Jadeveon Clowney dominated in San Francisco
Jadeveon Clowney shines
The Seahawks know who they need to build their D-line around. Regardless of the performance in the game, the pass rush needs major surgery in the off-season.
The use of Shaquem Griffin instead of Ziggy Ansah was a frank admission that the Ansah signing hasn’t worked. They need speed off the edge and Griffin at least provides that. The number one off-season priority will surely be to re-sign Clowney and pair him with a dynamic speed rusher. I’ll have more on that in a moment.
Clowney has always had game-wrecking potential and he showed it in this game. It helped that for the first time this season he was well supported. The rest of the D-line raised their game. The defense doesn’t need to be the LOB. It just needs to make some plays and not be a liability.
The big question is whether this was a flash in the pan or the early signs of a turn. The Seahawks have been sliced and diced by too many opponents to feel truly confident that this unit is ready to take a leap forward. It’s a start though.
We’ve seen what Clowney can do when he’s given some support. The Seahawks can’t afford to lose him in the off-season unless the price tag just becomes unbearable. Which, unfortunately, is possible if he keeps up this form in the second half of the season. If he continues to play this way he’d still be worth the investment. He only turns 27 in February. There aren’t many players like this on the planet. He was the #1 overall pick for a reason. They can’t lose him. They need to build with him.
What the stats say
Despite his great game on Monday, Clowney is only 35th in the league for pressures with 18. However, that is the same number as DeMarcus Lawrence and one more than Chris Jones.
He’s PFF’s third ranked defensive end (89.6), behind only T.J. Watt (91.0) and Nick Bosa (89.7).
Dante Fowler is 12th with 25 and Everson Griffen is sixth with a massive 31. T.J. Watt and Aaron Donald lead the league with 34. Joey Bosa is third with 32.
Clowney is 24th in the league with nine hurries. Dante Fowler is now fourth with 15 — behind only Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald and Cameron Jordan. Everson Griffen is sixth with 13 and Von Miller tenth with 11.
In terms of TFL’s, the numbers are surprising. It feels like Clowney has had more impact than his five so far which only ranks #71 in the league. Strangely that’s the same number as Von Miller and Khalil Mack. Frank Clark has six TFL’s (so essentially one more sack and one more TFL than Clowney). DeMarcus Lawrence has six TFL’s too and 4.5 sacks.
Aaron Donald leads the league with 13. Joey and Nick Bosa are second and third with 12 apiece. Dante Fowler is sixth with 10. Yannick Ngakoue has seven and ranks 24th.
If the Seahawks want to add a true impact rusher with speed to play across from Clowney, Dante Fowler stands out as a possibility. He signed a one-year deal in LA for $12m. His market was lukewarm a year ago, forcing him to sign a prove-it type deal. In terms of sacks, pressures and TFL’s he is performing at the level the Seahawks need. He doesn’t turn 26 until next August. He ran a 1.59 10-yard split at his combine (anything in the 1.5’s is considered ideal). We’ll need to see what his market is but that’s the guy I’d put a circle around.
Whatever happens, adding a speed element to the pass rusher is much needed.
Bradley McDougald is underrated
The stats at safety are very interesting and really highlight why they benched Marquise Blair and why they are so high on Bradley McDougald.
Marquise Blair was conceding a 126.6 passer rating when he was targeted — the 17th highest in the league. McDougald, in comparison, has the seventh lowest passer rating when targeted (38.6). That’s better than Richard Sherman (43.2) and Tre’Davious White (44.4).
McDougald also gives up 4.2 yards per target. That’s 13th best in the league and on a similar level to Harrison Smith (4.1). Earl Thomas gives up 4.8 yards per target.
Blair is conceding 7.5 yards per target.
A lot of people questioned Seattle’s decision to bench Blair for the Niners game, especially given PFF in their special PFF way graded him as Seattle’s best defender against Tampa Bay. This is an indication as to why the Seahawks made the move.
The fact that PFF graded him highly suggests he didn’t play badly in terms of the basics. Yet PFF don’t have intimate knowledge of Seattle’s scheme. It’s possible he’s not quite nailing the scheme and thus he’s conceding yards at a rate the Seahawks are uncomfortable with.
This is actually quite encouraging. It presents a scenario where Blair’s play has been decent and he just needs time and experience in the system. By trading for Quandre Diggs, they buy themselves some time. Diggs had an excellent start against San Francisco with two big hits and an interception. If he can quietly lock down a section of the field like the stats suggest McDougald is, the Seahawks will be in good shape.
Other stats of note
Tre Flowers’ passer rating against is 76.7. That’s actually better than Shaquille Griffin’s (80.0).
Mychal Kendricks no longer leads the league in missed tackles (that’s Denzel Ward). He’s now only seventh with 24.6% missed tackles. Yannick Ngakoue is a place above him with 25.8% missed tackles.
Re-sign Germain Ifedi?
Germain Ifedi received a 71.9 pass-blocking grade from PFF. People will hammer him for the surreal fumble for a touchdown. He actually caught Wilson’s fumble and found himself in an unusual position. In terms of blocking, he’s having a good year. He’s nowhere near the liability some fans and pundits suggest. As long as his price tag isn’t extortionate, the Seahawks should seek to avoid creating a problem at right tackle and try to retain him.
Is Jamar Taylor really a problem?
Nickel corner is an unforgiving position. You’re often isolated against a sudden, talented receiver trying to cover a lot of space. There aren’t many truly excellent nickel corner’s for a reason.
In terms of the stats, nothing really stands out with Jamar Taylor. He gives up 10.5 yards a completion which is about the same as Bradley McDougald (9.8) and it’s lower than Flowers (10.6) and Griffin (11.0). Akeem King is giving up 18.7 yards per completion.
Taylor’s 6.6 yards conceded per target is marginally worse than Griffin’s (6.0) and Flowers’ (6.3).
His completion percentage is 62.5%. Flowers is giving up 59.6% and Griffin 55.1%. The completion percentage vs Bobby Wagner is 87.1%.
Clearly Taylor gave up some catches against the Niners and will likely be a one-and-done player in Seattle. Yet he’s maybe not quite the liability some think. He’s not playing great but he’s not awful either. And let’s give him credit for the tipped pass he had late on to force a punt last night.
Should they go after Vernon Hargreaves?
Tampa Bay cut Vernon Hargreaves today. If you want to sign him be aware he’s given up the third most yards in coverage this season (578) behind only Isaiah Oliver (634) and Kyle Fuller (631).
Let’s compare Hargreaves with Jamar Taylor:
Yards conceded
Taylor: 210
Hargreaves: 578
Yards per completion
Taylor: 10.5
Hargreaves: 12.8
Yards per target
Taylor: 6.6
Hargreaves: 8.9
Passer rating
Taylor: 81.5
Hargreaves: 110.9
Completion percentage
Taylor: 62.5%
Hargreaves: 69.2%
Maybe Hargreaves would benefit from a fresh start? However, he is not performing better than Taylor in any category.
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I said this at the end of the last post. I would actually like to see Diggs moved to the slot when they go nickel and bring in Blair at safety versus bringing in Taylor at nickel.
Based on the way Diggs played at safety yesterday, I’m not moving him.
Hard to disagree with that. Personally for me I would rather have Diggs, McDougald, and Blair on the field in nickel then Diggs, McDougald, and Taylor. Blair is the future and getting him some game reps while not being the full time starter is a win. Ultimately we will find out in two weeks when we play the Eagles. Hopefully the pass rush wasnt a one off as it was fun watching them play defense last night. 24 points against doesnt do them justice as it was actually only 17.
But the stats currently say Blair is struggling pass coverage, which could be detrimental to the team. And it’s perhaps not a surprise they played better without him last night.
The stats in this article also indicate Taylor isn’t playing as poorly as people believe.
You cant always just look at the stats though. Im just going by what my eyes tell me. Maybe you are right but Blair at safety never got that kind of pass rush either. Blair is a bully type presence that we lack so there is that aspect as well.
Sure, stats don’t tell a complete picture. But nickel corner is a VERY difficult position to play. Every nickel gives up plays. It’s par for the course. I’m not saying he’s playing great or anything but he might not be the liability some assume and the stats if nothing else hint at that.
Amadi at Nickel? He seems to offer more speed and has good instincts for the position..Taylor just looks a hair slow for the SCB…
Lots of fans suggest Amadi but I’ll keep saying that Nickel is one of THE most toughest positions to play. Quickness alone isn’t enough. You WILL get beat. Fairly frequently. It’s about making just enough plays to offset the times you are beat. A rookie who played safety in college switching mid season to the full time Nickel would be a big call. And anyone who thinks it can’t get worse than Jamar Taylor could be in for a surprise.
Taylor was friggin CUT then brought back because of injury. He stinks, regardless of how hard the position is to play. Thats his JOB, and he fails at it.
No, he was cut to not guarantee his contract which they do with all sorts of vets including Geno Smith and Jaron Brown this year.
I don’t think most people understand what is realistic at nickel corner. I’m not saying Taylor is great. He has had bad plays. But perspective on what the position entails is something that really needs to be stressed. The whole ‘just put Amadi in’ suggestion I see often is a good example of people not really appreciating the toughness of that role.
But you can’t not look at the stats either. I really appreciate these kinds of articles from Rob. The stats are instrumental in helping put into context what my eyes are seeing.
For example, prior to last night’s game I thought Taylor was a decent nickel corner. He had some good plays vs other teams. What he lacks is consistency. But as Rob points out, NCB is the hardest position to play in the defensive backfield. He had some whiffs early vs SF, but that tipped pass down the stretch was a crucial play that might have altered the outcome if he didn’t make it. The stats in this article confirm that. I’ll keep Taylor over someone like Hargreaves any day.
But Blair played when there was ZERO pass rush…. Yeah he’s a rookie but like you said, he needs game reps. I also think making Collier inactive isn’t helping him going forward either. Obviously he cant even beat out the underperforming Ansah.
If Blair was all aces Pete would play him all the time. He’s good i like him alot myself but it’s reasonable to believe PC is an elite judge of DB play.
Baby steps for Blair. Lot’s of potential but needs time — just as Kam did.
Diggs looked like a man among boys. Looking forward to seeing him play at full strength one of these days. Jarran Reed finally looked like the version we saw last year. I’m hoping that now that he and Clowney have a better feel for each other that the QB pressures and disruption will increase. Josh Gordon did fine for basically knowing nothing in the playbook and he converted big time in Richard Sherman’s face.
Crunch time and it looks like the reinforcements are ready to take this team to the next level.
I just wonder how many guys we can keep and sign. If we keep Clowney, Reed, try and add a guy like Fowler and keep Ifedi is there enough money? Do you have an order you like?
a) Clowney
b) Reed
c) Ifedi
d) fowler type
I think Reed will have to test the market. Might work in Seattle’s favour though, it has in the past (Bennett). Ifedi likewise probably has to test the market first.
Loved seeing Jimmy G flustered near the end of the game. This seemed like a statement game that the D needed. It reminds me of the old stat where teams had an incredibly high loss rate in games immediately following playing the seahawks. I’m trying not too get too excited and expecting this play from the D to continue, a little uptick seems reasonable though.
Its exciting to think that it is not entirely unrealistic to expect the Hawks to retain Clowney and still have to option to add someone like Fowler, Armstead or Ngakoue. (in order of who I would prefer)
It really feels like we are a few pieces away from truly being a top dog in the league again but at least we can see how it might happen.
It could be all the constant criticism of the defense lit a fire under them. Let’s hope it continues. I may be in the minority but I am really up set with the officiating in the game and the league in general. I watch 5-6 games every week and it is as bad as I have ever seen it. When you have booth officials disagreeing with on field calls on a regular basis, something is amiss. So many games are being decided by officials it takes the legitimacy out of the standings. Time after time you see the offense move the ball downfield to points after a bad defensive call. I am afraid it won’t change though unless the fans rise up and start complaining to the league office. A few hundred thousand letters might be all it would take.
A huge amount of the problem is that the NFL got way too litigious about the rule book and wanted to define things down to the nth degree. Rules need some flex for human interpretation and error. I also think replays and challenges are one of the worst things to happen to sports. Just get on with the game, if the referee makes a mistake everyone can live with it. I’d honestly rather that than what we have now, it’s brutal.
This year refs lost their short-lived year-round employee status. It makes no sense that those deciding games in a Billion dollar industry are not considered real professionals. Pay and training should equate with responsibility and should be commensurate with that of a professional athlete. Some of the calls in this game were just dumb, others just grossly inconsistent. The refs really took away our momentum at the start of the game when the 49ers were caught off guard by our swarming defense. The negation of Shaq Griffin’s interception made this a much different game. The mistakes began on the opening drive and went on from there. I felt like I was back in the old days when NFL refs appeared shocked by early Seahawk’s success and would seem to make questionable calls to put things back in their “natural order”. Perhaps “professional” refs would not make these kinds of, er, mistakes?
Great stuff Rob. This team has chemistry, heart, toughness…they can go a long ways, I’m now convinced.
Regarding next year…Clowney is the top priority. He is a true case of stats don’t tell the story. He is an absolute gamechanger. I think Fowler also makes a ton of sense. Sink money into Pass Rush.
I would love to resign Ifedi…never thought I’d say that, but I think that you only resign him after you make it work for 2 pass rushers. You have to take a haircut somewhere, and unfortunately that might be it. The nice thing is that the draft has some great options (Wills in particular looks incredible).
Big offseason. Find 2 edge rushers. Draft OT, WR with the top 2 picks. And I think you see this team cement a few years as the top dog.
I’ve been underwhelmed watching the two Alabama tackles personally.
If Ifedi moves on — I want to see a veteran unless Georgia’s Isaiah Wilson is there. More rookie teething problems are unappealing. I’d be willing to live with it if Wilson was there because I think he’s a top-20 talent.
What about re-signing Britt? I’m guessing we also may let him test FA or cut him because of the injury and next year’s cap for him is almost 12 mil., 3.5 for Fluker. So just roll with Hunt and Pocic, and possibly draft the center from UW, Wisconsin or Michigan in the 2nd or 3rd?
I think it depends on the injury with Britt but he deserves to stay if possible.
If Ifedi moves on, I’d like to see Fant given a shot at that position. Then move him to the left side when Brown retires or moves on.
Nice read, and nice set of facts to put in the noggin. I’m still levitating after last night’s game. No, it might not have been the cleanest game (and that includes the refs), but there were so many twists and turns and momentum swings it made for high drama. For me, the play of the game was the Reed strip and Clowney recovery/TD. I went from thinking we were on the edge of getting blown out to a 10-7 game.
Also, lest we forget, the defense stepped up on the next two 49er possessions and got off the field in a hurry. Those were key stops, as our offense still couldn’t capitalize until the last drive, though it ended in that fumble near the goal line. At half time I’m thinking…wow…we’re only down by 3 and could have been winning. How is this possible?
I haven’t had so much fun watching a big game with friends in awhile. It’s like we were all living and dying on every play together. I literally dropped to my knees when Meyer hit the FG only to be made aware that a TO was called. No, no, no…he’s going to have to kick it again! Then when he hit, our room erupted like so many others throughout the area.
Good times. A real season changing victory. We’re not out of the woods in terms of many of the issues we’ve been discussing here, but there is at least sense of hope about the defense that wasn’t justifiably there only 48 hours ago.
I can’t quite think analytically yet about our secondary. My only hope is that we get a more consistent and solid unit together the rest of the way.
Anyway…good read about some issues to think about moving forward from here.
Great stuff once again Rob. I like that you are mixing in stats with the eye test as well.
Only one game so I don’t want to jump the gun but Diggs looks like a great addition with his energy he has shown that he can be a play maker. I would still like to see them add another dynamic player on the back end but the need is less that I thought it was if Diggs continues to play this way.
I really hope this is a development year for Amadi and the Hawks are kind of protecting him a bit. He is a dominant special teamer and seems like such a gamer. I dont think it is unreasonable to think he could be a quality slot CB next year to replace Taylor.
