or a zone look on def hes hesitant and not moving the pocket well..
Not going through progressions quickly and has difficulty finding the open man.
Can Lock do better.. probably not.. but I want to see what his arm talent might provide.
Schedule is brutal coming up.. no team right now is under .500 but the cardinals. And they have been competitive in most their games.. Hawks always find a way to make a cardinals game difficult it seems. Im not going to be excited to watch some of these games.
Hopefully they can bounce back.
Not sure about that TBH. I don’t expect this to happen but if the Seahawks go on a run here where the defense plays consistently well, he’s turning the ball over and missing opportunities to win, I don’t think they’ll give him endless rope
I agree.. theres a lot of scenarios that can happen. People have talked about Genos ankle maybe caused some of his issues sunday. Does pete carroll rest geno a game if he gets banged up? Kinda like how jamaar chase wantes burrow to sit if he wasn’t healthy. (Clearly Burrow wasnt healthy first 3 weeks.)
But one thing you said about benching Geno on instant reaction. It would probably hurt the team to bench Geno. He has incentives and accelerators and would they kook like theyre saving money to bench him? It would look that way..
He would have to play extremely poorly to be benched and I think Geno will play good enough to keep starting, they just wont be in position to win if the game is close and hes struggling a bit.
Seahawks finished poorly last year as you noted, but there was still Geno hype going into the offseason. He stays on track, i dont think pete will pull Geno, he doesnt have the guts to do so.
^^^^^^ This. ^^^^^^
Two ways Lock gets in. Geno is injured. Or Geno doesn’t play well and the Seahawks fall into a losing record. Which isn’t hard to imagine with some of the teams coming up.
I hope you’re right about this, but I think barring injury, we get Geno the rest of the year. His contract is so incentive-laden that it would give the appearance the Seahawks don’t want to pay him if they bench him and that can play negatively on future free agent acquisitions.
It can even play negatively in the current locker room and i don’t think Pete has that in him.
Is this a guy we should be paying close attention to? I’ve noticed Seattle has heavily scouted Mizzou these past 2 seasons, back to back weeks this year (including the last 2), and he could end up being a discounted Rashan Gary type. It’s not a huge need like iOL, QB, or LB. But man, like he says in the thread there. Dont find guys with his size, length, and movement skills often.
https://twitter.com/JimNagy_SB/status/1713988509738913979?t=YwJGaHrK6KbtOIVKaTUskg&s=19
I will wait until the end of the year. To decide if I want Geno Smith back. But right now I would have to say. NO. Geno is pretty good when he is NOT in the red zone. But he is going to have to play a lot better if he wants to keep his job. Don’t know if Drew Lock is the answer. I suspect he might be another Geno Smith. But how can we find out if he doesn’t play.
This team seems wholly incapable of busting off big plays. This has to be making Pete upset about the offense, it’s the first year I can remember where we look more like a west coast offense than the typical peteball style. Play action didn’t work whatsoever last week, and I don’t know why they sat on their hands and didn’t give the rock to Charbonnet after the couple weeks he had prior. With the backup line you could legitimately see them impose a physical identity on the opponent but this week was a huge step back
They were not patient in the run game.
As I pointed out in the watch points, it’s a bunch of little ones sandwiched around big explosives.
They only ran the RBs 21 times yesterday. On the #31 run defense in the NFL.
Not enough.
After reading your article I kept waiting for a signature Ken Walker run where he runs past everyone but it just never happened. Worst game plan so far this year from Waldron
The two big Arizona runs the week prior, they caught the defense over pursuing. I didn’t see any such cleverness on the Seahawks’ part, other than that Jake Bobo run behind the LOS presnap to plow the way for Walker on the 1y TD.
great article, just a hard pill to swallow.
frustrating to see them lose games they should win.
Regarding Penix and the system he plays in, does this excerpt from the Seattle Times provide you with any more comfort about his ability to play outside of a system one-read offense?
