The Seahawks have agreed terms with free agent quarterback Matt Flynn, formerly of Green Bay. ESPN is reporting a $26m contract over three years, with $10m in guarantees. Others have suggested it’s a base-salary of $19m over the same time-frame. Either way, Seattle’s ambitions in the upcoming draft just became a lot clearer.
Don’t expect a quarterback to be drafted in the first two or three rounds next month. Flynn and Tarvaris Jackson will compete for a starting role in 2012, with the situation likely to be reviewed at the end of the season. As we discussed yesterday, the Seahawks could already be identifying quarterback targets in the 2013 draft class. Flynn’s contract will offer the flexibility to move on in a year’s time if he fails. If he succeeds, the Seahawks could consider reviewing those plans.
We’ll have to wait and see how Flynn’s contract breaks down – particularly the guaranteed portion – but this could essentially be an incentive laden one or two year investment to see if he has what it takes to succeed as a starter. To date he has just two NFL starts after joining the Packers as a 7th round pick out of LSU in 2008. I’ve supplied tape (see above) from his finest performance of the two – a week 17 victory over Detroit back in January.
He’ll have to compete with Jackson, but should he win that battle – he’ll likely have a one-year trial to win the faith of the coaching staff and front office. I suspect the Seahawks will structure the deal with a get-out clause so if Flynn fails, they are free to move on in 12 months time. However, fans hoping the competition will also include a rookie drafted in the first two rounds will almost certainly be left disappointed.
Seattle is making it clear they are going to improve other areas of the team next month with their ‘impact’ picks (rounds 1-3). That’s not to say another quarterback won’t be drafted – it’s worth keeping an eye on the prospects expected to leave the board between rounds 4-6. But it appears obvious they’ll turn their attention to the pass rush, front seven on defense and running game in the first few rounds.
This is a calculated move which allows the team to concentrate on other areas in the draft, open up a healthy competition at quarterback and take a better look at a guy with only two starts to his name. Perhaps more importantly, it allows the Seahawks a chance to bide their time. The 2013 class of quarterbacks will be a healthy group, and it includes a player very close to this organisations head honcho. The signing of Matt Flynn may well satisfy the masses until the opportunity to pursue that particular player becomes available.
If you haven’t already, it’s worth studying up on the top three pass rushers in this draft class – Courtney Upshaw, Melvin Ingram and Quinton Coples. And don’t rule out moves to set up a full-blown assault on the quarterback class in 2013.
I don’t like this move… Flynn’s a bust… would’ve preferred anyone else… But hopefully this will give JS/PC more freedom to draft their guy. And its not a Kolb deal… so I’ll take what I can get.
Other than the snafu in giving him a bonus in pounds sterling I am just more and more impressed with this FO. They are keeping the team together on reasonable contracts that do not appear to hamper the Hawks salary cap situation much. I am also impressed how they are not overreaching on any of the contracts or players. My friends I am thinking with PC & JS in charge we will be able to look forward to many great things for many many many years!! Oh yeah, just wanted to share that I had a glorious St Paddy’s day watch England pound the snot out of Ireland in rugby! Truly Glorious!!!
And Baldwin changed his number for him… Damn you Flynn haha
So, interesting. I have mixed feelings. I like the competition and hope Flynn beats out tjack and is a great starter. If not it is not a huge investment and like Rob mentions, focus on front seven and ‘playmakers’. I am happy with this FA so far and makes the draft a bit more exciting.
Matt Flynn is less mobile and has less arm strength than Tavaris Jackson, so it will be interesting to see how PC/Bevell/Cable structure the offense to accomodate the 2 QBs.
Flynn made a smart decision, since compared to the Dolphins, the Seahawks have a better team to give him a better chance to succeed.
@John — There’s really nothing not to like. Even if he can’t play at all we’re no worse than last year since TJax is likely still on the roster.
told Doug Baldwin that he wants to win and wants to wear #15, DB switching back to 89.
Guess that’s better than saying he wants to lose and wear #71
I love this move. I am in no way sold on Flynn, but he will get an extended tryout to see if he is the QBOTF and the cost is very reasonable. I like this much more than the prospects that will be there in the first three rounds of this years draft. He doesn’t cost us any valuable draft picks and his contract doesn’t stretch us thin at all. With this addition and the signing of Jason Jones, I am really happy. I had my doubts a couple days ago, but he FO really came through, in my view.
Rob
I told you a year ago the Seahawks were going to take Flynn this year. At that time you “PooPooed” me. Now maybe I will be vindicated Lol. This year I’m telling you Robert Turbin would be the best draft pick after a pass rusher in in the first round. I don’t care which pass rusher they take as long as it’s not Ingram. I think he’s highly overrated for the Pro game. I see him as a great college player who doesn’t messure up to the Pro game. Conversely, I see Turbin as a great running back from a University in “Kamchatka”, got hardly any attention for his skills and will only super achieve at the pro level. Heck, you even said you had no tape available on him and would have a rough time evaluating him.
I don’t know if JSPC will take him in rounds 2 or 3, but if they are looking for hidden gems he is certainly one that would be a great back-up and speller for Lynch. The way he runs reminds me of Marshawn with one extra shake and bob move.
I read on a Dolphin’s site (unconfirmed) that Seattle initially offered Flynn a 2/12 deal before jumping up to the 3/26 offer more recently. What that initial offer tells me is that at least in Seattle’s mind, they really do want a competition at QB this August, regardless of what reputation or salary might indicate.
I’m looking forward to it. Jackson and Flynn are yin to each other’s yang. Jackson is an athlete with a strong arm and mobility but lacks instincts and lacks trust in his receivers. Flynn is a below average athlete with a slightly below average arm that looks very comfortable running an offense and has very high intangibles. I guess we’ll find out who runs the offense better.
If Seattle can successfully improve the pass rush, I have a hard time seeing this team finish with another losing record in 2012. If Seattle wants Barkley, I hope they are willing to pay BIG to get him this time next year.
Congrats to the Seahawks and Matt Flynn!
I love this move! It takes big pressure off for drafting the qbotf in the upcoming draft. We now have the two best qb back ups in the game! Competition will bring out the best and its a win win for everybody! I think we should still draft a qb but not until R-6. Now everybody will be fine with waiting until the 2013 draft for the qbotf. Let’s build this Defense for be elite and get a solid RB to work in with Beast Mode. My Sunday just got a whole lot better. Congratulations to our FO. My faith is totally restored!
Matt Flynn reminds me a lot of Jon Kitna. Similar stature and pocket awareness but Flynn has a better arm (not saying much).
Matt Flynn doesn’t seem like the type of quarterback that can be type-casted. In the video he makes virtually every throw there is; quick hitters, screens, back shoulders, etc. I did notice quite a few balls get knocked down at or near the los. Could be an issue for him. Also is it just me or did the Lions blitz a lot in this game? Seems so… either way he acquitted himself well.
FWIW, Greg Cosell on Flynn:
“Flynn, at 6-foot-2, does not possess prototypical size. He has above-average arm strength, nothing more. There are power throws he will struggle to make, like deep digs at 18-22 yards, or deep comebacks. In fact, these are not throws you would ask Flynn to make. The bottom line: Flynn is not a top-level passer.
His attributes, based on film breakdown of his two NFL starts, derive from his talent as a timing and rhythm passer who’s decisive with his reads and throws, and has shown good accuracy in the short to intermediate areas. He’s primarily a plant-and-throw quarterback who makes good decisions, and delivers the ball on time. One thing I liked was his pocket movement. He showed the ability to slide and maintain his downfield focus. That’s a far more important trait than running out of the pocket.
Flynn, I believe, can be a successful NFL starter, but — and here’s where the Walsh archetype comes into play — he must be carefully manipulated by the schematics of the passing game, and helped by the play-calling. He’s not Aaron Rodgers simply because he put up better numbers in a late-season start. Rodgers is an exception, a supremely talented passer with rare traits. Few quarterbacks in NFL history have thrown with Rodgers’ combination of velocity and accuracy.
