Russell Wilson and Odell Beckham Jr embrace in week six
This hasn’t been a good season for Cleveland or Odell Beckham Jr.
An off-season of hype has translated into a regular season of mediocrity. A bad mix of ego, star names and a rookie Head Coach has produced a 6-7 record (with three of those wins coming against the Jets, Dolphins and Bengals).
Beckham Jr was their big off-season splash. OBJ was going to help elevate Baker Mayfield to stardom. At least that was the hope.
Instead he’s clashed with the league over the decision to wear a designer watch during a game. He wore the wrong cleats, leading to the NFL threatening to prevent him from playing in the second half of a loss against Denver.
Beckham Jr has 844 yards for the season — 25th most in the league — and only two touchdowns.
For a player who had 4122 yards and 35 touchdowns in his first three seasons in the NFL — this isn’t what you’d expect. In 2016 he was well on his way to becoming an all-time great. In the three seasons since there’s been too much drama, injuries and a lack of elite production.
Over the weekend reports emerged that he’s been sending out ‘come and get me’ pleas to other teams.
The issues are not all OBJ’s fault though. He suffered through the final years of Eli Manning and Mayfield — for all his repetitive and annoying commercials — doesn’t appear to be as good as advertised.
He needs a fresh start — preferably with a team that has a strong culture, a winning reputation and a quarterback in his prime.
The Seahawks, in that sense, are an ideal fit.
For starters they’ve never shied away from a big name. They go where other teams won’t — trading for Marshawn Lynch and Percy Harvin for example. They entertained the possibility of signing Antonio Brown this year and were the only team to make a waiver claim for Josh Gordon.
They’ve accommodated a wide variety of personalities over the years and had more success than failure doing so.
They aren’t the only team to fit the bill. New England are equally willing to take a shot. The 49ers also need to keep adding talent at receiver as do the Packers.
However — San Francisco is only projected to have about $18m in cap space next season. The Pats are expected to have $42m but if they re-sign Tom Brady, a large chunk of that will disappear. The Packers have $25m to spend.
All three have key free agents to re-sign or replace too. For Green Bay it’s Blake Martinez and Bryan Bulaga. For New England it’s Brady and Devin McCourty. For the Niners it’s Emmanuel Sanders and Arik Armstead.
While the Seahawks also have some big name free agents (Jadeveon Clowney, Jarran Reed, Germain Ifedi) they also have about $72m available.
Beckham Jr’s cap hit in 2020 is $14,250,000. That’s currently only the 14th highest for a wide receiver next year. He’s contracted until the end of the 2023 season and the hit never tops $15,750,000.
Russell Wilson is at the heart of everything for this team now. The difference between his early season form when he had a fully healthy Tyler Lockett and Will Dissly compared to what we’re seeing currently is stark.
He needs weapons. Lot’s of them. While Lockett and D.K. Metcalf are locked-in as long term members of the roster — there are question marks elsewhere. Is David Moore or Malik Turner a long-term #3? Will Jaron Brown and Josh Gordon even be here next season? With Dissly’s injury history, don’t they need security and talent at tight end too?
Wilson deserves the best possible arsenal. If they’re willing to trade for Harvin and Graham in 2013 and 2015 — with the team as well placed as it was — they should consider bolstering Wilson’s options this off-season now that he’s the focal point.
The Seahawks and Beckham Jr could be good for each other. He gets to play with a top-tier quarterback during his prime. It’s a mature roster that celebrates personality and unique qualities. He already has a relationship with Wilson and they’ve spent time working out during off-season training. It’s also a highly productive offense that loves to take shots downfield using sudden and explosive receivers.
As noted in yesterday’s piece, the Seahawks reportedly loved Beckham Jr in 2014.
Jadeveon Clowney and Quandre Diggs moved to Seattle and look superb. There’s no reason why OBJ couldn’t enjoy similar success.
It’s also worth noting how rich the 2020 draft class is at receiver. If a player like Jalen Reagor, Henry Ruggs or K.J. Hamler was available in the late first round, that’s a cheaper albeit less proven alternative.
However, it’s easy to forget what people were saying about Beckham Jr at this time in 2013. A lot of mocks, believe it or not, had him as a borderline first or second round pick (not us — we loved him as you can see here). I suspect Reagor, Ruggs and Hamler will fly up the boards after running at the combine. All three will test superbly and will go earlier that they’ve currently being projected.
If that happens the Seahawks will have to look elsewhere. Considering it’s a poor class for pass rushers they might prefer to use their first pick on a proven veteran — just as they did in 2013 and 2015 — to make a statement that they’re going to fully support their star quarterback.
They’d still have two second round picks to spend. They have the cap room.
And if it isn’t him — don’t rule out a trade for a pass rusher (call it a reverse Frank Clark), a different receiver (Stefon Diggs?) or a tight end (O.J. Howard?).
Whatever happens this season, the Seahawks are at the end of the transition. Now they’re approaching a window of opportunity.
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Schotty on with Schefter at 21:00 mark.
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=28268180
RW puts together an entire scouting report (1st, 2nd, 3rd down, coaches, D-coordinator…) on his own early in the week (Tues. around 2-3pm he finishes it) and gives it to the players. Schotty says it rivals any scouting report that we [coaches] have ever done. Shows the other players how much he puts into the preparation.
Says Seattle culture is the most special he’s been in. Letting each player be himself, helping them to be the best version of themselves, and discovering how each guy can best help the team.
Schotty hoping a HC opportunity for him arises “in the next little bit”.
Thinks we might see Andrew Luck coaching at some point.
His dad lives in Charlotte so he will be able to see him on the trip this week.
Schotty has been a fantastic addition.
There’s no such thing as a perfect play-caller. The results since he arrived speak for themselves. Run game fixed, Russell Wilson enjoying two exceptional years, O-line in a better place, young talent emerging.
He deserves praise.
The OC has actually been pretty good. He has been played with a slightly diminished deck at TE the whole season…. so one set of weapons have been off the table. The OL, overall looks better… the passing game overall, has looked better. The run/pass % has been pretty good… not many wacky 40 pass attempt games like back in 2017. H really has played (called) to the offensive strengths and let RW be RW for the most part. And maybe that is the most underrated aspect of work… making RW much more efficient and highly productive… with limited pass attempts.
I agree.
Be interesting to see what they tweak and use to adapt in the next couple weeks. Defenses have done a good job shutting down the pass plays the past few weeks. I have confidence they will come up with something, despite the continued losses of key players
I love him as our OC but I don’t really see Schotty as a head coach. Too many times I’ve seen an excellent coordinator fail as a HC. Time will tell I guess.
Our culture and our players (RW, Duane Brown) have proven great recruiters in the past. Clowney as well has been vocal about how awesome it is to play for Seattle. That could be a big tool in recruiting FA/trade targets this off-season.
Hard to say if you take a risk on OBJ and the possible drama he seems to bring everywhere he goes or take a shot on one of the stud young WRs in the draft. I’m sure they won’t be afraid to take a shot if the right opportunity arises. But while Beckham is the proven talent, he’s also been injured a lot and will need sports hernia surgery in the off-season.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001084698/article/browns-wr-odell-beckham-playing-through-sports-hernia
Also of note, cap is set to rise by at least $8.6m next year. Pretty much expected, but still a little more wiggle room for teams tight up against the cap.
For me it would be all about what you had to give up. If it was our first I wouldnt want to. If it was a second then I would. Im always nervous adding receivers as it takes time to gel and that is a lot of money to wait on.Would it be Percy Harvin part 2 or would it put you over the top? Most of the time these big deals dont end up ;like you think they would. Personally if I had a vote I would vote no.
I’m with you Greg. Maybe the hernia has hurt his performance this year but he hasn’t looked like the dynamic playmaker he was early in his career. Injuries appear to have taken their toll (still great ball skills though!).
It’s a lot of money, a lot of possible drama (I want to keep the kicker nets at the CLINK safe) before we even consider the trade compensation. I’d do it for a 2nd at most all things considered.
It’s not that much money. 14th highest paid receiver in 2020 and that’s before Amari and others get paid.
Well, receivers get crazy money. Lots of other things that money could do but I agree the contract isn’t a huge deal. He hasn’t been a top 14 receiver this year despite his top 14 salary. I’m just not sure if he is going to ever get back to top form. Not even the best receiver on his team this year.
It’s an intersting thought. I had such a thought of going after John Ross of the Bengals. It would cost us less in draft capital than OBJ, and his CAP hit is far less at about 5.4 million. Both are risks/rehabs of a sort, and OBJ has certainly proven to be a star whereas Ross hasn’t, though Ross does have explosive upside potential if he’s put in the right situation and he stays healthy. He sure torched us game one of the season.
I want big money spent on the D-line, and our O-Line well propped up. Yes, RW needs targets. It’s his prime time. If we made a move for OBJ, I’d certainly embrace the possibilities it would engender.
So many possibilities this off-season. It makes my head spin.
Hey Rob. Any reason why you haven’t mentioned a trade for Trent Williams as a possibility? He’s one of the best tackles in the league and we have upcoming questions at tackle with Fant and Ifedi slayed to be free agents (and probably getting paid big money) and Duane Brown isn’t getting any younger. He’s an athletic freak and a mauler in the run game. Kind of guy that sets the tone up front and an instant upgrade to Ifedi and insurance for Duane (he’s played RT and LT).
He’s also disgruntled and refuses to play for the redskins so they are in a bad negotiating position so the compensation might not be too steep for a player of his caliber (could be another clowney level steal). You don’t want a rookie tackle (for obvious reasons) so why not a vet like Trent. His contract is a good value too. Thanks for the new article as always.
I did mention it before the deadline in terms of looking ahead to the off-season. He’s played his entire pro career at LT so I doubt he has much interest switching to RT now. He’s older too and would be a high cost in terms of picks for a short term move. I wouldn’t rule it out but don’t think it’s that likely. I could see him going to Green Bay.
I’m not advocating for trading for another aging, veteran tackle, but he’s better than Duane is right now. If they were to acquire him, no reason Trent would be the one to move over. Duane is a solid guy, but definitely not “elite”.
Duane Brown is a vital player for this team in terms of performance and leadership. For some reason Seahawks fans have been plotting his removal since he joined. There’s absolutely no reason to replace him. It was a sensational trade.
I don’t think it’s a zero sum proposition. I think there is room for both.if Seattle were to trade for Trent then Trent would be the obvious play at LT with Brown moving to RT. At this stage of Browns career it would be the logical choice.
Seattle still ranks bottom third in pass pro and there and the defensive line is where I expect resources to go to improve the team next season.
No it would not be the logical choice to mess around and replace a vital member of the roster.
That commercial where Baker and the janitor stare at each other in silence violates the Geneva Convention.