When I talk to NFL scouts about Mike, one of the things I always bring up first is his vision,” said Grubb, who added Penix has fully recovered. “So we were watching film yesterday and I was like, ‘Just tell me what you saw [on the completion to Polk].’ There was an out-breaker there by Giles [Jackson], and the safety Williams froze on that. Mike saw him freeze on the out-breaker and knew there was a vertical seam there to JP and cut it loose at exactly the same time.
“It just shows Mike’s speed to release between decision and ball out of hand and just his elite vision. Once the defender froze, he had that vertical seam, and he knew it. Then obviously [he had] a guy he trusts. JP is as tough and sure handed as anybody I’ve ever seen.”
No it does not
Let’s be right here, the UW OC is not going to be a non-partisan source on Penix
He’s got 5 years in a system that doesn’t translate to the NFL at all. There is really nothing that he can do unless they give him a game or two to do it all himself like OSU did with Stroud. He might not be able to prove anything until he’s playing an NFL game. He doesn’t have the tape to counter that system.
I’d still pass just from his health and age. A lot of knee problems before taking an NFL snap.
Where I disagree is Pete already played a short third round rookie when the other moves weren’t getting it done.
If Pete is here another two years he can easily get to top ten wins.
But I honestly don’t think that’s his motivating factor. What’s all this…..fairly successful rebuilding, btw, been for if just to win 7-8-9 wins?
I have not loved the approach to qb. But it has “mostly,” worked. Pete is beyond ridiculous at times. But I for now do not believe if Geno’s play continues as is that he will just think everything is fine.
Hardee har har. Reply fail.
Finally watched a full game of Penix this last weekend – and found it both inspiring and concerning – which basically means, I think that he has potential, but is on the raw side. The analogy that kept coming to my mind is that he was like watching a basketball player who swishes a bunch of long-range jumpers, and you find yourself thinking that he is a beautiful natural shooter, and then he airballs one so badly, that you don’t know what to think. For every 5 gorgeous throws, there were 1-2 that were sort of head-shaking.
The other thing, and i don’t if there were factors I’m not aware of – he was almost bizarrely immobile – I don’t remember him leaving the pocket even once among all his dropbacks.
He doesn’t need to be mobile and multiple knee injuries are going to help to keep you immobile. It’s actually going to be a problem kn the pros for some team. You can’t get a great thrower but as the defensive players jump up mightily in size and speed you will probably have to run a ton of max protect for him.
As I’m typing this maybe penix is the qb for the seahawks. Get as many fast wr’s as you can handle and run two plus TE sets every play and just let the wr’s run down and to the sidelines as far as possible.
He’s mobile. He just doesn’t need to run much, because his WRs get open quickly, his line protects him, and he’s a pocket guy by training. The few times he’s run, he’s been plenty athletic.
Not sure how he’s going to translate to the pro game, though. I don’t really buy the criticism about his reads being simple and lack of progressions, but I do wonder how he’ll react to consistent pressure. He got some from the Ducks this last weekend, but that’s about it….
Never believed Eugene Geno could win a playoff game and never will. There are NFL throws he can make no doubt and that’s why he was the 39th pick. Ample opportunity to draft a groomed quarterback. Makes me really wonder if Pete trusts a rookie again and I know Staton thinks this hot take should be undoubtable. Just disagree, I don’t see the Hawks front office taking opportunities for ol’ Pete when all he is about is padding his legacy. As much as Seattle is an island in the NFL, all time wins forever is something to take home in a career
I don’t get this line of thinking, if that’s honestly what they’re going for. Hopefully they’re not this dumb. How does going 9-8 and 0-1 in the playoffs pad a legacy? How well is Belichick’s legacy being padded now? If anything it’s taken a hit, and now people can say it was all Brady.
Record before Russell Wilson: 15-19
Record the first year of starting a rookie QB, Wilson: 13-6
Record during Wilson’s career: 114-62-1
Record post-Wilson: 12-11
Doing a middling job and going one and done in the playoffs is the opposite of padding a legacy. The single most important thing Pete can do to win more games and another possible Super Bowl is finding a franchise QB. Full stop. End of story.
Hugh Millen had some interesting observations on the Ian Furness show today. He seemed to think some of Geno’s problem is poor play design by Waldron and locking on to receivers. Here’s the link.