I think ideally in the off season the Hawks focus their attention and $ in free agency in the trenches.
Priority #1 Resign Clowney 5 yrs /110 mil (Game Changer)
Priority #2 Sign Fowler 4 yrs $70 /mil (Duo of Clowney and Fowler would be the equivalent of Bennett and Avril
Priority #3 Resign Ifedi 4 yrs /$50 mil (He is an average RT who is improving each year and still young)
Priorty #4 Jarron Reed (let him test market and match if makes sense)
Priority #5 Extend Bradley Mcdougald (2 yr deal similar to what he has now to provide leadership and versitility)
I sure hope Ifedi doesn’t get $50m. I think it would be more reasonable to expect he gets $7m-$9m; $12.5m is left tackle money (see Duane Brown’s 2020 cap hit).
I would also prefer to sign someone like Benson Mayowa over Fowler. Would come at a more reasonable rate, putting up remarkably similar numbers to Fowler, doesn’t block Collier long-term.
Are Clowney’s 10 or so pressures according to PFF included in his overall total?
Seahawks looked like an entirely different team with a genuine pass rush. Clowney and Reed have to be high up on the must retain list. Getting a genuine LEO like Carson and Avril were in the past would be amazing.
Fumbles by the running backs must be driving Pete crazy. I’m guessing RB is shooting up the priority list in the offseason.
Thanks for this article Rob, these statistics help me think differently about our safety situation and nickel. There’s a reason why the Seahawks have these players starting vs others we may *feel* like we want to see
In terms of money to sign free agents next year, I’ve done some research by taking the overthecap numbers for 2020 on players making at least 2m or more (13 players). I’ve then filled out the roster by assuming 40 players making an average of 700k. I’ve deducted the dead cap and money for draft, IR and PS.
This results in 46M of estimated free cap for free agents (including signing our own)
Here’s a few of our own and what I believe they would cost to retain (1st year cap could be lowered a few million):
Clowney (20m / year)
Reed (12m / year)
Ifedi (10-12m / year)
Fant (10m / year)
Carson (6m / year)
What about these 3?
Gordon? Jefferson? Hollister?
Almost our entire pass rush production this year will be FA in 2020. I’m not sure if we will have $ for a Fowler type unless we decide not to sign one of those big names above. Big big decisions in the offseason before we ever get to the draft. This could swing our draft significantly.
You could save 9m by cutting Britt, 6m by cutting Wright. I’m not sure either of those are good cuts…
I don’t think Fant gets quite that much from us. I think the only way he even approaches double digits is if someone thinks he’s a starter quality every down RT. Could happen with how desperate teams are for O-line help every offseason.
Clowney must be retained, and it’s really a shame we can’t just sign him now.
I think Britt is either willing to take a pay cut to stay here, or he’s gone. This is assuming Hunt doesn’t have too many plays like the one we all saw last night. I think that’s probably the worst I’ve even seen a center get beat in my life.
I would hope you are right about what it might cost to retain Fant. I just think we’ve had a ton of OL salary inflation. As Fant goes to FA, people will look at how he filled in at LT when Brown was out and may want to pay him more.
I do think we only keep Fant or Ifedi. I would probably want to keep Fant as my RT because of that LT upside. Ifedi has kind of turned it on in a contract year and may revert after a big contract.
I’ve been watching Ifedi since he was drafted and yeah, it has been rough at times, but I’ve also seen slow and steady improvement over the years. At this point in his career he is a solid RT and I can see us giving him $10-12M/yr.
The fumble play last night was so fast for Ifedi that I bet he was shocked when the ball magically appeared in his hands and before he took two steps it was out again. I felt bad for the guy it happened so fast and when the idiot announcers kept saying that he “took” it from Russ I just SMH…Slow mo shows what happened….give credit to the 49er D for collapsing the pocket so fast on Russ, he had no where to go…and neither did Ifedi.
Pete said they are getting Phil Haynes snaps at center in practice. The hope is that he can take over since neither Simms or Hunt are Solari type linemen
I think Brit moves on or takes a pay cut.
Pociac not simms
I said this earlier but basically Pete was asked about Haynes at center and he gave a pretty meh answer that the media made more of than necessary. I don’t think it’s any indication at all that they see his future at center.
It was odd how that narrative was played up. The exact quote was that they had him working there for “versatility,” meaning they are basically just giving him reps at multiple spots so he can help if needed.
Exactly
I think you are pretty close on salary numbers except for Fant/Carson…For Fant he has not proven himself as a starter, at most he is seen as a decent swing tackle around the league. No way he gets more than 5 m/y on the open market imo.
Now Carson, he has shown that at his best (non injured and not fumbling) he is a top 5 back in the league. The top RBs in the league are making between 13-15 mil a year. I don’t think Carson gets that high due to injuries and fumbles, but basically I would 100% agree with your projections if you flip the salary for Carson and Fant. Also I would hope we could get Clowney for a little less than 20 but if he keeps balling out that probably won’t happen.
That makes sense. I hope we can get Fant for less. I hope Clowney keeps balling out cause that might punch our ticket…it will also up his cost to re-sign though.
Good write up. I have a few thoughts. Diggs was playing FS and McDougald was at SS. Blair was a bit miscast at FS. I think we all thought of him as a natural SS. I think they wanted to get him on the field and FS was the easier option as stated by Pete. I said last post that Pete was playing Blair at 20 yards off the ball at FS so he would get beat over top. This left him with long tracks to the ball in the run and pass game. To his credit he didn’t get beat deep and made a lot of plays on the ball. Diggs already has Pete’s trust and is playing closer to the ball making a lot of plays down hill and staying on top. They played a lot less cover 2 last night because of this. I think Blair will be the SS next year when he learns. That would bump McDougald to Nickel. His stats are a bit padded IMO due to his role in run support but he only has a year left after this one and they didn’t draft Blair and Amadi to sit.
Clowney is a no brainer. He is a building block for the future. I think they can get Reed on a small prove it due to production. I’m hoping for Fowler or Ngakue (sorry for spelling). I don’t trust Armstead’s breakout coming in a contact year. Seem coincidental. Drafting speed is a must.
Did Geno Smith say heads or tails? I heard heads.
Yanny or Laurel?
Clearly heads and it’s not even close
On the live game I heard heads 100%
Audio illusion. He said heads
I heard the official say heads.
BTW: Someone please explain to me. When Metcalf was running for a touchdown and the guy who was out-of-bounds tackled him. Why was there no penalty on the 49ers? The guy was out-of-bounds when he forced the fumble.
I posted a similar comment last thread. Seems so weird to me. Defender is literally out of bounds yet ripping at the player and ball. How is that not affecting the play?
Also noticed that, might be that 49ers player was OOB involuntary? Curious as well.
Field Gulls has a nice piece clarifying why it was the correct call by the refs
He doesn’t need to be in bounds to play the ball. He does have to be in bounds to recover it though. The referenced Field Gulls piece covered it pretty well.
I always thought a player out of bounds could not be the first payer to touch a loose ball in bounds.
I can only assume it is different rules for offense vs. defense. An offensive player definitely has to reestablish being inbounds, but apparently not a defender.
Rob: What is your opinion on Jamarco Jones and George Fant. Could either play right tackle if the Hawks move on from Ifedi.
Possibly, yes.
Thanks Rob
I am not saying the Hawks should move on from Ifedi. The above is just a hypothetical question.
Rob,
I am seeing a lot of mocks have the hawks drafting Raekwon Davis. I have watched a handful of games of Alabama this year and I think they are looking at his numbers from 2 years ago and I don’t think the first round hype is justified now. Am I missing something?
I think he anchors well, is an absolute beast and I’ve seen enough flashes of quickness at his massive size to think he has huge potential. But his numbers have been down for two years so teams will study the tape to see what the crack is.
I think he has huge upside as a Calais Campbell type 3 down player. Seems like Bama are using him more like a NT which may explain the numbers but what do I know.
Who as more upside and would be a better fit for Hawks
Raekwon Davis or Javon Kinlaw?
Davis and Kinlaw are very different players.
Yes that is what I meant by which would be a better fit for our scheme.
I think they fit all schemes.
Obviously the game of the year so far.
It was also obviously, a very physical game. During the game, SF lost to injury 6 players: WR-Sanders,
DL-Jones, LB-Al-Shaair, C/G-Richburg, RB-Breda and DL-Blair. While the Seahawks lost 2: Lockett & Willson. I’ve often noticed that opposing teams end up losing a lot of players during games and after games they have played against the Seahawks. That must 100% speak to their physical style of play, and may also be part of PC’s definition of the “grit” gene.
One thing I LOVED from the game last night was the defense looking for the first time this year like they were having fun and being in sync with each other. regardless of the mess of fumbles from both offenses just had that knack we’ve all been waiting for. If Carroll is wanting to preach cohesiveness between all 3 phases of ball, this is the game you look at-minus the turnovers- just had that old time feeling that we could actually bully an opponents offense, ST, and defense.
Secondly- loved that were using shaquem rushing the passer, by far his most comfortable things doing at UCF and the stats don’t show but just having that speed on the edge helped
Third- which actually could tie into #1- seems like they are dialing in more on balance between nickle and base. regardless of outcome, i just think not being predictable should be the #1 priority for this defense. if the pass rush doesn’t wake up more throughout the year having a second or two more that QBs need to think would work wonders.
(delayed reaction)
Wow. Just wow. Classic PC game. Eking out nail-biting finishes has become the norm this entire season.
Clowney puts the D on his back, then puts Jimmy G on his back… What a night to have a career performance!
So glad for the W going into the bye week to heal up. Comes at a perfect time: right after a physical slug-fest and before a gauntlet of tough games. Hopefully Lockett can bounce back right away. Also gives Josh Gordon a chance to get up to speed on the playbook. To me he looks like DK with a pair of hands out there…
This was a definite step in the right direction for the DL. Let’s hope it wasn’t a one-off. Did anyone notice a scheme tweak that helped the DL flip the script on what’s been going on the whole season so far?
I’ll enjoy the win, but I do think we were a bit fortunate with their injuries. Jones absolutely destroys Hunt from the get-go and looks like he is going to be a serious problem all game, then goes down. Flowers looks like he’s in for a long day of guarding Sanders, and Sanders goes down. No Kittle. Breida banged up too. Just seems like a lot of key matchups that could have been used to exploit us were removed, and we needed every single one of those breaks in order to get the W.
Oh, and besides being perfect on the day, Myers hits the game-winner “twice”. Heck yeah! Not to brag or anything, but… 😉😎
Go (crazy, heart attack-inducing, lifespan-reducing, nail-biting, never-a-dull-moment, equally brilliant and frustrating) Hawks!
Oh, and Geno is a cheat code at the coin toss call. He’s basically automatic now… 😜
Heck of a cheat code. He didn’t even make the call during the Bucs game. Must be some kind of sorcerer.
Great article. Pass is the priority but I’m not sure about Fowler. Get the stats but what’s his injury history and is he a good idea to pair with JC given his history of knee issues as well.
Whilst he may be franchised, could we get Clowney and sign Chris Jones rather than Reed?? Would love to sort the inside rush first which, like the nickel, is tougher to find.
Here’s to dreaming.
If you want to dream, could the Chiefs prefer to sign Chris Jones long-term and take a refund on the Frank Clark trade? Can you imagine Frank and Clowney together?!
I would prefer they keep Clark and not franchise Jones so we can get him.
Jones pushing the pocket and Clowney off the edge would be scary too.
If somehow Fowler gets a lukewarm response from the FA market, he could be the Cliff Avril signing all over again:
Avril:
6’3″ / 253 lbs / 34.6″ arms
40 yard dash – 4.63
10 yard split – 1.55
vertical leap – 32.5″
broad jump – 117″
Fowler:
6’3″ / 261 lbs / 33.8″ arms
40 yard dash – 4.60
10 yard split – 1.59
vertical leap – 32.5″
broad jump – 112″
nice comp.
Sign IFedi, Fant, and Clowney. Reed would be nice as well but we will have to see how the market is. The Tight end position has been an injury plagued situation for the hawks the whole time Carroll has been in Seattle. I really like Austin Hooper from Atlanta til he got hurt last week as a free agent signing for the hawks. Keep drafting young defensive players and let Carroll coach them up! I like the depth on the oline this season! They are starting to get some good football players instead of high measurable guys with huge upside that don’t pan out. I’m think Britt is gone unless they restructure his contract. I like having the short center for Dangeruss! I’ve been very optimistic all season and it’s good to see them step it up! Go Hawks
The bye couldnt come at a better time really. Nice to get the guys recharged while on a high from a big win. Also puts pressure on the 49ers cause they know were right there.
Rob, considering we are Russell Wilson not under throwing Hollister away from likely 2 back to back OT wins with a Hollister TD (i would need to go back but I feel he probably gets in, if not close). He has also played reasonably well. Does that change anything in your eyes as to whether or not the Hawks should be looking at TE in R2? Obviously consistency while getting his chances will be key but so far, so surprised from where I’m sitting.
I agree on Ifedi as well and hopefully we can retain him at a reasonable level since we shouldnt be allowing guys that are doing the job to leave if we can avoid it, especially OL.
Have the team needs going into the draft changing, narrowing even?
The Seahawks will need to make a significant move at TE one way or another. Ed Dickson will not be back in 2020 on his listed salary. Will Dissly has had two serious injuries. Luke Willson is a stop-gap for this year.
Even if Hollister continues to contribute, they’re lacking numbers. And while we all hope he comes back beautifully, we can’t rely on Dissly coming back and staying healthy. So they need to do something. It doesn’t have to be R2 but they need to add a TE who can contribute.
Which is the better option for Hawks?
Trade 2 round pick for OJ Howard
Draft Hunter Bryant in 2nd Round
Bryant isn’t a fit in Seattle. OJ makes way more sense as he is an all around TE (and actually a better athlete).
Bryant is a fit anywhere. Very good player. He’d fit very well across from Dissly.
OJ by a mile
I think I am with you Seamode. Dissly and Howard would be a crazy good duo going forward. With the extra 2nd this year. Would love to see JS try and pull that off.
Hopefully with the draft closer and bad teams drooling over the QBs they will be more willing to trade some of their players for the picks they can use to move up for a QB.
You have Dissly, Howard, Lockett, Metcalf, possible Gordon. Thats a ton for a team to guard. Throw in Carson running the rock and its trouble.
Clowney is for real, his impact can’t be measured by raw pass rush productivity. His production is amazing, he’s the most double teamed defensive end in the league, no player doubled as much as Clowney so his slightly above averag pass rush productivity is understandable.
His value comes on all the other stuff he does. He is an elite run defender, he makes stops all the time and is also an ace in pursuit.
His most underrated impact is in coverage. as he affects passing lanes on the short pass plays, works well in pursuit and is always a pass deflection threat. Coverage > pass rush people.
He’s not the one to generate instant pressure, but he’s unblockable on long developing plays. If the coverage is tight and the QB can’t get the pass out quick, or he plans on using long routes,
Clowney will take his time, but he’s having an impact on the play. Seahawks’ scheme is a great fit for him. He is a top shelf edge defender, with elite level impact, using a different skill set from the traditional edge defenders focused around pressuring the QB.
Also we are all on the money when we identify guys like Fowler to pair with Clowney. We need quicker penetration to compliment Clowney’s Batman.
Which is also why I think we should let Reed walk, with Clowney we could use that money to get quicker upfront.
Absolutely astonished that Taylor’s stats aren’t worse. Week after week, I see at or near 100% completion percentage against, and the eye test just makes me cringe when I see him several yards from a wide open receiver.
One thought that comes to mind is the appropriateness of comparing nickel coverage stats to that of an outside corner (Shaq, Tre). I would think that metrics like yards per completion or per target would inherently be lesser in covering the slot, given the shorter nature of a majority of the routes of that position.
