I would release Quandre Diggs, Jamal Adams, and Geno Smith.
Bring back Smith on a cheaper contract if he wants.
Need to remove as many of the high salaries that are not elite in the league.
Trade DK Metcalf. Need to skinny the talent up front and reduce salary.
As good as Metcalf is the Seahawks don’t use him enough.
Better to take the draft capital the cap space and draft a young replacement receiver.
Love Pete Carroll. Would hope that he just becomes the philosophical leader of the team.
Need to replace both coordinators with two coordinators that have total and complete control of the schemes that the team will use and run and the personnel that they want to have on the field.
Let Pete do the rah rah, build and create the culture, make it a destination that players love to play in.
Mushy middle is death in any sports league.
Need to be in the top six to be considered a realistic contender every year.
If you cant be a realistic contender every year than figure out how to bring in more talent and manage the cap to take advantage of opportunities when they come up.
Love everything you do Rob regarding the draft and the team analysis.
Joseph
Rob, it sucks you get a lot a lot of criticism for not only speaking how you feel but speaking facts. Unfortunately, you’re speaking to a naive majority of a fanbase that believes in all of bullshit that has been going on for years. These fans have been making excuses for Pete and blaming someone else. Remember to these toxic fans, Seattle media, and ownership, Pete gets an accountability free pass for life because of the SB win from 10 YEARS AGO.
5 or 6 years I voiced my dislike for Pete and wanting him fired on social media and I’ve been called everything from idiot to bandwagon and that I know nothing about football. The only legit arguments Petehawk fans can say as reasons to keep him is that he won a SB and all the winning seasons we have after. But funny how coaches like Mike McCarthy and Sean Payton have had just as many winning seasons as Pete. Are they still with teams they won a SB with? How about Doug Pederson? He was fired only a few years after winning one with Philly.
Unfortunately, only 2 ways Pete is gone is if he decides to hang it up or the new ownership decides to move on (but thats if and when Jody is gonna sell the team). Majority of the fanbase keeps insisting on keeping Pete and believing he’s gonna win us another SB. It’s not gonna happen.
Fans who no longer support Pete, if we want Pete gone then we gotta be louder than the fanbase that wants to keep him.
I’ve been on your side for awhile Rob and I’ll keep supporting you. Never stop voicing your opinion!
geoff u
You’ve always taken a very rational, pragmatic approach to things, that’s what makes this place great. I don’t think there’s anything unreasonable in what you’ve laid out.
Anyone else surprised the Eagles defense hasn’t been all that good despite all that front line talent? They’re giving up a lot of pass yards (26th) and a decent amount of points (19th). I don’t think defense is really all that important anymore, the league has minimized it too much. What you need are a few playmakers and a solid scheme. Outside the Cowboys and Niners, I feel like what defense does good any particular year is random. Except Seattle of course, we’re pretty consistently mediocre to bad. I’m not sure building up the defense, in this day and age, is really going to get us anywhere. And certainly not blowing 50 mil on two mediocre safeties. I feel like Pete is slowly falling behind the times.
Just gotta get a QB, and keep the ball out of the other teams hands. Niners and Eagles are both top 5 offenses. That really helps the defense. Geno not going 3 and out, or not converting on third down, seven drives in a row for stretches, would really help out the defense. Pair Pete with a franchise QB and we’ll be balling for another decade. But that’s true with any team…most teams…you don’t want to be like the Chargers and wasting your franchise QB season after season.
AlaskaHawk
Rob I skipped through your video but it seemed like it hit your usual points.
My comment about negativity is that we are feeding into a negativity loop. As an example in the last game Geno wasn’t playing well the first half. Of course everyone on this blog commented and for the most part it was negative comments about the offense and the failures of the defense. Not just Geno but everyone.
Come the second half, maybe because of fan fatigue, there were hardly any comments and hardly anything positive said, despite the fact that the defense toughened up and Geno Smith did lead a come from behind rally for the win. A win that puts this team at 6-3. Shouldn’t we all be happy to be 6-3?
This fan base here has been conditioned to think of our team as a failure, even with a 6-3 record.
We are also conditioned to believe that the team has to do something in the off season. Get another quarterback, get rid of expensive safeties and other non perfoming players. But the GM and Coach have mostly been puzzling in their moves for years and years. To the point where we celebrate them having a good draft instead of the usual why did they pick that player in the first round?
Anyway, you spent a lot of time studying QBs last year, and guess what, they did pick a QB and it was Ahlers. This year your studying again, and they may very well punt again. This GM and Coach are real wild cards. The end result is the fan base here being heart broken again!
Anyway, the main point I want to make is that I think we should be happier about the raggedy game time performance than we are. And save the worries for the seasonal drafting, trading and coaching.
Anyway, I think we have to separate the day to day seasonal perfomance from your long term draft goals.
Jabroni-DC
Shouldn’t we all be happy to be 6-3?
…we should be happier…
… we have to separate the day to day seasonal perfomance from your long term draft goals.
Is there room for different perspectives? Different views? Different choices?
My perspective is that if you drop the ‘shouldn’t we all, we should, we have to’ & simply share your perspective the world will benefit from your allowance of others to choose for themselves.
The Seahawks didn’t come from behind to win. They coughed up a handsome lead, with the defense conceding two easy TD drives. Then they got into FG range to win at the end. So let’s be accurate here. They made hard work of that.
Peter
I think Alaska is part right that the banality of it all has conditioned fans in a few ways.
Just me but I’m honestly pretty bored by this forever need to grind out wins against any and all opponents. The giants game was actually fun for me to see the team completely work over another team.
WAS is actually bad. They’ve passed on the season in hopes of the future. The coach is probably a lame duck. Instead of frankly crushing them ( turns out we can’t) we engage in a weird defensive battle for a half then a shootout with them.
I’d take anything at this point. Best air attack. Best secondary. Best running game. Just be near the top in anything besides best punt yardage and weirdly the team’s MVP is actually Jason Myers who is accounting for almost 30% of all points.
BK26
For me, the Giants game might be the most frustrating. I have never seen a team so beaten down and borderline waving a white flag. And we couldn’t dominate and just destroy them. Should have been like the Ravens game, but for us destroying them. 2013 and 2014 teams would have eaten them alive.
Devon Witherspoon made that game. All of the sacks were more or less an outlier than a sign of something to come. That game alone was 1/3 of our sacks for the season. Geno turned into a child and has almost been a sign of things to come with his attitude. After Witherspoon’s pick six, Lock coming in was the most exciting thing.
Peter
True. But….Geno. that’s why we couldn’t thoroughly throttle them.
WAS was more infuriating for me. As it unfolded I knew I’d get a week of “genos back!!!”. They should have hammered that team.
Now unlike Giants where at the time I thought…hey now is this defense going to tick upwards halfway in the reality is we are mid tier or lower in any meaningful area and that’s playing some truly bad teams.
Sten
To be fair to the Commies they did force the Eagles into a last minute win, too. The NFL has a lot of parity right now and even looking at teams who we should probably envy, they’ve had stinkers, like the Bills, Bengals and Dolphins. Totally agree with your last point though, there’s nothing consistent you can point to with this team and say “that’s why we’re a good team” since there’s nothing we do well for multiple weeks at a time. It feels anti-pete the way the offense works when it does work, by west-coasting the way down the field with short passes and few runs.
BK26
The team played poorly (again) and barely won against a bad team (again). We can get excited about the record all we want, but we’ve been here before. Year after year after year. It is nothing new. It’s the thought of “hey we are winning more than we are losing, so that is ok with me! More rainbows and sunshine!”
The product is extremely underwhelming and those that are leading the team are the issues (Pete, Geno, both coordinators). The team is too talented not to be improving. Then there are two games this year that were complete and utter embarrassments. There are too many of those too often.
There is no conditioning into thinking that the team is a failure. They are middle of the road. Since they have been that way for years, that doesn’t cut it with me. I want to win another Super Bowl. They aren’t close. I look at it that way: where are they making up ground?
There is also no conditioning into thinking that something has to be done this offseason. That is a fact. The safety issue and the quarterback issue HAS TO BE FIXED. The safeties hold the rest of the roster back, both on the field and with the cap. And we currently do not have a quarterback capable of winning a Super Bowl. Our current qb can’t run arguably the most talented team in football. So because Pete and John make odd moves, we just don’t worry about it?
I’m not happy with mediocrity. The record doesn’t matter when you have games that are embarrassments and you aren’t seriously competing. I’m not going to tune it all out and worry about it in the future. They had a great record last year and look what happened. They lost to the entire NFC South.
Celebrate what they have done so far, you can do what you want as a fan. If you are happy with this situation, good for you. I want to win the whole thing and they aren’t close. I don’t really care to be told how or what to feel. I’m worried about what needs to be fixed and how to do it. I’ll tune it out a bit during the game, but the on-field product is still not good enough to silence the issues for the whole time.
Joseph
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 you are 100% spot on. It’s the way we been winning games that has been a huge problems because that won’t work against powerhouse teams. The ravens game proved that and chances are its gonna prove that again with the 4 games after the rams. But we can’t sleep on the rams either considering they have our number and Stafford is back.
Brodie
Well said
geoff u
We were 6-3 at this point last year during an easy first half schedule, ended 9-8 and got blown out in the playoffs. How is this team any different? When was the last time we won a playoff game? Let alone thought we were a Super Bowl caliber team? I’m sorry but a lot of us have been feeling like we’ve been spinning our wheels for a decade while watching the FO make questionable win now moves, that don’t help win now while perpetually sacrificing the future.
And now we saw it again with the Leonard Williams trade, which is very frustrating after finally having two good drafts. I mean if the FO really believes we are a Leonard Williams trade away from a Super Bowl, that is a big problem, and feels like the same old shit. A team that believes themselves great, while being consistently mediocre. As Rob states, I want to aim for greatness and be the top dog winning Super Bowls, not be the Kirk Cousins of NFL teams. To get there you have to take a step back and honestly take a look in the mirror to see what this team needs to be great, and make the effort to go out get that. And it’s obvious what that is is a franchise QB, it’s just the way the NFL is and has always been, it’s not some big secret. We haven’t cracked some magical code. But if the FO can’t see it, and can’t do it, then it’s just another wasted year of spinning our wheels.
Joseph
Yes!!!! You are spot on. Which is why I do have to disagree with Rob when he said Pete can win us another SB. I don’t believe that at all. His time has past. We are running the same stale philosophies on both offense and defense. They’re why we’ve been a mediocre playoff team for years. And it honestly doesn’t matter who our coordinators are because we’ve seen the same predictable stuff no matter who the coordinator was. What we’ve seen from Waldron so far is no different from Bevell and Scottenheimer. Same goes for Hurt Norton and Richard. Pete’s not the type of coach to give a coordinator the keys to run everything, he’s gotta be in control of everything and that’s a problem. And I think he has more control over the drafts and trades than Schneider.
BK26
Yeah, we could win with Pete, just like we could win with Geno. It is a literal possibility, but I personally don’t think it will happen. The team is still where it has been overall. And honestly, I don’t trust Pete to develop a young quarterback. No one has developed under Pete. Just can’t see Pete making the hard team decisions needed and giving up control enough and just delegating.
Also, he is starting to make excuses for Geno and it sounds too much like Russ for my liking…. That’s on Pete.
AlaskaHawk
Also on Pete is the lack of a meaningful running game. Which would certainly help the passing game. Look how well the Seahawks did on their last drive when they actually ran the ball.
I’m going to get back to my point though. We need to separate the desire for a superbowl win from the week to week struggle to play games. Can we not find some joy in the team as it exists during this season? I think we can. If we criticize every bad play/drop/fumble for a team then can we also celebrate the good stuff? The two catches that DK made during the last series, and guess who threw them, our QB Geno Smith.
This is a flawed team on a journey. And what I saw in the comments last Sunday was a complete breakdown of the fans by halftime. Hardly any comments in the second half. We were numb by then.
Lets just enjoy their raggedy performance which will probably get them to the playoffs, again. And hope they can do better on the off season and find a decent QB after the season is over.
Joseph
I want to enjoy being 6-3 but we saw what happened last year when we were that. All of our wins except maybe the Detroit game have been mediocre wins. We’re not gonna be able to win like that the rest of year especially against 49ers Eagles and Cowboys. The Ravens game proved we have a lot more flows than strengths. If we keep playing this way then we’ll never beat the real contenders let alone be real contenders. I wanna go back to the 2012-2013 seasons where we were killing teams and every team feared us.
BK26
I just can’t enjoy a movie that I watch over and over and over again since 2016. There is nothing to enjoy other than “yay we won a game.” That’s it, then reality is right there, back.
There is a fine line that we are stuck on: good enough. Not enough to for any big changes to come, not good enough to be getting better and building.
Their performance this season and for years isn’t something that a lot of us are going to find small moral victories. What was to celebrate in the second half? We decided to show up and squeak by? That is almost every week. We should be almost demanding better.
geoff u
Well the bright side is, Detroit will probably get the 2nd seed, and we will probably get the 7th seed, which means we’ll actually have a good shot at winning a playoff game this year.
geoff u
Get a franchise QB and you don’t need a coach. Being hyperbolic of course, but I do think Pete can win another Super Bowl — if we can get a franchise QB. You can say that about most teams though. Look at the Texans, won 3 games last year, 4 games each two prior years. Now they’re probably going to the playoffs.
Most disconcerting to me is Pete’s a defensive minded coach and it’s been middling to bad defenses for the past 6 years. That’s kind of a big issue. Imagine an Andy Reid team being bottom of the league on offense for six years.
Elmer
Getting a franchise QB isn’t easy and it isn’t automatic. We got one with RW because we were smart or because we we lucky. (It’s smarter to be lucky than it’s lucky to be smart).
geoff u
Well we haven’t been smart or lucky since. I mean, the plan post Wilson was apparently to just roll with Geno Smith/Drew Lock. How is this still the plan 2 years in? We all know it’s not easy to get a franchise QB, but until you have one every effort should be made to get one. Hell, we tried while HAVING one in Wilson (Mahomes, Allen, Herts, if the rumors are true). The front office has to know this, and they need to do something about it is all I’m saying. They dropped the ball in last years draft and they can’t keep doing so.
Elmer
Right. It’s time to activate Plan B, if they have one. If they do nothing in the 2024 draft, then either they are happy with Smith/Lock, or all the QB prospects they like are off the board by the time they draft.
805Hawk
Alaska, I feel you. I have had to catch myself on numerous occasions just being negative instead of trying to enjoy the team and the journey. My son actually looked at me at one point and asked who I was rooting for. I was a bit ashamed at that. I want a reset of this stale franchise (new QB and head coach) so bad that sometimes I catch my self hoping for failure just to see those long term goals accomplished. It doesn’t make for such a good viewing experience, honestly. What’s funny, is when I go to a game (like this Sunday at SoFi) I find myself rooting harder and having a better time without the broadcasters, Geno close-ups, and gum chewing head coach being thrust in my face. Everyone is just a Seahawk down on the field. It becomes just about the football on the field in that moment. Again, I’m not happy with where we are as a team, but game day could be more enjoyable.
Jeff M.
Look at the past schedule vs upcoming. We’re 6-3 on our way to 8-9. Not celebrating 6-3 is just being realistic about how the team is actually performing and our current chances of contention.
Chris
Maybe part of the divide is many fans are perfectly happy to root for their team and be a 1 and done playoff team year after year, while folks here freely admit the reality that this team is at the level of a 1 and done playoff team (do people really argue about how good the team is? I think we all know for the most part), but are truly concerned about the details required to actually be a super bowl winner. If you want your team to be a superbowl winner, then all the forseeable mistakes and miscalculations this team makes on a regular basis, which we know WILL screw up the ability to win a superbowl, become unacceptable. If you don’t TRULY care about winning a superbowl, then it just sounds like bitching.
Or maybe these 100%raw-raw-fans actually do really want the Seahawks to win a superbowl, but actually have no conception of what has to happen for that to occur. Part of me thinks they actually believe in the delusion that if everyone is super positive all the time it will actually help the team win games.
Jabroni-DC
I did listen to the video Rob & have the same goal of reaching the top of the mountain again. It’s fair to ask questions. It’s fair to share observations of what you see & offer critique, options & opinions toward reaching that goal. It’s fun to identify players that we want to add to this team in pursuit of that goal & watch them grow together towards a championship.
Romeo A57
I would say that the disconnect is how to judge Geno Smith. If you just judge him by the amount of wins then he is a good quarterback. If you judge him as a reclamation bust Quarterback when he was in New York. then is playingfine.
If you are rating Geno as a potential Superbowl contending Quarterback, then he is playing poorly this year. If the Seahawks want to be an actual contender, they are not, then Geno would need need to play much better.
Geno Smith is currently an average level NFL Starting Quarterback. He is much better then many like DeVito, Zach Allen, Pickett, etc. but not nearly in the class of the elite like Mahomes or Burrow. Many on this blog who want to see the Seahawks get to another Superbowl, do not see a pathway to that with Geno and are critical of his play.
The Seahawks have had one of the easiest schedules so far this season. They have one of the hardest schedules left for their last 8 games. If Geno is playing inconsistently against the easiest schedule , then what is he going to look like against these teams coming up?
The Seahawks point diffential after 9 games sits at -1. This is sure to be a lot worse by the end of the year. This indicates that the team is not nearly as good as the 6-3 record indicates. The Seahawks may very well sneak into a WC Game, but do not seem a threat to win a playoff game.
Don’t be fooled by this 6-3 record against a lot of cupcakes. Wait until they play the 49ers, Cowboys and Eagles then judge this team. From what we have seen them this year, many expect those games to go poorly.
Chris
Even if we all agreed he was a “good” quarterback, there would still be a disconnect.
It could be argued that signing “good” quarterbacks to contracts of the size that “good” quarterbacks normally receive is a route to trapping your team into mediocrity.
The argument that folks typically use for getting rid of Geno is not that he isn’t an NFL average quarterback, it’s that the value of an NFL average quarter in terms of salary cap implications will hamstring the team in the long-run. The reason for starting a worse quarterback at a far lower salary is that you believe the most likely path to winning a superbowl involves acquiring a top-tier quarterback … and if there isn’t one currently on the roster, then everything else needs to be constructed to prepare for one (hopefully through the draft, for best return relative to resources used). I think the raw-raw folks simply aren’t able to wrap their minds around concepts like this, even to refute the argument (which requires understanding it in the first place).
no frickin clue
Rob I think you’re being quite fair.