Doesn’t the commercial,
where he is trying to find the “beeping” smoke detector,
sum up the Browns season?
This made me laugh too hard. Well done.
Rob, I respect your opinion but OBJ comes with overhead. I understand we had success with Beast mode but we had our share of pain with P. Harvin. I will consider if we are signing as FA but trading will be far fetch for me.
I’m not really for or against the move. Just throwing is out there as a possibility.
Here are the Hawks top 50 picks in the past 5 years – Collier, Blair, Penny, McDowell, Ifedi, Richardson
Would you swap any of those for a 28 yr old Beckham? Hell yes.
Lots of pro bowler and all pro players picked in the top 50 in the last 5 years also. I sure wouldn’t trade Metcalf for OBJ at this point. The future has no memory bro.
That being said I’d still be excited if it happened. Draft is a crapshoot but so is OBJ.
Well put, I was against it at first thought but after that comment you can trade 2 #1 for him
McDowell! I’d trade him for, uh, let me check … [checks], yup, for anyone.
Good thought but we already have Lockette and DK as 1-2 receivers. Do we need another high paid? I don’t know how Lockette takes it relegating to #2 and losing attention he deserves. the need is at TE and not sure if Hawks focus on WR at this time unless they plan to move on from Lockette at some point.
Can’t wait for Week#17 to see where we stand in terms of play off push! Go Hawks.
Interesting thought experiment Rob. If I was a betting man, I would say that free agency will play out in a fashion where the hawks sign or trade for a pass rusher or two. That would leave them free to use on or two of their first 3 picks in rounds 1 and 2 on a weapon for Wilson. Doesn’t matter which, but most likely WR/TE/RB is what they will focus on.
Only way I see them going for OBJ would be if they can get him for a second, ive watched a few of his games this year and I have seen way too many drops for my liking. Seeing as how we are not a high volume passing offense, those drops would be killers for us, as seen in the last Rams game.
I do think this will be or should be one of the most interesting free agency periods considering that they do appear to be entering a window of opportunity post LOB.
One things seems certain for the Hawks in the coming weeks. We’re going to see more of Prosise and Homer. There’s one tiny thing about Shotty that has bugged me. It seems that almost every time Prosise gets the ball they him up the middle between the tackles. Prosise was made for the sweep, or the screen pass, or running a short route.
As for Homer, we’re going to find out if this guy’s got anything special about him.
Resign Clowney, Reed, Ifedi, Fant, Hollister. Sign Yannick Ngakoue. Trade our 1st for ODB. Draft a 2/3 of DL, OL, TE in the 2nd round.
And sign Antonio Brown 😎
So you’re still on board with the woman abuser in our liberal progressive city? LOL
Just put on a Muslim hat and you will be fine.
Check yourself.
“Muslim hat”
LOL. Yeah, wtf is that?
‘Merica.
Casual bigotry. Very cool, very chill.
What does sexual assault (crime/law) have to do with politics? Let’s stay on sports in deference to Rob and his good work.
Let’s not be stupid. At some point a player’s transgressions have an impact on their market value, and in some cases can eliminate the market for them entirely. It’s also true that certain cities/regions place a higher value on a player’s conduct than others. I don’t think, for instance, that PC/JS want to alienate any of their fan base by putting all such notions aside by taking a standard-less winning-is-all-that-matters posture.
Careful.
Jody Allen, the trust, PC/JS will pass on Antonio Brown because of his character without consideration of how it ‘plays’ in our woke city. I think they’re above that.
It’s has nothing to do with political orientation and everything to do with personal ethics/morality. To imply otherwise is insulting to liberals and conservatives.
Go your own way.
You basically made my point for me. I’m not sure what you were arguing.
Figured as much. Your original comment implied how crimes play (politically, otherwise) in certain markets is more important than the crimes. If wrong, I apologize.
I think you just took something I said the wrong way. I was speaking about public relations. Leaders of enterprises that serve the public don’t make decisions in an isolated vacuum. They have to take into consideration the particular constituencies they serve and/or are dependent upon. That’s all I was saying.
No big deal.
Just say NO!
I never do this want/forecast thing…but…main moves…
1) Resign: Clowney, Fant, Hollister, Iupati
2) Pause on resigning: Reed, Ifedi, Carson (see where the chips start falling first)
3) Trade 3rd round pick for John Ross ( or lesser pick(s) )
4) Draft top prospect WR that falls to us in Round 1 of the draft; if not then draft best OLman; or trade down for more picks
5) Draft BAP’s at DL or TE or OL or WR with 2nd round picks
6) Do the best you can with the rest of your picks (RB, TE, OL, DL, CB, etc…)
7) Go after and get best edge rusher on the FA or trade market that you can
8) Resign Carson
9) If you have enough CAP left, resign Reed
10) If you have enough CAP left, resign Ifedi
11) Do your UDFA/FA thing
Hopefully you end up with…
WR’s–John Ross, Tyler Lockett, DK, rookie prospect, others…
DL–Clowney, Reed, killer FA, Ford, Collier, Greene, etc…
TE–Dissley, Hollister, draft pick, FA
OL–Brown, Iupati, Ifedi, draft picks, Jones, Pocic, however the rest shakes out
Or something like that…LOL…I suck at this….
– Iupati was a one year stopgap. His age and injury history make him a continuing risk.
– Reed is DT with that can generate a pass rush from the middle. Those are rare. Sign him.
– Ifedi depends on his price. He’s decent and if we move on we sacrifice continuity.
– Hollister… based upon his performance yes but the Rams effectively negated him. Does he help the rushing attack?
– John Ross was a great Husky but I don’t think we need another fragile player unless Cincy wants to drop him in our lap for a 3rd round pick.
– The draft depends on what they do in free agency combined with which players drop. If a player with a true first round grade drop to the Hawks you take him regardless of position.
– Resigning Carson became more of a priority after Penny’s injury.
– Brown just had his worst year. Iupati is a strong wind away from the IR. Hunt isn’t the answer. Britt will be coming back from an ACL and he’s pricy. Fluker is an injury risk every game. We need Ifedi unless he prices us out of the market.
Iupati is the worst player on the OL
Mike Davis still a FA
I think he was picked up by the panthers
It’s fun to play GM isn’t it?
I like the draft priority you have, but priorities can shift quickly depending on the market for Reed, Ifedi, and Fant. Carson isn’t a free agent so you can scratch that one off.
Position upgrades include: WR, EDGE, and TE.
Whether they choose to pay their top FA or let walk for comp picks will dictate the draft priority and potentially bumping DT or OT to the top. I have heavy doubt they’ll leave themselves needing an OT in R1 of the draft.
Yeah, it’s fun. I’m just not that good at it. 🙂
I was just trying to write down how I was thinking about the off-season, with a few quirky ideas.
I thought Carson was a FA? Guess I was wrong. I just thought about resigning Clowney (for the obvious reason), and Iupati, Fant, and Hollister because they all serve purposes and could probably get done without too much difficulty. Nail down what you can ASAP before dealing with the harder stuff.
It will be a great off-season to watch play out.
Shoot, meant as reply to Paul.
We won’t and shouldn’t want OBJ. It would be exactly like the Jimmy Graham trade. This is a running team that takes shots deep down the field. We have Lockett and Metcalf already. Do we really want a crybaby and drama queen on this team? He just doesn’t fit personality wise and I couldn’t imagine the outcry for fans for this team to pass the ball more when he has 3 catches for 40 yards through 3 games.
1. I really don’t get the Graham comparison.
2. OBJ is a lot of things but I don’t see a cry baby.
I live in NY, OBJ is a “cry baby”…in plenty of games the Giants losses when he has great numbers he was positive and happy after the game but when the team won and he wasn’t the focus of the offense he would take shots at the coaches and QB…drama follows this guy..heck of a talent but a malcontent. In an offense like Seattle’s that is a high volume run team I just don’t see the fit.
Now, to keep him from SF, then that’s a different story all together.
And NYG were awful. Poorly run, coached, terrible FO.
He wants to win. I’d be frustrated too.
But when the Giants won and went to the playoffs he as still a distraction. Boat trip during playoff week and then drops against GB…it was a firestorm here in NY..
Everyone seems to forget Jimmy got one of the worst injuries possible in football in his first season as a Seahawk, right as he was supposed to get going. There is a lot of athletes that never recovered from that injury. Yet you somehow compare him to OBJ.. makes no sense to me.
May want to check your reading comprehension as to why I compared him to him. The big one being the outcry from fans when Jimmy Graham wasn’t dropping 100 yards games every week and that the Hawks got this hot rod but doesn’t know how to use it properly. I just see the fans getting spun up if OBJ isn’t getting a TD and 100 yards receiving every game. Our skill position players are pretty good I think. I’d rather just roll with Lockett, Metcalf, and Gordon.
I think K.J. is aging and his speed is big liability in pass coverage. Would much rather this team trade up in the first for an amazing DT or trade back into the second and get Willie Gay to replace K.J. This team is so very close to having a Super Bowl roster. We’ve never had a true game wrecker on the interior and i couldn’t imagine this defense if we had one. We need to get bigger faster and stronger on defense. Going into this year I honestly expected 9-7 or 8-8. I just don’t think it would be right after it seemed like we went ages without having a lot of draft picks to bolster this team. I really expect us to be a Super Bowl contender next year. This year I just don’t see it but with Russell you always have a chance.
Cody Barton seems really good. I think he could easily slip in for KJ
Who are some DE trade candidates for our first? Any chance you see Joey bosa possibly available?
Highly doubt it
Joey Bosa is an option worth exploring. The Chicago Bears traded a 2019 1st, 2020 1st, 2020 3rd and 2019 6th rd picks to the Raiders for Khalil Mack. Then they signed Khalil to a 6y extension for $141m with $90m guaranteed.
Joey Bosa is only 24 years old and is currently under contract for 2020 on his fifth year option. He has the type of talent that is worth pushing all your chips in to pursue. Based on current team needs, the Khalil Mack trade and contract framework seems an acceptable risk.
1. Trade for J. Bosa (2020 1st, 2021 1st, 2020 3rd, 2021 6th) and extend contract
2. Resign Clowney or Reed, but not both.
3. Hawks would still have 8 picks in 2020 draft.
Rob, I think this concept is worth digging into a little deeper and would love to read an in depth article on the DE trade possibilities. I feel pass rushing DE is ten times the need that WR is for this offseason, and only enhanced by the options available in the upcoming draft.
I don’t see Bosa on the same level as Mack personally, but maybe I’m wrong. I’d give up maybe this years first and next first, but no more. I mean how much would it take to move up and get Chase young? Same or a lot more? Would prefer moving up to get young if the draft Capital we give up is close to the same.
