Workout schedule
» Friday, March 1st: special teams, running backs, offensive linemen
» Saturday, March 2nd: quarterbacks, wide receivers, tight ends
» Sunday, March 3rd: defensive linemen, linebackers
» Monday, March 4th: defensive backs
Groups 1-3 (PK, ST, OL, RB)
Arrival: Tuesday
Measurements: Wednesday
Bench press: Thursday
On-field drills: Friday
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Kaleb McGary was a stand-out performer at the Senior Bowl
Offensive linemen
For the last few years we’ve used a formula called TEF to measure explosive physical traits. It proved to be an accurate way of predicting which offensive linemen the Seahawks might be targeting. In light of Tom Cable’s departure after the 2017 season (due to his influence on the system) it’s unclear if it’ll be quite as useful in the future. Either way, it’s still a good way to compare the offensive and defensive linemen and measure explosive physical traits.
Why are they important? Pat Kirwan — a confidant of Pete Carroll — tells us why in this piece:
Every time a ball is snapped to start a play there is a critical element of explosiveness that takes place. When two players collide in an attempt to physically dominate each other, the athlete with the edge in explosiveness has the best chance to win the confrontation. It could be a blocker vs. a tackler, a tackler vs. a ball carrier, or many other examples of winning at the point of contact.
Explosiveness is defined in the dictionary as a violent release of energy, a sudden outburst. Football is a series of explosions. How do you measure it in athletes trying to play NFL football?
Take the vertical jump, standing broad jump and the bench press test results and add them together. If the combined score is over 70 there is a reason to consider the candidate at some point in the draft process for his explosiveness.
Kirwan’s formula is flawed because it diminishes the impact of the broad jump. A superb 9-7 only achieves a 1.2 point advantage over a below par 8-5. That’s why TEF was created — to do what Kirwan intended and measure explosive traits equally and emphasise their combined importance.
TEF is not an attempt to determine who is a good or bad offensive linemen. It’s merely a calculation to judge explosive traits. And while that’s only one part of any evaluation — it’s still a vital part of analysing a prospect or draft class. A year ago, seven offensive linemen scored an optimal 3.00 or higher in TEF. Of the seven, Quenton Nelson and Kolton Miller were both high first round picks. Braden Smith, Connor Williams and Will Hernandez were second round picks.
For more on TEF, including a breakdown of the calculation, click here.
Key tests
Vertical, Broad, Bench
Ideal size
6-3/6-5, 305-320lbs, 35 inch arms, +31 inch vertical, +9’ broad, +30 bench reps
Interesting note
For a long time we’ve been discussing the league-wide problem of the athletic discrepancy between college O-lines and D-lines. At the last three combines there were a total of 78 ‘explosive’ defensive linemen (explosive = a score of 3.00 or higher). In comparison, there were only 16 explosive offensive linemen. This is a big problem for the NFL. Those numbers will likely be even more skewed after the 2019 combine due to the strength of the D-line class.
The best drill to watch
The mirror drill. Two linemen stand opposite each other, with one acting as ‘the rabbit’. He’ll move around and change direction and it’s up to the participant to stick. It’s an important test of footwork, agility, mobility, balance, control and stamina. It’s also a good gauge of pass protection skills. Germain Ifedi boosted his stock in 2016 when he performed well in this drill working opposite Laremy Tunsil.
Five names to watch
Chuma Edoga (T, USC), Kaleb McGary (T, Washington), Chris Lindstrom (G, Boston College), Yodny Cajuste (T, West Virginia), Andre Dillard (T, Washington State)
Positional notes
There isn’t an offensive tackle worthy of a top-five pick. Just like a year ago, we could see the perceived ‘best’ lineman go early (Mike McGlinchey was the #10 pick). The favourite at the moment is Jawaan Taylor at Florida although Andre Dillard at Washington State could jump to OT1 with a good combine. Day two (rounds 2-3) should provide plenty of O-line value with a cluster of good guards and athletic tackles likely to be available.
Importance to the Seahawks
Much depends on the future of D.J. Fluker and J.R. Sweezy — both free agents. Germain Ifedi and George Fant are also free agents in 2020. An O-line pick is very possible at some stage.
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Rodney Anderson is the forgotten man of this draft class
Running backs
The Seahawks have a type at running back. They’ve consistently drafted players with a similar physical profile. It’s made it fairly straight forward to figure out who they might like. Here are the players we identified from the 2016, 2017 and 2018 combines as probable targets:
2016:
C.J. Prosise — 6-0, 220lbs, 35.5 inch vert, 10-1 broad
Kenneth Dixon — 5-10, 215lbs, 37.5 inch vert, 10-8 broad
2017:
Christopher Carson — 6-0, 218lbs, 37 inch vert, 10-10 broad
Brian Hill — 6-0, 219lbs, 34 inch vert, 10-5 broad
Alvin Kamara — 5-10, 214lbs, 39.5 inch vert, 10-11 broad
Joe Williams — 5-11, 210lbs, 35 inch vert, 10-5 broad
2018:
Saquon Barkley — 6-0, 233lbs, 41 inch vert DNP broad
Kerryon Johnson — 511, 213lbs 40 inch vert, 10-6 broad
Bo Scarborough — 6-0, 228lbs, 40 inch vert, 10-9 broad
Nick Chubb — 5-11, 227lbs, 38.5 inch vert, 10-8 broad
John Kelly — 5-10, 216lbs, 35 inch vert, 10-0 broad
Lavon Coleman — 5-10, 223lbs, 33 inch vert, 10-0 broad
Rashaad Penny — 5-11, 220lbs, 32.5 inch vert, 10-0 broad
Royce Freeman — 5-11, 229lbs, 34 inch vert, 9-10 broad
They drafted Prosise, Carson and Penny. They eventually added Bo Scarborough during the season. There are a lot more names in the 2018 list because it was such a strong running back class. Usually their ‘type’ at running back is in relatively short supply. That wasn’t the case a year ago.
The Seahawks might not draft another running back this year but we should be able to identify which players they’ll like.
Key tests
Vertical, Broad
Ideal size
5-11, 220lbs, +36 inch vertical, +10 broad
Interesting note
The Seahawks preferred explosive traits over straight line speed prior to the 2018 draft. Christine Michael (4.54), C.J. Prosise (4.48), Robert Turbin (4.50) and Chris Carson (4.58) were explosive rather than fast. Rashaad Penny wasn’t quite as explosive but ran a 4.46. It’s probably not a major shift in terms of the type of player they like but it’s still worth noting.
The best drill to watch
The footage will be limited but absolutely it’s the coverage of the vertical and broad jump. Explosive traits are key. It’s nice to see the running backs cutting against pads while showing body control and quickness in the open field. Explosive power and the ability to run through contact is vital at the next level, however.
Five names to watch
Damien Harris (RB, Alabama), Josh Jacobs (RB, Alabama), Rodney Anderson (RB, Oklahoma), Ryquell Armstead (RB, Temple), Mike Weber (RB, Ohio State)
Positional notes
How many players fit Seattle’s prototype? That’s really the only question that matters. The Seahawks haven’t really strayed and gone after smaller, niche running backs. They like explosive power and physicality. Damien Harris and Rodney Anderson are former SPARQ stars and fit the size profile too. Mike Weber at Ohio State is expected to test well. Anderson likely would’ve been a top-25 pick had he not suffered a knee injury during the season. There’s nowhere near the positional depth we saw a year ago but there should be nice options in days 2-3.
Importance to the Seahawks
A year ago I wrote, “simply put, they have to tap into this running back class“. That’s not the case in 2019. The only question mark is whether they keep Mike Davis. If they do, they’re loaded at the position and might ignore it altogether. That said, they still drafted Christine Michael and Robert Turbin with a healthy Marshawn Lynch on the roster. Pete Carroll collected 5-star runners at USC. So if the right player is available, they could strike.
Groups 4-6 (QB, WR, TE)
Arrival: Wednesday
Measurements: Thursday
Bench press: Friday
On-field drills: Saturday
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Will Grier’s deep accuracy could interest the Seahawks
Quarterbacks
For the last few years we haven’t had to pay much attention to the quarterbacks. This year is different. With Russell Wilson’s contract situation set to dominate the headlines this off-season (and possibly beyond) — there’s a distinct possibility they’ll draft a QB. They have to start planning ahead. This is going to be an extremely difficult and aggressive negotiation. Preparing for the worst-case scenario — life without Wilson — is essential.
It’s difficult to work out who they might be interested in. After all, look at the starting QB’s Pete Carroll has used so far — Matt Hasselbeck, Tarvaris Jackson, Charlie Whitehurst and Russell Wilson. There’s very little consistency there.
Downfield throwing seems to be vital though. We know Carroll values explosive plays. Wilson in particular is an exceptional downfield thrower. Whitehurst struggled in Seattle but had the arm strength. That’s likely what convinced them to spend a third round pick to acquire him in 2010.
In this draft the two best downfield passers are clear — Kyler Murray at Oklahoma and Will Grier at West Virginia. Drew Lock and Jarrett Stidham might have stronger arms but Murray was a surgeon throwing deep in 2018 as he won the Heisman. Here’s what PFF noted about Grier’s performance last season:
Grier was once again tremendous for the Mountaineers in 2018, finishing the year as the nation’s third-highest graded quarterback. He let it rip with the best of them, sprinkling in deep shots with great accuracy just as quick as he’d hit a crosser over the middle or perfectly lead his targets away from coverage with relative ease. In total, he averaged the fourth-highest yards per attempt at 9.7 while throwing more deep pass touchdowns than any other FBS QB with 20. He goes down as arguably the best deep-ball thrower over the past two seasons as he’s thrown for more yards (2,850), more touchdowns (36) and more big-time throws (54) on passes targeted at least 20 yards downfield than any other quarterback since 2017.
Grier does lose velocity on some deep throws due to suspect mechanics. It’ll be interesting to see how he throws downfield at the combine.
Key tests
Deep throws
Ideal size
+6-1, 220lbs, +9.5 inch hands
Interesting note
The Seahawks have only drafted two quarterbacks in the Pete Carroll era — Russell Wilson (third round, 2012) and Alex McGough (seventh round, 2018).
The best drill to watch
Everyone wants to see the top QB’s throw the deep ball. That’s basically why they’re there apart from the medicals and interviews. They’re not facing a defense. They’re just standing in shorts and throwing the football. The only real reason to watch the drills is to see which players stand out throwing downfield with power and precision with reasonable mechanics.
Five names to watch
Will Grier (QB, West Virginia), Kyler Murray (QB, Oklahoma), Jarrett Stidham (QB, Auburn), Ryan Finley (QB, NC State), Drew Lock (QB, Missouri)
Positional notes
Kyler Murray, for me, is the most talented player in the entire draft and a worthy selection with the #1 overall pick. After that, the chances are teams will over-draft Dwayne Haskins and Drew Lock in the top-15. Both are talented players but appear to be a significant notch below Murray and the top four from 2018 (Darnold, Allen, Mayfield, Rosen). Will Grier, Daniel Jones and Ryan Finley will likely be drafted in the top-100 picks. It’s not a horrendous quarterback class but it lacks the kind of clear top-10 talents that defined the 2018 group.
Importance to the Seahawks
Not everyone will agree but it’s of massive importance. If you actually sit down and properly consider the dilemma over Wilson’s contract, it’s a no-brainer to consider drafting a quarterback early this year. That doesn’t mean you take any player for the sake of it. You have to clearly identify a player you believe can be a future starter. In Murray and Grier, there are two candidates who fit Seattle in terms of their ability to throw downfield and produce in a big way in college. They might not draft a QB with their top pick in 2019 but they could spend a day two pick on the position as insurance for the future.
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If D.K. Metcalf lasts due to his neck injury, the Seahawks could be interested
Wide receivers
Pete Carroll has only drafted two receivers who haven’t run a 4.4 forty or faster (Kenny Lawler 4.64, Chris Harper 4.50). Paul Richardson (4.40), Golden Tate (4.42), Tyler Lockett (4.40), Kris Durham (4.46), Kevin Norwood (4.48), Amara Darboh (4.45) and David Moore (4.42) all cracked the 4.4’s. Kris Durham (216lbs), Chris Harper (229lbs), Kenny Lawler (203lbs), Amara Darboh (214lbs) and David Moore (219lbs) were all +200lbs. Richardson, Tate and Lockett — the three most productive players — were smaller.
This really tells us two things. One — the Seahawks value speed and suddenness at the position even if you’re a ‘bigger’ receiver. Two — they’ve had greater success with smaller receivers since drafting Russell Wilson.
The entire NFL is seeing a shift towards speed and suddenness over pure size. The 2019 draft class is rich in players with great size who struggle to separate. You’ll have seen plenty of mock drafts listing N’Keal Harry, Kelvin Harmon and Hakeem Butler in the top-50. None of the three create consistent separation and rely on contested catches. That’s fine in college but at the next level against superior defensive backs you win fewer of those battles. The ability to separate is vital. Watch the forty, the 10-yard split, the three-cone and short shuttle. It’ll provide a clear indication on which players have the quickness and agility to create openings.
Interesting note
Carroll’s Seahawks don’t really have a ‘range’ where they take receivers. They’ve drafted two players in round two (Richardson, Tate), two in round three (Darboh, Lockett), three in round four (Norwood, Harper, Durham) and two in round seven (Moore, Lawler). They traded a first round pick for Percy Harvin. They’ve also had a degree of success with UDFA’s. The best non-FA athlete Seattle has acquired in the Carroll era was an UDFA — Ricardo Lockette. He ran a 4.41, had a 39-inch vertical and a 6.76 three-cone. He was also well-sized at 211lbs with 33.5-inch arms. The Seahawks have been comfortable bringing in high-ceiling UDFA receivers, finding success with Lockette, Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse.
Key test
Forty, 10-yard split, catching drills (proper technique)
Ideal size
6-1, 210lbs, 4.45 forty
The best drill to watch
Any drill that clearly shows the receiver’s catching technique. It’s extremely important. You want to see a wide out cupping his hands while presenting them to the ball. No alligator arms, no fighting the ball or snatching at it. Watch the downfield throws too and see who is good at high pointing the football, showing body control. Who is a natural hands catcher?
Five names to watch
D.K. Metcalf (WR, Ole Miss), Parris Campbell (WR, Ohio State), Terry McLaurin (WR, Ohio State), Gary Jennings (WR, West Virginia), Emmanuel Hall (WR, Missouri)
Positional assessment
There isn’t a clear top-10 pick among the group but there’s nice depth overall. D.K. Metcalf has the physical profile to blow-up the combine but there are concerns about his WWE body and serious neck injury sustained at Ole Miss. Parris Campbell and Terry McLaurin will have amazing workouts. Marquise Brown sadly won’t perform due to a lisfranc injury. Deebo Samuel had a terrific Senior Bowl but needs to allay some concerns about his actual speed. Emmanuel Hall is a burner and he’s not the only one. It’s a shame the league has banned Preston Williams from competing. Perhaps the most intriguing thing with this group is the number of ‘big’ receivers. The ones who manage to run well (4.4’s preferably) will seriously help their stock.
Importance to the Seahawks
Seattle currently has Doug Baldwin (free agent after 2020), Tyler Lockett, Jaron Brown and Malik Turner under contract for 2019. David Moore is an exclusive rights free agent and the likes of Amara Darboh, Keenan Reynolds and Caleb Scott could be retained. It feels like they need one more quality target. Pete Carroll has often talked about landing a dynamic big receiver. This is a class full of big receivers. If any run in the 4.4’s — put them on the radar. Likewise, who are the sudden and speedy wide outs who can separate and get downfield to make explosive plays?
T.J. Hockenson — the best offensive player in the draft after Kyler Murray
Tight ends
Seattle has drafted four tight ends under Pete Carroll — Nick Vannett, Luke Willson, Anthony McCoy and Will Dissly. Vannett and Dissly (the two remaining) were both considered throw-back Y-TE’s who can block. Willson ran a 4.51 at his pro-day with a 38-inch vertical. McCoy ran a 4.78 but was familiar with Carroll and had great size. All four players are quite different.
This is one of the more unpredictable positions to judge for Seattle. They tried to turn Jimmy Graham into the ‘complete tight end’ but settled on making him a red zone machine in 2017. It feels like the Graham experience provided a lesson of sorts. The Dissly pick suggests they’ll stick to players more in the mould of Zach Miller than Jimmy Graham and that style fits Seattle’s preferred offensive identity (which they regained in 2018).
It appears the Seahawks view the short shuttle as an important drill:
Luke Willson — 4.29 at pro-day
Will Dissly — 4.40 (8th best in 2018)
Nick Vannett — 4.20 (2nd best in 2016)
Anthony McCoy — 4.57
Zach Miller — 4.42
Jimmy Graham — 4.45
It was suggested they really liked O.J. Howard. He had the top short shuttle in 2017 (4.16). He was also an excellent blocker to go with his high level of athleticism. So any player who blocks well and runs a good short-shuttle could be on their radar.
