As we run through the running back class, here’s a reminder of the players we’ve looked at so far:
Damien Harris (Alabama)
Kerryon Johnson (Auburn)
Nick Chubb (Georgia)
Derrius Guice (LSU)
Here’s a post with further notes on Harris and Johnson
USC’s Ronald Jones II isn’t like the four names above. This was the first time I’d had a chance to properly study him and it’s impossible not to be extremely impressed. I wouldn’t argue with anyone who believed he was the second best eligible running back (behind Saquon Barkley).
There’s something to consider before we look at why he’s an exciting prospect. He’s listed at 6-0 and 200lbs. That would be a move away from Seattle’s preferred physical profile.
Here are the running backs they’ve drafted since 2012:
Robert Turbin — 5-10, 222lbs
Spencer Ware — 5-10, 228lbs
Christine Michael — 5-10, 220lbs
C.J. Prosise — 6-0, 220lbs
Alex Collins — 5-10, 217lbs
Chris Carson — 6-0, 218lbs
This doesn’t exclude Jones from being an option for the Seahawks but it is something to consider. Taking him would be a departure from their recent drafting style.
You might argue that this preferred physical profile hasn’t brought about good results recently. Let’s not forget though that Seattle’s ‘preferred profile’ also includes Marshawn Lynch, Alex Collins is currently having a great time in Baltimore, Chris Carson looked really good before his injury, Spencer Ware has had success in Kansas City and none of Christine Michael’s issues were due to physical build or athleticism.
The Seahawks met with Jamaal Charles in the off-season. According to Ian Rapaport both parties had ‘strong mutual interest’. This suggests the Seahawks might be flexible in their approach to RB’s for the right player.
Jones is eerily similar to Charles. They have almost identical bodies. They’re 6-0 and 200lbs. Their running styles are very similar. USC offensive coordinator Tee Martin even made the comparison:
“He reminded me of Jamaal Charles of the Kansas City Chiefs. That type of skill set. Just a guy who runs and it’s easy for him. It doesn’t look like he’s working hard and he’s running by everyone.”
Jones himself has admitted he looks up to Charles.
Pro-comparisons are often lazy and serve only to create false expectations. With Jones, the comparison feels reasonable. And that’s why I wouldn’t rule out interest from the Seahawks even if he is a different body type. Who wouldn’t want someone like Charles?
We’ll see how accurate the comparison is by the combine. They look similar on tape but Charles ran an excellent 4.38 at the combine. I haven’t been able to find any workout information from the Nike combines but Jones reportedly clocked a 4.41 during recruiting. That’s the kind of time he needs. In terms of explosive qualities, Charles managed a 30.5 inch vertical and a 10-2 broad. He also had a 4.22 short shuttle. Those are the types of marks Jones needs to hit.
Let’s look at what he’s about.
Often a player with great speed isn’t a tough runner up the middle. That’s not the case here. Jones has tough runs dragging tacklers for extra yardage while keeping his legs moving. He might prove to be a little slower at the combine than Charles but he might be a more explosive tester.
For example, look at this:
Ronald Jones moving the pile pic.twitter.com/wr0RAfIt4y
— Bruce Matson (@BMatz08) December 2, 2017
That’s a 200lbs running back pushing the pile there, getting the absolute maximum out of that run. That’s not a weak defensive line he’s facing either. It’s Stanford.
He’s also capable of breaking tackles and fighting for extra yardage in the open field:
Ronald Jones II with this filthy "GET OFF ME" run to move to sixth on #USC's all-time rushing list, passing Mike Garrett. pic.twitter.com/a3OWFMsqhn
— Max Meyer (@TheMaxMeyer) November 11, 2017
The defender he throws off there is a linebacker playing up at the LOS. He turned a relatively routine first down conversion into a big 25-yard gain. Pure physicality, explosive power. Exciting.
Toughness and physicality isn’t just about running through tackles either. Damien Harris at Alabama is a highly competitive pass blocker. There’s some evidence that Jones is equally willing to put a hit on a pass rusher and protect the quarterback:
I love Ronald Jones. Watch him pass protect on this play. Elite outside zone runner and improved pass blocker. pic.twitter.com/7UdKg6rUnw
— Ian Wharton (@NFLFilmStudy) November 11, 2017
The next clip is my favourite play though:
A beast mode type of run by Ronald Jones. #USCvsASU #collegefootball pic.twitter.com/6269LIry9M
— College Football + (@CFBPlus) October 29, 2017
Pause the video after a single second and look at the screenshot. Jones is staring at a wall of bodies and the run appears destined to be stuffed. He somehow squirts through the scrum and with one cut takes out three defenders who overcommit to the left side. It’s such a sharp, sudden, nasty cut. Once he reaches the second level it’s over. He sprints away, untouched, for a huge touchdown.
It’s the perfect example of his ability to get skinny and find a running lane, show some physicality to fight through the initial pile and then explode thanks to one perfectly executed cut.
Clearly he isn’t ‘just’ a sprinter. He is extremely smooth and sudden as a runner though. He makes it look so effortless:
Ronald Jones makes it look so easy pic.twitter.com/i3f6ZR5syH
— Ian Wharton (@NFLFilmStudy) October 29, 2017
He bounces this run to the outside, sprints in-between a couple of defenders and takes it in for a big touchdown. Jones barely breaks stride, he just glides. This is why the Jamaal Charles comparisons carry some weight. Can’t you just imagine peak Jamaal making a play like that?
Here’s another example. This video reminds me a little bit of one of Adoree’ Jackson’s returns for USC. There’s virtually no room by the right sideline and somehow he cuts his way into space and finds a lane. It’s an incredible play that demands so much body control, speed and acceleration. The balance he shows to set up the blocks and max out such a tiny portion of space to make this long touchdown is incredible:
Ronald Jones showcases his speed on this 51-yard TD run pic.twitter.com/b3IGTxQBRY
— Bruce Matson (@BMatz08) December 2, 2017
How do you not get excited looking at a play like that?
Here’s another one:
Here’s another long touchdown run by “RoJo” Ronald Jones pic.twitter.com/kc5sT0NfGQ
— Bruce Matson (@BMatz08) December 2, 2017
It’s like he’s on ski’s — slaloming through traffic while remaining perfectly balanced and in control. When he sees the opportunity to get upfield he turns on the jets and just accelerates away from the defense. His ability to cut away from trouble and then go from 0-60 in a flash is highly impressive.
He’s not going to punish a team with up-the-middle running, wearing down an opponent and forcing them into fourth quarter submission. That’s not what you draft him to be. He’ll infuriate opponents in a different way — his ability to turn relatively mundane plays into huge gains. He’s able to find the edge and suddenly explode to a big gain. He sets up downfield blocks like a returner and he’s a really difficult out when he gets to the second level despite being only 200lbs.
If he declares for the draft, Jones is going to be in the conversation to be the second running back drafted. He’s a major talent, with an attitude and personality that just fits the position. He appears tough, both in the way he carries himself and the way he performs on the field.
There’s an X-factor about his game that is exciting.
For the year he had 1486 yards at 6.1 YPC. He had 19 total touchdowns.
It’ll be hard to separate the likes of Jones, Damien Harris and Kerryon Johnson if they all turn pro. They’re all very different runners with appealing traits.
Consider this as well. If Jones’ best comparison is Jamaal Charles — well Charles lasted until round three. Kerryon Johnson’s patience in the backfield is reminiscent of Le’Veon Bell (although there’s a big difference in size). Bell was a round two pick. How many Alabama running backs have lasted into round two over the years? Derrick Henry, T.J. Yeldon, Eddie Lacy. Kenyon Drake was a third rounder.
