Christian Miller has almost identical measurables to K.J. Wright
Seahawks showing interest in Drew Lewis?
According to Tony Pauline they were one of three teams spending time with Lewis at the Colorado pro-day. It’s not a big surprise. They have a massive need at linebacker and also a ‘type’ at the position. Lewis fits the bill with a 4.49 forty, 34 inch vertical, 10-9 broad and a 7.02 three cone. Reportedly he can also squat 515lbs.
Interestingly his father is a former Seahawks cornerback and actually spent 12 years in Seattle’s front office. His cousin is ESPN analyst Louis Riddick. Drew Lewis is a player to watch over the coming weeks.
Add another running back to the watch-list
Nebraska’s Devine Ozigbo measured at 5-11 and 222lbs at his pro-day. He ran a 4.54 forty, jumped a 37 inch vertical and a 10-4 broad. That’s the kind of size and explosive power Seattle looks for in a running back.
Meanwhile offensive lineman Tanner Farmer, a former four-star recruit and 96.84 SPARQ tester in High School, had a 32.5 inch vertical, a 9-10 broad jump and put up 39 reps on the bench press. Those marks warrant an outstanding 3.80 in TEF.
Post-combine mock draft
A few quick thoughts before getting into this…
1. Don’t assume D.K. Metcalf is suddenly a top-10 pick
Running a 4.33 at 228lbs is impressive. Some teams might be wowed by Metcalf’s potential and clear athleticism. However, here’s the reality of his combine performance. We learnt, unsurprisingly, he can run fast in a straight line. We already knew that. We’ve all seen the first snap of the Ole Miss vs Alabama game from 2018. He’s a superb downfield runner at his size. Yet his 4.50 short shuttle is the kind of time you’d expect from a decent defensive tackle. Trysten Hill, who we featured yesterday, ran a 4.38 short shuttle at 308lbs. Metcalf also ran a 7.38 three cone.
Teams were supposedly concerned about his size going into the combine. Surely those fears were confirmed here? Those times suggest a level of stiffness and an inability to change direction quickly. Then you add in the neck injury which for a time was considered career-threatening plus the all-too-frequent concentration drops. Could he be a top-15 pick after running a 4.33? Sure. Is it just as likely he lasts because of the concerns noted here? Yes, definitely.
2. Why is Jonah Williams frequently mocked in the top-10?
It’s been that way for a full draft season. Even Mike Solari seemed enamoured with him, calling on Williams to show the rest of the O-liners at the combine how to do the on-field drills. Yet his testing numbers show a player who lacks explosive traits (28 inch vertical, 8-4 broad jump) and didn’t test well in terms of agility (8.01 three cone, 4.79 short shuttle). He’s 6-4 and 302lbs.
Bob McGinn posted an article this week citing scouting sources on Williams. The positives included consistency and good hand placement. One scout called him a “good not great” player. Another said, “You’re watching him play left tackle, which he’s not. The more you watch him, the more you kind of sober up and ignore the chatter. You start thinking about him as a right tackle or a guard. You’re kind of reaching if you think that guy will be a top-10 left tackle.” A final scout added, “He’s a catcher. As a run blocker, he has absolutely no strength. Stalemates are his best.”
3. I’m torn on how to react to the combine
Montez Sweat’s excellent forty yard dash flashed elite-level speed and that could be enough to promote him into top-10 contention. He also had a strange exit from Michigan State and didn’t look comfortable in space during drills. Still — there aren’t many 260lbs players running a 4.41 with 36 inch arms so I’m putting him at #7.
Brian Burns on the other hand I’m only moving into the late first. He too had a great combine and answered some questions by weighing 249lbs. However, teams will likely look into the legitimacy of that weight. Did he drink a lot of water before being weighed? Because there’s no way he put on 20lbs of muscle since the end of the college season having reportedly played in the 220’s. He’s a talented player and a great speed rusher. But that doesn’t automatically mean teams will draft an undersized EDGE in the top-20. Doubts about his playing size and ability to defend the run will remain.
The mock in full
#1 Arizona — Kyler Murray (QB, Oklahoma)
#2 San Francisco — Nick Bosa (DE, Ohio State)
#3 New York Jets — Quinnen Williams (DT, Alabama)
#4 Oakland — Josh Allen (EDGE, Kentucky)
#5 Denver (via TB) – Drew Lock (QB, Missouri)
#6 New York Giants — Rashan Gary (DE, Michigan)
#7 Jacksonville — Montez Sweat (EDGE, Mississippi State)
#8 Detroit — T.J. Hockenson (TE, Iowa)
#9 Buffalo — Jawaan Taylor (T, Florida)
#10 Tampa Bay (via DEN) – Devin White (LB, LSU)
#11 Cincinnati – Dwayne Haskins (QB, Ohio State)
#12 Green Bay — Clelin Ferrell (DE, Clemson)
#13 Miami — Dexter Lawrence (DT, Clemson)
#14 Atlanta — Devin Bush (LB, Michigan)
#15 Washington — Greedy Williams (CB, LSU)
#16 Carolina — Andre Dillard (T, Washington State)
#17 Cleveland — Ed Oliver (DT, Houston)
#18 Minnesota — Christian Wilkins (DT, Clemson)
#19 Tennessee — Noah Fant (TE, Iowa)
#20 Pittsburgh — Marquise Brown (WR, Oklahoma)
#21 Buffalo – (via SEA) – Parris Campbell (WR, Ohio State)
#22 Baltimore — Jonah Williams (C/G, Alabama)
#23 Houston — Cody Ford (T, Oklahoma)
#24 Oakland — Irv Smith Jr (TE, Alabama)
#25 Philadelphia — Josh Jacobs (RB, Alabama)
#26 Indianapolis — D.K. Metcalf (WR, Ole Miss)
#27 Pittsburgh (via OAK) — Byron Murphy (CB, Washington)
#28 LA Chargers — Kaleb McGary (T, Washington)
#29 Kansas City — Brian Burns (EDGE, Florida State)
#30 Green Bay – Jachai Polite (EDGE, Florida)
#31 LA Rams — Garrett Bradbury (C, NC State)
#32 New York Giants (via NE) — Daniel Jones (QB, Duke)
The trades explained
Denver (#10) trades with Tampa Bay (#5) to select Drew Lock
I suspect some teams will grade Drew Lock as the #1 or #2 quarterback in this draft. Several reports have suggested John Elway is enamoured with Lock. The trade for Joe Flacco could be an attempt to recreate Kansas City’s plan (veteran — Alex Smith, rookie — Patrick Mahomes). If so, are they going to risk the Giants taking their guy at #6? They give the Buccs their 2020 first rounder.
Buffalo (#40) trades with Seattle (#21) to select Parris Campbell
The Bills need to surround Josh Allen with weapons. I have them taking Jawaan Taylor with their first pick. Will they move up to secure some genuine downfield speed? They could target Marquise Brown or Parris Campbell (who ran a 4.31 at the combine). The Bills have an extra fourth and fifth round pick so they have something to spend to move up. They give Seattle a third, fourth and fifth to trade up 19 spots.
Oakland (#27) trades with Pittsburgh for Antonio Brown
This one increasingly seems inevitable. It’s simply a case of whether the Raiders need to give up one of their first rounders. Can they get the Steelers to accept a second round pick? Brown to the Raiders could be completed before the end of the week.
The New York Giants (#37) trade with New England (#32) to select Daniel Jones
I can see a scenario where the Giants don’t take a quarterback with their first pick but trade back into the late first to select one. That could be Daniel Jones. There’s a connection between the Manning’s and Jones through Duke coach David Cutcliffe. This could be a plausible way to make a seamless transition from the older quarterback to a younger player. The Pats take a fourth rounder to move down five spots.
