The only thing that matters is whether you’re moving in the right direction. The Seahawks aren’t — and that’s why this week, a change of Head Coach is required.
In an alternative universe you could look at back-to-back 9-8 seasons, immediately after trading Russell Wilson, and suggest it’s not altogether surprising. If you were seeing encouraging performances, a blossoming team and a pathway to contention — you could easily make a case for continuing onwards.
This isn’t the case with the Seahawks.
What possible reasons are there to be optimistic after the 2023 season?
They spent all last off-season talking about fixing the run defense. It ended up being statistically worse this year and they don’t seem to have any idea how to fix it. It’s fundamental to your success, in the regular season and the post-season, to at least offer some resistance against the run. With the season on the line, the Seahawks gave up 570 rushing yards in their last three games. So much of Pete Carroll’s preferred identity is concentrated on running the ball well and defending the run. The Seahawks can’t do either well.
Tackling is abysmal and the defense is a shambles. This is despite investing so much money and picks in the unit. A quick recap — three second round picks on edge rushers, a huge free agent splurge on Dre’Mont Jones, bringing back Jarran Reed and Bobby Wagner, using a second round pick to rent Leonard Williams for 10 games, a first round pick on a linebacker, a top-five pick on a cornerback, huge contracts for two safeties and the Jamal Adams trade. To spend all this, aggressively, and produce a defense as bad as this is incredible. It’s been years since the Seahawks had a good defense and despite two resets, they’re still bad and are now facing a mini-reset, if not a third full reset of the unit.
Offensively they have an arsenal of tantalising weapons and a very capable veteran quarterback. Yet as a unit they’ve gone through stretches in games where the offense has just completely stalled. Look at the start of the second half today. The route concepts are maddening at times. They’ve no idea how to make the most of their use of two second round picks on two running backs (with Carroll bemoaning last week they aren’t physical tone-setters like Najee Harris and Derrick Henry). Unlike other teams, they don’t seem to know how to maximise their best weapons or feature tight ends in a modern passing attack.
The Seahawks were two horrible missed Matt Prater field goals away from going 1-5 in the NFC West. They are an absolute mile away from the San Francisco 49ers. Most teams are. Yet this was supposed to be the year where the gap at least closed, even a little. It almost feels further away than ever. And who’d bet against the Rams and Sean McVay continuing to dominate Carroll’s Seahawks, with the upstart team from Los Angeles turning what should’ve been a rebuilding season into a 10-7 playoff tilt with legitimate reasons for optimism in the post-season.
They were soft against Pittsburgh, at home, in a must-win game. They’ve been undisciplined in multiple games. They were battered by the good teams they faced and played-down to several weaker opponents. They continue to be pushed around in the trenches too often. When’s the last time you thought the Seahawks won a game because the coaches ‘out-coached’ the other sideline?
What can you cling to tonight? What gives you hope for next year?
At least 12 months ago it was the rise of Geno Smith, an unexpected playoff run, a really entertaining start to the season and a treasure trove of picks coming up courtesy of the Russell Wilson trade.
All of that energy has now gone. The team was unsatisfying to watch in 2023. They’ve done nothing to move things forward despite a 2023 draft class most people approved of while making key moves in free agency.
They not only don’t have a nice collection of picks this year, they’ve already given away their second rounder. Meanwhile according to Over the Cap, they’re $9.3m in debt for the 2024 season when it comes to effective cap space. They need to create money just to be able to spend anything this off-season.
They can’t just bring everyone back for more of the same.
They’ve gone 7-10, 9-8 and 9-8 in the last three seasons, with one playoff appearance. They’ve got one playoff win in seven years, against the Eagles and a 40-year-old backup quarterback. Their only other playoff wins since the 2014 Super Bowl are the Blair Walsh missed-kick game and a victory at home against the Lions.
Pete Carroll, in his seasons without Russell Wilson, has gone 33-36 (including playoffs).
This has just come to a natural end.
The Seahawks needs a complete fresh start. It’s time to celebrate Carroll’s time in Seattle, which has been glorious for many reasons that we don’t get to talk about enough because of the way it’s ending. A polite, mutual parting of ways allowing everyone to salute the man who made history in Seattle is only right and proper.
A new set of eyes is needed on the roster. A new voice, with new ideas is required to shift things into a different direction. That would give fans the hope that is currently lacking. Giving the new coach a chance, seeing what he can achieve — that’s all the Seahawks have to offer right now.
After 14 years it’s time for someone new to come in and have their chance to lead this franchise.
With Ian Rapoport and Tom Pelissero reporting earlier today that Carroll’s contract only has one guaranteed year remaining, with an option for 2025, it changes the complexion of the situation completely. It’s far less costly to part with Carroll, if that is necessary.
It’s not just a financial thing though. If the team was close, you can well imagine Carroll coming back for another year to give it one last shot. He cannot possibly look at the way his team is performing and think one off-season will have the Seahawks in contention.
Big changes are required. They might need to cut several players and replace them on the cheap. They’re going to have to go through some form of transition because the cap situation dictates that. The likelihood is that won’t take one off-season.
Carroll staying just delays things. Presumably they’d be trying to band-aid roster gaps if he stays — or worse they’d make a load of aggressive moves and handcuff a new coach in 12 months if things don’t work out (and they rarely do when you chase glory when it’s not actually that close).
Right now, with the way things are trending, Carroll is more likely to do harm to his legacy by carrying on.
It’s the ideal time to bow-out. The task is too big for a coach facing a lame-duck season. A new head honcho is required to oversee the changes and shape things his way.
I think Carroll understands this. His body language felt quite telling during the Arizona game. He seemed quite relaxed at the start, more relaxed than he has been in recent weeks. He gave off a ‘I’m going to enjoy this’ vibe. At the end he almost seemed quite emotional. I appreciate I might be reading into it — but it is what I thought watching the broadcast.
I did wonder too, whether the Leonard Williams trade — given how aggressive it was — might’ve been one last big push for Carroll to get over the top. Seattle made that deal with the New York Giants when they were 5-2 and in first place. Even then, was this viewed as the last rodeo? Go all-in to get the job done, with light emerging in the NFC tunnel, in Pete’s final year? I can’t help but be drawn to that thought.
People have picked up on his comments after the game. He was asked if he expects to be back next season and he replied, “at this point I do.”
As soon as I read that quote, I thought of the language Carroll used right before the Russell Wilson trade. He was asked about the possibility of dealing Wilson and said they had “no intention” of parting with him. Shortly after, he was gone.
“At this point I do (expect to be back)” feels a lot like having “no intention” of a Wilson trade. You’re hedging your bets while not giving the media any fuel to burn. I guess we’ll see if that comparison is accurate in the coming days.
The fact Carroll is out of contract after the 2024 season also means it makes no sense to just change both coordinators. Why would you do that if there’s a strong chance the Head Coach is leaving in a year? Carroll has appointed two offensive coordinators and three defensive coordinators since their last deep playoff run. He’s had ample opportunity to get this right and if Clint Hurtt and/or Shane Waldron need replacing — that’s another reason why the man who appointed them needs to be questioned.
People have often wondered how Jody Allen would approach a situation like this. Many have suggested she’d be inactive. On the contrary, Allen (who is well supported by Bert Kolde) has been the opposite of inactive.
Allen gave the green light for the Wilson trade — a huge, franchise-changing move. As owner of the Portland Trailblazers, she also parted ways with long-time coach Terry Stotts in 2021 after the Blazers’ fourth first-round playoff exit in five years. He’d been with the team since 2012.
These are not the actions of someone sitting on their hands. Although Carroll’s standing in Seattle is significantly different to Stotts’ in Portland, the situations on the field and court are similar.
Based on the direction of the team, the performance on the field, the contract situation, the need for structural change to the roster and the need either this year or in the near future to draft a quarterback, now is the ideal time to make a change.
Personally I would like to see a coach come in who has shown he can lead a unit. I’m not particularly interested in a coordinator who plays second fiddle to an offensive/defensive leader at Head Coach. I want someone who has controlled one side of the ball and done an outstanding job.