Flynn is a member of a much larger quarterback fraternity, players who need to be coached and managed to maximize the skills they possess. They must be defined and enhanced by the methodology and the concepts of the passing game. That’s the way it works in the NFL for 80-90 percent of its quarterbacks.”
http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/02/23/cosell-talks-matt-flynn-and-the-art-of-quarterbacking/
If PC/JS like this guy, I’m all for it. From the film I’ve seen of Mr. Flynn, he doesn’t look like he has spent much time in the weight room. More strength = more arm!
I havent seen the game film on Flynn against the Lions. Can anyone tell me if it was a whole game of Flynn and the Pack just being that good? Or did Detroit quit part way through?
I liked Flynn coming out of LSU. He is a tough competitive winner!
Way more adept at finding receivers than Tjack, and is not afraid to pull the trigger. He move’s well in the pocket and knows when to pull the ball down and take off. there will undoubtedly be a learning curve, as he is coming into a new system and is a first time starter. I believe he will excel under Bevell though.
Welcome Tiger and Go Hawks!!!!
Rob
Would another WR be a possibility in rounds 1-3? I know we gave Rice some money but Im not convinced with our current WR lineup. What kind of value is there for WR in Rounds 2 or 3
Any thoughts?
@ Seahawk Steve
Dude, what Rob said was that the Seahawks wasn’t particularly enamored with Matt Flynn. They certainly weren’t shelling out starters money and based on the fact that the Seahawks didn’t enter the Flynn market until it cooled down a lot (from Kolb level to current level), Rob is correct. If the price was right, would they give him an extended tryout? Sure. It fits well with the competition mantra where this FO leaves no stone unturned. It he develops into a Pro Bowler 2 years down the line, we can extend him. But is Matt Flynn the definitive QBOTF? Based on his contract, no. If anything, the contract tells me that the Seahawks can cut him loose without any major cap ramafications when they think Flynn is not the QBOTF. In short, it’s a calculated risk just like the Charlie Whitehurst trade.
Back when Charlie was first traded, a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon and said that Charlie is the QBOTF. The answer is NO. Charlie was brought in to provide competition and to see if you can become the QBOTF. If he pans out, extend him. If not, just let him play out his contract and move on without any cap ramifications. Clearly he hasn’t. Move on, Like the Flynn move, it’s a calculated risk.
Overall, none of this changes the plan for a QBOTF. If anything, they’ve bought themselves more time to find the right QB.
Barry – the Detroit tape is at the top of the article for your viewing pleasure.
Lenny253 – I would say it’s highly unlikely, borderline guaranteed not to happen. The areas we need to focus on: Pass rushing DE with a high motor, linebacker, running back. Of course, there are BPA value situations that could change that, but taking a wide receiver would be a major upset.
Rob,
You should do an analysis of MLBs and OLBs that will be available in the 2nd-4th round range. I know you’re high on Brown but i just don’t see it. While he has the speed, he rarely wraps up and just sucks at tackling. Lavonte David? Sean Spence? Irvin? Mychal Kendricks?
You know, I wasn’t really into getting Flynn at all but now that we did I’m kind of excited about it. He’s making about the same as TJax so thats saying the position is definitely up for grabs, not that we didn’t know that. I’m pretty sure since TJax knows the offense better he will win the contest, at least for a few games till Flynn catches up. I know Flynn isn’t the greatest athlete but from what I recall he is above average, he’s at least average and being behind the horrid GBay line, must have learned a few things about pocket presence. And even if TJax does win the competition we should get to see what Flynns got for a few games when TJax is hurt. I predict we will get to see a little bit of Portis this year as well. I don’t think we can rule out a QB in the 2nd or 3rd quite yet though, it’s all about competition and if Carrol sees someone he thinks might be able to cut it he will get them. I like Darron Thomas out of Oregon the most out of the possible QBs that we can get. I said out of Oregon cause I’m not %100 sure the name but I think I’m right. He’ll be a 6th round pick.
Rob & Kip,
Great analysis over the past couple of weeks. I have a good idea of which QBs you two prefer and when you think they’ll be available. However, could you correlate your views with your knowledge of the FO and take an educated guess at Seattle’s QB board?
Also, how do you think the Flynn signing will affect the roster once the team cuts down to fifty three? If the FO and PC are serious about competition at the QB position, there’s a possibility – regardless of people’s opinion – TJ holds on as the starter to begin the season. Do you see the team forcing a decision between contining Portis’ development and developing another late rounder or UDFA by keeping both Flynn and TJ?
Lastly, do you still see the mystery trade as a possibility once Manning decides on a home?
Marcus
Rob on the ball as usual I see with a great article already ready to go! Good stuff!
Personally, I’m very pleased with this signing. True to his word, Schenider didn’t panic at all. In fact it was an extremely calculated move in which they bid their time and let the Dolphins really set the market for him. Once it became clear the Phins were not going to panic themselves and throw gobs of money at Flynn the Hawks made their move. Compared to how the Kolb trade/deal went down, Flynn came at bargain basement prices. A Month ago who would have thought this? I sure didn’t which is why I kind of discounted us pursuing Flynn since I figured the price would be to steep and the Hawks front-office unwilling to pay it.
I can’t wait to see the contract details but I would assume that most (probably all) the guaranteed money will be paid out over 2012-2013. Cap wise this signing should have few implications for the future as we have only a few major FA’s next year and if the Hawks want them back there will be plenty of money available to re-sign them. 2014 is when when some guys like Kam and Baldwin will be looking to get paid but Flynn’s contract should have minimal impact unless he turns out to be our QBOTF (in which case he will get paid handsomely as well). Of course if he does deserve a new contract it will mean he earned it and I doubt anyone will care if he starts getting paid the big bucks then!
And like Rob has alluded too, if Flynn doesn’t quite work out there is always the 2013 draft which is shaping up to be pretty deep and talented. Barkley, Tyler Wilson, Geno Smith, EJ Manuel, Jeff Tuel, and Landry Jones (everyone’s favorite prospect hah!) as seniors and Logan Thomas, Tyler Bray, Aaron Murray, Keith Price, and Tahj Boyd as possible juniors to come out.
All in all I consider this signing as low-risk high-reward. If it pays off we finally have our QBOTF, if he plays mediocre we have a capable backup, and if he busts we will be setup well to draft a QB in 2013!
GO SEAHAWKS!
Compared to past hyped-up backups, Flynn’s contract is incredibly reasonable. If the Cards had managed to get Kolb on a similar deal, all this angst about his future with the team after just one season would be much less intense.
I’ve never been big on Flynn’s abilities, I feel he’s been a bit puffed up by the media and the increased scrutiny he’s seen the last few months. However I am very pleased with how this team has positioned themselves for not just this draft, but 2013’s as well. It’s so refreshing to follow a franchise that really appears to “get it” when it comes to building a roster. I honestly couldn’t be anymore excited for JS/PC to draft a pair of high-intensity defensive players next month, the much mocked Upshaw/Kendricks pairing makes me absolutely giddy.
As far as the rest of free-agency is concerned, I’d like to see another depth signing or two, maybe on the D-Line and LB. But other than that, I feel the roster is in pretty good shape. Many are clamoring for Winston or an addition to the O-Line, but I think Giacomini and Jarriel King have the chance to surprise many next season. It’s not terribly uncommon for late round draft picks or UDFA to become viable starters/solid backups in the NFL (think Saints interior line last few seasons) and I rank Cable as one of the top coaches at the position in the league.
Jim – If more strength equates to a better arm, Tebow would be the best passer in the NFL, ’nuff said.
oh. And I want Coples, he’s got what is needed to succeed and I believe without all the pressures in UNC he will be great. There isn’t only the problems of the program, which he had to watch his friends go through hell, but he also had school work which i think is always underestimated. I think he had his own transgressions or at least borderline stuff that he though might bite him in the ass if found out. A lot of stuff to deal with and when he’s told to go out there and just kick ass, he will, just football, no other worries.