Second round
#33 Arizona — Greg Little (T, Ole Miss)
#34 Indianapolis — Dre’Mont Jones (DT, Ohio State)
#35 Oakland — Jeffery Simmons (DT, Mississippi State)
#36 San Francisco — Taylor Rapp (S, Washington)
#37 New England (via NYG) — Josh Oliver (TE, San Jose State)
#38 Jacksonville — Johnathan Abram (S, Mississippi State)
#39 Tampa Bay — Will Grier (QB, West Virginia)
#40 Seattle (via Buf) — Christian Miller (EDGE, Alabama)
#41 Denver — Dawson Knox (TE, Ole Miss)
#42 Cincinnati — Mack Wilson (LB, Alabama)
#43 Detroit — Justin Layne (CB, Michigan State)
#44 Green Bay — Deebo Samuel (WR, Green Bay)
#45 Atlanta — Chris Lindstrom (G, Boston College)
#46 Washington — N’Keal Harry (WR, Arizona State)
#47 Carolina — Darnell Savage (S, Maryland)
#48 Miami — Dalton Risner (T, Kansas State)
#49 Cleveland — Hakeem Butler (WR, Iowa State)
#50 Minnesota — Erik McCoy (C, Texas A&M)
#51 Tennessee — Chase Winovich (EDGE, Michigan)
#52 Pittsburgh — Zach Allen (DE, Boston College)
#53 Philadelphia — A.J. Brown (WR, Ole Miss)
#54 Houston — Deandre Baker (CB, Georgia)
#55 Houston — Chauncey Gardner-Johnson (S, Florida)
#56 New England — L.J. Collier (DE, TCU)
#57 Philadelphia — Trayvon Mullen (CB, Clemson)
#58 Dallas — Jaylon Ferguson (EDGE, Louisiana Tech)
#59 Indianapolis — Isaiah Johnson (CB, Houston)
#60 LA Chargers — Elgton Jenkins (C, Mississippi State)
#61 Kansas City — Jerry Tillery (DT, Notre Dame)
#62 New Orleans — Miles Boykin (WR, Notre Dame)
#63 Kansas City — Terry McLaurin (WR, Ohio State)
#64 New England — Juan Thornhill (S, Virginia)
Seahawks seven-rounder
This includes the trade with Buffalo presented in the mock above.
#40 (R2) — Christian Miller (LB, Alabama)
#74 (R3) — Trysten Hill (DT, UCF)
#84 (R3) — Marvell Tell (S, USC)
#124 (R4) — Dru Samia (G, Oklahoma)
#131 (R4) — Gary Jennings (WR, West Virginia)
#158 (R5) — Trevon Wesco (TE, West Virginia)
#159 (R5) — Derrek Thomas (CB, Baylor)
Thoughts on each pick
#40 Christian Miller (LB, Alabama)
This could go one of two ways. Either he plays EDGE and acts as a pass rusher. Or how about this. Miller is 6-3, 247lbs and has 35 1/8 inch arms. K.J. Wright at his combine was 6-3, 246lbs with 34 7/8 inch arms. Now — they are different players. But body wise they are similar. We know the Seahawks are willing to try and coach an EDGE to become a linebacker (see: Bruce Irvin). So this could be an option. The Seahawks also seemingly pay attention to the short shuttle at linebacker. Miller didn’t run a short shuttle at the combine but at SPARQ he was timed at 4.18. In comparison, Devin White ran a 4.17.
#74 Trysten Hill (DT, UCF)
I wrote about Hill’s tape yesterday but here’s why I think he might fit for the Seahawks. They’ve consistently drafted defensive linemen who test well in the short shuttle. Hill ran an excellent 4.38. Pete Carroll hasn’t drafted a defensive linemen with sub-33 inch arms. Hill has 33.5 inch arms. He’s also extremely explosive (35 inch vertical) and quick (third fastest 10-yard split among DT’s). In terms of testing, he’s as explosive as Ed Oliver. This would be an opportunity to get one of the best defensive tackles in a deep class. He’ll only last this long due to questions about his final year at UCF, where he seemingly didn’t see eye-to-eye with the new coaches upon Scott Frosts departure. The Seahawks love an opportunity like this.
#84 Marvell Tell (S, USC)
Seattle’s defense utilised three safety’s at times in 2018. Will they take it a step further this year? Justin Coleman is a free agent. With so many of the safety’s running 4.4 or above at the combine — their next nickel could be a safety. Marvell Tell has the quickness and agility to potentially switch to corner. He ran an incredible 6.63 three cone and a 4.01 short shuttle. It also helps that he’s 6-2 and has 33 1/8 inch arms — so they might even try him outside. He also jumped a 42 inch vertical and was a captain at USC. He’s a terrific talent who could be tried at multiple positions.
#124 Dru Samia (G, Oklahoma)
Why Samia? Simple. He’s a BAMF who excels in the running game. He’s the most aggressive, nasty offensive linemen in the draft. He wants to fight everyone and get after you. The Seahawks regained their identity in 2018 and Samia fits into that. He’s not going to excel in pass-pro. He’s a pure run blocker. That’s what the Seahawks seem to go for.
#131 Gary Jennings (WR, West Virginia)
All but two of Seattle’s 2010-18 draft picks at receiver have run in the 4.4’s. The two that didn’t were seventh round flier Kenny Lawler and Chris Harper (who ran a 4.50). So the chances are any wide out they draft will run in the 4.4’s. I picked Jennings because he ran a 4.42, excels at making chunk plays, competes for the ball, finishes runs, is clever to shield defenders and gain position and he’s effective working inside or out. He’d be a nice compliment to what they already have.
#158 Trevon Wesco (TE, West Virginia)
Wesco is 6-3, 267lbs and has nearly 35 inch arms. He’s basically another offensive linemen — which as we’ve come to learn over the last 12 months, is the type they’re going for. He also has good special teams value, plays with an aggressive attitude, appears to enjoy blocking in the running game and is basically right out of the Will Dissly book of tight ends. He’s no slouch — he ran a 4.38 short shuttle which was faster than Josh Oliver (4.47) and not far behind Irv Smith Jr (4.33). Wesco could also be used as a full back. Seattle has regularly targeted tight ends with a sub-7.10 three cone but only three players managed that at the combine (Noah Fant, T.J. Hockenson, Kaden Smith).
#159 Derrek Thomas (CB, Baylor)
When he ran the forty at the combine he looked like a Seahawks cornerback. Long and lean. He’s 6-3, 189lbs and has 34 inch arms. Sound familiar? Tre Flowers is 6-3, 202lbs and has 34 inch arms. There are more rounded cornerbacks Seattle could target such as Jamal Peters or Lonnie Johnson. However, it’s possible both players will be gone by this point — leaving Seattle to take a profile fit.
Other players I seriously considered for this mock:
Will Grier (QB, West Virginia)
The best deep-ball thrower in college football for two years and possibly the best option if Seattle wants to insure against a Russell Wilson-contract saga.
Alec Ingold (FB, Wisconsin)
A tenacious full back — something Seattle’s offense has been lacking for a while. He’ll also contribute on special teams.
Several tight ends, including Drew Sample (TE, Washington)
We could see a long list of tight ends drafted in the first three rounds. The Seahawks could easily go in that direction early.
Several of the 4.4 runners at receivers
They could take a receiver at any point in this draft, including with their first pick. There aren’t any clear top-10 wide outs but there’s plenty of depth.
Bobby Evans (T, Oklahoma)
He’s physical, tough and enjoys the run game. He’s versatile enough to play guard or tackle and they might need some insurance for the long term.
Isaiah Prince (T, Ohio State)
He stood out at the combine as the most athletic and impressive looking offensive tackle. He’s 6-6, 305lbs and has +35 inch arms.
Michael Jordan (G/C, Ohio State)
He has major potential and looked the part at the combine. He could be developed to play any position at the next level.
Justin Hollins (EDGE, Oregon)
A highly athletic EDGE with the kind of quickness, speed and length they’ve looked for at the position.
Daniel Wise (DT, Kansas)
A possible specialist interior rusher with the production, length (33 inch arms) and quickness (4.37 short shuttle) they like.
Drew Lewis (LB, Colorado)
Explosive (10-9 broad, 32.5 inch vertical) and quick (4.49) — the type they’ve drafted in the past at linebacker.
Khalil Hodge (LB, Buffalo)
A tackling machine and somebody Tony Pauline reported Seattle has interest in. Gritty player with a backstory.
Lonnie Johnson (CB, Kentucky)
The latest recipient of a stare-out challenge at the combine. Johnson has everything they like — length, speed and toughness.
Jamal Peters (CB, Mississippi State)
A converted safety who lacks speed (4.64) but has a bit of Brandon Browner to his size and tackling.
Marquise Blair (S, Utah)
A heat-seeking missile as a tackler who actually ran better than expected at the combine (4.48).
Juan Thornhill (S, Virginia)
If they’re looking for playmaking in the secondary, Thornhill had six interceptions last season. He also ran a 4.42 forty and jumped a 44 inch vertical and an 11-9 broad. A special athlete.