Key test
Vertical, Broad, Short shuttle
Ideal size
6-5, 250-265lbs, +34-inch arms, +10-inch hands
Interesting note
In 2010 when Jimmy Graham was drafted in round three by the Saints — the following players left the board between pick #95 and Seattle’s next pick at #111: Everson Griffen, Alterraun Verner, Darrell Stuckey and Geno Atkins. The Seahawks took Kam Chancellor at #133. Reshad Jones (#163) and Antonio Brown (#195) were also day three picks. The 2010 draft had some depth.
Best drill to watch
Like the receivers, check out the catching technique. Is he cupping his hands and showing to the football, or is he fighting the ball?
Five names to watch
T.J. Hockenson (TE, Iowa), Drew Sample (TE, Washington), Noah Fant (TE, Iowa), Kaden Smith (TE, Stanford), Trevon Wesco (TE, West Virginia)
Positional assessment
T.J. Hockenson appears destined to be a top-10 pick and could be drafted by Jacksonville (#7), Detroit (#8), Buffalo (#9) or Denver (#10). For me he’s the second best offensive player in the class after Kyler Murray. There’s a big drop after Hockenson but as with the receiver and O-line units — there’s depth and value to be had on days 2-3. You’ve also got a good mix of blocking TE’s like Drew Sample and Trevon Wesco mixed in with some athletes and ‘big slot receivers’. There’s a bit of everything in this group.
Importance to the Seahawks?
It could go either way. Will Dissly is recovering from a very serious knee injury and Nick Vannett is a free agent after the 2019 season. Ed Dickson is a veteran stop-gap. Are they comfortable rolling with this trio — especially seeing as the TE position in 2018 turned into George Fant acting as a sixth offensive lineman? Or do they need to add another TE to provide insurance against Dissly’s injury, Dickson’s injury history and Vannett’s expiring contract?
Groups 7-9 (DL, LB)
Arrival: Thursday
Measurements: Friday
Bench press: Saturday
On-field drills: Sunday
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Can TCU’s L.J. Collier boost his stock at the combine?
Defensive line
The Seahawks appear to have defined preferences at each of the different positions. For example, Seattle hasn’t drafted a defensive lineman or EDGE rusher with sub-33 inch arms. Rasheem Green, Quinton Jefferson, Jordan Hill, Jaye Howard and Malik McDowell all tested superbly in the short shuttle (4.39, 4.37, 4.51, 4.47 and 4.53 respectively). If they’re looking for a quicker, interior pass-rush or inside/out option — this drill appears to be significant.
Twitchy athletes with great burst are their thing at DE/EDGE. The 10-yard split is clearly important. EDGE rushers Bruce Irvin and Cliff Avril ran 1.55 and 1.50 splits respectively. Anything in the 1.5’s is considered ‘elite’. If you’re looking for a possible LEO in this draft class then you need to be keeping an eye out for the 1.50-1.59 10-yard splits.
The splits are also important for inside/out rushers or interior pass rushers. Frank Clark was considered more of an explosive inside/out rusher and he ran a 1.69 split at 271lbs. Malik McDowell managed the same 1.69 split at 295lbs. Rasheem Green ran a 1.65 at 275lbs.
Look for any EDGE running a 1.5-split or any DE/DT running a 1.6.
Bruce Irvin (4.03) and Frank Clark (4.05) both ran incredible short shuttles. Cassius Marsh’s 4.25 and Obum Gwacham’s 4.28 were also really good.
There were serious concerns about Malik McDowell’s effort and attitude but he put on a show at the combine. He was 295lbs with great height (6-6) and length (35 inch arms) and ran a 4.85 with a 1.69 split. His three cone (4.53) was the same as Dalvin Cook’s.
Every year the defensive linemen generally test well. It’s indicative of the way college football has gone. The top High School players want to play defense because that’s where the money is in the NFL and the stats/kudos/respect. It often means some exceptional combine performers last deep into the draft. We spent a lot of time in 2011 talking about Justin Houston as a possible LEO target. He lasted into round three. Two years ago Kansas State’s Jordan Willis had a fantastic workout and also lasted into round three. His 1.54 10-yard split was the best for a +250lbs player since Cliff Avril’s 1.50 (Avril was also a third round pick). A great combine for a pass rusher will not automatically mean they shoot into the early rounds.
Key tests
Vertical, Broad, Bench, Short Shuttle, Three-cone, 10-yard split (forty)
Ideal size
DL — 6-2/6-4, 300-310lbs, +33 inch arms, +31 inch vertical, +9’ broad, 4.50 ss
LEO — 6-4, 250lbs, +33 inch arms, 1.50-1.59 10-yard split
Interesting note
Miami defensive tackle Gerald Willis III is the brother of New York Giants safety Landon Collins.
Best drill to watch
Just absorb everything. The D-line drills are the most entertaining, most fan-friendly of all the combine events. The bag drills, the swim/rip drills, the club, the working in space. It’s a real show of the most explosive athletes in college football competing in one venue. This is a D-line draft so enjoy.
Five names to watch
Christian Wilkins (DT, Clemson), Dexter Lawrence (DT, Clemson), Montez Sweat (EDGE, Mississippi State), Renell Wren (DT, Arizona State), Ed Oliver (DT, Houston)
Positional assessment
The D-liners will be the highlight of the combine. The 2019 class of defensive linemen has legendary potential. You’ve got a cluster of prospective top-10 picks. We could see as many as 10-12 first rounders from this group. The depth continues deep into days two and three. You also have every single type of player covered — nose tackles, dynamic interior rushers, speed rushers, prototype DE’s. Whatever you need it’s here. I could do a whole preview piece purely on the D-line class but here are a few highlights. I think Dexter Lawrence will run an outstanding forty time for his size (about 350lbs) and get people talking. I think everyone will love Christian Wilkins — his personality and his workout. I think it’s going to be interesting to see which of the defensive ends can run in the elite 1.5’s for the 10-yard split (there could be a few this year). I want to see if L.J. Collier is enough of an athlete for Seattle. What kind of a tester is Dre’Mont Jones at Ohio State? Will Khalen Saunders do a back-flip? How big is Ed Oliver and can he, as expected, be one of the stars of the combine? Is Quinnen Williams a potential challenger to Nick Bosa to be the first D-liner drafted? Is Nick a better tester than Joey? Is Christian Miller going to workout? How much does Brian Burns truly weigh? Is Clelin Ferrell more explosive and quick than people are giving him credit for? Will Gerald Willis III run a fantastic short shuttle? Can Jachai Polite and Montez Sweat secure top-20 grades with a great workout and allay some concerns about their off-field personalities?
Importance to the Seahawks?
You can easily make a compelling case that adding a pass rusher is Seattle’s top need this off-season. Of course it all depends on who they lose in free agency and the situation with Russell Wilson’s contract. Yet adding more support to Frank Clark and Jarran Reed is still essential. They’ve often tapped into the strength of a draft class and that could easily be the case again in 2019. However — there’s one thing to consider here. The Seahawks will trade down from #21. And if they drop into the 30’s or 40’s, there’s a chance they’ll move out of range for the best defensive linemen and into a range where O-line, receiver and possibly quarterback are greater strengths. With so much great D-line depth this year — are they prepared to wait until rounds 3-5 to add to the pass rush? Could they go in a different direction with their first pick after trading down? It’s possible but they could also take a pass rusher with their first pick as many are projecting.
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Mack Wilson is extremely impressive dropping into coverage
Linebackers
The Seahawks have drafted a collection of freakish athletes at linebacker since 2010. Kevin Pierre-Louis, Korey Toomer, Malcolm Smith and Eric Pinkins all ran between a 4.44 and a 4.51 in the forty. Pierre-Louis, Smith and Pinkins all jumped +39 inches in the vertical. Bobby Wagner was a 4.4 runner at his pro-day with a 39.5-inch vertical. Of the five players they’ve drafted with a +140 SPARQ score, Wagner, Pierre-Louis and Bruce Irvin are included. Speed (forty yard dash) and explosive traits (vertical, broad) appear to be preferred.
That said, one of their big success stories since 2011 is K.J. Wright. He’s a 6-3, 246lbs bigger linebacker with incredible length (35 inch arms) but only 4.71 speed, a 34 inch vertical and a 10-0 broad. Wright might be the exception — a unique player with tremendous length and intensity.
Two years ago Pete Carroll stated they needed to add some youth at the position. In the following two drafts the only linebacker they’ve selected is Shaquem Griffin. The 2017 and 2018 combine didn’t produce many exceptionally quick or unique athletes. With Wright now a free agent it’s highly possible they will review this position again depending on how the 2019 linebackers test at the combine.
It’s also very possible they will bring back a man who had this combine performance in 2012:
Height: 5-11
Weight — 239lbs
Forty — 4.47
10-yd split — 1.53
Vertical — 39.5
Broad — 10-7
Short shuttle — 4.19
That exceptional workout belonged to Mychal Kendricks. That’s the type of athlete we need to be looking for if they’re ever going to draft a linebacker early. Kendricks’ forty time is the second fastest by a linebacker at the combine since 2010 (only topped by Shaquem Griffin’s 4.38).
Key tests
Forty yard dash, Three-cone, Vertical, Broad, short shuttle
Ideal size
+6-0, 230-240lbs, 4.4-4.5 forty, 6.70 three-cone, +10’ broad, 4.20-4.35 short shuttle
Interesting note
Bobby Wagner played 99.35% of the defensive snaps in 2016 and K.J. Wright played 97.41%. That led to Carroll’s comment about needing youth at the position to take some of the strain. Since then, Wagner tallied 93.08% of the snaps in 2017 and 93.34% in 2018. Wright had 87.07% in 2017 before missing most of 2018 through injury. It’s been clear for a while that they need some depth and help at the position.
Best drill to watch
The short shuttle results. We highlighted two years ago how important it might be for the Seahawks. Quickness and change of direction is vital at linebacker but the Seahawks also seem to value straight-line speed.
Five names to watch
Devin Bush (LB, Michigan), Mack Wilson (LB, Alabama), Terrill Hanks (LB, New Mexico State), Vosean Joseph (LB, Florida), Bobby Okereke (LB, Stanford)
Positional assessment
There are a cluster of names that could go in the first two rounds including Devin White, Devin Bush, Mack Wilson and Te’Von Coney. After that the depth is a little sparse. It’s been a long time since there’s been a really exciting linebacker class with top-level names and depth. Alabama’s Wilson is a player I’m keen to see at the combine. He was often used as a safety by Alabama on key-passing downs. That’s how highly they rated him in coverage. I watched his Rivals High School footage a few days ago and even prior to joining Alabama it was clear he had a special ability to move in space with his size and cover. Having said that I was a bit disappointed with his 2018 tape. Can he run as well as Bush and White to secure a first round grade? Terrill Hanks and Bobby Okereke have incredibly long arms like K.J. Wright. If they test well they could be on Seattle’s radar.
Importance to the Seahawks?
It gets more important every year. K.J. Wright could be set to depart in free agency and who knows what the future holds for Mychal Kendricks. Bobby Wagner is a free agent after the 2019 season. They need to add some young talent to the position one way or another.
Groups 10-11 (DB)
Arrival: Friday
Measurements: Saturday
Bench press: Sunday
On-field drills: Monday
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Jamal Peters — looks and plays like a Seahawks cornerback
Cornerback
The 2017 cornerback class was the talk of the town. The 2018 group was the complete opposite. The combine workout for last years CB’s was one of the most boring, uninspiring sessions I’ve witnessed in a decade of writing this blog. The length of the workouts didn’t help — they seemed to go on forever in part because so many players had to re-start their drills. Let’s hope it’s a much improved 2019 performance but the early signs aren’t great. It does not look like a strong cornerback class.
By now everyone knows what the Seahawks like in a corner. Every CB drafted in the Pete Carroll era has had 32 inch arms. Those players are generally physical and tall and take pride in defending the run.
A year ago we highlighted Tre Flowers as a possible target and mocked him to Seattle in many of our seven-round projections — simply because he looked like a prototype Seahawks corner at the combine. It was clear and obvious.
We’ve previously discussed the importance of wingspan too. Wingspan is defined as the length between the tip of your middle finger on one outstretched arm to the other. The average NFL cornerback has a wingspan of 75.5 inches (31.5 inch arm length). Here’s the arm length and wingspan data for some of Seattle’s draftees, acquisitions and starters since 2010:
Richard Sherman — 32 (arms) 78 (wingspan)
Brandon Browner — 33 (arms) 80 (wingspan)
Byron Maxwell — 33.5 (arms) 77.5 (wingspan)
Jeremy Lane — 32.5 (arms) 78 (wingspan)
Tye Smith — 32 (arms) 78 (wingspan)
DeAndre Elliott — 32 (arms) 77.5 (wingspan)
Neiko Thorpe — 31 3/4 (arms) 78 1/2 (wingspan)
Stanley Jean-Baptiste — 32 3/8 (arms) 78 3/8 (wingspan)
Pierre Desir — 33 (arms) 77.5 (wingspan)
In 2017 they drafted Shaq Griffin in round three. He has 32 3/8 inch arms but only a 74 3/4 inch wingspan so this was quite a difference compared to some of the other corners. Griffin lacks the kind of length they usually go for at the position.
Why is length so important? 100% of multiple first team All-Pro cornerbacks drafted since 1998 have +32 inch arms.
Short-area quickness also seems to be important. The short shuttle tests lateral quickness, explosion in short areas, body control and the ability to change direction quickly. In this visual demonstration of the drill, Mike Mayock states:
“It’s important for literally every position. Why? For the little guys it’s obvious. Quickness, acceleration, change of direction. How about the big guys? Can they bend? Are you a natural bender or are you a heavy-legged waist bender? A great time for a defensive back is a 4.2.”
If a great time is a 4.2, it’s fair to assume anything quicker than a 4.00 is exceptional.
Since 2010, only five CB’s have run a sub-4.00 short shuttle and measured with 32 inch arms:
2018 — Jordan Thomas (3.94)
2017 — Kevin King (3.89)
2016 — DeAndre Elliott (3.94)
2015 — Byron Jones (3.94), Tye Smith (3.96)
2010-2014 — No qualifiers
The Seahawks drafted Smith and signed Elliott. Short-area quickness and great length is a rare combination so any possible day three prospects with these physical traits will likely be on the radar.
Here are the known short shuttle times for drafted/UDFA cornerbacks in Seattle:
DeAndre Elliott — 3.94
Tye Smith — 3.96
Jeremy Lane — 4.14
Shaq Griffin — 4.14
Deshawn Shead — 4.23
Brandon Browner — 4.24
Richard Sherman — 4.29
Tharold Simon — 4.31
Byron Maxwell — 4.49
Key tests
Three-cone, Vertical, measurements (arm length), short shuttle
Ideal size
+6-1, 195lbs, +32-inch arms, 4.50 forty, +35-inch vertical
Interesting note
Speed previously didn’t appear to be crucial but it might’ve been the difference for Shaq Griffin. Five of Seattle’s six drafted cornerbacks before 2017 ran between a 4.47 and a 4.56 in the forty yard dash. Griffin ran a 4.38 and they drafted him earlier than any other cornerback in the Pete Carroll era.
Best drill to watch
The backpedal drill. Watch to see how the cornerback transitions and whether it’s effortless. Do they have loose hips and do they explode out of their break? Is their footwork smooth or clunky? Are they laboured in any way or does it just look natural?
Five names to watch
Jamal Peters (CB, Mississippi State), Rock Ya-Sin (CB, Temple), Lonnie Johnson (CB, Kentucky), Joejuan Williams (CB, Vanderbilt), Justin Layne (CB, Michigan State)
Positional assessment
Many of the big names are a bit overrated and it’s very difficult to get excited about any of the 2019 cornerbacks in round one. It feels like a year where you identify a collection of CB’s who fit your scheme and you find a range to add one and make do. It’s not a year to chase after the position in round one unless you really believe in a player like Greedy Williams. As usual for the Seahawks — look for the 32-inch armed prospects with decent height and watch how they test. Write down the names and find out how they tackle. You might discover the next player they draft on day three.
Importance to the Seahawks?
There are two aspects to this. Firstly, they could do with adding some competition for Shaquille Griffin and Tre Flowers. The depth at the position is pretty suspect and needs replenishing. Secondly, do they intend to re-sign Justin Coleman? If they lose Coleman they could be on the lookout for a dynamic slot corner. This means a very different physical profile. Coleman was only 5-11 and 185lbs at his combine with 31 1/4 inch arms. He did, however, run a blistering short shuttle (3.98) and jumped a 37.5 inch vertical.