Geno Smith has now played the equivalent of a full season (17 games) after the 2022 bye week. If you aggregate his stats over that period, this is what you find:
Completions: 390
Attempts: 591
Completion %: 66.0
Yards Passing: 4,232
TDs: 26
INTs: 15
Average Yds per Attempt: 7.16
Average QB Rating: 90.5
These are the hallmarks of an average QB.
Using pro football reference, a 66% completion rate ranks 16th this season, and a 7.16 average yards per attempt ranks 15th. A QB Rating of 90.5 ranks 17th.
Asking to get more value out of what you have at your disposal is not hating on the team. Asking to roll the dice on a potential QB of the future in 2024 is not hating on Geno Smith. It is just recognizing that what we have is probably just good enough to secure a wildcard berth, and then to watch us get trounced by a team with real championship potential.
Peter
People keep talking about building around Geno. At this point I’m not sure what else they could do.
Jabroni-DC
You just keep adding talent & work to find that QB in a Haystack while you’re at it.
Peter
I meant more the investments in RB’s, WR’s, TE’s, oline at this point for building around Geno. If all this isn’t working and it needs an overhaul we’re in a bigger trouble than we know.
geoff u
Look, if we can just pile more and more bricks on the crumbling foundation, we might just end up with a big ol pile of bricks. Wait…
I still think a good deal of this toxic positivity is media-driven.
I probably consume as much Seahawks-related media as anyone and some days I just have to shut it off because it is so relentlessly positive.
It’s like I’m being gaslighted from Monday-Saturday. Being told one thing, and Sunday rolls around and I don’t see anything close to what was written-tweeted-blogged about.
-Week after week Pete Carroll has made excuses for Geno Smith, just like he did in the RW era, but for the defense (my favorite was the Buffalo game..’we didn’t plan for them to pass so much and that’s why they absolutely shredded us’ but also ‘we had a shot if Russ doesn’t turn the ball over so much’). I have not heard a single question about ‘why isn’t this offense in synch?’ ‘If Geno is throwing balls to nowhere, expecting receivers to break and they don’t, what in blazes is going on? How was Geno working with the WRs alone, in OTAs, in camp and every week in practice not enough?’ And ‘if this offensive line is so poor, and that’s a big part of the problem, why do you keep calling plays that require Geno to hold the ball and wait for routes to develop?’ and ‘Where is the point where you put the excuses aside and decide that Geno just simply has to be better?’
-The Seattle Times wrote a story on how Leonard Williams is benefitting the whole DL. They quoted comments from PC and Dre Jones about how Dre ‘can now play his natural position’ because LW is on the interior. Not one mention was made of exactly why the Seahawks thought spending $18m a year on a free agent and then playing him at his unnatural position was ridiculously silly. Let alone that Dre was left to cover a RB in the pass game and failed spectacularly on that 48-yard dumpoff. Nor any discussion of ‘the Seahawks paid a huge price for LW, they need every game from here on out to be like this to get even close to breaking even.’
-2-3x a week a beat reporter from one of the more reputable sports publications out there tweets All-12 or other footage of a single brilliant Geno Smith throw. Usually on the heels of a very poor game by Geno which should have cost them more than it did. The comments immediately jump on board the Geno train and anyone who doesn’t think he is brilliant obviously did not watch that one single throw.
-All beat reporters seem very quick to retweet those obscure PFF style stats that highlight good things by players. “X did not allow any pressures or sacks in 55 snaps Sunday” or “Geno Smith’s numbers in play action are sparkling” or “CB only allowed a 44 QB rating Sunday.” In isolation, they’re fine and stoke the positivity. But the game in its entirety showed 1-Geno getting pressured a lot, 2-Geno being absolutely below-pedestrian in the other non-play action calls, 3-the fact that a safety or a LB got absolutely shredded in coverage and all three of those things nearly cost them the game.
-Recently a beat reporter dusted off an alltime classic. In response to legitimate concerns about Geno Smith he tweeted, ‘boy just think of what these fans would say if this were the 1992 seahawks’ which led to a whole sidetracking of the issue with greybearded fans joking about Stan Gelbaugh and calling out anyone who wasn’t a fan of Jack Patera and Effren Herrera as late-coming poseurs.
I understand that reporters have to be balanced. They can’t rail at PC every press conference, asking harsh questions all the time.
But part of the reason SDB gets so much traction (and hate) is we’re talking about these issues without that lens of blinding positivity to every aspect. I just wish we had someone closer to what Joe Fann was. Covering the beat, not letting Pete shrug off real questions, or stopping because Pete teased them about bulldogging him.
Those end-of-year press conferences where Pete rubs gravel through his hair and finally straight-talks with the press are brutal. It’s the one time the mask slips and we get to see what he actually thinks about the team. If we had even occasionally more balanced press coverage, we would get so, so much more as fans.
And I agree on the use of gaslighting as an accurate description here
AlaskaHawk
I get all that, but I still think that this blog fan base is caught in a negative feedback loop. I even do it myself. I comment on the bad plays and the screwups all the time.
But if we as fans on this blog are conditioned into this negative loop, what makes you think that we will ever pull out of it? You can get the QB of your dreams and have something wrong with the rest of the team like poor defense. It’s obviously an issue with drafting, veterans chosen and pay amounts, and coaching. And we as fans will say the same negative stuff because we are now conditioned to react to anything short of Superbowl performance level. That’s a fine goal but it’s not realistic to judge everything during the season by that criteria. We already know they won’t make it this year (see I’m being negative) so why beat a dead horse?
I just don’t see an end to the loop. But apparently some guys are reacting to what they think is too much positivity out there on other sites. Maybe it’s just the fan base being happy for once. Or maybe as Rob mentioned that he could get more clicks if he reacted more positively – maybe the other sites have made a business decision for clicks.
You can’t just create a thought about ‘this blog’ and establish that as truth. There’s a wide variety of opinions on this blog. We also spend considerable time talking about draft prospects, stuff we find amusing, hating the Niners, lots of things.
To narrow an entire community down to being in a ‘negative loop’ because negatives are discussed too and then posit that it may never end, to me is neither accurate nor a helpful thing to talk about.
AlaskaHawk
I hear what your saying Rob. My comment is based strictly on fan comments made during the last game on this blog. Not on comments made based on articles.
I’ve often experienced comments during the game are more passionate and knee-jerk than after we’ve had time to absorb the full impact and reason out what it means for the team.
Blitzy the Clown
I think that’s a different thing Alaska
I’m guilty of doing that too — of being critical, even sharply critical, in my blog comments during the game when the team pulls a boner. But that’s emotion, Game Day emotion.
As opposed to sort of a worldview of the state of the team one develops over time. Which every fan does to his or her own proclivities.
What’s really discouraging to me is the inability (unwillingness?) of some fans — of both stripes relentlessly positive and the negative nellies — to engage in open, thoughtful discussion about our collective rainbow of Seahawks worldviews.
Except for this blog. Long live SDB.
Footnote: I have noticed a shift in majority opinion of the fans I see commenting on twitter. Used to be overwhelmingly positive. And now I’d say it’s slightly majority negative (realistic?) and slightly minority rose glasses.
Also noticing an increasing number of fans who, like me, acknowledge the reality of our QB situation (we need a new one), while remaining supportive and encouraging of Smith while he remains our leader.
pdway
My two cents is that I think you can hold more than one thought in your head at the same time – and it’s totally fine to both think Geno isn’t the answer and the Hawks aren’t a SB contender, while also enjoying every good aspect of the team, and every single win.
Where I agree w you is in the life-is-short, enjoy the good stuff while you can category, and if you’re a Hawks fan for 30 years, and are only happy for 2 of them, that feels like a bad equation to me. There’s a lot of very legit stressers in the world, and while a bad Hawks loss like the Ravens last week can bum me out for days, I try to keep the rest of it in perspective. And I agree, to each his own, which is why the only sentiment I don’t like from some commenters on here (and maybe it’s a reaction to other places on the internet), is that if you aren’t equally as critical, then you are a rainbows and unicorns purveyor, and somehow a less serious fan. Because I don’t think that’s right either.
I will say this – the blog, and the commenters, make this an interesting place that keeps me coming back, in large part b/c of a willingess to poke at things. I mean, who wants to watch a movie where everyone agrees about everytyhing and nothing bad ever happens?
Thanks. I try not to use buzzwords but gaslighting is the most apt description I can think of. (and for the record, I’ve actually seen the fantastic movie that the word was derived from)
My other this week was “Seahawks held Commanders to 68 yards rushing! Run defense back!”
First off, they only ran 14 times. So 4.85y/rush is hardly a dominating ground defense.
And secondly, they used the RBs as receivers. Quite effectively. 11 catches-161 yards – 2 Touchdowns. That’s the difference in the game right there.
And what’s more, they were so poorly defended that their coverage responsible defenders weren’t even on the screen when they caught the ball.
But sure, run defense back, baby.
Elmer
I watched the start of the game until Washington’s 50+ yard TD play. The defense looked so bad I had to quit for awhile.
Then I read that DreMont Jones is replacing Nwosu. Does that mean they playing a 4-3 while pretending to play a 3-4.
Now we are clinging to stats that have Geno below Derek Carr (who must also be great after all), ranks ‘one game’ Kyler Murray at the top and has Kenny Pickett in the top-10.
Kenny. Pickett.
A perfect example of what you’re talking about Curtis.
This is exactly the problem. You can find stats to prove anything. These guys aren’t reporters or writers. They are car salesmen. And most of them work are selling for the Seattle Seahawks.
How has he played when watching the game? That is basically it.
Being positive about the team = lots of likes. It means getting RT’s from Quandre Diggs and Bob Condotta.
So why wouldn’t you find the stat that paints Geno in a positive light? Who cares if it basically means nothing because the rest of the list includes Carr & Pickett with a QB who has played one game at the top?
This is just another form of Top Billin saying everything is awesome. And people buy it.
Peter
A lot of this Cha.
Continuing on I’ve listened to just in this week two different pics talking about how no one could survive that Ravens 50% pressure rate…does anyone know what that even is, seriously?
And also heard that Geno somehow has the 6th longest time in the pocket to throw.
Which is it?
Listened to a pretty big voice explian that Seattle ‘actually’ has the 12th offense in the league when viewed from advanced metrics. I know how we arrive at that number. But this is obscuring what is going on to a degree.
RMK-LouCityHawk
Calling Rob overly negative is kind of like a joke to me when I read it or hear it.
He is not a groupthink person, and the other non-groupthink Seahawks media outlets or positers get hit with the same brush. Haters one week, homers the next, it all depends on the narrative.
All I ask of anyone is their honest opinion. Said this on another site, but I was not worried that mixing it up with Rob over our DLine assessments (or any other issue) being different would lead to a ban, if it did I’d laugh about it and move on.
I actually don’t know how Rob handles some of the commenters he faces with such earnestness.
The toxic positivity in some quarters of this fan base is real though, and it seems to be growing, I’ve found one wellspring of it, I’m sure there are others.
Nothing said in that video is controversial, overly negative, or even controversial…except if you are of the belief that only the most immediate games should be discussed, no forward looking allowed, and that walking into the VMAC imbues you with magic ‘can’t be wrong’ powder.
The sad thing is that Seahawks fans are made of much sterner stuff, certainly were in the Holmgren era and before. Success hasn’t spoiled this fan base, it’s perhaps made it soft.
James Z
A lot of ground was covered in the 22+ minutes. All of it reasonable, much of it insightful and well-spoken. I do think that PC would get more out of his current players and any bluechip additions, especially from the upcoming draft if his coaches were better. It’s the coaches’ role that brings the best out of developing players at the skill level, IMO. Pete’s great at the inspirational and philosophical areas. Hurtt and Waldron seem short on accomplishing those tasks.
As far as the negativity towards Rob much of it is the toxic nature of social media and even into some more traditional forms of media. It’s almost like starving a pack of rabid dogs then loosing them toward individuals in someone’s crosshairs.
Saw one last night where the kid has us take……a tackle….
This the season I guess.
Peter
I’m closer to tackle that can play inside than I am for the 100th draft pick spent in a safety.
GoHawks5151
Gotta spotlight my guy Tali Fuaga, OT Oregon State! If he goes 11 I’ll be doing flips. Most of y’all will get a good look Saturday
Thomas
I agree with you on most what you said Rob. My one slight disagreement is that I believe they evaluated Smith as the better prospect for the playoffs today. I think Lock would have been better than Smith is now by the end of the season, but that likely would have meant losing one or two more games to get him there. It’s not like Lock is Gardner Minshew or Jacoby Brissett. He really needs some more reps for us to see what we have.
I do wonder if the fan demand for positivity is related to what Carroll has done with the team. He’s kind of a positive psychology guy and it has worked on occasion. Golden Tate looked like bust until he wasn’t. I think Carroll figures he can coach players into consistent high performance provided they’ve shown something and aren’t jerks. I remember Tony Pauline once complimented the Seahawks on their ability to develop players.
Those are my thoughts. I generally agree with you and support you speaking your mind. There’s no need to always say something positive.
Thanks for your hard work.
Andy Heck 66
Good video. Agree with most everything stated.
The only thing I would throw out is the league seems way more watered down and gettable than in recent years.
A lot of old good qbs have been retired/injured replaced by middling guys. + Russ and Allen are regressing. ANd Mahomes is no longer cheap.
Something is going on with offenses where they are all seemingly worse than before especially in the redzone.
So I do not think the Seahawks are playing at a normal championship level. But think whoever wins the super bowl this year might be an outlier and relatively weak champ.
I think there are a lot wider amount of teams that could win this year because no team is very good. So I don’t think this year is hopeless, even though I do agree with your plans to get a qb/trenches, ditch safeties for a brighter future.
Romeo A57
The 2023 Seahawks most likely outcome is to get slaughtered in the Wild Card round. The Defense is below average and the offense is inconsistent. That is with one of the easier schedules to this point.
What does it say about the Seahawks Organization that they are not a contender in this watered down NFL?
Peter
I’ve seen a lot of comments in this wheelhouse, the any given sunday variety, lately so I checked some historical notes.
I remember Tampa getting hot and winning. Perhaps the eagles to a degree.
The other teams that won since and including us were division winners with pretty solid margins of victory.
But I don’t care about them. I care about us. So I had to look at 2013 again. When we didn’t move the goalposts all season long. I had forgot that we lost three games by a combined score of 15 points. 15.
I also have been hearing a revision of sorts but was surprised by remembering that we used to crush teams. To retell it is sort if to believe that all the games were fieldgoal nailbiters. But there were in fact enough beatdowns and convincing wins to say that wasn’t the case. We just handled our business and didn’t hope to get hot. We were hot and stayed hot until the confetti came down from the rafters.
I know people will say the margins are razor thin and do this dance where if we lose or win to team ‘×’ but team ‘y’ it goes another way then that means the fickle winds are always blowing.
But they are not. It is far less likely that the just good enough team takes the prize. Luck, injury, all play apart. But the vast majority of winners this century were actually among the best teams going into the game. Maybe not the best defense or best offense but certainly not teams that are around mid to lower in the pack on both sides of the ball.
Romeo A57
I hope that I am absolutely wrong about this team being average and that they look like a legitimate contender in 5 weeks. Would love to write in the comments on this blog what an idiot I was to not see greatness this year.
As has been stated here, we have seen this same movie over and over again since 2014 and it has the same unfortunate ending
Peter
Myself and Geoffu were commenting how great it would be if Geno somehow just passed the halfway point get all those incentives? During this upcoming stretch? The team would feel unstoppable.
That’s where I’m a little off with Alaska but don’t disagree with him generally.
Everyone told anyone that would listen that this teams offense was going to be electric. Nine games in its flat as a pancake and now there’s chatter that somehow there’s too many weapons. Unbelievable. Imagine in his prime Sean Payton ( maybe he’s still in it?) With brees talking about too many choice..
The defense us raw and the really good players are young. Let’s bombs away on dropping points on other teams and let the defense cover its flaws by putting into pressure situations..
Just anything.
Blitzy the Clown
Disagree this offense is flat as a pancake
It’s like the Alps. Lots of peaks with low, low valleys in between.
One of my buddies is a guy who does not like your commentary he does not like your analysis and he believes you are too negative. It makes me laugh because I want to Pete Carroll fired since 2016. You always have problems with fans like my buddy. He considers himself glass half full and constantly refers to life that way. He enjoys his safe spaces. He is constantly telling me that I’m so negative and I look at the Dark Side of Life etc etc I try to get through this by asking him questions in regards to football like what is your objective with the Seahawks as a fan? What do you want to see? If you ask me that question I want Super Bowl wins I want Super Bowl quality teams. He doesn’t even think that way he is perfectly happy with 9 to 10 wins and getting into the playoffs and this is why I think you will always have problems with these types of fans they’re just happy getting by. If this were not true in Seattle why did they bring back Ken Griffey Jr when he was a washed up player and think that this was the hope diamond? Why do fans here constantly look at a good defensive game against a piss poor opponent and then think this is 2013 all over again? Everything is nostalgic with this fan base. They still talk about Edgar Martinez for god sakes. They still talk about Matt hassle back they still talk about Steve Largent. You’re an analyst you have to analyze as it is but most of these fans they don’t want the ex’s and o’s they just look at the record and say six and three we should be really happy so shut up all you negative naysayers. I guarantee you you won’t win this one with these fans. My buddy we just don’t see eye to eye in regards to the Seahawks because I want different things than he does I want Super Bowls and he’s just happy with being competitive and I think that’s why you won’t get Pete doing what you outline inner video because I think that he just likes to compete he just likes the process I don’t think he’s attached to the end result. He won the Super Bowl because what he brought from college was unique but I don’t think he’s getting back there
By the way I should point out he doesn’t like you he doesn’t like your analysis but he reads your articles as soon as they come out. I suspect that that is the case with a lot of your critics. My buddy even subscribed to Seaside Joe because he knows Kenneth Arthur doesn’t like you. And then of course he has to complain that all Kenneth does is beg for money and right about how privileged his readership is to get his great wisdom. That always brings me a smile
Great video Rob, and I agree with everything you said; but I’m sad that you felt you needed to justify your opinions. I doubt any other blogger, vlogger or PNW media specialist spends as much time really studying the NFL, the Hawks, and college players as you have done for YEARS. So don’t let the bastards get you down.
The Seahawks remind me of a restaurant I used to work at and loved to eat at. Great food, right on the ocean, a staff that really cared to provide the best service. I had always talked up this restaurant to friends and family, and when I had the chance to go back home (after a decade away), I took my mom to eat there.