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-the-furness-show-25723929/episode/furness-h1-hugh-millen-seahawks-player-125920518/
You’re welcome.
I have to react to something after listening to this a second time. Consider the following quote,
We know that Shane Waldron is a Sean McVay disciple and his scheme emphasizes lots and lots of motion because defenses hate it. See: Home Opener. So, by the time you snap the ball, you are getting, say a 12 look, in reverse, on the shorter/longer hash than how you originally lined up.
Do you go through your reads in reverse?
Hugh can be difficult to listen to, but i think hes mostly spot on in his evaluations.
I know in college CJ Stroud was throwing the most beautiful throws, but he did have a lot of errors throughout his college career. For example, if you can remember CJ Stroud would sometimes have these mental lapses and stare at the WR long enough to get picked off. I think against Oregon 2021 he had one of these INT’s.
Rob, do you think Ewers is similar to Stroud in this sense? I wonder what Ewers is thinking most of the time, and then he’ll throw a beautiful pass like he did against Alabama which will make me believe in him again. Do you also think Ewers needs a game to shine in like Stroud did against Georgia in the CFB playoffs?
I think Stroud was on a different level to Ewers personally
” A Poor Man’s Kirk Cousins “- Geno Smith
Stroud also played very well in college and put up big numbers. Ewers hasn’t really do anything. Stroud is a very natural passer and Ewers can be too much of a coin flip on what he does.
This offense doesn’t need Joe Burrow to be explosive; a current-day incarnation of Matt Hasselbeck would be more than enough to make it formidable week in and week out. Fans can object the play calling and the protection, but to me that’s overthinking the issue.
Look at it this way: If a GM offered John Schneider the equivalent of Hasselbeck straight up for Smith, Schneider would take the deal faster than a hummingbird’s heart beats. The offense would immediately improve without changes to scheme and with an injured OL.
Smith has had more than a full season to show what he is. What we’re seeing is a QB who flashes at times and disappears for long stretches while often making questionable decisions. I don’t see how any team gets deep into the playoffs with a QB like that.
Rob feels like I’ll be doing this every week this season.
But thank you for this place.
Even when I politely comment on other sites about how it is time to be honest about Geno’s limitations, say he’s a good but not great player, it just turns into a wall of excuses and rationale.
I know folks don’t want to hear it but yards don’t matter. I know in fantasy football they do. But in real football your yards don’t matter, your completion percent while nice also doesn’t matter….as much as did you score more than your opponent.
If you are turning the ball over nearly every time you score you aren’t winning many games.
I guess all this is fair….I was definitely of the mindset the other guy needed more weapons, a better oline, and a better coordinator. But I was wrong and he fell off a cliff. So my “penance,” is listening to the same level of excuse making about Geno until the team moves on.
Why my friend? You know before you get there how it’s going to go.
Just like with me. I can read about this team from sun up to sun down, watch tape and opinion on college guys linked to the team. Rob goes far beyond what anyone else does with what little free time that we have. There’s always a hope that somewhere else will kick something up or at least be a place where you can be realistic about the team and not get offended.
Sadly, even if things start that way, you just can’t talk badly about this team. Too many people think they are destined to win the Super Bowl every year with their current roster and structure. In such a negative world, you can’t be negative about our sports team.
We’re just so far ahead of the curve here an no one wants to hear it.
Well. As a true hawks fan who likes to blame anyone or anything other than themselves….I’m going to say this is Rob’s fault. There are people postingv6 hour long unedited hawks videos for me to “enjoy.” Until Rob quits his job and does this full time….I kid of course.
Honestly because I’m hoping for a grain of truth out there. A tidbit about lucas maybe. Just something.
It’s a little refreshing to see a couple other articles or mentions of Geno’s play and his ceiling holding the team back. It’s also surprising. Didn’t expect it to come along from anywhere else this early. It’s definitely only people who are really watching the games and applying them to the team’s future and not just “eh it’s fine, we win more than we lose and he’s a nice guy.”