That said, the passer rating against in the low 80’s is the most surprising and revealing, and gives me hesitation on how harshly I’ve judged him. Perhaps I’ve simply grown spoiled by watching a top nickel in Coleman the past couple of years, that an average replacement creates such a seemingly abhorrent impression.
Thanks, Rob! Wondering how some of our guys are healing up for next year (some in critical draft positions)…
Kalan Reed
Naz Jones
Ethan Pocic
Jordan Simmons
Demetrius Knox
Also looking at some of our PS guys for next year…
Brian Allen ?
Ryan Neal ?
Linden Stephens ?
Adrian Colbert
Bryan Mone
Chad Wheeler
Looks strong, no!?
…and Britt & Dissly (of course)
Should Pete Carroll Be On The Hotseat?
Click To Begin Slideshow
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I enjoy watching football games, and enjoy watching Pete’s teams. I know this is the big data, Moneyball era, but sometimes numbers alone can’t adequately explain why teams win or lose. I’m not discounting the use of stats; they’re absolutely essential in analyzing sports and just about everything else, but it’s black swans (Taleb) and the butterfly effect that more often than not determine outcome.
I’ll throw in ‘the perfect is the enemy of the good’. And the Seahawks are good, really good, even though they’ll never match the ‘perfect’ imagined by the quants. And that ‘perfect’ has probably never existed. Humans play the game, after all.
But football and sports are fun for me. As Chance the Gardener said, ‘I like to watch’.
This is your heart.
This is your heart on Seahawks football: https://twitter.com/LeeSharpeNFL/status/1194122335105667078
Should Mic Jagger be in Rock-n-roll hall of fame? He’s not perfect by a long shot but somehow…
Yikes.
Time will tell how good Jimmy G ends up being, but 2019 has not been a great case for his future as a top QB or a QB who can win you some playoff games. It will not be possible for the 49ers to maintain the type of elite DL they have constructed, so this year and next might be their only shots at this if Garopolo ends up not being the right guy.
Look at the Rams w/ Goff on year 3 of contention window…
Not sure they should have revealed this info. Useful for next game against him?
Now next time just catch the dang gift INTs…
That was my reaction. Not sure why they said all that.
Have observed this tendency many times I M the past when they win a big upset.
Agree 100% Sea Mode and Rob! Why would you let them know that you had insight into their play calling when we have to play them at least one more time at the end of the year, possibly for home field advantage and maybe again in the playoffs? Now they know we’re looking for certain tip-offs, and can scheme for that and run fake or trick plays to help them win next time or 2. Certainly helped us that their pro-bowl/all-pro TE Kittle was out, probably won’t be in the later game(s), also that their new #1 WR Sanders went out early.
Agreed! And stop the dang fumbles!
I will take it with a pinch of salt since they did not pick
Ive been saying for years that they need to have these DB’s and LB’s running through the WR drills. That attempt by KJ was so bad. It was thrown right at him and it never even touched his hand.
Give KJ a break, he was just trying to wrap the ball up at the hips and drive his legs like Pete taught him 😉
no but seriously, was he trying to bear hug it? LOLOLOL
It could be that he’s still dealing with a stinger. It would explain his inability to raise his right arm as quickly as he would like. KJ is a warrior, but a very intelligent one that is in the right places, more than not.
Nothing special here.
Even if that’s true, there is nothing to be gained by saying it.
You never let your enemy know you’ve broken their codes.
Sun Tzu:
“All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.”
Bobby is just getting in their heads making them THINK that the Seahawks know their calls. In reality, he and KJ don’t have a clue, just being aggressive in hunting for the ball. It will get Shanahan doubting himself and changing up schemes for no reason 😀
Jacob Hollister shouldve had 4 TDs in the last 2 games. It’s not his fault he doesnt. 2 game winners. We cant count on Dissly but I really don’t believe that TE is one of our top needs. Seems we can get production out of “no name TEs” I’m not convinced an early TE is the best route. Not to mention how cheap they are to sign. Jack Doyle or Ebron, Cam Brate etc will be FAs.
DE is #1 by a country mile. If Reed leaves DT will be #2. WR isnt as much of a need as it is a great time to draft a WR early, I’m putting that above TE.
Britt is getting older, hurt at the moment and Hunt isn’t the answer. I put C/G above TE.
I’d put TE above secondary based off what we’ve seen so far.
So I’d say TE is a top 5 need, but far from a true NEED. I’d rather trade back for depth picks honestly.
Looks like they are grooming Phil Haynes to be a future center. It will be interesting how Julian Okwara tests at the combine as he could be a good speed guy off the edge. If Gordon resigns then for sure DLine or Oline.
Pete was asked about Haynes at center and he just said he’s spent a bit of time looking at that. It was a pretty nondescript answer that was pumped up a bit by the media. Pete spoke more about how they love his size for the guard spots.
Tight end is a need. Clearly improving the pass rush is the top need but TE is on the list of other needs that will need to be addressed with urgency. And it will be.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see it. I just personally would go cheap on TEs.
I think TE is massively underrated for this offense by fans. Losing Dissly essentially provoked the Gordon signing and the Brown talk. They spent a R1 on Graham and paid huge money for the time to Zach Miller. I think it’s a vital piece due to their commitment to the run, much more than many realise.
What TE would you prefer, considering Bryant of UW who you’ve written about, may be taken late 1st, early 2nd with his speed, and we may take a DE, OT Wilson and/or one of the many great WRs with our early picks. Do you see any great blocking TEs that can also be a threat receiving that may be available on day 2 or early day 3? Chances are good that JS is going to do several trades down and up like most years to acquire more day 2 and day 3 picks.
I like Jake Ferguson at Wisconsin. There are some options at TE but not a great looking class. I will dig into blocking with them down the line.
Oregon TE Jacob Breeland
Purdue TE Brycen Hopkins
Oregon St. TE Noah Togiai
Those are my front-runners for the Hawks at the moment. If you want some more names, here is my TE deep dive, part 2:
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/how-the-seahawks-can-improve-their-pass-rush-in-2020#comment-457787
Also, I wanna point out something that Clowney brings that I haven’t seen any one give him credit for.
He brings speed to the defense. From a DL. He keeps contain like a speedy LB. He can cover from the DL. Thats insane. That’s why he was a #1 pick. Not many human beings are as versatile as he is.
I mean imagine we had a loaded DL and Kendricks got hurt. Clowney could be the SAM lol… ridiculous. So effing glad to have that dude.
Yall wanted a blue chip, yall got him. Hes gotta be a Hawk for life.
Whats your guys thoughts on Penny getting more carries. Even though he fumbled I think they need to sprinkle him in more. Like 7-10 carries. Carson is getting used like a dog and is going to want to get paid fat bank at the end of this season. If he is smart he will hold out assuming they dont try and extend him already. We need to know what we have with Penny but he doesnt get enough carries to know.
Carson holding out will be futile and achieve nothing. He hasn’t warranted a big extension based on his 2018 performance thanks to all of these fumbles. If he holds out they’ll simply roll with Penny and say, ‘see you when you’re ready Chris’. I can’t imagine he will even consider holding out. He’s not a top-five pick and household name like Zeke. Holding out did nothing for Melvin Gordon who was also a R1 pick and has done a lot more than Carson to date.
I’m hopeful they can carve out a niche for him. 7-10 touches a game. He’s such an explosive player and a good blocker, it’s weird that we can’t figure out how to use him.
Do you think Gordon could be on the Seahawks radar for signing at the RB position?
What would be the right price to bring him in….. 6M/year?
I don’t think they’ll spend big to sign a RB.
Why would Carson hold out? Isn’t he a FA after this year?
Never mind, Carson doesn’t hit FA until 2021
I just saw that our next game got flexed from a Sunday night prime time game to a another 10:00am Sunday morning game. What a drag. They could have at least made it a 1:00pm game for us.
That does stink. Doesn’t make any sense either. We just won 2 OT games including one of the best games of the year against SF and are one of the leaders in the league with an 8-2 record, and the Eagles are tied for the lead in the NFC East.
I don’t understand how they get away with that. What about the people from out f state flying in the day of the game What they have to change flights, what if there is no space on earlier flights? I would be pissed if it was me, then again I am always pissed.
It’s been coming down the pipe for some time now, the Eagles are about to be knocked out of the hunt after this weekend. It’s not the Hawks they’re shying away from, it’s the Eagles. 9ers-Packers a much more compelling game, too.
best game since beating SF in the Playoffs
You and Russ are forgetting about the NFCCG against GB.
2019 Week 10: Seahawks at 49ers | Seahawks All Access
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g_jKRGJ_dc&t=8s
Amazing win. Special performance by D, sparked by the pass rush.
One thing that’ll be telling to watch in future: if teams double-team Clooney, will Seattle’s D still be able to get pressure?
My understanding is that 49ers were one of few teams to guard him one on one. I do worry whether we can get a rush going if he’s neymutralizef with a double team.
Other guys won last night too, so that is encouraging. Very few snaps went to Ziggy, which is encouraging they are willing to mix things up. If JC gets doubled a lot again, hopefully others can capitalize.
The other part that is hopefully quite reproducible is the S play. Having speed, and hitting back at FS made everyone better. It’s like the rest of the coverage guys felt more confident, and the SF WRs were getting worried about getting hit.
I’m going to need to see it show again, but such a good sign that the D can impact the game.
Rob, great articles all the time. I’ve been noticing recently more stats interlaced in them, backing up and reinforcing your points. Have you gotten PFF in the last few weeks, or is the info from another site? Saw a lot of detailed stats in your 11/4 report – “What the numbers say about Seattle’s defense”, also a great read: https://seahawksdraftblog.com/what-the-numbers-say-about-seattles-defense
Does that site have hits, hurries and pressures for college players too? It’s easy to google leaders in sacks – https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/36 and TFLs – https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/player-stat/defense-tackles-for-loss , but it would be helpful to be able to find what players can get to the QB in those other ways as well. The redshirt freshman DL from Miami Gregory Rousseau (6’6″ 260) looks to be a future and current star with 12 sacks and 16 TFLs in 10 games. And someone here mentioned the SMU safety Patrick Nelson who has 9 sacks and 12 TFLs – probably plays at the line as a hybrid LB that rushes off the edge very frequently.
I use pro football reference
Thanks Rob. Best part about pro football reference is it’s mostly free unless you want no ads. Ideas where to find stats on hits, hurries and pressures for college (and pro) players on opposing QBs besides PFF?
11+ weeks into the college season – any upcoming Google Hangouts podcasts or guesting on Field Gulls or the Pedestrian podcast? This is far and away my favorite Seahawks site, with easily the most informative and detailed articles. Planning to go to the Senior Bowl in a couple months?
Unfortunately Google Hangouts doesn’t exist any more, they pulled it. I have no podcast appearances lined up but am open to offers.
I would love to attend the Senior Bowl and will see if it’s possible. I’ve been intending to go for a long time.
Is Dave Wyman going to have you on his show during draft season? I love 710, but they are idiots if you are not a guest on somebody’s show this draft season.
I would love to do that.
WOOO HOOOOOO
8-2 at the BYE!
Rob (and the gang)
Shouldn’t John Schneider get some GM of the Year love this season?
He has done a hell of a job attracting talent and more importantly trading for talent as the season has progressed. Easily one of the great heists of Seahawks history was trading for Clowney. But the less heralded moves throughout the season, involving draft picks and players moving around…. masterful. This is the type of season I wish we could get a book about the behind the scenes action. Starting with prior to the draft clear through the end of the year….. he is just too awesome.
Yes but most importantly signing RW to an extension. That’s the Mona Lisa right there.
RW is in the final year of his 2nd contract and he’s already outperforming the extension he signed that locks him in for 4 more seasons. With the new CBA, the Mahomes/Dak/Watson extensions will far exceed this deal and while those teams are handcuffed to a massive cap hit, the Hawks will have room to pay their MVP level QB and still add pieces.
Without doubt
Absolutely
I sure hope all of JS’s moves get recognized for the impact they are having on this team. Obviously the Clowney addition gets all the attention, and it is turning out to be a brilliant move. Hard to imagine this defense without his presence.
But how good does the Hollister trade look now? Hawks would be in dire straights at TE right now without that minor move.
It’s only one game, but the trade for Q Diggs looks like a great under the radar move as well. He brings something to the defense they didn’t have before he arrived.
Even the low risk move for Josh Gordon looks good early on! He had two very key catches Monday night, contributing to the win.
It’s to early yet to fully critique the 2019 draft class, but clearly there is a few guys with great potential after they get more acclimated to the NFL.
John gets my vote (if only I had one)!!
Honestly I completely don’t understand why you people think so highly of Ifedi and want to give him $10-12M APY, and Rob, you cherry-picked stats too.
Before niners game, Ifedi allowed 32 QB pressures, which is most in the NFL, and while his pass blocking grade is 71.9, his run blocking grade fell below 60.
Ifedi improved from a bad stretch from week 1-5, but his overall grade in week 6-8 has never surpassed 68. That’s only average starter level in the PFF system, and certainly doesn’t mean a La’el Collins level contract (he signed a 5-year, $50M deal).
Drafting a new Right Tackle or promote Jamarco Jones would be my choice next year.
And some people are talking about giving Fant a $10M APY contract? Are you forgetting he allowed 8 pressures in Browns game vs. Garrett, and 7 of them came from the 2-min drill before halftime? He’s nowhere near the $5-7M APY level and certainly not at NFL starter level.
On other part of this article I completely agree though, maybe except the Tre Flowers part. Passer rating allowed is not a good stat sometimes, at least when you compared him with Griffin.
Ifedi is not worth 10 mil but 5-7 mil a year…I’ll do that deal. He hasn’t been great but he’s been fairly healthy and provides consistency on the line.
$5-7M would be my extension offer, but he likely will test the market, he’s young and experienced (bad exp tbh), maybe some dumb teams would offer higher and give us a 4th round comp pick. BTW, who still remembers that Jamarco Jones was on his way to first-team RT before his injury in 2018, surpassing Ifedi?
Consistency means nothing to Seahawks’ O-Line though, they’re shifting all the time because of the veteran/rookie mixed line building strategy of Mike Solari. Don’t be surprised if Duane Brown is the only remaining starter next year. Pocic, Haynes, Hunt, Jones, ideally anyone of them would step up, plus rookies next year.
As for veterans, Iupati is a stop-gap for this season. Fluker is injury-prone and inconsistent. Britt is average at best since extension and his $8.75M cap should be spent elsewhere, I’d count him as a cap casualty long time ago.
I don’t know the draft stock of O-Line next year though. If some decent LT dropped to our lap, we should pick them and prepare for the time after Duane Brown.
This team has a next-up mentality, no need to change this.
Ifedi is flat out one of the worst RT in the league. Still mediocre in both pass and run protection, still too slow to grasp and dirty hands; untenable, because that small amount of improvement comes from the fact, that we constantly play a T E or RB as a blocker to protect him, plus we lift his pressure proneness by quick releases. He basically plays like a rookie. His quality is, that he is durable, that he actually plays and that he is a known commodity.
If he were a DL player, Rob would grow insane and vote for playing a vet or improve through drafting a top pick.
The problem with vets? In 2020 FA, quality on both tackle spots is just not there. Jack Conklin is the sole player making sense, but he is struggling at times, too. The rest are 30+ players. Also, if we think playing vets is in itself the solution… not so fast, young padawan! Our OL is the second most experienced, but is in bottom third in pressures, sacks, QB hits and pass blocking, and mediocre in run blocking.
If we cannot resign Ifedi to a cheap (3-5m) contract, Jamarco Jones is in fact the best option. What we’ll find is, that there are prospects in R2-3 of the draft and even later, that could be real dingers. And there are reasonable top prospects in R1, too. There is reason to think, that some of them could fall into our range.
And on top of all, we don’t know if Duane Brown comes back in 2020, and how many games his body can deliver. So, this could grow into a major rebuild.