This looks a great year to consider spending a high pick on a running back. The Seahawks might have the luxury of being able to trade down before making it happen.
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Yes!!! This is the kid I’ve been touting for a few weeks now. If you pair him with Carson… look out. Also, completely off topic, caught like 5 minutes of this bowl game with Western Kentucky university and they had a wide receiver who made a nice play, (not super fast), but he got a nice gain after the catch. His name is Fant. Any relation?!
Yup. His cousin.
+1 he is the type of back I would like to see the Hawks take to team with Carson. He or Bryce Love are home run hitters that could have a real impact.
This is what I love about bowl season. A guy like Boise St LB Leighton Vander Esch (6’4, 242 lbs) emerges on your radar.
What a monster! Stat sheet stuffer as well.
How about that Arkansas State DT-Dee Liner? A recycled 4-star athlete & Alabama transfer.
Really enjoyed watching Vander Esch play today.
Weird how a guy like that seems to go unnoticed despite having all the tools apparently.
Got flagged in coberns metrics Vol. Was a beast today.
Sure. Hes fine .
I thought he played great too. Apparently consistently high production all year long too. NFL size for a SAM. Looks like he could be a three down player for a lot of different defensive schemes. Why this guy isn’t up at the top of a lot of prospects lists is a mystery to me.
If we could trade down and come up with a 3rd rounder, he would probably be a great pickup then.
I would expect trading back to get a day two to be a pretty strong likelihood.
John Schneider wanted Jamaal Charles in round 2 and was pisses when GB missed out on him IIRC.
You beat me to this.
Did anyone read that Andy Benoit piece on RW? Good lord that was garbage. Was to be expected coming from him though.
I loved LeCharles Bentley’s response to Benoit saying Russ has an unconventional style.
Bentley: His ‘unconventional’ style is called SURVIVAL….
Andy Benoit wants to be GM of the Matthew Stafford team that never wins a playoff game, but he looks better in pre-game throwing warm ups
he is an idiot if he says Russ has never been considered a top 10 QB before this year.
+100,000,000,000
I read it the other day, was going to post a comment and link, but decided to just let it go. It feels like a piece written to garnish attention. Maybe even a reason why not to write anything extensively after taking a bong hit, and then eating a frozen pizza.
IMO, if someone wants to write about how much they would rather have Matthew Stafford over Russell Wilson to start a franchise, they are certainly entitled to, but his argument was so unconvincing, it was fairly laughable, to be honest. You take Matthew, Andy, and have fun with that. I’ll be perfectly happy with having Russ every time over that, thank you very much.
Yeah it’s a surefire clickbait article, the Deadspin article on it s pure gold – https://deadspin.com/this-andy-benoit-take-about-russell-wilson-is-so-fuckin-1821290666
Especially for the unnecessary but so much deserved smackdown of Breer as well
“Benoit is the kind of football-knower who is too dumb to know how dumb he is, and it’s been astonishing to watch Peter King’s otherwise pleasant MMQB site become defined by the loaf-headed caveman takes of Benoit and his compadre in poorly veiled racial coding, Albert Breer.”
Read the Deadspin take, as well. Pretty much summed all my thoughts.
Andy Benoit is hard to take seriously.
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If i were playing in the #Colts #Bills game and got desperate, I’d come to the line of scrimmage with loose snow in both hands and throw it in my opponent’s face at the snap. NFL doesn’t have written rules against that….does it?
11:38 AM – 10 Dec 2017
Like I have said before, if there is a way to trade down and get a third, possibly trade back into round two, hopefully a Will Hernandez is available and Jones/Harris/Penny/love becomes your other back in the tandem, you’ve upgraded your in game instead of talking about it and adding the wrong players, (Lacey, Joeckel). Hernandez is a bully who can anchor against the bull rush, and he loves to move bodies in the run game. I like Jokes for his explosiveness and he’s not terrible at getting a few yards after contact. He’s dynamic and I want him to be a Hawk. Also, I’m going to keep beating this drum, a late round pick on Will disley really drives home the point, at the point of attack.
Eventually, they have to focus on other areas other than the O-line though. It’s one thing if they end up picking in the top-16 and get a shot at Nelson or Price. That’s a bit like Dallas taking Zack Martin. Trading down to go O-line again? Not sure that’s going to change the fortunes of this team much. Brown was the key trade. And for me the big issue with the running game now is the RB talent, not the O-line.
if Joeckel leaves, and I think they are too cap restricted to sign him, they still have 2 1st round and 2 2nd round picks starting on the O line. The team has other concerns to address. And the o line has improved, and should be even better next year. Based on the injuries to the D, I suspect the draft will be D heavy with a RB in the top 3 picks.
The point is they keep going for a certain type of lineman, and these guys aren’t actually very good. They are “athletic”, but they struggle. I mean, some of them don’t even know how to block someone. Soft, can’t figure out who to block, it has to be partly to blame on the system and coaching. Who on the roster right this moment is someone you don’t have to worry about? Two? Brown can do his job at a high level and you don’t worry about it. Britt isn’t a superb player, he’s just solid, so he’s another veteran who can hold his own. The rest of them have huge question marks. I get it. We have used picks on the line. Now it’s time to take some players who can actually perform. Potential is a four letter word in scouting circles. Glow, Odhiambo, Fant, Ifedi, Pocic, they all have some type of glaring deficiency. We definitely need better running back talent. That’s a huge given. But it’s not the amount of bodies they have on the line, it’s the fact that they can’t pick the correct ones and they certainly don’t know how to develop them properly.
Pocic is a slight departure: Less TEF, more experience, better fundamentals, system smart, versatile, smart. Lower ceiling, higher floor.
Yes, but he’s not as strong as you’d expect an interior lineman from the SEC to be. He’s got a lot of work to do in that regard. He does show flashes as a rookie, though.
With Glowinski waived, another OL will be needed.
I would love a combo of Hernandez and Jones. Add those two with Carson, Davis and Prosie or Mckissic and an ever improving OL with Hernandez replacing Joeckel and I would feel real good going into next season about the run game and OL going forward!
Jones doesn’t look 200 lbs on tape. I’ll be interested what he weighs at the combine. Looks bigger.
The more I think about next draft, the more I’m convinced that they need to go defense heavy. Here are the probowlers they need to replace in the next 2-3 years-
Avril
Sherman
Bennett
Kam
Wagner
Wright
Considering that new players need 1-2 years to get Seattle’s scheme, they need to go defense heavy now.
They can always pick up a FA RB on the cheap, tag Graham & let PRich leave. They have in 8 yrs never drafted & developed a RB. Why roll the dice on a high pick now when you have more pressing needs on defense? Why not add a late round RB or cheap FA to compete with Davis or Carson?
Also, the fact that they released Glo seems to indicate They think Pocic is doing well. That solidified the Oline with Fant coming back. They just need a couple cheap FA or late rounders to fill left guard. Or Jordan Roos.
Overall, the offense seems young & growing together. I think the defense is destined to fall off the cliff next year to bottom 5-10 with father time & injuries.
‘They can always pick up a FA RB on the cheap’
Like… Eddie Lacy for example?
There’s no doubting the defense, over time, is going to need some fresh blood. But you’ve listed Bobby Wagner as a player who will need replacing in 2-3 years. He’s 27. They were able to add Avril, Bennett and Chris Clemons without the need for early picks. Sherman has time, I believe. His game was never predicated on speed. McDougald is doing very well spelling Kam and they’ve already drafted Delano Hill too.