And then the comments call for blasphemy, it being any else’s fault, the line being injured, the current phase of the moon, the fact that we win more than we lose, and that he’s just such a gosh-darn nice guy…
A little cold water on fans grasping at reasons. Here are the stats of two qb’s that most of us don’t rate. Plus our very own Geno. Stats are from last season til present day and include that two of these qbs have played one more game this year than our team:
Qb 1: 6,226 yards. 43 tds. 18 ints. Team record, 15-8
Qb 2: 6,056 yards. 40 tds. 10 ints. Team record, 14-9
Geno: 5,451 yards. 35 tds. 14 ints. Team record, 12-10
If the story/myth of Geno didn’t exist and we end up by years end a 50/50 team again how do you think fans would feel if John said we are bringing in Qb 1 ( kirk cousins) or Qb 2 ( jared goff) on 31 million dollars for the 2024 season?
Because Cousins is the same as geno but with larger numbers. And Goff is actually better than our guy. And I’m pretty sure none of us would want either.
I’d likely take Goff IF he came with Ben Johnson as our new OC
Hard pass on Cousins tho
Same. But a ton of us would scoff at goff. Rhyme not intended.
Head Coach, Head Coach is the right answer.
The Cowboys-Chargers didn’t get all of my attention last night.
But I saw Dak Prescott running for his life and creating opportunities play after play.
To say Geno’s play is all on the OL is pretty disingenuous.
It’s all disingenuous this week:
1. Maybe it’s JSN’s fault
2. Maybe it’s “only,” 3 starting oline men.
3. Trade DK, it’s his fault
4. Waldron
We all saw what we saw. The defense might be turning into something real and GAVE Seattle plenty of chances to win. Despite the pressure Geno was pretty solid to good moving to the red zone. Once there….no answers. Not from him not from the scheme. Nada.
I watched nearly all of it and you’re right cha. Dak was able to move and groove and create chances. But like Peter said, to the fanbase it seems blame for the Cincy shitshow lies anywhere else besides Smith.
Side note: Justin Herbert had an off night. Overthrew Keenan twice on plays that would’ve gone for 6. He hits those and LA wins. He threw high and/or wide all night. That happens to all QB s now and then. If that’s what we’d seen from Geno Sunday, I for one would find it a lot easier to accept as an off day. But indecision, taking sacks on goal to go situations, slow processing, etc. is just not good.
I dont know why its suprising to people that Geno plays this poorly when he has a tough day. He stayed a backup for a reason.. burned out of ny jets for a reason. He didn’t take pressure and was indecisive then, and hes marginally better now..
But you will still see head scratching plays that make you wonder why they spent money on him..
On 4th and must score a TD to win, the one thing a QB can’t do is hold onto the ball. Better to take a Hail Mary shot that could result in an INT as much as a TD than hold onto it and squander the opportunity.
I watched Malik Willis take several sacks in the final moments of the Ravens-Titans game thinking to myself, that’s the ONE thing he can’t do.
But that’s Malik Willis.
Geno Smith knows better. Or he needs to by this stage of his career. And I don’t buy for one second the claim that it’s on Waldron for not calling the right play.
When the defense has been getting to you all day, you have to understand the need to get the ball out quickly. Even if Waldron called some intermediate routes that need time to develop, Geno can check down or audible into something that will give his team the best chance to score. Holding on to the ball in that situation and taking the sack was 100% the wrong choice and it ultimately falls on him.
Geno’s a right pretty QB when he has time. But he doesn’t seem to have ad lib skills, and even worse, seems to panic a bit under consistent pressure.
I was attempting to explain this to a coworker.
That on a 4th down, the “rules” change. It’s now or never.
A sack turns the ball over. He absolutely cannot take a sack.
Even if Geno throws a complete lollipop, a jump ball with 8 guys standing there, you have 4 possible outcomes: 1-a TD (good), 2-a defensive penalty (good), 3-an INT (bad), 4-an incompletion (bad).
Even the slightest chance at #1 or #2 is better than holding the ball and going to the ground.
I’m not sure if I penetrated the grey.
All you can do is try ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In that case, (s)he possess some really thick gray.