Ifedi is not ‘flat out one of the worst tackles in the league’.
Rhetoric like this is why the discussion gets frustrating. Seahawks fans identify the guys they don’t like and then we get stuff like this.
Not cherry picking anything. I mentioned his pass blocking grade. And I don’t trust the pressures stat with him because he plays with a scrambling QB. My eye test tells me he’s doing just fine. People love to rag on Ifedi but you’ll miss him when he is gone.
Ifedi’s pass blocking grades this season by far are:
Week 1 vs. Bengals – 49.5
Week 2 vs. Steelers – 57.0
Week 3 vs. Saints – 43.9
Week 4 vs. Cardinals – 45.5
Week 5 vs. Rams – 36.0
Week 6 vs. Browns – 60.2
Week 7 vs. Ravens – 64.9
Week 8 vs. Falcons – 74.2
Week 9 vs. Buccanners – 60.4
Week 10 vs. 49ers – 71.9
These grades definitely support my view from snap-to-snap film analysis I did on my own. Huge kudos to Sniper1154 from Reddit.
If you want to convince people Ifedi is a solid RT by PFF ratings, I suggest you look at the bigger view, and the fact is, he improved since week 5, but he is only an average starting RT. A good year? Compared to his previous 3 seasons, maybe, but a far cry from a good player in the NFL.
I would not miss his drive-killing penalties, ever.
You’re arguing against yourself with those numbers. That simply shows he’s been decent for a few weeks after a rough start (that the whole line experienced).
If you want to convince anyone of your argument, you might actually want to read your own stats.
I was arguing against your ‘Ifedi is having a good year’ line. His overall passing grade is still subpar unless he dramatically improved in final 6 games.
If you want to convince anyone by a single 49ers. game, fine, your misjudgement is not news anymore.
I’ll say it again, your numbers prove my point for me.
Week 6 vs. Browns – 60.2
Week 7 vs. Ravens – 64.9
Week 8 vs. Falcons – 74.2
Week 9 vs. Buccanners – 60.4
Week 10 vs. 49ers – 71.9
Two really good games, three decent games in pass pro. After a rough start for the WHOLE line, these numbers completely back up the point I’m making.
Really appreciate you supporting my point for me. Big help.
Thrown in the fact that Monday’s game was against a lot of Bosa, it was his best game in my opinion.
Bosa and Ford had zero impact.
Bet nobody expected that before the game.
Exactly Rob! I find it hard to read when guys are bashing the O-line after that game. Yes there were a few mistakes and bad plays, but overall they did a fantastic job against one of the best D-lines in the game! We never heard Bosa’s name called at all and I saw many times where Ifedi did a great job on his side.
Just curious, where does Ifedi rank in penalties against this season? Seems to me he has been much better with that…
We really don’t want to start all over with the O-line in the offseason, but I do think we’ll see some change. I really hope Ifedi and Fant are retained at reasonable deals, Britt restructures his contract and Haynes and Jones make the next jump.
I wonder if we will ever see OL sub packages for game situations. Let’s say hypothetically Fluker is far better in run blocking than pass protection and Jones is superior in pass pro. Why wouldn’t you sub your offensive lineman in obvious passing situations or possibly 2 minute drills.
I get the part about continuity along the line and they all work together but by employing this method as long as it isn’t wholesale changes on the OL might work.
The unfortunate reality these days is that good lineman (Hutchison and Jones types) are so very rare due to the lack of talent and education in college football. Drafting another OT in the first isn’t going to upgrade the position because it will likely be a similar player to Ifedi. As Rob has pointed out this year, there are few very good OL worth drafting in the first, and the Seahawks will likely (hopefully) be picking late in the round. Any player you select there will likely be closer to Ifedi than Tyron Smith.
As far as paying Ifedi goes, $10+ mill is unfortunately the going rate for veteran tackles. Fieldgulls did some great articles on this last year. Nobody’s OL is good enough anymore, so decent players get over paid.
Lastly, I’ve hardly noticed Ifedi the last few games, and that’s good. He’s had a few penalties, but a far cry from last year where it felt like every 3rd down was a false start. Against the 9ers he adequately handled Bosa and Dee Ford, two top flight pass-rushers. Is he ever going to be great? No. Is he better than the alternative? Almost certainly.
And that’s the point. We’ve barely noticed Ifedi for weeks even against the best DL and pass rush in the league. But some people are so invested in their dislike of certain players they can’t see the wood from the trees.
‘Just draft a tackle in R1’
You mean like Ifedi?
‘Just spend money on a veteran’
What good OL is hitting FA in this era of the NFL? A reclamation project, a bad player or a player with flags.
Ifedi isn’t amazing. He isn’t a liability either. Not the way certain people have you believe.
I agree whole heartedly Rob. I think some fans (if you want to call them that), are so stuck on the pre-draft analysis from 2016 or initial rough patches they can’t see the tremendous success story that he has become. He was considered raw coming out of Texas A&M. He has come so far, and his game has gotten so much better. You could not ask more for a late first round pick.He is now a four year starter in the NFL. He plays with a nasty swagger that we have been wanting. Is he perfect? No. But we must not make the same mistakes that Some made in judging guys like James Carpenter who has gone on to have a solid NFL career. He wasn’t perfect but he was a nice piece on the championship offensive line. He was missed when he left.
I mean, compare him to a guy like Conklin who had an all pro first year and has severely regressed sense. At this point who would you rather have? I think we should be thankful that we have some homegrown offensive linemen making a difference for our team- And, due to smart drafting it looks like we have some more in the depth chart waiting for their opportunity.
Ifedi’s a good player. The penalties were a lightning rod for discontent, but he’s cleaned that up. I’m as guilty as the next about picking which PFF stats I want to observe and when, but the eye test to me shows an effective NFL RT. As long as he’s not asking for Osemele money I think it’s a wise investment to keep the continuity of competence we’ve recently achieved on our OL intact…
This comment isn’t personal to you Moondust because I see many fans do it, so please don’t take it that way. But if PFF grades are the primary basis of an argument for or against a player, that argument isn’t going to be very persuasive.
I don’t have the inclination to provide a list of examples where PFF grades just didn’t match the reality of a player’s on-field performance, but I’m sure other SDBers will agree that PFF have a well documented history of giving out some head scratching grades for players whose game tapes were utterly at odds with the grade given. And I mean that in both ways — overstating and understating a player’s performance.
Also, I don’t care how Ifedi plays relative to other RTs around the League as much as I care how he plays for SEA. Does he protect Wilson? Does he help the running game? Does he limit his penalties? Certainly in the last 6 games, he’s protected Wilson, helped the running game, and notwithstanding a penalty here or there, has also cleaned up his game significantly.
Between Fant and Jones, SEA are fortunate enough not to need to overpay to extend Ifedi. But he’s still their best option at RT.
I see fant as a 2 to 4 mil apy player. I think he’s more valuable to us than any other team. As for Ifedi, if we can get him at 8 mil apy that would be ideal, the cap will grow and that should help. I just wouldn’t want to see us bring our offensive line to the studs over a couple mil. If we end up without Britt, Iupati and Ifedi next year, our O line will regress greatly.
Rob:
Clowney had his best game as a Seahawk against the 9ers. Two reasons for this is:
1- He is beginning to understand his role in the Seahawks D.
2- Reed is starting to come around. There was more consistent pressure up the middle, which was a major cause of Jimmy boy’s angst.
I agree about Ziggy. He may be washed up. His offside penalty spotted the 9ers 5 yards on 3rd and 10 and could have been critical. You can accept that if he plays like Michael Bennett, but not how Ziggy Ansah has been playing.
I couldn’t really tell how well Shaquem Griffin played, but do you think he shows some promise?
I don’t think Griffin had much of an impact as a rusher. Seemed to get blocked out quite easily.
From my vantage point it looked like Shaquem just ran straight into the tackle play after play. Not sure that’s a sound strategy when you’re 230 and the tackle is 300+. Get around the corner with your spend and bend a little man!
I also noticed that Cha
https://youtu.be/ZRN5QocOWj8
Yup
Anakin: “I’ll try spinning, that’s a good trick…”
I was also disapointed in what I saw of Griffin. I think we were lucky the 49ers didn’t exploit the fact Griffin was on the field. He took himself out of all the plays I saw. I would have checked to a play his direction everytime he was out there. Ziggy has not been getting to the QB, but is not the liability that griffin is. Also Griffin needs to put in his mouthguard.
Like a pinball bounced around the pocket.
When he went over the line, all I thought was “even his encroachment is slow.” It’s a shame.
Maybe Ziggy gets cut to activate Dickson, it would give Collier an opportunity to suit up.
Unfortunately that’s a not a like-for-like comparison. Collier is about as slow as Ansah already, lucky for him he plays a different position. A shame we can’t get Collier on the field, I think the real culprit is he’s being blocked by Clowney. We drafted Collier before we had a base end, but you can’t take clowney off the field, and he’s no LEO…
Just got back in town. I can’t add much more about the game that hasn’t already been said. Here’s some quick thoughts on my gameday experience:
* Levi’s stadium is amazing. Great venue. Having it in Santa Clara allowed them to have room for pretty decent parking, and tons of gates. Security was a snap. Also had escalators to the upper levels. Took just a few mins from gate to get to the 400 level on the other side of the stadium. Fantastic. Also had a foghorn sounding 60 and 30 min notices to player introductions.
* Great representation by the 12’s. Hard to put a figure on it but our group guessed 10-15% of the fans were 12’s. Had plenty of fans around the stadium and we had a pretty good camaraderie. At worst you got a nod and/or fist-bump from a 12. At best you got waved into a tailgate and offered some refreshment.
* Are the Niner fans as loud as the 12s? I’d say no.
* No doubt they’re passionate about their team but seemingly not as game-aware. They constantly got loud when the Niners had the ball and the stadium crew played a video of Jimmy G “shushing” the crowd a bunch of times. Hilarious.
* Pretty good spirit by the Niner fans towards 12s. Immediately struck up with 4 enthusiastic Niner fans right in front of us. They were impressed we flew in for the game. We both acknowledged to each other when each of our teams made a great play or had a big goof. Fun and full throated rooting for your team without being a jerk about it. The sweetest though – the oldest one of the 4 (wearing a Roger Craig jersey) motioned me close during the game and whispered ‘I love the Seahawks but I can’t tell my son over there. It would break his heart!’ Seahawks even have closet fans!
* Same as above, but this deserves special mention. RW is a cold-blooded heartbreaking assassin and fans of the other team know it. After the first Q when everything was Niners, some were getting cocky. Fellow Niner fans actually admonished them to knock it off, that there was a lot of football left to play and RW would bring them roaring back! And late in the game and OT several Niner fans just had this…dread(?) to them. A resigned acknowledgement that RW was going to find a way to will the Hawks to victory. It was sweet.
* Quick anecdote. As we exited the stadium, one exasperated Niner fan couldn’t hold it in any more. With all his might, every fibre of his being he shouted at the top of his lungs….”F*&# SEATTLE! GOD DAMMIT PETE CARROLL!!” It was a moment of pure catharsis for him and all we could do was bust up laughing. Hawks are 5-0 on the road and it warms my heart that fans all over the country are cursing the Hawks as they leave their stadium in disbelief.
* I’ve been privileged to see several incredible Seahawks games in person. Fail Mary. Bo Jackson running over Bosworth. RW’s first ever start vs Tennessee in preseason. The Niner game where Kam cleaned Vernon’s clock. The Lombardi banner unveiling / beatdown of the Packers. Most recently, the TNF Rams game with Lockett’s physics-defying toe tapper. Seeing RW and PC rush the field and dance in celebration and Myers getting the on-the-shoulders treatment goes right up on the shelf with those. A memory I’ll cherish forever.
I love hearing about fan experiences in other stadiums. I’ve been on the East coast for 16 years now and have seen more Hawks games away from Seattle than I have at home.
In my experience, the general feeling towards Wilson from opposing fans is identical to yours, they get a sense of dread if the game is close and he gets the ball late. They all seem to know that 4th quarter (or OT) is where he really shines.
Thanks for the read!
Great stuff, man. Thanks for taking the time to share!
+1
Enjoyed this comment
I am curious, if it had been a night game and you had all your reservations and the game had been flexed to 100pm would that have caused you problems?
Well it was MNF so I didn’t have to think of that.
Regardless, I have had too many times where cutting it close on schedule bit me in the butt so I push my group a little to get down there early and get settled. So at worst a flex would mean we don’t get a good parking spot and maybe have to go right in instead of taking in pregame stuff.
Pro Tip: SF is a great option for an away game as Oakland, SF, and even Sacramento airports are all relatively close. So they’re price protected. Flight from Seattle and a ticket to the game cost slightly more than a game at CLink.
Nice review. Thanks.
Fun read. Thanks
The current DL just had that marquee game that teams need to build upon. That game when it all went according to plan or better is crucial in the development of a unit.
I always like to look at a process rather than the last game. Last year, after game 4, I pointed to the process on offense that proved itself all the way till now.
When the season started the DL faced the following:
No reed for 6 games and will probably need an extra 2-3 games to get in football shape. Ansah still recovering from surgery and far from physically in shape (Even now he still misses 10-15 pounds of muscles to be at his usually playing form). Cloweny just arrived and will need time to get in sink with the rest of the team. QJeff missing games just when Reed returned did not help.
It was clear to me back then that we’ll have to wait till the 2nd half of the season before we can evaluate what this unit can or can not do.
The bye came at the perfect time for this unit with the top 4 pass rushers Ansah, QJeff, Reed & Clowney healthy and getting healthier.
I am very eager to see how this unit performs over the next 3 games at PHI, vs MIN and at LAR. If the process is indeed taking an upward curve they can pull the whole defense up with them.
Do not be surprised if the seahawks will march into January with a decent plus defense.
Also, while Blair impressed with his hard hitting style, he was way too often stuck too far back, late in reading the plays and breaking down to prevent receivers from cutting inside and breaking free from the corners trailing them. It made for great hits on catches that should have been prevented in the first plac. Digs did a much better job of it. What made Earl so great was not just his 40 speed, it was how fast and instinctive he read the play and set out to intercept.
Chris Carsons’ persistent fumbling is becoming a real issue.
It can’t continue. And yet it shows no signs of stopping.
He needs to talk to Tiki Barber, or whoever Barber talked to to clear up his issues. I can’t remember exactly who/what changed, but it was almost an overnight change that he went from 1-2 fumbles a game to just a couple over a season.
Its not a good thing when you get a pit in your stomach every time your RB touches the ball.
I was thinking same thing about Carson’s fumblitus.
https://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/bob-glauber/tiki-barber-knows-how-to-fix-david-wilson-s-fumble-problems-1.6053702
Just something that came to my mind: could it perhaps be a little tougher for him since he has really long arms? I know it’s not a determining factor, but maybe it does influence a bit as to how he holds the ball. Same with DK?
Either way, he’s been fine going into contact with two hands on the ball. Just needs to do that more consistently and develop a better sense of when contact is coming from a side angle or from the back. Basically, I guess just always expect it. 🤷♂️
I don’t have the technical expertise to judge what the issue is — but it’s a problem that just isn’t going away. And while his running style is tailor made for this team, he can’t keep putting the ball on the turf. Having 11 fumbles in 10 games as a team is bizarre and it’s a team-wide problem not just a Carson problem. But he’s the main culprit and there’s a lot at stake here for him. He can be the feature back on this team for years and earn a lot of money. Or he’s going to jeopardise that completely unless he sorts this out.
Don’t leave Metcalf out of the fumble equasion. One he did became a TD, the one Monday completely killed a positive gain and a probable coffin nail score. He also needs to use his size/strength to box out defenders better. RW needs to throw the ball higher to him, and if there is a single knock on RW this year is he has been low on almost every throw that has hurt the team.
Yep that’s two big fumbles by Metcalf now. His inability to high point anything bothers me more at the moment though.