Seattle’s running game is a disaster zone and deserves more consideration than merely ‘just add any old RB on the cheap’.
Yes Lacy failed but there’s going to be misses. It’s like saying never draft a RB high because Michael was a miss. A stud RB is a luxury at this point. We need more meat & potatoes. LBs & safety’s & Leo.
In two years, Wagner would have played for 8 years. His physical style is not going to hold for longer. I hope he is an exception but I would want a good back up at the least.
I like they drafted Hill. Let’s see next year if he is he next Kam or the next Dion Bailey. McDougald will be a great resign if they can afford him.
I just think the defense needs heavy infusion of young talent.
I don’t think it’s a case of never trying to sign a free agent RB. The point I was making is — the Seahawks have just tried what you’ve proposed here and it’s failed, badly. The thought of going down that road again on another cheapish FA running back isn’t particularly appealing given the importance of Seattle’s running game. A stud RB is very much not a luxury for Seattle. I find it hard to imagine how anyone can watch Seattle’s run attack this year and think it’s a situation where by Seattle can ‘just get by’.
As for linebacker’s and safety’s — they have Bobby Wagner, K.J. Wright, Earl Thomas and one of Kam or McDougald potentially. I struggle to see how this is a more concerning need than RB.
It doesn’t seem like the issue is that they can’t get a good RB late. Carson & Rawls have at times excelled in this scheme. They problem is that they haven’t stayed healthy. Outside of Seattle, Ware & Collins have excelled. All of the above are late round RBs. You are not solving that problem of RB health with a high draft pick. They just need to get lucky & get a RB who stays healthy.
As for the players you mentioned, next year might be last year for Wright. Wagner has a lot of wear & tear aka Lynch & I can see him declining next year. Kam might be done & we might be priced out if McDougald. WLB is manned by Wilhputte who the 49ers cut. Avril will likely retire. Bennett is getting up there in age.
You generally get your best production from young RB’s. I would always peer a first contract running back over a second contract running back. So draft pick would for sure be my vote.
Well, Seattle’s best ever running back, one of their best ever players, who has been as durable as any player despite playing with the maximum physicality, is a player taken with the 12th pick in 2007.
Your argument loses weight when you start talking about Bobby Wagner as nearing the end of his career. People spent three years trying to retire Michael Bennett. I guess now they’ve started on Wagner. Sigh.
The Seahawks need to repair their running game as an absolute priority. Pete knows that. This isn’t going to be a situation where they throw $2m on a free agent running back.
Why is it that fans and football experts could see the Lacey and Joeckel signings as probable failures from the beginning, but the Seahawks could not? That’s $12 million this season on two non-impactful players who were either washed up, or a Never was? Hell, Cheeseburger Eddie needed added incentives to show up to camp not looking like a guard. They seem to be throwing darts sometimes. Saving around $10 million next season for a guard and running back replacement is a no-brainer. If they are going to sign a free agent, at least make sure that they are still productive players who actually add to your talent level.
I’ve enjoyed watching Jones play for quite a while now. He hasn’t been a huge consideration for me for Seattle because of the size, but how many 5-11 quarterbacks did Pete Carroll coach before Russell Wilson? Seattle has been spending a lot of time watching Trojan football. It wouldn’t totally shock me if Jones is who they really like. Jones mixed with Carson could be a lot of fun to watch.
Have you, or anybody else, seen Notre Dame’s Josh Adams play much? His highlights look incredible, but I wonder if those are the exception rather than the rule for his normal level of play. Thanks.
I’ve seen him a bit. There’s been some really nice play. I gotta admit, CJ Prosise has soured me to such an extreme extent, I haven’t put much time thus far looking at another Golden Domer back this year, or paid that much attention to the Irish. Especially with some of these SEC backs, and being an almost religious fan of PAC 12 football. I need to get around to looking more into Adams. I will say that Adams has had great fortune running behind maybe the best line in CFB.
Also on that note, I’ll be disappointed if they extended Sherman. He needs to be cut/traded this offseason. Even if he recovers & comes back to 80 percent of what he did this year, he is no way worth $14M.
I have a bad feeling that PC is going to extend him for top dollars for being a core player. This is probably going to end the Lynch, Kam (& to some extent Bennett though it’s too early to say) way. I hop it ended the Red Bryant, Chris Clemons or Mebane way. But I have a bad feeling they are going to extend him where it makes it impossible to cut him & then he is going to be hit with father time.
Sherman will play out the final year of his contract and it’ll go from there. He’ll have no trade value given his injury and cutting one of the best CB’s in the league makes little sense. Keep him, assess the situation in 12 months.
Yes that might be the best possible scenario unless they want to use the 11M for any other FA. I really hope they don’t extend him for more than 6-8M. And even that only towards the end of next year after he comes back from injury.
Absolutely. He’s motivated to come back with a vengeance and earn one more really nice contract. I can almost see him killing his rehab and focused like he’s never been before. You gain almost nothing by cutting him now.
Yes that might be the best possible scenario unless they want to use the 11M for any other FA. I really hope they don’t extend him for more than 6-8M. And even that only towards the end of next year after he comes back from injury.
Meant to reply above.
why would Sherman resign for $6-8 mil per year if he comes back and is back to form? They offered to trade him this year so he does not have to be loyal. He understands it is a business, which it is.
I am not against the Hawks not resigning Sherman if they get another good young CB next year, but shut down corners like Sherman are not easy to find. He can play at least 2 or 3 more years at a pro bowl level, not sure a rookie can offer that
new year, same Chargers, get close and then choke.
Marcus Peters makes more business decisions than any other CB. He got credit on a fumble when he was trying to let someone else make the tackle. Gordon tried to hurdle over him, but he couldn’t because Peters was getting out of the way. He gets pics, but gives up big plays and cannot tackle to save his life, NOT in the same class as Sherman. Maybe a better athlete, but not a better player
For argument sakes let’s say we don’t make the playoffs and end up selecting between 18-20. Is it an automatic trade bavk.no matter who is available due to lack of 2nd and 3rd rounders or is there a specific player you want to draft?
For me it’s not an automatic trade back. That said there’s no one player I’m super into yet this draft season. I take that back. Bradley Chubb and I’m almost certain he’s a top 5 lock.
The trade back thing for me is strange because basic economics, if the partner in the trade has half a clue should dictate that you could seriously offer Seattle say a 2nd and yet another fifth rounder to move up as little as 7 spots or thereabouts since Seattle decided (probably for the best, but who knows) to hollow out the middle of its own draft.
That said Rob made an interesting point on the last podcast with Kenneth Arthur and he alluded to Seattle ultimately being fine with giving up a second and a third for the draft as that this year’s draft “feels,” down across the board.
The thing about how this year’s draft goes, however, is if they lose S.Richardson than more than likely he’ll net a third the following year, which is good, not great, but I’ll call it a wash.
With that said I’ll bet there are a lot of old time posters here that are pretty stoked to see Seattle’s Oline gel and that I for one am intrigued to see what kind of damage Seattle can do next year with a line that is 4/5ths solidified at the start of camp and not how it usually is going into camp.
And I’m personally stoked to not have to talk Oline men for the 7th straight offseason. Not that Seattle won’t draft one or more and honestly they should for depth, but I’m personally not giving it a single thought this year!
Well said Peter. For me its a trade back as well. Even though the draft might not be as deep as it was last year you dont want to have to wait from the first round all the way to the fourth. If we lose to both the rams and Cowboys and finish say 9-7 we might even be picking in the mid teens. Trading back could net you quite a bit more.