Taylor Rapp is expected to excel in the short shuttle
Safety
After hitting on Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor in 2010, Seattle hasn’t had much success drafting for the safety position. Ryan Murphy, Winston Guy and Mark LeGree have come and gone. The jury’s still out on Tedric Thompson and Delano Hill (although Hill finished the 2018 season strongly).
There’s a real mix of physical profiles in the players they’ve taken, making it a difficult position to project. Thomas (31 1/4) and Legree (30 1/4) have short arms so the 32-inch test isn’t necessary here but Guy had great arm length (33). Murphy ran a 4.48 at his pro-day with an impressive 39-inch vertical but Legree (4.59) and Guy (4.70) didn’t run fast times (Legree only had a 31-inch vertical too). Hill ran a 4.47 but Thompson managed only a 4.60. Overall it’s hard to determine a Seahawks ‘type’ with these numbers. The only safety they’ve drafted in the first two rounds (Earl Thomas) is a tremendous athlete. He ran a 4.37 at his pro-day after pulling a hamstring running the forty at the combine (while still managing an official 4.49).
There aren’t many safety’s entering the NFL with elite level speed. Since 2010, only three (Troy Akpe, T.J. Green and Justin Cox) ran in the 4.3’s at the combine. Budda Baker’s 4.45 at only 195lbs is the 15th best time by a safety in the last nine years. The fastest players haven’t always been the best either. Here are the top-15 runners at the position since 2010:
Troy Akpe — 4.34
T.J. Green — 4.34
Justin Cox — 4.36
Natrell Jamerson — 4.40
Obi Melifownu — 4.40
Justin Reid — 4.40
Dane Cruikshank — 4.41
Josh Jones — 4.41
Terrence Brooks — 4.42
Montae Nicholson — 4.42
Shamarko Thomas — 4.42
Taylor Mays — 4.43
Godwin Igwebuike — 4.44
Earl Wolff — 4.44
Budda Baker — 4.45
We talk a lot about speed at safety because of Earl Thomas but the results here tend to suggest a couple of possibilities. Either speed isn’t as important as some people think to be a great safety or it’s indicative of a lack of quality safety’s currently in the NFL. Both might be true.
Key drills
Forty yard dash, Three-cone, Vertical, Broad
Ideal size
+6-0, 200-220lbs, 4.4 forty, +39-inch vertical, +10-5 broad jump
Interesting note
Bob McGinn’s sourced NFL draft article sums up the 2019 safety class as such: “This class of safeties lacks quality and quantity.”
Best drill to watch
Any of the drills requiring the safety’s to close in space and show off their open-field quickness and range.
Five names to watch
Johnathan Abram (S, Mississippi State), Marvell Tell (S, USC), Marquise Blair (S, Utah), Chauncey Gardner-Johnson (S, Florida), Taylor Rapp (S, Washington)
Positional assessment
It’s difficult to make a case for any safety deserving to be drafted in round one. Taylor Rapp and Jonathan Abram are the most likely players to land in the top-40. Rapp should test very well in the short shuttle. If he runs in the low 4.5’s he could very easily find himself in the first frame. Deionte Thompson and Nasir Adderley have been hyped up unfairly. USC’s Marvell Tell is one to watch as a possible safety/corner convert project. It’s not a great safety class.
Importance to the Seahawks?
The Seahawks appear to like their existing safety’s more than the fans and media. Bradley McDougald has developed into a crucial starter. They seem to really rate Delano Hill and like Tedric Thompson’s potential. They traded for Shalom Luani during the season. It’s very possible they add to the position but it seems unlikely to be a high pick.
Further reading
Free agent priorities for the Seahawks
Why the Seahawks aren’t as focused on SPARQ as you might think
The top performers in each drill position-by-position since 2006
Thoughts and predictions on Seattle’s off-season
You can now support Seahawks Draft Blog via Patreon by clicking the tab below.
Great piece.
I could be mistaken, but I don’t think Seattle has ever taken a TE w/ a 3 cone of 7.10 or more.
Sidenote. What was with that log in thing? Wanted a username and password but wouldn’t recognize either?
+1
+1
And +1 I almost messaged Rob about it earlier but remembered he was on vacation. It was weird. I even made a WP login just to see if it worked 👀
In the last few days the blog has been besieged with spam comments. Hundreds and hundreds per day. I had to shut off comments for a while to try and deal with the situation. It also means some comments that were up for moderation may have been accidentally deleted as I removed the spam in bulk.
Woah! I blame Russia.
What do you think about Hakeem butler. 6’6” 225lbs and 4.5/4.6. Pete loves the big wr and red zone target, but this guy is a big play threat too
He doesn’t create enough separation for me. Running a 4.5/4.6 isn’t going to be enough. As the piece notes — Seattle has only drafted 4.4 receivers with two exceptions — one a seventh round pick and another was Chris Harper who ran a 4.50.
I’ll take a WR that creates separation over a big guy or contested catch winner any day. Russell is not really a “throw his receivers open” QB.
Russ likes to throw to open receivers.
Separation is everything. Even for the big receivers.
I like a contested catch as much as anyone. It was very fun watching JJ Arcega-Whiteside box-out and win so many 1v1 battles. But in the NFL you need to be able to get open — however big or small you are.
Russ used to throw a lot of jump balls to Golden Tate, but he hasn’t done that with any of his other receivers.
With the Seahawks limited draft choices, UDFA signings will be very important this year, so……… I’ve been looking into the FCS ranks for a few FCS prospects of potential Seahawk interest, most will likely be late round or UDFA options, here area a few possible prospects worth further study & possible acquisition.
(1) TE(WR)-Donald Parham, Stetson, 6-8.3/243, est. 4.8/40, 2018: In only 9-games, 85/1319/13-TD’s, 145.6-yds.per game. currently #295 overall at drafttek.com —-> more a WR than TE, but really TALL. He would seem to be at his best as a slot WR type with his tremendous height improving his huge catch radius, especially in the end zone. Could be well worth an UDFA contract to check him out.
(2) –OLB-Derick Roberson., Sam Houston St., 6-3/249, 9″-hand, 33″-arms (+ size + production, speed=?)
2018: 11-games, 15-Sacks, 20.5-TFL, 5-FF – Now he’s being touted as a potential day 2 pick by Mel Kiper.
(3) –OLB-Pete Swenson, Western Illinois, 6-3/230, 2018: 11-games, 14.5-Sacks, 24.5-TFL, 3-FF, (size and decent production, speed & agility = ?)
(4) DB/LB-B. J. Blunt, McNeese St. 6-03/220, 9-1/4″-hands, 31-1/4″ arms. (Rover? death-backer? speed=?)
2018: 10-games, 102-tkls, 60-solo, 1.0-Sacks, 20.0-TFL, 2-FR.
(5) PK-Rolan Alcobendas, Eastern Washington, 6-0/180’s, 16 for 16 on FG’s, missed only 1 XP and he also served as the full time punter with an average in the mid 40’s with a long of 78-yds. Unique PK & Punter combo that can place kick well and also be a quality B/U as a punter. Small school, but championship level play within the FCS should mean he performs well under pressure? I think it’s always nice to buy locally and there are some workout advantages pre-draft with the local guys as well. Alcobendas doesn’t have the strongest leg, but leg strength can be improved and he would seem to be very accurate on his kicks. The Seahawks need to sign him (and others) as a UDFA for the coming competition at place kicker.
RE: TE(WR)-Parham, forgot to mention: he is at or near the tallest prospect in the draft at 6′-8 and 3/8″, has 10.5″-hands and has incredible 36-1/8″-vines (arms). If he can vertical jump well, DB’s will need step ladders to defend him, that may be worth an UDFA signing just based on physical size, but the guy can catch a little too, so why not sign him up if possible?
Where do we think AJ Brown will go? I see a faster Anquan Boldin there.
Awesome
If the Seahawks do decide to take a RB this draft keep an eye on Florida’s Jordan Scarlett for day 3. He’s right in the wheelhouse size wise & would be a good Carson insurance policy/preservative.
Day 3/UDFA QBs I’d be interested in are Northwestern’s Clayton Thorson & Iowa State’s Kyle Kempt.
SEA ain’t target scat backs much but keep an eye on Darrell Henderson out pf Memphis small time school but he carried them and is a legit home-run-hitter
Production is always an indicator of someone they might like at WR or RB. With a new OC, they might be more willing to give a smaller guy a shot, if he has other intangibles.. like extreme speed or shiftiness. I think RB is a legit spot to keep an eye on in the draft, maybe a bit earlier than people realize.
They’ve taken players with nigh unparalleled production before at those positions, but they also took someone like Christine Michael who rarely saw the touches of a #1 in college
I think they place some value on elite production, but as always, it’s about what a guy can do more than what he can’t.
Kenny: I really like Henderson, he’d be a good get, however his B/U is pretty interesting also.
PC has stated in the past that he really likes having “different types” in RB’s & WR’s. They have their standard 5-11/220 type players already on the squad, but with perhaps Davis being gone & Procise likely gone as well, but a roster spot should be available. Carson, Penny, Scarbrough, are the big guys, so there is room for a smaller, speedy, versatile slasher, change of pace type RB to be added to the mix. McKissic who knows? Make him compete, swim or sink?
Somewhere in the draft, UDFA or FA market a good kick returner should be a BIG consideration.
With Lockett’s value being now primarily as a WR (that maybe returns punts) a good K. O. returner that plays another B/U position would seem to be a “logical” idea. It should also be noted that they have a good K. O. returner already in Penny, but like Lockett, his value may be primarily as a RB in tandem with Carson. I would submit the following player for at least, some consideration.
–RB-Tony Pollard, Memphis, 6-0/208, (He’s set a goal of running a 4.3/40 at the combine). As the primary B/U to Henderson, he has a lot of tread on his tires & is — extremely versatile.
2018: 14-games, Rush: 78/552/6-TD’s, 7.08-ypc, Receiving: 30/458/3-TD’s, 11.74-ypc.
+ K.O. Returns: 27/667/1-TD, 24.70-yd-avg. Season Total = 1677 all-purpose yards.
Career: 40-games, Rush: 128/941/9-TD’s, 6.8-ypc, Receiving: 104/1292/9-TD’s, 12.4-ypc K.O. Returns: 87/2616/7-TD’s, 30.1-yd-avg. Career Total = 4849 all purpose yards.
#1 in NCAA in 2017 with **4 K.O. return TD’s**, #1 in NCAA Tied (with Rashaad Penny) with career total of 7 K.O. return TD’s, #5 in NCAA history with career K.O. return avg. of 30.1-yds.
nfldraftnetwork.com analysis: https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/20/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-tony-pollard/
Georgia RB Elijah Holyfield is a player that fits the Seahawks mold at RB. It will be interesting to see how he does at the combine.
Representing Washington University , Myles Gaskin. Small, speedy, and a consistently good runner.
University of Washington.
Gaskin didn’t play his college ball in St Louis, MO.
Miles Gaskin = Bishop Sankey
Both very productive college running backs, both that don’t amount to much in the NFL. : )
I didn’t even read about Robert Kraft’s ‘happy endings’ until today. You’ve been caught on film old timer. Law enforcement better make sure there are copies of that footage. That type of evidence has a tendency to vanish when it incriminates the RK ilk.
What a class act that organization has been. Spy-gate, deflate-gate and now the orchids-of-asia-gate. Some time in the pokey would probably do him some good.
The little blue pill did wonders!
~I’m Bob Kraft and I approve of this message
A funny meme I’ve seen, showed a prostitute with a Tom Brady face. 😀
Fantastic!!! Thank you for all you do.
Wow Rob, this is awesome.
I’m excited to see what happens at RB & WR. I think at WR especially this is the perfect draft to pull the trigger on a late round prospect – there’s just so many big bodied receivers this year that are likely to have some crazy athletic trait that pops out.
F**k man I miss Ricardo Lockette….
With deionte Thompson having wrist surgery and not participating in the combine, could we see him drop significantly, and be a possible CB convert as you have mentioned him having the prototype body for?
I think he was possibly going to last longer than people were projecting anyway. But I doubt he drops to the round five range where they’d probably consider him as a CB convert.
I agreed with your sentiment that we was overrated and going to last longer than most people thought. I pictured him going 3rd, but part of it was I believed he would have a middling performance at the combine. Do you think 5th is earliest we would possibly take a projected conversion? If he’s there in the 4th, do they take a flyer? Personally wasn’t too high on him as a safety, but I like the thought of converting him to CB similar to flowers, and possibly having equal success.
4th? Maybe. But might be a round early for a convert
Great piece, Rob. ‘Ultimate’ almost doesn’t do it justice.
Neville Gallimore is a freak DL and a Canadian product. Bleeds maple syrup n everything. I’ve heard he’s been timed as low as 4.76 at 315 lbs.
Porter Gustin is under the radar, as a prospect. He don’t fall from the USC LB tree. Super intense, high motor, all ball. Dude’s cut like a Renaissance statue. A broken ankle ended his season at USC early, but in high school he played his senior season with BOTH HANDS BROKEN!!!! He’s also absolutely a freak athlete. Might get his stock back lol.
Plus he has that USC connection with Pete /sarcasm
If Renell Wren drops out of round 2, I think it’d be hard not to take him if you’re a Pete Carroll.
Idk what Breckyn Hager’s range is but he’s an athletic DE from Texas. Type that added weight but retained athleticism. Said “we gotta go injure that QB” about Mahomes once and socked a WR when Okla was kneeling the clock. His attitude is a big red flag for me. His dad played NFL ball for a long time so hE hAs nFL BlOoDLiNEs~~~
It doesn’t look like Gallimore declared for the draft, but defiantly one to watch next year. His quickness really stands out, and he hits ball carriers with bad intentions.
Yet again I’m just floored by the quality and quantity of free content on SDB. Hats off to you Rob, this is an awesome effort, and very much appreciated!!
Hey Rob, just saying thanks for all of us who just mostly read,great journalism should be universally respected and admired, but that’s like just my opinion man
In my opinion the hawks needs are:
1) defensive lineman
2) linebacker
3) wide receiver
4) safety
5) cornerback
Usually it will take 2-3 years for a defensive linemen or wide receiver to get acclimated to the nfl. The biggest issue for these players is getting playing time. Frank Clark didn’t get the reps to produce star quality numbers until Avril and Bennett we’re gone. Lockett didn’t get the reps he deserved until paul richardson was gone. In my opinion the most impactful player that we could draft due to the opportunity for playing time is a linebacker or safety. Can those players take us to next level? 🤷🏼♂️
I can’t see a linebacker or safety taking them to the next level. An impact pass rusher or two and improved depth? Yes.
I agree completely with this take Rob. I think that is why if one of the Clemson big 3 DL(Ferrell, Wilkins, Lawerence) Polite or Sweat are there at 21 they have to consider pulling the trigger instead of trading back. If they do trade back into the 40s then Simmons on a red shirt year is another option. He would have been a top 5 pick on talent alone.
I don’t agree about taking someone at #21. You can’t only pick four times. They need depth and competition in numerous areas. None of the Clemson three will be there anyway so it’ll be a moot point, but putting all your hopes for improvement on one player at the expense of the bigger picture is not a smart move. They’ve made their bed and they have to sleep in it. They need more than four picks and have to trade down.
I think your right rob. Defensive ends that can make an immediate impact should be gone by the time the hawks pick the first time. Which makes me think linebacker in round 2 would be more realistic. If walker from Georgia falls to the 40ish range. We scoop him up.
I get what your saying Rob, and it’s valid, and I even agree.
However, I can easily argue your made bed-sleep in it argument to picking at 21, and living with not having other picks and getting first round talent.
Just another school of thought
Not really — because you don’t have to ‘sleep’ in that bed. You can trade down and acquire extra picks. They’re not forced to select at 21.
They are forced to find a way to acquire more picks because they traded three away.
If one of the three Clemson guys is there at 40 then I’d run to the podium. But they’ll be gone before 20. We’ve had issues two years running defending the edge in the running game so I don’t see a guy like Polite being a fit. Sweat checks all the boxes in terms of size and length, but seems like he isn’t a year one impact player, maybe that’s asking too much. He looks a little too raw or maybe he only gets up for the big games. I have huge reservations about taking a guy around 40 like Simmons that won’t play year one and is coming off an injury that can severely limit an athlete’s explosiveness, a key attribute for the d line. I’d personally take a linebacker or wide receiver then, maybe an offensive guard or tackle. We need depth and four picks isn’t enough to get the cheap young talent we need.
I think the Seahawks will target:
1) Defensive linemen – probably a defensive end
2) wide receiver
3) linebacker
4) tight end
5) cornerback
6) offensive line
The defensive line may not be the highest value in the second round. Wide receiver or linebacker should be pretty good in that range. They picked up Wagner in the second round, and Kendricks was a second rounder.