Ben Johnson the Lions offensive coordinator has produced a top-five offense (per DVOA) without an elite quarterback. Detroit’s roster feels similar to Seattle’s. He has succeeded with Jared Goff and would take on a similar veteran starter in Geno Smith. In two seasons, Johnson has got excellent production out of a duel-threat at running back. He’s shown he can feature his best weapons in the passing game, including at tight end. Basically, he’s done a lot of things we want to see in Seattle.
He could come in and be tasked with emulating his success in Detroit with the Seahawks’ offensive talent. Pair him with an experienced defensive coordinator and that feels like a good way to begin a new era. The Lions have just enjoyed a 12-5 season and there’s no reason why the Seahawks can’t have similar success, albeit in a tougher division than the NFC North.
If the Seahawks want a defensive-minded Head Coach, then go and get Mike McDonald in Baltimore. He inherited the 28th best defense per DVOA, improved their ranking to #8 last season and they are #1 this year. He’s achieved all of this despite not having a Nick Bosa, Myles Garrett, Micah Parsons or Aaron Donald-level pass rusher. McDonald has elevated the performance of players like Jadeveon Clowney, turned Justin Madubuike into a star, got every drop out of his secondary talent and they play tough, physical and fast.
If Seattle believes improving their own porous, shambolic defense is the key going forward — McDonald has shown he can do that in Baltimore without relying on elite blue-chip talent. Furthermore, he coached a defense that recently beat San Francisco in their own stadium. He made life very difficult for Kyle Shanahan. Imagine that.
They are the two candidates I’m mostly focused on. You can also make a case for Bob Slowik the Texans offensive coordinator. He’s done an excellent job with C.J. Stroud, which could be helpful if you intend to draft a quarterback early. He’s also enticing given he comes from the same Washington staff that once had Shanahan, McVay and Matt LaFleur working together.
If Carroll does depart, though, I fully expect Dan Quinn to get the job.
I have mixed views on this. Firstly, I do think it’s a benefit having been a Head Coach before. You know what to expect and can learn from past mistakes. I think he’ll do a good job putting a staff together. Al Harris is a dude and it’d be good to see him join Quinn as defensive coordinator. I think it’ll be a huge attraction for offensive coordinators to come and work with Quinn, because they’ll get to own the offense and inherit a talented bunch of weapons.
On the other hand, I’m hesitant to appoint someone who could be viewed as a ‘continuity candidate’. The Seahawks feel like they need a complete fresh start, with someone willing to make tough decisions. It can’t just be Carroll without Carroll. Quinn has also benefited greatly in Dallas due to the presence of Parsons, a generational defensive talent. He also benefitted from the LOB before taking the Falcons job — and the performance of his defense’s in Atlanta without star talent left a lot to be desired. They were average at best.
It’s felt on the cards, though, ever since Quinn returned to the league and rebuilt his image, that a return to Seattle would happen one day. I remember watching the quarterback pro-days a year ago, seeing Carroll and Quinn together all the time. They’re clearly close. The Seahawks have had contingency plans in place for a while, as Rapoport and Pelissero reported. Ed Werner, who is connected in Dallas, was touting it on Sunday. The only stumbling block could be Jerry Jones’ desire to retain Quinn, which could even mean at the expense of Mike McCarthy — according to an article from Adam Schefter on Saturday.
Even though I expect Quinn to replace Carroll if he leaves, I hope the Seahawks will hold a series of legit interviews and will allow themselves to be swayed.
Timing isn’t a big issue and nothing has to happen immediately. You can’t interview coaches in the playoffs until after the divisional round, per new rules for this year. If the Seahawks wanted to speak to Johnson, McDonald, Slowik or Quinn — they’d have to wait two weeks. That’s ample time to hold meetings without any rush and they can talk through what happens next for the franchise.
I hope in the coming days I’m writing an article reflecting on all that was good about the Carroll era. What a ride it was during the LOB days. Never to be matched. Nothing lasts forever though and the Seahawks are not going to win a Super Bowl next year with Carroll before his contract ends.
They need to put themselves on a longer-term plan, instigate changes to the roster and improve performance to try and position themselves for a serious run in the future.
It’s time. If this was the final game, I’m not going to spend any time worrying about a drop from 14th overall to 16th overall in the draft. It was worth it to let a great coach end on a victorious note.
If you missed our post-game live stream, check it out here:
Fitting place to end Carroll’s run in that cursed stadium.
Unrealistic trade:
– trade Carroll to San Diego (I mean, the L.A.* Chargers)
Realistic trade:
– re-sign RW3 to the vet minimum
– trade Geno for whatever
– draft a QB at the top of the draft and sit them for a year
Russell isn’t coming back with John anywhere near this team. He and Mark Rodgers are not going to embrace a reunion.
You make some incredibly valid arguments, Rob and I agree with the premise of this article. Nice work on the new site. My first time seeing this change and hopefully we see a sea-change of the #Seahawks this off-season.
Rob… I think you are right. But I don’t see the logic.
– even if you draft a QB, you’ll want a veteran
– RW3 is better than Geno
– RW3 is cheaper than Geno
– RW3 is (probably) humbled now that he failed in Denver
– RW3 gets to redeem the thing he values most… his reputation in Seattle
– I don’t see how Mark Rodgers can fuck up signing for the vet minimum
– maybe there is ruffled feathers from the past… but hard ball is unsentimental
– heck, maybe Schneider is gone too
But, yea, I think the chances are like 2%.
lmfao That is not happening. He tried to get Schneider and Carroll fired.
He’s not coming back. Period.
This assumes two things that I have trouble imagining. Russ wanting to play for Seattle absent a complete house cleaning. And second Russ being willing to sign for the veteran minimum. I imagine his ego will insist on taking the highest bid and some team will offer $10M or more. Even if his contract reduces what Denver owes him. It’s not like we’re the team that can best promise to revitalize his career. Perhaps he’ll chose to back up on a team with real Superbowl potential and hope for a chance. Maybe he’ll want to play for a coach he believes can and will feature him.
John and Mark Rodgers despise each other
That’s the logic
They aren’t getting back into each others lives
RW is never coming back to the Seahawks. He burned too many bridges with the Seahawks before he left.
He is still worth more than the veteran minimum, but since Denver still owes him a crapload of money, he might be able to sign for that.
Geno’s cap hit next year is 30M plus. You are not going to get anything of value for him unless you take a big dead cap hit. Maybe get a Day 2 pick for Geno, but the dead cap space is going to be painful.
We take a dead cap hit anyway!! We are 100% paying him either $17 millie or maybe $9 millies.
If you trade him you can save $14 – 22 millie.
I don’t know the specifics or what site to trust… but it is reasonable that a team without a QB would trade a pick for a quality bridge QB at a cheap cost.
I wonder. Would anyone take Geno off our hands and absorb his contract in a trade, perhaps one in which the teams switch round 7 picks. If so, I’d be in favor.
Great read, thank you Rob!
Could you see a scenario where they bring in Jim Harbaugh for a chat? He took an underachieving 49ers team under Mike Singletary and had them competitive in short order. He turned Alex Smith into a pro bowler in one season, and showed creativity in his offense when they made the switch to CK. This is all in addition to what it would mean to the rivalry with SF.
I can’t imagine Pete signing off on this if they keep him on in some kind of advisor/front office role…or Pete is less petty than I’m giving him credit for.
Thanks again!
Harbaugh will not coach the Seahawks
Too much history, too much baggage that comes with JH. Very few teams can deal with it.
They aren’t going there
I’d hate that hire. Watched the interviews with DeBoer and Harbaugh leading up to the National Championship game. I love DeBoer. He seems so smart, down to earth and sincere. When he speaks of creating a culture of love and support, call me naive but I believe him.
