Firstly — if you missed our podcast yesterday on the breaking Antonio Brown news and a preview of the Arizona game, don’t forget to check it out…
Thoughts on Yannick Ngakoue’s second trade of 2020
According to Adam Schefter, the Baltimore Ravens are trading their 2021 third round pick and a 2022 conditional fifth to the Vikings for Ngakoue.
Basically, for the sake of six games, Minnesota dropped from a high second round pick to a late third — which is incredible and barely believable.
They end up paying around $6m and moving back approximately 50 picks for six games of Ngakoue.
And once again, the Ravens are the beneficiaries.
Remember in February when the Seahawks stated fixing the pass rush was the priority, only to fail to re-sign Jadeveon Clowney then replace him with Benson Mayowa? Then they traded a second and third round pick for Darrell Taylor — who wasn’t allowed to work out at the Senior Bowl or combine due to injury. It’s increasingly likely he won’t play in 2020 and who knows if or when he’ll be available?
The pass rush hasn’t been fixed and the defense is struggling badly.
Now compare this to Baltimore’s work this off-season:
— Acquired Calais Campbell for a fifth round pick
— Franchise tagged Matt Judon
— Signed Michael Brockers and when he failed a medical, pivoted to Derek Wolfe
— Drafted Justin Madubuike in round three
— Traded a third round pick for Yannick Ngakoue
The difference between the Seahawks and Ravens couldn’t be more stark.
Let’s consider an alternative universe. The Seahawks spend the $50m they used in free agency this year to keep Clowney (or properly replace him) and add Campbell. Instead of trading up for Darrell Taylor, they use their picks to add Ngakoue.
Would they have so many issues on defense? Would they look like the clear team to beat in the NFL?
It’s frustrating to think about what could’ve been.
Some suggested Jacksonville worked with Campbell to move him to the team of his choice and he personally selected the Ravens. Campbell revealed this wasn’t the case at all and that there were multiple interested parties.
I don’t think the Seahawks made a move for Calais because of Jarran Reed. I think they intended to pay Reed and didn’t want to invest $10-12m a year contracts in two defensive tackles. This, to me, was a philosophical call relating to the cap and ultimately a mistake. Campbell has four sacks in six games this year.
The Seahawks also badly need a dynamic edge rusher. Ngakoue has five sacks in six games this season.
A lack of a third rounder in 2021 makes it difficult to compete with Baltimore in this most recent trade. However, they still had a second rounder. They could’ve even offered players or more significant future picks.
If the Seahawks fail to add a pass rusher before the trade deadline, it would’ve been tolerable if the market at the position was quiet. It won’t be if other teams, like the Ravens, go out and get players like Ngakoue.
It wasn’t the only move. Yesterday the 49ers swapped a sixth for a seventh rounder with the Jets for Jordan Willis. His career has never got off the ground but his athletic potential has always been high. He ran a 1.57 10-yard split at his combine and a 4.53 forty. Seattle needs that kind of speed.
The 49ers are turning over rocks to find solutions. What are the Seahawks doing?
If teams like the Vikings have decided to put the ‘for sale’ sign up — the Seahawks have to be aggressive. Had they traded their second round pick for Ngakoue — there would’ve been no complaints here. As I mentioned on Monday — if there was ever a year to be aggressive, this is it.
Hoping for the best with the current pass rush isn’t going to cut it. They don’t have anyone on the roster who can consistently win 1v1 off the edge. They have the fifth worst sack percentage (3.6%) in the NFL.
If the Ravens realise their potential this year and the Seahawks are left wondering what could’ve been — the way both teams approached their pass rush will be a difficult pill to swallow.
The timing of the Antonio Brown report was extremely ‘convenient’
I mentioned this briefly in yesterday’s article but wanted to expand on the thought today. I’m convinced the Seahawks were extremely comfortable with Adam Schefter reporting the news on Antonio Brown and may have even had a hand in supplying the information.
This is a controversial prospective signing given Brown’s recent history. Gauging reaction would be an understandable move by the Seahawks.
You toss out the possibility via the NFL’s premier reporter and see what the fall out is. Schefter has the biggest reach and would be able to bring in the greatest reaction.
Everything about the report felt a little stage-managed. Schefter had a fancy ‘breaking news’ graphic to go with his tweet which I’m guessing he didn’t personally throw together in 15 minutes at home:
With Antonio Brown’s suspension eligible to end after week 8, the Seattle Seahawks are now positioned to make a push to sign him, though they’re not alone, league sources tell ESPN. Other teams also are interested. pic.twitter.com/ykn1NJ6LUm
— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) October 21, 2020
Then there’s the couched language:
“The Seattle Seahawks are now positioned to make a push to sign him, though they’re not alone, league sources tell ESPN. Other teams also are interested.”
Let’s parse this a little. The Seahawks are in a position to sign him but nothing is done. It’s both non-committal yet striking. If others are interested and nothing is done, why single out the Seahawks as an interested party? Why are they the focal point of the report, rather than the mere fact they are among the teams showing interest?
If my hunch is correct that this is an exercise in gauging reaction, the use of language is quite clever here. Down the line the Seahawks have an easy out if they decide not to sign him, with no discrediting of the reporter. They are the only team mentioned with the caveat that nothing is certain.
Using the media in this way is nothing new. Sports teams, governments, politicians, companies — it happens all the time. If you want to know what people think to an idea, get it into the media as a possibility and see what happens.
The heat is taken off somewhat if you know public opinion is on your side.
I’ve had a quick look at social media and the forums. There doesn’t seem to have been any kind of backlash. Some fans have been vocal in their disproval. Yet there hasn’t been a groundswell of negativity.
For that reason, I suspect the Seahawks might have received the feedback they require to feel comfortable making this signing. It would be curious for this information to be made so public and not come to fruition. If Pete Carroll wanted to play everything down he could’ve during his press conference. Instead, he embraced the report.
To me, this feels increasingly inevitable.
I do think there are some serious things to consider, including how you handle Brown. As noted yesterday — some responsibility needs to be placed with Russell Wilson. The quarterback wants him, has petitioned for him, so Wilson needs to make sure this works out.
It feels like he will get that opportunity and barring any setbacks Brown will likely agree terms with the Seahawks next week, go through the Covid-19 protocols and be ready to play Buffalo in week nine.
You can now support Seahawks Draft Blog via Patreon by clicking the tab below.
My only question is. If Pete Carroll and John Schneider have done such a bad job at drafting and signing free agents: Would the Seahawks be willing to use someone else to pick players? Because something has to change before the defense will improve.
It’s time to face the facts folks, the Baltimore Ravens a
re $6.5m over the cap
Did you just finish each others sentences?
I’m just here so I don’t get
caught by the wife on a porn site
LOL
Haha. Best community ever right here
ok . . .that is pretty well done . . . .
🙂
Rob why do you keep harping in the Hawks needing DL help I just don’t get it. Have you not seen how dominant our current group is?
We don’t need to trade for guy like YN or Ryan Kerrigan who can actually win a 1 v 1 battle off the edge. That is crazy talk! Darrel Taylor still has a chance to come back even though Pete certainly won’t say it and best of all haven’t you heard we have Steve Sullivan playing DE now and he was just a killer in high school.
Steve Sullivan as well as the ghosts of Darrel Taylor and Rashem Green should be more than enough to fortify this dominant unit that is only giving up 27 ppg.
Enough with your crazy talk Rob lets discuss how well the Hawks are dealing with the pandemic logistics instead.
But is DK improving in practice this week?
I would laugh Trevor — but I do get emails and messages that basically make these arguments — only without the humour attached!
It is sad really because Russ and this offense are playing at such a high level that this team would have a shot if they had even executed a decent plan with the DL. To make it worse they had the draft capital and cap space to make it happen. Still in the local media PC/JS get a complete pass.
I’m not convinced the offense is playing at a high level. An average level maybe. They have bursts of great performance which leads me to believe they could be doing much better. And that would take some pressure off the defense.
1st in the league in ppg. 7th in ypg.
A come from behind win by one point against a crappy team? The offense can play better. I would place this offense about 6th or 7th among teams.
They are first in DVOA, which measures actual efficiency. Sure you can argue their methods, and its never as good a formula early season as late season, but it is far above an average offense.
Against 5 teams with a combined record of 9 wins and 19 losses. Lets see how the stats are when they face teams with winning records.
I didn’t say they were average, but they aren’t playing up to their potential either. That’s why I rate them around 6th in offense.
Could you please post one sometime. It seems like that is an impossibility. Who would ever advocate that this Dline unit is even adequate, let alone good.
You wouldn’t believe some of the messages I get.