The place looked the same, still had their trademark dessert, but the place was not the same. Food wasn’t as good, the wait staff was not as attentive as they used to be, and I never saw a manager. The view was still nice, but my remembrance of the restaurant didn’t jibe with the present.
The Seahawks are the same way. We remember the glory days in 2013 when we were at the top and it felt like this team could be a dynasty; could win the next five Super Bowls. In 2014 we had our hearts broken, but damn that team was still good. Then we slowly began to decline, just like my favorite restaurant. The faces changed as the years went by. We lost a lot of that magic, but for a lot of fans, all they could remember was how good it felt in 2013; the expression on Manning’s face when that shotgun snap went thattaway.
I want to remember how good that felt, but more importantly, I want to feel it again. And living in the past won’t get us there. We will have a very hard time recreating the LOB, building that DL that raced to the QB. A singular running back that made people forget Curt Warner, Shawn Alexander, and Ricky Watters. A corny, fearless QB fresh in the league who thought “why not us?” That’ll never happen, and it’s a waste of time to seek to reclaim that.
What we need to do is realize how much the league has changed since 2013. How important offense is vice defense. How different positions have changed in value. Safeties used to be invaluable, now they’re a commodity. Running backs are now a commodity. The best value is in the trenches, in WR/TE, and most importantly the QB.
When I look at the current roster, I see two consistently good players. Tyler Lockett and Jason Myers (albeit overpaid). Everyone else is too inconsistent. Can you build around Reed? Maybe. Can you build around ‘Spoon? Hopefully. Boye is a good player but I don’t see greatness.
Everyone else is too old, overpaid, or replacement level. I hope the last two draft classes pan out better, but I think while the draft choices were good, the players still need to deliver. And PC/JS need to stop with signing retreads of their own players. I love Bwagz, but he’s a shell of the player he used to be and shouldn’t be part of our future plans. Same with Dissly. Glad he overcame diversity with his injuries, but too much $$ for a player of his caliber.
I hope I’m being too pessimistic, and if this ragtag crew can get to the SB, I’ll be cheering as loud as anyone. But I’ve been watching this team since 1976 and have learned that just because you want something, doesn’t mean you’re going to get it.
Anyway, keep up the fantastic work and illegitimi non carborundum…
I think you made some great points there (and thank you, too)
Peter
This is a solid analogy as a near two decade vet of Seattle’s restaurant world.
Starhawk29
In regards to perceived negativity, I think you really touched the surface of it in the video. Positivity, especially in dreary seattle, sells. As the journalism industry adjusts to this attention oriented world, struggling publications (let’s use the Tacoma News Tribune and Gregg bell) focus on what attracts attention in the given market. It is very clear what sells well in this market. Many seahawks fans want the team to be a sunny place they can escape to, not another reason to feel annoyed.
The end result is what we’ve seen too often in most of the media: distortion of facts and sensationalism to generate attention. That’s what makes sites like this special. The purpose of SDB isn’t to generate attention, but to approach the team from a team building/GM perspective. The brutal honesty with which a GM has to operate is the antithesis of the other approach. A GM doesn’t get a bonus because the team garnered likes on social media. They get paid for their analysis and decision making.
Regardless of what anyone says, Robs analysis stands on its own two feet. That’s why I come back over and over. Other outlets sell escapism, (or themselves like Seaside Joe), but here it’s cold hard reality on sale. We all get to choose if we want to live in fantasyland, where Geno Smith is a franchise QB and Jamal Adams is a DPOY candidate, or in reality. Reality, is confronting, harsh, and often depressing, but that makes it no less real.
Parallax
Accidentally posted this in response to the wrong article. I’m new here so forgive me while I learn the ropes. Parenthetically, I appreciate a community where one has freedom to express frustration with the team. Or, rather, to be real about whatever one is experiencing. I wouldn’t bother to take the time to write my thoughts if there wasn’t freedom to be honest and I wouldn’t be interested in reading the thoughts of any commentator who wasn’t authentic. I’m not interested in being or finding a cheerleader. I appreciate honest analysis. (Below is what I wrote earlier today and posted to yesterday’s thread.)
Until now, I thought it was too soon for Seattle to pick a QB in the draft. Build the rest of the team first, I thought. But now we’re going into year three of the rebuild and it feels like the time is right.
I was feeling pretty confident about the Hawks’ brain trust given how solid the last two draft classes were but now, after the Williams trade, I’m back to where I used to live. No trust whatsoever in our front office. I’m sorry to say I wouldn’t be shocked if they didn’t pick a QB and picked up Geno’s contract. It’s disheartening to feel that way about one’s team but I can’t think of any excuse for the idiotic Williams trade. A 2nd and a 5th for a ten game rental? Seriously?
I know people will say it’s alright if we re-sign him. I don’t see it that way. He was going to be a free agent. Could have signed him in the off season for free. Second, signing him means letting someone else go. The guy’s alright but it’s not like we got Aaron Donald. I’m not at all confident that he’s worth signing.
The other day, Rob said in his podcast that, having traded for him, we need to sign him. I disagree. That’s what economists call a sunk cost fallacy. We already gave up way too much draft capital. Signing him does nothing to change that. Either he’s worth signing now as if he were a free agent or he’s not. Which depends of course on how much we would have to pay him and how good his performance, going forward, is likely to be.
Unfortunately, I’m in a really bad space as a Seattle fan. I’ve been a fan for a long time. I remember the team under Chuck Knox. There were some terrible teams back in the day. However, I don’t remember ever feeling more hopeless because at least those teams knew they sucked and the front office was trying to do better. It feels now like maybe the Hawks are high on their own supply, thinking the team is just fine, even good — when anyone with eyes can see that the team, overall, is mediocre, with a few players who are good (i.e. Dickson) and a few who show real strong promise (Witherspoon, Mafe, Walker, etc.). Or maybe we’re stuck in a rut because Jody Allen plans to sell the team soon and doesn’t want to rock the apple cart before then. Whatever the cause, this is my least favorite time to be a Hawk.
Chris
What has two thumbs and understands Sunk Costs?
Parallax.
(apologies if you don’t actually have two thumbs)
Nice to see when someone gets it. Being able to identify something like the sunk cost fallacy is absolutely required when thinking about how GMs do their job, especially since this seems to be a super easy fallacy for people to fall victim to, even one’s that are normally very solid in their analytics. I seriously think Schneider/Pete are unable to identify it in certain circumstances, which is a big problem as it will inevitably be a major issue every time they trade for a player that is soon to be a free agent (ie. “rental” players). The “need” to resign Adams after trading for him, and what might be perceived as a “need” to resign Williams after trading for him are classic examples. The trades for these players should have 0 bearing on the later decision on whether or not to resign them (and for how much to pay them), but I have no confidence Schneider/Pete will see it that way. It doesn’t mean don’t resign them either … and the fact they made a trade for those players in the first place may suggest they value those players more than the rest of the “market”, but I’ve seen far too much conflating of what should be independent decisions to have much trust that sunk cost fallacies aren’t being made on a regular basis regarding trades/free agents.
Chris
I should also point out, that if someone thinks the later decision to resign a player is connected to the initial trade to get them, they are more likely to overpay in draft capital to acquire the player in the first place … an action that seems to be a classic Schneider move. Unless one recognizes the trade can only logically be viewed as a short-term rental, they will be unable to recognize that it probably isn’t worth much draft capital to make that trade in the first place.
Parallax
Thanks for your comment, Chris. It’s good to be around thoughtful and analytics friends with whom one can share insights. Rob’s a smart guy and there are many smart voices in this community.
JimN
Rob, thanks for taking time to talk at length about the issues that are important to you. This is totally the best Seahawks site anywhere. We are allowed to disagree and discuss. Yet in our western culture today, that is not allowed. You have to be in one camp or another. Everyone needs to know how to define everyone else. I love the discussion, or argument, but i believe people here are genuine and care about others opinion and for the most part will listen and sometimes even change there opinion.
Your 3 big opinions are totally valid. They aren’t negative, they are pragmatic. Pete will need to retire sometime and was probably the cause of some of the bad drafting and trading up to the last couple of drafts. We have seen a shift, and i think it is JS doing it. I think JS is now taking the lead in most things, and while many don’t like the Williams trade, i think it makes sense, if the goal is to restructure next year and resign him.
Pete needs to keep using Geno because of the $$ committment. I agree with many here who think that Lock would probably be better. He has NEVER imo had a real opportunity to show what he can do. He did a bit when Geno was injured, and i think the entire countance of the offense raised by many beets. He has the youthful energay that is needed. To make this change now though, quite possiblly really disrupt the team. I am hoping they trade Geno, keep Lock and draft the QBOTF.
Getting rid of the safety salary is way overdue. AM hoping this happens this off season.
Finally, i think we might have TOO MANY offensive weapons that dilutes their effectiveness. Are we going to be PASS first or RUN first? We have the weapons for either. But wondering if the game plan is influenced by the most vocal stars? If we really want to be run first, we need to make that commitment not just at RB but on the OL as well. I think they are going in this direction. YET, then you waste all these weapons we now have. They are all competing for touches. Personally, i would trade DK as we really don’t need him do we? Would our passing game fall apart? Couldn’t we use that for draft capital or upfront somewhere? I think this might happen.
The Wilson trade was magnificent. Selling at the peak of value. We should continue to do this.
Rob, you are best in NFL drafting and we have all been afraid you will get offered some big Front office job and then you wouldn’t be able to do the blog.
Keep it up.
Denver Hawker
Many fans confusing negativity for honesty and clarity.
I think if this blog as sort of a truth seeker oasis. I climbed out of the cave years ago. Early on, I found some of the in-season takes quite extreme, but realized later that viewing the Hawks team more objectively brought so much more clarity.
Rob was beating a drum about Russ and Pete rift years before the trade. In another millennium he would have been burned at the stake. Living out of state for so many years, I’ve come to appreciate the clarity that other fans and objective viewing can bring.
Unfortunately it’s probably going to take several more years of WC losses to the Niners for blue pilled fans to come around- and they’ll still hate this blog.
jo
They are exactly as I predicted before the season 8-9/9-8 but more likely to be 9-8 and get in the playoffs through the backdoor and probably one and same song and dance. Also I think Spencer Rattler is a pipe dream at this point unless they are willing to trade up which will be very hard without a 2nd round pick.
Ground_Hawk
Is it negative to have the opinion that Seattle is not as good as San Fran, Philly, Ravens, or Chiefs?
Is it negative to say that statistically Seattle is currently below league average in most important defensive and offensive stats?
Chris
As long as they are properly contextualized, statements of facts are neither positive or negative.
Forrest
Rob,
Per your request, here are my responses:
1) Positivity – I come to SDB for the truth, both positive and negative. You can’t be accountable if you’re not honest. If SDB was only positive, it’d be no different from anywhere else. I appreciate that you offer real and heart-felt commentary and provide a space for others to do the same.
2) Pete Carroll – I agree that Pete can win a Super Bowl. My problem with Pete is that I think he can be better. There’s room for him to improve, but he seems reluctant to improve on his weaknesses. Discipline is #1 at the top of this list and I think it’s absolutely fair to criticize that his teams seem to consistently lack discipline. I firmly believe this is fixable and not in conflict with the player friendly environment that he fosters. Take the following observations about discipline from only the first half of last week’s game:
*Mafe not staying with this assignment (the RB), costs us 6 points.
*Someone please tell JSN he’s going to get flagged if he points in the defender’s face after the play. We don’t need to lose 15 yards to an unnecessary lapse of judgment.
*How do we have another 4th down delay of game??? This goes with the wasted time outs that we have seemingly every game, except even the time out here was too late to stop this loss of 5 yards (Pete where were you?).
*Another Jamal Adams mistackle
*More mistackles. Why do Pete coached teams miss so many tackles? This is a theme.
*Someone please tell Jamal Adams to get out of the face of the receiver after the play is over. Again, we don’t need to lose 15 yards to an unnecessary lapse of judgment. The play is over, go to the sideline. Your helmet in his face could cost us!
*Dropped pass by JSN, lack of discipline. Make the catch first, then run.
*Ugh. DK, watch how close the first down signal you’re making with your arm is to the defender’s face! It’s not necessary and we could lose 15 yards.
*Stop the extracurriculars after the Leonard Williams sack. Totally unnecessary self-created liabilities. Why would we risk a penalty after having stopped them?
*Ineligible man downfield on the kick. Daryl Taylor shows a lack of discipline.
*Completion in bounds with 2:35 to go, just let it go to the 2 minute warning. Clock management. We want to leave them with no time after we score and we’re already inside the 20. After the possession, Washington has one time out left now that they wouldn’t otherwise have. Thankfully, it didn’t bite us.
*Why did we call time out with 15 seconds to go? Take it down to 3 seconds and call time out. Terrible clock management. Now we lose 3 points because Geno doesn’t realize the situation and holds the ball too long – another discipline issue!
*Pete says at halftime the first half wasn’t “clean”.
*Another big play for WA because Dre’Mont Jones doesn’t stay with his assignment (RB). Lack of discipline! Also, that’s twice that a big man in coverage has cost us – and they only have two big plays.
3) Geno – i completely agree. We should be paying a rookie contract, a superstar or a cheap Baker Mayfield type, not $35-40M for Geno. Ask this – if we cut him, what would another team be willing to pay? That’s what we should be paying!
4) Safeties – I completely agree! Why did we pay Diggs when he was hurt? Then Pete excused away his poor play last year on the long recovery. Then we didn’t cut him in the offseason. Now we’re paying him for bottom of the league production. Adams is almost the exact same story. Ask yourself, what would another team pay them if we cut them? Exactly! Cut them both! Invest this money in the trenches, as you said. Pete used to talk about being the bully (isn’t it interesting that we haven’t heard that from him in awhile?). Since Lynch, I haven’t felt we could impose our will on any opponent in the ground game. Go get a Steve Hutchinson! A true guard/mauler! I agree, a stud guard or center.
#2 – good stuff man. All very legit points, but the loss of a FG attempt at the end of the first half was beyond egregious. I’m not excusing this stuff and certainly a more “buttoned down” HC would get most of it cleaned up, but I’m pretty numb to the blown time-outs, delay on 4th and 1, etc. But that blown FG attempt was a new stupidity low in the Carroll era to my memory.
Since Rob brought up talking about qb’s and really that is my only focus this draft season some very early thoughts:
( full disclosure I don’t watch or care about the following: Williams because no one is trading out of him. Maye, same. And Penix I believe is going top 15 and Seattle as of today is picking #26 so my focus is in who Seattle could draft)
Jordan Travis. Runs with that duck, dodge, and dive energy of maybe Lamar. Beautiful arm on deep passes. I’m personally a sucker for QB’s that throw stunning passes down field though that’s probably a stupid thing to covet because I’d expect something like 90+% of all throws in the NFL are around nine yards.
Also second coming of Wilson in size. Listed at 6’1″ 212lb. So when I apply my ‘real measurement calculator’* trademark pending…let’s say 6’ flat and 200 lbs.
Will Howard: has officially moved into future casting mode for me. He’s big. He’s way faster and more decisive running than most. Has a soft, poochy build of a big kid that can sack on some strength in a few years.
Also I’ve never seen so much content made about a qb that has nothing to do with their skills and everything to do with who they are.
But. As a qb that fits very squarely into “what could be,” he’s been dogged on basically every year he’s been in school. A multi time back up passed over for other players from incumbent always injured starters to transfer portal anointed starters and just keeps grinding it out.
I wonder what a guy with size, speed, strength,the ability to throw lasers sometimes, cannons, and deceptive RPO fake hand offs could do if they had some real training and weren’t always a begrudging ‘option #2’.
BK26
Just me comparing notes: with Howard, as soon as Rob mentioned how well he can layer his throws, I had that thought the day before when I finally got through the Texas game. And about him being a bit of an underdog, WHY THE HELL ARE THEY STILL SPLITTING CARRIES?? I say splitting loosely, it isn’t as bad as the past. But one drive had the freshman backup in. And he did zero.
Yet Howard didn’t play well but dragged them back into the game. He had one touchdown in particular that was over the receiver’s shoulder and phenomenal catch. Yet Howard put it where only Brooks could get it.
I want to watch more tape on Travis. I do already know that I want him over Daniels. Daniels looks the same as he did at ASU to me, and if you take out Burrow, the LSU (and Brian Kelly) quarterbacks just don’t pan out. Don’t really trust him.
Still need and want to watch Cook, Leonard, and Ewers (will watch the last two until it’s confirmed that they are going back). I’ve watched very little with Cook, but was intrigued. Has a little swagger to him that Lock never had at Mizzou. Also watched very little of Leonard, but was impressed with his pocket awareness. Doesn’t look like he gets overwhelmed.
Peter
If Seattle drafts Daniels I won’t care one way or the other.
I het his build and see a guy getting injured easily. Looks all the world to me like Geno in college.
I’ve paused a bit in Leonard due to injury.
I really like what I saw with Travis. It’s just the height for me.
Haven’t watched any Cook yet.
Ewers….just don’t know if Seattle is the team for him. I see him in my mind with a real OC and not someone who may be flummoxed by too many choices.
I kind of can see him in Denver. As they work their way out if the Williams sweepstakes.
BK26
The combo of where Ewers is, his inconsistencies, and our coaching staff’s inability to develop ANYONE scares the hell out of me if we drafted him.
Greg Olson was definitely brought in for a reason. He specializes in developing too much. I just don’t trust Pete and Waldron. At all.
I could definitely see Payton wanting him and buying one more year of Russ to get Ewers ready. And we can finally see what happens when Russ has a legit young guy behind him.
Peter
Btw….what in the world is with the k-state reporters?
A good never great program with maybe the most critical beat reporters relative to program size.
I saw a clip where the TE Ben Sitton basically told them all to pound sand on their constant critiques of Howard.
Pete and Co. Would get eaten alive out in the flatlands.
BK26
Wow really. The guy is the reason that they had a close game with Texas, let alone a chance to win it. They haven’t had it too badly with quarterbacks. I found out that Colin Klein is the OC (Heisman finalist, played against Geno in college).
He has at least gotten coaching that will prepare him for the NFL. They have guys take off immediately, at different positions.