Love this move in almost every way. I love our front office! What a strange sensation. After so many years of mismanaging our sports teams we finally know what a competent front office with a dedicated and obscenely rich owner are capable of. I know it’s still early but i couldn’t be more impressed with the results so far. What a sweet ride this is gonna be!
@ Alex
Never said Flynn was QBOTF only he would be the smartest move by the FO. Flynn has a very good “Risk/Reward ratio. He may prove to be the QBOTF, but I doubt it. According to PC we don’t need a top 5 quarterback in this system, we just needed a good game manager who can make all the throws and reads. I am happy we got that. I think Flynn will fit nicely in the Hawks system and like Rogers says become a top 15 QB. Being smart outweighs being talented.
Don’t want to be too redundant but good move by FO, great patience and value. Look forward the most to seeing Flynn spread the ball around more than TJack, be more aggressive, and get more out of the weapons on offense. From the little I’ve seen of Flynn, his upside seems like a more aggressive Hasselbeck. His downside is obvious that he only has two starts at the most important and difficult position to predict without adequate sample size. With Tavaris you get what you’ve seen with probably a bit of room to improve in offseason with competition and more coaching.
Flynn should beat out TJack but either way the drop off due to injury or a slump will be much better than the last two years. Now to improve that pass rush and rb drop off (after Lynch) and this team will look a lot better for a post season run.
If I’m the other teams in the division I’d be sitting up a little straighter in film sessions, etc. Minus the free agency/draft moves the young team should only get better as they go, combined with smart, calculated FO moves, this team is becoming a contender (still getting there but I think I can see it happening).
mjkleko; From the film provided here, as well as the opinions of many, Flynn has an average arm at best. Weight training can improve his overall arm strength so that he can put less float and arc on those long balls and zip the ball in the shorter routes. My comment was based on the above and the lack of appearance of weight training in Flynn’s physical mackup (I’d guess 15″ biceps) – even though he’s been a professional for awhile.
Rob/Kip: Now that Flynn is in the fold, which of the 2-nd tier QB’s are closest to Flynn in capabilities? Maybe…Cousins?
I was indifferent on the Flynn pursuit….if we got him good, if not, it’s ok……But this FO is just awesome. 3-$26 million….cap friendly….not tied to Flynn if he bombs….buys the FO time to get ‘their guy’. This move allows this team to possibly win now while still building for the future. I think this offseason might possibly be better than last offseason…..and it’s not even done yet…..and the Hawks still have some $$$ to play with. I wonder if there’s still enough funds to go after Wembly or Lofton? Great job FO! Go hawks!!!
If we could get Wimbley at a cap friendly price that would be great and put us in great position in the draft. I wish we could bring back Hawthorne I would feel better about the D, his no All-Pro but very underrated in for the functionality of the D and very durable.
I’m spearheading the ‘Floyd for Flynn’ campaign.
That’s presuming Richardson doesn’t make it to 12 and Blackmon is already off the board. Rang seems to agree: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock
I’m not sure I want Wimbley. I heard he’s overrated and got most of his sacks in one game last year against 3rd string competition. Lofton I would take, but if the FO can find guys they like in the draft, I say leave the rest of FA alone and dominate the draft!
I’ve written a piece for Field Gulls / SB Nation on the subject of Seattle’s draft post-Flynn signing. You can view it here:
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/3/18/2883306/matt-flynn-the-seahawks-and-the-2012-nfl-draft
Wimbley had 1 Jets, 1 Broncos, 4 @Chargers, 1 Bears for 7 total sacks. Also, tackles were 3.93 per game.
K.J. Wright had 1 Eagles, 1 Rams for 2 total sacks, tackles were 4.06 per game.
Leroy Hill had 1 Cardinals, 1 Rams, 1 Eagles, 1 49ers for 4 total sacks, tackles were 5.56 per game.
David Hawthorne had 1 Browns, 1 Cardinals for 2 total sacks, tackles were 7.18 per game.
Cliff – I’ve started to run through the LB prospects in that region. We’ve covered Mychal Kendricks so far (use the archive section in the menu bar to find the piece) and next up is Ronnell Lewis.
Marcus – If I had to guess, and I want to stress this is a guess – I’d go Luck, Griffin III, Cousins, Osweiler, Wilson as a top five. It really depends on who they draft to determine the future of the QB’s. If Portis makes steps forward, it wouldn’t surprise me if they cut Jackson is he loses the battle. But realy it depends on who they draft and whether Portis is as good as a lot of people hope. I suspect the Manning trade that was touted will not be happening given the Flynn deal. We may never know which team it was involved.
Misfit74 – That campaign would be a fruitless one, unfortunately.
Wow, just like I stated in my post yesterday, Seattle is looking for a stop gap solution. It may not be through the draft but at least they are bringing in someone that has been around a winning organization and has some abilities to compete and overtake Tjack now. Of note, also interesting about 3 months ago,possibly even longer I sent Rob an email about this very subject (Matt Flynn and the Seahawks) Although I still prefer Barkley, I am happier with Flynn at this point then TJack and a rookie. Seattle will also be looking at QB’s in the 4th or 5th round. Now, we can address the pass rush either by the LB position or DE.
Clayton.
Nice read on FG, Rob.
Flynn’s description as a rythm passer makes me think he could play well with BMW. Interested how he’ll work with Baldwin too. WR chemistry will be a big part of the competition at QB.
Rob and Kip,
I think I saw that Steven Haushka is a free agent, is that true? I am sure we are not in a major hurry to sign a kicker but it seems like it is something that should just get done. I would also love to see us re-sign Hawthorne or possibly get a guy like Lofton. If they do, does that open up further possibility of trading back in the first and taking a guy like Zach Brown? Do you think that Stephen Hill (I think that is the right guy, tall fast kid from Georgia Tech?) will be available in the 2nd and if so would the Hawks go after him? I like our receivers alot but I do think that there is certainly room for upgrade, do you think the Hawks feel the same way?
I love this move, because Matt is a smart QB. Dude can read defenses, and just spent 3 years studying with Aaron on defenses. This is why I’ve always liked K Moore, because he is smart. The reason TJacks fantastic physical abilities never worked out for him was because he really is the sharpest knife in the drawer. He couldn’t really go through his progressions, so if his first read was covered, bad things happened. Flynn will be very Matty-ish, and with the great running game, we could be really solid. It definately takes the urgency out of the QB situation and puts us in a much better place.
I am effing all in, babeh! All In!
I love the risk! Love the perfect combination of risk and reward!
Flynn may suck complete ass. So what! We have one more year now to grow the team, and prepare for 2013 “All In on QB”.
That said… What if… oh, man.
I get to love the Seahawk QB called Matt again. A strategist, a gambler, an effing Point Guard QB!
Booyah!
The last cap numbers I saw were something like the hawks having about 25 million left to spend. Sense then Jones (5) Flynn (guessing 6 this year) and Robinson (2.5) have been signed. This leaves us with around 12 million left to spend. The 25 may have been before the release of Gallery (6) but I cant remember (This would give us about 12 or 18 million left in cap). Does anyone have a more accurate tally than me. With these numbers I am hoping we can get Lofton or Wimbley. At that point we should just be finished with FA.
Low risk huge reward move for the Seahawks. Trade down if need be and get picks for next year in case Flynn isn’t the answer.
As for addressing the WR position, I think they need to. Baldwin has a ton of upside and Tate has shown flashes but little consistency. I dont think it’s a pressing issue, but Rice is always hurt and Williams can’t be trusted. I’d like to see them draft a big target in the first few rounds.
What the Flynn signing tells me (among many other things) is that whatever deal Seattle must have had in place for the mystery quarterback must have fallen through. Its a bit frustrating because even Rob and I don’t know the exact identity of the player, and we may never know.