Think chargers may be interested as they have to replace Rivers, and need ammo to move up to do so.
Why would LA trade Bosa?
We all know why Oakland and Mack parted. They’d run out of cash money.
Touting Bosa for trade is all well and good but for what reasonable reason would LA even remotely consider doing that deal? He’s their best player at a time when they’re struggling to make any noise in their new city.
I still think that was an incredibly expensive gamble. They got one honeymoon season, Matt Nagy was COY, the Bear defensive legacy was restored, lots of press. And then they got a FG try tipped and double-doinked and that ended their season.
Now they’re back to earth as a .500 team and Mack isn’t getting near the press. Trubisky has as many stinkers as good games. They’re tight against the cap next year with no room to add talent in free agency and no young cheap draft picks coming online to fill the void.
In 2021 they have 20 contracted players soaking up $136m of cap room, which doesn’t include a QB (they can exercise Trubisky’s 5th year option). So they need to get 31 players for ~$80m and STILL have no top young draft picks to fill in the gaps between all those expensive contracts.
I just don’t see the Hawks going down a similar road.
I criticized the trade because I questioned Trubisky’s talent, ability to take the offense to the next level. IMO, you only take that shot if you have your ducks in a row.
I’d like to see the Seahawks add weapons in free agency, but would understand a trade for Ol’ Dirty Bastard because he makes that offense elite, they have the picks and cap space to fix the other issues.
The more I look at our needs and what’s likely to be available in free agency the more nervous I get about our offensive line.
– Brown just had his worst year and is obviously aging.
– Iupait has had a good year but his career was almost over due to injuries when we signed him. Do we really want to press our luck?
– Hunt isn’t a starter.
– Britt is coming back from an ACL and he’s pricey.
– Fluker is in the ‘who knows’ category when it comes to availability on game by game basis.
– There’s a good chance Ifedi gets priced out of our reach.
– Jamarco Jones lack of atleticism was exposed by Baltimore.
– Phil Haynes hasn’t played.
– Pocic isn’t the power blocking type of player that fit’s our system.
I’ve really warmed to the idea that a big, mauling center would really boots our attack (Phil Haynes?).
That said, if a top flight left tackle became available in the draft I’d grab that dude in a heartbeat.
I am constantly baffled why some fans talk in this way about the OL.
Me too. Schotty has made the OL solid and the team is 10-3! With Lockett, a rookie WR, and some third tier ball catchers. It’s been a good season and it’s not done.
Agreed.
It’s not a great OL, but the run game works, and I would say over half the sacks are on Russ. He won’t get rid of the ball or throw it away.
Not sure what are you referring to, but Iupati is close to awful. Fluker is up and down. Hunt is solid. Not the best, but I wouldn’t mind him. Brown is good. Ifedi is OK. Pocic got better and Jones is pretty good.
I’d love some OL addition but not exactly for now in place of those guys. For 2-4 years for now. Until then they can learn and be mainly backups
Iupati has been a lot better than you’re suggesting
Utah State QB Jordan Love is foregoing his Senior year of eligibility and to go to the NFL.
3 cheers for……well, not a whole lot.
Personally am hyped for the Spencer Rattler era, this kid gonna be good.
Is that seriously his name? That is awesome.
Spencer Rattler
He’s the man who’s name you’d loooove to toooouch
But you mustn’t tooooouch
His name sounds good in your ear
But when you say it you mustn’t fear
Cause his name can be said by anyoooone!
https://youtu.be/BSVms6cT9nk
Adding a talent of OBJ’s caliber to your team makes every NFL drool but I’m not sure it is the best direction for us.
1. Having a top paid QB at his prime should mean he can do more with a little less. (I.E. – Keep the QB + WRs cap cost reasonable)
2. DK is having a great rookie season and his 2nd year growth will be effected by two hungry targets ahead of him (Locket and OBJ).
3. With the quality of the WRs draft class, the draft capital you’ll need to pry OBJ from the browns could be used for a quality 3rd receiver with 4 years of rookie contract.
4. The OBJ cap cost could bring a TE + G or a good pass rusher helping a run first team more.
5. Yes, the Seahawks can handle big names and personalities but if we learned anything from this crazy season its the value of chemistry and togetherness. Bringing a “me first” talent may risk it. see – https://sports.mynorthwest.com/734289/seahawks-lockett-loss-rams-work-out-our-favor/
So, while it gets your heart beating faster, I’ll pass on that one.
Russell shouldn’t have to do more with less.
If the best rookies are off the board, which is possible, then that’s not an option.
I could easily see the Hawks rolling into 2020 with
Lockett
DK
Dissly
Ursua
and some combination of
Turner (ERFA)
Moore (RFA)
Hollister (RFA)
Willson (UFA)
Gordon (UFA)
All back on friendly deals
And at least one and maybe two of:
And a draft pick used on Hunter Bryant or traded for Howard
Draft pick used on top WR prospect
A Jaron Brown type FA signing
That skates the middle ground between “less” and the potential expense in draft capital and cap $ it would take to get OBJ.
But again, that all depends on a WR being available when they pick.
I’ll keep saying — the good ones will rise in this class.
It’s imperative the Seahawks help Wilson. I don’t think this plan does that unless they believe Hunter Bryant is outstanding or they can actually pull off a deal for Howard (which TB were unwilling to consider before the deadline).
Making such a big trade based on the assumption that no good WR will be available late first round or on day two does not sound right to me.
RW will benefit from an improved DK on his 2nd year and Locket as his 1-2 targets. A quality WR3 would be great to have and if everything else works great during FA, it may even justify trading up in the first for one.
I think the help RW would benefit most from is enhanced pass protection and TE talent to mitigate the Dissly injury risk.
Bottom line, looking from a team perspective for a PC led team, if you are going to invest 14M plus a first round pick, what would be the best return on that investment?
I honestly can’t see WR as the immediate answer. If we are one key player away from a SB, you can get Callais Campball for that money and a 2nd-3rd round pick.
It wouldn’t be an assumption. By the combine all teams have a rough idea where certain prospects will go. Even on this blog we’ve consistently and accurately projected risers based on tape/profile. If the three receivers we’ve keyed in on (Reagor, Ruggs, Hamler) run as well as I think they will, they won’t last to the late first round. They just won’t. That wouldn’t be an assumption. Technically gifted, consistent, 4.2/4.3 runners with no character flaws and outstanding potential go very early in the draft.
I’m surprised people keep misunderstanding the scenario here. Adding a receiver has never been suggested as the definitive solution. The pass rush is the top need. But it’s not the only need and an entire off season is never about addressing one issue. Wilson clearly needs more and is the focal point of the team. They can and will add to both the rush and receiver and/or tight end at some stage in this off season. How will they go about it? Well there are a variety of options.
Don’t you think Seattle has given RW weapons? I think Lockett (prior to injury/flu), DK (so much upside), and Gordon (resigned for cheaper and wants to stay) are a very good trio of WR’s? That’s better than most teams…a healthy Dissly of another move at TE helps too…throw in Carson and Penny returning next season and Seattle’s skilll positions are really a position of strength. Seattle pride RW to be elite and he is proving to be, which means he has the ability to elevate the receivers the team puts around him..same for OL but the metrics there are still poor in pass pro..RW’s eliteness should allow Seattle to pour more resources into the DL when they have three really good wideouts.
A Calias, DE (Jacksonville), or Fowler with Clowney, and possibly Reed could make Seattle legit contenders in an offset of OBJ’s contract…
There’s a difference between some weapons and no weapons. He has Lockett and Metcalf as guaranteed options that he can trust for 2020. That is nowhere near enough. You have to back your franchise QB or you end up like GB and NE.
But Gordon has expressed a desire to return to Seattle and would be cheaper than OBJ…would you still rather OBJ at 14mil over Gordon at half the price?
I totally agree with you Rob that would be a fascinating prospect! Going into the same direction, enjoy the “hawks go all in for 2020 offseason plan”.
Resign (cap hit): DE Clowney (20), Fant and Ifedi (20)
Trade for: WR Beckham (16), NCB Coleman (9), TE Howard (3)
FA sign: DE Fowler (15)
—
FA loss: Reed
Cap cuts: C Britt (8.8), LB Wright (6), TE Dickson (3.3)
—
Picks lost, for trades: 1&3 (Beckham), 2 (Howard), 3 (Coleman)
Picks remaining: 2,4,4 (speed DE, DT, OL/RB?) and depth the rest (CB, LB, OL, RB)
Base lineup of Beckham/Lockett/DK/Dissly/Carson? Scary.
Did I hear some play action please? Beckham/Lockett/Dissly/Howard. Holly cow.
Passrush of Clowney, Fowler, Green and Ford? Yes please.
Pass coverage of Griffin/Flowers/Coleman/Diggs/Blair? Turnover incoming?
I love the idea of the Hawks going all-in, but I think in that scenario you gotta re-sign Reed, who is the best interior pass-rusher they have. (Ford is a great run-stopper, but hasn’t been much of a threat to QBs imo.) I also think if KJ stays healthy you should keep him, he’s still a valuable coverage LB. I agree Fowler would be a great add though, even if he costs a bit more than 15
You won’t get Clowney for 20 (more like 22-23). And Fant will likely cost 9-10 mil, Ifedi a lot more (13-15). Fowler I think would also cost more.
And who’d play DT? I think Woods also FA. We need a good interior guy, those inside runs kill us.
Fant will NOT cost 9-10m. And Ifedi won’t cost 13-15m either.
OBJ – I like the thought but somehow sounds counterintuitive given the strength of the draft at WR
Yes some WRs may be gone but others may be push to R2 in our favor.
I believe will be the higher priorities are at DL/pass rush & possible turnover/upgrades on OL.
What a possible trade or FA signing does bring is optionality. We’ve seen time and again how PCJS approach the draft and free agency, choosing players, resigning and then adjusting their FA / trade targets accordingly.
Receivers who run in the 4.2’s and 4.3’s like I listed above won’t get pushed down.
WR might not be the highest off-season priority but we’re talking about one pick in isolation. The R1 pick doesn’t have to address the biggest need.
Good points but It’s a pick plus 14apy that could be spent in FA on a pass rusher
I’m not saying no, and just point out like as you are, there is more than one way to address our needs
My issue with this is not the idea of upgrading our WR (Needed) or signing OBJ (great reclamation project with crazy upside.) But am wondering if we can really afford it given all of our needs. Definitely have to resign Clowney plus another really expensive lineman to finally feel okay about our Dline. Need a TE. Need to resign at least one o-linemen. Need a RB? Uncertainly at LB besides Wagner (KJ has not looked so hot, questions about Kendricks legal case). Slot corner is definitely a high priority and can be expensive… I am just wondering where getting another threat at WR is showcasing the requisite QB skills to be successful.