Then I watch Harbaugh say many of the same things but it seems as real as a three dollar bill. The guy just drips smarm. As much as I feel it’s time to move on from Carroll, I’d rather stick with him than go with Harbaugh. Some things feel truly wrong. Sticking with Carroll seems misguided, even idiotic, but not immoral.
It was a very Pete Carroll type game, won in the 4th quarter, sealed with a great Lockett touchdown, maybe his last too if he retires. Maybe Paul blew the ball right of the upright again a couple times for his greatest coach to have the proper sendoff. Holmgren’s snow game vs the Favre Jets comes to mind when thinking about this game.
Great comp to the Jets game
Any thoughts or feelings on Jim Harbaugh to Seattle?
It’s not happening. Too much history, too much ‘stuff’ that comes with Harbaugh. He will want a big say in the draft too. It’s not going to happen so little point lingering on it.
I understand your take, and if Pete Carroll has any say in the next coaching hire, Jim Harbaugh (JH) would be vetoed, but JH has proven to be able to create winning teams in short periods of time. Yes, JH would want more control and say in the draft and other areas that a GM typically handles, but that was the case when Pete was hired as well, and John Schneider made it work. I’d be absolutely thrilled if JH were hired, and he’d be my top pick, but if not, I like your suggestion of Ben Johnson and Mike McDonald as well.
What might be worse though (maybe second worst scenario to Pete continuing on in 2024) would be to get Dan Quinn as the head coach. His current defense, with Parsons, had no answers for the 49ers, and it is hard to envision him as a creative genius that could turn the Seahawks around. It is possible that under Dan Quinn the Seahawks might find newer depths to sink to.
Me thinks Pete will be back again next season.
Hate it because it means Pete will bring in a bunch of new coordinators into a situation where the HC is gonna bail in like another season. I’d rather clean house and let a new regime do their own thing.
I mean I’ll be honest, if I’m Pete, I’d come back too if no one has the balls to fire me.
Sure. Me too, assuming I wasn’t ready to retire.
Can’t imagine any decent assistants wanting to come into this scenario. For a very temporary stint with a stubborn old coach who will totally tie their hands.
If Pete does go, it’ll be as bittersweet as Russ leaving.
It’s hard to point to a coach with as focused a vision and as strong a program as Pete has had. He made plenty of mistakes over the years, but the highs were far higher than any lows, and the highs probably represent one of the most fun teams to cheer for no matter the sport, EVER. A defense to rival the 85 Bears made of castoffs and enforcers, a short QB that earned an F in the draft, a coach who should have stayed in college, an RB with more heart and personality than most teams, and all happening in the last place the media wants to talk about??
A fresh, competitive, and ruthless approach is what it took to leave the Holmgren era. An era full of stars. But it was just stale, and we were all stuck hyping up guys that weren’t bad players, but just weren’t part of a competitive future team.
Build this new team around this young core. Devon Witherspoon is a star surrounded by players who don’t deserve to be on the same field as him. It’s been embarrassing since the Giants game to have some of these guys next to him. Give us a rookie QB to cheer on surrounded with awesome talent on offense. I’m sick of watching players that don’t have the fire that the Legion of Boom had. That Doug and Marshawn had. Move on.
That’s why Pete leaving is so sad. All the future Hawks teams have to be compared to HIS team. Built in his vision and letting the players be everything they were meant to be. Pete’s awesome.
Yes, he is awesome. But he has lost his coaching mojo, as measured by wins, losses and stats. The defense in particular has become the albatross around his neck. The Hawks lost talent since the Glory Days, and that loss came complete with increasing failures on Pete’s part to understand what the team was, and was not, I fear some of that failure of understanding was a function of Pete hearing the clock ticking, and stretching to believe things about his team that were simply not true, in order to justify some truly bad signings that will continue to sting well beyond this season. You really have to squint to see any real progress over the last several years, and given Pete’s power within the organization, the buck stops with him.
Won’t be bittersweet for me, Ben. I’ll be dancing in the street.
Agreed, Petr has has been well compensated for several years to turn the Seahawks into a mediocre mess.
To each their own I guess. I want Pete to leave this year, but doesn’t mean I won’t miss what he brought to Seattle.
Honestly very surprised at the response to this post. Guess until he’s gone it’ll be like this though.
There never will be a LOB again. This is the simple truth, and we should embrace it.
And for all the fire… I prefer the cold professionalism of McVay and Shanahan, one of whom will coach in the SuperBowl. Nothing left to chance. No projects, but sane planning. No wanna-do, but shut up and action. Only signing real bluechips instead of wannabes. Giving young players a chance to shine, instead of making the HC and his crony players look good.
Mike McDaniel would have been ideal. The guy is hilarious.
I agree about the LOB, not before or since have I seen someone karate chop a ball out of someone’s hands at the goal line like Earl did. That dude never gave up on a play even when it seemed like it was over. Now we have guys afraid to tackle or backing out of plays (Woolen on the Harris TD anyone?) KJ had a good show where he basically said “Fuck the scheme and whoop a guy’s ass!” That mentality has been missing for awhile. Sometimes I feel the players are so worried about their assignments that they forget to whoop a guy’s ass … besides Spoon suplexing guys out there. Spoon to pro bowl and not Carter; Spoon better win DROY!
I will always be grateful that Pete came here and brought the seahawks to a level I would have never imagined, but every game played now takes away from that. I hope to hell he retires, or the Hawks move on and let Snyder take control and hire who he feels should be the next coach. Still no to Quin
Assuming he goes. Right now, not after another year of this disgrace — I’m sure I’ll get to a point of gratitude. Eventually. Perhaps a year or two down the road. Right now, I’m not there. I’m pissed at Pete for a thousand reasons that can summed up by the words “stubborn” and “egotistical”. The Williams trade is an example. Adams is another. Or if I think of old grudges, there’s Max Unger. Or not trading Thomas when we could have gotten something for him. Or resigning every veteran he likes for more than he was worth.
He’s long struck me as a great motivator but not much more. A California guy through and through, with personal charisma and appeal, but not real sharp or analytical. An old surfer dude who somehow became a head coach. It worked for a while and was fun while it did but I don’t worship the guy.
Amen brother and thank you for speaking a truth that many seem afraid to acknowledge.
The next few days should let us know what the Seahawks are doing in 2024.
They fired Schottenheimer 3 days after the season ended, Ken Norton Jr 9 days after the season ended.
If the first thing we hear is Hurtt or Waldron are fired (or the classic “mutual parting of ways”) that will mean Pete is coming back.
Agree
I would be fine with John and Jody telling Pete it’s ok to stay as head coach next season but he must hire outside OC and DC, leave them in control and just supervise, and have them compete for the head coach job in 2025. Second condition, no more nostalgic decisions, cut costs instead of overpaying for veterans. Bring Geno back on a smaller contract, cut Adams, cut Diggs, cut Dissly, say goodbye to Bobby, ask Tyler about his plans and if he’s in for a lesser role reduce his salary.
If you’re replacing coordinators again, just cut to the case and replace the HC
I agree and this is what I would do too if I had the power to make decisions, but I can well imagine they don’t want to show him the door, and just signal him that the option for 2025 won’t be pulled.
Brennan Carroll as OC and Tater Smith as DC. Give Pete one more year to get it right!
lmfao Are you serious?
There’s no sarcasm font here, but I have to think this was very much in jest. The darkest of humor.
No way Pete is capable of that, IMHO. He wouldn’t be able to keep his hands out of the cookie jar. Thats one reason I don’t want him retained in the front office. People complain about RW’s ego getting out of control, but I think Pete’s has been unchecked for years.
That’s precisely my reaction. May as well tell your dog not to sniff another dog’s butt or to regard poop the way you or I would. Like my dog, Pete has his own nature.
Second, good luck finding quality assistants who would come to Seattle, believing such promises.
At this point, Pete is tarnishing his legacy. Each year that he’s hung on has made me resentful and that’s sad. I used to enjoy the Pete-isms and now find them absolutely annoying. Stick around long enough and you become the villian is playing out in front of our eyes.