Russ’s rainbow throws even when not required are the problem. He is throwing them short too.
I’m seeing the same thing. Russ needs to put some zip on those sideline passes to Metcalf and let him go up and get them; they are consistently falling back toward the shorter DB, and DK has to reach down across the defender (while leaping up and away) to get a hand on them.
Rob, I don’t know how he can high-point those balls.
I will say he can win more contested catches, though. He is physical with the ball in his hands, but he has not yet realized his physical potential in hand-fighting, boxing out, or leveraging DB’s to the catch point.
Should he use his size more? Yes. Was that his game at the collegiate level? Hell no. What makes him unique is he’s all these smaller receivers in this years draft but is 6’4, 230 lbs.
If I remember correctly, Penny also had a fumble in SF. I was watching how the 9er defense was going after them. The Seattle fumbles may have been in part to the focus on causing fumbles by the 49er defense. They would gang tackle / pull the ball out. That is reminiscent of the great Seattle D’s of not to long ago.
Read an article that said Pete talked to Metcalf about knowing when to fight for yards and when to go down to maintain control of the ball.
I believe Pete said the long arm thing too about Carson on one of his morning after shows. I never thought about it for DK. He just has to find a balance between fighting for the extra yard and holding on to the ball. Technique can he improved but also risk/reward
For DK, he just needs to hold the ball with two arms when he goes all bull mode. It’s fun to watch. but he does need to protect the ball better.
Carson missed his block (resulting in Russ/Ifedi’s fumble ) and simply gave up on his play showing no hustle and not helping his QB from being gang tackled is a bad look. Probably too much ice in his veins and that’s the reason for his continuing fumble issue
When a player repeatedly fumbles due to a technical issue such as happened during the first three games opponents target that weakness. It’s blood in the water. Even though Chris has worked to fix the issue teams are aggressively going for the punch out. It will continue until he proves he can hold on to the ball. On the other hand, while they’re going for the ball they can’t be tackling him which means more yards after contact.
Unsurprisingly, Clowney names Defensive Player of the Week.
People can see his disruptive play and he won’t need the stats to get paid. If he continues to play at this level the rest of the season, he’ll be tough to keep. If they do, they’ll need to break policy and sign him to more than a 3 year deal (Russ the exception precedent).
Also, I don’t think $20+ per and $45 guaranteed are out of the question (comping Demarcus Lawrence and Frank Clark). Market appears comfortable going 5 years on these types of players as well.
Obviously he’ll need to keep this pace the rest of the season to get this contract and I’d love to keep him, it’s just be out of pattern for the Hawks unfortunately.
Eventually they’re going to have to pay someone on the DL.
I think given his age, running blocking ability, game-wrecking ability and fit — they have to go all-out to get him. I think they will. The Seahawks and Clowney are good for each other and they have the money.
The big question for me is who they pair him with next season. I’m increasingly convinced Dante Fowler is a guy to target.
I’d love for that to be the case and agree that if they splurge on the Line it needs to be on Clowney.
I was skeptical of Fowler Last year and thought the Rams we’re getting a dud, but pleasantly surprised with his consistency.
I’m also curious to see if they keep the same scheme next year with KJ and Kendricks or invest in Nickel CB. I don’t yet see how it would impact Clowney, but speculate one less backer to worry about for opposing Oline could mean more doubles on him. This would support the need you suggest in finding a bash brother to pair.
I think they will almost certainly add a nickel. Their modus operandi so far has been so seek a type and look for cheap value so I’m not expecting them to go after C.J. Henderson or Chris Harris. Whoever they bring in will probably be a relative unknown. But they’ll do something there. They have a big call to make on Wright and Kendricks in the off-season.
I think the Kendricks experiment is falling out of favor, and old reliable KJ is showing why he’s the right fit for this team.
I don’t think so… I think there are positives about Kendricks but some issues (missed tackles) and KJ is KJ. Extremely reliable and solid if getting up in years. Wish he’d made that pick the other night… I’m still drained from that overtime period.
My only hesitation with Fowler is that he feels like a first wave of FA headliner. I’ve just not seen us go after those guys very often
In fairness he lingered in FA last year and had to sign a prove-it deal.
IMO, Fant will look for an opportunity to start somewhere. With Brown at LT until 2022, Fant’s return depends on what happens with Ifedi.
My Q: Can Fant play RT? Is he what the Seahawks look for at RT? If I’m betting, money on Ifedi returning and Fant departing (2 years / $14m) in free agency.
SEA signs very few players that they let get to the position Ifedi does. Maybe someone has the #’s but he’s very likely gone.
Seeing as how we’re moving into the bye week, I would just like to take a moment to recognize how great it is to be a Seahawk fan right now. Our team is as competitive as any in the league. We will be playing significant games for the next two months. Win or lose it will be exciting. This was supposed to be a rebuild year. We have a ton of cap Space for next year in our franchise/MVP quarterback is signed up for the long term. Our offense of line has stabilized and we have a slew of young talented receivers. To boot, we will have a ton of early draft picks coming up. How many teams fan bases can post all of these things? The future looks good. I’d also like to point out that our head coach and his staff have a proven formula that has helped them win consistently for almost a decade now. We are not One of these flash in the pan teams with the trendy young head coach who has initial success but then struggles once the rest of the league has figured out how to adjust to his “modern concepts.“ Whatever comes these next six games, what a great time to be a fan of the Seahawks.
While I point out all the wonderful parts of being a Seahawks fan right now, I would be remiss if I failed to mention that we have Rob Staton who provides wonderful insight and analysis for us as well as a wonderful blog/forum community. Rob takes the time out from his beautiful family to geek out with us over our shared love of the Hawks and I hope he knows how appreciated he is.
Thank you 👏🏻
Hear hear!! This has been an awesome decade to be a Seahawks fan. And Rob’s website is a great place to discuss it.
Some notes on extensions:
1 – Clowney is a cornerstone and we should build our DL around his skillset. The best deal imo would be a 3-year 23 mil APY. He’ll have another mega deal when he’s 30 in his prime.
2 – Shaquill Griffin is currently our second best defensive player and has played really close to All Pro level but extend him now is worrysome because he has had only one season at this level. We should have him in the Frank Clark route – have him play through all his rookie contract and if he keeps his 2019 performance, tag him for 2021.
3 – Carson could decide between a mid level early contract extension and set his family up for lifetime right now (3-year 9 mil APY) or play out his rookie contract, clean up his fumble issues and target a mega deal. He’s elite at getting yards after contact, yards after catch, breaking tackles and he’s third in success rate per Football Outsiders (57%), but his fumbling issues negates all these elite traits and puts him right on the above average, not elite category.
4 – Ifedi’s contract has a blueprint: Britt’s. Britt when got his extension was the second highest paid center in APY but on a shorter deal (3 seasons), backloaded and little guarantees on final season. 3-year, 11 mil APY with 16 mil on his final season (13 mil guaranteed). We can pay him handsomely but he’ll have to play handsomely to earn it.
5 – DT logjam. I like our DT group a lot but imo neither Reed or Jefferson are the right guys to commit long term. We need more quick penetration to compliment Clowney and neither those guys bring it. I’d like Al Woods for another 1-year contract, though. Extend Al Woods, let Reed and Jefferson go unless they settle for team friendly 1-year prove it deals. We spent significant draft capital on DEs that can reduce inside (Collier, Green) and Ford + Woods + Mone is imo a good starting point.
6 – Kendricks: if he stays out of jail, he stays out of Seahawks price tag because I don’t believe we’re cutting Wright to extend Kendricks.
7 – Hollister was a steal and 2nd round tender is imperative here.
8 – WR logjam. I like a lot Gordon but we can sign him late in the offseason if he stays out of trouble. Out of the rest, Turner is the only one exceeding expectations with his performance. His run blocking is encouraging, he seems the fastest and best in the scramble drill. Moore and Brown are disappointing. This final stage of the season and playoffs is going to be huge for all those guys.
9 – Fant, Willson and Hunt are important pros that will help us a lot. Fant offers swing tackle and jumbo TE and Willson is a nice insurance for Dissly’s health. 1-year 2 mil each.
10 – Britt, Iupati, Ansah, Prosise, Taylor… All gone.
“Moore and Brown are disappointing”
What a strange couple of guys they have been.
Brown – PC lamented they should have used him more last year. A really nice offseason signal of what the Hawks think of him (or maybe a flag to GMs to attempt to drive up his trade price?). This year? Barely registered any impact.
Moore – One of the more hot & cold players of 2018. Started great, then disappeared. Maybe this season is a mirror image? Going to finish with a flourish? Also, any time a player has a fracture, you have to wonder how much it effects them. Even if they’re active and playing, it’s hard to say.
Both guys should be professionally embarrassed / angry that the Hawks felt they had enough snaps available to put a claim in for Gordon, who obviously won’t be playing ST. They both have enough skill to make the Hawks think they don’t have room for him.
Pure speculation, but there seems to be a number of disappointing players that lack that ‘pissed off for greatness’ / ‘always compete’ vibe: Penny, Prosise, Moore, Jennings, Ferguson, Thompson, Hill, etc. Will not be surprised if most/all are off roster, next year, out of league, soon after.
Compare/contrast: draftees Amadi, Blair, Barton, trade acquisition Diggs, waiver claim Gordon (backstory/reclamation).
Culture creation continues…
When it comes to WR ‘s count their targets.
I don’t think that there are going to be many more ‘mega deals’ for RB. Here are the top 5 RB’s by salary
David Johnson: looks like the 3rd best RB on the team and is untradeable due to his salary
Gurley: Arthritic Knee, and sits at 428 yards rushing (about half of what Carson has)
Lev Bell: Same yardage as Gurley, was reported to be on the trade block at the deadline, but contract was issue
Elliott: Having his worst year after getting his payday (with 2 years left on his rookie deal)
Devonta Freeman: 371 yds rushing and just got hurt. 41 yds/game!
As much as I love Carson, RB is a young mans game and he’s given/taken a pounding so far. The thought process was right with Penny (1st rounder with a 5th year option) but he was just (likely) the wrong pick. I wouldn’t be surprised to see us go RB early in this draft. At this point it seems unlikely, but I would be thrilled to grab a RB with one of our first two picks. Najee Harris and CEH both looked amazing and Swift, Dobbins and Taylor are studs too. I’m sure there are others as well. This seems to be a great RB class to me if all declare. You’ve also got Etienne and Chubba.
Agree. I expect the Seahawks to let Carson play out his contract, test free agency, be content with next man up. Also expecting them to draft another RB for competition/depth.
Carson is a truly dominant runner, this guy behind an elite OL runs for 1600 yards, 15 TDs a season.
(per pro-football-reference)
1st downs: t-1st with 50 (14 more than CMC)
Yards before contact: 5th least (1.3 YBC average)
Yards after contact: 3rd (ahead of Cook, Chubb, CMC, Eliott)
YAC/att: 3rd
Broken tackles: 1st.
Yards: 3rd
Touches: 3rd behind only Cook and CMC
Yards for Scrimmage: 5th
Average yards before catch: 3rd (-1.6 yards before catch.
Average yards after catch: 9th (just ahead of Kamara, Mixon and CMC)
(DVOA)
EYds: 5th
DYAR: 10th
Success Rate: 3rd
He’s also leading the league with fumbles I imagine too.
Carson’s great. But he has to find a way to stop fumbling.
That’s the only thing keeping him from being a true elite pure runner, which is why I believe he has a choice to make:
Take now a mid level, team friendly deal and getting injury insurance, fair deal;
or:
Gamble on himself, have an offseason to clean up those fumbles and make a push for a mega deal in 2021 FA.
Besides Carson’s fumbling, there’s another thing that keeps him from being truly an elite running back. He lacks top end speed and will rarely break long runs. The 50+ yard run he had against TB is a prime example. This is a long run, but he was caught from behind by a linebacker.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Carson as a runner. But I wouldn’t expect very many break away long runs.
Yes not a home run threat but I don’t think that’s a requirement to being an elite running back (ball security does, sure thing)
It’s Tiki Barber all over again
Because 90% of the time RBs don’t matter. The running game does.
And I don’t want or need to hear Lynch’s name brought up. Said for years he was the last of a dying breed and would fall into that 10% anyways.
Given Chris’ production after contact and after the catch: the running game doesn’t matter, Chris Carson does. This guy is masking a very weak push by our OL.
Your missing the point. What round was Carson drafted in?
You can’t count on finding another Carson in the 7th round.
That said, my preferred plan would be to hold off on a Carson extension, draft someone this year and see where we’re at in 2021.
You can get Michael Bennett and Doug Baldwin as UDFAs, so, should you not pay your veteran DEs or WRs market value when you have a chance, just because you can get elite players after day 3?
All good points, Braz, but I disagree about Reed and Jefferson. If Reed doesn’t keep getting suspended, he is a solid force in the middle. Jefferson is decent. Unless something better comes along, I see Reed in the middle for a while.
1. Clowney… yup.
2. I don’t see how Griffin is anywhere close to our second best defensive player. Wagner, Clowney, Wright, McDougald, Diggs, Reed (if he’s back), then maybe Griffin. I’m not saying he isn’t performing well and that he isn’t important but that’s a different statement.
3. It’s tough. If running backs are a dime a dozen why have we been trying to replace Lynch for the last four years? I think Carson is worth fighting through the fumble battle.
4. I agree we should try to keep Ifedi at a reasonable contract. Continuity is critical on the line.
5. I disagree on Reed and Jefferson. I think Reed’s suspension could be our best friend. Consider the contracts for Lawrence and Jarrett. If Reed had 7 sacks right now he’d be looking at the same astronomical contract numbers. This way we might be able to keep a rare pass rushing DT for a price we can fit under the cap. All Jefferson has done is be our second best defensive lineman at a bargain basement price.
6. Kendricks is a Konundrum (literary license). He’s a bulldog, loves football, is fast, can rush the passer… if he could only learn to tackle.
7. Yes, I’d like to see them come to an agreement with Hollister.
8. I wouldn’t want to depend on Gordon for too long. I’m sure the Hawks will tap into the WR strength of in the 2020 draft, Malik Turner is really coming on, and we haven’t even seen Ursua yet.
9. I agree with you about Fant… keep him. Hunt, I’m not convinced yet. Willson… nice guy but nah.
10. Remember Kevin Mawae? We drafted him then sent him away after three years. All he did was go to the pro-bowl for nine years and have a hall of fame career. It takes time to get good at center. Britt is a leader, he’s tough, and he could still be really good.
Good reaction provoking comments Brazilian Hawk!
Would the Chiefs like to have their second round pick back for Frank Clark?
The dead cap hit is $39m. So unless they want to pay $39m for him to play in Seattle, it’s unlikely.
Clark is battling a neck injury. It is too soon to decide if this deal worked out for either team.
The reason the Philly game got flexed is because you can only have 5 primetime games in a season.
Look at week 17. SF @ Seattle. That’s probably gonna be not only for the division but a possible 1st round bye.
IMO they’re keeping the options open after the game these 2 teams just played Monday night
V12 entirely agree.
3 out of 5 weeks in a row is enough prime time for us
4 out of 5 probs too many
SEA clearly needs to keep winning.
In fairness San Fran vs GB is the game of the week and this allows them to have three quality games in each time slot that Sunday.
There is no Sunday or Monday Night Football during Week 17.
No Monday night. Always a Sunday game.
No Thursday game either
Remember that year like 3 or 4 years ago, that the Hawks only got like one prime time game, and the NFL actually said the Hawks were SO good in prime time that the networks felt it was dragging the ratings down? Loved that moment.
New topic:
#1 What would it take to get RS to the Sr Bowl or Combine or both?
#2 What would be the benefits?
Profootballfocus.com still has the Seahawks as the 12th strongest team in football. Behind the Eagles (10), Rams (7), Vikings (2), and SF (3).
We have a lot of weaknesses on defense and make lots of mistakes
Kendricks was really close to a QB strip on the throw that was intercepted by Diggs.