*possesses
I AM putting this on Waldron. HE saw the bengals getting pressure and has 2 huge TE’s to help with blocking AND he has Zach Charbonnet sitting on the bench when some downhill power runs would have worked.
The lack of creativity in the red zone is baffling. Especially when you watch the Chiefs in the red zone and even with Mahomes they come up with all sort of quirky play designs to make something happen.
Having said that didn’t Geno say Parkinson was his 1st read on the final play, and if so idk why he didn’t throw it as Parkinson had some separation.
He did say that — and the route Parkinson ran required a quick throw with anticipation. Instead, Geno held on to the ball, was really late, and gave that play no chance.
But, you know, O-line etc.
Rob, any chance that JS decides to double down on a QB this upcoming draft after years of abstaining? With the costs of a mid starter in Geno and a “who knows?” backup in Lock next season, perhaps a late day one or early day two option (Rattler, Ewers, Leonard?) and a late flier (Ward, Van Dyke?) to compete for the gig? The savings at QB with Geno and Lock gone could assist with the cap issues we’re currently staring down the barrel of. I don’t imagine Pete wouldn’t prefer to go into battle with a rookie but it’s obviously been done before. Thoughts?
They didn’t dump all their veterans and draft Russell Wilson. They had Tarvaris Jackson, brought in Matt Flynn and drafted RW in 2012.
If they did double dip in the draft, I’d hope they would bring in a veteran on a one-year contract and plan to redshirt the late pick and have the high pick be the backup.
Oh, certainly. Somehow omitted the vet backup option. Don’t think we’d prefer an all rookie depth chart. Someone like Brissett or Taylor as a cheap vet backup that could still remain competitive in games if needed would be optimal. May have to carry 3 QB if they really didn’t want to risk losing their second drafted QB but possibly worth it if the rooks both show promise in the first season.
Excellent post.
This does feel slightly familiar in terms of the non-QB talent that they’re amassing; with Geno representing a bridge QB that is tiers better than TJack and Whitehurst.
Prior to Russell’s arrival they already had Okung, Unger, Lynch, Baldwin, Tate, Rice, Miller in place offensively; with Mebane, Red, Clemons, KJ, Sherm, Browner, Thurmond, Thomas and Chancellor in place defensively .
2012 was a great situation for Russ to land in; and it appears that 24/25 could represent a similarly attractive landing spot for a young QB.
The odds of them being able to replicate that level of success? Realistically, a long shot – but the process at least feels correct again.
Baldinger likens Witherspoon to HOFer Charles Woodson
https://x.com/BaldyNFL/status/1714080856988352655?s=20
the comp that has crossed my mind is tyrann mathieu
Matt Calkins of the Times is a rising voice in the local media.
Nicely balanced article on Geno.
https://t.co/j7q86qooRT
Yes, but does he know how special Bobby Wagner is? If not, he’ll never cut it in this town….
I don’t think that anyone *truly* understands how special Bobby Wagner is…except Pete Carroll.
Hopefully someone will ask him soon, so we can get a handle on just how good he is and what he means to the team.
John Boyle, the intrepid “reporter” employed by the Seahawks whose job it is to lob softball questions to Pete at every opportunity–while pretending to be an actual sports reporter–surely knows about how good Bobby is. Because he has asked Pete that question in one form or another many, many times…
I’m sure Pete’s radio lapdog, Dave Wyman< understands just how great Bobby is too. I assume he's asked Pete the same thing plenty of times.
Why are fans so defensive of Geno? It’s like they are content with being a middling team and expecting to strive for more is “just being greedy.” So much blame being placed on Waldron and the OL. Pretty sure if Lock was playing the blame would be squarely on him. This unquestioned devotion to a mediocre QB from a large portion of the fanbase is very alarming and if anyone raises any concern they are a “hater.” Go figure..
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/why-its-ok-to-debate-geno-smiths-contract-situation#comment-672821
I remember this. So good cha!
Beat me to it…seeing Twitter appreciation posts for Geno…just fucking weird. It’s all coaching’s fault, BUT not Pete Carroll, at all.