There are some very strange people out there.
who knows the details, but this one stings – he’s exactly what we needed – and the price was not at all outrageous. This is the kind of addition we made w Avril back in the day, adding to an already strong area.
maybe, as others have pointed out, this helps set the market for a half-season rental of a productive player, and will help spur other moves to happen.
I mean, we can trade a ’22 3rd round pick to a team that’s looking to re-build w youth, that’s still some value.
Maybe is the owner not willing to pull the trigger?
This is pretty annoying to keep seeing the frickin Ravens improve their dline whilst we bring guys off the couch and try out Sullivan at DE (long arms tho – am I right???)
But the Seahawks had all offseason to trade for Yannick, and weren’t interested, and they also weren’t going to trade their only remaining pick in the first 3 rounds for another player they cant negotiate with until the end of the year. Whether they should have gone and got him in the offseason is a different question, I spent the early days after the playoff elimination dreaming of pairing up Clowney and Yannick.
On the Brown thing I think you’re right, personally I hate the idea. But if his head is screwed on right (which I dont buy) he makes the offence look pretty unstoppable, which is good considering our defence makes everyone look unstoppable.
Not a lot of options left. If you can’t strengthen a weakness, you have to strengthen a strength. If you cannot trust Russ, Pete and the Seahawks culture then honestly where else could he sign? People say Baltimore with Harbaugh and Lamar but Lamar is young and maybe not as assertive as he would need to be if things went south. Plus the team already went through the Ray Rice saga.
Still holding out for Ryan Kerrigan…
I’d say they are folding for this season:
It’s time to face the facts folks, the Baltimore Ravens a better run franchise than the Seattle Seahawks. So are the Kansas City Chiefs. Arguments can be made for other franchises as well e.g. Rams.
For all of you saying “JS is asleep” and “what’s wrong with JS”, etc. this is PETE CARROLL’S FRANCHISE. John works UNDER Pete!!
From my vantage point, the only thing Seattle does better than Baltimore is have Russell Wilson as their QB.
Unfortunately Mike, you are probably right.
Totally agree Big Mike, especially this offseason and with this trade.
JS has been living off the 2012 draft for far too long. Sadly the Seattle media will never hold him accountable.
And even less chance they hold Pete accountable
While I agree with your larger point, where would you rank Seattle when it comes to most well run franchises? While KC and Baltimore may be run better, Seattle has to be in the top 5-10. You can’t be too upset about that.
I’m with you that this was a frustrating offseason and we’ve drafted poorly the last several years. All that said, you can’t argue with the run of the last 10 years and you have to give Pete credit for letting go a bit of how he wants to play on both sides of the ball this year, even of those decisions are somewhat forced by roster construction (which speaks to your point).
Surely there’s a reason the Vikings chose to do that trade?
I can’t figure it out, isn’t Ngakoue a free agent this year?
Wouldn’t they have likely gotten a 3rd in comp pick if they just lost him?
If the market becomes depressed due to Covid wouldn’t they then have just had an easier chance to retain him?
I think they’re giving up on the season.
Cutting their losses.
Probably not the only player they will trade.
This as well. Hunter is going under the knife. Zimmer is on the chopping block. They just handed the Falcons their only win. Vikes are 1-5 and packing up the tent.
Like the 3rd rounder we got for Clowney or Earl? Getting comp picks requires
1. The guy you lose gets paid handsomely, and before the cutoff
2. You lose more guys than you sign in FA
It takes away a lot of flexibility in FA, and runs the risk of getting nothing in return. Even if you would get a comp pick, it wouldn’t come until 2022 and every GM will take a 2021 3rd over one from 2022. Plus the conditional pick.
3rd rd comp pick next year or 3rd rd pick, slightly higher than a comp, this year. No brainer. They arent making the playoffs.
errr 3rd rd pick this year.
I’m not sure why anyone is remotely surprised by this. The front office has made it abundantly clear that they are not going to be spending up on the DL. It is the area we are skimping on, like the OL of years past.
We have one moderately priced player – Reed. We have a couple of guys who got vet starter pay – Irvin & Mayowa. That’s it. Everyone else is on a rookie deal or from the bargain bin. We weren’t willing to pay Clowney or any other big name. We weren’t willing to trade any picks for any players that have come to market.
We aren’t going to trade our last non-day 3 pick for DL. We just aren’t.
It’s a busted flush, that happened to catch a pair of 2’s on the river. They aren’t going to keep calling off chips on a loser. I think they will continue to ‘check’ around, but everyone hoping for a difference maker on the DL is likely in for more disappointment.
Then there’s a decent chance we’ll all be disappointed in January… again.
Also true.
Agree completely. There won’t be another addition beyond someone that warrants no higher than a 5th rounder. What you see is what you get on the DL folks. This is it……………………oh wait, nm, Sullivan to the rescue!! Hawks are golden.
Exactly. The defense is cooked this year. PC/JS KNOW it. No one is coming in to save it. Thus you sign AB and hope Russ can outscore everyone.
Didn’t work for the Chiefs a couple years ago and won’t work of us… Hope I am wrong about this as eating a big helping of Crow at the end of the year would be great
Does anyone know if the suspension AB is serving right now “covers” (for lack of a better term) all the outstanding legal troubles AB is having? What I’m asking is, is there a possibility of further sanctions coming in response to his troubles in the past? Not talking about any future issues that arise. Has this suspension addressed his entire past and does he have a clean future as long as he behaves himself?
I think it’s completely up to the league’s discretion. They can suspend him again whenever they feel appropriate, or if new accusations/evidence arises and they see fit.
Sure, the NFLPA I guess could bring them to court in theory, but they probably wouldn’t get very far at all.
I mean I understand tanking but, surely he’d be a piece you’d want to build around for next year? He’s a young top DE?!
There’s surely some sort of purple uniformed cartel going on here.
Nah, they were in cap hell and have now made it to cap purgatory.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/
They just lost their star pass rusher to injury and are starting two rookie CBs.
Kirk Cousins looks like, well, Kirk Cousins and they are 1-5 and in last place in the division.
They would rather cut their losses, save up for Anthony Harris and Danielle Hunter, and stock up on draft picks for a mini re-load.
The Vikings are a train wreck. They’ve been skating on the (salary cap) razor’s edge for a couple seasons now.
Think about this – they gave Kirk Cousins $66million to open up $10million of cap space. They borrowed $10million to with a promise to pay $40million or so later. That’s loan shark financing.
And all that might be palatable if Cousins was playing like a Mahomes or RW. He’s not. 11TDs/10 INTs and an 88 QB Rating.
https://overthecap.com/what-can-the-vikings-do-with-kirk-cousins/
After the draft each year the pundits always give out a grade that usually comes with the caveat that you can’t really grade a class for a year or two. So after each of the last 5-6 drafts I have tried to comfort myself with the thought that the Seahawks scouting staff must know something that the rest of us fans or the scouting fraternity don’t. After all they did draft Russ in the 3rd as well as Kam and Sherm in the 5th.
So as an exercise I printed off our last 6 draft classes last night and went through each pick by pick and gave each pick a grade knowing what we do now.
It is scary how badly we have drafted IMO and I challenge anyone to do the same thing and come up with a different conclusion. There were 3-4 really good picks like Locket, Clark and Carson but wow have we ever whiffed badly on a ton of high picks.
No matter what the outcome this year I think the Hawks need to really do an overhaul on their scouting department and process because what they are doing now is not working. I truly believe if we did not have Russ this is a bottom 10 nfl roster and that is a direct reflection of scouting, drafting and development.
100% agree. And Clark was traded. Put DK in there too btw.
David Moore in the 7th was a fairly solid pick, but your point is clear. Our drafts have been painfully poor.
Call Scot McCloughan please!
I’ll second that call to McCloughan. We need help badly!
I have been thinking about this for awhile as well.
I’m going to already put Damien Lewis in the “hit” catagory for drafting. He’s a superior run blocker and already passable in pass pro and will get better in that area. Pro Bowl and maybe even All-Pro written all over that kid,
.
Agree! That youngin is a stud!
Carson, Lewis, Dissly, Metcalf, Lockett, Moore, Ugo, Dickson, Clark.
Mayyyybe Pocic if this is his true form and he’s extended. Salvageable pick at minimum.
7 of 22 starters weren’t drafted by Seattle. If your talking blue chippers, I agree. If not, big disagree.
I guess that is my point Vol there is a huge difference between a replacement level player and a blue chip player.
I would argue they have drafted 6 blue chip players in 6 years and 58 selections. Not sure that is a great ratio.