The thing that jumps out at you about Flynn is his uncanny accuracy. He makes quick decisions, seems to always find the receiver about to come open, gets rid of the ball in a hurry, and usually hits the receiver in stride right between the numbers. To pass for 480 yards and six touchdowns against the Lions, a playoff team going all-out to win home field advantage, is pretty amazing, and showed a rare level of agressiveness for a back-up qb. He is ready to start right now, and with a contract favorable to the Seahawks. Is he the franchise…who knows? But a very smart pickup that changes the dynamic of the team and the upcoming draft. Congrats to John & Pete. Welcome to Seattle, Matt Flynn!
Rob
If we can get Upshaw AT 12 that will solve two issues at LB and a DE. With the Bills signing Williams Im certain Upshaw will be there for us to pick. On 1st and 2nd down play Upshaw at OLb and Red at DE. On 3rd down and passing situations move Red inside or Jones and Play Upshaw at DE. We signed Jason Jones and Branch last year which can provide depth to keep our DL fresh. Our defense would be set. We could even sign a FA LB to add some depth. Maybe bring back one of our LB FA. In Round 2 and 3 add a WR and then the best RB available(Polkor Turbin?) This seems like the best scenario IMO. There could be great value at WR if Alshon Jefferies and or Michael Floyd falls. Stephen Hills looks intriguing also. I just dont feel comfortable with Baldwin being our #1 WR again.
If richardson and the elite 3 pass rushers we’re hoping for aren’t available, could you see us possibly getting kuechly in round 1? Thank goodness for the flynn signing because it will at least give us the chance to address more pressing needs in rounds 1-3, pass-rush, LB, RB and add some depth in the later rounds.
Rob,
I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on potential LB targets. I, for one, think 2 LBs should be drafted, but I’m concerned that won’t be the case if one is selected in Round 2. To me, the LB class is one of the deeper positions in the draft, and it may be better to trade down and pick up a later pick to replace the Lynch pick.
As I am a Big XII guy, I am especially interested i your thoughts about Lavonte David, Ronnell Lewis, Keenan Robinson, and Emmanuel Acho. I think they all fit the Seahawks pretty well.
Vandehawk,
Haushka, the Seahawks kicker, has been tendered at $1.26M by Seahawks as a restricted free agent. They have the right to match any offers he receives.
Jon,
You also need to subtract 4.5M from the remaining cap figure for the 1 year deal with Jones.
Belgaron,
Thanks for your response. I put Jones at 5 (My post was a little confusing with all the different names and numbers). He was just 4.5 then? And I did a little more looking and believe that number was before releasing Gallery but may still be wrong on this. That would in fact leave us around 18 Million in Cap space.
Kip: I think you described the situation perfectly in the second paragraph of your post above.
The Seahawks enhanced the talent pool at the QB position, but by no means have they solved all their problems. I’m happy to have Flynn coming in to compete with Jackson, and hope he beats him out with ease and gives the Hawks better QB play than they got last season. At the same time I really wouldn’t feel comfortable betting anything of value on it. Jackson has been through the gauntlet and done a lot of learning and cutting down on bad habits through experience. Flynn has not. There will be ugly games, ugly throws, and bad decisions strewn into whatever positive things he does for the Seahawks, at least early on until he gains that experience.
I’m optimistic about this deal, but will reserve my celebration of Matt Flynn until I see some results. He has much to prove.
This is a sad, sad day. Everybody seems to love this move. So I, once again, will be the only one not drinking the Jonestown Punch. Rob I want to know what you honestly think about this decision. It doesn’t improve our team nor make us more competitive in the division. We still have the worst qb play in the nfc west and now we’re giving the guy 8 million a year? So what is your honest take? I hate this move. Flynn will perform no better than jackson and we all will see first hand why miami nor anyone else showed any vested interest in this clown. We already had time for 2013. I think that the horror show that will be flynn’s performance next year will only hurt carroll and schneider in the long run. I’m sorry, but this is nothing good, and I’m already dreading what our season will become. The only positive is that flynn should get us even closer to Barkley than I ever could’ve hoped. I want to know if you truly approve of this move, Rob. Kip, you too. Am I the only one who sees giving another backup- one less proven- even MORE money than we gave jackson? The only thing that could make this whole offseason more hideously hilarious is if Upshaw and Richardson are off the board at #12 and we have to pick from Coples and Ingram. Then I’ll REALLY start laughing
All you all are debbie downer’s we have Flynn and it’s going to be great, I’m drinking the Kool-Aid..Specially if Miami gets Smith, and the niners are left out in the cold. Geaux Dolphins
Wimbley’s 4 sacks versus San Diego can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxEFFRhEnPM
They were all against Brandyn Dombrowski #62 who was playing left tackle backing up the injured Marcus McNeill. In all four, Wimbley used the same move where chooses an angle to speed quickly around the outside but each time he shifts into a higher gear and ducks quickly getting around Dombrowski.
Other highlights can be seen at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWBnuWYfYW8
He has a great technique of really extending his arms which gets him into contact with the QB quickly and results in fumbles which probably cut into his sack total. There are a few examples where he had to cut back inside and still got to the QB. I’d say overall he does appear to have a great skillset for LEO but his total production last year does not warrant the contract he had with the Raiders. However DE’s and sack specialists are at a premium so I imagine he will have a handful of teams interested when he lowers his asking price just a bit.
Sorry but I have been against signing flynn for any price since jump street, so to see it happening cold, blue serious in black and white and knowing there’s nothing to be done, it’s very disappointing. I wasn’t luke warm to it, I was vehemently against it. So I am none too happy at the moment, but we’re stuck with him. I suppose it’s time to go stealth mode and back underground for a while
I’m not a huge fan, but to say “the team is not any better” is to say that Matt Flynn is worse than or equal to Charlie Whitehurst. I do not believe Charlie could have pulled off the games Flynn had, and based on that alone I disagree with you, Jarhead.
and he looks like Matt Damon with a beard.
1- DE Q. Coples
2- LB M. Kendricks
3- RB R. Turbin
4- TE L. Green or LB V. Burfict
6- QB R. Wilson
7- FS
7- CB
Coples’ lack of motivation allows us to take an elite physical prospect and play him as a situational pass rusher his rookie season. He will eventually replace the aging Clemons and wreak havoc in the future. I’d also like to see us pick up a LB in fee agency. Ideally someone like Kamerion Wimbley who just got released by Oakland. 7 sacks last year, young, good rush defense, and a Tom Cable connection might be enough to add NFLTradeRumor’s #3 free agent available. Plus we have more money we can spend.
RJ – seems like Brandon Hardin could fill that 7 – FS slot. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/17842324/oregon-state-db-brandon-hardin-wows-scouts-at-pro-day
Jarhead and others against the signing:
Obviously it would be better to get Luck, Griffin, Manning, etc. But those were never real options, and most likely the Dolphins will have a bad season next year and pick Matt Barkley before us in the 2013 draft. Given the position we are drafting we have to gamble on someone.
Compare the Flynn deal to Kevin Kolb:
* The Cardinals lost a 2009 pro bowl corner and a 2nd round pick just for the right to sign Kolb.
* The Packers will probably get a 4th round compensatory pick for Flynn.
* Kolb got 21 million guaranteed and 6/63 (10.5/year.)
* Flynn is getting 10 million guaranteed and 3/19-26 (6.3-8.7/year)
Flynn might only be a sub-par starting QB, but he is being paid sub-par starting QB money. The Seahawks didn’t have to give up critical assets to sign him. And there’s nothing preventing us from drafting a quarterback of the future next year to develop behind Flynn.
I am happy that PC finally has shown us a PLAN for upgrading the QB. Once again he has found value in the 7 th round – this time with a free agent.
I laugh at all the negativity and baloney about a weak arm – Lets just give him a try and find out what he can do! If he doesn’t perform we will cut him. What’s so hard about that?
As for needs, yes we need the DE and LB and RB and OL and WR and TE. So we got lots of needs. But if we don’t pick up a speedy receiver or a tight end that can hold onto the ball, the team will be disappointing next year.