I know Pete, John and Rob will probably figure this out without me… But
1) D line – Khalen Saunders
2) TE – Drew Sample
3) LB – Khalil Hodge
4) Slot/FS – Clifton Duck
5) FB – Alec Ingold
6) ST/CB – Joejawn Williams
I’m kinda looking forward to seeing what Green, Martin and Jones could do next year opposite Frank. And I’m afraid a 2nd round DE could just be more of the same….
Tremendous work, Mr. Staton. We don’t deserve you!
Question: Assuming that one of the elite prospects falls, is there a player you would take with our first rounder rather than trade down? It seems like a fait accompli that we drop down to add picks but I hope the Hawks FO prioritize quality over quantity.
No. They can’t pick four times only. They’re in real need of increased depth and competition across the board.
Agreed but there are other ways to acquire some later round picks. A guy like Pocic would likely yield a day 3 pick as an example.
Would he? I doubt Pocic would get you much at all. And if you start trading away your depth you need to replace it.
Hypothetically there might be a way to get a pick back? I can’t imagine Pocic stock is high right now, but all it takes is one team who maybe liked him in 2017? Any other players we may be able to move?
I think they could possibly get a pick for Pocic but it might be a 6th rounder. I’m not sure that’s going to have much impact on whether they feel they can stay at #21. The Seahawks don’t really have any assets they can afford to deal at the moment.
They can work UDFA , plus every year there are an enormous number of players cut before regular season to sort through. Before someone says that those players aren’t as good, there is a good percentage of them that did eventually make a team and are playing in the NFL right now.
And they will work UDFA’s as they do every year.
But there is no chance whatsoever they decide four picks is sufficient and they’ll make up the rest with undrafted players.
They are trading down.
Why not trade a 3rd for a 5th and 6th?
It’s very difficult to get up to 7-8 picks trading down from round three. You might be able to get a 5th or a 6th like you say for moving down into the late third. But that only leaves you with five picks instead of four. Trading down from #21 provides much more opportunity to get up to the 7-8 pick range and make this a meaningful draft class.
Fantastic write up, Rob
Did you get a chance to read John Clayton’s piece on the 710 page in response to the RW trade speculation?
I thought it was a pretty interesting read. He factored in using the tag in 2020 and 2021 along with an annual increase in salary cap and determined that if they use the tag on him his salary would only take up 15 percent or so, making things fairly manageable for JS. I think he felt that this is probably the reason why they haven’t spoken to his agent yet. There may not be any real need yet, and they have essentially three years to get a deal done.
This slightly tamed the sense of urgency in my mind to acquire a QB of the Future in this draft with the limited resources. While I’m intrigued with Grier, I wonder if a guy like Collier isn’t more prudent if he tests well. A; he adds immediate pass rush to Clark and Reed and B; he would be a hedge for Clark if they can’t reach a long term deal.
Here’s the problem though. Clayton’s right. The two tags in 2020 and 2021 are manageable. But you can’t play out that 2021 tag. Because the 2022 tag is so incredibly back-breaking in terms of cost, you won’t be tagging him a third time. So if he gets to 2021 on the franchise tag, there are only two scenarios. Either you negotiate an extension in that sub-12 month window (with zero leverage and the pressure on) or you accept he’ll be a free agent in 2022 and you’ll get nothing more than a possible third round comp pick.
So it can’t get that far down the line. They really have until the end of the 2020 season to get a deal done. About an 18 month window. And then you have to come to a choice. Play out the deal or trade him to get some value.
That would give them two drafts in order to find a possible solution at QB if they end up having to accept a deal isn’t coming. You can’t just push this down the line. Otherwise you’ll end up like the Cardinals. Having years to prepare for life after Carson Palmer and doing nothing about it, before becoming the worst team in the NFL.
They need to take a QB probably in both drafts. Now if the right player isn’t there — you don’t force it and take one for the sake of it. But if there’s one you like, you have to do it. You have to preempt the scenario of Wilson moving on. And the more time you give a young QB to learn your offense and work with the team the better.
There really are only two scenarios. Get a deal done with Wilson this off-season (very difficult) or plan for a scenario where you lose him. And at the end of the day — even if you get a deal done with Wilson nobody is going to hammer the team for drafting a good young QB as insurance and then having a quality, cheap young backup (who you could potentially trade ala Jimmy G).
Strong points. I totally agree. If they feel Grier or someone else can become a legit starter in the league, I’m cool with burning high draft capital on a QB. A couple years ago I was high on them potentially drafting Prescott to be groomed behind RW.
I do think that if the RW camp plays a difficult game in negotiations, that rookie QB is going to have a cult following with the fans if he shows anything positive in the preseason, but that is another matter. Probably helps the team in the end.
Go Hawks
Do you think that the franchise tag also hurts Wilson? Because he can’t complete a long term deal with another team, unless the Seahawks agree to it. I suppose the Seahawks would also get some compensation, draft picks maybe?
I don’t think it hurts Wilson at all. It essentially guarantees him a massive salary until the point he either reaches agreement on an extension or becomes a free agent.
I agree with you on not needing to spend a high round draft pick on the QB of the future right now. Next year would be the earliest I would draft a QB, and there should be a better selection then. There are only two QBs that people are talking about this year.
As for the franchise tag, it seems like a good way to roll for awhile. Seahawks won’t have a lot of future money tied up in Wilson. If he gets injured, which is highly unlikely, they won’t be paying beyond the current year. Which is what has dragged down the Seahawks CAP. See Chancellor, Thomas injuries, etc.
I bet the Cardinals said they same thing.
‘Next year’
‘Don’t need to fix the roof today, let’s have a margarita’
‘Wait a while’
‘Oh crap we’re having to start a rookie or sign Sam Bradford to a mega contract’
It doesn’t mean they will take a QB early this year. But if they don’t it’ll be because they either don’t like the players available or their guy is drafted before they get their shot. It won’t be because ‘we can afford to push this down the line’.
And for everyone saying next year will be better. Why will it? Are they going to draft Tua with the #1 pick? Or Herbert in the top-10? Who exactly do you think is going to be there between 20-75 that is better than the guys in this class? Or are you just assuming next year is better because there are two big names set to go in the top-10?
Not really in the argument, But I wanted to mention that with hurts transferring to Oklahoma, I’m calling it now that they make it three Heisman trophies in a row, and he becomes a hot commodity this time next year. Seeing what Riley and co have done with mayfield and Murray, I see hurts having a tremendous passing year and showing off those skills that weren’t developed at bama. He has the chip on his shoulder, and faced adversity, could be fun. On that note, very interesting year in regards to transfered QBs.
It’ll be very interesting to see Hurts at Oklahoma. One of the more fascinating stories for 2019 for sure.
I”ve been interested in Hurts also. The more he develops his passing game, the better he will become. His running abilities are excellent.
Man I unfortunately read some of the comments on a Kyler Murray article elsewhere on the intertronz, holy smokes people really hate this kid. Wow.
I know better than to read comments, I rarely do. I didn’t realize how negative a perception he has. Hope he proves them all wrong.
Why? What was their reason for hating him I mean?
Amazing writeup Rob thanks so much for this! My one stop shop to prep for the Combine!
Agree 100%. This is one of my favorite articles every year!
Here here, I third this!
Bravo Rob, I feel you have once again most likely identified some future hawk draft picks (which is the main reason I read your blog). Of course the combine will really cement for us the testing of the athletes and give us a better idea of which guys are on the hawks radar. Looking forward to your after combine piece where you (once again) help predict future hawk draft picks!
Rob, have you looked at any of the smaller school linebackers besides Khalil Hodge? Ulysses Gilbert has very good numbers and tape at U of Akron.
I haven’t — although after the combine any players who stand out will get a big review. It’s a key off season position.
I’m wondering if TEF could be somehow modified to accommodate the weight of an offensive lineman, given equal explosive power will yield differences in vertical and broad jump results for significant differences in weight. For instance, Solari has clearly shown a willingness to work with mountainous men (Fluker, Simmons), whose massive weight limits their testing ability. Or perhaps a simpler approach of establishing target TEF scores for weight classes, perhaps looking back at prior years to find the higher TEF scores for each weight class for reference.
Just a random thought as I was reading.
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/introducing-weighted-tef-what-it-tells-us
Thanks! Did not remember this piece (memory not what it used to be). I’ll have to pay closer attention to this metric to see if it provides a clear trend under the new Solari regime (with either or both of FA and drafted players).
My nomination for a “sleeper” DE/EDGE pick in Round 5 – or – perhaps later in the coming draft.
He’d very much be a developmental prospect, but has a lot of potential to work with & coach up.
Crosby will be at the combine and warrants some watching. Seems to have a large wingspan & long arms. Uses his hands very well, needs more technique and needs to muscle up a little bit. PFF seems to like him a lot in comparison to other DE/EDGE’s (see link below). Looks like a “value” pick for the Seahawks to me + the kid has some moxie and exhibits a “shoulder chip” mentality in his interviews.
DE/EDGE-Maxx Crosby, E. Michigan(MAC), 6-5/247, 40 time TBD. – Projected to go Rd-5/6.
2018:
12-games, 70-tkls, 31-solo, 19.0-TFL, 7.5-Sacks, 1-INT(for TD), 3-PD, 1-FR, 4-FF
Career:
37-games, 162-tkls, 73-solo, 41.0-TFL, 20.0-Sacks, 1-INT(for TD), 4-PD, 4-FR(1 for TD), and 8-FF.
TAPE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b2ABXG-uK4
PFF Assessment: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-theres-more-than-what-meets-the-eye-with-eastern-michigan-edge-maxx-crosby
Rob,
This is a truly comprehensive treatment of the first big event in a pivotal off-season! Thank you, and as folks are always saying to Roland Deschain of Gilead, Hail, Gunslinger, Well met!
As one aside, anybody out thêre watching even highlights of some of the AAF stuff? I’m willing to bet the Hawks have someone keeping an eye on that league for possible prospects.
Rob. If I understand TEF correctly, the vertical jump is in inches, and you divide it by 31, however the broad jump is in feet and divided by 9?
So if their vertical is 35 inches and broad jump 9 foot 3 inches (it would be 9.25) and they bench 26 it would be 35 divided by 31 + 9.25 divided by 9 CUBED + 26 divided by 30
1.129 + 1.08 + .866 = 3.075
Yes??
The full calculation is explained here https://seahawksdraftblog.com/2017-tef-preview-and-tweaking-the-formula
(Just trying to help you make sure you got it)
No, it would be 3.18. The target for the bench press is 27, not 30.
VJ/31
+
(BJ/9) cubed
+
BP/27
So, for your example, 1.129 + 0.96 + 1.085 = 3.177
Another is Derick Roberson, DE/OLB No. 49 Sam Houston St
Height: 6040 | 250 lbs | 40 time: 4.76
2018 stats: 68 tackles, 15 sacks, 2 PD, 5 FF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nBDipfjjN8
You are without peer in Seahawks (and draft) coverage, Rob!
Thanks man, appreciate it.
And to all the others posting positive comments too. It means a lot. Thank you.
How difficult could the Russ contract be? Use Aaron Rodgers as a template and Russ should be between 33M and 35M per year.
Incredibly difficult. Because if he prefers to play year-to-year on the tag he will earn a lot more money and it increases his chances of hitting the market.
You keep saying how difficult negotiations on a new contract for Russ could be, and I’m beginning to believe you’re spot on.
If RW chooses to bet on himself (ala Kirk Cousins) he can hold out for extreme money on a long-term contract, say $40MM/yr or more with $100MM+ guaranteed. Or he can essentially force the Hawks to use the franchise tag on him for at least the 2020-21 seasons and likely become an UFA in 2022 if the Hawks can’t/won’t franchise him a third time.
The only downside I see for RW is if he experiences a serious injury, with no more than the current year’s salary guaranteed. But he has been amazingly healthy and keeps himself in great shape, so why not bet on himself to stay healthy and continue performing at a high level.
I sure hope Pete/John can get Frank, Bobby, and Reed all signed before needing to franchise RW in 2020.
I think the other thing to remember with any injury — even if Wilson suffers an ACL or broken leg, it’s an absolute cast-iron guarantee that the Seahawks would seek to retain him or another team would be willing to throw money at him in free agency. Injuries have not hampered Aaron Rodgers’ earning power. They didn’t hamper Peyton Manning when he missed a full season and was cut by the Colts. Wilson doesn’t have to worry about injuries unless it’s a career ending situation. And I’m not sure any player, especially one as ambitious and positive as Wilson, is going to let that small possibility cloud his judgement or desire to bet on himself.
Thanks Rob, really comprehensive write up as always.
Pivotal draft and off-season coming up for our Hawks.
I know it feels that way most seasons but this year it really does.
Pretty damn fine article here. Thanks…
I think Rob is spot on and that the Russell Wilson contract is the one dark cloud hanging over the franchise right now. I truly hope this is not the case and Hawks / WIlson can work something out this off season like every other truly franchise QB has done in recent years (Big Ben, Brady, Rogers, Ryan and Brees).
The absolute worst scenario possible would be if Wilson plays hardball and takes the Kirk Cousin’s route and tries to max out by taking a series of one year deal on the tag. We saw how that worked out for Washington and now Minnesota. The QB is the leader of the team and has to be on lockstep with the Coach if the team wants to win IMO. How can the team rally around a guy who is not committed long term.
I hope I am wrong but I don’t think the Hawks roster is a Super Bowl contender next year and is at lease one more off season away from being a legit SB challenger. Therefore I really hope JS and Pete come up with their absolute best offer and present it Russ.
Hopefully he signs it and they can move forward. If not I think you put him on the market immediately as his trade value will never be higher with a weak QB draft etc. A trade would likely allow them to acquire multiple picks there and some future #1s.
Would they take a step back without Russ next year? Of course they would even they can some how get Kyler Murray. But it would let them extend Clark, Reed and Wagner as well as add a ton of young talent so that hopefully the following year they can legitimately compete for an SB.
Is it just me or am I the only not worried at all about the russ contract situation.
Hawks are not going fumble it. Russ I fully believe wont demand an astronomical amount, I bet 30/yr eventually. I believe this marriage is not going to have any issues. Hawks will do there due diligence and scout all positions including QB. Russ will not worry if they draft a QB. If the hawks find another top QB, then I can see a change. As for Russ, the guy probably doesn’t want to go anywhere. Hes loved here, has rooted himself here, has a dream coach in positivity terms, and is on a consistent winning team. He will want top5 dollar but I dont see him handcuffing the franchise and this getting Landon Collins/A.B. bad. Russ wants to win. U can see it how he plays. Media will media. And russ and hawks will simply ignore it. Cuz like last time, a deal will come and probably be similar. Wont be back breaking/but wont be cheap. Both camps will do there part. And I bet he signs in August.
I get the comparisons to the cousins tags. But Redskins were truly torn on the guy. If it was Russell, skins would have gotten a deal done. Hawks will draft a qb, Grier at most or another mcgough late. But it wont impact russ deal. Cuz both camps aren’t stupid. Russ, Bobby, frank all will be here for a few more years. I will bank on it.
I’m actually very worried because I don’t think Seattle is a no brainer situation for him to be in. We are a middling team that is lacking serious resources for a reload this offseason. RW is in his prime – I think he wants to capitalize as much as humanly possible on it.
Any team without a top 10 QB is tilted either way with or without a a franchise qb. To say he might be happier in New York or LA or wherever is to say he enjoys the players, coaches, atmosphere and money more there. Maybe Seattle wasnt his top choice originally but this is a guy who embraced the city and has been a huge supporter of Sonics and Portland getting MLB. Nobody doubts he wants to be paid more. But to assume he wants to hold out and be richest qb over everything else? Or wants to leave no matter what? Nope dont believe it.
I’m not too worried about the RW issue, either. What happens, happens. The most important think is for PCJS to not handle it as poorly as they did the Earl Thomas situation. Wilson can’t leave without getting a bounty in return. Not saying we should trade him, but if you can’t extend him he can’t walk for nothing. That’s the sort of thing that can set the team back too far.
I think we will probably have to have another retool or full on rebuild before the end of the next three years, anyway. A lot of players who are either getting older or will have contracts that are expiring. You need to have either. Having either a QB or a bounty of picks to make they process smoother.
You’re not alone Tony. There are many that have the same sentiment. However, more importantly is what Mr. Wilson believes, and not necessarily our own speculations, or sentiments. From what can be heard from Russ is the general positive tenor of what the future holds, not only for him, but also his team.
https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/article224004115.html
I firmly believe, as well, that JS & PC know this, and feel the same way about their QB, and the team for the future. Comparisons with Cousins has a major distinction, in that Russell’s team has had great success towards winning a championship. That taste is ever present in Russell’s palate, to which will win out over the amount of money he will make. As this video shows, “It’s ALL about winning around here.”
The hawk’s franchise QB will get franchise QB $$$, eventually. It would not be surprising to see Mr. Wilson acting “in that fashion” for the next 10yrs.