Clark
Locket
Reed
Carson
Dickson
DK
Lewis
I’ve studied their drafts since 2014. If the would have taken best player available instead of drafting for need they would have:
2014-Stephan Tuitt
2015-AJ Cann
2016-Miles Jack
2017-Sidney Jones, Alvin Kamara
2018-Harold Landry, Maurice Hurst, Tim Settle
2019-Jawaan Taylor, DK Metcalf
These were all the best players available according to NFL.com grades. These show the first pick each year or 2nd or 3rd pick in other years.
I forgot 2020
Patrick Queen, Cam Akers, Jordon Elliott, Prince Tega Wanagho, Bryce Hall, Alton
Robinson, Benito Jones, Hunter Bryant
Ravens making another move… dusting off the cobwebs on Dez Bryant.
I’m beyond disgusted at this point. There is no reason we couldn’t have made this deal, we have traded with Minnesota in the past. I don’t even know what to say, we are just getting caught flat footed with every available pass rusher. Once we drop a coupe winnable games due to not being able to get an offense off the field, the media needs to crucify Carroll. I’ll be shaking my head until we take advantage of one of these opportunities.
JS will be the target/fall guy, not Pete, even though we know who runs the show.
I may be in the minority here but I’d be pissed if they gave up that second rounder, essentially punting on the draft, for a player they’d have trouble resigning anyways.
Have we figured it out yet? When Pete says “we’re in on every deal” he’s leaving it up to you to finish the thought. Most fans like to think that means they’re competing to acquire…………………..now we know it more often means they’re “active” spectators. That disconnect shows that what we fans believe doesn’t compart with what the team believes.
comport
I don’t really get your point here. Without actually looking at the numbers I’d say the Seahawks make more trades than 90% of the other teams. If you’re saying they aren’t actually considering the possibility of adding every player known to be available, I would simply point you to the trades that have been completed over the years.
I don’t think anyone should be surprised that we didn’t just trade for Ngakoue, if they wanted him on the team they would have done it the first time around. The news today just confirms what we already knew. The Seahawks simply don’t want him.
If you ignore this season you make some viable points. But what I’m talking about is today, not yesterday/yesteryear. They haven’t been reported to have been in on a single notable FA or trade available upper level D line talent………………not one. That’s what this blog has been enumerating for the past several months. Opportunity after opportunity has been snagged by other teams without a report that the Seahawks were significant competitors. Some might claim they were on Clowney the whole way, but he ended up signing with the Titans for pretty much the deal that had been reported as the one the Hawks originally offered. For whatever reason he jilted the guys he told he wanted to return to, which is beside the point, but reality.
If the Seahawks go through another Clooney situation with Jamal Adams, someone needs to get fired. Unless Seattle improves their Defensive line the Adams trade was a waste.
Not really a Clowney situation all. They gave up the farm for Adams at a position of strength. They gave up a late 3rd for Clowney at a position of need.
They panicked traded for a great player, but one we didn’t really need. Now will have to pay up to keep him.
True I just don’t think the Adams trade was necessary and it killed there chances to trade for an impact pass rusher.
While I get your frustration, they had multiple opportunities for potential impact rushers before doing the Adams deal and chose not to do any of them, or do enough for any of them. They have some belief, whatever it may be, that doesn’t move them to value pass rusher as much as we think they should…….no matter the words from their mouth, their actions speak differently.
Two first rounders for a one year deal on a guy that is injured. Hopefully he will be back this weekend.
Rob, you hit the nail on the head, “Its frustrating to think what could have been.” I remember all of the talking points about Fowler, Clowney, Quinn, Vernon, etc. All the talk about the cap space we finally have to make a push, to fix our trenches and be a force. The draft was going to reinforce the talent we got in FA, and prepare us for Wilsons prime. Our offense was going to be healthy, the D would be rejuvenated, the NFC west would be ours to lose.
We sit here now, left with 5 million in cap, – 2 first rounders and a third, for the defense to somehow have gotten worse than last year, while our MVP caliber QB is keeping this leaking ship afloat by bailing the water out with a shot glass. Its unbelievable to think that this team is 5-0 despite how poorly we managed the offseason. It’s a tough pill to swallow watching the other contenders add the Ngakoues and Bells of the world, while we sign a LB to the practice squad. Where is the sense of urgency? I refuse to believe that we see it differently than PCJS, and they know our defense just simply isn’t good enough. You might as well make our back 7 cones with the way our pass rush is playing.
I know this seems overly negative, and it’s true we are sitting at 5-0. Russ is playing his brains out, and he is finally in the conversation for the MVP. Its hard for me to look at the Ravens and Chiefs and see them going all out while we twiddle our thumbs.
You’re not being negative, you’re simply being correct.
How have Fowler, Clowney, Quinn, Vernon, Everson Griffen etc been playing this year? How does their production (not name value, not potential, what they have actually done this year) compare to say Benson Mayowa?
Well Clowney’s PFF grade is streets ahead of Mayowa’s (70’s vs 50’s).
It’s very easy to criticise how those players are performing elsewhere. I wanted them to go after Calais —- four sacks in six games. I wanted them to re-sign Clowney. I wanted them to sign him a partner in crime. I wouldn’t have been against the Vikings trade for Ngakoue and he has five sacks in six games.
I will argue with confidence against anyone who says that wouldn’t have improved the defense from 2019, rather than watch it get even WORSE.
Rob, is “streets ahead” a term that gets regular use across the pond? There was a bit on the show Community where Chevy Chase tries to get it to be a thing. I really want it to catch on over here.
It’s certainly a term we use!
Admit it Rob, you’re just a huge fan of The Streets.
Used the phrase ahead by a street for a long time out here on the Left coast.
All of them have been asked to play in depth/complimentary roles. On the Hawks, they would be our best DE.
As Rob has stated, THIS IS OUR MAJOR DEFIECENCY; DL! IF we would have secured 2 of those on your above list, along with Jamal, I can only imagine; we could be the best team in the NFL. Instead, we are where we are. The frustrating part is mistakes were made, BUT Nagkoue offered a definite opportunity to improve the DL at a reasonable price. We dropped the ball.
So is drafting BPA bad or drafting for need? Because I kinda felt like this years past draft was BPA. And we heard for years how that was the way to go. Or rather, Seattle should adopt that strategy.
Fit is the most important factor that often gets overlooked. DK is perfect for what Seattle does. Lamar Jackson going to the Browns or Jets, picked early instead of at the end of round 1, isnt the same guy we see now. Who fit at DE that they passed on this year?
I would say Julian Okwara if this question was posed to me immediately after the draft, but Detroit just put him on IR so it’s not like he’s tearing it up either. I don’t think they loved any of the DE options and viewed Darrell Taylor as the best of a bad bunch.
If you could go back and redo the draft with future vision, you pickup CEH in the first and trade up for Chase Claypool in the second. Then resign Kendricks in Free Agency and some other FA DE who’s not Mayowa. Of course, taking CEH before the chiefs did could have triggered a butterfly effect and Claypool potentially becomes out of reach, so these exercises are kind of pointless.
I am with you 100% that is the draft I was hoping for and they could have done it.
I liked Taylor a lot but if the medical was not good they should have passed and definitely not traded up. I still think he and Brooks end up being good players just not this year.
With the offseason playing out exactly as it did, I don’t think they passed up on anyone. People complain a lot about Taylor but Uche, Okwara, Gross-Matos and Zuniga have all been hurt and have done nothing. But I think the lessen is narrow your draft needs through FA. The approach to the strengths of FA and the draft were counterintuitive.
I’d argue that Brooks was neither BPA nor position of need.
He was a consensus 2nd rounder at a position of strength. Our 2nd and 4th picks went to a guy who won’t play a down. Our 3rd pick went to our 18th OL. Our 5th pick went to our 5th TE (who also won’t play)… I mean, are we basing 70% of the decision based on the interview?
Lewis looks good so far, and the jury is out on Brooks and Taylor, but the process itself seems flawed.
“the process itself seems flawed”
Without a shadow of a doubt.
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/why-seattles-possible-2019-draft-plan-needs-to-be-challenged
Great write-ups and podcasts Rob. I only hope our team can shock us and address our D-line and Pass Rush at the deadline. Give you something positive to put up there.
This trade by Baltimore only continues to show how to address your need in the offseason and at the trade deadline.
When it comes to addressing their priorities. Both them and Seattle stated they needed to upgrade their Speed and Pass Rush.
Ravens traded for Campbell; now Ngakoue. The draft addressed the font 7 on defense and O-line. Great draft. Plus they kept Judon and added Wolfe in Free-agency. They actually went out and addressed things.
Seahawks had a miserable and confusing offseason. The Adams trade only added to the confusion and at a great cost. We didn’t need a safety. I would have been happy to see us trade a 2nd for Ngakoue.