Still can’t believe they missed the blatant face mask on RW on the RW/Ifedi fumble play.
And Bobby lunging and missing an open-field tackle? What is going on??
I caught most of the CAR-GBP game, and it’s the same with Kuechly. He just doesn’t look the same. Still better than the average Mike. But just not the superstar he once was. It happens. FWIW I thought Wagz had the biggest impact on SEA’s defense vs SF than any other game this season, which I attribute to the improved play along the DL and the presence of Diggs in the backfield.
The absolute key to Bobby at his best is a really good DT. He had it with Sheldon Richardson. Last year Jarran Reed had 10.5 sacks. Put a beast in the middle and Bobby will dominate.
Reed is still here and I think he’s been playing at a high level at least the past two weeks. Woods and Poona look like they are playing well and eating up blocks just fine. I’m not buying Bobby’s regression from last year being completely or mostly due to worse DT play. He didn’t miss a freaking tackle all year last year until Dak Prescott converted that long third down in the playoffs. His level of play last year probably wasn’t sustainable because he was just so darn good.
Good news is he is still playing at a pro bowl level. Looks to me like he’s been getting beat in the run game trying to get around blocks (like he’s always done). I think he looks a hair slower (he had a knee procedure during training camp). Just not seeing him fly sideline to sideline like he has in past years. Still playing well and he isn’t the problem on defense. Still happy about his extension and I think he has a ton of good football left in him.
As they say, you keep the MLB clean (or any of the LBs) from blockers.. and he can take over a game. The DL worked well together and showed much of the promise we thought they might bring in the preseason.
Rob, or anyone for that matter, have you seen many games of Thaddeus Moss? He’s a moss, and that catch (even tho I would argue against it being a catch) was a good display of athleticism. How’s his blocking? Also is only a junior so, likely return for senior year.
Not seen too much as he was a transfer but liked what I did see against Alabama. Would be intrigued to see more. Not sure on the blocking.
I just thought this along these interesting facts.
Russell WIlson 23 TD passes. 2 Ints. 2737 Passing Yards, 68.5 % completion percentage.
KaMar Jackson 15 TD passes. 5 Ints. 2036 Passing Yards, 65% completion percentage.
Who is the M.V.P.
Where’s the rushing stats? I would take either as MVP and wouldn’t be mad
I’m 100% RW for MVP, but you’re not even going to bother mentioning LJ’s rushing yards and TDs?
Not really interesting stats because you’re not considering the entire picture:
Russell Wilson – 2 TDs. 256 rushing yards.
Lamar Jackson – 6 TDs. 702 rushing yards.
I agree that Russ should be MVP, but basing the argument entirely on passing yards is discrediting what Jackson is doing.
OK Russell Wilson has 2993 total yards. 25Tds running passing. Two ints. Lamarr Jack has 2738 total yards. 21 Tds running passing. 5 picks. Seattle beat Cincinnati by 1 pts. Pittsburg by 2pts. Rams by 1pt. Browns by 4pts. Bucs by 6pts. 49ers by 3pts. How many of those games would Seattle have won without Russell Wilson.
– Ed Dickson. WTH is going on with him? Can someone give us a straight answer?
– Rasheem Green. Why isn’t he better? Great athleticism, size, etc. Can someone give us a straight answer?
– C.J. Procise. Why is he on the team? He’s never active. Can someone give us a straight answer?
– Ziggy Ansah. Why is he on team? Can… (you know the rest)?
I’ll take a stab.
He’s been hurt and he was on the PUP. Now he’s eligible to come off but the Hawks aren’t activating him because they don’t absolutely have to at the moment. He will get activated and someone cut when the time is right.
He’s 22 and still developing. The Hawks are being patient with him.
Carson has a history of injuries and the Hawks have prioritized RB depth since they had that season of RW running on a bum knee as their top rusher. The Hawks liked what they saw in preseason and made an easy decision to commit one half of one percent of their total salary cap to keep him for 2019. They have enough roster depth to keep him and utilize him as a key weapon in the next few games if they choose.
They needed experienced pass rushers and took a gamble on 5% of their salary cap, comp pick formula free. It’s not working out so far. At the moment they’re trying Shaquem at the spot but the results were uninspiring.
They’ve likely made a calculated decision that Ziggy won’t get a full complement of snaps going forward, but are taking a chance that he might practice & play his way back into shape. The chance he can turn it around and make a handful of key plays down the stretch and in the playoffs appears greater than the chance that whoever else is out there on the street would do better.
In summary: The Hawks are 8-2 with wins against all three division opponents and a 5-0 road record. They can afford to be patient with all 4 of these guys right now.
This is the last week to “sh… or git” with Dickson. They must activate him or place him on IR. With TE Luke Willson possibly being out multiple weeks, due to injury, it would be a timely addition. Everything about this season has been…. timely. From guys getting injured to guys coming off of IR (etc). Heck, all the trades have pretty much worked out.
I suspect many people said WTH we keep Joey Hunt on the team. Well, he is pretty darn good.
(I didn’t necessarily want to get arid of him, but thought drafting a center, for competition, might be wise last draft)
Condotta said he thinks the Hawks get an “extra” week to decide on Dickson because of the bye week.
Timely indeed.
Rob,
What do you think about the Hawks bringing in Malik Jefferson for a look if he passes through waivers?
Might offer some pass rush. They brought in Jachai Polite for a look back in September. Pete loves his SPARQ Athletes and reclamation projects. Saw one of his knocks was that Teams question his love of football, not good, but that should be evident pretty fast into his tryout.
Just a thought.
He is a great athlete but he’s very much a linebacker. I think we’re well stock in that position currently.
I’d like to hand out three “thank you” notes. New England, Houston, and Detroit thank you for the nice gifts when we needed them most! I’m sure Jacob, Josh, Jadeveon, Quandre, and Ansah will join in the celebration. I included Ansah because I’m taking a page from PC when I suggest that Ansah’s injury will heal and he will make a critical sack in the Super Bowl!
The Seahawks were playing for the 1972 Dolphins. That’s always the most important variable of every season.
Well done. In fact a masterpiece. I always like to get that out of the way before Thanksgiving.
Cornerback is the sucker position. Always keep that in mind regarding the first round of the draft. Conventional wisdom somehow prefers to ignore what a disastrous position that is, in terms of return on investment. Whatever criteria are being to project, they are flat wrong. I posted this here and elsewhere previously. Now you can add Conley and Hargreaves to the list.
Tua still clearly above Joe Burrow. Unfortunately as a Dolphins fan now we may be playing ourselves out of Tua range, and needing other teams to stupidly devalue Tua in favor of Burrow or someone else. I doubt it will happen. I don’t know how anyone can take a 79% completion percentage at face value, especially when it follows a mere 58% one season earlier. That is not full on the player. There is no prior example or anything resembling an example like this. Besides, Tua’s YPA at 70% completions is still above Burrow at 79%. And there is nothing to adjust or doubt regarding Tua. He has phenomenal consistency in all the key categories. His completion percentage, YPA, TD/INT ratio and passer rating are all within pinky range of where they were in 2018.
Early first round I always want the guy who has been rated there the longest. Everyone else is more than welcome to the latest flavor. Lotsa luck.
Again, mega thanks for unleashing the cork.
I don’t think Tua is the best qb in the class. I wouldn’t be surprised to see around 2-3 qbs drafted before him. I think Joe Burrow will be the first an taken by the bengals, followed by Justin Herbert, Jordan Love and then Tua.
Tua has a lot of flaws to his game. His size, throwing motion, limited arm strength and a frame that seems built to its limit. He is a better prospect than Fromm but I think Herbert and Burrow are superior.
And Tua’s completion percentage is nothing to do with the O-line he plays behind or the collection of top draft picks at receiver?
There’s more to an analysis than mere completion percentage. If you prefer Tua, that’s fine. But don’t act like anyone who disagrees doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
“Tua still clearly above Joe Burrow”
You are literally the only person on earth, that doesn’t have the “A” planted on their forehead or chest, that still believes this.
I feel like I hear this sentiment about every position, every time a top draft pick goes bust. It seems like a really convenient crutch to fall back on, instead of just acknowledging that the entire draft is not an exact science, and the top picks aren’t immune to washing out, no matter what position they play.
Burrow reminds me exactly of Tim Tebow. He has the size, plays in the right scheme, even has the intangibles, but his wide receivers make him look awesome as he passes to them in the open field, he isn’t gonna look as awesome in the NFL. Nost of his passes i watch are hitting reveivers in a way where if they dont make a play on the ball ot will go incomplete, not exactly hitting people in stride.
I would also argue Tua is considerably better and Burrows is really just a hot commodity, every QB who beats bama is going to be lauded as the #1 over all choice the same way people are using Lamar’s defense beating the seahawks as a point for him in the MVP race. The truth is, this is the worst alabama team since the CFB playoff started and Tua is propping them up, i think the reverse is true of Burrow
WTH !!! ????
Can you please elaborate? After reading your comment I watched the reel of Burrow’s throws vs Alabama and I can’t find any that fit that description. Maybe I’m missing something. The Moss toe-tapper ? Edwards-Helare’s catch in the flat delivered while Burrows was taking a shot? Even those, Burrows delivered them where only the receiver could make the play, and nobody would have faulted him if they’d been incomplete.
I’m just not seeing what you are.
Burrows didn’t emerge from nowhere and stun the country with one game. When you consistently beat top teams both at home and on the road, it’s time to stop chalking it up to being a flavor of the month.
Not sure if you follow the blog but Rob has been touting Burrows as a top pick long before the Alabama game. If other in the media just now noticed and are sounding the alarm that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re bandwagoning.
Even if that’s true that’s grading on an awfully steep curve. They’re still loaded with NFL-caliber talent. Rob had something like 2 or 3 Alabama defenders going in the first round in his last mock. And Burrows shredded them.
Sorry but I highly highly doubt a Dolphins team of any year crossed the seahawk’s minds all game.
He’s just making a reference to them beating the only remaining undefeated team.
I would love for Seattle to draft a RB in 2019, but how about them going after a FB type of player.
One guy mentioned in some articles is A.J. Dillon, FB/RB, Boston College (6’0 / 245). If Seattle could get back to the I formation or 2 back sets of some of the smash mouth football of yesteryear, that could help the offense. He has been productive for 3 years in college, so that would not be a concern. He has been limited in the pass game, but you really are bringing in the guy to light people up blocking and / or tough short yardage rushes.
Penny’s best college tape came from following a fullback or pulling guard
Ifedi has put together 4 or 5 good games after a rough start to the season iirc, and that is after a rough 3 years and some are wanting him re-signed for $10M+?
Even if he does finish the season strong, it’s a little concerning that he’s only starting to play good in a contract year after all these seasons….
I say move on and collect the comp pick.
This isn’t a fair reflection of the situation.
Ifedi had a strong season last year. I don’t care what anyone says — he was NOT a liability as a blocker and he contributed as much as anyone to the improved O-line. That has simply continued this year. He doesn’t get beat badly. He’s not perfect, he’s not Lane Johnson. But he’s a perfectly useful starting right tackle.
I don’t think people realise the state of O-line play across the entire league. Neither do people understand how mind-bendingly difficult it is to acquire quality offensive linemen — either in the draft or free agency. The NFL has a MASSIVE problem with offensive linemen. All this hand-wringing about Ifedi is astonishing and just further adds to my feeling that Seahawks fans aren’t happy unless they have a coach or a player to rag on constantly.
Take the Browns game for example. Fluker botches a stunt and gives up a sack but because Ifedi’s in the frame Twitter explodes with criticism. Because Ifedi isn’t liked and Fluker is (for whatever reason). It’s crazy to me.
Ifedi started playing well long before his contract year. This isn’t a contract year situation at all. Everyone saying move on — be careful what you wish for. This team has had plenty of liabilities playing tackle over the years because they tried to scrimp and save or ‘go young’. It was a disaster.
I think a huge part of it may simply be timing and visibility. Ifedi is on the edge, so is very easy to see get beat. He also seems to make an error at the worst possible time, negating a huge play or TD. This REALLY ups the visibility on him and seems to draw fans ire more than any other OL.
Overall he can have a tremendous game and allow no pressures or sacks, but if he held on the one 40 yd TD pass, thats all fans will remember.
Agree. OL play is constantly subject to unfair scrutiny, as negative plays are what is the most immediately visible. It takes an eye test and some digging.
But here’s an easy stat. SF game: Nick Bosa and Dee Ford had 1 QB hit and no sacks Monday. Niner fans who were licking their chops in anticipation of the tackle/edge matchup in this game got stuffed.
This is hardly proving anything.
They took five sacks, none of them due to scrambles. Three of them over the Ifedi/Carson side, one where Hunt was turtoised and another blond side. They are now #23 in sacks allowed, and even worse in QB hits allowed.
The offense was nearly stalled over three quarters, it was the D making a TD and forcing a turnover making us sit pretty in the redzone.
Why didn’t they pick up Ifedi’s 5th year option do you think? It’s a baffling decision to be honest especially since they are flowing in cap space & the option is not guaranteed. It seemed like a bone headed move to me at the time. Now they need to compete with the market.
I think Ifedi’s best years are ahead of him. He should be retained.
I think they probably wanted the fire that a contract year produces and wanted some flexibility.
I was the first and foremost guy wanting Ifedi to make it this season.
But what we are looking upon is a below average player, who has a rotten game for every good game. Good games mean a little over 70 pass blockimg efficiency. 70 is exactly average. Yes, his last five games were better than his first 5, butmhe played with constant double coverage by a TE or RB, so maybe we have just achemed around him.
Re Wilsons scrambles… all five sacks came while he was not scrambling. The double fumble came over Ifedis side, he was late to the party, missing his assignment despite having Carson next to him, and then he ran two yards to our own emdzone instead of falliing to the turf.
Now, I don’t propose to flatout forget resigning him. If the price is right, they should retain him. But FA having only weak players works in his favour, so that might not happen. So, they should and would be prepared to move on. Next up, this is the Seahawks team identity.
That Fluker is mediocre, too… or that Brown was overran by Vita Vea in what could have been a season-ender for RW…. we have grown accustomed to even worse play, that we have begun to accept lousy play. Same with DL. What should we expect from an OL, that is second in the league in experience? Or from a DL, that is hardly an assortment of no-names? The occasional good game will not make those units click. Continued high investment will. It’s working for the Niners, Saints and elsewhere.
I’m starting to get the feeling people are obsessed with Ifedi.
It’s bizarre how much people want to talk about (and hammer) him.
Seahawks fans aren’t happy unless they’ve got someone to slag off. Even after a great win.
I don’t live and breathe football like a lot of you guys do, but am confused how so many here are saying he’s worth over $10 million a season!
I notice him (like so many others on the OL) get burned a lot over the past couple of seasons. Stats and PFF grades have helped me feel more confident about this.
So my question is, what am I not seeing here? Is it just that people are willing to overpay because of the lack of proven RT’s out there? If that’s the case, is Ifedi really that much better than Jones/Fant/high draft pick to surrender all that cap room for?
Thank in advance.
You notice him get burned a lot? No offense but that to me seems like an assumption rather than reality. He doesn’t get beat much at all.
People are only talking about $10m because of the market for starting tackles. None of us really know his value.
I’m a bit late but thanks for the response. I was going off the stat “Germain Ifedi allowed 29 total pressures (6 sacks, 23 hurries) on 466 pass-blocking snaps last season, which ties him for 56th in pass-blocking efficiency out of 83 qualifying offensive tackles”
But I’m sure there is more to it since you and so many others seem to like him at RT which brings me back to my original question!
$10+ mil would be a bargain…
I’m a little reluctant to pay Ifedi. I worry that he will be one of those players who plays below his contract.
Wait, are you really arguing that the reason Ifedi is playing well is because he’s in a contract year and not because he’s a 4th year pro who’s finally learned how to block?