I agree with Jarhead.
Make that two Hawk fans who are not drinking the Kool -aid. I am very surprised and dissappointed in the Flynn signing, and here we go again with another charlie Whitehurst, easy get rich quick solution to the QB.
I thought the hawks were smarter than that, just putting on a face and giving Flynn a low ball deal to appease the brain washed Flynn fans. Surely the hawks realize that he paded his stats against a Detroit team that really wasn’t playing hard in week 17, a game that didn’t matter.
Now one of my worse fears have come true, and now I will watch the THIRD average back up QB take the team to another 7-9 or 8-8 season. Not good enough to compete in the playoffs, not bad enough to draft a QBOTF. Well management just set this franchise back another year, and its going to be a long two years before we see the 2013 drafted QB on the field.
Mark this day, and then watch in horror next Fall when Cousins, or Osweiler, and /or Tennehill pulls a Dalton and looks really really good.
“I’d bet my house that there is zero interest in Flynn or Manning.”
I’m very glad you didn’t bet your house, otherwise you’d have no place to write the web’s best draft blog from.
Glad you’re eating a bit of crow on this one. Don’t take it as a knock, even the ESPN and NFL Network guys aren’t 100%.
I would be curious to read a post as to where you think you misjudged the Seahawks FO on this one, or what about the deal changes the assumptions you had?
Donald, what option do you think is better than Flynn? Starting Josh Portis and “Busting for Barkley?”
Brian,
The best option would be drafting Cousins, or Osweiler or Tennehill, whoever they think is better in round two. But taking Flynn means they probably wont draft any QB until round 6 or 7, and the good ones will be long gone by then.
I would have accepted playing Whithurst ot Tjack entirely, knowing the pain and suffereing would give the hawks a better chance to draft Barkley.
But signing the Flynn flam man to play QB, that just means another average year with absolutely no shot at a franchise QB in 2013. (Yawn)
Donald and other skeptics,
With all due respect, how certain are you (percentage wise) that Kirk Cousins, Brock Osweiler, or Ryan Tannehill will EVER, in their entire careers, throw a 480 yard, 6 touchdown game?
50%, 40%, 30%???
Great article here:
http://footballoutsiders.com/quick-reads/2012/week-17-quick-reads
Pretty much every quarterback in the past 20 years who even had ONE game that good in the NFL was eventually a pro bowl quarterback…. The odds are a lot worse on second round draft picks.
After watching game tape, I think Wimbley would be better suited as a 4-3 DE not OLB so insert Erin Henderson where I said Wimbley. Some mocks have Russell Wilson going earlier but I don’t think it’ll happen. We’ll see.
Misfit- Couldn’t agree more, whoever it is just has to be talented enough if (God forbid) Earl Thomas goes down. Saying that I’m very excited for next season is an understatement, saying I’m very excited for the draft is a gross understatement. I have a countdown on my wall right next to my countdown for my 20th birthday. Hate to say I’m more excited for the draft haha
Misfit- Another benefit of him in that 7 spot would be that we wouldn’t need another SS to replace bigby. By the sounds of it he has the abilities necessary of both safety positions (speed, strength, athleticism etc)
Patrick,
I hope you are right. I hope he is a probowl Arron Rogers 2.0 and leads the team to at least a playoff victory. Most back ups fail, or are average at best. We will see.
Patrick G,
I never stuck my neck out like Rob did, but there were some people close to the situation who said that Seattle wasn’t very keen on Flynn, presumably because everyone expected Flynn to get megabucks despite having only two career starts. Even Pete Carroll referred to Flynn as “that backup.”
When it turned out that the market for Flynn was MUCH softer than everyone expected, things changed, and Seattle began to view Flynn as an opportunity, similar to how they saw Rice and Miller as opportunity signings last year.
I try to avoid cheesy guarantees, but I’m still a little shocked that Flynn signed here. I honestly figured that Flynn’s meeting here last Friday was more of a political/PR move than a show of legitimate interest.
Bridge QBs don’t get much better or much cheaper than Matt Flynn. The more I think about it, the more I like the signing. Seattle played their hand perfectly on this one.
Value, as simple as that. PCJS move all the way.
QBOTF-question lingers on though. 2013 will be intense.
Terrific job, Pete! We needed a QB and you got one. Time will tell how good he turns out, but you got the job done.
Draft
Hawks should draft David Decastro, the next Steve Hutchinson. We need to improve our 29th rated pass protection and protect our inexperienced QB, and get someone who can open some holes for Lynch – there were none last year!
Congratulations to the Seahawks front office. They have shown their fans that they are willing to use free agency to fill obvious weaknesses on the team. I’m all in.
I think you used the right term there Kip – bridge quarterback. Assuming Flynn is at least serviceable and we go all in for a QB in next years draft, then Flynn starts this year and all or part of next year while our QOTF has some clipboard time before starting. I’m excited for the upcoming draft because it seems PC/JS have a knack for identifying quality defensive players (Kam, ET, Sherman, KJ) in the draft so it’s exciting to think of the talent we’ll add using our #1 and probably the 2 or 3 also. So, while our offense doesn’t get me all hot & bothered our defense next year will!
Donald,
Or to any of the skeptics out there, I don’t know if “watch in horror,” is quite the emotion I’ll have when Cousins, Tannehill, or Osweiler,” pulls an Andy Dalton and turns the ball over 16 times with ints. and fumbles to his not world beating 20 tds. All the while only beating teams who didn’t get into the playoffs and losing to teams that did….I think the more approriate emotion is goin gto be “meh,”
Sorry to anyone who likes Dalton and is/was bummed that the Seahawks didn’t pick him. But I’ll consider him good, when he both posts better stats and can consistently beat better opponents.
Flynn may or may not be the QBOTF, but he sure offers an interesting contrast to TJack. While he doesn’t have the physical talents that TJack has, I’m impressed with how decisive he is — he really seemed to have a grasp of the Packers offense. I didn’t see one instance where he held onto the ball longer than he should have. Early in the Lions game, he appeared to stare down his primary receivers, but once he was pick-sixed, he did a much better job of looking off. While he doesn’t appear to have a really strong arm, I was really impressed with his accuracy on the long balls he threw. In short, he plays with confidence and he plays beyond his years — he doesn’t have the deer-in-the-headlights look that many inexperienced QBs have.
While it would be great to have another strong-armed Aaron Rodgers at QB for the Seahawks, I think with Flynn we can be very successful running a ball-control type of offense. We already have a good defense and perhaps the best way to improve our defensive play is for the offense to get some more first downs each game. If the other team doesn’t have the ball, our defense is going to be really impressive! So, pound the ball — hit the short passes — avoid the 3rd and long situations. Cut the other teams’ possesssions by running the clock.
On defense, improve the pass rush. But, I’m not sure that it has to come from the edge. If we draft someone like Mychal Kendricks, who can play inside and out, we might be able to get lots more pressure up the middle than we did from Heater. Anyway, I’m back to Ingram/Upshaw/Coples at #12 (unless we can trade back for more picks), then Kendricks/Martin (he will probably be gone) in the second. I don’t think we ought to even think QB until maybe the 6th or 7th round.
I think this signing is to reiterate the above posters a great chance to bridge, we already know what Tjax brings (good and bad) and the Seahawks don’t change any direction from now until 2013.
I would like to see some player development, but our best choices early-ish right now are the safe but slightly vanilla Cousins, and the perhaps more potential but vastly underdeveloped Osweiler, both of which may truly not be better then they are now and then it’s anyones’ guess about late round QB’s.
I don’t know if Osweielr/Cousins would be better then this situation, and really “ALways compete, and Win Forever,” may be pretty corny slogans, but first and foremost I am a Hawks fan, all this crap about playing Whitehurst to get a better pick is just stupid, I watch to see them win, or at least go down fighting not for imaginary scenarios where we play Developmental projects only to lose….no thanks.