There are many others I could’ve included, these were just some under consideration in this particular pre-free agency projection.
You can now support Seahawks Draft Blog via Patreon by clicking the tab below.
Rob, I was wondering what your thoughts are on Jaylon Ferguson. He seems to have great length and production (maybe a little light though). I know he didn’t perform at the combine and is pretty raw, but would he be a fit as an EDGE in our 4-3 scheme or would he be better suited as a 3-4 OLB? Do you think he is too raw to go on the first two rounds?
He would be a fit. I thought he looked quite raw on tape — showed real flashes mixed in with a lot of mediocre stuff. Then at the Senior Bowl he was underwhelming and didn’t really make a statement. Consensus now seems to be he’ll last.
If the Seahawks get an edge in free agency I would love to see them go get Debo Samuel, Chris Lindstrom, or mclaurin if they traded down again. Do you think Mack Wilson could help out at linebacker? I seem to recall you saying he was good in coverage. Any reason the Seahawks won’t take him?
I’m not sure how much Seattle places on coverage for its LB’s. That’s Wilson’s calling card for me. His work up at the LOS was a bit underwhelming in 2018. Wouldn’t rule him out for Seattle but we need to see him test after he passed on the combine.
In our division we need a run stopping LB that can cover TE’s. Kendrick’s is a great player but will be a liability covering the pass on 1st & second down. If we can’t find it in the draft we really need to bring back KJ and trade or cut Mingo. We didn’t use Mingo to rush the passer so I wouldn’t underestimate Mingo’s ability to do it. I thought Mingo did a great job at SAM and I wouldn’t be surprised if Hawks got a late round pick for him.
KJ, Wagner, Kendrick’s on the field 1st & 2nd down is what we want.
I am in agreement that we need a LB that can go out in coverage a bit. The D seemed to struggle some on 3rd and medium to long. even if we can keep Kendricks and KJ we should try for a LB this draft. Even if it is in the earlier rounds, but they have found lots od LB value in mid to late rounds.
They must improve on inside pass rush from the DT’s and run stopping from the DT’s. I could careless how they do it as long as they do it. I’d be shocked however if they don’t address the DL with one of their 1st 2 pics.
KJ was never a great coverage LB. They just need someone who can seal an edge and hold us vs the run.
Wait really? I was always under the impression that KJ excelled in coverage for WLB. Other than his speed being a limitation anyway.
I trust your judgement though, as I am far less adept at watching game film.
I have nightmares of KJ trying to cover Gronk
To be fair to KJ, Gronk has made a career out of making quality defenders look silly
Sure but KJ has never been a coverage LB and that simply showed it in an emphatic way
I’m no scout, but KJ’s reputation was as an excellent cover LB.
Was is the key word! The more I think about it, this doesn’t make sense, why would they not immediately resign KJ? They must be going after Le’Veon Bell.
They’re not signing LeVeon Bell
Well then I guess I’m having a wet dream that last thru the following day. If you don’t mind I’m gonna get the most of it!
I think you’d have to take Samia in the third while Hill should last into the third day. Dude barely played for a non-P5 team last year. He’s not as good of a prospect as Shaquill Griffin was coming out. Doubt he goes anywhere near 74 tbh. Griffin went 90 and was actually a positive influence for his team.
Wish we had more resources to project range more accurately. Year after year guys we liked for the third round go in the seventh and our secound round targets go in the fifth.
Just because we have a third round grade on Hill doesn’t mean we need to take him in that range.
Im definitely off the Renell Wren hype train though, finally.
In fact, I bet we don’t touch Hill. I doubt the Griffin bros have much good to say about his locker room demeanor.
He’ll probably go day 3, have a nice little career and we’ll be salty that he wasnt on Seattles draft board.
There’s a reason why he played as little as he did in 2018 though. And none of it’s down to talent. He didn’t see eye to eye with the new coach. Prior to that, the old staff spoke highly of him (per Jim Nagy’s twitter account). People might say this is an alarm bell but Doug Baldwin didn’t see eye to eye with his college coach either.
Hill is one of the best defensive tackles in this draft. He has insane upside. We’re talking about the same level of explosive testing as Ed Oliver but with 4.38 short shuttle quickness and ideal size/length. The only reason he might be there in R3 is because of the 2018 season. Otherwise he’d go earlier.
He had an awesome level of balance, agility, and on-field intelligence in the tape I saw. He plays a little too high and leans into the rush but those are coachable. The profile probabaly warrants a third based on talent. he’s also pretty scheme versatile could be a target in the arms race
UCF has gotten themselves onto the national radar in a big way since Shaquill was taken 90 overall. This is a loaded DT class for sure.
I’m wondering if you’ve got an idea of what the talent shelfs are at each position yet
The top 10 looks pretty good to me. I’m not sure Lock is going to Denver, but they also don’t seem like an obvious fit for Haskins…. so I’m not sure what they will do, maybe they will trade down a little bit then grab the QB they like or another position, such as DL (or EDGE LB/DE).
If Metcalf landed with the Colts, that would be a very good fit. He can run the more vertical routes while the rest of the Colts WRs can run the intermediate and middle of the field stuff. He would also be paired with a very good QB, so that wouldn’t hurt his ability to play and make plays from day one either.
Rob, who do you prefer more for the Seahawks? D’Andre Walker or Christian Miller?
Was thinking about walker too, esp if he lasts to the 3rd?!
Wondering if we could get Simmons and Walker?
Increasingly I think Barr is a pipe dream. I’d love to happen but don’t think it will hence we need for both edge and inside pressure.
I don’t know. Walker hasn’t tested yet.
Christian Miller seems very Seahawky. I’d guess medicals will be huge in determining his range considering the injury history. Also a 1 year wonder (doesn’t bother me). I’ve been mocking him in the 3rd but could see him being the classic Seahawks “surprise” first pick.
I see your sticking to your guns with Dre’Mont Jones > Tillery post combine. Brutal combine for Jones has to hurt his stock I’d think.
Brutal combine? Not really.
And Tillery has just had surgery to repair a torn labrum.
Not brutal I guess, more like very underwhelming. He was expected to test really well as an athletic but undersized penetrating DT. He didn’t. He’s In the 25 percentile for spark on DL (bottom quarter of the league isn’t great for someone touted as a great athlete IMO)
The labrum thing doesn’t bother me for Tillery. He’s expected to be ready for training camp. It shows his toughness playing through it and it gives a potential explanation to why his performance fell off a little in the back half of the season. Tillery is 84th percentile for comparison of athleticism.
Underwhelming is a fair assessment. But he still ran a 4.53 short shuttle and had some explosive power. And teams want pass rushers. That’s what he is.
The labrum thing can’t be written off. It’ll have some impact. Him saying he’ll be back for camp and it actually happening are two different things. It’s a serious surgery that takes months of recovery.
It’s important not to judge everything on what percentile they are. That’s not the be-all and end-all. What percentile was Da’Ron Payne a year ago? Top-15 pick? Tillery has a lot of question marks.
Looks like Rob was having a Seahawk draft wet dream. 3rd, 4th, and 5th for WR Paris Campbell I truly hope it was a vision. Rob great write up on many fantastic Seahawky prospects. Love the OL candidates, justification for the Alabama LB and the West Virginia WR. Pete & John are probably desperately gaming out every scenario to try to acquire draft capital. Did you guys notice the huge demand for centers?
Look up the trade table values and I’m sure you’ll find that Rob’s numbers add up.
The trade value does add up!
I would be fine with trading 21 -> 40 and 3rd, 4th, 5th….BUT it would hurt like hell if they’d take Campbell with our pick 🙁
I changed my mind. I’m not willing to wait until 40 to pick when we can trade our 2020 comp pics for 2019 pics. Anybody they fall in love with they should draft him with their 1st pic.
You can’t trade comp picks you don’t have.
And they won’t ‘fall in love’ with anyone at 21.
Anyone have a list of the games the Hawks scouted to match up with the guys we are looking at?
Rob, good mock overall. I feel you’ve included some surprise picks we haven’t talked about. Seems to happen every year. Couple notes though:
Tayler you mentioned has been overrated in other mocks yet you have him as the first tackle taken. McGary, I think you’ve ranked too high.. there are better options ahead of him such as Ford, for one. Furthermore, I think Hawks might prefer Dawson Knox over Miller, given he is a more complete tight end. I could also see them going for Chase Winovich to secure a true second round graded DE opposite of Clark (if Hawks truly believe they can contend IN super bowl this year).