Some of these issues can be filled via the draft of course (and they have two R2 picks). They will have a fair bit to spend but would have to be calculated.
Normally I am all for these high risk- high reward type signings or trade you propose, Rob. However, I absolutely hate the idea of this one.
Athletically, I think its a magical fit. The type of game he brings marries exceptionally well with what the Hawks want to do in the passing game.
Mentally….I just don’t think its worth it. The watch thing, the sideline crap in NY with the kicking net….all of it. I just think its too much, the guy has some serious screws loose and its not worth the cap space or gamble. I mean, its a flippin watch….why are you making a big deal of this? Is it just for the attention? Go to Cleveland and realize your coverage isn’t as big as in NY so you gotta do something to bring focus back on yourself?
I just don’t want that kind of distraction around the team.
It’s a fair position to take on OBJ. Part of me wonders if the issues in NY and Cleveland are in part because he’s a competitor playing on two hopeless, lousy teams.
On one hand I’d say absolutely could be that. On the other I’d say nobody else has these kind of break down/intereactions/issues…whatever you want to call them.
True character comes out when you are losing. Its easy to be fun and great when you are winning.
As annoying as I’m sure everyone on the team finds it sometimes (cause honestly, it can be a bit much)…it is really nice that when we’re down double-digits, and captain positive RW3 is still out there shouting “lets go guys, time to believe, gotta believe to succeed, why not us, lets go, we’re going out there and giving all we got”… and not kicking inanimate objects.
OBJ is a me first player. Before the season started he was saying NYG sent him to Cleveland to die. The watch, the cleats, the injury excuse, the ‘come get me’. This type of behavior is what JS/PC have been trying to avoid since the reset.
I dont want that distraction either.
I love the idea….but I still can’t get past this team having one of the worst pass rushes in all the sport. I don’t think Wilson does well with needy receivers. He would target the water boy 5 times a game if that was the favorable matchup. Meanwhile OBJ would be fuming silently …..waiting to blow.
Adding OBJ is definitely fun to debate, I’ve read a bunch of good reasons for and a bunch against trading for this supremely talented but highly combustible player.
Making this type of trade probably comes down to whether or not this is the best way to improve the team, or not. We all know the Hawks need more pass rush, but what if there’s no good trade options available? And we already know the draft options are slim and unproven at the pro level. Prior to the trade deadline this year Rob was making the case for adding more offensive talent, even though the defense was the unit struggling most.
It might still be a viable path this offseason; to add more weapons (OBJ trade, another TE via draft of FA, another RB option as well) and more offensive line talent (upgrade 1-2 spots on the line). We still have an excellent QB in his prime so the offense should be dynamic.
John won’t completely ignore the defense either. He will find some type of defensive line upgrade opposite a re-signed Clowney and he’ll upgrade the nickel spot as well.
This is just another way to build an extremely competitive team. Gonna be fun to follow it and see how John and Pete choose to go.
Wonder how much it’d cost to repaint the orange Rolls Royce blue.
Maybe $399 from Maaco?
OBJ is one hell of a talent, and it would be awesome to see him have a Randy Moss type second or third act in the NFL. He’s not my type of Wr, I’ve always loved those hyper physical player that make a statement every play that they are just bullies and you can’t stop them. Steve Smith is probably my favorite of all time, but certainly Bolden, Tate, Hines Ward are way up there and contribute to the running game as much as the passing game. Dk provides a good bit of that, but if we are really being honest he’s no number 1 Wr, or even a solid 2, but as a third to four option has value. Paul Richardson was let walk in free agency partially for the financial side, but also because he was worthless as a blocker in the run game. I doubt OBJ fits this run first team, although the thought of Lockett being a number 2 and Gordon or DK being a number three and four improves us at 3-4 positions with one addition. So a first round pick to improve every Wr the entire way down the depth chart has merit, and is something you simply can’t get out of a first round pick year one.
I haven’t been disappointed in the effort to improve the offense line in past off season and aren’t running them down now, but do feel it’s something that the are going to have to continue to spend draft capital on, as they are getting quite old, and the amount of time Russel has to survey the field is comically bad. Every single game Wilson is under more pressure than the opposing QB, and that trend needs the be fixed to be a tier 1 team, whether you address that on the offense line, d line or both.
B Wagner has become a liability in the passing game, I wonder of a LB/safety high breed might fit the bill as a replacement for Kendrick, since eventually he will be sentenced and not available to the team.
Have to agree…I think adding a top tier tight end (even if Dissly comes back healthy) is a bigger priority than somebody like OBJ. Let’s use that $15 million APY somewhere else…
So which top tier TE?
I haven’t got an issue with adding a top TE but if that player isn’t available and OBJ is, then it isn’t one or the other.
Austin Hooper? Not sure if he is top tier or not but he is as close as there is available. He most likely wont get out of Atlanta though?
OJ Howard is a free agent in 2021…G Kittle & T Kelce in 2022…I’d rather wait for someone like that than spend $45 million on OBJ over the next three years.
OBJ’s career reminds me a bit of John Jefferson (SD/GB) back in the 70’s 80’s..fabulous production (and highlight reel catches) his first three years in the league..then he hit his late 20’s…and it fell off the cliff…out of the league by 30.
Not saying OBJ will be out of the league by 30…but his last pro bowl was three years ago..and his catch rate is down to nearly 50%.
So what if you wait for them and then they sign new deals?
You can’t wait until 2021 to help your QB.
Also, OBJ has had old Eli and Baker Mayfield as QB. In Seattle, he gets Russ.
I guess I don’t put a premium on high profile veteran wide receivers like you do Rob. If you look at the depth charts of teams around the league (even playoff contenders)..you’re more likely to see undrafted free agents (or late round draft picks) starting for teams (WR position) than high priced vets (or even first/second round draft picks).
I think it’s because WR’s get so few targets in a game..it’s really hard for them to influence the overall W/L record much. There just aren’t that many receivers in the league that are so much better than their hypothetical replacements that they command top dollar….jmo
I haven’t said anything about putting a premium in high profile veteran wide receivers. I simply noted, not unfairly, that a plan to wait until 2021 or 2022 to help Russell Wilson out — on the off chance star tight ends even make it to free agency (they probably won’t) — isn’t much of a plan. Neither is $45m over three years even that much for OBJ. As noted in the piece, you’d be getting him for the 14th biggest receiver salary in the league — and that’s before players like Amari Cooper get paid.
As for you’re more likely to see UDFA’s starting than high price vets at receiver — well sure. There aren’t many highly paid veteran receivers in the league. The ones who are good get paid. Some who aren’t good also get paid from time to time, but not often. I’m not sure what difference this makes to OBJ and Seattle. Are you suggesting that a good plan to properly support Wilson would be to hope some undrafted or cheap WR’s are enough to max out his peak years? And if so, why would that incredible gamble be preferable vs a reasonable deal for OBJ?
And I’d argue receivers heavily influence W/L record. Just ask Philly.
Actually Philly kind of supports my argument I think (don’t invest too much $ or draft capital) in the WR position. They started the year with Alshon Jeffrey (high profile vet), N Agholor (1st rd pick), DeSean Jackson (high profile vet) and JJ Arcia-Whiteside (2nd rd draft pick)…a great crew on paper…and look what happened.
Buffalo on the other hand…are starting two guys who were originally UDFA’s and are now 10-3..(although C Beasley proved himself a bit at Dallas and got a mid-level FA contract ($6 million APY from the Bills)…
I feel like that ignores a lot of context in terms of both Philly (they also invested a lot in Zach Ertz–he’s helped) and especially Buffalo (sadly for our records, we don’t play in the AFC East, so the competition level is a little different–imagine trading LA for Miami or the Jets).
I know everyone is talking about Dante Fowler but I just dont see it. The Seahawks just dont give out big contracts to outside free agents. Personally I like that stradegy. Yeah they did it for Sidney Rice and Zach Miller but that was forever ago. The Harvin contract was a one off even though that was technically via trade. Get the players in your system first then see first hand if they are worth the big contract. Date before you marry.
But they did give big contracts to Sidney Rice and Zach Miller in 2011 and they did give Percy Harvin a huge extension immediately after trading for him. They were limited in their ability to give out contracts to outside FA’s between 2013-2019 because they’d used all their money to retain their stars and then, most recently, had to reorganise their cap situation.
For the first time in years they have money to spend.
They do have the money to spend but I just dont see them doing it. To me it just very rarely works. I see teams are starting to get this a little more. Look at the Colts, they all the money to spend in the world and didnt, the Steelers and Ravens for the most part both do it this way as well. Im not saying not to, I just dont think they will.
I bet the Colts spend next off-season. They’re 6-7 and going nowhere.
The Ravens literally just paid an outside FA — Earl Thomas — a huge salary this year.
I know the Ravens spent big on an outside FA, that is why I said “for the most part”. The best teams and consistent teams in the league dont spend big in the first wave of free agency. Earl lasted a long time and then they went for it. You are going to have to get Fowler early in free agency. Once again there is no right and wrong, its just opinion.
OBJ for a Rd 1 and maybe some kind of late rounder swap?
I’d make that trade.
The ONLY thing that gives me pause.. is 2013. The Percy Harvin Trade… We could have drafted Deandre Hopkins instead.
An OBJ trade has potential to work out that way, considering this draft class.
That said- you can’t let the past haunt you and inhibit your current decisions. I’d make that trade.
Wow, Saints lose Davenport and likely Rankins too for the season. Huge blow.
I won’t be surprised if NFC Wild Card makes a run to the Super Bowl. If I’m the Seahawks / Packers, I’m spooked by the Rams / Vikings in the rear view. Critical for the Hawks to win 2 of 3.
AJ Green will be a free agent, probably looking for a contender, and maybe looking for a prove-it contract to show he’s back from injury. He might prefer a higher-volume passing team, but if he’s excited about playing with RW, he probably provides similar value to OBJ at a similar or lesser price and with no draft pick required.
I’d roll the dice on a 2-3 year deal for Green, depending on how much coin he wants. When he’s healthy he is clearly a WR1 with very few weaknesses in his game.
Actually like this option a lot more than trading for OBJ!
I think if Cincy intended to let Green leave they would’ve considered trading him.
Franchise tag seems likely.
I like the idea of aggressively pursuing another receiver, but I really don’t think OBJ is a guy I’d want on this team. I think the comparison to Marshawn is interesting, but to me Beckham is too much of a nightmare. He’s one of the best WRs on the planet, theres no doubt, but I don’t think he cares about winning. I remember watching him when the Giants made the playoffs a few years back and thinking it was one of the worst performances I’d seen by a WR. That game was an opportunity for him to step up and lead his team to victory, and he looked like he didn’t even care.