I agree with Cha…if we hear that a coordinator is fired, prepare for another year of Pete. I’m not sure I can do it.
I’m perfectly prepared to take a year off. I’d still care about the Hawks but there’s nothing requiring me to watch the farce unfolding on the field. I’d probably come here and chat with other long-suffering fans. I find it comfortable here because we’re birds of a feather, drawn to Rob’s perspectives. I don’t think I’d bother commenting at Fieldgulls, at least not on the Seattle boards. Could spend the year giving more time to other teams, not becoming a fan per se, but just giving more slices of my interest elsewhere. The plan would be to return when sane ownership finally took reasonable steps to improve the team.
How I feel too. If Mr. Ego is back, I won’t make any Seahawks game “appointment viewing”. If have something better/more fun to do, that’s how I’ll spend my time. And if there’s another game on at the same time that (likely) is more interesting, I’ll watch it. There’s just no point anymore.
Rob, I agree with so much of this. The candidates you’ve mentioned here are the guys that every team with an opening will chase this off-season. One thing I want is for the new guy to bring some culture, some idea of who he is and what he wants with him. When Pete first arrived, he knew what he wanted and set about putting it on the field. It was great. The new guy should inject new ideas and new messaging, just as Pete did. He lost the thread somewhere along the way and it’s past time to reinvigorate this franchise.
I’m happy, with one notable exception, with any of the guys you mentioned. The one guy I will echo in not wanting any part of is Quinn. He’s a plug and go guy who will ruffle the fewest feathers in the building. The building needs some feathers ruffled. Ben Johnson would be a slam dunk in Seattle. Dan Quinn would have his ass handed to him at least twice a year by his former OC, not to mention McVay.
Here’s hoping that Pete announces his intention to step aside during Brock and Salk in the morning. God forbid he goes in to the “pumped and jacked to get back out there and get after it” routine. Of course, I remember thinking the same thing two years ago.
Thanks for a year of great coverage that couldn’t have been much fun. May next season be far more interesting.
I’d be real happy with Johnson or Slowik. Not Quinn. I wouldn’t see the point of that move. I’d be open to other possibilities. The main thing is the vision and sincerity.
When Jenn Cohen dug up DeBoer, I had no idea who he was but within a few minutes of his first press conference I was sold. I could see his intelligence and feel his sincerity. By contrast, I came away from Jimmy Lake’s first press conference as head coach with concern. He spoke in platitudes that seemed hallow. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and by mid-way through the 2020 Covid season had come around to thinking he was the right hire, given the circumstances, but of course 2021 completely unmasked his incompetence. There were concerning signs along the way. I’m glad the Huskies were smart enough to move on before he ran the program into the ground, because that’s what was happening and it would have come apart fast. Imagine the transfer portal if DeBoer had not successfully rerecruited guys like Odunze.
In the NFL, it’s harder to build a lasting dynasty but it’s also harder to get so beyond the eight ball that one can’t rebuild in a few years. If you’re the smartest and best of coaches — which most aren’t. So the key is to have a great owner who finds a great GM who finds a great head coach who finds great assistants. Not easy but it can be done. And even if a team fails repeatedly, since the future can’t be predicted, it can be exciting and entertaining to go along for the ride. It’s not all about winning. How long has it been since there was any sort of sustained excitement in Seattle? I got carried away the night Lock led the winning drive against the Eagles. For a few hours, it felt like the LOB years. Call me misguided but the idea of seeing what Lock could do felt great. But it soon became clear that the organization and its fans, rightly or wrongly, have made up their minds about the guy. Rob included.
Cue the PacMan death sound 🔊
Hey rob, thanks for the article and really enjoy reading your takes. You have only mentioned a change at HC- does that mean you feel Schneider isnt part of the issue and needs to stay? Thoughts on that?
I would keep John, let him pick a new HC and prepare to draft a QB.
My concern with John is that he hasn’t shown much grasp for positional value. Some of the contracts for defenders have been frankly weird. Pete’s had influence there no doubt but John’s thinking isn’t as fresh as others around the league.
On the other hand, his draft record stands up across time and it’d be huge for continuity. I’d imagine Vulcan is most comfortable with the scenario you describe.
It would be so interesting to see Schneider as GM without Carroll as HC/GM/Final say/whatever else
I’d like someone to ask Pete tomorrow about his declaration about defense and tackling mid-week last week. “How are you going to turn it around in a week? Watch us.”
466 total yards
206 on the ground
Numerous missed tackles
Getting bamboozled on a trick play for a touchdown
We watched. What were we supposed to see?
Yeah but just how good is Bobby Wagner?
I did not see missed tackles as being as big of an issue this week as before – the problem tended to be oodles of blockers in position and outnumbering potential tacklers so that nobody laid a hand on them, especially when the Cards loaded up on TEs.
Also, it was a bit mystifying why the officials seemed to change the rules for this game. On the runs off tackle, holding that would have been an instant flag for the last 17 weeks seemed to be completely ignored (on the fourth down conversion in Q4 there is blatant one on a potential tackler who is eventually wrestled to the ground). The Seahawks were a bit naive in not trying to take more advantage of the non-calls themselves and purists discount Bush’s risky late contact on Murray as an example of “being clever.”
The cult of Pete is out in full force tonight, lots of fans seem fine with being average. Another year of Pete is nothing more than a wasted year for everyone
And a waste of cheap talent on rookie contracts. Before long, those guys are going to need to be paid, traded or cut.
It really is ridiculous the lengths people go to defend the man. “But he had another winning season!” I guess if you consider 9-8 and missing the playoffs a winning season. Too many old-timers whining about the dog days of this franchise, but is a mediocre 9-8 really better than 4-12?
Brother, I’m a New York Mets fan. I’ve known unimaginable suffering! No championships in close to 40 years and a perennial punchline. I would still rather win 40 games and actually look like we’re building something rather than go 82-80 and miss the playoffs. Being a fan through dry spells doesn’t mean we should be content with “good enough”.
Hey now.
I’m going to defend my hill in saying there’s as many old timers handwriting about being careful what you wish for as there are fans starting midway 2013 that have no world view without Pete as the coach.
Cause on this here site almost all the old cranks want Pete gone.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1771173/future-pete-carroll-geno-smith-seattle-seahawks-offseason-storylines/
It fees like Carroll is planning to return unless ownership intervenes.
No interest in watching Pete’s band-aid seasons anymore.
Right there with you, don’t have the time or energy to watch another year of this same old crap. It’s like watching Groundhog Day on repeat.
I think the only thing fans can do is boycott.. show the leadership we dont want to pay hard earned money for your bad choices..
Its a terrible thing end up like that.. but good franchises wouldnt let it come to that..
Carroll’s comments are addressed in the piece
Seattle Media writing the sentence “missed playoffs only 4 times out of 14” in apologizing style.
But when DiPoto says he wants to win 54% avg over a decade, making the playoffs 7 or 8 times, they absolutely roast him.
There absolutely are double standards at work.
Good end of the season stream.. i replied to a comment on the last post where someone said “we cannot even lose well”..
Only thing i could think of saying.. when the seahawks lose a game and the other teams lises harder..
They still see that as a win and its atrocious.. one good thing watching the stream, i then watched KJ all day.. and they were extremely critical of devon bush’s antics that bobby corrected (on live tv) and another thing that was real fast after the missed FG.. rig woolen grabbing his privates made it to live tv.. KJ did not go easy on them or the seahawks as a whole..
Just sad.. the players might want to say the right things now.. but to me.. it looks like a lot of bitter guys that probably think they didnt get coached well enough to succeed. Mostly the defense..
We can be critical of their play as we see it.. but what they might see, is them doing the job they were coached to do and it wasnt resulting in positive plays.. being in the right defense.. right personel.. the defense looked frustrated and at the very least, it didnt result in any dumb personal foul penalties..