That last part, surely is something every professional accounts for when planning their future. You have to truly believe you can hit your target, not just hope to make it to a super bowl.
Knox over Wesco you mean? 🙂
Yeah, he might be, also Moreau or Sample is a more standard blocking TE. But Wesco is more intriguing to be honest. He’s more right in between a lineman, FB and TE.
Knox/Moreau/Sample would be more in the mould of Vannett and Dissly. Wesco is more like Fant just smaller and has a better catch ability.
I hope they take either Wesco and use him 40% FB, 40% 6th lineman 20% traditional TE. It would be fun
1. I didn’t say Jawaan Taylor has been overrated in other mocks I said Jonah Williams, who I have lasting to #22 because Baltimore always seems to draft Alabama guys.
2. I have Cody Ford going five picks before Kaleb McGary.
3. Winovich to me isn’t a scheme fit in Seattle and is better suited to 3-4 OLB. Plus they’ve never drafted a DL with shorter than 33 inch arms.
One problem with this mock is where does Josh Rosen end up? You’ve got the two most likely teams (Giants & Broncos) picking QBs (and Cincy). The Redskins traded for Keenum and don’t have the draft picks to trade for Rosen, the Jags appear to be going to give Foles a big contract and the Raiders are saddled with Carr’s contract. My guess is the Cards will come to their senses and not take Murrey with the first pick.
Maybe he was traded for a R3 plus future comp. Maybe they let them both compete. But Murray is far better than Rosen.
I like Rosen he was a great QB at UCLA had some incredible come backs making big time throws at UCLA. If they really want Murray they should draft him to battle it out with Rosen. AZ has no pressure to win and nobody’s gonna complain if you have 2 QB’s; however if you trade Rosen there are multiple future scenarios that could get you fired.
That’s one way of describing Rosen’s career at UCLA. Another is that he never elevated his team, was constantly injured or banged up and seemed to coast through his college career.
Rosen was the one QB last year that I was really weary of. He has all the physical tools but a ton of issues about what is going up upstairs and what is going on in his heart.
Is he “all ball?” If not, is that what you want to spend a first round pick on at the quarterback position?
Now, one year later, they’re talking about shipping him out for a 3rd round pick, and I gotta say, for as talented as Murray is, if by chance things don’t work out with him, that is massively going to set back that organization.
I know this sounds “old man, get off my lawn stuff” but if you miss at QB in round one that’s typically tough to recover from quickly, and then if you do it back to back drafts? Good lordy.
I think teams agree with both of us! That’s why AZ went after him and that’s why he didn’t go #1
And if you don’t trade Rosen and have them compete, Murray could say *screw this* and go play baseball. Now you’ve blown a first overall pick and THAT will get a GM fired.
Murray wants to get paid now not 5 years down the road in Baseball.
I agree, but will he sit on the bench if he loses the competition to Rosen? I just see Murray as a bigger risk than most currently do. Gut feel maybe.
But hey! I’m a Hawks fan, so if the Cards blow it, I’m good with that.
Let’s say Jacksonville signs a QB in FA, why would they not consider Haskins at their pick (if he is available)? He would be a nice fit imo for their offense. Not asked to sling it all around, but has enough to make the offense more multi-dimensional and explosive in the passing attack. He would be no worse than Bortles… and has some upside for the next 3-4 years…. They could rely on the defense (if it returns to form… big question mark to me) and stout rushing attack.
(Also the comments appear almost instantaneously now, thanks Rob)
I think Haskins is a bit overrated and I think Jacksonville want to win now.
Plus the Jags look like they are going to pay Foles big bucks probably with guarantees. So, if Haskins wins the job, Jacksonville is still on the hook for Foles’ contract.
I would be so disappointed with this type of trade. My dream scenario trade is trade back with GB or NEP for late 1st + late 2nd or early 3rd and then trade late 1st for Hou or Phi two middle 2nd (or even Chiefs two late 2nd + 5th).
I have read that Juan Thornhill had really bad interviews and show extremly low football IQ.
Trade 21st with GB for 30th + 76th.
Trade 30th with Hou for 54th + 55th.
54. Charles Omenihu (36″ arms 5 tech)
55. Chauncey Gardner Johnson (slot corner 1st season and then fs)
76. Terry Mclaurin (seahawks type wr)
84. Lonnie Johnson (seahawks type cb)
This would be a steal, not a trade. The point difference between what we’re giving up vs what we’re getting is the same as someone would give us a late 3rd round pick for free
Exactly!
Rich Hill draft chat:
Pick 21 – 261p
Pick 54 – 104p
Pick 55 – 101p
Pick 75 – 63
So (104+101+63) – 261= 7p 7p is 6th round pick not 3rd round.
It is not that hard to go on internet and find some things, calculate with few numbers and then write something.
You’re not going to be able to trade back into the late first round and get a second round pick in return. They traded from #18 to #27 a year ago and only got a third.
I didn’t do that.
21 for 30 + 75.
Late first + 3rd round pick.
Your using the wrong chart!
Steelers closing in on a deal to send AB84 to the Buffalo Bills! Hes staying in the AFC! This is nice considering the Arizona and SF talk in the saga. I wonder if it’s their 1st ir 2nd rounder, I could see it going either way. Maybe a bidding war started up today and they got a 1st. Or maybe they settled for a early 2nd. Josh Allen is getting that weapon, Rob.
HAHAHAH!!! He forced his way outta Pittsburgh to go to Buffalo!
Over/under on week 2 with the local radio guys saying ‘he has to help Josh Allen out here’ ‘iF yOuR gOnNA mAkE tHAT mUCh MoNEy’ as Allen sails multiple throws on him during a single quarter.
I love this.
Buffalo not dumb, already backed out 😀
Excuse me sir. Buffalo started perhaps the worst QB to ever step foot on an NFL field in Nathan Peter-man and drafted Josh Allen. They dumb.
And they traded away a veteran QB who was actually doing a fairly decent job starting. They dumb.
Buffalo wanted him, AB’s the one who’s not dumb (in this case, at least…) and vetoed the deal.
This is becoming like NBA stars though forcing their trade destinations and I’m not sure I like it.
Not sure why the deal fell apart, but how can AB veto the deal without a full no-trade clause in his contract? He would have to threaten to retire, and then actually follow through on this threat. Then he gets no further compensation, so this seems like a somewhat hollow threat.
Man… if you guys haven’t seen A.P. Bio yet, you gotta check it out. Its hilarious. Glenn Howerton does a great job haha. Season 2 is just starting up tonight.
Seahawks could use 2020 draft picks to trade in & around this years draft.2020 Compensation picks are tradable too. Seahawks should get 3rd for ET, 4th or 5th for Coleman &/or KJ we should have 4 comp pics. 2020 3rd round comp pic = 2019 early 4th , 2020 4th = 2019 5th (2016 trade with NE to get 5th Jefferson) Seahawks could add a 3 pics ( 4th & 2 5ths) to the 2019 draft by trading away 2020 comps. So you should should mock a late 1st/early 2nd, 2 3rds, 2 4ths, and 3 5th round pics, = 8 draft pics targeting late 1st round/early 2nd round, early 3rd round, 4th and 5th rounds pics, I don’t see how the Seahawks don’t do something like this, they have way too many needs this year.
I dont think that’s what we’re looking to do right now. Were not in win now mode, why would we let our FAs walk for comp picks just to devalue those comp picks and essentially waste them just to replenish lost draft capital in bad trades. That just seems like it would tie our hands behind our backs even more and reduce our chances of adding quality players.
I’m actually in the boat for us (or any team) to trade down for future picks. We have time to wait for that to pay off, and could really create a chance for us to add some good pieces.
Heres an idea. We trade down with Houston for #54 and #55 as Millhouse proposed above. Then we trade one of those for a 2020 1st round pick from a contender who knows itll probably be after #25. I think that would be an excellent way to set us up for future success, all out of a draft where you have 4 picks. It would be a master move by John Schneider if he pulled that off.
Don’t you remember ET giving everyone the finger? Coleman is going to cost to much and there are slot corner prospects in this draft. Trading future 4th round comp pics for a current 5th round is something Seahawks will definitely do when in the past they have traded a non comp 4th round pic for a 5th. No way Houston serves up #54 & #55 for #30, #30 is not worth 54 & 55. Also If you trade back from 21 to 30 you will get pick 82 not 76. We traded back last year from 18 and got pick 74.