Rob,
What are your thoughts on Brian Quick, Reuben Randle and Marvin Jones?
I like the risk of signing Flynn because there is relatively none. They didn’t lose any picks or players.
With that said, the Hawks need to build a better receiving corp to help Flynn out. Sidney Rice has only play 1 full season in his career. Granted it was a great season, but I don’t think we can count on him playing a full 16 game season.
Golden Tate I think is still up in the air how he will be. Mike Williams, was 2010 or 2011 the real Mike Williams? History says that 2010 was an anomoly. Kris Durham too early to make a determination.
Right now I would trust Rice, Baldwin and Tate for our receiver corp. But we are carrying almost a dozen receivers on our roster! Where were the rest of them last year? PC needs to sort it out next fall.
There are people like Williams that have a great back story, and have had a good year or two. They have to step up it up or move on. Obamanu is the same, he needs to step it up. With Flynn on board we should have quicker decisions and accurate throws. The receivers should benefit.
This deal is great. It is the same as having CJB on the sidelines money wise, and it allows us to get a guy in there that could make this coming season very competitive and exciting.
As Jim Carrey said in Dumb and Dumber “I like it a lot”.
The reason I think this drops Barkley from the picture is that, what are the chances we’ll have fully evaluated Flynn after only one year? Even if his contract is not prohibitive, will we really toss him overboard after only one bad year?
Maybe, if Barkley lands in our lap in the draft, we’d make the move. But I don’t see us being so desperate now as to move up at all to get him. And I still don’t see him dropping to where we’ll probably be picking (15-20, my guess). Even if he doesn’t go #1, I don’t see him falling to #20.
John comes to the conclusion that Flynn is a bust and based on what? Nothing.
Can we please stop with the whole David DeCastro is the next Hutch talk, they are two totally different players.
Hutch was a mauler who had defensive linemen not wanting to shake his hand after the game because he tore them a new one every play.
DeCastro is big and strong, but is a technician, he is more an Eric Steinbach than Steve Hutchinson. Not that he can’t be good, but he isn’t the big, physical road grader, like Hutch.
Hmm guess King isn’t the Seahawks starting guard as he just got cut. The O line is becoming more and more of a question mark.
ESPN reports Michaek Bush to visit hawks. Looks like we wont be drafting a RB early.
@John s
Tate was the only receiver statistically to have zero drops last year (catchable passes). The catchable throws maybe a tad subjective, but the spark Tate showed at the end of the season and this stat is a good improvement. I am more nervous About Williams than Tate. I would love to see a speedy wr added to the roster that can blow the top of opposing defense.
So Peyton is gonna be a Bronco and Tebow’s gonna be out there. Now we got Flynn, is there any chance we try for Tebow or Gabbert if Jacksonville gets Tebow?
Anybody have any idea how much cap space we have left? I don’t need anything exact, just wondering what we have to work with after these signings
Anybody have any idea how much cap space we have left? I don’t need anything exact, just wondering what we have to work with after these signings and releases of some guys..
I think it is totally fair to not be sold on Flynn or even believe that he is not very good, but I do not see how anyone can be upset about signing him at these numbers. This contract will not be financially crippling at all. It is a fantastic deal for the team. You have to take some cahnces in the league, and this chance on Flynn is logical in every way. Lets see what he can do!
Oh, and I will submit myself as a charter member of the “Flynn to Floyd” bandwagon now. I can see it now, and it looks glorious
If Flynn doesn’t pan out, we cut him and go all in 2013. I, like Jarhead, am not a big fan of Flynn, but for this deal, why not?
If we sign Michael Bush or trade for Stewart…
..it doesn’t necessarily mean we won’t draft a RB.
It could mean we are about to say goodbye to Leon Washington and then draft RB3/KR in rd 3 or 4.
Or we could hand over the return duties to Baldwin if RB3 isn’t suited for them.
Lenny253 – A visit for Michael Bush just goes to show how much of a priority RB is. If they don’t add a running back in free agency, it will remain a priority in the draft. We’ve always argued it’s DE-LB-RB as the main targets.
Okay for anyone making the comparison of ‘anyone who had THIS good of a statistical game has become a pro bowler, that is just stupid. Just as stupid as they say people are who would prefer a higher draft pick to a mediocre 7-9 season. GB put on a dog and pony show to get flynn a contract and it worked. I haven’t heard one word about an out in the contract like kolb’s, so that’s just speculation. As for flynn, he’s not going to do any better than jackson, that’s my take. This move was wasteful, because he will make more than any other free agent we’ve signed. INCLUDING Red and Lynch- does anyone think flynn will be bigger contributors that those two. All the honks will support this, I personally didn’t want anyone, least of all flynn. I was fine with jackson, portis and some 4th or 6th rounder. Now all we’ll hear or talk about anywhere is flynn. I want this franchise to make it’s own stars. Not grab the nfc north’s retread back ups. Barkley or nothing for me now. Hey, people who say ‘competition is okay, not a huge contract’ that’s fine- they’re indifferent. But people talking about rob eating crow, or this is going to get us in to the playoffs? get a grip. Rob was right- there was ZERO interest in flynn from ANYONE- including miami who didn’t mtch our contract when it’s low. We got the guy no one else wanted. Rob was right about flynn all along, we just got stuck when time ran out
After watching Flynn’s tape at Detroit you can definitely see the lack of zip on his passes. He also made a few questionable throws. At the same time he trusted his very good receivers to make plays which they did. I think our receivers can go get the ball too and I think that Mike Williams will be used a lot more this year with Flynn starting (someone else mentioned this too and I think it’s right on). All of this being said I think that the need for the speed WR to take the top off of the D is less important.
To Rob’s credit, it looks as if his most recent mock (and the last 4 before that) should be right on the nose with Upshaw as the guy and a LB in the second round. Mykael Kendricks sounds like the right fit at LB too with that blazing speed. I love the Heater and would like to see him back but either way we need some depth at LB. I hope that they do end up with Cousins or Osweiler to compete with Flynn and Jackson though, preferably Osweiler as he seems to have more upside than Cousins. Schneider has said in the past that he would like to draft a QB every year and I hope that this year is no different.
I couldn’t be more happy with how the FO is handling business though. Take care of our own core guys first letting everyone else know that they will be rewarded for performance. Avoid the early FA market to ensure that you don’t overpay, then add guys who you think can contribute on show me type deals. I think that this is how we will see things progress moving forward and hopefully it builds a contender for years to come.
GO HAWKS!
@Jarhead
Do you really think it would have been smart to go into the season with Portis and a 4-6 round QB backing up Jackson? If Jackson goes down your season goes with it. Even if Flynn is not the guy for the future you still need someone who can come in and play if your QB goes down. If your stance is Barkley or bust then we are going to have to be really bad next year because Barkley will command the #1 overall pick.
So what are our options for the backup if we don’t sign Flynn? Maybe we pay a little bit less for Jason Campbell (not sure if he signed anywhere) or someone else with no upside who will probably command at least 2.5M per year. We save 4 mil in cap space, what does that do for us? We still have plenty of cap space even with the Flynn signing. At least with Flynn there is some potential upside and at that price we are not tied to the guy forever. If he can’t beat out Tarvaris or turns out to be the same thing then we move on. What is the problem with that?
Hasn’t Flynn been GB’s #2 for the last 3 years? Would they have kept him in the fold for 3 years if he was crappy?
I’m amazed at how many folks in here are writing him off as crappy so far, when all he has done in his 2 opportunities was to tear it up.
Can he be any worse than Clippy? I doubt it. As much as many people in here threw daggers at TJack, one would think they would be happy for someone to compete for the job.
I for one am thrilled to get this guy. Will the same “crow throwers” eat their own crow if the guy pans out? It’s not like we gave the guy $95 million for 5 years…
He is inexpensive, has to prove himself for a big payday, and can be dumped for non-performance for not much of a loss. I think it’s a pretty savvy move myself…
Jarhead,
To be clear I agree with you about creating our own talent. But what’s the point of “developing” our own talent with Osweiler, etc. when next year you go ahead and pick Barkeley, Wilson, etc?