One thing to note on the game.. there were a few non call penalties in the game.. just watched the bills/dolphins game.. a PI was called on a slant just like DKs where dk still had a chance to catch it but didnt.. in the SNF game.. same thing.. a tiny hand on the shoulder at the top of the route.. still had a chance to catch it.. flag comes out.. but dk had a guy on his back.. no call
A few holding on cardinals runs.. block in the back on bush.. even though in replay it looked like Bush was playing 2 hand touch..
Its almost like the NFL didnt want the seahawks to get into the playoffs over greenbay.. i might have my tin foil had on.. but its been on since 2006.. its the little details at the end if the season to take note..
And when the broadcast says that a play shouldnt happen for a td.. its even more suspicious..
My problem with KJ is he’s too beholden to Carroll and would never call for him to be fired or retire. He also wouldn’t advocate moving on from Wagner or any other veteran to whom he feels loyalty. In fact, he’d advocate for a big fat contract. So it doesn’t feel like he’s capable of being objective (I won’t say honest — let’s give him the benefit of the doubt) or placing the needs of the team and the fans first.
That’s why I don’t spend much time watching his show. If he were capable of being objective, I think his critiques would be great.
The Joker here is Carroll’s wife. I am not sure she is ready to have that ball of energy in her house 24 hours a day. She is probably saying “Your still got it” and “you need to be out there”.
Not our problem. Perhaps she can refurnish the basement and send him down there to play.
I think when Pete gets home she keeps him outside and hoses him down with some good ole PNW water on the hose’s strongest setting, and throws him a towel and a change of clothes before she lets him cross the threshold. It’s called ‘domestic survival with Pete’…
This team has way too much talent to look that bad!
I think for the first time in Pete’s tenure as head coach here in Seattle — he has looked and sounded his age.
It’s time. The product is stale. The defense lacks aggression. The offense lacks directions.
The only part of your analysis I disagree with, Rob, is where you say this is the ideal time for Pete to retire. I think that ideal time has passed. Two years ago, when Wilson was traded, was the perfect time. So that someone new and with a competent vision could have made use of our resources.
Pete has squandered a second and a fifth and, worse, our 2022 class has just two years left on their rookie contracts. The window to do good things with the haul we got for Wilson is closing. We’ve already erred and wasted precious time. It would be beyond stupid to waste another year for no good reason.
I said in another thread what I’d say to Pete Carroll. How can I miss you if you won’t go away? We should put it on a t-shirt.
https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/How-Can-I-Miss-You-if-You-Won-t-Go-Away-by-kathcom/27573799.73HD4
Hey Rob…
You know the college football scene in-and-out. Are there any college coaches that you think could make the transition to the pro’s like Pete did??? (Excluding Harbaugh, of course)
Rob suggested DeBoer last night on his podcast and I just about jumped out of my chair. Not in a good way. First, I desperately want the guy to stay with the Huskies, as I see him as the messiah who can finally bring the team to the elite status I’ve long thought it capable of achieving (given its history, community support and truly incomparable setting).
Second, it would seem such a waste of a great coach. Brilliant though the guy is, his brand of magic works in college with young, callow men. I don’t see him being effective with a bunch of spoiled prima donna millionaires and I don’t think he’d have much fun. Even though he’s a guy who seems to welcome and enjoy challenges. NFL coaching would just take him too far away from his core values. He’s salt of the earth and perfect for working with young men in this exciting and fairly sophisticated city with remarkably middle-American values for a place of its size and complexity.
Yeah, he just screams “college.”
And most guys don’t work out for a reason. Also, look what he’s done. Why would he want to win? If he wins tonight, he’s the Pete Carroll there. These same loyal fans will keep him until he’s getting rolled out on the field in a wheel chair.
Huskies are not going to be elite in the B10. All that travel will take a toll.
The Big Ten, where the top 2 or 3 teams (is Peen State really any good?) have one tough game a year? I think the Big Ten will have more trouble with UW and Oregon than vice-versa.
there is just no way Diggs and Adams are starting next year.. is there?
Also, seeing alot of “we have a winning season, how can you complain?”
For me its less about the record, but the future prospect of the team. There is just no move done by Carroll (and perhaps Schneider) in the last few years that makes me believe that a Superbowl is within reach, even with Geno playing top-15 QB level. Committing 50mill on safeties alone is an argument for a firing. Not only trading 2 firsts for adams, but doubling down is another.
I want to follow a team that both plays for a win now, and atleast seem to have plans for a future. You’re either going for the ring, or you’re not. Seattle seems undecided, confused. How can you sit and just accept scraping for a .500 record every season and thinking that is okay?
I am unsure of John Schneider’s degree of responsibility in the continued run of mediocrity. He gets the majority of credit for the good draft selections, but seems to get a free pass on the many mediocre to damned awful choices. This combined with horrible trades and woeful cap management has to raise a big question mark over him.
If however he has to defer to Pete on Selections, Trades & Cap then what is the point of him and wouldn’t he get more satisfaction from having a proper GM position. He doesn’t come across as someone who would be happy to be a figurehead which suggests he has a fair share of responsibility.
This led me to look at our 2023/Draft compared to the Rams, I think it’s fair to say our 2 firsts and 2 seconds draft slot far superior to the Rams 1 second. The Rams who were looking to add numbers to a severely depleted roster with cap issues.
Seahawks made 10 Picks from round 1-7 and these picks have contributed a combined 4147 Snaps
Rams made 14 Picks rounds 2-7 their picks have contributed 5501 snaps through the regular season.
Breaking this down into the first 5 round Picks:
Seahawks 8 Picks 3948 Snaps
Rams 8 Picks 4499 Snaps
(This includes Stetson Bennet who didn’t contribute)
This may be a somewhat crude measure but what does this tell us?
Pete doesn’t use Rookies fully ? John hasn’t Drafted as well as we think?
We didn’t utilise our top end picks as well as Rams?
I don’t know the answers but for me something is not adding up, although it looks like the Rams are doing something much better than us aside from out coaching us.
It’s a valid point.
Thing is we just don’t know where the blame lies. We don’t know how the conversations went with some of the free agent signings and trades. We also don’t know if the the poor performance and regression from those free agent signings is because of coaching and scheme or if they just aren’t that good.
Makes you wonder what the results would be if the Rams and Seahawks. Completely. Swapped coaching staffs but kept their current rosters. It would be really interesting to see the results.
Back on John though, I tend to lean on what we’ve heard about his reputation around the league. He’s very highly regarded. If he were let go, he’d have a new GM job with another team the next day. I’d like to see what he can do with the control of the team before we pull that plug.
Maybe he’s highly regarded because other GMs can read him like a book and can tell when he’ll overpay on a trade?
Sometimes i worry that John is too much of a nice guy.
I’m fine with John for a spell. I don’t think there’s any metric that anyone can cook up that says he’s a great gm short of “around the league,” and “he’d have a job the next day.” Neither nean much to me.
The contracts have been generally our of whack, structured with no real sense of time ( wagners last big one, Lockett now, diggs)
The drafts have been all over the place. Including the last two. Specifically in regards to what the team needs. Sidenote: I’m not a draft for needs or draft bpa all the time guy. I think like most team construction there’s a balance that’s needed.
If retaining John means we get a new identity at HC sooner than later I’m all about it.
I think if we fire him, GM jobs will suddenly become open and he’s hired very quickly.
In the end, do you do what your boss tells you to? He did his job and it’s up to Pete to do whatever with the players. How many have left and then looked amazing?
I had to text my Packer fan little brother to tell him “your welcome” for having Bo Melton.
Love stuff like this. Great breakdown.
Two things absolutely tiring though I like your writing Rob.
A) the 2019 playoff win was legit. They went vanilla once McCown came in and weren’t going to lose that game regardless. It’s not like Carson W was good at that point.
B) how on earth can one say that McVay and others “outcoach Pete” in losses while in wins we just had better talent? This comes up time after time and is weird.
The Seahawks beat McVay twice last year, both last gasp, one-score games, when McVay had no QB and no Aaron Donald.
That’s why we speak how we do about the Rams games. Because Seattle’s rare wins vs McVay are not like LA’s wins, which are far too frequent sadly.