At 5-0 the Seahawks should go all in. If they can move the cap around and try to add 2 players to improve our Pass Rush they should do it; even if it uses our 2nd and 4th round picks this year.
I don’t know if it’s possible, but Kerrigan for a 4th and Cox for a 2nd.
Make it work. I could handle having almost no picks next draft and missing the Superbowl if I atleast felt they were truly going after it.
Not only doe’s it seem like they could waste Wilson’s MVP caliber start, but make the Adams trade even more of a waste.
They truly need to make moves for impact, NOT depth.
This is a fair point.
https://twitter.com/joe_fann/status/1319325461902618625?s=21
It will be interesting to see if a question gets asked about this in the future….
https://twitter.com/joe_fann/status/1319325761426223104?s=21
🍿🍿🍿🍿
Doesn’t Russell have enough plausible deniability in regards to his role in advocating for signing Brown? It wouldn’t be hard for him to say he doesn’t decide who the Front Office signs but anyone they sign he’ll embrace as a teammate, or something along those lines. Pete is the one who should be asked that question.
Besides, Russell embraced Frank Clark. I am not an expert on the Brown accusations but the Clark accusations were pretty damn serious.
Wilson has gone to bat for Brown, including working out with him.
It’s a fair question for Joe Fann to ask —- and a proper question that should be asked, regardless of our individual stances on signing Brown.
Where is this notion that the Seahawks “tout themselves as an organization of great morals” coming from. That’s Chris Petersen’s thing, not Pete Carroll’s.
Quinton Dunbar was just accused of robbing people at gunpoint and the Seahawks didn’t flinch. Tony McDaniel and Frank Clark both had nasty domestic violence incidents in their past, and Michael Bennett wasn’t exactly a great guy either. They also had Tramaine Brock on the roster for a bit a few years ago and he had a serious domestic violence accusation in his past.
You can disagree with signing Brown, but the idea that it would be some breach of the precedent the Seahawks have set is bogus.
I don’t know, ask Joe Fann about it. Those are his words.
But it’s perfectly acceptable to challenge the Seahawks on whether they place winning above all else given Brown’s rap sheet.
Not saying it’s your words or trying to disagree with you. It’s a fair question to ask Russ, about how he feels about Browns rap sheet. Totally fair.
I just disagree with the notion that the Seahawks “tout themselves as an organization of great morals”. It makes Fann seem rather ignorant on the teams recent history.
Don’t forget about Jarran Reed and his 6 week suspension for his role in a domestic violence incident.
I would guess he’s probably thinking of the recent team discussion about police violence towards black men and women and voting. As we know they’ve been quite vocal about it.
I can’t help but feel that’s an entirely different discussion, and that Fann is being opportunistic trying to connect the two. I agree though, that is what Fann is kind of suggesting with his tirade today.
Literally just came here to post this with the popcorn emoji. Beat me to it!
https://twitter.com/joe_fann/status/1319325761426223104?s=21
Let’s not forget what a role model he was in front of his kid and her mother, when she tried to retrieve kids clothing from his house.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XZ9bU5DQP4&ab_channel=TYTSports
Language is very NSFW. Rob, you can delete the link if you think it’s inappropriate.
Or when he almost hit a 22 month old with furniture that he chucked out of his 14th floor balcony.
https://www.tmz.com/2018/10/09/antonio-brown-lawsuit-assault-furniture-rage/
I personally can’t stand the guy, but if we are going to sign him, it’s totally fair to question Pete. I already know the answer (he’s been in counseling, he realizes his mistakes, wants a fresh start, yada yada) but Pete should have to answer for putting winning above culture, when the culture is such a hallmark of what he preaches.
So if the Seahawks did sign Brown and get Gordon back they’d have like 8 WR and 5 TE. seems like they could trade some pass-catchers for some D-line help.
No need. Sullivan to the rescue!
He can still save the defensive line!
I propose trading Jarran Reed for another TE. Maybe can move Hollister down to 4th string. After all, he doesn’t count anything against the cap. Right?
I kind of missed the announcement where Pete John Schneider and Russell Wilson all got together and said they’d only allow upstanding citizens with no criminal history on the roster. This notion that the Seahawks see themselves as this morally pure organization is some sort of concocted fan narrative. It’s a business and the business is to win.
I’m so pissed about having missed Ngakoue for a second time… absolutely speechless
Then you must have missed Schneider’s interviews in the wake of the Clark draft, in which he insisted that the Hawks had investigated the situation before Clark was drafted, and had concluded that he was a person of good character who had made a mistake in an emotional situation.
Or the interviews since Harvin left in which he has said that he has learned that in trades or draft, you can’t be blinded by talent, and that mental make-up matters.
That’s a very narrow take. The Seahawks are ingrained in the community and the players are role models or at the least, idolized by young kids.
For every dad out there who’s proud that his little boy’s idol (apart from dad himself) is Russell Wilson, there were a similar number of Pittsburgh dad’s with kids who looked up to AB. Who said, I want to be like AB when I grow up. What’s the message here, if you’re that kid? Keep screwing over everyone close to you and acting like a psychopath, because it’s ok, someone will always give you another shot. Want to endanger little kids, sexually assault women then intimidate them? You’ll get a pass. Want to throw your teammates under the bus and refuse to play by the rules (helmet fiasco)? Someone will still hire you, AND you’ll get to live in a mansion and drive a Bentley.
Look, I’m not blind or naïve. Ray Rice clocked his fiancé on camera and got effectively banned for life, yet Joe Mixon did the same exact thing and just signed a $48M contract. Why? The fallout was worth the upside with Mixon, but not with Rice. There is a cognitive dissonance when it comes to people’s actions if enough time has passed that gets amplified by their ability to contribute to your own goals.
You’re right that it is a business and there is a cost/benefit analysis that goes into decisions. Usually it’s the draft capital or the $contract$. In this case it’s about; will fans revolt or will AB leave them with egg on their faces? He’s a great player that won’t cost a pick or a lot of money. Being uneasy about supporting a guy with his track record and questioning the decision to bring him into our locker room, is totally fair.
I don’t expect the Hawks to be some altruistic franchise that fields a team of choir boys, but man, AB as a Hawk makes me cringe.
VERY well said
Well, I don’t disagree with anything you said. I think people are missing my point. The seahawks have set a precedent that they’ll overlook criminal accusations if they believe the player will help them win. Signing Brown would go along with that precedent.
Brown is quite possibly a complete scumbag. So was Frank Clark. They didn’t care then and they won’t now.
Also true.
I don’t want to go through and try to accuse or clear Brown on the various allegations made against him. There were points in the saga that made me feel like Brown was struggling with serious mental health issues and needed help, there were others where he came across as a scumbag. I don’t know where he is in his journey now. I don’t think you do either. Russell, if he and Brown are still in contact, might have a better idea than either of us, or Joe Fann.
But that is all I will say on this topic. If Brown is signed I don’t even expect him to make as much of an impact as some fans might hope. He’s 32 and hasn’t played football in a bit. And we have two fantastic receivers in Metcalf and Lockett who deserve the main bulk of targets.
The difference between Joe mixon and Ray Rice is this.
Joe Mixon Claimed she called him the N word.
Race > Gender in the hierarchy of oppression.
I’m so pissed about having missed Ngakoue for a second time… absolutely speechless
They traded a 2 and 3 for Taylor. They could have gotten Ngakoue for one 2 and kept the 3. I know it’s different drafts, but this team can win the Super Bowl this year… but they WON’T with this current shit at EDGE. It’s maddening.
I want my Kyler Fackrell! It’s not like he’s a superstar Pro Bowler, but he’d be a major improvement. Not to the degree of Ngakoue, but they’ve gotta do something.
https://media3.giphy.com/media/3t7RAFhu75Wwg/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9522kz2q5bcyn7b3chuaigq84s33u1r9ff29c4i4cjr&rid=giphy.gif
Clearly I don’t know how to attach a gif
Bobby I’ll take anyone who can rush the passer, i got mildly excited about Bullard being added
Desperate to win now… what’s the holdup ?
Who is Ngakoue replacing? Will Judon be availlable?
McPhee. Ravens depth chart already updated on ESPN.
Nope. He’s playing under the tag.
What would you guys think of taking a stab at Quinnen Williams? He has underperformed and could potentially be added for a 2nd + a 5th? I know we need edge rushers, but for a guy that’s only 22 and under club control for 3 more years. He’d be a better option than any 2nd rounders available in this upcoming draft with all the uncertainties there will be.
If I were going to give up that kind of draft capital to acquire a player I would rather it be a productive edge rusher. I agree with the club control aspect but he’s not what this team needs right now. However, I wouldn’t be surprised given PCJS history with signing and drafting players we simply don’t need.