Valerie
Thanks Rob. You are spot on with respect to your three main points. Championships are won in the trenches and at QB — not at safety. Until we pay as much attention to our D line as we have just done with our OTs, we will not make it to the NFC championship game let alone the Super Bowl. I fear that PC’s ego is so invested in JA that he won’t make the change, and that Diggs is considered somehow a leader that cannot be cut. I tremendously appreciate your pragmatism. I don’t read it as negativity, but rather a clear-eyed analysis of the team and its needs going forward. I am eager for the day when your honest assessment is all sunshine and flowers, because that means we have a team that is in true contention for another SB win. Thanks for your in-depth insights and analysis — you are the best in the business!
I read a comment yesterday that said Leonard Williams buying a house in Seattle is proof he’s signing an extension this season.
You can’t make this stuff up.
Denver Hawker
Hopefully buying Dre Jones’ house
Gross MaToast
I heard he also signed up for a Safeway card so that he can save 20c on yogurt, or something. He’s really putting down roots here.
king
Great breakdown. I can quibble with your conclusions while still agreeing completely with the spirit of the presentation.
Can Pete Carroll win another Super Bowl is the real sticking point for me. Sure, if you give him one of the finest collections of talent that has ever been assembled, Pete’s approach to the game can win a Super Bowl.
It is unlikely that Seattle will be able to even come close to that level of talent again. There were 6 potential Hall of Famers on those teams in their prime, with 3 of them in the secondary alone.
There are a lot of coaches that can win a Super Bowl with that kind of talent.
The question is whether or not Pete can win a Super Bowl in the modern NFL with a very good, but not historic, roster.
The answer seems to be, if he does this differently or that differently, he can. Pete is likely the reason for the disproportionate salaries going to safeties. Pete not only believes in a point guard at quarterback, but doesn’t want to be too dependent on quarterback play, while the rest of the league embraces the concept knowing the risks of putting so many eggs in one basket, because quarterback play is the single biggest correlation to playoff success. Even the guys like Flacco and Foles, who weren’t consistently elite, had fantastic runs in their Super Bowl seasons.
Pete needs a better coaching staff, but he puts that group together and to outward appearances, doing things the way Pete wants them done is far more important than finding the people who would shine when given more control.
Can Pete win a Super Bowl in 2023+? Sure, if he stops being Pete Carroll and acts more like a modern head coach.
Peter
Not sure why people feel Pete wants less at QB.
The guy admitted they won a ton of games because of Wilson.
He had Palmer, Sanchez, and Leinart. All different but all stars during their runs.
king
I did not mean to imply that he wants anything other than a quality quarterback. It was more about his philosophy of the quarterback’s role and the words are basically straight from the horse’s mouth.
I believe Pete’s biggest flaw is an overestimation of both his approach to the game and how close his team is to being able to consistently compete at the top levels of the game with that approach.
I think if Pete had a more modern conception of how important the quarterback position is, we wouldn’t be watching Geno on Sundays.
I believe the flaws in the team are basically a reflection of the flaws of the coach. They are intrinsic to Pete himself.
Peter
I agree with a lot of this. Looking at a best of USC list during Pete’s time it is heavy with LB’s and safeties as the premium position.
Both spots are currently trending to far less important.
Brodie
I believe Pete’s biggest flaw is an overestimation of both his approach to the game and how close his team is to being able to consistently compete at the top levels of the game with that approach.
Bingo. And the organization’s biggest issue is that there is no one left to challenge him in that approach.
Palatypus
Nobody listens to Brodie.
Close the beach he said. That shark is gonna eat people he said. But noooooooo, the mayor didn’t listen. That kind of talk is bad for business.
And then that little boy’s Mom slapped him in the face.
You just know it’s gonna be a long swim home on the flotsam of the Orca at the end.
king
🤣
Julian L
This might be quite a heavy view to take, especially on here, but there might be something cultural in the approach of American’s generally towards positivity bias. And in many ways it might not be such a bad thing.
I think European history and geography with many countries competing for resources and different cultural identities in a relatively small geographical space, has set us up temprementally to be much more cynical, suspicious and inquisitvie of things than Americans generally are. Americans who’ve built a big and without doubt the most powerful country on earth in just over 200 years, on a spirit of entrepreneurship, belief in good outcomes and also faith.
The ‘American dream’ sets up a very positive vision of what’s possible.
Also faith is important in America and what’s faith but the belief that there are better alternatives without imperical evidence that the positive vision they believe in actually exists. I see evidence of these traits often in those that talk of haters or people being negative, it’s because these people and I’m not suggesting all Americans are like this or that people who talk in such a way are naive people, but maybe there are people who believe that not to follow something ‘religiously’, meaning not to question the rationale behind the way things are done, is almost a kind of blasphemy, by those that don’t follow the script(ure). And they’ll be those of secular faith, who’ll believe in the ability and goodness of others, because that’s part of their cultural identity and to find weaknesses and faults in other things is a contradiction of what path in life they want to follow. It can’t be explained but it’s part of a cultural identity, for some to be this way.
Anyway perhaps that’s a bit heavy, but I don’t think those that are like this will change there approach, except it would be a bit easier if they could allow others to be more inquisitive?
This may be relevant to the conversation about PC.
Last year he was asked what he is most proud of in his Seahawks tenure.
His answer? Building one of the greatest defenses in NFL history by defying current logic? Winning a Super Bowl? Taking a team to back to back Super Bowls?
No.
He said he’s most proud of consistently having a winning record.
I am not going to overreact to that answer. He may be looking at his current crew and not wanting to signal he prefers an old team or players to them.
But honestly, would anyone begrudge PC for saying any of those three answers I listed?
And furthermore, it would appear to give credence to our long-held belief/fear that PC prefers simply keeping his head above water year to year to building a true Super Bowl contender.
Jabroni-DC
He said he’s most proud of consistently having a winning record.
That’s what I‘be been wondering & concerned about. Pete seems content & comfortable with being above average. “Win Forever” means 9-7(8 now).
icb12
Winning in the NFL is hard. Consistently winning even harder. And when it’s all said and done, maybe that IS what fans will remember, the days when we had a winning team. It’s ok to proud if that.
But- that shouldn’t be the GOAL. The goal should be to win the damn Superbowl every single year and to operate in a manner that helps you reach that goal.
I believe that with that goal the wins will follow. (eventually). Sometimes it’s hard to recognize that to get closer to your goal you need to step backwards or go the long way. Who knows where Pete’s head is. But if his goal isn’t to win the Superbowl each and every single year, than he shouldn’t be coaching in the NFL.
Brodie
I was at my girl’s softball game listening to a Steelers fan talking with another parent about his team. He said “Pickett ain’t it”. What followed sounded like a fan lamenting his team is most of the same ways we do. Good-not-great. Game has passed the coach by. Reminiscing about the good old days… It got me thinking, so I looked it up last night, and ya – Pittsburgh is the Hawks of the AFC.
Revered head coach that won the SB back in the day and will have to really bungle things up to be forced out. Hasn’t innovated or hired a difference making coordinator in memory and now wields an unbalanced level of authority in the org.
Both of us used to be the bully, the defense teams hated to face, the home field advantage of envy. Now, none of those things are true.
Both made it to the Super Bowl and won, then fell short on their next try. Since then it’s been a spin cycle of good seasons where they usually eke into the playoffs, only to be back home on the couch the next week.
Both almost always seem to have a winning record, but also seem to make every victory insanely hard.
2023 specific: Two good RB’s and a talented receiving corps, but it never comes together for the offense and QB looks like the biggest issue. 30th and 32nd in Time of possession.
Both teams with 6-3 records and both teams with more points allowed than scored.
Both teams likely on track for another wild card one-and-done.
I think it’s absolutely horrendous and frankly unbelievable
Denver Hawker
Inglemoron
Denver Hawker
Sorry, couldn’t help myself
TJ
Funny….I wonder how many readers get your reference. It helps to be a local.
Peter
Oh I got it it.
Having gone to two “competing” districts and two different HS’s, inglemoor and Juanita, I can safely say they’re all morons….
Dingbatman
Wow! An Inglemoor reference on my favorite blog. I’m apoplectic!
Denver Hawker
SDB deep cuts
Jabroni-DC
Pete did say in the last year or two that Carson Palmer was his ideal QB. Will Howard is similarly sized. If that was the only criteria that mattered I’d place a bet.
Joe Burrow has been sacked twice and has Raven rushers in his face almost every play.
He’s 11 for 17 for 101 yards and a touchdown so far.
The offensive coordinator clearly planned for this.
Jabroni-DC
And the small fact that he IS Joe Burrow after all. A bit of a quicker processor than most.
king
Yes, that’s the point.
king
My bad. That wasn’t Cha’s point, but I think it is a part of the problem. Cincy has a plan AND a quarterback that can respond to Baltimore’s defense. Seattle had neither.
Palatypus
They are stopping Thursday Night Football because of a drone over the field.
I guess I won’t be asking Jim Nagy if I can take one to Senior Bowl practices.
king
Cincy is a perfect example of why it is okay to be completely dependent on quarterback play. If Burrow can’t go again this year, the Bengals have no hope.
Yet they have been to the Super Bowl and an AFC Championship game because he is elite. Any season he is healthy, the Bengals are a threat to win it all.
Most contenders are reliant on great quarterback play, yet Seattle seeks to reduce the dependence of team success on the play of one position.
I worry if Burrow will have similar injury problems to Andrew Luck. It sucks too because he’s great amd easy to route for, and that fanbase has waited so long for a guy like that to make them relevant. Hope he heals fast and can still have a chance this year. That division is murderers row this year.
samprassultanofswat
Chris: I couldn’t agree with you more. The Bengals MUST provide an offensive line that protects Joe Burrow. That should be their number 1, number 2, number 3 etc. etc. priority.
It frustrates me to no end how the Bengals continue to let Burrows get hit. Don’t they understand. This is insane.
509 Chris
I just saw that they expect Burrow to miss the rest of the season, hopeful he can make it back for playoffs. Sherman was so critical of TNF before hosting it, I think he was right. Another example of the league dismissing player safety to get one more primetime game.
BK26
Here is my irritant for the week: fans in general are finally opening up to the idea of drafting someone. The debate is the fact that a rookie can’t be any better than Geno. Therefore, Geno has to come back. There CANNOT be any drop in wins. There cannot be any backtracking. That is the toxic mindset: the wins are what matters. Not developing, getting better, creating a longer window, fixing the cap.
And who says that a rookie won’t be better? Wouldn’t surprise me if a Spencer Rattler overtook Geno just like Russ won the job.
What a lot of people want is just to throw late-round picks at guys and have them develop. Then MAYBE they can be good enough to have a chance to start. All the while, keep going with Geno. So keep doing what we have been: play a middle-of-the-road quarterback that is getting paid too much in comparison to his production, and hope that we fall into someone by being cheap in terms of assets.
There is an irrational fear of early-round quarterbacks.
Peter
It’s going to be a very long not fun off season.
I’m already wasting time trying to explain that worth as a pejorative and value as in where you can draft a player are different things.
If you looked through the comments on Rob’s latest video there was a person(s) who kept with the “yeah, well, tell me what rookie ever balled out….”
Like poster Chris alluded to above that’s not the question. It’s what rookie contract qbs have done well and that gulf is pretty wide.
The endless trade out of the first for future firsts….folks it doesn’t happen. If Seattle has pick #20 or lower to get into the second round the raw value is an extra third and an extra fifth. Period.
Then the qbs. It’s almost this three headed monster of: first round picks are busts, just get one late because Brady, or my absolute *favorite* Trent dilfer won a super bowl. So you’re saying Geno actually isn’t good? Wait til you find out that our team is about 19 spots away in scoring defense to be an all timer that can ‘carry’ a mid tier qb.
Then a slim slice of the pie chart. The Huskies. Penix is not my top choice but even then I think as of today he’ll be the third qb taken at or before pick #15. So you want him? Great we’ll be the team burning future firsts to move up around 5-10 spots.
BK26
I’ve wasted so much time this week debating to people telling me that the sky is green on this topic.
And Rob’s Youtube videos…get really, really weird comments…. I’ve mentioned that before. Some of those are the fans that will double down on an opinion no matter what.
We can’t keep trading back. You don’t win by having the most picks. The team ingrained that mindset into fans over the years and it backfired on everyone.
And Dilfer…he is who gets mentioned first with the whole “you don’t need an elite quarterback.” He had maybe the best defense ever. Terrific offensive line and running back, good receivers. What is easier to build: the 9er’s building their defense (even just a great defense, let alone a historic one), or the Chiefs going with a chance at an upgrade and going from Alex Smith to Patrick Mahomes?
It is such a long season and offseason for this….
Sean
I really appreciate this video, and I wish more people would open their mind outside this blog and consider the arguments Rob is making. I really do believe if the goal is to win a superbowl, we need to move on.
However, from a business perspective I think there is very little chance Pete Carroll could ever get fired unless he stops making the playoffs regularly. Fans and owners have different goals. Fans want to win a superbowl, which is why getting a new coach would probably be smart. Owners buy teams to make SAFE money. Pete Carroll is the definition of safe money, he gets us either to the playoffs or close every single year meaning fan attendance stays high until week 17, people still keep buying jerseys, and people keep watching on TV.
Obviously every owner would prefer the super bowl, which increases their earnings more… But the risk of changing coaches is too high for most owners to give up a coach that makes them money every single year, always in contention for the playoffs. This is why fortune 500 companies don’t change CEOs very often just because they are not improving their earnings…because they have no idea what a new guy will do. The uncertainty is more scary than acceptable results. This is especially true in the NFL because coaching changes are highly volatile..you can do an amazing search and hire the hottest guy, but he could easily be a failure. Most owners will always take the option of safe money and consistently making the playoffs. As a fan I wish they would take the risk, but the only way I see it is possible is if there is so much fan backlash that the owners are pressured into the change. Which is why I wish people would take these honest critcisms from pepole like Rob more seriously…Lets just hope Carroll retires soon lol.
I said it earlier but ypu have to wonder how much TNF plays into some of these injuries? The leauge jeopardizing player safety for another primetime game.
It’s taken me a few days to think this great thought piece over, enjoy the comments, and think of something that might be worth adding to the discussion. For me, the situation is doubly exacerbated by the poor standard of the NFC currently. On one level I look at the opposition and think I would question the organization’s competitive instinct if they didn’t pursue an all in approach when everyone else is eminently beatable THIS YEAR. On the other hand, the conference weakness means you can be a 10 win team and flame out in the playoffs without giving your fans the satisfaction of even watching any good football. There is little to no joy in piling up wins like we had against the Cards and Commanders, squeaking by teams that it is almost impossible actually to lose to. It would be one thing to “settle” and be proud of consistent winning seasons if that meant coming up short having played good opposition and good football along the way, but taking pride in stumbling to winning seasons and making the NFC playoffs almost by default is just depressing.
WEG
“…but then I also see a lot of people saying ‘you’re just constantly negative,’ and i don’t really understand where’s that comes from, because if there’s one thing we really try to do on the channel, it’s be really balanced.”
“I want you to tell me, in the comments section, what is unfair about any of these opinions?”
Later:
“Tell me why any of those opinions are overly negative, overly pessimistic, unfair, unbalanced….”
If I’m not mistaken, the number of commenters who took RS up on the challenge was zero. I will probably strike out, but thought I’d give it a go.
The short answer is that there’s nothing wrong with the opinions.
But the longer answer is that what I think is “overly negative” about this blog, is not the opinions.
To start with, this blog is great and Rob Staton is pretty amazing. But (always a but) I would say there’s a bit of a Jekyll/Hyde quality here.
All of the draft stuff is of a very high quality, in my view. Extremely fair and balanced. RS always it make “this is what I’m seeing, others are seeing it different, make of that what you will.” RS always lets the data tell the story.
And much of the Seahawk analysis is good also. I think the opinions are all good, and very welcome.
But I’d say a lot of it not saying “what is the story here” are seeing how the data, as it accretes, answer the questions but instead, saying “we know what the story is” and gathering and using data with an eye to pushing that story.
My view is that as the Seahawks play their game each, the larger story isn’t really changing very much. Right now the Seahawks are 16th in overall DVOA, 20th in defensive DVOA, 11th in offensive DVOA. That’s who they are now and I would take that as my best guess that that’s where they’ll end up. It might mean 9 – 8 or 10 – 7 and in the playoffs, it might be 8 -9 or even 7 -10.
If the Seahawks should lose badly against the Rams, I know I’m likely to get some “Pete Carroll’s defense year after year” stuff and some “this shows once again that Geno Smith is not the answer” stuff – a lot of fulminating. Do I learn anything new from that? No.
If they should win big, will I get the countervailing takes? Any “maybe this will be the year the defense finally comes around” or “this is at least some evidence in Geno’s favor?” I’m doubtful.
Last week they put up 490 and we got:
“They can’t do anything for long stretches, then they come to life for a bit.”
Again, I’m in broad agreement with RS’s opinions. But I think instead of pushing these opinions all the time, it would be better just to let things play out and see what happens – just let the accretion of data tell the story.
“We know what Smith is. He is a player who has proven to be thoroughly mediocre. It’s possible the Seahawks are the sole reason he remains an actual NFL player.”
“He turns 32 this year. The ship has long sailed on any lingering potential. He is what he is. A player who, but for the Seahawks, might struggle for a backup job somewhere else. After all, in recent years he has remained on the market for a long time before eventually returning to Seattle.”
“Thus, the Seahawks will go into the season with not just the worst QB situation in the league — but arguably one of the worst in a decade.”
The “facts” referenced in this blog entry turned out to be not facts. Of course this was overly negative – there was no good reason for making these statements. They were never facts, they were opinions or at best informed guesses. RS should have more open to a wider possible range of outcomes in the Geno Experiment and this would still be true *even if Geno had been as bad as expected.*
And having whiffed so badly there, I think RS should be more open to a wider range of outcomes as regards every Seahawks issue. Should we move on from Pete? Should Geno come back next year? Is Waldron a bum?
I’d say keep the opinions, just keep an open mind and just let the data, as it accretes, tell the story. Don’t let the opinions tell the story.
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We have a great community in the comments, we just ask you keep things on topic.
I would love to draft Spencer Rattler.
I would release Quandre Diggs, Jamal Adams, and Geno Smith.
Bring back Smith on a cheaper contract if he wants.
Need to remove as many of the high salaries that are not elite in the league.
Trade DK Metcalf. Need to skinny the talent up front and reduce salary.
As good as Metcalf is the Seahawks don’t use him enough.
Better to take the draft capital the cap space and draft a young replacement receiver.
Love Pete Carroll. Would hope that he just becomes the philosophical leader of the team.