As for the playoff game — the style of how they played doesn’t matter. They beat a bang average Philly team with a 40-year-old backup in charge. It is what it is.
I’m saying that if we beat Wentz 17-9 same game people would have found a way to complain. That game was never in doubt and they damn near beat the Packers the next week (up to 30% WP in the fourth).
Rob—though the game in LA was disappointing this year, it was very close. Were there no Seahawks injuries? Was
McVay coaching the reason Jason M pulled one wide instead of winning? Had it gone through would it have been Pete out coaching SM?
I have no idea why you are arguing against people describing a one-score win against a 40-year-old backup playing for an average team as unremarkable. Feels a bit like arguing for the sake of it.
I would say yes, McVay outcoached Seattle in those two games. He exploited our weaknesses, as did Shanahan. We couldn’t answer on either occasion. They absolutely destroyed us in Seattle, in a game where we were beyond abject. Again, not exactly sure why you’re picking up on these points. McVay has Carroll’s number. There’s years of evidence to back this up.
Say, I concede everything else… Well, we disagree on the playoff game, which I was very happy with, but I can see one thinking it is unimpressive.
But in the game in Los Angeles this year, the Seahawks were ahead most of the game and lost because of a missed field goal. Well, they did not lose strictly because of that but if the field goal was good, they would’ve won.
That field goal goes in which you have assumed or said that Coach Carroll outcoached coach McVay or would you have come up with another reason the Seahawks won
And if Matt Prater’s field goal was good yesterday, we would’ve lost to the Cardinals. If Jamal Adams doesn’t improbably head a football, we lose to the Browns. If the Eagles and Titans defend one drive, we lose both of those games.
You can pick through moments in all one-score games and play the ‘what if’ game. We lost.
And come on, we all watched that LA Rams game. In no way, shape or form did Carroll ‘out-coach’ McVay. We had the lead and threw it away, because of our total incompetence and with McVay finding the chinks in our defense so that they basically moved the ball at will after HT.
Did the Browns even argue that play? I think it’s pretty obvious that it was inadvertent. There’s no officiating crew in the league that would have called that a penalty. I realize we are getting into the weeds here.
Thank you for answering me. You think (not to put words in your mouth but the implication) that if JM makes that one that we get lucky to win despite being outcoached in the second half. What this leaves out is the first half when the Seahawks took the lead!
Also thank you for not including the Commanders or Lions games in the “could have gone either way” category. While one score games the Seahawks were never behind late in either of them nor in real consideration of losing.
Mcvay is 10-5 against the seahawks. Minus the year they won the superbowl I don’t recall a year where they objectively had more talent than us.
Even this year I heard a lot of talk about our “on paper,” talent which turned into a paper tiger.
A short tale about two franchises:
At the beginning of the year there was optimism that we would easily field a top offense and surely the defense wouldn’t be bad. Meanwhile in LA the rams were going to do their best but the lack of picks and death of talent would surely be their demise.
Offensive scoring rank:
Rams #8th
Seahawks #17th down seven spots from 2022
Defensive scoring rank:
Rams #17th
Seahawks #24th
Mcvay has a slightly more stout defense and a much better offense. I’m not sure if it’s more with less. I’m not sure if it’s identifying talent. Against us the Rams have been and appear to continue to be the better team.
Because McVay is twice the coach Carroll is…..imo of course.
Yep.
They had the 6th seed sown up and we couldn’t be bothered with a win and get in against the not very good stealers.
Hooray….we beat the cardinals by a point when it didn’t matter. Hope to see you all at the banner hanging ceremony and parade.
2023…..we almost had the 7th seed in 17 games. Fairly wordy for a banner but I’m going to try my best.
And if Jason Myers makes a field goal he should’ve made how different is it this year?
If If If
He didn’t
Just as Matt Prater missed two kicks yesterday which would’ve given us a losing record and a 1-5 record vs the NFC West
Touche. I am asking you to play this hypothetical with me though. Strictly in the game in Los Angeles if the field goal was good, would you have thought coach Pete outcoached coach McVay or would you have come up with another reason the Seahawks won?
The rams as identified by our own team “wanted it more.” Make a field goal. Sure. Then Mcvay is only 9-6 vs 10-5.
How about not relying on your scoring leader at that time in the season to make a game winner because he was the only reason we were in that game in the first place.
Maybe don’t get the doors blown off of you to start the season.
I, and a lot of people here and on fieldgulls, felt that game was lost with the bizarre counter play after the long pass to DK and the lousy clock management. This made the field goal too long and basically made it a coin flip.
I will concede you can put much of that on Pete.
Lots of hubbub over Geno’s game winning drives lately. The final numbers are in, though, and they aren’t spectacular.
— 13th in AY/A
— 17th in Passer Rating
— 20th in TD rate
— 23rd in On-Target Throw %
— 26th in Intended Air Yards/Attempt
He cleaned up the turnovers after the Baltimore debacle (11 TD / 2 INT over the last 7 games) but this was still a very lukewarm season as a whole. Sure the “clutch” drives are nice, but why were they necessary? Before the final drive yesterday, Geno was 11/23 for 122 yards, against arguably the worst defense in the league.
A lot is being made of our line play, but his pressure rate was only 2% higher than last year. The difference between the pressure Geno receives compared to say, Brock Purdy, is negligible — it’s a difference of 4 pressures for every 100 dropbacks. CJ Stroud was pressured only 15 fewer times this year (1 per game) and turned in a remarkable season.
Is he a horrible QB? No. Is he a great QB? Also no. He is what he is — a guy who turns in stretches of incredible play followed by stretches of unimaginable ineptitude, which balance out and land him somewhere in the middle of the pack. My question is, what is the point in paying $30M for a 33 year old QB next year when this team is not remotely near contention, when he isn’t elevating the play of the team, when he is almost certainly not playing out the 3rd year of that contract anyway?
Spot on
Great workthough Gritty.
I’d also add “game-winning drives” needs serious context.
If you don’t look a little deeper, it’s not unlike the relief pitcher that blows the save, but ends up getting a win because he’s the pitcher of record when the team stages a comeback to cover his behind.
Cleveland got points off of one of his interceptions.
Washington, Tennessee, Arizona comebacks? Against three of the worst defenses in the NFL. Nobody is questioning how they were unable to score more and have the game in hand?
Nobody is asking how did such a loaded offense was only able to manage 13 points yesterday against a depleted and untalented defense?
In the Detroit game, Geno took a seventeen yard sack at the most inopportune time, which gave the Lions enough time to tie the game with the field goal and set the stage for the game winning drive in OT.
And most of all, nobody is questioning the Geno bungling the end of game chances against Cincinnati, the Rams and Dallas. They win one, they’re in the playoffs. Two, they might be as high as the 5th seed.
Washington wasn’t a comeback. Never behind late. Same with Detroit. Those were games where the Seahawks were pretty much in control.
Maybe I’m the eternal optimist.
I do agree with you on the LA Rams game. Him calling that handoff was the most disappointed I was all season other than the Steelers game last week.
They weren’t comebacks, they were game-winning drives.
Yes I agree. I just like to give the Seahawks credit for the games they (mostly) control. Many don’t and lump games like Detroit and Commanders in with true comebacks like Eagles Titans Browns.
The Cleveland game is the best example.
— First 3 drives: Touchdown, Touchdown, Field Goal
— Next 7 drives: Punt, Punt, Interception, Punt, Interception, Punt, Punt
I’ll take flak for this and rightly so.
Resign Mone (lol), get another run stuffer also. Fire Hurtt. Dump safeties draft a linebacker. Dump Tayler have backup plan on edge who stops run. On offense implement zone blocking scheme and draft mobile quarterback as zone can have protection issues. Enjoy another season of suck.
My best friend who’s a patriots fan and nurse lol had a patient whose a seahawks fan. My friend told him I wanted Pete gone. The patient couldn’t believe it. His response was typical Pete apologist response:” Who are we gonna replace him with?” And of course they talk about SB 49 and the patient blamed the call on Bevell. #Pathetic
That’s when you tell those people “oh, I could have a preteenager since then.”