Why not have an upgrade or at least a true competition with two QB’s of different backgrounds and strengths, how does that hurt the seahawks? Does it hurt them if Seattle is better next year? How? If this shows that when you don’t have the number pick overall get ready to spend two/three picks either way, then why does it matter if we try to constatnly get better at all positions and also gear up to spend a lot of picks?
Can we all agree that none of the pundits expected the Hawks to pick Flynn? I sure didn’t see anyone predict this, and I even read a few articles about how Flynn wouldn’t fit with PCs desire for a mobile QB and the Hawks would NEVER pick him.
I don’t want any more bull about how the pundits meant he would be to highly price, or the supply market changed, or whatever!!! NO one expected this = and most of us were still focused on complaining about the crappy draft choices for backup QB, or wondering how we could get Barkley in 2013.
I love it – this is a game changer – and if Flynn isn’t then we will get rid of him and move on.
“I haven’t heard one word about an out in the contract like kolb’s, so that’s just speculation.”
Hey Jarhead: If not guaranteed, there’s necessarily an out. Flynn is only guaranteed 10M! And 2 years of his services can be had for 13M. That is a great deal for the Hawks anyway you look at. I was not initially in favor of bringing in Flynn either, but it’s the prudent move in this case.
Also, comparing QB salaries to running back salaries is comparing apples and oranges. Help yourself out and do a little research.
This really sets up for a trade down. Decastro, maybe a rusher, maybe floyd will be in demand. If we can trade back:
1st Kuehly/Merciuls (lb)
2nd Hendricks (lb)
2nd Martin (rb)
3rd Osweiler
I would stress again that really all the Flynn move does is bring in the competition Seattle craves at QB. It doesn’t set up or shape the draft because the key targets are still there – DE, LB, RB.
I agree. I think he plays this year and if he fails, next year is early qb. Next year our qb’s could be flynn/osweiler/1st rd.
But having flynn, we don’t have any huge needs. Pass rusher, back up running back are needs, but linebacker will be our biggest need. Since you feel kuehly can be had later, wouldn’t it be a good idea to drop back and get him and hendricks, then our lb are young and fast just like our db’s.
I say this: I am all about getting Barkley next season, so adding Flynn does nothing to achieve that end. It only creates a controversy next year about whether to start the rookie right away. And don’t patronize me, I understand QB salaries and RB salaries are different. But the point is, tiger- why should an unproven back up qb who has put nothing in to your team’s success automatically come in and command one of the highest per year salaries on your team aside from Okung and Thomas who are on the old inflated rookie contracts. Look it up, maybe you could benefit from the same research. Flynn doesn’t deserve that kind of payday from us. And green bay kept him on the team for three years because he could manage the offense. And well, he went 1-1. Yeah Aaron Rodgers missed 2 games in three years. So it’s not like they were dying for a great backup. Anyways, honk will honk. Flynn coming in and being one of the highest paid Seahawks- QB or not I don’t care- is just wrong. Guess we’ll see it play out on the field won’t we? Can’t argue with that
Jarhead,
Relative to the QB market, the Flynn deal is very reasonable. They did not sign him based on a few games’ stats, they signed him based on his interview which included a physical demonstration of his passing skills and a white board session where he explained the keys to reading defenses before the snap. These are skills which he not only gained winning a national championship at LSU but in going through the practices, coaching, and week-to-week game prep during his time at Green Bay which included many playoff games. GB has a strong tradition because they have great coaching, scouting, and player development. They also signed him because after the market softened and Cleveland ignored him, he came at a great yearly rate, much less than some expected him to get if he had been franchised with a plan to trade him (which GB was wise not to do given the market reception).
He has great potential because he is really good at the primary skill it takes to be a quarterback, reading defenses. In addition, he has honed the skills to be able to run the Seahawks offense well. He still has a chance to fail or not live up to his potential but this is true of all QBs, even Manning (he could never be the same as he was or he could be more prone to injury at this point). There are many backups at all positions who have shined once given the opportunity, some of whom are current Seahawks starters (Kam, Sherman, KJ).
The fact that Flynn is one of the highest paid Seahawks is fantastic because he is expected to win the starting job and lead the offense. It is the most powerful position in football in terms of a teams overall success and as such it is rewarded higher than other positions. When he becomes the leader of the offense and by extension the team, he will in fact be underpaid, especially if he starts regularly throwing for 300+ every week.
Ed: Who is Hendricks? He’s a LB?
Rob, is it just me, or the Packers running a college offense? I didn’t chart it but it seems like Flynn is in the shotgun more than 75% of the time. That could be more than RG3 at Baylor… I wonder how similar the offense’s actually are (GB and Seattle). Maybe the passing concepts will be similar. I’m not particularly worried about it, just an observation.
“We’ve always argued it’s DE-LB-RB as the main targets.”
Makes me wonder if with the signing of Jason Jones DE is still the ‘lead pipe lock’ that this blog has emphasized. I have to think Jones’ one-year pact may not prevent the team from drafting a DE in round 1, but wonder if a guy like Ingram could play SLB/DE/Leo and be a better fit than a player like Upshaw?
I still think Mike Williams is expendable, as is Obomanu and maybe Butler, too. While fairly cheap to retain, I still think at our 12th pick the BPA may not be a pass-rusher. I think this front office is all about ‘value’ and adding talent and could totally see us picking a Richardson or Floyd in round 1 rather than potentially ‘reaching’ on a pass-rusher if the value isn’t there in the team’s eyes.
Jones is starting DT next to Mebane. Williams needs a big comeback year and he may benefit from a change at QB. Hopefully, he comes into camp in great shape. Otherwise, he may be on the bubble. Durham may have a big year.
All I care is the following:
1. FLynn’s contract was reasonable and still leaves us open to find other QB options if we need to.
2. He’s an upgrade to Tarvaris. Tarvaris is terrible. I don’t care how much happy smoke people try to blow at me, Tarvaris is terrible. I have no hope when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter with him in there. No hope at all. I’d rather try a 70 yard field goal than let Tavaris have the ball.
3. Flynn gave Green Bay a legitimate chance to win each time he started. He matched the production of the opposing QB. One of them Tom Brady and the other Matthew Stafford. I say that isn’t too bad. So what if his skill players helped him, just means they stepped up to make sure Matt Flynn looked good. To me that means they have strong confidence in the kid and want to see him do well.
4. Gives us a lot of draft flexibility so we’re not reaching for a QB like Tannehill with pick number 12. Now we can go best player available or even trade down to get more picks to draft us some stud LBs for Ken Norton Jr. to mold into studs.
I think this was another shrew, low risk/high reward move by the FO that sets us up well for the future. I’m 100% behind it.
Getting Flynn just assures us that we will be average. I would have kept TJ and lose and be able to make it easier to to for Barkley. Now we have just made it that much harder to get a franchise QB, and for what? The joy of being 8-8.
I would have taken Cousins, Tennehill, or Os because there is a chance they can develop into something great. With the Flynn Flam man, he has reached his ceiling and this is all you will get.
Kip,
Thanks for the response. I must have missed that Pete Carroll quote, and it’s definitely interesting in the context of what went down in the end.
I’m pretty much in agreement with you. Like all things in life, something that’s a terrible buy at one price (let’s call that a “Kolb” – can we make that a new word?) can become something entirely different at another.
Let’s hope Flynn ends up becoming a good buy.
Trying to lose to get a higher draft pick DOES NOT WORK, period. In medieval times, doctors would bleed patients to try to cure them of their ills. This is what that strategy is akin to.
Football teams are businesses that need to perform well as a business in addition to doing well in the win-lose columns. When the business is not profitable, it creates all kinds of other problems. It makes it harder to attract coaches, fans, to get great television deals, sell its merchandise, and most importantly ATTRACT FREE AGENTS like Jones, Flynn, Rice, and Miller. This would also include free agents coming back like Red, Mebane, etc.