I haven’t gone through and watched them all yet, but as I’m compiling my list to look into, it has already become clear to me that there are going to be quite a few very interesting interior lineman available in this draft. Several guys who were Tackles in college but will move to Guard in the pros.
IMO Seattle would be wise to take advantage and grab one, even if it’s not with their first pick. You might find a legit R2 OL talent slipping available in late R3 just because there are so many this year.
And if they want to roll with Joeckel or Odhi at LG, they could look to just grab a project instead with one of their R4/R5 picks. Anyone looked at W. Michigan OT Chukwuma Okorafor yet? Or USC Nicholas Falah, ASU Sam Jones, Hawaii Dejon Allen?
Nico Falah is undersized (280), but I’ve only read good things about him: intelligent, strong, athletic, nasty, outstanding vision and wherewithal. Doesn’t allow penetration even against bigger DTs and consistently opens running lanes in the middle of the defense. One article I read on him ended with this cool anecdote:
“Last game, against Arizona, Falah lost his helmet in a skirmish on the line. By rule, Falah was required to sit out one play unless the Trojans burned a timeout. The Trojans burned a timeout.”
Can someone please explain why Myles Gaskin isn’t in the conversation? No, this isn’t just a homer attitude. Gaskin is 5’10”, 192 lbs., and runs a 4.45 forty. I don’t know his explosion numbers but it’s a pleasure to watch his patience, intelligence, elusiveness, and pure feel for the game. The more I compare him to these other performers the more I think he’s going to do very well in the pros. So tell me what’s wrong with Gaskin?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Gaskin. For the Seahawks all there is to go after is that they prefer players 30 pounds heavier as silly as that may be, there have been a few things such as that, that Seattle adheres to pretty firmly.
Currently, for RB’s it’s 5’11” 220 lbs. the better you’re explosive testing numbers are: vertical jump, broad jump the better,
The worry I think most teams year t year have with a guy like Gaskin and frankly I would to is that size still works in college because there is so much variance week to week with players sizes, strengths, etc. But the immediate concern simply is how would a player like that handle the jump up physically to the pros.
Realistically I think he’s a UDFA. “small,” by the NFL and currently not more or less explosive than the next guy.
I want to see a comparison of Gaskin, Love and Jones. They all fall into the small and quick running back category. They all have some elements of power and slipperiness. But mostly they have speed and a nice burst through the hole.
Seahawks have set precedent for a smaller back when they paid a very high price for Percy Harvin. Who they used primarily as a running back or receiver near the line of scrimmage. Weren’t they willing to give up a first rounder for him??
But that’s because Harvin was a special player right? No one’s going to compare Gaskin, a good but not extraordinary player, to Harvin and that’s why due to his size, Gaskin might not be highly rated coming out of college.
I wonder if Seattle’s running back problem stems from trying to replace Marshawn Lynch with a Lynch clone. Their overriding philosophy is to find a unique talent and build on that strength, an approach they don’t seem to be following in choosing a running back.
I don’t think a Marshawn clone exists. They want tough running backs with a certain style with explosive qualities. But that’s not unusual. A lot of teams want that.
Jones could be the next Jamaal Charles, but he could also be the next Reggie Bush. Who obviously did not do that well in the NFL. I understand why everyone wants a running back early, because it is a need, but I still feel O-line is the bigger need for two reasons. One we cant keep putting Wilson behind that garbage, he will eventually get hurt and then we will be in a serious hurt locker. Two, unless there is another Barry Sanders out there, no running back will run good behind our line. Our line was much better when Lynch was in his heyday. We need a serious run blocking left guard to build a dominate left side of our line. We can find a speedster type to go with Carson in the fourth or even fifth.
I feel like im just repeating stuff others have said here but…
“One we cant keep putting Wilson behind that garbage, he will eventually get hurt and then we will be in a serious hurt locker” You mean that top 10 ranked pass pro garbage?
“no running back will run good behind our line.” You mean other than Carson and Davis?
“Our line was much better when Lynch was in his heyday” Was it really though? I remember most his trademark runs including several broken tackles and a fair bit of Russel scrambling in those days too
Im not saying im entirely against going OLine again if the right player comes up but its not the need it has been in the past. And if theres better value at RB or Edge (there will be) id much prefer we did that.
I think people have seriously warped and unrealistic expectations on how well a NFL offensive line can perform.
The offensive line has been playing much better lately. Brown has settled things. Ifedi has improved on the right, and Pocic has not been terrible this season, just could stand to build up his strength a bit in the offseason. I think it could be pretty likely Joekel is extended. If so, that’s 3 first round picks and 2 second picks making the starting unit in another year playing and growing together, thus building cohesion. IMO, pretty compelling.
If they didn’t go RB early, for whatever reason, I would almost rather see them do DL or LB over OL. My hunch is the RB is the safest bet.
No “H” early in the season our offense consisted of Wilson dropping back and running for his life. It has improved in pass pro since Brown has come, yes but in case you haven’t noticed we do not have a running game to save our lives. Do you really think it is because our running backs cant play? Why then do our running backs have to consistently lead the league in YAC to have any success. Because our O-Line can not block. If you want to improve every aspect of our team it resides in O-Line not running back. I for one do not feel comfortable having Russel make up our ground game on a yearly basis. I have nightmares about the hit Taylor put on Theismann. Get us an o-line that can allow for a running game and we will be back in Superbowl form.
The notion of relying on a running back to make spectacular plays on a game to game basis to keep chains moving and the offense going, is to me the very definition of unrealistic expectations. Not even Prime Lynch would perform behind this line right now. Give me a break
It’s really both, M12. And the Hawks have already done a lot in the last 2 years to stabilize that line:
– Paid to retain Britt
– R1 Ifedi
– R2+R3+salary of Brown
– R2 Pocic
– Paid to bring in Joeckel
– R3 Odhiambo
They clearly realized the plan wasn’t working and shifted their approach. They spent big bucks where they hadn’t before. They even changed the profile they insisted on looking for to sacrifice a bit of TEFness for a bit more technique on the interior.
There comes a point when there just isn’t much sense in throwing more high draft capital or cap space at the group. They’re still very young, and you just have to let them continue to grow individually and collectively to form that chemistry. That lineup has only played together for 2 games now, and they are already top 10 in pass pro. A couple months ago we were on our knees begging for just league average play, and now they’ve exceeded that. RW doesn’t have to run to save his life anymore (how long it will take him to realize that and adjust his habits, we don’t know). The point is, they are playing at a high level after just 2 games, imagine what a more games and the whole offseason together could do for them.
One rookie draft pick, even a high one, is not going to magically transform this group into a good run-blocking unit. Let Joeckel get his legs back under him and see how he looks, let Odhi get his fingers healed up and log some snaps next to Brown, and let’s see how far this group can go.
As for RB, it’s true that Alex Gibbs and Tom Cable say any back can run in their system as long as they are decisive on their third step, choose a hole, hit it hard, and live with the results. Then, after they get past the first level, it is all on them to be creative and make guys miss, etc. Any back can do it, but not any back can do it as well as one with superior instincts and outstanding athletic traits. Those guys go early.
If you want to take pressure off of Wilson, put a guy on the field behind him that absorbs the defense’s attention, like Rob has been saying. Not someone who is just ok and gets the job done, but someone you can feature and they have to worry about all game long and gameplan against.
If you review the game tape, I guarantee you will find plenty of plays that were blocked well enough to keep moving the chains with the ground game, but the RBs either don’t have the vision to see it or the burst to hit it fast enough. We simply have to address that early.
And for the record, prime Lynch would do more than fine behind this line. He’s the reason we got away for so long with having a cheap OL. People forget fast…
Very well stated, Sea Mode.