I’m fine if it’s just a 2nd round pick and they also aquire someone like kerrigan for their 4th or 5th round pick.
I’d love this! He’s going to be a great 3 tech – big disruptor
The Seahawks offseason quest for pass rush well illustrated.
https://twitter.com/QuirkyResearch/status/1319261471881240581
The first comment under the video is priceless
Perfect just perfect.
The Seahawks offseason and attempt to address the Pass Rush summed up nicely
Funny! And so true!
Seahawks – Cardinals game moved to Sunday night.
Sorry Rob 🙁
LOL. That is the first thing I thought of. Now Rob has to watch it at 1:20am his time instead of 9:20pm.
Thankfully the clocks go back so it’ll only be 12:20am… but still…
My first thought to this was ‘oh bollocks’.
Somehow I was expecting this to happen now that we’re a hot team… 😦
Haha. Sorry my dude. Russ plays his best in primetime. Maybe he will have it sewn up early…yeah i know…
Sorry Rob! You’re a true fan to stay up until 3 AM to watch the game. I l myself like having another game on Prime time. Where I am (in NorCal) not all the Hawks games are televised and now I get to watch the game live.
That’s cool — and to be honest I’d be pumped if I lived in the states.
I got lucky I’m in india so its 5:50 am game
Well I live in Sydney ,Australia and the game is 11:20am Monday morning , right in the middle of the working day . Lucky my computer faces the wall so my boss can’t suspect I’m not doing my work .
I will be in Phoenix Sunday night. Anyone know how to get tickets?
I just Googled it. Good luck with those prices… 😲
https://seatgeek.com/seahawks-at-cardinals-tickets/10-25-2020-glendale-arizona-state-farm-stadium/nfl/5319966
Can we donate 10% of those proceeds and get a slightly bigger salary cap in 2021? LOL
Just a brief note. I didn’t see it mentioned here or among the usual beat reporters Twitter:
Ken Norton was asked about Snacks’ ETA and he was non-committal. He said the Seahawks have “really good depth at the position” and Snacks is going to “have to fight to get on the field.” Said “It’s going to come down to practice” and “it’s a competition.”
So don’t be shocked if he isn’t active Sunday.
Really good depth? Did Ken say that with a straight face?
Given Snacks’ offers from other teams to be on their active roster, I’m guessing Ken was just trying to give Mone and Rush a fist bump of confidence for their play so far.
But that’s just a guess.
I think it’s be a major surprise if Snacks was active. They’ve done nothing but play him down since arriving in Seattle and seem to be giving him a four-week pre-season.
LOL Chris Simms just said Kyler Murray “has three rockets up his butt.”
How true.
1,Rob, you commented before that it’s very very unlikely (or something along those lines) that Vikes trade Ngakoue. And this happened. Do you think other trades you shut the door on might happen now?
2, I’m unbelievably pissed with the FO now… What. The. Hell???? They could’ve easily get Ngakoue for 2021 2nd or maybe a player + 2021 4th + 2022 3rd or something like that. Totally doable and wouldn’t cost that much. Young, capable of sacks. It’s maddening…
3, Hard pass on Brown. Nah, just don’t. He won’t passrush, DK, Lockett, Swain, Moore is good, flash might come back. He’s trouble. I’m speechless
1. I was wrong about Ngakoue but no I don’t think so.
To be fair, it was the Minnesota Vikings who were really wrong.
Rob, we’ve discussed the trail of mistakes and the cost in the past. This trade is another for me. Trading picks for Adams to help the pash rush (due the free agency failures) has also kept them from trading for Ngakoue. While they could have bested the Ravens with an R2, it’d leave them with no early picks and a bunch of free agents. I think a 3rd was appropriate but they didn’t have it.
Separately I’d prefer we trade the R2 for someone under contract beyond 2020.
I think the Adams trade warrants more of a critique than it’s received so far.
Massive cost. Not a glaring position of need. Hamstrings them for the next two years in terms of stock. They are duty bound to give him an enormous, record-setting contract now.
Hamstrings… 🤭😏
Oh, wait… it’s a groin he’s dealing with. Joke fail…
less of a joke and more of a groiner…
pardon me, I’m just pulling your leg.
I’d offer a critique but that’s pretty difficult when he’s only played 2 3/4 games so far.
“The greatest ability is availability” -Tony Dungy
Bad news for people who live across the pond. My cousin just texted me and said the hawks have been flexed to Sunday night football because of the outbreak of Covid 19 along the raiders offensive line
Never mind. Already posted. Day late and a buck short as usual.:)
Yep, my reaction was to open a bottle of wine.
Desperate times require desperate measures.
Good man!
Cheers
I’m not at work Monday, and with the slightly earlier start, it’s a lucky one for me.
Let’s hope your prediction is wrong though, losing at 3am is always miserable.
If you can credit the 49ers for turning over rocks to find solutions, you have to give the Seahawks the same credit. They kicked the tires on DeAndre Walker, Jonathan Bullard, and Damontre Moore. Those are about the same caliber moves as the 49ers trading for Willis, maybe even a little better. They’ve even given Shaquem more pass rushing snaps. Clearly they are looking for solutions and not sitting idly on their hands. They just haven’t made a big move yet.
There’s a difference between going out and trading for a player and claiming players from other teams practise squads for a little look.
And in no way am I going to praise them for giving Shaquem more pass rush reps. They set out to avoid having to do that again this year. Yet here we are — because they failed to address the pass rush during the off-season.
And what difference is that? Giving up something of value? Willis has three career sacks (one half sack less than Bullard), and yet the 49ers traded for him. Just because they actually traded for Willis doesn’t make him a better player than Bullard or Moore.
I know the Seahawks need to do more. Just don’t point to the 49ers as the example of trying to find solutions.
I’ll point to whatever I like, thanks.
A trade is clearly different than giving Walker two weeks on the roster or seeing if Damontre Moore has got anything on for the next few months.
You’re right, its your blog, you point to whatever you want. I’m just going to disagree about the 49ers trying any harder or smarter than the Seahawks. The Ravens, on the other hand, are really going after it.
I get that you’re concerned about the pass rush. We all are. But I hope you don’t dwell on it too much that you forget to enjoy the ride that so far looks like it could be a special season.
I don’t know why you would assume I might not be enjoying the ride.
You’re speaking to someone who for 12 years has dedicated hours and hours of his free (family) time to write about the Seahawks for no financial reward. Who stays up until 4-5am for every prime time game then goes to work on little or no sleep. Someone who, when allowed, travels 1000’s of miles to watch the Seahawks play in person. Someone who this year decided not to take my usual time off the blog because we were all going through the lockdown together and in return has copped a shit ton of abuse for daring to criticise the Seahawks’ approach to the off-season (yet keeps coming back for more).
If you think because I write a critique, a fair critique, of how they handled the pass rush this year, that I’m sat here not enjoying wins then that is ridiculous. Don’t conflate a proper, serious review of the teams’ front office performance with enjoyment of following this team. You won’t find many who are more passionate about the Seahawks than me. Ask my poor wife.
Per Breer:
Dunlap and Kerrigan would look nice across from each other…
And low-key #BringBackFant…?
I’d take Fant back. Never wanted them to let him leave. We are going to need a replacement for Brown eventually.
Also, I guess I hadn’t realized it was quite that bad… almost 1/3 of the teams have only 1 win??
Also, forgot to link to the source for Breer’s article, so here it is:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/10/22/nfl-trade-deadline-primer-sellers-players-available-covid19
“The difference between the Seahawks and Ravens couldn’t be more stark.”
Depressing. Ravens are paying a small price to improve their pass rush (actually paying less than the Vikings). As tough as it is to acknowledge, they have made all the right moves. In comparison we are going to sign our 15th WR and may be add another TE to boot. Will AB be happy for 5-6 targets a game? Not having played for so long is he going to make this offense so much better over adding Gordon (and much less drama)?
Well done to Gregg Bell, Joe Fann and Art Thiel for asking the questions of Russell Wilson that NEEDED to be asked.
These press conferences are not buddy-buddy sessions. They are the only opportunity for people who represent YOU, the fans, to be held to account.
This is a serious subject. Wilson, who has gone to bat for Antonio Brown, needed to be challenged. And he looked decidedly uncomfortable. That comes with the territory, Russ.
Shame on the others who are non-Seahawks employees for sticking to the fluff questions.
Now fellas — let’s hear some seriously challenging questions on the way they’ve built this defense, eh?
They did well and frankly, Russ did not.
Russ looked agitated, irritated and moody.
Russ has been incredibly careful in building a clean cut family man image. It is hard to make that mesh with supporting Antonio Brown. He opened t his can of worms though so will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Russell, like a lot of people in his position, isn’t used to being challenged.