As a GM, Schneider could try to build a team capable of getting the number one pick, but he would have to purposely do many things that would make it harder for PC to do his job. And ultimately, even if he could build an incredibly inept team, they will inevitably still win a few without the coach and players also getting involved to try to throw games.
Take the Cleveland Browns, they could have done all of that last year and still got suck with pick #4, been outmaneuvered by the Redskins and miss out on 2 franchise QBs, and while those two players are likely to have great success in the NFL, they also could be injured on any given play in the NFL, making all the nutty efforts moot.
Sucking for Luck, or Blowing up for Barkley is fools’ gold and it is not a plan you bring to your team, your coach, or your fan base, unless it is part of a plan to chase the franchise to a much smaller market like Oklahoma.
Rob – thanks for reminding everyone that “the key targets are still there – DE, LB, RB.”
But, I notice that you don’t necessarily believe that these targets have to be selected in the same order as you have listed them. That is, if by some miracle Richardson slips to #12, I think he’d have more value than Ingram/Upshaw/Coples. This draft has so many impressive edge players that I would not be suprised to see the Seahawks wait until Rd.2 to target one of them.
Although I usually oppose the idea of drafting “the best player available”, it may make sense this year to do that in the first round.
Donald, can you explain why we can only be an 8 win team with Flynn, when we were a handful of plays away from 11 last season with TJack?
Belgaron,
Thaks for the perspective….It’s never one piece away for any team, Does anyone really believe Luck is going ot fix Indy, they sure sucked for Luck as it were, but turns out that team is actually terrible….It took Detroit nearly ten odd years of picking in the top ten, and just for fun they picked first and then second, and then what happened oh that’s right, their QB got injured and they still sucked…it wasn’t until this last year that they got all their pieces to “start” to come together….
Or another team that sucked and got the number one pick that some of the commenters on this blog seem to wish for…San Francisco, how did that work out for them? It only took Alex Smith 7 years and a ton of picks in the top ten for him to prove that he is still well….Alex Smith……
What I can’t figure out for the life of me is if Flynn pushes us to 3-4 more wins, how does that suck for the Seahawks? Or does winning in proffessional sports not matter? What matters then, that we all have a good team, and learn sportsmanship, shake the hand of the opposing team and go have an ice cream party afterwards, because we sure tried our best, even if our best is say playing Charlie Whitehurst when we know full well that he isn’t up to it…
No folks, it’s all about winning, and when draft day comes and you want barkeley, or soem QB to be named later, you have all your pieces in place and you make a crazy trade for him….
I agree with Belgaron’s posts. Tossing a season for draft position hurts a team in numerous facets, and I think Belgaron explained well.
I am skeptical of Flynn, but I do not view this signing as bad or the end of the Seahawks. This is football and we can all disagree and at the end of the day that is ok. We are not running/managing the team, thank god.
BTW: I really really want to see Matt Barkely in a Hawks uniform.
All of the attention have been on Matt Flynn, but over at Seahawks.com I read some interesting comments by Pete Carroll on Jason Jones, the other FA signed last week:
“We really have needed since the day we got here an inside pass-rush ability. Jason has unusual quickness for a long, tall guy and has a good knack for rushing inside.”
“He will play some situational end for the Seahawks, but Carroll envisions him making the biggest impact at tackle.”
“We’re hoping that we can really feature him in all of our nickel package stuff and also fit him in to other situations that will suit him”
“He’s got big-play ability in him. He attacks the football really well. He forces fumbles. He knocks down passes. And he’s got an activity about him that we think really can help us and enhance our pass rush that needs to continue to grow.”
Meat-
Could you imagine the mess if all of us on this site were making the calls!!!
To pin all hopes of Seattle becoming a great team on landing Barkley is just naivety via the man crush. The NFL proves year after year that being good or great in college doesn’t mean all that much. It may mean a lot to the individual b/c he will likely get paid well having not done anything in the NFL to justify the money but for the most part it’s the qualities that augment physical attributes like smarts, instinct, work ethic, etc. that separate the men from the boys. Barkley may look great on paper but so did Ryan Leaf or Rick Mirer.
Don’t forget that Flynn beat out a 2nd round QB (Brohm) to become the backup in GB. He’s proven a few nice things in his 4 years in the league: he will compete, he wants to improve, he can succeed in a real game w/the skill set he has, and he has a great work ethic. What else do you want in a potential QB?
Everyone saying that Flynn is going to throw 300 yards every week are the same as us who say he will never be successful. You see it one way, I see it another. I don’t think Flynn will be successful at all. He will fail, that is my conjecture. The last and only thing I am saying on this flynn nonsense is- we will see it play itself out on the field. Come this time next year, I’ll guess we’ll know for sure if we were duped as fans or not.
Jarhead, That’s a pretty ridiculous conjecture. The guy has played two games, neither one as bad as you seem to be expecting. What is failure to you? Not a franchise QB? Oh well. Worse than Tarvaris? Is that what you’re saying? You can’t get much worse than Tarvaris as a starter, so I doubt Flynn is worse than Tarvaris. He’s absolutely awful. The idea is to improve your team. Flynn improves this team even if he isn’t some stud starter that becomes even the next Matt Hasselbeck. But for some reason you’re ready to annoint some guy like Osweiller who hasn’t played a game as better than Flynn based on nothihg but potential. There are at least 5 guys every year that have realistic “potential” and almost none of them work out. At least Flynn has played real games against good teams and been successful. Flynn is a very low risk-high reward decision. He is an upgrade over Tarvaris which isn’t very hard to do. Stop acting like we just hitched our wagon to Flynn as our franchise QB. We didn’t. We looked for and got an upgrade to Tarvaris with more immediate ability and experience to start than a guy we draft.
Jarhead,
Maybe we can take a hiatus for one season – would that make you happy? Or, maybe we can plant some stuff on Barkley and force him to enter the supplemental draft… Then we could get him, which puts us right where we are now. A winning QB, with a average to above average arm, who has yet to really prove anything on the field. Maybe Flynn sucks, but then again – maybe he doesn’t. Where is the risk in this signing? Please, enlighten me.
To say that Flynn is going to suck is a big leap in conjecture just like it is to say that he will throw 300 yards every time out.
Jarhead, what have you seen from Flynn that makes you come to the conclusion that he is going to suck royally?
In my opinion he is the type of “point guard” QB that the Hawks have been talking about. From what I have read, it seems like he has a high football IQ who is able to take a team out of a bad situation / play and get them in to a good one.
He’s quick with his reads and gets the ball out quick.
Again, there’s only 2 games worth of film on him and he had the deepest receiving corp to throw to, but I don’t think that you can dismiss what he did.
As long as you surround him with playmakers I think he will do fine. If he plays like Hasselbeck I will be happy.
@ Peter. LOL. I know right.
I just think about my own decisions and what a mess i would create. There is a reason I am a huge fan and not a GM.
I love that I found this site a couple years ago and the conversations. There is not another site for Hawk fans like this one.
Flynn is no beter than TJack, and his success is the tresult of playing with a great o line and great receivers. Put TJack in that Greenbay game against Detroit in a meaningless game, and he would have looked just as good. But we will see.
I have seen more poential with Tennehill, Cousins and Os than the natural talent that Flynn has. Everyone wants a cheap quick fix.
Packers do not have a great O line. Great teams having great O lines is a myth. Case in point, both the Packers and Steelers are known for rather below average lines, yet they win.
Not trying to devalue it’s importance, but I think the “need a great O line,” might be the biggest case of fool’s gold in all of sports. How are the Dolphins and Browns doing with their huge investments on the O line? Meanwhile, the Falcons, Packers, Steelers seem to be doing just fine and defying the dominant O line theory.
No way would the Seahawks have gone to the Superbowl without Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson on the offensive line. The single most important unit on the team.