I definitely think RB has been the issue over OL. Carson and Davis have each found success, Davis two weeks in the row against premier defenses. Thomas Rawls and Eddie Lacy have been absolute failures. CJ Prosise was never able to get going on any level due to injury. JD McKissic, a converted WR, has even found some success.
The problem is that the backs either haven’t been able to withstand serious injury (Carson and Prosise), or have lacked explosiveness (Lacy), and or patience (Rawls). Seattle doesn’t need the next Marshawn Lynch, IMO. Seattle needs an athletic, reliable, durable back that it can feature. IMO, if that back is available in this draft, they gotta go get him.
Im not sure I agree that the run blocking is that bad, (because again Davis isnt some Barry Sanders, or even Lynch, and yet he has managed to get pretty decent production behind this line) And yes, the pass pro is actually pretty darn good now so I really dont see how they deserve the “garbage” moniker you gave them. I think Rob has it right, that peoples expectation of what an Oline can realistically get done is a little inflated.
But even if none of that is true, what do you wanna do? Reach on another Lineman late in the first and have to deal with two seasons of a guy adjusting to the league again?
Id rather see what we can do with a really talented healthy back behind this group
+1
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. If you think our guys are pretty good I would then have to turn my attention to Cable, because this line is just not getting it done. There have been good linemen drafted in the late first and even later rounds that are capable, even Washington’s line when they plated us got it done. I honestly don’t understand why any of you guys are still defending this line. If they are athletic and capable then we need to get rid of this stupid zone blocking scheme because again they are just not getting results.
If you want to make an argument about all the draft capitol we have spent and eventually we have to move on, then OK that is a fair point. I just don’t agree that a running back is going to fix our problems, especially when running backs are always a play away form being hurt two times higher than any other position in football. there is a reason why are running backs are hurt, because they are taking the most abuse.
These are my thoughts and I appreciate yours, but don’t agree. Give me a line where you can plug in an average back and still be successful and I will be happy. By the way Alex Collins is not a generational talent and is having plenty of success for the Ravens. We need a better O-line
Why do the Hawks always start slow? I went back and was watching a couple of the past games and the slow start is why they primarily lost those games. When will Pete realize that our D isn’t as good as it used be and that they need to play 4th quarter type football from the start??
This has been one of my complaints too. I think it has to do with play calling and lay it on the coaches shoulders. They want to establish the run game – even when it is a complete failure like this year, But they will keep doing their three and outs for drive after drive. Need better play calling. And of course the injured blockers didn’t help.
After thinking about the Rams game quite a bit this game might be a race to 30. Im betting its going to be far from a 16-10 outcome. Might be more like a 31-27 type this time. This game is like the game last night. Chiefs versus Chargers. The Chiefs won the first game in LA and everyone had the Chargers winning this time around but the Chiefs took it to them. Same thing could happen today for the Hawks.
I am with you Greg the total is likely 50pts plus.
If Wags can play and be effective I think the Hawks have a good chance. If not the Rams by 10+
I probably agree with you. We can survive with out KJ but if we have no Bobby, Gurley might go crazy.
I’m not willing to give up on the new linebackers, but it will be an uphill battle on defense when you consider that the majority of tackles are at middle linebacker.
Does the wind and rain today make your nervous about at team so dependent on the pass game?
Way off topic. I heard a “would you rather ” yesterday that gave me a nightmare…lol. Would you rather sing the National Anthem in fto t of 70,000 people or spend 5 minutes in a room with a Cobra?
I’m going to go with national anthem. Everybody already knows I’m a terrible singer. It’ll actually be more for my enjoyment to see them writhe. The cobra is decidedly more deadly.
I would sing that anthem 10 out of 10 Times gladly, and I sing like Deion Sanders tackles.
I’ve actually got a serviceable set of pipes so ima skip the snek yall
Are the teams kneeling is the real question, though$
Poor Philly, I really feel for them. Even the Giants are hammering them at the moment.
As PC says… its not how you start, its how you finish?
Philly still putting up 21 first half points with their backup QB. That is a well coached team.
Per Bob Condotta, Bobby Wagner is moving through teams drills right now, and seems to be moving okay. Huge if he can go today, IMO.
He is officially listed as active.
Yes he is.
That is the best news all week! He is as important as Earl to this D and irreplaceable.
That’s only half the battle though, can he be effective.
HUGE. Way to go, Bobby.
Jones has a nice jump cut. That seems important for a rb to have in this zone scheme. Not to mention good vision which goes hand in hand with a jump cut. I wonder if schnieder can do a sign and trade with any of their upcoming free agents?
Wish Royce Freeman ran like jones does
If he did he would be dangerous, too soft though.
Aaron Rogers with 3 picks and under throwing receivers. I guess he is human with a bum shoulder. GB officially done after today but the Panthers are kind of scary.
That Thomas Davis hit on Adams was brutal!
Going to make this game against the Rams all the more important. Just when we really need A Rod to come through, he does this. Must really, really hate Seattle.
Glad I was wrong about them running the table.
No sense in resigning Jimmy Graham. I disliked Kearse but at least he worked hard and made an effort, he’s not worth 9 million we have Vannett and Wilson for cheap, far more worth it.
+1 a team can’t win big games in playoffs with soft inconsistent players!
This team is worse then the browns in the first half
This O-line is not good ya’ll. Sorry.
See what LeCharles Bentley was talking about?
+ 1 the Guard position is awful. That is why I think Joeckel can’t be a re-sign and that LG has to be considered if a guy like Nelson or Price is on the board.
You can’t run an offense without an OL.
How does this team even have 8 wins?
Time for a new special teams coach.
Speak of the bevell…his last game calling plays…i wish.
How does RW being sacked more than he has completions have anything to do with Bevs?
Playcalling absolutely factors into that, theres a reason the rams have a wide open receiver every play. Good coaching can scheme around things force success. That argument holds 0 weight in my eyes because your results are what matter. Darrell Bevell was the worst OC in the league last year. And the year before that in 2015 he was dreadful up until the point we started playing terrible teams. We need to cut loose. Theres too much evidence of success elsewhere not to try a new coordinator because Bevell just does not game plan well. He can design some great plays for long gains, but he is bad at moving the chains especially in the passing game. Theres a reason he’s never been offered an NFL head coaching job.
Also good coaches keep their teams consistent, Bevell does not. Blame the O line all you want but he calls plays that take too long to develop, he’s always had issues choosing the proper personal. We deserve to lose this game, and ever since 2014 we let the sore that came from that superbowl stick. We had 0 chance with Bevell because no one believed in him after that, and had they just fired him maybe the team wouldnt question the coaching staff as much. You can disagree all you want but clearly Richard Sherman thought so. And the results are in, it doesn’t matter how many garbage time points you put up, its far too difficult to come back from a 31-14 deficit. And lets be honest most of our offenses big successful plays are coming from Russell’s scrambling late in games against prevent and safe defenses, of course we come back. The reality of the situation is that this offense is poorly coached, Minnesota, well coached offense (down to their 3rd string QB who they got to turn around late in his career), LA well coached offense (you cant convince me jared Goff doesnt suck), Patriots perfectly coached on offense and defense, if the seahawks took the time to accurately self assess last season and fired bevell on the spot for the 6 games where the offense failed to score a TD we probably wouldn’t be in this situation, we’d probably be comfortably atop the NFC west at a bare minimum. And maybe our best defensive players wouldnt all be injured because teams can easily shut down our offense early and keep the D on the field. The wear and tear matters, and Bevell has undeniably been a part of that because he is incapable of keeping the offense on the field.