They’re not going to trade 2020 picks for 2019 picks. That’s just moving a problem back 12 months and it’d be terrible value. You also lose a round in value when you trade future picks.
A late 4th for a middle 5th is not that big of a deal. Are you absolutely sure the 2020 draft is better or equal to the 2019 middle rounds? We are on track for 11 draft pics in 2020 before we trade back in the 1st &/or 2nd round in 2020. Think about it Pete signed a 3 year extension, we need to win now! You listed several Seahawky prospects above it makes complete sense to get them on the team now, Seahawks have never traded back 19 spots, etc..
They’re not trading 2020 picks to make up picks this year
1. You can’t trade comp picks for 2020 because they won’t be announced until 2020. Last years list got announced last month… decidedly too late for last years draft.
2. You can’t count on comp picks, as last year showed us. We lost more talent last year and got zero comp picks for this year.
Teams have a pretty good idea once the FA signs a contract. It’s not difficult to trade into round 4 and teams often have too many round 4,5,6,7th round pics. 2020 middle rounds don’t jump out at me like 2019 middle rounds do.
Having a good idea of what you might get doesn’t mean that you can trade the pick before you get it though. That’s the whole point.
The only way to do what you’re proposing would be to trade our natural picks in 2020 for 2019 picks and then hope that we offset those picks with comp picks next year. It just doesn’t make sense.
Again, there’s no guarantee that you will be getting comp picks next year, apart from forgoing free agency completely this year. On top of that, as Rob mentioned, you’re trading next years 3rd for this years 4th, or next years 4th for this years 5th…
If Arizona does take Murray would the Giants send the number six pick in this year’s draft to Arizona for Rosen? If Arizona could then convert the number six pick into two picks in the top 40 to grab first a left tackle and then a receiver they could get better in a hurry.
Rosen won’t yield anything higher than a 2nd rd pick. I’d personally be shocked if it were higher than a 3rd rd pick. With the lack of teams “fighting” for Rosen, the Giants would be better off going BPA @ #6 and using their 2nd rd pick on a QB that best fits their system.
It has been my belief since day 1 of the Kingsbury signing that Murray would go #1 and Rosen gets traded to NE. I can see the Patriots giving up #73 for him…
I might be wrong but I recall that, at the time Kingsbury was hired by the Cards, everyone thought that Murray was sure to play baseball.
I doubt they’ll get a high pick for Rosen.
I saw an article from Seahawk Maven that was touting Blake Cashman. I popped over to his combine numbers to see if the article was worth the read. Guess what…
4.5 forty
37.5 vertical
124 broad
6.95 3cone
4.12 20shuttle
Them there are some numbers they are!
The article was about his battle from walk-on to team captain for the Minnesota Golden Gophers. The downside is that he’s only 237 lbs and has had some surgeries. But he sure fits the attitude and athletic profile the Hawks value. Here’s the article with also has some analysis of his plays.
https://footballmaven.io/seahawks/gm-report/prospect-profile-former-walk-on-lb-blake-cashman-could-be-money-for-seahawks-E2JCXSWrQ0KT_E1TKuQTOQ/
SamL brought him up near the end of the last thread. Here’s my take again:
Were he and Drue Tranquill separated at birth?!? I mean, what is this?
Cashman: 6011, 237, 30 1/8 arm, 8.75 hand, 73 5/8 wing, 4.50 40yd, 1.55 10yd, 4.12 SS, 6.95 3C, 18 bench, 37.5 vert, 10’3″ broad
Tranquill: 6020, 234, 31 1/2 arm, 9.75 hand, 74 1/4 wing, 4.57 40yd, 1.54 10yd, 4.14 SS, 6.94 3C, 31 bench, 37.5 vert, 10’2″ broad
Tranquill has better length and is stronger, Cashman is slightly faster.
Tranquill has battled adversity (left ACL 2014, right ACL 2015, then played every game of the last 2 seasons), Cashman was a tackling machine in 2018 and has PFF on his side (“Cashman was one of only two linebackers in the country who finished with 80.0-plus grades in run defense, pass-rushing, coverage and tackling this season.”)
Tranquill has 3 years of strong production, Cashman only has 1.
Tranquill was invited to the Sr. Bowl (and was named by scouts as one of the practice week winners.) Cashman was invited to… nothing (and skipped his team’s bowl game to prep for Combine).
Anyway, if you want this profile LB, IMO go for Tranquill hands down.
One of those guys whose combine doesn’t show up on the tape.
Now I feel good about my mock under the other post 😀
I also mocked Miller in the second, Wesco in the fifth. Also mocked Jennings, Thomas, Hill just in different rounds than you. Didn’t mock Tell, but selected Savage, and also projected OL in later (5th in my mock)
And in my mock the Hawks get lucky and got another 6th round and they spent on Ingold.
So now I like this draft even more. I think this would cover a lot of ground, generate pretty solid depth.
It has some need-picks (EDGE, DT, #3 WR, TE) and some compete for the job/depth picks (CB, S, OG)
👏👏 nice work.
Would love that draft, pretty much addresses everything.
It does but 3rd down Running back, QB, & Kicker.
With so few picks I’d be annoyed if they take a running back.
Agreed. Just last year (granted deep RB class) there were UDFA’s who made impacts for their teams: Phillip Lyndsay, Josh Adams, Gus Edwards.
Have I told you guys how little I care what Charley f***ing Casserly thinks about how a prospect interveiwed?
Don’t need to, cause we don’t care either. 😀
By the way, did you see this?
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1103686985846272000
CC is a schmo. I realize he has been around the game a long time and I do respect his status within the league, but so much of what he says seems like a crock. And after that cringey interview where he made the guy start over because he didn’t realize it was live and he wasn’t prepared for the question he asked, I feel like I can’t ever take him seriously.
Rob, I really like this haul for the Seahawks. That would be a home run draft, and very realistic. I’d name it the “all-upside” draft class.
Christian Miller screams Seahawks, it’s just hard to pin down where we will have to draft him. People sleeping on him and another guy who couldn’t do much at the combine: D’Andre Walker, whose build isn’t actually as different as it seems to the eye:
Miller: 6033, 247, 35 1/8 arm, 9 3/4 hand, 82.25 wing
Walker:6023, 251, 34 1/4 arm, 9 7/8 hand, 81.75 wing
For all the concern we had about Walker being slightly undersized for DE, he’s just 1 inch shorter than the wiry Miller in both height and length. For the concern that he might not offer as much in pass rush, in 2018:
Miller: 14 games, 8 sacks, 11 TFL
Walker: 12 games, 7.5 sacks, 11 TFL
I think maybe we should go back to some of those articles you were writing about him during the season and re-kindle that love for his BAMF play style.
Trysten Hill, as you say, is exactly the kind of prospect they are drawn to. Props to V12 for the early find. Those movement drills at the combine still have me floored.
I haven’t posted the results of my safety study yet, but even before you mentioned Marvell Tell as a possible CB convert in the last article, I was already set on that as well. He is this year’s Tre Flowers, if you will. I see him at outside CB. Heat-seeking missile tackler, excellent short area and change of direction speed shows up on tape, solid not spectacular long speed: perfect for what we look for.
Also, he’s big into the “swag” factor, even though on tape I didn’t see him jumping around celebrating wildly at every play made, which I actually think can denote a certain level of calmness/patience that is good for a CB (again, I think of Tre Flowers).
USC Football – One For All – Marvell Tell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opFr7jDKvv8
Dru Samia I haven’t watched, but I defer to your takes on OL anyway since you excel at that in particular. Not sure if he’s TEF enough for the next level (2.74), but Solari might not care about that anyway as much as the nasty streak in them.
Gary Jennings is just starting to uncover his potential this past season. Had the fastest max speed on South team at the Sr. Bowl at 21.56 MPH and made big plays in the game. His 40 time translates to game speed.