Rob, your work is amazing and I refer SDB to every serious football fan I know. I normally agree with every word you write but I honestly don’t know how you conclude by still referring to Carroll as a “great coach”.. He hasn’t been that for at least a decade (if he ever was) and for how long does he get a pass and continue to enjoy a seemingly unassailable reputation based on one Super Bowl since tarnished by years of mediocrity?
Couple thoughts…
1. I hate how much I despise this team (right now) and how much disdain I have for Carroll. I was one of the few that loved the hire and would go to battle defending him at that time. To now be in a situation where I candidly despise the man (mainly bc of his defenders) is just a gross feeling.
2. This is not a “young team.” I’m sick of hearing this from the fanbase. There are young players on the team – we have two potential blue chippers and a couple “good” players. The rest of the “core” that really drives wins and losses comes in the form of Geno, Wagner, Williams, Reed,, Lockett…a lot of heavy lifting by 30+ year olds in coming years. The Packers are a “young team” as in the young players are driving the bus. We have young players. Huge difference.
3. Seeing a lot of “well we were a couple plays from 11-6!” MFers…we were a couple plays away from 5-12 too (DET, TEN, PHI, ARZ, CLE). This tells me the team was probably truly an 8-9 win team with little to no evidence of “taking the next step.”
4. I am also seeing a real sentiment that we should be building around a 34 year old QB and a 73 year old head coach…what planet do these people live on? Their logic includes “wear and tear” which means that sitting an NFL Bench apparently stops the human aging process. Their logic also includes that the 73 year old is going to change his ways and take a new approach. I’m sick of it.
Matt-
I feel dang near every drop of this. Especially the young roster stance.
Take the oline which is young:
Cross…building block or okung?
Lewis…building block or walk?
Olu…..we hardly knew you
Bradford….incomplete
Lucas….building block or replacement?
WR:
DK….youngish but misused
Bobo…..fun name. Literally not important thus far. Could be swain, ursua, or anyone really
JSN….solid. hopefully more. So far not.
TE’s:
Old….at least the one on the roster
RB’s:
Actually a young area of talent
DLine:
Old….and old and not on contract. Everyone else thus far not a building block more JAG.
LB:
Old. And not in contract
Safety:
Old. Or so injured they are old in dog years
Corner:
Witherspoon…..young, great, and building block
All others incomplete. Maybe if you squint Tre Brown.
Qb:
Old. To Robs season long point riding the bench hasn’t prevented small injuries.
Good rundown. And depressing.
It was pretty much 80-20 or 85-15 happy with the hire, if only because Jim M was leaving. I took my wife out to dinner to celebrate. Sometimes you just know. We all just knew.
That was not the sentiment of local sports media. There was serious doubt over Carroll and a general disdain of the impropriety around him at USC.
Maybe fans felt that way, but almost none of the local media was supportive of him.
Right. I’m strictly talking about Seahawks fans.
You what kinda concerns me is defense stopping the running game.its been a problem most of the year.we acknowledged this situation needs to be modified.or fixed.but was it? Is it a personal problem? Or scheme?I am not sure perhaps both.
Why make a change now when the team will be sold in 2025. Makes more sense for the new ownership to bring in a new GM and coach.
Because we have no idea on the timeframe for a sale and the custodians of the club have a duty to run it properly, not waste time until whenever a sale happens
an improved staff and fan enthusiasm will bolster the value of the team.
A lot of let him stay 1 more year and bring back Russ comments hahahahaha some of you truly are broken. Life will go on even if we don’t have some crusty remnant from the Super Bowl team. A fun fact, before Pete came to Seattle and Russ was drafted they had no previous allegiance to this team.
Recycling Dan Quinn would be a classic Hawks move. My fandom is starving for something fresh an new.
At the end of yesterday’s live stream Rob prognosticated that he thinks Carroll won’t be the Seahawks HC by this time next week.
While I agree that’s where this is headed eventually, I’m not sure about that accelerated of a time frame. I believe that the decision has already been made (by Carroll), probably for a couple of weeks or at least since the Steelers loss.
But knowing what we know about Carroll and the organization as a whole, we won’t hear about it until they’re damn good n ready to announce it. I’m not sure we’ll hear anything until after the Super Bowl.
I also want to comment on a common sentiment being expressed a lot on twitter and such that Carroll can stay HC as long as he wants. I don’t understand that opinion. It runs completely counter to what Carroll supposedly stands for — always compete. I just don’t get the cultish devotion.
People can start interviewing assisting coaches that are still on playoff teams after the Divisional Round. So two weeks from now. Since many of the hot names will most likely be on playoff teams, that would seem to be the timeframe when coaching searches get heated up. If you wait until after the Suberbowl to release Carroll, you are potentially missing out on a lot of candidates. Determining whether to retain Pete or not does need to happen in the next week.
If you’re replying to me, as I said in my comment, the decision has been made. What I’m suggesting is we won’t hear about it for a while. That doesn’t mean they won’t be searching (hell, they probably already are). I suspect much of this process will take place out of the public eye. The only thing the public may learn about before the team makes a formal announcement is if a coaching prospect Seattle is interested in says something.
This isn’t the same situation as with Mora, who was broomed out of the clubhouse shortly after the season ended. He was a 1-year coach who had no leverage or position. Carroll is a Seahawks legend. They’ll be handling this differently.
Coach Carroll should be handled differently as a Seahawks Legend. Not getting axed like Rivera and Smith did today on “Black Monday”.
I still expect to hear within a week about if Coach Carroll is staying or going. If the Seahawks are doing coaching searches, wouldn’t that information leak out at some point. It would be akward to hear about coaching searches with Pete still in the building.
If he isn’t ready to leave, then he shouldn’t be treated any differently.
Cannot let the team fall apart anymore just to give Pete what he deserves.
Unless you mean having him get let go/fired/retired immediately in the next few days. That they don’t have to rush. Well-ran teams don’t do that immediately. They go through a process.
Bobby Wagner is so good he leads the team in tackles again…snicker.
What that tells you is once againg the soft flabby middle of the Hawks D-Line is like a jelly donut, crusty resistant on the outside but liquid for a filling. So many holes and cancers all over this team right now.
I can’t remember in all my years of being a Hawks fan that I feel the team is a rudderless ship. So hoping for news of change, that “ownership” actuall takes some positive action, whatever it may be.
It speaks to how long this defense has been broken, that the linebackers still collect tackles and people convince themselves it’s a good thing
Lots of tackles comes from lots of chances on the field. This defense could not get off the field, Seahawks led the NFL in plays faced on defense!
It’s like saying the CB with the most interceptions is the best CB.
You don’t throw at prime Revis, Ramsey, or Sherman. You just don’t.
You don’t run at Aaron Donald’s jersey
You don’t screen through a Watt
You don’t pull the face mask off that old Von Miller
And you don’t mess around with Wags
Rec for the Jim Croce reference. But sadly, the Rams and Niners have proven that you DO mess around with Wags.
The Dennis Erickson years were pretty damn rudderless
Thought I’d share this hilariously appropriate memory that came up on my Facebook today:
Jan 8th, 2010
“Pete Carroll? Seriously? Fuck you, Seahawks. Teams I root for that are doomed to suck forever: Mets? Check. Rangers? Check. Seahawks? Double check.”
He’s spending his interview talking up the future of this team.
“Think about how close we were.”
“We won’t make those mistakes again.”
“We’re a young team.”
“Geno executes in the clutch thanks to his skill and preparation.”
“We’re closer today than we were a year ago to being a Super Bowl team. This team has a future.”
“I plan to be coaching this team next year. I’m not worn out.”
I realize he’s hedging, but does anyone else see this as he’s not retiring without assistance?
Then they need to assist him
Also used to talk up Russ not going anywhere, right up until he went
I totally agree. I’m looking for reassurance as I spit out my coffee.