Wasn’t that a block in the back?
It was clearly a block in the back. Should have been called.
Another awful start. This could be a long game. The young Rams are a difficult match- even at the Seahawks prime.
This is Atlanta part 2.
I was going to post something earlier that the one thing Hawks really need to improve next year is special teams. Make that an explanation point after the start to this game
Davis needs to just plant a god damn foot in the ground and get upfield. Quit trying to force a run that ain’t there.
Special teams…
Never seen a PC team tackle so poorly. On D too.
Alright. That was a head scratching play call. 2 receivers run the same route in the middle of the field?
Tanner McEvoy. Fumbles and two missed tackles on special teams. Why is he on the team again?
This team is trash on all levels
They aren’t good. This season has reminded me so much of ’09 USC. Just a sinking ship.
They got heart though.
They usually do but every shot of the sideline shows a whole team of players tbat dont care
Hard to care when the officials make it obvious who they favor early. Why even bother going hard at that point? You know the offense is going to sputter and fail to score early, we have 1 game with a td in the first quarter. At this point just dont get injured tank and get to 8-8 then just trade back. Trade Kam for a 3rd rounder and rebuild draft capital.
Haha! Look at Pete.
That’s 2 first and goals now where Gurley didn’t even get touched.
Hahahahaha! O-line does it again. Amazing how terrible it is.
So far, not a good day to be a Seahawk fan, when even our MVP is loosing balls.
First time this team has looked like they have given up from what I can remember. Maybe they just aren’t good.
Hmm 4 score lead – it’s tough to judge where Seahawks need improvement when the entire team is getting beat.
Coaching.
My as well start with coaching. If not this season then when?
I’m starting to move slowly to move into this camp
If there is not major roster and coaching turnover this offseason it will be disappointing. This season has been a mess and the coaching on all levels has been awful IMO from Pete on down.
I’m going to have to include a change at whoever picks draft players. There has. Even a big drop off in last three years. I like the new guys for 2017 but it doesn’t make up for the 1-2 keepers in years before.
Waking nightmare. When spotting teams points goes from aberration to trend to a downright habit. Depth will only get you so far. Hopefully next year we get another shot
there is no depth though. it’s time to start with new scouts
I might hope for no playoffs this year. The teams needs a spark, and a real slap in the face. This off-season might be the most important since the one where PC and JS took over. Aging players, no running game, woof. But, in Schneider we trust (?)
I haven’t trusted Sneider since 2012.
Wow, what a shit show. Can they still come back and make a game of it. 28-27? Let’s remember the Bills Oilers game 25 years ago.
The reasons the Rams are taking he division from the Hawks is really simple to see IMO. People will say injuries but I would say “the Rams addressed issues finally and effectively and Hawks did not”
Rams replaced an underachieving and over rated coach in Jeff Fischer and the Hawks failed to do that keeping Cable and to a lesser extent Bevel.
Rams fixed the OL by picking up Vets and Whitworth in particular during the offseason and gave them an offseason to gel. The Hawks took a guy coming off an ACL and waited till half way through the season to address Lt.
Result Rams have good OL and as a result thier run game has gone from awful to good and thier young QB has time to make plays. Hawks OL sucks, run game stinks and Russ is running for life.
If the Niners find a legit QB this pre-season or if Jimmy G emerges as that guy, Seattle will be in even more trouble.
Well…even if the Hawks pull off a win I think it’s time to start looking into a mini rebuild this off-season. If they start playoff games like this they aren’t going anywhere; plus it just hurts their draft position at this point. The team needs quality depth players and young defensive players via the draft. Draft: RB, CB, SS, LB, DL. UDFA: WR, TE, OL, P, K, etc. I also think coaching changes are necessary. Honestly, Russell is the only one keeping this team competitive. 27-0 Rams as I type this…PC, JS and PA have to be thinking about rebuilding at this point. Sad.
Biggest game of the year and they show up with no heart or effort. Get rid of graham and Bennett. Bennett is supposed to be a leader instead of getting everyone going he’s sitting on the sidelines with a blank look on his face. Him and graham are both checked out.
what’s Bennett going to do when it feels like multiple games this season when the offense spots the other teams a few turnovers and then some great special teams play that’s been going on all season.
No matter how frustrated you are if you are a leader on a team you lead by example not sit there and pout. If your top players are sitting there pouting and throwing in the towel what do you think everyone else is going to do? Not only that I’ve barely seen any effort from graham or Bennett all season.
I’ll start calling out Bennett when ANYONE on offense does anything
plus that’s what I’m literally asking. what’s the example to set? hey I do my job, play through injuries and you guys on offense can just jack up game after game
Everyone in the nfl plays through injuries. Yes everyone on the team should be called out. Coaches, the offense, the defense, and special teams. Does he do his job though? Last season he makes a comment about the jags being a joke and losing games by 50 then last week I don’t think I saw him get to Blake bortles once. His season has been pretty bad overall in my opinion and if he’s to hurt to play then just sit on the bench. I respect him and all he does for the community but at this point I think thats the attachement to Bennett which is great. I just don’t think he’s that interested in playing anymore.
id agree about him maybe not wanting to play.
This for sure looks like a team that has semi thrown in the towel.
It’s almost like a circus.
What happened to the home field advantage this team was supposed to have? They’ve needed miraculous comebacks against bad teams.
Done assuming that Ifedi will get better. He hasn’t.
And it’s OK to wonder if the game has passed Pete Carroll by. He’s 66 years old. It happens to the best of them.
If Seattle goes down the rest of the season without swinging, Paul Allen will shake this team up.
This is the Stanford 55- USC 21 game all over again. Teetering on the end of an era.
It is needed IMO. It needs an overhaul not tweaks!
don’t know about paul Allen. he’s let Portland be mediocre forever and let Holmgren stumble on out before letting more burn the thing to the ground.
I wish he would shake it up somehow.
Mora I mean
The same thing happened to Holmgren man. He was great, got old, and the game passed him by.
I hope allen doesn’t let this go on like that did for a few extra seasons.
The team has completely quit! The coach’s have lost this team and the just don’t care anymore.
The Seahawks have clearly been surpassed by the Rams and are very close to being surpassed by the Niners. Better coached, younger and hungrier players. Good lord.
This team especially the defense is getting old. It’s time to make major changes or else we’ll be battling the Cards for 3rd place and mediocrity
Who are the rams not getting called for blocks in the back every kick return
Everyone of those punt returns was a block in the back.
Imma focus more on this AFC super-game, cause slaughter is going on in Rain City.
Good season guys. This will be a very important off-season.
Their window ain’t closed, but the era might be over. Meaning, this teams needs to be built around the offense going forward. Not PC’s antiquated ’80s style D. Doesn’t mean Pete won’t be here, but him and JS are responsible for what we’re seeing. No doubt about that.
Probably need to miss the playoffs for some self reflection. What does a 1st round loss accomplish? False sense of security?
Andy Benoit was a little bit right wasn’t he? Russ is a huge reason for the slow starts.
Never thought I would hear Century Link booing their own team. This off-season will decide if Seattle stays in the top, or falls to the middle. Interesting how much injuries on certain players can wreck your season, aswell as “missed” picks.
They’re TOO dependent on TOO FEW players. This off-season they have pick 3-4 players on both offense and defense and cut the fat everywhere else.
You just can’t replace certain guys. Its not that easy.
All these teams with good young D’s will do the same thing as Seattle. They’ll lock up their star defenders and pay ’em big bucks.