If you’re correct, and Ifedi is only playing well because he wants to maximize his next contract, wouldn’t he have just played this well every year? Wouldn’t that maximize his second contract more than just playing well in a contract year?
Really?
I don’t understand the logic of drafting a player, coaching him up over several seasons to the point where he’s pretty good, then letting him walk so another team can reap the benefits of his talent, only to draft a replacement, who in all likelihood also will require multiple seasons to get to the same level.
Assuming he doesn’t bust the cap space, why wouldn’t you want to retain Ifedi?
It’s just a feeling I’ve got about Ifedi after watching him these years. Too often he just didn’t seem committed to improving his mistakes, penalties, foot work, etc… There were long stretches where he didn;t show this commitment. Now, what happens if he gets a big contract? Just a feeling I’ve got about him. I could be wrong.
PS> PC/JS didn’t extend this guy going into the last year of his contract. So it’s not like I’m alone in these feelings.
Well let’s be fair —- at what point during the Wilson/Clark/Wagner contract talks were they going to fit in an extension for Germain Ifedi?
JMO…but I don’t think they trusted locking this guy up. I’m not privy to their inner sanctum discussions, but that’s where I’d put my money.
My guess is they have a number they’d possibly be willing to resign him for, but they’d let him walk if he gets more than that.
That’s mere speculation though. I don’t buy into it. The Seahawks were never in a million years going to extend the contract of Germain Ifedi when they had Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner, Frank Clark and Jarran Reed within 12 months of being out of contract. It’s a total non-starter. They didn’t have the time or the ability to make that move. Not with so many hugely expensive and much more important players to resolve.
It made total sense to do what they did. And we’ll see what happens next.
I’m okay with moving on from him unless we get a very good deal from our end. I’m just not a big Ifedi fan, although he has played better as this season has progressed. I’ll give him that.
PS> I’ll take that Georgia RT you’ve been writing about.
Isaiah Wilson is awesome but I think he’ll go top-20.
A lot of people aren’t Ifedi fans. I’ll just keep saying — be careful what you wish for. You’d even less of a fan of an awful lot of other RT’s in the league.
fwiw..CBS Sports has a mock draft out and they have the Hawks taking T Biadasz (Wisc center) as the Hawks first pick (#28 overall). I like the idea..6’3′” 320 pound athletic center/guard..would give the Hawks a lot of flexibility around the J Britt situation.
I think the Hawks can find a good #3 receiver in rounds 2 or 3..and then use our cap room to shore up the DL; Clowney, Reid and a D Fowler type.
That or trade all our picks (or as many as it takes) to get to #2 to pick Chase Young.. ;<)
I’m not against the pick if they feel the need to move on from Britt (although personally I’d rather go after Alex Mack or just keep Britt). But the CBS mock drafts are…. dreadful and weird.
I was always under the impression that Pocic’s best position was center, yet no one talks about him as a potential Britt replacement.
Seems like we should give him a shot. He might thrive there, just as Britt did, after changing positions.
Maybe so.
Yeah, but I can’t remember Pete mentioning Pocic getting reps at center. I could be wrong on this.
Hunt has been doing a decent job so far but occasionally he just gets so dominated that it worries me.
Pocic has been labeled a zone-blocker and not as well suited to Solari’s gap blocking scheme though I thought he played okay in backup work before IR. I too thought he was drafted as a C/G. Now they’re giving Haynes reps at Center. I don’t think Solari sees him as a Center solution as much as Cable did.
Biadasz is big, athletic and strong, but he plays with poor balance. He might be a top center in a few years, but I don’t see it right now.
I prefer Harris
+1
There is no world, where Biadasz should go before R3.
What do you guys think of Julian Okwara? He seems pretty interesting to me as far as size and get-off. Would he be in the 1st or 2nd round consideration?
I wasn’t blown away by him at all. Has had too many quiet games, including against Georgia’s two NFL tackles.
IF Carson continues his fumbling issues do you guys think we should consider one of these stud RB’s in the first or second?
I’m not sure I can remember a draft where there are so many good sized(Seahawk sized) and high pick RB’s than the 2020 draft.
Here are the top RB’s in the draft and their size’s:
D’Andre Swift – 5-9″ 215
Jonathan Taylor – 5-11″ 219
J.K. Dobbins – 5-10″ 217
Cam Akers – 5-11″ 212
Zack Moss – 5-10″ 222
Kylin Hill – 5-11″ 215
Lamical Perine – 5-11″ 218
Najee Harris – 6-2″ 230
Ke’Shawn Vaughn – 5-10″ 215
Most of these RB’s are projected to go in the first 3 rounds.
I think Harris is smaller than that, not sure he truly is 230.
It’s a good group but they just have greater needs.
I agree at the moment they have greater needs. I am simply coming from the point of view that PC will not tolerate fumbles like this from Carson on a regular basis. I am simply asking if Pete would be worried enough about the turnovers if Carson keeps fumbling that they might consider one of these RB’s in the first 3 rounds. Maybe they just sign a FA but it’s not totally off-hand to consider this position considering how important running the ball is to the team…as well as turnovers.
They just spent a 1st on Penny. Don’t see it happening again until they are done with Penny for good. At earliest, maybe next off season, probably not for another couple years before they consider it.
That’s not to say a later round pick isnt an option though.
So if Carson keeps fumbling and let’s say he fumbles another 5 or 6 times this year you’re saying that put Penny in because we are perfectly comfortable with him taking the load?
Im saying its far too early to consider another 1st or 2nd round RB, with the current more glaring needs being what they are, and the strengths of the draft classes being what they are.
They drafted Penny at the top of one of the strongest RB classes in recent years, after 2 years of having abysmal running game and publicly declaring the run game the off season priority.
Run game, even with the the current fumbling trend, is far from a problem right now and I just have a hard time seeing another high draft pick used (this year) on what amounts to depth insurance. Take a late round flyer on a guy with some crazy measurables? Hell yes, go for it. Grab another Carson type in rounds 5-7. but tap into the strengths of the draft, and fill more immediate needs early on.
Hmm..so you don’t think the RB position is one of the strengths of the draft. Ok.
I started the thread saying IF Carson keeps fumbling which by the way is twice as many fumbles than the next(Chubb) legit RB in the league. Yes our immediate needs right now are different, but I am simply saying IF this keeps happening should we not at least look into this RB class which I believe is one of the strengths of the draft? I am one of Carson’s biggest fans and was not on board with getting Penny in the first. I was actually hoping to get Kerryon Johnson in the late 2nd. But Rob was right about us fearing that Carson might not keep healthy and we need a legit 1st round backup just in case.
After watching Carson fumble or almost fumble the rock time and time again this year I think it’s a legit concern to think that every team we are going to face from here on out will be determined to punch the ball out and focus on causing Carson to fumble with more focus that the average RB that they might face on any given week.
Maybe I will just hold my tongue on this issue until/unless it is needed. I certainly hope Carson puts it together because if he doesn’t we have a HUGE problem on our hands.
If Jonathan Taylor is sitting there after a trade down I’d be more than happy to draft a RB. We wouldn’t even be considering this if we drafted Chubb like SDB wanted. If only John Schneider read the blog haha.
I think we have to keep going after DL early. Or OL if Fant/Ifedi leave and aren’t replaced in free agency (yuck). I think a badass ball hawking physical corner like Trevon Diggs would provide the biggest upgrade to the team but the hawks haven’t drafted a corner with their first pick before (and he will get drafted before we pick). Never hurts to have another weapon for RW and I really like Shenault from Colorado if he lasts due to the injuries. Love his character and gritty playmaking ability if he can get back to last years form.
I think we need to prioritize Clowney and J Reed. Last year wasn’t some fluke year for Reed. He might not get 10 sacks a year but he has been really consistently good and has only improved over the years. One of the true Dogs left on this defense.
In short: yes.
More of a boom or bust runner than I’d like but can’t demand consistency from a RB that doesn’t have consistent carries (for good reason, we have ‘big, focal point’ type of back).
I was literally just thinking about the prospect of drafting Dobbins with an early pick, just because I think he’s a fantastic player, who would work really well opposite Carson and I’m not sure this draft lines up very well with our needs.
Another ‘surprising’ pick they could make would be Dylan Moses, if his injury causes him to drop. Wright and Kendricks could be off the team in a year and Linebacker has not been the strength we expected it to be.
In general fumbling issues are correctable with coaching and focus from the player on securing the ball properly. Tiki Barber went from being a 9 fumble/year guy for most of his career down to 1 and 3 in his last two seasons. Adrian Peterson went from 9 and 7 in back-to-back years to just 1 each of the next two (then he went back up to 4/5/7 over the following years, probably because he stopped working at it). Just teach him how to hold the ball properly (and that unless it’s 4th-and-short and he’s fighting for a 1st down, he should probably just go down once he’s wrapped up).
I’d be surprised if they don’t draft a RB next year. But I’d also be surprised if they draft one before R3.
There are a plethora of high quality offensive skill position prospects in this draft. Daniel Jeremiah said this year’s WR class is the best he’s seen in 16 years of scouting. There are a bunch of quality RBs too. Some really good prospects are going to fall into the mid rounds.
I could see us taking a RB with one of the late R2 picks. It’s a good crop this year and, depending on when the run on that position starts, there could still be some really good ones at that spot.
Could happen, but I’d be surprised.
I really like the tenacity and size of A.J. Dillon as well. Even though he is 6-0″ 245lbs he has some Marshawn Lynch qualities about him. Put him in the Mike-Rob FB spot and we might have something there. I do also think he can take carries on his own too. Maybe a 4th round pick.
To me, it’s Akers, Dillon or Vaughn. With Vaughn being my favroite.
They should be available R4-6, because of strong WR and OL classes, many DL needy teams and a comparably deep class.
Good news:
Pretty cool she lent her plane to Lock. Sounds like we have another good owner.
Next year’s TE class looks to be overflowing with riches.
I bring this up because Penn St TE Pat Friermuth is a SO, but was in HS for 5 years instead of 4. Might be eligible for this years draft. If he does? He’s TE1 hands down.
By the way, what do we have in Travis Homer? If we’re not talking about taking a RB in the first three rounds, didn’t we already spend a later pick on a RB last year? Just saying.
I think Homer was more of a special teams/pray-we-never-have-to-use-him-back as a starter.
I didn’t really mean to start a “we must get a RB in the first 2 rounds issue”. But I do believe the RB position to be a positional strength in this draft. I mean what do you guys think is a strong draft position this draft in the first two rounds anyway? I would say probably WR, CB, OL & RB. To be honest I’m not in agreement with this QB class being top notch.
Even so we aren’t getting a QB or CB in the first 2 rounds…correct? D-Line is not strong this year which is not ideal for our needs obviously…as well as TE.
So what’s left with the strong positional draft this year and that fits our needs? It would seem we should get the best O-lineman we can as well as seriously looking at the WR/RB position…which I believe we will.
I’ll take BPA at OL, DL, WR, or CB in the first two rounds. I’m up in the air about RB in the first three rounds. I’m a little shell-shocked by Cristine Michael and Penny. LOL I was really hoping Penny was going to be stud. But that certainly doesn’t seem like it’s happening. I wonder what any team would give us for him in the way of draft capital? That’s kind of the tell on Penny now.
I think if we are honest we would admit that Penny was an absolute SHOCK in the first round. Personally I thought he would be an early 3rd round pick.
Dang, hope he really is getting the help he needs.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28074874/ex-seahawk-malik-mcdowell-sentenced-11-months-jail
Another talented problem child apparently wears out his welcome…
Does this mean Callaway is on waivers?
It does
But may also be suspended:
Boy, what a waste of a pick (from a purely football point of view). They really read this guy wrong, got blinded by his potential. I hope they don’t use top picks anymore on questionable characters. It’s okay to take flyers on such guys as late picks, guys cut loose on the cheap, etc.., but not that high.
Anyway, hope he gets his shyt together, but I don’t see the NFL in his future.
This is always the dilemma facing GM’s and decision makers. He was arguably the best receiver in that draft or at the very least the most natural receiver. But his character flags were unreal. If you take the chance and it works you get a superstar. If he flames out within 18 months you look stupid.
Sorry…I was speaking about Malik McDowell. 🙂
My apologies — thought it was Calloway.
Sad. Let’s just hope Josh Gordon has grown up enough to contribute this year. For those of you who don’t know we have some of the weed in the world is Seattle so…..I guess we will see.
“The guy they passed on TJ Watt amd Ryan Ramczyk for.”
OL is really interesting during the off-season when I think about it. Our starting five could be really different than our projected starting five at the beginning of this season. I almost don’t know how to think about it. There are players on the roster who I just don’t know about their talent/skill level. There are other players who I have no idea if they will be retained, Fluker, Ifedi, Iupati, Britt. And there are only a couple of players I’ve seen so far in the college ranks that excite me as a first round pick.
It will be interesting to watch in the off-season and training camp next year.
Is Pocic our center next year?
.
… and is Joey our backup again?
.
Who knows… it’s too early to say.
Here’s how I currently see our offensive line at the start of next season…
LT–Duane Brown
LG–???
C–???
RG–???
RT–???
That makes it seem worse than it is though — because they have options at every position, including contracted players.
Haynes, Britt, Jones, Fluker and Pocic are all signed. Ifedi, Fant and Hunt are free agents, as is Iupati. I’d be willing to guarantee at least one of Ifedi or Fant will be retained.
There are about two really good offensive lines in the league and everyone else gets by or struggles. The Seahawks don’t have an elite line but when I read the names above I don’t think it’s a crisis either.
How do you see Jones, Haynes, Pocic, and Fant as potential starters for the Hawks in the future? I have no idea. Really don’t.
I don’t know — but they’re in the system and if they re-sign Ifedi, keep Fluker and Britt — then it might only be one of Jones (who’s impressed) or Haynes who starts. And they could always sign a one-year veteran like they’ve done with Iupati to add some experience there. So I think it’s a pretty comfortable position to be in. They have options.
I still think OL is a high probability with our first pick.
It’s far too early to suggest that. All they have to do is re-sign Ifedi or Fant or another veteran and it’s an extremely low probability. You can’t say it’s a high probability.
Keeping Ifedi, Britt, Iupati & Fluker isn’t likely though. Chances are because we need to sign Clowney plus 1 or 2 FA D-lineman we won’t be able to sign Ifedi and the rest to team friendly deals. Plus if we let Britt go we save enough to get our D-line intact. Also I believe the OL is one of the strengths of the draft….well maybe a small strength but none the less.
If the blog is absolutely convinced that we won’t take a CB or RB in the first two rounds and the blog thinks that we really can’t improve our DL to the point of making a playoff making difference by next year through the draft than what’s left?
WR, RB & OL….and not in that order in next year’s draft. I think it’s pretty clear we need address our DL through free agency right? We know QB’s, DB’s, LB’s and probably Edge rushers won’t be available where we are picking in the first 3 rounds that will make any real impact for next year.
So what positions does this leave for us to make a SB run next year as far as the draft is concerned? I say again WR. RB & OL with our first 3 picks. The only caveats I see is possibly DT IF Reed isn’t signed AND we find a DT gem in the 1st or 2nd round.
Britt and Fluker are contracted. Ifedi has started for four years and they might retain him. I never suggested they would keep Iupati but he’s on a cheap one-year deal and it’s possible they bring him back, sign someone similar or promote Haynes/Pocic.
‘This blog’ is not ‘absolutely convinced’ about anything. All we do on here is make educated judgements based on what we know about the team. For example — they haven’t drafted a cornerback higher than the back end of round three in a decade of PCJS. So there’s very little point projecting a CB early. They have a system and an approach to the position that is clear. Considering they spent a first round pick on Penny and really like Carson, the odds are stacked against ANOTHER first round investment at running back. That only changes if the situation changes — such as Penny being dealt.