Imagine what it’s like being Wilson. You’ve got to imagine he is surrounded by sycophants.
But when you decide to stake your reputation, to some extent, on helping Antonio Brown return to the NFL — you’re going to have to answer to that.
And Wilson looked like a bloke who didn’t like it one bit — being challenged, or having to answer awkward questions.
Good on those journalists who chose to stick their heads above the parapet. Shame on those who don’t work for the team who resorted to their typical nonsense fluff.
Agree completely. Hope the challenge Pete next about the DL
Staking your reputation on AB sounds like it would go about as well as challenging a shark to an eating contest.
Also, I’m not sure he makes this team better.
Sharks sure do love a good ‘eat’.
“Russell, like a lot of people in his position, isn’t used to being challenged.”
He should think about what if he was playing for one of the NY teams. He would be grilled in every press meeting. Seattle journalists are pussy cats in comparison.
I haven’t watched today’s press update yet. Did anyone ask about Raven’s move to trade for Ngakoue and if we were in the hunt for him? And if not, why not?
It’s a players only conference today. Wilson, Wright and Metcalf so far. Hopefully Pete will be asked about Ngakoue and other possible trades tomorrow.
You know, to extend your theory a little Rob, I think the releasing of the information yesterday just before the PC press conf was a tactical decision for the Hawks and Russ as well.
The press and fans got a whole day to stew on this idea and be ready for Russ’ press conf today.
Wouldn’t shock me at all if that was intentional. Seahawks showing Russ, yeah you can stump for your friend, but here’s what comes with it. Are you sure that’s what you want?
Maybe so.
But if they do indeed sign him — Carroll better get ready. He’s going to get these questions too.
John Schneider won’t of course because unlike many other GM’s in the NFL, he barely ever talks.
Yeah, I kinda think PC/JS are against it cause they know what it’s like. Regardless of what you think of AB or whether he should get another chance, it will become a headline topic and a distraction. AS we know from the past, locker room distractions can derail an entire season. Seems like Russ is still pushing for it, so they wanted to give him a taste of what it would be like.
I’m thinking best-case scenario for everyone might be that Josh Gordon finally gets re-instated and they can just skip the whole AB saga/distraction because “the WR room is full” (an easy excuse as to why they didn’t sign him in the end.)
I wish they would just settle the Josh debacle. I definitely prefer Josh over AB
I doubt the Seahawks would invite this talk unless Brown signing was a near certainty.
I think, as noted in the article, they are gauging reaction by leaking it. And I don’t think there’s been a big enough backlash.
Well, I for one liked what Joe Fann tweeted earlier. Someone needed to say it and fortunately it was one of the local yokals that did it.
👏👏👏
I know Gregg is a good guy who cares about right and wrong. He’s not someone who’ll blindly write good things about a guy like AB for the sake of it. He’s pretty liberal (don’t mean that bad at all) with certain standards of humanity that he won’t compromise.
Would I like anyone to ask something like:
“Pete, Your self confessed priority this past off-season was your DL and specifically your pass rush. It’s quite apparent through five weeks (using stats Rob has alluded to many times) that your DL is actually worse than last year. What would you say to fans who expected improvement in this self-confessed top priority who are frustrated that this area is actually worse?”
Yes!!!
I wish they would take a “12 of the Week” question and not the vanilla propaganda questions they answer on Seahawks.com. I would love to ask:
“Dear Mr. Carroll, I have been a fan since the middle of the 1983 season. I love the Seahawks. However, this is the worst DL I have ever seen in almost four decades being a die-hard fan. How can this DL be even worse than last year when you claimed it was your top off-season priority? You have so many great qualities and I appreciate the work you have done here, but I would like an honest answer to this tough and unfortunate question. Thank you.”
Perfect
Gregg Bell a liberal! He’d probably punch you in the face for saying that! I would love for that question to be asked though and Gregg could pull it off.
Just because he went to West Point and served in the Army for many years doesn’t mean he’s not liberal on social issues. I doubt he’d punch me in the face because he and I met at a Vikings/Seahawks preseason game two years ago in Minnesota and had a chance to chat for about 20 minutes. I like him. But, yes, I’d love the pass rush question as I alluded to earlier.
I like him too. I don’t know Gregg at all except for what he has shown us in his reporting. I’ve watched a lot of Gregg’s video reporting after games and reading his reports about the hawks because I like him and respect his opinion. I’m not trying to paint him one way or another but his tone and mannerisms are so in line with people I’ve known all my life having grown up in the military. He wouldn’t punch you in the face…he’s too much a gentleman and aware of others. That was unfair of me to say that. Sorry Gregg for stereotyping you.
Gregg seems like a thoroughly decent bloke.
During the lockdown period (I don’t know what you guys call it, we had a lockdown here from March until the summer) I got a bit tired of the Capitol Hill stuff. Especially given the way that ended up. And personally — I follow these guys for Seahawks news and opinions, not their political views. That aside, he seems like the kind of bloke you’d want to know.
But I’d still like a serious challenge to Carroll and/or Schneider about how stating pass rush as the defining off-season priority led to the defense being in it’s current state.
Not saying it’s a good thing or a bad thing but Gregg Bell most certainly has liberal views and would not be shy to share them with you or anybody else.
The true answer to that question is a long and sad saga that begins with a fateful ATV ride…
Did Tom Brady get the same questions last year before he was cut? Or did Bellichick just shut the whole thing down?
No idea
Did Tom Brady do an offseason instagram photoshoot of him working out with AB? Different situation.
I kind of wish Russ would have just said. Listen what he did was not ok but I just want to win a Super Bowl and he helps get us there. This is professional football and I get paid to win. I think Antonio Brown helps us win. It is as si,ole as that.
Yep.
People never answer this way — but honestly it’s the best answer. Otherwise you just sound like you’re speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
Just say you want to win a title — that’s your main goal — he helps you do it.
There’s no comeback from that.
I mean, I thought of that too, and I guess the comeback is then: “so you’re willing to set aside other values like being a good teammate/person as long as it helps you win?”.
Sure, I guess that’s what they are asking anyways in an indirect way, but until one side comes out bluntly, the other side can’t stick it to you that bluntly either. (though kudos to Joe Fann for doing what he said he would and coming out swinging)
That kinda is what Russ said in his response to Bell’s question.
“The reality about Antonio is he’s one of the best players to ever play this game, obviously. He’s always been a special player in terms of the field (feel?). The reality is, with Antonio, he’s had some tough moments in his life–especially as of late–I think he’s gone through a lot of things that he wishes he could take back and do and not say, or whatever it may be, but I think that he’s a special player for sure.
I don’t know what’s gonna happen with him or not–how serious it is with us getting him with us getting him or not–but I do know that obviously he can play some football.”
He didn’t say it quite as succinctly as Trevor, but the message was near the same.
He also said, ‘nobody’s perfect’ and ‘I wasn’t there’.
Which are both clumsy answers.
No doubt.
The “I wasn’t there so I can’t judge what he did” is a weak dodge. It’s PR flack that everyone knows is a waste of time but it ducks speaking the truth about the situation.
The problem with answering this way is that it makes one sound as though winning a football game is more important than, say, sexual assault and intimidation.
Brown deserves his day in court, should it come to that. Innocent until proven guilty. But it was just over one year ago when he quit on his second straight team, threatening to punch his GM and posting a private phone conversation with his head coach online in the process. Oh, and he’s on probation for an assault that happened 9 months ago.
You know what would’ve been a better plan?
Sort the bloody pass rush out in free agency, then draft one of the top receivers in the draft.
Could’ve been Chase Claypool (who we talked about a lot). Could’ve traded up for Aiyuk or Jefferson (who we talked about a lot).
There’s an idea.
Exactly, this isn’t even hindsight.
I still want a real sit-down with JS at some point to explain what the heck the actual plan was.
It bothers me a little bit that Schneider doesn’t do any media during the season.
He only does interviews before and after the draft, the combine and when he’s publicising his charity event.
He should be held accountable for the way this team is built. But I doubt anyone would ask a challenging question anyway.
That’ll never happen. JS is not accountable for any of his actions.
Yeah but then they wouldn’t have been able to trade two firsts a third and a decent S for a unquestionably really good S that apparently is going to miss his 3rd game in a row Sunday night.
“The greatest ability is availability” – Tony Dungy
This is way better isn’t it?
I honestly don’t think the roster construction would’ve affected RW stumping for AB.
They have 4 TEs on the roster they’re not using. David Moore has 14 targets in 5 games, and Dorsett and Josh Gordon coming online at some point.