34-0… that’s it…PC had better retire after this game… I’m serious. That has to be a consideration at this point. This is unacceptable. The team is toast. They aren’t even trying. Just look defeated and broken. No life. Boos from the stands. Today marks the end of an era. Activate rebuild mode and build around Wilson. Maybe they’ll be competitive in a year or two.
Clearly the end of an era and the worst part about going all in for it this year is that the Hawks don’t have much draft capital to improve quickly.
I really hope they clean house this off season. Keep the core of Russ, Wags and Earl and do a complete rebuild like 2011. Next year would be tough but one down year might be a good thing long run.
Fix the OL once and for all and bring in a new OL coach. Focus on keeping Russ healthy and bring in a bunch of toon guys on D and at RB hoping to find some new core pieces who can be part of a new contending team in 2019-20
Agreed 100%
After this farce I’m ok with a competely new staff, head coach included if necessary. I don’t think Carroll is willing to give up his schemes to other assistant coaches. The Rams and 49ers have brilliant offensive coaches and aren’t going away.
As Bilechek always says in the NFL you adapt and change or die!
Rob I’m not any kind of hippy but I’m sending you positive vibes. I’m not sure how you begin to address this game and in many ways the end of this season and whether this is a turbulent patch like the Steelers have gone through in multiple seasons or if this is the end of an identity and time for a whole new look.
good luck I look forward to your takes.
current mood: new DC. goodbye Kris Richard you look lost. Good bye whoever is the special teams coach. Goodbye Cable. Robs made some great points about him but it’s been too many mediocre years with seattle and oakland. too many odd decisions. and Wilson is getting killed.
Agree on all points Peter!
Last year Gurley was considered a Bust! This year he is a star.
Why? simple really OL! Offensive play calling!
Two things the Hawks have lacked for 5 years.
And their projected cap space next year is $51 mil according to Spotrac. Seattle is at $18 mil.
That is why I think the talk of an RB in round #1 is crazy till you fix the OL what is the point?
The O-line might be the worst in the league. It’s awful. FAs won’t come here. Gotta draft ’em.
And other than Bennett and Avril, what FAs has JS signed that’s made a significant impact?
currently you can look at trades even. lynch best trade for a pick ever. Clemons a trade or FA maybe but beyond that, not Percy, and I’m into graham for Red zone skills but he doesn’t “change,” this team to a net positive. not s Richardson.
Clemons was a waiver wire claim. Who expected him to become what he was? Lynch, absolutely.
Clemons was a trade with Philly for Trapp
can’t have the same people drafting then. sorry but you can’t keep throwing good draft capital after bad with the same people who have had 6 years to build this and this is the line they could come up with?
Yes. This absolutely starts with Pete and JS.
I agree, need better draft picks. A lack of first round hits is showing.
I am going to get killed probably for saying this but I would love to see the Hawks bring in Lane Kiffin and give him complete control of the Offense! He is one of the best offensive minds in football plus he excels in coaching the run game.
Won’t happen but I would love to see it.
At this point…yeah sure.
We’re witnessing the changing of the guard. The youngest coach in the league is out coaching the oldest.
He is and it is not even close.
Just a thought; Wonder how many teams would be “happy” if they had our current W/L record. Atleast we will get a higher draftpick this year. To trade back or not could make or break next season.
The one season we would have a higher pick and we have no draft capital.
Depending who’s at RB I’d trade back. They have to literally rebuild the defense.
Would love to see them clean house on D then rebuild around Earl, Wags, Griffin, Clark, Reed, Jones.
No. It’s time to become an offensive team going forward. That’s the way the game is going. Doesn’t mean ya stop adding pieces on defense though.
Yes, but they’re defensive depth is horrible. Wilson elevates everyone around him. 40-0 -_-
And depth can be added anywhere. They won’t have the money to do this gigantic rebuild some want.
got to go with v12 here. defensive depth sucks but they ain’t superstars anymore. it would probably help them out to control the offensive possessions in anyway, shape, or form. give the d just something to work with.
Guarantee Russ comes out and plays his ass off in 2nd half. If he gives up I would be shocked. I don’t think he has one ounce of quit in him unlike his BFF Graham who has to go IMO. Who cares about his stats.
I’d rather they get blown out. A loss is a loss. They need an a** whooping.
That already happened
Same. A message needs to be sent. A win only results in praise and continued mediocrity. The status quo needs to be changed.
It took 6 weeks but Duane Brown is finally playing like a Cable coached olineman
Yep Seattle is the place where OL come to regress! No wonder no vet OL want to come to Sea unless over paid like Joeckel. They leave and get good again.
Was always overrated.
Here we go again.
This OL is laughable really!
I have been saying it for 4 years now but if Cable is back next year as OL coach I am done as a Hawks fan this is ridiculous and embarrassing.
I hope they will finally address this but if not it is too frustrating to watch the same incompotence year after year with the only constant being the OL coach. I will stick to CFB.
I’ll always be a Seahawk fan through thick and thin, but I totally understand your sentiment.
I would never cheer for another team but have been so fustrated watching the same incompetence year after year with no change just excuses and it has cost the core of this great defense the chance to win multiple Super Bowls
The NFL is awful. Has been for 2-3 years now.
I know some people will laugh and it probably won’t work, but this is the perfect time for Vince McMahon to start up an alternate football league.
Agree about the quality of football Vol. I was always an NFL over CFB guy but the last 2 years that has changed I love Saturdays now and Sundays are becoming increasing less interesting.
Saturday’s are the s!!! the game day show is a billion times better than any nfl pregame. the matchups. the rivalries. the shortness of the season.
Baseball has done this better than any other sport. They’ve made the game about players and not teams, much like CFB.
Is there any other young coaches out there that need a new job?
Remember when we had a RB that would take over games and have a trickle down effect on how well the defense played? That was fun.
And JS thought Eddie Lacy was gonna be the answer?
this morning I was working up a small post about the effect of rb’s drafted in the first two rounds going back over the last eleven seasons since lynch was drafted. you can find rbs anywhere but by a huge majority players that had top ten seasons multiple times were drafted in the first 2 rounds.
out of the 25 players to have top ten seasons multiple times only 7 if them came after the first two rounds.
I’m not saying that’s the only answer at that position but if seattle really wanted to be the bully they should have seriously tried that more than once.
I was getting ready to do some breakdown of whether it is really the online or the RB that is most important but then seattle farted at me through me t.v. and now I don’t know what to think.
It’s both.
One draft I looked at thought a couple running backs would go in the first round, and a bunch at the top of the second round. So If Seahawks choose to trade back again, they need to be in the top of the second round before the running backs get picked over.
And a strong argument could be made that they should pick the best back available in the first round. If you are basing half your offense on running the ball, you can’t screw around with the late draft picks as a first back. They are fine for 2 or 3 back, but you need a work horse.
Someone like Collins – he’s having a great season. LOL
The offense is getting beat bad, BUT the defense isn’t even trying.
Scratch that. Wilson is the only one trying on offense.
7 sacks! Russ just runs into ’em. What is Pete’s obsession with long developing pass plays?
there’s some “moneyball,” effect in winning IF you can pull off those explosive plays. but they can’t so, there’s that……
I have no problem with them, but your entire offense can’t just be that.
that and they can’t execute them as constructed. also where’s the Tate style YAC player?
God I hope they go get Maryland WR DJ Moore. I’d like for them to add more size outside, but he plays much bigger than he is, is a Seahawk receiver through and through, and would allow Seattle to get extremely creative becuae you’d have 3 guys in Moore, Baldwin, and Lockett that can all align from the same slots/positions and create confusion.