Cleveland was another opportunity for him to change a culture with his ability, but he’s dropped the ball. Personally, I wouldn’t give anything earlier than a rd 4 for him (which would be so absurd it will never happen) just because I don’t think he will add the piece missing to this team.
If I’m trading for a Browns receiver, I’d take a long hard look at Landry instead. He’s a better leader, been consistently good for years, and has helped elevate his teams in the past. He has the kind of fire Angry Doug or Steve Smith had that can galvanize a young core. He’s the closest thing you can get to a BAMF at WR, and Beckham is not. I don’t think we trade for either, but you never know with Schneider, and I trust the GM to put together a great team.
Is OBJ really that much of a nightmare?
Or is the real nightmare two badly run organisations with two poor QB’s?
There’s no doubt both organizations are horribly run/coached, but I think there’s some validity to the question of whether or not Beckham loves football, let alone winning. I don’t see a fire in his play style that this team is missing. He’s a fantastic talent and arguably the best receiver in the NFL, don’t get me wrong. My perception of him is just that he’s more interested in being a star than a champion.
With the right QB and coach could he be? Maybe, but that’s conjecture (one which admittedly Pete and Russ will undoubtedly believe is a yes). I just see more Jimmy Graham in him than I do a Michael Thomas type.
I see plenty of fire. I don’t think anyone can label OBJ as passive. I see a fantastic competitor.
The watch thing and the cleats is not really any different than Marshawn wearing the wrong colour socks and getting a fine back in the day. It’s hardly indicative of a loose cannon, out of control diva.
And I don’t really understand the Jimmy Graham talk either. How is that a comp?
That’s fair enough, I can definitely agree he’s not passive. Like I said, I just don’t see that fire directed towards winning. In the one year he made the playoffs, he had a ton of drops in that wildcard game. It’s one game, but it has always irked me and made me question his desire to win the big one.
The watch thing is dumb but doesn’t bother me. Its actually a bit of a plus to me in that its his form of personal expression and swagger (similar to Marshawn’s socks).
The Graham comparison has nothing to do with play style, just more to do with when he shines. Watching 9ers vs Saints, both Kittle and Thomas excelled when the game was on the line. Kittle wouldn’t let anyone take him to the ground, Thomas just kept getting open. Both players were the difference for their offenses on their final drives (and Drew Brees of course). Graham to me was always the opposite of that. He excelled when it didn’t matter, especially on the Seahawks. Even when he was on the Saints, in the biggest games I didn’t worry about him. I still remember the way he got spanked by Earl in 2013. He kept dropping the ball on 3rd downs because he was more afraid of the hit than losing. I think Beckham is more physical, but I don’t think he’s the type of guy that shines in the toughest moments.
OBJ is a great competitor I think. The attitude stuff for me stems back to last season with the giants. When he was smacking around the kicker net and needed a rookie Saquon Barkley to calm him down after the giants scored a touchdown because it didn’t go to him.
It takes me back to Richard Sherman’s temper tantrums on the sidelines. I hated that and I reluctant to add another guy who is gonna throw fits and cuss out coaches on the sideline. I prefer the style of guys like Russell Wilson or J Reed or even Bradley Mcdougald (if you watch the interactions between players on the sideline you know what I’m talking about). I want DOGS who rally the men around them when things aren’t going great.
If available, I’d rather target E. Sanders or AJ Green. No distraction + positive influence on Lockett, Metcalf, others.
Also both older, potentially more expensive, one with significant recent injury history and OBJ might be less ‘dramatic’ on a proper team.
True, but I’m choosing between E. Sanders / AJ Green on an incentive-laden, short term deal and OBJ, his salary, PLUS what it takes to get him (at least a 1st).
Sanders and Green are not signing incentive-laden short term deals. Both will get paid if they hit the market (and they won’t).
What do you think they get? $15m? $20m? I’m thinking more like $12.5m + incentives on 2-3 year deals. I’m probably wrong and underestimating these contracts.
Cincy will pay Green the franchise tag amount whatever that is. Sanders will get a handsome 2-3 year deal.
OK, you’ve convinced me. Hard pass on all three, 🙂
It’s a decent WR class, I’d prefer we used most of our cap resigning our guys and finding a starter or two for the DL.
Draft a DL, TE, WR early depending on how the draft falls
I understand the thought for going for OBJ. Though I don’t become enamored with players the same I get the appeal of his talent. But headache players have rarely helped teams win. Helped them grab headlines, yes. Win not as much.
I think we have the young talent at TE and WR and need to let them develop. Adding young explosive talent in round two of the draft for a talented WR to push the young guys we have would be great.
Another option I think is some vets that are either cut or traded. I can imagine Cleveland wanting a first and maybe more. Is there another talent we could look into that might be open to joining a team that’s like this?
The Harvin and Jimmy trades should be used as info. Were we better after those trades?
“Though I don’t become enamored with players the same I get the appeal of his talent”
Who’s enamoured??
When has writing one solitary article proposing a scenario equated to being enamoured with a player?
I glanced at the top WRs by APY and only a couple stood out to me that play on a Super Bowl contender.
I’m not arguing for or against a trade for OBJ, but paying big money for WR doesn’t appear to have worked out for consistent playoff success for most teams.
And the Eagles won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles and the Broncos with Peyton Manning essentially acting as a hand-off specialist. Does that go to show you don’t need a top quality QB?
You can make any argument for any style of team building based on previous Super Bowl winners.
But I’m not talking about past winners, or quarterbacks- I’m talking about WR on SB contenders this year, teams that are performing well, high probability of getting to the Super Bowl via 1st round bye.
I include: Ravens, 49ers, Saints, Patriots, Chiefs, Packers, and Seahawks.
Of the Top 10 WR by APY ($15MM and above) – 3 play for contenders- Michael Thomas (Saints), Tyreek Hill, and Sammy Watkins (both Chiefs)
Of the Top 20 WR by APY ($11MM and above) – 5 play for contenders- 3 mentioned above plus DeVante Adams (Packers) and Emmanuel Sanders (49ers)
Of the To 30 WR by APY ( $9MM and above)- 6 play for contenders- 5 mentioned above plus Tyler Lockett.
No Ravens, no Pats players on here. Chiefs are milking Mahomes rookie deal, and 49ers have a 1 year rental on Sanders.
I’m not going to disagree with the the point I think you’re trying to make in that every team works with their pieces to construct a Super Bowl team.
Hawks picking up OBJ contract would be a complete outlier in terms of cap allocation to top WRs among SB contenders. I’m not saying it can’t work for this team, but I’m also saying it doesn’t appear to be recipe for success for anyone else.
I misinterpreted the point but then if we’re looking at current SB contenders — the 49ers just spent a third round pick on a player who turns 33 in March and is out of contract in the off-season because they were absolutely desperate for WR help. I’m pretty sure they’d quite happily inherit a big WR contract to address their current greatest need. The Ravens just spent a R1 pick on a receiver. The Saints have paid Thomas a fortune. The Chiefs will pay Tyreek Hill a fortune. The Packers and Patriots are being criticised for their lack of weapons — a glaring weakness for both teams.
None of this is really a counter to highly paid WR’s for contenders. They’re all either paying a big name WR (Saints) making big moves to get a good WR (49ers), drafted a player in R1 (Ravens) or desperately need a WR (Pats, Packers).
I like OBJ, I’d like him better catching balls from Russ next to Lockett and Metcalf. I even like the deal if we get him for just our late R1.
I don’t like the cap allocation between QB and WR by adding him. It’s overweight to me, but that just my take. Rather see the money spent on protection and pass rush.
I realize the Saints are doing well with Thomas, but their next highest paid WR is Ginn at $3.7MM.
Not sure it’s fair to say they’re ‘only’ paying one elite WR contract though as a means for backing up this case. Plus they have money tied up across the roster in the same way we did circa 2014.
If the Patriots don’t make the SB this year, it will almost certainly be due to the lack of elite pass catching options.
those are compelling numbers to me…and not really surprising….and I’m expecting they’d look even worse if you expand it out to the top 12 teams (incl Buffalo etc.)
You’ve also got teams like the Vikings who lost their best receiver for the year (Thielen)..but are rolling right along. With a few exceptions…receivers are quite interchangeable in the NFL..
What is compelling about this?
All it proves is that teams like the Pats are suffering for their lack of WR talent and others, such as New Orleans, really benefit from having (and paying) Micheal Thomas.
Come on guys. It’s OK to simply say you’re not a fan of trading for Beckham Jr. We don’t need to try and argue the Vikings are A-OK without Adam Thielen. They aren’t. They need Thielen back and are a much better team with him.
Pats need Gronk back..they never paid top dollar for receivers as far as I can remember.
They paid Randy Moss and Gronk top dollar and traded a first round pick for Brandin Cooks not so long ago, plus spent a R1 pick on a receiver just this year. And if they don’t threaten in the playoffs this year, it’ll 100% be down to their lack of talent at WR.
I’ll say it again. If people don’t want to trade for OBJ, that’s fine. Don’t cook up justifications though. It’s unnecessary.
They acquired Moss towards the end of his career for a 4th round draft pick. Gronk was a generational TE..yeah pay him anything he wants..they are regretting the N’Keal Harry pick I’m sure at this point..
They’ve always skimped on WR’s Rob…that’s one of the benefits of having a HOF qb…
They also signed Moss to a three-year $27m contract in 2008 — a top dollar salary at the time. Heck — it’s only a million bucks short of Tyler Lockett’s current APY!
I’ll say it a third time. If people don’t want OBJ, that’s fine. But just say that. Don’t try and concoct an argument to try and make it seem like it shouldn’t happen.
yup..they got two good years out of Moss after that (age 31 and 32)
Belichik has been GM/coach for almost 20 years though..any other examples of him
investing in wide receivers??
(sorry to reply to my own comment..wasn’t seeing the reply button below your comment for some reason)
But you said they didn’t pay top dollar for receivers. I’ve given you an example. And they paid Gronk.
There’s nowhere else to go with this.
I’ll say it a final time. It’s fine to not want OBJ. Trying to create an argument from a red herring isn’t necessary.
Yeah, but none of them wear a $200K Richard Mille watch during games.
(Take care of the 303. I’m out, moving to the Land of Enchantment, Friday.)
Reply to Denver Hawker.
(Man, I have trouble navigating this site. My nonsense goes everywhere.)
Off topic; I have a thought about the —lack of a top EDGE pass rusher— being drafted in the 2019
draft. I would have thought that an EDGE rusher was more of a need and should have been targeted, much like today and the upcoming draft. I’ve convinced myself that PC/JS undervalued Maxx Crosby and felt he indeed was a Round 4/5-ish prospect (that happened to be valued somewhat higher by some other teams, like Oakland). I have to think the Seahawks may have targeted him in Round-4 at pick #120 and just got beat out by Oakland & Mike Mayock, who is a pretty good evaluator.