I hope you’re right about Russell. But I remember how fractured the 2015 negotiations became when we all thought it would be simple. And last week someone, and it wasn’t Seattle, planted a rumour about Wilson being open to a move to New York. Mark Rodgers will be on the radio soon. No doubt.
I think media overhypes drama. Yes it’s a business that’s recognized by both sides. Media flames the fire, agents negotiate, and teams scout options. To think russ or the hawks are hurt or offended by the other is speculation in itself. I wont believe anything until russ or PCJS actually say something defiant. Last time we went thru the RW contract extension, it ended nicely with a fair deal. No gross overpay like many touted. No weirdness after or sherman like breakdowns. RW has never acted out or veered from the hawks way. Hes not ET, kam or sherm. Him and Bobby are totally bought in. And I believe Pete would retire before either is dropped or traded.
I do love all your takes on everything seahawks and draft. But I’m much less worried they botch this.
The media aren’t barely even talking about it, let alone overhyping it.
That’s why a mysterious source in the agent world let it be known Wilson fancies a move to New York, shortly after Schefter’s ‘report’ during the Super Bowl about no talks yet. Because one party wants this in the media.
Nobody says you have to worry. Just don’t be surprised if this goes a certain way.
Toni Pauline gave us Brian Burns and Deandre Baker in his latest three round mock.
I…would love that haul!
That’s not the 1st time I’ve heard Baker mocked to Seattle FWIW. They had or have (could be someone who isn’t draft eligible) their eye on someone from Georgia.
Gotta think one of the WRs. Riley or Hardman. I’m leaning Hardman if they think he’s available in R5.
That would have the potential to be a A+ draft. Both guys have question marks but huge upside.
Rob – I’m sure you’ve been asked this hundreds of times, but what does your gut tell you about the RW situation? At this moment – what goes down?
I unequivocally agree that games are being played; but there’s a big part of me that can’t help but think RW might be sincere about not wanting to be here (our interpretation – not anything he has said). I think it is not necessarily because of him wanting to pass more, though I don’t think that’s a crazy notion. I do, however, think it could have more to do with the fact that this team really isn’t that good. I think next year is going to be a difficult one for this team. There are still massive holes and little resources available to fix it. I don’t think we are a bad team, at all. But, I wouldn’t be surprised by a 7 win season next year. I’m really failing to see where we are better next year. Baldwin is banged up and 30 years old. Outside of Tre Flowers – I don’t see any noticeable improvement from the secondary. Pass rush could be a major problem. I love Clark and Reed, but expecting them to duplicate 2018 numbers is a stretch.
Anyways, RW is certainly in the middle of his prime. I just can’t help but shake the feeling that there are more issues than we are being lead to believe.
While the Giants are not good, adding RW would make them the most dynamic offense in the league. I have no doubt.
Matt, there’s no credible evidence to suggest RW wants to play elsewhere at this time. He hasn’t said that, nor has his agent It’s pure speculation and rumor at this point. I also think the Hawks are a lot closer to competing at the highest level than you suggest. If they keep the offensive line together, keep Frank as expected, why wouldn’t they count on continued improvement from the rest of the young players. Certainly they will also fill the key holes via free agency or the draft, and add depth and competition.
In addition to his desire to get paid, Russ wants to win, and you can’t convince me the Giants are closer to that goal than the Hawks. Most of the QB needy teams who can afford to pay Russ a boatload of money, aren’t very good and likely don’t have great rosters overall. How is that a better situation than to get paid that same boatload of dough, but continue to play for your original team (where you won a SB no less), in a city that loves you?
I believe Pete/John are going to figure out how to keep Russ, and hopefully Bobby, Jarran Reed, and Fran as well. Not saying they can extend all of them, it just might not be possible– but it won’t be for a lack of trying if these four are considered the team’s core.
All fair points Simo. Couple points:
I never claimed there was credible evidence. I do find it odd how RW has been somewhat radio silent. I felt very confident that the Seahawks were in utter internal disarray in 2016-2017 despite there not being a ton of evidence (the evidence is there now). I don’t know…I don’t think RW is actively wanting to get out of SEA, but I also don’t think he’s married to this city as much as people hope. He has crazy aspirations and will absolutely do whatever it takes to fulfill those goals.
We definitely don’t agree on the state of the Seahawks. I don’t think they are anywhere close to actually competing for a SB. I fully expect young players to progress, but I am hard pressed to expect more production out of Jarran Reed, after a monster season. That is hard to repeat. Frank will continue to be great but he’s never struck me as a 20 sack guy (heck, nobody is, really). I think Flowers can improve and become a nice player. I think Tedric and Shaq are who they are, which is below average starting players.
The Offensive Line performed admirably in the run game but was still very bad as a pass blocking unit. Baldwin is definitely on the downside of his career meaning we have major holes at WR to be filled.
I would actually contend that the Giants, with Russell Wilson would be closer to contending than the Seahawks are. The big draw, IMO, is that he would be leading the most explosive offensive unit in the NFL. So, while I don’t think the Giants are great – the idea of RW playing with Saquon, Engram, OBJ is something that would be a marvel to watch.
Again, I’m not saying the Seahawks are a bad team. I’m simply saying I see more of a middling team with very little upside at the moment, who is severely lacking in resources to really make a big step forward. That’s my concern. I don’t think any NFL analyst would put Seattle as a team on the precipice.
The Giant’s GM gets to choose between…….
Trade for RW, COST 3 1-st round draft picks (minimum), less 35+ million in cap space & much more in all future years.
-or-
Draft a really similar player that is considerably (vastly) cheaper in Tyler Murray, keep 2 1-st round draft picks (minimum) to build the team around him even further + SAVE upwards of MANY, MANY millions for the next 5 years.
Seems to me – that’s an easy choice for any GM wanting to keep his job. But then, it is ….. New York.
Proven elite NFL QB > College QB who’s never played a snap in the NFL.
Even if it’s Andrew Luck you’re gonna draft, the proven QB is much safer. If you can add a franchise QB you do it.
I really think it could go either way with Russell. I hope they get a deal done. I’m prepared for it not being the case. I would urge everyone to share that outlook on the situation.
That’s exactly where I’m at. I absolutely don’t want to see him go…I just have a weird feeling that he won’t be a Seahawk in the next 2 years.
Here’s to hoping my gut is wrong.
I’ve been holding onto the mindset that RW is here through 2021 and then outy.
I do think that this roster is closer to being towards the top than staying middling, though. I think there is a lot of growth still to be had from Reed and there is talent on the roster itching to be developed.
If he’s here through 2021 and then out he will be departing as a free agent.
Yeah, that’s what I’m bracing for.
I’m 99% sure RW will be a Seahawk at least through 2021. That means 2 tags. After that, it’ll depend on PCJS contract.
If there are another 3 years in PC I bet he’ll push for a contract for Russ. I doubt he wants to close his HC career with a risky rookie QB. If the and PC will start to talk in 2020 about a contract, I think PC would even push to give 37-38 mil APY contract for Russ.
If he thinks about retiring after 2021, I think everything is in play, but I also think it’s more likely they’ll trade Wilson to give more CAP and draft capital for the new HC.
Schneider contract is also up in 2021. I guess how everything will be handled will depend on what will be the direction of the FO.
If they’ll be successful in this year (deep PO run, or SB appearance), and PCJS open for another x years, I think they’ll give Russ a big contract (I’d think around 37 APY, 4 years ~80% GTD), and the franchise will extend with PCJS to keep them here through 2025.
If nothing special happens or PC wants to retire I think they’d still like to keep JS but not sure about Wilson.
But unless someone wants to sell everything (3 first, 1-2 second, 2 third or something like this) for RW, I really-really doubt RW will be traded.
As for QB pick, I think they have 2-3-4 guys who they like. If they’ll be available after trading back, they might pick them. But they won’t trade up or reach for any QB right now (they might do that after this year)
A few points here…
1. If Wilson plays out 2021 on the tag then he will leave Seattle as a free agent and the Seahawks will risk getting nothing for him. That won’t happen. The 2022 tag is so obscene that they will either re-sign him before 2021 or they will trade him.
2. I think we should stop trying to guess how many years Pete Carroll has left. He’ll probably coach until he drops. He’s just signed a new contract. I doubt he or JS are thinking there’s an endgame in sight. They’ll just carry on. And the decisions they make will be with the long term benefits of the team in mind, not a short term mindset due to their contract.
3. People continue to misread the Wilson situation. It’s not about their desire to give him a big contract or not. It’s all about Wilson’s willingness to play on the tag and try to emulate Cousins.
4. They won’t be trading up for anyone, let alone a QB.
I agree with most, but not sure about PC’s coaching career length. If it would be 10000% up to him, yep he coaches till he drops. But he has a family. Maybe he wants to spend more time with them. Or the family wants him more involved. Coaching is not a job, it’s a lifestyle. I bet he works more than a regular 9-5. So a lot of things to consider for him. We can only assume things, but I think if Pete’ll stay then it’s more likely RW will stay (not a deciding thing for the contract negotiations, but can weigh in a bit)
I highly doubt Pete Carroll’s family are telling him, in his late 60’s with grown up children also on the staff, what to do.
It’s something fans talk about too much. Carroll said himself he plans five years at a time. He’s just signed a new deal. He won’t ever think short term.
Colorado S Evan Worthington is this year’s Obi Melifonwu.
Georgia TE Isaac Nauta is a junkyard dog. Watch out for Georgia LT Andrew Thomas next year. Whoo.
He’s getting love here at SDB, but ‘Bama’s Christian Miller is gonna be a steal. Eats, sleeps, and breathes football according to Nick Saban.
W. Virginia WR David Wills reminds me of former Cal wideout Chad Hansen.
Wazzu RB James Williams is one of the best pass catching backs I can remember. Great backstory/overcame adversity at a young age too.
He’s been clean since he arrived on campus, but LSU LB Devin White made some…odd choices. Like sleeping w/ a 14 year old.
* David Sills.
Georgia HB D’Andre Swift IMO is gonna be one of the best prospects overall in the 2020 class. Special talent.
Miller is massively underrated. Stats fairly similar to Montez Sweat but asked to do a much more rounded role. Similar athlete. Similar size. Much better character situation.
+ 1 million
Mocked him to us in my 1st mock draft of this year and haven’t backed off it one bit.
And I’ve seen videos of the little details he does well too if you really look.
I’m intrigued by Nauta. Haven’t really studied him, but have seen a couple clips of him floating around Twitter that makes me think the Seahawks might be interested and I’m eager to take a closer look.
Maybe that’s the Georgia guy you were looking for above. (Although, tbh, why the heck would you NOT scout Georgia??? So much talent.)
NFL Network’s Daniel Jeremiah says TCU’s LJ Collier could be a target of Oakland late in the first round.
If they tag Frank this year and don’t get a deal done, then they in a poor bargaining position next year with 4 players – arguably the core of the team – with Clark, RW, Wags and Reed on expired contracts.
IMO, it’s vital that they get a deal done with Frank. I think they know this and that is why they aren’t talking with the RW camp yet.
Love everything you do Rob, but I just can’t see the Seahawks drafting a QB at all, even if they trade back this year.
There’s a lot of talent gaps on the roster – we’re very thin at position groups. LB, DB (CB and S), WR, TE all come to mind. This roster can’t afford to use a pick, especially a Round 1-3 pick, on a QB that won’t help them get back to the playoffs in 2019.
Just pay Russell whatever he wants, build the team around him, and lets push for another title.
I would urge anyone who views this situation in such a way to think long term. Building and sustaining a team isn’t about just filling your holes year to year. You plan ahead. You’ve listed a few positions there. Some of those needs will be filled in the draft. Some will be filled in free agency. This doesn’t mean they can’t/won’t draft a QB.
‘Just pay Russell what he wants’ isn’t the problem here. That’s the wrong way at looking at this. Russell probably isn’t even making a demand for what he wants. It’d be wrong to assume it’s even Wilson’s ambition to just get a deal done in Seattle. He may well be looking at how Kirk Cousins earned an absolute fortune playing on the tag and then reaching free agency. He could be saying, ‘I will take the franchise tag thank you very much’. And if that is the way this goes — and to me it’s quite likely — you’re going year-to-year and counting down the days to a possible divorce.
That is not a situation where you cover your eyes and ears, hope for the best and say ‘we won’t draft a QB because hey we need a third tight end’. Not at all.
On the other hand, if they let Wilson play out his current contract and then franchise tag him twice, then the Seahawks will have three drafts to find a replacement.
If the Seahawks had all their picks this year then I would think they would make a serious attempt to find a replacement. Serious meaning a first round attempt. This draft is already shot due to only having four picks and a shortage of QBs worth picking. So that leaves the next two drafts in 2020 and 2021.
You just keep repeating this without any acknowledgement of the counters presented to you.
I’m simply presenting a timeline for drafting a replacement QB and commenting that this would be a poor draft for them to find a replacement in. They also have Paxton Lynch to develop- perhaps he will improve. One of his strengths is throwing the long pass.
You guys have already discussed all the angles until they have become circles.
You’ve also been presented with a list of counters that you fail to address, only to repeat the same points.
For example, here again you say this would be a ‘bad draft’ to take a QB. Last time you added next year would be better. I put to you… why will it? Are you assuming it’s better because Tua will be a high pick? Or Herbert? Which guys are better in R2-3 than Grier? Why is next year preferable given the Seahawks won’t be picking in the top 10? You haven’t explained this.
That’s just one of the points.
Why don’t you just tell Russell: “You’re the best QB we’ve ever had in this franchise. We will pay you anything short of $40m APY right now and build the team around you if you commit to the team long term.” and just throw money at the problem and see if that solves it.
Because honestly, I can live with Russell walking away from the Seahawks’ offering a true market setting deal because he wants to set the market and hit free agency. It would hurt my fandom for the man very much, but I can live with that decision. Go get your money, careers in the NFL are short.
What I CANNOT live with is the Seahawks trying to be cheap with the best QB we’ve ever had in the history of the franchise. If they’re not willing to offering Wilson a true top dollar, market setting deal, then honestly Schneider should probably be fired. They already disrespected him once by making him sign a deal that was under Aaron Rodgers’ deal when comparatively worse QBs (e.g., Luck, Stafford, Matt Ryan, Derek Carr) got to set the market when it was their turn.
Imagine every other player who they would negotiate with after that. ‘You just paid Russell Wilson seven million dollars a year more than the highest paid player in the entire league’. What a position to negotiate from!
And I’ll say it again. You assume Wilson even wants to negotiate. Seattle aren’t being ‘cheap’ if the quarterback is hell bent on the franchise tag. And the solution to this is not to pay him $39.9m a year!!
There’s no position more important than QB. And besides, it’s not like a 7m jump year over year isn’t that unaccounted for when it comes to the QB position with today’s cap. In 2018, Rodgers got $6.5m more than the prior year’s high water mark (Matt Stafford in 2017), and he jumped the highest QB that had been at the time, Matt Ryan, by 3.5m APY. What I offered is HIGH, but its not INSANE.
If Russell turned down a true, top-of-the-market setting deal with Seattle to hit free agency, then I could live with it. I don’t think he would, but if he turned down $40m APY to try the free market, that’s his prerogative. You can’t do anything about that if Pete and John have burned the bridge with Russell by foolishly investing in rapidly depreciating assets (See, e.g., Kam, Lynch, Bennett) instead of building around the best QB we’ve ever had.
What I can’t live with is the Seahawks killing all attempts at negotiation by offering him lower than Aaron Rodgers again. Imagine WILLINGLY going back to the 90s where we tried QB after QB, including 710 ESPN’s Brock Huard, and nothing worked – wasting the career of Cortez Kennedy. Imagine going back to the 2000s, where we were ecstatic to have mediocre talent at the QB position even though we wasted a god-tier O-line and probably the best RB in franchise history.
I don’t want another QB until Russell retires. Do whatever it takes to make it happen, and if it still doesn’t, well, then it is what is is, but at least you tried.
I’ll say it again…
The Seahawks aren’t going to offer him $40m a year that would be madness.
The Seahawks aren’t ‘killing’ anything if he doesn’t want to negotiate because he prefers the tag.
I think you have laid out a rational, coherent argument for why we may take a QB. But, at the risk of stirring the pot, you really can’t reason with Wilson fanboys on this issue.
To be fair, I’m not sure it’s about fanboyism. I think people want the team to be a contender in 2019 and see a longer than normal list of needs and think that by spending every pick on a non-QB this team will be a serious playoff threat. The problem is twofold. One, I don’t think they will be anyway. Two, they can’t think short term. This isn’t a team in position to be ‘all-in’ on 2019. They’ll be competitive, just as they were in 2018 against expectations. But they also need to be mindful of the future. Because this Wilson situation is going to DOMINATE this club for a couple of years or until a resolution occurs (one way or another). If, as I suspect, Wilson is preparing to play on the franchise tag, it gets very serious. You’re suddenly year-to-year on your QB. It increases the possibility he leaves. It makes the timescale for a deal much shorter. Drafting a QB is imperative to insure yourself. Now, if one isn’t there, you clearly don’t force the issue. But if there is one available you believe in and like — you go for it. Because you have to. You can’t push this further down the line. Not anymore.