Pete and Geno can never be blamed. And if you blame Pete; you’re just ungrateful and stupid. If you blame Geno, you’re ungrateful, stupid, and racist (as I read many times yesterday). Weird how that wasn’t the case with RW criticism, huh?
I used to love this fanbase and interacting with fellow fans. Outside of this board, it’s so fricking bad. Somebody further down nailed it; Seattle sports lives for “hey it could be worse!” If they had their way – we’d go 9-8 for the next 50 years with an 80 year old Geno and a 120 year old Pete.
Because they are Seahawks fans
If there isn’t some way of splitting everyone into teams and arguing online, Seahawks fans lose the ability to breathe oxygen
I refuse to be on the oxygen-breathing side of things.
Rob’s point is not far off.
Pre-2005, Seahawks fans were a pretty homogeneous bunch who agreed on most things, and most disagreements were civil.
The fan base grew steadily post-2005, and rapidly post-2013. This coincided with the rise of social media and internet tough guys. Rather than being than being the only guy at the bar with crazy opinion, you now have friends. Also, the 710 crowd would typically talk 710 stuff at the water cooler or wherever.
You now have a much more diverse fan base, in an era with instant commenting, interacting. There are going to be divisions, artifacts of our current culture war, all sorts of things. If it isn’t one thing, it’ll be the next.
The same users, who are good with me last summer, when I said Geno wasn’t as bad as they made him out to be, now routinely called me a hater, or say careful what you wish for, when I’m critical – or suggest a different direction is needed in 2024. I’m starting to experience the same exact thing with the defensive line. I felt like a broken record over the summer and in preseason saying that I thought the defensive line would exceeded peoples expectations. Same users who commented that I was certifiably insane, now question why I would want to waste too early draft picks on the line next year, when they aren’t positions of need.
Consider, every time DK gets a flag, people come out of the woodwork, demanding he be benched, traded, or cut. Consider, that Hawk-pundits were holding up PFF last week as a great indicator, and still were, right up until Anthony Bradford’s grade from this week came out…because the ‘offensive line was the problem, not Geno’.
I actually blame a lot of the Seahawks media for the way fans are divided, I used to subscribe to some channel (cannot remember what), this offseason the host of one of their shows said drafting a QB, and anyone saying that was ‘stupid, stupid, stupid…’. I just unsubscribed, I don’t have time for that nonsense. However when you have influential bloggers and media types engaged in that sort of discourse, it feeds into a fan mentality where civility is second to owning your ‘opponents’.
I mean, I commented that I was right about Purdy and the Browns game and users with Hawks-linked usernames went after me for daring to suggest Purdy was less than an all-pro without his elite supporting cast. That is bizarre, and just kind of speaks to the volatility and low level discourse you can get from Hawks fans these days.
Great post Lou.
And btw, I am one who thinks DK should be traded or at the very least, benched for a quarter+ when he commits the next immaturity based personal foul penalty that hurts the team.
I definitely think benched.
I’m anti trade because 1. Most fans even folks here think our players are worth more than they are probably because our own team spends too much. 2. Everytime you trade an asset that you don’t want the sale price goes way down.
If we could get a first and a third for almost anyone on the roster you have to at least consider it. I just don’t see that for DK and right now the WR room minus him is pretty uninspiring.
I’ve learned my lesson.
I think there is always reasonable room for debate.
My take is no one was screaming to bench Geno when he was try My to fight the Giants.
Just going to shout out a guy I watch who does two things very well:
1. Has a very pro-team, pro our guys usually rule vibe.
2. But, if you comment calmly and succinctly and don’t argue with usernames “tophawk696912345” or similar with their all caps takes….the host does a great job taking in different ideas.
Just if you’re jonesing for a little reasoned hawks talk. He’s Dan Viens on YouTube or “seahawks forever.” Rob’s talked to him about draft stuff before.
A recent show, post bengals loss, while he was definitely giving reasons other than Geno for the failures he had a great simple break down of game film of exact throws Geno completely whiffed on.
I would never attribute this to me but after commenting calmly “hey geno is on pace for 17/10 this year and currently 22/11 post munich,” he’ll get back on another show and talk about seeing a different side of the Geno argument.