Last year, EDGE-Maxx Crosby was selected in the 4-th. round at pick #106 By Oakland. At the time of
the draft, Crosby was variously ranked as a late 4-th to early 6-th round prospect, I believe that the
Seahawks may have screwed up their draft board just a little, perhaps after the good trade up pick they used on WR-Metcalf, they were too excited & they felt they could still land Crosby in round 4 at
pick #120 (instead of ANOTHER WR-Jennings), I for one would much rather have drafted Crosby than
Barton at #88, or Jennings at #120 but, I suppose that the medias would call that another Seahawks
reach pick. I know that sounds like “revisionist” thinking, but I was a big Maxx Crosby fan & was very
disappointed they missed out on him. Was Crosby a real Seahawk target? Guess we’ll never know.
Crosby had excellent combine #’s, one of the best testers at the combine. Yes, Crosby was a small school guy and some may discount his college stats and he was also RAW, but his physical testing showed a lot of upside potential and he would have been a great pick, even at Round-3, pick #88.
I’m of the opinion that PC/JS just screwed up their evaluation of exactly when Crosby would go in the draft, they aren’t always 100% spot on in their projections.
See combine info, the graph says it all: https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/maxx-crosby
If the Seahawks had taken Crosby with their Round 3, pick 88, (their next pick was Round 4, pick #120), instead of taking Cody Barton, they would have a potential great EDGE rusher based on all of
the physical evidence plus Barton was likely available at #120. Unfortunately, we as fans aren’t privy
to all of the mental aspects of a prospects overall makeup, which may drop some players down on draft boards & we are unaware of it. BUT, Crosby was very much “a could of, should have”…..IMO.
Come on Jim. For starters you’re assuming they had any interest in Crosby. Secondly, every other team let him last to round four too. Crosby has been decent-ish this season but let’s not go OTT. Thirdly, if we’re going to criticise the Seahawks for not taking that one player among 254 taken — you could literally do that for every successful pick after your first one in every draft. It’s just hindsight.
We also don’t know what their board looked like. Maybe they were targeting another DE or two. Maybe they didn’t think the remaining DE’s were fits.
It was also pretty apparent they jumped in front of Indy to take Barton. Indy grabbing Okereke right after was not, IMO, coincidental.
I’m guessing the small school guys are the hardest to scout/evaluate..but that’s where you find the gems.
Yeah man I’ve thought the same thing, he would have been a good pick over Collier with our round 1 pick at this point. He was on my radar too but literally the whole league missed on him to an extent (everyone did). I try not to go down the rabbit hole of what if we picked this or that guy. As you said, revisionist history. I can’t help but fantasize a little though, Watt (woulda been a hawk if BobbyK was our GM haha) or Buddha Baker or Chris Jones (Trevor loved this guy) or more recently Terry Mclaurin would look damn good as hawks.
That being said I don’t think Crosby was a target. In one of PC/JS’s post draft press conferences they were asked about pass rushers and if the board fell how they expected it (or something like that). Schneider explained that the pass rushers came off the board fast and implied that the only pass rusher option after Collier was Chase Winovich for them.
While OBJ could be a game changer, the cost to get him, his salary and his disruptive attitude may not be worth the move. I’m puzzled by how little we use Gordon and feed other receivers like Moore and Turner. For next year a combination of healthy Lockett, Dissly, DK, Gordon plus a good rookie from the 2020 class plus Ursua/Turner/Moore should give us a pretty good receiving core. Spend the money on DL, OL and backup TE since we only may have Hollister to backup Dissly.
yeah..maybe the way to think about it is would you rather have $15 million to spend on free agents (including our own guys..Clowney, Reed, Ifedi, etc) plus a first round pick in the 2020 draft ..or a 28 year old OBJ..4 years removed from anything resembling a decent season in the NFL.
Last year he literally had a better season than any year of Tyler Lockett and it matched Doug Baldwin’s most productive yardage seasons. He can/will top that yardage this year. That’s with old Eli and bad Baker throwing the ball.
The conversation in relation to this piece has been maddening.
Do you think he will be happy with 4-5 targets a game knowing we still have Lockett, Dissly and DK on the roster? Knowing this not an offense that throws 30-40 times a game.
Winning fixes a lot. And winning is something OBJ hasn’t done a whole lot of. I suspect his targets wouldn’t be an issue.
And RW Averaging 32.2 attempts per game this season.. so .. yeah. We throw it 30-40 times a game on average.
Shoot RW has over 40 attempts in 3 games this season. So 23% of the time the seahawks are a team that throws 40-50 times a game.
True. Winning will fix all ill. And we have been throwing a ton. But that’s not Pete’s winning formula (to throw 30+ times a game).
Anyways, if we can afford to fix the DL and OL and pay OBJ, go for it.
They throw a lot more these days and I think he’ll be more than happy playing on a winning team.
Cost —- likely a R1 pick and people keep saying Seattle aren’t good with those.
Salary —- 14th highest WR salary and will be lower when others get paid in the off season.
Disruptive attitude —- what exactly has he disrupted?
“A good rookie” might not be available in the draft.
Feel like all these points were in the article.
Cost – you’re right about the success with our #1 picks. I’ve thought the same that we should either trade them or down.
Salary – yes, reasonable for the talent
Attitude – IMHO he doesn’t come across as a team player and his in game theatrics (wrestling with the kicking net) are many
Rookie – yes, they are just rookies until proven otherwise
The point I tried to make was that the receiving core of Lockett, Gordon, DK, Dissly and one of the others would be pretty good. But the DL and OL have been a black hole. So while OBJ is a talented receiver on a reasonable contract, could the $15M be better spent elsewhere? Unless we could do both and shore up the DL/OL and get him.
The OL hasn’t been a black hole.
You’re right. OL hasn’t been a black hole. They are 16 and 24 in run and pas blocking according to Football Outsiders. Next year is however a bit fluid. Ifedi is a FA, Britt coming back from a bad injury with high CAP number, Brown getting older, Iupati may be a one year signing. So lots to think about past this year.
If it is worth a 1st round pick to get OBJ, how far could we move up to get a good rookie WR for the same price?
Depends where they’re expected to go but it would be more expensive to trade up plus it’s an unknown commodity.
I like that Rob has poked the bear with you guys/gals.
The possibility of a trade of the 1st round draft pick needs to be considered, even if the actual player turns out not to be OBJ. I actually think Seattle might trade back slightly for a few more 2nd/3rd round picks if possible… a top shelf TE or DE or OG might be the only way they could be tempted to part with a 1st round pick. I believe they will restock the WR depth on the team, but a cost controlled 2nd or 3rd round pick during the 2020 draft is far more likely.
I definitely see both sides of it here, we spent considerable draft capital last year on Wr, and that OBJ is a generational talent. I might be in the minority that see Josh Gordon, as someone to expect a breakout year from, but when he’s on, he’s every bit the Wr that Beckham is. I’d rather drop a 1st round pick on an edge player, or offensive lineman but wouldn’t lose my mind over a trade for Beckham at all. Injuries are the only reason Te has came up as an area of need at all, and I personally think gems are found in later rounds in every draft at that position, so not thrilled by the idea of trading a first for a TE, drafting possibly with the rookie contract.
PS, Baker Mayfield might be having a down year, but he’s a really good QB with a horrible offensive line, kind of like Wilson for the last four weeks.
Anyone here seen much of Syracuse EDGE Alton Robinson and have any feelings on him? He had a better 2018 season stats wise than 2019 & the Orange were a better team overall. Most of his ‘wins’ were getting around the OT & more or less untouched so I can’t say whether he has much in the way of moves in the full 5 minutes of tape that I watched. Decent size though and flashes a burst.
Yes. I did a quick profile of him a couple months ago:
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/trying-to-find-solutions-in-the-bamf-department#comment-451454
I figured the A Team was on it, thanks. He looks like a guy they could work with as a day 3 developmental project.
Kyler Fackrell is scheduled to be an UFA in 2020. With Green Bay having signed Smith & Smith his snap counts have diminished somewhat. Dude played like a demon with his hair on fire against us in 2018 with 3 sacks on his way to 10.5 that season. Sitting at 1 sack & 10 QB hits in 2019. Putting him on the FA watch list for Seattle with that pass rush ability. Relatively high age for a 2nd contract guy having turned 28 in November. Whatevs though, we could use the help.
Pass rush ability? dude has 16 career sacks. Jefferson brings more pass rush than he does. I’m just not sure how he would actually help us.
Fackrell had as many sacks last year as Demarcus Lawrence, Calais Campbell, Fletcher Cox & our own Jarran Reed. It’s the trend in his career that is interesting. He took off in year 3 and in year 4 he is behind the Smiths on the depth chart. He had as many sacks in one game vs Seattle as Jefferson has ever had in an entire season.
Can I say for sure that he would help us? I don’t have that crystal ball. What I do see is a guy that the blog had significant interest in prior to his draft who has demonstrated a talent that we are in dire need of and has now become seemingly expendable on his current team. He might be a good value signing as a base down linebacker who rushes on passing downs. That’s where I see his fit.
I think it is an easy decsion really if you can get a guy like OBJ at his age then you go ahead and make that move. He is a bit of drama queen but mostly he seems like a guy who wants to win. I think he might be a great fit with the Hawks and ou would think he would jump at a chance to play with a QB like Russ.
I have no idea of the Browns would trade him but I think you make that call if you are JS. Like everything it depends on the cost but I am certain if you lineup Locket in the slot with DK and OBJ outside this will be an explosive offense.
I am not as down on the OL as most and actually think the unit has been solid expect for a couple of games early and last time out against the Rams. I would really like to see them make Jemarco Jones the starter at RG because he has excelled when he has played.
What do you guys think about this option for the OL this off season.
-Cut Britt and let Ifedi walk . Use that $15-20 mil to sign Dante Fowler or another pass rusher.
-Sign Fant mid level Deal (3 yr / $15 mil)
-Draft Isiah Wilson Rd #1 and Nick Harris Rd #3. Bring both guys in to compete but make sure they dont have to start in case they need a year to develop.
-Trade a 2nd round pick to TB for OJ Howard
2020 OL / TE
LT Brown /Fant
LG Haynes or Pocic
C Hunt or Lewis or Pocic
RG Jemarco Jones / Fluker
RT Fant / Wilson
TE Dissly / Howard / Hollister
2020
LT Fant
LG Haynes
C Lewis
RG Jones
RT Wilson
TE Dissly / Howard / Hollister
Assuming you mean Harris and not good ole’ Patrick Lewis…
You know I’m always down with trading for OJ Howard!