Need to replace both coordinators with two coordinators that have total and complete control of the schemes that the team will use and run and the personnel that they want to have on the field.
Let Pete do the rah rah, build and create the culture, make it a destination that players love to play in.
Mushy middle is death in any sports league.
Need to be in the top six to be considered a realistic contender every year.
If you cant be a realistic contender every year than figure out how to bring in more talent and manage the cap to take advantage of opportunities when they come up.
Love everything you do Rob regarding the draft and the team analysis.
Rob, it sucks you get a lot a lot of criticism for not only speaking how you feel but speaking facts. Unfortunately, you’re speaking to a naive majority of a fanbase that believes in all of bullshit that has been going on for years. These fans have been making excuses for Pete and blaming someone else. Remember to these toxic fans, Seattle media, and ownership, Pete gets an accountability free pass for life because of the SB win from 10 YEARS AGO.
5 or 6 years I voiced my dislike for Pete and wanting him fired on social media and I’ve been called everything from idiot to bandwagon and that I know nothing about football. The only legit arguments Petehawk fans can say as reasons to keep him is that he won a SB and all the winning seasons we have after. But funny how coaches like Mike McCarthy and Sean Payton have had just as many winning seasons as Pete. Are they still with teams they won a SB with? How about Doug Pederson? He was fired only a few years after winning one with Philly.
Unfortunately, only 2 ways Pete is gone is if he decides to hang it up or the new ownership decides to move on (but thats if and when Jody is gonna sell the team). Majority of the fanbase keeps insisting on keeping Pete and believing he’s gonna win us another SB. It’s not gonna happen.
Fans who no longer support Pete, if we want Pete gone then we gotta be louder than the fanbase that wants to keep him.
I’ve been on your side for awhile Rob and I’ll keep supporting you. Never stop voicing your opinion!
You’ve always taken a very rational, pragmatic approach to things, that’s what makes this place great. I don’t think there’s anything unreasonable in what you’ve laid out.
Anyone else surprised the Eagles defense hasn’t been all that good despite all that front line talent? They’re giving up a lot of pass yards (26th) and a decent amount of points (19th). I don’t think defense is really all that important anymore, the league has minimized it too much. What you need are a few playmakers and a solid scheme. Outside the Cowboys and Niners, I feel like what defense does good any particular year is random. Except Seattle of course, we’re pretty consistently mediocre to bad. I’m not sure building up the defense, in this day and age, is really going to get us anywhere. And certainly not blowing 50 mil on two mediocre safeties. I feel like Pete is slowly falling behind the times.
Just gotta get a QB, and keep the ball out of the other teams hands. Niners and Eagles are both top 5 offenses. That really helps the defense. Geno not going 3 and out, or not converting on third down, seven drives in a row for stretches, would really help out the defense. Pair Pete with a franchise QB and we’ll be balling for another decade. But that’s true with any team…most teams…you don’t want to be like the Chargers and wasting your franchise QB season after season.
Rob I skipped through your video but it seemed like it hit your usual points.
My comment about negativity is that we are feeding into a negativity loop. As an example in the last game Geno wasn’t playing well the first half. Of course everyone on this blog commented and for the most part it was negative comments about the offense and the failures of the defense. Not just Geno but everyone.
Come the second half, maybe because of fan fatigue, there were hardly any comments and hardly anything positive said, despite the fact that the defense toughened up and Geno Smith did lead a come from behind rally for the win. A win that puts this team at 6-3. Shouldn’t we all be happy to be 6-3?
This fan base here has been conditioned to think of our team as a failure, even with a 6-3 record.
We are also conditioned to believe that the team has to do something in the off season. Get another quarterback, get rid of expensive safeties and other non perfoming players. But the GM and Coach have mostly been puzzling in their moves for years and years. To the point where we celebrate them having a good draft instead of the usual why did they pick that player in the first round?
Anyway, you spent a lot of time studying QBs last year, and guess what, they did pick a QB and it was Ahlers. This year your studying again, and they may very well punt again. This GM and Coach are real wild cards. The end result is the fan base here being heart broken again!
Anyway, the main point I want to make is that I think we should be happier about the raggedy game time performance than we are. And save the worries for the seasonal drafting, trading and coaching.
Anyway, I think we have to separate the day to day seasonal perfomance from your long term draft goals.
Is there room for different perspectives? Different views? Different choices?
My perspective is that if you drop the ‘shouldn’t we all, we should, we have to’ & simply share your perspective the world will benefit from your allowance of others to choose for themselves.
Well said Jabroni
The Seahawks didn’t come from behind to win. They coughed up a handsome lead, with the defense conceding two easy TD drives. Then they got into FG range to win at the end. So let’s be accurate here. They made hard work of that.
I think Alaska is part right that the banality of it all has conditioned fans in a few ways.
Just me but I’m honestly pretty bored by this forever need to grind out wins against any and all opponents. The giants game was actually fun for me to see the team completely work over another team.
WAS is actually bad. They’ve passed on the season in hopes of the future. The coach is probably a lame duck. Instead of frankly crushing them ( turns out we can’t) we engage in a weird defensive battle for a half then a shootout with them.
I’d take anything at this point. Best air attack. Best secondary. Best running game. Just be near the top in anything besides best punt yardage and weirdly the team’s MVP is actually Jason Myers who is accounting for almost 30% of all points.
For me, the Giants game might be the most frustrating. I have never seen a team so beaten down and borderline waving a white flag. And we couldn’t dominate and just destroy them. Should have been like the Ravens game, but for us destroying them. 2013 and 2014 teams would have eaten them alive.
Devon Witherspoon made that game. All of the sacks were more or less an outlier than a sign of something to come. That game alone was 1/3 of our sacks for the season. Geno turned into a child and has almost been a sign of things to come with his attitude. After Witherspoon’s pick six, Lock coming in was the most exciting thing.
True. But….Geno. that’s why we couldn’t thoroughly throttle them.
WAS was more infuriating for me. As it unfolded I knew I’d get a week of “genos back!!!”. They should have hammered that team.
Now unlike Giants where at the time I thought…hey now is this defense going to tick upwards halfway in the reality is we are mid tier or lower in any meaningful area and that’s playing some truly bad teams.
To be fair to the Commies they did force the Eagles into a last minute win, too. The NFL has a lot of parity right now and even looking at teams who we should probably envy, they’ve had stinkers, like the Bills, Bengals and Dolphins. Totally agree with your last point though, there’s nothing consistent you can point to with this team and say “that’s why we’re a good team” since there’s nothing we do well for multiple weeks at a time. It feels anti-pete the way the offense works when it does work, by west-coasting the way down the field with short passes and few runs.
The team played poorly (again) and barely won against a bad team (again). We can get excited about the record all we want, but we’ve been here before. Year after year after year. It is nothing new. It’s the thought of “hey we are winning more than we are losing, so that is ok with me! More rainbows and sunshine!”
The product is extremely underwhelming and those that are leading the team are the issues (Pete, Geno, both coordinators). The team is too talented not to be improving. Then there are two games this year that were complete and utter embarrassments. There are too many of those too often.
There is no conditioning into thinking that the team is a failure. They are middle of the road. Since they have been that way for years, that doesn’t cut it with me. I want to win another Super Bowl. They aren’t close. I look at it that way: where are they making up ground?
There is also no conditioning into thinking that something has to be done this offseason. That is a fact. The safety issue and the quarterback issue HAS TO BE FIXED. The safeties hold the rest of the roster back, both on the field and with the cap. And we currently do not have a quarterback capable of winning a Super Bowl. Our current qb can’t run arguably the most talented team in football. So because Pete and John make odd moves, we just don’t worry about it?
I’m not happy with mediocrity. The record doesn’t matter when you have games that are embarrassments and you aren’t seriously competing. I’m not going to tune it all out and worry about it in the future. They had a great record last year and look what happened. They lost to the entire NFC South.
Celebrate what they have done so far, you can do what you want as a fan. If you are happy with this situation, good for you. I want to win the whole thing and they aren’t close. I don’t really care to be told how or what to feel. I’m worried about what needs to be fixed and how to do it. I’ll tune it out a bit during the game, but the on-field product is still not good enough to silence the issues for the whole time.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 you are 100% spot on. It’s the way we been winning games that has been a huge problems because that won’t work against powerhouse teams. The ravens game proved that and chances are its gonna prove that again with the 4 games after the rams. But we can’t sleep on the rams either considering they have our number and Stafford is back.
Well said
We were 6-3 at this point last year during an easy first half schedule, ended 9-8 and got blown out in the playoffs. How is this team any different? When was the last time we won a playoff game? Let alone thought we were a Super Bowl caliber team? I’m sorry but a lot of us have been feeling like we’ve been spinning our wheels for a decade while watching the FO make questionable win now moves, that don’t help win now while perpetually sacrificing the future.
And now we saw it again with the Leonard Williams trade, which is very frustrating after finally having two good drafts. I mean if the FO really believes we are a Leonard Williams trade away from a Super Bowl, that is a big problem, and feels like the same old shit. A team that believes themselves great, while being consistently mediocre. As Rob states, I want to aim for greatness and be the top dog winning Super Bowls, not be the Kirk Cousins of NFL teams. To get there you have to take a step back and honestly take a look in the mirror to see what this team needs to be great, and make the effort to go out get that. And it’s obvious what that is is a franchise QB, it’s just the way the NFL is and has always been, it’s not some big secret. We haven’t cracked some magical code. But if the FO can’t see it, and can’t do it, then it’s just another wasted year of spinning our wheels.
Yes!!!! You are spot on. Which is why I do have to disagree with Rob when he said Pete can win us another SB. I don’t believe that at all. His time has past. We are running the same stale philosophies on both offense and defense. They’re why we’ve been a mediocre playoff team for years. And it honestly doesn’t matter who our coordinators are because we’ve seen the same predictable stuff no matter who the coordinator was. What we’ve seen from Waldron so far is no different from Bevell and Scottenheimer. Same goes for Hurt Norton and Richard. Pete’s not the type of coach to give a coordinator the keys to run everything, he’s gotta be in control of everything and that’s a problem. And I think he has more control over the drafts and trades than Schneider.
Yeah, we could win with Pete, just like we could win with Geno. It is a literal possibility, but I personally don’t think it will happen. The team is still where it has been overall. And honestly, I don’t trust Pete to develop a young quarterback. No one has developed under Pete. Just can’t see Pete making the hard team decisions needed and giving up control enough and just delegating.
Also, he is starting to make excuses for Geno and it sounds too much like Russ for my liking…. That’s on Pete.
Also on Pete is the lack of a meaningful running game. Which would certainly help the passing game. Look how well the Seahawks did on their last drive when they actually ran the ball.
I’m going to get back to my point though. We need to separate the desire for a superbowl win from the week to week struggle to play games. Can we not find some joy in the team as it exists during this season? I think we can. If we criticize every bad play/drop/fumble for a team then can we also celebrate the good stuff? The two catches that DK made during the last series, and guess who threw them, our QB Geno Smith.
This is a flawed team on a journey. And what I saw in the comments last Sunday was a complete breakdown of the fans by halftime. Hardly any comments in the second half. We were numb by then.
Lets just enjoy their raggedy performance which will probably get them to the playoffs, again. And hope they can do better on the off season and find a decent QB after the season is over.
I want to enjoy being 6-3 but we saw what happened last year when we were that. All of our wins except maybe the Detroit game have been mediocre wins. We’re not gonna be able to win like that the rest of year especially against 49ers Eagles and Cowboys. The Ravens game proved we have a lot more flows than strengths. If we keep playing this way then we’ll never beat the real contenders let alone be real contenders. I wanna go back to the 2012-2013 seasons where we were killing teams and every team feared us.
I just can’t enjoy a movie that I watch over and over and over again since 2016. There is nothing to enjoy other than “yay we won a game.” That’s it, then reality is right there, back.
There is a fine line that we are stuck on: good enough. Not enough to for any big changes to come, not good enough to be getting better and building.
Their performance this season and for years isn’t something that a lot of us are going to find small moral victories. What was to celebrate in the second half? We decided to show up and squeak by? That is almost every week. We should be almost demanding better.
Well the bright side is, Detroit will probably get the 2nd seed, and we will probably get the 7th seed, which means we’ll actually have a good shot at winning a playoff game this year.
Get a franchise QB and you don’t need a coach. Being hyperbolic of course, but I do think Pete can win another Super Bowl — if we can get a franchise QB. You can say that about most teams though. Look at the Texans, won 3 games last year, 4 games each two prior years. Now they’re probably going to the playoffs.
Most disconcerting to me is Pete’s a defensive minded coach and it’s been middling to bad defenses for the past 6 years. That’s kind of a big issue. Imagine an Andy Reid team being bottom of the league on offense for six years.
Getting a franchise QB isn’t easy and it isn’t automatic. We got one with RW because we were smart or because we we lucky. (It’s smarter to be lucky than it’s lucky to be smart).
Well we haven’t been smart or lucky since. I mean, the plan post Wilson was apparently to just roll with Geno Smith/Drew Lock. How is this still the plan 2 years in? We all know it’s not easy to get a franchise QB, but until you have one every effort should be made to get one. Hell, we tried while HAVING one in Wilson (Mahomes, Allen, Herts, if the rumors are true). The front office has to know this, and they need to do something about it is all I’m saying. They dropped the ball in last years draft and they can’t keep doing so.
Right. It’s time to activate Plan B, if they have one. If they do nothing in the 2024 draft, then either they are happy with Smith/Lock, or all the QB prospects they like are off the board by the time they draft.
Alaska, I feel you. I have had to catch myself on numerous occasions just being negative instead of trying to enjoy the team and the journey. My son actually looked at me at one point and asked who I was rooting for. I was a bit ashamed at that. I want a reset of this stale franchise (new QB and head coach) so bad that sometimes I catch my self hoping for failure just to see those long term goals accomplished. It doesn’t make for such a good viewing experience, honestly. What’s funny, is when I go to a game (like this Sunday at SoFi) I find myself rooting harder and having a better time without the broadcasters, Geno close-ups, and gum chewing head coach being thrust in my face. Everyone is just a Seahawk down on the field. It becomes just about the football on the field in that moment. Again, I’m not happy with where we are as a team, but game day could be more enjoyable.
Look at the past schedule vs upcoming. We’re 6-3 on our way to 8-9. Not celebrating 6-3 is just being realistic about how the team is actually performing and our current chances of contention.
Maybe part of the divide is many fans are perfectly happy to root for their team and be a 1 and done playoff team year after year, while folks here freely admit the reality that this team is at the level of a 1 and done playoff team (do people really argue about how good the team is? I think we all know for the most part), but are truly concerned about the details required to actually be a super bowl winner. If you want your team to be a superbowl winner, then all the forseeable mistakes and miscalculations this team makes on a regular basis, which we know WILL screw up the ability to win a superbowl, become unacceptable. If you don’t TRULY care about winning a superbowl, then it just sounds like bitching.
Or maybe these 100%raw-raw-fans actually do really want the Seahawks to win a superbowl, but actually have no conception of what has to happen for that to occur. Part of me thinks they actually believe in the delusion that if everyone is super positive all the time it will actually help the team win games.
I did listen to the video Rob & have the same goal of reaching the top of the mountain again. It’s fair to ask questions. It’s fair to share observations of what you see & offer critique, options & opinions toward reaching that goal. It’s fun to identify players that we want to add to this team in pursuit of that goal & watch them grow together towards a championship.
I would say that the disconnect is how to judge Geno Smith. If you just judge him by the amount of wins then he is a good quarterback. If you judge him as a reclamation bust Quarterback when he was in New York. then is playingfine.
If you are rating Geno as a potential Superbowl contending Quarterback, then he is playing poorly this year. If the Seahawks want to be an actual contender, they are not, then Geno would need need to play much better.
Geno Smith is currently an average level NFL Starting Quarterback. He is much better then many like DeVito, Zach Allen, Pickett, etc. but not nearly in the class of the elite like Mahomes or Burrow. Many on this blog who want to see the Seahawks get to another Superbowl, do not see a pathway to that with Geno and are critical of his play.
The Seahawks have had one of the easiest schedules so far this season. They have one of the hardest schedules left for their last 8 games. If Geno is playing inconsistently against the easiest schedule , then what is he going to look like against these teams coming up?
The Seahawks point diffential after 9 games sits at -1. This is sure to be a lot worse by the end of the year. This indicates that the team is not nearly as good as the 6-3 record indicates. The Seahawks may very well sneak into a WC Game, but do not seem a threat to win a playoff game.
Don’t be fooled by this 6-3 record against a lot of cupcakes. Wait until they play the 49ers, Cowboys and Eagles then judge this team. From what we have seen them this year, many expect those games to go poorly.
Even if we all agreed he was a “good” quarterback, there would still be a disconnect.
It could be argued that signing “good” quarterbacks to contracts of the size that “good” quarterbacks normally receive is a route to trapping your team into mediocrity.
The argument that folks typically use for getting rid of Geno is not that he isn’t an NFL average quarterback, it’s that the value of an NFL average quarter in terms of salary cap implications will hamstring the team in the long-run. The reason for starting a worse quarterback at a far lower salary is that you believe the most likely path to winning a superbowl involves acquiring a top-tier quarterback … and if there isn’t one currently on the roster, then everything else needs to be constructed to prepare for one (hopefully through the draft, for best return relative to resources used). I think the raw-raw folks simply aren’t able to wrap their minds around concepts like this, even to refute the argument (which requires understanding it in the first place).
Rob I think you’re being quite fair.
Geno Smith has now played the equivalent of a full season (17 games) after the 2022 bye week. If you aggregate his stats over that period, this is what you find:
Completions: 390
Attempts: 591
Completion %: 66.0
Yards Passing: 4,232
TDs: 26
INTs: 15
Average Yds per Attempt: 7.16
Average QB Rating: 90.5
These are the hallmarks of an average QB.
Using pro football reference, a 66% completion rate ranks 16th this season, and a 7.16 average yards per attempt ranks 15th. A QB Rating of 90.5 ranks 17th.
Asking to get more value out of what you have at your disposal is not hating on the team. Asking to roll the dice on a potential QB of the future in 2024 is not hating on Geno Smith. It is just recognizing that what we have is probably just good enough to secure a wildcard berth, and then to watch us get trounced by a team with real championship potential.
People keep talking about building around Geno. At this point I’m not sure what else they could do.
You just keep adding talent & work to find that QB in a Haystack while you’re at it.