His top 3 comps in the past 5 years are Martavis Bryant, Amara Darboh, and Ricardo Louis. That’s good company (athleticism wise… 😂)
Is also a solid character guy and good interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyg8PmznQi8
Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTtFnAMnTjY
Trevon Wesco has been one of my guys forever now. Also saves a valuable roster spot by doubling as TE/FB (we only used FB on 8% of snaps last season). And don’t sleep on him in the passing game either; he has really sticky hands and doesn’t go down easy after the catch: https://twitter.com/WVUfootball/status/1065660818262581249
If only we could find a way to complete the WVU trio by adding Grier as well…
Derrek Thomas definitely passes the eye test for his frame. Was really looking forward to see him in the drills; not sure why he didn’t participate. Will have to go look at the tape. Zierlein cites “passivity in run support”, so we’ll have to check on that as well.
All in all, a great mock and perfect timing to have the comment delay fixed! Thanks for both!
Thanks so much for this Rob. I keep seeing Hockenson to the Lions, which does make sense, but do you not think they’re scarred by the Eric Ebron experience? I know that was a previous regime, and I suppose Hockenson is a big enough talent to allay those fears.
I think Hockenson is a very different player. I wasn’t a fan of Ebron in the top-10, especially in that draft. I’m all in on Hockenson as an early pick.
Awesome, thank you so much for the responses over the past week!
Once again…
Rich Hill draft chart is probably the best draft chart that you can find on internet at the moment…
Pick 21 is 261 point on that draft chart.
Trade with GB for 30th pick + 75th pick.
30th – 196p
75th – 63p
And then 30th pick for Houston pick 54 + 55.
54 – 104
55 + 101
So we would give 261 point for 268point.
It is 7p diference, wort of 175th pick.
With Rob trade , by Rich Hill draft chart we would give 261p for 240p.
21p is 124thpick.
And both trade makes sense but I think mine is much better for us and it is not unrealistic at all…
Trades don’t always fit the value of a chart though. It’s what you’re willing to do. For example, I think there’s virtually no chance Houston would give up two great picks in a range of supreme value in this class to get into a range where everyone will desperately want to trade down.
I projected the deal I did not because of what a trade value chart suggested, but because Buffalo are a team with extra picks to spend in an area where the Seahawks would like to acquire more (3-5). But they have to take a hit on the value because teams are not going to be rushing to make big trades into the 20’s and 30’s this year.
I understand you completely.
I just want to say I didn’t trade 21st for late first plus second…
I did this trade because it was interesting to me…and by this hill’s draft chart it is not completely off…
And Houston has beeg need for OL and there is a chance there will be great one available at 30 and not at 54 (Ford, Brudberry, Lindstrom)…
And yes, I agree with you that there is little chance Hou would do this trade…
On the other hand I think GB with picks 30 + 75 is most realistic trade partner for Schneider…
It depends on Green Bay. They have two first round picks already and might feel that’s suffice and don’t need to move into a quite unappealing range (the early 20’s). I suspect they will either have to give up some value to move down or they’ll have to chip away. Perhaps be willing to trade down bit by bit collecting day three picks. It’s not what fans want to hear but that’s the draft class. When you’re trying to trade out of a crappy range and acquire picks in a value range, you’re not necessarily going to get great offers.
I cant find right translate for “chip away” :)… does that min trade back with bad value?
It means trading back multiple times in small moves. Going from 21 to 26 for example, then maybe going from 26 to 30 and so on. Not getting big trades involving second or third round picks, but settling for day three value.
Ok, thanks. 🙂
As I said yesterday when posted Zierlein twit, it doesn’t look good for us…
I hope this is the last draft without 2nd or 3rd round picks.
Mocks are made to disagree 😉
Considering Zierleins ratings over at NFL.com, that could be a massive overpay draft haul for the Seahawks, in a season we cannot afford to waste capital.
Marvell Tell has a 5.50 rating, making him #152 (on the big board)
Trysten Hill has a 5.40 rating, making him #197
Trevon Wesco has a 5.27 rating, making him #247
Derrek Thomas has a 4.95 rating
Btw, Will Grier is #182, 5.43 rating.
Picking at #40 would give us Taylor Rapp. IMO, we are a team dependent on having an athletic, high football IQ backfield general, and he will fill that role quite well.
There are a couple of LBs in the R4-range, including Germain Pratt and Jahlani Tavai, having a high floor and ceiling.
Trysten Hill will possibly fall to R5, and would be a sensible selection here.
I think, in R5 or 6, Jordan Miller would be a very good pick at CB. He has to work into a real NFL frame, but he is a long, as tough as you can get press corner.
Finally, I cannot get the Gary Jennings pick that early. IMO, he is a R6 pick. Either McLaurin (makes you happy), or Isabella (makes me happy).
It doesn’t matter what Lance’s grades are. Unless you’re saying he’s graded every player in the draft correctly or that his entire board is aligned with what the Seahawks think.
If Lance had graded Bruce Irvin in round three like a lot of people in 2012, would it have been preposterous to mock him to Seattle in round one? No doubt that’s what you’d say. But you’d be wrong.
I like and respect Lance but his board is just a general opinion on the players in this class. My mock is based specifically on what the Seahawks look for, considering the types of players they draft and in a range where they take them. It doesn’t mean I’m going to be right. It’s a mock. They’re hardly ever right. But a year ago I was projecting Tre Flowers in round five as a corner convert. Not because Lance or anyone else said so, because I’ve been doing this for 10 years and have an idea on what the Seahawks go for.
And I will never, ever, ever do a mock draft based on what someone else’s perception of value is. If you just want grades and opinions, there are tons of websites who provide that. This is a Seahawks Draft Blog where we get into specifics with this team. We don’t do bland rankings pieces and speak generally about a draft class. We get into what the Seahawks might do.
For what it’s worth, I’m willing to bet Trysten Hill isn’t there in the fifth. I’m willing to bet that Germain Pratt isn’t a fourth rounder too.
People bring up Isabella but the Seahawks haven’t shown even remote interest in players like that in the past. Jennings — with his combination of speed, frame, character, grit, ability to compete for the ball and production is exactly the type of player they draft in round four.
Have to be honest, I’m really not sold on the idea of Miller as the first pick. I like his frame, he had some decent production and seems to love the game, but I just can’t tell what he does really well. Seems like a Jack of all trades, master of none type to me and that doesn’t strike me as the kind of high ceiling they go for with the first pick. Give me Allen, Tillery or Deebo from the players you have left any day.
I absolutely love the rest of this draft though, especially Hill and Tell (who couldn’t scream Seahawks corner convert more if he tried.)
Miller bends the edge really really well and has exceptional length to do it. That’s his standout trait IMO. And then on top of that he is disciplined in run defense and high character/perfectionist in his craft. And his ceiling is super high, he’s just battled a lot of injuries that have slowed him up in reaching it.
Allen is solid vs. the run, but doesn’t offer much at all coming off the edge, and he had a poor Sr. Bowl. Though he did test well at the combine. So we’ll have to ask why it doesn’t always show up in his game.
Tillery is similar in some respects to McDowell athletically, but runs too hot/cold for my liking.
I like Deebo.
Miller is Leo right?
Personally I haven’t seen too much stand out bend from Miller, could be wrong though I’ll re-watch some tape with that in mind.
I’m going to have to strongly disagree on Allen not offering much pass rush of the edge. I think for guy his size he’s fantastic at it frankly. Uses his hands like a vet and doesn’t waste any movement, just a really nuanced pass rusher for a guy in college. Imo the only reason he didn’t have more sacks in college is because he was constantly getting held. I’m not sure what happened during the senior bowl, but based off his tape and combine numbers I think he’s one of the most undervalued players in this class.
Deebo is great isn’t he 😛
I agree somewhat, for our first pick you need(really want) them to be productive right off the bat, Miller seems an expensive piece that we could only use on 3rd downs.
Not many of Seattle’s first picks are major impact starters.
Miller is a nice player but I would prefer to wait on LB. We essentially played with 2 legit starting LBs last year and the defense was good enough to get us to the playoffs, even with all the new pieces. With all the dime and nickle packages, OLB seems a bit antiquated in modern NFL.
I’d rather prioritize a true edge, DT, WR, OT.
Love the look of this haul for Seattle, Rob.
This is probably the ideal draft for Seattle to try to climb back on top of the division in 2019, especially with those first three picks. I really like the idea that Seattle might avoid drafting a QB this year, actually, because I think it’s something that could happen again.
I think that is the right place to look at Trysten Hill. I could see a team with a more of an attacking style defense take him higher, but for Carroll’s two gap scheme, that’s a good spot there.
So when you compare Miller with KJ, are you considering the potential he could convert to an off ball backer, or a SAM?