In this scenario, we miss out on top WRs, though. Perhaps a quality Tackle is worth it if he is available to us. And there may still be some WR talent with our other R2 pick.
I might rather re-sign Ifedi, draft WR in R1, trade one R2 for OJ and use the other to draft C (Ruiz, Harris; there are a couple good options in the class).
I think our current cap space + cutting Britt would be enough to get another pass rusher.
In this scenario I had mocked the following. It was assuming they retain Josh Gordon, Moore, Ursa.
OJ Howard and Dissly coming back would be the two additional weapons for Russ.
Rd #1 Isiah Wilson (RT / Georgia)
Rd #2 Neville Gallimore (DT /Oklahoma)
Rd #2 Traded for OJ Howard
Rd #3 Nick Harris (C/ Wash)
Rds 4-7 (RB, Defense)
I have to admit given the talent in this WR class, resigning Ifedi and adding one of those guys in Rd #1 or using that pick to trade for OBJ is a lot more enticing than I thought it would be before the season began. Ifedi has been pretty good this year but I just dont want to see the Hawks pay big $ for a league average RT at best. If they can get him at a reasonable price then for sure go that route.
I don’t expect Wilson to be there when the Seahawks draft. The premium on tackles and his quality should land him in the top 20 fairly easily I’m guessing.
Either way, it looks like 2019 is the end of the specialized “Fant as the bully TE” role. Which means either finding a replacement or adjusting that part of the offense.
I can’t see Jones supplanting Fluker next year. Fluker is a bad man who sets a tone. Some of those blocks vs Minnesota were downright nasty.
I have always been a Fluker supporter at absolutely love his attitude but Jones has been far better in pass pro and is a solid run blocker as well. He does not have Flukers power or nastiness but he so soooo much better technique wise.
I think if Fluker was not such a leader and tone setter that he would have already lost his spot. The other option is keep Fluker at RG and move Jones to LG or compete with Fant at RT.
I don’t disagree but Fluker has what PC and Solari crave. Simmons had a good game or two spelling him and everyone all of the sudden was talking about Fluker losing his spot last year. Didn’t happen. Feels like ditto with Jones this year.
I could see the Hawks using Jones as a super sub. Can spell RG, RT, even LT if needed.
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of another big swing in a trade. Honestly, I’d rather go for a DE than a WR, but I wouldn’t be opposed to going for someone of OBJ’s caliber. The only issue I can see is it puts greater emphasis on development for young guys, and really nailing late round picks again.
I still don’t love OBJ as a player, and I’d rather we didn’t trade for him, but I’m not vehemently against it. There’s a few other WRs or TEs on the market that Rob’s discussed, and even trading a 1st rounder for someone like that could upgrade our team. OBJ would be awesome. Diggs would be awesome. OJ Howard would be a great compliment. Even a true weapon at RB (i.e. someone like Leveon Bell with the Jets agreeing to pay a portion of his salary) would be a game changer for this offense. We need more playmakers if we want to beat teams like the saints and the rams. Lets go get someone that’s dominant.
I don’t think adding an aging and declining Lev Bell would be to benefic9to our team plus his attitude. If we can sign Carson to a team friendly deal and Penny heals up to his old self we should be fine at RB. I think WR and A playmaker at TE would benefit us more.
Bell’s attitude isn’t a deal-breaker here compared to Beckham’s. He’s definitely older, but I think his decline is more a function of the Jets being garbage than his talent. Their coach doesn’t even want him (so the rumors say). Do I think he’s a perfect fit for this team? No. If the Jets are desperate to get rid of him and would take a 4th or 5th rounder, I’d definitely think about it. Behind a better OL, with a better QB, he could be a killer compliment to this attack. He’d be the type of player Prosise was supposed to be.
Lev Bell has an attitude??
I really think Rob is onto something with regards to the Hawks using some of thier draft capital to make a trade.
Three Options (Which would be best?)
#1 First Round Pick for OBJ
#2 Second Round Pick for Stephon Diggs
#3 Second Round Pick for OJ Howard
I think it is a toss up between Diggs and Howard. Given that the strength of this draft is WR I tend to prefer the Howard trade but wow a WR group of (Locket, Diggs, Metcalf and Gordon) would be scary.
I’d take choice 3. Next year our TE room before the draft or FA is likely going to be Dissly (back to back season ending injuries), Hollister (a nice backup TE), and Swoopes (a practice squad caliber player). I assume that Dickson will be cut to save cap space. Howard would make a great addition to this team. We’ve got the draft picks and cap space to really have a championship offseason. I could easily see us, if we do this right, be a 12-13 win team next season.
They’ve done it before, and in similar situations to this year. I’m hoping they learn from their mistakes in the past and sacrifice less (as they did with Diggs and Clowney), but I’d happily give up this years first for a real difference maker.
Frankly, I don’t even need Diggs or Beckham to put up 1000 yards. I just want a guy who will make plays when the chips are down and draws a bit more coverage from Lockett and Metcalf.
Watching ETN highlights and noticed how often his big runs are the result of the TE JC Chalk destroying a defender. Plays a little FB as well, and I don’t think is slated to be a high draft pick. Any chance the Hawks would be interested in late round flier on him?
Very interesting article on how Ravens have compensated for loss of pass rushers and killed it – https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-baltimore-ravens-defensive-changes-2019
No wonder Ravens defense is top 5 or top 10 year after year without any big stars…
Does anyone have a good argument against OBJ that doesn’t include his “attitude problems”
Would really love to hear something tangible rather than narrative based arguments.
He’s having a down year, but thats the only reason we can even afford to have this conversation. Elite player that would probably improve the team. Clearly has respect for Russ. Not sure what some people think is gonna happen
There’s already been good arguments/opinions against:
1) His production has fallen off three years in a row (one because of injury)
2) He’s dropped a lot of passes this year…off his game
3) He’s had injuries and might require treatment this off season
4) Some wonder whether he’ll ever return to his peak performance level again
5) Though his contract may not be exorbitant, people think the money is better spent elsewhere
Answers:
Actually, his production per game played has not fallen off. He just played fewer games.
If we had to cut him due to injuries, he has zero cap hit.
An OBJ below peak level would still be the best receiver on this team.
What is clear is, due to his excessive pay, his trade value is far below two R1 picks. I’m not even sure, he would command one.
OBJ would want top WR money when in fact he’s a slightly more productive version of Tyler Lockett.
What do you mean he would want top WR money?
He already got paid, he’s under contract for 4 more seasons..
By the time other guys get paid.. his Contract has potential to look like a bargain. I mean heck, he’s already only the 4th highest paid receiver.
Apparently you didn’t read my tangible point that he has dropped a lot of balls. Our offense is not one that is well suited to a large number of drops, and every game I have seen of OBJ he has had multiple, significant drops.
OBJ has some of the best hands in the NFL. I’ve seen bad Baker whizzing fastballs late and underutilizing his weapons
“Baker whizzing fastballs late”
That’s a perfect description of what is going on. Some of these guys expect it to come easy like college in a Lincoln Riley offense. When it’s not easy they resort to nothing but mindless line drives.
Baker Mayfield looked great early in the Miami game because suddenly it was Oklahoma again. He had Beckham and others running free and could choose any trajectory and pace he desired. In the typical game Baker simply isn’t deciphering quickly enough or well enough. It lends to those late fastballs.
He’ll never be much of anything unless the game slows down for him and he starts varying the rpm
I think the drops are an over exaggerated item
Per fox sports website OBJ has 6 drops,
For what it’s worth s diggs also has 6 dropa but people keep arguing for him.
Mike Evans has 7 drops.. dk Metcalf has 5
I did find this interesting:
OBJ is also 2nd in the league with DPI calls at 7..
All told the Seahawks have 15 drops this season and Cleveland has 16..
I personally don’t think Drops is a super valid argument against trading for him.
I suppose those are all fair.
I need to get off twitter:
“PCJS suck at drafting in first round”
“Stop trading away 1st round picks”
Kenny, are you trolling people on twitter again?
Just started pulling up interviews of prospects and I totally forgot how much I hate listening to rookies talk
Go Ahead Sewell!!!
It’s unbelievable how much more articulate the basketball prospects are, even though they are often 2+ years younger
Ray Guy Award went to an Auzzie again “it’s goin home where it belongs
So, with certain position groups getting hit by injuries…
we can all agree, Seattle will draft a RB and TE. What I have not figured out yet, would the best value be a TE early and RB late or the other way around? I also assume they will add some pieces via FA or trades prior to the 2020 campaign.
I’m also trying to decide, would a developmental QB be worth a decent draft pick or would they stand pat and keep an aging veteran as the back-up? Who would be the ideal back-up rookie?
I could see a 4th or 5th round pick on a developmental QB if they liked what they saw in someone.
Personally I would like to see a free agent TE come in. Then we could get one of the receivers early and draft a RB in maybe the 3rd after trading down for like 2 extra late thirds (we know its gonna happen) Then focus all of our other recourses on defense and OL
Brandon Scherff might be available as a FA. I wouldnt mind seeing us pay up for him and Ngakoue or Fowler, if it meant we could still re-sign Ifedi and Fant. Draft a Center in round 2 and roll with it.
LT: Brown, Fant, Jones
LG: Jones, Haynes,
C: Pocic, Draft Pick
RG: Scherff, Fluker,
RT: Ifedi, Fant
The downside is it would price someone else out. Let’s say Jarran Reed and Britt in this case.
DE: Clowney, Collier,
DT: Ford, Jefferson
DT: Woods, Draft Pick/FA
DE: Ngakoue, Green, Branden Jackson
*Shaq Griffin at LB*
This could be a really good group if that draft plck was someone like Raekwon Davis.
We would have added size, speed, and legit quality pass rushing to our DL. While improving our OL with a proven blue chip veteran Guard in Scherff, and injecting it with youth at LG and C with Jamarco Jones and Pocic/draft pick.
This could really beef us up and get us ready to play with the big dogs next season. Weve got the playmaking on offense and defense already. We need sacks and to become more of a bully, beef up the trenches.
Ballparking the numbers to sign all of them and Clowney (Reed not included) I’d say around $70M. We’re projected to have $72M in cap space. Cutting Britt alone would get us over $80M. Ed Dickson and DJ Fluker would get us up to $87M.
That would leave us with around $17M for anything we want after signing Clowney, Ngakoue, Scherff, Ifedi and Fant.
DT, C and WR would then really intrigue me in round 1
Not a bad plan but personally that looks awfully thin in the middle of the DL. Davis and Kinlaw are probably long gone by the time the Hawks draft.