I meant more the investments in RB’s, WR’s, TE’s, oline at this point for building around Geno. If all this isn’t working and it needs an overhaul we’re in a bigger trouble than we know.
Look, if we can just pile more and more bricks on the crumbling foundation, we might just end up with a big ol pile of bricks. Wait…
I still think a good deal of this toxic positivity is media-driven.
I probably consume as much Seahawks-related media as anyone and some days I just have to shut it off because it is so relentlessly positive.
It’s like I’m being gaslighted from Monday-Saturday. Being told one thing, and Sunday rolls around and I don’t see anything close to what was written-tweeted-blogged about.
-Week after week Pete Carroll has made excuses for Geno Smith, just like he did in the RW era, but for the defense (my favorite was the Buffalo game..’we didn’t plan for them to pass so much and that’s why they absolutely shredded us’ but also ‘we had a shot if Russ doesn’t turn the ball over so much’). I have not heard a single question about ‘why isn’t this offense in synch?’ ‘If Geno is throwing balls to nowhere, expecting receivers to break and they don’t, what in blazes is going on? How was Geno working with the WRs alone, in OTAs, in camp and every week in practice not enough?’ And ‘if this offensive line is so poor, and that’s a big part of the problem, why do you keep calling plays that require Geno to hold the ball and wait for routes to develop?’ and ‘Where is the point where you put the excuses aside and decide that Geno just simply has to be better?’
-The Seattle Times wrote a story on how Leonard Williams is benefitting the whole DL. They quoted comments from PC and Dre Jones about how Dre ‘can now play his natural position’ because LW is on the interior. Not one mention was made of exactly why the Seahawks thought spending $18m a year on a free agent and then playing him at his unnatural position was ridiculously silly. Let alone that Dre was left to cover a RB in the pass game and failed spectacularly on that 48-yard dumpoff. Nor any discussion of ‘the Seahawks paid a huge price for LW, they need every game from here on out to be like this to get even close to breaking even.’
-2-3x a week a beat reporter from one of the more reputable sports publications out there tweets All-12 or other footage of a single brilliant Geno Smith throw. Usually on the heels of a very poor game by Geno which should have cost them more than it did. The comments immediately jump on board the Geno train and anyone who doesn’t think he is brilliant obviously did not watch that one single throw.
-All beat reporters seem very quick to retweet those obscure PFF style stats that highlight good things by players. “X did not allow any pressures or sacks in 55 snaps Sunday” or “Geno Smith’s numbers in play action are sparkling” or “CB only allowed a 44 QB rating Sunday.” In isolation, they’re fine and stoke the positivity. But the game in its entirety showed 1-Geno getting pressured a lot, 2-Geno being absolutely below-pedestrian in the other non-play action calls, 3-the fact that a safety or a LB got absolutely shredded in coverage and all three of those things nearly cost them the game.
-Recently a beat reporter dusted off an alltime classic. In response to legitimate concerns about Geno Smith he tweeted, ‘boy just think of what these fans would say if this were the 1992 seahawks’ which led to a whole sidetracking of the issue with greybearded fans joking about Stan Gelbaugh and calling out anyone who wasn’t a fan of Jack Patera and Effren Herrera as late-coming poseurs.
I understand that reporters have to be balanced. They can’t rail at PC every press conference, asking harsh questions all the time.
But part of the reason SDB gets so much traction (and hate) is we’re talking about these issues without that lens of blinding positivity to every aspect. I just wish we had someone closer to what Joe Fann was. Covering the beat, not letting Pete shrug off real questions, or stopping because Pete teased them about bulldogging him.
Those end-of-year press conferences where Pete rubs gravel through his hair and finally straight-talks with the press are brutal. It’s the one time the mask slips and we get to see what he actually thinks about the team. If we had even occasionally more balanced press coverage, we would get so, so much more as fans.
That is an epic comment Curtis
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
And I agree on the use of gaslighting as an accurate description here
I get all that, but I still think that this blog fan base is caught in a negative feedback loop. I even do it myself. I comment on the bad plays and the screwups all the time.
But if we as fans on this blog are conditioned into this negative loop, what makes you think that we will ever pull out of it? You can get the QB of your dreams and have something wrong with the rest of the team like poor defense. It’s obviously an issue with drafting, veterans chosen and pay amounts, and coaching. And we as fans will say the same negative stuff because we are now conditioned to react to anything short of Superbowl performance level. That’s a fine goal but it’s not realistic to judge everything during the season by that criteria. We already know they won’t make it this year (see I’m being negative) so why beat a dead horse?
I just don’t see an end to the loop. But apparently some guys are reacting to what they think is too much positivity out there on other sites. Maybe it’s just the fan base being happy for once. Or maybe as Rob mentioned that he could get more clicks if he reacted more positively – maybe the other sites have made a business decision for clicks.
You can’t just create a thought about ‘this blog’ and establish that as truth. There’s a wide variety of opinions on this blog. We also spend considerable time talking about draft prospects, stuff we find amusing, hating the Niners, lots of things.
To narrow an entire community down to being in a ‘negative loop’ because negatives are discussed too and then posit that it may never end, to me is neither accurate nor a helpful thing to talk about.
I hear what your saying Rob. My comment is based strictly on fan comments made during the last game on this blog. Not on comments made based on articles.
I’ve often experienced comments during the game are more passionate and knee-jerk than after we’ve had time to absorb the full impact and reason out what it means for the team.
I think that’s a different thing Alaska
I’m guilty of doing that too — of being critical, even sharply critical, in my blog comments during the game when the team pulls a boner. But that’s emotion, Game Day emotion.
As opposed to sort of a worldview of the state of the team one develops over time. Which every fan does to his or her own proclivities.
What’s really discouraging to me is the inability (unwillingness?) of some fans — of both stripes relentlessly positive and the negative nellies — to engage in open, thoughtful discussion about our collective rainbow of Seahawks worldviews.
Except for this blog. Long live SDB.
Footnote: I have noticed a shift in majority opinion of the fans I see commenting on twitter. Used to be overwhelmingly positive. And now I’d say it’s slightly majority negative (realistic?) and slightly minority rose glasses.
Also noticing an increasing number of fans who, like me, acknowledge the reality of our QB situation (we need a new one), while remaining supportive and encouraging of Smith while he remains our leader.
My two cents is that I think you can hold more than one thought in your head at the same time – and it’s totally fine to both think Geno isn’t the answer and the Hawks aren’t a SB contender, while also enjoying every good aspect of the team, and every single win.
Where I agree w you is in the life-is-short, enjoy the good stuff while you can category, and if you’re a Hawks fan for 30 years, and are only happy for 2 of them, that feels like a bad equation to me. There’s a lot of very legit stressers in the world, and while a bad Hawks loss like the Ravens last week can bum me out for days, I try to keep the rest of it in perspective. And I agree, to each his own, which is why the only sentiment I don’t like from some commenters on here (and maybe it’s a reaction to other places on the internet), is that if you aren’t equally as critical, then you are a rainbows and unicorns purveyor, and somehow a less serious fan. Because I don’t think that’s right either.
I will say this – the blog, and the commenters, make this an interesting place that keeps me coming back, in large part b/c of a willingess to poke at things. I mean, who wants to watch a movie where everyone agrees about everytyhing and nothing bad ever happens?
Thanks. I try not to use buzzwords but gaslighting is the most apt description I can think of. (and for the record, I’ve actually seen the fantastic movie that the word was derived from)
My other this week was “Seahawks held Commanders to 68 yards rushing! Run defense back!”
First off, they only ran 14 times. So 4.85y/rush is hardly a dominating ground defense.
And secondly, they used the RBs as receivers. Quite effectively. 11 catches-161 yards – 2 Touchdowns. That’s the difference in the game right there.
And what’s more, they were so poorly defended that their coverage responsible defenders weren’t even on the screen when they caught the ball.
But sure, run defense back, baby.
I watched the start of the game until Washington’s 50+ yard TD play. The defense looked so bad I had to quit for awhile.
Then I read that DreMont Jones is replacing Nwosu. Does that mean they playing a 4-3 while pretending to play a 3-4.
Gaslighting indeed.
Aaaaaaaaand cha gets down to brass tacks. I don’t know how you listen to the endless unicorns and rainbows man. You’re stronger than I.
Here’s today’s example, retweeted by Condotta.
https://twitter.com/mattyfbrown/status/1725296666301911086
Absolute hokum.
FFS
Now we are clinging to stats that have Geno below Derek Carr (who must also be great after all), ranks ‘one game’ Kyler Murray at the top and has Kenny Pickett in the top-10.
Kenny. Pickett.
A perfect example of what you’re talking about Curtis.
And clearly Lamar Jackson is the worst QB in the NFL.
Can’t figure out why they don’t bench him and bring Tyler Huntley in immediately.
It’s supported by this data here. Huntley has zero interceptions, zero sacks and zero fumbles in 2023 (in 25 snaps but that’s not important).
He’s perfect. What is Harbaugh doing out there?
If only Harbaugh followed Matty
This is exactly the problem. You can find stats to prove anything. These guys aren’t reporters or writers. They are car salesmen. And most of them work are selling for the Seattle Seahawks.
How has he played when watching the game? That is basically it.
This is where we’re at.
Being positive about the team = lots of likes. It means getting RT’s from Quandre Diggs and Bob Condotta.
So why wouldn’t you find the stat that paints Geno in a positive light? Who cares if it basically means nothing because the rest of the list includes Carr & Pickett with a QB who has played one game at the top?
This is just another form of Top Billin saying everything is awesome. And people buy it.
A lot of this Cha.
Continuing on I’ve listened to just in this week two different pics talking about how no one could survive that Ravens 50% pressure rate…does anyone know what that even is, seriously?
And also heard that Geno somehow has the 6th longest time in the pocket to throw.
Which is it?
Listened to a pretty big voice explian that Seattle ‘actually’ has the 12th offense in the league when viewed from advanced metrics. I know how we arrive at that number. But this is obscuring what is going on to a degree.
Calling Rob overly negative is kind of like a joke to me when I read it or hear it.
He is not a groupthink person, and the other non-groupthink Seahawks media outlets or positers get hit with the same brush. Haters one week, homers the next, it all depends on the narrative.
All I ask of anyone is their honest opinion. Said this on another site, but I was not worried that mixing it up with Rob over our DLine assessments (or any other issue) being different would lead to a ban, if it did I’d laugh about it and move on.
I actually don’t know how Rob handles some of the commenters he faces with such earnestness.
The toxic positivity in some quarters of this fan base is real though, and it seems to be growing, I’ve found one wellspring of it, I’m sure there are others.
Nothing said in that video is controversial, overly negative, or even controversial…except if you are of the belief that only the most immediate games should be discussed, no forward looking allowed, and that walking into the VMAC imbues you with magic ‘can’t be wrong’ powder.
The sad thing is that Seahawks fans are made of much sterner stuff, certainly were in the Holmgren era and before. Success hasn’t spoiled this fan base, it’s perhaps made it soft.
A lot of ground was covered in the 22+ minutes. All of it reasonable, much of it insightful and well-spoken. I do think that PC would get more out of his current players and any bluechip additions, especially from the upcoming draft if his coaches were better. It’s the coaches’ role that brings the best out of developing players at the skill level, IMO. Pete’s great at the inspirational and philosophical areas. Hurtt and Waldron seem short on accomplishing those tasks.
As far as the negativity towards Rob much of it is the toxic nature of social media and even into some more traditional forms of media. It’s almost like starving a pack of rabid dogs then loosing them toward individuals in someone’s crosshairs.
This might be good for an article. Apparently this draft was from NBC writers. https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-nfl-mock-draft-2-175150585.html
Wow that would irritate me if that happened.
Saw one last night where the kid has us take……a tackle….
This the season I guess.
I’m closer to tackle that can play inside than I am for the 100th draft pick spent in a safety.
Gotta spotlight my guy Tali Fuaga, OT Oregon State! If he goes 11 I’ll be doing flips. Most of y’all will get a good look Saturday
I agree with you on most what you said Rob. My one slight disagreement is that I believe they evaluated Smith as the better prospect for the playoffs today. I think Lock would have been better than Smith is now by the end of the season, but that likely would have meant losing one or two more games to get him there. It’s not like Lock is Gardner Minshew or Jacoby Brissett. He really needs some more reps for us to see what we have.
I do wonder if the fan demand for positivity is related to what Carroll has done with the team. He’s kind of a positive psychology guy and it has worked on occasion. Golden Tate looked like bust until he wasn’t. I think Carroll figures he can coach players into consistent high performance provided they’ve shown something and aren’t jerks. I remember Tony Pauline once complimented the Seahawks on their ability to develop players.
Those are my thoughts. I generally agree with you and support you speaking your mind. There’s no need to always say something positive.
Thanks for your hard work.
Good video. Agree with most everything stated.
The only thing I would throw out is the league seems way more watered down and gettable than in recent years.
A lot of old good qbs have been retired/injured replaced by middling guys. + Russ and Allen are regressing. ANd Mahomes is no longer cheap.
Something is going on with offenses where they are all seemingly worse than before especially in the redzone.
So I do not think the Seahawks are playing at a normal championship level. But think whoever wins the super bowl this year might be an outlier and relatively weak champ.
I think there are a lot wider amount of teams that could win this year because no team is very good. So I don’t think this year is hopeless, even though I do agree with your plans to get a qb/trenches, ditch safeties for a brighter future.
The 2023 Seahawks most likely outcome is to get slaughtered in the Wild Card round. The Defense is below average and the offense is inconsistent. That is with one of the easier schedules to this point.
What does it say about the Seahawks Organization that they are not a contender in this watered down NFL?
I’ve seen a lot of comments in this wheelhouse, the any given sunday variety, lately so I checked some historical notes.
I remember Tampa getting hot and winning. Perhaps the eagles to a degree.
The other teams that won since and including us were division winners with pretty solid margins of victory.
But I don’t care about them. I care about us. So I had to look at 2013 again. When we didn’t move the goalposts all season long. I had forgot that we lost three games by a combined score of 15 points. 15.
I also have been hearing a revision of sorts but was surprised by remembering that we used to crush teams. To retell it is sort if to believe that all the games were fieldgoal nailbiters. But there were in fact enough beatdowns and convincing wins to say that wasn’t the case. We just handled our business and didn’t hope to get hot. We were hot and stayed hot until the confetti came down from the rafters.
I know people will say the margins are razor thin and do this dance where if we lose or win to team ‘×’ but team ‘y’ it goes another way then that means the fickle winds are always blowing.
But they are not. It is far less likely that the just good enough team takes the prize. Luck, injury, all play apart. But the vast majority of winners this century were actually among the best teams going into the game. Maybe not the best defense or best offense but certainly not teams that are around mid to lower in the pack on both sides of the ball.
I hope that I am absolutely wrong about this team being average and that they look like a legitimate contender in 5 weeks. Would love to write in the comments on this blog what an idiot I was to not see greatness this year.
As has been stated here, we have seen this same movie over and over again since 2014 and it has the same unfortunate ending
Myself and Geoffu were commenting how great it would be if Geno somehow just passed the halfway point get all those incentives? During this upcoming stretch? The team would feel unstoppable.
That’s where I’m a little off with Alaska but don’t disagree with him generally.
Everyone told anyone that would listen that this teams offense was going to be electric. Nine games in its flat as a pancake and now there’s chatter that somehow there’s too many weapons. Unbelievable. Imagine in his prime Sean Payton ( maybe he’s still in it?) With brees talking about too many choice..
The defense us raw and the really good players are young. Let’s bombs away on dropping points on other teams and let the defense cover its flaws by putting into pressure situations..
Just anything.
Disagree this offense is flat as a pancake
It’s like the Alps. Lots of peaks with low, low valleys in between.
One of my buddies is a guy who does not like your commentary he does not like your analysis and he believes you are too negative. It makes me laugh because I want to Pete Carroll fired since 2016. You always have problems with fans like my buddy. He considers himself glass half full and constantly refers to life that way. He enjoys his safe spaces. He is constantly telling me that I’m so negative and I look at the Dark Side of Life etc etc I try to get through this by asking him questions in regards to football like what is your objective with the Seahawks as a fan? What do you want to see? If you ask me that question I want Super Bowl wins I want Super Bowl quality teams. He doesn’t even think that way he is perfectly happy with 9 to 10 wins and getting into the playoffs and this is why I think you will always have problems with these types of fans they’re just happy getting by. If this were not true in Seattle why did they bring back Ken Griffey Jr when he was a washed up player and think that this was the hope diamond? Why do fans here constantly look at a good defensive game against a piss poor opponent and then think this is 2013 all over again? Everything is nostalgic with this fan base. They still talk about Edgar Martinez for god sakes. They still talk about Matt hassle back they still talk about Steve Largent. You’re an analyst you have to analyze as it is but most of these fans they don’t want the ex’s and o’s they just look at the record and say six and three we should be really happy so shut up all you negative naysayers. I guarantee you you won’t win this one with these fans. My buddy we just don’t see eye to eye in regards to the Seahawks because I want different things than he does I want Super Bowls and he’s just happy with being competitive and I think that’s why you won’t get Pete doing what you outline inner video because I think that he just likes to compete he just likes the process I don’t think he’s attached to the end result. He won the Super Bowl because what he brought from college was unique but I don’t think he’s getting back there
By the way I should point out he doesn’t like you he doesn’t like your analysis but he reads your articles as soon as they come out. I suspect that that is the case with a lot of your critics. My buddy even subscribed to Seaside Joe because he knows Kenneth Arthur doesn’t like you. And then of course he has to complain that all Kenneth does is beg for money and right about how privileged his readership is to get his great wisdom. That always brings me a smile
He sounds very committed to the bit
Posted a comment this morning. Seems to have disappeared. I’m wondering if this sometimes happens and what causes it.
Did you post it in the other article maybe
I’ve checked and yes, your other comment was posted into Tuesday’s article not this one
My bad. Thanks for checking, Rob.
Jim Nagy being Cagy.
https://x.com/JimNagy_SB/status/1724941075087802598?s=20
Does this mean Jayden Daniels accepted the Senior Bowl invite? Or just that he sent him a hat?
i’ll take this as good news….
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/seahawks-designate-abraham-lucas-for-return
Great video Rob, and I agree with everything you said; but I’m sad that you felt you needed to justify your opinions. I doubt any other blogger, vlogger or PNW media specialist spends as much time really studying the NFL, the Hawks, and college players as you have done for YEARS. So don’t let the bastards get you down.