I think he’s a EDGE pass rusher, he’s essentially Jacob Martin with more power in my mind. He’s way better at sealing the edge but not really good in coverage.
I remember JS saying something like they were lucky to have somebody want to trade up to #18 last year and he would have picked Penny at #18 if no trade happened. If that’s the case then we can’t just assume they will always have a trade partner to move back in the first round.
If they can’t find a partner I’m all in on P. Campbell at #21 if he’s still available. If not:
– Jeffrey Simmons
– Christian Wilkins
– Irv Smith Jr.
Well nothing is certain but I don’t envisage any scenario where they pick at #21. They have four picks. Even if they move down three spots for a sixth they’ll probably do it.
True.
I don’t disagree that the Hawks would do that, but I do wonder if it’s the ‘right’ move.
In the last 5 years, here are our 6th round picks:
2014: Garrett Scott, Eric Pinkins
2015: Obum Gwachum, Kristian Sokoli
2016: Joey Hunt
2017: Mike Tyson, Justion Senior
2018: Jake Martin
2-4 spots away from our original pick however (which we always traded):
2013: DeAndre Hopkins (2 picks later)
2014: Demarcus Lawrence (2 picks later)
2015: Landon Collins (2 picks later)
2017: TJ Watt (4 picks later)
2018: Leighton Vander Esch: (next pick)
I agree with you Rob, that I don’t think the Hawks will change the way they do things… but sometimes, I wish they would.
As someone who really rated Hopkins, Lawrence, Watt and Vander Esch I hear you. But I also appreciate that this team has done its best work later on. And a lot of teams would love Seattle’s record after R1.
Feel the same DCD2. They have a way of drafting, Rob has done a great job of documenting that over the years. I wish they would do a little more introspection because what they have done in the earlier rounds going back to 2013 has been objectively not that good. JS says that self scouting and reflection are a huge part of their process but it seems a little more like words rather than practice.
I’m not sure this is entirely fair though. Trading for Percy and Graham didn’t work but the thought process made sense. A year ago they had to trade down — they couldn’t draft LVE and not pick again until R4.
I think it’s fair to say they haven’t had drafted very well in the early rounds going back to 2013.
If we’re saying early rounds (plural) I disagree. In 2015 their first two picks were Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett. That’s a home run. In 2014 they found a long term starting O-liner in Justin Britt (hard to find guys that play that long these days) and a receiver who has had a solid career in Paul Richardson. They drafted Jarran Reed in 2016 who has been a superb pick. Germain Ifedi showed positive growth last year too. 2017 was a bust. But overall that’s not bad at all.
Thank you Rob for all of the time you put in this blog. It is hands down the best Seahawks blog. I visit every day hoping for more content. I always anticipate the draft just to see if the Hawks draft the players you single out every year. This year I hope the Hawks draft Alec Ingold FB. I think he is exactly what our run game needs. Go Hawks!
Ingold would be a good addition IMO. They’ve needed a full back.
It’s an interesting mock for the hawks Rob. I guess once free agency has settled, then we’ll have fuller handle on the direction of the draft.
Pete did mention that it was a priority to stop explosive plays, in particular on run defense, prevent 3rd and long conversions, and applying more pressure upon the opposing QB.
Even with your well orchestrated mock, there is still a need to shore up the middle against the run, and an outside edge @ 260-65 lbs as a compliment to Clark. Is this something that you think realistically could be from free agency?
As you know, there are (2) players that have been on my radar. One is currently being shopped by Miami, Robert Quinn. Not many may be willing to take on the $11 mil that is in the last year of his contract. Unless he’s allowed to negotiate a new contract with the prospective trade partner. If not, then he probably will be released. I hope JS does due diligence in behalf of Mr. Quinn, he would be an ideal fit, opposite of Clark.
The other hopeful FA pick up is Brent Urban. I still haven’t heard about his status. But, it would be a 1-2mil/yr investment with a low risk but high reward type signing, that will help stop the run, and apply pressure up the middle.
Robert Quinn might be a great fit.
I’m not interested in Quinn because he’s past his best and two teams have moved him on in two years. I loved Urban in college but I can’t trust his long list of serious injuries.
Robert Quinn, who was shipped to the Miami Dolphins for a mid-round draft pick in a cost-saving move. The Finns are also moving him for cap cost saving as well. He is still a force to be reckoned with.
He has averaged 7.5 sacks the past (2) seasons, in which he has missed just (1) game. While with the Rams in 2017, he was playing as an OLB in their 3-4 defense, not DE, which is his natural position. Paying Quinn DE money for an OLB position prompted the Rams in feeling it was best served to place his money elsewhere. Hence, the trade to Miami.
Miami is again going to a NE 3-4 type defense, that is not best suited for Quinn’s skills. They are rebuilding and are trying to get value from a player that is still very talented, by attempting to find a trade partner.
These circumstances are far different than saying he’s past his best. There’s still enough in the tank for JS to perform due diligence on his capabilities, rather than dismissively saying he’s past his prime. How many players consistently have 19 sacks/yr? That was just 5 seasons ago. He is only 28 yrs old. He has a wealth of experience that would be invaluable for this young DL. Also, it would be fun to see what happens to Whitworth, when Quinn is lined up against him. That would just add fuel to his fire to play the Rams (2-3) times/yr.
2018, he played all 16 games with 38 combined tackles, 25 solo, 13 assist, 9 tackles for a loss 15 QB hits.
Trey Flowers just had a career high of 7.5 sacks and he is being highly coveted. Quinn will definitely receive inquiry. Hopefully, it is by JS/PC & company.
Wall Up — I think we’ve got the message on Robert Quinn now. You want him. Some of us disagree. We’ve established that.
@Rob and Seahawks community,
Will it be challenge for JS to find good trade partner as other teams know Hawks are desperate to move down? I hope there are some players are still on board for which other team fight for Hawks get multiple calls from team. May be QB, DT or OT.
It will be a challenge but last year was a similar situation. They had #18 and nothing until round four. But they found a deal.
I can’t seem to find anywhere a date for the Miami Hurricane’s pro-day. Anybody seen it?
KC and Philly both have 2 picks late in Rd #2 plus multiple comp picks and are in win now mode.
If either of those teams identify a player at #21 that they think might get them over the hump they could be potential trade partners.
Would a deal like this make sense for the Hawks
Seattle Trades #21 to KC for #61 and #63 in Rd 2 + a 4th Rd Comp Pick #131 and 6th Rd Comp Pick #211
That would leave Seattle with.
#61
#63
#84
#124
#131
#159
#211
Would suck to have to wait till #61 to pick but if they want to have 7-8 picks then their options might not be great.
I can’t see a team giving up two second round picks in this draft.
Perhaps not but they would be moving up almost 40 spots.
I don’t see why they would want to do that
They are likely to loose Justin Houston and are possibly looking to trade Dee Ford. if they do and there is a pass rusher on the board Burns they may not want to risk him making it to #29. Then they can use #29 on the best DB available which they so badly need.
This team is a Super Bowl contender. They might prefer 2 guys who can come in and make an impact rather than a couple of depth players / future starters at the end of Rd #2.
There are other means of solving that issue without giving up great value picks.
Using the trade Rob suggests. If Seattle extend Clark and sign and Edge Rusher in Free Agency
#40 (R2) — Terry Mclaurin (WR / Ohio St) Perfect fit for the Hawks as a WR who can get separation. Replacement for Baldwin down the line and immediate special teams value as an elite gunner.
#74 (R3) — Trysten Hill (DT, UCF)- You have me sold Rob. The Griffins should have some good insight into this guy as well. If he is a VMAC visitor he could well be the guy.
#84 (R3) — Marvell Tell (DB, USC)- Love his agility #s and think Pete could turn him into an elite slot CB to replace Coleman. Should also be good in run support as a former Safety.
#124 (R4) — Justin Hollins (Edge, Oregon) -Seems like an ideal physical profile for the Bruce Irvin type role. I was impressed with how he played the run and set an edge as well. Lets the Hawks move on from Mingo if they choose and has some pass rush upside.
#131 (R4) — Foster Moreau (TE/LSU)- Wore #18 at LSU so obviously a great character guy. Shows as a good blocker on tape and has the physical profile to develop into an pass catching target.
#158 (R5) — Drew Lewis (LB / Col)- The Hawks will likely add LB depth later in the Draft and he looks like a really solid athlete to come on and compete as well as provide special teams value.