I think it is ‘likely’ they will address the pass rush in FA because the draft options appear weak. I also think there’s a reasonable chance they will spend a high pick on a WR given the excellent options there. They also need a solution at tight end because we can clearly see the situation with that position in the off-season.
But it’s November 14th — loads of things can change. It’s far too early for you or me or anyone to say what they will do. We can’t say it’s highly probable they take an OL with their first pick until we know what happens with their starters and/or how they feel about the incumbent contracted players. Plus they have very clearly gone towards signing veterans to fill holes.
Rob: Do you think it is too early to get a read on L.J. Collier. I know part of the problem is that he got injured during training camp. And that set him back. There was talk that Collier is too small for DT and too slow for DE. Don’t know what to make of L.J. Collier. Your opinion would be appreciated.
There is a good interview with Jim Nagy on hawkblogger in which he evaluates Collier. He says that he is a Michael Bennet profile. It took Bennet a while to get going too
Yes it is too early. Frank Clark was anonymous as a rookie. We as fans demand instant gratification from high picks but it’s vitally important to be patient, particularly with players who have suffered somewhat serious injuries. Let’s see how he does in year two.
Clark did still get a few sack in his rookie year didn’t he?
Frank was/is a freak athlete. He got a couple sacks his rookies year after having a stellar preseason. LJ got hurt in preseason and has been behind ever since. Granted they are two completely different athletes with different skill sets. LJ is going to have to figure out what type of player he is and play to his strengths.
Three I think. But he actually played.
Rob doesn’t it worry you that despite the Hawks DL struggles Collier is not getting any snaps or even active ? It seems really rare for a 1st round DL prospect to not even be active.
No it doesn’t worry me. He’s a rookie who started the year hurt.
Rob: I honestly am not trying to put a fork in the blog in any way. I love the blog and think it really is the best Seahawk info anywhere…period. I can’t wait to see each and every article as well as all the 12’s comments.
If I am out of line on some issues and I probably am then please let me know. My apologies.
Don’t worry about it — robust debate is what this place is about. Never feel like you have to apologise.
Would love Kaepernick as the backup to Russell. Glad the Seahawks are taking a look.
Same.
To my knowledge the only thing that’s held back that deal is Kaep wanting starter money and the Seahawks knowing he deserves it
Big time agree to disagree on that one. Yikes.
With Pete Carroll or? He Just said we’ll be attending his workout because he’s a starter in this league.
Carroll doing Kaep a huge solid. I have so much respect for him as a player’s coach and human being.
+12 just started watching Russ’ podcast and he’s such an extension of Pete it’s wildly hilarious
That’s an extreme hard pass for me. He’s just another AB headcase with too much drama following him around. If he’s going to use the team as a platform to protest again he can sit his happy ass unemployed. Still wouldn’t want to the team to touch the guy even if wasn’t going to protest. He can run and that’s about it.
He had a 122 passer rating in his last game
There’s more than football at stake here.
If Kap was our starter and we lost every game I’d still be proud of the Seahawk franchise. The man sacrificed tremendously and acted with honor and humility simply to stand for what America is supposed to be about. If winning football games is truly more important then what’s the point of being American?
I totally agree with Dale. I would be very proud if the Seahawks take Kap as a back up. By the way, this could be also a value move. If Kap can show out as a back up, he could be traded.
The last thing any team wants is a high profile backup QB.
That should be the most nondescript player on the roster. The guy who does the overtime coin toss.
I’ve never really taken a view on the whole Kaepernick situation but to be perfectly honest I’ve not got much interest in that being a huge part of Seattle’s 2020 season.
As I noted earlier, there’s more than football at stake here Rob.
Meh.
I’m a Seahawks fan. I’m not interested in a season-long political statement.
Just play football and try and win a Super Bowl please.
OMG. Garrett needs to be ejected and immediately suspended for the rest of the season.
Totally unacceptable.
What the hell did we just watch?!?
Disgraceful. Shameful. Unacceptable.
And coming on the heels of an instant classic on MNF in SF that showed clean, tough play by two of the best teams around.
Two steps forward, one step back. What a black eye.
In case anyone missed it:
https://twitter.com/chawktalkereric/status/1195203905417670656?s=21
Love the twitter handle.
Thanks V12
smh
So disappointing too. Always liked Garrett. Wonder what he has to say for himself.
He is going to be lighter in the wallet and probably get between 2-4 game suspension.
I’ll give Baker Mayfield credit. He took the interview with Erin Andrews minutes after it happened and didn’t defend Garrett.
Baker Mayfield: Who him? I hardly even know him
Scratch “season”, insert “his career”
The NFL has to make a point here. The end of season crap didn’t work. They tried it with Burfict, and he didn’t learn anything. Now he’s out of the league.
You’re right and you got your wish. The amazing thing is the fans who are defending him. WTF?
The Browns, such a fricking joke.
Instead of coming off a huge victory, looking poised, now will be without 1 or 2 players due to suspension at a critical time in the season. Undisciplined. Unfocused when they need to be…. HC needs to go.
On a lighter note, I get a real kick how ignorant of procedure and rules Kitchens is. Screaming at the refs to let the clock run out after Pitt kneeled on 4th down.
My favorite was James Harrison logging on to Al Gore’s internet saying there needed to arrests made and calling for jail time.
James my man. We gonna need you to sit this one out.
I never expected, watching Mason Rudolph, that someone would crack him with his own helmet. But such is life *puffs cigarette*
Hey rob… Washington fan here.
Respectfully I will say I think you’re overrating both Hunter Bryant and Nick Harris.
Harris is a good pac 12 offensive linemen. He’s smart and very athletic, and a great team mate. The problem is he doesn’t have the size or strength to hold up in the NFL. He’ll routinely get blown up NFL nose guards for his first couple of seasons. If I drafted him I would draft him around round six or seven and give him a redshirt year or two that he needs, and think of him as more of a project.
As far as Bryant… he’s talented. But number one he drops WAYY to many passes for a guy who calls himself “black beast”. He’s undersized for a pro tight end and really not much of a blocker. He’s like a receiver who’s way too jacked but with terrible hands.
The other knock I have against him is he’s too ripped… which causes him to be more injury prone. (See Bo Scarborough). So you have a weapon who’s liable to drop easy passes and miss several games a season. Yes he’ll have a beastly highlight tape showing off his speed, but if you watch the full games you’ll be less excited about the idea of him in the NFL.
Garrett Bradbury lacked size this year and was the #18 pick. I love Harris’ ability to control front-on, the ease at which he progresses to the second level, the ability to pull into space and execute blocks on the move. He never gets overpowered.
I think Bryant is really good with a lot of untapped potential.
It was fun seeing Hunt pull (esp. on screen) a few times.
I think Bryant and Harris are tow guys the Hawks have to be taking a close look at. Positions of need and two local guys that seem to fit.
Even when the browns win, they lose.
What an embarrassing move by Garrett. No excuse for that.
Would love to see him try something on Russ then have to face Fluker Brown and Iuapati… wouldn’t be pretty for little Myles. Would rather have Jadeveon than Myles any day of the week.
Hey, a useful new metric. And Dante Fowler at #2 in NFL for you, Rob. 👀
https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1195140184964075520
The Seahawks need edge speed… that looks good to me!
Waiting…
I really hope Fowler is the target this off season after they sign Clowney. That would be an incredible young duo to build around.
Rob I remember you thinking Fowler had a ton of talen coming out and he has now developed into an elite edge rusher it appears.
I’ve been meaning to bring to bring up A.J. Dillon dome 76. I think he is more of the type of back they need to select. Big and powerful, runs with purpose.
Trying to take my mind of the Garrett insanity…anybody else notice the difference of opinion between Aikman and Buck/the producers last night?
Before the game, they ran a quick package on the Minkah trade and his stats and effect on the Pittsburgh defense. Buck (I think it was him) commented on the logic of trading your first round pick immediately after your aging franchise QB went down, and pointed to how well Minkah was playing and called the trade “a steal” for Pittsburgh. I don’t recall Aikman agreeing or disagreeing. Maybe just a comment on how well Minkah was playing and his work ethic.
//4 Rudolph interceptions later
Aikman went on a bit of a rant about why in the world would the Steelers trade their first round pick, knowing their QB was hurt.
Controversial? No. A crazy thing to say? Also no.
But I do like that Aikman wasn’t ordered to follow the company line, which Fox was pretty clearly trying to direct attention to star players like Minkah to keep the viewership numbers up in a matchup of two teams who aren’t exactly setting the league on fire this season.
To Aikman’s point. The Steelers traded for a proven talent over the unknown. Something the NFL has been doing more of and I suspect will continue. Pittsburgh have him playing his natural position he can sink his teeth into. Miami had him playing 2 different positions.
The Steelers made the right move.
Pro Football Network
@PFN365
Myles Garrett has been suspended without pay indefinitely & at minimum, the remainder of the 2019 regular/post season.
The Browns and Steelers have both been fined $250,000 each.
Maurkice Pouncey suspended three games. Larry Ogunjobi one game. More discipline coming for others.
In that situation I get it, but dudes throwing punches at someone with a helmet on will never not be funny to me.
You talking about Pouncey? Yeah him hitting and kicking Garrett’s helmet seemed pretty futile.
Seahawks reclamation project 2021
I could see Stafford going on IR and Detrot signing Kaep.
I don’t think anyone will sign him.
This is about the NFL being seen to do something.
But signing him? Totally different.
+1 PR stunt
Devonta Smith is the best WR on that ‘Bama team. Doesn’t mean I’m anti Jerry Jeudy or don’t like him. I think he’s excellent. But I don’t see a top 5 pick. And he’s not OBJ. Where did that comp even come from?
I think they’re all good. I can see why some teams will really like Jeudy and I think he can be a really productive player. He’s not an X-factor physical demon though.
Ruggs is excellent — so quick, natural, smooth and the way he catches away from his body is superb.
Smith is so sudden, quick and dynamic. He creates easy separation.
They are all good. Even their 4th guy Jaylen Waddle would be a WR1 for most teams and should be a 1st rounder in 2021.
I just think Smith has the most complete skill set and will win on the outside more consistently at the next level. Whereas Jeudy is gonna be in the slot IMO.
Ruggs also has more toughness than the other 2. He’ll battle for those YAC.
Does anyone want to take the other side of Cleveland having a new head coach next year?
You know who would be great in Cleveland?? Jim Harbaugh..
Indeed. Ideal.
What an idea!
Rob..(or anybody who wishes to reply)..assuming Josh Gordon has a solid second half of the season and the Hawks resign him in the offseason..would that change your opinion that the Hawks should spend a high draft pick on a WR.
The only thing I think the Seahawks should do this off-season is improve the pass rush as a priority one way or another. That and re-sign Jadeveon Clowney. Everything else is a projection, a suggestion or an assessment.
I’ve been mocking a receiver to the Seahawks simply because it’s an area they ‘could’ consider, it’s a position that is strong within this class and we’ve consistently seen the Seahawks tap into the ‘strength’ of a draft in previous years.
To answer the question about Gordon — I don’t think retaining him would make much difference to any possible draft strategy. We’re talking about a player who has had numerous suspensions and personal problems. Imagine getting to June and then Gordon being unavailable for whatever reason. You’ve passed on a glorious collection of wide receivers. You might end up kicking yourself.
I suspect any deal for Gordon would be fairly minimal anyway, so I actually think he’d be a hedge rather than a player who eliminates a position from consideration.
I’ve been researching potential FA edge rushers for next year based on the fairly solid (as of now) assumption that FA is where we would look to address competition for the other DE spot opposite Clowney or at least to bring some speed to the edge on 3rd down situations.
While Fowler would be a great sign, I’m not convinced he’s going to be had for what we would be willing to pay. As young as he still is, he feels like a first wave kind of guy. I would not be surprised to see us look for a mid-level veteran signee in addition to us signing Clowney and Reed on the DL.
Here are a few possibilities:
Ogbah from the Chiefs – They have severe cap issues and Ogbah has decent productivity
Mercilus from the Texans – They should be able to sign, but wouldn’t it be funny to get both edge guys from the Texans?
Mayowa from the Raiders – Why not? He was here before
Golden from the Giants – Might be a reasonable deal.
Judon from the Ravents – Might get him on a budget coming off of his rookie deal, lots of QB hits though
Quinn from the Cowboys – Cowboys have to sign Prescott, Cooper, others to deals, 7.5 sacks already, lots of hits. Only making 8m. Could we get him for 2 years 20m?
What do you think?
I’ll keep saying though — Fowler lasted in FA last year. He didn’t go first wave and had to take a prove-it deal with LA.
And if they want to be serious about improving the pass rush, he’s a lot better than the options on the list. It’s basically a collection of ageing vets and players with a limited ceiling.
Agree to all your points, but…has Fowler proved it?
Will we sign Clowney to a mega deal? Hopefully. Also, sign Reed? I think this is the right call, but I would like to see how this season shakes out. But then also potentially sign Fowler to a mega deal? I estimate we have about 10-12m on a first year cap number next year for this type of signing…Would we sign Fowler to something around 15m APY as well?
I like Reed but I think it is much harder to find an edge rusher like Fowler. If the Hawks are going to spend on one of the two I would prefer Fowler.
I dont think Reed is going to have the market everyone expects to be honest.
I feel like we’ve been saying the exact opposite in previous years. Remember what it was like when early down passing plays were so easy to complete on even the LOB, because we had run stuffers with zero pass rushing capability in the game?
Who exactly have we had in the last 9 years who provided pass rush from the interior along with stoutness against the run? There was….Richardson? Not quite the pass rush we hoped for.
So actually, just Reed. In 9 years of PCJS, he’s the only guy we’ve had who can do both. We’ve had a ton of 3rd down (kick inside) type of dudes, but zero who could play this role outside of Reed on base downs.
How many edge rushers have we had? Brock, Clemons, Irvin, Avril, Clark, Clowney.
Quite a few more. You don’t let guys like Reed get away in FA unless there’s something wrong with their work ethic, etc.
Harder to find an edge rusher than a 10+ sack DT? I like Fowler but he isn’t exactly a game wrecker. Reed isn’t exactly Aaron Donald but I’d argue Interior pass rushers are more rare than edge rushers. Fowler has never had a 10+ sack season and he has had at least one big knee injury.
Reed came up in this system and is a leader on this defense and one of the few real dogs we have left. We know how he fits in the system and he’s gotten better every year of his career (too early to say If he’s regressed from last year IMO). Most importantly he hasn’t had the injury history that Fowler has. Not sure who would cost more, depends how they finish out the season probably. I’d much rather sign J Reed but would love to sign them both. Fowler is playing well this season. I think the hawks are more likely to reward their own in Reed if he plays well the rest of the season.
I really like Matt Judon as an option in free agency if Baltimore doesn’t reward him with a contract extension (I expect them to). He is a similarly explosive athlete to Fowler and only 27. Not quite as quick as Fowler but he’s disruptive and an ascending player IMO. Problem with these guys is they are going to get Trey Flowers money (18 M APY). If they pay Clowney and Reed like I want that’s already a bunch of money in the D line.
Fowler doesn’t need to be a ‘game-wrecker’. He just needs to produce at the level he has this year and offer the speed off the edge they currently lack.
There’s quite a significant difference in quickness between Judon and Fowler.
Think we could pay Fowler, Reed and clowney? That’s like 50 Mil on the D line a year.
Or would you prioritize a speed rusher like Fowler over and interior disruptor like Reed (assuming reed is the same player as last year). I don’t think Fowler will be available for 15 M APY but if he is I think that’s money well spent. I think closer to 18M. Making 14 this year on a prove it deal and it seems like he is proving it. Although I doubt he gets double teamed much with Donald next to him.
I don’t know. But they have a lot of cap space next year. And in 2013 who thought they’d be able to trade for and pay Harvin then bring in Bennett and Avril? Who expected Clowney here for a R3? The unexpected can happen.
They’re paying Ziggy Ansah $8m this year plus incentives. I’d happily pay $15m a year for someone who is actually making plays.