The Seahawks remind me of a restaurant I used to work at and loved to eat at. Great food, right on the ocean, a staff that really cared to provide the best service. I had always talked up this restaurant to friends and family, and when I had the chance to go back home (after a decade away), I took my mom to eat there.
The place looked the same, still had their trademark dessert, but the place was not the same. Food wasn’t as good, the wait staff was not as attentive as they used to be, and I never saw a manager. The view was still nice, but my remembrance of the restaurant didn’t jibe with the present.
The Seahawks are the same way. We remember the glory days in 2013 when we were at the top and it felt like this team could be a dynasty; could win the next five Super Bowls. In 2014 we had our hearts broken, but damn that team was still good. Then we slowly began to decline, just like my favorite restaurant. The faces changed as the years went by. We lost a lot of that magic, but for a lot of fans, all they could remember was how good it felt in 2013; the expression on Manning’s face when that shotgun snap went thattaway.
I want to remember how good that felt, but more importantly, I want to feel it again. And living in the past won’t get us there. We will have a very hard time recreating the LOB, building that DL that raced to the QB. A singular running back that made people forget Curt Warner, Shawn Alexander, and Ricky Watters. A corny, fearless QB fresh in the league who thought “why not us?” That’ll never happen, and it’s a waste of time to seek to reclaim that.
What we need to do is realize how much the league has changed since 2013. How important offense is vice defense. How different positions have changed in value. Safeties used to be invaluable, now they’re a commodity. Running backs are now a commodity. The best value is in the trenches, in WR/TE, and most importantly the QB.
When I look at the current roster, I see two consistently good players. Tyler Lockett and Jason Myers (albeit overpaid). Everyone else is too inconsistent. Can you build around Reed? Maybe. Can you build around ‘Spoon? Hopefully. Boye is a good player but I don’t see greatness.
Everyone else is too old, overpaid, or replacement level. I hope the last two draft classes pan out better, but I think while the draft choices were good, the players still need to deliver. And PC/JS need to stop with signing retreads of their own players. I love Bwagz, but he’s a shell of the player he used to be and shouldn’t be part of our future plans. Same with Dissly. Glad he overcame diversity with his injuries, but too much $$ for a player of his caliber.
I hope I’m being too pessimistic, and if this ragtag crew can get to the SB, I’ll be cheering as loud as anyone. But I’ve been watching this team since 1976 and have learned that just because you want something, doesn’t mean you’re going to get it.
Anyway, keep up the fantastic work and illegitimi non carborundum…
I think you made some great points there (and thank you, too)
This is a solid analogy as a near two decade vet of Seattle’s restaurant world.
In regards to perceived negativity, I think you really touched the surface of it in the video. Positivity, especially in dreary seattle, sells. As the journalism industry adjusts to this attention oriented world, struggling publications (let’s use the Tacoma News Tribune and Gregg bell) focus on what attracts attention in the given market. It is very clear what sells well in this market. Many seahawks fans want the team to be a sunny place they can escape to, not another reason to feel annoyed.
The end result is what we’ve seen too often in most of the media: distortion of facts and sensationalism to generate attention. That’s what makes sites like this special. The purpose of SDB isn’t to generate attention, but to approach the team from a team building/GM perspective. The brutal honesty with which a GM has to operate is the antithesis of the other approach. A GM doesn’t get a bonus because the team garnered likes on social media. They get paid for their analysis and decision making.
Regardless of what anyone says, Robs analysis stands on its own two feet. That’s why I come back over and over. Other outlets sell escapism, (or themselves like Seaside Joe), but here it’s cold hard reality on sale. We all get to choose if we want to live in fantasyland, where Geno Smith is a franchise QB and Jamal Adams is a DPOY candidate, or in reality. Reality, is confronting, harsh, and often depressing, but that makes it no less real.
Accidentally posted this in response to the wrong article. I’m new here so forgive me while I learn the ropes. Parenthetically, I appreciate a community where one has freedom to express frustration with the team. Or, rather, to be real about whatever one is experiencing. I wouldn’t bother to take the time to write my thoughts if there wasn’t freedom to be honest and I wouldn’t be interested in reading the thoughts of any commentator who wasn’t authentic. I’m not interested in being or finding a cheerleader. I appreciate honest analysis. (Below is what I wrote earlier today and posted to yesterday’s thread.)
Until now, I thought it was too soon for Seattle to pick a QB in the draft. Build the rest of the team first, I thought. But now we’re going into year three of the rebuild and it feels like the time is right.
I was feeling pretty confident about the Hawks’ brain trust given how solid the last two draft classes were but now, after the Williams trade, I’m back to where I used to live. No trust whatsoever in our front office. I’m sorry to say I wouldn’t be shocked if they didn’t pick a QB and picked up Geno’s contract. It’s disheartening to feel that way about one’s team but I can’t think of any excuse for the idiotic Williams trade. A 2nd and a 5th for a ten game rental? Seriously?
I know people will say it’s alright if we re-sign him. I don’t see it that way. He was going to be a free agent. Could have signed him in the off season for free. Second, signing him means letting someone else go. The guy’s alright but it’s not like we got Aaron Donald. I’m not at all confident that he’s worth signing.
The other day, Rob said in his podcast that, having traded for him, we need to sign him. I disagree. That’s what economists call a sunk cost fallacy. We already gave up way too much draft capital. Signing him does nothing to change that. Either he’s worth signing now as if he were a free agent or he’s not. Which depends of course on how much we would have to pay him and how good his performance, going forward, is likely to be.
Unfortunately, I’m in a really bad space as a Seattle fan. I’ve been a fan for a long time. I remember the team under Chuck Knox. There were some terrible teams back in the day. However, I don’t remember ever feeling more hopeless because at least those teams knew they sucked and the front office was trying to do better. It feels now like maybe the Hawks are high on their own supply, thinking the team is just fine, even good — when anyone with eyes can see that the team, overall, is mediocre, with a few players who are good (i.e. Dickson) and a few who show real strong promise (Witherspoon, Mafe, Walker, etc.). Or maybe we’re stuck in a rut because Jody Allen plans to sell the team soon and doesn’t want to rock the apple cart before then. Whatever the cause, this is my least favorite time to be a Hawk.
What has two thumbs and understands Sunk Costs?
Parallax.
(apologies if you don’t actually have two thumbs)
Nice to see when someone gets it. Being able to identify something like the sunk cost fallacy is absolutely required when thinking about how GMs do their job, especially since this seems to be a super easy fallacy for people to fall victim to, even one’s that are normally very solid in their analytics. I seriously think Schneider/Pete are unable to identify it in certain circumstances, which is a big problem as it will inevitably be a major issue every time they trade for a player that is soon to be a free agent (ie. “rental” players). The “need” to resign Adams after trading for him, and what might be perceived as a “need” to resign Williams after trading for him are classic examples. The trades for these players should have 0 bearing on the later decision on whether or not to resign them (and for how much to pay them), but I have no confidence Schneider/Pete will see it that way. It doesn’t mean don’t resign them either … and the fact they made a trade for those players in the first place may suggest they value those players more than the rest of the “market”, but I’ve seen far too much conflating of what should be independent decisions to have much trust that sunk cost fallacies aren’t being made on a regular basis regarding trades/free agents.
I should also point out, that if someone thinks the later decision to resign a player is connected to the initial trade to get them, they are more likely to overpay in draft capital to acquire the player in the first place … an action that seems to be a classic Schneider move. Unless one recognizes the trade can only logically be viewed as a short-term rental, they will be unable to recognize that it probably isn’t worth much draft capital to make that trade in the first place.
Thanks for your comment, Chris. It’s good to be around thoughtful and analytics friends with whom one can share insights. Rob’s a smart guy and there are many smart voices in this community.
Rob, thanks for taking time to talk at length about the issues that are important to you. This is totally the best Seahawks site anywhere. We are allowed to disagree and discuss. Yet in our western culture today, that is not allowed. You have to be in one camp or another. Everyone needs to know how to define everyone else. I love the discussion, or argument, but i believe people here are genuine and care about others opinion and for the most part will listen and sometimes even change there opinion.
Your 3 big opinions are totally valid. They aren’t negative, they are pragmatic. Pete will need to retire sometime and was probably the cause of some of the bad drafting and trading up to the last couple of drafts. We have seen a shift, and i think it is JS doing it. I think JS is now taking the lead in most things, and while many don’t like the Williams trade, i think it makes sense, if the goal is to restructure next year and resign him.
Pete needs to keep using Geno because of the $$ committment. I agree with many here who think that Lock would probably be better. He has NEVER imo had a real opportunity to show what he can do. He did a bit when Geno was injured, and i think the entire countance of the offense raised by many beets. He has the youthful energay that is needed. To make this change now though, quite possiblly really disrupt the team. I am hoping they trade Geno, keep Lock and draft the QBOTF.
Getting rid of the safety salary is way overdue. AM hoping this happens this off season.
Finally, i think we might have TOO MANY offensive weapons that dilutes their effectiveness. Are we going to be PASS first or RUN first? We have the weapons for either. But wondering if the game plan is influenced by the most vocal stars? If we really want to be run first, we need to make that commitment not just at RB but on the OL as well. I think they are going in this direction. YET, then you waste all these weapons we now have. They are all competing for touches. Personally, i would trade DK as we really don’t need him do we? Would our passing game fall apart? Couldn’t we use that for draft capital or upfront somewhere? I think this might happen.
The Wilson trade was magnificent. Selling at the peak of value. We should continue to do this.
Rob, you are best in NFL drafting and we have all been afraid you will get offered some big Front office job and then you wouldn’t be able to do the blog.
Keep it up.
Many fans confusing negativity for honesty and clarity.
I think if this blog as sort of a truth seeker oasis. I climbed out of the cave years ago. Early on, I found some of the in-season takes quite extreme, but realized later that viewing the Hawks team more objectively brought so much more clarity.
Rob was beating a drum about Russ and Pete rift years before the trade. In another millennium he would have been burned at the stake. Living out of state for so many years, I’ve come to appreciate the clarity that other fans and objective viewing can bring.
Unfortunately it’s probably going to take several more years of WC losses to the Niners for blue pilled fans to come around- and they’ll still hate this blog.
They are exactly as I predicted before the season 8-9/9-8 but more likely to be 9-8 and get in the playoffs through the backdoor and probably one and same song and dance. Also I think Spencer Rattler is a pipe dream at this point unless they are willing to trade up which will be very hard without a 2nd round pick.
Is it negative to have the opinion that Seattle is not as good as San Fran, Philly, Ravens, or Chiefs?
Is it negative to say that statistically Seattle is currently below league average in most important defensive and offensive stats?
As long as they are properly contextualized, statements of facts are neither positive or negative.
Rob,
Per your request, here are my responses:
1) Positivity – I come to SDB for the truth, both positive and negative. You can’t be accountable if you’re not honest. If SDB was only positive, it’d be no different from anywhere else. I appreciate that you offer real and heart-felt commentary and provide a space for others to do the same.
2) Pete Carroll – I agree that Pete can win a Super Bowl. My problem with Pete is that I think he can be better. There’s room for him to improve, but he seems reluctant to improve on his weaknesses. Discipline is #1 at the top of this list and I think it’s absolutely fair to criticize that his teams seem to consistently lack discipline. I firmly believe this is fixable and not in conflict with the player friendly environment that he fosters. Take the following observations about discipline from only the first half of last week’s game:
*Mafe not staying with this assignment (the RB), costs us 6 points.
*Someone please tell JSN he’s going to get flagged if he points in the defender’s face after the play. We don’t need to lose 15 yards to an unnecessary lapse of judgment.
*How do we have another 4th down delay of game??? This goes with the wasted time outs that we have seemingly every game, except even the time out here was too late to stop this loss of 5 yards (Pete where were you?).
*Another Jamal Adams mistackle
*More mistackles. Why do Pete coached teams miss so many tackles? This is a theme.
*Someone please tell Jamal Adams to get out of the face of the receiver after the play is over. Again, we don’t need to lose 15 yards to an unnecessary lapse of judgment. The play is over, go to the sideline. Your helmet in his face could cost us!
*Dropped pass by JSN, lack of discipline. Make the catch first, then run.
*Ugh. DK, watch how close the first down signal you’re making with your arm is to the defender’s face! It’s not necessary and we could lose 15 yards.
*Stop the extracurriculars after the Leonard Williams sack. Totally unnecessary self-created liabilities. Why would we risk a penalty after having stopped them?
*Ineligible man downfield on the kick. Daryl Taylor shows a lack of discipline.
*Completion in bounds with 2:35 to go, just let it go to the 2 minute warning. Clock management. We want to leave them with no time after we score and we’re already inside the 20. After the possession, Washington has one time out left now that they wouldn’t otherwise have. Thankfully, it didn’t bite us.
*Why did we call time out with 15 seconds to go? Take it down to 3 seconds and call time out. Terrible clock management. Now we lose 3 points because Geno doesn’t realize the situation and holds the ball too long – another discipline issue!
*Pete says at halftime the first half wasn’t “clean”.
*Another big play for WA because Dre’Mont Jones doesn’t stay with his assignment (RB). Lack of discipline! Also, that’s twice that a big man in coverage has cost us – and they only have two big plays.
3) Geno – i completely agree. We should be paying a rookie contract, a superstar or a cheap Baker Mayfield type, not $35-40M for Geno. Ask this – if we cut him, what would another team be willing to pay? That’s what we should be paying!
4) Safeties – I completely agree! Why did we pay Diggs when he was hurt? Then Pete excused away his poor play last year on the long recovery. Then we didn’t cut him in the offseason. Now we’re paying him for bottom of the league production. Adams is almost the exact same story. Ask yourself, what would another team pay them if we cut them? Exactly! Cut them both! Invest this money in the trenches, as you said. Pete used to talk about being the bully (isn’t it interesting that we haven’t heard that from him in awhile?). Since Lynch, I haven’t felt we could impose our will on any opponent in the ground game. Go get a Steve Hutchinson! A true guard/mauler! I agree, a stud guard or center.
#2 – good stuff man. All very legit points, but the loss of a FG attempt at the end of the first half was beyond egregious. I’m not excusing this stuff and certainly a more “buttoned down” HC would get most of it cleaned up, but I’m pretty numb to the blown time-outs, delay on 4th and 1, etc. But that blown FG attempt was a new stupidity low in the Carroll era to my memory.
Meant as a reply to Forrest
Since Rob brought up talking about qb’s and really that is my only focus this draft season some very early thoughts:
( full disclosure I don’t watch or care about the following: Williams because no one is trading out of him. Maye, same. And Penix I believe is going top 15 and Seattle as of today is picking #26 so my focus is in who Seattle could draft)
Jordan Travis. Runs with that duck, dodge, and dive energy of maybe Lamar. Beautiful arm on deep passes. I’m personally a sucker for QB’s that throw stunning passes down field though that’s probably a stupid thing to covet because I’d expect something like 90+% of all throws in the NFL are around nine yards.
Also second coming of Wilson in size. Listed at 6’1″ 212lb. So when I apply my ‘real measurement calculator’* trademark pending…let’s say 6’ flat and 200 lbs.
Will Howard: has officially moved into future casting mode for me. He’s big. He’s way faster and more decisive running than most. Has a soft, poochy build of a big kid that can sack on some strength in a few years.
Also I’ve never seen so much content made about a qb that has nothing to do with their skills and everything to do with who they are.
But. As a qb that fits very squarely into “what could be,” he’s been dogged on basically every year he’s been in school. A multi time back up passed over for other players from incumbent always injured starters to transfer portal anointed starters and just keeps grinding it out.
I wonder what a guy with size, speed, strength,the ability to throw lasers sometimes, cannons, and deceptive RPO fake hand offs could do if they had some real training and weren’t always a begrudging ‘option #2’.
Just me comparing notes: with Howard, as soon as Rob mentioned how well he can layer his throws, I had that thought the day before when I finally got through the Texas game. And about him being a bit of an underdog, WHY THE HELL ARE THEY STILL SPLITTING CARRIES?? I say splitting loosely, it isn’t as bad as the past. But one drive had the freshman backup in. And he did zero.
Yet Howard didn’t play well but dragged them back into the game. He had one touchdown in particular that was over the receiver’s shoulder and phenomenal catch. Yet Howard put it where only Brooks could get it.
I want to watch more tape on Travis. I do already know that I want him over Daniels. Daniels looks the same as he did at ASU to me, and if you take out Burrow, the LSU (and Brian Kelly) quarterbacks just don’t pan out. Don’t really trust him.
Still need and want to watch Cook, Leonard, and Ewers (will watch the last two until it’s confirmed that they are going back). I’ve watched very little with Cook, but was intrigued. Has a little swagger to him that Lock never had at Mizzou. Also watched very little of Leonard, but was impressed with his pocket awareness. Doesn’t look like he gets overwhelmed.
If Seattle drafts Daniels I won’t care one way or the other.
I het his build and see a guy getting injured easily. Looks all the world to me like Geno in college.
I’ve paused a bit in Leonard due to injury.
I really like what I saw with Travis. It’s just the height for me.
Haven’t watched any Cook yet.
Ewers….just don’t know if Seattle is the team for him. I see him in my mind with a real OC and not someone who may be flummoxed by too many choices.
I kind of can see him in Denver. As they work their way out if the Williams sweepstakes.
The combo of where Ewers is, his inconsistencies, and our coaching staff’s inability to develop ANYONE scares the hell out of me if we drafted him.
Greg Olson was definitely brought in for a reason. He specializes in developing too much. I just don’t trust Pete and Waldron. At all.
I could definitely see Payton wanting him and buying one more year of Russ to get Ewers ready. And we can finally see what happens when Russ has a legit young guy behind him.
Btw….what in the world is with the k-state reporters?
A good never great program with maybe the most critical beat reporters relative to program size.
I saw a clip where the TE Ben Sitton basically told them all to pound sand on their constant critiques of Howard.
Pete and Co. Would get eaten alive out in the flatlands.
Wow really. The guy is the reason that they had a close game with Texas, let alone a chance to win it. They haven’t had it too badly with quarterbacks. I found out that Colin Klein is the OC (Heisman finalist, played against Geno in college).
He has at least gotten coaching that will prepare him for the NFL. They have guys take off immediately, at different positions.