I think some people don’t realize the seriousness of this situation or are slightly too focused on the here and now and not the bigger picture. Which is perfectly fine — I just hope they’re not shocked and surprised by anything that happens over the next year or two.
Like I said, I really think you have laid out a very thoughtful, rational case for why the Seahawks may very well draft a QB. I agree with all your points. But I really do think there are a lot of RW fans who think he walks on water. That he would be the GOAT, putting up Drew Brees like numbers, if only our coaches (or OL, or WR’s…) weren’t holding him back. People who are Wilson fans first and foremost, and Seahawk fans second.
I think there are fans out there who down play what Pete and John did in building a team that went to SB48 and 49. There are those that think it’s all because of Wilson. I’ve seen people make an argument that the only difference between the 2011 and 2013 Seahawks was Russell Wilson.
When it comes to the Wilson situation if PCJS don’t try to see the forest through the trees as you have laid out it would be madness. But there are those that somehow feel that Wilson is the only thing that matters for this team going forward.
Rob, was it madness when Rodgers got 6.5m more than Matt Stafford and 3.5m more than Matt Ryan?
36m gets him the same 19% of the cap as Aaron Rodgers got.
38m gets him 20% of the cap which would be a record and really show him the respect he deserves.
40m is pretty high but not crazy. They’re saying Patrick Mahomes will already be a 40m APY QB, why not pay our guy the same amount? He’s done more for us than Mahomes did for the Chiefs.
All I’m saying is that while he might prefer the tag – and we don’t know that he does, nobody is going to turn down a truckload of guaranteed money and a record-setting deal.
There’s a difference between Rodgers earning $3.5m more than Matt Ryan and the Seahawks paying Wilson $6m more than Rodgers.
It still feels like you’re assuming the Seahawks are the stubborn party here. If Wilson’s bargaining angle is to play on the tag — it’s all a moot point.
And the Seahawks aren’t the ones telling Schefter they haven’t talked or Cowherd that the Giants are a preferred destination.
Personally, I’m not tied to the $40m number – but it represents the idea that I want the Seahawks to go for -> Make Wilson the focal point. He’s the future, not the defense, not Pete, but Wilson. Lock him down here for 5 years and then hopefully 5 years more after that.
Even IF Wilson was the stubborn party, I just think that Wilson’s desire to play on the tag, go elsewhere in free agency, and get a mega deal—such as that desire exists, if it does—would be superseded if the Seahawks give him a mega deal now that blows all other contracts away and shows that he’s not just the present for our team, but the future as well (e.g., extending him past Pete’s contract).
And there was some evidence that the Seahawks lowballed Wilson – that they WERE the stubborn party last time. And you only need to compare how the Colts treated Luck to see how a franchise QB should be treated by his front office.
The one thing that is often overlooked is the long range perspective of the player, when looked upon as a “Franchise QB.” In other words, who is a happier person, Cousins or Brady? Sure, Cousins will get his $200 mil, but he hasn’t even won a playoff game, much less a championship?
What motivates high profile players, more so than an extra $3-5 mil/yr, is the ability to build a legacy that will be worth much more in time. Brady has built his legacy making much less per yr than a majority of these franchise QBs. He was fully aware of what it would take to build a legacy.
Russell, is made of the same cloth. He has modeled his approach to “Greats,” such as Jordan & Jeter, in creating his own brand, right here in the PNW. He is a very talented and intelligent player that is thinking beyond his playing days, and well into the future.
Some of the riches people in the world are right here in the PNW. He’s playing were the money is, now, and in the foreseeable future. Why would he leave such a framework that will benefit him, not only now but in the future?
Yes, negotiations will get frayed somewhat, that’s would agents do for the best interest of their clients. But, Russ is smart enough to know when to look in the best interest of the team that will help him to build his legacy, as a Seahawk. You all know his motto, mentioned after all of his public appearances. We should take his word for it. I believe he really means it.
You’re assuming what’s in Wilson’s mind.
We don’t know what he wants.
Actually, making assumptions is the last thing that I strive to do, when it comes to someone else’s thoughts, or aspirations. That’s really not my place to do so, personally. I guess I’m naive enough to believe a person when he says something, until he proves otherwise.
Russell has said nothing that would lead me to believe that he doesn’t want to stay here, to win championships. All I here from him is that he’s “working to become better, to build a championship offseason, working to become the greatest that has ever done it.” And what he’s doing hasn’t alter that perspective.
The noise of him relocating to NY, supposedly coming from the entertainment industry, was primarily an assumption, not based on the congruities that he’s displayed while being here, as the franchise QB.
Of course, no one can really determine what an individual wants out of life. Some, for that matter, don’t even know themselves. Russell has, from the beginning at rookie training camp, displayed a singular focus upon being great, not only in the field, but also off the field, personally. His leadership capabilities commands respect, in the way he handles himself. So, when he says things like this, I tend to believe what he says, than assume or speculate otherwise:
Feb. 4, 2013: http://www.nfl.com/videos/seattle-seahawks/0ap2000000136097/Russell-Wilson-on-Seahawks-bright-future
Jan. 7, 2019:
https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/article224004115.html
Pete feels the same way about Russell’s future with the Seahawks, as he stated earlier this year, Jan. 7, 2019: “We’re talking about all of that, yeah,” Carroll stated on Monday when asked about Wilson’s long-term future. “Russ and I met yesterday and we’re talking about the future and we’re talking about where we’re going and what we want to get done. That’s very much in our plans.”
By the way Rob, this was an excellent piece that you’ve presented. There’s a great deal of time and research that you put into this article. Thanks for all that you do, sincerely.
Cowherd said the New York Giants link came from ‘the agent world’ to be fair.
And thanks for the kind words and robust debate.
Just stating something that everyone agrees upon. Keep up the good work! Also, I guess we’re both right. He called it, “The Entertainment Agent World.”
My mistake, he did indeed say that.
Hey Rob, what’s your opinion on Frank Clark’s tweet saying the Seahawks should pick Irvin? I’m not sure how I feel about, although, he should be affordable and add a nice veteran presence that already knows the scheme. I would love a Brandon Graham signing more, as he can play inside and out.
Also what’s going on with DeAndre Walker’s stock? Could he slip into the 3rd?
I’m happy for them to re-sign Bruce as long as he’s not the only addition to the pass rush. The more options the better. I agree on Graham if he’s affordable, or Anthony Barr, Terrell Suggs etc.
D’Andre Walker picked up an injury at the end of the season and missed the Senior Bowl and will not workout at the combine. That’s preventing him from gaining any momentum. He could be there in R3. It’s not impossible. Really good player though.
Walker was impressive in that SEC championship game. It would awesome if they could get him in round 3. Lots to work with. Hawks need some nasty setting the edge. Mingo and Calitro are fine depth but I’d love to see a high ceiling prospect in the LB corps.
We all know that Seattle needs to trade down. And John Schneider is as good as anyone in finding a partner to trade with. But Schneider still has to find a partner to trade down with. Remember there are more teams looking to trade down. Then there are teams looking to trade up.
I am hoping(and praying) that Schneider will find someone to trade with. But it is NOT a guarentee that Schneider finds a trading partner. Do I think that Schneider will find a trading partner? But it is NOT a guarentee.
Remember. In 2011 Schneider wanted to trade down. But he could find the right deal. So they ended up taking James Carpenter.
They didn’t only have four picks in 2011.
They will trade down this year. Guaranteed.
As they say Rob, “you can put it in your pipe and smoke it”. Beyond a lock they move down.
This really does hurt the bargaining power Of the hawks though. They have no leverage when it’s going to come to these negotiations. With the draft being deep, it’s going to be had to find someone that’s worth moving up for. The best bet for a trade down is if someone that’s supposed to go higher (ie. Clemson three) drops. Even then don’t expect the hawks to come out on top of any trade down. Because I agree with Rob, and we are desperate to add more picks. Other GMs are going to know that.
And if a blue chip falls they won’t stick? You can use more than the picks you have to acquire more. How many they got for 2020? 7-8?
It’s not realistic V12.
There’s just no realistic way they’re going to be content picking about five times in this draft having spent even more future draft stock to buy an extra pick. What are you going to do? Give up a 2020 second rounder for another third? It’d be a total waste.
We all know they’re moving down from #21. Nobody falling to #21 is going to entice them. Otherwise they wouldn’t have dropped to #21.
They are going to want to bring in a bushel of players no doubt. More than 4. Does it have to be our #21 pick that gets traded? Short answer is no. If there’s a guy they absolutely love at #21 they can make that selection & trade down or out of the 3rd round and go crazy in the UDFA market. Remember the trade that landed us Tyler Lockett?
Seahawks trade up with Washington to pick #69 for picks #95, #112, #167 & #181.
Something like that would put them at 7 picks.
Am I betting on it? No. Doesn’t mean it cannot happen.
Yes, it does have to be #21.
Seattle traded up to pick #69 to get Lockett. The Seahawks don’t pick this year until pick #85. That’s a 16 pick difference — a full half round. It’s unrealistic to think they’d get anything like a similar deal to the Lockett trade.
Also, there’s no way you can bank on a team wanting to do a Lockett-style trade three rounds into the draft. You can plan and prepare ahead in round one. Teams aren’t ringing around before the start of the draft to talk about pick #85 like they are for picks in round one. It’s highly realistic you wait until #85 and your trade isn’t there. Then what? Have to handle having four picks? Start trying to accumulate seventh rounders by edging down a few picks at a time?
The reality is they will have offers at #21 because there are always offers in round one. You move back, secure a much fuller board and do what you do.
Who said the Hawks only had 4 picks in the 2011 draft? I know one thing. Pete Carrol’s face told it all. In stead of being happy. He looked like he had just come out of a funeral.
If I was a betting man I would say they will trade down. John Schneider will do everything he can to trade down. But I am not about to guarantee anything.
Errr… nobody said they had four picks in 2011. I made reference to that to point out the indisputable fact that there’s no similarity between 2011 and 2019. If they only had four picks in 2011, there’s a very good chance they would’ve ‘found’ a deal that suited them.
I’m happy to guarantee they trade down from #21 for both of us. And if either of us were betting men — I doubt the bookies would even be offering odds. It’d be printing money having a bet on Seattle trading down. It’s happening. We all know it.
Tony P has us selecting Brian Burns #21 & DeAndre Baker #84 in his 3 rd pre combine mock fwiw.
Rob, I don’t do Patreon since they screwed over Sargon of Akkad, so is it safe to send you an Amazon gift card to the email address posted on the blog? I’d really like to support the great work you do…
Rumor on the street is that Bruce Irvin might be headed back to Seattle.
This is the second or third time we’ve heard his name mentioned, but I guess he had some big love on twitter earlier today for the Seahawks. And it also appears (in-between the lines) that he didn’t have such a good time in Atlanta.
Hell yeah! Was hoping for that this season when Oakland cut him.
Not sure I agree on the WR section. I think Deebo might surprise some people. Obviously not Lockett-like athlete with his size, but he’s not slow. And I’d add Renfrow to the “players to watch” list. He might not be in the first 5 WRs off the board, but he could be a good 3rd round addition.
Really-really great article by the way. Thanks for getting this walk-through for us. As I read it, I start to feel more and more they might double-down on LB if the board falls right.
They could use immediate help: Mingo is not a great player (he’s OK, but I have a feeling that a really good rookie might push him out). KJ has some injury concerns and he might not even return. Bobby is playing a ton. This kind of snap count is just too much to maintain for the long term. Kendricks is a question mark for now. We totally lack the depth at this position and we might have some OLB question marks. Getting two talented OLBs cannot hurt us.
As for the CBs, I don’t think it will be a highlighted spot, but I don’t get how could you miss Isaiah Johnson from the players to watch list. He’s a prototypical Seahawks CB:
Height: 6-2. Weight: 207. Arm: 33.63. Hand: 8.25
Won’t be too fast, but I doubt he’ll be really slow. Probably a Maxwell-like CB. But he likes the kickstep technique (although he needs to get better at it, but he has some experience with it already).
On Deebo —- merely relaying some of the questions people, including scouts, have. His forty time is a question mark. We get to see him run soon.
On Isaiah Johnson —- there are lots of other names I couldve mentioned in every position group.
Having seen his week in Mobile and taking into account the crop of horribly performing WR at the combine (Antonio Brown included) I would still love the Hawks to grab him if they can trade down and do it.
I’m not for a second suggesting they shouldn’t consider drafting Deebo Samuel.
I’m merely highlighting one of the things he has to address with his workout performance.
Sorry, I absolutely hate Metcalf, but for some reason have a good feeling about Deebo…Even if he’s not that fast, I just have a gut feeling that he can be special (not top 5 WR in the league special, but underrated #2 WR who might even appear in some pro bowls in the future special).
Rob, what are your thoughts on the potential for Griffin moving back to the RCB spot, Tre Flowers taking over on the left side, and Griffin moving inside in nickel formations, given his high level of athleticism lending itself to covering the shiftier receivers? Flowers, assuming he continues improving along the lines of what we saw his first year, would provide a consistent presence in the #1 CB role, while a draft pick in the mold of Seattle’s preference at outside CB or developmental prospect (e.g. Simeon Thomas) would have the opportunity for playing time at RCB in nickel situations.
Any insight as to Griffin’s ability to cover in the slot, as opposed to his usual outside role? Am I being to optimistic that a draft pick or someone could come in first year and even play part time outside (i.e. were Flowers and Griffin too much of the exception in that regard)?
I thought at UCF he did his worst work dealing with coverage inside to be honest. I’d rather keep him in his position in 2019 and have someone compete with him, rather than keep moving him around.
Niners tag Robbie Gould. Shame.
I just saw that on ESPN. Really wanted Gould, he only missed 1 kick in 2018 and 2 in 2017! Great article and podcast Rob, listened to it last night. You and Branden work together very well on the Seahawkers podcast. Hope to hear you back on there a few days or week after the combine for a recap.
Terrible that we’re missing that 2nd rounder with all the great players likely to be day 2 draftees. Will be extremely happy if we trade down 2-3 times and get 3 of these 4 guys – Terry McLaurin, LJ Collier, D’Andre Walker and Khalen Saunders, but that seems unlikely since they’ll all probably be gone by the late 2nd to mid-3rd round.
Brandan and I are planning on doing a daily 20 minute podcast reviewing each day at the combine
Time to draft a kicker then, right?
Go get Gostkowski
Nah- They will do something extremely seahawky and sign Cody Parkey to kick (errr… attempt) the xps and fgs next season.
Are 1st round picks almost too much duress for JS/PC? Just not enough value? Does the risk outweigh the reward for them? Or is it what PC said 3 years ago. ‘The learning curve is the same for a 1st rounder as it is a day 3 guy.’ Has trading back and grabbing guys that every team passed on in the 1st worked?
I don’t see it that way. I think they simply look for value. Most of the legit first rounders on their board are gone when they pick. They have an average draft position of #24 overall in the PCJS era. So if the player you take at #24 has the same grade (or is even the same player) that you’d take at #30-35, why wouldn’t you trade down?
And in a draft like this one or a year ago — they were aggressive to try and win and left themselves with limited stock. That forces their arm to trade down.
We’re just about at the combine and MMQB has 5 mock drafts already?!? Seattle won’t even start to set their board until after the IV’s, like…WTF?
Speaking of MMQB, rumor is Brian Burns weighs somewhere in the mid to high 240’s.
Will be big for him if true but will need to convince teams he can keep that on. He’s never been that weight before so I’m sceptical. Not a great source either. Lance Zierlein lists him at 227lbs.
What’s the most important drill in the combine for some of you guys (and gals)?
Explosive tests for linemen, 10-yard for edge rushers, agility for players moving in space.
Hard to single out one for all positions, so I’ll just go with short area agility (3C or SS) for defense and explosiveness (vert and broad jumps) for offense.
Whether it’s Nauta, someone in the group Rob memntiond, or someone we haven’t keyed in on, they gotta tap into this TE group. It’s too good and there might not be another one like it for quite awhile.
Glad you mentioned Nauta. I hope they do look into him. Former 5 star recruit. Offense was focused on the running backs obviously with Chubb, Michel and others for much of his time. Gritty guy. Solid blocker from what I have seen. But this guy can catch too. Good athlete. If they are forecasting Hokenson based on tools, this guy is in the next tier.
Keep an eye on Trevon Wesco with WVU.
Jim Nagy was just on ESPN talking QBs. A few interesting take aways.