#159 (R5) — Alec Ingold (FB / Wisc)- Really hope the Hawks go out and get a true full back if they want to be a power run team and Ingold just seems like an ideal fit.
It seems with this draft there is not a lot of really top end talent but tons of depth at some positions. Does that mean that there could be some good UDFA options at positions like DT, TE and WR? If so then I hope PC / JS get back in heavy recruitment mode. With only 4 draft picks UDFAs should view the Hawks as a great potential landing spot. Last year they picked up Poona Ford and that is looking like a steal now.
Dexter Lawrence does not seem to be getting much hype at all and I really don’t understand it. I know perceived run stuffers don’t have the value they once did in todays pass happy NFL but guys like Lawrence simply don’t come around very often.
He is every bit the freak athlete that Sweat and Metcalfe are.
When was the last time a guy came into the league that had this profile.
21 yrs old
6-4
345lbs
34.5″ arms
10.5 ” hands
36 reps bench
5.05 40yd Dash
Vita Vea was a similar freak athlete for a guy at 340lbs + but he did not have Lawrence’s length or movement skills.
If he somehow fell to #21 I really hope PC/ JS would consider making that pick. A DT rotation of Reed, Poona and Lawrence would be really young and one of the best in the NFL.
We know Pete wants to run the ball and stop the run. Last year the stopping the run was missing. Lawrence would go a long way to fixing the run D. I assure you Bobby Wagner would be a happy camper.
I guess it comes down to whether you would prefer one potentially elite player to 3 potentially solid players. Would you sooner have Lawrence or as Rob outlined in his Mock (Christian Miller, Trysten Hill and Dru Samia)? In the past the Hawks under PC / JS have always chose option B and taken the extra picks trading down and it is highly likely they will again. It is likely a team like Mia as Rob predicted will take him anyways but if not it could be interesting.
I agree. Little buzz around that guy. Feel like some pundits are adverse to including several guys from the same unit in the same round.
Last person with that profile maybe Dontari Poe? Ran in the 4.9s at almost 350
And Poe only fit 3-4 fronts. It’s early for him, but Vea needs to learn that he can’t just overpower blockers or use his brute strength in the NFL. He struggled with that.
Just my 2 cents, but I kinda think Lawrence is scheme specific.
1st round run stuffer is pricey that’s how we got Reed. I think they will only draft a 1st round DT or early 2nd round DT if he can provide sacks. I like Poe as long as his back problem is fixed it will allow us to move Reed to 3 tech and draft a middle round 3 tech.
I think he might be realistically the only guy we’d consider taking at 21 if he fell
But then again, I tend to think we have a greater need at OLB / LEO than DT
He won’t stop them from trading down. This has been discussed to death.
This is really the catch 22 of anyone who ‘falls’ to us. We want a great player to drop to #21 so that we can have trade options with teams who really want that guy. At the same time, we have to pass on that guy knowing that he could be fantastic.
Yeah I really dont get the logic behind absolutely having to trade down to pick up addition mid round picks. We have a young roster that Pete thinks doesnt have any biog holes.
We also have Dissly and Jemarco Jones basically coming back as red-shirt rookies.
If a potential star is there at 21 like Lawrence I don’t understand why they still “absolutely have to trade back”.
Rd #1 Dexter Lawrence
Rd #3 Marvel Tell
Rd #4 Justin Hollins
Rd #5 Foster Moreau
+ Jemarco Jones
+ Will Dissly
+UDFA Rookies
I personally would be more than happy with that.
Then next year look for a WR early.
Pete said they didn’t have any glaring holes. He didn’t say they had good depth.
They need competition at various positions. What they don’t have is ‘one’ position they absolutely have to address or they’ll struggle. He’s practically making a case for trading down. Because they need competition at several positions. They have the general pieces needed to contend (eg QB, LT, DE, running game, stud LB).
Dexter Lawrence probably won’t be there at #21 anyway. But we all know by now the strength of this draft is in the middle rounds not anything at #21. You’re not winning a Super Bowl next year based on who’s at #21.
While I tend to lean more towards your position Trevor, I think we already know how it will play out. IF they had all 7 picks and 3-4 comp picks this year, then MAYBE they wouldn’t trade down. With our limited selections, we most certainly will though.
One thing that I don’t really agree with Rob on, is that I think taking top end (1st round) talent would help our chances at a SB more than a 2nd rounder and a 4th (or whatever the value we get is). Suh, Von Miller, Kuechly, Richardson, Aaron Donald, Marcus Peters, Bosa, Lattimore… All of those guys have two things in common.
1. They all won defensive rookie of the year
2. They were all taken in the 1st round
3. They were all drafted much, much higher than the Seahawks have picked in years:
Suh and Von Miller — #2 overall
Kuechly — #9 overall
Aaron Donald — #13 overall
Joey Bosa — #3 overall
Marshon Lattimore — #11 overall
Sheldon Richardson — #13 overall
Seattle doesn’t have a top-ten pick in 2019.
I see your point, quality > quantity.
However, despite what Pete says, there is one ‘glaring hole:’ LB. Wagner is currently on his last year of his contract while Wright and Kendricks are UFA.
The Seahawks will need more picks to secure some LB depth.
Rob, do you see Shaquill Griffin as a candidate for the slot corner position if the Seahawks draft Tell or another of the tantalizingly sized DB’s in this draft?
And thank you so very much for sharing your wonderful insights. Your website is greatly appreciated. Your logic is spot on. You rock!!!
I think Shaquille stays outside
Do the players getting cut today factor in comp picks?
I believe that comp picks are only for players that you lose in free agency. Cut players don’t count.
No
Although the more of these guys that get released increases the odds that a couple call through the cracks, and that’s when Seattle will pounce.
Cleveland just traded Kevin Zeitler and a 4th to NYG for Oliver Vernon and a 5th. Steep. I wish the NFL would do more player for player trades like this and Champ Bailey-Clinton Portis.
Got the draft picks mixed up. The fourth is heading to Cleveland while the Giants get a fifth.
Thanks
Why didn’t my comments about Le’Veon Bell acquisition post?
Because you’d already posted about it and I don’t want the comments section dominated by a suggestion that we all know won’t happen. The last player they’re signing is Bell.
Yeah, and go to your room. With no dinner.
Eh?
T.J. Lang was dropped by the Lions. I remember people were pissed that Detroit outbid us for him a couple years ago. Interesting to see how that panned out. I wonder if he’ll consider us again, and if he’d work in a rotation with Sweez and Fluker (assuming they’re back as well).
Looks like 2017 OL FA’s was a mess for everyone!
Reports that Michael Bennett is getting dealt to the Pats with a 7th for a 5th (rumored)…
Makes me jealous on both sides. Philly getting draft capital for a guy they would drop and NE getting an impact player for next to nothing.
https://twitter.com/Jeff_McLane/status/1104112243409588224
These are 2020 picks though.
Last time I checked Bennett is under criminal investigation for assaulting a lady in a wheelchair after the Super Bowl in Houston. If it goes bad it should be the end of Bennett’s career. Best case scenario the DA decides to drop the criminal charges and Bennett settles in the civil lawsuit. The DA in Houston said their going after Bennett and I’m sure the Las Vegas fiasco doesn’t help. It could be a major issue or could be a nothing burger.
Never wanted Bennett and his declining play and locker room issues back on this team ever again so I don’t care who he goes to. That ship sailed after 2017.
the tentative mock I put together was basically these positions but with Jaylon ferguson isntead of Miller. Same slot for Hill, and I really want Derrick Thomas… Also would love a flyer pick on Jalen hurd as a WR project but thats jsut me.
Love it.
Rob, what do you think of Paxton Lynch as a backup with upside
Obviously it doesnt sway the negotiations w Russ nor does it inspire confidence for the future, but I really liked him coming out. He was never really the best fit for Denver imo and I doubt he’s a good fit for our current scheme, but he’s always been all potential even when he couldnt win the starting job w the Broncos.
Big and mobile with a decent velocity on his throws.
Is this a reclamation project or simply a case of grabbing the best stopgap backup available.
Really fascinating to me that Austin Davis is on staff as a coach now-
I’m content and happy he is getting a second chance. I liked him a lot at Memphis. It didn’t work at Denver. Hopefully a new environment does him good.
Drew Lewis is a stud. I am glad he’s getting some looks. He fits the Seahawks athletic profile, has the pedigree and football IQ.