Thanks Rob. You are spot on with respect to your three main points. Championships are won in the trenches and at QB — not at safety. Until we pay as much attention to our D line as we have just done with our OTs, we will not make it to the NFC championship game let alone the Super Bowl. I fear that PC’s ego is so invested in JA that he won’t make the change, and that Diggs is considered somehow a leader that cannot be cut. I tremendously appreciate your pragmatism. I don’t read it as negativity, but rather a clear-eyed analysis of the team and its needs going forward. I am eager for the day when your honest assessment is all sunshine and flowers, because that means we have a team that is in true contention for another SB win. Thanks for your in-depth insights and analysis — you are the best in the business!
I read a comment yesterday that said Leonard Williams buying a house in Seattle is proof he’s signing an extension this season.
You can’t make this stuff up.
Hopefully buying Dre Jones’ house
I heard he also signed up for a Safeway card so that he can save 20c on yogurt, or something. He’s really putting down roots here.
Great breakdown. I can quibble with your conclusions while still agreeing completely with the spirit of the presentation.
Can Pete Carroll win another Super Bowl is the real sticking point for me. Sure, if you give him one of the finest collections of talent that has ever been assembled, Pete’s approach to the game can win a Super Bowl.
It is unlikely that Seattle will be able to even come close to that level of talent again. There were 6 potential Hall of Famers on those teams in their prime, with 3 of them in the secondary alone.
There are a lot of coaches that can win a Super Bowl with that kind of talent.
The question is whether or not Pete can win a Super Bowl in the modern NFL with a very good, but not historic, roster.
The answer seems to be, if he does this differently or that differently, he can. Pete is likely the reason for the disproportionate salaries going to safeties. Pete not only believes in a point guard at quarterback, but doesn’t want to be too dependent on quarterback play, while the rest of the league embraces the concept knowing the risks of putting so many eggs in one basket, because quarterback play is the single biggest correlation to playoff success. Even the guys like Flacco and Foles, who weren’t consistently elite, had fantastic runs in their Super Bowl seasons.
Pete needs a better coaching staff, but he puts that group together and to outward appearances, doing things the way Pete wants them done is far more important than finding the people who would shine when given more control.
Can Pete win a Super Bowl in 2023+? Sure, if he stops being Pete Carroll and acts more like a modern head coach.
Not sure why people feel Pete wants less at QB.
The guy admitted they won a ton of games because of Wilson.
He had Palmer, Sanchez, and Leinart. All different but all stars during their runs.
I did not mean to imply that he wants anything other than a quality quarterback. It was more about his philosophy of the quarterback’s role and the words are basically straight from the horse’s mouth.
I believe Pete’s biggest flaw is an overestimation of both his approach to the game and how close his team is to being able to consistently compete at the top levels of the game with that approach.
I think if Pete had a more modern conception of how important the quarterback position is, we wouldn’t be watching Geno on Sundays.
I believe the flaws in the team are basically a reflection of the flaws of the coach. They are intrinsic to Pete himself.
I agree with a lot of this. Looking at a best of USC list during Pete’s time it is heavy with LB’s and safeties as the premium position.
Both spots are currently trending to far less important.
Bingo. And the organization’s biggest issue is that there is no one left to challenge him in that approach.
Nobody listens to Brodie.
Close the beach he said. That shark is gonna eat people he said. But noooooooo, the mayor didn’t listen. That kind of talk is bad for business.
And then that little boy’s Mom slapped him in the face.
You just know it’s gonna be a long swim home on the flotsam of the Orca at the end.
🤣
This might be quite a heavy view to take, especially on here, but there might be something cultural in the approach of American’s generally towards positivity bias. And in many ways it might not be such a bad thing.
I think European history and geography with many countries competing for resources and different cultural identities in a relatively small geographical space, has set us up temprementally to be much more cynical, suspicious and inquisitvie of things than Americans generally are. Americans who’ve built a big and without doubt the most powerful country on earth in just over 200 years, on a spirit of entrepreneurship, belief in good outcomes and also faith.
The ‘American dream’ sets up a very positive vision of what’s possible.
Also faith is important in America and what’s faith but the belief that there are better alternatives without imperical evidence that the positive vision they believe in actually exists. I see evidence of these traits often in those that talk of haters or people being negative, it’s because these people and I’m not suggesting all Americans are like this or that people who talk in such a way are naive people, but maybe there are people who believe that not to follow something ‘religiously’, meaning not to question the rationale behind the way things are done, is almost a kind of blasphemy, by those that don’t follow the script(ure). And they’ll be those of secular faith, who’ll believe in the ability and goodness of others, because that’s part of their cultural identity and to find weaknesses and faults in other things is a contradiction of what path in life they want to follow. It can’t be explained but it’s part of a cultural identity, for some to be this way.
Anyway perhaps that’s a bit heavy, but I don’t think those that are like this will change there approach, except it would be a bit easier if they could allow others to be more inquisitive?
This may be relevant to the conversation about PC.
Last year he was asked what he is most proud of in his Seahawks tenure.
His answer? Building one of the greatest defenses in NFL history by defying current logic? Winning a Super Bowl? Taking a team to back to back Super Bowls?
No.
He said he’s most proud of consistently having a winning record.
I am not going to overreact to that answer. He may be looking at his current crew and not wanting to signal he prefers an old team or players to them.
But honestly, would anyone begrudge PC for saying any of those three answers I listed?
And furthermore, it would appear to give credence to our long-held belief/fear that PC prefers simply keeping his head above water year to year to building a true Super Bowl contender.
That’s what I‘be been wondering & concerned about. Pete seems content & comfortable with being above average. “Win Forever” means 9-7(8 now).
Winning in the NFL is hard. Consistently winning even harder. And when it’s all said and done, maybe that IS what fans will remember, the days when we had a winning team. It’s ok to proud if that.
But- that shouldn’t be the GOAL. The goal should be to win the damn Superbowl every single year and to operate in a manner that helps you reach that goal.
I believe that with that goal the wins will follow. (eventually). Sometimes it’s hard to recognize that to get closer to your goal you need to step backwards or go the long way. Who knows where Pete’s head is. But if his goal isn’t to win the Superbowl each and every single year, than he shouldn’t be coaching in the NFL.
I was at my girl’s softball game listening to a Steelers fan talking with another parent about his team. He said “Pickett ain’t it”. What followed sounded like a fan lamenting his team is most of the same ways we do. Good-not-great. Game has passed the coach by. Reminiscing about the good old days… It got me thinking, so I looked it up last night, and ya – Pittsburgh is the Hawks of the AFC.
Revered head coach that won the SB back in the day and will have to really bungle things up to be forced out. Hasn’t innovated or hired a difference making coordinator in memory and now wields an unbalanced level of authority in the org.
Both of us used to be the bully, the defense teams hated to face, the home field advantage of envy. Now, none of those things are true.
Both made it to the Super Bowl and won, then fell short on their next try. Since then it’s been a spin cycle of good seasons where they usually eke into the playoffs, only to be back home on the couch the next week.
Both almost always seem to have a winning record, but also seem to make every victory insanely hard.
2023 specific: Two good RB’s and a talented receiving corps, but it never comes together for the offense and QB looks like the biggest issue. 30th and 32nd in Time of possession.
Both teams with 6-3 records and both teams with more points allowed than scored.
Both teams likely on track for another wild card one-and-done.
that actually rings pretty true….
Rob I am guessing you would have a strong reaction to this, given your day job.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/multiple-sideline-reporters-react-to-charissa-thompsons-admission-of-faked-sideline-reports
I think it’s absolutely horrendous and frankly unbelievable
Inglemoron
Sorry, couldn’t help myself
Funny….I wonder how many readers get your reference. It helps to be a local.
Oh I got it it.
Having gone to two “competing” districts and two different HS’s, inglemoor and Juanita, I can safely say they’re all morons….
Wow! An Inglemoor reference on my favorite blog. I’m apoplectic!
SDB deep cuts
Pete did say in the last year or two that Carson Palmer was his ideal QB. Will Howard is similarly sized. If that was the only criteria that mattered I’d place a bet.
Carson Palmer 6’5″ 230 lbs
Will Howard 6’5″ 242 lbs
Joe Burrow has been sacked twice and has Raven rushers in his face almost every play.
He’s 11 for 17 for 101 yards and a touchdown so far.
The offensive coordinator clearly planned for this.
And the small fact that he IS Joe Burrow after all. A bit of a quicker processor than most.
Yes, that’s the point.
My bad. That wasn’t Cha’s point, but I think it is a part of the problem. Cincy has a plan AND a quarterback that can respond to Baltimore’s defense. Seattle had neither.
They are stopping Thursday Night Football because of a drone over the field.
I guess I won’t be asking Jim Nagy if I can take one to Senior Bowl practices.
Cincy is a perfect example of why it is okay to be completely dependent on quarterback play. If Burrow can’t go again this year, the Bengals have no hope.
Yet they have been to the Super Bowl and an AFC Championship game because he is elite. Any season he is healthy, the Bengals are a threat to win it all.
Most contenders are reliant on great quarterback play, yet Seattle seeks to reduce the dependence of team success on the play of one position.
Erin Andrews: “Who was talking about you?”
https://apnews.com/article/joe-burrow-bengals-ravens-quarterbacks-injuries-ede4d7b8b00478698a442b9ac51da438
Just wanted to let everyone know that Seattle is not the only team with QB problems.
I worry if Burrow will have similar injury problems to Andrew Luck. It sucks too because he’s great amd easy to route for, and that fanbase has waited so long for a guy like that to make them relevant. Hope he heals fast and can still have a chance this year. That division is murderers row this year.
Chris: I couldn’t agree with you more. The Bengals MUST provide an offensive line that protects Joe Burrow. That should be their number 1, number 2, number 3 etc. etc. priority.
It frustrates me to no end how the Bengals continue to let Burrows get hit. Don’t they understand. This is insane.
I just saw that they expect Burrow to miss the rest of the season, hopeful he can make it back for playoffs. Sherman was so critical of TNF before hosting it, I think he was right. Another example of the league dismissing player safety to get one more primetime game.
Here is my irritant for the week: fans in general are finally opening up to the idea of drafting someone. The debate is the fact that a rookie can’t be any better than Geno. Therefore, Geno has to come back. There CANNOT be any drop in wins. There cannot be any backtracking. That is the toxic mindset: the wins are what matters. Not developing, getting better, creating a longer window, fixing the cap.
And who says that a rookie won’t be better? Wouldn’t surprise me if a Spencer Rattler overtook Geno just like Russ won the job.
What a lot of people want is just to throw late-round picks at guys and have them develop. Then MAYBE they can be good enough to have a chance to start. All the while, keep going with Geno. So keep doing what we have been: play a middle-of-the-road quarterback that is getting paid too much in comparison to his production, and hope that we fall into someone by being cheap in terms of assets.
There is an irrational fear of early-round quarterbacks.
It’s going to be a very long not fun off season.
I’m already wasting time trying to explain that worth as a pejorative and value as in where you can draft a player are different things.
If you looked through the comments on Rob’s latest video there was a person(s) who kept with the “yeah, well, tell me what rookie ever balled out….”
Like poster Chris alluded to above that’s not the question. It’s what rookie contract qbs have done well and that gulf is pretty wide.
The endless trade out of the first for future firsts….folks it doesn’t happen. If Seattle has pick #20 or lower to get into the second round the raw value is an extra third and an extra fifth. Period.
Then the qbs. It’s almost this three headed monster of: first round picks are busts, just get one late because Brady, or my absolute *favorite* Trent dilfer won a super bowl. So you’re saying Geno actually isn’t good? Wait til you find out that our team is about 19 spots away in scoring defense to be an all timer that can ‘carry’ a mid tier qb.
Then a slim slice of the pie chart. The Huskies. Penix is not my top choice but even then I think as of today he’ll be the third qb taken at or before pick #15. So you want him? Great we’ll be the team burning future firsts to move up around 5-10 spots.
I’ve wasted so much time this week debating to people telling me that the sky is green on this topic.
And Rob’s Youtube videos…get really, really weird comments…. I’ve mentioned that before. Some of those are the fans that will double down on an opinion no matter what.
We can’t keep trading back. You don’t win by having the most picks. The team ingrained that mindset into fans over the years and it backfired on everyone.
And Dilfer…he is who gets mentioned first with the whole “you don’t need an elite quarterback.” He had maybe the best defense ever. Terrific offensive line and running back, good receivers. What is easier to build: the 9er’s building their defense (even just a great defense, let alone a historic one), or the Chiefs going with a chance at an upgrade and going from Alex Smith to Patrick Mahomes?
It is such a long season and offseason for this….
I really appreciate this video, and I wish more people would open their mind outside this blog and consider the arguments Rob is making. I really do believe if the goal is to win a superbowl, we need to move on.
However, from a business perspective I think there is very little chance Pete Carroll could ever get fired unless he stops making the playoffs regularly. Fans and owners have different goals. Fans want to win a superbowl, which is why getting a new coach would probably be smart. Owners buy teams to make SAFE money. Pete Carroll is the definition of safe money, he gets us either to the playoffs or close every single year meaning fan attendance stays high until week 17, people still keep buying jerseys, and people keep watching on TV.
Obviously every owner would prefer the super bowl, which increases their earnings more… But the risk of changing coaches is too high for most owners to give up a coach that makes them money every single year, always in contention for the playoffs. This is why fortune 500 companies don’t change CEOs very often just because they are not improving their earnings…because they have no idea what a new guy will do. The uncertainty is more scary than acceptable results. This is especially true in the NFL because coaching changes are highly volatile..you can do an amazing search and hire the hottest guy, but he could easily be a failure. Most owners will always take the option of safe money and consistently making the playoffs. As a fan I wish they would take the risk, but the only way I see it is possible is if there is so much fan backlash that the owners are pressured into the change. Which is why I wish people would take these honest critcisms from pepole like Rob more seriously…Lets just hope Carroll retires soon lol.
Burrow out for the season… Damn
Just came in to post it too
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38921229/bengals-qb-joe-burrow-season-likely-needs-surgery
When are the Bengals going to wake up and realize that they need to protect Burrows. Burrows is their FRANCHISE.
The Bengals have tried
It’s not as simple as just ‘getting a great OL’
They have spent money & picks
I said it earlier but ypu have to wonder how much TNF plays into some of these injuries? The leauge jeopardizing player safety for another primetime game.
Coma indeed: https://x.com/rosstuckernfl/status/1725624880500990263?s=46&t=cOHU3a7sncZq-_1QP4M1Og
damn, thats seems pretty disrespectful
It’s taken me a few days to think this great thought piece over, enjoy the comments, and think of something that might be worth adding to the discussion. For me, the situation is doubly exacerbated by the poor standard of the NFC currently. On one level I look at the opposition and think I would question the organization’s competitive instinct if they didn’t pursue an all in approach when everyone else is eminently beatable THIS YEAR. On the other hand, the conference weakness means you can be a 10 win team and flame out in the playoffs without giving your fans the satisfaction of even watching any good football. There is little to no joy in piling up wins like we had against the Cards and Commanders, squeaking by teams that it is almost impossible actually to lose to. It would be one thing to “settle” and be proud of consistent winning seasons if that meant coming up short having played good opposition and good football along the way, but taking pride in stumbling to winning seasons and making the NFC playoffs almost by default is just depressing.
“…but then I also see a lot of people saying ‘you’re just constantly negative,’ and i don’t really understand where’s that comes from, because if there’s one thing we really try to do on the channel, it’s be really balanced.”
“I want you to tell me, in the comments section, what is unfair about any of these opinions?”
Later:
“Tell me why any of those opinions are overly negative, overly pessimistic, unfair, unbalanced….”
If I’m not mistaken, the number of commenters who took RS up on the challenge was zero. I will probably strike out, but thought I’d give it a go.
The short answer is that there’s nothing wrong with the opinions.
But the longer answer is that what I think is “overly negative” about this blog, is not the opinions.
To start with, this blog is great and Rob Staton is pretty amazing. But (always a but) I would say there’s a bit of a Jekyll/Hyde quality here.
All of the draft stuff is of a very high quality, in my view. Extremely fair and balanced. RS always it make “this is what I’m seeing, others are seeing it different, make of that what you will.” RS always lets the data tell the story.
And much of the Seahawk analysis is good also. I think the opinions are all good, and very welcome.
But I’d say a lot of it not saying “what is the story here” are seeing how the data, as it accretes, answer the questions but instead, saying “we know what the story is” and gathering and using data with an eye to pushing that story.
My view is that as the Seahawks play their game each, the larger story isn’t really changing very much. Right now the Seahawks are 16th in overall DVOA, 20th in defensive DVOA, 11th in offensive DVOA. That’s who they are now and I would take that as my best guess that that’s where they’ll end up. It might mean 9 – 8 or 10 – 7 and in the playoffs, it might be 8 -9 or even 7 -10.
If the Seahawks should lose badly against the Rams, I know I’m likely to get some “Pete Carroll’s defense year after year” stuff and some “this shows once again that Geno Smith is not the answer” stuff – a lot of fulminating. Do I learn anything new from that? No.
If they should win big, will I get the countervailing takes? Any “maybe this will be the year the defense finally comes around” or “this is at least some evidence in Geno’s favor?” I’m doubtful.
Last week they put up 490 and we got:
“They can’t do anything for long stretches, then they come to life for a bit.”
Again, I’m in broad agreement with RS’s opinions. But I think instead of pushing these opinions all the time, it would be better just to let things play out and see what happens – just let the accretion of data tell the story.
Consider this from last year:
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/well-its-time-to-face-the-quarterback-facts
“We know what Smith is. He is a player who has proven to be thoroughly mediocre. It’s possible the Seahawks are the sole reason he remains an actual NFL player.”
“He turns 32 this year. The ship has long sailed on any lingering potential. He is what he is. A player who, but for the Seahawks, might struggle for a backup job somewhere else. After all, in recent years he has remained on the market for a long time before eventually returning to Seattle.”
“Thus, the Seahawks will go into the season with not just the worst QB situation in the league — but arguably one of the worst in a decade.”
The “facts” referenced in this blog entry turned out to be not facts. Of course this was overly negative – there was no good reason for making these statements. They were never facts, they were opinions or at best informed guesses. RS should have more open to a wider possible range of outcomes in the Geno Experiment and this would still be true *even if Geno had been as bad as expected.*
And having whiffed so badly there, I think RS should be more open to a wider range of outcomes as regards every Seahawks issue. Should we move on from Pete? Should Geno come back next year? Is Waldron a bum?
I’d say keep the opinions, just keep an open mind and just let the data, as it accretes, tell the story. Don’t let the opinions tell the story.