1. When asked about what QB he would hang his hat on, he said Drew Loch. Said had he come out last year, there would have been discussion about him being taken tops.
2. He thinks Jarret Stidham has the best pure passing mechanics of any QB in this class and is starter potential. More interestingly, he said they were scouting him at an Auburn practice right after his Baylor transfer and were especially impressed. He asked the Auburn coaches if he always threw like that in practice, and they said yes. Stidham on Seattle’s radar?
3. He was more tempered on Haskins and Murray and said that he wants to look at tape to see how they threw under duress. Said neither faced much pressure and Murray threw behind the best line in CFB.
I think a defensive tackle might be a higher need than a defensive end. Dave Wyman is predicting a breakout season for Jacob Martin.
They are both needs.
It was fun, and encouraging, to watch Martin develop last year. But I’m not sure he will have enough sand in his pants to be an every down DE. Chris Clemons wasn’t huge, though, and he could play on more than just passing downs.
I think we need one more of both DT and DE.
Lil: I agree the Hawks could use both another DT/DE. But the Hawks could use another cornerback, linebacker(Maybe two depending on if the Hawks signs Michael Kendricks). The Hawks can also use another OL, another receiver. If Mike Davis leaves they could use another running back. They could also use a place kicker. Plus the Hawks could use more depth on the OL. Not to mention a reliable QB.
Reliable QB?
Yes let’s find one of those. Let’s trade Russ and then just draft one with all the picks we would be? Lol. 🙁
Dave Wyman is is my favorite Seahawks voice. Behind Rob, Brock and Kenneth…
And I think you and Rob are probably both right on this one.
Looks like John Ross is on the trade block. Would be interesting to see what price the Bungles are asking for. I think he can still be solid with better coaching.
I think he’d be a pretty good fit here, but he’s still raw and idk if he’s gonna be worth what the Bengals will likely want. Then again I could see them trading him just for something small like swapping 5th ans 7th round picks.
He could be our deep threat, and is really good on crossing routes, especially in the red zone, as shown last year. Could get a lot of screen work. Him and PRich are basically the same person in my eyes, Ross just needs to stay healthy so he can keep improving.
Why would anyone give up anything for Ross and have to take on his contract as a #7 overall pick? Teams will just wait for him to be released.
I was never a fan because of size, injury history and he seemed to play timid. If they brought him in to try him out after he was released then fine but I really hope they would not consider trading for him.
I think Ross’ dead money will make it tough for the Bengals to move him, or even release him. Fully guaranteed contract only to give up on him halfway through? And when they already had an elite WR in AJ Green? That’s just Al Davis level bad. Bengals kind of painted themselves into a corner.
He’s made of paper and never been able to get away from a press. Absolutely plays timid Trev.
I haven’t watched any of his games with Cincy.
I do remember him putting up 3 TDs vs. press coverage when the UW played Oregon and hung 70 on them.
Matt Harmon charted every one of his college snaps in his draft year and noted that he posted the 4th-best success rate vs. press coverage of any draftable WR that year and was in the 78th percentile for all WRs over a two-year span.
So either something drastically changed in the NFL, or you have let a few bad snaps color your perception of what Ross can and can’t do. He beat press in college by absolutely shaking guys out of their cleats at the LOS, just like Doug Baldwin. Including 1st-round DBs. I would absolutely be a fan of getting him out of Cincy.
There are (2) FA signings that I hope are entertained by JS/PC & company, for the defense. One may not count against comp considerations, due to being released as a cap casualty. The other will count, but may be low enough that, at most, it not drastically change the amount of picks they should have in 2020.
The 1st is Robert Quinn and the latter is Brent Urban. Both will fill needs that they have at DE and 3T. Both will be a year older in May of this year. Quinn will be 29, and Urban will be 28. I’ve mentioned Quinn before, as a probable solution for pass rush opposite of Clark.
There has been recent chatter of Irving being that possible solution. I’m not negating that possibility at all. As the old adage goes, “You can never have enough pass rushers.” In fact, Irving would be the OLB that could play wide 9 on pass rush situations, and Clark, or Quinn, could come from the B-gap, along with Green playing 3T.
Quinn could be invaluable for the development of Martin & Green as well a Clark, for veteran moves that they can glean from.
Brent Urban is a low risk but high reward type signing. There have been injury concerns with his foot, that may have the Ravens ready to move on from him. He had a $1mil base salary with $100,000 bonus, with incentives. A one year prove it deal could perhaps entice the Canadian to come to the PNW to play a little closer to the border.
He’s very stout against the run and has a great push up the middle. At 6 – 7 ft, he reminds me of the “Big Amigo.” When healthy, he can be a force in the middle.
I was a big fan of Brent Urban pre-draft. The injury history is a worry though.
A Lisfranc injury can be debilitating, but not career threatening injury. The injury occured after playing just (3) games in 2017, causing him to miss the remainder of the season. He played all 16 games in 2018, having more tackles than the previous (3) seasons combined.
It looks as though he has put the injury behind him. I think the best is ahead for Mr. Urban. A new start may be the best thing for him.
The Ravens had Urban in a 3-4, (2) down lineman stance that would face constant double team pressure. Placing him in a more natural 4-3 3T position would show an increase in his numbers, in creating pressure on the QB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uQjjJkWZVE
He has had more than one mere lisfranc injury. He’s had loads of issues.
Would love to see Quinn in a Hawks uniform. He could be similar to the Cliff Avril addition of a few years ago, and at 29 should have a few good years left.
He may have grown accustomed to big paydays though, so could easily price the Hawks out of his market. Let’s hope he has interest in playing against his old team (Rams) twice each year after they somewhat surprisingly dumped him.
Not as familiar with Urban, but if he’s amenable to an affordable prove-it deal then sign him up as well.
I think Quinn will be motivated to play not only against his former team twice, maybe (3) times a year, but also to have the opportunity to win a championship. He has made quite a bit of money throughout the years. Not being disrespected is the key for him, along with the prospect of getting a ring.
JS could make it palatable for Quinn with 15 mil guaranteed signing bonus, spread out over a 3 yr for 27 mil
contract, with incentives. He may just bring that 19 sack terror back to the division, only not against the hawks this time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdJxtDOiHU
If they sign Quinn I’d only want a one year arrangement.
Obviously, it’s 6ft – 7inches, not 7ft.
I have studied and compared results of six LEO that was drafted by seahawks (+Avril). I use data’s from mockdraftable.com. % for Avril and Irvin are for OLB , and for Clark , Gwacham and Marsh are for edge and for Martin I took something between.
here are results:
40y 10y split short shuttle 3 cone
time/% time/% time/% time/%
Frank Clark 4.66/86% 1.58/91% 4.05/97% 7.08/72%
Bruce Irvin 4.5/93% 1.55/85% 4.03/96% 6.7/94%
Cliff Avril 4.51/92% 1.51/96% 4.51/8% 6.9/81%
Obum Gwacham 4.72/75% 1.67/36% 4.28/81% 7.28/41%
Cassius Marsh 4.7/76% 1.66/40% 4.25/84% 7.08/72%
Jacob Martin 4.59/90% 1.68/28% 4.44/35% 6.9/81%
So, only for 40 yards all 6 are above 75% and high round picks are above 85%.
10y split is extremly important for top talents and first two round picks but obviously not for later rounds…
Short shuttle is important but Avril had only 4,51 which is 8% tile and that is really strange…
And 3 cone all exept Gwachum are above 70% tile…
Bruce really was a sick athlete. Martin was a better tester than I remembered.
If Martin and Green can take the next step this offseason the pass rush is going to look a whole lot better next season.
I think it kinda goes without saying, but I’m gonna say it anyways. I think these tests are all important, but I think the best way to project them into talent on the field is by looking at each player and how many of them are above a certain percentile. Say 80%
The Seahawks by this logic probably look for guys who hit 80% in at least 2 tests. They all fit this except for Gwachum, a late round flyer who just misses the mark, and Marsh, who almost had 3 tests at 80%.
Martin hits 80 and 90. He’s a baller too.
Avril hits 90, 96, and 80, beast.
Frank hits 86, 90 and 97, lucky to get him in the 2nd due to character concerns.
Bruce hits 93, 94, 96, and 85. This would explain why they wanted him so bad.
Not saying this is how they do it, but it would make sense. Although this is a limited sample size. I for one want to look into this more, so I’ll be keeping an eye on this for all the edge rushers.
What about Rufus Porter?
I made a table. it is much more transparent . 🙂
https://imgur.com/a/x6dYDeQ
OK, wild thought:
If the Cards would pick Murray #1 they would want to trade Rosen.
Rosen was sort of a disappointment (not sure how much of that is on him, and the FO of the Cards)
You wouldn’t get a first round pick for Rosen, not sure about a 2nd round either.
How improbable would be a trade like:
Seahawks give 1/21, next year’s 5th round
Cardinals give Rosen, 3rd round, 6th round 7th round
Seahawks would get 3 picks for their 1st round pick and a backup/leverage QB
Cardinals would get a first round pick and a 5th in next year’s draft.
They are loaded in the 6th, 7th round
Yeah, Hawks are in the same group as they’re, but Rosen would be mainly a backup and leverage for the RW contract talks. This could help the new FO because if they trade Rosen to another team who would definitely start him and Rosen would be great it would be awkward for them (especially if Murray would not work out). If Rosen would only be a backup for the Hawks, this could be a pretty good trade for the Cardinals.
Only issue if Rosen works out well and RW contract talks sinks, Rosen starts and play great. That would hurt the Arizona FO.
I’m not sure how good/fine/OK/bad is Rosen. But this could give the Hawks a young, but somewhat experienced QB, they would also get another 3rd round, 6th and 7th round pick (make their pick number 6 with a need fulfilled with Rosen). This would be also a warning for Russ. They traded for a QB, you need to sign a contract if you want to stay here.
And this could give the Cardinals a bit risky but if we see it from another side safe trade for Rosen. They would get another 1st round pick and a 5th for next year and free up some money
I can just see Wilson and his team going in to talk to PC/JS….
“Rosen? That’s your “leverage?” Rosen? I’m insulted and for that your price just went up. Starting point is $42m/yr.”
I think Dani and Rob’s point is being lost here. Having Rosen or Grier and going into talks wouldn’t be saying that either are as good as RW and could compete with him, the point in having either would be to say that we aren’t going to be missing a QB if RW is traded or moves on. I personally am not a fan of Rosen, but this scenario is interesting, because it would beg the question, if your going to trade back and take grier with the first pick, who is better prospect Rosen or Grier? I actually like Grier, but i still think Rosen is probably a better prospect. If this could allow us to trade RW, and exploit next years class, i would do it. As you have mentioned Rob, we aren’t even sure if we are a contender, and this draft isn’t going to make us a contender as it stands, bring in Rosen, let him develop a little more, caring less of a load, we could really build our team and load up for another run after 2019. Its just a thought, as i do agree this RW situation could get messy. But i also work in NY, so Giants are number 2 team and can still root for RW.
Not worth missing out on the first 2 rounds of this year’s draft to pick up a guy like Rosen, especially with his contract.
I don’t think Rosen is likely a Pete Carroll kinda kinda guy. I think Grier more likely is. Don’t think Rosen would be happy in this offense playing “point guard” if they moved away from RW. Grier, Finley, or Stidham might be more fine with that and fit those skill sets and mentality. IMO, it might take a specific character who would be fine quarterbacking this style of offense. Don’t think Rosen is likely that.
Agree with you guys, I’m not a big fan of Rosen and I don’t think he’s as much of a fit as RW for this offense. Rosen was bad as a rookie, but the Arizona FO didn’t help him that much either.
It’s not a question about missing out the first 2 rounds, because the question might be something more like this:
1, trade back to early second and getting something like a 3rd, 5th, 6th (mid-late picks in those rounds)
Picking Grier with our second round pick.
Net: Grier, draft picks left: mid 3rd, our 3rd, our 4th, mid 5th, our 5th, mid-late 6th for example
2, trade with Cards for Rosen. Getting some picks for our 1st and Rosen and lose like a next year 5th
Net: Rosen, draft picks left: 3rd pick of the 3rd round (!), our 3rd, our 4th, our 5th, early 6th, early 7th
(also lost 2020 5th round)
As for draft capital, I think this is a pretty even situation.
As for QBs, I think Grier is a better fit but totally unproven. Rosen has some issues and not sure about fitting, but he has some pro experience
If we wanna select a QB sacrificing our first pick I like the Grier scenario a bit more (although I’m not a big fan of selecting a QB I know it can be a necessity). But if Murray goes top5-10, and someone likes Grier and select him in top 18-20 and we can pull the trigger for a trade with the Cardinals….I think Rosen might be a better prospect then Finley or other rookie QBs.
But this is simply a thought experiment. I highly doubt something like this would happen
Here are the OL with +35″ arms:
Florida OL Martez Ivey
Height: 6-5
Weight: 315
Hand: 10 3/8
Arm: 36 2/8
Wingspan: 86 2/8
Morgan State OT Joshua Miles
Height: 6-5
Weight: 314
Hand: 10 6/8
Arm: 35 5/8
Wingspan: 84 7/8
Ohio St. OT Isaiah Prince
Height: 6-6 4/8
Weight: 305
Hand: 10 1/8
Arm: 35 4/8
Wingspan: 84 4/8
Elon OT Oli Udoh
Height: 6-5 4/8
Weight: 323
Hand: 10
Arm: 35 3/8
Wingspan: 85 1/8
Mississippi OT Greg Little
Height: 6-5 2/8
Weight: 310
Hand: 10 2/8
Arm: 35 2/8
Wingspan: 85
Minnesota OT Donnell Greene
Height: 6-5 2/8
Weight: 335
Hand: 9 4/8
Arm: 35 2/8
Wingspan: 83
Florida OT Jawaan Taylor
Height: 6-5
Weight: 312
Hand (right): 9 6/8
Hand (left): 10
Arm: 35 1/8
Wingspan: 84 6/8
Thanks for comprising this list Seamode. Senior Bowl standout USC OT Chuma Edoga has 34 6/8 inch arms. Tony Pauline praised Joshua Miles all week at the Shrine game practices for his strength and speed/agility. He said an unnamed NFL person said he could eventually start, was a little raw now but had all the tools, and was the only one who could stop some of the east squad DTs, mainly Rutgers’ Chris Slayton as I remember.
Full list of height, weight, hand size, arm lengths and wingspans for OL, RBs, QBs, punters and kickers: https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Also found this list of dates for upcoming Pro Days: https://footballmaven.io/nfldraftscout/news/2019-pro-day-workout-dates-announced-yBdbWs_BY0-eloNOoFopQw/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KY3jyelNpheEC9cIauXKeBWU6k1W5O-6IjJ5zcyy_vo/edit#gid=136428413
2019 NFL draft database, google spread sheet. Currently updated with measurements, also underlined names have scouting reports & stats, includes full game films linked for most players – all in one spot so you don’t have to scroll through tweets or go to 10 different websites. A wonderful resource for all of us draft followers. Seems to be rapidly updated too. —-> Check it out, you’ll be surprised.
Yeah, I got all the measurements from Robinson. But just be aware, it’s not a full list, at least for QBs.
Edoga does look like a high-upside project for someone. I’m interested to find out if the Ohio St. kid has anything to his game, if nothing else, just because he comes from that big program.
You’re right Sea Mode. Knew I saw some QBs and thought they all had weighed in and measured. But went back later to look for Kyler Murray’s height, etc. and noticed it was just stats for 4 QBs.
The 5-10, 220 RB club is looking numerous this year. Let’s wait and see who the explosive ones are. Based off of tape, who are your favorites?
From heaviest to lightest:
Pittsburgh RB Qadree Ollison
Height: 6-0 5/8
Weight: 228
Hand: 9 5/8
Arm: 31 4/8
Wingspan: 76 4/8
Michigan State RB LJ Scott
Height: 6-0 3/8
Weight: 227
Hand: 9 3/8
Arm: 32 1/8
Wingspan: 77 4/8
Kansas State RB Alex Barnes
Height: 6-0 3/8
Weight: 226
Hand: 10
Arm: 31
Wingspan: 75
Oklahoma RB Rodney Anderson
Height: 6-0 3/8
Weight: 224
Hand: 9 6/8
Arm: 30 6/8
Wingspan: 75 3/8
Kentucky RB Benny Snell
Height: 5-10 3/8
Weight: 224
Hand: 9 3/8
Arm: 31
Wingspan: 74 2/8
Iowa State RB David Montgomery
Height: 5-10 1/8
Weight: 222
Hand: 9 2/8
Arm: 31 3/8
Wingspan: 77 3/8
Boise State RB Alexander Mattison
Height: 5-10 5/8
Weight: 221
Hand: 9 1/8
Arm: 31
Wingspan: 76 2/8
Alabama RB Josh Jacobs
Height: 5-10
Weight: 220
Hand: 10 1/8
Arm: 31 5/8
Wingspan: 74 2/8
Temple RB Ryquell Armstead
Height: 5-11 2/8
Weight: 220
Hand: 9 1/8
Arm: 30 5/8
Wingspan: 72 6/8
Georgia RB Elijah Holyfield
Height: 5-10 3/8
Weight: 217
Hand: 9
Arm: 30 3/8
Wingspan: 72 4/8
Alabama RB Damien Harris
Height: 5-10 1/8
Weight: 216
Hand: 9 6/8
Arm: 30 6/8
Wingspan: 72 7/8
Bonus:
Wisconsin FB Alec Ingold
Height: 6-0 6/8
Weight: 242
Hand: 9 5/8
Arm: 31 4/8
Wingspan: 75
Very happy to see Ryquell Armstead made it
Elon OT Oli Udoh
Height: 6056
Weight: 327
Hand (right):10
Hand (left): 10
Arm: 36
Wingspan: 85
JS Combine Press Conference cliff notes
https://www.facebook.com/Seahawks/videos/373387993214613/
In General:
– Every year is a “reset”, you have to make tough decisions and see where you are going to be 2-3 years down the line. Coaches did a phenomenal job coaching up young guys.