They’re not in a position of need, and yet here’s RW and the team dropping a line in the water about this guy.
He hasn’t done much this year, but Bryan Edwards would have been a slick third round pick along with Lewis. Heck, you could have drafted another defensive lineman and still played the suspended receiver waiting game.
One thing I want to mention is I believe there is bad blood between Minnesota and Seattle. I don’t remember us ever having any deals with them ever since the Hutchinson debacle. Then we did the same thing with Burleson, and we haven’t messed with them ever since. Hate to say it, but I don’t think dealing with them is ever on the table, unless we blow them away with an offer that wouldn’t be good for us.
Um, Percy?!
The Seahawks have traded with the Vikings with the two current front offices in employment.
No. Not at all.
In ’14 the Vikings traded up from the second round and gave the Seahawks a 4th round pick. Vikings took Teddy Bridgewater with their first round pick. Seahawks took P-Rich with the Vikings 2nd rounder and C. Marsh with the 4th round pick.
In ’19 the Vikings moved up 6 spots in the 4th round to draft Dru Samia. The Vikings gave the Seahawks their 4th round pick and a 6th round pick.
They’ll do major traded together (Harvin, Percy) and minor trades (see above) so I don’t buy that argument.
You are correct sir. It is why I thought a Yannick Ngakoue trade was a strong possibility.
Many were poo pooing it…. then he was dealt to birds of a different color.
Keep an eye on their roster however, Seattle may yet bring someone in off the Vikings team.
Specifically watch for DE Ifeadi Odenigbo or DT Shamar Stephen possibly being dealt.
You don’t get to pat yourself on the back. This was a ridiculous trade for Minnesota and their actions over the last few months make no sense.
?
Charlie clearly indicated that Ngakoue trade was a possibility. You replied (to Charlie and others) that that was nonsense. It may have been a dumb move by Minn, but others had the opinion that it was possible and they were right.
I happily admitted I was completely wrong when it happened.
However, the trade was absolutely ridiculous from Minnesota. It made absolutely no sense to trade for a player, then dump him for much less six weeks later.
Projecting that made no sense either. Being right in this regard is more luck than judgement.
I agreed with you when you said it wasn’t going to happen, and was likewise surprised when it did. Vikings leadership decided it made sense for them to trade him and take a loss. Others (charlie) apparently felt the same way. Not fair to discount it as lucky because you didn’t see it coming.
I guess none of that stuff really registered with me. We got screwed on that Percy deal, the rest were kind of whatever. But yea I see what people are saying.
Parsing Russ’s press conference today, I could be wrong, but reading between the lines, AB seems inevitable.
Agreed
Yes, and per my eye, I did not see Russ agitated or irritatedly regarding the questions about AB (good questions I may add). I saw that he answered within his beliefs of forgiveness. Though I would not be as forgiving as him, I would not condemn Russ for his views.
Did you watch the right interview?
Because he was very clearly agitated and uncomfortable.
He also did not answer the questions directly either.
https://nfltraderumors.co/trade-rumors-eagles-giants-washington/
I still don’t see how Kyler Fackrell could stay with the worthless Giants if someone offered them a bag of chips for him. He and Dunlap on third and long situations could make this team a Super Bowl favorite, not just a contender. They wouldn’t be one of the better duos in the NFL, but that’s not the point. The point is the rest of the team is so good and this unit could do enough not to totally sabatoge the season.
would love to see tate back.
If all you guys are right about RW wanting AB so badly, the question is why does he?
Seahawks have the 2nd worst 3rd down conversion percentage this season, only ahead of the Jets.
AB will help in that department, and many more.
Can’t shake the feeling the seahawks offense is a bit of a “glass cannon”… if lockett or metcalf get injured we are really screwed. Even if David Moore goes out I would feel really shaky about wide receiver 3. Brown may not improve our offense immediately but he at least provides depth for a postseason run.
Most of Gordon’s last season catches were 3rd down conversions. He can help in that department with a fraction of the drama. And he would actually be OK with 3-4 targets a game. Where AB would want the ball more often (to rebuild his resume and profile for a bigger check next year) or he would pout.
This
Personally, I’m not looking for morality from sports teams and I think it is a fool’s errand, with no one team having any sort of moral high ground over another.
I’d prefer Josh Gordon be reinstated, and that be the three-headed when they go with 3WR. But Brown will equally stress teams when figuring out where to stick CB3.
Charley Casserly says the Seahawks should trade a fifth for Carlos Dunlap:
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-trade-deadline-buyers-sellers-for-four-intriguing-targets
I am game. I doubt the Bengals will be for that Price. Mike Brown will probably ask for a first rounder, a vintage Aston Martin and some actual magic beans.
It’s not even a R5 straight up in his proposal, but a flip for a R6 with a condition:
This is probably where it gets dangerous near the trade deadline. Do you try and be a little aggressive, pay a little more than you might like to, in order to secure your guy? Or do you stick to what might be widely considered a fair price but risk losing out? And every team out there surely must know how desperate we are, right?
Why would they think the Hawks are desperate when Stephen Sullivan is being moved to DE where he was ‘really good in high school,’?
.
.
.
.
OK, I’m done being a smart ass for today.
.
.
.
Yes, please trade for Dunlop, or Kerrigan, or someone, anyone that has some speed off the edge. Please.
And I think your point about desperation is a good one. Other teams are likely to take into account the desperate two firsts, a third and McDougald for Adams move and hold out for a higher price from Seattle as they’ve shown the NFL they will overpay.
I would snap their hands off for that trade.
Charley, project it into reality.
Ngakoue would’ve had a cheaper cap hit than the almost 32 year old Dunlap
SIGH
That’d be pretty great if we got Dunlap and a (early) 6th for our (late) 5th. I don’t see it happening, but I’d like it to. The DL would still suck, but it wouldn’t suck as bad as it does now.
Jamal Adams didn’t practice today. Not looking good.
Saw that coming in mile away. At least 2 more weeks in my opinion.
I’d rather have Bradley McDougald and the draft ammo to trade for a good pass rusher. But Adams can encourage the team with his motivational tweets! From the sidelines.
Rah rah!
Well, the general fan base attitude towards Brown has gone south since Wilson’s fairly lousy interview.
Rob, do you think the backlash we’ve seen so far on social media is enough to make the front office think twice?
Not sure
ANTONIO BROWN, THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING FOR THE SPORTS TALK NATION
oops, typing in caps… but you get the point…. already tired of hearing about him, which means Seattle will sing him LOLOLOLOLOL 😉
Daniel Jones can’t stay upright.
https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1319464628468867073
I don’t think he’s a long term solution for the giants.
Rob, you mentioned sit downs with GMs such as JS….. how many GMs (besides JJ) routinely talk to the media about anything remotely relevant? Only when something truly egregious happens, do we ever hear a peep out of them during the season, unless they are the HC/GM dual hat type…. or someone is getting fired.
I’ve listen to JS interviews during the offseason from time to time and he provides some insights, but the reporters toss a ton of softballs at him, so as you correctly surmised, what would be the point during the season with similar “soft” questions tossed his way. Complete waste of the GM, reporter and listener/viewers time imo.
I actually wish Jody Allen would give a press conference once every 3-4 months, she is someone I have no feel for what she wants from the team, what is important to her (ownership) and what the “vision” is for the team. Everything else flows out of these guiding principles.
Steve Keim did “Keim Time” with Doug and Wolf every Wednesday morning when I lived in Phx a couple years ago. Not sad here if he still does but I liked it when he did.
Plenty of GM’s talk regularly.
Beane in Buffalo only this week spoke about the Quinton Spain cutting.
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I’m with Steven A. on AB to the Hawks.
Gordon reinstatement is all they need, not the media circus that will follow AB. I like the thought of putting it all on Russ to manage, but want cap used only on pass rush.
Based on today’s presser, sounds like a done deal though.
Was hoping for an Eagles loss so they might be open to trade. Comeback puts them back in 1st. So much for that.
Giants lost and should be easier to get Kyler Fackrell from a 1-6 team. lol
The giants aren’t as hesitant as the bengals but still aren’t big on trades… two bad as both have assets we could use. Would love to see Sackwell in a Hawks uni.
This was a name that I kept floating out there during the offseason. Just another name that i do not understand why the hawks didn’t move towards.
I watched a little bit of the game tonight. It made me thankful to be a Seahawks fan and very thankful we have Russ.
It made me very glad we have both of these teams still on the schedule.
Normally, I would think Antonio Brown is absolutely the last vet I would bring into the Seahawks’ WR room to influence the impressionable 22-year-old DK Metcalf and rookie Freddie Swain. So why are the Seahawks go this road? If Antonio Brown has been getting treatment and counseling to get his life together that is great. Maybe the Seahawks are privy to private information of that manner. Of course, that is pure speculation on my part and we will probably never know even if it is true.