I’m looking at him tonight!
They just have so many needs and so few picks. Bad drafting from the last couple years being made bare. But that said, I agree Vol. Just get good players and Moore looks like a beast. Any thoughts on Deshon Elliott from Tex?
I like him from the 2 games I’ve seen. Heard Dane Brugler I think, say he was 1st round worthy. Not sold on that. I just don’t know if SS is a HUGE need. Would be a day 3 pick for me, but I ain’t in that war room.
Look. I love PC. Always have and always will. This is really his 1st ‘awful’ year. However, something has changed. The way they’ve been winning games these past few years is different. The system, technique, whatever u want to call it has changed.
Yup.
As a team = they can’t have a slow start to the season every year. It usually looks like the offense regresses each offseason.
As a team – the offense needs to come out firing and scoring from play one.
The defense needs to make third down stops. Also first and second down stops LOL.
This might be heresy, but I don’t want the Hawks making the playoffs at all. Not looking like this.
Feel the same. It won’t accomplish anything but bragging rights or lull them into thinking everything is OK. ‘We’re just one tiny little tweak away’ or whatever.
agree. I hate trade backs but this year seattle needs capitol. needs, needs, needs a tone setter who make chicken salad out of this chicken bleep.
or.
straight up become something else and be a real aerial team. I love Seattle’s WR corps but not a one if them is a game breaker.
Seattle needs Scot Mcloughan
no doubt.
Not a coincidence.
Your team takes on the personality of your HC. The Rams are young, energetic, creative, exciting.
Seattle? They look tired, lethargic, confused.
Jacksonville in the 2nd seed if Patriots lose?!?!? What is this, the Twilight Zone?!?!
tom Coughlin is the worst thing to happen to the patriots!!!!
1997.
sure there’s 1997 for the patriots! but their dynasty would have been puke inducing (it might still be) if it were not for the giants in 08 and 12
How about Rams vs Jaguars for the Superbowl? I’d watch it.
I’d be all in on a Jags SB. Not the Rams though. Hoping NO is the NFC representative.
True.
I’m a cornball so I’d love to see brees get another ring and for people to acknowledge he’s actually a better qb than Peyton was.
Skr skr
Hol’ up.
Thats a bridge too far for me
well if he starts two more seasons he’ll have better stats in the same seasons as a starter playing in an arguably tougher division than manning played the majority of his career.
plus he’ll never be known for omaha-ing his way to a safety in the superbowl!
Jacksonville had the right idea. Get a franchise back and a mauler at OT that can grow together. Keep adding pieces on D.
Amazing how hood running games let your defense play fresher than they actually are.
Woof .
I love OUR team, but damn… LAR came in to prove a point. They lost to us in Week 5 and pissed away last week’s game.
Coming off the JAC loss, I don’t know what has happened today. I don’t know if we were relying on home field advantage, but we didn’t have it today. We could potentially being drafting in the Top-15. After giving up our 2nd and 3rd rd picks, we gotta find ways to make things happen in the draft
Like, what’s even the 1st pick at this point if Jimmy ain’t kept? Will need a TE, need another DE but it’s not a good class’s RT appears to be a need more and more every week, probably need another WR if P-Rich is gone, obviously need a RB, but that’s gonna depend on where the pocket of talent lies (round wise).
And Sheldon isn’t worth $14 mil. So he was traded for, and that trade accomplished what?
I completely understand.
Richardson might be worth $10-11M/yr.
Richardson and Graham leaving would probably net 2 3rd rd picks (maybe a 3rd and 4th). We definitely haven’t helped ourselves and the injuries were just insult
Its almost like JS missed the Forrest for the trees. Just became incredibly short sighted and went all in for a year
Losing Fant killed us and the injuries we sustained could’ve never been predicted. That being said, I still question the Lacy signing EVERY day.
We’ve got some BIG decisions to make and we can’t afford to do anything cute. We need a repeat of creativity and building through the draft 2010-2012 style.
AT the time, Richardson and Brown seemed like what the team needed for a superbowl run. But that was just the beginning of the numerous injuries. Wagner is playing his heart out, but he is only three quarters there.
Said it already this year. Every big signing and trade by John Schneider has been a disappointment.
Is this dude challenging a play up 40-7?
What a dick! -_-
Win every play, zero problem with it.
Yup, his team is putting out with that lead, why shouldn’t he do it for them?
Hey, for what it’s worth the Hawks have two game of the year contenders with the Eagles and Texans games.
Easily the worst loss of the PC era
Is it time for a new era?
Yes.
Dude just walks Ifedi back right into Russ’s passing lane.
That was bullshit.
Another god damn coaching error. Why is RW still in the game!? His he or isn’t he your future?
Gotta say. I’m kinda loving what Sean McVay is doing here. Looking PC right in the eye and saying ‘f*** off! You think you got big balls? We’re the big dogs of the NFCW now.’
might be short lived. I’m pretty curious to see what lynch a 100 million plus more high draft picks does next year.
they killed seattle today bit Goff still gotta Goff from time to tome. see: their home game against us.
wtf happened to the clink? that place is getting to be the jag of stadiums
Hahaha! The fans are leaving now!? Woulda left at half time. 2 weeks in a row that a team who has taken Seattle’s identity, stared ’em right in the face, and beat them over the head at their own game.
worst game of the PC era. Just an ass whipping on every level
offense, defense, special teams, coaching, challenges
If there was a pre game tailgate contest, the salmon would have gotten smoked
Good lord. Zeke Elliott is gonna run down our throats next week isn’t he?
Dude I doubt it!
Not sure how you overlook your division leading rivals, but Pete managed to do it.
This reminds me of that joke about the old bull grazing with some cows in the pasture, and how he starts ripping and snorting when the new bull comes in. One farmer asks the other “are the bulls going to fight?” The other farmer says “Naw, that old bull just wants the new one to know he’s not a cow!”
Bunch of f****ing heffers tho
That shot of fans leaving the stands is sad. I don’t blame them, but damn that’s sad.
God Juju is such a stud. I wanted him for the Seahawks
Wow that Seahawks chant was beautiful.
Get a foot in the playoffs and this team can make something happen.
There have been way worse teams than this win the superbowl.
Never count us out.
I cried a little. Even in defeat the 12s are the best fans in the league.
Far out.
When the end comes, it comes at you fast.
The hawks haiku
Russel in the rain
Dan mcgwiresque throwback
Fumble bumble burp
End of an era. Period.
You keep your core of Russ, Wagner, and MAYBE Earl and the rest you blow up. I say maybe Earl because it might be time to look at the possibility of trading Earl to get draft capital.
YOU DON’T sign back Graham!!!!! You don’t keep Cabel or Richard!!! It’s time to “compete” at all levels of this team and front office. The issue with this team has can’t be masked in FA or with getting healthy. Not to mention the pieces we do have even if they come back next year are ANOTHER year older. We don’t even have the draft capital to fix THESE issues. Not to mentions we’ve missed on so many players that you can’t even feel good about the off-season and the young pieces we have.
Nailed it
Just saw Ben throw a pick on the goaline against the Pats. It still pisses me off that Bevell thought that the best play at the one with your 5’10” QB is a slant.
Here is my thoughts on today game .special teams was a disaster the rams have a huge advantage over the Hawks in that department and I was talking to rams fan today and he was saying the rams have been injury free all year and too be brutally honest the Hawks have a bunch of guys wearing Parka’s on sidelines making a lot of money.and have RW has not many great game’s in his career against RAM’s. Has anyone thought about bringing Ken Norton Jr back the defense was better when he was there Rob what is your thoughts on that