I can’t agree with this enough. For whatever reason (like you said, Seattle getting good at a time when it was very easy to be a keyboard warrior), the local media is making it worse. Making too over-the-top, have-to-be-100% pro team and pro Pete, John, Geno, Jamal, Tom, Dick, and Harry. Them and the fans that inject that thinking into their veins are definitely loyal.
I think there is also a cult of personality, especially around Pete. It’s just who he is and what has created because of who and how he is. Anything like that leads to…a lower level of normal common sense.
You guys nailed it – Seattle media is like the PR arm for the DPRK. There’s nothing critical or thought provoking. It’s guys like Corbin Smith fapping all over the organization. I don’t need the media to crap on the team; just don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.
An honest question that can’t be found outside this site; “where are the Seahawks going? Is this merely a team built to limp into a wild card spot?”
All we get from the media is “how wonderful is X” and snarky Twitter posts about Russell Wilson. That’s it.
Most Seattle Fans are content with average and happy if their team is a winner every few decades or so. The Seahawks won a Superbowl in 2013, so Pete and John have immunity until 2033.
The most pathetic franchise in baseball is the Mariners. They have one good team in 2001 and another decent team in 2022 and most Seattle fans are perfectly ok with the decades of irrelevance.
But, but.Edgar! 1995!
SMDH
I don’t know. I like Romeo’s comments usually…but omitting the absolutely rosterbating fantasy lineup level performances of the ’97 team seems like an obvious omission😀.
Bobby Ayala!!
Mr. Blown Save himself
I keep hearing that Mariners fans are “ok” with irrelevance or mediocrity, but I don’t know any Mariners fans that are happy with the team. small sample size, to be sure, but I have yet to meet anyone who is happy with a good season every decade or two.
I will admit that my all-time favorite sports team is the 2001 Mariners. I never had so much fun following a sports team for an entire season. I was disappointed that they lost in the playoffs, but I wouldn’t give that season up for anything.
I’d give it up in a nanosecond for a 90 win season that ended up with a championship. Just.One.In.My.Lifetime
This right here Big Mike! Being on the east coast makes it hard to watch many M’s games and Im more invested in the Seahawks now but I ate slept and drank baseball as a kid. The fact theyve been so bad since 2001 doesnt help. Neither does choking away a division that was there to be won this year.
The structure of Geno’s contract is SOLID. I don’t personally think Geno is worth $31M next season and we need to look elsewhere. Drafting a QB in the ‘24 draft is a must. Tentatively, we’re drafting in the late-teens/early-20s. I know that QBs drafted there would typically be the type to sit, but who knows…
I look at how the Colts approached the draft and FA regarding the QB situation. They signed Gardner Minshew to a 1-yr/$3.5M deal with incentives to be the backup/hedge QB. The incentives can reach up to $2M and with Anthony Richardson now hurt, Minshew could finish out the season. While the pre-draft stuff with QB made it look like they were taking a QB early, we don’t have the same luxury of a Top-5 pick.
Could we be in a position of Matt Flynn/Russell Wilson sign/draft??? Make a decision that isn’t Geno & $31M on another QB to duke it out with a Rookie to start?
https://youtu.be/Qe060zKNXPE?si=-vetSTBL4o44t-At
5:20 in Florio’s comments worth a listen
The whole segment is worth a listen.
The comments are worth a perusal too. Lots of the same stuff heard everywhere that isn’t here…………’not Geno’s fault’.
Good segment. Really dislike the parallels people are making to mahomes, Brady, etc….”well they all had a bad game,”…yep they did. But and this shouldn’t be hard here Geno isn’t in any of those players air.
I don’t know why everything in this life has to be locked on viewpoints and tribalism. Geno is clearly a plus qb if everything is lined out for him. And he has pretty big limitations if everything isn’t calibrated perfectly. And that’s okay.
But do you ever lose faith in them? Did they ever get counted out? Look in over their heads? Not. At. All.