If you expected anything but a huge load of horsecrap, you’re going to be severely disappointed.
He did hedge his words again about coaching the Seahawks. It feels like he’s begging Jodi for his job in 2024. Not unlike the last couple years.
It’s just so tiring to hear the same ol same ol. No one can honestly look at this team and say they took legitimate steps forward towards a championship. They added some really nice talent, but with out a cohesive plan to utilize it, its all just pissing in the wind. I was hopeful maybe he’d step back and a guy like Quinn could come in, but it’s looking less likely.
I’m reading, “I’m not worn out,” as throwing his hat in the ring for the Chargers’ gig.
Close from making it to the playoffs on 7th spot, yes. Close of being a force in the NFC, far from. Much of it is bad coaching and that’s on Pete.
This MFer ain’t goin nowhere unless assisted. Listening to him is depressing. He’s even saying right now, “people are tired of me saying it”…(all the promises / assurances of a bright future) that its so close……
Now, I’m fucking mad after hearing him.
Pete’s legacy is waivering. He needs to remember the old adage: “it’s better to retire a bit early than too late. ” Pete: it’s time. Ride off into the sunset with a win, a positive vibe, and your health. VikingRiverCruises.com look nice.
My main concern is Pete’s ego and that he is so close to being the oldest coach in NFL history. If he saw this contract out he would have it. Maybe Belichick would beat him if he can hold onto his job for a year longer than Carroll would.
I wanted Pete gone years ago so please Seahawks…can we move on.
Putting aside Carroll, I think the defense is relatively close to being very good despite being horrendous. The Seahawks sacks/pressures were pretty good this year despite not having a marque double digit sack rusher. While Riq Woolen didn’t have the interception numbers from last year, his yards per target were actually lower and he had a quite solid 72.8 passer rating against him. Witherspoon’s was higher but still respectable.
The big problems are linebacker and safety, contributing to the bad tackles on first contact, bad rushing defense, and the pass defense leaking like a sieve. 82.5% of the targets to passes at Bobby Wagner were completions. 80.6% completions on Jamal Adams.
As linebacker and safety are not premium positions, this could go either way. Either Seattle can find good value at these positions and skyrocket the defense or they might end up overspending to fill these non-premium positions out of desperate need to have them fixed.
It kind of seems like an inflection point. Seahawks could make good moves and the defense could see a meteoric rise, or they could mess it up and doom themselves to a crap defense for the next 3-4 years.
The D-line must do better too. I don’t know if we can keep Williams, Jones didn’t have the impact we hoped. It’s gonna be tough to get an impact player via the draft when we should be after a QB and we don’t have a second round pic. Player quality aside, we need better scheming, and if the players don’t execute, it’s as much on them as it is on the coaches, so I’m not sure about that very good D. If Devon is out with injury we don’t have any top player in the D.
You can attribute a lot of the bad defense to the fact we ran a 2-4-5 or 3-3-5 defense most of the time and were relying on LBs and DBs to hold the edge in the run game. 250-265lbs speed rushers are not going to hold the edge against Trent Williams or whatever behemoths Baltimore has.
We got bullied because we’re way too small, and we dont even have a speed advantage, this is why our DBs were flying in diving at ankles. Changing scheme alone would help.
Also, everyone seems to forget Woolen is a speed guy coming off knee surgery.
I agree on Riq. The tackling problems are a real concern, but I think his coverage issues this year have been really exaggerated. I was looking last week on PFR, and his Yards/Target was something like 8th best among corners. The passer rating also puts him in the top 20 of CBs.
Unrelated, but looking at those stats, I found out that Ryan Neal allowed a perfect 158.3 passer rating against this year, to go with a 91% completion %. I mean I know Adams is bad, but I hope people can now at least understand why he was let go for nothing and signed for the vet minimum.
I agree on Riq. The tackling problems are a real concern, but I think his coverage issues this year have been really exaggerated. I was looking last week on PFR, and his Yards/Target was something like 8th best among corners. The passer rating also puts him in the top 20 of CBs.
Unrelated, but looking at those stats, I found out that Ryan Neal allowed a perfect 158.3 passer rating against this year, to go with a 91% completion %. I mean I know Adams is bad, but I hope people can now at least understand why he was let go for nothing and signed for the vet minimum.
I don’t know but doesn’t the “I plan to be coaching this team” somewhat sound similar to the “we have no intention of trading russ”?
This “I plan” phrase gives him a bit of room to still walk away and retire and avoid all the buzz before they are 100% sure and can confirm.
It is a hedge. But “I plan” is more a message for Jodi Allen than “I’m undecided on retirement.”
Pete’s denial is so frustrating! Plus he said Adams is coming back. Do something Jody, we beg of you!
It’s almost like he reads the articles and comments on this blog and is purposely trying to poke us in the eye.
I think about this piece often: https://seahawksdraftblog.com/change-is-probably-needed-but-it-isnt-coming
This was the first time I recall someone observing the night was falling over Pete’s era.
Regardless of whether Carroll stays or goes, I think that this team is a tear down and a full rebuild is necessary.
They are already over the cap. They will have to pay Geno 30M next year. They have a lot of mediocre free agents at TE and LB that they can’t afford to pay and need to be replaced. They have to clean out their Safties and they will need to be replaced. Their IOL is a mess and RT is a huge question mark if Lucas’ knee is a degenerative issue.
Anyone on here honestly believe that the Seahawks will be competitive in 2024?
That interview did not sound like someone who had met yet with the top brass on his future. At least I hope not. If he had already taken that meeting, he’s back next year.
Most compelling WC matchup: Rams at Lions
Sneaky good first round matchup: Browns at Texans
Most boring first round matchup: Eagles at Bucs
Most overmatched team: Packers cuz they’re the youngest team EVER to make the playoffs
2nd most overmatched team: stealers…..no TJ Watt and Mason Rudolph at QB. ‘Nuff said
Most likely to put their tail between their legs: Dolphins cuz the forecast is for -15 wind chill in KC
We talk a great deal about Pete getting “outcoached” by SM and KS. Do we ever talk about him outcoaching others? I could get into details if you all wish but he clearly outfoxed two young guns this year–Nick S and Kevin S–in wins vs the Eagles and Browns.
I don’t know if he should come back or not but I do think he’s still a good coach who just may be in the division with two top 5 coaches. And I don’t know about KS as top 5. He really chokes in big games (either we blame him for 28-3 or we give DQ credit for Ryan’s MVP season can’t be Kyle good Dan bad and many other examples).
He (PC) may be only slightly above average but he doesn’t suck. He hasn’t’ had a near mutiny like Sean in Buffalo. He hasn’t screwed over his star QB like Payton in Denver. We need to think about how bad it could be before we just wish for change for the sake of change.
If you think he out-foxed Stefanski’s Cleveland, in a game where they dominated after the Seahawks scored 17 points early in Q1 and then zero points until the dying seconds of the game, had more first downs, yards, third down conversions, rushing yards and a 37-23 edge in TOP, you aren’t based in reality. Not to mention Kevin Stefanski had PJ Walker at QB and no Nick Chubb. The Seahawks were really fortunate to win that game.
Sirianni, meanwhile, has instigated a total meltdown in Philly and it’s not beyond the realms of possibility he will be fired if they get pumped in the playoffs. Everyone is beating them. The Giants just blew them out.
You are really grasping here.
I dont think Pete has out coached anyone in years. To me out coached means utilizing timeouts, when to go for 4th downs, challenges.
PC is 11 and 16 in challenges since 2020. One was the PI that he got when the NFL allowed it and his was one of the only successful ones of the year.
He hasnt put his defense in a position to take away what a team wants to do, he hasnt had a good defense for a whole season in many many years. They don’t adapt very well and keep banging their heads against other teams until maybe a fortunate play happens. They dont get turnovers, tackle well, or change the offense to be successful.
So what you get is a .500 team. Thats not out coaching in any sense. He puts his players in a disadvantage to succeed and thats the main issues with the last 2 seasons.