-Scherff or Ifedi
+Reed
for me.
Yup, definitely does leave DT thin. We would almost need to draft DT first. However, we could keep Reed also if we structured the contracts right. Unlikely since we have another tough slate of free agents next year also
Isn’t the salary cap projected to go up around 8m as well?
I was just going off what I’ve seen was projected. I saw 72M
Watching that Ravens offense last night all I could think was that this looks like Petes dream offense. Run first ball control with a dynamic QB and smash mouth RB. Then the explosive plays over the top. Add in the fact they are ultra efficient and dont turn the ball over.
A lot like the Hawks SB winning offense except they have a lot better OL and Jackson is a more dynamic runner than Russ.
They remind me a lot of the 15-1 Carolina team that went to the SB a few seasons back.
Jackson is super fun to watch and as far as I can see nobody can stop them. Maybe next year teams will have better plans but I do see them winning it all this year. I’m also kinda glad that Jackson is finally getting hyped more than Mahomes.
Yeah, but who would you take to be your team’s QB of the two. Mahomes in a second flat for me.
I think for the next 3 years Jackson but for the next 10 years Mahomes. Not sure Lamar can hold up long term and what happens if he looses a step.
Here’s the thing about that and it’s something I saw week 1 against Miami and why I was so blown away by him.
He’s improved exponentially as a passer. Even since week 1 he’s improved. Hell, even since 3 weeks ago he’s gotten better. It’s extremely hard, almost impossible to change a QBs mechanics. And Lamar has done it.
You are sure, that Mahomes will stay relevant for 10 seasons? He already had real problems this season, and he shows no signs of being able to reinvent his game.
Lamar just did that, and this is how franchise QBs emerge. He would be the first since RW.
Mahomes doesn’t have to reinvent his game as far as I can see. He got injured this year on a fluke play. That’s all. There is only one other QB who can accurately make the insane amount of different throws that Mahomes can, and that’s Aaron Rodgers. The guy’s a throwing machine.
The AFC North is about to have Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrows, and Duck Hodges. Poor Browns. Still looking for theirs.
Digging into some guys off the field and man if GMs & HC’s don’t crush hard on Miss St’s Kylin Hill I will be floored.
Dylan Moses ran a 4.46 this spring at 235 lbs! Guess his dad training him since he was a little kid is paying off.
Zack Baun so far looks about as clean as they come. Was a QB in HS, overcame foot and knee issues to become a team captain.
Terrell Suggs just got cut by Arizona per Rapsheet
If he clears waivers then I’d be surprised if we don’t kick the tires on him. I remember Rob was talking about looking at him in the offseason. We really need any pass-rusher we can get at this if we want to make a push, especially if Clowney and Ansah are both hurt.
Wonder if he still wants to play or what.
I’d be surprised if they didn’t look into his situation. Good player and the right price.
Wonder if his goal is to get back to Baltimore now that they are a contender.
Probably. But they’re #31 or #32 on the waiver wire.
Add a bonus clause to his contract. $250k per sack.
Get a sack, buy a Bentley. Get another sack, buy a Ferrari.
Yeah, sure he’ll be *super happy* watching Carson get 20+ carries with a fumble every game while he records career lows in targets.
Clowney’s out for Sunday’s game. God I hope this injury doesn’t ruin the rest of the season for him and us all.
I think he is sick with the flu bug that all the others had last week.
Yeah, that too, I read. I just hope the core injury doesn’t stifle his play too much the rest of the way.
He was limited on Friday then ruled out. He probably tried to practise and realise he can’t. And I don’t see it’s because of flu. I have already said, it wouldn’t surprise me that he ends up on IR soon.
A little off topic, but I absolutely adore the Ravens this year. They’ve taken the most ridiculously bold approach, with all the defensive retooling, the going for it on 4th down, to basically running a triple option offence in the NFL. And they’re kicking butt doing it.
I love it in sports where teams are completely unafraid to do it their own way and have this kind of success. If the Seahawks dont win the superbowl I really hope its them. I also have Lamar as my fantasy QB, which has been a lot of fun (except when they played the Seahawks and I benched him because of my unwavering morals).
Such a fun team. The definition of a super bowl favorite. I’d be surprised if they didn’t win it all honestly. Especially with Brady finally showing his age. The only ones in their way are SF, NO, SEA and KC IMO
KC and NO are the ones with the best chance of beating them in my opinion. I think the only way you’re beating that offense right now is by out-shooting them in a shootout. Mahomes did it once this season and can probably do it once more. I can see Brees pull one out on the last drive or something like that. Niners almost did it, but honestly I dont see them getting close again if Ravens have a game of info on them now. Russ can maybe do it, but it would take us firing on all cylinders. If I were a betting man though, and I am not, I’d definitely go with Baltimore to take the Lombardi.
That sounds about right to me, too. If I was Baltimore, the one team I wouldn’t want to face in the AFC is KC.
Sounds like cardinals might be thinking of moving on from David Johnson after this year. Looking at his contract tho, it’s almost all guaranteed already thought 2021 season. Does this make him more or less likely to be cut or more likely to be traded? I would assume traded, but idk. Doubt they would trade him to us, but would be interesting if cut.
I did a little “over that cap” sleuthing on this one….
There really isn’t a way for them to cut him, unless they are willing to eat a 13M+ cap hit…. a trade would be more likely, but I can’t see anyone taking that king of salary on, unless they trade some salary back in return. He is also 29, so no way someone wants to pay a RB big dollars when they are getting around 30 years old. So, I guess, this is me saying Seattle will pass on him, unless he happened to get cut…..
The only 2 teams I could see trying o get him would be the Colts and the Dolphins, since they have close to 100M to spend next season.
WOW
Walter Jones was voted one of the top 7 tackles in NFL history on the top 100 list.
An amazing player. Very worthy of all the accolades that have come his way.
As he should be.
Since we’re on the subject of LTs. Is there a better one currently other than Ronnie Stanley? My goodness.
Wow, this is hilarious. I guess never put too much stock into the pre-draft visits lol…
https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL/status/1205669711746236417
Ray Guy Award coming back home to Australia. He was a pretty ordinary footy play Max Duffy, glad he’s been able to find his niche. Such an easy skill to transfer, only going to pick up from here.
Count me ALL IN on Terrel Suggs. Suggs is still productive. Suggs has 5.5 sacks on the year. No one on Seattle’s roster has more than three. I am sure that someone will snag Suggs before Seattle gets a chance to take him. But if he is still on the board I stay go for it.
WOW. Just read chase young is planning as of now to return to Ohio State next year.
Big IF true.
We all got a plan until a bag full of millions is on our face.
How I’m tryna wake up.
💰
😴
Sh***t. Im just tryna wake up hoping it don’t say ‘insufficient funds’ when I run my debit card.
😂😂😂😂
Yeah… bet that doesn’t happen.
F**k. That’s gonna be whack if Shaq is out tommorow.
far bigger loss than Clowney IMO given our lack of depth at the position. I have a really bad feeling about this game. Expecting a 35-28 type game and hope we come out on top.
We should hear this afternoon if Suggs got claimed by anyone right? Is this waiver period still 24 hrs from the 1:00pm transaction time?
Think it’s Monday we hear
As we suspected:
Can we talk about Shaq Griffin? This dude is NOT just a special teams ace. He’s a real player. He has really helped replace the speed we lost with Jacob Martin.
He’s definitely a guy. Let’s see what he does w Clowney ruled out.
I wouldn’t go that far. He’s helped out a bit to give the rush some speed but he’s not creating consistent pressure.
One thing I have noticed as of late…is that Wilson is not throwing short to intermediate routes over the middle despite receivers being open…not mention that the middle is optimal area to throw guys open. This is a serious flaw…that the OC and Wilson seemingly corrected in the first half of the season. The loss of dissly has affected this sure…when you have a Metcalf…and a Gordon…and you lose your starting tight end… well you have them run routes over middle and let lockett run a diarrhea routes behind the crosses. This is like the read option…why even run it if Russ never keeps the ball? Why run crosses if Russ never throws the ball to that reciever? One guy I have an eye on is the backup te for the Huskies…otton…not sure when he is eligible.
Seattle adds Gordon giving them 3 legit wideouts. And because of that I was excited to finally see some dagger route concepts. W/o being able to see the All-22 tape it seems they’ve ran it maybe a few times at most.
The defensive game plan for the Hawks is two safeties keeping everything in front of them. If Russ does not overcome his hesitancy for throwing over the middle… he’s making it easy on those safeties.
I know that the draft is loaded with top WR talent and could possibly have a record number of WRs taken in the first, but there will be some really good WRs pushed down because of the depth of the position.
One WR I love is Lynn Bowden Jr out of Kentucky. He’s a damn Swiss Army knife who did practically everything while at Kentucky.
He played WR and returned kicks. They were short QBs 5 games in and they moved him to QB where he’s ran for over 1200 yards and 8.8 avg.
Overall he’s had over 1000 receiving, rushing, passing and returns in his career
My wish list for Sunday.
-A Hawks win I dont care how close or ugly
-Russ plays well and gets back on track
-The OL has a bounce back game
-No more injuries
-Hawks incorporate Gordon more into the offense.
-Locket gets back to being Locket
-Griffin steps up as a pass rusher and gets his first sack. With Clowney and Ansah out it is now or never I think for him.
-LJ Collier shows something and I mean anything because he hasn’t yet.
Inactives: Haynes, Roos, Kendricks, Luke Willson, Clowney, Ziggy, Shaquill
Shaquill has me worried the most, although maybe Kendricks is more important for shutting down McCaffrey. We can’t let him go 17/125yds/1TD like last year. Hopefully Barton (or maybe even BBK for extra sideline to sideline speed?) is up to the task.
Griffin being out is huge. Hawks missing 4 keys starters on defense will be a huge challenge.
PC/JS really need to address the lack of depth at CB this off season. I know they won’t take a CB early but if they were to add a guy like Shaun Wade from Ohio St to play the slot it would transform this secondary into an elite unit IMO. The slot has been a glaring weakness this year plus the depth behind Griffin and Flowers is almost non exsistent.
OJ Howard or a draft pick on rookie deal looking more appealing by the day.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28303139/sources-george-kittle-other-tes-expected-land-lucrative-deals-offseason
So Ursua finally active. Could this maybe be the part of the playbook that we have kept under wraps for our late-season push?
That and/or probably an element of sure-handedness that might be a response to those critical drops last week by Turner and Hollister.
Inactives:
Shaquill Griffin
Jadeveon Clowney
Ziggy Ansah
Mychal Kendricks
Luke Willson
Phil Haynes
Jordan Roos
Ah already posted
C’mon, Kenny! We expect you to be in full-season form by now…! 😉