Dan Patrick was talking about Herbert needing to get more blame for how horrible he is in the 4th quarter and OT. He mentioned to be elite, Brady, Rodgers, …and Russ could be counted on to lead something at the end of the game to give the team a chance. I’ve regretted turning games off because I missed Russ doing something amazing and pulling it out.
Geno can’t do that or be that. Yes, he has had a couple games this last year where he’s pulled them back. But with his play, the weapons, and what the offense has done? No.
Yeah. I never count on it with him.
It’s weird that the choir is getting louder with Herbert. Such a talent but the chargers feel cursed at this point.
Let’s play a game. (In Jigsaw voice.)
You are Jim Nagy. You must select six quarterbacks for the Senior Bowl, three for each team. Of the original 46 Players on his watchlist, I have narrowed it down to these 18. Remember that when inviting the top prospects, sometimes they pull an A.J. McCarron and decline to open the door for Russell Wilson.
Here’s the eighteen.
KJ Jefferson, Arkansas
Payton Thorne, Auburn
Graham Metz, Florida
Jordan Travis, Florida State
Carson Beck, UGA
Jalon Daniels, Kansas
Jayden Daniels, LSU
Taulisa Tagovailoa, Maryland
Tyler Van Dyke, Miami
Sam Hartman, Notre Dame
Bo Nix, Oregon
Dj Ugialalelei, Oregon State
JT Daniels, Rice
Spencer Rattler, South Carolina
Michael Pratt, Tulane
Michael Pennix Jr, Washington
Cameron Ward, Washington State
Austin Reed, Western Kentucky.
Go!
Graham Mertz, doh!
Penix
Nix
Ward
Rattler
Daniels
Travis
Which Daniels?
There are three. Jalon, Jadyn, and JT.
Sam Hartman, Notre Dame
Bo Nix, Oregon
Dj Ugialalelei, Oregon State
Spencer Rattler, South Carolina
Michael Pratt, Tulane
Michael Pennix Jr, Washington
Six from these nine:
Jordan Travis, Florida State
Carson Beck, UGA
Jayden Daniels, LSU
Taulisa Tagovailoa, Maryland
Tyler Van Dyke, Miami
Bo Nix, Oregon
Spencer Rattler, South Carolina
Michael Pratt, Tulane
Michael Pennix Jr, Washington
Cameron Ward, Washington State
Tomorrow’s watch points today:
I’ve circled the Bengals as weirdly this late in the season as the measuring stick what this team really is.
With a now great win against Detroit and an increasingly lame loss to the Rams, this upcoming AZ game will most likely show me personally nothing. That game is in “gotta have it territory.” Turning 3-2 into 3-3 will be a horrible blow but turning it into 4-2 is essentially a must have. No excuses.
But the Browns. By then the oline “should,” be: Cross, Lewis, Brown, bradford/Haynes, peters?…4 of 5 starters and nine weapons barring injury vs. The best defense in the league.
Looking forward with AZ twice, steelers, titans, and commanders that’s five wins against teams that we are, on paper, better than. That’s 8 wins. Which might do it to get to the playoffs. Other than that I don’t really see the give me wins. Ravens will be a true great test of where we really are. I’d like to say the Rams but the Rams going on forever have our number.
Very much enjoy our defense and it’s growth. By a twist of fate our run defense remains great but….we’ve also lucked into missing either great running teams or teams have lost their running attack prior to facing them.
Do you include the Lions on that list of teams we’ve faced re running attacks? Montgomery played. And what criteria are you using for teams that have lost their running attack? i think you could use that point for most NFL teams, it’s not spcecifically a Seattle thing.
At some point, we may be ok saying our run D is competent, rather than scrabbling around for reasons it isn’t,
Montgomery left the game after a tackle.
Easy criteria. Chubb is out for tge year and so is Conner. Both teams prior to and including those injuries were top ten running attacks.
Carolina had about 15 total running plays. So not really a run threat.
The giants. Their best runner was their QB.
I’ll guess we’ll find out shortly. As I see browns, ravens and cardinals all are top ten.
Seattle’s run defense has looked good. But are we the reason Carolina, giants and bengals are bottom third teams in production or are we benefitting from them not being good.