What is giving the Seahawks confidence to pursue Antonio Brown? They won’t even consider bringing back Earl Thomas. So they must consider team culture and locker room cohesion important. This is a risky move. To me, the Cons outnumber the Pros and I would say thanks, but no thanks.
Correction: So why are the Seahawks going down this road?
I need to proofread my post better.
PC had arthroscopic surgery on his knee last Tuesday. Will this affect his signature swagger (top hat and eye glass version)? Forget questions about the defense next presser, THIS is what we really need to know…
Something else that he can be asked about rather than why the freak is the d-line such shit and what happened to the #1 offseason priority was fixing the pass rush.
Something that I’d forgotten and I guess was easy to forget all considered…
But Antonio Brown was #2 in the NFL’s top 100 players in 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVl5ZEHIbzs
And then he made #1 on the NFL’s top 100 craziest players in 2019!
And tied for #1 on the NFL’s worst locker room cancers list. Tied with Earl Thomas.
And how many years were we able to successfully manage ET?
There have been some analysts writing about what a great job the Pittsburgh coach did managing both AB and Le’Veon for 4 years. Think about PC managing Earl, Michael Bennett and Sherman. Both coaches also had a good sense of when it was time to move on.
Exactly. I don’t get why people say Earl Thomas is a cancer and no one wants to touch him and then say Brown is a viable option. They are both cancers. Don’t want either one.
And the answer from Wilson was BS. The Patriots with Tom Brady and greatest coach in the history of the NFL couldn’t make the Brown experience work. It’s hubris to think the Seahawks, Pete, and Russell will. If Russell wants AB then fine. But he needs to drop his family man schtick. It’s all about winning at that point.
Personally, I think it’s foolish for Russell to put his public credibility (including as a very public, part owner of the sounders among other things) on the line for AB of all people.
Human nature. The grass is always greener on the other side. We got a front row seat for ET’s antics.
AB was half the country and a conference away from Seattle.
Sure. But when the circus comes to your town it’s still the same circus. Geography doesn’t change the nature of someone.
After watching last night’s game I am shocked about how many terrible teams there are in the NFL in 2020. What happened to parity? What happened to , “On any given Sunday?” On the one hand, as a Seattle fan I can say, “We still have 4 poor teams on our schedule and 5 wins in the bank. Hello playoffs.” But as a football fan, I don’t enjoy watching two bad teams play each other.
That’s been a common refrain after a Thursday night clunker since it’s started. The NFL can’t or won’t gut its 10am and 1pm Sunday slots for prime time matchups every week. So that means we get to see some dreck on Thursdays pretty regularly.
There is some dreck on Sundays too! There were 9 teams with 2 win after 6 weeks. And the only reason some of those teams don’t have worse records is that they play each other. It will be very interesting to see the combined record of the 4 NFC East teams against non-divisional opponents at the end of the season. 5-34-1 maybe?
I meant 1 win. Dang fat fingers on my I-phone 🙂
It also makes it harder to judge some teams. The Rams are 4-0 against the NFC East and 0-2 against other teams. Are they really a good team or a 6-10 team that ends up up 10-6 because of all the cupcakes?
Honestly Steve that’s not much worse than any other recent season. Maybe we’re just focusing on it more this year?
You may be right cha. I thought 9 teams with 1 win after 6 weeks was historically bad but maybe in 2020 everything seems historically bad 🙂 Except Russ and the Seahawks offense!
I wouldn’t go thumbing my nose at other teams just yet.
We needed a 4th & inches stop against a team that had run for 200+, followed by a 94 yard, two minute drive, in the rain that also needed to convert two 4th downs… to beat a one win team.
We needed a goal to go (one yard) stop against Cam Newton, who we really hadn’t stopped all night… to beat a 2 win Pats team.
We’ve won one game by more than a single score and it was a Falcon team that started 0-5 and fired their coach. We could easily be 3-2.
I’d say ‘any given Sunday’ is alive and well. The Chargers almost beat the Saints AND the Chiefs. The Raiders did beat the Chiefs. There is only one, truly pitiful team, completely void of talent, leadership and coaching. It’s the Jets. The line on their game with KC in two weeks will likely be one of the biggest point spreads (20+?) for an NFL game.
Rob, do you agree with this logic?
The NFL contenders are starting an arms race. The Hawks need to keep pace by adding AB to match up with Chiefs (Adding Bell) and Ravens (Adding Yannick). The biggest reactions to this signing appears to be Seattle fans. Other teams have all mentioned that the Hawks would be downright frightening if AB signed. How the heck could you stop Carson, Russ, DK, Lockett, Olsen/Dissly, AB?? AB would be like adding nitro to the mix. Just gotta be sure the car is strong enough to handle it.
I agree, I think an arms race is developing with a handful of key teams trying to improve before the deadline kicks in and it’s harder to make moves.
People keep asking why PC/JS would even consider Antonio Brown.
I think the answer is quite simple. They know the defense and DL in particular flat out suck and can’t really be fixed this season at this point. So the only alternative if you want to give yourself a shot is to play to your strength and try to outscore everyone. AB is clearly a jerk but with him Russ has the best receiving group in the NFL. That is the only reason Russ wants him and that PC/JS are considering it IMO.
Logically that makes perfect sense. But logically it could blow up their locker room and on top of that the possibility exists that he could poison DK and Swain (no chance he poisons Tyler). Also logically the pass rush and thus the defensive problems could’ve been addressed in the offseason making the risk of AB unnecessary. Since that didn’t happen tho here we are.
I am curious what it would take to reverse the overwhelming narrative that the Seattle defense, and particularly the defensive line, sucks? How do we evaluate whether they are improving if we don’t use POOF grades?
For instance, the D-line had 3 sacks against Minnesota. I saw that as a sign of improvement. Collier has shown improvement over his 5 starts and got his first sack. They reduced Mayowa’s reps and he still looked like he was playing at full strength late in the game.
I’ll take a game with less than 400 yards conceded as a start.
Ditto
I tend to focus on points allowed as the measure of effective team defense. I’d like to see the trend away from games where the opponent is scoring 30 and we are out scoring them.
Two biggest things I want to see are 1. Less yards conceded and 2. More third down stops.
Of course giving up a bunch less yards each game would be a huge improvement, but as you said Cap’n, getting off the field on 3rd downs more consistently might be even more important!
how about some 3 and outs. that would be nice. or a few more stops when its 3rd and long
I am reluctantly for the AB signing at this point. Many disagree but I think our locker room is perfect for him. He has an elite QB who he actually respects and likes. He has DK and Lockett already on the team so he doesn’t have to be the only good WR on the team, and here’s hoping he’s had a serious growing up and reality check this last year.
We all know he is a cocky type dude but if there’s ANY chance he’s close to being the same incredible player on the field this could actually put us in a position to go deep this year. Strangely I think this is the move we need and I think he realizes this is the best place for him to resurrect some semblance of hope for future HOF status….if Russ has his back and he plays legit. I think he’s the type of player that can actually be really good even into his mid 30’s as well.
Glass half full guy alert.
Thoughts from anyone on this trade proposal? Personally not sure trading Poona and/or Diggs makes good sense, but acquiring Aldon Smith and a draft pick might be worth it!!
https://12thmanrising.com/2020/10/23/seahawks-trade-aldon-smith/
That blog is rubbish. I read it when I want a laugh. Last week they posted the Hawks are better off without Clowney this year.
I mentioned this idea here a while back but Rob thought it was unlikely Dallas would trade him. Maybe the injury to Dak has changed the perception in Dallas that they can contend for the division…
I saw an article recently speculating on a San Francisco trade to reunite Aldon with the Niners.
In general, I think it is far more likely that Seattle adds guy in the last year of his deal that has relatively low salary cap cost and trade cost than they add a guy with a significant cap hit in 2021; especially if it will cost a 2nd.
I like the idea of trading for Smith. I hate that trade though. Diggs and Ford for a 5th and Smith doesn’t seem like fair compensation. First, we don’t know if Ryan Neal is actually ready to take over for Diggs. I know Diggs is having a rough season but still….too much to ask right away. Unless they are high on Randall stepping up then maybe. Ford seems like a wasted throw in for no reason, then you are relying on Snacks who hasn’t played football or been through a conditioning program to come in a compete right away. Yes I know Mone would step up into the starting role but again we need depth at the DT position.
All good points for sure, but I wouldn’t mind having Smith in a Hawks uniform for the remainder of the year! Amazing how a guy who’s been completely out of football for several years is still probably better than the players we have now!