On the combine:
– Meetings and medicals, just spending time with guys around the week, are opportunities to get questions answered. We’re a team who doesn’t think we have all the answers. We’re trying to figure out who the person is, what the makeup is.
– Having scouts on the field watching or running drills is of course useful.
On trading down:
– Only a handful of picks to work with? It’s a challenge. Of course, the draft is not the only way we build our team. It’s exciting. It’s what we do. Our guys do a great job on draft day of using their relationships throughout the league.
– “It’s exciting, it’s what we do. Our guys do a great job on draft day of working their relationships around the league. We are trying to navigate where we are going around the draft and targeting players and moving around.”
– “We don’t necessarily have to trade down every time, but it’s fun.”
– What are the chances we stick with 4 picks?: “I hope it’s slim”.
On our current players:
– Will Penny get going in 2019? Had never been hurt before, so he had to work through it. But he’s set up for success.
– The last 2 classes have done a nice job. Unfortunate situation with Malik. We need guys that are willing to come in with the confidence to take someone’s job. Now we have that.
On extensions
– “Frank and I, we have a great relationship. There’s a — communication has been great. There’s a strong level of trust between the two of us; so that would be the update,” Schneider revealed during his Wednesday NFL Scouting Combine press conference.
– Expect him back with us? “Yeah.”
– Franchise tag possibility? “I don’t know that yet. I mean it’s been ten years– Olindo Mare. We actually talked John Lynch into doing it with their kicker”.
– We’ve talked to Janikowski’s agents. Already brought in competition.
– Do you get the sense that RW is committed to Hawks? “I have no reason to believe otherwise—other than internet rumors.”
– Any communication with Earl? No. Disappointed in how relationship ended? No, I understand the business. He’s a FA and he’ll be in the ring of honor.
– Talks with KJ: we’ll talk with all our FAs reps this week, so we’ll have a better idea of where market lies. 2018 was a rough year for KJ with knee surgery, missing months of season. But we love KJ.
On prospect evaluation:
– Short QBs: feet, eyes, delivery quickness, locate secondary WRs quick, move in pocket and find passing lanes, be able to create for themselves, keep themselves safe.
– How do you project prospects with some shortcoming (in measurements)?: they have another trait that offsets it, like Poona Ford’s long arms.
– At what point do drops become too much of an issue when evaluating college WRs? Have to talk to their coaches to see if it is fixable.
– Advice for team who drafts Kyler Murray, who has other interests outside of football (i.e. baseball)? I see it as a positive. Don’t like RW flying helicopters though.
– You can never have enough CBs, WRs who can run, and pass rushers. DL are easier to find now than OL.
Great recap as always. Thanks again Seamode.
Thanks SeaMode! The answer about Poona Ford’s long arms is fascinating. Something to keep in mind when we see players with “deficiencies”. For eg, Russ’ height but huge hands.
“…DL are easier to find now than OL.”
At some point High School & college athletes are going to look at the ‘jags’ making huge money as OL in the NFL and say hey, I don’t have to be great to be paid great. Less visibility and glory but less competition for big $$$ based on a lower supply of talent at the position. The pendulum has to swing back a little bit doesn’t it???
I don’t think it’ll ever swing back. Thus the need for development leagues.
I coach HS football on the Defensive side and I can tell you its a mind set that is not likely to ever change, at least at the HS level. Nobody in HS wants to play OL. They just dont. It is the least fun, least glamorous, most thankless position group on the field. Training/learning it is tedious, and attention spans in HS just aren’t cut out for it. The lack of quality OL isn’t an NFL anomaly, its at every level. The athletes just don’t want to do it because they don’t see the “glory” in it and they see it as a waste of their athletic abilities. I’ve had kids tell me they would rather be a back up on DL than a starter on OL.
If you think about it, it makes sense from their standpoint too. How many non-Seahawk NFL DLers can you name compared to OLers? Some of the biggest names in the game are DL, big enough to rival QBs or WR in many cases. The big guys want the same recognition as the little guys. Unfortunately, the game suffers for it IMO, but such is life.
Totally makes sense. So, I guess the real question is: how long until NFL follows AAF and bans blitzing in order to help out struggling OL, which in turn hurts their product…? 😉
Scoring has been on a gradual incline over the past 25 years, including its highest ever (modern era) this past year. Why do we need to help out the OL?
Kaleb McGary is literally the definition of a T-rex.
Does he bite?
I’m really looking forward to seeing his Combine results and what that means for Rob’s TEF formula.
Not sure how early the Hawks will want to take an O-line guy. Maybe it depends on whether they re-sign Sweezy and Fluker, and what they think about the potential of Simmons, Jones, and Pocic.
Not sure what his kink is. 😉
Gonna be fun to see in regards to the O-lineman with Solari here. Not much precedence to go off.
They’ve never drafted a T with less than 34″ arms and never drafted a G with less than 33* arms, but maybe Solari changes that and of course there’s always outliers.
I think they draft an O-lineman. As much as I want Fluker and Sweezy both back, I’d bet, but probably lose, that they keep only 1 of them.
I think they’ll both be back. Quite comfortably, in all honesty.
But they might still draft an OL depending on how the board falls.
Agree with Rob. I think if we had our way we’d have Fluker and Sweezy back, but I also think we need to add some interior line depth b/c those guys have had injury problems. Draft or FA.
Finally, some insight on how the arm measurements are actually taken! Been wondering for so long exactly how they go about it:
Gotta think Seattle targets a WR that excels in YAC. They were near the bottom of the league in that category.
Are they concerned with YAC though? Never really been a team to ‘get the ball in the hands of a WR’ and let them create. More about shots and explosive chunk plays.
Golden Tate wasn’t? Percy Harvin was surely brought on board with the idea that he’d give them a weapon defenses would have to focus on as well as all of the above.
More than one way to skin a cat when it comes to chunk plays.
Percy Harvin they had no idea how to get the best out of. Was a weapon that arrived without the instructions.
Golden Tate had some YAC ability but he was best known at Notre Dame for his fantastic ability to make enormous chunk plays downfield. His deep-ball receiving ability was phenomenal. People often forget that.
And I wasn’t even referring to personnel. I’m talking about what they actually do with the offense. They aren’t running a variety of screens or creative ways to get the ball to players in space for YAC. They run and take shots.
To be fair, any 3rd and 10+ situation they found themselves in was all but guaranteed to be a screen…
I’ll see myself out.
Rob, he played in 2 games.
Who did???
Percy Harvin
He played more than two games.
And they struggled to work out a way to use him.
He was healthy for just about 2 games. The other games were him coming off a long term injury where they had to limit his snaps.. I don’t think you can call it “struggled to work out a way to use him”, with that type of sample size. He was just a headcase that didn’t fit in with the team.
They definitely struggled to find a way how to use him. I remember travelling thousands of miles to witness his last game against Dallas. And if you speak to the people internally — I think they’ll admit that they didn’t really have a sufficient plan on how to get the best of him. Just having him run sweeps and some basic routes was a waste. He was good enough to be the focal point of the offense. And they never got close to establishing a proper role for him — before the ugly parting after the Dallas game when he basically quit on the team mid-game.
Not sure why people are starting to claim he played ‘two’ games. He played the first five in 2014 and was perfectly healthy before they dumped him to the Jets. But it’s going down a blind alley anyway. The original point still stands. This team has never truly prioritised or featured a scheme that features YAC. We know what Carroll likes. Big explosive plays downfield, great running game.
Interesting. Jerry Tillery played the last 8 games of the season w/ a torn right labrum.
That is interesting. Especially since 7 of his 8 sacks on the year came in the ‘healthy’ period of time.
Aaaand, here they come for the WRs:
Height: 5-9 3/8
Weight: 166
Hand: 9
Arm: 30 4/8
Wingspan: 71 6/8
Height: 5-9 6/8
Weight: 169
Hand: 9 3/8
Arm: 29 6/8
Wingspan: ?)
Height: 5-11 7/8
Weight: 205
Hand: 9 4/8
Arm: 32 2/8
Wingspan: 75 5/8
What everyone has been waiting for:
QB Kyler Murray
Height: 5-10 1/8
Weight: 207
Hand: 9 4/8
Arm: 28 4/8
Wingspan: 69 4/8
Over 5-10, big hands. I’d say that’s all he needed today. (Though I’m not sure if I ever recall seeing anyone come in under 70-inch wingspan…)
Here’s RW for comparison:
QB Russell Wilson
Height: 5-10 5/8
Weight: 204
Hand: 10 2/8
Arm: 31
Wingspan: 76
So Kyler has bigger paws than Drew Lock.
What a monster:
Height: 6-3 3/8
Weight: 228
Hand: 9 7/8
Arm: 34 7/8
Wingspan: 82 7/8
That’s almost Mike Evans’ stuff there.
WR Mike Evans
Height: 6-4 6/8
Weight: 231
Hand: 9 5/8
Arm: 35 1/8
Wingspan: 83
Big difference in their tape though…
Kyler Murray measured 5-10 1/8 and 207lbs. A smidge shorter than RW and a lot more explosive. That’s gotta help his cause big time.
If AZ wants to get out of the cellar, they can take this cat and deal Rosen in a thin QB draft. Dang, I think they have to do this and that probably puts Bosa in a 49ers uniform. This is a critical offseason for JS. They have gotta get Frank Clark signed, IMO, and start working on Bobby and Jarran, and then nail this draft.
To be fair, Murray definitely bulked up just for the purpose of appearing heavier at weigh-in; his playing weight at Oklahoma was probably no more than 190-192lbs. Would be interesting to see his testing numbers at 207lbs.
2020 might be more crucial. They’ll have more cap space presumably, a ton of picks, and the Rams contracts start to take a hit for them.
I have a sneaking feeling SF is going to be the scary team in the division to deal with. LA doesn’t even concern me near as much moving forward. Add Murray in AZ and Bosa in SF and that makes the whole division really interesting, and the idea of trading RW so utterly absurd.
That is definitely what the Cards should do but I pray they don’t. We really don’t want him in the NFC West.
‘Still, if you wanted to feel good about Kyler’s size, you can now.’- Matt Miller
It’s ok now guys. We can all relax. That man gave his permission.
Trevon Wesco just screams Seahawks, doesn’t he? 267 lbs, 6’4, thumping blocker, soft hands. He would be a wonderful hedge for Dissly’s injury as well as for Vannet’s impending free agency.
He definitely does
I think we might be interested in him a lot earlier than most fans expect. Like another Dissly situation.
+1
Unique.
So something milhouse said the other day caught my attention.
While the 10 he split is important is it the most? Ehhhh…
Avril, Bruce, and Clark were all above the 70 percentile/tier. Know who was in the 40? Every DE/EDGE they’ve drafted since 2015. Know who was above the 70% in the 3 cone? Everyone.
I think Jim Cobern has posted on this. He doesn’t know why, but even for o linemen, the 40 yard dash is a better predictor of future nfl success than the split. Kind of counter intuitive for the line positions but apparently that is what the data says. It makes me hope that the Hawks are aware of this piece of information, but I kind of doubt it :).
I always think of this when people say ‘well 40 doesnt matter, the 10 split does because lineman only run so far in actual games.’ Well, actually …
Oh I’m willing to bet they’re more than aware.
Remember Pete built this team through market inefficiencies. He’s always been ahead of the curve in player development, FA, but with an old school team on the field.
You said every DL they’ve drafted is 70th percentile in the 40?
Important. Perhaps they value the 10 yard for edge guys more.
Jason Witten returning to the NFL and the Cowboys. Will this have any bearing on Earl Thomas landing in FA to the Cowboys?…
https://es.pn/2Sy7KbR
Did Jason Witten just chose CTE over sitting in a booth for MNF and not saying anything?
Gonna be incredible when comes back to a mediocre, middle of the road Cowboys team, puts up mediocre stats, but we hear how about this team missed it’s captain and what a veteran presence he brings. lmao
Now if only we could talk Booger into un-retiring…
U don’t like hearing about his tales of pooping himself?
Meh. I’m more about rolling my eyes at his common sense as Moses coming down from the mountain comments. “guys, look for them to pass here!” on 3rd and 9. And “guys, they need to put points on the board” when a team is down by 10 in the 4th quarter.
And it is really strange to me, because it’s not logical to me that 40 is more important than 10y split. I cant even see why is 40 important for edge rushers? But data say what they say…
Of course. Myles Gaskin met with the Seahawks.
He may have met with them but he doesn’t fit the profile of a RB they draft. I love him as a Dawg fan, but he’s too small to be a Hawks RB and I doubt he’d want to be a third down passing RB or a WR convert. He’s more of a fit for NE, possibly as a replacement for Burkhead or White.
And Caleb McGary
If you can, please give a source and I’ll keep our visits tracker up to date:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J3d023YdKp9MFv7OQTy0YTssJ65qLd_aB0UJFGVHxPY/edit?usp=sharing
nvm, already saw it was Bell as well. But do let me know if the list is missing any.
Jalen Jelks an interesting one. Longtime DL just made the switch to LB last year. Mostly underwhelming but has unique frame. Pure tweener but we like those types
Awesome.
Not missing any that I’m aware of.
Offensive weapon. Dude has soft hands and can run wheel routes.
Yessir, ma boy got long arms and huge hands…
Georgia WR Riley Ridley
Height: 6-1 2/8
Weight: 199
Hand: 10 2/8
Arm: 32 5/8
Wingspan: 78 2/8
Well, he’s a few pounds heavier than I would have guessed from the tape:
Georgia WR Mecole Hardman
Height: 5-10 2/8
Weight: 187
Hand: 9
Arm: 30 2/8
Wingspan: 71 5/8
And keep an eye on this guy in the late rounds. Really cool, intelligent kid who had a bad injury. He reminded me of what Richard Sherman might have looked like if he stayed at WR:
Michigan State WR Felton Davis
Height: 6-3 4/8
Weight: 211
Hand: 10 2/8
Arm: 32 6/8
Wingspan: 76 6/8
Your comment about a guy being heavier than how he looks on tape and the Kyler Murray measurements reinforced my wish (if I was the king of the NFL) that we could somehow do weights immediately following the season. If I’m an NFL team, I don’t want to know what a guy can get to (or get down to), I want to know what he *played* at.
People thought Murray played at around 190. We know from watching Russell that an extra 15 pounds or so can make a huge difference in one’s ability to avoid the rush. If Murray can’t escape, he’s not as good. Same goes for Byron Murphy at CB, etc. How much could it really cost to fly a couple of scouts out to each major conference and get weights on the draftable guys at the end of the team’s year?
I’m not doing PC presser notes; Bob Condotta’s got us covered this time around:
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/seahawks-coach-pete-carroll-speaks-on-the-teams-injuries-earl-thomas-frank-clark-russell-wilson-and-more/
Wow, there sure are a lot of big, long WRs (and TEs) in this draft. If Seattle does want one, they should be able to find one they like.
Side note: woohoo, tomorrow we get TEF scores and RB jumps!
This WR class is excellent. There’s a little bit of everything.
IDK what’s in the water down in Mississippi, but DK Metcalf with his physical profile and 1.8% body fat is not human.
Do you think that Dalton Risner could be a fit at tackle and do you think that he will last into the 30-40 range where we will likely pick on Draft Day?
https://twitter.com/GavinoBorquez/status/1087893151422001152
Kyler Murray coming in at 5’10 1/8th”
It aint much but it sounds a lot better than a 5’9 QB
Position is evolving, but the schemes need to evolve too
I’m not saying they’ll go this way, but Miss St. S Jonathan Abram would be a great fit to play that Kam Chancellor role. Shot out a cannon, sets the tone, brings attitude and physicality. Will give TEs fits up the seam.